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And now, the street photography magazine podcast with

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your host, Bob Patterson.

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Hello, and welcome back to the Street photography

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magazine podcast.

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I'm Bob Patterson Publisher of Street photography magazine.

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And with us today in this episode is

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Russell Banks from Windsor,

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Colorado and Russell

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He's a lifelong

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street photographer.

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He

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studied under Gary Grand during Winter grant's time

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at the University of Texas.

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And he's a world traveler

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and an Avid Cruiser.

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So Russell uses his street photography skills and

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style to document

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there's sometimes

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bizarre life and culture,

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onboard cruise ships.

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And in the process has created some very

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interesting work, which has landed him, has landed

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him 2 solo

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exhibitions of his work. In the May 20

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24 issue of Street photography magazine, we published

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an article titled floating world, By Russell all

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about the work he's created in this project.

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If you were subscriber to Street photography magazine,

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and you haven't seen this article.

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I recommend you go have a look because

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I think you'll find it very interesting

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and inspiring. So, Russell,

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thanks for joining us. Now, thanks, Bob. It's

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terrific to be here.

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Well we're awesome before we really get into

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the

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nitty gritty of your work. Much you just

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tell us a little bit about yours. Self

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and, you know, how you came to be

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doing street photography on ships.

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Well, I I started out a lot of

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folks as a kid with a camera. I

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had up in West Texas

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and had a a brownie bullet was just

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a point in shoot little camera. A had

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no controls, no flash.

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You

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just,

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you know, fed the film through it and

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push the button.

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I played around with that obviously, and had

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fun with it, but,

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obviously, it was just

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just a kid, you know, my dad would

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pull out

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a codec re A3C at the time,

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which was a very nice

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kodak camera back when there was a period

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when kodak

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had some, camera bodies made for them, I

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think in Germany that had a schneider lens

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on it.

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And he pull that outfit at vacations and

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Christmas and stuff and mostly shoot slides. I

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don't think this most of the C slides

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I don't know if ever shot prints,

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print film.

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Anyway, got into high school,

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took a course that had actual real dark

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room,

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saved up my money and got a Tech

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spot mat, a camera made back in the

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days when they still had screw on lenses.

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And I go around shooting friends. Hanging out

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some trips around the area,

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with my high school rock band,

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and

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you know, just black and white, just

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just whatever occurred to me, just fund things.

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I was also into literature and bride. So,

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when I started at the University of Texas

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at Off, Austin, I started as an English

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major.

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I was still interested in photography and then

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discovered there were photography courses and the journalism

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department.

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So I started taking a few classes there

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to qualify for getting into the

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photography classes,

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those included news writing and editing.

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So I began to see the blending,

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of my interest in both photography and writing.

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Also, in Austin,

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I saw our real musicians could do. So

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I sell my Gibson guitar and Fend amp

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and bought an nikon icon f and a

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few lenses.

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So at that point, I changed my major

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to journalism with the concentration in photo journalism,

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it only contain.

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4 photography courses over 2 years, but they

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were educating journalists.

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And under that broad umbrella, you could do

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concentrating writing or photography.

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So

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they wanted to give journalism majors a broad

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base of knowledge,

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and we were required to take elective.

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For many other departments. So I took political

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science, astronomy, soc sociology,

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psychology, geography,

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a studio art, art history, visual

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communication.

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And then in my senior year,

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which was 19 73,

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I guess,

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Russell lee,

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the the Russell lee from the,

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farm security

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administration work working with Roy Striker,

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He retired from the art department,

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and

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comes Gary Win grant.

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And I... Unfortunately, I never got to take

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a course. Under Russell Lee,

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but I did was able to get into

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a class with Gary Win grand.

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As I was finishing up my degree there,

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it was kind of a busy time. So

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I wasn't able to put a whole lot

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of effort into the class.

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But that class format,

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it was a

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discussion type of, format. So

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the students came in with their prints from

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the pre... Or prince from work they've done

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in the previous week,

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stuck them up on a Bulletin board that

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kinda wrapped all the way around the room.

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And then he would walk around,

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talking about things that he noted and kind

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of lead a discussion and some things, you

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know, he said, yeah, this is working really

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well or there in other ways, he'd see

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something that it wasn't working so well and

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we talk about what wasn't working.

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And,

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just a lot of that

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sort of discussion,

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it was great for him because he didn't

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have to do any class. Up. He just

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showed up. And talked, which, I guess is

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kind of a christie deal, you know, But

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he wanted to shoot in Texas.

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So,

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I've absorbed a lot though that's been slowly

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revealed you know, as I've worked over the

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years.

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I can't point to any particular thing, but

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just a way of thinking about photography and

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being in the moment,

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And just getting out there in a situation

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and just kind of having your end your

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antenna up

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being aware of what else going around you,

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anticipating

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situations

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and just trying to be at the right

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place at the right.

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You know, right time and just work your

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tail off to

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get what you can, you know, what you

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can capture.

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I guess,

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probably in the early nineties

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93, I think when we took our first

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cruise,

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my wife was a a nurse working in

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critical care.

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So she worked her tail off and wanted

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to take good vacations, you know?

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And so we

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did a cruise then and

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then occasionally

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took a cruise, did mostly land cruises and

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things for,

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many Years. We do

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exotic places like, you know, India and South

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Africa and China and

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and all,

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And

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of course, my camera was at my side

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all the time. They on, It was there

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it was just

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a visual feast. You know know, us going

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through a different culture like that this. Sure.

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Everything just

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is jumping out, at I mean,

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But

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we

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find finally, we both re retired in about

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in 2013.

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And like you said, we really kicked up

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the cruising.

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After we retired, we we did a lot

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before

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But then when, you know, when we didn't

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have to coordinate with time off from jobs

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and all,

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we could just kinda jump on deals, and

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did a lot of cruising, on a lot

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of different lines. We've built up or, you

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know,

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status on a variety of where we get

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little perks and stuff. Yeah free laundry or

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things like that. Mh. Little little little amenities

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that make it easier.

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But

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yeah. After a while,

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I'd I it was getting

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a little bored on the,

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especially on the days at sea or if

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it was a port, that was kind of

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blonde, and we've been to before a few

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times in there. You had to if you

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do those Caribbean cruises,

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you you hit the same ports

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often, and you've been there and they weren't

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that great in the first place. So sometimes,

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you know, you you... You don't go out

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for very long if at all,

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and

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I just said, well, I gotta start doing

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something creative on these ships and see what

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I can see what I can do. So

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I started...

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Walking around the decks with a camera

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and just kinda shooting in the sort of

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a street style that I knew,

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looking for people

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in these

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unusual in this unusual setting

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because it's really it's really kind of a

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bizarre setting with these rails and water in

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the background and the unique

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kind of a nautical

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architecture that ships have. They're they're in multi

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layers, a lot of times, the exterior decks

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are lots of stairs going up and down,

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so it's a dynamic environment. You can look

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up at say you can, look down on

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scenes, you know, And

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and and they just have their own weird

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culture bizarre is a perfect...

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Yeah. Perfect

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description. Yeah.

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A a lot of your photos are just

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people laying around.

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On deck. Something that drives me crazy. I

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just can't sit around to do nothing like

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that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we... But but you've

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got some great compositions

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and you just the positions of things.

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Oh, anyway, I'm sorry. I'm

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taking you off tracks. No. No. That's that's

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fine.

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I

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I... So I started doing that. You know,

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shooting the pictures and

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the first cruise I did it. You know

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I got a couple of pictures that I

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thought were kind of interesting and kind of,

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you know, finish those,

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which just kinda means getting processed and photoshop

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to kinda look like I want, and,

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back at that back then, I

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I didn't really print them, you know.

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So much. So I just kinda I was

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seeing where it went.

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00:10:30,814 --> 00:10:32,251
And then the next cruise, I got a

281
00:10:32,251 --> 00:10:33,687
few more and then a few more and

282
00:10:33,687 --> 00:10:35,762
kinda got a feeling for what I was

283
00:10:35,762 --> 00:10:36,480
looking for.

284
00:10:37,053 --> 00:10:39,281
And kind of like... And I guess it's

285
00:10:39,281 --> 00:10:41,212
probably my appreciation of

286
00:10:41,906 --> 00:10:43,417
of a lot of what

287
00:10:44,308 --> 00:10:46,799
When did was I was

288
00:10:48,211 --> 00:10:49,189
trying to capture

289
00:10:49,725 --> 00:10:50,123
moments,

290
00:10:50,681 --> 00:10:53,013
you know, when when there's some

291
00:10:53,721 --> 00:10:54,221
gestures

292
00:10:54,674 --> 00:10:57,611
or a situation or some ambiguity in the

293
00:10:57,611 --> 00:10:59,914
scene to where you're really not sure what's

294
00:10:59,914 --> 00:11:00,549
going on,

295
00:11:03,423 --> 00:11:03,923
And

296
00:11:04,537 --> 00:11:06,286
I I think that kind of leaves the

297
00:11:06,286 --> 00:11:06,786
place

298
00:11:07,718 --> 00:11:10,183
for the viewer to kinda wonder about it

299
00:11:10,183 --> 00:11:10,683
and

300
00:11:10,995 --> 00:11:13,475
and, you know, have a little quiz about

301
00:11:13,475 --> 00:11:14,375
about it and

302
00:11:15,394 --> 00:11:17,394
put themselves into the scene maybe can,

303
00:11:18,689 --> 00:11:20,785
So that meant a lot more walking around

304
00:11:21,482 --> 00:11:22,461
and just finding

305
00:11:22,839 --> 00:11:25,951
things that looked good, kind of an interesting...

306
00:11:27,483 --> 00:11:28,202
Composition I could make,

307
00:11:29,401 --> 00:11:30,998
but I had to combine it with people

308
00:11:30,998 --> 00:11:32,037
actually doing something,

309
00:11:33,315 --> 00:11:35,639
you know, hopefully, for the most part doing

310
00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:36,991
more than just laying in there. I've got

311
00:11:36,991 --> 00:11:38,264
a few pictures of that,

312
00:11:38,901 --> 00:11:40,832
you know, but probably not more than

313
00:11:41,143 --> 00:11:43,450
20 percent or something like that. Because I

314
00:11:43,450 --> 00:11:45,677
try to get people at least making some

315
00:11:45,677 --> 00:11:47,745
sort of gesture or raising their head up

316
00:11:47,745 --> 00:11:49,755
or in doing something, you know, putting their

317
00:11:49,755 --> 00:11:51,292
hands somewhere or

318
00:11:53,984 --> 00:11:55,362
interacting with somebody else

319
00:11:57,111 --> 00:11:57,611
so

320
00:11:59,504 --> 00:11:59,744
the...

321
00:12:00,861 --> 00:12:02,297
I guess I just kept at it for

322
00:12:02,297 --> 00:12:05,596
a few years. You know, and started getting

323
00:12:06,842 --> 00:12:07,875
printing a few things,

324
00:12:09,384 --> 00:12:09,884
getting

325
00:12:10,257 --> 00:12:12,163
more comfortable with what I was doing, and

326
00:12:12,163 --> 00:12:14,431
then, then actually start when I got,

327
00:12:15,127 --> 00:12:17,041
you know, enough images that I thought were

328
00:12:17,041 --> 00:12:17,600
strong enough.

329
00:12:18,557 --> 00:12:19,057
I

330
00:12:19,753 --> 00:12:22,566
started putting together a portfolio actually printing

331
00:12:23,039 --> 00:12:24,018
11 by 17,

332
00:12:25,197 --> 00:12:26,176
prince on

333
00:12:27,514 --> 00:12:28,573
I think, Can

334
00:12:29,272 --> 00:12:29,991
Ka Moreno,

335
00:12:31,682 --> 00:12:33,824
stock, which is a nice and and think

336
00:12:33,824 --> 00:12:35,728
it's a real nice finish too it No.

337
00:12:36,125 --> 00:12:38,840
Very nice. I so much body to you

338
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,679
know, you can carry it around in a

339
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:41,160
portfolio,

340
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,580
and it kinda holds up a,

341
00:12:44,519 --> 00:12:45,559
against a lot of handling.

342
00:12:46,292 --> 00:12:48,202
So started showing this to folks. You know,

343
00:12:48,441 --> 00:12:49,714
around here. Yeah.

344
00:12:50,590 --> 00:12:53,057
And was encouraged and went showed it to

345
00:12:53,057 --> 00:12:53,216
the...

346
00:12:54,187 --> 00:12:56,283
A few friends and stuff and then

347
00:12:58,734 --> 00:12:59,234
about

348
00:13:01,366 --> 00:13:02,802
fall of 2019.

349
00:13:03,694 --> 00:13:04,993
I decided to

350
00:13:06,571 --> 00:13:07,291
get out and

351
00:13:08,969 --> 00:13:11,047
really see how where I was.

352
00:13:11,686 --> 00:13:12,245
So I,

353
00:13:13,696 --> 00:13:16,000
decided to sign up for the reviews at

354
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,351
Photo in Houston,

355
00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:19,440
and

356
00:13:20,529 --> 00:13:20,926
that was,

357
00:13:22,291 --> 00:13:24,113
turned out to be quite an experience. Some

358
00:13:24,113 --> 00:13:26,094
people warned me against that, and they said,

359
00:13:26,173 --> 00:13:28,313
well, you know, for your first portfolio review,

360
00:13:29,358 --> 00:13:31,745
that can be pretty brutal there because they're

361
00:13:31,745 --> 00:13:31,824
peep...

362
00:13:32,779 --> 00:13:34,449
Reviewers come in from all over the world

363
00:13:34,449 --> 00:13:35,245
for that. You know?

