1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:03,199 So much of what I was trying to 2 00:00:03,199 --> 00:00:03,699 address 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:04,900 was 4 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:08,099 so buried deep within me. It was like 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,099 scratching an impossible 6 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,799 itch and then finally I got to Hoffman 7 00:00:12,799 --> 00:00:14,724 and I was like, oh my gosh, I 8 00:00:14,724 --> 00:00:15,945 can reach the spot. 9 00:00:16,404 --> 00:00:16,904 Wow. 10 00:00:17,605 --> 00:00:19,385 This is wild, you know? 11 00:00:21,125 --> 00:00:24,085 Hello, and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a 12 00:00:24,085 --> 00:00:26,824 podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. 13 00:00:27,044 --> 00:00:28,884 My name is Sadie Hanna. And in this 14 00:00:28,884 --> 00:00:32,649 podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with 15 00:00:32,649 --> 00:00:35,850 graduates about their courageous journey inward and how 16 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:38,490 their love and light are living in the 17 00:00:38,490 --> 00:00:41,149 world around them. Love's everyday radius. 18 00:00:41,530 --> 00:00:43,149 Thank you for being here and welcome. 19 00:00:51,414 --> 00:00:51,914 Welcome 20 00:00:52,614 --> 00:00:55,335 to Love's Everyday Radius. I'm here with Emma 21 00:00:55,335 --> 00:00:57,574 Swift. Emma is a Hoffman grad. She's also 22 00:00:57,574 --> 00:00:58,234 a musician. 23 00:00:59,030 --> 00:01:00,710 Emma, thank you for being here with us 24 00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:03,030 today. Thanks so much for having me. So 25 00:01:03,030 --> 00:01:04,569 happy to have this conversation. 26 00:01:05,510 --> 00:01:07,989 Maybe you can begin by telling us a 27 00:01:07,989 --> 00:01:10,549 bit about who you are, what you do 28 00:01:10,549 --> 00:01:11,450 in the world, 29 00:01:12,165 --> 00:01:13,924 and any part of your journey you'd like 30 00:01:13,924 --> 00:01:16,805 to begin with? Okay. Oh my goodness. Where 31 00:01:16,805 --> 00:01:19,924 to begin? I'm an Australian person. I now 32 00:01:19,924 --> 00:01:21,225 live in Nashville, Tennessee, 33 00:01:21,765 --> 00:01:25,625 and I have done so since around 2012. 34 00:01:26,060 --> 00:01:27,920 I'm married to a British person, 35 00:01:28,219 --> 00:01:30,459 and that means that my accent is now 36 00:01:30,459 --> 00:01:32,719 just very geographically confused. 37 00:01:34,299 --> 00:01:36,159 That's a good place for me to start. 38 00:01:36,619 --> 00:01:37,920 And it's in 39 00:01:38,584 --> 00:01:41,465 Nashville and in The United States more broadly 40 00:01:41,465 --> 00:01:42,284 that I 41 00:01:42,665 --> 00:01:45,545 sort of began my self development journey that 42 00:01:45,545 --> 00:01:47,405 led me to doing the Hoffman process. 43 00:01:48,104 --> 00:01:50,424 I found out about the process through a 44 00:01:50,424 --> 00:01:52,799 friend of mine, and we were just talking, 45 00:01:53,019 --> 00:01:55,359 as friends do, about different 46 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:59,579 family stuff and struggles that we'd had. And 47 00:01:59,579 --> 00:02:01,819 she was a Hoffman grad and she said 48 00:02:01,819 --> 00:02:03,259 to me, you know, I really think that 49 00:02:03,259 --> 00:02:05,280 you might get a lot out of 50 00:02:05,744 --> 00:02:08,164 going to this kind of hippie retreat 51 00:02:09,025 --> 00:02:11,185 is how she phrased it. And, and I 52 00:02:11,185 --> 00:02:11,685 thought, 53 00:02:12,145 --> 00:02:14,245 yeah, that sounds like a really 54 00:02:14,705 --> 00:02:16,084 cool thing to do. 55 00:02:16,705 --> 00:02:18,944 And I guess I filed it away in 56 00:02:18,944 --> 00:02:20,405 the back of my mind 57 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,599 and I didn't really think about it. You 58 00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:23,099 know, 59 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,659 the germ of the idea was there, 60 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,180 but it wasn't until 61 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,699 around twenty eighteen, I went through a blue 62 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:31,260 period. 63 00:02:31,719 --> 00:02:33,480 I was in my late thirties, feeling a 64 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,540 little bit stuck, 65 00:02:34,925 --> 00:02:37,485 a bit confused as to where my life 66 00:02:37,485 --> 00:02:40,384 was going, not in a personal sense, 67 00:02:40,685 --> 00:02:43,004 but in a professional sense. I felt like 68 00:02:43,004 --> 00:02:44,844 I was in a rut, but I also 69 00:02:44,844 --> 00:02:47,245 knew that it wasn't just about that. And 70 00:02:47,245 --> 00:02:49,004 so that made me think, okay, maybe it's 71 00:02:49,004 --> 00:02:51,259 time to go. So I applied 72 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,239 to go to the Hoffman process and I 73 00:02:53,239 --> 00:02:55,180 went in early twenty nineteen 74 00:02:55,879 --> 00:02:57,419 and it changed my life. 75 00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:59,560 The word hippie retreat is in my mind 76 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,459 and I'm smiling. 77 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,895 Did you experience the Hoffman process as a 78 00:03:03,895 --> 00:03:05,594 hippie place? I'm just curious. 79 00:03:06,215 --> 00:03:08,614 No, actually I didn't. Once I was there, 80 00:03:08,614 --> 00:03:10,614 you know, one of my first jobs when 81 00:03:10,614 --> 00:03:12,854 I was in college, I put myself in 82 00:03:12,854 --> 00:03:14,099 college through college, like 83 00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:17,460 working in a crystal shop in Sydney in 84 00:03:17,460 --> 00:03:20,659 Australia. So, you know, I guess though in 85 00:03:20,659 --> 00:03:22,260 my mind, and I think in a lot 86 00:03:22,260 --> 00:03:24,819 of people's minds, especially if you're not from 87 00:03:24,819 --> 00:03:25,319 there, 88 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:27,000 Northern California 89 00:03:28,105 --> 00:03:29,405 is very evocative 90 00:03:29,784 --> 00:03:30,284 of 91 00:03:30,665 --> 00:03:31,724 the late 1960s 92 00:03:32,025 --> 00:03:34,025 and, you know, I'm in music. So people 93 00:03:34,025 --> 00:03:37,085 kind of immediately think of the Jefferson Airplane 94 00:03:37,224 --> 00:03:39,865 or the Grateful Dead and, and stuff like 95 00:03:39,865 --> 00:03:42,665 that. So in my mind, that's what Northern 96 00:03:42,665 --> 00:03:43,165 California 97 00:03:43,669 --> 00:03:46,469 meant to me. And certainly to, you know, 98 00:03:46,469 --> 00:03:49,370 there's definitely elements of that in the area, 99 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:52,870 but that's not what Hoffman is, but in 100 00:03:52,870 --> 00:03:53,610 my head, 101 00:03:53,909 --> 00:03:56,250 that's that's what it was going to be. 102 00:03:57,625 --> 00:03:59,884 You know, it does have Northern California's 103 00:04:00,425 --> 00:04:00,925 granola 104 00:04:01,384 --> 00:04:02,284 and Birkenstocks 105 00:04:02,824 --> 00:04:05,784 kind of idea. And maybe the process began 106 00:04:05,784 --> 00:04:08,905 in some of that hippie era because it 107 00:04:08,905 --> 00:04:11,245 began sixty years ago in Berkeley. 108 00:04:11,930 --> 00:04:15,550 Yeah, exactly. And that essential message of love 109 00:04:15,849 --> 00:04:18,029 and light and actually 110 00:04:18,730 --> 00:04:21,389 trying to become a better person 111 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:24,910 and a more loving and a more kinder 112 00:04:25,290 --> 00:04:26,430 person is 113 00:04:26,964 --> 00:04:29,285 to me a part of that ethos, you 114 00:04:29,285 --> 00:04:31,604 know? So like whether or not Hoffman is 115 00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:32,264 that now, 116 00:04:32,725 --> 00:04:35,285 it wasn't off putting to me. In fact, 117 00:04:35,285 --> 00:04:36,745 it made it very appealing. 