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This is Carly Beam with the Becker Spine

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and Orthopedic podcast, and I'm thrilled to be

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joined today by doctor Chester Donnelly

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of Texas Spine Consultant.

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Doctor Donnelly, thank you for joining us. Before

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we dive into our main discussion, could you

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please introduce yourself and tell us a bit

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about your background?

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Yes. This is my fortunate to be a

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return customer to the Becker's podcast.

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I'm a spine surgeon here in my hometown

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of Dallas, Texas.

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I'm in a six person spine surgery group

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called Texas Spine Consultants.

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My background is I'm from here, Dallas, Texas,

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my hometown.

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Did training kind of all over America, just

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like most spine surgeons, and now I'm back

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serving my local community. I do everything from

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disc replacements to decompressions, diffusions,

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and I have the great support of my

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partners in my group, and we take care

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of a lot of DFW's

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biggest spine needs.

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That's excellent. And I know you've grown your

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social media presence quite a bit in recent

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years. As of this recording on

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January 24, you have more than 23,000

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Instagram followers,

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more than a 18,000

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followers on TikTok.

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I was wondering if you could share more

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about why you started building your social media

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presence.

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Well, a lot of it is

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in terms of what is social media. You

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know, that's it's any platform really where any

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person at any time,

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anywhere in the world, as many times as

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they want, can go on and share

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content. Content can be text. It can be

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a picture, it can be a video.

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And that's

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good, but that's also really bad. Right? So

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in terms of

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misinformation

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or bad information or good experiences or bad

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experiences, you know, there's so much information out

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there. So what social media has done,

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it's all these other platforms that for free,

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anyone at any point can go up and

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put out information.

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The reason I started the social media stuff

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is, you know, traditionally, if you had if

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you saw your MRI report and you're a

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patient and it said spinal stenosis, well, what

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do you do? You go into Google, you

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search spinal

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stenosis, and likely you get

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a sponsored page from

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one of the big health care systems without

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saying any of them, not to be in

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trouble with any of them, but for the

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one of the big health care systems and

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very generically and very simply, they kind of

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just in text tell you what that condition

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is. And then if you wanna go find

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blogs or something to read about that, that

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was really your only source.

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So one avenue I saw is, well, look,

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we have all this

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experience of a spine as a spine surgeon,

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why not use my experience and our group's

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experience to just

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create

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educational

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content to kind of tell

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patients or tell people who are having these

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issues all over the state, all over the

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country, all over the world kind of what

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this diagnosis is. And I do that through

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video content, sometimes picture content, but usually video

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content with graphics and just showing them on

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spine models

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what foraminal stenosis is, what a laminectomy is,

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what is a cervical disc replacement, what's a

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lumbar disc replacement.

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So really, I was filling a void that

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was much more prominent back in 2016,

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'20 '18.

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There's more creators out there now fortunately kind

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of supporting me on this, and,

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my initial thought was really just filling this

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void of a lack of credible,

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trustworthy, and ethical content.

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Got it. And I remember you said in

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an interview in 2022

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with my colleague, Alan, you mentioned,

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doctor Matthew Harvin, orthopedic surgeon with Yes.

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A big inspiration for getting into this yourself.

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Are there any pieces of advice or practices

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of his that you've implemented into your own

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work?

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Definitely. You know, he was the one when

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I initially started, I was just doing

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just using and so the same content across

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all platforms, but I was really just kinda

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focusing on Instagram and Facebook.

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He and I still give him credit to

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this day. He was telling me, he's like,

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hey. You should get on this TikTok platform.

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And I was like, no. That's only for

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kids in middle school dancing. And he's like,

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you're a fool. That's absolutely not true.

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And I still give him all the credit

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in the world. And he has built up

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a huge platform of millions of followers across

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his stuff. But you have to shout out

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to him. He's a hip and knee specialist

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in the

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DC, Virginia area.

