1 00:00:02,319 --> 00:00:04,480 The process does get you to a deeper 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,080 point with the people you're with. I mean, 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,700 the people you went through in the process, 4 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:09,359 in a way, it's like going through boot 5 00:00:09,359 --> 00:00:12,740 camp because you're going through something that's demanding 6 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:15,615 and meaningful at the same time. It's a 7 00:00:15,775 --> 00:00:16,754 purposeful struggle 8 00:00:17,135 --> 00:00:17,875 that's worthwhile. 9 00:00:19,454 --> 00:00:22,175 Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and 10 00:00:22,175 --> 00:00:25,314 this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius. 11 00:00:26,015 --> 00:00:27,954 It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute, 12 00:00:28,254 --> 00:00:30,994 and it's stories and anecdotes 13 00:00:31,750 --> 00:00:33,130 and people we interview 14 00:00:33,590 --> 00:00:36,149 about their life post process and how it 15 00:00:36,149 --> 00:00:38,810 lives in the world radiating love. 16 00:00:47,604 --> 00:00:50,484 Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. Mike 17 00:00:50,484 --> 00:00:53,045 DePaidi is with me. Welcome, Mike. Hey. Glad 18 00:00:53,045 --> 00:00:55,064 to be here, Joe. How you feeling? 19 00:00:55,445 --> 00:00:57,284 I'm feeling pretty good today. Thank you very 20 00:00:57,284 --> 00:00:57,784 much. 21 00:00:58,244 --> 00:01:01,045 You are just a few hours from the 22 00:01:01,045 --> 00:01:03,990 process, aren't you? Well, I'm actually yeah. I'm 23 00:01:03,990 --> 00:01:05,450 a couple hours from the process, 24 00:01:05,829 --> 00:01:06,329 vocationally, 25 00:01:06,630 --> 00:01:09,049 but I did the process in 2005, 26 00:01:09,510 --> 00:01:10,650 a long time ago. 27 00:01:11,189 --> 00:01:12,890 However, it's been kept alive 28 00:01:13,430 --> 00:01:14,810 over the years because 29 00:01:15,109 --> 00:01:17,430 I've been lucky enough to do a annual 30 00:01:17,430 --> 00:01:18,284 fishing trip 31 00:01:18,765 --> 00:01:21,005 with eight guys that have all been on 32 00:01:21,005 --> 00:01:21,665 the process. 33 00:01:21,965 --> 00:01:23,165 Some of the eight have been we've been 34 00:01:23,165 --> 00:01:24,625 together now for twenty years. 35 00:01:25,085 --> 00:01:27,665 And you're on that trip, and Rasingrassio 36 00:01:28,045 --> 00:01:29,025 is on that trip. 37 00:01:29,405 --> 00:01:31,344 And so through that trip, 38 00:01:31,769 --> 00:01:32,269 every 39 00:01:32,729 --> 00:01:35,469 year, we practice a lot of the techniques 40 00:01:35,530 --> 00:01:37,129 in the in the process as part of 41 00:01:37,129 --> 00:01:39,609 the fishing trip, and it's kept me very 42 00:01:39,609 --> 00:01:41,069 much, in contact 43 00:01:41,450 --> 00:01:42,349 with the process. 44 00:01:42,810 --> 00:01:44,170 And I have to say that over all 45 00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:46,810 these years that it's, resonated at a deeper 46 00:01:46,810 --> 00:01:49,024 and deeper level with me because of that. 47 00:01:49,024 --> 00:01:51,265 It's a pretty unique thing. And you and 48 00:01:51,265 --> 00:01:52,484 I talking recently 49 00:01:53,104 --> 00:01:53,604 about 50 00:01:54,704 --> 00:01:56,564 Raz and his passing, 51 00:01:57,185 --> 00:01:59,584 it really made me wanna reach out and 52 00:01:59,584 --> 00:02:02,780 connect with you around having a conversation on 53 00:02:02,780 --> 00:02:05,819 this podcast, so I'm grateful. Thank you. Likewise. 54 00:02:05,819 --> 00:02:08,219 Thank you. By the way, it's dubbed Q 55 00:02:08,219 --> 00:02:11,520 fish. For those that are interested, it's Quadrinity 56 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:14,319 Fishing Trip. Q is for Quadrinity. 57 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:16,875 Right? Well, it actually came from the fact 58 00:02:16,875 --> 00:02:18,175 that there's q twos. 59 00:02:18,875 --> 00:02:20,715 So there's a q two, then there's gonna 60 00:02:20,715 --> 00:02:21,694 be a cute fish. 61 00:02:22,075 --> 00:02:23,615 Where it started is actually, 62 00:02:24,155 --> 00:02:24,974 my father 63 00:02:25,435 --> 00:02:28,314 put together a father son fishing trip for 64 00:02:28,314 --> 00:02:29,375 thirty five years. 65 00:02:30,020 --> 00:02:32,819 And, he had gotten his eighties, and he 66 00:02:32,819 --> 00:02:34,439 had always organized the trip. 67 00:02:34,819 --> 00:02:36,199 Same week in June, 68 00:02:36,739 --> 00:02:39,860 same crappy cabin, same place, same fishing guys, 69 00:02:39,860 --> 00:02:40,360 everything 70 00:02:40,739 --> 00:02:41,560 over the years. 71 00:02:41,944 --> 00:02:42,985 And over that time, 72 00:02:43,385 --> 00:02:45,465 the week in Montana and Idaho that we 73 00:02:45,465 --> 00:02:46,205 spent together 74 00:02:46,585 --> 00:02:48,745 kinda worked time for me, whereas I'm up 75 00:02:48,745 --> 00:02:50,585 in the stream. I thought about, you know, 76 00:02:50,585 --> 00:02:53,245 my life and thought about, you know, girlfriends 77 00:02:53,465 --> 00:02:55,625 and jobs and things that had happened in 78 00:02:55,625 --> 00:02:57,269 my life. And then suddenly, 79 00:02:57,810 --> 00:03:00,389 he said, I'm done. I said, you're done. 80 00:03:00,449 --> 00:03:01,489 So what do you mean you're done? Because 81 00:03:01,489 --> 00:03:02,689 I'm done. I don't I I have had 82 00:03:02,689 --> 00:03:04,610 a wonderful time doing this, but I don't 83 00:03:04,610 --> 00:03:06,629 feel comfortable standing up in the boat anymore. 84 00:03:06,930 --> 00:03:08,849 That happened about two years before I went 85 00:03:08,849 --> 00:03:10,310 to the process. And so 86 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:11,430 in my process, 87 00:03:12,425 --> 00:03:14,824 couple of guys, we became very friendly in 88 00:03:14,824 --> 00:03:17,145 the process, and I was explaining this and 89 00:03:17,145 --> 00:03:18,604 a loss for me of this. 90 00:03:19,064 --> 00:03:21,544 And they said, well, we wanna go. I 91 00:03:21,544 --> 00:03:23,805 said, well, do you guys fly fish? 92 00:03:24,185 --> 00:03:25,324 They said, no. 93 00:03:26,860 --> 00:03:27,299 And, 94 00:03:27,739 --> 00:03:29,259 we've now been doing it for twenty one 95 00:03:29,259 --> 00:03:30,000 years together, 96 00:03:30,459 --> 00:03:30,860 and, 97 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:34,060 we've continued this into another father son trip 98 00:03:34,060 --> 00:03:34,639 as well. 99 00:03:35,099 --> 00:03:38,060 And so now it's been fifty some odd 100 00:03:38,060 --> 00:03:39,525 years I've been doing this, 101 00:03:39,924 --> 00:03:41,844 And there's something about that tradition, but there's 102 00:03:41,844 --> 00:03:43,784 also something about the Q fish trip. 103 00:03:44,084 --> 00:03:46,664 It's a very unusual fishing trip where 104 00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:48,985 we spend the first day or two, 105 00:03:49,525 --> 00:03:51,064 everybody gets an hour 106 00:03:51,444 --> 00:03:53,384 where they get to check-in with a group. 107 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,840 Just about them, they spend a whole hour 108 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,520 talking about what's happened in their life over 109 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,199 the last year. And some of these guys 110 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:00,560 that I honestly once a year, I see 111 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,480 them on a fishing trip. And so it's 112 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:03,300 been unique 113 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:04,900 experience for me 114 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,439 to experience somebody at such an intimate and 115 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:08,260 deep level 116 00:04:08,685 --> 00:04:10,944 once a year over twenty one years. 