WEBVTT 00:00:23.129 --> 00:00:25.909 Hey everybody, welcome to a special episode of The Virtual Couch. 00:00:26.009 --> 00:00:26.989 Maybe it's not going to be special. 00:00:27.189 --> 00:00:30.089 Maybe this is going to be what you're going to see a lot of in 2026. 00:00:30.349 --> 00:00:31.309 Happy New Year, by the way. 00:00:31.769 --> 00:00:35.489 And that is a question and answer episode. And they might go long, 00:00:35.649 --> 00:00:39.029 they might go short, but I really love answering questions. 00:00:39.129 --> 00:00:42.949 And I get a lot of them and I don't do a lot of things with them as much as I would like. 00:00:43.309 --> 00:00:47.109 So please send your questions and you can go through the website at TonyOverbay.com. 00:00:47.229 --> 00:00:51.789 You can send them to me through social media on Instagram at virtual.couch or 00:00:51.789 --> 00:00:56.209 TikTok at virtual couch or through Facebook at Tony Overbay licensed marriage 00:00:56.209 --> 00:01:01.169 and family therapist or sub stack, sub stack.com slash I believe it's the virtual couch. 00:01:01.839 --> 00:01:04.819 But I want all your questions. If it's a couples related question, 00:01:04.819 --> 00:01:08.899 I would love to hear both of your hot takes on the situation in your relationship 00:01:08.899 --> 00:01:12.419 or anything around marriage, around ADHD, 00:01:12.739 --> 00:01:15.579 emotional immaturity, narcissism, navigating a faith journey, 00:01:15.739 --> 00:01:17.479 a faith crisis, anxiety, depression. 00:01:17.819 --> 00:01:22.079 And if I don't have an answer for something, I was going to say I might, 00:01:22.259 --> 00:01:24.959 I probably won't even try to cover that, but I really want to get to everything. 00:01:25.139 --> 00:01:28.179 And I can even tell you the things that I know and the things that I don't know, 00:01:28.299 --> 00:01:32.019 and maybe some good resources. And I'm going to do more live question and answers 00:01:32.019 --> 00:01:33.819 on TikTok and on Instagram. 00:01:34.119 --> 00:01:37.439 And Substack is starting to do some with live video as well. 00:01:37.559 --> 00:01:41.919 I would highly encourage you to tune in to those live Q&As as well. 00:01:42.499 --> 00:01:47.759 Today, I have one just to get started. And it's one that came in just a few hours ago. 00:01:47.779 --> 00:01:52.199 And I thought, what a fun experience or something that I could just jot down 00:01:52.199 --> 00:01:54.199 some notes and then give my thoughts. 00:01:54.419 --> 00:01:58.379 And it's one that I think is going to start, at least if I'm really being honest 00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:03.339 with my outline. in one direction and probably go in a direction that you don't anticipate. 00:02:03.619 --> 00:02:07.439 Yes, I am even talking about things like intimacy and sexuality, 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:11.159 even though when you hear what I'm going to say, it's sure not going to sound that way. 00:02:11.399 --> 00:02:14.999 Stick with me to see how am I going to bridge what you're about to hear into 00:02:14.999 --> 00:02:18.599 that high charge topic? Let me go with the question. Here we go. 00:02:18.799 --> 00:02:21.699 Hi, Tony. My husband and I have been married for a little over two years. 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:26.219 Overall, our relationship is solid and we're both really intentional about communication. 00:02:26.299 --> 00:02:29.579 We actually just had a conversation a few days ago about staying more closely 00:02:29.579 --> 00:02:32.599 connected, especially because my husband travels for work fairly often. 00:02:33.284 --> 00:02:37.124 A few nights ago, he went to a friend's house for a guy's night and had planned 00:02:37.124 --> 00:02:38.244 to stay there for the night. 00:02:38.684 --> 00:02:41.884 Before he left, he told me that he texted me before he went to bed just so that 00:02:41.884 --> 00:02:45.744 I knew that he was okay. That felt reassuring, especially given our recent conversation. 00:02:46.264 --> 00:02:50.604 When I woke up the next morning and didn't see a text, at first I assumed, 00:02:50.744 --> 00:02:52.624 okay, they probably stayed up late and just fell asleep. 00:02:52.884 --> 00:02:55.804 But then as my morning went on, my mind started filling in the gaps. 00:02:55.844 --> 00:02:56.884 What if something happened? 00:02:57.044 --> 00:03:00.584 And I think as a old man that I am now, I go to the proverbial, 00:03:00.724 --> 00:03:02.004 what if he's lying in a ditch somewhere? 00:03:02.564 --> 00:03:05.264 But also she said we literally just talked about 00:03:05.264 --> 00:03:08.484 communication so when he finally did text me he explained 00:03:08.484 --> 00:03:11.984 that his phone had died he couldn't find a charger until that 00:03:11.984 --> 00:03:14.924 morning he apologized profusely his explanation made 00:03:14.924 --> 00:03:17.824 sense to me and she said what surprised me was that even though i understood 00:03:17.824 --> 00:03:22.104 and wasn't angry with him i still felt anxious and unsettled for quite a while 00:03:22.104 --> 00:03:25.724 after my thoughts had calmed down but my body hadn't caught up yet she said 00:03:25.724 --> 00:03:29.144 i'm not trying to make this into a bigger issue than it is but i'm curious why 00:03:29.144 --> 00:03:32.044 did this affect me the way it did And is this something that we should talk 00:03:32.044 --> 00:03:33.824 about more or should I just let it go? 00:03:34.024 --> 00:03:39.024 The reason I want to start with this question, it's because it can seem pretty benign. 00:03:39.204 --> 00:03:42.984 And I would also say that most anyone listening is going to immediately have 00:03:42.984 --> 00:03:46.404 some judgment. So I want you to just acknowledge that is some of the thoughts 00:03:46.404 --> 00:03:50.864 that I had initially were, OK, did he have a little bit too much to drink? Did he pass out? 00:03:51.244 --> 00:03:56.844 Was there anything nefarious going on? But at this point, I want to assume good 00:03:56.844 --> 00:03:58.424 intentions, give him the benefit of the doubt. 00:03:58.424 --> 00:04:02.004 And I want to use my four pillars of a connected conversation, 00:04:02.004 --> 00:04:04.764 which pillar two then is I'm not going to say, that's ridiculous. 00:04:04.764 --> 00:04:06.724 I don't believe you. Even if something seems a little fishy. 00:04:06.964 --> 00:04:09.444 And then pillar three, I'm going to go into questions before comments and pillar 00:04:09.444 --> 00:04:11.204 four, I'm not going to take a victim stance. 