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When you are there for a week with

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people not talking about the

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social hierarchy status of money or careers or

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politics, and you're not on your devices connected

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to an infinite supply of doom, scrolling,

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you tap into what does it mean to

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be human again? Like how to actually live

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with other human beings in a pursuit of

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love and self reflection and self fulfillment. And

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if for no other reason, just for that,

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just to be able to taste a glimpse

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of what it means to be fully alive

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as a human being.

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Welcome everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and

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this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius.

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It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute

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and its stories and anecdotes

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and people we interview

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about their life post process

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and how it lives in the world radiating

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love.

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Hey, everybody, welcome to the Hoffman past.

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Welcome to the Hoffman pasta TV show.

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We're gonna cook some great dishes.

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Jeff Orlowski

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Yang. Great to have you. Thank you. Thanks,

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Drew. So we're here at the beautiful eTown

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studios in Boulder, Colorado. What a great place,

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right? I love it here. Tell me a

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little bit about

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how

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you got to Hoffman

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and what happened

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in that moment in time where you were

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like, wait, what?

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She's doing what?

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So I,

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I feel like I had

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so many friends in my friend circle that

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had done Hoffman and had raved about it.

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And it was one of those things where

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there was this mystery and allure to it,

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and this

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people weren't telling me what the experience was,

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but just like, oh, you gotta do it.

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And but, literally, it was probably eight, nine

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people, 10 people that I had met that

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had all mentioned it and spoke so highly

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of it. And then a friend of mine

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had gone through the process,

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and he said he he had a friend

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that was willing to pay for any but

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if you were gonna have kids, she would

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pay

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for you to go attend the process

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just if you were in that position of,

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you know, partnership ready to have kids. And

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it just seems

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so out of the box to me. Like,

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just that notion that somebody would do that

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for somebody else took me by such surprise

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that I really was like, I I need

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to know what this thing is. Whether she

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knew them or not.

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Whether she knew them or not. I was

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like, if you're gonna have kids, I want

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you to experience this thing.

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And

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that became such a testament.

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Interestingly, it's anchored itself in my own mind

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around when I talk to other people. It's

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like, oh, you're you're gonna have kids. You

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should do this thing.

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You should go consider this thing.

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And my goodness, there's there's a gazillion directions

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we can go with the conversation. But just,

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like, seeing the

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the patterns and the habits that we inherit,

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that we are raised into, the stories that

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we have, the stories that we tell ourselves,

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and what are we holding on to, and

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what's serving us or not. Right? I think

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the ability,

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the invitation to really examine that and to

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examine what do you wanna hold on to

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or not,

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my experience was just truly a blessing, a

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total, total blessing.

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So you're stunned by this a little like,

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how is this possible? And then

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do you take her up on it even

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though you haven't met her? Or I felt

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like I didn't want to exhaust her resources

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in that way. I was like, I can

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cover this myself. I wanna do this, and

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I wanna have this experience

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just to know what this is about. I'm

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now 41 years old as of today.

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I had just gone through divorce before the

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process.

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Living what I've always felt was a very

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aligned

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life in many ways,

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and

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always kind of pursuing my hopes and goals

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and passions

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and figuring

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what is my path. And self growth has

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been a big part of my life. And,

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whenever there's an opportunity or space

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to

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reflect and grow and examine,

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that has only served me.

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And this was a more expensive way to

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explore that. And, you know, in retrospect, I

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don't doubt the expense.

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It was the time that was the biggest

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challenge. How do you carve out that much

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time? And the other thing that was advised

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to me from friends who had done the

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process already was you gotta make sure you

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honor that integration time. And I took an

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extra day off. I took Monday off and

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made that my travel day and had this

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three day weekend up in Petaluma.

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And it was really just like a perfect

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time and space to hold for myself for

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that.

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In hindsight, you're glad you did that? 100%.

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I'd tell that to everybody.

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Take two days extra if you can. Don't

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rush that reentry.

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And I think I'm also used

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to altered spaces and used to integration as

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a concept and honoring that how do you

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come back into your normal day to day

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life. And so I I think I had

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a familiarity

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with just that concept to be able to

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know in advance that I really wanted to

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honor that. When I hear you talk about

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yourself and personal growth, one of the things

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of the word that comes to my mind

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is curiosity.

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And you can't be a director

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of film

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and not be curious, can you? I would

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say that's probably one of my top values

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or personality traits or what have you is

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is that deep curiosity in things. Yeah. To

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a fault, maybe.

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I have too many interests. I have to

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constantly

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be focusing on prioritization and what do I

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wanna do because I have a gazillion things

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that I wanna do professionally and personally. So

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you take that curiosity. And for those listening,

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you have directed Chasing Coral, Chasing Ice,

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The Social Dilemma.

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I mean, just these incredible films, please. If

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you're listening,

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please see some of these films.

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Like how did you get there? Why

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Chasing Ice?

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I grew up wanting to be a photographer.

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My dad was a photographer. He used to

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photograph weddings back in the, you know, black

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and white film days. And we had a

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darkroom in in our house growing up. I

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grew up on Staten Island, and in our

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basement, we had a fully functioning black and

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white darkroom. I thought this is how everybody

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made photographs. Like, this was the only way

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to make photographs.

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And, grew up with this incredible blessing from

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my dad. And, you know, we had National

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Geographic come in every month, and that yellow

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rectangle was just this

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mesmerizing,

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enchanting

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lens to the rest of the world.

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I remember there's a period where I would

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get the magazines and I'd cut out the

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photographs and I'd post them

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up on one wall of my bedroom, and

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I just I only had so much space

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and they would kind of rotate through. And

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then just National Geographic spreads

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all across the wall, and it was just

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this wonder

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and joy and beauty and

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travel and exposure to diversity and culture in

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different worlds.

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And that was my dream job. I just

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wanted to go and travel the world and

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take pictures. When I was in college, I

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was doing photography. A friend of mine, one

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of my closest friends, got me into film.

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He told me that I needed to be

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working on film,

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And I was resistant at the time. I

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didn't see myself as a filmmaker. I wasn't

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interested in scripting or writing stuff. I considered

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myself much more of a documentarian,

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going out and capturing the real world. But

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went ahead and took this film workshop in

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college and fell in love with the medium

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and fell in love with the process. After

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graduating from college, those two worlds came together.

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It was working with a National Geographic photographer,

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James Balog, as he was trying to do

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time lapses of glaciers all around the world.

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So fresh out of college, we went to

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Greenland and Iceland and Alaska,

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and I was a videographer for him. And

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I was filming everything going on these adventures,

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just like truly epic adventures.

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I spent a month in Greenland filming. We

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we actually won two Guinness Book World Records

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accidentally.

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We filmed the largest calving event that had

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ever been captured on film, and it's featured

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in that movie Chasing Ice. And when the

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film came out, we decided to post that

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scene to YouTube. And I I don't know

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what the count is. It's like 60,000,000 views

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or more. You're kidding. And for those listening,

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calving is when ice

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sheds off of a glacier. It's basically

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the biggest event that has been filmed of

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a glacier falling apart and breaking apart. And

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that was 02/2008,

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I think. We'll post a link to the

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show notes.

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It was an experience of going out into

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the world

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and capturing a truth that we could record

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and bring back to the public. James, the

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photographer always referenced it as like Jason and

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the Argonauts capturing the Golden Fleece.

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There's always this notion of he wanted to

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capture the golden fleece and bring it back

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home.

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And for me, that's what I was exposed

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to fresh out of college that we could

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go and we could do important work and

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go on an an adventure at the same

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time and reveal this truth to the public.

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And when when Chasing Ice came out, it

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premiered at Sundance, it picked up awards, it

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played the festivals, it, you know, it got

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nomination, a nomination for an Academy Award, won

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an Emmy Award. And and the biggest thing

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was that we were showing this movie to

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climate skeptics

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and seeing them be transformed

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in seventy five minutes.

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We were watching

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skeptics come out of the theater

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literally saying, I had been denying this. I

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came here to heckle the movie,

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and I have to go now and I

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to apologize to my friends who have been

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saying this is all nonsense.

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We were getting that experience over and over

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again from

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making a piece of art and making a

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piece of cinema. The power of film. The

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power of stories and film being just one

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of those mediums. I kinda got hooked on

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it from Chasing Ice, and we just kind

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of continued from there. We went on to

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00:09:41,855 --> 00:09:44,654
make Chasing Coral, but the same philosophy applied

274
00:09:44,654 --> 00:09:47,534
to coral reefs. We were documenting how coral

275
00:09:47,534 --> 00:09:49,394
bleaching was affecting and killing

276
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,019
coral reefs around the world.

277
00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:53,799
And we filmed it was 2016. It was

278
00:09:53,799 --> 00:09:55,320
one of the biggest bleaching events that had

279
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,559
ever hit Australia, and we captured that in

280
00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,379
real time,

281
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,399
documenting that event and turning that into another

282
00:10:01,399 --> 00:10:04,475
film. So calving is to ice as bleaching

283
00:10:04,695 --> 00:10:07,355
is to coral. Pretty much. Yeah. The calving,

284
00:10:07,495 --> 00:10:09,335
when that ice breaks off, it is a

285
00:10:09,335 --> 00:10:10,554
visual manifestation

286
00:10:10,934 --> 00:10:11,995
of climate change.

287
00:10:12,375 --> 00:10:15,575
And coral bleaching is this phenomenon when the

288
00:10:15,575 --> 00:10:17,674
corals turn white due to heat.

289
00:10:18,209 --> 00:10:20,690
And sometimes they can actually recover and come

290
00:10:20,690 --> 00:10:23,089
back from it, but oftentimes what happens is

291
00:10:23,089 --> 00:10:25,169
that they get too hot and they actually

292
00:10:25,169 --> 00:10:26,949
tip into into dying.

293
00:10:27,329 --> 00:10:29,250
These two projects, I mean, they're heavy. They're

294
00:10:29,250 --> 00:10:30,870
they're they're pretty heavy

295
00:10:31,535 --> 00:10:34,254
subjects. My team and I, we've spent the

296
00:10:34,254 --> 00:10:36,675
better part of a decade going and witnessing

297
00:10:36,815 --> 00:10:38,035
and filming the

298
00:10:38,415 --> 00:10:39,795
direct impacts of humans'

299
00:10:40,335 --> 00:10:42,654
fingerprint on the planet. This is the visual

300
00:10:42,654 --> 00:10:45,839
evidence of climate change happening today. Sometimes we

301
00:10:45,839 --> 00:10:48,500
joke that we specialize in existential crises.