118 00:04:37,204 --> 00:04:39,064 And then I didn't get there and go, 119 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,759 there's not as much cheesecloth and Birkenstocks here 120 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:43,459 as I like. I'm gonna go. 121 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,180 There was probably initially somewhat of a radical 122 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:49,540 sense of 123 00:04:49,919 --> 00:04:50,419 love. 124 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,495 It's become so much more commonplace. It's almost, 125 00:04:54,654 --> 00:04:55,475 you know, meditation 126 00:04:56,334 --> 00:04:56,834 and 127 00:04:57,214 --> 00:04:59,634 becoming a more loving person and personal development. 128 00:04:59,694 --> 00:05:02,014 This is such an accepted part of our 129 00:05:02,014 --> 00:05:05,714 culture now. I'm just noticing how that's evolved. 130 00:05:06,014 --> 00:05:08,720 And isn't that a wonderful thing? It certainly 131 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,879 wasn't part of the culture where I grew 132 00:05:10,879 --> 00:05:11,379 up 133 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:12,660 in Australia. 134 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,560 I grew up in the nineties. I was 135 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,100 a teenager in the 1990s, 136 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:17,060 but 137 00:05:17,439 --> 00:05:18,980 it could have been the 1950s 138 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,360 for all that was going on where I 139 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,814 lived. Cause I lived in a small regional 140 00:05:23,814 --> 00:05:24,314 town. 141 00:05:24,774 --> 00:05:27,034 It was the pre internet days. 142 00:05:27,495 --> 00:05:30,375 I'd never even really heard of meditation until 143 00:05:30,375 --> 00:05:32,474 my best friend from college, 144 00:05:33,175 --> 00:05:35,675 or school rather, she went to Nepal 145 00:05:36,055 --> 00:05:38,350 and meditated for a year, the year after 146 00:05:38,350 --> 00:05:40,990 we left school is kind of amazing and 147 00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:42,050 way more advanced 148 00:05:42,350 --> 00:05:43,169 on her journey 149 00:05:43,709 --> 00:05:46,029 than I am and definitely was at the 150 00:05:46,029 --> 00:05:48,430 time. So how did you end up in 151 00:05:48,430 --> 00:05:51,250 Nashville? Will you take us even way back? 152 00:05:51,685 --> 00:05:52,504 Oh, sure. 153 00:05:53,285 --> 00:05:54,824 I fell in love with America 154 00:05:55,685 --> 00:05:57,685 when I first came to visit here in 155 00:05:57,685 --> 00:05:58,904 2009. 156 00:05:59,044 --> 00:06:00,185 I was 27 157 00:06:00,725 --> 00:06:03,144 and I rented a 158 00:06:03,444 --> 00:06:06,399 car with my best friend and we drove 159 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:09,199 it through the desert. We drove it through 160 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:09,699 California 161 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:10,899 and Arizona. 162 00:06:11,599 --> 00:06:13,620 And I just thought, oh, this is magical. 163 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,579 I really want to come and live here. 164 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,805 I felt very drawn to it. On a 165 00:06:18,805 --> 00:06:20,964 deep soul level, I knew that I had 166 00:06:20,964 --> 00:06:23,285 work here to do, but I didn't really 167 00:06:23,285 --> 00:06:25,545 know what that was going to look like. 168 00:06:25,845 --> 00:06:28,985 Fortunately for me, I'm a deeply impractical person. 169 00:06:29,524 --> 00:06:32,165 So I just decided, oh, you know what? 170 00:06:32,165 --> 00:06:33,225 I'll go to Nashville. 171 00:06:33,620 --> 00:06:35,939 I play music. It seems like a fun 172 00:06:35,939 --> 00:06:36,439 town. 173 00:06:36,899 --> 00:06:39,540 I don't play country music, but it was 174 00:06:39,540 --> 00:06:41,620 just a city and it remains a city 175 00:06:41,620 --> 00:06:43,720 that's just brimming with creative, 176 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:45,240 wonderful people. 177 00:06:45,694 --> 00:06:48,014 And there's lots of really good ideas in 178 00:06:48,014 --> 00:06:50,194 this place. And at that time, 179 00:06:50,574 --> 00:06:52,414 I'd quit my day job in Australia. I 180 00:06:52,414 --> 00:06:53,235 was a journalist 181 00:06:53,694 --> 00:06:55,474 and Nashville was very affordable. 182 00:06:56,014 --> 00:06:57,294 So I knew that I would be able 183 00:06:57,294 --> 00:06:59,375 to live off my savings until I figured 184 00:06:59,375 --> 00:06:59,954 it out 185 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,079 Or or I could just go back to 186 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:03,579 Sydney, 187 00:07:03,879 --> 00:07:06,699 and that would be fine too. Deeply impractical 188 00:07:07,079 --> 00:07:08,060 but inspired 189 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,699 young woman moves to Nashville 190 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,120 playing not country music. What kind of music 191 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:14,939 were you playing? 192 00:07:15,375 --> 00:07:17,375 Well, it's much more folky. It's sort of 193 00:07:17,375 --> 00:07:20,415 in the indie rock folk universe. I love 194 00:07:20,415 --> 00:07:22,654 Bob Dylan and I love Joan Baez and 195 00:07:22,654 --> 00:07:24,254 I I love all of that kind of 196 00:07:24,254 --> 00:07:25,475 stuff. I'm a deeply 197 00:07:26,014 --> 00:07:26,995 old fashioned 198 00:07:27,730 --> 00:07:28,230 person. 199 00:07:29,810 --> 00:07:31,730 So that's the kind of stuff that I 200 00:07:31,730 --> 00:07:33,810 was doing. But then I moved here and, 201 00:07:34,449 --> 00:07:35,990 everybody's so creative 202 00:07:36,370 --> 00:07:38,129 and it brought up, and this is, you 203 00:07:38,129 --> 00:07:39,649 know, one of the things that got me 204 00:07:39,649 --> 00:07:41,649 to Hoffman, you know, I moved to a 205 00:07:41,649 --> 00:07:43,189 place where I didn't know anybody 206 00:07:44,185 --> 00:07:46,824 and I was making new friends, but I 207 00:07:46,824 --> 00:07:47,324 wasn't 208 00:07:48,105 --> 00:07:50,525 in any of my old routine. 209 00:07:51,305 --> 00:07:52,985 I wasn't in the city I was born 210 00:07:52,985 --> 00:07:54,845 in. I wasn't near my family. 211 00:07:55,545 --> 00:07:58,610 A lot of feelings were bubbling up about 212 00:07:58,910 --> 00:07:59,889 who am I? 213 00:08:00,430 --> 00:08:02,209 Where do I belong in the world? 214 00:08:02,669 --> 00:08:04,769 Who am I in relation to 215 00:08:05,389 --> 00:08:07,790 this life that I'm trying to live? Who 216 00:08:07,790 --> 00:08:10,209 am I in relationship to my friends? 217 00:08:10,644 --> 00:08:12,904 Who am I in relationship to my family? 218 00:08:13,604 --> 00:08:14,985 What does it all mean? 219 00:08:16,404 --> 00:08:18,824 I had all these feelings, but I didn't 220 00:08:19,524 --> 00:08:21,224 quite know how to 221 00:08:21,524 --> 00:08:22,504 express them. 222 00:08:22,805 --> 00:08:23,784 I was very, 223 00:08:24,389 --> 00:08:25,689 very buttoned up, 224 00:08:26,069 --> 00:08:27,050 raised Catholic, 225 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:30,089 generation after generation of 226 00:08:30,629 --> 00:08:31,850 feelings are to be 227 00:08:33,669 --> 00:08:34,649 pushed down. 228 00:08:35,429 --> 00:08:36,889 And I didn't like that 229 00:08:37,315 --> 00:08:38,134 about myself. 230 00:08:39,235 --> 00:08:40,754 And then as I think a lot of 231 00:08:40,754 --> 00:08:41,894 people find, you know, 232 00:08:42,274 --> 00:08:45,074 they get married and I got married and, 233 00:08:45,954 --> 00:08:47,254 so many of my 234 00:08:47,714 --> 00:08:50,774 issues came up in this really beautiful, loving 235 00:08:50,995 --> 00:08:51,495 relationship 236 00:08:51,954 --> 00:08:52,855 that I have. 237 00:08:53,290 --> 00:08:55,450 I was like, oh, I think I've got 238 00:08:55,450 --> 00:08:56,509 some work to do. 239 00:08:57,129 --> 00:08:59,049 So were you already in Nashville when you 240 00:08:59,049 --> 00:09:03,149 got married? Yeah. Yeah. In moving and leaving 241 00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:03,710 home, 242 00:09:04,649 --> 00:09:06,570 it's like a new lens on who you 243 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:08,024 are? Yeah. Absolutely. 