WEBVTT

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Okay. It's going. Is it going? We're horrible marketers. Is that fair?

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We're not. I wouldn't say we're horrible marketers. Well, I thought you said

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we're horrible markers.

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Markers, maybe. We're not markers. If there was anything, and this would be,

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oh, let me clean my glasses with this thing that you can buy on the store.

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But I don't know if you can, quite frankly. But it is kind of an amazing gadget.

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But you don't wear glasses.

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Tony wouldn't know because he doesn't look at any of the people that are trying

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to brand with that. What is it called?

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Collab. That's what the kids say. My bad. Yeah. Hey, thank you.

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For those who have reached out and have wanted to partner with us,

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Sydney looked at the messages a couple nights ago, and apparently you should

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probably look at them more than every couple months. We're going to look at those. But welcome.

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I am your friendly marriage and family therapist, and I am here with my wonderful

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daughter, Sydney. I lost my phone. Okay.

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You took it out with you when you went outside to the car. Oh,

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are you going to go check it out? No.

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Okay. It's weird. Okay. I say, cause that's, is that weird? That was like the

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first time you ever lost your phone. Was that, was that an odd experience?

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Yeah. That was like really unlike me. How many times a day do you think you lose your phone?

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I've never, I just don't ever know where it is ever. Yeah. That.

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And then honestly, what's your, what percentage power are you on? 82 actually.

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So doing big things. Okay. All right. That's fine. You know,

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it's funny. And I don't think that I have, I can say I can diagnose myself as

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a mental health professional.

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I know that I do not have OCD, but people will sometimes show me screenshots

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of texts when they're having arguments with their spouse or partner.

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And then I will immediately focus on, okay, why don't you keep your phone charged

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more than 5%? Because what if there's an emergency?

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Because I will see that often. So it's not just you, Sid.

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No, I'm saying when somebody shares their phone with me or they send me screenshots

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and they're saying, hey, I want to talk about this this week in therapy.

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Can you look at this exchange that I had with my spouse? And then the first

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thing I go to is, what percentage is their battery?

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And I don't know. I don't know if I'm making judgments. I mean,

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I can't. I am probably making judgments. You're judging me because I don't charge

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my phone? I know. I'm used to you not charging your phone.

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That means nothing. There's no judgment. So we are here to answer your mental health questions.

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I am not your therapist, but I would love to hear what you have going on.

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And I would love to expound on that, offer some general advice.

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But again, I'm not your therapist. I hope that you will all go find a wonderful

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therapist that you connect with.

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And I have something to open tonight with today. This is the afternoon.

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We're trying this on a Saturday afternoon and we're normally doing this at night

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and this might be the first daytime that we've ever done.

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Did you talk to me? Yeah. What? Oh, I just said this might be the first time

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we've done this in the day. Yeah, I think so. I'm kind of excited.

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And for anybody who is new, I am a marriage and family therapist.

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I've been doing couples therapy for almost 20 years, and I actually very much

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enjoy couples therapy. So I'd love your questions if you are in a relationship.

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It doesn't have to be married. Long-time relationship, new relationship.

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Also, we can talk about general mental health. I, as well as my daughter Sydney,

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are card carry members of the ADHD fan club. So we can address things about ADHD.

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And I also work a lot in the world of narcissistic traits and tendencies and

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emotionally immature behaviors.

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Also, faith journey, faith deconstruction, faith crisis.

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So, we'd love to have your questions. Sydney's going to be manning the questions.

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I think I'll bring them up here.

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Womaning, personing the questions. That's kind of funny. Do you take offense

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to those kind of things, Syd?

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Sometimes, when I'm just feeling like having fun. Okay.

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So, I wonder though, So I wonder if Manning even has an origin story of a guy

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doing it or if it is just a word.

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I don't know. Yeah. And I am not going to Google it. But I have something that

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I think I can start off with tonight that is our muse.

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And I don't think I talked about this a few nights ago. And if I did,

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I'm imagining maybe you had forgotten anyway. That's not meant. Whoa.

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Do we talk about the Dartmouth SCAR study? No. Okay. I don't know. Okay.

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I've got a podcast coming out on the virtual couch this week.

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It's the one that you have told me. And it was great advice.

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Do not go and rerecord, old man.

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Just go with what brought you here. But I started off with, this is really,

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really interesting. So I would love your thoughts on this.

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So in 1980, there was a psychologist and he conducted an experiment at Dartmouth College.

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And students were told that they were participating in a study about how people

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with facial scars were treated in their social interactions, their everyday lives.

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The researchers brought in a professional makeup artist and they gave them a

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really big graphic scar on their face. Harry Potter.

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That's the first thing I think of too. I can't lie. I really can't. That's funny.

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And i but this was in 1980 before harry potter so no one probably had the lightning

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bolt scar also pause yeah anyone who's listening did i put a filter on him on

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accident what do i look like like you're from the olden days okay i don't know

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how i feel you're just old no i'm just kidding i don't know how i feel about

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this i feel like you look like dark here look at my phone okay,

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doesn't that look weird.

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But i look normal you can't tell oh no now i

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do oh yeah okay wait i've even got the back camera hannah

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what's hey hannah okay why why

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do i look like uh i don't

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really know okay here you go so i don't

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either i could like fix up like before

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it goes on youtube but i don't it's okay i don't know how i

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did you know what people don't come to see me to stare.

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At a model looking therapist they come for

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the advice is that that's where

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you're supposed to go oh my gosh no you look great no you look

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beautiful tony oh thanks don't worry i look great

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right here yeah you do well i was gonna say that too and i was like

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okay i don't want to sound creepy or anything okay and i'm gonna

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pull up here as well i want to be able to see what

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people say as well so we're gonna do that okay but

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this is a scar study though said so this professional makeup artist puts a

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scar on somebody's face and it's a very dramatic scar and

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then what they're told is that they're going to go interact with people

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and they're going to report back of what it felt like

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to have people judge and discriminate them so much because

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of this big scar so you following okay now

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here's where it gets very interesting the makeup artist then right before

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the people went out then the makeup artist said hey i need

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to put some setting powder is that still a thing yes okay

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so i'm gonna put some setting powder to make sure the scar looks realistic so it

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won't smudge when you're interacting with people what the participants did

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not know is that the touch-up artist then removed the scar entirely but

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then the people didn't know that so they went out into the

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world and they thought they had a big old scar and so

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then they're interacting with people believing they had this visible facial

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scar when in reality they looked completely normal to everybody encountered

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how did they not like pass by a window i know and i think the same thing sorry

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i'm really annoying with this kind of stuff but i thought the same thing my

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first thought was jokes then my next thought was like okay setting powder versus

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wiping a complete scar off my face but that is not the point, Sid.

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And what do you want to see it? That'd be cool. I would want to see what I look

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like. But they did. And then they're like, oh, hang on, a little touch up powder.

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And then that's where I don't know setting powder. Does it feel like somebody's

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wiping a complete washcloth across your face?

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But that is not the point of the story, Sid. Okay.

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Okay. But so the people that they believe they had these scars,

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they reported that they were treated incredibly differently because they perceived

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stares and awkward interactions.

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And they interpreted that as being discriminated because of these facial scars.

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They felt judged and marginalized. And they felt like they were responded to

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that it was clear evidence that people discriminated against them

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because of the scar but there wasn't a scar your perception

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is your reality absolutely yeah and it's just

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a trip so where i went with that with this podcast is that

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our beliefs about ourselves and our circumstances are so

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powerful that they will shape our reality and you can even look at this all

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the way down to the way that we talk to ourself and this is why i think i don't

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know in our home i often when somebody's saying i'm so dumb or and i'm saying

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that is not very helpful let's go check this out this is what I'm thinking versus

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don't say that about my friend that's right okay exactly oh wait did somebody

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send something in the comments or are you talking to me.

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What? No. Okay. But if you think about this, they weren't people who were lying to make things up.

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They were experiencing their reality through this lens where they thought people were judging them.

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I think it requires you to be kind to yourself and the way you think about yourself.

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And it's funny because what you said, I jotted that down in my outline of the cliche,

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your perception is your reality, even if it's to your detriment,

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or if it's to the detriment of a loved one or a relationship or an ideology

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or a belief system or religion, because we're so hardwired to create meaning,

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which I think that's pretty fascinating.

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And we want to know, we want certainty, we got to create meaning and we want

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to avoid uncomfortable things.

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So you can see how powerful the mind

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can be in just creating all kinds of narratives to make us feel better.

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And so then the rest of the podcast goes about talking about how that's why

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I think it's so hard to change people's beliefs.

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And I know that we can make the argument of, well, I should not necessarily

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be trying to change someone else's beliefs. But what if their beliefs are kind

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of silly? But I mean, who's to say that their beliefs are silly?

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I feel like you just have to live as your most authentic self.

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And then anyone who is ready to change when they see that, they'll change.

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You know what I mean? And I think that is the goal.

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The thing that's interesting is when you say that, though, my first thought

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goes to what if you're in a relationship or friendship with people who are unwilling

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to think critically or even admit the fact that they may not be correct in what they're experiencing?

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And that might sound like, well, why do they need to know that it's incorrect?

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But what if what they are doing or saying is affecting or harming other people?

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Yeah. It's like that thing where people can only meet you as far as they are.

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Yeah. So, you know? Yeah. Wait, do I just swipe?

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Oh. No.

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I was going to say, if there's somebody that knows, then maybe they can...

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Should I just end it and start it again really quick?

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I don't know. I think we're good. Well, what do you think? I think that we're

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going to end it and start it again really quick. Really?

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Okay. So, will people come right back? I'm going to make you move back really

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mad. Okay. Yeah, don't... Right back.

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Okay, profile. Now, why is Jesus over here? Wait, what do you mean? Don't worry about it.

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Wait, what are you seeing? It's fine. It's not you. It's me.

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I don't know. Okay. I'm just going to, it's not that bad.

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Do I look different though? No, you look fine. Okay. You're very kind.

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I hope that people that come back that we're here because we had a couple of good questions.

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There was a guy named Horatio that had asked a question about needing a license.

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Oh, okay. The camera just twisted a little bit. Wait, whoa. It's like,

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I'm getting seasick a little. What are you talking? I just adjusted it. Okay.

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What I'm watching here, it's behind the time. It's behind the times.

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Okay. And let me just, let me tell your mom.

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That sounds like a funny cut, right? that we started so come on i was texting

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your mom right now too you were oh oh wow i love you wow.

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Okay that that you know it's fun though you're the first person that's done

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one of those jokes that i could hit you with that i'm ashamed okay hey everybody

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um i'll just i'll just leave no Oh, that was,

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so there's not a lot of people here right now, but yeah, my mom passed away

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about a week and a half ago.

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So Sydney just made your mom joke.

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It's pretty good though. No, that's like the first, I mean, it was nice.

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There we go. Okay. Xavier says licensed therapist, author, speaker, and podcast host.

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Right before we had to end so that we could get better lighting,

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I think Xavier had said, do you need a license for those things?

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So licensed therapist. Yes. So I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist.

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You don't need a license for any other things. Author, write a book,

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speaker, find somebody who will say, come talk to me.

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And then podcast host. As I think we all well know, anybody can start a podcast

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for better or worse. And anybody will.

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Anybody, anybody can do that. You shouldn't. Yeah. But the licensing process

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to be a therapist was a get your bachelor's degree, get your master's degree,

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do 3000 hours of clinical work under a licensed clinical supervisor,

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take a couple licensing exams and then you

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get to sit with people and hear the most amazing stories in

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the world but you don't tell people what to do which is one of

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the number one assumptions that people make you got to try to get

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people to figure out what they want to do and help them figure out

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how to do it oh i was being semantic okay i'm gonna see that is good okay all

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right i do i do appreciate that that was good but look at me being very what

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was i being very literal that's what i was being yeah okay so we were talking

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about the dartmouth scar study and we could pick it up and pretend like nobody

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was listening the first time.

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I wasn't exactly well okay so

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tell me said this is where we're at so for anyone jumping on i will

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be so quick with this but the dartmouth scar study is

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a study that happened back in 1980 where people

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were given by a professional makeup artist dramatic scar

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on their face insert harry potter comment from

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last time kind of like it's groundhog day like harry potter there

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we go and then i say oh but it was 1980 that was before harry potter

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and then i think maybe you would make a joke about

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I don't know something about 1980 which I was I

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was 11 at the time anyway so

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the people have a big dramatic scar on their face they're going

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to go out interact with the world and it was to figure out how people treated

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them how people maybe discriminated or judged and then right before they left

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the makeup artist said let me put some setting powder on and then wipe the scar

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off completely and then the people went out and thought they had the scar on

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their face and then they reported back how they felt so judged.

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And that is just a fascinating study that says that the cliche that your perception

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is your reality truly is your reality.

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So, it takes a lot of work for somebody to, I don't know, have the courage or

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knowledge or the ability to

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self-confront or look critically at the things that they take for granted.

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Because if you don't, then you tend to then look for only things that align

00:13:33.363 --> 00:13:34.883
with what you think and how you believe.

00:13:35.143 --> 00:13:37.983
And then you end up in a little echo chamber and you find small groups

00:13:37.983 --> 00:13:42.103
of friends and before you know it you are a member of QAnon oh right

00:13:42.103 --> 00:13:45.963
yeah it doesn't have to go there it doesn't I was thinking about this and I

00:13:45.963 --> 00:13:48.783
started talking about this on the podcast that I recorded that started with

00:13:48.783 --> 00:13:53.063
the Dartmouth Scar Study and I had a person that was that was pretty deep into

00:13:53.063 --> 00:13:57.983
QAnon that is out now and then if I ever tell a story I'm changing the details

00:13:57.983 --> 00:14:01.263
I am a professional therapist who values confidentiality.

00:14:01.543 --> 00:14:05.543
But are you familiar with how that worked, Sid?

00:14:05.823 --> 00:14:09.343
No. So, here's what was interesting. So, let's pretend that there's like a leader.

00:14:09.523 --> 00:14:12.263
Let's say a president that isn't consistent with their message.

00:14:12.403 --> 00:14:15.083
We might even say they're not telling the truth about things, hypothetically.

00:14:15.423 --> 00:14:18.283
So, they go in one town and they say, I don't know, let's just say that I like

00:14:18.283 --> 00:14:21.383
dogs. And then they go in the next town and they say, I hate dogs.

