And now, the street photography magazine podcast with
your host, Bob Patterson.
Hello, and welcome back to the Street photography
magazine podcast.
I'm Bob Patterson Publisher of Street photography magazine.
And with us today in this episode is
Russell Banks from Windsor,
Colorado and Russell
He's a lifelong
street photographer.
He
studied under Gary Grand during Winter grant's time
at the University of Texas.
And he's a world traveler
and an Avid Cruiser.
So Russell uses his street photography skills and
style to document
there's sometimes
bizarre life and culture,
onboard cruise ships.
And in the process has created some very
interesting work, which has landed him, has landed
him 2 solo
exhibitions of his work. In the May 20
24 issue of Street photography magazine, we published
an article titled floating world, By Russell all
about the work he's created in this project.
If you were subscriber to Street photography magazine,
and you haven't seen this article.
I recommend you go have a look because
I think you'll find it very interesting
and inspiring. So, Russell,
thanks for joining us. Now, thanks, Bob. It's
terrific to be here.
Well we're awesome before we really get into
the
nitty gritty of your work. Much you just
tell us a little bit about yours. Self
and, you know, how you came to be
doing street photography on ships.
Well, I I started out a lot of
folks as a kid with a camera. I
had up in West Texas
and had a a brownie bullet was just
a point in shoot little camera. A had
no controls, no flash.
You
just,
you know, fed the film through it and
push the button.
I played around with that obviously, and had
fun with it, but,
obviously, it was just
just a kid, you know, my dad would
pull out
a codec re A3C at the time,
which was a very nice
kodak camera back when there was a period
when kodak
had some, camera bodies made for them, I
think in Germany that had a schneider lens
on it.
And he pull that outfit at vacations and
Christmas and stuff and mostly shoot slides. I
don't think this most of the C slides
I don't know if ever shot prints,
print film.
Anyway, got into high school,
took a course that had actual real dark
room,
saved up my money and got a Tech
spot mat, a camera made back in the
days when they still had screw on lenses.
And I go around shooting friends. Hanging out
some trips around the area,
with my high school rock band,
and
you know, just black and white, just
just whatever occurred to me, just fund things.
I was also into literature and bride. So,
when I started at the University of Texas
at Off, Austin, I started as an English
major.
I was still interested in photography and then
discovered there were photography courses and the journalism
department.
So I started taking a few classes there
to qualify for getting into the
photography classes,
those included news writing and editing.
So I began to see the blending,
of my interest in both photography and writing.
Also, in Austin,
I saw our real musicians could do. So
I sell my Gibson guitar and Fend amp
and bought an nikon icon f and a
few lenses.
So at that point, I changed my major
to journalism with the concentration in photo journalism,
it only contain.
4 photography courses over 2 years, but they
were educating journalists.
And under that broad umbrella, you could do
concentrating writing or photography.
So
they wanted to give journalism majors a broad
base of knowledge,
and we were required to take elective.
For many other departments. So I took political
science, astronomy, soc sociology,
psychology, geography,
a studio art, art history, visual
communication.
And then in my senior year,
which was 19 73,
I guess,
Russell lee,
the the Russell lee from the,
farm security
administration work working with Roy Striker,
He retired from the art department,
and
comes Gary Win grant.
And I... Unfortunately, I never got to take
a course. Under Russell Lee,
but I did was able to get into
a class with Gary Win grand.
As I was finishing up my degree there,
it was kind of a busy time. So
I wasn't able to put a whole lot
of effort into the class.
But that class format,
it was a
discussion type of, format. So
the students came in with their prints from
the pre... Or prince from work they've done
in the previous week,
stuck them up on a Bulletin board that
kinda wrapped all the way around the room.
And then he would walk around,
talking about things that he noted and kind
of lead a discussion and some things, you
know, he said, yeah, this is working really
well or there in other ways, he'd see
something that it wasn't working so well and
we talk about what wasn't working.
And,
just a lot of that
sort of discussion,
it was great for him because he didn't
have to do any class. Up. He just
showed up. And talked, which, I guess is
kind of a christie deal, you know, But
he wanted to shoot in Texas.
So,
I've absorbed a lot though that's been slowly
revealed you know, as I've worked over the
years.
I can't point to any particular thing, but
just a way of thinking about photography and
being in the moment,
And just getting out there in a situation
and just kind of having your end your
antenna up
being aware of what else going around you,
anticipating
situations
and just trying to be at the right
place at the right.
You know, right time and just work your
tail off to
get what you can, you know, what you
can capture.
I guess,
probably in the early nineties
93, I think when we took our first
cruise,
my wife was a a nurse working in
critical care.
So she worked her tail off and wanted
to take good vacations, you know?
And so we
did a cruise then and
then occasionally
took a cruise, did mostly land cruises and
things for,
many Years. We do
exotic places like, you know, India and South
Africa and China and
and all,
And
of course, my camera was at my side
all the time. They on, It was there
it was just
a visual feast. You know know, us going
through a different culture like that this. Sure.
Everything just
is jumping out, at I mean,
But
we
find finally, we both re retired in about
in 2013.
And like you said, we really kicked up
the cruising.
