Andrew Easton (00:01.042)
And then we'll get into that kinda thinking I guess of of how to how to start to to walk across all of the different pieces of that AI journey. So real simple. Forty minutes work will be fine, Bill.

Bill Bass (00:15.382)
No worries.

Andrew Easton (00:17.876)
All right, liked welcome everybody back for another episode of the Good Life EDU podcast. And what we try to do through this platform often is listen to what conversations and needs there are across our state here in Nebraska and and from our listenership even more broadly than that, and then reach out to national experts or folks that can provide the kind of insight that we're hearing for some of those pain points or challenges that we're working through. and so as best we can do in 40 minutes, right. I don't want to put too much pressure on our today's guests.

but we're gonna have Bill Bass join us for excuse me, but Bill Bass is joining us for a conversation about AI and thinking with regards to how districts might approach, should they choose to implement that to the teacher level or to the student level, that decision-making process that helps inform leadership as they sort of walk that road from

where they are now to where they might want to be with that technology. And so for those of you that are not familiar with Bill, he's an award-winning educator, author, and national leader in instructional technology and literacy, who serves as an innovation coordinator for Parkway School District in St. Louis. he's held leadership roles at both ISTE and also at the National Council of Teachers of English. Bill, welcome to the podcast. It's so great to connect with you around this topic.

Bill Bass (01:39.17)
Hey, thanks. I'm really glad to be here and thanks for inviting me. I think that, you know, as we as we navigate this new space of AI and, you know, our digital world, I th I think these are important conversations to just continue to have along the way.

Andrew Easton (01:55.113)
Yeah, and I hope that our conversation today can sort of model or at least maybe put together a blueprint for how district leaders at that level with within their system can have conversations about where to move with this work. Because for those that are interested enough to say, well, I'd like to be one of those people, you probably recognize that there is policy, that there is guidance, that there is this idea of, well, we need to have some syllabus language. And there's

the practices that are going on in the classroom, whether that be the what the teachers are doing or the teachers with the students. and so, gosh, as you start to think about that, it can become really overwhelming for where to start and and which leads first. so how do you s how would you start to help a district think about these pieces in in some sort of a sequential order perhaps, Bill.

Bill Bass (02:45.793)
Yeah, well and I think so so let me let me just say I think that you can really start there are multiple entry points here, right? You can start at the classroom level and and and and chances are regardless of the district that you're in, chances are you've already started at the classroom level, whether you know it or not. Because teachers have been they they're in it, you have kids in it, you may have, you know, like if you're a Google district, maybe Gemini is turned on for you right now. Maybe it's not. Maybe you've restricted it for kids. It's you know

It's hard to say, but chances are it's already happening at at the classroom level. It's just not organized happenings at the classroom level, right? And so you have to kind of I think w the first thing that I always try to encourage leaders to do is just like take that dipstick of your district and and get us get a pulse on it. What where are we thinking right now? Where where do people's

thoughts lie when it comes to not just the use of AI, but just their attitudes around AI. There are a lot of concerns that people have around AI. If you don't know what those concerns are, then you can't either address them or or mitigate them. You know, like those are the and those are really your two paths. You I I mean I guess you could ignore them as well, but that doesn't, you know, if s if people have concerns as a leader, you need to

be able to speak to those concerns, but if you don't even know what the concerns are, like that's the starting point, is just figuring out where where are we? You know, do we in our our technology department, do we have do we have AI turned on? Are we blocking things? At what level? At what age range are we blocking? Because, you know, like Chat GPT in my district, we have Chat GPT open up for high school, but we don't for middle and elementary because of the 13 year old age requirement.

And so, you know, like those are things to consider and those are things that we just have to pay attention to. There's lots of organizations out there that have like rubrics or guidance and and things like that to kind of help you know what questions to even ask. But I but I would say is that you know the the first your first step, regardless of you know what you what you personally feel as a leader in a district, you gotta find out where your people are. You gotta find out what your community thinks.

