Hello, everyone.
Welcome to your newest episode of the cosmic matrix podcast with your host
myself, Laura Matsu and Barnhard Gunther. And in this episode,
it's gonna be a really in depth episode and we're gonna go into the real
causes of mental illness.
So before we get into that,
I just have a little announcement and we are going to do a
masterclass on evolutionary relationships. Uh,
registration is gonna be open next week,
and it's going to be about how to use relationships as a path of awakening.
And we're gonna give you tools on how to do that.
We're gonna give demonstrations, we're gonna talk about different spiritual, uh,
topics, which are related to, uh, using relationships as a path of evolution.
So if you want to be notified,
make sure that you're on Bernhard's mailing list.
So you would go to www.veilofreality.com
and you'll see a little popup to sign up for his newsletter and make sure you
sign up, cuz we're gonna announce it next week. So yeah.
So what we're gonna cover in this podcast is pretty vast.
We're gonna begin in the first hour,
we're gonna talk about how mental illness pretty much in our opinion only has
one diagnosis. We're gonna talk about the DSM,
a brief history of the DSM.
We're gonna talk about how personality disorders are actually adaptations,
meaning adaptations to an environ, an environment that someone was raised in.
We're gonna talk about what depression is related to and how it's related to
trauma.
And we're also gonna talk about how this collective loss of the relationship of
the divine is also related to the epidemic of mental
unwellness.
I guess you could say that we're having and how to heal from mental illness.
So we're gonna just give some practical tips, looking at aspects of your health,
physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, and in the second hour,
we're gonna talk about the history of psychiatry and we're gonna get more into
the Ault entity topic related to the mental illness.
So we're gonna talk about entity attachments, earthbound spirits,
how that relates to mental illness. We're gonna go into Dr. Williams,
Baldwin's work on this as well, as well as Jerry Martin Sinski. Um,
and really just kind of talk about how the spiritual like hidden
dimension can be related to mental illness as well. But before we get into it,
I just have to do a quick disclaimer,
Bernhard and I are not medical professionals and we are not giving
any medical advice on this podcast.
So we're just gonna speak from our own experience in hopes that we can,
we can present a different view on mental illness and the consensus view.
I'm sure some of this information may not be new to some of you,
but for some of you who maybe are on psychiatric drugs who have been diagnosed
with a mental illness, like, I just want you to know that, you know,
we're not telling you to get off your medication.
We're not telling you that it's all in your head or whatever.
We're just presenting a different perspective to mental illness based on our own
experiences, struggling with it. So just a disclaimer, not medical advice,
just take this as information knowledge, it's an opinion,
it's personal opinion and that's it.
So yeah. Where should we begin?
Well, let's start with, um, the big news, which really, um, you know,
was the inspiration for this podcast. Well, big news happened a few weeks ago,
I would say maybe a month ago. And, um,
it's about the depression, serotonin myth, uh,
and chemical imbalance or linking depression to chemical imbalance in
the brain, which has been basically the consensus view,
um, on, you know, uh, mainstream psychiatry.
So to speak that a mental illness in particularly depression is related to in
chemical imbalance in the brain,
hence you treated with SSRIs or antidepressants.
What does SSRI stand for again, by.
The way, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, very.
you know, that very well. Um, however, um,
there has been some research coming out official research a few weeks ago on
various articles, uh,
basically stating that the official science that depression is linked to a
chemical imbalance in the brain has been officially debunked.
And there's even a quote from an official, uh, science paper, uh, um,
stating that depression is not caused, uh,
by chemical imbalance in the brain new study finds.
And the direct quote from this study is, uh,
just to basically summarize it a nutshell,
despite the fact that the serotonin theory of depression has been so
influential,
no comprehensive review has yet synthesized the relevant evidence,
which is huge. So basically.
Where is that from again.
That's from, uh, an official government, uh, uh, paper,
you link to it actually in.
Oh, it was from the study then from.
The study. Exactly. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, because you made little video,
I think on Instagram about.
This topic. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Exactly. We can link to that. I'm gonna link to that article in the, uh,
show notes of, of this episode as well. So you guys can check it out,
but basically it's been proving, which I wanna go later,
but Jerry Maki talked about in podcast many years ago that there has been never,
ever, uh,
a scientific proof linking chemical imbalance to depression,
and now it's been,
confirmed so to speak and we have assumed that for so, so long. Yeah.
Right. So that's when I start off that actually that's a huge step, right.
That officially it's acknowledged that depression most likely does not link to
any chemical imbalance. Hence the question of under depress antipsychotic,
uh, antipsychotic drugs and all of.
That. Well, no, but so, you know, this is just related to SSRIs,
right? Like we, they, the, this, this,
the antipsychotics that they give them is based on also bunk science that hasn't
ever been proven as well. Right.
Which is antipsychotics are usually more given to people with schizophrenia or
even borderline sometimes, um, sometimes even given people with,
with depression as well, but like, you know, that the, the, the,
the science behind that is also bunk basically.
right. Okay. All of it. We know, we know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, you know, I mean, there was, again,
there was never really scientific proof of the connection of depression and
chemical imbalance to begin with,
but it was based on big farmer sponsored pseudoscience. Why?
Because just follow the money as always, and question who really profits, uh,
in generally from SSRIs and other psych drugs, you know,
and that note a pharmaceutical industry, um, little fact here, um,
is making about 11.7 billion a year on
the sale of anti of psychotropic drugs, drugs, basically.
And one out of six Americans is on some kind of psychotropic.
Drug that's I, I guarantee you it's higher than that. Yeah.
I think it's higher because even I was reading a statistic the other day
that like 15% of children in foster kid foster care under
five we're on an antipsychotic.
