1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,220 This is Alan Condon with the Beckers Podcast, 2 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:05,679 and I'm delighted to be joined today by 3 00:00:05,679 --> 00:00:09,539 doctor George Ozude, an orthopedic surgeon at Movement 4 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:10,900 Orthopedic Institute 5 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:11,939 in Texas. 6 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,240 And, doctor Ozude, a pleasure to have you 7 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,074 on the podcast with us today. And before 8 00:00:16,074 --> 00:00:17,914 we dive into our discussion, could you take 9 00:00:17,914 --> 00:00:19,594 a moment to give us a little bit 10 00:00:19,594 --> 00:00:22,335 more insight into your background and your practice? 11 00:00:23,114 --> 00:00:25,914 Sure. Absolutely. So I'm a orthopedic surgeon with 12 00:00:25,914 --> 00:00:27,855 the Sports Medicine Fellowship Training. 13 00:00:28,379 --> 00:00:29,199 I've been practicing 14 00:00:29,579 --> 00:00:31,519 here in Houston since 2014. 15 00:00:32,619 --> 00:00:34,700 I did my medical school at the University 16 00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:36,079 of Illinois in Chicago, 17 00:00:36,460 --> 00:00:38,640 and I did my residency there as well. 18 00:00:38,780 --> 00:00:40,395 Finished out my last year of training and 19 00:00:40,395 --> 00:00:42,155 fellowship down here in the medical center in 20 00:00:42,155 --> 00:00:42,655 Houston 21 00:00:43,195 --> 00:00:45,274 at the Baylor College of Medicine and the 22 00:00:45,274 --> 00:00:46,495 University of Texas. 23 00:00:47,274 --> 00:00:48,015 I actually 24 00:00:48,315 --> 00:00:50,954 had initially started my practice as an employed 25 00:00:50,954 --> 00:00:51,454 practice 26 00:00:52,155 --> 00:00:54,234 in with UT, the same place I did 27 00:00:54,234 --> 00:00:54,975 my fellowship. 28 00:00:55,710 --> 00:00:57,309 And I did that for about 7 years, 29 00:00:57,309 --> 00:00:58,750 and then I went on to start my 30 00:00:58,750 --> 00:00:59,890 own private practice. 31 00:01:00,350 --> 00:01:02,109 And it's been about 3 years since I 32 00:01:02,109 --> 00:01:05,329 opened, and it's a direct pay orthopedic surgical 33 00:01:05,390 --> 00:01:05,890 practice. 34 00:01:06,269 --> 00:01:09,104 Meaning, we take no direct contracts with insurances. 35 00:01:09,884 --> 00:01:12,064 We directly contract with either patients 36 00:01:12,604 --> 00:01:15,584 and or with their employers for the physician 37 00:01:15,884 --> 00:01:16,384 fee. 38 00:01:16,844 --> 00:01:19,724 And sometimes we also have hybrid patients who 39 00:01:19,724 --> 00:01:21,965 wanna use their insurance, so they use it 40 00:01:21,965 --> 00:01:24,270 for their facility fees or any other ancillaries. 41 00:01:24,810 --> 00:01:26,909 But all physician fees are directly contracted. 42 00:01:28,090 --> 00:01:30,650 Gotcha. Really interesting. So so 3 years since 43 00:01:30,650 --> 00:01:32,270 you opened your own practice, 44 00:01:33,049 --> 00:01:34,969 no doubt, look, going into your 4th year 45 00:01:34,969 --> 00:01:37,224 now, when you look ahead into 46 00:01:37,685 --> 00:01:38,185 2025, 47 00:01:38,644 --> 00:01:39,844 can you give us a little bit of 48 00:01:39,844 --> 00:01:40,745 insight into 49 00:01:41,204 --> 00:01:43,685 the biggest headwinds, challenges that you're planning and 50 00:01:43,685 --> 00:01:44,584 preparing for? 51 00:01:45,204 --> 00:01:47,444 Yeah. Absolutely. And as you can imagine with 52 00:01:47,444 --> 00:01:48,825 my niche model, 53 00:01:49,204 --> 