1 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:04,419 There was something about Hoffman 2 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,620 and the experiential nature of it to 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,699 kind of get beyond that 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,559 really start feeling because I had lost the 5 00:00:12,559 --> 00:00:14,400 ability to tell you what I felt. If 6 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:15,744 you were to ask me, how do I 7 00:00:15,744 --> 00:00:19,045 feel? My response was fine. And I literally 8 00:00:19,184 --> 00:00:21,984 couldn't tell you anything else. It's like, I'm 9 00:00:21,984 --> 00:00:24,484 fine. But I couldn't tell you I'm sad, 10 00:00:24,864 --> 00:00:25,925 that I'm frustrated, 11 00:00:26,384 --> 00:00:27,364 that I'm angry. 12 00:00:28,059 --> 00:00:30,960 The capacity to feel had just been lost. 13 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:33,280 Hoffman gave that back to me. 14 00:00:34,619 --> 00:00:37,579 Hello, and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a 15 00:00:37,579 --> 00:00:40,320 podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. 16 00:00:40,515 --> 00:00:42,434 My name is Sadie Hanna. And in this 17 00:00:42,434 --> 00:00:46,195 podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with 18 00:00:46,195 --> 00:00:49,395 graduates about their courageous journey inward, and how 19 00:00:49,395 --> 00:00:52,034 their love and light are living in the 20 00:00:52,034 --> 00:00:54,774 world around them. Love's Everyday Radius. 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,780 Thank you for being here and welcome. 22 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:04,760 Hey, everyone, and welcome. I'm Sadie. I'm here 23 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,540 with Doctor. Cash Trivedi. 24 00:01:07,655 --> 00:01:09,994 Cash is a Hoffman grad. 25 00:01:10,295 --> 00:01:11,194 He's a gastroenterologist 26 00:01:11,655 --> 00:01:13,814 for the past fifteen years. He owns his 27 00:01:13,814 --> 00:01:14,954 own private practice. 28 00:01:15,814 --> 00:01:17,515 He's a husband. He's a father. 29 00:01:18,135 --> 00:01:19,034 Cash, welcome. 30 00:01:19,590 --> 00:01:21,269 Oh, Sadie, I'm so excited to be here 31 00:01:21,269 --> 00:01:22,950 with you. Yeah. So good to see you 32 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:25,189 and hear you. Yes. Thank you for being 33 00:01:25,189 --> 00:01:25,689 here. 34 00:01:26,469 --> 00:01:28,009 What I was appreciating 35 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:29,930 about our connection, 36 00:01:30,390 --> 00:01:32,649 both of us having a background in medicine, 37 00:01:33,115 --> 00:01:34,015 this could be 38 00:01:34,555 --> 00:01:35,775 bridging the two. 39 00:01:36,474 --> 00:01:38,655 Hoffman is this experience of 40 00:01:39,194 --> 00:01:39,694 emotional 41 00:01:39,995 --> 00:01:40,495 presence, 42 00:01:41,034 --> 00:01:41,534 spirituality, 43 00:01:42,155 --> 00:01:44,814 which are often really not part of medical 44 00:01:44,875 --> 00:01:45,375 practice. 45 00:01:46,019 --> 00:01:48,180 Beginning with this, what would you like for 46 00:01:48,180 --> 00:01:50,200 our listeners to know about you? 47 00:01:50,579 --> 00:01:53,159 Well, I consider myself a regular person. 48 00:01:54,340 --> 00:01:55,239 You know, I 49 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:56,840 have listened to 50 00:01:57,299 --> 00:01:59,619 nearly all of the Hoffman podcasts. And before 51 00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:01,635 I did Hoffman, I really tried to learn 52 00:02:01,635 --> 00:02:03,635 as much as I could about it without 53 00:02:03,635 --> 00:02:06,114 actually learning the specifics about it because I 54 00:02:06,114 --> 00:02:07,334 wanted the unique 55 00:02:07,875 --> 00:02:10,115 experience. But, you know, I think what you're 56 00:02:10,115 --> 00:02:12,455 saying in terms of there's so much actually 57 00:02:12,594 --> 00:02:13,895 the potential of spirituality 58 00:02:14,194 --> 00:02:15,814 and the potential of, 59 00:02:16,159 --> 00:02:18,019 especially, mental health and 60 00:02:18,879 --> 00:02:20,159 how we see that all the time and 61 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:21,699 how it affects our bodies. 62 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 It's kind of gotten a bit more clear 63 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,519 since Hoffman. But personally, for me, I came 64 00:02:27,519 --> 00:02:28,259 to Hoffman 65 00:02:28,959 --> 00:02:30,900 for my own personal journey, 66 00:02:31,664 --> 00:02:34,064 and then whatever seems to bleed off into 67 00:02:34,064 --> 00:02:34,805 the professional 68 00:02:35,584 --> 00:02:38,224 sense is kind of crazy. But, yeah, I 69 00:02:38,224 --> 00:02:39,205 see so much 70 00:02:39,504 --> 00:02:40,805 mental health affecting 71 00:02:41,264 --> 00:02:43,525 gut issues and people with 72 00:02:43,969 --> 00:02:46,310 severe belly pain or gastrointestinal 73 00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:47,829 issues. And, you know, 74 00:02:48,209 --> 00:02:49,810 there's so many people out there where you 75 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:51,969 do every test and everything is negative, but 76 00:02:51,969 --> 00:02:53,269 this is kind of beyond 77 00:02:53,810 --> 00:02:56,549 the realm of objective data. 78 00:02:56,865 --> 00:02:59,344 And sometimes there's just not a test, and 79 00:02:59,344 --> 00:03:01,104 it seems like and I do explain this 80 00:03:01,104 --> 00:03:03,504 to patients. I'm like, as many tests as 81 00:03:03,504 --> 00:03:04,245 we have, 82 00:03:04,544 --> 00:03:07,425 it's so common for us to do our 83 00:03:07,425 --> 00:03:09,664 procedures and take a look and do the 84 00:03:09,664 --> 00:03:12,449 test and everything is normal, but it's not 85 00:03:12,449 --> 00:03:12,949 normal. 86 00:03:13,650 --> 00:03:15,830 You know, more and more, I in myself, 87 00:03:15,889 --> 00:03:17,569 I see it. I think sometimes it's a 88 00:03:17,569 --> 00:03:19,330 kind of a healing of the spirit that 89 00:03:19,330 --> 00:03:20,710 needs to happen, 90 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:23,189 kind of an awakening to one's quadrinity 91 00:03:23,490 --> 00:03:25,875 using Hoffman speak. I don't mean to be 92 00:03:25,875 --> 00:03:28,194 woo woo about it. Right? But for me, 93 00:03:28,194 --> 00:03:28,854 the real 94 00:03:29,314 --> 00:03:32,514 impact of Hoffman was personal, and that's kind 95 00:03:32,514 --> 00:03:33,655 of what brought me there. 96 00:03:34,114 --> 00:03:34,614 Yes. 97 00:03:34,914 --> 00:03:36,454 So let's go there 98 00:03:36,754 --> 00:03:37,254 first. 