1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,019 In the q two, I had this profound 2 00:00:04,719 --> 00:00:05,219 experience 3 00:00:05,679 --> 00:00:07,700 of self forgiveness and self compassion, 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:08,740 and 5 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:10,800 it makes me emotional even thinking about it 6 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,539 right now. 7 00:00:13,365 --> 00:00:14,744 But I literally, 8 00:00:15,445 --> 00:00:18,504 in that moment, felt a physical weight 9 00:00:18,885 --> 00:00:20,265 coming off of me. 10 00:00:20,644 --> 00:00:22,644 I realized at that moment that I had 11 00:00:22,644 --> 00:00:23,224 a choice 12 00:00:23,765 --> 00:00:25,940 at that point forward whether I wanted to 13 00:00:25,940 --> 00:00:28,739 put that weight back on or whether I 14 00:00:28,739 --> 00:00:30,039 wanted to let it go. 15 00:00:31,219 --> 00:00:34,100 Hello, and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a 16 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:36,920 podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. 17 00:00:37,034 --> 00:00:38,954 My name is Sadie Hanna. And in this 18 00:00:38,954 --> 00:00:42,715 podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with 19 00:00:42,715 --> 00:00:45,914 graduates about their courageous journey inward, and how 20 00:00:45,914 --> 00:00:48,554 their love and light are living in the 21 00:00:48,554 --> 00:00:51,295 world around them. Love's Everyday Radius. 22 00:00:51,670 --> 00:00:53,210 Thank you for being here and welcome. 23 00:00:57,909 --> 00:01:01,269 Hey everyone. Welcome. I'm Sadie Gardere and I'm 24 00:01:01,269 --> 00:01:03,909 here today with Alison Kaylor, who is a 25 00:01:03,909 --> 00:01:07,215 Hoffman grad. Alison, welcome. Thanks for having me, 26 00:01:07,215 --> 00:01:07,715 Sadie. 27 00:01:08,174 --> 00:01:10,754 Yeah, I'm so happy to have this conversation. 28 00:01:11,135 --> 00:01:11,635 And 29 00:01:12,415 --> 00:01:14,895 I often begin by saying, tell us a 30 00:01:14,895 --> 00:01:16,754 bit about who you are and 31 00:01:17,230 --> 00:01:18,989 wherever you'd like to begin is good for 32 00:01:18,989 --> 00:01:19,489 me. 33 00:01:19,790 --> 00:01:21,629 It's a great question to start, and it's 34 00:01:21,629 --> 00:01:24,769 one that the answer has changed pretty significantly 35 00:01:25,150 --> 00:01:27,170 over the past couple of years. So 36 00:01:27,469 --> 00:01:30,349 I would have led very much with my 37 00:01:30,349 --> 00:01:31,409 professional identity 38 00:01:32,055 --> 00:01:34,155 in the past. So I would have introduced 39 00:01:34,215 --> 00:01:37,435 myself as a partner at a consulting firm 40 00:01:37,734 --> 00:01:38,795 living in Chicago, 41 00:01:39,415 --> 00:01:41,015 and then I probably would have followed up 42 00:01:41,015 --> 00:01:43,814 with the personal news about being married but 43 00:01:43,814 --> 00:01:44,795 with no kids. 44 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:47,299 Today, as we sit here, 45 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,620 I would say I'm 46 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,219 Allison Kaler. I'm based in Santa Monica, California. 47 00:01:54,159 --> 00:01:54,659 I'm 48 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,939 divorced and self employed. I 49 00:01:58,585 --> 00:02:01,545 spend my time now as an executive coach 50 00:02:01,545 --> 00:02:02,844 and leadership advisor, 51 00:02:03,385 --> 00:02:05,805 and I'm the host of a new podcast 52 00:02:06,105 --> 00:02:07,245 called The Details. 53 00:02:07,944 --> 00:02:10,840 So, yeah, wonderful to be here today. So 54 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,760 exciting. And I wanna hear more about that. 55 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,180 We were speaking before about 56 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:16,219 the beautiful 57 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,500 way that the timing has happened to unfold. 58 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,780 I first met you in a Q2. 59 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,580 So for those who are listening, a Q2 60 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:28,574 is a graduate program that you can take 61 00:02:28,574 --> 00:02:30,914 after you've taken the full seven day process. 62 00:02:31,375 --> 00:02:33,534 There are many grads that want to either 63 00:02:33,534 --> 00:02:34,034 refresh 64 00:02:34,334 --> 00:02:37,155 to deepen or to navigate a particular 65 00:02:37,694 --> 00:02:40,094 challenge in life. And they'll come back for 66 00:02:40,094 --> 00:02:42,800 a three day program. I heard wonderful things 67 00:02:43,180 --> 00:02:45,199 mainly about your realness 68 00:02:46,060 --> 00:02:47,120 and your authenticity. 69 00:02:47,659 --> 00:02:49,280 And I was really intrigued 70 00:02:49,659 --> 00:02:51,840 to have this conversation because of that. 71 00:02:52,139 --> 00:02:54,000 Well, thank you for saying that. 72 00:02:54,344 --> 00:02:56,525 It means a lot because those have been 73 00:02:57,064 --> 00:02:57,564 truly 74 00:02:57,944 --> 00:03:00,025 some of the biggest outputs that have come 75 00:03:00,025 --> 00:03:02,044 out of my time at the process. 76 00:03:02,504 --> 00:03:05,025 I did the process in July 77 00:03:05,025 --> 00:03:05,864 2024, 78 00:03:05,864 --> 00:03:07,884 and it came at a real inflection 79 00:03:08,185 --> 00:03:09,884 point in my life. 80 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:11,219 I had 81 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,540 gotten divorced six years previously 82 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:14,900 and 83 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,900 moved from Chicago 84 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:17,780 to 85 00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:20,659 Santa Monica a year prior. 86 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:21,540 And 87 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,340 a month before showing up at the process, 88 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:25,139 I 89 00:03:25,615 --> 00:03:27,775 had resigned from the only company that I 90 00:03:27,775 --> 00:03:29,775 had ever worked for and spent almost two 91 00:03:29,775 --> 00:03:30,835 decades at. 92 00:03:31,775 --> 00:03:34,175 So it's not that the process triggered a 93 00:03:34,175 --> 00:03:36,034 bunch of these changes, but 94 00:03:36,495 --> 00:03:37,715 the process was 95 00:03:38,069 --> 00:03:40,409 something that really helped me to integrate 96 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:41,849 these changes 97 00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:43,050 and 98 00:03:43,349 --> 00:03:45,830 something that really allowed me to step into 99 00:03:45,830 --> 00:03:47,909 this next chapter of my life in a 100 00:03:47,909 --> 00:03:48,889 way that felt 101 00:03:49,189 --> 00:03:52,409 really aligned and authentic and not driven by 102 00:03:53,275 --> 00:03:53,854 the external 103 00:03:54,235 --> 00:03:54,735 validation 104 00:03:55,354 --> 00:03:58,074 and the shoulds in life that had really 105 00:03:58,074 --> 00:04:00,895 driven a lot of my earlier life decisions. 