WEBVTT 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:22.640 Today you get to hear a story of a person that is 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:27.860 Incredible like what one of the kindest people you'll meet one of the smartest people you'll meet 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.660 The job that he does is just this incredible work 00:00:32.440 --> 00:00:34.440 and 00:00:35.080 --> 00:00:37.080 And more than likely 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.800 He might be one of the few people in this room 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:44.240 That knows more 00:00:45.160 --> 00:00:48.680 About college women's gymnastics than I do 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:52.240 And that's saying something 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:56.080 He's also the one that will call me out when I say something wrong about sports 00:00:58.440 --> 00:01:01.880 But he knows a lot about church he's been in it a long time 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.720 But I want to welcome Nate to the stage 00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:16.800 Meet Nate 00:01:19.600 --> 00:01:25.120 All right, you have officially given the mic over to me now I have all the power 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.400 So there's no telling where we're gonna go from here. I don't know 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:33.600 But I'm really excited to share my story with you guys today 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:38.440 Very grateful to Chad for him asking me to speak 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:46.480 So I'm just gonna jump right in but first before I jump into my story 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:48.480 I think we all grow up in 00:01:50.720 --> 00:01:52.720 There's a background a 00:01:53.160 --> 00:01:59.560 Sociological structure right that we all grow up in and so I want to explain just a little bit about my background 00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:01.800 That I grew up in 00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:06.320 So I grew up in church. I didn't just grow up going to church 00:02:06.320 --> 00:02:10.400 I grew up with a dad that was in vocational ministry 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:15.160 So I was there Sundays Wednesdays Fridays Saturdays 00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:19.840 You know was there multiple times a week running around in the back, right? 00:02:20.480 --> 00:02:22.880 And then was there on Sundays as well? 00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:30.080 And so my dad started out his ministry in the Southern Baptist Church 00:02:30.920 --> 00:02:39.040 And so for those of you who which show of hands who has attended Southern Baptist churches at one point or another 00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:42.380 Okay. Wow, that's a lot of you guys. Okay. Wow 00:02:43.440 --> 00:02:47.360 So there are plenty of you who may not know a lot about it. I have a 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.480 Slide that is the history of church denominations 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:59.640 So you can see this is this is the slide that is like the history of all the different church denominations 00:03:00.040 --> 00:03:02.360 So obviously hang on 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.080 This one the Southern Baptist one is the correct one, right? 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:08.480 so 00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:14.040 So yeah, so that is the church that I grew up in I did not learn until maybe 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:19.960 Two years ago the history of the origins of the Southern Baptist Church 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:28.080 So the Southern Baptist Church I grew up in Georgia the Southern Baptist Church was formed in Augusta, Georgia in 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.440 1945 00:03:30.440 --> 00:03:36.160 Originally you had the Baptist Church, which is a little bit above that in history 00:03:36.160 --> 00:03:38.680 There you got the Reformed Baptist Church that was formed first 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:44.800 The reason that the Southern Baptist Church was formed was because the larger National Baptist 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:50.840 Organization had decided that they did not want slave owners to hold ministry 00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:53.200 titles in the Baptist Church 00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:59.440 So then there was this group of 300 churches that decided we're not a part of you anymore 00:03:59.440 --> 00:04:02.860 We do want slave owners to hold ministry titles 00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:07.260 And so that is basically the origins of the Southern Baptist Church 00:04:09.200 --> 00:04:11.200 So eventually 00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:19.280 The Southern Baptist Church did apologize for their history of their stances on slavery and 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.540 Racism does anybody want to guess when they formally apologized? 