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I was so immersed in the experience of

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what I was doing, what I was called

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to do, asked to do by the teachers,

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that I scared myself. I was like, wow.

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So I popped out of it for a

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second because I was like, that's dark.

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That's scary.

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I touched this

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part, this base part of being human

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that I think caused me to recoil.

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Hello, and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a

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podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute.

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My name is Sadie Hanna, and in this

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podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with

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graduates

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about their courageous journey inward and how their

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love and light are living in the world

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around them. Love's everyday radius. Thank you for

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being here and welcome.

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Hey, everyone, and welcome. I'm Sadie Hanna. I'm

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a Hoffman process teacher, and I'm here with

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Drew Horning who is also a podcast host

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and a Hoffman process teacher. Welcome, Drew. Thank

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you. And who's psyched to be here with

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you for this conversation?

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Yes. And so we were just starting about,

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like,

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where do we begin? Your

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experience with the process

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has spanned many, many years. Mhmm. How many?

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I got trained in four

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fifteen,

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fourteen. So ten,

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eleven years.

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Yeah.

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So I came to know you first because

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you were teaching one of the programs that

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I did, like a graduate program before I

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became a teacher. Uh-huh. So I knew you

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first as a teacher. Yeah. And then I

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knew you as

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a colleague, but really more of a mentor

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when I was training to be a teacher,

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and now a colleague.

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But

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really as a friend, I've come to know

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you in a personal way. Yeah. And so

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this is an opportunity for our graduates and

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for those

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that may not know

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Drew, like, the real you in a personal

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way.

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Yeah. And you are just

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finishing a process. I'm heading into a process.

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Mhmm. And this is the space where Hoffman

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teachers, if they're not teaching together,

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experience what connection looks like in the

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thirty seconds between a hello and a goodbye.

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Ships in the night? Ships in the night.

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Yes. And coming in with, like, very different

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at least my incoming energy and then my

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outgoing energy is different.

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Friday brain. Mhmm. Post processed brain. Yeah.

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Also, my heart is so open

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after being with I bet. Through that. I

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bet, Sadie, you've just been with these students

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going through this experience,

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and they're probably still inside you right now.

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Yeah. So where would you like to be?

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And we can talk about

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your personal

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journey to the process if you wanna start

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with that. Sure. Let's do that. Yeah. Part

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of the reason I went

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was because,

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I'm in a men's group.

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And in the men's group, I shared some

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of the struggles that

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my wife and I were having as a

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married couple. We met, got married,

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had kids,

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all very quickly,

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very quickly. We were later in life, and

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when you know, you know. And I think

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we woke up probably

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four or five years into all of that,

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And we're like, wait a minute. I don't

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know if I like you. I don't know

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if I

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wanna be with you. I don't know what

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it means to be married. And so

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I was looking for help.

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And

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somebody in the men's group said, you know,

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one of my friends went through this thing

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called Hoffman.

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I don't know much about it, but you

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may wanna give it a try. I looked

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at it, checked it out, signed up, didn't

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talk to the enrollment office. It looks good.

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Got the time off

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and showed up here

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and probably had one of the best weeks

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of my life, one of the most profound

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experiences of my life.

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Raz Ingresi was my teacher,

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the founder of the Hoffman Institute,

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and the husband of Liza, who's our CEO

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and president.

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And he for me, he was the perfect

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teacher.

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The process was incredible. I mean, I could

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I don't know where to go. Yeah. Well,

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we'll go into your process, but there is

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something that you just said about Yeah. Leading

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into it Yeah. Which is that your relationship

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Yeah. Was the spotlight

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on something for you. And I think that's

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not an uncommon

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experience. Yeah. I agree. I agree. That tends

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to be the pain point that often gets

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expressed

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and why people come to the process is

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because

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the primary relationship is problematic. Sometimes it's parents.

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Sometimes it's friends. Sometimes it's work. Sometimes it's

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an overall sense

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of sadness, unwellness.

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Yeah. But many times, it's

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partnership.

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Yeah. Would you mind going in a little

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personal with this? Sure. Like, around

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Well,

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I'm just thinking about what happens in a

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relationship. Yeah. And it's like

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a real genuine desire for love and connection.

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Yeah. And when that's not met, how painful

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that is. Oh, yeah.

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How did you know that was hap like,

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what did you experience?

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Sadie, it's interesting. Like,

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it's it wasn't for a lack of trying.

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You know? It's not like one of us

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was bailing or one of us was like,

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I'm not doing this.

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It was like we were trying.

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We were trying to create connection. We were

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trying to understand each other. The stresses of

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kids,

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the stresses of early marriage.

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I think we were still getting to know

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each other.

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Like, as I look back now, I'm like,

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oh my god.

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I did it in 02/2013,

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so

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we had been married

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you know, I forget how many years at

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the time, but,

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yeah, patterns had been kind of woven in.

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And when you keep trying,

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when I when we kept trying

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and we kept kinda

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wearing

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the same groove

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towards a dead end of disconnection,

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we were

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trying to connect

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and, like all roads were leading to disconnection.

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Mhmm. Sometimes that was through fighting or yelling.

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I remember one time thinking, oh my god.

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I think our kids

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are traumatized

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by

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this one argument we had, and so that

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was a sobering

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moment.

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But, also, sometimes not an argument, just straight

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up disconnection.

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And it just felt like there was

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discouragement.

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You know? Like, this is not working.

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This is not good.

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And so I think we both felt that.

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And,

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that's what led me, like, I gotta

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I gotta do something. It was yeah. The

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the marriage needed help, but I also was

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losing my own agency

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and excitement. I was feeling kinda bummed out

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about it. So

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when I brought it up that day in

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group, I was

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wanting something for me to navigate

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it all much better. Yeah. So discouragement of

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we're trying getting more disconnected. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

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So you decided to go? Yeah. Signed up

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for the process. Raz is your teacher. Raz

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is my teacher. And take us to your

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process.

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Yeah. So,

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there's a moment

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where

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a teacher moves close to

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me in a ritual

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that was

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a very personal

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display of love

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from a teacher to a student.

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And

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I remember thinking,

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what the heck is going on here? It's

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like, wow. This is intimate. This is

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not traditional.

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And I think that I had that experience

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so many times. It was like, alright. This

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is different.

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This is an unusual.

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I mean, I was a therapist. Right? So

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I'd been a therapist in private practice for,

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at that point, like, almost fifteen years.

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And I remember thinking, we would you know,

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the therapeutic relationship and boundaries and all these

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important

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ways in which we hold

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therapist and patient dynamic,

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that was, like, blown away the first day.

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And

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through these displays

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of love and support and connection

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in just beautiful ways

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that, like, opened my heart and surprised me.

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And I'll say this, I was also, at

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the same time, Sadie,

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super inspired by,

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the formality of it and the ritual nature

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of it and the container.

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I remember at one point

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worrying that

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not worrying, but in the signing up to

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the process thinking, oh, is this gonna be

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like group therapy where because I had gone

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to workshops before where it's like we're listening

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to Sarah talk about her childhood for

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ad nauseam, and then

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the facilitator is feeling drawn because Sarah's vulnerable.

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And then Bobby jumps in and comments on

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Sarah

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and is like, you know, what what happened

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to the agenda of where we were going?

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Yeah. But

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that did not happen in the process, and

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it's held very powerfully.

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So I remember feeling relieved,

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safe,

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like these people have it. They're in charge.

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They're holding this container.

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That made me feel great.

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So a couple of things that you're saying

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are resonating. One is this experience of, like,

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I've tried the same things in my relationship

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Yeah. Feeling more disconnected. I know what I

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know about psychology

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and therapy Yeah. And

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then coming in, like, experiencing something totally

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different.

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And that's an interesting place to be because

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it's, like, maybe what you what might feel

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like stuck. What I hear a lot of

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students say is I felt like I was

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in this, like, stuck place before I came.

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Yeah. So when you came in, it was

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something totally new.

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How did you feel? Did you feel

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Great. You felt great. Loved it. Leaned into

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it. Yes. Loved it. Do you think that's

277
00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:31,450
an important part of the process?

278
00:10:31,910 --> 00:10:32,570
I do.

279
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:35,375
I mean but I think you you brought

280
00:10:35,375 --> 00:10:37,394
up a point which is interesting, which is

281
00:10:37,534 --> 00:10:38,514
I feel like

282
00:10:38,894 --> 00:10:41,315
the more I've taught, especially recently,

283
00:10:41,855 --> 00:10:44,894
it's not students' first rodeo. They've done therapy

284
00:10:44,894 --> 00:10:47,394
before. They've done some sort of coaching,

285
00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:50,350
and they've read maybe the books, and yet

286
00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:52,529
they haven't been able to create the change

287
00:10:52,909 --> 00:10:54,769
that they want. And so

288
00:10:55,230 --> 00:10:58,690
in my experience, people feel more disillusioned,

289
00:10:59,230 --> 00:11:00,209
more discouraged,

290
00:11:00,904 --> 00:11:01,725
more hopeless,

291
00:11:02,425 --> 00:11:03,804
when they come to the process

292
00:11:04,264 --> 00:11:06,825
because they've tried other things. Yeah. You agree

293
00:11:06,825 --> 00:11:08,925
with that? Yes. Yes. And

294
00:11:09,465 --> 00:11:11,804
what is the difference? Like, where does that

295
00:11:12,504 --> 00:11:14,825
knowing something and how it should be, but

296
00:11:14,825 --> 00:11:17,169
it's not working out that way Yeah. Turn

297
00:11:17,169 --> 00:11:17,669
into

298
00:11:18,049 --> 00:11:19,350
an actual change.

299
00:11:20,450 --> 00:11:22,210
So coming back to that experience where you

300
00:11:22,210 --> 00:11:23,830
where you said there's, like, this moment

301
00:11:24,370 --> 00:11:24,950
of closeness

302
00:11:25,330 --> 00:11:26,789
with the teacher. Yeah.

303
00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:29,835
I know this moment you're speaking about. Yeah.

304
00:11:29,995 --> 00:11:31,995
Because we do it every week. Mhmm. It's

305
00:11:31,995 --> 00:11:34,815
mostly silent. There's a few words. That's right.

306
00:11:35,355 --> 00:11:38,394
There's almost nothing said. So what's happening in

307
00:11:38,394 --> 00:11:40,075
that moment, or what happened for you in

308
00:11:40,075 --> 00:11:40,735
that moment?

309
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:46,980
Eye contact,

310
00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:49,379
intimacy,

311
00:11:50,879 --> 00:11:52,420
you know, to be seen,

312
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,660
to let yourself be seen,

313
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,700
to let yourself be held, to let myself

314
00:11:57,759 --> 00:11:58,500
be held.

315
00:11:58,804 --> 00:12:00,904
You know, as I think back, it's like

316
00:12:01,764 --> 00:12:02,664
there's a

317
00:12:03,444 --> 00:12:04,664
a human connection.

318
00:12:05,845 --> 00:12:07,625
There's nobody hiding behind

319
00:12:08,245 --> 00:12:08,904
a position,

320
00:12:10,004 --> 00:12:11,704
nobody hiding behind authority,

321
00:12:12,884 --> 00:12:13,784
not some

322
00:12:14,579 --> 00:12:15,079
separateness

323
00:12:15,539 --> 00:12:16,039
between

324
00:12:16,899 --> 00:12:19,220
teacher and student in that moment. There's a

325
00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:20,279
human to human

326
00:12:20,819 --> 00:12:21,319
connection,

327
00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:23,319
and it's like, man,

328
00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:26,519
that's gold. Mhmm. That was gold for me.

329
00:12:26,659 --> 00:12:28,440
You know, I'll just reference

330
00:12:28,985 --> 00:12:30,845
the teacher student relationship

331
00:12:31,464 --> 00:12:34,845
because it's really unique in the sense that

332
00:12:35,544 --> 00:12:37,884
if you added up the amount of time,

333
00:12:38,184 --> 00:12:40,684
teachers are one to one with their students,

334
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:43,129
it wouldn't be a high number. But those

335
00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:45,450
moments we are connected to our students and

336
00:12:45,450 --> 00:12:48,029
those moments I was connected to Raz

337
00:12:48,410 --> 00:12:49,309
were powerful.

