My guest today is Natalie Van Pump.
Towards the end of our podcast,
she shares a tier worthy story
about letters that she found from a 15
year old love interest.
And rather than putting them aside or in
storage or throwing them away,
she went there.
She asked the hard questions.
She looked at the patterns that got in
the way of her receiving love.
And
she closed the loop 45
years later.
Her story is a beautiful example of the
cost of patterns,
but that we can transform them and ultimately
find ourselves living open hearted,
authentic, and spirit led lives.
Enjoy the episode
Welcome to Loves everyday radius. A podcast brought
to you by the Hoffman Institute.
My name is Sharon Moore, and I'm 1
of your hosts. And on this podcast, we
talked to hoffman graduates about how their courageous
journey inward.
Impacted their personal lives, but also
how it impacted their community and the world
at large.
So tune in and listen in and hear
how our graduates authentic selves, how their love,
how their spirits are making a positive impact
on our world today.
In other words, get to know their loves
everyday radius.
Natalie, welcome to the show. Thank you.
Happy to be here. Mh. You know, I
think it's interesting
how many
obstacles
you had to go through just even get
to the process itself. So let's start with
that. What was your experience of even just
getting to the process.
Oh, my goodness.
I signed out for
my process in February
before Covid.
And
then Covid happened, and I was registered from
May,
which was canceled. And so I ended up
doing the first hoffman
essentials, which is online for a weekend, which
is amazing. And then they opened up for
September,
to do the process in live. And so
I went to that. It was the first
1, and then we had the fire.
Then I had to go back home. And
then a month later,
it was moved to Petal where you where
everything is now in California,
and
that's when I had my process. So it
started in February and didn't ended up I
had it in October.
So, yeah It a bit of a journey,
but it was Yeah. I thought about that.
Talk about going through all the all the
hiccups signing up, then Covid happens. Okay.
Postponing, which was a long... There was a
long moment you've between Covid and when we
went back in person. And there was the
fire. So for those who don't know our
home for many years in Saint. Helena, California
did burn down.
And our friend Natalie, who's the guest today
was in that process
when they had to evacuate. And then you
came back and you were the first group
in our new site in Petal. Right? You
were the first in the first group. Yeah.
And all through that, there was a conviction
in you that this is still the right
thing to do.
Can you tell me about what was
guiding you to stay the path?
When you... When I registered for Hoffman, they
sent me this
questionnaire.
It was like 60 pages. I don't know
it was really 60 pages, but it was
60 questions. I can't quite remember.
And I remember
right before Covid, I happened to been in
Hawaii, and I decided to start, you know,
I printed it out because I wanted to
write out my thoughts.
And
it was
a jolt to my being because these questions
I was asked was taking me back sort
of why me through my childhood and who
raised me and all these different things. So
even in doing that,
I was
more inspired to get there. And from the
time that I submitted my questionnaires or even
going through the process of doing the questions,
The time I got to hoffman.
I was seeing a lot of my life.
I had heightened awareness of my life.
Just by completing the questionnaire.
So I was really looking forward to
having the actual experience, not really knowing what
that was going to be like. But I
felt confident that somebody was gonna help me
make sense
of all the stuff that I had been
through.
As a child. So I was, like, when's
the next 1.
I wanna be in that first class. You
know what and I was just, like ready
to go. And when they had half from
an essential I'm, like, find me up because
I'm gonna do something until, I could actually
have a live experience. So I was pretty
focused. And what was happening in your life
that
made you ready to go back to the
core to go back to 1 of these...
Some of these foundational patterns and resolve them.
What was the... What was the catalyst?
So I... When I was 25,
I went to my first counselor
ever when, you know, I went to psychologist
and I said, you know, I'm
I've done everything I was supposed to do
that was supposed to make me happy.
You know, I'm married a house to Car
garage, a husband a kid. I'm educated To
have this great engineering role in a company,
and, like, life is supposed to be good
I'm unhappy. And so I've been on this
journey since 25
for
that place of peace within myself.
And I've... I I've have done like gazillion
things. Right?
Before Hoffman, I felt good, but there was
a different kind of good or peace that
I knew was missing, and I don't know
that I could have articulated that before Hof,
but I just felt like there was this
bigger sense of wholeness that was available to
me, and I hadn't quite gotten there yet.
So
I... That's sort of where I was when
I registered stirred, not knowing where I would
be today, but I knew there was something
else, and I thought well maybe this would
give me it. And I found Hoffman through
a friend who name is also Natalie, and
she had gone in November
the year before Covid and came back, and
she was just bursting with
this lightness and clarity, and I thought, yeah.
