Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought
to you by the Hoffman Institute.
My name is Sharon Moore, and I'm one
of your hosts. And on this podcast, we
talk to Hoffman graduates about how their courageous
journey inward
impacted their personal lives, but also how it
impacted their community and the world at large.
So tune in and listen in and hear
how our graduates authentic selves, how their love,
how their spirits
are making a positive impact on our world
today.
In other words, get to know their love's
everyday radius.
Alright. Welcome back, everybody.
Today, my guest is Hilton Nathanson.
This is a man who's been on quite
an incredible journey, both in his personal and
professional life.
He's the chairman of Marble Bar Asset Management,
the CEO of Firefly Capital,
and the founder of Red Deer, which are
all under the same theme, asset management and
technology.
But here's a fun curveball for you people.
He's also the producer and the inspiration behind
the movie,
Chasing Wonders.
So much to learn. I can't wait to
hear more about this journey, this awakening, the
process of turning an idea into a movie.
Hilton, welcome to the show. Thank you very
much, Sharon. Thank you for having me. It's
lovely to be here. So I wanna dive
right into the movie, but I'm gonna pause
for a minute and at least anchor us
into the reason we're here, which is the
Love's Everyday Radius podcast. So let's start with
your connection to Hoffman.
From my understanding,
you've been surrounded by people who have taken
the process
and have witnessed their change and have been
inspired as, as a result.
Can you tell us more about that?
Yes. Exactly.
It was quite bizarre. There was a, a
number of, people on my wife's side of
the family that started to be, exposed to
Hoffman,
I'd say around 2,000 and
6,
2007, something like that. It it began. And
my wife is just constantly talking to me
about, about this process that,
people on her side of the family seem
to be
going on and,
with with wonderful
results, almost
life changing results for for for different people.
And they started to talk about it amongst
themselves. And before we knew it, you know,
probably
8 to 10 people from from from my
wife's side were were all going on this,
this process called the Hoffman process.
So I started hearing about it secondhand from
from people, and it and it was a
fascinating,
a fascinating
journey to hear, how many people, how many
people's lives it seemed to be affecting. It
had a huge impact on my wife who
began to, I guess, wanted to to sponsor,
for want of a better word, people, you
know, again, on her side and her friends
to go on this program because, she was
so taken with
the reactions and the responses that people were
were getting. So I think she sent,
some of her friends and then some of
her, other family members on this this process.
In fact, I remember getting a couple of
letters from people who are obviously on the
process. At the end of it, they were
sending us letters. So by about the 3rd
or 4th one we got, I was I
was beginning to understand now this is all
part of the,
the journey, and I was I was delighted
to receive our our letters. So it it
really started from from that. What's it like
to receive the letter? What was it like?
Who is this? This is not the person
I sent.
The first one was definitely that. The first
one I remember thinking, wow, they've really changed.
I mean, they they really seem to be
in a great spot. It was like, what
Kool Aid are they having? Can I have
some of that?
The second one was was was similar. And,
again, you you began to get a sense
of the place they're in. And there was
this real transformation that you could just you
could just feel from reading those letters
that, you know, they're in a really reflective
space, quite a beautiful space, which was extremely
powerful.
And when there are people you are very
closely connected with and then you understand that
that they could choose 1 person, I don't
know if it's 1 person
to write to or, you know, how many
people they write to. But to be to
be involved in that and to be personalized
in their process in that way is extremely
beautiful and, quite quite soul enhancing as enriching
as a, you know, as a recipient of
that. So it was very special and I
would say,
most of them of of the 4 that
we received, 3 were were very clearly in
a great place and one was going through
a lot of deep thought, huge reflection on
almost their next stage in life. You could
see that that person was going to emerge
from this process and make some changes whereas
the others were very much appreciating what they
had. But in all cases, you could really
feel what a powerful experience they'd been on.
So this is interesting. So you're you're unique
in that a 100% of the people we
interview thus far have been graduates.
You get to be our insight into
what we say happens. Right? Our podcast is
called Love's Everyday Radius because we believe
that when people do this work on themselves,
they go back out into the world and
become more communal, more conscious of the collective,
more aware of their impact, etcetera, etcetera.
I'm your ring in, Sharon. I slipped through
the net. Exactly. Somehow, I'm just here, and
you're like, what's Hilton doing here? But that's
that's great. I've I'd loved it. I'm delighted
to be your first ever ring in, if
you like, in in this. Brilliant. Well, you
actually get to represent
all the people who get impacted by the
loved ones who take the process. Perfect. Even
better. Right? So I'm curious. So so, you
know, and and our hope is that when
people take the process, there is a positive
impact that ripples out of them, hence, the
word love's everyday radius.
So I'm curious if if did you find
yourself suddenly looking inward? Did you find yourself,
questioning things in your life or being inspired
to be different? Like, what was the actual
impact of you being on the, you know,
recipient of their love's everyday radius? Yeah. It's
it's it was actually quite timely because it
was, it was actually coincidence in a sense
of my own my own journey as my
wife was talking about this this process and
and, you know, her family members' experiences, etcetera.
I was going through my own journey. We're
all going through our own journeys, aren't we?