After we retired, we we did a lot
before
But then when, you know, when we didn't
have to coordinate with time off from jobs
and all,
we could just kinda jump on deals, and
did a lot of cruising, on a lot
of different lines. We've built up or, you
know,
status on a variety of where we get
little perks and stuff. Yeah free laundry or
things like that. Mh. Little little little amenities
that make it easier.
But
yeah. After a while,
I'd I it was getting
a little bored on the,
especially on the days at sea or if
it was a port, that was kind of
blonde, and we've been to before a few
times in there. You had to if you
do those Caribbean cruises,
you you hit the same ports
often, and you've been there and they weren't
that great in the first place. So sometimes,
you know, you you... You don't go out
for very long if at all,
and
I just said, well, I gotta start doing
something creative on these ships and see what
I can see what I can do. So
I started...
Walking around the decks with a camera
and just kinda shooting in the sort of
a street style that I knew,
looking for people
in these
unusual in this unusual setting
because it's really it's really kind of a
bizarre setting with these rails and water in
the background and the unique
kind of a nautical
architecture that ships have. They're they're in multi
layers, a lot of times, the exterior decks
are lots of stairs going up and down,
so it's a dynamic environment. You can look
up at say you can, look down on
scenes, you know, And
and and they just have their own weird
culture bizarre is a perfect...
Yeah. Perfect
description. Yeah.
A a lot of your photos are just
people laying around.
On deck. Something that drives me crazy. I
just can't sit around to do nothing like
that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we... But but you've
got some great compositions
and you just the positions of things.
Oh, anyway, I'm sorry. I'm
taking you off tracks. No. No. That's that's
fine.
I
I... So I started doing that. You know,
shooting the pictures and
the first cruise I did it. You know
I got a couple of pictures that I
thought were kind of interesting and kind of,
you know, finish those,
which just kinda means getting processed and photoshop
to kinda look like I want, and,
back at that back then, I
I didn't really print them, you know.
So much. So I just kinda I was
seeing where it went.
And then the next cruise, I got a
few more and then a few more and
kinda got a feeling for what I was
looking for.
And kind of like... And I guess it's
probably my appreciation of
of a lot of what
When did was I was
trying to capture
moments,
you know, when when there's some
gestures
or a situation or some ambiguity in the
scene to where you're really not sure what's
going on,
And
I I think that kind of leaves the
place
for the viewer to kinda wonder about it
and
and, you know, have a little quiz about
about it and
put themselves into the scene maybe can,
So that meant a lot more walking around
and just finding
things that looked good, kind of an interesting...
Composition I could make,
but I had to combine it with people
actually doing something,
you know, hopefully, for the most part doing
more than just laying in there. I've got
a few pictures of that,
you know, but probably not more than
20 percent or something like that. Because I
try to get people at least making some
sort of gesture or raising their head up
or in doing something, you know, putting their
hands somewhere or
interacting with somebody else
so
the...
I guess I just kept at it for
a few years. You know, and started getting
printing a few things,
getting
more comfortable with what I was doing, and
then, then actually start when I got,
you know, enough images that I thought were
strong enough.
I
started putting together a portfolio actually printing
11 by 17,
prince on
I think, Can
Ka Moreno,
stock, which is a nice and and think
it's a real nice finish too it No.
Very nice. I so much body to you
know, you can carry it around in a
portfolio,
and it kinda holds up a,
against a lot of handling.
So started showing this to folks. You know,
around here. Yeah.
And was encouraged and went showed it to
the...
A few friends and stuff and then
about
fall of 2019.
I decided to
get out and
really see how where I was.
So I,
decided to sign up for the reviews at
Photo in Houston,
and
that was,
turned out to be quite an experience. Some
people warned me against that, and they said,
well, you know, for your first portfolio review,
that can be pretty brutal there because they're
peep...
Reviewers come in from all over the world
for that. You know?
And I signed up for... Gosh, I think
3 days of reviews. I was you with
the expenses
of getting there is staying in a hotel
in Downtown, Houston, and all.
In, you know, from Colorado where I live,
staying I decided to, you know, bite off
the whole thing.
And
turned out to be a great experience. I
It was people were encouraging and helpful and
you know, they had never seen anything like
this before. You know, had some 1 years
that I'd look at a lot of work,
and I've never seen anything like this, which
was encouraging.
Because that's that's the first thing you've gotta
do If you wanna be notice, You've gotta
do something
that
you know, the
then...
The knowledgeable, you know, gatekeepers and the scene.
If you wanna be noticed. That's true because
the... Would obviously look a lot of photos
here and we see... Out of the same
cli cliches. And... Yeah. You don't have any
of that. It's... So what did you take
away from Photo fest?
Oh, gosh. I guess. A you know,
it I was encouraged first off that I
was on the right track, you know?
That
that it hadn't been done before that it
wasn't just stupid, you know, stupid stuff an
old man on a cruise ship was cranking
out.
You know, and and
some of the...
I got a lot of good
ideas because I... The portfolio I made,
had pictures of the crew. I took about
20 pictures, 20, you know, prints, and there
were pictures of the crew, some sort of
pictures of the architecture of the ship, some
sort of kind of still life sort of
things of
stuff people had left behind on the ship,
you know, in their chairs and tables and
stuff that, you know, and some of the,
you know, the passengers and some of the
ship and a little bit of, you know,
like,
5 sort of different approaches is different things.