Wow. Okay. I think it's also increased, especially as we talked on this OC,
um, a few times over the past couple of years, uh,
with this matrix trauma installment program and, and the, you know,
basically psychological warfare, military style Mia ultra program, you know,
of all the lockdowns and gas lighting and, you know,
basically traumatizing the whole population more and more people got on these
drugs and, you know, because of, um, the mental breakdowns.
Well, it's not just that it's been happening for a while. You know,
like I actually read that 50% of Americans were on some level of psychiatric
drugs. So mm-hmm, , um, you know,
we've been medicalizing human suffering for the past couple,
few decades, whenever, when did, when did, when is the psychia psychiatry?
The DSM started, uh.
That started in 1952.
Okay. Exactly. So this is pretty young, you know,
and personally I've think it was a huge mistake and there's many reasons behind
that.
I don't think it was a mistake. Wasn't.
No, I mean, intentionally yeah. intentionally. Okay.
So in the eyes of the divine, there are no mistakes. No,
but this was basically when I say mistake,
this did not help the problem. It actually made it worse. Yeah.
And it actually made society worse. That's that's my, that's my hypothesis.
Yeah. It's profited the, the, the pharmaceutical industry, you know? Yes.
All that. So of course, the,
a big part of the pharmaceutical industry and
psychiatry is the DSM,
the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders.
You know, many calls, some people call it also the psychiatry's Bible,
the diagnostic Bible that nobody questions and people just, um, read it.
And, uh, or even people go and study psychiatry becomes psychiatrists. They,
they take the information in without you have a questioning where it's coming
from. And it's really fascinating because, you know,
a lot of these labels or mental illnesses that are, um,
described in the DSM are literally made up and based on very unscientific
methods and people just observed, oh, we're gonna call this that,
are we gonna call this bipolar?
We're gonna call this border borderline personality. Yes.
Many personality disorders. Right. Can I just, people just make up. And, uh,
also then basically believing that any,
for the most part mental illness is also caused because of an chemical imbalance
in the brain, which then can be held by a pharmaceutical drugs.
So they made it all up.
And it was basically a group of psychiatrists who were basically
hypothesizing about the personality patterns that they saw in their clients.
And they just, just invented illnesses out of it, basically. Yes. So, and,
and actually,
I don't even think the scientific method itself can get at the mental
illness on top of it because I see it as actually, uh,
has a spiritual dimension, you know? Um, but, okay.
So let me give a quote about this directly from the book, uh,
cracked by James Davies. And this is a really good book.
It talks about the history of psychiatry.
The subtitle is called the unhappy truth about psychiatry. And basically,
you know, he says, he gives this quote from Dr.
Theodore Millon, who was part of the original DSM construction.
And here's what he said about it.
This is directly from someone who was on the original task force of the DSM
mm-hmm . And he says there was very little systematic research.
And much of the research that existed was really a hodgepodge scattered,
inconsistent, and ambiguous. I think the majority of us recognized that a,
that the amount of good solid science upon which we were making our decisions
was pretty modest. Um, so that's one quote mm-hmm .
And then he says, once I read this quote to Spitzer,
who was one of the main leaders on the task force and, and this, and this guy,
James days, Davey asked whether he agreed with Milton's statement. And he says,
after a short and uncomfortable silence,
Spitzer responded in a way I didn't expect. So this is one Spitzer, um,
uh, one of the main people behind the Aboriginal DSM. And he says,
well, it's true that for many,
that for many of the disorders that were added there,
wasn't a tremendous amount of research.
And certainly there wasn't research on the particular way that we define these
disorders in the case of millions quote, which is a quote I just gave you. Um,
I think he is mainly referring to the personality disorders, but again,
it is certainly true that the amount of research validating data on most
psychiatric disorders is very limited. Indeed.
And then the guy who's interviewing says, so you're saying, I asked,
try not to look shocked that there was little research,
not only supporting your inclusion of new disorders,
but also supporting how these disorders should be defined.
And then Spitzer says, um,
there are very few disorders whose definition was the result of specific
research data responded Spitzer for borderline personality.
There was some research that looked at the different ways of defining the
disorder, and we chose that definition. That seemed to be the most valid,
but for the other categories, rarely,
could you say that there was research literature supporting the definition's
validity? So basically, and he goes on later to say, yeah,
we had very little on the way of data.
So we were forced to rely on clinical consensus,
which admittedly in his own words is a very poor way to do things.
And he said basically like, and then the guy asked him,
how was the consensus reached? And he says, we thrashed it out.
Basically we had a three hour argument,
there would be 12 people sitting down at a table.
Usually there was a chairperson, there was somebody taking notes.
And at the end of each meeting, there would be a distribution of events.
And at the next meeting,
some would agree with the inclusion and others would continuing arguing.
And if people were divided the matter would eventually be decided by a vote.
And so this is like, literally it was just 12 people in a room,
just having a discussion about how they could invent different mental illnesses
based on what they saw in their practice.
And I'm sure they were also kind of defining certain groups of personality,
adaptations and traits. I'm not saying that it was all nonsense.
Like these are people who working with people who are mentally ill,
but it's really important to understand there's no scientific
basis for this.
Yeah. So it really goes,
it confirms basically what I've talked about and Jeremy Sinski,
which will talk about more his work. Uh, also the second out, cuz he also, um,
ties into, uh,
mental illness to entity attachments and the real cause of schizophrenia.
All of that I had 'em on my podcast, but basically that the DSM,
which is a BI psychiatrist's Bible of mental illness is literally a work of
fiction where also under important to understand these, uh,
psychiatrists are materialists, right? So it's all about the brain.
So there's no spiritual aspects, you know,
nothing even talking about trauma and all of that.
And that literally just made up BA uh, labels, as you said,
based on very unscientific methods. Yeah. Um, now, interesting.
Another fact also these,
these fabricated so-called mental orders disorders continue to grow. So here's,
it's the DSM one.
The first edition came out in 90, 52 and it listed 106 psychiatric
disorders.
