1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,120 When I realized that shame, I felt that, 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,080 you know, burning fire on my on my 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,559 face, on my neck. I didn't escape. I 4 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:10,719 think that's the first time I didn't escape 5 00:00:10,719 --> 00:00:12,179 from my shame, 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,539 the pain caused by it. I stayed there 7 00:00:16,274 --> 00:00:16,774 and 8 00:00:17,795 --> 00:00:18,774 magic happens. 9 00:00:20,035 --> 00:00:22,835 Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and 10 00:00:22,835 --> 00:00:25,894 this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius. 11 00:00:26,595 --> 00:00:28,614 It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute, 12 00:00:28,835 --> 00:00:31,660 and it's stories and anecdotes 13 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,739 and people we interview 14 00:00:34,199 --> 00:00:36,840 about their life post process and how it 15 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,500 lives in the world radiating love. 16 00:00:47,534 --> 00:00:48,354 Raul Raul. 17 00:00:49,295 --> 00:00:49,795 Welcome. 18 00:00:50,335 --> 00:00:53,134 Hi, Drew. It is so good to have 19 00:00:53,134 --> 00:00:55,774 you here. I feel so privileged to be 20 00:00:55,774 --> 00:00:57,875 here. Interviewed by you, my teacher. 21 00:00:58,255 --> 00:01:00,255 Yeah. So just just a little bit of 22 00:01:00,255 --> 00:01:03,370 a context. We are in China. We're just 23 00:01:03,370 --> 00:01:04,750 just outside Shanghai. 24 00:01:05,290 --> 00:01:08,430 Yes. And I'm here to support your 25 00:01:09,209 --> 00:01:09,709 cohort, 26 00:01:10,250 --> 00:01:11,630 the first ever cohort 27 00:01:12,329 --> 00:01:15,549 in a training Yeah. To be Hoffman teachers 28 00:01:15,814 --> 00:01:17,515 to For China. For China 29 00:01:17,974 --> 00:01:21,355 to open an institute in China. Never before 30 00:01:21,575 --> 00:01:23,754 has an institute been in China. 31 00:01:24,135 --> 00:01:25,594 What are we, four days in? 32 00:01:26,135 --> 00:01:28,290 We are yeah. The fourth day of the 33 00:01:28,290 --> 00:01:30,530 six day workshop. Fourth day of the six 34 00:01:30,530 --> 00:01:32,390 day workshop. Okay. So, 35 00:01:32,769 --> 00:01:34,930 would you introduce yourself a little bit? Tell 36 00:01:34,930 --> 00:01:36,149 us a little bit about 37 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:37,430 who you are. 38 00:01:38,450 --> 00:01:40,129 Who am I? Yeah. You know, this is 39 00:01:40,129 --> 00:01:42,534 a question people ask when you peel off 40 00:01:42,534 --> 00:01:45,415 all your tags and really who you are, 41 00:01:45,415 --> 00:01:47,194 but I will use tags. 42 00:01:48,215 --> 00:01:51,094 I'm a mother of two beautiful girls. I'm 43 00:01:51,094 --> 00:01:51,834 a wife. 44 00:01:52,855 --> 00:01:55,355 I'm a I'm the CEO of the upcoming 45 00:01:55,655 --> 00:01:59,229 Hoffman China Institute. I'm also a Hoffman teacher 46 00:01:59,229 --> 00:01:59,729 trainee 47 00:02:00,189 --> 00:02:02,769 being trained by Chris Sternjoo right now. 48 00:02:03,229 --> 00:02:04,689 When did you do your process? 49 00:02:05,629 --> 00:02:06,609 Last summer. 50 00:02:07,469 --> 00:02:09,810 June. 51 00:02:10,270 --> 00:02:11,889 June 52 00:02:12,270 --> 00:02:13,009 last summer. 53 00:02:13,435 --> 00:02:15,435 Your story is interesting in how you came 54 00:02:15,435 --> 00:02:16,094 to Hoffman 55 00:02:16,474 --> 00:02:18,814 and why you took the process. 56 00:02:19,914 --> 00:02:21,614 Well, I think in short, 57 00:02:22,394 --> 00:02:23,775 Hoffman found me. 58 00:02:24,555 --> 00:02:27,375 Life pushed me to Hoffman. But the story 59 00:02:27,514 --> 00:02:28,254 is like, 60 00:02:29,330 --> 00:02:32,129 I've been working in the business world for 61 00:02:32,129 --> 00:02:33,349 nearly twenty years. 62 00:02:33,729 --> 00:02:35,889 At the point, I felt I need more 63 00:02:35,889 --> 00:02:36,949 meaning and 64 00:02:37,729 --> 00:02:38,229 fulfillment 65 00:02:38,610 --> 00:02:41,030 from working, and I couldn't get it in 66 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:44,585 my past roles. So I basically, like, retired 67 00:02:44,724 --> 00:02:46,104 from the corporate world 68 00:02:46,405 --> 00:02:48,344 for a couple of years just exploring 69 00:02:48,884 --> 00:02:52,585 new things and also start intensive internal work. 70 00:02:53,044 --> 00:02:55,064 And at the beginning of last year, 71 00:02:55,525 --> 00:02:58,050 very interesting, one of my friend recommend me 72 00:02:58,050 --> 00:02:58,550 to 73 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:00,389 join one of Bo's, 74 00:03:01,010 --> 00:03:01,909 offline sharing. 75 00:03:02,370 --> 00:03:04,530 So tell me more about Bo. Who is 76 00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:06,930 this guy Bo that is bringing Hoffman to 77 00:03:06,930 --> 00:03:07,430 China? 78 00:03:08,129 --> 00:03:10,310 So Bo is a very successful 79 00:03:11,105 --> 00:03:12,165 serial entrepreneur 80 00:03:12,705 --> 00:03:14,405 and later on venture capitalist. 81 00:03:15,105 --> 00:03:16,885 But then I think since 82 00:03:17,504 --> 00:03:18,405 2018, 83 00:03:19,025 --> 00:03:22,245 he left the, you know, the venture capital. 84 00:03:22,705 --> 00:03:23,685 He cofounded 85 00:03:24,064 --> 00:03:25,444 Matrix and then, 86 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:27,340 invest his own money 87 00:03:28,199 --> 00:03:30,379 to start it Evolve Foundation, 88 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:32,219 which is aims for 89 00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:35,180 increase the happiness of the whole 90 00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:38,860 society and increase the conscious level of humanity. 91 00:03:39,465 --> 00:03:42,844 The Evolve Foundation invested in, you know, meditation 92 00:03:42,905 --> 00:03:43,405 labs, 93 00:03:43,784 --> 00:03:46,764 parenting labs, things like that. And 94 00:03:47,385 --> 00:03:49,405 Bo took the process, I think, 95 00:03:49,784 --> 00:03:51,564 around eighty years ago. Actually, 96 00:03:51,939 --> 00:03:54,039 his wife took the process first. 97 00:03:54,419 --> 00:03:56,659 And he told me that when he pick 98 00:03:56,659 --> 00:03:59,159 up his wife at end of the process, 99 00:03:59,699 --> 00:04:02,199 the first sight he saw her, he thinks, 100 00:04:02,259 --> 00:04:02,759 wow. 101 00:04:03,139 --> 00:04:04,280 She looks different. 102 00:04:05,375 --> 00:04:07,935 How magical this process is. I wanna try. 103 00:04:07,935 --> 00:04:09,694 That's why he he went to the pros, 104 00:04:09,694 --> 00:04:12,435 and they helped him a lot. Since then, 105 00:04:12,574 --> 00:04:15,455 he had this idea of bringing this to 106 00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:17,935 China. And I think at the beginning of, 107 00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:21,620 last year, he started to talk with RAS, 108 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:22,660 with Volker. 