00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:26.280 for their views 00:04:27.080 --> 00:04:32.320 Last year, that's a very good guess any other guesses. I don't know 00:04:34.280 --> 00:04:37.840 2020 they were focused on other stuff in 2020. I'll get into that 00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:42.240 So they officially apologized in 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:45.000 1995 they were also were 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:50.720 publicly against the civil rights movement, so they apologize for that in 1995 as well 00:04:51.840 --> 00:04:53.840 but 00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:57.320 Shortly after that they started to focus on other 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:00.600 areas other organizational 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:07.880 things that they saw what they believed so since 1995 they have focused on things like 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:18.200 Reducing and further reducing women's role in ministry so way back when they didn't have any official doctrine on women being you know 00:05:18.200 --> 00:05:22.840 In vocational roles, and then they decided hey women can't be lead pastors 00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:30.200 And then I think just this past year if I'm not right they said women cannot have a pastor title in any way whatsoever 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:33.840 They also have 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:40.080 I don't know if you guys know the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express News is that right Chad 00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:41.960 I don't know if Chad's even here 00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:47.400 Yeah, so they did an investigation in the Southern Baptist Church that basically 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:53.920 Showed that they as an organization were intentionally covering up their leaders sexual abuse 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.000 and so 00:05:57.200 --> 00:05:59.200 all that to say 00:05:59.320 --> 00:06:03.400 That one right there is the right one right like all the other ones are wrong 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.360 and so 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.580 That's the history of the Southern Baptist Church. However the family that I grew up in is not necessarily a reflection of that at all 00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:18.240 so my dad before I was born he 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:26.040 His first assignment was to be an unpaid intern which some of our people here might be able to relate to that 00:06:26.880 --> 00:06:28.880 But an unpaid intern 00:06:29.200 --> 00:06:31.200 At a church near Atlanta 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.820 To be a youth pastor and so they asked him to do neighborhood ministry 00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:38.080 and 00:06:38.080 --> 00:06:43.240 So my parents because they were young and he was an unpaid intern 00:06:43.840 --> 00:06:47.640 They lived in a very modest apartment close to the church building 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:53.160 and this was in the late 80s or early 90s and 00:06:54.200 --> 00:06:57.920 And so he was tasked with doing neighborhood ministry 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:02.800 He lived in a modest apartment close to the church building started doing neighborhood ministry close to the church 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.840 well that neighborhood was a majority black neighborhood and so black kids started showing up to youth group and 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:15.000 After black kids started showing up in the youth group the church leadership called him in and they were like, hey just FYI 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:22.340 We didn't want you to do neighborhood ministry here. We wanted you to do neighborhood ministry over here where our kids are 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.240 And so my dad 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.760 Which my parents did not grow up in church 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:32.240 They met in high school because they said the prayer, right? 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.480 My dad immediately was like, what are you talking about? I'm done like peace out 00:07:37.320 --> 00:07:38.320 so 00:07:38.320 --> 00:07:45.040 So my parents right were growing up and this culture that they didn't understand their faith was relatively new 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:49.880 My dad was in vocational ministry, right? But and he was figuring this stuff out as well 00:07:51.400 --> 00:07:53.200 now to kind of 00:07:53.200 --> 00:07:59.480 just get into me and you know growing up in this family where there I think from the 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:05.800 Beginning there was a little bit of this dissonance right between the culture that we were in and our family and then me 00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:11.480 So I was the second-born I grew up. I was very much a rule follower 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:18.680 Which is not always common of second-borns, but my older brother was a rule breaker 00:08:19.880 --> 00:08:22.800 And so I was like, well, I don't want to do that 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:27.960 Because I'm gonna get in way too much trouble if I do that. So I'm gonna do this over here, right? 