1 00:00:00,119 --> 00:00:02,193 Welcome to product mastery now where we simplify 2 00:00:02,193 --> 00:00:05,144 the 7 knowledge areas for product mastery. These 3 00:00:05,144 --> 00:00:07,058 are the product management practices that help you 4 00:00:07,058 --> 00:00:09,531 elevate your influence as well as create those 5 00:00:09,531 --> 00:00:11,931 products your customers love. To find all 7 6 00:00:11,931 --> 00:00:13,918 simply go to product mastery now dot com. 7 00:00:14,474 --> 00:00:17,018 I'm Chad Mc, a product management professor, 8 00:00:18,130 --> 00:00:20,214 and your host, customers Now, in the past, 9 00:00:20,373 --> 00:00:22,682 we've talked about the design sprints that was 10 00:00:22,682 --> 00:00:23,558 with John R. 11 00:00:24,195 --> 00:00:26,027 He c created a way to solve big 12 00:00:26,027 --> 00:00:28,830 problems at Google and just 5. Days, resulting 13 00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:31,379 in the popular 5 day design sprint. But 14 00:00:31,379 --> 00:00:32,494 what do you do if you don't have 15 00:00:32,494 --> 00:00:34,747 5 days? How about just 2 hours 16 00:00:35,139 --> 00:00:36,418 It turns out you can still solve a 17 00:00:36,418 --> 00:00:38,735 lot of complex problems in a 2 hour 18 00:00:38,735 --> 00:00:41,292 design sprint if you know how. Think about 19 00:00:41,292 --> 00:00:44,421 that, being able to confidently solve, complex problems 20 00:00:44,421 --> 00:00:46,255 with the team in only 2 hours instead 21 00:00:46,255 --> 00:00:48,328 of days. To tell us how to gain 22 00:00:48,328 --> 00:00:48,966 that confidence. 23 00:00:49,445 --> 00:00:51,040 Teresa Cain is with us, she is the 24 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,527 best selling author of solving problem in 2 25 00:00:53,527 --> 00:00:56,239 hours, how a brainstorming and crate solutions with 26 00:00:56,239 --> 00:00:58,951 2 hour design spreads. Whose first edition became 27 00:00:58,951 --> 00:01:01,104 an instant hit among the tech teams worldwide. 28 00:01:01,583 --> 00:01:03,674 There's an all new addition for, which includes 29 00:01:03,674 --> 00:01:06,395 new Ai tools. She's currently the director of 30 00:01:06,395 --> 00:01:08,954 product management, user experience and design for a 31 00:01:09,034 --> 00:01:11,912 T pay leader in global billing and invoicing. 32 00:01:12,387 --> 00:01:14,846 She's also the founder of Lucid startup consulting, 33 00:01:15,084 --> 00:01:17,542 a training firm focused on research, strategy, 34 00:01:18,352 --> 00:01:21,300 vision for product managers, Ux teams, businesses and 35 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:21,800 entrepreneurs. 36 00:01:22,575 --> 00:01:24,089 As a reminder, we do create a written 37 00:01:24,089 --> 00:01:26,240 article of everything we discuss, you'll find that 38 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,881 resource app product mastery now dot com slash 39 00:01:28,881 --> 00:01:30,231 499. 40 00:01:30,787 --> 00:01:32,375 Teresa, I'm so glad you're with us. 41 00:01:33,328 --> 00:01:34,995 Thanks for having me, Chad. I'm looking forward 42 00:01:34,995 --> 00:01:35,392 to being here. 43 00:01:36,444 --> 00:01:38,045 I'm really looking forward to hearing more about 44 00:01:38,045 --> 00:01:39,965 the design sprint in 2 hours. 45 00:01:40,525 --> 00:01:42,864 So I thought maybe starting with some examples 46 00:01:42,924 --> 00:01:45,325 of problems that you've tackled in in the 47 00:01:45,325 --> 00:01:47,327 past or seeing others a tackle with a 48 00:01:47,327 --> 00:01:49,075 2 hour design sprint might give us some 49 00:01:49,075 --> 00:01:50,902 good context for this. You have some examples 50 00:01:50,902 --> 00:01:51,140 for us? 51 00:01:51,934 --> 00:01:53,205 Yeah. I've got a I've got a 10, 52 00:01:53,364 --> 00:01:55,127 so you can... To touch on it. My 53 00:01:55,127 --> 00:01:58,466 current role. So I'm currently managing team product 54 00:01:58,466 --> 00:02:01,700 managers, user... User researchers and designers, and to 55 00:02:01,899 --> 00:02:05,010 we actually perform around 52 hour designs sprints 56 00:02:05,010 --> 00:02:06,685 a year and have done it that way 57 00:02:06,685 --> 00:02:08,679 for several years, and then I've also, 58 00:02:09,077 --> 00:02:10,614 coached a little over 300 59 00:02:10,832 --> 00:02:12,836 organizations on this process as well. So I 60 00:02:12,836 --> 00:02:15,694 could pull from a multitude of examples, but 61 00:02:15,694 --> 00:02:16,908 what I like to 62 00:02:17,282 --> 00:02:19,346 really pull from in that comparison for those 63 00:02:19,346 --> 00:02:22,223 that really don't have that process exposure, when 64 00:02:22,223 --> 00:02:23,976 thinking through what a 5 day versus 2 65 00:02:23,976 --> 00:02:26,525 hour and how that condensing looks. So. A 66 00:02:26,525 --> 00:02:29,074 5 day design sprint is really great for 67 00:02:29,074 --> 00:02:29,733 a complex 68 00:02:30,204 --> 00:02:32,197 problem. So you have something and you have 69 00:02:32,197 --> 00:02:32,675 the time. 70 00:02:33,233 --> 00:02:34,907 So that means you could schedule it out 71 00:02:34,907 --> 00:02:37,139 3 to 6 months in advance. It's something 72 00:02:37,139 --> 00:02:38,508 you can really sit on and think gone. 73 00:02:39,145 --> 00:02:41,451 A 2 hour designs sprint has an immediate 74 00:02:41,451 --> 00:02:42,882 demand. And you have to think. I work 75 00:02:42,882 --> 00:02:45,347 in the fintech space. There are new competitors 76 00:02:45,347 --> 00:02:46,563 coming out in the market 77 00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:49,413 every single week, when I started there 6 78 00:02:49,413 --> 00:02:52,587 years ago, we had 5 competitors, and we 79 00:02:52,587 --> 00:02:54,588 are... We have over 50 now. I mean, 80 00:02:54,747 --> 00:02:57,134 it's amazing. And so a lot of organizations, 81 00:02:57,373 --> 00:02:58,964 like, the 1 I work for don't really 82 00:02:58,964 --> 00:03:01,908 have time to sit on problems for 6 83 00:03:01,908 --> 00:03:03,261 months and then go solve them later. 84 00:03:03,912 --> 00:03:06,138 So the concept of 2 hours really is 85 00:03:06,138 --> 00:03:08,204 meant for any problem that a, you need 86 00:03:08,204 --> 00:03:10,589 an immediate need to go solve it, But 87 00:03:10,589 --> 00:03:13,546 also something that you already have idea isolation 88 00:03:13,546 --> 00:03:15,617 on either it's on your backlog. It's a 89 00:03:15,617 --> 00:03:18,326 client request. And really any problem makes for 90 00:03:18,326 --> 00:03:20,716 a good problem we're getting a team together 91 00:03:20,716 --> 00:03:21,990 to talk about and I hate it. 92 00:03:22,884 --> 00:03:25,999 So some of my favorite problems are... I 93 00:03:25,999 --> 00:03:27,916 like to... It's funny. I saw this article 94 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:30,169 this week on, like... How people are saying 95 00:03:30,169 --> 00:03:32,889 dashboards are, like, out now. So I'm gonna 96 00:03:32,889 --> 00:03:35,129 pick on dashboards because I feel like every 97 00:03:35,129 --> 00:03:36,969 single organization I've ever worked for in the 98 00:03:36,969 --> 00:03:38,490 past 20 years. I have billed at least 99 00:03:38,490 --> 00:03:40,973 1 or many dashboards there and where are 100 00:03:40,973 --> 00:03:43,917 you driving the user actual dashboards. And dashboards 101 00:03:43,917 --> 00:03:45,587 are 1... What I've done, like, I would 102 00:03:45,587 --> 00:03:47,838 say 25 percent of the design sprints I've 103 00:03:47,838 --> 00:03:49,995 done are on dashboards. And but what a 104 00:03:49,995 --> 00:03:52,073 lot of organizations are hoping to do is 105 00:03:52,073 --> 00:03:54,391 drive their users as a call to action 106 00:03:54,391 --> 00:03:55,510 when they get to that dashboard. 107 00:03:56,083 --> 00:03:58,077 And so most of the time what happens 108 00:03:58,077 --> 00:03:59,912 is with a 5 day design sprint, And 109 00:03:59,992 --> 00:04:01,507 I have run a number of design strengths 110 00:04:01,507 --> 00:04:02,565 where we've compared 111 00:04:02,943 --> 00:04:05,256 5 day versus 2 hours because this actually 112 00:04:05,256 --> 00:04:07,822 started off from an academic perspective, I wrote 113 00:04:07,822 --> 00:04:09,496 a white paper I compared kind of the 114 00:04:09,496 --> 00:04:11,272 2, see if you got to the same 115 00:04:11,409 --> 00:04:13,721 solution. Then from a dashboard standpoint, 116 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,134 from where a lot of organizations get caught 117 00:04:16,134 --> 00:04:17,895 up in in a 5 day process They 118 00:04:17,895 --> 00:04:20,535 go too big. They're trying to solve every 119 00:04:20,535 --> 00:04:23,509 user persona in that 1 setting, and then 120 00:04:23,509 --> 00:04:25,029 it ends up being really complex. 