1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:01,860 Yeah. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,040 That's the unlock for me post Hoffman is, 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,740 like, realizing that 4 00:00:07,279 --> 00:00:08,820 God, the universe, whomever 5 00:00:09,279 --> 00:00:12,900 has your back, go enjoy your life, Madison. 6 00:00:13,519 --> 00:00:14,500 Do this work, 7 00:00:15,044 --> 00:00:18,105 commit to this process, and enjoy your life. 8 00:00:19,845 --> 00:00:22,725 Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and 9 00:00:22,725 --> 00:00:25,704 this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius. 10 00:00:26,404 --> 00:00:28,425 It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute, 11 00:00:28,725 --> 00:00:31,550 and it's stories and anecdotes 12 00:00:32,090 --> 00:00:33,630 and people we interview 13 00:00:34,090 --> 00:00:35,710 about their life post process 14 00:00:36,010 --> 00:00:38,590 and how it lives in the world radiating 15 00:00:38,810 --> 00:00:39,310 love. 16 00:00:47,174 --> 00:00:49,354 Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. 17 00:00:49,814 --> 00:00:53,174 Madison Uttendahl is with us. Welcome, Madison. Thank 18 00:00:53,174 --> 00:00:55,734 you, Drew. Good to see you. How are 19 00:00:55,734 --> 00:00:56,554 you feeling? 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:58,140 In this moment, 21 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,640 I I'm feeling really excited. I'm it's so 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,799 good to see you. I feel that deeply 23 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:05,500 in my body. It's it's enthusiasm. 24 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,959 Takes you back to your process a little 25 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,165 bit, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, I don't 26 00:01:10,165 --> 00:01:11,364 know if I look back I think of 27 00:01:11,364 --> 00:01:13,844 that specifically, but I I think of what 28 00:01:13,844 --> 00:01:15,605 has come out of the process and what 29 00:01:15,605 --> 00:01:17,625 I learned from you, and I'm so grateful. 30 00:01:18,245 --> 00:01:19,385 Oh, wonderful. 31 00:01:20,165 --> 00:01:20,905 Thank you. 32 00:01:21,204 --> 00:01:23,385 Where do we start this story? 33 00:01:24,005 --> 00:01:24,505 Yeah. 34 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,180 I think this story makes the most sense 35 00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:30,400 to start, I guess, six months before I 36 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,299 went to Hoffman. 37 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,780 But I think even before that, 38 00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:34,900 I have 39 00:01:35,599 --> 00:01:37,459 identified or spent the majority 40 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,700 of my adult life 41 00:01:40,474 --> 00:01:41,935 feeling deeply enmeshed 42 00:01:42,314 --> 00:01:43,295 in my career 43 00:01:44,155 --> 00:01:44,655 and 44 00:01:45,114 --> 00:01:47,834 feeling that my identity and my career were 45 00:01:47,834 --> 00:01:48,575 one thing. 46 00:01:49,275 --> 00:01:52,075 And six months before Hoffman, I had actually 47 00:01:52,075 --> 00:01:53,215 closed my business, 48 00:01:53,790 --> 00:01:55,230 And it was the first time in my 49 00:01:55,230 --> 00:01:56,850 life where I was like, wait. 50 00:01:58,189 --> 00:01:59,569 Who am I without 51 00:02:00,590 --> 00:02:02,290 this business and this career? 52 00:02:02,990 --> 00:02:04,670 And how am I gonna start over? Do 53 00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:06,350 I need to attach to something? Do I 54 00:02:06,350 --> 00:02:08,290 need to, you know, build another company? 55 00:02:09,344 --> 00:02:09,844 And 56 00:02:10,944 --> 00:02:12,085 I don't know specifically 57 00:02:12,705 --> 00:02:13,844 why this 58 00:02:14,385 --> 00:02:15,985 time of my life led me to be 59 00:02:15,985 --> 00:02:17,665 like, okay, now's the time to do Hoffman, 60 00:02:17,665 --> 00:02:20,145 but I made a a subconscious decision in 61 00:02:20,145 --> 00:02:22,325 that moment of being like, who am I? 62 00:02:23,379 --> 00:02:24,979 That going about it in the way I 63 00:02:24,979 --> 00:02:27,620 traditionally would have, like, therapy once a week 64 00:02:27,620 --> 00:02:29,300 was not gonna cut it. But if I 65 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:30,979 really wanted to see change, I had to 66 00:02:30,979 --> 00:02:32,520 take a much bigger step. 67 00:02:32,979 --> 00:02:35,414 And then, you know, here we 68 00:02:35,715 --> 00:02:36,215 are. 69 00:02:38,435 --> 00:02:40,694 So you had that moment in time 70 00:02:41,235 --> 00:02:41,735 when 71 00:02:42,034 --> 00:02:43,334 identity and 72 00:02:44,115 --> 00:02:45,414 job and career 73 00:02:46,115 --> 00:02:48,534 began to crumble a little bit. The connection 74 00:02:48,675 --> 00:02:50,134 wasn't as strong. 75 00:02:50,889 --> 00:02:51,389 Yeah. 76 00:02:51,689 --> 00:02:52,430 And completely 77 00:02:52,730 --> 00:02:54,650 by my own choice. That was also really 78 00:02:54,650 --> 00:02:56,909 interesting. I chose to close my company. 79 00:02:57,290 --> 00:02:58,510 I didn't need to. 80 00:02:58,969 --> 00:02:59,469 And 81 00:03:00,169 --> 00:03:02,969 that's a rare, also very privileged place where 82 00:03:02,969 --> 00:03:04,810 I had decided that I don't wanna do 83 00:03:04,810 --> 00:03:05,469 this anymore. 84 00:03:06,125 --> 00:03:08,784 And I realized that I could either 85 00:03:09,245 --> 00:03:11,164 close this company now and be grateful for 86 00:03:11,164 --> 00:03:12,144 what I had built, 87 00:03:12,604 --> 00:03:14,284 or I could push it along with a 88 00:03:14,284 --> 00:03:16,305 lack of values alignment and no enthusiasm. 89 00:03:16,685 --> 00:03:18,764 It's and over time, it ultimately probably would 90 00:03:18,764 --> 00:03:20,379 have started to fail because I don't think 91 00:03:20,379 --> 00:03:22,539 when you're when you can't build successful things 92 00:03:22,539 --> 00:03:23,900 if you're if you hate it, in my 93 00:03:23,900 --> 00:03:26,459 opinion. So that was the intersection that I 94 00:03:26,459 --> 00:03:27,659 was at, and I was like, okay. I'm 95 00:03:27,659 --> 00:03:29,900 closing it. But I didn't think about the 96 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:30,400 emotional 97 00:03:30,699 --> 00:03:32,219 toll of what it would mean to not 98 00:03:32,219 --> 00:03:33,919 have it. That was the 99 00:03:34,395 --> 00:03:36,794 the shock for me. And what was that 100 00:03:36,794 --> 00:03:37,294 toll? 101 00:03:37,675 --> 00:03:39,294 Just complete disconnection 102 00:03:39,675 --> 00:03:40,414 of self. 103 00:03:41,034 --> 00:03:43,435 I didn't know who I was without my 104 00:03:43,435 --> 00:03:43,935 job. 105 00:03:44,715 --> 00:03:45,995 I didn't know how to have to spend 106 00:03:45,995 --> 00:03:47,914 my time. I didn't know I found that 107 00:03:47,914 --> 00:03:50,580 I ended up just occupying and creating a 108 00:03:50,580 --> 00:03:53,240 schedule that was as full, but with bullshit. 109 00:03:53,699 --> 00:03:55,379 You know what I mean? It was like, 110 00:03:55,379 --> 00:03:57,620 coffee with this person, and then go do 111 00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:59,939 this workout, and then go do this. And 112 00:03:59,939 --> 00:04:00,979 I was like, wait a minute. This is 113 00:04:00,979 --> 00:04:02,340 the first time in my damn life that, 114 00:04:02,340 --> 00:04:04,259 like, I actually have the space to think, 115 00:04:04,259 --> 00:04:07,014 and I'm just feeling it. And then Hoffman 116 00:04:07,075 --> 00:04:08,935 sounded like a pretty good idea. 117 00:04:09,474 --> 00:04:11,795 Yeah. It did. And I honestly drew to 118 00:04:11,795 --> 00:04:13,495 this day. I have no idea 119 00:04:14,675 --> 00:04:18,375 why in January 25, I thought about Hoffman. 120 00:04:18,949 --> 00:04:21,209 My college roommate went to Hoffman. 121 00:04:21,670 --> 00:04:23,050 And so it had been 122 00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:25,509 over a decade. I mean, I I'm 34. 123 00:04:25,509 --> 00:04:27,110 Right? So I've been out of college for 124 00:04:27,110 --> 00:04:28,009 thirteen years, 125 00:04:28,629 --> 00:04:29,129 but 126 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:31,509 I'm sitting in the dead of winter in 127 00:04:31,509 --> 00:04:34,009 New York and Upstate, and I'm like, 128 00:04:34,694 --> 00:04:35,194 boom. 129 00:04:35,974 --> 00:04:38,694 Emma went. Emma went to this thing. Why 130 00:04:38,694 --> 00:04:41,034 don't you look that thing up? Wow. 131 00:04:41,414 --> 00:04:43,735 You hadn't thought of Emma or maybe Emma 132 00:04:43,735 --> 00:04:46,294 going to Hoffman in a long time, and 133 00:04:46,294 --> 00:04:48,314 all of a sudden, that came to you. 134 00:04:48,694 --> 00:04:49,754 Thirteen years. 135 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:50,580 Yeah. 136 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:53,360 I had a moment about two or three 137 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,600 years ago. I had coffee with my friend, 138 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,920 April McDaniel, who who you know. She's also 139 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,000 been on this show and has done the 140 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,500 process. 141 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,199 And she mentioned how much Hoffman had changed 142 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:04,845 her life. And that was the second time 143 00:05:04,845 --> 00:05:07,245 I met or been around somebody, became friends 144 00:05:07,245 --> 00:05:09,805 with someone where Hoffman process had really impacted 145 00:05:09,805 --> 00:05:12,125 them. But outside of these two period, like, 146 00:05:12,125 --> 00:05:14,284 windows of my life and two individuals, like, 147 00:05:14,284 --> 00:05:17,345 this wasn't I'm not in a Hoffman community. 148 00:05:17,644 --> 00:05:19,639 Right? So it was shocking 149 00:05:20,339 --> 00:05:23,139 that I just my brain brought it all 150 00:05:23,139 --> 00:05:25,879 together, and it was time. It was time. 151 00:05:26,339 --> 00:05:29,220 Wow. So you sign up and you find 152 00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:30,680 yourself in Connecticut 153 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:31,720 on-site. 154 00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:35,295 Yeah. Nervous as all hell. I contemplated 155 00:05:36,074 --> 00:05:36,894 not going 156 00:05:37,754 --> 00:05:38,735 so many times. 