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:30.920 so I 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.120 Was a 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:40.800 Rule follower, like I said, I got good grades. I was able to meet everybody's expectations around me 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:46.400 I went to Christian school. I was able to follow all the rules there and never got in trouble 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:48.360 and 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:56.080 Was able to kind of maintain everybody's expectations around me and that fit with me wanting to like keep order keep peace, right? 00:08:56.880 --> 00:09:02.520 Alexis talked last week about the kind of like stages of spirituality being order 00:09:03.280 --> 00:09:09.760 Disorder and then reorder I was really really good at the order stage like I could have everything figured out 00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:11.760 I could follow all the rules 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.820 And I did kind of grow up in a bubble in a Christian school. My dad was in vocational ministry 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:20.560 He did eventually like, you know, I was like, okay 00:09:20.560 --> 00:09:25.660 I don't know if SBC is fully for me and went to those non-denominational, right churches 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:28.960 those mega churches, but 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:35.360 I grew up in this bubble and I also grew up with a pretty narrow reading of Scripture and how to interpret Scripture 00:09:36.680 --> 00:09:43.240 But then you know, I went to college I went to a very, you know secular college 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.240 It was a very diverse school 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.320 Which I think it's the greatest school in the world. It's Davidson College 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.880 We have the greatest basketball player ever to go there a Steph Curry 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:00.080 Which I know is not a good thing to say in San Antonio, but 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.640 But yeah, so 00:10:03.640 --> 00:10:10.200 so I went to school and then I still maintained my order in college, but 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.520 I was able to follow all the rules and meet people's expectations 00:10:14.520 --> 00:10:19.240 But I could see the diversity around me and see that not everything always fit neatly into place 00:10:20.520 --> 00:10:23.720 and then after that I 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:30.020 Moved to the Dominican Republic when you move to a different culture and see people living life a different way 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.680 There's no Southern Baptist churches right in the Dominican Republic 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.720 maybe there are I could be wrong, but 00:10:37.560 --> 00:10:43.920 But I didn't go to any of them and so moving there it just you you start to I don't know 00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:48.920 just see that what the where you grew up just doesn't fit with everybody's story around you and 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:51.600 so I started to 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:58.400 Live kind of in awe right in college and then lived in awe 00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:05.920 In another culture. I technically went as a missionary and I do put that in quotes because I 00:11:06.160 --> 00:11:11.960 Really didn't have anything to offer in the Dominican Republic. It is a very Catholic Christian country, right? 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.500 They know who Jesus is I was working at a school, but meanwhile 00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:21.440 Dominicans were teaching me how to live day-to-day life, right? They were teaching me 00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:25.460 How to live life differently how to have a different rhythm 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:32.440 How to do laundry a different way, right how to turn on the stove a different way all these very basic things 00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:36.160 They were teaching me how to do and they were teaching me their language, right? 00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:39.660 And I was learning everything through their language instead of my own 00:11:40.680 --> 00:11:41.680 and 00:11:41.680 --> 00:11:43.680 So it was a very 00:11:44.040 --> 00:11:49.640 Chad's talked a lot about awe. I had just a lot of moments of awe living in the Dominican Republic 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:58.480 And when it came to spirituality and Bible study and going to Bible study in Spanish instead of English and realizing that 00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:06.200 Things are written very differently in different languages and those word families of what this word means. It's not the same, right? 