1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:02,819 There's this imprint. 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:04,099 There's this 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:04,900 somatic 4 00:00:05,759 --> 00:00:06,259 felt 5 00:00:06,719 --> 00:00:07,219 body 6 00:00:07,519 --> 00:00:08,019 sense 7 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:09,380 imprint 8 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:11,619 of love in me 9 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,259 that it will never go away. 10 00:00:14,855 --> 00:00:17,355 And, you know, the patterns come and 11 00:00:17,975 --> 00:00:20,454 the world, you know, just everything can it 12 00:00:20,454 --> 00:00:22,154 happens all around me. 13 00:00:22,454 --> 00:00:25,675 And I forget myself, but I have access 14 00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:27,989 to come back to this 15 00:00:28,469 --> 00:00:28,969 deep 16 00:00:29,269 --> 00:00:29,769 imprint 17 00:00:30,390 --> 00:00:31,129 of self 18 00:00:33,909 --> 00:00:36,329 love. Welcome everybody. My name is Drew Horning, 19 00:00:36,549 --> 00:00:40,009 and this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius. 20 00:00:40,815 --> 00:00:42,755 It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute 21 00:00:42,975 --> 00:00:45,715 and its stories and anecdotes 22 00:00:46,414 --> 00:00:47,795 and people we interview 23 00:00:48,335 --> 00:00:50,895 about their life post process and how it 24 00:00:50,895 --> 00:00:53,635 lives in the world radiating love. 25 00:00:53,979 --> 00:00:56,479 Please be aware that this episode references 26 00:00:57,340 --> 00:00:57,840 reproductive 27 00:00:58,539 --> 00:00:59,039 grief. 28 00:00:59,579 --> 00:01:00,799 Please use your discretion. 29 00:01:06,540 --> 00:01:08,000 Shedin or AZ. 30 00:01:08,655 --> 00:01:10,674 Nice to have you on the Hoffman podcast. 31 00:01:11,375 --> 00:01:13,295 Thank you for having me, Drew. I'm super 32 00:01:13,295 --> 00:01:15,614 excited to be here. I was just asking 33 00:01:15,614 --> 00:01:17,614 how to pronounce your name, and you said 34 00:01:17,614 --> 00:01:18,114 Oresi 35 00:01:18,495 --> 00:01:19,715 like crazy. 36 00:01:20,255 --> 00:01:21,980 That's right. So when I was a kid 37 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,599 in elementary school, I went to elementary school 38 00:01:24,599 --> 00:01:26,280 here in The US, and the kids would 39 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,819 call me Crazy Areze. 40 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:32,060 The harshness 41 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,540 of elementary school kids. 42 00:01:35,525 --> 00:01:36,825 That's right. Yeah. 43 00:01:37,284 --> 00:01:38,825 Tell us a little bit about 44 00:01:39,204 --> 00:01:41,204 who you are and why you took the 45 00:01:41,204 --> 00:01:41,704 process. 46 00:01:42,245 --> 00:01:43,465 Absolutely. So, 47 00:01:44,165 --> 00:01:44,665 Shirin 48 00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:47,625 and Namaki is a addition that I'll introduce 49 00:01:47,685 --> 00:01:49,284 post process, and we can talk a little 50 00:01:49,284 --> 00:01:50,344 bit about that. 51 00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:54,329 I was, born in Iran, and we immigrated. 52 00:01:54,790 --> 00:01:56,710 I was seven years old when we immigrated 53 00:01:56,710 --> 00:01:59,750 to The US, and I spent elementary school 54 00:01:59,750 --> 00:02:01,750 in The US, went back to Iran for 55 00:02:01,750 --> 00:02:03,590 middle and high school, and then came back 56 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:04,090 again 57 00:02:04,484 --> 00:02:06,805 to The US for college and have been 58 00:02:06,805 --> 00:02:08,485 here ever since. So a lot of back 59 00:02:08,485 --> 00:02:09,145 and forth 60 00:02:09,604 --> 00:02:12,185 kinda traversing to very, very different countries. 61 00:02:12,885 --> 00:02:15,625 I also have traversed very different careers. 62 00:02:16,004 --> 00:02:17,939 So I, initially started off 63 00:02:18,659 --> 00:02:20,099 off as an electrical engineer because that's what 64 00:02:20,099 --> 00:02:21,159 a good girl does. 65 00:02:22,260 --> 00:02:24,419 And then I went on to start my 66 00:02:24,419 --> 00:02:26,740 own agency, and, I've been doing that for 67 00:02:26,740 --> 00:02:28,840 about twenty years. We do 68 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:30,360 research and marketing 69 00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:31,240 and, 70 00:02:31,635 --> 00:02:33,715 at a bit of a transition point post 71 00:02:33,715 --> 00:02:35,175 Hoffman, you know, really 72 00:02:35,474 --> 00:02:37,974 discovering what's next for me career wise. 73 00:02:38,435 --> 00:02:41,094 What's it like to be in that space 74 00:02:41,235 --> 00:02:41,735 of 75 00:02:42,034 --> 00:02:45,314 transitioning from old to new and yet not 76 00:02:45,314 --> 00:02:47,014 even aware of what the new 77 00:02:48,250 --> 00:02:49,930 is. I can tell you that there's the 78 00:02:49,930 --> 00:02:50,830 distinct difference 79 00:02:51,610 --> 00:02:53,789 before Hoffman versus post Hoffman. 80 00:02:54,489 --> 00:02:56,569 So I'll tell you that before I took 81 00:02:56,569 --> 00:02:57,069 Hoffman, 82 00:02:57,930 --> 00:03:00,349 as I was kinda early on into navigating 83 00:03:00,409 --> 00:03:02,965 this transition phase, there was so much 84 00:03:03,425 --> 00:03:03,925 of 85 00:03:04,385 --> 00:03:05,605 my old patterning 86 00:03:06,224 --> 00:03:06,724 around 87 00:03:07,665 --> 00:03:10,245 whatever is next, it better be successful. 88 00:03:11,264 --> 00:03:13,764 And I better know exactly what I'm doing. 89 00:03:14,385 --> 00:03:16,645 And as a result, this kinda 90 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,860 sphere of imagining was so tight because imagine 91 00:03:21,239 --> 00:03:23,560 if your vision for what's next has to 92 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,180 be done right and perfectly, you can't possibly 93 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:27,900 dream. 94 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,699 You can't possibly take risk. 95 00:03:31,305 --> 00:03:34,685 And how I am being with this transition 96 00:03:34,824 --> 00:03:36,444 post Hoffman is 97 00:03:37,705 --> 00:03:39,165 just in a state of 98 00:03:40,025 --> 00:03:40,525 wonder, 99 00:03:41,625 --> 00:03:42,764 in a state of 100 00:03:43,639 --> 00:03:44,139 experiment. 101 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:47,259 Actually, I find a lot of 102 00:03:47,719 --> 00:03:49,800 talking to myself as if I'm a little 103 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:50,300 kid. 104 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,080 I scare myself. Like, for example, we're, you 105 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,145 know, hopping on this conversation today, and I 106 00:03:56,145 --> 00:03:57,905 have a thought that, like, maybe this is 107 00:03:57,905 --> 00:04:00,145 part of my career path next to, you 108 00:04:00,145 --> 00:04:02,544 know, get into coaching and helping bring other 109 00:04:02,544 --> 00:04:03,365 people home. 110 00:04:03,905 --> 00:04:06,305 And I noticed all this energy was building 111 00:04:06,305 --> 00:04:08,224 up, and I was like, oh, I'm am 112 00:04:08,224 --> 00:04:10,145 I do I have all the right stories, 113 00:04:10,145 --> 00:04:11,764 and where is this gonna go? 114 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,599 And I just sat myself down on the 115 00:04:14,599 --> 00:04:15,980 couch right before, 116 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,779 and I was like, okay, little one. 117 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,180 Let's just talk to you. 118 00:04:21,879 --> 00:04:23,100 You're gonna be okay. 119 00:04:24,444 --> 00:04:26,845 This podcast is gonna go how it's gonna 120 00:04:26,845 --> 00:04:28,685 go. And as long as you come back 121 00:04:28,685 --> 00:04:29,345 to me, 122 00:04:30,205 --> 00:04:32,524 we're all gonna be okay. And sometimes I 123 00:04:32,524 --> 00:04:34,464 go into the world and do that, and 124 00:04:34,605 --> 00:04:36,764 it feels awkward and weird, and I don't 125 00:04:36,764 --> 00:04:38,444 feel okay. And then I just sit with 126 00:04:38,444 --> 00:04:41,557 with myself on the couch and we're like, 127 00:04:41,557 --> 00:04:45,408 oh, how did that feel? Ouch. That hurt 128 00:04:45,408 --> 00:04:49,260 or something different. And I'm just being with 129 00:04:49,260 --> 00:04:53,112 myself. And this idea, as long as you 130 00:04:53,112 --> 00:04:55,055 come back to me, 131 00:04:55,835 --> 00:04:58,314 and the me is this spiritual self that 132 00:04:58,314 --> 00:05:00,975 is deeply loving and kind and 133 00:05:01,595 --> 00:05:02,095 unconditional 134 00:05:02,634 --> 00:05:04,335 in its support of you. 135 00:05:04,715 --> 00:05:05,455 That's right. 