I had picked up, unfortunately,
from my upbringing patterns of
negativity, judgment, critique.
Somehow,
some part of me recognized that that had
to change
and I had to fall madly in love
with myself.
It wasn't about anybody else seeing me or
validating me. I had to be the one
for me. And when I got that, everything
changed.
Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and
this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius.
It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute,
and it's stories and anecdotes
and people we interview
about their life post process and how it
lives in the world radiating love.
This podcast contains discussion of sensitive topics, including
disordered eating. Please use your discretion.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast.
Tamsen
is with us. Welcome, Tamsen.
Thank you, Drew. It's a joy to be
here. I am super excited
for this conversation.
And
in trying to figure out where it starts,
maybe let's go to
you
post process.
You come out of the process. You had
a good experience.
You're enjoying
life.
And then
soon thereafter,
you go into pattern. Take us to that
moment. What happens? You know, you've you hear
this saying,
everywhere you go, there you are.
That's exactly what happened. I
had a few days of that Hoffman high
post process, feel incredible,
fly back home,
get back into
routine,
familiar environment,
habits,
and
it took me back to where I was
before I left for the process, which was
that feeling of dread,
that difficulty
getting out of bed, that, oh, no.
It's another thing that didn't work for me.
And it was devastating
because I think we lose
perspective
when it feels that big and that heavy.
And after trying for so
long to move past it,
it seemed to be a temporary
relief. And, oh, no, my old friend again.
I'm thinking about you post process, and
maybe you almost feel worse because
it's like I thought I had it, and
yet it was elusive.
Here I am again,
and now maybe you're more discouraged
about the possibility of change.
I think there was a deep shame
because
I was shouting from the rooftops
how I'm a new me. I feel brand
new. I feel so refreshed.
And
it felt so fleeting.
And then
I didn't wanna tell anybody
I'm back to the old me. I feel
awful. I can't function. There was so much
shame with that.
And so I did what I always do.
I isolated.
Honestly,
when it feels that dark, it can be
difficult to get up,
put on something,
get out of the house,
and
all of the simple little things became a
struggle again even to take a walk around
the block. And there was really so much
shame
because
the feeling when you're going through that is,
why can I not get this right? Why
is this easy for everybody else? And here
I am again.
It's like, what's wrong with me? It's what's
wrong with me,
and I'll never get out of this. I'm
the only one that's broken, and there's no
solution for me. You feel so isolated
in that moment. I felt so isolated in
that moment,
And I had been to so many
personal development
seminars, read every book. I had devoted so
many years to
figuring this out.
And that
excitement and joy of finally this was the
one
was not.
Oh my gosh.
I get the struggle to get out of
bed, but what old patterns
reemerged
in that here we go again?
You know,
I had been struggling
with that specifically
since I was a very young girl.
I remember
a very large part of my childhood
was spent
sleeping
excessively,
which
was normal to me.
It was only really
much later in life looking back that I
realized,
hang on.
That's signs of depression. That's not normal. That's
not something that a child should be doing.
It just became
so familiar and followed me through life
that
it was just the way that I adapted
and functioned and lived.
Besides that,
I think you stack on all the other
patterns, all the other habits.
I had such a terrible relationship with food.
From that same young age,
there's no other word for it other than
I binged,
but it wasn't apparent to anybody else because
I never gained weight.
I feel like I should have been a
few hundred pounds with the amount of emotional
eating I did throughout my lifetime. Now it
was never consistent, but it was always recurring.
That's an interesting distinction you made there. It's
never consistent
but always
recurring.
It was a feast
famine
situation
and that followed
my money
and it created the same pattern. So it
was weight and it was finances, and those
were the two areas of life that I
ran that same pattern, extreme highs, extreme lows.
It manifests in different areas of your life.
What was happening
in those moments post process
where you really thought you had failed
the process, and here we go again back
in this struggle
place
after yet another workshop,
also was what was happening in your childhood
where you went into those patterns of eating
and,
sleeping long
periods of time, a struggle to get out
of bed.