244 00:09:08,565 --> 00:09:10,325 A new lens on who you are because 245 00:09:10,325 --> 00:09:12,585 I think anybody who has 246 00:09:13,125 --> 00:09:14,264 been an expatriate 247 00:09:15,044 --> 00:09:15,865 or immigrated, 248 00:09:16,485 --> 00:09:18,985 particularly if you do it as a solo 249 00:09:19,044 --> 00:09:19,544 person, 250 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:22,149 that's gonna bring up some stuff 251 00:09:22,610 --> 00:09:23,110 because 252 00:09:23,570 --> 00:09:24,710 it's a self imposed 253 00:09:25,170 --> 00:09:27,889 loneliness. You know, it's something that you or 254 00:09:27,889 --> 00:09:29,590 at least in my experience of it, 255 00:09:30,129 --> 00:09:32,950 I wanted it and I craved it. 256 00:09:34,214 --> 00:09:36,214 But then when I had it, I was 257 00:09:36,214 --> 00:09:39,034 like, oh man, what have I done? 258 00:09:40,534 --> 00:09:41,674 There's that romanticism 259 00:09:42,054 --> 00:09:44,634 of that too. There's the wandering soul. 260 00:09:44,934 --> 00:09:46,554 There's also the explorer. 261 00:09:47,330 --> 00:09:49,090 It's not just the new lands that you're 262 00:09:49,090 --> 00:09:51,190 exploring. It's the new land within yourself 263 00:09:51,889 --> 00:09:53,410 where you're going, okay, what am I in 264 00:09:53,410 --> 00:09:54,870 relation to this? Because 265 00:09:55,330 --> 00:09:57,649 it's like when you're at Hoffman and we 266 00:09:57,649 --> 00:09:58,950 don't really talk about 267 00:09:59,264 --> 00:10:01,745 jobs or anything like that. When you move, 268 00:10:01,745 --> 00:10:03,504 it's kind of a similar thing. You're taken 269 00:10:03,504 --> 00:10:05,365 out of context. You're no longer 270 00:10:05,745 --> 00:10:07,985 running into Bob, who you went to high 271 00:10:07,985 --> 00:10:10,085 school with at the supermarket or 272 00:10:10,865 --> 00:10:11,845 Jane, who 273 00:10:12,305 --> 00:10:14,580 worked at the same job as you. You're 274 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:16,820 kind of like, okay, who am I in 275 00:10:16,820 --> 00:10:20,120 this world? It's almost like you go away 276 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:23,240 and then something new emerges. 277 00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:27,059 That then followed by an intimate relationship that 278 00:10:27,059 --> 00:10:29,379 was loving and safe also could then mirror 279 00:10:29,379 --> 00:10:32,065 back the parts of yourself that maybe you 280 00:10:32,065 --> 00:10:32,884 hadn't seen. 281 00:10:33,664 --> 00:10:34,964 Absolutely. Totally. 282 00:10:35,345 --> 00:10:38,065 So for me, in my particular experience, what 283 00:10:38,065 --> 00:10:40,945 had happened was I just thought, oh, if 284 00:10:40,945 --> 00:10:42,884 I moved to a town full of songwriters, 285 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:45,960 my feelings will uncork and I will be 286 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,120 a songwriter and I married a songwriter. And 287 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,639 then I was still here and I was 288 00:10:49,639 --> 00:10:52,220 still this very repressed Catholic person 289 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,620 or lapsed Catholic person. 290 00:10:55,879 --> 00:10:58,394 And I was really annoyed at myself. I 291 00:10:58,394 --> 00:11:00,795 thought I'd done all the right things. And 292 00:11:00,795 --> 00:11:02,955 that was when I was like, actually, you 293 00:11:02,955 --> 00:11:04,634 know, I think I might need to do 294 00:11:04,634 --> 00:11:05,695 some work. 295 00:11:06,715 --> 00:11:08,154 You know, that thing in the world where 296 00:11:08,154 --> 00:11:10,875 you're like, oh no, I have this recurring 297 00:11:10,875 --> 00:11:12,975 problem and the problem is me. 298 00:11:14,570 --> 00:11:16,730 Yeah. So, Emma, how did you know you 299 00:11:16,730 --> 00:11:19,929 were repressed? Is there a story or an 300 00:11:19,929 --> 00:11:20,429 experience 301 00:11:20,889 --> 00:11:23,210 you could describe? Like, how did you have 302 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:25,790 a sense that you were not expressing yourself? 303 00:11:26,764 --> 00:11:28,684 I would just go to write and I 304 00:11:28,684 --> 00:11:30,684 would sit there with my guitar and I 305 00:11:30,684 --> 00:11:33,164 would sing the songs and I was just 306 00:11:33,164 --> 00:11:34,065 very uncomfortable, 307 00:11:34,605 --> 00:11:37,004 but I admired it so much in other 308 00:11:37,004 --> 00:11:37,504 people. 309 00:11:38,125 --> 00:11:39,965 And then it's that, you know, you spot 310 00:11:39,965 --> 00:11:42,230 it, you got it. I would see other 311 00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:44,330 people doing it and I would feel 312 00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:45,370 sad. 313 00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:48,629 You know, I would have that craving of, 314 00:11:48,629 --> 00:11:49,370 oh man, 315 00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:51,929 I long to be able to do that. 316 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:55,129 I've got this yearning to do that. 317 00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:56,330 And so 318 00:11:57,154 --> 00:11:58,535 that's how I knew 319 00:11:59,154 --> 00:12:01,975 the most. Like I'm quite, I think, expressive 320 00:12:02,115 --> 00:12:04,434 in other aspects of myself. It was more 321 00:12:04,434 --> 00:12:07,014 just with my creativity that I was like, 322 00:12:07,075 --> 00:12:09,575 oh, this feels a little bit too vulnerable, 323 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,340 too close. 324 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:14,660 I love how you described 325 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,500 how you see 326 00:12:17,039 --> 00:12:20,580 that something you appreciate, but even long for 327 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:22,960 in someone else could create a sense of 328 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,365 sadness, but it sounds like you were really 329 00:12:25,585 --> 00:12:27,205 realizing that was something 330 00:12:27,745 --> 00:12:29,284 I knew within myself 331 00:12:30,144 --> 00:12:33,684 and I wanted more permission or more expression 332 00:12:33,825 --> 00:12:34,325 of 333 00:12:34,945 --> 00:12:35,695 it. Yes, 334 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,879 totally. It was very frustrating. I was in 335 00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:42,320 a real pattern of oscillating between sadness and 336 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:43,139 then frustration 337 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:45,200 because I could see it, but I just 338 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,320 couldn't get myself over the hump. Felt very 339 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,160 stuck. I think a lot of people that 340 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,475 are listening would resonate with seeing 341 00:12:52,855 --> 00:12:53,754 it, the awareness 342 00:12:54,134 --> 00:12:56,475 of it, and it's not changing. 343 00:12:57,894 --> 00:13:00,714 What happened next? You decided to come. 344 00:13:01,575 --> 00:13:04,660 I decided to come and I think I 345 00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:07,240 must have enrolled in November or December. 346 00:13:07,779 --> 00:13:10,500 And it was very nice because it meant 347 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,419 this is in 2018. And so it meant 348 00:13:12,419 --> 00:13:15,480 that I was starting the new year 349 00:13:16,019 --> 00:13:19,000 in a new way. It was very much 350 00:13:19,524 --> 00:13:20,345 in my head. 351 00:13:20,964 --> 00:13:21,784 New year, 352 00:13:22,325 --> 00:13:23,065 new me. 353 00:13:23,445 --> 00:13:25,144 I'm going to go to Northern California 354 00:13:25,845 --> 00:13:28,184 and I'm just going to see what 355 00:13:28,884 --> 00:13:29,384 happens. 