And I got some direction from them. I...
And the most resonance I got were, pictures
of the ship
that had
that kind of
sparking them a little that moment, but ambiguity
picked you know, people where
they were, just doing interesting things,
with in with strong
composition. So... And some humor, humor and irony,
you know, that really clicked lot of folks
saw humor in it and said you know,
we don't see a lot... You don't see
a lot of humor and stuff people are
doing these days, and they they really like
that.
And
so I started to kind of work more
in that direction on subsequent
trips.
The other thing that was really helpful
was I got a lot better sense
of
which of my images worked and which didn't.
And a lot of that came from just
being in the hallways in between the review
sessions. Sometimes you'd have to an hour or
2 to kill before your next review. Reviews
them the last 20 minutes, and it's just
like bam and it's over,
and you're out in the hall again,
and there were people from, you know,
again, all over
all over the Us and some people from
other countries that came in for these reviews.
So
people the
Yeah. There was 1 guy he talked to
who was actually instructor at Ic in New
York.
Paying the photos chef best to get his
stuff review.
He wasn't a review or he was a
student
like me sort of to get reviewed,
because he no matter what where you are.
You can always get...
Experience from other or
knowledge and input from other experienced people. So
I got a lot of good stuff in
the halls just kinda putting this stuff out.
1 guy,
a photo editor.
Who was there just kinda said, well, he
went through my myself and just made a
left pile in a right, paul. And said,
I think these these work.
I'm not so sure about these.
So I kept those 2 sets
and
in the, you know, time afterward,
said looked at them. Stack them up on
the wall, you know and instead
what's going on here and just got a
feel for that. Pretty quickly.
I guess the thing I would say and
it is that that but that whole experience
at Photos fest,
probably...
Pushed me ahead 2 or 3 years in
my progression. In 3 days,
you know,
with the
I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I would...
I'd recommend that to anybody who was, you
know, had had a had a body of
work.
That they needed to get,
some m, you know, qualified
input on you hear... You hear different things
from different reviewers. You gotta go through and
and pick out the good stuff I recorded
every 1 of them they're... With their permission.
Course and then went back and listened to
each 1 of them a couple of times
and made notes. You know, what they said,
so I had this big list of suggestions
and I could go through and play with
the ideas as I decided where to go
next. You know, it's it's so hard. I
mean, it's it's just so lonely.
Pass not past, but, you know, art form
or whatever because,
hey, you just working by yourself, you're editing
by yourself, and
you get stuck in your own head
about what's good and what's not good. And
it's it's so good to have others Take
a look and...
Well, you're in the middle of it so
much. No. And I can't tell if it's
any good or not. I agree completely. You
anything I'm looking at it. Even even...
Obviously, when I'm, like, selecting what to what
image images to work up, what are the
best ones, which, you know, and what can
I do with him? But even when I'm
when I'm adding to them.
You know?
Make this 1 or this 1 which which
do I like better, which you're stronger to
the the sky this dark or this light
or
the color changed a little bit or not.
Just... You know, you just... You look at
your own stuff so much.
I think you just become sen.
At least I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Interesting.
So who...
Did you have any notable...
Photographers
reviewing your work there?
Not really photographers, but I did... I mean,
I started off my...
My
my morning with the bang
right off the bat. I was... It was,
like, jumping into cold water, you know, and
and Sweden in the winter.
I,
my first 3 reviewers,
I had Ai Smith
or Smith, and, I guess you pronounce it.
Paula To from the Griffin museum in Boston,
and Mary Virginia Swanson.
So it I, you know, 3 really big
names in the field,
and just bang bang bank, you know, right
off the bat, and they were all wonderful
and and helpful
and
after that. And they were they were, like,
there was no break between them. I literally
went from 1 to another
had, like, a 5... They had, like, a
5 minute inter information between between the reviews
or something, and you just move, you know,
fast as you can move your stuff.
But if there weren't really...
There were a lot of people from, you
know, from
museums and galleries and photo editors, you know,
some... National geographic and
gentleman from the high Museum in Atlanta
and
a lot of places I some a guy
from Brazil and
you know, some collectors
and
But I don't honestly don't recall any
photographers that I knew of actually doing reviews.
What do you have to bring
to an event like that? Does everybody bring
this,
like the same size photos and the same
number
quite there's quite a difference. I I did
a lot of research before going, you know,
on
people's experiences there. Reviews and what they recommended
you do and bring,
I
it went on the... You know, did these
11 by 17 prints,
stuck them in a little nice little portfolio
case. That were easy to get in and
out of.
I numbered... I... I put
little removable stickers on the back of the
prints and numbered them in the order that
I wanted them to be seen.
So that I could re assemble them for
the next review very quickly
because they get scattered because since they lay
them out and put them in different piles
and you want that. As part of the
input process.
Pick the portfolio with about 20 prints,
I took some you know, I had some
business cards made up,
and
a other little lance ancillary alert, or things
like some little postcards and some bookmarks that
I took to the to the... 1 of
the nights of most portfolio reviews they have
what the call walk portfolio walk through,
where they give people a
a table. You get 1 little, you know,
3 by 6 foot table or something kind
of a standard table to put your things
out, and people from any... It's a public
event. And anybody could come through and walk
through
and look at the work laid out by
all of the photographers
getting their work, you know, at the reviews,
and 1 night, And I've... I used to
go to them sometimes at photo
When I lived in Portland
They do a port what they call a
portfolio walk night.