00:14:21.783 --> 00:14:25.043
So, instead of people going, hey, this guy doesn't tell the truth,

00:14:25.383 --> 00:14:27.623
people were like, so he obviously tells the truth.

00:14:28.023 --> 00:14:31.583
So what's the message he's trying to say? So then he goes into the third town

00:14:31.583 --> 00:14:36.943
and he says, as a matter of fact, third time, he says, I actually very much enjoy donkeys.

00:14:37.508 --> 00:14:40.168
And then people are like and he says i've never liked dogs and

00:14:40.168 --> 00:14:43.168
i've never even said that i like dogs so then people are saying i mean

00:14:43.168 --> 00:14:46.848
we can literally review the tape and he said these things but he must be trying

00:14:46.848 --> 00:14:50.648
to send us a message and what's fascinating about that is we all have this desire

00:14:50.648 --> 00:14:54.588
to be part of a community wait the message is that he's lying though i believe

00:14:54.588 --> 00:14:57.968
so as well and that's why this is so fascinating though because you've got somebody

00:14:57.968 --> 00:15:02.068
that if they don't if they're unwilling to look at the fact that that is happening

00:15:02.068 --> 00:15:02.968
they're trying to create.

00:15:03.508 --> 00:15:05.608
Meaning off of the inconsistency.

00:15:05.868 --> 00:15:11.448
It's like they put so much power in one person that they ignore all of the power in themselves.

00:15:11.648 --> 00:15:15.468
That's literally just common sense that they are lying. It's not deeper than that.

00:15:15.888 --> 00:15:19.108
Absolutely. Okay. Look at Rebecca, my favorite therapist. Rebecca,

00:15:19.388 --> 00:15:23.628
my favorite TikTok person who was talking about their favorite therapist. Thank you.

00:15:24.148 --> 00:15:27.948
But Sid, I really, I like that you're digging on this and that is not me saying

00:15:27.948 --> 00:15:29.788
that what they are doing is wrong,

00:15:29.908 --> 00:15:34.208
but it does go into that thing where I find it not very helpful because then

00:15:34.208 --> 00:15:38.068
you get, let's say this person now has told over a couple of years,

00:15:38.368 --> 00:15:39.668
hundreds, if not thousands of lies.

00:15:39.968 --> 00:15:43.888
Then this person who was formerly QAnon that I worked with as a client,

00:15:44.068 --> 00:15:47.688
then they said that they would spend hours and hours trying to figure out the

00:15:47.688 --> 00:15:51.888
pattern of what everyone, a lot of other people viewed as just lies.

00:15:52.068 --> 00:15:54.848
And then they created a community or a forum and it was like,

00:15:54.928 --> 00:15:57.948
okay, who has the best ability to put these pieces together?

00:15:57.948 --> 00:16:00.668
And then which one feels like it. It's right. Because again,

00:16:00.728 --> 00:16:01.508
we don't want to feel uncomfortable.

00:16:02.048 --> 00:16:06.308
So, discomfort is really, really bad. So, we want to figure out a way to make us feel comfortable.

00:16:06.628 --> 00:16:11.928
So, then we try to create narratives about these inconsistencies over time and then say, okay.

00:16:12.168 --> 00:16:14.648
And then it makes everybody else in the group feel better.

00:16:15.068 --> 00:16:19.348
So, he said that he was so deep in it. And I finally said, what is it that kind of shook you?

00:16:19.468 --> 00:16:23.748
And this is what I think is kind of fascinating is there might be one thing.

00:16:23.988 --> 00:16:29.428
I think the person that was in the position of power finally told a lie about

00:16:29.428 --> 00:16:32.288
something about that had to do with something that his grandfather had been

00:16:32.288 --> 00:16:35.528
involved in, which he knew. He knew that was not the case. So,

00:16:35.568 --> 00:16:36.148
at that point, he was like.

00:16:36.698 --> 00:16:40.798
Wait a minute. I actually know that that's not true. So, is there a chance that

00:16:40.798 --> 00:16:44.178
the two years and thousands of other things aren't true as well?

00:16:44.298 --> 00:16:47.338
And then as you went and undid those things, then it all fell apart.

00:16:47.858 --> 00:16:50.478
And you find out that that's what happens a lot of times when people do like

00:16:50.478 --> 00:16:53.098
a faith deconstruction. So, let's say that, what are you thinking of that?

00:16:53.338 --> 00:16:58.178
This is so like on brand with like how religion like took over like all of the

00:16:58.178 --> 00:17:01.318
stuff before it, like just took their stories and changed it.

00:17:01.538 --> 00:17:04.278
Yeah. Yeah. And feel free to jump in and talk about that because I do a lot

00:17:04.278 --> 00:17:07.078
with people who are struggling with their faith. their faith community.

00:17:07.338 --> 00:17:10.318
And again, it starts from the place of that we all want to feel a sense of community

00:17:10.318 --> 00:17:14.798
and we want to find people that have shared experiences. We want rites of passage

00:17:14.798 --> 00:17:18.678
and social capital and rituals because those all make us feel better about ourselves

00:17:18.678 --> 00:17:20.618
and feel like we belong to a community.

00:17:20.858 --> 00:17:24.138
But one of the problems is if you're in the community, you don't want to be

00:17:24.138 --> 00:17:27.278
booted out of the community. So, a lot of times you will then overlook things

00:17:27.278 --> 00:17:30.998
that maybe are uncomfortable because of that fear that you'll get booted out.

00:17:31.178 --> 00:17:33.718
And a lot of times when I work with people that are in, let's say,

00:17:33.798 --> 00:17:38.618
a high demand religion that is not a fan of, let's say, alternative lifestyles,

00:17:38.738 --> 00:17:42.018
homosexuality, and then they have someone in their family, like a kid that comes

00:17:42.018 --> 00:17:45.818
out as gay, that's sometimes the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

00:17:45.938 --> 00:17:49.438
And all of a sudden, I sometimes joke, that comes with a free faith crisis.

00:17:49.958 --> 00:17:54.418
It sucks that that has to happen. Something has to affect you directly for you

00:17:54.418 --> 00:17:58.078
to feel empathy about another group of people, though. Can we all just be nice?

00:17:58.318 --> 00:18:01.398
Okay. Well, and I'm glad that we're going here because now you

00:18:01.398 --> 00:18:04.318
go back and it goes back to that thing where like okay

00:18:04.318 --> 00:18:07.138
xavier which i was a lot of people yeah and so thank you like xavier

00:18:07.138 --> 00:18:10.258
i'm digging your vibe here tonight how do you or this afternoon how do

00:18:10.258 --> 00:18:12.918
you confront beliefs that you know are rational but will impact your behavior i might

00:18:12.918 --> 00:18:16.178
even if you're okay if i add to that or will impact your social standing

00:18:16.178 --> 00:18:19.478
or will impact your place in the community because

00:18:19.478 --> 00:18:22.138
i will have people that will be in in positions of power let's say with a

00:18:22.138 --> 00:18:25.098
high demand religion and then they have a faith journey or a faith crisis

00:18:25.098 --> 00:18:28.138
but their business or their sometimes even their retirement

00:18:28.138 --> 00:18:35.178
or their role in the family is so set or it is where it is because of where

00:18:35.178 --> 00:18:39.278
they sit in a standing with this community that then they don't want to confront

00:18:39.278 --> 00:18:44.438
beliefs that they now feel are irrational because of the fear of what they will

00:18:44.438 --> 00:18:47.818
be viewed as in their community. So back to how do you...

00:18:48.545 --> 00:18:51.805
I really believe that we go from a place of we didn't know what we didn't know.

00:18:52.145 --> 00:18:56.365
That so many of us, I mean, I know I'm walking around not knowing so many things.

00:18:56.565 --> 00:19:00.445
We're all stupid. Right? Let's start there from a place of good old humility.

00:19:00.745 --> 00:19:04.285
Because if somebody doesn't have at least that much awareness that there obviously

00:19:04.285 --> 00:19:07.785
are things I don't know, then they're not actually being, they're not looking

00:19:07.785 --> 00:19:12.965
for things that they may want to do a little more critical thought on or examining.

00:19:13.165 --> 00:19:16.185
So you don't know what you don't know. The next step that happens is you know.

00:19:16.185 --> 00:19:20.025
Now, you know, or you're starting to think about something, but you don't even know what to do about it.

00:19:20.125 --> 00:19:24.425
That's where we spend most of the time when you're on this path of change.

00:19:25.085 --> 00:19:28.545
And the unfortunate part there is that is where you can imagine things feel

00:19:28.545 --> 00:19:30.885
pretty uncomfortable because all of a sudden my world is different.

00:19:31.085 --> 00:19:33.505
All of a sudden, these things that I just took for granted or I thought were

00:19:33.505 --> 00:19:37.865
just absolute truths now may not be. And what would that feel like? Super uncomfortable.

00:19:38.185 --> 00:19:42.325
And again, Sid, if you've had experiences like that yourself or feel free to.

00:19:42.525 --> 00:19:45.885
Yes, I have. Yeah. And so, then what happens is, well, I don't like feeling

00:19:45.885 --> 00:19:49.025
uncomfortable, so now I need to go back into my community, my people,

00:19:49.185 --> 00:19:52.745
my faith, and I need to find things that will make me feel better.

00:19:52.865 --> 00:19:57.825
Yeah. This is for me when I left the church. It was like, I had inadvertently

00:19:57.825 --> 00:20:03.285
put my entire identity, my self-worth, my life meaning, everything that it meant

00:20:03.285 --> 00:20:06.985
to be me, every atom in my body was as a part of that church.

00:20:07.165 --> 00:20:12.425
And so, leaving it was literally terrifying and horrifying.

00:20:12.425 --> 00:20:16.565
Satisfying really that like discomfort turned

00:20:16.565 --> 00:20:19.725
out to be so much better than the

00:20:19.725 --> 00:20:22.965
comfort that i thought i'd been feeling in the church yeah

00:20:22.965 --> 00:20:25.705
because you don't know what you don't know and

00:20:25.705 --> 00:20:28.665
when you actually start to feel good you realize maybe you

00:20:28.665 --> 00:20:31.445
were feeling really bad for a long time you know and trying to tell

00:20:31.445 --> 00:20:34.265
yourself no no i'm good yeah you know i call that one the right guys

00:20:34.265 --> 00:20:37.145
like you're looking by you're right better like maybe that's how it's supposed to be

00:20:37.145 --> 00:20:39.945
yeah no you're supposed to be happy and you're supposed to be in charge of your

00:20:39.945 --> 00:20:43.385
own life well and i think one of One of those universal principles that we don't

00:20:43.385 --> 00:20:47.345
know until we know is that growth comes from discomfort and so we often are

00:20:47.345 --> 00:20:51.445
so afraid of the unknown or what might feel uncomfortable that then we will

00:20:51.445 --> 00:20:54.545
revert back to behaviors that are no longer.

00:20:55.306 --> 00:20:59.486
They no longer are in alignment with who we are, but we're just,

00:20:59.586 --> 00:21:00.506
we don't know what else to do.

00:21:00.606 --> 00:21:03.486
And so, what you'll often find is almost like this rebound effect where,

00:21:03.986 --> 00:21:06.126
all right, now somebody has new information, it's super uncomfortable,

00:21:06.326 --> 00:21:10.406
they will go back and try to double down on the beliefs or the belief system

00:21:10.406 --> 00:21:14.066
that they've always known because they want it to comfort them.

00:21:14.286 --> 00:21:17.826
But then the more they dig now that they are aware that, okay,

00:21:17.906 --> 00:21:20.986
maybe it isn't exactly what I thought it is, they may start to find even more,

00:21:21.266 --> 00:21:24.166
which now it's really uncomfortable. So it went from I didn't know what I didn't

00:21:24.166 --> 00:21:25.926
know to now I know, but I don't know what to do.

00:21:26.206 --> 00:21:29.206
Or it's just really sometimes people say, I wish I didn't even know.

00:21:29.626 --> 00:21:34.306
And then you move on to that. The next step is now I'm doing more than I did before.

00:21:34.366 --> 00:21:37.666
I'm learning more than I did. And it's starting to become more comfortable.

00:21:37.846 --> 00:21:41.406
But that you'll still find times where something will come up and be triggering

00:21:41.406 --> 00:21:43.306
and you will then feel super uncomfortable again.

00:21:43.546 --> 00:21:47.286
Yeah, but then you'll reach the point where it's I cannot believe I was ever

00:21:47.286 --> 00:21:49.886
not thinking like this. And you'll be so grateful.

00:21:50.546 --> 00:21:53.626
Sam said, hey, I was in here a while ago and I just want to say I made tons

00:21:53.626 --> 00:21:56.226
of progress since the last time and I'm very proud of myself.

00:21:56.406 --> 00:21:58.566
I got a new job for the first time. Sam, let's go.

00:21:58.946 --> 00:22:01.866
Hey, Sam, if you even want to give us a little, yeah, give us a little idea

00:22:01.866 --> 00:22:05.266
of what you were. Yeah, I love that you were in here a while ago and you've made tons of progress.

00:22:05.426 --> 00:22:08.006
I would love, yeah, that's a great update. And anything else you want to share,

00:22:08.486 --> 00:22:11.926
yeah, Sid, make sure we find that. Jen Design Store, I love when you're on.

00:22:12.386 --> 00:22:14.766
Probably talking about you, Sid. Jen, Sidney says thank you.

00:22:15.006 --> 00:22:17.186
She was talking about me. Yeah, she is. Yeah.

00:22:17.606 --> 00:22:20.466
All right. I'm thinking Xavier a little bit up there, too. people seem to crave

00:22:20.466 --> 00:22:23.286
meaning at any cost and that is a great way to put it

00:22:23.286 --> 00:22:26.166
we are meaning making creatures we our brain

00:22:26.166 --> 00:22:28.986
is a prediction engine we want to make sense of things and

00:22:28.986 --> 00:22:33.006
we're doing it if without even knowing there's a concept in a book called non-violent

00:22:33.006 --> 00:22:36.426
communication that i love it's by this guy marshall rosenberg who's passed but

00:22:36.426 --> 00:22:40.426
he talks about one of the one of the things we need to do is separate our observation

00:22:40.426 --> 00:22:43.726
from our judgment so anytime we are observing somebody we're making a judgment

00:22:43.726 --> 00:22:46.966
so if you are looking at me and the way i'm sitting right now and maybe i know,

00:22:47.106 --> 00:22:48.586
yeah, my shoes and my sock combo,

00:22:48.786 --> 00:22:51.326
most likely you're making a judgment, whatever that is.

