1 00:00:01,199 --> 00:00:04,000 One of the most invaluable things for me 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,819 about having gone is being known. 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,359 When I talk to patients about my experience 4 00:00:09,359 --> 00:00:11,919 at Hoffman, I talk about how there is 5 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:14,255 nobody on earth who knows the good and 6 00:00:14,255 --> 00:00:15,615 the bad and the ugly of me, as 7 00:00:15,615 --> 00:00:17,155 well as the teachers. 8 00:00:18,655 --> 00:00:21,614 Hello, and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a 9 00:00:21,614 --> 00:00:24,355 podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. 10 00:00:24,574 --> 00:00:26,494 My name is Sadie Hanna, and in this 11 00:00:26,494 --> 00:00:30,189 podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with 12 00:00:30,189 --> 00:00:30,689 graduates 13 00:00:30,989 --> 00:00:33,710 about their courageous journey inward and how their 14 00:00:33,710 --> 00:00:36,429 love and light are living in the world 15 00:00:36,429 --> 00:00:39,629 around them. Love's everyday radius. Thank you for 16 00:00:39,629 --> 00:00:40,770 being here and welcome. 17 00:00:41,545 --> 00:00:43,625 Before we get started, I'd like to mention 18 00:00:43,625 --> 00:00:46,905 that this episode mentions death of a child 19 00:00:46,905 --> 00:00:47,405 and 20 00:00:47,864 --> 00:00:48,364 suicide. 21 00:00:49,144 --> 00:00:50,445 Please use your discretion. 22 00:00:50,984 --> 00:00:52,844 If you or someone you know is suicidal, 23 00:00:52,984 --> 00:00:55,804 please reach out to the National Suicide Prevention 24 00:00:55,945 --> 00:00:56,445 Lifeline 25 00:00:57,109 --> 00:00:59,850 at 80273 26 00:01:01,270 --> 00:01:02,149 (800) 27 00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:04,890 273-8255, 28 00:01:05,189 --> 00:01:07,530 or message the crisis text line 29 00:01:07,829 --> 00:01:11,495 at 741741. 30 00:01:19,954 --> 00:01:22,915 Hey everyone, and welcome. I'm here with Keri 31 00:01:22,915 --> 00:01:26,010 Levine today. Keri is a Hoffman Process graduate. 32 00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:28,990 She's also a return guest to the podcast. 33 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:31,709 You may remember her from our medical panel. 34 00:01:32,250 --> 00:01:34,670 Carrie, I first heard of you when you 35 00:01:34,730 --> 00:01:37,130 came to my attention from your teacher who 36 00:01:37,130 --> 00:01:39,209 was like, this woman is deep and you 37 00:01:39,209 --> 00:01:40,670 need to talk to her. 38 00:01:43,314 --> 00:01:45,094 And then in our 39 00:01:45,394 --> 00:01:47,575 preparation for that medical panel, 40 00:01:48,274 --> 00:01:50,694 I truly fell in love with this wisdom 41 00:01:50,754 --> 00:01:52,674 that is within you. And I wanted to 42 00:01:52,674 --> 00:01:54,515 hear more about your story. So thank you 43 00:01:54,515 --> 00:01:55,349 for coming back 44 00:01:56,229 --> 00:01:58,250 to share. Thank you for the invitation 45 00:01:58,629 --> 00:01:59,450 to share. 46 00:01:59,750 --> 00:02:02,709 Yeah. So really, this is a place where 47 00:02:02,709 --> 00:02:04,170 we can begin anywhere, 48 00:02:04,469 --> 00:02:07,369 but the idea is like, tell 49 00:02:07,829 --> 00:02:09,610 the listeners a bit about 50 00:02:09,989 --> 00:02:10,969 who you are. 51 00:02:11,485 --> 00:02:13,884 I often start by saying I was a 52 00:02:13,884 --> 00:02:17,004 really weird kid because I grew up in, 53 00:02:17,644 --> 00:02:18,144 affluent 54 00:02:18,525 --> 00:02:19,745 Boston suburb. 55 00:02:20,205 --> 00:02:20,705 And 56 00:02:21,164 --> 00:02:23,969 my parents divorced when I was 13, which 57 00:02:24,129 --> 00:02:26,949 is a tough age to have your family 58 00:02:27,169 --> 00:02:27,669 infrastructure 59 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:30,469 fall apart. But I also remember 60 00:02:31,409 --> 00:02:34,129 sitting on my dad's lap, my dad who 61 00:02:34,129 --> 00:02:35,030 was a very 62 00:02:35,969 --> 00:02:36,469 challenging, 63 00:02:38,004 --> 00:02:39,064 wounded guy 64 00:02:39,444 --> 00:02:40,664 and saying to him, 65 00:02:41,044 --> 00:02:42,745 if this is gonna make you happier, 66 00:02:43,044 --> 00:02:43,544 then 67 00:02:44,324 --> 00:02:45,224 that's great. 68 00:02:46,084 --> 00:02:46,884 From there 69 00:02:47,764 --> 00:02:48,965 I mean, I don't even know if it 70 00:02:48,965 --> 00:02:50,485 was from there. It must have been right 71 00:02:50,485 --> 00:02:52,884 around there where I had a long history 72 00:02:52,884 --> 00:02:53,370 of 73 00:02:54,009 --> 00:02:56,810 sleep challenges, and I can remember going to 74 00:02:56,810 --> 00:02:58,669 a used bookstore and finding 75 00:02:59,289 --> 00:02:59,949 The Relaxation 76 00:03:00,250 --> 00:03:02,590 Response by Herbert Benson, who was 77 00:03:03,129 --> 00:03:06,330 a Harvard trained transcendental meditation guide. Right? And 78 00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:08,669 this would have been, like, 1983 79 00:03:09,155 --> 00:03:11,395 when I was 13. And, like, how did 80 00:03:11,395 --> 00:03:13,895 I find that book and whatever 81 00:03:14,675 --> 00:03:16,935 drew me to it? I don't know. 82 00:03:17,795 --> 00:03:19,094 And I can remember 83 00:03:19,955 --> 00:03:22,355 once my parents split and we moved to 84 00:03:22,355 --> 00:03:22,855 Brookline 85 00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:25,650 and lived with my mom who was you 86 00:03:25,650 --> 00:03:27,169 know, had been a stay at home mom 87 00:03:27,169 --> 00:03:29,250 who moved to a working mom, I can 88 00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:31,169 remember being like, I think I wanna go 89 00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:32,689 to a yoga class. Do you wanna come 90 00:03:32,689 --> 00:03:33,349 with me? 91 00:03:33,650 --> 00:03:35,730 And, again, this was sort of back in 92 00:03:35,730 --> 00:03:38,414 a time before yoga was yoga, and I 93 00:03:38,414 --> 00:03:40,754 can remember us going to a nighttime 94 00:03:41,134 --> 00:03:44,114 yoga class somewhere on the outskirts of Boston. 95 00:03:44,254 --> 00:03:44,754 And 96 00:03:45,294 --> 00:03:46,995 I can remember there was 97 00:03:47,294 --> 00:03:47,955 a crystal 98 00:03:48,750 --> 00:03:51,389 healing store in Brookline Village, and I can 99 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:53,549 remember taking the money that I made at 100 00:03:53,549 --> 00:03:55,789 the deli where I waitressed to the crystal 101 00:03:55,789 --> 00:03:57,250 healing store and buying 102 00:03:57,789 --> 00:03:59,709 a book on crystal healing and buying Chris. 103 00:03:59,709 --> 00:04:02,110 And so, like, I was weird. I don't 104 00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:02,930 even know 105 00:04:03,629 --> 00:04:05,534 where that stuff came from. 106 00:04:06,474 --> 00:04:08,235 And then I I had what I would 107 00:04:08,235 --> 00:04:10,715 say was probably one of the most pivotal 108 00:04:10,715 --> 00:04:12,094 life changing experiences 109 00:04:12,395 --> 00:04:13,294 of my life. 110 00:04:13,594 --> 00:04:15,835 I got a bee in my bonnet that 111 00:04:15,835 --> 00:04:17,855 I wanted to bike on Nova Scotia. 112 00:04:18,660 --> 00:04:22,040 And I found a program called Longacre Expeditions 113 00:04:22,259 --> 00:04:25,000 that was a six week program that was 114 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:27,240 backpacking and canoeing and 115 00:04:27,699 --> 00:04:29,779 rafting and rock climbing and two weeks of 116 00:04:29,779 --> 00:04:31,080 biking on Nova Scotia. 117 00:04:31,524 --> 00:04:34,425 I can remember showing up with my backpack. 118 00:04:34,964 --> 00:04:36,964 One of my dearest friends I met on 119 00:04:36,964 --> 00:04:38,805 that trip, so he has been a friend 120 00:04:38,805 --> 00:04:41,365 for a very long time, and he really 121 00:04:41,365 --> 00:04:43,920 likes to give me endless amounts of grief 122 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,519 about how I had a blow dryer in 123 00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:47,360 my backpack because that's how much I did 124 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,759 not understand about what I was about to 125 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:50,259 do. 126 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:52,580 And I had 127 00:04:52,959 --> 00:04:55,199 a change of clothes for every day because 128 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:57,120 why wouldn't you? And I had my blow 129 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,180 dryer. And 130 00:04:58,835 --> 00:05:01,955 the foundation of that program was actually the 131 00:05:01,955 --> 00:05:03,175 Johari's window, 132 00:05:03,555 --> 00:05:06,595 which for listeners who are not familiar with 133 00:05:06,595 --> 00:05:09,395 that model, it's like this idea that we 134 00:05:09,395 --> 00:05:09,895 have 135 00:05:10,435 --> 00:05:13,495 aspects of ourselves that are known to self, 136 00:05:13,949 --> 00:05:16,750 known to others, unknown to self and unknown 137 00:05:16,750 --> 00:05:17,410 to others. 138 00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:20,990 And every evening, there were sort of what 139 00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:23,310 was called group where we talked about some 140 00:05:23,310 --> 00:05:23,810 logistics 141 00:05:24,189 --> 00:05:26,750 and like who was on dish duty and 142 00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:28,269 that sort of thing. But then there were 143 00:05:28,269 --> 00:05:30,555 these exercises that were were designed 144 00:05:31,574 --> 00:05:32,394 to increase 145 00:05:32,855 --> 00:05:33,915 our self awareness 146 00:05:34,375 --> 00:05:34,875 and 147 00:05:35,495 --> 00:05:38,375 to learn how to give and receive really 148 00:05:38,375 --> 00:05:39,194 hard feedback. 