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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to the virtual couch.

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This is part two of two in these
episodes we're talking about

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attachment styles, origin stories,
the healthy and unhealthy versions

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of a fictional couple, Jack and Jill.

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this couple is based off
of an accumulation of real

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couples we're exploring.

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What is at the core
of , their marital struggles.

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And it's stuff that I see in my office
as a couple's therapist on a daily basis.

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And if you have not listened to part
one, , I really think you need to stop

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this episode right now and go listen
to . We're talking about a lot of things.

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We're talking about the pursuer
and the withdrawal dynamic.

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About the origin stories of attachment
styles, . Work from a guy named Dan

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Siegel, who talks about co-regulating
each other's emotional states.

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Since I released the first episode,
the amount of feedback I've got on

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people that said, I had no idea that we
really are two central nervous systems

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that are just reacting to each other.

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That when you can really slow things down
or you're aware you can start to heal.

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Not like you'll fix everything in
a few days, . It can be a really

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big part to help you get out of
the negative cycle that you may be

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experiencing in your relationship.

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Previously in part one, following
Jack and Jill, these were two

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people whose childhood experiences
shared opposite attachment styles.

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Jill had learned to chase
love to avoid abandonment.

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She didn't wanna be alone, but she's
gonna chase, chase, chase and pursue.

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Jack Learned to retreat
to avoid rejection.

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Their nervous systems danced
this painful loop of pursuit and

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withdrawal, withdrawal and pursuit,
but both wanted the same thing.

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They wanted to feel safe.

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They wanted to feel heard and
understood, but they were finding

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themselves alone in their marriage.

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And it got to the point . Jack
pulls in the driveway.

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Jill's nervous system is
already on high alert.

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And Jack's , walking in, knowing that,
okay, what am I gonna run into as well?

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And so when they meet, they're already
in these heightened states of anxiety

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and fear and anger, and they do that
long enough that their bodies are

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just saying, oh, this is what we do.

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When I get around this person, I already
am anticipating how this is gonna go.

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So the game's already hijacked

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In part one, we watched Jill and
Jack play out this whole dynamic and

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it was rooted in their childhoods.

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Our childhoods do shape
our nervous systems.

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. Jill learned to chase
connection to feel safe.

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She had a mom who was present sometimes.

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So Jill would come home with
accomplishments or awards or

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things that she really needed to
process with her parents, and her

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mom would be available sometimes.

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And then when her mom would realize
she wasn't available, then she would

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go and apologize and cry, and Jill
would end up comforting her mom.

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Jill's dad was somewhat
absent, she learned that her

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feelings, her emotions were.

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Usually too much that she was the one
that needed to figure out, what can I do

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to make this other person feel better?

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Even if it was at the cost of
her own self, she would feel

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like she's betraying herself.

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So she chases connection to try to
feel safe, but she's chasing someone

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that is not trying to really connect.

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The familiar for her becomes
the person that is inconsistent

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and that won't be there for me.

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Jack learned to withdraw to feel safe.

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Jack had more of a, we'll call it
an abusive or violent upbringing.

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He learned take it to withdraw,
to sit this one out and

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while he craved connection.

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He saw that in Jill early on and
Jill saw his stoicism as safety.

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But then as they got together now these
real childhood patterns started to emerge.

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Now, the good news is that's normal.

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We often go toward the familiar in our
relationships, but the hope is that

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we will then be able to heal, ideally
heal together, but we're definitely

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gonna learn to heal ourselves.

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. They were fighting these ghosts,
but they were ghosts of their past.

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They were reacting not to really each
other, but to their history of trauma,

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of feeling not seen or understood.

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And so that felt familiar.

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So what if we could rewind, what
if Jill's parents had known how to

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hold space for her emotions without
making her responsible for theirs?

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And what if Jack's father had modeled
vulnerability instead of criticism?

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What if both of them had grown
up in homes where emotions were

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safe and repair was possible?

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And love, here's the key, was consistent.

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'cause then the kid can count on their
parent to be this lighthouse, this beacon.

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And it doesn't mean they're gonna
be a pushover or they can just

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walk all over their parents,

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if their parents really knew what
secure attachment was like, and

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bless all of us parents and older
people, and even people that are just

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start trying to figure this out now.

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We didn't know this stuff or
we weren't paying attention.

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Or sometimes you have to get to a pretty,
I wanna say crummy place to have to

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now say, I don't know what else to do.

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And then I can start
this journey of healing.

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Now some people do take on this journey
of somewhat victimhood and bless their

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hearts because that can be scary to
really be open and vulnerable and

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put yourself out there if you really
don't know exactly what you're doing.

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But today I wanna explore the version
of the story of what it would look

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like from a healthy standpoint.

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I think it's good to at least show
us , what healthy would look like

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or could have looked like with
the, bless our parents' hearts.

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They tried with the tools that they had.

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So there's some acceptance there.

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There's probably some forgiveness there.

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And now with that acceptance,
now I can move forward.

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Let's talk about the healthy path,
because these two paths don't just

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show you what happens in relationships.

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They show why we love and argue and
connect the way we do, and maybe most

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importantly, they can remind us that
while we can't change the past until

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somebody figures out a time machine,

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we can absolutely learn to rewrite the
patterns that the past has left behind.

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I'm one of those that would
always ask the question of why.

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Why do we take history classes again?

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And I would hear this because we don't
wanna repeat the past insert to joke

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about current situation in world now,
but in reality there's a lot of truth

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to that, that when I can see, oh,
these patterns lead to this outcome,

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if I think it's not gonna lead to that
outcome, boy, I think I'm pretty special.

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And so history is there to teach us.

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So let's step back into Jill and
Jack's story and see what happens

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when emotional safety is the
starting point, not the struggle.

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Now, before we go there, I would
love for you to go find me on

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Substack Substack, I think it's
dot com slash the virtual couch.

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There'll be a link in the show notes,
or go find me on Instagram at virtual

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couch or on TikTok at Virtual Couch.

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Or there's Tony over Bay Licensed
Marriage and Family Therapist on Facebook.

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And sign up for my
newsletter@tonyoverbay.com.

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Here we go.

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Back to this alternate path, if you are
familiar or if you're fresh off of episode

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one, it will sound a lot like the similar
story, but we'll hear what it sounds like.

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Healthy.

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So, Jill was seven years old
when she learned that feelings

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didn't have to be scary.

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She'd come home from school
heartbroken because her best friend

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had uninvited her from a birthday
party to invite somebody else.

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Instead, she'll try to hold it together.

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But she's a kid, she's
emotional, she's gonna cry.

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She's going to be
irrational by definition.

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By the time she walked through the front
door, she was crying, she was upset.

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Her mom was in the kitchen making dinner.

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She heard Jill come in, heard the
crying, she turned off the stove.

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She walked into the living room
and she sat down on the couch and

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she patted the spot next to her.

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Hey, come here sweetheart.

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So Jill sits down and her mom pulls her
close, and first her mom does not say

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things like, Hey, don't worry about it.

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It's not a big deal.

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Or you'll make other friends, or any of
the things that adults like to say, coming

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from a good place, in reality, to make
themselves feel like I am a good parent.

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I told them not to worry about
it, but does the kid all of a

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sudden go, holy cow, I did not
think about not worrying about it.

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No.

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Then they think, oh my gosh, I, and
my feelings are bad, or they're wrong.

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By doing this, Jill's mom didn't make
Jill's feelings feel smaller or wrong.

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She just said, Hey, tell me what happened.

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And Jill explained through tears, and
her mom listened and her mom nodded.

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And occasionally her mom rubbed
her back in slow circles.

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And when Jill finished, her mom
said, man, that sounds really hard.

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That looks like it really
hurt your feelings, didn't it?

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And Jill whispers.

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Yeah.

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And the mom says, you know,
that makes a lot of sense.

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I think that would hurt my feelings too.

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Being left out feels terrible.

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They sat there together for a few more
minutes in the silence, and that's

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one of the most difficult things to do
as a parent, is when there's silence.

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If you really break it down, I believe
so often, at least for myself, I

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get uncomfortable with silence.

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It's a challenge.

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In the therapy world.

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We're supposed to be really good
at sitting with silence so that

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the client will then say something
because with that silence, often

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I think, man, my job is to rescue.

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I gotta say something.

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Sometimes it's a joke.

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A lot of times it's just.

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Tell me more about that.

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But often letting the silence
just be also teaches us that we

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can sit with some uncomfortable
feelings and emotions and it's okay.

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Time passes.

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The world keeps spinning.

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So over time, Jill's breathing
even out, and her crying slowed.

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And her mom said, what do
you think you want to do?

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Do you wanna talk to your
friend about how you feel?

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Do you wanna take some space from the
friendship, or do you just want to

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kind of let it be and see what happens?

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And Jill said, I don't know.

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Her mom said, that is perfectly okay.

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You don't have to know right now,
but I just want you to know I'm here

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whenever you want to talk about it more.

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Would that be okay if I maybe checked
in on you again tonight and Jill said,

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I guess now I want to go on so many
tangents there can be a version of

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this that is the middle ground where
the parent is holding it all together

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and providing that space and safety.

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But then at some point the
parent realizes, okay, . I guess,

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I mean, how am I gonna know?

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And the parent can quickly
make it about them again.

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It's okay to just leave things there.

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Now, imagine that's the
pattern of Jill's childhood.

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Her feelings are allowed to exist.

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They weren't fixed or dismissed
or made into emergencies.

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They just were.

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Her parents held space for him.

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Later, when Jill didn't make a soccer
team at 10, her dad sat her on the front

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porch and said, man, how you doing?

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Are you okay?

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And again, she says, no.

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And he says, I can see that
you're pretty disappointed.

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He didn't try to make it better.

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He observed.

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He witnessed.

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He acknowledged, I see you.

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When Jill was anxious before her
first day of middle school at 11,

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her mom said, how you feeling?

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And Jill was scared.

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And instead of her mom saying, okay,
come on the party example, soccer,

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don't you see things get better?

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Oh no.

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She said, man, yeah, new
things can feel pretty scary.

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Is there anything that I could do that
would help you feel a little braver?

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And at first, Jill said, no.

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Then the mom threw out some options
and they talked through 'em.

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Her mom didn't take the fear away, but
she helped Jill feel less alone in it.

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And she packed her something
pretty cute and adorable at lunch.

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And when Jill saw that, 'cause she had
forgotten about it, she had a little

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chuckle and she felt seen when Jill's
first boyfriend broke up with her at 16.

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Both parents let her be sad , and
they just held her and they just

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sat with her and they watched movies
and they said, how you feeling?

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They didn't rush her past it.

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. They didn't let her stay
in bed for a whole week.

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They were there.

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They were grounded.

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She was able to borrow their nervous
system, their emotional regulation system

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like she had done when she was a baby.

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Part one, I quoted Dan Siegel quite a bit.

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He's the one that really popularized
the idea that our minds don't

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stop at the edge of our skulls.

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They extend into our relationships, and
he calls it interpersonal neurobiology.

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And it's the study of how
connections between us actually

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shape the wiring inside of us.

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Siegel often says we are creatures of
connection, so from the moment that

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we're born, our nervous systems are
designed to link up with someone else's.

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So a newborn doesn't have a
fully developed ability to

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calm down or regulated emotions
or feel safe on their own.

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So they borrow their caregiver's nervous
system, and that's what Jill was doing

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at times when she really needed it and
her parent could be grounded or calm.

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When a baby cries, the parent
will pick 'em up and rock

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'em and hum to them softly.

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That's co-regulation and action.

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The baby's heartbeat eventually slows down
to match the parents and the body learns.

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When I am upset and someone calm shows
up, I survive and I can even thrive.

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So that pattern, this nervous
system sinking together

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doesn't stop when we grow up.

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As adults, we do the same thing
, when we laugh with a friend or we

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hold somebody's hand, or we even
exchange just a genuine smile.

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Our nervous systems are
making a connection.

00:12:07.737 --> 00:12:11.182
We're sending these signals of
safe danger, connect or protect.

00:12:12.162 --> 00:12:14.652
So when you look at what healthy
co-regulation looks like,

00:12:14.802 --> 00:12:16.482
it feels more like teamwork.

00:12:16.842 --> 00:12:19.152
Each person can lean on the
other without losing themselves.

00:12:19.542 --> 00:12:22.212
You come home from a long, stressful day
and your partner can sense that you're

00:12:22.212 --> 00:12:25.062
tense and they don't immediately try
to fix it or just say, Hey, just relax.

00:12:25.752 --> 00:12:26.802
They just sit next to you.

00:12:26.892 --> 00:12:30.912
They maybe put a hand on your arm or your
leg and let that oxytocin, the cuddle

00:12:30.912 --> 00:12:36.312
hormone flow, the hormone of connection,
and they may say, how was the day?

00:12:37.122 --> 00:12:37.302
Rough.

00:12:39.147 --> 00:12:40.047
They say, I'm not a dog.

00:12:40.107 --> 00:12:41.357
Sorry, . I could not do that.

00:12:41.433 --> 00:12:44.793
, you might exhale and your shoulders
drop and you didn't need advice and

00:12:44.793 --> 00:12:48.003
your calm becomes contagious Often.

00:12:48.003 --> 00:12:51.787
All we need is that solid,
stable presence by us.

00:12:51.898 --> 00:12:54.628
The thing that if we would've had
more of that from our parents,

00:12:55.108 --> 00:12:57.358
bless their heart, a lot of 'em
didn't know what they were doing.

00:12:57.668 --> 00:12:58.508
They were doing their best.

00:12:59.273 --> 00:13:02.573
But if you look at it that way, when a
parent feels anxious and they're saying,

00:13:02.573 --> 00:13:05.603
Hey, I need to get you to calm down
because that will make me feel better.

00:13:05.933 --> 00:13:08.499
I need you to not do
that, , I need you to know.

00:13:08.499 --> 00:13:12.739
I need you to do and I need
you to understand are me things

00:13:12.739 --> 00:13:13.969
that would make me feel better.

00:13:14.479 --> 00:13:17.419
But as a parent, I would love to
help us get outside of our ego and

00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:19.099
say, how can I be here for you?

00:13:19.099 --> 00:13:20.449
Or I can be here for you.

00:13:20.449 --> 00:13:23.209
I can provide this safety,
this container for you.

00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:27.259
As I am here and present and calm and
not trying to fix or tell you you're

00:13:27.259 --> 00:13:31.699
doing something wrong, then your nervous
system can start to co-regulate with mine.

00:13:31.699 --> 00:13:32.779
Borrow mine for a little bit.

00:13:32.899 --> 00:13:35.449
I'm good, and together we will be good.

00:13:36.199 --> 00:13:39.259
But if I start saying, you know what you
need to do or you need to calm down, what

00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:43.039
I'm basically saying is, Hey, this is
uncomfortable for me even though you're

00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:47.449
the one that came to me with your big
emotions, but I need you to calm down.

00:13:47.929 --> 00:13:49.369
I could even say it in a nice voice.

00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:50.809
Hey, don't worry about it.

00:13:51.019 --> 00:13:53.959
It's not that big of a deal,
because if you'll then say,

00:13:53.989 --> 00:13:55.909
okay, I guess it's not, oh good.

00:13:55.969 --> 00:14:00.019
I not only feel better about myself, but
I can also say I'm a real good parent.

00:14:00.079 --> 00:14:03.019
So often the person that's coming
to us does not need advice.

00:14:03.829 --> 00:14:05.059
They need our presence.

00:14:05.209 --> 00:14:07.549
They need our calm,
they need our curiosity.

00:14:07.729 --> 00:14:08.629
They need space.

00:14:09.109 --> 00:14:13.549
They need to know I see you and I'm here
for you, and I don't have to fix whatever

00:14:13.549 --> 00:14:16.429
you're bringing me, and I'm not gonna
tell you what you're doing or thinking

00:14:16.429 --> 00:14:20.119
is wrong, and I'm not gonna make it
into a story about me even if I want to.

00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:22.779
Your calm becomes contagious.