121 00:04:25,669 --> 00:04:27,589 With the 2 hour process that really allows 122 00:04:27,589 --> 00:04:29,430 you to chunk down the focus on the 123 00:04:29,430 --> 00:04:32,254 action and who's driving to the dashboard. So 124 00:04:32,391 --> 00:04:33,607 let's take an analyst 125 00:04:34,062 --> 00:04:36,290 versus an executive role. Those are gonna be 126 00:04:36,290 --> 00:04:37,459 2 different functions 127 00:04:37,817 --> 00:04:39,644 of who's going to the dashboard. In fact, 128 00:04:39,803 --> 00:04:41,630 the executive, if from a lot of the 129 00:04:41,630 --> 00:04:43,219 research. They're not gonna even gonna look at 130 00:04:43,219 --> 00:04:44,649 the dashboard. They're may gonna look at it 131 00:04:44,649 --> 00:04:45,975 once a year. They don't wanna 132 00:04:46,334 --> 00:04:48,411 log in to anything and and go there 133 00:04:48,411 --> 00:04:49,849 and and click on filter, 134 00:04:50,409 --> 00:04:52,246 whereas the analyst is gonna be in there 135 00:04:52,246 --> 00:04:54,259 every day using it all day every day 136 00:04:54,259 --> 00:04:56,740 for their role. So this is a great 137 00:04:56,740 --> 00:04:58,660 example of a 2 hour process allows you 138 00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:01,079 to bring a group, 15 to 20 stakeholders 139 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:04,890 together really idea and focus on a focus 140 00:05:04,890 --> 00:05:06,556 on the problem that you're having with the 141 00:05:06,556 --> 00:05:08,540 dashboard creation and come out with the solution 142 00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:10,231 in 2 hours, and that's been something 143 00:05:10,699 --> 00:05:12,540 I've been able to press on repeat multiple 144 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:15,100 times with organizations from that functionality standpoint. 145 00:05:16,379 --> 00:05:18,620 Okay. So... And and you did do the 146 00:05:18,620 --> 00:05:20,314 research. Right You said to started out. Kind 147 00:05:20,314 --> 00:05:21,989 of a an exercise look at. What can 148 00:05:21,989 --> 00:05:24,142 we accomplish in a 5 day design sprint? 149 00:05:24,381 --> 00:05:26,535 And could we do that less? Right? And 150 00:05:26,535 --> 00:05:28,050 it sounds like you ended up at the 151 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:30,935 2 hour point to really make some efficient 152 00:05:30,935 --> 00:05:32,924 use of that time. Yeah. I know I 153 00:05:32,924 --> 00:05:34,675 know you mentioned professor in your title 2, 154 00:05:34,834 --> 00:05:36,823 so I went after 2 master's degrees, so 155 00:05:36,982 --> 00:05:39,466 I mean, Yep. I really love studying and 156 00:05:39,466 --> 00:05:41,298 understanding and part of this. I mean, is 157 00:05:41,298 --> 00:05:41,798 complementary 158 00:05:42,333 --> 00:05:44,165 to the the 5 day process. Right? This 159 00:05:44,165 --> 00:05:45,598 is not meant to replace it. This is 160 00:05:45,598 --> 00:05:46,156 meant to say, 161 00:05:46,807 --> 00:05:47,124 Hey, 162 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:49,823 a lot of organizations don't have 5 days. 163 00:05:50,061 --> 00:05:51,648 They don't have the time. They don't have 164 00:05:51,648 --> 00:05:53,712 the budget or they don't have the team. 165 00:05:54,283 --> 00:05:55,554 I mean, if you look at the number 166 00:05:55,554 --> 00:05:56,770 of solar newer 167 00:05:57,144 --> 00:05:59,449 organizations that are popping up today, tell me 168 00:05:59,449 --> 00:06:01,516 how making use of 5 days, when you 169 00:06:01,516 --> 00:06:02,628 have a team of 1 is it gonna 170 00:06:02,628 --> 00:06:05,354 work for this... Process. So the adaptation to 171 00:06:05,354 --> 00:06:07,609 2 hours is really for all types of 172 00:06:07,667 --> 00:06:10,082 organizations whether you're enterprise or you're a solar 173 00:06:10,793 --> 00:06:12,703 where... So I'm able to bring in experts, 174 00:06:12,862 --> 00:06:14,453 and there's also a lot of third parties 175 00:06:14,453 --> 00:06:15,351 out there that'll 176 00:06:15,727 --> 00:06:16,227 supply 177 00:06:16,682 --> 00:06:18,671 users for you, like, user interview interviews or 178 00:06:18,671 --> 00:06:20,677 testing that you're able to work with, So 179 00:06:20,677 --> 00:06:22,272 that's what kinda makes it fun, and I 180 00:06:22,272 --> 00:06:23,628 like to talk about the academic part of 181 00:06:23,628 --> 00:06:25,621 it because I want everyone to understand that 182 00:06:25,621 --> 00:06:27,376 there is so much value in a 5 183 00:06:27,376 --> 00:06:29,050 day and a 2 hour process. 184 00:06:30,097 --> 00:06:32,477 Yeah. Absolutely. The... And 1 of the challenges 185 00:06:32,477 --> 00:06:35,571 with the 5 day sprint some... Organizations ran 186 00:06:35,571 --> 00:06:36,047 into our teams. 187 00:06:36,618 --> 00:06:38,210 A lot of energy and effort goes in 188 00:06:38,210 --> 00:06:40,200 that, right? Freeing up the team for 5 189 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,292 days is a big deal. And then afterwards, 190 00:06:43,145 --> 00:06:44,833 I don't... I I haven't seen any research 191 00:06:44,833 --> 00:06:46,189 to say what the percentage is if there's 192 00:06:46,189 --> 00:06:48,821 anything collected on this. But action isn't always 193 00:06:48,821 --> 00:06:50,815 taken. Right? We you spend those 5 days. 194 00:06:51,134 --> 00:06:52,649 Mh. And then we end up with something 195 00:06:52,649 --> 00:06:55,371 that sounds promising, but the there's not resources 196 00:06:55,371 --> 00:06:57,514 and time to now take action on what 197 00:06:57,514 --> 00:06:59,657 came out of that. So I like this 198 00:06:59,657 --> 00:07:01,641 idea of creating the these smaller chunks like, 199 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,005 there's what can we do in 2 hours 200 00:07:03,005 --> 00:07:05,226 and then put that actually implement it and 201 00:07:05,226 --> 00:07:07,447 make use of it? So we'd love for 202 00:07:07,447 --> 00:07:08,875 you to take us through kind of the... 203 00:07:09,049 --> 00:07:10,477 Framework for how this happened. 204 00:07:11,033 --> 00:07:13,652 Obviously, the details are in your book, and 205 00:07:13,890 --> 00:07:15,319 p, we'll have a link to that too, 206 00:07:15,399 --> 00:07:17,780 but solving problems in 2 hours is the 207 00:07:17,780 --> 00:07:19,787 framework as the title of the book, very 208 00:07:19,787 --> 00:07:21,540 clear title love that. But can you take 209 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:23,532 us through the the framework for how to 210 00:07:23,532 --> 00:07:25,307 actually do this? Where do we get started 211 00:07:25,539 --> 00:07:28,482 Yeah. So, ultimately, it's really parsing down. And 212 00:07:28,482 --> 00:07:30,391 in this concept really takes the best of 213 00:07:30,391 --> 00:07:32,936 both worlds of design thinking and design sprints. 214 00:07:33,095 --> 00:07:33,731 Right? It's not... 215 00:07:34,543 --> 00:07:35,820 Design transfer for for those who don't know. 216 00:07:35,980 --> 00:07:38,135 That was derived from design thinking. So we 217 00:07:38,135 --> 00:07:40,929 can't forget the days of Idea, Stanford design 218 00:07:40,929 --> 00:07:42,546 school. So ultimately, 219 00:07:43,178 --> 00:07:45,642 really taking in the mindset of thinking about 220 00:07:45,642 --> 00:07:47,312 the user first. It's really kind of at 221 00:07:47,312 --> 00:07:49,060 a high level broken down into 3 different 222 00:07:49,060 --> 00:07:52,081 areas. So your understanding who your user is, 223 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,846 like who you're solving the problem for, 224 00:07:54,801 --> 00:07:57,744 you're exploring the problem and then you're idea. 225 00:07:58,221 --> 00:08:00,386 And as part of that, by parsing it 226 00:08:00,386 --> 00:08:02,220 down into those 3 different elements. 