1 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,760 Hello, everyone. 2 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,840 Welcome to your newest episode of the cosmic matrix podcast with your host 3 00:00:25,910 --> 00:00:30,880 myself, Laura Matsu and Barnhard Gunther. And in this episode, 4 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,280 it's gonna be a really in depth episode and we're gonna go into the real 5 00:00:35,430 --> 00:00:38,240 causes of mental illness. 6 00:00:38,650 --> 00:00:40,480 So before we get into that, 7 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:44,720 I just have a little announcement and we are going to do a 8 00:00:44,820 --> 00:00:48,760 masterclass on evolutionary relationships. Uh, 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,000 registration is gonna be open next week, 10 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:55,400 and it's going to be about how to use relationships as a path of awakening. 11 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,720 And we're gonna give you tools on how to do that. 12 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,720 We're gonna give demonstrations, we're gonna talk about different spiritual, uh, 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,920 topics, which are related to, uh, using relationships as a path of evolution. 14 00:01:07,170 --> 00:01:09,280 So if you want to be notified, 15 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:12,600 make sure that you're on Bernhard's mailing list. 16 00:01:12,650 --> 00:01:17,160 So you would go to www.veilofreality.com 17 00:01:17,380 --> 00:01:21,400 and you'll see a little popup to sign up for his newsletter and make sure you 18 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:26,120 sign up, cuz we're gonna announce it next week. So yeah. 19 00:01:26,490 --> 00:01:30,000 So what we're gonna cover in this podcast is pretty vast. 20 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,240 We're gonna begin in the first hour, 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,240 we're gonna talk about how mental illness pretty much in our opinion only has 22 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,600 one diagnosis. We're gonna talk about the DSM, 23 00:01:40,710 --> 00:01:42,840 a brief history of the DSM. 24 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,520 We're gonna talk about how personality disorders are actually adaptations, 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,800 meaning adaptations to an environ, an environment that someone was raised in. 26 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,680 We're gonna talk about what depression is related to and how it's related to 27 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:56,513 trauma. 28 00:01:56,660 --> 00:02:01,480 And we're also gonna talk about how this collective loss of the relationship of 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,600 the divine is also related to the epidemic of mental 30 00:02:06,670 --> 00:02:07,520 unwellness. 31 00:02:07,550 --> 00:02:12,120 I guess you could say that we're having and how to heal from mental illness. 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,400 So we're gonna just give some practical tips, looking at aspects of your health, 33 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,960 physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, and in the second hour, 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,760 we're gonna talk about the history of psychiatry and we're gonna get more into 35 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,480 the Ault entity topic related to the mental illness. 36 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,720 So we're gonna talk about entity attachments, earthbound spirits, 37 00:02:31,860 --> 00:02:35,440 how that relates to mental illness. We're gonna go into Dr. Williams, 38 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,600 Baldwin's work on this as well, as well as Jerry Martin Sinski. Um, 39 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,080 and really just kind of talk about how the spiritual like hidden 40 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,360 dimension can be related to mental illness as well. But before we get into it, 41 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,680 I just have to do a quick disclaimer, 42 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:55,960 Bernhard and I are not medical professionals and we are not giving 43 00:02:56,180 --> 00:02:58,400 any medical advice on this podcast. 44 00:02:59,450 --> 00:03:03,920 So we're just gonna speak from our own experience in hopes that we can, 45 00:03:04,010 --> 00:03:08,560 we can present a different view on mental illness and the consensus view. 46 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:12,280 I'm sure some of this information may not be new to some of you, 47 00:03:12,380 --> 00:03:16,840 but for some of you who maybe are on psychiatric drugs who have been diagnosed 48 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,520 with a mental illness, like, I just want you to know that, you know, 49 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,800 we're not telling you to get off your medication. 50 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,680 We're not telling you that it's all in your head or whatever. 51 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,920 We're just presenting a different perspective to mental illness based on our own 52 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:34,720 experiences, struggling with it. So just a disclaimer, not medical advice, 53 00:03:34,790 --> 00:03:38,840 just take this as information knowledge, it's an opinion, 54 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,880 it's personal opinion and that's it. 55 00:03:42,290 --> 00:03:45,120 So yeah. Where should we begin? 56 00:03:45,710 --> 00:03:50,120 Well, let's start with, um, the big news, which really, um, you know, 57 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,920 was the inspiration for this podcast. Well, big news happened a few weeks ago, 58 00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:57,440 I would say maybe a month ago. And, um, 59 00:03:57,990 --> 00:04:02,520 it's about the depression, serotonin myth, uh, 60 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:07,440 and chemical imbalance or linking depression to chemical imbalance in 61 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,120 the brain, which has been basically the consensus view, 62 00:04:12,690 --> 00:04:16,810 um, on, you know, uh, mainstream psychiatry. 63 00:04:16,810 --> 00:04:21,250 So to speak that a mental illness in particularly depression is related to in 64 00:04:21,490 --> 00:04:22,890 chemical imbalance in the brain, 65 00:04:22,890 --> 00:04:26,410 hence you treated with SSRIs or antidepressants. 66 00:04:26,410 --> 00:04:28,770 What does SSRI stand for again, by. 67 00:04:28,770 --> 00:04:32,530 The way, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, very. 68 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:37,290 you know, that very well. Um, however, um, 69 00:04:37,290 --> 00:04:40,610 there has been some research coming out official research a few weeks ago on 70 00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:42,370 various articles, uh, 71 00:04:42,370 --> 00:04:46,850 basically stating that the official science that depression is linked to a 72 00:04:47,050 --> 00:04:49,690 chemical imbalance in the brain has been officially debunked. 73 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:55,090 And there's even a quote from an official, uh, science paper, uh, um, 74 00:04:55,090 --> 00:04:57,890 stating that depression is not caused, uh, 75 00:04:57,890 --> 00:05:01,010 by chemical imbalance in the brain new study finds. 76 00:05:01,390 --> 00:05:04,330 And the direct quote from this study is, uh, 77 00:05:04,330 --> 00:05:06,170 just to basically summarize it a nutshell, 78 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:11,170 despite the fact that the serotonin theory of depression has been so 79 00:05:11,170 --> 00:05:12,003 influential, 80 00:05:12,340 --> 00:05:16,410 no comprehensive review has yet synthesized the relevant evidence, 81 00:05:16,730 --> 00:05:18,170 which is huge. So basically. 82 00:05:18,170 --> 00:05:19,050 Where is that from again. 83 00:05:19,050 --> 00:05:22,170 That's from, uh, an official government, uh, uh, paper, 84 00:05:22,170 --> 00:05:23,610 you link to it actually in. 85 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:25,970 Oh, it was from the study then from. 86 00:05:25,970 --> 00:05:28,170 The study. Exactly. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, because you made little video, 87 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:29,810 I think on Instagram about. 88 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,730 This topic. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. 89 00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:35,370 Exactly. We can link to that. I'm gonna link to that article in the, uh, 90 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,050 show notes of, of this episode as well. So you guys can check it out, 91 00:05:39,270 --> 00:05:41,610 but basically it's been proving, which I wanna go later, 92 00:05:41,610 --> 00:05:46,330 but Jerry Maki talked about in podcast many years ago that there has been never, 93 00:05:46,330 --> 00:05:47,850 ever, uh, 94 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,050 a scientific proof linking chemical imbalance to depression, 95 00:05:53,150 --> 00:05:54,130 and now it's been, 96 00:05:54,490 --> 00:05:58,160 confirmed so to speak and we have assumed that for so, so long. Yeah. 97 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,320 Right. So that's when I start off that actually that's a huge step, right. 98 00:06:02,470 --> 00:06:06,680 That officially it's acknowledged that depression most likely does not link to 99 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,520 any chemical imbalance. Hence the question of under depress antipsychotic, 100 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,720 uh, antipsychotic drugs and all of. 101 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,480 That. Well, no, but so, you know, this is just related to SSRIs, 102 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,280 right? Like we, they, the, this, this, 103 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:27,000 the antipsychotics that they give them is based on also bunk science that hasn't 104 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,480 ever been proven as well. Right. 105 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,920 Which is antipsychotics are usually more given to people with schizophrenia or 106 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,160 even borderline sometimes, um, sometimes even given people with, 107 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,160 with depression as well, but like, you know, that the, the, the, 108 00:06:41,340 --> 00:06:44,520 the science behind that is also bunk basically. 109 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,600 right. Okay. All of it. We know, we know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 110 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,080 I mean, it's, it's, you know, I mean, there was, again, 111 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,240 there was never really scientific proof of the connection of depression and 112 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,640 chemical imbalance to begin with, 113 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,800 but it was based on big farmer sponsored pseudoscience. Why? 114 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,760 Because just follow the money as always, and question who really profits, uh, 115 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:07,640 in generally from SSRIs and other psych drugs, you know, 116 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,000 and that note a pharmaceutical industry, um, little fact here, um, 117 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,880 is making about 11.7 billion a year on 118 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,240 the sale of anti of psychotropic drugs, drugs, basically. 119 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,400 And one out of six Americans is on some kind of psychotropic. 120 00:07:24,630 --> 00:07:27,920 Drug that's I, I guarantee you it's higher than that. Yeah. 121 00:07:28,030 --> 00:07:32,880 I think it's higher because even I was reading a statistic the other day 122 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,880 that like 15% of children in foster kid foster care under 123 00:07:37,910 --> 00:07:39,600 five we're on an antipsychotic. 124 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:44,000 Wow. Okay. I think it's also increased, especially as we talked on this OC, 125 00:07:44,370 --> 00:07:48,040 um, a few times over the past couple of years, uh, 126 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,240 with this matrix trauma installment program and, and the, you know, 127 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,200 basically psychological warfare, military style Mia ultra program, you know, 128 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,600 of all the lockdowns and gas lighting and, you know, 129 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,800 basically traumatizing the whole population more and more people got on these 130 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,800 drugs and, you know, because of, um, the mental breakdowns. 