00:14:23.579 --> 00:14:26.639
Another example of that is, let's say
you're nervous about giving a presentation

00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:28.169
and your friend says, Hey, you got this.

00:14:28.289 --> 00:14:29.339
You've done hard things before.

00:14:29.819 --> 00:14:32.849
Their grounded tone can help
your body remember your own

00:14:32.849 --> 00:14:34.889
capability that's co-regulation.

00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.879
Your brain literally sinking with
someone else's calm, confidence.

00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:41.939
Healthy co-regulation doesn't
mean one person is always the

00:14:41.969 --> 00:14:43.259
calm one either, it's mutual.

00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:44.009
It's reciprocal.

00:14:44.809 --> 00:14:48.199
When you are in an emotionally immature
relationship, co-regulation becomes

00:14:48.199 --> 00:14:52.369
one-sided and instead of a steady
exchange, one person ends up doing

00:14:52.369 --> 00:14:53.839
the majority of the emotional labor.

00:14:54.439 --> 00:14:57.709
Say you're upset after a difficult
conversation with your teenager,

00:14:57.709 --> 00:15:00.949
and you try to tell your partner
about it, and the moment that , you

00:15:01.069 --> 00:15:03.649
hesitate, or your voice shakes, they
will roll their eyes and they'll

00:15:03.649 --> 00:15:05.899
say, okay, you're overreacting again.

00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:07.699
Now all of a sudden, your
nervous system spikes

00:15:07.749 --> 00:15:10.419
not really because of what they just said,
but because the person that's supposed to

00:15:10.419 --> 00:15:13.799
be your person, your emotional anchor just
pulled away and instead of calming your

00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.749
body goes into fight, flight, or freeze.

00:15:16.549 --> 00:15:19.579
In these moments, your body
doesn't care about who's right.

00:15:19.819 --> 00:15:21.079
It just wants connection.

00:15:21.169 --> 00:15:24.629
And if that connection continues to
be inconsistent or unpredictable,

00:15:25.169 --> 00:15:26.459
your nervous system learns.

00:15:26.579 --> 00:15:29.759
Relationships equal instability,
and they're unpredictable.

00:15:30.104 --> 00:15:31.934
And that's the beginning of a trauma bond.

00:15:32.084 --> 00:15:35.984
Dan Siegel explains that the mind
is both embodied and relational.

00:15:36.784 --> 00:15:40.024
It exists in a this flow
state between brains.

00:15:40.144 --> 00:15:40.924
Let's get woo woo.

00:15:40.974 --> 00:15:43.614
. It's about an exchange of
energy, of safety, of peace.

00:15:43.664 --> 00:15:46.304
If you spend enough time around
somebody who's calm and present and

00:15:46.304 --> 00:15:50.444
emotionally safe, your own brain
starts to wire for calm and safety too.

00:15:50.474 --> 00:15:51.674
We will figure this out.

00:15:51.944 --> 00:15:52.694
We've got this.

00:15:53.084 --> 00:15:53.834
I'm here for you.

00:15:53.894 --> 00:15:55.904
I can make space for
you and your emotions.

00:15:56.499 --> 00:15:58.869
If you spend a lot of time around
somebody who's volatile, they're

00:15:58.869 --> 00:16:03.189
dismissive, they're unpredictable,
your brain wires for hyper vigilance.

00:16:03.189 --> 00:16:08.589
Instead, you learn to scan and anticipate
and appease and fix and play small.

00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:11.019
Your nervous system says, okay, I get it.

00:16:11.139 --> 00:16:15.249
Connection equals tension
and criticism and fear.

00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:15.699
Got it.

00:16:15.849 --> 00:16:16.719
I'm gonna prepare for that.

00:16:16.923 --> 00:16:19.473
So let's get back to Jill
because I wanna talk about Jill's

00:16:19.473 --> 00:16:20.973
parents and what they modeled.

00:16:20.973 --> 00:16:25.593
They weren't perfect, but Jill was able
to, on numerous occasions, watch her

00:16:25.593 --> 00:16:27.033
parents navigate their own conflict.

00:16:27.393 --> 00:16:29.163
They didn't pretend that
disagreements didn't happen.

00:16:29.523 --> 00:16:33.123
And there was one example in
particular that stood out to

00:16:33.123 --> 00:16:35.403
Jill when she was about 12 or 13.

00:16:35.403 --> 00:16:38.203
She heard her parents having a really
intense discussion about whether

00:16:38.203 --> 00:16:40.993
or not to take out a home equity
line of credit or a second mortgage

00:16:41.263 --> 00:16:42.823
for renovations for their house.

00:16:43.393 --> 00:16:47.813
And her father's voice was frustrated
and she remembers feeling tension.

00:16:47.843 --> 00:16:51.713
And she heard her dad say something
like, I feel like you're not hearing

00:16:51.713 --> 00:16:55.073
my concerns about the financial
risk that we're about to take on.

00:16:55.733 --> 00:16:57.863
And her mom's voice was pretty strained.

00:16:58.433 --> 00:17:01.193
And she said, and I feel like
you're dismissing what I'm saying

00:17:01.253 --> 00:17:02.513
about the house needing repairs.

00:17:03.323 --> 00:17:06.653
There was a pause and then her
dad said, okay that's fair.

00:17:06.683 --> 00:17:07.163
You're right.

00:17:07.163 --> 00:17:10.253
I am very worried about money and I
wasn't really listening to your point.

00:17:10.463 --> 00:17:11.303
Can we start over?

00:17:12.173 --> 00:17:14.503
And it's so fascinating because
if you're listening to this and

00:17:14.503 --> 00:17:16.633
if you found yourself thinking,
okay, what, what's the angle?

00:17:16.843 --> 00:17:17.923
Is he just trying to get his way?

00:17:18.733 --> 00:17:20.413
You're not cynical, you're
normal, you're human.

00:17:20.413 --> 00:17:22.093
That's what I thought as a
marriage therapist as well,

00:17:22.093 --> 00:17:23.113
when I first heard this.

00:17:23.913 --> 00:17:26.343
And then apparently they talked
it through and Jill heard them

00:17:26.343 --> 00:17:27.543
finding some sort of middle ground.

00:17:27.543 --> 00:17:29.913
She was very young though,
so she just remembers that.

00:17:29.943 --> 00:17:33.433
It was like the mouth noises got
very calm and it sounded like

00:17:33.463 --> 00:17:34.813
their parents figured things out.

00:17:35.143 --> 00:17:37.963
But then she still was a
little bit rattled from hearing

00:17:37.963 --> 00:17:40.213
them get intense or strained.

00:17:41.013 --> 00:17:43.173
But from what she could tell
both people bent a little bit.

00:17:43.413 --> 00:17:46.233
Nobody stormed out, nobody gave
anybody the silent treatment.

00:17:46.923 --> 00:17:50.223
And what was really amazing is later
her dad came to say goodnight to Jill

00:17:50.223 --> 00:17:54.123
and noticed that Jill looked a little
worried and he didn't just say, man,

00:17:54.153 --> 00:17:57.573
I don't wanna bring anything up, just
in case she didn't hear anything.

00:17:57.693 --> 00:18:00.363
And I think so often it's easier for a
parent to just say, Hey, goodnight champ.

00:18:01.083 --> 00:18:03.933
And then the kids left sitting there not
knowing what to do with their emotions.

00:18:04.593 --> 00:18:09.513
So her dad said, Hey, did you hear us
talking earlier and Jill 'cause of the

00:18:09.513 --> 00:18:13.653
work that had been done providing safety
and stability emotionally in the home?

00:18:14.133 --> 00:18:17.943
She said, yeah, 'cause I can
think of how many of us as kids

00:18:17.943 --> 00:18:19.263
would've said, no, I'm fine.

00:18:20.043 --> 00:18:21.063
Then the parent feels relief.

00:18:21.093 --> 00:18:21.603
Okay, cool.

00:18:21.603 --> 00:18:21.933
Good.

00:18:22.833 --> 00:18:24.383
But so Jill said, yeah, I did hear that.

00:18:25.073 --> 00:18:28.733
And he said, I know that might have felt
uncomfortable, but I just want you to

00:18:28.733 --> 00:18:32.433
know that I love your mom and we see
things differently sometimes, and that

00:18:32.433 --> 00:18:36.573
is perfectly okay, but we're working on
things, and we're working through them.

00:18:36.583 --> 00:18:39.163
Disagreeing does not mean
that we don't love each other.

00:18:39.963 --> 00:18:43.413
What Jill's nervous system learned
is that emotions are manageable and

00:18:43.413 --> 00:18:44.643
they don't destroy relationships.

00:18:45.273 --> 00:18:47.613
People can be upset and they
can still stay connected.

00:18:47.883 --> 00:18:52.023
Conflict can be resolved, and it doesn't
have to get mean or nasty or punitive.

00:18:52.113 --> 00:18:55.713
It doesn't have to end in this
fear of abandonment or in an

00:18:55.713 --> 00:18:57.183
explosion of big feelings.

00:18:58.053 --> 00:19:01.593
What she also learned was, I can feel
my feelings without being overwhelmed by

00:19:01.593 --> 00:19:07.643
them or overwhelming others, connection
is stable even when things are difficult,

00:19:08.213 --> 00:19:12.593
and we can have conversations that
might be uncomfortable because they're

00:19:12.593 --> 00:19:17.663
gonna actually turn into good moments
where we both feel understood and you

00:19:17.663 --> 00:19:20.303
start to feel that intimate connection.

00:19:21.293 --> 00:19:23.843
People can still disagree
and respect each other.

00:19:24.413 --> 00:19:28.433
It's safe to be vulnerable because people
will meet me there in my vulnerability

00:19:28.463 --> 00:19:29.963
and they won't use it against me.

00:19:30.763 --> 00:19:33.013
So by the time Jill left for
college, her nervous system was

00:19:33.013 --> 00:19:34.633
wired for a secure attachment.

00:19:34.993 --> 00:19:37.873
She could recognize her own emotions,
she could express 'em clearly and

00:19:37.933 --> 00:19:41.623
trust that others could handle
them if someone else couldn't.

00:19:41.953 --> 00:19:45.883
It wasn't like Jill didn't understand
why this person was acting the way

00:19:45.883 --> 00:19:50.113
they would, but she understood that
this is not somebody that I am wanting

00:19:50.113 --> 00:19:52.423
to spend a lot of time with or I'm
not gonna continue to open up to.

00:19:53.303 --> 00:19:55.883
She started forming friendships
where she could just be herself, not

00:19:55.883 --> 00:19:57.863
perfect, not performing, just present.

00:19:58.663 --> 00:19:59.953
And Dan Siegel's framework.

00:19:59.953 --> 00:20:01.753
Jill's mind had developed integration.

00:20:02.233 --> 00:20:06.643
Her parents had consistently provided what
Siegel calls mind sight or the ability to

00:20:06.643 --> 00:20:08.713
see and understand her inner experience.

00:20:09.313 --> 00:20:10.753
They were genuinely curious.

00:20:11.143 --> 00:20:13.903
She felt able to express
herself and not be perfect.

00:20:14.233 --> 00:20:17.173
She felt a connection with someone who.

00:20:17.543 --> 00:20:18.503
Truly saw her.

00:20:18.713 --> 00:20:21.743
So that's what she's gonna go seek
out in her adult relationships.

00:20:21.803 --> 00:20:24.563
She now knows her inner
experience is okay.

00:20:25.013 --> 00:20:25.883
It's fine.

00:20:25.943 --> 00:20:27.353
She's okay, she's fine.

00:20:27.873 --> 00:20:31.833
Her parents had served as her external
nervous system regulators when she was

00:20:31.833 --> 00:20:33.423
young, when she really needed them.

00:20:33.693 --> 00:20:36.543
And gradually then she
learned to internalize that

00:20:36.543 --> 00:20:37.893
regulation and trust herself.

00:20:38.493 --> 00:20:39.663
Her brain had wired itself.

00:20:39.663 --> 00:20:43.773
For one central belief, connection
is safe, and I can navigate emotions

00:20:43.893 --> 00:20:45.423
without losing myself or others.

00:20:46.363 --> 00:20:50.573
When your nervous system is wired to
trust that connection feels safe, then if

00:20:50.573 --> 00:20:52.853
it feels unsafe, that is not connection.

00:20:53.123 --> 00:20:55.103
So that's not someone that
I want to spend time with.

00:20:55.903 --> 00:20:56.803
Now let's turn to Jack.

00:20:57.133 --> 00:21:01.183
And this is again, in this alternate
path, in this version that I don't

00:21:01.363 --> 00:21:05.383
know if I've already made a joke
about that comes with the unicorn

00:21:05.383 --> 00:21:09.373
and the rainbow and the leprechaun
walking around with the pot of gold.

00:21:09.463 --> 00:21:10.213
But I guess I just did.

00:21:10.993 --> 00:21:13.873
Jack was nine years old when he learned
that struggling, didn't mean failing.

00:21:14.203 --> 00:21:17.713
He'd been trying to understand math,
long division for a week or more,

00:21:17.953 --> 00:21:20.503
and his teacher had explained it a
couple of times, but something about

00:21:20.503 --> 00:21:21.763
the concept just wouldn't click.

00:21:22.213 --> 00:21:25.393
And he really felt dumb, which
made it even harder to think,

00:21:25.393 --> 00:21:26.503
which made him feel worse.

00:21:26.533 --> 00:21:29.023
And it was just this loop,
this frustrating cycle.

00:21:29.483 --> 00:21:32.873
One night at dinner, Jack was quiet
and pushing food around his plate.

00:21:33.393 --> 00:21:35.053
His dad said, hey, you all right buddy?

00:21:35.833 --> 00:21:36.643
Jack hesitated.

00:21:37.243 --> 00:21:41.653
Much like we talked about in this
healthy version of Jill, he knew

00:21:41.743 --> 00:21:43.663
that he could express himself.

00:21:43.783 --> 00:21:47.773
In his experience so far, admitting
that you didn't understand something

00:21:48.163 --> 00:21:49.453
wasn't the end of the world.

00:21:49.453 --> 00:21:50.533
He's still a kid.

00:21:50.593 --> 00:21:52.663
So it's still risky because he's a kid.

00:21:53.113 --> 00:21:56.218
And this is why this is so important
to be genuinely curious and make

00:21:56.218 --> 00:22:00.818
space for your kids' emotions because
they're wired to worry because

00:22:00.818 --> 00:22:02.348
, anxiety is there for a reason.

00:22:02.348 --> 00:22:03.233
It's there to try to protect us.

00:22:04.033 --> 00:22:08.893
So it felt risky, but something in
his father's tone made him feel safe.

00:22:09.453 --> 00:22:10.443
He thought, why not?

00:22:10.443 --> 00:22:10.923
I'll try.

00:22:10.983 --> 00:22:13.683
And he said, I'm really stuck
on my math homework and I don't

00:22:13.683 --> 00:22:14.823
really understand long division.

00:22:14.823 --> 00:22:17.643
And I've tried, and my teacher
seems to be getting frustrated with

00:22:17.643 --> 00:22:18.963
me and I don't know what to do.

00:22:19.013 --> 00:22:22.373
And everybody else is getting it and
starting to do what Gottman calls

00:22:22.373 --> 00:22:25.403
Kitchen sinking, just throwing everything
in there because he just doesn't,

00:22:25.493 --> 00:22:26.993
he doesn't like how he feels inside.

00:22:27.683 --> 00:22:28.613
And so his father nodded.

00:22:29.423 --> 00:22:29.873
I hear you.

00:22:29.933 --> 00:22:31.343
Math can be really, really tricky.

00:22:31.553 --> 00:22:35.003
I remember long division giving me a lot
of trouble when I was your age as well.

00:22:35.993 --> 00:22:38.783
Not the version of Unhealthy
Jack that we heard last week

00:22:38.833 --> 00:22:40.173
his dad did not pull the.

