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Welcome to the GoodLife EDU podcast presented by

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the Nebraska ESU Coordinating Council. I'm your host,

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Andrew Easton. Thanks for joining us as we

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discuss the latest in digital learning across Nebraska

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and around the country.

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Alright. I'd like to welcome everybody back for

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another episode of the Good Life EDU podcast.

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And welcoming back today, Katie Novak, to the

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podcast who, I think when I went back

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in the show notes, I saw that, it

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was 2022,

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the last we had the opportunity to speak.

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Oh my goodness. Sounds like forever ago. Yes.

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A lot has changed,

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in almost 2 years since then, and,

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excited that we get a chance today to

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revisit UDL,

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and talk about all the things that are

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kind of evolving with that conversation,

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nationally and and really internationally,

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and highlight some of the great work going

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on in Nebraska as well and some opportunities

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to connect around this conversation. For folks that

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don't know Katie, she's an author, educator,

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consultant who's focused on multi tiered systems of

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support. So really, that that message and that

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work lands right in the heart of the

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things that are going on in our state.

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And so really grateful, Katie, for your time

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today. Thanks for coming back to the GoodLife

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EDU. Thank you so much for having me.

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Yeah. And so catch us up. Right? Like,

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for those that aren't familiar with UDL, maybe

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we start there and give a a very

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you know, go listen to the previous episode

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or check out some more of Katie's resources,

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for a deeper dive. But maybe to set

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the table for today's conversation, what are we

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talking about?

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So what I would love to talk about

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today is just how the framework of universal

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design for learning is evolving,

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but also the importance of really creating systems

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that better support our educators

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to be able to meet the needs of

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all students. Because once people understand

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what universal design for learning is,

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there are additional barriers sometimes that are put

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in place by a school, by a district,

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by departments of education

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that actually create

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hurdles to being able to meet the needs

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of all students in a way that is

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authentic and meaningful. So we'll talk a little

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bit about UDL and the importance of building

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a multi tiered system with UDL as the

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foundation

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to better support everyone in a district.

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Fantastic. And for folks who are not familiar

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with universal design for learning,

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just a brief snapshot of where that comes

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from and what we're talking about.

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Yeah. So the the most simple thing is

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when a teacher is able to universally design

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learning,

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the lesson is designed in a way that

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any student would be able to access and

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benefit from it. So universal means everyone.

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Obviously, designed for learning

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means that we're designing learning for everyone. And

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there's this misconception,

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I think, that some teachers say, well, my

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class is really successful already. And so my

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next question would be, is your class truly

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inclusive? Is it really representing

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the population of kids that we serve in

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this community.

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So we can predict that an inclusive class

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would have students who have a need for

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acceleration,

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other students who might have a need for

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more academic support,

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and then there's lots of ranges

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of needs

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academically, behaviorally, socially, and emotionally.

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So, essentially, it's thinking about what really is

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it that all kids have to know and

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do, and what are the high probability barriers

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that would prevent a student from

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really learning at high levels, from making growth

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from where they are to where they are

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going, and then providing lots of options and

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choices within a classroom

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so that students have different pathways they can

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choose for how they learn, what materials they

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use, and how they share what they're learning

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focused on really specific standards,

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which not only allows for

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many more kids to be successful, but it

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also helps to bring a lot of that

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really important future ready work where we want

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kids to be critical thinkers. We want them

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to be able to collaborate. We want them

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to be problem solvers because

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we're competing with robots that are really good

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at passively receiving information and spitting that information

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back out.

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And how we're gonna set ourselves apart

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is that

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really human component of learning, having agency, being

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independent.

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And so we really have to change the

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way that our schools and classrooms are designed

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moving from really teacher centered instruction

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to student centered instruction where kids have those

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options and choices. So universal design

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is a theoretical framework that helps teachers to

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think about what flexibility is gonna be necessary

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to support and challenge students while also putting

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them in the driver's seat of beginning to

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make decisions about their own learning.

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And in that response, I heard specifically what,

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I would identify as being those UDL principles

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Yep. Where you're talking about,

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things ranging from how they learn to the

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materials to the way that they show what

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they know and things related to that. And

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so for folks that maybe aren't familiar with

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those principles and some of the guidelines that

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follow,

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CAS framework

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that comes, with those UDL guidelines has recently

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updated. So,

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maybe a little bit deeper dive to some

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of those nuances as you understand them.

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Yeah. So I'm gonna start with an analogy

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just because if you're hearing about UDL for

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the first time, that explanation may seem so

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overwhelming. How on earth are we meant to

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challenge and support all students? What do you

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mean providing all these options and choices?

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So one of the the first ways that

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I described UDL, and this is about 15

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years ago, was just thinking about a dinner

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party where if you're gonna have a a

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really big inclusive dinner party, you have 30,

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40 guests coming,

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you would not serve a one size fits

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all casserole. Nobody would do it. We wouldn't

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re serve a plate where we say, you

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know, you get a big slice of this

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meaty cheesy lasagna,

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and you get a piece of garlic bread,

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and everyone's gonna drink a beer. Like, we

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simply wouldn't do that. Why? Because you would

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say, well, I mean, people have very different

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dietary needs, and some people are vegan and

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some people are gluten sensitive and some people

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don't drink alcohol, and we know that.

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And so we

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instead say, what's really the goal of the

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party? Like, maybe we could do something kind

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of fun, like an Italian theme party. But

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we say, well, what is really our goal?

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And then what are all the different options

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and choices that we could provide?

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Cocreating

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a party so that it works well for

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everyone. So I might say, I make an

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amazing lasagna. I'll also, like, you know, put

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together a salad bar,

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and, I will have, you know, some beer

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and some wine and some soda. But then

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also, like, why don't we potluck this? So

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this is what I'm gonna have. Everybody's welcome

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to bring their own dish. And then when

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you come to this party,

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you then look at this buffet, and you're

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like, okay. Well, you know, this is what

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I wanna eat, and I need an extra

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napkin because I'm pretty messy. And, oh, I'd

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like a to go cup because I wanna

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go outside and whatever it happens to be.

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And we don't look at that as being

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way too much work. It's just the way

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that we approach planning is embracing all of

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these differences

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and saying we know that one size fits

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all is not gonna work.

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And so the same is true in a

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classroom. So I was an English teacher, and

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so a really traditional way to have an

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English class would be we're all gonna read

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a hard copy of the same book, and

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then we're all gonna write an essay about

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that book. And that's kind of like your

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one size fits all dinner party. But when

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we look at the 3 UDL principles, we

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have to provide multiple means of engagement, multiple

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means of representation, and multiple means of action

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and expression.

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It really helps us to recognize the barriers

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of one size fits all design.

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So I might say, for example, if I,

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first of all, have everyone

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read the same exact book,

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I mean,

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sticking together through a

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300 page novel, that's a lot of time

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and commitment. I am not opposed to having

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a shared reading experience, but it doesn't have

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to be 300 pages long. So I might

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say, you know what? The goal

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of reading this book and writing an essay

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is really understanding how characters interact over the

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course of a text. So why don't we

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have a shared reading experience around a really

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short passage?

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And then I can encourage all of my

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learners to choose another text where they feel

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like the characters

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connect to them in some way. They have

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the same interest. They

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have the same identity. And then we're gonna

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compare and contrast those texts, and I'm gonna

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allow students to either work alone or work

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together. And in that, I'm providing them with

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these different pathways

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for choose something authentic, choose something interesting.

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You decide how you're gonna work towards this

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goal. But when I have this shared reading,

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I can't just hand it out in hard

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copy because I'm excluding multilingual learners. I'm excluding

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kids with visual impairment. I'm excluding a kid

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who just simply forgot the glasses that day

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and or doesn't decode at grade level. So

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I might say,

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here's the text. It's digital. You can have

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a printed copy. You can have your partner

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read it out loud. You can access it

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digitally to have it read aloud to you,

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look up the words you don't know, maybe

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have it translated in language 1 first before

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you read the English version.

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And then the goal is not

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writing because that's not a writing standard. The

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standard the goal is to understand how characters

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interact. So it doesn't have to be an

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essay.

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If it was a writing standard, it would

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be different. But so I then say, alright.

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First, we're all gonna have this shared reading

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experience of the short story, then you're going

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to choose another text to compare and contrast,

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can work alone or with partners. You can

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choose how you're gonna access that text. You

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can have a choice of how you're gonna

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share what you learned about characterization.

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That might be an essay. It might be

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a video. It might be a class presentation.

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It could be something incredibly creative,

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like, you know, multimedia

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poster or something like that. And in it,

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I can say to students just like my

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dinner party.

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You know what? I've come up with these

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options, but why don't you potluck some ideas

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here? Is there any other way that we

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could learn about these characters?

270
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Is there any other ideas for how you're

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gonna share what you've learned given this rubric

272
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and the success criteria is not negotiable? This

273
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is, like, the the point, but let's talk

274
00:10:04,315 --> 00:10:05,375
about this together.

275
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And so it's not like the responsibility is

276
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all on me, and I stand by as

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a designer. There is a much better chance

278
00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:14,519
of every student being supported,

279
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every student being challenged,

280
00:10:16,725 --> 00:10:19,144
and also every student having lots of opportunities

281
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to be more self aware, to be more

282
00:10:21,684 --> 00:10:23,764
critical about their thinking, to say, I feel

283
00:10:23,764 --> 00:10:25,285
like this is what I'm gonna choose today

284
00:10:25,285 --> 00:10:27,100
and why. And because I'm not up in

285
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:28,940
front of the classroom the whole time, I'm

286
00:10:28,940 --> 00:10:31,899
enjoying the proverbial party because I'm walking around.

287
00:10:31,899 --> 00:10:33,899
I'm checking in with every learner every day.

288
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I'm providing feedback. I'm redirecting.

289
00:10:35,985 --> 00:10:37,904
I'm saying, oh, you've gotta try that salad

290
00:10:37,904 --> 00:10:39,664
over there. Try that dressing. You know, it's

291
00:10:39,664 --> 00:10:40,164
amazing.

292
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And it it leads to a very different

293
00:10:42,945 --> 00:10:45,509
type of classroom where we're shifting over to

294
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student led where a teacher is much more

295
00:10:47,909 --> 00:10:48,569
a facilitator.

296
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:51,909
So the UDL principles have been the same

297
00:10:51,909 --> 00:10:52,649
for decades.

298
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The UDL guidelines

299
00:10:54,475 --> 00:10:55,215
are updated

300
00:10:55,674 --> 00:10:58,715
periodically based on the best research and evidence

301
00:10:58,715 --> 00:11:00,095
base available in education.

302
00:11:00,730 --> 00:11:02,990
And given what we're trying to do now

303
00:11:03,049 --> 00:11:04,110
competing with robots,

304
00:11:04,649 --> 00:11:06,190
UDL guidelines 2.0

305
00:11:07,289 --> 00:11:09,690
was very focused on teachers providing all of

306
00:11:09,690 --> 00:11:10,429
those options.

