I feel like going through my life story,
it actually it just makes it makes me
smile, and it makes me
this is where the emotion comes in.
It makes me really proud
of staying with my own process inside.
Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and
this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius.
It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute
and its stories and anecdotes
and people we interview
about their life post process
and how it lives in the world radiating
love.
This episode contains
descriptions of child sexual abuse.
Please use your discretion.
Cindy, welcome to the Hoffman podcast. Hi Drew,
thank you. It's
I was really excited and looking forward to
being here and having a conversation with you
today. Oh I mean we are excited to
get you on record and interview you. This
is a thing we do where we interview
teachers
about who they are,
about how they came to Hoffman.
Mhmm. So as you think about you,
where do we begin this story? Where should
we start it?
Well, I was lucky enough, I feel lucky,
to have done the Hoffman process
back in 2017,
and it had been recommended by somebody who
had done the process.
And for me, I was at that place
in my life where I had had a
few traumatic things. One in particular,
I had had a really
bad car accident in which I suffered a
brain injury, a traumatic brain injury. Wow.
And
when I look back on
my years,
I
had gained what we at the process call
patterns.
And so my success
was based
on my
brain working really, really well.
And
I had accomplished many things in my professional
life.
And then in a split second, it felt
like that was taken away where all of
a sudden a brain injury, I couldn't think
the way that I was used to. So
when when you say brain injury
Yeah.
What, like, what is that? What does that
even mean?
What happened?
Great question.
So I, unfortunately, was in an auto accident
where someone had fallen asleep and
hit my car, and myself and my son
was in the car. And I woke up
about twenty four hours later in trauma ICU,
and I had a skull fracture
and lots of broken ribs. And
I couldn't
think and process
the way I used to.
So
when I look at the definition of a
brain injury for me,
the leftovers
for that were,
I swapped words a lot.
I couldn't
process
the way that I used to.
Kind of a quick phrase might be I
couldn't think straight Mhmm. The way I used
to. And because
my definition of success and how I navigated
in the world
depended on my brain functioning, all of a
sudden it felt like
I had to learn a different way of
being.
And so following my brain injury, I would
say the first couple years, I was just
pissed off, if that's a okay word to
say. Right? I was just really angry
because I'd worked really hard,
in my life to get to a certain
place that I deemed as,
successful.
And when I look back, they were also
I grew up Midwestern
America,
blue collar family, and I was the first
one to go to college.
And so I really prided myself on my
success with education
and being in a profession
that,
academic profession
in which
I
was stoic
and
really relied on
thinking
and doing.
But what I also learned and what my
brain injury helped me to learn was that
I also was really walled off from my
emotions,
from my body.
There's a piece about not being connected to
your feelings
in part because of that's how you were
raised, a more stoic kind of a family
Be happy. Atmosphere. Be happy.
There's also the,
impact of the brain injury. Yeah.
But tell us a little bit about your
childhood. Like, we all get patterns from childhood.
What happened what happened in yours?
Yeah.
So,
as I said right it was a it
was a
really loving atmosphere
growing up,
and my parents were very positive.
Everything we needed, they provided for.
And at the same time, feelings weren't talked
about.
We didn't
discuss
how to move through
deeper emotions
and
hard things.
And
so when I was younger, unfortunately,
I had experienced,
sexual abuse as a child.
And at one point, my parents had found
out about it and called a family meeting.
And
I remember in that moment that
the languaging
was,
don't do that. It's not right.
And then they moved on from it. They
just buried it. Don't do what?
You shouldn't have ex you shouldn't be
having
you shouldn't be sexual
in this way.
And I was a kid and didn't know
what was happening to me. So in a
way,
it wasn't their intention, but there was a
shaming with that. That's not a proper thing
to do. We don't do that. We don't
do that. And then
we just buried it in the sand. And
so as a
kid,
we learned to just bury all emotions. It
wasn't okay to talk about hard things. And
so
here you fast forward to now I'm an
adult. Yes.
I had a very strong coping strategy. Don't
talk about feelings. Don't talk about hard things
that happen.
So be very stoic in intellect, and then
intellect,
you know, gets Offline because of the brain
injury. Because of the brain injury.
And
so moving through my life, and
this was I would have been in my
moving towards my late forties
and
was in a place where
I had done a lot of work.
I had
done therapy with licensed,
trained
clinicians
and done a lot of work on my
sexual abuse healing
and had worked with
licensed professionals regarding my brain injury.