00:01:51,769 there's very particular unique headwinds 54 00:01:52,069 --> 00:01:53,909 that I face. You know, it's not a 55 00:01:53,909 --> 00:01:56,310 very common model. A lot of patients and 56 00:01:56,310 --> 00:01:57,989 employers aren't used to it. It takes a 57 00:01:57,989 --> 00:02:00,569 lot of educating actually on the front end, 58 00:02:00,950 --> 00:02:03,254 for folks who are not aware of this 59 00:02:03,254 --> 00:02:05,494 model. But it is a growing model, especially 60 00:02:05,494 --> 00:02:05,994 with 61 00:02:06,295 --> 00:02:09,495 the challenges that the entire medical landscape is 62 00:02:09,495 --> 00:02:10,715 facing with 63 00:02:11,014 --> 00:02:12,794 higher costs of health care, 64 00:02:13,414 --> 00:02:13,895 more, 65 00:02:14,294 --> 00:02:14,794 complexities 66 00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:17,719 and actually delivering care both in terms of 67 00:02:17,719 --> 00:02:19,739 access and in terms of quality. 68 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,099 And so I believe those headwinds actually 69 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,500 spell some tailwinds for me, 70 00:02:26,199 --> 00:02:29,419 you know, because there will be higher influx 71 00:02:29,959 --> 00:02:31,784 and and demand for this type of model 72 00:02:31,784 --> 00:02:32,764 where we, 73 00:02:33,144 --> 00:02:35,245 you know, just have a more, predictable 74 00:02:35,704 --> 00:02:36,204 accessibility 75 00:02:36,664 --> 00:02:37,884 as well as costs. 76 00:02:38,185 --> 00:02:40,044 We lower cost through this model. 77 00:02:40,424 --> 00:02:42,685 But on the headwind side, 78 00:02:43,465 --> 00:02:45,629 you know, it's so new that it does 79 00:02:45,629 --> 00:02:48,050 require a lot of educating and marketing. 80 00:02:48,590 --> 00:02:50,750 And one big area where I need to 81 00:02:50,750 --> 00:02:51,250 market 82 00:02:51,550 --> 00:02:52,370 is to 83 00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:53,250 large 84 00:02:53,870 --> 00:02:55,250 and midsize employers, 85 00:02:56,030 --> 00:02:56,530 specifically 86 00:02:56,830 --> 00:02:58,530 the HR and benefits 87 00:02:59,534 --> 00:03:00,414 offices of these, 88 00:03:01,454 --> 00:03:02,514 these type of companies. 89 00:03:02,894 --> 00:03:04,814 Sometimes it's even necessary to get in front 90 00:03:04,814 --> 00:03:06,834 of the CFO or the c CEO 91 00:03:07,454 --> 00:03:09,215 in order to explain the model and its 92 00:03:09,215 --> 00:03:09,715 benefits. 93 00:03:10,254 --> 00:03:12,629 Those are the biggest headwinds for me over 94 00:03:12,629 --> 00:03:14,430 the past 3 years, and I continue to 95 00:03:14,430 --> 00:03:17,250 see that being headwinds just because it's not 96 00:03:17,310 --> 00:03:18,610 a common model. 97 00:03:19,469 --> 00:03:22,270 You know, there's ecosystems that are growing around 98 00:03:22,270 --> 00:03:24,270 this model. We still have a ways to 99 00:03:24,270 --> 00:03:24,770 go, 100 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:27,414 but it's definitely headed in the right direction. 101 00:03:27,414 --> 00:03:28,074 And so, 102 00:03:28,455 --> 00:03:31,014 just putting on my marketing hat where I 103 00:03:31,014 --> 00:03:32,614 didn't have to worry about that in my 104 00:03:32,614 --> 00:03:35,175 prior practice. But putting on my marketing hat 105 00:03:35,175 --> 00:03:37,175 and getting the word out is the big 106 00:03:37,175 --> 00:03:38,394 obstacle for me. 107 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:41,150 Right. So really boils down to, like you 108 00:03:41,150 --> 00:03:42,930 said, a lot of patient education 109 00:03:43,310 --> 00:03:45,629 and marketing to some of those large mid 110 00:03:45,629 --> 00:03:47,569 side employers like you had mentioned. 