364
00:13:36,373 --> 00:13:38,999
And I signed up for... Gosh, I think

365
00:13:38,999 --> 00:13:41,466
3 days of reviews. I was you with

366
00:13:41,466 --> 00:13:42,284
the expenses

367
00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:44,508
of getting there is staying in a hotel

368
00:13:44,508 --> 00:13:46,106
in Downtown, Houston, and all.

369
00:13:46,825 --> 00:13:49,781
In, you know, from Colorado where I live,

370
00:13:51,139 --> 00:13:53,299
staying I decided to, you know, bite off

371
00:13:53,299 --> 00:13:53,934
the whole thing.

372
00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:56,419
And

373
00:13:57,348 --> 00:13:59,230
turned out to be a great experience. I

374
00:13:59,667 --> 00:14:03,348
It was people were encouraging and helpful and

375
00:14:04,677 --> 00:14:06,665
you know, they had never seen anything like

376
00:14:06,665 --> 00:14:09,314
this before. You know, had some 1 years

377
00:14:09,314 --> 00:14:10,434
that I'd look at a lot of work,

378
00:14:10,754 --> 00:14:13,314
and I've never seen anything like this, which

379
00:14:13,314 --> 00:14:14,134
was encouraging.

380
00:14:15,329 --> 00:14:17,159
Because that's that's the first thing you've gotta

381
00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:18,751
do If you wanna be notice, You've gotta

382
00:14:18,751 --> 00:14:19,490
do something

383
00:14:20,581 --> 00:14:21,059
that

384
00:14:22,332 --> 00:14:23,310
you know, the

385
00:14:24,083 --> 00:14:24,242
then...

386
00:14:24,973 --> 00:14:27,751
The knowledgeable, you know, gatekeepers and the scene.

387
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:30,053
If you wanna be noticed. That's true because

388
00:14:30,053 --> 00:14:32,752
the... Would obviously look a lot of photos

389
00:14:32,752 --> 00:14:34,596
here and we see... Out of the same

390
00:14:34,596 --> 00:14:37,467
cli cliches. And... Yeah. You don't have any

391
00:14:37,467 --> 00:14:39,380
of that. It's... So what did you take

392
00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:40,417
away from Photo fest?

393
00:14:41,374 --> 00:14:43,619
Oh, gosh. I guess. A you know,

394
00:14:45,129 --> 00:14:47,116
it I was encouraged first off that I

395
00:14:47,116 --> 00:14:48,626
was on the right track, you know?

396
00:14:49,579 --> 00:14:50,079
That

397
00:14:50,868 --> 00:14:53,021
that it hadn't been done before that it

398
00:14:53,021 --> 00:14:55,413
wasn't just stupid, you know, stupid stuff an

399
00:14:55,413 --> 00:14:57,726
old man on a cruise ship was cranking

400
00:14:57,726 --> 00:14:57,886
out.

401
00:15:00,053 --> 00:15:01,190
You know, and and

402
00:15:01,645 --> 00:15:02,043
some of the...

403
00:15:03,316 --> 00:15:04,453
I got a lot of good

404
00:15:04,907 --> 00:15:06,976
ideas because I... The portfolio I made,

405
00:15:07,549 --> 00:15:09,621
had pictures of the crew. I took about

406
00:15:09,621 --> 00:15:12,251
20 pictures, 20, you know, prints, and there

407
00:15:12,251 --> 00:15:15,174
were pictures of the crew, some sort of

408
00:15:15,532 --> 00:15:17,674
pictures of the architecture of the ship, some

409
00:15:17,674 --> 00:15:19,736
sort of kind of still life sort of

410
00:15:19,736 --> 00:15:20,713
things of

411
00:15:21,323 --> 00:15:23,466
stuff people had left behind on the ship,

412
00:15:23,719 --> 00:15:26,037
you know, in their chairs and tables and

413
00:15:26,037 --> 00:15:28,354
stuff that, you know, and some of the,

414
00:15:28,434 --> 00:15:30,751
you know, the passengers and some of the

415
00:15:30,751 --> 00:15:32,841
ship and a little bit of, you know,

416
00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:33,398
like,

417
00:15:34,113 --> 00:15:36,259
5 sort of different approaches is different things.

418
00:15:37,133 --> 00:15:39,438
And I got some direction from them. I...

419
00:15:39,597 --> 00:15:42,234
And the most resonance I got were, pictures

420
00:15:42,234 --> 00:15:43,130
of the ship

421
00:15:43,741 --> 00:15:44,479
that had

422
00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:46,462
that kind of

423
00:15:49,712 --> 00:15:53,006
sparking them a little that moment, but ambiguity

424
00:15:53,065 --> 00:15:54,922
picked you know, people where

425
00:15:55,380 --> 00:15:57,855
they were, just doing interesting things,

426
00:15:58,429 --> 00:16:00,209
with in with strong

427
00:16:00,509 --> 00:16:03,629
composition. So... And some humor, humor and irony,

428
00:16:03,870 --> 00:16:05,470
you know, that really clicked lot of folks

429
00:16:05,470 --> 00:16:07,644
saw humor in it and said you know,

430
00:16:07,804 --> 00:16:08,845
we don't see a lot... You don't see

431
00:16:08,845 --> 00:16:10,605
a lot of humor and stuff people are

432
00:16:10,605 --> 00:16:12,605
doing these days, and they they really like

433
00:16:12,605 --> 00:16:12,924
that.

434
00:16:15,659 --> 00:16:16,159
And

435
00:16:16,616 --> 00:16:18,769
so I started to kind of work more

436
00:16:18,769 --> 00:16:20,865
in that direction on subsequent

437
00:16:21,561 --> 00:16:21,880
trips.

438
00:16:22,757 --> 00:16:24,852
The other thing that was really helpful

439
00:16:26,523 --> 00:16:28,541
was I got a lot better sense

440
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:29,580
of

441
00:16:30,758 --> 00:16:33,395
which of my images worked and which didn't.

442
00:16:35,243 --> 00:16:36,858
And a lot of that came from just

443
00:16:37,153 --> 00:16:39,621
being in the hallways in between the review

444
00:16:39,621 --> 00:16:41,212
sessions. Sometimes you'd have to an hour or

445
00:16:41,212 --> 00:16:44,172
2 to kill before your next review. Reviews

446
00:16:44,172 --> 00:16:45,924
them the last 20 minutes, and it's just

447
00:16:45,924 --> 00:16:47,198
like bam and it's over,

448
00:16:47,835 --> 00:16:49,030
and you're out in the hall again,

449
00:16:49,985 --> 00:16:51,817
and there were people from, you know,

450
00:16:52,867 --> 00:16:53,925
again, all over

451
00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:56,451
all over the Us and some people from

452
00:16:56,451 --> 00:16:58,760
other countries that came in for these reviews.

453
00:16:58,999 --> 00:16:59,499
So

454
00:16:59,875 --> 00:17:00,693
people the

455
00:17:01,164 --> 00:17:02,684
Yeah. There was 1 guy he talked to

456
00:17:02,684 --> 00:17:05,484
who was actually instructor at Ic in New

457
00:17:05,644 --> 00:17:05,964
York.

458
00:17:07,164 --> 00:17:09,085
Paying the photos chef best to get his

459
00:17:09,085 --> 00:17:09,804
stuff review.

460
00:17:10,697 --> 00:17:12,051
He wasn't a review or he was a

461
00:17:12,051 --> 00:17:12,551
student

462
00:17:13,166 --> 00:17:14,759
like me sort of to get reviewed,

463
00:17:15,954 --> 00:17:17,706
because he no matter what where you are.

464
00:17:17,866 --> 00:17:18,821
You can always get...

465
00:17:20,108 --> 00:17:21,641
Experience from other or

466
00:17:22,015 --> 00:17:25,374
knowledge and input from other experienced people. So

467
00:17:26,065 --> 00:17:27,097
I got a lot of good stuff in

468
00:17:27,097 --> 00:17:28,765
the halls just kinda putting this stuff out.

469
00:17:29,019 --> 00:17:29,338
1 guy,

470
00:17:30,056 --> 00:17:31,013
a photo editor.

471
00:17:31,571 --> 00:17:34,044
Who was there just kinda said, well, he

472
00:17:34,044 --> 00:17:35,480
went through my myself and just made a

473
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,995
left pile in a right, paul. And said,

474
00:17:37,155 --> 00:17:38,511
I think these these work.

475
00:17:39,322 --> 00:17:40,673
I'm not so sure about these.

476
00:17:41,309 --> 00:17:42,923
So I kept those 2 sets

477
00:17:43,456 --> 00:17:43,956
and

478
00:17:44,331 --> 00:17:46,398
in the, you know, time afterward,

479
00:17:46,955 --> 00:17:48,799
said looked at them. Stack them up on

480
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:50,492
the wall, you know and instead

481
00:17:51,026 --> 00:17:52,855
what's going on here and just got a

482
00:17:52,855 --> 00:17:54,763
feel for that. Pretty quickly.

483
00:17:55,815 --> 00:17:57,174
I guess the thing I would say and

484
00:17:57,174 --> 00:18:00,295
it is that that but that whole experience

485
00:18:00,295 --> 00:18:01,494
at Photos fest,

486
00:18:03,095 --> 00:18:03,595
probably...

487
00:18:05,028 --> 00:18:06,937
Pushed me ahead 2 or 3 years in

488
00:18:06,937 --> 00:18:09,005
my progression. In 3 days,

489
00:18:09,721 --> 00:18:10,118
you know,

490
00:18:10,755 --> 00:18:11,493
with the

491
00:18:12,439 --> 00:18:14,505
I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I would...

492
00:18:15,378 --> 00:18:17,682
I'd recommend that to anybody who was, you

493
00:18:17,682 --> 00:18:19,430
know, had had a had a body of

494
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:19,748
work.

495
00:18:20,557 --> 00:18:22,308
That they needed to get,

496
00:18:24,058 --> 00:18:25,752
some m, you know, qualified

497
00:18:26,763 --> 00:18:29,015
input on you hear... You hear different things

498
00:18:29,015 --> 00:18:31,274
from different reviewers. You gotta go through and

499
00:18:31,734 --> 00:18:33,654
and pick out the good stuff I recorded

500
00:18:33,654 --> 00:18:35,654
every 1 of them they're... With their permission.

501
00:18:36,375 --> 00:18:38,148
Course and then went back and listened to

502
00:18:38,148 --> 00:18:40,326
each 1 of them a couple of times

503
00:18:40,625 --> 00:18:42,623
and made notes. You know, what they said,

504
00:18:42,783 --> 00:18:45,341
so I had this big list of suggestions

505
00:18:45,341 --> 00:18:46,952
and I could go through and play with

506
00:18:46,952 --> 00:18:49,339
the ideas as I decided where to go

507
00:18:49,339 --> 00:18:51,886
next. You know, it's it's so hard. I

508
00:18:51,886 --> 00:18:53,478
mean, it's it's just so lonely.

509
00:18:54,608 --> 00:18:57,638
Pass not past, but, you know, art form

510
00:18:57,638 --> 00:18:58,856
or whatever because,

511
00:18:59,233 --> 00:19:01,545
hey, you just working by yourself, you're editing

512
00:19:01,545 --> 00:19:03,082
by yourself, and

513
00:19:03,473 --> 00:19:05,168
you get stuck in your own head

514
00:19:05,782 --> 00:19:07,694
about what's good and what's not good. And

515
00:19:07,694 --> 00:19:10,799
it's it's so good to have others Take

516
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:11,198
a look and...

517
00:19:12,009 --> 00:19:13,602
Well, you're in the middle of it so

518
00:19:13,602 --> 00:19:15,753
much. No. And I can't tell if it's

519
00:19:15,753 --> 00:19:18,779
any good or not. I agree completely. You

520
00:19:18,779 --> 00:19:20,850
anything I'm looking at it. Even even...

521
00:19:21,662 --> 00:19:24,608
Obviously, when I'm, like, selecting what to what

522
00:19:24,608 --> 00:19:26,281
image images to work up, what are the

523
00:19:26,281 --> 00:19:27,954
best ones, which, you know, and what can

524
00:19:28,033 --> 00:19:30,000
I do with him? But even when I'm

525
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:30,997
when I'm adding to them.

526
00:19:31,874 --> 00:19:32,193
You know?

527
00:19:33,469 --> 00:19:35,383
Make this 1 or this 1 which which

528
00:19:35,383 --> 00:19:37,218
do I like better, which you're stronger to

529
00:19:37,218 --> 00:19:39,371
the the sky this dark or this light

530
00:19:39,371 --> 00:19:39,871
or

531
00:19:40,263 --> 00:19:42,257
the color changed a little bit or not.

532
00:19:42,735 --> 00:19:44,968
Just... You know, you just... You look at

533
00:19:44,968 --> 00:19:46,323
your own stuff so much.

534
00:19:46,961 --> 00:19:48,577
I think you just become sen.

535
00:19:49,208 --> 00:19:52,390
At least I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Interesting.

536
00:19:52,629 --> 00:19:53,106
So who...

537
00:19:53,822 --> 00:19:55,038
Did you have any notable...

538
00:19:56,782 --> 00:19:57,282
Photographers

539
00:19:57,898 --> 00:19:58,935
reviewing your work there?

540
00:20:01,407 --> 00:20:03,800
Not really photographers, but I did... I mean,

541
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:04,837
I started off my...

542
00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:06,289
My

543
00:20:08,529 --> 00:20:10,390
my morning with the bang

544
00:20:10,769 --> 00:20:12,049
right off the bat. I was... It was,

545
00:20:12,130 --> 00:20:14,390
like, jumping into cold water, you know, and

546
00:20:14,784 --> 00:20:16,059
and Sweden in the winter.