109 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,460 They had some discussions of the possibility. 110 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:27,540 And then later on, 111 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,060 Caroline met me. 112 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,520 I agreed to have a try, and then 113 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:32,180 I committed. 114 00:04:32,524 --> 00:04:34,685 So that's how we started the whole thing, 115 00:04:34,685 --> 00:04:37,884 and board generously founded the whole thing. You 116 00:04:37,884 --> 00:04:39,824 need to invest a lot at the upfront 117 00:04:39,884 --> 00:04:42,605 to train the teachers. The Hoffman training is 118 00:04:42,605 --> 00:04:44,925 so rigorous, and we need to learn so 119 00:04:44,925 --> 00:04:47,740 much. And we have to learn in English, 120 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:50,279 so we have to fly again again to 121 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,520 US, and US teachers have to fly again 122 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,939 again to China. That's that's huge investment. 123 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,020 Paul founded all this. 124 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,620 I'm so grateful. 125 00:04:59,964 --> 00:05:02,365 So he was doing one of the his 126 00:05:02,365 --> 00:05:03,105 own sharing 127 00:05:03,485 --> 00:05:06,204 offline in Beijing, so I was recommended to 128 00:05:06,204 --> 00:05:06,944 join that 129 00:05:07,404 --> 00:05:07,904 salon. 130 00:05:08,365 --> 00:05:11,185 And on the spot, I saw Caroline. 131 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:12,780 We were 132 00:05:13,319 --> 00:05:16,040 colleagues, like, a decade ago. So I never 133 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,500 never seen her since we left. Who's Caroline? 134 00:05:19,639 --> 00:05:23,480 Caroline is actually the evolved China head. Oh, 135 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,360 okay. So we, like, reunion, and we we 136 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:26,860 we 137 00:05:27,214 --> 00:05:28,435 had a great conversation. 138 00:05:29,055 --> 00:05:31,235 And afterwards, Caroline has asked me, 139 00:05:31,694 --> 00:05:33,475 we are thinking to bring Hoffman 140 00:05:34,175 --> 00:05:36,895 process to China. We are looking for someone 141 00:05:36,895 --> 00:05:38,754 who can do that. Would you be interested? 142 00:05:39,569 --> 00:05:40,949 That's the first time I've 143 00:05:41,250 --> 00:05:43,889 heard of this. Yep. And so part as 144 00:05:43,889 --> 00:05:44,789 part of that, 145 00:05:45,490 --> 00:05:48,149 she said, would you first take the process? 146 00:05:49,009 --> 00:05:51,250 No. She sent me the link. Oh, okay. 147 00:05:51,250 --> 00:05:53,569 So I searched on website. I was so 148 00:05:53,569 --> 00:05:56,384 touched by the testimonial videos on the on 149 00:05:56,384 --> 00:05:58,084 your website. I see the 150 00:05:58,544 --> 00:05:59,044 light 151 00:05:59,665 --> 00:06:01,504 in the face of the graduates and the 152 00:06:01,504 --> 00:06:03,745 story they're telling about their life is so 153 00:06:03,745 --> 00:06:06,725 touching and moving. And then I deliver research 154 00:06:07,264 --> 00:06:07,925 on LGBT. 155 00:06:09,439 --> 00:06:12,020 It tells me that there are actually mainstream 156 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:12,740 psychological 157 00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:14,100 research papers 158 00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:15,699 demonstrating 159 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,660 how effective it is and why it works. 160 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:19,699 That makes me 161 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,300 have higher interests. 162 00:06:21,834 --> 00:06:23,914 The fact that there was research on it. 163 00:06:23,914 --> 00:06:24,814 Yes. So 164 00:06:25,194 --> 00:06:28,474 Caroline Bo interviewed me. I said, I will 165 00:06:28,474 --> 00:06:31,354 take the process first and see if really 166 00:06:31,354 --> 00:06:34,235 touches me, and I will onboard if it 167 00:06:34,235 --> 00:06:34,735 is. 168 00:06:35,110 --> 00:06:35,850 So that's 169 00:06:36,230 --> 00:06:36,730 how 170 00:06:37,110 --> 00:06:39,509 I come to the process last summer. Okay. 171 00:06:39,509 --> 00:06:42,069 So you do the paperwork. We have a 172 00:06:42,069 --> 00:06:45,189 pre call. Yes. And I remember the the 173 00:06:45,189 --> 00:06:45,930 pre call. 174 00:06:46,389 --> 00:06:47,110 I was actually 175 00:06:47,834 --> 00:06:49,915 tears burst out on my eyes even during 176 00:06:49,915 --> 00:06:52,154 that half an hour prequel. So you were 177 00:06:52,154 --> 00:06:52,654 ready? 178 00:06:53,115 --> 00:06:55,214 I'm so ready. I've been exploring 179 00:06:55,834 --> 00:06:58,235 my inner world for almost seven years at 180 00:06:58,235 --> 00:07:00,095 that point. I've been to Vipassana 181 00:07:01,050 --> 00:07:04,490 retreat. I've been practicing Vipassana every day for 182 00:07:04,490 --> 00:07:06,509 over half a year already at that time. 183 00:07:06,889 --> 00:07:09,370 Until you show up on-site, or, you know, 184 00:07:09,370 --> 00:07:11,230 the other side of the world. Yeah. 185 00:07:11,610 --> 00:07:15,069 And what happens? Take us into your process. 186 00:07:16,044 --> 00:07:18,384 Some moments in time that stick out. 187 00:07:18,925 --> 00:07:22,305 Battling jet lag or the language barrier. 188 00:07:22,925 --> 00:07:24,625 Yeah. Language barrier, definitely. 189 00:07:25,245 --> 00:07:27,644 I have no problem listening to teachers in 190 00:07:27,644 --> 00:07:28,384 the classroom, 191 00:07:28,849 --> 00:07:31,329 but I couldn't follow the small talks during 192 00:07:31,329 --> 00:07:34,229 the dinner and lunch. I still wanted to 193 00:07:34,529 --> 00:07:36,310 get acquainted with my classmates. 194 00:07:37,089 --> 00:07:39,649 I follow two people chatting with each other. 195 00:07:39,649 --> 00:07:41,409 I can follow, but then suddenly, the third 196 00:07:41,409 --> 00:07:44,254 person jumping in and the topics drew away, 197 00:07:44,254 --> 00:07:46,415 and I was got lost. I'm like, what 198 00:07:46,415 --> 00:07:47,714 they were talking about? 199 00:07:48,014 --> 00:07:50,254 Yeah. That caused a lot of my patterns, 200 00:07:50,254 --> 00:07:50,754 actually. 201 00:07:51,134 --> 00:07:52,895 The fact that you couldn't quite track what 202 00:07:52,895 --> 00:07:55,875 was happening in the conversations over the mealtime. 203 00:07:56,279 --> 00:07:57,960 They all know each other so well after 204 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,199 several meals, but I felt I was left 205 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:02,540 alone. And then I think the first, 206 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:04,220 like, lightning moment 207 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,500 is during one on one. You told me 208 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,980 that you are such a nice girl, 209 00:08:10,439 --> 00:08:11,259 always smiling, 210 00:08:11,805 --> 00:08:14,524 pleasing others. But you know what? You didn't 211 00:08:14,524 --> 00:08:17,024 give any space for yourself to grow inside. 