And
and I have these little... Look, you know,
my business cards and all these little postcards
and little bookmarks, and that was mostly a
waste at that of event. You know, people
just kinda walk through and I I had
the got the unlucky draw of being way
at the back of the room, so people
were exhausted by the time they got.
Because I mean, there must have been
60 photographers with our workout
at Photo fest. So
So I took things like that.
I don't know. That's... I took a book
good notebook.
You know, to it. I took...
I printed out
little pages,
or 8 and a half mile 11 pages,
that had the thumbnails and 1 at the
top half of of all the images in
my portfolio.
Like a contact sheet know. Right.
And then space below with questions I wanted
to ask
and space... So I'd flipped through my notebook
with each review,
and if they had a comment about a
pick... Specific picture, I could write it on
that thumbnail or draw an arrow to it.
To refer to a picture very quickly
and write notes down there.
And then when I went to the next
review, it just flip it and go to
the next 1 and, you know, it had
little information about the reviewer, so I kinda
know who they were. Where they were from
because I knew I had to work very
quickly
to make that transition
from 1 reviewer to a next. And
I guess I'm just so obsessive that I
was super prepared for it in, like... So
I went very smoothly.
As as I would go go through those
sessions. I would... I just... Because I was
putting so much into it. I just made...
Did a lot of research and made sure
I was as prepared as I could possibly
be. And I think that helped me get
the most out of it.
Where to have it in Houston?
This was that
I think it was called the White Hall
hotel, which is an old hotel and... Right
downtown. Yeah. Yeah. Downtown
Houston. Yeah. Yeah.
You, very nice place, a nice, big
big venue for it. A lot of space
in the holes with fairly decent lighting in
the holes, Some, you know,
I could see how that could be a
a downer or if they didn't have a
lot of good space.
Because most people... There are a lot of
people who weren't in a review. At any
given time. They were between reviews,
you know?
So...
But it was it it was good. It
was well run, and, they had some...
Events
for the attendees, you could get on buses
at night. And went... At night, we went
over to see some other exhibits in the
town because it an event like Photo fast
or or or photo.
I guess, most of these big review events
that the reviews are
an ancillary part of a larger
sometimes month long photo festival.
With,
you know, photo exhibits going on at, you
know,
15 to 30 different venues
and they have these things in other countries
too. Some really big ones. I haven't ever
been to them, but might go someday.
Combine it with our travels. No. What what
an opportunity.
Did you tell him the story about
taking a class from Gary Winter grande?
No. In 20 minutes, You don't have much
that's true. You know Real chat. Although other
the way... We had some nice lunches. I
tried to connect with people there lunch and
all and
and that was good... I guess another name,
I'll I'll drop is is while I was
there as a student at Ut,
I
started working
as a lab assistant,
for the intro,
courses. So, you know, students would come out
in their first photography course ever, you know,
with appreciate, our prints, and I was very
good at
you know, tell them what... Given them suggestions
and tell them how to... What was wrong
with the picture, what they might do and
stuff. So they they kinda put me to
work, pretty quickly there after... After my first
course while I guess I was in my
second course.
And,
just kinda just doing general work. Well,
1 of my little duties was I got
to drive,
walker Evans around the campus.
He came he came for an advanced class.
And the the couple of the, you know,
faculty members 1 who of whom was my
supervisor said when we've, you know, He doesn't
walk too well, We've got get him from
the communications building over to the student union
or something where we're gonna have lunch. We've
got a room set up there and all.
And we did get him from there to
there. So can you come and and pick
us up at such and such a time
and drive this over to get us there?
Because, you know, driving around the campus and
park, know, their campus like Ut.
Is is a challenge. You know, There are
only certain places you can go. So anyway,
III
drove walker For about 5 minutes.
And got to participate... You know, got to
sit in on his... His little session that
he had with some graduate students there just
because I had some connections.
Oh he didn't think much of it at
the time. No.
Well, I know he was a big deal,
you know because it got... But and had
my photo history class yet. So I hadn't
really got into the the Fsa and
and all of the, you know, important
work that
Then walker Evans did for sure.
Well,
that's like my...
My son works at at the other Ut.
Yep. Tennessee,
and we were over there visiting. We're just
walking through the town.
And there's a little museum
in downtown downtown Knoxville. That's
owned by the university. Nat happen to have
a...
Exhibit up that week.
It was the walker Evans
work With what's in, William.
Ag,
photograph for this. I I keep forgetting the
name of that book. Let us now play...
Praise... Famous men. Yeah. There you go. Thank
you. It's got too many words for me
to remember. Yeah. It's a it's an awkward
title actually. It is. It's an awkward title.
And I dragged my wife in there, Like,
oh, wow.
Look at this. Who would have fuck this?
Yeah.
And
what a treat.
Anyway.
I know you're gonna tell us about some
exhibits you have coming up. But before we
get into the detail on those,
you you said something to me before we
started it.
You showed some of your worked to some
folks.