547
00:20:16,696 --> 00:20:16,776
I,

548
00:20:17,653 --> 00:20:19,406
my first 3 reviewers,

549
00:20:20,203 --> 00:20:21,739
I had Ai Smith

550
00:20:22,608 --> 00:20:24,913
or Smith, and, I guess you pronounce it.

551
00:20:25,787 --> 00:20:29,125
Paula To from the Griffin museum in Boston,

552
00:20:30,333 --> 00:20:32,246
and Mary Virginia Swanson.

553
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,751
So it I, you know, 3 really big

554
00:20:35,751 --> 00:20:36,787
names in the field,

555
00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:39,352
and just bang bang bank, you know, right

556
00:20:39,352 --> 00:20:41,367
off the bat, and they were all wonderful

557
00:20:41,664 --> 00:20:43,040
and and helpful

558
00:20:43,417 --> 00:20:43,917
and

559
00:20:47,102 --> 00:20:48,620
after that. And they were they were, like,

560
00:20:49,499 --> 00:20:51,416
there was no break between them. I literally

561
00:20:51,416 --> 00:20:52,795
went from 1 to another

562
00:20:53,426 --> 00:20:54,697
had, like, a 5... They had, like, a

563
00:20:54,697 --> 00:20:58,112
5 minute inter information between between the reviews

564
00:20:58,112 --> 00:21:00,336
or something, and you just move, you know,

565
00:21:00,574 --> 00:21:01,845
fast as you can move your stuff.

566
00:21:03,211 --> 00:21:04,803
But if there weren't really...

567
00:21:05,997 --> 00:21:07,509
There were a lot of people from, you

568
00:21:07,509 --> 00:21:08,328
know, from

569
00:21:09,022 --> 00:21:11,967
museums and galleries and photo editors, you know,

570
00:21:12,126 --> 00:21:14,558
some... National geographic and

571
00:21:18,054 --> 00:21:20,551
gentleman from the high Museum in Atlanta

572
00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:21,430
and

573
00:21:23,256 --> 00:21:25,325
a lot of places I some a guy

574
00:21:25,325 --> 00:21:26,678
from Brazil and

575
00:21:27,315 --> 00:21:28,531
you know, some collectors

576
00:21:28,906 --> 00:21:29,406
and

577
00:21:31,629 --> 00:21:33,727
But I don't honestly don't recall any

578
00:21:34,905 --> 00:21:37,942
photographers that I knew of actually doing reviews.

579
00:21:40,033 --> 00:21:41,730
What do you have to bring

580
00:21:42,267 --> 00:21:45,377
to an event like that? Does everybody bring

581
00:21:45,377 --> 00:21:45,877
this,

582
00:21:46,574 --> 00:21:48,887
like the same size photos and the same

583
00:21:48,887 --> 00:21:49,387
number

584
00:21:50,256 --> 00:21:52,163
quite there's quite a difference. I I did

585
00:21:52,163 --> 00:21:54,071
a lot of research before going, you know,

586
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:54,730
on

587
00:21:55,899 --> 00:21:59,265
people's experiences there. Reviews and what they recommended

588
00:21:59,265 --> 00:22:00,465
you do and bring,

589
00:22:02,545 --> 00:22:03,025
I

590
00:22:05,038 --> 00:22:06,656
it went on the... You know, did these

591
00:22:06,954 --> 00:22:08,232
11 by 17 prints,

592
00:22:09,828 --> 00:22:11,745
stuck them in a little nice little portfolio

593
00:22:11,745 --> 00:22:13,341
case. That were easy to get in and

594
00:22:13,341 --> 00:22:13,740
out of.

595
00:22:14,474 --> 00:22:16,729
I numbered... I... I put

596
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:19,738
little removable stickers on the back of the

597
00:22:19,738 --> 00:22:21,413
prints and numbered them in the order that

598
00:22:21,573 --> 00:22:23,248
I wanted them to be seen.

599
00:22:24,937 --> 00:22:26,610
So that I could re assemble them for

600
00:22:26,610 --> 00:22:28,545
the next review very quickly

601
00:22:29,479 --> 00:22:31,152
because they get scattered because since they lay

602
00:22:31,152 --> 00:22:33,233
them out and put them in different piles

603
00:22:33,233 --> 00:22:35,376
and you want that. As part of the

604
00:22:35,376 --> 00:22:36,011
input process.

605
00:22:36,567 --> 00:22:38,631
Pick the portfolio with about 20 prints,

606
00:22:40,786 --> 00:22:42,529
I took some you know, I had some

607
00:22:42,529 --> 00:22:43,797
business cards made up,

608
00:22:44,906 --> 00:22:45,406
and

609
00:22:46,823 --> 00:22:48,567
a other little lance ancillary alert, or things

610
00:22:48,567 --> 00:22:51,184
like some little postcards and some bookmarks that

611
00:22:51,343 --> 00:22:53,722
I took to the to the... 1 of

612
00:22:53,722 --> 00:22:55,880
the nights of most portfolio reviews they have

613
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,866
what the call walk portfolio walk through,

614
00:23:00,329 --> 00:23:02,235
where they give people a

615
00:23:03,283 --> 00:23:05,269
a table. You get 1 little, you know,

616
00:23:05,508 --> 00:23:07,494
3 by 6 foot table or something kind

617
00:23:07,494 --> 00:23:09,163
of a standard table to put your things

618
00:23:09,163 --> 00:23:11,649
out, and people from any... It's a public

619
00:23:12,198 --> 00:23:14,990
event. And anybody could come through and walk

620
00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:15,490
through

621
00:23:15,867 --> 00:23:18,281
and look at the work laid out by

622
00:23:18,658 --> 00:23:19,876
all of the photographers

623
00:23:20,333 --> 00:23:22,497
getting their work, you know, at the reviews,

624
00:23:24,164 --> 00:23:26,070
and 1 night, And I've... I used to

625
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:27,499
go to them sometimes at photo

626
00:23:28,134 --> 00:23:29,190
When I lived in Portland

627
00:23:29,897 --> 00:23:31,750
They do a port what they call a

628
00:23:32,204 --> 00:23:33,716
portfolio walk night.

629
00:23:34,432 --> 00:23:34,910
And

630
00:23:35,785 --> 00:23:37,870
and I have these little... Look, you know,

631
00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:40,100
my business cards and all these little postcards

632
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:42,569
and little bookmarks, and that was mostly a

633
00:23:42,569 --> 00:23:44,162
waste at that of event. You know, people

634
00:23:44,162 --> 00:23:46,562
just kinda walk through and I I had

635
00:23:46,562 --> 00:23:49,018
the got the unlucky draw of being way

636
00:23:49,018 --> 00:23:50,445
at the back of the room, so people

637
00:23:50,445 --> 00:23:52,108
were exhausted by the time they got.

638
00:23:53,474 --> 00:23:55,335
Because I mean, there must have been

639
00:23:55,715 --> 00:23:57,974
60 photographers with our workout

640
00:23:58,674 --> 00:24:00,055
at Photo fest. So

641
00:24:02,202 --> 00:24:03,392
So I took things like that.

642
00:24:06,881 --> 00:24:08,229
I don't know. That's... I took a book

643
00:24:08,229 --> 00:24:09,022
good notebook.

644
00:24:09,513 --> 00:24:10,544
You know, to it. I took...

645
00:24:12,131 --> 00:24:13,266
I printed out

646
00:24:14,115 --> 00:24:14,908
little pages,

647
00:24:15,701 --> 00:24:17,209
or 8 and a half mile 11 pages,

648
00:24:17,938 --> 00:24:20,484
that had the thumbnails and 1 at the

649
00:24:20,484 --> 00:24:22,871
top half of of all the images in

650
00:24:22,871 --> 00:24:23,666
my portfolio.

651
00:24:24,143 --> 00:24:25,893
Like a contact sheet know. Right.

652
00:24:26,864 --> 00:24:30,216
And then space below with questions I wanted

653
00:24:30,216 --> 00:24:30,955
to ask

654
00:24:31,653 --> 00:24:33,967
and space... So I'd flipped through my notebook

655
00:24:33,967 --> 00:24:34,845
with each review,

656
00:24:35,418 --> 00:24:37,112
and if they had a comment about a

657
00:24:37,248 --> 00:24:39,714
pick... Specific picture, I could write it on

658
00:24:39,714 --> 00:24:41,941
that thumbnail or draw an arrow to it.

659
00:24:42,512 --> 00:24:44,597
To refer to a picture very quickly

660
00:24:45,127 --> 00:24:46,712
and write notes down there.

661
00:24:47,426 --> 00:24:49,090
And then when I went to the next

662
00:24:49,090 --> 00:24:50,694
review, it just flip it and go to

663
00:24:50,694 --> 00:24:52,547
the next 1 and, you know, it had

664
00:24:53,002 --> 00:24:55,548
little information about the reviewer, so I kinda

665
00:24:55,548 --> 00:24:57,194
know who they were. Where they were from

666
00:24:57,472 --> 00:24:59,057
because I knew I had to work very

667
00:24:59,057 --> 00:24:59,557
quickly

668
00:24:59,929 --> 00:25:01,538
to make that transition

669
00:25:01,989 --> 00:25:04,392
from 1 reviewer to a next. And

670
00:25:04,859 --> 00:25:06,615
I guess I'm just so obsessive that I

671
00:25:06,615 --> 00:25:09,487
was super prepared for it in, like... So

672
00:25:09,567 --> 00:25:10,843
I went very smoothly.

673
00:25:12,533 --> 00:25:14,363
As as I would go go through those

674
00:25:14,363 --> 00:25:16,590
sessions. I would... I just... Because I was

675
00:25:16,590 --> 00:25:18,499
putting so much into it. I just made...

676
00:25:18,737 --> 00:25:20,510
Did a lot of research and made sure

677
00:25:21,218 --> 00:25:23,228
I was as prepared as I could possibly

678
00:25:23,285 --> 00:25:25,137
be. And I think that helped me get

679
00:25:25,193 --> 00:25:25,988
the most out of it.

680
00:25:27,101 --> 00:25:28,214
Where to have it in Houston?

681
00:25:29,487 --> 00:25:30,123
This was that

682
00:25:31,414 --> 00:25:32,852
I think it was called the White Hall

683
00:25:32,852 --> 00:25:35,409
hotel, which is an old hotel and... Right

684
00:25:35,409 --> 00:25:37,107
downtown. Yeah. Yeah. Downtown

685
00:25:37,566 --> 00:25:38,605
Houston. Yeah. Yeah.

686
00:25:39,658 --> 00:25:42,311
You, very nice place, a nice, big

687
00:25:43,088 --> 00:25:45,321
big venue for it. A lot of space

688
00:25:45,321 --> 00:25:47,554
in the holes with fairly decent lighting in

689
00:25:47,554 --> 00:25:48,910
the holes, Some, you know,

690
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,536
I could see how that could be a

691
00:25:53,472 --> 00:25:54,829
a downer or if they didn't have a

692
00:25:54,829 --> 00:25:55,706
lot of good space.

693
00:25:56,757 --> 00:25:58,584
Because most people... There are a lot of

694
00:25:58,584 --> 00:26:00,491
people who weren't in a review. At any

695
00:26:00,491 --> 00:26:02,001
given time. They were between reviews,

696
00:26:02,716 --> 00:26:03,034
you know?

697
00:26:04,004 --> 00:26:04,243
So...

698
00:26:04,962 --> 00:26:06,239
But it was it it was good. It

699
00:26:06,239 --> 00:26:08,155
was well run, and, they had some...

700
00:26:08,954 --> 00:26:09,454
Events

701
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:12,865
for the attendees, you could get on buses

702
00:26:12,865 --> 00:26:14,636
at night. And went... At night, we went

703
00:26:14,636 --> 00:26:16,392
over to see some other exhibits in the

704
00:26:16,392 --> 00:26:18,786
town because it an event like Photo fast

705
00:26:18,786 --> 00:26:20,803
or or or photo.

706
00:26:22,152 --> 00:26:24,060
I guess, most of these big review events

707
00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:25,355
that the reviews are

708
00:26:25,809 --> 00:26:28,217
an ancillary part of a larger

709
00:26:28,671 --> 00:26:30,739
sometimes month long photo festival.

710
00:26:31,629 --> 00:26:32,129
With,

711
00:26:32,586 --> 00:26:35,858
you know, photo exhibits going on at, you

712
00:26:35,858 --> 00:26:36,017
know,

713
00:26:36,895 --> 00:26:38,592
15 to 30 different venues

714
00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:41,446
and they have these things in other countries

715
00:26:41,446 --> 00:26:43,115
too. Some really big ones. I haven't ever

716
00:26:43,115 --> 00:26:45,339
been to them, but might go someday.

717
00:26:46,308 --> 00:26:48,294
Combine it with our travels. No. What what

718
00:26:48,294 --> 00:26:49,248
an opportunity.

719
00:26:49,804 --> 00:26:51,394
Did you tell him the story about

720
00:26:52,586 --> 00:26:54,334
taking a class from Gary Winter grande?