117 00:04:11,485 --> 00:04:12,944 And much like Hoffman, 118 00:04:13,405 --> 00:04:15,265 people are working on various things. 119 00:04:15,724 --> 00:04:18,524 After twenty one years, quite frankly, people are 120 00:04:18,524 --> 00:04:20,064 still working on the same things. 121 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,240 But, you know, some people have resolved things. 122 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,079 Some people are still working on things, whether 123 00:04:25,079 --> 00:04:26,600 it be in their marriage, their life, or 124 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,360 their job. You know, I always felt like 125 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,199 it was just it was such a special 126 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:31,579 thing to have that connection, 127 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,540 with men. Usually, it doesn't happen. 128 00:04:34,875 --> 00:04:36,654 And on a fishing trip, nonetheless, 129 00:04:37,435 --> 00:04:39,115 or actually, we do this check-in, then we 130 00:04:39,115 --> 00:04:41,514 actually do something else interesting. We actually do 131 00:04:41,514 --> 00:04:44,314 morning meditation in a group. I'm thinking, what 132 00:04:44,475 --> 00:04:46,314 who goes on a fishing trip and does 133 00:04:46,314 --> 00:04:47,214 a morning meditation? 134 00:04:47,819 --> 00:04:50,060 But it's fantastic, and so it's meant a 135 00:04:50,060 --> 00:04:51,899 lot to me. I've taken over from my 136 00:04:51,899 --> 00:04:54,139 dad who's organizing the trip. And so I 137 00:04:54,139 --> 00:04:55,439 feel particularly lucky 138 00:04:55,899 --> 00:04:57,740 to have gotten on you guys, both you 139 00:04:57,740 --> 00:05:00,254 guys, at really intimate level. 140 00:05:00,735 --> 00:05:02,814 Yeah. And RAS has been on from nearly 141 00:05:02,814 --> 00:05:04,814 the beginning. Right? I think RAS came on 142 00:05:04,814 --> 00:05:05,955 in 2009 143 00:05:06,334 --> 00:05:08,814 or so, and we started in 2005, 144 00:05:08,814 --> 00:05:09,714 2006. 145 00:05:09,935 --> 00:05:11,395 I made RAS through the process. 146 00:05:11,935 --> 00:05:13,935 Turns out I ran a company called Kimpton 147 00:05:13,935 --> 00:05:15,795 Hotels, and this guy, Bill Kimpton 148 00:05:16,310 --> 00:05:17,990 and Raz were were friends. I think Bill 149 00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:19,689 Kimpton was on the board of Hoffman. 150 00:05:20,069 --> 00:05:22,250 Raz kinda took a particular interest in me, 151 00:05:22,550 --> 00:05:24,470 and we got to know each other. And, 152 00:05:24,710 --> 00:05:25,990 we had a lunch. He knew about this 153 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:27,830 fishing trip that I had, and he had 154 00:05:27,830 --> 00:05:29,350 mentioned that he thought it was really cool 155 00:05:29,350 --> 00:05:30,790 and might wanna come. We had a lunch 156 00:05:30,790 --> 00:05:32,115 and, oh my god, he took us so 157 00:05:32,115 --> 00:05:33,735 serious. I think he really wants to come. 158 00:05:33,954 --> 00:05:36,355 And so he came, and I think it 159 00:05:36,355 --> 00:05:38,375 had a lot of a lot of, depth 160 00:05:38,754 --> 00:05:41,154 and texture to our fishing trip. You know, 161 00:05:41,154 --> 00:05:42,214 he's just a really 162 00:05:42,915 --> 00:05:44,134 wise, thoughtful, 163 00:05:44,995 --> 00:05:46,294 experienced guy, 164 00:05:46,849 --> 00:05:49,329 ten years older than I was. Also helpful 165 00:05:49,329 --> 00:05:51,569 to see somebody kind of age and how 166 00:05:51,569 --> 00:05:52,930 they handle that and how they handle it 167 00:05:52,930 --> 00:05:54,610 with either grace or they don't have it 168 00:05:54,610 --> 00:05:56,289 with grace. We had another guy in the 169 00:05:56,289 --> 00:05:58,289 trip named David Bork who was ten years 170 00:05:58,289 --> 00:05:59,509 older than Razz, 171 00:06:00,289 --> 00:06:02,725 and he passed two years ago. He was 172 00:06:02,725 --> 00:06:04,264 the the group truth teller. 173 00:06:04,725 --> 00:06:06,404 When you were doing your check-in, he's the 174 00:06:06,404 --> 00:06:08,105 guy that called you on your shit. 175 00:06:09,045 --> 00:06:10,324 You still working on that? What are you 176 00:06:10,324 --> 00:06:10,824 doing? 177 00:06:12,085 --> 00:06:14,805 And, to have that is, it was really 178 00:06:14,805 --> 00:06:16,720 a gift. So the so the Q fish 179 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,020 thing has been very 180 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:19,860 meaningful to me 181 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:22,639 and gets more meaningful every year. Really a 182 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:24,740 loss now that Razz has gone. Yeah. 183 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,360 What is it like for you to have 184 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,240 known Razz so intimately through these years on 185 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,060 this experience 186 00:06:31,865 --> 00:06:33,725 and then to hear of his passing? 187 00:06:34,345 --> 00:06:35,705 Well, you know, I had a little bit 188 00:06:35,705 --> 00:06:38,105 of forewarning of it because, we had been 189 00:06:38,105 --> 00:06:40,185 fishing together, and I saw I saw him 190 00:06:40,185 --> 00:06:41,865 decline a little bit. I didn't think it 191 00:06:41,865 --> 00:06:43,004 would happen so quickly, 192 00:06:43,305 --> 00:06:45,399 but, obviously, it was very shocking. But I 193 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:47,959 felt sad but grateful that I had known 194 00:06:47,959 --> 00:06:49,639 such a person that had been influential in 195 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:51,560 so many people's life to to have had 196 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,879 the honor and privilege to know him at 197 00:06:53,879 --> 00:06:56,680 such an intimate level. And what's interesting about 198 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,814 Raz is that, much like all of us, 199 00:06:58,894 --> 00:07:01,214 is advanced and has evolved as he was. 200 00:07:01,214 --> 00:07:02,735 He's still working on some of the same 201 00:07:02,735 --> 00:07:03,235 stuff 202 00:07:04,175 --> 00:07:06,035 every year. Here we go again. 203 00:07:06,415 --> 00:07:08,495 And that, I think, kinda gave permission to 204 00:07:08,495 --> 00:07:10,355 everybody to be really human, 205 00:07:10,975 --> 00:07:12,814 because, you know, if Raz is still working 206 00:07:12,814 --> 00:07:13,555 on stuff, 207 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:16,329 how about the rest of us? It's okay. 208 00:07:16,949 --> 00:07:18,970 I love that Raz showed up authentically, 209 00:07:19,829 --> 00:07:22,709 which allow and gave permission to everyone else 210 00:07:22,709 --> 00:07:24,889 to continue working on it. 211 00:07:25,269 --> 00:07:26,409 What is it about 212 00:07:26,709 --> 00:07:27,689 life that 213 00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:29,529 has us not 214 00:07:30,225 --> 00:07:31,925 resolving things necessarily, 215 00:07:33,024 --> 00:07:35,584 but kind of still working on the same 216 00:07:35,584 --> 00:07:37,504 stuff. Is that just the way it is? 217 00:07:37,504 --> 00:07:39,185 You know, that's the nature of the beast, 218 00:07:39,185 --> 00:07:41,264 so to speak? I think the bigger life 219 00:07:41,264 --> 00:07:43,345 issues are things that you may be working 220 00:07:43,345 --> 00:07:45,740 on for a long time. Again, nothing wrong 221 00:07:45,740 --> 00:07:46,879 with it. The the core 222 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:50,139 issue in your life might be something that 223 00:07:50,139 --> 00:07:51,980 takes your whole life to work out. It 224 00:07:51,980 --> 00:07:53,740 might be graceful to know. It might be 225 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:55,500 exactly what you need to come to some 226 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:56,319 greater realization. 