106 00:04:01,914 --> 00:04:02,414 And 107 00:04:02,715 --> 00:04:04,794 happy to share more about my experience at 108 00:04:04,794 --> 00:04:07,194 the process, but on the q two, which 109 00:04:07,194 --> 00:04:07,854 I did 110 00:04:08,250 --> 00:04:10,430 a little over a year after the process, 111 00:04:11,049 --> 00:04:13,469 it felt really important for me 112 00:04:14,409 --> 00:04:16,169 to come back to some of the things 113 00:04:16,169 --> 00:04:17,550 that I hadn't fully 114 00:04:18,729 --> 00:04:19,229 addressed 115 00:04:19,610 --> 00:04:22,314 in the process. And that was mainly around 116 00:04:23,254 --> 00:04:25,415 my divorce and some of the things I 117 00:04:25,415 --> 00:04:26,154 was still 118 00:04:26,935 --> 00:04:27,435 questioning, 119 00:04:27,735 --> 00:04:31,334 wrestling with, reflecting on, and healing from. So 120 00:04:31,334 --> 00:04:33,975 to me, the q two that we wrapped 121 00:04:33,975 --> 00:04:35,754 up last September was really 122 00:04:36,199 --> 00:04:38,600 just this full circle moment of feeling like, 123 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,300 okay. I now feel like 124 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,360 I have addressed a lot of the big 125 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,439 things. It's still very much a work in 126 00:04:44,439 --> 00:04:45,500 process, but 127 00:04:45,959 --> 00:04:48,360 it was a really profound experience for me 128 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,595 both attending the process and the q two. 129 00:04:50,915 --> 00:04:52,055 Yeah. So going 130 00:04:52,514 --> 00:04:55,235 before the process, it sounds like change was 131 00:04:55,235 --> 00:04:56,055 already afoot 132 00:04:56,514 --> 00:04:59,254 and you were already aware of something catalyzing 133 00:04:59,475 --> 00:05:00,615 change in your life. 134 00:05:01,235 --> 00:05:03,314 What was that? If you could speak to 135 00:05:03,314 --> 00:05:05,014 it, where did your journey begin? 136 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:08,639 I think going back to childhood and growing 137 00:05:08,639 --> 00:05:11,040 up, I grew up in a really loving 138 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:11,540 household. 139 00:05:12,079 --> 00:05:12,579 I 140 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,279 had one younger sister and my parents. I 141 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,040 grew up Catholic. I grew up in this 142 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,334 sort of idyllic 143 00:05:18,634 --> 00:05:21,035 Western suburb of Chicago and sort of had 144 00:05:21,035 --> 00:05:22,254 what would be on paper 145 00:05:22,714 --> 00:05:23,774 a perfect childhood. 146 00:05:24,074 --> 00:05:27,055 But I grew up very achievement oriented, 147 00:05:27,675 --> 00:05:29,214 very driven by 148 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:30,860 a sense of approval, 149 00:05:31,319 --> 00:05:33,819 definitely from my parents, but also from 150 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,500 teachers and sports coaches and all these things. 151 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,240 And, you know, for whatever reason, picked up 152 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:42,460 the message of 153 00:05:43,305 --> 00:05:45,785 I never feel good enough, that I have 154 00:05:45,785 --> 00:05:48,045 to prove my worth through 155 00:05:48,745 --> 00:05:51,884 achievement, through the report cards and, 156 00:05:52,504 --> 00:05:55,245 you know, the different sports accomplishments and things. 157 00:05:55,464 --> 00:05:58,125 And all of that carried forward into 158 00:05:58,790 --> 00:06:00,410 college and my early career 159 00:06:00,870 --> 00:06:03,689 where it was no longer the sort of 160 00:06:03,750 --> 00:06:07,110 external pressures of being good enough, but really 161 00:06:07,110 --> 00:06:09,990 these voices that just got ingrained in my 162 00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:12,230 head. And even if everybody else was giving 163 00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:14,725 me positive feedback, I was telling myself that 164 00:06:14,725 --> 00:06:16,485 I was never good enough. It was never 165 00:06:16,485 --> 00:06:17,225 good enough. 166 00:06:17,845 --> 00:06:19,625 And so I just got in this cycle 167 00:06:19,845 --> 00:06:23,524 of trying to achieve, achieve, achieve, and work 168 00:06:23,524 --> 00:06:24,024 became 169 00:06:24,644 --> 00:06:26,564 pretty much the number one focus in my 170 00:06:26,564 --> 00:06:29,329 life. So I started at that company that 171 00:06:29,329 --> 00:06:31,009 I worked at when I was at in 172 00:06:31,009 --> 00:06:32,689 the summer between my junior and senior year 173 00:06:32,689 --> 00:06:34,689 of college, and I spent, you know, almost 174 00:06:34,689 --> 00:06:37,189 two decades there. And it was always about 175 00:06:37,410 --> 00:06:39,810 when's the next promotion, what can I do, 176 00:06:39,810 --> 00:06:42,149 how can I get the best rating or, 177 00:06:42,314 --> 00:06:43,774 you know, performance review? 178 00:06:44,235 --> 00:06:45,375 And all the while, 179 00:06:45,915 --> 00:06:47,435 there were elements of the job that I 180 00:06:47,435 --> 00:06:48,415 really enjoyed, 181 00:06:49,194 --> 00:06:51,995 but it felt like at times I was 182 00:06:51,995 --> 00:06:55,615 force fitting things that it just something wasn't 183 00:06:55,834 --> 00:06:56,894 a right fit. 184 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,800 I always say it wasn't like it was 185 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,579 like a square peg in a round hole, 186 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,040 but it was like a square peg in, 187 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,600 like, a slightly, like, tilted, like, maybe a 188 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,120 rectangular hole. And so it was like, I 189 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,959 could kinda force fit it and make it 190 00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:09,459 fit. 191 00:07:10,115 --> 00:07:11,954 But I started to have this realization on 192 00:07:11,954 --> 00:07:13,794 the career side that the path that I 193 00:07:13,794 --> 00:07:15,794 was on was just staying at this same 194 00:07:15,794 --> 00:07:17,954 job in the same role for the rest 195 00:07:17,954 --> 00:07:19,634 of my life. And did I truly want 196 00:07:19,634 --> 00:07:20,134 that? 197 00:07:20,914 --> 00:07:22,214 And then I had to 198 00:07:23,060 --> 00:07:25,240 really wrestle with the question of like, oh, 199 00:07:25,540 --> 00:07:27,860 I'm allowed to want things? Like, I'm allowed 200 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:28,519 to have 201 00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:31,879 preferences and desires and things, and 202 00:07:32,339 --> 00:07:34,839 to actually listen to those and honor those? 203 00:07:35,139 --> 00:07:37,894 That was really foreign for me. People used 204 00:07:37,894 --> 00:07:39,814 to say, well, what does your gut say? 205 00:07:39,814 --> 00:07:41,514 What does your inner voice say? 206 00:07:42,214 --> 00:07:44,235 And I'd be like, I don't know. 207 00:07:44,694 --> 00:07:47,175 I really I was just so disconnected from 208 00:07:47,175 --> 00:07:50,079 that piece. And so I think for, call 209 00:07:50,079 --> 00:07:52,639 it, the last several years, there was this 210 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:53,860 kind of like simmering 211 00:07:54,479 --> 00:07:56,419 in the background of just knowing 212 00:07:57,279 --> 00:07:59,839 there's gotta be something more. Right? Like, this 213 00:07:59,839 --> 00:08:01,060 just can't be it. 214 00:08:01,439 --> 00:08:03,685 There's not one thing you might point to 215 00:08:03,685 --> 00:08:06,504 in childhood. Some people have a very clear 216 00:08:06,964 --> 00:08:07,464 reason 217 00:08:07,925 --> 00:08:10,024 for the suffering that they feel, 218 00:08:10,485 --> 00:08:12,884 but many of us have this experience of 219 00:08:12,884 --> 00:08:14,024 like, somehow 220 00:08:14,324 --> 00:08:15,944 I just picked up that message 221 00:08:16,485 --> 00:08:18,740 that I'm not enough. And that's a really 222 00:08:18,740 --> 00:08:20,900 confusing place to be because you don't quite 223 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:24,100 know. And that almost fit, but not quite 224 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:27,080 in the tension that's there of trying anyway, 225 00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:29,714 that alluring place of, well, just 226 00:08:30,194 --> 00:08:32,274 a little longer, just keep trying a little 227 00:08:32,274 --> 00:08:32,774 harder. 