131 00:08:10,150 --> 00:08:13,320 Well, it's not just that it's been happening for a while. You know, 132 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:18,160 like I actually read that 50% of Americans were on some level of psychiatric 133 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,520 drugs. So mm-hmm, , um, you know, 134 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,400 we've been medicalizing human suffering for the past couple, 135 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:29,720 few decades, whenever, when did, when did, when is the psychia psychiatry? 136 00:08:29,980 --> 00:08:31,680 The DSM started, uh. 137 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,040 That started in 1952. 138 00:08:34,070 --> 00:08:36,360 Okay. Exactly. So this is pretty young, you know, 139 00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:41,440 and personally I've think it was a huge mistake and there's many reasons behind 140 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:41,520 that. 141 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:42,720 I don't think it was a mistake. Wasn't. 142 00:08:42,930 --> 00:08:46,400 No, I mean, intentionally yeah. intentionally. Okay. 143 00:08:46,530 --> 00:08:50,640 So in the eyes of the divine, there are no mistakes. No, 144 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,400 but this was basically when I say mistake, 145 00:08:53,550 --> 00:08:57,480 this did not help the problem. It actually made it worse. Yeah. 146 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,360 And it actually made society worse. That's that's my, that's my hypothesis. 147 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,920 Yeah. It's profited the, the, the pharmaceutical industry, you know? Yes. 148 00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:07,320 All that. So of course, the, 149 00:09:07,350 --> 00:09:11,400 a big part of the pharmaceutical industry and 150 00:09:11,630 --> 00:09:14,840 psychiatry is the DSM, 151 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,240 the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders. 152 00:09:19,340 --> 00:09:23,200 You know, many calls, some people call it also the psychiatry's Bible, 153 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,160 the diagnostic Bible that nobody questions and people just, um, read it. 154 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:33,160 And, uh, or even people go and study psychiatry becomes psychiatrists. They, 155 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,360 they take the information in without you have a questioning where it's coming 156 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,400 from. And it's really fascinating because, you know, 157 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,960 a lot of these labels or mental illnesses that are, um, 158 00:09:43,890 --> 00:09:48,170 described in the DSM are literally made up and based on very unscientific 159 00:09:48,170 --> 00:09:50,570 methods and people just observed, oh, we're gonna call this that, 160 00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:52,090 are we gonna call this bipolar? 161 00:09:52,090 --> 00:09:55,170 We're gonna call this border borderline personality. Yes. 162 00:09:55,170 --> 00:09:59,970 Many personality disorders. Right. Can I just, people just make up. And, uh, 163 00:09:59,970 --> 00:10:01,770 also then basically believing that any, 164 00:10:01,790 --> 00:10:05,730 for the most part mental illness is also caused because of an chemical imbalance 165 00:10:05,730 --> 00:10:08,890 in the brain, which then can be held by a pharmaceutical drugs. 166 00:10:08,980 --> 00:10:10,170 So they made it all up. 167 00:10:10,190 --> 00:10:14,810 And it was basically a group of psychiatrists who were basically 168 00:10:15,070 --> 00:10:19,370 hypothesizing about the personality patterns that they saw in their clients. 169 00:10:19,630 --> 00:10:24,210 And they just, just invented illnesses out of it, basically. Yes. So, and, 170 00:10:24,210 --> 00:10:24,970 and actually, 171 00:10:24,970 --> 00:10:29,690 I don't even think the scientific method itself can get at the mental 172 00:10:29,690 --> 00:10:33,930 illness on top of it because I see it as actually, uh, 173 00:10:34,070 --> 00:10:38,210 has a spiritual dimension, you know? Um, but, okay. 174 00:10:38,210 --> 00:10:41,890 So let me give a quote about this directly from the book, uh, 175 00:10:41,890 --> 00:10:45,090 cracked by James Davies. And this is a really good book. 176 00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:46,930 It talks about the history of psychiatry. 177 00:10:46,930 --> 00:10:51,650 The subtitle is called the unhappy truth about psychiatry. And basically, 178 00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:55,370 you know, he says, he gives this quote from Dr. 179 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,410 Theodore Millon, who was part of the original DSM construction. 180 00:11:00,430 --> 00:11:02,050 And here's what he said about it. 181 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,410 This is directly from someone who was on the original task force of the DSM 182 00:11:06,410 --> 00:11:10,370 mm-hmm . And he says there was very little systematic research. 183 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:15,130 And much of the research that existed was really a hodgepodge scattered, 184 00:11:15,130 --> 00:11:19,970 inconsistent, and ambiguous. I think the majority of us recognized that a, 185 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:24,490 that the amount of good solid science upon which we were making our decisions 186 00:11:24,490 --> 00:11:28,130 was pretty modest. Um, so that's one quote mm-hmm . 187 00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:30,490 And then he says, once I read this quote to Spitzer, 188 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:35,490 who was one of the main leaders on the task force and, and this, and this guy, 189 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:39,570 James days, Davey asked whether he agreed with Milton's statement. And he says, 190 00:11:39,570 --> 00:11:41,250 after a short and uncomfortable silence, 191 00:11:41,260 --> 00:11:45,450 Spitzer responded in a way I didn't expect. So this is one Spitzer, um, 192 00:11:46,180 --> 00:11:50,890 uh, one of the main people behind the Aboriginal DSM. And he says, 193 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,970 well, it's true that for many, 194 00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:56,040 that for many of the disorders that were added there, 195 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,000 wasn't a tremendous amount of research. 196 00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:02,760 And certainly there wasn't research on the particular way that we define these 197 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,560 disorders in the case of millions quote, which is a quote I just gave you. Um, 198 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:11,840 I think he is mainly referring to the personality disorders, but again, 199 00:12:12,130 --> 00:12:16,360 it is certainly true that the amount of research validating data on most 200 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,080 psychiatric disorders is very limited. Indeed. 201 00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:23,440 And then the guy who's interviewing says, so you're saying, I asked, 202 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,680 try not to look shocked that there was little research, 203 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:28,720 not only supporting your inclusion of new disorders, 204 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,000 but also supporting how these disorders should be defined. 205 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,360 And then Spitzer says, um, 206 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,560 there are very few disorders whose definition was the result of specific 207 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,480 research data responded Spitzer for borderline personality. 208 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,640 There was some research that looked at the different ways of defining the 209 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,680 disorder, and we chose that definition. That seemed to be the most valid, 210 00:12:49,940 --> 00:12:52,480 but for the other categories, rarely, 211 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,440 could you say that there was research literature supporting the definition's 212 00:12:56,470 --> 00:13:01,000 validity? So basically, and he goes on later to say, yeah, 213 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,680 we had very little on the way of data. 214 00:13:02,850 --> 00:13:06,240 So we were forced to rely on clinical consensus, 215 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,120 which admittedly in his own words is a very poor way to do things. 216 00:13:10,820 --> 00:13:14,240 And he said basically like, and then the guy asked him, 217 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,000 how was the consensus reached? And he says, we thrashed it out. 218 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,080 Basically we had a three hour argument, 219 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,680 there would be 12 people sitting down at a table. 220 00:13:21,930 --> 00:13:25,000 Usually there was a chairperson, there was somebody taking notes. 221 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,000 And at the end of each meeting, there would be a distribution of events. 222 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,000 And at the next meeting, 223 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,160 some would agree with the inclusion and others would continuing arguing. 224 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,280 And if people were divided the matter would eventually be decided by a vote. 225 00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:40,000 And so this is like, literally it was just 12 people in a room, 226 00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:44,280 just having a discussion about how they could invent different mental illnesses 227 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:45,680 based on what they saw in their practice. 228 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,800 And I'm sure they were also kind of defining certain groups of personality, 229 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,600 adaptations and traits. I'm not saying that it was all nonsense. 230 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,920 Like these are people who working with people who are mentally ill, 231 00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:59,600 but it's really important to understand there's no scientific 232 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:00,960 basis for this. 233 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:01,880 Yeah. So it really goes, 234 00:14:01,930 --> 00:14:05,880 it confirms basically what I've talked about and Jeremy Sinski, 235 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,520 which will talk about more his work. Uh, also the second out, cuz he also, um, 236 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,280 ties into, uh, 237 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,640 mental illness to entity attachments and the real cause of schizophrenia. 238 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,440 All of that I had 'em on my podcast, but basically that the DSM, 239 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,160 which is a BI psychiatrist's Bible of mental illness is literally a work of 240 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,920 fiction where also under important to understand these, uh, 241 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,840 psychiatrists are materialists, right? So it's all about the brain. 242 00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:33,360 So there's no spiritual aspects, you know, 243 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:36,320 nothing even talking about trauma and all of that. 244 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:39,080 And that literally just made up BA uh, labels, as you said, 245 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,600 based on very unscientific methods. Yeah. Um, now, interesting. 246 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:45,440 Another fact also these, 247 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,720 these fabricated so-called mental orders disorders continue to grow. So here's, 248 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,000 it's the DSM one. 249 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,040 The first edition came out in 90, 52 and it listed 106 psychiatric 250 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,313 disorders. 251 00:14:57,780 --> 00:15:01,760 And now fast forward DSM five came out most current one, 252 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,680 2013 and it lists 297 disorders. 253 00:15:07,290 --> 00:15:10,040 So yeah. That's like if, um, 254 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,040 increase of three times and they keep adding the normal disorders, 255 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,120 even like all kinds of I've even remember a few years ago, 256 00:15:17,390 --> 00:15:21,640 some sort of disorder, um, like they have, 257 00:15:22,070 --> 00:15:23,040 I should have looked it up, 258 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,640 but I forgot to do it kind of targeting truth seekers. Right. 