227 00:07:56,620 --> 00:07:57,900 I don't think you can judge it. It's 228 00:07:57,900 --> 00:07:58,634 just what it is. 229 00:07:59,194 --> 00:08:01,535 You talked about the sharing and the meditation, 230 00:08:02,154 --> 00:08:04,335 but why do you think fishing in particular 231 00:08:04,555 --> 00:08:06,415 and fly fishing in particular 232 00:08:07,035 --> 00:08:08,495 seems like a perfect 233 00:08:08,875 --> 00:08:09,375 gathering 234 00:08:09,995 --> 00:08:12,360 activity for this kind of thing? Well, you 235 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:13,740 know, I think men 236 00:08:14,279 --> 00:08:16,439 need something to do. Take the day to 237 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:18,279 go golfing, take the day to go fly 238 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:18,779 fishing. 239 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,580 And fly fishing is perfect because it's outside, 240 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,180 and it's in nature, and it's very zenning. 241 00:08:25,454 --> 00:08:27,375 I mean, when you're fly fishing, you might 242 00:08:27,375 --> 00:08:29,214 be lucky if you catch one or two 243 00:08:29,214 --> 00:08:30,735 fish a day. And by the way, just 244 00:08:30,735 --> 00:08:32,254 for the record, I shouldn't say this. I 245 00:08:32,254 --> 00:08:33,954 don't think rads are a car fish 246 00:08:35,054 --> 00:08:37,534 or one or two because it really wasn't 247 00:08:37,534 --> 00:08:39,590 about the fly fishing. But when you're on 248 00:08:39,590 --> 00:08:41,269 that stream and you're out there and you're 249 00:08:41,269 --> 00:08:42,250 spending hours 250 00:08:42,950 --> 00:08:44,970 casting and looking at the water 251 00:08:45,429 --> 00:08:47,590 and kind of taking in the scenery, you're 252 00:08:47,590 --> 00:08:50,085 kinda getting out of your normal daily life, 253 00:08:50,565 --> 00:08:52,245 and you're maybe with somebody else, you know, 254 00:08:52,245 --> 00:08:54,245 with a guide. And what's interesting is these 255 00:08:54,245 --> 00:08:56,804 guides. I had one guy, Smitty, been with 256 00:08:56,804 --> 00:08:59,605 us for fifty years. And the guides were 257 00:08:59,605 --> 00:09:01,205 the most interesting guy. I said they live 258 00:09:01,205 --> 00:09:03,125 out, you know, out in the wilderness pretty 259 00:09:03,125 --> 00:09:04,904 much. This is what they do. 260 00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:06,830 It's not who we come in contact with 261 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:09,149 every day, and they're very interested in this 262 00:09:09,149 --> 00:09:10,750 whole Q fish thing. Like, who the hell 263 00:09:10,750 --> 00:09:11,570 are you guys? 264 00:09:12,509 --> 00:09:13,970 We always get the guys 265 00:09:14,509 --> 00:09:16,210 involved in some kind of conversation. 266 00:09:17,149 --> 00:09:19,309 That was a very Hoffman esque conversation. I 267 00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:21,105 think they really liked it. They weren't quite 268 00:09:21,105 --> 00:09:22,625 sure what to do with it, but they 269 00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:24,225 liked it. So it was kinda added to 270 00:09:24,225 --> 00:09:27,504 the fun. Why is men gathering? You mentioned 271 00:09:27,504 --> 00:09:30,945 men, and you talked about activities. But beyond 272 00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:31,684 the activities, 273 00:09:32,144 --> 00:09:34,559 what do you think is transpiring over the 274 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,659 course of those four or five days 275 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:40,159 between the men as they engage in this 276 00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:40,659 experience? 277 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,440 I think that the Hoffman thing gives everybody 278 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,940 permission to be a little more vulnerable and 279 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,779 to connect at a deeper level. 280 00:09:48,134 --> 00:09:49,894 And I think once you kinda step into 281 00:09:49,894 --> 00:09:51,675 that and people are trusting, 282 00:09:52,054 --> 00:09:54,075 it's a high trust level as well, 283 00:09:54,615 --> 00:09:56,394 then I think people are more willing 284 00:09:57,254 --> 00:10:00,394 to share things that might be vulnerable, 285 00:10:00,774 --> 00:10:02,615 especially we get into the sharing and people 286 00:10:02,615 --> 00:10:03,835 are talking about, hey. 287 00:10:04,509 --> 00:10:06,350 You know, maybe something happened on my marriage 288 00:10:06,350 --> 00:10:08,669 or something's not working on my job or 289 00:10:08,909 --> 00:10:11,149 you know, people don't wanna admit that. But 290 00:10:11,149 --> 00:10:14,190 oddly enough, it's the vulnerability that connects us. 291 00:10:14,190 --> 00:10:15,950 It's not the perfect you know, that's like 292 00:10:15,950 --> 00:10:16,450 Teflon. 293 00:10:16,835 --> 00:10:19,634 But when people get vulnerable, then people suddenly 294 00:10:19,634 --> 00:10:21,115 open up to them. And the only thing 295 00:10:21,115 --> 00:10:22,674 I learned from Hoffman, I remember going 296 00:10:23,554 --> 00:10:26,054 it's kinda funny. So I went to Hoffman 297 00:10:26,115 --> 00:10:28,595 because this guy, Bill Kimpton, came CEO of 298 00:10:28,595 --> 00:10:29,654 this company, Kimpton, 299 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,000 who had died couple years before I became 300 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:32,500 CEO. 301 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,139 He was really involved with Hoffman. 302 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,919 The legacy of the company was we really 303 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:40,559 wanted to excel in customer satisfaction. And the 304 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,000 way we thought to do that was to 305 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,759 connect deeply with our customers. And I thought, 306 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:45,039 well, how the hell are we gonna do 307 00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:47,794 that? So we thought of ways to connect 308 00:10:47,794 --> 00:10:49,154 with the customers. We thought the best way 309 00:10:49,154 --> 00:10:50,434 to do that is if we got our 310 00:10:50,434 --> 00:10:50,934 employees 311 00:10:51,634 --> 00:10:53,495 to more deeply connect with themselves, 312 00:10:54,274 --> 00:10:56,434 that ultimately, they would connect at a deeper 313 00:10:56,434 --> 00:10:58,855 and more authentic level with their teammates, 314 00:10:59,269 --> 00:11:01,190 people that work for them, and ultimately their 315 00:11:01,190 --> 00:11:01,690 customers. 316 00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:03,750 And so we spent a lot of time 317 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:06,009 and money training people on the Enneagram 318 00:11:06,629 --> 00:11:08,070 as a way to kinda gain what we 319 00:11:08,070 --> 00:11:10,710 call self insight. And for certain people, there 320 00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:13,190 is an advanced course in self insight, which 321 00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:15,065 was Hoffman. And we sent a number of 322 00:11:15,065 --> 00:11:17,384 people to Hoffman, but they had to wanna 323 00:11:17,384 --> 00:11:19,705 do it. By the way, the Enneagram training 324 00:11:19,705 --> 00:11:22,904 was ten hours with a personal Enneagram coach 325 00:11:22,904 --> 00:11:25,065 one on one. It's a major investment by 326 00:11:25,065 --> 00:11:27,144 the company, and it was it was private. 