356 00:13:30,804 --> 00:13:31,304 And 357 00:13:31,684 --> 00:13:32,424 it was 358 00:13:32,940 --> 00:13:33,840 utterly magical 359 00:13:34,299 --> 00:13:34,799 and 360 00:13:35,259 --> 00:13:37,279 not at all what I expected 361 00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:38,879 in a very 362 00:13:39,899 --> 00:13:40,879 good way 363 00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:44,160 in that I think that I was just 364 00:13:44,860 --> 00:13:46,160 very, very challenged. 365 00:13:46,774 --> 00:13:48,695 There was no way that I was going 366 00:13:48,695 --> 00:13:51,414 to be able to fumble my way through 367 00:13:51,414 --> 00:13:53,495 it. You know what I mean? You know 368 00:13:53,495 --> 00:13:55,914 what I mean? Like, it's an intense experience. 369 00:13:56,375 --> 00:13:58,774 It was very all in. It was very 370 00:13:58,774 --> 00:13:59,274 challenging. 371 00:14:00,709 --> 00:14:03,429 It's funny to to use this word, but 372 00:14:03,429 --> 00:14:04,870 it's the word that I wanna use. So 373 00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:06,889 I'm gonna use it. It was enjoyable 374 00:14:07,909 --> 00:14:10,649 even though it was really emotionally intense. 375 00:14:11,589 --> 00:14:13,534 And I think that's part of that is 376 00:14:13,534 --> 00:14:15,294 because so much of what I was trying 377 00:14:15,294 --> 00:14:16,115 to address 378 00:14:16,975 --> 00:14:17,475 was 379 00:14:17,774 --> 00:14:20,514 so buried deep within me. It was like 380 00:14:21,774 --> 00:14:22,995 scratching an impossible 381 00:14:23,375 --> 00:14:25,774 itch. And then finally, I got to Hoffman 382 00:14:25,774 --> 00:14:27,639 and I was like, oh my gosh, I 383 00:14:27,639 --> 00:14:28,860 can reach the spot. 384 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:29,820 Wow. 385 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:32,299 This is wild. You know? 386 00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:35,259 To have the experience of 387 00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:36,539 that frustration, 388 00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:38,779 even though it may be intense 389 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,860 and probably at times 390 00:14:41,725 --> 00:14:42,225 emotionally 391 00:14:42,605 --> 00:14:45,325 difficult or painful, that that could feel like 392 00:14:45,325 --> 00:14:46,065 a relief 393 00:14:46,524 --> 00:14:47,264 to finally 394 00:14:47,804 --> 00:14:50,365 work with it. Totally. And I mean, to 395 00:14:50,365 --> 00:14:52,684 go back to the core of, you know, 396 00:14:52,684 --> 00:14:54,785 the Hoffman experience, really, 397 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:58,299 because I wasn't very loving to myself. 398 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:01,500 I've got a pattern of being 399 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,040 part of that frustration and that sadness is 400 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,420 like, I'm hard on myself. 401 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,700 And when you're someone that's hard on yourself, 402 00:15:09,644 --> 00:15:11,184 then you're hard on other people. 403 00:15:11,804 --> 00:15:13,105 You're hard on the world. 404 00:15:14,125 --> 00:15:15,264 That's not a very 405 00:15:15,565 --> 00:15:16,065 nice 406 00:15:16,684 --> 00:15:17,664 way to be. 407 00:15:18,284 --> 00:15:20,044 You know, it makes me tear up thinking 408 00:15:20,044 --> 00:15:21,264 about it, but it's like, 409 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:22,370 it 410 00:15:22,830 --> 00:15:23,490 was so 411 00:15:24,190 --> 00:15:24,690 good 412 00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:28,370 for me to learn how to soften. 413 00:15:28,830 --> 00:15:31,889 Is there a moment that you remember 414 00:15:32,269 --> 00:15:35,649 in your process where you felt that softening? 415 00:15:36,204 --> 00:15:38,225 There's quite a few moments, actually. 416 00:15:38,684 --> 00:15:41,345 I mean, to me, the most standout 417 00:15:41,884 --> 00:15:42,384 experience 418 00:15:42,924 --> 00:15:43,424 was 419 00:15:44,044 --> 00:15:45,184 the really physical 420 00:15:46,284 --> 00:15:46,784 stuff, 421 00:15:47,245 --> 00:15:50,065 the writing down of my mom and dad's 422 00:15:50,125 --> 00:15:50,625 patterns, 423 00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:54,210 and then writing my response of, do I 424 00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:56,370 have these patterns or do I have the 425 00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:57,590 reaction to this? 426 00:15:58,210 --> 00:15:59,910 You know, it's very intense 427 00:16:01,009 --> 00:16:01,509 mirror, 428 00:16:02,450 --> 00:16:06,149 but then physically being able to break that 429 00:16:06,444 --> 00:16:06,944 down 430 00:16:07,565 --> 00:16:08,865 was extraordinary. 431 00:16:10,284 --> 00:16:10,784 Having, 432 00:16:11,245 --> 00:16:12,384 I think, forgiveness 433 00:16:13,404 --> 00:16:15,264 and a much greater understanding 434 00:16:15,565 --> 00:16:16,065 of 435 00:16:16,524 --> 00:16:20,044 how little control we have over the patterns 436 00:16:20,044 --> 00:16:22,899 that come up for us. It's like you're 437 00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:24,660 a fish in a stream and the current's 438 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:26,019 gonna go one way or it's gonna go 439 00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:27,940 the other way, but, like, there is a 440 00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:28,440 current. 441 00:16:29,139 --> 00:16:30,360 That was very 442 00:16:30,740 --> 00:16:31,960 important for me. 443 00:16:32,419 --> 00:16:34,660 The other one too was writing letters and 444 00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:37,160 that stuff, getting into that imagining. 445 00:16:37,934 --> 00:16:39,774 I love the metaphor of the fish and 446 00:16:39,774 --> 00:16:42,014 the current. There is a current one way 447 00:16:42,014 --> 00:16:44,335 or another. We all have a childhood. We 448 00:16:44,335 --> 00:16:46,115 all have parents who have certain 449 00:16:46,495 --> 00:16:49,475 behaviors, beliefs, patterns, ways of disciplining 450 00:16:50,299 --> 00:16:53,899 that become part of your behaviors, connecting those 451 00:16:53,899 --> 00:16:54,399 dots, 452 00:16:55,019 --> 00:16:57,419 seeing the mirror, and then being able to 453 00:16:57,419 --> 00:16:58,480 dismantle it. 454 00:16:58,940 --> 00:17:00,879 To dismantle it and have 455 00:17:01,419 --> 00:17:01,919 some 456 00:17:02,779 --> 00:17:03,279 grace 457 00:17:04,214 --> 00:17:05,595 and some compassion 458 00:17:06,134 --> 00:17:08,154 around it was very, 459 00:17:09,015 --> 00:17:10,075 very important 460 00:17:10,535 --> 00:17:12,634 for me. And that softening 461 00:17:13,174 --> 00:17:15,035 where you realize you didn't choose 462 00:17:15,494 --> 00:17:18,130 to be hard on yourself or hard on 463 00:17:18,130 --> 00:17:19,590 the world or repressed. 464 00:17:20,289 --> 00:17:22,789 Right. Just as my parents didn't choose 465 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:24,630 their patterns either. 466 00:17:25,410 --> 00:17:28,130 It was just so important for me to, 467 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:29,509 as you say, dismantle 468 00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:31,910 that mirror and kind of 469 00:17:32,365 --> 00:17:33,825 feel a sense of relief 470 00:17:34,605 --> 00:17:35,265 about that. 471 00:17:36,284 --> 00:17:38,865 What did you see? What was the perspective 472 00:17:39,005 --> 00:17:39,505 shift? 473 00:17:39,964 --> 00:17:42,125 I think the perspective shift that I was 474 00:17:42,125 --> 00:17:43,105 just so grateful 475 00:17:43,964 --> 00:17:45,744 to be in the world, 476 00:17:46,259 --> 00:17:48,580 you know, to have been given this gift 477 00:17:48,580 --> 00:17:49,799 of life. 478 00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:53,640 I love my life and I really like 479 00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:57,160 who I've grown into being as a person. 480 00:17:57,619 --> 00:17:59,960 And my parents gave me that. 481 00:18:00,365 --> 00:18:02,684 They gave me that gift. Did they have 482 00:18:02,684 --> 00:18:03,184 limitations? 483 00:18:04,045 --> 00:18:04,545 Sure. 484 00:18:05,244 --> 00:18:06,305 I have limitations. 