136 00:05:05,915 --> 00:05:06,895 Yeah. Absolutely. 137 00:05:07,675 --> 00:05:09,375 I think one of the things that's 138 00:05:10,129 --> 00:05:12,789 really beautiful about the Hoffman experience 139 00:05:13,409 --> 00:05:15,409 and I'm sort of a I don't know. 140 00:05:15,409 --> 00:05:17,089 I love this sort of stuff, so I've 141 00:05:17,089 --> 00:05:18,930 been doing variations of this for, like, a 142 00:05:18,930 --> 00:05:20,930 good ten years. Yeah. I've done a lot 143 00:05:20,930 --> 00:05:22,529 of you can say I'm a little bit 144 00:05:22,529 --> 00:05:25,125 addicted to this stuff. But I think what 145 00:05:25,125 --> 00:05:26,185 I really love 146 00:05:26,964 --> 00:05:28,264 about Hoffman 147 00:05:28,644 --> 00:05:30,024 specifically was that 148 00:05:30,324 --> 00:05:31,944 there's this imprint. 149 00:05:32,644 --> 00:05:34,185 There's this somatic 150 00:05:35,925 --> 00:05:36,425 felt 151 00:05:37,125 --> 00:05:38,345 body sense 152 00:05:39,529 --> 00:05:40,029 imprint 153 00:05:42,089 --> 00:05:43,389 of love in me 154 00:05:44,889 --> 00:05:46,509 that it will never go away. 155 00:05:47,129 --> 00:05:49,709 And, you know, the patterns come and 156 00:05:50,250 --> 00:05:52,649 the world, you know, just everything can it 157 00:05:52,649 --> 00:05:56,305 happens all around me, and I forget myself. 158 00:05:56,444 --> 00:05:59,425 But I have access to come back to 159 00:06:00,204 --> 00:06:00,704 this 160 00:06:01,084 --> 00:06:01,584 deep 161 00:06:02,204 --> 00:06:02,704 imprint 162 00:06:03,644 --> 00:06:04,785 of self love. 163 00:06:05,324 --> 00:06:08,430 Shouldn't when you talk, you talked about the 164 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:11,069 somatic imprint, and you can come back to 165 00:06:11,069 --> 00:06:13,389 that. You won't forget it because it's a 166 00:06:13,389 --> 00:06:14,370 somatic imprint. 167 00:06:14,830 --> 00:06:16,129 And when you did that, 168 00:06:16,430 --> 00:06:18,529 your voice cracked, and there's emotion. 169 00:06:19,150 --> 00:06:22,290 Are those two connected, the somatic imprint 170 00:06:23,295 --> 00:06:26,415 and the emotion that emerges as you talk 171 00:06:26,415 --> 00:06:27,074 about it? 172 00:06:27,535 --> 00:06:28,035 Yes. 173 00:06:29,214 --> 00:06:30,754 It goes here we go again. 174 00:06:32,654 --> 00:06:33,714 How it's connected, 175 00:06:36,014 --> 00:06:37,955 I come back into love 176 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,019 and all the masks 177 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:42,579 that I've learned to wear 178 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:44,899 as an Enneagram three, 179 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,720 they go away. And so when the masks 180 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,740 go away, I'm I'm in the presence 181 00:06:51,625 --> 00:06:53,084 of love, and there's this 182 00:06:54,345 --> 00:06:54,845 vulnerability. 183 00:06:56,584 --> 00:06:57,645 It's almost like 184 00:06:58,425 --> 00:07:00,125 being naked in a way. 185 00:07:01,464 --> 00:07:03,404 Right? You're you're that vulnerable. 186 00:07:05,370 --> 00:07:06,670 And, yeah, I just 187 00:07:07,050 --> 00:07:08,730 notice when I get in touch with it, 188 00:07:08,730 --> 00:07:09,550 I I 189 00:07:10,009 --> 00:07:12,089 I either start crying or I crack up 190 00:07:12,089 --> 00:07:12,589 or 191 00:07:13,449 --> 00:07:15,209 just I don't know. I don't know why 192 00:07:15,209 --> 00:07:16,670 it happens, but it happens. 193 00:07:18,704 --> 00:07:21,365 You have such good access to your emotional 194 00:07:21,584 --> 00:07:22,084 landscape. 195 00:07:23,345 --> 00:07:24,964 Tell us a little bit about 196 00:07:25,425 --> 00:07:27,904 why you signed up for the process and 197 00:07:27,904 --> 00:07:28,644 your journey 198 00:07:29,345 --> 00:07:31,044 towards Hoffman and 199 00:07:31,425 --> 00:07:32,245 in Hoffman. 200 00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:35,379 Yeah. So I'll tell you first why I 201 00:07:35,379 --> 00:07:36,199 didn't sign 202 00:07:36,579 --> 00:07:38,599 up. Because it took a good five years 203 00:07:38,899 --> 00:07:40,899 that I was like, I knew about so 204 00:07:40,899 --> 00:07:43,139 I I'm part of this group, Conscious Leadership 205 00:07:43,139 --> 00:07:46,019 Group. You actually interviewed Diana Chapman, who's been 206 00:07:46,019 --> 00:07:48,199 my coach for the past six years. 207 00:07:48,795 --> 00:07:50,235 And it, you know, was part of this 208 00:07:50,235 --> 00:07:52,795 group with lots of people doing Hoffman. Like, 209 00:07:52,795 --> 00:07:54,314 I think I was maybe one of the 210 00:07:54,314 --> 00:07:55,134 last holdouts 211 00:07:55,595 --> 00:07:56,735 in in our group. 212 00:07:57,274 --> 00:07:57,774 And 213 00:07:58,714 --> 00:08:00,814 what was really interesting is that I resisted 214 00:08:00,875 --> 00:08:02,730 it at one part because I was like, 215 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:04,730 well, I think Hoffman's for people that have, 216 00:08:04,730 --> 00:08:06,910 like, a lot of trauma around their parents, 217 00:08:07,129 --> 00:08:09,310 and I don't think I really have trauma. 218 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:11,449 It turns out I had to go to 219 00:08:11,449 --> 00:08:13,610 Hoffman to realize that I actually have a 220 00:08:13,610 --> 00:08:14,110 minimizing 221 00:08:14,569 --> 00:08:15,069 pattern 222 00:08:15,764 --> 00:08:18,665 where I minimize any, like, trauma or pain. 223 00:08:19,044 --> 00:08:21,365 And then the other thing that was stopping 224 00:08:21,365 --> 00:08:23,125 me from going was I was like, okay. 225 00:08:23,125 --> 00:08:24,884 I see people going to Hoffman. They come 226 00:08:24,884 --> 00:08:27,704 back. They're, like, glowing, and there's it's amazing. 227 00:08:28,084 --> 00:08:30,790 And then eventually, over time, I see their 228 00:08:30,790 --> 00:08:33,429 patterns coming back. And, like, I'm like, what's 229 00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:34,089 the point 230 00:08:34,470 --> 00:08:37,029 of going if you can't be perfect? So 231 00:08:37,029 --> 00:08:37,850 my perfectionist 232 00:08:38,789 --> 00:08:41,589 pattern coming into play. And it really took, 233 00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:43,350 you know, going to Hoffman to see these 234 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:44,490 patterns at play. 235 00:08:44,834 --> 00:08:46,534 But what ended up 236 00:08:46,995 --> 00:08:49,154 being the reason that I went, it wasn't 237 00:08:49,154 --> 00:08:51,654 an epiphany. It wasn't a single moment. 