327 00:11:27,144 --> 00:11:28,799 We didn't ever get the results of it. 328 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:31,600 The service model for the company was care. 329 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,759 It wasn't service. How do we get our 330 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:35,600 employees to care? Well, we had to care 331 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,519 for them. And the way we cared for 332 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:40,320 them was helping them develop more fully as 333 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:41,839 a human being. And we do this through 334 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:44,004 the Enneagram. We do that through Hoffman. So 335 00:11:44,004 --> 00:11:45,384 anyway, when I became CEO, 336 00:11:45,924 --> 00:11:47,125 somebody said to me and said, well, you 337 00:11:47,125 --> 00:11:48,804 ought to do the Hoffman process. I said, 338 00:11:48,804 --> 00:11:50,644 well, yeah. Sure. I I'm into self development. 339 00:11:50,644 --> 00:11:52,004 I'll do the Hoffman process. I didn't know 340 00:11:52,004 --> 00:11:53,684 what it was. And so I get all 341 00:11:53,684 --> 00:11:56,184 the paperwork, and I'm showing it all out. 342 00:11:56,404 --> 00:11:58,584 And I'm thinking, this is, like, kinda serious. 343 00:11:59,039 --> 00:12:00,720 I I I'm not really sure I should 344 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,279 do this. And so I call up Hoffman, 345 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:04,879 and I get somebody on the phone. I 346 00:12:04,879 --> 00:12:06,639 say, hey. You know, I'm coming in a 347 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:09,120 couple weeks. I'm filling out paperwork, and I 348 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,480 I had kind of a leave it to 349 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,799 Beaver kinda childhood. I'm I'm not really sure 350 00:12:12,799 --> 00:12:14,475 I should come. And the woman on the 351 00:12:14,475 --> 00:12:16,955 other end says she goes, I see. Tell 352 00:12:16,955 --> 00:12:18,715 me something. I said, well, she goes, do 353 00:12:18,715 --> 00:12:19,455 you have parents? 354 00:12:20,235 --> 00:12:21,674 I said, yes. She goes, you need to 355 00:12:21,674 --> 00:12:22,174 come. 356 00:12:22,715 --> 00:12:25,035 And, so I came, and I'm I remember 357 00:12:25,035 --> 00:12:27,340 I'm sitting around that first day. There's a 358 00:12:27,340 --> 00:12:30,080 big u shaped. Everybody's sitting around 41 people. 359 00:12:30,379 --> 00:12:31,980 Everybody's kinda saying, you know, give me a 360 00:12:31,980 --> 00:12:32,480 word 361 00:12:32,779 --> 00:12:34,139 of of how you feel right now. I'm 362 00:12:34,139 --> 00:12:35,200 just shut down, 363 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:36,240 hopeful, 364 00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:39,259 excited, scared, where it might be. And I'm 365 00:12:39,259 --> 00:12:39,759 thinking, 366 00:12:40,105 --> 00:12:41,384 I don't know what I'm doing here. I 367 00:12:41,384 --> 00:12:42,585 don't know. I I don't have anything to 368 00:12:42,585 --> 00:12:43,725 come with these people. 369 00:12:44,105 --> 00:12:46,664 But what I learned over a full week 370 00:12:46,664 --> 00:12:47,884 of dealing with everybody 371 00:12:48,585 --> 00:12:51,085 is after learning about everybody's struggles, 372 00:12:51,625 --> 00:12:52,684 everybody's vulnerabilities, 373 00:12:53,065 --> 00:12:54,125 everybody's humanness, 374 00:12:54,825 --> 00:12:56,879 you love them all. I love them all. 375 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:58,320 I may not wanna be best friends with 376 00:12:58,320 --> 00:12:59,779 all of them, but I love them all. 377 00:12:59,919 --> 00:13:01,839 And so the big learning for me was, 378 00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:02,899 one, I'm lovable. 379 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:04,019 But secondly, 380 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:06,799 if I just knew people at a deeper 381 00:13:06,799 --> 00:13:08,794 level, I'd love them all. I mean, I 382 00:13:08,794 --> 00:13:09,914 wanna hang out with them all the time, 383 00:13:09,914 --> 00:13:11,595 but I'd love them all. It was a 384 00:13:11,595 --> 00:13:14,334 big learning for me. And in loving them 385 00:13:14,634 --> 00:13:17,534 and seeing and feeling that love for them, 386 00:13:17,754 --> 00:13:18,894 what did that do? 387 00:13:19,355 --> 00:13:21,274 I mean, it's easier to love yourself if 388 00:13:21,274 --> 00:13:22,954 you think how easy it is to love 389 00:13:22,954 --> 00:13:25,610 others other people. Because we you're loving them 390 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:26,910 for all their imperfections, 391 00:13:27,610 --> 00:13:29,790 all their struggles, all the crap, 392 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:31,850 and that's why you love them. It's like 393 00:13:31,850 --> 00:13:33,930 the the that bumper sticker, I love New 394 00:13:33,930 --> 00:13:35,690 York. And say I like New York. You 395 00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:37,710 might hate it, but you might love it, 396 00:13:38,825 --> 00:13:40,125 and all the imperfections. 397 00:13:41,065 --> 00:13:42,745 And I I think that's that for me 398 00:13:42,745 --> 00:13:44,925 was a was a big learning of Hoffman. 399 00:13:45,225 --> 00:13:47,065 And you did it when it was eight 400 00:13:47,065 --> 00:13:49,725 days, and you were at White Sulphur Springs. 401 00:13:50,539 --> 00:13:52,860 You really connected with a bunch of guys 402 00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:55,659 there, which was the origin of the fishing 403 00:13:55,659 --> 00:13:56,159 trip. 404 00:13:56,620 --> 00:13:58,459 What was that like to find that kind 405 00:13:58,459 --> 00:14:00,620 of connection with people on such a deeper 406 00:14:00,620 --> 00:14:03,439 level? I think it was very affirming 407 00:14:03,819 --> 00:14:06,000 that we all could share in the process 408 00:14:06,274 --> 00:14:08,215 and then connected it at a deeper level. 409 00:14:08,355 --> 00:14:10,434 And the process does get you to a 410 00:14:10,434 --> 00:14:12,434 deeper point with the people you're with. I 411 00:14:12,434 --> 00:14:13,634 mean, the people you went through in the 412 00:14:13,634 --> 00:14:15,554 process, in a way, it's like going through 413 00:14:15,554 --> 00:14:18,134 boot camp because you're going through something 414 00:14:18,514 --> 00:14:19,414 that's demanding 415 00:14:20,274 --> 00:14:22,889 and meaningful at the same time. It's a 416 00:14:22,889 --> 00:14:24,029 purposeful struggle 417 00:14:24,409 --> 00:14:25,149 that's worthwhile. 418 00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:26,829 Did you bring 419 00:14:27,289 --> 00:14:29,789 some of the insights? Like, how did 420 00:14:30,329 --> 00:14:32,909 the process, which is such a personal thing, 421 00:14:33,529 --> 00:14:34,424 how did that 422 00:14:34,825 --> 00:14:37,625 return to work? And were you able to 423 00:14:37,625 --> 00:14:38,924 integrate? And 424 00:14:39,384 --> 00:14:41,804 I'm curious about the professional angle 425 00:14:42,184 --> 00:14:44,125 of this deep inner work. 426 00:14:44,504 --> 00:14:45,784 I think the best thing you can do 427 00:14:45,784 --> 00:14:46,684 as a leader, 428 00:14:47,019 --> 00:14:49,279 best thing you can do as a spouse, 429 00:14:49,659 --> 00:14:50,639 as a father, 430 00:14:51,339 --> 00:14:53,740 as a brother, cousin, uncle, is to be 431 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:55,919 the best version of yourself you can be. 432 00:14:56,299 --> 00:14:58,059 And so I think what Hoffman allows you 433 00:14:58,059 --> 00:15:00,220 to do is get more in touch with 434 00:15:00,220 --> 00:15:01,679 that best version of yourself. 