WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:02.417 Welcome to TechHackLive. Have fun interacting with your viewers in real time. 00:00:02.857 --> 00:00:04.357 Creators must be 18 or older to go live. 00:00:04.797 --> 00:00:07.137 Have you ever seen a kid do an affair? I feel like I have. Same. 00:00:07.417 --> 00:00:10.037 So maybe they pretend they're older or whatever. 00:00:10.177 --> 00:00:11.997 I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, author, speaker, 00:00:12.097 --> 00:00:15.437 and podcast host. Ask me questions about relationships, mental health, narcissism, and more. 00:00:16.757 --> 00:00:22.177 And you, they're notifying viewers. Okay, the first one that shows up gets a welcome. 00:00:23.177 --> 00:00:25.857 Right there. Hey, the white man. 996. Welcome. Welcome aboard. 00:00:26.037 --> 00:00:29.217 I almost said I was going to give away stuff, but then that would be a lot of 00:00:29.217 --> 00:00:31.017 work. to give away things, right? 00:00:31.737 --> 00:00:33.617 Okay, hey, welcome everybody. I am Tony. 00:00:34.857 --> 00:00:38.697 I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I used to have this whole thing down. 00:00:38.797 --> 00:00:40.757 A certified mindful habit, coach, writer, speaker, husband, father, 00:00:40.897 --> 00:00:45.357 four, ultramarathon runner, and creator of the Path Back, an online recovery 00:00:45.357 --> 00:00:48.357 program that is helping people become their best selves and blah, blah, blah. 00:00:48.537 --> 00:00:50.877 And then I got to the point where I didn't care anymore about saying all that 00:00:50.877 --> 00:00:54.057 stuff. And that is where we are today. Welcome. I should have brought more Reese's in here. 00:00:54.857 --> 00:00:57.897 So Mackie and I are answering your questions tonight. Real live marriage and 00:00:57.897 --> 00:01:00.317 family therapist, But I am not providing therapy. 00:01:00.697 --> 00:01:03.917 I am providing a therapeutic... No, I'm just giving you advice. 00:01:04.457 --> 00:01:07.917 Just your thoughts. Exactly. Mackie and I host a podcast called The Mind, 00:01:07.997 --> 00:01:13.197 The Mirror, and Me, where we talk about all kinds of stuff. I got the virtual couch. 00:01:13.457 --> 00:01:16.097 When I'm up here and you're back there, my head looks huge and yours looks tiny. 00:01:16.117 --> 00:01:18.197 Waking up with narcissism? Wait, we do this thing. Now my head's big. 00:01:18.597 --> 00:01:23.077 I have a very large head. Like when I try to wear a hat, if I wear a fitted hat, it doesn't fit. 00:01:23.557 --> 00:01:26.537 Did you know that? No, it's kind of... It's crazy. It really is. 00:01:26.717 --> 00:01:29.497 Yeah. not not my not my finest trait i gotta 00:01:29.497 --> 00:01:32.157 be honest all right hey everybody lena what's going on how are 00:01:32.157 --> 00:01:35.497 you get the number one gifter badge thank you for gifting i 00:01:35.497 --> 00:01:39.797 never asked for the gifts but i don't know how it works either but are you do 00:01:39.797 --> 00:01:43.197 you know how somebody can throw a like a heart on your head or my head have 00:01:43.197 --> 00:01:46.857 you ever done that i've never done it to someone okay and sometimes they'll 00:01:46.857 --> 00:01:49.357 put like the mustache or a cowboy hat or anything like that so feel free to 00:01:49.357 --> 00:01:53.617 do that that's fun boo he's married According to my mother. Yeah. This is my daughter. 00:01:54.017 --> 00:01:57.757 Yeah. Although, if what you're saying is, oh my gosh, that guy looks so... 00:01:57.757 --> 00:02:01.857 There it is, right there. Lena, thank you. Yeah. But you're probably saying, he looks so young. 00:02:02.874 --> 00:02:06.454 That's probably what they're saying, right? Yeah. Yeah. But we are here to answer 00:02:06.454 --> 00:02:10.494 any of your questions about anything relationship-wise. I've got an opening topic tonight. 00:02:10.914 --> 00:02:13.414 Are you ready? Yeah. What do you know about the shadow self? 00:02:13.574 --> 00:02:17.054 Like, have you ever heard of that? No, I actually haven't ever in my world. Ever for real? Ever. 00:02:17.414 --> 00:02:22.014 At all? Shadow self? The shadow self? A famous psychologist back in the day, Carl Jung. 00:02:22.294 --> 00:02:25.294 Lena loves your lives. Thank you, Lena. We appreciate you being here. 00:02:25.414 --> 00:02:26.334 We're so excited about this. 00:02:26.494 --> 00:02:29.734 But the shadow self, Carl Jung, he coined the term. 00:02:29.734 --> 00:02:33.014 And it's a really fascinating concept because what 00:02:33.014 --> 00:02:36.014 your shadow self is is it's like you're carrying 00:02:36.014 --> 00:02:38.954 around a backpack all the time and you've just got all of these parts 00:02:38.954 --> 00:02:41.714 and pieces but the stuff that's your shadow are the 00:02:41.714 --> 00:02:44.994 things that you felt like were never acceptable when you were growing up and 00:02:44.994 --> 00:02:47.734 they're in your back yeah like you're carrying they're part of who you are and 00:02:47.734 --> 00:02:52.574 we often stuff our shadow selves down they're deep within within us but you 00:02:52.574 --> 00:02:56.034 still are a sum of all of your parts if you grew up and you weren't allowed 00:02:56.034 --> 00:03:00.114 to be angry for example then you might shove that down as your shadow. 00:03:00.614 --> 00:03:04.254 And then the light side of that is you might be overly accommodating or a people 00:03:04.254 --> 00:03:05.474 pleaser or that sort of thing. 00:03:05.694 --> 00:03:08.694 So you have this shadow side of you that you just, you show down. 00:03:09.014 --> 00:03:12.794 Amanda, you've helped me so much. Thank you for everything. Amanda, thanks for being here. 00:03:13.014 --> 00:03:15.734 And so ask any questions that you have tonight. I'm just doing a little bit 00:03:15.734 --> 00:03:17.934 of a little tap dance, a little warm up with the shadow self. 00:03:18.174 --> 00:03:20.234 Tap dance? Can you tap dance? No. You know, it's funny though. 00:03:20.334 --> 00:03:23.054 When I was a kid, I would watch, I don't even know, I don't even know what I'd 00:03:23.054 --> 00:03:24.354 be watching where somebody would tap dance. 00:03:24.494 --> 00:03:27.514 And so that was the one thing because i can't dance we talked about this the other night there 00:03:27.514 --> 00:03:30.494 are no dancing genes in our family right i never was 00:03:30.494 --> 00:03:33.314 taught because you don't know but i could do something where i would uh i 00:03:33.314 --> 00:03:36.014 don't know pretend i was tap dancing and in my mind i thought oh i'd probably be pretty 00:03:36.014 --> 00:03:40.034 good at this if i had tap shoes if you had tap shoes then you could dance yeah 00:03:40.034 --> 00:03:43.734 one time i tried rubber banding spoons on the bottom of my shoes i had tap shoes 00:03:43.734 --> 00:03:48.274 at one point when i was a kid you think you did do tap dance yeah but so the 00:03:48.274 --> 00:03:50.894 shadow stuff so let me give you an example of this here's what i think is interesting 00:03:50.894 --> 00:03:53.394 so have you ever met somebody that just really bothers you honestly. 00:03:54.814 --> 00:03:58.674 How do you integrate your shadow self yeah okay we'll talk about that that's 00:03:58.674 --> 00:04:02.074 a great question have you ever met somebody that just drives you crazy yes, 00:04:02.694 --> 00:04:07.254 probably more often than not so what if what they're displaying is something 00:04:07.254 --> 00:04:12.914 that you have tucked down deep within your it is part of your shadow self so 00:04:12.914 --> 00:04:16.074 let's say that you're at a meeting at work and there's a co-worker and they're 00:04:16.074 --> 00:04:21.514 just interrupting and they're making a lot of comments and you're thinking this guy needs to just chill, 00:04:22.464 --> 00:04:27.064 Something like that. Okay. So what the shadow self can be is that you may feel 00:04:27.064 --> 00:04:30.284 like, well, I was never told that I can just blurt out my opinion. 00:04:30.464 --> 00:04:35.564 So I hate people because... It's because it's a little bit of that holding up a mirror to ourselves. 00:04:35.764 --> 00:04:39.144 So let's say it's showing you the things that you don't know or that you maybe 00:04:39.144 --> 00:04:43.384 subconsciously wish that you could do, but then you've never been given permission 00:04:43.384 --> 00:04:45.844 to do that. Like tap dance? No. 00:04:46.804 --> 00:04:50.324 Yes. If someone at work, even though you're an esthetician, 00:04:50.504 --> 00:04:53.284 is tap dance, then that could so i wrote down some 00:04:53.284 --> 00:04:56.844 examples of this that i think will let me tell you so in family relationships so 00:04:56.844 --> 00:04:59.704 imagine that you have a sibling which you have three of them yeah who 00:04:59.704 --> 00:05:02.464 just effortlessly ask mom and i for help 00:05:02.464 --> 00:05:05.344 and they have no problem doing it uh whether it's like child 00:05:05.344 --> 00:05:08.064 care or money or emotional support and then 00:05:08.064 --> 00:05:11.284 you may find yourself feeling judgmental about that sibling 00:05:11.284 --> 00:05:14.224 and i don't know if that one no no probably 00:05:14.224 --> 00:05:16.904 not but if any of you have ever felt that so if you have a sibling that you 00:05:16.904 --> 00:05:19.824 feel like is maybe annoying and okay and 00:05:19.824 --> 00:05:22.664 we'll get to lena here too i can't express my opinions or feelings with my 00:05:22.664 --> 00:05:25.704 family without conflict so that would be really really 00:05:25.704 --> 00:05:28.464 hard right hey hannah so that but that would 00:05:28.464 --> 00:05:31.484 be hard there lena because if you feel like you can't express those feelings without 00:05:31.484 --> 00:05:34.284 conflict then what the the argument for 00:05:34.284 --> 00:05:38.004 your shadow might be is now you're going to tuck that away and then if you are 00:05:38.004 --> 00:05:41.184 in an environment and you feel like you can't express your emotions but other 00:05:41.184 --> 00:05:44.404 people are then that would be where that is that would be part of your shadow 00:05:44.404 --> 00:05:47.144 self because it's something that you weren't allowed to do and you're watching 00:05:47.144 --> 00:05:50.324 other people do it and it might seem like well that's not fair that they can 00:05:50.324 --> 00:05:52.904 do that. Let's go romantic relationships. Okay. 00:05:53.364 --> 00:05:56.124 Think about somebody who feels intense irritation if their partner expresses 00:05:56.124 --> 00:06:00.044 sadness or vulnerability. And you might think, why can't they just handle their stuff? 00:06:00.744 --> 00:06:03.944 Or you might be the one that's in a relationship and you are expressing vulnerability 00:06:03.944 --> 00:06:06.964 and the other person might be thinking, why can't you just, why don't you just 00:06:06.964 --> 00:06:10.544 take care of that yourself and not really worry about that? Does that make sense? 00:06:11.877 --> 00:06:15.757 It makes sense. I just don't. Well, because that reaction, it often points to 00:06:15.757 --> 00:06:20.477 like your own inability to express or to just be tough and handle things. 00:06:20.677 --> 00:06:24.737 Because what you're seeing in that other person is something that you feel like 00:06:24.737 --> 00:06:27.777 is impossible for you to maybe embrace. 00:06:29.177 --> 00:06:33.537 Yeah, I get that part. That's what it is. Oh, yeah. Okay. 00:06:33.937 --> 00:06:36.737 Got it. Okay. Or if somebody, if you're at a party, 00:06:36.897 --> 00:06:38.157 and I think about this, if somebody's 00:06:38.157 --> 00:06:40.617 loud or they're being the center of attention and that annoys you, 00:06:40.617 --> 00:06:43.697 is it because you feel like you you feel insecure 00:06:43.697 --> 00:06:46.657 or you wish you could be the center of attention so that's 00:06:46.657 --> 00:06:49.697 what it's talking about can it also just be though that you think someone's annoying 00:06:49.697 --> 00:06:52.457 yes yes it can and and it 00:06:52.457 --> 00:06:56.497 has nothing to do with your shadow whatsoever well what if it's like a crappy 00:06:56.497 --> 00:07:00.777 person doing crappy things that's true i mean because and so here's when who 00:07:00.777 --> 00:07:04.597 was it was it lena saying how do you integrate your shadow yeah so when you 00:07:04.597 --> 00:07:08.657 notice that that an emotional reaction seems bigger than the situation warrants 00:07:08.657 --> 00:07:11.817 that's usually the first clue that you're dealing along with the shadow trigger. Yeah. 00:07:12.117 --> 00:07:15.117 So, so if it's something that you're just, you just think that person's annoying, 00:07:15.377 --> 00:07:16.217 then yeah, they can be annoying. 00:07:17.197 --> 00:07:20.317 But that's a, but if you say, or you have to ask yourself, okay, 00:07:20.337 --> 00:07:23.337 if I'm being completely honest, is there a part of me that wishes I could be 00:07:23.337 --> 00:07:25.557 more like that? Yeah. No, I get that. Yeah. 00:07:25.957 --> 00:07:28.357 And that's the, and that's, I think where you start seeing our own emotional 00:07:28.357 --> 00:07:32.957 immaturity. So if you watch somebody and they're doing something that you wish 00:07:32.957 --> 00:07:37.237 that you could do, but you're afraid to admit that, man, I wish I had that talent or that skill. Yeah. 00:07:37.477 --> 00:07:40.177 Then, and when you make fun of that, or then that can be what's coming from 00:07:40.177 --> 00:07:43.397 your shadow okay let's get to the questions okay okay the goat 00:07:43.397 --> 00:07:46.157 in jurassic park oh go to from jurassic park 00:07:46.157 --> 00:07:48.797 has been here before welcome back the goat in jurassic park because that 00:07:48.797 --> 00:07:51.877 is a very funny name thoughts on noticing patterns of 00:07:51.877 --> 00:07:54.877 emotional regression around your parents yeah that's and 00:07:54.877 --> 00:07:59.397 i wonder the goat in jurassic park if you're open to maybe sharing an age range 00:07:59.397 --> 00:08:03.417 even of where what because this is one that i think is really fascinating so 00:08:03.417 --> 00:08:06.897 we're supposed to what they are yeah what they are not the parents but yeah 00:08:06.897 --> 00:08:10.797 great point and i'm i really mean that because you're supposed to become more 00:08:10.797 --> 00:08:12.077 differentiated from your parent. 