212 00:08:17,805 --> 00:08:19,185 You need to be messier. 213 00:08:19,725 --> 00:08:21,985 That's you too. And then it's like, what? 214 00:08:22,444 --> 00:08:24,764 I need to be messier first? And I 215 00:08:24,764 --> 00:08:27,240 never thought about that. Because when I, like, 216 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,180 doing my Vipassana, I was thinking, 217 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,259 get to the place where 218 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,360 no ego. You know what I'm saying? I 219 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,540 want to get out of all the sufferings 220 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,360 so I know our ego is the cause 221 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,600 of the all these sufferings. I need to 222 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,065 be there. But then suddenly someone tell me, 223 00:08:43,365 --> 00:08:45,445 you didn't let yourself grow first. There is 224 00:08:45,445 --> 00:08:47,285 no way to go there. You need to 225 00:08:47,285 --> 00:08:48,585 really grow yourself. 226 00:08:48,965 --> 00:08:51,365 Speak up for your needs. Do what you 227 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:53,845 want instead of only doing what you think 228 00:08:53,845 --> 00:08:54,745 you should do. 229 00:08:55,259 --> 00:08:57,660 Rah, Rah, you're saying something interesting here is 230 00:08:57,660 --> 00:09:00,160 that your history of being in Vipassana, 231 00:09:01,019 --> 00:09:03,420 where the death of the ego Yeah. And 232 00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:05,899 you thought that's what we're doing here. And 233 00:09:05,899 --> 00:09:06,399 yet, 234 00:09:06,779 --> 00:09:08,800 here your teacher is telling you, actually, 235 00:09:09,215 --> 00:09:11,455 wait. You're not gonna get all this neat 236 00:09:11,455 --> 00:09:13,634 kind of stuff. First, you gotta get messy. 237 00:09:13,934 --> 00:09:16,975 Yes. Okay. So then what happened? I'm a 238 00:09:16,975 --> 00:09:19,695 good student. I like I devote myself into 239 00:09:19,695 --> 00:09:22,095 all the activities teachers asked to do, and 240 00:09:22,095 --> 00:09:23,235 I really, really 241 00:09:23,774 --> 00:09:24,274 enjoyed 242 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:28,639 almost every moment of the seven days. But 243 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:29,779 the magic moment 244 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,220 on day four in the compassion experience, 245 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,399 I was on the garden rock under a 246 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:38,820 beautiful big tree doing meditation. 247 00:09:39,274 --> 00:09:42,095 I was cheering up because during my meditation, 248 00:09:43,035 --> 00:09:45,754 I literally see I am doing the Hoffman 249 00:09:45,754 --> 00:09:48,394 process. I'm bringing it to China and see 250 00:09:48,394 --> 00:09:51,054 how it changed a lot of people's life. 251 00:09:51,274 --> 00:09:52,575 So I was so certain 252 00:09:53,039 --> 00:09:54,820 this is it. This is something 253 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:56,899 that I've been looking for 254 00:09:57,279 --> 00:09:58,179 for so long. 255 00:09:58,639 --> 00:09:59,139 And 256 00:09:59,919 --> 00:10:02,080 when I finished my meditation, when I opened 257 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,019 my eyes, a black eagle 258 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,720 flew through my side and up to the 259 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,220 sky. 260 00:10:07,625 --> 00:10:09,084 And it was so magic 261 00:10:09,464 --> 00:10:11,804 because I was falling in love with eagles 262 00:10:12,424 --> 00:10:14,445 the first time I was on that side. 263 00:10:14,584 --> 00:10:17,065 During every break of the class, I went 264 00:10:17,065 --> 00:10:18,125 out of the classroom, 265 00:10:18,504 --> 00:10:20,424 I look upon. I want to see the 266 00:10:20,424 --> 00:10:22,445 eagles. When I see them playing, 267 00:10:22,990 --> 00:10:23,809 it's so beautiful. 268 00:10:25,070 --> 00:10:26,290 It is so free. 269 00:10:27,629 --> 00:10:28,769 It is so grace. 270 00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:31,870 So when I open my eyes, the ego 271 00:10:31,870 --> 00:10:33,490 flies through by my side. 272 00:10:34,029 --> 00:10:34,690 I know 273 00:10:35,144 --> 00:10:36,925 this is the signal that universe 274 00:10:37,384 --> 00:10:38,285 give it to me. 275 00:10:38,665 --> 00:10:41,465 And you're not talking metaphorically, Raarau. The eagle 276 00:10:41,465 --> 00:10:44,504 actually flew right next to you. Yes. I 277 00:10:44,504 --> 00:10:48,149 literally felt the wind that caused by its 278 00:10:48,149 --> 00:10:49,129 flow of flying. 279 00:10:49,589 --> 00:10:52,336 He was that close. That close. Yes. Like 280 00:10:52,389 --> 00:10:54,329 felt the wind. Yes. Wow. 281 00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:56,950 And I actually have no idea. Probably, he 282 00:10:56,950 --> 00:10:59,190 stayed by my side for a for a 283 00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:59,684 while. 284 00:11:00,004 --> 00:11:01,865 And so this idea 285 00:11:02,725 --> 00:11:03,225 of 286 00:11:03,684 --> 00:11:07,065 you having this vision of bringing the process 287 00:11:07,205 --> 00:11:07,945 to China, 288 00:11:08,965 --> 00:11:11,945 it felt like the ego was saying yes. 289 00:11:12,164 --> 00:11:13,384 Yes. It's confirming 290 00:11:14,085 --> 00:11:14,825 what I've 291 00:11:15,370 --> 00:11:16,669 seen in my meditation. 292 00:11:17,129 --> 00:11:18,829 And so you took that as a sign? 293 00:11:19,129 --> 00:11:20,009 Yes. I think that's, 294 00:11:20,809 --> 00:11:23,230 definitely, it's a sign from the universe 295 00:11:23,850 --> 00:11:25,230 telling me to say yes 296 00:11:25,610 --> 00:11:26,589 and to devote 297 00:11:27,534 --> 00:11:29,534 the following years of my life to this 298 00:11:29,534 --> 00:11:30,595 work. Beautiful. 299 00:11:31,294 --> 00:11:32,514 One of the things that 300 00:11:33,134 --> 00:11:34,914 you also did is you also 301 00:11:35,455 --> 00:11:37,934 it wasn't just about your future and your 302 00:11:37,934 --> 00:11:38,434 professional 303 00:11:39,134 --> 00:11:41,909 visioning that you had, but you also went 304 00:11:41,909 --> 00:11:44,490 deep into the work in the inner work. 305 00:11:44,709 --> 00:11:47,129 And you went into your past and Yeah. 306 00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:49,750 That's right. Some of your childhood stuff. What 307 00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:50,649 did you learn? 