302
00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:51,039
It was from there that,

303
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,240
we pivoted to social media and technology. One

304
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,960
of our main subjects, Tristan Harris, when we

305
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,120
were first starting our conversations, he called it

306
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,820
a climate change of culture,

307
00:11:01,574 --> 00:11:04,774
that this technology was changing the background landscape

308
00:11:04,774 --> 00:11:05,975
of the world that we live in, and

309
00:11:05,975 --> 00:11:07,414
we don't even know it, and we don't

310
00:11:07,414 --> 00:11:09,814
realize it because it's such a slow drip

311
00:11:09,814 --> 00:11:11,115
of our day to day experience.

312
00:11:11,654 --> 00:11:13,814
And that process of making the social dilemma

313
00:11:13,894 --> 00:11:16,160
I've stopped using all social media since, I

314
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:17,360
don't know, 2019

315
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,279
or something. In the making of that movie,

316
00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:21,519
I couldn't keep using it. I I just

317
00:11:21,519 --> 00:11:22,960
saw it for what it was. I I

318
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,559
sort of I felt like I could see

319
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,040
The Matrix operating behind the scenes and why

320
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,799
I was getting a particular post and what

321
00:11:28,799 --> 00:11:30,259
it was luring me into.

322
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,335
And I kind of weaned myself off of

323
00:11:33,335 --> 00:11:35,014
it. I used all the techniques to get

324
00:11:35,014 --> 00:11:37,095
off of addiction, to wean myself off of

325
00:11:37,095 --> 00:11:37,914
social media

326
00:11:38,455 --> 00:11:40,615
and create a new habit. And here we

327
00:11:40,615 --> 00:11:42,375
are, whatever, six years later, and I haven't

328
00:11:42,375 --> 00:11:43,674
touched it. Wow.

329
00:11:44,375 --> 00:11:45,034
And then

330
00:11:45,490 --> 00:11:48,370
through your own existential crisis and all this

331
00:11:48,370 --> 00:11:51,590
incredible work you've done, you have a divorce,

332
00:11:51,649 --> 00:11:54,210
and that feels like a good time to

333
00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:56,629
do the process? Like, why then?

334
00:11:57,009 --> 00:11:57,509
Yeah.

335
00:11:57,875 --> 00:11:59,475
In large part, I think it was just

336
00:11:59,475 --> 00:12:01,714
time and scheduling between a bunch of different

337
00:12:01,714 --> 00:12:03,955
projects. And there's such a a waiting list

338
00:12:03,955 --> 00:12:05,315
and such a lead time that I was

339
00:12:05,315 --> 00:12:07,154
like, let me just sign up. And I

340
00:12:07,154 --> 00:12:08,835
had done that, and then the dates didn't

341
00:12:08,835 --> 00:12:10,615
work and it got pushed back. And then

342
00:12:10,889 --> 00:12:12,250
so then I had to sign up again.

343
00:12:12,250 --> 00:12:14,649
And then dates came up earlier that actually

344
00:12:14,649 --> 00:12:15,710
worked really perfectly.

345
00:12:16,410 --> 00:12:18,649
And, yeah, after going through a divorce, it

346
00:12:18,649 --> 00:12:21,629
was just like a big life shift in

347
00:12:21,929 --> 00:12:22,830
obvious ways

348
00:12:23,335 --> 00:12:25,174
and wanting that time and space for self

349
00:12:25,174 --> 00:12:28,054
reflection. And what are my patterns? What's showing

350
00:12:28,054 --> 00:12:30,534
up and why and how. So take us

351
00:12:30,534 --> 00:12:31,434
into your

352
00:12:31,815 --> 00:12:34,534
process. You walk into the classroom that first

353
00:12:34,534 --> 00:12:35,355
day you're,

354
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,600
you know, are you thinking to yourself, what

355
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,840
is this? I imagine you you weren't really

356
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,300
sure what was gonna happen.

357
00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:43,440
No idea. And even though I had so

358
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,540
many friends, nobody told me anything about

359
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,460
what you actually do.

360
00:12:47,795 --> 00:12:49,795
It's so funny. Like, the first day, I

361
00:12:49,795 --> 00:12:51,875
I was there that evening, we're having dinner

362
00:12:51,875 --> 00:12:54,035
before the program starts. And I just kept

363
00:12:54,035 --> 00:12:55,475
thinking it's like it's like a scene in

364
00:12:55,475 --> 00:12:56,995
a movie where you're meeting all the people

365
00:12:56,995 --> 00:12:58,434
on the airplane that are gonna be stuck

366
00:12:58,434 --> 00:12:59,715
on the airplane for the rest of the

367
00:12:59,715 --> 00:13:01,555
film. And it lit I'm just thinking through,

368
00:13:01,555 --> 00:13:03,415
like, who's this cast of characters?

369
00:13:03,850 --> 00:13:07,049
And I love that nobody talks about what

370
00:13:07,049 --> 00:13:09,529
they do. In a world where there's so

371
00:13:09,529 --> 00:13:12,970
much around status in countless ways to show

372
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:13,950
up and have this

373
00:13:14,330 --> 00:13:16,730
rule that you're not gonna talk about that,

374
00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:18,730
that you're not going to project a story

375
00:13:18,730 --> 00:13:19,549
onto anybody,

376
00:13:20,065 --> 00:13:22,804
There's a beauty in that. I really enjoy

377
00:13:22,865 --> 00:13:25,424
when I meet people through what have you.

378
00:13:25,424 --> 00:13:27,664
I really enjoy not asking what they do

379
00:13:27,664 --> 00:13:29,985
and almost never to the point where, like,

380
00:13:29,985 --> 00:13:32,065
I have friends that I still don't know

381
00:13:32,065 --> 00:13:33,220
what they do and they've been friends for

382
00:13:33,220 --> 00:13:34,740
a long time. I just, like, milk that

383
00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:36,200
as long as I can sometimes

384
00:13:36,899 --> 00:13:39,480
to build the relationship and the connection completely

385
00:13:39,539 --> 00:13:42,740
independently from this title and this label that

386
00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:43,799
we carry on ourselves.

387
00:13:44,179 --> 00:13:45,495
If you don't talk about what what you

388
00:13:45,495 --> 00:13:48,375
do, what your profession is, what you do

389
00:13:48,375 --> 00:13:49,195
for a living,

390
00:13:49,815 --> 00:13:51,735
you know, that's a long week. If you're

391
00:13:51,735 --> 00:13:53,414
not talking about work, what did you end

392
00:13:53,414 --> 00:13:56,134
up talking about with your fellow classmates on

393
00:13:56,134 --> 00:13:58,475
this stranded plane ride

394
00:13:58,774 --> 00:13:59,674
of a trip?

395
00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:01,340
I feel like we,

396
00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:04,440
especially the people in my small group and

397
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:05,879
then, you know, a handful of the other

398
00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:08,120
people that I connected with beyond, like there's

399
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,679
an invitation to go deeper at a personal

400
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:11,179
level,

401
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,360
eliminating this one thing off of the subject

402
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,195
matter list

403
00:14:15,674 --> 00:14:17,914
that we all, for the most part, probably

404
00:14:17,914 --> 00:14:19,514
spend most of our time thinking about or

405
00:14:19,514 --> 00:14:20,335
talking about.

406
00:14:20,794 --> 00:14:21,615
It forces

407
00:14:22,394 --> 00:14:24,735
more nuanced and more in-depth conversations.

408
00:14:25,355 --> 00:14:26,955
There's a film that we're working on right

409
00:14:26,955 --> 00:14:30,529
now, Mental Health, that I'm advising on executive

410
00:14:30,529 --> 00:14:32,789
producing on. And the director for this project

411
00:14:32,929 --> 00:14:34,929
has put a line into the film that

412
00:14:34,929 --> 00:14:36,450
he learned in his research and in his

413
00:14:36,450 --> 00:14:39,350
studies on this. The line is around connection

414
00:14:40,129 --> 00:14:40,629
versus

415
00:14:41,330 --> 00:14:41,830
communication.

416
00:14:42,495 --> 00:14:44,014
The idea is that we were sold a

417
00:14:44,014 --> 00:14:45,774
story around social media, that it was all

418
00:14:45,774 --> 00:14:48,735
about connection, that this is connecting people. And

419
00:14:48,735 --> 00:14:51,315
it's not. It is a platform for communication.

420
00:14:51,934 --> 00:14:55,475
It's a platform for a transference of ideas.

421
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:59,070
And communication is a transference of ideas, but

422
00:14:59,070 --> 00:14:59,570
connection

423
00:15:00,110 --> 00:15:01,970
is a transference of presence.

424
00:15:02,429 --> 00:15:03,710
When he shared this with me, when I

425
00:15:03,710 --> 00:15:05,570
heard it, it just, like, hit so deeply.

426
00:15:05,870 --> 00:15:06,850
One is information

427
00:15:07,309 --> 00:15:10,165
and getting information across between parties. The other

428
00:15:10,165 --> 00:15:11,605
is, like, what is a real presence? What

429
00:15:11,605 --> 00:15:13,285
are you and I feeling right now in

430
00:15:13,285 --> 00:15:15,205
this room? What do we feel when we're

431
00:15:15,205 --> 00:15:17,205
in a in a group of people having

432
00:15:17,205 --> 00:15:19,764
a real deep conversation about life and what

433
00:15:19,764 --> 00:15:22,245
you're wrestling with and the people that you

434
00:15:22,245 --> 00:15:23,445
love the most in the world and how

435
00:15:23,445 --> 00:15:24,690
you wanna show up for them?

436
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:25,990
The group

437
00:15:26,450 --> 00:15:28,070
had such deep presence.

438
00:15:28,769 --> 00:15:30,610
And I think those bonds that were created

439
00:15:30,610 --> 00:15:32,389
there, they're those bonds will last.

440
00:15:32,769 --> 00:15:35,269
We have a WhatsApp group for our cohort,

441
00:15:35,809 --> 00:15:37,649
and then there are some subgroups within it.

442
00:15:37,649 --> 00:15:40,835
And there's some real ongoing, deeply engaged conversation

443
00:15:41,455 --> 00:15:43,375
around people who just want to stay close

444
00:15:43,375 --> 00:15:44,835
to that feeling and to

445
00:15:45,215 --> 00:15:47,295
know that with this group of humans, there

446
00:15:47,295 --> 00:15:50,195
is a full invitation to be present

447
00:15:50,815 --> 00:15:52,035
as a regular practice.