00:08:12.237 --> 00:08:15.877 And if you remember what the concept of differentiation is, is it means that 00:08:15.877 --> 00:08:19.477 you are starting to, as you grow older, you want to maintain a connection with 00:08:19.477 --> 00:08:22.937 others while developing your own sense of self or your autonomy. 00:08:23.137 --> 00:08:26.037 So it seems like a little bit of a paradox that I'm going to grow closer to 00:08:26.037 --> 00:08:29.777 this person, but also hold on to myself, my own sense of self. 00:08:30.077 --> 00:08:35.157 And so when you have parents that are not allowing you to become differentiated, 00:08:35.277 --> 00:08:38.797 where they aren't being curious about your experience, or when you share your 00:08:38.797 --> 00:08:42.717 experience, they do a lot of judgment or saying, I wouldn't do that if I were 00:08:42.717 --> 00:08:44.557 you, or that doesn't seem very smart to me. 00:08:44.977 --> 00:08:48.237 Then they're holding you back from becoming more differentiated. 00:08:48.397 --> 00:08:51.717 And so a lot of times what your own body keeps the score, that vibe will do 00:08:51.717 --> 00:08:55.977 is you'll start to play small because over time, it's like, why am I trying 00:08:55.977 --> 00:09:00.037 to express my hopes and my dreams with this person who is just continuing to 00:09:00.037 --> 00:09:02.517 tell me I wouldn't do that? That's not a very smart thing. 00:09:03.604 --> 00:09:06.704 What if they won't talk to you at all when you are your own person? 00:09:06.884 --> 00:09:08.224 That's a them issue, Josh. 00:09:08.504 --> 00:09:11.004 That's a great question. And when I say that's a them issue. 00:09:11.364 --> 00:09:16.984 I'm sounding aggressive. I am a little bit. Because when you are putting yourself 00:09:16.984 --> 00:09:19.064 out there, talking about how you think, feel. 00:09:19.224 --> 00:09:20.124 If you're doing your side of it, 00:09:20.284 --> 00:09:25.204 then it is a them issue if they're not contributing in any positive way. 00:09:25.304 --> 00:09:29.124 Well, and I think that's a great question, the way you frame that. 00:09:29.444 --> 00:09:33.844 Because that is what differentiation is. every opportunity when you interact 00:09:33.844 --> 00:09:37.144 with somebody is ultimately an opportunity for you to grow, 00:09:37.424 --> 00:09:41.304 you to self-confront and grow, because you might be learning in that situation 00:09:41.304 --> 00:09:46.484 that these are not people that I can feel safe opening up to because they're 00:09:46.484 --> 00:09:49.684 not curious about my situation and they're not interested. 00:09:50.004 --> 00:09:54.384 And maybe they're continuing to look on their phones or they're just immediately making it about them. 00:09:54.524 --> 00:09:58.744 Then you're learning in that interaction that this is not somebody that I feel safe talking to. 00:09:59.004 --> 00:10:01.704 Which sucks if it's your parents that are making me feel that way, 00:10:01.704 --> 00:10:04.584 but it's like they are also people and sometimes and yeah 00:10:04.584 --> 00:10:07.484 is that okay daniel i need to set better boundaries with my parents 00:10:07.484 --> 00:10:10.264 that i'm living with and probably that is 00:10:10.264 --> 00:10:14.424 tricky and remember too daniel boundary versus ultimatum ultimatum is hey look 00:10:14.424 --> 00:10:18.124 you guys need to hear me you guys need to be more supportive that's an ultimatum 00:10:18.124 --> 00:10:21.664 and that's where if your parents bless their hearts are a little bit more emotionally 00:10:21.664 --> 00:10:26.044 immature you've just given them some some buttons to push oh really well you 00:10:26.044 --> 00:10:28.884 won't tell me or if you're living under this roof you need to listen to us or 00:10:28.884 --> 00:10:29.984 there's all those kind of things. 00:10:30.204 --> 00:10:35.384 The boundary is if they are not being curious or if they are not willing to 00:10:35.384 --> 00:10:39.884 listen or if they, then I, then I will not continue to share with them or then 00:10:39.884 --> 00:10:43.764 I will spend more time outside or at my friend's house. Yeah. 00:10:44.444 --> 00:10:48.324 Um, okay. Can we get into Lucy's? Yeah. Lucy. Do you guys have an opinion on 00:10:48.324 --> 00:10:50.904 the let them theory? Yeah. I do. Do you know that one? Yeah. Yeah. 00:10:51.124 --> 00:10:53.924 Mel Robbins. I have the book in my audible and I have a funny story about that, 00:10:53.944 --> 00:10:57.884 but you go first. What do you think about it? I think. 00:11:01.300 --> 00:11:04.420 I have lots of thoughts. Do you really? I don't know if we've talked about this. 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:09.300 No, I think the first time, because the most I've seen is just like clips from TikTok. 00:11:09.620 --> 00:11:17.120 Like that's where I heard it first. Yeah. Like from the podcast and stuff of that and whatever. 00:11:17.420 --> 00:11:21.080 But I think overall I like it and I think it's a good thing. Yeah. 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:27.700 Because there's power in just not letting what other people are doing affect 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:29.660 you or have an effect on you. Yeah. 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:33.100 And so I think that they're, I'm trying to think of examples that like, that's, I'm like. 00:11:34.040 --> 00:11:37.120 We'll get to them because I. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I, but I do think overall 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:42.720 it's a great thing because it's not fair to you, to, to anyone to be negatively 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.680 affected by other people's actions, you know? 00:11:44.800 --> 00:11:48.080 So it's like, and it's not worth the fight of, that's what I mean, 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:51.080 like with an example, like if someone is doing something to you. Yeah. 00:11:51.560 --> 00:11:56.900 Yes. That's where I go with that too. It's not worth your energy to deal with that. Yeah. 00:11:57.440 --> 00:11:59.420 Would it be a good thing if you do it to your partner? 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:06.480 See though that's where i think i'd say no but maybe i'm well i feel like it 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:10.140 depends it depends on what we're talking about because if your partner's being 00:12:10.140 --> 00:12:13.820 mean to you don't just let them that's not the that's not what it is like that's 00:12:13.820 --> 00:12:16.060 so it's like i feel like there's a fine line there. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.760 But see i can't think of an example but i'm sure there are things within a relationship 00:12:21.760 --> 00:12:26.120 where it's okay to let them yeah so like be their own person and do their thing 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.600 and not let it affect you or your relationship, but don't let them be mean to you. 00:12:31.476 --> 00:12:35.856 And that's where I step in with my opinion. The first, what I think is, maybe it's funny to me, 00:12:36.016 --> 00:12:39.676 story is as a licensed marriage and family therapist and creating some content 00:12:39.676 --> 00:12:42.996 and podcasts and that sort of thing, I have found myself being emotionally immature 00:12:42.996 --> 00:12:46.976 and somewhat jealous of someone like Mel Robbins, who is everywhere. 00:12:47.256 --> 00:12:50.356 But then I realized, okay, that's my immaturity. And the more that I started 00:12:50.356 --> 00:12:53.076 to listen to her content, one of the first things I learned from her that I 00:12:53.076 --> 00:12:57.636 really liked was the countdown, the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, when I'd be scrolling on social media. 00:12:57.636 --> 00:13:01.616 And I would just, sometimes it's wild to just think, even though I'm an adult, 00:13:01.676 --> 00:13:04.516 I'm a therapist, I'm 55, I'm whatever. 00:13:04.676 --> 00:13:06.856 And I just am mindlessly scrolling, scrolling. 00:13:07.136 --> 00:13:09.976 And I heard her talk about the countdown, five, four, three, 00:13:10.096 --> 00:13:12.396 two, one. And that works for me every time. So that's brilliant. 00:13:12.896 --> 00:13:17.056 And then the let them theory, I really like it because it is a form of becoming 00:13:17.056 --> 00:13:18.916 differentiated, that that's a them issue. 00:13:19.236 --> 00:13:24.156 And at first I thought, okay, she's found a great way to say that's a them thing. 00:13:24.276 --> 00:13:27.456 Because I'm really, when I say that's a them thing, it sounds a bit passive aggressive. 00:13:27.636 --> 00:13:30.636 Yeah there's a woman named tabitha brown i love her content 00:13:30.636 --> 00:13:33.816 where she says that's their business remember her 00:13:33.816 --> 00:13:36.516 and that's my business and that's their business so i think 00:13:36.516 --> 00:13:40.796 that's i think i need to soften up my that's a little bit that's a you thing 00:13:40.796 --> 00:13:44.076 but there is truth to it that is yeah but then when but you're right though 00:13:44.076 --> 00:13:47.796 because i i deal so much with couples because i i'm a couples therapist and 00:13:47.796 --> 00:13:53.396 i might see 20 couples in a week and when there is emotional abuse physical 00:13:53.396 --> 00:13:54.716 abuse those sort of things. 00:13:54.916 --> 00:13:59.516 The let them is something that then there are people that are in a pretty, 00:13:59.696 --> 00:14:04.256 pretty solid one down position in a relationship that then will hear something like that. 00:14:04.316 --> 00:14:09.536 And they almost then attach to that as if then, okay, I just need to let them do their thing. Right. 00:14:09.716 --> 00:14:13.136 Even if it's impacting me. And that's not fair. Right. Which that Lucy then 00:14:13.136 --> 00:14:16.276 said though, so I don't know if she might not like it, but let them blah, 00:14:16.356 --> 00:14:18.156 blah, blah, but let me react a certain way. 00:14:18.276 --> 00:14:20.776 There you go. Oh, it does make sense. And I feel like that's getting... Yeah. 00:14:20.916 --> 00:14:23.736 And that's where, and that's where one of my clients who I just love to death 00:14:23.736 --> 00:14:26.976 she just devoured that book um right when it 00:14:26.976 --> 00:14:29.716 came out and then we had a session the next day and she was asking 00:14:29.716 --> 00:14:32.476 my opinion and i was telling her again i don't know i don't know enough about 00:14:32.476 --> 00:14:35.336 it yet but she was sharing that with me that it's a great concept and 00:14:35.336 --> 00:14:39.696 she said they she that mel all that says the the word differentiation because 00:14:39.696 --> 00:14:42.856 but then remember that one of the best parts about differentiation is i can 00:14:42.856 --> 00:14:47.456 let them but then i can here comes a boundary then if they are going to if i 00:14:47.456 --> 00:14:53.256 am letting them and they are going to do something that is not healthy or good for me then I will exit. 00:14:54.196 --> 00:14:58.676 And I think that toward the end of the book, I think apparently she might say then the let me. 00:14:59.476 --> 00:15:01.756 So that's the part I don't know. I've never read the book. I've only seen the 00:15:01.756 --> 00:15:04.696 little clips. But yeah, because it's let them do their things. Oh, it's stars. 00:15:04.896 --> 00:15:08.136 Let's talk about that, right? Yeah. Because it's not your job to... 00:15:09.448 --> 00:15:12.328 Change them or make them do things differently but that doesn't 00:15:12.328 --> 00:15:15.248 mean yeah it's just let them and then deal with the consequences yeah so start 00:15:15.248 --> 00:15:18.188 what started saying when i react and try to talk to my husband he just yells more 00:15:18.188 --> 00:15:20.988 and i'm so sorry for that too i work a 00:15:20.988 --> 00:15:24.428 lot with the the world of the emotionally immature slash narcissistic 00:15:24.428 --> 00:15:27.488 traits and tendencies people and that's incredible 00:15:27.488 --> 00:15:31.588 immaturity when somebody continues to get louder and bigger because that's their 00:15:31.588 --> 00:15:35.368 little kid it's a little kid there inside of them that is saying this is the 00:15:35.368 --> 00:15:39.108 only way that i will have control that they can't rely on their big boy words 00:15:39.108 --> 00:15:43.928 or to be able to express their emotions or when somebody is saying something 00:15:43.928 --> 00:15:46.688 that makes them feel bad, then what do they do? 00:15:46.988 --> 00:15:49.648 How do they get rid of their discomfort? They turn around and yell or they get 00:15:49.648 --> 00:15:51.728 angry to then take that one up position. 00:15:51.908 --> 00:15:55.008 So it starts, I'm so sorry. And that's one where a boundary, 00:15:55.228 --> 00:15:59.008 a healthy boundary would be when he yells, then I leave. 00:15:59.128 --> 00:16:01.308 And unfortunately, that doesn't mean that he'll respect the boundary. 00:16:01.528 --> 00:16:03.908 And that's why boundaries are so important because they're your, 00:16:04.128 --> 00:16:08.348 it's a you thing. It's for you to take back a little bit of that power, 00:16:08.488 --> 00:16:12.328 even though it's not that you're letting him know I'm taking back power. 