721
00:26:55,463 --> 00:26:57,457
No. In 20 minutes, You don't have much

722
00:26:57,457 --> 00:27:00,009
that's true. You know Real chat. Although other

723
00:27:00,009 --> 00:27:01,684
the way... We had some nice lunches. I

724
00:27:01,684 --> 00:27:04,157
tried to connect with people there lunch and

725
00:27:04,157 --> 00:27:04,976
all and

726
00:27:06,399 --> 00:27:08,067
and that was good... I guess another name,

727
00:27:08,226 --> 00:27:10,291
I'll I'll drop is is while I was

728
00:27:10,291 --> 00:27:12,435
there as a student at Ut,

729
00:27:13,563 --> 00:27:14,063
I

730
00:27:14,517 --> 00:27:15,017
I

731
00:27:16,028 --> 00:27:16,846
started working

732
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:18,493
as a lab assistant,

733
00:27:19,845 --> 00:27:20,959
for the intro,

734
00:27:22,009 --> 00:27:23,685
courses. So, you know, students would come out

735
00:27:23,685 --> 00:27:25,919
in their first photography course ever, you know,

736
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:28,633
with appreciate, our prints, and I was very

737
00:27:28,633 --> 00:27:29,292
good at

738
00:27:30,243 --> 00:27:32,568
you know, tell them what... Given them suggestions

739
00:27:32,703 --> 00:27:34,211
and tell them how to... What was wrong

740
00:27:34,211 --> 00:27:35,799
with the picture, what they might do and

741
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:37,386
stuff. So they they kinda put me to

742
00:27:37,386 --> 00:27:39,713
work, pretty quickly there after... After my first

743
00:27:39,713 --> 00:27:41,148
course while I guess I was in my

744
00:27:41,148 --> 00:27:41,706
second course.

745
00:27:42,583 --> 00:27:42,823
And,

746
00:27:43,939 --> 00:27:45,614
just kinda just doing general work. Well,

747
00:27:47,143 --> 00:27:48,889
1 of my little duties was I got

748
00:27:48,889 --> 00:27:49,525
to drive,

749
00:27:50,795 --> 00:27:52,304
walker Evans around the campus.

750
00:27:53,257 --> 00:27:55,957
He came he came for an advanced class.

751
00:27:56,924 --> 00:27:59,066
And the the couple of the, you know,

752
00:27:59,225 --> 00:28:01,550
faculty members 1 who of whom was my

753
00:28:01,685 --> 00:28:04,161
supervisor said when we've, you know, He doesn't

754
00:28:04,161 --> 00:28:05,594
walk too well, We've got get him from

755
00:28:05,594 --> 00:28:08,220
the communications building over to the student union

756
00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:09,653
or something where we're gonna have lunch. We've

757
00:28:09,653 --> 00:28:11,085
got a room set up there and all.

758
00:28:11,483 --> 00:28:12,677
And we did get him from there to

759
00:28:12,677 --> 00:28:14,930
there. So can you come and and pick

760
00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:16,369
us up at such and such a time

761
00:28:16,369 --> 00:28:17,890
and drive this over to get us there?

762
00:28:18,049 --> 00:28:20,049
Because, you know, driving around the campus and

763
00:28:20,049 --> 00:28:21,809
park, know, their campus like Ut.

764
00:28:22,384 --> 00:28:24,305
Is is a challenge. You know, There are

765
00:28:24,305 --> 00:28:26,384
only certain places you can go. So anyway,

766
00:28:26,865 --> 00:28:28,065
III

767
00:28:28,065 --> 00:28:30,144
drove walker For about 5 minutes.

768
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:33,036
And got to participate... You know, got to

769
00:28:33,036 --> 00:28:34,954
sit in on his... His little session that

770
00:28:34,954 --> 00:28:37,271
he had with some graduate students there just

771
00:28:37,271 --> 00:28:38,470
because I had some connections.

772
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,547
Oh he didn't think much of it at

773
00:28:40,547 --> 00:28:41,577
the time. No.

774
00:28:42,449 --> 00:28:43,716
Well, I know he was a big deal,

775
00:28:43,954 --> 00:28:46,506
you know because it got... But and had

776
00:28:46,506 --> 00:28:48,415
my photo history class yet. So I hadn't

777
00:28:48,415 --> 00:28:51,300
really got into the the Fsa and

778
00:28:51,993 --> 00:28:53,663
and all of the, you know, important

779
00:28:54,617 --> 00:28:55,253
work that

780
00:28:56,861 --> 00:28:58,614
Then walker Evans did for sure.

781
00:28:59,888 --> 00:29:00,207
Well,

782
00:29:01,721 --> 00:29:02,597
that's like my...

783
00:29:03,807 --> 00:29:06,595
My son works at at the other Ut.

784
00:29:07,551 --> 00:29:08,369
Yep. Tennessee,

785
00:29:08,746 --> 00:29:10,737
and we were over there visiting. We're just

786
00:29:10,737 --> 00:29:11,693
walking through the town.

787
00:29:12,743 --> 00:29:14,276
And there's a little museum

788
00:29:15,127 --> 00:29:17,853
in downtown downtown Knoxville. That's

789
00:29:18,863 --> 00:29:20,929
owned by the university. Nat happen to have

790
00:29:20,929 --> 00:29:21,088
a...

791
00:29:22,694 --> 00:29:23,648
Exhibit up that week.

792
00:29:24,364 --> 00:29:25,660
It was the walker Evans

793
00:29:26,432 --> 00:29:28,580
work With what's in, William.

794
00:29:29,232 --> 00:29:29,630
Ag,

795
00:29:31,062 --> 00:29:33,608
photograph for this. I I keep forgetting the

796
00:29:33,608 --> 00:29:35,439
name of that book. Let us now play...

797
00:29:35,677 --> 00:29:38,169
Praise... Famous men. Yeah. There you go. Thank

798
00:29:38,169 --> 00:29:40,089
you. It's got too many words for me

799
00:29:40,089 --> 00:29:42,169
to remember. Yeah. It's a it's an awkward

800
00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:44,490
title actually. It is. It's an awkward title.

801
00:29:44,664 --> 00:29:46,180
And I dragged my wife in there, Like,

802
00:29:46,259 --> 00:29:46,977
oh, wow.

803
00:29:47,536 --> 00:29:49,529
Look at this. Who would have fuck this?

804
00:29:50,806 --> 00:29:51,045
Yeah.

805
00:29:51,843 --> 00:29:52,321
And

806
00:29:52,959 --> 00:29:53,597
what a treat.

807
00:29:55,206 --> 00:29:55,365
Anyway.

808
00:29:56,798 --> 00:29:58,389
I know you're gonna tell us about some

809
00:29:58,389 --> 00:30:00,538
exhibits you have coming up. But before we

810
00:30:00,538 --> 00:30:02,050
get into the detail on those,

811
00:30:04,294 --> 00:30:06,452
you you said something to me before we

812
00:30:06,452 --> 00:30:06,772
started it.

813
00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:09,888
You showed some of your worked to some

814
00:30:09,888 --> 00:30:10,208
folks.

815
00:30:10,927 --> 00:30:12,226
Mh. And

816
00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:16,378
turned a a couple really nice

817
00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:17,544
exhibitions for you.

818
00:30:18,417 --> 00:30:20,797
What what exactly did you do? How did

819
00:30:20,797 --> 00:30:21,297
you

820
00:30:22,004 --> 00:30:24,160
I assume you had a box of 20

821
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,634
some prints or portfolio, 20 some prints.

822
00:30:27,433 --> 00:30:29,109
How did that work for you? What what

823
00:30:29,109 --> 00:30:30,067
did you do? I have a lot of

824
00:30:30,067 --> 00:30:32,717
people asking me this question. And And I

825
00:30:32,717 --> 00:30:34,015
actually, Have I've got question

826
00:30:35,191 --> 00:30:37,346
myself because I'm ready to do something very

827
00:30:37,346 --> 00:30:37,745
similar.

828
00:30:38,224 --> 00:30:40,474
Okay. In my area. So it... Yeah. Well,

829
00:30:40,714 --> 00:30:42,951
also a little bit about that. After I...

830
00:30:43,591 --> 00:30:45,130
After I kinda got things

831
00:30:45,588 --> 00:30:48,385
my direction a little more established to at

832
00:30:48,545 --> 00:30:49,105
Photo fest.

833
00:30:49,758 --> 00:30:52,710
Started of working building, you know, refining my

834
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:53,108
portfolio,

835
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:57,974
shoot continuing to shoot on the cruise as

836
00:30:57,974 --> 00:30:59,032
we go on

837
00:31:01,492 --> 00:31:04,115
at least 6 cruises a year. Holy my

838
00:31:04,115 --> 00:31:04,433
cow.

839
00:31:05,069 --> 00:31:07,160
Probably. Yeah. I mean, this is

840
00:31:07,946 --> 00:31:09,694
And know, somebody 1 of the guys I

841
00:31:09,694 --> 00:31:12,076
was showing this step too and I've kinda

842
00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:13,824
picked up the phrase and my article that

843
00:31:13,982 --> 00:31:15,174
I'm that I'm writing for you.

844
00:31:16,302 --> 00:31:17,655
He looked at the stuff, and he said,

845
00:31:17,973 --> 00:31:19,883
you're catching lightning in a bottle here.

846
00:31:20,838 --> 00:31:21,873
Yeah know, because I was saying,

847
00:31:23,226 --> 00:31:25,238
I was kinda feeling bad because

848
00:31:25,629 --> 00:31:26,687
I'd go on a cruise

849
00:31:27,224 --> 00:31:28,362
and maybe get

850
00:31:29,138 --> 00:31:31,611
1 1 portfolio where the image out of

851
00:31:31,611 --> 00:31:34,402
it out of shooting hundreds of pictures, you

852
00:31:34,402 --> 00:31:34,562
know?

853
00:31:36,726 --> 00:31:37,226
And

854
00:31:38,317 --> 00:31:38,714
I

855
00:31:40,463 --> 00:31:40,963
would

856
00:31:42,372 --> 00:31:43,962
I kinda felt bad about that, you know,

857
00:31:44,122 --> 00:31:44,917
but the guy said,

858
00:31:45,489 --> 00:31:47,717
Well, that's just the nature of the stuff

859
00:31:47,717 --> 00:31:49,786
you're shooting. And I kinda remember it back,

860
00:31:49,866 --> 00:31:52,731
you know, when... Well, that Gary Win died.

861
00:31:53,224 --> 00:31:56,256
With hundreds and hundreds of undeveloped roles. Yeah.

862
00:31:57,453 --> 00:31:58,969
He would he would shoot and shoot and

863
00:31:58,969 --> 00:32:00,186
shoot going a day

864
00:32:00,897 --> 00:32:02,805
and shoot 20 or 30 roles,

865
00:32:04,157 --> 00:32:05,906
and he would actually... It was actually his

866
00:32:05,906 --> 00:32:06,406
practice

867
00:32:07,496 --> 00:32:07,996
to

868
00:32:08,944 --> 00:32:09,845
let the film

869
00:32:10,224 --> 00:32:12,464
sit for a couple of years before he

870
00:32:12,464 --> 00:32:14,625
even developed it. Yeah. And then then he

871
00:32:14,625 --> 00:32:17,105
would develop it because he wanted to he

872
00:32:17,105 --> 00:32:19,599
wanted to look at the contact sheets,

873
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:21,619
it

874
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,819
not remembering

875
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,099
the shoot

876
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,732
as if there were somebody else's pictures. Mh.

877
00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:28,108
To separate,

878
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:31,509
you know, the work and the passion that

879
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:33,659
you'd actually put into the shooting experience,

880
00:32:34,948 --> 00:32:35,846
Which can

881
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,766
make you fall in love with a picture

882
00:32:38,766 --> 00:32:40,675
that's really not very good. N.

883
00:32:41,804 --> 00:32:43,558
He wanted to go back I can't wait

884
00:32:43,558 --> 00:32:44,914
that long it, and you don't have to

885
00:32:44,914 --> 00:32:46,748
with digital. That's kind of hard to.

886
00:32:48,342 --> 00:32:49,857
But, anyway, so I would

887
00:32:52,815 --> 00:32:55,142
I I started... I just kept shooting

888
00:32:55,595 --> 00:32:58,614
and, you know, finishing pictures that I thought.

889
00:32:59,742 --> 00:33:01,733
Were were good enough to make the cut.

890
00:33:03,326 --> 00:33:05,419
And eventually, I was getting,

891
00:33:05,875 --> 00:33:07,388
you know, up to where I felt good

892
00:33:07,388 --> 00:33:10,059
about a. A portfolio of

893
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,119
30 or 40 images,

894
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:15,259
and then started

895
00:33:16,293 --> 00:33:19,079
fairly shortly after photo fest, I would... I

896
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:20,512
started sending, you know,

897
00:33:21,228 --> 00:33:21,967
images off

898
00:33:22,343 --> 00:33:25,062
to the various, you know, call for entries,

899
00:33:25,459 --> 00:33:26,651
you know, things like that.

900
00:33:27,366 --> 00:33:27,684
And,

901
00:33:30,464 --> 00:33:33,021
start... I started getting some hits on them.

902
00:33:33,497 --> 00:33:35,801
1 particular image. III

903
00:33:35,801 --> 00:33:36,039
shot.

904
00:33:37,786 --> 00:33:40,431
I photographed a picture of some

905
00:33:40,979 --> 00:33:42,037
people in a,

906
00:33:42,654 --> 00:33:44,728
kind of an indoor area of a ship

907
00:33:44,728 --> 00:33:46,642
that called the atrium, I think.

908
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:48,795
Or something like back later.

909
00:33:49,752 --> 00:33:49,992
And,

910
00:33:50,884 --> 00:33:53,596
No. Sal. Because the sun comes through big

911
00:33:54,713 --> 00:33:55,750
windows on the top,

912
00:33:56,547 --> 00:33:58,403
and there was this gigantic

913
00:33:59,179 --> 00:34:00,397
2 story high

914
00:34:01,428 --> 00:34:02,406
bank of

915
00:34:02,784 --> 00:34:04,539
artificial pink flowers behind them.