And now fast forward DSM five came out most current one,
2013 and it lists 297 disorders.
So yeah. That's like if, um,
increase of three times and they keep adding the normal disorders,
even like all kinds of I've even remember a few years ago,
some sort of disorder, um, like they have,
I should have looked it up,
but I forgot to do it kind of targeting truth seekers. Right.
If you believe in conspiracies, there's a certain mental disorder you have.
Oh yeah.
Because you don't listen to authority and the consensus mm-hmm
mm-hmm so they just keep up making up shit.
Cause my friends as they go along now yes. On top of it, obviously since,
uh, 52 and 52, the pharmaceutical industry has, um,
more and more influence into this diagnostic. Um,
way of, of,
of adding personality disorders in the DSM as well because the pharmaceutical
industry is very powerful lobbying, you know, people cashing in. Um,
and I remember even, um, you know,
it means it's somewhat related working at animal hospital, um,
because the animals, they give animals the same drugs,
they give humans just a lower doses and maybe, you know, it's very fascinating.
They give them psychiatric.
Drugs, they give 'em psychiatric drugs and it was fascinating, uh,
to see that they were even given dogs, um, Prozac. Yeah. You know, because of,
they're not cuz they seem sad or like not really active.
So they give them, they assume that dogs are depressed,
have depression and give them, uh,
Prozac and Prozac is very interesting because that was probably the very first
anti-depressant drug that came on the market. Excuse me.
And it was, uh, first came on the market in 1988.
And that's also when the drug company, Ali Lilly who, um,
produced Prozac and announced in 1988 first advanced the
chemical imbalance theory. Yeah. So that's when it really took a hold.
Yeah.
So can we go into the trauma piece about it cuz I really wanna talk about,
okay. So then if you know,
we're not denying the fact that people are mentally unwell,
I can see it all the time on social media, even in the world,
you know, um,
we're not denying the fact that these there's there isn't something happening in
the collective psyche of most west Western westernized people,
which is pretty much a whole world at this point.
But my personal belief about that is that all of
these diagnosis have one diagnosis. Well, okay.
When you bring in thecut topic, I just wanna say there's a caveat to this,
but for most people who are experiencing personality disorders,
it's, there's one diagnosis and that's trauma.
Basically it goes across the board and I'm gonna read a quote by Gama about
this, where he really sums it up perfectly.
And then I'm gonna talk about how this is true, how I feel this is true.
So he has a great quote when he says all of these medical conditions originate
in trauma, all the diagnosis that you deal with, depression, anxiety,
ADHD, bipolar,
even psychosis are significantly rooted in trauma.
They are manifestations of trauma and therefore the diagnoses don't explain
anything.
Now the problem in the medical world is that we diagnose somebody and we think
that that is an explanation he's behaving that way because he's psychotic.
She's behaving that way because she has ADHD,
but nobody has ADHD. Nobody has psychosis.
These are processes within the individual. It's not a thing you have.
It's not like you acquire a bacterial infection and now you have pneumonia.
This is a process that explains your life experience.
And it has meaning in every single case,
the diagnoses never get at the meaning. What they do is what the,
what the diagnoses do is they describe something. In other words,
they describe the manifestations of something. For example,
take a diagnosis like borderline personality disorder.
She's like that because she has B BP D no,
she's not like that because she has BPD B P D just describes her coping
mechanism.
B BPD stands for borderline personalism.
Yes, exactly.
So what I'm saying to you that all diagnoses CS originate in coping
mechanisms.
So basically, uh, just to, in a nutshell,
they mistake symptoms for causes.
Exactly. And you wanna look instead of thinking what's wrong with you,
you know, what's wrong with your brain.
You just have a permanent issue with your brain.
That's this pathologization of these processes.
You wanna ask what happened to the person that could have made them develop
this coping mechanism? Yeah.
The only thing I would object and that's definitely, um,
I agree with GOBA Martin,
but there are also instances and that's more the minority, which goes, you know,
more to the call topic because sometimes the disorders can definitely relate
more to responsibility entity attachments, which you talk late on the second or,
but trauma also serves as an entry point and then, you know, um, kind.
Of still related.
On some level, but they also, you know, but I also wanna say, um, you know,
from Nicole perspective, Shio,
beendo talked about at Rudd of Stein and his own work as well. They also, uh,
people born, uh,
without a conscience and ties into genetic psychopath and not necessarily
related to any childhood trauma. Yes. But this IST a small minority.
So I wanna make that a point because this is a very small minority,
but we're gonna cover it because that's been our work, you know? Yes.
Is looking at thecut spiritual influence.
One thing we're probably not gonna have time to touch on this topic as well,
is that when you get into evolutionary astrology, there is mental,
spiritual, and emotional,
psychological trauma that can be re imprinted from past
lifetime. So for example, right,
if you were abandoned as a child in a past life,
and then your parents kind of left you at your grandparents one day and you
didn't know when they were gonna come back,
even though it's not you being totally abandoned by your family and you never
see them again, that can re imprint the past life trauma in this lifetime.
Yes. So we want like, I mean, you can, like,
I personally like blow this whole thing that it's even happening in the brain
out of the water. I don't think it's happening.
I think also the soul can get traumatized as well. So, you know,
my view goes and, and similar to yours even goes beyond Gamas.
Yes. Because I think that there's dimensions spiritual dimensions to trauma,
soul fragmentation, even, you know,
I think the soul can get traumatized as well through certain really
intense life experiences and people can come in with that trauma as well.
So we're just gonna look at it from the developmental trauma perspective and
then we can touch on the ATCA aspect in the second hour.
Yeah. Also I wanna just point out because we've touched on it in a second. Oh.
But the reason also I wanna be very clear in my work.