00:22:51.626 --> 00:22:54.246
And I don't know what's a good judgment there, because I didn't even know you

00:22:54.246 --> 00:22:55.886
could see my socks and shoes in the frame.

00:22:56.526 --> 00:23:01.426
Sid? They're matching. Okay. Weirdo. Freak. Okay. We didn't have to go there.

00:23:01.966 --> 00:23:05.126
The one that people do this the most on is, and I love people watching,

00:23:05.206 --> 00:23:06.686
I'm not saying that you should not do this.

00:23:06.806 --> 00:23:13.566
It just is of if you see maybe not the most attractive guy with a very attractive

00:23:13.566 --> 00:23:15.466
woman. What is your first thought, Sydney?

00:23:17.587 --> 00:23:20.767
That they just love each other. I hate when you do this. Okay.

00:23:21.067 --> 00:23:24.747
You can't put me in this hole. Get back in the box, Sid.

00:23:25.787 --> 00:23:30.007
I often find myself thinking, why, that man must have a very good job and must

00:23:30.007 --> 00:23:31.327
make large sums of money.

00:23:31.647 --> 00:23:34.507
God forbid he has a personality. Exactly. But I mean, again,

00:23:34.607 --> 00:23:36.547
we just make these observations and judgments.

00:23:36.747 --> 00:23:42.647
So, one of the first beginnings of emotional maturity is to separate the observation from the judgment.

00:23:42.807 --> 00:23:46.607
I am observing that they are together and I'm making the judgment that he must

00:23:46.607 --> 00:23:47.507
have large sums of money.

00:23:47.587 --> 00:23:50.367
Because the danger there is when you

00:23:50.367 --> 00:23:53.787
approach someone then let's say it's one of your kids and they're

00:23:53.787 --> 00:23:57.527
not doing their homework and you say man it's because they're lazy then if you

00:23:57.527 --> 00:24:00.047
go in and say hey what's up champ and they're like hey i'm just not really feeling

00:24:00.047 --> 00:24:02.707
it today i've had a rough day in your mind you're like they're not even willing

00:24:02.707 --> 00:24:05.507
to admit that they're lazy so you you're making their and then you're projecting

00:24:05.507 --> 00:24:09.247
those judgments onto somebody and basically saying prove me wrong about the

00:24:09.247 --> 00:24:13.127
thing that is not true about you that i just made up that game is rigged,

00:24:13.647 --> 00:24:20.727
sorry were you talking about me no wait no no well you gave me this adhd sir

00:24:20.727 --> 00:24:26.627
so okay i did and you are welcome i was i clicked one time on something that was about an adhd.

00:24:27.427 --> 00:24:30.147
Something about being more organized something kind of silly like

00:24:30.147 --> 00:24:33.147
that and now every single thing and every algorithm of

00:24:33.147 --> 00:24:35.967
everything i own is all about adhd and the number

00:24:35.967 --> 00:24:38.927
of times that people say it's your superpower like that

00:24:38.927 --> 00:24:41.727
is such a buzzword which i do i dig it i like

00:24:41.727 --> 00:24:46.607
it but I don't know do you feel like it's a super power soon sometimes not

00:24:46.607 --> 00:24:49.307
all the time no tell me more pal I just hate

00:24:49.307 --> 00:24:53.967
it when I want to get stuff done yeah like it's

00:24:53.967 --> 00:24:57.007
the kind of important thing in life okay let's talk about this for one second

00:24:57.007 --> 00:25:01.347
and then any any questions at all Sam said I'm still struggling a bit but I

00:25:01.347 --> 00:25:05.367
feel like all those tiny steps finally culminated into big moves okay and Sam

00:25:05.367 --> 00:25:07.507
if you even want to share a little bit of what you're struggling with we will

00:25:07.507 --> 00:25:09.807
weigh in and provide amazing wonderful advice.

00:25:11.060 --> 00:25:14.120
Yeah. Well, okay. Let's go back to this. When you were struggling, Sydney.

00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.200
There's another one. Okay. Let's do that. As a mom and a teacher,

00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:21.280
I listen to people all day long, but don't get fed much intellectual conversation.

00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:25.700
Oh, okay. Cause I'm guessing, man, I want to know. Oh, she said that was Jen.

00:25:25.820 --> 00:25:28.160
She said, I love when you were on. Okay. Jen, thank you so much.

00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.600
And Jen, I'm so curious what age you teach and then how old your kids are,

00:25:31.660 --> 00:25:35.020
because I can only imagine a lack of the intellectual conversation.

00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:38.120
And then let's talk about that for a minute. Where would you,

00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:41.380
where would you want to go for intellectual conversation.

00:25:41.580 --> 00:25:46.400
Because I will tell you, I realize how much I love that about being a therapist

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.540
is sometimes we are just talking about some relationship things that may seem

00:25:51.540 --> 00:25:54.400
pretty basic to some, but it's real to that person.

00:25:54.520 --> 00:25:58.540
And other times I've got somebody that's having an existential crisis in life

00:25:58.540 --> 00:26:01.840
and you're just, the session would sound crazy to somebody listening in.

00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:03.560
And I know that I do enjoy that.

00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:06.980
It's pretty stimulating. You enjoy existential crises?

00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.500
I do. I love talking to people about them. Yeah. And when we were talking earlier

00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:13.980
about when somebody deconstructs their faith or steps out of their faith community.

00:26:14.120 --> 00:26:17.800
I love that stuff. And there is a bit of a dark night of the soul that comes after that.

00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.120
Because if you have been trying to make sense of things for so long,

00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.100
we go back to your implicit memory or what it feels like to be you or me or

00:26:23.100 --> 00:26:25.380
any of us is based on the slow residue of your lived experience.

00:26:25.760 --> 00:26:28.280
So, if your lived experience has been continually trying to find ways to fit

00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:30.980
into the community and to make things work and all of a sudden those puzzle

00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:36.920
pieces start to not fit together, then people feel like, I don't know if anything is true.

00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:41.000
And this is a big thing in mental health that I love, the pendulum effect. It is all true.

00:26:41.420 --> 00:26:45.600
Often is met after, slowly after, is anything true? So then I'm going to go,

00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.000
ah, I need everything to be true.

00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.940
And nothing's true. And you eventually settle somewhere in the middle and it's not that scary.

00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:56.160
And that's where you even find yourself or you may even be closer to the divine, that sort of thing.

00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:01.180
Ooh, you're enlightened. I'm feeling it. No, seriously, this is good stuff.

00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:03.780
Oh, okay. You said something though. You said like something about the dark

00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:04.720
night of the solar. Yeah.

00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:08.460
I feel like that is important to talk about because so many people like that.

00:27:09.044 --> 00:27:13.004
Dark thing will happen. And then it's like, you immediately think that,

00:27:13.104 --> 00:27:15.044
okay, yeah, I need to run back to my comfort.

00:27:15.064 --> 00:27:19.784
But like that bad thing is happening because you are like, you're being born

00:27:19.784 --> 00:27:21.164
again. Oh yeah, that's good.

00:27:21.344 --> 00:27:23.544
The phoenix out of the ashes or whatever, you know, it's like,

00:27:23.604 --> 00:27:25.844
that's a good thing to be that uncomfortable.

00:27:26.184 --> 00:27:30.424
Yeah. And it's unfortunate that a lot of times we don't recognize that until much later.

00:27:30.584 --> 00:27:33.924
So it's a bit of a hindsight principle, because when somebody's in it and you

00:27:33.924 --> 00:27:36.364
just want to let them know, man, it's going to be okay.

00:27:36.584 --> 00:27:39.164
But to them, it may not feel like it's going to be okay.

00:27:39.484 --> 00:27:43.904
And I deal with that when people are navigating even things like divorce or

00:27:43.904 --> 00:27:48.604
big breakups in a relationship or just there's uncertainty. We just want to know.

00:27:48.804 --> 00:27:53.344
We crave it so bad. I want to see, okay, or see healthy parent-child discussion.

00:27:53.344 --> 00:27:54.604
So, listening to you both is enriching.

00:27:55.264 --> 00:27:59.364
Okay, Jen is saying that you are providing intellectual conversation, Sid. Yeah.

00:28:00.364 --> 00:28:03.384
Okay. I'm here all 30 minutes. Yeah, yeah.

00:28:04.124 --> 00:28:07.184
Okay. See, I'm okay. I had a hard time because of my childhood with allowing

00:28:07.184 --> 00:28:11.104
myself to experience negative emotions sam thank you very much give that give

00:28:11.104 --> 00:28:15.324
sam something sid wait a cookie or a high five okay do you know what do you

00:28:15.324 --> 00:28:18.444
want okay do you want to do that i don't this is not ready yet but do you know

00:28:18.444 --> 00:28:21.144
have you looked at that t-shirt that's right there beside my chair will you

00:28:21.144 --> 00:28:24.964
hold that up please sid this is my creation of now i've been waiting for this

00:28:24.964 --> 00:28:25.864
for a long time do you know this.

00:28:26.860 --> 00:28:29.860
Okay. I can't wait. It's just being and doing.

00:28:30.360 --> 00:28:32.560
Just being and doing. Because that's when somebody's like, hey,

00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:34.240
why'd you do that? Or what are you doing? What are you doing?

00:28:34.280 --> 00:28:36.680
It's like, I'm just being and doing. That's what I'm doing. I'm just being.

00:28:37.060 --> 00:28:39.600
Because I'm me. And I'm going through life for the very first time.

00:28:39.700 --> 00:28:42.680
I like how you put the white shirt on the dirty floor in the corner.

00:28:43.620 --> 00:28:46.380
That was good touch. People can't see behind the scenes, Sid.

00:28:46.540 --> 00:28:48.920
Can you put it back up on the shelf with the hanger, please?

00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:53.040
The shelf on the hanger? Yeah. On the coat rack thing that I have there.

00:28:53.620 --> 00:28:56.240
Okay, but Sam, let's talk about this. One of my favorite speeches,

00:28:56.500 --> 00:28:59.540
although when I say favorite, I mean, I'm so grateful to be able to talk about

00:28:59.540 --> 00:29:03.240
this stuff, but it is, we could cue the sad music, maybe do that in post-production, Sid.

00:29:03.560 --> 00:29:08.140
But it is why I'm so, so fascinated by the more we're starting to talk,

00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:10.780
I think, in the mental health world, which is all about emotions,

00:29:10.780 --> 00:29:13.500
but it seems like the last couple of years we're opening up about them more,

00:29:13.560 --> 00:29:16.280
or maybe I'm starting to figure it out finally after 20 years of being a therapist.

00:29:16.620 --> 00:29:21.800
But when you're a kid and you express emotions, even a good parent says, hey, calm down.

00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:25.520
Not a big deal, bud. you can get over it or just

00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:28.960
don't worry about it but what are we telling you because you're

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.800
a kid you are worried about it it does seem like a big deal so we're

00:29:31.800 --> 00:29:35.060
basically giving you the message that your feelings yeah

00:29:35.060 --> 00:29:38.380
and your feelings are wrong like you you're even wrong about your own feelings

00:29:38.380 --> 00:29:41.980
champ so over time we stop externalizing our emotions we internalize them and

00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:45.480
we keep them deep inside so when they want to come out we already know well

00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:50.380
these are wrong so why what is wrong with me and so emotions start to just feel

00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:53.600
like they're bad i don't know what to do with them. So Sam, well said.

00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:58.400
And one of the best things you can do is just start to allow yourself to feel.

00:29:58.700 --> 00:30:02.480
And I so love that when you do, where do you feel?

00:30:02.600 --> 00:30:05.080
Because I find that people will feel the big feelings or emotions sometimes

00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:09.320
in their throat, in their chest, in their head, which are these the chakras, Sid? Yes.

00:30:10.512 --> 00:30:12.992
Okay, where do you feel? I already knew that. Well, I do, I think,

00:30:13.052 --> 00:30:15.372
but I know there's like seven of them, eight of them, nine.

00:30:16.332 --> 00:30:19.752
So, I don't know where they all are because I have wanted to go check that out

00:30:19.752 --> 00:30:23.192
because people will tell me they feel their feelings in their tummy or their chest.

00:30:23.312 --> 00:30:26.912
Like, I feel mine more in my chest. You should do that when you're meditating.

00:30:27.192 --> 00:30:30.612
Okay. I do have a meditation that has those. Yeah, and then you can like feel

00:30:30.612 --> 00:30:34.212
wherever you're feeling like tension or like blockages, you can like send like

00:30:34.212 --> 00:30:35.912
light and focus on that area.

00:30:36.132 --> 00:30:40.812
Okay. And that will like bring stuff up that you like maybe need to work through. Okay. Okay.

00:30:41.392 --> 00:30:43.932
And the trauma treatment resistant anxiety and depression. Hey,

00:30:44.012 --> 00:30:45.092
we should talk about this sometime too.

00:30:45.392 --> 00:30:49.192
When Sam, we're talking about treatment resistant depression is so one of these

00:30:49.192 --> 00:30:52.072
days we'll talk about the world of psychedelic assisted therapy,

00:30:52.072 --> 00:30:58.212
because I know ketamine has been FDA approved and you got the component of the mushroom psilocybin,

00:30:58.392 --> 00:31:02.452
although it's going to first, I think be approved for Parkinson's, I think is, or,

00:31:03.372 --> 00:31:07.052
Parkinson's disorder, but low dose ketamine, microdosing ketamine,

00:31:07.172 --> 00:31:08.232
that stuff is available now.

00:31:08.232 --> 00:31:11.212
And that is has really good results

00:31:11.212 --> 00:31:14.632
from treatment resistant depression yeah okay jenna

00:31:14.632 --> 00:31:17.432
just joined a mom's group so we can focus on our individual mental health oh teach

00:31:17.432 --> 00:31:20.552
second grade bless you jen that oh

00:31:20.552 --> 00:31:24.072
how old is that let's figure the math because i think that's a that's like just

00:31:24.072 --> 00:31:29.152
herding cats all day is i can imagine but man how important you are though second

00:31:29.152 --> 00:31:31.932
grade okay i've always i'm some people know this stuff off the top of their

00:31:31.932 --> 00:31:37.012
head if she can beat us there how much is When I look at a kid,

00:31:37.112 --> 00:31:38.692
it's either three or like...