99 00:03:38,129 --> 00:03:39,349 Tell us a bit about 100 00:03:39,969 --> 00:03:41,729 where you were before you came to the 101 00:03:41,729 --> 00:03:43,889 process. How did you know it was the 102 00:03:43,889 --> 00:03:46,469 right choice for you? What was happening? 103 00:03:47,329 --> 00:03:49,489 As long as I remember, I've struggled with 104 00:03:49,489 --> 00:03:49,989 depression, 105 00:03:50,370 --> 00:03:53,169 anxiety as well, but the anxiety aspect of 106 00:03:53,169 --> 00:03:55,905 it, for some reason, really started spiking. 107 00:03:56,525 --> 00:03:57,824 After I turned 50, 108 00:03:58,284 --> 00:03:59,885 maybe it was a midlife thing. I don't 109 00:03:59,885 --> 00:04:01,264 know. Just kind of a recalibration 110 00:04:01,564 --> 00:04:03,085 of what am I doing, where am I 111 00:04:03,085 --> 00:04:06,365 at. I felt disconnected from myself. I felt 112 00:04:06,365 --> 00:04:06,865 disconnected 113 00:04:07,245 --> 00:04:08,224 from my work. 114 00:04:08,620 --> 00:04:09,680 I didn't like myself. 115 00:04:10,540 --> 00:04:13,439 I couldn't relate to my inner child anymore, 116 00:04:13,740 --> 00:04:16,879 though I tried doing various practices or whatnot. 117 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:20,220 I knew something was there regarding childhood. I 118 00:04:20,220 --> 00:04:22,139 knew that there were some patterns there that 119 00:04:22,139 --> 00:04:24,555 I just was not able to unearth and 120 00:04:24,555 --> 00:04:27,435 no amount of therapy or sort of self 121 00:04:27,435 --> 00:04:27,935 investigation 122 00:04:29,355 --> 00:04:32,795 really seemed to touch it. So nowadays, when 123 00:04:32,795 --> 00:04:34,254 in doubt, ask ChattGPT. 124 00:04:37,189 --> 00:04:39,750 You said I knew I'd lost connection to 125 00:04:39,750 --> 00:04:42,329 my inner child. How did you know that? 126 00:04:42,629 --> 00:04:43,129 What 127 00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:44,810 led you there? 128 00:04:45,269 --> 00:04:48,329 About a year ago, I started doing somatic 129 00:04:48,389 --> 00:04:48,889 therapy. 130 00:04:49,394 --> 00:04:52,295 So there's different kinds of psychotherapy. There's cognitive 131 00:04:52,355 --> 00:04:54,675 behavioral therapy and then DBT. There's a lot 132 00:04:54,675 --> 00:04:56,535 of different kinds, EMDR, for example. 133 00:04:57,074 --> 00:04:59,154 But I had tried a couple of those, 134 00:04:59,154 --> 00:05:01,154 and I don't know. It felt like that 135 00:05:01,154 --> 00:05:02,535 there wasn't any lasting 136 00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:05,470 positive effect. I mean, I'd feel better for 137 00:05:05,470 --> 00:05:07,069 a while, and then I would kinda go 138 00:05:07,069 --> 00:05:09,550 back to my same patterns. My wife had 139 00:05:09,550 --> 00:05:12,269 done somatic therapy, and I said, why not? 140 00:05:12,269 --> 00:05:14,029 Let's just go ahead and do it. Somatic 141 00:05:14,029 --> 00:05:15,569 therapy has an experiential 142 00:05:16,714 --> 00:05:19,035 aspect. That's actually a big aspect about it, 143 00:05:19,035 --> 00:05:19,774 which is 144 00:05:20,314 --> 00:05:22,894 totally unlike what I do. I'm a intellectual 145 00:05:23,035 --> 00:05:25,034 guy. I stay in my intellect a lot, 146 00:05:25,034 --> 00:05:28,414 and that leads my solutions for everything. 147 00:05:29,050 --> 00:05:31,129 And I couldn't break out of that. I 148 00:05:31,129 --> 00:05:33,150 remember one time I was doing a session 149 00:05:33,449 --> 00:05:35,069 with my somatic therapist, 150 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:36,910 and it involved visualizing 151 00:05:37,290 --> 00:05:39,850 my inner child. And I remember just sitting 152 00:05:39,850 --> 00:05:40,830 on a bench. 153 00:05:41,974 --> 00:05:44,154 I was me, and I remember seeing 154 00:05:44,534 --> 00:05:46,555 my boy, and he was, like, six. 155 00:05:47,334 --> 00:05:47,834 And 156 00:05:48,935 --> 00:05:51,754 I wanted nothing to do with him. 157 00:05:52,534 --> 00:05:53,034 I 158 00:05:53,990 --> 00:05:56,889 felt so disconnected and almost disgusted 159 00:05:57,830 --> 00:05:58,649 by this 160 00:05:59,509 --> 00:06:00,410 little boy 161 00:06:00,790 --> 00:06:01,610 that was me, 162 00:06:02,389 --> 00:06:04,170 but I was just so 163 00:06:05,029 --> 00:06:05,529 absolutely 164 00:06:06,995 --> 00:06:08,774 disgusted by this kid. 165 00:06:09,555 --> 00:06:11,555 I remember years ago when I was doing 166 00:06:11,555 --> 00:06:14,035 some kind of therapy, I had asked that 167 00:06:14,035 --> 00:06:14,535 practitioner, 168 00:06:15,235 --> 00:06:17,475 what would happen if you killed your inner 169 00:06:17,475 --> 00:06:17,975 child? 170 00:06:18,899 --> 00:06:20,600 Because I knew he was 171 00:06:20,980 --> 00:06:23,000 directing so many of my patterns, 172 00:06:23,540 --> 00:06:25,560 but I didn't know how to resolve that. 173 00:06:25,699 --> 00:06:27,399 And so when I was 174 00:06:27,779 --> 00:06:29,779 sort of trying to look for the next 175 00:06:29,779 --> 00:06:32,019 best thing, you know, it's always searching for 176 00:06:32,019 --> 00:06:35,495 a new way of resolving one's spiritual crises. 177 00:06:35,955 --> 00:06:37,875 I happened upon Hoffman, and I looked, I 178 00:06:37,875 --> 00:06:39,875 was like, I had never heard of this. 179 00:06:39,875 --> 00:06:41,795 What is this? What is the Hoffman process? 180 00:06:41,795 --> 00:06:43,894 And so I started looking it up. 181 00:06:44,355 --> 00:06:46,115 And fairly quickly, I was like, I need 182 00:06:46,115 --> 00:06:47,475 to do this. I need to do this 183 00:06:47,475 --> 00:06:47,975 yesterday. 184 00:06:48,459 --> 00:06:50,379 It give me hope, and so I delved 185 00:06:50,379 --> 00:06:52,800 into it. You know, the wait list is, 186 00:06:52,860 --> 00:06:55,180 like, I think, six to seven months, and 187 00:06:55,180 --> 00:06:57,019 I was willing to go to Canada. I 188 00:06:57,019 --> 00:06:59,099 was like, I don't care. I had some 189 00:06:59,099 --> 00:07:01,339 time set aside maybe for a trip or 190 00:07:01,339 --> 00:07:03,845 something at the beginning of the year. So 191 00:07:03,904 --> 00:07:05,904 at least I wasn't booked then, and so 192 00:07:05,904 --> 00:07:07,205 it was a perfect opportunity. 