1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,439 I used to believe that I needed to 2 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:04,819 transcend being human 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,440 to be enough and now I see that 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,500 being human is the sacred experience. 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,484 Hello and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a 6 00:00:15,484 --> 00:00:18,144 podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. 7 00:00:18,364 --> 00:00:20,285 My name is Sadie Hanna, and in this 8 00:00:20,285 --> 00:00:24,045 podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with 9 00:00:24,045 --> 00:00:27,244 graduates about their courageous journey inward and how 10 00:00:27,244 --> 00:00:29,829 their love and light are living in the 11 00:00:29,829 --> 00:00:33,350 world around them. Love's everyday radius. Thank you 12 00:00:33,350 --> 00:00:34,570 for being here and welcome. 13 00:00:39,109 --> 00:00:41,929 Hey, everyone. Welcome. I'm here with Alicia 14 00:00:42,310 --> 00:00:45,945 Sheikh today. She's a Hoffman process teacher. Alicia, 15 00:00:46,325 --> 00:00:46,825 welcome. 16 00:00:47,524 --> 00:00:49,765 Hi, Sadie. Thank you so much for having 17 00:00:49,765 --> 00:00:52,085 me. I'm so excited to be here. So 18 00:00:52,085 --> 00:00:55,125 let me introduce you. Many of our grads 19 00:00:55,125 --> 00:00:57,065 may already know you. Alicia 20 00:00:57,445 --> 00:01:00,140 is not only a Hoffman process teacher, but 21 00:01:00,140 --> 00:01:02,719 she also has a background in mindfulness. 22 00:01:03,020 --> 00:01:05,119 She's got a master's in mindfulness studies. 23 00:01:05,819 --> 00:01:07,840 She's also got a background in coaching, 24 00:01:08,219 --> 00:01:08,719 speaking. 25 00:01:09,259 --> 00:01:11,119 She's a trauma sensitive meditation 26 00:01:11,420 --> 00:01:11,920 teacher 27 00:01:12,635 --> 00:01:15,454 and has a passion for wellness 28 00:01:15,834 --> 00:01:16,655 and healing, 29 00:01:17,194 --> 00:01:18,094 and also 30 00:01:18,795 --> 00:01:21,135 the host of the Relish podcast, 31 00:01:21,755 --> 00:01:24,475 a podcast for people who are tired of 32 00:01:24,475 --> 00:01:25,694 living on autopilot. 33 00:01:26,530 --> 00:01:29,569 So, Alicia, with that, tell us a bit 34 00:01:29,569 --> 00:01:32,790 more about who you are. What's your story? 35 00:01:33,650 --> 00:01:34,469 It's so 36 00:01:34,850 --> 00:01:36,710 interesting hearing you say 37 00:01:37,490 --> 00:01:38,549 that little bio 38 00:01:38,850 --> 00:01:39,670 back to me 39 00:01:40,210 --> 00:01:41,829 because all of it 40 00:01:42,185 --> 00:01:44,844 was so informed by my process. 41 00:01:45,305 --> 00:01:47,944 It's making me realize how much who I 42 00:01:47,944 --> 00:01:48,604 am today 43 00:01:49,144 --> 00:01:49,965 is really 44 00:01:50,424 --> 00:01:53,224 thanks to my process experience. So I'm I'm 45 00:01:53,224 --> 00:01:54,765 excited to dive into this. 46 00:01:55,319 --> 00:01:56,459 What's the earliest 47 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,560 time you can remember having a sense of 48 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:00,060 yourself? 49 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,700 It makes me wonder which self 50 00:02:03,079 --> 00:02:03,579 because 51 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,260 my preprocess 52 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:06,380 self 53 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:07,980 and my postprocess 54 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:08,939 self 55 00:02:09,625 --> 00:02:10,764 are so different. 56 00:02:11,385 --> 00:02:13,405 It's actually hard for me to remember 57 00:02:13,865 --> 00:02:14,764 who I was 58 00:02:15,064 --> 00:02:15,564 because 59 00:02:16,425 --> 00:02:17,564 I did not have 60 00:02:18,504 --> 00:02:19,245 a relationship 61 00:02:19,705 --> 00:02:20,205 with 62 00:02:20,585 --> 00:02:22,764 my inner world at all, and so 63 00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:24,599 I feel so disconnected 64 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:27,540 from that person. I look and feel and 65 00:02:27,540 --> 00:02:28,760 sound so drastically 66 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:30,200 different. 67 00:02:30,980 --> 00:02:33,460 I almost have processed it that the me 68 00:02:33,460 --> 00:02:34,599 before the process 69 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:36,439 was living 70 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:37,800 almost 71 00:02:38,594 --> 00:02:40,455 entirely on this autopilot 72 00:02:41,314 --> 00:02:42,534 and kind of never 73 00:02:43,474 --> 00:02:46,115 didn't know I was on autopilot, didn't stop 74 00:02:46,115 --> 00:02:47,175 to question it, 75 00:02:47,555 --> 00:02:49,415 didn't know there was any other 76 00:02:49,794 --> 00:02:50,935 possible way, 77 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:55,150 and also completely driven by my intellect, 78 00:02:56,090 --> 00:02:56,590 and 79 00:02:57,129 --> 00:02:57,629 really 80 00:02:58,090 --> 00:02:58,590 emotionally 81 00:02:59,610 --> 00:03:00,110 numb. 82 00:03:00,810 --> 00:03:02,909 So it's hard to go back and remember 83 00:03:02,969 --> 00:03:03,949 what I felt 84 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:05,949 because I was not 85 00:03:06,625 --> 00:03:08,305 feeling. I was not I mean, I was 86 00:03:08,305 --> 00:03:09,764 feeling, but I wasn't aware 87 00:03:10,145 --> 00:03:12,145 of those feelings, and I didn't have any 88 00:03:12,145 --> 00:03:14,485 tools or awareness that they needed 89 00:03:14,784 --> 00:03:15,284 space. 90 00:03:15,665 --> 00:03:18,724 It's just so drastically different from my experience 91 00:03:18,784 --> 00:03:20,784 now, which I'm so grateful for, which feels 92 00:03:20,784 --> 00:03:21,685 so much more 93 00:03:22,010 --> 00:03:23,550 rich and full. But 94 00:03:24,250 --> 00:03:26,010 that is not how it felt when I 95 00:03:26,010 --> 00:03:27,689 went into the process. I mean, that was 96 00:03:27,689 --> 00:03:29,210 almost ten I think it was, like, eight 97 00:03:29,210 --> 00:03:31,210 years ago, which is crazy too. I was 98 00:03:31,210 --> 00:03:32,990 quite young when I went. 99 00:03:33,370 --> 00:03:35,215 How old were you when you did? I 100 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:37,314 was I think I was 27. 101 00:03:37,854 --> 00:03:40,014 Now we get people younger than that, but 102 00:03:40,014 --> 00:03:42,495 I remember at my process, I was one 103 00:03:42,495 --> 00:03:44,594 of the youngest people in the group. 104 00:03:45,134 --> 00:03:47,854 And I remember some people in my cohort 105 00:03:47,854 --> 00:03:50,069 being like, why are you here this young? 106 00:03:50,069 --> 00:03:51,430 And I was like, oh my gosh. I'm 107 00:03:51,430 --> 00:03:52,170 so glad 108 00:03:52,870 --> 00:03:54,629 I'm here so that I can do this 109 00:03:54,629 --> 00:03:55,689 work now. 110 00:03:56,230 --> 00:03:58,710 But I do remember walking in and having 111 00:03:58,710 --> 00:04:00,409 no idea what I was getting into 112 00:04:00,950 --> 00:04:02,170 on the first day. 113 00:04:02,745 --> 00:04:04,284 A very visceral memory 114 00:04:04,985 --> 00:04:05,485 is 115 00:04:05,865 --> 00:04:08,925 getting the feelings list. So at the very 116 00:04:08,985 --> 00:04:11,485 beginning of the the first day, 117 00:04:11,784 --> 00:04:14,444 we hand out this list of of emotions, 118 00:04:14,665 --> 00:04:15,165 and 119 00:04:15,784 --> 00:04:17,324 I remember seeing that 120 00:04:17,930 --> 00:04:19,470 and being like, holy crap. 121 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:21,870 Are there so many 122 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:25,129 emotions? I mean, obviously, I knew what an 123 00:04:25,129 --> 00:04:26,430 emotion was intellectually, 124 00:04:27,529 --> 00:04:30,910 but I had never stopped to ask myself 125 00:04:32,194 --> 00:04:33,495 what I was feeling. 