1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,040 Welcome back. My name is Sean Tierney from 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,219 Insights and Automation, and I wanna thank you 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,099 for tuning back in to this episode of 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,619 the automation podcast. 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,160 This week on the show, I have Ashley 6 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:13,619 Weckworth from ISA 7 00:00:14,544 --> 00:00:17,024 to talk about the OT cybersecurity summit they 8 00:00:17,024 --> 00:00:17,684 just held 9 00:00:17,984 --> 00:00:19,684 over in Europe in Brussels, 10 00:00:20,464 --> 00:00:22,324 and, very interesting conversation 11 00:00:22,704 --> 00:00:23,845 about OT cybersecurity. 12 00:00:24,785 --> 00:00:26,225 In addition to that, I had a couple 13 00:00:26,225 --> 00:00:26,725 announcements. 14 00:00:27,265 --> 00:00:29,320 First off, I wanted to let you know 15 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,700 that I have rebooted the automation news podcast, 16 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,320 and I renamed it Automation Tech Talk. And 17 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:36,460 I'm trying to do 18 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,359 a show at least three or four times 19 00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:39,420 a week at lunchtime. 20 00:00:40,039 --> 00:00:42,440 So if you're not already subscribed to the 21 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,414 old automation news podcast, 22 00:00:45,195 --> 00:00:46,395 you should be able to find it now 23 00:00:46,395 --> 00:00:49,354 as Automation Tech Talk. And, I'm just trying 24 00:00:49,354 --> 00:00:51,454 to spend ten to twenty minutes every lunch 25 00:00:51,594 --> 00:00:53,594 trying to share some knowledge that I have 26 00:00:53,594 --> 00:00:54,495 with the community. 27 00:00:55,435 --> 00:00:57,515 I also wanna mention that if you are 28 00:00:57,515 --> 00:00:58,175 a listener, 29 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:01,219 I'm running a special 20% off, 30 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,219 sale on my courses over at the automationschool.com. 31 00:01:05,439 --> 00:01:07,200 You will not see that there. It's only 32 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,340 for those listening. 33 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,719 And I know most of you are already 34 00:01:10,719 --> 00:01:12,799 automation experts, so you don't need to take 35 00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:13,459 these courses. 36 00:01:13,875 --> 00:01:15,474 So, really, this would be something you would 37 00:01:15,474 --> 00:01:17,075 pass on to the people who work for 38 00:01:17,075 --> 00:01:19,314 you or people you know who need to 39 00:01:19,314 --> 00:01:21,234 get up to speed on whether they need 40 00:01:21,234 --> 00:01:23,395 an introductory PLC course, so they need to 41 00:01:23,395 --> 00:01:24,775 get up to speed on ControlLogix, 42 00:01:25,075 --> 00:01:25,575 CompactLogix, 43 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,719 s seven twelve hundred and fifteen hundred, PanelView 44 00:01:28,719 --> 00:01:31,040 plus, USC, and so on. So in any 45 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:31,540 case, 46 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,799 to get that discount, that 20% off any 47 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:37,680 course or bundle of courses at $99 48 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:38,420 or more, 49 00:01:38,944 --> 00:01:40,064 All you have to do is send me 50 00:01:40,064 --> 00:01:41,745 the email address of the person who wants 51 00:01:41,745 --> 00:01:42,405 the discount. 52 00:01:42,704 --> 00:01:45,284 And, of course, we do do, group enrollment 53 00:01:45,424 --> 00:01:46,784 with, we've done it with a lot of 54 00:01:46,784 --> 00:01:49,025 Fortune 500 companies. Actually, I got a new 55 00:01:49,025 --> 00:01:50,790 order that just came in I gotta process. 56 00:01:51,030 --> 00:01:53,109 But, when we do a group enrollment, you 57 00:01:53,109 --> 00:01:55,450 you enroll, like, several people at your shop, 58 00:01:55,670 --> 00:01:57,430 and then I enroll them all at once, 59 00:01:57,430 --> 00:01:59,349 and you get a discount a quantity discount 60 00:01:59,349 --> 00:02:01,370 and all that. So in any case, 61 00:02:01,829 --> 00:02:03,510 if you have any questions about that, just 62 00:02:03,510 --> 00:02:05,355 go to the automationschool.com. 63 00:02:05,435 --> 00:02:07,435 All my contact info is at the very 64 00:02:07,435 --> 00:02:08,895 top, my voice mail, 65 00:02:09,194 --> 00:02:11,115 my email. You can even fill in a 66 00:02:11,115 --> 00:02:13,055 form there or book a meeting with me. 67 00:02:13,194 --> 00:02:14,794 But, please let me know if you know 68 00:02:14,794 --> 00:02:16,875 anybody who needs training. Even if you just 69 00:02:16,875 --> 00:02:18,074 want me to reach out to them to 70 00:02:18,074 --> 00:02:19,355 see if I can help them with their 71 00:02:19,355 --> 00:02:21,860 training needs, please let me know over there. 72 00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:23,139 And with that, let's go ahead and jump 73 00:02:23,139 --> 00:02:26,200 into this week's episode of the automation podcast. 74 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:28,420 And, Ashley, I know this is your first 75 00:02:28,420 --> 00:02:29,400 time on the show. 76 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:31,939 So before we jump into the summary of 77 00:02:31,939 --> 00:02:33,560 what what what this OT 78 00:02:33,974 --> 00:02:36,134 cybersecurity summit is and what it was all 79 00:02:36,134 --> 00:02:37,655 about and the highlights and all that good 80 00:02:37,655 --> 00:02:38,155 stuff, 81 00:02:38,534 --> 00:02:40,455 before we even get into that, could you 82 00:02:40,455 --> 00:02:42,474 tell the audience a little bit about yourself? 83 00:02:43,414 --> 00:02:46,155 Yeah. Thank you, Sean. I appreciate being here. 84 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:48,280 My name is Ashley Weckworth. 85 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:51,000 I am located in Orlando, Florida. 86 00:02:51,699 --> 00:02:54,739 I've been a volunteer for ISA for twelve 87 00:02:54,739 --> 00:02:55,639 years now. 88 00:02:56,099 --> 00:02:58,019 I actually have a day job, though. I'm 89 00:02:58,019 --> 00:03:00,224 a volunteer with ISA, which is the International 90 00:03:00,545 --> 00:03:02,944 Society of Automation. But in my day job, 91 00:03:02,944 --> 00:03:05,605 I'm actually a project manager for automation 92 00:03:05,985 --> 00:03:07,365 projects, so specifically 93 00:03:07,745 --> 00:03:10,545 SCADA systems projects for the electric grid right 94 00:03:10,545 --> 00:03:13,585 now. But our company also supports many other 95 00:03:13,585 --> 00:03:16,849 industries, so I actually started my career out. 96 00:03:16,849 --> 00:03:18,849 I was a chemical engineer. So I like 97 00:03:18,849 --> 00:03:20,530 to tell people, you never know how you're 98 00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:22,629 gonna find your way to automation professions. 99 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:25,650 There's so many different varying degrees and everything 100 00:03:25,650 --> 00:03:27,715 that kinda lead us to this place. But 101 00:03:27,715 --> 00:03:31,014 I graduated in chemical engineering, went into instrumentation 102 00:03:31,314 --> 00:03:32,055 and controls, 103 00:03:32,995 --> 00:03:35,314 for the oil and gas industry. So doing 104 00:03:35,314 --> 00:03:37,335 a lot of, you know, it was PLCs 105 00:03:37,555 --> 00:03:40,759 or DCS systems that we used. But essentially, 106 00:03:40,819 --> 00:03:43,879 as I actually got my pro professional engineer 107 00:03:44,020 --> 00:03:47,459 license in control systems. So as a chemical 108 00:03:47,459 --> 00:03:47,959 engineer, 109 00:03:48,259 --> 00:03:51,400 you don't know a lot about instrumentation controls 110 00:03:51,459 --> 00:03:52,199 and automation, 111 00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:53,719 at least I didn't. 112 00:03:54,044 --> 00:03:56,544 And so I was actually recommended to join 113 00:03:56,604 --> 00:03:58,465 ISA right out of school. 114 00:03:58,924 --> 00:04:01,965 So I joined ISA in June 2012 and 115 00:04:01,965 --> 00:04:04,444 became a volunteer leader at the local section 116 00:04:04,444 --> 00:04:06,625 in 2013 and then just grew, 117 00:04:07,469 --> 00:04:09,870 in my volunteer roles, and I am now 118 00:04:09,870 --> 00:04:10,689 the ISA 119 00:04:10,990 --> 00:04:11,490 president-elect 120 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:12,610 secretary. 121 00:04:12,909 --> 00:04:14,129 So what that means 122 00:04:14,509 --> 00:04:16,029 is in 2026, 123 00:04:16,029 --> 00:04:18,529 I will be the, ISA president 124 00:04:19,074 --> 00:04:21,235 for that calendar year. So I'm excited to 125 00:04:21,235 --> 00:04:22,134 be here today, 126 00:04:22,915 --> 00:04:25,335 to talk to you all about the ISA 127 00:04:25,634 --> 00:04:26,134 OT 128 00:04:27,074 --> 00:04:28,055 Cyber Summit. 129 00:04:28,915 --> 00:04:31,814 I actually was able to attend this event 130 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,060 this year. It's the third 131 00:04:34,439 --> 00:04:37,420 year that ISA has done this event. 132 00:04:38,199 --> 00:04:39,899 The first year was Aberdeen, 133 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:41,339 Scotland. 134 00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:43,500 The second year was in London. 135 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,560 And then this year, the first year I 136 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:46,779 was able to attend 137 00:04:47,125 --> 00:04:50,485 was actually in Brussels, Belgium. So we've been 138 00:04:50,485 --> 00:04:52,665 all over Europe in different capacities, 139 00:04:53,444 --> 00:04:55,044 and I was really excited to attend this 140 00:04:55,044 --> 00:04:56,725 event. And I wanted to come on here 141 00:04:56,725 --> 00:04:58,324 today, and I'm so thankful you allowed us 142 00:04:58,324 --> 00:04:59,845 to come on here today to just tell 143 00:04:59,845 --> 00:05:02,389 your audience and community that are all very, 144 00:05:02,710 --> 00:05:05,689 enthusiastic about automation about this summit. 145 00:05:06,150 --> 00:05:08,150 So, hopefully, maybe they wanna attend in the 146 00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:10,150 future or maybe just can see what ISA 147 00:05:10,150 --> 00:05:10,889 is all about, 148 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:12,949 and look into it more. So I'm really 149 00:05:12,949 --> 00:05:13,449 excited. 150 00:05:14,555 --> 00:05:16,154 No. And thank you for coming on. You 151 00:05:16,154 --> 00:05:18,555 know, it's we we all get so wrapped 152 00:05:18,555 --> 00:05:20,314 up in our day to day that it's 153 00:05:20,314 --> 00:05:22,334 great to have people on, like, from ISA 154 00:05:22,795 --> 00:05:24,795 to tell us what's going on. And, you 155 00:05:24,795 --> 00:05:26,634 know, maybe, you know, you're you get in 156 00:05:26,634 --> 00:05:28,770 a position later in your career where you 157 00:05:28,770 --> 00:05:31,490 can actually spend some time after work, you 158 00:05:31,490 --> 00:05:33,970 know, meeting with, your colleagues from all kinds 159 00:05:33,970 --> 00:05:34,870 of different industries. 160 00:05:35,569 --> 00:05:37,569 ISA is a great place to check into 161 00:05:37,569 --> 00:05:39,089 and and get involved with. But let me 162 00:05:39,089 --> 00:05:40,485 go ahead and turn it back to you. 163 00:05:40,644 --> 00:05:42,644 Yeah. No. And, Sean, you're so right in 164 00:05:42,644 --> 00:05:44,884 the sense of I tell people is even 165 00:05:44,884 --> 00:05:47,224 though right now I'm not really in 166 00:05:47,685 --> 00:05:49,224 the day to day cybersecurity 167 00:05:49,764 --> 00:05:52,930 or OT cyber space, this conference was actually 168 00:05:52,930 --> 00:05:55,670 still really beneficial because of all the diverse 169 00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:57,430 connections that I gained there. 170 00:05:57,810 --> 00:05:59,889 It was actually the first time I had 171 00:05:59,889 --> 00:06:02,290 been more of the minority coming from The 172 00:06:02,290 --> 00:06:04,209 United States in the sense that you had 173 00:06:04,209 --> 00:06:05,430 people from Spain. 