15:47:39:10 - 15:47:59:08 Unknown It's critically important that homeowners understand that roofs are no different than your car. They need maintenance. If you don't do the maintenance on your car, change the well. If you don't take care, change the brakes. Your car is not going to last half its life. Neither is your roof. 15:47:59:10 - 15:48:18:12 Unknown Welcome to the uncommon area where we're dedicated to reimagining HOAs. We provide board members and managers with the resources to create uncommon communities where residents love their home and truly love where they live. 15:48:18:14 - 15:48:30:14 Unknown Welcome to the Uncommon area. I am Matthew Holbrook, and in this episode I am joined by the founder and chief people awakened for Antis Roofing, Charles Antis. 15:48:30:16 - 15:48:35:06 Unknown Charles has been in the industry for quite some time, 15:48:35:08 - 15:48:55:05 Unknown in this episode you will hear a little bit of the background of antis roofing, as well as addressing the big question that I hope is on your mind. And that is what should we be thinking about with the potential coming of an El Nino season, or a rainy season that is much, much heavier than normal? 15:48:55:05 - 15:49:08:11 Unknown And how does that apply to how we might think about the roofs in homeowners associations and in particular condominium associations? So I hope that you check out this episode and find it to be helpful. 15:49:08:13 - 15:49:15:05 Unknown Well, Charles, thank you so much for joining us in the uncommon area. Appreciate you being here. I'm super excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me, Matthew. 15:49:15:05 - 15:49:29:14 Unknown Well, I love this because, well, for lots of reasons, but I know you have your own podcast that you're getting started, and maybe we'll touch on that in a minute. But you get to kind of sit on the other side of the of the microphone, I guess, for this episode. Love 15:49:29:17 - 15:49:35:20 Unknown you have been around in this industry for a little while and like you. 15:49:35:22 - 15:50:05:22 Unknown Well, I think you've been around longer than I have, but I guess we're about to find out. Okay. But I guess where we want to go in this episode is there's a lot in the news right now about us heading into an El Nino season or El Nino weather patterns, and there are some really important implications for homeowners associations, for condo associations, and specifically relating to roofing and water leaks and all kinds of things. 15:50:05:22 - 15:50:24:02 Unknown And we're going to dive into all of that. I want to to get to that. But first, I want to make sure that there's an opportunity to kind of know, what is it that you do, and why would anybody want to listen to your input on this subject? So that's fair. There you go. So I'm going to stop talking here in a minute. 15:50:24:02 - 15:50:29:14 Unknown But I want to to start off with, how did you get involved in this industry and what is it that you 15:50:29:19 - 15:50:53:13 Unknown Thank you for asking, Matthew. I'll tell you straight off what we do, and then I'll tell you how we got into it. We exist at Antis Roofing to keep families safe and dry. We know that today, and it makes a big difference knowing why you exist. But it took a lot to bring that purpose to the company. And so I think that if I was to tell my story, I'd have to go back to when I was young. 15:50:53:13 - 15:51:20:09 Unknown I grew up in the mountains of Oregon, small town where every man that I knew, my dad and all my friends dads worked in the lumber mills or in the woods, cutting trees. And we worked hard. Work was dangerous, though. I always wanted to live in California, and honestly, I didn't want to be a laborer. I wanted I wanted to go to California because when we would go there on vacation, we'd leave our little town of 3000, go to California. 15:51:20:09 - 15:51:50:21 Unknown It was really fun, and I finally got the opportunity to move to California when I was 20. And when I came here, I needed a job and I didn't see myself as a server in a restaurant. I didn't see myself as a salesman. I saw myself as a laborer. So that's how I got into roofing, not knowing anything about it, but looking for a job and the only job I could see that I thought I was capable of doing was that of beginning laborer on a roofing job in Los Angeles. 15:51:50:21 - 15:52:06:16 Unknown And my first job was in West Hollywood, and I went up on a roof, and that was how I got into it. Was that your first time up on a roof to to do that kind of work? I think I snuck up on my mom and dad's roof when I was a little kid, and I got in bad trouble, so, yeah, that was the second time. 15:52:06:20 - 15:52:27:12 Unknown Right. And by the way, you go up there thinking I got a strong back, I can work hard and you start tearing off in LA. You I know you manage a lot of properties in LA. Some of those old buildings have eight layers of roofing on them. And it's hard, hard work. And that's what I remember. It was just what I was used to, what I grew up with hard, dangerous 15:52:27:14 - 15:52:49:23 Unknown But in that time, there was something looking back that changed everything. And it was a day when I'd maybe worked for three weeks hard work on this same condo in West Hollywood. And the owner of the company came up to me that day that I worked for. His name was Tim Curtis. And and he said, hey, Charlie, do you want to go solve a leak where we have a leak on this kitchen area over 301 B? 15:52:49:23 - 15:53:07:16 Unknown Do you want to go solve that? And I said, yeah, you know, because I was working my tail off and I was hot and sweaty and, and I went over to that family and I walked down into their unit and they were so nice to me and I there was something stirring in me, you know, like, this family's being nice to me, and, oh, they want me to repair their lead. 15:53:07:16 - 15:53:20:02 Unknown They show me this leak in their kitchen. They tell me how disruptive it's been. They they don't know if they smell mold. And I, I look at them and I said, I'm going to go repair your leak. And I went up on that roof and I looked right above the leak. And after like five minutes, I saw it. 15:53:20:02 - 15:53:34:10 Unknown I saw where this coping metal came together in between two units, and I took it all apart. And I saw where there was rusty nails, and I goofed it all. And I put all the metal back. And I was so proud. And I went down and told him I got the leak. And the next day at work, my boss came in. 15:53:34:11 - 15:53:54:22 Unknown Hey, Charlie, you saw that leak? And I said, yeah. And I walked him over to it and I was real proud. I remember I was sort of peacocking and I said, look, Tim and I explained what I displayed to you and what I did, and I just remember he looked and he put his elbow up and touched with his hand, touched his chin, and he said, yeah, Charlie, that's going to leak again. 