1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,359 Sometimes you can feel a little bit woo 2 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:05,459 woo. You know, you're too far out there, 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,339 and you know your experiences have been powerful. 4 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:11,460 But, like, who do you tell those experiences 5 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:13,699 to, and who will appreciate 6 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:15,779 how powerful they were? 7 00:00:16,274 --> 00:00:18,454 And that was, I found, really very 8 00:00:18,914 --> 00:00:19,414 important 9 00:00:19,795 --> 00:00:21,414 for me in the process 10 00:00:21,875 --> 00:00:23,815 of connecting with other people. 11 00:00:25,234 --> 00:00:28,114 Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and 12 00:00:28,114 --> 00:00:31,015 this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius. 13 00:00:31,850 --> 00:00:33,789 It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute 14 00:00:34,250 --> 00:00:36,829 and its stories and anecdotes 15 00:00:37,530 --> 00:00:38,990 and people we interview 16 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:40,990 about their life post process 17 00:00:41,369 --> 00:00:43,950 and how it lives in the world radiating 18 00:00:44,250 --> 00:00:44,750 love. 19 00:00:45,365 --> 00:00:47,865 Please be aware that this episode references 20 00:00:48,564 --> 00:00:50,104 intense emotional content, 21 00:00:50,484 --> 00:00:50,984 racism, 22 00:00:51,365 --> 00:00:51,865 and 23 00:00:52,244 --> 00:00:52,744 suicide. 24 00:00:53,445 --> 00:00:55,704 If you or someone you know is suicidal, 25 00:00:55,844 --> 00:00:58,185 please reach out to the National Suicide Prevention 26 00:00:58,405 --> 00:00:58,905 Lifeline 27 00:00:59,350 --> 00:01:01,269 at +1 80273 28 00:01:03,030 --> 00:01:06,729 +1 802738255, 29 00:01:07,109 --> 00:01:12,250 or message the crisis text line at 741741. 30 00:01:21,564 --> 00:01:24,125 Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. Jim 31 00:01:24,125 --> 00:01:26,704 Bonilla is with us. Welcome, Jim. 32 00:01:27,209 --> 00:01:29,630 Good morning. Or I guess it's good morning. 33 00:01:30,409 --> 00:01:33,209 Yeah. It is. It is great to have 34 00:01:33,209 --> 00:01:35,469 you on the show today and to 35 00:01:35,770 --> 00:01:38,010 have you tell your story a little bit. 36 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:40,189 And you were just sharing that in preparation 37 00:01:40,250 --> 00:01:42,829 for this interview, you what did you do? 38 00:01:43,185 --> 00:01:45,504 Well, I was thinking about who I was 39 00:01:45,504 --> 00:01:46,325 pre Hoffman, 40 00:01:46,944 --> 00:01:49,525 what the experiences were during Hoffman, 41 00:01:50,224 --> 00:01:53,344 but also then post Hoffman. A couple of 42 00:01:53,344 --> 00:01:54,885 things I would say about pre Hoffman. 43 00:01:55,689 --> 00:01:57,609 What's called a Nuyorican, a New York born 44 00:01:57,609 --> 00:01:58,430 Puerto Rican. 45 00:01:58,810 --> 00:02:00,030 New Eurecan. 46 00:02:00,650 --> 00:02:03,530 Yeah. I had congenital cataracts, so I couldn't 47 00:02:03,530 --> 00:02:05,770 see out of my left eye at all 48 00:02:05,770 --> 00:02:07,609 because of the cataract. And my right eye 49 00:02:07,609 --> 00:02:09,770 had pretty good vision. And this is you 50 00:02:09,770 --> 00:02:11,655 as a kid? This is me as a 51 00:02:11,655 --> 00:02:13,974 kid. I was born with congenital cataracts. And 52 00:02:13,974 --> 00:02:15,275 then at about age 53 00:02:15,814 --> 00:02:16,314 nine, 54 00:02:16,935 --> 00:02:18,855 long story, I got sent to a Catholic 55 00:02:18,855 --> 00:02:20,955 boarding school slash reform school, 56 00:02:21,415 --> 00:02:23,575 and a kid who was losing badly to 57 00:02:23,575 --> 00:02:24,474 me in horseshoes 58 00:02:25,169 --> 00:02:26,849 thought it would be funny to throw the 59 00:02:26,849 --> 00:02:29,269 horseshoe at me, yelling, hey, speck. 60 00:02:29,889 --> 00:02:31,989 And, unfortunately, I didn't catch it 61 00:02:32,689 --> 00:02:34,689 except with my eye, my one good eye, 62 00:02:34,689 --> 00:02:37,754 my right eye. And that hemorrhaged, and I 63 00:02:37,754 --> 00:02:39,915 ended up becoming legally blind for the next 64 00:02:39,915 --> 00:02:42,314 ten years. I lost most of the sight 65 00:02:42,314 --> 00:02:43,294 in my right eye. 66 00:02:44,074 --> 00:02:46,895 And so from about age nine to 19, 67 00:02:47,675 --> 00:02:48,735 I took services 68 00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:51,560 from, you know, the New York Association for 69 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,400 the Blind, and I write about this in 70 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,060 the memoir. 71 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,400 At 19, they couldn't do surgery on, 72 00:02:57,719 --> 00:03:01,479 young eyes back then because the cataract grows 73 00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:03,055 on the lens of the eye, And they 74 00:03:03,055 --> 00:03:05,854 would try then removing the lens, but because 75 00:03:05,854 --> 00:03:07,935 the fibers are so strong, they couldn't do 76 00:03:07,935 --> 00:03:10,574 surgery on young people, only on really old 77 00:03:10,574 --> 00:03:12,414 people. But then they came up with this, 78 00:03:12,414 --> 00:03:14,034 I call it the, Dyson 79 00:03:14,655 --> 00:03:18,280 vacuum machine, which basically they used ultrasonic 80 00:03:18,580 --> 00:03:20,199 sound. This is before lasers 81 00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:22,840 to shatter the lens of the eye. 82 00:03:23,139 --> 00:03:25,080 And then they had this little tiny vacuum 83 00:03:25,540 --> 00:03:28,659 where they scooped out and vacuumed off the 84 00:03:28,659 --> 00:03:29,719 disease lens, 85 00:03:30,099 --> 00:03:31,639 and now I wear contact. 86 00:03:32,294 --> 00:03:34,455 I'd already started getting involved in sit ins 87 00:03:34,455 --> 00:03:36,555 with the early disability rights movement. 88 00:03:37,014 --> 00:03:38,694 But then when I got my eyesight back 89 00:03:38,694 --> 00:03:40,135 in my right eye, I still don't see 90 00:03:40,135 --> 00:03:41,115 out of my left. 91 00:03:41,655 --> 00:03:43,995 I got involved in doing community organizing 92 00:03:44,455 --> 00:03:44,955 and 93 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,479 ended up becoming a social justice educator, activist, 94 00:03:48,479 --> 00:03:49,139 and professor. 95 00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:51,299 So that's the short story. 96 00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:56,099 There's something important about those ten years 97 00:03:56,719 --> 00:03:58,900 of no sight. Oh, yeah. 98 00:03:59,224 --> 00:04:01,724 This is what's often surprises people. 99 00:04:02,105 --> 00:04:04,105 When I was in the hospital at age 100 00:04:04,105 --> 00:04:04,605 19, 101 00:04:05,705 --> 00:04:07,885 I was having a real crisis. 102 00:04:08,504 --> 00:04:10,185 I was not sure I wanted to get 103 00:04:10,185 --> 00:04:13,030 my eyesight back because I had become sort 104 00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:15,110 of a, in my mind's eye, a poster 105 00:04:15,110 --> 00:04:16,490 child for a well adapted 106 00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:20,629 blanket. I'd gone to London school. I'd gone 107 00:04:20,629 --> 00:04:21,290 to college. 108 00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:23,050 I'd been the first 109 00:04:23,350 --> 00:04:25,509 blind counselor at this camp for the blind. 110 00:04:25,509 --> 00:04:27,935 So I felt like, hey. I got it 111 00:04:27,935 --> 00:04:29,714 together. What am I doing? 112 00:04:30,254 --> 00:04:33,214 And it was really the the kindness of 113 00:04:33,214 --> 00:04:34,194 a night nurse 114 00:04:34,654 --> 00:04:37,555 who basically just helped me chill out enough. 