227 00:08:02,778 --> 00:08:04,634 What really holds up a lot of 228 00:08:05,170 --> 00:08:09,092 organizations again with the longer design sprints, is 229 00:08:09,092 --> 00:08:11,326 really being able to understand the user. So 230 00:08:11,326 --> 00:08:12,841 a lot of the organizations that I work 231 00:08:12,841 --> 00:08:14,915 with, what I encourage whether you're running a 232 00:08:14,915 --> 00:08:16,909 2 hour or 5 day is know who 233 00:08:16,909 --> 00:08:19,399 you're solving the problem for. Like, It's something 234 00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:21,479 so simple that a lot of people just 235 00:08:21,479 --> 00:08:23,560 think they have this really great idea. It's 236 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,079 gonna go out there. It's gonna make millions 237 00:08:25,079 --> 00:08:27,160 of dollars and that's gonna be the win. 238 00:08:27,813 --> 00:08:29,805 And they really don't think about who they're 239 00:08:29,805 --> 00:08:31,479 solving it for. So, like, even just a 240 00:08:31,479 --> 00:08:33,551 couple weeks ago, I was working with a 241 00:08:33,551 --> 00:08:35,246 bunch of startup founders, and 242 00:08:35,637 --> 00:08:37,067 The brought problem to the table and I 243 00:08:37,067 --> 00:08:38,656 was like, alright. So tell me a little 244 00:08:38,656 --> 00:08:40,483 bit about... They weren't familiar with user personas 245 00:08:40,641 --> 00:08:42,151 I was, like, tell me who this product 246 00:08:42,151 --> 00:08:43,819 is for. Who's gonna be using this product 247 00:08:43,819 --> 00:08:44,851 and they're like, well, I don't know. 248 00:08:45,743 --> 00:08:47,178 I'm hoping to put the product out there, 249 00:08:47,338 --> 00:08:49,252 and then people will just, like, find it 250 00:08:49,252 --> 00:08:51,884 and they'll use it. And so when you 251 00:08:51,884 --> 00:08:54,118 think about that response, Right? I mean, inside 252 00:08:54,118 --> 00:08:56,047 my eyes are burning as I'm listening or 253 00:08:56,207 --> 00:08:57,803 I'm like, okay. Great. This is a great 254 00:08:57,803 --> 00:08:59,797 problem in itself. Let's solve that first of 255 00:08:59,797 --> 00:09:02,133 who is gonna use your product. So most 256 00:09:02,271 --> 00:09:03,878 organizations that are season, like, the 1 I 257 00:09:03,878 --> 00:09:06,502 worked for most that have product Ux and 258 00:09:06,502 --> 00:09:09,443 design teams. Already are gonna know who your 259 00:09:09,443 --> 00:09:11,113 user personas is, and that's kind of 1 260 00:09:11,113 --> 00:09:13,357 of the key differences of first and foremost, 261 00:09:13,516 --> 00:09:15,032 if you don't know who you're solving the 262 00:09:15,032 --> 00:09:15,431 problem for, 263 00:09:16,308 --> 00:09:17,105 that's part of that, 264 00:09:17,823 --> 00:09:20,535 understanding. So you're not just understanding who is 265 00:09:20,535 --> 00:09:22,231 using a product, You're understanding 266 00:09:22,542 --> 00:09:24,683 what challenges are they having? Forget your product, 267 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,824 What are the problems that they're facing in 268 00:09:26,824 --> 00:09:29,203 their day to day? And let's talk about 269 00:09:29,203 --> 00:09:30,808 a little bit of Ai. Some of the 270 00:09:30,808 --> 00:09:32,722 themes I've seen as of late is a 271 00:09:32,722 --> 00:09:35,296 theme of automation. A lot of challenges 272 00:09:35,753 --> 00:09:38,305 of, wanting to solve problems for users that 273 00:09:38,305 --> 00:09:40,394 are doing a lot of manual tasks in 274 00:09:40,394 --> 00:09:42,150 their day. It's taking up a lot of 275 00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:44,944 time. Maybe they're popping between screens. 276 00:09:45,503 --> 00:09:48,217 Maybe they are using their mobile device or 277 00:09:48,217 --> 00:09:51,105 not even on a desk top computer, maybe 278 00:09:51,105 --> 00:09:53,019 they're moving buildings while they're doing their different 279 00:09:53,019 --> 00:09:55,093 tasks. Those are the problems that you need 280 00:09:55,093 --> 00:09:57,805 to uncover of, let's take a step back 281 00:09:57,805 --> 00:10:00,449 and understand, with this first stage of a 282 00:10:00,449 --> 00:10:02,836 2 hour design sprint of who is the 283 00:10:02,836 --> 00:10:04,824 customer? Who are they? What are their problems? 284 00:10:04,983 --> 00:10:07,541 And, so that's really that first stage there, 285 00:10:08,017 --> 00:10:10,238 being able to understand, the value of who 286 00:10:10,238 --> 00:10:11,507 you're solving, the problem for. 287 00:10:12,856 --> 00:10:14,698 And from there, you're, being gone. Go ahead. 288 00:10:14,937 --> 00:10:16,846 Yeah. Just just to just underscore this, the... 289 00:10:17,403 --> 00:10:20,187 My background is is engineering, and I I 290 00:10:20,187 --> 00:10:20,639 remember 291 00:10:20,999 --> 00:10:23,394 being in a group where or lead guy 292 00:10:23,394 --> 00:10:25,469 who was absolutely brilliant, and maybe this worked 293 00:10:25,469 --> 00:10:26,906 well for him because he was absolutely brilliant. 294 00:10:27,305 --> 00:10:28,981 Would say, we'd never need to discuss a 295 00:10:28,981 --> 00:10:31,712 problem for more than minutes because the first 296 00:10:31,712 --> 00:10:33,390 solution you come across in the first 50 297 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:35,308 minutes is almost always the right 1. 298 00:10:36,187 --> 00:10:38,265 And... But that never sat well with me. 299 00:10:38,425 --> 00:10:40,594 Right? And I think there is a distinction 300 00:10:40,594 --> 00:10:41,493 here between 301 00:10:41,950 --> 00:10:45,140 engineering problems that might be appropriate that we're 302 00:10:45,140 --> 00:10:47,533 reflect on internally? Like, what is the right 303 00:10:47,533 --> 00:10:48,705 algorithm or data 304 00:10:49,064 --> 00:10:52,261 for some mechanism in a program versus actually 305 00:10:52,261 --> 00:10:54,578 knowing what... And with my... University professor had 306 00:10:54,578 --> 00:10:58,149 on when teams are generating some kind of 307 00:10:58,666 --> 00:11:01,370 innovation project and of course, I I always 308 00:11:01,370 --> 00:11:03,675 ask them to create a business model canvas 309 00:11:03,675 --> 00:11:05,663 that starts with. What was the customer segment? 310 00:11:06,473 --> 00:11:08,616 And the customer segments always pretty broad. It's 311 00:11:08,616 --> 00:11:10,124 like, no. We're gonna serve families. 312 00:11:11,077 --> 00:11:13,140 Okay? Are these families with young kids or 313 00:11:13,140 --> 00:11:15,618 these families with grown kids or or the 314 00:11:15,618 --> 00:11:17,451 the these families with single parent. 315 00:11:18,488 --> 00:11:20,401 There's a whole lot more detail here that 316 00:11:20,401 --> 00:11:22,554 we need to understand who is it we're 317 00:11:22,554 --> 00:11:23,725 actually serving. And so 318 00:11:24,161 --> 00:11:26,941 diving into a a clearer understanding among everyone 319 00:11:26,941 --> 00:11:29,640 on the team is really important because even 320 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,467 without that, we probably have different pictures of 321 00:11:31,467 --> 00:11:33,110 who the customer is with just kind of 322 00:11:33,229 --> 00:11:35,929 casual discussion. And so I appreciate you under 323 00:11:35,929 --> 00:11:37,995 understanding the ports of knowing who the customer 324 00:11:37,995 --> 00:11:39,822 is and what the challenges. I love that 325 00:11:39,822 --> 00:11:41,569 you said that too. So I I have 326 00:11:41,569 --> 00:11:44,293 run this process, not with just product teams, 327 00:11:44,532 --> 00:11:47,168 but I've also run with operations teams, engineering 328 00:11:47,168 --> 00:11:50,019 teams, even, like, teachers, schools, and 329 00:11:50,379 --> 00:11:51,820 you make me think when I run this 330 00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:53,740 with engineering teams, like, I married an engineer 331 00:11:53,740 --> 00:11:55,100 first of. So I have, like, all the 332 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:57,420 love for engineers. But every time I run 333 00:11:57,420 --> 00:11:59,514 a design for Got all engineers. They just 334 00:11:59,514 --> 00:12:01,034 wanna go straight to the solution. They're like, 335 00:12:01,115 --> 00:12:03,034 stop wasting my time. Like, I don't wanna 336 00:12:03,034 --> 00:12:05,595 talk about the customers like, let's talk about 337 00:12:05,595 --> 00:12:07,607 the solutions and I'll have to say. Okay. 338 00:12:07,846 --> 00:12:09,437 Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna we're 339 00:12:09,437 --> 00:12:11,027 gonna not talk. I'm gonna mute you. Now 340 00:12:11,187 --> 00:12:13,493 Kidding. But it... I think that's just, like, 341 00:12:13,652 --> 00:12:15,817 the nature of the mindset of an engineer 342 00:12:15,817 --> 00:12:17,808 right is, that is their role. Their role 343 00:12:17,808 --> 00:12:20,118 is to, like, solve the problem in solution. 