126 00:04:34,035 --> 00:04:35,394 I mean, this was not a part of 127 00:04:35,394 --> 00:04:38,194 my childhood. We didn't talk about feelings. I 128 00:04:38,194 --> 00:04:40,274 think some of that is, like, family patterns. 129 00:04:40,274 --> 00:04:41,495 Some of it's cultural 130 00:04:41,954 --> 00:04:44,115 as well. I grew up in a, mixed 131 00:04:44,115 --> 00:04:47,314 race household. My dad's an immigrant, and so 132 00:04:47,314 --> 00:04:47,850 I think 133 00:04:48,810 --> 00:04:51,790 there's different ways of relating to emotions culturally 134 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:52,990 as well. But 135 00:04:53,770 --> 00:04:55,709 it was just not even on my radar 136 00:04:56,330 --> 00:04:56,830 that 137 00:04:57,290 --> 00:04:58,189 it was important. 138 00:04:58,649 --> 00:05:00,970 And so to show up to this process 139 00:05:00,970 --> 00:05:02,685 where they're like, we're gonna ask what you're 140 00:05:02,685 --> 00:05:04,625 feeling all day, all the time, 141 00:05:05,564 --> 00:05:07,185 it was such new territory 142 00:05:07,805 --> 00:05:08,464 for me. 143 00:05:09,485 --> 00:05:12,305 Very uncomfortable, but, also, I was so intrigued 144 00:05:12,925 --> 00:05:14,064 because immediately, 145 00:05:14,444 --> 00:05:15,425 I could sense 146 00:05:16,205 --> 00:05:16,705 that 147 00:05:17,389 --> 00:05:18,290 there's information 148 00:05:18,830 --> 00:05:20,290 here about myself 149 00:05:21,069 --> 00:05:23,629 that I had never had access to. It 150 00:05:23,629 --> 00:05:25,009 was like this rich 151 00:05:25,629 --> 00:05:26,129 intelligence 152 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:27,889 that helped me 153 00:05:28,270 --> 00:05:30,370 understand myself and other people. 154 00:05:30,670 --> 00:05:31,970 It almost felt like 155 00:05:32,675 --> 00:05:34,995 if I was living before in a gray 156 00:05:34,995 --> 00:05:36,854 scale, like a black and white world, 157 00:05:37,235 --> 00:05:38,214 and then suddenly 158 00:05:38,595 --> 00:05:40,134 life was in color 159 00:05:40,435 --> 00:05:42,935 with this depth and texture 160 00:05:43,394 --> 00:05:45,649 that I didn't even know was there. Was 161 00:05:45,649 --> 00:05:47,189 it shocking to you? 162 00:05:47,490 --> 00:05:47,990 Yes. 163 00:05:48,610 --> 00:05:51,009 Yes. It was shocking, and I think that's 164 00:05:51,009 --> 00:05:51,509 why 165 00:05:51,889 --> 00:05:54,050 the process is hard. Like, you're doing hard 166 00:05:54,050 --> 00:05:54,550 work, 167 00:05:55,089 --> 00:05:57,189 but I was so intrigued 168 00:05:58,545 --> 00:05:59,845 that the curiosity 169 00:06:00,384 --> 00:06:03,605 really took over. It was this drastic 170 00:06:04,064 --> 00:06:05,045 shift from 171 00:06:05,904 --> 00:06:08,485 the narrow world view I had been indoctrinated 172 00:06:08,785 --> 00:06:11,345 with, not questioning it, not knowing there was 173 00:06:11,345 --> 00:06:12,805 any other possible way, 174 00:06:13,310 --> 00:06:14,769 to all the possibilities. 175 00:06:15,789 --> 00:06:17,310 And I was like, oh my gosh. I 176 00:06:17,310 --> 00:06:19,389 need to go there. I need to understand 177 00:06:19,389 --> 00:06:19,889 it. 178 00:06:20,189 --> 00:06:22,269 It was my awakening. Tell us a bit 179 00:06:22,269 --> 00:06:24,829 about who you were, but give us a 180 00:06:24,829 --> 00:06:26,269 sense of who walks in that day and 181 00:06:26,269 --> 00:06:27,649 gets that feeling list. 182 00:06:28,214 --> 00:06:30,154 I was 27, but I probably 183 00:06:31,095 --> 00:06:31,915 felt about 184 00:06:32,375 --> 00:06:32,875 seven. 185 00:06:33,495 --> 00:06:34,475 I was just 186 00:06:34,855 --> 00:06:35,915 on autopilot 187 00:06:36,694 --> 00:06:38,615 doing all the things I thought I was 188 00:06:38,615 --> 00:06:39,834 supposed to do. 189 00:06:40,250 --> 00:06:41,930 I thought you go to school and then 190 00:06:41,930 --> 00:06:44,009 you get the job and you do the 191 00:06:44,009 --> 00:06:46,170 things, and this is what you're supposed to 192 00:06:46,170 --> 00:06:47,689 do, and this is just what a human 193 00:06:47,689 --> 00:06:48,189 does. 194 00:06:48,730 --> 00:06:49,629 And I never 195 00:06:50,090 --> 00:06:52,410 stopped and asked what I felt about it 196 00:06:52,410 --> 00:06:53,949 or if it was what I wanted 197 00:06:55,534 --> 00:06:57,454 or if it gave me any meaning or 198 00:06:57,454 --> 00:06:59,055 purpose. It was just like, this is what 199 00:06:59,055 --> 00:06:59,714 you do. 200 00:07:00,094 --> 00:07:02,814 And so to stop and go, well, wait 201 00:07:02,814 --> 00:07:04,034 a second. Why? 202 00:07:04,654 --> 00:07:06,974 I was so driven by intellect. I was 203 00:07:06,974 --> 00:07:09,954 so flat. I was doing, doing, doing. 204 00:07:11,470 --> 00:07:14,110 And the process was this awakening to there's 205 00:07:14,110 --> 00:07:15,009 more to me 206 00:07:15,389 --> 00:07:15,889 than 207 00:07:16,189 --> 00:07:18,430 my mind. There are all these other parts 208 00:07:18,430 --> 00:07:19,089 of me. 209 00:07:19,949 --> 00:07:22,209 Being human is complex, 210 00:07:23,149 --> 00:07:25,410 and I wanted to believe it was simple. 211 00:07:26,164 --> 00:07:27,544 I just do the things, 212 00:07:27,845 --> 00:07:30,345 and then I, like, become happy, I guess. 213 00:07:31,204 --> 00:07:32,345 No. It's messy. 214 00:07:33,604 --> 00:07:34,104 Emotions 215 00:07:34,404 --> 00:07:35,704 are messy, and 216 00:07:36,884 --> 00:07:39,079 being human is not 217 00:07:40,259 --> 00:07:41,399 clean. And 218 00:07:42,019 --> 00:07:44,360 what I realized was that wasn't a problem. 219 00:07:44,979 --> 00:07:46,680 I had this real awakening 220 00:07:47,139 --> 00:07:49,620 to a sense that I was a human 221 00:07:49,620 --> 00:07:50,120 doing 222 00:07:51,139 --> 00:07:53,219 rather than a human being. I loved that 223 00:07:53,219 --> 00:07:55,345 framing of it. It hit me like a 224 00:07:55,345 --> 00:07:57,425 ton of bricks. Like, oh my god. Have 225 00:07:57,425 --> 00:07:59,105 I ever stopped to ask what a human 226 00:07:59,105 --> 00:08:00,485 being even is? 227 00:08:01,024 --> 00:08:04,004 So did you find yourself before you came 228 00:08:04,064 --> 00:08:04,564 avoiding 229 00:08:04,944 --> 00:08:06,485 things that opened up 230 00:08:06,944 --> 00:08:09,604 messiness or that weren't organized? 231 00:08:10,279 --> 00:08:12,060 If we were to observe you 232 00:08:12,439 --> 00:08:14,860 before you came, what were you doing? 233 00:08:15,639 --> 00:08:18,680 Well, what I was doing, it's, interesting. I 234 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,180 was running a YouTube channel at the time. 235 00:08:21,879 --> 00:08:24,279 Actually, that was my job. And I do 236 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:26,395 think when I look back, some part of 237 00:08:26,395 --> 00:08:27,134 my spirit, 238 00:08:27,915 --> 00:08:30,254 I had followed breadcrumbs along the way. 239 00:08:30,715 --> 00:08:32,095 There was some authenticity 240 00:08:32,394 --> 00:08:33,295 in it, but 241 00:08:33,835 --> 00:08:36,174 the I was most disconnected from my emotional 242 00:08:36,235 --> 00:08:38,029 self. Like, of my quadrinity, 243 00:08:38,649 --> 00:08:41,049 I had no relationship to my emotional self. 244 00:08:41,049 --> 00:08:41,549 And 245 00:08:42,570 --> 00:08:45,070 I think that that person before was 246 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:47,070 trying to find 247 00:08:47,850 --> 00:08:48,350 happiness, 248 00:08:49,424 --> 00:08:52,705 wanting to feel happiness without ever having to 249 00:08:52,705 --> 00:08:54,565 go to the discomfort of feeling, 250 00:08:55,264 --> 00:08:56,245 in part because 251 00:08:57,024 --> 00:08:59,745 she didn't know how. She didn't know it 252 00:08:59,745 --> 00:09:00,485 was important. 