174 00:06:05,810 --> 00:06:07,029 You had people from, 175 00:06:07,805 --> 00:06:10,704 you know, Belgium, of course. You had France, 176 00:06:10,925 --> 00:06:13,485 you had Ireland, you had London in The 177 00:06:13,485 --> 00:06:16,704 UK. Right? You had different perspectives that everybody's 178 00:06:16,845 --> 00:06:17,985 trying to come together. 179 00:06:18,285 --> 00:06:20,444 And ISA had this vision statement that's create 180 00:06:20,444 --> 00:06:22,470 a better world through automation. Is and that's 181 00:06:22,470 --> 00:06:23,990 truly what this group's trying to do is 182 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:25,050 we're trying to protect 183 00:06:25,589 --> 00:06:28,149 all of our automation systems in the OT 184 00:06:28,149 --> 00:06:28,649 space 185 00:06:29,350 --> 00:06:32,230 against those vulnerabilities or those threats and how 186 00:06:32,230 --> 00:06:34,949 it will impact us from an operational standpoint, 187 00:06:34,949 --> 00:06:37,290 but also a business standpoint. So I thought 188 00:06:37,524 --> 00:06:39,204 even though I'm not in it day to 189 00:06:39,204 --> 00:06:39,704 day, 190 00:06:40,164 --> 00:06:41,604 like you mentioned, is sometimes I just have 191 00:06:41,604 --> 00:06:43,524 my blinders on, do my job, know what 192 00:06:43,524 --> 00:06:44,185 I'm doing, 193 00:06:44,564 --> 00:06:46,724 is it was very unique to talk to 194 00:06:46,724 --> 00:06:49,685 these folks at the socials and in the 195 00:06:49,685 --> 00:06:52,060 the meetings and listen to them to really 196 00:06:52,060 --> 00:06:55,980 expand my knowledge of what automation can be 197 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:57,740 and also what we can do to protect 198 00:06:57,740 --> 00:07:00,460 it, but also just, like, building those connections 199 00:07:00,460 --> 00:07:02,460 because you never know where your career might 200 00:07:02,460 --> 00:07:02,960 lead. 201 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:05,360 And I really did value that. So, 202 00:07:05,865 --> 00:07:08,125 with that, I did wanna mention that ISA 203 00:07:08,345 --> 00:07:11,145 OT Cyber Summit did have two unique tracks 204 00:07:11,145 --> 00:07:13,145 this year. I do feel like we try 205 00:07:13,145 --> 00:07:15,225 to change up the tracks based on what's 206 00:07:15,225 --> 00:07:18,025 happening in today's world, what people are talking 207 00:07:18,025 --> 00:07:19,004 about, the trends 208 00:07:19,649 --> 00:07:22,230 in this area. And so this year, 209 00:07:22,610 --> 00:07:25,750 we had a chain a track called threat 210 00:07:25,889 --> 00:07:26,389 intelligence. 211 00:07:26,850 --> 00:07:30,310 So really just identifying threats, knowing the vulnerabilities, 212 00:07:30,769 --> 00:07:31,269 knowing 213 00:07:31,664 --> 00:07:32,724 how to respond 214 00:07:33,024 --> 00:07:35,185 and react to those, how to prepare for 215 00:07:35,185 --> 00:07:37,504 those threats. So that was one track that 216 00:07:37,504 --> 00:07:39,824 we had, and the other track was securing 217 00:07:39,824 --> 00:07:42,384 the supply chain. Hey, everybody. Just wanted to 218 00:07:42,384 --> 00:07:43,904 jump in there for a minute and pay 219 00:07:43,904 --> 00:07:45,584 the bills and talk to you about some 220 00:07:45,584 --> 00:07:47,329 of the changes coming to the courses at 221 00:07:47,329 --> 00:07:48,949 theautomationschool.com. 222 00:07:49,250 --> 00:07:51,329 If you're watching this video, then you will 223 00:07:51,329 --> 00:07:53,089 see me standing in front of a bunch 224 00:07:53,089 --> 00:07:55,970 of equipment, and that's because I am updating 225 00:07:56,129 --> 00:07:58,790 actively updating all of my PLC courses 226 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:01,350 as well as filming new additions. 227 00:08:02,045 --> 00:08:04,205 So I just wanna make it very clear. 228 00:08:04,205 --> 00:08:06,464 If you buy the existing course today, 229 00:08:07,004 --> 00:08:09,425 you will get the updated edition as well. 230 00:08:09,645 --> 00:08:11,884 And, there are some add on courses I'm 231 00:08:11,884 --> 00:08:13,485 doing that will be optional. You can buy 232 00:08:13,485 --> 00:08:15,370 them or not buy them. But in any 233 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:17,290 case, I just wanted to let everybody know 234 00:08:17,290 --> 00:08:19,529 that I wanna protect your investment. I know 235 00:08:19,529 --> 00:08:21,470 I've been doing this for twelve plus years, 236 00:08:21,529 --> 00:08:22,189 you know, 237 00:08:22,730 --> 00:08:24,490 on my own as the automation school and 238 00:08:24,490 --> 00:08:25,629 the automation blog. 239 00:08:25,930 --> 00:08:27,850 And twenty five years before, I was, you 240 00:08:27,850 --> 00:08:30,595 know, working as a, a specialist. But I 241 00:08:30,595 --> 00:08:32,034 just wanted to let you know that, you 242 00:08:32,034 --> 00:08:33,634 know, if you make an investment today, you're 243 00:08:33,634 --> 00:08:35,394 not gonna miss out on what I previously 244 00:08:35,394 --> 00:08:37,394 did, but you're also gonna get what I 245 00:08:37,394 --> 00:08:39,794 continue to do. And that that's very important 246 00:08:39,794 --> 00:08:41,634 to me. And all my courses are buy 247 00:08:41,634 --> 00:08:42,934 once own forever. 248 00:08:43,820 --> 00:08:46,059 So if you, make the investment if you 249 00:08:46,059 --> 00:08:47,659 made the investment, let's say, going back to 250 00:08:47,659 --> 00:08:49,120 2013, 2014, 251 00:08:49,580 --> 00:08:50,940 you're still gonna get the updated, 252 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:53,259 courses. So I know a lot of people 253 00:08:53,259 --> 00:08:54,860 get confused when you start looking at the 254 00:08:54,860 --> 00:08:57,440 new versions of Studio 5,000. It looks different, 255 00:08:57,745 --> 00:09:00,465 you know, than even version 30. Right? And 256 00:09:00,465 --> 00:09:02,065 so, you know, I figured it was you 257 00:09:02,065 --> 00:09:03,425 know, a lot of people too move to 258 00:09:03,425 --> 00:09:06,065 a Windows 11, and, there's some new cool 259 00:09:06,065 --> 00:09:08,144 stuff I wanna include. You know, over the 260 00:09:08,144 --> 00:09:11,129 time, I've looked for different hardware sales and, 261 00:09:11,129 --> 00:09:12,330 you know, I bought a lot of different 262 00:09:12,330 --> 00:09:14,009 equipment, you know, just out of my own 263 00:09:14,009 --> 00:09:15,529 pocket that I wanna show you guys as 264 00:09:15,529 --> 00:09:18,169 well. So with that said, that's an update 265 00:09:18,169 --> 00:09:20,330 on the automation school. Now let's get right 266 00:09:20,330 --> 00:09:22,029 back into this week's podcast. 267 00:09:22,809 --> 00:09:24,225 So making sure that 268 00:09:24,784 --> 00:09:27,664 when we have disruptions to those supply chain 269 00:09:27,664 --> 00:09:30,544 areas or what those disruptions might look like, 270 00:09:30,544 --> 00:09:32,544 how are we gonna adapt to those? What 271 00:09:32,544 --> 00:09:34,004 does that mean to do 272 00:09:34,464 --> 00:09:36,784 to make sure that we're being dependable and 273 00:09:36,784 --> 00:09:38,944 reliable in what we're trying to accomplish in 274 00:09:38,944 --> 00:09:41,110 the supply chain and making sure we understand 275 00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:44,170 those impacts as well. So two different tracks. 276 00:09:44,230 --> 00:09:45,529 Of course, we had speakers, 277 00:09:46,309 --> 00:09:48,950 that sometimes overlapped both because they do kinda 278 00:09:48,950 --> 00:09:52,024 intertwine together. We had 40 speakers, 279 00:09:52,644 --> 00:09:53,144 two 280 00:09:53,605 --> 00:09:55,384 thirty attendees, and 281 00:09:55,684 --> 00:09:58,324 over 20 sponsors this year. So the event 282 00:09:58,324 --> 00:10:00,424 just continues to grow and grow. 283 00:10:01,365 --> 00:10:03,605 But the, the real thing that I loved 284 00:10:03,605 --> 00:10:05,384 about the conference and the content 285 00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:09,639 was it it actually shocked me how transparent 286 00:10:10,179 --> 00:10:10,679 and 287 00:10:11,379 --> 00:10:13,700 open the conversation was, because I feel like 288 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:16,340 at some conferences, you go and you feel 289 00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:18,660 like you're just sitting and being, like, preached 290 00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:19,160 at. 291 00:10:19,804 --> 00:10:21,485 And you're like, I don't know if I 292 00:10:21,485 --> 00:10:23,884 agree with that. At this conference, I felt 293 00:10:23,884 --> 00:10:26,625 like was different. It had more panel discussions. 294 00:10:27,404 --> 00:10:29,884 And one that really stood out to me 295 00:10:29,884 --> 00:10:32,865 is it was a panel discussion about ITOT 296 00:10:33,164 --> 00:10:36,169 convergence. And now this has been a theme 297 00:10:36,169 --> 00:10:39,230 word for years now. Right? IT, OT convergence, 298 00:10:39,370 --> 00:10:40,589 that's the way to go. 299 00:10:41,289 --> 00:10:44,089 It actually took a shift in the the 300 00:10:44,089 --> 00:10:46,889 discussion in the panel discussion where people were 301 00:10:46,889 --> 00:10:48,509 actually like, why? 302 00:10:49,424 --> 00:10:51,664 Why why are we trying to do that? 303 00:10:51,664 --> 00:10:53,904 It seems like IT just wants to do 304 00:10:53,904 --> 00:10:56,225 that, and OT is being told you must 305 00:10:56,225 --> 00:10:58,304 do that. And so I thought it was 306 00:10:58,384 --> 00:10:59,745 and and you would think that we were 307 00:10:59,745 --> 00:11:01,585 about to go, like, in a boxing ring, 308 00:11:01,585 --> 00:11:04,325 but we weren't. Right? It was actually, like, 309 00:11:04,779 --> 00:11:06,559 people wanted to hear 310 00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:09,039 and be inclusive 311 00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:10,240 of counterarguments, 312 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:13,899 which, again, I think was very unique for 313 00:11:13,899 --> 00:11:15,820 this kind of conference in the sense of 314 00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:17,259 you might think that we were trying to 315 00:11:17,259 --> 00:11:17,759 push 316 00:11:18,335 --> 00:11:20,254 OT, IT convergent, but it was no. Like, 317 00:11:20,254 --> 00:11:23,315 let's discuss the pain points and the challenges 318 00:11:23,774 --> 00:11:26,835 and where we like, what's holding us back 319 00:11:26,975 --> 00:11:29,934 from converging? What are the benefits of that 320 00:11:29,934 --> 00:11:30,434 convergence? 321 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:34,100 And I thought what was unique is we 322 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:35,000 had IT 323 00:11:35,620 --> 00:11:36,679 backgrounded people 324 00:11:37,139 --> 00:11:39,860 on the panel as well as OT backgrounded 325 00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:41,720 people. So you kinda see 326 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:44,980 both sides where they actually had people raise 327 00:11:44,980 --> 00:11:45,639 their hand 328 00:11:46,355 --> 00:11:48,674 what their background was in. And it was 329 00:11:48,674 --> 00:11:51,014 kinda unique to see the audience members 330 00:11:51,714 --> 00:11:53,954 being like, yeah. I came from the IT 331 00:11:53,954 --> 00:11:56,115 background, and I'm being told I need to 332 00:11:56,115 --> 00:11:58,754 watch over this IT space or the IT 333 00:11:58,754 --> 00:12:00,834 people raising their hand or OT people. I'm 334 00:12:00,834 --> 00:12:02,809 sorry. OT people saying, 335 00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:04,709 yeah. I came from the OT side, and 336 00:12:04,709 --> 00:12:06,789 I want the IT side to to watch 337 00:12:06,789 --> 00:12:08,870 what they're asking and be careful and stuff 338 00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:09,769 like that. And so 339 00:12:10,149 --> 00:12:12,549 I, again, wanna go back to it was 340 00:12:12,549 --> 00:12:15,164 very cool to see the diverse connections 341 00:12:16,345 --> 00:12:18,205 in this group, but also the inclusiveness 342 00:12:18,585 --> 00:12:20,524 that we weren't trying to 343 00:12:21,705 --> 00:12:23,945 push ideas. We were trying to get people 344 00:12:23,945 --> 00:12:26,664 talking about the options and what's available and 345 00:12:26,664 --> 00:12:28,110 why. And I so I thought it was 346 00:12:28,350 --> 00:12:30,110 interesting that I feel like I've always heard, 347 00:12:30,110 --> 00:12:31,889 like, we wanna push towards convergence, 348 00:12:32,589 --> 00:12:34,529 with, you know, just having better data, 349 00:12:35,149 --> 00:12:37,709 knowing what's happening through the whole system, and 350 00:12:37,709 --> 00:12:39,250 and from a cyber aspect. 