259 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,920 If you believe in conspiracies, there's a certain mental disorder you have. 260 00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:30,480 Oh yeah. 261 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,240 Because you don't listen to authority and the consensus mm-hmm 262 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,240 mm-hmm so they just keep up making up shit. 263 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,240 Cause my friends as they go along now yes. On top of it, obviously since, 264 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:44,920 uh, 52 and 52, the pharmaceutical industry has, um, 265 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:49,080 more and more influence into this diagnostic. Um, 266 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,920 way of, of, 267 00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:54,480 of adding personality disorders in the DSM as well because the pharmaceutical 268 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,080 industry is very powerful lobbying, you know, people cashing in. Um, 269 00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:02,400 and I remember even, um, you know, 270 00:16:02,850 --> 00:16:06,520 it means it's somewhat related working at animal hospital, um, 271 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,560 because the animals, they give animals the same drugs, 272 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,320 they give humans just a lower doses and maybe, you know, it's very fascinating. 273 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,280 They give them psychiatric. 274 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,120 Drugs, they give 'em psychiatric drugs and it was fascinating, uh, 275 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,880 to see that they were even given dogs, um, Prozac. Yeah. You know, because of, 276 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,680 they're not cuz they seem sad or like not really active. 277 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,920 So they give them, they assume that dogs are depressed, 278 00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:31,360 have depression and give them, uh, 279 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,240 Prozac and Prozac is very interesting because that was probably the very first 280 00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:40,750 anti-depressant drug that came on the market. Excuse me. 281 00:16:41,170 --> 00:16:45,750 And it was, uh, first came on the market in 1988. 282 00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:51,150 And that's also when the drug company, Ali Lilly who, um, 283 00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:56,670 produced Prozac and announced in 1988 first advanced the 284 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:00,390 chemical imbalance theory. Yeah. So that's when it really took a hold. 285 00:17:00,740 --> 00:17:01,480 Yeah. 286 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,310 So can we go into the trauma piece about it cuz I really wanna talk about, 287 00:17:06,310 --> 00:17:08,190 okay. So then if you know, 288 00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:11,670 we're not denying the fact that people are mentally unwell, 289 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:16,310 I can see it all the time on social media, even in the world, 290 00:17:16,450 --> 00:17:17,750 you know, um, 291 00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:22,350 we're not denying the fact that these there's there isn't something happening in 292 00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:26,590 the collective psyche of most west Western westernized people, 293 00:17:26,590 --> 00:17:28,270 which is pretty much a whole world at this point. 294 00:17:28,730 --> 00:17:33,710 But my personal belief about that is that all of 295 00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:37,670 these diagnosis have one diagnosis. Well, okay. 296 00:17:37,670 --> 00:17:41,390 When you bring in thecut topic, I just wanna say there's a caveat to this, 297 00:17:41,570 --> 00:17:46,510 but for most people who are experiencing personality disorders, 298 00:17:46,860 --> 00:17:49,480 it's, there's one diagnosis and that's trauma. 299 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,480 Basically it goes across the board and I'm gonna read a quote by Gama about 300 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,720 this, where he really sums it up perfectly. 301 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,360 And then I'm gonna talk about how this is true, how I feel this is true. 302 00:18:00,770 --> 00:18:04,880 So he has a great quote when he says all of these medical conditions originate 303 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,480 in trauma, all the diagnosis that you deal with, depression, anxiety, 304 00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:11,200 ADHD, bipolar, 305 00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:15,440 even psychosis are significantly rooted in trauma. 306 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,360 They are manifestations of trauma and therefore the diagnoses don't explain 307 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:20,860 anything. 308 00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:24,560 Now the problem in the medical world is that we diagnose somebody and we think 309 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,760 that that is an explanation he's behaving that way because he's psychotic. 310 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,480 She's behaving that way because she has ADHD, 311 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:35,720 but nobody has ADHD. Nobody has psychosis. 312 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,000 These are processes within the individual. It's not a thing you have. 313 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,480 It's not like you acquire a bacterial infection and now you have pneumonia. 314 00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:46,720 This is a process that explains your life experience. 315 00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:49,480 And it has meaning in every single case, 316 00:18:49,780 --> 00:18:54,160 the diagnoses never get at the meaning. What they do is what the, 317 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,680 what the diagnoses do is they describe something. In other words, 318 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,040 they describe the manifestations of something. For example, 319 00:19:01,310 --> 00:19:04,240 take a diagnosis like borderline personality disorder. 320 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,960 She's like that because she has B BP D no, 321 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,080 she's not like that because she has BPD B P D just describes her coping 322 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:12,640 mechanism. 323 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,720 B BPD stands for borderline personalism. 324 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:15,560 Yes, exactly. 325 00:19:15,610 --> 00:19:20,480 So what I'm saying to you that all diagnoses CS originate in coping 326 00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:21,400 mechanisms. 327 00:19:21,690 --> 00:19:25,040 So basically, uh, just to, in a nutshell, 328 00:19:25,150 --> 00:19:27,720 they mistake symptoms for causes. 329 00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:32,640 Exactly. And you wanna look instead of thinking what's wrong with you, 330 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:34,880 you know, what's wrong with your brain. 331 00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:37,400 You just have a permanent issue with your brain. 332 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,240 That's this pathologization of these processes. 333 00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:45,200 You wanna ask what happened to the person that could have made them develop 334 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,840 this coping mechanism? Yeah. 335 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,640 The only thing I would object and that's definitely, um, 336 00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:51,880 I agree with GOBA Martin, 337 00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:56,080 but there are also instances and that's more the minority, which goes, you know, 338 00:19:56,230 --> 00:20:00,040 more to the call topic because sometimes the disorders can definitely relate 339 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,320 more to responsibility entity attachments, which you talk late on the second or, 340 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,720 but trauma also serves as an entry point and then, you know, um, kind. 341 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,200 Of still related. 342 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:15,080 On some level, but they also, you know, but I also wanna say, um, you know, 343 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,680 from Nicole perspective, Shio, 344 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,440 beendo talked about at Rudd of Stein and his own work as well. They also, uh, 345 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,040 people born, uh, 346 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,160 without a conscience and ties into genetic psychopath and not necessarily 347 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,680 related to any childhood trauma. Yes. But this IST a small minority. 348 00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:36,400 So I wanna make that a point because this is a very small minority, 349 00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:39,880 but we're gonna cover it because that's been our work, you know? Yes. 350 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,080 Is looking at thecut spiritual influence. 351 00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:46,160 One thing we're probably not gonna have time to touch on this topic as well, 352 00:20:46,570 --> 00:20:51,240 is that when you get into evolutionary astrology, there is mental, 353 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,280 spiritual, and emotional, 354 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,800 psychological trauma that can be re imprinted from past 355 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,560 lifetime. So for example, right, 356 00:20:59,690 --> 00:21:03,800 if you were abandoned as a child in a past life, 357 00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:08,480 and then your parents kind of left you at your grandparents one day and you 358 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:09,800 didn't know when they were gonna come back, 359 00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:13,640 even though it's not you being totally abandoned by your family and you never 360 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,280 see them again, that can re imprint the past life trauma in this lifetime. 361 00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:21,160 Yes. So we want like, I mean, you can, like, 362 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,720 I personally like blow this whole thing that it's even happening in the brain 363 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,000 out of the water. I don't think it's happening. 364 00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:32,040 I think also the soul can get traumatized as well. So, you know, 365 00:21:32,290 --> 00:21:37,120 my view goes and, and similar to yours even goes beyond Gamas. 366 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:41,600 Yes. Because I think that there's dimensions spiritual dimensions to trauma, 367 00:21:41,670 --> 00:21:44,360 soul fragmentation, even, you know, 368 00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:49,120 I think the soul can get traumatized as well through certain really 369 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:54,040 intense life experiences and people can come in with that trauma as well. 370 00:21:54,090 --> 00:21:58,800 So we're just gonna look at it from the developmental trauma perspective and 371 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,600 then we can touch on the ATCA aspect in the second hour. 372 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:05,360 Yeah. Also I wanna just point out because we've touched on it in a second. Oh. 373 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,360 But the reason also I wanna be very clear in my work. 374 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:10,720 I talk a lot about hyperdimensional realities entities, 375 00:22:11,260 --> 00:22:15,040 the hyperdimensional manipulation of humanity, unseen forces and whatnot, 376 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,600 finding good, the cold knowledge, 377 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,880 the hidden knowledge and other forces interfering with, uh, the human evolution. 378 00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:25,200 But the reason why we really focus also now specifically on trauma work, 379 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,640 shadow work, and all of that complex PTSD, it's so key. And also, 380 00:22:29,950 --> 00:22:33,640 I agree with you past life. Trauma can be reactivated in a current life, 381 00:22:34,060 --> 00:22:35,360 but the reason you focus, 382 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,680 because that's also most often the entry point for other stuff coming in and 383 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,080 I've noticed in this work, 384 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,280 people jump most often to this whole entity topic way too prematurely, 385 00:22:45,380 --> 00:22:47,600 not knowing the inner their own mind, 386 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,760 never really sincerely engaged in trauma work, shadow work, 387 00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:54,240 and make all kinds of assumptions, but more on that. Yeah. In the second hour. 388 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,680 Well, I'll speak to that piece. 