253 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,540 I mean, the power of understanding 254 00:09:04,399 --> 00:09:04,899 expression 255 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,399 in the process was so powerful for me. 256 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:10,340 It was fun. I remember 257 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:12,179 so many people were 258 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,299 angry and upset. And, I mean, I expressed 259 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:15,860 anger, 260 00:09:16,434 --> 00:09:17,254 but I remember 261 00:09:17,795 --> 00:09:19,975 seeing, like, the calluses on my hands 262 00:09:20,835 --> 00:09:22,055 and just laughing, 263 00:09:22,915 --> 00:09:24,295 like, laughing hysterically, 264 00:09:24,915 --> 00:09:26,455 feeling so alive. 265 00:09:27,715 --> 00:09:31,335 And I had been living waiting to feel 266 00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:34,279 and not knowing how to do it. And 267 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:35,000 as 268 00:09:35,860 --> 00:09:37,000 a human doing, 269 00:09:37,539 --> 00:09:39,639 there's no focus on emotions. 270 00:09:40,820 --> 00:09:43,159 What I learned was not only were emotions 271 00:09:43,299 --> 00:09:44,919 important, but the whole range 272 00:09:45,644 --> 00:09:46,465 of emotions 273 00:09:47,004 --> 00:09:49,904 were important. And maybe I came in 274 00:09:50,524 --> 00:09:51,024 numb 275 00:09:51,965 --> 00:09:52,865 and wanting. 276 00:09:53,644 --> 00:09:55,085 Some part of me knew there was, like, 277 00:09:55,085 --> 00:09:56,384 there should be something more, 278 00:09:56,925 --> 00:09:59,404 joy or something. I didn't quite know what 279 00:09:59,404 --> 00:09:59,904 happiness. 280 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:02,320 But what I discovered 281 00:10:02,779 --> 00:10:03,279 was 282 00:10:04,139 --> 00:10:04,959 my capacity 283 00:10:06,620 --> 00:10:08,159 to tap into the joy 284 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:10,639 was dependent 285 00:10:12,059 --> 00:10:12,799 on my 286 00:10:13,179 --> 00:10:15,440 willingness to go to the hard stuff, 287 00:10:16,514 --> 00:10:18,454 the painful stuff, the shame. 288 00:10:18,914 --> 00:10:19,414 Shame 289 00:10:20,995 --> 00:10:23,414 was one of the most profound parts 290 00:10:25,154 --> 00:10:27,475 of the process for me. And I think 291 00:10:27,475 --> 00:10:29,954 that what that person you're asking what who 292 00:10:29,954 --> 00:10:31,174 was that person before 293 00:10:31,610 --> 00:10:32,190 the process? 294 00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:35,210 I think what she was feeling all the 295 00:10:35,210 --> 00:10:35,710 time, 296 00:10:36,970 --> 00:10:37,470 subconsciously, 297 00:10:37,850 --> 00:10:38,590 was shame. 298 00:10:40,009 --> 00:10:43,370 I just lived through this sense that there 299 00:10:43,370 --> 00:10:45,370 was something wrong with me, that I was, 300 00:10:45,370 --> 00:10:48,424 like, broken and needed to be fixed. Because 301 00:10:48,965 --> 00:10:51,605 if I wasn't if there wasn't something wrong 302 00:10:51,605 --> 00:10:53,225 with me, I wouldn't feel this way. 303 00:10:53,764 --> 00:10:54,424 The quadrinity 304 00:10:54,725 --> 00:10:57,205 you mentioned, and that's these four parts of 305 00:10:57,205 --> 00:10:58,105 self, intellect, 306 00:10:58,409 --> 00:10:59,950 emotional self, body, 307 00:11:00,329 --> 00:11:03,629 and essence, or we use the word spiritual 308 00:11:03,769 --> 00:11:05,929 self. And so you're saying that you felt 309 00:11:05,929 --> 00:11:07,950 disconnected from your emotional self. 310 00:11:08,329 --> 00:11:10,110 Yet, I also heard 311 00:11:10,975 --> 00:11:15,554 emotional expression through body movement, through different cathartic 312 00:11:15,934 --> 00:11:16,434 exercises. 313 00:11:17,455 --> 00:11:18,674 And so seeing 314 00:11:19,134 --> 00:11:20,274 those calluses 315 00:11:20,654 --> 00:11:22,654 on your hands made you laugh out loud 316 00:11:22,654 --> 00:11:23,554 feeling alive. 317 00:11:23,949 --> 00:11:24,769 I think that 318 00:11:25,070 --> 00:11:27,490 experience of expressing at the process 319 00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:29,490 was the first time 320 00:11:29,870 --> 00:11:32,829 I ever really felt something and was aware 321 00:11:32,829 --> 00:11:34,129 that I was feeling it. 322 00:11:34,589 --> 00:11:36,049 It was such a profound 323 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:39,250 release, but also moment of 324 00:11:39,965 --> 00:11:41,805 connection. I think it's like the first time 325 00:11:41,805 --> 00:11:43,345 I felt human. 326 00:11:44,524 --> 00:11:47,325 That wasn't while I was feeling something really 327 00:11:47,325 --> 00:11:48,545 comfortable and great. 328 00:11:49,725 --> 00:11:50,625 It was feeling 329 00:11:51,325 --> 00:11:52,465 uncomfortable things, 330 00:11:53,165 --> 00:11:53,985 like shame. 331 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,340 It's so interesting too that now shame 332 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,220 is my favorite piece to teach 333 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,420 because it was so fully encapsulated 334 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,680 my experience as a human, just constantly living 335 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:07,820 through that belief. 336 00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:10,460 What do you love about that piece? 337 00:12:11,144 --> 00:12:12,445 I love that 338 00:12:13,704 --> 00:12:14,524 having the awareness 339 00:12:15,304 --> 00:12:15,964 of shame, 340 00:12:16,904 --> 00:12:17,964 having an understanding 341 00:12:18,345 --> 00:12:18,845 of 342 00:12:19,225 --> 00:12:23,384 what that emotional experience is and why it's 343 00:12:23,384 --> 00:12:26,220 there and learning to recognize it and separate 344 00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:26,960 from it 345 00:12:27,420 --> 00:12:28,879 is what allowed me 346 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:31,660 to go back to my life after the 347 00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:34,480 process and not live through it. 348 00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:37,180 So it feels like such a gift to 349 00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:38,320 teach that piece, 350 00:12:38,940 --> 00:12:40,480 to open people up 351 00:12:40,995 --> 00:12:42,774 because going toward it, 352 00:12:43,554 --> 00:12:46,774 as uncomfortable as it is, it's liberating. 353 00:12:47,634 --> 00:12:48,455 It's liberating 354 00:12:48,914 --> 00:12:50,835 to be able to see it and then 355 00:12:50,835 --> 00:12:52,615 see that it's not me. 356 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:55,899 I have a story I could share that 357 00:12:55,899 --> 00:12:58,779 came close after my process. So I'll start 358 00:12:58,779 --> 00:13:00,159 actually when I was a kid. 359 00:13:00,539 --> 00:13:02,559 I always struggled with 360 00:13:03,659 --> 00:13:04,159 reading. 