344 00:12:20,675 --> 00:12:22,189 So it's kind of the first instinct. But 345 00:12:22,348 --> 00:12:24,354 I do think when you think about it 346 00:12:24,354 --> 00:12:26,105 in the differences of a 2 hour versus 347 00:12:26,105 --> 00:12:26,583 a 5 day. 348 00:12:27,379 --> 00:12:28,733 I just talked a little bit about the 349 00:12:28,733 --> 00:12:30,803 academic, no, this research started 5 years ago 350 00:12:30,803 --> 00:12:33,041 at this point, where I ran a number 351 00:12:33,041 --> 00:12:35,418 of problems with 5 day and a 2 352 00:12:35,418 --> 00:12:37,083 hour, and 80 percent of the time we 353 00:12:37,083 --> 00:12:38,851 came to the same solution. So 354 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:41,395 I think that Wow. When you think about 355 00:12:41,395 --> 00:12:42,912 what you just said there in the first 356 00:12:42,912 --> 00:12:43,470 15 minutes, 357 00:12:44,109 --> 00:12:45,626 right or wrong, you can agree with me 358 00:12:45,626 --> 00:12:46,903 or not agree with me, but 80 percent 359 00:12:46,903 --> 00:12:48,660 of the time in the test studies run 360 00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:50,850 of 5 day versus 2 hours we ran 361 00:12:51,307 --> 00:12:54,577 into almost the exact same solution. And so 362 00:12:54,736 --> 00:12:56,411 I think for me, if I'm gonna have... 363 00:12:56,650 --> 00:12:58,620 I've have so many problems I'm trying to 364 00:12:58,739 --> 00:13:01,528 solve every day. We have client requests. Every 365 00:13:01,528 --> 00:13:01,846 company, 366 00:13:02,484 --> 00:13:04,635 organization wants to continue to grow, solve more 367 00:13:04,635 --> 00:13:07,605 problems, release new features, Would you rather spend 368 00:13:07,605 --> 00:13:10,565 2 hours and solve 50 problems in a 369 00:13:10,565 --> 00:13:13,445 year or do 3 5 day design sprints 370 00:13:13,445 --> 00:13:15,856 and solve 3 problems. Right? So The intent 371 00:13:15,856 --> 00:13:18,565 is, I think a lot of organizations, we're 372 00:13:18,565 --> 00:13:20,477 really looking at the 5 day model and 373 00:13:20,477 --> 00:13:22,230 only doing it a couple times a year. 374 00:13:22,564 --> 00:13:24,238 What I'm saying is you should be doing 375 00:13:24,238 --> 00:13:24,716 it more. 376 00:13:25,354 --> 00:13:27,188 You should be doing it much more than 377 00:13:27,188 --> 00:13:29,580 you're doing it all the time. But organizations 378 00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:30,957 wouldn't really have the capability 379 00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:33,026 go run 55 day design sprints in the 380 00:13:33,026 --> 00:13:34,702 year. Right? Right. So that's where this 2 381 00:13:34,702 --> 00:13:35,660 hour design sprint comes in. 382 00:13:36,938 --> 00:13:39,253 That's Brilliant. And I appreciate knowing that the 383 00:13:39,253 --> 00:13:41,264 difference in your outcomes. They're are 80 set 384 00:13:41,264 --> 00:13:42,223 as a really good number. 385 00:13:43,102 --> 00:13:44,780 Okay. So so we're start. We have to 386 00:13:44,780 --> 00:13:47,338 have clear understanding of the customer what their 387 00:13:47,338 --> 00:13:49,256 challenges are and make sure we're grounded in 388 00:13:49,256 --> 00:13:49,895 that as a team. 389 00:13:51,185 --> 00:13:53,651 Yep. And next, you're probably familiar with the... 390 00:13:53,969 --> 00:13:56,197 How might we framework of, how might we 391 00:13:56,197 --> 00:13:57,253 frame a challenge 392 00:13:57,644 --> 00:14:00,457 And so that second stage is really exploring 393 00:14:00,595 --> 00:14:03,068 the problem a little bit more of rethinking 394 00:14:03,068 --> 00:14:04,285 how you would kind of 395 00:14:04,743 --> 00:14:07,295 reframe that into a question and really exploring 396 00:14:07,295 --> 00:14:09,694 the nature of of how the problem got 397 00:14:09,694 --> 00:14:12,237 there. So again, 1 of the key things 398 00:14:12,237 --> 00:14:14,701 like, I just wanna talk about, 1 of 399 00:14:14,701 --> 00:14:16,863 the biggest values of a design spread isn't 400 00:14:16,863 --> 00:14:18,776 something that is always said. Right? Of course, 401 00:14:19,016 --> 00:14:20,132 I say in the book, but it... Like, 402 00:14:20,291 --> 00:14:21,726 when you think about it 2 hour design 403 00:14:21,726 --> 00:14:23,401 sprint, it's not always about the customer or 404 00:14:23,401 --> 00:14:25,210 the problem in the solution. But 405 00:14:25,568 --> 00:14:28,676 about the stakeholders working together. And a lot 406 00:14:28,676 --> 00:14:30,987 of what I see with organizations I work 407 00:14:30,987 --> 00:14:32,820 with is they're not talking to each other, 408 00:14:33,154 --> 00:14:34,910 they're... And therefore, they're not on the same 409 00:14:34,910 --> 00:14:38,442 page, especially with the Covid pandemic, forcing 410 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:40,597 organizations on a lockdown, 411 00:14:41,069 --> 00:14:42,987 some in a hybrid environment, some I'm still 412 00:14:42,987 --> 00:14:44,586 remote. A majority of my team, I may... 413 00:14:44,826 --> 00:14:46,424 I've mentioned I manage product Ux and design. 414 00:14:46,584 --> 00:14:48,502 A majority of my team is still remote 415 00:14:48,502 --> 00:14:51,074 for most of their entire work year. We 416 00:14:51,074 --> 00:14:53,631 have once a month where everyone is required 417 00:14:53,631 --> 00:14:54,910 to come in for a week type of 418 00:14:54,910 --> 00:14:55,969 mindset. And so 419 00:14:56,348 --> 00:14:58,106 I think with that type of mindset knowing 420 00:14:58,106 --> 00:15:00,196 every organization is doing something a little different. 421 00:15:00,355 --> 00:15:02,104 If you're not getting groups of people together, 422 00:15:02,343 --> 00:15:03,456 they're just simply not talking. 423 00:15:04,172 --> 00:15:06,819 And the 2 hour design sprint, when you're 424 00:15:07,035 --> 00:15:09,554 rethinking and and challenging how you can solve 425 00:15:09,754 --> 00:15:11,909 problems really allows you to get that group 426 00:15:11,909 --> 00:15:14,383 together for 2 hours and 2 hours isn't 427 00:15:14,383 --> 00:15:16,617 a big time commitment. So that's Right. Just 428 00:15:16,617 --> 00:15:19,021 1 value I wanna like, point out during 429 00:15:19,021 --> 00:15:21,962 this process, it's not just about talking about 430 00:15:21,962 --> 00:15:24,370 the problems, but getting that group of stakeholders 431 00:15:24,427 --> 00:15:26,907 together to talk about it together, that's the 432 00:15:26,907 --> 00:15:27,861 value. So... 433 00:15:28,577 --> 00:15:31,123 Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. People who can fit that 434 00:15:31,123 --> 00:15:33,125 into their schedules. This is just like extended 435 00:15:33,125 --> 00:15:35,029 meeting where we're actually trying to get a 436 00:15:35,029 --> 00:15:35,585 good outcome. 437 00:15:36,299 --> 00:15:38,124 Right. And that's where the second stage, The 438 00:15:38,124 --> 00:15:40,028 third stage, I could talk Dave about the 439 00:15:40,028 --> 00:15:42,193 third stage because I as a product practitioner, 440 00:15:42,353 --> 00:15:43,951 right, I love idea dating, and I love 441 00:15:43,951 --> 00:15:45,869 coming up with solutions. At the third stage, 442 00:15:46,028 --> 00:15:47,706 a lot of times I get asked when 443 00:15:47,866 --> 00:15:49,279 I'll come with organizations that have run 444 00:15:49,957 --> 00:15:51,712 design sprints in the past and broaden firms 445 00:15:51,712 --> 00:15:53,466 is, like, there's no way we're gonna be 446 00:15:53,466 --> 00:15:55,619 able to to solution. And usually what ends 447 00:15:55,619 --> 00:15:57,054 up happening. There's a lot of shock and 448 00:15:57,054 --> 00:15:59,931 awe sometimes during a 2 hour design sprint 449 00:15:59,931 --> 00:16:01,834 when I come in and I moderate because 450 00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:02,151 they're like, 451 00:16:02,864 --> 00:16:04,766 oh, my gosh. Like, I did not think 452 00:16:04,766 --> 00:16:06,009 we were gonna, like, come up 453 00:16:06,529 --> 00:16:08,450 with this these solutions like in in a 454 00:16:08,450 --> 00:16:10,370 couple hours. And it's not... You're really deciding 455 00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:10,850 as a team, 456 00:16:12,049 --> 00:16:13,649 what your solution you're gonna move forward with. 457 00:16:13,809 --> 00:16:15,579 But that's kind of the shock all on 458 00:16:15,579 --> 00:16:17,889 this idea asian, mean, again, some of the 459 00:16:17,889 --> 00:16:20,439 biggest benefits were the cause of the Covid 460 00:16:20,439 --> 00:16:22,921 19 pandemic. So I usually like to run 461 00:16:22,921 --> 00:16:24,907 these at a collaborative tool. There's been a 462 00:16:24,907 --> 00:16:26,416 lot of change in collaborative tools, but I 463 00:16:26,416 --> 00:16:27,925 have migrated my whole team to fig my 464 00:16:27,925 --> 00:16:30,094 years ago, and so I use Fig jam 465 00:16:30,644 --> 00:16:32,504 most of the time, I also use Mir 466 00:16:32,644 --> 00:16:36,264 and mural, and depending on the organization, but 467 00:16:36,565 --> 00:16:37,924 some of the value there is also in 468 00:16:37,924 --> 00:16:40,418 that collaborative tool. So The reason why you're 469 00:16:40,418 --> 00:16:42,894 able to so quickly is you're spending 2 470 00:16:42,894 --> 00:16:45,451 hours together looking immediately in a tool of 471 00:16:45,451 --> 00:16:47,861 what everyone is doing. Even if we're in 472 00:16:47,861 --> 00:16:51,371 person together, we're still using a collaborative tool, 473 00:16:51,531 --> 00:16:52,967 and we in... If you think about the 474 00:16:52,967 --> 00:16:53,740 difference of 475 00:16:54,178 --> 00:16:56,250 walking in around a room with a old 476 00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:58,003 school design sprint where you're writing on post 477 00:16:58,003 --> 00:17:00,075 it notes. You're trying to understands everyone hand... 478 00:17:00,474 --> 00:17:01,191 Everyone's handwriting. 