193 00:07:07,904 --> 00:07:09,264 I happened to be called a couple of 194 00:07:09,264 --> 00:07:12,245 weeks before, the session started, and I was 195 00:07:12,545 --> 00:07:14,404 asked if I wanted to go to Petaluma 196 00:07:14,464 --> 00:07:15,779 instead. And since I live in California, I 197 00:07:17,379 --> 00:07:18,968 said, of course, you know, I'd rather not 198 00:07:18,968 --> 00:07:20,899 deal with Calgary weather. So that's kinda what 199 00:07:20,899 --> 00:07:22,819 led me to Hoffman, but I was in 200 00:07:22,819 --> 00:07:24,040 a deep state of 201 00:07:24,419 --> 00:07:24,919 constant, 202 00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:25,800 constant 203 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:27,193 disconnectedness and anxiety. It's like I felt the 204 00:07:27,193 --> 00:07:28,040 flight response and the freeze response, 205 00:07:29,754 --> 00:07:32,235 It's like I felt the flight response and 206 00:07:32,235 --> 00:07:35,275 the freeze response were just so daily and 207 00:07:35,275 --> 00:07:37,855 intense. And, you know, during my day, 208 00:07:38,475 --> 00:07:39,675 you know, I don't think most of my 209 00:07:39,675 --> 00:07:42,120 patients or my staff could tell. In health 210 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,100 care, we 211 00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:45,180 have to put on this mask 212 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:46,300 because 213 00:07:46,759 --> 00:07:49,339 the people that we're seeing are hurting or 214 00:07:49,479 --> 00:07:52,360 afraid or scared, and we have to take 215 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,279 it upon ourselves to be strong for them. 216 00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:55,959 They find out the person taking care of 217 00:07:55,959 --> 00:07:58,504 them was falling apart. The assumption is, oh 218 00:07:58,504 --> 00:08:00,425 my god. I can't do my job. But 219 00:08:00,425 --> 00:08:02,584 it was so exhausting to have to pretend 220 00:08:02,584 --> 00:08:05,144 all the time. It's an interesting thing you're 221 00:08:05,144 --> 00:08:05,644 describing, 222 00:08:06,345 --> 00:08:07,165 being comfortable 223 00:08:07,625 --> 00:08:08,524 as an intellectual 224 00:08:09,144 --> 00:08:10,524 and find the solution. 225 00:08:11,660 --> 00:08:14,959 And you're describing a disconnect from your emotional 226 00:08:15,180 --> 00:08:16,720 aspect, your emotional child, 227 00:08:17,259 --> 00:08:18,080 and even 228 00:08:18,699 --> 00:08:20,779 sounds like a disconnect from body which led 229 00:08:20,779 --> 00:08:21,680 you to somatic 230 00:08:21,980 --> 00:08:25,279 therapy, and yet I can walk through my 231 00:08:25,420 --> 00:08:25,920 career 232 00:08:27,064 --> 00:08:29,464 and function as an intellect and no one 233 00:08:29,464 --> 00:08:32,285 knows. It's actually like a reflex. 234 00:08:32,664 --> 00:08:33,884 It's almost easier. 235 00:08:34,504 --> 00:08:36,524 It's easier to be distracted 236 00:08:36,904 --> 00:08:37,404 by 237 00:08:38,024 --> 00:08:40,284 the ups and downs of a busy practice 238 00:08:41,225 --> 00:08:41,725 and 239 00:08:42,370 --> 00:08:44,610 almost not have to think or think in 240 00:08:44,610 --> 00:08:46,529 a different way, you know, think in an 241 00:08:46,529 --> 00:08:49,830 intellectual way rather than sort of sit there 242 00:08:49,889 --> 00:08:50,389 with 243 00:08:51,090 --> 00:08:53,170 all the discomfort and the confusion and the 244 00:08:53,170 --> 00:08:55,190 hurt and the anxiety and the depression. 245 00:08:55,809 --> 00:08:57,750 Yeah. It just this maelstrom. 246 00:08:58,235 --> 00:09:00,815 And you mentioned the flight and freeze 247 00:09:01,355 --> 00:09:03,754 experience within you. Can you tell us more 248 00:09:03,754 --> 00:09:04,415 about that? 249 00:09:04,795 --> 00:09:06,875 You know, for my entire life, I've always 250 00:09:06,875 --> 00:09:09,435 been seeking, like, okay. Why am I this 251 00:09:09,435 --> 00:09:11,295 way? Why do I respond 252 00:09:12,039 --> 00:09:14,919 by distracting myself? Why do I feel like 253 00:09:14,919 --> 00:09:17,259 I can't connect with people? Why 254 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,279 do I not like or love myself? I 255 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:22,360 was always exploring this ever since I was 256 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:22,860 young, 257 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:23,740 and 258 00:09:24,455 --> 00:09:25,514 I had gotten 259 00:09:25,894 --> 00:09:28,154 into learning more about trauma responses 260 00:09:29,095 --> 00:09:31,495 and kind of investigating that a little bit 261 00:09:31,495 --> 00:09:33,495 more and learning about that. And it became 262 00:09:33,495 --> 00:09:35,754 pretty clear that my response was freeze, 263 00:09:36,299 --> 00:09:38,700 flight or freeze or fawn. You know, I'm 264 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:40,399 not a fighting kinda person. 265 00:09:41,019 --> 00:09:42,559 So that would be my 266 00:09:42,940 --> 00:09:43,919 coping strategy. 267 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:46,220 As now I realize that as a young 268 00:09:46,220 --> 00:09:46,720 boy, 269 00:09:47,580 --> 00:09:48,320 I would 270 00:09:48,785 --> 00:09:49,684 distract myself 271 00:09:50,625 --> 00:09:51,125 or 272 00:09:51,504 --> 00:09:54,085 I would to be able to cope with 273 00:09:54,144 --> 00:09:56,305 not having parents there or having parents that 274 00:09:56,305 --> 00:09:58,965 were disconnected from me, I would 275 00:09:59,425 --> 00:10:01,745 ingratiate myself to them so that they know, 276 00:10:01,745 --> 00:10:03,764 like, I'm proving myself to them 277 00:10:04,110 --> 00:10:05,250 that I am lovable 278 00:10:06,029 --> 00:10:08,289 because inherently, I didn't feel lovable. 279 00:10:08,669 --> 00:10:10,830 And so these things would just kinda continue 280 00:10:10,830 --> 00:10:13,870 on and and manifest in adulthood. And I 281 00:10:13,870 --> 00:10:15,230 knew that and I could see that. I 282 00:10:15,230 --> 00:10:17,389 just didn't know how to kinda get beyond 283 00:10:17,389 --> 00:10:19,985 it. And being so much a a person 284 00:10:19,985 --> 00:10:22,085 that lives in their mind and their intellect 285 00:10:22,465 --> 00:10:25,585 and felt like reading books or listening to 286 00:10:25,585 --> 00:10:26,804 books or podcasts 287 00:10:27,105 --> 00:10:30,144 or going to therapy sessions once a week 288 00:10:30,144 --> 00:10:33,105 would help me slowly break out of this 289 00:10:33,105 --> 00:10:33,605 quagmire. 290 00:10:34,529 --> 00:10:36,470 I realized I just needed something 291 00:10:37,169 --> 00:10:37,669 really 292 00:10:38,049 --> 00:10:38,549 experiential 293 00:10:40,529 --> 00:10:41,269 and safe 294 00:10:41,649 --> 00:10:42,709 and intensive 295 00:10:43,490 --> 00:10:43,990 and 296 00:10:44,929 --> 00:10:46,709 had the capacity to reset. 