That's that thing that I'm looking for. And
so it was
those things that said, okay. I'm gonna go
ahead and register.
And so, you know, I know that when
we're in the process,
even though you know you want to find
that light. You know you wanna find that
wholeness in that piece.
In the process, there are some
tough moments where we go into
some of the wounds from our past.
Were you able to to go there? What
was it like for you to be the
process?
You know, as you ask me that question,
I think about
the deep sense of
that I have.
Or had, rather,
it's kinda interesting answering that question because some
of the patterns
I experienced with people around me who I
didn't even know. You know. So someone may
not have...
Looked at me a certain way or engage
with me, and I would feel un of
them even acknowledging my presence kinda of thing.
So it was really interesting as you're learning
about these patterns to be experiencing in them
at the same way, and then you're learning
like, hey, it's not about that person. It's
you You learn that in childhood.
You develop those patterns as a child
to cope with what was going on around
you. That was the biggest
1 of the biggest a aha for me
is those are my coping mechanisms that I
needed to have in order to survive?
As a child and to
know that I was still carrying those, and
those were still running my life that was
just huge. Just just... And there were so
many ways in the exercises and experiences that
we had that brought that out. That's even
making me emotional talking about it right now.
Because it's just so sad to think like,
at 5 years old, I had to figure
out how to survive.
And no child should ever have to do
that.
And so
in the process you were able to realize,
wow. That was just a coping mechanism.
It's not who I am today.
Was it easy to
separate yourself from the coping mechanism
and your identity? How did you do that?
It was the whole concept of
my true spiritual self. Like, that is the
true essence of who I am. I think
that's where I made the
separation in that
having a heightened awareness of my spiritual self
is my whole self.
And then there are these patterns and it
was, like, closing that gap. Like,
what I love at Hoffman was it gave
me the tools. Like, when these patterns... They're
never gonna go away, but they get quieter
as you get more whole or stronger, whatever
the right language it may be my language
is the more hole I become the more
I'm in my wholeness nest, those patterns get
quieter.
But if they pop up, which they will,
I now have the tools to deal with
it and I'm not that triggered. So
that was my... That's kinda how I crossed...
I began to process it during the process
because in the process tell you a lot
of the work happens after you leave. And
so, you know, it's like, this is kind
of a cool skill, a tool
bunch of tools I can use when I
go back out in life because at the
end of the day, our true self is
within us and it's tapping into that and
removing
the barriers that prevents us from being and
seeing our true self. So I'm really grateful
for having had that awareness and it and
the tools and the experience to carry me
through after I left. What are some of
the tools that you tend to use in
your day to day life? Quad checks.
Just checking in with my
body, my
intellect, which is really on
you know, hyper going a lot of the
time.
My emotional self,
I had this concept in my mind that
all the ages of me exist in me
at the same time, but in Hoffman, what
I learned was
yes, That's true, but the emotions of all
those ages are within me. Right? So when
they when we were... When I did my
first car I was learning about it? It
was like, okay, so how old are you
and like, what are you talking about?
Like, how old is your emotional self today?
And what does she want?
And so to do that, I I can't
say do it every day, but most days,
that's pretty powerful. You know? Because I'm may
5 years old or 15 or 25 or
50, you know, whatever. Right? And it's like,
you know, and checking in with that. And
then my spiritual self, which is my pure
self. So to check in with those 4
aspects myself every day is 1 of the
things that I'll do.
I do an appreciation and gratitude hardest thing
in hoffman for me. 1 of was What
do you appreciate about yourself today? Like, why
am I appreciating myself?
And we need to do more of that
you know? So those are 2 things
that, you know, I try to keep in
my daily and also recycling. Recycling is really
powerful.
Just flipping the pattern, you know? And now
I kinda do it in a little more
automatically. But, yeah, Those are my top 3.
That's awesome.
So before we move away from the process,
I wanna know. I know I know it's
7 days packed.
Packed with with things that are happening unfolding,
insights,
revelations.
Are you able to
pinpoint a a moment, a pivotal moment for
you personally in the process.
The 1 that comes to mind
is
in filling out the questionnaire.
I had to write out or who were
all the people that raised me. So my
mom and my dad were in my life,
on some level, but I had 9 surrogate.