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:09.640 It's not you just can't read it exactly the same because it's a different language 00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:16.320 and that being a very positive experience for me finally allowed me to start to 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:21.200 Okay, maybe I can step back in this thing that I've studied my whole life. I can read differently 00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:24.040 Read it through different lenses 00:12:24.680 --> 00:12:29.920 And figure out I don't know more about it and more about what it's saying what it's not saying 00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:32.000 Maybe the things I was always taught growing up 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:34.520 are not 00:12:34.520 --> 00:12:36.760 You know, maybe there's other ways to look at it 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:39.640 and so 00:12:39.640 --> 00:12:42.640 When I moved back to the States, I went to grad school 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.840 So I was going to school to be a school psychologist. That's what I do now 00:12:48.680 --> 00:12:50.080 I 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.280 Gave myself permission to go back and read through everything again 00:12:55.520 --> 00:13:03.280 Read it with more of an open mind go back to what those original Greek Hebrew Aramaic words might have meant right? 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:10.980 Go and study what rabbis say about this passage and not just what a Southern Baptist preacher would say about it, right? 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:14.960 So go and listen to those different perspectives 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.800 and 00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:23.880 To give myself that permission at the same time one thing that I was really struggling with was my sexuality 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:30.480 and I was always taught growing up that like hey if you believe enough if you 00:13:30.640 --> 00:13:32.880 Pray enough if you do all the right things 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:39.680 Then you're gonna have a very fruitful life with a wife and two and a half kids and you know all the things, right? 00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:46.440 And so so that's what like, you know, I really wanted to believe that about myself growing up 00:13:47.920 --> 00:13:53.660 But I was getting to a point where I just couldn't deny who I was anymore and so 00:13:55.640 --> 00:14:02.920 So I went through and really studied and I came up with every single good argument as to why that 00:14:03.160 --> 00:14:08.560 traditional view of marriage is like too narrow and doesn't you know is 00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:14.240 You know outside of how God truly sees humanity and how he sees people 00:14:14.680 --> 00:14:16.480 I'm not going to get into that today 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.800 If you're one of those people who has those questions or wants to get into it 00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:25.520 I spent so much time studying all that stuff and going back to what the Bible says 00:14:25.520 --> 00:14:29.480 So if you want to talk about that with me, you can talk about that some other time 00:14:30.040 --> 00:14:32.040 Chad's done it too 00:14:32.040 --> 00:14:34.680 Even though he's a straight white guy, right? 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:36.760 so 00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:42.760 You can do it with Chad as well. I actually encourage you to do it with multiple people with multiple perspectives 00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:45.200 but 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.240 So I was able to convince myself and debate myself 00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:52.140 You know the teachings that I had grown up with that 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.000 This was okay that this was not flawed and I believed it up here 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:00.300 But it took a lot longer for for me to believe it here 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:02.400 and 00:15:02.400 --> 00:15:04.000 and 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.940 Around that time period I was you know finishing up grad school getting into my career 00:15:10.040 --> 00:15:15.600 Around that time period my mental health started to deteriorate the pandemic was happening. That was not fun 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:21.880 But I started having panic attacks and funny enough as a mental health professional 00:15:21.880 --> 00:15:26.360 I've seen panic attacks and other people the first time I had one I 00:15:27.680 --> 00:15:30.240 Thought that I was dying. I thought I was having a heart attack 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:34.900 You know, I felt my body reacting 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.760 And I was like I called one of my friends 00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:43.920 I was like I need to go to the hospital like I don't know what's going on and then he came over and he's like 00:15:43.920 --> 00:15:49.080 I think you're having a panic attack and I was like what no I'm not having a panic attack like I know what those are 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:54.280 He was like, yeah, I think you're having a panic attack. And so he helped me out but 00:15:55.680 --> 00:16:00.400 But I could just I just had this very obvious like I know what these are 00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:03.800 I continued to have some panic attacks and anxiety attacks 00:16:04.400 --> 00:16:07.720 I had one while I was driving at one point. That's not fun 00:16:08.880 --> 00:16:10.880 so I 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.240 got to the point where I 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.760 Had realized that I would hear I was believing that I was still broken 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:25.160 And I felt that separation from God, but it was a belief about what