389 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,160 The reason why that's important is because trauma infamously 390 00:23:00,230 --> 00:23:04,400 will either put you in a state of hypervigilance fight or flight or even freeze 391 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,400 state of disassociation. So if you're in that state, 392 00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:13,040 you're going to see all sorts of dangerous stuff everywhere all the time, 393 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,080 because that's how your nervous system is wired. 394 00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:19,880 So you can't even actually be in a grounded enough state to tell if it's a 395 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,440 spiritual interference and tell you're actually regulated yourself is what I'm 396 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:23,880 trying to say. 397 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,440 So it's like you have to work with the body and the nervous system that you 398 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,880 have, get yourself into a safe and secure place yourself, 399 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,520 and then you can work with it. But I mean, 400 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,720 there's a reason that complex trauma is called complex because it is complicated 401 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,840 to heal. It's not like you just, okay, 402 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,480 I'm just gonna meditate and do some Vail nerve toning. And I'm fine. 403 00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:48,080 It's literally a rewiring of these survival adaptations 404 00:23:48,110 --> 00:23:51,960 that your nervous system learned actually kept you safe. 405 00:23:52,330 --> 00:23:55,280 So there's a reason why people, you know, 406 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,120 the processes in borderline personality and schizophrenia of manic, depression, 407 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,400 whatever you wanna call it all describe a coping mechanism that was an 408 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,720 adaptation to some relational experience. That's my feeling about it. Yeah. 409 00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:11,600 So, so, so going back to DSM and Gatis quote, 410 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,960 so basically saying just to summarize it, 411 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,920 all these personalities orders and symptoms yes. 412 00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:21,480 Even borderline personalities, order, ADHD, anxiety, 413 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,960 like whatever they name as a mental illness has its, 414 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,920 its their symptoms has its roots and trauma. Most of originating in childhood. 415 00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:30,360 Yes. 416 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:35,240 And the DSM actually even rejected adding developmental 417 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,000 trauma disorder to it because they even said their self that the 418 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,800 symptoms of developmental trauma overlap too much with other personality 419 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,600 disorders so in their own words, they actually said, 420 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,240 we can't add this cuz it's gonna get rid of all the other definitions. 421 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,120 So it's like it. 422 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,680 Interferes if our work exactly. 423 00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:55,680 And interferes with us expanding our, you know, 424 00:24:55,770 --> 00:24:58,640 so I wanna just give some quotes from develop healing, 425 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,360 developmental trauma by Lawrence Hyer. Um, I'm not sure if I'm. 426 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,520 Pronouncing, can we just maybe just as, um, define developmental trauma. 427 00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:08,480 I'm gonna do that. Yeah. Oh that's that's part of yeah, exactly. Exactly. 428 00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:12,520 So basically C PT S which is complex PTSD. 429 00:25:13,230 --> 00:25:15,520 This is a quote from healing, developmental trauma. 430 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,440 It's being used as a catch shell for both ongoing interpersonal trauma for 431 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,400 children and adults and the impacts of childhood trauma on adults. 432 00:25:24,810 --> 00:25:29,720 So CPS D particular focus on like affects three areas of life. 433 00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,760 Self-organization meaning the way that you connect and relate to yourself, 434 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,640 emotional regulations, self-concept and relationships. 435 00:25:36,810 --> 00:25:41,480 Whereas developmental trauma in particular is basically based on 436 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,200 relational disruptions during childhood that affect affected 437 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,560 child. Uh, child's sense of self complex trauma is an umbrella term. 438 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,240 That includes basically later relational disruptions to one sense of self. 439 00:25:55,330 --> 00:25:56,720 So like, you know, 440 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,080 the developmental trauma happens very young in your developmental years 441 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:00,680 basically. 442 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,640 And then complex trauma would be ongoing trauma that can actually kind 443 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,960 of, um, link up with that. So if you have developmental trauma, chances are, 444 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,680 you've also experienced complex trauma later on because your developmental 445 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,600 trauma would most likely actually make you seek out situations that would create 446 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,160 more trauma for you later on. 447 00:26:20,380 --> 00:26:24,680 And also it's really important to understand that the field of complex trauma 448 00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:27,640 is basically related to attachment theory. 449 00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:31,720 So it's about how attachment relationships impact child development. 450 00:26:32,050 --> 00:26:35,040 So we wanna look at that and that's ongoing too. You know, 451 00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:37,640 so disorganized attachment for example, 452 00:26:37,650 --> 00:26:40,440 is highly linked with BT B P D for example. 453 00:26:40,890 --> 00:26:45,400 So attachment theory complex PTSD are really highly 454 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,400 interlinked essentially. And so, you know, 455 00:26:48,850 --> 00:26:53,480 it was really a long time before they even put PTSD into 456 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:55,480 the DSM itself. That was, 457 00:26:55,690 --> 00:26:58,720 it was a long time before they even allowed that to go in, you know, 458 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,600 because they even, they, the, 459 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,960 the mainstream medical model tended to deny trauma for a really long time. 460 00:27:05,020 --> 00:27:08,800 And if you look at the, uh, child rearing practices, even in the fifties, 461 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,800 like let the baby cry it out. You know, 462 00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:15,480 we had all of these kind of basically pathological ways of raising 463 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,880 children based on the medicalization of birth, essentially. So, you know, 464 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,000 it was a really big shift when they actually put PTSD 465 00:27:25,470 --> 00:27:29,680 into the DSM. And by the way, complex PTSD is I, I don't believe is in the, 466 00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:34,440 in the DSM anymore. And then Judith Herman has a really good quote about this, 467 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:39,360 you know, where she defines it. And she wrote this book, uh, this, uh, 468 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:42,840 trauma book, sorry, the name is, uh, not in my mind right now, 469 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,200 but she has this great quote where she says the diagnosis of post-traumatic 470 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,080 stress disorder does not fit accurately enough in survivors of prolonged 471 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:52,920 repeated trauma. 472 00:27:53,260 --> 00:27:57,920 The symptom picture is often far more complex survivors of abusing 473 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,080 childhood develop characteristic, personality changes, 474 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,160 including deformation of relatedness and identity. In addition, 475 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,160 they are particularly vulnerable to repeated harm both self-inflicted and at the 476 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:12,993 hands of others, 477 00:28:13,180 --> 00:28:18,080 the syndrome that follows upon prolonged repeated trauma needs its own name. 478 00:28:18,150 --> 00:28:21,120 I propose to call it complex post-traumatic stress. 479 00:28:21,970 --> 00:28:23,360 So complex, 480 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,440 traumatic stress is basically long term exposure to relational and 481 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,440 emotional trauma in which you didn't have any control to escape from for no 482 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,120 self agency. Meaning your parents basically. 483 00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:40,080 So when your parents are not meeting your needs and not attuned to, 484 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,920 or even worse or abused, you have a family, 485 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,480 who's a member who's addicted to has a mental illness. 486 00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:49,360 The child actually tends to disconnect from themselves in order to adapt to the 487 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,130 environment. 488 00:28:50,130 --> 00:28:55,120 So that's the first trauma that happens any moment where you were forced to 489 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,760 disconnect from your own feelings, 490 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,920 your own self in order to adapt to an unhealthy environment that is 491 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:01,800 developmental trauma. 492 00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:04,880 Yeah. On that note, I would even argue or say, 493 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,560 I've written about this before as well. 494 00:29:06,750 --> 00:29:10,200 That there's not just no such thing as mental illness, 495 00:29:11,090 --> 00:29:15,700 nobody's mentally ill. These are coping mechanisms, trauma responses, 496 00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:19,540 symptoms, right? Exactly. There's nothing wrong in your brain other than, 497 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,580 you know, and even like what you just mentioned, 498 00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:24,580 some of these trauma responses we have, even the, we, 499 00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:26,180 we talked about a previous podcasts, 500 00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:29,380 like the fight and flight freeze and fun disassociating, 501 00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:34,300 or even other behaviors because of the, uh, PTSD. 502 00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:39,940 We're very necessary at that moment of the trauma to protect ourselves. 503 00:29:39,940 --> 00:29:40,470 Exactly. 504 00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:43,840 So we need to understand there's nothing wrong with these reactions because they 505 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,160 help us survive. Yes. Right. The fight and flight disassociating, it was not, 506 00:29:48,450 --> 00:29:50,600 uh, we needed to escape in the head disassociate. 