And so when I got my name tag,
it had my mom and my god, and
then it had the names of the 9
story gets that raised me, and I thought
it was overwhelming when I fell class a
lot of people, you know? Even as I'm
seeing it right now, my entire body was
build
like, ting I could feel my body
in a place of
true gratitude
for these people.
Who took me into their home,
and they were friends and family of my
parents
you know, before I went... I went to
live at my dad when I was 13
years old,
and
prior to that, I had been moved 16
times.
To different homes, I in different countries. I
went to different schools.
But what happened because as a little girl,
I always felt like, I was a mistake,
like, I didn't belong anywhere.
That when I went to these different people's
homes, I minimized me. I never
allowed myself to speak up I just wanted
to disappear because I never felt like I
belong the anywhere.
They've all transition and only 1 person, 1
of those 9 is alive right now. But
I felt,
like, oh, my God, you know, they opened
their home to me and their heart
and they took care of me.
But as a little girl, I didn't even
know how to receive that because I never
felt that.
You know? So that was
I was literally I'm shaking. Right now. I
was literally standing there shaking, like, It's like,
I could feel all their energy and love
just run through me in that moment.
And that... I mean, I know we had
a lot of experiences but that 1 really
stayed with me when I left. Was really
powerful.
Yeah. I got... I'm getting goosebumps just just
hearing about it.
When you say,
I I actually felt true gratitude for each
1 of these 9 people
Was that the first time you were able
to feel gratitude for them?
Yes. In that way. Right? Because I've always
said, oh my god, you know, these people
were great. You know, sort of intellectually. There's
a lot of things I've done
intellectually that when I went to Hoffman became
emotionally deepened.
So I've always been grateful. I kept those
people near and dear to me my entire
life,
you know, on some level from a place
of
I don't wanna say intellectual gratitude, but it
feels was more like that, but what I
did at hoffman when that felt like
emotional
connection
deep
gratitude.
And it also made me ask the question
when I left are, like, how many people
in my life are showing me love that
I don't even see
that I'm not even aware of, you know?
Because I'm so in this place of un
unwillingness and I don't matter and I don't
have any value. You know, that that that
pattern that that list that vicious cycle of
patterns, you know?
And so sometimes I stop and need to
pay attention because people
are around
me giving me what I want and need,
but it's going back to feeling like I
deserve that. You know, But to answer your
question, yeah. I
always gratitude for all the women that were
there because that was a really big need
I had. I would and the mother's day
cards, you know, and different things like that.
So just kinda keeping them close in that
level of gratitude, But in that moment, that
was a physical
experience.
Of gratitude.
I so relate this, you know,
concept of, I I did the work. I
felt compassion I felt gratitude
But then when we go through the process
at Hoffman,
it is a process. It's a journey, and
and through that journey,
we get out of the words and only
the words and into this place where like
you said, suddenly,
it's an emotional
spiritual, somatic sense of gratitude
and compassion. And
that's different than all the work we do
all leading us to getting to the process.
So that's beautifully said, And I have to
say I love
that not only did you feel it in
that moment,
but it led you to start to reflect
how many times am I receiving love on
my day to day life
that my patterns are getting in the way
and blocking my own si of the love
that is right in front of me. That's
a huge connection to make right there? And
and is that not the key? I mean,
once you
identify that pattern and recycle it suddenly you
go back into your world and you get
to receive all the love that's right in
front of you. I love that. I love
that connection you made. You also... You said
you had the the C garage and the
job and the engineer, and... But today, you
are an engineer, but you also work with
people
tell me what you do in in the
area of helping others.
I
became a Ka kumar kumar consultant just...
For fun. I love organizing people's homes and
stuff like that, but I was really drawn
to that method
because there was a sp component to it.
And I did this in 20
19,
where there was a a element of mindfulness
in her process
of
decluttering your home. Right? There was this space
of
how do you connect with things emotionally? And
what is your present and what is your
future, which I had never really read force.
I was curious about it and went and
I got trained buy marie condo.
And I really
gravitate towards that and went through my entire
home myself. Right? And so then I started
having clients, and then I would go in
their homes and help them and so forth.
And then when Covid happened, I kinda switched
to doing that online.
And what I find is I've done
I did online classes at first, but I
really love working with people 1 on 1
and getting to know them. I have a
client right now in Vegas
and
he's married has 3 children busy life, and
we meet every Friday morning at 05:00.
My time,
and I'm a morning person, so it's all
good.
I love the mornings. Yeah.