307
00:11:11,034 --> 00:11:13,835
There's a big shift to now working with

308
00:11:13,835 --> 00:11:17,674
students to codesign those options, and there's also

309
00:11:17,674 --> 00:11:20,430
a much bigger emphasis on the importance of

310
00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:22,050
building learner agency,

311
00:11:22,509 --> 00:11:24,750
helping learners understand what they need to do

312
00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,070
to create strategies that will allow them to

313
00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:27,730
be successful,

314
00:11:28,264 --> 00:11:30,745
really putting learners in charge of understanding what

315
00:11:30,745 --> 00:11:32,585
they need to do in terms of emotional

316
00:11:32,585 --> 00:11:33,085
regulation.

317
00:11:33,945 --> 00:11:35,965
And this all comes together

318
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,679
to make this big shift to say that

319
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:39,740
we're not only

320
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:41,019
teaching content

321
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:41,980
anymore.

322
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,714
We are really helping kids develop as learners

323
00:11:45,774 --> 00:11:46,835
because the content

324
00:11:47,294 --> 00:11:48,575
is out there if you know where to

325
00:11:48,575 --> 00:11:51,470
find it. And throughout your response there,

326
00:11:52,250 --> 00:11:54,589
the return to scaffolding scaffolding scaffolding

327
00:11:55,129 --> 00:11:57,129
because in any learner group, you're gonna have

328
00:11:57,129 --> 00:11:58,945
a few folks that take that opportunity and

329
00:11:58,945 --> 00:12:00,464
run with it because whether it's in their

330
00:12:00,464 --> 00:12:03,024
previous experience or their own creativity, they're able

331
00:12:03,024 --> 00:12:05,504
to lean into those opportunities for choice and

332
00:12:05,504 --> 00:12:07,540
space. But where there might be a reluctant

333
00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:09,779
learner or one that doesn't have the I

334
00:12:09,779 --> 00:12:11,620
mean, there's a myriad of reasons why perhaps

335
00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:15,024
that, because as a former classroom practitioner myself,

336
00:12:15,024 --> 00:12:16,324
there are times where you go,

337
00:12:16,625 --> 00:12:18,384
oh, well, if I gave this though, a

338
00:12:18,384 --> 00:12:20,144
third of my students would just look at

339
00:12:20,144 --> 00:12:21,824
me dumbfounded and not know which one to

340
00:12:21,824 --> 00:12:22,324
select

341
00:12:22,704 --> 00:12:23,204
or,

342
00:12:23,569 --> 00:12:25,129
you know, drag their feet a little bit

343
00:12:25,129 --> 00:12:27,070
about stepping into those spaces because the responsibility

344
00:12:27,529 --> 00:12:29,449
of driving your own learning is is more

345
00:12:29,449 --> 00:12:29,949
work.

346
00:12:30,544 --> 00:12:32,304
And so I think, you know, the scaffolding

347
00:12:32,304 --> 00:12:33,825
pieces that you're referring to there are really

348
00:12:33,825 --> 00:12:34,325
important.

349
00:12:34,865 --> 00:12:37,105
And how do so how else would you

350
00:12:37,105 --> 00:12:37,605
recommend

351
00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:40,740
or some other strategies maybe to encourage students

352
00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:42,259
to be able to bring their own dish

353
00:12:42,259 --> 00:12:43,000
to the potluck?

354
00:12:43,779 --> 00:12:44,519
Okay. So

355
00:12:44,955 --> 00:12:46,475
teachers will tell me all the time, there

356
00:12:46,475 --> 00:12:48,075
are some students who simply just won't make

357
00:12:48,075 --> 00:12:49,674
choices, and I'm like, just follow the kids

358
00:12:49,674 --> 00:12:50,414
to the cafeteria.

359
00:12:50,955 --> 00:12:52,794
They're all amazing at making choices. Right? They

360
00:12:52,794 --> 00:12:53,934
go down to the cafeteria.

361
00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:56,509
They know, nope. I do not want cheese

362
00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:59,230
on that slice of pizza and extra chocolate

363
00:12:59,230 --> 00:13:01,904
milk and, oh, the Doritos over. So I'm

364
00:13:01,904 --> 00:13:04,325
like, they are really good at making decisions

365
00:13:04,464 --> 00:13:06,084
when they know what they want.

366
00:13:06,625 --> 00:13:08,884
But the truth is is if I say,

367
00:13:09,179 --> 00:13:10,940
here's 3 different ways that you could take

368
00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:13,440
notes. I'm gonna give a really short presentation,

369
00:13:13,659 --> 00:13:14,399
take notes.

370
00:13:15,179 --> 00:13:17,100
Kids have never tried any of them. Right?

371
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:18,799
And so I think in some ways,

372
00:13:19,245 --> 00:13:22,205
it's not that it's, like, you know, easy

373
00:13:22,205 --> 00:13:24,705
or hard. It's like, I just don't know.

374
00:13:24,925 --> 00:13:26,205
And so one of the things that I

375
00:13:26,205 --> 00:13:27,870
would do with my students all the time

376
00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:29,089
is I would always talk

377
00:13:29,629 --> 00:13:30,210
about Goldilocks

378
00:13:30,909 --> 00:13:31,970
and how Goldilocks

379
00:13:32,429 --> 00:13:34,589
tried the 3 chairs and then the 3

380
00:13:34,589 --> 00:13:36,509
porridges, and then she said this one is

381
00:13:36,509 --> 00:13:39,095
just right. And it doesn't mean that her

382
00:13:39,095 --> 00:13:40,855
decisions would be the same if she went

383
00:13:40,855 --> 00:13:42,315
back and it was freezing cold

384
00:13:42,774 --> 00:13:44,134
or if she went back and she had

385
00:13:44,134 --> 00:13:47,059
a bad back. Right? Because context is really

386
00:13:47,059 --> 00:13:49,940
important. So, you know, Goldilocks could go back

387
00:13:49,940 --> 00:13:51,779
in the winter and and say, oh, that's

388
00:13:51,779 --> 00:13:53,539
not too hot now. It's perfect because I'm

389
00:13:53,539 --> 00:13:55,554
freezing. And so I would say, you know,

390
00:13:55,554 --> 00:13:58,215
we're gonna do a really low stakes

391
00:13:58,754 --> 00:14:01,394
trying all of these. It will not be

392
00:14:01,394 --> 00:14:03,529
marked. It will not impact your grade, but

393
00:14:03,529 --> 00:14:06,089
I want you to understand what the option

394
00:14:06,089 --> 00:14:06,589
is.

395
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:08,490
I want you to see exemplars. I want

396
00:14:08,490 --> 00:14:10,649
you to get feedback, and then reflect on,

397
00:14:10,649 --> 00:14:12,009
like, when that might work for you, when

398
00:14:12,009 --> 00:14:13,230
it doesn't work for you.

399
00:14:13,565 --> 00:14:15,024
So with note taking specifically,

400
00:14:15,404 --> 00:14:17,325
I might say something like we're gonna work

401
00:14:17,325 --> 00:14:19,404
on t notes, you know, 2 column notes,

402
00:14:19,404 --> 00:14:21,884
t notes, sometimes called Cornell notes. We're all

403
00:14:21,884 --> 00:14:24,289
gonna do that for 2 weeks.

404
00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:27,070
And there's still flexibility within it. You could

405
00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:28,990
do it in hard copy, in a binder.

406
00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:30,830
You certainly could do, like, a an online

407
00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:31,809
digital notebook.

408
00:14:32,475 --> 00:14:35,355
But I would really focus on teaching the

409
00:14:35,355 --> 00:14:37,674
strategy, why we use it, how we use

410
00:14:37,674 --> 00:14:39,674
it to study. I would allow students to

411
00:14:39,674 --> 00:14:42,100
use it on, you know, open note formative

412
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,240
assessments, having them compare it with each other,

413
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,879
pull up exemplars all the time. And then

414
00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:48,879
after a couple of weeks, just thinking about,

415
00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:49,620
like, why

416
00:14:50,014 --> 00:14:52,095
would this strategy be something that's effective? And

417
00:14:52,095 --> 00:14:54,414
how would you maybe change the strategy, and

418
00:14:54,414 --> 00:14:55,934
how would that be better for you? Then

419
00:14:55,934 --> 00:14:57,615
we would maybe move to now let's do

420
00:14:57,615 --> 00:14:59,220
sketch notes for a couple of weeks. And

421
00:14:59,220 --> 00:15:00,899
then we might move to okay. You know,

422
00:15:00,899 --> 00:15:03,179
now let's do more of, like, a a

423
00:15:03,179 --> 00:15:05,139
a protocol for note taking. Like, you know,

424
00:15:05,139 --> 00:15:07,399
3 things I learned, 2 questions I had,

425
00:15:07,625 --> 00:15:09,144
you know, one thing I wanna know more

426
00:15:09,144 --> 00:15:11,784
about, something like that. And then after I've

427
00:15:11,784 --> 00:15:13,804
spent a lot of time building those routines,

428
00:15:14,184 --> 00:15:15,884
then I could say to students,

429
00:15:16,449 --> 00:15:18,629
okay. So I'm gonna be doing a presentation.

430
00:15:19,169 --> 00:15:20,929
I need you to take notes. Here's the

431
00:15:20,929 --> 00:15:22,769
3 driving questions that you're gonna try to

432
00:15:22,769 --> 00:15:24,504
answer. I want you to think about what

433
00:15:24,504 --> 00:15:26,445
is the best way for you to

434
00:15:27,625 --> 00:15:30,044
create a visual artifact of what you're learning.

435
00:15:30,345 --> 00:15:33,259
And I've presented 3 different ways, and maybe

436
00:15:33,259 --> 00:15:35,180
you want to, like, fold some of those

437
00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:37,180
ways together where it's, like, 2 column sketch

438
00:15:37,180 --> 00:15:39,740
notes. Or maybe it's, you know, oh, well,

439
00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:40,779
can I do it that way? Can I

440
00:15:40,779 --> 00:15:42,625
do it that way? And I feel that

441
00:15:42,625 --> 00:15:45,024
sometimes we don't give enough time for that

442
00:15:45,024 --> 00:15:45,524
exploration

443
00:15:46,785 --> 00:15:49,585
for students to figure out what actually is

444
00:15:49,585 --> 00:15:51,950
going to work for them. And in my

445
00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:54,350
own practice, and I was a classroom practitioner

446
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:56,990
for 13 years, I I didn't ever have

447
00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:59,330
students who couldn't make choices

448
00:16:00,355 --> 00:16:02,595
much of the time. Now there are some

449
00:16:02,595 --> 00:16:05,074
days that just based on variability, the kid's

450
00:16:05,074 --> 00:16:07,014
like, I'm not choosing anything today.