297 00:10:47,174 --> 00:10:47,914 Now I had 298 00:10:48,774 --> 00:10:51,434 done retreats before. Like, there are these meditation 299 00:10:51,495 --> 00:10:55,014 retreats, Vipassana retreats, where you're silent for ten 300 00:10:55,014 --> 00:10:57,274 days and you meditate eight hours a day. 301 00:10:57,654 --> 00:10:59,669 I love those. And the Cloud nine kind 302 00:10:59,669 --> 00:11:01,669 of feeling lasted for a couple of weeks, 303 00:11:01,669 --> 00:11:03,669 but then life just intruded in and my 304 00:11:03,669 --> 00:11:05,990 patterns just sort of intruded in. But there 305 00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:08,169 was something about Hoffman 306 00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:12,009 and the experiential nature of it to 307 00:11:12,835 --> 00:11:15,894 kind of get beyond that, really start feeling 308 00:11:16,034 --> 00:11:18,195 because I had lost the ability to tell 309 00:11:18,195 --> 00:11:19,475 you what I felt. If you were to 310 00:11:19,475 --> 00:11:21,654 ask me how do I feel, my response 311 00:11:21,715 --> 00:11:22,534 was fine, 312 00:11:22,835 --> 00:11:26,034 and I literally couldn't tell you anything else. 313 00:11:26,034 --> 00:11:27,335 It's like, I'm fine, 314 00:11:27,819 --> 00:11:29,600 but I couldn't tell you I'm sad, 315 00:11:30,059 --> 00:11:31,120 that I'm frustrated, 316 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:32,559 that I'm angry. 317 00:11:33,259 --> 00:11:36,240 The capacity to feel had just been lost. 318 00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:38,879 Hoffman gave that back to me. 319 00:11:39,179 --> 00:11:40,639 It's an interesting thing. 320 00:11:40,940 --> 00:11:42,379 I hear a lot of people say I'm 321 00:11:42,379 --> 00:11:44,164 fine. I'm good. I'm okay. 322 00:11:44,784 --> 00:11:47,605 It's actually code for I'm really not okay. 323 00:11:48,065 --> 00:11:49,764 For you, it was I'm fine. 324 00:11:50,225 --> 00:11:51,044 I'm numb. 325 00:11:51,424 --> 00:11:53,845 That's what it means. There was also 326 00:11:54,705 --> 00:11:55,845 a lot of shame 327 00:11:56,779 --> 00:11:59,199 with that too because here I am, 328 00:11:59,579 --> 00:12:01,759 a physician. I'm supposed to be 329 00:12:02,059 --> 00:12:04,620 on top of things. I'm supposed to know 330 00:12:04,620 --> 00:12:06,779 myself, know my patients, be able to take 331 00:12:06,779 --> 00:12:09,259 care of whatever comes up with them. Same 332 00:12:09,259 --> 00:12:11,039 thing with my staff and my colleagues. 333 00:12:11,924 --> 00:12:12,424 And 334 00:12:13,445 --> 00:12:14,504 I felt 335 00:12:15,205 --> 00:12:15,705 so 336 00:12:16,085 --> 00:12:18,725 not prepared or able to do that, yet 337 00:12:18,725 --> 00:12:21,524 I had to do that. I constantly felt 338 00:12:21,524 --> 00:12:23,384 like a flawed, broken person. 339 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:26,820 Could you take us to a moment in 340 00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:27,559 your process 341 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:31,220 where you encountered your child and describe that 342 00:12:31,220 --> 00:12:31,720 experience? 343 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:34,899 You know, I remember one part of the 344 00:12:34,899 --> 00:12:36,040 process where 345 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,200 I wanted to share something. 346 00:12:39,304 --> 00:12:42,524 It was my boy coming out saying, hey. 347 00:12:43,065 --> 00:12:45,964 I'm excited to share something to the group. 348 00:12:46,664 --> 00:12:48,904 And I wanted to share, and I felt 349 00:12:48,904 --> 00:12:50,424 so excited to share. I felt like a 350 00:12:50,424 --> 00:12:51,164 little boy. 351 00:12:51,544 --> 00:12:52,924 And I was told, 352 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,040 not right now. Kind of let's we need 353 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:57,960 to kind of keep moving along, and maybe 354 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,120 we'll get back to you. And it never 355 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,279 got back to me, and so I didn't 356 00:13:02,279 --> 00:13:04,220 have that chance to share. 357 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,860 And it broke me, 358 00:13:07,294 --> 00:13:09,375 That boy and I was that boy at 359 00:13:09,375 --> 00:13:12,254 that time. I wasn't my adult self. I 360 00:13:12,254 --> 00:13:15,235 was this boy, and I was so sad 361 00:13:16,095 --> 00:13:18,595 and hurt and angry 362 00:13:19,294 --> 00:13:19,794 and 363 00:13:20,495 --> 00:13:20,995 disappointed, 364 00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:23,929 feeling kind of 365 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:25,690 this unwantedness 366 00:13:26,789 --> 00:13:28,250 and not being loved. 367 00:13:29,909 --> 00:13:31,289 What it was was 368 00:13:31,669 --> 00:13:33,210 that shell of me 369 00:13:34,454 --> 00:13:36,475 that was keeping those feelings 370 00:13:36,934 --> 00:13:38,875 from coming out breaking. 371 00:13:40,054 --> 00:13:42,855 And I remember talking to Joe, who was 372 00:13:42,855 --> 00:13:44,694 my coach, about that and about how to 373 00:13:44,694 --> 00:13:46,154 kind of process this. 374 00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:48,629 I was crying, and I felt 375 00:13:49,089 --> 00:13:50,309 just absolutely 376 00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:52,870 torn and ashamed 377 00:13:53,889 --> 00:13:54,389 and 378 00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:55,269 small, 379 00:13:56,129 --> 00:13:58,690 but it was what needed to happen for 380 00:13:58,690 --> 00:14:01,495 me to recognize that this was all the 381 00:14:01,495 --> 00:14:03,674 pain and suffering my boy was having 382 00:14:04,054 --> 00:14:05,975 and to hold it with kind of love 383 00:14:05,975 --> 00:14:08,454 and tenderness and to acknowledge it and to 384 00:14:08,454 --> 00:14:09,355 say it's okay, 385 00:14:10,375 --> 00:14:12,214 and for other people to say it's okay, 386 00:14:12,214 --> 00:14:13,814 and for me to be honest with it, 387 00:14:13,814 --> 00:14:14,554 and for 388 00:14:14,929 --> 00:14:16,870 me to, as a boy, 389 00:14:17,490 --> 00:14:19,110 be open to being hurt. 390 00:14:20,289 --> 00:14:22,690 Having the courage to say, but what about 391 00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:24,769 me? Oh, you don't have time for me. 392 00:14:24,769 --> 00:14:27,649 But still coming out rather than hiding in 393 00:14:27,649 --> 00:14:29,490 the shadows and saying nobody wants to hear 394 00:14:29,490 --> 00:14:30,075 from me. 395 00:14:30,554 --> 00:14:33,434 Actually coming out and saying, hey. I want 396 00:14:33,434 --> 00:14:34,254 to be heard. 397 00:14:34,955 --> 00:14:36,415 And when that didn't happen, 398 00:14:36,955 --> 00:14:38,254 I survived it. 399 00:14:39,355 --> 00:14:41,294 The feelings hurt, and 400 00:14:41,674 --> 00:14:44,315 I survived, and I was fine. And the 401 00:14:44,315 --> 00:14:45,615 boy was fine, 402 00:14:46,289 --> 00:14:47,029 and he was 403 00:14:47,889 --> 00:14:48,470 still lovable, 404 00:14:49,490 --> 00:14:52,789 and he was still the sweet, innocent, precious 405 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:53,350 thing. 