916
00:34:05,816 --> 00:34:07,810
And I set up the tripod there,

917
00:34:08,463 --> 00:34:10,237
because I thought it was a great scene

918
00:34:10,692 --> 00:34:11,431
and then

919
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,672
just kind of sat back there next to

920
00:34:14,672 --> 00:34:15,411
the tripod

921
00:34:16,678 --> 00:34:19,230
with auto release, kinda watching it out of

922
00:34:19,230 --> 00:34:21,065
the corner of my eye, and after a

923
00:34:21,065 --> 00:34:22,660
few minutes, you know, didn't like I was

924
00:34:22,660 --> 00:34:24,654
doing anything, So nobody paid attention, and people

925
00:34:24,654 --> 00:34:25,930
would come and go from the pool.

926
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:27,377
Finally,

927
00:34:29,604 --> 00:34:31,274
couple of women came in and gotten the

928
00:34:31,274 --> 00:34:32,489
pool that were amazingly

929
00:34:33,341 --> 00:34:35,806
dressed in bathing suits or almost alike.

930
00:34:36,458 --> 00:34:38,527
And both of them reached up at exactly

931
00:34:38,527 --> 00:34:41,472
the same time and start of and started

932
00:34:41,472 --> 00:34:43,780
kind of p their hair with the same

933
00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:45,713
body gestures and and

934
00:34:46,343 --> 00:34:47,697
And it would it turned out to be

935
00:34:47,697 --> 00:34:50,088
an amazing picture, and I I got that,

936
00:34:50,247 --> 00:34:53,036
and I thought, oh, wow. This said this

937
00:34:53,036 --> 00:34:54,709
could be the best picture. I ever take

938
00:34:54,709 --> 00:34:57,054
on a cruise ship. Because it was just

939
00:34:57,268 --> 00:34:59,333
everything about it was was perfect on it

940
00:34:59,413 --> 00:35:01,636
It was very strong and, you know,

941
00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:04,359
created kind of the storytelling

942
00:35:05,783 --> 00:35:06,900
ambiguity that I wanted.

943
00:35:08,415 --> 00:35:10,271
And I sent that in, and

944
00:35:10,807 --> 00:35:13,360
it started getting that image got started getting

945
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:13,679
accepted.

946
00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:17,690
At various places. It was in the...

947
00:35:19,769 --> 00:35:21,869
Well, the annual member show for the Texas

948
00:35:22,089 --> 00:35:23,230
photographic society

949
00:35:23,530 --> 00:35:24,030
and

950
00:35:24,344 --> 00:35:26,193
an exhibit in Oregon

951
00:35:26,566 --> 00:35:29,526
and something in California, I think. And

952
00:35:30,137 --> 00:35:31,670
so I'd continued that

953
00:35:32,856 --> 00:35:34,691
to just start to to get some input,

954
00:35:34,850 --> 00:35:35,988
but mostly just kinda

955
00:35:36,445 --> 00:35:36,765
build

956
00:35:37,323 --> 00:35:38,222
a little resume,

957
00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:40,114
you know, of of images.

958
00:35:42,362 --> 00:35:42,862
That

959
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,036
that I'd had,

960
00:35:45,550 --> 00:35:46,050
and

961
00:35:47,702 --> 00:35:48,202
started

962
00:35:48,817 --> 00:35:49,317
then

963
00:35:49,868 --> 00:35:51,536
I guess in the last fall,

964
00:35:52,331 --> 00:35:54,579
I decided I was ready to start

965
00:35:55,509 --> 00:35:58,154
trying to get a solo show, not just

966
00:35:58,623 --> 00:36:00,689
you know, 1 picture hair and there.

967
00:36:01,324 --> 00:36:02,755
I felt I had a strong enough body

968
00:36:02,755 --> 00:36:04,447
of work and enough good images

969
00:36:04,820 --> 00:36:05,639
to put up

970
00:36:06,348 --> 00:36:07,385
20 or 30 prints.

971
00:36:08,342 --> 00:36:08,842
And

972
00:36:10,097 --> 00:36:10,894
so I started,

973
00:36:12,569 --> 00:36:14,483
just kind I've been making notes of the

974
00:36:14,483 --> 00:36:16,489
places that dead vest you know, and it

975
00:36:16,489 --> 00:36:18,101
picked up some things from,

976
00:36:19,428 --> 00:36:21,255
I don't know. I think Lens culture did

977
00:36:21,255 --> 00:36:21,755
a

978
00:36:22,287 --> 00:36:24,449
article once that was, like, you you know,

979
00:36:24,610 --> 00:36:27,010
30 top places to submit your work or

980
00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:29,409
something like that, and I just kinda grabbed

981
00:36:29,409 --> 00:36:31,329
all that information I had a big list

982
00:36:31,329 --> 00:36:33,030
to start going down. And

983
00:36:34,463 --> 00:36:35,582
have started doing that,

984
00:36:37,899 --> 00:36:38,139
the,

985
00:36:40,057 --> 00:36:41,415
and that's how I got a

986
00:36:42,387 --> 00:36:42,625
I guess,

987
00:36:44,689 --> 00:36:45,403
in the fall,

988
00:36:46,276 --> 00:36:47,387
I got a hit from the

989
00:36:48,419 --> 00:36:49,213
the viewpoint,

990
00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:51,950
photographic

991
00:36:53,115 --> 00:36:56,865
gallery, I think are in in sacramento, California.

992
00:36:57,475 --> 00:36:58,530
They had an annual

993
00:36:58,839 --> 00:37:01,079
time when their committee was reviewing things, and

994
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:02,599
they said, got this thing I said, we

995
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:05,079
would like to to show your images. So,

996
00:37:06,214 --> 00:37:09,188
I have a a show of 25 prints

997
00:37:09,407 --> 00:37:10,604
going up at Viewpoint,

998
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,356
on May eighth. That'll be up there from,

999
00:37:15,408 --> 00:37:17,879
May eighth to June first, and I'm going

1000
00:37:17,879 --> 00:37:20,269
there for a to attend a reception on

1001
00:37:20,429 --> 00:37:21,088
May nineteenth.

1002
00:37:22,023 --> 00:37:22,762
My daughter

1003
00:37:23,234 --> 00:37:24,672
lives not too far away,

1004
00:37:25,791 --> 00:37:28,029
about 2 hours away in Sal.

1005
00:37:28,588 --> 00:37:30,746
So I'm gonna fly in there to monterey,

1006
00:37:30,906 --> 00:37:32,358
and then they're all gonna come out for

1007
00:37:32,358 --> 00:37:33,946
the little reception, so I get to see

1008
00:37:33,946 --> 00:37:35,297
it. I get some nice,

1009
00:37:36,885 --> 00:37:37,385
gallery

1010
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:40,538
installation shots that those are some of the

1011
00:37:40,538 --> 00:37:43,253
things I learned from for Mary Virginia Swanson

1012
00:37:43,253 --> 00:37:45,635
was to, you know, show your work on

1013
00:37:45,635 --> 00:37:48,971
your website, hanging on walls, not just a

1014
00:37:48,971 --> 00:37:52,117
click through port, foley, but... Yeah. Good.

1015
00:37:52,736 --> 00:37:54,574
She said, even even if you hang have

1016
00:37:54,574 --> 00:37:55,932
to hang them on your own wall at

1017
00:37:55,932 --> 00:37:57,050
home and photograph them,

1018
00:37:57,864 --> 00:37:59,543
do it. You know, because you want to

1019
00:37:59,543 --> 00:38:00,522
show your work

1020
00:38:01,141 --> 00:38:03,778
in a frame or behind gl pre of

1021
00:38:03,778 --> 00:38:04,976
glass on a wall.

1022
00:38:07,864 --> 00:38:10,088
And the the other exhibit that I come

1023
00:38:10,088 --> 00:38:10,803
up with was,

1024
00:38:13,742 --> 00:38:14,242
I

1025
00:38:15,251 --> 00:38:16,204
submitted a bunch of

1026
00:38:17,890 --> 00:38:19,801
actually sent out a bunch of query emails

1027
00:38:19,801 --> 00:38:21,017
says Denver

1028
00:38:21,951 --> 00:38:24,839
bien any month of photography was approaching

1029
00:38:25,549 --> 00:38:26,665
a couple of years ago.

1030
00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:30,493
And I was way too late. I'm I

1031
00:38:30,493 --> 00:38:30,812
was, like,

1032
00:38:32,407 --> 00:38:34,262
4 or 5 months ahead of

1033
00:38:35,051 --> 00:38:36,877
of when the event occurred,

1034
00:38:37,592 --> 00:38:37,830
you know,

1035
00:38:38,624 --> 00:38:42,196
sending pitch letters with a few images below

1036
00:38:42,196 --> 00:38:43,570
and and all about

1037
00:38:43,959 --> 00:38:47,070
to the various galleries that tended to show

1038
00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:49,223
photography during the month of photography in Denver.

1039
00:38:49,861 --> 00:38:52,174
I should have been pitching them 2 years

1040
00:38:52,174 --> 00:38:53,371
in advance. It seems.

1041
00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:56,168
And but but 1 of the 1 of

1042
00:38:56,168 --> 00:38:58,234
the guys there said, well, you know... Yeah.

1043
00:38:58,393 --> 00:39:00,141
It's too late. We're not, you know, to

1044
00:39:00,141 --> 00:39:02,308
do that said, but... But after it's all

1045
00:39:02,308 --> 00:39:04,386
over, stop by sometime time, and I'll look

1046
00:39:04,386 --> 00:39:04,945
at your work.

1047
00:39:06,064 --> 00:39:08,882
And this was a place in golden colorado

1048
00:39:09,101 --> 00:39:09,500
call the,

1049
00:39:10,713 --> 00:39:12,389
the Foot hills are at center, which is

1050
00:39:12,389 --> 00:39:14,005
a big art center there

1051
00:39:14,463 --> 00:39:14,963
that

1052
00:39:15,739 --> 00:39:17,516
combines exhibits with

1053
00:39:18,545 --> 00:39:20,717
education. So there's a lot of arc courses,

1054
00:39:20,933 --> 00:39:22,605
and, you know, painting and,

1055
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,538
some photography

1056
00:39:24,993 --> 00:39:25,493
and

1057
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,335
workshops and

1058
00:39:28,501 --> 00:39:28,898
sculpture,

1059
00:39:29,373 --> 00:39:31,356
ceramics. They've got a big studio and all,

1060
00:39:31,991 --> 00:39:32,943
for that kind of thing.

1061
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:35,589
And so I went in and showed the

1062
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:36,630
guy the portfolio,

1063
00:39:37,429 --> 00:39:37,829
and

1064
00:39:38,949 --> 00:39:41,429
and he was just really excited about it.

1065
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:43,521
He was it was it was a pleasure

1066
00:39:43,521 --> 00:39:44,955
shu in the work. He'd like, flipped through

1067
00:39:44,955 --> 00:39:46,868
a thing he would go, oh, wow. Again.

1068
00:39:47,027 --> 00:39:48,006
It was just really

1069
00:39:48,781 --> 00:39:50,590
demons. It was very it was

1070
00:39:51,347 --> 00:39:53,740
gratifying just to see somebody with... That could

1071
00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:55,814
respond to the work that that well.

1072
00:39:57,568 --> 00:40:00,222
So we've I signed a contract with him

1073
00:40:00,774 --> 00:40:01,811
to do a

1074
00:40:03,087 --> 00:40:03,826
a show

1075
00:40:04,204 --> 00:40:06,378
that's gonna run 3 months in

1076
00:40:07,155 --> 00:40:08,431
20 25,

1077
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:09,867
most of the summer there.

1078
00:40:12,032 --> 00:40:14,043
And we're gonna do some really

1079
00:40:14,817 --> 00:40:16,829
special things that come up with some money

1080
00:40:17,363 --> 00:40:19,512
to to help me fund, like,

1081
00:40:20,083 --> 00:40:22,548
some really big images, you know. Like, for

1082
00:40:22,548 --> 00:40:24,218
this viewpoint show, I'm doing,

1083
00:40:25,411 --> 00:40:27,398
printing the biggest prints I can make on

1084
00:40:27,398 --> 00:40:30,676
my Eps and 38 80, a v old

1085
00:40:30,676 --> 00:40:32,430
printer if you've ever worked with 1 of

1086
00:40:32,430 --> 00:40:32,669
those,

1087
00:40:33,307 --> 00:40:36,416
really nice. But but 11 by 17,

1088
00:40:38,423 --> 00:40:39,620
17 by 22,

1089
00:40:40,099 --> 00:40:42,492
paper is the largest it'll take. So I'm

1090
00:40:42,492 --> 00:40:45,762
doing, you know, 7... Printing on 17 by

1091
00:40:45,762 --> 00:40:48,569
22 and 20 by 20 formats ads. For

1092
00:40:48,569 --> 00:40:51,849
this viewpoint show. And I mentioned to this,

1093
00:40:53,369 --> 00:40:55,849
the curator at the Foot Hills gallery, I

1094
00:40:55,849 --> 00:40:58,025
said, So that's kinda what I'm I'm doing.

1095
00:40:58,184 --> 00:41:00,105
He said, he said, oh, I was thinking

1096
00:41:00,105 --> 00:41:00,825
much bigger.

1097
00:41:01,864 --> 00:41:02,664
So we'll see.