15:53:54:23 - 15:54:19:07 Unknown I said, no, it's not. I did it all right. And he cut me off. He said, Charlie, you put the top piece of metal on first. You put the bottom piece on second, and now it's bucking water. Water will leak into that no matter how good you sealed it. And that that was a tough moment for me because, yeah, maybe we all have some pride and maybe I had extra pride, but I had failed. 15:54:19:09 - 15:54:39:12 Unknown He called me on it. I knew because this guy also told me that everything to do with roofing and flashing is like feathers on a duck's back. Everything above has to overlap, everything below and then water cascades off. So I knew I had failed, but there was something that quiet resolve. Maybe we all have that somewhere in our careers where I. 15:54:39:12 - 15:55:01:21 Unknown I said to myself, I will never miss another leak again. And so when I finally started my own company not long after that, that's I didn't know what marketing was then, you know, I didn't know what marketing was, but my this is what I did. I had like a tagline. It was like, give me the leak that no one else can solve and I'll fix it for free. 15:55:01:22 - 15:55:25:16 Unknown I put that out there. Not any sign of wanting to give away anything free. Honestly, it was kind of swagger. It's like I was desperate to solve your leak. I'll do anything to solve it. Give me the chance. And I think it was that desire, that huge desire in me that allowed us to get just that opportunity. Because sure enough, those jobs that nobody could solve came in. 15:55:25:16 - 15:55:49:04 Unknown And we had some quite interesting stories trying to solve them. But eventually that confidence grew and we became really good at solving leaks, really good at keeping families safe and dry. And by the way, the only thing I ever worked in, as I told you, the first roof I went up on in LA was a condo. I only worked on condos because the man I worked for only sold to condos. 15:55:49:04 - 15:56:02:13 Unknown And so by my definition of condo, I'm talking about everything that antis roofing to this day bids on is a managed property that votes on their roofing as common area as a whole, 15:56:02:13 - 15:56:08:00 Unknown so usually 100 units or more. That's what we're doing today. But that's what it started back then 15:56:08:04 - 15:56:13:08 Unknown to property manager. The 2 or 3 I knew give me the leak that no one can solve, and I'll fix it for free. 15:56:13:08 - 15:56:20:07 Unknown And that is what led us to get those 2 or 3 calls a week, and eventually led us to growing our company. 15:56:20:07 - 15:56:28:17 Unknown So you've been in business. You're going to be coming up on your 40 years, coming in three more years, a whole new branding exercise. 15:56:28:18 - 15:56:36:17 Unknown Yep. Every five years and other new rebrand. Yeah. Well, good for you. So I'm curious, just when you think about 15:56:36:19 - 15:56:40:13 Unknown the nature of the work that you do and what motivates you, and 15:56:40:18 - 15:56:46:00 Unknown I think it's even coming out. And what you're saying there's, there's a really positive. 15:56:46:02 - 15:57:10:11 Unknown Element to your whole approach and thought process and motivation. And it seems to me, and you can tell me if you think that I'm I'm wrong, but it seems that there's even the possibility of a of a little bit of a danger. Maybe I'm overanalyzing, but I'm curious. So what I'm getting at is you are you are excited about wearing the cape. 15:57:10:13 - 15:57:41:08 Unknown You're excited about coming to the rescue and solving the problem that anybody that nobody else can. And and there's something really exciting and motivating about that. And I can I can see that feel that from you. But the nature of running a successful company, which you have done for a very long time, so obviously you've figured this out, is also sometimes just being faithful in the mundane and being consistent in the things that maybe you don't get to wear a cape in such a prominent kind of a way. 15:57:41:08 - 15:58:07:13 Unknown It's just I'm going to do a really good job replacing this roof because it's time to replace this roof. There's no huge emergency or big problem. It's just and I would have to imagine there's a certain amount of the work that you do on that. How do you how do you put that all together in your motivation for what you're excited about doing, that maybe you don't always get to where the cape in that way, but you're just going to do the faithful thing in the mundane. 15:58:07:15 - 15:58:28:15 Unknown Well, there is something specific to the roofing industry that I'm not going to say we're so unique at. By the way, you're I remember last time I saw you, I just remember where it was. We were together in Pasadena. It was a sacred retreat. And you were up in a room kind of like this, but a lot bigger. 15:58:28:15 - 15:58:47:16 Unknown You're sitting on a couch or in a chair, and you were being interviewed about a really tough topic, and I don't remember exactly what it was, but you were putting yourself out there. You were taking risks that most CEOs of management companies wouldn't risk talking about the stuff that's not working, which I've seen you do before, to make the industry as a whole better. 15:58:47:17 - 15:59:14:04 Unknown There's something inherent in the roofing industry that's very much like the way you hold your business, where we hold this special skill, I get emotional, I silly that I do, but there's something almost sacred to the responsibility, once you understand it, of keeping a family safe and dry. It's it's this trade as old as mankind. It's a basic human need. 15:59:14:04 - 15:59:52:07 Unknown And so when you know how to do it, you're stuck with the condition. In the best way I've ever been able to describe it is I can't let a family have a leaky roof just because they don't have the money to pay. And I think that there's something inherent that people that learn this skill that when we start to share it, like every roofer I know that works for me on the weekends has donated his time to go solve a friend of his leak because it's nothing's more uncomfortable to your listeners that live in a condo, that live in a townhome, that live in a home, and suddenly your roof is leaking and you don't 15:59:52:08 - 16:00:10:19 Unknown know why, and you smell mold and you have a baby in the house. There's nothing more intrusive than that. And so there's something that that draws to our greatest core in our industry. And I know a lot of roofing pros that are really, really generous. And I think that generous comes up in two ways in the roofing industry. 