I suppose, you know, and and that never
stops. The journey I was going on began
to collide with the Hoffman journey to some
extent. I lost so my background is in
asset management and technology is, as you said,
I I'm I'm from Australia originally. I came
to London in 1992. I was 22 years
old and I somehow slipped through the nets
and got a job offer at Goldman Sachs
with a a CV that really didn't really
warrant it. It was a,
you know, a degree in Australia from a
university not many people have heard of. It's
okay. Great. It's nothing marvelous. Somehow it's in
the right time, right place, and I really
wanted
to get into finance and I really wanted
to get into Goldman Sachs. And somehow after
65 interviews, I
managed to to to get to to get
in. And I I remember walking on to
sort
of, you know, the top of sort of
the Ewan Plaza sort of hotel. We were
sent off to Wall Street for our training
program and just thinking I cannot believe that
I'm actually at Goldman's and and here at
this this amazing bank that I never thought
in a in a 1000000 years I'd be
able to get into, but I always knew
I wanted.
And that started my career in finance and,
you know, I worked in asset management and
and technology and, you know, things were going
going pretty well. And then unfortunately in in
2,003
my mother passed away quite suddenly. She had
an accident and and and she she she
died quite quite young. She was 61
and I wanted to set up a,
a charity in her name and to give
back in in whatever way I could, whatever
way I knew best. And that time I
was, you know, 30
33 years old and lost my mother and
and I knew markets. So I began to
to set up a charity and give talks
and lectures
to university students and others on financial markets,
what drove markets,
etcetera.
And this became quite a regular occurrence for
for a few, you know, for a few
years after 2,003,
4 to have a number of these talks
to different students about I'd give a 5
minute background on my own journey coming from
from Australia, getting into Goldwyn's, and then getting
to finance,
and then talk about the markets. And I
was pretty sure at the end of these,
talks that most people will be quite interested
in the markets. And, sure enough, when I
started doing the talks, I'd have a number
of people queuing up to ask me questions,
And I thought, great. They're gonna talk about
finance. They're gonna talk about the markets, and,
they wanna understand what drives,
human nature, psychology.
And the first two questions were were on
were on myself and my career and how
I managed to follow my path and know
what I wanted to do, and the next
one was the same. And and sure enough,
there were 12 questions that were actually from
the 12 people, and not one of them
was about markets.
So, it became
quite clear to me
that the interest actually was was much more
initially around
Hilton. How did you leave Australia
with a fairly ordinary degree and get into
the number one investment bank in the world,
follow your path, end up on Wall Street,
set up your
own business, like, how did you know that
was your path and how do you do
that? And what advice could you have for
me
to to to try and do that? And
so
that was the, I guess, the starting point
of of my journey in in, you know,
I guess, helping people's careers and development. And
the more I began to talk to people
about this, it became apparent there were a
lot of limiting beliefs.
And, unfortunately,
a lot of those limiting beliefs just seemed
to come back to their parents all the
time. When I'd start talking about, well, what
do you wanna do? What's your journey going
to be, what's your passion, what really drives
you, where are you going in life, and,
you know, could you do this? And and
when I'd start talking, they said, well, I
don't think I can do that because,
you know, my parents want me to do
this or I'd be letting them down if
I did that or I don't think they'd
want me to do that or
and it was so
prevalent in the conversations. It's like, woah. What
hold do our parents have over us? And
and why do they stop us inadvertently doing
things or even subconsciously or sometimes consciously?
What is the hold that they have over
us that somehow
stops us being who we should be and
who we can be and who we are
meant to be?
Why is that? And that started this interest
that I began in sort of, I guess,
psychology and and and understanding
these drivers and and and what have you.
And at the same time as I'm doing
my lectures and talks,
my wife, Louise, is is beginning to talk
to me about all of these Hoffman
themes and ideas and and thoughts that are
coming from, again, her side of the family
and and what people are going through. And
it really felt like there was this connection
of the limiting beliefs that we have
and,
the impact that our our parents have
over us. And that was really how my
journey collided with Hoffman at that time,
and I've become I've just been fascinated with
it ever since.
Yeah. And, woo, lot of overlap there. I
can see why you're probably just amazed by,
woah, here's my unique
journey and then here's my wife reflecting back
to me this experience that speaks to exactly
where I've landed. Now, I want to actually
go back. There's so many things here, but
I want to go back real quick. You
know, you said and that's where I started
wanting to help people
was noticing that they have
these limiting beliefs after they're revealing that to
you after your lectures. But I want to
take it a step back. And and I
noticed that
your mom passed away. That's not easy. It
was you were young and and it was
sudden. And you know what you did? You
started a charity in her name.
That, to me, tells me that
it was long before this that you were
already wanting to be a force of goodness
and change and generosity.
And so it only makes sense that through
this, it's, it's almost like it lended it,
it was a setup based on your inclination
to do good in the world.
Yeah. I mean, that's very kind. And, and
I, I, maybe part of that is, is,
is true. It is true.