451
00:16:07,629 --> 00:16:10,110
And we all deserve a bad day, so

452
00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:12,350
it's okay. But, you know, over time, I

453
00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:15,309
think that students would really begin to understand

454
00:16:15,309 --> 00:16:16,610
that there was, like, a preference.

455
00:16:17,375 --> 00:16:19,535
And I think another key point there is

456
00:16:19,535 --> 00:16:20,035
that

457
00:16:20,415 --> 00:16:22,995
if you're saying there's something that is easy,

458
00:16:23,455 --> 00:16:25,154
it wasn't designed well.

459
00:16:25,580 --> 00:16:27,840
There shouldn't be an easy.

460
00:16:28,379 --> 00:16:30,220
So if I'm saying you have to answer

461
00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:32,379
these three questions in a way that you're

462
00:16:32,379 --> 00:16:34,300
able to then come back and cite evidence

463
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:35,040
from them,

464
00:16:35,485 --> 00:16:38,365
there's no real easy thing. Some students just

465
00:16:38,365 --> 00:16:40,285
might really prefer and have a strength with,

466
00:16:40,285 --> 00:16:41,585
like, you know, just visual

467
00:16:42,125 --> 00:16:44,205
memory, and they're, you know, much better at

468
00:16:44,205 --> 00:16:46,320
kind of creating something that is artistic, and

469
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,080
they'll remember it that way. You have other

470
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,440
kids who might need to use voice to

471
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,120
text in their 2 column notes because their

472
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,340
typing is too slow.

473
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:53,700
And, ultimately,

474
00:16:54,684 --> 00:16:56,684
none of those are easy because they all

475
00:16:56,684 --> 00:16:58,445
reach the same goal. And I I think

476
00:16:58,445 --> 00:16:59,584
there's a lot of bias

477
00:16:59,964 --> 00:17:01,024
of what we consider

478
00:17:01,820 --> 00:17:04,539
to be easy when it's actually efficient. But

479
00:17:04,539 --> 00:17:06,380
as adults, we use these efficiencies all the

480
00:17:06,380 --> 00:17:06,880
time.

481
00:17:07,740 --> 00:17:07,980
Yeah.

482
00:17:08,539 --> 00:17:09,900
Couple of things to build off of that.

483
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:11,515
I get so excited just learning about all

484
00:17:11,595 --> 00:17:13,115
the different strategies and things that you're leveraging

485
00:17:13,115 --> 00:17:13,615
there

486
00:17:14,154 --> 00:17:16,795
to make these opportunities for access available. And

487
00:17:16,795 --> 00:17:18,859
it made me think first of all, one

488
00:17:18,859 --> 00:17:21,099
idea was focus on the ideals principle of

489
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:21,599
representation.

490
00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:23,740
It was always interesting to me to see

491
00:17:23,740 --> 00:17:25,259
the ways in which some kiddos would say,

492
00:17:25,259 --> 00:17:26,720
I'm actually gonna watch the video,

493
00:17:27,325 --> 00:17:28,144
take a,

494
00:17:28,525 --> 00:17:30,785
written copy of that same piece of information,

495
00:17:30,845 --> 00:17:32,684
and take my own notes on it, even

496
00:17:32,684 --> 00:17:34,305
though that was a separate choice,

497
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:36,700
and then get close enough to the direct

498
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:37,680
instruction station,

499
00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:39,980
to be able to listen in there, which

500
00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:41,019
all three of those were meant to be

501
00:17:41,019 --> 00:17:43,214
different options. But when a student says something

502
00:17:43,214 --> 00:17:44,815
to the effect of, is it okay if

503
00:17:44,815 --> 00:17:46,974
I or can I, the opportunity to say

504
00:17:46,974 --> 00:17:47,474
yes,

505
00:17:47,855 --> 00:17:49,535
and then maybe highlight that for everybody else

506
00:17:49,535 --> 00:17:51,054
so that everyone understands the degree to which

507
00:17:51,054 --> 00:17:51,420
you can

508
00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:56,170
make your own dish, and should be the

509
00:17:56,170 --> 00:17:56,196
one who's intentionally designing that to kind of

510
00:17:56,196 --> 00:17:56,380
play off of what you're saying there would

511
00:17:56,380 --> 00:17:58,460
be would be something worth pointing out? And

512
00:17:58,460 --> 00:18:00,545
and I also heard you specifically use the

513
00:18:00,545 --> 00:18:02,644
word preferences there. And can you

514
00:18:02,945 --> 00:18:05,045
denote the difference between that and learning styles?

515
00:18:05,184 --> 00:18:05,684
Because,

516
00:18:06,144 --> 00:18:08,384
an example I've given in the past, is

517
00:18:08,384 --> 00:18:10,009
to say, like, with my own daughter, for

518
00:18:10,009 --> 00:18:11,529
example, if you ask where does she work

519
00:18:11,529 --> 00:18:12,029
best,

520
00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:13,930
if she's working on math, it's at the

521
00:18:13,930 --> 00:18:15,549
table, and she's reading this on the couch.

522
00:18:16,090 --> 00:18:18,809
And context, to your earlier point, certainly matters.

523
00:18:18,809 --> 00:18:20,875
And so I just wanna, like, kinda press

524
00:18:20,875 --> 00:18:22,875
into some of those key points from your

525
00:18:22,875 --> 00:18:24,555
previous comment there and and a little more

526
00:18:24,555 --> 00:18:26,394
space to to denote the difference between learner

527
00:18:26,394 --> 00:18:27,855
preferences and learning styles.

528
00:18:28,779 --> 00:18:30,539
Yeah. So some of it is a little

529
00:18:30,539 --> 00:18:32,160
bit of semantics. So,

530
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:34,860
there is no such thing as learning styles

531
00:18:34,860 --> 00:18:37,125
that has been, you know, very much debunked

532
00:18:37,125 --> 00:18:38,884
in the research, but some of it is

533
00:18:38,884 --> 00:18:40,724
just the way that we talked about learning

534
00:18:40,724 --> 00:18:41,224
styles.

535
00:18:41,525 --> 00:18:44,339
So the idea of learning styles before we

536
00:18:44,419 --> 00:18:46,279
had really good, like, BMRI

537
00:18:46,579 --> 00:18:48,740
images before we knew a ton about the

538
00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:52,099
brain, there was this belief that we were

539
00:18:52,099 --> 00:18:54,039
wired for different types of learning,

540
00:18:54,605 --> 00:18:57,085
that some people were visual learners and some

541
00:18:57,085 --> 00:18:59,484
people were auditory learners, and you'll hear adults

542
00:18:59,484 --> 00:19:01,005
say that all the time. I'm a visual

543
00:19:01,005 --> 00:19:04,880
learner. And once they got into people's brains,

544
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:06,720
they realized that that was not

545
00:19:07,099 --> 00:19:09,795
true, that we're not wired for one type

546
00:19:09,795 --> 00:19:11,955
of learning, that people who are even blind

547
00:19:11,955 --> 00:19:14,755
or visually impaired will use their visual cortex

548
00:19:14,755 --> 00:19:17,315
of their brain in different ways, that it

549
00:19:17,315 --> 00:19:19,759
comes down to, yes, we have cognitive strengths

550
00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:21,220
and, yes, we have cognitive preferences,

551
00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:23,920
but the idea of a style led to

552
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,539
this really fixed mindset

553
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,339
that I only can learn this way.

554
00:19:28,684 --> 00:19:31,005
And so just taking that word style out

555
00:19:31,005 --> 00:19:34,125
and saying, you know, generally, I I have

556
00:19:34,125 --> 00:19:36,684
a a pretty good visual memory. I actually

557
00:19:36,684 --> 00:19:38,970
still like to take notes by hand. I

558
00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:41,049
remember where they are on a page. I

559
00:19:41,049 --> 00:19:43,210
have, like, a pretty good, like, oh, wait.

560
00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:44,750
Where was I? I can see it.

561
00:19:45,305 --> 00:19:48,105
But there are some tasks of which simply

562
00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:49,164
you just can't

563
00:19:50,025 --> 00:19:53,085
learn in that way because of the context.

564
00:19:53,144 --> 00:19:55,679
Right? And so, you know, the example is,

565
00:19:55,679 --> 00:19:56,660
you know, skiing.

566
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,880
As you could say, I'm an auditory learner,

567
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,400
and you could say, I'm a visual learner,

568
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,919
and I wanna see somebody ski or I

569
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:03,255
want someone to explain to me how to

570
00:20:03,255 --> 00:20:05,335
ski. But, ultimately, I gotta put the skis

571
00:20:05,335 --> 00:20:07,035
on and ski, which is kinesthetic.

572
00:20:07,414 --> 00:20:09,974
And so the idea that there is only

573
00:20:09,974 --> 00:20:10,795
one style,

574
00:20:11,159 --> 00:20:12,919
I think a lot of the research is

575
00:20:12,919 --> 00:20:16,359
simply that it it closed people off to

576
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,839
trying other paths. But then there was a

577
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:20,380
lot of research that was done

578
00:20:21,024 --> 00:20:23,904
that showed that people's styles were actually much

579
00:20:23,904 --> 00:20:24,724
less effective

580
00:20:25,345 --> 00:20:26,484
than, like, a multimodal

581
00:20:26,865 --> 00:20:29,904
learning and having lots of different opportunities. And

582
00:20:29,904 --> 00:20:32,049
so they did this really interesting study at

583
00:20:32,049 --> 00:20:33,730
a college where they asked students, what's your

584
00:20:33,730 --> 00:20:35,569
learning style? And then they said, prepare for

585
00:20:35,569 --> 00:20:37,029
the exam in that style

586
00:20:37,409 --> 00:20:37,909
versus

587
00:20:38,674 --> 00:20:41,234
prepare for the exam by attending these extra

588
00:20:41,234 --> 00:20:43,634
help sessions, by doing these done problems, by

589
00:20:43,634 --> 00:20:45,954
looking at these other copies of exams, and

590
00:20:45,954 --> 00:20:47,654
students did much better

591
00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:51,279
when they used evidence based test taking

592
00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:52,880
preparation strategies

593
00:20:53,259 --> 00:20:55,180
as opposed to just, I'll just listen to

594
00:20:55,180 --> 00:20:57,194
all of the lectures again. It just wasn't

595
00:20:57,194 --> 00:20:57,934
as effective.

596
00:20:58,315 --> 00:20:59,694
And so the idea

597
00:21:00,075 --> 00:21:02,075
is that as much as we have these

598
00:21:02,075 --> 00:21:04,394
preferences and we have these needs and certainly

599
00:21:04,394 --> 00:21:05,855
people have cognitive strengths,

600
00:21:06,490 --> 00:21:08,890
The key to moving away from the language

601
00:21:08,890 --> 00:21:10,910
on learning styles is just don't get stuck

602
00:21:11,049 --> 00:21:13,210
and just say, you know what? I feel

603
00:21:13,210 --> 00:21:15,130
like when I'm reading, the best place for

604
00:21:15,130 --> 00:21:16,714
me is on a couch, but sometimes the

605
00:21:16,714 --> 00:21:17,694
couch isn't available.