238 00:08:52,355 --> 00:08:54,454 It was actually a gradual build up. 239 00:08:54,914 --> 00:08:55,826 For those five years that I was resisting 240 00:08:55,826 --> 00:08:56,454 going to Hoffman, in parallel, I was 241 00:08:57,009 --> 00:08:58,309 resisting going to Hoffman, 242 00:08:59,009 --> 00:08:59,669 in parallel, 243 00:09:00,129 --> 00:09:02,389 I was, doing IVF treatments, 244 00:09:03,329 --> 00:09:06,610 because my husband and I were planning on 245 00:09:06,610 --> 00:09:08,309 having children. And 246 00:09:09,084 --> 00:09:09,904 for five 247 00:09:10,205 --> 00:09:12,304 years, seven rounds of IVF, 248 00:09:13,164 --> 00:09:15,184 hundreds of needles in my body, 249 00:09:16,205 --> 00:09:17,105 four miscarriages, 250 00:09:17,565 --> 00:09:19,105 three girls, one boy. 251 00:09:19,804 --> 00:09:21,565 I was so certain that we can make 252 00:09:21,565 --> 00:09:23,870 this work, and I was seeing physicians all 253 00:09:23,870 --> 00:09:24,769 over the country. 254 00:09:25,470 --> 00:09:25,970 And 255 00:09:26,350 --> 00:09:28,750 nobody was certain, like, what what in the 256 00:09:28,750 --> 00:09:30,589 world is going on. And I was so 257 00:09:30,589 --> 00:09:32,029 certain that we can make this work that 258 00:09:32,029 --> 00:09:34,370 I started reducing my time at my agency 259 00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:37,330 in preparation for having a family. 260 00:09:38,164 --> 00:09:40,264 After five years in our last miscarriage, 261 00:09:40,964 --> 00:09:41,945 I found myself 262 00:09:42,404 --> 00:09:45,445 with a complete vision lost of having a 263 00:09:45,445 --> 00:09:45,945 family 264 00:09:46,804 --> 00:09:47,304 and, 265 00:09:47,764 --> 00:09:49,225 a lot of time on my hand 266 00:09:50,084 --> 00:09:52,184 because I'd reduced my time at the agency. 267 00:09:52,839 --> 00:09:53,659 And I kept 268 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:54,700 struggling 269 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,460 to vision what's next because this perfectionist 270 00:09:58,839 --> 00:09:59,339 pattern 271 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,100 was driving me that I must be successful 272 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,220 in what's next, 273 00:10:04,839 --> 00:10:06,940 and I thought Hoffman could help. 274 00:10:07,414 --> 00:10:07,914 So 275 00:10:08,294 --> 00:10:11,894 that journey of all those needles, all those 276 00:10:11,894 --> 00:10:12,394 years, 277 00:10:13,495 --> 00:10:14,634 and the striving, 278 00:10:15,334 --> 00:10:17,975 if only I try harder or find the 279 00:10:17,975 --> 00:10:18,954 right doctor 280 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,639 shit in? What what was that like to 281 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:23,700 go through that? 282 00:10:24,079 --> 00:10:25,059 You know, in hindsight, 283 00:10:25,919 --> 00:10:26,740 I can see 284 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,579 how little compassion 285 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:30,500 I had for myself 286 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,339 because there was this almost bully 287 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:35,620 driving me 288 00:10:36,634 --> 00:10:37,134 harder, 289 00:10:37,675 --> 00:10:38,575 do it more, 290 00:10:38,955 --> 00:10:39,535 you know, 291 00:10:40,154 --> 00:10:40,654 and 292 00:10:41,754 --> 00:10:43,595 it was as if it was running my 293 00:10:43,595 --> 00:10:45,134 body, running my existence 294 00:10:46,394 --> 00:10:48,014 with this notion of 295 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:50,860 you got this. You you this is no 296 00:10:50,860 --> 00:10:53,100 big deal. There's no trauma. There's no pain. 297 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:55,899 Like, this my minimizing pattern was also at 298 00:10:55,899 --> 00:10:56,639 play here 299 00:10:57,019 --> 00:10:59,259 of you're gonna get to the other side, 300 00:10:59,259 --> 00:11:02,379 and it's only, like, one more implantation. It's 301 00:11:02,379 --> 00:11:03,680 just around the corner. 302 00:11:04,565 --> 00:11:06,804 I think in hindsight, what I realized is 303 00:11:06,804 --> 00:11:07,304 that 304 00:11:08,085 --> 00:11:11,125 not only this IVF journey, but a lot 305 00:11:11,125 --> 00:11:12,504 of my path 306 00:11:13,205 --> 00:11:14,345 and career wise 307 00:11:14,725 --> 00:11:16,184 has been the same thing. 308 00:11:16,725 --> 00:11:18,909 You know? Like, I wanna grow the agent. 309 00:11:18,909 --> 00:11:20,669 I wanna I wanna make it bigger. I 310 00:11:20,669 --> 00:11:22,769 mean, it's it's this constant chasing 311 00:11:23,549 --> 00:11:24,289 of a vision 312 00:11:24,669 --> 00:11:25,889 somewhere out there 313 00:11:27,309 --> 00:11:29,730 and having it never be good enough. 314 00:11:30,754 --> 00:11:33,174 It wasn't until, like, early, I think within 315 00:11:33,235 --> 00:11:35,095 our first day or two of Hoffman 316 00:11:35,715 --> 00:11:37,414 that they give you this list 317 00:11:37,794 --> 00:11:39,174 of core shame messages. 318 00:11:41,394 --> 00:11:44,535 So not good enough, and I'm like, oh, 319 00:11:44,595 --> 00:11:45,095 shit. 320 00:11:46,690 --> 00:11:48,230 Oh my god. 321 00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:51,429 This has been running me. 322 00:11:52,049 --> 00:11:54,290 You know, my whole life has been this 323 00:11:54,290 --> 00:11:54,790 chase 324 00:11:55,730 --> 00:11:57,809 of if this happens, like, I will be 325 00:11:57,809 --> 00:11:58,870 finally good enough. 326 00:11:59,235 --> 00:12:02,455 You remember the work we did around shame 327 00:12:02,835 --> 00:12:03,735 at your process. 328 00:12:04,674 --> 00:12:07,575 Shame is not an easy feeling to 329 00:12:08,115 --> 00:12:11,335 welcome in. There's so much shame around shame. 330 00:12:12,049 --> 00:12:15,889 We've interviewed some experts on shame over the 331 00:12:15,889 --> 00:12:18,069 previous seasons here on the podcast. 332 00:12:18,529 --> 00:12:19,669 But for you, 333 00:12:20,209 --> 00:12:21,909 what was it like to 334 00:12:22,689 --> 00:12:25,649 make the connection between so much of what 335 00:12:25,649 --> 00:12:27,269 has been driving you 336 00:12:28,184 --> 00:12:30,764 and this notion that it is shame 337 00:12:31,144 --> 00:12:33,465 and it is, in particular, you are not 338 00:12:33,465 --> 00:12:34,125 good enough? 339 00:12:35,144 --> 00:12:35,644 Heartbreaking? 340 00:12:36,904 --> 00:12:38,285 Like, how mean? 341 00:12:38,985 --> 00:12:40,044 Like, wow. 342 00:12:40,424 --> 00:12:40,924 Like, 343 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,059 I could be so mean to 344 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,059 this, like, beautiful, 345 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,340 beautiful being, 346 00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:50,100 you know, 347 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,980 to tell her this message, 348 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:54,980 to push her 349 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,580 and push 350 00:12:57,245 --> 00:12:59,745 so many needles in her body and 351 00:13:00,684 --> 00:13:02,225 just this constant, 352 00:13:03,804 --> 00:13:05,184 yeah, bullying of her. 353 00:13:05,565 --> 00:13:07,964 Shouldn't, whereas you talk, I'm just aware of 354 00:13:07,964 --> 00:13:09,745 this contrast between 355 00:13:10,605 --> 00:13:11,105 innocence 356 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:13,220 and bullying, 357 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:16,179 the way in which you talk about bullying 358 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,259 yourself through the shame messages 359 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,580 and in contrast, this beautiful, innocent little being. 