228 00:08:33,634 --> 00:08:35,634 I just think that's really relevant and a 229 00:08:35,634 --> 00:08:37,495 lot of people have that experience. 230 00:08:38,195 --> 00:08:41,315 Yeah. And I think what that also triggered 231 00:08:41,315 --> 00:08:43,794 for me was just this tremendous sense of 232 00:08:43,794 --> 00:08:44,294 guilt. 233 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,580 And some of this may be 234 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:49,679 from the Catholic upbringing or other things, but 235 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,279 it was just like, what do you have 236 00:08:51,279 --> 00:08:52,340 to complain about? 237 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:55,299 You grew up in the perfect childhood. 238 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,100 You have two parents who are still together 239 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,304 and love each other. You 240 00:09:01,004 --> 00:09:04,445 didn't want for anything financially growing up. I 241 00:09:04,445 --> 00:09:07,804 had no big t trauma growing up. And 242 00:09:07,804 --> 00:09:10,445 so who am I to complain? It feels 243 00:09:10,445 --> 00:09:12,625 self indulgent to be even 244 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,559 doing any of this reflection work. Just be 245 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,960 grateful for what you have. Look at everything 246 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:18,779 that you have. 247 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,720 And so I really wrestled with not only 248 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,639 the questioning of how I was feeling, but 249 00:09:23,639 --> 00:09:25,580 feeling really bad about it too. 250 00:09:26,014 --> 00:09:27,855 Yeah. So here you are with the sense 251 00:09:27,855 --> 00:09:30,095 that there must be something more, but also 252 00:09:30,095 --> 00:09:31,715 not feeling a real clear 253 00:09:32,174 --> 00:09:34,115 gut feeling towards what that was. 254 00:09:34,975 --> 00:09:37,054 It sounds like a realization. Oh, I might 255 00:09:37,054 --> 00:09:40,269 want something. I might get to have a 256 00:09:40,269 --> 00:09:40,769 dream 257 00:09:41,389 --> 00:09:43,649 for something. Tell us what happened next. 258 00:09:44,190 --> 00:09:45,870 When I really started to get in touch 259 00:09:45,870 --> 00:09:47,970 with, like, what do I want? 260 00:09:48,509 --> 00:09:50,669 Like, I can point back to a time 261 00:09:50,669 --> 00:09:51,889 in 2017. 262 00:09:52,625 --> 00:09:53,125 I 263 00:09:53,504 --> 00:09:55,365 was really struggling with my marriage 264 00:09:56,225 --> 00:09:57,825 at that point. I think it was right 265 00:09:57,825 --> 00:09:59,125 around the time that I 266 00:09:59,745 --> 00:10:02,384 had spoken with my now ex husband about 267 00:10:02,384 --> 00:10:04,784 thinking that I wanted a separation or that 268 00:10:04,784 --> 00:10:06,804 we really started going into couples therapy. 269 00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:10,240 And I was coming off of my most 270 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:10,740 challenging 271 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,000 project at work, and I decided to take 272 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,059 a two month sabbatical. 273 00:10:15,759 --> 00:10:16,259 And 274 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,879 I went for part of the time, not 275 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:20,820 the whole time, but I went to France 276 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,659 for a month by myself. 277 00:10:23,225 --> 00:10:25,144 I had traveled a decent amount in my 278 00:10:25,144 --> 00:10:26,985 life. I'd been really fortunate in that way, 279 00:10:26,985 --> 00:10:28,924 but I did not speak French. 280 00:10:29,304 --> 00:10:29,804 And 281 00:10:30,424 --> 00:10:33,384 I showed up for, you know, a month 282 00:10:33,384 --> 00:10:33,884 and 283 00:10:34,824 --> 00:10:37,164 really had to wrestle with each day. 284 00:10:37,850 --> 00:10:40,330 What do I want to do today? There's 285 00:10:40,330 --> 00:10:42,330 nobody here that I'm traveling with that I 286 00:10:42,330 --> 00:10:43,950 have to make decisions with. 287 00:10:44,410 --> 00:10:47,210 It's not like I'm only here for four 288 00:10:47,210 --> 00:10:48,649 or five days and I need to jam 289 00:10:48,649 --> 00:10:50,490 everything in. I have so much time and 290 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:50,990 spaciousness. 291 00:10:51,804 --> 00:10:53,804 And so that sense of waking up and 292 00:10:53,804 --> 00:10:56,144 saying, what do I feel like doing today? 293 00:10:56,605 --> 00:10:59,024 Maybe I'll go to a museum. 294 00:10:59,804 --> 00:11:02,445 Maybe I will just sit at a cafe 295 00:11:02,445 --> 00:11:04,684 with a glass of rose and just people 296 00:11:04,684 --> 00:11:05,184 watch. 297 00:11:05,789 --> 00:11:07,950 Maybe I will go to a park and 298 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:08,450 read. 299 00:11:08,990 --> 00:11:09,809 But, actually, 300 00:11:10,190 --> 00:11:11,789 it was one of the first times that 301 00:11:11,789 --> 00:11:13,730 I started to get in touch with that 302 00:11:13,789 --> 00:11:16,350 inner knowing or that gut sensation that people 303 00:11:16,350 --> 00:11:17,250 had talked about 304 00:11:18,605 --> 00:11:20,684 and really tuning into that. And I was 305 00:11:20,684 --> 00:11:22,605 like, oh, I can start to hear that 306 00:11:22,605 --> 00:11:25,325 little voice somewhere. It wasn't loud. It was 307 00:11:25,325 --> 00:11:25,825 still 308 00:11:26,445 --> 00:11:28,125 sort of a bit of a whisper at 309 00:11:28,125 --> 00:11:30,860 that point, but I would say over the 310 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:33,279 years from that point in 2017, 311 00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:34,320 it just got 312 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:35,840 louder and louder. 313 00:11:36,299 --> 00:11:39,660 Was that scary that the demands fall away 314 00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:41,679 and there's just this quiet space? 315 00:11:42,059 --> 00:11:44,175 What was that like? I think it was 316 00:11:44,175 --> 00:11:46,115 so many feelings. It was 317 00:11:46,735 --> 00:11:47,235 definitely 318 00:11:47,774 --> 00:11:49,075 enlivening and energizing 319 00:11:49,455 --> 00:11:51,375 to just be like, I can do what 320 00:11:51,375 --> 00:11:53,555 I want. Wow. What a thought. 321 00:11:54,095 --> 00:11:56,115 At the same time, it was really confusing. 322 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,320 I didn't trust myself in some ways. Right? 323 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,899 I would find myself second guessing my decisions. 324 00:12:02,919 --> 00:12:06,519 So I think after letting external approval drive 325 00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:08,120 so much of my decision making in the 326 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,085 past, not having someone there made me say, 327 00:12:11,165 --> 00:12:12,524 okay. I think I wanna do this, but 328 00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:14,365 but is that the right decision? Should I 329 00:12:14,445 --> 00:12:16,365 well well, should I do this instead? Oh, 330 00:12:16,365 --> 00:12:18,365 maybe I can do that tomorrow. And so 331 00:12:18,365 --> 00:12:19,665 I think it was really 332 00:12:20,365 --> 00:12:22,845 this time of, like, testing and trying something. 