Mh. And
turned a a couple really nice
exhibitions for you.
What what exactly did you do? How did
you
I assume you had a box of 20
some prints or portfolio, 20 some prints.
How did that work for you? What what
did you do? I have a lot of
people asking me this question. And And I
actually, Have I've got question
myself because I'm ready to do something very
similar.
Okay. In my area. So it... Yeah. Well,
also a little bit about that. After I...
After I kinda got things
my direction a little more established to at
Photo fest.
Started of working building, you know, refining my
portfolio,
shoot continuing to shoot on the cruise as
we go on
at least 6 cruises a year. Holy my
cow.
Probably. Yeah. I mean, this is
And know, somebody 1 of the guys I
was showing this step too and I've kinda
picked up the phrase and my article that
I'm that I'm writing for you.
He looked at the stuff, and he said,
you're catching lightning in a bottle here.
Yeah know, because I was saying,
I was kinda feeling bad because
I'd go on a cruise
and maybe get
1 1 portfolio where the image out of
it out of shooting hundreds of pictures, you
know?
And
I
would
I kinda felt bad about that, you know,
but the guy said,
Well, that's just the nature of the stuff
you're shooting. And I kinda remember it back,
you know, when... Well, that Gary Win died.
With hundreds and hundreds of undeveloped roles. Yeah.
He would he would shoot and shoot and
shoot going a day
and shoot 20 or 30 roles,
and he would actually... It was actually his
practice
to
let the film
sit for a couple of years before he
even developed it. Yeah. And then then he
would develop it because he wanted to he
wanted to look at the contact sheets,
it
not remembering
the shoot
as if there were somebody else's pictures. Mh.
To separate,
you know, the work and the passion that
you'd actually put into the shooting experience,
Which can
make you fall in love with a picture
that's really not very good. N.
He wanted to go back I can't wait
that long it, and you don't have to
with digital. That's kind of hard to.
But, anyway, so I would
I I started... I just kept shooting
and, you know, finishing pictures that I thought.
Were were good enough to make the cut.
And eventually, I was getting,
you know, up to where I felt good
about a. A portfolio of
30 or 40 images,
and then started
fairly shortly after photo fest, I would... I
started sending, you know,
images off
to the various, you know, call for entries,
you know, things like that.
And,
start... I started getting some hits on them.
1 particular image. III
shot.
I photographed a picture of some
people in a,
kind of an indoor area of a ship
that called the atrium, I think.
Or something like back later.
And,
No. Sal. Because the sun comes through big
windows on the top,
and there was this gigantic
2 story high
bank of
artificial pink flowers behind them.
And I set up the tripod there,
because I thought it was a great scene
and then
just kind of sat back there next to
the tripod
with auto release, kinda watching it out of
the corner of my eye, and after a
few minutes, you know, didn't like I was
doing anything, So nobody paid attention, and people
would come and go from the pool.
Finally,
couple of women came in and gotten the
pool that were amazingly
dressed in bathing suits or almost alike.
And both of them reached up at exactly
the same time and start of and started
kind of p their hair with the same
body gestures and and
And it would it turned out to be
an amazing picture, and I I got that,
and I thought, oh, wow. This said this
could be the best picture. I ever take
on a cruise ship. Because it was just
everything about it was was perfect on it
It was very strong and, you know,
created kind of the storytelling
ambiguity that I wanted.
And I sent that in, and
it started getting that image got started getting
accepted.
At various places. It was in the...
Well, the annual member show for the Texas
photographic society
and
an exhibit in Oregon
and something in California, I think. And
so I'd continued that
to just start to to get some input,
but mostly just kinda
build
a little resume,
you know, of of images.
That
that I'd had,
and
started
then
I guess in the last fall,
I decided I was ready to start
trying to get a solo show, not just
you know, 1 picture hair and there.
I felt I had a strong enough body
of work and enough good images
to put up
20 or 30 prints.
And
so I started,
just kind I've been making notes of the
places that dead vest you know, and it
picked up some things from,
I don't know. I think Lens culture did
a
article once that was, like, you you know,
30 top places to submit your work or
something like that, and I just kinda grabbed
all that information I had a big list
to start going down. And
have started doing that,
the,
and that's how I got a
I guess,
in the fall,
I got a hit from the
the viewpoint,
photographic
gallery, I think are in in sacramento, California.
They had an annual
time when their committee was reviewing things, and
they said, got this thing I said, we
would like to to show your images. So,
I have a a show of 25 prints
going up at Viewpoint,
on May eighth. That'll be up there from,
May eighth to June first, and I'm going
there for a to attend a reception on
May nineteenth.
My daughter
lives not too far away,
about 2 hours away in Sal.
So I'm gonna fly in there to monterey,
and then they're all gonna come out for
the little reception, so I get to see
it. I get some nice,
gallery
installation shots that those are some of the
things I learned from for Mary Virginia Swanson
was to, you know, show your work on
your website, hanging on walls, not just a
click through port, foley, but... Yeah. Good.
She said, even even if you hang have
to hang them on your own wall at
home and photograph them,
do it. You know, because you want to
show your work
in a frame or behind gl pre of
glass on a wall.
And the the other exhibit that I come
up with was,
I
submitted a bunch of
actually sent out a bunch of query emails
says Denver
bien any month of photography was approaching
a couple of years ago.