115 00:04:37,615 --> 00:04:40,014 And then then, of course, once I got 116 00:04:40,014 --> 00:04:41,235 the eyesight back, 117 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:42,819 the taxi 118 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:43,699 drive 119 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,699 through Central Park 120 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,019 on the way home from the hospital, 121 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:50,579 it was like somebody I had dropped acid. 122 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:51,379 Everything 123 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,879 was pulsating, and I thought the taxi cab 124 00:04:54,879 --> 00:04:56,740 driver had painted his 125 00:04:57,095 --> 00:05:00,214 cab psychedelic yellow. A friend of mine gave 126 00:05:00,214 --> 00:05:02,774 a great analogy. She said, you know, she's 127 00:05:02,774 --> 00:05:04,454 bisexual. And she said, you know, when I 128 00:05:04,454 --> 00:05:06,555 was with my first husband, 129 00:05:07,095 --> 00:05:09,334 sex was fine. It's like watching a black 130 00:05:09,334 --> 00:05:11,339 and white movie. But then when I had 131 00:05:11,339 --> 00:05:13,899 my first female lover, it was like seeing 132 00:05:13,899 --> 00:05:14,639 in technicolor. 133 00:05:15,580 --> 00:05:17,660 You know, that's the title of the chapter 134 00:05:17,660 --> 00:05:19,819 in my memoir about getting the eyesight back, 135 00:05:19,819 --> 00:05:20,720 seeing in technicolor. 136 00:05:21,339 --> 00:05:22,720 So you readopt 137 00:05:23,020 --> 00:05:23,600 a new 138 00:05:24,185 --> 00:05:26,604 identity now as a sitting person, 139 00:05:26,904 --> 00:05:29,704 albeit only out of one eye. You engage 140 00:05:29,704 --> 00:05:30,204 in 141 00:05:30,664 --> 00:05:33,644 social justice movement. You become a social justice 142 00:05:33,944 --> 00:05:34,444 educator 143 00:05:34,904 --> 00:05:35,964 and then a professor 144 00:05:36,345 --> 00:05:37,724 at Hamlin University. 145 00:05:38,185 --> 00:05:39,485 And what happens next? 146 00:05:39,919 --> 00:05:42,399 So what happens next is my wife had 147 00:05:42,399 --> 00:05:43,459 attended Hoffman 148 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:45,699 ten years earlier in 2010, 149 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:48,019 and now we're at about 2017. 150 00:05:48,479 --> 00:05:50,639 And I've retired. I've been retired for three 151 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:52,660 years. I've been working on a novel. 152 00:05:53,204 --> 00:05:56,105 Trump was being elected into office at January, 153 00:05:56,644 --> 00:05:58,485 and I kinda didn't wanna be around for 154 00:05:58,485 --> 00:06:00,165 that. So I said, okay. I'm gonna just 155 00:06:00,165 --> 00:06:02,084 gonna do Hoffman. Finally, it took me seven 156 00:06:02,084 --> 00:06:04,104 years to overcome my own resistance. 157 00:06:04,564 --> 00:06:06,884 And I was also diagnosed with diabetes for 158 00:06:06,884 --> 00:06:08,560 the first time. So I said, I need 159 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,180 something to shake up the house. 160 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,500 And that's how I ended 161 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:15,370 up going to Hoffman in January 162 00:06:15,370 --> 00:06:16,180 2017, 163 00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:19,060 and it was, you know, life changing. Continues 164 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:19,779 to affect 165 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:21,779 how I am in the world. 166 00:06:22,105 --> 00:06:24,185 Yeah. So you're sitting in those chairs the 167 00:06:24,185 --> 00:06:26,665 first couple days. What was it like for 168 00:06:26,665 --> 00:06:28,125 you? How do you feel 169 00:06:28,504 --> 00:06:30,925 as you're in this experience at the beginning? 170 00:06:31,464 --> 00:06:33,705 I had been doing social justice work for 171 00:06:33,705 --> 00:06:34,605 a long time, 172 00:06:35,180 --> 00:06:38,319 and I did work about multicultural organizations. 173 00:06:38,699 --> 00:06:40,879 And I'm looking around the room. 174 00:06:41,339 --> 00:06:42,959 And as far as I can tell, 175 00:06:43,339 --> 00:06:45,439 I'm the only person of color, 176 00:06:45,819 --> 00:06:46,319 Latino, 177 00:06:46,620 --> 00:06:47,120 otherwise, 178 00:06:47,659 --> 00:06:48,479 in the place. 179 00:06:49,055 --> 00:06:51,154 I could feel I was starting to close-up. 180 00:06:51,935 --> 00:06:54,354 And then I got introduced to my leader, 181 00:06:54,814 --> 00:06:58,175 Lisa, who has a strong Italian accent, and 182 00:06:58,175 --> 00:06:59,794 she spoke, like, seven languages. 183 00:07:00,574 --> 00:07:02,274 And I knew right away 184 00:07:02,654 --> 00:07:03,474 that this woman 185 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:05,420 would understand the experience 186 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:06,540 of otherness. 187 00:07:07,399 --> 00:07:09,639 And I just was able to relax into 188 00:07:09,639 --> 00:07:11,100 that. I mean, how 189 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:12,540 I got 190 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,620 sent to her as a leader, 191 00:07:15,079 --> 00:07:17,339 spirit was watching out for me, I guess. 192 00:07:17,625 --> 00:07:20,045 So that really released a lot of my 193 00:07:20,504 --> 00:07:21,645 initial terror. 194 00:07:23,785 --> 00:07:25,165 As you settled in 195 00:07:25,625 --> 00:07:28,365 seven years after your wife had gone acknowledging 196 00:07:28,585 --> 00:07:29,324 some resistance, 197 00:07:30,230 --> 00:07:31,610 what's it like to 198 00:07:32,149 --> 00:07:35,430 work on patterns and things that had gotten 199 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:36,490 in the way when 200 00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:39,529 part of your lived experience was also 201 00:07:40,389 --> 00:07:42,490 out of your control, stuff that 202 00:07:42,794 --> 00:07:46,154 you didn't choose blindness. You didn't choose to 203 00:07:46,154 --> 00:07:46,654 be 204 00:07:47,115 --> 00:07:48,414 attacked on the playground 205 00:07:49,115 --> 00:07:51,274 as a nine year old. How do you 206 00:07:51,274 --> 00:07:52,814 sort through that at Hoffman? 207 00:07:53,194 --> 00:07:55,035 One of the things that I found really 208 00:07:55,035 --> 00:07:55,535 helpful 209 00:07:56,189 --> 00:07:58,370 was thinking about the notion of shame. 210 00:07:58,910 --> 00:08:00,910 In my memoir, I sort of have a 211 00:08:00,910 --> 00:08:03,150 chapter where I talk about shame and how 212 00:08:03,150 --> 00:08:05,230 shame is different from guilt. Guilt is something 213 00:08:05,230 --> 00:08:06,129 that you did 214 00:08:06,430 --> 00:08:08,370 and that you can maybe atone for. 215 00:08:08,750 --> 00:08:10,850 Shame is something that you can't change. 216 00:08:11,685 --> 00:08:14,345 And I think a lot of my shame 217 00:08:15,284 --> 00:08:15,784 issues 218 00:08:16,084 --> 00:08:18,884 stemmed from and I didn't realize this until 219 00:08:18,884 --> 00:08:19,384 Hoffman, 220 00:08:20,084 --> 00:08:23,125 from abandonment issues I had with my mother 221 00:08:23,125 --> 00:08:25,350 who turned out to suffer from 222 00:08:25,730 --> 00:08:27,509 pretty significant mental illness. 223 00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:29,330 I don't wanna give away too much of 224 00:08:29,330 --> 00:08:31,490 the book, but the the opening sentence in 225 00:08:31,490 --> 00:08:33,970 the book is I'm five years old and 226 00:08:33,970 --> 00:08:36,950 I'm being chased around our apartment in Queens 227 00:08:37,250 --> 00:08:39,269 by my knife wielding mother. 