157 00:05:39,274 --> 00:05:39,774 And 158 00:05:40,314 --> 00:05:41,675 I say this because I think a lot 159 00:05:41,675 --> 00:05:42,254 of people 160 00:05:42,794 --> 00:05:44,475 will feel this way or feel this way 161 00:05:44,475 --> 00:05:47,194 going to Hoffman. I, pre Hoffman, had done 162 00:05:47,194 --> 00:05:48,175 all of the things. 163 00:05:48,790 --> 00:05:51,189 Any kind of damn therapy that exists, I 164 00:05:51,189 --> 00:05:54,250 have done it. Ketamine therapy, DBT, CBT, 165 00:05:54,550 --> 00:05:55,050 somatic, 166 00:05:55,430 --> 00:05:58,470 EMDR. Like, if there's a therapy modality out 167 00:05:58,470 --> 00:05:58,970 there, 168 00:05:59,430 --> 00:06:02,149 I have tried at least one session. And 169 00:06:02,149 --> 00:06:03,930 so there was a part of me 170 00:06:04,384 --> 00:06:06,404 that had convinced myself, 171 00:06:07,264 --> 00:06:08,944 really, I would say the two weeks before 172 00:06:08,944 --> 00:06:10,644 going that I didn't need to go. 173 00:06:11,105 --> 00:06:12,785 You know, I had been in therapy since 174 00:06:12,785 --> 00:06:13,764 I was 15. 175 00:06:14,384 --> 00:06:16,625 I am grateful. My parents when my parents 176 00:06:16,625 --> 00:06:17,365 got divorced, 177 00:06:17,779 --> 00:06:19,699 we had no choice. They put us in 178 00:06:19,699 --> 00:06:21,939 therapy. So my siblings and I have all 179 00:06:21,939 --> 00:06:23,540 been in therapy for a very long time, 180 00:06:23,540 --> 00:06:25,379 and I'm so grateful for my parents. Keep 181 00:06:25,379 --> 00:06:26,819 in mind, those are two people who have 182 00:06:26,819 --> 00:06:29,240 never been to therapy. So I don't know 183 00:06:29,699 --> 00:06:31,879 why they were so insistent, but I'm grateful. 184 00:06:32,814 --> 00:06:34,915 So I I didn't think I needed it. 185 00:06:35,055 --> 00:06:37,214 I was like, oh, I'm past I'm past 186 00:06:37,214 --> 00:06:39,134 this, like, who am I part? It's six 187 00:06:39,134 --> 00:06:41,615 months after I had that existential crisis. I 188 00:06:41,615 --> 00:06:42,814 know who I am. I don't need to 189 00:06:42,814 --> 00:06:43,314 go. 190 00:06:43,694 --> 00:06:44,194 And 191 00:06:45,269 --> 00:06:46,490 I was so wrong. 192 00:06:47,110 --> 00:06:48,949 The brain can do all kinds of tricks. 193 00:06:48,949 --> 00:06:51,110 Like, that moment you had that got you 194 00:06:51,110 --> 00:06:52,889 to sign up months before, 195 00:06:53,189 --> 00:06:55,829 all of a sudden felt kinda distant, and 196 00:06:55,829 --> 00:06:57,750 you're like, wait a minute. I I have 197 00:06:57,750 --> 00:06:59,370 done a lot of work. And 198 00:06:59,925 --> 00:07:01,764 now your mind is telling you, do you 199 00:07:01,764 --> 00:07:04,085 really need this thing? Do I really need 200 00:07:04,085 --> 00:07:06,264 it? But I also had this you know, 201 00:07:06,725 --> 00:07:08,824 now I know deeply that as my spiritual 202 00:07:08,884 --> 00:07:10,264 self was telling me 203 00:07:11,205 --> 00:07:13,919 I needed it and that my intellect was 204 00:07:13,919 --> 00:07:15,300 the one who was procrastinating. 205 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:19,139 So I famously got in my questionnaire 206 00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:22,479 super late. I mean, y'all were hitting me 207 00:07:22,479 --> 00:07:24,319 up every second. You were like, you need 208 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,399 to fill out this questionnaire, and I was 209 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:28,204 like, I'll get to it. I'll get to 210 00:07:28,204 --> 00:07:31,084 it. That's very unlike me. I'm a type 211 00:07:31,084 --> 00:07:33,245 a person. And then also the other thing 212 00:07:33,245 --> 00:07:35,165 is the booking the hotel after Hoffman. I 213 00:07:35,165 --> 00:07:37,504 didn't book the hotel. There was a rebellious 214 00:07:37,564 --> 00:07:38,925 part of me that was like, you are 215 00:07:38,925 --> 00:07:40,490 not gonna do this, and we are gonna 216 00:07:40,490 --> 00:07:42,889 sabotage and prevent you from doing this the 217 00:07:42,889 --> 00:07:43,629 right way. 218 00:07:44,490 --> 00:07:44,990 That 219 00:07:45,610 --> 00:07:47,850 resistance is also what drove me because I 220 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:50,169 was like, there's something I'm not choosing to 221 00:07:50,169 --> 00:07:52,329 look at. Why am I not sending in 222 00:07:52,329 --> 00:07:54,669 this questionnaire? Why didn't I book the hotel? 223 00:07:55,535 --> 00:07:57,295 Why am I resisting these things? Why am 224 00:07:57,295 --> 00:07:59,634 I the last person? That's never me. 225 00:08:00,095 --> 00:08:02,735 What am I trying not to unpack? And 226 00:08:02,735 --> 00:08:03,235 so 227 00:08:03,615 --> 00:08:04,355 I went. 228 00:08:04,735 --> 00:08:06,975 So take us into your week. What happens 229 00:08:06,975 --> 00:08:08,035 as it unfolds? 230 00:08:09,029 --> 00:08:09,529 Gosh. 231 00:08:10,069 --> 00:08:11,050 So I 232 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:12,810 locked in pretty quick. 233 00:08:13,589 --> 00:08:16,790 I had a lot of anger. So anger 234 00:08:16,790 --> 00:08:19,189 being one of the first emotions that you 235 00:08:19,189 --> 00:08:20,170 confront at Hoffman, 236 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:22,730 was very conducive to where I was 237 00:08:23,504 --> 00:08:24,725 subconsciously and consciously. 238 00:08:25,105 --> 00:08:26,785 So it allowed for me to lock into 239 00:08:26,785 --> 00:08:29,845 the process day one. I had no idea 240 00:08:30,384 --> 00:08:32,945 the level of ferocity or anger that I 241 00:08:32,945 --> 00:08:35,345 had within my body as somebody who's very 242 00:08:35,345 --> 00:08:37,585 physically connected to my body, who is an 243 00:08:37,585 --> 00:08:40,569 avid runner, who works out regularly, I I 244 00:08:40,569 --> 00:08:42,110 just felt like I had 245 00:08:43,049 --> 00:08:45,610 regular ways of or modalities in my life 246 00:08:45,610 --> 00:08:46,909 were expressed physically. 247 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:49,769 So I was I was very surprised by 248 00:08:49,769 --> 00:08:51,929 myself in the beginning of Hoffman. I was 249 00:08:51,929 --> 00:08:53,665 like, who is this person that is holding 250 00:08:53,665 --> 00:08:55,504 on to all of these things? And the 251 00:08:55,504 --> 00:08:57,365 other thing that I, you know, was 252 00:08:57,825 --> 00:09:00,465 very surprised by is my anger was very 253 00:09:00,465 --> 00:09:02,225 much I thought I would go in fifty 254 00:09:02,225 --> 00:09:04,384 fifty with both of my parents, but my 255 00:09:04,384 --> 00:09:07,365 anger was very over indexed to my mother. 256 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,080 I had way less anger to my dad 257 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,559 actually than I thought going into Hoffman. I 258 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,720 very quickly realized that I had way more 259 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,279 compassion and understanding and connection to him than 260 00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:19,759 I gave myself credit for. But the anger 261 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:22,794 towards my mother was, wow, that that was 262 00:09:22,794 --> 00:09:23,695 their present. 263 00:09:24,154 --> 00:09:26,394 And it came out very quickly and very 264 00:09:26,394 --> 00:09:26,894 early. 265 00:09:27,355 --> 00:09:29,115 So you engage in some of the early 266 00:09:29,115 --> 00:09:31,054 cathartic work at Hoffman. 267 00:09:31,434 --> 00:09:34,254 And then what happens next as a result 268 00:09:34,715 --> 00:09:36,815 of that cathartic work? Did it 269 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,700 support you in feeling differently? What emerged next? 270 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,300 Yeah. I mean, it definitely allowed for me 271 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:45,340 to 272 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:47,980 settle myself 273 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,540 and to become grounded 274 00:09:50,915 --> 00:09:53,014 and less anxious and worried and overwhelmed. 275 00:09:53,795 --> 00:09:55,315 But I do think, you know, if I 276 00:09:55,315 --> 00:09:58,035 think about my journey, I catapulted into the 277 00:09:58,035 --> 00:10:00,675 emotions. And then by day four, I was 278 00:10:00,675 --> 00:10:02,134 like, I gotta get out of here. 279 00:10:02,835 --> 00:10:05,715 That was this interesting experience for me where 280 00:10:05,715 --> 00:10:07,610 I really oh, I committed. I don't wanna 281 00:10:07,610 --> 00:10:09,629 say over committed, but I was leaned in 282 00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:11,870 day one to day four. And day four, 283 00:10:12,169 --> 00:10:14,830 I went to my coach and was like, 284 00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:16,730 I think I think I've done it. I've 285 00:10:16,730 --> 00:10:17,389 got it. 286 00:10:18,009 --> 00:10:19,309 I don't need to stay. 287 00:10:19,654 --> 00:10:21,815 I was feeling better, and I also was 288 00:10:21,815 --> 00:10:24,235 feeling just complete exhaustion, 289 00:10:24,535 --> 00:10:26,215 to be honest. There was part of me 290 00:10:26,215 --> 00:10:27,575 that was like, I don't know if I 291 00:10:27,575 --> 00:10:30,315 can continue from an emotional exhaustion level 292 00:10:30,695 --> 00:10:33,195 because I had committed and given so much. 293 00:10:33,779 --> 00:10:35,940 So I genuinely was like, this tank is 294 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:36,440 empty. 295 00:10:36,820 --> 00:10:38,339 I was like, I think I'm good. It 296 00:10:38,339 --> 00:10:39,559 wasn't in a protest. 297 00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:42,659 It was very much in, like, this work. 298 00:10:42,659 --> 00:10:44,659 This was worth the money. Thank you very 299 00:10:44,659 --> 00:10:45,159 much. 300 00:10:45,855 --> 00:10:48,195 Alright. I'm gonna start packing my things. 301 00:10:48,735 --> 00:10:50,095 I love my coach. I had a very 302 00:10:50,095 --> 00:10:51,955 special connection with him. He's wonderful. 303 00:10:52,975 --> 00:10:53,475 Klaus, 304 00:10:54,014 --> 00:10:56,735 he was like, no. You you if he's 305 00:10:56,735 --> 00:10:58,414 like, there's more to this. There's more to 306 00:10:58,414 --> 00:11:00,575 uncover. And he also shared, which I appreciate 307 00:11:00,575 --> 00:11:02,029 that, like, it gets lighter, 308 00:11:02,730 --> 00:11:04,350 and you will experience 309 00:11:04,730 --> 00:11:07,529 more emotions that are rooted in joy. And 310 00:11:07,529 --> 00:11:09,769 I found that very hard to believe, but 311 00:11:09,769 --> 00:11:12,649 he was right. And I was so grateful 312 00:11:12,649 --> 00:11:14,570 because as Mark says, like, day five is 313 00:11:14,570 --> 00:11:17,165 magic, and that is the truest statement. 