351 00:12:39,629 --> 00:12:40,129 But 352 00:12:40,509 --> 00:12:41,950 I thought it was unique to hear how 353 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:44,464 we could work together and keep them still 354 00:12:44,524 --> 00:12:45,024 separate 355 00:12:45,804 --> 00:12:48,845 in some certain situations and and why. And 356 00:12:48,845 --> 00:12:51,245 so that was that was unique to me. 357 00:12:51,245 --> 00:12:53,084 I I thought I was like, wow. This 358 00:12:53,084 --> 00:12:54,924 took a it took a turn, but in 359 00:12:54,924 --> 00:12:56,764 a positive way. And I think we all 360 00:12:56,764 --> 00:12:57,504 left there 361 00:12:58,019 --> 00:12:59,959 really challenged with 362 00:13:00,339 --> 00:13:02,279 where do we want this to head, 363 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:04,899 why, and how do we get rid of 364 00:13:04,899 --> 00:13:06,740 those pain points. So Yeah. You know, I 365 00:13:06,740 --> 00:13:09,779 think a lot of controls engineers, right, they 366 00:13:09,779 --> 00:13:11,539 they know their they know their IT guys. 367 00:13:11,539 --> 00:13:13,240 So let's say you're an NGS er, 368 00:13:13,894 --> 00:13:16,375 and they know but they know the the 369 00:13:16,375 --> 00:13:17,355 cost of downtime. 370 00:13:17,894 --> 00:13:20,774 Mhmm. And and in many cases, there's there's 371 00:13:20,774 --> 00:13:22,215 no convergence because 372 00:13:22,695 --> 00:13:23,195 Right. 373 00:13:23,735 --> 00:13:24,955 There's there's no 374 00:13:25,415 --> 00:13:26,715 tolerance for downtime. 375 00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:30,139 If you're making computer chips or you're making, 376 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,600 well, I guess, even potato chips, you you 377 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,159 really downtime is such a profit killer. Right? 378 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:37,500 And Yeah. In in some cases, it can 379 00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:39,799 it can take years to recover from a 380 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:41,179 day or a week of downtime. 381 00:13:41,654 --> 00:13:42,394 And so 382 00:13:43,574 --> 00:13:46,054 that mission critical aspect of what we do 383 00:13:46,054 --> 00:13:47,274 in industrial automation 384 00:13:48,214 --> 00:13:50,934 is not always that mentality is not always 385 00:13:50,934 --> 00:13:52,154 present in IT. 386 00:13:52,534 --> 00:13:54,454 In many companies, and I'm not saying all 387 00:13:54,454 --> 00:13:56,639 IT people, but in many companies, IT is 388 00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:57,299 a firefighter. 389 00:13:57,759 --> 00:14:00,179 They're a tech who's been thrown into the, 390 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,240 you know, thrown to the wolves, and they're 391 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,360 fixing everything from smartphones to, you know, trying 392 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,365 to get the UPS, replaced to, you know, 393 00:14:08,365 --> 00:14:10,924 somebody needs a better monitor to the to 394 00:14:10,924 --> 00:14:12,845 the CEO, maybe needs a little hand holding 395 00:14:12,845 --> 00:14:15,164 to get the PowerPoint to work. So, yeah, 396 00:14:15,164 --> 00:14:17,485 different worlds and and and it's so you 397 00:14:17,644 --> 00:14:19,404 every every and I'm sure you see this 398 00:14:19,404 --> 00:14:22,464 in your business, but every site, every customer 399 00:14:22,524 --> 00:14:23,490 seems to be 400 00:14:24,049 --> 00:14:25,970 unique well, because they have unique people. Right? 401 00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:27,970 But every site you go to is even 402 00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:30,529 different sites in the same company. They have 403 00:14:30,529 --> 00:14:32,929 different cultures and just I guess they all 404 00:14:32,929 --> 00:14:34,610 have unique people, unique teams, so they're gonna 405 00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:36,610 that's gonna happen. But, yeah, I can definitely 406 00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:37,875 see where you're coming from, 407 00:14:38,434 --> 00:14:39,715 with with that. That sounds like it was 408 00:14:39,715 --> 00:14:41,014 a very interesting discussion. 409 00:14:41,554 --> 00:14:43,154 Right. And you bring up a great point 410 00:14:43,154 --> 00:14:45,414 in the sense of I I remember specifically 411 00:14:45,875 --> 00:14:46,355 this, 412 00:14:46,835 --> 00:14:48,215 CISO or CISO, 413 00:14:48,914 --> 00:14:51,794 you know, chief information security officer from Johns 414 00:14:51,794 --> 00:14:53,174 Mansville came in 415 00:14:53,620 --> 00:14:55,939 and was talking about how he came from 416 00:14:55,939 --> 00:14:58,339 an IT background and was told you're kinda 417 00:14:58,339 --> 00:15:00,500 leading this. And he noticed that he had 418 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,539 the gap from the OT lens and that 419 00:15:03,539 --> 00:15:05,939 downtime, like you're talking about, or the individual 420 00:15:05,939 --> 00:15:08,325 plant to where he did a strategic 421 00:15:08,945 --> 00:15:11,504 hire, essentially, or move to bring in an 422 00:15:11,504 --> 00:15:12,644 OT lens 423 00:15:13,504 --> 00:15:16,865 into his, you know, umbrella, essentially, to make 424 00:15:16,865 --> 00:15:19,590 sure he wasn't, like, missing something or 425 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:22,790 speaking and not realizing that impact of downturn. 426 00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:25,269 And that's that's actually Scott Reynolds who talked 427 00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:27,529 here, I believe, last year about this summit, 428 00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:30,389 is that's who he brought under him to 429 00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:32,330 bring in that, you know, OT 430 00:15:33,004 --> 00:15:35,345 thought process, and they actually do travel 431 00:15:35,965 --> 00:15:38,205 to their different locations. Like you said, every 432 00:15:38,205 --> 00:15:40,924 plant's different, every manufacturing facility is different, to 433 00:15:40,924 --> 00:15:42,144 make sure they're hearing 434 00:15:42,764 --> 00:15:45,804 the unique circumstances and what they can do 435 00:15:45,804 --> 00:15:46,465 to support, 436 00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:48,889 but also not just, like, pushing 437 00:15:49,429 --> 00:15:51,750 them to do it a certain way knowing 438 00:15:51,750 --> 00:15:53,670 that there are the variances. So I think 439 00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:55,529 that you're exactly right. So 440 00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:56,730 perfect. 441 00:15:57,190 --> 00:16:00,230 So the other side, right, is that that's 442 00:16:00,230 --> 00:16:03,004 really trending right now and especially in Europe, 443 00:16:03,784 --> 00:16:05,784 which I learned, fun fact, I was like, 444 00:16:05,784 --> 00:16:07,725 why is this conference in Belgium 445 00:16:08,184 --> 00:16:10,684 and in Brussels? And I did not realize 446 00:16:10,745 --> 00:16:13,245 that Brussels is, like, the de facto 447 00:16:13,625 --> 00:16:16,284 capital of the EU, the European Union. 448 00:16:16,659 --> 00:16:18,600 And so there's a lot of regulation 449 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:20,600 that is happening 450 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:22,039 in Brussels 451 00:16:22,419 --> 00:16:24,419 and and things that, like, come down from 452 00:16:24,419 --> 00:16:25,639 a compliance standpoint. 453 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:28,580 And so a lot of the other, you 454 00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:32,205 know, discussions that happened was regarding the regulatory 455 00:16:32,504 --> 00:16:33,644 landscape across, 456 00:16:34,665 --> 00:16:36,745 all the all the world essentially and, like, 457 00:16:36,745 --> 00:16:38,585 NIST two, which I had to write this 458 00:16:38,585 --> 00:16:40,424 down because I am I'm not as familiar 459 00:16:40,424 --> 00:16:43,404 with NIST two, is network and information security 460 00:16:43,544 --> 00:16:44,044 directive. 461 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,559 There's been NIST one for a while or 462 00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:47,299 just NIST, 463 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,200 and now they've come up with an update 464 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,860 that actually spans across multiple sectors. 465 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:54,879 And we can see from NIST two and 466 00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:57,840 from RED, which is radio equipment directive, and 467 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,184 just other cyber initiatives and regulation coming down, 468 00:17:01,184 --> 00:17:02,404 cybersecurity initiatives, 469 00:17:03,024 --> 00:17:04,325 that more and more 470 00:17:04,785 --> 00:17:08,484 government or state officials are seeing the vulnerabilities 471 00:17:08,944 --> 00:17:10,565 that could happen or the risk 472 00:17:10,950 --> 00:17:11,929 that could happen 473 00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:15,349 if they don't say you shall follow this 474 00:17:15,349 --> 00:17:18,089 or do something to protect your 475 00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:19,210 OT 476 00:17:19,589 --> 00:17:20,089 systems 477 00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:22,409 from, you know, disruption, 478 00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:25,234 from downtime, all of that, especially the those, 479 00:17:25,234 --> 00:17:27,015 again, like you mentioned, mission critical 480 00:17:27,875 --> 00:17:29,794 things. And and and there and I'm gonna 481 00:17:29,794 --> 00:17:32,035 talk about one specifically, one session that stood 482 00:17:32,035 --> 00:17:32,855 out with this. 483 00:17:33,474 --> 00:17:34,914 But I do want us to all be 484 00:17:34,914 --> 00:17:37,015 aware is, like, with these regulatory 485 00:17:37,554 --> 00:17:38,214 and governmental 486 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,059 mandates or guidance or directives, 487 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,880 is there are products out there and standards 488 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,400 out there that a lot of people are 489 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,740 leaning on to make sure they are protected 490 00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:52,759 and, you know, ready for an incident and 491 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:55,005 how they respond, how they react if it 492 00:17:55,005 --> 00:17:57,085 happened. And I I think last time this 493 00:17:57,085 --> 00:17:59,085 was also talked about is six two four 494 00:17:59,085 --> 00:18:00,845 four three. I think you all had Eric 495 00:18:00,845 --> 00:18:03,565 Cosman on Yes. Yeah. On an episode as 496 00:18:03,565 --> 00:18:04,065 well. 497 00:18:04,444 --> 00:18:06,605 So I would advise anybody that isn't familiar 498 00:18:06,605 --> 00:18:08,044 with 62443, 499 00:18:08,044 --> 00:18:08,784 go back, 500 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:11,849 look for that episode to really dive into 501 00:18:11,849 --> 00:18:13,950 the meat of what that is. But 502 00:18:14,250 --> 00:18:14,750 ISA 503 00:18:15,289 --> 00:18:15,789 developed 504 00:18:16,250 --> 00:18:16,750 the 505 00:18:17,450 --> 00:18:18,029 the IEC 506 00:18:18,409 --> 00:18:21,210 ISA six two four four three standard that 507 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:22,029 has different 508 00:18:22,785 --> 00:18:25,664 different layers to it that you kinda can 509 00:18:25,664 --> 00:18:27,985 pick it which layer you need to do 510 00:18:27,985 --> 00:18:29,825 based on where you stand in this process. 