228 00:08:40,144 --> 00:08:41,985 But my father also left when I was 229 00:08:41,985 --> 00:08:42,485 five. 230 00:08:43,024 --> 00:08:45,664 And, you know, children tend to internalize and 231 00:08:45,664 --> 00:08:47,125 say, well, it must be me. 232 00:08:47,745 --> 00:08:49,924 And I had never really made that connection 233 00:08:49,985 --> 00:08:51,764 before until I got to Hoffman 234 00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:54,420 that not only was I dealing with Shane, 235 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:56,440 but that the source of that was 236 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:57,800 about abandonment. 237 00:08:58,820 --> 00:09:01,320 So that was a big for me. 238 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:03,879 I had been working on this novel, 239 00:09:04,434 --> 00:09:06,035 and, you know, they tell you write what 240 00:09:06,035 --> 00:09:09,014 you know. That's different than the memoir. Right? 241 00:09:09,075 --> 00:09:11,235 Oh, yeah. The novel was about the small 242 00:09:11,235 --> 00:09:12,295 town in Minnesota 243 00:09:12,754 --> 00:09:15,415 not dealing with its increasing diversity. 244 00:09:16,035 --> 00:09:17,894 Because I was a first time novelist, 245 00:09:18,330 --> 00:09:20,910 I made the heroine of the the book 246 00:09:21,370 --> 00:09:23,629 Puerto Rican, but a Puerto Rican lesbian. 247 00:09:24,170 --> 00:09:26,029 And it and it never really worked. 248 00:09:26,410 --> 00:09:28,590 The novel went to 300 pages. 249 00:09:29,210 --> 00:09:30,889 On my way to Hoffman, I had sent 250 00:09:30,889 --> 00:09:31,529 it off to, 251 00:09:32,285 --> 00:09:32,945 an editor. 252 00:09:33,565 --> 00:09:35,644 But I just sort of knew in my 253 00:09:35,644 --> 00:09:39,184 bones that this really wasn't gonna fly. So 254 00:09:39,404 --> 00:09:41,644 part of what I think Hoffman's gift to 255 00:09:41,644 --> 00:09:43,665 me was to be able to say, 256 00:09:44,845 --> 00:09:47,004 dealing with my patterns allows me to be 257 00:09:47,004 --> 00:09:47,504 free 258 00:09:48,649 --> 00:09:51,070 to offer all my potential and gifts. 259 00:09:51,450 --> 00:09:53,230 I mean, I had thought of a memoir 260 00:09:53,529 --> 00:09:54,029 before, 261 00:09:54,730 --> 00:09:57,290 but I talked about it being the memoir 262 00:09:57,290 --> 00:09:58,990 would focus on my being blind 263 00:09:59,370 --> 00:10:01,370 and being Puerto Rican and dealing with those 264 00:10:01,370 --> 00:10:01,870 things. 265 00:10:02,404 --> 00:10:03,865 And I never really said, 266 00:10:04,404 --> 00:10:07,225 I need to deal with mental health issues, 267 00:10:07,684 --> 00:10:10,345 not just my mother's, but also my own. 268 00:10:10,965 --> 00:10:13,605 And that was also an issue of shame. 269 00:10:13,605 --> 00:10:15,764 Like, I didn't wanna admit that my family 270 00:10:15,764 --> 00:10:16,985 had mental health issues, 271 00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:18,330 nor did I wanna 272 00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:21,929 admit my own college. I almost committed suicide. 273 00:10:22,549 --> 00:10:25,690 And so the Hoffman process allowed me to 274 00:10:26,149 --> 00:10:27,750 be able to let go of some of 275 00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:29,509 that shame and say, I think that might 276 00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:31,210 be helpful for people to understand. 277 00:10:33,014 --> 00:10:34,154 Yeah. So deeply 278 00:10:34,695 --> 00:10:35,195 embedded 279 00:10:36,375 --> 00:10:38,855 shame was almost as a part of your 280 00:10:38,855 --> 00:10:39,355 identity. 281 00:10:39,815 --> 00:10:43,034 Yeah. And layered. Shame about being blind, 282 00:10:43,575 --> 00:10:45,629 but not being blind enough because I was 283 00:10:45,789 --> 00:10:48,129 partially sighted. So people wouldn't know right away 284 00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:50,830 that I was blind unless I was carrying 285 00:10:50,830 --> 00:10:53,250 a cane, which I did later on. 286 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:55,330 Shame about being Puerto Rican. 287 00:10:55,710 --> 00:10:58,350 The nuns told my mother when I was 288 00:10:58,350 --> 00:11:01,705 in fourth grade that I had a speech 289 00:11:01,705 --> 00:11:02,205 impediment, 290 00:11:02,825 --> 00:11:04,925 and they were gonna put me into a 291 00:11:04,985 --> 00:11:07,325 special class. Well, they put me into the 292 00:11:07,384 --> 00:11:09,965 special class, which was basically for slow children. 293 00:11:10,745 --> 00:11:12,789 Well, you know, you put a kid who's 294 00:11:12,789 --> 00:11:15,350 not slow into a slow class, and I 295 00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:17,909 found ways to entertain myself. That got me 296 00:11:17,909 --> 00:11:19,450 kicked out of Catholic school 297 00:11:19,830 --> 00:11:21,589 and sent to the reform school, which is 298 00:11:21,589 --> 00:11:22,970 where the accident happened. 299 00:11:23,664 --> 00:11:25,904 The other thing that I found out years 300 00:11:25,904 --> 00:11:28,164 later, you know, when I was an academic, 301 00:11:28,785 --> 00:11:30,644 was they had done research 302 00:11:31,105 --> 00:11:34,245 and found that literally tens of thousands 303 00:11:35,024 --> 00:11:35,845 of children 304 00:11:36,225 --> 00:11:37,125 who had accents 305 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,339 were tracked into slow classes. 306 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:44,519 When those children were then a section of 307 00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:46,779 them were retested by bilingual 308 00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:47,899 specialists, 309 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,000 those kids tested often not just out of 310 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:51,899 being slow, 311 00:11:52,225 --> 00:11:54,164 but being smarter than average. 312 00:11:54,784 --> 00:11:57,184 I came to realize that back then, I 313 00:11:57,184 --> 00:11:58,804 had fallen into this 314 00:11:59,424 --> 00:12:02,245 pattern of difference being seen as deficit. 315 00:12:03,264 --> 00:12:04,884 Let's slow it down. Difference 316 00:12:05,585 --> 00:12:07,365 being seen as deficit. 317 00:12:08,379 --> 00:12:11,360 And so much of what you faced was 318 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:14,139 sort of a product of the times and 319 00:12:14,139 --> 00:12:14,879 the systemic 320 00:12:15,339 --> 00:12:18,559 nature of boarding schools, of discrimination, 321 00:12:19,019 --> 00:12:20,079 of our educational 322 00:12:20,459 --> 00:12:20,959 system. 323 00:12:21,644 --> 00:12:23,565 At the time that I was going to 324 00:12:23,565 --> 00:12:24,065 school, 325 00:12:24,845 --> 00:12:25,665 80% 326 00:12:26,285 --> 00:12:27,965 of the Puerto Rican kids in the New 327 00:12:27,965 --> 00:12:29,585 York City school systems 328 00:12:30,445 --> 00:12:31,425 never graduated. 329 00:12:32,045 --> 00:12:34,065 And that was, again, a product of 330 00:12:34,365 --> 00:12:35,745 difference being interpreted 331 00:12:36,125 --> 00:12:37,024 as deficit 332 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:38,919 and lower expectations. 333 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,340 I mean, kids rise or don't rise to 334 00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:43,080 the expectations. 335 00:12:43,779 --> 00:12:46,120 And so that was part of what became 336 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:48,840 obvious to me, but only in retrospect. 337 00:12:49,855 --> 00:12:51,535 And I'll say one more thing about that. 338 00:12:51,535 --> 00:12:54,414 I'm interested in the intersections of my different 339 00:12:54,414 --> 00:12:57,375 identities being blind, being Puerto Rican, having mental 340 00:12:57,375 --> 00:12:58,835 health, family issues. 