479 00:17:01,923 --> 00:17:04,947 That information is coming at you slower than 480 00:17:04,947 --> 00:17:07,096 being in a collaborative tool where you're absorbing 481 00:17:07,096 --> 00:17:09,825 it as people are typing. You're constantly thinking 482 00:17:10,121 --> 00:17:13,478 and innovating. So this is really efficiency in 483 00:17:13,478 --> 00:17:15,785 itself of, you can be more efficient by 484 00:17:15,785 --> 00:17:17,933 using this process and solving problems more to... 485 00:17:18,172 --> 00:17:20,893 More quickly as an organization. Right? So When 486 00:17:20,893 --> 00:17:23,126 you get to this idea... Idea stage, this 487 00:17:23,126 --> 00:17:23,765 third stage, 488 00:17:24,642 --> 00:17:27,114 this is where the magic happens. Right? You've 489 00:17:27,114 --> 00:17:29,268 now thought about the customer, you've thought about 490 00:17:29,268 --> 00:17:31,377 the problem as a group and you're idea 491 00:17:31,434 --> 00:17:33,264 and you're pitching on your concept as a 492 00:17:33,264 --> 00:17:35,730 group. And as a group, you're voting on 493 00:17:35,730 --> 00:17:38,674 what you think, what solution would solve the 494 00:17:38,674 --> 00:17:40,681 problem the best. For the customer for the 495 00:17:40,681 --> 00:17:42,538 problem that you have chosen. And 496 00:17:42,915 --> 00:17:46,027 so again, in statistically, 70 to 80 percent 497 00:17:46,027 --> 00:17:46,585 of the time, 498 00:17:47,635 --> 00:17:49,385 you are going to come out with a 499 00:17:49,385 --> 00:17:51,873 successful solution that you could move forward. And 500 00:17:52,089 --> 00:17:53,838 I think 1 of the key differentiator is 501 00:17:53,838 --> 00:17:55,924 a 5 day design sprint is With the 502 00:17:55,924 --> 00:17:58,484 2 hour design sprint, you were deciding at 503 00:17:58,484 --> 00:18:00,085 the end of the 2 hour design sprint, 504 00:18:00,404 --> 00:18:03,296 whether you wanna move forward to test and 505 00:18:03,296 --> 00:18:03,534 prototyping, 506 00:18:04,171 --> 00:18:06,715 where a 5 day design sprint, no matter 507 00:18:06,715 --> 00:18:08,544 if everyone in the group is not on 508 00:18:08,544 --> 00:18:10,691 board with that, you are automatically bought in 509 00:18:10,691 --> 00:18:12,361 to test the prototyping and testing. 510 00:18:13,095 --> 00:18:15,515 And before I had parse down 511 00:18:15,894 --> 00:18:18,455 design sprints to 2 days, 1 day, 4 512 00:18:18,455 --> 00:18:19,815 hours, 3 hours, 2 hours, 513 00:18:20,467 --> 00:18:22,851 over the years, I had a number of 514 00:18:22,851 --> 00:18:24,918 prototypes where we brought into the customer And 515 00:18:24,918 --> 00:18:27,461 like, this is this is horrible, like, no. 516 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:29,622 You're not hitting the market at all. And 517 00:18:29,622 --> 00:18:31,451 this is when we brought in really expensive 518 00:18:31,451 --> 00:18:33,597 firms to come in and run this process. 519 00:18:33,756 --> 00:18:35,187 Right? I mean, I wasn't running as the 520 00:18:35,187 --> 00:18:37,670 moderator at this point years ago. So So 521 00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:39,109 I think that's something to keep in mind, 522 00:18:39,509 --> 00:18:42,150 for you're saving time and money by getting 523 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:45,109 that iterative feedback earlier before committing to final, 524 00:18:45,589 --> 00:18:46,684 prototype and testing 525 00:18:47,043 --> 00:18:49,513 And for most organizations that have invested in 526 00:18:49,513 --> 00:18:52,221 product, user experience and design, being able to 527 00:18:52,221 --> 00:18:55,048 take something when you have a design system 528 00:18:55,107 --> 00:18:56,623 is so much quicker these days. I mean, 529 00:18:56,783 --> 00:18:57,762 look how rapidly 530 00:18:58,140 --> 00:19:00,056 prototypes can be built these days. I mean, 531 00:19:00,136 --> 00:19:02,211 even as a product practitioner, I can go 532 00:19:02,211 --> 00:19:04,539 build 1 in a couple hours, let alone 533 00:19:04,539 --> 00:19:06,134 my designers that can do it even quicker. 534 00:19:06,453 --> 00:19:06,693 So... 535 00:19:08,048 --> 00:19:09,803 K. Very good. So step 3 here is 536 00:19:09,803 --> 00:19:12,036 really the idea ideology part where we're trying 537 00:19:12,036 --> 00:19:12,410 to 538 00:19:12,846 --> 00:19:15,621 take that... Well, back up there. Are understanding 539 00:19:15,621 --> 00:19:17,762 of the customer who are actually serving the 540 00:19:17,762 --> 00:19:19,824 understanding of of the problem now, how might 541 00:19:19,824 --> 00:19:22,548 we solve something for the the that customer, 542 00:19:22,867 --> 00:19:24,622 and now idea idea 80 on possible solutions. 543 00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:27,014 And you're using design tools in real time. 544 00:19:27,254 --> 00:19:29,407 You said whether you're in person with, I 545 00:19:29,407 --> 00:19:31,656 guess, people on tablets or laptops right working 546 00:19:31,656 --> 00:19:33,012 together on this. Yep. So we can kinda 547 00:19:33,012 --> 00:19:35,326 see what's evolving or that easily works remotely. 548 00:19:35,805 --> 00:19:37,082 And you said Mer is 1 of the 549 00:19:37,082 --> 00:19:38,929 tools you'd like to use And for listeners 550 00:19:38,929 --> 00:19:40,304 that I don't know you might want to 551 00:19:40,361 --> 00:19:42,111 share us more... That... That's 1 that I 552 00:19:42,111 --> 00:19:43,384 do use. I to give it as kinda 553 00:19:43,384 --> 00:19:45,029 just a general whiteboard that you can put 554 00:19:45,149 --> 00:19:48,102 all kinds of templates on. And Fig more 555 00:19:48,102 --> 00:19:49,618 for my understanding I have actually used a 556 00:19:49,618 --> 00:19:51,794 bunch more of a user interface 557 00:19:52,332 --> 00:19:54,342 design type tool. How do you use those? 558 00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:57,854 Yeah. So there's Fig then there's Fig jam. 559 00:19:58,173 --> 00:20:00,488 So... And now they have 2 separate license 560 00:20:00,488 --> 00:20:02,656 models for it. So Fig is really where 561 00:20:02,656 --> 00:20:05,445 your design and prototyping are going on, your 562 00:20:05,445 --> 00:20:07,835 design system, and then fig jam is a 563 00:20:07,835 --> 00:20:10,404 sense just like Mir, When I used vision 564 00:20:10,404 --> 00:20:12,484 for years, which would mh. Obviously, they're have 565 00:20:12,484 --> 00:20:14,805 gone. So... But, ultimately, I'm and I'll be 566 00:20:14,805 --> 00:20:17,218 honest, like, I I love Fig jim like, 567 00:20:17,297 --> 00:20:19,996 a little more than mir and mural, but 568 00:20:20,154 --> 00:20:22,456 I use all of them. But they're part 569 00:20:22,456 --> 00:20:24,123 of like, the fig jam, like, fig jam. 570 00:20:24,934 --> 00:20:26,850 Allows you to continue investing. I think because 571 00:20:26,929 --> 00:20:29,005 I'm in it every day anyways for work. 572 00:20:29,165 --> 00:20:31,001 I'm constantly. It's like outlook at this point. 