360 00:13:23,759 --> 00:13:25,460 I imagine at your process, 361 00:13:26,355 --> 00:13:28,695 you really connected with that innocent 362 00:13:29,235 --> 00:13:30,054 little girl. 363 00:13:30,514 --> 00:13:31,975 Yeah. I'll tell you. 364 00:13:32,355 --> 00:13:33,414 The first moment 365 00:13:33,875 --> 00:13:34,855 that I connected 366 00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:37,715 was, you know, in Hoffman, you get these 367 00:13:37,715 --> 00:13:40,054 little binders for your work for the week. 368 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:42,190 And literally on the binder, 369 00:13:43,129 --> 00:13:44,509 it's spelled Namaki, 370 00:13:45,289 --> 00:13:48,329 which is my childhood nickname. And I swear 371 00:13:48,329 --> 00:13:50,649 to god, I saw the word Namaki, and 372 00:13:50,649 --> 00:13:52,589 something just lit up 373 00:13:52,970 --> 00:13:53,709 in me. 374 00:13:54,764 --> 00:13:55,264 Like, 375 00:13:55,725 --> 00:13:57,184 oh, I remember 376 00:13:57,565 --> 00:13:58,065 her. 377 00:13:59,404 --> 00:14:01,345 And this essence of 378 00:14:01,964 --> 00:14:02,464 just 379 00:14:03,004 --> 00:14:04,225 me. Me. 380 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:07,820 And I'll tell you a fun story. So 381 00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:09,519 Shirin in in Farsi 382 00:14:09,899 --> 00:14:10,879 means sweet. 383 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:14,080 And Namaki, which is my childhood nickname, 384 00:14:14,539 --> 00:14:17,500 means sort of salty, like, but spicy, like, 385 00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:19,340 in in a fun loving way. Like, somebody 386 00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:22,695 that's, like, spicy. And something went off where 387 00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:25,254 I'm like, oh my god. There's this kind 388 00:14:25,254 --> 00:14:26,634 of parallel universe 389 00:14:27,014 --> 00:14:27,514 of 390 00:14:28,294 --> 00:14:28,794 this 391 00:14:29,495 --> 00:14:29,995 innocent 392 00:14:30,455 --> 00:14:31,514 spicy child, 393 00:14:32,054 --> 00:14:32,554 Namaki, 394 00:14:33,654 --> 00:14:35,674 that's been with me all along. 395 00:14:36,839 --> 00:14:37,339 But 396 00:14:37,959 --> 00:14:40,679 Shereen, the sweet layer, has come way on 397 00:14:40,679 --> 00:14:41,980 top with the bully 398 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,100 and has been driving sort of the operating 399 00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:45,659 system. 400 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,754 It was just so delightful. Like, people, like, 401 00:14:49,754 --> 00:14:51,434 as they would call me Namiki because nobody 402 00:14:51,434 --> 00:14:53,754 knows your real name. So I had one 403 00:14:53,754 --> 00:14:54,574 whole week 404 00:14:55,034 --> 00:14:57,134 where I was nothing but Namiki 405 00:14:57,914 --> 00:14:58,574 to people 406 00:14:59,115 --> 00:15:00,014 and to myself. 407 00:15:00,875 --> 00:15:03,019 And that just kind of reinforced 408 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:05,659 that this path back home, 409 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,220 which was just delightful. 410 00:15:10,039 --> 00:15:12,059 The path back home 411 00:15:13,159 --> 00:15:13,659 through 412 00:15:14,919 --> 00:15:17,740 being called by your childhood name. 413 00:15:18,884 --> 00:15:20,644 One of the many things that happened that 414 00:15:20,644 --> 00:15:21,464 week, but 415 00:15:22,245 --> 00:15:24,644 one of them was just that all week 416 00:15:24,644 --> 00:15:27,304 long, you weren't shit in. You were Namaki, 417 00:15:28,804 --> 00:15:30,745 spicy, feisty Namaki. 418 00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:32,430 Yeah. 419 00:15:33,129 --> 00:15:34,750 So one of my earliest 420 00:15:35,210 --> 00:15:37,550 childhood memories, and this is before we immigrated 421 00:15:37,690 --> 00:15:38,509 to The US, 422 00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:40,430 was that Namaki, 423 00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:42,970 you know, this five or six year old, 424 00:15:42,970 --> 00:15:45,610 very young, my parents would have dinner parties 425 00:15:45,610 --> 00:15:48,154 all the time. And I would literally have 426 00:15:48,215 --> 00:15:49,595 40 grown adults 427 00:15:50,134 --> 00:15:52,695 sitting in a circle formation. I would get 428 00:15:52,695 --> 00:15:54,054 up in the middle of the circle. I 429 00:15:54,054 --> 00:15:55,815 would take a cucumber and make it my 430 00:15:55,815 --> 00:15:56,315 microphone, 431 00:15:57,095 --> 00:15:58,875 and I would put on shows. 432 00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:02,480 I would make fun of people. I would 433 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,160 do all of that. And that was that 434 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,399 is the spirit of Namiki. She is so 435 00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:07,540 such a courageous, 436 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:09,139 confident, 437 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,860 fun, loving little girl. 438 00:16:12,215 --> 00:16:14,455 And then through the Hoffman process, I was 439 00:16:14,455 --> 00:16:15,995 able to see how 440 00:16:16,455 --> 00:16:18,554 when we immigrated to The US 441 00:16:18,934 --> 00:16:21,035 and my first day of school 442 00:16:21,654 --> 00:16:24,855 as I distinctly remember holding my mom's hand 443 00:16:24,855 --> 00:16:26,154 and we got lost 444 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:29,019 on our way to school. And I remember 445 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,420 there was this massive green field, 446 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,679 grassy green field, and the feeling of the 447 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:36,379 water from the grass 448 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,580 and holding my mom's hand and then thinking, 449 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,894 my mom has no idea how to get 450 00:16:41,975 --> 00:16:42,875 to me to school. We are 451 00:16:43,815 --> 00:16:45,355 so, so lost. 452 00:16:46,295 --> 00:16:47,915 And this fear of 453 00:16:49,014 --> 00:16:50,315 just knowing that 454 00:16:51,575 --> 00:16:52,394 we're immigrants, 455 00:16:52,855 --> 00:16:55,595 we don't know our way around this country. 456 00:16:56,429 --> 00:16:58,350 I didn't know a single word of English. 457 00:16:58,350 --> 00:17:00,350 I'd they've just told me emergency, and I 458 00:17:00,350 --> 00:17:01,629 would use it when I wanted to go 459 00:17:01,629 --> 00:17:04,369 to the bathroom because it was an emergency. 460 00:17:05,470 --> 00:17:06,690 But this 461 00:17:06,990 --> 00:17:08,690 felt sense of fear 462 00:17:09,390 --> 00:17:10,849 that came over Namaki. 463 00:17:11,654 --> 00:17:14,055 And then within a few weeks of being 464 00:17:14,055 --> 00:17:16,715 in school, I have another memory of, 465 00:17:17,494 --> 00:17:19,515 you know, we had a homework assignment, 466 00:17:19,815 --> 00:17:21,835 and the teacher put a check mark. 467 00:17:22,375 --> 00:17:24,455 And I went to the only other Persian 468 00:17:24,455 --> 00:17:25,975 kid in class, and I was like, what 469 00:17:25,975 --> 00:17:27,275 does this check mark 470 00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:28,130 mean? 471 00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:30,210 Because I had no idea. 472 00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:33,410 And he's like, that means you did good. 473 00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:35,710 And I swear to god, Drew, it's as 474 00:17:35,710 --> 00:17:38,049 if the light bulb went off. It's like, 475 00:17:39,795 --> 00:17:42,055 Okay. This is how we secure ourselves. 476 00:17:43,555 --> 00:17:45,494 And so, literally, Shereen 477 00:17:46,355 --> 00:17:48,835 went on this journey of, okay. The only 478 00:17:48,835 --> 00:17:50,455 way I can secure myself 479 00:17:50,994 --> 00:17:52,295 in this new environment 480 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,740 is if I succeed and I achieve. 481 00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:58,539 And so I would get straight a's, and 482 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,080 straight a's turned into, okay, now I'm gonna 483 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,080 go to engineering school. I do all the 484 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,700 things that a, quote, unquote, 485 00:18:05,565 --> 00:18:07,345 successful kid would do 486 00:18:07,804 --> 00:18:10,944 with me chasing this sense of safety 487 00:18:11,404 --> 00:18:12,704 and leaving them behind. 