But
and it's just getting to know him over
time and
seeing the transformation and
getting these little text messages from him of
brad dude of just how easily his life
works now that things are in order and
how lighter he feels for having dealt with
things emotionally. And
I also got an additional certification in wellness
coaching,
in coaching, in live coaching, but it was
focus on wellness because I myself have been
pre diabetic.
10 years ago, which was a shock for
me. And so... Because I eat healthy. So
what do you mean? And I went through
a learning process myself,
And then with Covid and so many people
having comorbidities and things like that, I decided
I'm gonna learn more about this. So oftentimes
my
Ka,
decluttering clients will transition into a wellness coaching
because
they're now dealing with how they eat and
how they feel and that kind of thing.
So I've been doing that and it's very
rewarding.
Because as you get to know people and
they get to know you, there's a sense
of trust, and I can share and relearn
learn from each other.
And yeah, that's kind of what I've been
doing with that. So I absolutely enjoy it,
though. I love getting to know people 1
on 1. I feel
I'm an introvert by nature, and so
it's a good way for me to work
in that space.
Just for terminology,
what is a Ka consultant?
So a Ka kumar consultant is
way
a process
for decluttering in your home. So oftentimes people
will go and I'm gonna tidy it my
room, I'm gonna clean up my room or
I'm gonna clean out the basement or I'm
gonna clean out the pantry or whatever.
Well, marie con who created the Ko method
said,
we need to do it by category. Right?
Instead of doing a room, let's start with
all your clothes.
So then you get every item of clothing
from the sock, the shirt,
the scarf, the shoot everything.
And you deal with all of that at
1 time. Right? So for example, when I
went to it in my house,
I have a bed, a second bedroom that
has a closet that had all my dresses
in it because I love dresses. I have
dresses for being in the sun all the
way to black tie. Right?
And then in my regular closet, that's in
my bedroom, I have like everyday things, work,
things workout things, know, whatever. So I pulled
all of that together
into my room on a bed and piled
it high.
And then I had to find an item
that spark joy for me? That's her thing.
Does it spark joy?
And then so I found this 1 thing,
which was this particular orange dress, which is
my favorite color. And I... You hold it
on your heart and you're, like, okay, this
part joy. And then that was gonna be
my barometer
for every single item on that bed
about how it feels inside. And that's what
drew me to her method.
And so you do that for all your
clothes, and essentially, you'll end up with
These are the things that spark joy and
the idea is to only keep yourself surrounded
with things that spark joy. So then you
do that for all your books. And then
all your papers and then all your everything
else, and then your sentimental items. So that's
kind of, in a nutshell what that's about
But then when I got... When I did
my home, I had this
freedom,
you know? And I'm very organized, and be
like, what are you organize? And if you
walk into my house, doesn't look... It looks
the same as before because I'm pretty organized
myself, but it felt lighter because I had
touched
every single thing in my life? I made
a decision as to what sparked joy what
was I keeping?
Why was I keeping it? What's the value
of my life today or tomorrow? And when
I got done amazing and anyone who goes
through their process and does their entire home,
will tell you that it's just this
freeing feeling, not just physically, but emotionally.
So that's why I'm... That's a long answer.
Sorry.
No no. It's beautiful. And and and do
you find that
too many things spark joy? Like, is there
ever
ever a...
Your... Why are you keeping that? Well, because
in eighth grade, I... You know, is it...
Do we end up sometimes assigning joy to
things that we shouldn't.
So I'll answer that 2 ways. 1 is,
I have a lot of cutting boards.
Right? I have sticks who needs 6 cutting
board, but they're different sizes,
and I did a raw food chef's
certification at 1 point. And so my cutting
boards bring me joy, and I have 6,
and that's okay.
And if you have 50 pairs of shoes
and shoes is what brings you joy.
That's okay because it's about you and what
brings you joy.
I'll tell you a quick story. I think
just happened this week so little kind of
nervous about it. But when you go through
your sentimental items, that's a really big thing.
Right? Like you said, like, this is from
eighth grade or whatever. But it's asking those
questions. Right?
And I had a lot of pictures and
a lot of letters from the seventies and
eighties when I
moved to the United States and people didn't
call international.
I'm from Jamaica originally. So you wrote letters.
You didn't make phone calls because that would
have been really funds in the 70. So
I have lots of letters and they were
all organized by people.
And these letters were not 1 pager. They
were like, 2 to 10 pages a letter.
I had a whole box of letters
and pictures and things like that. And when
I went through my Ka process my own
process in 20 18 20 19. I either
return the letters to the sender because there
were, like, diaries of their lives. In the
seventies and eighties.