308 00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:53,449 I remember during our pre call, 309 00:11:54,075 --> 00:11:56,475 I think at the first few sentences, you 310 00:11:56,475 --> 00:11:57,134 told me, 311 00:11:57,915 --> 00:11:59,054 when you were little, 312 00:11:59,355 --> 00:12:01,995 you were left out alone for so many 313 00:12:01,995 --> 00:12:04,254 times for such a long period of time. 314 00:12:04,795 --> 00:12:07,375 And that single sentence made me cry. 315 00:12:08,029 --> 00:12:09,809 Like, I realized, wow. 316 00:12:11,070 --> 00:12:13,790 As a little child, so how lonely I 317 00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:16,290 have been. Yeah. And I was just really 318 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:18,929 feeding back your paperwork to you. Right? 319 00:12:19,230 --> 00:12:21,649 Yes. You had put it in your paperwork. 320 00:12:22,184 --> 00:12:24,365 Okay. So lots of time alone. 321 00:12:25,304 --> 00:12:27,865 And then what else? I I think there 322 00:12:27,865 --> 00:12:29,404 was a story about grades 323 00:12:30,184 --> 00:12:32,345 and Yes. Coming home. Can you share that 324 00:12:32,345 --> 00:12:34,024 story when you were little? How old were 325 00:12:34,024 --> 00:12:36,610 you? When I was six years old, that's 326 00:12:36,610 --> 00:12:37,350 the first 327 00:12:37,730 --> 00:12:41,029 big exam after I entered the elementary school. 328 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:42,470 There are two exams. 329 00:12:42,850 --> 00:12:44,230 I got 98. 330 00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:45,830 Just to confirm this, 331 00:12:46,210 --> 00:12:49,345 six years old. Yes. There's two big exams 332 00:12:49,585 --> 00:12:52,384 Yes. Nationally in China. Oh, well, no. In 333 00:12:52,384 --> 00:12:54,945 the school. So every student took that exam, 334 00:12:54,945 --> 00:12:56,485 one math, one Chinese. 335 00:12:57,105 --> 00:12:58,325 Wow. At six. 336 00:12:58,865 --> 00:13:00,865 Well, we have exams at the end of 337 00:13:00,865 --> 00:13:01,684 every semester. 338 00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:04,990 They used to rank students by their scores 339 00:13:05,290 --> 00:13:07,529 when I was at my school age, but 340 00:13:07,529 --> 00:13:09,450 nowadays, it's not allowed. Oh, they're not allowed 341 00:13:09,450 --> 00:13:12,509 to anymore? No. It's doing harm to students. 342 00:13:12,730 --> 00:13:14,910 Yes. It's caused too many anxiety. 343 00:13:15,485 --> 00:13:18,125 But back then, score is huge in the 344 00:13:18,125 --> 00:13:19,985 exams. So you come home 345 00:13:20,445 --> 00:13:22,764 with two ninety eights. Yeah. So the total 346 00:13:22,764 --> 00:13:25,245 score is 100 for each. I got two 347 00:13:25,245 --> 00:13:28,524 ninety eight. I actually was very happy. I 348 00:13:28,524 --> 00:13:31,370 remember me, like, almost jumping back home, you 349 00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:33,789 know, singing, jumping, thinking, wow. 350 00:13:34,490 --> 00:13:36,490 I'm going to tell mom. She will way 351 00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:38,730 home. Yeah. She will praise me. You know? 352 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:40,669 I probably get a hug from her. 353 00:13:41,289 --> 00:13:43,605 But then I never thought that there is 354 00:13:43,605 --> 00:13:45,684 no hug. There is no praise. I couldn't 355 00:13:45,684 --> 00:13:48,164 even sit on the chair. I was standing 356 00:13:48,164 --> 00:13:51,125 there. I think she's scolding me for almost, 357 00:13:51,125 --> 00:13:53,304 like, half an hour. She's asking, 358 00:13:53,764 --> 00:13:55,924 why did you lose two scores in each 359 00:13:55,924 --> 00:13:56,904 of these exams? 360 00:13:57,429 --> 00:13:59,450 Why didn't you get to 100? 361 00:14:00,149 --> 00:14:02,730 Instead of 98. Instead of 98. 362 00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:04,490 I think that moment 363 00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:08,550 prongs the seed of in me of you 364 00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:09,929 shouldn't make any mistake. 365 00:14:10,235 --> 00:14:12,335 And if you made even a tiny 366 00:14:12,875 --> 00:14:14,654 mistake, you will be punished. 367 00:14:15,115 --> 00:14:16,415 You will not be recognized. 368 00:14:16,955 --> 00:14:18,955 Probably at that time, I think I felt 369 00:14:18,955 --> 00:14:19,855 I'm unloved. 370 00:14:20,475 --> 00:14:21,215 I'm unlovable. 371 00:14:22,075 --> 00:14:23,695 I need to get her love 372 00:14:24,315 --> 00:14:25,134 only if 373 00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:26,879 I make no mistake, 374 00:14:27,259 --> 00:14:28,639 get to 100, 375 00:14:28,940 --> 00:14:30,080 be the top one, 376 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:31,840 be the number one 377 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:34,080 in everywhere I am. 378 00:14:34,620 --> 00:14:36,940 I would say that's a huge drive in 379 00:14:36,940 --> 00:14:39,440 my little life. I think by which 380 00:14:40,705 --> 00:14:43,024 I went to the best university in China. 381 00:14:43,024 --> 00:14:44,644 I also went to the best university 382 00:14:45,024 --> 00:14:48,144 of the world. I had my career success 383 00:14:48,144 --> 00:14:48,644 at 384 00:14:49,024 --> 00:14:51,024 the early thirties. I was in the top, 385 00:14:51,024 --> 00:14:53,024 you know, consulting firm, earning a lot of 386 00:14:53,024 --> 00:14:53,524 money, 387 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,419 things like that. So that six year old 388 00:14:56,799 --> 00:14:58,019 learned that lesson 389 00:14:58,639 --> 00:15:01,279 Yes. And learned it really well. In my 390 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:05,299 blood. In my blood. Before 18, before the 391 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:07,299 college entrance exam, 392 00:15:07,995 --> 00:15:09,835 When I look back, like, every day, I 393 00:15:09,835 --> 00:15:12,715 live under anxiety. That's that's a background noise 394 00:15:12,715 --> 00:15:13,615 always there. 395 00:15:14,235 --> 00:15:16,654 Do not make mistake. Be the number one. 396 00:15:16,794 --> 00:15:18,575 If you cannot get into Tsinghua, 397 00:15:19,115 --> 00:15:19,934 you are nobody. 398 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:22,579 And it drove you. It drove me. Yeah. 399 00:15:22,579 --> 00:15:25,240 That's what I'm saying. It drove me, but 400 00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:28,100 the process is so painful. You know? Every 401 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:29,399 day, you're under such 402 00:15:30,179 --> 00:15:30,679 anxiety. 403 00:15:31,539 --> 00:15:33,940 You're so afraid of making mistakes so that 404 00:15:33,940 --> 00:15:36,384 you are afraid of getting into life. 405 00:15:37,245 --> 00:15:39,904 I am so afraid of making any mistake 406 00:15:40,045 --> 00:15:40,945 to an extent 407 00:15:41,404 --> 00:15:43,184 that I couldn't get into life. 408 00:15:44,605 --> 00:15:45,105 Wow. 409 00:15:45,644 --> 00:15:46,545 That narrative 410 00:15:47,004 --> 00:15:48,065 feels like it's 411 00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:50,070 working for the most part, and yet it's 412 00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:53,370 creating anxiety. Yes. You know, you're kind of 413 00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:54,490 putting it together. 