00:22:40.533 --> 00:22:43.263
Napoleon Dynamite, uncle Rico,
a moment where he could throw

00:22:43.263 --> 00:22:44.403
a football over that mountain.

00:22:44.733 --> 00:22:48.603
He didn't say, you know, Jack, when I
was your age, I was actually teaching

00:22:48.603 --> 00:22:52.113
the class and the teacher long division,
and she was saying, thank you so much.

00:22:52.113 --> 00:22:56.223
I did not understand that concept
before you seven, eight, 9-year-old,

00:22:56.223 --> 00:22:57.693
Jack, help me understand.

00:22:57.953 --> 00:23:00.413
No, Jack looked up and said, really?

00:23:01.103 --> 00:23:03.023
And his dad said, yeah, it took
me forever to figure it out.

00:23:03.893 --> 00:23:06.713
And then his father paused and
took his last bite and he said,

00:23:06.953 --> 00:23:07.823
Hey, do you want any help?

00:23:07.853 --> 00:23:08.573
I'd love to.

00:23:08.573 --> 00:23:09.623
I'd love to help out if I can.

00:23:10.423 --> 00:23:11.803
They sat down together at the table.

00:23:11.833 --> 00:23:13.183
Jack showed his dad the problems.

00:23:13.233 --> 00:23:14.373
His dad didn't take over.

00:23:14.463 --> 00:23:15.513
He didn't do it for him.

00:23:16.353 --> 00:23:17.463
He didn't get frustrated.

00:23:17.583 --> 00:23:23.893
And I will say over and over, this was not
me as a parent, I know that if my kids had

00:23:23.893 --> 00:23:25.993
a struggle with something that I could do.

00:23:26.833 --> 00:23:28.333
Math was not my forte.

00:23:28.383 --> 00:23:29.673
I felt kind of silly.

00:23:29.673 --> 00:23:33.513
I did not help them much with math because
I think I was so immature, emotionally

00:23:33.513 --> 00:23:35.973
immature and embarrassed that, yeah, I
don't really understand it either, but

00:23:36.543 --> 00:23:37.953
to like third grade or fourth grade math.

00:23:38.523 --> 00:23:40.473
But if they had to write
something, oh, I love the writing.

00:23:40.923 --> 00:23:43.443
So then I don't know if my kids
were playing me or not, now that I'm

00:23:43.443 --> 00:23:44.433
thinking about this in real time.

00:23:44.433 --> 00:23:47.043
But if they were saying, oh my gosh, dad,
I just don't know how to write this thing.

00:23:47.473 --> 00:23:48.253
You like writing?

00:23:48.343 --> 00:23:49.993
And I, I would say yes, I do.

00:23:50.443 --> 00:23:52.243
And I would probably pull
an Uncle Rico moment.

00:23:52.483 --> 00:23:55.933
You know, I write a newspaper column
and a blog and I'm working on a book.

00:23:55.963 --> 00:23:57.853
They probably thought, yeah, we know.

00:23:58.513 --> 00:23:59.773
But then, I would help 'em write.

00:23:59.823 --> 00:24:03.243
And then, I got a lot of good
grades and middle school and in

00:24:03.243 --> 00:24:04.683
high school on behalf of my kids.

00:24:05.483 --> 00:24:08.153
But no, Jack's dad says, Hey, walk
me through what you're thinking

00:24:08.393 --> 00:24:09.383
when you look at this problem.

00:24:10.148 --> 00:24:11.288
Jack felt safe.

00:24:11.498 --> 00:24:12.518
He explained his confusion.

00:24:12.518 --> 00:24:14.108
His dad listened and said, oh, okay.

00:24:14.163 --> 00:24:16.353
I think I can understand
what's happening here.

00:24:16.353 --> 00:24:17.403
I can see where you're getting tangled up.

00:24:17.823 --> 00:24:19.093
Lemme show you how I think about it.

00:24:19.153 --> 00:24:19.723
That's what I like.

00:24:19.723 --> 00:24:21.943
And it wasn't a, well,
why don't you do this?

00:24:22.093 --> 00:24:23.143
Or You should be doing this.

00:24:23.943 --> 00:24:25.533
I hear you make space.

00:24:25.533 --> 00:24:28.173
And then, Hey, can I offer up something?

00:24:28.783 --> 00:24:31.003
Let me kinda show you what I do
or the way that it works for me.

00:24:31.003 --> 00:24:32.833
But you know, I want you
to find your process.

00:24:33.633 --> 00:24:34.953
So they worked through
one problem together.

00:24:34.953 --> 00:24:37.023
Slowly, dad breaks into smaller steps.

00:24:37.383 --> 00:24:40.263
And when Jack got confused again,
his dad didn't sigh or criticize

00:24:40.263 --> 00:24:41.793
and say, Hey, I already said it.

00:24:41.823 --> 00:24:43.833
I don't know what, what
else I'm supposed to do now.

00:24:43.833 --> 00:24:45.723
He said, okay, let's take a look
at it from a different angle.

00:24:46.023 --> 00:24:49.383
And by the end, Jack solved the
problem on his own and his dad

00:24:49.383 --> 00:24:50.523
smiled and said, you got it.

00:24:50.523 --> 00:24:52.533
And your brain just needed a minute
to catch up with the concept.

00:24:52.533 --> 00:24:53.523
And that's how learning works.

00:24:54.258 --> 00:24:57.018
This was a pattern of this healthy
version of Jack's childhood.

00:24:57.408 --> 00:25:00.978
When things were hard and help was
available, it was there without judgment.

00:25:01.398 --> 00:25:03.018
When he struggled, it didn't
mean that he was broken.

00:25:03.018 --> 00:25:05.508
It meant that he was learning,
which is the way we learn.

00:25:05.538 --> 00:25:08.538
You don't know things that you don't
know, and then you're gonna learn him.

00:25:09.048 --> 00:25:11.028
So when somebody else is saying,
man, that was easy for me.

00:25:11.688 --> 00:25:16.388
Okay, let me go get a some little
small trophies, some attaboy trophies

00:25:16.388 --> 00:25:17.588
and I can keep 'em around the house.

00:25:17.588 --> 00:25:20.798
And whenever you, you can tell me
about how great things were for you.

00:25:21.018 --> 00:25:21.858
I will give you a trophy.

00:25:22.658 --> 00:25:26.558
When Jack was cut from the basketball
team at 1314, he came home and he

00:25:26.558 --> 00:25:30.548
was devastated and his father found
him in his room that evening and he

00:25:30.548 --> 00:25:33.008
didn't say, you know, Michael Jordan
was cut from his team and he went on

00:25:33.008 --> 00:25:34.298
to be the greatest player of all time.

00:25:34.438 --> 00:25:34.948
there you go.

00:25:35.578 --> 00:25:36.058
Good talk.

00:25:36.448 --> 00:25:36.838
Go get him.

00:25:37.638 --> 00:25:41.508
No, he found Jack in his room and Jack
said, coach said, I'm not good enough.

00:25:42.258 --> 00:25:45.558
Jack's voice was tight and he
held back tears and his dad

00:25:45.558 --> 00:25:46.458
sat on the edge of the bed.

00:25:46.488 --> 00:25:48.618
He's like, man, that is
a hard thing to hear.

00:25:48.648 --> 00:25:50.053
I am so sorry that happened.

00:25:51.023 --> 00:25:51.773
What was that like?

00:25:52.013 --> 00:25:52.763
Jack shrugged.

00:25:53.003 --> 00:25:53.633
It doesn't matter.

00:25:54.593 --> 00:25:56.633
And his dad said, Hey, it's
okay to be disappointed.

00:25:56.663 --> 00:25:57.473
It really is.

00:25:57.743 --> 00:25:59.363
And getting cut sucks.

00:25:59.583 --> 00:26:00.873
I know you've worked really hard.

00:26:01.673 --> 00:26:04.793
And Jack finally looked up and there were
tears in his eyes and his dad didn't tell

00:26:04.793 --> 00:26:06.533
him, Hey, but rub a little dirt in it.

00:26:06.783 --> 00:26:08.343
, You're just lucky to even get to play.

00:26:08.403 --> 00:26:11.463
My dad, made me play basketball
with a rock I wouldn't even bounce.

00:26:11.463 --> 00:26:13.593
And we had no shoes, and
we played in the snow.

00:26:13.803 --> 00:26:14.433
He didn't hear that.

00:26:15.333 --> 00:26:18.313
His dad said, I'm just
proud of you for trying.

00:26:19.243 --> 00:26:21.373
And his dad sat there
present with Jack's pain.

00:26:22.213 --> 00:26:25.233
After a few minutes, his dad asked, Hey,
anything else you think about doing?

00:26:25.293 --> 00:26:26.913
Are you already thinking
about trying out next year?

00:26:26.913 --> 00:26:29.013
Do you wanna look at a different sport?

00:26:29.343 --> 00:26:31.053
Do you wanna take a break
on sports for a while?

00:26:31.293 --> 00:26:32.163
And Jack said, I don't know.

00:26:33.003 --> 00:26:36.273
And his dad said, that is absolutely
fair, and you don't have to

00:26:36.273 --> 00:26:39.873
decide right now, but I just want
you to know there's no thought.

00:26:39.873 --> 00:26:43.378
That's gonna be crazy here if you
want to go find a local badminton

00:26:43.378 --> 00:26:46.258
club, if you want to discover what
curling is, I'll get you a broom.

00:26:46.288 --> 00:26:47.698
Whatever you need, just let me know.

00:26:48.498 --> 00:26:51.768
Jack also learned about healthy
conflict by watching his parents.

00:26:51.798 --> 00:26:55.248
They disagreed sometimes about
money parenting decisions where

00:26:55.248 --> 00:26:57.768
to spend holidays, but their
disagreements never felt dangerous.

00:26:58.308 --> 00:27:06.258
As a matter of fact, the real ish client
that some of Jack is based off of said

00:27:06.258 --> 00:27:08.208
that he and a couple of his siblings

00:27:08.318 --> 00:27:10.898
they often viewed the conversation
that their parents would have about

00:27:10.898 --> 00:27:12.428
Where are we gonna go on vacation?

00:27:12.488 --> 00:27:15.248
He said, if it was the modern day, they
would've probably placed some bets.

00:27:15.713 --> 00:27:19.653
'cause he said it was fascinating because
they were hilarious, they were sarcastic,

00:27:19.653 --> 00:27:20.853
they were witty, they were funny.

00:27:20.883 --> 00:27:25.783
One year Jack's dad did a PowerPoint
presentation to try to make his case.

00:27:25.833 --> 00:27:29.033
That's a better way to
handle potential conflict.

00:27:29.333 --> 00:27:33.143
One evening when Jack was around 14,
he did hear his parents having a really

00:27:33.143 --> 00:27:34.313
heated discussion in the kitchen.

00:27:34.613 --> 00:27:40.613
So it felt off, and he remembers that
his mom's voice felt pretty tight.

00:27:41.183 --> 00:27:44.783
She said, I feel like I'm managing
all the kids' schedules all by myself.

00:27:44.813 --> 00:27:45.533
I need more help.

00:27:46.173 --> 00:27:47.763
His father's voice was a little defensive.

00:27:47.883 --> 00:27:49.983
He's like, Hey, I'm working
long hours right now.

00:27:50.043 --> 00:27:51.543
I'm not sure what else I can give.

00:27:52.173 --> 00:27:55.323
So there was tension and Jack
remembers feeling his chest

00:27:55.323 --> 00:27:56.703
tighten a knot in his stomach.

00:27:57.633 --> 00:28:00.003
And he just didn't know
what was gonna come next.

00:28:00.933 --> 00:28:03.453
He didn't know if there was gonna
be an explosion of anger or just.

00:28:03.888 --> 00:28:06.198
Silent treatment or whatever it would be.

00:28:06.528 --> 00:28:09.328
But instead he heard his
father take, a breath, a pause,

00:28:09.898 --> 00:28:11.348
and he said, you know what?

00:28:11.408 --> 00:28:14.528
I hear you and I can hear
that you're overwhelmed and

00:28:14.528 --> 00:28:15.848
I know I'm getting defensive.

00:28:16.188 --> 00:28:16.998
Can we have a timeout?

00:28:17.088 --> 00:28:20.988
Jack remembers this because he
remembers thinking timeout is in sports.

00:28:21.538 --> 00:28:23.908
I love that that seared
into his little brain.

00:28:24.688 --> 00:28:26.008
But his dad said, I need a timeout.

00:28:26.068 --> 00:28:29.718
I'm getting defensive and I need to calm
down because I want to listen to you.

00:28:29.778 --> 00:28:33.848
And he remembers his mom saying,
Hey, I need to take a break as well.

00:28:33.878 --> 00:28:34.778
And he remembers.

00:28:34.778 --> 00:28:38.048
His parents went out on a walk
and then they came back in and

00:28:38.048 --> 00:28:39.608
they seemed happy and joyous.

00:28:40.148 --> 00:28:42.848
And he said, they picked up the
conversation, they talked for another

00:28:42.848 --> 00:28:46.298
20 or 30 minutes, and Jack couldn't
hear it all, but he said he heard the

00:28:46.298 --> 00:28:50.948
tone, the vocal tones, the mouth noises,
and their voices gradually softened.

00:28:51.098 --> 00:28:55.568
And at one point he heard his mom
say, I really appreciate you making

00:28:55.568 --> 00:28:58.088
space and having the courage.

00:28:58.703 --> 00:29:00.743
To say I needed a break
that was really big.

00:29:00.893 --> 00:29:04.613
And then his dad saying, I
appreciate you the next day.

00:29:05.033 --> 00:29:09.683
His dad then apologized to the family
for being less present lately, and he

00:29:09.743 --> 00:29:14.393
acknowledged that he had been spending
a lot of time at work because he and

00:29:14.393 --> 00:29:18.763
his mom had had some misunderstanding
about some plans for the future, and he

00:29:18.763 --> 00:29:20.473
had felt like he needed to work more.

00:29:20.533 --> 00:29:23.173
So he told the family about a
new schedule where he'd be home

00:29:23.173 --> 00:29:24.463
earlier, a couple times a week.

00:29:24.493 --> 00:29:29.093
He was gonna help more with dinner
and homework, and he followed through.

00:29:29.423 --> 00:29:31.853
It wasn't just something to say to
make himself feel better in the moment.

00:29:32.183 --> 00:29:36.533
He took action and changed what
Jack's nervous system learned.

00:29:37.133 --> 00:29:38.303
Asking for help is normal.

00:29:38.303 --> 00:29:38.963
It's not weak.

00:29:39.203 --> 00:29:42.113
Vulnerability doesn't lead
to an attack or rejection.

00:29:42.773 --> 00:29:45.473
Conflict can be uncomfortable,
but not dangerous.

00:29:45.773 --> 00:29:50.153
It's okay to be aware that I'm starting
to get a little bit emotionally flooded

00:29:50.153 --> 00:29:51.743
or overwhelmed and I need to take a break.

00:29:52.283 --> 00:29:55.193
People can disagree strongly and they
can still love each other and emotions.

00:29:55.193 --> 00:29:57.503
Yours and others aren't
threats to be avoided.

00:29:57.533 --> 00:30:01.373
We'll find a way whether we have
to take a break, whether I need

00:30:01.373 --> 00:30:05.303
to do a reset, whatever that looks
like, we'll find a way through it.

00:30:05.933 --> 00:30:07.133
Taking space is okay.

00:30:07.133 --> 00:30:09.053
If you come back to
repair, that's the key.

00:30:09.863 --> 00:30:10.943
Connection feels safe.

00:30:10.973 --> 00:30:12.653
It doesn't have to feel suffocating.

00:30:12.653 --> 00:30:16.643
If I am noticing that I'm feeling
suffocated, I actually can take a

00:30:16.643 --> 00:30:20.123
break or I can express that to my
partner and not have this fear that

00:30:20.123 --> 00:30:21.353
they're gonna say, well, there you go.

00:30:21.383 --> 00:30:22.193
What am I supposed to do?