435 00:15:02,355 --> 00:15:04,034 And, then that's really what we're trying to 436 00:15:04,034 --> 00:15:06,615 do at Kimpton. We're trying to help people 437 00:15:06,674 --> 00:15:09,794 become more fully who they really are. By 438 00:15:09,794 --> 00:15:11,634 the way, in a corporate setting, when you're 439 00:15:11,634 --> 00:15:12,995 in touch with who you really are, it 440 00:15:12,995 --> 00:15:14,789 may not win the day because it may 441 00:15:14,789 --> 00:15:15,909 not be the right thing. You may not 442 00:15:15,909 --> 00:15:17,429 be bringing the right thing to the job, 443 00:15:17,429 --> 00:15:19,830 but being someone you're not definitely won't win 444 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:21,669 the day. And so we were really helping 445 00:15:21,669 --> 00:15:23,509 people become more of who they are. If 446 00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:25,750 I was gonna give advice to young people, 447 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:27,590 I'd say, figure out who the hell you 448 00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:29,210 are and be that. 449 00:15:29,669 --> 00:15:30,894 You know, spend the first part of your 450 00:15:30,894 --> 00:15:32,754 life figuring out who the hell you are, 451 00:15:32,975 --> 00:15:35,695 and then fully fully step into it. And 452 00:15:35,695 --> 00:15:37,615 why is that feel so important? I feel 453 00:15:37,615 --> 00:15:40,274 the emphatic nature of what you're saying there. 454 00:15:40,415 --> 00:15:42,195 I think we're all kind of given 455 00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:45,509 a unique nature and kind of a unique 456 00:15:45,809 --> 00:15:46,789 role in the world. 457 00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:49,409 It's kinda like the old Joseph Campbell hero's 458 00:15:49,409 --> 00:15:49,909 journey. 459 00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:52,610 You hear the unique call. It's just to 460 00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:53,110 you, 461 00:15:53,649 --> 00:15:55,590 and you get it when you're young, hopefully, 462 00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:58,174 and it's a unique call to you. If 463 00:15:58,174 --> 00:16:00,174 you rise back home, then you start the 464 00:16:00,174 --> 00:16:02,334 hero's journey. And part of that hero's journey, 465 00:16:02,334 --> 00:16:04,014 let's just take it to Hoffman so that 466 00:16:04,014 --> 00:16:05,375 you get the unique call to go to 467 00:16:05,375 --> 00:16:07,534 Hoffman. But part of the hero's journey is 468 00:16:07,534 --> 00:16:09,214 when you go into the into the forest, 469 00:16:09,214 --> 00:16:10,815 because you're called to the forest because that's 470 00:16:10,815 --> 00:16:11,909 where the treasure is. 471 00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:14,149 You don't go where the well one path 472 00:16:14,149 --> 00:16:16,629 is. You go where the scariest part of 473 00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:17,750 the path is, but it's the part of 474 00:16:17,750 --> 00:16:20,629 the path that you're called to. That's the 475 00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:22,309 part you have to enter. And now you're 476 00:16:22,309 --> 00:16:24,309 in Hoffman. Now you're sitting with 41 other 477 00:16:24,309 --> 00:16:26,815 people. You're on the path. You've now entered 478 00:16:26,815 --> 00:16:27,554 the forest. 479 00:16:28,174 --> 00:16:30,414 And, in the forest, as you're guide as 480 00:16:30,414 --> 00:16:33,215 you're learning things and you're growing and you're 481 00:16:33,215 --> 00:16:35,535 basically coming against your own demons, these are 482 00:16:35,535 --> 00:16:36,975 the demons. These are the things in the 483 00:16:36,975 --> 00:16:38,894 forest that are taking down. There's all these 484 00:16:38,894 --> 00:16:40,919 people on the line kinda helping you. Oh, 485 00:16:40,919 --> 00:16:42,759 go that way. Go this way. They're supporting 486 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:44,919 you. And it's only by going through that 487 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:47,179 process, by the going through the hero's journey 488 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,399 that you come to the treasure. And the 489 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:49,899 treasure 490 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,179 is basically 491 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:53,240 being able to live the life that you're 492 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,134 meant to live. 493 00:16:54,535 --> 00:16:55,894 By the way, now that you've got the 494 00:16:55,894 --> 00:16:57,654 treasure, you can bring it back to the 495 00:16:57,654 --> 00:17:00,134 community, which might be your spouse. It might 496 00:17:00,134 --> 00:17:02,375 be your workplace. It might be wherever, but 497 00:17:02,375 --> 00:17:04,315 you gotta go there to get the treasure. 498 00:17:04,535 --> 00:17:07,434 I am really appreciating your connection to 499 00:17:07,970 --> 00:17:11,089 all of the steps of Joseph Campbell's hero's 500 00:17:11,089 --> 00:17:13,650 journey. Yeah. I love Joseph Campbell. And you 501 00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:15,890 love reading, don't you, Mike? Yeah. I'm a 502 00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:18,130 big reader. I there's just so much stuff 503 00:17:18,130 --> 00:17:18,869 to read. 504 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:21,410 I find that I if I'm lucky, it's 505 00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:23,269 that I have an insatiable curiosity 506 00:17:24,044 --> 00:17:25,325 that I get up every morning and think 507 00:17:25,325 --> 00:17:27,004 about, what what do I wanna learn today? 508 00:17:27,004 --> 00:17:28,444 I may be two in my head, quite 509 00:17:28,444 --> 00:17:30,065 frankly, I've been thinking about the quadrinity. 510 00:17:30,365 --> 00:17:32,625 But there's just so much stuff 511 00:17:33,004 --> 00:17:35,325 to learn about in both the kind of 512 00:17:35,325 --> 00:17:36,944 the the the physical world, 513 00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:39,759 whether it be, you know, history or politics, 514 00:17:39,759 --> 00:17:41,460 whatever. But the inner world 515 00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:42,419 philosophy 516 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,419 and it just never stops. 517 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,159 And the more you know, the more you 518 00:17:46,159 --> 00:17:47,220 kinda wanna know. 519 00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:49,440 And then one thing leads to another, and 520 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,535 I just keep stacking up the podcast. And 521 00:17:51,535 --> 00:17:53,775 the podcasts are amazing. What an amazing new 522 00:17:53,775 --> 00:17:55,474 medium where anybody 523 00:17:56,015 --> 00:17:58,115 in the world you're interested in is anybody's 524 00:17:58,174 --> 00:17:59,394 probably on a podcast. 525 00:17:59,934 --> 00:18:01,535 And only that, you can have a visual. 