was going on here 00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:28.240 It wasn't anything about what I was doing or how I was behaving 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.200 and so 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:37.800 And so there's this there's different perspectives on psychology so you can go to the next slide 00:16:38.920 --> 00:16:41.960 There's seven modern perspectives on psychology 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:43.880 Most of them are kind of like their own thing 00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:50.920 But the two that get compared the most because they're complete opposites are behavioral psychology and humanistic psychology 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.320 So behavioral psychology I was going to quiz another 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:58.200 Psychologist, but she's not here today 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:06.800 So a behavioral psychology is hey, we're only going to study what's observable what's repeatable and what we can see 00:17:07.120 --> 00:17:13.600 and it is a very scientific approach to the study of human behavior and emotion and 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.880 Whereas humanistic psychology is pretty much the opposite 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:23.400 It comes out of this belief that all humans generally have a good 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.800 Will for their own life and the life of others 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:32.200 That they have free will that they can choose in moments 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:37.720 You know what to do that. It's not just hey, they're reinforced to do this behavior because of this that and the other 00:17:38.800 --> 00:17:44.080 And it's funny. My mom was also a psychology major and she worked in the behavioral psychology lab 00:17:44.080 --> 00:17:51.240 And then one of my seminars my senior year of college. We all were looking at the different perspectives. It's pretty much evenly split 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:59.060 And the senior seminar with all of us about kind of the one we identified with the most but I was reading this humanistic 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.620 View of psychology and I was like, that's what I believe about people most 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.520 And humanistic psychology doesn't really fit well with rule following religion 00:18:08.320 --> 00:18:15.520 Because you are innately believing that even if someone like sinned that they had a good reason for why they did what they did 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:24.480 And that it was what they thought was going to lead them to a more healthy life overall in that moment, you know 00:18:25.080 --> 00:18:29.240 so it doesn't really fit well with the rule following nature of things but 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:36.960 But yeah, I so I kind of started taking that view a little bit more into 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.080 Reading the Bible and so I want to talk just a little bit about 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:44.760 one passage I'll set it up before I read it, but 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:47.480 It's the story of Zacchaeus 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.640 Which those of you who raised your hand earlier? 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:55.760 You probably know the song about Zacchaeus like Zacchaeus was a wee little man. See 00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.240 See trauma that's trauma 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:01.680 right there 00:19:02.360 --> 00:19:04.360 So 00:19:05.360 --> 00:19:08.160 So, yeah, a lot of you already know this story 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:16.720 So Jesus at the time in his ministry, he was gaining a lot of popularity and a lot of traction 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.280 He had large crowds following him around he had been healing people 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:25.760 Performing miracles he had been doing his teaching and he was a pretty popular guy 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.800 In an area right where Rome was occupying 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:37.560 You know Jewish space and and then we have Zacchaeus who's this guy who? 00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:42.860 He it's you know, the text says that he is short in stature 00:19:44.320 --> 00:19:48.000 basically at that time what that means is that he had a physical flaw and 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:54.780 When he had a physical flaw that automatically marked him as being separated from God within Jewish religion and culture at the time 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:56.520 so 00:19:56.520 --> 00:20:01.880 We have Zacchaeus and then he also is a political traitor because he's a tax collector for the Romans 00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:04.840 and so 00:20:04.840 --> 00:20:10.640 Basically, nobody likes this guy, right? And so that's a little set up. We'll go ahead and read it 00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:17.000 Does anybody want to volunteer to read it? I'll have it up on this screen here. Anybody anybody I 00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:20.800 See people whispering 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:27.120 