I talk a lot about hyperdimensional realities entities,
the hyperdimensional manipulation of humanity, unseen forces and whatnot,
finding good, the cold knowledge,
the hidden knowledge and other forces interfering with, uh, the human evolution.
But the reason why we really focus also now specifically on trauma work,
shadow work, and all of that complex PTSD, it's so key. And also,
I agree with you past life. Trauma can be reactivated in a current life,
but the reason you focus,
because that's also most often the entry point for other stuff coming in and
I've noticed in this work,
people jump most often to this whole entity topic way too prematurely,
not knowing the inner their own mind,
never really sincerely engaged in trauma work, shadow work,
and make all kinds of assumptions, but more on that. Yeah. In the second hour.
Well, I'll speak to that piece.
The reason why that's important is because trauma infamously
will either put you in a state of hypervigilance fight or flight or even freeze
state of disassociation. So if you're in that state,
you're going to see all sorts of dangerous stuff everywhere all the time,
because that's how your nervous system is wired.
So you can't even actually be in a grounded enough state to tell if it's a
spiritual interference and tell you're actually regulated yourself is what I'm
trying to say.
So it's like you have to work with the body and the nervous system that you
have, get yourself into a safe and secure place yourself,
and then you can work with it. But I mean,
there's a reason that complex trauma is called complex because it is complicated
to heal. It's not like you just, okay,
I'm just gonna meditate and do some Vail nerve toning. And I'm fine.
It's literally a rewiring of these survival adaptations
that your nervous system learned actually kept you safe.
So there's a reason why people, you know,
the processes in borderline personality and schizophrenia of manic, depression,
whatever you wanna call it all describe a coping mechanism that was an
adaptation to some relational experience. That's my feeling about it. Yeah.
So, so, so going back to DSM and Gatis quote,
so basically saying just to summarize it,
all these personalities orders and symptoms yes.
Even borderline personalities, order, ADHD, anxiety,
like whatever they name as a mental illness has its,
its their symptoms has its roots and trauma. Most of originating in childhood.
Yes.
And the DSM actually even rejected adding developmental
trauma disorder to it because they even said their self that the
symptoms of developmental trauma overlap too much with other personality
disorders so in their own words, they actually said,
we can't add this cuz it's gonna get rid of all the other definitions.
So it's like it.
Interferes if our work exactly.
And interferes with us expanding our, you know,
so I wanna just give some quotes from develop healing,
developmental trauma by Lawrence Hyer. Um, I'm not sure if I'm.
Pronouncing, can we just maybe just as, um, define developmental trauma.
I'm gonna do that. Yeah. Oh that's that's part of yeah, exactly. Exactly.
So basically C PT S which is complex PTSD.
This is a quote from healing, developmental trauma.
It's being used as a catch shell for both ongoing interpersonal trauma for
children and adults and the impacts of childhood trauma on adults.
So CPS D particular focus on like affects three areas of life.
Self-organization meaning the way that you connect and relate to yourself,
emotional regulations, self-concept and relationships.
Whereas developmental trauma in particular is basically based on
relational disruptions during childhood that affect affected
child. Uh, child's sense of self complex trauma is an umbrella term.
That includes basically later relational disruptions to one sense of self.
So like, you know,
the developmental trauma happens very young in your developmental years
basically.
And then complex trauma would be ongoing trauma that can actually kind
of, um, link up with that. So if you have developmental trauma, chances are,
you've also experienced complex trauma later on because your developmental
trauma would most likely actually make you seek out situations that would create
more trauma for you later on.
And also it's really important to understand that the field of complex trauma
is basically related to attachment theory.
So it's about how attachment relationships impact child development.
So we wanna look at that and that's ongoing too. You know,
so disorganized attachment for example,
is highly linked with BT B P D for example.
So attachment theory complex PTSD are really highly
interlinked essentially. And so, you know,
it was really a long time before they even put PTSD into
the DSM itself. That was,
it was a long time before they even allowed that to go in, you know,
because they even, they, the,
the mainstream medical model tended to deny trauma for a really long time.
And if you look at the, uh, child rearing practices, even in the fifties,
like let the baby cry it out. You know,
we had all of these kind of basically pathological ways of raising
children based on the medicalization of birth, essentially. So, you know,
it was a really big shift when they actually put PTSD
into the DSM. And by the way, complex PTSD is I, I don't believe is in the,
in the DSM anymore. And then Judith Herman has a really good quote about this,
you know, where she defines it. And she wrote this book, uh, this, uh,
trauma book, sorry, the name is, uh, not in my mind right now,
but she has this great quote where she says the diagnosis of post-traumatic
stress disorder does not fit accurately enough in survivors of prolonged
repeated trauma.
The symptom picture is often far more complex survivors of abusing
childhood develop characteristic, personality changes,
including deformation of relatedness and identity. In addition,
they are particularly vulnerable to repeated harm both self-inflicted and at the
hands of others,
the syndrome that follows upon prolonged repeated trauma needs its own name.
I propose to call it complex post-traumatic stress.
So complex,
traumatic stress is basically long term exposure to relational and
emotional trauma in which you didn't have any control to escape from for no
self agency. Meaning your parents basically.
So when your parents are not meeting your needs and not attuned to,
or even worse or abused, you have a family,
who's a member who's addicted to has a mental illness.
The child actually tends to disconnect from themselves in order to adapt to the
environment.
So that's the first trauma that happens any moment where you were forced to
disconnect from your own feelings,
your own self in order to adapt to an unhealthy environment that is
developmental trauma.
Yeah. On that note, I would even argue or say,
I've written about this before as well.
That there's not just no such thing as mental illness,
nobody's mentally ill. These are coping mechanisms, trauma responses,
symptoms, right? Exactly. There's nothing wrong in your brain other than,
you know, and even like what you just mentioned,
some of these trauma responses we have, even the, we,
we talked about a previous podcasts,
like the fight and flight freeze and fun disassociating,
or even other behaviors because of the, uh, PTSD.