341 00:12:59,375 --> 00:13:01,215 One of the things that I came to 342 00:13:01,215 --> 00:13:04,195 realize is, well, how come it was that 343 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,500 I wasn't in that 80%? 344 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,120 And what happened was because I had the 345 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:09,860 eye accident 346 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,100 and I lost most of my sight. 347 00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:14,480 At the time, the New York City schools 348 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,779 had just been required 349 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,059 to provide 350 00:13:17,919 --> 00:13:18,419 services 351 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:20,100 for disabled children. 352 00:13:20,714 --> 00:13:23,054 Before that, they didn't do that at all. 353 00:13:23,834 --> 00:13:25,355 As a matter of fact, there's a great 354 00:13:25,355 --> 00:13:27,214 book written by a woman named Judy 355 00:13:27,754 --> 00:13:29,695 Heumann called Becoming Human. 356 00:13:30,315 --> 00:13:32,235 She's one of the leaders of the early 357 00:13:32,235 --> 00:13:35,054 disability rights movement. She was in a wheelchair 358 00:13:35,115 --> 00:13:35,615 and 359 00:13:35,970 --> 00:13:37,730 she had to sue the state of New 360 00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:39,570 York or the city of New York to 361 00:13:39,570 --> 00:13:41,730 get services. They said, we can't have you 362 00:13:41,730 --> 00:13:42,929 come to school here. We should be a 363 00:13:42,929 --> 00:13:43,750 fire hyzer. 364 00:13:44,929 --> 00:13:47,409 So she won the suit. And because of 365 00:13:47,409 --> 00:13:49,750 her work, I got special services. 366 00:13:50,575 --> 00:13:52,514 And, again, here the lesson is 367 00:13:52,894 --> 00:13:55,294 you take a kid who's considered not very 368 00:13:55,294 --> 00:13:57,154 quick, but you give them some attention, 369 00:13:57,534 --> 00:13:59,955 like I got because of these special services, 370 00:14:00,735 --> 00:14:01,714 and I flourished. 371 00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:05,409 So, you know, it's one of those examples 372 00:14:05,470 --> 00:14:08,750 of sometimes the multiple identities. In this case, 373 00:14:08,750 --> 00:14:11,470 working for me could have easily worked against 374 00:14:11,470 --> 00:14:12,210 me, but 375 00:14:12,669 --> 00:14:15,070 I was again you know, spirit was watching 376 00:14:15,070 --> 00:14:19,024 out. Thank god for Judy's courage to stand 377 00:14:19,024 --> 00:14:20,404 up to the systemic 378 00:14:21,024 --> 00:14:21,524 discrimination 379 00:14:21,985 --> 00:14:23,684 associated with being different. 380 00:14:24,144 --> 00:14:27,445 Yeah. Judy would go on to San Francisco. 381 00:14:27,825 --> 00:14:30,945 There's a great documentary by Barack Obama called 382 00:14:30,945 --> 00:14:33,230 Crip Camp, c r I p 383 00:14:33,610 --> 00:14:35,370 camp. By the way, we'll put all of 384 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:38,089 this in the show notes. Great. And it's 385 00:14:38,089 --> 00:14:40,889 basically a documentary about this camp in Upstate 386 00:14:40,889 --> 00:14:43,289 New York where Judy went to when she 387 00:14:43,289 --> 00:14:44,110 was a teenager. 388 00:14:45,055 --> 00:14:47,855 She and a bunch of the campers that 389 00:14:47,855 --> 00:14:49,875 were there ended up going to California 390 00:14:50,894 --> 00:14:51,634 and starting 391 00:14:52,095 --> 00:14:53,875 the disability rights movement. 392 00:14:54,254 --> 00:14:56,355 And I ended up going to California, 393 00:14:57,049 --> 00:14:59,370 and I ended up taking over Jerry Brown's 394 00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:00,649 office in I don't I think it was 395 00:15:00,649 --> 00:15:01,789 1977. 396 00:15:02,009 --> 00:15:03,230 But there was this 397 00:15:03,610 --> 00:15:06,889 wellspring of activism that came out of this 398 00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:09,209 camp, which I ended up working at. At 399 00:15:09,209 --> 00:15:10,970 that point, I had my eyesight back, but 400 00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:12,269 I ended up being a counselor. 401 00:15:12,725 --> 00:15:14,884 And even then, it infected me, and I 402 00:15:14,884 --> 00:15:15,705 went to California. 403 00:15:16,644 --> 00:15:19,285 Just thinking about you in your process, I 404 00:15:19,285 --> 00:15:19,785 imagine 405 00:15:20,245 --> 00:15:22,665 so much of your history gets digested 406 00:15:23,445 --> 00:15:24,904 during your week at Hoffman. 407 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:26,019 Certainly, 408 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,399 my patterns, you know, I talked a little 409 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:31,120 bit about the shame one. But also the 410 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,200 flip side of that, being able to get 411 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,500 in touch with how 412 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:35,700 nature 413 00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:38,160 was one of the things that helped me 414 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:38,660 heal 415 00:15:39,464 --> 00:15:42,024 from my wounds, you know, certainly helped me 416 00:15:42,024 --> 00:15:43,164 heal mental illness. 417 00:15:43,704 --> 00:15:45,725 I have very strong memories. 418 00:15:46,105 --> 00:15:48,764 Was it White Sulphur Springs, the old campus? 419 00:15:49,225 --> 00:15:52,445 It was. Yes. Up in Santa Elena, California. 420 00:15:53,409 --> 00:15:56,289 I remember walking early in the morning before 421 00:15:56,289 --> 00:15:57,990 things started. There was still a fog 422 00:15:58,370 --> 00:16:00,769 through the redwood grove there. There was some 423 00:16:00,769 --> 00:16:01,830 just majestic 424 00:16:02,370 --> 00:16:04,629 trees, and there was a labyrinth. And 425 00:16:05,330 --> 00:16:07,590 in the process, I came to realize 426 00:16:08,294 --> 00:16:11,174 and start to think more explicitly about how 427 00:16:11,174 --> 00:16:13,495 nature in my own life had been such 428 00:16:13,495 --> 00:16:16,315 a healing force, which I incorporate 429 00:16:16,774 --> 00:16:19,335 into writing in my memoir. There was an 430 00:16:19,335 --> 00:16:19,835 expression 431 00:16:20,375 --> 00:16:21,754 by the idea of spiritual 432 00:16:22,375 --> 00:16:22,875 reparenting. 433 00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:26,709 That became part of what happened for me 434 00:16:26,709 --> 00:16:27,370 at Hoffman. 435 00:16:27,750 --> 00:16:29,589 I think the definition that they gave of 436 00:16:29,589 --> 00:16:30,570 spirit was 437 00:16:31,029 --> 00:16:33,269 your spiritual self is who you are without 438 00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:34,089 your patterns. 439 00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:35,370 Nature 440 00:16:36,284 --> 00:16:39,084 throughout your life and definitely at Hoffman has 441 00:16:39,084 --> 00:16:40,704 been a real source of strength. 442 00:16:41,245 --> 00:16:43,245 Oh, yeah. There's several stories I tell about 443 00:16:43,245 --> 00:16:44,704 nature coming to my rescue. 444 00:16:45,084 --> 00:16:47,325 But the most vivid, I think, is when 445 00:16:47,325 --> 00:16:49,904 I'm in college having a really hard time 446 00:16:50,090 --> 00:16:52,250 dealing with the racism and being blind and 447 00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:53,070 my parental, 448 00:16:53,529 --> 00:16:54,029 Michigas. 