This is not a success story,
but there's something
in your story
which is familiar to some of our grads,
which is they have that wonderful feeling,
and then they go back into pattern.
I'm fascinated
to interview you
because something shifts.
Something happens differently. So
take us to the
struggle bus that you're on post process. How
does the narrative shift? What happens?
I think at the stage of my life
that I did the process,
there was so much added pressure,
which was the greatest gift ever because I
had to figure it out.
I could not continue
living like that. I found myself in a
new country
reestablishing
myself, my business.
I had no safety net. I had no
familiarity.
I felt
completely
exposed,
and it was, I think, amplified.
It amplified everything
that had been going on through all the
decades leading up to that
Because
where do I go now? If I don't
figure this out, if I don't
get my business back up and running in
this new country.
And my thoughts started spiraling. How do I
keep a roof over my head? What happens?
And so there was a quiet,
desperate
urgency
to figure it out. And I think what
I recognized
was because this was
the fourth
really
traumatic time in my life in different decades
and different seasons
where
I reached a moment of
surrender.
It was an allowing,
almost a welcoming of that enemy, that darkness
to the table to sit down with me,
and I recognized
some of the work that we had done
in the process
allowed me to get to that point to
not be so afraid and to not keep
running from that darkness.
The more you run from it, the more
you fear it,
it tightens its grip. It's it feels
almost like
hands around your throat and you can't breathe.
Do you remember
where you were
when you had that kind of,
I
am surrendering to this. I will not run
from this anymore.
That lesson you took from the process where
I don't wanna be afraid of this darkness.
Where are you when that's happening?
There were really two parts to it. One
was just before the process, I was introduced
to the concept of willingness.
Just saying I am willing to change because
I did not know
how to change,
and just being willing allowed an opening. And
so I came into the process with that
mindset.
And
in the process,
facing
everything
without running away
because
that's the process. There is no way to
run. There is no way to hide. Sure.
You're not tied in there against your will.
You can leave if you really want to.
But I knew I was there for a
reason.
And I knew
if I don't confront this now,
what's next? There is nothing else after this.
And I think
getting back home,
it didn't happen
in a single moment that I can pinpoint
that was the day, that was the time.
It was something that happened over many
individual single miracle moments is what I would
call it.
And just leaning in one little step forward,
maybe two steps back the next day, but
it was a renewed faith.
It really was a decision. I know there
was a distinct time that decision happened. I
couldn't pinpoint it now,
but I knew I was done suffering. I
knew I was,
it was a decision that I am not
a victim.
So why am I allowing this to overcome
me? There's no physical danger. There's no actual
threat.
It gave me the perspective,
and I somehow found another level within me
of strength, of courage,
and
nobody's coming to save you. I had to
pick myself up. Looking back, it was one
of the hardest things I've ever had to
do. These enormous
fears
that
get in the way of progress. It felt
like
one of the most
terrifying
battles,
and yet I was able to take that
first step.
I'm really moved
by
your story here because
I think in it
is a really important
sort of lesson, if you will.
Change
really happens
when we
respond
differently
to the struggle
we're having,
when we react
from a place of courage. I hear so
much courage.
No one is coming to rescue me. What
is next if I don't
navigate this differently?
But I also hear a ton of compassion.
I don't wanna be afraid of this anymore.
Your experience
that you allowed yourself to have post process
where you went back into the same patterns
you had pre process,
but what was different was how you navigated,
how you met yourself
in those pattern places
was very, very different.
I think the you've touched on something so
important. The compassion
is the difference
between staying in it and breaking free from
it. And I'll give you an example. The
little,
toddler who's trying to walk,
who takes a few steps, falls on their
butt,
we're not gonna go and kick the three
year old, two year old in the ribs
and say, you suck. You should just never
walk. You can't do this. Yet
that's how we treat ourselves. So much judgment,
so much critique, so much negativity. It's never
good enough.
And I see it as,
well, when this kid takes a few steps
and then falls down,
you are excited. You're cheering them on. Oh
my goodness. You took two steps. And, you
know, this is exciting. This is thrilling. And
I had to be that person for myself.