507 00:29:50,610 --> 00:29:55,040 It was not safe to share our feelings, our emotions and whatnot. Right? 508 00:29:55,050 --> 00:29:59,920 So these are valid psych reactions of the mind 509 00:30:00,210 --> 00:30:03,800 to disassociate, to protect ourselves on a psychological emotion, 510 00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:07,800 even physical level. The only problem is with complex PTSD, 511 00:30:08,770 --> 00:30:09,760 it stays within, 512 00:30:10,180 --> 00:30:15,160 and we then unconsciously have these reactions to even safe situations in 513 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,160 the future. And it becomes more embedded in the psyche. Well, yeah, 514 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,680 but it's not a mental illness. 515 00:30:19,810 --> 00:30:21,600 No, no, no. Like it's like an, 516 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,560 it's like a survival based personality adaptation that served you 517 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,800 well in some environment and keep in mind that it can happen beyond early 518 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,960 childhood. A can be of like a terrible relationship. 519 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,680 But if you're attracted a terrible relationships, 520 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,240 it's also related to developmental trauma. So they overlap a lot, you know? 521 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,680 Yeah. But the issue is, is the focus on the symptoms and the behavior. 522 00:30:43,170 --> 00:30:46,360 It doesn't look at the underlying cause on why this happened. 523 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:51,200 So there's a reason why anyone developed any negative self concept, 524 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,040 negative relationship, relationship, traits, it all serves a purpose. 525 00:30:55,140 --> 00:30:59,120 But then later on it's like this outdated program that keeps running, you know, 526 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,160 so for example, you know, for people who have had, um, you know, 527 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,200 loss of trust or, uh, abusive childhoods or whatever, you know, 528 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,800 they learn not to trust early on because of course, 529 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,040 like they learn not to trust cuz the adults around them were not reliable or 530 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,720 safe, but then later on they will not trust anyone in life. 531 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,400 Even if that person has proven to be trustworthy because that adaptation is 532 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:22,720 still right. 533 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:23,400 And then, you know, 534 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,200 not trusting yourself and not trusting life and living this perpetual fear. 535 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,400 Yeah. Right. And paranoia. Yeah. 536 00:31:29,450 --> 00:31:34,000 So we really, so we really wanna understand complex trauma. 537 00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:37,600 So, and we wanna understand the adaptations, you know, 538 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,440 and it's really important to understand PT C PTSD. 539 00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:46,440 So complex PTSD basically focuses on impairments on 540 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,840 the ability to regulate your emotions. So it's about dysregulation. 541 00:31:50,890 --> 00:31:54,720 So you wanna understand, you know, how, you know, 542 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,880 basically how triggered you get in everyday life essentially. 543 00:31:58,330 --> 00:32:02,840 So you wanna look at like how your nervous system gets activated in certain 544 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,080 situations, how you tend to check out how you tend to freeze also, you know, 545 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,840 issues with self-regulation tends to lead with issues with eating, sleeping, 546 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,480 sexuality, impulse control, how it shows up is depression, anxiety, 547 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,480 numbing, pain, difficulty relating to the world, difficulty relating to, um, 548 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,440 you know, uh, authorities or whatever. There's so many ways it shows up, 549 00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:29,360 but basically it's a disconnection from the self and it is disconnection from 550 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,940 healthy attachment essentially. So, you know, it's really important. 551 00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:39,320 We have to first understand how did this person in 552 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,480 front of us, how did I adapt to this relational trauma? 553 00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:46,720 What are the impacts of the adaptations on my nervous system, 554 00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:48,640 on my disconnection himself, 555 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,240 on my disconnection from relationships and how actually the suffering 556 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,000 underlying all of these adaptations is really a deep desire for connection. 557 00:32:58,550 --> 00:33:02,360 Okay. So that's kind of what the, where the healing comes from. 558 00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:06,360 And just to kind of like riff a little bit, you know, so borderline, 559 00:33:06,510 --> 00:33:11,040 borderline personality is basically highly related to disorganized attachment. 560 00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:13,760 I, I hate you, but don't leave me kind of thing. 561 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,440 That's disorganized attachment manic depression for example, 562 00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:22,000 is issues regulating emotions. And I can speak from personal experience. 563 00:33:22,570 --> 00:33:26,040 So I lived in an environment that was very emotionally chaotic. 564 00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:29,360 Like either it was amazing or it was awful. 565 00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:33,040 And so I was later diagnosed with manic depression. 566 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,560 And where did I learn to have such dysregulated emotions? 567 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,640 I learned it from my early childhood environment and then schizophrenia is 568 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,200 actually extreme splitting basically. 569 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,480 So the psyche literally splits and enters into a different world. 570 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,400 So we'll talk about that more in the second hour, 571 00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:52,960 but it's really important that we understand basically instead of what's wrong 572 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,440 with you, what happened to you? 573 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,400 And we wanna look at how any symptoms that they diagnose as mental illnesses 574 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,320 are basically survival strategies that we learn to deal with unresolved trauma 575 00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:08,480 and people are really doing the best they can given the circumstances that they 576 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:08,960 grew up in. 577 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,960 So it really actually removes this pathologization and medicalization of 578 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,080 mental illness. And instead it looks at like, 579 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,320 what kind of personality adaptations does this person have? 580 00:34:19,580 --> 00:34:21,800 How could it that help them survive early on? 581 00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:25,800 And how can we get them back into a safe and connected space within themselves 582 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,000 and within their relationships? 583 00:34:27,310 --> 00:34:29,240 Yeah. You make a good point. I want us, 584 00:34:29,350 --> 00:34:32,840 especially nowadays these personalities orders are being thrown, right. 585 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,000 Even the quote, true movement, conscious movement. 586 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,880 People like just use it to insult people. You know, even like Amber heard, 587 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,560 for example, I mean, this is a mainstream thing. She got Dr. 588 00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:45,040 Got diagnosed with a B BPT, borderline personal disorder. 589 00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:48,200 She exhibits all the symptoms probably has been lying all around, 590 00:34:48,780 --> 00:34:53,040 but she also exhibited this attachment, um, issue, you know. 591 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,040 Disorganized attachment. 592 00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:57,480 It's so clear. And like it's all the signs point into that. 593 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,200 Also these are symptoms based on trauma, right? Yes. But then people, you know, 594 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,120 shed a project on her, you know, like, you know, it, it really like, you know, 595 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,240 insult her in many different ways. And that's, 596 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:11,520 I'm not saying that people need to be held, 597 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,320 not held accountable for whatever they did wrong and whatnot, 598 00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:17,240 but there's some deeper issue. And I can relate to that as well, 599 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:19,400 because I've been in a relationship many, many years ago, 600 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,200 but somebody got diagnosed with B P D. Right. But I can see underlying, 601 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,320 there was a lot of trauma she had in childhood early on. Yeah. 602 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,240 That developed that personality. So the, you know, 603 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:35,200 the problem we have right now with the DSM is that they pathologize these 604 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,720 processes and understand there's also the need for the human mind to categorize, 605 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:41,960 to label for language. Right? Yeah. 606 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,760 So sometimes I'm using also like an N P D narcissistic personal disorder 607 00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:51,320 or, uh, borderline personal disorder, all these, like you can use them, 608 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,920 you know, in the terms of to label. 609 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,000 Like their archetypes at this. 610 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,360 Point, they almost archetypes. But understanding there are, um, 611 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,200 there are coping mechanisms based on trauma for the most part. 612 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:02,560 Yeah. 613 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,280 Which automatically should bring you to a more compassionate framework to your 614 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,040 own. If you've been diagnosed with a mental illness, 615 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,800 if you know someone with mental illness, 616 00:36:11,970 --> 00:36:16,080 it doesn't mean that you don't make boundaries or you make excuses for their 617 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,240 behavior. You know, 618 00:36:17,630 --> 00:36:22,400 I also think that there's been this whole wave of like people destigmatizing 619 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,280 mental illness, 620 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,480 but the issue with that is in the destigmatization they've overly 621 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,520 identified with the mental illness. So like I'm B, 622 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,680 P D I'm this and this and this. And they literally take it as a badge of honor, 623 00:36:34,740 --> 00:36:39,240 you know? And so we have almost the opposite direction of people, you know, 624 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:43,640 we've quote unquote destigmatized mental illness, according to, you know, 625 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,800 the consensus. But then along with it, 626 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,280 we've made people overly identify with the mental illness and see it as a life 627 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:50,930 sentence. 