314 00:11:18,024 --> 00:11:20,425 I thrived on day five, and I'm so 315 00:11:20,425 --> 00:11:21,404 happy I stayed. 316 00:11:21,785 --> 00:11:23,565 But day four was definitely 317 00:11:23,865 --> 00:11:26,345 a rough breaking point for me, very much 318 00:11:26,345 --> 00:11:28,585 so. So you went back in. You had 319 00:11:28,585 --> 00:11:29,245 a beautiful 320 00:11:30,149 --> 00:11:32,490 connection to more joy and magic. 321 00:11:33,429 --> 00:11:35,049 And then the process 322 00:11:35,589 --> 00:11:37,669 comes to a close. What was the end 323 00:11:37,669 --> 00:11:39,929 like for you after those few days? 324 00:11:40,309 --> 00:11:43,449 The end of the process was deeply emotional. 325 00:11:44,065 --> 00:11:46,305 There was a sense of sadness that I 326 00:11:46,305 --> 00:11:47,445 felt at the end, 327 00:11:48,225 --> 00:11:50,884 the experience and the people and this profound 328 00:11:50,945 --> 00:11:51,445 connection 329 00:11:51,904 --> 00:11:54,225 of the individuals that you meet. I don't 330 00:11:54,225 --> 00:11:56,865 know if it's just my particular cohort, but 331 00:11:56,865 --> 00:11:57,524 we have 332 00:11:57,879 --> 00:11:59,559 all very much stayed in touch. We do 333 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,559 do dinners. We're doing it. There's 15 of 334 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,559 us having dinner on October 4. So it 335 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,879 did feel like this very deep connected group 336 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:06,539 of individuals. 337 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,159 So it's very sad to leave that. And 338 00:12:09,159 --> 00:12:11,965 I found myself just overwhelmed with so much 339 00:12:11,965 --> 00:12:15,825 emotion upon leaving. I sobbed my whole drive 340 00:12:15,884 --> 00:12:17,585 back to the hotel after 341 00:12:18,284 --> 00:12:19,264 just wept. 342 00:12:20,125 --> 00:12:22,205 You didn't have a hotel, so how how 343 00:12:22,205 --> 00:12:24,205 did you Oh, yeah. That was actually a 344 00:12:24,205 --> 00:12:26,205 really fascinating moment for me to realize that 345 00:12:26,205 --> 00:12:27,669 one of my patterns that I worked on 346 00:12:27,669 --> 00:12:29,049 throughout Hoffman was control. 347 00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:31,110 Like, when people tell me they use hotels 348 00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:32,629 tonight to figure out where they're gonna stay, 349 00:12:32,629 --> 00:12:34,790 I'm like, you're crazy. Like, that would I 350 00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:37,590 would never decide day of where I'm staying 351 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:38,090 anywhere. 352 00:12:38,549 --> 00:12:41,049 That's just not how my personality works. 353 00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:43,475 But here I was, and I really do 354 00:12:43,615 --> 00:12:45,294 do believe in divine timing, and I believe 355 00:12:45,294 --> 00:12:47,214 in the universe, and I believe everything happens 356 00:12:47,214 --> 00:12:47,875 for a reason. 357 00:12:48,654 --> 00:12:49,475 There was something 358 00:12:49,934 --> 00:12:52,254 subconscious that led me not to book a 359 00:12:52,254 --> 00:12:52,754 hotel 360 00:12:53,375 --> 00:12:55,679 and the work of Hoffman Hoffman and releasing 361 00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:58,940 control and realizing that control was not keeping 362 00:12:58,940 --> 00:12:59,600 me safe 363 00:13:00,139 --> 00:13:02,480 led me to this moment right after Hoffman 364 00:13:02,539 --> 00:13:03,919 where I had to confront 365 00:13:04,379 --> 00:13:05,440 the very pattern 366 00:13:06,714 --> 00:13:08,875 that I was predominantly working through, which was 367 00:13:08,875 --> 00:13:10,554 I had no control of where I was 368 00:13:10,554 --> 00:13:12,735 going to stay. And it was a beautiful 369 00:13:13,355 --> 00:13:16,394 weekend in June in Connecticut, which meant most 370 00:13:16,394 --> 00:13:18,075 of the hotels that I would have chosen 371 00:13:18,075 --> 00:13:19,294 to stay were booked. 372 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:21,840 So I had to go and held hotels 373 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,340 tonight, 374 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:23,460 and 375 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,059 I found a motel on the beach 376 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,539 in a random ass town 377 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,019 an hour and fifteen minutes away. 378 00:13:32,825 --> 00:13:35,225 And I was like, wow. Okay. Here I 379 00:13:35,225 --> 00:13:36,745 go. I'm getting in the car, and I 380 00:13:36,745 --> 00:13:38,745 drove. And I pulled up, and they were 381 00:13:38,745 --> 00:13:40,985 like, who's this lady? Because it was that 382 00:13:40,985 --> 00:13:42,365 random of a place. 383 00:13:43,625 --> 00:13:44,845 But I was fine. 384 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:48,370 And it was fine. And everything was okay. 385 00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:49,910 And I had a lovely 386 00:13:50,290 --> 00:13:51,430 integration weekend. 387 00:13:51,889 --> 00:13:54,529 I left that weekend feeling more than ever 388 00:13:54,529 --> 00:13:55,590 this sense of 389 00:13:56,290 --> 00:13:57,269 deep trust 390 00:13:58,634 --> 00:14:00,014 and that not having 391 00:14:00,394 --> 00:14:01,934 control over everything 392 00:14:02,315 --> 00:14:04,875 was actually an opportunity for me to realize 393 00:14:04,875 --> 00:14:05,615 that, like, 394 00:14:05,915 --> 00:14:06,894 I am safe. 395 00:14:07,595 --> 00:14:10,554 Life is working in my favor. There's nothing 396 00:14:10,554 --> 00:14:11,615 I cannot handle. 397 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,120 I'm doing just fine in this motel in 398 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:14,620 Connecticut. 399 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:17,899 That was all part of the plan, apparently. 400 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,399 It is this wild thing about patterns and 401 00:14:21,399 --> 00:14:23,019 control in particular, 402 00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:25,019 but that the reason 403 00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:27,845 we do them is because we have a 404 00:14:27,845 --> 00:14:29,625 need for certainty and control. 405 00:14:30,245 --> 00:14:32,965 But one of the things about patterns and 406 00:14:32,965 --> 00:14:35,445 control in particular is that it never really 407 00:14:35,445 --> 00:14:36,664 gives you the thing 408 00:14:37,044 --> 00:14:40,360 you're seeking as you do it. Control doesn't 409 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,679 help. It's it doesn't support. 410 00:14:43,220 --> 00:14:44,519 No. It doesn't. And 411 00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:46,279 I have so much compassion. 412 00:14:46,899 --> 00:14:48,980 And what I think the process did very 413 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:51,700 well for me was help me understand that 414 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:54,039 that pattern came honestly. 415 00:14:54,965 --> 00:14:57,384 I think what has been mislabeled 416 00:14:57,685 --> 00:14:59,605 or something I feel that I had been 417 00:14:59,605 --> 00:15:02,325 mislabeled by with people is that control was 418 00:15:02,325 --> 00:15:03,785 a personality trait, 419 00:15:04,245 --> 00:15:06,404 and I learned at Hoffman that control was 420 00:15:06,404 --> 00:15:07,545 a survival instinct. 421 00:15:08,179 --> 00:15:10,179 If it was a survival instinct, that mean 422 00:15:10,179 --> 00:15:13,139 I could unlearn it versus a personality trait, 423 00:15:13,139 --> 00:15:15,459 you know, felt very much ingrained in who 424 00:15:15,459 --> 00:15:17,079 I was as a human being. 425 00:15:17,459 --> 00:15:19,399 And I learned that young Madison, 426 00:15:20,355 --> 00:15:21,894 to no fault of her own, 427 00:15:22,274 --> 00:15:25,254 developed control to deal with her childhood. 428 00:15:25,634 --> 00:15:27,634 When you say come by it honestly, that's 429 00:15:27,634 --> 00:15:30,355 part of what you're talking about. Exactly. That 430 00:15:30,434 --> 00:15:32,834 and it was liberating for me to know 431 00:15:32,834 --> 00:15:34,914 that this wasn't a personality trait. I am 432 00:15:34,914 --> 00:15:37,759 not a controlling person that this younger 433 00:15:38,299 --> 00:15:39,440 version of me 434 00:15:39,899 --> 00:15:42,220 needed to do that and needed to adopt 435 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:44,620 that. From everything, my birth order and my 436 00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:47,659 family to, you know, Gabor Mate talks about, 437 00:15:47,659 --> 00:15:49,980 like, the misconception is that siblings have the 438 00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:52,065 same parents. Like, you don't. You maybe have 439 00:15:52,065 --> 00:15:54,445 the same biological parents by blood, but, 440 00:15:54,745 --> 00:15:56,745 like, where your parents are in their life 441 00:15:56,745 --> 00:15:57,245 journey 442 00:15:57,625 --> 00:15:59,625 according to when you are born, you don't 443 00:15:59,625 --> 00:16:01,225 have the same parents. You're not raised by 444 00:16:01,225 --> 00:16:03,865 the same people. So both of my siblings 445 00:16:03,865 --> 00:16:04,684 are significantly 446 00:16:05,065 --> 00:16:07,110 more relaxed than I am. And I'm like, 447 00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:07,610 well, 448 00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:09,990 I was the first. You know what I 449 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:11,209 mean? Like, my 450 00:16:11,669 --> 00:16:13,929 dynamic with our parents was very different, 451 00:16:14,789 --> 00:16:18,230 and this came honestly. But I don't feel 452 00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:20,355 that. I what's so cool is that I 453 00:16:20,355 --> 00:16:22,834 really have released control in so many ways 454 00:16:22,834 --> 00:16:24,834 in my life. I mean, you know, I 455 00:16:24,834 --> 00:16:26,995 almost went too extreme. Like, I went to 456 00:16:26,995 --> 00:16:27,495 Spain 457 00:16:28,115 --> 00:16:30,034 a month after Hoffman, and I was like, 458 00:16:30,034 --> 00:16:31,495 I don't need to book a hotel 459 00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:34,620 because it works out for me, and it 460 00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:37,019 didn't. Like, I was there's certain parts of 461 00:16:37,019 --> 00:16:37,519 my 462 00:16:37,899 --> 00:16:41,179 personality. Like, planning a trip is still a 463 00:16:41,179 --> 00:16:43,259 good pattern. Right? Like, I don't have to 464 00:16:43,259 --> 00:16:44,320 release control 465 00:16:45,175 --> 00:16:47,175 entirely. I didn't end up staying at a 466 00:16:47,175 --> 00:16:49,095 hotel that I would prefer to stay at 467 00:16:49,095 --> 00:16:49,835 in Spain. 