I had picked up, unfortunately,
from my upbringing patterns of negativity, judgment, critique.
And
somehow,
some part of me recognized that that had
to change,
and I had to fall madly in love
with myself.
It wasn't about anybody else seeing me or
validating me. I had to be the one
for me. And when I got that, everything
changed.
What was it like
to be in pain,
but to meet yourself
and fall in love with yourself in those
moments? What was that experience, and how was
it different
as opposed to being in pain and meeting
yourself with so much self judgment and criticism
and abandonment,
if you will? How were those early experiences
of loving yourself in that pain?
It was
such an interesting experience, and it's one that
everybody has to go through. It's almost like
meeting somebody new and
going through the different stages of awkwardness.
You know, it started with a little bit
of eye contact and looking at myself in
the mirror.
I don't know that I had ever done
that. I don't know that I'd ever truly
seen myself
other than to
critique, oh, you've got a wrinkle. Oh, I'd
you know, your hair looks terrible.
Something
emerged as I was able to really connect,
be truthful,
be honest. The tears would flow.
There's something so special. It's unfamiliar. It's uncomfortable.
It's as confronting as sitting eyeball to eyeball
with a stranger.
So it takes time. It's not as if
in the moment that I decided to do
this, everything was roses. It took time. I
had to develop that relationship. I had to
be committed
to really connect with myself daily
and
make it
the most important thing in my life because
I am.
Yeah. You are the most important thing in
your life. Wow. And
would you say in that getting to know
yourself again, I love the idea that it's
like meeting a stranger, and it's awkward at
times and
uncomfortable, deeply uncomfortable.
Would you say that the process helped you
in those moments
of meeting yourself in that
pain, getting to know yourself again, that it
was the process that helped you?
Without a doubt, the process helped me in
so many ways. And with that specifically,
there's no shame, there's no judgment. The process
allows you to put everything
on the table. Sometimes things you haven't thought
about for a very long time, sometimes things
that you've blocked out even. It reconnects you
to every part of yourself
and illuminates
it in a way that it just is.
There's no good. There's no bad. There's just
my life experience.
And once you're okay
with all parts of yourself, it frees you.
It loosens that grip that I was talking
about of shame and not enoughness.
And that
expansion
opens up capacity and it frees energy
for a focus on where I'm moving to
rather than all of the baggage and the
weight and the burden that I'd been holding
on to from my painful past that
had never been dealt with or processed. And
so it was incredibly
helpful
for sure. Tamsen, you're talking about something that
is
slightly counterintuitive.
But so I just wanna name it because
I think many people
get stuck in this idea that to run
from struggle
is to lock yourself
into struggle.
But you said when you accept all parts
of who you are, when you embrace it
all,
then there's something that gets loosened,
and you can begin to generate
good energy
as a result of, embracing all of who
you are. Does that feel counterintuitive
to you? Or
I'm so glad you have raised this because
it is completely counterintuitive.
It is the opposite of anything we would
imagine, and it's the most difficult
concept
to describe to somebody who hasn't been to
the other side of this.
It feels
as if
you want to run away. If I can
tell you in my experience,
anything that feels uncomfortable,
messy,
dark,
scary,
it made me want to run-in the other
direction. You've heard the saying, what you resist
persists.
And so this is exactly what's happening.
The more I feared it, the more I
ran away from it, the
tighter
it held on to me.
And interestingly, and this is why I always
say welcome your
enemy, welcome the darkness, let everybody come and
sit with you at the table,
welcome with open arms, with love, with light.
That's like standing up to the bully in
school.
That is when everything dissolves and you are
free.
You know, you and I talked earlier about
moments
in time in your process.
Like many people, you don't remember a lot,
do you? It's not as if you can
pinpoint specific moments, can you? There's a few
highlights, I would say, where I can remember
being in a specific venue, going through a
specific exercise. You know, a lot of the
specifics
in terms of language and terminology
and
curriculum,
I would say I don't remember everything in
detail.
I do remember the transformation.
I do remember how I felt. And isn't
that so true? That's what we always remember.