Bill Bass (05:06.913)
is it a and and chances are it's gonna w w be very wildly, you know, from one end of the spectrum to the other. But those are you need to know what the the biggest concerns are for your district and for the people in your district in order to address those. And and let me let me just say the the voice that is often unheard is the student voice in this. How do students feel about AI?

How do they, you know, are they, how are they using it? A lot of times, like all we think is, well, you know, we have to block it because otherwise students are cheating. Well, you know, AI didn't invent cheating. And we, you know, we we have to we have to recognize that students, when I do focus groups with students, students have are really insightful. A few of them and and they're brutally honest too, right? A few of them have said, Yeah, I used it to cheat. And

I realized that I didn't know anything and it w I so it only helped me on an assignment. It didn't help me when it came to a test, it didn't help me when it came to something else. And so I stopped and I and you know, he was he was very articulate about it. He was like, I use it very differently now. I use it to help me study. I use it to help me generate ideas, I use it to help me quiz for tests and and you know, like really

Really insightful information. You know, like kids are gonna tell us and and I really think we can we can learn a lot if we're willing to have that conversation with them.

Andrew Easton (06:39.016)
And I wanna highlight w in what you said there something that at least stands out to me is that the intentional effort to put together that focus group of students, and I would assume then from your answer here as well, the intentional effort to put together that focus group of community members, parents, ex so on. that the intentional effort to put together your and I heard it in your answer there, I think as well, like teachers and IT folks and and i the internal and then

Bill Bass (06:52.717)
Yeah. Yep.

Andrew Easton (07:03.4)
From across those conversations and whatever anecdotal evidence or or pieces you glean from that, that then allows you to build the foundation upon which to start to act. Is that f fair to like word it that way, I guess, or am I making too many connections here?

Bill Bass (07:19.413)
No, I I I think you're right. And I and I would say, you know, I would say take one step back from act and start planning. And, you know, the act of planning maybe, but you know, like you get into because you're just taking a cross section, right? You're you're getting painting with a very broad brush about, you know, these twelve students are representing all of our students. Well, no, they're not. You know, like they can't. And so what we try to do is we have tried to find multiple focus groups.

Andrew Easton (07:25.864)
Mm. Yeah.

Bill Bass (07:47.382)
At different grade levels in different areas. My district has 17,000 kids. We're spread out over 42 square miles. it is a very different community at the north end of our district from the south end of our district. And so we try to, whenever we do those student focus groups, we try to bring kids and parents and teachers and you know all those things from all areas of our district in order to get a broader representation.

Now you can do this with surveys too. You can do this with you know, you can I what I would say is I tend to not listen as much to, you know, like the school board meeting community statements because they don't necessarily they're not representative, right? They're the people who are passionate about this thing. What we want is, yes, we want the passionate people, but we also want the people who are

Who are at least entertaining the idea. So we want we want all voices in here. And the only way we can get all voices is to look for kids and parents and teachers that are, you know, like, let's go. We need to do this. Or wait, let's let's not. And, you know, kind of figure out where that common ground is, because nobody's really gonna be happy in those circumstances unless we do exactly what they want.

And so it really is trying to figure out, you know, like what are what's our tolerance right now? And I think that's what the dipstick shows me is what's our tolerance right now for change? For what's our capacity to actually provide professional development for teachers to use AI meaningfully in their district or in their classrooms with kids? What's our what's our student policies? What are the what are our state policies as as I look around the the country?

Each state has very different things that they care about. And so we really have to, you know, like you have to know your community in order to be able to make decisions for and with that community, specifically when it comes to something that can be as charged as and and and fear and thought provoking, ch but charged as artificial intelligence in you know in twenty twenty six when we when we don't know.

Bill Bass (10:09.545)
a lot about what's going to happen or what is happening right now because we only hear little snippets.

Andrew Easton (10:16.979)
Okay, so we take those focus groups and from that I love that that word of we're planning then.

According to and so this is where I'm inserting my word here and so push back if this is not it, we're applying that planning then to the context within which it is gonna be then adopted and that that is inclusive of state and that is inclusive of local community and the school and and students and I I love that you added in capacity for for professional learning. Maybe your year's planned already, right? At this point as we sit here in in August, September.