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My advice he kind of gave you is

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just start doing it. If you're already doing

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content somewhere else, you might as well do

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it on all the platforms. Well, that's pretty

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easy advice. But the first advice is you

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just got to start figuring out what you

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want to do with it. Do you want

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to have content that's just funny, that's just

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jokes, that makes people laugh? Great. Well, I'm

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not that funny. I don't think I could

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do that. Do you want content that is

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dancing and just sharing your

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experiences in the OR or pre op or

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with your nursing staff or

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your physician assistant team. Great. Well,

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I'm not a good dancer. So what do

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I got left? I have the educational content

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and really just showing patients different conditions. So

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I think there's kind of those three, maybe

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four, if you include a couple other platform

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content. You just have to have a basis

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and kind of stick with your basis and

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just kind of focus on what you think

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you're good at.

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And how are you seeing your social media

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presence

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translate into your day to day work? Do

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you see people coming from TikTok saying they

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want they want your help? Do you see

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patients coming in feeling more

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knowledgeable than maybe, let's say, a decade ago?

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Absolutely.

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You know, it's

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I used to go and tell people how

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great it was and how they should do

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it, but now maybe I don't want everyone

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doing it just in terms of how much

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it helps grow a practice.

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Fortunately, I'm at a point in my practice

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where I'm

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happy to share the love. And I think,

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you know, I got a group of about,

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I don't know, fifteen, twenty spine surgeon friends

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I have either from residency or fellowship or

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different training or courses or online. And, you

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know, there's I might get a text from

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one of them or someone else every couple

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days either

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thanking me or cursing me for sending them

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a patient in their hometown because I have

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these patients from

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California,

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New York, South Florida, Philadelphia, and they ask

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me in the comment box, like, hey. Who's

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a good spine surgeon you would trust in

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my area? And I have all these resources

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to give them. And so I'm able to

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kinda share the love and for better or

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worse, different spine patients go to my

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friends or colleagues or people that I just

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think are really good, trustworthy, and ethical.

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And sometimes those patients

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instead of wanna fly down here to Dallas,

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Texas to be seen by me, which I

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always do appreciate.

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But it's definitely been something, one, to help

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with organic recruitment.

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But then something else I thought has been

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pretty interesting and also, you know, some majority

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of patients I see have no idea that

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I have social media. Right? But maybe when

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they go home and they wanna research their

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condition,

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my goodness, all of a sudden my YouTube

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video pops up about

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spondylolisthesis.

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And they're like, not only am I learning

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about the condition, but that's my doctor, again,

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telling me what he told me in the

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office. And then they can show their family

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and friends

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or their sons and daughters or grandkids.

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So it's been helpful, one, from a organic

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patient recruitment,

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but two, also to kind of reinforce some

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of the concepts I am able to fortunately

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share with some of my local community.

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Yeah. And I can imagine for patients, it

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must be a really cool feeling to realize,

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hey. My surgeon, the TikTok doctor, he's famous.

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Yeah. But, obviously, the social media landscape is

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ever evolving.

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Algorithms

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are

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changing. There are new platforms often

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trying to take hold. And, you know, obviously,

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recently with TikTok, there's been a lot of

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uncertainty with that, at least in The US.

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So I'm wondering, you know, as a social

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media star, how are you strategizing

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around these changes?

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Well,

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I kinda have two different hats I wear.

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One, just as a

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normal consumer

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of it. And in terms of what are

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the changes, of course, it's the TikTok. It's

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the TikTok ban that was

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extended maybe or not extended. TikTok is left

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is kept alive maybe for another ninety days.

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It's probably the easiest way to say it.

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And then one of the hats I wear

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is just from a consumer. I think anyone

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that uses TikTok regularly will tell you that

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it really is the best platform. I like

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it because

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not only does it entertain me, it gives

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me my news.

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It gives me my sports updates.

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It shows me

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golf practicing swings that I'm never gonna practice.

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It shows me different movie clips or clips

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from TV shows that I like that kind

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of entertain me and make me laugh. It's

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just the algorithm is what makes the platform

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very powerful.

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And

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on one side, just as a consumer, that's

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why it's definitely the best and definitely my

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favorite.

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But then the other hat I'm wearing, maybe

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my my scrub hat now,

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I enjoy it because that's where I've been

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able to have the best foothold

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and the best

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patient or

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spine pathology interaction.