111 00:03:47,949 --> 00:03:48,669 I'm curious, 112 00:03:49,870 --> 00:03:52,534 such a niche model, no doubt unique in 113 00:03:52,534 --> 00:03:54,215 some of its challenges, but also some of 114 00:03:54,215 --> 00:03:56,534 its benefits as well. I'm wondering if you 115 00:03:56,534 --> 00:03:58,935 could take me back to 3 years ago 116 00:03:58,935 --> 00:04:00,694 when you were deciding to start your own 117 00:04:00,694 --> 00:04:02,715 practice. How did you land on this model? 118 00:04:03,175 --> 00:04:04,375 I'd love to hear a little bit more 119 00:04:04,375 --> 00:04:05,675 about your thinking there. 120 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,879 For sure. You know, I I had no 121 00:04:07,879 --> 00:04:10,840 clue about, you know, this model, let alone 122 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,520 this model, but just the business side of 123 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,560 medicine when I first finished training. And so 124 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,240 within the 1st 2 to 3 years, you 125 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,319 start to kind of see, you know, how 126 00:04:19,319 --> 00:04:21,404 the sausage is made in the factory. Right? 127 00:04:21,644 --> 00:04:24,365 So to speak. And that's what started leading 128 00:04:24,365 --> 00:04:25,964 me to see the writing on the wall 129 00:04:25,964 --> 00:04:28,444 and where things were headed. That spurred me 130 00:04:28,444 --> 00:04:30,785 to try to look for alternate routes of 131 00:04:30,845 --> 00:04:34,285 of delivering care, of, you know, keeping my 132 00:04:34,285 --> 00:04:35,919 my own physician autonomy. 133 00:04:36,620 --> 00:04:39,180 You know, and I, really came across this 134 00:04:39,180 --> 00:04:39,680 model 135 00:04:39,980 --> 00:04:42,720 through Keith Smith, doctor Keith Smith at the 136 00:04:43,019 --> 00:04:44,240 Surgery Center of Oklahoma. 137 00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:46,699 He's been doing this with his surgery center 138 00:04:46,699 --> 00:04:49,180 for 25 plus years. It's the first that 139 00:04:49,180 --> 00:04:50,995 I heard of it and, it really made 140 00:04:50,995 --> 00:04:52,435 sense to me. It was clear. It was 141 00:04:52,435 --> 00:04:55,574 simple. That's probably the biggest thing. This model 142 00:04:55,634 --> 00:04:56,134 simplifies, 143 00:04:56,914 --> 00:04:58,454 you know, the the care delivery, 144 00:04:59,235 --> 00:05:00,854 challenges that we see in medicine. 145 00:05:01,235 --> 00:05:02,694 And so that was around, 146 00:05:03,129 --> 00:05:05,310 my 3rd or 4th year of of practice. 147 00:05:05,930 --> 00:05:08,250 And, you know, I I always thought if 148 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:11,210 I really wanted to obtain and maintain my 149 00:05:11,210 --> 00:05:13,770 autonomy, I would probably have to do something 150 00:05:13,770 --> 00:05:14,589 like this. 151 00:05:15,050 --> 00:05:16,430 That gave me the idea. 152 00:05:17,444 --> 00:05:20,324 Investing outside of, medicine gave me kind of 153 00:05:20,324 --> 00:05:20,824 the 154 00:05:21,204 --> 00:05:21,524 the, 155 00:05:22,485 --> 00:05:23,464 soft landing, 156 00:05:23,844 --> 00:05:25,764 so to speak, to, to, kinda go out 157 00:05:25,764 --> 00:05:27,365 there and take a risk and try this 158 00:05:27,365 --> 00:05:27,865 model. 