449 00:16:54,809 --> 00:16:56,970 And I ended up standing on a ledge 450 00:16:56,970 --> 00:16:58,590 of a 10 story dorm, 451 00:16:59,129 --> 00:17:01,070 and I'm, like, one step away. 452 00:17:01,610 --> 00:17:03,710 And also in this red tail hawk 453 00:17:04,325 --> 00:17:07,045 comes swooping so close to me that I 454 00:17:07,045 --> 00:17:08,644 look up and you can see the red 455 00:17:08,644 --> 00:17:09,785 of its tail 456 00:17:10,325 --> 00:17:12,484 with the sun in the background. It lights 457 00:17:12,484 --> 00:17:14,744 up, and the color red was basically 458 00:17:15,125 --> 00:17:15,625 stop. 459 00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:17,179 But there's several 460 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,720 stories that I tell in the course of 461 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,000 the memoir about how nature just saved my 462 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,059 fat from the fire. 463 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,940 Why do you think it is about nature? 464 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:28,460 Like, the synchronicity, 465 00:17:28,919 --> 00:17:30,059 the overlay 466 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,259 of spirit 467 00:17:32,025 --> 00:17:33,005 and nature. 468 00:17:33,705 --> 00:17:37,005 Why did those two create such potency together? 469 00:17:37,705 --> 00:17:38,984 I think some of it has to do 470 00:17:38,984 --> 00:17:39,805 with awe. 471 00:17:40,744 --> 00:17:43,384 Getting us out of seeing ourselves as the 472 00:17:43,384 --> 00:17:43,884 central 473 00:17:44,184 --> 00:17:46,265 character in the cast of the movie and 474 00:17:46,265 --> 00:17:48,880 seeing, you know, we're just a small part. 475 00:17:49,019 --> 00:17:51,579 And for me, the larger nature was a 476 00:17:51,579 --> 00:17:52,720 benevolent force. 477 00:17:53,259 --> 00:17:55,019 My wife and I went out two nights 478 00:17:55,019 --> 00:17:57,039 ago because the northern lights 479 00:17:57,579 --> 00:17:58,079 here 480 00:17:58,380 --> 00:18:00,000 had been so intense. 481 00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:02,144 And, you know, we go to bed early. 482 00:18:02,144 --> 00:18:03,345 We're we're at the age now. We don't 483 00:18:03,345 --> 00:18:04,784 stay up until three or four in the 484 00:18:04,784 --> 00:18:07,345 morning to see northern lights. But these were 485 00:18:07,345 --> 00:18:09,904 intense at 09:00 at night, and our mouths 486 00:18:09,904 --> 00:18:12,404 are open because the reds and the greens 487 00:18:12,464 --> 00:18:13,444 and the pinks. 488 00:18:13,789 --> 00:18:15,950 I mean, I'd seen northern lights before, but 489 00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:17,490 this was the whole horizon. 490 00:18:18,509 --> 00:18:20,289 So I think there's something about 491 00:18:20,829 --> 00:18:21,730 being open 492 00:18:22,349 --> 00:18:24,509 to nature and the sense of awe that 493 00:18:24,509 --> 00:18:25,409 it can inspire 494 00:18:26,184 --> 00:18:27,244 in spirit. 495 00:18:27,945 --> 00:18:29,005 I love that. 496 00:18:29,785 --> 00:18:32,025 What happens as you move towards the end 497 00:18:32,025 --> 00:18:33,644 of your week at Hoffman 498 00:18:34,424 --> 00:18:35,884 as you begin to synthesize 499 00:18:36,265 --> 00:18:39,244 and bring together so much of what was 500 00:18:39,465 --> 00:18:39,965 occurring? 501 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,480 One of the things I just noticed in 502 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,799 going back over my journal was one of 503 00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:46,820 the last quotes I had was, 504 00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:48,820 if you don't have a vision, 505 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:50,019 your worries 506 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:51,700 become your vision. 507 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,620 And it really made me 508 00:18:54,065 --> 00:18:55,525 think very intentionally 509 00:18:56,224 --> 00:18:57,125 about, okay, 510 00:18:57,505 --> 00:18:59,125 what's next for Bania? 511 00:18:59,744 --> 00:19:02,065 And it turned out that a number of 512 00:19:02,065 --> 00:19:03,525 things happened. One was 513 00:19:04,065 --> 00:19:05,825 my wife and I had been living in 514 00:19:05,825 --> 00:19:08,829 Saint Peter, Minnesota. We had basically bought an 515 00:19:08,829 --> 00:19:09,649 old abandoned 516 00:19:10,269 --> 00:19:12,529 farmhouse and farmstead that hadn't been 517 00:19:12,829 --> 00:19:15,649 used at all. And we spent twenty years 518 00:19:16,349 --> 00:19:16,849 rehabilitating 519 00:19:17,230 --> 00:19:18,289 not just the house, 520 00:19:18,669 --> 00:19:20,210 not just the the barn, 521 00:19:20,744 --> 00:19:23,644 but we basically planted 600 trees 522 00:19:24,184 --> 00:19:26,365 and bushes. We planted two 523 00:19:26,825 --> 00:19:27,325 native 524 00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:28,125 prairies, 525 00:19:28,904 --> 00:19:30,744 which, you know, made the bees very happy 526 00:19:30,744 --> 00:19:31,565 and the butterflies. 527 00:19:31,944 --> 00:19:34,230 But my wife had taken a position 528 00:19:34,529 --> 00:19:36,069 about two hours away. 529 00:19:36,929 --> 00:19:38,390 And at the same time, 530 00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:41,829 we were realizing that the city had moved 531 00:19:41,970 --> 00:19:44,130 around us, so we were now sort of 532 00:19:44,130 --> 00:19:44,950 this little 533 00:19:45,329 --> 00:19:45,829 island. 534 00:19:46,394 --> 00:19:48,974 It was not the same place. And so 535 00:19:49,434 --> 00:19:50,654 part of what I 536 00:19:51,035 --> 00:19:54,474 came to realize right after Hoffman was it 537 00:19:54,474 --> 00:19:55,855 was time to let go. 538 00:19:56,234 --> 00:19:58,394 It was time to let go of the 539 00:19:58,394 --> 00:20:00,494 land and my sense of territoriality. 540 00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:03,079 I hated it when people trespass. 541 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:06,420 So that was a big, big shift for 542 00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:09,160 me. The other big shift after 543 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:10,200 Hoffman 544 00:20:10,980 --> 00:20:13,380 was I went from thinking about writing this 545 00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:13,880 novel 546 00:20:14,579 --> 00:20:16,039 to being much more 547 00:20:16,945 --> 00:20:18,244 vulnerable and writing 548 00:20:18,545 --> 00:20:20,164 a memoir that included 549 00:20:21,184 --> 00:20:24,705 my struggles with mental illness, my family struggles 550 00:20:24,705 --> 00:20:25,684 with mental illness. 551 00:20:26,065 --> 00:20:27,505 And, you know, I had thought, well, geez, 552 00:20:27,505 --> 00:20:29,549 you know, writing a novel about blindness and 553 00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:30,529 Porter that's 554 00:20:30,910 --> 00:20:32,750 enough. But I realized that there was a 555 00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:35,470 lot more to the story. And so I 556 00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:36,690 was feeling 557 00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:37,970 emboldened 558 00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:40,590 to go there. And the other thing that 559 00:20:40,590 --> 00:20:42,130 this has to do with my diabetes, 560 00:20:42,910 --> 00:20:43,970 right, when I left 561 00:20:44,444 --> 00:20:46,704 Hoffman and we left Saint Peter 562 00:20:47,164 --> 00:20:48,065 for Winona, 563 00:20:48,605 --> 00:20:49,744 I started swimming 564 00:20:50,204 --> 00:20:52,765 and playing water volleyball and lifting weights pretty 565 00:20:52,765 --> 00:20:54,224 regularly. And that's helped 566 00:20:54,845 --> 00:20:56,065 keep my diabetes 567 00:20:56,365 --> 00:20:58,544 in check so far, knock on wood. 568 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:00,660 I often will 569 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,320 wake up in the middle of an IP 570 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,640 as my brain's going and then I can't 571 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:05,539 calm it down. 572 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,500 There's a Hoffman process that I use 573 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:11,779 where I force myself to say three things 574 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,340 from that day that I was grateful for 575 00:21:14,924 --> 00:21:15,904 and three things 576 00:21:16,284 --> 00:21:18,625 about myself in the course of that day 577 00:21:19,085 --> 00:21:20,544 that I was grateful for. 578 00:21:21,005 --> 00:21:23,644 And it often becomes more, but it also 579 00:21:23,644 --> 00:21:24,384 does something 580 00:21:25,244 --> 00:21:25,744 psychologically, 581 00:21:26,204 --> 00:21:26,704 physiologically 582 00:21:27,085 --> 00:21:29,005 that relaxes me and usually allows me to 583 00:21:29,005 --> 00:21:30,065 go back to sleep. 