00:04:11.344 --> 00:04:13.464 And that pillar one is giving this person the benefit of the doubt, 00:04:13.664 --> 00:04:17.684 assuming good intentions that he didn't say, oh, I cannot wait till I pull the 00:04:17.684 --> 00:04:21.444 old, my phone died and I fell asleep gag on my newlywed wife. 00:04:21.624 --> 00:04:26.884 But again, nothing blew up. Nobody yelled as far as with the data we have here. 00:04:27.024 --> 00:04:28.524 Nobody's cheated. Nobody lied. 00:04:29.260 --> 00:04:31.780 Something really important is happening underneath the surface. 00:04:32.200 --> 00:04:36.680 And it is such a fascinating concept where I get couples that come to see me 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.500 after 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:43.780 And there are some deeply entrenched patterns that are happening in the relationship. 00:04:44.060 --> 00:04:47.940 Trying to help a couple early in their relationship is, it's a dream. 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:52.520 I want to say it's a fantasy that comes complete with unicorns and pots of gold. 00:04:52.520 --> 00:04:54.480 And it's something that I really want to help with. 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:59.260 And often when I do work with newlyweds and I've done some premarital counseling, 00:04:59.260 --> 00:05:05.500 I really want to acknowledge that the things that won't seem like a big deal, I'm not saying, 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:10.520 oh, they're a big deal, but they are the lower charged topics that if you can 00:05:10.520 --> 00:05:13.780 get the right communication tools early on and learn how to communicate about 00:05:13.780 --> 00:05:15.460 those things, even if they're a little bit uncomfortable, 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:20.920 that is going to save you so much grief and heartache and assumptions and then 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:24.580 getting into the trenches of these deeply rutted neuropathways of patterns that 00:05:24.580 --> 00:05:25.740 are happening in your relationship. 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:29.160 So that's why I wanted to start the year off with one that's going to seem a 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:31.560 little bit benign, but take a look at where we go with this. 00:05:31.780 --> 00:05:36.900 I want to validate her by her saying, is this something that I even need to 00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:38.280 bring up or do I just need to let it go? 00:05:38.640 --> 00:05:42.200 Because it's not catastrophic, so why bring it up? But then I think the irony 00:05:42.200 --> 00:05:46.520 is these are the moments that start to build the slow residue of your lived 00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:52.280 experience as a couple where resentment can start to grow or whether things like intimacy, 00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:55.800 and I'm not talking just sex yet, but emotional intimacy. 00:05:56.280 --> 00:06:00.820 Honesty, safety, security, and trust where those things can actually deepen 00:06:00.820 --> 00:06:05.340 by having conversations that maybe seem like they're really not a big deal. 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.560 The first thing I want to do then is normalize this right out of the gate. 00:06:08.700 --> 00:06:13.640 Her reaction doesn't mean that she is insecure or that she's needy or dramatic or overthinking. 00:06:13.820 --> 00:06:18.440 And also, I don't believe that his response means that he's up to no good or 00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:22.120 that he's not trustworthy Because we want to start from a place of, 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:25.400 again, assuming good intentions or there's a reason why people do or say the things they do. 00:06:25.520 --> 00:06:29.440 And a lot of that comes from their family of origin, the things that they saw modeled. 00:06:29.990 --> 00:06:32.950 And so that's why I want to start from a place of giving somebody the benefit 00:06:32.950 --> 00:06:34.790 of the doubt, especially early on in a relationship. 00:06:35.310 --> 00:06:38.150 But I can understand why this is where a lot of people get confused. 00:06:38.150 --> 00:06:40.210 Just because something isn't catastrophic 00:06:40.210 --> 00:06:43.630 doesn't mean that it isn't worth talking about or significant. 00:06:43.930 --> 00:06:48.030 Because your nervous system, your central nervous system doesn't only respond 00:06:48.030 --> 00:06:51.150 to danger. I believe it also responds to meaning. 00:06:51.430 --> 00:06:54.330 And in this case, her brain quickly accepted his explanation. 00:06:54.550 --> 00:06:58.110 It made sense to her. And she knows him better than any of us do. 00:06:58.310 --> 00:07:01.730 And he did apologize. and so she said no alarm bells 00:07:01.730 --> 00:07:05.130 were going off logically okay that makes sense but her 00:07:05.130 --> 00:07:07.890 body had already picked up on something else she said 00:07:07.890 --> 00:07:10.770 we just talked about staying more connected and then this happened while her 00:07:10.770 --> 00:07:13.610 mind said okay that makes sense that's good 00:07:13.610 --> 00:07:17.310 and if anybody has been in the emotionally immature or narcissistic 00:07:17.310 --> 00:07:20.430 relationships there was a complete absence of oh really like 00:07:20.430 --> 00:07:23.250 you don't do things like this either or i told you that i wasn't going 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:26.430 to text you actually there wasn't this blatant gaslighting 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:29.310 or denial so that's why while her mind 00:07:29.310 --> 00:07:32.670 was saying okay we're good her body was still saying are we 00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:36.410 though are we actually changing something here because we just had a conversation 00:07:36.410 --> 00:07:41.430 about this a couple of days ago so that lingering anxiety isn't an overreaction 00:07:41.430 --> 00:07:45.390 first of all it's just the way the body works it's going to take time for your 00:07:45.390 --> 00:07:48.670 central nervous system to calm down even if you hear something that makes perfect 00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:52.270 sense but it's also a little bit of unresolved meaning. 