16:00:10:20 - 16:00:33:15 Unknown Number one, it mirrors what I see in your company in the way that you train your employees. You just told me you had nine interns in that you were just speaking with right before this conversation. There's something that really shows up in what I would call the mundane. Sometimes, even though it's we love our employees, sometimes just setting up the HR, setting up everything that they need, getting their insurance right. 16:00:33:16 - 16:00:54:15 Unknown I mean, that's not fun for me to do, but we have to get it right or they won't be whole. But there's also in the roofing industry, that part that extends itself out into the community. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's talked about, you know, we donate all of the roofs for habitat for humanity. We have in Orange County for 15 years. 16:00:54:17 - 16:01:15:18 Unknown That's talked about a lot in a lot of ways, and that probably helps our culture. It helps our brand and helps our company. But every roofing pro, like I said, has that quiet give that we do for those in that moment when they need it. And I think that is one of the most beautiful things that builds our culture and builds our brand. 16:01:15:18 - 16:01:38:04 Unknown And maybe not on news stories, but in buzz, you know, like you're looking for a roofing pro you can trust. It's those little stories of how we show up in the community, how we show up, taking care of our employees no matter what. And we have an internal code and answers roofing that I might have heard it, I, I think I've claimed I've made it up, but honestly, I don't know if I did. 16:01:38:05 - 16:01:57:07 Unknown But somewhere along the line we learned this code and it's repeated in our management meetings. It's our job to on the side of generosity with all of our stakeholders. Now, the reason that's hard for me to say is it doesn't seem possible. I can't be generous with my vendors, my community, with my clients, with all my employees. 16:01:57:08 - 16:02:24:21 Unknown I'm going to run out of cash. But there's something magic about that willingness and that desire and that earnestness and never letting anybody get screwed over by you, you know? And I think that that is that is something that when you establish that as the pattern for your company, you attract those leaders. Like I mentioned when it came in my coup was Susan Degrassi, who worked, as most people know, in this industry, to number two and what what used to be the biggest management company. 16:02:24:21 - 16:02:46:20 Unknown And before that she worked for Disneyland. And now she runs my company. But it's her focus, man. It's putting people it's understanding the investment in HR that has to be there for this to grow. I think that is a fundamental part of every business or should be that impact you have with your people and in your community. And like I said, when I started this, that's the same. 16:02:46:20 - 16:03:02:17 Unknown What? That's the same thing I noticed from you, because a property management company has to be very buttoned up and has to be very quiet at times. It's it feels like it's risking at all to go up on the edge and talk about maybe something that other people don't want to talk about parts of the industry that are not working. 16:03:02:17 - 16:03:44:01 Unknown But sometimes that's what we have to do to make it better. And I liken that between our two brands, and I think that that's something that all vendors in our industry that's community focus should aspire to do right by your people and do right by the community. And I think that is a secret to our success. Yeah. It's interesting the the theme that probably connects what we do with what you do is it is, I believe, not possible to deliver the kind of service required for management or what you're explaining for roofing. 16:03:44:01 - 16:03:57:14 Unknown If you don't have a genuine care for other humans. True. And the really what you're getting at is you have to actually 16:03:57:16 - 16:04:17:18 Unknown genuinely care for other people or you're not going to you're not going to have that that motivation that drives you. And it's easy to talk about that at a surface level. But if you actually genuinely care about somebody, it's going to cost you something. 16:04:17:20 - 16:04:47:06 Unknown Otherwise it's sentimentality. That's a hard hurdle. It is, but that's really what you're driving at is that. And whether and when we say cost, it's either going to cost you money or it's going to cost you time or it's going to cost you resources or it's going to cost you emotional investment. But there is not a dynamic within the the human reality where you can genuinely care about another person if there's not a cost associated with it. 16:04:47:08 - 16:05:12:19 Unknown And that's that's what you're talking about, is what we talk about often in our company that that we have to care about the humans. Otherwise you just fall into this mechanical process. And there is I was I was asking you, there is a there is a reality in both of our businesses that we have to be able to do the mundane and do it well. 16:05:12:19 - 16:05:36:07 Unknown And there's a there is a certain amount of mechanical, repetitive types of things that you have to do, but you have to be able to elevate above that at times. And keep in mind why you're doing it and what the aim is. So to that end, I mentioned El Nino and you are compelled to keep family safe and dry. 16:05:36:09 - 16:05:55:10 Unknown Maybe not since the late 90s. Is there as much of a risk that that might not be true as it as it might be for this, this upcoming year? We're recording this in June. The rainy season is maybe six months away, 16:05:55:10 - 16:06:03:22 Unknown maybe a few months. Well, I'll let you address that, but I've seen a lot of things in the news about El Nino. 16:06:03:23 - 16:06:24:13 Unknown I'm sure it's on your radar even more. Talk to us about what El Nino is. Why does anybody care in this world that that we operate in? Set the stage for what that's about. Well, yes. At roofing companies, we talk about Al Nino a lot. First of all, West Coast roofing. You got to know what it's like for a West Coast roofer. 16:06:24:13 - 16:06:47:00 Unknown It's feast or famine. It rains and we get a ton of work, or we're in drought and we get no work. So we have to really be in tune with the weather patterns. Let me go a bit deeper. I listen to the weather reports we have. I have a really good relationship with with TV news stations. We're the KTLA roofing expert. 16:06:47:00 - 16:07:11:17 Unknown If we do get heavy rain, we'll be on there talking about it again this year, though, I'll tell you, I don't trust the Doppler radar. You know I don't. You know that the weather prediction over the last 20 years, six months out, you know, how accurate is I don't it's 50%. It's 50%. It's not 51%. It's 50% accuracy. 