We are these thinking, feeling human beings having
this experience.
And so I couldn't recite back the entire
process. It's just so complex and so incredible
and so thoughtfully
crafted and put together. It's it's absolutely genius.
That's why there are incredible facilitators
to do that,
and
I get to
be a part of that ride.
Why does it feel important
to note that while you don't remember the
curricula
and specific
moments and lessons and teachings,
it actually doesn't matter because the felt sense
of the experience
is what you do remember. Why is that
an important distinction?
I think like anything in life,
what I am meant to retain,
I will.
There will be other things at a subconscious
level that will serve me, And it's not
about obsessing over I mean, I've got the
workbooks and I do review and revisit,
but I took away exactly what I needed.
It would not be the same for every
person in the room, but it altered me
in a way that I just allowed and
trusted and knew that this is not for
me to control. The universe is so big
and expansive, and I cannot control everything.
There's definitely
an allowing
of whatever needs to move through me. I'm
open. I'm ready. I love you. I'm here.
Beautiful. I hear so much surrender in that
you talk about allowing.
And earlier,
you shared a concept that you
had just learned. What was that?
Prior to my process,
as I mentioned, I have studied
every thought leader, every teacher. It's been my
obsession. It's why I do what I do.
And
the concept of willingness
was
one of the most pivotal things. And I've
found for many people, it shifts
a person
so quickly
because this is what gets us stuck. I
don't know what the end looks like. I
don't know how to get from here in
this mountain of pain
to the other side where I'm free and
things are easy.
And so that willingness,
just being willing to change,
frees up some energy to
take that first step. And I always say
you just need five seconds of courage. There's
no actual
physical threat, yet it feels terrifying. It feels
as though there's an invisible seatbelt or something
holding you back.
And that willingness
seems to be such
a dissolver
of a percentage of that fear that gives
you that little bit of momentum to take
the first step.
As I'm sitting here reflecting
on your struggle post process,
I keep saying struggle, but, you know, pattern,
dark side, suffering,
you name it,
I think that your spirit,
your essence,
your authenticity,
your innate goodness
allowed you
to really go into pattern,
actually gave you the experience.
It actually gifted you. I'm going to help
you heal
by giving you an experience
of your dark side and your patterns
post process
so that you can meet yourself
and have the experience
of loving yourself
in the very depth of your pain.
There was a very deep knowing, and and
you're correct, that
once I figure this out for myself,
there are so many other people who I
can help with this.
I had been
bypassing
it, I think, for a very long time.
I'd figured out the basics of how I
can function and have just enough capacity
to help my clients, to help everybody else,
but I was struggling with my own stuff
behind the scenes.
And somehow,
I knew I don't know how I knew
it was just an internal
knowing and intuitive
knowing
that this is bigger than me,
that the answers are not going to be
logical,
And that if I just keep going and
just be willing to take that one more
step, I'm going to figure this out and
see it in a way that nobody else
is able to see it and reflect
that back
to anybody else
who is going through that same struggle. Because
you're right, most people aren't able to
join the dots
and have the perspective
and look back. I think something incredible
happens when you're on the other side of
that pain, when that
emotional
charge is removed.
When the pain is removed,
you have the wisdom
of knowing how you got to the point.
And it's such a deeply painful,
profound
way of learning something that will stay with
you forever and that you will never take
for granted
and be able to fully let go. It's
it feels like an absolute privilege
and gift that why would I not want
to help? I I don't want anybody to
spend a moment longer
than they need to feeling that way because
I've spent a few decades feeling that way
myself.
Having gone through that, what do you notice
on this side of those experiences?
I've noticed that
feelings
are not good, they're not bad, they're all
going to come, but I see them so
differently now. We have this full
range of emotions,
and we're here to experience
all of them.
I think I had such a limited perspective
before
because everything felt so heavy. Whereas now,
I welcome and I allow all of it,
and it's incredibly
freeing.
It's allowed
me to focus on so much more, to
build so much more, to give back so
much more. And it's not coming from a
place of being
desperate
to get from point a to point b.
Things just flow.