511 00:18:29,825 --> 00:18:31,205 But, essentially, is 512 00:18:31,585 --> 00:18:33,924 because ISA has this as the foundation 513 00:18:34,305 --> 00:18:36,404 is this is what a lot of regulators 514 00:18:36,660 --> 00:18:38,580 are looking at to be like, you need 515 00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:40,500 to make sure you're doing this. You need 516 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,420 to make sure you're being as compliant as 517 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:43,859 you can be with six two four four 518 00:18:43,859 --> 00:18:45,400 three. So that's why ISA 519 00:18:46,099 --> 00:18:48,420 continues to host this event and talk about 520 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:50,359 it because we can see from a regulatory, 521 00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:51,559 you know, perspective 522 00:18:52,365 --> 00:18:54,285 that it is coming. And and and it 523 00:18:54,285 --> 00:18:56,204 has been coming for a while now, but 524 00:18:56,204 --> 00:18:57,904 I think it's now being more enforced 525 00:18:58,365 --> 00:19:00,845 than ever before in certain regions. So just 526 00:19:00,845 --> 00:19:02,525 keep that in mind. Yeah. You know, I 527 00:19:02,525 --> 00:19:02,845 think, 528 00:19:03,404 --> 00:19:05,005 and and I may get this wrong, but 529 00:19:05,005 --> 00:19:07,244 from a previous coverage of NIST and NIST 530 00:19:07,244 --> 00:19:09,799 two, you know, it's it's, you know, from 531 00:19:09,799 --> 00:19:12,119 memory, just going by memory. You know, NIST 532 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,059 was really about core 533 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:16,680 providers. So those people who, if they got 534 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,680 hacked, could really affect society in a big 535 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,420 way. And with NIST two, right, 536 00:19:21,765 --> 00:19:24,325 it broadens that. So some industries that you 537 00:19:24,325 --> 00:19:26,484 may think, well, you know, if that plant 538 00:19:26,484 --> 00:19:28,325 goes down, it's really not gonna well, it 539 00:19:28,325 --> 00:19:30,105 could affect your your community, 540 00:19:30,404 --> 00:19:32,484 your city in a big way. You just 541 00:19:32,484 --> 00:19:34,565 may not be have been aware of that 542 00:19:34,565 --> 00:19:35,065 previously. 543 00:19:35,849 --> 00:19:36,349 And 544 00:19:36,650 --> 00:19:38,890 so, you know, in America, I think you're 545 00:19:38,890 --> 00:19:40,589 absolutely right. You know, 546 00:19:41,289 --> 00:19:43,869 not that we're gonna get those same regulations, 547 00:19:44,569 --> 00:19:46,349 probably not word for word, but, 548 00:19:47,049 --> 00:19:48,490 you know, a lot of OEMs here are 549 00:19:48,490 --> 00:19:50,625 shipped there. Right? A lot of integrators work 550 00:19:50,625 --> 00:19:53,285 on machines here ship there. But beyond that, 551 00:19:54,384 --> 00:19:54,884 understanding 552 00:19:55,184 --> 00:19:57,525 what the threats they're trying to protect from, 553 00:19:57,585 --> 00:19:59,825 the six two four four three layered you 554 00:19:59,825 --> 00:20:01,445 know, the different layers of standards, 555 00:20:01,819 --> 00:20:03,740 You know? So you understand what when you 556 00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:05,819 see a product, right, like a remote access 557 00:20:05,819 --> 00:20:06,319 product, 558 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:08,619 and it has all these different numbers on 559 00:20:08,619 --> 00:20:09,440 it, you understand 560 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:11,900 what are they protecting? What kind of what 561 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,140 kind of security was built in, baked into 562 00:20:14,140 --> 00:20:16,940 this product? Like, this this product has this 563 00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:18,835 number on it. That means they went through 564 00:20:18,835 --> 00:20:21,335 all kinds of testing and and, you know, 565 00:20:21,714 --> 00:20:23,714 and to to make sure that their, you 566 00:20:23,714 --> 00:20:26,355 know, processes and the product itself and the 567 00:20:26,355 --> 00:20:28,434 supply chain and all that. So I think 568 00:20:28,434 --> 00:20:30,775 it's very helpful. Not that we're going to 569 00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:33,269 necessarily have to meet this and this too. 570 00:20:33,490 --> 00:20:35,809 We may have similar regulations, but the fact 571 00:20:35,809 --> 00:20:37,490 that you're staying up to date with what's 572 00:20:37,490 --> 00:20:38,930 going on in the world as far as 573 00:20:38,930 --> 00:20:41,410 cybersecurity is concerned. And we've had so many 574 00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:43,650 vendors on talking about zones and conduits and 575 00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:45,404 Yeah. Just all kinds of all kinds of 576 00:20:45,404 --> 00:20:46,544 different things, you know, 577 00:20:46,845 --> 00:20:48,784 secure remote access, VPNs. 578 00:20:49,325 --> 00:20:51,345 And all of this plays a role in 579 00:20:51,404 --> 00:20:53,244 in you know, there's just so many great 580 00:20:53,244 --> 00:20:55,484 products out there, but, you know, that that's 581 00:20:55,484 --> 00:20:57,964 my pitch for why staying abreast of these 582 00:20:57,964 --> 00:20:58,625 is important. 583 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:00,820 In worst case scenario 584 00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:03,600 hey, everybody. Just wanted to break in here 585 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,680 and pay some bills. Did you know that 586 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,539 the automation school is a factory IO reseller? 587 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,920 That's right. Not only that, I have questions 588 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,345 on using factory IO with ControlLogix and CompactLogix, 589 00:21:16,045 --> 00:21:18,384 with the MicroLogix and Slic 500, 590 00:21:18,525 --> 00:21:20,625 and with the micro 800. 591 00:21:20,765 --> 00:21:22,944 Now factory IO is a three d, 592 00:21:23,804 --> 00:21:26,144 factory simulator that allows you 593 00:21:26,529 --> 00:21:28,710 to really practice your programming skills, 594 00:21:29,569 --> 00:21:31,490 not on an actual machine, but on a 595 00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:34,130 three d simulation of a machine. And I'll 596 00:21:34,130 --> 00:21:36,529 tell you what, some of these, are really 597 00:21:36,529 --> 00:21:38,690 challenging. Right? The early editions are not the 598 00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:41,234 early levels aren't really that hard, but as 599 00:21:41,234 --> 00:21:43,394 you get them to lesson three, four, five, 600 00:21:43,394 --> 00:21:46,515 six, and more, they start getting much harder. 601 00:21:46,515 --> 00:21:48,994 And a lot of times, we utilize, like, 602 00:21:48,994 --> 00:21:51,634 a state machine to solve them because, like, 603 00:21:51,634 --> 00:21:53,894 if we have, merging two different conveyors 604 00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:55,670 or if we're checking for the height of 605 00:21:55,670 --> 00:21:57,210 packages and things like that, 606 00:21:57,670 --> 00:22:00,330 or we're filling a tank, whatever we're doing, 607 00:22:00,710 --> 00:22:02,070 a lot of times you wanna take a 608 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:04,809 very sequential approach to those type of applications, 609 00:22:05,509 --> 00:22:07,589 whereas other applications, you know, you take more 610 00:22:07,589 --> 00:22:09,625 of a batch approach. But in any case, 611 00:22:09,625 --> 00:22:12,045 if you don't know anything about Factory IO, 612 00:22:12,744 --> 00:22:14,505 go check out lesson one zero two in 613 00:22:14,505 --> 00:22:16,984 any of my PLC courses, and I put 614 00:22:16,984 --> 00:22:18,664 a little demo in there along with the 615 00:22:18,664 --> 00:22:20,684 free utility I give away with my courses 616 00:22:21,049 --> 00:22:23,210 as well as for the compact and control 617 00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:25,470 logics. There's another package we sell called, 618 00:22:26,009 --> 00:22:26,990 PLC Logics 619 00:22:27,289 --> 00:22:28,890 that is similar to Factory IO, but it 620 00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:30,970 doesn't require a PLC. It doesn't require that 621 00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:33,150 you have your own license of Studio 5,000. 622 00:22:33,609 --> 00:22:36,509 It's actually it's all self contained training, 623 00:22:37,105 --> 00:22:40,704 software. So check those out over at theautomationschool.com. 624 00:22:40,704 --> 00:22:42,544 And with that, let's jump right back into 625 00:22:42,544 --> 00:22:44,944 this week's episode. Don't connect the plant flow 626 00:22:44,944 --> 00:22:47,265 to the Internet. You know? I know you 627 00:22:47,265 --> 00:22:48,865 I know you wanna be able to VPN 628 00:22:48,865 --> 00:22:50,849 in and check on your PLCs, but, you 629 00:22:50,849 --> 00:22:53,089 know, just make sure that connection is ultra 630 00:22:53,089 --> 00:22:54,769 secure. If you're not if you're not sure 631 00:22:54,769 --> 00:22:55,589 if it's secure, 632 00:22:55,970 --> 00:22:58,630 unplug it and and do the research because, 633 00:22:58,769 --> 00:23:00,769 you know, we've heard about the pipeline where 634 00:23:00,769 --> 00:23:02,849 there was, you know, a cyber attack and 635 00:23:02,849 --> 00:23:05,375 there was, you know, ransomware, and we've heard 636 00:23:05,375 --> 00:23:08,255 about hospital hospitals and, you know, just, you 637 00:23:08,255 --> 00:23:10,015 can pretty much think any place in our 638 00:23:10,015 --> 00:23:12,734 society, there's been a ransomware attack. And so 639 00:23:12,734 --> 00:23:14,654 we're just gonna be cognizant. We heard a 640 00:23:14,654 --> 00:23:16,890 major news talking about don't even charge your 641 00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:19,609 phone at the airport because Right. Cult I 642 00:23:19,609 --> 00:23:21,049 don't know how to get in, but culprits 643 00:23:21,049 --> 00:23:23,450 have been going in and hacking the physical 644 00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:25,769 hardware so they can steal your information when 645 00:23:25,769 --> 00:23:27,769 you're using The US. So we all have 646 00:23:27,769 --> 00:23:29,049 to help each other stay up to date 647 00:23:29,049 --> 00:23:30,970 on this. We gotta share these stories. That's 648 00:23:30,970 --> 00:23:33,744 what people do best is share stories about 649 00:23:33,744 --> 00:23:35,184 things that are important that we need to 650 00:23:35,184 --> 00:23:35,924 know about. 651 00:23:36,625 --> 00:23:38,464 And, you know, that's that's kind of my 652 00:23:38,464 --> 00:23:39,825 pitch for staying. Let me turn it back. 653 00:23:39,825 --> 00:23:41,345 Let me turn it back to you. Well 654 00:23:41,424 --> 00:23:43,265 no. And you bring up it honestly makes 655 00:23:43,265 --> 00:23:45,825 me think about a session that happened about 656 00:23:45,825 --> 00:23:48,529 Wi Fi. Is it it's talking about Wi 657 00:23:48,529 --> 00:23:50,849 Fi security, and I know that I'm just 658 00:23:50,849 --> 00:23:51,509 as, like, 659 00:23:51,809 --> 00:23:54,150 guilty of this where we'll just sign on 660 00:23:54,609 --> 00:23:57,330 to what we believe is the local safe 661 00:23:57,330 --> 00:23:59,269 Wi Fi, whether it's the airport. 