It comes from my mother itself because, my
mother was actually quite
unwell for for many years. She was quite
frail at the end and she had, you
know, actually, she had a,
yeah, a number of issues after childbirth and
and it was just a difficult life. My
mother had a had a difficult life. And
as a child sometimes you're always very conscious
of your parents. I remember dropping my child
off at a at school when he was
about 10 and at that age he's like
okay dad you can go now I don't
need you to walk to the bus stop
and it was the first sign of he's
old enough now that I'm kind of could
be a potential
embarrassment. So when I grew up, you know,
your parents, your mother, and if they have
any sort of issues, you're like, woah, this
is kind of like, you know, it may
not be too cool and and what have
you. And so so I always wondered, I
guess, you know, sometimes what people thought of
my mother or what what, you know, what
they thought. And after she passed away,
I remember there was just like an outpouring
of of of grief from people who she'd
come across. Some of the bank manager in
Sydney sort of phoning up almost in tears
saying your mother always came every Christmas with
a present for me and the staff. And
she'd always she'd always remember people.
And it was a real lesson to me
that actually, you know, people just they really
see reality. They really it doesn't matter
what's on the outside or how it's just
they know. You know, you can't fool people.
People just know goodness when they see it,
And my mother was goodness and and no
one had a bad word to say about
her. And so I suppose whatever I was
trying to do was to keep her
memory going and alive and actually that that
whatever trouble someone has, whatever you go through,
if you're fundamentally a good person, and my
mother was an amazing person,
people see that and they recognize that. And
therefore, the first thing was put mom's name
front and center of the charity and be
all out there because she was an amazing
person, and she only did good. And and
more than that,
people were able to see the goodness in
her and that taught me
people
just know. You know, it's like you're a
child at school, you remember when you're at
school, who were the amazing teachers and who
weren't? That's in you when you're even 4
or 5 years old. You just kind of
know who are these amazing teachers and and
they stay with you. And that element of
this humanity being able to sort of pick
on
who do you really
like and who is really an amazing person,
it's instilled in us. And but it taught
me at that stage from my mother that
actually,
you know, people see goodness. Doesn't matter how
they just see it and they recognize it.
And that's important.
So this was a way of keeping her
spirit, her goodness
kind of continuing to be present in our
physical world. Exactly.
Exactly.
So I have a I have a question
for you, a little bit of a switching
gears. But,
you know, this you paint this picture of
you know, I just went to this college.
It wasn't the greatest college and and but
I always knew I wanted to do this.
And next thing I know, I land this
job.
Was there was there any sort of moment
in your career? I and I imagine that
it just kind of the trajectory just kept
going upward and upward, and you continued to
experience success in your career around asset management
and technology.
Was there ever a point where
was there a turning point? Was there, you
know, you kept kind of achieving, okay, now
I wanna achieve this. Oh, I achieved it.
Now I wanna do this. I achieved it.
What would happen every time you achieve these
things?
That's a really good question. That's a hard
question to to answer. I mean, there's probably
2
two two sort of answer to that. I
didn't come from London. I didn't come from
Australia and land magically at Goldman's day 1.
I I I've spent probably
14 months, first of all, in London trying
to get initially a job then working my
way from
one firm to the next. I couldn't get
a job in London when I first arrived.
I went to a town called Birmingham and
worked at a firm for a few months
and I remember in the middle of winter,
you know, it was so cold and growing
up in Australia I'd never seen that, I'd
never experienced that cold in my life and
here I am walking toward work in a
bus stop at some firm in the middle
of a city I'd never heard of before.
And
I'm thinking, what am I what am I
doing? Like, actually,
what am I doing? And there was this
constant thing. I've come to London to get
experience. I've come to get into finance. This
is the journey. And you just know, okay,
this is what I'm doing. So
it's okay. So there was this, I guess,
this
this belief that actually you have a plan.
I'm coming to get experience in London. I
wanna get that experience, and it drives you,
and it just keeps you it keeps you
going.
To answer the question about
what's the change and what keeps happening, I
think there's a there's
a, your heart speaks to you and I
would say this to my children. You you
just know when something needs to change or
when something's not right. Your heart's telling you
something. It started for me look, First of
all, getting into Goldman's was was for me,
you know, an amazing amazing break. That was
really my
my my break. I only stayed there several
years and then left to set up on
my own.
And I remember at the end of my
time at Goldman's,
the sort of end of year 1,
watching people as they were paid bonuses at
the end of year 1. Now I love
my time at Goldman's. I could not speak
more highly about the people and the culture
and everything.
There was a but, and the but was
you'd see people end of the year get
paid, and they'd walk out of the office
from having a 2 minute conversation on salary
and they look really miserable.
And I was like, that's really like, hang
on a sec. You wait all year to
do that. Like, it it can't just be
this pay at the end of the year
to be told what you've made and what
you've not made and you're not in charge
of your own destiny. And there was this
huge driver that I had, which was I
wanna be in charge of my destiny. I
really wanna do that, and I don't wanna
wait. And so I just kept listening to
my heart.
So there's not a magic formula for
getting it right or wrong other than just
listen to your heart because it will tell
you if you feel right and if it
feels in the right place. And if something's
not right,
you need to change that. So I've always
just constantly listened to that. So for me,
there's not a formula in
move to the next. It it's just when
does something feel
right or wrong and listen to that and
constantly listen to the heart. And if you
don't listen to it, you really can be
in danger because it will stop giving you
the signals,
and it will it will just slowly fade
away. So you must listen to that when
it tells you the time's to change or
something's not quite right.