606
00:21:18,075 --> 00:21:20,234
And so when I'm in the college library

607
00:21:20,234 --> 00:21:21,755
and all the seats in the couches are

608
00:21:21,755 --> 00:21:22,255
taken,

609
00:21:22,714 --> 00:21:24,875
I have to be open to figure out

610
00:21:24,875 --> 00:21:27,480
what else might work for me because I

611
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,279
just don't have that option right now. And

612
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:32,200
that's really what we're trying to do is

613
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,539
just recognize the cognitive flexibility

614
00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:36,924
that every time we make a choice,

615
00:21:37,465 --> 00:21:39,305
and this is Mike Anderson's work. I love

616
00:21:39,305 --> 00:21:40,045
Mike Anderson.

617
00:21:40,345 --> 00:21:42,025
His work is to say whenever we make

618
00:21:42,025 --> 00:21:44,684
a choice, we're balancing three things. We're balancing

619
00:21:45,369 --> 00:21:46,269
what we want,

620
00:21:46,730 --> 00:21:48,830
what we need, and then logistically

621
00:21:49,289 --> 00:21:50,109
what is available.

622
00:21:50,650 --> 00:21:52,650
So if you say to me, hey, Kate.

623
00:21:52,650 --> 00:21:54,350
Let let's go out for coffee.

624
00:21:55,095 --> 00:21:57,355
I'm like, okay. I would love,

625
00:21:57,654 --> 00:21:59,115
an iced latte right now.

626
00:22:00,454 --> 00:22:03,015
But, oh, it's a very bad decision because

627
00:22:03,015 --> 00:22:04,990
it's already 12 30 while we're recording this,

628
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:06,190
and that's a little late for me to

629
00:22:06,190 --> 00:22:08,029
be caffeinated. So I want it to you

630
00:22:08,029 --> 00:22:10,109
know what? I'm gonna get a decaf iced

631
00:22:10,109 --> 00:22:12,509
coffee, and I want it at this really

632
00:22:12,509 --> 00:22:14,565
amazing little cafe in Australia.

633
00:22:15,345 --> 00:22:16,325
And you're like,

634
00:22:17,265 --> 00:22:18,005
we're Nebraska?

635
00:22:18,625 --> 00:22:20,964
So you're not getting it from Australia,

636
00:22:21,289 --> 00:22:22,730
But I'm sure we can find you a

637
00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:26,109
decaf iced coffee somewhere else. Right? And so

638
00:22:26,809 --> 00:22:28,329
a lot of teachers will say, I would

639
00:22:28,329 --> 00:22:29,929
love to give students an option to do

640
00:22:29,929 --> 00:22:31,884
this video, but we don't have animation software.

641
00:22:31,884 --> 00:22:34,065
Then it's not an option. Right? Like, logistically,

642
00:22:34,285 --> 00:22:35,484
if you don't have it, you don't have

643
00:22:35,484 --> 00:22:35,984
it.

644
00:22:36,285 --> 00:22:38,660
So I would always say to students, like,

645
00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:41,700
I love your idea. We have 15 minutes.

646
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:43,700
What you're proposing is going to take 4

647
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:45,160
hours. We don't have 4 hours.

648
00:22:45,539 --> 00:22:47,904
So let's look at what you want, what

649
00:22:47,904 --> 00:22:49,265
you know you need to do to be

650
00:22:49,265 --> 00:22:51,505
successful, and then what is available, and let's

651
00:22:51,505 --> 00:22:53,605
make the most responsible decision we can

652
00:22:53,904 --> 00:22:55,744
knowing that if it is not a great

653
00:22:55,744 --> 00:22:56,244
decision,

654
00:22:56,769 --> 00:22:58,930
I'm gonna check-in with you formatively, and and

655
00:22:58,930 --> 00:23:01,089
I'll say, like, how is this working? Are

656
00:23:01,089 --> 00:23:02,849
you moving in the right direction? Remind me

657
00:23:02,849 --> 00:23:04,849
of the goal for this project. Right? Do

658
00:23:04,849 --> 00:23:05,910
you need more support?

659
00:23:06,444 --> 00:23:08,924
And we can always change our minds, but

660
00:23:08,924 --> 00:23:10,384
you can't sit there and do nothing.

661
00:23:11,164 --> 00:23:12,765
Well, I I wanna point out in what

662
00:23:12,765 --> 00:23:14,765
you're sharing there too what the learner must

663
00:23:14,765 --> 00:23:15,265
feel

664
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,860
emotionally from the opportunity that you're describing, right,

665
00:23:18,860 --> 00:23:21,140
to, recognize him as an individual enough to

666
00:23:21,140 --> 00:23:23,934
give him this sense of autonomy and the

667
00:23:24,095 --> 00:23:26,654
flexibility to make these decisions and to construct

668
00:23:26,654 --> 00:23:28,654
for them, which is really a teacher clarity

669
00:23:28,654 --> 00:23:31,015
piece, these three questions that should drive Yep.

670
00:23:31,215 --> 00:23:32,835
Your leaning into one of those.

671
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,779
And I I think with those

672
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,299
types of,

673
00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:38,919
enhanced communication around the things that we're doing

674
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:39,579
intentionality,

675
00:23:40,355 --> 00:23:42,355
obviously, then, you know, that's that's just good

676
00:23:42,355 --> 00:23:45,154
practice in addition to the design of this

677
00:23:45,154 --> 00:23:47,555
experience itself, which to play off of your

678
00:23:47,555 --> 00:23:48,455
earlier point,

679
00:23:48,819 --> 00:23:50,440
is more than talking to a robot.

680
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:54,119
That there's actually, you know, nuance to this,

681
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,579
that can only be lived out through that

682
00:23:56,579 --> 00:23:58,039
person to person interaction.

683
00:23:58,515 --> 00:24:00,434
And so I love that. And and before

684
00:24:00,434 --> 00:24:01,954
we kinda move to the next point here,

685
00:24:01,954 --> 00:24:03,394
though, I do wanna play off of that,

686
00:24:03,394 --> 00:24:05,894
potentially, if we're talking about AI here, piece

687
00:24:06,275 --> 00:24:08,210
and say, to what degree

688
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:11,869
do you find that the AI tools that

689
00:24:11,869 --> 00:24:13,309
are available, I'm gonna have to speak to

690
00:24:13,309 --> 00:24:14,450
anyone in particular,

691
00:24:15,069 --> 00:24:15,569
provide

692
00:24:16,404 --> 00:24:19,705
an avenue for whether it is resource creation

693
00:24:19,845 --> 00:24:20,904
or new ideas,

694
00:24:21,525 --> 00:24:24,319
to help support this effort and this work,

695
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,019
because to

696
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:26,980
provide

697
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,079
these many choices is a mindset and an

698
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:31,599
understanding of a number of strategies that maybe

699
00:24:31,599 --> 00:24:33,039
are outside of the ones you would personally

700
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,654
use. And the development of the resources and

701
00:24:35,654 --> 00:24:36,554
materials necessary

702
00:24:37,015 --> 00:24:38,615
can also be a big lift. So do

703
00:24:38,775 --> 00:24:40,075
does AI help with that?

704
00:24:40,775 --> 00:24:44,230
Oh, I think AI is incredibly helpful to

705
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:46,230
kind of boost the productivity and efficiency of

706
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:47,610
both teachers and students.

707
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:51,055
And I think that there is definitely a

708
00:24:51,055 --> 00:24:52,994
way to use it really ethically and productively

709
00:24:53,214 --> 00:24:55,234
and a way that there's an overdependence

710
00:24:55,695 --> 00:24:58,009
on the robots to think for you. So

711
00:24:58,009 --> 00:25:00,089
Kat Tucker and I, dear friend, Kat Tucker,

712
00:25:00,089 --> 00:25:01,929
we've written 3 books together. Our 4th is

713
00:25:01,929 --> 00:25:02,829
coming out this

714
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,734
fall, and it's actually it's about AI in

715
00:25:06,734 --> 00:25:08,115
service of strong pedagogy.

716
00:25:08,654 --> 00:25:11,134
And throughout the book, we kinda show the

717
00:25:11,134 --> 00:25:13,549
nuances of how you can use it, but

718
00:25:13,710 --> 00:25:16,289
also you must really understand the framework

719
00:25:16,910 --> 00:25:17,650
to recognize

720
00:25:18,110 --> 00:25:19,809
where the AI falls short.

721
00:25:20,350 --> 00:25:23,404
So it almost allows you to, like, really

722
00:25:23,945 --> 00:25:26,345
just kind of offload the, like, depth of

723
00:25:26,345 --> 00:25:28,744
knowledge 1, depth of knowledge 2, just kind

724
00:25:28,744 --> 00:25:30,904
of create something for me quickly so I

725
00:25:30,904 --> 00:25:33,200
can really critique it and compare it to

726
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,359
what I know about the research and then

727
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,279
continue to have a conversation with the robot

728
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,694
to make it really great. Because, you know,

729
00:25:39,774 --> 00:25:41,714
is it great for coming up with ideas?

730
00:25:41,855 --> 00:25:42,355
Absolutely.

731
00:25:42,734 --> 00:25:44,734
But if you were to say something to

732
00:25:44,734 --> 00:25:46,595
one of the bots and you were to

733
00:25:46,654 --> 00:25:49,154
say, I have a writing standard, and

734
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:51,940
it's really that students will be able

735
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,080
to write informational text where they are doing

736
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,019
research, reflection, and analysis.

737
00:25:58,984 --> 00:26:00,825
K. Those are the nonnegotiable. So I have

738
00:26:00,825 --> 00:26:02,585
to unpack for kids. Like, what does it

739
00:26:02,585 --> 00:26:03,085
mean

740
00:26:03,544 --> 00:26:05,544
to research? Right? And and what is the

741
00:26:05,544 --> 00:26:07,164
criteria for really high quality,

742
00:26:07,464 --> 00:26:07,964
research

743
00:26:08,460 --> 00:26:10,460
sources? And then what does it mean to

744
00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:12,799
reflect, and how is reflection different from analysis?

745
00:26:12,860 --> 00:26:14,299
Right? And what does that look like? And

746
00:26:14,299 --> 00:26:15,795
so we're gonna look at some

747
00:26:16,195 --> 00:26:18,134
which I can provide multiple means of representation

748
00:26:18,355 --> 00:26:19,255
for those exemplars.