662 00:23:59,775 --> 00:24:00,275 Yep. 663 00:24:00,894 --> 00:24:02,255 Or the use case that he gave me 664 00:24:02,255 --> 00:24:04,174 even here, like, how many of us signed 665 00:24:04,174 --> 00:24:06,894 into the hotel's Wi Fi? Yeah. Right? And 666 00:24:06,894 --> 00:24:09,474 he talked about how and he kept saying, 667 00:24:09,535 --> 00:24:10,035 hypothetically, 668 00:24:10,335 --> 00:24:11,695 to make sure because he knew it was 669 00:24:11,695 --> 00:24:14,165 against the law, but, like, hypothetically, I could 670 00:24:14,165 --> 00:24:17,026 spoof it right now. Right? Is essentially and 671 00:24:17,026 --> 00:24:19,570 he went through how he could do it. 672 00:24:19,570 --> 00:24:22,113 Right? How he could use a device, hypothetically, 673 00:24:22,113 --> 00:24:24,657 in his laptop to essentially make the Wi 674 00:24:24,657 --> 00:24:27,044 Fi go out for a second, create a 675 00:24:27,044 --> 00:24:29,704 new Wi Fi with a very similar name 676 00:24:30,164 --> 00:24:32,484 that makes you believe that that's now the 677 00:24:32,484 --> 00:24:34,644 new connection that you have to, you know, 678 00:24:34,644 --> 00:24:35,784 say that you're joining 679 00:24:36,164 --> 00:24:38,404 and, you know oh, there it is. My 680 00:24:38,404 --> 00:24:40,640 my current hotel Wi Fi went off. There's 681 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,320 the other name that looks very similar Yeah. 682 00:24:43,519 --> 00:24:46,339 And joining and not realizing you're joining, 683 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,599 that unsecure network. They can get in different 684 00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:52,174 ways now. So you're you're very right. As 685 00:24:52,174 --> 00:24:54,015 I tell people, is is really that threat 686 00:24:54,015 --> 00:24:54,515 intelligence 687 00:24:54,894 --> 00:24:56,195 track at OT, 688 00:24:57,055 --> 00:24:59,775 cyber made me, in a good way, again, 689 00:24:59,775 --> 00:25:02,894 expand my knowledge for what is possible out 690 00:25:02,894 --> 00:25:04,929 there, but also, like, what 691 00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:07,710 what I should be thinking about taking into 692 00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:08,210 consideration 693 00:25:08,589 --> 00:25:11,230 in my day to day home personal, you 694 00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:13,890 know, career and life and what I'm doing. 695 00:25:14,109 --> 00:25:16,349 But also, what am I doing in the 696 00:25:16,349 --> 00:25:16,849 job 697 00:25:17,414 --> 00:25:19,815 that I should be second guessing or making 698 00:25:19,815 --> 00:25:21,674 sure I've thought through? Are there any loopholes 699 00:25:21,894 --> 00:25:24,695 or gaps that someone could get in or 700 00:25:24,695 --> 00:25:26,695 is already in? Right? Well, that's the thing 701 00:25:26,695 --> 00:25:28,455 because you bring most people are bringing their 702 00:25:28,455 --> 00:25:30,215 devices to work. So if you get hacked 703 00:25:30,215 --> 00:25:31,654 at the airport or get hacked at the 704 00:25:31,654 --> 00:25:32,154 hotel, 705 00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:34,359 that's a vector into your company. And a 706 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,759 lot of companies, that's where that's where the 707 00:25:36,759 --> 00:25:39,400 intrusion comes from a personal device. I mean, 708 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,160 today, it used to be people are a 709 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,680 little on and don't bring your devices. And 710 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,519 today, everybody brings their phone with them everywhere. 711 00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:47,080 Yeah. And so that is a vector into 712 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:47,900 the plant. 713 00:25:48,355 --> 00:25:50,835 And that's another reason why maybe your POC 714 00:25:50,835 --> 00:25:53,634 and HMI and SCADA system and VFDs and 715 00:25:53,634 --> 00:25:55,234 everything that you have in your network should 716 00:25:55,234 --> 00:25:57,315 only talk to a list of approved IP 717 00:25:57,315 --> 00:25:59,875 addresses and proved you know? You know? Maybe 718 00:25:59,875 --> 00:26:01,634 there should be some digital signatures there. I'm 719 00:26:01,634 --> 00:26:03,720 not saying for for certain networks, but for 720 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,480 other networks that are more wide open, like, 721 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,480 maybe you plant for a Wi Fi, maybe 722 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,759 you should be locked down a little bit 723 00:26:08,759 --> 00:26:10,440 more. Maybe it shouldn't be a great place 724 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,920 to to stream you to. But, anyways, let 725 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,359 me turn it back to you. Well and 726 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:14,839 and you, 727 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:15,900 doctor, 728 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,565 her name was doctor Marina Krotafil, And I'm 729 00:26:18,565 --> 00:26:19,384 gonna say it wrong. 730 00:26:19,924 --> 00:26:20,664 She actually 731 00:26:20,965 --> 00:26:22,805 shared a case study. Now I won't give 732 00:26:22,805 --> 00:26:24,484 all the details of the case study, but, 733 00:26:24,484 --> 00:26:27,144 essentially, is it talked through how 734 00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:29,625 even at, like, state 735 00:26:30,005 --> 00:26:30,505 sponsored 736 00:26:30,884 --> 00:26:33,144 cyber operations. So when we're talking, 737 00:26:34,029 --> 00:26:36,029 you know, we're talking maybe, like, everybody thinks, 738 00:26:36,029 --> 00:26:38,109 like, hackers are, like, you know, the the 739 00:26:38,109 --> 00:26:39,549 people that just have too much time. They 740 00:26:39,549 --> 00:26:41,710 wanna do ransomware, get money. They wanna get 741 00:26:41,710 --> 00:26:41,869 through 742 00:26:42,829 --> 00:26:44,750 it's like, you know, you think about especially 743 00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:46,430 with all the things happening in the world 744 00:26:46,430 --> 00:26:48,210 today is Mhmm. 745 00:26:48,670 --> 00:26:52,025 Countries against countries or states against states, essentially, 746 00:26:52,164 --> 00:26:54,825 that want to get in and disrupt 747 00:26:55,125 --> 00:26:58,025 the economy or disrupt and show their power 748 00:26:58,644 --> 00:26:59,865 can do so through 749 00:27:00,325 --> 00:27:03,304 cyber attacks. And she actually talked through 750 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:07,679 how attackers, especially at a state level, that 751 00:27:07,679 --> 00:27:09,299 get recruited by a state, 752 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:12,079 maybe like a Russia, you know, at first, 753 00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:15,220 like, essentially, she went through different scenarios where 754 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,365 is if a if a government official or 755 00:27:18,365 --> 00:27:20,684 government wanted to get in and learn the 756 00:27:20,684 --> 00:27:21,184 vulnerabilities 757 00:27:21,484 --> 00:27:23,024 and all that for another, 758 00:27:23,724 --> 00:27:25,184 entity or another country, 759 00:27:25,804 --> 00:27:27,565 they know how to do that. Right? They 760 00:27:27,565 --> 00:27:28,625 know how to 761 00:27:29,164 --> 00:27:29,664 essentially 762 00:27:30,204 --> 00:27:31,565 make it to where they 763 00:27:32,619 --> 00:27:35,019 they're testing their limits. Right? How long does 764 00:27:35,019 --> 00:27:36,559 it take them to get caught? 765 00:27:37,099 --> 00:27:39,019 How long does it take them to to 766 00:27:39,019 --> 00:27:41,519 make you notice that they're in your system? 767 00:27:41,579 --> 00:27:43,500 How what do you do about it? Like, 768 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:46,380 they're essentially, she gave examples in this case 769 00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:47,200 study where 770 00:27:47,785 --> 00:27:49,244 everything certain state 771 00:27:49,704 --> 00:27:53,384 sponsored cyber operations do is strategic. Right? They're 772 00:27:53,384 --> 00:27:56,265 testing their limits. They're testing their capabilities. They're 773 00:27:56,265 --> 00:27:56,765 testing 774 00:27:57,144 --> 00:28:00,184 and training up folks for when they actually 775 00:28:00,184 --> 00:28:01,809 want to do something. And I think you 776 00:28:01,809 --> 00:28:02,930 mentioned this in other, 777 00:28:03,330 --> 00:28:05,109 podcasts too that I listen to is, like, 778 00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:07,330 we gotta be cautious that people could be 779 00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:09,330 lurking. They could be in. They could be 780 00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:11,590 just not making themselves known 781 00:28:12,529 --> 00:28:13,269 in our 782 00:28:13,674 --> 00:28:16,555 critical infrastructure. And and, again, she she spun 783 00:28:16,555 --> 00:28:17,755 it in such a way that I'm not 784 00:28:17,755 --> 00:28:19,994 here to scare anybody on this podcast, but, 785 00:28:19,994 --> 00:28:21,454 essentially, just being aware 786 00:28:22,474 --> 00:28:24,575 that people are very smart, 787 00:28:25,035 --> 00:28:27,115 and we need to be smart and ahead 788 00:28:27,115 --> 00:28:28,255 of that as well. 789 00:28:28,609 --> 00:28:30,369 And that's what I think this conference allows 790 00:28:30,369 --> 00:28:32,549 us to do is it shares best practices. 791 00:28:33,170 --> 00:28:35,730 It shares that knowledge. It builds those connections. 792 00:28:35,730 --> 00:28:37,410 So now, like, you kinda mentioned, there's so 793 00:28:37,410 --> 00:28:38,230 much equipment 794 00:28:38,529 --> 00:28:40,609 that you can buy and vendors selling different 795 00:28:40,609 --> 00:28:43,365 things that have different security settings. Like, all 796 00:28:43,365 --> 00:28:46,585 those sponsors make great products. And and understanding 797 00:28:46,805 --> 00:28:48,744 what they can do, what they can't do 798 00:28:48,964 --> 00:28:49,785 helps us 799 00:28:50,244 --> 00:28:52,884 be able to protect ourselves, get ahead of 800 00:28:52,884 --> 00:28:55,205 these risks, get ahead of these potentials, and 801 00:28:55,205 --> 00:28:57,589 not be afraid. Right? It's kinda like you 802 00:28:57,589 --> 00:28:58,970 put a lock on your door 803 00:28:59,269 --> 00:29:01,109 to make sure you're not just welcoming anybody 804 00:29:01,109 --> 00:29:02,789 in, not that you're gonna plan for someone 805 00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:04,309 just to walk in your house that's not 806 00:29:04,309 --> 00:29:05,990 welcome. Right? Is we wanna make sure we're 807 00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:07,349 doing what we can, and I think that's 808 00:29:07,349 --> 00:29:09,049 what this conference really allowed 809 00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:12,005 is to know the risk out there, to 810 00:29:12,005 --> 00:29:14,565 be aware of the situations, the cyberattacks that 811 00:29:14,565 --> 00:29:16,345 have happened in in recent history, 812 00:29:16,805 --> 00:29:19,924 but also, like, what can I do as 813 00:29:19,924 --> 00:29:22,725 an end user, as a consultant, as an 814 00:29:22,725 --> 00:29:23,225 integrator, 815 00:29:23,605 --> 00:29:25,225 as a product, you know, 816 00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:28,259 manufacturer? What can I do to make a 817 00:29:28,259 --> 00:29:31,000 difference to help safeguard our OT systems 818 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:33,799 and make a difference and and protect them? 819 00:29:33,940 --> 00:29:35,779 You know, I I I restore to the 820 00:29:35,779 --> 00:29:37,380 people. They're like, well, why would they hack 821 00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:39,140 us? And it's like, you know, take a 822 00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:40,904 step back. You know, the first of all, 823 00:29:40,904 --> 00:29:42,825 these people who are working for their governments, 824 00:29:42,825 --> 00:29:45,784 whether it's The US, whether it's EU, any 825 00:29:45,784 --> 00:29:47,304 country in the world, you name it. Right. 826 00:29:47,304 --> 00:29:49,325 They all they all think that they're doing 827 00:29:49,464 --> 00:29:51,464 a patriotic thing working for their com their 828 00:29:51,464 --> 00:29:51,964 country. 