485 00:18:06,924 --> 00:18:08,225 We all have limitations, 486 00:18:09,085 --> 00:18:10,765 but they were just doing the best that 487 00:18:10,765 --> 00:18:11,904 they could do 488 00:18:12,445 --> 00:18:13,904 in the circumstances. 489 00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:18,120 And that was really important for me. 490 00:18:19,059 --> 00:18:20,980 And you can go back to your family 491 00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:23,460 and you can maybe have conversations with people, 492 00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:25,940 but like my dad had passed, you know, 493 00:18:25,940 --> 00:18:27,799 he died when I was 21. 494 00:18:28,365 --> 00:18:28,865 So 495 00:18:29,325 --> 00:18:31,904 in many ways, I was doing the healing 496 00:18:32,365 --> 00:18:33,505 for both of us 497 00:18:33,805 --> 00:18:35,664 there because it was 498 00:18:36,045 --> 00:18:37,964 a conversation that we were never gonna be 499 00:18:37,964 --> 00:18:38,865 able to have 500 00:18:39,404 --> 00:18:39,904 together. 501 00:18:41,325 --> 00:18:42,065 I would 502 00:18:42,365 --> 00:18:43,345 love to 503 00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:46,309 have been able to see him and say, 504 00:18:46,609 --> 00:18:49,109 I see you and I love you, 505 00:18:49,570 --> 00:18:52,450 but I couldn't do that in like the 506 00:18:52,450 --> 00:18:53,509 physical world, 507 00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:56,950 but on a spiritual level, on my spiritual 508 00:18:57,089 --> 00:18:57,910 self level, 509 00:18:58,664 --> 00:19:00,045 I could do that. 510 00:19:00,664 --> 00:19:02,684 And that really healed 511 00:19:03,225 --> 00:19:03,725 something 512 00:19:04,424 --> 00:19:07,565 in me because I guess I no longer 513 00:19:09,305 --> 00:19:10,845 felt this sense of, 514 00:19:11,549 --> 00:19:13,309 oh, it's broken and he's gone so it 515 00:19:13,309 --> 00:19:14,529 can never be fixed, 516 00:19:15,549 --> 00:19:17,730 which is definitely something I had been 517 00:19:18,349 --> 00:19:21,149 carrying around, which I think can happen if 518 00:19:21,149 --> 00:19:22,130 you lose someone 519 00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:24,130 in grief suddenly, 520 00:19:25,024 --> 00:19:27,585 at least in my experience of it, I 521 00:19:27,585 --> 00:19:28,964 had this feeling that 522 00:19:29,585 --> 00:19:32,224 there was this unresolved tension that was never 523 00:19:32,224 --> 00:19:33,204 gonna go away. 524 00:19:34,544 --> 00:19:36,565 And it felt very unfair. 525 00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:40,879 And again, that pattern of frustration or my 526 00:19:40,879 --> 00:19:42,500 other patterns of rage 527 00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:44,339 really came up there. 528 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,200 I'm so mad at you. And you're not 529 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,879 here to me to say that I'm so 530 00:19:48,879 --> 00:19:50,879 mad at you, but also I love you 531 00:19:50,879 --> 00:19:52,319 so much. And you're not here that I 532 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:54,125 can say I love you so much either. 533 00:19:55,224 --> 00:19:56,205 So it was 534 00:19:56,585 --> 00:19:57,565 very helpful 535 00:19:58,664 --> 00:19:59,884 for me to 536 00:20:00,505 --> 00:20:01,964 actually give myself permission 537 00:20:02,984 --> 00:20:03,484 to 538 00:20:04,265 --> 00:20:05,565 still have that conversation. 539 00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:09,079 You're speaking about a moment where you were 540 00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:11,740 able to have an experience of completion 541 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:12,700 or closure 542 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,500 well beyond the time that he died. 543 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:16,700 Right. 544 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,460 And that goes back 545 00:20:18,894 --> 00:20:21,535 generations too. You know, that's I can do 546 00:20:21,535 --> 00:20:22,994 that for my grandparents 547 00:20:23,295 --> 00:20:26,194 too. I can see the ancestral line, 548 00:20:26,494 --> 00:20:27,875 you know, that tug. 549 00:20:28,654 --> 00:20:29,795 You described 550 00:20:30,174 --> 00:20:30,674 feeling 551 00:20:31,559 --> 00:20:32,059 grateful 552 00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:35,399 for the love that they gave you for 553 00:20:35,399 --> 00:20:37,799 the life that you have, even though it's 554 00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:38,539 not perfect. 555 00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:40,940 Do you see that as a reflection 556 00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:41,819 of 557 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,140 some of that cathartic work? 558 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:45,500 Yeah, absolutely. 559 00:20:46,634 --> 00:20:48,095 I have a lot of enthusiasm 560 00:20:48,795 --> 00:20:51,914 naturally in life, which has served me well. 561 00:20:51,914 --> 00:20:53,295 I'm a passionate person, 562 00:20:54,075 --> 00:20:55,615 but one of the challenges 563 00:20:56,154 --> 00:20:56,734 of being 564 00:20:57,035 --> 00:20:57,535 passionate 565 00:20:57,914 --> 00:20:59,615 is that it can flicker 566 00:21:00,075 --> 00:21:01,055 into rage 567 00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:05,990 and to love more wholly 568 00:21:06,609 --> 00:21:08,630 rather than to be like, 569 00:21:09,410 --> 00:21:10,309 so angry. 570 00:21:10,690 --> 00:21:13,490 It's part of like harnessing those patterns for 571 00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:14,950 good in a way. 572 00:21:15,384 --> 00:21:18,125 You know, that actually brings me to this 573 00:21:18,184 --> 00:21:20,684 song that you've written the resurrection game. 574 00:21:21,304 --> 00:21:23,625 I just wanna pull out something that really 575 00:21:23,625 --> 00:21:25,404 stood out to me in the lyrics, 576 00:21:26,505 --> 00:21:29,005 the eternal story we love 577 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:30,559 and we fail, 578 00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:32,400 breathing in fire 579 00:21:32,940 --> 00:21:34,079 and calling it 580 00:21:34,380 --> 00:21:34,880 air. 581 00:21:35,339 --> 00:21:38,380 Well, that whole song is it begins in 582 00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:38,880 Calistoga 583 00:21:39,259 --> 00:21:41,839 where the redwoods grow. I've come to excavate 584 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:42,720 your bones. 585 00:21:43,179 --> 00:21:44,079 So I guess 586 00:21:44,394 --> 00:21:45,934 what I realized 587 00:21:46,234 --> 00:21:48,575 when I was at Hoffman 588 00:21:49,035 --> 00:21:51,775 because my ego was going, 589 00:21:52,154 --> 00:21:52,974 you need to 590 00:21:53,515 --> 00:21:54,575 figure out your 591 00:21:55,035 --> 00:21:56,095 writer's block. 592 00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:58,850 You're repressed. You need to deal with this. 593 00:21:59,070 --> 00:22:01,170 And then I get to Hoffman, I'm like, 594 00:22:01,309 --> 00:22:03,330 oh, I have so many unreconciled 595 00:22:03,869 --> 00:22:06,509 issues with my father. This is why I'm 596 00:22:06,509 --> 00:22:08,850 here, I think, to do. 597 00:22:09,525 --> 00:22:11,365 And I think that the line, you know, 598 00:22:11,365 --> 00:22:13,785 coming to surrender to what was never there, 599 00:22:14,164 --> 00:22:15,465 it's really about 600 00:22:16,244 --> 00:22:18,184 loving someone for who they are 601 00:22:18,884 --> 00:22:22,325 rather than for who you want them to 602 00:22:22,325 --> 00:22:22,825 be. 603 00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:24,919 That gap, 604 00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:28,119 particularly if you have patterns of perfectionism, 605 00:22:28,819 --> 00:22:29,319 like, 606 00:22:30,019 --> 00:22:32,500 why aren't you like this? I need you 607 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:33,640 to be like this. 608 00:22:34,259 --> 00:22:34,759 No, 609 00:22:35,299 --> 00:22:37,779 he was his own soul on his own 610 00:22:37,779 --> 00:22:38,279 journey 611 00:22:38,644 --> 00:22:40,184 with his own patterns. 