468 00:16:51,415 --> 00:16:53,274 But I now have context 469 00:16:53,735 --> 00:16:55,195 of when it is appropriate 470 00:16:56,295 --> 00:16:57,035 to apply 471 00:16:57,654 --> 00:16:59,995 control versus before it was in 472 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:01,299 every moment, 473 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,740 and that's liberating. And for anyone listening that 474 00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:06,579 has control as a pattern, 475 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,279 often doesn't mean that you're just never gonna 476 00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:11,920 organize things and plan things. No. It's just 477 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,839 you learn that there is a time and 478 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:15,220 place for that pattern 479 00:17:15,674 --> 00:17:17,914 to serve you. Especially if it's not a 480 00:17:17,914 --> 00:17:20,394 pattern that is positive, you absolutely don't need 481 00:17:20,394 --> 00:17:22,235 to keep it going all the time. It's 482 00:17:22,235 --> 00:17:23,995 not keeping you safe. It's actually preventing you 483 00:17:23,995 --> 00:17:26,795 from living a rich life. Yeah. The power 484 00:17:26,795 --> 00:17:29,529 of choice and the agency to choose when 485 00:17:29,529 --> 00:17:32,409 to engage control and when not to. Yes. 486 00:17:32,409 --> 00:17:34,490 I didn't know I had that. So this 487 00:17:34,490 --> 00:17:36,329 is great. I love you and the motel 488 00:17:36,329 --> 00:17:38,490 there and making the best of it. Then 489 00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:40,375 you go back to your life, and you 490 00:17:40,375 --> 00:17:42,054 and I talked at the beginning here because 491 00:17:42,054 --> 00:17:44,554 you had a different integration experience 492 00:17:44,855 --> 00:17:45,595 after that 493 00:17:47,015 --> 00:17:50,214 that wasn't all roses and wonder. There were 494 00:17:50,214 --> 00:17:50,954 some struggles. 495 00:17:51,494 --> 00:17:53,414 Share a little bit about how hard things 496 00:17:53,414 --> 00:17:55,309 were. My integration 497 00:17:56,089 --> 00:17:56,990 from Hoffman 498 00:17:57,529 --> 00:17:58,029 was 499 00:17:58,809 --> 00:18:00,109 not what I was expecting. 500 00:18:00,970 --> 00:18:03,609 At first, I was very worried. I thought 501 00:18:03,609 --> 00:18:06,105 to myself, like, did I not integrate correctly? 502 00:18:06,265 --> 00:18:09,065 I remember, like, I would reread the booklet 503 00:18:09,065 --> 00:18:10,845 that you gave us and the 504 00:18:11,224 --> 00:18:13,785 binder, and I was like, am I, like, 505 00:18:13,785 --> 00:18:16,365 missing something? Because this sucks. 506 00:18:17,224 --> 00:18:18,444 With an old transparency. 507 00:18:19,224 --> 00:18:21,244 I really had a hard month 508 00:18:21,829 --> 00:18:23,609 back in my first month. 509 00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:25,369 I had a great first week, 510 00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:28,089 but I wasn't prepared emotionally 511 00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:30,170 for the exhaustion. 512 00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:31,369 I was 513 00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:33,450 physically and emotionally 514 00:18:34,414 --> 00:18:36,335 the most exhausted I've ever been in my 515 00:18:36,335 --> 00:18:38,815 whole life coming back from Hoffman. I was 516 00:18:38,815 --> 00:18:40,275 sleeping twelve hours. 517 00:18:41,054 --> 00:18:43,315 I mean, really, really, really 518 00:18:43,615 --> 00:18:45,154 debilitated by fatigue. 519 00:18:45,615 --> 00:18:48,480 And my body started to respond in in 520 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,660 very weird ways. Like, I developed 521 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:54,400 plantar fasciitis in my foot. Like, these very 522 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,200 weird ailments that I'd never ever had, I 523 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,299 developed. I had a stye in my eye, 524 00:18:59,679 --> 00:19:01,779 and it was almost like I was physically 525 00:19:01,919 --> 00:19:02,419 purging 526 00:19:03,605 --> 00:19:06,085 what I had done at Hoffman, and that 527 00:19:06,085 --> 00:19:07,845 was what I wasn't prepared for. I mean, 528 00:19:07,845 --> 00:19:09,845 I listened to an episode of, Rick Rubin's 529 00:19:09,845 --> 00:19:12,164 podcast. I'm I believe it was the founder 530 00:19:12,164 --> 00:19:14,244 of Tom's, talks about how he lost, like, 531 00:19:14,244 --> 00:19:15,845 20 or 30 pounds when he got back 532 00:19:15,845 --> 00:19:17,384 from Hoffman without trying. 533 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,259 That was me in, like, a physical purging. 534 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,480 My body was, like, breaking down all over 535 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,400 the place in ways that it never had. 536 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,559 I mean, my sister would be like, what 537 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:29,519 is happening? I don't know. I run marathons. 538 00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:31,539 Like, I'm somebody who's very physically 539 00:19:32,115 --> 00:19:34,194 connected, and I was falling apart all over 540 00:19:34,194 --> 00:19:36,775 the place. It was truly my body. Like, 541 00:19:36,835 --> 00:19:38,994 I would start profusely sweating, and I'm not 542 00:19:38,994 --> 00:19:41,075 a sweater famously. Like, out of nowhere. I 543 00:19:41,075 --> 00:19:43,075 was like, am I going through menopause? I'm 544 00:19:43,075 --> 00:19:45,734 30, 40 years old. Like, what is happening? 545 00:19:46,429 --> 00:19:49,410 But it made my first month really tough. 546 00:19:50,349 --> 00:19:51,490 I also struggled 547 00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:52,529 with 548 00:19:53,309 --> 00:19:56,109 the line of how much I wanted to 549 00:19:56,109 --> 00:19:56,609 share 550 00:19:57,069 --> 00:19:57,809 with people. 551 00:19:59,195 --> 00:19:59,695 I 552 00:20:00,075 --> 00:20:02,414 feel so blessed and grateful that I have 553 00:20:02,474 --> 00:20:03,994 so many people in my life that are 554 00:20:03,994 --> 00:20:04,815 very engaged, 555 00:20:05,275 --> 00:20:07,035 that wanted to know how it went, that 556 00:20:07,035 --> 00:20:09,275 were checking in on me. But I had 557 00:20:09,275 --> 00:20:11,375 to learn that I actually am not responsible 558 00:20:12,075 --> 00:20:12,815 for making 559 00:20:13,450 --> 00:20:15,630 them feel better about my process. 560 00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:19,710 And that's a really interesting experience with people. 561 00:20:19,850 --> 00:20:21,610 I mean, even my dad, we've had very 562 00:20:21,610 --> 00:20:23,610 honest conversations. He knows that I'm doing the 563 00:20:23,610 --> 00:20:25,690 podcast. My dad had this fear that I 564 00:20:25,690 --> 00:20:27,150 would hate him after Hoffman. 565 00:20:27,634 --> 00:20:29,234 So he was checking in on me over 566 00:20:29,234 --> 00:20:30,774 and over and over and over again 567 00:20:31,315 --> 00:20:31,974 to see 568 00:20:32,994 --> 00:20:35,474 if I still liked him. And that was 569 00:20:35,474 --> 00:20:35,974 exhausting 570 00:20:36,514 --> 00:20:38,674 for me, actually, to have to manage someone 571 00:20:38,674 --> 00:20:40,774 else's emotions about my process. 572 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,320 And same with friends, friends who were like 573 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,000 my husband. Everyone was like, what is she 574 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,200 gonna be like? Like, how do we 575 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,059 and that was 576 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,400 so exhausting. It was actually very suffocating. I 577 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,460 felt really 578 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:53,420 trapped 579 00:20:54,194 --> 00:20:55,414 and unable 580 00:20:55,714 --> 00:20:56,214 to 581 00:20:56,835 --> 00:20:58,214 settle into the work. 582 00:20:58,674 --> 00:20:59,875 One of the things I worked on in 583 00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:02,115 Hoffman was boundaries. Right? Saying to people, I 584 00:21:02,115 --> 00:21:03,954 actually don't have to hold how you feel 585 00:21:03,954 --> 00:21:05,015 about my process. 586 00:21:05,794 --> 00:21:07,315 I'll tell you the story once. I'm never 587 00:21:07,315 --> 00:21:08,470 gonna talk about it again. It's what I 588 00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:09,990 would say to one of my girlfriends. I 589 00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:10,650 was like 590 00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:12,549 I had at one point, I said, let's 591 00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:14,730 all do dinner and a bunch of girlfriends. 592 00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:16,150 We got together, and I was like, I'm 593 00:21:16,150 --> 00:21:18,650 telling you about my hotbed process one time. 594 00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:20,970 All six of you at once. 595 00:21:21,505 --> 00:21:23,345 And that felt important to you. Right? So 596 00:21:23,345 --> 00:21:25,424 you wouldn't have to repeat the story setting 597 00:21:25,424 --> 00:21:26,164 that boundary? 598 00:21:26,784 --> 00:21:27,284 Exactly. 599 00:21:27,984 --> 00:21:30,625 Exactly. And I and until I started doing 600 00:21:30,625 --> 00:21:32,944 that, it just felt like I was getting 601 00:21:32,944 --> 00:21:34,784 pulled in a million directions, and I didn't 602 00:21:34,784 --> 00:21:36,625 have the energy. Right? I as I just 603 00:21:36,625 --> 00:21:38,380 shared, I was so exhausted. 