00:31:38.692 --> 00:31:40.932
15? Oh, six to seven.

00:31:41.912 --> 00:31:44.972
Okay, I do think that must be... I should be asking, right? Yeah,

00:31:45.292 --> 00:31:49.672
that's wild though. Sam, I like what you're saying here. Oh wait, first of all, Jin, if...

00:31:50.563 --> 00:31:53.423
Join a mom's group so we can focus on individual mental health. I teach second grade.

00:31:53.643 --> 00:31:56.543
If you're up for it, shoot me an email at tony at tonyoverbay.com.

00:31:56.743 --> 00:31:59.283
And I've got, it's funny, I've had a couple of other mom's groups ask.

00:31:59.443 --> 00:32:02.503
I even spoke at one one time, like virtually, and it was a lot of fun.

00:32:02.763 --> 00:32:06.463
But I've got a little bit of some information I'd love to share that you could

00:32:06.463 --> 00:32:09.563
use as your muse for the mom's group, if that would help at all.

00:32:09.863 --> 00:32:13.743
Jennifer said, I just wanted to drop in and say, I tried anxiety meds for the

00:32:13.743 --> 00:32:15.883
first time and I should have a long time ago.

00:32:16.183 --> 00:32:19.023
Wow. Okay, Jennifer, tell us about that. That's the best feeling ever.

00:32:19.023 --> 00:32:21.183
Were like, I bet that it, cause I should probably do that too.

00:32:21.823 --> 00:32:26.783
Okay. Go to therapy, man. And it's so, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

00:32:27.043 --> 00:32:29.483
There's the, we want to know and people will often say to me,

00:32:29.583 --> 00:32:31.983
well, what if it won't work? And what if this, and what if that?

00:32:32.163 --> 00:32:35.543
And there's really like no answer to that. So yeah, that would be a thing,

00:32:35.703 --> 00:32:37.003
but you won't know until you do.

00:32:37.223 --> 00:32:40.403
And then taking that leap of faith is often such a powerful thing.

00:32:40.563 --> 00:32:43.523
And I know Sid that we've done content on this before, but I can't

00:32:43.523 --> 00:32:46.583
say it enough is that I

00:32:46.583 --> 00:32:49.683
call your emotional baseline so when you're feeling down your baseline

00:32:49.683 --> 00:32:52.603
of emotions are low and when you're when everything's going well in

00:32:52.603 --> 00:32:55.223
your life your baseline of emotions are high your decisions are coming at you

00:32:55.223 --> 00:32:58.023
every day at the same level you're going to react to them different

00:32:58.023 --> 00:33:01.163
when you're feeling better than you when you're not feeling so good so when

00:33:01.163 --> 00:33:04.303
somebody's feeling pretty low when is the time now that they're trying to contemplate

00:33:04.303 --> 00:33:07.683
should i be on medication it's when they're feeling pretty crummy and so

00:33:07.683 --> 00:33:10.303
often the medication taking that leap of faith can raise your

00:33:10.303 --> 00:33:13.543
baseline up to a point where now you can access tools you need not

00:33:13.543 --> 00:33:16.683
like hammers and rakes and stuff unless you need them don't like force yourself

00:33:16.683 --> 00:33:19.663
to like hit a rock bottom before you

00:33:19.663 --> 00:33:22.523
heal yeah that's what i did how was

00:33:22.523 --> 00:33:25.983
that said it was not fun no oh

00:33:25.983 --> 00:33:31.403
but okay but let's talk about this though let's go hippie for a second because

00:33:31.403 --> 00:33:34.923
you're as everyone listening you're going through life for the very first time

00:33:34.923 --> 00:33:39.363
as you so you're gonna do things when you're gonna do them and when people typically

00:33:39.363 --> 00:33:42.763
try to tell somebody i think you need to do this what's the first reaction that you have.

00:33:43.603 --> 00:33:48.203
Don't tell me what to do. Exactly. That's normal. It's this concept called psychological reactance.

00:33:48.343 --> 00:33:51.003
It's that I, you know, I'll do anything other than what you were telling me to do.

00:33:51.103 --> 00:33:53.383
And this is why when you're telling somebody who is stressed and you're like,

00:33:53.643 --> 00:33:57.243
you need to calm down, they don't go, okay, thanks.

00:33:57.523 --> 00:34:00.983
They like, I can't calm down. And you can't tell me it's our inner,

00:34:01.243 --> 00:34:03.403
I call it our inner teenager. Don't tell me what to do, man.

00:34:03.743 --> 00:34:08.363
Yeah, I feel like it's because you are so like, a lot of times you do know what to do.

00:34:08.523 --> 00:34:11.603
And you're just so comfortable, like lying to yourself

00:34:11.603 --> 00:34:14.563
that when somebody tells you something and it's actually

00:34:14.563 --> 00:34:17.303
maybe a helpful thing you get really it's like you

00:34:17.303 --> 00:34:20.183
said like it's the reaction like you get so i i'm talking about myself

00:34:20.183 --> 00:34:23.423
by the way oh i did not know that really yeah and

00:34:23.423 --> 00:34:26.563
so i found it's like okay if i'm getting really defensive like maybe they're

00:34:26.563 --> 00:34:30.143
like literally speaking truth for real they might be and i call them the yeah

00:34:30.143 --> 00:34:33.803
buts so if i were to say right now said yeah so probably a good idea to start

00:34:33.803 --> 00:34:38.863
therapy right give me your yeah buts honestly what are your yeah buts i just

00:34:38.863 --> 00:34:41.503
it's like a I have to get in the car, drive,

00:34:42.263 --> 00:34:47.943
get out of the car, walk, sit, know what day, know what time. That sounds like a lot.

00:34:50.284 --> 00:34:56.064
It's hard for me. But anytime we want to do something new or something that

00:34:56.064 --> 00:35:01.364
might be scary or the unknown, just sit back and watch the yeah buts and they will happen.

00:35:01.784 --> 00:35:04.324
Even today, Sid and I were talking about doing this in the middle of the day

00:35:04.324 --> 00:35:05.324
and we haven't done that before.

00:35:05.524 --> 00:35:08.544
And I had a lot of, well, yeah, but you know what? Yeah, but what if Sidney's

00:35:08.544 --> 00:35:11.704
not even going to be available? I almost didn't even ask, which is so silly

00:35:11.704 --> 00:35:13.444
because I wouldn't have given you a chance to respond.

00:35:13.904 --> 00:35:15.504
And then it was like, yeah. Don't do that. It's so annoying.

00:35:15.604 --> 00:35:19.644
Oh, when I did, I'm glad we're here because I need to allow you to tell me no old man.

00:35:19.844 --> 00:35:23.484
Yeah. Okay. I like that Sam said this thing too. He said, where was it at?

00:35:23.604 --> 00:35:26.524
He said, I try not to focus on the diagnosis rather than acknowledging my own

00:35:26.524 --> 00:35:27.744
struggles as personal to me.

00:35:28.104 --> 00:35:31.204
I was having a conversation about this with somebody else and I really like

00:35:31.204 --> 00:35:34.804
it because so I'm not a huge diagnosis guy,

00:35:34.804 --> 00:35:40.484
except for when somebody really feels like it is helpful for them because I

00:35:40.484 --> 00:35:45.044
deal a fair amount in the world of people who turn to unhealthy coping mechanisms, AKA addiction.

00:35:45.604 --> 00:35:47.684
And there are some real definite.

00:35:48.404 --> 00:35:53.444
Oh, hey, Betsy. There's definite things that are addiction where it is ruining somebody's life.

00:35:53.624 --> 00:35:57.364
But so often people are doing things because they don't feel connected,

00:35:57.364 --> 00:36:02.564
I always say, in their relationship or as a parent or in their faith or their health or their career.

00:36:02.784 --> 00:36:06.204
So then they turn to these unhealthy coping mechanisms. So when they find the

00:36:06.204 --> 00:36:10.644
tools to interact better in those areas, often they don't feel the need as much

00:36:10.644 --> 00:36:11.664
to turn to a coping mechanism.

00:36:11.864 --> 00:36:15.064
But where I'm going with this, I've got to... Wait, I love this. Okay.

00:36:15.444 --> 00:36:17.244
Can I say something before I forget? Please. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:17.244 --> 00:36:20.664
I don't know if this is where you're going, but I was reading something about

00:36:20.664 --> 00:36:26.804
this or something, but the idea of changing your perception of how you see addiction,

00:36:27.044 --> 00:36:31.364
it's like you aren't doing it because you're a bad person, you're doing it because

00:36:31.364 --> 00:36:33.064
you were trying to heal. Absolutely.

00:36:33.364 --> 00:36:37.704
You were doing it out of the only form of self-love that you could understand at the time.

00:36:37.864 --> 00:36:42.464
Once you see that, once you face the shadow and the shadow, you realize.

00:36:43.244 --> 00:36:48.544
Was there to help you, not hurt you. That changed everything for me.

00:36:48.664 --> 00:36:51.164
That made me just stop needing it as much.

00:36:51.324 --> 00:36:53.984
Because it was not scary or bad anymore.

00:36:54.164 --> 00:36:57.204
And there's a type of therapy called internal family systems,

00:36:57.244 --> 00:37:01.044
which I think I'm going to start trying to work a lot more into my own practice.

00:37:01.444 --> 00:37:04.424
And it is the concept, Sid, where there are no bad parts. So,

00:37:04.604 --> 00:37:08.744
even the part of you that would identify, not just you, but the part of one

00:37:08.744 --> 00:37:12.304
that would identify as an addict is trying to help you.

00:37:12.384 --> 00:37:15.884
Because when you felt completely overwhelmed and didn't know what to do,

00:37:16.044 --> 00:37:19.664
it's saying, hey, this is a way to feel better for a time.

00:37:19.884 --> 00:37:23.664
And so, your addict, and you kind of like call it your sub-personality.

00:37:23.904 --> 00:37:27.904
Actually, in my addiction recovery course, The Path Back, there's an exercise

00:37:27.904 --> 00:37:31.384
in there where we sub, we personify the sub-personality.

00:37:31.504 --> 00:37:35.104
So, let's say that you have an addict and an addictive part of you.

00:37:35.224 --> 00:37:38.564
I like alliteration, so we'll call it Andy. And then you literally are having a conversation.

00:37:38.844 --> 00:37:42.984
Hey, Andy, I appreciate you. You've meant well, like you've really tried to take care of us.

00:37:43.124 --> 00:37:47.644
Probably not the most emotionally healthy way to do it, but I know you meant

00:37:47.644 --> 00:37:50.784
well because we have no bad parts is the belief there.

00:37:51.124 --> 00:37:55.744
Imagine Andy is like a baby and just throw Andy in the backseat, blow him up.

00:37:56.289 --> 00:37:59.229
And you're driving now, you know? Okay, and I like that you said that because

00:37:59.229 --> 00:38:02.129
Andy's still going to scream and cry, but you don't have to listen to him.

00:38:02.129 --> 00:38:03.069
You can turn the music up.

00:38:03.369 --> 00:38:07.349
That's right. Yeah. So there's a quote I love. The strongest force in the human

00:38:07.349 --> 00:38:09.729
personality is to act in alignment with how you see yourself.

00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:12.989
So however you identify yourself, you're going to find a way back to that home base.

00:38:13.149 --> 00:38:17.329
So if I have somebody that has been doing amazing, not turning to the unhealthy

00:38:17.329 --> 00:38:19.969
coping mechanisms or the addictions, but they continually identify,

00:38:19.969 --> 00:38:24.509
but I'm an addict, then again, strongest force in the human personality is to

00:38:24.509 --> 00:38:25.969
act in alignment with how you see yourself.

00:38:26.289 --> 00:38:30.229
So, if they identify as an addict, over time, they will find a way back to that home base.

00:38:30.829 --> 00:38:33.229
Rather than if they're saying for people that are Christian,

00:38:33.389 --> 00:38:35.949
spiritual, if they're my child of God, or I'm a being that knows,

00:38:35.949 --> 00:38:38.249
I'm a curious person, I'm somebody who figures things out.

00:38:38.389 --> 00:38:42.229
If that's how I identify myself, then I might actually have a setback or a relapse,

00:38:42.369 --> 00:38:45.509
but I will find my way back to this home base that I identify as somebody who

00:38:45.509 --> 00:38:47.009
will figure it out. Does that make sense?

00:38:47.309 --> 00:38:50.629
I dig that. Sam said, oh, and another, did you read this? I don't think you did.

00:38:50.909 --> 00:38:53.849
Oh, and another shift I made is knowing the meds might help,

00:38:53.929 --> 00:38:55.349
but I'm the one making the progress.

00:38:55.349 --> 00:38:58.129
Oh i haven't thought of that wait that was really

00:38:58.129 --> 00:39:02.069
good that one sit for a minute that's really good yeah because okay in editing

00:39:02.069 --> 00:39:08.149
do this let's say that i told sam that okay no i told him that no no no so like

00:39:08.149 --> 00:39:12.629
i always told sam i was just thinking sam the meds might help but you're the

00:39:12.629 --> 00:39:17.989
one making the progress no no sam here's what i always tell people the meds might help,

00:39:18.729 --> 00:39:22.349
but sam it's you buddy it's you it's you

00:39:22.349 --> 00:39:25.969
that's making the change here's why that's significant it because people will

00:39:25.969 --> 00:39:28.629
take medication but then they won't go to therapy or they

00:39:28.629 --> 00:39:31.649
won't do a lot so it will help them feel a bit better but then

00:39:31.649 --> 00:39:34.429
are they now using raising that emotional baseline and then

00:39:34.429 --> 00:39:37.209
using that to take action and grab these new tools are

00:39:37.209 --> 00:39:39.609
they starting to meditate are they starting to figure out their values are starting

00:39:39.609 --> 00:39:44.489
to take action on things that matter like i always told sam i mean i think sam

00:39:44.489 --> 00:39:46.709
and i had that conversation a couple years ago and he was like tony i don't

00:39:46.709 --> 00:39:52.089
know what to do and i'm like sam listen okay do you have enough to edit in and

00:39:52.089 --> 00:39:56.329
i deserve to credit myself not the meds wait did i already read that yeah.