Yes, awesome, okay Jackson you've got the first side up there awesome 00:20:29.080 --> 00:20:31.960 All right, go ahead and you got it 00:20:34.840 --> 00:20:41.800 In the city of Jericho there was a very well-manning Zacchaeus who was a supervisor over all the tax collectors 00:20:41.800 --> 00:20:47.200 As Jesus made his way through the city Zacchaeus was here to teach Jesus 00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:55.360 He kept trying to get all the way down to the crowd around these masses Zacchaeus would be very short and we couldn't see over the hill 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:04.400 So he ran off and knows everyone in the line of blossoming victory so he could get a glimpse of Jesus in his bathtub 00:21:04.840 --> 00:21:12.840 When Jesus got to that place, he looked up into the tree and said Zacchaeus, hurry up now, I don't know if you can stand at your house today 00:21:14.840 --> 00:21:19.840 So he scurried down the tree and came face to face with Jesus 00:21:20.840 --> 00:21:23.840 As he was left to go, Zacchaeus made a big round of flames 00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:30.840 Look at this, of all the people out there with, he placed in the house of a crook 00:21:32.840 --> 00:21:34.840 Yeah 00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:12.840 I'm so glad I asked you to read because you read it so much better than I would have read it. That was great. Thank you so much 00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:23.840 So now that I've given myself permission to read this more like humanistic view on this story 00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:28.840 Right that Zacchaeus generally has goodwill. He's trying to make the best of his life, right? 00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:39.840 Looking at Zacchaeus and what it describes about him, we know he's someone who like automatically just saw you're separated from God before he ever even became a tax collector, right? 00:22:40.840 --> 00:22:51.840 And so if you're kind of kicked out or kicked to the curb in one culture, like why not go ahead and help out the occupying group and be a tax collector for the Romans, right? 00:22:52.840 --> 00:22:57.840 Because they at least see a little bit of economic value to you and the Jewish people don't see value to you, right? 00:22:58.840 --> 00:23:03.840 So it's like I might have made the same decision as Zacchaeus, right? I might have been a tax collector at the time 00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:15.840 And the thing that I keep coming back to over and over again in my life in this story is that this one is structured in sequence just a little bit differently 00:23:16.840 --> 00:23:25.840 Because the thing that was separating Zacchaeus from Jesus was part of who he was. It was not necessarily what he did 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:34.840 Yeah, it does talk about what he did and him being super unpopular, but he was pushed to the side because he was shorter than everybody else. They knew that they could push him to the side 00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:42.840 And because he was shorter than everybody else, the crowd's like, "Yeah, get away. You know, we want access to Jesus. You have to be pushed to the side." 00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:58.840 And so that kind of sticks with me because I think a lot of times I hear about being gay or there's a lot of different identities that we all have that like, "Oh, is it your identity or is it just a behavior?" 00:23:59.840 --> 00:24:14.840 "Is it a lifestyle?" "Is it a choice?" "Is it not a choice?" Right? All these things that we hear that, you know, when you start to live it yourself, just don't fit into the story, into my own story 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:39.840 And then as the story moves on, it's not Zacchaeus getting Jesus' attention, right? Zacchaeus doesn't say a prayer. Zacchaeus doesn't ask to be healed, right? He is just up there in the tree and Jesus is the one who spots him, right? Zacchaeus didn't do anything, you know? 00:24:40.840 --> 00:24:51.840 Zacchaeus separated from Jesus because of who he was and then he didn't do anything besides climbing a tree to try to like, see him as he walked by and then Jesus is the one who points them out. 00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:58.840 Meanwhile, Jesus is super popular in Jewish culture and he's pointing out someone who's helping out the Romans all at the same time, right? 00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:23.840 And so, like Jesus knew this was probably the inconvenient, unpopular move, but he chose to do it anyway. And so, when I just look at this story, I see that Zacchaeus, right? He doesn't promise to live a righteous life and then Jesus be like, "Okay, yay, now you're saved," right? 00:25:24.840 --> 00:25:47.840 Jesus seeks him out before Zacchaeus ever promises anything and Jesus shows him that no matter who you are, no matter what you've done, no matter how inconvenient it is for me, that I love you and I choose you and I'm going to stay with you and spend time with you in your house, even though the crowd hates you, has outcast you, all of those things. 00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:58.840 And so, it wasn't Zacchaeus promising to live a righteous life that then Jesus was like, "Okay, I'll have a relationship with you." Jesus chose that beforehand. 00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:18.840 And then out of Zacchaeus believing his identity that he was loved by Jesus, he then turns around and says, "Okay, now I'm going to," like, it was like a response to Jesus' love where he's like, "I'm going to live this moral kindness, this righteousness, right? Like, I'm going to give back all of these things." 