414 00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:57,509 What happens? Does it fall apart all at 415 00:15:57,509 --> 00:16:00,470 once? Or does it do the cracks slowly 416 00:16:00,470 --> 00:16:01,529 begin to appear? 417 00:16:02,004 --> 00:16:04,485 Like, take us into your adult life. You're 418 00:16:04,485 --> 00:16:06,985 now how old, and when does it begin 419 00:16:07,605 --> 00:16:09,225 to come crashing down? 420 00:16:09,684 --> 00:16:11,144 I'm now 45. 421 00:16:11,444 --> 00:16:13,384 But when I look back, I actually 422 00:16:14,004 --> 00:16:15,144 had this constant 423 00:16:15,764 --> 00:16:16,264 anxiety 424 00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:19,590 in my life since I was little. 425 00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:22,370 I think the first crack out, the word 426 00:16:22,370 --> 00:16:23,110 you used, 427 00:16:23,649 --> 00:16:26,050 I was at my 30. I just gave 428 00:16:26,050 --> 00:16:28,529 birth to my first daughter. I returned back 429 00:16:28,529 --> 00:16:30,629 to work, which I was a consultant. 430 00:16:31,194 --> 00:16:33,674 The work is so intense, you know, long 431 00:16:33,674 --> 00:16:36,475 hours, and I couldn't handle it. That's my 432 00:16:36,475 --> 00:16:39,434 first breakdown, I guess. I couldn't fall asleep 433 00:16:39,434 --> 00:16:41,434 at night, and I woke up at 3AM 434 00:16:41,434 --> 00:16:44,000 every morning. And I had to pull myself 435 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,320 together to get to client's office to do 436 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,860 the work, and so painful. 437 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,740 And to the point that I actually 438 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,960 tell the company that I couldn't do the 439 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,500 consulting role anymore. 440 00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:57,664 So I transformed to an internal role, which 441 00:16:57,664 --> 00:17:00,225 is basically the end of your career in 442 00:17:00,225 --> 00:17:01,284 consulting's track. 443 00:17:01,664 --> 00:17:04,065 And so in having your daughter, it was 444 00:17:04,065 --> 00:17:05,044 just too much? 445 00:17:05,505 --> 00:17:07,044 And so then what happens? 446 00:17:07,744 --> 00:17:10,484 Then I try to find roles in corporate, 447 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:11,299 and 448 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,400 it goes well. I got what I want. 449 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,920 I gradually become a general manager of in 450 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:18,980 a Internet company. 451 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:21,840 But during the process, my husband and I 452 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,900 divorced. So that's another big hit. That's probably 453 00:17:25,294 --> 00:17:27,934 the real life crisis I've ever had in 454 00:17:27,934 --> 00:17:28,914 my adult life. 455 00:17:29,294 --> 00:17:30,835 The divorce? The divorce. 456 00:17:31,615 --> 00:17:34,414 What's another moment in time where the cracks 457 00:17:34,414 --> 00:17:35,474 begin to appear 458 00:17:36,174 --> 00:17:38,755 in this old narrative that if you're perfect, 459 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,660 everything will work out fine. Get the hundreds 460 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:44,539 all the time, and your life will be 461 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,220 well taken care of. 462 00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:47,740 I think it's 463 00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:50,839 when I knew that I I was going 464 00:17:50,839 --> 00:17:52,539 to divorce my husband, 465 00:17:53,815 --> 00:17:54,875 one of the biggest 466 00:17:56,535 --> 00:17:58,615 pain I've been through at the time is 467 00:17:58,615 --> 00:17:59,115 that 468 00:18:00,215 --> 00:18:02,215 I used to hold so much hope on 469 00:18:02,215 --> 00:18:02,875 my daughter. 470 00:18:03,335 --> 00:18:05,355 I spent a lot on her education. 471 00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:08,789 I thought I would give her the best 472 00:18:09,009 --> 00:18:09,750 of all. 473 00:18:10,529 --> 00:18:12,369 But then in the end, when she was 474 00:18:12,369 --> 00:18:14,230 only three and a half years old, 475 00:18:14,849 --> 00:18:17,190 I couldn't even give her a whole family. 476 00:18:19,065 --> 00:18:20,845 She lost at least part of 477 00:18:21,224 --> 00:18:22,444 her father's love 478 00:18:23,224 --> 00:18:25,164 and time spending with her. 479 00:18:26,184 --> 00:18:27,724 Because you had her? 480 00:18:28,105 --> 00:18:30,184 We were actually living in two different cities, 481 00:18:30,184 --> 00:18:32,125 so he can visit her, but 482 00:18:32,744 --> 00:18:34,044 it's not that frequent. 483 00:18:34,779 --> 00:18:35,839 That contrast 484 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:39,599 of you wanting her to succeed and achieve 485 00:18:40,059 --> 00:18:41,599 and yet having this realization 486 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:45,099 that you couldn't even give her A whole 487 00:18:45,099 --> 00:18:46,240 family. A whole family. 488 00:18:47,934 --> 00:18:49,234 So then what happens? 489 00:18:49,615 --> 00:18:52,335 I think that's the time where I deny 490 00:18:52,335 --> 00:18:52,835 my 491 00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:53,875 value 492 00:18:54,494 --> 00:18:55,234 as a woman. 493 00:18:56,174 --> 00:18:59,055 Totally, the divorce, the effect it has on 494 00:18:59,055 --> 00:19:01,234 me in many ways, but fundamentally, 495 00:19:01,695 --> 00:19:02,275 it destroyed 496 00:19:02,899 --> 00:19:03,960 my self value. 497 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,759 I thought everything I've done in the past 498 00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:07,799 is meaningless. 499 00:19:08,819 --> 00:19:10,119 You try so hard. 500 00:19:11,619 --> 00:19:13,779 You think you are successful, but at the 501 00:19:13,779 --> 00:19:14,599 end of the day, 502 00:19:15,595 --> 00:19:17,595 you know, as a woman, you couldn't even 503 00:19:17,595 --> 00:19:18,495 keep your marriage. 504 00:19:19,275 --> 00:19:21,515 It's a total failure. So I think what's 505 00:19:21,515 --> 00:19:22,174 the point? 506 00:19:22,955 --> 00:19:24,875 I used to have this high hope of 507 00:19:24,875 --> 00:19:26,095 my daughter and currently, 508 00:19:26,715 --> 00:19:29,115 like, I I have no expectation on you 509 00:19:29,115 --> 00:19:30,015 at all because 510 00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:32,019 if you are becoming like me, 511 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,200 would I want my daughter to go through 512 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,980 the pain I've been through? 