00:16:12.548 --> 00:16:14.028 I just, that is something that I have to do. 00:16:14.488 --> 00:16:18.648 So I really do. I love the concept around let them. And this is where so much 00:16:18.648 --> 00:16:22.268 of real mental health work is about something works until it doesn't, 00:16:22.348 --> 00:16:25.928 or it works in the times that it does, but there are other times where you need 00:16:25.928 --> 00:16:28.068 other tools. So it's not just an all or nothing. 00:16:28.248 --> 00:16:31.328 So some people will embrace something like a let them, and then just hang on 00:16:31.328 --> 00:16:34.828 to that because it's better than not having a tool, but it's a tool to start 00:16:34.828 --> 00:16:37.728 with and then there will be situations where it won't work and i think that's 00:16:37.728 --> 00:16:41.828 what i love yeah that's so important to know right but it's not yeah it's not a yeah. 00:16:42.308 --> 00:16:47.168 One-size-fits-all situation yeah and what i like about i mean i love this being 00:16:47.168 --> 00:16:50.748 able to interact with even just the community that shows up at these lives because 00:16:50.748 --> 00:16:54.088 hopefully you'll walk away from this tonight and if you're even curious about 00:16:54.088 --> 00:16:57.828 what is the let them theory that it is about being differentiated that is a 00:16:57.828 --> 00:17:00.768 them issue that is their business i can let them be who they are, 00:17:00.948 --> 00:17:05.588 but that doesn't mean that then I have to then manage their emotions or that I have to play small. 00:17:05.888 --> 00:17:11.448 And so that's where it's something to interact with to help yourself become 00:17:11.448 --> 00:17:13.808 better. Okay, what else do we have? Yeah. 00:17:16.848 --> 00:17:19.908 Mini ryan feel free to break up questions into multiples 00:17:19.908 --> 00:17:22.528 if you want to okay you're saying i want to 00:17:22.528 --> 00:17:25.208 be able to type as much as i want right now i'm getting an answer oh i hear you 00:17:25.208 --> 00:17:28.048 or just sum it up for and we'll try yeah we will 00:17:28.048 --> 00:17:30.968 do our best there okay john why do i still miss my ex 00:17:30.968 --> 00:17:34.348 after four months and i dated them for a year i'd say 00:17:34.348 --> 00:17:37.608 that's pretty normal that's not that doesn't mean anything like 00:17:37.608 --> 00:17:40.368 when you're committed to a person for that long and they take 00:17:40.368 --> 00:17:44.288 up that much of your time for that long they don't 00:17:44.288 --> 00:17:47.208 just disappear out of your mind they don't and and think about this too 00:17:47.208 --> 00:17:50.068 think of all the especially during the the love bombing 00:17:50.068 --> 00:17:52.908 or the honeymoon phase of the relationship how you're already 00:17:52.908 --> 00:17:55.788 planning i think yeah you planned your whole life yeah 00:17:55.788 --> 00:17:58.608 whether people want to admit it or not i think that we're we're all for 00:17:58.608 --> 00:18:01.408 the most part your mind it does that we're dreamers and so yeah 00:18:01.408 --> 00:18:04.448 so then we think about it we think about good situations and 00:18:04.448 --> 00:18:07.328 if you if it took a year to break up then i'm 00:18:07.328 --> 00:18:10.208 sure that there were times that were good there were then times that 00:18:10.208 --> 00:18:12.988 weren't so good and now we're starting to tiptoe into 00:18:12.988 --> 00:18:16.808 the waters of the trauma bond a little bit of that intermittent reinforcement where 00:18:16.808 --> 00:18:19.948 the same person that gives you the punishment also provides you 00:18:19.948 --> 00:18:23.548 with the reward and it can it actually acts in the area of the brain that's 00:18:23.548 --> 00:18:28.468 similar to where a like a drug addict does so the person and that's why so often 00:18:28.468 --> 00:18:32.448 when i see people in my office where they're navigating a breakup but the person 00:18:32.448 --> 00:18:37.268 they want to go commiserate with is the person that they're breaking up with have you ever felt that 00:18:37.708 --> 00:18:42.248 Yeah, no, I know that feeling I told you about this in one of the last lives 00:18:42.248 --> 00:18:45.148 The Bachelor people Where the guy was a. 00:18:46.537 --> 00:18:51.857 Don't shadow ban. Don't get a shadow ban. He sucked. And the girl went on the 00:18:51.857 --> 00:18:53.797 Call Her Daddy podcast. Oh, yeah. You remember that? Yeah. 00:18:53.997 --> 00:18:56.857 And she brought up that point where she was like, it's so hard because the one 00:18:56.857 --> 00:18:58.697 person I want to... She's crying and she's hurting. 00:18:58.837 --> 00:19:02.317 And it's like the one person she wants to go talk to about it is the one that hurt her. 00:19:02.497 --> 00:19:05.017 Yeah. You know? Yeah. So it is that weird, like... Absolutely. 00:19:05.117 --> 00:19:09.657 But I definitely felt that after my somewhat traumatic relationship. 00:19:09.877 --> 00:19:11.417 Or a very traumatic relationship. 00:19:12.477 --> 00:19:16.257 Where it was like... That was the person I went to for nearly a year. 00:19:16.537 --> 00:19:19.237 And so then as I'm going through things after that, it was like, 00:19:19.357 --> 00:19:22.977 my first thought would be, that's who I want to talk to. And then two minutes 00:19:22.977 --> 00:19:23.897 later, I'd be like, no, I don't. 00:19:24.097 --> 00:19:28.037 Yeah. But it does. You're so used to that. They occupied so much of your mental 00:19:28.037 --> 00:19:29.637 calories, your emotional calories. 00:19:29.877 --> 00:19:33.817 For a long time. It's going to take some time to grieve. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's 00:19:33.817 --> 00:19:35.157 Stages of Grief and Loss. 00:19:35.317 --> 00:19:37.777 It's interesting. If you go look at those up, they're not, it's actually not 00:19:37.777 --> 00:19:38.777 an evidence-based model. 00:19:38.977 --> 00:19:43.157 And that's one where, while I might not be a fan of things like the love languages, 00:19:43.157 --> 00:19:45.457 because people will weaponize those against each other. 00:19:45.457 --> 00:19:49.037 And those aren't an evidence-based model, but the stages of grief and loss, 00:19:49.197 --> 00:19:52.097 the acronym is DABDA, which is a hard one to remember, but yeah, 00:19:52.257 --> 00:19:55.177 denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and then acceptance. 00:19:55.737 --> 00:19:59.737 I like those because even again, if it's not, it is linear evidence-based model, 00:20:00.117 --> 00:20:03.237 know that there's going to be a lot of denial that, that this is not happening 00:20:03.237 --> 00:20:05.857 or, and there's going to be anger. How can they do this to me? 00:20:05.997 --> 00:20:09.357 And then the bargaining is a really wild stage because I, that's the, 00:20:09.477 --> 00:20:10.197 one of the most misunderstood. 00:20:10.517 --> 00:20:13.797 The bargaining is okay. I'll do whatever it takes to make this thing work. 00:20:14.297 --> 00:20:17.517 And then, yeah. Like, I'll sacrifice things. Yeah, I'll sacrifice things. 00:20:17.677 --> 00:20:21.957 I'll lose my sense of self because when it's good, it is good. And maybe it is my fault. 00:20:22.097 --> 00:20:25.257 And I'll tell you, Mac, one of the things I think is so crazy is how many people 00:20:25.257 --> 00:20:28.777 will then try to make a situation about them. 00:20:29.377 --> 00:20:31.657 Because if it's about them, they can fix it. 00:20:32.215 --> 00:20:35.115 But right it's like gaining back control yeah 00:20:35.115 --> 00:20:38.615 so even if not in a malicious way exactly 00:20:38.615 --> 00:20:41.595 yeah so the happy fun version of control you hear control and 00:20:41.595 --> 00:20:46.495 it's automatically negative yeah yeah which segue yeah is control a real thing 00:20:46.495 --> 00:20:50.695 will we ever have it or is it just paradoxical oh that's a great question yeah 00:20:50.695 --> 00:20:55.655 so honestly i don't so we want we want there's some things we want we want control 00:20:55.655 --> 00:20:59.375 we want certainty we want to alleviate our discomfort and what you just said 00:20:59.375 --> 00:21:00.455 there, is it paradoxical? 00:21:00.575 --> 00:21:03.515 That is one of my favorite words in mental health because weren't we talking 00:21:03.515 --> 00:21:09.375 about this where if the things that were easy to do worked, then nobody would have any problems. 00:21:09.695 --> 00:21:12.675 Oh yeah. So that's the paradoxical nature of mental health in general. 00:21:12.735 --> 00:21:15.855 So if I could just stop thinking things, then that'd be easy. 00:21:15.935 --> 00:21:18.715 But when I try to not think of things, don't think about the white elephant. 00:21:19.075 --> 00:21:21.875 Don't think about the white elephant wearing a green tutu. Don't think about 00:21:21.875 --> 00:21:26.155 him balancing on a ball. Don't think about him throwing things with his trunk. We all just did it. 00:21:26.535 --> 00:21:30.315 That is the easiest paradoxical example of mental health. 00:21:30.515 --> 00:21:33.355 So, what we have to do is we have to acknowledge, I'm thinking it, 00:21:33.715 --> 00:21:35.315 acknowledge that I'm feeling my feelings. 00:21:35.655 --> 00:21:39.315 So, if I go back to control a real thing, it's why do I need control? 00:21:40.035 --> 00:21:43.955 Because I think for the most part, control is an immature response, 00:21:44.355 --> 00:21:46.995 is a way to have things in our lives and in our relationships. 00:21:47.435 --> 00:21:50.935 I can have acceptance and I can make room for the things that I want. 00:21:51.095 --> 00:21:55.895 But if I need to control them, then I think that starts to control me versus 00:21:55.895 --> 00:21:58.355 that's something that I'm moving toward, that I would like, 00:21:58.475 --> 00:22:03.735 that I want to embrace, that I would love to notice, to bring it along with 00:22:03.735 --> 00:22:06.915 me, but control, then all of a sudden it is controlling me. 00:22:08.840 --> 00:22:11.540 That's tricky stuff. Yeah, the paradoxical stuff though. Yeah, 00:22:11.580 --> 00:22:14.560 that's deep, especially with the mental health. Yeah, I think about that a lot. 00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:18.800 Okay, speed run for you. What are your favorite book recommendations for couples? 00:22:19.120 --> 00:22:22.580 You know, I used to always say Emotionally Focused or Hold Me Tight, 00:22:22.860 --> 00:22:24.120 which is a Sue Johnson book. 00:22:24.540 --> 00:22:28.420 It's about emotionally focused therapy. And it is a good book, 00:22:28.520 --> 00:22:32.300 but I am slowly but surely moving over from the emotionally focused therapy 00:22:32.300 --> 00:22:35.480 model to more of a model of becoming differentiated. 00:22:35.860 --> 00:22:37.400 Being a differentiation therapist. 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:39.720 And there's a book by David Schnarch called Passionate Marriage. 00:22:40.040 --> 00:22:43.460 The unfortunate part is it's not available in audio or on Kindle. 00:22:43.620 --> 00:22:48.820 So you have to buy the actual book and read it. I like actual books. I can't do audio books. 00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:52.720 But any of this stuff from Sue Johnson, I think Love Sense is her follow-up 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.780 book from Hold Me Tight. And I really like that as well. 00:22:55.300 --> 00:22:58.880 Yeah, those are my immediate go-tos. Okay. Going back. 00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:01.500 There we go, Lucy. Yeah, that's the part. You can't have Let Them without Let 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.840 Me, which I liked about the book. But I was a skeptic. Yeah. 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.460 And I appreciate that. And that's what... Oh, I was going to say something else 00:23:06.460 --> 00:23:09.380 about a book. So I'm working on a book about my emotional baseline, 00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:10.640 Raising Your Emotional Baseline right now. 00:23:10.860 --> 00:23:13.620 And I've got a book out about addiction and recovery. 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:16.480 And there's a really fascinating thing that happens when you write a book. 00:23:16.780 --> 00:23:18.460 Trauma Bond Preach, I like who said that. 00:23:18.860 --> 00:23:23.440 But when you are writing a book, it's wild. Because I always wanted to write 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.900 a book. And then when I finally got a book deal and I was writing a book, 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.540 I got so behind on writing it. Because when you actually are starting to write it, it's odd. 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:32.340 It's just such a trip to think, these are going to be the words. 00:23:32.340 --> 00:23:36.080 And it's almost like they're going to be locked in. And I wanted to just go 00:23:36.080 --> 00:23:41.360 on and on and on explaining all the different variations and variables that would be in a situation. 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:46.260 So even I know that someone like a Mel Robbins, there's going to be, yeah, let them, let me. 00:23:46.820 --> 00:23:49.880 And it's hard to, I often think of when you're writing a book, 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:51.460 you just have to make it, there's a template. 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:55.060 And you'll never, ever be able to address all the things that you want to. 00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:58.720 Even in podcasts, I've got 700 podcasts out now. 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:04.140 You still have so much more. So much more. And I just want to just keep going and going. Exactly. 