1098
00:41:04,025 --> 00:41:06,195
So So I'm think... My... The thing the

1099
00:41:06,195 --> 00:41:07,869
thing I don't wanna get into a situation

1100
00:41:07,869 --> 00:41:09,486
than where I end up, maybe

1101
00:41:10,502 --> 00:41:11,778
spend them a lot of money on things

1102
00:41:11,778 --> 00:41:12,894
that are gonna be too big for me

1103
00:41:12,894 --> 00:41:14,091
to ship around to another.

1104
00:41:14,744 --> 00:41:16,654
I mean, live here in Colorado. I can

1105
00:41:16,733 --> 00:41:18,246
I can deliver this stuff to him in

1106
00:41:18,246 --> 00:41:18,803
my car?

1107
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:20,099
But,

1108
00:41:20,554 --> 00:41:22,146
you know, I'm I'm concerned about.

1109
00:41:22,798 --> 00:41:23,298
Spending

1110
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:26,398
hundreds and hundreds or thousands of dollars

1111
00:41:27,011 --> 00:41:28,919
on something that I I can't even get

1112
00:41:28,919 --> 00:41:29,714
in my front door,

1113
00:41:30,684 --> 00:41:32,364
Yeah I have to be careful about that.

1114
00:41:32,605 --> 00:41:34,125
But maybe a lot of people are, like,

1115
00:41:34,684 --> 00:41:35,505
printing things

1116
00:41:36,605 --> 00:41:38,284
and just rolling them up,

1117
00:41:39,097 --> 00:41:39,597
and

1118
00:41:39,972 --> 00:41:41,085
sticking them up with magnets.

1119
00:41:41,721 --> 00:41:42,300
I think

1120
00:41:42,833 --> 00:41:43,333
photography

1121
00:41:43,788 --> 00:41:45,321
has gotten so expensive

1122
00:41:45,855 --> 00:41:47,603
the shipping, the presentation,

1123
00:41:48,572 --> 00:41:51,299
And I found that galleries are becoming

1124
00:41:52,071 --> 00:41:54,161
more and more collaborative because they know

1125
00:41:54,775 --> 00:41:57,240
that, you know, their expenses are going up

1126
00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:57,479
to.

1127
00:41:58,369 --> 00:42:00,046
And so much, you know, is put on

1128
00:42:00,046 --> 00:42:02,222
the back of the photographer these days

1129
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,000
to

1130
00:42:04,117 --> 00:42:06,512
to ship things both ways to provide everything

1131
00:42:06,512 --> 00:42:08,523
to buy all the frame have you know,

1132
00:42:09,081 --> 00:42:09,879
all that stuff.

1133
00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:11,554
And that's

1134
00:42:14,106 --> 00:42:15,940
that's an important aspect when you get into

1135
00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:17,079
this. This

1136
00:42:18,429 --> 00:42:19,949
But, yeah. So I just... For that 1,

1137
00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:21,550
I just showed him things, and I've got

1138
00:42:21,550 --> 00:42:23,789
a big list of things. That's that's how

1139
00:42:23,949 --> 00:42:24,670
I... You know.

1140
00:42:25,562 --> 00:42:26,517
I pitched it

1141
00:42:27,870 --> 00:42:30,496
to you. And and your, you know, street

1142
00:42:30,496 --> 00:42:31,473
photography magazine

1143
00:42:31,848 --> 00:42:33,917
is I thought my... Well my first pitch

1144
00:42:33,917 --> 00:42:36,081
was Bob is a street photography.

1145
00:42:36,638 --> 00:42:38,867
Yeah. I I'm wondering real shit,

1146
00:42:39,742 --> 00:42:40,618
photograph people.

1147
00:42:41,732 --> 00:42:43,483
I think it is, but maybe it's not,

1148
00:42:43,643 --> 00:42:46,044
you know? Yeah. Well, I wanna point something

1149
00:42:46,044 --> 00:42:48,590
out about about your approach that could help

1150
00:42:48,590 --> 00:42:49,146
other people.

1151
00:42:51,389 --> 00:42:54,036
As a magazine most of the time or

1152
00:42:54,729 --> 00:42:55,683
a lot of the time,

1153
00:42:57,830 --> 00:43:00,715
are it inquiries for publishing in the magazine

1154
00:43:00,772 --> 00:43:01,224
are

1155
00:43:01,743 --> 00:43:04,215
Hey, here's my website. Look at my stuff.

1156
00:43:05,811 --> 00:43:07,565
Well, you know, when you get 50 of

1157
00:43:07,565 --> 00:43:09,342
those a week, it's kinda hard

1158
00:43:09,879 --> 00:43:10,756
to look at all of them.

1159
00:43:11,488 --> 00:43:13,876
So when somebody actually uses my name.

1160
00:43:14,751 --> 00:43:16,047
Yeah. And

1161
00:43:16,821 --> 00:43:18,015
has something to say,

1162
00:43:18,651 --> 00:43:20,244
which is exactly what you did.

1163
00:43:22,088 --> 00:43:24,155
That catches is our attention. That's not just

1164
00:43:24,155 --> 00:43:26,461
us. I mean, that that applies to anybody

1165
00:43:26,461 --> 00:43:28,449
or... Sure. I I think that goes through

1166
00:43:28,449 --> 00:43:28,687
to Mike.

1167
00:43:29,498 --> 00:43:31,969
My year is working in public relations. Yes.

1168
00:43:32,129 --> 00:43:34,121
About help. Like, send a news release, it's

1169
00:43:34,121 --> 00:43:35,817
a pitch. You're going to a media

1170
00:43:36,274 --> 00:43:36,831
organization, and

1171
00:43:37,643 --> 00:43:39,735
gallery or Museum or a

1172
00:43:40,350 --> 00:43:41,544
website, a podcast.

1173
00:43:42,021 --> 00:43:43,954
You know, their they're media

1174
00:43:44,727 --> 00:43:46,558
in in a way, You know, So I

1175
00:43:46,558 --> 00:43:49,226
try to customize it and tailor it and

1176
00:43:49,524 --> 00:43:51,221
and and real realize

1177
00:43:51,917 --> 00:43:53,992
the flood of stuff that you must be

1178
00:43:53,992 --> 00:43:54,311
getting,

1179
00:43:55,363 --> 00:43:57,277
It's a lot. And we're just... We're little.

1180
00:43:58,394 --> 00:43:58,633
Yep.

1181
00:43:59,511 --> 00:44:00,947
You know. So I got a big list.

1182
00:44:01,186 --> 00:44:02,940
I'm just going down the list, and, yeah.

1183
00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:04,557
I'm continually kinda

1184
00:44:08,608 --> 00:44:09,665
continually struggle

1185
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,892
with how much time can I

1186
00:44:12,282 --> 00:44:14,347
put into actually creating the work?

1187
00:44:14,982 --> 00:44:16,809
You know, I've got tons of images that

1188
00:44:16,889 --> 00:44:17,786
I'd like to

1189
00:44:19,033 --> 00:44:20,701
explore and work up and see if I

1190
00:44:20,701 --> 00:44:22,626
can make a good image out of it.

1191
00:44:22,786 --> 00:44:24,142
You know, the when I shoot,

1192
00:44:25,019 --> 00:44:26,455
I'm just capturing the bones.

1193
00:44:27,332 --> 00:44:29,826
You know? Is is is the moment there

1194
00:44:29,964 --> 00:44:31,320
is the composition there.

1195
00:44:32,054 --> 00:44:33,974
And then I I'll work for days on

1196
00:44:33,974 --> 00:44:37,355
an image in and, you know, lightroom and

1197
00:44:37,494 --> 00:44:37,994
photoshop

1198
00:44:39,655 --> 00:44:40,155
to

1199
00:44:41,348 --> 00:44:43,440
to make it the most powerful statement

1200
00:44:43,816 --> 00:44:44,532
that I can.

1201
00:44:46,362 --> 00:44:47,795
I wanna go back to the sack... Your

1202
00:44:47,875 --> 00:44:50,763
Sacramento show. So that's sure. That's not local,

1203
00:44:52,034 --> 00:44:52,672
are you...

1204
00:44:54,031 --> 00:44:56,449
How many photos are you showing there? Like

1205
00:44:56,509 --> 00:44:57,867
25. 25.

1206
00:44:58,587 --> 00:45:00,505
Are are you framing them?

1207
00:45:02,032 --> 00:45:02,532
With

1208
00:45:02,987 --> 00:45:04,817
luckily, 1 thing that made the whole thing

1209
00:45:04,817 --> 00:45:05,317
possible

1210
00:45:05,771 --> 00:45:06,908
was they they

1211
00:45:07,442 --> 00:45:09,644
keep a large stock of

1212
00:45:10,003 --> 00:45:11,758
standard plexiglass sizes.

1213
00:45:13,832 --> 00:45:16,224
So they... So I... And they just... They'll

1214
00:45:16,224 --> 00:45:18,059
put the stuff up behind their plexiglass if

1215
00:45:18,059 --> 00:45:20,624
you don't wanna frame it. There is no

1216
00:45:20,624 --> 00:45:22,375
way I could frame and... I mean,

1217
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:25,796
20 by 24 plexiglass sheets are close to

1218
00:45:25,796 --> 00:45:28,119
40 dollars a sheet. Just for the glass.

1219
00:45:28,436 --> 00:45:30,345
The piece of yeah in the frame, and

1220
00:45:30,345 --> 00:45:31,538
then, God what does it cost to, like,

1221
00:45:31,697 --> 00:45:33,764
pack that up and ship it. You have

1222
00:45:33,764 --> 00:45:35,594
to have these great big museum credits, you

1223
00:45:35,594 --> 00:45:37,596
know, with that go on a pallet. Something

1224
00:45:37,596 --> 00:45:40,534
like they, you know, put Edward Bat working

1225
00:45:40,534 --> 00:45:41,248
in or something.

1226
00:45:42,837 --> 00:45:43,154
So

1227
00:45:44,822 --> 00:45:45,798
so that was

1228
00:45:46,664 --> 00:45:48,260
that was 1 of the things that when

1229
00:45:48,260 --> 00:45:49,776
they said, yeah, we'd I'd like to show

1230
00:45:49,776 --> 00:45:51,612
you, you, show your work.

1231
00:45:52,969 --> 00:45:53,469
And

1232
00:45:54,977 --> 00:45:57,622
showed me kind of what the options were

1233
00:45:58,155 --> 00:46:00,220
that I said, okay. Yeah. I I will

1234
00:46:00,220 --> 00:46:01,730
agree to do this. I I could see

1235
00:46:01,730 --> 00:46:03,731
a situation where somebody would come back and

1236
00:46:03,731 --> 00:46:05,164
say, yeah, We wanna show you work, and

1237
00:46:05,164 --> 00:46:07,471
here's what you've gotta do. And I decide

1238
00:46:07,471 --> 00:46:09,540
it's not worth it. I probably should just

1239
00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:11,609
spend more time as I... Before I pitch

1240
00:46:11,609 --> 00:46:12,348
them on

1241
00:46:12,658 --> 00:46:14,008
But a lot of that stuff is behind

1242
00:46:14,008 --> 00:46:15,834
the scenes. It's in the contract that they

1243
00:46:15,834 --> 00:46:18,057
send you. They don't... And the contract isn't

1244
00:46:18,057 --> 00:46:18,296
there.

1245
00:46:18,931 --> 00:46:21,313
It just says, you know, send submissions too.

1246
00:46:22,521 --> 00:46:24,509
But it, you know, I you've got cycle...

1247
00:46:24,748 --> 00:46:26,418
But it sometimes it's good for them to

1248
00:46:26,418 --> 00:46:27,475
just see your work

1249
00:46:28,009 --> 00:46:29,960
because even if they don't wanna

1250
00:46:30,340 --> 00:46:32,920
show it or you don't agree to their

1251
00:46:33,059 --> 00:46:35,300
to their to meet their needs, which, you

1252
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:36,440
know, or sometimes

1253
00:46:37,074 --> 00:46:37,391
you know,

1254
00:46:38,184 --> 00:46:38,343
substantial.

1255
00:46:39,929 --> 00:46:42,150
Maybe they'll tell somebody else about your work.

1256
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:43,737
So it never hurts to put your work

1257
00:46:43,737 --> 00:46:44,633
in front of,

1258
00:46:45,818 --> 00:46:48,530
and in front of the... What I generically

1259
00:46:48,530 --> 00:46:50,547
call a gatekeeper, which could be a,

1260
00:46:50,924 --> 00:46:51,244
you know,

1261
00:46:53,253 --> 00:46:56,704
online publisher like you are or a gallery

1262
00:46:56,842 --> 00:46:59,815
or a Museum or the photo editor,

1263
00:47:00,671 --> 00:47:02,106
who not knows? Yeah. Could be anybody.

1264
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:04,119
Yeah.

1265
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:06,619
So are you actually printing

1266
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:09,660
your printing photos and sending them to Sacramento?

1267
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,820
Yeah. I actually

1268
00:47:13,569 --> 00:47:17,079
printed the... Printed by printed in January in

1269
00:47:17,238 --> 00:47:18,434
February sort of.