749
00:26:19,555 --> 00:26:21,394
You know, peer review. What do you notice

750
00:26:21,394 --> 00:26:22,934
that's strong about this? But, ultimately,

751
00:26:23,555 --> 00:26:25,255
I want kids to have a choice

752
00:26:25,649 --> 00:26:27,009
of what they're gonna write about. If you

753
00:26:27,009 --> 00:26:29,809
were to ask an AI bot to universally

754
00:26:29,809 --> 00:26:31,809
design that task, it will give you options

755
00:26:31,809 --> 00:26:33,809
like, well, some kids will really struggle with

756
00:26:33,809 --> 00:26:34,744
writing, so just allow

757
00:26:36,825 --> 00:26:38,025
them to make a presentation. No. No. Bad

758
00:26:38,025 --> 00:26:41,404
robot. Because we have to produce

759
00:26:42,025 --> 00:26:43,005
writing. Now

760
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,440
the nuance of that is you can produce

761
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,139
writing with voice to text.

762
00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:50,399
Right? You can produce writing by first having

763
00:26:50,399 --> 00:26:52,474
a story line, explain to the teacher exactly

764
00:26:52,474 --> 00:26:54,875
what you wanna have, and then maybe creating

765
00:26:54,875 --> 00:26:56,634
an outline and then using AI to produce

766
00:26:56,634 --> 00:26:58,555
something. But I think that a lot of

767
00:26:58,555 --> 00:26:59,214
the times,

768
00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:01,559
it doesn't have the ability to think as

769
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:03,819
critically as we do to say,

770
00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:07,484
no. Writing has to be produced, but I

771
00:27:07,484 --> 00:27:09,424
definitely wanna leverage emerging

772
00:27:09,964 --> 00:27:12,384
assistive, augmentative, and artificial intelligence.

773
00:27:13,404 --> 00:27:15,339
And then it will give you something else.

774
00:27:15,339 --> 00:27:16,700
And then you're like, okay. I love that,

775
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:17,980
but I have students in my class who

776
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:20,140
have really significant intellectual support needs. I need

777
00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:20,880
more scaffolds.

778
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:23,464
Right? Or I love that, but I have

779
00:27:23,464 --> 00:27:25,865
some student. And so I think it's the

780
00:27:25,865 --> 00:27:26,365
conversation.

781
00:27:26,744 --> 00:27:28,365
It I think of it as, like,

782
00:27:29,384 --> 00:27:30,204
an instructional

783
00:27:30,904 --> 00:27:32,605
coach slash assistant

784
00:27:33,769 --> 00:27:34,269
where

785
00:27:35,130 --> 00:27:38,349
the having the conversation and continuing the conversation,

786
00:27:39,049 --> 00:27:41,369
it can be an amazing, amazing thought partner,

787
00:27:41,369 --> 00:27:42,429
but it's not

788
00:27:42,775 --> 00:27:45,674
hopefully ever going to be reliable enough

789
00:27:46,134 --> 00:27:47,035
to just say,

790
00:27:47,494 --> 00:27:49,494
give me 4 ideas for an assessment and

791
00:27:49,494 --> 00:27:50,555
use them exactly

792
00:27:51,049 --> 00:27:53,370
because we can't guarantee it's gonna be right.

793
00:27:53,370 --> 00:27:56,410
Sometimes it nails it, but sometimes you say

794
00:27:56,410 --> 00:27:59,294
no. Like, that would be, quote, unquote, too

795
00:27:59,294 --> 00:28:01,694
easy, meaning that it's not the expectations are

796
00:28:01,694 --> 00:28:03,315
below grade level, which is never appropriate.

797
00:28:03,694 --> 00:28:06,575
Right? Or sometimes you might say, well, that's

798
00:28:06,575 --> 00:28:07,554
not construct

799
00:28:08,399 --> 00:28:08,899
relevant,

800
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:12,099
which means that the the option doesn't actually

801
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:14,480
lead to the same goal. Like, if if

802
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,375
writing is the goal, we need to look

803
00:28:16,375 --> 00:28:18,095
at lots of great examples of writing. We

804
00:28:18,095 --> 00:28:19,455
need to think about all the different ways

805
00:28:19,455 --> 00:28:20,115
that writers

806
00:28:20,654 --> 00:28:22,654
kind of preplan, how they plan, how they

807
00:28:22,654 --> 00:28:24,335
organize, what are the tools we can use

808
00:28:24,335 --> 00:28:26,730
for editing, revising. Right? That can be really

809
00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:28,190
flexible, but, ultimately,

810
00:28:28,730 --> 00:28:30,650
writing needs to be posted online in a

811
00:28:30,650 --> 00:28:32,250
way that we can interact with each other,

812
00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:34,164
and that's not negotiable. So what are all

813
00:28:34,164 --> 00:28:35,845
the ways that we can do that? So

814
00:28:35,845 --> 00:28:37,625
I think that that's a a good reminder

815
00:28:37,764 --> 00:28:38,984
as I love it,

816
00:28:39,524 --> 00:28:41,044
but I think that we always have to

817
00:28:41,044 --> 00:28:42,744
keep our skill set

818
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:45,589
our skill set really, really current so we

819
00:28:45,589 --> 00:28:48,069
can make sure that we're guiding the robot

820
00:28:48,069 --> 00:28:49,190
to do what we really need it to

821
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:49,690
do.

822
00:28:50,525 --> 00:28:52,204
Love all that as it pertains to this

823
00:28:52,204 --> 00:28:54,845
conversation because those tools have a lot of

824
00:28:54,845 --> 00:28:56,444
potential, but I I like what you say

825
00:28:56,444 --> 00:28:58,845
there about keeping our skills sharp. And the

826
00:28:58,845 --> 00:29:01,220
need to to do that is multifaceted. Some

827
00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:02,759
of that is professional learning,

828
00:29:03,059 --> 00:29:04,500
and some of that is the structure, which

829
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:06,359
is something else we talked about getting into

830
00:29:06,595 --> 00:29:08,914
within which you're learning and being supported as

831
00:29:08,914 --> 00:29:10,755
you grow in this work. And so, you

832
00:29:10,755 --> 00:29:12,115
know, as someone who gets a chance to

833
00:29:12,115 --> 00:29:14,835
support classroom practitioners and also school leaders in

834
00:29:14,835 --> 00:29:16,680
their support of those teachers.

835
00:29:17,059 --> 00:29:18,339
What do you see as being some of

836
00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:19,720
the successful attributes

837
00:29:20,019 --> 00:29:21,700
of, I'll just use it again, supports that

838
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:23,720
come around teachers in in growing in UDL?

839
00:29:24,194 --> 00:29:26,835
So there's this really amazing resource I'm totally

840
00:29:26,835 --> 00:29:29,234
obsessed with. It's called Guskey's for as in

841
00:29:29,234 --> 00:29:29,974
Tom Guskey.

842
00:29:30,275 --> 00:29:30,775
Guskey's,

843
00:29:31,315 --> 00:29:33,894
5 levels of professional development evaluation.

844
00:29:34,660 --> 00:29:35,160
And

845
00:29:35,619 --> 00:29:36,359
in it,

846
00:29:36,819 --> 00:29:39,859
he essentially talks about how when we provide

847
00:29:39,859 --> 00:29:41,400
professional development to teachers,

848
00:29:41,940 --> 00:29:42,980
generally, we

849
00:29:43,515 --> 00:29:45,355
I would argue that we often measure it

850
00:29:45,355 --> 00:29:47,115
at a level 1 or a level 2,

851
00:29:47,115 --> 00:29:48,575
which is, like, did you like it?

852
00:29:48,954 --> 00:29:50,795
So I go into a district. I do

853
00:29:50,795 --> 00:29:52,335
a full day workshop on UDL.

854
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:54,679
You know, it's like the spark that gets

855
00:29:54,679 --> 00:29:56,839
people excited. I model a bunch of lessons.

856
00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:58,759
I show a bunch of routines. We talk

857
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:00,279
about how we can shift to student led.

858
00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:02,164
We play with AI tools. People are so

859
00:30:02,164 --> 00:30:02,664
excited.

860
00:30:03,125 --> 00:30:05,525
And if I really nail it, you know,

861
00:30:05,525 --> 00:30:08,080
95% above will be like, yes. It was

862
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,299
an awesome presentation.

863
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,920
You know, she was so knowledgeable. It was

864
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,779
time well spent. I learned so much.

865
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,160
And that's it. Right? That's all they get.

866
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,299
Right? And

867
00:30:17,724 --> 00:30:20,384
level 3 is, like, is the organization

868
00:30:21,085 --> 00:30:22,144
truly prepared

869
00:30:23,244 --> 00:30:25,804
to advocate for and support and move this

870
00:30:25,804 --> 00:30:28,250
work forward? So for me, that is

871
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:30,569
instructional coaching. That is

872
00:30:31,349 --> 00:30:35,075
instructional leaders in teachers' classrooms every single day

873
00:30:35,075 --> 00:30:39,394
making unannounced observations, providing non evaluative feedback. It's

874
00:30:39,394 --> 00:30:42,134
about professional learning communities. It's about instructional

875
00:30:42,515 --> 00:30:45,820
rounds. It's about coming back to whatever the

876
00:30:45,820 --> 00:30:49,019
focus of professional development was within faculty meeting

877
00:30:49,019 --> 00:30:52,595
structures, within future professional development days. And so

878
00:30:52,595 --> 00:30:53,894
that level 3

879
00:30:54,355 --> 00:30:57,174
is often, like, not something that we proactively

880
00:30:57,394 --> 00:30:58,134
and intentionally

881
00:30:58,515 --> 00:31:00,440
plan for where someone will say, we would

882
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,480
love for you to come out and get

883
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,480
people really excited about UDL. And I'm like,

884
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,400
k. I got it. Right? Like, give me

885
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:06,059
my orders.

886
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:08,714
You say jump. I say how high, but

887
00:31:08,714 --> 00:31:10,255
that fire is gonna extinguish

888
00:31:10,714 --> 00:31:11,214
fast.

889
00:31:11,515 --> 00:31:13,515
So what is your plan for stoking that

890
00:31:13,515 --> 00:31:15,769
fire? How do we keep that fire burning?

891
00:31:15,930 --> 00:31:18,109
And this needs to be touch points weekly

892
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:18,670
throughout

893
00:31:19,369 --> 00:31:21,470
the year. So what's your scope and sequence

894
00:31:21,529 --> 00:31:24,714
for supporting this? And that support means when

895
00:31:24,714 --> 00:31:26,554
teachers are doing it, how do we celebrate

896
00:31:26,554 --> 00:31:28,075
the heck out of the fact that people

897
00:31:28,075 --> 00:31:29,835
who are so overwhelmed are willing to try

898
00:31:29,835 --> 00:31:32,075
something new? Perfect. How do we know that

899
00:31:32,075 --> 00:31:34,009
people are making these shifts? And then how

900
00:31:34,009 --> 00:31:35,849
do we celebrate that? And when teachers are

901
00:31:35,849 --> 00:31:36,349
not,

902
00:31:36,730 --> 00:31:38,650
how do we help them? And how do

903
00:31:38,650 --> 00:31:40,910
we say, listen. Like, this is where education

904
00:31:40,970 --> 00:31:42,809
is going. We know that you're capable of

905
00:31:42,809 --> 00:31:44,315
doing it. What do you need in terms

906
00:31:44,315 --> 00:31:46,234
of instructional materials? What do you need in

907
00:31:46,234 --> 00:31:48,154
terms of coaching? Is there someone that you

908
00:31:48,154 --> 00:31:50,095
wanna observe? Like, we can help you.