I work on projects that feel good.
I pause when I feel that my body
needs time to pause. There's no shame. There's
no over analyzing. There's no explaining, apologizing,
feeling like I'm, you know, in the way.
I think something you said to me, Drew,
rarely
stood with me during the process
because you could see I was struggling. And
you said, Tamzin,
take
up your space
in this world.
And so I think, you know, pre process,
I felt like I was a burden. I
felt like I was always
in the way. Whether I was in traffic,
whether I was standing in a line, I
would get out of the way and make
space for everybody else. And now I feel
like I belong and I have my place
in this world, and that is
a gift and
something that I could never possibly forget. It's
it's such a life changer.
So what's next for you? What does the
future hold as you step into this
taking up your space more and more fully?
So much has changed. I think
professionally,
I've really found my voice and my confidence
and really leaned back into all the parts
of me that are here to serve
and here to shout it from the rooftops
because what I do matters.
I have
cofounded
with some really powerful women a new business
in addition to what I am doing that's
really gonna help a lot of people. And
I'm just incredibly
grateful for a lot of new exciting projects
and ventures
and a clean slate, if you will,
to really expand
what's possible. And I've got a lot of
dreams and very big goals, and I'm sure
we'll have another conversation
when I get to the other side of
everything that is in motion right now. And
I love this idea of generative
energy
flowing.
It sounds like
you're not in your own way, and you're
allowing the
energy inside you to emerge.
It feels
like I've come home to me. You know,
Drew, I've moved around the world a lot,
and there have been so many different seasons.
And I've realized that home is a feeling.
Home is within me.
And I can say
at, you know, this stage and decade of
life, I finally feel like I am home.
I do belong. I love myself.
And I think it's been a lifelong quest
of what is my purpose? Why are we
here? What is self love even? And these
are very difficult
concepts to explain.
And I have such a deep understanding and
appreciation
for how complex this is,
as well as how important
it it really is a must.
One of the things
that's emerging for me is your persistence.
You
have not given up
year after year
on
finding
your purpose, finding joy, finding
that flow state. This is important to you
and you haven't
let it go, have you?
I really haven't.
My first trauma tragedy, if you will, happened
at the age of four. And I think
that really shaped my outlook and the way
I approached the world.
And I think I've spent
every moment since then trying to move away
from the pain of feeling insignificant,
of struggling to make eye contact. It was
something so deeply important to me. I've lived
a very interesting life. I've
moved around the world. I've had conversations
with monks
and shamans, and I've really tried every modality,
everything
out there. And it just feels like a
natural part of why I'm here, and I
wouldn't have it any other way.
I'm so grateful for this conversation. What's it
like to reflect
on your story, your journey over the decades?
It's something that I'm incredibly
proud of
because to your point, you said you've persisted.
You've kept going. You've never given up. I
think many people would. I think that
it would be okay if I had, honestly.
I think
looking back now, taking stock, there is such
an appreciation
for everything I get to experience, the places
I've been able to visit, the teachers
I've been able to learn from. And I
think
that is available to all of us.
Again, back to that word willing. If you're
just willing, the right book will land up
on your lap. The right conversation will happen.
You'll overhear something while you're standing in a
queue.
So I'm just
incredibly
grateful
for every moment that has brought me to
this point here, every painful
thing that has happened,
every situation,
every circumstance, every mistake I've made because there've
been so many of those,
and every single one of them has given
me the life that I have today.
And I never would have been here if
I had just stayed
in bed as that little girl
and not been brave enough to venture out
in the world. So I have a lot
of love and appreciation for that version of
me.
Timpson, thank you for this conversation.
I am so grateful to sit down and
have this conversation. You know how much love
I have for all things Hoffman. So it's
been an absolute joy and a privilege. Thank
you.
Thank you for listening to the Hoffman podcast.
My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO
of the Hoffman Institute Foundation and a Hoffman
teacher. Our mission is to provide greater access
to the wisdom and power of love within
ourselves, in our relationships,
and in the world. To learn more or
to support our mission, we invite you to
visit hoffmaninstitute.org.