513 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:38,579 No. 514 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:39,779 I don't. 515 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:44,000 And that's where, for the very first time, 516 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,775 I start look inward. You know, the all 517 00:19:46,775 --> 00:19:47,994 the external methods 518 00:19:48,615 --> 00:19:51,035 does not work anymore. I have to. 519 00:19:51,734 --> 00:19:54,555 That's where I start getting in touch with 520 00:19:54,615 --> 00:19:55,115 meditation, 521 00:19:55,654 --> 00:19:59,259 coaching, a lot of inner growth work. And 522 00:19:59,259 --> 00:20:02,539 sometimes we pull ourselves into the future. We're 523 00:20:02,539 --> 00:20:05,259 drawn to a better way of being, and 524 00:20:05,259 --> 00:20:06,640 sometimes we get pushed 525 00:20:07,819 --> 00:20:09,039 by Yeah. Circumstances. 526 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:13,740 Yeah. Actually, pain, tragedy in life, sometimes the 527 00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:14,240 best 528 00:20:14,595 --> 00:20:15,974 teacher or at least 529 00:20:16,595 --> 00:20:17,414 lead you 530 00:20:18,194 --> 00:20:19,734 into the right role. Right? 531 00:20:20,115 --> 00:20:20,615 Yeah. 532 00:20:21,234 --> 00:20:23,095 So you go inward. You 533 00:20:23,394 --> 00:20:27,154 stop turning outward and instead enter the inner 534 00:20:27,154 --> 00:20:30,329 landscape of your psyche. And I imagine it 535 00:20:30,329 --> 00:20:31,869 nets good results. 536 00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:34,349 What does that lead you to do? 537 00:20:34,809 --> 00:20:36,490 What are some of the outcomes as a 538 00:20:36,490 --> 00:20:38,190 result of that inner work? 539 00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:41,869 I probably never rebelled during my 540 00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:43,230 teenage age. 541 00:20:43,855 --> 00:20:46,355 Such a good girl, good daughter, good student, 542 00:20:46,414 --> 00:20:47,954 good employee, you know, everything. 543 00:20:48,494 --> 00:20:50,994 But then I divorced at 34. 544 00:20:51,375 --> 00:20:53,794 So during that years, I 545 00:20:54,174 --> 00:20:56,434 started a little bit work on therapy. 546 00:20:57,009 --> 00:20:59,410 One time, my therapist told me, you know 547 00:20:59,410 --> 00:21:01,890 what? If you never rebelled, you better rebel 548 00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:02,390 now. 549 00:21:03,169 --> 00:21:05,329 Otherwise, if you don't rebel all your life, 550 00:21:05,329 --> 00:21:07,029 you basically never lived. 551 00:21:07,410 --> 00:21:09,890 And I realized I have no boundary with 552 00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:11,829 my parents, especially my mom. 553 00:21:12,355 --> 00:21:14,674 I realized that I do not need to 554 00:21:14,674 --> 00:21:15,174 obey 555 00:21:15,794 --> 00:21:17,974 my mom or my boss all the time, 556 00:21:18,595 --> 00:21:20,434 you know, all the authority figures in my 557 00:21:20,434 --> 00:21:20,934 life. 558 00:21:21,554 --> 00:21:24,034 I could have my own souls, own wants, 559 00:21:24,034 --> 00:21:25,815 own needs, and I could do something, 560 00:21:26,590 --> 00:21:28,910 you know, maybe by all kinds of standards, 561 00:21:28,910 --> 00:21:30,670 it's not so good. But if I want, 562 00:21:30,670 --> 00:21:32,910 I just do it. I experiment with my 563 00:21:32,910 --> 00:21:34,369 life since then. 564 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:36,210 You started doing some living. 565 00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:38,369 Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 566 00:21:38,714 --> 00:21:41,914 And then what happens? And then, you know, 567 00:21:41,914 --> 00:21:42,414 magically, 568 00:21:43,115 --> 00:21:44,015 when you really 569 00:21:44,394 --> 00:21:45,375 leave your own 570 00:21:45,755 --> 00:21:46,734 more authentically 571 00:21:47,115 --> 00:21:49,535 things, my husband come back to me 572 00:21:50,315 --> 00:21:51,535 after four years. 573 00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:55,500 We get back together. We remarried. We have 574 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:56,559 our second daughter. 575 00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:58,640 Yeah. That's just one manifestation 576 00:21:59,099 --> 00:21:59,599 of 577 00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:02,380 what life can give you. But, also, in 578 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:04,700 my career, I mentioned I achieved the highest 579 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:07,755 position in my corporate career at that time. 580 00:22:08,134 --> 00:22:10,455 Wow. Lots of good stuff happening. You you 581 00:22:10,455 --> 00:22:13,015 get what you wanted professionally, achieving the highest 582 00:22:13,015 --> 00:22:15,174 position. Yes. You get back together with your 583 00:22:15,174 --> 00:22:17,654 husband. Yes. You You had another I had 584 00:22:17,654 --> 00:22:21,599 another daughter. Another daughter. You start living and 585 00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:24,180 experimenting and exploring and allowing 586 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,460 that little 587 00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:27,700 rebel at times to come out. 588 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,099 And then that was when you were 589 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,220 late thirties? 590 00:22:31,755 --> 00:22:32,494 30, 591 00:22:32,634 --> 00:22:33,535 40, 592 00:22:34,075 --> 00:22:36,335 and then this work is so intense. 593 00:22:37,195 --> 00:22:39,035 I think, basically, at that time, I still 594 00:22:39,035 --> 00:22:40,575 wants to get outside, 595 00:22:41,115 --> 00:22:42,255 external acknowledgment. 596 00:22:42,795 --> 00:22:44,894 I thought if I get to that position, 597 00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:47,250 if I get that title, if I get 598 00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:47,909 that salary, 599 00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:48,950 I'd be 600 00:22:49,490 --> 00:22:50,390 loved, accepted. 601 00:22:51,089 --> 00:22:54,529 That's still unconsciously operating. There's the do, have, 602 00:22:54,529 --> 00:22:55,029 be. 603 00:22:55,569 --> 00:22:56,069 Exactly. 604 00:22:57,009 --> 00:22:58,230 But then I increasingly 605 00:22:59,009 --> 00:22:59,909 felt tired. 606 00:23:00,289 --> 00:23:00,789 Basically, 607 00:23:01,275 --> 00:23:03,755 couldn't find the meaning, the fulfillment I really 608 00:23:03,755 --> 00:23:04,255 want 609 00:23:04,715 --> 00:23:05,535 in my work. 610 00:23:05,994 --> 00:23:08,255 And I'm a question myself why I'm sacrificing 611 00:23:08,955 --> 00:23:11,215 my time spent with my family doing this 612 00:23:11,275 --> 00:23:13,595 work just for a title, which probably couldn't 613 00:23:13,595 --> 00:23:14,255 get anymore. 