16:07:11:19 - 16:07:31:15 Unknown It's literally a coin flip. I mean, so we don't have a lot of confidence in weather reports, especially more than a month or two out. The three groups that this is this is kind of just what it's like to be a roofer. If you're a roofer, you listen to three groups, you listen to other roofers, you listen to farmers, and you listen to fishermen. 16:07:31:15 - 16:07:50:20 Unknown And the reason why there are three trades are so tied to the weather, and it shows up in different ways. And we we go by our hunches. I have a guy that's worked for me for 20 years, Narciso Alarcon. He runs all of the all of the work in my field. And like me, I have a new knee and I have stem cell replacement in this knee. 16:07:50:20 - 16:08:09:08 Unknown And I'm good today. But his knees get sore sometimes from his years in roofing. I asked Narciso how his knees are feeling because his knees start aching before the weather, and that might sound a little bit weird, but you know, you got to know what roofers are like. I'll go. I got to tell you a little something else about roofers. 16:08:09:10 - 16:08:19:21 Unknown We all have a story like this. We all built our companies by solving leaks. If you're just solving them by replacing roofs, you're not going to get a lot of work. You've got to be able to save 16:08:19:21 - 16:08:27:19 Unknown customer money. Nothing's more exciting than going in there. And I don't need a new roof. There's only a $500 and now I'm dry. 16:08:27:21 - 16:08:47:05 Unknown There's something really powerful about solving leaks. And so there's. I got to tell you what I used to do when I started my company, not long after I missed that first leak. The next year, I would say, give me that leak that no one else can solve, and I'll fix it for free. I was so desperate to solve that leak, Matthew. 16:08:47:05 - 16:09:03:00 Unknown I would crawl up on the roof, and I never told anybody this story till four years ago, when I told our marketing director, Cary Burnham, the story because I was embarrassed to tell her. But I crawled up on the roof and I would go to a spot near the leak by the chimney where nobody would see me, and I would. 16:09:03:01 - 16:09:21:11 Unknown I would lie down. I would literally lie down and tell my head, hit the tiles, and then I would, I would imagine. And again, I'm calling myself on this, sounding maybe odd to some people, but I would imagine I was a drop of water and with my eyes closed with my head on the tile, I would see this raindrop like falling. 16:09:21:11 - 16:09:43:11 Unknown And somehow it was me. And I would see it splash into the chimney, pull down pool below the tiles and and somehow in this process, over the next hours, I would start lifting up tiles. And whether it was three feet away or 20 or 30ft away, I would eventually lift up that tile to find that rusty nail where that leak was and be able to solve that leak. 16:09:43:11 - 16:10:05:00 Unknown And there was just something in that big desire. And I find that there's something beautiful in the trade, because when I finally shared that I the other roofers, I in the room, you could have heard a pin drop and there's something that they all do similar to that. And so I listen to roofers. I have friends that are farmers, I have friends that are fishermen and they follow the weather trends they follow. 16:10:05:01 - 16:10:23:12 Unknown We follow the, you know, El Nino. I can't explain what it is. All I know is when the warm water doesn't shoot up to Indonesia and when it gets stuck here because the trade winds slow down, that changes the weather pattern on our whole continent, North and South America. And but we also know that it doesn't always hit. 16:10:23:12 - 16:10:38:19 Unknown Because you remember ten years ago we had a huge prediction. It was the Godzilla. It was called the Godzilla El Nino that was going to hit us. And we put that out. There aren't just roofing. Did we really believed it was going to hit it? I think that year we had nine inches of rain. LA who gets more rain? 16:10:38:20 - 16:11:03:16 Unknown LA gets more rain than Orange County. LA had nine inches of rain so it's not always accurate. However, the last El Nino before that it rained 30in. And so there's there's there's a lot of patterns that are shifting. There's one other pattern I'm going to talk about from a Ripper's perspective again, roofers, farmers and fishermen. When I entered the roofing business 42 years ago, we had June Gloom every day in June. 16:11:03:19 - 16:11:24:00 Unknown June Gloom went away for 20 years. When I entered the roofing business back in 1989, it was raining a lot more. If you look at weather patterns, we had a lot more heavy rain years, 20 plus inches, but then we went through a period for about 20 years where we were mostly in drought, where you might we had one, I think it was 2003. 16:11:24:00 - 16:11:49:08 Unknown I think it rained three inches that year. Maybe it was 2007 somewhere in there, and we had a lot of really low rain years. But right now this is what we've noticed. We've noticed that for that 20 year period, rainstorms were under producing what the Doppler radar was saying they're going to produce over the last three years, rain rains are performing at or above the level that the radar is predicting. 16:11:49:08 - 16:12:14:19 Unknown And so there's something shifting right now in the weather from our experience and our perspective. So when I talk to rivers fishermen and farmers, we're expecting a really wet winter. And how is that going to look? Well, the experts say it's probably not till October, but we also see this June gloom again. Now we also see these no rain predicted, but we're getting drizzle. 16:12:14:21 - 16:12:36:17 Unknown This is this is something I haven't seen for a while. So I my experience is is expecting what we haven't seen before. And or at least we haven't seen in a long time. And the way that pans out is anticipating is predicting that we're going to have a really wet next year. And by the way, this super El Nino is not only supposed to affect this year, it's supposed to affect us into next 16:12:36:18 - 16:13:04:19 Unknown So you say that you listen to other roofers, fishermen and farmers. I would throw onto your lists, maybe to suggest another group to listen to, and that might be the sharks. Just from the standpoint of there's much more shark activity off the coast of California than there has been maybe evidence. And it's indicative of the change in both currents and in water temperature, as I understand it. 16:13:04:19 - 16:13:31:00 Unknown And it's all a function somehow of the El Nino factor. So yeah, there are there are a lot of factors that are pointing. So assuming that this is going to be a wet, rainy season, if you were a board member or a manager of a condo community, or even just a homeowner who has their own roof to worry about, what should somebody be thinking about right now? 16:13:31:05 - 16:13:34:01 Unknown Here we are in June, coming up on July. 16:13:34:04 - 16:13:58:00 Unknown what should you be thinking about heading into that type of a scenario? Great question. And these answers are always true. Way more important with the weight of a potential heavy storm. Number one, this is so clearly accurate. And I got to give you a background because we had we built our company, you know, chasing the leaks that no one can solve. 