612 00:22:40,724 --> 00:22:42,264 So that's what that is about. 613 00:22:42,884 --> 00:22:44,804 You know, it's a really beautiful way of 614 00:22:44,804 --> 00:22:45,304 acknowledging 615 00:22:45,924 --> 00:22:49,044 the eternal story. Like this happens to humans. 616 00:22:49,044 --> 00:22:51,865 It happens ancestrally generation after generation. 617 00:22:52,609 --> 00:22:55,109 We love and we fail. You tried. 618 00:22:55,570 --> 00:22:58,710 You did your best and you hurt me 619 00:22:59,009 --> 00:23:02,049 at times by how you didn't meet me. 620 00:23:02,049 --> 00:23:04,529 And I still love you. And I still 621 00:23:04,529 --> 00:23:06,470 love you. And in doing that 622 00:23:06,964 --> 00:23:08,345 and in loving you 623 00:23:09,204 --> 00:23:10,585 and seeing that 624 00:23:11,445 --> 00:23:14,005 not as a failure, but just as the 625 00:23:14,005 --> 00:23:16,585 limits of who we are as human beings, 626 00:23:16,964 --> 00:23:18,105 then I can also 627 00:23:18,484 --> 00:23:19,305 love myself. 628 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,900 We all have moments where we wish 629 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,820 we'd been a better person 630 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,660 or a different person, 631 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,140 but that's part of what 632 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,619 growth is. It's going okay. 633 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,000 Well, I was just doing what I could 634 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:34,500 do 635 00:23:34,914 --> 00:23:36,755 with the tools that I had at my 636 00:23:36,755 --> 00:23:37,255 disposal 637 00:23:38,115 --> 00:23:38,934 at the time. 638 00:23:39,394 --> 00:23:41,414 Sounds like really embracing 639 00:23:42,434 --> 00:23:42,934 imperfection 640 00:23:44,355 --> 00:23:46,194 led you to a place of softening and 641 00:23:46,194 --> 00:23:46,694 forgiveness, 642 00:23:47,234 --> 00:23:48,454 maybe for yourself 643 00:23:48,755 --> 00:23:49,255 too. 644 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,259 Definitely for myself, 645 00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:52,539 everything became 646 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,720 easy is not the right word, because I 647 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:56,380 think in, 648 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,000 in some ways it's very difficult to be 649 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,019 a soft person in the world 650 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,700 can be really challenging. 651 00:24:03,694 --> 00:24:05,554 And we live in very intense 652 00:24:06,095 --> 00:24:06,595 times, 653 00:24:07,615 --> 00:24:10,575 but it definitely made it easier. I became 654 00:24:10,575 --> 00:24:11,634 a better friend. 655 00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:12,755 My friendships 656 00:24:13,295 --> 00:24:13,795 strengthened 657 00:24:14,654 --> 00:24:15,154 undoubtedly 658 00:24:16,174 --> 00:24:17,954 after the Hoffman process, 659 00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:19,190 my marriage 660 00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:21,029 improved exponentially 661 00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:23,349 after the process. 662 00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:25,649 You know, I should add there's that thing 663 00:24:25,649 --> 00:24:27,490 when you're at Hoffman where they're like, you 664 00:24:27,490 --> 00:24:30,210 don't have to go back and then try 665 00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:33,169 and convince everybody, you know, to also do 666 00:24:33,169 --> 00:24:33,669 Hoffman. 667 00:24:34,424 --> 00:24:36,664 I was totally that person. I was like, 668 00:24:36,664 --> 00:24:38,424 this will take too long. You should totally 669 00:24:38,424 --> 00:24:39,884 do it. All that enthusiasm. 670 00:24:40,664 --> 00:24:42,184 And then I, so I was sort of 671 00:24:42,184 --> 00:24:43,625 saying to my husband, I was like, you 672 00:24:43,625 --> 00:24:45,225 really need to go. And then he was 673 00:24:45,225 --> 00:24:47,545 supposed to go. And then the pandemic happened. 674 00:24:47,545 --> 00:24:50,349 And so he's never done it. I'd like 675 00:24:50,349 --> 00:24:51,950 for him to, but I think that it 676 00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:53,470 would have to be a course of his 677 00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:53,970 choosing 678 00:24:54,429 --> 00:24:57,149 rather than me saying, this is something you 679 00:24:57,149 --> 00:24:57,970 need to do. 680 00:24:58,269 --> 00:25:01,149 What you described about thinking you were coming 681 00:25:01,149 --> 00:25:04,005 for one reason and realizing there's 682 00:25:04,404 --> 00:25:04,904 so 683 00:25:05,285 --> 00:25:07,924 much more that I really am here to 684 00:25:07,924 --> 00:25:08,984 learn and gather. 685 00:25:09,285 --> 00:25:11,285 I think a lot of people have that 686 00:25:11,285 --> 00:25:13,765 experience and there is something about it being 687 00:25:13,765 --> 00:25:14,744 the right time 688 00:25:15,285 --> 00:25:17,305 for you to really be willing to see 689 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,339 all that's 690 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,920 there. An important part of my experience at 691 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:22,900 Hoffman is 692 00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:24,660 I'll go to Hoffman 693 00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:26,500 and then I'll be fixed 694 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,380 and everything will be hunky dory. 695 00:25:30,095 --> 00:25:32,335 And we all know that that's not really 696 00:25:32,335 --> 00:25:33,474 how life works. 697 00:25:34,095 --> 00:25:36,195 The work that I do in therapy now, 698 00:25:36,575 --> 00:25:38,894 it goes on a much deeper plan than 699 00:25:38,894 --> 00:25:40,654 I just think I would ever have been 700 00:25:40,654 --> 00:25:41,634 able to touch 701 00:25:42,095 --> 00:25:44,275 had I not gone to Hoffman, 702 00:25:44,980 --> 00:25:47,079 had I not been willing 703 00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:49,639 to do that process. 704 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:51,559 In a way, 705 00:25:52,179 --> 00:25:54,200 the Hoffman was like the beginning 706 00:25:54,579 --> 00:25:55,079 of 707 00:25:55,619 --> 00:25:56,679 the archaeological 708 00:25:57,139 --> 00:25:57,639 dig. 709 00:25:59,365 --> 00:26:01,684 It softened up the earth for me to 710 00:26:01,684 --> 00:26:03,464 be able to get in and go, alright, 711 00:26:03,605 --> 00:26:04,825 what's what's happening? 712 00:26:05,365 --> 00:26:06,585 There's an exterior 713 00:26:07,524 --> 00:26:08,664 shell or crust 714 00:26:09,044 --> 00:26:10,345 that could be protective, 715 00:26:10,884 --> 00:26:12,184 but also isolating. 716 00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:15,500 Absolutely. And you know, that song that I 717 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:17,660 wrote about the experience too, you know, it's 718 00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:19,820 called The Resurrection Game. And part of the 719 00:26:19,820 --> 00:26:22,460 reason for that is that I really did 720 00:26:22,460 --> 00:26:24,480 feel like I had a spiritual 721 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:26,400 emotional 722 00:26:27,535 --> 00:26:28,035 rebirth 723 00:26:28,575 --> 00:26:29,075 after 724 00:26:29,454 --> 00:26:31,714 taking part. And what was especially 725 00:26:32,174 --> 00:26:34,974 poetic about that for me was that Northern 726 00:26:34,974 --> 00:26:36,115 California looks 727 00:26:36,654 --> 00:26:38,894 like Sydney. It looks like Australia. It looks 728 00:26:38,894 --> 00:26:40,355 like where I was born. 729 00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:43,349 I was born in a place with tall 730 00:26:43,349 --> 00:26:43,849 eucalyptus 731 00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:47,929 trees and dry earth and near the sea. 732 00:26:48,309 --> 00:26:50,329 And then to go and have this experience 733 00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:53,750 in the place in America that looks the 734 00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:55,609 most like my home country. 