Quick question everybody.
19 31.
What comes to mind?
Maybe you're thinking about American history,
but 19 31 was the year Jack Raf
was born.
He's a guest on this week's podcast.
He took the process, the when he was
almost 91.
His
wit is sharp
his humor is present,
he references
his
physical ability to navigate so many of the
expressive and cath work.
In the process.
Jack has been involved in
personal growth for years,
Jack c.
Please enjoy this powerful episode with Jack Raf.
Welcome to Loves
everyday radius.
Out casper to you about Hoffman
Institute. My name is Drew Horn.
And on this podcast, we catch up with
graduates of the process
to and have a conversation with them about
how their work in the process
is informing their life outside of the process.
How their spirit and how their love
are living in the world around them, their
everyday radius
Hey, everybody, Jack Raf is here with us.
At the Hoffman podcast.
Jack, how you doing? Fine. Thank you.
Jack, you have been
so much a part of personal growth
throughout the decades.
You've developed multiple techniques that help people
grow and change
your part of the founder of Est,
a early
transformation movement program.
You've been in this field of growth and
change and transformation for a long time having
you. Yes. I have since
19 71. Actually, yeah. I was
involved in doing things. Before that. But with
s back in 19 71.
5 decades in the field.
I guess I would just ask, what's that
like to be
involved in the personal growth field that long?
What have you noticed?
I was always interested in people.
And and
I was in a night nightclub business for
a long time. I worked for
Did you a nightclub business? Yes. I worked
for a gentleman
in San Francisco were starting in 19 53.
And he owned the club and
then eventually moved to 2 bigger locations,
So I was kind of a people watching.
And know, I was interested in people and
watching them, but I was curious about people
and, you know, how how... What I thought...
The term I used was how people were
wired. What it caused people to do things.
I had read a few books early on
psycho cyber and things like that. And and
I was really interested in that, so so
when s came along with something Thought. Okay.
I just dove right in.
And
and I got the opportunity to meet so
many
great people there and along the way And
If you sit down with people that allow
them to just open up, it it's it's
amazing.
How resilient people are... The love that they
have that they don't always express, but that
so was there and
I don't know. That just there just a
lot of things about about people that are
interested and a lot of things are along
the way that you find out about people
that are were inspiring to. And Jack
all along as I've been prepping for this
interview, I thought you did the process back
then
but then you revealed to me, you did
it a few months ago. Yes. I did
it the May
28 to do third,
May 20 eighth to June third, and how
held old were you when you completed it?
I was
90 Hours was 3 months short of my
90 first birthday. 90 years old doing the
hoffman process.
Jack.
What do you eat for breakfast? What is
the... What's your secret there? You know people
ask me that because a lot of people
normally me for years say I looked the
same, and then I looked back, you know,
40 50 years ago I looked the same.
And I I don't think I really do,
but I looked close to what I I
haven't aged that much.
And when they ask me what it what
it is it, my only answer is my
friends.
I have the best friends in the world.
I'm gifted with knowing some wonderful wonderful people
who love me and support me and that
sustain me. It's... And that's the only thing
that I could look and see the reason
for
how I feel at this age of 91
years old, you know, we'll...
Maybe we'll put in tooth the show notes,
some research around how loneliness
really can be deadly.
And you represent the opposite of it, connection
creates longevity. Well for sure. I I really
believe that I mean my...
My friends are but... Right I tell them
on occasion 1 what 1 it arises in
the conversation. Now
how they sustained me whether I'm with them
or not, whether I haven't seen them for
a long time. III
know their connection to be, I know that
they care for me and love me in
that, and that's...
I just live in that. Well, Jack, let's
let's go there for a second because
you know,
we can know friendship is important,
but creating
community
is a lot harder. So
how have you been able to create
sustained lasting
deep friendships that have nurse you so much?
Yeah Like first...
Thought it is I don't know. But certainly
it's certainly important to you isn't it? For
sure it's important to me It's...
Maybe the most important thing to me.