333 00:12:22,845 --> 00:12:24,365 It's almost like like when a kid little 334 00:12:24,365 --> 00:12:26,070 kid starts to walk for the first time 335 00:12:26,070 --> 00:12:27,929 and they're, like, teetering and they feel 336 00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:30,870 unbalanced. It was like, okay. Like, that kinda 337 00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:33,269 went well. Let's try that again. So it 338 00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:35,909 was a whole mix of emotions, but slowly 339 00:12:35,909 --> 00:12:36,889 started to 340 00:12:37,574 --> 00:12:40,054 step more into the, okay, this feels right, 341 00:12:40,054 --> 00:12:42,054 this feels authentic, and let's move forward from 342 00:12:42,054 --> 00:12:45,115 here. And it sounds like slowly and surely 343 00:12:45,414 --> 00:12:47,115 a recognition of something 344 00:12:47,574 --> 00:12:48,074 trustworthy 345 00:12:48,615 --> 00:12:49,115 emerging. 346 00:12:49,814 --> 00:12:52,529 Yeah. I've been an increasing believer, I would 347 00:12:52,529 --> 00:12:54,210 say, over the past couple of the years 348 00:12:54,210 --> 00:12:56,529 of, you know, the universe giving signs of 349 00:12:56,529 --> 00:12:59,490 things and just different things that have come 350 00:12:59,490 --> 00:13:01,909 up that when I make certain decisions, 351 00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:04,129 it feels like, oh, this feels like it's 352 00:13:04,129 --> 00:13:06,049 the right decision. This feels like it's the 353 00:13:06,049 --> 00:13:06,345 right 354 00:13:07,625 --> 00:13:09,404 path. Also, this sense of 355 00:13:09,784 --> 00:13:10,284 I 356 00:13:10,664 --> 00:13:11,964 overanalyze things. 357 00:13:12,424 --> 00:13:15,064 So for so many years, right, in my 358 00:13:15,064 --> 00:13:18,024 work world, I spent 99.9% 359 00:13:18,024 --> 00:13:20,024 of the time in my head, in my 360 00:13:20,024 --> 00:13:21,804 intellect, analyzing everything. 361 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:23,919 Part of what I did from a personal 362 00:13:23,919 --> 00:13:25,539 development perspective was 363 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:26,980 journal a lot. 364 00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:28,960 And I think there was this moment of 365 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:29,460 realization 366 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,759 when I would read back through my journal 367 00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:32,980 entries of, like, 368 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,259 I am saying 369 00:13:34,804 --> 00:13:35,304 the 370 00:13:35,684 --> 00:13:36,345 same things. 371 00:13:36,804 --> 00:13:38,985 I have been saying the same things 372 00:13:39,524 --> 00:13:40,024 for 373 00:13:40,325 --> 00:13:40,825 years, 374 00:13:41,684 --> 00:13:45,144 and that was true of journaling about my 375 00:13:45,845 --> 00:13:48,804 marriage. That was true about journaling about my 376 00:13:48,804 --> 00:13:49,304 job. 377 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,220 And I started to see patterns 378 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,460 of just a lack of action 379 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,779 around things even though 380 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,100 there was this intellectual, 381 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,379 emotional knowing that something needed to change. 382 00:14:03,134 --> 00:14:04,894 And so I think as I started to 383 00:14:04,894 --> 00:14:06,815 make some changes, probably the first one with 384 00:14:06,815 --> 00:14:09,695 my divorce, the second with moving cross country, 385 00:14:09,695 --> 00:14:11,215 and then, you know, the third and most 386 00:14:11,215 --> 00:14:13,615 recent one of leaving my job, I've just 387 00:14:13,615 --> 00:14:16,175 started to tap into that trusting a little 388 00:14:16,175 --> 00:14:17,955 bit faster over time 389 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:20,879 Because I see that when I make these 390 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:23,839 decisions that feel aligned with what I want 391 00:14:23,839 --> 00:14:26,399 and I believe is right for me, that 392 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,639 on the other side, I haven't regretted one 393 00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:29,539 of those decisions. 394 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,159 And I think that fear of regret is 395 00:14:32,159 --> 00:14:33,940 probably the number one thing 396 00:14:34,544 --> 00:14:35,044 that 397 00:14:35,585 --> 00:14:37,825 slowed down the decision making or held me 398 00:14:37,825 --> 00:14:39,825 back for so long. I was so afraid 399 00:14:39,825 --> 00:14:41,125 of regretting things. 400 00:14:41,585 --> 00:14:43,424 I love the way you speak about that, 401 00:14:43,424 --> 00:14:43,924 especially 402 00:14:44,304 --> 00:14:45,044 the journaling. 403 00:14:45,745 --> 00:14:47,504 When you look back, when you take the 404 00:14:47,504 --> 00:14:48,804 time and reflect, 405 00:14:49,539 --> 00:14:52,100 oh my gosh, it's right there. And it's 406 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:52,600 clear. 407 00:14:53,460 --> 00:14:54,919 It's been there all along, 408 00:14:55,539 --> 00:14:57,000 both in some of the patterns, 409 00:14:57,700 --> 00:14:58,840 not taking action, 410 00:14:59,539 --> 00:15:00,279 but also 411 00:15:01,299 --> 00:15:02,440 something more. 412 00:15:03,134 --> 00:15:05,855 Yeah. Yeah. It becomes super clear and you've 413 00:15:05,855 --> 00:15:08,014 got this, like, timeline of, like, okay. I 414 00:15:08,014 --> 00:15:09,855 can look back when I first started writing 415 00:15:09,855 --> 00:15:12,095 these things down, and it's not been weeks. 416 00:15:12,095 --> 00:15:14,195 It's not been months. It has been years 417 00:15:14,254 --> 00:15:16,195 of thinking this and feeling it. 418 00:15:16,709 --> 00:15:18,149 And I think coming back to what we 419 00:15:18,149 --> 00:15:19,990 were talking about earlier, part of what makes 420 00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:20,970 it so hard 421 00:15:21,309 --> 00:15:21,809 to 422 00:15:22,149 --> 00:15:23,769 make those decisions is 423 00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:26,230 whether it was my marriage or whether it 424 00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:26,730 was 425 00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:29,110 my job or whether it was my life 426 00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:31,449 in Chicago, none of these were bad, 427 00:15:31,894 --> 00:15:34,154 terrible, awful things. Right? 428 00:15:34,615 --> 00:15:36,794 It was just the sense of, 429 00:15:37,095 --> 00:15:38,475 I think there's something 430 00:15:39,415 --> 00:15:42,794 greater and more aligned for me right now. 431 00:15:43,495 --> 00:15:45,254 And not in a way that's, like, overly 432 00:15:45,254 --> 00:15:47,289 chasing something better and better and the grass 433 00:15:47,289 --> 00:15:48,970 is always greener, but just the sense of 434 00:15:48,970 --> 00:15:49,470 knowing 435 00:15:49,850 --> 00:15:51,929 that this is not it for me and 436 00:15:51,929 --> 00:15:53,070 there's something else. 437 00:15:53,690 --> 00:15:56,330 But choosing what that something else is when 438 00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:59,129 you're not totally sure what you're choosing between 439 00:15:59,129 --> 00:16:00,750 felt incredibly hard. 440 00:16:01,065 --> 00:16:04,264 It felt like giving up something that was 441 00:16:04,264 --> 00:16:06,285 good or pretty good for something 442 00:16:06,825 --> 00:16:07,884 that could be great, 443 00:16:08,504 --> 00:16:10,924 but was totally unknown and uncertain. 444 00:16:11,625 --> 00:16:13,245 That could be a harder decision 445 00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:16,389 because you're not forced. You actually have to 446 00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:16,889 say, 447 00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:20,250 I really trust this quiet voice. 