909
00:31:50,609 --> 00:31:52,309
And then it needs to be constant feedback.

910
00:31:52,529 --> 00:31:55,250
Level 4 is are we actually implementing these

911
00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:56,150
things in classrooms?

912
00:31:56,769 --> 00:31:58,929
So people will sometimes have me come out

913
00:31:58,929 --> 00:32:01,284
where I know for sure that teachers do

914
00:32:01,284 --> 00:32:03,845
understand what universal design for learning is. And

915
00:32:03,845 --> 00:32:05,845
then you go through classrooms and you see

916
00:32:05,845 --> 00:32:07,845
what would have been really strong teaching, you

917
00:32:07,845 --> 00:32:10,470
know, 20 years ago. Still very, like, teacher

918
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:11,289
direct instruction,

919
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:13,990
a lot of, you know, students being passive,

920
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:15,750
much more teacher talk than student talk. You

921
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:17,369
know, things like that that we saw

922
00:32:17,724 --> 00:32:20,365
decades ago and were successful before we had

923
00:32:20,365 --> 00:32:22,365
much more inclusive diverse classrooms and before we

924
00:32:22,365 --> 00:32:23,585
had this emerging technology,

925
00:32:23,964 --> 00:32:25,664
but we're just not seeing it in classrooms.

926
00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:29,130
And so that 4th layer is if your

927
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,150
professional development can't change

928
00:32:32,170 --> 00:32:35,130
the structure of your classrooms, the pedagogy of

929
00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:35,884
teachers, what

930
00:32:44,365 --> 00:32:45,980
right, then we're not gonna get to level

931
00:32:45,980 --> 00:32:47,039
5, which is

932
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:49,440
actual outcomes for kids are different.

933
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:51,519
Right? Kids are

934
00:32:51,899 --> 00:32:54,914
reporting much higher levels of engagement and belonging.

935
00:32:55,454 --> 00:32:57,535
Kids can, in a a survey, say, I

936
00:32:57,535 --> 00:32:59,295
have so many options and choices to share

937
00:32:59,295 --> 00:33:02,059
what I'm learning. I am able to achieve

938
00:33:02,059 --> 00:33:04,140
things that I didn't think were possible. I

939
00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:06,779
am known in this classroom community. Right? And,

940
00:33:06,779 --> 00:33:08,940
like, I do creative project based work every

941
00:33:08,940 --> 00:33:10,595
single day. You know? So we have to

942
00:33:10,595 --> 00:33:12,755
measure that, and and that, again, is gonna

943
00:33:12,755 --> 00:33:13,255
lead

944
00:33:13,634 --> 00:33:14,615
to increased attendance,

945
00:33:15,235 --> 00:33:17,335
decreased, you know, behavioral disruptions,

946
00:33:18,170 --> 00:33:20,570
increased learning, which is, like, what we do.

947
00:33:20,570 --> 00:33:22,269
Like, that's where the business of.

948
00:33:22,650 --> 00:33:23,150
And

949
00:33:24,250 --> 00:33:26,730
it's so it seems so far away because

950
00:33:26,730 --> 00:33:28,994
it's so long term. And so it's like

951
00:33:28,994 --> 00:33:31,795
we're measuring professional development on how happy people

952
00:33:31,795 --> 00:33:33,414
were after a 2 hour session

953
00:33:33,795 --> 00:33:34,775
when in fact,

954
00:33:35,089 --> 00:33:37,430
that is the smallest tip of the iceberg,

955
00:33:38,049 --> 00:33:39,970
and the system really needs to be prepared

956
00:33:39,970 --> 00:33:41,809
for how we're going to keep this at

957
00:33:41,809 --> 00:33:42,470
the forefront

958
00:33:43,274 --> 00:33:45,595
to help teachers to do this well. Do

959
00:33:45,595 --> 00:33:48,075
they have time together to plan? Do they

960
00:33:48,075 --> 00:33:50,474
have ongoing professional development when they have questions

961
00:33:50,474 --> 00:33:52,600
and they get stuck? Do they have expert

962
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,680
early adopters and lab classrooms so they can

963
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,779
see it in action? Do they have instructional

964
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,440
coaches to get in there? Right? Do they

965
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,044
have, you know, opportunities to get feedback on

966
00:34:01,044 --> 00:34:03,365
next steps, and are they able to correlate

967
00:34:03,365 --> 00:34:05,525
those changes in practice to increases in student

968
00:34:05,525 --> 00:34:08,190
outcomes? So we need not just data meetings,

969
00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:09,570
but an authentic culture.

970
00:34:09,949 --> 00:34:10,449
Whereas

971
00:34:10,910 --> 00:34:12,590
I get to look at data and say,

972
00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:15,045
holy moly. Like, I know that what I'm

973
00:34:15,045 --> 00:34:16,965
doing is making a positive impact. You could

974
00:34:16,965 --> 00:34:18,744
be, darn sure I'm gonna keep doing it,

975
00:34:19,045 --> 00:34:22,164
versus, okay. What I'm doing doesn't seem to

976
00:34:22,164 --> 00:34:24,690
be positively impacting kids. Can someone help me?

977
00:34:24,910 --> 00:34:26,190
Because I feel like I'm doing what you're

978
00:34:26,190 --> 00:34:27,250
asking me to do.

979
00:34:27,630 --> 00:34:29,550
And for some reason, it's just not making

980
00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:31,309
a difference. So can someone help me? If

981
00:34:31,309 --> 00:34:32,929
teachers don't have that,

982
00:34:33,775 --> 00:34:36,335
then we're simply not going to have the

983
00:34:36,335 --> 00:34:39,454
culture that we need to to really have

984
00:34:39,454 --> 00:34:41,454
adult learners who are willing to take risks,

985
00:34:41,454 --> 00:34:43,234
that are willing to try these new things,

986
00:34:43,450 --> 00:34:45,769
and that will have the the capacity to

987
00:34:45,769 --> 00:34:48,250
change the outcomes of kids. Because what we

988
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:49,390
are doing right now

989
00:34:49,769 --> 00:34:52,914
is producing the outcomes we're experiencing, period. Right?

990
00:34:52,914 --> 00:34:55,714
The system is so good at producing the

991
00:34:55,714 --> 00:34:58,114
outcomes that we currently have, and those aren't

992
00:34:58,114 --> 00:34:59,795
good enough for anyone. Teachers are working way

993
00:34:59,795 --> 00:35:01,699
too hard to have outcomes like that. So

994
00:35:01,699 --> 00:35:03,780
we have to teach differently, but teachers need

995
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:04,920
support to do this.

996
00:35:05,699 --> 00:35:07,880
I couldn't agree more. And in thinking about

997
00:35:08,019 --> 00:35:09,219
some of the ways in which we talk

998
00:35:09,219 --> 00:35:10,914
about some of this work in Nebraska, we

999
00:35:10,914 --> 00:35:12,755
talk about coherence where we wanna make sure

1000
00:35:12,755 --> 00:35:14,695
that all of our efforts and initiatives align.

1001
00:35:15,394 --> 00:35:17,394
In the spirit of that, around a year

1002
00:35:17,394 --> 00:35:19,829
ago, we did a webinar where we brought

1003
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:20,809
together some folks,

1004
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:23,190
who are committed to HQIM with this high

1005
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:24,409
quality instructional materials,

1006
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:26,710
and some folks that are steeped in UDL

1007
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:28,614
to, like, also say that that we're not

1008
00:35:28,614 --> 00:35:30,934
talking about different things here. But I have

1009
00:35:30,934 --> 00:35:34,135
had the opportunity to collaborate with, educated outside

1010
00:35:34,135 --> 00:35:36,329
of Nebraska. So I'll, like, just completely take

1011
00:35:36,329 --> 00:35:38,510
us away from my my home stay here,

1012
00:35:38,969 --> 00:35:41,130
as an example. But where some of the

1013
00:35:41,130 --> 00:35:44,170
instructional materials can become so scripted or at

1014
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:46,394
least implemented in a way that feels so

1015
00:35:46,394 --> 00:35:48,474
scripted. The educators don't always feel like they

1016
00:35:48,474 --> 00:35:50,954
have the autonomy and space to be a

1017
00:35:50,954 --> 00:35:52,494
learning experience designer.

1018
00:35:53,114 --> 00:35:55,509
And I do think that both can coexist,

1019
00:35:55,569 --> 00:35:57,809
and I've seen that take place as I'm

1020
00:35:57,809 --> 00:35:58,949
sure you have as well.

1021
00:35:59,409 --> 00:36:01,489
And so maybe just a little bit before

1022
00:36:01,489 --> 00:36:03,190
we kinda bring things to a close,

1023
00:36:03,644 --> 00:36:04,545
to speak to

1024
00:36:05,164 --> 00:36:07,005
maybe the Venn diagram that is a little

1025
00:36:07,005 --> 00:36:08,545
bit better or where that rub,

1026
00:36:08,845 --> 00:36:10,065
takes place because,

1027
00:36:10,525 --> 00:36:12,285
I know that there is an opportunity for

1028
00:36:12,285 --> 00:36:13,105
these to coexist.

1029
00:36:14,190 --> 00:36:16,109
Totally. So what I would say first is

1030
00:36:16,109 --> 00:36:18,369
high quality instructional materials are inclusive,

1031
00:36:18,909 --> 00:36:22,014
period. So just because something is purchased doesn't

1032
00:36:22,014 --> 00:36:22,514
necessarily

1033
00:36:22,894 --> 00:36:23,875
make it high quality.

1034
00:36:24,255 --> 00:36:25,554
If it's high quality,

1035
00:36:26,014 --> 00:36:28,434
it is aligned to grade level standards.

1036
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:32,390
It is, you know, really, really user friendly

1037
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:33,210
for teachers,

1038
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:36,525
and it is inclusive by design. Right? We

1039
00:36:36,525 --> 00:36:38,764
wanna make sure that, you know, a really

1040
00:36:38,764 --> 00:36:41,664
good instructional program will have a digital component

1041
00:36:42,045 --> 00:36:43,559
where you have the work book in front

1042
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:45,039
of you, but you can also access it

1043
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:46,800
digitally so you can have it read aloud

1044
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,559
to you so that you can go through

1045
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:49,059
simulations.