Change it. I always say to my to
my children or people, you know, there's no
point complaining about something. It's what are you
gonna do about it? You know, you're gonna
do what are you gonna do about it?
You either gotta speak to someone about it
or get out of that situation yourself. The
worst you can do is sit in that
situation and carry on doing it. So, Sharon,
I suppose for me, it's always been just
listen to that heart and the signals when
you feel you need to change or another
journey or you feel a bit flat at
the heart saying you need another challenge or
something else.
Listen to it and never ever ignore it.
And so has your heart ever given you
a message that you were questioning? Like, what?
Really? Leave Goldman Sachs? Are you kidding me?
I just bit got here. It's been only
a year.
Yeah. The the the heart doesn't
the the head questions it. So the heart
tells you this is not for me. The
heart tells you I wanna set up on
my own. I've got an Australian passport. If
this doesn't work out in London, do you
know what? I've got amazing experience. Go back
to go back to Australia. You have to
be able to take that risk and just
throw caution to the to the wind. You
know, I think Napoleon Hill writes sometimes you
have to be prepared to burn bridges. It
doesn't mean you do want to you want
to connect,
you want to disconnect from people, but you've
got to get in that situation of, well,
okay. If that doesn't work, I can do
I can I can do this? And so
for my my mind was, if it doesn't
work, I will go to, Australia. So I'm
gonna take that risk. I'm gonna take the
risk to move on and set up on
my on my own.
So bring us into your life. When was
I used Goldman as an example. But
when was there a moment where you know,
because I find this to be very relatable.
Right? I would guess that a huge percentage
of listeners, if not all of them, are
familiar with the struggle of the heart says
one thing, the mind says the other.
Suddenly, we're in a mess.
So
give us an example.
When your heart spoke to you, your mind
was questioning and doing what the mind does,
and you knew and and let us into
questioning and doing what the mind does, and
you knew and and let us into that
journey of how you stayed true to that
message from your heart. So it it it's
really quite amazing because it's it's actually gonna
bring my wife into this because I have
to give her
so much credit for so much of my
of of my life but also I think
this is important for for many people.
There's there's a kind of process that one
seems to go through which is for me
okay let me give Goldwyn's as an example
I'd been at Goldwyn's for 2 years I
loved it, I was saying to Louise, my
wife,
you know, I want to set up on
my own, I don't want to be told
at the end of the year what I
am earning, what I am not earning, I
want to be in charge of my destiny.
I am 25, I could start Goldwyn another
10 years and do it but actually I
feel
now I want to do it. My heart
is telling me I want to do it
now.
Again, my father
was saying, Hilton, you might be taking leave
of your senses, you know, you've got into
Goldmans, you're lucky to get to get in
there. I did it. I remember having this
conversation with my dad. We still talk about
it. He's like, what are you even doing
thinking about it? I said, dad, I I
just kind of, you know, I'm gonna back
myself. I've gotta do it.
So that was my sort of my my
heart was telling me one thing. My head
is telling me
my father's saying this. My dad's
my dad's saying this. And then I had
my wife. And Louise was saying, Hilton, I
absolutely believe in you. This is what you
got to do. Just do it.
And and so she helped push me. The
reason I say that is it's so important
for people to surround themselves with believers in
what they're going to do and to give
them the confidence and the courage to take
those risks. You know, taking risk is a
very hard thing and I don't underestimate the
challenges that has for people.
My advice, again, I always said to my,
what would I tell my kids, is to
make sure you're surrounding yourself with someone who
who really believes in you. And I had
that with, with my wife. But I've seen
people before who want to take a risk
and they know it's right for them. But
sometimes their partner is saying, yeah, you're being
irresponsible. You know, we've got 2 children. We've
got a mortgage. You know, what are you
thinking? What are you doing?
And they just they get into their subconscious
mind. They talk at them. They talk and
they don't really
back them or listen to them or maybe
they do, but they're just too scared.
That can be catastrophic.
That can really affect the chances that you
have. It's a little bit like I was
saying before about the parent influence over you.
I was able to sort of bat my
you know, bat away my dad's my dad's
comments in a way maybe I was 10,000
miles away from him and and,
you know, it's it's it's easy on the
other side of the world, but even then
it was, you know, that difficult thing to
do. But I have seen and I would
say we've all seen
the challenges of the partnerships
of of people around you, parents being a
number one and your your spouse or partner
being just as influential.
And, that's really difficult. That's really, really difficult.
And again, my my thoughts, if my children
marry a partner and I'd say to them,
listen, you've got to sit down. You need
to really explain why this is so important
to you, why this is your journey and
your calling, and how you have to do
that. And you'll make it work. And if
you know what, somehow you'll make ends meet.
And if you have to work evenings to
pay for something, you'll do it. You'll survive.
You'll get by. You won't you won't starve,
but you have to do this and back
me on this. And if once you say
yes,
don't pull back. Don't say, oh, it's not
working. It's not working. You cannot be around
negativity when you're taking risks. It it doesn't
work. So you've got to make sure that
your your your orbit and your the sphere
around you
is radiating positivity and belief and energy that
allows you to be the best you can
be. And for that, I am forever grateful
to my wife.