Bill Bass (10:29.463)
Yeah.

Andrew Easton (10:50.667)
you know, but but how how might you get started and what would it look like to sort of add the next implementation cycle next year that will intensify that and what pieces could you bring along between now and then to ensure that that happens? Those kind of things, right? Like are all on the table there.

Bill Bass (11:06.209)
Yeah, well absolutely. And I think, you know, to t to that to that point about PD, you know, even if you can't fully train everybody or offer PD for everyone, that doesn't mean you don't do it. Right? That doesn't mean and I I heard this just the other day. You know, kids w we as adults, we always have next year. Kids only have one year in third grade, one year in fourth grade, one year in fifth grade. Like this is their experience. And so

For us to put it off because it's not comfortable for us, or because we don't have the time plan for PD, or because we don't have all our policies and guidance in place, or there's the time is now. I mean, here we are. It is twenty twenty six and AI is firmly embedded into our world. That doesn't mean that we have to like go all in, but what it does mean is kids have to have an experience because they're they only have so many years with us.

We always have that next year. And I thought that was a really interesting way to to think about that when it comes to readiness in of a school district. You know, like those are adult decisions, not kid decisions. And I think that that when we when it comes to AI, yes, we have to protect them, but we and and and support and all that. But we also have to recognize that we only have them for a brief period of time.

in you know, in order to support them. And I would much rather support them in schools, even if they make mistakes. I would much rather have them make mistakes where I am so I can support them rather than make mistakes when they're on their own because that's when it actually probably matters. The consequences are higher out there.

Andrew Easton (12:48.227)
Wow. Yeah, I that

resonates with me so much as a parent. I have a sophomore and a seventh grader. And they are entering year four for them of being aware of AI's capacity to support the work that they're doing. And I've caught both of them doing things that I think sort of robbed them of the academic experience on some level as well. And I wanna applaud the district that they're in because they've done quite a bit in terms of just system support and moving the com very conversation we're talking about today forward.

And I check in with both my kiddos often and it hasn't quite yet permeated to where they feel like they're having open and honest conversations at the classroom level about acceptable use or ways to be even safeguarded, right, and and cautious. though I'm sure those exist and and that that work's growing and and hopefully we point an emphasis for them in this academic year. So it it's multifaceted right and and takes a lot of a lot of steps to get to that point. And you mess mentioned some of those right there as far as that policy and guidance piece and

Bill Bass (13:31.885)
Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Easton (13:48.464)
something that I found as I've tried to go out and support a little bit has been just a lack of clarity, I think, on some level of the the that these those two terms, AI guidance, AI policy, maybe are a bit of a Venn diagram, but aren't the same thing. So for the person who maybe can't discern between those yet because they haven't really thought about it deeply enough, can you kind of speak to that the difference there between those and but how they're also informing one another?

Bill Bass (14:16.577)
Yeah, yeah. I think so I think that the, you know, your your policy, your policies are usually the way that I look at policies are like they're they're the top level pieces, right? They're the thing that everything has to be in in let's just say compliance with that policy, right? It's a thing, but that policy can't be so specific that it is like that it's not evergreen, right? AI is changing so fast.

And if when you start putting like specific parameters into a policy, that that gets that gets hard to address later. You you're not future forward when you're thinking in that way. So that policy sh should be something that is a little more general and provides an overview of the approach that a district is gonna take when it comes to

in this case AI, right? one one thing that I'm a big fan of though, and it's actually what my district is doing is rather than having a specific AI policy is to have an emerging technologies policy. And change the, you know, change the mindset and change the thought process around, okay, we don't need, you know, when when Google came out and we didn't we didn't create Google policies.