We're very necessary at that moment of the trauma to protect ourselves.
Exactly.
So we need to understand there's nothing wrong with these reactions because they
help us survive. Yes. Right. The fight and flight disassociating, it was not,
uh, we needed to escape in the head disassociate.
It was not safe to share our feelings, our emotions and whatnot. Right?
So these are valid psych reactions of the mind
to disassociate, to protect ourselves on a psychological emotion,
even physical level. The only problem is with complex PTSD,
it stays within,
and we then unconsciously have these reactions to even safe situations in
the future. And it becomes more embedded in the psyche. Well, yeah,
but it's not a mental illness.
No, no, no. Like it's like an,
it's like a survival based personality adaptation that served you
well in some environment and keep in mind that it can happen beyond early
childhood. A can be of like a terrible relationship.
But if you're attracted a terrible relationships,
it's also related to developmental trauma. So they overlap a lot, you know?
Yeah. But the issue is, is the focus on the symptoms and the behavior.
It doesn't look at the underlying cause on why this happened.
So there's a reason why anyone developed any negative self concept,
negative relationship, relationship, traits, it all serves a purpose.
But then later on it's like this outdated program that keeps running, you know,
so for example, you know, for people who have had, um, you know,
loss of trust or, uh, abusive childhoods or whatever, you know,
they learn not to trust early on because of course,
like they learn not to trust cuz the adults around them were not reliable or
safe, but then later on they will not trust anyone in life.
Even if that person has proven to be trustworthy because that adaptation is
still right.
And then, you know,
not trusting yourself and not trusting life and living this perpetual fear.
Yeah. Right. And paranoia. Yeah.
So we really, so we really wanna understand complex trauma.
So, and we wanna understand the adaptations, you know,
and it's really important to understand PT C PTSD.
So complex PTSD basically focuses on impairments on
the ability to regulate your emotions. So it's about dysregulation.
So you wanna understand, you know, how, you know,
basically how triggered you get in everyday life essentially.
So you wanna look at like how your nervous system gets activated in certain
situations, how you tend to check out how you tend to freeze also, you know,
issues with self-regulation tends to lead with issues with eating, sleeping,
sexuality, impulse control, how it shows up is depression, anxiety,
numbing, pain, difficulty relating to the world, difficulty relating to, um,
you know, uh, authorities or whatever. There's so many ways it shows up,
but basically it's a disconnection from the self and it is disconnection from
healthy attachment essentially. So, you know, it's really important.
We have to first understand how did this person in
front of us, how did I adapt to this relational trauma?
What are the impacts of the adaptations on my nervous system,
on my disconnection himself,
on my disconnection from relationships and how actually the suffering
underlying all of these adaptations is really a deep desire for connection.
Okay. So that's kind of what the, where the healing comes from.
And just to kind of like riff a little bit, you know, so borderline,
borderline personality is basically highly related to disorganized attachment.
I, I hate you, but don't leave me kind of thing.
That's disorganized attachment manic depression for example,
is issues regulating emotions. And I can speak from personal experience.
So I lived in an environment that was very emotionally chaotic.
Like either it was amazing or it was awful.
And so I was later diagnosed with manic depression.
And where did I learn to have such dysregulated emotions?
I learned it from my early childhood environment and then schizophrenia is
actually extreme splitting basically.
So the psyche literally splits and enters into a different world.
So we'll talk about that more in the second hour,
but it's really important that we understand basically instead of what's wrong
with you, what happened to you?
And we wanna look at how any symptoms that they diagnose as mental illnesses
are basically survival strategies that we learn to deal with unresolved trauma
and people are really doing the best they can given the circumstances that they
grew up in.
So it really actually removes this pathologization and medicalization of
mental illness. And instead it looks at like,
what kind of personality adaptations does this person have?
How could it that help them survive early on?
And how can we get them back into a safe and connected space within themselves
and within their relationships?
Yeah. You make a good point. I want us,
especially nowadays these personalities orders are being thrown, right.
Even the quote, true movement, conscious movement.
People like just use it to insult people. You know, even like Amber heard,
for example, I mean, this is a mainstream thing. She got Dr.
Got diagnosed with a B BPT, borderline personal disorder.
She exhibits all the symptoms probably has been lying all around,
but she also exhibited this attachment, um, issue, you know.
Disorganized attachment.
It's so clear. And like it's all the signs point into that.
Also these are symptoms based on trauma, right? Yes. But then people, you know,
shed a project on her, you know, like, you know, it, it really like, you know,
insult her in many different ways. And that's,
I'm not saying that people need to be held,
not held accountable for whatever they did wrong and whatnot,
but there's some deeper issue. And I can relate to that as well,
because I've been in a relationship many, many years ago,
but somebody got diagnosed with B P D. Right. But I can see underlying,
there was a lot of trauma she had in childhood early on. Yeah.
That developed that personality. So the, you know,
the problem we have right now with the DSM is that they pathologize these
processes and understand there's also the need for the human mind to categorize,
to label for language. Right? Yeah.
So sometimes I'm using also like an N P D narcissistic personal disorder
or, uh, borderline personal disorder, all these, like you can use them,
you know, in the terms of to label.
Like their archetypes at this.
Point, they almost archetypes. But understanding there are, um,
there are coping mechanisms based on trauma for the most part.
Yeah.
Which automatically should bring you to a more compassionate framework to your
own. If you've been diagnosed with a mental illness,
if you know someone with mental illness,
it doesn't mean that you don't make boundaries or you make excuses for their
behavior. You know,
I also think that there's been this whole wave of like people destigmatizing
mental illness,
but the issue with that is in the destigmatization they've overly
identified with the mental illness. So like I'm B,
P D I'm this and this and this. And they literally take it as a badge of honor,
you know? And so we have almost the opposite direction of people, you know,
we've quote unquote destigmatized mental illness, according to, you know,
the consensus. But then along with it,
we've made people overly identify with the mental illness and see it as a life
sentence.