159 00:05:28,485 --> 00:05:29,144 And so 160 00:05:29,589 --> 00:05:33,290 it really is just a a patient physician 161 00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:34,649 relationship driven 162 00:05:35,029 --> 00:05:36,790 type of endeavor. You know? 163 00:05:37,110 --> 00:05:40,069 Just really trying to eliminate as many middlemen 164 00:05:40,069 --> 00:05:42,685 that get between that relationship as possible. 165 00:05:43,305 --> 00:05:44,925 That's where this all comes from. 166 00:05:45,944 --> 00:05:48,425 Gotcha. So really, it's so so important to 167 00:05:48,425 --> 00:05:51,245 you obviously to maintain that autonomy in this 168 00:05:51,785 --> 00:05:53,645 few few years in your early practice 169 00:05:54,025 --> 00:05:56,939 going out here. I'm curious, could you where 170 00:05:56,939 --> 00:05:59,339 do you see the biggest opportunities for growth 171 00:05:59,339 --> 00:06:00,779 for you and your practice when you look 172 00:06:00,779 --> 00:06:02,399 ahead the next 2 or 3 years? 173 00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:06,620 So I think the biggest opportunity is in 174 00:06:06,620 --> 00:06:07,360 in marketing. 175 00:06:07,899 --> 00:06:08,560 I think, 176 00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:10,774 getting the word out is 177 00:06:11,154 --> 00:06:12,935 is, you know, really key, 178 00:06:14,035 --> 00:06:17,314 because there are gonna be pressures to find 179 00:06:17,314 --> 00:06:17,814 alternate 180 00:06:18,354 --> 00:06:21,074 routes for for health care. And so I 181 00:06:21,074 --> 00:06:23,610 think we really need to capitalize on that 182 00:06:23,849 --> 00:06:26,509 energy that's gonna seek out quality, 183 00:06:27,050 --> 00:06:27,949 cost control, 184 00:06:28,649 --> 00:06:29,149 access, 185 00:06:29,610 --> 00:06:30,750 you know, really, 186 00:06:31,209 --> 00:06:32,990 taking advantage of of that 187 00:06:33,370 --> 00:06:33,870 movement, 188 00:06:34,649 --> 00:06:35,469 so to speak. 189 00:06:35,769 --> 00:06:37,064 And so, yeah, that's where I see the 190 00:06:37,064 --> 00:06:38,925 biggest opportunity of growth, leveraging 191 00:06:39,464 --> 00:06:39,964 technology. 192 00:06:40,824 --> 00:06:43,625 You know, I know there's big push with 193 00:06:43,625 --> 00:06:44,125 with, 194 00:06:44,584 --> 00:06:48,365 artificial intelligence, but really just leveraging marketing technology, 195 00:06:48,985 --> 00:06:50,409 you know, using the power 196 00:06:51,430 --> 00:06:54,149 of the Internet and social media to spread 197 00:06:54,149 --> 00:06:56,550 the word. I think that's going to be 198 00:06:56,550 --> 00:06:58,169 the avenues of greatest growth. 199 00:06:59,189 --> 00:07:00,870 Yeah. I'm curious to hear a little bit 200 00:07:00,870 --> 00:07:02,544 more about that. Is it kind of you 201 00:07:02,544 --> 00:07:05,345 know, surgeons the next generations of surgeons coming 202 00:07:05,345 --> 00:07:07,745 out of residencies and fellowships and whatnot who 203 00:07:07,745 --> 00:07:09,824 are looking to go down the same avenue 204 00:07:09,824 --> 00:07:11,504 as you and start their own practice? Is 205 00:07:11,504 --> 00:07:14,064 that something that surgeons now in in this 206 00:07:14,064 --> 00:07:15,685 day and age are taking more advantage 207 00:07:16,144 --> 00:07:19,009 of in terms of exploring social media avenues, 208 00:07:19,069 --> 00:07:21,949 remarketing marketing in new ways that surgeons, maybe 209 00:07:21,949 --> 00:07:24,029 the last generation, might might not have had, 210 00:07:24,270 --> 00:07:25,569 a lot of experience with? 211 00:07:26,430 --> 00:07:28,910 Yeah. You know, on aggregate, I still think 212 00:07:28,910 --> 00:07:30,770 we're at a time where the majority 213 00:07:31,149 --> 00:07:31,649 of 214 00:07:32,029 --> 00:07:35,084 new grads are are going into employed practice, 215 00:07:36,104 --> 00:07:39,064 and younger practicing docs are kind of getting 216 00:07:39,064 --> 00:07:40,685 swept into employed practice. 