829 00:29:52,265 --> 00:29:55,539 In every country, every almost virtually every country 830 00:29:55,539 --> 00:29:57,539 in the world, virtually every one of them 831 00:29:57,539 --> 00:29:59,619 have been hacked by almost every other one 832 00:29:59,619 --> 00:30:01,539 of them. Yeah. And we don't know who 833 00:30:01,539 --> 00:30:03,299 hacked for us. Right? This is the eye 834 00:30:03,299 --> 00:30:04,740 for the eye thing. Like, it's been going 835 00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:06,434 on for so long. You know, did the 836 00:30:06,434 --> 00:30:08,234 French start it? Did the Americans start it? 837 00:30:08,234 --> 00:30:10,794 Did the Russians start it? Did no. Every 838 00:30:10,794 --> 00:30:12,714 country in the world's been hacking every other 839 00:30:12,714 --> 00:30:15,034 country. There there's no tracing back to who 840 00:30:15,034 --> 00:30:17,214 started this this roller coaster of hacking, 841 00:30:17,515 --> 00:30:19,914 but everybody's perceived like the other people are 842 00:30:19,914 --> 00:30:21,480 hacking me, so I have to hack back. 843 00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:23,559 So you just have to be cognizant of 844 00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:24,059 that 845 00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:27,079 and and and understand that it may not 846 00:30:27,079 --> 00:30:28,759 be you. It may not be your company. 847 00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:30,519 It may not even be what you make 848 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:33,319 that's the target. You may just be the 849 00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:35,424 punch back for the punches they received last 850 00:30:35,424 --> 00:30:37,105 month, and you're just the only target they 851 00:30:37,105 --> 00:30:39,265 can hit. And so we we, you know, 852 00:30:39,265 --> 00:30:42,065 let's stop all the punching. Let's secure our 853 00:30:42,065 --> 00:30:44,625 facilities. So so we frustrate all of these, 854 00:30:44,625 --> 00:30:46,464 including our own, all these people who are 855 00:30:46,464 --> 00:30:49,500 trying to illegally hack into different companies and 856 00:30:49,579 --> 00:30:52,140 and cause problems like the ransomware. And, you 857 00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:53,839 know, I and and it's real. 858 00:30:54,299 --> 00:30:57,019 And, you know, it came years ago, it 859 00:30:57,019 --> 00:30:58,619 came to me. I put a SCADA server 860 00:30:58,619 --> 00:31:00,140 as a demo for my customers. I put 861 00:31:00,140 --> 00:31:01,819 it on the Internet. I was just like, 862 00:31:01,819 --> 00:31:03,339 hey, boss. Give me a cable modem. I'm 863 00:31:03,339 --> 00:31:05,279 gonna put my server on. I'm gonna demo, 864 00:31:05,474 --> 00:31:07,474 you know, web based SCADA to all my, 865 00:31:07,634 --> 00:31:09,974 to all my great customers in the area. 866 00:31:10,035 --> 00:31:11,954 And the thing was hacked within a day. 867 00:31:11,954 --> 00:31:14,035 I mean and I'm going back twenty years 868 00:31:14,035 --> 00:31:16,275 now. This is twenty years. It was hacked 869 00:31:16,275 --> 00:31:17,875 in a day. And every week, I would 870 00:31:17,875 --> 00:31:19,394 spend a couple hours trying to make it 871 00:31:19,394 --> 00:31:20,134 hack proof. 872 00:31:20,569 --> 00:31:22,490 You know? And, you know, this was before 873 00:31:22,490 --> 00:31:24,730 I even you know, firewalls were even, like, 874 00:31:24,730 --> 00:31:27,450 consideration for a small business. Right? And so, 875 00:31:27,450 --> 00:31:29,369 yes, the people are being hacked all the 876 00:31:29,369 --> 00:31:29,869 time. 877 00:31:30,170 --> 00:31:32,650 Yep. We we you know? And and we 878 00:31:32,650 --> 00:31:33,950 have to be vigilant 879 00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:36,029 against those hacks. 880 00:31:36,384 --> 00:31:37,605 And we gotta 881 00:31:37,904 --> 00:31:39,904 people are tired of me saying this. Also, 882 00:31:39,904 --> 00:31:42,384 please back up your PLC HMI SCADA systems 883 00:31:42,384 --> 00:31:43,444 and all those VFPs. 884 00:31:44,065 --> 00:31:46,384 Just in case. Stuff up just in case. 885 00:31:46,384 --> 00:31:48,304 It'll there there's so much room on your 886 00:31:48,304 --> 00:31:49,825 hard drive now. You could back it all 887 00:31:49,825 --> 00:31:51,505 up a thousand times, and you would still 888 00:31:51,505 --> 00:31:53,159 have room left over. So I like to 889 00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:55,079 Can you imagine how much money you would 890 00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:56,779 save having that backup 891 00:31:57,159 --> 00:31:59,559 ready to go instead of like you mentioned, 892 00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:01,399 downtime earlier, right, is 893 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,220 Yeah. Essentially, if if something were to happen, 894 00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:05,259 right, say, ransom 895 00:32:05,744 --> 00:32:08,224 ransomware hap whatever. Right? Is is you you 896 00:32:08,224 --> 00:32:10,085 end up saying, no. We're not paying it, 897 00:32:10,224 --> 00:32:11,444 and you lose everything. 898 00:32:12,384 --> 00:32:14,484 Is now if you had to rebuild 899 00:32:15,825 --> 00:32:18,224 all of that code and all of your 900 00:32:18,224 --> 00:32:20,700 systems and get everything back talking to each 901 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:23,099 other is I mean, I don't even wanna 902 00:32:23,099 --> 00:32:24,619 do the math. I mean, you're talking you're 903 00:32:24,619 --> 00:32:26,859 you're not you're losing revenue, just whatever you're 904 00:32:26,859 --> 00:32:28,720 producing or making with that system, 905 00:32:29,099 --> 00:32:30,400 but you're also now 906 00:32:30,779 --> 00:32:32,779 spending money to get it back to whereas 907 00:32:32,779 --> 00:32:33,919 if you had the backups 908 00:32:34,845 --> 00:32:37,005 already ready. Yes. You're still gonna have downtime. 909 00:32:37,005 --> 00:32:38,444 You're still gonna have to get everything back 910 00:32:38,444 --> 00:32:41,005 up, but you're saving all that developmental time 911 00:32:41,005 --> 00:32:43,325 to, like, redo it all, essentially. Sometimes you 912 00:32:43,325 --> 00:32:45,085 can't. There are some machines that are so 913 00:32:45,085 --> 00:32:45,585 complicated. 914 00:32:46,045 --> 00:32:46,380 Right. 915 00:32:46,859 --> 00:32:48,299 And they, you know, they may have had 916 00:32:48,299 --> 00:32:50,859 changeover. Nobody may have that file anymore. So 917 00:32:50,859 --> 00:32:52,940 take your take your own future in your 918 00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:53,599 own hands, 919 00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:54,960 back up everything, 920 00:32:55,259 --> 00:32:56,640 back it up more at once. 921 00:32:56,940 --> 00:32:58,460 Right. You know, and take it like Microsoft 922 00:32:58,460 --> 00:32:59,579 will tell you if you go to any 923 00:32:59,579 --> 00:33:00,960 type of server type of training 924 00:33:01,434 --> 00:33:03,515 or certifications, you're gonna have a copy of 925 00:33:03,515 --> 00:33:05,434 that off-site. They all cannot be on your 926 00:33:05,434 --> 00:33:07,275 site because if there's a fire where you 927 00:33:07,275 --> 00:33:09,275 store all that stuff, you don't have any 928 00:33:09,275 --> 00:33:12,315 backups anymore. So very interesting stuff and, you 929 00:33:12,315 --> 00:33:14,154 know, I hate to preach. I know the 930 00:33:14,154 --> 00:33:15,755 the I know the audience is used to 931 00:33:15,755 --> 00:33:17,549 me saying this stuff, but, but it's so 932 00:33:17,549 --> 00:33:19,710 important. I I I've had multiple customers 933 00:33:20,269 --> 00:33:23,069 well, former customers, colleagues, audience members tell me 934 00:33:23,069 --> 00:33:25,649 about their horror stories where they had ransomware, 935 00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:27,869 and it's just it truly is devastating to 936 00:33:27,869 --> 00:33:29,009 the companies. Right. 937 00:33:29,470 --> 00:33:31,424 And it really, like, I mean, it hurts 938 00:33:31,424 --> 00:33:34,065 people's paychecks because, you know, there's no raises 939 00:33:34,065 --> 00:33:36,085 that year, no bonuses that year, 940 00:33:36,625 --> 00:33:39,265 sometimes layoffs. So Oh, yes. It kills the 941 00:33:39,265 --> 00:33:41,284 culture. I mean, truly. And 942 00:33:41,984 --> 00:33:43,204 and that's where I 943 00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:45,509 and I I think sometimes we take for 944 00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:47,190 granted, kinda like you mentioned at the beginning. 945 00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:48,650 We put our blinders on. 946 00:33:49,109 --> 00:33:51,029 We just do our job. We think we're 947 00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:52,950 doing our job, and you don't think about 948 00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:54,710 all these things. And I think that's the 949 00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:56,710 the benefit of groups like this. Right? Your 950 00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:59,664 podcast, bringing a community together to talk about 951 00:33:59,664 --> 00:34:01,444 things like this, lessons learned, 952 00:34:01,904 --> 00:34:03,825 things that I've learned in my career, my 953 00:34:03,825 --> 00:34:06,224 product. Like, you're getting knowledge out there, and 954 00:34:06,224 --> 00:34:08,065 that's exactly what ISA is trying to do 955 00:34:08,065 --> 00:34:09,744 as well. It's like, why do we all 956 00:34:09,744 --> 00:34:11,905 have to learn by the the hard way 957 00:34:11,905 --> 00:34:14,400 or learn by things happening when you have 958 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,320 all these resources? That's what I think frustrates 959 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,760 me the most sometimes is people will be 960 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,460 like, well, I didn't know that. 961 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,359 Hey, buddy. I just wanted to jump in 962 00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:22,800 here and pay some bills and tell you 963 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,079 about my training at the Automation School, my 964 00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:27,380 in person training 965 00:34:27,795 --> 00:34:29,234 that I do right here in my offices 966 00:34:29,234 --> 00:34:30,775 in the beautiful Berkshires. 967 00:34:31,234 --> 00:34:32,994 So many great things to do out here 968 00:34:32,994 --> 00:34:36,275 in Western Massachusetts. We're about an hour away 969 00:34:36,275 --> 00:34:38,434 from Albany, New York. And one of the 970 00:34:38,434 --> 00:34:40,034 things you're gonna find with my training that 971 00:34:40,034 --> 00:34:42,355 you're not gonna find with, the big vendors 972 00:34:42,355 --> 00:34:44,309 is, you know, I can kinda customize it 973 00:34:44,309 --> 00:34:46,070 for you. Right? So, you know, if you 974 00:34:46,070 --> 00:34:48,390 wanna do, like, a day of, Allen Bradley 975 00:34:48,390 --> 00:34:50,390 PLCs and a day of Siemens PLCs, I 976 00:34:50,390 --> 00:34:51,530 can do that for you. 977 00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:52,329 Also, 978 00:34:53,269 --> 00:34:55,605 you know, we teach not just using the 979 00:34:55,764 --> 00:34:58,244 the trainer trainer boxes, but we also teach 980 00:34:58,244 --> 00:34:59,065 using factory 981 00:34:59,844 --> 00:35:02,164 IO so that even the most advanced students 982 00:35:02,164 --> 00:35:04,085 should have a full day's worth of work 983 00:35:04,085 --> 00:35:05,925 or two or three full days depending on 984 00:35:05,925 --> 00:35:06,984 what you wanna do. 985 00:35:07,445 --> 00:35:09,539 And you're gonna see over the coming weeks, 986 00:35:09,619 --> 00:35:12,019 I'm adding even more hardware to the training 987 00:35:12,019 --> 00:35:14,739 room. I'm, creating all of these one by 988 00:35:14,739 --> 00:35:16,980 one demo boards that I'll be showing you 989 00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:19,380 guys in on the, the lunchtime show that 990 00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:20,039 I'm doing, 991 00:35:20,420 --> 00:35:20,820 where, 992 00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:24,375 I'm bringing in things like Flex IO, Point 993 00:35:24,375 --> 00:35:24,875 IO, 994 00:35:25,414 --> 00:35:28,614 you know, seventeen sixty nine distributed IO, fifty 995 00:35:28,614 --> 00:35:31,574 sixty nine distributed IO. All these things that, 996 00:35:31,574 --> 00:35:32,614 you know, if you go to some of 997 00:35:32,614 --> 00:35:33,974 the place where they just bought, you know, 998 00:35:33,974 --> 00:35:36,555 APLCs and APCs and say, here's a manual, 999 00:35:36,929 --> 00:35:38,630 you're not gonna get the same experience. 