628 00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:51,920 Exactly. The, 629 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,200 the identification of the label is also the trap of itself or using it as a 630 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,600 weapon. You see many people even like they blame their partner, like, oh, 631 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,920 she's a BPD or he's a narcissist. Yes. Right. The demonizing of the partner, 632 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,080 getting yourself in the victim consciousness and not like having compassion, 633 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,800 that sense, having compassion for the trauma what's underlying it. Yeah. Right. 634 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,280 Doesn't mean that you don't make boundaries doesn't mean that you don't, 635 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,120 you know, just go along with it, but also then self reflecting, 636 00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:23,240 how come special relationship you were attracted to this person to begin with? 637 00:37:23,490 --> 00:37:26,680 Or how did, why did you attract this person into your life, uh, 638 00:37:26,770 --> 00:37:28,000 to begin with as well? 639 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,840 Because a lot of relationships we engage in are based on unconscious attraction 640 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,280 based on unconscious trauma. There are a lot of trauma bonding. 641 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:36,160 Yes, exactly. 642 00:37:36,810 --> 00:37:41,320 So let's talk a little bit particularly about depression and the yeah. And the, 643 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,720 because I think that's probably the most common thing I think is also personally 644 00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:50,400 it's part of the human condition. Is it okay? We, we move on to this. Yeah. Um, 645 00:37:50,490 --> 00:37:54,960 so I wanna first start by giving a definition about the depressive 646 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,000 position, which is from, uh, Melanie Klein. Okay. 647 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,760 So she talks about an important stage in the child's development, 648 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,800 which includes the depressive position. 649 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,720 So the depressive position is basically a mental constellation 650 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:15,000 that she defines is first experience in the first year of the child's life. 651 00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:19,080 And it's repeatedly revisited throughout childhood and adulthood. 652 00:38:19,370 --> 00:38:24,000 So it's central to this realization is when the child realizes 653 00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:29,040 that the mother is also is an object of love and an also an object of 654 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,720 hate. So it's this confluence of the thing that I love is also not, you know, 655 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,040 the thing that I don't, that I hate, 656 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:40,120 the thing that gives me anxiety creates basically this paradox within the child, 657 00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:44,520 and then that's used in different ways in, in later development, basically. 658 00:38:44,850 --> 00:38:48,760 So basically, uh, and now I'm quoting Mark Jones. Who's actually, uh, 659 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,880 one of my mentors and psychosynthesis where he talks about that. 660 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,800 The maturation of the adult also includes this depressive position 661 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,240 and the ability to handle paradox. 662 00:38:58,850 --> 00:39:03,040 So any deeper human love has to include the depressive position. 663 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,160 So this is when you realize that the person you love is also a source of pain 664 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,960 for you. So it's almost like the acknowledgement of basic suffering in Buddhism. 665 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,080 It means that you realize that you can't depend on being happy from someone 666 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,720 else, basically that people are not there to, 667 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:20,480 just to meet your narcissistic needs. 668 00:39:20,890 --> 00:39:24,480 So as soon as we see the world as all good or all bad, 669 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,080 we're in this position of psychic splitting, 670 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:31,000 and we're not accepting the maturity of the depressive position. So basically, 671 00:39:31,140 --> 00:39:34,600 you know, and this is Mark Jones quote, he says to individuate, 672 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,120 you actually have to accept the depressive position. 673 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,680 So you have to accept that your parents were not the best in the world. 674 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,680 Maybe they could have been better, but they weren't. 675 00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:45,880 You have to accept that people are not all good or all bad, 676 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,960 but often a little bit of both and that no one will magically rescue you from 677 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,440 your pain. That life includes. So life includes suffering. 678 00:39:53,530 --> 00:39:55,840 It includes paradox and it's hard. 679 00:39:56,010 --> 00:39:59,840 So this is a maturation process that depression represents. 680 00:40:00,290 --> 00:40:05,160 So accepting this depressive position and being mature with it is the 681 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,400 point of depression. 682 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,760 So there's implicit maturation associated with depression. 683 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,040 There's a reason that Saturn and astrology represents depression and maturation. 684 00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:17,400 And it's about recognizing that no, 685 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,880 one's gonna save me from this being human is hard. 686 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,760 It's all on me and there's pain in, in that. 687 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,360 And that will liberate you from life. 688 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,640 But accepting that depression as part of life is actually part of a healthy ego. 689 00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:33,400 Yeah, I can relate to that. So there's also, again, 690 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,400 depression is part of life is actually a function of the psyche. 691 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,120 So to speak in the maturation process of the soul as well, 692 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,760 the individuation process ties into maximum alienation maximum, uh, 693 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,720 what is the other one isolation isolation, right. Um, 694 00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:51,960 but I wanna share this for my own experience because I can see too far because I 695 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,560 was definitely dealing with severe depression, this, 696 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,760 this span and suicidal tendencies, 697 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,960 especially in my early twenties throughout my twenties, really. Um, 698 00:41:01,070 --> 00:41:02,320 that really also that, 699 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,520 that depression actually was the catalyst that got me into the work I'm doing 700 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,080 right now of questioning what's going in the world. Who am I? 701 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,040 Because I really had to figure myself out. Otherwise I would, I would, 702 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,760 I would've died. That's really the voice that came into my mind. I was, 703 00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:17,280 you know, dealing a lot of free states. 704 00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:22,560 I realize now that the depression I was dealing with was also trauma response. 705 00:41:22,590 --> 00:41:25,640 It's a free state, right. A free state, free state. That's another piece that I, 706 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:26,440 that yeah, exactly. 707 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,560 Depression is the free state. Right. In a sense. 708 00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:31,760 Yeah, because you're, you're, you're, you're so frozen. 709 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,440 Like you have to understand that underneath depression is anger. 710 00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:39,400 So you need to, actually, the depression is like, almost like an, 711 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,680 a state of activation that's gone on so long that you're now frozen in this 712 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,200 state of. 713 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:44,360 Suppression, 714 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,280 because I can relate that because there've been phases when I was just laying in 715 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,720 fetus position in bed, just crying, not, not having no energy, no motivation, 716 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,200 no life force nothing. I was just, yes, exactly. 717 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,360 Also was loathing self-loathing right. Yes. 718 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,200 Like really all poor me kind of thing. Yeah. So all of that now, 719 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,520 knowing what I know about my own history, going deeper into my own psyche and, 720 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,640 and widening my perspective. 721 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,360 A lot of it was a trauma response in the sense right. 722 00:42:08,930 --> 00:42:13,360 Of missing need certain developmental needs that were not met, you know, 723 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,920 growing up and all of that. Right. 724 00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:16,680 What age did that happen to you? 725 00:42:17,590 --> 00:42:20,340 Uh, the depression. Yeah. That was in my early twenties. 726 00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:21,940 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So do you. 727 00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:22,700 Think to myTurn. 728 00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:24,660 Return, do you think it was actually also, 729 00:42:24,660 --> 00:42:29,220 can you see it being part of like maturing into adulthood too and having to 730 00:42:29,220 --> 00:42:31,540 accept the craftiness of life too? Exactly. 731 00:42:31,540 --> 00:42:34,700 So that's that's I came to realize, so in my whole process, 732 00:42:34,770 --> 00:42:39,740 I could see a partly trauma response, but also I realized that the depression, 733 00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:42,900 especially I was dealing with for many others, maybe as well, even quote, 734 00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:47,060 unquote, other psychological issues people are being labeled are. In fact, 735 00:42:47,060 --> 00:42:51,260 sometimes I see as a normal reaction to growing up in a society, 736 00:42:51,260 --> 00:42:55,220 that's very much removed from nature and spirit. Exactly. You know, the, 737 00:42:55,220 --> 00:42:58,820 the quote came to mind what really helped in this process. And I've, 738 00:42:58,820 --> 00:42:59,940 I've mentioned this quote many times, 739 00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:03,340 but it had a profound effect in my life when I first came across it in the, 740 00:43:03,340 --> 00:43:06,300 in the nineties as by Christian Morty, you know, 741 00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:09,900 and he's saying it's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly 742 00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:12,340 sick society. And that's what I was trying to do. 743 00:43:12,340 --> 00:43:14,940 I was comparing myself to society. I was trying to fit in, 744 00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:16,900 but it brought more depression. It didn't fit. 745 00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,740 It was like a contradiction mm-hmm mm-hmm and that's 746 00:43:19,740 --> 00:43:22,100 where the, um, depression came from. Right. 747 00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:26,220 So I saw it almost now I realized that depression in that sense is a healthy 748 00:43:26,650 --> 00:43:27,660 sign of a healthy, 749 00:43:27,980 --> 00:43:32,980 spiritual immune system to reject the pathogen of cult and influences 750 00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:36,260 of a, uh, society where pathologies have become normalized. 