But there was a place that I knew
I still wasn't able to connect into. I
knew there was something that lived deeper within
myself,
but I didn't quite know how to get
there.
And so is that when Hoffman came in
the pitch? Hoffman came in. Wow. Yeah. Tell
us about that. You you step into your
week.
Yeah. What begins to happen as you
have all this clarity? Because more and more
people are coming to the process
having done work already. So you have been
both done work on your your brain injury,
done work on your childhood sexual abuse Yeah.
And yet you step into this immersive
cellular journey.
What happens? Yeah.
Well, in in hindsight now,
what what I loved is when we were
getting ready to do this interview, you had
posed the question of why.
And I thought about that the over the
last couple days about why the process.
And what I realized is that why
it's still evolving. It's still revealing itself.
And one of those whys was learning
who I was,
who I really was
versus living out
what I had been taught and what had
been modeled
growing up.
And
I feel like I hit a point in
my life where
I didn't really have a clear
knowing and a connection to myself.
And
the process
very quickly, I really realized in the process
that
I had consistently been seeking outside
validation
from others in love. I mean, my my
parents were
lifers with each other. I mean, they were
this
beautiful, loving couple together, married over fifty years
before each of them passed away.
And for myself,
I had been married,
and then
I had been married about ten years and
then fell deeply in love with a woman.
And so all of a sudden, who I
thought I was and what I knew, but
also
realized I had been living this model that
my parents
had taught to me and modeled beautifully,
but inside
it wasn't me. It just wasn't me.
And so I was in a conundrum
within myself.
And what I realized is that the process
very quickly
is about
connecting into that authentic you.
And through the expressive work
and the
quieting myself and listening during the process,
I was able to
peel back a lot of those layers from
the trauma of sexual abuse going up. So
putting
really
strong
coping strategies in place for that.
And then the head injury adding into that.
And then also this, well, who am I?
Because what I realized is my whole life
I had tried to
pattern
my life after
what my parents modeled,
while at the same time having a deep
inner knowing that it wasn't who I was.
I am not them. I'm not them, but
yet I was rigid in holding on to
trying to be like them even though
I wasn't. Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow. So there's a a soup.
The the head injury,
the,
understanding of you being gay
Mhmm. The childhood sexual abuse, all that sort
of swims
Yeah.
In your
process,
what happens towards the end of the week?
How do you begin to make sense of
it all? Well, that's where there's a piece
during the process that that we call expressive
work.
And that's where it felt like I was
really able to use my voice
and open up parts of me that had
felt so walled off and confused
within myself.
And what I also realized is
I had
unfairly
put expectations
and in a way burden
on partners that I had been with.
And so to
be able to use my voice that week,
to be able to write and express
and to move
what I had
really
packed down within myself
to free that
really freed up
me getting to know
who I was and what my voice was
rather than seeking the external
validation.
That's great insight. You had packed it down.
And by using your voice, you were really
able to go places
that you hadn't previously gone. Yeah. And, you
know, some people might say, do I,
why
expression? Why this cathartic work? Do I really
need to use my voice? Yeah. And for
you,
like, what was it like to I imagine
right out of the gate, you're not like,
here's my truth.
I'm speaking it. No. Imagine it was a
bit of a wrestling match
with your internal patterns that had been in
existence for a couple decades
Yeah. By the time you took the process.
Several decades. So how was that
struggle? Yeah.
For me
for me, what I realize is if if
if most people describe me as a teenager
in my twenties and my thirties,
Even my ex husband had said this. He
used to say, you're like a brick wall.
And
I presented
as really
angry
and closed off.
And
in the expression work, it wasn't about
anger
and being angry
at
what had happened to me and trying to
figure, you know, with the brain injury and
the abuse.
It wasn't about being angry. What I realized
is it was about
being able to shift that from
anger
to
expansiveness.
It let me be expansive rather than pushing
down. I was now able to
open up
and move through the world that felt much
more authentic and real rather than having to
stay
closed off. So let me ask you a
question. If I if somebody had said to
you, like, take this anger energy and get
the insight is this, the unlock is this,
the hack
is this, the the new way of framing
this is to go from
anger to expansiveness
to Mhmm. Would that have worked if someone
had just told you the insight?
No. No.
Because
it wasn't until I experienced it
and felt that shift within myself.
And what I would say also is realizing
that that resource actually did live within me.
I did have that resource, and it had
been there all along.