488 00:18:13,404 --> 00:18:14,065 You know, 489 00:18:14,365 --> 00:18:15,664 I love that story 490 00:18:15,964 --> 00:18:17,024 of the field 491 00:18:17,325 --> 00:18:18,625 and the wet grass. 492 00:18:19,565 --> 00:18:20,784 Do you think that 493 00:18:21,390 --> 00:18:22,690 that came to you 494 00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:25,809 during your Hoffman week? So on some level, 495 00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:29,570 that feeling of, oh, shit. My mom, 496 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:32,190 she can't be trusted. I'm kind of on 497 00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:32,930 my own. 498 00:18:33,414 --> 00:18:36,694 Do you think that the trauma of that 499 00:18:36,694 --> 00:18:37,194 moment 500 00:18:38,375 --> 00:18:38,875 got 501 00:18:39,335 --> 00:18:39,835 rewritten 502 00:18:40,615 --> 00:18:42,775 on some level during your week? In other 503 00:18:42,775 --> 00:18:45,595 words, you almost allowed yourself to regress 504 00:18:46,059 --> 00:18:48,460 to that younger age as a way of 505 00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:48,960 healing 506 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:50,880 that little girl 507 00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:51,920 who, 508 00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:54,320 still lived inside you 509 00:18:55,099 --> 00:18:56,080 on some level. 510 00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:58,619 Yeah. I and I think part of that 511 00:18:58,619 --> 00:18:59,119 was 512 00:18:59,684 --> 00:19:02,424 to discover that I have this minimizing pattern. 513 00:19:03,044 --> 00:19:05,524 It's what kept me from Hoffman. It's like 514 00:19:05,605 --> 00:19:07,544 and there's this whole theme of 515 00:19:07,924 --> 00:19:08,505 I minimize 516 00:19:09,524 --> 00:19:11,845 anything. There's no problem. And it wasn't until 517 00:19:11,845 --> 00:19:14,005 I was able to see that I have 518 00:19:14,005 --> 00:19:14,825 this pattern 519 00:19:15,250 --> 00:19:16,309 and welcome it 520 00:19:16,769 --> 00:19:19,329 that I were able to see all the 521 00:19:19,329 --> 00:19:22,529 places in my childhood where I had some 522 00:19:22,529 --> 00:19:23,349 sense of 523 00:19:24,369 --> 00:19:27,589 trauma, lack of safety, something's not okay. 524 00:19:28,690 --> 00:19:29,190 And 525 00:19:29,650 --> 00:19:30,549 instead of 526 00:19:31,024 --> 00:19:32,484 just being with it, 527 00:19:32,865 --> 00:19:33,924 which which I 528 00:19:34,224 --> 00:19:35,365 and this is me. 529 00:19:36,784 --> 00:19:37,284 Just 530 00:19:38,384 --> 00:19:40,244 being with it's not okay. 531 00:19:41,984 --> 00:19:44,404 Just sitting with it, it's not okay. 532 00:19:47,150 --> 00:19:48,769 I had never done that. 533 00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:53,250 Yeah. So, 534 00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:56,750 yeah, it's almost like I, 535 00:19:58,115 --> 00:19:59,654 was able to go back 536 00:20:00,035 --> 00:20:01,255 in adult form, 537 00:20:02,914 --> 00:20:03,815 get Namaki, 538 00:20:04,515 --> 00:20:06,434 and then find all the things that happened 539 00:20:06,434 --> 00:20:08,615 to Namaki that were not okay 540 00:20:09,475 --> 00:20:10,455 along the way, 541 00:20:11,490 --> 00:20:13,750 to start this healing process. 542 00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:17,250 You know, this is in part an immigrant 543 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:17,750 story 544 00:20:18,609 --> 00:20:20,950 that there's our common themes that 545 00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:23,984 immigrants face when they come to The US. 546 00:20:23,984 --> 00:20:25,744 They come to a new country. They don't 547 00:20:25,744 --> 00:20:28,164 know the language. All you can say is 548 00:20:28,224 --> 00:20:28,724 emergency 549 00:20:29,744 --> 00:20:31,984 as your first word. I mean, think about 550 00:20:31,984 --> 00:20:32,484 that. 551 00:20:33,345 --> 00:20:33,664 And, 552 00:20:34,304 --> 00:20:36,244 that the process helped you 553 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:40,730 sorta continue the immigration process and settle in 554 00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:42,110 here as a rightfully 555 00:20:42,650 --> 00:20:43,150 claimed 556 00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:44,430 citizen, 557 00:20:45,049 --> 00:20:45,549 and 558 00:20:46,009 --> 00:20:47,309 this is your country. 559 00:20:47,769 --> 00:20:49,230 You are home here. 560 00:20:50,515 --> 00:20:51,575 I'm home everywhere. 561 00:20:54,994 --> 00:20:57,875 I love The US because I've learned so 562 00:20:57,875 --> 00:20:59,714 much, and I've grown so much here. And 563 00:20:59,714 --> 00:21:00,934 I obviously love 564 00:21:01,394 --> 00:21:03,734 Iran because it's my country of origin. 565 00:21:05,150 --> 00:21:05,970 But I think 566 00:21:06,429 --> 00:21:09,150 it was through my IVF journey and this, 567 00:21:09,150 --> 00:21:11,569 like, massive, massive blow 568 00:21:12,269 --> 00:21:14,609 of, you know, not being successful 569 00:21:15,630 --> 00:21:16,769 that I got to 570 00:21:18,109 --> 00:21:18,609 experience. 571 00:21:20,214 --> 00:21:21,414 I don't know how to say it, but 572 00:21:21,414 --> 00:21:22,954 it's this notion of 573 00:21:24,694 --> 00:21:25,674 falling back 574 00:21:27,014 --> 00:21:27,914 into trust 575 00:21:29,494 --> 00:21:29,994 with 576 00:21:30,454 --> 00:21:31,835 my place in the world 577 00:21:33,539 --> 00:21:36,179 that I don't get to control all these 578 00:21:36,179 --> 00:21:38,200 things that I've been trying to control. 579 00:21:39,380 --> 00:21:39,880 And 580 00:21:40,339 --> 00:21:42,740 there might be a bigger way, way, way 581 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:43,799 bigger arc 582 00:21:44,179 --> 00:21:45,480 for my life story 583 00:21:46,134 --> 00:21:48,315 than the one that my bully or 584 00:21:48,615 --> 00:21:50,875 Shireen is trying to carve out. 585 00:21:52,134 --> 00:21:55,595 I kinda rested in this I don't know 586 00:21:56,294 --> 00:21:57,275 what's next, 587 00:21:58,054 --> 00:22:00,775 but I'm gonna rest and trust that it's 588 00:22:00,775 --> 00:22:02,929 part of my life story. 589 00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:05,329 And so it's this 590 00:22:05,789 --> 00:22:06,289 connection, 591 00:22:06,589 --> 00:22:09,169 I think, with with a way, way bigger 592 00:22:10,669 --> 00:22:12,289 sense of self 593 00:22:12,909 --> 00:22:15,710 that then doesn't need a country to belong 594 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:16,210 to. 595 00:22:16,804 --> 00:22:18,345 Yeah. There's a transcendent 596 00:22:18,964 --> 00:22:19,464 piece. 597 00:22:20,484 --> 00:22:20,984 Namaki, 598 00:22:22,244 --> 00:22:23,545 let me ask you a question. 599 00:22:24,085 --> 00:22:24,585 So 600 00:22:25,525 --> 00:22:26,984 you come out of the process 601 00:22:27,924 --> 00:22:30,744 and you take this IVF journey. 602 00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:32,960 You feel the transcendent 603 00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:35,359 nature of the process. 604 00:22:36,380 --> 00:22:39,359 How does the process help you move forward? 605 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:40,160 What happens 606 00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:43,759 next in this chapter post process? 607 00:22:44,524 --> 00:22:47,424 Yeah. So I've been a an engineer 608 00:22:47,964 --> 00:22:49,024 and a scientist, 609 00:22:49,644 --> 00:22:52,384 and I've seen this kind of gradual transformation 610 00:22:52,765 --> 00:22:54,384 to the woo woo land. 611 00:22:56,284 --> 00:22:59,109 But I've started to, like, believe that, you 612 00:22:59,109 --> 00:23:00,789 know, it's a fun game to play that 613 00:23:00,789 --> 00:23:02,490 maybe things aren't a coincidence. 