448
00:15:52,809 --> 00:15:53,949
So what's the

449
00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:56,730
given your film is about the one you're

450
00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:59,449
consulting on is about mental health. What's the

451
00:15:59,449 --> 00:16:02,110
cost? There's gotta be a cost of thinking

452
00:16:02,809 --> 00:16:06,029
that this social media platform that you're engaging

453
00:16:06,169 --> 00:16:08,324
in is all about connection,

454
00:16:08,945 --> 00:16:11,684
when in fact it's only about communication.

455
00:16:12,304 --> 00:16:15,524
You're thinking one thing, but it's not delivering

456
00:16:15,824 --> 00:16:18,144
on that thing. There's gotta be a cost

457
00:16:18,144 --> 00:16:18,804
to that.

458
00:16:19,424 --> 00:16:21,600
The best analogy coming into my mind right

459
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,679
now is if you think you're eating something

460
00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:26,480
that's healthy and you're just starving yourself of

461
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,480
all the vitamins and nutrients that you actually

462
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,740
need, you don't even realize that you're sick.

463
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,184
And we, as a society, are starved. We

464
00:16:34,184 --> 00:16:35,485
are sick. We are

465
00:16:35,865 --> 00:16:37,565
incomplete as human beings,

466
00:16:38,024 --> 00:16:41,065
and we've been lied to. And the story

467
00:16:41,065 --> 00:16:43,465
of what these tech companies have been trying

468
00:16:43,465 --> 00:16:44,365
to sell us

469
00:16:44,745 --> 00:16:46,424
has been falling a a fast one over

470
00:16:46,424 --> 00:16:47,245
us, and

471
00:16:47,690 --> 00:16:49,209
we get sucked into it more and more

472
00:16:49,209 --> 00:16:52,009
and more. It litter they've literally designed it

473
00:16:52,009 --> 00:16:54,970
to pull on your dopamine and to entice

474
00:16:54,970 --> 00:16:56,409
you in and to figure out what's gonna

475
00:16:56,409 --> 00:16:58,089
work on you and get you to spend

476
00:16:58,089 --> 00:17:00,004
more time there for their business model. Don't

477
00:17:00,004 --> 00:17:01,365
need to go down the whole tirade of

478
00:17:01,365 --> 00:17:03,625
that, but I don't look at those platforms

479
00:17:03,845 --> 00:17:06,565
as serving us. They are not designed to

480
00:17:06,565 --> 00:17:07,384
serve us.

481
00:17:07,924 --> 00:17:10,884
And that's been the biggest freedom for me

482
00:17:10,884 --> 00:17:11,865
around not engaging.

483
00:17:12,164 --> 00:17:15,099
Yeah. And we didn't used to think that

484
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,599
the process was digital detox, but more and

485
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:19,099
more

486
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,200
as social media and these phones, which are

487
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:22,940
so convenient

488
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,200
and people give up their phones, that's, we

489
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,140
can say that on air here,

490
00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:30,985
That has actually been a huge piece of

491
00:17:30,985 --> 00:17:33,164
the week. It's been part of the transformation.

492
00:17:33,785 --> 00:17:35,144
It took me by shock a little bit

493
00:17:35,144 --> 00:17:37,225
at the start realizing that I would be

494
00:17:37,225 --> 00:17:39,065
without my phone or computer and had to

495
00:17:39,065 --> 00:17:40,505
do a bunch of prep with my team

496
00:17:40,505 --> 00:17:42,365
and my family around like, hey.

497
00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:44,589
This is different. You're not gonna hear from

498
00:17:44,589 --> 00:17:47,070
me for ten days. Like and I prepped

499
00:17:47,070 --> 00:17:48,990
people that I'll get my phone back on

500
00:17:48,990 --> 00:17:50,829
Friday, but you probably won't hear from me

501
00:17:50,829 --> 00:17:51,730
until Tuesday.

502
00:17:52,029 --> 00:17:54,109
So I gave myself the weekend buffer as

503
00:17:54,109 --> 00:17:56,750
well, and really set up expectations. Like, you're

504
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:58,984
not gonna hear from me. Nowadays, when you

505
00:17:58,984 --> 00:18:00,825
hear people say that, they go, but I'll

506
00:18:00,825 --> 00:18:02,264
check my phone every once in a while.

507
00:18:02,264 --> 00:18:04,184
It's like, you won't hear from me, but

508
00:18:04,184 --> 00:18:06,365
you still will hear from me. This is

509
00:18:06,744 --> 00:18:09,884
really, no, really, you won't hear from me.

510
00:18:10,105 --> 00:18:11,544
And I think it is one of the

511
00:18:11,544 --> 00:18:13,244
most beautiful and powerful

512
00:18:14,059 --> 00:18:15,920
experiences that we could have nowadays.

513
00:18:16,299 --> 00:18:18,539
It is a week where I was focused

514
00:18:18,539 --> 00:18:20,880
on my own growth and my own

515
00:18:21,259 --> 00:18:23,900
work, and the days are full. And you're

516
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:25,440
working long hours.

517
00:18:26,059 --> 00:18:27,519
It's not like you're on vacation.

518
00:18:27,974 --> 00:18:29,335
And this is also one of the best

519
00:18:29,335 --> 00:18:30,714
gifts you can ever give yourself.

520
00:18:31,015 --> 00:18:32,615
It's so funny. I use an Oura ring.

521
00:18:32,615 --> 00:18:35,575
I've tracked, you know, these whatever stats for

522
00:18:35,575 --> 00:18:38,535
forever, and there's a metric within it of,

523
00:18:38,535 --> 00:18:39,595
like, your resilience.

524
00:18:40,210 --> 00:18:42,450
I had never ever in my life hit

525
00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:43,269
the exceptional

526
00:18:43,570 --> 00:18:46,289
resilience until Hoffman. It was the weirdest thing.

527
00:18:46,289 --> 00:18:48,769
I was going to bed early. I was

528
00:18:48,769 --> 00:18:51,250
getting a lot of sleep and I needed

529
00:18:51,250 --> 00:18:52,869
that just to endure

530
00:18:53,305 --> 00:18:54,984
the emotional labor of every day. And I

531
00:18:54,984 --> 00:18:56,825
was like, we we wrapped, we finished whatever

532
00:18:56,825 --> 00:18:58,744
we did after dinner, and then I just

533
00:18:58,744 --> 00:19:00,664
wanna go right to bed. I got some

534
00:19:00,664 --> 00:19:02,585
of the best sleep of my life during

535
00:19:02,585 --> 00:19:04,904
that time just because I was really focused

536
00:19:04,904 --> 00:19:06,659
on, you know, how do I take care

537
00:19:06,659 --> 00:19:07,940
of myself and how do I show up

538
00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:09,720
with the most presence and the most energy.

539
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:12,579
Another side note, I'm a musician. I play

540
00:19:12,579 --> 00:19:14,599
the piano, and I'm getting into composing.

541
00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:16,359
And I normally

542
00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:18,740
will pull out my phone and record a

543
00:19:18,740 --> 00:19:20,664
voice memo of a song. And if an

544
00:19:20,664 --> 00:19:22,825
idea comes into my head and one day,

545
00:19:22,825 --> 00:19:24,345
a song comes into my head on day

546
00:19:24,345 --> 00:19:25,705
three or four or something, and I'm like,

547
00:19:25,705 --> 00:19:26,904
what do I do with this? I don't

548
00:19:26,985 --> 00:19:28,825
I can't I don't have my phone. I

549
00:19:28,825 --> 00:19:29,725
don't have a computer.

550
00:19:30,184 --> 00:19:32,825
And I haven't ever done this. I took

551
00:19:32,825 --> 00:19:34,589
out a piece of paper, and I wrote

552
00:19:34,750 --> 00:19:35,569
staff bars

553
00:19:35,869 --> 00:19:38,269
and I wrote the notes in my head

554
00:19:38,269 --> 00:19:39,950
and I just wrote the notes down. And

555
00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:41,230
I was like, I think this is the

556
00:19:41,230 --> 00:19:42,750
song that's in my head right now. And

557
00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:44,829
I'm so excited. I want to see what

558
00:19:44,829 --> 00:19:46,750
that might turn into from day three of

559
00:19:46,750 --> 00:19:47,250
Hoffman.

560
00:19:47,845 --> 00:19:49,625
That's great. Was there any

561
00:19:50,005 --> 00:19:51,684
moment during the week, you and I haven't

562
00:19:51,684 --> 00:19:53,125
talked about this, so this is sort of

563
00:19:53,125 --> 00:19:54,565
out of the blue. Was there any moment

564
00:19:54,565 --> 00:19:56,804
where where you were like, oh, man, I

565
00:19:57,044 --> 00:19:59,544
this is hard. Wow. This is painful.

566
00:20:00,109 --> 00:20:01,809
I don't know if I can do this

567
00:20:01,950 --> 00:20:04,210
or, or this feels so heavy.

568
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:06,750
I never felt a, I don't think I

569
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:08,990
can do this. And I think that's just

570
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:11,650
a testament to the program and the teachers

571
00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:12,690
and the structure.

572
00:20:13,164 --> 00:20:14,865
I think it's such an incredibly

573
00:20:15,484 --> 00:20:16,464
structured week

574
00:20:16,765 --> 00:20:18,924
where day one, you get introduced to things

575
00:20:18,924 --> 00:20:20,605
a little outside of your comfort zone and

576
00:20:20,605 --> 00:20:22,285
day two, it pushes that a little bit

577
00:20:22,285 --> 00:20:23,805
more and day three, it pushes that a

578
00:20:23,805 --> 00:20:26,279
little bit more. And if you hear what

579
00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:27,880
you do on, you know, the last couple

580
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,400
days, if you hear that at the beginning,

581
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,960
it's like, what on earth? But but you're

582
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,299
prepared for it. I was in full surrender.

583
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,220
I went into it knowing

584
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,039
it has worked for so many of my

585
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:40,115
friends. I'm gonna trust this thing. I don't

586
00:20:40,115 --> 00:20:41,795
want to say trust it blindly. I'm trusting

587
00:20:41,795 --> 00:20:42,775
it with validation.

588
00:20:43,475 --> 00:20:46,055
It doesn't benefit me to have any resistance.

589
00:20:46,755 --> 00:20:49,715
And so I just went into it knowing

590
00:20:49,715 --> 00:20:50,215
that

591
00:20:50,674 --> 00:20:52,615
I'm down for whatever shows up,

592
00:20:53,009 --> 00:20:54,690
and what am I gonna learn from this,

593
00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:56,130
and what can I take away from this,

594
00:20:56,130 --> 00:20:58,690
and how might this influence and affect my

595
00:20:58,690 --> 00:20:59,910
life going forward?