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YouTube has been helpful for me.

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Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, those are all good platforms

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also, but just a little bit of a

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different

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market. And also, I don't just you know,

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frankly, I do so well on Instagram and

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or sorry, do so well on TikTok and

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YouTube. I haven't put as much attention in

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those. So in terms of

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the TikTok ban that probably will hold up

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after another couple months, unfortunately,

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I am putting more of my attention to

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some of those other platforms. That's definitely true.

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So really just it sounds like strategizing,

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looking into different channels, and keeping up to

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different avenues of reaches

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of

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the move here.

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And my last question for you today, doctor

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Donnelly,

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what are three health care trends that you're

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following this year?

281
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Well,

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I have you know, in training, we didn't

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00:09:54,524 --> 00:09:55,504
use much navigation

284
00:09:55,965 --> 00:09:59,105
for placing pedicle screws in cages because

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of whatever reason, and I felt very comfortable

286
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not using navigation.

287
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I legitimately just woke up one day, decided

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I didn't like the

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00:10:08,049 --> 00:10:10,769
extra radiation risk coming to myself, coming to

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00:10:10,769 --> 00:10:12,629
my team from not using navigation.

291
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And so now I navigate, for the most

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00:10:15,409 --> 00:10:17,269
part, probably 90%

293
00:10:17,329 --> 00:10:19,350
of this pedicle screws I place.

294
00:10:19,764 --> 00:10:22,105
Okay. That's all great, but there's so much

295
00:10:22,964 --> 00:10:23,464
infrastructure

296
00:10:24,084 --> 00:10:26,485
needed for navigation these days. There's so much

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00:10:26,485 --> 00:10:28,084
cost. You know, most of these hospitals that

298
00:10:28,084 --> 00:10:29,945
have it, they've already purchased it well before

299
00:10:30,164 --> 00:10:31,924
I came along in terms of the million

300
00:10:31,924 --> 00:10:32,424
dollar

301
00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:35,629
CT scanners on wheels, not to use any

302
00:10:35,629 --> 00:10:36,370
brand names,

303
00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:38,209
even the intraoperative,

304
00:10:39,149 --> 00:10:42,289
C arm that make the three d navigation

305
00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:42,850
possible.

306
00:10:43,789 --> 00:10:45,629
But it's all expensive, takes up a lot

307
00:10:45,629 --> 00:10:46,215
of space.

308
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It's a tad cumbersome if you don't have

309
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the a team in terms of the x-ray

310
00:10:50,695 --> 00:10:52,375
techs that day. And so if there's a

311
00:10:52,375 --> 00:10:54,634
way we can continue to make the navigation

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00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:55,355
technology

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smaller and cheaper, just like our cell phones,

314
00:10:58,455 --> 00:11:00,529
just like our TVs that used to be

315
00:11:00,529 --> 00:11:02,929
huge and really expensive, you know, over a

316
00:11:02,929 --> 00:11:05,490
span of ten years and twenty years, TVs

317
00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:06,789
have gotten smaller,

318
00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:09,409
less expensive, and more powerful. I think it'd

319
00:11:09,409 --> 00:11:11,029
be great to see some of our navigation

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00:11:11,169 --> 00:11:11,669
technology,

321
00:11:12,049 --> 00:11:14,695
some of the augmented reality technology

322
00:11:15,315 --> 00:11:17,315
that is a little bulky and a little

323
00:11:17,315 --> 00:11:18,995
cumbersome now. But if that can be something

324
00:11:18,995 --> 00:11:21,154
that's even smaller, it could be placed onto

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00:11:21,154 --> 00:11:23,154
some of the glasses you're wearing. There's just

326
00:11:23,154 --> 00:11:25,894
so many avenues from that standpoint. So navigation

327
00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:27,574
is one way. But

328
00:11:27,899 --> 00:11:29,980
to be fair, navigation right now, kind of

329
00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:32,059
make my number two point, is really just

330
00:11:32,059 --> 00:11:33,980
for fusions. It would be great if we

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00:11:33,980 --> 00:11:35,040
can use navigation

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00:11:35,660 --> 00:11:37,500
to help us with decompressions. You know, we

333
00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,500
talk about robotic technology all the time. And

334
00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:41,660
right now, for the most part, robots only

335
00:11:41,660 --> 00:11:42,559
help with fusion.