Yeah. I mean, in the Hoffman, in the
Hoffman world, there's a bunch of, concepts that,
you know, in in the process, you
that internalized parent, you talked about the voice
of your dad, even though thousands of miles
away,
thousands of years away, these these voices still
live in us and we call that the
negative internalized parent in Hoffman.
And we have all kinds of practices that
that we do, you know, for the rest
of our lives because these voices still still
live in us. So I think I think
the partners
play a role and, oh my god, is
it nice to have a partner who really
believes in you? And I still think, even
with that, it was still something in you.
Maybe you're you know, also in Hoffman, we
have the quadrinity. You and I just did
a quadrinity check. That spirit of yours
had the microphone,
and you listened to it,
and it guided you. And it's guided you,
it sounds like, several several moments throughout your
journey. In fact, let's talk about how you
went from asset management and technology
to this movie. That must have been a
whisper that came into your ear from your
from your heart.
Yeah. That was that was that really was.
I was involved in a film festival for
a number of years. I was actually president
of the film festival in in in London
for for several years. I was exposed to
film, and I loved it. I loved this
sort of creative medium film, and, I'm a
huge,
film goer, and it's just a beautiful way
of of having stories being told. So I
had a a little bit of exposure to
to to that for a while. And I
suppose
there wasn't suddenly this thing I I want
to make a film. It didn't it didn't
enter my head in that way. I was
on holiday with my with my wife. I'd
I'd sold the I'd sold the business in
2008, and I'd I'd I'd reacquired it in
in 2013.
And my wife said to me, she's you
look really terrible. You look really exhausted. You
know, get go and have a break. And
and so we went off on holiday together
and we were in Spain.
And,
I had this
bizarre kind of epiphany as I'm lying down
looking over some Spanish mountains in a on
a hotel retreat. And I just had this
idea of a film and it just entered
my head
as it as it does
of, a little boy growing up in sort
of vineyards and, you know, having a Spanish
influence and and and growing up and and
all of these sort of thoughts around,
you know, my own experiences
and, my own journey and career advice and
development of what Louise had
been talking to people
on her side with Hoffman. I had this
idea for film and it was there and
I turned around and I said to Louise,
I just got this idea for film and
I started talking about it and I said
this is the story, this is it, and
I I want to do it. So what
are you talking about? I said no. I
really I really really want to do it
and so I wrote it down. I said
I'm going to do it. I'm a huge
believer when you want to do something,
put pen to paper, sign your name to
it, and I'm going to do it. So
I wrote then and there. I am physically
going to do this film. I don't know
how I'm gonna go about it, but I'm
going to I'm going to do it, and
I had this this vision. So that was
the heart saying, I wanna do a film.
Here's the idea for it. Now you,
now you make it happen.
And I suppose, Shout, to make anything happen,
you know, I always think there's 3 things.
There's 3 really key ingredients that have to
come to make anything
happen.
First of all, you have to have just
absolutely,
like, undying passion like it just has got
to get into your soul which is I'm
gonna do this not just a whim and
for me
that was wow I really really want to
do this film and I'm gonna do it
so the passion was a 100% there
the second thing is then you've got to
find the people. You've got to surround yourself
with the best people you can, and that
is, you know, calls and networks and who
do I speak to and who's made a
film and how do I speak to this
one and what I don't know how you
even have the faintest idea about how to
go about making a film. There's a a
treatment and then you get a screenplay writer
then you get the other producers then you
find the the cast, the director, all of
this just takes, you know, a huge amount
of time. So the people and making sure
that you're connected to the people that can
make that happen
is is key. And the third point, which
is, you know, it's it's sort of 1
and 2, the output of 1 and 2
is, you know, anyone can have a great
idea. Anyone can talk to lots of good
people about the idea.
But that third point is you've got to
take action. You have to start that step
of okay this is what we're actually going
to do it and so I've been having
meetings in my house
with co producers and then saying what are
we going to do and then they said
it's going to take a few years and
and and the action we just started and
so never in my wildest dreams did I
think it would be a 7 and a
half year process which I'm happy to talk
about but that was the journey and,
it has been an absolutely
amazing
journey that has, you know, semi life changing.
It's it's incredible.
And so the the passion,
what was your, you know, I love you,
undying or unwavering passion. Like that's something that
keeps your soul just enlivened.
What is the why behind this? Because you
it's not like you said, I want to
make a film. It was the story that
happened in you that you wanted to reveal.
So
what why? Why does the story feel important
to be out in the world?
2 things. I mean, in terms of the
passion, why is passion so important in the
first place? It's a really you know, it's
a keyword and it's so key. I think
life is so hard and you get so
many obstacles thrown at you that unless you've
got enough passion to overcome whatever comes your
way,
chances are you're just gonna roll over and
say, oh, it's just too hard.
So you have to really really
want something so badly and so much that
whatever someone throws at you, whatever life throws
at you, whatever circumstances are thrown at you,
you,
you know, you you've got to be able
to to,
to have a shield around you and that
comes from passion.