448 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:21,610 Yeah. 449 00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:22,889 It was 450 00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:24,809 so hard. And 451 00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:27,684 I think I didn't have that full self 452 00:16:27,684 --> 00:16:29,044 trust. And I would say, you know, to 453 00:16:29,044 --> 00:16:31,044 be honest, I'm still growing and developing that. 454 00:16:31,044 --> 00:16:32,024 A lot of the 455 00:16:32,884 --> 00:16:34,105 tools and practices 456 00:16:34,565 --> 00:16:36,664 that we've learned at the process 457 00:16:37,044 --> 00:16:38,725 are some of these things that have really 458 00:16:38,725 --> 00:16:39,625 helped me. 459 00:16:39,970 --> 00:16:43,190 And now having almost, like, demonstrated proof points 460 00:16:43,330 --> 00:16:45,409 and, you know, I look back and see 461 00:16:45,409 --> 00:16:47,409 results of, like, okay. When I've made these 462 00:16:47,409 --> 00:16:47,909 changes, 463 00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:50,049 look at what it's done for my life 464 00:16:50,049 --> 00:16:51,970 and look at how I feel now. Okay. 465 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:53,965 Now I have a little bit of a 466 00:16:53,965 --> 00:16:57,004 stronger trust muscle to make choices from this 467 00:16:57,004 --> 00:16:57,904 place now. 468 00:16:58,365 --> 00:17:00,285 You know, one of the things that stuck 469 00:17:00,285 --> 00:17:00,845 with me 470 00:17:01,404 --> 00:17:03,184 I think we learned it at the process, 471 00:17:03,245 --> 00:17:04,924 but it probably didn't stick with me until 472 00:17:04,924 --> 00:17:06,445 I heard it again for the q from 473 00:17:06,445 --> 00:17:07,650 the q two, which is why it was 474 00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:09,490 so powerful to do both, but was this 475 00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:09,990 concept 476 00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:14,789 of moving from do, have, be to 477 00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:16,869 be, do, have. 478 00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:18,769 And so what that was like was, like, 479 00:17:18,769 --> 00:17:20,204 in the past, it was like, okay. Let 480 00:17:20,204 --> 00:17:21,884 me do everything I need to do. Like, 481 00:17:21,884 --> 00:17:23,484 let me work super hard. Let me get 482 00:17:23,484 --> 00:17:25,085 the good grades. Let me get the good 483 00:17:25,085 --> 00:17:27,484 job. Let me get the husband, all the 484 00:17:27,484 --> 00:17:29,484 things so that I can, you know, have 485 00:17:29,484 --> 00:17:31,724 the big title, have the money, have the 486 00:17:31,724 --> 00:17:32,224 recognition, 487 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,039 have societal approval, whatever, and then I can 488 00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:36,859 be happy. 489 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,299 And I wasn't 490 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,000 at least not as happy as I thought 491 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,240 I could or deserved to be. And there 492 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,285 was always something to keep chasing. Right? There's 493 00:17:45,365 --> 00:17:47,205 there's always the next promotion. I got promoted 494 00:17:47,205 --> 00:17:49,285 to partner, and somebody was talking to me 495 00:17:49,285 --> 00:17:50,805 about how happy I should be. And I 496 00:17:50,805 --> 00:17:52,484 was like, well, there's still another promotion to 497 00:17:52,484 --> 00:17:55,224 senior partner. Like, it was just never enough. 498 00:17:55,924 --> 00:17:58,424 And so this concept now of 499 00:17:59,509 --> 00:18:01,130 moving from a place of 500 00:18:01,509 --> 00:18:03,429 what are the qualities of being of my 501 00:18:03,429 --> 00:18:04,569 spiritual self 502 00:18:05,269 --> 00:18:07,210 and doing from that place, 503 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:11,029 I'm trusting that I will have whatever is 504 00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:12,869 meant for me on the other side of 505 00:18:12,869 --> 00:18:13,214 that. 506 00:18:13,694 --> 00:18:16,654 And so what that looks like nowadays is, 507 00:18:16,654 --> 00:18:17,154 like, 508 00:18:17,534 --> 00:18:19,855 not having a lot of certainty or clarity 509 00:18:19,855 --> 00:18:21,934 about what the future is going to hold 510 00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:22,434 and 511 00:18:23,694 --> 00:18:25,855 still getting comfortable with that if I'm being 512 00:18:25,855 --> 00:18:29,640 honest, but trusting that when I do operate 513 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,420 from this place of being that 514 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:35,160 it has only resulted in positive things in 515 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:35,819 my life. 516 00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:38,619 The trusting and the not knowing 517 00:18:39,644 --> 00:18:42,285 it's a bit of having to release the 518 00:18:42,285 --> 00:18:42,785 control. 519 00:18:43,725 --> 00:18:46,924 Oh, for sure. That control is one of 520 00:18:46,924 --> 00:18:48,845 my biggest patterns or, like, the need for 521 00:18:48,845 --> 00:18:51,424 control, the need for certainty. And I think 522 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,200 in the past, I had associated control with 523 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:54,700 safety. 524 00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:56,759 I was like, well, I have to be 525 00:18:56,759 --> 00:18:58,599 safe. And in order to be safe, I 526 00:18:58,599 --> 00:18:59,980 have to control the situation. 527 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:01,660 And 528 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:03,500 the concept of surrender 529 00:19:04,484 --> 00:19:05,625 and how it's not, 530 00:19:06,244 --> 00:19:08,085 oh, I'm just gonna be super passive and 531 00:19:08,085 --> 00:19:10,244 let things happen to me. But I think 532 00:19:10,244 --> 00:19:13,204 learning to lean into that, to say, I'm 533 00:19:13,204 --> 00:19:16,339 still making active choices in my life, but 534 00:19:16,339 --> 00:19:18,900 I'm letting go of the need for certainty 535 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:20,680 on what happens on the other side. 536 00:19:21,059 --> 00:19:21,559 Yeah. 537 00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:23,080 Beautifully said. 538 00:19:23,539 --> 00:19:26,200 As long as things are predictable, I'm okay. 539 00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:29,000 So long as things are x y z, 540 00:19:29,634 --> 00:19:30,694 I'll be okay. 541 00:19:31,234 --> 00:19:32,615 You shifted that too, 542 00:19:33,075 --> 00:19:35,255 is I will be okay. Come what may. 543 00:19:35,954 --> 00:19:38,835 And when you said if I what's authentic 544 00:19:38,835 --> 00:19:40,214 to my spiritual self, 545 00:19:40,515 --> 00:19:41,974 is that that quiet 546 00:19:42,275 --> 00:19:42,775 voice, 547 00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:45,970 Is that how you feel your spiritual self 548 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:47,910 or hear your spiritual self? 549 00:19:48,529 --> 00:19:49,029 Yeah. 550 00:19:49,330 --> 00:19:52,230 I think that is now and the quadrinity 551 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:55,410 check ins that we do through Hoffman are 552 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:57,910 one of the practices that I've leaned into 553 00:19:58,049 --> 00:19:59,914 the most so that I can actually get 554 00:19:59,914 --> 00:20:02,555 in touch with what that inner voice is. 555 00:20:02,555 --> 00:20:03,295 And so, 556 00:20:03,674 --> 00:20:05,434 you know, when I was referencing earlier, the 557 00:20:05,434 --> 00:20:07,115 lack of an inner voice or that gut 558 00:20:07,115 --> 00:20:09,775 feeling, I associate that now with my spiritual 559 00:20:09,835 --> 00:20:12,490 self. And I think getting to know my 560 00:20:12,490 --> 00:20:15,769 spiritual self, getting to know my emotional self, 561 00:20:15,769 --> 00:20:17,690 getting in touch with my body and just, 562 00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:19,549 like, what I'm feeling physically 563 00:20:20,410 --> 00:20:23,210 is all still relatively new to me because 564 00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:25,470 I operated so much from my intellect. 