00:07:52.550 --> 00:07:57.090 Those emotions are there to act as messengers, to tell you to pay attention to something. 00:07:57.270 --> 00:07:59.850 Now, just because it's telling you to pay attention to something doesn't mean 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:02.790 that that is something that is a horrible thing, but it's saying, 00:08:02.890 --> 00:08:06.970 hey, let's bring a little awareness here because bodies don't just shut that 00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:09.630 stuff down just because logic shows up. They need time. 00:08:10.347 --> 00:08:15.687 And consistency and then safety cues to eventually settle. That's not mistrust. 00:08:15.787 --> 00:08:18.147 That's your physiology. That's the way the body works. 00:08:18.447 --> 00:08:24.807 I really do believe that meaning takes precedent over the events over time because relationships, 00:08:25.207 --> 00:08:29.707 while they are built on these small individual moments, they're probably more 00:08:29.707 --> 00:08:33.867 so built on the story that we tell ourselves about those moments or the story 00:08:33.867 --> 00:08:36.047 that those moments start to tell us about the relationship. 00:08:36.307 --> 00:08:39.287 And meaning often sounds like, am I a priority? 00:08:39.907 --> 00:08:44.987 Do my needs actually matter? Do they land? Are they heard? When it really counts, 00:08:45.207 --> 00:08:47.567 do I matter? Is this somebody that I'm going to be able to trust? 00:08:48.087 --> 00:08:54.867 Am I chosen? Or I appreciate feeling like I was understood, but was that just 00:08:54.867 --> 00:08:58.807 the right words to say in that moment? Because it isn't about a phone dying. 00:08:59.067 --> 00:09:03.567 It's whether about reassurance and repair are consistently followed by behavior, 00:09:03.867 --> 00:09:07.667 by someone taking ownership or accountability for their actions, 00:09:07.847 --> 00:09:09.067 not just saying the right things. 00:09:09.367 --> 00:09:12.227 I want to talk a little bit about one of my favorite things lately, 00:09:12.507 --> 00:09:16.807 co-regulation, because I think what she was really reaching for was co-regulation. 00:09:16.847 --> 00:09:21.047 When she asked him to text her before bed, she wasn't asking for control or surveillance. 00:09:21.567 --> 00:09:25.067 She was asking for co-regulation. And that's the process of saying, 00:09:25.247 --> 00:09:28.347 hey, your presence helps my nervous system feel safe. 00:09:28.487 --> 00:09:31.927 We are co-regulating each other in a healthy way, hopefully at this point, 00:09:31.947 --> 00:09:34.927 but it helps my system feel safe even more apart. 00:09:35.107 --> 00:09:39.547 And when it works, it sounds like, okay, I know you're okay. And I also know I matter. 00:09:39.947 --> 00:09:42.607 And so now I don't have to fill in the gaps with worst case scenarios. 00:09:43.007 --> 00:09:46.107 When that co-regulating moment then doesn't happen after he said it would, 00:09:46.247 --> 00:09:48.587 the body doesn't just move on and go, well, we gave it our best. 00:09:48.767 --> 00:09:51.627 The explanation shows up later and that's good. But the nervous system already 00:09:51.627 --> 00:09:55.407 did its job. It scanned for safety and it did not find it in the moment. 00:09:55.667 --> 00:10:00.147 And this gets into differentiation, one of my favorite concepts. 00:10:00.587 --> 00:10:04.467 A differentiated response isn't managing his emotion. I don't want him to get mad at me. 00:10:05.171 --> 00:10:08.271 It's allowing him to have his own emotional experience as I share mine. 00:10:08.891 --> 00:10:11.751 It's not swallowing your feelings or emotions or playing small. 00:10:11.991 --> 00:10:16.551 And it's also not escalating it immediately into a fight because that's maybe 00:10:16.551 --> 00:10:17.871 what you saw modeled in your childhood. 00:10:17.931 --> 00:10:20.651 And that's the only way that you feel like you're going to be heard or understood. 00:10:20.911 --> 00:10:24.371 It's being able to say that I can hold onto myself and I can stay connected 00:10:24.371 --> 00:10:27.391 to you, which might sound something like, okay, I know your explanation makes 00:10:27.391 --> 00:10:28.951 sense and I appreciate it. 00:10:29.311 --> 00:10:33.231 But I would also like to share about how that landed for me. 00:10:33.231 --> 00:10:37.731 It's a me thing because I noticed my body stayed anxious longer than I expected. 00:10:38.151 --> 00:10:42.671 Isn't that fascinating? And we're married. And so I would love to talk to you about it. 00:10:42.851 --> 00:10:46.031 But if you're going to get defensive or take the victim response, 00:10:46.291 --> 00:10:49.051 then over time, I'm not going to feel very safe sharing my emotions. 00:10:49.411 --> 00:10:53.071 I think it might help me to feel safer if we talk about, let's say, 00:10:53.151 --> 00:10:54.811 backup plans for moments like that. 00:10:54.891 --> 00:10:58.011 And I'm not saying I can see a logical brain guy saying, got it. 00:10:58.111 --> 00:11:03.271 I will buy some extra charging cables. I will keep those in my car and, 00:11:03.531 --> 00:11:09.051 or it might be like where there was anybody else in the house have a phone just out of curiosity. 00:11:09.371 --> 00:11:12.891 And I would hope that the guy would not go like, okay, well, 00:11:13.051 --> 00:11:16.031 so I did bad taking the victim stance versus having the courage to say, 00:11:16.131 --> 00:11:16.931 I didn't even think about that. 00:11:17.291 --> 00:11:21.411 Because again, this isn't blame and it's not control it's ownership and it's connection. 00:11:21.651 --> 00:11:25.931 Now over time, it can sure start to feel like blame and surveillance and scorekeeping. 00:11:26.966 --> 00:11:29.806 This is why I think this is so interesting to talk about with newlyweds. 00:11:29.966 --> 00:11:37.086 And if you are deeply dug into these unhealthy patterns, then that doesn't mean 00:11:37.086 --> 00:11:39.246 that there isn't work that you can do. 00:11:39.566 --> 00:11:43.546 We're talking about getting together and collaborating. And we want to eventually 00:11:43.546 --> 00:11:47.706 get the two of you saying it's us versus what has taken down the relationship, not me versus you. 00:11:47.886 --> 00:11:52.286 And the more conversations you can have over these things that maybe seem a 00:11:52.286 --> 00:11:56.486 little bit insignificant, if we can address these things with the small challenges 00:11:56.486 --> 00:11:59.866 that come in life, life, then it's going to keep them from becoming the bigger ones later. 