00:30:22.313 --> 00:30:23.903
Not go into this victim mentality.

00:30:24.703 --> 00:30:27.793
And his little nervous system learned
that other people's needs don't trap

00:30:27.793 --> 00:30:31.483
you their information about how to
care for each other or yourself.

00:30:32.173 --> 00:30:34.423
So by the time Jack leaves for
college, his nervous system was

00:30:34.423 --> 00:30:35.773
wired for a secure attachment.

00:30:36.853 --> 00:30:38.293
He could recognize his own limits.

00:30:38.293 --> 00:30:39.313
He could communicate them.

00:30:39.823 --> 00:30:42.403
He could be present with other people's
emotions without feeling overwhelmed.

00:30:42.403 --> 00:30:45.703
He could be independent without
being isolated and he knew

00:30:45.703 --> 00:30:46.753
how to take care of a unicorn.

00:30:47.203 --> 00:30:51.013
In interpersonal neurobiology terms,
jacket developed what Dan Siegel

00:30:51.013 --> 00:30:55.813
called integration, the linking of
these differentiated parts so he could

00:30:55.813 --> 00:30:57.853
be both connected and autonomous.

00:30:58.303 --> 00:31:01.423
His parents had modeled co-regulation,
a healthy version of co-regulation.

00:31:02.023 --> 00:31:05.433
When he would become dysregulated,
they stayed steady and gradually his

00:31:05.433 --> 00:31:12.258
brain learned that I can go to someone,
I can borrow their nervous system in

00:31:12.258 --> 00:31:17.913
a sense, and then I can now lean on
that to learn about myself, and I can

00:31:17.913 --> 00:31:21.753
learn to integrate that steadiness
into my own central nervous system.

00:31:22.553 --> 00:31:24.983
His brain had wired itself
for one central belief.

00:31:25.013 --> 00:31:28.343
Connection is safe and I can be
myself while being close to others.

00:31:28.373 --> 00:31:30.083
Now, how did Jack and Jill meet?

00:31:30.773 --> 00:31:33.563
Jack and Jill met through mutual friends
at a casual dinner party where they

00:31:33.563 --> 00:31:34.973
were both in their mid to late twenties.

00:31:34.973 --> 00:31:36.413
And it wasn't a dramatic thing.

00:31:36.456 --> 00:31:41.084
There wasn't the lightning bolt
or there, there weren't fireworks.

00:31:41.084 --> 00:31:44.804
And I hear so often people that will be
in a relationship and it feels nice, it

00:31:44.804 --> 00:31:46.754
feels good, but they say there's no spark.

00:31:47.534 --> 00:31:50.204
And what that means is,
there's not enough chaos here.

00:31:50.294 --> 00:31:52.424
So my central nervous system
doesn't know what to do with this.

00:31:52.634 --> 00:31:56.494
You don't have to have the lightning
bolt, you don't have to have the firework.

00:31:57.094 --> 00:32:01.774
But what you do want is to
feel safe and understood and

00:32:01.774 --> 00:32:04.804
heard and of worth and value.

00:32:04.984 --> 00:32:09.124
There isn't this instant certainty
if there is actually, that's the

00:32:09.124 --> 00:32:10.684
challenge, that's the problem.

00:32:11.014 --> 00:32:13.714
Why did I all of a sudden just
feel this immediate connection?

00:32:13.924 --> 00:32:16.504
Oh my gosh, that's because it's
like my parent, it's my dad.

00:32:16.534 --> 00:32:20.194
My nervous system said this
feels good drama, chaos.

00:32:20.584 --> 00:32:21.184
Sign me up.

00:32:22.129 --> 00:32:27.649
No, that's what we want to work on
ourselves, and we want to be able

00:32:27.649 --> 00:32:32.599
to enter relationships where we
feel safe and understood, not just

00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.749
a connection, a bond, a trauma bond.

00:32:35.899 --> 00:32:36.859
That's not the goal.

00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:40.429
So when they met, they had some
pleasant conversations with

00:32:40.489 --> 00:32:41.719
people who seemed interesting.

00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.609
It's not gonna find itself
into a Taylor Swift song, but

00:32:45.699 --> 00:32:47.049
we're talking about stability.

00:32:48.009 --> 00:32:51.579
Jill was talking with a group when
Jack joined and she asked him about

00:32:51.579 --> 00:32:55.209
his work, and he actually asked her
about hers, not so that he could

00:32:55.209 --> 00:32:56.559
then tell more stories about himself.

00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:57.579
The conversation flowed.

00:32:57.639 --> 00:32:58.959
There was a natural rhythm to it.

00:32:59.589 --> 00:33:01.809
Jill noticed that Jack seemed
comfortable in his own skin.

00:33:01.809 --> 00:33:03.339
He wasn't dominating the conversation.

00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:04.869
He wasn't baiting into the background.

00:33:04.959 --> 00:33:07.599
He was asking thoughtful questions,
but then he would also share

00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:11.319
his own stories, and they didn't
seem kind of crazy or grandiose.

00:33:11.649 --> 00:33:13.749
There was a balance to him that felt easy.

00:33:14.549 --> 00:33:16.589
Jack noticed that Jill laughed genuinely.

00:33:16.619 --> 00:33:20.789
She made eye contact without it feeling
intense, and she seemed very curious

00:33:20.789 --> 00:33:22.349
about people without being intrusive.

00:33:23.189 --> 00:33:24.959
And when somebody in the group
shared a story about a recent

00:33:24.959 --> 00:33:29.249
work failure, Jill said, oh man,
that sounds frustrating, period.

00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:33.659
She didn't try to fix it or minimize
it, and Jack appreciated that too.

00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:37.949
She could sit with discomfort without
needing to manage it away, but it's okay.

00:33:37.949 --> 00:33:40.979
You're the very best, I think
of, , this joke often where people

00:33:40.979 --> 00:33:44.669
that are so, so, so kind that if
somebody says, man, you know what?

00:33:44.729 --> 00:33:46.289
I just can't stop murdering people.

00:33:46.589 --> 00:33:49.949
And then it's like the kind person,
my joke in my head is always, they're

00:33:49.949 --> 00:33:52.319
gonna say, I bet you're the best
murderer, though you're probably

00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.579
the nicest murderer there is.

00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:55.199
So don't, don't get down on yourself.

00:33:55.889 --> 00:33:56.909
Sounds nice.

00:33:57.059 --> 00:34:00.249
But , it's really this form , of
trying to get rid of the

00:34:00.249 --> 00:34:01.899
discomfort and manage it away.

00:34:02.709 --> 00:34:06.339
At one point a friend tried to rope jack
into helping with the a last minute move.

00:34:06.363 --> 00:34:10.063
The next day, his only day off
after a busy week, this was

00:34:10.063 --> 00:34:11.533
where the masterclass set in.

00:34:11.623 --> 00:34:12.373
According to Jill.

00:34:12.973 --> 00:34:16.363
She watched Jack say kindly, but
clearly, man, I can't tomorrow.

00:34:16.393 --> 00:34:19.733
I've got some plans that I've already
made with people and I'm a man of my word.

00:34:19.763 --> 00:34:23.213
I follow through on things and then
the guy's like, man, and he made the

00:34:23.213 --> 00:34:27.653
right mouth noises or tried to, and
facial expressions and posture shifts.

00:34:28.043 --> 00:34:30.563
I was like, oh man, I just, I really
thought you'd be able to help.

00:34:30.563 --> 00:34:31.493
I don't know what I'm gonna do.

00:34:32.293 --> 00:34:33.763
And everybody just sat there silent.

00:34:33.823 --> 00:34:36.823
It sounds to those who are
so pathologically kind like

00:34:36.913 --> 00:34:37.933
somebody needs to help him.

00:34:38.533 --> 00:34:43.243
And if no one is in a position to help
because they know themselves, then that

00:34:43.243 --> 00:34:45.433
does sound really difficult, period.

00:34:45.763 --> 00:34:47.473
I don't have to fix it or manage it away.

00:34:48.273 --> 00:34:49.743
Jill noticed the boundary.

00:34:50.193 --> 00:34:52.713
It was set without guilt,
without overexplaining.

00:34:52.713 --> 00:34:54.213
What a key concept that is.

00:34:54.603 --> 00:34:57.123
The more you explain, the more
you are handing this person, this

00:34:57.123 --> 00:34:59.763
attack surface that they can say,
oh, well I'll poke holes in that.

00:35:00.288 --> 00:35:00.558
Yeah.

00:35:00.618 --> 00:35:02.448
That what if that those
plans fall through?

00:35:02.728 --> 00:35:04.718
, Is that friend maybe they
don't really wanna go.

00:35:04.718 --> 00:35:08.578
And you might even be doing 'em a
favor without overexplaining and

00:35:08.668 --> 00:35:09.748
especially without being harsh.

00:35:10.288 --> 00:35:11.758
That's refreshing thought, Jill.

00:35:12.238 --> 00:35:14.418
He can say no without drama.

00:35:15.298 --> 00:35:17.158
So they exchanged numbers before leaving.

00:35:17.308 --> 00:35:19.468
The texting that followed was comfortable.

00:35:19.858 --> 00:35:22.768
Jill would text, Jack would respond
within a reasonable timeframe.

00:35:23.308 --> 00:35:24.478
Neither of them overthought.

00:35:24.508 --> 00:35:26.608
It's been two hours, probably
doesn't like me anymore.

00:35:27.388 --> 00:35:30.148
And sometimes he initiated
and sometimes she did.

00:35:30.418 --> 00:35:31.678
There wasn't gameplay.

00:35:31.708 --> 00:35:34.318
No three-day wait rules, no
anxiety about response times.

00:35:35.008 --> 00:35:37.378
After a few weeks of texting,
Jack suggested they go to

00:35:37.378 --> 00:35:38.548
coffee and Jill said yes.

00:35:38.548 --> 00:35:39.658
And the coffee date went well.

00:35:40.018 --> 00:35:42.358
Two hours of conversation
that felt natural, not forced.

00:35:42.358 --> 00:35:45.568
They discovered shared interest in
hiking and obscured documentaries,

00:35:45.628 --> 00:35:49.468
and they laughed about bad dating
stories and they didn't view that as

00:35:49.558 --> 00:35:51.208
an, an attack surface to criticize.

00:35:51.868 --> 00:35:55.108
If Jill talked about her dates,
Jack didn't feel jealous and say,

00:35:55.108 --> 00:35:56.163
well, you don't talk to him anymore.

00:35:56.163 --> 00:35:56.403
Do.

00:35:57.198 --> 00:35:57.978
They admitted to each other.

00:35:57.978 --> 00:36:00.108
That dating in their late
twenties felt pretty exhausting.

00:36:00.738 --> 00:36:03.528
When Jack walked Jill to her car,
he said, Hey, I would love to see

00:36:03.528 --> 00:36:04.398
you again if you're interested.

00:36:04.428 --> 00:36:05.868
And she said, I would like that too.

00:36:06.588 --> 00:36:06.768
What?

00:36:06.768 --> 00:36:08.988
Neither of them consciously realized
that they were both attracted to

00:36:08.988 --> 00:36:11.928
emotional health because their
nervous systems recognized it as safe.

00:36:12.798 --> 00:36:17.358
The research on secure attachment, it
continually shows that securely attached

00:36:17.358 --> 00:36:21.078
people tend to partner with other
securely attached individuals at rates

00:36:21.078 --> 00:36:22.908
far higher than chance would predict.

00:36:23.008 --> 00:36:25.888
There's some research by Cindy Hazen
and Philip Schafer, and they found

00:36:25.888 --> 00:36:28.858
that secure individuals are more
likely to recognize and be attracted

00:36:28.858 --> 00:36:31.558
to security than over chaos or drama.

00:36:31.558 --> 00:36:31.858
Why?

00:36:32.128 --> 00:36:34.678
'cause their nervous systems have
been wired to recognize emotional

00:36:34.678 --> 00:36:38.038
availability, consistency, and a
big one that I hear in my office.

00:36:38.038 --> 00:36:39.268
People want reciprocity.

00:36:40.138 --> 00:36:44.578
And so in a healthy, secure relationship
that is there, it is available.

00:36:44.578 --> 00:36:47.428
If you don't have that in your
relationship now, go get help.

00:36:48.228 --> 00:36:52.008
Not trying to do an ad, but if
you, if you like my content, reach

00:36:52.008 --> 00:36:53.748
out, contact@tonyoverbay.com.

00:36:53.778 --> 00:36:55.218
Tell me your story from time to time.

00:36:55.218 --> 00:36:59.648
I have room to work with couples, but
these things like emotional availability,

00:36:59.648 --> 00:37:03.068
consistency, reciprocity, those become
indicators of safe relationships.

00:37:03.848 --> 00:37:06.338
They're not seeking intensity or
drama because their nervous systems

00:37:06.338 --> 00:37:08.258
don't confuse anxiety with attraction.

00:37:09.058 --> 00:37:13.078
So when Jill had a stressful week a
month or two into dating Jack, she told

00:37:13.078 --> 00:37:15.568
him straightforward, I'm wiped out.

00:37:15.568 --> 00:37:18.298
Are you cool if we did something
really low key this weekend,

00:37:18.298 --> 00:37:19.408
instead of going to that concert?

00:37:19.948 --> 00:37:21.898
And Jack said, oh yeah, of course.

00:37:22.228 --> 00:37:22.978
What sounds good to you?

00:37:23.248 --> 00:37:25.858
He didn't say, oh man,
I already paid for it.

00:37:26.938 --> 00:37:28.198
I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

00:37:28.438 --> 00:37:31.438
I know you said you're uncomfortable,
but that isn't good for me.

00:37:31.468 --> 00:37:35.008
So can you bring all that discomfort with
you and come with me so I can be happy?

00:37:35.578 --> 00:37:35.878
No.

00:37:36.678 --> 00:37:37.968
He said, do you wanna just order food?

00:37:37.998 --> 00:37:39.048
Watch a movie at my place.

00:37:39.048 --> 00:37:40.098
He said, that sounds perfect.

00:37:40.098 --> 00:37:42.803
No guilt from Jack, no anxiety
from Jill that she would disappoint

00:37:42.803 --> 00:37:45.413
him, just flexibility and care.

00:37:46.013 --> 00:37:50.123
And they spent the evening running a,
a brush through Jack's unicorn's hair.

00:37:50.723 --> 00:37:54.053
Now, when Jack needed to focus on
a major project deadline, six weeks

00:37:54.053 --> 00:37:56.933
into the relationship, he texted
Jill, Hey, I'm gonna be pretty

00:37:57.113 --> 00:37:58.463
heads down with work this week.

00:37:58.553 --> 00:38:00.083
Can we plan something for next Friday?

00:38:00.203 --> 00:38:03.143
I so miss you, but I really need
to get through this crunch time.

00:38:03.833 --> 00:38:05.723
Jill is able to actually be disappointed.

00:38:05.753 --> 00:38:09.293
Oh, man, I'm bummed, but that's
a human emotion, but no problem.

00:38:09.563 --> 00:38:10.523
Hey, good luck with the project.

00:38:10.523 --> 00:38:12.713
Let me know if you need me to
drop anything off, or can I

00:38:12.713 --> 00:38:13.913
give you some encouraging texts?

00:38:14.543 --> 00:38:17.873
So Gil did not interpret his
need for space as rejection.

00:38:18.563 --> 00:38:21.743
Her nervous system didn't activate
into panic about abandonment.

00:38:22.523 --> 00:38:26.093
She didn't have to continually
question his message, and she was

00:38:26.093 --> 00:38:27.923
able to take him for his word.

00:38:28.628 --> 00:38:29.828
She recognized it for what it was.

00:38:29.828 --> 00:38:33.728
It's a temporary boundary based on a
certain set of external circumstances,

00:38:33.728 --> 00:38:35.078
not a statement about the relationship.

00:38:35.168 --> 00:38:38.258
There's some research from a variety
of attachment theorists that says

00:38:38.258 --> 00:38:41.678
securely attached individuals show
several key characteristics in dating.