573 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,236 Right? You're constantly using it every day and 574 00:20:33,236 --> 00:20:34,929 you're used to it, you, everything about it. 575 00:20:35,088 --> 00:20:36,767 So but either way I mean, it could 576 00:20:36,767 --> 00:20:38,365 be any tool, and, in fact, I mean, 577 00:20:38,605 --> 00:20:41,242 I have... If for those that aren't wanting 578 00:20:41,242 --> 00:20:43,640 to use collaborative tools, this process can still 579 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,209 be on in the old school way. But 580 00:20:46,289 --> 00:20:48,923 I think that is a inherent value of 581 00:20:48,923 --> 00:20:50,200 being in the age that we're in the 582 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,325 technology age. Right, of being able have these 583 00:20:53,325 --> 00:20:56,185 advanced technologies to help us. So... Right. Like 584 00:20:56,185 --> 00:20:58,012 my old school is a whiteboard. Like I 585 00:20:58,012 --> 00:20:59,442 get a lot of value of a out 586 00:20:59,442 --> 00:21:01,603 of a whiteboard if we're meeting together. But 587 00:21:01,603 --> 00:21:02,981 then you have to translate 588 00:21:03,358 --> 00:21:05,272 anything that's on the whiteboard. Right into some 589 00:21:05,272 --> 00:21:07,027 kind of artifact that's easier for the team 590 00:21:07,027 --> 00:21:08,941 that's an extra step. But if you can 591 00:21:08,941 --> 00:21:10,536 just do it as part of the process, 592 00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:13,422 and have an easy takeaway for everyone to, 593 00:21:13,502 --> 00:21:15,575 you know, point to ensure that works really 594 00:21:15,575 --> 00:21:15,734 well. 595 00:21:16,612 --> 00:21:19,403 Okay. That's great. So that's kinda what happens 596 00:21:19,403 --> 00:21:21,493 in a design right here. Right? The 2 597 00:21:21,493 --> 00:21:24,770 hour version. Clear understanding the customer, clear understanding 598 00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:27,967 the problem, and then idea together on on 599 00:21:27,967 --> 00:21:29,725 potential solutions for that. Right? What do you 600 00:21:29,725 --> 00:21:32,213 see takes place after design Sprint. Yeah. And 601 00:21:32,213 --> 00:21:33,808 you touched on this a little bit earlier 602 00:21:33,808 --> 00:21:35,881 of, that's 1 of the biggest challenges right, 603 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,513 of any design sprint type is that hand 604 00:21:38,513 --> 00:21:39,230 off afterwards. 605 00:21:39,644 --> 00:21:41,715 And, I, a hundred percent accrued that in 606 00:21:41,715 --> 00:21:42,772 when we talk about, 607 00:21:43,627 --> 00:21:46,256 the failure rate that can happen whether you're 608 00:21:46,256 --> 00:21:47,928 running a 5 day or 2 hour, that's 609 00:21:47,928 --> 00:21:48,859 something to kind of 610 00:21:49,377 --> 00:21:50,332 keep in mind as well. 611 00:21:51,525 --> 00:21:54,071 So I think that for the most part, 612 00:21:54,469 --> 00:21:56,936 that when you have a process, like a 613 00:21:56,936 --> 00:21:57,971 2 hour design sprint, 614 00:21:58,625 --> 00:22:01,184 the intention is that you're able to do 615 00:22:01,184 --> 00:22:03,684 a hand and work on it immediately. So 616 00:22:04,065 --> 00:22:06,039 because we're running so many a year at 617 00:22:06,159 --> 00:22:08,157 T pay. When we run a 2 hour 618 00:22:08,157 --> 00:22:09,755 design sprint, it goes right into a user 619 00:22:09,755 --> 00:22:11,193 story and on the backlog for our team. 620 00:22:11,352 --> 00:22:13,110 Like, it it has worked in that quickly. 621 00:22:13,842 --> 00:22:15,904 And that is something that happens with a 622 00:22:15,904 --> 00:22:18,364 lot of organizations as well. So when you 623 00:22:18,364 --> 00:22:20,347 already have really well run teams, 624 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,799 we have over 20 engineering teams across the 625 00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:24,700 globe, and 626 00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:25,900 it's a really, 627 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:28,359 well run product and technology shop. So when 628 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:29,640 you have that fluidity, 629 00:22:30,295 --> 00:22:32,215 across your teams, you can bring those in 630 00:22:32,215 --> 00:22:34,455 immediately, and that's the huge... The biggest value. 631 00:22:34,695 --> 00:22:34,855 Right? 632 00:22:35,495 --> 00:22:38,463 But when you have don't have that support. 633 00:22:38,622 --> 00:22:40,372 Maybe you don't have those teams. You don't 634 00:22:40,372 --> 00:22:41,167 have the resources. 635 00:22:41,645 --> 00:22:43,179 Maybe you are a smaller 636 00:22:43,554 --> 00:22:43,792 organization. 637 00:22:44,523 --> 00:22:45,000 And 638 00:22:45,397 --> 00:22:47,861 that's where the hand becomes a little more 639 00:22:47,861 --> 00:22:50,563 tricky. So who owns the hand? Who is 640 00:22:50,563 --> 00:22:52,334 going to be the 1 that's setting up 641 00:22:52,391 --> 00:22:54,720 meetings with the the customer to validate the 642 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:55,220 prototype. 643 00:22:55,679 --> 00:22:57,919 That's really the trick piece is who owns 644 00:22:57,919 --> 00:23:00,399 the hand of every item and who's responsible 645 00:23:00,399 --> 00:23:01,200 for those actions. 646 00:23:01,931 --> 00:23:02,431 And 647 00:23:02,886 --> 00:23:04,556 oftentimes, so if you don't... If you aren't 648 00:23:04,556 --> 00:23:05,056 running 649 00:23:05,431 --> 00:23:08,237 Ux internally. It's surprising a lot of organizations 650 00:23:08,532 --> 00:23:11,246 don't have Ux shops today. And before the 651 00:23:11,325 --> 00:23:13,545 Covid 19 pandemic, Nelson Norman had come out 652 00:23:13,545 --> 00:23:16,820 the report that said, they expected the, user 653 00:23:16,954 --> 00:23:17,454 experience 654 00:23:17,842 --> 00:23:20,092 and research industry to really 655 00:23:20,785 --> 00:23:23,092 explode by 50 x from a role standpoint. 656 00:23:23,251 --> 00:23:25,898 And I'd love to see the adjusted numbers 657 00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:27,890 with the Covid pandemic, but I I do 658 00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:29,490 not think that's gonna be the case anymore, 659 00:23:29,809 --> 00:23:31,890 especially because that was before chat Gp had 660 00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:34,049 come out. And right now, I think what 661 00:23:34,049 --> 00:23:36,384 everyone's trying to do in product user experience 662 00:23:36,384 --> 00:23:38,325 design is figure out how can Ai 663 00:23:38,785 --> 00:23:39,285 compliment? 664 00:23:39,744 --> 00:23:41,184 How could it used in your role but 665 00:23:41,184 --> 00:23:43,025 not solve your role. Right? I mean, I 666 00:23:43,025 --> 00:23:45,426 think a lot of organizations are looking at 667 00:23:45,426 --> 00:23:47,334 it that way of... Yes, You could tell 668 00:23:47,413 --> 00:23:49,480 Chat to create a user persona for you, 669 00:23:49,639 --> 00:23:50,990 but you still have to go validate it. 670 00:23:51,244 --> 00:23:53,079 But doesn't cite any resources. You don't really 671 00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:54,195 know where it came up with the data. 672 00:23:54,594 --> 00:23:57,146 And generally, it's pretty accurate, but it's not 673 00:23:57,146 --> 00:23:58,981 your data. You didn't you didn't write it. 674 00:23:59,220 --> 00:24:00,975 So that's something that I think we have 675 00:24:00,975 --> 00:24:02,825 to kind of keep in mind of what's 676 00:24:02,825 --> 00:24:04,283 the impact of 677 00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:06,655 automation and how can that help the hand 678 00:24:06,655 --> 00:24:08,650 off too? I I had a question asked 679 00:24:08,650 --> 00:24:10,413 me when I was running a design sprint 680 00:24:10,413 --> 00:24:11,047 last week of, 681 00:24:11,999 --> 00:24:13,268 why do I need to do this process? 682 00:24:13,506 --> 00:24:15,275 I can just ask chat Gp 683 00:24:15,648 --> 00:24:17,648 to solve the problem for me? And they're... 684 00:24:17,807 --> 00:24:19,320 They're were kinda saying it cheek. And I 685 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,436 was like, okay. Let's throw it in there. 686 00:24:20,595 --> 00:24:22,109 Let's see what it says. And... But we 687 00:24:22,109 --> 00:24:22,427 asked chat. 688 00:24:23,224 --> 00:24:24,914 I know they had a... I'd use adoption 689 00:24:24,914 --> 00:24:26,914 problem. So we ran a 2 hour design 690 00:24:26,914 --> 00:24:29,474 sprint on how to increase user adoption for 691 00:24:29,474 --> 00:24:32,034 a subset of their users that were not 692 00:24:32,034 --> 00:24:33,130 interacting on mobile device 693 00:24:34,049 --> 00:24:36,049 And I won't call out which generation this 694 00:24:36,049 --> 00:24:37,730 was, but we could probably narrow down. Who 695 00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:39,569 doesn't like using mobile devices pretty easily. 696 00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:43,181 And ultimately, ask Chat And chat came up 697 00:24:43,181 --> 00:24:44,872 with a bunch of items. And so we 698 00:24:45,245 --> 00:24:48,048 ran the 2 hour design and we compared 699 00:24:48,342 --> 00:24:48,842 our 700 00:24:49,613 --> 00:24:52,049 solution options to what Chat Gp had. And 701 00:24:52,249 --> 00:24:53,608 It would have been really interesting if they 702 00:24:53,608 --> 00:24:55,765 were, like, exactly the same. But here's the 703 00:24:55,765 --> 00:24:58,242 reality is chat Gp doesn't know your product. 