596
00:21:00,289 --> 00:21:02,210
But there were a lot of unexpected things

597
00:21:02,210 --> 00:21:05,509
that showed up. I mean, different stories around

598
00:21:05,730 --> 00:21:07,589
when the virtue is also the vice,

599
00:21:08,085 --> 00:21:10,244
The narrative that I might've had on certain

600
00:21:10,244 --> 00:21:11,845
things where like, wait, this has been of

601
00:21:11,845 --> 00:21:14,005
great benefit to me. And wait, this is

602
00:21:14,005 --> 00:21:15,065
also my limitation.

603
00:21:15,684 --> 00:21:18,164
It was really mind bending. And the love

604
00:21:18,164 --> 00:21:19,845
that I have for my parents and where

605
00:21:19,845 --> 00:21:21,924
that also is like, wait a second, did

606
00:21:21,924 --> 00:21:23,160
this always serve me?

607
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,440
And stuff that showed up that had no

608
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,660
sense was on the radar

609
00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:30,759
gave me an opportunity to articulate that to

610
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:33,160
myself and to process that myself. I think

611
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,080
one of the most fascinating things is that

612
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,400
you're in this container where it's a group

613
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,125
container, but everybody's doing individual work, and you're

614
00:21:40,125 --> 00:21:41,884
never doing one on one work with a

615
00:21:41,884 --> 00:21:44,144
therapist in the way we think of

616
00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:45,745
therapy today.

617
00:21:46,125 --> 00:21:47,725
When I reflected on that with friends, it's

618
00:21:47,725 --> 00:21:49,565
like there's something so magical. Like, you don't

619
00:21:49,565 --> 00:21:51,404
actually need that. You can do it in

620
00:21:51,404 --> 00:21:53,940
a group setting like this. Everybody's going through

621
00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:56,119
their own emotional arc and their own journey.

622
00:21:56,579 --> 00:21:58,660
And it wasn't like I was ever going

623
00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:00,440
deep with my teacher on

624
00:22:00,740 --> 00:22:02,819
the real weight and trying to sift through

625
00:22:02,819 --> 00:22:04,819
that together. He was aware of my story

626
00:22:04,819 --> 00:22:05,799
and the high level

627
00:22:06,339 --> 00:22:08,744
and the places that had showed up, but

628
00:22:08,744 --> 00:22:10,445
it was a group container.

629
00:22:11,305 --> 00:22:13,305
Yeah. You share a couple key things there.

630
00:22:13,305 --> 00:22:15,704
One is that you're in a group and

631
00:22:15,704 --> 00:22:18,585
healing happens in community. So you can really

632
00:22:18,585 --> 00:22:20,845
do powerful work in that group setting.

633
00:22:21,144 --> 00:22:25,059
But the paradox that you're doing individual work

634
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,599
in that group setting. And then the other

635
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:29,680
thing you add is that it's not as

636
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,820
if we're the gurus dropping the mic and

637
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,500
you are getting the insights from your teacher.

638
00:22:36,825 --> 00:22:39,784
You're getting the insights from the work inside

639
00:22:39,784 --> 00:22:41,865
of you. And from the group and the

640
00:22:41,865 --> 00:22:43,944
group's reflections as well. I think one of

641
00:22:43,944 --> 00:22:44,924
the most impactful

642
00:22:45,224 --> 00:22:46,684
things for me was

643
00:22:46,984 --> 00:22:49,544
each of us is carrying our own biggest

644
00:22:49,544 --> 00:22:52,024
story about the biggest scariest thing or what

645
00:22:52,024 --> 00:22:53,920
have you. And then when it goes around

646
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,160
the group and you hear what everybody else

647
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,840
is worried about, there are some people that

648
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,440
say something and you're like, what? That's not

649
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:00,960
a big deal. Like, how is that a

650
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,600
big, you're worried about that? And then that

651
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,960
mirror gets held back on you. It's like,

652
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,365
wait a second. Somebody else is thinking your

653
00:23:07,365 --> 00:23:09,445
biggest deal is not a big deal. And

654
00:23:09,445 --> 00:23:11,044
there there is something about that. I don't

655
00:23:11,044 --> 00:23:12,664
know if I'm hitting the point, but, like,

656
00:23:13,045 --> 00:23:13,545
seeing

657
00:23:13,924 --> 00:23:14,585
the diversity

658
00:23:14,884 --> 00:23:17,684
of stories that people are carrying that are

659
00:23:17,684 --> 00:23:20,105
holding them back and holding them down

660
00:23:20,460 --> 00:23:21,599
with such weight.

661
00:23:22,059 --> 00:23:24,460
It's like, wow. That story wouldn't is not

662
00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:26,700
my story, but this is my story and

663
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:27,599
what I'm carrying.

664
00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:30,779
And then just hearing all of those different

665
00:23:30,779 --> 00:23:33,105
tones and reflections in the room was super

666
00:23:33,105 --> 00:23:35,744
insightful to me. It helped me release my

667
00:23:35,744 --> 00:23:36,484
own story

668
00:23:37,025 --> 00:23:38,964
because it's just a story. We're all just

669
00:23:39,025 --> 00:23:40,005
freaking carrying

670
00:23:40,464 --> 00:23:42,244
this emotional baggage around

671
00:23:42,704 --> 00:23:44,464
and we're attached to it and we're lugging

672
00:23:44,464 --> 00:23:46,559
it cause we think it's the only thing

673
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,000
and it's what we need and we need

674
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,900
to protect it.

675
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:50,019
And yet

676
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:50,900
it's

677
00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:51,779
baggage.

678
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,900
You speak to something I think is about

679
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:55,619
siloing

680
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:56,740
or isolation

681
00:23:57,454 --> 00:23:59,075
in the sense that our story

682
00:23:59,375 --> 00:24:00,994
doesn't really get the oxygen

683
00:24:01,934 --> 00:24:04,434
that it needs to get. And so, because

684
00:24:04,575 --> 00:24:05,714
it's not oxygenated,

685
00:24:06,095 --> 00:24:08,494
it's not shared with other people. It gets

686
00:24:08,494 --> 00:24:09,394
kind of calcified

687
00:24:10,259 --> 00:24:12,660
in our mind. And if anybody tries to

688
00:24:12,660 --> 00:24:14,680
confront it, it's like, well, you don't understand

689
00:24:14,740 --> 00:24:15,400
my story.

690
00:24:15,779 --> 00:24:17,320
And we tend to reinforce

691
00:24:17,859 --> 00:24:19,940
it in this echo chamber that is our

692
00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:22,019
psyche. And part of what you're talking to

693
00:24:22,019 --> 00:24:22,680
is that,

694
00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:27,075
wow, when you hear everyone's story, there's some

695
00:24:27,335 --> 00:24:27,835
leveling,

696
00:24:28,134 --> 00:24:29,434
some expansion,

697
00:24:29,734 --> 00:24:30,234
something

698
00:24:31,014 --> 00:24:32,554
softening that happens

699
00:24:33,335 --> 00:24:36,634
in hearing people's story and having those stories

700
00:24:37,014 --> 00:24:39,755
be shared in such a tight community.

701
00:24:40,220 --> 00:24:41,900
It's almost like when you bring it out

702
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:44,220
into the light, the light can heal it

703
00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:46,880
versus keeping it boxed up. Yeah.

704
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:48,880
It does speak to

705
00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:50,480
the normalizing

706
00:24:51,339 --> 00:24:53,440
of things that we have abnormalized

707
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:55,599
inside of our heads,

708
00:24:55,974 --> 00:24:57,194
all that self judgment.

709
00:24:58,054 --> 00:25:00,454
It's not rocket science sometimes. It's like, wait

710
00:25:00,454 --> 00:25:01,734
a minute, what would it be like if

711
00:25:01,734 --> 00:25:02,554
we just brought

712
00:25:03,174 --> 00:25:05,274
more compassion to the experience

713
00:25:05,654 --> 00:25:06,634
of being human?

714
00:25:07,095 --> 00:25:09,014
And I think we've been starved of that

715
00:25:09,014 --> 00:25:09,994
in this society.

716
00:25:10,619 --> 00:25:11,839
I feel super

717
00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:14,880
blessed in my friend circle here in Boulder.

718
00:25:15,819 --> 00:25:18,220
There's a thorough quote from Walden that has

719
00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:19,980
always stuck with me. And there's just a

720
00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:21,500
phrase that he went to the woods to

721
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:22,240
live deliberately,

722
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:25,259
but he wanted to suck out the marrow

723
00:25:25,259 --> 00:25:25,920
of life.

724
00:25:26,414 --> 00:25:28,575
And that phrase to suck out the marrow

725
00:25:28,575 --> 00:25:31,215
of life has always stuck with me, to

726
00:25:31,215 --> 00:25:32,975
live deep and suck out the marrow of

727
00:25:32,975 --> 00:25:34,575
life. And I feel like I have a

728
00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:35,875
a friend circle that

729
00:25:36,335 --> 00:25:38,515
that embodies that and practices that.

730
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:41,110
And through a couple of different groups, we

731
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:41,930
do monthly

732
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:44,789
meetups and check ins. I was last night,

733
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:47,590
I was on a friend's property who also

734
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:49,289
actually is a Hoffman alum

735
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:51,750
and or others in the group. I think

736
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:53,575
one of them is about to go. And

737
00:25:53,575 --> 00:25:54,855
I don't know about the other two in

738
00:25:54,855 --> 00:25:56,455
this in this group last night. We spent

739
00:25:56,455 --> 00:25:58,795
hours in a sauna last night and just

740
00:25:59,335 --> 00:26:01,734
went through these individual check ins. Each person

741
00:26:01,734 --> 00:26:04,134
went for fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes around where

742
00:26:04,134 --> 00:26:06,134
they are in life and what they're wrestling

743
00:26:06,134 --> 00:26:08,460
with and what's showing up and what's real.

744
00:26:09,099 --> 00:26:11,279
And to be able to go through that

745
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,980
and five men just being able to hear

746
00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:16,079
each other's stories and to reflect back

747
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,859
what wisdom we hear or what advice somebody

748
00:26:18,859 --> 00:26:20,799
has or just to be a listening ear.

749
00:26:20,965 --> 00:26:23,144
I feel so grateful that I have communities

750
00:26:23,285 --> 00:26:25,285
like that. And I know that's not the

751
00:26:25,285 --> 00:26:25,785
norm.