604 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,480 So the combination of feeling like I needed 605 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,139 to share 606 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:44,599 and then not having the capacity to share 607 00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:46,859 made month one for me really hard. 608 00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:48,679 It was at the end of month one 609 00:21:48,679 --> 00:21:50,894 when I really was like, alright, Madison. Like, 610 00:21:51,055 --> 00:21:53,075 one of the things you've learned was boundaries 611 00:21:53,295 --> 00:21:53,795 and 612 00:21:54,255 --> 00:21:54,994 set them. 613 00:21:55,295 --> 00:21:57,055 Does it mean anything to have learned something 614 00:21:57,055 --> 00:21:59,634 if you're not gonna apply it? Set it. 615 00:21:59,934 --> 00:22:02,095 Set the boundaries of people. And I did. 616 00:22:02,095 --> 00:22:02,835 And everyone 617 00:22:03,134 --> 00:22:05,394 very much respected it. There was no one 618 00:22:05,855 --> 00:22:06,355 who 619 00:22:07,370 --> 00:22:10,009 didn't, to be honest, after the boundaries were 620 00:22:10,009 --> 00:22:11,930 set. I wanna slow it down here because 621 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:14,430 I think you're speaking to something that is 622 00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:17,309 super important when it comes to change. 623 00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:19,424 And that is this, we can 624 00:22:19,825 --> 00:22:22,565 learn the lesson of something. We can understand 625 00:22:23,105 --> 00:22:24,644 the importance of it. 626 00:22:25,025 --> 00:22:28,325 But then, I think life offers us 627 00:22:28,705 --> 00:22:30,005 a few more opportunities 628 00:22:30,625 --> 00:22:32,325 to see the cost of it. 629 00:22:33,099 --> 00:22:35,519 And so sometimes people think, oh, I've regressed. 630 00:22:35,579 --> 00:22:38,399 I've lost it. No. No. That's just life 631 00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:41,440 and your spirit in a way showing you 632 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,919 the cost of not setting those boundaries 633 00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:46,220 so that then you can really make the 634 00:22:46,220 --> 00:22:46,720 decision 635 00:22:47,099 --> 00:22:47,599 wholeheartedly. 636 00:22:48,464 --> 00:22:49,365 Yeah. Absolutely. 637 00:22:49,904 --> 00:22:50,565 And, also, 638 00:22:51,265 --> 00:22:52,964 why aren't you setting that boundary? 639 00:22:53,664 --> 00:22:55,105 You know, the way we talk about boundary 640 00:22:55,105 --> 00:22:57,025 setting, especially in this country, Christian, like a 641 00:22:57,025 --> 00:22:59,424 western world, it's like, set the boundary you 642 00:22:59,424 --> 00:23:01,730 hear all the time. And you're like, what 643 00:23:01,730 --> 00:23:02,990 the fuck does that mean? 644 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:05,610 Not only, like, how do I do it, 645 00:23:05,610 --> 00:23:06,430 but why? 646 00:23:07,210 --> 00:23:09,049 Why do I need to set this boundary 647 00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:10,970 is something that I never really asked myself. 648 00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:12,490 I put a lot on my pressure to 649 00:23:12,490 --> 00:23:14,345 set the boundary, set the boundary. How do 650 00:23:14,345 --> 00:23:15,464 you set the boundary? But I was gonna 651 00:23:15,464 --> 00:23:17,545 send the text message that says, don't I'll 652 00:23:17,545 --> 00:23:19,705 tell you about Hoffman one time. Right? Like, 653 00:23:19,705 --> 00:23:20,525 that's the 654 00:23:20,904 --> 00:23:21,484 the formula. 655 00:23:21,945 --> 00:23:23,805 But the why is 656 00:23:24,345 --> 00:23:26,585 the unlock for me was getting to the 657 00:23:26,585 --> 00:23:28,265 point of the thirty day mark and being 658 00:23:28,265 --> 00:23:28,765 like, 659 00:23:29,089 --> 00:23:31,009 why I need to set the boundaries is 660 00:23:31,009 --> 00:23:33,890 so that I can recuperate and heal from 661 00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:35,730 this experience. Why I have to set the 662 00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:37,269 boundaries? Because I don't owe 663 00:23:37,570 --> 00:23:40,930 anyone anything. I don't have to hold someone 664 00:23:40,930 --> 00:23:43,190 else's emotions about my experience. 665 00:23:43,634 --> 00:23:45,714 Why do I set this boundary? Because I 666 00:23:45,714 --> 00:23:48,195 want to. Goddamn it. You know what I 667 00:23:48,195 --> 00:23:49,015 mean? Like, 668 00:23:49,394 --> 00:23:51,335 that's also more than enough. 669 00:23:52,195 --> 00:23:53,795 But it took me thirty days to get 670 00:23:53,795 --> 00:23:56,214 to that awareness of asking myself 671 00:23:56,595 --> 00:23:57,095 why. 672 00:23:58,009 --> 00:24:00,329 I think I also felt in my group 673 00:24:00,329 --> 00:24:00,829 chat, 674 00:24:01,289 --> 00:24:03,389 you know, people were having these, like, beautiful 675 00:24:03,929 --> 00:24:04,829 months back, 676 00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:06,190 and 677 00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:08,649 some people weren't. Right? There there were one 678 00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:10,009 there are a lot of people out of 679 00:24:10,009 --> 00:24:12,325 my 28 who were struggling month one. And 680 00:24:12,325 --> 00:24:13,684 there are people who are doing so well 681 00:24:13,684 --> 00:24:14,505 month one. 682 00:24:15,365 --> 00:24:17,285 It's just been also interesting to see how, 683 00:24:17,285 --> 00:24:20,085 like, that's also shifted. So I've had very 684 00:24:20,325 --> 00:24:22,404 I'm now I'm three months at four months 685 00:24:22,404 --> 00:24:23,144 at a Hoffman, 686 00:24:23,525 --> 00:24:24,025 and 687 00:24:25,525 --> 00:24:27,384 the past two months have been amazing. 688 00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:31,259 I feel wonderful. It's been the work feels 689 00:24:31,259 --> 00:24:33,099 like it's set in. I do my quad 690 00:24:33,099 --> 00:24:35,340 check every single day. To my right, I 691 00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:37,980 actually have, like, a Hoffman Shrine where I 692 00:24:37,980 --> 00:24:39,759 even have my damn rucalas. 693 00:24:40,454 --> 00:24:40,954 I 694 00:24:41,494 --> 00:24:43,494 saved the pop drops. I saved a couple 695 00:24:43,494 --> 00:24:45,494 of them. And I have this, like, little 696 00:24:45,494 --> 00:24:47,434 Hoffman shrine that I go to every morning 697 00:24:47,575 --> 00:24:49,575 because it's a visual reminder for me to 698 00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:51,994 do the practice. So I'm a visual learner, 699 00:24:52,134 --> 00:24:54,694 and seeing this Hoffman Shrine every day is, 700 00:24:54,694 --> 00:24:57,099 like, quad check for me. So it's the 701 00:24:57,099 --> 00:24:58,779 unlock I need to make sure I do 702 00:24:58,779 --> 00:25:00,460 it. I don't just rely on memory to 703 00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:01,119 do it. 704 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,019 But, yeah, it took it took time. It 705 00:25:03,019 --> 00:25:04,700 took time to get here, but it's there. 706 00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:06,779 The work just because you have a rocky 707 00:25:06,779 --> 00:25:07,279 return 708 00:25:07,945 --> 00:25:09,325 doesn't mean it didn't work. 709 00:25:09,865 --> 00:25:11,484 I feel like that's a really important 710 00:25:11,945 --> 00:25:12,924 note for people. 711 00:25:13,785 --> 00:25:16,744 Yeah. What meaning do we make of a 712 00:25:16,744 --> 00:25:20,125 rocky return? And can we just normalize 713 00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:24,410 that that rocky return is part of what 714 00:25:24,410 --> 00:25:27,230 it means to learn and grow post process? 715 00:25:27,769 --> 00:25:29,950 What's it like to sit here having 716 00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:33,710 navigated this thread, your journey, 717 00:25:34,654 --> 00:25:35,154 preprocess, 718 00:25:35,615 --> 00:25:38,034 all the ups and downs in the process, 719 00:25:38,654 --> 00:25:40,595 and then this kind of exhaustion 720 00:25:41,054 --> 00:25:41,554 postprocess, 721 00:25:41,934 --> 00:25:44,575 and then the clarity that came kind of 722 00:25:44,575 --> 00:25:46,575 as a result of the exhaustion and the 723 00:25:46,575 --> 00:25:47,075 connecting 724 00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:50,190 of the dots that that relates to boundaries 725 00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:51,069 and why 726 00:25:51,369 --> 00:25:53,130 you even need to set boundaries in the 727 00:25:53,130 --> 00:25:55,130 first place. And then to be on the 728 00:25:55,130 --> 00:25:57,609 other side of that part of being human 729 00:25:57,609 --> 00:26:00,269 is having other experiences where you learn 730 00:26:00,765 --> 00:26:01,265 different 731 00:26:01,805 --> 00:26:03,664 things. But in a way, you navigated 732 00:26:04,205 --> 00:26:06,545 one big, huge thing, 733 00:26:07,085 --> 00:26:09,345 and it has a through line to childhood. 734 00:26:10,205 --> 00:26:12,365 What's it like to sit in this place 735 00:26:12,365 --> 00:26:15,325 four months out and have the serenity, the 736 00:26:15,325 --> 00:26:15,825 peace? 737 00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:17,769 That's a big question. 738 00:26:18,309 --> 00:26:18,809 And 739 00:26:20,069 --> 00:26:21,849 one I really appreciate. Thank you. 740 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:24,089 I recently have 741 00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:25,690 come to this, 742 00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:28,569 I guess, you could say, like, a life 743 00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:31,849 because I've truly never felt 744 00:26:32,355 --> 00:26:35,174 better. I've never felt more confident, more self 745 00:26:35,394 --> 00:26:36,855 sufficient, more secure. 746 00:26:37,234 --> 00:26:39,474 But more than anything, just like the depth 747 00:26:39,474 --> 00:26:41,015 of trust I have 748 00:26:41,875 --> 00:26:44,434 in life working in my favor has really 749 00:26:44,434 --> 00:26:44,934 clicked 750 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,940 for the first time. 751 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,359 The depth of trust you have that life 752 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,819 will work in your favor. 753 00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:54,380 Yes. I've known that 754 00:26:55,319 --> 00:26:57,819 spiritually, intellectually, emotionally my whole life. 755 00:26:58,294 --> 00:26:59,974 Both my my mom. My dad is a 756 00:26:59,974 --> 00:27:02,615 very spiritual person. Very, very, very spiritual person. 