336
00:11:43,315 --> 00:11:44,695
So kind of going in the same

337
00:11:45,075 --> 00:11:47,634
breath in terms of navigation and technology, now

338
00:11:47,634 --> 00:11:49,634
adding robots in here, it'd be great if

339
00:11:49,634 --> 00:11:50,855
robots' navigation

340
00:11:51,394 --> 00:11:52,855
could help us with decompression.

341
00:11:53,394 --> 00:11:54,915
It'd be great if there's tools and there's

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00:11:54,915 --> 00:11:56,754
some out there that are being tested and

343
00:11:56,754 --> 00:11:58,830
being used. Like, how do we know when

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00:11:58,830 --> 00:12:01,710
we've decompressed enough of the spine? Is there

345
00:12:01,710 --> 00:12:03,389
a certain probe we can put on the

346
00:12:03,389 --> 00:12:04,910
nerve and it tells us, hey. Now that

347
00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:06,830
nerve is nice and wide open. You don't

348
00:12:06,830 --> 00:12:08,429
need to keep digging around. You don't need

349
00:12:08,429 --> 00:12:10,269
to keep taking out bone. You've done the

350
00:12:10,269 --> 00:12:13,545
job. So from a navigation technology standpoint,

351
00:12:14,404 --> 00:12:16,745
from a non fusion standpoint, I think that's

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00:12:16,805 --> 00:12:19,065
a great role. And then number three

353
00:12:19,445 --> 00:12:22,004
is just looking at physician health. Is there

354
00:12:22,004 --> 00:12:24,425
certain things in terms of our OR structures,

355
00:12:24,565 --> 00:12:26,940
the loops we wear, the microscopes we use

356
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:29,019
that help put less strain on our neck,

357
00:12:29,019 --> 00:12:30,779
less strain on our back. It kind of

358
00:12:30,779 --> 00:12:32,620
goes my first thing again with navigation. The

359
00:12:32,620 --> 00:12:33,919
reason I switched to navigation,

360
00:12:34,460 --> 00:12:35,679
it was less radiation.

361
00:12:36,139 --> 00:12:38,539
So hopefully, better health benefits for me long

362
00:12:38,539 --> 00:12:40,865
term. Are there other things as a surgeon

363
00:12:40,865 --> 00:12:42,784
I can do in the OR, in the

364
00:12:42,784 --> 00:12:45,824
office that help my longevity that helps me

365
00:12:45,824 --> 00:12:46,324
not

366
00:12:46,625 --> 00:12:49,824
retire due to having multiple neck fusions and

367
00:12:49,824 --> 00:12:51,664
neck surgery from having to bend down and

368
00:12:51,664 --> 00:12:53,985
do T lifts or ACDS or disc replacements

369
00:12:53,985 --> 00:12:55,639
all day? So those those are the three

370
00:12:55,639 --> 00:12:58,040
things that I'm interested in. Fortunately, there's a

371
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,440
lot of colleagues and peers I have who

372
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,860
are very actively and very publicly

373
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,040
researching these topics, and they're sharing their findings.

374
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,485
They're they're they're just on the social media

375
00:13:08,485 --> 00:13:11,445
platforms, particularly LinkedIn. They're really sharing the different

376
00:13:11,445 --> 00:13:14,004
avenues that they're going about promoting these different

377
00:13:14,004 --> 00:13:14,504
technologies.

378
00:13:16,004 --> 00:13:17,544
Absolutely. And it seems like

379
00:13:18,004 --> 00:13:20,580
there's still so much potential for all these

380
00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:21,559
spine technologies

381
00:13:21,860 --> 00:13:24,100
to grow even with all the progress we've

382
00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:26,340
made. And then I just wanna ask one

383
00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:28,519
more quick follow-up question. So

384
00:13:28,899 --> 00:13:30,500
you said you just decide you woke up

385
00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:32,100
one day and you decided, you know, I'm

386
00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:34,875
gonna learn how to do navigation. Can you

387
00:13:34,955 --> 00:13:35,695
talk about

388
00:13:36,154 --> 00:13:38,315
the learning curve and how you're you were

389
00:13:38,315 --> 00:13:39,134
able to,

390
00:13:39,514 --> 00:13:40,014
trust?