And the relationships I have with with my
friends are very intimate that and that
is, you know, they share themselves.
That's what intimacy is people think Intimacy is
getting to know somebody else, but it intimacy
is really
show yourself, and my friends all show themselves,
and then they're... They're that type of people
who who were
who willing to be vulnerable and show themselves
that express themselves in and are supportive.
It's like a no brainer
that doesn't take anything to be able to
create a community when you have people that
are that willing. Well, maybe part of your
secret?
Is that you choose
wisely you
surround yourself with people who wanna reveal themselves
to you
Yes. I'm sure that's part of it, but
but it's also they choose wisely to. You
know?
I really have only a few friends I
consider that I only have a few friends.
I'm not open with the hair cutting
friendships with people who are
negative or who
waste their time being in the past talking
in the past and when have stories. I'm
just not interested in those kind of people
in that. And and as I say that
I think that that's not a nice thing
to say because, you know, there
good as anybody else. They're doing the same
thing everyone else in the world is doing
they're... We're doing the best they can with
what they have. It's just
I I just don't choose to relate to
those people, but I don't think that there's
anything
wrong with them or there anything less than
than that my friends. It's just
not the way I like to raise that's
all. When you are with people,
and you are with your close friends.
I mean, I didn't expect to go here,
but since you mentioned friendship was so
important to maybe your vitality and your longevity.
It seems worthy of pursuing a little bit.
What does it look like if you're
hanging out with your friends?
It looks like a lot of fun. Well
my friends have a good sense of humor.
They're sharp.
They're
not afraid that you know, dirt my leash
and they they don't mind if I jerk
their leash. My friends have such interesting,
backgrounds also.
The and it's so knowledgeable
knowledgeable in so many different things that and
the stories they tell
or just fascinating to me, you know, you
look at somebody and you and you you
never know what's going on with them. You'd
never know what kind of a background they
have what kind of the life they live
within in friends at all him very
Rich lives.
I love the
the idea that you can tease each other
as a part of a good friendship.
Yeah. And and when I say jerk the
leach, I mean, if you if you say
something and it's really off.
They're gonna, you know, the jerk your leash.
About it. That then you have to look
at see? Oh, okay. You yeah. I missed
I missed on that 1.
So when you say... Jerk Least You mean
a kind of calling out with love, a
kind of accountability?
Yes. Exactly. I like the... I think it's
necessary in a relationship. A lot of people
can't get there because they're
they tick things personally and you gotta get
to a point where you don't think tick
things personally. You just... And you understand that
the people that you're relating to the Always
have, they're always dealing with you with goodwill
so me seem...
A little bit blatant to other people when
you when you know your friends are dealing
with your with you with goodwill, that's not
blatant This.
That makes sense simply what I'm saying.
It does. Lots of
lots of trust.
It sounds like that you've c created with
your friends over the years.
What's what's 1 of your longest
friendships that you've
sustained
with people in your lives?
Well, ras
is
1 of my long as matter of fact.
Res and grass.
I've known ras for 51, 52 years. And
we were roommates on
couple of different
occasions at couple of different houses, and
we're very close, and then
we've moved we've moved the like distance away
from each other. But we've always
maintain that connection.
And
that's 1 of the things that was so
great seeing him,
I spent the 2 days after the process
with Ras and Liza, and liza is another
deer friend Liza,
I've done maybe 45 years,
then I worked for Liza.
Liza is just incredible.
The world seems like it's the way it
should be, you're safe.
Everything is working fine when you're wrong or
that... That's... What she what she brings. Is
that is the feeling I get. When I
see her, I know everything's is okay. If
you've known Ras 50 years.
And liza 45
and you know they have led the Hoffman
process.
What brought you to it now
at 90
rather than so many years earlier. They offered
for the a scholarship, like some time ago.
And I had some very dear friends that
that have taken the the process, and
everyone just rave about, First of all, I
knew if ras elijah were doing this an
had extraordinary. I've just good at extraordinary. Now
I knew going. When my friends,
who have done a lot of work on
themselves,
set out valuable. This was, like, the of
the... That seems got just gonna be incredible.