757 00:27:02,615 --> 00:27:03,115 So 758 00:27:03,894 --> 00:27:04,394 that 759 00:27:05,015 --> 00:27:06,714 belief system has been 760 00:27:07,494 --> 00:27:08,634 shared and ingrained 761 00:27:09,015 --> 00:27:09,914 in my mind 762 00:27:10,615 --> 00:27:11,434 since childhood, 763 00:27:11,974 --> 00:27:13,515 but it did not click 764 00:27:14,420 --> 00:27:14,920 until 765 00:27:15,380 --> 00:27:17,859 post Hoffman in the past couple months. It's 766 00:27:17,859 --> 00:27:21,220 like a physical, emotional shift of settling of, 767 00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:21,720 like, 768 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,920 ah, that's what my dad has always meant. 769 00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:26,039 Is that 770 00:27:26,444 --> 00:27:28,144 God, the universe, whomever, 771 00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:31,724 whatever your belief system is, will not take 772 00:27:31,724 --> 00:27:32,464 you places 773 00:27:33,404 --> 00:27:35,884 unless there is another side of it. Right? 774 00:27:35,884 --> 00:27:37,884 Like, I realized at a young age, I 775 00:27:37,884 --> 00:27:40,259 had to make a lot of life sacrifices 776 00:27:40,259 --> 00:27:42,359 that young people normally don't have to do. 777 00:27:42,419 --> 00:27:43,940 I'm very open about this. I had a 778 00:27:43,940 --> 00:27:45,779 very severe eating disorder when I was in 779 00:27:45,779 --> 00:27:47,000 high school and in college, 780 00:27:47,539 --> 00:27:48,759 which meant my 781 00:27:49,539 --> 00:27:52,440 early twenties were spent in recovery 782 00:27:52,980 --> 00:27:53,480 and, 783 00:27:53,804 --> 00:27:55,424 you know, being sober, curious, 784 00:27:55,964 --> 00:27:56,464 and 785 00:27:57,244 --> 00:27:58,384 really dedicating 786 00:27:58,924 --> 00:27:59,424 myself 787 00:27:59,884 --> 00:28:02,365 to healing my mind, body, and spirit. And 788 00:28:02,365 --> 00:28:04,044 while I watched so many people in their 789 00:28:04,044 --> 00:28:04,865 early twenties 790 00:28:05,404 --> 00:28:07,619 party and go off and have the best 791 00:28:07,619 --> 00:28:09,799 time, I had to be a very serious 792 00:28:10,339 --> 00:28:10,839 adult. 793 00:28:11,380 --> 00:28:12,680 And I didn't understand 794 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:15,299 why I went through all of that. I 795 00:28:15,299 --> 00:28:16,599 true I truly didn't. 796 00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:18,660 But now I do because I know that 797 00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:21,140 if I had not started that work, then 798 00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:22,680 I would never be here 799 00:28:23,484 --> 00:28:23,984 ever. 800 00:28:25,085 --> 00:28:27,325 And I had a friend who said something 801 00:28:27,325 --> 00:28:29,664 to me a couple weeks ago that really 802 00:28:30,444 --> 00:28:32,605 I've been thinking about a lot. He said 803 00:28:32,605 --> 00:28:33,105 that 804 00:28:33,644 --> 00:28:35,505 he always tells his kids, 805 00:28:36,409 --> 00:28:39,049 go enjoy your life. I've got your back. 806 00:28:39,049 --> 00:28:40,650 Go enjoy your life. I've got your back. 807 00:28:40,650 --> 00:28:42,990 And his kids say, thanks, dad. Of course. 808 00:28:43,210 --> 00:28:45,130 And he said it wasn't until he realized, 809 00:28:45,130 --> 00:28:47,450 like, that's what the universe or God says 810 00:28:47,450 --> 00:28:48,109 to him. 811 00:28:49,095 --> 00:28:51,914 Go enjoy your life. I've got your back. 812 00:28:52,375 --> 00:28:54,694 He can say it to his kids because 813 00:28:54,694 --> 00:28:56,694 he realized the universe is saying it to 814 00:28:56,694 --> 00:28:59,974 him. Yes. That shift of, like, wait. Why 815 00:28:59,974 --> 00:29:02,529 didn't I think the universe was doing that 816 00:29:02,529 --> 00:29:04,210 for me? When he told me that, I 817 00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:05,830 was like, holy fuck. 818 00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:07,430 Yeah. 819 00:29:08,049 --> 00:29:10,529 That's the unlock for me post Hoffman. It's 820 00:29:10,529 --> 00:29:11,349 like realizing 821 00:29:11,809 --> 00:29:12,309 that, 822 00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:14,710 god, the universe, whomever 823 00:29:15,244 --> 00:29:18,785 has your back, go enjoy your life, Madison. 824 00:29:20,045 --> 00:29:20,945 Do this work. 825 00:29:21,404 --> 00:29:24,625 Commit to this process and enjoy your life. 826 00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:28,465 I can't say in thirty four years, 827 00:29:29,085 --> 00:29:31,299 I have enjoyed my life in the way 828 00:29:31,299 --> 00:29:32,440 that I do now. 829 00:29:32,980 --> 00:29:34,900 That is the shift. That's the shift post 830 00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:35,400 Hoffman. 831 00:29:35,859 --> 00:29:37,619 It's the shift of doing this work. It's 832 00:29:37,619 --> 00:29:39,859 the shift of my life. It's not just 833 00:29:39,859 --> 00:29:42,580 a mindset. There's a cellular sense of it. 834 00:29:42,580 --> 00:29:44,580 As you talk about, I can feel it 835 00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:46,200 in your body. Yes. 836 00:29:46,875 --> 00:29:48,734 Enjoy your life, Madison. That's 837 00:29:49,195 --> 00:29:50,494 all it's why everything 838 00:29:50,954 --> 00:29:52,494 has led up to this moment. 839 00:29:52,875 --> 00:29:54,795 If some people listening are saying, yeah, I 840 00:29:54,795 --> 00:29:56,315 wish I could enjoy it, but I have 841 00:29:56,315 --> 00:29:58,875 so much stress and work and she doesn't 842 00:29:58,875 --> 00:30:02,095 understand if only she had my life. What's 843 00:30:02,250 --> 00:30:03,230 what's your reaction 844 00:30:04,009 --> 00:30:04,509 to 845 00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:05,470 circumstances 846 00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:08,089 getting in the way of really enjoying your 847 00:30:08,089 --> 00:30:08,589 life? 848 00:30:08,890 --> 00:30:10,329 Probably, the first thing I would say is, 849 00:30:10,329 --> 00:30:12,170 like, I exist as a black woman in 850 00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:15,484 America. So, please, let me tell you. I'm 851 00:30:15,484 --> 00:30:17,244 enjoying my life, and I also have a 852 00:30:17,244 --> 00:30:19,164 lot of systemic barriers that I have to 853 00:30:19,164 --> 00:30:19,664 face 854 00:30:19,965 --> 00:30:21,424 every single damn day. 855 00:30:21,805 --> 00:30:23,585 That's just the truth. So 856 00:30:24,285 --> 00:30:27,505 I think that pain and suffering is relative, 857 00:30:28,525 --> 00:30:29,025 and 858 00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:32,440 I think we can hold two truths at 859 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,440 the same time. I can hold the reality 860 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,980 that exists as a black woman 861 00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:39,559 in America, and there's systemic barriers and pains 862 00:30:39,559 --> 00:30:42,599 and challenges and discrimination and prejudice that I 863 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:44,140 will experience. I do experience. 864 00:30:45,065 --> 00:30:45,884 And, also, 865 00:30:46,664 --> 00:30:48,204 I can enjoy my life. 866 00:30:48,505 --> 00:30:50,265 These two things can exist at the same 867 00:30:50,265 --> 00:30:52,125 time. And I think for anyone struggling 868 00:30:52,505 --> 00:30:55,464 with whatever, systemic barrier or getting a divorce 869 00:30:55,464 --> 00:30:58,105 or a new parent or hating your job, 870 00:30:58,105 --> 00:31:00,950 like, that nuance that two things can exist 871 00:31:00,950 --> 00:31:03,849 at once is so damn important. Is that 872 00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:06,549 you can be struggling with something very real 873 00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:08,730 to you and don't measure it against whatever 874 00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:10,329 anyone else is struggling with. 875 00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:11,210 And 876 00:31:12,424 --> 00:31:14,684 there is a path that you can choose 877 00:31:15,224 --> 00:31:16,924 through work, not overnight, 878 00:31:17,704 --> 00:31:19,704 where you can learn and begin to try 879 00:31:19,704 --> 00:31:21,464 to find ways to enjoy your life. That's 880 00:31:21,464 --> 00:31:22,684 what I would say back. 881 00:31:22,984 --> 00:31:25,144 So good. I have to ask about your 882 00:31:25,144 --> 00:31:25,890 dad for a second 883 00:31:27,170 --> 00:31:29,670 because I'm thinking about him worrying about whether 884 00:31:30,049 --> 00:31:31,190 you're gonna hate him. As the spiritual 885 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:32,710 guy who gave you that, 886 00:31:33,009 --> 00:31:34,609 did you ever get a chance to go 887 00:31:34,609 --> 00:31:38,049 back and reconnect with him, and has he 888 00:31:38,049 --> 00:31:38,549 been 889 00:31:39,304 --> 00:31:41,545 transformed as a result of the work you 890 00:31:41,545 --> 00:31:42,045 did? 891 00:31:42,664 --> 00:31:44,525 He said he was really 892 00:31:45,065 --> 00:31:45,964 taken aback 893 00:31:46,424 --> 00:31:46,924 by 894 00:31:47,944 --> 00:31:48,444 me 895 00:31:49,144 --> 00:31:49,644 saying 896 00:31:50,025 --> 00:31:51,944 you know, following the script in my own 897 00:31:51,944 --> 00:31:53,085 way of of apologizing. 898 00:31:54,150 --> 00:31:56,150 That's one of the instructions, right, that you're 899 00:31:56,150 --> 00:31:58,150 given in when you call your parents is 900 00:31:58,150 --> 00:32:00,009 to take ownership and say I'm sorry. 901 00:32:00,390 --> 00:32:00,890 And 902 00:32:01,269 --> 00:32:02,650 he was shocked. 903 00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:06,070 I mean, my dad's the best, and he 904 00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:07,910 was like, oh, you don't owe me any 905 00:32:07,910 --> 00:32:08,410 apology, 906 00:32:08,994 --> 00:32:11,015 any at all. He didn't feel 907 00:32:11,634 --> 00:32:13,714 that it was warranted or needed, but he 908 00:32:13,714 --> 00:32:16,214 was if anything, he just said he felt 909 00:32:16,835 --> 00:32:20,274 an enormous sense of pride and that I 910 00:32:20,274 --> 00:32:22,755 had reached a place of selflessness where I 911 00:32:22,755 --> 00:32:23,575 could apologize 912 00:32:24,919 --> 00:32:26,460 without an if, and, and but. 913 00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:28,440 And so while the he didn't think the 914 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,440 apology was necessary as a parent, he said 915 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,279 he was a very proud moment that his 916 00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:35,000 kid had learned and developed the capacity to 917 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,500 apologize 918 00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:37,099 without 919 00:32:37,724 --> 00:32:38,224 anything 920 00:32:38,765 --> 00:32:40,464 after. And that for him was, like, 921 00:32:40,924 --> 00:32:43,565 enormously grateful for the process for for that 922 00:32:43,565 --> 00:32:44,065 specifically. 