526 00:18:01,535 --> 00:18:03,454 You can watch them. You can model them. 527 00:18:03,454 --> 00:18:04,974 You can think about what's going on for 528 00:18:04,974 --> 00:18:07,130 them. You can have such a communication going 529 00:18:07,130 --> 00:18:08,970 on. I mean, the last for the last 530 00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:10,190 week, I've been in Davos, 531 00:18:10,730 --> 00:18:12,809 the Davos economic forum. I might go to 532 00:18:12,809 --> 00:18:15,210 Davos, but it's on YouTube. Everybody in the 533 00:18:15,210 --> 00:18:16,730 world was at Davos. I can watch them 534 00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:18,170 on YouTube. I might as well be at 535 00:18:18,170 --> 00:18:20,285 Davos. What's that been like to be able 536 00:18:20,285 --> 00:18:23,244 to transport yourself to Davos without actually going 537 00:18:23,244 --> 00:18:23,744 there? 538 00:18:24,045 --> 00:18:26,045 If you see somebody speak in public on 539 00:18:26,045 --> 00:18:28,045 a, say, YouTube, their their video, and they're 540 00:18:28,045 --> 00:18:28,785 being interviewed, 541 00:18:29,244 --> 00:18:30,779 there's just so much trans weather. 542 00:18:31,099 --> 00:18:33,099 And then it's really your present and just 543 00:18:33,099 --> 00:18:34,619 kinda watch it. Like, what are they thinking 544 00:18:34,619 --> 00:18:37,019 about? What's what's that body language? That guy 545 00:18:37,019 --> 00:18:38,460 didn't agree with what they just asked him. 546 00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:40,460 What's what's really happening there? What's really going 547 00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:42,779 on? You said I'm lucky to have this. 548 00:18:42,779 --> 00:18:44,940 Have you developed it, or you just have 549 00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:47,204 always had it? I think I've always been 550 00:18:47,204 --> 00:18:47,944 really curious 551 00:18:48,325 --> 00:18:50,005 even as a kid. I'm I'm the one 552 00:18:50,005 --> 00:18:51,144 that had all the hobbies, 553 00:18:51,765 --> 00:18:53,704 you know, whether it was rockets or coins 554 00:18:53,765 --> 00:18:54,984 or fish or 555 00:18:55,765 --> 00:18:57,845 I remember that as a kid. I just 556 00:18:57,845 --> 00:18:59,525 always kinda I always had a drive to 557 00:18:59,525 --> 00:19:01,980 kinda know what was going on. I I 558 00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:03,920 had a professor at business school 559 00:19:04,299 --> 00:19:05,660 that used to get in front of the 560 00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:07,339 class. It was a case method kind of 561 00:19:07,339 --> 00:19:09,039 thing for an MBA, and he said, 562 00:19:09,660 --> 00:19:12,480 can anybody tell me what's really going on? 563 00:19:13,259 --> 00:19:15,684 And that was always, can anybody tell me 564 00:19:15,684 --> 00:19:17,204 what's really going on? And I think I've 565 00:19:17,204 --> 00:19:19,365 always been interested in kind of the what 566 00:19:19,365 --> 00:19:20,904 is the grand unifying 567 00:19:21,845 --> 00:19:22,904 theory of everything? 568 00:19:23,444 --> 00:19:25,384 What is really going on? 569 00:19:25,684 --> 00:19:27,444 And by the way, what appears to be 570 00:19:27,444 --> 00:19:29,784 going on is probably not what's going on. 571 00:19:31,690 --> 00:19:33,929 Yeah. So it just makes it interesting, especially 572 00:19:33,929 --> 00:19:35,950 with people. People are endlessly fascinating. 573 00:19:36,409 --> 00:19:39,230 Yeah. What podcasts are you loving lately? 574 00:19:39,690 --> 00:19:41,369 Quite frankly, I'm interested in what's going on 575 00:19:41,369 --> 00:19:43,575 with AI right now. So there's a podcast 576 00:19:43,575 --> 00:19:45,575 called the All In Podcast, which is a 577 00:19:45,575 --> 00:19:47,734 bunch of tech bros talk about tech. And 578 00:19:47,734 --> 00:19:48,875 I'm a hotel guy. 579 00:19:49,255 --> 00:19:50,775 So what what am I doing? I listen 580 00:19:50,775 --> 00:19:51,974 to all this tech stuff, but I think 581 00:19:51,974 --> 00:19:54,454 this AI thing is so important and really 582 00:19:54,454 --> 00:19:56,829 trying to understand it and just listening to 583 00:19:56,829 --> 00:19:58,669 these guys talk. And then there's so many 584 00:19:58,669 --> 00:20:00,929 different rabbit holes to go down from there. 585 00:20:01,390 --> 00:20:03,470 There was this other guy, Peter Diamandas, who 586 00:20:03,470 --> 00:20:05,630 did the x prize. He's got something called 587 00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:08,509 moonshots where he talks about the latest things 588 00:20:08,509 --> 00:20:10,829 happening in, in tech for the week. So 589 00:20:10,829 --> 00:20:13,244 there's kinda like business and technology, 590 00:20:13,625 --> 00:20:15,704 and there's things like the Hoffman podcast, which 591 00:20:15,704 --> 00:20:18,825 is great. Quite frankly, I love the, Oprah 592 00:20:18,825 --> 00:20:19,325 podcast. 593 00:20:19,865 --> 00:20:21,785 You know? And Razz got just got interviewed 594 00:20:21,785 --> 00:20:23,464 there with Oprah. And I know a number 595 00:20:23,464 --> 00:20:25,144 of people have been interviewed by Oprah, which 596 00:20:25,144 --> 00:20:27,529 is kind of interesting. But there's just so 597 00:20:27,529 --> 00:20:29,710 much stuff out there. Yeah. 598 00:20:30,089 --> 00:20:32,569 And so if we get a little more 599 00:20:32,569 --> 00:20:33,069 personal, 600 00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:35,789 tell us a little bit about your story 601 00:20:35,849 --> 00:20:36,750 and sorta 602 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:37,630 how 603 00:20:38,250 --> 00:20:39,950 you came to be you 604 00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:42,704 on a more personal level. I don't know. 605 00:20:42,704 --> 00:20:43,845 It's so fascinating, 606 00:20:44,144 --> 00:20:45,825 but I grew up in a small town 607 00:20:45,825 --> 00:20:46,565 in the Midwest. 608 00:20:47,585 --> 00:20:50,005 And, my father ran a small little business. 609 00:20:50,544 --> 00:20:52,785 I think one thing that really influenced me 610 00:20:52,785 --> 00:20:54,944 is the my father had a couple sales 611 00:20:54,944 --> 00:20:57,025 guys work for him. And when I was 612 00:20:57,025 --> 00:20:58,085 in sixth grade, 613 00:20:58,759 --> 00:21:01,079 he brought home his motivational tapes that he 614 00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:02,839 gave to all the sales guys. And I 615 00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:05,319 remember I I was listening to them, and 616 00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:07,419 there was a guy named Zig Ziglar. 617 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:09,179 And Zig Ziglar's 618 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,440 cassette tape was, I'll see you at the 619 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:12,795 top. 620 00:21:13,755 --> 00:21:16,475 And I listened to that over and over 621 00:21:16,475 --> 00:21:18,555 again, and it was all about having the 622 00:21:18,555 --> 00:21:19,295 right attitude. 623 00:21:19,674 --> 00:21:22,335 The territory of the world was basically neutral. 624 00:21:22,634 --> 00:21:24,475 It was all I asked that interpreted that 625 00:21:24,475 --> 00:21:24,975 territory. 626 00:21:25,355 --> 00:21:27,434 And two different people could have the same 627 00:21:27,434 --> 00:21:27,934 exact 628 00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:31,079 territory interpreted completely different. 629 00:21:31,539 --> 00:21:32,820 And so I think at a young age, 630 00:21:32,820 --> 00:21:35,320 I decided to interpret it things more positively. 