And I took me a long time to
do it, and I and I don't know
I can't tell you why I procrastinate.
Apartments because it's in my nature, I think,
but it took me a long time to
come out. 1 of the things I really
appreciated the ras and my
did not reach me. Did not push me
did not do anything. They just let me
do this on my own time, and it
so happens. That everything happens and it
exactly the right time. It was so interesting
because I had done
so much work on myself and got myself
and
what I consider really good shape. And not
that, you know, nothing that I'm trying have
arrived any place because you never arrived, but
but I'm
in good shape.
So I thought I was gonna take the
hoffman process and tweak some things
Well, you know, that went out the window
in the first 15 minutes of the oil
process
that did just not be out...
If it just... It was the best thing
I have ever done
it totally changed my life, I was a
different person when I left that rule in
all the personal growth you've done, it was
the best.
Yeah. I saw things to about myself that
I have never seen before. I thought that
I... Know, I've gotten into myself very, very
deeply. But it appears to you it when
you're get yourself. So what's it? Okay. I
guess you kind think that you, you covered
all the ground that they you seed everything,
you've looked at all these parts of yourself,
you're not missing anything. And I guess that's
I've kind of powered it lived with me
that I found so much there through hoffman
process that I wasn't aware of
and not only
Whereas as I am aware of it that
I can give it a name that I
named to myself, given the as ascend as
a name, which gave me more control and
power over them and also the processes that
hoffman been
gives you to work on these thing,
already, I disappeared. I don't know, 3 or
4 things.
And other thing is just keep fading way,
you I I know they'll be gone just
quite amazing.
When you say you've disappeared things, can you
share some examples and what that means? Yeah.
It comes to me it's something that I
became.
Aware of that I was not aware of
was that... I don't know III think it's
trying to be clever
and trying to
look smart it'd be intelligent
that looked like I've got it together. Now,
I knew
fits a little bit of that there, but
it seemed like no problem for you. But
I saw what a big problem for me
it is. And it all
came to me when it was a realization.
That this is what I did with my
brother
because I was a really a good boy.
I just realized that that never went away.
What I do is I'll even lie,
I'll, hedge the truth.
I'll
do anything
to look good
and
to
to look intelligent and to look like I've
got it together.
Now this... Like I said, this is the
right... I do this every day, and I
see, that's part of it right there. See,
just when I started to say,
was part of it.
I I will going to clean that up
by tell you. I don't do that every
day
Matt, and I caught that. I would have
never caught that before. It would've have given
you some
explanation
about... Well, I don't do that every day,
but, you know, to to show you that
up that I've still got together. There's some
awareness there to catch yourself in the moment.
Yeah. To and that's what Hoffman gave the
ability to do that. So Jack, take us
to your your process your week,
What do you remember
now as you look back on that experience?
Well, I remember that that that I had
resistance?
To
some of the processes,
1 particular process. Like, I had resistance to
it because I've never liked
doing any kind of a process like that.
And
then when I did the process, I realized
how valuable was if after getting into it,
brit micro resistance doesn't stop me from doing
it hundred percent. I relay... If I'm there,
I'm gonna do it as good as I
can, whether I like it or not. So
so that was the 1 thing. And many
of the processes that are that are done...
I just love. First of all, the quad
I think is a beautiful way to explain
what a human being is and the teachers,
we have 4 teachers, and you could see
these teachers
speak to you through through their bodies,
to their intellect through through their
spiritual self through their emotional self, you could
see them speaking through all those 4 phase
individually. They're very
individual,
it's not what you see a lot of...
Sometimes you see people that are traders or
or
teachers of and they're all kinda
clones of 1 another. These are really
individuals
who are
they're
totally in support of the people there and
it was so
great to be in their hands and I
could kind of watch
and I'm interested in watching
teachers and these are the best I've said,
they were so easy to listen to or
kind so well in explaining things. I just
loved it. And the people in the room
their comments about things
this... That's another thing I noticed, we started
up a... What's that.