149 00:05:40,615 --> 00:05:42,694 That was the first time in my life 150 00:05:42,694 --> 00:05:44,074 where I felt like 151 00:05:44,740 --> 00:05:45,639 I was received 152 00:05:46,099 --> 00:05:48,759 for who I was, not how I looked. 153 00:05:49,060 --> 00:05:50,500 How old were you when you did this 154 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:51,000 program? 155 00:05:51,860 --> 00:05:54,259 I was 15, the first one that I 156 00:05:54,259 --> 00:05:54,759 did. 157 00:05:55,379 --> 00:05:59,319 I know. Like, crucial timing. Right? So crucial. 158 00:06:00,735 --> 00:06:02,714 And that kind of 159 00:06:03,055 --> 00:06:04,995 I don't know if it set the groundwork 160 00:06:05,454 --> 00:06:05,954 or 161 00:06:06,894 --> 00:06:08,194 tapped me into 162 00:06:09,214 --> 00:06:12,254 a different way of being than most of 163 00:06:12,254 --> 00:06:14,334 the people around me. And I sort of 164 00:06:14,334 --> 00:06:17,279 already came to it with this weirdness, but 165 00:06:17,899 --> 00:06:20,139 it was the first time I'd ever, like, 166 00:06:20,139 --> 00:06:23,100 received feedback about myself. And it's funny the 167 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:25,740 story that you tell about Mark saying she's 168 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:27,899 really deep because one of the first pieces 169 00:06:27,899 --> 00:06:29,199 of feedback I got 170 00:06:29,580 --> 00:06:30,639 on that trip was 171 00:06:31,134 --> 00:06:32,675 you're so deep. 172 00:06:33,055 --> 00:06:35,394 You always look so serious. 173 00:06:35,774 --> 00:06:37,394 You look like you're mad 174 00:06:37,935 --> 00:06:38,914 all the time, 175 00:06:39,375 --> 00:06:39,875 which 176 00:06:40,414 --> 00:06:43,294 was really fascinating. And it has feedback that 177 00:06:43,294 --> 00:06:44,995 I have received in the meantime. 178 00:06:45,779 --> 00:06:48,120 And I have a son who is also 179 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:50,419 a deep thinker and a deep feeler, and 180 00:06:50,419 --> 00:06:52,839 I can see the look on his face 181 00:06:53,860 --> 00:06:56,339 that likely he absorbed in part from me. 182 00:06:56,339 --> 00:06:58,519 And I'm just like, oh, I see 183 00:06:59,225 --> 00:07:00,925 that angry pissed off is. I 184 00:07:01,944 --> 00:07:03,545 recognize that in and I know that he's 185 00:07:03,545 --> 00:07:05,564 not. It's just a funny 186 00:07:06,264 --> 00:07:07,964 resting face. So that 187 00:07:08,504 --> 00:07:10,824 I don't know. That program sort of dialed 188 00:07:10,824 --> 00:07:11,644 me into 189 00:07:12,740 --> 00:07:16,020 a more thoughtful way of moving through my 190 00:07:16,020 --> 00:07:17,160 life, and I 191 00:07:17,620 --> 00:07:19,620 and that sort of got fed along the 192 00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:20,920 way by, 193 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:26,259 junior year English teacher who taught stream of 194 00:07:26,259 --> 00:07:27,960 consciousness journal writing, 195 00:07:28,474 --> 00:07:30,574 which is a practice that I have maintained 196 00:07:30,794 --> 00:07:33,595 since that first outdoor trip at 13. Like, 197 00:07:33,595 --> 00:07:35,375 I still have that journal 198 00:07:35,914 --> 00:07:38,334 that I kept that summer on that trip 199 00:07:38,634 --> 00:07:41,774 and then learned this stream of consciousness writing. 200 00:07:41,834 --> 00:07:44,149 And then, you know, there were lots of 201 00:07:44,149 --> 00:07:46,870 other sort of waypoints along the way that 202 00:07:46,870 --> 00:07:49,689 led me toward a life of 203 00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:51,449 deep thought inquiry, 204 00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:53,050 seeking 205 00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:56,230 sort of deep soul connection with people, not 206 00:07:56,230 --> 00:07:57,770 being very good at 207 00:07:58,154 --> 00:08:01,035 cocktail party, small talk kind of things, not 208 00:08:01,035 --> 00:08:03,675 very good at being superficial, not being very 209 00:08:03,675 --> 00:08:04,654 good at 210 00:08:05,115 --> 00:08:08,475 not being in alignment, which is truly a 211 00:08:08,475 --> 00:08:10,895 blessing. But I think about, you know, my 212 00:08:11,194 --> 00:08:11,694 profession 213 00:08:12,074 --> 00:08:12,574 and 214 00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:15,770 being a nurse and working in a hospital 215 00:08:15,830 --> 00:08:16,889 and not 216 00:08:17,589 --> 00:08:19,689 sort of being aligned with 217 00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:23,910 a lot of conventional medicine and then working 218 00:08:23,910 --> 00:08:25,290 in a hospital and 219 00:08:25,754 --> 00:08:28,634 working as a, quote, mid level practitioner and 220 00:08:28,634 --> 00:08:29,615 feeling like 221 00:08:30,235 --> 00:08:32,795 being overworked and underpaid and feeling like, I 222 00:08:32,795 --> 00:08:34,634 could make more money as a nurse. Like, 223 00:08:34,634 --> 00:08:36,634 what am I doing, and can I continue 224 00:08:36,634 --> 00:08:37,295 to work 225 00:08:37,674 --> 00:08:39,514 more for less? And so it's just sort 226 00:08:39,514 --> 00:08:40,975 of been an interesting 227 00:08:41,730 --> 00:08:42,230 theme 228 00:08:42,690 --> 00:08:46,049 that started at a weirdly young age, you 229 00:08:46,049 --> 00:08:47,190 know, all of which 230 00:08:47,570 --> 00:08:49,269 fed my interest in 231 00:08:49,809 --> 00:08:51,990 going to Hoffman and doing that work, 232 00:08:52,929 --> 00:08:55,750 being curious about any kind of 233 00:08:56,945 --> 00:08:58,085 deep exploration, 234 00:08:59,105 --> 00:09:01,985 that being sort of the most comfortable place 235 00:09:01,985 --> 00:09:03,585 for me to be. So it's not a 236 00:09:03,585 --> 00:09:06,705 big surprise that I work with women one 237 00:09:06,705 --> 00:09:07,445 at a time 238 00:09:07,985 --> 00:09:10,325 for an hour at a time or sometimes 239 00:09:10,384 --> 00:09:12,085 two hours at a time. 240 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,139 And having these, 241 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,980 what feel to me, deep, meaningful conversations about 242 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:20,679 the real substance of their lives and how 243 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,779 that informs their health. 244 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,404 Yeah. So I know that you are in 245 00:09:26,464 --> 00:09:29,845 integrative functional medicine, that you are an advanced 246 00:09:29,904 --> 00:09:31,125 practice nurse. 247 00:09:31,504 --> 00:09:33,504 I love that you called out this weird 248 00:09:33,504 --> 00:09:34,884 title of mid level 249 00:09:35,264 --> 00:09:35,764 practitioner. 250 00:09:36,544 --> 00:09:38,804 I love that you said I'm not good 251 00:09:38,865 --> 00:09:40,485 at not being aligned. 252 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:43,339 The fact that you can look back and 253 00:09:43,339 --> 00:09:43,839 see 254 00:09:44,139 --> 00:09:45,360 from early on 255 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:48,559 how that was not something you were willing 256 00:09:48,700 --> 00:09:49,919 to do or tolerate. 257 00:09:50,379 --> 00:09:52,620 I think about that 13 year old girl 258 00:09:52,620 --> 00:09:54,720 on your dad's lap and the courage 259 00:09:55,579 --> 00:09:56,320 and empathy 260 00:09:56,964 --> 00:09:58,964 that it took to say, if this is 261 00:09:58,964 --> 00:10:01,225 what makes you happy, do it. 262 00:10:01,605 --> 00:10:04,085 I mean, it was a relief, honestly, Sadie. 263 00:10:04,085 --> 00:10:05,705 Right? Like, he was such 264 00:10:06,085 --> 00:10:08,964 a angry, domineering presence. Like, the thought of 265 00:10:08,964 --> 00:10:10,804 not having to live with him every day 266 00:10:10,804 --> 00:10:12,720 was a true relief. 267 00:10:13,340 --> 00:10:15,600 So there was that aspect as well. 268 00:10:16,139 --> 00:10:17,759 Our relationship was 269 00:10:18,139 --> 00:10:21,580 long and complicated and fascinating in that he 270 00:10:21,580 --> 00:10:24,540 was a real Horatio Alger's kind of guy, 271 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:25,040 like, 272 00:10:25,445 --> 00:10:28,024 born in Brooklyn, was a Jewish guy, 273 00:10:28,565 --> 00:10:31,605 slept on the fire escape in his apartment 274 00:10:31,605 --> 00:10:33,625 because there wasn't really room for him 275 00:10:34,164 --> 00:10:34,904 in his 276 00:10:35,445 --> 00:10:38,245 apartment. His dad died when he was young. 