338
00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:52,330
There was another moment heading into a in

339
00:12:52,330 --> 00:12:53,389
a morning check-in,

340
00:12:54,044 --> 00:12:55,825
heading into an experience

341
00:12:56,365 --> 00:12:58,225
where Raz looked at me again

342
00:12:58,684 --> 00:12:59,585
in the eye,

343
00:13:00,365 --> 00:13:02,225
paused for a second, and said,

344
00:13:02,764 --> 00:13:04,445
this is a big one you're about to

345
00:13:04,445 --> 00:13:05,184
head into.

346
00:13:05,725 --> 00:13:08,225
You can do this. You can do this,

347
00:13:08,899 --> 00:13:10,899
but you're gonna have to lean in. You

348
00:13:10,899 --> 00:13:13,160
know? And that kind of like challenge

349
00:13:13,940 --> 00:13:15,000
slash love,

350
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:17,860
I've been an athlete a lot in my

351
00:13:17,860 --> 00:13:21,399
life. So the avenue in which I experienced

352
00:13:22,334 --> 00:13:24,814
him relating to me was very much like

353
00:13:24,814 --> 00:13:25,314
coach,

354
00:13:25,774 --> 00:13:26,274
mentor,

355
00:13:27,214 --> 00:13:29,235
you know, somebody who's got my back.

356
00:13:29,694 --> 00:13:32,514
Yes. And I'm I'm heading into the game,

357
00:13:33,134 --> 00:13:34,754
and he'll see me at halftime,

358
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,779
greet me as I come off the field.

359
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,779
So he's seeing you,

360
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,200
and he's seeing something in you and saying

361
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,139
I believe in you. Yes.

362
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:47,060
Did you believe in yourself?

363
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,899
In that moment, yeah. Yeah.

364
00:13:51,414 --> 00:13:53,014
And I think at the end of the

365
00:13:53,014 --> 00:13:53,514
week,

366
00:13:53,975 --> 00:13:56,875
I got more belief in myself, more connection

367
00:13:57,174 --> 00:13:58,794
to myself, a more

368
00:13:59,495 --> 00:14:00,715
deeper, profound

369
00:14:01,335 --> 00:14:03,035
understanding of who I was.

370
00:14:03,879 --> 00:14:05,419
There was another moment

371
00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:06,699
that I referenced.

372
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:09,659
And later I would come to find out,

373
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:10,220
I

374
00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:12,940
don't know about for you, but for me,

375
00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:15,879
I was like, Was that Wednesday, Thursday? Wait,

376
00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:17,100
what day was that?

377
00:14:17,595 --> 00:14:19,754
What experience was that? I don't even know

378
00:14:19,754 --> 00:14:22,714
what the what the subject was about, what

379
00:14:22,714 --> 00:14:23,534
we were doing.

380
00:14:24,235 --> 00:14:26,174
You know, I got it all confused.

381
00:14:26,634 --> 00:14:28,495
And the timeline and the sequencing

382
00:14:29,115 --> 00:14:31,730
all wrong, I didn't even know. But over

383
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:34,230
the course of years of teaching,

384
00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:36,610
parts of my process have come back to

385
00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:38,549
me and I've been like, oh,

386
00:14:38,929 --> 00:14:41,889
that was this experience right now. Oh, that's

387
00:14:41,889 --> 00:14:45,105
right. So I've sort of slowly pieced my

388
00:14:45,105 --> 00:14:45,605
process

389
00:14:46,144 --> 00:14:47,524
back together again.

390
00:14:48,304 --> 00:14:50,245
And I don't think it's important to

391
00:14:50,865 --> 00:14:54,184
have it pieced together. Year. It doesn't Chronologically.

392
00:14:54,544 --> 00:14:55,684
Sequencing, chronologically,

393
00:14:56,144 --> 00:14:57,365
doesn't matter. But

394
00:14:57,669 --> 00:15:00,389
in hindsight, what I knew was this experience

395
00:15:00,389 --> 00:15:02,870
happened on Wednesday, and I was heading into

396
00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:04,649
an experience which addressed

397
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:07,830
the underbelly of being human, part of what

398
00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:09,049
it means to be vindictive.

399
00:15:10,144 --> 00:15:12,804
And this part of us that hates

400
00:15:13,345 --> 00:15:14,165
and judges

401
00:15:14,865 --> 00:15:16,404
and is mean spirited

402
00:15:17,345 --> 00:15:18,325
and critical

403
00:15:18,705 --> 00:15:20,325
to ourselves, to others.

404
00:15:21,264 --> 00:15:24,330
And the process goes into the light, but

405
00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:26,430
it also goes right at

406
00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:29,850
some of the harder things of being human.

407
00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:32,490
Yes. And they set the experience up. I

408
00:15:32,490 --> 00:15:33,389
had the experience.

409
00:15:34,090 --> 00:15:36,350
And I remember one moment

410
00:15:37,125 --> 00:15:38,184
in the cathartic,

411
00:15:38,565 --> 00:15:40,264
expressive nature of it

412
00:15:40,644 --> 00:15:41,144
where

413
00:15:41,925 --> 00:15:42,825
I lost,

414
00:15:43,684 --> 00:15:47,125
like, all sense of space and time, and

415
00:15:47,125 --> 00:15:48,585
I was so immersed

416
00:15:49,029 --> 00:15:51,429
in the experience of what I was doing,

417
00:15:51,429 --> 00:15:53,589
what I was called to do, asked to

418
00:15:53,589 --> 00:15:55,210
do by the teachers

419
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:58,009
that I scared myself.

420
00:15:58,549 --> 00:15:59,830
So I popped out of it for a

421
00:15:59,830 --> 00:16:02,894
second because I was like, that's dark. That's

422
00:16:03,034 --> 00:16:03,534
scary.

423
00:16:04,235 --> 00:16:06,095
And it like, I touched

424
00:16:07,194 --> 00:16:10,574
this part, this base part of being human

425
00:16:11,034 --> 00:16:13,214
that I think caused me to recoil.

426
00:16:14,549 --> 00:16:17,450
And then, again, this is the post process

427
00:16:17,669 --> 00:16:18,169
brain

428
00:16:18,549 --> 00:16:21,110
understanding what happened. So I can say it

429
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:22,490
to you now, but

430
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:26,330
for months and years, I didn't fully understand

431
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:27,289
what had happened.

432
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:28,970
But then next,

433
00:16:29,714 --> 00:16:32,615
as is the beautiful cycle of transformation,

434
00:16:33,394 --> 00:16:35,254
they led us into compassion.

435
00:16:35,714 --> 00:16:37,714
And one of the beautiful things I think

436
00:16:37,714 --> 00:16:39,254
of the process is music.

437
00:16:39,954 --> 00:16:41,714
And then there was a piece of music

438
00:16:41,714 --> 00:16:42,774
that came on.

439
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,680
After all of that cathartic work, this music

440
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,220
came on and,

441
00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:51,180
I just started bawling

442
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,740
and I couldn't stop.

443
00:16:54,279 --> 00:16:55,980
So it was like it was a

444
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,500
body cry

445
00:16:58,014 --> 00:16:59,074
of just sobbing.

446
00:16:59,695 --> 00:17:01,954
It wasn't like tears streaming down.

447
00:17:02,254 --> 00:17:03,074
It was

448
00:17:03,934 --> 00:17:05,394
like aching sobbing.

449
00:17:06,494 --> 00:17:07,474
My analyzing

450
00:17:07,855 --> 00:17:09,154
of it was

451
00:17:09,615 --> 00:17:10,115
later

452
00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:12,910
was that I was

453
00:17:14,089 --> 00:17:14,589
relieved

454
00:17:15,690 --> 00:17:16,190
and

455
00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:17,150
surrendering

456
00:17:18,410 --> 00:17:20,670
and held in love.

457
00:17:22,490 --> 00:17:25,095
Every time I hear it, I still go

458
00:17:25,095 --> 00:17:26,555
back to the body sensation

459
00:17:27,174 --> 00:17:30,454
of having that come on and tearing and

460
00:17:30,454 --> 00:17:30,954
crying

461
00:17:31,894 --> 00:17:34,375
because I was like, after all of that

462
00:17:34,375 --> 00:17:34,875
darkness,

463
00:17:35,894 --> 00:17:37,115
I'm still loved.

464
00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:38,960
I'm still okay.

465
00:17:39,339 --> 00:17:40,640
I'm still human.

466
00:17:41,099 --> 00:17:42,880
I can still be with myself.

467
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,519
There's still light there.

468
00:17:46,619 --> 00:17:47,119
Even

469
00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:50,779
minutes earlier, I'm at this darkest place of

470
00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:52,559
what I've been. And the

471
00:17:52,945 --> 00:17:54,884
whiplash nature of that

472
00:17:55,664 --> 00:17:58,484
is wild. And for me, those two experiences

473
00:17:58,705 --> 00:18:01,585
which engage the second and third part of

474
00:18:01,585 --> 00:18:02,644
the cycle of transformation,

475
00:18:03,184 --> 00:18:05,025
yeah, the first one is important. Yeah, the

476
00:18:05,025 --> 00:18:07,679
fourth one's important. But if you don't engage

477
00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:09,059
the second and the third,

478
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:11,700
the body and the heart

479
00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:12,819
expression

480
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:13,859
and compassion,

481
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,019
that's what makes it move.

482
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:17,460
I don't

483
00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:19,140
know if this is something

484
00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:20,099
that

485
00:18:20,605 --> 00:18:22,684
you would agree with or not. It's not

486
00:18:22,684 --> 00:18:23,984
something that I've necessarily

487
00:18:24,365 --> 00:18:27,005
heard from everyone else, but I do I

488
00:18:27,005 --> 00:18:28,924
think about the cycle of transformation. And for

489
00:18:28,924 --> 00:18:30,784
those who don't know, it's like a circle.

490
00:18:31,085 --> 00:18:32,924
Right? It starts with awareness and then it

491
00:18:32,924 --> 00:18:36,399
goes to expression Genius. Compassion, forgiveness Yeah. New

492
00:18:36,399 --> 00:18:38,159
ways of being and goes back to awareness.

493
00:18:38,159 --> 00:18:39,619
So it's like this circle.

494
00:18:40,399 --> 00:18:42,579
And somewhere in that circle, change

495
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,859
really happens.

496
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,259
And as I've really

497
00:18:46,974 --> 00:18:49,615
learned more and embodied the teachings more, it's

498
00:18:49,615 --> 00:18:51,075
like I think it's between

499
00:18:51,454 --> 00:18:51,954
expression

500
00:18:53,054 --> 00:18:53,954
and compassion.

501
00:18:54,815 --> 00:18:55,954
Like, that's truly

502
00:18:56,894 --> 00:18:59,075
this moment where it's like deepest,

503
00:18:59,454 --> 00:19:00,994
darkest, most primal,

504
00:19:01,669 --> 00:19:03,829
like fuck you. Yeah. Don't hurt me. Get

505
00:19:03,829 --> 00:19:06,390
away from me. Yeah. Like this really human

506
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:07,849
Yeah. Darkness

507
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:11,509
Yeah. Is transformed into love, into like this

508
00:19:11,509 --> 00:19:12,009
beautiful

509
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:16,045
love. And you can read any book. You

510
00:19:16,045 --> 00:19:18,125
can hear about it but until you have

511
00:19:18,125 --> 00:19:18,625
experienced

512
00:19:19,005 --> 00:19:19,505
that

513
00:19:19,805 --> 00:19:21,664
you don't really know. Yeah.

514
00:19:22,045 --> 00:19:24,144
You're speaking to the importance

515
00:19:24,525 --> 00:19:27,184
of embodied work, of cellular work,

516
00:19:27,565 --> 00:19:28,065
of

517
00:19:28,605 --> 00:19:29,105
expressive

518
00:19:29,404 --> 00:19:29,904
and

519
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:32,740
you know, engaging work where we're not just

520
00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:36,500
engaging our intellect and analyzing it all because

521
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:39,000
that's an epidemic. Analyzing problems

522
00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:41,480
is an epidemic. It's an addiction.

523
00:19:42,019 --> 00:19:43,960
We we do it ad nauseam.