Right. We didn't create VR policies. We didn't we don't have policies around pencils, right? This is a tool that is out there in the world. And so but an emerging technologies policy I think can help us and encompasses AI, right? but it it gives us something to stand on because that's you know, a policy is meant to protect the district.

and the employees of the district and the students who are a part of the district, like that's part of what policies do. And so an emerging technologies policy doesn't stifle innovation when it comes to AI. Because even as we've, you know, we've been talking for what, 15 minutes or so, in the time that we've been talking, things have changed with AI. It's not, it's not like it's the static thing that suddenly

Bill Bass (16:34.661)
we're going to you know we're we're going to figure it out and we have arrived. Th this is not a destination. And so that's why I think that the idea of rather than an AI policy, make that emerging technologies policy that encompasses AI, lives above your guidelines, but is but your guidelines are informed by that policy.

So it's kind of this trickle down where, okay, so what do we what do we value as a district? Your policy should show what you value. And so if if we value, in this case, let's say emerging technologies, if we value innovation and emerging technologies and the experiences that we, you know, the hope for the experiences that these technologies might be able to give kids for technologies that we don't even know about yet, right? Those are

that is that is meant to provide guidance but not restrictions you know like this is we need to i mean an ai policy emerging technology we need to keep kids safe like that's that should be in your policy right and it's it's the guidance now the how is down below in the guidance right but the the in the policy it's we need kids keep kids safe we need to be sure that they have

opportunities to enhance their educational sh experiences through the use of technology doesn't tell you how, the how is in the guidance, right? And so that's where I think the difference between the policy and that guidance is, is the policy informs, tells what, you know, broad strokes, what you're doing. The guidance is to like this is how this is going to work.

And so with guidance, you know, one of the other pieces that I think strategically for school leaders, if you have your policy, as you're developing your guidance, if you have something like a profile of a graduate already created in your district, if you already have something that is like this is what we want our kids to be when they leave us, profile of graduate, call it whatever you want, right? It doesn't actually matter. But aligning your guidance to those things.

Bill Bass (18:51.371)
goes a long way because if we want kids to be effective communicators, well how does AI fit into that? If we want kids to be in, you know, like so like with is with ISTE, the their standards now are very much like competencies, right? It's like this is what we want our kids to be. So if we want them to be creative communicators or computational thinkers, how does AI fit into that?

And and so everything that is part of your part of your profile of a graduate can if you you can align those things through your guidance to your profile of a graduate, that goes a long way with your community and it can really make headway because you've already agreed to these things over here in your profile of a graduate. Now, how does AI support kids in in reaching that goal? I think that is, you know, a one of things

Anyone who is going down this path, if you have pork of a graduate work that is happening or has happened, align yourself to that pork of a graduate in any technology initiative, whether it's AI or something else, this is what we're going for. This is how we're going to get there. And this is where in our case AI fits in.

Andrew Easton (20:05.949)
Wow, I love so much of what you shared there. And I'm gonna see if I can kind of just underline some of those and what one, the urgency piece, that you consistent with what you said earlier, like on behalf of students who are here and in our classrooms today and have present needs and and really in my the case of my own kiddos, four years experience at this point, that that could love would really benefit from the supportive conversation that we could potentially provide. and the the

The urgency that we can't wait around on the technology to stop for us to keep up. and so then with that, what you also shared from the top was that there are multiple entry points. And I think your answer there just provided two examples of that, right? That yes, you can start with that policy piece high level. And I I love that thinking too of well, yeah, let's keep kids as you said safe. what does that mean? Well

Safe is what the policy means. But the guidance might go so far as to say, well, we have Google, and because we have Gemini that has additional protections, and that's within our workspace and within our system, like that's our safe place. And the second that Google stops providing those protections, we're gonna change it because our policy says we're gonna make sure it's safe. So that there's your guidance step, but I I I so appreciate too coming from that other s side of it, which is to say your entry point can also be what do we want our students to leave our our our system having learned.