217 00:07:41,225 --> 00:07:44,044 I think the awareness is is what's changing, 218 00:07:44,264 --> 00:07:46,350 and I think that's already in the 219 00:07:47,129 --> 00:07:49,449 at the level of training from medical school 220 00:07:49,449 --> 00:07:50,110 and residency. 221 00:07:50,569 --> 00:07:52,250 And so may it may be a few 222 00:07:52,250 --> 00:07:54,889 more years before we actually start to see 223 00:07:54,889 --> 00:07:55,389 that 224 00:07:55,770 --> 00:07:59,150 that effect take take hold in the actual 225 00:07:59,449 --> 00:08:00,509 practice models. 226 00:08:01,545 --> 00:08:03,384 But I do think that it's it is 227 00:08:03,384 --> 00:08:06,444 coming. You know, back when I was training 228 00:08:06,665 --> 00:08:07,725 20 years ago, 229 00:08:08,105 --> 00:08:08,764 you know, 230 00:08:09,144 --> 00:08:10,845 I was nowhere near as 231 00:08:11,305 --> 00:08:12,524 as business savvy, 232 00:08:13,545 --> 00:08:14,045 as, 233 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:17,720 just whole or well rounded 234 00:08:18,339 --> 00:08:19,959 as some of the trainees today. 235 00:08:20,259 --> 00:08:22,259 And I was not aware of some of 236 00:08:22,259 --> 00:08:22,759 these 237 00:08:23,379 --> 00:08:27,060 underlying trends that really impact medicine that just 238 00:08:27,060 --> 00:08:28,360 go beyond the clinical 239 00:08:28,740 --> 00:08:29,240 aspect 240 00:08:29,914 --> 00:08:31,055 of our day to day. 241 00:08:31,834 --> 00:08:34,315 And so I do think right now at 242 00:08:34,315 --> 00:08:37,195 this moment, though, these trainees that are coming 243 00:08:37,195 --> 00:08:39,674 out now, they're aware. They know kind of 244 00:08:39,834 --> 00:08:40,475 they know, 245 00:08:40,875 --> 00:08:42,794 very well the problems that are that are 246 00:08:42,794 --> 00:08:45,330 within the medical landscape. And I think they're 247 00:08:45,809 --> 00:08:48,049 they're because of that reason, they're open to 248 00:08:48,049 --> 00:08:50,610 these other models. And it's just a matter 249 00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:52,309 of proof of concept, 250 00:08:53,809 --> 00:08:55,429 you know, just the 251 00:08:55,809 --> 00:08:57,970 the fact that more and more folks are 252 00:08:57,970 --> 00:08:58,605 doing it, 253 00:08:59,164 --> 00:09:01,565 and like I said, social media allows that 254 00:09:01,565 --> 00:09:03,404 to be put on a platform and and 255 00:09:03,404 --> 00:09:03,904 displayed. 256 00:09:04,365 --> 00:09:06,684 I think that will allow them to have 257 00:09:06,684 --> 00:09:08,365 more confidence to go out and do it. 258 00:09:08,365 --> 00:09:10,284 It may take a few years, but I 259 00:09:10,284 --> 00:09:11,264 think it's coming. 260 00:09:12,169 --> 00:09:14,669 Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating to get your perspective there. 261 00:09:14,809 --> 00:09:16,889 I guess, last question that I'd love to 262 00:09:16,889 --> 00:09:19,149 hear from you on. I think, obviously, specializing 263 00:09:19,289 --> 00:09:21,709 in sports medicine. But when you think about, 264 00:09:22,089 --> 00:09:24,029 the orthopedics field more broadly, 265 00:09:24,490 --> 00:09:26,084 how do you see it evolving over the 266 00:09:26,084 --> 00:09:28,485 next coming years, either from a clinical standpoint, 267 00:09:28,485 --> 00:09:30,884 surgical technologies? What are you paying close attention 268 00:09:30,884 --> 