Exactly. The,
the identification of the label is also the trap of itself or using it as a
weapon. You see many people even like they blame their partner, like, oh,
she's a BPD or he's a narcissist. Yes. Right. The demonizing of the partner,
getting yourself in the victim consciousness and not like having compassion,
that sense, having compassion for the trauma what's underlying it. Yeah. Right.
Doesn't mean that you don't make boundaries doesn't mean that you don't,
you know, just go along with it, but also then self reflecting,
how come special relationship you were attracted to this person to begin with?
Or how did, why did you attract this person into your life, uh,
to begin with as well?
Because a lot of relationships we engage in are based on unconscious attraction
based on unconscious trauma. There are a lot of trauma bonding.
Yes, exactly.
So let's talk a little bit particularly about depression and the yeah. And the,
because I think that's probably the most common thing I think is also personally
it's part of the human condition. Is it okay? We, we move on to this. Yeah. Um,
so I wanna first start by giving a definition about the depressive
position, which is from, uh, Melanie Klein. Okay.
So she talks about an important stage in the child's development,
which includes the depressive position.
So the depressive position is basically a mental constellation
that she defines is first experience in the first year of the child's life.
And it's repeatedly revisited throughout childhood and adulthood.
So it's central to this realization is when the child realizes
that the mother is also is an object of love and an also an object of
hate. So it's this confluence of the thing that I love is also not, you know,
the thing that I don't, that I hate,
the thing that gives me anxiety creates basically this paradox within the child,
and then that's used in different ways in, in later development, basically.
So basically, uh, and now I'm quoting Mark Jones. Who's actually, uh,
one of my mentors and psychosynthesis where he talks about that.
The maturation of the adult also includes this depressive position
and the ability to handle paradox.
So any deeper human love has to include the depressive position.
So this is when you realize that the person you love is also a source of pain
for you. So it's almost like the acknowledgement of basic suffering in Buddhism.
It means that you realize that you can't depend on being happy from someone
else, basically that people are not there to,
just to meet your narcissistic needs.
So as soon as we see the world as all good or all bad,
we're in this position of psychic splitting,
and we're not accepting the maturity of the depressive position. So basically,
you know, and this is Mark Jones quote, he says to individuate,
you actually have to accept the depressive position.
So you have to accept that your parents were not the best in the world.
Maybe they could have been better, but they weren't.
You have to accept that people are not all good or all bad,
but often a little bit of both and that no one will magically rescue you from
your pain. That life includes. So life includes suffering.
It includes paradox and it's hard.
So this is a maturation process that depression represents.
So accepting this depressive position and being mature with it is the
point of depression.
So there's implicit maturation associated with depression.
There's a reason that Saturn and astrology represents depression and maturation.
And it's about recognizing that no,
one's gonna save me from this being human is hard.
It's all on me and there's pain in, in that.
And that will liberate you from life.
But accepting that depression as part of life is actually part of a healthy ego.
Yeah, I can relate to that. So there's also, again,
depression is part of life is actually a function of the psyche.
So to speak in the maturation process of the soul as well,
the individuation process ties into maximum alienation maximum, uh,
what is the other one isolation isolation, right. Um,
but I wanna share this for my own experience because I can see too far because I
was definitely dealing with severe depression, this,
this span and suicidal tendencies,
especially in my early twenties throughout my twenties, really. Um,
that really also that,
that depression actually was the catalyst that got me into the work I'm doing
right now of questioning what's going in the world. Who am I?
Because I really had to figure myself out. Otherwise I would, I would,
I would've died. That's really the voice that came into my mind. I was,
you know, dealing a lot of free states.
I realize now that the depression I was dealing with was also trauma response.
It's a free state, right. A free state, free state. That's another piece that I,
that yeah, exactly.
Depression is the free state. Right. In a sense.
Yeah, because you're, you're, you're, you're so frozen.
Like you have to understand that underneath depression is anger.
So you need to, actually, the depression is like, almost like an,
a state of activation that's gone on so long that you're now frozen in this
state of.
Suppression,
because I can relate that because there've been phases when I was just laying in
fetus position in bed, just crying, not, not having no energy, no motivation,
no life force nothing. I was just, yes, exactly.
Also was loathing self-loathing right. Yes.
Like really all poor me kind of thing. Yeah. So all of that now,
knowing what I know about my own history, going deeper into my own psyche and,
and widening my perspective.
A lot of it was a trauma response in the sense right.
Of missing need certain developmental needs that were not met, you know,
growing up and all of that. Right.
What age did that happen to you?
Uh, the depression. Yeah. That was in my early twenties.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So do you.
Think to myTurn.
Return, do you think it was actually also,
can you see it being part of like maturing into adulthood too and having to
accept the craftiness of life too? Exactly.
So that's that's I came to realize, so in my whole process,
I could see a partly trauma response, but also I realized that the depression,
especially I was dealing with for many others, maybe as well, even quote,
unquote, other psychological issues people are being labeled are. In fact,
sometimes I see as a normal reaction to growing up in a society,
that's very much removed from nature and spirit. Exactly. You know, the,
the quote came to mind what really helped in this process. And I've,
I've mentioned this quote many times,
but it had a profound effect in my life when I first came across it in the,
in the nineties as by Christian Morty, you know,
and he's saying it's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly
sick society. And that's what I was trying to do.
I was comparing myself to society. I was trying to fit in,
but it brought more depression. It didn't fit.
It was like a contradiction mm-hmm mm-hmm and that's
where the, um, depression came from. Right.
So I saw it almost now I realized that depression in that sense is a healthy
sign of a healthy,
spiritual immune system to reject the pathogen of cult and influences
of a, uh, society where pathologies have become normalized.