16:13:58:01 - 16:14:23:14 Unknown We've solved hundreds of thousands of leaks over the last 40 plus years. And so we have certain things that we know we're going to occur. And we and we understand why things fail. The number one reason for the big leaks, the leaks that are painful, like 50 gallons flooding out four stories, clogged drainage. The number one cause of the leak is not that old Warren roof because it's 30 years old. 16:14:23:15 - 16:14:57:05 Unknown You might have only two year old roof, but you just didn't clean it. It's the lack of maintenance. And so we're I'm going to we're going to we have to talk about the importance of maintenance. But it's worth it to pause on the most simple form of maintenance. It's cleaning. I mean, I could go to if we were to go out and look at some window tracks on sliding windows, and I could show you where a spider has built a web into the little window track, that sliding track, which has a water release system in it, that spider web can the drainage. 16:14:57:05 - 16:15:20:21 Unknown And now that window leaks back into the edge. You know, it's the patio decks. I mean, the worst leaks, the most painful leaks, the most expensive leaks I've seen on Ho roofing or Ho exteriors, or what I call deck over dwelling area leaks. If you have a deck, a little deck with your barbecue on it, and below it is your kitchen, or below it is your bedroom. 16:15:21:02 - 16:15:47:08 Unknown Those leaks, when they occur, almost always occur from multiple sources. It's not the deck. Usually it's the threshold transition. It's the metal. It's the hose bib. It's every penetration into that wall. Because stucco, as you know, is not a perfect system. There's so many things that can contribute to it. So the most important thing is cleaning. If you have a deck area, drain those flat drain and you just have one big maple leaf laying on it. 16:15:47:08 - 16:16:08:08 Unknown It could literally work like a piece of paper and stop the drainage and flood that hole three four units out, literally 100 gallons of water. And do you know, 100 plus $1,000 in damages. And so the most basic maintenance thing is clean, and you need to do that every year. And before I get another maintenance, there's one more analogy I got to throw at you. 16:16:08:12 - 16:16:26:01 Unknown It's critically important that homeowners understand that roofs are no different than your car. They need maintenance. If you don't do the maintenance on your car, change the well. If you don't take care, change the brakes. Your car is not going to last half its life. Neither is your roof. 16:16:26:03 - 16:16:30:02 Unknown And maintenance is not expensive. It's not that super big ticket item. 16:16:30:02 - 16:17:07:20 Unknown It might be 50 to a couple hundred dollars per unit in that condo, but what it does is it takes care of these highly, the high fail areas, cleaning. And then I'll tell you three other areas. The roofing. Roofing leaks occur kind of in this 9010 rule, 90% of the leaks come from 10% of the area, and the 10% of the roof area are three things roof penetrations, things going through the roof, chimneys, pipes, roof transitions, two pieces of roof, two sections of roofing coming together, and roof termination points where the roof but ends on the outside wall or into something else. 16:17:07:20 - 16:17:08:03 Unknown And 16:17:08:03 - 16:17:14:00 Unknown So the cleaning as part of the maintenance you're recommending should be done every year. 16:17:14:00 - 16:17:32:02 Unknown Is there a time of the year that that should be done? Well, let's look at. I think there's how often you do it. You have to look at your what's going on in your community, the tree growth. If you have like an old community with massive trees leaning into your roofs, you're going to need them clean four times a year. 16:17:32:03 - 16:17:52:08 Unknown If you don't, every little rain is going to trigger leaks. And by the way, when a drain clogs up and every drain will clog up if if debris is not cleaned, I mean, you have you hear about drains that don't clog up. You see people sell them. But I don't see anything that works other than cleaning. When you have a bunch of debris going into an area. 16:17:52:08 - 16:18:13:20 Unknown And it's not just the drains up on your roof, you have sections where two roofs come together, like say you have a tile roof, which is the most common roof on on condos that we see. Unless we're talking about high rises and always you'll have valleys where two slopes of tile come together. And if you don't clean the debris out of those valleys, these little water dams occur and it starts shooting the water in sideways. 16:18:13:20 - 16:18:22:08 Unknown And what it does is all that dirt that's being pulled in the the airborne pollutants suck all the asphalt out of the all of the underlayment that. 16:18:22:10 - 16:18:42:02 Unknown Keeps it dry, and then it cracks and breaks. And now you have a roof that's supposed to go 30 years. That's failing after 7 or 11 years. So it's dependent on the the external circumstances, how frequently. But if you're if you were only going to have it cleaned once a year, what time of the year would you suggest that that be done? 16:18:42:04 - 16:19:03:01 Unknown The best time to do it is before the rains come. Okay. Because it's, you know, like we don't have a high risk for rain right now, but we will in two months. So right now we're in this season. We're in this season of maintenance. It's basically is beginning right now. June, July, August, September or you're four months to get your car tuned. 16:19:03:01 - 16:19:23:04 Unknown Or in this case, get your roof tuned and they're going to go up on your roof. It's a pretty quick process unless you need a new roof. And in most cases maintenance is those basically those four things cleaning termination points, transitions and penetration. And this is usually what you would have. Most roofing companies would do this type of maintenance. 16:19:23:05 - 16:19:47:22 Unknown Yes. And it would seem to me and you could tell me if I've got this wrong, but it might be appropriate for, let's say, a condo community to do that cleaning, but also to maybe have a roofing inspection completed at the same time to give feedback on any other risks that a particular building might be facing. I think that's absolutely smart. 