752
00:26:26,485 --> 00:26:29,045
And I see friends that are starving for

753
00:26:29,045 --> 00:26:31,765
human connection. It's painful when, when you see

754
00:26:31,765 --> 00:26:34,965
that. Yeah. There's there is that isolation, isn't

755
00:26:34,965 --> 00:26:37,640
it? Yeah. But is that addressed in your

756
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,960
next film coming up here? It's funny. It's

757
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,400
funny that you mentioned it. I don't wanna

758
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,400
overly spill the beans on it. The film

759
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,480
isn't announced publicly, and it doesn't have a

760
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:45,980
title.

761
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:49,320
We're prepping for a big festival submission soon,

762
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:50,954
but there is an insight that comes from

763
00:26:50,954 --> 00:26:52,335
the film to this point

764
00:26:52,954 --> 00:26:53,454
around

765
00:26:53,914 --> 00:26:56,554
how technology now we've never been surrounded by

766
00:26:56,554 --> 00:26:58,494
so much isolating technology.

767
00:26:59,035 --> 00:27:01,115
And, yes, this means cell phones and social

768
00:27:01,115 --> 00:27:02,255
media, but it's also

769
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Uber Eats, and it's the self checkout at

770
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,880
the grocery store. And it's you've never been

771
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,960
able to live in a basement and never

772
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,299
talk to somebody for weeks on end before.

773
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,700
You can do that now. You can literally

774
00:27:15,164 --> 00:27:18,225
keep yourself in a sealed room and survive

775
00:27:18,285 --> 00:27:21,345
and function as a quasi human being

776
00:27:21,725 --> 00:27:23,984
and never interact with other humans.

777
00:27:24,605 --> 00:27:27,005
And we've never ever been in that place

778
00:27:27,005 --> 00:27:28,384
in history before. And

779
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:30,220
it's funny. There's a phrase that we learned

780
00:27:30,220 --> 00:27:31,519
when making the social dilemma,

781
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,640
Silicon Valley solves Silicon Valley's problems.

782
00:27:35,339 --> 00:27:37,279
I'm putting a very broad generalization

783
00:27:37,740 --> 00:27:39,599
out here and but I just picture

784
00:27:39,980 --> 00:27:41,039
a lonely engineer

785
00:27:41,664 --> 00:27:44,325
wanting to feel better and designing technology

786
00:27:44,945 --> 00:27:47,285
that is the opposite of connection

787
00:27:47,904 --> 00:27:50,384
and designing technology that has yielded what we

788
00:27:50,384 --> 00:27:52,785
have today, this ecosystem of technology that we

789
00:27:52,785 --> 00:27:54,865
have today that is isolating us more and

790
00:27:54,865 --> 00:27:58,150
more and more. And it's not technology that's

791
00:27:58,150 --> 00:28:00,650
actually helping us exchange presence

792
00:28:01,029 --> 00:28:02,710
and be more informed about the world and

793
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:05,509
more interconnected and more understanding of each other's

794
00:28:05,509 --> 00:28:06,009
empathy.

795
00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:09,109
That's not the business model. Yeah. I imagine

796
00:28:09,109 --> 00:28:11,930
the film offers some path forward.

797
00:28:12,304 --> 00:28:14,865
A whole bunch. But, I'm actually super, super

798
00:28:14,865 --> 00:28:16,544
excited about the film. We have a working

799
00:28:16,544 --> 00:28:18,724
title right now, but not knowing

800
00:28:19,025 --> 00:28:20,544
when or how the film's gonna come out

801
00:28:20,544 --> 00:28:22,065
or how long it's gonna take for us

802
00:28:22,065 --> 00:28:23,664
to finish it, it it doesn't even behoove

803
00:28:23,664 --> 00:28:25,779
me to say the working title. But I

804
00:28:25,779 --> 00:28:27,140
am very excited about it, and I hope

805
00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:29,059
it is publicly available in the next year

806
00:28:29,059 --> 00:28:30,920
or so. Are you excited to have

807
00:28:31,299 --> 00:28:33,779
Sundance come to Boulder? Oh my goodness. Were

808
00:28:33,779 --> 00:28:35,539
you a part of that happening? I helped

809
00:28:35,539 --> 00:28:36,900
out here and there and helped with the

810
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,255
Sundance team and the local Colorado team. But,

811
00:28:39,575 --> 00:28:42,134
yes, the biggest film festival in The United

812
00:28:42,134 --> 00:28:44,375
States, the Sundance Film Festival, it's one of

813
00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:46,714
the biggest the biggest independent film festival,

814
00:28:47,174 --> 00:28:49,174
is moving from Park City, Utah, where it's

815
00:28:49,174 --> 00:28:51,095
been for all of its decades, and it's

816
00:28:51,095 --> 00:28:53,759
moving to Boulder, Colorado starting in 2027.

817
00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:55,119
I feel like these have been my two

818
00:28:55,119 --> 00:28:57,279
worlds. Boulder and Sundance have been my two

819
00:28:57,279 --> 00:28:58,099
worlds for,

820
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,900
you know, my whole professional career, basically.

821
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:02,880
And to have it come here is really

822
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,039
special. This venue that we're in right now,

823
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:06,480
ETown, is going to be one of the

824
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,619
venues for the festival.

825
00:29:08,065 --> 00:29:09,664
And people are gonna be sitting in that

826
00:29:09,664 --> 00:29:12,144
room next to us hearing lectures and talk

827
00:29:12,144 --> 00:29:14,805
backs and conversations about art and cinema and

828
00:29:14,945 --> 00:29:15,684
and storytelling.

829
00:29:16,065 --> 00:29:18,065
It's not just about the film. It's about

830
00:29:18,065 --> 00:29:21,205
community coming together to what we're talking about.

831
00:29:21,409 --> 00:29:22,849
And that's the thing that I love most

832
00:29:22,849 --> 00:29:25,250
about film festivals is that the filmmakers and

833
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:27,490
artists are there and you watch the piece

834
00:29:27,490 --> 00:29:29,169
of work and then you have a conversation

835
00:29:29,169 --> 00:29:30,849
and a Q and A, and there's an

836
00:29:30,849 --> 00:29:32,630
exchange of dialogue and ideas.

837
00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:35,409
It's such a needed thing. I think we

838
00:29:35,409 --> 00:29:37,109
need it more and more and more.

839
00:29:37,434 --> 00:29:38,255
So take us

840
00:29:38,634 --> 00:29:39,535
to you graduate

841
00:29:39,914 --> 00:29:41,934
air quotes and you head into

842
00:29:42,394 --> 00:29:44,015
your post process weekend

843
00:29:44,474 --> 00:29:46,414
and then you head into your life.

844
00:29:46,955 --> 00:29:50,734
What happens to your life, Jeff, post process?

845
00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:53,039
The first thought that comes to mind is

846
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:54,179
there's a

847
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,319
an invitation towards the end of the week

848
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,079
to write letters, and I wrote a couple

849
00:29:58,079 --> 00:29:58,579
of

850
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,460
meaningful

851
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:00,579
letters.

852
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,599
And in particular, I wrote some letters to

853
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:06,184
my parents during that following weekend. I was,

854
00:30:06,184 --> 00:30:08,424
you know, staying in a little Airbnb at

855
00:30:08,424 --> 00:30:10,285
this beautiful spot in Northern California

856
00:30:11,224 --> 00:30:12,744
and for writing these letters and just pouring

857
00:30:12,744 --> 00:30:14,424
my heart out, sent them to both of

858
00:30:14,424 --> 00:30:15,085
my parents,

859
00:30:15,545 --> 00:30:18,184
and getting those responses back from my parents.

860
00:30:18,184 --> 00:30:18,845
My mom,

861
00:30:19,150 --> 00:30:22,210
I don't think she's ever written a letter

862
00:30:22,269 --> 00:30:24,589
to certainly not to me. I've never received

863
00:30:24,589 --> 00:30:26,750
one. And to get this, like, multi page

864
00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:28,750
handwritten letter back from her was one of

865
00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:31,549
my most cherished special things to receive from

866
00:30:31,549 --> 00:30:34,049
my mom. Wait. Your mom got your letter?

867
00:30:34,355 --> 00:30:36,115
She got my letter. And then weeks later,

868
00:30:36,115 --> 00:30:37,894
she sent me one back in return

869
00:30:38,434 --> 00:30:39,494
and it was

870
00:30:39,955 --> 00:30:40,455
spectacular.

871
00:30:40,835 --> 00:30:43,015
It was so, so meaningful and so special.

872
00:30:43,714 --> 00:30:46,035
I think for my relationship with my parents

873
00:30:46,035 --> 00:30:48,809
and relationship with other close ones that were

874
00:30:48,809 --> 00:30:50,170
kind of very much in my orbit and

875
00:30:50,170 --> 00:30:50,829
my field

876
00:30:51,369 --> 00:30:53,150
in particular during those weeks,

877
00:30:54,009 --> 00:30:56,490
it just invited a deepening connection. I don't

878
00:30:56,490 --> 00:30:58,509
know how else to summarize it.

879
00:30:59,529 --> 00:31:01,049
The filter of all the day to day

880
00:31:01,049 --> 00:31:03,134
stress and the day to day logistics and

881
00:31:03,134 --> 00:31:04,335
the day to day, all the stuff that

882
00:31:04,335 --> 00:31:06,414
we carry on a regular basis, it sort

883
00:31:06,414 --> 00:31:07,855
of just felt like an invitation to put

884
00:31:07,855 --> 00:31:09,534
that all aside and go to the marrow

885
00:31:09,534 --> 00:31:11,315
of life, to go to that deeper

886
00:31:11,774 --> 00:31:14,414
soul connection and a deeper place of of

887
00:31:14,414 --> 00:31:16,355
a deeper reflection and gratitude.

888
00:31:16,890 --> 00:31:18,170
There are a couple of practices that have

889
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:20,029
stuck with me in varying ways.