00:39:58.149 --> 00:40:02.369
Okay i was waiting

00:40:02.369 --> 00:40:05.609
for a miracle med to cure me for much too long yeah

00:40:05.609 --> 00:40:08.309
and that's a good point too okay hang on xavier makes a very good

00:40:08.309 --> 00:40:11.529
point improv comic yes and not yeah

00:40:11.529 --> 00:40:14.329
but so yes and yes and

00:40:14.329 --> 00:40:19.109
yourself okay exactly i like it jen my email isn't in the link tree can't you

00:40:19.109 --> 00:40:22.429
oh i want to make some joke but i was gonna say my assistant needs to get on

00:40:22.429 --> 00:40:26.709
it but sid's not my assistant i need to actually look at my link tree i know

00:40:26.709 --> 00:40:30.189
that's i'm kidding let's go back to what i was talking about to sam but my email

00:40:30.189 --> 00:40:33.409
is i am the foundation that's right and i am the blush,

00:40:34.389 --> 00:40:38.549
was that funny come on i said i'm the blush the blush you're the foundation

00:40:38.549 --> 00:40:43.769
that's a makeup thing right oh yeah no that's funny oh boy okay don't try that one again.

00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:49.200
Okay. Tony at Tony over bay.com. You can email me.

00:40:49.420 --> 00:40:53.520
And if somebody is hearing that out of context, Jen has a mom's group and I

00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:57.020
would love to provide her with some material that can act as a muse so that

00:40:57.020 --> 00:40:59.320
Jen can have some stuff that they can talk about.

00:40:59.580 --> 00:41:03.160
And oh, as I say, oh, okay. Xavier said, I've heard an addict say that his use

00:41:03.160 --> 00:41:04.460
kept him alive until he could heal.

00:41:04.580 --> 00:41:08.380
And that's, that's a great point. So that is the, we're no bad part because

00:41:08.380 --> 00:41:09.600
it is trying to keep you alive.

00:41:09.720 --> 00:41:14.020
It kind of, it goes back to, I would highly recommend go find either of my podcasts,

00:41:14.020 --> 00:41:15.860
waking up to narcissism or the virtual couch.

00:41:16.160 --> 00:41:19.680
And a few weeks ago, I did a two-part series on emotional immaturity.

00:41:19.900 --> 00:41:23.820
And it is whatever we did as a kid that was, it was adaptive.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.420
It kept us alive is now most likely maladaptive as our adult self.

00:41:28.580 --> 00:41:30.440
So the little kid's still trying to take over.

00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:34.380
So let's just pretend that I didn't get as much attention as I would have liked.

00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:38.060
Then I need to be the best at everything, or I got to be funny,

00:41:38.240 --> 00:41:42.580
or I've got to do sports real well or I got to have like 800 podcasts or I have to have to perform.

00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:47.300
But now let's say that I'm in a relationship and that becomes a lot for my wife

00:41:47.300 --> 00:41:50.660
because I'm constantly like, hey, did you see the thing or do you think I'm funny or are we good?

00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:55.680
And so it was adaptive as a child. It helped me stay alive, but now it's maladaptive as an adult.

00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.800
Or you get a lot of kids that were in, let's say, emotionally,

00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.540
can you say, I'm trying to worry about the things that will get us shadow banned.

00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:07.860
Were not emotionally healthy in their childhood.

00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:12.340
And so then they learned to just sit back and not talk and not offer opinions

00:42:12.340 --> 00:42:15.180
and try to just fade into the background to not be seen.

00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:19.520
So that kept them alive as a child. But then as an adult, then that is,

00:42:19.680 --> 00:42:23.640
I get those people in my office for couples therapy and that person will still

00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:25.740
just shut down because they don't want to get in trouble.

00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:29.200
They just feel like, okay, if I can just hold out, then we'll move on and they'll

00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:32.480
go on to somebody else. So then it's maladaptive as an adult.

00:42:33.860 --> 00:42:38.960
Sam remembers when I gave him that great advice Okay Really Sam?

00:42:40.652 --> 00:42:44.632
I was going to send him a virtual couch prize pack. I really like that though.

00:42:44.832 --> 00:42:48.872
I think it's just like the whole idea that you heal through like being like,

00:42:49.012 --> 00:42:50.812
no, bad, stop it, drop it.

00:42:50.972 --> 00:42:55.552
You know, it's like, that's just not true. You heal when you like love everything,

00:42:55.552 --> 00:43:00.732
like the good and the bad because you see what it was doing for you or teaching

00:43:00.732 --> 00:43:02.332
you. You just didn't know yet.

00:43:02.732 --> 00:43:05.252
Absolutely. And there's, okay, let me spend a second on this.

00:43:05.392 --> 00:43:09.512
So I've got, so I've got an, hey, Jessica, I've got an emotional immaturity cheat sheet.

00:43:09.512 --> 00:43:14.492
And I will say, if you want to email me at Tony at Tony at Tony overbay.com

00:43:14.492 --> 00:43:18.072
and ask for the cheat sheet, I'll send you this because this one's powerful.

00:43:18.232 --> 00:43:22.272
But at the beginning, I quote a book. It's a fictional book called it's called

00:43:22.272 --> 00:43:24.512
The Fury and it's by Alex Mikulaytas.

00:43:25.172 --> 00:43:28.912
But in and I'm going to read for a second, Sid, so forgive me here. But this is so good.

00:43:29.172 --> 00:43:31.792
He's talking about in the book, this character is talking about his fictional

00:43:31.792 --> 00:43:34.152
therapist. And he says, my therapist was called Mariana.

00:43:34.352 --> 00:43:36.992
And I remember when she said something chilling. He said, it messed up my head

00:43:36.992 --> 00:43:38.912
for a long time. But looking back, it changed my life.

00:43:39.252 --> 00:43:41.792
When we are young and afraid, when we're shamed and humiliated,

00:43:41.932 --> 00:43:44.452
something happens, time stops and it freezes at that moment.

00:43:44.792 --> 00:43:47.612
A full version, oh no, a version of us is trapped at that age forever.

00:43:47.812 --> 00:43:49.692
A frightened child is hiding in your mind.

00:43:50.092 --> 00:43:53.092
It's still unsafe. It's still unheard and unloved. And the sooner you get in

00:43:53.092 --> 00:43:55.772
touch with that child and communicate with them, the more harmonious your life

00:43:55.772 --> 00:43:57.712
will be. And here's the part that is chilling.

00:43:58.212 --> 00:44:01.672
He said, after all, that's what he grew you for, isn't it? A strong adult body

00:44:01.672 --> 00:44:04.172
to look after him and his interests, to take care of him and protect him.

00:44:04.312 --> 00:44:06.952
You were meant to liberate him, but instead you ended up becoming his jailer.

00:44:06.952 --> 00:44:10.152
So when we were talking earlier about our emotions, we learned to stuff our

00:44:10.152 --> 00:44:13.332
emotions and we learned to internalize our emotions and our emotions are bad.

00:44:13.572 --> 00:44:18.432
But that was the way our little body was trying to communicate with us, fear or sadness.

00:44:18.632 --> 00:44:23.372
And it was trying to say, let me just imprint this on you now and promise me

00:44:23.372 --> 00:44:26.412
when you get to be a big adult, you'll take care of us. You'll fix it because

00:44:26.412 --> 00:44:27.932
nobody else is going to fix it for us.

00:44:28.212 --> 00:44:32.052
But we somehow missed that memo. So now that you are in your adult body,

00:44:32.272 --> 00:44:34.692
it's time to heal that inner child. Does that resonate?

00:44:36.252 --> 00:44:41.152
Totally. I just did like a bunch of like inner work with this. Did you? Okay.

00:44:42.112 --> 00:44:44.492
The best thing ever. Okay, Jessica said... Yeah, I like what you're saying.

00:44:44.572 --> 00:44:48.612
Okay. I finally hung out with friends, or if I finally hung out with friends

00:44:48.612 --> 00:44:51.732
and my sister is not talking to me, do you think she's jealous?

00:44:54.489 --> 00:44:57.169
I don't know if I know enough about the situation, you know?

00:44:57.389 --> 00:45:00.609
Because, like, what if it's something completely external as to what,

00:45:00.649 --> 00:45:03.109
like, what if she's going through something that has nothing to do with you?

00:45:03.269 --> 00:45:07.729
But from what you're saying, like, yeah, that's what it seems like she's projecting.

00:45:08.189 --> 00:45:11.849
Well, I like it. I really appreciate that you said, because I like to say that

00:45:11.849 --> 00:45:14.249
there's so many variables that are going into situations.

00:45:14.369 --> 00:45:18.289
But when you've been doing something for a very long time, you do notice patterns.

00:45:18.289 --> 00:45:22.809
And so my go-to in that is, yeah, it's jealousy or she's projecting that,

00:45:22.889 --> 00:45:24.169
okay, it can't be that easy.

00:45:24.309 --> 00:45:26.269
You can't just hang out with friends and then they like you.

00:45:26.409 --> 00:45:31.629
So if she's felt like internally, this is difficult or it's harder to hang out with friends.

00:45:31.809 --> 00:45:35.609
And that's unfortunate because this is one of those concepts of the emotionally

00:45:35.609 --> 00:45:39.589
immature and I'm saying bless her heart, but it's a, if I think it, it is true.

00:45:39.789 --> 00:45:42.909
So if I think that then my friends like you better, then it is true.

00:45:43.169 --> 00:45:47.269
And now therefore, until my friends now show me that they like me better than

00:45:47.269 --> 00:45:50.489
you, then And I'm not going to interact with them, but the friends don't even know.

00:45:50.969 --> 00:45:53.589
So that one can be really tough. So this is, we go back to what we were talking

00:45:53.589 --> 00:45:56.429
about earlier. And it's one of those times where, man, her sister really needs

00:45:56.429 --> 00:46:01.769
to be aware or able to self-confront or a bit, a little bit of humility of able

00:46:01.769 --> 00:46:03.949
to say, okay, what am I missing?

00:46:04.529 --> 00:46:07.169
And man, I, so I've been digging deep into the whole world of,

00:46:07.189 --> 00:46:12.829
of Buddhism and the concept of wishing well upon others is I think a powerful one here as well.

00:46:13.149 --> 00:46:16.789
So yeah, like wish well on your enemies. Cause only hurt people hurt people.

00:46:16.789 --> 00:46:18.169
Is that what you're going into?

00:46:18.469 --> 00:46:23.249
No, I am. I totally do this. And it feels like empowering to do it too.

00:46:23.389 --> 00:46:25.109
And it's funny because I didn't even know.

00:46:26.129 --> 00:46:28.709
It's one of those I wasn't as aware of where I would hear about the success

00:46:28.709 --> 00:46:30.589
of somebody else, a friend or a colleague.

00:46:30.849 --> 00:46:33.149
And then I would think I would be jealous. And I would think,

00:46:33.249 --> 00:46:36.869
man, that stings. I can't. I bet they think they're better. But now it's just good for them, period.

00:46:37.469 --> 00:46:41.229
And it's nice because when we were talking earlier, this path of becoming enlightenment

00:46:41.229 --> 00:46:44.429
or knowledge, I didn't know what I didn't know. Then I'm learning.

00:46:44.609 --> 00:46:46.789
And now I know. But I don't really know what to do with it. or I don't do it

00:46:46.789 --> 00:46:50.729
very often, then I move into the, okay, I do it more than I don't. And then I just am.

00:46:50.909 --> 00:46:54.749
I have become, is this what I do? And so, it becomes your reaction,

00:46:54.749 --> 00:46:56.389
which is really powerful, I think.

00:46:57.389 --> 00:47:00.289
Yeah. That part is like the best part, I feel like.

00:47:00.369 --> 00:47:05.549
And you just have to be so okay with being so uncomfortable until then.

00:47:05.769 --> 00:47:09.529
And I feel like at first, right, it kind of comes in moments.

00:47:09.569 --> 00:47:13.189
Like you'll maybe react that way one day and then the next day you won't.

00:47:13.189 --> 00:47:16.009
You'll be like, oh no is everything over did i lose all my

00:47:16.009 --> 00:47:18.849
progress but it's like no one day you really will

00:47:18.849 --> 00:47:22.109
just wake up and like that's who you will be i'm glad you say that because that

00:47:22.109 --> 00:47:25.969
is it's so there's so many cliches that are cliches because they're real but

00:47:25.969 --> 00:47:29.609
the they're all give me one that's not real uh oh man now i want to find one

00:47:29.609 --> 00:47:33.789
give me a couple of minutes with chat gbt like it's just knowledge yeah yeah

00:47:33.789 --> 00:47:38.829
over time okay you're right because i often mistake cliches with pop psychology.

00:47:40.229 --> 00:47:45.089
So there will be pretty crummy psychological advice given at times that but

00:47:45.089 --> 00:47:47.649
you're right that's different than a cliche that's fair yeah like when you said

00:47:47.649 --> 00:47:51.209
is perception is your reality is that even a cliche it is but it's a good one

00:47:51.209 --> 00:47:52.629
I feel like that is just so like that's just like,

00:47:53.238 --> 00:47:57.098
A fact. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's get a couple of these too.

00:47:57.638 --> 00:48:00.838
So Jennifer said, my stepdad has never tried to get to know my sister.

00:48:01.018 --> 00:48:03.758
And we need to be around him when we see my mom.

00:48:04.058 --> 00:48:07.418
It's always awkward energy how to handle it. Such a good question.

00:48:07.858 --> 00:48:11.138
He said, I always like going to you first. You have the real advice,

00:48:11.258 --> 00:48:12.898
then I'll give the boring therapy. You want me to go first?

00:48:13.638 --> 00:48:16.978
So first of all, I want to acknowledge that that is awkward.

00:48:17.058 --> 00:48:20.298
And a lot of times we just need to accept the fact that, okay,

00:48:20.418 --> 00:48:24.998
that kind of stinks. And this is the concept I love of acceptance doesn't mean you give up.

00:48:25.258 --> 00:48:28.098
Acceptance doesn't mean apathy. What acceptance means is I got to take it in

00:48:28.098 --> 00:48:30.618
without defense in its entirety. It is.

00:48:30.918 --> 00:48:34.278
But and I like the example of if somebody is trying to avoid all things that

00:48:34.278 --> 00:48:36.218
will cause them anxiety, then anxiety wins.

00:48:36.358 --> 00:48:39.338
So I have to accept the fact of anxiety and I'll go about the world.