614 00:23:14,849 --> 00:23:15,349 Why? 615 00:23:15,730 --> 00:23:18,369 Like, what for? And that's at the point 616 00:23:18,529 --> 00:23:20,929 I think I was 40. I retired from 617 00:23:20,929 --> 00:23:23,429 the corporate work, and I started exploring. 618 00:23:23,890 --> 00:23:26,390 And later on during the integration weekend, 619 00:23:27,075 --> 00:23:29,714 I look back my student workbook. I see 620 00:23:29,714 --> 00:23:31,894 the sentence pop up so strongly. 621 00:23:32,994 --> 00:23:34,855 The way out is through. 622 00:23:35,794 --> 00:23:37,414 Like, I totally get. 623 00:23:38,274 --> 00:23:39,494 Ever since after, 624 00:23:40,289 --> 00:23:40,789 I 625 00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:43,509 kept consciously remind myself, 626 00:23:45,250 --> 00:23:47,190 are you running away from 627 00:23:47,490 --> 00:23:48,230 the pain 628 00:23:49,650 --> 00:23:51,670 right now? Are you trying to 629 00:23:52,224 --> 00:23:54,884 running away from the pain by doing something? 630 00:23:55,264 --> 00:23:57,605 If, yes, I take a deep breath, 631 00:23:58,384 --> 00:24:01,044 ask myself what happened inside of me, 632 00:24:01,345 --> 00:24:02,644 what I'm feeling now, 633 00:24:03,345 --> 00:24:04,404 I stay there. 634 00:24:05,109 --> 00:24:08,089 And every time it turned out magically, 635 00:24:08,869 --> 00:24:11,029 there's no one's failing me. As long as 636 00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:13,269 I can remember to re remind myself. I'm 637 00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:15,269 not saying that I can always do that. 638 00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:16,490 It's very hard. 639 00:24:16,994 --> 00:24:18,115 You know, the mundane life's 640 00:24:19,394 --> 00:24:22,295 it's like gravity. You cannot escape it. Like, 641 00:24:22,515 --> 00:24:24,835 it's so hard to live moment by moment. 642 00:24:24,835 --> 00:24:26,595 Many of the times, you you you are 643 00:24:26,595 --> 00:24:28,295 not at present moment. 644 00:24:29,069 --> 00:24:31,309 You are living in your head worrying about 645 00:24:31,309 --> 00:24:33,329 the future, regretting about the past. 646 00:24:33,630 --> 00:24:35,649 It's very difficult to remind yourself. 647 00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:38,190 But as long as I can remember, take 648 00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:39,089 a deep breath. 649 00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:41,409 Look at inside. Things will 650 00:24:41,964 --> 00:24:44,524 change. Stay with the pain. Stay with the 651 00:24:44,524 --> 00:24:46,924 pain. Yeah. And it will goes away. It 652 00:24:46,924 --> 00:24:48,605 will go away. It will go. It's not 653 00:24:48,605 --> 00:24:49,984 as frightened as you unconsciously 654 00:24:51,085 --> 00:24:51,984 afraid of. 655 00:24:52,524 --> 00:24:53,504 What is emotion? 656 00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:54,750 It's 657 00:24:55,450 --> 00:24:55,950 e, 658 00:24:56,409 --> 00:24:57,950 motion, meaning energy, 659 00:24:58,329 --> 00:24:58,829 emotion. 660 00:24:59,450 --> 00:25:03,369 That is emotion. Oh. So So good. Yeah. 661 00:25:03,369 --> 00:25:05,929 So just I love that. Just energy. If 662 00:25:05,929 --> 00:25:08,190 you don't escape from it, it will slow 663 00:25:08,434 --> 00:25:10,355 through your body. It will go out. It 664 00:25:10,355 --> 00:25:12,835 will return to the light. So you just 665 00:25:12,835 --> 00:25:13,335 experience. 666 00:25:13,634 --> 00:25:15,815 That's the whole point of being a human. 667 00:25:16,355 --> 00:25:18,694 You experience all kinds of emotions 668 00:25:19,154 --> 00:25:20,694 flowing through your body. 669 00:25:21,234 --> 00:25:22,134 That's the thing. 670 00:25:22,669 --> 00:25:24,029 Is this part of the reason why you 671 00:25:24,029 --> 00:25:26,990 wanna be a Hoffman teacher? Definitely. I think 672 00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:28,130 in modern society. 673 00:25:28,829 --> 00:25:31,789 Like, the whole modern education system, I think 674 00:25:31,789 --> 00:25:34,589 whether China or Western world, it's just basically 675 00:25:34,589 --> 00:25:35,250 the same. 676 00:25:35,714 --> 00:25:37,255 We put all the emphasis 677 00:25:37,714 --> 00:25:40,434 on our brain. We train our intellect so 678 00:25:40,434 --> 00:25:40,934 well, 679 00:25:41,394 --> 00:25:44,294 but it dominates, and we never tell people 680 00:25:44,755 --> 00:25:46,134 we also have emotions 681 00:25:46,755 --> 00:25:47,734 and is not 682 00:25:48,339 --> 00:25:50,740 frightened and just stay with it. It'll flow 683 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:52,599 through. I did this experiment, 684 00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:54,119 later in my career. 685 00:25:54,659 --> 00:25:56,899 Sometimes after meeting, I will ask the people 686 00:25:56,899 --> 00:25:58,419 in the classroom. I said, what are you 687 00:25:58,419 --> 00:26:00,819 feeling right now? You know, nine out of 688 00:26:00,819 --> 00:26:03,799 10, they will say, well, I feel like 689 00:26:03,994 --> 00:26:06,715 just now that point is not right. Things 690 00:26:06,715 --> 00:26:08,955 like that. So they are talking about their 691 00:26:08,955 --> 00:26:09,455 sorts. 692 00:26:09,835 --> 00:26:12,674 Their intellect? Their intellect. They are talking about 693 00:26:12,875 --> 00:26:15,275 Oh, okay. The thoughts the thoughts. Yeah. The 694 00:26:15,275 --> 00:26:16,894 the analysis, the opinions. 695 00:26:17,195 --> 00:26:19,455 They do not know what is emotion. Like, 696 00:26:19,779 --> 00:26:20,599 it's sad. 697 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:22,980 What do you think the cost is of 698 00:26:22,980 --> 00:26:23,880 not knowing 699 00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:25,799 what we feel? 700 00:26:26,339 --> 00:26:27,480 You disconnect 701 00:26:28,099 --> 00:26:28,839 with yourself. 702 00:26:30,019 --> 00:26:31,720 You are trapped in this 703 00:26:32,724 --> 00:26:33,704 intellect dominating, 704 00:26:35,044 --> 00:26:36,265 external grabbing 705 00:26:36,644 --> 00:26:37,144 life. 706 00:26:38,404 --> 00:26:40,024 You thought you can do, 707 00:26:40,325 --> 00:26:41,704 have, and be happy. 708 00:26:42,164 --> 00:26:44,265 That's the trap. That's the downward. 709 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,920 Squirrel? Spiral. Spiral. Converse spiral, which you just 710 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:49,420 unconsciously 711 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:50,619 autopilot 712 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,680 live your everyday life, which later at time 713 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,779 you you you realize you didn't live. 714 00:26:57,125 --> 00:26:59,205 You do not live a life if you 715 00:26:59,205 --> 00:27:01,144 cannot feel the emotion. 716 00:27:01,924 --> 00:27:05,045 As you're describing, your hands are expressive. They're 717 00:27:05,045 --> 00:27:05,545 moving. 