704 00:24:58,402 --> 00:25:00,573 They don't know your users. Right. You have 705 00:25:00,573 --> 00:25:02,009 to kind of use what you get with 706 00:25:02,009 --> 00:25:04,481 a grain of salt with that. So... Yeah. 707 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,475 Yeah. We're certainly not at the point where 708 00:25:06,475 --> 00:25:08,868 chat Gp is creating better patterns for us 709 00:25:08,868 --> 00:25:10,039 than we we can 710 00:25:10,399 --> 00:25:12,716 gain from our own research and insights of 711 00:25:12,716 --> 00:25:15,273 of customers. So maybe someday, but then I 712 00:25:15,273 --> 00:25:16,792 don't know what we'll all do. So... Exactly. 713 00:25:17,031 --> 00:25:18,310 I'm was just curious about the cadence of 714 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:20,792 this, if you're doing 50 through our design 715 00:25:20,792 --> 00:25:23,336 for a year, do you plan on 1 716 00:25:23,336 --> 00:25:26,199 a week and are you looking for significant 717 00:25:26,199 --> 00:25:28,289 problems like the, you know, you the 718 00:25:28,679 --> 00:25:31,720 user access on on this particular classes feature 719 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,799 is really low. So are you looking... Do 720 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:35,819 you just keep these basically in the calendar 721 00:25:35,973 --> 00:25:37,876 and then be looking for a significant problem 722 00:25:37,876 --> 00:25:39,937 each week that makes sense to bring to 723 00:25:39,937 --> 00:25:41,681 it as Is sprint. Yeah. That's a really 724 00:25:41,681 --> 00:25:43,529 great question. So so I 725 00:25:43,917 --> 00:25:44,553 sit over. 726 00:25:45,109 --> 00:25:46,778 We we have around... Let's see. We have 727 00:25:46,778 --> 00:25:48,605 around 30 to 40 in terms of, like, 728 00:25:48,685 --> 00:25:50,274 a team of, like, product reps and design. 729 00:25:50,433 --> 00:25:50,933 So 730 00:25:51,323 --> 00:25:52,998 lot of these design brands. Like, I... I'm 731 00:25:52,998 --> 00:25:56,051 probably at this point running, like, maybe 4 732 00:25:56,667 --> 00:25:58,183 7 design sprints a year and the rest 733 00:25:58,183 --> 00:25:59,459 of it's being run by the rest of 734 00:25:59,459 --> 00:26:00,950 the team. And that's 1 of the beauties 735 00:26:01,069 --> 00:26:02,897 of when the 5 day design sprint, when 736 00:26:02,897 --> 00:26:05,202 the book came out, a lot of organizations 737 00:26:05,202 --> 00:26:07,031 hired third parties to come in and run 738 00:26:07,031 --> 00:26:09,989 those. And with this process with the 2 739 00:26:09,989 --> 00:26:12,138 hour process, that is meant for anyone at 740 00:26:12,138 --> 00:26:14,208 the org to run it as the moderator. 741 00:26:14,367 --> 00:26:16,676 So you don't need a third party. In 742 00:26:16,676 --> 00:26:19,650 fact, I recommend a subject matter expert run 743 00:26:19,650 --> 00:26:21,570 a 2 hour design sprint. But I found 744 00:26:21,570 --> 00:26:23,490 a lot of failure points bringing in third 745 00:26:23,490 --> 00:26:25,809 parties that know nothing about your industry, your 746 00:26:25,809 --> 00:26:28,553 clients to come in and make a recommendation 747 00:26:28,848 --> 00:26:31,073 for me on my business problems. That never 748 00:26:31,073 --> 00:26:33,059 made sense to me. So that's really the 749 00:26:33,059 --> 00:26:34,808 intent is to bring in a subject matter 750 00:26:34,808 --> 00:26:37,460 expert. To run this process for you and 751 00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:39,700 with that, all of my product managers, 752 00:26:40,099 --> 00:26:41,619 designers, Ux researchers, and in fact, 753 00:26:42,259 --> 00:26:44,339 Now folks and marketing and operations are trained 754 00:26:44,339 --> 00:26:46,426 on this us and they are able to 755 00:26:46,426 --> 00:26:48,892 go implement it whenever they want. And every 756 00:26:48,892 --> 00:26:50,642 now and then they'll just, like, tell me, 757 00:26:50,721 --> 00:26:52,406 like, hey. I ran this and here's our 758 00:26:52,406 --> 00:26:53,917 results? Like, what do I do next? You 759 00:26:53,917 --> 00:26:55,985 know, you asked on the action part. Right? 760 00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:58,370 And that really is the number 1 thing 761 00:26:58,370 --> 00:26:58,870 of, 762 00:26:59,245 --> 00:27:01,392 okay. How do I take the solution we 763 00:27:01,392 --> 00:27:03,962 have and actually go run with it and 764 00:27:03,962 --> 00:27:05,320 execute it. When you're not in product and 765 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,537 technology because I think this process is morph 766 00:27:08,756 --> 00:27:11,086 outside of the world product and technology a 767 00:27:11,086 --> 00:27:13,480 bit, and that's something... That's a consideration. Right? 768 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,236 Those steps are gonna be a little different, 769 00:27:15,555 --> 00:27:18,283 but you're not gonna have someone that gonna 770 00:27:18,283 --> 00:27:20,436 go an engineer to go work on the 771 00:27:20,436 --> 00:27:21,792 solution you have. You need to go solve 772 00:27:21,792 --> 00:27:23,627 it who's gonna work on that solution for 773 00:27:23,627 --> 00:27:24,345 you. Right. 774 00:27:25,302 --> 00:27:27,136 Yep. Okay. Very good. Yeah. So it sounds 775 00:27:27,136 --> 00:27:29,326 like this is been spread out to the 776 00:27:29,384 --> 00:27:31,218 organization, People been empowered. They can do their 777 00:27:31,218 --> 00:27:32,972 own to hour design sprints, which is probably 778 00:27:32,972 --> 00:27:34,885 great for you to see. Right? I'll, this 779 00:27:34,885 --> 00:27:37,132 would be put do snow organization. But they're 780 00:27:37,132 --> 00:27:39,464 are colleague design sprints as they need to 781 00:27:39,521 --> 00:27:41,194 as they Yeah run. It's ad hoc. Hey. 782 00:27:41,433 --> 00:27:42,946 Ad hoc. It's not a plan to set 783 00:27:42,946 --> 00:27:44,937 weekly because 2 hours that's easy to do. 784 00:27:45,589 --> 00:27:46,939 Yeah. But, also I mean, you have to 785 00:27:46,939 --> 00:27:48,924 think the stakeholder mix. Right? So every 2 786 00:27:48,924 --> 00:27:51,466 hour design Sprint has its own unique stakeholder 787 00:27:51,466 --> 00:27:54,166 mix. And so. There wouldn't really be way 788 00:27:54,166 --> 00:27:55,934 inherent way to do that. And I also 789 00:27:55,934 --> 00:27:57,212 think you would kinda have a little bit 790 00:27:57,212 --> 00:28:00,110 of design Sprint fatigue. I mean, I know 791 00:28:00,249 --> 00:28:02,247 back when I would run, like, a multi 792 00:28:02,247 --> 00:28:04,165 day design sprint, like, most people would take, 793 00:28:04,325 --> 00:28:06,171 like, pee... Even like a 3 day 1. 794 00:28:06,409 --> 00:28:08,080 The last 3 day designs for I ran 795 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,865 before the pandemic, Like, everyone took Pto, like, 796 00:28:11,024 --> 00:28:12,471 the last 2 days because they were just 797 00:28:12,471 --> 00:28:14,223 done the brains were referring. Is a lot. 798 00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:15,258 Yeah. 799 00:28:16,133 --> 00:28:16,293 Excellent. 800 00:28:17,168 --> 00:28:19,159 Very good. And you mentioned at the very 801 00:28:19,159 --> 00:28:21,109 beginning of of this the connection to 802 00:28:21,568 --> 00:28:24,444 and design thinking. And I remember for anyone 803 00:28:24,444 --> 00:28:25,883 that wants to go find this on Youtube 804 00:28:25,883 --> 00:28:26,762 if you look up 805 00:28:27,641 --> 00:28:29,893 Shopping cart. When when I first saw this 806 00:28:29,893 --> 00:28:32,930 video of them designing a a new shopping 807 00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:34,768 cart in a week for a grocery store. 808 00:28:35,407 --> 00:28:36,685 That that was the challenge that were given 809 00:28:36,685 --> 00:28:38,778 by a news program. Thought, wow. The the... 810 00:28:38,938 --> 00:28:40,775 This is how innovation happens. Right? This is 811 00:28:40,775 --> 00:28:43,193 how you understand your customer and the different 812 00:28:43,332 --> 00:28:46,065 stakeholders in that customer group. And how you 813 00:28:46,065 --> 00:28:48,625 go through the work together to, dive into 814 00:28:48,625 --> 00:28:50,224 the problem and then the idea idea about 815 00:28:50,224 --> 00:28:52,384 possible solutions. So I think that illustrates it 816 00:28:52,384 --> 00:28:55,137 well. And you have condensed this for solving 817 00:28:55,356 --> 00:28:57,513 complex problems in a 2 hours and love 818 00:28:57,513 --> 00:28:58,392 that you brought this to us. 819 00:28:59,271 --> 00:29:01,044 We do, like innovation quotes and I asked 820 00:29:01,044 --> 00:29:02,640 you to bring 1 for us as well. 821 00:29:03,438 --> 00:29:04,635 What is that? And what does it mean 822 00:29:04,635 --> 00:29:07,130 to you? Yeah. So when I think about 823 00:29:08,466 --> 00:29:11,440 innovation, there's a really great quote by Albert 824 00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,000 Einstein that... Really, like... When I think about, 825 00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:15,700 like, the foundation of 826 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,534 this book and you know, why I have 827 00:29:19,534 --> 00:29:20,894 kind of started on this process and press 828 00:29:20,894 --> 00:29:22,194 forward. I know we both 829 00:29:22,815 --> 00:29:24,654 are kind of in the academic realm. Right? 