The thing that people share, I'd watched people
share for years and years and years.
Mostly, man. I think more times than not
what they... When they will share something
after having a positive experience and taking a
course,
and then sharing something that that was negative
or something where they had a bad experience
what they did was they followed that up
with some story about it to kind of
mitigate
the experience.
But with the hoffman people, every time people
shared something negative. It was just they shared
area. That was it. They let it go.
And I... And that's a very important thing
for me. I don't know whether I'm making
this clear enough to you. It's the difference
between
just
talking about your experience
and leaving that go
as opposed to talking about the experience and
then
then having a story about what you just
said.
There is something
about, honoring
the reality even if it's painful,
speaking truth to what's hard
and then moving forward
into the light as well, not
rationalizing it or storytelling it?
Correct. And that and that is something that
I've know that they've got through the Laugh
process. They came away with a different kind
of awareness about things that that allowed them
to do that
Yeah. That's profound for me. Jack, what did
you notice as a
a 90 year old in the process? How
was it?
For you, certainly there's a lot of movement,
a lot of walking, a lot of expression
cath work
how did you deal with all that? Well,
it it's it so happens of the
about year and a half or 2 years
ago, I
got a really bad pain in my left
leg going from my hip down, and I
talked to my doctor about it, and he
says he thinks it's from my back because
the bottom part of my back is kinda
scrunch down, and I guess all the
all the nerves maybe your...
Getting jammed up down there or something. So
he's he thought that pain was from down
there.
So
I couldn't do a lot of things, but,
like, sitting on the floor was painful for
me walking was painful for me. This so
so that was that was bothers some other
than that they let me sit down on
a chair and do some of the some
of the other words by sitting on a
chair,
And then that helped a lot. And by
the way, I've I've been going to a
a woman who
does Ac pump, where she was trained over
in China. Does Ac,
but that pain is totally gone now.
But anyway, that was bothers for me. But
other than that, I could do everything,
and it was. It was ar, but it
was all great and and there's such a
big payoff after you do those processes that
However, while them maybe while you're doing that,
the payoff is so big that you forget
about it immediately.
I love your referencing
it as a payoff.
So for the listeners, can you describe a
little bit of
what that payoff is, what what happens?
Yes. And I don't know this how this
came about because I I I've been sharing
the whole process with quite a few people.
As a matter of fact, I had
2 people who who were going to a
role and the that I know so far.
And there's a third person who may. But
any case, I don't know how to explain
this, but I'm
just hyper conscious
fit? Jeez... It's so hard for me to
explain it.
It's not enough to say I'm aware of
things as I wasn't aware before. But what
is that? You don't what this up mean.
And I really don't know how to talk
about it yet, all I could say is,
like, some kind of a hyper awareness. You
that I didn't have before the that I
I can
see
what I call when I'm off. The you,
for me, it's either being
in the posture of love or not. What
I wanna be is the posture of love
all a time. The only reason why I
do anything is to be a more
person. So you have to be present
all the time in order to do this
and you... And what I wanna do is
be present and be present in a posture
of club not be present to, some negative
thoughts or things in gone.
Wanted to do that, you have to be
present and pay attention and I had this
ability to do that better after a off,
but I don't know how to talk about
it. I just... I think you're doing a
great job.
Speaking to it. And I think there's something
really sweet that
it's such an embodied experience
that you're struggling to find words
to represent that feeling. Yes. I share a
whole lot of things with people when I
talked to them about what the value... When
I come to that where I
I'm stuck for words all the time. And
I tried to explain it in some way.
And I I haven't said it
it's a way that I think is really
get got because I don't get it.
Jack, you, you certainly
described it well when you said in the
past
of love
in the posture of love?
Yeah. That's a that's an expression I use
in the courses that I do And I
talked to people about that as a way
of saying what it means to be present
to love. Jack.
You referenced that liza
Nr have known you. You've had friendships
for 50 years and yet they never pushed
you
to take the process. And and I think
that's just something
we should acknowledge that this is not something
where you go out and recruit friends
you go push the process.