So it was this,
this, I guess, journey that I've been on
and again from from Louise and and the
experiences of of of the Hoffman process and
my own thoughts around
parents and this own journey of life. Look,
I'm sure you have, I'm sure we all
have, I know people on
my own side of the family, close relatives,
people that you know, no family is going
to be away from this,
that you just see
such tragic waste of time, a waste of
life. We've all seen it, and there's nothing
that I find
more soul destroying
than than just witnessing wasted relationships with people
that you love together. And we've all seen
them. I've seen them. You know, it it
it is just something that if you can
you can somehow,
help in whatever way to make people aware
of that and almost just short circuit those
wasted years that you never ever get back.
If there's some way of trying to show
that via film and trying to show that
message which is,
you know, if you're not careful, you're gonna
have toxicity in your life for a number
of years, you're never gonna get those years
back. How can we try and short circuit
that? You know, you can read all the
books you like, you can you can
go and look at it, but somehow there's
something in a film that can really touch
people in certain ways that maybe books can't
or courses can't or experiences can't and I
thought,
you know, I really want to make this
film because
I I want to try to help people
who maybe are slightly lost. And some of
that could be my own
friends, my own family, someone who just is
I get that. You know, I get that.
I get that relationship that I've got with
my child or my father, and and I
understand a bit more from this film that
actually
that I wouldn't have learned otherwise. And so
that really kept
me
going to just want to tell this story
as truthfully as we could about the power
of,
you know, father son parent relationships
and, you know, the damage that can be
done, but also the beauty and the power
that you have to heal.
And, you know, you've got that power.
What a waste not to use it or
not even to be aware of it. And
sometimes it's just our own awareness.
So it was it that kept me going
for most of that time and there were
times Sharon where this was well this is
a really difficult journey it's like what am
I doing? Jesus, what do I know about
film and who am I to make a
film and how do I even you know,
last this seven and a half years? And
why is it taking
so long? But we just kept on and
on and on. And, you know, Louise was
involved with me, you know, pretty much through
every step. And, you know, we went to
the editing suite and spent a year
editing the film and waiting for the boy
to grow up. And and it was a
beautiful experience for me to work with her
on that as well. And, you know, she
kept
putting in a lot of, you know, her
journey into it and my journey and what
we've been witnessing. So it's actually a really
beautiful process. So the why was a story
was we're passionate about. And I say without
something you really believe in and that passion,
a, it doesn't it's not real. And b,
chances are it it's so hard to see
through because
you just it's too easy for it to
fall over because you don't believe it enough.
I mean, the main toxicity I saw that
was kind of right in your face, like,
you you couldn't help but see it was
from the dad. From the dad to the
son and from the dad to the in
to the father and to the grand well,
yeah, to the grandpa
through the wife's family. Right?
And so
that was beautifully encompassed. It's like, who do
you not wanna be in that picture?
The dad who's who's pushing away all closeness,
thinking he's doing right by his child, but
only pushing him farther and farther away. Were
there other, kind of like, what's the word
I'm looking for, like, subparts
of the message? Because that message,
you know, I take my hat off. That
message came in loud and clear,
the toxicity and you and you saw he
was in your own in his own
prison. You saw that it's not what he
wanted, but he just didn't know any better,
which is literally to a tee what we
teach in in Hoffman. Right? That we We
try. We all try our best. Don't we?
We we try. I mean, some sometimes we
try. Some maybe we try harder, but we
we try. I think as parents, we we
we do try. There's a lot that's there.
I I think it's it's if I was
distilling it down into sort of simple bite
size
messages from the film and from our experiences
is
look, I think a child really needs to
know as soon as they can, as as
young as they can,
what a parent has been through in their
lives. A parent has had a life before
us. You know, a person is a parent.
Parent is what we see, but they were
a person before they were a parent.
And so the quicker we can understand that
as a child and understand the lives that
they led,
clearly, we might see them through a different
lens. Otherwise, we are just hardwired to think
that it is all because of us. Whatever
the parents are doing is because of me
or because of us, and so we personalize
everything and we blame ourselves for that or
we think it is us and that we
are not good enough.
I don't think there's a line in the
in the film where where, the boy Michael
says, you know, I don't know what he
wants, but I'm not the child he ever
wanted. He's talking to a friend. I think
we all go through some point our thinking,
are we really the child that our our
parents want and and what do they want?
And it's not really us. And and that's
loud and clear in the film. But I
think the second thing,
Sharon, is that, you know, the the parent
really has to take the plunge and confide
in their children.
And that goes back to risk just generally.
And so often we don't. So often we
think our children won't understand us or we
we want to try to protect them, we
want to hold them high above our our
problems and so we don't really talk to
them and it's amazing when you do talk
to a child and confide in them
how much a child, you know, will take
in and how much they'll teach you back
and we just don't do that enough and
so in the film it was very much
around
at what point can you take that mess?
Can can you really confide in your child
and then just stop that disconnect? And there
were so many times
you just wish you could grab 2 parents
2 people a parent and a child and
say right. You talk to him now about
your life
beforehand
and really open up and and let the
child understand what you've been through. You know,
it's such a it's such a shame because
those two things, you know, the parent doesn't
take the doesn't really confide in their child
enough
and the child doesn't know what the parent
lived through and so you have this disconnect
this this miscommunication
that carries on and wastes
so many so many years and so the
film is can we short circuit that? Can
we teach our children and be taught by
them? You know, our children are not us.