361 00:13:05,019 --> 00:13:06,480 Reading was not 362 00:13:06,995 --> 00:13:10,274 easy. And I was always in the gifted 363 00:13:10,274 --> 00:13:10,774 classes, 364 00:13:11,394 --> 00:13:13,095 but I needed tutoring 365 00:13:13,475 --> 00:13:15,955 and summer school and all that kind of 366 00:13:15,955 --> 00:13:17,575 stuff for reading specifically. 367 00:13:18,514 --> 00:13:20,595 I think actually being in the gifted classes 368 00:13:20,595 --> 00:13:23,730 made me feel even more shame. I internalized 369 00:13:23,790 --> 00:13:25,330 this belief that I was stupid, 370 00:13:26,269 --> 00:13:28,529 which was one of my many shame beliefs. 371 00:13:29,389 --> 00:13:31,570 And as a kid, I always had 372 00:13:32,110 --> 00:13:34,610 issues. I had, like, headaches and eye problems, 373 00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:37,375 and I was seeing doctors all the time. 374 00:13:37,375 --> 00:13:37,875 And 375 00:13:38,334 --> 00:13:41,315 the eye doctors always struggled to diagnose me. 376 00:13:41,615 --> 00:13:43,054 They were, like, could tell there was some 377 00:13:43,054 --> 00:13:44,654 kind of problem, but they couldn't figure out 378 00:13:44,654 --> 00:13:47,054 what it was. And I remember I have 379 00:13:47,054 --> 00:13:49,700 a core memory of a doctor telling me 380 00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:52,259 that diagnosing me was like throwing darts at 381 00:13:52,259 --> 00:13:52,839 a dartboard. 382 00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:56,419 I remember being this little kid, and in 383 00:13:56,419 --> 00:13:58,919 that moment, that feeling of, like, 384 00:13:59,299 --> 00:14:01,700 I messed up. Something must be wrong with 385 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,045 me. They can't figure me out. Even these, 386 00:14:04,045 --> 00:14:06,205 like, smart people can't figure me out. So 387 00:14:06,205 --> 00:14:07,745 I go through my life internalizing 388 00:14:08,045 --> 00:14:10,144 this belief that I'm stupid. 389 00:14:11,245 --> 00:14:13,565 Probably two months after my process, I go 390 00:14:13,565 --> 00:14:14,065 to 391 00:14:14,524 --> 00:14:15,985 a routine eye exam, 392 00:14:16,365 --> 00:14:16,865 and 393 00:14:17,399 --> 00:14:18,059 the doctor 394 00:14:19,079 --> 00:14:21,899 diagnoses me with something called convergence 395 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:22,779 insufficiency, 396 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:25,899 which I had never heard of. But, basically, 397 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,139 my eyes work 398 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:29,019 perfectly 399 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:29,980 individually, 400 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,379 separately, but they don't work well together. 401 00:14:32,815 --> 00:14:34,654 He tells me that the diagnosis didn't exist 402 00:14:34,654 --> 00:14:35,935 when I was a kid, so, like, they 403 00:14:35,935 --> 00:14:38,014 couldn't have known, but he couldn't believe that 404 00:14:38,014 --> 00:14:39,315 I had graduated 405 00:14:39,615 --> 00:14:42,415 high school with the diagnosis and not having 406 00:14:42,415 --> 00:14:43,154 been treated. 407 00:14:43,695 --> 00:14:45,475 Immediately when he said that, 408 00:14:46,110 --> 00:14:48,190 I again, this is two months out of 409 00:14:48,190 --> 00:14:51,149 my process, so I'm very attuned and aware 410 00:14:51,149 --> 00:14:53,549 and using my tools and present to it. 411 00:14:53,549 --> 00:14:55,710 And I immediately can name, like, oh, I'm 412 00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:58,129 in shame right now. And I felt 413 00:14:58,674 --> 00:15:01,075 my shame response is so visceral. It feels 414 00:15:01,075 --> 00:15:02,134 like this metal 415 00:15:03,154 --> 00:15:04,535 lava in my 416 00:15:04,995 --> 00:15:05,495 throat 417 00:15:06,355 --> 00:15:08,195 and, like, upper chest. And I know. When 418 00:15:08,195 --> 00:15:09,014 I feel that, 419 00:15:09,634 --> 00:15:10,774 I know it's shame. 420 00:15:11,389 --> 00:15:13,710 It's such an alarm for me now. And 421 00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:15,009 so I felt that 422 00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:17,649 I was able to notice it 423 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:19,490 and name, 424 00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:21,490 like, oh, this is shame 425 00:15:21,790 --> 00:15:23,904 right now. And, typically, that's happening. Like, my 426 00:15:23,904 --> 00:15:25,585 whole life before the process, that had been 427 00:15:25,585 --> 00:15:26,725 happening in the background, 428 00:15:28,065 --> 00:15:29,365 dictating my behavior. 429 00:15:30,065 --> 00:15:32,625 And now I was able to go, oh, 430 00:15:32,625 --> 00:15:33,445 wait a second. 431 00:15:34,065 --> 00:15:38,004 Name it, separate from it, which allowed me, 432 00:15:38,649 --> 00:15:42,330 one, to be somewhat compassionate with myself, but 433 00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:42,830 also, 434 00:15:43,529 --> 00:15:44,830 really, I got curious. 435 00:15:45,529 --> 00:15:46,590 And I realized 436 00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:49,370 right after that, it was like the shame 437 00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:52,730 dismantled and then came this insight, this moment 438 00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:54,865 of, oh my gosh. This diagnosis 439 00:15:55,725 --> 00:15:56,225 validates 440 00:15:57,004 --> 00:15:58,625 my whole life experience. 441 00:15:59,245 --> 00:16:01,024 It makes so much sense now 442 00:16:01,725 --> 00:16:04,044 why I had all these challenges. And then 443 00:16:04,044 --> 00:16:07,585 came this thought, maybe I'm not stupid. 444 00:16:09,370 --> 00:16:09,870 Maybe 445 00:16:11,049 --> 00:16:12,589 I just have this difference 446 00:16:13,209 --> 00:16:13,709 that 447 00:16:14,089 --> 00:16:14,589 needs 448 00:16:15,049 --> 00:16:15,549 support. 449 00:16:16,409 --> 00:16:18,409 And so I got the support. I got 450 00:16:18,409 --> 00:16:20,649 these special glasses and tools for reading and 451 00:16:20,649 --> 00:16:22,845 that kind of thing. And reading had always 452 00:16:22,845 --> 00:16:25,404 been this dreadful, terrible thing. I, like, never 453 00:16:25,404 --> 00:16:27,485 wanted to read as an adult. I think 454 00:16:27,485 --> 00:16:29,725 the next year after that, I read something 455 00:16:29,725 --> 00:16:33,264 like 100 literally 100 books that year 456 00:16:33,965 --> 00:16:35,904 all on, like, mindfulness and 457 00:16:36,649 --> 00:16:38,190 being human and philosophy 458 00:16:40,170 --> 00:16:41,870 and this new interest of mine 459 00:16:42,410 --> 00:16:44,649 spurred by the process. And that's what led 460 00:16:44,649 --> 00:16:46,490 me to go back to grad school for 461 00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:48,009 mindfulness. I mean, I never thought I'd go 462 00:16:48,009 --> 00:16:50,574 back to school. This this changed the whole 463 00:16:50,714 --> 00:16:53,194 trajectory of my life. Right? Like, I wouldn't 464 00:16:53,194 --> 00:16:54,735 be a Hoffman process teacher 465 00:16:55,355 --> 00:16:57,674 if all of that hadn't happened, if I 466 00:16:57,674 --> 00:16:59,914 had kept living through that belief that I 467 00:16:59,914 --> 00:17:01,214 was stupid. 