524
00:19:44,404 --> 00:19:46,264
And I love the saying in the process,

525
00:19:46,325 --> 00:19:47,065
you can

526
00:19:47,764 --> 00:19:50,024
act yourself into a new way of thinking,

527
00:19:50,244 --> 00:19:52,024
but you cannot think yourself

528
00:19:52,404 --> 00:19:53,865
into a new way of acting.

529
00:19:54,244 --> 00:19:56,664
And it it doesn't stop us from trying.

530
00:19:57,125 --> 00:19:58,424
But for me,

531
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:01,779
the immersive nature of this work, the cellular

532
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,259
experiential nature of the work

533
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,039
is what makes it go, is what gives

534
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:07,779
its legs.

535
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,559
It makes it real. It makes it real.

536
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:13,279
For you. Yeah. Right? Because you were there

537
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:15,865
for that. The body keeps the score, Bessel

538
00:20:15,865 --> 00:20:18,605
van der Kolk's seminal work is

539
00:20:19,065 --> 00:20:22,265
important here because trauma, struggle lives in the

540
00:20:22,265 --> 00:20:24,924
body. But what's also lives in the body

541
00:20:25,065 --> 00:20:28,480
is our essence, our goodness, our light. And

542
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,819
so for me to have that experience

543
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,819
like that was a

544
00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:34,019
cellular

545
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,940
epiphany of sorts that was involuntary.

546
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,335
So touching into this

547
00:20:40,734 --> 00:20:44,294
darkness that scared you maybe, disoriented you Disoriented

548
00:20:44,294 --> 00:20:45,315
is a good word.

549
00:20:45,855 --> 00:20:47,154
And then this

550
00:20:47,934 --> 00:20:51,214
experience of love and light, it's just right

551
00:20:51,214 --> 00:20:53,934
there. Yeah. And then, like so much in

552
00:20:53,934 --> 00:20:54,595
the process,

553
00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:56,470
they have us go outside.

554
00:20:57,490 --> 00:20:59,350
I can remember all of this.

555
00:20:59,809 --> 00:21:01,410
I think this is what I tell students

556
00:21:01,410 --> 00:21:01,910
is

557
00:21:02,369 --> 00:21:04,690
like, grads, it's like you may forget some

558
00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:06,470
of the teachings, you may forget

559
00:21:07,009 --> 00:21:07,670
a lot,

560
00:21:07,984 --> 00:21:10,724
but your body will always remember experiences.

561
00:21:11,184 --> 00:21:14,404
Always. It's in you. It's in your cells.

562
00:21:14,865 --> 00:21:16,384
And so all you have to do is

563
00:21:16,384 --> 00:21:16,884
breathe

564
00:21:17,424 --> 00:21:19,585
and come home to the wisdom in your

565
00:21:19,585 --> 00:21:23,205
body, and those cellular memories of your experiences

566
00:21:23,789 --> 00:21:26,190
will be right there. And that's true for

567
00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:27,250
me. I can remember

568
00:21:27,869 --> 00:21:29,170
walking out of the classroom,

569
00:21:29,869 --> 00:21:31,809
you know, stepping into the sunlight.

570
00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:34,130
I can remember White Sulphur Springs.

571
00:21:34,830 --> 00:21:36,529
Like, it's all right there.

572
00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:39,009
It's all right there. Yeah.

573
00:21:39,765 --> 00:21:41,065
There's two things that

574
00:21:41,445 --> 00:21:44,965
I'm feeling into feeling into. One is, Dan

575
00:21:44,965 --> 00:21:47,924
Siegel talks about feeling felt. Yeah. And this

576
00:21:47,924 --> 00:21:49,785
experience of of love,

577
00:21:50,404 --> 00:21:51,705
we want to feel

578
00:21:52,085 --> 00:21:52,585
felt.

579
00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:55,559
And I think embodiment work is

580
00:21:55,859 --> 00:21:58,339
really an act of self love, right, of

581
00:21:58,339 --> 00:22:00,579
feeling yourself. And so the way you just

582
00:22:00,579 --> 00:22:03,140
described, I will not forget walking out into

583
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:05,380
the sun because I felt that. The way

584
00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:08,404
you describe that moment of looking into Raz's

585
00:22:08,464 --> 00:22:09,924
eyes and feeling

586
00:22:10,625 --> 00:22:11,125
seen.

587
00:22:11,664 --> 00:22:14,325
How does that now play out in your

588
00:22:14,784 --> 00:22:15,924
experience of connection

589
00:22:16,224 --> 00:22:17,044
post process?

590
00:22:18,144 --> 00:22:18,884
I remember,

591
00:22:20,065 --> 00:22:21,605
you know, taking the weekend,

592
00:22:22,269 --> 00:22:23,869
which I think, you know, we gotta give

593
00:22:23,869 --> 00:22:26,049
a shout out to the integration weekend here.

594
00:22:26,109 --> 00:22:27,650
Thank you, integration weekend.

595
00:22:28,269 --> 00:22:29,410
And may everybody

596
00:22:30,509 --> 00:22:32,769
take an integration weekend because

597
00:22:33,390 --> 00:22:35,490
the process moves so quickly.

598
00:22:35,994 --> 00:22:37,214
There's some fatigue.

599
00:22:37,914 --> 00:22:39,294
There's some confusion.

600
00:22:39,835 --> 00:22:41,994
Like I As I said, I couldn't piece

601
00:22:41,994 --> 00:22:44,174
together what happened when or

602
00:22:44,474 --> 00:22:46,554
why or what it all meant. I was

603
00:22:46,554 --> 00:22:48,910
beginning to have some understanding, but I think

604
00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:51,009
in life, we lead with our intellect,

605
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:53,710
and I think our body, our emotional self,

606
00:22:53,710 --> 00:22:56,509
and our spirit kinda tag along. And our

607
00:22:56,509 --> 00:22:59,070
intellect can act as an interpreter of sorts.

608
00:22:59,070 --> 00:22:59,570
Like,

609
00:23:00,029 --> 00:23:02,545
this is an experience. Yep. That's it. Spiritual

610
00:23:02,545 --> 00:23:03,825
self. This is, you know and so the

611
00:23:03,825 --> 00:23:06,065
intellect is like the gatekeeper to it all.

612
00:23:06,065 --> 00:23:08,785
In the process, that's reversed. Yeah. So the

613
00:23:08,785 --> 00:23:10,325
body leads first

614
00:23:10,705 --> 00:23:12,325
because there's so many experiences

615
00:23:12,945 --> 00:23:15,984
that engage our bodies. The emotional self is

616
00:23:15,984 --> 00:23:16,484
next.

617
00:23:16,859 --> 00:23:19,420
The spiritual self is right there, and then

618
00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:21,599
the intellect is, like, tagging along

619
00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:24,140
and being, like, okay. Trying to catch up.

620
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:25,200
I think I'm understanding.

621
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:26,319
Wait, everybody.

622
00:23:26,779 --> 00:23:28,539
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait for me. Mhmm.

623
00:23:28,539 --> 00:23:31,660
And it's a really beautifully humbling experience for

624
00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:32,319
the intellect

625
00:23:32,654 --> 00:23:33,795
to play cleanup,

626
00:23:34,335 --> 00:23:35,315
to tag along,

627
00:23:35,775 --> 00:23:37,875
to realize that these other three aspects

628
00:23:38,174 --> 00:23:40,115
are having incredible experiences

629
00:23:40,654 --> 00:23:42,275
that the intellect honestly

630
00:23:42,654 --> 00:23:46,015
doesn't know. It's like, woah. Woah. Woah. This

631
00:23:46,335 --> 00:23:48,115
you know, I think it's a little confused.

632
00:23:48,430 --> 00:23:49,410
It's a little overwhelmed.

633
00:23:49,950 --> 00:23:51,650
And so the integration weekend

634
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:52,930
is in part

635
00:23:53,309 --> 00:23:55,089
for the intellect to go,

636
00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:58,269
wow. Thank you guys for stopping and slowing

637
00:23:58,269 --> 00:24:00,349
down. Can you share a little bit with

638
00:24:00,349 --> 00:24:02,930
me what happened? And I think the intellect

639
00:24:03,595 --> 00:24:04,095
interviews

640
00:24:04,554 --> 00:24:05,774
the rest of the quadrinity

641
00:24:06,075 --> 00:24:07,615
on the integration weekend

642
00:24:07,994 --> 00:24:10,014
to sort of begin to piece together

643
00:24:10,315 --> 00:24:13,115
and make sense of this experience. Yes. What

644
00:24:13,115 --> 00:24:15,755
do you think? Absolutely. And it's actually bringing

645
00:24:15,755 --> 00:24:16,335
to mind

646
00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:18,909
part of the ceremony of integration. So the

647
00:24:18,909 --> 00:24:21,409
last day we have sort of an intentional

648
00:24:21,630 --> 00:24:23,329
experience around integrating

649
00:24:23,869 --> 00:24:24,929
and it's where

650
00:24:25,630 --> 00:24:28,769
the intellect gets to feel some emotional tenderness

651
00:24:28,909 --> 00:24:30,130
and where the emotional

652
00:24:31,384 --> 00:24:31,884
adult

653
00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:34,605
gets to have some sense of

654
00:24:35,384 --> 00:24:38,024
the structure that comes. So these they kind

655
00:24:38,024 --> 00:24:38,924
of come together

656
00:24:39,224 --> 00:24:41,464
in a way. Beautiful. Yeah. And I think

657
00:24:41,464 --> 00:24:44,424
you're right to reference the integration we've weekend

658
00:24:44,424 --> 00:24:46,044
and the ceremony of integration.

659
00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:48,359
You know, I was thinking about

660
00:24:48,819 --> 00:24:49,319
voice,

661
00:24:50,180 --> 00:24:52,579
Sadie, and, you know, the you and I

662
00:24:52,579 --> 00:24:55,460
are cohosts of the podcast and just the

663
00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:57,240
power of the human voice.

664
00:24:57,859 --> 00:24:59,160
And one of the reasons

665
00:24:59,755 --> 00:25:02,654
that experience was so powerful me for me

666
00:25:02,794 --> 00:25:03,775
around compassion

667
00:25:04,714 --> 00:25:05,214
was

668
00:25:05,835 --> 00:25:08,714
Ed's voice. And later, I realized it was

669
00:25:08,714 --> 00:25:10,414
Ed. But in a visualization

670
00:25:11,355 --> 00:25:12,815
where you're being guided

671
00:25:13,275 --> 00:25:14,815
through the human voice,

672
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,579
There's something that gets transmitted

673
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:18,940
in

674
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,779
the human voice

675
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,259
coming across those speakers

676
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:25,980
when I'm in the experience. And

677
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:27,339
just the texture

678
00:25:27,875 --> 00:25:30,455
of the human voice, I think, is fascinating.

679
00:25:31,315 --> 00:25:33,795
And only later, I would would realize, oh,

680
00:25:33,795 --> 00:25:36,195
that was Ed. It was Ed that led

681
00:25:36,195 --> 00:25:39,095
it. Oh my god. That is a beautiful

682
00:25:39,634 --> 00:25:40,134
visualization.

683
00:25:40,434 --> 00:25:42,295
He has a beautiful voice.

684
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,740
And, you know,

685
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:45,859
Chat GBT

686
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,500
is now more and more, I hear students

687
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:49,539
referencing

688
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,579
how they engage Chat GBT

689
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,819
to help them solve problems.

690
00:25:55,244 --> 00:25:57,325
And I get that it's helpful. Like, it's

691
00:25:57,325 --> 00:25:59,565
not a judgment on that, but I will

692
00:25:59,565 --> 00:26:02,684
say, how embodied is that? You know, we

693
00:26:02,684 --> 00:26:04,384
talk about awareness hell

694
00:26:04,684 --> 00:26:05,505
in the process

695
00:26:05,884 --> 00:26:06,865
for a reason.

696
00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:08,029
Because students

697
00:26:08,410 --> 00:26:09,390
have information.

698
00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:12,830
Chat GBT is just more information.

699
00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:15,309
The lack of information

700
00:26:15,930 --> 00:26:17,309
is not the problem.