16:19:47:22 - 16:20:13:01 Unknown If you if you really want your roofs to last their full potential, you need regular maintenance. But you also need to have a seasoned professionals eyes that understands how and why things fail. And there's there's something. And by the way, reroofing is very expensive. I mean, it's expensive relative to what it used to be. I mean, the typical ho single unit replacement cost is probably like 40 grand, you know, and that's a guess. 16:20:13:01 - 16:20:40:07 Unknown But my point is, it's not cheap to replace a roof. And if you have a 100 units, that's $4 million. The repair price is is not very great. So doing everything you can to to do the maintenance and get all of the all of the usable out of your roof is the very most important thing. Because I'll tell you this, roast roofs are sold to last 30 plus years, but most of the roofing that we're turning has been turned after 15 to 20 years. 16:20:40:07 - 16:21:02:07 Unknown And so it's not performing to the length that it should, but it will if you do proper maintenance. There's one item I want to get to in between the super expensive reroofing. Let's say it's $40,000 a unit and say the maintenance is 40 to 200 a unit. There's something in between. And that is, let's suppose that your roofs are performing well again, all the field area. 16:21:02:07 - 16:21:29:19 Unknown But you're leaking at all the chimneys. It's, it's a little bit of a there's a higher risk on the contractor side, but it's what we call special ops at antis. And a lot of companies do something like this where you bring expertise is and you re-engineer the problem that's failing everywhere, because you can get ten more years of life out of the rest, because if you're going to spend $4 million to get 30 years on a roof, what if you could spend $400,000 to get ten years? 16:21:29:19 - 16:21:52:06 Unknown You're getting very good value. So one of my favorite jobs to sell. I love what we call special ops, because what that allows us to do is go in there. We're going to spend only $40 a unit on the field area because it's really great. But you know what? All your leaks are coming from your chimneys. So we're going to replace all of that material and all that flashing around all 100 chimneys. 16:21:52:06 - 16:22:08:14 Unknown And because we do that, we'll be able to give you a ten year warranty. And so there's there but you won't get there if you don't bring in the expert that gives you that opportunity and and that opportunity, you're only going to get by going up on the roofs. Now, you're not going to go up on the roofs. 16:22:08:14 - 16:22:09:16 Unknown If you're in an HOA, 16:22:09:19 - 16:22:20:14 Unknown if you're a roofing company and you're working in the whole industry as we do you we photograph we we memorialize everything we see. We have to. 16:22:20:15 - 16:22:36:19 Unknown It's a highly litigious area, as you know, we but we also do it so we can bring the information to the homeowners association, to the board. We can present it to them and explain to them, look, this is the cost. You can you're going to need a new roof. But if you do this, you can get ten more years. 16:22:36:19 - 16:22:56:13 Unknown If you don't do the maintenance at all, you're going to need a whole new roof in three years. In a week, we can bring them with the pictures and with the evidence and let them make the decision. But again, the main thing I want every ho to understand is you must spend on your roofs every year. You must spend just like you do on your car. 16:22:56:14 - 16:23:26:16 Unknown Otherwise your investment goes south. So for a board of directors or a manager, they're looking at a approaching El Nino season and they want to deal with problems now during the summer, as opposed to when the leaks start showing up. We talked about doing maintenance. We talked about a roof inspection. Is that going to tell them what they need to know? 16:23:26:16 - 16:23:39:11 Unknown Is there is there any other element to the process that they should be actively doing now, during the summer, to try to avoid having a situation where they're being reactive? How how can they be proactive? Being 16:23:39:11 - 16:23:40:15 Unknown Call the roofing professional 16:23:40:15 - 16:23:55:21 Unknown that you know you can trust and ask him to come inspect your roofs and tell you what it needs. Because I'm telling you, you need maintenance. I'm telling you you need cleaning. You're going to need a few pipes sealed. That may be all, but without the physical inspection of your property, you're not going to know. 16:23:55:21 - 16:23:57:10 Unknown And you may not be prepared. 16:23:57:12 - 16:24:10:02 Unknown There's this threat of this Godzilla El Nino coming, but we don't know if it's going to hit or not. But if you don't do your maintenance, you know, it's like you're going to get hit if you're an HOA with a Godzilla lawsuit. 16:24:10:02 - 16:24:22:00 Unknown Because we know how much litigation. There's more litigation on homes today than there was ten years ago than there was 20 years ago. You have an obligation to do everything you can to try to make that roof last. And I'm telling you, 16:24:22:00 - 16:24:30:02 Unknown there are some demands that are impossible. You have to do everything you can to stay ahead of that, and your biggest threat is keeping your all of your people safe and dry. 16:24:30:02 - 16:24:58:23 Unknown Sometimes I see roofing get reprioritize below things like the esthetics of the curb. And I'm thinking unless there's a danger there, you've got to take care of your roofs, because if you don't keep them safe and dry, you're going to get hit and it's going to cost everybody a lot more. Yeah. One other thing I'd probably suggest is that you you call your trusted roofer, and it might be worth also pulling your maintenance records from the past couple of years. 16:24:58:23 - 16:25:23:16 Unknown And if you've had any roof leaks where you've had repairs done over the past few years, providing that to the roofing company, especially if they're not the ones who made those repairs. So you they've got that that history and they know where the problems have been. We need that. We can't grade which roof we're going to recommend you start, which building you start reroofing on, or what repairs you do without that history. 16:25:23:16 - 16:25:45:03 Unknown And by the way, we're not going to know the consistency of failure on chimneys without that history. And so one of the things you need to be expecting your roofing provider to give you is that list. Where is it all leaking? Because they have to be keeping it too. They have to be tracking it. And and by the way, that is a critical not only the management companies do the best job of tracking information. 16:25:45:03 - 16:26:11:07 Unknown Every management company that's sizable has an impressive ERP system. I'm not nearly as impressive as what Brad Perry is built here. I know Brad, he's an incredible builder CIO, but every roofing company should have that same ERP system that keeps tracks of all this information. So we can come provide it to you and show you that you're not getting any leaks on phase two of your complex. 