468 00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:03,850 So it was just so powerful 469 00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:04,809 to 470 00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:06,089 realize 471 00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:07,450 the concept, 472 00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:08,809 the feeling, 473 00:17:09,269 --> 00:17:10,970 how to navigate it, 474 00:17:11,269 --> 00:17:12,410 and how to 475 00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:15,289 not fuse with it 476 00:17:15,670 --> 00:17:18,664 so that I can stay connected to what's 477 00:17:18,664 --> 00:17:19,644 true and 478 00:17:19,945 --> 00:17:22,585 remember even if I feel the shame at 479 00:17:22,585 --> 00:17:23,085 times 480 00:17:23,785 --> 00:17:25,325 that it's not 481 00:17:25,705 --> 00:17:26,205 me. 482 00:17:26,904 --> 00:17:28,585 You know, that's not a moment that happened 483 00:17:28,585 --> 00:17:30,605 in my process, but I very directly 484 00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:33,140 correlated it to the work that I did 485 00:17:33,140 --> 00:17:33,640 there. 486 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:36,019 And I still see that when I teach 487 00:17:36,019 --> 00:17:36,840 that today. 488 00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:39,700 It's making me wonder why I've never talked 489 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:42,259 about this at the process, actually, now that 490 00:17:42,259 --> 00:17:43,960 I'm, like, saying it here 491 00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:45,080 because 492 00:17:45,904 --> 00:17:48,704 it's changed my life being willing to go 493 00:17:48,704 --> 00:17:50,544 there, and I'm so grateful for the process 494 00:17:50,544 --> 00:17:52,784 for that. It sounds like it gave you 495 00:17:52,784 --> 00:17:55,585 a physical sense of what that experience is 496 00:17:55,585 --> 00:17:58,544 like. Oh, that's what's happening here. This is 497 00:17:58,544 --> 00:17:59,044 shame. 498 00:17:59,345 --> 00:18:01,750 Yeah. It was so helpful, actually, to be 499 00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:03,690 able to name it in my body because 500 00:18:04,309 --> 00:18:05,930 that became the alarm. 501 00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:08,570 Sometimes when I'm feeling something, 502 00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:11,029 I don't know. I can't name the feeling 503 00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:11,690 right away, 504 00:18:12,274 --> 00:18:14,835 but I can become aware of the body 505 00:18:14,835 --> 00:18:16,994 sensations. And I know everybody's different, and different 506 00:18:16,994 --> 00:18:18,994 people feel in different ways. But for me, 507 00:18:18,994 --> 00:18:21,815 the body sensations are quite strong, and so 508 00:18:22,194 --> 00:18:23,095 that understanding, 509 00:18:24,849 --> 00:18:26,309 now when I feel that, 510 00:18:26,609 --> 00:18:29,109 it's a chance to go like, okay. Pause. 511 00:18:30,450 --> 00:18:31,750 What's happening here? 512 00:18:32,210 --> 00:18:34,289 Instead of before where I would notice how 513 00:18:34,289 --> 00:18:37,169 uncomfortable it was, probably subconsciously, and then just 514 00:18:37,169 --> 00:18:38,690 try to get away from it and then 515 00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:40,265 numb to survive. 516 00:18:40,965 --> 00:18:41,465 Shame, 517 00:18:41,845 --> 00:18:45,045 as we know, as we teach, thrives in 518 00:18:45,045 --> 00:18:48,164 this belief that it's because of who you 519 00:18:48,164 --> 00:18:50,805 are that you suffered or that you do 520 00:18:50,805 --> 00:18:52,105 continue to suffer. 521 00:18:52,644 --> 00:18:54,025 I am not my patterns 522 00:18:55,539 --> 00:18:57,619 applies. We say that at the process. I'm 523 00:18:57,619 --> 00:19:00,019 not my patterns, and it's true with shame. 524 00:19:00,019 --> 00:19:01,799 I am not my shame. And 525 00:19:02,339 --> 00:19:02,839 now 526 00:19:03,619 --> 00:19:06,019 shame is so self oriented. When it comes 527 00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:07,320 up, it feels like 528 00:19:07,664 --> 00:19:09,744 it's confirming, like, no. It is who I 529 00:19:09,744 --> 00:19:10,884 am. I am bad. 530 00:19:11,505 --> 00:19:13,205 And so to be able to 531 00:19:13,585 --> 00:19:16,705 now have access to this intelligence where I 532 00:19:16,705 --> 00:19:19,285 can see it and separate from it, 533 00:19:19,904 --> 00:19:20,625 it feels like 534 00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:23,240 I don't know. It just feels like what 535 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,919 else could I need? You know? And it 536 00:19:24,919 --> 00:19:25,579 was this 537 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,460 affirmation 538 00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:28,059 or reassurance 539 00:19:28,519 --> 00:19:30,779 that I have everything I need. 540 00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:33,500 I can be okay in the present moment 541 00:19:34,024 --> 00:19:36,505 with everything I already have. It's all been 542 00:19:36,505 --> 00:19:38,684 like this domino effect of 543 00:19:38,984 --> 00:19:39,484 understanding 544 00:19:40,184 --> 00:19:42,924 the power of emotions and shame and navigating 545 00:19:42,984 --> 00:19:45,625 it and where happiness is really gonna come 546 00:19:45,625 --> 00:19:49,269 from, and it's a liberation for me. What 547 00:19:49,269 --> 00:19:51,669 even opened your mind to consider taking the 548 00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:52,169 process? 549 00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:54,309 When I did the process, there was no 550 00:19:54,309 --> 00:19:57,509 social media about it. Everybody found out from 551 00:19:57,509 --> 00:20:00,409 word-of-mouth, and I actually found out 552 00:20:00,869 --> 00:20:01,369 from 553 00:20:01,835 --> 00:20:02,974 my yoga teacher. 554 00:20:04,075 --> 00:20:06,234 I was not particularly close to her, but 555 00:20:06,234 --> 00:20:08,315 I went to this yoga class three times 556 00:20:08,315 --> 00:20:10,634 a week. It was a safe space for 557 00:20:10,634 --> 00:20:12,555 me, and she told us she was gonna 558 00:20:12,555 --> 00:20:14,154 be gone for a week. And I was 559 00:20:14,154 --> 00:20:16,255 pissed. I was like, where are you going? 560 00:20:17,049 --> 00:20:19,049 And she said she was going to the 561 00:20:19,049 --> 00:20:21,230 Hoffman process, and I looked it up. 562 00:20:21,609 --> 00:20:22,109 And 563 00:20:22,410 --> 00:20:25,049 I watched the little video, and I had 564 00:20:25,049 --> 00:20:25,549 been 565 00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:28,170 having a lot of stress come up with 566 00:20:28,170 --> 00:20:28,670 family 567 00:20:29,434 --> 00:20:31,595 separately. And I watched the video, and I 568 00:20:31,595 --> 00:20:34,154 was like, oh my gosh. This is exactly 569 00:20:34,154 --> 00:20:36,095 what is coming up for me right now. 570 00:20:36,394 --> 00:20:37,134 I called 571 00:20:37,515 --> 00:20:39,275 back when you could do this, and they're 572 00:20:39,275 --> 00:20:40,894 like, we can get you in two weeks. 