Do do you know when it happened in
your cathartic or expressive experience?
Did you feel it emerge in your belly,
in your
solar plexus? Like,
do you have a sense of how it
kind of or maybe it's so mysterious we
don't really know how these things the wisdom
comes from within.
Yes. It feels mysterious.
What it also felt like is
at one point during the process,
something
shifted within me
through the experiences
that a student goes through in the process.
There's a shift from having to know things
and figure it out
to be one step ahead,
analyzing,
processing,
which I was really good at and spent
most of the time doing,
to all of a sudden,
there was an opening,
a space that was created where all of
a sudden,
I realized
that I wanted to be more curious
and responsive in life,
and I had been living from a place
of being reactive.
Just react, react, react versus
there was all of a sudden this calmness
Once some space was cleared, a calmness to
say,
woah.
How can I just
sense be in the sensing
of my life and the experiences
that I have rather than having to wrestle
and fight those?
And how did that impact
the rest of your week?
When once you had that insight that
just open up, just relax, be a little
more curious, stop trying to predict what's gonna
happen,
Did
that impact and affect how the week unfolded
for you?
Yes. Yes.
And I'm I'm I'm going I'm actually in
the middle of going back and re experiencing,
and that's what I find that's so yeah.
Wow. And that's what I find that's so
beautiful about the processes.
Even though I did the process while it
would be,
eight and a half years ago,
my body,
Right? My
I still feel that. There's still a connection
to what happened
during that week
and
what continues
to evolve
even today, eight and a half years later.
And what I would say is how
it shifted during that week was there was
a softness.
There was a softness, and
I'll come back to that word, an expansiveness
that came in.
And I would also say curious
curiosity.
Wow.
What have I
been so busy controlling
and afraid of
experiencing
my whole life?
And now it's almost like that script flipped
where,
woah.
What do I now get to experience
and be part of in my life? And
how do I just allow
life to happen
and need it
versus wrestling and fighting it? That's a great
word you used earlier. Right? That wrestling and
fighting versus allowing.
And do you see that as a Hoffman
process teacher now that you're
you've been teaching for years do you see
that same struggle with your students and how
do you support them
in letting go and allowing? It's easy words
to say but it's a hard place to
to live and surrender to. Is it not?
Yes.
Yes. And I see that.
And and that's what I feel is is
one of the blessings and the honor of
being a Hoffman teacher
is I really believe in being able to
walk alongside them and just holding space for
what they discover
about themselves.
And what you said earlier is
is a is a is a thought that
I have. It's a great phrase of,
if somebody would have told
me, it doesn't have the same impact
as just allowing
and holding the space as a teacher
for our
students
to move into
what is emerging
within themselves.
And that's what I was able to experience,
and that's
that's what led me to want to be
a teacher at the end of the week.
I mean, I'm I'm a trained,
licensed clinician.
I think this And you were a therapist.
And I was yeah. Psychotherapist.
And I also, I teach at Western Michigan
University. I teach graduate and undergraduate students in
the social work department at Western Michigan University.
And oftentimes,
during classes,
students who are becoming therapists, they wanna have
the right words. They wanna have,
you know, the perfect thing to say to
people to help them. And oftentimes my role,
it's the same with the Hoffman teacher but
also theirs, it's not about having the right
thing to say.
It's about really being present
and holding the space for them to discover
that path that they're on.
Yeah. I mean, it's a,
you're the teacher. You're the professor. You're the
one that has the wisdom, the knowledge you
impart to these students. That's why they're there.
They're taking notes. Mhmm. And yet part of
what you're saying is that
you're guiding them to the wisdom that lives
within.
Yes.
And what I would also add on to
that, Drew,
is
I've now not been in relationship for about
three years. I've been single. And I and
even though
I date on occasion, I've been single, and
it's it's the first time in my entire
life that I've not been in a relationship.
And while I still hope to have that
and
and would like to be,
what I realized is
I really
like my own company. I like who I
am,
and I had never
felt that way before. It was always about
getting that external validation. Oh, if somebody loves
me, if somebody wants to be with me,
then I'm lovable, then I'm okay.
And that's where the process
has really helped me also. And what I
realize is
many people who come to the process, it's
a common phrase we hear is, I don't
know how to love myself. I don't know
how to give to myself. I don't know
how to connect into my deeper knowing and
my deeper deeper wisdom and have that love
for myself.