735 00:26:56,194 --> 00:26:58,615 It was a really beautiful echo 736 00:26:59,154 --> 00:27:00,054 of my life. 737 00:27:00,674 --> 00:27:02,994 I know they do Hoffman in England and 738 00:27:02,994 --> 00:27:05,394 because my partner's English, had it come along 739 00:27:05,394 --> 00:27:07,075 at a different time, I might have been 740 00:27:07,075 --> 00:27:09,394 doing Hoffman in England. But the fact that 741 00:27:09,394 --> 00:27:11,575 I was doing it in Northern California, 742 00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:14,269 I think is quite an important 743 00:27:14,809 --> 00:27:15,309 geographical 744 00:27:15,609 --> 00:27:17,230 part of the journey too. 745 00:27:17,849 --> 00:27:18,589 It's beautiful 746 00:27:19,049 --> 00:27:20,269 healing work. 747 00:27:20,809 --> 00:27:23,049 It's so funny because I think even in 748 00:27:23,049 --> 00:27:26,250 the time since Hoffman, because my process was 749 00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:28,595 six years ago now, I feel like we're 750 00:27:28,734 --> 00:27:31,454 so much more online than ever. I feel 751 00:27:31,454 --> 00:27:33,795 like Hoffman is such an important 752 00:27:34,654 --> 00:27:35,154 opportunity 753 00:27:35,694 --> 00:27:37,075 for people to just 754 00:27:37,454 --> 00:27:38,194 get away 755 00:27:39,295 --> 00:27:40,035 from our 756 00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:41,259 devices 757 00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:42,940 and all of the noise, 758 00:27:43,639 --> 00:27:46,859 all the clutter and all of the distractibility 759 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:48,460 everywhere. 760 00:27:49,159 --> 00:27:50,460 Now I'm told 761 00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:53,720 attention spans are getting shorter and shorter and 762 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:54,220 shorter. 763 00:27:54,599 --> 00:27:55,899 And the whole thing 764 00:27:56,335 --> 00:27:58,835 about being at Hoffman is about paying attention 765 00:27:59,535 --> 00:28:01,555 and about paying attention to 766 00:28:02,015 --> 00:28:03,555 the people around you 767 00:28:04,174 --> 00:28:05,634 and doing this work 768 00:28:06,414 --> 00:28:06,914 together. 769 00:28:08,015 --> 00:28:10,115 Because that's another really important element 770 00:28:10,414 --> 00:28:10,914 too, 771 00:28:11,295 --> 00:28:11,795 that 772 00:28:12,569 --> 00:28:13,710 you're not alone 773 00:28:14,329 --> 00:28:15,230 in a room 774 00:28:16,089 --> 00:28:18,029 having some kind of interrogation 775 00:28:18,569 --> 00:28:21,450 process of like, so tell me about your 776 00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:24,329 childhood and why are you this way or 777 00:28:24,329 --> 00:28:25,470 anything like that. 778 00:28:25,849 --> 00:28:28,804 You're just in a room full of beautiful 779 00:28:28,865 --> 00:28:30,884 people who you've never met before, 780 00:28:31,664 --> 00:28:35,184 who all for their own personal reasons have 781 00:28:35,184 --> 00:28:36,325 decided that 782 00:28:36,784 --> 00:28:39,204 they want to expand. They want to grow. 783 00:28:39,504 --> 00:28:41,444 There's a lovely sense of community 784 00:28:41,984 --> 00:28:45,099 in that. What impact did that have on 785 00:28:45,099 --> 00:28:47,740 you being in that room full of other 786 00:28:47,740 --> 00:28:48,240 people? 787 00:28:48,859 --> 00:28:50,940 I think it was really good because it 788 00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:53,680 helps you let go of the sense that, 789 00:28:54,059 --> 00:28:55,980 oh, and this is why I'm this way, 790 00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:57,615 or you don't know what it's like to 791 00:28:57,615 --> 00:28:59,295 be me because I've had all of this. 792 00:28:59,295 --> 00:29:01,134 And it's like, he has just a room 793 00:29:01,134 --> 00:29:03,055 full of people that, yeah, we don't know 794 00:29:03,055 --> 00:29:04,994 what it's like to be anyone 795 00:29:05,375 --> 00:29:07,934 else, but we've all got parents. They've all 796 00:29:07,934 --> 00:29:09,234 brought past issues. 797 00:29:09,890 --> 00:29:10,950 It's a very human 798 00:29:11,650 --> 00:29:12,630 thing to do 799 00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:14,070 rather than feeling 800 00:29:14,529 --> 00:29:15,430 like very special. 801 00:29:16,210 --> 00:29:17,890 I knew that I didn't want to be 802 00:29:17,890 --> 00:29:19,350 attached to my narrative. 803 00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:22,390 I knew that I was doing an explorer 804 00:29:23,090 --> 00:29:23,590 quest 805 00:29:24,484 --> 00:29:24,984 wanderer. 806 00:29:25,684 --> 00:29:26,744 You know, my parents 807 00:29:27,205 --> 00:29:29,684 hadn't left Australia, so I was definitely doing 808 00:29:29,684 --> 00:29:30,184 that 809 00:29:30,644 --> 00:29:32,265 unlived life of the parent 810 00:29:32,725 --> 00:29:33,785 traveling thing. 811 00:29:34,244 --> 00:29:36,005 I think when I moved, I thought that 812 00:29:36,005 --> 00:29:38,250 that was like, yep, I'm gonna solve that 813 00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:39,930 problem. But then it's like, I just carried 814 00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:40,990 it all with me. 815 00:29:41,289 --> 00:29:44,090 Yeah. That's a really great description of sometimes 816 00:29:44,090 --> 00:29:47,450 we battle against or rebel against realize you 817 00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:49,210 actually are taking it with you as you 818 00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:50,670 do. And it sounds like 819 00:29:51,130 --> 00:29:51,710 a peace 820 00:29:52,144 --> 00:29:53,044 and a welcoming 821 00:29:53,345 --> 00:29:55,444 back of the good part and integration 822 00:29:56,224 --> 00:29:57,284 of that. 823 00:29:57,825 --> 00:29:59,845 Yeah, absolutely. And integration, 824 00:30:00,625 --> 00:30:02,085 the sense of relief, 825 00:30:03,024 --> 00:30:05,365 the joy that I feel in the world 826 00:30:05,789 --> 00:30:08,210 now, as well as the deep sadness 827 00:30:08,990 --> 00:30:11,009 that I feel sometimes too, 828 00:30:11,710 --> 00:30:13,570 everything came into full color 829 00:30:13,950 --> 00:30:15,009 after Hoffman. 830 00:30:15,470 --> 00:30:17,809 Everything felt a little bit brighter. 831 00:30:18,394 --> 00:30:19,934 I mean, there is that sense 832 00:30:20,394 --> 00:30:22,174 when you've been away from stimuli, 833 00:30:22,875 --> 00:30:24,794 work and obligation and all of that. And 834 00:30:24,794 --> 00:30:27,674 so you do come out of the process 835 00:30:27,674 --> 00:30:29,595 and feel like, oh my gosh, I'm a 836 00:30:29,595 --> 00:30:32,335 freshly hatched bird and everything is really intense. 837 00:30:33,860 --> 00:30:35,720 Like, I definitely felt that, but 838 00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:38,680 I no longer feel like a little chicken 839 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:40,660 the way that I did on that first 840 00:30:40,660 --> 00:30:43,080 Saturday or Sunday, whatever it was after Hoffman, 841 00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:46,019 but I got so much greater capacity for 842 00:30:46,019 --> 00:30:46,519 joy. 843 00:30:47,095 --> 00:30:50,315 I've got so much greater capacity for love. 844 00:30:51,815 --> 00:30:54,535 When I signed up, we had done an 845 00:30:54,535 --> 00:30:57,015 information call and you had said, do you 846 00:30:57,015 --> 00:30:59,335 think you need more joy? I wouldn't have 847 00:30:59,335 --> 00:30:59,835 said, 848 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:00,740 yes. 849 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,279 I think I would have been like, oh, 850 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,220 no. I'm pretty good. I think I'm fine. 851 00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:08,019 But I had this heart expansion. 