277 00:10:38,245 --> 00:10:40,585 He put himself through Brooklyn Polytech, 278 00:10:41,149 --> 00:10:42,769 then he put himself through 279 00:10:43,629 --> 00:10:46,269 MIT as an aeronautical engineer, then he put 280 00:10:46,269 --> 00:10:48,429 himself through Boston College and was, like, the 281 00:10:48,429 --> 00:10:50,750 first Jewish guy to graduate from Boston College 282 00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:52,590 with a degree in business and then was 283 00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:53,410 an entrepreneur 284 00:10:54,914 --> 00:10:57,154 during the late eighties. I mean, so he 285 00:10:57,154 --> 00:10:58,134 was simultaneously 286 00:10:58,514 --> 00:11:01,975 super challenging and fascinating, and he 287 00:11:02,674 --> 00:11:04,834 had a healing crisis. He developed a brain 288 00:11:04,834 --> 00:11:06,214 tumor when I was 289 00:11:06,595 --> 00:11:07,414 21, 290 00:11:07,634 --> 00:11:09,414 and that sent him 291 00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:12,480 on a healing journey that involved 292 00:11:13,259 --> 00:11:15,819 moving to Asheville, North Carolina to be near 293 00:11:15,819 --> 00:11:16,639 his macrobiotic 294 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:17,600 community 295 00:11:18,059 --> 00:11:21,440 and doing a lot of spiritual healing. And 296 00:11:22,634 --> 00:11:23,535 so we actually 297 00:11:24,634 --> 00:11:25,375 had this 298 00:11:25,754 --> 00:11:28,254 interesting point of connection around 299 00:11:29,274 --> 00:11:31,274 health and healing toward the end of his 300 00:11:31,274 --> 00:11:34,175 life, and I ended up being his primary 301 00:11:35,019 --> 00:11:37,980 caregiver and his power of attorney, and he 302 00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:41,259 ended up having a second brain surgery for 303 00:11:41,259 --> 00:11:43,659 a tumor that he never left the hospital 304 00:11:43,659 --> 00:11:44,639 from. And, 305 00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:48,534 I mean, it was still a challenging, of 306 00:11:48,534 --> 00:11:51,495 course, strained relationship, but I was also able 307 00:11:51,495 --> 00:11:53,274 to sort of honor his light 308 00:11:53,975 --> 00:11:55,835 through his end of life transition 309 00:11:56,294 --> 00:11:56,794 and 310 00:11:57,335 --> 00:11:59,754 honor him in the best way 311 00:12:00,774 --> 00:12:01,274 possible 312 00:12:02,019 --> 00:12:05,159 given all the realities of his personality and 313 00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:07,080 marriages and 314 00:12:07,539 --> 00:12:08,759 complicated relationships 315 00:12:09,139 --> 00:12:10,440 and all of the things 316 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:12,440 that were him. So, 317 00:12:13,379 --> 00:12:15,080 yeah, he he's an interesting 318 00:12:15,485 --> 00:12:17,884 an interesting character and a a funny little, 319 00:12:17,884 --> 00:12:21,105 like, convergence of our worlds was 320 00:12:21,884 --> 00:12:25,725 when I left being a hospital based nurse 321 00:12:25,725 --> 00:12:28,620 midwife and moved to a clinic, a world 322 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:30,700 renowned clinic in Yarmouth, Maine called Women to 323 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:31,759 Women that was 324 00:12:32,299 --> 00:12:35,039 pioneering in women's health and functional medicine. 325 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:38,220 I was doing a training with one of 326 00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:39,039 the specialty 327 00:12:39,899 --> 00:12:40,799 lab companies 328 00:12:41,654 --> 00:12:43,815 to review someone's test results with a test 329 00:12:43,815 --> 00:12:45,495 that I was unfamiliar with to try and 330 00:12:45,495 --> 00:12:47,174 make sense of what it meant and how 331 00:12:47,174 --> 00:12:49,014 to make a treatment plan. And I get 332 00:12:49,014 --> 00:12:50,475 on the call with this 333 00:12:50,855 --> 00:12:52,554 naturopath, and she's like, 334 00:12:53,095 --> 00:12:54,554 is your last name Levine? 335 00:12:55,174 --> 00:12:57,034 And I was like, yeah. And she's like, 336 00:12:57,830 --> 00:13:00,309 are you related to Steven Levine by any 337 00:13:00,309 --> 00:13:02,629 chance? And I was like, yeah. He was 338 00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:04,730 my dad. And she was like, 339 00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:07,769 yeah. We dated a couple years ago. 340 00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:12,809 So it was just 341 00:13:13,304 --> 00:13:13,884 a funny 342 00:13:15,384 --> 00:13:18,825 his healing journey and my moving toward this 343 00:13:18,825 --> 00:13:20,044 kind of health care 344 00:13:20,585 --> 00:13:21,485 happened simultaneously. 345 00:13:22,184 --> 00:13:24,024 You know, he also was like a super 346 00:13:24,024 --> 00:13:26,424 deeply spiritual guy. You know, he would send 347 00:13:26,424 --> 00:13:26,924 me 348 00:13:27,309 --> 00:13:28,210 poems and, 349 00:13:29,230 --> 00:13:30,050 you know, 350 00:13:30,590 --> 00:13:31,090 complicated, 351 00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:33,009 like most parents. 352 00:13:33,790 --> 00:13:34,290 Complicated, 353 00:13:35,149 --> 00:13:35,649 challenging. 354 00:13:36,430 --> 00:13:40,450 It definitely sounds like you found some healing 355 00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:41,090 and 356 00:13:41,404 --> 00:13:43,085 that it was an important part of your 357 00:13:43,085 --> 00:13:45,745 journey in how that relationship evolved. 358 00:13:46,285 --> 00:13:49,264 Yeah. And ongoing, of course, the healing. 359 00:13:50,524 --> 00:13:52,225 Right? That's not over. 360 00:13:53,085 --> 00:13:55,629 I'm curious about how and when you decided 361 00:13:55,629 --> 00:13:57,790 to go into medicine. I'm curious about how 362 00:13:57,790 --> 00:13:59,950 and when you decided to come out and 363 00:13:59,950 --> 00:14:00,850 where in 364 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:04,029 the journey with your dad you went to 365 00:14:04,029 --> 00:14:04,529 Hoffman. 366 00:14:04,990 --> 00:14:06,670 Tell us a bit more about both of 367 00:14:06,670 --> 00:14:07,410 those things. 368 00:14:07,985 --> 00:14:10,065 So I was the kid who was a 369 00:14:10,065 --> 00:14:12,565 horrible standardized test taker, 370 00:14:12,945 --> 00:14:14,725 like, terrible, terrible, terrible, 371 00:14:15,345 --> 00:14:18,644 like, barely broke 800 combined on my SATs 372 00:14:18,865 --> 00:14:21,044 pre and post SAT prep class. 373 00:14:21,424 --> 00:14:22,884 So that really 374 00:14:23,850 --> 00:14:26,669 influenced where I thought about going to school. 375 00:14:26,970 --> 00:14:30,169 I ended up at Umaine Orono, the University 376 00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:31,929 of Maine in Orono, thinking I was gonna 377 00:14:31,929 --> 00:14:32,909 be a psych major 378 00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:34,990 because super interested in psychology 379 00:14:35,769 --> 00:14:37,710 and could not get through statistics 380 00:14:38,345 --> 00:14:39,725 and ended up 381 00:14:40,184 --> 00:14:43,065 changing my major. During that time, I ended 382 00:14:43,065 --> 00:14:44,925 up doing a semester in New Mexico 383 00:14:45,705 --> 00:14:48,665 because I had done another outdoor trip when 384 00:14:48,665 --> 00:14:49,485 I was, like, 385 00:14:50,299 --> 00:14:52,539 16 or 17 that took me to New 386 00:14:52,539 --> 00:14:55,179 Mexico to the Taos Pueblo where I felt 387 00:14:55,179 --> 00:14:55,679 this 388 00:14:56,379 --> 00:14:56,879 unbelievable 389 00:14:58,539 --> 00:14:59,039 energy, 390 00:14:59,899 --> 00:15:00,399 draw, 391 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:01,600 fascination. 392 00:15:03,565 --> 00:15:06,544 I just was so drawn to the culture, 393 00:15:06,605 --> 00:15:08,464 to the Earth centric, 394 00:15:09,485 --> 00:15:10,384 Earth loving 395 00:15:10,764 --> 00:15:11,264 culture 396 00:15:12,044 --> 00:15:14,284 there and then, of course, the beauty of 397 00:15:14,284 --> 00:15:15,745 the Desert Southwest. 398 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:18,519 So ended up doing a semester exchange to 399 00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:19,259 New Mexico 400 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:22,919 and had a small group communications professor. I 401 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:25,240 had done a lot of trip leading in 402 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,399 the outdoors, and so I had done a 403 00:15:27,399 --> 00:15:29,980 lot of, like, women's climbing courses 404 00:15:30,875 --> 00:15:32,414 and backpacking courses. 405 00:15:33,115 --> 00:15:34,554 So this is 1988 406 00:15:34,554 --> 00:15:37,115 just for context, and I got very interested 407 00:15:37,115 --> 00:15:38,174 in gender communication. 408 00:15:39,195 --> 00:15:41,034 Must have been right around the men are 409 00:15:41,034 --> 00:15:43,355 from Mars, women are women are from Venus 410 00:15:43,355 --> 00:15:45,034 time. I'm not sure I actually ever read 411 00:15:45,034 --> 00:15:47,529 that book, but was super interested in gender 412 00:15:47,529 --> 00:15:48,590 communication, particularly 413 00:15:49,529 --> 00:15:50,429 in the outdoor 414 00:15:50,809 --> 00:15:53,389 world, which was largely male dominated, 415 00:15:53,929 --> 00:15:54,429 obviously. 416 00:15:55,049 --> 00:15:58,169 This small group communications professor said to me, 417 00:15:58,169 --> 00:15:59,070 he was like, 418 00:15:59,804 --> 00:16:01,565 what are you doing at Umaine or Orono? 419 00:16:01,565 --> 00:16:03,565 Like, if you wanna study communications, you either 420 00:16:03,565 --> 00:16:05,165 go to Syracuse or you'd go to you'd 421 00:16:05,165 --> 00:16:07,165 go to Northwestern. And I was like, 422 00:16:08,125 --> 00:16:11,004 okay. So I looked at those schools, and 423 00:16:11,004 --> 00:16:13,325 then I looked at the majors, and there 424 00:16:13,325 --> 00:16:16,470 was nothing there that really lined 425 00:16:17,009 --> 00:16:19,730 up. And I had very poor guidance, and 426 00:16:19,730 --> 00:16:21,350 so I ended up at Syracuse 427 00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:23,029 as a public relations 428 00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:26,370 women's studies major. And I like to joke, 429 00:16:26,370 --> 00:16:28,389 I knew I was never gonna 430 00:16:28,930 --> 00:16:29,430 work 431 00:16:29,804 --> 00:16:32,125 in PR in New York City, and I 432 00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:34,065 work in PR every day. 433 00:16:35,164 --> 00:16:37,105 So it's not like that education 434 00:16:37,404 --> 00:16:39,184 was lost on me. 435 00:16:39,565 --> 00:16:41,184 When I was at Umaine Orono, 436 00:16:41,725 --> 00:16:43,024 I had a job 437 00:16:43,404 --> 00:16:44,945 at the women's health clinic 438 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:48,000 as a peer counselor, and so that was 439 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,019 really my foray into 440 00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:52,100 other than my own 441 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,980 navigating my own health care as a teenager, 442 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:57,139 that was my first foray into 443 00:16:58,315 --> 00:17:00,975 a clinic kind of environment or a 444 00:17:01,355 --> 00:17:01,855 structured 445 00:17:02,235 --> 00:17:03,774 health care model. And 446 00:17:04,234 --> 00:17:06,554 the director of the women's health clinic at 447 00:17:06,554 --> 00:17:08,815 the time was a woman named Ruth Lockhart 448 00:17:08,954 --> 00:17:10,654 who was starting simultaneously 449 00:17:11,515 --> 00:17:14,549 in Bangor, Maine, a feminist health center that 450 00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:16,950 is still in existence called Mabel Wadsworth women's 451 00:17:16,950 --> 00:17:19,669 health center. And they had a day long 452 00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:21,529 conference called health in our hands. 