890
00:31:20,410 --> 00:31:23,869
I find that the gratitude and appreciation practice

891
00:31:24,170 --> 00:31:24,910
has been

892
00:31:25,210 --> 00:31:28,170
super insightful and it doesn't take long. And

893
00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:29,609
for a long time, I was journaling it

894
00:31:29,609 --> 00:31:31,769
and writing it on a daily practice. And

895
00:31:31,769 --> 00:31:32,009
then,

896
00:31:32,865 --> 00:31:35,105
more recently, it's just like a nighttime before

897
00:31:35,105 --> 00:31:36,865
I go to bed, like, brushing my teeth

898
00:31:36,865 --> 00:31:38,164
and just a mental reflection

899
00:31:38,625 --> 00:31:41,045
and, like, letting that wash over me and

900
00:31:41,265 --> 00:31:42,644
using that as a transition

901
00:31:43,265 --> 00:31:45,970
into bed and the morning quad checks. I

902
00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:47,250
I don't stick to it all the time,

903
00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:48,769
but when I, like, need to pull that

904
00:31:48,769 --> 00:31:50,210
out, it's like, oh, I have this tool

905
00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:52,289
in my belt. And it's either on my

906
00:31:52,289 --> 00:31:53,190
morning routines

907
00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:55,330
on either the light touch or a deeper

908
00:31:55,330 --> 00:31:57,250
touch of a full meditation and and giving

909
00:31:57,250 --> 00:31:59,505
myself that time, it feels to me like

910
00:31:59,505 --> 00:32:01,105
I just have more and more tools at

911
00:32:01,105 --> 00:32:04,384
my disposal for what level of presence can

912
00:32:04,384 --> 00:32:05,204
I drop into?

913
00:32:05,744 --> 00:32:08,544
You keep using this word presence. It means

914
00:32:08,544 --> 00:32:11,299
so much and yet can be a little

915
00:32:11,299 --> 00:32:13,380
confusing. Like what does it mean to be

916
00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:13,880
present?

917
00:32:14,180 --> 00:32:15,240
When your mind is

918
00:32:15,619 --> 00:32:18,180
rattling off and going in a thousand different

919
00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:18,680
directions,

920
00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:21,559
it's not that. I start there because

921
00:32:22,259 --> 00:32:24,920
that's almost the easiest filter for me around

922
00:32:25,715 --> 00:32:28,055
when I'm present and engaged in a conversation,

923
00:32:28,195 --> 00:32:29,494
I'm not thinking about

924
00:32:29,955 --> 00:32:32,134
laundry or the errands or

925
00:32:32,434 --> 00:32:35,174
a work thing, or what have you. And

926
00:32:35,394 --> 00:32:37,955
it almost feels like a muscle that you

927
00:32:37,955 --> 00:32:39,414
can build and practice.

928
00:32:39,789 --> 00:32:41,789
It becomes more and more challenging. It's a

929
00:32:41,789 --> 00:32:44,609
muscle that has atrophied in our digital society

930
00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:47,150
when you see a bunch of people hanging

931
00:32:47,150 --> 00:32:48,849
out together and they're all on their phone

932
00:32:49,069 --> 00:32:51,490
and everybody's just endlessly scrolling

933
00:32:52,190 --> 00:32:52,690
and

934
00:32:53,275 --> 00:32:55,595
barely engaging with each other. And it can

935
00:32:55,595 --> 00:32:57,355
be hard to be fully present sometimes with

936
00:32:57,355 --> 00:32:58,634
people that you spend a lot of time

937
00:32:58,634 --> 00:33:00,394
with. If you're day to day all the

938
00:33:00,394 --> 00:33:01,375
time with somebody,

939
00:33:01,674 --> 00:33:03,214
it can feel like work sometimes

940
00:33:03,674 --> 00:33:05,375
to tap into that, that presence.

941
00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:07,480
But I think in part two, that the

942
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,619
idea that connection

943
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,660
is an exchange of presence

944
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,380
has invited me all the more

945
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,804
to practice that more, to honor that recognition

946
00:33:18,865 --> 00:33:19,684
and that gift

947
00:33:20,065 --> 00:33:22,144
and to go deeper into what does it

948
00:33:22,144 --> 00:33:24,804
mean to be fully present with somebody? Connection

949
00:33:25,184 --> 00:33:27,285
is an exchange of presence.

950
00:33:27,825 --> 00:33:28,325
Beautiful.

951
00:33:28,704 --> 00:33:30,779
And how do you give that gift to

952
00:33:30,940 --> 00:33:32,700
somebody else? And how do you receive that

953
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:34,720
gift or even demand that gift?

954
00:33:35,019 --> 00:33:36,640
And there are times where it's like, Hey,

955
00:33:36,940 --> 00:33:39,099
would you mind putting your phone away? Do

956
00:33:39,099 --> 00:33:40,940
you do that at times? I find most

957
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:42,539
of my friends, we don't hang out on

958
00:33:42,539 --> 00:33:45,744
our phone. Like, it's not the regular occurrence.

959
00:33:45,805 --> 00:33:47,404
I do have a friend. She wants to

960
00:33:47,404 --> 00:33:49,325
install a microwave at the entrance of her

961
00:33:49,325 --> 00:33:51,484
house and have people come in and put

962
00:33:51,644 --> 00:33:53,184
a microwave is a Faraday cage.

963
00:33:53,484 --> 00:33:55,805
Right? It blocks radiation. So she wants people

964
00:33:55,805 --> 00:33:57,085
to come in, put their phone in the

965
00:33:57,085 --> 00:33:59,549
microwave, close the door, and leave the phone

966
00:33:59,549 --> 00:34:00,289
in isolation.

967
00:34:00,990 --> 00:34:02,670
And so, yeah, I for me too, I

968
00:34:02,670 --> 00:34:05,150
I have charging stations around my house that

969
00:34:05,150 --> 00:34:07,329
in an ideal world, my phone is there

970
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:08,989
kind of in its parking lot. Like, this

971
00:34:08,989 --> 00:34:10,610
is where the phone can go live.

972
00:34:10,965 --> 00:34:13,525
And it's charging, but it's away and off

973
00:34:13,525 --> 00:34:14,184
my body,

974
00:34:14,565 --> 00:34:16,325
and it just invites more and more presence.

975
00:34:16,325 --> 00:34:17,545
It is removing

976
00:34:18,325 --> 00:34:20,585
the slot machine of distraction and notification

977
00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:23,010
and gives you more space for that.

978
00:34:23,969 --> 00:34:24,630
The occasional

979
00:34:25,090 --> 00:34:25,590
reward,

980
00:34:26,130 --> 00:34:26,949
the unpredictable

981
00:34:27,409 --> 00:34:30,150
reward is how you get people addicted, right?

982
00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:32,309
Yeah. It's the slot machine technique.

983
00:34:32,849 --> 00:34:35,269
It works. It works on this human brain

984
00:34:35,655 --> 00:34:38,235
and they have optimized it really, really well.

985
00:34:38,375 --> 00:34:39,894
Yeah. I love my phone and I love

986
00:34:39,894 --> 00:34:41,974
the random reward. You see your, a great

987
00:34:41,974 --> 00:34:43,414
text message come in and you see a

988
00:34:43,414 --> 00:34:45,094
great email come in or, and it lights

989
00:34:45,094 --> 00:34:46,855
you up and a friend you haven't spoken

990
00:34:46,855 --> 00:34:48,135
to in a long time, there's so much

991
00:34:48,135 --> 00:34:50,519
of that available there. There's an endless infinite

992
00:34:50,519 --> 00:34:52,599
supply of that there. There is so much

993
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:54,679
there that you can never be fully satisfied

994
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:55,260
with it.

995
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,400
And so if you go down that slippery

996
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,420
slope, we just end up on these dopamine

997
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,039
addiction chains. And it is I have just

998
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:03,239
found for myself, it is

999
00:35:04,055 --> 00:35:05,815
it's not where I wanna be spending most

1000
00:35:05,815 --> 00:35:07,494
of my time and it's hard for everybody.

1001
00:35:07,494 --> 00:35:09,335
That's not easy at all. I have a

1002
00:35:09,335 --> 00:35:10,315
question about

1003
00:35:10,695 --> 00:35:12,235
change and transformation.

1004
00:35:13,175 --> 00:35:14,934
You know, the tagline at Hoffman is when

1005
00:35:14,934 --> 00:35:16,394
you're serious about change.

1006
00:35:17,369 --> 00:35:19,549
And one of the things that I

1007
00:35:19,849 --> 00:35:20,909
am constantly

1008
00:35:21,769 --> 00:35:23,630
noodling about in my head is

1009
00:35:23,929 --> 00:35:26,089
what does it mean to change and how

1010
00:35:26,089 --> 00:35:27,150
do we change?

1011
00:35:27,449 --> 00:35:30,010
And I think part of the problem, I'm

1012
00:35:30,010 --> 00:35:32,175
curious about your take on this. Part of

1013
00:35:32,175 --> 00:35:34,755
the problem is people really don't understand

1014
00:35:35,695 --> 00:35:38,815
what change is and how to change. And

1015
00:35:38,815 --> 00:35:41,555
so oftentimes we hear the before and after,

1016
00:35:41,695 --> 00:35:44,094
but we don't hear the messy middle. You'll

1017
00:35:44,094 --> 00:35:46,320
hear people say, Oh, yeah, I used to,

1018
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,480
I was depressed, but you know, I figured

1019
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,660
it out and they'll give some maybe pithy

1020
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:53,300
response, but you don't fully

1021
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,140
see or experience

1022
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,340
or understand

1023
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,820
the journey

1024
00:35:59,385 --> 00:36:01,465
that people take. And so I I'm just

1025
00:36:01,465 --> 00:36:03,565
thinking about film and story

1026
00:36:04,025 --> 00:36:07,144
and how could we help people? If I

1027
00:36:07,144 --> 00:36:07,885
were pitching,

1028
00:36:08,184 --> 00:36:09,164
it'd be like,

1029
00:36:09,465 --> 00:36:12,824
let's do a film that gives people an

1030
00:36:12,824 --> 00:36:13,324
insight

1031
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:15,369
into what change really looks

1032
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:17,430
like. I'm wrestling with how to think about

1033
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:19,670
it. I've been studying quite a bit on

1034
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:21,289
psychedelics lately as well,

1035
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:22,170
and

1036
00:36:23,110 --> 00:36:26,170
the application of how psychedelics affect the brain.

1037
00:36:26,494 --> 00:36:27,614
There are many ways to the top of

1038
00:36:27,614 --> 00:36:29,775
the mountain, and there are some ways that

1039
00:36:29,775 --> 00:36:31,535
are, you have to carve a trail and

1040
00:36:31,535 --> 00:36:33,295
other ways that are an elevator to the

1041
00:36:33,295 --> 00:36:33,795
top.

1042
00:36:34,175 --> 00:36:35,775
In some ways, I think like the Hoffman

1043
00:36:35,775 --> 00:36:38,275
process is a week long psychedelic experience.

1044
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:41,500
It's a natural high. It is it's not

1045
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:43,659
even a high maybe high is an appropriate

1046
00:36:43,659 --> 00:36:45,519
word to use, but it is a

1047
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:46,800
process

1048
00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:49,760
that lets you rewrite your programming.