They are themselves completely. I think we said
this at the end of the film and
that's,
you know, how do we make that happen?
Actually my sister-in-law went to see it in
Australia. It premiered at the,
Adelaide Film Festival and the Gold Coast Film
Festival. It's actually released in,
it actually launches in LA on the 4th
June, so a few weeks away. It hasn't
been released yet officially.
And she saw it at the festival and
she rang me up and she said, I
want
everybody everyone needs to see this film. I
really feel,
I came out of this and thought about
how I'm gonna parent differently. And I was
fantastic. You know what? If that's how you
think about this film,
that's worth everything. If it just helps you
be a better parent, fantastic. If it helps
you understand your parents,
fantastic. If it can just change someone's life,
it's been worth it.
And so have you had a moment in
your parenting where you have been able to
confide in your children? And if so, are
you can you share with us?
Yes. I I I have. It's interesting because
I I went on a course actually,
at INSEAD in in France,
for 2 years, which is called consulting and
and consulting and coaching
for change.
It was all about these principles. It's all
about, you know, we all work on different
times and different clocks and how we're all
independent and you've got to give our children
their own time and space.
So I have myself, I think, parented differently
because of the journey I've been on. I,
have always said to my children, I encourage
them to to follow their heart. Don't do
what I think, and I really mean that.
And I think they really know that they've
they've got both my wife and my backing
to just
follow their their passion and their and their
beliefs, you know, and one child wanted to
change schools that if that's what you really
believe,
you you've got to back yourself. You forget
what I think. Forget what school I think.
What school do you think is best for
you? What university are you going to go
and study? What course are you going to
do? Well, actually, I don't want to go
to university. Okay. That's fine then then don't
go now. But let them find their own
time. Let them find their own journey. You
know, catch them when they fall. Be a
safety net for them.
Let them make their own decisions. I've really
tried to pair it as best as I
can and I I certainly don't sit here
preaching that I have all the answers. I
don't know any parent that that does.
But just to back them, just to know
that you're backing them, backing their judgment, they'll
come to you for advice when they need
it. And they ask it. Is if they
know you're not gonna, you know, ram it
down their throats, that that's hopefully a beautiful
relationship we can
we can give. So there's no manual to
be a parent, is there? You're not sort
of taught how to be a parent. We're
all we're all winging it as we go
along. But I think that journey has helped
me dramatically just to say that, you know,
people people's time
clocks are different, you know, and it you
don't know when that's gonna happen, so don't
force it. It will come, but let it
come. And so so I wanna ask, one
last question about the movie and then I
have a couple others and then we'll we'll
have to start to wrap up. But that
moment where,
the father
and Sav meet and, you know, they hug
and he basically
confides in him, right, to to use your
The first time you see them talking properly.
Right. And so I'm curious
if you've had that moment in your life
with your kids or whatever version it is.
Have you been able to have that same
again,
with
within reason,
what was your version of that?
I haven't had those sort of crying, hugging
breakdown moments with children where you confide. I
have
tried very hard to have difficult conversations with
my children, to be very frank and very
honest about things that are going on in
our lives that may be difficult and and
to not shield them from it. And I
don't remember a a a sort of first
huge conversation. Wow. That that really stands out.
But I would say
that that's been part of our way of
parenting
as much as we can,
both Louise and I, to,
not try to shield
the children from
the issues of life.
Okay. My question now before we wrap up
is what's next?
That's a good question, I have a policy
as of every few years going going I
actually started on the the holiday with with
with my wife and forcing myself
to write down some things that make you
vulnerable. I think at the end of the
day, we all need to be pushing ourselves.
There's a there's a there's a famous slide,
isn't there? Life's on the wire. They're always
just hanging around, which is the famous
title. And I think that's right. So constantly
making yourself,
vulnerable. So what are the things I think
are gonna make myself vulnerable? One thing is
to take acting classes because I think that's
making yourself really vulnerable. So I vowed that
that would be something I would do. I
have no, you know, inherent innate ability to
be an actor but actually it's something that
from the film business the next step is
great let's see what it's like to to
even take acting classes and how embarrassing to
be on stage. And, but that's great because
that's putting yourself
out there to be to be vulnerable even
if it's just a a few courses that
one that one does.
So so things that make you vulnerable, things
that you're taking risks, not being safe, constantly
being testing and, and putting yourself
out there
is my constant my constant thing. There's an
amazing
organization. It's called You Me Bum Bum Train.
I don't know if I don't know if
it's actually known in America, but it's a
it's a group of people that, you know,
you go into different rooms, you go into
different things, and and you can't reveal too
much. But it's a bit like Hoffman. You
you you you're not supposed to say too
much about what
what one does. But but you put yourself
into vulnerable situations
and you go through these these different events
and these different situations and I remember doing
that and thinking
this is incredible like that's amazing. I've never
been in that position before. Isn't that incredible?