631 00:21:35,779 --> 00:21:37,700 But I did come from a family that 632 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:39,859 it appeared to be super functional, and I 633 00:21:39,859 --> 00:21:41,619 think it was functional except for the fact 634 00:21:41,619 --> 00:21:42,839 that as a kid, 635 00:21:43,144 --> 00:21:44,664 the one part of my quadrantity I was 636 00:21:44,664 --> 00:21:46,345 really out of whack was was my emotional 637 00:21:46,345 --> 00:21:48,904 side. And mainly because I came from a 638 00:21:48,904 --> 00:21:51,004 family where my father was command and control. 639 00:21:51,384 --> 00:21:52,904 Stop that crying. I'll give you something to 640 00:21:52,904 --> 00:21:55,065 cry about. And my mother was from England, 641 00:21:55,065 --> 00:21:57,625 and she was very, I'm fine. You're fine. 642 00:21:57,625 --> 00:22:00,179 We're all fine. There's nothing to be sad 643 00:22:00,179 --> 00:22:02,500 about here. And so I got very out 644 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:04,819 of touch with my feelings. Now lucky for 645 00:22:04,819 --> 00:22:06,200 me, I married a woman 646 00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:09,000 that was very in touch with their feelings 647 00:22:09,539 --> 00:22:11,299 and helped me get more in touch with 648 00:22:11,299 --> 00:22:13,015 my feelings. But I think the one thing 649 00:22:13,015 --> 00:22:14,775 that came out of Hoffman for me was 650 00:22:14,775 --> 00:22:16,134 I really I mean, when you had to 651 00:22:16,134 --> 00:22:18,375 name the emotions you were feeling, I had 652 00:22:18,375 --> 00:22:19,355 to look at the list. 653 00:22:19,894 --> 00:22:21,734 And, and I probably still struggle with that 654 00:22:21,734 --> 00:22:23,255 a little bit. It that's the one part 655 00:22:23,255 --> 00:22:24,695 of me that was really clear to me 656 00:22:24,695 --> 00:22:26,134 that he went through Hoffman that was out 657 00:22:26,134 --> 00:22:28,599 of whack. Before she became your wife, 658 00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:32,679 you guys broke up. I'd love the reunion 659 00:22:32,819 --> 00:22:33,799 of that story. 660 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:36,259 Well, it's kind of an amazing story even 661 00:22:36,259 --> 00:22:39,539 to me that, we dated in college, Michigan 662 00:22:39,539 --> 00:22:42,565 State freshman year. I was a bartender. She 663 00:22:42,565 --> 00:22:43,304 was a waitress, 664 00:22:43,765 --> 00:22:45,204 and I fell in love with her. One 665 00:22:45,204 --> 00:22:46,484 of the first women I ever fell in 666 00:22:46,484 --> 00:22:48,184 love with, but we were 18, 667 00:22:48,565 --> 00:22:50,244 and that never occurred to me even to 668 00:22:50,244 --> 00:22:52,804 get married, but she kinda felt differently. And 669 00:22:52,804 --> 00:22:54,869 a couple years later, she married another guy. 670 00:22:54,869 --> 00:22:56,549 I was happy for her. I went to 671 00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:57,130 a wedding. 672 00:22:57,509 --> 00:22:59,130 I've been to all my wife's weddings, 673 00:23:00,390 --> 00:23:02,869 one I participated in. But, anyway, time went 674 00:23:02,869 --> 00:23:04,549 on. I, was in the hotel business to 675 00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:06,230 travel over The United States. You know, I 676 00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:08,230 had plenty of girlfriends, plenty of people I 677 00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:09,750 couldn't marry, but I never asked anybody to 678 00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:12,335 marry me. Seventeen years went by. She had 679 00:23:12,335 --> 00:23:13,794 two children. She got divorced. 680 00:23:14,174 --> 00:23:15,615 I hadn't seen her in, I don't know 681 00:23:15,615 --> 00:23:18,174 how many years, fifteen, seventeen years, and she 682 00:23:18,174 --> 00:23:19,714 remained friendly with my sister. 683 00:23:20,095 --> 00:23:22,335 I was going to, visit my sister in 684 00:23:22,335 --> 00:23:24,755 Michigan, Lake Michigan. She said that in summer 685 00:23:25,549 --> 00:23:28,190 nineteen ninety one, she said, by the way, 686 00:23:28,190 --> 00:23:30,190 Holly will be there. I said, well, great. 687 00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:32,289 Holly, I haven't seen her in so long. 688 00:23:32,349 --> 00:23:33,470 It'd be great to see her. We're gonna 689 00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:35,809 take much more of it. I saw her 690 00:23:35,869 --> 00:23:36,769 and boom. 691 00:23:37,390 --> 00:23:39,150 It was just like that. Within a couple 692 00:23:39,150 --> 00:23:40,289 of months, we were engaged, 693 00:23:40,684 --> 00:23:42,544 and then we were married shortly thereafter. 694 00:23:43,005 --> 00:23:45,244 Kind of a funny story about it, besides 695 00:23:45,244 --> 00:23:47,105 that part of it, which is amazing 696 00:23:47,644 --> 00:23:48,944 to me even now, 697 00:23:49,404 --> 00:23:51,005 is that we got engaged in a high 698 00:23:51,005 --> 00:23:52,619 level on over Napa Valley. 699 00:23:53,099 --> 00:23:54,779 And I was living in a beach at 700 00:23:54,779 --> 00:23:57,359 that time. Holly was living in Detroit, Michigan. 701 00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,819 We met in, Napa Valley, and we flew 702 00:23:59,819 --> 00:24:01,599 in a hot air balloon and got engaged. 703 00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:02,799 Years later, 704 00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:05,119 we built a house in Napa Valley, 705 00:24:05,434 --> 00:24:06,974 and I live in it right now. 706 00:24:07,275 --> 00:24:09,115 And then we realized when we built the 707 00:24:09,115 --> 00:24:11,515 house, all the hot air balloons fly right 708 00:24:11,515 --> 00:24:12,494 over our house. 709 00:24:12,954 --> 00:24:14,015 So we actually 710 00:24:14,394 --> 00:24:16,335 flew over this piece of land 711 00:24:16,954 --> 00:24:19,035 when we were not even living in in 712 00:24:19,035 --> 00:24:19,934 Northern California. 713 00:24:20,309 --> 00:24:22,250 And all these years later, here we are. 714 00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:24,230 It's just kind of, you know, one of 715 00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:26,309 those freaky things that and it was a 716 00:24:26,309 --> 00:24:28,390 big coincidence. What does it mean? I must 717 00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:30,950 admit, I never had a stronger intuitive feeling 718 00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:32,330 about anything other than. 719 00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:35,964 It was a strong intuitive feeling. We've had 720 00:24:35,964 --> 00:24:37,724 a son together, and I've got two steps 721 00:24:37,724 --> 00:24:38,224 around. 722 00:24:38,684 --> 00:24:39,184 Yeah. 723 00:24:39,884 --> 00:24:43,085 Your evening ritual in that Napa Valley land 724 00:24:43,085 --> 00:24:45,484 that you flew over is you and Holly 725 00:24:45,484 --> 00:24:48,544 walking, listening to podcasts with your dogs. 726 00:24:49,130 --> 00:24:51,610 It's unbelievable. We're lucky to live in a 727 00:24:51,610 --> 00:24:53,289 area that's got a lot of vineyards around 728 00:24:53,289 --> 00:24:55,610 us. We've got a five mile walk. We 729 00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:57,850 can take maybe, like, 10 different five mile 730 00:24:57,850 --> 00:25:00,509 walks to base the mountains on both sides. 731 00:25:00,809 --> 00:25:02,410 And we walk on the survey night for 732 00:25:02,410 --> 00:25:03,845 an hour, hour and a half, and we 733 00:25:03,845 --> 00:25:06,085 listen to our books on tape. That's why 734 00:25:06,085 --> 00:25:07,765 I'm getting so many books read, and then 735 00:25:07,765 --> 00:25:08,805 we come back and have a glass of 736 00:25:08,805 --> 00:25:10,965 wine and talk about the day. It's just 737 00:25:10,965 --> 00:25:12,965 such a healthy thing to do. And I 738 00:25:12,965 --> 00:25:14,805 now kid with with Holly, she's, you know, 739 00:25:14,805 --> 00:25:17,045 she's 69 now. I call her my trophy 740 00:25:17,045 --> 00:25:17,545 wife. 741 00:25:18,569 --> 00:25:19,609 Yeah. She gets a kick out of that. 742 00:25:19,609 --> 00:25:20,809 But, you know, hey. Listen. You walk an 743 00:25:20,809 --> 00:25:22,890 hour and a half every night. You get 744 00:25:22,890 --> 00:25:24,509 outside. You get in good shape. 