00:24:05.163 --> 00:24:08.223 Okay. Are you ready to speed run? Oh, yeah. We're getting behind. Okay. 00:24:08.643 --> 00:24:13.243 Okay. I feel stuck in life no matter what I do, how to start making change in my life. 00:24:13.963 --> 00:24:18.923 Little tiny things is my initial go-to thing. Do you mind speed running like 00:24:18.923 --> 00:24:20.843 the fact that, what were you like a year ago? 00:24:24.363 --> 00:24:27.083 Horrible? The worst I've ever been in my own life? No, you were horrible. Mackie. 00:24:27.243 --> 00:24:30.243 No, but I had just gotten a diagnosis for an autoimmune disease, 00:24:30.243 --> 00:24:33.123 and I had spent years not feeling 00:24:33.123 --> 00:24:35.963 like myself and feeling awful and was at the peak of it and everything was 00:24:35.963 --> 00:24:39.543 terrible and my mental health was the worst it had ever been and genuinely 00:24:39.543 --> 00:24:42.523 what has got me to a point where i'm okay is the 00:24:42.523 --> 00:24:45.423 little tiny things and we joked about this on our on 00:24:45.423 --> 00:24:48.443 podcast and stuff too but like i got into legos and 00:24:48.443 --> 00:24:52.203 like made lego flowers yeah watercolor reading books 00:24:52.203 --> 00:24:57.223 puzzles playing my piano like it's all the little things that don't feel important 00:24:57.223 --> 00:25:00.843 are actually you were go on walks up in the canyon yeah i would go on walks 00:25:00.843 --> 00:25:05.163 i and it's like even the dumb like taking a shower and brushing your teeth twice 00:25:05.163 --> 00:25:11.163 a day and like thank you for me like i would just i would. 00:25:11.603 --> 00:25:14.983 It sounds dumb but i would set a goal to do my makeup every day 00:25:14.983 --> 00:25:17.663 even if i didn't feel like it just because it was like self-care in a 00:25:17.663 --> 00:25:20.643 sense and made me feel better but it's genuinely the tiny 00:25:20.643 --> 00:25:23.423 little not even 10 shifts it's even 00:25:23.423 --> 00:25:26.423 smaller than that and it's petting your dog that's 00:25:26.423 --> 00:25:30.043 the one you always say no but it's doing anything besides just 00:25:30.043 --> 00:25:33.063 sitting and ruminating that that right 00:25:33.063 --> 00:25:35.843 there and i want to come back to you in a second here because i want i would 00:25:35.843 --> 00:25:38.443 love for you people to hear for those that are 00:25:38.443 --> 00:25:41.163 new here don't know mackie's story go find the mind 00:25:41.163 --> 00:25:43.843 the mirror and me podcast or on the virtual couch we talked about at 00:25:43.843 --> 00:25:46.403 one point but you've lost how much weight in the 00:25:46.403 --> 00:25:49.143 last year 65 pounds you you 00:25:49.143 --> 00:25:52.143 and you did an amazing job and i think even on the podcast i 00:25:52.143 --> 00:25:55.043 was saying of course i knew you would do it no i was like worried 00:25:55.043 --> 00:25:57.803 that that would be hard too hard to do you meal prepped your 00:25:57.803 --> 00:26:01.363 own food you cook things you you were just so disciplined and then we ran a 00:26:01.363 --> 00:26:06.083 half marathon a few months ago and you pr'd and and that was all within a year 00:26:06.083 --> 00:26:11.563 and a little over a year ago just for anybody that we moved out to arizona you 00:26:11.563 --> 00:26:14.743 were in utah i was in california but we called you one afternoon or you called 00:26:14.743 --> 00:26:17.723 us and you weren't doing very well and i jumped on the worst day. 00:26:18.823 --> 00:26:21.943 I jumped on an airplane i said mackie do you want me to come get you and you 00:26:21.943 --> 00:26:24.123 said i don't know Yeah, no, and I don't know. 00:26:24.323 --> 00:26:26.923 You got on an airplane? I did. I got on an airplane a couple hours later, 00:26:27.103 --> 00:26:29.863 made it out there. You picked me up at the airport. I didn't even know if you would. 00:26:30.303 --> 00:26:33.223 I mean, I was planning on just coming back the next day if I had to. Yeah. 00:26:33.423 --> 00:26:36.503 And we drove through the night. We wanted the air conditioning on traveling 00:26:36.503 --> 00:26:40.003 through the night. It was so cold. I couldn't breathe. I was anxious. 00:26:40.223 --> 00:26:43.803 It was so cold. And we sang songs and I took my ADHD medication. 00:26:43.803 --> 00:26:44.843 Thank goodness. So I was like, 00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:50.450 I stayed up for a couple of days. Remember you dropped me off at my work and 00:26:50.450 --> 00:26:52.910 I started to see like 12 clients the next day. And I'm like, 00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:54.790 Hey guys, I'm fine. How are you? 00:26:55.090 --> 00:26:57.910 What a great day. And it's like, genuinely though, it's so weird to even think 00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:01.690 that that's what position I was in now because I am okay right now. It's incredible. 00:27:01.930 --> 00:27:05.090 And so it's like, it is that it does get better and it gets a little worse sometimes, 00:27:05.090 --> 00:27:09.910 but it always gets better. And it is because of the little tiny things. Yeah. 00:27:10.270 --> 00:27:13.510 So don't just, don't think you're not doing anything. If all you did was shower. 00:27:13.670 --> 00:27:15.270 You know, like that's all I'm getting at work. 00:27:15.270 --> 00:27:18.410 That's what i want to say a year later matter your life has changed 00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:21.650 so much and that you did not see that coming and danielle 00:27:21.650 --> 00:27:24.710 it just takes a little bit of courage a little bit of time a little bit of perseverance 00:27:24.710 --> 00:27:27.470 yeah lots of little bits of things and then i do i 00:27:27.470 --> 00:27:30.610 call it the my emotional baseline theory that when you 00:27:30.610 --> 00:27:33.430 are when you're on top of the world your baseline of emotions is high and 00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:36.170 everything seems pretty easy and you're making all the decisions that come at you 00:27:36.170 --> 00:27:39.010 when you start to feel pretty bad your baseline of emotions drops but 00:27:39.010 --> 00:27:42.050 all the same decisions were there you had a salon studio 00:27:42.050 --> 00:27:44.830 you had you're trying to make money you were trying to and all 00:27:44.830 --> 00:27:47.810 those decisions were there and the lower your emotional baseline got the 00:27:47.810 --> 00:27:50.710 harder it was to reach up and grab the tools that 00:27:50.710 --> 00:27:53.830 you needed yeah and so then i was backtracking so hard 00:27:53.830 --> 00:27:57.170 and i didn't know how to fix anything and everything was overwhelming yeah and 00:27:57.170 --> 00:28:01.390 so what mackey's saying and what and what we're talking about is what it means 00:28:01.390 --> 00:28:05.550 to raise your emotional baseline is self-care self-care is not selfish and self-care 00:28:05.550 --> 00:28:09.150 can be everything from listening to something thinking something dreaming something 00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:13.070 believing something then starting to take action do a little coloring do a little 00:28:13.210 --> 00:28:15.950 colors go on a walk set a timer for an hour and every 00:28:15.950 --> 00:28:18.790 time that timer goes off get up and turn it off and get back 00:28:18.790 --> 00:28:21.410 down whatever you have to do anything that's because you're 00:28:21.410 --> 00:28:24.650 bumping your baseline up a little bit yeah and this is the part two where i'm 00:28:24.650 --> 00:28:27.910 not a psychiatrist i'm a marriage and family therapist so i don't prescribe 00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:33.230 medication yeah but medication is it can help raise your emotional baseline 00:28:33.230 --> 00:28:37.350 a little bit yeah so it might bump you up enough to then be able to access the 00:28:37.350 --> 00:28:40.910 tools you might need of meditation mindfulness going on walks reaching out to people. 00:28:41.370 --> 00:28:43.470 And that's a really difficult thing because a lot of times people, 00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:46.750 their emotional baseline is so low and they're the ones that are trying to say. 00:28:47.529 --> 00:28:50.309 Should i do this but then and that's that's what was 00:28:50.309 --> 00:28:53.189 hard about when i was saying should i come get you because i was too low 00:28:53.189 --> 00:28:55.889 your baseline's low so that's really hard i was like 00:28:55.889 --> 00:28:58.769 no i'm fine but i wasn't fine yeah so that's yeah 00:28:58.769 --> 00:29:01.789 so just do anything to raise that emotional baseline lucy 00:29:01.789 --> 00:29:04.529 said have y'all heard of the finch app it's cute and starts 00:29:04.529 --> 00:29:07.489 out with small goals i haven't but that does sound cute okay can. 00:29:07.489 --> 00:29:10.169 I be honest but so i'm sitting back here and i need 00:29:10.169 --> 00:29:13.069 new glasses i really do i thought i said small goats i'm 00:29:13.069 --> 00:29:15.949 dead serious because i'm watching severance and they're into the section where 00:29:15.949 --> 00:29:19.109 the cooper ferguson was on there says to invite him live we 00:29:19.109 --> 00:29:22.369 should invite cooper live and kelly said hi kelly hey kelly kelly 00:29:22.369 --> 00:29:25.629 what's going on thanks for coming kelly's one of the ogs which 00:29:25.629 --> 00:29:28.509 i think is so cool like riddle nerd i've seen uh real nerd 00:29:28.509 --> 00:29:31.949 here kelly there's people that have just been here for a long time it's really. 00:29:31.949 --> 00:29:34.769 Cool it is okay i'm near 00:29:34.769 --> 00:29:37.609 i i have never meal prepped and lost 60 pounds to ash way 00:29:37.609 --> 00:29:40.789 to go for us be nice i have 00:29:40.789 --> 00:29:44.069 never meal prepped and i have not lost any pounds so i 00:29:44.069 --> 00:29:47.129 guess you put us all together we got it all figured out but 00:29:47.129 --> 00:29:49.749 i'm happy for you oh what's the condition somebody said are you 00:29:49.749 --> 00:29:52.949 open to that oh um hashimoto's hypothyroidism yeah 00:29:52.949 --> 00:29:56.089 okay mini ryan again 00:29:56.089 --> 00:29:59.009 how do you fight depression and anxiety being 00:29:59.009 --> 00:30:01.789 bipolar do i get medicated honestly and again this is 00:30:01.789 --> 00:30:05.349 where i'm just gonna throw out first thing everything don't 00:30:05.349 --> 00:30:08.369 that's you know eat no et is that 00:30:08.369 --> 00:30:11.389 too i never saw it as a kid but i do know it was very 00:30:11.389 --> 00:30:14.249 scary to me they use Reese's Pieces for ET and 00:30:14.249 --> 00:30:17.729 I've never liked Reese's Pieces and M&Ms were anyway 00:30:17.729 --> 00:30:20.769 anyway okay um everything we 00:30:20.769 --> 00:30:23.909 just said about all the little things that would be my same answer initially 00:30:23.909 --> 00:30:26.749 to fighting depression and anxiety because 00:30:26.749 --> 00:30:30.189 also when I was like 14 I 00:30:30.189 --> 00:30:36.409 was diagnosed with depression and it was a legit very serious thing for me from 00:30:36.409 --> 00:30:42.029 that high school time and it was all those same little things like it was that's 00:30:42.029 --> 00:30:46.289 when i taught myself guitar piano and like it was those same it's also that 00:30:46.289 --> 00:30:50.069 same and the baseline theory also is very crucial i think to. 00:30:51.193 --> 00:30:55.893 Managing depression and anxiety so take all that into account but then you the 00:30:55.893 --> 00:30:59.753 bipolar and the bipolar is one that uh i've been asked before about that one 00:30:59.753 --> 00:31:02.913 and that's one i'm not as familiar with and but i know that it that bipolar 00:31:02.913 --> 00:31:06.633 is one that that does most likely needs some medication. 00:31:07.093 --> 00:31:09.853 And and i know that there are people that if they are 00:31:09.853 --> 00:31:12.813 bipolar but they take an antidepressant that that isn't really 00:31:12.813 --> 00:31:15.633 going to address it or if they have depression and they take did 00:31:15.633 --> 00:31:18.333 i just say that same thing but or vice versa so you really 00:31:18.333 --> 00:31:21.293 don't jump into something just then maybe you know yeah talk 00:31:21.293 --> 00:31:24.473 about it and think about it definitely go to a doctor medication is 00:31:24.473 --> 00:31:27.293 not a bad thing it doesn't make you weak and it's just a helpful 00:31:27.293 --> 00:31:33.553 tool yep absolutely okay i like uh sophia's how to oh here's how to deal with 00:31:33.553 --> 00:31:37.733 test anxiety oh test anxiety is a good one test anxiety is one i'll just super 00:31:37.733 --> 00:31:41.633 quick speed run on that one yeah is it really is is embracing or accepting the 00:31:41.633 --> 00:31:45.153 fact that i am anxious about this test because it goes back to that so many 00:31:45.153 --> 00:31:47.073 people that have things like test anxiety, 00:31:47.273 --> 00:31:51.033 then just they're so worried about the test anxiety that then the test anxiety 00:31:51.033 --> 00:31:53.513 is the thing that is controlling them. 00:31:53.653 --> 00:31:56.753 Back to that. But if I accept the fact that, oh, I'm going to have test anxiety, 00:31:56.913 --> 00:32:00.713 now I can also study and I can acknowledge and there's that test anxiety again. 00:32:01.013 --> 00:32:04.293 It's that concept of where when I talk about acceptance doesn't mean apathy. 00:32:04.453 --> 00:32:09.133 If you look at anxiety in general, if you are so anxious that you want to avoid 00:32:09.133 --> 00:32:13.033 all things that will cause anxiety, then the anxiety is the thing that is in control. 