923 00:32:44,365 --> 00:32:45,884 And he said he was very a very 924 00:32:45,884 --> 00:32:47,184 proud dad in that moment. 925 00:32:47,565 --> 00:32:48,944 That is so touching. 926 00:32:49,325 --> 00:32:51,505 I I might just feel my heart open 927 00:32:51,565 --> 00:32:54,330 to that moment between you and he post 928 00:32:54,330 --> 00:32:54,830 process. 929 00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:57,529 Yeah. Yeah. And it was very emotionally different. 930 00:32:57,529 --> 00:32:58,670 Right? Like, I was 931 00:32:59,369 --> 00:33:01,930 I wasn't expecting it to impact him so 932 00:33:01,930 --> 00:33:03,369 much. I'm not a parent. I don't have 933 00:33:03,369 --> 00:33:05,289 kids yet. So I don't know what that 934 00:33:05,289 --> 00:33:07,529 must feel like to instill a value in 935 00:33:07,529 --> 00:33:08,269 your child 936 00:33:08,704 --> 00:33:10,164 and then see it expressed 937 00:33:10,625 --> 00:33:12,724 at some point. I'm sure it's transformative. 938 00:33:13,345 --> 00:33:16,005 But he was just like, wow. How cool. 939 00:33:16,625 --> 00:33:18,384 I love the way you frame that, to 940 00:33:18,384 --> 00:33:20,565 instill a value in your child. 941 00:33:20,910 --> 00:33:22,830 And then as they grow up to be 942 00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:25,490 an adult, see it expressed back to you. 943 00:33:26,109 --> 00:33:28,670 That's such a good way of framing what 944 00:33:28,670 --> 00:33:29,650 he experienced. 945 00:33:30,269 --> 00:33:31,490 Yeah. And and also, 946 00:33:31,789 --> 00:33:33,630 he has also shared that there are things 947 00:33:34,414 --> 00:33:36,575 you know, he's very Christian. Neither of us 948 00:33:36,575 --> 00:33:39,615 are particularly religious people. We're spiritual. We but, 949 00:33:39,615 --> 00:33:41,054 no, we don't go to church where none 950 00:33:41,054 --> 00:33:43,154 of us have grasped onto Christianity. 951 00:33:43,454 --> 00:33:45,794 And that's an example for him of, like, 952 00:33:46,015 --> 00:33:48,894 values of value. He wanted his children to 953 00:33:48,894 --> 00:33:51,269 adopt, and they didn't. We were raised Christian, 954 00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:52,870 but once we became adults, we all were 955 00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:53,769 like, yeah, whatever. 956 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:56,070 And that's you know, he's like, sometimes that 957 00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:58,330 sticks with your kids and sometimes it doesn't. 958 00:33:58,549 --> 00:34:00,150 And he's like, that's, you know, one of 959 00:34:00,150 --> 00:34:02,230 the examples for him. So this value in 960 00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:04,490 particular, the value to be able to apologize, 961 00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:05,289 to take responsibility 962 00:34:06,525 --> 00:34:08,445 for him, you know, that's something he has 963 00:34:08,445 --> 00:34:10,045 very much instilled in us, and that was 964 00:34:10,045 --> 00:34:11,965 one that he got to experience and see 965 00:34:11,965 --> 00:34:12,465 expressed. 966 00:34:13,164 --> 00:34:14,844 You know, now he's, like, calling my siblings, 967 00:34:14,844 --> 00:34:15,965 and he's like, you guys gotta go to 968 00:34:15,965 --> 00:34:17,744 Hoffman. What are you guys going on? 969 00:34:19,329 --> 00:34:21,909 Madison, you have so much aliveness, 970 00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:25,409 so much life force coursing through you. What's 971 00:34:25,409 --> 00:34:28,230 next for you, like, as you step forward 972 00:34:28,929 --> 00:34:31,250 into your life? Where's it where's all this 973 00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:32,150 energy going? 974 00:34:32,574 --> 00:34:35,054 Oh my gosh. So many things. So many 975 00:34:35,054 --> 00:34:35,554 things. 976 00:34:36,574 --> 00:34:38,255 I'm doing a lot of the work that 977 00:34:38,255 --> 00:34:39,235 I stopped doing. 978 00:34:39,535 --> 00:34:41,054 The company I closed, I had a creative 979 00:34:41,054 --> 00:34:41,554 agency. 980 00:34:42,094 --> 00:34:44,255 I am a writer. I'm a creative director. 981 00:34:44,255 --> 00:34:46,019 I'm a strategist, and I built this company 982 00:34:46,019 --> 00:34:47,940 that had 15 people and I became an 983 00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:49,880 operator. And I was no longer 984 00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:51,699 doing the work that I loved, and that 985 00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:52,980 was one of the reasons why I closed 986 00:34:52,980 --> 00:34:55,219 it. It's because I felt that my days 987 00:34:55,219 --> 00:34:57,619 were managing people and talking to lawyers and 988 00:34:57,619 --> 00:34:59,460 dealing with health insurance and all of this 989 00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:00,519 bullshit that I 990 00:35:00,855 --> 00:35:01,355 hated. 991 00:35:01,974 --> 00:35:05,094 What's been amazing is that in now being 992 00:35:05,094 --> 00:35:05,675 an individual 993 00:35:06,135 --> 00:35:08,775 and going back out into being a creative 994 00:35:08,775 --> 00:35:11,494 director again, I've had to reintroduce myself to 995 00:35:11,494 --> 00:35:14,329 people. I've had to, you know, inform people 996 00:35:14,329 --> 00:35:16,250 that I no longer have a 15 person 997 00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:18,329 team. Like, I'm now producing and creative directing 998 00:35:18,329 --> 00:35:19,550 the shoots on my own. 999 00:35:19,929 --> 00:35:22,809 And the response back has been profound and 1000 00:35:22,809 --> 00:35:24,809 people are like, welcome back. We missed you. 1001 00:35:24,809 --> 00:35:26,425 Like, isn't it so much better not having 1002 00:35:26,425 --> 00:35:27,704 all these people work for you? And I'm 1003 00:35:27,704 --> 00:35:30,105 like, yes. Then no one talks about the 1004 00:35:30,105 --> 00:35:32,824 bullshit of having employees. I mean, I love 1005 00:35:32,824 --> 00:35:35,085 it, but, like, jeez. It's it's so 1006 00:35:35,385 --> 00:35:36,204 much work. 1007 00:35:36,744 --> 00:35:38,880 And so the energy right now is, like, 1008 00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:42,099 back into the creative work as an individual. 1009 00:35:42,559 --> 00:35:44,960 And that has been, as you can see 1010 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,699 and hear in my voice, like, healing, rewarding. 1011 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,859 I just got back from 1012 00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:52,484 a shoot in LA yesterday. Like, it just 1013 00:35:52,484 --> 00:35:54,644 feels good to be back into doing what 1014 00:35:54,644 --> 00:35:55,384 I enjoy 1015 00:35:56,324 --> 00:35:58,984 and no longer doing what the world expected 1016 00:35:59,045 --> 00:35:59,704 of me 1017 00:36:00,005 --> 00:36:02,505 because, you know, here I was super successful 1018 00:36:02,644 --> 00:36:03,144 and, 1019 00:36:03,605 --> 00:36:04,824 you know, I was like, 1020 00:36:05,125 --> 00:36:06,724 I god. I mean, I achieved 1021 00:36:07,309 --> 00:36:08,829 I look back on my twenties, and I'm 1022 00:36:08,829 --> 00:36:09,809 like, oh my gosh. 1023 00:36:10,429 --> 00:36:12,530 I just worked so hard. 1024 00:36:12,829 --> 00:36:14,590 You know, I got every damn award that 1025 00:36:14,590 --> 00:36:17,070 you could possibly get in marketing and design 1026 00:36:17,070 --> 00:36:18,670 by the age of 29, and I was 1027 00:36:18,670 --> 00:36:19,170 miserable. 1028 00:36:20,054 --> 00:36:21,574 Now I don't care about these awards at 1029 00:36:21,574 --> 00:36:22,074 all, 1030 00:36:22,375 --> 00:36:25,335 and I'm so much happier. It's so much 1031 00:36:25,335 --> 00:36:27,094 better. I tell people all the time because 1032 00:36:27,094 --> 00:36:28,214 I get a lot of people who reach 1033 00:36:28,214 --> 00:36:29,675 out to me. This is for 1034 00:36:30,295 --> 00:36:32,534 anyone listening under 30 because I got 30 1035 00:36:32,534 --> 00:36:34,534 under 30, the Forbes list when I was, 1036 00:36:34,534 --> 00:36:35,550 like, 28. 1037 00:36:35,789 --> 00:36:37,230 I get these emails a couple times a 1038 00:36:37,230 --> 00:36:39,170 year, and people are like, oh, Madison, like, 1039 00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:40,829 what did you do to get on 30 1040 00:36:40,829 --> 00:36:42,670 under 30? Like, how did you do it? 1041 00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:44,429 What did it feel like? And I always 1042 00:36:44,429 --> 00:36:45,789 respond with the same thing, which is that 1043 00:36:45,789 --> 00:36:47,594 it doesn't come with a million dollars. Like, 1044 00:36:47,755 --> 00:36:48,974 don't waste your time. 1045 00:36:49,434 --> 00:36:52,155 Just don't waste your time. It's just a 1046 00:36:52,155 --> 00:36:53,375 damn award. 1047 00:36:53,914 --> 00:36:57,275 It means nothing, truly. It means it feels 1048 00:36:57,275 --> 00:36:59,755 validating for the moment, and you get to 1049 00:36:59,755 --> 00:37:02,780 have, like, a couple days of bliss 1050 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,019 and acknowledgment and affirmation. 1051 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,079 And then you go right back to the 1052 00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:07,579 bullshit, 1053 00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:10,059 and nothing really changes. 1054 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,680 I just want people to know that. And 1055 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,599 this is the other caveat is that most 1056 00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:17,204 people in this world don't get the privilege 1057 00:37:17,585 --> 00:37:19,744 to experience or try to figure out what 1058 00:37:19,744 --> 00:37:21,984 they want and love to do. If you 1059 00:37:21,984 --> 00:37:23,664 are a part of the small percentage of 1060 00:37:23,664 --> 00:37:26,144 people in this world that has even the 1061 00:37:26,144 --> 00:37:28,164 capacity to think about this, 1062 00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:30,550 Please recognize that privilege. 