00:12:00.166 --> 00:12:04.206 And here's what I really wanted to talk about when I first saw this question 00:12:04.206 --> 00:12:07.706 come in is I don't think I've spent enough time talking about people figure 00:12:07.706 --> 00:12:10.306 out a way to really do what matters. 00:12:10.786 --> 00:12:14.406 And I want to slow this part down a little bit. If I had some good music in 00:12:14.406 --> 00:12:16.506 the background, it would be very, very intentional right now, 00:12:16.586 --> 00:12:19.506 because I think this is one of those moments where I want to go find a soapbox. 00:12:19.646 --> 00:12:21.586 I can feel myself getting a tiny bit animated. 00:12:21.846 --> 00:12:26.806 Just know that this comes from love, from sitting in this chair with couples for a long time. 00:12:26.966 --> 00:12:30.366 Over two decades now, I want to say this as much as I can. 00:12:30.506 --> 00:12:34.286 I'm going to probably say it more and more, but people figure out a way to do 00:12:34.286 --> 00:12:38.746 what truly matters to them, not what they say matters, not even what they wish 00:12:38.746 --> 00:12:40.286 matters, but what actually matters. 00:12:40.686 --> 00:12:45.426 Now, a low charge, but easy example I go to often is golf. 00:12:46.168 --> 00:12:49.668 If anyone really enjoys golfing, and I'm talking, this is something they love 00:12:49.668 --> 00:12:50.728 to do, which a lot of people do. 00:12:50.988 --> 00:12:54.428 If they like to golf, they're not late for tee times. And I'm talking almost 00:12:54.428 --> 00:12:56.328 ever. And I don't use a lot of all or nothing language. 00:12:56.888 --> 00:13:01.468 My son is an assistant golf pro at a place. And I had asked him at one point, 00:13:01.808 --> 00:13:03.888 hey, are a lot of people late for their tee time? He's like, no. 00:13:04.608 --> 00:13:07.468 And this example comes up often when I'm doing couples therapy. 00:13:08.148 --> 00:13:11.788 If the person just says, you know, I wasn't able to do this project or do the 00:13:11.788 --> 00:13:12.668 thing that she had asked me to. 00:13:12.668 --> 00:13:15.448 And I'll try to find a nice way to bring up 00:13:15.448 --> 00:13:19.428 with each of them certain things that are very important and would 00:13:19.428 --> 00:13:22.248 they have found a way to make that happen and I'm grateful when 00:13:22.248 --> 00:13:26.028 somebody's honest and says oh yeah I'm never late for golf because golf doesn't 00:13:26.028 --> 00:13:28.948 care about your intentions they don't care that traffic was bad or that your 00:13:28.948 --> 00:13:32.528 phone died or that you lost track of time they just say sorry about that but 00:13:32.528 --> 00:13:35.668 we'll still take your money thank you very much and good luck finding something 00:13:35.668 --> 00:13:40.268 to do for the next four to six hours so somehow magically people tend to figure 00:13:40.268 --> 00:13:41.748 that out alarms Alarms are set, 00:13:41.948 --> 00:13:45.628 backup alarms are set, calendars get checked, cars are packed the night before. 00:13:46.188 --> 00:13:48.708 Outfits are laid out like a little kid for the first day of school, 00:13:48.968 --> 00:13:50.428 like it hasn't been done in a long time. 00:13:50.968 --> 00:13:55.708 Backup plans appear out of thin air, and then I'll have the same people sitting 00:13:55.708 --> 00:14:00.648 in my office, maybe a guy telling his wife, I really tried to make it to the kids' 00:14:00.988 --> 00:14:04.868 production, school production on time, or man, I really meant to remember that, 00:14:04.968 --> 00:14:06.708 or you know what, I will not do that again. 00:14:07.148 --> 00:14:10.208 And I really do believe them in the moment, I really do. 00:14:11.338 --> 00:14:14.698 Then there's the next time. And the next time is just different enough. 00:14:14.878 --> 00:14:17.918 Oh, man, no, I get it now. I didn't understand that that was that important 00:14:17.918 --> 00:14:22.058 to you. But now I will. I will make sure that I put a reminder in the calendar. 00:14:22.578 --> 00:14:26.178 But if it was a golf tee time, guys, like if I even said, hey, 00:14:26.238 --> 00:14:28.038 play golf lately. Oh, yeah, I played a couple of days ago. 00:14:28.318 --> 00:14:30.978 5 a.m. in the morning. First off the tee, man, we were right there on time. 00:14:31.358 --> 00:14:33.958 And sometimes I realize, oh, man, I did not realize that. 00:14:34.378 --> 00:14:38.578 Yeah, my bad. And what happens often is that then, yeah, that next situation, 00:14:38.878 --> 00:14:40.078 then it's a little bit different. 00:14:40.218 --> 00:14:43.338 The variables are a little bit different. Oh, no, that last one's a school play. 00:14:43.578 --> 00:14:46.738 This one was the kids' awards ceremony. I didn't realize that was as big of 00:14:46.738 --> 00:14:49.658 a deal, but now I get it. School play, awards ceremony, I got it. 00:14:49.738 --> 00:14:51.198 I will not miss any of these things again. 00:14:51.518 --> 00:14:54.358 That situation wasn't exactly the same. I didn't realize it mattered in that 00:14:54.358 --> 00:14:55.898 way or, okay, no, I get it. 00:14:56.298 --> 00:14:59.658 Again, until the next time. I want to add a couple more examples here because 00:14:59.658 --> 00:15:03.358 when I talk about people figuring out ways to do things that matter to them, 00:15:03.478 --> 00:15:07.978 and I hope it doesn't sound like I am being harsh or I'm saying that everybody 00:15:07.978 --> 00:15:12.918 is doing these things on purpose or that I'm calling anybody selfish or lazy because I'm not. 00:15:13.038 --> 00:15:16.498 But what I'm saying is I think we all have a version of selective competence. 00:15:16.778 --> 00:15:20.378 We all have things that we magically become brilliant at when it really matters to us. 00:15:20.758 --> 00:15:24.838 I have a friend who was a surgeon. He has told me about standing over human 00:15:24.838 --> 00:15:30.878 beings when they are about to code or tap out and he makes these life-saving decisions. 00:15:31.858 --> 00:15:35.238 But then there was another time where he talked about his wife being out of 00:15:35.238 --> 00:15:38.138 town and he's calling her like it's some 911 emergency because he can't figure 00:15:38.138 --> 00:15:41.598 out, I'm not even sure what to do because our daughter didn't have any clean 00:15:41.598 --> 00:15:43.418 underwear and we had to go to school. 