1000 00:35:39,250 --> 00:35:41,010 So in any case, if you have any 1001 00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:43,730 needs for in person training, maybe you don't 1002 00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:46,289 wanna send your folks off to the factory 1003 00:35:46,289 --> 00:35:47,489 for $5,000 1004 00:35:47,489 --> 00:35:49,409 a pop and have them gone for a 1005 00:35:49,409 --> 00:35:51,625 week, get in touch with me, and you 1006 00:35:51,625 --> 00:35:53,784 can see all these details about what I'm 1007 00:35:53,784 --> 00:35:55,784 doing over at the automationschool.com 1008 00:35:55,784 --> 00:35:57,085 forward slash live. 1009 00:35:57,464 --> 00:35:58,764 That is where I have 1010 00:35:59,224 --> 00:36:01,864 not only information about my in person training, 1011 00:36:01,864 --> 00:36:03,464 I have pictures of the training room, I 1012 00:36:03,464 --> 00:36:05,440 got pictures of the building. I also have 1013 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,679 all the local hotels. Within three miles, we 1014 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:09,140 have all of the big hotels 1015 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,760 as well as all of the kind of 1016 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,280 fun stuff you can do in the Berkshires 1017 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,640 when you come out here, like visit the 1018 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,019 Norman Rockwell Museum, 1019 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,699 climb Mount Greylock, 1020 00:36:18,054 --> 00:36:19,735 and there's so many other things to do 1021 00:36:19,735 --> 00:36:21,574 as well out here. And a lot of 1022 00:36:21,574 --> 00:36:24,795 historical places too, like Susan b Anthony's home 1023 00:36:24,934 --> 00:36:27,815 or Herman Melville's home and so on. So 1024 00:36:27,815 --> 00:36:29,094 with that, I just wanted to tell you 1025 00:36:29,094 --> 00:36:30,855 about my in person training that I'm offering 1026 00:36:30,855 --> 00:36:33,239 here in my office. And now let's jump 1027 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,260 right back into this week's show. 1028 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:37,400 And I'm like, but you gotta, like, you 1029 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,320 gotta go find that out. Right? You gotta 1030 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,179 ingrain yourself in a community 1031 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,640 that knows more than you do and admit 1032 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,480 you're not the smartest person in the room. 1033 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,894 Right? And and learn from the group. Right? 1034 00:36:47,894 --> 00:36:50,375 Learn from the greater good that is really 1035 00:36:50,375 --> 00:36:52,534 trying to help make make the world a 1036 00:36:52,534 --> 00:36:53,974 better place. I know it's a a tagline, 1037 00:36:53,974 --> 00:36:56,135 but, essentially, that's true. Right? Like, you're trying 1038 00:36:56,135 --> 00:36:57,675 to get the automation community 1039 00:36:58,135 --> 00:37:00,534 more knowledge, more information, and that's what ISA 1040 00:37:00,534 --> 00:37:02,670 is trying to do. And I think it's 1041 00:37:02,670 --> 00:37:04,349 nice to know that you don't have to 1042 00:37:04,349 --> 00:37:05,170 do it alone 1043 00:37:05,710 --> 00:37:07,550 in the sense of whether you're starting out 1044 00:37:07,550 --> 00:37:09,309 in automation and you have no clue what 1045 00:37:09,309 --> 00:37:10,609 you just signed up for, 1046 00:37:10,989 --> 00:37:13,869 or you're in it. You're now charged with 1047 00:37:13,869 --> 00:37:15,889 making sure the OT system's safe 1048 00:37:16,505 --> 00:37:18,125 is knowing that there's 1049 00:37:18,425 --> 00:37:20,125 conferences out there that specialize 1050 00:37:20,505 --> 00:37:21,485 in OT cybersecurity 1051 00:37:22,344 --> 00:37:25,565 as well as, like, standards that tell you 1052 00:37:25,625 --> 00:37:27,704 how to make sure that you're protecting your 1053 00:37:27,704 --> 00:37:29,864 OT cyber, you know, security assets and all 1054 00:37:29,864 --> 00:37:32,699 that stuff, but also training courses. So I 1055 00:37:32,699 --> 00:37:34,860 think Scott mentioned this last year, but we 1056 00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:37,019 did the same thing this year where we 1057 00:37:37,019 --> 00:37:40,219 hosted two training courses with this conference that 1058 00:37:40,219 --> 00:37:41,980 you could sign up for. One of them 1059 00:37:41,980 --> 00:37:45,094 even sold out, and that was using the 1060 00:37:45,235 --> 00:37:48,114 IEC ISA six two four four three standard, 1061 00:37:48,114 --> 00:37:50,034 like how to use it to secure your 1062 00:37:50,034 --> 00:37:50,855 control systems. 1063 00:37:51,315 --> 00:37:53,795 Literally a two day course sold out. Full 1064 00:37:53,795 --> 00:37:55,255 house packed room. 1065 00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:56,230 Marco 1066 00:37:56,849 --> 00:37:57,349 Aiola? 1067 00:37:58,049 --> 00:37:59,650 I can't ever say his last name. Sorry, 1068 00:37:59,650 --> 00:38:00,789 Marco, if you're listening. 1069 00:38:01,489 --> 00:38:03,829 He is great if you've never met him, 1070 00:38:03,969 --> 00:38:06,210 but he has tons of knowledge. He he 1071 00:38:06,210 --> 00:38:08,210 trained that or taught that course this during 1072 00:38:08,210 --> 00:38:10,289 this conference in Belgium. So if you're not 1073 00:38:10,289 --> 00:38:11,144 sure where to 1074 00:38:11,704 --> 00:38:13,224 start and you're just like, I just need 1075 00:38:13,224 --> 00:38:14,824 to, like, wrap my head around what this 1076 00:38:14,824 --> 00:38:16,525 standard is, maybe reading, 1077 00:38:17,144 --> 00:38:18,985 you know, a standard is not what you 1078 00:38:18,985 --> 00:38:20,585 love to do, maybe you want someone to 1079 00:38:20,585 --> 00:38:22,105 teach you what's in there and how to 1080 00:38:22,105 --> 00:38:24,505 use it, that's the place to start, as 1081 00:38:24,505 --> 00:38:28,360 well as, Steve Mustard taught, assessing the cybersecurity 1082 00:38:29,619 --> 00:38:30,760 of new and existing 1083 00:38:31,140 --> 00:38:34,579 systems. So industrial con industrial automation control systems. 1084 00:38:34,579 --> 00:38:36,680 So Steve Mustard's also been on an episode. 1085 00:38:37,140 --> 00:38:38,760 He taught a a class 1086 00:38:39,114 --> 00:38:41,275 as well at Brussels. And so I just 1087 00:38:41,275 --> 00:38:43,454 wanted to encourage everyone that is listening, 1088 00:38:43,914 --> 00:38:45,855 is you don't have to be an automation 1089 00:38:45,994 --> 00:38:48,335 professional alone. You don't have to do 1090 00:38:48,715 --> 00:38:50,555 figure out how to just make sure you're 1091 00:38:50,555 --> 00:38:53,610 safe and secure alone. Get involved in communities 1092 00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:57,030 like this podcast, like ISA. Find those people 1093 00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:59,750 that have walked it, have learned from mistakes, 1094 00:38:59,750 --> 00:39:00,650 have done things 1095 00:39:00,949 --> 00:39:03,269 because there's resources out there that you can 1096 00:39:03,269 --> 00:39:03,769 find 1097 00:39:04,164 --> 00:39:07,125 and get involved in, whether that's discussion boards, 1098 00:39:07,125 --> 00:39:08,424 conferences, standards, 1099 00:39:08,884 --> 00:39:09,384 training, 1100 00:39:10,085 --> 00:39:11,625 all of the above, podcasts. 1101 00:39:12,565 --> 00:39:14,164 I just I think that's where I truly 1102 00:39:14,324 --> 00:39:15,525 people are like, why are you involved in 1103 00:39:15,525 --> 00:39:17,444 ICA? I'm like, why wouldn't I be? Like, 1104 00:39:17,444 --> 00:39:19,650 it's like you just it's so much knowledge. 1105 00:39:19,650 --> 00:39:20,550 It's so 1106 00:39:21,329 --> 00:39:22,769 take it take it with what I I 1107 00:39:22,769 --> 00:39:24,449 say as I just ask people to get 1108 00:39:24,449 --> 00:39:26,449 involved. That that's what I'm saying in in 1109 00:39:26,449 --> 00:39:28,690 any automation community. Yeah. And if you're an 1110 00:39:28,690 --> 00:39:31,764 engineering manager out there, consider, you know, be 1111 00:39:31,764 --> 00:39:33,844 in the first take the first step. Get 1112 00:39:33,844 --> 00:39:36,405 yourself involved with your local chapter. Right? And 1113 00:39:36,405 --> 00:39:37,925 maybe it is an ISA. Right? 1114 00:39:38,324 --> 00:39:39,844 If you don't have an ISA local, there's 1115 00:39:39,844 --> 00:39:42,264 probably another another similar organization, 1116 00:39:43,730 --> 00:39:45,650 and get involved. And if you find it 1117 00:39:45,650 --> 00:39:47,889 valuable, right, that whatever it is, an hour 1118 00:39:47,889 --> 00:39:49,809 or a week, an hour a month, then, 1119 00:39:49,809 --> 00:39:51,409 you know, encourage the people who work for 1120 00:39:51,409 --> 00:39:54,049 you to also get involved. It's it's yes. 1121 00:39:54,049 --> 00:39:55,190 Some of them may find 1122 00:39:55,889 --> 00:39:57,329 may network a little bit and find a 1123 00:39:57,329 --> 00:39:59,224 new job, but then again, you may find 1124 00:39:59,224 --> 00:40:02,105 people to fill positions you're open. So but 1125 00:40:02,105 --> 00:40:02,824 it did just, 1126 00:40:03,305 --> 00:40:05,485 you know, this this this industrial automation, 1127 00:40:06,585 --> 00:40:08,125 industry is so tiny. 1128 00:40:08,664 --> 00:40:11,005 Right? To tip to, like, health and fitness, 1129 00:40:11,065 --> 00:40:13,065 right, or or all those type of things 1130 00:40:13,065 --> 00:40:15,210 that that, you know, we're we're at a 1131 00:40:15,210 --> 00:40:17,769 disadvantage as far as, you know, just be 1132 00:40:17,769 --> 00:40:19,130 able to have, you know, everybody on the 1133 00:40:19,130 --> 00:40:20,890 corner. Had there's a gym on every corner 1134 00:40:20,890 --> 00:40:22,730 or there's Yes. You know, a a maker 1135 00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:24,909 shop on every corner. Well, with industrial automation, 1136 00:40:25,369 --> 00:40:26,730 you know, a lot of times, we can't 1137 00:40:26,730 --> 00:40:29,135 visit each other's facilities just because of intellectual 1138 00:40:29,355 --> 00:40:32,394 property. So so consider that, and there's some 1139 00:40:32,394 --> 00:40:34,394 great places online, plcs.net, 1140 00:40:34,394 --> 00:40:35,855 misterplc.com, 1141 00:40:36,474 --> 00:40:38,875 and other forms online. We get the ISA 1142 00:40:38,875 --> 00:40:41,215 and other organizations. So, yeah, I definitely, 1143 00:40:42,369 --> 00:40:44,210 confirm that too. We wanna we wanna encourage 1144 00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:45,809 people to get involved. And I know a 1145 00:40:45,809 --> 00:40:47,170 lot of folks are like me. You got 1146 00:40:47,170 --> 00:40:49,570 family, you got kids, grandkids. You're just busy 1147 00:40:49,570 --> 00:40:51,089 all the time. But if you're able to, 1148 00:40:51,889 --> 00:40:53,329 and and I live in the boonies, but 1149 00:40:53,329 --> 00:40:54,710 if you're able to, get involved. 1150 00:40:55,085 --> 00:40:58,125 So I I definitely encourage that. Yeah. Exactly. 1151 00:40:58,125 --> 00:40:59,724 And I have I have two boys on 1152 00:40:59,724 --> 00:41:01,964 my own, two and six. And the the 1153 00:41:01,964 --> 00:41:04,525 joke around ISA is that they're the youngest 1154 00:41:04,525 --> 00:41:06,924 members because they are going to be I 1155 00:41:06,924 --> 00:41:09,719 literally have bought merch with ISA on it 1156 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,320 for them because it's just one of those 1157 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,239 things that the it it it does take 1158 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,239 a village to be part of something like 1159 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,920 this and and try to really make a 1160 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:17,420 difference. 1161 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,559 So I do wanna go back a step. 1162 00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:20,760 You mentioned this too, and I think it's 1163 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,420 so valuable. 