00:26:19.840 --> 00:26:34.840 And so, I think that for so much of my life growing up, I was trying to live a righteous life, right? Trying to stay right with God, be right with God, and then there's something in my identity that just blew that wide open and made that impossible. 00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:46.840 And I really struggled with those moments where I didn't believe it and when I felt most separated from God was when I didn't believe that Jesus loved me for who I was. 00:26:47.840 --> 00:27:03.840 And so, you know, it takes a lot of work to get it from here to here. It takes a lot of time. But this is just a story that I think shows that someone is acting out a belief that they're loved and it's a great example for me. 00:27:04.840 --> 00:27:17.840 And so, back to, I'll close out with a quick story. The thing that really ended up helping me, I mean, I wasn't in a mentally healthy place, so believe it or not, mental health professionals do have to go to therapy sometimes. 00:27:18.840 --> 00:27:29.840 And so, I went to therapy. When I was looking for a therapist, I thought, "Okay, I want a guy who's gay, a little bit younger." I did not want to date this person, I promised, right? 00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:37.840 But I was thinking like, "I need someone who understands what I'm going through, right? Who's in relatively my stage of life." 00:27:38.840 --> 00:27:48.840 So I was looking around for different therapists and then the one that was recommended to me was a woman in her 60s. And I was like, "That is not what I was asking for." 00:27:49.840 --> 00:28:02.840 But then I started therapy and y'all, this woman, she's been doing therapy for 35 years. She's amazing, right? She was the perfect therapist for me. 00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:14.840 She helped me to figure out how to believe what I knew up here for myself. And I also asked for specifically non-Christian, right? 00:28:15.840 --> 00:28:23.840 So believe it or not, Jesus can show up in therapy when it's non-Christian therapy and teach you how He loves you through that. 00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:34.840 But it was towards the end of my year of therapy that I had with her where I was talking about coming out to my parents and all that stuff. 00:28:35.840 --> 00:28:53.840 And that was the stressor at that time towards the end of my therapy. And at the end of one of the therapy sessions, she said, "You know, I keep my relationships with my clients very professional and I don't disclose a lot of personal information, which I'm a mental health professional. 00:28:54.840 --> 00:29:10.840 I know that she was doing all that stuff like she was supposed to do very ethically." She said, "I just want you to know that I grew up in the Baptist Church and I'm a lesbian and I came out later in life. 00:29:11.840 --> 00:29:16.840 I was married, had a daughter, and came out later in life. So I just want you to know that I know what you're going through." 00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:37.840 And so for someone to build this therapeutic relationship, to use scientifically backed therapeutic methods, to not bring faith into the conversation too much, but then to show up in that way and to have been that unselfish in therapy when she probably could have said for eight or nine months, like, "Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too." 00:29:38.840 --> 00:29:49.840 But, you know, Jesus showed up in her, in that relationship with me. And so, you know, even though she was nothing that I asked for, she was everything that I needed. 00:29:50.840 --> 00:30:05.840 But yeah, so that's most of my story. I thank you guys for listening. It's been great sharing it with you guys. If you have any questions about more details of my story, I'm more than happy to talk about it with you all. But thank you guys so much. 00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:14.840 [Applause] 00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:23.840 One thing you didn't talk about was your handsome husband. Sam, stand up. Give a wave. Come on. 00:30:24.840 --> 00:30:28.840 [Applause] 00:30:29.840 --> 00:30:38.840 When I was sitting in my office, I don't know who it was that was talking to him, but they were like, "Hey, you're first lady?" I think it was Taryn. She's like, "Hey, how's it feel to be first lady today, Sam?" 00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:49.840 If you grew up in church, the pastor's wife, first lady, that was cute. I think it was Taryn. I just started laughing. 00:30:50.840 --> 00:31:02.840 Man, we have a community here that I think is just incredible. I love that we get to hear stories. Thanks, Nate, for sharing. 00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:23.840 I'm going to tell a quick story. I wrote a substack a month or so ago about this story about a river where bodies were in a village next to a river and this body came floating down. 00:31:24.840 --> 00:31:38.840 They went and they grabbed it and they pulled it out, and then another body came and they pulled it out. They got to the point where there were so many bodies coming down the river that they were building out like this assembly line to grab and pull bodies out of the water. 