If you love your friends, then you'll tell
them about the process. We just don't do
that, people come to it in their own
time.
Yes.
I have
another mutual friend. This the ras.
I have visual friends that we spent thanksgiving
with without a los Angeles
occasion. They ever pushed me either
and I really
appreciate that because
coming from my background
had asked that its things were very different
there. Was there a lot of... Recruiting in
those days at est. I wouldn't call it
recruiting. But they call the sharing. If you're
doing it. Correctly that it is only share.
But people just got carried away, and they
would push people. It just got best the
sharing state for some people that in pushing
people. I see that only as cause its
people's inability to to really share
I feel that if you share anything with
the property you're really willing to open up
about it and be vulnerable.
The people will get it. Then you just
gotta leave them, under of the won't self
terminate.
Wanna ask about scholarships.
You know, we,
at Hoffman.
Provide more than 400000
dollars worth of scholarships
each and every year
and over
22 percent of our students
our scholarship
recipients.
And you mentioned that you were able to
get a scholarship,
what did that mean to you? Was very
important because of Covid and everything,
particularly that my finances weren't what they had
normally been,
and that mental ought me to be able
to do it. Otherwise, they wanna kinda put
it off plus longer,
and then who knows
since Was taking a long enough time in
the first place and then Harry,
the additional problem of having to come up
with the extra money, you know, who knows
what would it happened. So that's
really
appreciate that. You know, obviously, it made such
a big difference in my life, but, I
support that program
a hundred percent. I did As a matter
of fact I did a... I wrote a
little thing for 1 of the,
when they were asking for
for people to bought the program, I wrote
a little thing about my experience.
Every time now that I've get some extra
money. That's where it's going.
Occasionally, I've heard some cars in the background.
Are you in the city? I'm in Sherman
Oaks and I'm right off the big bull
and can we put some links in the
show notes to some of the work you
do? I've been doing, of course, Colby article
lady for 42 years yeah. Now there's a
good friend of mine Maggie. We took the
hoffman process.
I don't know that she took maybe 10:15
years ago old. She knows a woman, who
she told me
couple of months ago, you've... Gotta meet this
woman. I see the 2 of you doing
something together.
So she introduced me to this woman Lia.
And it turns out that
Took the Hoffman process from Bob Hoffman
back in, I think 89.
We hit it off and we're going to
do
the next course
together, and we're calling it born to love,
and it's gonna be in about October fifteenth
and sixteenth.
You're gonna c lead a course. Yes. It's
about
relationships.
It's about love, and it's about being present
and fifteenth no. In the past,
Jack, I'm grateful for this conversation. How you
feeling reflecting...
On your work, your life, your Hoffman experience.
It feels really good.
The... I just rave about ultimate thrust because
it's
every
part of it is put together so
so well to serve the people that that
go there to to change their lives.
It's quite miraculous. It really is that I'm
so impressed that I'm so
indebted to
that process for changing my life for the
better,
and bring you more love in the my
life. Well, I just love it. And I
love the talking about it, and
any cheap chance that I get to talk
about it to people I made. And if
I see at open if I see that
it may be something that they would be
looking for. I, you know, I open up
the conversation about. Think you've done a you've
done a great job, Jack. You
are
truly a
a wonder with so much energy and vitality
and taking the hop process
at nearly 91 years old, fantastic.
I am bet from have some new friends
through the Open process.
Some of them live here in Los Angeles,
some of them live other places, but but
I have
new dear friends.
That's great. And they pair really well with
those
old friends of 50 years, don't they? Yes.
For sure. Jack. Grateful this for this
conversation. Thank you. Drew. Thank you so much.
I appreciate.
Thank you for listening to our podcast. My
name is Liza and Rossi. I'm the Ceo
and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm
Asking Rossi.
Often teacher and founder of the Hop institute
Foundation.
Our mission is to provide people greater access.
To the wisdom and power of love. In
themselves in each other and in the world.
To find out more, please go to Hop
institute. Dot org.