751 00:43:36,260 --> 00:43:39,340 Well, that's kind of like the Mark Jones, you know, exactly to accentuate, 752 00:43:39,340 --> 00:43:41,700 you have to have accepted the depressive position. 753 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,980 And this is actually probably the main issue that I have with the, 754 00:43:44,980 --> 00:43:48,100 a lot of the people in the spiritual community, because, 755 00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:50,260 or maybe not the spiritual community I'm in, 756 00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:52,740 but the kind of like new age love and light crew, you know, 757 00:43:52,750 --> 00:43:56,660 because I don't accept the depressive position. Like, oh, it's all love. 758 00:43:56,660 --> 00:44:00,180 It's all one and whatever. It's like, no life is hard. 759 00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:03,980 Sometimes life includes suffering. Like I'm with the Buddhist on this, you know, 760 00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:07,900 if you accept that, actually the easier life will get. 761 00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:11,540 But if you live in a state of psychological splitting where life is either all 762 00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:14,260 good or all bad people are either good or all bad, 763 00:44:14,290 --> 00:44:18,180 you've not accepted the basic depression. Yeah. The basic suffering of life, 764 00:44:18,180 --> 00:44:18,740 essentially. 765 00:44:18,740 --> 00:44:19,340 Yeah, exactly. 766 00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:23,660 And this process became also very clear to me that depression had nothing to do 767 00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:26,020 with chemical imbalance in my brain. 768 00:44:26,020 --> 00:44:27,820 If I would've gone back then to a psychiatrist, 769 00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:32,560 they would've put me on some sort of SSRI and antidepressant. Yes. Right. 770 00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:37,280 Uh, but for me, depression came was for the most part, 771 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,640 it's like a Cryer call from the soul or spirit begging for attention. Yeah. 772 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,040 Right. That's really what, 773 00:44:43,070 --> 00:44:46,480 what I realized and the only way out was in and through. 774 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,320 So I also learned only to allow myself, I mean, 775 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,360 I had my face of self-indulgence listening to very depressive music or, 776 00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:54,880 you know, S and chains and all. 777 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,160 But how was that helping you. 778 00:44:56,550 --> 00:45:00,720 That two in two ways it was helping me on some level I could relate, you know, 779 00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:01,640 on an emotional level, 780 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,440 especially music allowed me myself to feel those feelings. That's. 781 00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:07,000 That. 782 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,600 Was a key point. Yeah. Can I say something to that though? 783 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,000 That's really important because in order to actually get outta the depression, 784 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,480 you actually have to slowly Penate between allowing yourself to feel the more 785 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:21,040 intense feelings, including anger, including the grief. And you have to kind of, 786 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,200 and the music actually helped you get outta the depression because it helped you 787 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,160 get outta the free state through process in the emotions. 788 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,720 Exactly. Well, thank you for sharing. And then also being musician, 789 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:33,080 expressing myself, playing in bands, drums, expressing that, uh, 790 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,880 creatively helped me a lot also dance. So that was my, uh, especially drumming, 791 00:45:37,940 --> 00:45:41,080 you know, to, to really like process these emotions and listen, 792 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,560 music has a big effect on it. The other side of the coin though, 793 00:45:44,930 --> 00:45:48,920 is I saw myself also sometimes, especially, you know, this, the emo thing, 794 00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:52,200 I was never into email, but more to like grand, um, was, yeah, 795 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,600 I grew up on E chains, sound garden, more heavier music as well, Metallica, 796 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,120 Panera, but I could bury myself emotionally, 797 00:45:59,380 --> 00:46:04,360 but I saw myself then also indulging in it and kind of getting stuck in it. 798 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,320 Right. Almost identifying more with that stage. So. 799 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,960 Do you didn't so can I just ask you applying trauma theory, did you Penate, 800 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:12,680 did you like, 801 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,440 just pendulate like into the bad feelings and not kind of pendulate into 802 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,240 feelings of neutrality or relief, cause that would be the ideal trauma healing. 803 00:46:20,250 --> 00:46:24,640 So you would go into the intense death metal or, you know, 804 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,560 the music to help you process the feelings, 805 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,440 but then you would go out of it into either a state of neutral feeling or a 806 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,200 state of neutrality and that would help you process the emotions. 807 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,600 That's that's a good, very good question. 808 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,280 I can see both sometimes getting stuck in it and more indulging in it. So. 809 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,000 You were ululating. 810 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,640 It. Yeah. But then also help to transmute it. 811 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,760 And I feel actually relieved and lighter. Yes. 812 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,280 Like pro like really processing it. Yes. 813 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,880 But the key point would help me in this process as well, 814 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,560 because a lot of the ban bands are like, then they died of drug overdoses. 815 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,080 They killed themselves, you know, they kind of got stuck in all of that. Yeah. 816 00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,600 Right. Yeah. Um, 817 00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:03,880 but what helped me then was also doing the psychological work that, you know, 818 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,400 my own child confronting that, 819 00:47:05,460 --> 00:47:09,280 but bringing in the spiritual aspect mm-hmm , which is very key. 820 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,080 Like that's why I wanna address as well because only the psychological process 821 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,560 finding good, but you can always get stuck in childhood, you know, of digging, 822 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,880 digging, digging in psychoanalysis, which can be a trap in itself. 823 00:47:21,290 --> 00:47:24,840 If you don't bring the spiritual aspect, not only aspiration to the divine, 824 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,840 but to ask to your true self, the ultimate questions, who am I beyond this, 825 00:47:29,530 --> 00:47:30,560 uh, personality? 826 00:47:30,750 --> 00:47:31,880 Well, that's the whole, 827 00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:36,400 I think issue is that we have removed spirit. 828 00:47:36,850 --> 00:47:41,800 We have removed the sacred from part of the consensus reality because we are in 829 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,600 this materialistic age and that's actually, 830 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,520 what's causing a lot of this mental illness, I think. Yeah. 831 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:52,040 That's the underlying thing is if you remove what connects people to all of life 832 00:47:52,510 --> 00:47:55,240 then, and, and their relationship with the higher power, 833 00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:59,680 then you actually remove the main reason why we're here essentially, you. 834 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,400 Know, you know, on that note as well even, 835 00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:04,960 I can see it in you being both together even to this day. I still have, 836 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,800 sometimes I'm depressed here in little things, melancholic stuff comes up, 837 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,240 it's their send and descent, you know, I'm not always like happy, 838 00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:15,840 love and light and like motivated. Sometimes I go down in depth into the cave, 839 00:48:16,070 --> 00:48:19,640 into the underworld myself, and I feel even what's happening in the world, 840 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,640 it gets to me and all of that. But I've learned to transmute it, 841 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,960 to sit for the beaver that, and even, uh, con you know, 842 00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:31,440 get inspired by it creatively. Yeah. Right. That a lot of my work is based on, 843 00:48:32,020 --> 00:48:32,670 you know, 844 00:48:32,670 --> 00:48:36,480 pain and suffering to kind of find the solution to find my way out of it, 845 00:48:36,490 --> 00:48:38,000 through these processes, 846 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,720 through understanding and kind of use it as a motivation, in a sense to, 847 00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:45,320 uh, embrace life more. Yeah. If. 848 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,720 That makes sense. Yeah, exactly. So let's, let me, 849 00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:52,080 let's just talk about let you know, we're not gonna give people, uh, 850 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,720 answers on how to get off psychiatric drugs or whatever, 851 00:48:55,780 --> 00:48:58,400 but I'm just gonna speak for my own experience, 852 00:48:58,820 --> 00:49:03,640 how I helped myself heal from major mental illness and trauma, 853 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,000 and I'm still working on it. Now. 854 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,960 I still have exaggerated startle responses at someone like sneaks up on me or 855 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,440 something, you know, there's still leftover signs. 856 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,120 So I just want people to know that healing trauma is a marathon. 857 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,600 It's not a race. In fact, if you make it into a race, 858 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,720 you're gonna add another layer of trauma on top of your already agitated nervous 859 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:24,480 system. So, um, 860 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,880 let's look at some pieces and then I wanna hear how you related to this too. 861 00:49:29,070 --> 00:49:29,560 Okay. 862 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,440 So first you really have to look at all aspects of your health. 863 00:49:35,090 --> 00:49:37,400 So this is gonna begin with the physical. 864 00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:42,240 So if you were on psychiatric drugs, other drugs, 865 00:49:42,490 --> 00:49:43,680 et cetera, you know, 866 00:49:43,950 --> 00:49:47,960 I know Kelly broken actually has a detox protocol from psychiatric drugs. 867 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,760 People wanna look into that as well. 868 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,640 She has a whole program that she helps people taper off, you know, 869 00:49:53,060 --> 00:49:57,240 but regardless. So if you're wanting to, you have to get your body in shape, 870 00:49:57,550 --> 00:50:00,920 especially if you were using psychiatric drugs, like that's what I had to do. 871 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,920 I had to detox. I was going hard every day. I was detoxing. I'm not even joking. 