00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:46.840 During this process, it just kept coming. They were building stuff. They were doing all this work. There was someone who was like, "Hold on." 00:31:47.840 --> 00:31:55.840 They started to walk away from the assembly line. They started to get yelled at, "Where are you going? What are you doing? You've got to help us. There's so much happening. You've got to be here." 00:31:56.840 --> 00:32:11.840 This person walks away and begins to walk upstream. As they're walking upstream, what they're doing is asking the question of, "Where are these bodies coming from? We've got to go figure out what's happening. Why are these bodies floating down the river?" 00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:22.840 In my story, I talked about how when I grew up in the church, there was this system that I was taught of how to do church and what to do and how to be a good Christian. 00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:35.840 There was a moment in my life when I started to deconstruct where I was like, "I have to go upstream. Something's not working here. I know we're just trying to save bodies, but it's just not working." 00:32:36.840 --> 00:32:47.840 As I began to walk upstream, I got yelled at. People told me I'm a heretic and then I'm a cotton candy preacher. I just want to love everybody. I think that's the point. 00:32:48.840 --> 00:33:04.840 In the story that I wrote, I talked about how when I got upstream, I found a group of people that had built a fire. They were around the fire. They were trying to help save people from going into the water. 00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:20.840 It was a place where when I got there, they began to invite me to the fire and give me food and teach me about what forgiveness and love and care and kindness and what joy looks like and peace in your life. 00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:37.840 The people in my life that I began to find that from were people like Nate, who I had been told my whole life can't be with Jesus, is too short. There's something wrong with them. 00:33:38.840 --> 00:33:59.840 It was people like Nate who when I got up there, they taught me what forgiveness really was and what caring for someone really is. It was a lot of my LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters that began to teach me things about Jesus that I never experienced as a kid growing up in the church. 00:34:00.840 --> 00:34:18.840 And I can't thank them enough for teaching me what love is. It changed my life. It changed how I see God, how I see myself, and ultimately how I see others. 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:44.840 And it made a way for us to start to put together this community that we can just love people well, that we can realize that the people that Jesus did life with are the people that a lot of religion just says they don't belong here. 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.840 And the reason they were already up river when I walked up there was because they'd already been told that they're not part of this anymore. 00:34:51.840 --> 00:35:20.840 You can be part of it, but when you ask to start to volunteer, they're like, "Hold on. You can't do that until you fix some things. You can't greet someone at the door. Or you can't work in a killed kid's ministry." And they were like, "All right." And they walked up river, but it was up river where they were actually teaching people what love looks like and forgiveness and grace. 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:27.840 And when I got there, they were the most welcoming group I've ever seen. 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:55.840 And so I can't thank Nate enough. There's so many. Judy, Debbie. I could name the people in my life that have just shown me what love is. And as Nate pointed out, as a straight white man, there's a lot of unlearning that I had to do. 00:35:56.840 --> 00:36:15.840 And there was a lot of, even in the process of trying to figure out what we were going to do with the church and when things got tense and we had to make some decisions and we were told that, "Hey, we can keep doing this thing. The money will keep coming. You just have to stop telling people that they can be here." 00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:38.840 And I remember sitting at the table and Rob and I, Rob, also a straight white man, looking across and being like, "You realize the theology that we hold and the places that we're at and the people that we've experienced, if we can't welcome people, then I don't think we're teaching the gospel. 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:54.840 And also you realize that as two straight white men, this is not the best decision for us as a church. We could go do the system and we could do this thing the way it's supposed to be done. 00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:10.840 So if you want to ask me to do that, I can't anymore. I've already been upriver. And so if that means that you're taking money and you're leaving, then we'll figure it out. 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:31.840 And we have for a year and a half. It hasn't always been easy, but man, as Martin Buber says, when you experience the "thou," the "I thou" moment, it's a moment of experiencing a peace of the eternal thou. 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:42.840 And I don't think there's anything more important than that or more valuable than that. And so that's why we are who we are and we operate the way we operate. 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:47.840 Because I think love is all we're supposed to be about. 00:37:50.840 --> 00:38:02.840 So take that with you and go love well because it's who you're made to be. And we'll see you next week. We've got another story coming and it's going to be incredible. So love you guys. Thanks, Nate.