1063 00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:32,769 Most people don't ever it's not even an 1064 00:37:32,769 --> 00:37:35,010 option for people to even think about. What 1065 00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:36,610 do I want to do with my life? 1066 00:37:36,610 --> 00:37:37,750 That to me is 1067 00:37:38,530 --> 00:37:40,449 something that I'm trying to get people to 1068 00:37:40,449 --> 00:37:42,130 recognize in the work that I'm doing now 1069 00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:44,385 is that, like, if you can think about 1070 00:37:44,385 --> 00:37:44,885 it, 1071 00:37:45,664 --> 00:37:47,445 you are a part of a small subset. 1072 00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:49,844 What are you gonna do about it then? 1073 00:37:50,224 --> 00:37:52,565 Seize the day on that privilege. 1074 00:37:53,105 --> 00:37:54,644 Don't waste it. Wow. 1075 00:37:55,150 --> 00:37:57,809 Have you thought about taking these insights 1076 00:37:58,590 --> 00:38:01,469 and helping others digest them so they don't 1077 00:38:01,469 --> 00:38:03,170 have to suffer the same pain? 1078 00:38:03,630 --> 00:38:05,170 I write about them in my substack. 1079 00:38:05,710 --> 00:38:08,349 So I have a public facing substack called 1080 00:38:08,349 --> 00:38:08,849 BERT. 1081 00:38:09,335 --> 00:38:10,934 I've been writing it for over a year 1082 00:38:10,934 --> 00:38:13,835 now, and the subject is for anyone tired 1083 00:38:13,894 --> 00:38:15,114 of faking fine. 1084 00:38:15,734 --> 00:38:18,074 And it's really about confronting 1085 00:38:18,775 --> 00:38:19,275 professional 1086 00:38:19,734 --> 00:38:20,234 burnout 1087 00:38:20,775 --> 00:38:21,674 and challenging 1088 00:38:22,839 --> 00:38:25,400 modern work and the systems that we all 1089 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,300 operate within 1090 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,239 that, especially in The United States, that force 1091 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,400 us to fall into these traps of the 1092 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,079 one that I fell into, which is total 1093 00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:34,300 enmeshment and identity 1094 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,364 conflict with your job. And so that's where 1095 00:38:37,364 --> 00:38:38,105 I really 1096 00:38:38,485 --> 00:38:40,664 talk about this and encourage people 1097 00:38:40,965 --> 00:38:42,724 to look at these systems and look at 1098 00:38:42,724 --> 00:38:45,525 themselves. And and unlock for me was that, 1099 00:38:45,525 --> 00:38:48,025 yes, it's the system. It's American capitalism, 1100 00:38:48,405 --> 00:38:51,125 but I'm also, like, an active participant in 1101 00:38:51,125 --> 00:38:51,625 this. 1102 00:38:52,269 --> 00:38:53,329 You know? Like, 1103 00:38:53,710 --> 00:38:56,750 hello. Like, Madison, like, you are fully, like, 1104 00:38:56,750 --> 00:38:58,769 fully a consumerist capitalist 1105 00:38:59,070 --> 00:39:00,829 whether or not you want to acknowledge it 1106 00:39:00,829 --> 00:39:02,590 or not. Like, there was a role that 1107 00:39:02,590 --> 00:39:04,590 I was playing in how I kept getting 1108 00:39:04,590 --> 00:39:05,490 burnt out 1109 00:39:05,934 --> 00:39:08,835 until I recognized that role. And it's behavioral 1110 00:39:08,894 --> 00:39:10,275 as much as it is psychological. 1111 00:39:10,894 --> 00:39:11,635 Our phones, 1112 00:39:12,414 --> 00:39:14,514 I think, really drive a lot of this 1113 00:39:14,734 --> 00:39:16,974 overwork and addiction. You know, people have, like, 1114 00:39:16,974 --> 00:39:18,815 a five minute coffee break, and they're on 1115 00:39:18,815 --> 00:39:20,880 Instagram on the damn toilet. I'm like, you're 1116 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,059 not helping yourself in that moment. 1117 00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:25,619 Right? Like, there's things that we are responsible 1118 00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:27,779 for as an individual within these systems 1119 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,159 that we can change. And so that's what 1120 00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:32,179 the sub stack really addresses and confronts. 1121 00:39:32,605 --> 00:39:34,525 I love that. And as you continue to 1122 00:39:34,525 --> 00:39:35,425 push forward 1123 00:39:36,045 --> 00:39:39,505 with this values alignment and not faking fine, 1124 00:39:39,805 --> 00:39:41,265 I love that, by the way, 1125 00:39:41,644 --> 00:39:44,625 send missives back from the front lines 1126 00:39:45,059 --> 00:39:48,260 so that people can continue to learn from 1127 00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:48,760 your 1128 00:39:49,219 --> 00:39:52,280 felt experiences. You have such a a beautiful 1129 00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:53,960 way of embodying 1130 00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:56,039 the words you're using. 1131 00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:57,400 Thank you, Drew. 1132 00:39:57,815 --> 00:39:59,974 What's it like to kind of reflect on 1133 00:39:59,974 --> 00:40:02,375 all of this, Madison, and remember your Hoffman 1134 00:40:02,375 --> 00:40:02,875 journey? 1135 00:40:03,255 --> 00:40:04,075 It's fresh. 1136 00:40:04,614 --> 00:40:06,614 I'm only a couple months out, so it's 1137 00:40:06,614 --> 00:40:09,675 still very much felt physically, emotionally, and spiritually 1138 00:40:09,735 --> 00:40:12,135 felt. But the overwhelming sense I feel is 1139 00:40:12,135 --> 00:40:12,635 gratitude. 1140 00:40:13,170 --> 00:40:15,969 That's truly what I feel more than anything 1141 00:40:15,969 --> 00:40:17,829 else when I look about at my process. 1142 00:40:18,769 --> 00:40:21,030 The process is not fun. Right? 1143 00:40:21,489 --> 00:40:23,170 I'm not like, oh, I wish I was 1144 00:40:23,170 --> 00:40:25,170 back there. No. There's part of me that's 1145 00:40:25,170 --> 00:40:26,389 happy that it's done. 1146 00:40:27,375 --> 00:40:29,155 But I am super grateful. 1147 00:40:29,775 --> 00:40:31,855 I've said this a thousand times to people 1148 00:40:31,855 --> 00:40:33,295 in my life, but it is the most 1149 00:40:33,295 --> 00:40:34,835 important thing I've ever done, 1150 00:40:35,375 --> 00:40:35,875 ever. 1151 00:40:36,175 --> 00:40:38,034 Nothing comes close. Nothing. 1152 00:40:38,494 --> 00:40:40,015 And I went to rehab for an eating 1153 00:40:40,015 --> 00:40:42,389 disorder at 19 years old, And I will 1154 00:40:42,389 --> 00:40:45,030 still say the Hoffman experience, the Hoffman process 1155 00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:46,789 was the most important thing I've ever done 1156 00:40:46,789 --> 00:40:49,109 by far. Oh, wow. Did you ever get 1157 00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:51,929 in touch with April or your college roommate? 1158 00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:53,670 Oh, yeah. I talked to April all the 1159 00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:54,170 time. 1160 00:40:54,875 --> 00:40:55,375 April 1161 00:40:55,835 --> 00:40:56,974 sent me a card 1162 00:40:57,434 --> 00:40:59,514 when I was at the Hoffman process, and 1163 00:40:59,514 --> 00:41:01,275 it said, I love you and I see 1164 00:41:01,275 --> 00:41:01,775 you, 1165 00:41:02,155 --> 00:41:02,655 April. 1166 00:41:03,675 --> 00:41:05,514 I can get emotionally when thinking about it. 1167 00:41:05,514 --> 00:41:07,275 I got it on, like, day four or 1168 00:41:07,275 --> 00:41:08,094 day five. 1169 00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:11,250 Just an amazing human being. Just to feel 1170 00:41:11,389 --> 00:41:14,109 so seen in the moment by somebody who'd 1171 00:41:14,109 --> 00:41:15,170 gone through that process. 1172 00:41:15,789 --> 00:41:17,329 She didn't even know I was in 1173 00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:20,190 the Connecticut one. She called to find out 1174 00:41:20,190 --> 00:41:21,809 which location I was in. 1175 00:41:22,554 --> 00:41:24,795 But, wow, like, that's also one of the 1176 00:41:24,795 --> 00:41:26,875 greatest gifts of Hoffman is that I've met 1177 00:41:26,875 --> 00:41:27,695 people who 1178 00:41:28,155 --> 00:41:31,114 I've instantly connect with on a just soul 1179 00:41:31,114 --> 00:41:32,494 level who've gone to Hoffman. 1180 00:41:33,114 --> 00:41:35,375 My sister was in a work meeting, and 1181 00:41:35,940 --> 00:41:38,179 a guy in her work meeting who she 1182 00:41:38,179 --> 00:41:39,000 barely knew 1183 00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:40,980 had said that he'd gone to Hoffman years 1184 00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:43,300 ago, but I'll call him Tom for the 1185 00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:45,699 sake of his privacy. She was like, this 1186 00:41:45,699 --> 00:41:47,699 guy Tom in my meeting says he loves 1187 00:41:47,699 --> 00:41:49,159 you and he sees you? 1188 00:41:52,795 --> 00:41:54,315 And I was like, I'll tell Tom I 1189 00:41:54,315 --> 00:41:55,855 love him and I see you 1190 00:41:56,394 --> 00:41:58,795 too. Literally have never met. But that's what 1191 00:41:58,795 --> 00:42:01,195 I mean gratitude. Like, that's this community, this 1192 00:42:01,195 --> 00:42:03,355 safety, this sense of, like, there's just an 1193 00:42:03,355 --> 00:42:05,775 whole world of people out there that 1194 00:42:06,339 --> 00:42:06,839 instantly 1195 00:42:07,139 --> 00:42:07,639 understand. 1196 00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:09,079 What a gift. 1197 00:42:09,539 --> 00:42:11,159 Madison, so grateful. 1198 00:42:11,859 --> 00:42:12,359 True. 1199 00:42:12,659 --> 00:42:15,219 So thank you for having me. Yeah. Thank 1200 00:42:15,219 --> 00:42:17,460 you for coming on and just letting it 1201 00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:19,155 rip. Letting it rip. 1202 00:42:19,474 --> 00:42:19,974 Yeah, 1203 00:42:20,355 --> 00:42:21,414 man. Why not? 1204 00:42:21,875 --> 00:42:23,635 As my dad would say, fuck it. One 1205 00:42:23,635 --> 00:42:24,135 Life. 1206 00:42:35,074 --> 00:42:36,829 Thank Thank you for listening to our podcast. 1207 00:42:36,969 --> 00:42:39,289 My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO 1208 00:42:39,289 --> 00:42:41,630 and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. 1209 00:42:42,089 --> 00:42:43,389 And I'm Razi Ingrassi, 1210 00:42:44,009 --> 00:42:47,049 Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute 1211 00:42:47,049 --> 00:42:47,549 Foundation. 1212 00:42:48,234 --> 00:42:51,135 Our mission is to provide people greater access 1213 00:42:51,195 --> 00:42:53,514 to the wisdom and power of love. In 1214 00:42:53,514 --> 00:42:56,094 themselves, in each other and in the world. 1215 00:42:56,315 --> 00:43:00,094 To find out more, please go to hoffmaninstitute.org.