453 00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:23,529 And the keynote speakers 454 00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:26,409 at that conference were Christiane Northrop, 455 00:17:26,775 --> 00:17:28,535 who was one of the founding mothers of 456 00:17:28,535 --> 00:17:31,275 Women to Women, who has written many, many 457 00:17:31,654 --> 00:17:34,215 powerful books on women's health, like women's bodies, 458 00:17:34,215 --> 00:17:35,035 women's wisdom, 459 00:17:35,575 --> 00:17:38,795 and Deb Sewell, who is a local herbalist, 460 00:17:39,174 --> 00:17:41,909 the founder of a herbal apothecary in West 461 00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:43,609 Rockport, Maine called Avina Botanicals. 462 00:17:44,069 --> 00:17:46,869 Deb is still deeply steeped in the earth 463 00:17:46,869 --> 00:17:48,809 and deeply steeped in 464 00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:52,250 some of the science around plants and deeply 465 00:17:52,309 --> 00:17:55,210 steeped now in permaculture and regenerative 466 00:17:55,795 --> 00:17:57,734 farming and a whole host of things. 467 00:17:58,035 --> 00:17:59,654 And those two women 468 00:18:00,275 --> 00:18:01,974 stood on the podium together, 469 00:18:02,515 --> 00:18:03,015 this 470 00:18:03,315 --> 00:18:04,055 OB GYN 471 00:18:04,835 --> 00:18:05,815 and this herbalist, 472 00:18:06,994 --> 00:18:08,295 both whom I had 473 00:18:09,019 --> 00:18:11,579 read books and taken courses and yada yada. 474 00:18:11,579 --> 00:18:14,159 And and that was my moment of 475 00:18:14,859 --> 00:18:16,559 it's not either or. 476 00:18:17,339 --> 00:18:18,880 It's both and. 477 00:18:19,259 --> 00:18:21,659 And it depends on the situation, and it 478 00:18:21,659 --> 00:18:23,865 depends on the person and how she wants 479 00:18:23,865 --> 00:18:24,845 to take care of herself. 480 00:18:25,785 --> 00:18:27,304 And, like, it's for each of us to 481 00:18:27,304 --> 00:18:29,005 decide how we wanna do it. 482 00:18:30,025 --> 00:18:32,744 So when I was finishing my degree in 483 00:18:32,744 --> 00:18:34,845 Syracuse, I went back to Ruth, 484 00:18:35,384 --> 00:18:37,390 and I was like, Ruth, I think I 485 00:18:37,390 --> 00:18:38,829 wanna go to school for some kind of 486 00:18:38,829 --> 00:18:40,190 health care. I don't really know what I 487 00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:42,049 wanna do. Do I wanna be a naturopath? 488 00:18:42,109 --> 00:18:44,029 Do I wanna be a yoga teacher? Like, 489 00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:45,170 I wasn't sure. 490 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:47,869 And she said, how long do you wanna 491 00:18:47,869 --> 00:18:49,549 go to school for, and how many loans 492 00:18:49,549 --> 00:18:50,565 do you wanna have? 493 00:18:51,284 --> 00:18:53,845 She was so great and practical, and she 494 00:18:53,845 --> 00:18:55,944 was like, what about being a nurse practitioner? 495 00:18:56,565 --> 00:18:58,484 In the state of Maine, we're licensed to 496 00:18:58,484 --> 00:19:02,004 practice independently. We don't need physician supervision. Like, 497 00:19:02,004 --> 00:19:03,704 you can be your own person. 498 00:19:04,244 --> 00:19:05,384 And I was like, 499 00:19:05,684 --> 00:19:06,184 oh, 500 00:19:07,289 --> 00:19:07,789 yeah. 501 00:19:08,169 --> 00:19:10,649 Because I didn't wanna be a physician's assistant 502 00:19:10,649 --> 00:19:12,809 because I didn't want to have to answer 503 00:19:12,809 --> 00:19:15,130 to anybody else, and I really wanted to 504 00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:15,869 be independent. 505 00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:19,095 And I really wanted to be able 506 00:19:20,054 --> 00:19:22,694 to embody that continuum that I saw on 507 00:19:22,694 --> 00:19:25,115 that podium of both and. 508 00:19:26,054 --> 00:19:27,914 So I looked at programs 509 00:19:28,454 --> 00:19:28,954 nationwide, 510 00:19:30,054 --> 00:19:31,275 got through my GRE 511 00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:35,789 and ended up at Case Western Reserve in 512 00:19:35,789 --> 00:19:36,850 Cleveland, Ohio. 513 00:19:37,309 --> 00:19:38,930 I thought I was on a women's 514 00:19:39,230 --> 00:19:41,630 health nurse practitioner track, but when I got 515 00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:42,130 there, 516 00:19:42,670 --> 00:19:44,269 there were a bunch of women who were 517 00:19:44,269 --> 00:19:45,490 all gonna be midwives. 518 00:19:46,195 --> 00:19:48,775 Still friend, a Seattle based still friend, 519 00:19:49,154 --> 00:19:52,195 was doing a doula training. So training people 520 00:19:52,195 --> 00:19:53,894 to be labor assistance. 521 00:19:54,674 --> 00:19:57,075 And I got a job on labor and 522 00:19:57,075 --> 00:19:59,894 delivery at the Cleveland Clinic. And so 523 00:20:00,490 --> 00:20:02,409 I had that job, and then I did 524 00:20:02,409 --> 00:20:04,970 a doula training. And the nurses at the 525 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:07,769 Cleveland Clinic would throw me into the labor 526 00:20:07,769 --> 00:20:10,089 room to be with women when they had 527 00:20:10,089 --> 00:20:12,589 to run around and do other stuff. Because 528 00:20:13,464 --> 00:20:15,085 what I found was that 529 00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:17,164 being in the labor room 530 00:20:17,464 --> 00:20:19,565 was not unlike helping women 531 00:20:20,264 --> 00:20:21,164 climb mountains 532 00:20:21,544 --> 00:20:23,004 or rock climb. 533 00:20:23,704 --> 00:20:25,244 It was this incredible 534 00:20:26,105 --> 00:20:26,605 transference 535 00:20:26,984 --> 00:20:27,644 of skills 536 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:31,039 and of presence and of empowerment, 537 00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,119 and it was really, 538 00:20:34,059 --> 00:20:36,460 I wanna say, easy for me to be 539 00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:38,539 in that space with a laboring woman who 540 00:20:38,539 --> 00:20:40,320 didn't feel like she could do it 541 00:20:40,859 --> 00:20:41,359 and 542 00:20:42,059 --> 00:20:43,119 take care of her. 543 00:20:43,575 --> 00:20:45,194 And so there was this really 544 00:20:45,815 --> 00:20:46,315 beautiful 545 00:20:47,174 --> 00:20:50,474 transference of skills from being a outdoor experiential 546 00:20:50,615 --> 00:20:52,315 educator to the labor room. 547 00:20:52,694 --> 00:20:55,894 So became a nurse midwife, and my boyfriend 548 00:20:55,894 --> 00:20:58,180 at the time, now husband, was like, I'm 549 00:20:58,180 --> 00:20:59,000 out of Cleveland. 550 00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:00,519 And at the time, 551 00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:03,460 there was a program called the community nurse 552 00:21:03,460 --> 00:21:06,420 midwifery education program, which was a distance education 553 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:09,720 program before distance education was a thing out 554 00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:11,480 of Heiden, Kentucky, 555 00:21:12,274 --> 00:21:14,694 which just had the most unbelievable 556 00:21:15,394 --> 00:21:15,894 legacy 557 00:21:16,194 --> 00:21:17,974 of a senator's daughter 558 00:21:18,515 --> 00:21:20,755 falling in love with the hills people in 559 00:21:20,755 --> 00:21:21,255 Kentucky, 560 00:21:22,274 --> 00:21:22,774 traveling 561 00:21:23,315 --> 00:21:24,214 on horseback. 562 00:21:25,075 --> 00:21:26,694 She and her team of 563 00:21:27,139 --> 00:21:27,639 nurses 564 00:21:28,259 --> 00:21:30,119 would travel through the hills of Kentucky 565 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,679 and teach the hills people like, 566 00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:36,659 oh, if you're washing your laundry at this 567 00:21:36,659 --> 00:21:37,960 spot in the stream, 568 00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,220 you might wanna get your drinking water from 569 00:21:41,220 --> 00:21:42,679 above that spot. 570 00:21:43,595 --> 00:21:44,095 Really 571 00:21:44,634 --> 00:21:45,134 basic 572 00:21:45,515 --> 00:21:46,015 foundational 573 00:21:46,475 --> 00:21:48,095 public health lessons. 