1049
00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:52,539
When we talk about change and does if

1050
00:36:52,539 --> 00:36:54,800
somebody want change or invite change,

1051
00:36:55,175 --> 00:36:56,554
there is some program

1052
00:36:57,014 --> 00:36:59,335
that is in there that somebody might not

1053
00:36:59,335 --> 00:37:00,315
be happy with.

1054
00:37:00,614 --> 00:37:01,974
You can choose to keep it, or you

1055
00:37:01,974 --> 00:37:03,414
can choose to change it if you want

1056
00:37:03,414 --> 00:37:04,855
to, but sometimes if you want to change

1057
00:37:04,855 --> 00:37:06,394
it, you don't know how to change it.

1058
00:37:06,534 --> 00:37:07,275
And so

1059
00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:09,630
digging it out and cleaning the wound and

1060
00:37:09,630 --> 00:37:11,550
addressing it from the root cause and getting

1061
00:37:11,550 --> 00:37:12,609
to the core of it

1062
00:37:12,989 --> 00:37:15,070
lets you heal it properly. Otherwise, you just

1063
00:37:15,070 --> 00:37:16,289
have this open wound forever.

1064
00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:19,489
There's an analogy in the psychedelic space where

1065
00:37:20,355 --> 00:37:22,275
it's as if you've been skiing on a

1066
00:37:22,275 --> 00:37:22,775
mountaintop

1067
00:37:23,155 --> 00:37:24,934
for years and years and years and years,

1068
00:37:25,074 --> 00:37:27,235
and this mountaintop just has, like, all the

1069
00:37:27,235 --> 00:37:28,914
ski tracks that you have put into it,

1070
00:37:28,914 --> 00:37:31,795
and you've built this rut into this mountain.

1071
00:37:31,795 --> 00:37:33,840
And you look down and you, yeah, I

1072
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,519
can make a left turn here at this

1073
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:36,019
tree,

1074
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,800
but it's a big rut. It's really hard

1075
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,099
to get out of that rut.

1076
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:44,160
And the psychedelic experience, as I understand it,

1077
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:44,900
and the

1078
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,519
Hoffman experience as I've as I've experienced it,

1079
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:49,795
is it's like shaking the snow globe.

1080
00:37:50,414 --> 00:37:52,654
And it's like a fresh snowfall has fallen,

1081
00:37:52,654 --> 00:37:54,654
and you're looking at that same mountain top

1082
00:37:54,654 --> 00:37:56,335
and you're looking down and you see that

1083
00:37:56,335 --> 00:37:57,714
same field of trees.

1084
00:37:58,414 --> 00:38:00,335
And now it's like, oh, I can make

1085
00:38:00,335 --> 00:38:02,319
this left turn. This is really easy. And

1086
00:38:02,319 --> 00:38:04,000
maybe I'll make a right turn here instead

1087
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,519
of going behind that tree. I wanna go

1088
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:07,280
in front of that tree. You can chart

1089
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,099
a new course

1090
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,339
with much greater ease

1091
00:38:10,799 --> 00:38:13,380
when you are put in a new mindset,

1092
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,339
a new framework.

1093
00:38:14,875 --> 00:38:17,114
That's my take on what the Hoffman experience

1094
00:38:17,114 --> 00:38:18,954
is doing in some ways in this totally

1095
00:38:18,954 --> 00:38:22,414
sober, but intentionally crafted week long experience

1096
00:38:22,875 --> 00:38:25,535
where you are going in and going into

1097
00:38:25,755 --> 00:38:26,414
the patterns

1098
00:38:26,715 --> 00:38:27,855
that have formed

1099
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,659
and inviting yourself to fill in the snow

1100
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,719
in those tracks and to create new paths

1101
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,400
if you want to. You think you could

1102
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,900
do a good documentary on the process?

1103
00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:39,719
Oh, I think it'd be great. Was this

1104
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,260
all just to get a film? No.

1105
00:38:42,114 --> 00:38:42,855
It's fascinating because

1106
00:38:43,715 --> 00:38:45,414
I was thinking, like, to film

1107
00:38:45,715 --> 00:38:46,695
the transformation

1108
00:38:47,555 --> 00:38:50,195
that happens. But part of the beauty of

1109
00:38:50,195 --> 00:38:52,755
the process is the unknown Yeah. And is

1110
00:38:52,755 --> 00:38:55,715
the reveal of what you're being exposed to

1111
00:38:55,715 --> 00:38:58,500
and the challenges and the just witnessing yourself

1112
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:00,260
overcoming these things that you go through over

1113
00:39:00,260 --> 00:39:01,400
the course of the week.

1114
00:39:01,780 --> 00:39:04,199
So it's I think it'd be a phenomenal

1115
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:07,940
movie to witness the before and after of

1116
00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:09,780
the humans that go through the process. And

1117
00:39:09,780 --> 00:39:11,464
at the same time, I don't know how

1118
00:39:11,464 --> 00:39:13,664
you could do it without showing the process

1119
00:39:13,664 --> 00:39:14,164
itself.

1120
00:39:14,625 --> 00:39:16,565
So it's like a big spoiler alert.

1121
00:39:17,824 --> 00:39:19,125
It's only for alums.

1122
00:39:19,585 --> 00:39:20,724
Only for alums.

1123
00:39:21,105 --> 00:39:22,944
You know, when I see people come, it's

1124
00:39:22,944 --> 00:39:24,964
not as if people have said to themselves,

1125
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:27,210
you know, I've never tried change before. Let

1126
00:39:27,210 --> 00:39:28,190
me try change

1127
00:39:28,489 --> 00:39:30,250
more and more. And I think it's related

1128
00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:32,010
to part of what you're talking around social

1129
00:39:32,010 --> 00:39:34,349
media and the access to information.

1130
00:39:35,289 --> 00:39:37,710
People have tried change before

1131
00:39:38,170 --> 00:39:39,550
and it hasn't worked.

1132
00:39:40,125 --> 00:39:41,664
As a result, what you see

1133
00:39:41,965 --> 00:39:44,065
is some people coming in more disillusioned,

1134
00:39:44,925 --> 00:39:47,025
not believing in their own agency

1135
00:39:47,644 --> 00:39:50,045
to create the life they want. It's kind

1136
00:39:50,045 --> 00:39:50,784
of tragic.

1137
00:39:51,244 --> 00:39:52,764
And I didn't used to see that as

1138
00:39:52,764 --> 00:39:54,545
much. And now you see people

1139
00:39:55,139 --> 00:39:56,440
kind of not believing.

1140
00:39:57,299 --> 00:39:59,960
I've tried everything and Hoffman is

1141
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:02,179
one of the last ones. And thank God

1142
00:40:02,179 --> 00:40:03,000
we can deliver,

1143
00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:05,559
but information is out there,

1144
00:40:06,019 --> 00:40:07,559
but that's not enough.

1145
00:40:07,954 --> 00:40:10,054
We're just living in an age of oversaturation

1146
00:40:10,594 --> 00:40:12,994
in general, and we're overwhelmed with so much

1147
00:40:12,994 --> 00:40:13,494
information.

1148
00:40:14,114 --> 00:40:14,614
And

1149
00:40:14,994 --> 00:40:16,835
I think this is a big shift from

1150
00:40:16,835 --> 00:40:19,094
what the internet and social media have done.

1151
00:40:19,155 --> 00:40:20,695
I remember growing up thinking

1152
00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:24,429
that I did not have expertise in almost

1153
00:40:24,429 --> 00:40:25,250
any subject.

1154
00:40:25,710 --> 00:40:27,150
Right? It's like, oh, you go to the

1155
00:40:27,150 --> 00:40:29,150
experts for a thing about fill in the

1156
00:40:29,150 --> 00:40:29,650
blank.

1157
00:40:29,949 --> 00:40:32,030
And that now everybody's sort of an armchair

1158
00:40:32,030 --> 00:40:34,369
expert on everything. Everybody is expected

1159
00:40:34,914 --> 00:40:36,914
to have a well thought out point of

1160
00:40:36,914 --> 00:40:38,454
view on every single issue

1161
00:40:38,994 --> 00:40:39,494
and

1162
00:40:39,875 --> 00:40:41,554
mental health being one of them and your

1163
00:40:41,554 --> 00:40:43,714
own mental health. And so it's challenging. It

1164
00:40:43,714 --> 00:40:45,875
puts us all in this position of sort

1165
00:40:45,875 --> 00:40:48,214
of like you can't admit to not knowing

1166
00:40:48,275 --> 00:40:50,599
something in today's day and age. When was

1167
00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:51,699
the last time somebody's

1168
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:54,579
in a conversation said, I don't know.

1169
00:40:55,039 --> 00:40:57,199
Right. I cherish that. Right? Just to end

1170
00:40:57,199 --> 00:40:58,579
the frankness of, like,

1171
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:01,760
yeah, this is beyond my let's go find

1172
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:02,500
an expert.

1173
00:41:02,954 --> 00:41:05,114
So what's next for you? You're a grad

1174
00:41:05,114 --> 00:41:07,055
and alum of the process. You're

1175
00:41:07,515 --> 00:41:10,235
engaged in these great conversations in a sauna

1176
00:41:10,235 --> 00:41:13,515
or with friends. You're working a lot. You've

1177
00:41:13,515 --> 00:41:14,655
got lots of hobbies.

1178
00:41:15,035 --> 00:41:16,555
How is life for you and what do

1179
00:41:16,555 --> 00:41:18,094
you see going forward?

1180
00:41:18,539 --> 00:41:20,460
I think for me, it's always the question

1181
00:41:20,460 --> 00:41:22,619
of what is the balance that I'm looking

1182
00:41:22,619 --> 00:41:23,119
for?

1183
00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:27,260
And that's a question I ask very regularly,

1184
00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:28,940
and I feel like I'm always going to

1185
00:41:28,940 --> 00:41:30,380
my own North Star on that and the

1186
00:41:30,380 --> 00:41:32,914
balance between all of the creative projects and

1187
00:41:32,914 --> 00:41:35,635
the personal projects and family and partnership and

1188
00:41:35,635 --> 00:41:37,574
my puppy. You got a puppy.

1189
00:41:37,954 --> 00:41:40,534
Oh my gosh. That's good for mental health.

1190
00:41:40,594 --> 00:41:43,074
Yeah. He's awesome. He's, he's been the best

1191
00:41:43,074 --> 00:41:45,630
medicine for me in countless ways. My team

1192
00:41:45,630 --> 00:41:47,409
and I are in a very ambitious

1193
00:41:47,949 --> 00:41:50,109
stage of I'm directing four films right now

1194
00:41:50,109 --> 00:41:52,269
and advising on another three or four or

1195
00:41:52,269 --> 00:41:53,730
more, lose track sometimes.