Bill Bass (21:04.973)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Easton (21:23.779)
in terms of competencies and skills, and then maybe starting to build out the space between by acknowledging where our policies are and those aims and developing the guidance around that is something that I think is just really sharp. And I when I get a chance to chat with folks across the country because we get a chance to learn from other states, the ones that I see the that are the furthest in terms of thinking through this work, right? And I'm not trying to promote

Tons of AI or or no AI. I'm I'm just saying the folks that have been the most thoughtful, it seems are in states where that's sort of instantiated statewide that North Carolina has a portrait of a graduate piece that's in place. I know a lot of schools in New Jersey have that in in place. I know that Utah like has has and so some of those examples we've shared on a site that we've created, our supported site, which I'll put in show notes. So that if you're going, gosh, what Bill's talking about here sounds amazing.

we want to put together sort of a menu of resources. We can go and look where and we're not endorsing any one of those, but saying here's some people out doing that and and just learn from them. And it can be just because those are state level documents, doesn't mean you can't do that at a district level as well. To the your point there, Bill. Like what do you value? And now we're back to your where we started, our focus groups and community and making sure that it aligns with that. So I'm loving all this, Bill. Thanks for well, I I I went on a run there. What would you interject?

Bill Bass (22:41.421)
Now, well, I mean, I I think that those are those are those are the things, right? Those are the as we as we as we continue to think about what does this what does this look like? Because we know it's gonna change. Like it's like I said, it's changed since we've been talking, right? There's no there's no there's no doubt that advances aren't being they're being made every day. we have it becomes more powerful every day. And the thing that

The thing that I would add to what you said is, you know, my job isn't to convince people to use AI. Like that's not what I'm I'm not I don't even want to do that, right? I'm not trying to do that. What I'm trying to suggest is okay, we have a lot, there's a lot of AI stuff going on. I'm a huge I use it all the time. I use it every day for tons of stuff. But that doesn't mean that everybody needs to, and that doesn't mean that everybody should.

What it means though is if we are going to serve our kids well in our classrooms, they need to have an experience around AI. Now that doesn't mean that they have to use it. That means that you can enter into a conversation, a whole class conversation, small group conversation, have them do research around the the, you know, it could be the misconceptions of AI, it could be the dangers of AI, it could be the, you know, the the

the future of AI. I mean, there's so many things that we could talk about, but in schools and classrooms, a lot of times when we don't know, it's all it's like we're paralyzed by fear that we're either gonna say something wrong and you know we're gonna get a phone call from somebody and and chances are we will. We're going to anyway. So it might as well be about AI. and but if we we're so worried that we're we're not the expert and we don't know

And here's the thing, right now no one's the expert. There's there's not a single person. Anyone who says they're an AI expert is is delusional. Like they're hallucinating at this point because they have they haven't, you know, they may have been an expert in this thing at this time, but it's gonna change. And so having kids like thinking about it and engaging with the thought process of utilizing AI, that's where I think we

Bill Bass (25:06.283)
we can make some actual inroads because you know it's it's not it's not about it's not about making sure everybody is using the tool. It's making sure that everybody has had the opportunity to thoughtfully think through the the implications of using or not using AI because there's implications to both.

And when we think about, you know, like I think about my own kids. You mentioned your kids. I have two college graduates. They just graduated last year. I have twins. And my son uses AI every day, almost all day. My daughter does not and doesn't care. And she's happy to not care. But it's not because it's a choice that she's making. It's not because she heard me talk or somebody else talk. She's had experiences around how AI.

can impact and it just doesn't fit into her life right now. Will it in the future? It probably will. It's just not there right now. So I really think, you know, when we're thinking holistically about kids and we're thinking about their use of technology and we're the ports of her graduate work, when we're thinking about those things, we really do have to consider what is their future going to look like. One of the things that we that I I heard recently, you know, Missouri is a very rural area.

rural state, much like you know, Nebraska, but Iowa like we're in the Midwest. I get it. and so we you know I I was listening to a a speaker. He was the president of the Farmers Association of Missouri. And one of the things that he said is when he anytime he hires somebody, one of the questions he asks is, you know, how do you use AI? And if they say they don't, then the interview's over.

And now that's pretty that's pretty abrupt, right? But what he's thinking about is the future of his industry. When I think about education, I think about the future of our industry. And the future of our industries broadly are going to include AI in some capacity. And so, you know, for the rest of my career, I could dutifully ignore the fact that AI exists.