574 00:21:48,715 --> 00:21:50,494 These nurses would end up 575 00:21:50,795 --> 00:21:53,695 attending births to the health people and then 576 00:21:53,914 --> 00:21:56,490 coming back and checking on the babies to 577 00:21:56,490 --> 00:21:58,490 make sure that, you know, everybody was well. 578 00:21:58,490 --> 00:22:00,809 And so there was something about that legacy, 579 00:22:00,809 --> 00:22:02,890 that public health legacy. Right? Like, some of 580 00:22:02,890 --> 00:22:03,869 those really 581 00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:04,830 basic 582 00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:06,430 teachings that 583 00:22:06,809 --> 00:22:08,730 still speak to me in terms of teaching 584 00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:09,549 people about 585 00:22:09,964 --> 00:22:13,005 nutrition and exercise, like, really basic stuff that 586 00:22:13,005 --> 00:22:14,924 that gets lost in the shuffle, right, in 587 00:22:14,924 --> 00:22:17,565 in the noise of what is health on 588 00:22:17,565 --> 00:22:20,605 Instagram, you know, the the minutiae. Like, we've 589 00:22:20,605 --> 00:22:23,105 lost some of the really basic things. 590 00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:25,759 I remember that first day, 591 00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:28,539 we had to go to Kentucky for a 592 00:22:28,539 --> 00:22:30,299 couple of weeks, and then they had a 593 00:22:30,299 --> 00:22:30,799 relationship 594 00:22:31,099 --> 00:22:31,599 with 595 00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:34,140 CASE. And so it was my master's is 596 00:22:34,140 --> 00:22:36,779 from CASE, but my certificate was from Frontier, 597 00:22:36,779 --> 00:22:38,720 which is now Frontier Nursing University. 598 00:22:39,394 --> 00:22:40,214 But I remember 599 00:22:40,754 --> 00:22:43,075 one of those first days being in the 600 00:22:43,075 --> 00:22:45,315 classroom in Kentucky with people I had never 601 00:22:45,315 --> 00:22:48,355 met and all of the different disciplines that 602 00:22:48,355 --> 00:22:48,855 midwifery 603 00:22:49,794 --> 00:22:53,974 draws from, whether that's social work, public health, 604 00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:54,930 herbalism, 605 00:22:55,470 --> 00:22:55,970 medicine. 606 00:22:56,990 --> 00:23:00,190 I just felt the deepest sense of I 607 00:23:00,190 --> 00:23:01,650 am in the right 608 00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:02,450 spot 609 00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:04,369 because by nature, 610 00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:06,609 it is sort of an interdisciplinary 611 00:23:07,230 --> 00:23:07,730 practice. 612 00:23:08,509 --> 00:23:10,884 One of the great things about this program 613 00:23:10,884 --> 00:23:13,204 was our clinicals were in the communities where 614 00:23:13,204 --> 00:23:15,845 we lived. And so that was a way 615 00:23:15,845 --> 00:23:16,904 to begin to 616 00:23:17,684 --> 00:23:20,244 integrate us into our communities and to develop 617 00:23:20,244 --> 00:23:23,000 professional connections and yada yada. So 618 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:25,220 I lived in Maine and did a lot 619 00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:27,539 of and obviously did my clinicals here. And 620 00:23:27,539 --> 00:23:29,000 when I finished school, 621 00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:31,640 the only midwifery job in the state 622 00:23:32,099 --> 00:23:34,680 was at the community hospital in Damascada, 623 00:23:35,299 --> 00:23:37,944 which was called Miles Memorial Hospital and is 624 00:23:37,944 --> 00:23:39,964 now Maine Health Lincoln, I think. 625 00:23:40,505 --> 00:23:43,625 And this area where I still live is 626 00:23:43,625 --> 00:23:44,765 a place where 627 00:23:45,224 --> 00:23:45,964 my husband 628 00:23:46,825 --> 00:23:49,085 grew up summering, and both grandparents 629 00:23:49,429 --> 00:23:51,929 had a place and had a very specialized 630 00:23:52,069 --> 00:23:53,509 kind of high school that sort of had 631 00:23:53,509 --> 00:23:54,970 always been his dream. 632 00:23:55,509 --> 00:23:58,150 So this job opened up, which was full 633 00:23:58,150 --> 00:23:58,650 time. 634 00:23:59,109 --> 00:24:00,710 There was a job at the high school 635 00:24:00,710 --> 00:24:03,049 that opened up, and then within two weeks, 636 00:24:03,109 --> 00:24:05,085 found out that I was pregnant with my 637 00:24:05,085 --> 00:24:07,664 son. And so all of that happened 638 00:24:08,365 --> 00:24:09,265 very quickly. 639 00:24:09,644 --> 00:24:11,505 And that launched me into 640 00:24:12,525 --> 00:24:15,085 working full time as a nurse midwife with 641 00:24:15,085 --> 00:24:15,884 50% 642 00:24:15,884 --> 00:24:17,825 call and having a nursing baby, 643 00:24:18,125 --> 00:24:20,065 which should not go very well. 644 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:23,159 So you find yourself in this place, 645 00:24:23,539 --> 00:24:24,039 you 646 00:24:24,339 --> 00:24:25,319 accompanying women 647 00:24:26,019 --> 00:24:27,240 to climb mountains. 648 00:24:27,619 --> 00:24:30,919 And then in the labor room, you accompanying 649 00:24:30,980 --> 00:24:34,579 them to step through a threshold that changes 650 00:24:34,579 --> 00:24:36,845 them as a human being, as a woman. 651 00:24:36,984 --> 00:24:38,845 And at some point you found yourself 652 00:24:39,384 --> 00:24:39,884 depleted. 653 00:24:40,825 --> 00:24:42,285 That's a kind word. 654 00:24:42,984 --> 00:24:43,884 Burned out. 655 00:24:44,585 --> 00:24:46,984 Crazy. Those are other words that come to 656 00:24:46,984 --> 00:24:47,484 mind. 657 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,759 During my seven and a half years at 658 00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:51,460 the local hospital, my call 659 00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:54,559 took all different kinds of formations. At first, 660 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:56,480 it was 50% because it was a very 661 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:57,299 small service. 662 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,480 Then they integrated midwifery call with family practice, 663 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,180 so then I was one in five. 664 00:25:02,535 --> 00:25:05,255 Then they returned to a full midwifery service, 665 00:25:05,255 --> 00:25:07,174 and I was one in three. And, of 666 00:25:07,174 --> 00:25:09,434 course, the volume of births in the practice 667 00:25:09,575 --> 00:25:11,115 changed through that time. 668 00:25:11,414 --> 00:25:12,795 I had two children 669 00:25:13,095 --> 00:25:14,234 during that time, 670 00:25:14,615 --> 00:25:17,835 and I had always been looking for 671 00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:20,299 a different job. I knew 672 00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:21,259 that 673 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:22,779 the sleep deprivation 674 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:23,740 was 675 00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,519 no good for me and my health. And 676 00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:28,359 I was doing that not only at work, 677 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,940 but also at home breastfeeding my own kids. 678 00:25:31,785 --> 00:25:34,424 The sort of climate of health care was 679 00:25:34,424 --> 00:25:36,825 changing for us mid level practitioners at that 680 00:25:36,825 --> 00:25:38,205 time where we were 681 00:25:39,305 --> 00:25:40,904 being asked to do more and more and 682 00:25:40,904 --> 00:25:42,505 more for less and less and less and 683 00:25:42,505 --> 00:25:44,105 less. At least that's how it is in 684 00:25:44,105 --> 00:25:45,005 rural Maine. 685 00:25:45,305 --> 00:25:45,965 I imagine 686 00:25:46,679 --> 00:25:47,179 still 687 00:25:47,639 --> 00:25:50,679 is. Again, like, bumped into my integrity of 688 00:25:50,679 --> 00:25:51,339 just, like, 689 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:54,919 any person with a reasonable self esteem would 690 00:25:54,919 --> 00:25:55,419 not 691 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:56,460 work 692 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:58,220 like this 693 00:25:59,115 --> 00:26:00,734 for this amount of money. 694 00:26:01,035 --> 00:26:01,855 And it wasn't 695 00:26:02,154 --> 00:26:04,394 just about the money. It was also about 696 00:26:04,394 --> 00:26:06,015 my mental health and 697 00:26:06,394 --> 00:26:07,775 the extent to which 698 00:26:08,234 --> 00:26:10,714 I felt I could show up the way 699 00:26:10,714 --> 00:26:12,634 that I wanted to show up for my 700 00:26:12,634 --> 00:26:13,535 own family. 701 00:26:14,179 --> 00:26:16,339 The being on call and the sort of 702 00:26:16,339 --> 00:26:16,839 constant 703 00:26:17,539 --> 00:26:19,559 sympathetic nervous system activation 704 00:26:19,940 --> 00:26:22,900 of always being on the ready, and I 705 00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:23,640 can remember 706 00:26:24,019 --> 00:26:26,259 the moment that I was like, okay. It's 707 00:26:26,259 --> 00:26:28,200 time for me to find a different job 708 00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:28,920 was 709 00:26:29,545 --> 00:26:31,464 my pager went off in the middle of 710 00:26:31,464 --> 00:26:32,125 the night. 711 00:26:32,904 --> 00:26:33,404 And 712 00:26:34,025 --> 00:26:35,005 I think simultaneously, 713 00:26:35,464 --> 00:26:37,065 there must have been a kid who needed 714 00:26:37,065 --> 00:26:37,565 something. 715 00:26:37,945 --> 00:26:39,484 I call the woman 716 00:26:39,785 --> 00:26:42,150 who called to the answering service, and she's 717 00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:43,990 trying to figure out whether or not her 718 00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:46,009 water broke. And I am 719 00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:49,589 irritated with her. I am irritated, and I 720 00:26:49,589 --> 00:26:50,250 am like, 721 00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:51,930 okay, 722 00:26:52,309 --> 00:26:52,809 Carrie. 