And so in that place, it's another,
just
incredible experience to hold that space and presence
for people
to learn
how to love themselves and to go, wow.
I'm I'm pretty good company. And what do
you mean? Being with myself. This is so
good because it's such a simple idea and
it's such a an important
nuanced journey towards self love.
So what's it like to be a steward
of this self love? To be a guide
for these students
in their week,
guiding them back towards their own wisdom, their
own love, their own compassion?
How is that for you to be on
that?
Gone from student
now to teacher to guide to space holder.
The word that comes often is just
it's an honor. It's an honor to hold
space,
and it also feels
purposeful
is the word that comes.
But I hesitated on that because
that purpose
also knowing that I'm doing what feels purposeful
to me
allows me also
to stay centered and grounded.
Right? So it feels centering. It feels grounding
because
being able to just really
hold the container
for students
during the week,
people come there to do hard work. I
came to the process. That's what led me
to the process,
is I knew I wanted to get to
a certain place. I knew there was a
place
that lived within me. I just didn't know
how to get there
and how to be that because I'd get
swept up in patterns. I get swept up
in those shoulds and those shouldn'ts from childhood
that were just so ingrained
in me.
And so
learning how to hold all
the beautiful qualities that I did learn
and were modeled growing up
while simultaneously
just holding
what wasn't mine and what I knew wasn't
my path and really wasn't
internally
me.
And so now hold just holding both of
those side by side
gently and lovingly,
and I bring that into the students because
that's what I see in the students
when they come due to the process. There's
this inner turmoil,
either in their profession or their relationships
or in their relationship with themselves,
and how to bring all those beautiful wonderful
qualities that they do have alongside
with reconnecting
to who they know they are authentically and
being able
to touch upon that and be able to
then start to live again from that place
within themselves.
I love that. I love it.
As, you know, you you referenced I wanna
ask a question about because at at the
process, we talk about the positive legacy
of our mother and our father. And at
some point during the week,
we have an experience
in honoring
that they actually did, on some level, give
us things that we want to embrace Yeah.
Double down on a little bit. We wanna
tease out the difference between the the patterned
part that they gave us, but there are
many wonderful qualities.
And for you, it sounds like
you're reclaiming,
having teased out some of those patterns around
emotions
and only certain emotions are allowed,
what have you come to embrace
as the positive legacy
of your mom and your dad?
Oh, it's a great question
in that way. And and because
sometimes I also hear from students, I'll preface
this with saying, sometimes
actually oftentimes I'll hear from students saying,
you know, I didn't have these huge traumatic
things. Right? I actually had a pretty good
childhood.
And and what I would say about myself
and with other people coming to the process
is what I say is,
yes, and there are still patterns
that are having some they're having real consequences
in your life, that you aren't living this
true and authentic
place where you're really centered and connected.
And so for me,
it was
loyalty to family.
Right? There was such a loyalty to family
and relationship.
And
in that place that I
held that
so tightly,
I lost track of who I was within
that.
Sounds like
loyalty
to the extreme,
loyalty
to the denial of who you are. Yes.
Yes. And so now I feel like I'm
in that place where I can still hold
on to those great things of loyalty. Right?
That deep connection to people
and
showing up showing up and being loving,
a wholeness.
Right? A wholeness within that with also
not dipping back into the patterns
of,
oh, now I'm moving away from who I
am
and and and who I know my my
being is
within that. It can be a complicated thing
to both
remember love both your parents have passed. Yeah.
So to hold them with deep respect,
care, and love in their memory
and all the wonderful things they gave you.
And at the same time,
remember some of the patterns and the stuff
they taught you as problematic
and
as hard on you and having a negative
consequence. Yeah. To hold both those isn't how
do you navigate the the both end of
your mom and dad's legacy?
Oh,
how I hold both of those
is that's where I really utilize the tools
and practices.
I know
I I have friends lots of friends who
are psychotherapists
because that's that was my profession before becoming
a teacher.
And they've often asked me the question,
why the process? Right? Why why this Hoffman
process? Oh, this is good. So these people
in the,
psychology
field
as therapists
are kinda curious with you and your Hoffman.
Yeah.
Very much so. They wanna know what what
makes Hoffman different from the work that we
do. Exactly. And so what do you say?
Well, what I often say is is it's
it's not a replacement
or,
counter to.