00:48:39.478 --> 00:48:42.518
I'll have positive interactions. I'll get to do things. Oh, yeah.

00:48:42.658 --> 00:48:44.158
And then sometimes I'm going to feel really anxious.

00:48:44.518 --> 00:48:48.218
So I have to accept the fact that my stepdad is a tool, right?

00:48:48.218 --> 00:48:51.678
Because if I want to interact with my mom, if I was like, man, but that's not fair.

00:48:51.858 --> 00:48:53.978
And I don't even know what to do. And I don't want to be around him.

00:48:54.198 --> 00:48:58.038
Then he, I don't want to say wins, but in a sense, he has more control.

00:48:58.538 --> 00:49:03.178
So I'm accepting the fact that, oh, this guy, not so cool, but I want to connect with my mom.

00:49:03.738 --> 00:49:06.738
So there's our first one. And you can jump in, Sid, and tell me any,

00:49:07.038 --> 00:49:10.118
you can debunk any of that. Riddle nerd. Riddle nerd just sent a heart.

00:49:10.878 --> 00:49:14.618
All right. There we go, riddle nerd. Man, riddle nerd got a fair amount of,

00:49:14.778 --> 00:49:18.658
I want to say press, but airtime. in one of the episodes that I'm going to put

00:49:18.658 --> 00:49:19.998
as just an audio episode.

00:49:20.538 --> 00:49:25.858
So if that's his real name, Riddle Nerd, like from birth, then Riddle Nerd,

00:49:26.018 --> 00:49:29.158
prepare because you're about to probably get a lot of attention.

00:49:29.358 --> 00:49:31.338
Might have to get like an agent or those sort of things.

00:49:31.898 --> 00:49:36.558
But the mom though in this scenario, so okay, advice. That acceptance doesn't

00:49:36.558 --> 00:49:38.258
mean apathy, it means to take in without defense.

00:49:38.758 --> 00:49:41.698
And it's always awkward energy. I feel like you just have to,

00:49:41.898 --> 00:49:43.218
this is like what you were talking about earlier, right?

00:49:43.298 --> 00:49:47.698
Like just, you have to learn to like observe and and not absorb,

00:49:48.218 --> 00:49:49.318
you know? Oh, did you make that up?

00:49:49.944 --> 00:49:52.704
Uh let's go with that that's good i didn't

00:49:52.704 --> 00:49:55.884
for real though i like that a lot but i feel like that's really important as

00:49:55.884 --> 00:49:58.884
someone who feels a lot of things yeah i've really

00:49:58.884 --> 00:50:02.624
had to learn that to like find the difference between

00:50:02.624 --> 00:50:05.924
that because like in this situation like that awkward energy

00:50:05.924 --> 00:50:09.344
like it's not necessarily yours like right

00:50:09.344 --> 00:50:12.304
could be being projected onto you from other people or maybe

00:50:12.304 --> 00:50:15.164
it is from you and you don't resonate with it just like learn how

00:50:15.164 --> 00:50:17.984
to transmute it into good

00:50:17.984 --> 00:50:20.944
energy okay that was so good because i was thinking at that time i

00:50:20.944 --> 00:50:23.824
like that you said that so if we're first of all we're accepting it i like

00:50:23.824 --> 00:50:26.904
this concept of whole object relations have to view everything every

00:50:26.904 --> 00:50:29.984
situation as an entire object so i can think stepdad's a

00:50:29.984 --> 00:50:33.244
tool i love my mom we're having good food we

00:50:33.244 --> 00:50:36.164
might play a board game stepdad's a tool take it

00:50:36.164 --> 00:50:39.624
all in i feel like that's like a super like big

00:50:39.624 --> 00:50:42.664
like emotional development point when you

00:50:42.664 --> 00:50:45.704
realize you can have all of these things at once

00:50:45.704 --> 00:50:48.444
yeah like how you say like it is not black and white

00:50:48.444 --> 00:50:51.324
now you can be completely terrified of something

00:50:51.324 --> 00:50:54.264
and completely like at peace and so happy

00:50:54.264 --> 00:50:57.124
that you're doing it and like those can exist at the same time that

00:50:57.124 --> 00:51:00.064
was like a big thing for me good well and that's the so

00:51:00.064 --> 00:51:04.044
okay here's the pop psychology view of this that i'm not as big of a fan of

00:51:04.044 --> 00:51:07.144
is that people are just saying hey you just got to choose to be happy which

00:51:07.144 --> 00:51:10.684
sounds great except for when people then don't feel very happy then they beat

00:51:10.684 --> 00:51:13.684
themselves up and say i guess i'm not good at choosing but what you need to

00:51:13.684 --> 00:51:17.004
do choose to be in the present moment and I can find the things that are happy

00:51:17.004 --> 00:51:19.064
and I can not notice things that maybe aren't.

00:51:19.184 --> 00:51:23.244
Yeah, and if you're just choosing to be happy, then what are you doing?

00:51:24.224 --> 00:51:28.124
Nying your actual emotions? Yes. You're ignoring the lessons that are actually

00:51:28.124 --> 00:51:32.024
trying to be taught to you? Yes, I think so. You're not actually happy.

00:51:32.284 --> 00:51:35.464
Yeah, except for the times where you are, except for the when you aren't.

00:51:35.564 --> 00:51:38.984
And I really mean that intentionally because if somebody can play like a motivational

00:51:38.984 --> 00:51:42.924
YouTube video and have a wind machine going when they walk out the door and

00:51:42.924 --> 00:51:45.644
playing some guitar music and they jump in their car and today's gonna be the

00:51:45.644 --> 00:51:48.244
best day and they've got a flat tire and then they're mad.

00:51:48.604 --> 00:51:50.644
And then it's like, holy cow, I'm not even good at being happy.

00:51:50.644 --> 00:51:54.704
And then they beat themselves up versus I'm going to go be present and I can't

00:51:54.704 --> 00:51:56.164
wait and I'm having this amazing day.

00:51:56.324 --> 00:51:58.784
And look at that. I have a flat tire. That is a thing.

00:51:59.044 --> 00:52:01.904
Check that out. And now I'm going to have this wonderful opportunity to deal

00:52:01.904 --> 00:52:04.004
with it and I can notice my frustration.

00:52:04.324 --> 00:52:10.484
It really is such an emotionally mature developmental process to then learn

00:52:10.484 --> 00:52:13.744
that I can have, like you say, all these different emotions and feelings. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:14.284 --> 00:52:18.264
Like I said, I also went to the city today and I showed my dad what I got and

00:52:18.264 --> 00:52:19.884
my sister stared and didn't care.

00:52:19.884 --> 00:52:22.944
She stayed silent okay okay i'm

00:52:22.944 --> 00:52:25.644
on to her now yeah this is i go back to

00:52:25.644 --> 00:52:28.304
this that person your sister bless her

00:52:28.304 --> 00:52:31.404
heart and i mean that when i say bless her heart because because there's

00:52:31.404 --> 00:52:34.084
a reason why people show up the way that they do and she

00:52:34.084 --> 00:52:37.404
might not even be aware yeah or like she might

00:52:37.404 --> 00:52:40.344
be doing i've definitely had situations where i would do that and

00:52:40.344 --> 00:52:43.324
be so mad that i'm doing it but still not able to

00:52:43.324 --> 00:52:46.024
stop doing it yeah but it's just

00:52:46.024 --> 00:52:48.864
so annoying like everyone can be happy a win for someone else

00:52:48.864 --> 00:52:52.104
is a win for you yeah and here's where becoming differentiated

00:52:52.104 --> 00:52:54.944
becomes one of the the goals and and if you that i

00:52:54.944 --> 00:52:58.344
think that is becoming a buzzword but there's a psychologist who's

00:52:58.344 --> 00:53:02.244
since passed but i really love his work david schnarch and he says differentiation

00:53:02.244 --> 00:53:06.364
is people's ability to balance humankind's two most fundamental drives our desire

00:53:06.364 --> 00:53:09.824
for attachment and connection on the one hand so you want attachment you want

00:53:09.824 --> 00:53:13.404
connection with your sister your dad but also our desire to be an individual

00:53:13.404 --> 00:53:15.824
and direct the course of our own lives on the other So,

00:53:16.144 --> 00:53:20.984
it's our desire to figure out who we are while we are interacting or maintaining

00:53:20.984 --> 00:53:26.704
a relationship with somebody else because if she is just blank staring and you feel bad….

00:53:27.591 --> 00:53:31.151
What there's a chance she wants you to now basically

00:53:31.151 --> 00:53:33.911
give up yourself and then just give in and

00:53:33.911 --> 00:53:36.731
apologize for i can i'm so sorry i got this thing and

00:53:36.731 --> 00:53:39.491
i can tell it's really made you mad and i'm going to try to make

00:53:39.491 --> 00:53:42.151
i'm going to try to sacrifice my feelings and emotions and my sense of

00:53:42.151 --> 00:53:44.851
self to make you feel better even though you're being

00:53:44.851 --> 00:53:47.651
pretty immature yeah it's like she wants you to like dim your

00:53:47.651 --> 00:53:50.571
light yeah for her because because

00:53:50.571 --> 00:53:53.931
the and what's really interesting is when you really learn about differentiation it's

00:53:53.931 --> 00:53:57.431
easier to do with people that you really don't know somebody walks

00:53:57.431 --> 00:54:00.771
up off the street and says hey i'm not a big fan of your podcast okay but

00:54:00.771 --> 00:54:03.491
if sydney says it or my wife says i'm actually not a fan of

00:54:03.491 --> 00:54:06.771
your podcast i'm okay with that tell me more actually

00:54:06.771 --> 00:54:11.311
i don't yeah you shouldn't be but because people that are close closer in your

00:54:11.311 --> 00:54:15.031
life they know the right buttons to push to get you to conform so differentiation

00:54:15.031 --> 00:54:20.911
eventually it it yields emotional autonomy and that really is it's really truly

00:54:20.911 --> 00:54:24.611
the part of relationships that I think that's part that we don't know that we don't know,

00:54:24.771 --> 00:54:29.711
is that rather than trying to play small so that somebody else won't feel bad

00:54:29.711 --> 00:54:32.771
or not say something because I don't want them to think a certain thing of me,

00:54:33.251 --> 00:54:36.671
real intimacy is the, and I know I like saying this a lot, but it's the courage

00:54:36.671 --> 00:54:40.931
to be known for me to share myself and also to know somebody,

00:54:41.171 --> 00:54:42.731
to have the ability to really learn

00:54:42.731 --> 00:54:46.931
who somebody is, even if it makes you uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:54:47.531 --> 00:54:51.491
Jennifer said, and really, I guess it's his loss for not wanting to get to know us too.

00:54:51.691 --> 00:54:54.411
For sure. totally i almost feel like we got it more

00:54:54.411 --> 00:54:57.531
mature than that old man right and okay and that's boy

00:54:57.531 --> 00:55:00.351
i was listening to it was a podcast with the

00:55:00.351 --> 00:55:03.411
comedian theo vaughn and the guy who was the ceo of

00:55:03.411 --> 00:55:06.271
chat gpt sam altman and i like that sam altman

00:55:06.271 --> 00:55:09.611
was saying it was theo vaughn was really looking for certainty tell

00:55:09.611 --> 00:55:12.371
me about what ai is going to mean in the future and sam altman kept saying

00:55:12.371 --> 00:55:15.131
yeah nobody really knows and i really liked his vibe there

00:55:15.131 --> 00:55:17.811
and he said a thing where he said when i was younger and i was

00:55:17.811 --> 00:55:20.611
in a room i was assumed that the older people knew what

00:55:20.611 --> 00:55:23.271
was going on or they knew what was going to happen and then

00:55:23.271 --> 00:55:25.991
he's like and now that i'm that guy i realize nobody really

00:55:25.991 --> 00:55:29.851
does and i think it's brilliant because i'm 55 and

00:55:29.851 --> 00:55:33.391
i still like trying to figure this stuff out i feel like the like smarter people

00:55:33.391 --> 00:55:38.171
are the ones who are totally comfortable that is it what's going on like the

00:55:38.171 --> 00:55:42.831
people that have to feel like they know everything are the people that are so

00:55:42.831 --> 00:55:46.711
uncomfortable with not knowing stuff so now we and that's where said people

00:55:46.711 --> 00:55:50.911
will then go back to how we started today where they're going to go into this I need to find,

00:55:51.151 --> 00:55:55.071
I need to make sense of things and I might even try to create narratives that

00:55:55.071 --> 00:55:56.271
will make sense of things.

00:55:56.591 --> 00:55:59.991
Yeah, and then you're closing, if you pick one thing to be your truth,

00:56:00.271 --> 00:56:05.011
then you're closing yourself off to all of the other knowledge of the world. You know what I mean?

00:56:06.275 --> 00:56:09.135
Don't don't no one knows what's going on come on like be

00:56:09.135 --> 00:56:12.075
real there's a i really like this podcast called hidden

00:56:12.075 --> 00:56:14.795
true crime and it's with lauren mathias and

00:56:14.795 --> 00:56:18.335
her husband dr john who's a clinical forensic psychologist and

00:56:18.335 --> 00:56:21.815
i will never forget he was talking about this chad and laurie daybell case which

00:56:21.815 --> 00:56:26.115
i could talk about all day long but he was saying that he now dr john has a

00:56:26.115 --> 00:56:29.135
new little kid and he's i think he's in his 40s didn't know if he was gonna

00:56:29.135 --> 00:56:32.635
have children and he was over i swear he said i could be wrong but he was looking

00:56:32.635 --> 00:56:35.975
over a valley and he was just sitting there holding his kid's hand and he just thought,

00:56:36.215 --> 00:56:39.735
I'm looking at this valley and it's beautiful and I've got my kid here.

00:56:39.855 --> 00:56:41.095
And he was just so in the present moment.

00:56:41.235 --> 00:56:45.035
And he talked about how somebody like this Chad Daybell, who called himself

00:56:45.035 --> 00:56:49.135
a prophet, he would stand there and he had to now tell, this is where these

00:56:49.135 --> 00:56:52.455
battles were fought in the past and this is where these heavenly things will happen.

00:56:52.615 --> 00:56:57.555
And so, it's like he needed to have this narrative that he knew versus just

00:56:57.555 --> 00:56:59.135
he was missing out on the present moment.