1270
00:47:20,269 --> 00:47:21,726
A lot of the images

1271
00:47:22,918 --> 00:47:24,617
I had to do some more work on

1272
00:47:25,076 --> 00:47:27,174
because I found that when I went from

1273
00:47:30,522 --> 00:47:33,464
my portfolio prints on 11 by 17, you

1274
00:47:33,464 --> 00:47:34,816
know, with a 1 inch margin,

1275
00:47:35,850 --> 00:47:36,588
up to

1276
00:47:37,043 --> 00:47:39,766
the biggest these these you know, 17 by

1277
00:47:39,766 --> 00:47:40,565
22 prints,

1278
00:47:41,682 --> 00:47:44,875
some... I started seeing some little artifacts, sometimes

1279
00:47:44,875 --> 00:47:47,030
on edges and things like that,

1280
00:47:47,842 --> 00:47:48,342
and

1281
00:47:48,954 --> 00:47:50,963
that I wasn't seeing. So I really

1282
00:47:51,495 --> 00:47:53,504
went over them very carefully

1283
00:47:54,115 --> 00:47:55,942
to make them even better than they had

1284
00:47:55,942 --> 00:47:56,260
to be,

1285
00:47:57,150 --> 00:47:59,389
on 17 by 22 papers. So I wouldn't

1286
00:47:59,389 --> 00:48:00,510
have to go back yet had a third

1287
00:48:00,510 --> 00:48:01,570
time If I ever,

1288
00:48:02,030 --> 00:48:03,309
you know, wanted to print 1,

1289
00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:04,349
you know,

1290
00:48:05,483 --> 00:48:07,479
3 by 4 feet or something like that.

1291
00:48:08,038 --> 00:48:09,474
So that that took a lot of work.

1292
00:48:10,592 --> 00:48:11,949
And I just saw things that I could

1293
00:48:11,949 --> 00:48:13,546
do better. That's the thing, you know, that's

1294
00:48:13,546 --> 00:48:15,000
it's it's 1 of the 1 of the

1295
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,699
gifts of digital photography

1296
00:48:17,319 --> 00:48:18,219
is that

1297
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:21,000
it can be better. I I was working

1298
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:21,319
with a...

1299
00:48:22,293 --> 00:48:23,112
Some software

1300
00:48:24,925 --> 00:48:25,085
that...

1301
00:48:27,797 --> 00:48:29,313
I guess, I can say there's, like, the

1302
00:48:29,313 --> 00:48:32,277
next software package. Mh. Terribly the nick Yeah.

1303
00:48:32,516 --> 00:48:34,183
Just like with the va and stuff like

1304
00:48:34,183 --> 00:48:36,327
that. And III

1305
00:48:36,327 --> 00:48:38,549
started working with that early on because it

1306
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:41,010
was just so quick and easy to make.

1307
00:48:41,822 --> 00:48:42,779
Tremendous changes,

1308
00:48:43,896 --> 00:48:44,215
you know,

1309
00:48:45,251 --> 00:48:47,086
in Photoshop, great edits,

1310
00:48:47,804 --> 00:48:49,159
and they had a version 3, and then

1311
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,356
I Upgraded diversion know version 2, I did

1312
00:48:52,356 --> 00:48:54,420
it seems to work on, then I upgraded

1313
00:48:54,420 --> 00:48:55,293
to version 3,

1314
00:48:55,848 --> 00:48:57,595
and it went back to edit some version

1315
00:48:57,595 --> 00:48:58,944
two's, and it couldn't do it.

1316
00:49:00,554 --> 00:49:02,714
And I I wrote them and said, Oh,

1317
00:49:02,954 --> 00:49:04,795
what's the deal here? I can't open and

1318
00:49:04,954 --> 00:49:06,474
Said, no. You can just have to start

1319
00:49:06,474 --> 00:49:08,808
with your version 2 image, and then re

1320
00:49:08,808 --> 00:49:10,322
edit that on top of it.

1321
00:49:11,437 --> 00:49:14,225
I said, and and their assumption is that

1322
00:49:14,225 --> 00:49:15,739
once you had understood a picture, you were

1323
00:49:15,739 --> 00:49:17,094
finished, and I wrote the guy back and

1324
00:49:17,173 --> 00:49:17,492
I said,

1325
00:49:18,144 --> 00:49:19,897
I said, I am an artist. I am

1326
00:49:19,897 --> 00:49:22,048
never stopped with it. I never finished with

1327
00:49:22,048 --> 00:49:22,526
an image.

1328
00:49:23,243 --> 00:49:24,677
I was probably an overstate.

1329
00:49:25,568 --> 00:49:26,704
But in this digital

1330
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:27,715
digital world,

1331
00:49:28,590 --> 00:49:29,306
it's a gift.

1332
00:49:29,942 --> 00:49:31,056
Because as you grow,

1333
00:49:31,532 --> 00:49:33,838
your approach to an image can grow. I'm

1334
00:49:33,838 --> 00:49:34,816
sure there are painters

1335
00:49:35,843 --> 00:49:37,759
that don't wanna look at work that they

1336
00:49:37,759 --> 00:49:39,434
did 10 years earlier because they owe so

1337
00:49:39,434 --> 00:49:39,994
much more.

1338
00:49:40,632 --> 00:49:41,110
You.

1339
00:49:42,467 --> 00:49:43,719
And you just have to turn it loose

1340
00:49:43,918 --> 00:49:45,903
I I realize at some point. You have

1341
00:49:45,903 --> 00:49:48,206
to Abandon it. Yep. But anyway,

1342
00:49:49,873 --> 00:49:50,985
I'm I'm

1343
00:49:52,511 --> 00:49:54,583
Sorry. I forgot where my thread of thought.

1344
00:49:55,380 --> 00:49:58,248
Great. Yeah. We're talking about image sizes and...

1345
00:49:58,487 --> 00:50:00,080
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I yeah. I printed

1346
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:00,319
them all.

1347
00:50:01,689 --> 00:50:04,164
I in the and mad them,

1348
00:50:05,202 --> 00:50:08,155
built special shipping cases for them, a little

1349
00:50:08,155 --> 00:50:08,395
tip,

1350
00:50:09,911 --> 00:50:10,811
you know, to

1351
00:50:11,681 --> 00:50:12,818
built shipping

1352
00:50:13,193 --> 00:50:15,739
large batches of prince light... Very delicate prints,

1353
00:50:16,217 --> 00:50:17,570
especially, you know, they're not going in frame.

1354
00:50:17,729 --> 00:50:20,037
And if you ding the corner, it's ruined.

1355
00:50:20,848 --> 00:50:22,199
Is if you put a little ding and

1356
00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:23,549
a frame that you're gonna put in a

1357
00:50:23,549 --> 00:50:24,980
frame, you can get by with it because

1358
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:26,172
it's gonna be hidden by the frame.

1359
00:50:28,173 --> 00:50:30,242
And it was... It's kind of risky putting

1360
00:50:30,242 --> 00:50:32,787
things in cardboard boxes, and these things they

1361
00:50:32,787 --> 00:50:33,583
wanted it. They wanted,

1362
00:50:35,746 --> 00:50:38,294
like, 4 ply mats. So you get a

1363
00:50:38,294 --> 00:50:40,285
4 ply back mat and a 4 pie

1364
00:50:40,285 --> 00:50:41,081
front mat,

1365
00:50:41,798 --> 00:50:44,601
and, you know, it's about a a pound

1366
00:50:44,601 --> 00:50:45,659
per per print

1367
00:50:46,433 --> 00:50:47,730
added print. So

1368
00:50:49,380 --> 00:50:50,257
we know more than that.

1369
00:50:51,786 --> 00:50:54,655
Little more. Anyway, I I shipped them 2

1370
00:50:54,655 --> 00:50:56,808
boxes weighing about 25 pounds a piece.

1371
00:50:59,294 --> 00:51:01,233
And the thing I learned was that

1372
00:51:01,692 --> 00:51:02,431
if you

1373
00:51:03,050 --> 00:51:05,367
if you ship by Fedex or Ups,

1374
00:51:06,087 --> 00:51:07,765
if it's not in a cardboard box,

1375
00:51:08,338 --> 00:51:10,430
you pay about a 20 dollar

1376
00:51:11,283 --> 00:51:13,591
surcharge. So. So you can't build a box

1377
00:51:13,591 --> 00:51:15,182
out of, like, wood and,

1378
00:51:16,073 --> 00:51:18,221
Mason, you, with a big hard sided box

1379
00:51:18,221 --> 00:51:19,277
and ship it

1380
00:51:19,891 --> 00:51:21,425
without paying a 20 dollar

1381
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,789
surcharge. So what I did was I built

1382
00:51:23,789 --> 00:51:24,266
boxes,

1383
00:51:25,077 --> 00:51:28,182
out of Mason wood, really sturdy boxes, you

1384
00:51:28,182 --> 00:51:31,207
know, the mason Screws in to them, you

1385
00:51:31,207 --> 00:51:34,171
know, they're all padded and perfectly made for.

1386
00:51:34,570 --> 00:51:36,805
You know, 20 by 24 prints. And then

1387
00:51:36,885 --> 00:51:38,242
I put those in a cardboard box.

1388
00:51:41,846 --> 00:51:44,630
Save 20 dollars. I think rigged the cardboard

1389
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:46,699
box. It was just big enough. Yeah. It

1390
00:51:46,699 --> 00:51:48,926
didn't mean much padding because they're bulletproof. You

1391
00:51:48,926 --> 00:51:49,824
know. Was long

1392
00:51:50,293 --> 00:51:52,202
as long as the whole box wasn't ripped

1393
00:51:52,202 --> 00:51:52,941
in half

1394
00:51:53,316 --> 00:51:53,714
interesting.

1395
00:51:54,191 --> 00:51:55,702
And shipped those off. So those went off

1396
00:51:55,702 --> 00:51:56,657
a few weeks ago,

1397
00:51:57,309 --> 00:51:59,622
and I got confirmation for them that the

1398
00:51:59,622 --> 00:52:01,616
boxes were intact. I, well, that's all you

1399
00:52:01,616 --> 00:52:03,530
need to do. Because, like I said, they're

1400
00:52:03,530 --> 00:52:05,365
in there are a little armored cars inside

1401
00:52:05,365 --> 00:52:06,481
those cardboard boxes.

1402
00:52:08,331 --> 00:52:09,927
So... But those are just things that I've

1403
00:52:09,927 --> 00:52:12,082
just kinda learned and picked up. Yeah. That's

1404
00:52:12,082 --> 00:52:14,317
pretty. It's enough. What the deal you might

1405
00:52:14,317 --> 00:52:14,796
fear gonna...

1406
00:52:15,528 --> 00:52:17,041
If you're gonna ship and show your work,

1407
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:18,632
there's a whole back into it.

1408
00:52:19,827 --> 00:52:21,976
Once again, that takes time away from actually

1409
00:52:21,976 --> 00:52:25,338
creating, like, the marketing, the pitching, the promotion,

1410
00:52:25,657 --> 00:52:27,811
the research on places to ship it, you

1411
00:52:27,811 --> 00:52:28,528
know. So it's...

1412
00:52:30,044 --> 00:52:31,958
But it's... You know, I read someplace place

1413
00:52:31,958 --> 00:52:32,777
1 of the

1414
00:52:33,645 --> 00:52:36,181
challenge book authors have is they work for

1415
00:52:36,181 --> 00:52:36,681
years

1416
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:38,003
writing a book,

1417
00:52:39,271 --> 00:52:40,008
and then

1418
00:52:40,793 --> 00:52:42,865
they're sick of it. And at that very

1419
00:52:42,865 --> 00:52:44,958
time, they've gotta go on the road

1420
00:52:45,335 --> 00:52:47,964
promoting it and talking about it, while they're

1421
00:52:47,964 --> 00:52:49,818
trying to get on with their next project

1422
00:52:49,876 --> 00:52:51,509
and and and

1423
00:52:51,888 --> 00:52:53,565
or do more work, you know. But at

1424
00:52:53,565 --> 00:52:54,924
least a book is a stake in the

1425
00:52:54,924 --> 00:52:56,362
ground. When the book is done,

1426
00:52:57,081 --> 00:52:57,880
it's kinda done,

1427
00:52:58,533 --> 00:53:00,122
when you're preparing exhibits,

1428
00:53:00,838 --> 00:53:01,893
it's a collaborative

1429
00:53:02,585 --> 00:53:04,254
relationship with your curator,

1430
00:53:05,764 --> 00:53:06,558
where, you know,

1431
00:53:07,368 --> 00:53:09,671
you you work together to decide what to

1432
00:53:09,671 --> 00:53:11,815
hang? What's what's missing? Do you wanna do

1433
00:53:11,815 --> 00:53:12,315
something

1434
00:53:12,927 --> 00:53:15,364
special just for this venue, you know, that

1435
00:53:15,484 --> 00:53:16,921
that might be really neat that you couldn't

1436
00:53:16,921 --> 00:53:17,958
do it in other venue.

1437
00:53:18,996 --> 00:53:20,991
There's a lot of opportunity. And it's a

1438
00:53:20,991 --> 00:53:22,289
it's an extension

1439
00:53:22,666 --> 00:53:23,066
of the...

1440
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:27,079
Creative process to have a collaborative process with

1441
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:27,320
your,

1442
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,079
curator or editor or or whatever it is.

1443
00:53:33,652 --> 00:53:35,989
So how does it feel to be selected

1444
00:53:36,049 --> 00:53:36,868
for a

1445
00:53:37,247 --> 00:53:38,126
1 man show?

1446
00:53:39,980 --> 00:53:42,059
It's it's nate. III...

1447
00:53:42,299 --> 00:53:45,819
It's been a long time. III

1448
00:53:45,819 --> 00:53:46,779
had a previous life.