00:15:44.187 --> 00:15:46.907 And I'm not telling that story to shame him, although I think you'll get a kick 00:15:46.907 --> 00:15:49.707 out of it. I'm telling it because it's such a clear example of how the brain 00:15:49.707 --> 00:15:51.207 works because he's not incapable. 00:15:51.467 --> 00:15:54.427 He's not dumb. He's not helpless. He's brilliant. 00:15:54.727 --> 00:15:57.567 What's happening is that in that moment, he's saying without saying it, 00:15:57.667 --> 00:16:00.447 this really isn't my sweet spot. It's not my zone. 00:16:00.587 --> 00:16:03.287 It's not my priority. And this isn't where I'm going to organize myself. 00:16:03.647 --> 00:16:07.507 And here's the deal. If we're honest about that, then we can work with it. 00:16:07.627 --> 00:16:10.767 But if we pretend that it's, I just can't, then we can't. 00:16:10.967 --> 00:16:15.327 We can't work on that together. Or another one, another person that a friend 00:16:15.327 --> 00:16:18.187 of mine, an attorney billing out, I just learned recently, 00:16:18.387 --> 00:16:23.007 I think over $800 an hour, who missed a major school event while his wife was 00:16:23.007 --> 00:16:26.087 out of town and his explanations, I couldn't find the email that said what time it started. 00:16:26.547 --> 00:16:30.387 This is a guy that one time explained to me an insanely complicated trial strategy, 00:16:30.387 --> 00:16:33.607 which involved weeks of planning and layers of contingencies and timelines and 00:16:33.607 --> 00:16:35.007 moving parts and coordinating with staff. 00:16:35.127 --> 00:16:38.267 It was like a military operation, but this school event puzzled him. 00:16:38.407 --> 00:16:40.007 He could not figure out the next step. 00:16:40.247 --> 00:16:44.527 He could not find that email. Again, he is not incompetent. He's not incapable. 00:16:45.147 --> 00:16:47.787 And that one, I did have a little fun with him. And I just said, 00:16:47.867 --> 00:16:49.827 oh, so anything else you could have done? Couldn't find the email? 00:16:50.147 --> 00:16:51.527 Have you ever thought about calling the school? 00:16:52.107 --> 00:16:55.207 I'm sure there's a school portal somewhere. Text another parent. 00:16:55.347 --> 00:16:58.367 Call the parent of one of your kid's friends. Call your kid's teacher. Check the calendar app. 00:16:58.727 --> 00:17:01.767 Drive by the school. Check the voicemail from the school. Do literally anything 00:17:01.767 --> 00:17:04.147 other than just shrug your shoulders and go, no, no, no. 00:17:04.487 --> 00:17:07.507 So when somebody says, I couldn't, what I often hear is, oh, 00:17:07.547 --> 00:17:11.927 I didn't. but I need you to accept my explanation so that we can move on because 00:17:11.927 --> 00:17:14.687 yeah, this isn't very comfortable for me and I just need the other person to 00:17:14.687 --> 00:17:16.847 take it. A lot of times the explanation is legitimate. 00:17:17.027 --> 00:17:20.667 Phones die, schedules change, life happens. But if it keeps happening, 00:17:21.047 --> 00:17:24.127 here's where it becomes, I wanted to say clinically interesting, 00:17:24.327 --> 00:17:27.487 but I think it's just interesting and relationally important to the marriage. 00:17:27.827 --> 00:17:32.307 Behavior is a language. And over time we start to understand what people are 00:17:32.307 --> 00:17:36.047 telling us through their behavior, especially when their words are consistently 00:17:36.047 --> 00:17:38.827 eloquent and beautiful, but their follow through is missing. 00:17:39.007 --> 00:17:42.547 This is what I call very affectionately the right mouth noises. 00:17:43.134 --> 00:17:46.474 Because a lot of people are wonderful in the conversation they say the exact 00:17:46.474 --> 00:17:49.854 right things like man i get it no that makes sense i'm going to do better i 00:17:49.854 --> 00:17:53.294 understand why you would feel that way you're right i do want to go after a 00:17:53.294 --> 00:17:56.694 career or that i am going to try harder i do want to read that book. 00:17:57.853 --> 00:18:01.413 And I'm not even saying they're lying in the moment, but they're not being honest with themselves. 00:18:01.733 --> 00:18:05.453 If they continue to say the right mouth noises and even make that sincere face, 00:18:05.633 --> 00:18:08.213 but then they don't follow through, that's a them thing. 00:18:08.513 --> 00:18:12.053 And their partner is going to start to get frustrated and tired with it. 00:18:12.233 --> 00:18:13.553 And I know there's a few possibilities. 00:18:13.753 --> 00:18:16.013 This is where differentiation and I think honesty matter. One, 00:18:16.113 --> 00:18:19.573 they genuinely don't view it as a priority, but they say the right things, 00:18:19.573 --> 00:18:23.113 make the right mouth noises, because they just genuinely don't want conflict. 00:18:23.213 --> 00:18:24.093 They're conflict avoidant. 00:18:24.193 --> 00:18:26.493 They're conflict averse. They want the conversation to end. 00:18:26.793 --> 00:18:29.973 They still want to be seen as the good guy or they want their spouse to just 00:18:29.973 --> 00:18:31.193 calm down. It's not a big deal. 00:18:31.673 --> 00:18:35.073 Or two, they genuinely mean it in the moment. They really do think, 00:18:35.233 --> 00:18:38.553 no, I really do want to change. That feels good. They feel good. 00:18:38.813 --> 00:18:42.853 But the second the moment passes, other things take priority again and again and again. 00:18:43.013 --> 00:18:46.533 There are some really interesting examples here. And I told one a long time 00:18:46.533 --> 00:18:51.133 ago that I got interesting feedback because the feedback I got was from people 00:18:51.133 --> 00:18:52.633 that I think missed the point that I was making. 00:18:52.833 --> 00:18:56.013 I met a summer league one time with my son, Jake and my son-in-law, 00:18:56.133 --> 00:18:59.133 Mitch, and we are going to drive to Chick-fil-A to get food. 00:18:59.613 --> 00:19:03.073 And I see an Ike's sandwich shop, which we now have where I live now. 00:19:03.213 --> 00:19:05.173 But at the time, those were a novelty. 00:19:05.433 --> 00:19:09.233 And so I just said, hey, do you guys want Ike's? And they were both saying, sure. 00:19:09.673 --> 00:19:12.833 And I said, no, no, we're going to Chick-fil-A because that's what I said we 00:19:12.833 --> 00:19:16.073 were doing. And they both, I think, were absolutely fine if we would have gone to Ike's. 00:19:16.353 --> 00:19:21.393 But what I had been realizing in the weeks leading up to that was how often 00:19:21.393 --> 00:19:25.793 I say, hey, let's do this thing. and then I impulsively change. 