723 00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:56,630 Who are you serving right now? Like, you 724 00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:57,609 are not serving 725 00:26:58,394 --> 00:26:58,894 anybody. 726 00:27:00,394 --> 00:27:02,795 No one. And so I started to look 727 00:27:02,795 --> 00:27:03,295 for 728 00:27:03,595 --> 00:27:06,255 work that did not involve being on call 729 00:27:06,475 --> 00:27:08,494 and found this job at Women to Win. 730 00:27:08,955 --> 00:27:13,055 So you are speaking about a shared experience 731 00:27:13,849 --> 00:27:16,970 that a lot of parents have where there's 732 00:27:16,970 --> 00:27:18,029 a certain value 733 00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:21,609 to what you earn, what you provide, the 734 00:27:21,609 --> 00:27:22,109 professional 735 00:27:22,650 --> 00:27:23,869 part of your life. 736 00:27:24,330 --> 00:27:25,789 And that has a pull. 737 00:27:26,724 --> 00:27:30,024 Being present and loving and self 738 00:27:30,325 --> 00:27:30,825 loving, 739 00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:33,524 being resilient as a human being doesn't seem 740 00:27:33,524 --> 00:27:35,704 to carry as much weight or 741 00:27:36,244 --> 00:27:38,005 value in the world, and that can be 742 00:27:38,005 --> 00:27:40,264 a really difficult tug of war. 743 00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:42,909 Don't you think that that's the challenge of 744 00:27:42,909 --> 00:27:45,230 our generation of women? I'm putting us in 745 00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:47,309 the same generation not knowing for sure that 746 00:27:47,309 --> 00:27:47,970 we are. 747 00:27:48,509 --> 00:27:50,190 But, you know, I remember when I showed 748 00:27:50,190 --> 00:27:51,950 up at Women to Women, so I still 749 00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:54,529 had call, but it was only for, like, 750 00:27:54,994 --> 00:27:57,414 can you refill my birth control pills? Or, 751 00:27:57,875 --> 00:27:59,734 you know, I never had to go anywhere, 752 00:27:59,795 --> 00:28:01,315 and I never had to be up all 753 00:28:01,315 --> 00:28:03,015 night, and I never was gonna 754 00:28:03,555 --> 00:28:05,715 have to leave the house. So when the 755 00:28:05,715 --> 00:28:07,555 kids were like, when are you gonna be 756 00:28:07,555 --> 00:28:10,035 back? I never had to say, I don't 757 00:28:10,035 --> 00:28:10,529 know. 758 00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:13,970 But I can remember sitting with women at 759 00:28:13,970 --> 00:28:17,009 women to women and woman after woman after 760 00:28:17,009 --> 00:28:17,509 woman 761 00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:20,309 showing up with a diagnosis of anxiety 762 00:28:20,769 --> 00:28:21,269 or 763 00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:22,070 bipolar, 764 00:28:22,450 --> 00:28:24,390 which really to me was misdiagnosed 765 00:28:24,849 --> 00:28:26,884 often, not always, often misdiagnosed 766 00:28:27,184 --> 00:28:30,325 premenstrual syndrome. Right? There was like a cyclic 767 00:28:30,384 --> 00:28:30,884 pattern 768 00:28:31,505 --> 00:28:32,005 to 769 00:28:32,465 --> 00:28:34,705 the mood, the energy, the weeping, like all 770 00:28:34,705 --> 00:28:37,265 the things. And at the same time, I 771 00:28:37,265 --> 00:28:38,085 read a book 772 00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:41,419 called Perfect Madness, Mothering in the Age of 773 00:28:41,419 --> 00:28:41,919 Anxiety, 774 00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:44,619 written by Judith Warner, who was a New 775 00:28:44,619 --> 00:28:45,359 York Times 776 00:28:45,819 --> 00:28:48,700 writer, and she chronicles her own having a 777 00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:49,839 baby in France 778 00:28:50,299 --> 00:28:53,164 and the policy infrastructure that's in place for 779 00:28:53,164 --> 00:28:55,085 women and families there and then moving to 780 00:28:55,085 --> 00:28:55,984 Metro DC 781 00:28:56,444 --> 00:28:58,045 and what it was like to have a 782 00:28:58,045 --> 00:29:00,384 baby there. And I thought to myself, 783 00:29:01,164 --> 00:29:04,125 that whole idea of you can have it 784 00:29:04,125 --> 00:29:04,625 all, 785 00:29:05,644 --> 00:29:06,144 bunk. 786 00:29:07,085 --> 00:29:07,585 Yeah. 787 00:29:07,950 --> 00:29:10,849 You know, you said our generation is actually 788 00:29:11,230 --> 00:29:13,950 feeling, what can we do about it? I 789 00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:15,869 would love to hear how you, at some 790 00:29:15,869 --> 00:29:18,529 point, decided to embark on your Hoffman 791 00:29:19,149 --> 00:29:20,529 journey and what 792 00:29:21,069 --> 00:29:22,049 led you there. 793 00:29:22,705 --> 00:29:24,384 When I was at Women to Women, the 794 00:29:24,384 --> 00:29:26,065 the last of the founding mothers and the 795 00:29:26,065 --> 00:29:26,805 sole proprietor, 796 00:29:27,184 --> 00:29:28,164 Marcel Pick, 797 00:29:29,105 --> 00:29:30,945 I don't know how she heard about Hoffman, 798 00:29:30,945 --> 00:29:32,465 but she went and she came back and 799 00:29:32,465 --> 00:29:35,285 she was like, everybody's going. And the business 800 00:29:35,345 --> 00:29:37,765 dissolved before that was possible because 801 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:40,339 at the time that she mentioned it, I 802 00:29:40,339 --> 00:29:41,000 was like, 803 00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:43,539 how am I supposed to pull myself out 804 00:29:43,539 --> 00:29:44,359 of my life 805 00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:45,799 for a week 806 00:29:46,339 --> 00:29:49,220 from work? And how about my family life? 807 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:50,599 Like, it was unfathomable 808 00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:53,140 to me, both the time and the money. 809 00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:55,025 I was like, I just don't see that 810 00:29:55,025 --> 00:29:56,244 that how that happens. 811 00:29:56,785 --> 00:29:59,265 But that's when the seed was planted, and 812 00:29:59,265 --> 00:30:02,884 I honestly referred people to Hoffman for years 813 00:30:03,424 --> 00:30:04,484 before I went 814 00:30:04,865 --> 00:30:07,184 when I would talk to women about their 815 00:30:07,184 --> 00:30:08,085 health challenges 816 00:30:08,464 --> 00:30:08,964 and, 817 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,200 you know, that it was clearly not a 818 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,599 knowledge deficit, that it was that they just 819 00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:17,099 kept bumping into their own behaviors. 820 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,960 I would talk to them about going to 821 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,980 Hoffman. I was like, look, you know 822 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:25,079 what is standing between you and your optimal 823 00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:27,774 wellness and that you're not able to get 824 00:30:27,774 --> 00:30:31,294 yourself there is not an uncommon experience. And 825 00:30:31,294 --> 00:30:31,794 maybe 826 00:30:32,095 --> 00:30:33,875 this deep emotional work 827 00:30:34,335 --> 00:30:35,474 will allow you 828 00:30:35,934 --> 00:30:38,274 to do what you quote, unquote know 829 00:30:38,619 --> 00:30:40,619 is good for you. So, I mean, I 830 00:30:40,619 --> 00:30:41,919 wrote letters of recommendations, 831 00:30:42,299 --> 00:30:44,059 and I would talk to women when they 832 00:30:44,059 --> 00:30:46,399 came back, and I would hear about it. 833 00:30:46,539 --> 00:30:47,679 And it always 834 00:30:48,059 --> 00:30:49,679 was of interest to me. 835 00:30:50,539 --> 00:30:53,279 And then, finally, the nest was empty, 836 00:30:53,684 --> 00:30:54,184 and 837 00:30:54,804 --> 00:30:56,585 I have, you know, my own 838 00:30:57,125 --> 00:31:00,345 challenges of stuckness that I live with. 839 00:31:00,804 --> 00:31:03,125 Did you see yourself in that where there's 840 00:31:03,125 --> 00:31:03,625 something 841 00:31:04,005 --> 00:31:06,849 that's standing in my way that is related 842 00:31:06,849 --> 00:31:09,349 to my own behavior, not the knowledge deficit. 843 00:31:09,809 --> 00:31:10,950 Oh, hell yeah. 844 00:31:11,409 --> 00:31:13,890 Of course. And, you know, tried this and 845 00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:16,369 tried that and read this and wrote that 846 00:31:16,369 --> 00:31:18,210 and, you know, like, did all the things, 847 00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:19,750 and I was finally like, 848 00:31:20,634 --> 00:31:21,775 okay. It's time. 849 00:31:23,515 --> 00:31:23,835 And, 850 00:31:24,794 --> 00:31:26,255 and went and 851 00:31:27,035 --> 00:31:28,794 found it to be one of the most 852 00:31:28,794 --> 00:31:29,294 unbelievable 853 00:31:29,674 --> 00:31:30,174 experiences 854 00:31:30,554 --> 00:31:32,494 of my life in terms of 855 00:31:33,179 --> 00:31:36,139 doing pattern tracing and taking a deep dive 856 00:31:36,139 --> 00:31:39,019 and looking at beliefs and tracing them to 857 00:31:39,019 --> 00:31:39,519 parents. 858 00:31:39,819 --> 00:31:41,599 I read No One is to Blame 859 00:31:42,059 --> 00:31:42,960 by Bob Hoffman 860 00:31:43,659 --> 00:31:46,079 when I first heard about it, and, honestly, 861 00:31:46,299 --> 00:31:48,079 that book carried me 862 00:31:48,505 --> 00:31:51,544 a long way and probably really helped. It's 863 00:31:51,544 --> 00:31:53,164 interesting my dad died 864 00:31:54,184 --> 00:31:56,345 six weeks after I started at Women to 865 00:31:56,345 --> 00:31:59,065 Women, eight weeks after I started at Women 866 00:31:59,065 --> 00:31:59,804 to Women, 867 00:32:00,184 --> 00:32:01,244 not long. 868 00:32:03,070 --> 00:32:04,990 And I wanna say, I guess it must 869 00:32:04,990 --> 00:32:07,150 have been after he passed that I read 870 00:32:07,150 --> 00:32:08,450 no one is to blame. 