Well, that's kind of like the Mark Jones, you know, exactly to accentuate,
you have to have accepted the depressive position.
And this is actually probably the main issue that I have with the,
a lot of the people in the spiritual community, because,
or maybe not the spiritual community I'm in,
but the kind of like new age love and light crew, you know,
because I don't accept the depressive position. Like, oh, it's all love.
It's all one and whatever. It's like, no life is hard.
Sometimes life includes suffering. Like I'm with the Buddhist on this, you know,
if you accept that, actually the easier life will get.
But if you live in a state of psychological splitting where life is either all
good or all bad people are either good or all bad,
you've not accepted the basic depression. Yeah. The basic suffering of life,
essentially.
Yeah, exactly.
And this process became also very clear to me that depression had nothing to do
with chemical imbalance in my brain.
If I would've gone back then to a psychiatrist,
they would've put me on some sort of SSRI and antidepressant. Yes. Right.
Uh, but for me, depression came was for the most part,
it's like a Cryer call from the soul or spirit begging for attention. Yeah.
Right. That's really what,
what I realized and the only way out was in and through.
So I also learned only to allow myself, I mean,
I had my face of self-indulgence listening to very depressive music or,
you know, S and chains and all.
But how was that helping you.
That two in two ways it was helping me on some level I could relate, you know,
on an emotional level,
especially music allowed me myself to feel those feelings. That's.
That.
Was a key point. Yeah. Can I say something to that though?
That's really important because in order to actually get outta the depression,
you actually have to slowly Penate between allowing yourself to feel the more
intense feelings, including anger, including the grief. And you have to kind of,
and the music actually helped you get outta the depression because it helped you
get outta the free state through process in the emotions.
Exactly. Well, thank you for sharing. And then also being musician,
expressing myself, playing in bands, drums, expressing that, uh,
creatively helped me a lot also dance. So that was my, uh, especially drumming,
you know, to, to really like process these emotions and listen,
music has a big effect on it. The other side of the coin though,
is I saw myself also sometimes, especially, you know, this, the emo thing,
I was never into email, but more to like grand, um, was, yeah,
I grew up on E chains, sound garden, more heavier music as well, Metallica,
Panera, but I could bury myself emotionally,
but I saw myself then also indulging in it and kind of getting stuck in it.
Right. Almost identifying more with that stage. So.
Do you didn't so can I just ask you applying trauma theory, did you Penate,
did you like,
just pendulate like into the bad feelings and not kind of pendulate into
feelings of neutrality or relief, cause that would be the ideal trauma healing.
So you would go into the intense death metal or, you know,
the music to help you process the feelings,
but then you would go out of it into either a state of neutral feeling or a
state of neutrality and that would help you process the emotions.
That's that's a good, very good question.
I can see both sometimes getting stuck in it and more indulging in it. So.
You were ululating.
It. Yeah. But then also help to transmute it.
And I feel actually relieved and lighter. Yes.
Like pro like really processing it. Yes.
But the key point would help me in this process as well,
because a lot of the ban bands are like, then they died of drug overdoses.
They killed themselves, you know, they kind of got stuck in all of that. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Um,
but what helped me then was also doing the psychological work that, you know,
my own child confronting that,
but bringing in the spiritual aspect mm-hmm , which is very key.
Like that's why I wanna address as well because only the psychological process
finding good, but you can always get stuck in childhood, you know, of digging,
digging, digging in psychoanalysis, which can be a trap in itself.
If you don't bring the spiritual aspect, not only aspiration to the divine,
but to ask to your true self, the ultimate questions, who am I beyond this,
uh, personality?
Well, that's the whole,
I think issue is that we have removed spirit.
We have removed the sacred from part of the consensus reality because we are in
this materialistic age and that's actually,
what's causing a lot of this mental illness, I think. Yeah.
That's the underlying thing is if you remove what connects people to all of life
then, and, and their relationship with the higher power,
then you actually remove the main reason why we're here essentially, you.
Know, you know, on that note as well even,
I can see it in you being both together even to this day. I still have,
sometimes I'm depressed here in little things, melancholic stuff comes up,
it's their send and descent, you know, I'm not always like happy,
love and light and like motivated. Sometimes I go down in depth into the cave,
into the underworld myself, and I feel even what's happening in the world,
it gets to me and all of that. But I've learned to transmute it,
to sit for the beaver that, and even, uh, con you know,
get inspired by it creatively. Yeah. Right. That a lot of my work is based on,
you know,
pain and suffering to kind of find the solution to find my way out of it,
through these processes,
through understanding and kind of use it as a motivation, in a sense to,
uh, embrace life more. Yeah. If.
That makes sense. Yeah, exactly. So let's, let me,
let's just talk about let you know, we're not gonna give people, uh,
answers on how to get off psychiatric drugs or whatever,
but I'm just gonna speak for my own experience,
how I helped myself heal from major mental illness and trauma,
and I'm still working on it. Now.
I still have exaggerated startle responses at someone like sneaks up on me or
something, you know, there's still leftover signs.
So I just want people to know that healing trauma is a marathon.
It's not a race. In fact, if you make it into a race,
you're gonna add another layer of trauma on top of your already agitated nervous
system. So, um,
let's look at some pieces and then I wanna hear how you related to this too.
Okay.
So first you really have to look at all aspects of your health.
So this is gonna begin with the physical.
So if you were on psychiatric drugs, other drugs,
et cetera, you know,
I know Kelly broken actually has a detox protocol from psychiatric drugs.
People wanna look into that as well.
She has a whole program that she helps people taper off, you know,
but regardless. So if you're wanting to, you have to get your body in shape,
especially if you were using psychiatric drugs, like that's what I had to do.
I had to detox. I was going hard every day. I was detoxing. I'm not even joking.