391
00:13:41,034 --> 00:13:41,534
Most

392
00:13:41,914 --> 00:13:44,335
all these new technologies, whether it's robotics,

393
00:13:44,715 --> 00:13:45,215
endoscopy,

394
00:13:46,955 --> 00:13:48,575
navigation, probably the other one,

395
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,740
are about a learning curve of 30 cases.

396
00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:55,000
There's many great videos and journal clubs on

397
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,799
Seattle Science Foundation where they talk about these

398
00:13:57,799 --> 00:13:59,240
and they share the papers. But all of

399
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,799
them are about 30 cases until where the

400
00:14:01,799 --> 00:14:03,500
learning curve starts to flatten.

401
00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:05,815
So one is you just got to start

402
00:14:05,815 --> 00:14:07,654
doing them. I think something else that helped

403
00:14:07,654 --> 00:14:08,634
me in particular,

404
00:14:09,095 --> 00:14:11,914
say, a novel surgery like the prone lateral

405
00:14:11,975 --> 00:14:14,375
interbody fusion, well, that was a surgery I

406
00:14:14,375 --> 00:14:16,774
didn't get any exposure to in fellowship. But

407
00:14:16,774 --> 00:14:18,394
fortunately, when I came out of training,

408
00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:20,659
one of the experts in Dallas Fort Worth,

409
00:14:20,659 --> 00:14:22,419
a guy named Michael Hennessy, he had been

410
00:14:22,419 --> 00:14:22,919
doing

411
00:14:23,299 --> 00:14:25,879
lateral pronalateral fusion surgeries for years.

412
00:14:26,579 --> 00:14:28,899
He was I was able to scrub in

413
00:14:28,899 --> 00:14:31,379
with several cases with him on his patients

414
00:14:31,379 --> 00:14:33,139
and just kind of see the anatomy and

415
00:14:33,139 --> 00:14:35,024
see the setup for it. And then when

416
00:14:35,024 --> 00:14:36,865
I started booking my own patients for a

417
00:14:36,865 --> 00:14:37,605
prone lateral,

418
00:14:38,144 --> 00:14:40,304
he blocked out time and came and joined

419
00:14:40,304 --> 00:14:42,865
me. So I think having a mentor there

420
00:14:42,865 --> 00:14:43,524
with you

421
00:14:44,544 --> 00:14:45,985
is a way that we can really kind

422
00:14:45,985 --> 00:14:48,464
of help grow it. That's the advantage of

423
00:14:48,464 --> 00:14:50,970
being in a group of other spine surgeons

424
00:14:50,970 --> 00:14:52,970
is you have peers who can help guide

425
00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:55,310
you through new technology or new learning curves.

426
00:14:56,649 --> 00:14:58,889
Absolutely. Hey. You know, maybe sometime you'll make

427
00:14:58,889 --> 00:15:01,610
a TikTok video to encourage fellow spine surgeons

428
00:15:01,610 --> 00:15:03,550
to take the leap into navigation.

429
00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:04,590
Absolutely.

430
00:15:06,465 --> 00:15:08,945
Yeah. Well, doctor Donnelly, thank you so much

431
00:15:08,945 --> 00:15:11,024
for joining the podcast today. It's been a

432
00:15:11,024 --> 00:15:13,024
real pleasure speaking with you, and I look

433
00:15:13,024 --> 00:15:14,884
forward to connecting again in the future.

434
00:15:15,345 --> 00:15:17,105
Absolutely. Thank you so much for the privilege

435
00:15:17,105 --> 00:15:19,360
of sharing a couple of my thoughts with

436
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,460
our peers, both nationally and internationally.

437
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:23,779
Absolutely.