573 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,640 I went two weeks later. I, like, literally 574 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,140 knew nothing else about it. Didn't know 575 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,519 what was gonna happen. Didn't know anyone who 576 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:50,680 had actually done it yet because my yoga 577 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,000 teacher was going, like, the next week. But 578 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,545 there was something, I guess, spirit 579 00:20:56,085 --> 00:20:57,625 that just sort of said, 580 00:20:58,244 --> 00:20:59,144 this is it. 581 00:20:59,924 --> 00:21:02,825 And I went, and it was, I guess. 582 00:21:03,605 --> 00:21:05,525 A lot of people are listening to this 583 00:21:05,525 --> 00:21:07,400 podcast post process as process 584 00:21:08,099 --> 00:21:09,380 as grads, but a lot of people are 585 00:21:09,380 --> 00:21:10,920 listening to it because they're trying to figure 586 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:11,640 out if those 587 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:13,480 little hints or those bread crumbs 588 00:21:13,779 --> 00:21:14,599 can be trusted. 589 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:18,180 Yeah. And I think that I can look 590 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:18,920 back now 591 00:21:19,894 --> 00:21:21,514 and see many breadcrumbs 592 00:21:21,974 --> 00:21:24,534 that happened throughout my life, some that I 593 00:21:24,534 --> 00:21:26,315 listened to and some that I didn't, 594 00:21:27,335 --> 00:21:27,835 but 595 00:21:28,454 --> 00:21:29,115 I didn't 596 00:21:29,815 --> 00:21:31,274 know they were important 597 00:21:31,815 --> 00:21:32,315 then. 598 00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:35,250 I can now look back 599 00:21:35,789 --> 00:21:37,309 and see that. And I wish I could 600 00:21:37,309 --> 00:21:40,029 go back and tell her, like, wait. This 601 00:21:40,029 --> 00:21:40,769 one matters. 602 00:21:41,390 --> 00:21:42,289 I can intellectually 603 00:21:43,470 --> 00:21:46,109 more so than emotionally remember, I think, because 604 00:21:46,109 --> 00:21:47,410 I was so disconnected 605 00:21:48,414 --> 00:21:51,214 emotionally, but just having the sense that, is 606 00:21:51,214 --> 00:21:53,154 this it? Is this it? 607 00:21:53,775 --> 00:21:55,075 What else is there? 608 00:21:55,775 --> 00:21:57,154 You know, at 27, 609 00:21:57,214 --> 00:21:58,035 I was like, 610 00:21:58,494 --> 00:22:00,494 am I just gonna keep doing this, playing 611 00:22:00,494 --> 00:22:01,234 this game 612 00:22:01,849 --> 00:22:02,509 for what? 613 00:22:03,289 --> 00:22:03,869 Like, everybody, 614 00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:04,750 society, 615 00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:06,890 adults told me this is what I'm supposed 616 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:08,410 to do, and I'm not quite getting it. 617 00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:10,570 Like, something must not be clicking, and it 618 00:22:10,570 --> 00:22:12,730 must be me. So you come to the 619 00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:13,230 process, 620 00:22:13,815 --> 00:22:16,154 have the courage to move towards shame, 621 00:22:16,454 --> 00:22:19,095 and then you realize it's not true. You 622 00:22:19,095 --> 00:22:21,494 feel it in your body. You go out 623 00:22:21,494 --> 00:22:23,654 into your life, and now you know, oh, 624 00:22:23,654 --> 00:22:25,274 this experience is shame. 625 00:22:25,894 --> 00:22:27,994 What happens next for you? 626 00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:29,210 Well, 627 00:22:30,150 --> 00:22:30,970 I was 628 00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:32,650 a good student. 629 00:22:33,509 --> 00:22:36,150 Despite feeling stupid in school, I always really 630 00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:36,650 tried. 631 00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:38,809 I was a good Hoffman student. 632 00:22:39,269 --> 00:22:40,250 I was a good 633 00:22:40,634 --> 00:22:43,434 post process Hoffman student in terms of, like, 634 00:22:43,434 --> 00:22:44,575 using my tools. 635 00:22:45,195 --> 00:22:47,055 And what happened after 636 00:22:47,914 --> 00:22:48,414 is 637 00:22:49,275 --> 00:22:50,575 I became so 638 00:22:51,755 --> 00:22:52,255 drawn 639 00:22:52,634 --> 00:22:53,535 to the freedom 640 00:22:54,569 --> 00:22:57,369 that I almost got a little trapped in 641 00:22:57,369 --> 00:22:57,869 it. 642 00:22:58,490 --> 00:22:59,390 So I 643 00:23:00,169 --> 00:23:00,669 was 644 00:23:01,049 --> 00:23:02,750 very good at using my tools, 645 00:23:03,369 --> 00:23:05,950 but my personal growth work became like another 646 00:23:06,169 --> 00:23:06,669 productivity 647 00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:07,470 project. 648 00:23:07,929 --> 00:23:09,309 The doing was back, 649 00:23:09,644 --> 00:23:11,484 I guess, even though I was on this 650 00:23:11,484 --> 00:23:13,505 path to, like, come you know, being. 651 00:23:13,965 --> 00:23:15,984 And it was harder to spot this time 652 00:23:16,765 --> 00:23:17,265 because 653 00:23:17,884 --> 00:23:19,984 I thought it there was this veil 654 00:23:20,684 --> 00:23:21,184 of 655 00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:23,519 personal growth and spirituality. 656 00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:25,980 Like, it's in service of these things, and 657 00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:28,539 so I have to do the quad check 658 00:23:28,539 --> 00:23:30,539 and the tools and the meditation and all 659 00:23:30,539 --> 00:23:31,279 these things. 660 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:33,500 I had an insight one day when I 661 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:35,200 was doing my gratitude practice 662 00:23:35,775 --> 00:23:37,934 at the process. We start a gratitude practice 663 00:23:37,934 --> 00:23:39,615 for everyone. Everyone does you know, writes down 664 00:23:39,615 --> 00:23:41,375 three things they're grateful for every day, and 665 00:23:41,375 --> 00:23:43,615 I kept doing that after. And I had 666 00:23:43,615 --> 00:23:44,835 a moment where I realized, 667 00:23:45,615 --> 00:23:48,275 this is rote. I'm just writing things down. 668 00:23:48,769 --> 00:23:50,529 I'm not even really paying attention to what 669 00:23:50,529 --> 00:23:52,369 I'm writing. I'm doing it to check it 670 00:23:52,369 --> 00:23:54,869 off the list. I'm not really feeling gratitude. 671 00:23:55,809 --> 00:23:58,690 That moment of insight was like, oh, how 672 00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:00,450 much of that is happening in the rest 673 00:24:00,450 --> 00:24:02,609 of my work too? Like, I'm doing a 674 00:24:02,609 --> 00:24:03,429 quad check, 675 00:24:03,884 --> 00:24:06,205 but my intellect is actually doing the whole 676 00:24:06,205 --> 00:24:09,345 check. My intellect is telling me my body 677 00:24:09,404 --> 00:24:12,205 needs to drink more water and exercise. But 678 00:24:12,205 --> 00:24:13,805 is my body telling me that? My body's 679 00:24:13,805 --> 00:24:15,505 actually telling me you need to go sleep. 680 00:24:15,964 --> 00:24:16,945 Right? And so 681 00:24:17,404 --> 00:24:18,945 it was very covert. 682 00:24:19,910 --> 00:24:22,569 The conditioning doesn't it runs so deep. 683 00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:25,929 It did not disappear. It sort of evolved. 