You have to stay away from processed food. You have to stay away from seed oils.
You have to get daily exercise. You have to sweat meditation, you know,
all of the aspects of your physical health need to be.
I think basically almost like pristine, you know,
you don't wanna go into like some weird paranoid orthorexia thing as well,
but you really gotta clean up and detox your body. That's the first step.
Um,
because actually I notice a lot of people who have especially more severe mental
illnesses, they have terrible diets as well, you know,
and they're also probably attracted to these toxic foods because of toxicity in
their body too.
So do not discount the physical environment and do your physical
health, even, maybe look at your house. You know,
a lot of people are dealing with mold in their houses these days in
environmental toxins. They're not even aware of, you know,
so it's really good for even the healthy individual to really, you know,
have a good diet to detox regularly looking at that aspect and then emotional,
you know, and, and psychological, just kind of group those together,
understand trauma, psycho, educate yourself, and trauma,
get a trauma therapist who you really like and feel a connection with, you know,
ultimately healing from trauma should result in a good,
so you'll know that you're kind of somewhat more healed from trauma is if you
have a good self concept and you're,
and you're able to have secure relationships with other people,
that's kind of the barometer. So it's not like a endless thing, you know,
but you wanna have a good self-concept do I like myself?
Do I have good self-esteem and I able to feel connected to other people do I
have secure attachment in my life? It's called earn secure attachment.
So that's kind of the barometer,
but you're gonna have to really start out like really understanding your nervous
system, understanding your adaptations,
understanding what could have happened to you that created these adaptations,
you know, and really just move away from making yourself to be wrong.
And I'm a bad person,
like any relational issue and ongoing pattern that you have you learned from
somewhere. So you wanna really understand like, wow,
interesting that I shut down. Whenever someone opens up to me,
where could that be coming from? How could that I've learned,
learned about that and almost like become really curious.
And I do really recommend, you know, um, working with a therapist and a trauma,
especially one who understands developmental trauma and trauma in general,
who can help you understand how attachment, you know,
your attachment patterns basically. And then there is a spiritual, you know,
like meditation has been proven to shrink the amygdala,
which is something that tends to enlarge as a result of trauma.
So you wanna figure out some mind,
body practice to just basically get you into a parasympathetic state,
a calm and relaxed state. That's not a cure,
all like all of these need to happen at once. You know,
and that's why actually I think that many people would rather just take a pill
and many people don't accept the depressive position. They're like,
I just want someone to come in and fix it, you know?
But the reward that you get out of doing it,
this the holistic way actually is that you just like,
it's like, you literally feel like you have a superpower. Like,
I really feel that people who heal trauma in themselves holistically have a
superpower because it's almost like they faced like a certain like death of the
soul, you know? And they brought,
they basically did a soul retrieval on themselves, you know,
but not to say that they didn't have support,
but like it does give you this kind of psychological, emotional,
spiritual rebirth when you heal from really complex trauma, you know? And so it,
it, it's really important that we understand it's not easy. It's a marathon,
not a race find support systems that help you develop secure
attachment, who understand attachment theory,
who under understand trauma and really don't underestimate the importance of
your health. Like it's so, so, so critical and key.
I know a lot of people who are on very restrictive diets who are not,
who actually start developing anxiety and mood disorders because of their diet.
So you really wanna find a diet that makes you feel strong, calm, healthy,
like really vital and vibrant. So those are just a few things.
Yeah. Basically you summarized what we also call.
Even we do this in our courses,
the fourfold approach of holistic integral self work on all levels, physically,
psychologically, mentally, and spiritually, right.
It needs to happen on all levels.
And the only way out is in and through you made a good point.
It's also on a deep as attack, spiritual level lessons, you know,
whatever we don't heal or learn,
we will have to face at some point in the future life and to suppress and
avoiding it is not learning it. Right. So we just, uh, you know,
basically avoid the inevitable. Yeah. And also have to say,
which will go deep in the second hour. Now, you know,
the pharmaceutical drugs have also, uh,
spiritually metaphysical repercussions on a soul, you know,
detrimentally effects that will,
can also affect the afterlife of future incarnations. So,
and that also ties into the basic control system on the,
on a more the O called reason, uh, why people are,
why they're pushing pharmaceuticals, um, on, on the population,
uh, in light of the matrix control system.
So I wanna dive deep into all that in the second hour.
Yeah. I just wanna end this too, you know,
for anyone who's listening that I really truly believe that all mental
illness is basically curable, even schizophrenia, which, you know, with people,
you know, the psychiatric industry is like, just thinks is a mystery. So,
you know,
to understand that the power is really in our hands and we are in this real
paradigm shift of health, you know, and we really need to get out of this,
pathologization this medicalization of mental illness and thinking it's just a
chemical imbalance in the brain and we can't fix it. That's all wrong. Yeah.
Getting away from the idea that it's a, like I mentioned earlier,
that IST a mental illness. Yes.
Right. It's a process.
It's a process. And you know, what is, you know,
I see a lot of you think Shanti that some way, you know, a lot of people,
they go along with the consensus or matrix you could,
from a spiritual perspective,
you could see them as mentally and spiritually ill. right. Yeah. The,
uh, personality, ego identification, all of that.
So it's also what level you perceive it from. Yes.
So we can go deeper into on the second hour.
And I'm also gonna share my own experiences as well,
navigating the psychiatric in, uh, the psychiatric industry .
Industry. Exactly. Okay. So again, for members, uh,
you have access to the second hour, if you're not a member yet,
and would like to support our work, please go to my website,
veil of reality.com sign up to the membership.
You have access to all the second, uh, hours of the podcast,
where we dive and a lot of more material,
which we cannot really share on the public, um, uh,
outlets for obvious reasons when you listen to them or check out the show notes
as well, if you're interested. And that being said,
so you're on the second hour.