872 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,440 You have to stay away from processed food. You have to stay away from seed oils. 873 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,160 You have to get daily exercise. You have to sweat meditation, you know, 874 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,960 all of the aspects of your physical health need to be. 875 00:50:16,550 --> 00:50:19,320 I think basically almost like pristine, you know, 876 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,080 you don't wanna go into like some weird paranoid orthorexia thing as well, 877 00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:27,600 but you really gotta clean up and detox your body. That's the first step. 878 00:50:28,050 --> 00:50:28,400 Um, 879 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,520 because actually I notice a lot of people who have especially more severe mental 880 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,200 illnesses, they have terrible diets as well, you know, 881 00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:40,720 and they're also probably attracted to these toxic foods because of toxicity in 882 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:41,490 their body too. 883 00:50:41,490 --> 00:50:46,400 So do not discount the physical environment and do your physical 884 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,360 health, even, maybe look at your house. You know, 885 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,160 a lot of people are dealing with mold in their houses these days in 886 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,160 environmental toxins. They're not even aware of, you know, 887 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,240 so it's really good for even the healthy individual to really, you know, 888 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:03,160 have a good diet to detox regularly looking at that aspect and then emotional, 889 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,240 you know, and, and psychological, just kind of group those together, 890 00:51:08,350 --> 00:51:11,600 understand trauma, psycho, educate yourself, and trauma, 891 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,000 get a trauma therapist who you really like and feel a connection with, you know, 892 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,040 ultimately healing from trauma should result in a good, 893 00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:23,880 so you'll know that you're kind of somewhat more healed from trauma is if you 894 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,240 have a good self concept and you're, 895 00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,760 and you're able to have secure relationships with other people, 896 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,800 that's kind of the barometer. So it's not like a endless thing, you know, 897 00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:36,080 but you wanna have a good self-concept do I like myself? 898 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,160 Do I have good self-esteem and I able to feel connected to other people do I 899 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,360 have secure attachment in my life? It's called earn secure attachment. 900 00:51:43,570 --> 00:51:45,200 So that's kind of the barometer, 901 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,720 but you're gonna have to really start out like really understanding your nervous 902 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:51,200 system, understanding your adaptations, 903 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,120 understanding what could have happened to you that created these adaptations, 904 00:51:55,140 --> 00:51:59,120 you know, and really just move away from making yourself to be wrong. 905 00:51:59,220 --> 00:52:00,400 And I'm a bad person, 906 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:05,160 like any relational issue and ongoing pattern that you have you learned from 907 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,720 somewhere. So you wanna really understand like, wow, 908 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,880 interesting that I shut down. Whenever someone opens up to me, 909 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,120 where could that be coming from? How could that I've learned, 910 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,200 learned about that and almost like become really curious. 911 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,920 And I do really recommend, you know, um, working with a therapist and a trauma, 912 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,680 especially one who understands developmental trauma and trauma in general, 913 00:52:25,940 --> 00:52:28,920 who can help you understand how attachment, you know, 914 00:52:28,990 --> 00:52:33,080 your attachment patterns basically. And then there is a spiritual, you know, 915 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,200 like meditation has been proven to shrink the amygdala, 916 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,360 which is something that tends to enlarge as a result of trauma. 917 00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:41,680 So you wanna figure out some mind, 918 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:45,840 body practice to just basically get you into a parasympathetic state, 919 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,600 a calm and relaxed state. That's not a cure, 920 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,520 all like all of these need to happen at once. You know, 921 00:52:51,660 --> 00:52:56,040 and that's why actually I think that many people would rather just take a pill 922 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,480 and many people don't accept the depressive position. They're like, 923 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,920 I just want someone to come in and fix it, you know? 924 00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:04,960 But the reward that you get out of doing it, 925 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,920 this the holistic way actually is that you just like, 926 00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:12,680 it's like, you literally feel like you have a superpower. Like, 927 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:17,440 I really feel that people who heal trauma in themselves holistically have a 928 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,160 superpower because it's almost like they faced like a certain like death of the 929 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,760 soul, you know? And they brought, 930 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,720 they basically did a soul retrieval on themselves, you know, 931 00:53:25,940 --> 00:53:28,120 but not to say that they didn't have support, 932 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,720 but like it does give you this kind of psychological, emotional, 933 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:37,520 spiritual rebirth when you heal from really complex trauma, you know? And so it, 934 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:42,080 it, it's really important that we understand it's not easy. It's a marathon, 935 00:53:42,300 --> 00:53:46,640 not a race find support systems that help you develop secure 936 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,120 attachment, who understand attachment theory, 937 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:54,120 who under understand trauma and really don't underestimate the importance of 938 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,920 your health. Like it's so, so, so critical and key. 939 00:53:58,150 --> 00:54:02,120 I know a lot of people who are on very restrictive diets who are not, 940 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,880 who actually start developing anxiety and mood disorders because of their diet. 941 00:54:06,890 --> 00:54:11,800 So you really wanna find a diet that makes you feel strong, calm, healthy, 942 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,720 like really vital and vibrant. So those are just a few things. 943 00:54:15,870 --> 00:54:18,280 Yeah. Basically you summarized what we also call. 944 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,120 Even we do this in our courses, 945 00:54:20,260 --> 00:54:24,480 the fourfold approach of holistic integral self work on all levels, physically, 946 00:54:24,780 --> 00:54:27,600 psychologically, mentally, and spiritually, right. 947 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:28,840 It needs to happen on all levels. 948 00:54:28,860 --> 00:54:31,160 And the only way out is in and through you made a good point. 949 00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:35,200 It's also on a deep as attack, spiritual level lessons, you know, 950 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:36,640 whatever we don't heal or learn, 951 00:54:37,010 --> 00:54:41,160 we will have to face at some point in the future life and to suppress and 952 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:45,360 avoiding it is not learning it. Right. So we just, uh, you know, 953 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,760 basically avoid the inevitable. Yeah. And also have to say, 954 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,920 which will go deep in the second hour. Now, you know, 955 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,400 the pharmaceutical drugs have also, uh, 956 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,840 spiritually metaphysical repercussions on a soul, you know, 957 00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,360 detrimentally effects that will, 958 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,240 can also affect the afterlife of future incarnations. So, 959 00:55:01,540 --> 00:55:04,560 and that also ties into the basic control system on the, 960 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,480 on a more the O called reason, uh, why people are, 961 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,640 why they're pushing pharmaceuticals, um, on, on the population, 962 00:55:13,650 --> 00:55:16,040 uh, in light of the matrix control system. 963 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,600 So I wanna dive deep into all that in the second hour. 964 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,960 Yeah. I just wanna end this too, you know, 965 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:26,800 for anyone who's listening that I really truly believe that all mental 966 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,480 illness is basically curable, even schizophrenia, which, you know, with people, 967 00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:35,000 you know, the psychiatric industry is like, just thinks is a mystery. So, 968 00:55:35,180 --> 00:55:35,730 you know, 969 00:55:35,730 --> 00:55:39,720 to understand that the power is really in our hands and we are in this real 970 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,920 paradigm shift of health, you know, and we really need to get out of this, 971 00:55:43,180 --> 00:55:47,480 pathologization this medicalization of mental illness and thinking it's just a 972 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,200 chemical imbalance in the brain and we can't fix it. That's all wrong. Yeah. 973 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,200 Getting away from the idea that it's a, like I mentioned earlier, 974 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,280 that IST a mental illness. Yes. 975 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:57,360 Right. It's a process. 976 00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:59,960 It's a process. And you know, what is, you know, 977 00:56:00,030 --> 00:56:04,600 I see a lot of you think Shanti that some way, you know, a lot of people, 978 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,400 they go along with the consensus or matrix you could, 979 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:09,600 from a spiritual perspective, 980 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,920 you could see them as mentally and spiritually ill. right. Yeah. The, 981 00:56:14,170 --> 00:56:17,080 uh, personality, ego identification, all of that. 982 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:20,040 So it's also what level you perceive it from. Yes. 983 00:56:20,210 --> 00:56:22,400 So we can go deeper into on the second hour. 984 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,640 And I'm also gonna share my own experiences as well, 985 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:30,080 navigating the psychiatric in, uh, the psychiatric industry . 986 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,640 Industry. Exactly. Okay. So again, for members, uh, 987 00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,200 you have access to the second hour, if you're not a member yet, 988 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,640 and would like to support our work, please go to my website, 989 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,720 veil of reality.com sign up to the membership. 990 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:45,280 You have access to all the second, uh, hours of the podcast, 991 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,480 where we dive and a lot of more material, 992 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,960 which we cannot really share on the public, um, uh, 993 00:56:51,210 --> 00:56:54,960 outlets for obvious reasons when you listen to them or check out the show notes 994 00:56:54,970 --> 00:56:58,280 as well, if you're interested. And that being said, 995 00:56:58,450 --> 00:56:59,760 so you're on the second hour.