1164 00:41:22,194 --> 00:41:24,934 I joined ISA because my manager 1165 00:41:25,714 --> 00:41:27,414 found the value and said, 1166 00:41:27,954 --> 00:41:29,414 you should join ISA 1167 00:41:29,795 --> 00:41:32,514 because it will skyrocket your career. You'll learn 1168 00:41:32,514 --> 00:41:35,474 from other professionals. You'll network. You'll get up 1169 00:41:35,474 --> 00:41:36,614 to speed faster 1170 00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:38,970 in this type of industry 1171 00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:42,390 with if you didn't. Right? And I can 1172 00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:44,230 tell you as as working for the same 1173 00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:45,930 company now for thirteen years, 1174 00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:49,190 that that hasn't been a true statement. Is 1175 00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:50,489 is it truly 1176 00:41:51,485 --> 00:41:54,045 enabled me to, one, get involved in this 1177 00:41:54,045 --> 00:41:56,465 industry, grow from an I and c engineer, 1178 00:41:57,005 --> 00:41:59,804 you know, putting in big EPC projects, engineer 1179 00:41:59,804 --> 00:42:03,425 procurement construction projects, you know, midstream refineries to 1180 00:42:03,804 --> 00:42:05,425 now managing automation 1181 00:42:05,804 --> 00:42:06,304 projects 1182 00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:08,869 for my clients. And it I I I 1183 00:42:08,869 --> 00:42:11,510 truly credit getting involved in the automation community 1184 00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:14,069 because, again, it's a small world. I've literally 1185 00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:15,829 met people across The United States that are 1186 00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:17,750 like, I feel like I've gotten an I 1187 00:42:17,909 --> 00:42:19,750 like, an email from you. Like, are you 1188 00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:22,164 part of ISA? Like, it's truly, like, you 1189 00:42:22,164 --> 00:42:24,804 don't realize how that, like, comes full circle. 1190 00:42:24,804 --> 00:42:26,724 You're like, yes, I am. And, like, what 1191 00:42:26,804 --> 00:42:28,405 how do you and how are you involved? 1192 00:42:28,405 --> 00:42:30,184 So I'll just say, I totally agree. 1193 00:42:30,804 --> 00:42:32,405 And I do want to say, if you 1194 00:42:32,405 --> 00:42:33,464 go to events, 1195 00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:36,119 is you might start you might be the 1196 00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,840 first to hear something that's in the works 1197 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,079 or that's starting. So I did wanna mention 1198 00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:42,440 in here, because I think it's it's a 1199 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,859 really cool, initiative that's rolling out, 1200 00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:47,659 is our group ISA Secure, 1201 00:42:48,375 --> 00:42:50,534 which, again, focuses on six two four four 1202 00:42:50,534 --> 00:42:51,034 three, 1203 00:42:51,414 --> 00:42:53,514 is they're rolling out the industrial 1204 00:42:53,894 --> 00:42:56,394 automation control system security 1205 00:42:56,695 --> 00:42:57,914 assurance program 1206 00:42:58,295 --> 00:43:00,295 this fall. So there was a session on 1207 00:43:00,295 --> 00:43:02,920 it at the conference to announce it, and 1208 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:03,880 there's a whole, 1209 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,960 flyer on it. You can find it at 1210 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,420 isasecure.org. 1211 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,800 What it's doing is it's kinda coming full 1212 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,700 circle. Right? Is ISA developed a standard. 1213 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,739 They then made training for the standard. 1214 00:43:16,295 --> 00:43:18,775 They then, you know, essentially said, okay. What 1215 00:43:18,775 --> 00:43:20,695 else can we do? Okay. Let's do ISA 1216 00:43:20,695 --> 00:43:22,715 secure and really, like, certify 1217 00:43:23,175 --> 00:43:25,494 devices and and things that that fall as 1218 00:43:25,494 --> 00:43:27,255 ISA secure. They're doing what they should be 1219 00:43:27,255 --> 00:43:27,755 doing. 1220 00:43:28,055 --> 00:43:30,150 And now it's saying, now let's 1221 00:43:30,449 --> 00:43:32,150 offer a site assessment 1222 00:43:32,530 --> 00:43:33,030 program 1223 00:43:33,489 --> 00:43:36,230 to where we will validate or essentially 1224 00:43:37,090 --> 00:43:39,570 not prove, but essentially, they're gonna say, yes. 1225 00:43:39,570 --> 00:43:41,730 You are following what you can do for 1226 00:43:41,730 --> 00:43:43,349 six 2443. 1227 00:43:43,704 --> 00:43:45,864 And so it's gonna roll out this fall, 1228 00:43:45,864 --> 00:43:47,464 so more details to come. Like I said, 1229 00:43:47,464 --> 00:43:49,065 there's a two page flyer on it. It 1230 00:43:49,065 --> 00:43:52,264 goes through different stakeholder benefits depending on, are 1231 00:43:52,264 --> 00:43:54,284 you an asset owner? Are you an insurance 1232 00:43:54,344 --> 00:43:54,844 underwriter? 1233 00:43:55,144 --> 00:43:56,344 Are you, you know, an end you you 1234 00:43:56,344 --> 00:43:57,625 know, I said end user, but you know 1235 00:43:57,625 --> 00:43:59,159 what I mean. It essentially 1236 00:44:00,099 --> 00:44:02,340 is it kinda lays out that they're going 1237 00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:04,099 to come in and say, yes. You are 1238 00:44:04,099 --> 00:44:07,079 being compliant with 62443 1239 00:44:07,539 --> 00:44:10,659 as the person that, you know, wrote 62443 1240 00:44:10,659 --> 00:44:12,980 is essentially kind of validating that through this 1241 00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:13,825 new, it's called 1242 00:44:14,365 --> 00:44:14,865 ACSSA. 1243 00:44:15,244 --> 00:44:17,025 We love acronyms in ISA, 1244 00:44:17,405 --> 00:44:19,485 and control systems love acronyms. So we had 1245 00:44:19,485 --> 00:44:20,945 to fit the the part there. 1246 00:44:21,485 --> 00:44:23,005 So all to say, I think it's good 1247 00:44:23,005 --> 00:44:25,325 to join events because they're the first ones 1248 00:44:25,325 --> 00:44:25,905 to know. 1249 00:44:26,250 --> 00:44:28,730 I learned that at the conference. So it's 1250 00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:31,050 essentially it's like you're always finding out what's 1251 00:44:31,050 --> 00:44:32,030 coming ahead 1252 00:44:32,409 --> 00:44:34,090 that you can be on the lookout for, 1253 00:44:34,090 --> 00:44:36,329 what can help you instead of going down 1254 00:44:36,329 --> 00:44:38,170 a rabbit hole that you didn't even realize 1255 00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:40,704 this was coming into play. So That's awesome. 1256 00:44:40,704 --> 00:44:42,945 That's awesome. Was there anything else you wanted 1257 00:44:42,945 --> 00:44:44,224 to share with us about the event? I 1258 00:44:44,224 --> 00:44:46,144 know we covered a lot of ground already. 1259 00:44:46,144 --> 00:44:47,744 Yeah. But were there other things that you 1260 00:44:47,744 --> 00:44:49,744 wanted to talk about? The only thing I 1261 00:44:49,744 --> 00:44:51,824 wanted to say was, I know I mentioned 1262 00:44:51,824 --> 00:44:54,720 this before, but I would say get involved 1263 00:44:55,019 --> 00:44:57,579 at a conference that maybe is overseas if 1264 00:44:57,579 --> 00:44:59,900 you ever get the opportunity. Next year, it's 1265 00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:01,119 going to be in Prague, 1266 00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:03,820 Czech Republic, also in the month of June. 1267 00:45:03,820 --> 00:45:06,059 You'll find all the details coming out, on 1268 00:45:06,059 --> 00:45:06,800 our website, 1269 00:45:07,099 --> 00:45:09,684 o t c s, for OT cybersecurity, 1270 00:45:10,625 --> 00:45:11,125 summit, 1271 00:45:11,824 --> 00:45:13,364 .isa.org. 1272 00:45:13,664 --> 00:45:15,824 And I I want to just reiterate that 1273 00:45:15,824 --> 00:45:16,724 you really do 1274 00:45:17,025 --> 00:45:19,505 build that diverse connections. You build confidence if 1275 00:45:19,505 --> 00:45:21,025 you're doing it the right way. You get 1276 00:45:21,025 --> 00:45:22,885 the knowledge if you essentially, 1277 00:45:23,619 --> 00:45:24,359 you know, 1278 00:45:24,659 --> 00:45:26,339 needed more knowledge on what to do to 1279 00:45:26,339 --> 00:45:28,420 secure your OT assets. So I I just 1280 00:45:28,420 --> 00:45:30,260 think going to a conference like this really 1281 00:45:30,260 --> 00:45:32,980 builds that community, that network, and that confidence. 1282 00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:34,980 And so I encourage you all to join, 1283 00:45:34,980 --> 00:45:36,820 but, essentially, I think you should look at 1284 00:45:36,820 --> 00:45:38,820 our pictures on our website. It makes it 1285 00:45:38,820 --> 00:45:40,534 look like you missed out. I will say 1286 00:45:40,534 --> 00:45:41,654 it was a lot of fun. I was 1287 00:45:41,654 --> 00:45:42,795 so glad to join. 1288 00:45:43,174 --> 00:45:44,614 But I do thank you, Sean, for letting 1289 00:45:44,614 --> 00:45:46,534 me be here today. No. And it's great 1290 00:45:46,534 --> 00:45:48,855 to hear what, ISA is doing. You guys 1291 00:45:48,855 --> 00:45:51,574 do so much. And I know this, this 1292 00:45:51,574 --> 00:45:54,510 security summit, OT security summit, or cyber summit 1293 00:45:54,829 --> 00:45:56,909 is a big part and and and touches 1294 00:45:56,909 --> 00:45:59,469 on a very important aspect of what, the 1295 00:45:59,469 --> 00:46:01,550 audience the people in the audience do on 1296 00:46:01,550 --> 00:46:04,269 a regular basis. And, we love getting updates 1297 00:46:04,269 --> 00:46:05,469 from you guys. Maybe we can get you 1298 00:46:05,469 --> 00:46:06,989 back in a few months to talk about, 1299 00:46:07,550 --> 00:46:09,230 some maybe something else you guys are working 1300 00:46:09,230 --> 00:46:11,934 on. But, in any case, we should that. 1301 00:46:11,994 --> 00:46:14,094 Yeah. I really appreciate you coming on today 1302 00:46:14,235 --> 00:46:16,315 and, bringing us up to speed on the 1303 00:46:16,315 --> 00:46:17,054 the summit. 1304 00:46:17,515 --> 00:46:19,434 Well, thank you, Sean. I really appreciate you 1305 00:46:19,434 --> 00:46:21,434 and your community. Well, I hope you enjoyed 1306 00:46:21,434 --> 00:46:23,114 that episode, and I wanna thank Ashley for 1307 00:46:23,114 --> 00:46:24,494 coming on the show and talking 1308 00:46:24,980 --> 00:46:25,799 OT cybersecurity 1309 00:46:26,260 --> 00:46:28,599 with us. It sounds like a great opportunity 1310 00:46:28,659 --> 00:46:30,819 to go to this, event if you especially 1311 00:46:30,819 --> 00:46:33,719 if your company has, offices in Europe. 1312 00:46:34,099 --> 00:46:35,699 It's not something that I think I could 1313 00:46:35,699 --> 00:46:37,619 do as a self employed person here in 1314 00:46:37,619 --> 00:46:40,324 The US, but, definitely, any of you folks 1315 00:46:40,324 --> 00:46:42,885 out there who are, you know, working with 1316 00:46:42,885 --> 00:46:45,364 your European counterparts, maybe going to SPS over 1317 00:46:45,364 --> 00:46:47,364 there, this may be a trip you may 1318 00:46:47,364 --> 00:46:49,445 wanna consider. And, of course, please check out 1319 00:46:49,445 --> 00:46:51,670 the ISA. They're a great organization, 1320 00:46:51,970 --> 00:46:54,150 and we love having them on the show. 1321 00:46:54,369 --> 00:46:55,990 I also wanna thank our sponsor, 1322 00:46:56,530 --> 00:46:57,970 the automationschool.com. 1323 00:46:57,970 --> 00:47:01,010 If you know anybody looking for PLC, HMI, 1324 00:47:01,010 --> 00:47:03,730 or SCADA training, whether it be in person 1325 00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:05,030 right here in this office 1326 00:47:05,405 --> 00:47:08,784 or it'd be online, please, contact me directly 1327 00:47:08,844 --> 00:47:10,525 at theautomationschool.com. 1328 00:47:10,525 --> 00:47:12,445 You'll see all my contact links up at 1329 00:47:12,445 --> 00:47:14,284 the top of the site. And with that, 1330 00:47:14,284 --> 00:47:16,204 I wanna wish you all good health and 1331 00:47:16,204 --> 00:47:18,224 happiness. And until next time, my friends, 1332 00:47:19,085 --> 00:47:19,585 peace.