00:38:42.278 --> 00:38:46.268
They can express needs directly
without anxiety or defensiveness, and

00:38:46.268 --> 00:38:48.998
they respond to their partner's needs
without feeling threatened or burdened.

00:38:49.658 --> 00:38:52.268
They maintain their sense of self
while being emotionally available,

00:38:52.718 --> 00:38:56.498
and they interpret behavior through a
lens of trust rather than than threat.

00:38:56.558 --> 00:38:59.948
And I just, I want people to be
aware that this is a thing, and if

00:38:59.948 --> 00:39:04.118
you aren't this thing currently,
it doesn't mean that you can't be.

00:39:04.238 --> 00:39:05.588
It doesn't mean that you can't become.

00:39:06.158 --> 00:39:10.628
I just want you to recognize why
these things are happening in your

00:39:10.628 --> 00:39:14.348
own central nervous system and in
this dance of emotions with your

00:39:14.348 --> 00:39:18.968
partner, because learning is the
first step on your path to growth.

00:39:19.568 --> 00:39:23.138
Jack and Jill were doing these things
naturally without conscious effort

00:39:23.138 --> 00:39:24.728
because their childhoods had wired for it.

00:39:24.908 --> 00:39:28.808
There's a guy named Stan Takin, and he
has a thing called a packed framework,

00:39:29.268 --> 00:39:33.188
and he suggests that secure individuals
unconsciously screen for other secure

00:39:33.188 --> 00:39:37.208
individuals because their nervous
systems can distinguish between familiar

00:39:37.208 --> 00:39:40.178
and safe versus familiar unsafe.

00:39:40.778 --> 00:39:43.538
So Jack's calm presence
didn't trigger Jill's anxiety.

00:39:43.538 --> 00:39:45.008
It felt genuinely peaceful.

00:39:45.518 --> 00:39:48.188
Jill's warmth didn't trigger
Jack's fear of being suffocated.

00:39:48.278 --> 00:39:49.628
It felt genuinely caring.

00:39:50.548 --> 00:39:54.238
This is very distinct from the
typical anxious avoidant pairing

00:39:54.238 --> 00:39:58.468
or the anxious avoidant loop where
calm distance triggers pursuit and

00:39:58.468 --> 00:40:00.238
emotional intensity triggers withdrawal.

00:40:00.883 --> 00:40:03.433
Jack and Jill weren't triggering
each other's defense systems.

00:40:03.433 --> 00:40:05.863
They were meeting each other
in a regulated middle ground.

00:40:06.793 --> 00:40:09.493
So after a few months of dating, they
had their first real disagreement.

00:40:09.493 --> 00:40:11.743
Jill wanted to spend Thanksgiving
with her family, and Jack had

00:40:11.743 --> 00:40:14.503
assumed they would spend it with
his, but they had not discussed it.

00:40:15.073 --> 00:40:18.373
So they both felt surprised by the other's
expectation, but they also realized,

00:40:18.373 --> 00:40:19.423
I guess we never talked about this.

00:40:20.023 --> 00:40:20.863
So Jill brings it up.

00:40:21.313 --> 00:40:22.993
I think we assume different
things about Thanksgiving.

00:40:23.143 --> 00:40:25.183
Are you cool if we talk
about what we each want?

00:40:25.843 --> 00:40:30.193
And Jack admitted he felt a flash of
defensiveness, but that was his cue

00:40:30.223 --> 00:40:35.533
to be able to ground himself, pause
and then jump into this conversation.

00:40:36.133 --> 00:40:37.993
He thought, why does this
have to be this complicated?

00:40:38.053 --> 00:40:40.603
But then he recognized the
feeling and he took a breath.

00:40:41.323 --> 00:40:41.983
That's a me thing.

00:40:42.463 --> 00:40:44.353
So he said, that is a great idea.

00:40:44.413 --> 00:40:46.693
Honestly, I was hoping you would
come with me 'cause I just wanna

00:40:46.693 --> 00:40:49.063
show you off to everybody, but I
realize we never talked about it.

00:40:49.783 --> 00:40:50.293
And she said.

00:40:50.998 --> 00:40:51.448
Same.

00:40:51.478 --> 00:40:54.178
I was planning to go to my parents'
place and I thought that it would be

00:40:54.178 --> 00:40:57.028
fun to take you there, but I would
actually love to meet your family.

00:40:57.118 --> 00:41:00.698
Maybe, we could do one at Thanksgiving
and one at Christmas, and they

00:41:00.698 --> 00:41:01.598
talked through the options.

00:41:01.598 --> 00:41:03.698
Jack admitted feeling a
little disappointed again.

00:41:03.698 --> 00:41:04.208
That's okay.

00:41:04.688 --> 00:41:05.588
Jill acknowledged the same.

00:41:05.588 --> 00:41:08.768
She was too, but neither made
it mean something catastrophic

00:41:08.768 --> 00:41:10.958
about the relationship, and so
they landed on a compromise.

00:41:11.018 --> 00:41:12.788
Thanksgiving with Jack's family.

00:41:12.788 --> 00:41:13.838
Christmas with Jill's.

00:41:14.438 --> 00:41:17.558
This is our first real negotiation,
Jack said with a small smile.

00:41:17.558 --> 00:41:18.488
I think we did okay.

00:41:19.208 --> 00:41:20.018
What allowed this?

00:41:20.528 --> 00:41:23.108
Their nervous systems weren't
interpreting conflict as danger.

00:41:23.108 --> 00:41:26.498
Disagreement didn't mean abandonment
or attack, it just meant that they

00:41:26.498 --> 00:41:29.888
needed to understand each other and
then they could find solutions together.

00:41:30.788 --> 00:41:34.818
Sue Johnson, the founder of Emotionally
Focused Therapy, EFT, has research

00:41:34.908 --> 00:41:38.208
that shows that secure couples can
move through conflict while maintaining

00:41:38.208 --> 00:41:43.158
connection because that attachment bond
provides safety even during disagreement.

00:41:43.758 --> 00:41:46.698
Jack and Jill got engaged after a couple
of years of dating, and the proposal was

00:41:46.698 --> 00:41:48.108
thoughtful, but it wasn't performative.

00:41:48.738 --> 00:41:51.738
They had talked about marriage openly for
months, so it kind of wasn't a surprise.

00:41:51.768 --> 00:41:52.398
They both wanted it.

00:41:52.398 --> 00:41:53.118
They both felt ready.

00:41:53.568 --> 00:41:55.968
When Jack proposed during a
weekend hiking trip, Jill said yes.

00:41:55.968 --> 00:41:59.208
Tears in her eyes, not because it was a
surprise, but because it just felt right.

00:41:59.778 --> 00:42:01.998
They weren't operating from
this unconscious hope of healing

00:42:02.028 --> 00:42:04.578
childhood wounds through, through
their reunion, their partnership.

00:42:05.238 --> 00:42:09.558
They were choosing each other from a place
of wholeness, not from a place of need.

00:42:09.768 --> 00:42:10.458
It is not.

00:42:10.488 --> 00:42:12.078
We are two halves and we become one.

00:42:12.498 --> 00:42:18.239
We are two complete individuals,
and we can become even better as we

00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:21.629
have shared experiences with people
that we feel a connection with.

00:42:21.769 --> 00:42:24.465
Fast forward, Jack and Jill,
they've been married a few years.

00:42:24.465 --> 00:42:25.575
Their life is not perfect.

00:42:25.725 --> 00:42:26.535
They have stress.

00:42:26.565 --> 00:42:27.315
They have hard days.

00:42:27.315 --> 00:42:28.545
They have moments of misunderstanding.

00:42:28.575 --> 00:42:33.345
Everyone does, but the relationship
feels like a resource, not a liability.

00:42:33.375 --> 00:42:34.185
That's the key.

00:42:34.665 --> 00:42:37.635
I have another human I can
interact with to process emotion.

00:42:38.970 --> 00:42:44.100
When your nervous system can become
wired for safety and connection and not

00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:47.700
spending your time defending yourself
or trying to attack or withdraw,

00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:50.340
then you want to go to this person.

00:42:50.430 --> 00:42:52.590
'cause they're a
resource, not a liability.

00:42:53.010 --> 00:42:54.420
This is somebody, this is your person.

00:42:54.600 --> 00:42:58.240
We're gonna bounce ideas off of each other
and I'm not gonna feel criticized or I'm

00:42:58.240 --> 00:43:01.660
not gonna be made to feel like a buffoon
for having my own thoughts and opinions.

00:43:01.870 --> 00:43:05.560
So then it's a Saturday afternoon and
they navigate something that could have

00:43:05.590 --> 00:43:09.010
easily become a big conflict because it's
one of, one of my top five hard things.

00:43:09.070 --> 00:43:09.490
It is.

00:43:09.610 --> 00:43:13.990
You got intimacy, parenting,
finances, religion, politics.

00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:18.100
Joe comes home from a mechanic with the
news, if you remember part one at all.

00:43:19.060 --> 00:43:22.630
We're gonna do a similar scenario,
but the good version, Jill comes

00:43:22.630 --> 00:43:24.190
home from a mechanic with news.

00:43:24.190 --> 00:43:28.330
Their car needs $2,000, unexpected
repairs, and she feels stressed rising.

00:43:28.970 --> 00:43:31.370
They have the money, but it wasn't
planned, and it means they're

00:43:31.370 --> 00:43:33.260
gonna have to delay some other
things that they had hoped to do.

00:43:33.905 --> 00:43:36.905
She finds Jack in the kitchen
and she wants to talk to him,

00:43:36.905 --> 00:43:38.345
but she also feels uncomfortable.

00:43:39.005 --> 00:43:40.235
That's perfectly normal.

00:43:41.225 --> 00:43:41.945
So she takes a breath.

00:43:41.975 --> 00:43:45.725
Hey, the mechanic called and the
car needs $2,000 in work, and

00:43:45.725 --> 00:43:47.465
it's so much more than I thought.

00:43:48.215 --> 00:43:50.885
Jack looks up from his laptop
and he notices Jill's face.

00:43:50.885 --> 00:43:54.485
She looks stressed, not panicked,
and he feels his own stress

00:43:54.485 --> 00:43:55.715
response, and it's there.

00:43:55.715 --> 00:43:57.335
He notices it, it could activate.

00:43:57.935 --> 00:44:01.815
His first thought was, okay, we just paid
for a brand new fence, and now this, but

00:44:01.815 --> 00:44:03.915
he catches that before it takes over.

00:44:04.845 --> 00:44:07.905
Okay, so Jack says,
okay, closes his laptop.

00:44:07.905 --> 00:44:09.165
Man, that is frustrating.

00:44:09.205 --> 00:44:11.545
I so appreciate what you're saying.

00:44:11.575 --> 00:44:12.445
Like that is, yeah.

00:44:12.445 --> 00:44:13.885
We don't really have this budgeted, do we?

00:44:14.005 --> 00:44:14.635
What'd they find?

00:44:14.785 --> 00:44:16.735
Jill explains the issue as she talks.

00:44:16.735 --> 00:44:20.875
Jack can feel her tension and he doesn't
try to fix it immediately or dismiss it.

00:44:21.295 --> 00:44:21.955
He listens.

00:44:21.985 --> 00:44:23.095
He maintains eye contact.

00:44:23.095 --> 00:44:23.815
He stays present.

00:44:24.415 --> 00:44:26.365
He actually rises to the challenge.

00:44:26.725 --> 00:44:28.375
This is one of those things
that we don't know, that we

00:44:28.375 --> 00:44:29.605
don't know until you get there.

00:44:30.055 --> 00:44:35.815
When this is the air you breathe, you
want to provide that container, that

00:44:35.815 --> 00:44:40.705
safe space for your partner's emotions,
and it feels somewhat invigorating.

00:44:40.765 --> 00:44:44.755
I want to be this person that can make
space for them to help them feel safe.

00:44:44.935 --> 00:44:49.885
So when she finishes talk and he says That
is a lot that you had to carry with you to

00:44:49.885 --> 00:44:51.835
bring home, I can see why you're stressed.

00:44:52.045 --> 00:44:53.065
Thank you so much.

00:44:53.935 --> 00:44:56.905
Jill Exhales, something
in her body just releases.

00:44:57.655 --> 00:44:59.905
She's been worried that Jack
would be frustrated with her for

00:44:59.905 --> 00:45:02.665
not catching the problem earlier
or that he minimized her stress.

00:45:02.665 --> 00:45:04.615
Instead, he's just there.

00:45:05.215 --> 00:45:06.895
He says, we'll figure it out.

00:45:06.925 --> 00:45:07.765
You know, we will.

00:45:08.365 --> 00:45:10.465
It might mean pushing
back the deck furniture.

00:45:10.525 --> 00:45:13.975
It might mean postponing a vacation a
little bit, but we'll figure it out.

00:45:14.245 --> 00:45:15.355
Let's talk about it later.

00:45:15.445 --> 00:45:17.185
And he doesn't mean kick
the can down the road.

00:45:17.245 --> 00:45:20.515
He just said, why don't we, why don't
we just go grab a bite to eat together?

00:45:21.445 --> 00:45:22.105
Let's connect.

00:45:22.765 --> 00:45:25.585
Let's get right back into this,
our bodies, our relationships,

00:45:25.705 --> 00:45:27.865
and then we will get back to
these emotional things later.

00:45:28.495 --> 00:45:31.925
She said that would be amazing, and
she pauses and says, Hey, I'm so

00:45:31.925 --> 00:45:33.185
sorry I didn't catch this earlier.

00:45:33.695 --> 00:45:35.855
I feel like I should have noticed
something was off with the car.

00:45:35.885 --> 00:45:38.105
And Jack shakes his head,
Hey, you're not a mechanic.

00:45:38.165 --> 00:45:38.855
These things happen.

00:45:39.635 --> 00:45:41.195
Let's just deal with
what's in front of us.

00:45:41.435 --> 00:45:42.245
Things are gonna happen.

00:45:42.365 --> 00:45:43.115
We're gonna figure 'em out.

00:45:43.985 --> 00:45:45.545
That's co-regulation in action.

00:45:45.605 --> 00:45:48.425
He wasn't even doing it because he
needed something or wanted something

00:45:48.425 --> 00:45:51.665
from her, and she didn't even anticipate.

00:45:51.665 --> 00:45:54.245
That later wasn't like, okay,
now what do I have to do?

00:45:55.085 --> 00:45:56.105
Jill came home stressed.

00:45:56.285 --> 00:45:57.065
Jack's calm.

00:45:57.425 --> 00:45:58.205
He was grounded.

00:45:58.505 --> 00:46:00.725
He had a grounded response,
helped her nervous system settle.

00:46:01.325 --> 00:46:05.015
He didn't take on her stress, he didn't
dismiss it, he acknowledged it and

00:46:05.015 --> 00:46:06.575
offered a partnership in solving it.

00:46:07.175 --> 00:46:11.855
After lunch, they sit down with the laptop
and budget and a spreadsheet and numbers

00:46:11.855 --> 00:46:14.915
and math and finances and all those
things that I'm not very comfortable with.

00:46:14.975 --> 00:46:16.355
And Jack pulls up the accounts.

00:46:16.355 --> 00:46:17.555
Jill makes T for both of 'em.

00:46:17.555 --> 00:46:18.935
Okay, Jack says, scanning the numbers.

00:46:19.535 --> 00:46:20.855
Let's dip into the emergency fund.

00:46:20.945 --> 00:46:22.295
All in favor say aye.

00:46:22.625 --> 00:46:25.475
That's, and Jill says, I
hate that we have to do that.

00:46:25.475 --> 00:46:28.385
And he said I mean technically this
is an emergency and we don't want

00:46:28.385 --> 00:46:30.815
to put this on a credit card, so I
think this is what we need to do.

00:46:30.875 --> 00:46:34.395
Jill says, ah, the emergency fund
is getting low, makes me nervous.

00:46:34.395 --> 00:46:35.745
And Jack said, oh man, that makes sense.