00:32:13.233 --> 00:32:16.033 But if I accept the fact that I'm going to be anxious then i can also 00:32:16.033 --> 00:32:18.793 go and interact with people and i can i can pet my dog 00:32:18.793 --> 00:32:21.993 i can go out and on a run oh and i can also be anxious so 00:32:21.993 --> 00:32:24.733 you're making space or room to have all of those 00:32:24.733 --> 00:32:27.853 feelings and emotions so you have to accept that i will be 00:32:27.853 --> 00:32:33.653 anxious i say this one every time i can't stand being scared at movies but we 00:32:33.653 --> 00:32:37.793 go to scary movies because my throw your popcorn and you cover your eyes because 00:32:37.793 --> 00:32:43.613 my adult kids actually want to go out with me as an adult dad and that blows 00:32:43.613 --> 00:32:45.233 my of mine, but they like scary movies. 00:32:46.386 --> 00:32:49.166 Literally every time if i if i was saying okay i don't want 00:32:49.166 --> 00:32:51.906 to be scared which is fair then i would 00:32:51.906 --> 00:32:55.366 miss out on going out with my kids and their significant 00:32:55.366 --> 00:32:58.286 others and holding my wife's hand and eating popcorn and building 00:32:58.286 --> 00:33:01.366 a connection yeah so sharing that experience literally every time that i'm at 00:33:01.366 --> 00:33:04.726 a scary movie and the lights go down and i do have the popcorn and hopefully 00:33:04.726 --> 00:33:08.346 my riddle is kicked in at that point but then every single time i'm like oh 00:33:08.346 --> 00:33:13.986 i'm not i always say to wendy i'm not ready for this i'm not but but i love 00:33:13.986 --> 00:33:16.706 being when you actually threw the popcorn and And you lifted, 00:33:16.946 --> 00:33:21.126 like you jumped out of your seat and threw your, I was next to you and threw your popcorn. 00:33:21.326 --> 00:33:25.366 How about, how about, um, last time you went to a movie? Is it this side on my face or this side? 00:33:25.946 --> 00:33:29.046 This side. Oh, but it's healing. Nice. Yeah. The scar. I ran into a wall. 00:33:29.526 --> 00:33:32.046 We were at a movie and he ran straight into a wall. That one is, 00:33:32.166 --> 00:33:35.646 that one's pretty rough. And was like. I got my bell rung. 00:33:36.506 --> 00:33:41.826 Like maybe would need stitches. Yeah. And you guys watched and you laughed. We were dying. 00:33:42.326 --> 00:33:46.766 It was so funny. Was it though? It was. I find it hard to progress in a negative environment. 00:33:47.046 --> 00:33:50.166 Oh, Lena, absolutely. And this is where I would love to know more about that 00:33:50.166 --> 00:33:51.966 because there's so much. 00:33:52.066 --> 00:33:55.066 Now, if we go into my favorite therapy modality of ACT, acceptance and commitment 00:33:55.066 --> 00:33:59.966 therapy, that if you're doing things that you really just don't want to do or 00:33:59.966 --> 00:34:03.646 you're in a place where you don't want to be, then we fit that into this concept 00:34:03.646 --> 00:34:06.626 of your... Let me just give the socially compliant goal. 00:34:06.766 --> 00:34:10.206 When I'm doing something that I think I'm supposed to do or else, 00:34:10.246 --> 00:34:12.026 or else somebody will be disappointed in me. 00:34:12.026 --> 00:34:16.206 So if I'm in a place that is negative and I feel like, but I have to be here 00:34:16.206 --> 00:34:19.166 because, I don't know, it's my friends or that sort of thing, 00:34:19.286 --> 00:34:22.046 then I fit that into this bucket of a socially compliant goal. 00:34:22.106 --> 00:34:27.266 And if you're existing in the socially compliant goals, your motivation to be 00:34:27.266 --> 00:34:30.126 there is pretty weak and ineffective because it goes against who you want to be. 00:34:30.586 --> 00:34:33.366 And so that is a sign for you to try to get out of that. 00:34:33.866 --> 00:34:38.086 But I know it can be hard. I feel like there's almost a tie to emotional baseline 00:34:38.086 --> 00:34:42.146 in a sense, but in a shifted way. But if you're in the negative environment, 00:34:42.366 --> 00:34:46.646 I feel like it wouldn't be your emotional baseline, but something is lower overall. 00:34:46.846 --> 00:34:48.326 And so it's harder to progress because... 00:34:49.789 --> 00:34:53.049 It is all negative. What's hard is, Lena, and maybe I can talk about this too. 00:34:53.229 --> 00:34:56.749 I work with enough people that feel like they are stuck, whatever it is, 00:34:56.829 --> 00:35:00.489 wherever they are, stuck in their job, stuck in their relationship, stuck in their family. 00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:03.749 And in those situations, the fact that you're aware of it is the first step. 00:35:03.969 --> 00:35:06.569 Okay, I'm acknowledging that this is not the place that I want to be. 00:35:06.709 --> 00:35:10.589 But then often what we do is even we'll respond immaturely to that. 00:35:10.749 --> 00:35:14.129 We'll make sure that everybody knows that I'm upset or frustrated or I don't want to be here. 00:35:14.129 --> 00:35:18.569 The problem is if those are the people that are, they're being immature, 00:35:18.809 --> 00:35:22.029 they're not being supportive, they're not being curious about your experience 00:35:22.029 --> 00:35:25.829 or then your shutting down is not going to cause them to go, 00:35:25.949 --> 00:35:27.909 oh my gosh, hey, tell me what's going on there, champ. 00:35:28.589 --> 00:35:33.769 So your opportunity for growth there is at first recognizing this isn't somewhere I want to be. 00:35:33.909 --> 00:35:36.509 These aren't the people I want to be around. This isn't the environment that 00:35:36.509 --> 00:35:39.389 I want to be in. And so, just acknowledge that, accept that, 00:35:39.509 --> 00:35:43.289 because then what you can do is you maybe can be able to have a tiny bit of 00:35:43.289 --> 00:35:44.869 control in that environment. 00:35:45.149 --> 00:35:48.009 Whether, man, Viktor Frankl, the book Man's Search for Meaning, 00:35:48.429 --> 00:35:52.849 that, if anybody has not read that, it's a quick read, but he was in a concentration camp. 00:35:53.009 --> 00:35:56.529 Talk about being somewhere that you have no control. And he would say that the 00:35:56.529 --> 00:36:01.009 place that he could live was within his mind, that he just had an opportunity 00:36:01.009 --> 00:36:05.609 to just create narratives, create stories, create spaces in his mind. 00:36:05.869 --> 00:36:08.629 That's deep. It is, and I often think that... I feel like it would normally 00:36:08.629 --> 00:36:12.829 go the opposite way. It typically does go the opposite way, but then your mind is not your safe space. 00:36:13.129 --> 00:36:17.049 Okay, Viktor Frankl... This is a book? Yeah, yeah, Man's Search for Meaning. 00:36:17.249 --> 00:36:19.629 It's really good, Mac. I think it might be in our Kindle library. 00:36:19.929 --> 00:36:23.849 I don't do Kindle. His famous quote is... Well, there's a few. 00:36:24.009 --> 00:36:25.109 He said, The one thing you can't 00:36:25.109 --> 00:36:27.669 take away from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. 00:36:27.949 --> 00:36:30.949 And he says, Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, 00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:33.789 but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. 00:36:34.209 --> 00:36:38.149 But, okay, let me find the one... Smart gun. There's a bunch. There's a... 00:36:39.373 --> 00:36:43.453 Okay. Oh, in every situation, there is a moment to pause and decide how we'll react. 00:36:43.793 --> 00:36:48.073 He just was really about building space between stimulus and response was one 00:36:48.073 --> 00:36:52.053 of his most famous concepts because I've actually taken that and built it into 00:36:52.053 --> 00:36:53.313 my addiction recovery program. 00:36:53.513 --> 00:36:58.373 So when somebody has, in the world of like addiction, if somebody has a thought, 00:36:58.533 --> 00:37:01.073 usually it goes, there's a trigger, a thought and an action. 00:37:01.373 --> 00:37:05.393 And so you're trying to build space. If you can address your triggers, that's ideal. 00:37:05.553 --> 00:37:09.413 So let's say that somebody gets really down or depressed or they act out with 00:37:09.413 --> 00:37:13.933 impulsive or compulsive behaviors whenever they're by themselves or they're 00:37:13.933 --> 00:37:15.493 hungry, angry, lonely, tired. 00:37:15.793 --> 00:37:18.913 They can start to recognize that those are the triggers. So can I make sure 00:37:18.913 --> 00:37:21.193 that I'm with friends? Can I make sure that I'm fed? 00:37:21.893 --> 00:37:24.373 But if I can address that trigger, but then I'm going to have a thought and 00:37:24.373 --> 00:37:25.333 then I'm going to do an action. 00:37:25.613 --> 00:37:29.093 And like that Viktor Frankl concept is, can I build space between thought and 00:37:29.093 --> 00:37:32.313 the action, whether it's by doing something, going for a walk, 00:37:32.473 --> 00:37:36.613 calling a friend, doing pushups, or whether I can now just make room for that 00:37:36.613 --> 00:37:38.893 and notice my thoughts and my emotions, my feelings. 00:37:39.213 --> 00:37:42.713 One of the best places that you can start to raise that baseline or start to 00:37:42.713 --> 00:37:45.813 do self-care is in the way that you respond in a situation. 00:37:45.953 --> 00:37:49.493 And it doesn't mean you have to get mad at somebody or tell them what they're 00:37:49.493 --> 00:37:52.053 doing is wrong. Your response is in your mind. 00:37:52.697 --> 00:37:55.737 That's deep to think of that as self-care, though. It is. Yeah. 00:37:55.977 --> 00:37:59.417 So you can be in an environment where your parents are being kind of jerks or 00:37:59.417 --> 00:38:01.877 your spouse is what I was saying earlier. Yeah. 00:38:02.217 --> 00:38:07.237 And you can then in that moment respond inside even your mind of this is not 00:38:07.237 --> 00:38:10.957 something that I want to be a part of. This is something I want to start to see. 00:38:11.137 --> 00:38:14.517 And you're showing yourself love by doing that. Yeah. That I can start to try to move away from. 00:38:14.897 --> 00:38:17.737 Yeah. That's deep. That is. I need a speed run, my guy. Okay. 00:38:17.957 --> 00:38:20.757 Wait. You keep saying speed run. Because we need to speed run. we're 00:38:20.757 --> 00:38:23.677 getting behind any tips to conquering 00:38:23.677 --> 00:38:26.397 inner critic yeah that your inner critic it's a 00:38:26.397 --> 00:38:29.397 great great question your inner critic is that just constant 00:38:29.397 --> 00:38:33.557 inner monologue inner dialogue and this is why i talk so much about acceptance 00:38:33.557 --> 00:38:37.397 and commitment therapy because i believe that most of our inner critic comes 00:38:37.397 --> 00:38:41.057 from the way that we talk to ourselves the way we beat ourselves up when we 00:38:41.057 --> 00:38:45.377 say man i'm so dumb or i shouldn't have thought that or what's wrong with me 00:38:45.377 --> 00:38:48.197 and this is my big soapbox I like to talk about. 00:38:48.417 --> 00:38:53.637 And this is where the typical way that we talk about a lot of therapists or 00:38:53.637 --> 00:38:56.957 influencers or motivational speakers start from that. 00:38:57.437 --> 00:39:00.637 Your thoughts, you have your stinking thinking, your automatic negative thoughts, 00:39:00.637 --> 00:39:03.577 and then you just have to change it and then you'll be happier. 00:39:03.697 --> 00:39:06.597 Now that can work when somebody has no idea where to start from. 00:39:06.757 --> 00:39:07.757 Just think of it differently. 00:39:08.017 --> 00:39:11.737 But acceptance and commitment therapy is the most beautiful thing because it starts with, 00:39:12.077 --> 00:39:14.917 again, you're the only version of you that's ever walked the face of the earth 00:39:14.917 --> 00:39:17.957 mac you with your nature nurture birth order dna abandonment rejection hopes 00:39:17.957 --> 00:39:21.057 fears dreams and everything that makes you you so you actually think and feel 00:39:21.057 --> 00:39:24.837 the way you do because you do and you're not broken you're human thank you yeah 00:39:24.837 --> 00:39:29.957 thank you and so in that so if your inner critic is saying man you are so dumb 00:39:29.957 --> 00:39:33.617 you shouldn't have handled that way it's okay uh noted noted. 00:39:34.277 --> 00:39:38.337 Onto the next thing yeah so uh because it's when you are just when you're giving 00:39:38.337 --> 00:39:43.437 so much energy or power or focus to that inner critic, that inner critic is, 00:39:43.557 --> 00:39:46.377 you can become differentiated from yourself, from your inner critic. 00:39:46.497 --> 00:39:49.137 So when your inner critic is telling you, you should have known better, 00:39:49.297 --> 00:39:51.857 then it's okay. That's a thought. That is. 00:39:52.562 --> 00:39:56.822 Thank you. Thanks, I guess. And it takes time to do that because you have so 00:39:56.822 --> 00:39:59.422 many thoughts and so many emotions and so many feelings that are happening. 00:39:59.722 --> 00:40:03.442 And try not to say what's wrong with me. Nothing's wrong with you. 00:40:03.622 --> 00:40:05.762 You're going through life literally the very first time. 00:40:05.942 --> 00:40:09.662 Very first time is you. So that is how you're thinking. That is how you're feeling. 00:40:09.862 --> 00:40:13.582 So check that out. That is all that you need to say to that. 00:40:13.762 --> 00:40:17.262 That really is. Your inner critic is trying to say something to you and think it. 00:40:17.462 --> 00:40:19.702 I appreciate you, voice inside my head. 00:40:20.162 --> 00:40:23.622 The very founder of acceptance and commitment therapy, Dr. Stephen Hayes, 00:40:23.822 --> 00:40:25.982 when he started talking about this, I loved it because I swear, 00:40:26.182 --> 00:40:29.602 maybe I'm missing, maybe I'm mixing up stories, but I swear he called his inner 00:40:29.602 --> 00:40:31.382 voice, George. So he'd say, thanks, George. 00:40:32.002 --> 00:40:36.602 And in mine, it's just, okay, thanks brain. I appreciate you saying that because 00:40:36.602 --> 00:40:37.522 I'm going to do a quick check-in. 00:40:37.702 --> 00:40:42.122 Actually, I don't agree that I should have known or what's wrong with me. Nothing. 