614 00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:05,289 And so, literally, on my first night 615 00:23:05,670 --> 00:23:08,070 coming out of Hoffman where, you know, you're 616 00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:10,410 kinda in this period by yourself, I went 617 00:23:10,534 --> 00:23:13,015 and took myself to dinner, and I'm sitting 618 00:23:13,015 --> 00:23:13,595 at dinner. 619 00:23:14,294 --> 00:23:15,755 And out of the blue, 620 00:23:16,214 --> 00:23:19,194 this woman who's a documentary filmmaker that 621 00:23:19,734 --> 00:23:22,934 actually created a documentary called thought inspired by 622 00:23:22,934 --> 00:23:24,234 our IVF journey, 623 00:23:24,694 --> 00:23:26,234 she walks up to the same 624 00:23:26,579 --> 00:23:27,079 restaurant. 625 00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:31,000 I was part of the documentary that she 626 00:23:31,299 --> 00:23:31,799 created. 627 00:23:32,339 --> 00:23:35,059 And I was like, oh, woah. Well, that's 628 00:23:35,059 --> 00:23:35,720 a really 629 00:23:36,659 --> 00:23:37,799 interesting coincidence 630 00:23:38,179 --> 00:23:38,679 here. 631 00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:39,960 And so 632 00:23:40,419 --> 00:23:41,559 I started just 633 00:23:42,335 --> 00:23:43,234 paying attention 634 00:23:43,535 --> 00:23:46,494 to these different moments that are not you 635 00:23:46,494 --> 00:23:48,335 know, but what if there's a serendipity in 636 00:23:48,335 --> 00:23:49,154 it? And 637 00:23:49,535 --> 00:23:50,994 one of the things that 638 00:23:51,695 --> 00:23:54,894 has happened post Hoffman is I noticed that 639 00:23:54,894 --> 00:23:55,634 I'm gravitating 640 00:23:56,255 --> 00:23:58,789 much more to a place of wanting to 641 00:23:58,789 --> 00:24:02,490 share my true journey, which includes my suffering 642 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:03,609 and my heartbreak 643 00:24:04,309 --> 00:24:06,789 through this IVF journey and just being a 644 00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:07,289 human 645 00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:09,210 as opposed to my success. 646 00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:12,174 It's a really interesting turn because all of 647 00:24:12,174 --> 00:24:13,474 my life was around 648 00:24:14,015 --> 00:24:16,174 look at me and how successful I can 649 00:24:16,174 --> 00:24:17,075 be versus 650 00:24:17,775 --> 00:24:20,755 no. I wanna deeply connect with other humans 651 00:24:21,535 --> 00:24:22,914 from the fact that 652 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,200 I am an imperfect human 653 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:27,839 going through an imperfect process. 654 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:31,039 Yeah. So that was, like, a fun little 655 00:24:31,099 --> 00:24:31,599 twist 656 00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:33,440 right out of Hoffman. 657 00:24:34,059 --> 00:24:36,559 Yeah. So you were in her documentary, 658 00:24:37,019 --> 00:24:39,525 and then there she shows up, And you 659 00:24:39,525 --> 00:24:41,225 take it in part as a message 660 00:24:41,684 --> 00:24:43,705 that keep pursuing this 661 00:24:44,565 --> 00:24:47,525 story, this journey that you went through of 662 00:24:47,525 --> 00:24:49,545 IVF and not being able 663 00:24:50,325 --> 00:24:51,225 to have children. 664 00:24:52,309 --> 00:24:54,730 And so how has that progressed 665 00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:57,849 in the time since you left Hoffman? 666 00:24:58,470 --> 00:25:01,109 I'm actually helping just promote and create more 667 00:25:01,109 --> 00:25:01,609 awareness 668 00:25:02,150 --> 00:25:03,210 around the documentary. 669 00:25:04,005 --> 00:25:06,085 So we're, you know, just bringing it to 670 00:25:06,085 --> 00:25:06,585 different 671 00:25:06,884 --> 00:25:08,265 women's groups, especially 672 00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:12,005 entrepreneur groups or, like, instances where, you know, 673 00:25:12,005 --> 00:25:14,644 women might be holding off on having children 674 00:25:14,644 --> 00:25:17,045 until later in their life, and I definitely 675 00:25:17,045 --> 00:25:19,000 have a passion for it. But I'm also 676 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,059 noticing that there's just a deep felt passion 677 00:25:22,679 --> 00:25:25,400 not only about IVF, but just people going 678 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:25,900 through 679 00:25:26,679 --> 00:25:27,900 some nature of 680 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:28,859 transition 681 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,140 slash 682 00:25:30,974 --> 00:25:33,454 suffering. So I'm now supporting friends that are 683 00:25:33,454 --> 00:25:34,595 going through divorce. 684 00:25:35,375 --> 00:25:37,615 And even though it's some not something that 685 00:25:37,615 --> 00:25:39,535 I have a direct experience of, but I 686 00:25:39,535 --> 00:25:40,194 feel like 687 00:25:40,974 --> 00:25:42,994 because I've had this felt experience 688 00:25:43,694 --> 00:25:44,194 of 689 00:25:44,609 --> 00:25:46,869 going through a really difficult transition 690 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:50,049 period in my life and having lots of 691 00:25:50,049 --> 00:25:52,849 learnings from it that I wanna kinda be 692 00:25:52,849 --> 00:25:54,930 in in that space and hold that space 693 00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:55,829 for other people, 694 00:25:56,369 --> 00:25:58,710 going through difficult transitions in their life. 695 00:25:59,234 --> 00:26:01,974 You know, we can talk about pivoting and 696 00:26:02,434 --> 00:26:03,174 that everybody 697 00:26:03,634 --> 00:26:04,855 goes through transitions, 698 00:26:05,315 --> 00:26:05,815 but 699 00:26:06,275 --> 00:26:07,654 this isn't easy stuff 700 00:26:08,115 --> 00:26:08,855 to have 701 00:26:09,474 --> 00:26:12,595 a vision for a child or a vision 702 00:26:12,595 --> 00:26:13,414 for a marriage 703 00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:16,630 and then to have those things end and 704 00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:17,130 die. 705 00:26:17,829 --> 00:26:18,329 And 706 00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:20,630 to be in the space of grief and 707 00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:21,130 loss 708 00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:24,789 and to help people rebuild something after that, 709 00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:25,690 after divorce, 710 00:26:26,309 --> 00:26:26,809 after 711 00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:29,289 the dream of having children, 712 00:26:29,884 --> 00:26:31,825 That's not easy stuff. 713 00:26:32,845 --> 00:26:33,345 Shenan, 714 00:26:33,725 --> 00:26:36,225 what do people need in that space 715 00:26:36,765 --> 00:26:37,904 that you work with? 716 00:26:38,684 --> 00:26:40,205 So this actually comes from, 717 00:26:40,684 --> 00:26:42,525 some of the work that I've done on 718 00:26:42,525 --> 00:26:45,410 the research side, which I'm also really passionate 719 00:26:45,410 --> 00:26:48,289 about, like, just the research around psychology, positive 720 00:26:48,289 --> 00:26:51,650 psychology, behavioral science. And there's actually research that's 721 00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:53,329 come out of out of, like, a couple 722 00:26:53,329 --> 00:26:54,150 years ago 723 00:26:54,529 --> 00:26:55,670 that shows that 724 00:26:56,049 --> 00:26:58,690 if you actually view your life as a 725 00:26:58,690 --> 00:26:59,750 hero's journey, 726 00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:02,684 then you're gonna actually end up having a 727 00:27:02,684 --> 00:27:03,424 lot more 728 00:27:04,125 --> 00:27:07,664 both patience, but also life satisfaction. And so 729 00:27:08,045 --> 00:27:10,705 think of a arc of a hero's journey. 