871 00:32:09,789 --> 00:32:11,250 And I was just like, 872 00:32:11,710 --> 00:32:12,210 oh, 873 00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:13,490 okay. 874 00:32:14,109 --> 00:32:16,894 I get that. I get, like, it's totally 875 00:32:16,954 --> 00:32:19,454 his fault, and it's totally not his fault. 876 00:32:20,075 --> 00:32:22,575 And now I have all these learned behaviors, 877 00:32:22,634 --> 00:32:24,634 and I'm very much like my dad in 878 00:32:24,634 --> 00:32:25,934 many, many, many ways, 879 00:32:26,394 --> 00:32:29,134 some that are positive, some are less positive. 880 00:32:29,355 --> 00:32:29,855 And 881 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,119 was seeing them play out in my own 882 00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:36,179 family with my own children and, you know, 883 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,179 thinking about the generational 884 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:38,980 transference 885 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:39,779 of 886 00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:42,319 hurt and wounds and wanting to do what 887 00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:44,179 I could to minimize 888 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:44,980 that. 889 00:32:45,654 --> 00:32:48,055 And that was two years ago that I 890 00:32:48,055 --> 00:32:50,855 went, and I still refer people almost every 891 00:32:50,855 --> 00:32:51,355 week 892 00:32:51,815 --> 00:32:54,474 when there's clearly, like, a deep 893 00:32:55,174 --> 00:32:55,674 pattern 894 00:32:56,295 --> 00:32:59,194 that women return to that they are just 895 00:32:59,690 --> 00:33:02,250 have yet to have been unable to shake 896 00:33:02,250 --> 00:33:03,470 themselves from, 897 00:33:04,250 --> 00:33:07,369 and or I think that someone will benefit 898 00:33:07,369 --> 00:33:09,289 from getting pulled out of their life so 899 00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:10,970 that they can have time to think about 900 00:33:10,970 --> 00:33:13,230 themselves. Right? Because that's one of the challenges 901 00:33:13,845 --> 00:33:15,304 in my mind for 902 00:33:15,684 --> 00:33:16,184 women 903 00:33:16,644 --> 00:33:19,605 and or women who work and or women 904 00:33:19,605 --> 00:33:22,085 who work and are parents is just like, 905 00:33:22,085 --> 00:33:23,224 where in the day 906 00:33:23,765 --> 00:33:25,384 is there even a moment 907 00:33:26,339 --> 00:33:28,099 to have a thought, to be able to 908 00:33:28,099 --> 00:33:29,559 think this through, to try 909 00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:31,779 and trace it? Where does this come from? 910 00:33:31,779 --> 00:33:33,700 What is this about? How is this playing 911 00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:35,079 out in my life now? 912 00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:37,000 And how can I 913 00:33:37,380 --> 00:33:40,244 transform it? Can I transform it? Sounds like 914 00:33:40,244 --> 00:33:41,224 one of the challenges 915 00:33:41,605 --> 00:33:44,265 of going, but also one of the gifts, 916 00:33:44,724 --> 00:33:45,464 the space. 917 00:33:46,005 --> 00:33:47,144 Oh, right. 918 00:33:47,605 --> 00:33:50,164 I mean, getting pulled out of the day 919 00:33:50,164 --> 00:33:52,529 to day life and the house and the 920 00:33:52,529 --> 00:33:54,609 cooking and the bills and the juggling and 921 00:33:54,609 --> 00:33:56,389 the driving and, like, all of the things 922 00:33:56,929 --> 00:33:58,069 that retreat 923 00:33:58,609 --> 00:33:59,109 environment 924 00:33:59,730 --> 00:34:00,630 is priceless 925 00:34:01,089 --> 00:34:01,909 in my mind. 926 00:34:02,529 --> 00:34:04,369 And to be cared for. Right? Oh my 927 00:34:04,369 --> 00:34:05,809 god. Like, I don't have to prepare a 928 00:34:05,809 --> 00:34:06,884 meal? Like, what? 929 00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:09,625 To be fed and nurtured? 930 00:34:10,244 --> 00:34:12,164 Yeah. I mean, it's also interesting, right, as 931 00:34:12,164 --> 00:34:15,045 a health care practitioner. Right? The things that 932 00:34:15,045 --> 00:34:17,364 people project onto us as being a health 933 00:34:17,364 --> 00:34:18,105 care practitioner. 934 00:34:18,405 --> 00:34:18,905 And 935 00:34:19,699 --> 00:34:22,739 one of the most valuable things for me 936 00:34:22,739 --> 00:34:25,380 about having gone to Hoffman, I am still 937 00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:25,880 in 938 00:34:26,339 --> 00:34:29,239 many of the same patterns, and they are 939 00:34:29,779 --> 00:34:31,859 in some ways the same and in some 940 00:34:31,859 --> 00:34:33,480 ways super different. 941 00:34:34,464 --> 00:34:35,284 And I 942 00:34:35,824 --> 00:34:37,444 have that many more tools 943 00:34:38,545 --> 00:34:41,184 to acknowledge them, work with them, accept them, 944 00:34:41,184 --> 00:34:42,405 transform them. 945 00:34:42,944 --> 00:34:45,824 And one of the most invaluable things for 946 00:34:45,824 --> 00:34:47,444 me about having gone 947 00:34:47,849 --> 00:34:49,070 is being known. 948 00:34:49,530 --> 00:34:51,610 When I talk to patients about my experience 949 00:34:51,610 --> 00:34:53,470 at Hoffman, I talk about how 950 00:34:53,849 --> 00:34:56,410 there is nobody on Earth who knows the 951 00:34:56,410 --> 00:34:57,769 good and the bad and the ugly of 952 00:34:57,769 --> 00:34:59,550 me as well as the teachers. 953 00:35:00,735 --> 00:35:01,474 And that 954 00:35:01,855 --> 00:35:03,954 knowing that having been seen, 955 00:35:04,255 --> 00:35:04,755 being 956 00:35:05,295 --> 00:35:07,155 heard, being held, 957 00:35:07,855 --> 00:35:09,394 still being cared for 958 00:35:09,775 --> 00:35:10,275 as 959 00:35:10,815 --> 00:35:12,115 a care provider 960 00:35:14,309 --> 00:35:15,050 is tremendous 961 00:35:15,590 --> 00:35:16,490 beyond words. 962 00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:17,690 Your 963 00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:21,289 journey, your story that you've shared really 964 00:35:21,590 --> 00:35:22,090 is 965 00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:24,730 a living example of both and. 966 00:35:25,295 --> 00:35:26,515 Part of that was 967 00:35:26,815 --> 00:35:29,375 accepting the both and within you and having 968 00:35:29,375 --> 00:35:32,255 that scene and having it still be worthy 969 00:35:32,255 --> 00:35:32,914 of love. 970 00:35:33,775 --> 00:35:36,175 What has happened for you since then? How 971 00:35:36,175 --> 00:35:37,635 do you see that 972 00:35:38,175 --> 00:35:39,394 in your life now? 973 00:35:40,989 --> 00:35:42,849 The absolution of shame 974 00:35:43,549 --> 00:35:45,009 is no joke 975 00:35:45,469 --> 00:35:46,690 in terms of healing. 976 00:35:47,389 --> 00:35:49,250 You talked about healing through 977 00:35:49,630 --> 00:35:50,130 acknowledging 978 00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:53,089 shame and letting it go. And I'm curious 979 00:35:53,474 --> 00:35:55,815 how your relationship to that has changed 980 00:35:56,275 --> 00:35:58,275 or how you see it in your life 981 00:35:58,275 --> 00:35:58,775 now. 982 00:35:59,155 --> 00:36:00,535 I think self compassion 983 00:36:00,994 --> 00:36:01,494 was 984 00:36:02,195 --> 00:36:02,695 huge, 985 00:36:03,555 --> 00:36:04,375 and kindness 986 00:36:04,755 --> 00:36:05,255 toward 987 00:36:05,555 --> 00:36:06,055 self 988 00:36:06,675 --> 00:36:08,215 is huge for me 989 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:11,079 and is something that is reinforced in my 990 00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:13,079 work with women every day. You know, the 991 00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:15,079 extent to which we are hard on ourselves. 992 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:16,760 And I'm I'm not saying that that's exclusive 993 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,440 to women. I'm just saying that that's who 994 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,519 I spend my days with for the most 995 00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:22,699 part. So that's who I listen to. 996 00:36:23,234 --> 00:36:24,214 Just being 997 00:36:25,554 --> 00:36:27,335 just a little bit gentler 998 00:36:27,795 --> 00:36:30,454 with myself, just being a little bit 999 00:36:30,994 --> 00:36:34,775 kinder, just a little bit softer, and having 1000 00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,219 slightly more ease with myself 1001 00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:39,380 when I find myself patterning 1002 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:40,900 or I find 1003 00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:43,140 hard or uncomfortable 1004 00:36:43,519 --> 00:36:44,019 emotions 1005 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:45,699 coming up, 1006 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,300 hand on heart, 1007 00:36:48,195 --> 00:36:49,255 visioning light, 1008 00:36:49,875 --> 00:36:52,215 and being able to dial into that 1009 00:36:52,675 --> 00:36:53,175 is 1010 00:36:53,474 --> 00:36:56,135 much more a part of my everyday practice 1011 00:36:56,835 --> 00:36:59,655 since Hoffman than before Hoffman, 1012 00:37:00,420 --> 00:37:02,819 not to mention recycling in the shower. One 1013 00:37:02,819 --> 00:37:03,719 of my groupmates 1014 00:37:04,179 --> 00:37:06,359 shared the story of doing that and, like, 1015 00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:08,900 you know, there's, like, the ball, and there's 1016 00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:10,900 these different ways of doing it. Right? And 1017 00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:13,219 I often find myself thinking about it in 1018 00:37:13,219 --> 00:37:15,295 the shower and just, like washing it down 1019 00:37:15,295 --> 00:37:17,795 the drain, which is super satisfying. 