00:19:26.273 --> 00:19:31.473 And while people might say, oh no, that's okay. But in their internal world, 00:19:31.493 --> 00:19:34.033 they're already planning on Chick-fil-A and what they're going to get. 00:19:34.333 --> 00:19:40.333 And let's say that they don't want Ikes, but they also don't want to make me 00:19:40.333 --> 00:19:44.553 upset or they're worried that I will get angry or frustrated or whatever that looks like. 00:19:44.853 --> 00:19:48.573 It's okay for me to say, hey, here's what I'm going to do. And then that's what I'm going to do. 00:19:48.753 --> 00:19:52.093 Maybe even a better example is I was talking with a client once who this person 00:19:52.093 --> 00:19:54.893 was going to come over and help her to fix some projects around the house. 00:19:54.993 --> 00:19:58.513 She was a single mom and the person kept saying, oh man, I was going to, 00:19:58.633 --> 00:20:01.813 but then this other thing came up or I was going to, but then this thing got in the way. 00:20:02.273 --> 00:20:05.193 And while i understand that since he was going to 00:20:05.193 --> 00:20:08.153 do it for free he was volunteering to help her which 00:20:08.153 --> 00:20:11.313 is incredible i don't want to take anything away from him from doing 00:20:11.313 --> 00:20:14.453 that but for her it was continuing to 00:20:14.453 --> 00:20:18.453 let her down to the point where that was happening with a lot of people in her 00:20:18.453 --> 00:20:21.693 life and it was hard for her to really trust anybody and it was hard for her 00:20:21.693 --> 00:20:25.533 to not go to man what's wrong with me that people just don't follow through 00:20:25.533 --> 00:20:29.733 when they say they will and so i had a chance actually to talk to the guy at 00:20:29.733 --> 00:20:32.833 a later date and he handled it like a champ where, 00:20:33.093 --> 00:20:35.653 you know, and at first he said, Hey, I'm not getting paid for that. 00:20:35.853 --> 00:20:38.413 But even to have the courage to let her know, Hey, you know what? 00:20:38.493 --> 00:20:41.793 I'm going to make time on this time, but I want you to know that if another 00:20:41.793 --> 00:20:45.553 job or project comes up, that's something that I can get paid for, 00:20:45.733 --> 00:20:48.533 then I hope you can understand that that's going to take precedent. 00:20:48.693 --> 00:20:53.293 Even just so she knew versus just, Oh man, no, I, yeah, something else came up. 00:20:54.712 --> 00:20:57.512 And what he came up with, which I loved, was he just said, no, 00:20:57.692 --> 00:21:01.852 I like to tell myself I'm a man of my word. So if I say I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. 00:21:01.912 --> 00:21:05.172 And if somebody else says, hey, I've got this opportunity for you to do another 00:21:05.172 --> 00:21:09.352 thing, then he is going to say, can I do that at a different time, a different day? 00:21:09.752 --> 00:21:12.492 And if not, then I think I'll have to pass right now. And again, 00:21:12.652 --> 00:21:14.072 I don't know if that was just the right mouth noises. 00:21:14.232 --> 00:21:17.112 It really felt like that was who he was and what he wanted to do. 00:21:17.112 --> 00:21:19.912 Number three, they have no real intention on following through, 00:21:20.032 --> 00:21:23.552 but they're skilled at saying what needs to be said so they can keep their spouse 00:21:23.552 --> 00:21:25.332 hopeful, just enough hope to buy them time. 00:21:25.552 --> 00:21:28.332 And then the spouse on the other side of that starts feeling something that's 00:21:28.332 --> 00:21:31.912 hard to explain, but you kind of feel it in your bones. It's the, I'm not chosen. 00:21:32.132 --> 00:21:34.772 I'm not a priority. I'm always the thing that gets handled later. 00:21:35.232 --> 00:21:39.232 Or another way that I hear it is I do feel like he tried to understand, 00:21:39.232 --> 00:21:43.352 but I'm not actually, I'm not chosen and I don't feel protected. 00:21:43.352 --> 00:21:47.292 I don't feel safe. And here's the tragic part, if the partner who's disappointed 00:21:47.292 --> 00:21:50.592 keeps letting it happen or letting it go, keeps smoothing it over, 00:21:50.692 --> 00:21:53.612 keeps saying, no, it's okay, I understand, you're busy, you have a lot going 00:21:53.612 --> 00:21:56.352 on, the relationship learns that that is fine. 00:21:56.532 --> 00:22:00.792 Not because it's healthy and not even because it's okay, but because patterns 00:22:00.792 --> 00:22:02.232 are reinforced by what we tolerate. 00:22:02.652 --> 00:22:05.652 And I want to say this with as much love and as clearly as I can, 00:22:05.772 --> 00:22:07.312 eventually, most people value 00:22:07.312 --> 00:22:11.572 honesty, even when it stings over being disappointed over and over again. 00:22:12.374 --> 00:22:15.534 Because repeated disappointment starts to mess with your reality. 00:22:15.774 --> 00:22:19.174 You start asking yourself, man, maybe I am the problem. Am I too much? Am I crazy? 00:22:19.734 --> 00:22:23.014 Did I imagine how important this was? Because it felt like it was important 00:22:23.014 --> 00:22:24.494 in the moment when we had the conversation. 00:22:24.954 --> 00:22:27.434 And then as a couples therapist, I find myself often saying, 00:22:27.594 --> 00:22:30.394 oh, no, no, you're not crazy, but your body's starting to pick up on a pattern. 00:22:30.554 --> 00:22:34.194 The real invitation here is this moment isn't about fault. 00:22:34.354 --> 00:22:39.174 It's about honesty and about learning how to say things that might bring some 00:22:39.174 --> 00:22:42.834 discomfort and then recognizing we're still okay. 00:22:43.374 --> 00:22:47.354 We can have difficult conversations and still love each other and still stay connected. 00:22:47.574 --> 00:22:52.234 If this level of communication isn't truly something that someone's willing 00:22:52.234 --> 00:22:55.654 or able to do consistently, then differentiation asks, can I be brave enough 00:22:55.654 --> 00:22:58.914 to say that out loud instead of promising something that I can't sustain? 00:22:59.154 --> 00:23:01.514 And in this scenario, if he genuinely believes it in the moment, 00:23:01.694 --> 00:23:04.254 differentiation also asks, well, can I self-confront? 00:23:04.394 --> 00:23:08.074 Can I be curious about why I can say this and mean it, but something always 00:23:08.074 --> 00:23:12.714 seems to get in the way and not diffuse that or project that over onto my partner 00:23:12.714 --> 00:23:14.534 to put it onto them. That's a me thing. 