830 00:29:24,815 --> 00:29:25,794 We, like, love 831 00:29:26,108 --> 00:29:27,778 having an academic realm. So there was actually 832 00:29:27,778 --> 00:29:30,800 a quote by Albert Einstein says we cannot 833 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,583 solve our problems with the same thinking we 834 00:29:33,583 --> 00:29:35,174 we used when we created them. 835 00:29:35,984 --> 00:29:37,581 And so if you think about that, we 836 00:29:37,581 --> 00:29:39,656 cannot solve our problems with with the same 837 00:29:39,656 --> 00:29:41,492 thing we use when we created them. So 838 00:29:41,492 --> 00:29:42,610 it's kinda 1 of those things you have 839 00:29:42,610 --> 00:29:44,207 to think about and it kinda blows your 840 00:29:44,207 --> 00:29:46,132 mind for a second. But ultimately, 841 00:29:46,608 --> 00:29:49,068 really what how that has influenced me in 842 00:29:49,068 --> 00:29:51,845 in my career before even, going after a 843 00:29:51,845 --> 00:29:54,424 couple masters. I was in English and journalism 844 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,704 double major. So I'm I'm really big on 845 00:29:56,704 --> 00:29:58,793 reading and understanding history and 846 00:29:59,166 --> 00:30:00,809 bringing that into it. So for me, Greece 847 00:30:01,009 --> 00:30:03,003 I think that there are always new ways 848 00:30:03,003 --> 00:30:05,976 of thinking. And even the 5 day process 849 00:30:06,034 --> 00:30:07,948 made of design thinking. You know, the 2 850 00:30:07,948 --> 00:30:10,761 hour processes made off innovating from those 851 00:30:11,073 --> 00:30:12,844 we constantly need to be 852 00:30:13,219 --> 00:30:16,159 reinventing ways that we've been thinking. And there 853 00:30:16,159 --> 00:30:18,146 is no right or wrong answer, but the 854 00:30:18,146 --> 00:30:19,752 reality, he is. I mean, look at the 855 00:30:19,752 --> 00:30:21,901 amount of automation. We were just talking about 856 00:30:21,901 --> 00:30:22,617 chat Gp. 857 00:30:23,253 --> 00:30:25,561 You know, it could take you going from, 858 00:30:25,641 --> 00:30:27,153 like, inter... Let's just say a company does 859 00:30:27,153 --> 00:30:29,077 use chat gp T for personas, and you 860 00:30:29,077 --> 00:30:31,224 go from interviewing 5 to 10 people, 861 00:30:31,780 --> 00:30:34,007 really kinda honing on that persona to just 862 00:30:34,007 --> 00:30:35,836 asking chat Gp in a couple seconds, 863 00:30:36,329 --> 00:30:38,006 So tell me, why would it make... How 864 00:30:38,006 --> 00:30:40,001 would it make sense to go spend 5 865 00:30:40,001 --> 00:30:41,439 days solving a problem when you can do 866 00:30:41,439 --> 00:30:43,355 it in less time. And in fact, I've 867 00:30:43,355 --> 00:30:45,111 had people say, I'm just gonna throw in 868 00:30:45,111 --> 00:30:45,191 chat 869 00:30:45,924 --> 00:30:47,922 Skip the whole thing altogether. I mean no 870 00:30:47,922 --> 00:30:50,159 1 has time that, you know, that that 871 00:30:50,159 --> 00:30:51,678 they did, I guess, is how we're all 872 00:30:51,678 --> 00:30:54,255 thinking about it. Right? Generational, the shift of 873 00:30:54,315 --> 00:30:57,266 automation in has really changed and they're expecting 874 00:30:57,266 --> 00:31:00,622 things instantly. Instant gratification at their fingertips. So 875 00:31:00,757 --> 00:31:02,264 that's something to really keep in mind, and 876 00:31:02,264 --> 00:31:04,193 that's always instant fired me to keep thinking 877 00:31:04,193 --> 00:31:06,770 above and beyond. And even before 878 00:31:07,149 --> 00:31:09,407 artificial intelligence was cool, I have worked on 879 00:31:09,706 --> 00:31:12,680 machine learning and natural language processing tools and 880 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,599 automation for years before it came out. So 881 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,839 I mean, I think, there's so much more 882 00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:19,160 work that we can be doing, and we 883 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,612 could use that to help us get along 884 00:31:20,612 --> 00:31:22,146 the way, but we need to be solving 885 00:31:22,283 --> 00:31:24,113 problems more quickly and thinking differently. 886 00:31:25,863 --> 00:31:28,171 Absolutely. Having a clear understanding of the problem. 887 00:31:28,807 --> 00:31:31,842 And front thinking that got us that there's 888 00:31:31,842 --> 00:31:32,955 1 way of thinking that got us into 889 00:31:32,955 --> 00:31:34,465 the problem. We we need you thinking help 890 00:31:34,465 --> 00:31:36,372 us get out of that problem. So there's 891 00:31:36,372 --> 00:31:38,453 always more to learn for sure. Front how 892 00:31:38,453 --> 00:31:40,680 can people find out about your book? Clearly, 893 00:31:41,078 --> 00:31:42,270 Amazon's source, but you might have a better 894 00:31:42,270 --> 00:31:43,622 place of point us to as well as 895 00:31:43,622 --> 00:31:45,451 the training work you do and anything else 896 00:31:45,451 --> 00:31:46,619 that you'd like to share with us? How 897 00:31:47,056 --> 00:31:48,880 Yeah. So they could go to the website, 898 00:31:49,118 --> 00:31:51,894 2 hour design sprints dot com, or obviously, 899 00:31:51,974 --> 00:31:53,639 you mentioned the book solving problems in 2 900 00:31:53,639 --> 00:31:54,353 hours is... 901 00:31:55,004 --> 00:31:57,473 On Amazon. I also... Like, I'm a network 902 00:31:57,473 --> 00:31:59,543 or personality, so I always feel free to 903 00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:00,521 follow me on linkedin 904 00:32:00,977 --> 00:32:03,605 with content, and I also have, number of, 905 00:32:03,859 --> 00:32:06,257 templates out on the fig jam community if 906 00:32:06,257 --> 00:32:08,015 you search for teresa king. 907 00:32:09,773 --> 00:32:11,532 Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing the 908 00:32:11,532 --> 00:32:12,810 information and really delighted to be able to 909 00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:14,821 hear about these 2 hours Sprints, and I 910 00:32:14,821 --> 00:32:17,134 think they probably you're you're... What you share 911 00:32:17,134 --> 00:32:19,607 with this inspired many listeners to check out. 912 00:32:19,846 --> 00:32:21,361 Hey, What can I get done in in 913 00:32:21,361 --> 00:32:23,036 2 hours and how could we formulate that 914 00:32:23,036 --> 00:32:25,671 and standardize? That. So good resources in your 915 00:32:25,671 --> 00:32:26,780 book to make that cleared to all of 916 00:32:26,780 --> 00:32:28,761 us. So appreciate you being with us today. 917 00:32:29,237 --> 00:32:30,505 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. 918 00:32:31,870 --> 00:32:34,256 And listeners, I appreciate you being here as 919 00:32:34,256 --> 00:32:36,323 well. I do fund this podcast by the 920 00:32:36,323 --> 00:32:38,311 training that I do for product managers and 921 00:32:38,311 --> 00:32:40,538 leaders. There's 3 versions of that 1 that's 922 00:32:40,538 --> 00:32:41,069 just to help 923 00:32:41,745 --> 00:32:44,367 managers get better grounded. That's my rapid product 924 00:32:44,367 --> 00:32:46,513 mastery experience. Another 1 is to help product 925 00:32:46,513 --> 00:32:49,533 leaders really becomes innovation leaders. And then finally 926 00:32:49,533 --> 00:32:51,858 for senior exotic executives to understand what's different 927 00:32:51,858 --> 00:32:54,808 about leading innovation compared to leading the organization 928 00:32:54,808 --> 00:32:57,381 and their functions. To find those resources at 929 00:32:57,439 --> 00:32:59,999 product mastery now dot com executives and let 930 00:32:59,999 --> 00:33:01,189 me know if there's any questions about that 931 00:33:01,347 --> 00:33:02,933 I can help you with. As always, everyone, 932 00:33:03,251 --> 00:33:05,947 keep innovating. Thank you for listening to product 933 00:33:05,947 --> 00:33:09,308 mastery now. Where product leaders and managers gain 934 00:33:09,308 --> 00:33:11,463 product mastery through practical knowledge, 935 00:33:12,021 --> 00:33:13,319 influence and confidence 936 00:33:13,857 --> 00:33:16,499 by listening you are becoming a product master, 937 00:33:16,897 --> 00:33:21,033 creating products customers love. Find additional resources at 938 00:33:21,033 --> 00:33:22,782 product mastery now dot com. 939 00:33:23,514 --> 00:33:24,470 Keep innovating.