406 00:14:54,450 --> 00:14:56,769 That was one of many experiences, but one 407 00:14:56,769 --> 00:14:57,669 of those where 408 00:14:58,049 --> 00:15:00,709 I realized how resilient this boy 409 00:15:01,475 --> 00:15:03,975 was and has been and had to be, 410 00:15:04,995 --> 00:15:07,095 it allowed me to be able to 411 00:15:07,634 --> 00:15:10,355 visualize and then hold this boy and say, 412 00:15:10,355 --> 00:15:11,334 I got you. 413 00:15:12,355 --> 00:15:13,414 I got you. 414 00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:16,820 And I do that now. 415 00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:19,860 I catch myself, and I feel 416 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,340 ashamed, or I feel unworthy, 417 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,899 or I feel lost or confused. 418 00:15:25,679 --> 00:15:26,580 I will go 419 00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:28,100 to the bathroom 420 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:29,460 at work 421 00:15:30,125 --> 00:15:34,125 and lock the door and just for, like, 422 00:15:34,125 --> 00:15:36,445 thirty seconds put my hands on my chest 423 00:15:36,445 --> 00:15:38,544 saying, sweetie, I got you. 424 00:15:39,804 --> 00:15:42,284 And I would see myself not ignoring that 425 00:15:42,284 --> 00:15:43,424 boy on the bench, 426 00:15:43,940 --> 00:15:46,580 not running away from him, not hating him, 427 00:15:46,580 --> 00:15:50,100 not despising him, but just grabbing him and 428 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:52,440 hugging him saying, sweetie, I got you. 429 00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:53,879 And I do. 430 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:57,644 And my spirit has him, And then I 431 00:15:57,644 --> 00:15:59,504 forget, and then I do it again. 432 00:15:59,884 --> 00:16:02,764 And it's not a permanent process, but that 433 00:16:02,764 --> 00:16:05,424 is there. That resource is there 434 00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:08,605 where I can be gentle and kind to 435 00:16:08,605 --> 00:16:09,345 my boy. 436 00:16:10,125 --> 00:16:11,745 And it's allowed me 437 00:16:12,529 --> 00:16:14,790 to be gentle and kind 438 00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:18,370 with my real boy, my son, who's gonna 439 00:16:18,370 --> 00:16:19,509 be 10 this month. 440 00:16:21,009 --> 00:16:23,490 Because the same struggles that I had with 441 00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:25,490 not being able to connect to my own 442 00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:28,735 little boy, I had problems connecting with him. 443 00:16:29,754 --> 00:16:31,434 There were times where I knew that I 444 00:16:31,434 --> 00:16:32,875 was gonna have to take care of him, 445 00:16:32,875 --> 00:16:34,714 like my wife was busy or whatever and 446 00:16:34,714 --> 00:16:35,534 it was me, 447 00:16:36,475 --> 00:16:37,454 that I 448 00:16:38,154 --> 00:16:40,475 wanted to run away. I did not want 449 00:16:40,475 --> 00:16:42,440 to hang out with him because I did 450 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,360 not know how to connect or relate with 451 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:44,860 him. 452 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:46,139 It was 453 00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:49,339 my son was being the surrogate 454 00:16:49,879 --> 00:16:51,799 of my own child. Right? And I was 455 00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:53,740 kind of behaving the same way to both, 456 00:16:53,884 --> 00:16:56,304 and it was very exhausting and uncomfortable. 457 00:16:57,164 --> 00:16:57,825 I would 458 00:16:58,284 --> 00:17:00,865 have trouble hugging him or 459 00:17:01,404 --> 00:17:04,204 being sweet with him, and I knew he 460 00:17:04,204 --> 00:17:05,025 felt that. 461 00:17:05,404 --> 00:17:07,724 And he was, I think, feeling the same 462 00:17:07,724 --> 00:17:08,023 rejection that I felt during episodes when I 463 00:17:08,023 --> 00:17:08,785 was young, you know, with my dad, with 464 00:17:09,164 --> 00:17:09,664 my 465 00:17:14,569 --> 00:17:15,389 stepmother. And those are things 466 00:17:15,929 --> 00:17:16,429 we 467 00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:19,849 delve through in Hoffman quite a bit. But 468 00:17:19,849 --> 00:17:20,669 after Hoffman, 469 00:17:21,690 --> 00:17:22,750 it is now 470 00:17:23,134 --> 00:17:25,454 such a joy. I grab him, and I 471 00:17:25,454 --> 00:17:28,414 kiss him, and I hold him saying, sweetie, 472 00:17:28,414 --> 00:17:29,315 I love you. 473 00:17:30,014 --> 00:17:31,234 We're different together. 474 00:17:31,774 --> 00:17:33,534 And my wife has seen it. He's seen 475 00:17:33,534 --> 00:17:35,534 it saying, papa, I love you. When are 476 00:17:35,534 --> 00:17:36,595 you coming home? 477 00:17:37,049 --> 00:17:39,630 He hadn't done that in the longest time. 478 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:41,150 But now he's like, 479 00:17:41,529 --> 00:17:43,529 hey, papa. When are you coming home? Or, 480 00:17:43,529 --> 00:17:46,490 like, hey. Let's hang out together. And, yes, 481 00:17:46,490 --> 00:17:47,930 sweetie. I wanna hang out with you. I 482 00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:49,070 wanna be with you. 483 00:17:49,615 --> 00:17:51,075 That has been one of the 484 00:17:51,375 --> 00:17:52,434 biggest transformations 485 00:17:53,615 --> 00:17:55,534 that Hoffman has given me. One of the 486 00:17:55,534 --> 00:17:56,034 gifts 487 00:17:56,815 --> 00:17:59,234 is that I can connect with him 488 00:17:59,774 --> 00:18:01,375 in that way, and I'm like, damn. I 489 00:18:01,375 --> 00:18:03,234 wish I would have done Hoffman earlier. 490 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:05,660 Because he's now gonna have to go to 491 00:18:05,660 --> 00:18:07,500 Hoffman to deal with the crap that he's 492 00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:09,900 had for me, which is which I get. 493 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:10,299 But, 494 00:18:11,259 --> 00:18:12,160 the whole process 495 00:18:12,539 --> 00:18:14,720 wound up being so experiential 496 00:18:15,019 --> 00:18:17,359 and personal to feel those feelings 497 00:18:18,164 --> 00:18:20,825 with my boy so that I could actually 498 00:18:20,965 --> 00:18:23,785 feel what it's like to love your son 499 00:18:24,244 --> 00:18:26,644 in a way that's so connected and loving. 