00:40:42.442 --> 00:40:45.662 And you do that over time. And here's the part that I don't know if this sounds 00:40:45.662 --> 00:40:47.262 good or bad, but over time, 00:40:47.742 --> 00:40:50.982 what it feels like to be you your implicit memory which 00:40:50.982 --> 00:40:54.022 is built on the very slow residue of your lived experience the things 00:40:54.022 --> 00:40:56.962 you think and do and interact and say to yourself that if 00:40:56.962 --> 00:41:00.222 you can start to notice and and make those small changes 00:41:00.222 --> 00:41:03.322 like we talked about earlier then what it can feel like to be you even 00:41:03.322 --> 00:41:06.062 on the inside can start to really really change and i will be 00:41:06.062 --> 00:41:09.002 honest with you i did not know that that was even a thing until 00:41:09.002 --> 00:41:12.202 it becomes a thing and then i don't have 00:41:12.202 --> 00:41:14.922 that inner voice that's the what's wrong with me and i still 00:41:14.922 --> 00:41:18.022 do plenty of dumb things every day but uh 00:41:18.022 --> 00:41:21.082 yeah but even today i looked for 00:41:21.082 --> 00:41:24.262 a remote control that would move a teleprompter 00:41:24.262 --> 00:41:30.322 30 minutes in my office i have teleprompter software yeah and i have this little 00:41:30.322 --> 00:41:34.622 remote control stump found it but the whole time i was noticing that i was could 00:41:34.622 --> 00:41:37.842 have been frustrated i was and i was taking great delight and finding other 00:41:37.842 --> 00:41:41.732 things in the bottom of my backpack and then at 30 minutes later i just okay, 00:41:42.152 --> 00:41:44.812 I am not going to find that to that remote. That is happening. 00:41:45.748 --> 00:41:48.628 Check that out check that out really it was 00:41:48.628 --> 00:41:51.488 okay yeah you didn't hit anything no i didn't i ate a chocolate chip 00:41:51.488 --> 00:41:54.928 muffin top though oh yeah because i did find that in 00:41:54.928 --> 00:41:57.808 your backpack and you ate it no i found it on the stool 00:41:57.808 --> 00:42:00.648 beside me okay from when i bought it um why 00:42:00.648 --> 00:42:03.668 do the people in my life who need therapy the most don't go it's 00:42:03.668 --> 00:42:06.248 frustrating it's super frustrating what do you think they have 00:42:06.248 --> 00:42:09.688 the most work to do and it's too oh it's 00:42:09.688 --> 00:42:12.808 too scary or upsetting for them 00:42:12.808 --> 00:42:15.728 to have to acknowledge that they need the help 00:42:15.728 --> 00:42:18.428 it is interesting they're so far into it that 00:42:18.428 --> 00:42:21.308 it's it's just like we 00:42:21.308 --> 00:42:24.548 need i don't know i feel like like with the narcissist if 00:42:24.548 --> 00:42:27.368 they've confabulated things so far then they don't even think 00:42:27.368 --> 00:42:30.348 that they need help that's a great i see what you're saying you know yeah yeah that's actually 00:42:30.348 --> 00:42:33.188 what yeah what mackey's saying the confabulation thing is an amazing thing what 00:42:33.188 --> 00:42:35.848 we do with our own memory the stories we tell ourselves here i'm talking about the 00:42:35.848 --> 00:42:38.788 good version i'm okay i'm not broken i'm human but if 00:42:38.788 --> 00:42:41.768 it's the i'm never wrong i don't need therapy you need 00:42:41.768 --> 00:42:45.108 therapy now i'm projecting shadow self yeah 00:42:45.108 --> 00:42:47.968 that's the thing yeah because if they would because if 00:42:47.968 --> 00:42:50.688 i would need therapy so many people do the all or nothing 00:42:50.688 --> 00:42:53.508 black or white stuff so much where they're thinking okay if i need therapy then 00:42:53.508 --> 00:42:55.908 that means that i have to admit that there are things that i might have done 00:42:55.908 --> 00:43:00.208 or that i do that that people aren't happy about and then all of a sudden everyone 00:43:00.208 --> 00:43:05.148 is gonna think that i've done that i'm bad or there's so many so much too overwhelming 00:43:05.148 --> 00:43:10.948 to even be a thing so then they just don't it really is huh okay where do we go Oh. 00:43:11.828 --> 00:43:14.548 It's a lot. Okay. Ooh, oh. 00:43:15.288 --> 00:43:18.208 Wait, does this one fit you at all? Any ideas how to deal with an older sibling 00:43:18.208 --> 00:43:20.248 who is controlling? Have you met my older sibling? 00:43:21.548 --> 00:43:24.708 She's the nicest person. Okay. I'm not saying it in a bad way. 00:43:25.008 --> 00:43:29.728 She is so nice. Like, have you seen her? No. Yeah, yeah. I have the nicest older sibling, so I, that. 00:43:30.498 --> 00:43:35.398 I don't know. Yeah, okay. Did you ever relate to that? Yeah, well, no. 00:43:36.938 --> 00:43:41.458 Okay. And I was like, my older sibling and I just, we didn't really talk much. 00:43:41.818 --> 00:43:45.138 So I think if I were just, if I'm just giving generic advice, 00:43:45.338 --> 00:43:49.818 generic advice, throwaway advice, whatever, but not really trying to say that. 00:43:49.938 --> 00:43:54.538 But it goes back to that concept that maybe tonight's theme of becoming differentiated, 00:43:54.798 --> 00:43:57.498 of trying to maintain a connection while holding on to your sense of self, 00:43:57.578 --> 00:43:58.678 which is going to mean boundaries. 00:43:58.678 --> 00:44:03.438 So if the older sibling is controlling, then you will most likely need to find 00:44:03.438 --> 00:44:06.918 a way to start to do things on your own. 00:44:07.058 --> 00:44:11.938 And the unfortunate part is a controlling person is typically controlling because 00:44:11.938 --> 00:44:14.638 it gives them this false sense of self. 00:44:14.818 --> 00:44:18.438 They feel like if they are controlling someone, that then they will... 00:44:18.438 --> 00:44:19.998 Oh, there's a therapist there too. 00:44:21.618 --> 00:44:28.978 She's an AMFT? Yeah, Associate Marriage and Family Therapist. In North? NorCal. 00:44:29.718 --> 00:44:33.678 Tessa. Northern California. Okay. And you buy some building clientele. 00:44:33.998 --> 00:44:36.738 Send me an email, first of all. Tony at TonyOverBay.com. 00:44:37.118 --> 00:44:40.578 And where are you at? In NorCal. And I like trying to help other therapists. 00:44:40.838 --> 00:44:42.398 But advice on building clientele. 00:44:42.798 --> 00:44:44.958 Here's, okay. I would love to know your thoughts on this for real. 00:44:45.118 --> 00:44:48.198 Because this is something that when I was a brand new... Roseville! 00:44:48.438 --> 00:44:50.298 Oh, that's where my... I'm at Roseville. 00:44:50.658 --> 00:44:53.878 Okay. Tessa, are you near me at all? I have an office in Rockland that I go 00:44:53.878 --> 00:44:56.898 to every other Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Let's see. Okay. 00:44:58.710 --> 00:45:01.330 Okay reach out to me that's crazy i know that's cool so i have an 00:45:01.330 --> 00:45:04.010 office in rockland i've got an office in arizona but i go back to rockland every other 00:45:04.010 --> 00:45:06.790 week lead hill do you know where that is yes where i am 00:45:06.790 --> 00:45:09.590 what no no i'm lone tree 00:45:09.590 --> 00:45:14.890 i know where lead hill is i used to be near lead hill yeah okay now i guess 00:45:14.890 --> 00:45:18.370 it's not scary to say i grew up in lincoln yeah is that a lot because we don't 00:45:18.370 --> 00:45:21.690 live there oh yeah yeah but but here's the here's the thing i want to throw 00:45:21.690 --> 00:45:27.570 out there and i think this is one i did i wrote for a newspaper for 10 years for free uh humor column, 00:45:28.070 --> 00:45:31.170 in lincoln in lincoln for for 10 years and 00:45:31.170 --> 00:45:33.910 i would speak places and i just felt like i would 00:45:33.910 --> 00:45:37.150 i spoke a lot huh yeah yeah and and 00:45:37.150 --> 00:45:39.990 i felt like it was just getting your reps in yeah and you just you 00:45:39.990 --> 00:45:42.870 basically just put yourself out there so when people did need 00:45:42.870 --> 00:45:45.930 yeah therapy it's like they knew of you yeah 00:45:45.930 --> 00:45:48.650 you know so then i feel like people like i feel like people just knew 00:45:48.650 --> 00:45:51.510 your name well enough at some point where if they ever 00:45:51.510 --> 00:45:54.350 had anyone say anything they could be like oh well tony does 00:45:54.350 --> 00:45:57.230 something like that and then i started this podcast i started the 00:45:57.230 --> 00:46:00.090 virtual couch 10 years ago now and there's uh 00:46:00.090 --> 00:46:02.750 oh yeah podcast that's almost 500 episodes and i 00:46:02.750 --> 00:46:06.110 think what is challenging there too tessa is that the 00:46:06.110 --> 00:46:08.970 first 100 episodes i felt kind of silly 00:46:08.970 --> 00:46:12.550 i really did and when people was your podcast oh good okay and so when people 00:46:12.550 --> 00:46:16.430 would say things like oh you're still doing that little podcast thing oh you 00:46:16.430 --> 00:46:20.530 said tick me off on the inside and then and then but i would go speak i would 00:46:20.530 --> 00:46:24.350 speak everywhere and i powered through that of people making you feel and there 00:46:24.350 --> 00:46:27.790 were a couple people that would would say they told me that i was giving away my. 00:46:28.570 --> 00:46:31.530 Whatever i forget and but that were those were people that weren't 00:46:31.530 --> 00:46:34.750 doing it they were people that weren't doing that and now um email 00:46:34.750 --> 00:46:37.510 tony at tony overbay.com tessa reach out you're gonna 00:46:37.510 --> 00:46:40.510 have to come on a podcast that'll be fun um but 00:46:40.510 --> 00:46:43.350 at that point though then you were just put getting in the reps and 00:46:43.350 --> 00:46:47.430 consistency and now because what is it for is it like word of mouth is that 00:46:47.430 --> 00:46:51.190 your most are like referrals or what i mean now it's i feel like for what i 00:46:51.190 --> 00:46:55.310 do it's social media but i feel like therapy is not as much therapy i mean still 00:46:55.310 --> 00:46:58.270 though i don't know i don't know so i've got a wait list i get i get a whole 00:46:58.270 --> 00:47:01.930 bunch of referrals it's really yeah anyway actually i probably could. 00:47:06.192 --> 00:47:09.792 I hope he calls. Yeah, I hope he calls her. Okay. Oh, and Tessa said she loves 00:47:09.792 --> 00:47:13.592 the naming it thing that you're talking about. Oh, good. What's DBT? 00:47:15.412 --> 00:47:18.212 I don't know enough about DBT, Sophie. 00:47:18.452 --> 00:47:20.752 That's one thing that really, it's dialectical behavioral therapy, 00:47:20.892 --> 00:47:24.692 DBT. And it's used a lot with things like borderline personality disorder. 00:47:24.972 --> 00:47:30.452 But DBT, there's a couple of things that I just wish I knew more about, and I really don't. 00:47:30.552 --> 00:47:33.312 As a matter of fact, if there's a therapist that listens to this. 00:47:33.732 --> 00:47:37.032 Oh, how's your little therapy thing? if there's a if somebody 00:47:37.032 --> 00:47:39.752 knows of a good dbt therapist please have them reach 00:47:39.752 --> 00:47:42.552 out to me i've never interviewed one on my podcast and i would really like 00:47:42.552 --> 00:47:47.092 to do that yeah okay wait what's a lucy i've thought about being a therapist 00:47:47.092 --> 00:47:49.892 but i'm worried about getting to attach the clients that's a great that's a 00:47:49.892 --> 00:47:54.112 great thought i remember in grad school there was a keep up those boundaries 00:47:54.112 --> 00:48:00.252 yeah how to keep up the balance um it i've never thought about that there was there was a i had a. 00:48:01.112 --> 00:48:04.072 One of my professors was absent and there was a substitute 00:48:04.072 --> 00:48:06.912 that came in one night and she literally talked about she had 00:48:06.912 --> 00:48:10.312 adopted a couple of kids that she had worked with as a therapist like that's 00:48:10.312 --> 00:48:13.312 got to be a bound that's got to be ethical is that allowed i don't think so i 00:48:13.312 --> 00:48:16.772 mean that's what i remember we all thought like what yeah yeah but it 00:48:16.772 --> 00:48:19.632 really is making sure that you i used to be in a there 00:48:19.632 --> 00:48:22.832 like a therapist like a bunch of us would talk about things and now 00:48:22.832 --> 00:48:26.152 i have a couple of associates and so you do group supervision and 00:48:26.152 --> 00:48:29.032 so a therapist is typically gonna maybe have their own therapy group 00:48:29.032 --> 00:48:31.852 or they're gonna do their own therapy or they're going 00:48:31.852 --> 00:48:34.752 to be able to talk about things and that's one of the best 00:48:34.752 --> 00:48:38.852 things that you can do is to have somebody that you can that can kind of check 00:48:38.852 --> 00:48:44.632 you because you can care a lot about other people as well i was like just like 00:48:44.632 --> 00:48:48.152 reading i'm reading over your thing so then i was like you can care about stuff 00:48:48.152 --> 00:48:53.732 okay let's do a couple more but yeah you gotta we're almost gonna we'll go an hour. 10 more minutes. 00:48:54.232 --> 00:48:57.292 Okay, wait, do you want to do this? At the virtual couch. 00:48:58.852 --> 00:49:00.132 Oh, there's so many good ones. 00:49:01.052 --> 00:49:03.652 Okay, there's one that, what does it mean when it has a little thing? 00:49:03.652 --> 00:49:07.812 If it senses anything that might be, like, not okay, it does that, 00:49:07.872 --> 00:49:08.692 and then we get to approve it. 00:49:08.772 --> 00:49:13.012 Yeah, so there's somebody that says, what about dealing with corn? 00:49:13.852 --> 00:49:17.512 This guy wrote a book about it. In your marriage. And that's one where, 00:49:17.812 --> 00:49:22.572 another one where, email me at tony at tonyoverbay.com, because I'm working 00:49:22.572 --> 00:49:24.452 on an episode right now about that. 00:49:24.672 --> 00:49:31.832 I have a lot of thoughts. And you have a book. I do have a book called He's a Corn Addict. Now what? 00:49:32.052 --> 00:49:35.432 An expert and a former addict answer your questions. I play the role of the expert. 