00:46:36.345 --> 00:46:39.345
He acknowledges, he doesn't tell her she's
worrying too much, she's being irrational.

00:46:39.405 --> 00:46:40.635
Or, , how do you think that makes me feel?

00:46:40.635 --> 00:46:41.835
Her feeling is information.

00:46:41.835 --> 00:46:42.945
It's not a problem to solve.

00:46:43.545 --> 00:46:45.195
He said, what would help
you feel more comfortable?

00:46:45.615 --> 00:46:48.135
And she said, maybe if we could build it
back up over the next couple of months

00:46:48.135 --> 00:46:51.285
and we could even postpone some of the
other things for even a few more months.

00:46:51.345 --> 00:46:53.985
Jack considers this, his
initial reaction is resistance.

00:46:54.165 --> 00:46:56.205
'cause he really is looking forward
to this one particular trip.

00:46:57.105 --> 00:47:00.075
He had been allocating it there already,
but he recognizes Jill's need for

00:47:00.075 --> 00:47:05.295
financial security and safety is more
important than him going to the Poconos.

00:47:05.925 --> 00:47:09.765
I really don't even know where those
things are, but security's valid

00:47:10.095 --> 00:47:11.355
and her suggestion is reasonable.

00:47:11.385 --> 00:47:15.855
And he says, let's do it, and I'm happy
to wait on some of these other things.

00:47:15.890 --> 00:47:16.515
Are you sure?

00:47:16.515 --> 00:47:18.675
Jill says, I don't want you to feel
like you can't have the things you want.

00:47:18.675 --> 00:47:20.205
He's like, oh, yeah, no, I, I really am.

00:47:20.685 --> 00:47:22.245
And I appreciate, yes,
that really matters.

00:47:22.605 --> 00:47:25.065
They finalize a plan, pay for
the car, repair for the emergency

00:47:25.065 --> 00:47:28.665
fund, rebuild it, assess their
savings goal, buy a second unicorn.

00:47:28.695 --> 00:47:30.615
The whole conversation
doesn't take that long.

00:47:31.035 --> 00:47:31.995
Nobody's voice was raised.

00:47:31.995 --> 00:47:32.805
Nobody shuts down.

00:47:32.835 --> 00:47:33.735
Nobody walks away.

00:47:34.335 --> 00:47:37.575
So what happened there, if we
go back to from a neuroscience

00:47:37.575 --> 00:47:40.665
perspective, is what Dan Siegel
describes as healthy co-regulation.

00:47:40.695 --> 00:47:42.735
When Jill's nervous system
was activated by stress,

00:47:42.785 --> 00:47:46.875
. Jack's regulated nervous system
provided a stabilizing reference point.

00:47:47.325 --> 00:47:50.175
His calm presence didn't
mean dismissing her concern.

00:47:50.205 --> 00:47:54.165
It meant creating enough safety that
she could think clearly about solutions

00:47:54.165 --> 00:47:55.425
instead of spiraling into panic.

00:47:55.425 --> 00:47:58.305
And crucially, this
regulation flows both ways.

00:47:58.605 --> 00:48:01.485
Two weeks later, Jack comes home from
work and he's frustrated and his manager

00:48:01.485 --> 00:48:05.985
gave him feedback on a project that wasn't
very cool and Jack had worked hard on it.

00:48:05.985 --> 00:48:09.345
And while the feedback was
somewhat valid, it stung.

00:48:09.945 --> 00:48:12.775
And there's several things that
attachment research identifies that

00:48:12.775 --> 00:48:14.845
is crucial for secure relationships.

00:48:15.175 --> 00:48:17.725
First, they could repair after conflict.

00:48:17.995 --> 00:48:21.295
Research from John Gottman shows that
successful couples are not conflict

00:48:21.295 --> 00:48:23.065
free, they're skilled at repair.

00:48:23.755 --> 00:48:27.025
Jack could name that they were too
activated at one point and suggest a

00:48:27.025 --> 00:48:28.855
break without it being abandonment.

00:48:28.855 --> 00:48:29.755
And Jill could trust that.

00:48:29.755 --> 00:48:32.605
Let's take a break meant we're
pausing and we will get back to it.

00:48:32.605 --> 00:48:34.225
Not I'm leaving this conversation forever.

00:48:34.900 --> 00:48:37.090
Second, they could take
responsibility for their own parts.

00:48:37.150 --> 00:48:39.520
Neither stayed defensive,
both could apologize for their

00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:41.080
contributions to the escalation.

00:48:41.620 --> 00:48:45.100
There's research from Harriet Lerner that
shows that a genuine apology and then

00:48:45.100 --> 00:48:48.790
taking ownership and accountability are
foundational to healthy relationships.

00:48:49.270 --> 00:48:52.450
And then third, they could help
hold multiple truths simultaneously.

00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:53.890
This is so important.

00:48:54.490 --> 00:48:56.230
Jack's concern about finances was valid.

00:48:56.240 --> 00:48:59.900
Jill's desire in another situation
to help out her mom is valid.

00:48:59.990 --> 00:49:02.600
They didn't have to make one person
wrong and make the other person right.

00:49:03.260 --> 00:49:06.820
This is what, Siegel talks about when he
talks about integration in relationships,

00:49:06.820 --> 00:49:08.560
the ability to honor differentiation.

00:49:08.560 --> 00:49:11.710
We're separate people, but we do
have different perspectives while

00:49:11.710 --> 00:49:14.560
maintaining connection linkage,
we're committed to finding solutions

00:49:14.560 --> 00:49:17.110
together over years of marriage.

00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:21.070
What Jack and Jill have built is
a secure functioning relationship.

00:49:21.490 --> 00:49:24.550
They become each other's primary
go-to person for co-regulation.

00:49:24.700 --> 00:49:26.055
They're not looking for
it outside of the relat.

00:49:27.040 --> 00:49:29.320
When one person's stressed, the
other's nervous system helps

00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:30.550
bring 'em back to baseline.

00:49:30.610 --> 00:49:33.580
And when one person is struggling,
the other provides support without

00:49:33.580 --> 00:49:37.940
fixing or dismissing, it leads
to a less dramatic relationship.

00:49:38.270 --> 00:49:41.240
There's no intense pursuing
or intense withdrawing.

00:49:41.510 --> 00:49:43.820
There's no walking on
eggshells or explosive fights.

00:49:43.820 --> 00:49:44.870
It's not boring.

00:49:44.870 --> 00:49:45.650
They laugh together.

00:49:45.650 --> 00:49:46.880
They enjoy each other's company.

00:49:47.210 --> 00:49:49.190
They have a solid sex life.

00:49:49.190 --> 00:49:50.150
They share adventures.

00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:51.170
It's not chaotic.

00:49:51.170 --> 00:49:53.240
It's steady and steady
to their nervous systems.

00:49:53.240 --> 00:49:58.350
Is safe research shows that secure
relationships have several key

00:49:58.380 --> 00:50:02.250
consistent characteristics that they
both embodied emotional availability.

00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:04.530
Both partners can be present with
each other's feelings without

00:50:04.530 --> 00:50:06.090
becoming overwhelmed or dismissive.

00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:08.100
They have effective communication.

00:50:08.230 --> 00:50:11.530
They can express needs and concerns and
feelings directly, and there's minimal

00:50:11.530 --> 00:50:13.180
guessing or mind reading required.

00:50:13.240 --> 00:50:15.670
When Jill needs more quality
time together, she says, so when

00:50:15.670 --> 00:50:18.610
Jack feels overwhelmed by social
commitments, he says, so conflict

00:50:18.610 --> 00:50:20.200
resolution skills come next.

00:50:20.680 --> 00:50:23.770
That means they can disagree
sometimes even with some big emotions

00:50:23.770 --> 00:50:24.970
and move through it to repair.

00:50:25.420 --> 00:50:27.550
Conflict doesn't threaten the
foundation of the relationship

00:50:27.580 --> 00:50:30.190
according to John Gottman's
research on successful marriages.

00:50:30.460 --> 00:50:33.580
It's not the absence of conflict, but
it's the presence of effective repair

00:50:33.910 --> 00:50:35.590
that predicts relationship satisfaction.

00:50:35.870 --> 00:50:36.860
They had mutual support.

00:50:36.890 --> 00:50:39.470
They celebrate each other's successes,
and they support each other's struggles.

00:50:39.500 --> 00:50:42.830
One person's success does not mean that
the other person is doing anything wrong.

00:50:43.160 --> 00:50:45.560
When Jill gets a promotion,
Jack is genuinely happy for her.

00:50:45.560 --> 00:50:46.280
He's not threatened.

00:50:46.670 --> 00:50:49.430
When Jack's father becomes ill,
Jill makes space for his grief

00:50:49.430 --> 00:50:50.510
without making it about her.

00:50:50.930 --> 00:50:54.050
And that allows them also to
maintain individuality because

00:50:54.080 --> 00:50:57.410
they can have separate friendships,
separate interests, even separate

00:50:57.410 --> 00:50:59.150
time when they wanna take it.

00:50:59.780 --> 00:51:02.030
Jill has a standing monthly
dinner with her college friends.

00:51:02.030 --> 00:51:04.580
Jack plays in a rec basketball
league, and neither feels threatened

00:51:04.580 --> 00:51:05.540
by the other's independence.

00:51:05.540 --> 00:51:07.850
They actually know that it's
good for the other person.

00:51:08.780 --> 00:51:10.730
And then they have physical
and emotional intimacy.

00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:13.740
They maintain physical affection and
sexual connection, but more importantly,

00:51:13.740 --> 00:51:15.240
they maintain emotional intimacy.

00:51:15.660 --> 00:51:18.480
It's this ability to be vulnerable
and to truly be seen and to

00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:19.620
share their inner worlds.

00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:21.900
And they have trust and reliability.

00:51:22.050 --> 00:51:23.460
They do what they say they'll do.

00:51:24.285 --> 00:51:26.115
They acknowledge that these
are things I can't do.

00:51:26.475 --> 00:51:29.625
They show up consistently, and that allows
both of their central nervous systems

00:51:29.625 --> 00:51:33.645
to relax into the relationship instead
of, of staying perpetually vigilant.

00:51:33.705 --> 00:51:36.675
From a, from an interpersonal
neurobiological perspective,

00:51:36.675 --> 00:51:37.485
that's a mouthful.

00:51:37.665 --> 00:51:41.265
They're literally shaping each
other's brains through their

00:51:41.265 --> 00:51:42.795
consistent, attuned interactions.

00:51:42.825 --> 00:51:46.375
Siegel's research shows that repeated
experiences of secure connection

00:51:46.405 --> 00:51:50.485
create neural pathways that reinforce
that capacity for connection.

00:51:51.025 --> 00:51:53.905
The more you do it, the
more you do it each time.

00:51:53.905 --> 00:51:56.215
Jack responds to Jill with
presence instead of withdraw.

00:51:56.215 --> 00:51:58.105
Her brain gets evidence
that connections safe.

00:51:58.105 --> 00:51:58.465
Each time.

00:51:58.465 --> 00:52:00.715
Jill gives Jack space
without pursuing anxiously.

00:52:00.985 --> 00:52:03.385
His brain gets evidence that
autonomy doesn't mean abandonment.

00:52:03.985 --> 00:52:07.465
So over time, even the ways they might
have been slightly less secure when they

00:52:07.465 --> 00:52:09.115
met now have shifted towards security.

00:52:10.075 --> 00:52:12.925
So Jill has become even more confident
in her ability to handle distress

00:52:12.925 --> 00:52:15.625
independently because of Jack's
consistent availability that's

00:52:15.625 --> 00:52:17.395
taught her nervous system that.

00:52:17.785 --> 00:52:19.705
Support if I need it, is reliably there.

00:52:20.155 --> 00:52:23.185
And Jack's become even more comfortable
with emotional closeness because Jill's

00:52:23.185 --> 00:52:26.815
respect for his boundaries has taught
him and his nervous system that intimacy

00:52:26.815 --> 00:52:28.405
does not mean he's gonna lose himself.

00:52:28.795 --> 00:52:30.265
This is neuroplasticity.

00:52:30.265 --> 00:52:31.495
This is the brain changing

00:52:31.885 --> 00:52:36.015
the fixed brain mindset , , is not a
thing your brain can continue to learn.

00:52:36.015 --> 00:52:37.665
You can teach an old dog new tricks.

00:52:38.265 --> 00:52:41.895
Their secure relationship is
literally changing the neural

00:52:42.195 --> 00:52:43.455
architecture in their brains.

00:52:43.485 --> 00:52:46.785
So episode one, episode
two, the critical question.

00:52:46.845 --> 00:52:47.745
What made the difference?

00:52:47.775 --> 00:52:50.655
Why did one version of Jack and Jill
end up in a painful pursuit withdrawal

00:52:50.655 --> 00:52:54.435
cycle, and the other version built
a secure, satisfying relationship?

00:52:55.185 --> 00:52:58.995
The answer lies in childhoods in these
thousands of small interactions that wired

00:52:58.995 --> 00:53:03.105
their nervous systems for either security
or inconsistency in healthy relationships.

00:53:03.105 --> 00:53:07.005
Jack and Jill's parents consistently
provided what attachment theorists call

00:53:07.005 --> 00:53:10.815
a safe haven, a secure base, and when
they were distressed, their parents

00:53:10.815 --> 00:53:12.120
were readily available to help them.

00:53:12.345 --> 00:53:12.915
A safe haven.

00:53:13.815 --> 00:53:16.905
When they wanted to explore or take
risks, their parents supported their

00:53:16.905 --> 00:53:20.235
autonomy while remaining available
if needed, a secure base, a home base

00:53:20.235 --> 00:53:23.045
they could operate from, and they
can go out and explore the world.

00:53:23.975 --> 00:53:25.445
The consistency is crucial.

00:53:25.505 --> 00:53:28.430
Mary Ainsworth, who is the
one that developed the strange

00:53:28.430 --> 00:53:29.900
Situation Assessment of Attachment.

00:53:29.900 --> 00:53:32.690
They did an episode on this quite a
while ago that led to the concepts

00:53:32.690 --> 00:53:35.300
around secure and avoidant and anxious.

00:53:35.900 --> 00:53:38.930
She said, it's not perfection that creates
secure attachment, it's reliability.

00:53:39.290 --> 00:53:41.570
Parents don't have to be
perfectly attuned all the time.

00:53:41.570 --> 00:53:42.740
They don't have to know everything.

00:53:42.770 --> 00:53:44.120
They don't have to always get it right.

00:53:44.930 --> 00:53:49.010
They need to be good enough most of
the time and be willing to work on

00:53:49.010 --> 00:53:52.580
things, acknowledge things, be able
to repair when they miss the mark.

00:53:53.180 --> 00:53:53.630
Healthy.

00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:55.700
Jill's mom wasn't always
immediately available, but

00:53:55.700 --> 00:53:57.290
she was predictably available.

00:53:57.470 --> 00:54:00.470
Healthy Jack's father sometimes
got frustrated, but he came

00:54:00.470 --> 00:54:02.390
back to repair with consistency.

00:54:02.990 --> 00:54:04.520
This teaches the nervous system.

00:54:04.520 --> 00:54:06.650
People are not perfect,
but they're trustworthy.

00:54:06.735 --> 00:54:09.140
Connection might have
bumps, but it doesn't break.

00:54:09.740 --> 00:54:13.130
If you look back at the unhealthy
versions, the unhealthy Jill's mom

00:54:13.130 --> 00:54:16.160
was inconsistent a lot of times,
absent, sometimes engulfing,

00:54:16.190 --> 00:54:18.260
rarely attuned unhealthy.

00:54:18.260 --> 00:54:22.430
Jack's dad was consistently critical and
his mom was consistently unavailable.

00:54:22.850 --> 00:54:23.930
Their nervous systems learn.

00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:25.910
I cannot predict what
I'll get from connection.

00:54:25.910 --> 00:54:26.990
I gotta protect myself.