718 00:27:05,924 --> 00:27:08,424 Your eyes are closed. You're in the embodied 719 00:27:08,565 --> 00:27:09,065 experience 720 00:27:09,779 --> 00:27:11,000 of describing it. 721 00:27:11,619 --> 00:27:13,539 Mhmm. So do you feel like there's a 722 00:27:13,539 --> 00:27:15,859 market for Hoffman in China? How do you 723 00:27:15,859 --> 00:27:17,080 think it's gonna go? 724 00:27:17,460 --> 00:27:19,000 I think the needs 725 00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:20,200 are huge. 726 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:21,720 People think 727 00:27:22,134 --> 00:27:25,174 people are different, like, from different country, different 728 00:27:25,174 --> 00:27:27,434 skin color, different language, different culture. 729 00:27:27,815 --> 00:27:28,554 But, actually, 730 00:27:29,095 --> 00:27:31,115 in the bottom of our heart, 731 00:27:31,654 --> 00:27:32,714 we are so 732 00:27:33,015 --> 00:27:35,414 similar. And the the core thing that we 733 00:27:35,414 --> 00:27:37,595 are similar because we feel 734 00:27:38,349 --> 00:27:40,450 the same no matter what happened outside. 735 00:27:40,829 --> 00:27:43,730 When we feel pain, that pain, that anger, 736 00:27:44,109 --> 00:27:44,929 that shame, 737 00:27:45,309 --> 00:27:47,869 everybody feel it the same way. In that 738 00:27:47,869 --> 00:27:48,369 sense, 739 00:27:49,069 --> 00:27:51,549 we understand each other, and we are saying 740 00:27:51,549 --> 00:27:52,690 we share the same 741 00:27:53,384 --> 00:27:53,884 humanity. 742 00:27:54,744 --> 00:27:56,744 So what you've seen as a health plan 743 00:27:56,744 --> 00:28:00,445 teacher in US, six months waiting list. Right? 744 00:28:01,224 --> 00:28:03,705 If the need is so huge in US, 745 00:28:03,705 --> 00:28:05,325 it will be the same in China. 746 00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:08,450 And I imagine it's exciting. I see the 747 00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:10,929 energy in the 10 of you as the 748 00:28:10,929 --> 00:28:11,429 inaugural 749 00:28:12,049 --> 00:28:12,549 team 750 00:28:13,089 --> 00:28:15,829 of Hoffman teachers bringing it to this country. 751 00:28:16,130 --> 00:28:17,970 We'll put a link, by the way, to 752 00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:20,289 some of what we talked about in the 753 00:28:20,289 --> 00:28:22,125 show notes. So if you wanna check out 754 00:28:22,125 --> 00:28:24,545 about BOW and Evolve 755 00:28:25,485 --> 00:28:28,045 and what they're doing in the initial stages 756 00:28:28,045 --> 00:28:29,904 here, bringing Kauffman to China. 757 00:28:30,365 --> 00:28:32,465 It's such a great group of 758 00:28:32,924 --> 00:28:34,225 10 of you. Different, 759 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,299 but also 760 00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:38,379 deeply committed to the work. 761 00:28:38,679 --> 00:28:40,859 Yeah. I think every one of us, 762 00:28:41,879 --> 00:28:44,619 since we experience a process of self, 763 00:28:45,159 --> 00:28:47,899 we experience a healing inside ourselves. 764 00:28:48,575 --> 00:28:51,134 We are so committed to bring it to 765 00:28:51,134 --> 00:28:52,674 China to serve 766 00:28:53,134 --> 00:28:54,835 whoever really wants to change 767 00:28:55,615 --> 00:28:59,134 to help their transformation happen. Well, thank you 768 00:28:59,134 --> 00:29:00,914 for doing that. Thank you for 769 00:29:01,250 --> 00:29:02,150 for spearheading 770 00:29:02,529 --> 00:29:05,910 this journey, being the first of the Chinese 771 00:29:06,289 --> 00:29:08,690 to come over, take it, and you're gonna 772 00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:10,549 be the chief executive officer. 773 00:29:11,009 --> 00:29:13,009 Yes. And Bo will be the chairman. Bo 774 00:29:13,009 --> 00:29:14,869 will be the chair of the board. Yeah. 775 00:29:15,224 --> 00:29:16,285 That's really exciting. 776 00:29:16,825 --> 00:29:19,484 And thanks for hosting me here in China. 777 00:29:19,545 --> 00:29:20,845 It is so hot. 778 00:29:22,105 --> 00:29:24,105 It is so hot, but I've had some 779 00:29:24,105 --> 00:29:25,164 amazing food. 780 00:29:25,625 --> 00:29:27,804 Dinner two nights ago was chicken feet. 781 00:29:29,579 --> 00:29:32,240 But I'm learning a lot my Chinese, practicing 782 00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:33,119 some words. 783 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:35,819 Zhu is a genius in learning foreign kind 784 00:29:35,819 --> 00:29:36,480 of language. 785 00:29:36,859 --> 00:29:37,359 Language, 786 00:29:37,980 --> 00:29:39,679 it's so there are words 787 00:29:40,220 --> 00:29:42,380 that you say that we just do not 788 00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:44,115 have in our language. So we have to 789 00:29:44,434 --> 00:29:48,035 shape our mouths differently Yes. Than we ever 790 00:29:48,035 --> 00:29:50,275 have before Yes. To create the word that 791 00:29:50,275 --> 00:29:52,434 that you use. Yes. But, I mean, it's 792 00:29:52,434 --> 00:29:52,934 amazing 793 00:29:53,394 --> 00:29:55,335 that you're learning in English. 794 00:29:56,035 --> 00:29:57,335 Yeah. We have to. Right? 795 00:29:57,649 --> 00:29:59,809 Because now the Hoffman teacher in the whole 796 00:29:59,809 --> 00:30:02,529 world speak Chinese, so we have to learn 797 00:30:02,529 --> 00:30:05,569 English. And then translating it to Chinese? Yes. 798 00:30:05,569 --> 00:30:07,490 We have a small team working on the 799 00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:10,389 localization right now. The localization where you'll modify 800 00:30:10,450 --> 00:30:11,109 and adjust 801 00:30:11,569 --> 00:30:13,894 and bring some of it to make it 802 00:30:13,894 --> 00:30:14,394 relevant 803 00:30:14,855 --> 00:30:18,375 Yes. Exactly. To Chinese. Chinese culture. Yeah. Raul 804 00:30:18,375 --> 00:30:18,875 Raul. 805 00:30:19,255 --> 00:30:20,075 Thank you. 806 00:30:20,375 --> 00:30:22,234 Thank you, Zhu. I feel so privileged. 807 00:30:23,095 --> 00:30:25,335 It's been great to have this conversation with 808 00:30:25,335 --> 00:30:26,954 you on the other side of the world. 809 00:30:27,309 --> 00:30:29,570 It's great to have you here in China 810 00:30:29,710 --> 00:30:32,450 to host you. I love it. Thanks, everybody. 811 00:30:41,194 --> 00:30:43,194 Thank you for listening to our podcast. My 812 00:30:43,194 --> 00:30:45,515 name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and 813 00:30:45,515 --> 00:30:47,694 president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. 814 00:30:48,075 --> 00:30:49,454 And I'm Razzi Ingrassi, 815 00:30:50,075 --> 00:30:53,115 Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute 816 00:30:53,115 --> 00:30:53,615 Foundation. 817 00:30:54,309 --> 00:30:57,130 Our mission is to provide people greater access 818 00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:59,590 to the wisdom and power of love. In 819 00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:02,090 themselves, in each other and in the world. 820 00:31:02,390 --> 00:31:06,090 To find out more, please go to hoffmaninstitute.org.