1196
00:41:54,030 --> 00:41:55,630
This is like a big push for us

1197
00:41:55,630 --> 00:41:56,690
around these

1198
00:41:57,085 --> 00:41:59,565
stories and ideas that we wanna put out

1199
00:41:59,565 --> 00:42:01,164
to the world and hopefully can go and

1200
00:42:01,164 --> 00:42:01,985
affect change.

1201
00:42:02,364 --> 00:42:03,985
And this is our contribution

1202
00:42:04,364 --> 00:42:07,405
to shifting consciousness and to helping people see

1203
00:42:07,405 --> 00:42:09,244
a deeper truth in themselves and the world

1204
00:42:09,244 --> 00:42:10,065
that we are

1205
00:42:10,364 --> 00:42:11,105
we are

1206
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:11,940
inhabiting.

1207
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,559
If you think about the impact you've had,

1208
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:17,840
the idea that climate change was hard for

1209
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:18,820
people to accept

1210
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:22,420
and film has changed the narrative on that

1211
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,619
and storytelling that you've done. And then

1212
00:42:26,025 --> 00:42:27,724
all the what social dilemma

1213
00:42:28,264 --> 00:42:30,284
created around the cost of

1214
00:42:30,585 --> 00:42:31,484
social media.

1215
00:42:31,784 --> 00:42:33,804
Those are some pretty impactful

1216
00:42:34,424 --> 00:42:37,565
topics you hit. Yeah. Thank you. I think

1217
00:42:38,180 --> 00:42:39,940
these are the biggest issues of our time.

1218
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:42,340
These are the biggest stories that we need

1219
00:42:42,340 --> 00:42:43,400
to shed a light on.

1220
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:46,260
I feel blessed, and I feel the burden

1221
00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:48,019
at the same time of of the work

1222
00:42:48,019 --> 00:42:49,940
that we do. For our whole team, I

1223
00:42:49,940 --> 00:42:51,220
really just look at it as, like, this

1224
00:42:51,220 --> 00:42:52,039
is our contribution.

1225
00:42:52,414 --> 00:42:54,255
How do we shed light on these issues

1226
00:42:54,255 --> 00:42:55,155
and these subjects?

1227
00:42:55,534 --> 00:42:57,775
And there's no shortage of stories. We need

1228
00:42:57,775 --> 00:42:59,534
this over and over and over again. There's

1229
00:42:59,534 --> 00:43:01,855
no competition here. You know, many of the

1230
00:43:01,855 --> 00:43:04,894
greatest teachings, the the references practices. Like, there's

1231
00:43:04,894 --> 00:43:07,714
a yoga practice or meditation practice or

1232
00:43:08,090 --> 00:43:10,570
because there's never perfection. You're always working on

1233
00:43:10,570 --> 00:43:11,070
it

1234
00:43:11,690 --> 00:43:13,610
as a society and as a culture, we

1235
00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:16,090
need the we need to be surrounded by

1236
00:43:16,090 --> 00:43:18,110
the right influences and the right narratives.

1237
00:43:18,809 --> 00:43:20,250
And I think that's what we're stuck in

1238
00:43:20,250 --> 00:43:22,954
in a huge way right now, as capitalism

1239
00:43:22,954 --> 00:43:25,594
has taken over everything and and bought politics.

1240
00:43:25,594 --> 00:43:26,094
And

1241
00:43:26,474 --> 00:43:29,275
the entire information ecosystem that we're stuck in

1242
00:43:29,275 --> 00:43:32,635
is warped and distorted from kind of the

1243
00:43:32,635 --> 00:43:34,414
fundamental truths of nature.

1244
00:43:34,875 --> 00:43:36,300
And how do we get back to that?

1245
00:43:36,380 --> 00:43:38,300
And what are those stories that help connect

1246
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:39,280
us with

1247
00:43:39,579 --> 00:43:41,660
that? It's a hard thing to shake people

1248
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:43,599
out of because it's kind of a fog

1249
00:43:43,980 --> 00:43:46,940
that has clouded our view of things and

1250
00:43:46,940 --> 00:43:48,719
to wake people up from that

1251
00:43:49,099 --> 00:43:51,434
requires a lot. I think that's one of

1252
00:43:51,434 --> 00:43:53,515
the things that people, maybe for the first

1253
00:43:53,515 --> 00:43:55,755
time might tap into during Hoffman when you

1254
00:43:55,755 --> 00:43:57,835
don't have your phone and technology for a

1255
00:43:57,835 --> 00:43:59,355
week. And when you're not caught up in

1256
00:43:59,355 --> 00:44:01,515
the story of what I need to do

1257
00:44:01,515 --> 00:44:03,434
to make a living to survive in the

1258
00:44:03,434 --> 00:44:06,030
system. The system of capitalism isn't one of

1259
00:44:06,190 --> 00:44:07,409
freedom. It's the opposite.

1260
00:44:07,710 --> 00:44:10,110
We are all enslaved to the system, and

1261
00:44:10,110 --> 00:44:12,110
we have to run the rat race just

1262
00:44:12,110 --> 00:44:13,869
to survive to in order to eat food

1263
00:44:13,869 --> 00:44:14,849
and not be homeless.

1264
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:16,289
Like, you have to

1265
00:44:16,590 --> 00:44:18,590
engage in the rules and the game of

1266
00:44:18,590 --> 00:44:19,170
the system

1267
00:44:19,545 --> 00:44:21,625
just to get by. And we're forced to

1268
00:44:21,625 --> 00:44:23,565
accept that. That's the world that we're in.

1269
00:44:23,625 --> 00:44:26,444
Despite the illusion or the messaging

1270
00:44:27,065 --> 00:44:29,545
that it's good for you and you do

1271
00:44:29,545 --> 00:44:32,025
have a say and free will choice, it

1272
00:44:32,105 --> 00:44:33,085
it's an illusion.

1273
00:44:33,570 --> 00:44:35,809
And when you are there for a week

1274
00:44:35,809 --> 00:44:36,550
with people

1275
00:44:37,090 --> 00:44:38,150
not talking about

1276
00:44:38,530 --> 00:44:39,030
the

1277
00:44:39,489 --> 00:44:42,390
social hierarchy status of money or

1278
00:44:42,690 --> 00:44:44,230
careers or politics,

1279
00:44:44,530 --> 00:44:46,930
and you're not on your devices connected to

1280
00:44:46,930 --> 00:44:49,114
an infinite supply of doom

1281
00:44:49,655 --> 00:44:50,155
scrolling,

1282
00:44:50,614 --> 00:44:52,454
you tap into what does it mean to

1283
00:44:52,454 --> 00:44:54,934
be human again? Like how to actually live

1284
00:44:54,934 --> 00:44:56,074
with other human beings

1285
00:44:56,534 --> 00:44:59,434
in a pursuit of love and self reflection

1286
00:44:59,574 --> 00:45:00,074
and

1287
00:45:00,695 --> 00:45:01,434
self fulfillment.

1288
00:45:01,974 --> 00:45:02,474
And

1289
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,760
if for no other reason, just for that,

1290
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,380
just to be able to taste a glimpse

1291
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,420
of

1292
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,480
what it means to be fully alive as

1293
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,380
a human being. That's the thing that I

1294
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,300
spend my time moving towards.

1295
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:16,679
Well, maybe that's our new tagline, the Hoffman

1296
00:45:16,679 --> 00:45:19,474
process, what it means to be fully alive.

1297
00:45:20,174 --> 00:45:22,514
Yeah. When I sit back and think about,

1298
00:45:23,054 --> 00:45:25,234
you know, I've had many beautiful,

1299
00:45:25,534 --> 00:45:28,734
deep experiences in life in different formats and

1300
00:45:28,734 --> 00:45:30,910
styles across the board, but I think they

1301
00:45:30,910 --> 00:45:33,489
all have that thing in common. It is

1302
00:45:33,949 --> 00:45:35,949
wanting to seek out and be present as

1303
00:45:35,949 --> 00:45:37,010
a living being

1304
00:45:37,710 --> 00:45:39,630
that doesn't need to do anything to prove

1305
00:45:39,630 --> 00:45:40,610
anything to anybody.

1306
00:45:40,989 --> 00:45:41,650
You are

1307
00:45:41,985 --> 00:45:44,065
complete and whole as you are. You are

1308
00:45:44,065 --> 00:45:44,565
enough.

1309
00:45:45,025 --> 00:45:47,365
You are worthy of love and affection,

1310
00:45:47,744 --> 00:45:49,744
and you can share that with others, and

1311
00:45:49,744 --> 00:45:51,905
you can be present through that. Like, is

1312
00:45:51,905 --> 00:45:53,905
that not just, like, the most perfect that

1313
00:45:53,905 --> 00:45:55,505
just I just want that. I wanna put

1314
00:45:55,505 --> 00:45:57,025
that in a little box and just keep

1315
00:45:57,025 --> 00:45:58,840
it in my heart. And that's that is

1316
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,699
the practice. I think that's ultimately

1317
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:02,780
what Hoffman is

1318
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:05,260
trying to give us a window towards.

1319
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,639
And there are many, many ways that people

1320
00:46:07,639 --> 00:46:09,420
can find those things for themselves.

1321
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:10,380
But

1322
00:46:10,695 --> 00:46:12,454
isn't that the point like isn't that the

1323
00:46:12,454 --> 00:46:15,094
whole point, Jeff? Thank you so much. I

1324
00:46:15,094 --> 00:46:16,155
love this conversation.

1325
00:46:16,454 --> 00:46:17,594
Thank you for your presence.

1326
00:46:25,550 --> 00:46:27,630
Thank you for listening to our podcast. My

1327
00:46:27,630 --> 00:46:30,030
name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and

1328
00:46:30,030 --> 00:46:32,130
president of Hoffman Institute Foundation.

1329
00:46:32,590 --> 00:46:33,889
And I'm Razi Ingrassi,

1330
00:46:34,510 --> 00:46:37,550
Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute

1331
00:46:37,550 --> 00:46:38,050
Foundation.

1332
00:46:38,755 --> 00:46:41,574
Our mission is to provide people greater access

1333
00:46:41,635 --> 00:46:44,034
to the wisdom and power of love. In

1334
00:46:44,034 --> 00:46:46,614
themselves, in each other and in the world.

1335
00:46:46,835 --> 00:46:50,534
To find out more, please go to hoffmaninstitute.org.