584 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,779 The other thing that I do almost every 585 00:21:32,779 --> 00:21:33,279 day 586 00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:35,600 is there's that wonderful Hoffman 587 00:21:36,059 --> 00:21:37,920 meditation tape, the Quadrinity. 588 00:21:38,539 --> 00:21:40,320 Yeah. That's become part of my 589 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:42,160 daily routine. 590 00:21:42,734 --> 00:21:44,115 The quadrinity check-in. 591 00:21:44,414 --> 00:21:46,755 And it sounds like the gratitude practice, 592 00:21:47,055 --> 00:21:49,555 the things that you appreciate about the day 593 00:21:49,694 --> 00:21:51,875 as a way of being with yourself 594 00:21:52,335 --> 00:21:54,815 in the night when you wake up. Yeah. 595 00:21:54,815 --> 00:21:56,335 This night can be a tough time for 596 00:21:56,335 --> 00:21:57,394 most folks, so 597 00:21:57,839 --> 00:21:59,539 I'm no different in that regard. 598 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,419 Yes. The patterns can emerge 599 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:04,099 in the 600 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:05,140 darkness. 601 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,500 The other thing that I realized at Hoffman 602 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,559 was and this has to do with my 603 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:12,480 father. My father left when I was four 604 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:13,140 or five. 605 00:22:13,734 --> 00:22:15,654 He had his own struggles. He had been 606 00:22:15,654 --> 00:22:18,054 in the Korean war. They didn't have this 607 00:22:18,054 --> 00:22:20,315 language then, but he suffered from PTSD. 608 00:22:21,174 --> 00:22:22,534 You know, he didn't work for a long 609 00:22:22,534 --> 00:22:24,154 time. He struggled with alcoholism. 610 00:22:25,095 --> 00:22:27,514 And, you know, when I turned 21, 611 00:22:28,029 --> 00:22:29,869 he wrote me this lovely letter that he 612 00:22:29,869 --> 00:22:31,869 had met this woman who he had known 613 00:22:31,869 --> 00:22:33,869 when he was seven. They used to walk 614 00:22:33,869 --> 00:22:34,369 together 615 00:22:34,910 --> 00:22:37,230 to church in Puerto Rico. She was three, 616 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:38,750 he was seven, and he would hold her 617 00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:40,829 hand and walk her. And he had stopped 618 00:22:40,829 --> 00:22:42,690 drinking and he had married her. 619 00:22:43,024 --> 00:22:45,585 And, you know, there was a rebirth of 620 00:22:45,585 --> 00:22:46,325 our relationship. 621 00:22:47,024 --> 00:22:49,444 It also though made me aware of, 622 00:22:49,904 --> 00:22:50,804 I had joined 623 00:22:51,424 --> 00:22:53,044 men's groups in the past, 624 00:22:53,424 --> 00:22:55,345 but I hadn't really understood why it was 625 00:22:55,345 --> 00:22:58,404 such a driving force, why I needed those. 626 00:22:58,809 --> 00:23:00,430 And I became much more clear 627 00:23:00,890 --> 00:23:01,710 after Hoffman 628 00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:04,410 that that was part of the abandonment issue 629 00:23:04,410 --> 00:23:06,570 and that when we came to Winona, I 630 00:23:06,570 --> 00:23:07,070 organized 631 00:23:07,609 --> 00:23:10,089 a men's group here. I write about Latino 632 00:23:10,089 --> 00:23:12,724 men's groups that I've been involved in. So 633 00:23:13,184 --> 00:23:14,964 that was part of the reentry 634 00:23:15,505 --> 00:23:16,644 process for me. 635 00:23:17,184 --> 00:23:19,444 The last thing I would say about leaving 636 00:23:19,744 --> 00:23:20,804 Hoffman was 637 00:23:21,345 --> 00:23:23,825 I was always aware that writing was very 638 00:23:23,825 --> 00:23:25,424 difficult for me. I tend to be a 639 00:23:25,424 --> 00:23:26,244 social person 640 00:23:26,779 --> 00:23:28,720 and it's a can be a very isolating 641 00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:29,440 individualistic 642 00:23:30,059 --> 00:23:30,559 thing. 643 00:23:31,099 --> 00:23:33,019 I struggle with that, honestly. I would go 644 00:23:33,019 --> 00:23:34,639 through long periods of not writing. 645 00:23:35,259 --> 00:23:38,299 When I moved to Winona, I got involved 646 00:23:38,299 --> 00:23:41,039 with not one, but two writing groups 647 00:23:41,545 --> 00:23:44,045 who really helped me move my memoir 648 00:23:44,744 --> 00:23:48,285 from pretty bad shape to a decent shape. 649 00:23:48,424 --> 00:23:50,525 And I even joined a book group. So 650 00:23:50,984 --> 00:23:52,125 the idea that 651 00:23:52,505 --> 00:23:53,325 that pattern 652 00:23:53,785 --> 00:23:55,325 of loneliness and withdrawing, 653 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,119 which could feed into a writing block really 654 00:23:59,119 --> 00:23:59,619 well, 655 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,820 got interrupted. And I think, again, that was 656 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:05,220 a insight that I got in the process 657 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:05,859 of 658 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,680 understanding my relationship with my parents, particularly my 659 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,180 father. 660 00:24:10,945 --> 00:24:12,484 Wow. And you had 661 00:24:12,785 --> 00:24:14,644 all these things that systemically, 662 00:24:15,345 --> 00:24:16,244 the PTSD 663 00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:18,805 your father was navigating, the 664 00:24:19,184 --> 00:24:21,205 racism of being Puerto Rican, 665 00:24:22,065 --> 00:24:22,725 the discrimination 666 00:24:23,265 --> 00:24:25,365 coming from blindness, the 667 00:24:25,710 --> 00:24:26,929 mental health struggles 668 00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:30,029 of your mom so much out of your 669 00:24:30,029 --> 00:24:30,529 control 670 00:24:31,230 --> 00:24:32,369 as a little being, 671 00:24:32,909 --> 00:24:33,409 and 672 00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:34,450 so much 673 00:24:34,750 --> 00:24:35,730 that has been 674 00:24:36,269 --> 00:24:38,369 changed over time, the educational 675 00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:41,605 system, some of the awareness around race, some 676 00:24:41,605 --> 00:24:44,744 of the awareness around mental health, and certainly 677 00:24:44,804 --> 00:24:45,304 PTSD 678 00:24:45,684 --> 00:24:46,184 now. 679 00:24:46,565 --> 00:24:48,724 So much a product of the era in 680 00:24:48,724 --> 00:24:49,784 which you were raised. 681 00:24:50,244 --> 00:24:52,024 Yeah. And I would say that certainly, 682 00:24:52,325 --> 00:24:55,284 particularly with this draconian budget cuts, a lot 683 00:24:55,284 --> 00:24:58,559 of mental health programs have been severely impacted. 