701
00:26:17,850 --> 00:26:19,150
We have enough information.

702
00:26:19,769 --> 00:26:20,910
We need to integrate,

703
00:26:21,369 --> 00:26:21,869
engage,

704
00:26:22,795 --> 00:26:24,095
wrestle with that information.

705
00:26:24,955 --> 00:26:26,015
So you were mentioning

706
00:26:26,634 --> 00:26:27,134
realizing

707
00:26:27,595 --> 00:26:28,095
that

708
00:26:29,035 --> 00:26:30,015
Ed's voice

709
00:26:30,795 --> 00:26:33,035
stayed with you in like a resonant way.

710
00:26:33,035 --> 00:26:33,535
Yes.

711
00:26:33,914 --> 00:26:35,855
And it has me considering

712
00:26:36,234 --> 00:26:36,734
voice

713
00:26:37,349 --> 00:26:39,829
and how people tend to talk or or

714
00:26:39,829 --> 00:26:41,369
want to talk talk talk

715
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:43,990
talk about things talk about things rather than

716
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:46,410
actually moving into a place of either experience

717
00:26:47,349 --> 00:26:47,849
or

718
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:49,450
feeling,

719
00:26:50,934 --> 00:26:53,195
connect like being in their body. Right?

720
00:26:53,654 --> 00:26:54,154
So

721
00:26:54,855 --> 00:26:57,434
is there a difference between hearing a voice

722
00:26:58,375 --> 00:27:00,234
and feeling a voice?

723
00:27:00,535 --> 00:27:01,275
Like hearing

724
00:27:01,815 --> 00:27:02,955
someone's voice

725
00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:04,619
versus feeling.

726
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:07,079
Well, I think when you say that, one

727
00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:08,140
of the things that

728
00:27:08,679 --> 00:27:10,920
comes to mind is part of the reason

729
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:11,819
we use microphones

730
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,179
is because

731
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,359
if I'm speaking to a room of 40

732
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,740
people without a microphone,

733
00:27:18,384 --> 00:27:19,125
I have

734
00:27:19,825 --> 00:27:22,565
to enunciate and speak up and out.

735
00:27:23,105 --> 00:27:24,325
And in that,

736
00:27:24,625 --> 00:27:27,585
there's a loss of the texture. Whereas if

737
00:27:27,585 --> 00:27:30,164
I have a microphone, I'm mic'd up,

738
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:31,059
I

739
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,440
can share and speak in a way that

740
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,259
is softer,

741
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,819
tender, more complex.

742
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:39,359
That certainly was the case for me as

743
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,019
a student

744
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,660
where it was like, okay. This voice,

745
00:27:43,075 --> 00:27:46,115
I will follow it. I will surrender to

746
00:27:46,115 --> 00:27:49,315
it. There is love in it. There is

747
00:27:49,315 --> 00:27:49,815
kindness.

748
00:27:50,595 --> 00:27:51,335
There is

749
00:27:51,955 --> 00:27:52,455
strength.

750
00:27:53,475 --> 00:27:54,615
There is trust.

751
00:27:54,914 --> 00:27:57,894
Mhmm. And all of that in the voice

752
00:27:58,769 --> 00:28:00,390
was like, I'm yours. I

753
00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:01,670
am yours.

754
00:28:02,450 --> 00:28:03,670
Can I tell you something?

755
00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:06,710
It's actually not so different than

756
00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:09,509
the voice we came to know

757
00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:12,950
when we're in our mother's Wow. Womb. Beautiful.

758
00:28:13,090 --> 00:28:15,515
Right? Here in no idea the concept of

759
00:28:15,515 --> 00:28:18,174
the words. The intellect is not there,

760
00:28:18,795 --> 00:28:22,154
but feeling that resonance of voice. Nice pickup,

761
00:28:22,154 --> 00:28:24,734
Sadie. Nice pickup. Absolutely. Like,

762
00:28:25,195 --> 00:28:26,974
the baby in the womb

763
00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:30,690
hears mama's voice, hears voices.

764
00:28:31,070 --> 00:28:31,570
Mhmm.

765
00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:32,930
And, of course,

766
00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:35,890
the baby is hearing those and

767
00:28:36,349 --> 00:28:39,644
digesting those and being with those. So it's

768
00:28:39,644 --> 00:28:41,984
calling back to that early experience.

769
00:28:42,445 --> 00:28:42,945
Nice.

770
00:28:43,404 --> 00:28:44,945
So eyes closed

771
00:28:45,484 --> 00:28:47,505
through some of this experience maybe

772
00:28:48,605 --> 00:28:51,085
lets us not over rely on what's happening

773
00:28:51,085 --> 00:28:53,619
outside. Well, I mean, I think there's research

774
00:28:53,619 --> 00:28:56,679
around this. We are visual creatures. Other creatures

775
00:28:56,819 --> 00:28:59,220
are smelt. Like my dog, when it gets

776
00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,059
in the car, it either wants to put

777
00:29:01,059 --> 00:29:02,900
its nose out the window or in the

778
00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:03,400
vent.

779
00:29:04,259 --> 00:29:05,779
It doesn't wanna look out the window. It

780
00:29:05,779 --> 00:29:07,445
wants to put his nose in the vent

781
00:29:07,445 --> 00:29:10,644
or its nose outside. Mhmm. We're visual creatures.

782
00:29:10,644 --> 00:29:12,644
Our brain is wired for us to see.

783
00:29:12,644 --> 00:29:15,365
Even though Paul Gauguin, the artist, said, I

784
00:29:15,365 --> 00:29:16,424
close my eyes

785
00:29:16,884 --> 00:29:18,345
so that I may see.

786
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:21,529
And I think it's an important piece to

787
00:29:21,829 --> 00:29:23,049
close our eyes

788
00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:25,130
to stop trying to

789
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:28,630
visually see and instead to be with the

790
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:32,089
experience inside of us. The experience of feeling

791
00:29:32,914 --> 00:29:33,414
seen,

792
00:29:34,034 --> 00:29:36,615
the experience of feeling the voice,

793
00:29:37,075 --> 00:29:38,375
and we spoke about

794
00:29:38,755 --> 00:29:39,255
connection.

795
00:29:39,794 --> 00:29:42,034
You were gonna share post process. How did

796
00:29:42,034 --> 00:29:44,615
your experience of connection change? Oh, right. Yeah.

797
00:29:44,755 --> 00:29:45,255
So,

798
00:29:46,619 --> 00:29:49,599
there's something that we teach in the process

799
00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:53,200
that I brought to my kids around connection.

800
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:54,640
A practice

801
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:56,319
I brought to my wife

802
00:29:57,019 --> 00:29:59,599
is just a beautiful form of presence

803
00:30:00,174 --> 00:30:02,575
that I didn't know anything about, and my

804
00:30:02,575 --> 00:30:04,894
kids liked it. It was a little awkward

805
00:30:04,894 --> 00:30:07,134
at times, but, you know, it's a beautiful

806
00:30:07,134 --> 00:30:09,295
practice of presence. Yeah. Like, what does it

807
00:30:09,295 --> 00:30:11,855
mean to be present Mhmm. With ourselves, with

808
00:30:11,855 --> 00:30:12,355
others?

809
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:15,320
Well, Hoffman has a couple rituals, couple practices

810
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,200
that you can engage in post process. And

811
00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:20,039
so those have been a part of

812
00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:21,160
our lives

813
00:30:21,619 --> 00:30:25,080
post process. But, you know, it wasn't perfect.

814
00:30:25,294 --> 00:30:28,174
It was still bumpy. But I, you know,

815
00:30:28,174 --> 00:30:30,994
I remember Liza the last day said,

816
00:30:31,615 --> 00:30:33,794
this will grow inside you.

817
00:30:34,095 --> 00:30:36,255
And I just remember those words. And I

818
00:30:36,255 --> 00:30:38,894
remember wanting to believe them, not knowing if

819
00:30:38,894 --> 00:30:42,250
I could believe them. And now years later,

820
00:30:42,250 --> 00:30:43,869
it's like, wow. Absolutely.

821
00:30:44,490 --> 00:30:46,269
This has grown inside me.

822
00:30:46,889 --> 00:30:48,029
And I'm so grateful

823
00:30:48,409 --> 00:30:50,429
that the process has been

824
00:30:50,970 --> 00:30:51,789
the stalwart,

825
00:30:52,089 --> 00:30:52,909
the steadfast

826
00:30:53,210 --> 00:30:55,345
presence in my life, not just as a

827
00:30:55,345 --> 00:30:56,724
teacher, but as a student

828
00:30:57,105 --> 00:30:59,204
engaging in the practices, doing

829
00:30:59,744 --> 00:31:00,244
recycling

830
00:31:00,625 --> 00:31:01,125
to,

831
00:31:01,585 --> 00:31:03,204
have it be a part of our family,

832
00:31:03,265 --> 00:31:05,605
our marriage, and to give me the resiliency

833
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:10,170
to yes. Problems still happen. Struggles still happen.

834
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:12,470
But I have the ability to bounce back

835
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:14,869
a little quicker, to be kinder to myself.

836
00:31:14,869 --> 00:31:16,630
I mean, it is one of the things

837
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:18,470
that I was blown away by and I

838
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:20,089
continue to share with students,

839
00:31:20,404 --> 00:31:21,304
which is this,

840
00:31:21,605 --> 00:31:24,024
surprising power of self compassion.

841
00:31:24,644 --> 00:31:27,224
And Dan Siegel calls it inner compassion.

842
00:31:27,684 --> 00:31:30,085
I love that we've referenced him twice. Mhmm.

843
00:31:30,085 --> 00:31:32,884
He's got a great podcast episode. Mhmm. And

844
00:31:32,884 --> 00:31:35,730
he's a proud grad of the process, this

845
00:31:35,730 --> 00:31:36,230
neuroscientist.

846
00:31:37,329 --> 00:31:39,169
I think we have been sold a bill

847
00:31:39,169 --> 00:31:40,389
of goods. We've been

848
00:31:40,849 --> 00:31:41,990
lied to essentially,

849
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:45,569
which is the lie we've all maybe tried

850
00:31:45,569 --> 00:31:48,149
to believe that doesn't work, which is that

851
00:31:48,615 --> 00:31:50,555
if you're struggling in your life,

852
00:31:51,255 --> 00:31:52,714
what you need to do is

853
00:31:53,015 --> 00:31:54,795
grin and bear it and

854
00:31:55,414 --> 00:31:58,234
go after, dislike the part of you that

855
00:31:58,454 --> 00:31:59,194
is struggling.

856
00:32:00,055 --> 00:32:02,375
Almost like jettison the part of you that

857
00:32:02,375 --> 00:32:03,269
you don't like.

858
00:32:03,670 --> 00:32:06,970
Judge it, critique it, find fault with it.

859
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:08,730
And that is so habituated

860
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:11,849
in the students I see. Like self loathing

861
00:32:12,309 --> 00:32:14,009
as almost a way of being

862
00:32:14,309 --> 00:32:17,190
is natural. It's in the water we swim

863
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:20,214
in. And to tell those people

864
00:32:20,914 --> 00:32:22,355
that, oh, all you have to do is

865
00:32:22,355 --> 00:32:23,575
be kinder to yourself.

866
00:32:23,954 --> 00:32:26,115
People look at you, you know, like, you

867
00:32:26,115 --> 00:32:27,734
gotta be kidding me.

868
00:32:28,115 --> 00:32:31,075
That's the way forward, to be kinder to

869
00:32:31,075 --> 00:32:33,414
myself. It's like, yeah. Yeah.

870
00:32:33,849 --> 00:32:34,750
Practice compassion.

871
00:32:35,609 --> 00:32:36,750
Be kind to yourself.

872
00:32:37,129 --> 00:32:40,589
Hold loving space for yourself. See your humanity.

873
00:32:41,529 --> 00:32:42,750
Practice your humanity

874
00:32:43,129 --> 00:32:43,950
and watch.

875
00:32:44,409 --> 00:32:45,950
Watch. Be surprised.