I've never experienced that before. So if I
can just continue to experience things in life
that are
new, different, vulnerable,
making you grow, taking you out of your
comfort zone, I think that's what, you know,
I want to make sure that that I'm
doing. It's been difficult in COVID in the
last 18 months because you haven't really been
able to do too much. But to answer
your question in a sort of very succinct
way, things that take you out of the
comfort zone, things that make you feel uncomfortable,
things that make you feel, vulnerable constantly
are things to, to live by. It's like,
you know, I remember at at at Goldman's,
when I was there, there was the the
Nike advert was was quite big and strong
in those times. It was just do it.
It was 93,
94. It was a huge sort of just
do it. And that was a very much
a Goldman's motto actually just just do it.
And I read a lot of books on
markets and psychology and what have you. And
the thing that really stood out for me
was people on their deathbed. There was a
very famous book of someone who interviewed a
lot of people on their deathbeds.
You know, what was a common theme between
people on their deathbed? What was the common
thing that that came through?
And it's quite extraordinary because actually it's not
things in life, you know, that that what
did they regret.
And people didn't regret things in life they'd
done. They just regretted things in life they
hadn't done. And I think that's a huge
part of of our journey
to not be on your deathbed and leave
anything on the table, to not be on
their death and think, you know what? I
wish I'd done that. I really wish I'd
been able to do that. I would wonder
how that experience was. We don't know one
day the
sun's going to set and not come up.
We don't know when that is.
I really don't want to be on my
deathbed
and and have regrets about things I wanted
to do in life. This is not a
dress rehearsal.
This is all for us to go and
and get and so
constantly just
challenging oneself not to be complacent, not to
be comfortable, not to be in a routine,
and not to get to our end of
our days and think, I wish I'd done
that. I think that's a life well lived
a a life well worth lived.
Well, call me crazy,
but I think on your what's next list
is the Hoffman process. I don't think it's
crazy. I mean, it fat matches all the
criteria.
Literally matches all the criteria. You're probably right.
I can't help it. I can't help but
add that to your list. Acting class Hoffman
process. Okay. Fine.
Done. I'm sure that's right.
Well, Hilton, it has been a treat. Thank
you so much for sharing
your journey and some of your milestones and
the crossroads and hearing that it's your heart
speaking to you at each one of these
milestones and each one of these crossroads,
even making a 7 and a half year
movie.
We had to wait for the boy to
grow up and get his braces off so
we could then film him at a later
point without braces. And and so we waited
for him to grow up. It's a bit
like the boyhood film where the boy becomes
older. We had to wait. So that took
a long time. Yeah. Exactly. That's that's not
a small part of your life. So
that alone should get the listeners to watch
because it's literally,
it's a a going back in time, the
main character, Sav. Right? I think I got
his name right. Sav
is you see him as a young boy,
and then you see him as a teenager
or, like, it's felt to me like he
was a 19, 20 year old. And I
was like, wow. They look so much alike.
I had no idea it was the same
kid. We've had that before. People say, wow.
You got great cast. He's amazing. He looks
just like the boy like that. Yeah. Actually,
he is the boy, and it's, yeah. We
had to make him look at look at
look a a lot older. So no. The
film's out, I think, on 4th of June,
and it's on sort of Amazon Prime and
Google and Itunes and all this stuff, and
it's chasing wonders. I think film is, it's
on Facebook and Instagram. So, look, we'll we'll
we'll see what's exciting just to get it
out there. It's I'm really proud of just
having a film out there that that I'm
proud of. And if it can help change
some people's lives, then that's amazing. And I
think I don't know if we mentioned it,
but part of the proceeds of the film
actually going to the Hoffman,
Institute for Bursary to help people who maybe
couldn't afford to go on the Hoffman
process
to actually go on it. And so that's
part of the journey in bringing us back
to
where this all originated from. Again, if we
could if we could help someone go on
this journey and,
you know, themselves
be touched by by watching the film, then
that's great. And if we could also help
someone go on the Hoffman process as part
of the film because it's
generating revenues to put someone on it, that's
a double benefit. So, hopefully, we'll be able
to do that. That's amazing.
And,
and it so coincides because the story
is this is what will happen if this
is what won't happen if you do the
Hoffman process, basically.
So, they do really go hand in hand
well, and thank you again for trusting your
heart and putting the story out there and,
of course, for your generosity, which will allow
more people to take the process and in
advance for you, yourself being there. Wink wink.
I can't help it. Okay. I've just written
I'm I'm gonna write down, Sharon. I'm gonna
do the Hoffman process. There you go.
Well, when you write things down, they happen,
so be careful.
There you go.
That's it. They happen. That's it. I've written
down, so I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna
do it. Alright.
It has really, really been a treat. Thank
you. And you. It's been really lovely. Thank
you for thank you for, this I think
an hour just seemed to fly by there.
That was, I really enjoyed it and, you
know, well done all the great work that
you do. And,
I've really, really, really genuinely loved having having
our chat, and I hope we can stay
in touch.
Absolutely. And, for the listeners, thank you so
much for tuning in. We will see you
in the following episodes. And, again, it's Chasing
Wonder. We'll have links. Please support it. It's
a beautiful story.
Thank you for listening to our podcast. My
name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and
president of Hoffman Institute Foundation.
And I'm Rassie
Grassi Hoffman teacher
and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation.
Our mission is to provide people greater access
to the wisdom and power of love in
themselves
in each other, and in the world. To
find out more, please go to hanpininstitute.org.