Bill Bass (27:26.471)
And Mike there's not a kid in my district that can do that. And so, you know, and I I say that to classroom teachers and you know, it's not that I I I don't want to convince you. I just want to be sure that you understand that your kids your kids need you to engage with them. And it's not about being right or wrong, it's not about being the expert. And sometimes that's hard.

Andrew Easton (27:52.569)
It it can be challenging because you want, especially when you're a educator in front of a classroom of students, to have all the answers. And and so I appreciate what you share there that there aren't really and those the questions will change. The so you know, it's you're not gonna arrive at that place. And so I I'm with you that I I can imagine then as a a principal leading your staff through a conversation about this or

a classroom teacher leading your your students wanting to to be of that disposition, but really the importance of just creating space to say, how are we using this tool? and then how do we f ethically feel about that, right? and and how effective is it for the aims that we're after. And and I think that those things sort of apply and some of that's from Am Amanda Bicker staff for sure. Like I, you know, I've learned from another number of folks, but I I I think it can be that simple.

Right. It can it can be as simple as saying, you know, how do we feel as a staff about anyone in this room using AI to grade papers and and to to give feedback like that? And you might have some like you said earlier, right? With those folks, you have extremes at both ends, but but I think that guidance gets formed out of the conversation and then you say, Okay, here's what we're gonna be about, because had you

Bill Bass (29:01.111)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Easton (29:06.684)
Have you thought about these shortcomings or these strengths? Or maybe we do this formatively but not for summative. And but we have to be transparent in sharing out that we've done this. And and but you can't get to that depth of thinking and and I think overt agreement on some of those principles. if you if you don't wade into the waters of that space. And what's so cool is it can be like unique to your building and your staff or what they all right? Like which again gets back to context. So

Bill Bass (29:22.509)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Easton (29:35.48)
I'm so with you on that, Bill. I think these these are are tough things to want to wade into because of the lack of clarity, but I I I don't think they're many less urgent or important.

Bill Bass (29:44.994)
Yeah, well, and and and I think, you know, going going all the way back, you know, those focus groups, that dipstick on your community, understanding what where those values lie is critical to just being able to not just craft guidance. You know, like you can craft guidance. You can have AI craft AI guidance for you if you want to, right? But and there's plenty of guidance around on the internet. Like it's it's really easy to find, actually.

But being thoughtful about the needs of your community and you know and define community broadly, you know, and and don't ignore don't ignore that student voice. Understand your teachers, understand your families, and but also educate them, right? And and that y tell tell the story. One of the things, you know, like we talk a lot right now about the way that

you know, what kids should or should not be doing with technology and and AI gets brought up and kind of, you know, it's all convalescing together. And I think that's I think that's true. But like in schools, if we can tell our story, if we can tell the story of how AI is being used, the safeguards that we have around A's AI, so that our parents don't think it's just a free for all. You know, they kids can come and everybody's cheating and we're doing this and that and

What are the what are the safeguards? How are we talking to kids about the use of AI? How are we talking to our parents? How do we how do we do that? And how do we tell our story? Because otherwise it's a narrative that somebody else is creating for us. And I think that you know the the the biggest benefit that we can do when it comes to just our systems is educate our systems, define, right? Define our our work.

But also educate our systems on our reality, not the reality that they may see in other regions, in on in in news, in you know, any of the sources, social media, any of the sources that they're getting their information. How does it look in you mentioned context? How does it look in our context? How does it look when we come together and make decisions? And and here's the thing the decision can't be, you know, that we're

Bill Bass (32:06.849)
dutifully ignoring it. Like we can't we we can't do that. We also can't say that we're gonna ban it because I don't know. I've at I've had people ask me, you know, can we just turn off AI in the district? I'm like, I don't even know how I would do that. Because there's there's so many components that that come into play. We've been using AI for years and had no idea, right? With just autocomplete in Gmail or whatever. You know, like it's it's not new. it's just at the forefront now and

Because of that forefront, we do have to be thoughtful. And I think as leaders, we have to be really intentional. We have to be really transparent. But we also have to tell that story because the story of what's happening in classrooms is really amazing. Just like to listen to teachers talk about what they're having their kids do, with AI or without AI. Kids are doing amazing things right now. And I think that

You know, we really have to recognize and understand and give the give our people credit, including our kids. The you guys are you guys are amazing just in the in the work you're doing, the thoughtfulness that you're doing it with. So I really think that there's there's a lot there, you know, but going back to those focus groups, I really think you have to know your community. As a leader, you have to know your community, you have to understand it, and that's how you make decisions and navigate it.