876
00:32:46,774 --> 00:32:48,934
Yes. In some ways, it's like, you know,

877
00:32:48,934 --> 00:32:50,154
where you might say

878
00:32:51,095 --> 00:32:53,434
self love is something that I have,

879
00:32:53,974 --> 00:32:55,755
but at your worst,

880
00:32:56,375 --> 00:32:58,774
when you feel you're the least deserving of

881
00:32:58,774 --> 00:33:00,789
it to be kind to yourself. I think

882
00:33:00,789 --> 00:33:02,070
you bring up a good point because a

883
00:33:02,070 --> 00:33:04,390
lot of people think, oh, well, I'm not

884
00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:06,869
feeling loving towards myself. That's why I don't

885
00:33:06,869 --> 00:33:09,529
do the practices. It's like, well, no.

886
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:12,890
Even when you feel worst about yourself

887
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:15,130
and when you have all the evidence

888
00:33:15,984 --> 00:33:18,325
for why you should feel bad about yourself.

889
00:33:18,625 --> 00:33:19,924
It's in those moment

890
00:33:20,304 --> 00:33:22,005
that we need to be kind to ourselves.

891
00:33:22,625 --> 00:33:23,684
I mean, it's actually

892
00:33:24,544 --> 00:33:26,544
a bigger version of what you described in

893
00:33:26,544 --> 00:33:29,365
in that cathartic expression of like the deepest

894
00:33:29,424 --> 00:33:31,204
dark and then here's love.

895
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:33,700
And to bring those two side by side

896
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:35,960
in a day to day Watch out. Practice.

897
00:33:36,019 --> 00:33:37,960
Watch out. Yeah. Incredible.

898
00:33:38,740 --> 00:33:40,119
Incredible. Not easy.

899
00:33:40,660 --> 00:33:42,660
Confusing. I mean, I think it speaks to

900
00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:43,240
the paradox.

901
00:33:43,539 --> 00:33:46,845
Like, Carl Jung talks about the importance of

902
00:33:46,845 --> 00:33:47,345
paradox

903
00:33:47,884 --> 00:33:50,284
as human beings. And I think he's on

904
00:33:50,284 --> 00:33:52,765
to something when it comes to light and

905
00:33:52,765 --> 00:33:53,265
dark,

906
00:33:53,724 --> 00:33:55,105
spirit and patterns.

907
00:33:55,484 --> 00:33:55,984
Yes.

908
00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:58,559
This might be a nice segue into

909
00:33:58,859 --> 00:34:00,940
what let's talk a little bit about what

910
00:34:00,940 --> 00:34:03,179
we love about the process. Can we do

911
00:34:03,179 --> 00:34:04,619
that? Yeah. We've done a little bit about

912
00:34:04,619 --> 00:34:07,259
the experiential nature of it, the cycle of

913
00:34:07,259 --> 00:34:07,759
transformation.

914
00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:10,380
Mhmm. What do you love about it? Self

915
00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:13,724
compassion we've spoken about. So what we're alluding

916
00:34:13,724 --> 00:34:14,464
to now

917
00:34:14,764 --> 00:34:15,744
and I think

918
00:34:16,284 --> 00:34:18,204
what really hit home for me this week

919
00:34:18,204 --> 00:34:20,784
in teaching Having just taught. Yes,

920
00:34:21,085 --> 00:34:21,905
is how

921
00:34:22,525 --> 00:34:23,264
the process

922
00:34:24,204 --> 00:34:25,344
really holds

923
00:34:25,644 --> 00:34:26,385
you are

924
00:34:26,859 --> 00:34:28,639
powerful and divine

925
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:30,639
and wise and

926
00:34:31,260 --> 00:34:34,800
the light itself within you. You are divine

927
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:36,880
and you're also human.

928
00:34:37,420 --> 00:34:40,300
This idea of left road right road, left

929
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:41,920
road being patterns and

930
00:34:42,324 --> 00:34:43,785
right road being authentic,

931
00:34:44,565 --> 00:34:47,204
and you can't stay always on the right

932
00:34:47,204 --> 00:34:48,585
road. No one can

933
00:34:49,125 --> 00:34:50,105
because you're

934
00:34:50,644 --> 00:34:51,465
a spirit,

935
00:34:52,005 --> 00:34:53,704
but you're also a human.

936
00:34:54,670 --> 00:34:57,230
It's truly spirit embodied. I think that's the

937
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:59,250
essence of what I really love about it.

938
00:34:59,550 --> 00:35:02,130
You get to be both amazing and human,

939
00:35:02,190 --> 00:35:02,690
unskilled.

940
00:35:02,989 --> 00:35:05,150
You can embarrass yourself at times. You're still

941
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:07,949
worthy of love. Yeah. Yeah. I I love

942
00:35:07,949 --> 00:35:10,369
that, Sadie. I love that. We're a 100%

943
00:35:10,905 --> 00:35:13,324
divine and a 100% human. Human.

944
00:35:13,945 --> 00:35:16,204
And it's in that shared

945
00:35:17,625 --> 00:35:18,125
common

946
00:35:18,985 --> 00:35:21,625
connection between the two of those that real

947
00:35:21,625 --> 00:35:22,605
magic happens.

948
00:35:23,230 --> 00:35:24,449
Yeah, I love that.

949
00:35:24,750 --> 00:35:26,590
You know, someone asked me the other day,

950
00:35:26,590 --> 00:35:28,289
like, do you ever get tired of teaching?

951
00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:30,130
I think I'm coming up on

952
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:31,570
90 processes

953
00:35:32,269 --> 00:35:33,170
having taught

954
00:35:33,550 --> 00:35:35,710
and here's what I would say is hell

955
00:35:35,710 --> 00:35:36,210
no,

956
00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:37,410
hell no.

957
00:35:37,724 --> 00:35:40,144
Two reasons. One is humans are

958
00:35:40,845 --> 00:35:42,704
fascinating. Yes. It's the same process,

959
00:35:43,005 --> 00:35:45,644
but it's a different group of people. Wouldn't

960
00:35:45,644 --> 00:35:47,985
you agree? Like, classes have energies.

961
00:35:48,525 --> 00:35:51,425
So sometimes there's this kind of group identity,

962
00:35:52,045 --> 00:35:52,785
but also

963
00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:55,460
each of your students is different.

964
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,019
And so, yeah, there's some common themes,

965
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,199
but their stories, their the where they came

966
00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:03,460
from, where they're headed, what they're working with

967
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:06,640
is often different. And so I think humans

968
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,340
are amazing. They're fascinating.

969
00:36:09,174 --> 00:36:11,835
And I've come to really love and appreciate

970
00:36:12,214 --> 00:36:13,815
what it means to be human. I was

971
00:36:13,815 --> 00:36:15,034
thinking about taglines

972
00:36:15,815 --> 00:36:18,315
and how the process's tagline is,

973
00:36:18,855 --> 00:36:21,914
Hoffman process, when you're serious about change.

974
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:23,920
And I think that's great because a lot

975
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,239
of students reference that when they come and

976
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,880
they realize, okay. I need it now. I

977
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,400
mean, me having just now step stepping into

978
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,900
a process, having just had eight precalls,

979
00:36:35,994 --> 00:36:38,494
I'm totally inspired by the precalls.

980
00:36:39,034 --> 00:36:40,574
Like, I'm thinking to myself,

981
00:36:40,954 --> 00:36:44,414
these students are so ready. They're so committed.

982
00:36:44,795 --> 00:36:46,474
They spent a lot of time on their

983
00:36:46,474 --> 00:36:47,369
paperwork. Like,

984
00:36:47,930 --> 00:36:49,690
they are gonna have I can just predict

985
00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:50,829
they're gonna have amazing

986
00:36:51,289 --> 00:36:51,789
weeks

987
00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:55,070
in part because they're serious about change.

988
00:36:55,530 --> 00:36:56,970
But I would say this, one of the

989
00:36:56,970 --> 00:36:58,809
other taglines that could be and I know

990
00:36:58,809 --> 00:37:00,844
we've talked in the past about

991
00:37:01,144 --> 00:37:03,304
what one word would you call the process,

992
00:37:03,304 --> 00:37:05,704
and we posted a bunch of stuff. But

993
00:37:05,704 --> 00:37:06,364
I have

994
00:37:06,824 --> 00:37:08,925
a couple phrases, and one would be

995
00:37:09,224 --> 00:37:11,945
the Hoffman process, what it means to be

996
00:37:11,945 --> 00:37:12,445
human.

997
00:37:12,829 --> 00:37:14,989
And it's like I love how you looked

998
00:37:14,989 --> 00:37:16,510
at the I know. Awesome. What it means.

999
00:37:16,510 --> 00:37:18,750
Maybe that'll get on Instagram, what it means

1000
00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:21,090
to be human. I mean, honestly, I think

1001
00:37:21,309 --> 00:37:23,969
we're born into this body, into this being.

1002
00:37:24,110 --> 00:37:26,269
We step out into the world. And I

1003
00:37:26,269 --> 00:37:27,730
think part of the tragedy,

1004
00:37:28,485 --> 00:37:29,465
part of the heartbreak

1005
00:37:29,925 --> 00:37:32,265
is that we're not fully sure

1006
00:37:32,805 --> 00:37:34,965
what it means to be human. And so

1007
00:37:34,965 --> 00:37:36,105
when our humanity

1008
00:37:36,485 --> 00:37:39,385
shows up, because it inevitably will,

1009
00:37:39,845 --> 00:37:42,485
we judge it. We critique it. We try

1010
00:37:42,485 --> 00:37:45,480
and shun it. And so if we only

1011
00:37:45,619 --> 00:37:46,119
understood

1012
00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:49,640
what it actually means to be human,

1013
00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:52,039
we would treat our humanity

1014
00:37:52,420 --> 00:37:52,920
differently.

1015
00:37:53,619 --> 00:37:54,760
And so the process

1016
00:37:55,059 --> 00:37:56,039
is a discovery

1017
00:37:57,105 --> 00:37:59,184
of nothing else than what it means to

1018
00:37:59,184 --> 00:37:59,844
be human.

1019
00:38:00,304 --> 00:38:02,144
What it means to be human and the

1020
00:38:02,144 --> 00:38:04,385
part of being human that you've tried so

1021
00:38:04,385 --> 00:38:07,025
hard to not feel or not know to

1022
00:38:07,025 --> 00:38:09,125
the point that it could even disorient

1023
00:38:09,425 --> 00:38:09,925
you.

1024
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,579
Disorient's a good word. Yeah.

1025
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:13,539
And

1026
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,260
so it's like to be not special

1027
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,680
and to be so special. That's right. Another

1028
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,400
paradox of the process. By it. Yes. Yeah.

1029
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,980
You are special. Mhmm. You are divine.

1030
00:38:25,505 --> 00:38:26,405
You are unique.

1031
00:38:26,864 --> 00:38:28,804
You are worthy. You belong.

1032
00:38:29,585 --> 00:38:30,485
Mhmm. Like, cellularly,

1033
00:38:30,785 --> 00:38:33,045
these are felt senses. And

1034
00:38:33,505 --> 00:38:34,324
you're human,

1035
00:38:35,025 --> 00:38:36,565
and you're not that special.

1036
00:38:36,945 --> 00:38:39,425
So all of what you're struggling with is

1037
00:38:39,425 --> 00:38:40,405
not that unique.

1038
00:38:41,099 --> 00:38:43,039
People tend to come to the process

1039
00:38:43,420 --> 00:38:44,880
thinking they're u f

1040
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:48,300
u, uniquely fucked up. Mhmm. And they're not.

1041
00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:50,059
You know, they may have a unique story,

1042
00:38:50,059 --> 00:38:52,700
but their struggle is part of what it

1043
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:53,760
means to be human.

1044
00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:56,320
They're just trying to make it abnormal

1045
00:38:56,755 --> 00:38:57,494
when in

1046
00:38:57,795 --> 00:38:59,974
fact they're very normal. Yes.

1047
00:39:00,355 --> 00:39:02,215
Could we talk about something else? Yeah.

1048
00:39:02,994 --> 00:39:06,295
The paradox of individual work in the process,

1049
00:39:06,594 --> 00:39:07,894
your inner experience,

1050
00:39:08,914 --> 00:39:09,414
and

1051
00:39:09,795 --> 00:39:11,014
they're in a group.