500 00:18:26,644 --> 00:18:28,805 Not that he doesn't annoy me sometimes, and 501 00:18:28,805 --> 00:18:30,359 I don't annoy him. You know, it's not 502 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,000 like everything's cloud nine. But the sweetness and 503 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,819 gentleness with I have with him, the fun 504 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,519 that comes out, the ability to play with 505 00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:41,160 him, like, I really wasn't able to access 506 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,019 is now easier to access. 507 00:18:43,705 --> 00:18:44,445 You're describing 508 00:18:44,984 --> 00:18:45,484 something 509 00:18:45,945 --> 00:18:46,684 in mirroring. 510 00:18:47,545 --> 00:18:49,805 I think that's a really common experience 511 00:18:50,184 --> 00:18:53,705 for parents that prevents connection. It's like if 512 00:18:53,705 --> 00:18:56,984 I meet you, my little one, in full 513 00:18:56,984 --> 00:18:57,725 on joy, 514 00:18:58,330 --> 00:19:00,570 I have to acknowledge where I've not allowed 515 00:19:00,570 --> 00:19:01,950 that in me. 516 00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:03,789 I have to confront 517 00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:05,070 how uncomfortable 518 00:19:05,529 --> 00:19:07,549 I am feeling my 519 00:19:07,850 --> 00:19:08,350 own 520 00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:09,230 emotions. 521 00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:12,269 Yeah. Totally. And on top of that, 522 00:19:12,765 --> 00:19:13,505 my boy 523 00:19:14,045 --> 00:19:14,545 was 524 00:19:14,924 --> 00:19:16,945 to my son, he was like, how dare 525 00:19:17,085 --> 00:19:17,984 you get 526 00:19:18,285 --> 00:19:19,345 all the love 527 00:19:19,805 --> 00:19:20,705 and the connection 528 00:19:21,085 --> 00:19:23,345 and the sweetness and the time 529 00:19:23,965 --> 00:19:26,400 because I didn't get that. If I didn't 530 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,080 get it, you should be able to get 531 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,360 it. So he was jealous too. But holding 532 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,539 all that stuff, you know, I mean, noticing 533 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,080 and not sort of approaching it with like, 534 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:36,580 god. 535 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,500 How freaking 536 00:19:39,025 --> 00:19:42,125 stupid and shameful. But it's just like, ah, 537 00:19:42,305 --> 00:19:44,244 man, that must hurt. That hurts 538 00:19:44,545 --> 00:19:45,285 a lot. 539 00:19:45,825 --> 00:19:47,744 The hurt is another piece I wanna come 540 00:19:47,744 --> 00:19:50,964 back to because you described this moment of 541 00:19:51,184 --> 00:19:52,805 reconnecting with your 542 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,460 child within you, 543 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,920 it does give me the sense of, like, 544 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,380 emotions are bursting out and we contain. 545 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,119 Yeah. Totally. I just had this subjective sense 546 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,600 that I told my somatic therapist before I 547 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,954 did Hoffman saying, you know what? I feel 548 00:20:09,095 --> 00:20:10,875 my spirit is like a coconut. 549 00:20:11,494 --> 00:20:13,835 It is so and you know how hard, 550 00:20:13,894 --> 00:20:15,734 you know, just coconuts from the tree are 551 00:20:15,734 --> 00:20:17,994 to open. Man, those things are, like, impossible. 552 00:20:18,294 --> 00:20:20,794 I was like, nothing is cracking that shell. 553 00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:24,490 And it was containing all these emotions and 554 00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:25,549 feelings and, 555 00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:28,409 like, how many Kleenex boxes I went through. 556 00:20:28,409 --> 00:20:29,789 Like, I hadn't really 557 00:20:30,569 --> 00:20:34,244 cried and emoted or felt such joy and 558 00:20:34,244 --> 00:20:36,805 just the ups and downs in decades. Like, 559 00:20:36,805 --> 00:20:38,904 I don't remember ever feeling that 560 00:20:39,445 --> 00:20:41,924 as intensely as I did with Hopin. It 561 00:20:41,924 --> 00:20:43,605 was like all this stuff just needed to 562 00:20:43,605 --> 00:20:44,744 really be experienced 563 00:20:45,365 --> 00:20:48,025 because it was it was so forgotten almost. 564 00:20:48,609 --> 00:20:50,549 Do you think there's a connection 565 00:20:51,809 --> 00:20:55,349 between holding emotions in and a physical manifestation 566 00:20:55,649 --> 00:20:56,309 of that? 567 00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:57,750 Thousand percent. 568 00:20:58,210 --> 00:20:59,750 If I reflect back 569 00:21:00,130 --> 00:21:00,630 on 570 00:21:01,089 --> 00:21:02,389 specific patients 571 00:21:03,464 --> 00:21:03,964 who 572 00:21:04,664 --> 00:21:05,644 are so 573 00:21:06,184 --> 00:21:07,884 ill, I mean, hospitalized 574 00:21:08,664 --> 00:21:09,565 every week 575 00:21:10,025 --> 00:21:10,525 because 576 00:21:11,224 --> 00:21:13,644 something in their body has just gone terribly 577 00:21:13,865 --> 00:21:14,365 wrong, 578 00:21:15,329 --> 00:21:18,130 pretty much all of those patients have had 579 00:21:18,130 --> 00:21:20,630 some sort of horrendous trauma as a child. 580 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:21,990 Physical, 581 00:21:22,929 --> 00:21:24,789 sexual abuse, neglect, 582 00:21:25,809 --> 00:21:27,429 they've all had that 583 00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:29,669 in a really bad severe way. 584 00:21:30,045 --> 00:21:30,865 That trauma 585 00:21:31,485 --> 00:21:31,985 response 586 00:21:33,085 --> 00:21:36,605 manifests especially in the GI tract. And how 587 00:21:36,605 --> 00:21:37,184 it manifests 588 00:21:37,485 --> 00:21:39,265 with what I see 589 00:21:39,805 --> 00:21:40,305 is 590 00:21:40,765 --> 00:21:42,945 somebody comes in and they are convinced 591 00:21:43,549 --> 00:21:46,589 they have a horrendous bleeding ulcer or a 592 00:21:46,589 --> 00:21:47,490 stomach cancer 593 00:21:47,869 --> 00:21:49,329 because it hurts 594 00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:51,309 so bad, like, in the pit of their 595 00:21:51,309 --> 00:21:51,809 stomach. 