00:56:59.195 --> 00:57:03.255
And I think about that often where when we can accept the fact that maybe we

00:57:03.255 --> 00:57:05.535
don't know, then we can just be in the moment.

00:57:05.815 --> 00:57:08.955
And then you have to do that long enough. And then all of a sudden,

00:57:09.195 --> 00:57:12.155
your day-to-day are all these opportunities for connection and being,

00:57:12.355 --> 00:57:17.055
and you're not trying to continually figure out what and why and how versus

00:57:17.055 --> 00:57:18.455
I just, I'm being in that moment.

00:57:18.555 --> 00:57:20.955
And I think that's a really powerful thing. Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:22.315 --> 00:57:27.095
Jessica said, do you think she sounds jealous that I would put myself in such

00:57:27.095 --> 00:57:30.575
a big group because she said that would scare her one time?

00:57:30.775 --> 00:57:37.375
Oh, right there. so yeah I feel like she's I've had a friend like this kind of where it's like.

00:57:38.818 --> 00:57:43.378
Any time that you do good for yourself, it means that it's like an attack.

00:57:43.678 --> 00:57:48.898
If I would do something good or positive, she would take that as a literal attack against her.

00:57:49.078 --> 00:57:52.778
And it was like, what is happening? I don't know. It's just normal in a friendship

00:57:52.778 --> 00:57:55.718
to be happy for the other person, I feel like.

00:57:55.858 --> 00:58:01.258
It just shows a lot of insecurity in the other person and they're just not secure

00:58:01.258 --> 00:58:05.958
enough with where they're at in their life that they want to keep you down. That right there.

00:58:06.678 --> 00:58:10.498
If you can go find the, on my Waking Up to Narcissim podcast,

00:58:10.658 --> 00:58:12.238
I did one on narcissistic family.

00:58:12.358 --> 00:58:15.178
No, the antagonistic attachment styles of the narcissist.

00:58:15.558 --> 00:58:18.698
And I'm not trying to say everybody's a narcissist, but this is based off of

00:58:18.698 --> 00:58:19.898
an article by Julie Hall.

00:58:20.078 --> 00:58:23.758
And it's called Understanding the Narcissist Antagonistic Attachment Style.

00:58:23.998 --> 00:58:28.318
This paragraph sets it up so perfectly. She says, securely attached humans approach

00:58:28.318 --> 00:58:31.698
relationships cooperatively. They work together to achieve shared goals.

00:58:31.718 --> 00:58:33.438
They seek and give empathetic validation.

00:58:33.998 --> 00:58:36.758
They share accurate and truthful information, and they express affection and

00:58:36.758 --> 00:58:38.998
vulnerability to build trust and intimacy in their relationships.

00:58:39.258 --> 00:58:42.418
Even if there's conflict or disagreement, they offer mutual support,

00:58:42.458 --> 00:58:43.938
and that's the foundation of the relationship.

00:58:44.198 --> 00:58:47.058
But things like respect and love are not at stake. She says,

00:58:47.138 --> 00:58:51.198
by contrast, the narcissistic personality attachment with others is antagonistic.

00:58:51.338 --> 00:58:55.358
It's a concept in biology that refers that a relationship in which one organism

00:58:55.358 --> 00:58:56.938
benefits at the expense of the other.

00:58:57.098 --> 00:59:01.278
So if one person is going to then go interact with a lot of friends,

00:59:01.318 --> 00:59:05.138
and this person doesn't think that they can do that then they need to pull that

00:59:05.138 --> 00:59:10.458
person back down into their their pit and so they just they don't have this

00:59:10.458 --> 00:59:15.258
wishing well for others and so they need you to be in it with them because then

00:59:15.258 --> 00:59:19.358
they can take the one-up position it does it does it's so sad.

00:59:20.156 --> 00:59:24.196
Because what happens is so many people that are insecure or unsure of themselves,

00:59:24.196 --> 00:59:28.836
they view life as this zero-sum game where they can only win if somebody else is losing. Yeah.

00:59:29.276 --> 00:59:31.276
Right? Yeah. And I think that part is so hard.

00:59:31.856 --> 00:59:35.496
And I often say that the emotionally immature or narcissistic person,

00:59:35.596 --> 00:59:39.176
they need another human to interact with to know that they even exist.

00:59:39.196 --> 00:59:42.876
And then when they get the other human with them, then they need to take the one-up position.

00:59:42.876 --> 00:59:48.216
So, when you try and stay connected to somebody that is immature and doesn't wish the best for you,

00:59:48.756 --> 00:59:51.836
then when you interact with them, most likely, I call it an attack surface,

00:59:51.876 --> 00:59:54.776
you're going to say things and they're going to now have an attack surface to

00:59:54.776 --> 00:59:59.116
tell you what is bad about what you said or how you don't understand them because of what you said.

00:59:59.196 --> 01:00:01.736
And they try to take that one-up position to make you feel down.

01:00:02.176 --> 01:00:06.416
And have you ever felt that, Sid? Yeah, and it can just, and then you're wasting

01:00:06.416 --> 01:00:09.276
emotional calories trying to figure out what is wrong with me or did I say that

01:00:09.276 --> 01:00:12.636
wrong or why are they mad at me versus just in a friendship where you're both

01:00:12.636 --> 01:00:14.676
getting to just be. Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:15.436 --> 01:00:19.316
Jessica said, why do you think people check themselves in their phone so much?

01:00:19.416 --> 01:00:21.096
It's so annoying, like hold their phone up.

01:00:21.276 --> 01:00:24.876
It's so annoying. I hung out with 30 people last night, but I felt so frozen

01:00:24.876 --> 01:00:29.536
and I felt like I couldn't engage until drama started from someone else in the baseball stands.

01:00:29.536 --> 01:00:32.676
My older sister said she would be scared but i think my younger sister

01:00:32.676 --> 01:00:35.356
i think my younger sister said she would

01:00:35.356 --> 01:00:38.276
be scared as well but starting with the phone yeah

01:00:38.276 --> 01:00:41.676
talk to me dude i don't know i it's like a comfort

01:00:41.676 --> 01:00:44.616
it's like a coping mechanism right because i do it sometimes if

01:00:44.616 --> 01:00:47.476
i like i'm walking outside and like i like

01:00:47.476 --> 01:00:50.396
start feeling like i'm being perceived and then i'll

01:00:50.396 --> 01:00:53.496
just like pretend like i'm looking at something my phone my screen's off

01:00:53.496 --> 01:00:57.176
yeah i used to when i was like really really anxious i used to do i would just

01:00:57.176 --> 01:01:00.376
pretend like i was on a fake phone call all the time okay i was gonna ask you

01:01:00.376 --> 01:01:04.256
no one's looking at you no would you talk out loud do you think they can see

01:01:04.256 --> 01:01:07.896
that my screen is not real from behind my hand in the from that car over there

01:01:07.896 --> 01:01:10.816
it's like they literally are not paying attention to you but they could though

01:01:10.816 --> 01:01:12.036
actually said they would tell me.

01:01:13.776 --> 01:01:16.716
Kidding but but it's i i just

01:01:16.716 --> 01:01:19.436
agree with you but i i do it too and it's annoying and like i

01:01:19.436 --> 01:01:22.216
for me when i hang out with people like i just don't i try

01:01:22.216 --> 01:01:24.976
not to just not be on my phone at all i really think it's

01:01:24.976 --> 01:01:27.836
like a it's like a basically an adult pacifier in

01:01:27.836 --> 01:01:30.756
a sense like this is soothing mechanism and and

01:01:30.756 --> 01:01:33.776
i will often say and i'm as guilty as can

01:01:33.776 --> 01:01:37.816
be as well i have one of my main core values is curiosity so i'm continually

01:01:37.816 --> 01:01:41.496
i like googling things like to know facts like to know what else has happened

01:01:41.496 --> 01:01:45.896
in this area like that's different it can be different than me sitting staring

01:01:45.896 --> 01:01:48.196
at a blank phone okay fair while

01:01:48.196 --> 01:01:51.256
everyone is living around me that's fair like that's a A little crazy.

01:01:51.496 --> 01:01:55.036
A little bit. A little bit. So what I think is the antidote to this,

01:01:55.096 --> 01:01:57.656
though, is to be curious about other people's experiences.

01:01:57.656 --> 01:02:00.816
And when I have somebody that comes to me and they say, I want to be better

01:02:00.816 --> 01:02:04.736
in social situations or to interact with other people, then I think they really

01:02:04.736 --> 01:02:09.296
need to be curious and ask other people questions because people love talking about themselves.

01:02:09.776 --> 01:02:13.316
And I think it would be much better than everyone just staring at their phone.

01:02:13.476 --> 01:02:15.436
But then I start sounding like such an old man. I'm going to yell,

01:02:15.536 --> 01:02:17.316
get off my lawn in a couple of seconds now.

01:02:18.887 --> 01:02:22.927
What? Oh, puzzle piece. Okay, good. That means we're at an hour. Let's keep going.

01:02:23.387 --> 01:02:27.947
Okay, and your mom is supposed to come here any time. Okay. Okay, and say hi.

01:02:28.507 --> 01:02:30.967
Jessica said... Oh, wait, yeah, so my younger sister is immature.

01:02:31.087 --> 01:02:35.187
It's horrible that she doesn't think that. Yeah, here's the irony.

01:02:35.767 --> 01:02:40.847
The emotionally immature person doesn't self-confront because they're emotionally immature.

01:02:41.347 --> 01:02:44.847
Because that would require them to take ownership or accountability.

01:02:45.307 --> 01:02:48.967
Because the childhood adaptation to that was blame shift, gaslight,

01:02:49.167 --> 01:02:53.247
deny. And so that kept them alive as a kid. So they're going to continue to do that now.

01:02:53.807 --> 01:02:59.827
Yeah, just know that if they're not going to mature, then you making them mad is you doing good stuff.

01:03:00.167 --> 01:03:03.687
So keep doing it. Yeah, okay. Betsy said, I can't do the fake phone call because

01:03:03.687 --> 01:03:05.567
I know my phone will ring and I'm caught.

01:03:05.727 --> 01:03:08.407
That would be funny. All it takes is one time for that to happen to somebody.

01:03:08.727 --> 01:03:12.307
And that really would be funny. Lucky for me, I don't receive phone calls.

01:03:12.547 --> 01:03:15.247
Well, when you even said you pretend to be on the phone, I was going to make

01:03:15.247 --> 01:03:20.007
a joke like you know how that works, right? The way like calls work and stuff. What do you mean? Hey.

01:03:20.367 --> 01:03:23.527
Oh, wait. That's like an old man thing. Because actually you're quite good.

01:03:23.667 --> 01:03:25.087
We FaceTimed for quite a while last night.

01:03:25.447 --> 01:03:28.747
Because my computer didn't work. This is fair. Oh, when you needed something.

01:03:29.947 --> 01:03:33.267
You didn't just call to ask me how I'm doing. How are you doing,

01:03:33.367 --> 01:03:35.987
by the way? I'm doing quite well. Thank you. Good. Yeah.

01:03:36.487 --> 01:03:38.987
Are you going to ask me how I'm doing? That's funny.

01:03:39.827 --> 01:03:43.667
Sid. Crazy. How are you doing? Not well after that. Okay.

01:03:43.927 --> 01:03:47.387
My bad. okay jessica said oh

01:03:47.387 --> 01:03:50.467
wait did you just read this part did let's see let's

01:03:50.467 --> 01:03:53.547
see if you've read it before i read it okay i've

01:03:53.547 --> 01:03:56.807
noticed that oh did i read this already and i'm like i really

01:03:56.807 --> 01:03:59.747
yes i did i did okay so

01:03:59.747 --> 01:04:02.507
move on my younger sister's image okay you

01:04:02.507 --> 01:04:05.527
did read that okay computers or commuters in

01:04:05.527 --> 01:04:08.447
old photo in old photographs were shown

01:04:08.447 --> 01:04:11.327
to be reading the paper oh that's funny

01:04:11.327 --> 01:04:14.287
is he saying like that was the phone yeah the

01:04:14.287 --> 01:04:17.047
olden days yeah i really that's what they would just okay you know what's okay

01:04:17.047 --> 01:04:20.207
what's funny about that though is that i've thought before that

01:04:20.207 --> 01:04:22.907
that's cool but i didn't think about it like oh they were doing the same

01:04:22.907 --> 01:04:25.827
thing um it is funny i do

01:04:25.827 --> 01:04:28.927
remember still when people would carry a paperback book along

01:04:28.927 --> 01:04:31.947
with them so if you're waiting in line you know i guess maybe some people do

01:04:31.947 --> 01:04:36.327
just read like i am just projecting that i would never read i have i read a

01:04:36.327 --> 01:04:39.667
couple pages of a book the other day what was it it was like this book about

01:04:39.667 --> 01:04:46.047
and like energy it It was like the science behind energy,

01:04:46.507 --> 01:04:49.367
like your aura and fields and stuff like that.

01:04:49.427 --> 01:04:53.847
It was so interesting, but it was like, oh my gosh, ADHD makes that so hard.

01:04:54.347 --> 01:04:58.307
I have to read one sentence like 12 times to even know what it says.

01:04:58.627 --> 01:05:01.587
Yeah. Does that frustrate you?

01:05:03.143 --> 01:05:07.023
Yes. I know. And I've been saying it because when I'm working with somebody

01:05:07.023 --> 01:05:11.023
that is struggling with something like that, because again, I'm a big old ADHD person as well.

01:05:11.223 --> 01:05:13.823
Acceptance is really helpful there as well, because people will start to beat

01:05:13.823 --> 01:05:17.043
themselves up or what's wrong with me and versus like, oh, check that out.

01:05:17.163 --> 01:05:20.203
This is the fourth time I'm reading this sentence like that as a thing.

01:05:20.503 --> 01:05:24.243
And it just like that, that talk about energy, that that shifts the what's wrong

01:05:24.243 --> 01:05:26.203
with me energy, which is always helpful.

01:05:27.303 --> 01:05:30.443
I love Jessica. She's just still ranting about this. She said,

01:05:30.603 --> 01:05:33.923
no, but they literally hold it up high in the air, like very high. Yeah.

01:05:34.783 --> 01:05:38.423
Not just in front of their face, but like high up in the air. No, you're so right.

01:05:38.803 --> 01:05:42.363
And like making the little kiss face. Okay. Any tips on how to have a better

01:05:42.363 --> 01:05:45.703
mind-body connection? I feel like I drift away a lot. Jessica asked.