00:49:35.712 --> 00:49:40.252 And Joshua Shea, who has a big following on TikTok as well, is that he's the 00:49:40.252 --> 00:49:41.632 addict. And it's a really good book. 00:49:41.752 --> 00:49:45.192 And it's available on all the things. But email him. Yeah, do. Yeah. 00:49:45.712 --> 00:49:49.212 Okay. Oh, okay. Emma Kate, I've come to the conclusion that my husband has a 00:49:49.212 --> 00:49:50.732 set idea of who he believes I am. 00:49:51.072 --> 00:49:54.512 That's such a great way to put that. But it's him assuming the worst. 00:49:54.772 --> 00:49:57.632 Yeah. And that's one where there's so much there. 00:49:57.832 --> 00:50:03.152 So we, when we get in, remember, we talked to Emma last time. Oh, yeah, I know Emma. 00:50:03.912 --> 00:50:07.372 Yeah. Okay. I do know. Yeah. Okay. With Emma. 00:50:07.792 --> 00:50:11.892 So we, when we're in relationships, basically we are putting out a version of 00:50:11.892 --> 00:50:16.092 ourselves and we're saying to the other person, you think this is who I am. Right. 00:50:16.632 --> 00:50:19.952 And then when that person is reacting maybe differently to us, 00:50:20.052 --> 00:50:23.672 then that's that whole concept of the, okay, I'm going to, self-confront and 00:50:23.672 --> 00:50:25.532 say, okay, is this who I am? 00:50:25.952 --> 00:50:28.992 But that doesn't mean that just because that person sees you a certain way, 00:50:29.172 --> 00:50:31.312 that that is who you are. Does that make sense? 00:50:32.290 --> 00:50:36.010 If they see you that way, that doesn't automatically mean that. 00:50:36.150 --> 00:50:37.450 Yeah. Like if I walk around. 00:50:37.910 --> 00:50:41.990 You're still yourself. Yeah. Regardless of what they've decided you are in their mind. 00:50:42.130 --> 00:50:46.770 And so what that becomes, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your relationship, 00:50:47.010 --> 00:50:52.830 that is your opportunity to decide, is there truth in how this person perceives you? 00:50:53.130 --> 00:50:57.610 Or do you know who you are? And I ultimately say, you do. 00:50:57.890 --> 00:51:01.370 And lately I'm throwing some numbers on it. So, I want you to look at yourself 00:51:01.370 --> 00:51:05.750 as with a 90% solid, maybe 10% flexible sense of self. 00:51:05.930 --> 00:51:08.010 So, you ultimately know who you are. 00:51:08.530 --> 00:51:12.290 And so, when somebody says, well, I think you're somebody else. Oh, do you now? 00:51:12.630 --> 00:51:15.730 That's the 10%. You hold on to that 90%. Exactly. And say, okay, 00:51:15.830 --> 00:51:22.050 I'm willing to hear you, but there's a 90% chance that I know myself better. Yeah. Yeah. 00:51:22.550 --> 00:51:27.030 Because I think so often when somebody feels insecure in the relationship, 00:51:27.370 --> 00:51:32.190 they maybe are coming at it with a 30% solid, 70% flexible sense of self. 00:51:32.430 --> 00:51:36.190 And then they're asking everybody, who do you think I am? How do you think I should do this? 00:51:36.790 --> 00:51:40.050 Right? Yeah. And we make jokes about that. Like, remember at the restaurant 00:51:40.050 --> 00:51:42.270 last night when you said, where are you guys? 00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:45.870 In our seats. because i was like 00:51:45.870 --> 00:51:49.010 oh you'll walk into the restaurant and you will see us funny i 00:51:49.010 --> 00:51:51.830 have well i don't have sometimes i get anxious and 00:51:51.830 --> 00:51:57.270 i like to know things prior okay yeah emailed my social psychology press professor 00:51:57.270 --> 00:52:00.290 all your information because i was telling her how much i love you all and oh 00:52:00.290 --> 00:52:04.330 my gosh you are the best thank you okay that's cute and nice i know that really 00:52:04.330 --> 00:52:09.930 is okay let's do some more we got seven minutes mackie because i know you have 00:52:09.930 --> 00:52:10.850 things that you want to go do, 00:52:12.009 --> 00:52:17.189 You have a life, apparently. Not really. I have one friend. Okay. 00:52:18.529 --> 00:52:22.649 Oh, that... How about that one? Can you speak to that? Okay, Carl 400. 00:52:22.789 --> 00:52:26.589 Dating somebody with past trauma, meaning being cheated on and having trust issues. 00:52:27.609 --> 00:52:34.729 This is a great question. Because we bring our past relationships and our past 00:52:34.729 --> 00:52:37.589 worries and fears into the current relationship. 00:52:37.769 --> 00:52:41.709 Because it's what you know. It's what you know. So it is, you got to give people 00:52:41.709 --> 00:52:46.689 grace with that because it is just what you know and it's hard to just throw that away. 00:52:47.169 --> 00:52:50.349 But I think you need to be able to communicate about it. So let's say this is 00:52:50.349 --> 00:52:54.789 where there's another, so I do a lot in the world of narcissism and emotional immaturity. 00:52:54.949 --> 00:52:57.809 Go check out the Waking Up to Narcissism podcast, which is actually bigger than 00:52:57.809 --> 00:52:58.829 the Virtual Couch podcast. 00:52:59.649 --> 00:53:03.089 But there's another narcissism expert named Dr. 00:53:03.469 --> 00:53:06.309 Ramani. And she talked one time, and I like this. 00:53:06.409 --> 00:53:09.189 I've got my own version of this. where she talked about she called it 00:53:09.189 --> 00:53:12.549 there's a narcissist and then there's a lesser narcissist so i 00:53:12.549 --> 00:53:15.289 like to say there's somebody that's incredibly emotionally immature and they're most 00:53:15.289 --> 00:53:18.509 likely in a relationship with somebody that is is also immature 00:53:18.509 --> 00:53:21.489 that's why we find each other and so when you let's 00:53:21.489 --> 00:53:24.369 say you get out of the relationship with the really narcissistic person 00:53:24.369 --> 00:53:27.049 or the really emotionally immature and now you 00:53:27.049 --> 00:53:30.609 get into a relationship with somebody that's we'll call them more normal and 00:53:30.609 --> 00:53:33.289 now you're the one yeah because of what happened to you in 00:53:33.289 --> 00:53:36.269 this relationship so now when this person says hey i'm 00:53:36.269 --> 00:53:39.169 gonna go hang out with my friends all of a sudden you're like what does 00:53:39.169 --> 00:53:42.049 that mean because when this person said i'm gonna go hang out with my friends 00:53:42.049 --> 00:53:44.729 it did not mean they were hanging out with their friends yeah i fear this is 00:53:44.729 --> 00:53:47.789 me it is most people i'm learning this right 00:53:47.789 --> 00:53:50.589 now right so now when they're like hey i'm gonna i'm gonna 00:53:50.589 --> 00:53:53.369 take a nap i'll get back to you later and you're texting and 00:53:53.369 --> 00:53:56.229 texting and texting and all of a sudden they're like i said 00:53:56.229 --> 00:53:59.029 i would like talk to you later right and so that's 00:53:59.029 --> 00:54:02.049 the one where the reason i'm bringing that up is i think so for carl yeah oh 00:54:02.049 --> 00:54:04.929 oh lena great advice there lots of honesty patience and 00:54:04.929 --> 00:54:08.109 reassurance and i appreciate lena you saying the reassurance because 00:54:08.109 --> 00:54:11.049 i think a lot of times people will jump right to the well i shouldn't have to 00:54:11.049 --> 00:54:16.029 calm their anxiety or i shouldn't have to be that's a them issue no if you're 00:54:16.029 --> 00:54:21.269 in a relationship yeah yeah it is part of committing to that relationship is 00:54:21.269 --> 00:54:25.889 accepting that the other person has i don't want to say baggage but has had. 00:54:26.529 --> 00:54:30.449 Experiences and feels different than you do because they're a different person 00:54:30.449 --> 00:54:33.049 than you. So hopefully they can say okay, check this out. 00:54:33.429 --> 00:54:36.869 And then you can both be curious and come together and heal. 00:54:36.869 --> 00:54:37.729 There it is. There's the puzzle. 00:54:38.489 --> 00:54:42.689 You can help each other heal and then grow stronger in your relationship. 00:54:42.969 --> 00:54:47.289 Absolutely. So if you can have the courage that takes courage. So the reassurance is. 00:54:49.023 --> 00:54:55.123 Should be just a thing. It shouldn't be something that you're fighting or not willing to give. Yeah. 00:54:55.723 --> 00:54:58.843 Yeah. And Danielle brings up a good point that we can integrate in here. 00:54:58.923 --> 00:55:01.323 I feel like knowing yourself is hard because isn't that ever changing? 00:55:01.563 --> 00:55:03.863 Absolutely. Because it's the first time that you are in these situations. 00:55:04.043 --> 00:55:04.883 And you should be changing. 00:55:04.983 --> 00:55:07.523 That's good. That's growing. It is. So when you're in the relationship and all 00:55:07.523 --> 00:55:10.483 of a sudden now, when that person says, I'm going to hang out with my friends, 00:55:10.583 --> 00:55:12.623 do you have the courage to say, Hey, check this out. 00:55:12.923 --> 00:55:15.343 Oh, and Lena, a good partner can be very healing. So check this out. 00:55:15.403 --> 00:55:17.183 When you say that, here's where I go. 00:55:17.443 --> 00:55:20.063 Because if that partner says well geez i guess i'll never go 00:55:20.063 --> 00:55:22.923 out with my friends again right run is that 00:55:22.923 --> 00:55:25.763 too extreme but if you're but if they're 00:55:25.763 --> 00:55:28.843 like oh man tell me about that what's that what's that like yeah carl 00:55:28.843 --> 00:55:32.043 been with her five years and there's still some times where she has the fear of cheating the 00:55:32.043 --> 00:55:34.863 sometimes is the question i'd have carl because that's fair 00:55:34.863 --> 00:55:38.263 um i think a lot of times when people have been hurt they're especially 00:55:38.263 --> 00:55:41.523 to as somebody that has been cheated on it does some 00:55:41.523 --> 00:55:44.763 damage like because you 00:55:44.763 --> 00:55:47.483 can be with the like you can be with a partner that you 00:55:47.483 --> 00:55:50.383 completely trust wholeheartedly and that 00:55:50.383 --> 00:55:54.123 still or that pain pops up 00:55:54.123 --> 00:55:57.003 sometimes and it's very or personally for me 00:55:57.003 --> 00:56:01.103 like having feeling that being with a good partner that I do trust it's very 00:56:01.103 --> 00:56:06.443 frustrating like all I'm saying is give her some grace because it's very frustrating 00:56:06.443 --> 00:56:11.743 when those feelings come up and you can logically say i know that my partner 00:56:11.743 --> 00:56:14.823 would not do these things yeah but there's still this. 00:56:16.103 --> 00:56:18.943 Thanks okay trauma there's or like this or it's 00:56:18.943 --> 00:56:22.043 a thought and it does pop in your head and then it's hard to let that thought 00:56:22.043 --> 00:56:25.843 go i would say though you've done a nice job though bringing you had the courage 00:56:25.843 --> 00:56:29.723 to be known yeah right because it is it's just about communicating and so i 00:56:29.723 --> 00:56:37.343 feel like if anything that is like a you're allowed to open up that conversation with her yeah and. 00:56:39.016 --> 00:56:41.736 Do you believe that fear will ever go away or she'll still live with it 00:56:41.736 --> 00:56:44.856 it's a great question i really think there's a old proverb or 00:56:44.856 --> 00:56:48.096 that i like where it was uh it's where 00:56:48.096 --> 00:56:50.836 okay so this person comes and they go to the 00:56:50.836 --> 00:56:55.276 it's like a i want to say a chinese proverb or buddhist proverb where the person 00:56:55.276 --> 00:56:59.416 goes to their master and they say okay they pour salt in a glass of water and 00:56:59.416 --> 00:57:03.496 they have them drink of it with a straw the water is really salty then they 00:57:03.496 --> 00:57:06.136 go to a lake which this is a part that i think is kind of gross because they're 00:57:06.136 --> 00:57:08.296 going to drink out of the lake but that's maybe my ADHD talking, 00:57:08.516 --> 00:57:11.056 but then they go back and they pour the same amount of salt in the lake. 00:57:11.136 --> 00:57:14.456 And then he says, okay, drink from a straw in there. And then you can't taste any of the salt. 00:57:14.716 --> 00:57:16.716 So it's like the salt's still in there, but you're starting, 00:57:16.776 --> 00:57:18.056 you make that much room for it. 00:57:18.136 --> 00:57:21.636 So the more trust you have in the relationship over time and the more that you're 00:57:21.636 --> 00:57:25.276 able to, and I was going to say earlier too, I use this phrase a lot in my couple's 00:57:25.276 --> 00:57:26.576 therapy of testing for safety. 00:57:26.896 --> 00:57:29.876 And I think it's okay to, for the guy in this situation, Carl, 00:57:29.976 --> 00:57:33.836 you to know that on occasion she may still just throw out a test for safety. 00:57:34.456 --> 00:57:39.376 And when it's not that she's saying she doesn't trust you or saying she really 00:57:39.376 --> 00:57:41.216 thinks you're going to do something like that. 00:57:41.376 --> 00:57:46.596 But it is like a, yeah, it's that fear of abandonment and fear of getting hurt and all of that. 00:57:46.736 --> 00:57:49.276 So if you are showing up in a human who feels things, right. 00:57:49.396 --> 00:57:52.356 And if you're, and if you're solid, this is where I like, if you're solid with 00:57:52.356 --> 00:57:56.316 yourself, then if, if she is testing for safety, then I'm going to say, 00:57:56.396 --> 00:58:00.196 man, I appreciate you sharing that. That would be hard if you still find yourself. 00:58:00.556 --> 00:58:02.496 And you can have that conversation. 00:58:03.916 --> 00:58:05.436 Now, honestly, and I don't know your situation. 