And I was way too late. I'm I
was, like,
4 or 5 months ahead of
of when the event occurred,
you know,
sending pitch letters with a few images below
and and all about
to the various galleries that tended to show
photography during the month of photography in Denver.
I should have been pitching them 2 years
in advance. It seems.
And but but 1 of the 1 of
the guys there said, well, you know... Yeah.
It's too late. We're not, you know, to
do that said, but... But after it's all
over, stop by sometime time, and I'll look
at your work.
And this was a place in golden colorado
call the,
the Foot hills are at center, which is
a big art center there
that
combines exhibits with
education. So there's a lot of arc courses,
and, you know, painting and,
some photography
and
workshops and
sculpture,
ceramics. They've got a big studio and all,
for that kind of thing.
And so I went in and showed the
guy the portfolio,
and
and he was just really excited about it.
He was it was it was a pleasure
shu in the work. He'd like, flipped through
a thing he would go, oh, wow. Again.
It was just really
demons. It was very it was
gratifying just to see somebody with... That could
respond to the work that that well.
So we've I signed a contract with him
to do a
a show
that's gonna run 3 months in
20 25,
most of the summer there.
And we're gonna do some really
special things that come up with some money
to to help me fund, like,
some really big images, you know. Like, for
this viewpoint show, I'm doing,
printing the biggest prints I can make on
my Eps and 38 80, a v old
printer if you've ever worked with 1 of
those,
really nice. But but 11 by 17,
17 by 22,
paper is the largest it'll take. So I'm
doing, you know, 7... Printing on 17 by
22 and 20 by 20 formats ads. For
this viewpoint show. And I mentioned to this,
the curator at the Foot Hills gallery, I
said, So that's kinda what I'm I'm doing.
He said, he said, oh, I was thinking
much bigger.
So we'll see.
So So I'm think... My... The thing the
thing I don't wanna get into a situation
than where I end up, maybe
spend them a lot of money on things
that are gonna be too big for me
to ship around to another.
I mean, live here in Colorado. I can
I can deliver this stuff to him in
my car?
But,
you know, I'm I'm concerned about.
Spending
hundreds and hundreds or thousands of dollars
on something that I I can't even get
in my front door,
Yeah I have to be careful about that.
But maybe a lot of people are, like,
printing things
and just rolling them up,
and
sticking them up with magnets.
I think
photography
has gotten so expensive
the shipping, the presentation,
And I found that galleries are becoming
more and more collaborative because they know
that, you know, their expenses are going up
to.
And so much, you know, is put on
the back of the photographer these days
to
to ship things both ways to provide everything
to buy all the frame have you know,
all that stuff.
And that's
that's an important aspect when you get into
this. This
But, yeah. So I just... For that 1,
I just showed him things, and I've got
a big list of things. That's that's how
I... You know.
I pitched it
to you. And and your, you know, street
photography magazine
is I thought my... Well my first pitch
was Bob is a street photography.
Yeah. I I'm wondering real shit,
photograph people.
I think it is, but maybe it's not,
you know? Yeah. Well, I wanna point something
out about about your approach that could help
other people.
As a magazine most of the time or
a lot of the time,
are it inquiries for publishing in the magazine
are
Hey, here's my website. Look at my stuff.
Well, you know, when you get 50 of
those a week, it's kinda hard
to look at all of them.
So when somebody actually uses my name.
Yeah. And
has something to say,
which is exactly what you did.
That catches is our attention. That's not just
us. I mean, that that applies to anybody
or... Sure. I I think that goes through
to Mike.
My year is working in public relations. Yes.
About help. Like, send a news release, it's
a pitch. You're going to a media
organization, and
gallery or Museum or a
website, a podcast.
You know, their they're media
in in a way, You know, So I
try to customize it and tailor it and
and and real realize
the flood of stuff that you must be
getting,
It's a lot. And we're just... We're little.
Yep.
You know. So I got a big list.
I'm just going down the list, and, yeah.
I'm continually kinda
continually struggle
with how much time can I
put into actually creating the work?
You know, I've got tons of images that
I'd like to
explore and work up and see if I
can make a good image out of it.
You know, the when I shoot,
I'm just capturing the bones.
You know? Is is is the moment there
is the composition there.
And then I I'll work for days on
an image in and, you know, lightroom and
photoshop
to
to make it the most powerful statement
that I can.
I wanna go back to the sack... Your
Sacramento show. So that's sure. That's not local,
are you...
How many photos are you showing there? Like
25. 25.
Are are you framing them?
With
luckily, 1 thing that made the whole thing
possible
was they they
keep a large stock of
standard plexiglass sizes.
So they... So I... And they just... They'll
put the stuff up behind their plexiglass if
you don't wanna frame it. There is no
way I could frame and... I mean,
20 by 24 plexiglass sheets are close to
40 dollars a sheet. Just for the glass.
The piece of yeah in the frame, and
then, God what does it cost to, like,
pack that up and ship it. You have
to have these great big museum credits, you
know, with that go on a pallet. Something
like they, you know, put Edward Bat working
in or something.
So
so that was
that was 1 of the things that when
they said, yeah, we'd I'd like to show
you, you, show your work.