684 00:24:26,069 --> 00:24:28,250 And so what was next was me 685 00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:30,250 seeing through that 686 00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:31,130 and 687 00:24:31,684 --> 00:24:33,845 being on that nonlinear path, which it is 688 00:24:33,845 --> 00:24:35,765 for everyone. Everyone's on their own path, and 689 00:24:35,765 --> 00:24:38,484 it's it's never a straight line, but that 690 00:24:38,484 --> 00:24:40,404 was a part of mine was sort of 691 00:24:40,404 --> 00:24:40,904 overcorrecting. 692 00:24:42,244 --> 00:24:44,085 I think that's part of why I was 693 00:24:44,085 --> 00:24:46,664 drawn to being a Hoffman process teacher. 694 00:24:47,339 --> 00:24:48,240 There's a quote, 695 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:50,559 we teach what we need to learn. 696 00:24:51,179 --> 00:24:52,480 I love that quote. 697 00:24:53,019 --> 00:24:55,740 I felt like doing this work in that 698 00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:57,740 context keeps the work alive in me, which 699 00:24:57,740 --> 00:24:58,400 it does. 700 00:24:58,859 --> 00:24:59,355 But 701 00:24:59,835 --> 00:25:02,634 every time I go teach a process, I'm 702 00:25:02,634 --> 00:25:05,375 not doing my own process. It's a different 703 00:25:05,914 --> 00:25:06,414 experience. 704 00:25:07,355 --> 00:25:10,095 And what I've learned now is that 705 00:25:11,434 --> 00:25:14,394 when I'm at a process, it's mirroring my 706 00:25:14,394 --> 00:25:16,350 work to me in a different way. Not 707 00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:18,369 because I'm going through it as a student, 708 00:25:18,990 --> 00:25:20,450 but it's showing me 709 00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:23,809 the gaps. And it was through other students, 710 00:25:23,869 --> 00:25:26,269 actually. Like, the students become a mirror for 711 00:25:26,269 --> 00:25:28,805 me when I would see students starting to 712 00:25:28,805 --> 00:25:29,305 overcorrect 713 00:25:30,244 --> 00:25:32,725 or after they finish the process on post 714 00:25:32,725 --> 00:25:34,105 process calls or coaching, 715 00:25:34,725 --> 00:25:37,924 and they start beating themselves up for having 716 00:25:37,924 --> 00:25:38,424 patterns 717 00:25:39,205 --> 00:25:41,205 or not using the tools enough. And I'm 718 00:25:41,205 --> 00:25:42,184 saying to them, 719 00:25:42,910 --> 00:25:44,589 the point of the Hoffman process isn't to 720 00:25:44,589 --> 00:25:45,869 get a bunch of tools, it's to live 721 00:25:45,869 --> 00:25:46,609 your life. 722 00:25:47,309 --> 00:25:49,009 You know? And then I'm like, wait. 723 00:25:49,309 --> 00:25:50,210 Am I listening 724 00:25:50,589 --> 00:25:52,289 to what I'm saying right now? 725 00:25:54,430 --> 00:25:56,930 So that was where I went with it. 726 00:25:57,515 --> 00:25:59,755 I love that. I can actually see life 727 00:25:59,755 --> 00:26:02,255 becoming this beautiful friend to you 728 00:26:02,714 --> 00:26:03,214 where 729 00:26:03,674 --> 00:26:04,174 whatever 730 00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:07,355 you think you've figured out, it's like, and 731 00:26:07,355 --> 00:26:10,380 here's this, my love. Take a look. Yeah. 732 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:13,099 It really is. And now I'm much more 733 00:26:13,099 --> 00:26:15,119 in a surrender of 734 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:17,599 whatever is being put in front of me. 735 00:26:18,140 --> 00:26:19,839 I don't feel like I'm having to actively 736 00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,220 try so hard to do the work because 737 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:23,900 it's just there, and now I'm less afraid 738 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:25,234 of it. For me, I feel like there's 739 00:26:25,234 --> 00:26:26,134 been a tipping 740 00:26:26,914 --> 00:26:28,674 point, not where we ever stop doing the 741 00:26:28,674 --> 00:26:29,494 work, but 742 00:26:29,795 --> 00:26:31,174 I think it's that I've become 743 00:26:32,035 --> 00:26:33,795 free of the illusion that it's ever gonna 744 00:26:33,795 --> 00:26:35,955 end. And now it's just a part of 745 00:26:35,955 --> 00:26:37,414 the journey, and now 746 00:26:37,955 --> 00:26:39,974 it lets me really focus on being 747 00:26:40,829 --> 00:26:43,490 and remembering the point of all of this. 748 00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:45,809 I've been thinking a lot actually about 749 00:26:46,269 --> 00:26:48,909 a part of my first process that in 750 00:26:48,909 --> 00:26:51,230 the moment, I didn't realize how important it 751 00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:54,744 was. But now, eight years later, I'm like, 752 00:26:54,744 --> 00:26:56,605 oh, this was a really important part, 753 00:26:56,984 --> 00:26:57,884 and that was 754 00:26:58,585 --> 00:27:00,204 the portion on play. 755 00:27:01,304 --> 00:27:02,684 When that part came around 756 00:27:03,065 --> 00:27:03,724 at my 757 00:27:04,184 --> 00:27:05,644 first process, it was 758 00:27:06,345 --> 00:27:06,845 intolerable 759 00:27:07,730 --> 00:27:09,590 to me. Like, I remember 760 00:27:10,450 --> 00:27:11,750 seeing everybody else 761 00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:13,190 get so excited 762 00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:16,849 to play and kind of happy for a 763 00:27:16,849 --> 00:27:18,549 break. I I at least I perceived, 764 00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:21,375 you know, that they were happy even though 765 00:27:21,595 --> 00:27:23,694 now I know not everybody was. 766 00:27:24,554 --> 00:27:27,054 But while everybody's playing, my intellect 767 00:27:27,355 --> 00:27:29,054 was like, we gotta get back to work. 768 00:27:29,914 --> 00:27:32,075 I realized I didn't actually know how to 769 00:27:32,075 --> 00:27:33,294 play. I never really 770 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:36,220 got to just play. As a kid, it 771 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:37,599 was always about work. 772 00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:39,660 So on the portion of play in the 773 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:40,859 process, I was kind of like in a 774 00:27:40,859 --> 00:27:41,759 corner dissociating 775 00:27:42,299 --> 00:27:44,380 while everyone was playing, and I was waiting 776 00:27:44,380 --> 00:27:45,519 for it to be over. 777 00:27:46,154 --> 00:27:46,654 After 778 00:27:46,955 --> 00:27:48,795 a couple of really powerful days at the 779 00:27:48,795 --> 00:27:49,295 process, 780 00:27:50,315 --> 00:27:51,295 this play portion 781 00:27:51,595 --> 00:27:53,535 forced me to confront this, 782 00:27:53,994 --> 00:27:55,134 what is the point? 783 00:27:56,075 --> 00:27:58,494 What is the point of this human experience? 