745 00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:27,289 Oh, I'm just grateful for this conversation. What's 746 00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:28,990 it like to talk about 747 00:25:29,369 --> 00:25:31,710 Holly, your life, your process, 748 00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:34,065 all of it? Well, it's just fun to 749 00:25:34,065 --> 00:25:36,105 talk to you. And the fact that you 750 00:25:36,105 --> 00:25:37,944 have an interest in it, I feel very 751 00:25:37,944 --> 00:25:40,585 blessed in my life. And if I look 752 00:25:40,585 --> 00:25:43,384 back at things like the coincidence of going 753 00:25:43,384 --> 00:25:44,044 to Hoffman, 754 00:25:44,505 --> 00:25:45,164 the coincidence 755 00:25:45,464 --> 00:25:47,005 of having a close relationship, 756 00:25:47,464 --> 00:25:48,204 with RAS, 757 00:25:48,589 --> 00:25:50,750 Just how those things actually were very impactful 758 00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:52,930 to me, but they kinda happened coincidentally. 759 00:25:53,789 --> 00:25:55,869 You don't know at the time, but you 760 00:25:55,869 --> 00:25:58,269 look back and then you realize how those 761 00:25:58,269 --> 00:25:59,170 chance encounters 762 00:25:59,869 --> 00:26:00,930 actually are significant 763 00:26:01,470 --> 00:26:03,470 and they resonate. So I I guess my 764 00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:05,494 only maybe not advice, I don't know what 765 00:26:05,494 --> 00:26:08,214 it is, but I feel lucky that over 766 00:26:08,214 --> 00:26:08,714 time, 767 00:26:09,015 --> 00:26:10,615 I feel like I've I've established a pretty 768 00:26:10,615 --> 00:26:12,315 good intuitive sense about things. 769 00:26:13,174 --> 00:26:14,775 And, and kind of what I should do 770 00:26:14,775 --> 00:26:16,054 or what I shouldn't do or what I'm 771 00:26:16,054 --> 00:26:17,835 drawn to or what I'm not drawn to, 772 00:26:17,974 --> 00:26:19,470 and I kinda rely on that. 773 00:26:20,029 --> 00:26:21,730 And part of that was maybe 774 00:26:22,429 --> 00:26:24,190 pulling through, you know, probably, like, twenty five 775 00:26:24,190 --> 00:26:26,609 years of meditation to probably things like Hoffman, 776 00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:27,970 for sure. 777 00:26:28,429 --> 00:26:31,409 When you talk about your intuition and aging, 778 00:26:31,984 --> 00:26:33,845 one of the stories you bring up is 779 00:26:34,384 --> 00:26:36,164 your mom's last moments. 780 00:26:36,705 --> 00:26:38,785 Can you share that moment you had with 781 00:26:38,785 --> 00:26:39,285 her? 782 00:26:39,585 --> 00:26:40,865 Yeah. I'd be glad to share that. So, 783 00:26:41,184 --> 00:26:43,365 I was very blessed that my my mother 784 00:26:43,744 --> 00:26:45,684 just shy of her 90 birthday, 785 00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:48,119 and I'd have to say that her health 786 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:48,619 span 787 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:49,980 and her lifespan 788 00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:51,899 lined up almost perfectly. 789 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,640 She was really only kind of infirm for 790 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,539 a couple weeks 791 00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:58,539 and really only a couple days. 792 00:26:58,964 --> 00:27:00,724 Couple days before her death, she asked for 793 00:27:00,724 --> 00:27:01,224 hospice. 794 00:27:01,525 --> 00:27:03,204 She she had control of that. She asked 795 00:27:03,204 --> 00:27:05,204 for last rites. And it was two days 796 00:27:05,204 --> 00:27:07,204 before she died, and I'm at her deathbed. 797 00:27:07,204 --> 00:27:08,644 And I happen to be in my father's 798 00:27:08,644 --> 00:27:10,404 deathbed too, which I think really is a 799 00:27:10,404 --> 00:27:12,484 blessing to be at your parents' deathbed, both 800 00:27:12,484 --> 00:27:14,960 lived long lives. My mother grabbed my arm 801 00:27:15,339 --> 00:27:16,779 and she's she looked him in the eye. 802 00:27:16,779 --> 00:27:18,380 She'd been sleeping a lot. She opened her 803 00:27:18,380 --> 00:27:19,599 eyes. She said, Michael, 804 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:21,920 Diane's not so bad. 805 00:27:22,539 --> 00:27:24,640 I said, mom, aren't you scared? 806 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:27,684 She goes scared. Scared of what? I thought, 807 00:27:27,684 --> 00:27:28,805 well, what a what a gift from a 808 00:27:28,805 --> 00:27:30,965 dying parent now. That's a real blessing to 809 00:27:30,965 --> 00:27:32,484 have a parent live so long. I I 810 00:27:32,484 --> 00:27:33,545 don't even know 811 00:27:33,845 --> 00:27:35,045 what to make of that, and then to 812 00:27:35,045 --> 00:27:36,664 be able to say that or death, but 813 00:27:36,884 --> 00:27:39,144 I think dying may not be so bad. 814 00:27:39,365 --> 00:27:41,365 I don't know. Being dead may not be 815 00:27:41,365 --> 00:27:42,664 so bad. Dying. 816 00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:43,890 No thanks. 817 00:27:44,429 --> 00:27:46,670 That's scary. I think it was a Woody 818 00:27:46,670 --> 00:27:48,269 Allen said, I don't mind dying. I just 819 00:27:48,269 --> 00:27:49,730 don't wanna be there when it happens. 820 00:27:50,829 --> 00:27:51,329 Mike. 821 00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:54,289 I look forward to our next Q fish. 822 00:27:54,349 --> 00:27:56,190 Hey. Absolutely. Thanks for taking the time to 823 00:27:56,190 --> 00:27:57,255 do this. This is a lot of fun. 824 00:27:57,654 --> 00:28:00,315 I'm so grateful. You bring so much energy 825 00:28:01,015 --> 00:28:04,234 and aliveness, and your real calling card, Mike, 826 00:28:04,295 --> 00:28:05,674 is your incessant 827 00:28:06,214 --> 00:28:06,714 curiosity. 828 00:28:07,174 --> 00:28:07,994 I love it. 829 00:28:08,694 --> 00:28:11,174 Oh, thanks for recognizing it, Drew. And, and 830 00:28:11,174 --> 00:28:12,569 you are great at what you do, and 831 00:28:12,569 --> 00:28:14,730 I I love seeing what you do. And 832 00:28:14,730 --> 00:28:16,329 I love listening to your podcast. I can't 833 00:28:16,329 --> 00:28:17,690 wait to see you at the Cube Fish. 834 00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:19,369 Yeah. I'm gonna see you before that, hopefully. 835 00:28:19,369 --> 00:28:20,970 That's it. I'm gonna come visit you in 836 00:28:20,970 --> 00:28:23,369 Napa Valley, brother. Okay, brother. Take care. I 837 00:28:23,369 --> 00:28:24,029 love you. 838 00:28:34,625 --> 00:28:36,804 Thank you for listening to the Hoffman podcast. 839 00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:39,390 My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO 840 00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:42,269 of the Hoffman Institute Foundation and a Hoffman 841 00:28:42,269 --> 00:28:44,990 teacher. Our mission is to provide greater access 842 00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:47,390 to the wisdom and power of love within 843 00:28:47,390 --> 00:28:49,089 ourselves, in our relationships, 844 00:28:49,630 --> 00:28:52,034 and in the world. To learn more or 845 00:28:52,034 --> 00:28:54,034 to support our mission, we invite you to 846 00:28:54,034 --> 00:28:56,615 visit hoffman institute dot org.