01:05:45.883 --> 01:05:49.643
I was actually, I've been writing about this a lot. And there's a concept called

01:05:49.643 --> 01:05:52.203
embodiment, which I really like. Are you familiar with that, Sid?

01:05:53.063 --> 01:05:56.963
Embodiment? Embodiment? No. What it really is, is we're so much in our head

01:05:56.963 --> 01:06:01.843
that then embodiment is being able to go on a walk or it is more about some

01:06:01.843 --> 01:06:05.623
deep breathing and it's learning to just really feel your body.

01:06:06.103 --> 01:06:10.303
And like body scans and meditation are a good part of that because we just,

01:06:10.463 --> 01:06:13.163
we think and think and a lot of times we try to think our way out of thinking

01:06:13.163 --> 01:06:15.283
problems, which only adds to more of the stress.

01:06:15.583 --> 01:06:18.863
And I think this is where it's important to recognize. So, I've got a couple

01:06:18.863 --> 01:06:23.063
of episodes on the Waking Up to Narcissim podcast about the amygdala hijack.

01:06:23.063 --> 01:06:26.263
You know, your amygdala is what people call the lizard brain or the critter

01:06:26.263 --> 01:06:27.643
brain or the Neanderthal brain.

01:06:27.743 --> 01:06:31.243
And that's where the fight and flight and fawn and freeze, all that comes from.

01:06:31.403 --> 01:06:35.643
And so when you can really understand, I think the science behind it is the

01:06:35.643 --> 01:06:40.743
more that you worry and stress and overthink, your heart rate elevates and it

01:06:40.743 --> 01:06:43.003
starts to shut down your prefrontal cortex.

01:06:43.003 --> 01:06:46.743
And that's the part where you can make logical decisions and you'll get in your amygdala.

01:06:47.344 --> 01:06:50.004
At a certain point, your heart rate elevates so much. You're so stressed.

01:06:50.144 --> 01:06:53.684
You're so anxious that the amygdala takes over. And now you can't even access

01:06:53.684 --> 01:06:55.204
the logical part of your brain.

01:06:55.904 --> 01:06:59.444
So you can turn to some good old breathing, but at that point your amygdala

01:06:59.444 --> 01:07:02.544
is already hijacked. So one of the best things you can do is go for a walk.

01:07:02.864 --> 01:07:09.064
It's being able to go outside and breathe in fresh air and feel your legs, your feet on the ground.

01:07:09.264 --> 01:07:12.404
And so that, and I think that's how to have a better mind body connection.

01:07:12.604 --> 01:07:16.504
I feel like I drift away a lot is just come back into the present and don't

01:07:16.504 --> 01:07:20.884
try necessarily to think your way into the present but just be what can i feel

01:07:20.884 --> 01:07:25.164
what can i smell what can i touch i never can remember what all five are.

01:07:27.224 --> 01:07:31.604
Think no what can i what am i what can i what am i seeing what am i smelling what am i hearing,

01:07:33.444 --> 01:07:39.764
what can i dance to okay i don't know i have i like what you're saying i'm trying

01:07:39.764 --> 01:07:43.364
to find I had like a good quote that I saw the other day for that.

01:07:43.904 --> 01:07:48.144
I don't remember what it was. It was something about like, you're like, why are you laughing?

01:07:48.424 --> 01:07:50.024
Because that was just funny. I thought you were going to end it there.

01:07:50.124 --> 01:07:52.644
I saw this great quote. I don't remember what it was. Next question.

01:07:53.324 --> 01:07:57.684
Well, now I'm going to do that. Okay. Thank you. Oh, okay.

01:07:59.144 --> 01:08:03.624
Silence. Okay. More questions. Sit in it. You do something. You do.

01:08:05.244 --> 01:08:09.544
Okay. I will read another quote. Carl Rogers, the famous psychologist,

01:08:09.844 --> 01:08:14.164
the curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change.

01:08:14.824 --> 01:08:17.284
I really like that one a lot. Yeah, that's like we were talking about,

01:08:17.424 --> 01:08:19.024
you have to be honest with yourself.

01:08:19.084 --> 01:08:21.564
You have to love yourself enough to be so honest with yourself.

01:08:21.784 --> 01:08:23.504
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's good.

01:08:23.864 --> 01:08:27.084
Okay, now I've got my random quotes and thoughts page up. And so I just want

01:08:27.084 --> 01:08:27.864
to run through all of them.

01:08:28.144 --> 01:08:30.784
The immortal words of Art Garfunkel from Simon and Garfunkel,

01:08:30.984 --> 01:08:34.784
all lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

01:08:35.264 --> 01:08:37.864
That's in a song. song lyrics and it was what we were talking about earlier

01:08:37.864 --> 01:08:42.084
with confirmation bias, our perception is our reality, where somebody hears

01:08:42.084 --> 01:08:44.184
the things that they want to hear and they disregard the rest.

01:08:44.364 --> 01:08:46.704
Yeah, yeah. So, we're taking things in through our own filter.

01:08:48.271 --> 01:08:51.751
I was going to say something, but I didn't say it. Okay.

01:08:52.731 --> 01:08:58.031
That is good live Q&As. I hope that one makes the cut into the...

01:08:58.031 --> 01:08:59.871
I think this will be a good clip. Okay.

01:09:00.471 --> 01:09:03.851
This one's going big. Okay. Jennifer says, I feel like I can't hold conversations

01:09:03.851 --> 01:09:05.511
like where to start and how to get better.

01:09:05.711 --> 01:09:09.871
This is one that comes up often. I was talking to a client the other day who

01:09:09.871 --> 01:09:14.771
said, and he wants to be more engaged with his partner, but he was saying that,

01:09:14.931 --> 01:09:18.251
but what do you do when you don't care about what they're talking about?

01:09:18.271 --> 01:09:21.071
Talking about what do you what do you say that I know and

01:09:21.071 --> 01:09:24.931
it's I was grateful that he asked the question yeah well

01:09:24.931 --> 01:09:28.051
I feel like if you care and love the person deeply enough

01:09:28.051 --> 01:09:33.011
like it's not that you like that specific thing you like like the light in their

01:09:33.011 --> 01:09:36.511
eyes when they're talking about something that they love yes I mean yeah that's

01:09:36.511 --> 01:09:39.771
what you're like in love with you don't have to like actually love the thing

01:09:39.771 --> 01:09:43.911
just like and yeah it's so good and so then and I'll add I'll yes understand

01:09:43.911 --> 01:09:46.951
that and say what I shared with him was,

01:09:47.111 --> 01:09:50.851
yeah, you like this person and they like that thing or it means something to them.

01:09:51.091 --> 01:09:54.991
So, that's your opportunity to get out of your own ego and it isn't about you

01:09:54.991 --> 01:09:56.951
and now you be curious about them.

01:09:57.091 --> 01:10:00.351
And I did an episode, go find this on the virtual couch a couple of weeks ago

01:10:00.351 --> 01:10:03.391
about genuine curiosity because a lot of us just aren't curious.

01:10:03.511 --> 01:10:06.731
We like to tell others what they are doing or what they must be thinking or

01:10:06.731 --> 01:10:07.471
what they must be feeling.

01:10:07.651 --> 01:10:11.311
But genuine curiosity, you can ask a question because you're trying to check a box.

01:10:11.531 --> 01:10:14.011
Not a big fan of that one. Or a lot of people ask questions.

01:10:14.191 --> 01:10:17.271
They're like, no, I really want to know so that I can tell you how dumb you are at some point.

01:10:17.571 --> 01:10:20.771
Or genuine curiosity. I really want to know and understand you.

01:10:21.131 --> 01:10:24.771
And that's a whole different level because you will feel these reactions come

01:10:24.771 --> 01:10:28.691
up where you want to tell them, but that's not, but why do you think that?

01:10:28.811 --> 01:10:32.311
Or, but I don't believe that. And that's, so it takes work to be genuinely curious.

01:10:32.311 --> 01:10:35.091
So if you care about the person, there's your marching orders right there.

01:10:35.391 --> 01:10:38.771
Yeah. I feel like that's also like a differentiation moment where it's,

01:10:38.771 --> 01:10:41.291
You don't have to love the same thing. Yeah.

01:10:41.971 --> 01:10:46.511
And it's like, I feel like to love someone is to like, like love seeing them

01:10:46.511 --> 01:10:51.371
do exactly whatever that they want to do. Like not what I want to do.

01:10:51.631 --> 01:10:55.891
Okay. No, no. So that, that one, I'm, that's my current, a little bit of my

01:10:55.891 --> 01:11:00.751
current fixation is just, if you really step back, it's kind of silly that people

01:11:00.751 --> 01:11:03.971
are just continually telling them what, well, what I think you mean is this

01:11:03.971 --> 01:11:05.651
versus, Hey, tell me more about what you mean,

01:11:06.271 --> 01:11:08.671
you know? And that's supposed to be love. Come on.

01:11:08.971 --> 01:11:13.651
Okay. Come on. Hey, 101 Music's here, and I know that they, I believe 101 Music's

01:11:13.651 --> 01:11:15.551
the one that we'll typically ask about a ghost story.

01:11:15.671 --> 01:11:20.371
101 Music, you should have been here an hour and change ago when Sydney made a your mom joke to me.

01:11:21.511 --> 01:11:26.211
Now, granted, that is her grandmother, but my mother did just recently pass away.

01:11:26.511 --> 01:11:30.271
So we may have a ghost story in the coming weeks. Don't say that.

01:11:30.271 --> 01:11:32.151
No, I'm kidding. I know that. You know I'm kidding.

01:11:32.511 --> 01:11:36.211
I'm scared now. Oh, no. We'll burn some sage and things like that.

01:11:36.651 --> 01:11:37.431
That's the thing, right?

01:11:38.450 --> 01:11:41.650
Yes, because age is a thing. Okay, but no, the reason I'm saying that,

01:11:41.710 --> 01:11:45.570
do you remember how embarrassed I was when I told Sydney that I had had a couple

01:11:45.570 --> 01:11:49.550
in here and I had a long session and they were just, they were fired up and

01:11:49.550 --> 01:11:52.030
it was really, I said, man, ending the day with that kind of energy.

01:11:52.210 --> 01:11:54.990
And Syd said, hey, I'll come in tonight because Sydney will come into my office

01:11:54.990 --> 01:11:59.990
at night and do the editing for clips and stuff. And she came in and she said, I'll burn sage.

01:12:00.170 --> 01:12:03.570
So I came in the next morning and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I can smell it.

01:12:03.670 --> 01:12:04.770
And she really did great.

01:12:04.890 --> 01:12:07.350
And the whole day, okay, this goes into what we've talked about,

01:12:07.390 --> 01:12:08.290
perception is your reality.

01:12:08.450 --> 01:12:11.510
The whole day I was like, oh my gosh, this sage stuff really works.

01:12:11.570 --> 01:12:14.670
I go to Sid and I'm like, Sid, sage again tonight. And she's like,

01:12:14.750 --> 01:12:15.770
oh, I forgot to do it last night.

01:12:16.770 --> 01:12:19.670
And you know what I feel like that really like showed you though,

01:12:19.790 --> 01:12:21.830
is just like the power of your own energy.

01:12:22.210 --> 01:12:25.570
For real. It's like you have the ability to bring that into a,

01:12:25.610 --> 01:12:26.890
you can walk into. Oh, your presence.

01:12:27.110 --> 01:12:31.270
Yeah. Every day you can do that. Yeah. But I also need a sage. Yeah.

01:12:31.730 --> 01:12:35.370
By the way, if you look to your left, Sid, do you see all the new candles I got? Oh.

01:12:36.150 --> 01:12:38.730
Uh-huh. i don't know if they're the kind you like what do

01:12:38.730 --> 01:12:41.990
i like we like complete opposite yeah i like citrusy stuff

01:12:41.990 --> 01:12:45.750
i like like sweet like vanilla cupcake and then my dad will literally get a

01:12:45.750 --> 01:12:53.070
candle that says lake lake i do have one it's not it says lakeside morning is

01:12:53.070 --> 01:12:57.850
what it is it's not just a lake like like it smells like moss no it does not

01:12:57.850 --> 01:13:00.190
smell like moss it smells like a crisp.

01:13:00.630 --> 01:13:03.250
Crabs like literally okay crabs don't live in

01:13:03.250 --> 01:13:05.970
the lake maybe they do i don't even know jennifer just get

01:13:05.970 --> 01:13:09.150
curious yes exactly that's exactly correct all

01:13:09.150 --> 01:13:11.870
right sid should we uh should we wrap things up it's a

01:13:11.870 --> 01:13:15.050
blast wait now are we gonna be back tomorrow night i think

01:13:15.050 --> 01:13:18.330
so okay i'm i mean i'm game if you are all right

01:13:18.330 --> 01:13:21.270
hey this was wonderful everybody saturday afternoons are good

01:13:21.270 --> 01:13:24.110
so will you come back again sid on a saturday afternoon

01:13:24.110 --> 01:13:26.850
okay and then a sunday night and then a monday morning

01:13:26.850 --> 01:13:29.890
and then a tuesday midday no no i'm just kidding rebecca

01:13:29.890 --> 01:13:33.530
we love you too and we will be back tomorrow night um

01:13:33.530 --> 01:13:36.510
so and again go follow us

01:13:36.510 --> 01:13:39.590
and do this but no go the waking up the narcissism podcast

01:13:39.590 --> 01:13:42.950
and the virtual couch podcast i'm

01:13:42.950 --> 01:13:45.830
gonna post a youtube video right after this you are okay let's

01:13:45.830 --> 01:13:48.570
do it of like a live from a while ago okay oh let's see

01:13:48.570 --> 01:13:52.570
what time tomorrow night what time you want to do it should we do 7 30

01:13:52.570 --> 01:13:56.910
sure pacific time but maybe it will be 8 because i'm late to everything but

01:13:56.910 --> 01:13:59.830
i'm really gonna try yeah today was good because we have the whole I'll just

01:13:59.830 --> 01:14:02.870
leave the mic set up because I don't have clients tomorrow yeah that's fine

01:14:02.870 --> 01:14:07.030
yeah all right real nerd talk to you later good night Jennifer thank you Betsy

01:14:07.030 --> 01:14:09.430
see you tomorrow Rebecca love you too bye everybody.