1052
00:39:11,769 --> 00:39:14,410
This piece about we spoke about resonance where

1053
00:39:14,410 --> 00:39:16,970
it's like resonating with the group versus what's

1054
00:39:16,970 --> 00:39:18,890
real for me. Mhmm. You speak about that.

1055
00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:19,950
You like that paradox?

1056
00:39:20,570 --> 00:39:22,829
Both the process has individual

1057
00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:25,610
work where you're on your own doing your

1058
00:39:25,610 --> 00:39:26,110
work.

1059
00:39:26,505 --> 00:39:28,125
It's not about other people,

1060
00:39:28,744 --> 00:39:31,484
and there's very much a group dynamic

1061
00:39:32,424 --> 00:39:33,404
that has interactions

1062
00:39:34,105 --> 00:39:34,684
and intentionality

1063
00:39:35,625 --> 00:39:36,364
and experiences

1064
00:39:36,904 --> 00:39:38,204
that are group experiences.

1065
00:39:38,984 --> 00:39:41,484
And the fact that it has both fully

1066
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:44,230
is its part of its genius. That they

1067
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:46,170
can both happen at the same time

1068
00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:48,809
becomes a bit of a current that

1069
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:52,309
is healing for everyone. Yeah. I think I

1070
00:39:52,309 --> 00:39:55,030
wanna bring in something really specific right now,

1071
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:56,250
and it's a guideline

1072
00:39:57,014 --> 00:39:58,154
around no crosstalk.

1073
00:39:58,934 --> 00:40:00,775
I realize I'm revealing a little bit about

1074
00:40:00,775 --> 00:40:02,474
the process, but it feels important

1075
00:40:02,855 --> 00:40:05,014
to bring in here because I think when

1076
00:40:05,014 --> 00:40:08,694
that current happens and people engage in this

1077
00:40:08,694 --> 00:40:09,594
group experience,

1078
00:40:10,054 --> 00:40:12,429
it can get messy. And we do a

1079
00:40:12,429 --> 00:40:14,929
couple things. One is around transference,

1080
00:40:15,789 --> 00:40:17,949
the idea of transference and how it's alive

1081
00:40:17,949 --> 00:40:20,369
inside of you in reaction to

1082
00:40:20,750 --> 00:40:21,570
other people.

1083
00:40:21,949 --> 00:40:24,050
But the other one is no

1084
00:40:24,429 --> 00:40:24,929
crosstalk,

1085
00:40:25,724 --> 00:40:28,224
And it helps people, it helps students

1086
00:40:29,005 --> 00:40:30,545
stay in their lane.

1087
00:40:31,325 --> 00:40:33,405
Because I think, you know, when you're in

1088
00:40:33,405 --> 00:40:34,785
this kind of group experience,

1089
00:40:35,405 --> 00:40:36,525
it's easy to

1090
00:40:37,085 --> 00:40:38,845
and I think it happens a lot to

1091
00:40:38,845 --> 00:40:40,224
cross boundaries, to

1092
00:40:40,650 --> 00:40:42,030
give advice, to

1093
00:40:42,489 --> 00:40:44,750
comment on someone else's experience.

1094
00:40:45,130 --> 00:40:45,949
And we

1095
00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:47,929
hold it it's one of the things that

1096
00:40:47,929 --> 00:40:50,269
impressed the hell out of me in my

1097
00:40:50,409 --> 00:40:51,630
process was like,

1098
00:40:51,929 --> 00:40:53,324
oh, these people,

1099
00:40:53,625 --> 00:40:54,605
they're in charge.

1100
00:40:54,905 --> 00:40:56,905
Oh, they're in charge. And I was like,

1101
00:40:56,905 --> 00:40:57,965
oh, that's great.

1102
00:40:58,344 --> 00:41:00,605
Because when you go through healing,

1103
00:41:01,065 --> 00:41:03,644
it can be wonky at times. It's a

1104
00:41:03,864 --> 00:41:04,364
residential

1105
00:41:04,744 --> 00:41:05,244
experience.

1106
00:41:05,545 --> 00:41:07,244
I remember thinking midweek,

1107
00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:09,610
holy shit. If I had to drive out

1108
00:41:09,610 --> 00:41:12,329
of here right now, I'd crash. Like, I

1109
00:41:12,329 --> 00:41:14,670
don't know. You know, the fact that I

1110
00:41:14,969 --> 00:41:17,530
knew that I could I didn't have to

1111
00:41:17,530 --> 00:41:18,349
cook meals

1112
00:41:18,969 --> 00:41:19,869
and do dishes,

1113
00:41:20,329 --> 00:41:22,269
meal plan, take care of the kids,

1114
00:41:22,734 --> 00:41:24,494
you know, even do laundry. I didn't have

1115
00:41:24,494 --> 00:41:26,335
to worry about any of that. I could

1116
00:41:26,335 --> 00:41:28,114
just engage in my own healing.

1117
00:41:28,414 --> 00:41:29,714
I was grateful for,

1118
00:41:30,014 --> 00:41:31,954
and I'm always grateful for the guidelines

1119
00:41:32,494 --> 00:41:33,474
that help students

1120
00:41:33,934 --> 00:41:36,414
show up to their own work and not

1121
00:41:36,414 --> 00:41:37,234
cross boundaries.

1122
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,760
So that lack of crosstalk and that it

1123
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:41,500
being held

1124
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,320
in a way that was so clear to

1125
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:43,820
you

1126
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:44,699
allowed

1127
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:45,660
you to

1128
00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:47,900
feel safe.

1129
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,019
Be able to be me

1130
00:41:51,494 --> 00:41:54,154
without fear of someone, like, interpreting,

1131
00:41:54,534 --> 00:41:55,034
judging,

1132
00:41:55,335 --> 00:41:56,554
commenting on.

1133
00:41:57,094 --> 00:41:57,914
I mean, I think

1134
00:41:58,454 --> 00:42:00,394
students go through the process,

1135
00:42:00,694 --> 00:42:03,094
and one will have a powerful experience while

1136
00:42:03,094 --> 00:42:05,559
the other is still shut down. And then

1137
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:08,119
that person has a powerful experience while this

1138
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:10,859
person is deeply in pattern. And so

1139
00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:13,420
the fact that it's not everybody

1140
00:42:14,039 --> 00:42:16,039
rising up at the same time having the

1141
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:19,184
same experience, heck no. And so how do

1142
00:42:19,184 --> 00:42:20,644
you hold those differences

1143
00:42:21,184 --> 00:42:22,805
in the midst of a group experience

1144
00:42:23,265 --> 00:42:24,805
is you hold it through guidelines

1145
00:42:25,664 --> 00:42:28,385
and that, you know, let people have their

1146
00:42:28,385 --> 00:42:30,485
experience and don't comment on it.

1147
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,460
Don't interpret it. Don't

1148
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:33,739
judge

1149
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,140
it. Don't make it a part of,

1150
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,539
somehow your experience.

1151
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:41,739
Right? You're in your experience, they're in theirs.

1152
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,980
And, of course, they're patterns, but

1153
00:42:44,324 --> 00:42:47,704
the guidelines help students show up better.

1154
00:42:48,324 --> 00:42:50,565
Yes. I do think it there can be

1155
00:42:50,565 --> 00:42:52,744
patterns that come up, but it does prevent

1156
00:42:52,964 --> 00:42:56,405
holding court or trying to say something to

1157
00:42:56,405 --> 00:42:57,464
sound wise.

1158
00:42:58,210 --> 00:42:59,510
I had a student

1159
00:42:59,809 --> 00:43:00,710
mention something

1160
00:43:01,010 --> 00:43:03,250
today about witnessing in the beginning of the

1161
00:43:03,250 --> 00:43:05,329
week when you asked me what I felt,

1162
00:43:05,329 --> 00:43:06,550
I wanted to sound

1163
00:43:07,010 --> 00:43:07,510
wise.

1164
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:09,750
And I realized because I didn't know

1165
00:43:10,050 --> 00:43:12,769
how I felt. Wow. And now I do.

1166
00:43:12,769 --> 00:43:15,594
And then just tears and this beautiful moment

1167
00:43:15,594 --> 00:43:17,914
of, like, that was all a cover because

1168
00:43:17,914 --> 00:43:19,674
I didn't know how I felt. It was

1169
00:43:19,674 --> 00:43:21,775
a beautiful moment. That's so good.

1170
00:43:22,315 --> 00:43:24,574
That's so good. You know, and

1171
00:43:25,034 --> 00:43:26,094
the the intellect

1172
00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:29,860
loves to jump in and interpret on behalf

1173
00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:32,420
of the emotional self. And, you know, we

1174
00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:35,000
want the emotional self to speak for itself.

1175
00:43:35,539 --> 00:43:37,320
I love this idea that

1176
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,640
everybody wants to feel better,

1177
00:43:40,025 --> 00:43:41,945
but what we really need to do is

1178
00:43:41,945 --> 00:43:43,565
get better at feeling.

1179
00:43:45,305 --> 00:43:47,545
We've got to get better at feeling. We're

1180
00:43:47,545 --> 00:43:48,844
not good feelers.

1181
00:43:49,224 --> 00:43:51,405
We're good interpreters of feeling.

1182
00:43:51,704 --> 00:43:53,805
We're good meaning makers of feelings,

1183
00:43:54,769 --> 00:43:56,389
But we're not really great

1184
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:57,190
feelers.

1185
00:43:58,530 --> 00:44:00,449
We either get stuck in it or we

1186
00:44:00,449 --> 00:44:02,609
judge it or we're trying to run from

1187
00:44:02,609 --> 00:44:03,349
the feeling.

1188
00:44:03,730 --> 00:44:06,609
But I love the podcast I did about

1189
00:44:06,609 --> 00:44:09,909
the ninety second rule with Jill Bolte Taylor

1190
00:44:10,505 --> 00:44:13,805
and her work around emotion and the brain.

1191
00:44:14,344 --> 00:44:15,965
And, just this idea that

1192
00:44:16,265 --> 00:44:18,045
feelings are wonderful.

1193
00:44:18,905 --> 00:44:21,785
Just don't judge them. Be with them and

1194
00:44:21,785 --> 00:44:23,885
you'll move through them a lot quicker.

1195
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:26,069
You move on to the next feeling there.

1196
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:28,150
Mhmm. And the irony, the paradox that if

1197
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:30,230
you try and judge a feeling or resist

1198
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:30,809
a feeling,

1199
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:34,230
you've now attached yourself to that feeling and

1200
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:36,089
you're stuck in the very feeling

1201
00:44:36,655 --> 00:44:37,954
that you're trying to resist.

1202
00:44:38,335 --> 00:44:40,175
Why is that? Why is that happen? Well,

1203
00:44:40,175 --> 00:44:43,135
because the feeling is like, hello. Like, I'm

1204
00:44:43,135 --> 00:44:45,695
a normal part of your day to day

1205
00:44:45,695 --> 00:44:48,414
experience, and now you're shunning me. I have

1206
00:44:48,414 --> 00:44:50,575
no place to go, so I'm just gonna

1207
00:44:50,575 --> 00:44:53,179
hang out with you and trail you around.

1208
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:55,659
And I think, are we really humans

1209
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:56,780
with all these

1210
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:58,219
submersed

1211
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,139
denied feelings

1212
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:02,780
trailing us around in life?

1213
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:04,840
And if we just turn towards them and

1214
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,699
be like, oh, hi. Oh,

1215
00:45:07,265 --> 00:45:08,324
you feel this.

1216
00:45:08,704 --> 00:45:10,724
How better lighter we could feel.

1217
00:45:11,105 --> 00:45:13,045
Yeah. The energy that it takes to

1218
00:45:13,425 --> 00:45:13,925
intentionally

1219
00:45:14,465 --> 00:45:15,364
hold it down.

1220
00:45:15,744 --> 00:45:18,065
Yeah. What is another thing for someone who

1221
00:45:18,065 --> 00:45:21,125
wanted to develop more connection to feeling

1222
00:45:21,710 --> 00:45:23,869
but hadn't done the process with something that

1223
00:45:24,029 --> 00:45:25,869
Well, I think that we have a feeling

1224
00:45:25,869 --> 00:45:28,349
list we put on Instagram, we put on

1225
00:45:28,349 --> 00:45:30,289
out in the public. You know, I've heard

1226
00:45:30,429 --> 00:45:32,369
students come to the process and say,

1227
00:45:32,670 --> 00:45:35,250
wow. I I downloaded this list

1228
00:45:35,894 --> 00:45:37,815
years ago. My wife and I use it.