730 00:27:10,765 --> 00:27:11,265 We 731 00:27:11,565 --> 00:27:13,244 you know, going around our way, we have 732 00:27:13,244 --> 00:27:15,599 this big obstacle. It could be this transition. 733 00:27:15,740 --> 00:27:17,839 It could be divorce. It could be IVF, 734 00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:18,400 etcetera. 735 00:27:18,940 --> 00:27:19,440 But 736 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:23,679 embedded in it is such a pregnant space 737 00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:25,039 for learning. 738 00:27:25,819 --> 00:27:27,259 I think what I see is a lot 739 00:27:27,259 --> 00:27:29,224 of times, whether it's trauma, 740 00:27:29,525 --> 00:27:30,025 suffering, 741 00:27:30,724 --> 00:27:32,105 pain in our lives, 742 00:27:32,565 --> 00:27:34,904 we might have a tendency to wanna 743 00:27:35,605 --> 00:27:36,825 walk around it 744 00:27:37,365 --> 00:27:38,984 and not go through it. 745 00:27:39,684 --> 00:27:41,765 And it's the going through it like a 746 00:27:41,765 --> 00:27:42,744 hero does 747 00:27:43,309 --> 00:27:45,890 where all of the beautiful learnings 748 00:27:46,349 --> 00:27:47,089 come in. 749 00:27:47,869 --> 00:27:49,490 So I wanna be a sidekick 750 00:27:50,509 --> 00:27:52,190 to the hero, which is, you know, my 751 00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:54,289 friend going through a divorce or other people 752 00:27:54,829 --> 00:27:56,690 to walk alongside them 753 00:27:57,055 --> 00:27:59,055 in this change, in this transformation. And I 754 00:27:59,055 --> 00:28:03,394 think there's something deeply beautiful that gets imprinted 755 00:28:03,695 --> 00:28:04,355 in you 756 00:28:04,734 --> 00:28:06,515 when you have gone through that. 757 00:28:07,214 --> 00:28:09,775 My husband and I love doing adventures, nature 758 00:28:09,775 --> 00:28:12,335 adventures, and we have a vision of visiting 759 00:28:12,335 --> 00:28:14,710 all the national parks before we die. We're 760 00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:17,029 about 28 parks in. But one of my 761 00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:20,869 favorite parks is Denali National Park. So one 762 00:28:20,869 --> 00:28:23,349 of the things that's beautiful about Denali, it's 763 00:28:23,349 --> 00:28:25,349 one of the only national parks in our 764 00:28:25,349 --> 00:28:25,849 country 765 00:28:26,309 --> 00:28:28,329 that there are no paved paths. 766 00:28:29,125 --> 00:28:30,825 You have no hiking route. 767 00:28:31,525 --> 00:28:33,605 So, like, literally, you go in, you get 768 00:28:33,605 --> 00:28:35,684 a backcountry permit, and they give you, like, 769 00:28:35,684 --> 00:28:37,605 a, you know, square footage mile by mile, 770 00:28:37,605 --> 00:28:38,345 and you're like, 771 00:28:38,644 --> 00:28:41,444 go hike here. So you literally are paving 772 00:28:41,444 --> 00:28:43,224 your own path as you go. 773 00:28:43,609 --> 00:28:45,150 And I still have this 774 00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:46,190 memory 775 00:28:46,809 --> 00:28:49,690 of we had a simple river crossing. And 776 00:28:49,690 --> 00:28:51,690 had there been a bridge across the river, 777 00:28:51,690 --> 00:28:53,930 we would have literally crossed this little river 778 00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:56,424 in, like, two minutes, maybe. It took us, 779 00:28:56,424 --> 00:28:59,465 like, an hour and forty five minutes of 780 00:28:59,465 --> 00:29:01,305 us trying to figure out how in the 781 00:29:01,305 --> 00:29:03,884 world are we gonna traverse this river 782 00:29:04,585 --> 00:29:05,565 without a bridge. 783 00:29:06,825 --> 00:29:09,384 And there's something that gets imprinted in you 784 00:29:09,384 --> 00:29:11,164 when you've had to traverse 785 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,500 life 786 00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:15,140 without a clear path, 787 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:18,820 but being willing to go through the river. 788 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,900 My experience of Denali National Park is forever 789 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:23,460 transformed 790 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,080 relative to somebody that might be seeing it 791 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,365 on a tour bus because I got to 792 00:29:28,365 --> 00:29:28,865 experience 793 00:29:29,805 --> 00:29:30,705 the humbling, 794 00:29:31,244 --> 00:29:34,445 humbling experience of crossing a river that took 795 00:29:34,445 --> 00:29:36,065 an hour and forty five minutes. 796 00:29:36,605 --> 00:29:38,125 And so I think that's part of what 797 00:29:38,125 --> 00:29:39,105 makes life beautiful. 798 00:29:39,910 --> 00:29:42,089 You know, when you talk about that, you're 799 00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:45,690 I'm imagining the swift moving 800 00:29:46,069 --> 00:29:49,609 water and the need to find solid footing 801 00:29:50,309 --> 00:29:51,769 on the rocks underneath 802 00:29:52,724 --> 00:29:54,964 and then the temperature of the water, the 803 00:29:54,964 --> 00:29:57,204 fact that it is so cold, it just 804 00:29:57,204 --> 00:29:58,025 was snow 805 00:29:58,724 --> 00:30:00,505 maybe a few hours ago, 806 00:30:01,125 --> 00:30:01,625 and 807 00:30:01,924 --> 00:30:04,724 the depth of it. And it's coming up 808 00:30:04,724 --> 00:30:06,505 to your knees and maybe 809 00:30:06,859 --> 00:30:08,940 above your knees, and then it's to your 810 00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:09,759 waist. And 811 00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:11,279 the visceral 812 00:30:12,220 --> 00:30:14,640 experience of crossing a river 813 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:17,500 is so much a part of your being 814 00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:19,259 that from the tour bus, you would have 815 00:30:19,259 --> 00:30:19,920 no idea. 816 00:30:21,434 --> 00:30:23,295 And this idea of inner landscape 817 00:30:23,755 --> 00:30:27,295 and outer landscape and how that outer landscape 818 00:30:27,355 --> 00:30:28,255 of the river 819 00:30:28,634 --> 00:30:29,375 is also 820 00:30:29,755 --> 00:30:31,214 this inner landscape, 821 00:30:32,234 --> 00:30:34,974 Namaki, that you're talking about of crossing 822 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,440 and transitioning to new areas and new ways 823 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,820 of being in your life. 824 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:42,820 Wow. 825 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,320 What do you notice in that matching of 826 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,140 those two? 827 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,140 It sounds cliche, 828 00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:51,214 but it's this deep 829 00:30:51,835 --> 00:30:53,855 appreciation for the journey of it all. 830 00:30:54,315 --> 00:30:55,375 And this realization 831 00:30:55,755 --> 00:30:56,734 that, you know, 832 00:30:57,355 --> 00:30:59,914 is the journey of crossing the rivers, the 833 00:30:59,914 --> 00:31:01,134 journey of overcoming 834 00:31:01,755 --> 00:31:03,615 these obstacles with myself, 835 00:31:04,234 --> 00:31:05,855 with my husband, etcetera, 836 00:31:06,769 --> 00:31:08,069 that makes my life 837 00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:10,389 so unique and beautiful 838 00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:13,970 and just embracing it. One of my favorite 839 00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:15,269 quotes is Teddy Roosevelt. 840 00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:17,809 The credit belongs to the man in the 841 00:31:17,809 --> 00:31:20,345 rain. Time and time again, goes in and 842 00:31:20,345 --> 00:31:22,984 is bloodied and bludgeoned, but, like, keeps going. 