And
showed me kind of what the options were
that I said, okay. Yeah. I I will
agree to do this. I I could see
a situation where somebody would come back and
say, yeah, We wanna show you work, and
here's what you've gotta do. And I decide
it's not worth it. I probably should just
spend more time as I... Before I pitch
them on
But a lot of that stuff is behind
the scenes. It's in the contract that they
send you. They don't... And the contract isn't
there.
It just says, you know, send submissions too.
But it, you know, I you've got cycle...
But it sometimes it's good for them to
just see your work
because even if they don't wanna
show it or you don't agree to their
to their to meet their needs, which, you
know, or sometimes
you know,
substantial.
Maybe they'll tell somebody else about your work.
So it never hurts to put your work
in front of,
and in front of the... What I generically
call a gatekeeper, which could be a,
you know,
online publisher like you are or a gallery
or a Museum or the photo editor,
who not knows? Yeah. Could be anybody.
Yeah.
So are you actually printing
your printing photos and sending them to Sacramento?
Yeah. I actually
printed the... Printed by printed in January in
February sort of.
A lot of the images
I had to do some more work on
because I found that when I went from
my portfolio prints on 11 by 17, you
know, with a 1 inch margin,
up to
the biggest these these you know, 17 by
22 prints,
some... I started seeing some little artifacts, sometimes
on edges and things like that,
and
that I wasn't seeing. So I really
went over them very carefully
to make them even better than they had
to be,
on 17 by 22 papers. So I wouldn't
have to go back yet had a third
time If I ever,
you know, wanted to print 1,
you know,
3 by 4 feet or something like that.
So that that took a lot of work.
And I just saw things that I could
do better. That's the thing, you know, that's
it's it's 1 of the 1 of the
gifts of digital photography
is that
it can be better. I I was working
with a...
Some software
that...
I guess, I can say there's, like, the
next software package. Mh. Terribly the nick Yeah.
Just like with the va and stuff like
that. And III
started working with that early on because it
was just so quick and easy to make.
Tremendous changes,
you know,
in Photoshop, great edits,
and they had a version 3, and then
I Upgraded diversion know version 2, I did
it seems to work on, then I upgraded
to version 3,
and it went back to edit some version
two's, and it couldn't do it.
And I I wrote them and said, Oh,
what's the deal here? I can't open and
Said, no. You can just have to start
with your version 2 image, and then re
edit that on top of it.
I said, and and their assumption is that
once you had understood a picture, you were
finished, and I wrote the guy back and
I said,
I said, I am an artist. I am
never stopped with it. I never finished with
an image.
I was probably an overstate.
But in this digital
digital world,
it's a gift.
Because as you grow,
your approach to an image can grow. I'm
sure there are painters
that don't wanna look at work that they
did 10 years earlier because they owe so
much more.
You.
And you just have to turn it loose
I I realize at some point. You have
to Abandon it. Yep. But anyway,
I'm I'm
Sorry. I forgot where my thread of thought.
Great. Yeah. We're talking about image sizes and...
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I yeah. I printed
them all.
I in the and mad them,
built special shipping cases for them, a little
tip,
you know, to
built shipping
large batches of prince light... Very delicate prints,
especially, you know, they're not going in frame.
And if you ding the corner, it's ruined.
Is if you put a little ding and
a frame that you're gonna put in a
frame, you can get by with it because
it's gonna be hidden by the frame.
And it was... It's kind of risky putting
things in cardboard boxes, and these things they
wanted it. They wanted,
like, 4 ply mats. So you get a
4 ply back mat and a 4 pie
front mat,
and, you know, it's about a a pound
per per print
added print. So
we know more than that.
Little more. Anyway, I I shipped them 2
boxes weighing about 25 pounds a piece.
And the thing I learned was that
if you
if you ship by Fedex or Ups,
if it's not in a cardboard box,
you pay about a 20 dollar
surcharge. So. So you can't build a box
out of, like, wood and,
Mason, you, with a big hard sided box
and ship it
without paying a 20 dollar
surcharge. So what I did was I built
boxes,
out of Mason wood, really sturdy boxes, you
know, the mason Screws in to them, you
know, they're all padded and perfectly made for.
You know, 20 by 24 prints. And then
I put those in a cardboard box.
Save 20 dollars. I think rigged the cardboard
box. It was just big enough. Yeah. It
didn't mean much padding because they're bulletproof. You
know. Was long
as long as the whole box wasn't ripped
in half
interesting.
And shipped those off. So those went off
a few weeks ago,
and I got confirmation for them that the
boxes were intact. I, well, that's all you
need to do. Because, like I said, they're
in there are a little armored cars inside
those cardboard boxes.
So... But those are just things that I've
just kinda learned and picked up. Yeah. That's
pretty. It's enough. What the deal you might
fear gonna...
If you're gonna ship and show your work,
there's a whole back into it.
Once again, that takes time away from actually
creating, like, the marketing, the pitching, the promotion,
the research on places to ship it, you
know. So it's...