565 00:20:25,769 --> 00:20:26,509 And frankly, 566 00:20:27,375 --> 00:20:28,894 it wasn't even as much from my intellect 567 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,994 as it was operating from my patterns. 568 00:20:31,775 --> 00:20:34,255 It was like I had just associated those 569 00:20:34,255 --> 00:20:35,714 to be one in the same. 570 00:20:36,255 --> 00:20:38,974 And so learning to trust myself is stepping 571 00:20:38,974 --> 00:20:40,355 into and saying, okay. 572 00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:42,829 Let me just get really quiet. Let me 573 00:20:42,829 --> 00:20:44,769 pause and sort of see what emerges 574 00:20:45,150 --> 00:20:46,369 through those reflections 575 00:20:46,750 --> 00:20:49,409 and say, you know, from this place of 576 00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:50,450 authenticity, 577 00:20:51,230 --> 00:20:51,730 presence, 578 00:20:52,349 --> 00:20:52,849 warmth, 579 00:20:53,630 --> 00:20:54,130 vibrancy, 580 00:20:54,984 --> 00:20:57,304 these qualities that I've started to identify what 581 00:20:57,304 --> 00:20:59,865 feels truly right to me, when I make 582 00:20:59,865 --> 00:21:03,164 choices from that place, I trust them more. 583 00:21:03,304 --> 00:21:04,365 In your process, 584 00:21:05,224 --> 00:21:07,784 take us to a moment there that felt 585 00:21:07,784 --> 00:21:09,944 like a shift or a turning point for 586 00:21:09,944 --> 00:21:10,444 you. 587 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,360 There's a few. One that I think is 588 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:13,980 just sort of funny to start. 589 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,940 On day one, when I showed up, 590 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,400 I was like, I'm super excited. I'm into 591 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,039 all this personal and professional growth stuff. Let's 592 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:23,100 let's do this. 593 00:21:24,325 --> 00:21:26,024 And during one of the visualizations 594 00:21:26,644 --> 00:21:28,424 that we did, I fell asleep. 595 00:21:28,964 --> 00:21:29,464 And 596 00:21:30,244 --> 00:21:31,924 coming out of that, when I realized I 597 00:21:31,924 --> 00:21:33,065 had fallen asleep, 598 00:21:33,605 --> 00:21:34,825 I started bawling. 599 00:21:35,365 --> 00:21:37,625 I was so upset. 600 00:21:38,140 --> 00:21:40,000 I went and spoke with my teacher, 601 00:21:40,859 --> 00:21:42,319 Kevin, who is wonderful. 602 00:21:43,179 --> 00:21:44,859 And I was like, I've already failed the 603 00:21:44,859 --> 00:21:45,359 process. 604 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:47,740 You know, it's day one, and I've already 605 00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:49,500 failed. Right? And so you can imagine all 606 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:51,500 of the patterns that that that came up, 607 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:53,684 but I did not feel the process. 608 00:21:54,625 --> 00:21:56,464 And, you know, I think one of the 609 00:21:56,464 --> 00:21:59,524 biggest moments or impacts actually 610 00:22:00,224 --> 00:22:03,264 started in the process and then completed in 611 00:22:03,264 --> 00:22:05,139 q two, which actually you were a big 612 00:22:05,139 --> 00:22:06,244 part of it. So 613 00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:09,230 during the process, I really got in touch 614 00:22:09,230 --> 00:22:11,890 with the amount of self vindictiveness 615 00:22:12,509 --> 00:22:14,369 that I had towards myself, 616 00:22:15,309 --> 00:22:17,490 the shame that I felt, and 617 00:22:18,349 --> 00:22:20,690 how hard I was speaking to myself. 618 00:22:21,474 --> 00:22:23,714 It's pretty horrible when I reflect back and 619 00:22:23,714 --> 00:22:25,315 think about the things that I said to 620 00:22:25,315 --> 00:22:25,815 myself 621 00:22:27,234 --> 00:22:29,254 and how easy it was to do it. 622 00:22:29,474 --> 00:22:31,394 I was reflecting on it, and it was 623 00:22:31,394 --> 00:22:33,875 like, it's as easy for me to say 624 00:22:33,875 --> 00:22:35,394 these things as it is to say that 625 00:22:35,394 --> 00:22:38,000 I have brown hair. They just felt like 626 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,299 statement of fact. 627 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,099 It was things like, 628 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:43,539 you're selfish. 629 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,000 No wonder you got divorced. You would have 630 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,220 been a horrible mother. 631 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,700 You'll never be good enough. 632 00:22:50,414 --> 00:22:52,735 All of these things that just, you know, 633 00:22:52,735 --> 00:22:54,414 playing them back, it's like, oh my god. 634 00:22:54,414 --> 00:22:55,934 Like, how could I talk to myself that 635 00:22:55,934 --> 00:22:58,115 way? And yet it felt so natural. 636 00:22:59,215 --> 00:23:01,455 I did some work during the process on 637 00:23:01,455 --> 00:23:03,154 self compassion and forgiveness, 638 00:23:03,455 --> 00:23:05,455 but I can't say that I left the 639 00:23:05,455 --> 00:23:05,955 process 640 00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:07,210 totally 641 00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:10,710 having forgiven myself or gone through the healing 642 00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:11,849 from that space. 643 00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:15,269 And so in the q two, I had 644 00:23:15,269 --> 00:23:15,769 this 645 00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:16,890 profound 646 00:23:17,589 --> 00:23:18,089 experience 647 00:23:19,585 --> 00:23:22,005 of self forgiveness and self compassion, and 648 00:23:22,865 --> 00:23:24,625 it makes me emotional even thinking about it 649 00:23:24,625 --> 00:23:25,265 right now. 650 00:23:28,065 --> 00:23:29,365 But I literally, 651 00:23:30,545 --> 00:23:33,684 in that moment, felt a physical weight 652 00:23:33,985 --> 00:23:35,400 coming off of me. 653 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,680 I realized at that moment that I had 654 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:39,339 a choice 655 00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:42,440 at that point forward whether I wanted to 656 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,539 put that weight back on 657 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,940 or whether I wanted to let it go. 658 00:23:48,795 --> 00:23:51,035 The combination of the process and the q 659 00:23:51,035 --> 00:23:53,775 two and the healing that I have done 660 00:23:53,835 --> 00:23:55,835 and the self compassion that I can now 661 00:23:55,835 --> 00:23:56,575 give myself 662 00:23:57,434 --> 00:23:58,174 has been 663 00:23:58,555 --> 00:24:00,235 just one of the greatest gifts that I 664 00:24:00,235 --> 00:24:01,375 could have ever had. 665 00:24:02,009 --> 00:24:04,170 That is such an important part of self 666 00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:04,670 compassion 667 00:24:05,130 --> 00:24:06,269 is letting yourself 668 00:24:06,650 --> 00:24:07,150 feel 669 00:24:07,769 --> 00:24:10,250 the hurt of how horrible it's been in 670 00:24:10,250 --> 00:24:10,750 there. 671 00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:14,349 And for you to see that 672 00:24:15,214 --> 00:24:16,115 and to recognize 673 00:24:16,734 --> 00:24:18,815 this doesn't give me more reason to beat 674 00:24:18,815 --> 00:24:21,714 myself up, this actually becomes a choice. 