852 00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:10,640 Yeah. I can't really explain it other than 853 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:11,539 that. Yeah. Everything 854 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,859 just feels a lot more 855 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:14,660 vivid. 856 00:31:15,115 --> 00:31:16,954 By the way, we'll put your song and 857 00:31:16,954 --> 00:31:18,654 all of this in the show notes 858 00:31:19,194 --> 00:31:22,234 because you've created something really beautiful. It sounds 859 00:31:22,234 --> 00:31:24,154 like some of that creative block has been 860 00:31:24,154 --> 00:31:26,015 removed. Plus you experienced 861 00:31:26,634 --> 00:31:28,794 other things you didn't know you came for 862 00:31:28,794 --> 00:31:29,774 showing up differently. 863 00:31:30,619 --> 00:31:32,720 Anything else you'd like to say about that? 864 00:31:33,259 --> 00:31:34,940 Sure. I mean, I think one of the 865 00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:36,880 things that I found really challenging, 866 00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:39,500 I'm in my early forties right now and, 867 00:31:39,820 --> 00:31:41,820 I never wanted to have kids and I 868 00:31:41,820 --> 00:31:43,765 still don't have kids. That's been a choice 869 00:31:43,765 --> 00:31:46,565 and I'm pretty happy with that choice. But 870 00:31:46,565 --> 00:31:47,625 when my friends 871 00:31:48,404 --> 00:31:49,785 started having kids, 872 00:31:50,484 --> 00:31:53,365 I went through this really negative pattern of 873 00:31:53,365 --> 00:31:55,305 just being like, I don't know, 874 00:31:55,684 --> 00:31:57,529 the boat has been rocked. I don't know 875 00:31:57,529 --> 00:31:59,630 how we're ever going to be friends anymore. 876 00:31:59,690 --> 00:32:01,069 And now I have 877 00:32:01,450 --> 00:32:03,690 all these beautiful young people in my life 878 00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:06,349 and so much happiness from that and 879 00:32:06,809 --> 00:32:07,789 so much tenderness 880 00:32:08,569 --> 00:32:11,335 pre Hoffman. I had gotten so out of 881 00:32:11,335 --> 00:32:13,734 step with my inner child through the course 882 00:32:13,734 --> 00:32:16,295 of my adolescence and adulthood and all of 883 00:32:16,295 --> 00:32:19,894 that. So in repairing some of the wounds 884 00:32:19,894 --> 00:32:21,115 with my inner child, 885 00:32:21,575 --> 00:32:23,974 that has made that aspect of my life 886 00:32:23,974 --> 00:32:24,954 easier too. 887 00:32:25,570 --> 00:32:27,570 I'm grateful. I just I want you to 888 00:32:27,570 --> 00:32:29,250 know that. Thank you for being willing to 889 00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:31,730 share yourself for what you're creating in the 890 00:32:31,730 --> 00:32:34,070 world and for being here for this conversation. 891 00:32:35,090 --> 00:32:37,809 Oh, thanks, Sadie. I'm grateful too. Yeah. I 892 00:32:37,809 --> 00:32:38,630 really can't 893 00:32:39,365 --> 00:32:39,865 speak 894 00:32:40,565 --> 00:32:41,065 more 895 00:32:41,684 --> 00:32:42,184 warmly 896 00:32:42,485 --> 00:32:42,985 about 897 00:32:44,965 --> 00:32:46,664 my entire Hoffman experience. 898 00:32:47,125 --> 00:32:48,265 I cannot imagine 899 00:32:49,045 --> 00:32:49,785 my life 900 00:32:50,244 --> 00:32:50,744 having 901 00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:52,640 not done it. 902 00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:54,000 I'm just so 903 00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:55,200 happy 904 00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:56,400 to have 905 00:32:57,180 --> 00:32:59,039 made that call. 906 00:32:59,660 --> 00:33:02,160 And also to have been drawn to it. 907 00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:04,240 What a really special place. 908 00:33:04,694 --> 00:33:07,674 Yeah. Well, let's wrap up with one 909 00:33:08,294 --> 00:33:11,494 surprising way you've seen yourself show up in 910 00:33:11,494 --> 00:33:12,154 the world 911 00:33:12,454 --> 00:33:15,494 or something where you've seen your light in 912 00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:17,095 the world around you that you were like, 913 00:33:17,095 --> 00:33:20,059 wow, I was not expecting that. Oh, gosh. 914 00:33:20,919 --> 00:33:24,839 Prior to Hoffman, I'd always kind of looked 915 00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:26,220 for things externally. 916 00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:28,619 That was very much part of my patterning 917 00:33:28,679 --> 00:33:30,919 too. And then when I left Hoffman, I 918 00:33:30,919 --> 00:33:33,099 could go, maybe I could work for myself. 919 00:33:33,644 --> 00:33:35,404 I never thought I would own a small 920 00:33:35,404 --> 00:33:37,325 business. Now I have a small business. I'm 921 00:33:37,325 --> 00:33:38,865 like, okay, this is quite 922 00:33:39,484 --> 00:33:39,984 odd. 923 00:33:40,445 --> 00:33:42,144 This does surprise me actually. 924 00:33:42,684 --> 00:33:45,404 If I go back and I slow down 925 00:33:45,404 --> 00:33:46,545 and I think about, 926 00:33:46,980 --> 00:33:47,480 say, 927 00:33:47,859 --> 00:33:50,579 25 year old me, as opposed to me 928 00:33:50,579 --> 00:33:51,960 who's 42 now, 929 00:33:52,259 --> 00:33:55,059 there's a part of me that used to 930 00:33:55,059 --> 00:33:56,759 always ask for permission. 931 00:33:57,380 --> 00:33:59,960 And I don't really have that anymore. 932 00:34:01,035 --> 00:34:03,615 I could see how not needing permission 933 00:34:04,394 --> 00:34:06,335 could really benefit you as 934 00:34:07,035 --> 00:34:08,335 someone who's creating 935 00:34:09,035 --> 00:34:09,775 in the world. 936 00:34:10,474 --> 00:34:10,974 Absolutely. 937 00:34:11,355 --> 00:34:12,574 It's really important. 938 00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:15,570 So much of being creative is about play. 939 00:34:16,030 --> 00:34:18,510 And even if you're writing about very adult 940 00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:19,010 things, 941 00:34:19,309 --> 00:34:22,510 it's about going back to a childlike sense 942 00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:23,170 of wonder 943 00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:26,110 and going, oh, I don't know what's gonna 944 00:34:26,110 --> 00:34:27,889 happen. Let's just see. 945 00:34:28,335 --> 00:34:30,514 Getting in that really direct dialogue 946 00:34:31,054 --> 00:34:33,954 of, okay, I'm gonna give myself permission 947 00:34:34,815 --> 00:34:36,034 to slow down 948 00:34:36,574 --> 00:34:37,074 enough 949 00:34:38,014 --> 00:34:39,394 to see what comes 950 00:34:39,775 --> 00:34:40,275 forth. 951 00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:44,980 The slowing down is also really important aspect 952 00:34:44,980 --> 00:34:45,880 of my process 953 00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:48,659 because I have a tendency to go, go, 954 00:34:48,659 --> 00:34:49,159 go 955 00:34:49,780 --> 00:34:52,599 and allowing others to take their time to, 956 00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:55,159 to not worry so much. 957 00:34:55,619 --> 00:34:56,119 Yeah. 958 00:34:57,204 --> 00:34:58,344 Thank you for 959 00:34:58,644 --> 00:35:01,045 taking the time. We're slowing down to be 960 00:35:01,045 --> 00:35:03,525 here with me for this conversation. I'm so 961 00:35:03,525 --> 00:35:06,565 happy that we could connect, and thank you. 962 00:35:06,565 --> 00:35:08,425 Thank you so much for having me. 963 00:35:15,969 --> 00:35:18,050 Thank you for listening to our podcast. My 964 00:35:18,050 --> 00:35:20,369 name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and 965 00:35:20,369 --> 00:35:22,469 president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. 966 00:35:22,974 --> 00:35:24,355 And I'm Rassen Grassi, 967 00:35:24,974 --> 00:35:27,954 Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute 968 00:35:28,014 --> 00:35:28,514 Foundation. 969 00:35:29,135 --> 00:35:32,014 Our mission is to provide people greater access 970 00:35:32,014 --> 00:35:34,414 to the wisdom and power of love. In 971 00:35:34,414 --> 00:35:36,989 themselves, in each other, and in the world. 972 00:35:37,230 --> 00:35:40,929 To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.