843 00:31:22,984 --> 00:31:24,825 And I think that's the beauty of life. 844 00:31:24,825 --> 00:31:27,085 And I sit and wonder thinking, 845 00:31:28,025 --> 00:31:30,904 why is it that we have such a, 846 00:31:30,904 --> 00:31:33,545 I don't know, weird relationship with suffering where 847 00:31:33,545 --> 00:31:37,240 we don't want to experience suffering. 848 00:31:38,099 --> 00:31:39,240 It's not easy, 849 00:31:39,779 --> 00:31:40,920 but it's beautiful. 850 00:31:42,019 --> 00:31:42,680 Like, it's 851 00:31:43,059 --> 00:31:43,559 profoundly 852 00:31:45,460 --> 00:31:45,960 beautiful 853 00:31:48,634 --> 00:31:50,414 part of the human experience. 854 00:31:51,434 --> 00:31:52,335 It redefines 855 00:31:52,875 --> 00:31:53,375 perfectionism, 856 00:31:53,835 --> 00:31:55,855 doesn't it, from this antiseptic 857 00:31:56,315 --> 00:31:56,974 kind of 858 00:31:57,515 --> 00:31:58,015 purification, 859 00:31:59,275 --> 00:31:59,775 whitewashing 860 00:32:00,154 --> 00:32:01,454 of the human experience 861 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,259 to the messy, 862 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:04,460 beautiful, 863 00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:06,299 deep, 864 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:07,980 and 865 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,019 the river crossing that is perilous 866 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,820 and fantastic at the same time. 867 00:32:14,295 --> 00:32:17,434 Yeah. And I'll say, I think another beautiful 868 00:32:18,055 --> 00:32:20,875 realization that's gonna come out for me is, 869 00:32:21,015 --> 00:32:22,394 you know, having struggled 870 00:32:22,695 --> 00:32:23,434 so much 871 00:32:24,215 --> 00:32:25,275 to bring life, 872 00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:27,210 I have this 873 00:32:27,589 --> 00:32:29,690 sort of deep felt appreciation 874 00:32:31,349 --> 00:32:32,169 for life. 875 00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:35,429 It's, 876 00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:38,970 they say I was an accident, 877 00:32:40,069 --> 00:32:42,654 which kinda makes sense logically. My two sisters 878 00:32:42,654 --> 00:32:44,414 are nine and 12 years older than me. 879 00:32:44,414 --> 00:32:46,994 And Your parents said you were an accident? 880 00:32:47,134 --> 00:32:48,815 Well, they haven't said it, but it's kinda 881 00:32:48,974 --> 00:32:50,274 I'm pretty sure I was. 882 00:32:50,894 --> 00:32:53,134 I mean, my two siblings are nine and 883 00:32:53,134 --> 00:32:55,234 12 years older. My mom was in college. 884 00:32:55,375 --> 00:32:57,769 Like, I don't think there was any planning 885 00:32:57,769 --> 00:32:58,910 of me coming along. 886 00:32:59,450 --> 00:33:00,809 You know, one way to look at it 887 00:33:00,809 --> 00:33:02,410 is like, ah, it was an accident. I 888 00:33:02,410 --> 00:33:04,650 wasn't meant to be. And another way to 889 00:33:04,650 --> 00:33:05,710 look at it is like, 890 00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:07,309 hot dang. 891 00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:10,190 Life wanted to happen, 892 00:33:11,054 --> 00:33:13,954 and life wanted to happen in this beautiful 893 00:33:14,095 --> 00:33:14,595 way. 894 00:33:15,054 --> 00:33:16,595 And just like this 895 00:33:17,694 --> 00:33:18,194 wow. 896 00:33:19,454 --> 00:33:20,835 Despite all the ads, 897 00:33:22,095 --> 00:33:24,194 when I connect to that part, 898 00:33:24,809 --> 00:33:26,829 there is this connection of 899 00:33:27,210 --> 00:33:29,049 going back to, you know, earlier where we're 900 00:33:29,049 --> 00:33:31,389 talking about, like like, visioning and 901 00:33:31,849 --> 00:33:34,169 okay. So if life meant to happen through 902 00:33:34,169 --> 00:33:34,669 me, 903 00:33:35,450 --> 00:33:35,950 then 904 00:33:37,235 --> 00:33:39,315 what do I wanna do with it? How 905 00:33:39,315 --> 00:33:40,455 do I wanna move 906 00:33:40,914 --> 00:33:41,735 life through? 907 00:33:42,914 --> 00:33:45,394 Yeah. I think, to me, it's the biggest 908 00:33:45,394 --> 00:33:46,695 gift is to walk 909 00:33:47,075 --> 00:33:49,815 by people's side as they cross that river. 910 00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,660 Sharin, what's it been like to 911 00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,940 tell your story here to reflect on 912 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,839 life before, during, and after your process to 913 00:33:59,839 --> 00:34:00,660 share this? 914 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,099 What do you notice? 915 00:34:03,505 --> 00:34:05,664 Mhmm. I just had a vision of my 916 00:34:05,664 --> 00:34:06,164 grandfather 917 00:34:07,025 --> 00:34:07,765 pop up. 918 00:34:15,690 --> 00:34:17,849 I'm the last grandchild. So on my mom's 919 00:34:17,849 --> 00:34:20,510 side, I'm the I'm the very last intro. 920 00:34:21,849 --> 00:34:24,250 And, you know, there was a period before 921 00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:26,829 all of this Hoffman and everything where I 922 00:34:28,184 --> 00:34:31,244 felt like, oh, I'm not extending his lineage, 923 00:34:32,585 --> 00:34:34,045 by not having a child. 924 00:34:35,305 --> 00:34:35,805 And 925 00:34:37,625 --> 00:34:39,085 I feel like I've 926 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,500 I've reconnected 927 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,559 through Hoffman, and a lot of it has 928 00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:44,739 been just reconnecting with my roots. 929 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,700 I reconnected 930 00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:49,220 with his spirit 931 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,700 and how it runs through me. 932 00:34:52,284 --> 00:34:54,684 And it is a spirit of adventure, and 933 00:34:54,684 --> 00:34:57,105 it is a spirit of being in service 934 00:34:57,244 --> 00:34:57,905 to people. 935 00:34:58,605 --> 00:34:59,105 And 936 00:34:59,804 --> 00:35:00,385 I think 937 00:35:01,164 --> 00:35:03,405 had I had children, I would probably be 938 00:35:03,405 --> 00:35:05,025 pretty focused on 939 00:35:05,690 --> 00:35:07,550 one life or maybe two lives. 940 00:35:08,329 --> 00:35:08,829 And 941 00:35:09,450 --> 00:35:11,690 in a beautiful way, I get to now 942 00:35:11,690 --> 00:35:12,910 be in service 943 00:35:13,369 --> 00:35:14,829 to many lives. 944 00:35:15,610 --> 00:35:18,190 And so I kinda had this vision of 945 00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:20,110 almost my grandfather just 946 00:35:20,655 --> 00:35:23,135 setting me free into the world to be 947 00:35:23,135 --> 00:35:24,675 of service to many lives. 948 00:35:25,215 --> 00:35:26,994 So grateful for this conversation. 949 00:35:27,775 --> 00:35:29,394 Thank you, Drew. Likewise. 950 00:35:30,175 --> 00:35:30,914 Thank you, 951 00:35:31,375 --> 00:35:31,875 Shiden, 952 00:35:32,469 --> 00:35:33,769 and thank you, Namaki. 953 00:35:34,309 --> 00:35:34,809 Mhmm. 954 00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:36,650 Thank you. 955 00:35:45,174 --> 00:35:47,174 Thank you for listening to our podcast. My 956 00:35:47,174 --> 00:35:49,574 name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and 957 00:35:49,574 --> 00:35:51,674 president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. 958 00:35:52,135 --> 00:35:53,434 And I'm Razi Ingrassi, 959 00:35:54,135 --> 00:35:57,174 Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute 960 00:35:57,174 --> 00:35:57,674 Foundation. 961 00:35:58,329 --> 00:36:01,150 Our mission is to provide people greater access 962 00:36:01,210 --> 00:36:03,609 to the wisdom and power of love. In 963 00:36:03,609 --> 00:36:06,109 themselves, in each other and in the world. 964 00:36:06,409 --> 00:36:10,109 To find out more, please go to hoffmaninstitute.org.