675 00:24:23,134 --> 00:24:24,275 I can be here 676 00:24:24,974 --> 00:24:25,954 or I can 677 00:24:26,335 --> 00:24:27,875 put this weight back on. 678 00:24:28,529 --> 00:24:30,850 I know some things changed for you after 679 00:24:30,850 --> 00:24:32,529 the q two. Will you share a bit 680 00:24:32,529 --> 00:24:33,509 more about that? 681 00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:34,630 Yeah. 682 00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:37,029 I came into the q two 683 00:24:37,570 --> 00:24:39,029 really focused on 684 00:24:39,650 --> 00:24:41,809 what did I need to move forward and 685 00:24:41,809 --> 00:24:42,630 step into 686 00:24:43,875 --> 00:24:45,795 what I feel like now is part of 687 00:24:45,795 --> 00:24:47,634 my purpose and part of my calling in 688 00:24:47,634 --> 00:24:48,134 life. 689 00:24:48,674 --> 00:24:50,214 And that's really to 690 00:24:50,595 --> 00:24:53,474 support other people who are going through what 691 00:24:53,474 --> 00:24:55,174 I went through through divorce. 692 00:24:55,634 --> 00:24:56,134 And 693 00:24:56,434 --> 00:24:59,329 I had been thinking about doing something in 694 00:24:59,329 --> 00:25:00,630 this space for 695 00:25:01,009 --> 00:25:01,669 a while, 696 00:25:02,210 --> 00:25:03,190 but it felt 697 00:25:03,809 --> 00:25:05,890 really foreign to me. I was like, I 698 00:25:05,890 --> 00:25:07,730 am not a therapist. I am not a 699 00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:10,049 divorce lawyer. Like, what is my role in 700 00:25:10,049 --> 00:25:12,105 this? What what can I possibly have to 701 00:25:12,105 --> 00:25:13,964 offer in this space other than 702 00:25:14,424 --> 00:25:15,724 my own story? 703 00:25:16,424 --> 00:25:18,845 As I thought about it, I realized what 704 00:25:19,144 --> 00:25:20,904 I really needed at the time when I 705 00:25:20,904 --> 00:25:23,484 was going through divorce at 33 was hearing 706 00:25:24,184 --> 00:25:26,444 more stories of people like me who 707 00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:28,669 were going through that experience 708 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:31,450 so that I wouldn't feel so alone, so 709 00:25:31,450 --> 00:25:33,690 ashamed, and have all of these, you know, 710 00:25:33,690 --> 00:25:35,710 horrible things that I just said about myself. 711 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:38,890 And I had the idea to start a 712 00:25:38,890 --> 00:25:41,069 podcast to share some of these stories. 713 00:25:41,924 --> 00:25:43,784 The idea came for this over 714 00:25:44,325 --> 00:25:46,164 a year ago, maybe two years ago, and 715 00:25:46,164 --> 00:25:48,484 I just hadn't done anything with it. And 716 00:25:48,484 --> 00:25:50,325 so I came in the q two really 717 00:25:50,325 --> 00:25:52,085 wanting to say, what is the thing that 718 00:25:52,085 --> 00:25:54,085 I'm gonna need to do to move forward 719 00:25:54,085 --> 00:25:54,825 and actually 720 00:25:55,399 --> 00:25:56,859 put this into the world? 721 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,500 And so I'm excited to say that 722 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,740 that podcast launched yesterday. 723 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,059 So the timing here is really because 724 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,859 I've now 725 00:26:09,404 --> 00:26:11,265 recorded, I think, 10 726 00:26:11,565 --> 00:26:12,065 episodes. 727 00:26:12,684 --> 00:26:13,184 And 728 00:26:13,644 --> 00:26:15,884 I'm sitting across from these people that are 729 00:26:15,884 --> 00:26:18,445 sharing their stories in a really raw and 730 00:26:18,445 --> 00:26:19,505 vulnerable way. 731 00:26:20,045 --> 00:26:22,625 And I'm talking to experts in the space 732 00:26:22,684 --> 00:26:24,169 that are giving 733 00:26:24,629 --> 00:26:26,730 answers to questions that I had 734 00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:29,029 ten years ago when I was going through 735 00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:31,990 this process and, frankly, answers to questions that 736 00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:34,409 I still have now as I continue to 737 00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:35,690 improve myself. 738 00:26:36,644 --> 00:26:38,644 A Q two was really the catalyst for 739 00:26:38,644 --> 00:26:39,865 me moving from 740 00:26:40,484 --> 00:26:43,545 thinking and planning and journaling into 741 00:26:44,404 --> 00:26:46,805 action and doing the thing that I said 742 00:26:46,805 --> 00:26:48,664 that I wanted to do for so long. 743 00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:51,309 In a word, did you think self forgiveness 744 00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:52,670 was 745 00:26:53,049 --> 00:26:54,029 part of that? 746 00:26:54,330 --> 00:26:55,690 I don't think it was part of it. 747 00:26:55,690 --> 00:26:56,910 I think it was everything. 748 00:26:58,090 --> 00:27:00,330 I think it was the thing that I 749 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:02,190 needed to be able to do this 750 00:27:02,984 --> 00:27:06,125 because I didn't feel like I could 751 00:27:06,744 --> 00:27:10,505 interview people, sit across from people, and hold 752 00:27:10,505 --> 00:27:11,884 space for these conversations 753 00:27:12,505 --> 00:27:14,684 until I had really forgiven myself. 754 00:27:15,580 --> 00:27:18,480 As you say that, it feels really 755 00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:19,680 genuine. 756 00:27:20,619 --> 00:27:22,320 And you're building a community. 757 00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:23,840 You are offering 758 00:27:24,299 --> 00:27:27,019 people who are having an experience that can 759 00:27:27,019 --> 00:27:28,000 be so isolating 760 00:27:29,019 --> 00:27:30,799 a sense of you are not alone. 761 00:27:32,085 --> 00:27:32,585 Yeah. 762 00:27:33,045 --> 00:27:35,704 It boggles my mind that for something 763 00:27:36,005 --> 00:27:36,825 that impacts 764 00:27:37,444 --> 00:27:39,525 forty to fifty percent of people that get 765 00:27:39,525 --> 00:27:42,884 married, that the experience feels so lonely. Like, 766 00:27:42,884 --> 00:27:45,125 it's just there's such a disconnect for me 767 00:27:45,125 --> 00:27:45,569 there. 768 00:27:46,210 --> 00:27:47,809 I still don't know. This is part of 769 00:27:47,809 --> 00:27:49,589 that be, do, have, 770 00:27:50,369 --> 00:27:52,470 but the being is 771 00:27:53,169 --> 00:27:54,309 being authentic 772 00:27:54,609 --> 00:27:55,349 and courageous 773 00:27:56,049 --> 00:27:56,549 and 774 00:27:57,649 --> 00:27:58,710 brave to 775 00:27:59,054 --> 00:28:01,534 try and create this space, even though I 776 00:28:01,534 --> 00:28:04,974 have no background in podcast hosting or content 777 00:28:04,974 --> 00:28:06,754 creation or anything like that. 778 00:28:07,214 --> 00:28:10,174 But to do the work that feels aligned 779 00:28:10,174 --> 00:28:12,654 to hold space for these individuals to share 780 00:28:12,654 --> 00:28:14,339 their stories and then just trust 781 00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:17,539 that it will connect with people and that 782 00:28:17,539 --> 00:28:19,079 it will be a useful resource. 783 00:28:20,099 --> 00:28:22,179 And that, as you said, that there'll be 784 00:28:22,179 --> 00:28:24,259 a community that gets created so that we 785 00:28:24,259 --> 00:28:26,259 can support each other through this because we 786 00:28:26,259 --> 00:28:27,960 shouldn't have to do this alone. 787 00:28:28,545 --> 00:28:31,505 How happy are you in doing that and 788 00:28:31,505 --> 00:28:32,485 taking that risk? 789 00:28:32,945 --> 00:28:34,404 It feels really scary, 790 00:28:34,705 --> 00:28:35,765 but also 791 00:28:36,625 --> 00:28:38,305 I have never felt more fulfilled in my 792 00:28:38,305 --> 00:28:39,125 entire life. 793 00:28:39,744 --> 00:28:41,605 I'm curious, your consulting 794 00:28:42,305 --> 00:28:42,805 background 795 00:28:43,829 --> 00:28:45,130 is part of your 796 00:28:45,589 --> 00:28:46,650 skill there 797 00:28:47,109 --> 00:28:47,609 recognizing 798 00:28:48,069 --> 00:28:48,569 patterns 799 00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:51,829 because the way you described looking at your 800 00:28:51,829 --> 00:28:53,829 journals and you're like, there's that pattern of 801 00:28:53,829 --> 00:28:54,329 inaction. 