596 00:21:52,109 --> 00:21:53,950 They're crying and they're it's like and it 597 00:21:53,950 --> 00:21:54,690 was like, 598 00:21:55,325 --> 00:21:58,045 so this started at x time. Right? Maybe 599 00:21:58,045 --> 00:21:59,664 it started three weeks ago. 600 00:22:00,125 --> 00:22:02,525 Tell me what happened in your life three 601 00:22:02,525 --> 00:22:03,345 weeks ago. 602 00:22:03,964 --> 00:22:05,025 My mom died, 603 00:22:05,484 --> 00:22:05,984 or 604 00:22:06,525 --> 00:22:07,984 it was my mom's funeral, 605 00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:08,910 or 606 00:22:09,369 --> 00:22:12,089 that's when my child left for college and 607 00:22:12,089 --> 00:22:13,630 I didn't have my kids at home, 608 00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:14,670 or 609 00:22:15,130 --> 00:22:18,009 something like that. Not always, but very, very 610 00:22:18,009 --> 00:22:20,490 often, something like that. So we do our 611 00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:22,329 due diligence. Right? I mean, you know, in 612 00:22:22,329 --> 00:22:23,309 Western medicine, 613 00:22:24,224 --> 00:22:25,845 there are a lot of limitations. 614 00:22:27,105 --> 00:22:28,884 The first thing is 615 00:22:29,664 --> 00:22:31,204 make sure you're not dying. 616 00:22:31,505 --> 00:22:33,664 Make sure you don't have something horrendous like 617 00:22:33,664 --> 00:22:35,845 a horrendous bleed, horrendous infection, 618 00:22:36,224 --> 00:22:36,884 a cancer. 619 00:22:37,679 --> 00:22:38,980 And then after that, 620 00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:41,200 we may or may not be able to 621 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,200 do anything. A test may or may not 622 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,819 be able to find what's going. 623 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,480 Invariably, these people who are having these symptoms, 624 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,079 I do a scope on them. I take 625 00:22:50,079 --> 00:22:52,424 a look. We do all these tests. The 626 00:22:52,424 --> 00:22:53,565 scope looks pristine. 627 00:22:54,105 --> 00:22:55,484 The labs look pristine. 628 00:22:56,184 --> 00:22:59,065 Everything looked pristine. So at that point, I, 629 00:22:59,065 --> 00:23:00,125 as a clinician, 630 00:23:00,424 --> 00:23:02,585 sort of have a choice on how do 631 00:23:02,585 --> 00:23:04,349 I approach this. And 632 00:23:04,669 --> 00:23:07,549 my approach has now been that look. Things 633 00:23:07,549 --> 00:23:09,549 look normal, which is good news, but also 634 00:23:09,549 --> 00:23:12,349 bad news because I don't have a lesion. 635 00:23:12,349 --> 00:23:14,349 I don't have a thing to explain this. 636 00:23:14,349 --> 00:23:14,849 But 637 00:23:15,150 --> 00:23:16,210 I will tell you 638 00:23:16,684 --> 00:23:18,304 what you're having is real, 639 00:23:19,164 --> 00:23:20,224 and what you're 640 00:23:20,605 --> 00:23:21,105 having 641 00:23:22,204 --> 00:23:24,045 may not be able to be detected by 642 00:23:24,045 --> 00:23:25,505 the tools that we have. 643 00:23:26,204 --> 00:23:28,730 But I see it all the time, And 644 00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:30,890 it doesn't mean you're faking it. It doesn't 645 00:23:30,890 --> 00:23:33,690 mean you're making this stuff up. It's very 646 00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:35,869 possible that these things have manifested 647 00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:38,970 in this way in your body. Some people 648 00:23:38,970 --> 00:23:40,190 get horrendous headaches. 649 00:23:40,795 --> 00:23:43,434 You know, some people get neurological symptoms and 650 00:23:43,434 --> 00:23:44,654 they can't walk. 651 00:23:45,595 --> 00:23:47,855 And in your case, you being this hypothetical 652 00:23:47,994 --> 00:23:50,335 patient, it's this horrendous pain. 653 00:23:50,714 --> 00:23:52,474 And then we work on ways to try 654 00:23:52,474 --> 00:23:54,315 to at least medically deal with it. And 655 00:23:54,315 --> 00:23:56,880 then if they're able to get some maybe 656 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,880 mental health help and, you know, kinda refer 657 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,460 there. But now I've also started incorporating 658 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:04,000 kind of some of Hoffman's stuff without saying 659 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:04,740 it's Hoffman 660 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:05,700 about 661 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:07,539 telling yourself just, 662 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,380 hey. I got you. 663 00:24:09,894 --> 00:24:12,154 This one patient kinda comes to mind where 664 00:24:12,535 --> 00:24:14,934 he has been exploring a lot of trauma 665 00:24:14,934 --> 00:24:17,255 that he had during his work before he 666 00:24:17,255 --> 00:24:17,755 retired 667 00:24:18,295 --> 00:24:20,375 and all the GI symptoms that are coming 668 00:24:20,375 --> 00:24:22,054 up at that. And then when I did 669 00:24:22,054 --> 00:24:24,134 that exercise with their hands on your heart 670 00:24:24,134 --> 00:24:26,450 and just taking a deep breath and 671 00:24:26,910 --> 00:24:29,230 just giving a hug to that little boy 672 00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:31,309 that's in them, they're like, oh my god. 673 00:24:31,309 --> 00:24:33,089 I just feel so much better. 674 00:24:33,789 --> 00:24:35,950 Not all these people, but a fair number 675 00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:38,804 of them will come back to me couple 676 00:24:38,804 --> 00:24:41,524 weeks, couple months later as time has gone 677 00:24:41,524 --> 00:24:42,024 on. 678 00:24:42,964 --> 00:24:44,724 And we're able to go down on the 679 00:24:44,724 --> 00:24:47,044 medications, and a lot of them wind up 680 00:24:47,044 --> 00:24:47,865 being fine. 681 00:24:48,325 --> 00:24:50,825 So to me, that aspect of medicine 682 00:24:51,569 --> 00:24:53,669 is the fertile exciting 683 00:24:54,289 --> 00:24:54,789 ground. 684 00:24:55,329 --> 00:24:57,890 Moving on in terms of what I do, 685 00:24:57,890 --> 00:25:00,549 that's definitely an exciting potential place. 686 00:25:01,089 --> 00:25:02,149 It's a new frontier. 687 00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:04,455 What an amazing 688 00:25:04,994 --> 00:25:07,555 way to practice self compassion. And for you 689 00:25:07,555 --> 00:25:09,095 to model that for your patients, 690 00:25:10,195 --> 00:25:11,174 it is a frontier. 691 00:25:11,875 --> 00:25:15,015 It's like the old becoming the new again. 