1046
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:50,960
But what I would say is I have

1047
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,715
never ever worked with a group of teachers

1048
00:36:52,715 --> 00:36:54,715
who were using a really high quality instructional

1049
00:36:54,715 --> 00:36:55,215
material

1050
00:36:55,675 --> 00:36:58,414
that weren't able to see how incredibly,

1051
00:36:58,795 --> 00:36:59,250
incredibly,

1052
00:36:59,650 --> 00:37:02,289
universally designed it could be by reading between

1053
00:37:02,289 --> 00:37:03,989
the lines of the teacher's manual.

1054
00:37:04,369 --> 00:37:06,789
So I recently worked with the science department,

1055
00:37:07,655 --> 00:37:08,155
and

1056
00:37:08,535 --> 00:37:10,934
the materials were incredibly high quality. So on

1057
00:37:10,934 --> 00:37:13,095
ed reports, you know, they meet all of

1058
00:37:13,095 --> 00:37:13,595
the,

1059
00:37:14,135 --> 00:37:17,019
the criteria for grade level alignment for teacher

1060
00:37:17,019 --> 00:37:17,519
usability.

1061
00:37:17,820 --> 00:37:20,239
Right? It's digital. It's hard copy. There's manipulatives.

1062
00:37:20,539 --> 00:37:22,320
But it will say something like,

1063
00:37:23,579 --> 00:37:25,039
students will view the simulation.

1064
00:37:25,954 --> 00:37:28,275
Okay. Great. So as a teacher, I might

1065
00:37:28,275 --> 00:37:30,054
say, I have a really big screen,

1066
00:37:30,514 --> 00:37:32,355
and you all can come over here movie

1067
00:37:32,355 --> 00:37:34,269
theater style, get all comfy and cozy. You

1068
00:37:34,269 --> 00:37:36,750
can watch the simulation there. If you'd prefer,

1069
00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:38,369
you can watch it on your own device.

1070
00:37:38,429 --> 00:37:40,829
That allows you to pause it to change

1071
00:37:40,829 --> 00:37:41,570
the contrast

1072
00:37:41,994 --> 00:37:44,394
to translate the closed captions. So you can

1073
00:37:44,394 --> 00:37:46,155
either do big movie screen style, or you

1074
00:37:46,155 --> 00:37:47,275
can do it on your own device if

1075
00:37:47,275 --> 00:37:49,054
you want something a little more sensory sensitive.

1076
00:37:49,114 --> 00:37:50,815
You wanna work through on your own pace.

1077
00:37:50,954 --> 00:37:51,614
You know?

1078
00:37:52,139 --> 00:37:54,299
First, again, as I shared before, trying it

1079
00:37:54,299 --> 00:37:56,299
out, like, this is what this experience is.

1080
00:37:56,299 --> 00:37:58,859
It's loud. We're not pausing it versus the

1081
00:37:58,859 --> 00:38:01,199
other one. Then it's like read.

1082
00:38:01,954 --> 00:38:03,795
Okay. Great. Would you rather read it in

1083
00:38:03,795 --> 00:38:05,954
hard copy? Would you rather read it digitally?

1084
00:38:05,954 --> 00:38:07,315
Do you wanna sit in a small group

1085
00:38:07,315 --> 00:38:09,210
and have somebody read it? Then there's, like,

1086
00:38:09,210 --> 00:38:11,130
a question, and it's like, have students answer

1087
00:38:11,130 --> 00:38:12,730
the question. Like, it literally is like, here's

1088
00:38:12,730 --> 00:38:13,390
the question.

1089
00:38:13,849 --> 00:38:17,210
It doesn't say must be in open circle

1090
00:38:17,210 --> 00:38:19,835
every 2 student answering. It doesn't say must,

1091
00:38:19,835 --> 00:38:21,835
you know, carve in your own blood in

1092
00:38:21,835 --> 00:38:23,675
notebook. Like, it's like kids will answer the

1093
00:38:23,675 --> 00:38:25,675
question. So right there, it's like, alright, loves.

1094
00:38:25,675 --> 00:38:27,639
How do you wanna answer this question? Everybody's

1095
00:38:27,639 --> 00:38:29,480
watched the simulation. Some are sitting on the

1096
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,639
ground. Some have their earbuds. Some are taking

1097
00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:33,559
notes in a notebook. Some are typing it.

1098
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:35,375
They all have access to the same text.

1099
00:38:35,614 --> 00:38:38,255
I'm walking around because I'm not standing there

1100
00:38:38,255 --> 00:38:39,855
reading it, you know, checking in. Okay. You

1101
00:38:39,855 --> 00:38:41,295
seem distracted. Why don't we move over? How

1102
00:38:41,295 --> 00:38:43,215
are you doing? Right. I'm using formative assessment.

1103
00:38:43,215 --> 00:38:45,210
I might pull small groups if necessary. And

1104
00:38:45,289 --> 00:38:46,730
then I'm like, okay. Everyone has to answer

1105
00:38:46,730 --> 00:38:47,389
this question.

1106
00:38:47,769 --> 00:38:48,969
Let's do it in a way that is

1107
00:38:48,969 --> 00:38:50,969
visible because I don't know how to read

1108
00:38:50,969 --> 00:38:53,505
minds quite yet. So, you can either, you

1109
00:38:53,505 --> 00:38:55,285
know, do a combination of words and pictures.

1110
00:38:55,425 --> 00:38:57,345
You can record your voice and tell me.

1111
00:38:57,345 --> 00:38:57,664
You could

1112
00:38:58,625 --> 00:39:01,739
that is one 1000% using those materials with

1113
00:39:01,739 --> 00:39:04,299
all integrity. Right? Because it's all about formative

1114
00:39:04,299 --> 00:39:06,859
assessment tasks. And when I said it, the

1115
00:39:06,859 --> 00:39:08,319
teachers were like, oh

1116
00:39:08,619 --> 00:39:09,405
my word.

1117
00:39:10,204 --> 00:39:12,925
And this is, like, every unit. Every unit's

1118
00:39:12,925 --> 00:39:14,465
kind of like this. And I'm like, yeah.

1119
00:39:14,684 --> 00:39:15,824
So I think sometimes

1120
00:39:16,125 --> 00:39:18,309
we just have, like, this kind of historical

1121
00:39:18,369 --> 00:39:19,750
bias of read

1122
00:39:20,530 --> 00:39:21,030
is

1123
00:39:21,489 --> 00:39:23,010
we're gonna I'm gonna stand up in front

1124
00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:24,630
of the class, and I'm gonna read it.

1125
00:39:25,514 --> 00:39:27,514
Watch. I have a smart board. We might

1126
00:39:27,514 --> 00:39:28,954
as well all come together and watch it

1127
00:39:28,954 --> 00:39:31,195
at the same pace. Answer the question. Must

1128
00:39:31,195 --> 00:39:32,735
be on these lines in the notebook.

1129
00:39:33,069 --> 00:39:36,109
But, like, it doesn't actually say that. And

1130
00:39:36,109 --> 00:39:38,130
so I always think about, like, the flexibility

1131
00:39:38,349 --> 00:39:40,750
of verbs. Right? What are the ways students

1132
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:42,714
could answer the question? And if it says

1133
00:39:42,714 --> 00:39:44,795
right, what are the ways that students could

1134
00:39:44,795 --> 00:39:47,034
write? But I am a huge advocate for

1135
00:39:47,034 --> 00:39:49,275
high quality instructional materials. I don't think that

1136
00:39:49,275 --> 00:39:52,090
any teacher should have to create things from

1137
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:53,690
scratch. I think that it is

1138
00:39:54,070 --> 00:39:56,410
like Sisyphus pushing the rock

1139
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:58,550
up the hill, and it keeps rolling back

1140
00:39:58,550 --> 00:40:00,534
down. It's like an old big myth because

1141
00:40:00,534 --> 00:40:02,454
it's like the standards are always evolving. The

1142
00:40:02,454 --> 00:40:03,914
technology is always evolving.

1143
00:40:04,295 --> 00:40:07,514
And I wanna give teachers the best foundation

1144
00:40:08,054 --> 00:40:09,195
for being amazing,

1145
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:12,250
which is time with colleagues, great professional development,

1146
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:15,349
amazing instructional materials. And then I use all

1147
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:16,889
of those things and say,

1148
00:40:17,275 --> 00:40:19,035
you know what? Like, I've been doing these

1149
00:40:19,035 --> 00:40:21,594
mini lessons like the curriculum says. The kids

1150
00:40:21,594 --> 00:40:23,515
don't seem to remember them very much. I

1151
00:40:23,515 --> 00:40:25,195
wanna make sure I have some note taking

1152
00:40:25,195 --> 00:40:28,159
just because it feels like they're missing it.

1153
00:40:28,219 --> 00:40:30,059
So I'm gonna make sure, number 1, that,

1154
00:40:30,059 --> 00:40:31,739
like, I have one kid who's, like, recording

1155
00:40:31,739 --> 00:40:33,179
me in an iPad so I can post

1156
00:40:33,179 --> 00:40:35,565
it on, you know, the Google Classroom so

1157
00:40:35,565 --> 00:40:36,525
they can come back to it. And I

1158
00:40:36,525 --> 00:40:37,964
also want them to take some sort of

1159
00:40:37,964 --> 00:40:39,744
notes so they can make their thinking visible.

1160
00:40:40,125 --> 00:40:41,565
And so I can provide a couple of

1161
00:40:41,565 --> 00:40:44,750
options that like, I need the autonomy to

1162
00:40:44,750 --> 00:40:45,969
do that as an educator.

1163
00:40:46,349 --> 00:40:48,829
And I would say that if you are

1164
00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:51,170
an educator really advocating for,

1165
00:40:51,714 --> 00:40:52,375
you know,

1166
00:40:52,755 --> 00:40:53,974
what type of flexibility

1167
00:40:54,594 --> 00:40:56,934
is already, I guess, you could say,

1168
00:40:57,474 --> 00:40:59,554
set in the curriculum, because sometimes it will

1169
00:40:59,554 --> 00:41:02,019
say students can talk or students can write.

1170
00:41:02,019 --> 00:41:04,099
But there's a lot of times where it's

1171
00:41:04,099 --> 00:41:05,780
just you have to read between the lines.

1172
00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:07,160
Students will read this passage.

1173
00:41:07,699 --> 00:41:09,699
Through the lens of UDL, there are routines

1174
00:41:09,699 --> 00:41:11,585
that you you could have every time you

1175
00:41:11,585 --> 00:41:13,844
get to reading a a high quality text

1176
00:41:14,385 --> 00:41:15,844
that you don't have to ever

1177
00:41:16,465 --> 00:41:17,985
recreate the wheel. You don't have to go

1178
00:41:17,985 --> 00:41:19,670
into AI. You know, there's really only a

1179
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:22,390
couple of options. Right? Hard copy, small group,

1180
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:22,890
digital.