802 00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:56,809 There's that whisper of spirit. 803 00:28:57,554 --> 00:28:59,654 And then the patterns around 804 00:29:00,034 --> 00:29:02,274 people in divorce feeling alone, but look how 805 00:29:02,274 --> 00:29:03,974 many of us there are 806 00:29:05,315 --> 00:29:07,634 also sounds like in some ways it's really 807 00:29:07,634 --> 00:29:09,234 been there for you in a, in a 808 00:29:09,234 --> 00:29:10,214 wonderful way. 809 00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:12,470 Yeah. There's this 810 00:29:13,009 --> 00:29:15,029 Steve Jobs quote that is 811 00:29:15,330 --> 00:29:17,890 you can't connect the dots looking forward. You 812 00:29:17,890 --> 00:29:20,070 can only connect the dots looking backwards. 813 00:29:21,170 --> 00:29:24,210 What I'm learning is that everything in my 814 00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:26,150 life has led me to this point, 815 00:29:26,615 --> 00:29:29,015 the good, the bad, and having compassion for 816 00:29:29,015 --> 00:29:30,394 all the pieces in between, 817 00:29:31,575 --> 00:29:33,035 but feeling like 818 00:29:33,335 --> 00:29:35,095 it's all sort of coming together in a 819 00:29:35,095 --> 00:29:37,575 way that really fits. So I do bring 820 00:29:37,575 --> 00:29:38,555 a lot of 821 00:29:39,170 --> 00:29:40,470 strategic thinking, 822 00:29:40,849 --> 00:29:41,349 analysis. 823 00:29:42,210 --> 00:29:44,529 I'm a self proclaimed data nerd. Like so 824 00:29:44,529 --> 00:29:45,809 I'm like, I've done a lot of work 825 00:29:45,809 --> 00:29:47,990 on understanding divorce statistics. Right? 826 00:29:48,450 --> 00:29:50,049 And so I bring a lot of that 827 00:29:50,049 --> 00:29:52,230 into the work that I do. And then 828 00:29:52,825 --> 00:29:53,325 because 829 00:29:53,785 --> 00:29:55,865 right now, I'm I'm in the being and 830 00:29:55,865 --> 00:29:57,305 the doing and not the having. I'm not, 831 00:29:57,305 --> 00:29:59,545 like, generating income from this podcast right now. 832 00:29:59,545 --> 00:30:01,945 So I do have another role that I 833 00:30:01,945 --> 00:30:03,465 play, which is I do work as an 834 00:30:03,465 --> 00:30:04,445 executive coach. 835 00:30:04,869 --> 00:30:07,369 And so the executive coach training and certification 836 00:30:07,429 --> 00:30:09,349 that I did also really helped me in 837 00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:10,569 this space because 838 00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:13,289 it trains you how to ask powerful questions 839 00:30:13,589 --> 00:30:15,909 and how to hold space for emotions without 840 00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:18,164 needing to fix it, to not come in 841 00:30:18,164 --> 00:30:20,424 and save somebody else. And so, 842 00:30:20,804 --> 00:30:22,884 again, it just sort of feels like all 843 00:30:22,884 --> 00:30:26,244 these different things I've used professionally in the 844 00:30:26,244 --> 00:30:29,144 past and still currently are, you know, hopefully 845 00:30:29,204 --> 00:30:32,640 serving me well to live into this new 846 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,580 mission and sense of purpose that I have. 847 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:37,460 Yeah. And I can also really see how 848 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,220 self forgiveness 849 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,859 lets me put this in the past. 850 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:43,380 Yeah. 851 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,565 You know, as I think about the relationship 852 00:30:45,565 --> 00:30:47,085 that I have with my parents, I had 853 00:30:47,085 --> 00:30:49,585 a conversation with them really recently 854 00:30:49,965 --> 00:30:52,605 about this podcast and putting myself out there 855 00:30:52,605 --> 00:30:53,744 in a public way. 856 00:30:54,125 --> 00:30:55,585 And it's not just about 857 00:30:56,125 --> 00:30:58,705 forgiving the past, but it's also saying, 858 00:30:59,164 --> 00:30:59,904 I can't 859 00:31:00,299 --> 00:31:02,940 live my life afraid of making mistakes in 860 00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:04,320 the future or 861 00:31:05,019 --> 00:31:05,519 afraid 862 00:31:06,299 --> 00:31:07,759 of doing the wrong thing. 863 00:31:08,299 --> 00:31:09,680 What I need to trust 864 00:31:10,059 --> 00:31:11,920 beyond myself is to trust 865 00:31:12,554 --> 00:31:15,194 the relationships that I've built with the people 866 00:31:15,194 --> 00:31:17,755 that are important to me. And knowing that 867 00:31:17,755 --> 00:31:20,255 if I do say something on the podcast 868 00:31:20,394 --> 00:31:21,774 that's gonna hurt family 869 00:31:22,154 --> 00:31:24,394 or rub someone the wrong way, that I 870 00:31:24,394 --> 00:31:26,634 have trust in the relationships that we have, 871 00:31:26,634 --> 00:31:28,779 that we can repair that on the other 872 00:31:29,159 --> 00:31:32,359 side. I'm just profoundly grateful for the trust 873 00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:33,880 that I have in myself and the trust 874 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,480 that I have in the relationships with the 875 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,339 people that are important to me now. 876 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,419 It sounds like a wonderful 877 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,214 thing to acknowledge that you have, and real 878 00:31:43,214 --> 00:31:45,554 strength and resilience could come from it. 879 00:31:45,934 --> 00:31:47,315 Yeah. I feel like with 880 00:31:47,775 --> 00:31:49,855 the love and support of my family and 881 00:31:49,855 --> 00:31:52,494 my friends and the space that I'm operating 882 00:31:52,494 --> 00:31:55,234 in, like, the possibilities are sort of limitless. 883 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,440 And so I don't need to have everything 884 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,080 totally planned out. I can sort of let 885 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:01,980 things unfold 886 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,059 that may be 887 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,440 even more beautiful than what I could have 888 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:06,940 planned. 889 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,700 I am so grateful 890 00:32:09,095 --> 00:32:11,095 that you joined me today, that we're having 891 00:32:11,095 --> 00:32:11,835 this conversation. 892 00:32:12,295 --> 00:32:14,934 I look forward to hearing and continuing to 893 00:32:14,934 --> 00:32:17,174 know you. Thank you for having me, Sadie. 894 00:32:17,174 --> 00:32:18,315 Thank you for the conversation. 895 00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:32,109 Thank you for listening to the Hoffman podcast. 896 00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:34,650 My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO 897 00:32:34,650 --> 00:32:37,450 of the Hoffman Institute Foundation and a Hoffman 898 00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:40,305 teacher. Our mission is to provide greater access 899 00:32:40,305 --> 00:32:42,625 to the wisdom and power of love within 900 00:32:42,625 --> 00:32:43,125 ourselves, 901 00:32:43,424 --> 00:32:44,404 in our relationships, 902 00:32:44,865 --> 00:32:45,845 and in the world. 903 00:32:46,144 --> 00:32:48,484 To learn more or to support our mission, 904 00:32:48,545 --> 00:32:51,690 we invite you to visit hoffmaninstitute.org.