1020 00:37:20,574 --> 00:37:22,655 That's a great way to bring it home 1021 00:37:22,655 --> 00:37:24,735 with you. For those listening that haven't taken 1022 00:37:24,735 --> 00:37:27,054 the process or don't know what recycling is, 1023 00:37:27,054 --> 00:37:28,355 it's a brief visualization 1024 00:37:28,735 --> 00:37:29,309 where you 1025 00:37:29,869 --> 00:37:31,789 see one version of how you show up 1026 00:37:31,789 --> 00:37:32,930 in a pattern, 1027 00:37:33,309 --> 00:37:34,910 and then there's kind of like a letting 1028 00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:37,070 that go. And I love the idea of, 1029 00:37:37,070 --> 00:37:39,230 like, washing it down the drain. But then 1030 00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:41,010 you envision it again 1031 00:37:41,484 --> 00:37:44,464 showing up as your best self as your 1032 00:37:44,684 --> 00:37:45,824 spiritual self. 1033 00:37:46,125 --> 00:37:48,545 It truly can shift as you 1034 00:37:48,844 --> 00:37:49,824 show up differently, 1035 00:37:50,445 --> 00:37:51,425 a really powerful 1036 00:37:51,964 --> 00:37:52,464 practice. 1037 00:37:53,244 --> 00:37:55,405 I have another question that might be a 1038 00:37:55,405 --> 00:37:58,739 tricky one. What do you see as or 1039 00:37:58,739 --> 00:38:01,559 hope your legacy of love to be? 1040 00:38:02,340 --> 00:38:04,579 Legacy of love. Like, I guess I'm not 1041 00:38:04,579 --> 00:38:06,360 even sure what does that mean. 1042 00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:07,400 Legacy 1043 00:38:07,860 --> 00:38:11,079 of love. Well, I'm thinking about your impact 1044 00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:11,800 in 1045 00:38:12,655 --> 00:38:14,815 your work, like what it means to a 1046 00:38:14,815 --> 00:38:15,315 woman 1047 00:38:15,615 --> 00:38:16,434 to be 1048 00:38:16,974 --> 00:38:18,035 listened to 1049 00:38:18,494 --> 00:38:18,994 and 1050 00:38:19,615 --> 00:38:21,235 accepted for both and 1051 00:38:22,095 --> 00:38:23,075 your son, 1052 00:38:24,015 --> 00:38:26,914 the places where you touch people. 1053 00:38:28,289 --> 00:38:30,070 Your depth is an invitation 1054 00:38:30,690 --> 00:38:31,190 into 1055 00:38:31,650 --> 00:38:32,710 a deeper place. 1056 00:38:33,090 --> 00:38:35,570 And I don't know if you've considered it, 1057 00:38:35,570 --> 00:38:38,469 but I guess I'm asking you too. Yeah. 1058 00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:40,449 I guess so the things that come to 1059 00:38:40,449 --> 00:38:42,309 my mind, right, wrong, or otherwise, 1060 00:38:42,769 --> 00:38:43,269 are, 1061 00:38:43,994 --> 00:38:46,094 you know, I hope that my children 1062 00:38:46,954 --> 00:38:47,454 are 1063 00:38:47,914 --> 00:38:49,694 a legacy of my love. 1064 00:38:50,074 --> 00:38:53,275 I have a daughter who passed in 2018 1065 00:38:53,275 --> 00:38:55,275 at 15 years old in a car accident, 1066 00:38:55,275 --> 00:38:56,014 and I 1067 00:38:56,394 --> 00:38:58,734 carry her love light forward. 1068 00:38:59,619 --> 00:39:02,280 And that language is I wanna credit Rosemary 1069 00:39:02,339 --> 00:39:04,820 Traumer, who is a very beautiful poet who 1070 00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:06,900 also had a child take his life by 1071 00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:09,539 suicide, and she writes a poem about carrying 1072 00:39:09,539 --> 00:39:11,079 his love light. And so 1073 00:39:11,954 --> 00:39:15,555 I carry Isabel's love light with me and 1074 00:39:15,555 --> 00:39:18,215 carry her legacy in that way. And so 1075 00:39:18,434 --> 00:39:20,215 there are things that I do 1076 00:39:20,914 --> 00:39:23,394 in her honor, and that's sort of a 1077 00:39:23,394 --> 00:39:25,329 running joke in our house. Like, if we 1078 00:39:25,329 --> 00:39:27,250 do something that we know Isabelle would do, 1079 00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:29,170 like watch too much TV or eat too 1080 00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:31,329 much candy, we like to say Isabelle made 1081 00:39:31,329 --> 00:39:33,269 us do it. So there's that. 1082 00:39:35,569 --> 00:39:37,190 And then my son who 1083 00:39:37,569 --> 00:39:41,194 has a deep reverence for the natural world 1084 00:39:41,494 --> 00:39:43,594 and is a deep thinker, 1085 00:39:44,775 --> 00:39:46,635 you know, I hope that he 1086 00:39:47,494 --> 00:39:49,434 lives a life of alignment. 1087 00:39:51,014 --> 00:39:52,474 I guess what I would hope 1088 00:39:53,090 --> 00:39:55,989 that I'm able to do is inspire people 1089 00:39:56,050 --> 00:39:56,710 to live 1090 00:39:57,889 --> 00:39:58,389 aligned 1091 00:39:58,690 --> 00:39:59,190 with 1092 00:40:00,449 --> 00:40:01,510 their souls 1093 00:40:01,809 --> 00:40:05,409 or their authentic self or their divinity or 1094 00:40:05,409 --> 00:40:08,735 whatever word works for people in that place. 1095 00:40:08,735 --> 00:40:10,894 Cause that's really what I do at work 1096 00:40:10,894 --> 00:40:12,114 is try and 1097 00:40:13,295 --> 00:40:13,795 facilitate 1098 00:40:14,175 --> 00:40:16,035 a process of women understanding 1099 00:40:16,494 --> 00:40:20,015 who they really are and what really makes 1100 00:40:20,015 --> 00:40:20,515 them 1101 00:40:21,279 --> 00:40:24,960 feel well and help them identify that and 1102 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,259 then get there. 1103 00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:29,279 And so that happens in the context of 1104 00:40:29,279 --> 00:40:31,440 the clinic. And I think that was really 1105 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,380 a big motivator for writing 1106 00:40:33,864 --> 00:40:36,204 the book that I wrote was so that 1107 00:40:36,744 --> 00:40:37,644 women who 1108 00:40:38,344 --> 00:40:41,945 can't access a practitioner who facilitates that kind 1109 00:40:41,945 --> 00:40:42,445 of 1110 00:40:43,065 --> 00:40:45,864 process, they could have it and they could 1111 00:40:45,864 --> 00:40:46,559 read it, 1112 00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:50,320 and they could consider for themselves that all 1113 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,360 of their selves matter, like mind, body, spirit 1114 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:53,860 matters, 1115 00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:56,480 and that all of the things that they 1116 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:57,619 feel are connected 1117 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:58,660 and that 1118 00:40:59,085 --> 00:41:02,385 being in alignment with self is crucial 1119 00:41:02,764 --> 00:41:05,824 to wellness. And without that alignment, it's not 1120 00:41:06,045 --> 00:41:06,545 actually 1121 00:41:07,164 --> 00:41:07,664 possible 1122 00:41:08,364 --> 00:41:10,545 to be in optimal health. 1123 00:41:10,844 --> 00:41:12,864 Your book, it's the whole woman 1124 00:41:13,260 --> 00:41:14,719 A Guide to Creating Wellness 1125 00:41:15,019 --> 00:41:17,019 for Any Age and Any Stage. We'll put 1126 00:41:17,019 --> 00:41:18,539 that in the show notes. We'll also put 1127 00:41:18,539 --> 00:41:20,699 in the show notes what you mentioned about 1128 00:41:20,699 --> 00:41:21,840 the different programs 1129 00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:23,440 and the Johari's 1130 00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:24,400 window. 1131 00:41:25,194 --> 00:41:26,414 I think it's a really 1132 00:41:26,714 --> 00:41:27,614 great reminder 1133 00:41:28,155 --> 00:41:28,655 about 1134 00:41:29,194 --> 00:41:31,514 allowing you to be a whole human and 1135 00:41:31,514 --> 00:41:33,914 then moving from a place of alignment with 1136 00:41:33,914 --> 00:41:37,034 that. It's an incredible legacy, and I'm really 1137 00:41:37,034 --> 00:41:38,094 glad that you 1138 00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:40,840 exist, that you're doing the work that you 1139 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,840 do, the mothering that you do, that you're 1140 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,480 being the beautiful woman that you are. And 1141 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,800 thank you so much for being here with 1142 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:48,460 me today. 1143 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,539 Thank you for your discernment 1144 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:51,420 of 1145 00:41:52,545 --> 00:41:53,045 extracting 1146 00:41:54,065 --> 00:41:56,385 the legacy, because I don't know that I 1147 00:41:56,385 --> 00:41:59,605 would have been able to see or articulate 1148 00:41:59,744 --> 00:42:01,905 it that way, and that is a gift 1149 00:42:01,905 --> 00:42:03,284 to me. Thank you, Sadie. 1150 00:42:03,585 --> 00:42:06,000 Yes. Absolutely. Thank you so much. 1151 00:42:17,355 --> 00:42:19,534 Thank you for listening to the Hoffman podcast. 1152 00:42:19,914 --> 00:42:22,074 My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO 1153 00:42:22,074 --> 00:42:24,954 of the Hoffman Institute Foundation and a Hoffman 1154 00:42:24,954 --> 00:42:27,675 teacher. Our mission is to provide greater access 1155 00:42:27,675 --> 00:42:30,074 to the wisdom and power of love within 1156 00:42:30,074 --> 00:42:31,775 ourselves, in our relationships, 1157 00:42:32,289 --> 00:42:33,269 and in the world. 1158 00:42:33,569 --> 00:42:35,909 To learn more or to support our mission, 1159 00:42:35,969 --> 00:42:39,269 we invite you to visit hoffmaninstitute.org.