692 00:25:15,555 --> 00:25:17,255 Thousands of years ago, whichever 693 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,380 the way shaman or 694 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,900 before invention of modern technology, 695 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,180 healers diagnosed and treated things through 696 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:28,720 sensing auras or energy. I mean, I know 697 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,880 it sounds kind of ruru, but there is 698 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,085 something there. And I think with the experiential 699 00:25:34,465 --> 00:25:35,525 nature of Hoffman, 700 00:25:36,224 --> 00:25:38,085 the Hoffman process allowed 701 00:25:39,345 --> 00:25:41,605 me to feel that light 702 00:25:42,384 --> 00:25:43,845 at times. And so 703 00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:46,779 I think it goes without saying that it's 704 00:25:46,779 --> 00:25:49,259 not like everything is right now. It's like 705 00:25:49,259 --> 00:25:51,900 things are roses and unicorns, you know. We've 706 00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:53,900 heard about the high that comes out after 707 00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:54,400 Hoffman. 708 00:25:54,859 --> 00:25:56,779 You know, after a couple of weeks, that 709 00:25:56,779 --> 00:25:57,599 high feeling 710 00:25:58,434 --> 00:26:00,434 wasn't there anymore. And it was hard to 711 00:26:00,434 --> 00:26:02,035 connect with, what am I feeling right? I 712 00:26:02,035 --> 00:26:03,555 was kinda going bad. I was kinda freaking 713 00:26:03,555 --> 00:26:04,674 out. I was like, oh my god. I'm 714 00:26:04,674 --> 00:26:06,375 going back to what it was like before. 715 00:26:06,674 --> 00:26:10,134 But the Hoffman community that has been created, 716 00:26:10,509 --> 00:26:11,329 the ways 717 00:26:11,630 --> 00:26:12,609 we can continue 718 00:26:12,910 --> 00:26:15,089 through Hoffman and engaging the process, 719 00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:18,369 the various kinds of refreshers that they have, 720 00:26:18,589 --> 00:26:20,750 they always bring me back and get me 721 00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:22,429 that feeling of that place when I was 722 00:26:22,429 --> 00:26:22,929 there. 723 00:26:23,494 --> 00:26:26,535 What's great to know and really experience is 724 00:26:26,535 --> 00:26:28,934 the fact that what was there and what 725 00:26:28,934 --> 00:26:30,075 I found at Hoffman 726 00:26:30,615 --> 00:26:32,455 has always been there and will always be 727 00:26:32,455 --> 00:26:35,255 there. What was there has always been there 728 00:26:35,255 --> 00:26:37,494 will always be there, and you have in 729 00:26:37,494 --> 00:26:39,150 your experience now, 730 00:26:39,950 --> 00:26:41,009 I've got you. 731 00:26:41,789 --> 00:26:43,970 I've got you. This is not a problem. 732 00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:45,089 This happens. 733 00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:48,190 I've got you. If you weren't afraid or, 734 00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:49,089 or wobbling, 735 00:26:49,630 --> 00:26:51,390 you wouldn't have the ability to come in 736 00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:52,529 and hold yourself 737 00:26:53,275 --> 00:26:54,335 Are doing that 738 00:26:54,795 --> 00:26:56,095 not only for yourself, 739 00:26:56,394 --> 00:26:58,954 for your son, for your patients in so 740 00:26:58,954 --> 00:26:59,775 many ways. 741 00:27:00,394 --> 00:27:03,694 What's also really great about that is 742 00:27:04,394 --> 00:27:06,015 I become my own resource. 743 00:27:06,750 --> 00:27:07,250 Because 744 00:27:07,549 --> 00:27:11,009 for my whole life, I've always looked externally 745 00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:12,130 for 746 00:27:12,670 --> 00:27:13,170 affirmation, 747 00:27:14,269 --> 00:27:14,769 for 748 00:27:15,549 --> 00:27:17,549 doing well in school. Oh, wow. You're so 749 00:27:17,549 --> 00:27:19,789 smart. Oh, you're you're gonna be a doctor. 750 00:27:19,789 --> 00:27:22,029 Oh, that's great. You know, patients, they love 751 00:27:22,029 --> 00:27:24,744 you. I'm looking for these dopamine hits. Right? 752 00:27:24,964 --> 00:27:27,605 But they're all external to feed this void. 753 00:27:27,605 --> 00:27:28,105 Right? 754 00:27:29,045 --> 00:27:29,865 But now, 755 00:27:30,325 --> 00:27:33,045 just with Hoffman, I'm starting to learn, like, 756 00:27:33,045 --> 00:27:35,704 what is it like to be the kindest, 757 00:27:36,964 --> 00:27:37,464 sweetest, 758 00:27:38,429 --> 00:27:39,329 most loving 759 00:27:39,869 --> 00:27:42,750 parent or guardian figure that you can to 760 00:27:42,750 --> 00:27:45,009 yourself. What does that look like? 761 00:27:45,389 --> 00:27:46,769 And be that to myself. 762 00:27:47,389 --> 00:27:49,069 It's a new place. I mean, obviously, I'm 763 00:27:49,069 --> 00:27:52,029 still learning and trying to engage that, but 764 00:27:52,029 --> 00:27:54,434 the tools that I learned at Hoffman and 765 00:27:54,434 --> 00:27:55,414 then practice, 766 00:27:55,954 --> 00:27:57,894 they allow me to come there easier. 767 00:27:58,275 --> 00:28:00,835 It reminds me of that definition of love 768 00:28:00,835 --> 00:28:01,734 that we share 769 00:28:02,115 --> 00:28:03,255 on the first day 770 00:28:03,875 --> 00:28:04,375 around 771 00:28:04,835 --> 00:28:07,759 love flowing first to myself and then to 772 00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:10,400 others in my life because so much of 773 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,640 what you've shared is around how you are 774 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,759 present to your son, your patients, but coming 775 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:16,579 from you 776 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,279 holding that little boy on the bench that 777 00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:20,740 you didn't wanna look at. 778 00:28:21,365 --> 00:28:23,605 And I'm so glad, and thank you for 779 00:28:23,605 --> 00:28:25,705 sharing your story with us. Thank you. 780 00:28:26,164 --> 00:28:27,924 God, it's been a pleasure, an honor, and 781 00:28:27,924 --> 00:28:28,505 a joy 782 00:28:29,125 --> 00:28:31,045 to see you and to talk to you 783 00:28:31,045 --> 00:28:32,505 again. And, yeah, 784 00:28:32,805 --> 00:28:35,460 it's been great. Wonderful. Thank you so much. 785 00:28:44,259 --> 00:28:46,339 Thank you for listening to our podcast. My 786 00:28:46,339 --> 00:28:48,740 name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and 787 00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:50,839 president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. 788 00:28:51,325 --> 00:28:52,705 And I'm Rassen Grassi, 789 00:28:53,325 --> 00:28:56,305 Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute 790 00:28:56,365 --> 00:28:56,865 Foundation. 791 00:28:57,404 --> 00:29:00,365 Our mission is to provide people greater access 792 00:29:00,365 --> 00:29:02,765 to the wisdom and power of love. In 793 00:29:02,765 --> 00:29:05,265 themselves, in each other, and in the world. 794 00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:09,279 To find out more, please go to hompkinsinstitute.org.