What I like to say is it's a
complimentary
because it is really important
to have
a, like, a professionally
trained licensed
therapist that can help you through
some of the issues that you have in
your life. And where Hoffman for me Hoffman
came in complimentary
and really walked alongside of it
where
I was able to get in touch with
what we talk about at the processes, those
other aspects of ourselves
really deepening into, well, what are my emotions
and
staying with that and feeling it.
Because
as wonderful as my childhood was,
we didn't learn how to stay with those
really hard deep feelings
and let them be as reverent
in our
life
as
the positive,
always being happy and
finding the good in every not finding the
good in everything, I should say.
That would be the patterned version because Yeah.
There is pain and pain
and sadness. Rather than being able to just
be and sit in that sadness and really
be able to move through it versus,
you know, pushing it away and pushing it
away. Damn. And the other aspects that I
would say is is the process
really helped me get in touch with my
body because I really disconnected from that, from
the abuse as a child.
And also,
not going into to the feelings.
And so
coming
back full circle to, oh, I'm able to
stop and say, okay.
I might have a hard situation
that might be happening, or I might feel
upset about something.
And I'm able to just pause
now
and have all those good qualities that my
family taught me, which is like, k. It'll
be okay.
Things will work themselves through
and bring in the other, which is and
what is my body feeling in this moment?
And letting my body feel it and not
pushing it away. What am
I emotionally feeling this morning? And really being
with it and giving
those their
due diligence
and their
their voice. Yeah. So
why has allowing your feelings to
be a part of the dialogue and in
particular around,
allowing your body sensations
to be held with reverence.
Why is that helping you in your life?
Why is that a a better path for
you?
What I find for myself is I'm more
present in every moment.
I used to be very much into the
pre prehofen,
doing, doing, doing,
doing, always thinking ahead, always strategizing,
always planning, always solving.
And
I feel like now I'm able to just
be in the present moment, in each moment.
I don't have to look ahead.
I don't have to stay stuck in the
past.
I can just truly be in each
present
moment.
Yeah.
Presence is such a, you know, a word
that's thrown out around a lot, but when
you're talking about not future tripping and not,
you know,
ruminating in the past
that does leave this one final place to
hang out in. What's it like to be
more present
in your life as a result of this
work?
My nervous system
Huge.
Is calm.
And even when things arise, like, a a
quick example is
yesterday, I got online,
my financial person it's the end of the
year and my financial person said, I'm gonna
switch a couple things. So I thought, oh,
I'll get online and just take a look
at the account, see what he did.
So I bring it up online, and it
says I have $27
in my retirement account.
Now
there should have been a few more zeros
after that.
And in that moment,
of course, I had a reaction. I'm like,
just for a moment.
And then I just softened
because all my Hoffman tools and practices came
in, and I just softened in that moment.
And I thought,
just pause for a moment.
There's got to be a really good explanation
for this.
And I found myself getting curious.
I wonder what happened.
And what I realized is in the past,
I would have went
down a very
chaotic road. I would have immediately called him.
I would have been freaking out. I would
have panicked. My nervous system would have exploded
inside.
And
I realized, wow, I don't have to go
to that place.
How can I be curious about
and respond
versus react in this moment? And then I
thought, wow. This is this has been
the brilliance
and the benefit
that is now deeply ingrained in me,
like, embodied in me, is to be able
to respond
when things happen versus react.
So I called my adviser. I said, this
happened.
And he said, wow. I bet you you
just freaked out.
And I said,
for a moment,
literally for a moment, because it that's a
normal it's normal that that would happen, but
it didn't last. And that's what I noticed
is my nervous system calls calms much faster.
And it ended up being I'd actually used
a wrong sign on,
and I didn't even know that I had
a different account from a way, way old
retirement fund where there was $27
left in it.
And so
in that moment, it all worked out fine.
Soon as I did the right sign on,
everything was there that was supposed to be.
And I thought to myself, this is the
epitome right here
of
how I'm living my life differently
Beautiful. Since the process. Beautiful. It kinda works
that way, doesn't it? Where sometimes
we don't know we get the gains we
get until we have an experience,
and then we're like, oh, that that was
different. That was better. Yeah. I like that.
Wonderful.
So
you talked a lot, Cindy, about tools and
practices, and I really wanna end this conversation
without checking in with a teacher
about her own favorite tools and practices.
What do you do? What do you like?