684 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:00,480 The cuts to Medicaid 685 00:25:01,180 --> 00:25:01,680 disproportionately 686 00:25:02,220 --> 00:25:03,119 fall on 687 00:25:03,820 --> 00:25:04,880 disabled people. 688 00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:07,740 So I feel like we've made some progress 689 00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:10,480 and now it feels like we're sliding backwards. 690 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:12,320 I tend to be optimistic, 691 00:25:13,275 --> 00:25:15,595 but I also tend to be realistic that 692 00:25:15,595 --> 00:25:16,414 things have, 693 00:25:16,955 --> 00:25:18,575 in some places, gotten better. 694 00:25:18,955 --> 00:25:22,174 You know, the anti Latino sentiment is not 695 00:25:22,234 --> 00:25:23,775 toned down very much. 696 00:25:24,315 --> 00:25:26,174 So, again, that difference 697 00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:28,610 as being seen as deficit 698 00:25:29,150 --> 00:25:31,549 is sort of haunting us again as a 699 00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:32,049 culture. 700 00:25:32,509 --> 00:25:33,009 Yes. 701 00:25:33,470 --> 00:25:34,769 What was it like 702 00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:36,130 for you to 703 00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:39,789 review your workbook and pull that out again 704 00:25:39,789 --> 00:25:41,570 in preparation for this conversation? 705 00:25:42,315 --> 00:25:43,755 First of all, damn it. I didn't know 706 00:25:43,755 --> 00:25:45,134 I had so many patterns. 707 00:25:46,394 --> 00:25:47,454 And also seeing 708 00:25:47,835 --> 00:25:50,075 that I had been able to address quite 709 00:25:50,075 --> 00:25:50,974 a few of them, 710 00:25:51,514 --> 00:25:54,714 but they're still there. Certainly around eating and 711 00:25:54,714 --> 00:25:56,575 diabetes, I have to be really, 712 00:25:57,139 --> 00:25:59,240 really careful. I noticed that 713 00:25:59,619 --> 00:26:02,019 we had a couple of launch events for 714 00:26:02,019 --> 00:26:04,259 my book. And leading up to those, I 715 00:26:04,259 --> 00:26:05,799 was just eating my feelings. 716 00:26:06,259 --> 00:26:07,480 It doesn't go away. 717 00:26:08,019 --> 00:26:10,579 You get better at learning how to recognize 718 00:26:10,579 --> 00:26:12,115 them and then 719 00:26:12,414 --> 00:26:13,375 manage them. So 720 00:26:14,174 --> 00:26:15,775 It is a true I mean, part of 721 00:26:15,775 --> 00:26:18,275 being human is to have patterns. So then 722 00:26:18,575 --> 00:26:21,234 what's different is that we have more resiliency 723 00:26:21,934 --> 00:26:23,634 to them. We're not a victim 724 00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:26,390 when they show up. We can bounce back 725 00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:26,890 to 726 00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:29,769 their grip. Yeah. That's been my experience. 727 00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:32,710 I haven't seen a whole lot of new 728 00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:33,210 patterns. 729 00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:35,830 You know, you you do something different like 730 00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:37,430 write a memoir, and then all of a 731 00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:39,734 sudden you realize, oh, I have some patterns 732 00:26:39,734 --> 00:26:41,914 I hadn't thought about. Damn it. 733 00:26:43,335 --> 00:26:45,494 Yeah. Has it been nice for you and 734 00:26:45,494 --> 00:26:47,674 your wife to have both attended? 735 00:26:48,134 --> 00:26:49,595 She went in 2010. 736 00:26:50,295 --> 00:26:52,615 Has it been nice? Yes. She would tell 737 00:26:52,615 --> 00:26:53,515 me about it. 738 00:26:53,929 --> 00:26:55,450 And, you know, I was like, well, that 739 00:26:55,450 --> 00:26:57,450 sounds interesting. But I had I didn't have 740 00:26:57,450 --> 00:26:58,349 any motivation. 741 00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:01,309 But there was just enough stuff coming 742 00:27:01,849 --> 00:27:04,190 to a head in 2017 743 00:27:04,329 --> 00:27:05,230 that I said, 744 00:27:06,464 --> 00:27:08,625 she's still in touch with one of the 745 00:27:08,625 --> 00:27:09,125 people 746 00:27:09,585 --> 00:27:12,005 or maybe two of the people from her 747 00:27:12,065 --> 00:27:12,565 Hoffman 748 00:27:12,865 --> 00:27:13,365 retreat. 749 00:27:14,065 --> 00:27:16,304 I didn't have that kind of connection, but 750 00:27:16,304 --> 00:27:19,045 I take a lot of the Hoffman classes, 751 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:22,539 the webinars, and they're really helpful. And they're 752 00:27:22,539 --> 00:27:24,079 not too long and 753 00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:26,079 some really talented 754 00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:26,880 instructors. 755 00:27:27,660 --> 00:27:30,059 And sometimes, you know, it's again, spirits watching 756 00:27:30,059 --> 00:27:32,220 out for me. I'm getting ready to do 757 00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:35,375 the first launch event. There's a thing about 758 00:27:35,434 --> 00:27:38,394 moving into your creative self, and it's, like, 759 00:27:38,394 --> 00:27:41,275 perfect. It's like, okay. Universe is having a 760 00:27:41,275 --> 00:27:42,174 smile because 761 00:27:42,555 --> 00:27:44,394 Vania needs this. Let's send it to him. 762 00:27:44,394 --> 00:27:44,975 You know? 763 00:27:45,595 --> 00:27:49,215 There's something you're talking to, Jim, which references 764 00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:51,109 something about 765 00:27:51,410 --> 00:27:54,470 feeling like the universe is supporting you. 766 00:27:55,329 --> 00:27:57,170 When we're in pattern, it can feel like 767 00:27:57,170 --> 00:27:58,630 the universe is conspiring 768 00:27:58,930 --> 00:27:59,750 against us. 769 00:28:00,210 --> 00:28:02,529 But do you feel like the process supported 770 00:28:02,529 --> 00:28:04,710 you in in feeling like, 771 00:28:05,009 --> 00:28:07,414 oh, the universe is watching out for me. 772 00:28:07,414 --> 00:28:09,515 It's perfectly timed. Oh, this 773 00:28:09,815 --> 00:28:10,955 is such good fortune. 774 00:28:11,494 --> 00:28:13,674 Yeah. There's no question that 775 00:28:14,055 --> 00:28:14,875 going into 776 00:28:15,734 --> 00:28:16,474 the process 777 00:28:17,255 --> 00:28:19,174 you know, I had had several and, you 778 00:28:19,174 --> 00:28:20,955 know, I write about this in the memoir. 779 00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:23,670 Several experiences where I felt like nature really 780 00:28:23,670 --> 00:28:24,170 just 781 00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:26,490 came to my rescue or 782 00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:28,890 materialized in a way that became 783 00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:31,690 so obvious that even I could get it. 784 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:32,650 In the Hoffman 785 00:28:33,109 --> 00:28:33,609 experience, 786 00:28:34,525 --> 00:28:37,664 I was connecting with instructors and other people 787 00:28:37,964 --> 00:28:40,144 who tell about stories 788 00:28:40,605 --> 00:28:41,664 about how nature 789 00:28:42,045 --> 00:28:42,865 and spirit 790 00:28:43,164 --> 00:28:44,065 had combined 791 00:28:44,684 --> 00:28:46,224 to really be 792 00:28:46,890 --> 00:28:48,750 benevolent forces in their life. 793 00:28:49,609 --> 00:28:51,309 So there was something about having 794 00:28:51,769 --> 00:28:53,150 my experience validated 795 00:28:54,009 --> 00:28:54,750 by others. 