1229
00:45:37,815 --> 00:45:38,315
And

1230
00:45:38,614 --> 00:45:40,695
so it's out there. But to look at

1231
00:45:40,695 --> 00:45:42,375
the list, you know, when we don't understand

1232
00:45:42,375 --> 00:45:44,614
something, we don't have words for it. And

1233
00:45:44,614 --> 00:45:46,215
so part of what we need to get

1234
00:45:46,215 --> 00:45:48,795
better at is understanding the vocabulary

1235
00:45:49,255 --> 00:45:49,994
of feeling.

1236
00:45:50,619 --> 00:45:51,119
And

1237
00:45:51,420 --> 00:45:53,739
that word list of the vocabulary of feelings

1238
00:45:53,739 --> 00:45:55,039
and the body sensations

1239
00:45:55,659 --> 00:45:57,900
related to feelings is a great place to

1240
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:59,760
start. There's so much

1241
00:46:00,219 --> 00:46:01,359
rich, textured,

1242
00:46:01,659 --> 00:46:02,159
layered,

1243
00:46:02,699 --> 00:46:03,920
nuanced emotions

1244
00:46:04,824 --> 00:46:06,605
and words that reflect that,

1245
00:46:07,224 --> 00:46:09,785
that spend some time with it. We live

1246
00:46:09,785 --> 00:46:12,285
in this binary world of good,

1247
00:46:12,664 --> 00:46:15,405
bad, pretty good, not so bad.

1248
00:46:15,785 --> 00:46:17,885
And that becomes our orientation

1249
00:46:18,590 --> 00:46:20,829
to our experience of ourselves and our experience

1250
00:46:20,829 --> 00:46:21,489
of life,

1251
00:46:21,869 --> 00:46:23,250
and that's not that interesting.

1252
00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:26,030
Yeah. There's so much it's like a black

1253
00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:29,409
and white painting as opposed to colors, textures.

1254
00:46:30,030 --> 00:46:32,210
Yes. I think one of the things I

1255
00:46:32,269 --> 00:46:33,489
mentioned with students

1256
00:46:34,265 --> 00:46:36,425
on the pre call sometimes or certainly in

1257
00:46:36,425 --> 00:46:37,885
that first day is, like,

1258
00:46:38,265 --> 00:46:40,445
your feelings are welcome. All of them

1259
00:46:40,744 --> 00:46:41,405
are welcome

1260
00:46:42,105 --> 00:46:43,244
because they apologize.

1261
00:46:44,025 --> 00:46:47,465
People apologize. You see people have shame for

1262
00:46:47,465 --> 00:46:48,364
feeling emotional.

1263
00:46:48,664 --> 00:46:51,079
Yeah. That is often the first word out

1264
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:52,840
of people's mouths when they start to get

1265
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:53,980
emotional. They apologize

1266
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:54,860
impulsively,

1267
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:55,980
compulsively.

1268
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,500
Oh, I'm sorry. And that's tragic, isn't that?

1269
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,460
Their essence is beginning to emerge and immediately

1270
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:03,340
an apology.

1271
00:47:03,945 --> 00:47:05,625
One of the things that I've done as

1272
00:47:05,625 --> 00:47:07,405
a supervisor recently of processes

1273
00:47:07,945 --> 00:47:09,405
is said to teachers,

1274
00:47:09,945 --> 00:47:12,985
okay take something in your life that needs

1275
00:47:12,985 --> 00:47:13,724
some care

1276
00:47:14,184 --> 00:47:16,859
and just think about it, Hold it.

1277
00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:18,460
Name it to yourself.

1278
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,219
Don't share it with anybody.

1279
00:47:20,839 --> 00:47:22,139
Just name it to yourself

1280
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:25,179
as you step into teaching a process.

1281
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,679
And I'll say to them before the process

1282
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:30,940
starts, do you got it? Everybody got theirs?

1283
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,195
Great. Now just let the process work on

1284
00:47:34,494 --> 00:47:36,815
it. Don't consciously let it work on it.

1285
00:47:36,815 --> 00:47:39,074
Don't intentionally try and make the connections.

1286
00:47:39,454 --> 00:47:40,675
Just hold this

1287
00:47:40,974 --> 00:47:42,114
part of your life

1288
00:47:42,574 --> 00:47:43,315
with care

1289
00:47:43,695 --> 00:47:44,195
and

1290
00:47:44,894 --> 00:47:46,035
notice what happens.

1291
00:47:46,369 --> 00:47:48,469
And then I'll check back on Friday.

1292
00:47:48,929 --> 00:47:49,670
And then

1293
00:47:50,130 --> 00:47:51,809
every time I do it and every time

1294
00:47:51,809 --> 00:47:53,329
I check back Friday, I'll say, what do

1295
00:47:53,329 --> 00:47:55,670
you notice? People are like, oh my god.

1296
00:47:56,289 --> 00:47:59,030
Like, it totally I got so much insight.

1297
00:47:59,570 --> 00:48:01,190
I got some new reflections.

1298
00:48:02,045 --> 00:48:03,585
I have deeper compassion

1299
00:48:03,965 --> 00:48:06,285
for what I won't even ask what was

1300
00:48:06,285 --> 00:48:09,025
it. Keep it to yourself. That's just personal

1301
00:48:09,085 --> 00:48:09,585
stuff.

1302
00:48:10,125 --> 00:48:12,445
But I share that because I think to

1303
00:48:12,445 --> 00:48:13,265
be a teacher

1304
00:48:13,565 --> 00:48:15,724
is quite a privilege not just in supporting

1305
00:48:15,724 --> 00:48:17,265
students in their journey.

1306
00:48:17,900 --> 00:48:20,400
It's also a privilege because we get to

1307
00:48:20,619 --> 00:48:21,680
have an experience

1308
00:48:22,219 --> 00:48:25,019
of healing as well. Yeah. So that's what

1309
00:48:25,019 --> 00:48:26,699
I was gonna ask you is what what's

1310
00:48:26,699 --> 00:48:28,480
your best guess at what's happening?

1311
00:48:29,099 --> 00:48:33,039
Well, there's insight. There's care. There's love. There's

1312
00:48:33,785 --> 00:48:35,244
space being held,

1313
00:48:36,105 --> 00:48:38,925
something's being metabolized, something's being moved,

1314
00:48:39,864 --> 00:48:40,364
something's

1315
00:48:41,065 --> 00:48:42,125
having some,

1316
00:48:42,505 --> 00:48:46,585
like, a washing effect over whatever it is.

1317
00:48:46,585 --> 00:48:47,325
And so,

1318
00:48:48,119 --> 00:48:50,279
you know, the problem is still there. As

1319
00:48:50,279 --> 00:48:51,980
we say to students, you know,

1320
00:48:52,359 --> 00:48:54,519
sometimes you can wish other people would do

1321
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:55,179
the process

1322
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,039
or that the situation is what it is.

1323
00:48:58,039 --> 00:49:00,279
And so what can you do by taking

1324
00:49:00,279 --> 00:49:02,765
the process? And we say to students, really,

1325
00:49:02,765 --> 00:49:04,785
the only person you can change is yourself.

1326
00:49:05,085 --> 00:49:07,005
And at White Sulphur Springs, there used to

1327
00:49:07,005 --> 00:49:08,785
be this saying on the

1328
00:49:09,405 --> 00:49:12,204
fountain right there in the courtyard, all things

1329
00:49:12,204 --> 00:49:12,704
change

1330
00:49:13,005 --> 00:49:16,190
when we do. You remember that? Yes. And

1331
00:49:16,190 --> 00:49:19,250
and I was actually thinking what you're describing

1332
00:49:19,389 --> 00:49:21,469
reminds me of questions I often hear from

1333
00:49:21,469 --> 00:49:21,969
students

1334
00:49:22,349 --> 00:49:24,670
towards the end of their process week. And

1335
00:49:24,670 --> 00:49:26,589
it's like, how do I go home and

1336
00:49:26,589 --> 00:49:28,269
and deal with this problem? What do I

1337
00:49:28,269 --> 00:49:31,954
do about this problem? Yeah. And it's like

1338
00:49:32,174 --> 00:49:34,594
our desire to fix Yeah. Situations.

1339
00:49:35,934 --> 00:49:37,315
And problems happen,

1340
00:49:37,775 --> 00:49:38,914
but there is this

1341
00:49:39,295 --> 00:49:39,795
amazing

1342
00:49:40,094 --> 00:49:40,835
thing where

1343
00:49:41,214 --> 00:49:42,914
the problem looks differently

1344
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:45,920
when you're there

1345
00:49:46,219 --> 00:49:47,900
in a different way, when you're present in

1346
00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:49,420
a different way. Yeah. I'm glad you brought

1347
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:51,019
this up because we're circling back to one

1348
00:49:51,019 --> 00:49:52,699
of my favorite things to the process which

1349
00:49:52,699 --> 00:49:54,559
is essentially be, do, have.

1350
00:49:54,940 --> 00:49:56,239
It is an embodiment

1351
00:49:57,105 --> 00:49:59,905
of who you are at your core and

1352
00:49:59,905 --> 00:50:02,625
an understanding of the patterns that float around

1353
00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:03,764
that block that

1354
00:50:04,065 --> 00:50:08,065
and trusting that from an being place. And

1355
00:50:08,065 --> 00:50:08,565
then

1356
00:50:08,864 --> 00:50:10,385
you'll know what to do. You'll know what

1357
00:50:10,385 --> 00:50:12,389
to say. You'll know how to show up,

1358
00:50:12,469 --> 00:50:14,329
and then you'll have the life you want.

1359
00:50:14,389 --> 00:50:17,029
But students resist that. It is one of

1360
00:50:17,029 --> 00:50:19,210
the hardest things. They wanna strategize.

1361
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:20,730
They wanna fix.

1362
00:50:21,269 --> 00:50:23,449
They sometimes want a quick fix.

1363
00:50:24,565 --> 00:50:26,824
You know, they they think that their situation

1364
00:50:27,525 --> 00:50:30,005
is the piece of feedback that you need

1365
00:50:30,005 --> 00:50:32,644
to comment on, and therefore, they have the

1366
00:50:32,644 --> 00:50:33,144
answer.

1367
00:50:33,605 --> 00:50:36,005
And in fact, the answer comes from within.

1368
00:50:36,005 --> 00:50:37,864
It is not about the gurus

1369
00:50:38,565 --> 00:50:39,385
at the

1370
00:50:39,849 --> 00:50:42,250
front of the classroom dropping mics so that

1371
00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:43,869
students have to write it down

1372
00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:46,269
or that somehow without the teacher,

1373
00:50:46,969 --> 00:50:47,949
their wisdom

1374
00:50:48,569 --> 00:50:50,429
isn't available to them.

1375
00:50:50,969 --> 00:50:53,949
It's all of the stuff they found internally

1376
00:50:54,409 --> 00:50:55,389
inside them.

1377
00:50:55,704 --> 00:50:57,324
And that's the stuff that lasts.

1378
00:50:58,105 --> 00:51:00,125
And the work of the process is embodiment,

1379
00:51:00,744 --> 00:51:02,924
which is the foundation of be, do, have

1380
00:51:02,984 --> 00:51:03,804
and not

1381
00:51:04,664 --> 00:51:07,385
what we've also been sold as a lie

1382
00:51:07,385 --> 00:51:08,284
in society,

1383
00:51:08,664 --> 00:51:09,964
which is do,

1384
00:51:10,619 --> 00:51:11,119
have,

1385
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:14,639
be. And that's the drumbeat we live by.

1386
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:17,019
You gotta do something. Don't just sit there,

1387
00:51:17,019 --> 00:51:17,760
do something.

1388
00:51:18,139 --> 00:51:19,440
Then you'll have the

1389
00:51:19,739 --> 00:51:23,179
status, the cars, the job, the girlfriend, the

1390
00:51:23,179 --> 00:51:23,679
boyfriend,

1391
00:51:24,139 --> 00:51:25,359
whatever it is.