16:26:11:07 - 16:26:38:14 Unknown They're all coming on the first phase that was built by a different contractor. And this is what we've discovered. You have 50 leaks here, only three here. Let's replace these buildings first. So talk to me about the concept of bringing in a third party consultant into a major roofing project. Maybe if it came to were reroofing was needed or the there was a recommendation for reroofing. 16:26:38:16 - 16:27:05:13 Unknown I know that for a couple of reasons. One, potentially writing specifications that might be independent of a roofing contractor to get competitive bids, and number two, to be able to kind of monitor the performance of a roofing contractor, where a manager may not be capable of being able to provide that level of monitoring, both from a safety standpoint and from a expertise standpoint. 16:27:05:15 - 16:27:30:16 Unknown What are your thoughts on bringing in a consultant, and what might that look like in a way that would be most beneficial to an away? There's two schools of thought on that, and I'll start by saying antis roofing. We're sizable roofing company arena and most of our big reroofing jobs. We work with a project manager independent separate than us. 16:27:30:18 - 16:27:51:02 Unknown And we we have ones that we think we think are better than others. And I think that we know we're tied to them somewhat. So we we vet that carefully who we work for. But that's one way. And I think it's a very effective way. But I won't say that all job managers in all systems, they don't compare their different. 16:27:51:02 - 16:27:54:20 Unknown They're all different. So you have to do your due diligence just like you do with your contractor. 16:27:54:22 - 16:28:02:09 Unknown But there's another element that's very positive. And that works very well in our industry. And that is there's a new trend in roofing. 16:28:02:10 - 16:28:19:06 Unknown Honestly, I entered the roofing industry and I was really disappointed because when I started 40 years ago, I'm putting down I'm up on a 25 year roof that it says they says it's a 25 year roof. It only lasted eight years. And I'm thinking, how is this okay? The roofing industry, the manufacturers didn't do a great job with their warranties. 16:28:19:06 - 16:28:50:02 Unknown They didn't do a good job with their performance 30 years ago. But things have changed over the last decade and a half. We've seen what's called a no dollar limit warranty or what's called a total systems warranty in roofing. If you can get yourself a total systems warranty, then you don't necessarily need to hire an independent inspector. And the reason why is the manufacturer of that membrane is going to hold the liability on how that roof performs, not the contractor. 16:28:50:02 - 16:28:56:01 Unknown He's going to hold it with them the first year, but over time, the manufacturer is going to hold it with the contractor. 16:28:56:01 - 16:29:15:09 Unknown And so if you have a great manufacturer with a great total systems warranty that you know is valid, and it's not one of those old school false 30 years, but it doesn't really hold up to mean anything. Then what happens is, is they will act, they will keep that job tight, or they're going to be on the hook for it. 16:29:15:09 - 16:29:18:15 Unknown And I find that that works in lieu of hiring 16:29:18:18 - 16:29:25:12 Unknown project manager, which might cost a few more percentage on the cost of the job. So I would kind of 16:29:25:12 - 16:29:40:19 Unknown underline some of this from the the management perspective. First of all, if you're going to have that type of warranty, I think managers, board members, you want to be sure to have your attorney review the warranty. 16:29:40:20 - 16:30:13:03 Unknown Absolutely. To ensure that you're getting the valid kind that you're describing and that there's not anything that's going to be a surprise later. But also, I do think that there's still a place potentially for that, that third party in making the assessment and for a board member and for a manager's peace of mind, I think, you know, Charles, you and your company, you have a reputation that precedes you. 16:30:13:03 - 16:30:34:21 Unknown And I think that board members and managers can trust what input you might give. But there's still a reality that you're saying, here's what needs to be done. And it's going back to your car analogy. It's a little bit like taking your car to the mechanic who says you need a new this, this and this and the person's like, I don't have the expertise to judge the validity of that. 16:30:34:21 - 16:30:55:18 Unknown And I'm going to spend all this money. And with the roof, it's even more. And so I do think that for a board's peace of mind and for their own sense of fiduciary duty, it's not a bad idea to consider, at least at that stage, having a third party help with the specifications and help with the assessment as to what the best course of action would be. 16:30:55:19 - 16:31:20:06 Unknown Well, we do both. Both most of our jobs. We're selling a total systems warranty and we have outside management. I'm confident when there isn't that project management going on that we're going to perform well. Like you said, we've been around for a while, though I feel best when we have as many eyes on there as possible. Everybody benefits from that, but there is a cost to it, and as long as they know there's there is a cost. 16:31:20:06 - 16:31:48:11 Unknown But it's it is probably the biggest or one of the biggest dollar amounts that an association is going to spend. And speaking from the manager's perspective, if you are dependent on us to be providing some type of safety net on the quality control on a $4 million roofing project, that would be misplaced trust. We don't have that expertise, nor do we have the ability to be on those roofs. 16:31:48:11 - 16:32:10:01 Unknown And I think it's it's it's largely a good investment in most cases to to make sure that a board is is being protected in that regard. So I see a lot of boards that they're hesitant about that I would I would push further and maybe a little bit of a tangent. And again, I'm going to make this from the manager's standpoint. 16:32:10:01 - 16:32:40:17 Unknown But getting your reserve study accurate is really important. And and really we cover this in other episodes. But to get your reserve study right, you need to nail 4 or 5 major components in the association. You might have 100 components, but it's really all comes down to 4 or 5. The rest of them you could miss by 50% or 200%, and it's not going to move the needle on what you're you're funding needs to be. 16:32:40:18 - 16:33:04:11 Unknown As long as you get that 4 or 5, 4 or 5 major components, right. If roofing is is part of your way, you have to get that one right. And so it's usually not it's usually way, way underfunded. Well maybe but no but but but as far as the total dollar amounts that, that an association is going to spend on a reserve component roofing. 