1181
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:25,030
That's it. Right? Make a pretty slide, and

1182
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:26,869
every they have to read, you bring it

1183
00:41:26,869 --> 00:41:27,369
back.

1184
00:41:28,324 --> 00:41:28,824
Well,

1185
00:41:29,125 --> 00:41:31,445
so grateful for those insights across a myriad

1186
00:41:31,445 --> 00:41:33,684
of different ways in which, to think about

1187
00:41:33,684 --> 00:41:35,364
not only the implementation of this work, but

1188
00:41:35,364 --> 00:41:37,750
ongoing support of it. For folks that are

1189
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:40,070
absolutely loving this conversation like I am, you

1190
00:41:40,070 --> 00:41:42,409
can actually come and listen to Katie Novak

1191
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:44,089
here in Nebraska at Kearny,

1192
00:41:44,389 --> 00:41:48,255
on September 27th. So the Nebraska MTSS Summit

1193
00:41:48,255 --> 00:41:50,355
is taking place on September 26 27th,

1194
00:41:50,894 --> 00:41:52,894
and so I encourage folks, to find the

1195
00:41:52,894 --> 00:41:54,175
time to be able to be a part

1196
00:41:54,175 --> 00:41:56,969
of that event as Katie's gonna keynote, on

1197
00:41:56,969 --> 00:41:58,429
day 2 there on 27th.

1198
00:41:58,889 --> 00:42:01,230
In addition to that, Katie, what other resources

1199
00:42:01,449 --> 00:42:04,109
or where can people find you and information,

1200
00:42:04,570 --> 00:42:06,985
pertaining to this this topic, to support them

1201
00:42:06,985 --> 00:42:09,805
as they, hopefully, are inspired, by our conversation

1202
00:42:09,864 --> 00:42:11,644
today and look to learn more?

1203
00:42:12,105 --> 00:42:13,805
Yeah. So I'm at novakeducation.com,

1204
00:42:14,744 --> 00:42:15,949
n o v a k,

1205
00:42:16,329 --> 00:42:19,289
and I have lots of different resources. I'm

1206
00:42:19,289 --> 00:42:22,010
always blogging. I actually just started a mini

1207
00:42:22,010 --> 00:42:22,510
podcast.

1208
00:42:23,275 --> 00:42:25,755
So, like, I am always so honored to

1209
00:42:25,755 --> 00:42:28,174
be on podcast and to have these amazing

1210
00:42:28,234 --> 00:42:28,734
conversations,

1211
00:42:29,194 --> 00:42:30,954
and then I'll go to present for, like,

1212
00:42:30,954 --> 00:42:33,480
a 2 hour session. And I love giving

1213
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,500
people opportunities to explore resources.

1214
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:38,460
So when we talk multiple means of representation,

1215
00:42:38,839 --> 00:42:40,440
you know, do you wanna read something? Do

1216
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,325
you wanna listen to something? You know? Do

1217
00:42:42,325 --> 00:42:43,465
you wanna watch something?

1218
00:42:44,405 --> 00:42:44,905
And

1219
00:42:45,445 --> 00:42:46,344
in my presentations,

1220
00:42:46,805 --> 00:42:49,684
I started trying to balance kind of different

1221
00:42:49,684 --> 00:42:52,460
modalities to say, okay. Think about it. You

1222
00:42:52,460 --> 00:42:53,980
know, do you wanna just sit here? If

1223
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:55,900
so, I've I've made some hard copies of

1224
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:57,795
kind of some short articles or some tools

1225
00:42:57,795 --> 00:42:59,015
like the UDL guidelines.

1226
00:42:59,394 --> 00:43:01,394
You can also access them digitally from my

1227
00:43:01,394 --> 00:43:01,894
presentation.

1228
00:43:02,594 --> 00:43:06,159
But then I started recognizing just how trapped

1229
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:08,000
a lot of educators are at a school

1230
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,280
and how nice it would be to just

1231
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,559
go for a walk or, like, get in

1232
00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:12,079
your car to go grab a coffee down

1233
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:13,664
the road. And I was like, oh, I

1234
00:43:13,664 --> 00:43:15,664
so wish that there was a podcast that

1235
00:43:15,664 --> 00:43:18,164
I could balance in, like, 15 minutes

1236
00:43:18,704 --> 00:43:20,144
to say, you can either sit and you

1237
00:43:20,144 --> 00:43:21,730
can explore this resource. You can do it

1238
00:43:21,730 --> 00:43:22,609
alone, or you can do it with a

1239
00:43:22,609 --> 00:43:24,609
partner. Or you know what? Maybe you just

1240
00:43:24,609 --> 00:43:26,369
need to get out of this place and

1241
00:43:26,369 --> 00:43:28,105
get fresh air and sun, or maybe you

1242
00:43:28,105 --> 00:43:29,704
can put in, like, an online order at

1243
00:43:29,704 --> 00:43:31,465
Starbucks and just drive over and pick it

1244
00:43:31,465 --> 00:43:33,945
up. You got 15 minutes. And so my

1245
00:43:33,945 --> 00:43:35,885
goal was to create a consumable

1246
00:43:36,510 --> 00:43:37,010
podcast.

1247
00:43:37,389 --> 00:43:39,650
So every time I present, I can model.

1248
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:42,030
You don't have to be in here sitting

1249
00:43:42,030 --> 00:43:42,849
in a chair

1250
00:43:43,285 --> 00:43:45,204
where the temperature is never right and the

1251
00:43:45,204 --> 00:43:47,704
the technology is never right. And

1252
00:43:48,565 --> 00:43:51,065
instead, if you're feeling like antsy,

1253
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,400
then throw in your earbuds, and you can

1254
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,920
listen to it. So every one of the

1255
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,239
podcast episodes is 10 minutes or less. And

1256
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,055
that means when I give a 15 minute

1257
00:43:59,055 --> 00:44:01,855
period to explore resources, there's enough time to

1258
00:44:01,855 --> 00:44:03,235
transition out to the track,

1259
00:44:03,695 --> 00:44:05,075
listen to the whole podcast,

1260
00:44:05,695 --> 00:44:08,780
transition back, or get, like, a pretty good,

1261
00:44:08,780 --> 00:44:11,820
again, Starbee's run. So, it you know, there

1262
00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:13,660
are so many brilliant podcasts for, like, a

1263
00:44:13,660 --> 00:44:15,500
nice long commute, but it's like sometimes in

1264
00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:17,724
a faculty meeting, you wanna say, you know

1265
00:44:17,724 --> 00:44:19,405
what? Why don't we all, like, build our

1266
00:44:19,405 --> 00:44:21,324
background knowledge of UDL? And then it's like,

1267
00:44:21,324 --> 00:44:22,784
okay. Let's all read the same article.

1268
00:44:23,164 --> 00:44:24,684
And, okay, that's fine if we can make

1269
00:44:24,684 --> 00:44:25,569
it accessible.

1270
00:44:25,869 --> 00:44:27,949
But I think by 3 PM, everyone is

1271
00:44:27,949 --> 00:44:29,409
so done sometimes

1272
00:44:30,030 --> 00:44:32,829
with, like, oh my gosh. People will sometimes

1273
00:44:32,829 --> 00:44:34,109
say to me, I'm allowed to leave the

1274
00:44:34,109 --> 00:44:35,295
room. I'm like, I I I can't tell

1275
00:44:35,295 --> 00:44:36,894
if you're kidding. Like, you are a highly

1276
00:44:36,894 --> 00:44:37,715
trained professional.

1277
00:44:38,655 --> 00:44:40,574
Of course, you can leave the room. Like,

1278
00:44:40,574 --> 00:44:42,655
please please. And you know what? If Starbucks

1279
00:44:42,655 --> 00:44:44,019
is backed up, like, I'm so happy when

1280
00:44:44,019 --> 00:44:45,539
you come here. Don't worry about if it's

1281
00:44:45,539 --> 00:44:47,619
a couple minutes after. But, you know, I

1282
00:44:47,619 --> 00:44:48,440
think that

1283
00:44:48,900 --> 00:44:50,739
that has been a really exciting new project

1284
00:44:50,739 --> 00:44:52,920
because it's allowed me to model

1285
00:44:53,525 --> 00:44:55,204
in some ways how we can be a

1286
00:44:55,204 --> 00:44:56,905
little bit more flexible with learning.

1287
00:44:57,684 --> 00:44:58,804
So make sure that you're checking out all

1288
00:44:58,804 --> 00:45:00,710
of those. We'll put links to those respective

1289
00:45:00,869 --> 00:45:02,150
resources in the show notes. The only thing

1290
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:03,510
I'm not sure that I caught was the

1291
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:04,489
name of that podcast.

1292
00:45:04,949 --> 00:45:07,109
Yep. It's called the education table. Like, come

1293
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:09,369
to the education table for a quick snack,

1294
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:12,784
and every episode just answers a question. So

1295
00:45:12,925 --> 00:45:13,824
what is UDL?

1296
00:45:14,684 --> 00:45:16,684
What is the ideal number of choices when

1297
00:45:16,684 --> 00:45:19,090
you're giving students options? You know? What how

1298
00:45:19,090 --> 00:45:22,450
is UDL related to differentiated instruction? So they're

1299
00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:26,210
really, really small bites of professional development, which

1300
00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:27,335
will allow educators

1301
00:45:36,289 --> 00:45:38,050
And to support folks who are really passionate,

1302
00:45:38,050 --> 00:45:39,969
wanna keep learning, but just need a different

1303
00:45:39,969 --> 00:45:40,469
way

1304
00:45:40,769 --> 00:45:42,929
to engage that. Just just need to not

1305
00:45:42,929 --> 00:45:45,010
be in the room that's either 92 degrees

1306
00:45:45,010 --> 00:45:46,875
or 57. Just you know?

1307
00:45:47,655 --> 00:45:49,414
Oh, I love that. And I I hope

1308
00:45:49,414 --> 00:45:50,695
in our small way, we get to do

1309
00:45:50,695 --> 00:45:52,135
that with this show as well. And and

1310
00:45:52,135 --> 00:45:53,655
the only way that we get to is

1311
00:45:53,655 --> 00:45:56,019
from folks like yourself being generous with their

1312
00:45:56,019 --> 00:45:56,920
time supporting,

1313
00:45:57,619 --> 00:46:00,179
our listeners. And so, Katie, thanks again, for

1314
00:46:00,179 --> 00:46:02,565
being on the show. Thank you for traveling

1315
00:46:02,625 --> 00:46:03,364
to Nebraska,

1316
00:46:03,664 --> 00:46:05,425
to share in person, and I hope really

1317
00:46:05,425 --> 00:46:07,184
wanna encourage folks to be a part of

1318
00:46:07,184 --> 00:46:09,285
that conversation on September 27th.

1319
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,760
Again, Kate, thanks for your time, and we

1320
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,059
look forward to seeing you in September.