784 00:27:58,555 --> 00:28:00,630 What's the point of all the work if 785 00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:02,009 there's not gonna be joy? 786 00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:04,950 Joy, what I see, what I learn is 787 00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:06,250 that it's not optional 788 00:28:06,869 --> 00:28:07,369 for 789 00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:08,970 a meaningful 790 00:28:09,509 --> 00:28:10,009 life. 791 00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:13,269 It's not gonna come from something outside of 792 00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:15,644 me. And that's where my work has been 793 00:28:15,644 --> 00:28:17,804 these last couple of years as I reflect 794 00:28:17,804 --> 00:28:20,044 back on that girl who went into the 795 00:28:20,044 --> 00:28:20,544 process, 796 00:28:21,005 --> 00:28:23,804 numb, wanting joy. The joy comes around. She 797 00:28:23,804 --> 00:28:26,684 couldn't hold it. She's like, I'm not ready 798 00:28:26,684 --> 00:28:29,200 for this, and wasn't even ready to process 799 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,419 that part of it until 800 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:33,519 these last few years. And so I think 801 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:35,759 that's, as I'm saying it, a very powerful 802 00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:37,059 piece too that the process 803 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:40,000 still lives in me today. That first process, 804 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,619 I'm still learning from 805 00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:43,220 today. And 806 00:28:44,105 --> 00:28:46,025 it's so fascinating to reflect in that way. 807 00:28:46,025 --> 00:28:47,325 I'm so grateful for it. 808 00:28:47,865 --> 00:28:50,664 Now post process, you have a podcast that 809 00:28:50,664 --> 00:28:51,884 is about savoring 810 00:28:52,505 --> 00:28:53,244 an experience, 811 00:28:53,705 --> 00:28:54,765 and you're describing 812 00:28:55,305 --> 00:28:57,950 in your gratitude practice the difference of really 813 00:28:57,950 --> 00:28:59,329 being there to enjoy. 814 00:29:00,190 --> 00:29:01,970 What I'm really hearing you say 815 00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:05,089 is there's no box you can check 816 00:29:05,710 --> 00:29:07,409 or tool that you can execute 817 00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:10,384 that can really make you enjoy your life? 818 00:29:10,444 --> 00:29:10,944 What 819 00:29:11,244 --> 00:29:13,664 can what has it been for you? 820 00:29:14,525 --> 00:29:15,825 For me, it's been 821 00:29:16,525 --> 00:29:17,025 being. 822 00:29:17,404 --> 00:29:20,204 It's being. It's realizing I'm a human being. 823 00:29:20,204 --> 00:29:22,590 I mean, I left the process. I remember 824 00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:24,509 you make a commitment or a vow on 825 00:29:24,509 --> 00:29:26,830 the last day. I remember my vow was 826 00:29:26,830 --> 00:29:27,970 I vow to be. 827 00:29:28,509 --> 00:29:29,009 And 828 00:29:29,549 --> 00:29:31,630 my post process weekend was such a magical 829 00:29:31,630 --> 00:29:32,130 weekend. 830 00:29:32,744 --> 00:29:34,984 It was so beautiful, so many magical moments, 831 00:29:34,984 --> 00:29:36,345 but one of them is I walked into 832 00:29:36,345 --> 00:29:38,345 a tattoo shop and got bee tattooed on 833 00:29:38,345 --> 00:29:39,085 my arm 834 00:29:39,545 --> 00:29:40,684 because I was like, 835 00:29:41,065 --> 00:29:42,285 I am so committed 836 00:29:43,065 --> 00:29:44,984 to this question of what does it mean 837 00:29:44,984 --> 00:29:45,724 to be, 838 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,599 and that so much of my learning of 839 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:50,940 what it means to be came from meditation 840 00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:53,159 and mindfulness and learning what it means to 841 00:29:53,159 --> 00:29:55,500 be in the present moment. But I think 842 00:29:55,559 --> 00:29:56,940 in Hoffman terms, 843 00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:00,619 it's being my spiritual self. It's being 844 00:30:01,384 --> 00:30:02,684 authentic and true. 845 00:30:03,144 --> 00:30:05,164 And in a moment of presence, 846 00:30:06,184 --> 00:30:08,264 I am my spiritual self. I am my 847 00:30:08,264 --> 00:30:11,565 authentic self, and that's where the joy exists. 848 00:30:11,625 --> 00:30:14,504 Joy can never exist in some moment outside 849 00:30:14,504 --> 00:30:15,244 of now. 850 00:30:15,849 --> 00:30:17,069 It can't be yesterday. 851 00:30:17,769 --> 00:30:19,690 I hope it comes tomorrow, but I can 852 00:30:19,690 --> 00:30:21,470 only experience it now. 853 00:30:22,089 --> 00:30:23,690 So I think what it means for me 854 00:30:23,690 --> 00:30:25,389 is how can I be here 855 00:30:25,929 --> 00:30:26,429 more 856 00:30:27,129 --> 00:30:30,089 and notice the moment and feel it so 857 00:30:30,089 --> 00:30:30,909 that I can 858 00:30:31,375 --> 00:30:33,294 relish it? That's why the podcast is called 859 00:30:33,294 --> 00:30:33,794 Relish. 860 00:30:34,174 --> 00:30:35,554 What's one final 861 00:30:36,174 --> 00:30:38,654 tidbit, fun fact about you that you'd like 862 00:30:38,654 --> 00:30:40,674 to leave our listeners with? 863 00:30:41,134 --> 00:30:42,434 A fun fact 864 00:30:43,214 --> 00:30:44,194 is that 865 00:30:45,309 --> 00:30:47,250 I just started playing pickleball, 866 00:30:48,109 --> 00:30:49,650 which is bringing me joy. 867 00:30:50,190 --> 00:30:50,690 And 868 00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:53,549 a final note about me, I guess, just 869 00:30:53,549 --> 00:30:56,049 that none of us escape being human. 870 00:30:57,549 --> 00:30:58,450 We are all 871 00:30:59,674 --> 00:31:01,615 imperfect and also, 872 00:31:02,554 --> 00:31:04,414 like, whole and lovable, and 873 00:31:05,275 --> 00:31:06,095 that includes 874 00:31:06,795 --> 00:31:07,775 teachers too. 875 00:31:08,554 --> 00:31:10,015 I used to believe that 876 00:31:10,634 --> 00:31:12,815 I needed to transcend being human 877 00:31:13,210 --> 00:31:15,450 to be enough, and now I see that 878 00:31:15,450 --> 00:31:16,750 being human is 879 00:31:17,289 --> 00:31:18,830 the sacred experience. 880 00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:19,710 So 881 00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:21,769 I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful to be 882 00:31:21,769 --> 00:31:23,470 on this journey. I'm grateful for 883 00:31:23,850 --> 00:31:26,375 the process that led me to it, and 884 00:31:26,375 --> 00:31:28,695 I'm grateful to share it here with you 885 00:31:28,695 --> 00:31:29,355 in this 886 00:31:29,975 --> 00:31:32,934 episode and on my podcast and just with 887 00:31:32,934 --> 00:31:35,494 students when I get to interact with them 888 00:31:35,494 --> 00:31:35,994 on-site. 889 00:31:36,535 --> 00:31:39,035 Thank you so much for sharing your 890 00:31:39,460 --> 00:31:41,619 humanness and showing us a bit of a 891 00:31:41,619 --> 00:31:44,019 different lens into who you are. I love 892 00:31:44,019 --> 00:31:45,720 the idea of you playing pickleball. 893 00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:48,820 I'm really happy that we had a chance 894 00:31:48,820 --> 00:31:49,880 to have this conversation. 895 00:31:50,340 --> 00:31:52,279 Yeah. Thanks, Sadie. I appreciate you. 896 00:32:02,535 --> 00:32:04,634 Thank you for listening to the Hoffman Podcast. 897 00:32:05,095 --> 00:32:07,269 My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO 898 00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:08,890 of the Hoffman Institute Foundation 899 00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:11,509 and a Hoffman teacher. Our mission is to 900 00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:14,070 provide greater access to the wisdom and power 901 00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:16,970 of love within ourselves, in our relationships, 902 00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:19,904 and in the world. To learn more or 903 00:32:19,904 --> 00:32:21,904 to support our mission, we invite you to 904 00:32:21,904 --> 00:32:24,484 visit hoffmaninstitute.org.