00:54:27.590 --> 00:54:32.090
John Bowlby, who found Attachment Theory,
describes these internal working models,

00:54:32.445 --> 00:54:36.950
mental representations that we build about
ourselves and others, and relationships

00:54:36.950 --> 00:54:38.540
based on these early experiences.

00:54:39.140 --> 00:54:42.200
These models operate largely
outside of our conscious awareness.

00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:46.100
That's the thing is that this is why we
do the things we do, because we do them.

00:54:46.640 --> 00:54:48.470
When somebody in a relationship
says, why'd you do that?

00:54:48.770 --> 00:54:51.590
My number one go-to answer is,
well, I'll answer because they did.

00:54:51.890 --> 00:54:52.990
But . Maybe we can take a look at.

00:54:52.990 --> 00:54:53.410
Well, why?

00:54:53.770 --> 00:54:55.660
Because it's just the way they did it.

00:54:55.690 --> 00:54:58.120
It's the reaction that they're
having to that moment in life.

00:54:59.050 --> 00:55:00.040
But let's talk about it.

00:55:00.640 --> 00:55:03.540
' cause these things that happen outside
of our conscious awareness, they

00:55:03.540 --> 00:55:07.350
profoundly influence how we interpret
and respond to the relationship

00:55:07.350 --> 00:55:08.550
experiences throughout our life.

00:55:09.550 --> 00:55:14.170
We have to recognize them and
acknowledge them before we can then

00:55:14.350 --> 00:55:16.480
know even what to do moving forward.

00:55:16.930 --> 00:55:17.860
What change looks like.

00:55:18.460 --> 00:55:21.220
Healthy Jill's internal working
model, I am worthy of love.

00:55:21.520 --> 00:55:23.610
Others are , generally
reliable and responsive.

00:55:23.640 --> 00:55:25.400
Relationships are a, a source of support.

00:55:25.910 --> 00:55:29.300
It does not mean that then she's
gonna go find a unhealthy relationship

00:55:29.300 --> 00:55:31.130
because she's whimsical and naive.

00:55:31.730 --> 00:55:34.940
Her nervous system is going to make
sure that if someone is manipulative,

00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:38.930
controlling, or inconsistent, that,
that something feels off in healthy

00:55:38.930 --> 00:55:40.130
Jack's internal working model.

00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:41.480
I'm capable and valued.

00:55:41.630 --> 00:55:43.400
Others can be trusted
with my vulnerability.

00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:45.410
Relationships are safe
and mutually beneficial.

00:55:45.500 --> 00:55:47.030
Unhealthy, Jill's internal working model.

00:55:47.090 --> 00:55:50.600
I am too much or I'm not enough,
depending on the context on the moment.

00:55:51.080 --> 00:55:52.715
Other people, unpredictable,
they might leave.

00:55:53.675 --> 00:55:57.125
Relationships require constant
hypervigilance and performing an

00:55:57.125 --> 00:56:00.845
effort and giving up of myself
in order to maintain unhealthy

00:56:00.845 --> 00:56:02.045
jack's internal working model.

00:56:02.075 --> 00:56:04.505
I am inadequate unless
I'm self-sufficient.

00:56:04.655 --> 00:56:05.885
I can't count on anybody.

00:56:06.545 --> 00:56:09.075
Others are overwhelming
or they're very critical.

00:56:09.075 --> 00:56:12.285
So relationships are actually threatening
to my autonomy and my wellbeing, but

00:56:12.285 --> 00:56:13.575
apparently I'm supposed to be in one.

00:56:14.355 --> 00:56:17.115
These work in models become
self-fulfilling prophecies unhealthy.

00:56:17.115 --> 00:56:20.235
Jill expecting abandonment pursues
intensely, which triggers unhealthy

00:56:20.235 --> 00:56:23.085
Jack's fear of engulfment, which
causes him to withdraw, which

00:56:23.085 --> 00:56:24.675
confirms Jill's fear of abandonment.

00:56:25.275 --> 00:56:25.605
Healthy.

00:56:25.605 --> 00:56:29.025
Jill expecting responsiveness
asks for what she needs directly,

00:56:29.325 --> 00:56:32.925
which healthy Jack can meet, which
confirms Jill's expectation that

00:56:32.925 --> 00:56:34.095
relationships are cooperative.

00:56:34.200 --> 00:56:37.080
, There's a term that's been floating
around quite a while, and I think

00:56:37.110 --> 00:56:41.360
I would predict this is one that
is gonna become the hot new term.

00:56:41.420 --> 00:56:43.010
Let's talk about polyvagal theory.

00:56:43.070 --> 00:56:44.870
This is one of those things
that I would just nod.

00:56:44.900 --> 00:56:46.070
Oh yeah, polyvagal.

00:56:46.190 --> 00:56:48.110
I think I saw those guys
play back in the nineties.

00:56:49.370 --> 00:56:50.180
That's not what it is.

00:56:50.210 --> 00:56:52.970
Polyvagal theory provides another lens
for understanding these differences.

00:56:52.970 --> 00:56:55.220
The vagus nerve, not like Las Vegas.

00:56:55.220 --> 00:56:57.470
V-A-G-U-S has two main branches.

00:56:58.040 --> 00:57:01.920
There's this ventral vagal, which is
associated with social engagement,

00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:04.980
with safety and connection, and
then there's this dorsal vagal

00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:08.010
that's associated with shutdown and
immobilization and disconnection.

00:57:08.610 --> 00:57:09.270
So healthy.

00:57:09.270 --> 00:57:12.720
Jill and Jack, they had childhoods
that predominantly activated

00:57:12.720 --> 00:57:13.860
this ventral vagal system.

00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:15.540
They learned that social
engagement brings safety.

00:57:15.540 --> 00:57:17.190
Their nervous systems develop flexibility.

00:57:17.240 --> 00:57:19.760
They could activate when needed
for challenges, but they could also

00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:21.050
return to calm connected states.

00:57:21.830 --> 00:57:22.250
Unhealthy.

00:57:22.250 --> 00:57:25.250
Jill's nervous system learned to
stay in this sympathetic activation,

00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:28.970
fight or flight manifesting as this
anxious pursuing because connection

00:57:28.970 --> 00:57:32.190
was unpredictable, unhealthy Jack's
nervous system learned to shift

00:57:32.190 --> 00:57:35.160
into this dorsal vagal shutdown
freeze manifest as withdrawal

00:57:35.580 --> 00:57:37.230
because engagement felt dangerous.

00:57:37.410 --> 00:57:41.190
So according to this polyvagal theory,
we unconsciously read safety and danger

00:57:41.190 --> 00:57:43.200
cues from others through neuroception.

00:57:43.290 --> 00:57:45.270
I think that was a
Leonardo DiCaprio movie.

00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:49.290
But Neuroception is a subconscious
detection system, healthy Jill

00:57:49.290 --> 00:57:51.750
and Jackson, and receive cues
of safety from each other.

00:57:52.260 --> 00:57:52.770
Unhealthy.

00:57:52.830 --> 00:57:56.130
Jill and Jackson send and receive cues
of threat from each other, even when

00:57:56.130 --> 00:57:57.630
they're consciously trying to connect.

00:57:58.350 --> 00:58:01.380
So you've got this intergenerational
transmission of attachment.

00:58:01.530 --> 00:58:05.610
There's Research by Mary Maine and a few
others that show that attachment patterns

00:58:06.120 --> 00:58:07.860
tend to transmit across generations.

00:58:07.950 --> 00:58:09.660
But that doesn't mean it's your destiny.

00:58:10.290 --> 00:58:13.230
The key factor isn't whether parents
had secure childhoods themselves,

00:58:13.230 --> 00:58:15.960
but whether they've developed
what main calls earned security.

00:58:16.350 --> 00:58:19.740
That's the ability to coherently
understand their own attachment history,

00:58:19.860 --> 00:58:23.520
which is what we're trying to do here,
and then how it affects 'em healthy.

00:58:23.520 --> 00:58:25.560
Jill's parents likely had
secure attachments themselves

00:58:25.560 --> 00:58:26.340
or they'd done work.

00:58:26.340 --> 00:58:29.460
That's the key to, to heal from insecure
attachments and develop security.

00:58:30.100 --> 00:58:32.300
Unhealthy Jill's parents were
likely still operating from their

00:58:32.300 --> 00:58:33.740
own unhealed attachment wounds.

00:58:34.130 --> 00:58:36.680
Her mom's anxiety might have
stemmed from her own childhood

00:58:36.680 --> 00:58:38.180
neglect, and it creates a cycle.

00:58:38.180 --> 00:58:40.280
Somebody we've gotta break the cycle.

00:58:40.640 --> 00:58:41.930
The same applies to Jack's parents.

00:58:42.110 --> 00:58:46.670
The good news from research attachment
patterns can change, but it takes therapy,

00:58:47.060 --> 00:58:51.530
introspection work, conscious self-work,
corrective relationship experiences,

00:58:52.040 --> 00:58:55.310
uncomfortable things people can move
from insecure to secure attachment.

00:58:55.310 --> 00:58:56.960
This is called earned secure attachment.

00:58:57.190 --> 00:58:59.320
There's research on, it's a little nerdy.

00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:03.790
Restorative mating, partner selection
and attachment, and it shows patterns.

00:59:04.150 --> 00:59:06.850
People tend to partner with others
at similar levels of attachment,

00:59:06.850 --> 00:59:10.000
security, or levels of differentiation
or complimentary insecurities.

00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:13.840
So anxious and avoidant individuals,
they're drawn to each other because

00:59:14.200 --> 00:59:16.090
there's this initial misinterpretation.

00:59:16.090 --> 00:59:20.530
The anxious person sees the avoidant
person's distance as mystery fascination.

00:59:20.530 --> 00:59:24.310
Someone I can connect with a
k, a fix or independence rather

00:59:24.310 --> 00:59:25.450
than actually unavailability.

00:59:25.540 --> 00:59:27.880
And then the avoidant person sees
the anxious person's attention

00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:31.600
as admiration or warmth rather
than anxiety driven pursuit.

00:59:32.410 --> 00:59:35.170
So this creates this
unconscious familiarity.

00:59:35.260 --> 00:59:37.300
Both nervous systems
recognize the dynamic.

00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:41.000
This feels familiar, even if it's
painful, unhealthy, Jill's nervous system

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:42.530
recognized Jack's emotional distance.

00:59:42.530 --> 00:59:45.710
It was her mom's unavailability and
her dad's absence that felt like

00:59:45.710 --> 00:59:47.360
home even though it wasn't safe.

00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:48.950
So there is hope.

00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:52.370
Harville Hendricks, the guy who
founded Imago Theory suggests we

00:59:52.370 --> 00:59:55.100
unconsciously choose partners who
can recreate our childhood wounds

00:59:55.100 --> 00:59:56.150
because we're trying to heal him.

00:59:57.075 --> 00:59:58.065
That is deep.

00:59:58.155 --> 01:00:01.305
That is our nervous system
is trying unhealthy.

01:00:01.305 --> 01:00:05.475
Jill unconsciously hoped if I can get Jack
to stay present and engaged, I'll finally

01:00:05.475 --> 01:00:07.215
heal the wound of my mom's inconsistency.

01:00:08.025 --> 01:00:08.385
Unhealthy.

01:00:08.385 --> 01:00:12.285
Jack unconsciously hopes if I
can be with Jill without being

01:00:12.285 --> 01:00:15.105
overwhelmed, I will finally heal
the wound of my dad's criticism.

01:00:15.705 --> 01:00:18.345
But then let's, let's we're in
the relationship and good old

01:00:18.345 --> 01:00:19.845
confirmation bias comes knocking.

01:00:20.385 --> 01:00:22.965
Once in the relationship, each
person's behavior now confirms

01:00:22.965 --> 01:00:23.865
the other's core beliefs.

01:00:23.895 --> 01:00:28.155
Jill's pursuing confirms Jack's belief
that actually people want too much.

01:00:28.455 --> 01:00:29.205
I know this story.

01:00:29.685 --> 01:00:31.935
And then he withdraws and
Jack's withdraw confirms Jill's

01:00:31.935 --> 01:00:33.525
belief that aha, it is true.

01:00:33.525 --> 01:00:36.195
People always leave, but secure
individuals are drawn toward

01:00:36.195 --> 01:00:38.175
each other because they have
this accurate perception.

01:00:38.175 --> 01:00:41.835
Healthy Jill correctly perceive
Jack's calm as calm, as genuine

01:00:41.835 --> 01:00:43.605
security, not avoidance healthy.

01:00:43.605 --> 01:00:47.205
Jack correctly perceive Jill's warmth as
genuine care, not anxiety driven pursuit.

01:00:47.325 --> 01:00:50.415
And if you're wondering, okay, but
if I'm, if I think I am secure,

01:00:50.475 --> 01:00:52.365
but why am in a insecure pairing?

01:00:53.205 --> 01:00:56.685
The research actually shows that
secure, insecure pairings are very rare.

01:00:57.105 --> 01:00:59.955
When a secure person dates an
insecure person, the mismatch

01:00:59.955 --> 01:01:01.455
usually becomes pretty apparent.

01:01:02.085 --> 01:01:05.625
There's research by a guy named
Jeffrey Simpson, and he says that

01:01:05.865 --> 01:01:08.895
with secure individuals, they detect
insecure partners faster because

01:01:08.895 --> 01:01:11.355
they have clear internal reference
points for what healthy connection

01:01:11.355 --> 01:01:13.305
feels like, and they're less likely.

01:01:13.395 --> 01:01:16.845
This is key to make excuses for
problematic behavior, and they

01:01:16.845 --> 01:01:18.465
exit relationships earlier.

01:01:18.555 --> 01:01:22.335
When they consistently feel dysregulated,
they don't interpret pursuing or

01:01:22.335 --> 01:01:24.195
withdrawing as passion or mystery.

01:01:24.615 --> 01:01:28.005
They recognize it as this is
insecurity and I can't fix it.

01:01:28.065 --> 01:01:28.530
I know I can't.

01:01:29.130 --> 01:01:32.430
And meanwhile, insecure individuals
often then feel really uncomfortable

01:01:32.430 --> 01:01:35.280
with the steadiness that secure
people offer because it doesn't

01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.870
activate their familiar patterns.

01:01:37.290 --> 01:01:41.730
So they'll misinterpret behavior as
boring to available or lacking chemistry

01:01:41.730 --> 01:01:45.420
because it is so unfamiliar, they
unconsciously create drama or they

01:01:45.420 --> 01:01:49.380
test to recreate familiar dynamics,
and then they struggle to trust the

01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:50.910
consistency because it's unfamiliar.

01:01:50.910 --> 01:01:52.110
What's this guy's angle with?

01:01:52.140 --> 01:01:55.140
With him continually saying he wants
to hang out, spend time with me,

01:01:55.140 --> 01:01:56.370
and he's willing to gimme space?

01:01:56.370 --> 01:01:56.940
What's he up to?

01:01:57.750 --> 01:02:00.300
If a secure person stays with
an insecure person long enough?

01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:02.160
Research shows that there
are two possible outcomes.

01:02:02.160 --> 01:02:04.950
The insecure person begins to move
towards security if they're open to it.

01:02:05.130 --> 01:02:06.810
Secure person maintains
healthy boundaries.

01:02:07.470 --> 01:02:10.620
The secure person begins to move
toward insecurity if they sacrifice

01:02:10.620 --> 01:02:14.190
their boundaries and they become
enmeshed in the insecure dynamics.

01:02:14.610 --> 01:02:18.210
But most of the time, these pairings
end before either transformation

01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:21.270
occurs because the secure person
recognizes their relationship isn't

01:02:21.270 --> 01:02:22.530
meeting their needs and they exit.

01:02:22.650 --> 01:02:25.140
So this story does not have to
end with unhealthy Jack and Jill

01:02:25.140 --> 01:02:26.580
trapped in their pattern attachment.

01:02:26.580 --> 01:02:28.770
Research offers hope people can change.