1449
00:53:47,353 --> 00:53:49,025
When I was doing my 4 by 5

1450
00:53:49,025 --> 00:53:49,263
work,

1451
00:53:51,014 --> 00:53:51,492
and,

1452
00:53:52,925 --> 00:53:54,039
was doing,

1453
00:53:55,248 --> 00:53:57,869
also some 35 millimeter work and I... I

1454
00:53:57,869 --> 00:53:58,845
did get 1

1455
00:53:59,298 --> 00:54:01,522
1 person show some of my 4 by

1456
00:54:01,522 --> 00:54:03,928
5 work, but it was just derivative landscape

1457
00:54:04,063 --> 00:54:06,629
work. You know, black and white landscape work

1458
00:54:06,629 --> 00:54:09,342
like, do doing that back in the eighties,

1459
00:54:09,581 --> 00:54:11,496
early eighties, and late seventies, you know,

1460
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:14,065
And, but it was nice to do that,

1461
00:54:14,225 --> 00:54:15,422
you know, and then I had a

1462
00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:17,418
another experience,

1463
00:54:19,574 --> 00:54:20,314
I photographed

1464
00:54:22,625 --> 00:54:24,065
pictures of my son,

1465
00:54:25,505 --> 00:54:26,885
when he was between

1466
00:54:27,744 --> 00:54:29,264
9 months and a year and a half

1467
00:54:29,264 --> 00:54:31,515
old, Yeah. Saw this on your website. Oh

1468
00:54:31,515 --> 00:54:33,670
you saw. Okay. Yeah. And I had had

1469
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:36,143
some reception with those and, actually...

1470
00:54:37,913 --> 00:54:39,368
Got a 1 man show

1471
00:54:39,823 --> 00:54:42,768
on that at the Salt Lake arts center,

1472
00:54:43,723 --> 00:54:44,757
and in Utah,

1473
00:54:46,764 --> 00:54:48,119
I was traveling with the...

1474
00:54:48,916 --> 00:54:50,829
My employer at the time at Ut Paso,

1475
00:54:50,989 --> 00:54:53,061
the Ut athletic department.

1476
00:54:53,634 --> 00:54:55,227
To shu so and I was gonna shoot

1477
00:54:55,227 --> 00:54:57,059
pictures at a football game there. They were

1478
00:54:57,059 --> 00:54:59,926
playing the University of Utah. We had a

1479
00:54:59,926 --> 00:55:00,426
hotel

1480
00:55:00,882 --> 00:55:01,679
near downtown,

1481
00:55:02,888 --> 00:55:03,523
Salt lake City.

1482
00:55:04,556 --> 00:55:06,304
And I thought, I'll go shut... Knock on

1483
00:55:06,304 --> 00:55:07,893
the door. I see there's an art center

1484
00:55:07,893 --> 00:55:08,131
there.

1485
00:55:10,054 --> 00:55:11,889
I went in knocked on the door and

1486
00:55:11,889 --> 00:55:13,805
went in to her receptionist said, I've got

1487
00:55:13,805 --> 00:55:15,960
some photographs here. I'd like to show if

1488
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,476
there's anybody like to look at them. She's

1489
00:55:17,476 --> 00:55:19,481
says, oh, yeah. Let me see if if

1490
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:21,703
Robert here and what time... Well, it turned

1491
00:55:21,703 --> 00:55:21,942
out,

1492
00:55:23,212 --> 00:55:25,458
he had come to this guy, Robert Dough

1493
00:55:25,672 --> 00:55:26,387
had just come...

1494
00:55:27,593 --> 00:55:30,059
He was... Just come from east George Eastman

1495
00:55:30,059 --> 00:55:30,559
house

1496
00:55:31,808 --> 00:55:34,751
to take over ship of the Bar center

1497
00:55:34,751 --> 00:55:35,547
in Salt lake.

1498
00:55:36,118 --> 00:55:38,026
Went in and to show show him the

1499
00:55:38,026 --> 00:55:39,934
pictures. And he said, yeah. I'd like to

1500
00:55:39,934 --> 00:55:42,161
show these. So about 6 months later, I

1501
00:55:42,161 --> 00:55:43,694
had a 1 man show there

1502
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:45,914
for those. So those are my you know,

1503
00:55:45,994 --> 00:55:47,453
a couple of 1 man shows

1504
00:55:47,911 --> 00:55:49,190
or 1 person shows.

1505
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:51,827
Don't ask you don't get. But I did.

1506
00:55:51,987 --> 00:55:53,265
Yeah. I just as, you know,

1507
00:55:54,078 --> 00:55:56,171
You just gotta show up and just kinda

1508
00:55:56,388 --> 00:55:59,416
make the pitches and realize that you're usually

1509
00:55:59,416 --> 00:56:00,292
gonna get rejected.

1510
00:56:01,104 --> 00:56:02,701
But then I think of all the actors,

1511
00:56:03,579 --> 00:56:05,036
you know, they get

1512
00:56:05,494 --> 00:56:06,132
professional actors,

1513
00:56:06,771 --> 00:56:07,511
they get

1514
00:56:08,208 --> 00:56:10,959
rejected all the time. You just done salespeople.

1515
00:56:11,737 --> 00:56:12,797
The best salespeople.

1516
00:56:13,416 --> 00:56:17,571
Yeah. Based rejection constantly. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes

1517
00:56:18,051 --> 00:56:19,583
It's just kinda part of the... Part of

1518
00:56:19,583 --> 00:56:21,094
the gig if you're gonna put your work

1519
00:56:21,094 --> 00:56:22,924
out there, and Yeah. I wanna share it.

1520
00:56:23,083 --> 00:56:24,674
I, you know, I don't wanna just do

1521
00:56:24,674 --> 00:56:25,412
stuff to

1522
00:56:26,998 --> 00:56:29,710
Don't out just the hit screener. Yeah. They're

1523
00:56:29,710 --> 00:56:32,262
all piled up and your office somewhere. Yeah.

1524
00:56:32,820 --> 00:56:35,053
Yeah. That's a, like they say, don't don't

1525
00:56:35,053 --> 00:56:36,010
wait for the phone to ring.

1526
00:56:36,824 --> 00:56:37,065
No.

1527
00:56:37,704 --> 00:56:37,864
No.

1528
00:56:39,625 --> 00:56:40,824
Wow. Wow.

1529
00:56:41,944 --> 00:56:42,264
Well,

1530
00:56:43,224 --> 00:56:44,525
thanks, Russell. I

1531
00:56:45,319 --> 00:56:47,073
This is a very, very informative.

1532
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:49,624
I think a lot of people find it

1533
00:56:49,624 --> 00:56:50,262
very helpful.

1534
00:56:50,980 --> 00:56:53,132
Good. I hope yeah. I hope I haven't

1535
00:56:53,132 --> 00:56:54,975
bla on too much. Shot. No. No. No.

1536
00:56:55,213 --> 00:56:56,798
Not at all. I... I said, I can

1537
00:56:56,798 --> 00:56:59,097
talk about this all day. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

1538
00:56:59,256 --> 00:57:01,262
that's a think I I'm so

1539
00:57:01,730 --> 00:57:03,650
I am I'm a little bit apprehensive before

1540
00:57:03,730 --> 00:57:04,390
I talk

1541
00:57:04,690 --> 00:57:06,610
about it. But once I get started.

1542
00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:09,503
Yeah. It's... I'm quite passionate about it. You

1543
00:57:09,503 --> 00:57:10,932
know? It's just... That's what it makes it

1544
00:57:10,932 --> 00:57:13,474
easy. It's just like g and start the

1545
00:57:13,474 --> 00:57:15,937
engine, you know? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

1546
00:57:16,335 --> 00:57:16,811
Exactly.

1547
00:57:17,606 --> 00:57:18,737
Yeah, Alright. Well,

1548
00:57:19,615 --> 00:57:22,010
before we go, tell people where they can

1549
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:24,804
go see your work in the Oh, digital

1550
00:57:24,804 --> 00:57:26,081
world. Yeah. Yeah.

1551
00:57:27,211 --> 00:57:29,518
Well, my website is

1552
00:57:31,427 --> 00:57:33,177
russell c banks dot com.

1553
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:36,545
2 s's and 2 l's. I guess you'll

1554
00:57:36,545 --> 00:57:37,744
can put a link in the Oh, yeah.

1555
00:57:38,063 --> 00:57:39,661
Absolutely. There'll be a live link there.

1556
00:57:41,432 --> 00:57:43,976
And I I started and and by... Well,

1557
00:57:44,056 --> 00:57:44,612
my my

1558
00:57:45,248 --> 00:57:45,884
Instagram is,

1559
00:57:46,678 --> 00:57:48,030
at Russell c banks.

1560
00:57:49,717 --> 00:57:51,313
I I don't do a lot there because

1561
00:57:51,473 --> 00:57:53,308
I just kinda occasionally put up a finished

1562
00:57:53,308 --> 00:57:54,606
image there and

1563
00:57:56,834 --> 00:57:58,590
I give... I gave up on Facebook a

1564
00:57:58,590 --> 00:57:59,388
long time ago,

1565
00:58:00,505 --> 00:58:02,420
and, like, a lot of folks I guess

1566
00:58:02,420 --> 00:58:03,777
are doing. And then,

1567
00:58:05,309 --> 00:58:05,710
I did,

1568
00:58:12,269 --> 00:58:12,829
I guess the...

1569
00:58:13,884 --> 00:58:15,556
Oh, dang, Bob. I forgot what I was

1570
00:58:15,556 --> 00:58:17,625
gonna say. But anyway, those are my... Those

1571
00:58:17,625 --> 00:58:19,001
are the main ways to

1572
00:58:19,456 --> 00:58:21,128
to get a hold and and take a

1573
00:58:21,128 --> 00:58:23,538
look. I've got... Variety of things there on

1574
00:58:23,538 --> 00:58:25,216
the website, more stuff.

1575
00:58:26,654 --> 00:58:28,652
But that's... Oh, I was gonna say. I

1576
00:58:28,652 --> 00:58:31,070
started using the the Russell banks

1577
00:58:32,101 --> 00:58:32,601
because

1578
00:58:33,616 --> 00:58:35,391
there was a famous rider

1579
00:58:35,768 --> 00:58:36,725
named Russell Banks.

1580
00:58:37,682 --> 00:58:39,596
And so when you Google him,

1581
00:58:40,168 --> 00:58:41,126
that's all you get.

1582
00:58:42,322 --> 00:58:42,822
And

1583
00:58:43,359 --> 00:58:44,157
and also there...

1584
00:58:45,432 --> 00:58:47,267
So I I dropped the c in which

1585
00:58:47,267 --> 00:58:49,341
is my middle and middle initial,

1586
00:58:49,994 --> 00:58:52,403
And that was available. It was available on,

1587
00:58:52,938 --> 00:58:54,768
you know, on all of the social media

1588
00:58:54,768 --> 00:58:56,836
on any place Like kinda look. So...

1589
00:58:57,646 --> 00:58:59,476
That's that's why how it ended up Russell

1590
00:58:59,476 --> 00:59:01,703
c banks dot com. And I kinda started

1591
00:59:01,703 --> 00:59:03,396
kinda using that in my professional

1592
00:59:03,771 --> 00:59:05,380
communications. So I'm I do that on my

1593
00:59:05,380 --> 00:59:07,533
business card, you know, to kinda match it

1594
00:59:07,533 --> 00:59:09,367
up for the whole whole ideas to have

1595
00:59:09,367 --> 00:59:09,526
your...

1596
00:59:10,403 --> 00:59:11,461
Have a consistent

1597
00:59:12,237 --> 00:59:12,635
identity.

1598
00:59:13,448 --> 00:59:15,282
Listen to the pro back to the back

1599
00:59:15,282 --> 00:59:17,036
to the marketing field. Yeah. Yeah.

1600
00:59:18,391 --> 00:59:19,986
And for those of you who are street

1601
00:59:19,986 --> 00:59:21,581
photography magazine subscribers,

1602
00:59:22,154 --> 00:59:24,304
You can see Russell article that he wrote,

1603
00:59:24,543 --> 00:59:25,043
titled

1604
00:59:25,499 --> 00:59:26,216
floating world,

1605
00:59:26,773 --> 00:59:29,243
which was published in the May issue of

1606
00:59:29,322 --> 00:59:30,699
Street photography magazine.

1607
00:59:31,730 --> 00:59:33,409
May 20 second to be exact,

1608
00:59:34,210 --> 00:59:34,710
And

1609
00:59:35,089 --> 00:59:36,069
it contains

1610
00:59:36,369 --> 00:59:37,969
much of his work that he shot on

1611
00:59:37,969 --> 00:59:39,989
cruise ships in a very interesting article

1612
00:59:40,542 --> 00:59:41,494
about how he works.

1613
00:59:42,525 --> 00:59:45,088
And 1 more thing, Russell is also

1614
00:59:45,461 --> 00:59:45,961
the

1615
00:59:46,334 --> 00:59:47,231
featured photographer

1616
00:59:47,619 --> 00:59:50,253
for the month of July 20 24,

1617
00:59:51,290 --> 00:59:53,466
and, his feature article

1618
00:59:54,323 --> 00:59:57,932
that Ashley wrote very good story about an

1619
00:59:57,932 --> 01:00:00,909
interesting guy, and that will be published

1620
01:00:01,288 --> 01:00:02,167
on Sunday,

1621
01:00:02,646 --> 01:00:05,376
July the seventh. That's just 2 days from

1622
01:00:05,376 --> 01:00:07,689
today if you're listening to this, the day

1623
01:00:07,689 --> 01:00:08,167
it drops.

1624
01:00:09,523 --> 01:00:11,677
So that is all. And once again, thanks,

1625
01:00:11,916 --> 01:00:12,235
Russell.

1626
01:00:12,953 --> 01:00:15,513
Appreciate you reaching out. And just love to

1627
01:00:15,513 --> 01:00:16,306
hear your story.

1628
01:00:17,416 --> 01:00:18,606
Well, it's a pleasure, Bob.