Or if I couldn't find them, I just
recycled. But there was 1 set of letters
that was from
a boy
that I liked at 15,
and I told myself, well,
I'm not sure this is sparking me joy.
I don't know what has to do with
my present or future, but I'm gonna keep
it. Maybe I'll share it with my granddaughter
and show her pictures and letters from a
boy.
You know, for like 15. Just kinda silly
at the time.
So I go through Hoffman
and
fast forward
literally
2 months ago. Well, sorry. So back then,
you know, I got the letters and I
found a lot of pictures of that time
in my life, and I loaded them up
on Facebook.
And people started connecting with each other from
that time, and he then connected with me.
But it was very sort of
high. How are you, you know, that kind
of thing. Just very generic. Right? Because in
my mind, he never really saw me.
And, you know, all my patterns. Right?
So that was in 20 19. So 2
months ago, I went back and I I
was drawn to pick up those letters because
1 of the things in going through Hoffman
is, like you walk out with a sense
of wow and a sense of
wholeness on some level.
But when you... As life goes on, you...
Things pop up and you are inspired I
was.
Inspired to dig a little deeper, you know?
And then when I went to q2,
which is like,
hoffman on steroids. Weekend can after hoffman.
That kinda got a little deeper for me,
and I started going into things like, looking
at my 5 year old self and how
do I love her and grow her up
and kinda getting through that.
And then a couple months ago, I was
drawn to go back to those letters and
I picked them up, and I read them
as me today. Natalie today. Natalie, who received
those letters at 15 and 16. I didn't
see what was in them. And so when
I read those letters
2 months ago literally,
I started crying
because
he did like me
and it was on the page,
but I had so many patterns that I
couldn't see it, and I
started crying. I'm like, this again is another
story of
someone showing up to love me that I
couldn't see.
And I just, like, started crying. So I
stopped to him. I sent him my notes.
Like, hey. How are you doing? That or
whatever, and I don't want anything from him.
It was just
I'm not quite sure what I wanted more
than closure for myself.
So I just started with a very sort
of generic email. How are you? How are
the kids, the family, you know that kind
of thing and share about my family and
all that.
But at the end of his
note, he said,
when I came back from college in 19
80,
you were just not there, and I never
knew what happened.
And so that was my opening to then
share my story.
With him.
And so I... It took me like, all
of last weekend
to write this. Literally this past weekend. And
on Sunday night, I mailed it. I emailed
it off. But I said, you know, you
never you never knew that when I
met you that I had just come to
live with my father for the first time
that I had been moved around 17 times
before
and, you know, had all this trauma and
sexual abuse and just
any and everything. You just gotta wrap it
into there, You know? I just wrote that
I said, I never shared any of that
because I didn't know how to, and it
was just my life, which was is my
ordinary life.
And I never thought that I saw you
you represented
strength and kindness
and something safe.
And I saw you and your family as
having everything I wanted.
You know, the mom, the dad, the brother
the sister. You sit at the table every
day and you have a meal and there's
connection.
And he has a brother and the brothers
girl friend, I even referenced, you know, she
was beautiful and she fit into that picture,
and I never saw any way that I
could fit into that picture.
No. I didn't use language in my email
to him to say, I didn't feel any
sense of worthiness or whatever because he might
thought I was crazy. But that's what I
was thinking because at 15,
I just didn't feel worthy
to be much as to be in what
looked like what I really wanted and that
I deserved,
you know, to have that.
And so towards I end of the letter
I said, you know, I'm I really struggled
in writing this because I didn't... Because it's
closure for me, and I wanted to share,
but I didn't want to be selfish, and
I don't want... I didn't want to be
disrespectful of your family. So
so I just sent that off Sunday night.
So Monday morning.
At an email from him, and I just
started ba because he was like, oh my
God, I had no idea. You never shared.
You were always happy
you know, and all of this. And he
said, you know, no. I really did like
when he kinda talked about a few things,
and he had these specific memories.
And so it was just
closure
for me, 45 years later.
For both of us because his first paragraph
said, I have I've had this question for
45 years and now I am at peace.
And so I was just...
I, like, cried, like, all day. I'm working,
you know what I'm crying and then that
night, I was just journal in such a
place of gratitude because not gone through Hoffman.
I don't know that I would have had...
I know I would not have had the
guts or the tools to be in the
place I am today to write fat know
with my full
authentic self
to just have the universe
line it all all up. You know?