796 00:28:55,609 --> 00:28:57,450 I was raised Catholic, so there was not 797 00:28:57,450 --> 00:29:00,009 a lot of tolerance for let's talk about 798 00:29:00,009 --> 00:29:02,894 spirits in nature, except for Saint Francis. Other 799 00:29:02,894 --> 00:29:03,634 than that. 800 00:29:04,734 --> 00:29:07,294 You're referencing something about the power of group 801 00:29:07,294 --> 00:29:07,794 work 802 00:29:08,335 --> 00:29:09,474 where other people 803 00:29:09,775 --> 00:29:11,075 inspire you 804 00:29:11,694 --> 00:29:13,875 in spirit. I love that. Inspire. 805 00:29:14,255 --> 00:29:15,634 And the shared experience 806 00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:19,230 becomes part of the power of the experience. 807 00:29:19,609 --> 00:29:21,850 Yeah. Because it's sometimes you can feel a 808 00:29:21,850 --> 00:29:22,590 little bit 809 00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:24,809 woo woo. You know, you're too far out 810 00:29:24,809 --> 00:29:25,309 there. 811 00:29:25,690 --> 00:29:28,590 And you know your experiences have been powerful, 812 00:29:28,984 --> 00:29:30,605 but, like, who do you tell 813 00:29:31,144 --> 00:29:33,085 those experiences to and 814 00:29:33,465 --> 00:29:34,285 who will appreciate 815 00:29:35,305 --> 00:29:36,765 how powerful they were? 816 00:29:37,144 --> 00:29:38,765 And that was I found really 817 00:29:39,144 --> 00:29:39,644 very 818 00:29:39,945 --> 00:29:40,445 important 819 00:29:41,065 --> 00:29:42,684 for me in the process 820 00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:46,000 of connecting with other people. What's it like 821 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,740 to remember your process so long ago, 822 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,819 some nine years ago? 823 00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:52,579 In preparation for this, 824 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,419 you know, you gave me homework. 825 00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:56,240 So I had to go back and find 826 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,240 my journal, which took me, like, half an 827 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,194 hour. But I found the journal, and I 828 00:30:00,194 --> 00:30:02,775 started reading through it and Your student workbook. 829 00:30:03,075 --> 00:30:04,674 No. No. No. No. I had a a 830 00:30:04,674 --> 00:30:08,035 separate journal. A separate journal. I see. Yeah. 831 00:30:08,035 --> 00:30:10,194 It's it's the writer in me. Right? And 832 00:30:10,194 --> 00:30:12,214 it was in the journal that I really 833 00:30:12,355 --> 00:30:13,575 was able to mine 834 00:30:14,130 --> 00:30:15,829 and realize how many gems 835 00:30:16,450 --> 00:30:18,690 had come from the experience and also where 836 00:30:18,690 --> 00:30:20,849 I struggle with it. But, yeah, I would 837 00:30:20,849 --> 00:30:23,970 recommend anyone who does the process definitely do 838 00:30:23,970 --> 00:30:24,549 the workbook. 839 00:30:25,009 --> 00:30:26,609 But I would encourage you to keep a 840 00:30:26,609 --> 00:30:29,125 journal because there's so much going on that 841 00:30:29,125 --> 00:30:31,365 it's hard to record it all. As much 842 00:30:31,365 --> 00:30:34,085 as patterns come up for you around writing, 843 00:30:34,085 --> 00:30:36,424 you something happens for you in 844 00:30:36,805 --> 00:30:39,224 when you write, you you love it. Right? 845 00:30:39,765 --> 00:30:42,164 Yeah. Yeah. And I have journals dating back 846 00:30:42,164 --> 00:30:42,664 to 847 00:30:43,019 --> 00:30:44,259 1972. 848 00:30:44,259 --> 00:30:46,640 I use some of them for my memoir. 849 00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:49,340 And my next project is to do a 850 00:30:49,340 --> 00:30:50,320 memoir about 851 00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:52,460 the land that we lived in in Saint 852 00:30:52,460 --> 00:30:55,039 Peter, which we had basically brought back. 853 00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:56,880 It was a twenty year process. 854 00:30:57,224 --> 00:30:58,365 And, you know, you forget 855 00:30:59,065 --> 00:31:00,125 some of the experiences. 856 00:31:00,664 --> 00:31:01,724 I would have experienced 857 00:31:02,025 --> 00:31:03,565 I'd be out clearing a trail 858 00:31:04,265 --> 00:31:06,345 for walking in the woods, and I'd look 859 00:31:06,345 --> 00:31:08,025 up and there'd be a great horned owl 860 00:31:08,025 --> 00:31:08,525 just 861 00:31:08,984 --> 00:31:10,684 looking at me like, what are you doing? 862 00:31:10,744 --> 00:31:11,644 What are you doing? 863 00:31:12,025 --> 00:31:12,924 So there was 864 00:31:13,570 --> 00:31:16,210 encounters that if you don't write them down, 865 00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:19,170 they just escape you. Jim, I'm so grateful 866 00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:21,490 for you sharing your story, giving us some 867 00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:23,990 insights from your process, from the memoir, 868 00:31:24,850 --> 00:31:27,509 and this next project sounds exciting. 869 00:31:28,015 --> 00:31:29,694 I didn't know a lot of things about 870 00:31:29,694 --> 00:31:32,654 the writing process, but I found that in 871 00:31:32,654 --> 00:31:33,234 the publicizing 872 00:31:33,934 --> 00:31:36,894 and doing outreach for a memoir or any 873 00:31:36,894 --> 00:31:39,394 book, it's like a full time job. 874 00:31:39,855 --> 00:31:41,454 So I had thought, well, while I'm doing 875 00:31:41,454 --> 00:31:43,829 that, I'll also start working on the second 876 00:31:44,069 --> 00:31:46,490 installment of the memoir working on the land. 877 00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:49,429 And I've not been able to. So I'm 878 00:31:49,429 --> 00:31:50,250 looking forward 879 00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:52,710 to there being a lull where I can 880 00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:54,869 get back to it. I've already been talking 881 00:31:54,869 --> 00:31:57,109 with my writing groups about how do I 882 00:31:57,109 --> 00:31:59,734 get back into it. The title is an 883 00:31:59,734 --> 00:32:01,275 I e y e 884 00:32:01,894 --> 00:32:02,954 for an I, 885 00:32:03,734 --> 00:32:04,714 letter I. 886 00:32:05,894 --> 00:32:07,194 Growing up with blindness, 887 00:32:08,454 --> 00:32:08,954 bigotry, 888 00:32:09,974 --> 00:32:12,154 and family mental illness. 889 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,039 So an eye for an eye growing up 890 00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:15,700 with blindness, 891 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:18,099 bigotry, and family mental illness. 892 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:21,700 It's available through the University of Minnesota Press. 893 00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:23,940 So thank you for letting me do that. 894 00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:26,285 Jim, thank you for this conversation. 895 00:32:27,305 --> 00:32:29,005 My pleasure. Appreciate it. 896 00:32:36,664 --> 00:32:38,720 Thank you for listening to our podcast. My 897 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,119 name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and 898 00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:43,299 president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. 899 00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:45,059 And I'm Razi Ingrassi, 900 00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:48,720 Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute 901 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,220 Foundation. 902 00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:52,740 Our mission is to provide people greater access 903 00:32:52,755 --> 00:32:55,154 to the wisdom and power of love. In 904 00:32:55,154 --> 00:32:57,654 themselves, in each other and in the world. 905 00:32:57,954 --> 00:33:01,654 To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.