What are some of the,
tools and tricks in your tool bag that
you use to
stay grounded to do do this work? It's
a it's a great question, Drew, because what
what automatically comes to mind is oftentimes
as as a teacher,
oftentimes I talk with students, and they may
be a month or two out from having
done their process. They might be a year
out from doing their process. They might be
two years out from doing their process. And
and on occasion, I hear, wow. Right? I
don't feel like I'm really utilizing
the tools. But when we start talking about
them, and I know this is true for
myself, is
what I what what we discover,
what I discover and talk through with students
is they are. They're using them every single
day and they're really subtle.
Right? They're just
because they've embodied it. They've become those tools
and practices. Cindy, this is so good. So
their definition
of using the tools
isn't inclusive
of what they're actually doing that is more
subtle, more embodied,
but equally as powerful.
Yes.
And so those tools and practices is similar
to the story I just told us. In
that moment,
I was able to pause and take in
a breath,
connected in with my spiritual self.
I got curious
instead of going into patterns of doom and
gloom and dread and,
you know, thinking my financial advisor was, you
know, somewhere on a beach in The Bahamas
enjoying With your retirement.
Right. And so
pausing,
connecting into the different
aspects of myself. What's my body
experiencing right now? And how do I listen
to what it needs?
What is my emotional self? How do I
let that just move through?
Take a breath and be with that. Those
are kind of in the moment tools
as opposed to stepping out of life doing
a quad check or a centering practice or
a gratitude practice.
You're talking about embodied
in the moment
check ins
that are very subtle and yet really keep
you grounded.
So the other tool that I utilize
that I didn't the first couple years for
whatever reason,
and I that's the other thing is I
find the tools and practices,
they they come in. Some are more prevalent
at certain times and certain experiences,
and then others
will come back in here, and then others
I use less and then they come back
in. But the one that I probably use
the most now is what we call pre
cycling,
and that's
imagining a situation that I'm going into
where I know
that
there's going to be some energy that will
probably come up. It might be a hard
conversation.
It might be something that might be stressful.
And I will
imagine myself
connected
to my spiritual self,
connected into
my wholeness and who I know I can
be
before I enter into that situation.
So good. And so by the time I
get there,
I walk in
rather than going into patterns
and reaction.
I'm able to move into that space.
And how long does that take, that pre
cycling little thing for you when you're Seconds.
Seconds. Seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and
in the process,
we we it's much longer because we really
teach
teach that in a didactic way. But once
you practice that and you build that muscle
You can compress it a little bit. That's
that's an important piece. It doesn't need to
be this elongated thing
that you can get the essence of it,
and it really works for you. Yeah. Yeah.
And I find that with students, oftentimes, they'll
say, wow. I can do this.
Right? It's just it's automatic now. I can
do it
in the moment. It only takes a few
seconds.
Yeah.
How you doing? What's it like to to
sit and reflect? I mean, you went way
back, Cindy, and then brought in your your
experience
leading up to being
a student and then being a teacher.
You you have
so stewarded so much good stuff in Canada
that's you teach both places, but
you've
also, you live in Canada part time. I
do. I do. So I live actually near
the site that
where the process is taught in Canada,
And
I moved there about,
two years ago, and I'm now a dual
citizen. Oh. And so,
I feel very fortunate that I get to
teach in The United States for the process,
and I also get to teach in Canada.
And I feel like
going through my life story and actually it
just makes it makes me smile, and it
makes me
this is where the emotion comes in.
It makes me really proud
of staying with my own process inside
and feeling the hurt and the disappointments,
not only from others, but within myself.
Right? Those places where I've made mistakes, those
places where I've tripped up, those places where
I haven't made good choices,
but also able to hold those with such
love and gentleness of knowing
I was doing my best
and that it doesn't end here. Hopefully, I
still have many, many more years ago, but
that the combination
and the confluence
of all of these experiences
make up the whole of who I am.
And
that's what the process allows, and and I
get the
I get to witness that with the students.
I get to witness that with the students,
and they're coming into their life experience
and being able to love themself
through
it all also.
Wow. You are
embodying
the work,
embodying your essence,
and I am grateful
grateful for you, grateful for this conversation.
Thank you, Cindy. Thank you, Drew. Appreciate it.
Thank you for having me here.
Thanks.
Thank you for listening to the Hoffman podcast.
My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO
of the Hoffman Institute Foundation
and a Hoffman teacher. Our mission is to
provide greater access to the wisdom and power
of love within ourselves, in our relationships,
and in the world.
To learn more or to support our mission,
we invite you to visit hoffmaninstitute.org.