Yeah. I'm so grateful. That's just been on
my heart all week. And I'm... I'm I
can't tell you how grateful. I am for
that. And so
In my letter, I also said to him,
now I'm gonna keep your letters in your
picture to share with my girlfriend from with
not my girlfriend my granddaughter.
About
a boy who was in my life that
impacted my life all the way through adulthood.
Right? Unknowingly.
And so now I have a reason for
keeping it, that is about joy, which circles
back to Marie condo. Right? Like things you
have should spark joy for you.
There's a lot I hear in that story.
I mean, first of all, I have tears.
That's that's soap... There there's something about
time
that is also just so beautiful that, you,
you know, those 45 years were long, but
also a blink of an eye. But, you
know, a,
you trusted
something
beyond your mind that said, keep these letters.
You don't know why. Keep them. To me
I hear spiritual self, but something happened where
you kept those letters. And because you kept
those letters and because you had the courage
to really
go to deep places and continue to listen
near spiritual self this unravel.
And and you named it too. It's this
embodiment of
Okay. I'm gonna now live with this question
of how are my patterns getting in the
way of me receiving love, and I'm gonna
hold myself accountable to working on those patterns.
And boom this happens.
This is a beautiful
expression of that.
It's such a full circle. It's such a
you showing that little girl that you talked
about, who was you
that you are ready now that you're not
gonna let the patterns do that anymore.
What a beautiful story? Yeah. Wow. You summarize
it. So wow.
I just wanna cry. I might hang up
and do my own cry just such a
beautiful story
of surrender of spirit of,
the cost of patterns, but the beauty of
doing the work. Yeah. And I think for
me,
you know, as we're having this conversation, you
know, and I was telling about my surrogate
and that whole experience. I just
never
felt, like, I belonged. I told myself a
story and I even wrote this in the
email to him
last weekend that
I used to literally say out loud. I
wasn't meant to be born. I am a
mistake. You know, my parents were both married
to their own spouses. So I disrupted 2
families. I was not supposed to be. I
no 1 ever corrected me. Nobody ever said
Nelly. That's not true or, you know, whatever.
So that was literally my core belief. So
if you feel like you don't belong, there
is nothing anyone can do or say that
you're gonna hear or receive
until you either go through a process like
Hoffman or somebody in your life says, hey,
No you do matter, but can you even
hear it? You know?
And so I love that little girl, and
I'm very grateful for where I am today
because I'm truly
authentically
genuinely
feel like I am deserving.
And as I
grow into
a deeper me, and I have boundaries, and
I'm clear on what I want which has
been, like, another amazing. We could talk about
that for another hour. You know, just, like,
how I show up and I don't pressure
myself and expectations and obligations. It's about
who am I
and how do I serve and show up
from a true authentic shop, you know, going
forward?
It's a full circle. It's taken me a
really long time, but I'm really grateful.
Yeah, gratitude
for everything. And this past week has just
been phenomenal and it's amazing that we're I
just got it just happened. You know,
It literally just happened. Yeah. I wanna pause
and maybe even close on this because I
think it's a really power an important point
that
you lived with with I don't belong.
You you lived with that and
some people never
undo that belief and
live with it their whole lives. It's a
big 1. It's a hard 1 to undo
as you know.
And you and you did it and and
no matter how long it took. You have
arrived in a place where you have the
tools
to answer the question what is getting in
the way of me receiving love.
And then not only that you now do
that for others.
Beautiful.
What what an inspiration? Thank you. Hadn't thought
of it that way. Yes. Thank you.
Natalie, thank you so much for sharing your
story. I I can't wait to hang up
and cry a little bit because it was
so moving,
but what a beautiful reminder of the power
we ourselves have
to get those patterns so that we can
receive love and then be able to even
go back 45 years
and speak to somebody who was wanting to
give us love, but our patterns gotten in
the way, But, we're able to close it
now.
Beautiful.
Yes.
Yes. Thank you. Now you're making me cry.
I can't wait to do the cry. I
can't wait to do the cry. Well thank
you, Natalie. I'm I'm sure many will appreciate
hearing such a beautiful story and such inspiration
and will include your website. So, I don't
know if you're taking new clients, but
I know I'm interested in this Ka kumar
consulting. That's for sure. So
we'll include your website as well. Thank you
so much. I appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to our podcast My
name is Liza and Grass. I'm the Ceo
and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm
Ras Grass,
Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman to
foundation.
Our mission is to provide people greater access
to the wisdom and power of love. In
themselves in each other and in the world,
To find out more, please go to hop
institute dot org.