00:09:31,384 to? 269 00:09:32,644 --> 00:09:35,384 So I am paying close attention to 270 00:09:35,845 --> 00:09:39,064 the separation that's happening from orthopedics, 271 00:09:40,245 --> 00:09:43,279 with the rest of medicine. And that's very 272 00:09:43,279 --> 00:09:45,940 likely happening in other specialties too. 273 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,639 I think it's represented by the drive and 274 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:49,860 push for more, 275 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,820 cases to be done outside of the hospital. 276 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,725 So in that sense, where the care is 277 00:09:55,725 --> 00:09:58,045 being delivered, I think, is getting separated from 278 00:09:58,045 --> 00:10:00,845 that more legacy model where it was just 279 00:10:00,845 --> 00:10:03,184 one big hospital where everything was done. 280 00:10:03,805 --> 00:10:05,884 I think you're gonna you're gonna see the 281 00:10:05,884 --> 00:10:09,279 increase of more and more specialty specialty ASCs, 282 00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:11,500 you know, and and that can be down 283 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:12,879 to the level of orthopedics, 284 00:10:13,740 --> 00:10:16,699 and and even subspecialties within orthopedics where you 285 00:10:16,699 --> 00:10:18,320 have just the arthroplasty, 286 00:10:19,259 --> 00:10:22,955 you know, designated ASC or outpatient arthroscopy, 287 00:10:24,615 --> 00:10:27,654 dedicated ASC. I think that's coming. I think 288 00:10:27,654 --> 00:10:29,754 that makes sense for overall quality 289 00:10:30,375 --> 00:10:31,434 and patient experience. 290 00:10:32,134 --> 00:10:34,294 With the direct care model, I think that 291 00:10:34,294 --> 00:10:36,700 is the best way to do that model 292 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:39,019 where you limit the amount of middlemen. You 293 00:10:39,019 --> 00:10:40,240 have to run a lean, 294 00:10:40,860 --> 00:10:41,360 outfit. 295 00:10:42,059 --> 00:10:44,300 And so, obviously, I'm biased. Right? Because I've 296 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:46,399 been in this space for 3 years, but 297 00:10:47,019 --> 00:10:48,320 I don't think in anywhere 298 00:10:49,475 --> 00:10:52,054 in medicine is it more represented 299 00:10:52,595 --> 00:10:55,575 to or more needed to have a very 300 00:10:55,634 --> 00:10:58,134 strict business minded, business focused, 301 00:10:59,154 --> 00:11:01,529 run practice. And I think that happens best 302 00:11:01,529 --> 00:11:03,470 with the direct care model, 303 00:11:04,009 --> 00:11:04,990 limiting the middlemen. 304 00:11:06,009 --> 00:11:08,009 Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's fascinating to have 305 00:11:08,009 --> 00:11:09,929 you make your debut appearance on the Becker's 306 00:11:09,929 --> 00:11:11,850 podcast, hear a little bit more about that 307 00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:14,735 unique direct care model at the Movement Orthopedic 308 00:11:14,955 --> 00:11:15,455 Institute. 309 00:11:15,995 --> 00:11:17,595 Doctor Dzune, I'd love to take things back 310 00:11:17,595 --> 00:11:18,875 up for you maybe later on next year 311 00:11:18,875 --> 00:11:20,634 to hear a little bit more about, your 312 00:11:20,634 --> 00:11:22,634 growth, your growth trajectory there. But thank you 313 00:11:22,634 --> 00:11:23,995 so much for taking time to be on 314 00:11:23,995 --> 00:11:26,154 The Becker's Podcast with us today. Sure. Thanks 315 00:11:26,154 --> 00:11:27,033 for having me.