1392
00:51:25,695 --> 00:51:27,715
And then coming in last place,

1393
00:51:28,255 --> 00:51:30,994
you'll be happy. People come to the process.

1394
00:51:31,295 --> 00:51:33,614
Like, I've had moments where we teach that,

1395
00:51:33,614 --> 00:51:34,675
where that's embodied.

1396
00:51:35,055 --> 00:51:36,275
And students are like,

1397
00:51:36,974 --> 00:51:38,275
oh, my God.

1398
00:51:38,655 --> 00:51:40,434
I have been living my life

1399
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:43,460
from do have be, and I didn't even

1400
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:44,199
know it.

1401
00:51:44,820 --> 00:51:45,559
Do you think

1402
00:51:45,860 --> 00:51:48,920
shame is under do have be?

1403
00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:52,099
Well, one of the things that I got

1404
00:51:52,099 --> 00:51:54,280
out of my process I was raised Catholic.

1405
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:57,014
You know, I have, I got that I

1406
00:51:57,014 --> 00:51:58,554
have an incredible family.

1407
00:51:59,175 --> 00:52:00,954
I could never quite square

1408
00:52:01,655 --> 00:52:03,414
that there was so much love in my

1409
00:52:03,414 --> 00:52:03,914
family

1410
00:52:04,375 --> 00:52:05,675
and so many patterns.

1411
00:52:06,375 --> 00:52:08,315
And so, yeah, I think that lives

1412
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,900
inside me. I am pattern

1413
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:13,760
and I am love and spirit and I

1414
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:14,819
can hold both

1415
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,839
without splintering and I can hold the paradox

1416
00:52:17,839 --> 00:52:18,739
of my humanity

1417
00:52:19,279 --> 00:52:20,819
and hold the tension

1418
00:52:21,385 --> 00:52:22,445
in that paradox.

1419
00:52:23,224 --> 00:52:24,364
And without that,

1420
00:52:24,664 --> 00:52:26,905
it's like I have to do something to

1421
00:52:26,905 --> 00:52:27,405
fix

1422
00:52:27,785 --> 00:52:30,184
the problem that I am or the problem

1423
00:52:30,184 --> 00:52:32,585
that that I'm not enough. I have to

1424
00:52:32,585 --> 00:52:34,840
do or achieve. Right? Yeah. It's like a

1425
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,000
this compulsive drive. Yeah. And so part of

1426
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,559
that shame in part, for me, anyway, I'll

1427
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:40,460
speak for me,

1428
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,380
but of original sin.

1429
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,940
I remember saying in mass

1430
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,559
every Sunday, Lord, I'm not worthy to receive

1431
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:49,304
thee. Only say the word and I shall

1432
00:52:49,304 --> 00:52:52,105
be healed. And as a Catholic being raised

1433
00:52:52,105 --> 00:52:55,465
Catholic, it felt like original sin was kind

1434
00:52:55,465 --> 00:52:57,804
of a part. I didn't understand it conceptually.

1435
00:52:58,505 --> 00:53:00,664
I still remember saying those words and being

1436
00:53:00,664 --> 00:53:03,159
like, man, that doesn't seem cool.

1437
00:53:03,460 --> 00:53:05,880
I'm not worthy to receive thee.

1438
00:53:06,260 --> 00:53:08,339
But, when I got to the process, I

1439
00:53:08,339 --> 00:53:08,839
realized,

1440
00:53:09,219 --> 00:53:11,480
oh shit, this is a story of original

1441
00:53:11,699 --> 00:53:14,099
love. This is not original sin. This is

1442
00:53:14,099 --> 00:53:14,599
blowing

1443
00:53:14,900 --> 00:53:17,284
original sin out of the water. Shame.

1444
00:53:17,664 --> 00:53:18,724
This is original

1445
00:53:19,264 --> 00:53:19,764
love.

1446
00:53:20,304 --> 00:53:22,144
And it's one of my favorite pieces of

1447
00:53:22,144 --> 00:53:23,824
the process, and I do think it relates

1448
00:53:23,824 --> 00:53:27,184
to the shame of do, have, be. Back

1449
00:53:27,184 --> 00:53:27,844
to taglines.

1450
00:53:28,304 --> 00:53:29,204
Yeah. Callback.

1451
00:53:29,505 --> 00:53:32,530
Yeah. I am love, loving, and lovable. Yeah.

1452
00:53:32,530 --> 00:53:34,690
The Hoffman process. I am love, loving, and

1453
00:53:34,690 --> 00:53:37,089
lovable. Yeah. Another one could be the Hoffman

1454
00:53:37,089 --> 00:53:37,589
process.

1455
00:53:37,969 --> 00:53:39,750
What it means to heal.

1456
00:53:40,210 --> 00:53:42,769
Because I think people don't understand healing. They

1457
00:53:42,769 --> 00:53:45,190
want a quick fix. They want a hack.

1458
00:53:45,284 --> 00:53:46,264
They want a

1459
00:53:46,644 --> 00:53:48,405
strategy. Mhmm. They want you to step into

1460
00:53:48,405 --> 00:53:51,304
a specific situation and offer us some advice.

1461
00:53:51,444 --> 00:53:52,984
It's like, that's not healing.

1462
00:53:53,684 --> 00:53:56,085
The Hoffman process, what it means to heal.

1463
00:53:56,085 --> 00:53:58,885
Mhmm. What healing looks like. And then another

1464
00:53:58,885 --> 00:54:02,550
one is love, the Hoffman process, an exploration

1465
00:54:03,250 --> 00:54:03,909
of love.

1466
00:54:04,289 --> 00:54:06,289
I mean, love is truly at the core.

1467
00:54:06,289 --> 00:54:08,610
What what is love? That heart, you know,

1468
00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:10,869
that beautiful heart that's like

1469
00:54:11,170 --> 00:54:12,929
the symbol that we see all over the

1470
00:54:12,929 --> 00:54:15,190
place. Small and the negative love back.

1471
00:54:16,405 --> 00:54:18,085
Huge at the end of the week in

1472
00:54:18,085 --> 00:54:20,025
the poster on the back of the wall.

1473
00:54:20,085 --> 00:54:22,885
That is the Hoffman process, an exploration of

1474
00:54:22,885 --> 00:54:24,964
love. So to tie it all back because

1475
00:54:24,964 --> 00:54:26,565
I love to try to make things as

1476
00:54:26,565 --> 00:54:28,739
linear when it works out, it doesn't always.

1477
00:54:28,739 --> 00:54:31,219
Love it. You spoke about your doorway into

1478
00:54:31,219 --> 00:54:32,920
the work was misconnections

1479
00:54:34,019 --> 00:54:36,660
with your wife. And I I think about

1480
00:54:36,660 --> 00:54:38,579
this negative love map, which is a small

1481
00:54:38,579 --> 00:54:39,400
little heart,

1482
00:54:39,780 --> 00:54:41,619
the purity of who we are, the love

1483
00:54:41,619 --> 00:54:43,219
of who we are, covered up by all

1484
00:54:43,219 --> 00:54:44,494
of the things we learned

1485
00:54:44,875 --> 00:54:46,654
to try to be enough

1486
00:54:47,594 --> 00:54:48,574
or be loved.

1487
00:54:48,875 --> 00:54:50,654
And it's just like a shell

1488
00:54:51,034 --> 00:54:53,674
around the heart, and I sometimes think about

1489
00:54:53,674 --> 00:54:55,994
two hearts trying to meet through all of

1490
00:54:55,994 --> 00:54:57,920
this. A student today has called it a

1491
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,599
force field, like this force field and they

1492
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:01,380
can't. It gets frustrating.

1493
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:02,500
Wow.

1494
00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:03,619
So

1495
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:04,420
connection

1496
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,440
post process, did it was it easier to

1497
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:07,940
connect?

1498
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:08,739
Absolutely.

1499
00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:12,094
A pattern still emerged and I think at

1500
00:55:12,094 --> 00:55:13,635
times we were a little confused.

1501
00:55:14,094 --> 00:55:14,994
Like, oh,

1502
00:55:15,295 --> 00:55:16,534
one of the things I reassure I do

1503
00:55:16,534 --> 00:55:17,934
a lot of work with couples. I think

1504
00:55:17,934 --> 00:55:19,154
it's the most dynamic

1505
00:55:19,694 --> 00:55:21,775
coaching out there, so I do lots of

1506
00:55:21,775 --> 00:55:24,414
intensives. But I just reassure couples, and I

1507
00:55:24,414 --> 00:55:25,315
know for me,

1508
00:55:25,614 --> 00:55:28,199
we felt this, which is that, wait, we're

1509
00:55:28,199 --> 00:55:28,699
fighting.

1510
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,880
Oh, no. Shit. We're fighting. You know, and

1511
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,019
we both would get

1512
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,440
fight, try and understand each other, not, and

1513
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,359
then be discouraged by the fact that we

1514
00:55:38,359 --> 00:55:40,840
were fighting. And as we've matured as a

1515
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,835
couple, as we've grown in our love and

1516
00:55:42,835 --> 00:55:43,574
our understanding

1517
00:55:43,954 --> 00:55:45,094
of what love is,

1518
00:55:45,394 --> 00:55:47,015
we treat disagreement

1519
00:55:47,715 --> 00:55:48,535
much differently.

1520
00:55:48,914 --> 00:55:50,215
We treat tension

1521
00:55:50,675 --> 00:55:52,535
between ourselves much differently.

1522
00:55:52,994 --> 00:55:55,394
We don't make meaning of it. That's not

1523
00:55:55,394 --> 00:55:57,335
true. It's just, oh,

1524
00:55:57,789 --> 00:55:58,289
patterns.

1525
00:55:58,670 --> 00:55:59,889
Oh, these are patterns.

1526
00:56:00,589 --> 00:56:02,929
Oh, okay. There can be patterns

1527
00:56:03,230 --> 00:56:06,769
and love. Right there together. Oh. And so

1528
00:56:06,829 --> 00:56:09,069
we're a lot more resilient to the patterns

1529
00:56:09,069 --> 00:56:09,809
that do

1530
00:56:10,109 --> 00:56:12,049
show up in ourselves and

1531
00:56:12,385 --> 00:56:13,445
in the other person

1532
00:56:13,825 --> 00:56:16,864
and with each other. Wonderful. Drew, thank you

1533
00:56:16,864 --> 00:56:19,105
so much. This has been a a really

1534
00:56:19,105 --> 00:56:21,744
exciting fun Yeah. Live video. I feel totally

1535
00:56:21,744 --> 00:56:24,239
energized. Conversation. Oh my god. Yeah.

1536
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:25,059
And,

1537
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:28,880
I'll take the baton from you of Hoffman

1538
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,840
teacher. Mhmm. You just finished. Yeah. I'll take

1539
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,260
it in and bring the love that you

1540
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,880
and your students and the work and the

1541
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,380
courage

1542
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:39,460
that you guys

1543
00:56:40,364 --> 00:56:43,105
brought to the week here on the Hoffman

1544
00:56:43,164 --> 00:56:45,005
Retreat site. Yes. I hope you have a

1545
00:56:45,005 --> 00:56:47,405
great week. Thank you. Mhmm. Sadie, great to

1546
00:56:47,405 --> 00:56:48,545
be with you. Yeah.

1547
00:56:48,925 --> 00:56:49,664
High five.

1548
00:57:01,460 --> 00:57:03,539
Thank you for listening to our podcast. My

1549
00:57:03,539 --> 00:57:05,940
name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and

1550
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:07,960
president of Hoffman Institute Foundation.

1551
00:57:08,505 --> 00:57:09,885
And I'm Razzi Grassi,

1552
00:57:10,424 --> 00:57:13,484
Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute

1553
00:57:13,545 --> 00:57:14,045
Foundation.

1554
00:57:14,585 --> 00:57:17,545
Our mission is to provide people greater access

1555
00:57:17,545 --> 00:57:19,944
to the wisdom and power of love. In

1556
00:57:19,944 --> 00:57:22,444
themselves, in each other, and in the world.

1557
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,460
To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.