01:02:29.730 --> 01:02:32.730
Mary Main's research on earned security
shows that adults who had insecure

01:02:32.730 --> 01:02:36.150
childhoods can develop secure attachments
through therapeutic relationships.

01:02:36.150 --> 01:02:39.030
A consistent attuned therapist
can provide the co-regulation

01:02:39.030 --> 01:02:40.020
that was missing in childhood.

01:02:40.650 --> 01:02:40.950
That's.

01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:43.410
Part of, there's so many
benefits to therapy.

01:02:43.410 --> 01:02:46.740
I have to say that when somebody is
expressing their emotions and getting the

01:02:46.740 --> 01:02:50.670
scary things outta their head, or the RU
or the loops or the ruminations to someone

01:02:50.670 --> 01:02:52.920
that is not saying, well, I wouldn't
have done that, or, why'd you do that?

01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:56.310
Or, well, here's what I would do, or, that
seems like you could've done that better.

01:02:56.910 --> 01:02:58.080
No, it's like, tell me more.

01:02:58.080 --> 01:02:58.890
Help me understand.

01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:03.510
You are calming that person's anxiety
as they express things to somebody

01:03:03.510 --> 01:03:06.960
that is safe and helps you co-regulate
what was missing in childhood.

01:03:07.710 --> 01:03:11.970
Over time therapy clients can internalize
the therapist's steadiness and they

01:03:11.970 --> 01:03:15.210
can develop their own capacity for
self-regulation and healthy relationships.

01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:20.040
Also, we need to find friendships
that are safe and steady and secure.

01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:23.940
Friendships, mentors, romantic
partners who model secure attachment

01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:25.680
can help rewire insecure patterns.

01:03:26.310 --> 01:03:29.040
That's why some people with insecure
childhoods develop security through

01:03:29.040 --> 01:03:32.130
a long-term secure partnership,
but they have to be open to that

01:03:32.130 --> 01:03:35.644
experience and aware, self-reflection
and integration becomes key.

01:03:36.514 --> 01:03:40.074
It's important to develop what Dan Siegel
calls mine site, the ability to observe

01:03:40.074 --> 01:03:43.764
and understand your own mental processes
that'll help you recognize your patterns

01:03:43.774 --> 01:03:48.354
and help you make conscious choices and
get you out of operating on autopilot.

01:03:48.954 --> 01:03:52.014
And then Mary Mains research emphasizes
this importance of developing

01:03:52.019 --> 01:03:54.849
a coherent narrative about your
childhood and how it affected you.

01:03:55.719 --> 01:03:58.599
When a therapist says, let's talk
about your childhood, it's not

01:03:58.599 --> 01:04:00.519
about having a perfect childhood.

01:04:00.999 --> 01:04:04.239
It's about being able to talk about your
childhood with clarity and acknowledge

01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:08.469
both positive and negative aspects
without minimizing, glorifying, making

01:04:08.469 --> 01:04:10.179
excuses for becoming overwhelmed.

01:04:10.989 --> 01:04:13.389
That's one of the biggest takeaways
I hope you'll get from today, is

01:04:13.389 --> 01:04:17.469
that as you can talk about things
and with someone that can co-regulate

01:04:17.589 --> 01:04:20.019
and it feels calm, it's slowly

01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:21.889
, rewiring your own central nervous system.

01:04:22.009 --> 01:04:26.659
That's part of what helps you become okay
because you realize that I can talk about

01:04:26.659 --> 01:04:30.999
these difficult things with someone, maybe
borrow their regulation system for a while

01:04:31.089 --> 01:04:32.739
and I can then integrate it into mine.

01:04:32.799 --> 01:04:35.889
So imagine unhealthy Jack and Jill
after years of this pursue withdrawal

01:04:35.889 --> 01:04:37.059
cycle, and they hit a crisis point.

01:04:37.059 --> 01:04:38.349
Maybe one of 'em threatens divorce.

01:04:38.439 --> 01:04:41.709
Maybe they sit in couple's therapy
sessions for an extended amount of

01:04:41.709 --> 01:04:44.919
time and the therapist helps 'em
see the pattern for the first time.

01:04:45.849 --> 01:04:48.639
The therapist might help 'em understand
this isn't about who's right and wrong.

01:04:48.879 --> 01:04:51.579
They're each operating from
these old nervous system wirings.

01:04:52.029 --> 01:04:53.829
They're not fundamentally incompatible.

01:04:53.829 --> 01:04:54.909
They're stuck in a dance.

01:04:54.909 --> 01:04:58.329
Their childhood's taught 'em, and
you can learn new steps to the dance,

01:04:58.749 --> 01:05:01.659
but it requires both people to be
willing to look at their own patterns.

01:05:01.959 --> 01:05:04.599
If Jill does her work, she might
learn to notice when her anxiety about

01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:06.069
abandonment is driving her behavior.

01:05:06.195 --> 01:05:06.945
Self-soothe.

01:05:06.945 --> 01:05:11.175
When Jack needs space, rather than
immediately pursue communicator needs

01:05:11.175 --> 01:05:14.415
directly, rather than test whether Jack
will notice these covert contracts.

01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:18.690
Build other sources of co-regulation,
friends, therapy, somatic exercises,

01:05:18.690 --> 01:05:20.430
breathing, yoga, exercise.

01:05:21.240 --> 01:05:23.790
Recognize that her worth isn't
determined by Jack's emotional

01:05:23.790 --> 01:05:25.140
availability in any given moment.

01:05:25.740 --> 01:05:28.710
And if Jack does his work, he might
learn to notice when his shutdown is a

01:05:28.710 --> 01:05:32.820
defense mechanism instead of a genuine
need for space, he can learn to stay

01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:35.885
present with Jill's emotions without
seeing them as overwhelming or threatening

01:05:36.105 --> 01:05:39.690
and communicate when he needs space in
ways that reassure rather than abandon.

01:05:40.110 --> 01:05:43.440
I need an hour to process, but I want to
come back and talk and follow through on

01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:47.640
it and recognize that vulnerability is
not weakness and that Jill's needs, they

01:05:47.640 --> 01:05:51.690
aren't demands, they're not criticisms,
and so they need to practice turning

01:05:51.690 --> 01:05:55.620
toward each other rather than turning
away even when it's uncomfortable

01:05:56.190 --> 01:06:00.840
With time and therapy and conscious
effort, an unhealthy Jack and Jill can

01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.550
slowly shift toward earned security.

01:06:02.970 --> 01:06:06.030
Their nervous systems can gradually
learn that connection can be safe,

01:06:06.330 --> 01:06:07.740
and conflict can be resolved.

01:06:07.980 --> 01:06:11.430
That vulnerability can be met
with care and it doesn't need

01:06:11.430 --> 01:06:13.270
to be criticism or collapse.

01:06:13.810 --> 01:06:16.240
Or giving in or withdraw or attack.

01:06:16.810 --> 01:06:21.260
But the process is not quick and it
is not easy I have maintained that.

01:06:21.260 --> 01:06:24.680
I think it takes a good anywhere
between two to five years to

01:06:24.680 --> 01:06:26.060
change that implicit memory.

01:06:26.090 --> 01:06:29.780
This is my take no research behind
it to change your implicit memory

01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:32.630
or what it feels like to be you,
because that's based off of the slow

01:06:32.630 --> 01:06:33.980
residue of your lived experience.

01:06:34.490 --> 01:06:37.310
And when you throw the acceptance
and commitment therapy lens into

01:06:37.310 --> 01:06:39.530
there of every single moment of
your life is the first time that

01:06:39.530 --> 01:06:40.640
you've ever been in that moment.

01:06:40.850 --> 01:06:41.810
So check that out.

01:06:42.410 --> 01:06:45.260
And your thoughts and feelings and
emotions aren't too much, they're not

01:06:45.560 --> 01:06:47.060
odd, they're not, you're not broken.

01:06:47.060 --> 01:06:49.190
You're a human being going
through life for the first time.

01:06:49.250 --> 01:06:50.060
So check this out.

01:06:50.060 --> 01:06:50.930
This is how I'm feeling.

01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:51.800
This is what I'm thinking.

01:06:51.950 --> 01:06:56.150
And sometimes I forget and
sometimes I take a few steps

01:06:56.150 --> 01:06:57.260
forward and a few steps back.

01:06:57.590 --> 01:06:58.850
Isn't that fascinating?

01:06:59.450 --> 01:07:02.870
' cause the research says it takes years of
consistent effort, but I don't want that.

01:07:03.140 --> 01:07:05.990
Well, you are allowed to have
it feel overwhelming and a

01:07:05.990 --> 01:07:08.060
lot, but make space for that.

01:07:08.180 --> 01:07:10.010
Attachment isn't fixed.

01:07:10.010 --> 01:07:10.490
It's not.

01:07:10.550 --> 01:07:11.720
It's not in concrete.

01:07:12.080 --> 01:07:14.330
It's responsive to ongoing experiences.

01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:16.040
Neuroplasticity is real.

01:07:16.070 --> 01:07:19.040
Dan Siegel's work on interpersonal
neurobiology emphasizes that the

01:07:19.040 --> 01:07:22.090
brain remains plastic throughout
life and not the cheap kind of

01:07:22.090 --> 01:07:24.100
plastic that bad toys are made of.

01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:26.860
New experiences create new neuro pathways.

01:07:26.860 --> 01:07:29.205
Repeated experiences
strengthen those pathways.

01:07:29.665 --> 01:07:33.730
For better or worse, if unhealthy, Jack
and Jill commit to changing their pattern.

01:07:33.730 --> 01:07:36.910
Every instance of Jill's self-soothing
instead of pursuing strengthens her

01:07:36.910 --> 01:07:38.590
brain's capacity for self-regulation.

01:07:38.620 --> 01:07:42.400
And every instance of Jack staying present
instead of withdrawing strengthens his

01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:44.170
brain's capacity for emotional intimacy.

01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:48.550
And slowly, with enough repetition and
coming back to it and acknowledging and

01:07:48.550 --> 01:07:52.420
taking ownership and giving yourself
grace and your partner, these new patterns

01:07:52.420 --> 01:07:54.190
become as automatic as the old ones were.

01:07:54.850 --> 01:07:56.770
This is the promise of neuroplasticity.

01:07:56.800 --> 01:07:59.110
We're not doomed to repeat our
childhood patterns forever.

01:07:59.410 --> 01:08:04.240
We can create new ones through conscious,
repeated effort, but it's important and

01:08:04.240 --> 01:08:05.945
ideal when both partners can participate.

01:08:06.910 --> 01:08:10.480
For couples work to succeed in moving from
insecurity to security, both partners need

01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:11.980
to be willing to do their individual work.

01:08:12.640 --> 01:08:16.000
If one is not, then you still
get to do your individual work,

01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:17.440
I promise that will help you.

01:08:18.070 --> 01:08:21.580
One person can't heal the relationship
alone, but they can figure

01:08:21.580 --> 01:08:23.380
themselves out in the relationship.

01:08:23.770 --> 01:08:26.620
If only Jill does therapy and Jack
refuses to look at his patterns,

01:08:26.620 --> 01:08:27.970
Jill might develop more security.

01:08:28.510 --> 01:08:33.400
She's also likely to eventually see
the relationship as not healthy because

01:08:33.400 --> 01:08:34.930
it no longer fits who she's becoming.

01:08:35.530 --> 01:08:39.610
If only Jack does the therapy and Jill
continues to anxiously pursue, Jack

01:08:39.610 --> 01:08:42.070
might develop better boundaries, but
the relationship will still feel like

01:08:42.070 --> 01:08:43.720
a source of stress rather than support.

01:08:44.320 --> 01:08:47.380
The research is pretty clear that
relationship transformation requires

01:08:47.380 --> 01:08:50.530
both people to engage in their own
growth while simultaneously working

01:08:50.530 --> 01:08:51.790
on the relationship dynamics.

01:08:52.660 --> 01:08:53.475
So let's wrap this thing up.

01:08:54.075 --> 01:08:57.105
These stories of the two versions of
Jack and Jill illustrate a central

01:08:57.105 --> 01:09:01.630
truth from an attachment research and
an interpersonal neurobiological lens.

01:09:01.660 --> 01:09:05.050
Our early experiences shape, but they
don't determine our relationship patterns.

01:09:05.560 --> 01:09:09.100
The unhealthy version shows how childhood
insecurities can create painful adult

01:09:09.100 --> 01:09:12.490
dynamics, not because anybody was
bad or wrong, but because nervous

01:09:12.490 --> 01:09:16.600
systems wired for self-protection will
continue to protect themselves in ways

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:19.720
that worked in childhood, but they
damage relationships in adulthood.

01:09:20.230 --> 01:09:23.440
The healthy version shows how childhood
security creates adult relationships that

01:09:23.440 --> 01:09:27.100
feel nourishing instead of depleting,
not because anybody's perfect and nobody

01:09:27.100 --> 01:09:30.160
has problems, but our nervous systems
are wired for connection and we can

01:09:30.160 --> 01:09:32.950
continue to seek and create healthy
connection and we figure things out

01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:37.360
and then this possibility of earned
security shows that change is possible.

01:09:37.780 --> 01:09:41.440
But it's, it's not easy and it's
not quick, but it is worth it.

01:09:42.040 --> 01:09:44.320
The mind is both embodied and relational.

01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:47.470
We are shaped by our relationships
and we shape our relationships.

01:09:47.980 --> 01:09:50.740
This is both a challenge and it's
an opportunity if relationships

01:09:50.740 --> 01:09:52.120
can wire us for insecurity.

01:09:52.150 --> 01:09:54.280
Relationships can also
rewire us for security.

01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:57.940
The key is awareness and willingness
and time, and becoming conscious of

01:09:57.940 --> 01:10:01.120
our patterns and being willing to do
the uncomfortable work of changing them

01:10:01.240 --> 01:10:05.500
and giving ourselves the time needed
for our new neural pathways to form.

01:10:05.800 --> 01:10:08.890
Whether we're talking about Jack
and Jill or any couple or our own

01:10:08.890 --> 01:10:11.110
relationships, the invitation's the same.

01:10:11.620 --> 01:10:15.190
To recognize that how we show up in
our relationships comes from somewhere,

01:10:15.700 --> 01:10:19.530
and to have compassion for the wounds
that created our patterns, and to

01:10:19.530 --> 01:10:22.470
courageously choose growth, even
when our nervous systems are telling

01:10:22.470 --> 01:10:24.180
us, stick with the familiar 'cause.

01:10:24.210 --> 01:10:26.760
Ultimately, that's what
attachment security offers.

01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:30.450
Not a life without struggle or conflict,
but a life where connection can be

01:10:30.450 --> 01:10:33.870
a resource for navigating struggle
instead of a source of additional pain.

01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:37.320
And that difference between
relationships that drain us and

01:10:37.320 --> 01:10:40.610
the relationships that sustain us
and allow us to grow and thrive.

01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:45.080
That is shaped in a large part by this
neural wiring that's built through

01:10:45.080 --> 01:10:48.680
thousands of small moments starting
in childhood, but also continuing

01:10:49.220 --> 01:10:50.450
throughout the rest of your life.

01:10:51.050 --> 01:10:55.800
You've got this, this is a big step to be
so aware and if you need to look for help

01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:58.390
now, do it and start working on things.

01:10:58.390 --> 01:11:00.100
Give me your questions, send them in.

01:11:00.400 --> 01:11:05.240
I'll do a question and answer episode or
two or 10 because this is so important.

01:11:05.510 --> 01:11:06.800
If you need help, find it.

01:11:06.950 --> 01:11:09.590
Taking us out per usual, the wonderful,
the talented Aurora Florence with

01:11:09.590 --> 01:11:12.260
her song, it's wonderful because
I hope I'm selling it to you.

01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:13.220
Life can be wonderful.

01:11:13.340 --> 01:11:14.210
It does take a little bit of work.

01:11:15.020 --> 01:11:15.590
Have a great week.

01:11:15.650 --> 01:11:17.060
We'll see you next time
on the virtual couch.