00:58:06.563 --> 00:58:11.103 I did an episode on attachment. Go find it on the virtual couch a couple of weeks ago. 00:58:11.203 --> 00:58:14.723 And I talked about your attachment orientation. So we still talked about anxious 00:58:14.723 --> 00:58:17.663 attachment, avoidant attachment, disorganized attachment. 00:58:17.863 --> 00:58:21.103 But the reason I did it was because there's some new research that came out 00:58:21.103 --> 00:58:23.623 that's talking about, let's call it your attachment orientation. 00:58:23.883 --> 00:58:28.063 And it's the way that you bring your attachment issues into the relationship, 00:58:28.063 --> 00:58:30.183 but you can change them with that awareness. 00:58:30.183 --> 00:58:33.763 But the reason I did the whole podcast was based on one line that talked about 00:58:33.763 --> 00:58:37.003 remembering that the things you're bringing into the relationship ultimately 00:58:37.003 --> 00:58:39.003 are things that you are carrying from your childhood. 00:58:39.243 --> 00:58:41.063 So I have seen situations where 00:58:41.063 --> 00:58:43.943 somebody can show up and this is why differentiation is so beautiful. 00:58:44.063 --> 00:58:47.463 I can show up and be the very best version of myself. I can choose myself. 00:58:47.463 --> 00:58:49.663 I can stay grounded. I can not play small. 00:58:49.843 --> 00:58:52.303 I can own my own stuff. I can make changes. 00:58:52.543 --> 00:58:55.623 And that person may still not choose me. 00:58:56.103 --> 00:58:59.743 And that's and ultimately that is a them issue. and 00:58:59.743 --> 00:59:02.923 that's hard because I've worked with a couple of people in particular lately 00:59:02.923 --> 00:59:05.783 that have shown up the very best version of their self 00:59:05.783 --> 00:59:09.603 and the other person is I think wounded from 00:59:09.603 --> 00:59:13.603 childhood that then they still cannot be 00:59:13.603 --> 00:59:16.303 in the relationship and a lot of times when we 00:59:16.303 --> 00:59:19.363 get into relationships we're so codependent we're so enmeshed because 00:59:19.363 --> 00:59:22.943 we're everybody's immature going into relationships because 00:59:22.943 --> 00:59:26.003 we don't know we don't know and then you go through things and you get the tools and 00:59:26.003 --> 00:59:29.003 you start to communicate more effectively but then your partner may 00:59:29.003 --> 00:59:31.763 still not trust or they may still have really 00:59:31.763 --> 00:59:35.423 difficult situations that they still project 00:59:35.423 --> 00:59:39.423 onto you or do you see i'm going there yeah yeah 00:59:39.423 --> 00:59:42.663 it's complicated it is but i 00:59:42.663 --> 00:59:46.163 mean with that is the relationship ever easy or is it always a fixer-upper that's 00:59:46.163 --> 00:59:49.523 like i like the fixer-upper part because at some points yeah it's two 00:59:49.523 --> 00:59:52.243 imperfect people coming together and trying to build a 00:59:52.243 --> 00:59:55.583 life with each other and there is always going to be i don't 00:59:55.583 --> 01:00:00.023 think it doesn't mean there has to be screaming and yelling and fighting and 01:00:00.023 --> 01:00:04.403 anything like that but it doesn't mean that things are just going to be perfect 01:00:04.403 --> 01:00:07.063 and easy well chris i'll catch you before we go real quick i've seen you've 01:00:07.063 --> 01:00:10.863 said that before yeah but it's not gonna be perfect and easy 24 7 and there 01:00:10.863 --> 01:00:13.363 are gonna be like it's gonna ebb and flow of. 01:00:14.143 --> 01:00:17.423 All the things yeah and that's that can 01:00:17.423 --> 01:00:20.503 still be normal and healthy yeah but that doesn't mean just assume if 01:00:20.503 --> 01:00:23.583 there is screaming and yelling and constant fighting that that's not 01:00:23.583 --> 01:00:26.863 normal no exactly healthy and so imagine this 01:00:26.863 --> 01:00:30.083 and i'm not even trying to be funny but this is where what it 01:00:30.083 --> 01:00:33.383 is so normal in a relationship to get to the point where all you talk about 01:00:33.383 --> 01:00:36.103 are the things that are easy because the things that are difficult to talk about 01:00:36.103 --> 01:00:41.083 are so hard and it's because we didn't learn how to we're so afraid of contention 01:00:41.083 --> 01:00:44.603 that we avoid tension in the relationship altogether and so learning that growth 01:00:44.603 --> 01:00:49.383 comes from the discomfort learning how to self-soothe and to show up and know that. 01:00:50.422 --> 01:00:54.782 It's easier to run away from my anxiety and my fear than to confront it. 01:00:54.902 --> 01:00:58.782 But when you start to get, I always say you get your reps and repetitions, 01:00:58.782 --> 01:01:02.342 your practice in becoming differentiated, that you over time, 01:01:02.562 --> 01:01:04.582 again, things take a lot longer than we think. 01:01:04.742 --> 01:01:08.842 But over time, when you notice that you are wanting to have a difficult conversation 01:01:08.842 --> 01:01:12.362 rather than kicking that can down the road and saying, you know what, I'll do it later. 01:01:12.662 --> 01:01:18.122 Then you know that, okay, we're going to learn more about each other through this conversation. 01:01:18.122 --> 01:01:20.942 And that's where really go find me on 01:01:20.942 --> 01:01:24.302 the virtual couch look up my four pillars of a connected conversation because 01:01:24.302 --> 01:01:27.282 there i have an amazing framework where i'm assuming 01:01:27.282 --> 01:01:30.022 good intentions that person is not trying to hurt me 01:01:30.022 --> 01:01:32.802 with the way they're showing up it is making me uncomfortable i 01:01:32.802 --> 01:01:35.542 can't tell them they're wrong or i don't believe them even if i think they're wrong or 01:01:35.542 --> 01:01:38.322 i don't believe them because if i start going down that path we're going to go out in the weeds 01:01:38.322 --> 01:01:41.062 and we're just going to start and tip for tat and then i'm 01:01:41.062 --> 01:01:44.022 going to go into questions before comments i'm going to be curious i'm 01:01:44.022 --> 01:01:46.722 going to say tell me more about that what is that like for you but i got to 01:01:46.722 --> 01:01:49.662 step out of my own ego it's going to be really awkward and then i'm going to stay present i'm 01:01:49.662 --> 01:01:52.362 not going to go into a victim mindset and anyway there's a lot 01:01:52.362 --> 01:01:55.382 there and i've got a marriage course update coming out soon and 01:01:55.382 --> 01:01:58.482 leave it there yeah that one right okay chris thanks 01:01:58.482 --> 01:02:03.662 for sticking with us because i i have a severe adhd um i have temporary paralysis 01:02:03.662 --> 01:02:07.502 from severe adhd and anxiety advice so one of the best things i think you can 01:02:07.502 --> 01:02:12.882 do if you've been diagnosed with adhd please read the book ADHD 2.0 by Hallowell 01:02:12.882 --> 01:02:15.422 and Rattay. I make jokes often and I say it's my Bible. 01:02:16.322 --> 01:02:21.262 It's an amazing book because there are so many things about ADHD that I think 01:02:21.262 --> 01:02:22.542 we're learning more about now. 01:02:22.842 --> 01:02:28.402 It has some of the best concepts where ADHD, it's like we have a Ferrari engine 01:02:28.402 --> 01:02:29.522 and we have bicycle brakes. 01:02:29.862 --> 01:02:33.862 It's that we have to find the right kind of difficult. It's understanding that 01:02:33.862 --> 01:02:36.462 what executive functioning challenges really look like. 01:02:36.562 --> 01:02:39.442 There's this teeter-totter of thinking and doing thinking and 01:02:39.442 --> 01:02:42.482 doing and apparently people can think about things and 01:02:42.482 --> 01:02:45.282 not want to do something else or do things and not think about something 01:02:45.282 --> 01:02:48.062 else but the adhd brain our teeter-totter kind 01:02:48.062 --> 01:02:51.322 of broke so when i'm thinking about something all of a sudden i think i want 01:02:51.322 --> 01:02:54.362 to do something else look at that and when i'm doing something all of a sudden 01:02:54.362 --> 01:02:57.962 that makes me want to think about something else and so it's accepting and learning 01:02:57.962 --> 01:03:01.862 how to deal with those wonderful challenges when you find the right kind of 01:03:01.862 --> 01:03:05.442 difficult then you really can thrive and it's interesting because 01:03:05.522 --> 01:03:08.982 there's some thought where people want to call it VAST, 01:03:09.082 --> 01:03:12.882 variable attention stimulus trait, rather than attention deficit disorder. 01:03:13.792 --> 01:03:17.232 It's not in a deficit of attention when you find the right kind of difficult. 01:03:17.552 --> 01:03:20.672 And then when you can do something until all of a sudden you don't want to do it. 01:03:20.772 --> 01:03:24.252 And that's been one of the greatest things for me personally is I spent 10 years 01:03:24.252 --> 01:03:26.152 in a career I hated, the computer industry. 01:03:26.392 --> 01:03:31.492 And when I found therapy, all of a sudden I get to see a client and then another 01:03:31.492 --> 01:03:33.132 one is completely different and then another one. 01:03:33.252 --> 01:03:35.952 And then I can write and I can go speak and I can do a podcast. 01:03:36.272 --> 01:03:41.052 And you're finding that right kind of difficult. And then there's so many things in that book as well. 01:03:41.052 --> 01:03:44.232 The concepts around rejection sensitivity that those 01:03:44.232 --> 01:03:47.192 of us with adhd we were told no some believe 10 01:03:47.192 --> 01:03:50.192 to 20 000 times more by the time we were 12 or 13 or 01:03:50.192 --> 01:03:53.132 whatever it is even just not just like no but not now 01:03:53.132 --> 01:03:57.572 buddy or you know you seem like a whole lot and so we have anticipatory rejection 01:03:57.572 --> 01:04:01.792 so we're sometimes going into things anticipating rejection which can cause 01:04:01.792 --> 01:04:06.792 anxiety which can cause a temporary paralysis and and then they have a beautiful 01:04:06.792 --> 01:04:10.852 section on connection vitamin c that we really do need connection with others, 01:04:11.052 --> 01:04:13.852 but it can be difficult again because of that rejection sensitivity. 01:04:14.112 --> 01:04:19.052 And ADHD, if you really have it, is one of the most efficacious. 01:04:19.172 --> 01:04:22.492 It's one of the most successfully things treated through medication. 01:04:22.852 --> 01:04:25.772 And that section alone talks about how people with. 01:04:26.712 --> 01:04:29.472 Undiagnosed or untreated ADHD, it's a 01:04:29.472 --> 01:04:32.872 significant portion that turned to unhealthy coping 01:04:32.872 --> 01:04:35.692 mechanisms because we do we just we 01:04:35.692 --> 01:04:38.532 we are impulsive there sometimes it's 01:04:38.532 --> 01:04:41.372 the fun kind of impulsive other times it's the not so fun kind 01:04:41.372 --> 01:04:44.292 so there's a lot there that can be done and and is 01:04:44.292 --> 01:04:47.612 your contact yeah yeah yeah and as 01:04:47.612 --> 01:04:50.872 a again as a card carrying member of the adhd club 01:04:50.872 --> 01:04:53.792 which i didn't get my diagnosis till nine ten years ago 01:04:53.792 --> 01:04:58.412 in my mid-40s it's i i do i that's one of the biggest things where when i say 01:04:58.412 --> 01:05:02.292 i have to accept the fact that i can i wish i would have gotten my diagnosis 01:05:02.292 --> 01:05:07.592 sooner so do everything you can to find out more about adhd and know that it 01:05:07.592 --> 01:05:12.452 can be once you if you have it and you embrace it it's it can be a fun time i'm a pretty fun hang, 01:05:13.063 --> 01:05:15.143 Oh, yeah. I don't think you're paying 01:05:15.143 --> 01:05:19.043 attention. And I feel rejection very sensitively. You're fine. Thank you. 01:05:19.963 --> 01:05:24.683 Okay. Everybody, what a wonderful time. Mackie, thank you for showing up tonight. I appreciate it. 01:05:25.763 --> 01:05:31.123 And we're trying to do these every Sunday night. So if we didn't get to your question, come back. 01:05:31.383 --> 01:05:34.843 Oh, and if Sydney was here, she would say that she's going to put this up on YouTube in a few days. 01:05:35.343 --> 01:05:39.723 And then I put in the thing that you were on here tonight. Go follow you at Mackie. 01:05:41.143 --> 01:05:45.143 Mackie Overbank. And follow her at Mackieoverbay on iwasnay.com, 01:05:45.223 --> 01:05:47.183 but not really. It's on the ticking talk. 01:05:47.843 --> 01:05:50.083 Right? Follow me. Follow you. 01:05:52.843 --> 01:05:58.223 Thanks, Mack. I'm hungry. I'm too. I think that's why I tapped out a little bit. You did good. 01:05:58.643 --> 01:06:01.463 Thanks. Yeah. All right. Here's the part where I awkwardly... 01:06:01.463 --> 01:06:04.623 20 minutes to find the ending it button. Yeah. Okay. 01:06:05.203 --> 01:06:07.963 Thanks, everybody. Have a wonderful time. I was going to say, 01:06:08.063 --> 01:06:10.123 we'll see you next time on the virtual couch. This is not the podcast. 01:06:10.423 --> 01:06:13.803 Wake up to narcissism. Virtual couch. Wait, I've answered, if you're interested 01:06:13.803 --> 01:06:18.503 in talking it, just email contact at tonyoverbay.com. You, yeah. 01:06:18.963 --> 01:06:23.463 And I'm, uh, I'll, yeah, I'll do more Q&A podcast episodes throughout the week as well. 01:06:23.783 --> 01:06:26.023 Have you even thought about, every now and again, I'll get a cancellation and 01:06:26.023 --> 01:06:28.543 somebody will say, oh, I'm so sorry I can't make it, but of course I know I 01:06:28.543 --> 01:06:31.103 have to pay you, which is like the greatest client in the world. 01:06:31.563 --> 01:06:34.063 And in those situations, I've thought, I should just go live and answer questions. 01:06:34.343 --> 01:06:35.683 Yeah, you should. I'd be all by myself. 01:06:37.843 --> 01:06:38.203 What's up? 01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:53.839 Music.