Andrew Easton (33:32.795)
I it makes me think of something I've heard our digital learning director from our state say often is that the device that a student has issued to them from their school for most students will be the safest environment with which they'll be able to be on a digital device, period. And that

something reassuring about that to to whatever degree, right? If if you're thinking about this space. and you know, then if we go past that I I love too what you were saying there about the responsibility to educate. And I think education educating folks comes down to oftentimes to common language and clarity and being able to have that consistent. and again a a product of all the things we've talked about to this point. but then and then kind of ongoing and continuing to do that education piece.

and so can maybe as we start to work a little bit to a close, because half hour always goes so fast in these conversations, but I love it, Bill. This is really great stuff. how how has that looked in your home district, right? Or maybe examples that you've seen elsewhere where yes, we started this conversation and we've got the syllabus out to everyone, right? But like what where how does it continue to evolve over time, I guess? just some practical examples.

Bill Bass (34:49.185)
Well, and I think that, you know, you it your guidance and I think that's going back to the policy and guidance, right? Those two s separating those two out, your guidance should be a living document. Right? It should be something that changes based on the the ne the changing needs, the changing tools and the changing attitudes of your of your district, right? the tolerance as it as it were. and that's why I think that that that is good. You mentioned, you know, having common language and having

you know, s common expectations so that regardless of where where a kid is in a school district or what classroom they may be in, they're not they're not getting mixed messages. They're not the there's an understanding. Now doesn't mean everybody likes it, right? But there's an understanding of this is our approach. And so, you know, I think I think there has to be like a cyclical communications plan.

So this is where we are. This is our guidance. it has to be reviewed and it has to c be be communicated over and over and over again. You know, like maybe on a yearly basis, maybe on, you know, just a regular cadence because it's it is the one thing, you know, like when we think about schools, schools are reluctant to change. AI is forcing us to change, right? And it's changing whether we like it or not. And I think that I think that we have to continue to come back to that.

You know, we we tell the story and then we tell it again and then we tell it again. And making sure that story is consistent, that we get people on board. getting people on board is hard, you know. I mean, let's be clear. but there are and and philosophically, you know, that's why I think tying these things kind of that portrait of a graduate, or you know, something that's a guiding document for your or guiding principles for your district really can go a long way.

in getting that buy in and getting that support. But you know, every year you're getting new staff. Every changes, you know, you're you we have to continue to talk about and develop our people and and create opportunities and space for it to be okay to try things. Right. And and I think that's where I think that's part of where AI can really support us.

Bill Bass (37:14.081)
is like let's think differently about this. Just because we've done it like this does not mean we have to. and so I think, you know, when w I try to do focus groups on at least a yearly basis. Now I don't do it, you know, like when we were starting, we hit hard, right? But but now that you know like we're I d it's kind of like a temperature check. Just over the course of time. I w I check with our leaders. I check with our with our

with our community. We have a we have a superintendent's forum that comes together to talk about different things. I check with them. Just we have we have to make sure that we're constantly understanding and listening to to everybody's needs. Again, that doesn't mean everybody's gonna agree they're not, but but we do have to at least listen and and be able to make decisions

and not just let things happen to us. Right. And I think that's the that's the difference between leading through this work and dutifully, you know, just ignoring this work and letting it go. You right? And just leave people to their own devices, things can happen. So we we and tea and I'm telling you, teachers, parents, students, they want guidance. You know, like what do we do with this? I we don't know. And so we need to have

People who are willing to stand up and say, Let me help you.

Andrew Easton (38:42.886)
That there's a pretty natural segue there to the last thing that I was gonna bring up and a little bit of a pivot, but not actually in the way that you you drew that through line. well, one, we're excited that you're gonna be able to join us for our ESU statewide event coming up in September, where as a part of that, your session is going to be dedicated to putting on your national council of

Bill Bass (38:50.037)
All right.