But it's... You know, I read someplace place
1 of the
challenge book authors have is they work for
years
writing a book,
and then
they're sick of it. And at that very
time, they've gotta go on the road
promoting it and talking about it, while they're
trying to get on with their next project
and and and
or do more work, you know. But at
least a book is a stake in the
ground. When the book is done,
it's kinda done,
when you're preparing exhibits,
it's a collaborative
relationship with your curator,
where, you know,
you you work together to decide what to
hang? What's what's missing? Do you wanna do
something
special just for this venue, you know, that
that might be really neat that you couldn't
do it in other venue.
There's a lot of opportunity. And it's a
it's an extension
of the...
Creative process to have a collaborative process with
your,
curator or editor or or whatever it is.
So how does it feel to be selected
for a
1 man show?
It's it's nate. III...
It's been a long time. III
had a previous life.
When I was doing my 4 by 5
work,
and,
was doing,
also some 35 millimeter work and I... I
did get 1
1 person show some of my 4 by
5 work, but it was just derivative landscape
work. You know, black and white landscape work
like, do doing that back in the eighties,
early eighties, and late seventies, you know,
And, but it was nice to do that,
you know, and then I had a
another experience,
I photographed
pictures of my son,
when he was between
9 months and a year and a half
old, Yeah. Saw this on your website. Oh
you saw. Okay. Yeah. And I had had
some reception with those and, actually...
Got a 1 man show
on that at the Salt Lake arts center,
and in Utah,
I was traveling with the...
My employer at the time at Ut Paso,
the Ut athletic department.
To shu so and I was gonna shoot
pictures at a football game there. They were
playing the University of Utah. We had a
hotel
near downtown,
Salt lake City.
And I thought, I'll go shut... Knock on
the door. I see there's an art center
there.
I went in knocked on the door and
went in to her receptionist said, I've got
some photographs here. I'd like to show if
there's anybody like to look at them. She's
says, oh, yeah. Let me see if if
Robert here and what time... Well, it turned
out,
he had come to this guy, Robert Dough
had just come...
He was... Just come from east George Eastman
house
to take over ship of the Bar center
in Salt lake.
Went in and to show show him the
pictures. And he said, yeah. I'd like to
show these. So about 6 months later, I
had a 1 man show there
for those. So those are my you know,
a couple of 1 man shows
or 1 person shows.
Don't ask you don't get. But I did.
Yeah. I just as, you know,
You just gotta show up and just kinda
make the pitches and realize that you're usually
gonna get rejected.
But then I think of all the actors,
you know, they get
professional actors,
they get
rejected all the time. You just done salespeople.
The best salespeople.
Yeah. Based rejection constantly. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes
It's just kinda part of the... Part of
the gig if you're gonna put your work
out there, and Yeah. I wanna share it.
I, you know, I don't wanna just do
stuff to
Don't out just the hit screener. Yeah. They're
all piled up and your office somewhere. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a, like they say, don't don't
wait for the phone to ring.
No.
Wow. Wow.
Well,
thanks, Russell. I
This is a very, very informative.
I think a lot of people find it
very helpful.
Good. I hope yeah. I hope I haven't
bla on too much. Shot. No. No. No.
Not at all. I... I said, I can
talk about this all day. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
that's a think I I'm so
I am I'm a little bit apprehensive before
I talk
about it. But once I get started.
Yeah. It's... I'm quite passionate about it. You
know? It's just... That's what it makes it
easy. It's just like g and start the
engine, you know? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, Alright. Well,
before we go, tell people where they can
go see your work in the Oh, digital
world. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, my website is
russell c banks dot com.
2 s's and 2 l's. I guess you'll
can put a link in the Oh, yeah.
Absolutely. There'll be a live link there.
And I I started and and by... Well,
my my
Instagram is,
at Russell c banks.
I I don't do a lot there because
I just kinda occasionally put up a finished
image there and
I give... I gave up on Facebook a
long time ago,
and, like, a lot of folks I guess
are doing. And then,
I did,
I guess the...
Oh, dang, Bob. I forgot what I was
gonna say. But anyway, those are my... Those
are the main ways to
to get a hold and and take a
look. I've got... Variety of things there on
the website, more stuff.
But that's... Oh, I was gonna say. I
started using the the Russell banks
because
there was a famous rider
named Russell Banks.
And so when you Google him,
that's all you get.
And
and also there...
So I I dropped the c in which
is my middle and middle initial,
And that was available. It was available on,
you know, on all of the social media
on any place Like kinda look. So...
That's that's why how it ended up Russell
c banks dot com. And I kinda started
kinda using that in my professional
communications. So I'm I do that on my
business card, you know, to kinda match it
up for the whole whole ideas to have
your...
Have a consistent
identity.
Listen to the pro back to the back
to the marketing field. Yeah. Yeah.
And for those of you who are street
photography magazine subscribers,
You can see Russell article that he wrote,
titled
floating world,
which was published in the May issue of
Street photography magazine.
May 20 second to be exact,
And
it contains
much of his work that he shot on
cruise ships in a very interesting article
about how he works.
And 1 more thing, Russell is also
the
featured photographer
for the month of July 20 24,
and, his feature article
that Ashley wrote very good story about an
interesting guy, and that will be published
on Sunday,
July the seventh. That's just 2 days from
today if you're listening to this, the day
it drops.
So that is all. And once again, thanks,
Russell.
Appreciate you reaching out. And just love to
hear your story.
Well, it's a pleasure, Bob.