00:23:14.974 --> 00:23:17.994 Because what message is that sending to my partner? Because when something truly 00:23:17.994 --> 00:23:20.994 matters to you, again, a work project, a deadline, something you're passionate 00:23:20.994 --> 00:23:24.174 about, you don't rely on good intentions. You build systems, 00:23:24.354 --> 00:23:27.034 you problem solve, you anticipate obstacles, you figure it out. 00:23:27.474 --> 00:23:31.054 So why are we not trying to figure these things out with our partner or for 00:23:31.054 --> 00:23:36.234 our partner or give them an honest answer that maybe isn't something that I'm interested in? 00:23:36.434 --> 00:23:41.134 And then we can talk about why. The question here isn't, is he a bad guy? 00:23:41.254 --> 00:23:42.454 It's not even, is he lying? 00:23:42.654 --> 00:23:46.554 It's not even, does he care? The deeper question is, is this something he's 00:23:46.554 --> 00:23:48.214 actually willing to organize his life around? 00:23:48.334 --> 00:23:51.554 And if the answer is no, or even I'm not sure, then differentiation asks for 00:23:51.554 --> 00:23:54.294 honesty, real honesty, not just the right mouth noises in the moment. 00:23:54.714 --> 00:23:56.034 Because intimacy doesn't come 00:23:56.034 --> 00:23:59.294 from saying the right things. It comes from doing the things that you say. 00:23:59.674 --> 00:24:03.914 You matter enough to me to figure this out. So this conversation, 00:24:03.934 --> 00:24:05.674 it isn't necessarily a red flag. 00:24:06.496 --> 00:24:09.996 It's more of like a yellow light moment. And those are moments that either get 00:24:09.996 --> 00:24:12.516 talked through, and then they can be turned from yellow to green, 00:24:12.536 --> 00:24:16.656 or they quietly accumulate and they go through a darker shade of yellow until 00:24:16.656 --> 00:24:18.676 eventually this becomes a red flag. 00:24:19.196 --> 00:24:22.716 And bringing this up doesn't mean that it has to get bigger. 00:24:22.916 --> 00:24:26.496 If it does, that's a sign of emotional immaturity. If I'm bringing something 00:24:26.496 --> 00:24:30.776 up and my partner immediately makes excuses or takes a victim role or pushes 00:24:30.776 --> 00:24:34.376 it back on to the person who's bringing it up, that's not going to build intimacy 00:24:34.376 --> 00:24:35.676 or connection in the relationship. 00:24:35.916 --> 00:24:40.596 The way that emotionally mature couples stay emotionally close is to have conversations 00:24:40.596 --> 00:24:44.276 and to be able to express the things that they would love to see in the relationship 00:24:44.276 --> 00:24:47.616 and then stay in the conversation to see if that is something that the other 00:24:47.616 --> 00:24:50.896 partner is interested in or even understands if we're in the same ballpark, 00:24:50.996 --> 00:24:51.636 what we're talking about. 00:24:51.856 --> 00:24:55.316 Now, I said earlier that I'm going to go into the deep end of the pool, 00:24:55.576 --> 00:24:56.916 the world of sex and intimacy. 00:24:57.296 --> 00:25:00.316 That's where this pattern shows up most painfully. And it might seem like a 00:25:00.316 --> 00:25:03.776 little bit of a stretch, but it's the same pattern playing out in a different arena. 00:25:04.216 --> 00:25:07.816 It's where I see this dynamic cause the most confusion and heartache and where 00:25:07.816 --> 00:25:11.156 couples have been entrenched in unhealthy patterns for such a long time. 00:25:11.376 --> 00:25:13.996 Because everything that I just described, the right mouth noises, 00:25:14.316 --> 00:25:17.736 genuine intention without follow through, the feeling of being understood but 00:25:17.736 --> 00:25:22.656 not chosen, nowhere does that land more or harder than in a couple's intimate 00:25:22.656 --> 00:25:24.116 life. Let's talk about intimacy. 00:25:24.396 --> 00:25:28.676 Let's talk about sex. The thing that's part of most, if not all marriages, 00:25:28.676 --> 00:25:32.756 and the thing that It gets weird faster than people expect as a couple's therapist. 00:25:33.056 --> 00:25:37.296 And then people don't know how to talk about it without turning it into a courtroom 00:25:37.296 --> 00:25:40.196 and litigation and having to defend themselves. 00:25:40.556 --> 00:25:44.016 I see a lot of couples and I see couples all the time who over time fall into 00:25:44.016 --> 00:25:48.016 what is by definition, basically a sexless marriage, less than I believe 10 00:25:48.016 --> 00:25:52.596 times a year or sex becomes transactional. It becomes a duty, a chore. 00:25:52.836 --> 00:25:56.376 It becomes a pity offering. It only happens after the, let's say the higher 00:25:56.376 --> 00:25:59.316 desire partner has begged enough or sulked enough or gotten sad enough that 00:25:59.316 --> 00:26:02.796 the lower desire partner thinks, okay, if I don't do something soon, 00:26:03.016 --> 00:26:05.336 then they're never going to stop doing what they're doing. 00:26:05.516 --> 00:26:08.556 So fine, I'll do it. So you'll stop feeling bad. And then they finally, 00:26:08.816 --> 00:26:10.136 hopefully come into my office. 00:26:10.826 --> 00:26:13.926 And we'll sort a few things out pretty quickly. The higher desire partner usually 00:26:13.926 --> 00:26:16.386 needs to stop begging and pressuring and stop shaming. 00:26:16.786 --> 00:26:20.806 They need to stop turning sex into a measure of worth. And we need to create 00:26:20.806 --> 00:26:23.326 some genuine curiosity instead of coercion. 00:26:23.706 --> 00:26:28.586 And almost always the lower desire partner. And I love the work of David Schnarch 00:26:28.586 --> 00:26:30.806 who says this is not pathologizing it with sex. 00:26:31.026 --> 00:26:34.226 There's a lower desire cleaning partner in a family. There's a lower desire 00:26:34.226 --> 00:26:35.826 cooking partner in the family. 00:26:35.946 --> 00:26:40.966 But the lower desire partner will often say, you know what? yeah, I want to repair this. 00:26:41.146 --> 00:26:45.046 I want to be more intimate. And I'm telling you that those sentences, 00:26:45.326 --> 00:26:48.546 those mouth noises are some of the most important moments that you'll ever feel in the room. 00:26:48.766 --> 00:26:51.026 Because sometimes I really do believe it's a sincere yes. 00:26:51.286 --> 00:26:55.186 And the person who has been overly anxious and clingy has just wanted to hear that. 00:26:55.366 --> 00:26:59.026 And they need a third party, a couple's therapist, an intermediary at times 00:26:59.026 --> 00:27:02.966 to be the one to say that, or to be the one that guides them to that conversation. 