Andrew Easton (39:09.916)
for teachers of English hat and speaking to the ELA AI framework and and some of the supports that that organization released recently. And so just as like a a close for to today's conversation, would you let us know about that resource for folks that will not maybe be able to be there in September or maybe as a a primer to that as well, so that we can make sure that everyone's aware that that because it it is a

Bill Bass (39:11.853)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Easton (39:37.743)
I've gotten a chance to go through it. That's such a a r a great lens for looking at the that ELA teacher's work.

Bill Bass (39:45.752)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I was fortunate enough to have been involved in N C T E when I was a classroom. I was a high school English teacher. as as I transitioned out, I've always stayed, you know, once once you are a teacher, you're always a teacher, right? And so I've stayed connected to that organization and I had the opportunity to help develop this rubric. Or and it's not a rubric, it's a it's a guidance, right? And it's there's there's a few topics that are a part of it and

giving some giving kind of some clarity, kind of the things that we're talking about. And it's guidance at the national level, right? And so that that guidance that came from it it stands on the NCTE's principles of you know reading and writing and providing kids opportunities and recognizing that there are some there are some things that are rough about AI and specifically in EA ELA right now.

And there's a lot of angst that goes along with that. And so it gives some examples, it gives a glossary, you know, there's there's there's some pieces there. What I like about it though is the next step in this is they are creating they're having teacher created artifacts that are things for each one of these that are aligned to each one of the principles that are inside of the the guidance and that is coming out in November.

And what it's going to do is it's going to be a database of what does this actually look like? Right. And so we all have it, we all have examples of just like what it looks like in our context. But what does it look like more broadly? And this is what I really think the work that NCTE is doing right now that I'm going to try to highlight during my session. I think that's really where the power is going to be, is it's going to take all of this stuff that is that is out there and try to make it actionable.

and th that teachers can incorporate like in some cases tomorrow because it's it's a it's a you know like it's it's it's a s classroom strategy or it's a it's a graphic that they use in their classroom that that resonates with kids. I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be fabulous. I'm really excited about it. I'm really excited to share the

Bill Bass (42:03.861)
the work that you know N C T has done and that I've been fortunate enough to be a part of.

Andrew Easton (42:09.659)
excited for the opportunity to learn from you and to connect and I

find candidly myself at times discouraged or a little overwhelmed by this conversation broadly about AI and and where we're at with things. And then, you know, have the good fortune to connect with folks like yourself and and others who are thoughtful and leading leading great work and just committed day in and day out to helping us navigate this season. And it's yeah, both inspiring and reassuring and all the things. So, Bill, thank you for your time today. and in September.

And ongoing in support of as we try to thoughtfully move through yeah, this disruptive technology in the era that we're we find ourselves in.

Bill Bass (42:54.369)
Yeah. Well, hey, listen, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. and I'm really looking forward to September as well.

Andrew Easton (42:59.949)
Yeah. Okay. So last thing, if folks are listening in, how can they follow you, connect with things that you share, et cetera, so that yeah, beyond today's episode they can learn from you.

Bill Bass (43:09.387)
Yeah, I'm pretty I'm actually pretty easy to find. there's not a lot of Bill Basses. Actually there are a lot of Bill Basses. The the one that is often confused because he's in education too is there's a forensic psychologist that wrote the body farm and all these like he digs up that's not me. I'm not that guy. but truly, you know, like I'm I'm lots of places, but LinkedIn is the easiest place to connect with me. William Bass, I'm I really

William Bass, N C T E Education, Missouri, Parkway, ISD. I mean, like there's a lot of different terms that you can put in and you'll find me pretty quick.

Andrew Easton (43:44.109)
great. Well, man of money talents, but forensic farm is pro or whatever there's no Well Bill, thanks for your time and we are grateful to have you on the show.

Bill Bass (43:48.461)
That is not one of them.

Bill Bass (43:56.13)
Yeah you bet, thanks so much.