16:33:04:12 - 16:33:30:09 Unknown Absolutely. If roofing is part of the equation, it's going to be one of the top ones. True. And so one, I would suggest that it is worth an association's investment to maybe not every year, but pretty regularly have a roofing contractor do a roofing inspection and provide feedback on replacement cost and remaining useful life so that you can incorporate that into your reserve study. 16:33:30:09 - 16:34:02:02 Unknown And and then secondly, you're you're wanting to make sure that that you are prepared then for whatever that funding is and that you're prepared to take the right action at the right time to address that, that component. And if you if you miss on that, if you're off by you have only half the useful life left or double the useful life left and only goes half the time, you're going to be looking at potentially some very serious special assessments. 16:34:02:02 - 16:34:04:22 Unknown So get this one right. I walked inside my office the other day 16:34:04:22 - 16:34:19:09 Unknown and I saw this big vote sign. It was literally like eight feet tall, this rigid plastic. And I realized we bought that sign to get the homeowners in the community to go vote on their roofing because they had to special assess. 16:34:19:14 - 16:34:39:14 Unknown So we're actually campaigning with that board to try to get that, get it funded. And it's painful. No one likes it. I, I talked to Devin, our salesman. Is that what what's going on? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's painful, but they need it. And it's the only one. But they were way behind. They they were underfunded. So be proactive and make sure that you've got the right numbers in your reserve. 16:34:39:14 - 16:35:01:19 Unknown Study and work with, work with a roofer. Work with a consultant beyond your reserve. Study analysts to to make sure that you're getting those numbers right. Because it has such a potential for a big swing. Well, there's there's something else you should know right now too. There's it's worth mentioning that we expect roofing prices to jack up quite a bit over the next year. 16:35:01:21 - 16:35:26:15 Unknown And it's what always happens when there's a press on oil. It never hits it first. It will always show up later, even if the oil pressure correct corrects itself. Because roofing products are so much derived from oil. And so that's something right now. And one of the things I would want listeners to do, if you have a proposal right now, a lot of times even a lot of companies haven't caught up to the lift yet. 16:35:26:16 - 16:35:47:10 Unknown So that means that contractors on existing contracts that are hanging out there, they have a smaller margin. They're going to they're going to have over the next period, and prices are going to go up a lot. So it's very possible that we're going to see roofing prices over the next 18 months go up 30% or more. And that's going to be very painful. 16:35:47:10 - 16:36:08:05 Unknown And I the only reason I say that I can't believe how expensive roofing is today. It's it's gone up so much more than I ever thought it would. And it always presses after we go through these certain types of crises with petroleum. Yeah. Well, I think if we were to just kind of bottom line a few things, there's a window of time right now for the next 3 or 4 months. 16:36:08:05 - 16:36:35:19 Unknown That's probably pretty critical for homes, for condo associations to take some steps and make sure that they're prepared for a potential for a significant rainy season. So get that maintenance done with the cleaning. Get somebody up on your roof to to do some inspections and give some feedback to the board, to the manager as to what what types of proactive measures might be taken right now. 16:36:35:19 - 16:36:56:03 Unknown And the the goal and the expectation is to avoid having to address some really serious roof issues after the rains have come, get them addressed before that happens. And so this is the opportunity. This is the time. And you know, I got to tell you these stories like the time I went out at 2:00 in the morning emergency call. 16:36:56:03 - 16:37:18:16 Unknown And I go on this beautiful condo three storeys high and Newport and I go out on that deck that's leaking. And it literally was just like two leaves the way they were. They were laying over the drain slats, and it literally plugged up that whole patio deck and flooded out the stories below. It happens all the time, and it could have been just cleaned. 16:37:18:17 - 16:37:37:18 Unknown I mean, they had other leaks too, because they didn't clean, but that one in particular just it was so frustrating because everything was intact. Everything was built right. It's just the small lack of cleaning. And by the way, you know, it's not like you have to have a lot of trees. It's not just if you don't have any trees in your property, you still need cleaning. 16:37:37:20 - 16:37:53:17 Unknown You know, there's degradation that occurs that you you need somebody up there to make. It's just a simple maintenance change in the oil on a car is the best way to describe it. You know, if you don't do it, your car won't perform. And up on a roof, there's just no difference because most of the stuff that we do is so simple. 16:37:53:17 - 16:38:11:20 Unknown And when it's not, there'll be that pause. You'll have that opportunity to weigh it if we want to spend that money. But the other thing that you made me think of when you were recommending Roofing Project Manager, is that if you were to have three roofers go out and look at a leak, those three solutions are going to be completely different. 16:38:11:20 - 16:38:33:06 Unknown And that's something you need to know. It's the roofing industry is not all aligned in systems as well as some of the other industry out there. Sure, sure. But the time is now. And so I think we've we think we've we've made that point. And Charles, I really appreciate you being part of the end common area and speaking into this. 16:38:33:06 - 16:38:34:04 Unknown Thank 16:38:34:05 - 16:39:00:09 Unknown Well, Charles Antis is definitely enthusiastic and passionate about what he does, and I'm so thankful that he is. It really impacts the way that he goes about leading his business and ensuring that homeowners have safe and dry places to live. And so I hope that you found this episode to be helpful, and if so, we would really appreciate it. 16:39:00:09 - 16:39:05:23 Unknown If you would like and subscribe to this podcast and tell other people about the Uncommon Area