00:27:03.506 --> 00:27:05.806 But sometimes it's just the right mouth noises. 00:27:06.486 --> 00:27:09.466 Sometimes it's the thing that they know they're supposed to say, 00:27:09.686 --> 00:27:12.666 especially with me sitting there, guiding the conversation, making it safe, 00:27:12.806 --> 00:27:13.666 helping them not feel attached. 00:27:13.906 --> 00:27:16.866 And then there are times they genuinely mean it, but then nothing changes. 00:27:17.066 --> 00:27:19.366 They'll say, no, I want to work on it. I'll work on it in therapy. 00:27:19.686 --> 00:27:23.146 I'll start reading books. I'll take a course. I'll initiate more. I'll prioritize it. 00:27:23.266 --> 00:27:28.026 And the higher desire partner is at times in tears, grateful, truly. 00:27:28.526 --> 00:27:30.766 And they're not trying to be a jerk about it. They're relieved. 00:27:30.926 --> 00:27:33.846 They feel hope. They're so grateful now that we're going to have these conversations. 00:27:35.510 --> 00:27:40.890 They get out of the office and days or weeks go by, months go by and nothing changes. 00:27:41.350 --> 00:27:44.270 And the higher desire partner eventually says some version of, 00:27:44.410 --> 00:27:48.310 I would just rather know, like I could handle a hard truth, but what I can't 00:27:48.310 --> 00:27:51.310 handle is living in limbo. I can't continue to do this anymore. 00:27:51.530 --> 00:27:54.270 And I remember a friend of mine once said that when he went to his therapist, 00:27:54.430 --> 00:27:57.330 that that therapist said, but you can because you are. 00:27:57.690 --> 00:28:01.970 And that broke my heart as a therapist, because when somebody keeps saying, 00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:05.350 yeah, no, that's what I want, but their behavior says, no, you do. 00:28:05.510 --> 00:28:07.050 Start to feel like you're going crazy. 00:28:07.290 --> 00:28:10.050 You start to doubt yourself. You start to feel unwanted while being told, 00:28:10.170 --> 00:28:11.530 no, I want you. You're loved. 00:28:11.970 --> 00:28:16.210 And that is a uniquely painful place to live. And here's where I think Carl 00:28:16.210 --> 00:28:19.070 Rogers absolutely nails it with this concept of the curious paradox, 00:28:19.270 --> 00:28:22.670 which says, when I accept myself as I am, then I can change. 00:28:22.830 --> 00:28:26.030 I think this is one of the best examples of that curious paradox in real life, 00:28:26.030 --> 00:28:29.890 because in this scenario, when the lower desire partner finally has that courage 00:28:29.890 --> 00:28:32.390 to be known to say the true thing vulnerably, 00:28:32.850 --> 00:28:37.470 whatever that truth is, even if it's too difficult to hear, it creates a kind 00:28:37.470 --> 00:28:41.370 of a clean clarity that's actually stabilizing because then the higher desire 00:28:41.370 --> 00:28:42.570 partner can stop spinning. 00:28:42.730 --> 00:28:45.410 They can stop guessing. They can stop trying to decode mixed signals. 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:48.350 They can accept the reality. And from a place of acceptance, 00:28:48.570 --> 00:28:51.750 then you can start to do the work because now if the couple wants to repair 00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:54.490 intimacy, now they can do it with genuine curiosity between them, 00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:57.110 honesty, teamwork and actual behavioral follow through. 00:28:57.610 --> 00:29:01.350 So if one person, the higher desire partner is now saying, hey, I would love to. 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:05.439 Are you even thinking about it right now? And if the lower desire partner says, 00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:08.759 and feel safe to say, I'm not, I haven't thought about it much at all. 00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:13.839 Because now, instead of that person collapsing into shame or diffusing the anger 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:16.299 on back onto their partner, man, I told you I'm going to work on it. 00:29:16.479 --> 00:29:19.459 They can say, I'm not, but I'm willing to talk about it right now. 00:29:19.639 --> 00:29:20.919 So what's that like for you? 00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:23.859 What does that feel like? Or how often are you thinking about it? 00:29:24.259 --> 00:29:28.839 It takes courage to be known and it takes courage to know your partner and to 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:30.159 be able to operate from a place of, 00:29:30.299 --> 00:29:34.179 if we can start having these conversations, we can start to work on this situation 00:29:34.179 --> 00:29:39.059 and this concept of whole object relations in the relationship where other things 00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:40.679 in the relationship might be going really well. 00:29:40.739 --> 00:29:46.559 And we can embrace those and we can make space for these that maybe aren't going as well, but matter. 00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:51.659 That gets you to hopefully more connected conversations, more genuine intimacy, 00:29:51.919 --> 00:29:55.279 not these hope crumbs, not with maybe next week, 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:58.459 not with the mouth noises because intimacy and 00:29:58.459 --> 00:30:01.799 i'm not talking just sexual i'm talking emotional physical cognitive intellectual 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:05.179 spiritual intimacy doesn't grow in confusion it grows 00:30:05.179 --> 00:30:09.579 in truth and honesty that's one of the best ways to truly build trust even if 00:30:09.579 --> 00:30:13.019 it doesn't feel comfortable if you have questions about this question then send 00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:16.679 them into me go through my website or send them to me at contact at tonyoverbay.com 00:30:16.679 --> 00:30:19.979 i want to do more of these i want your questions and i I will provide answers 00:30:19.979 --> 00:30:24.299 and I appreciate the support. Welcome to the year 2026. 00:30:24.739 --> 00:30:27.399 I hope this is going to be a great year. Taking this out per usual, 00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:29.359 the wonderful, the talented Aurora Florence with her song. 00:30:29.459 --> 00:30:31.339 It's wonderful because I am telling you, if you get the right tools, 00:30:31.379 --> 00:30:32.779 you do the work and all those wonderful things.