1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,299
Imagine this. You're at the Hyatt Regency Chicago

2
00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,940
surrounded by the top minds in the ambulatory

3
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:07,540
surgery center industry.

4
00:00:07,919 --> 00:00:10,960
Welcome to the Becker's 30th annual meeting, the

5
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,259
business and operations of ASCs from October 30th

6
00:00:14,404 --> 00:00:16,184
to November 2, 2024.

7
00:00:16,964 --> 00:00:19,605
Picture the excitement as you collect business cards

8
00:00:19,605 --> 00:00:22,884
from over a 1000 executive level attendees forging

9
00:00:22,884 --> 00:00:23,945
priceless connections.

10
00:00:24,404 --> 00:00:25,864
Feel the buzz of conversations

11
00:00:26,164 --> 00:00:28,904
as you participate in more than 60 sessions

12
00:00:29,190 --> 00:00:30,089
led by over

13
00:00:30,630 --> 00:00:31,850
225 elite

14
00:00:32,149 --> 00:00:33,049
ASC speakers.

15
00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:37,109
Envision yourself gaining actionable insights on topics like

16
00:00:37,109 --> 00:00:38,490
private equity strategies,

17
00:00:38,950 --> 00:00:43,049
ASC business growth, and innovations in spine, orthopedics,

18
00:00:43,635 --> 00:00:45,734
GI, ophthalmology, and cardiology.

19
00:00:46,354 --> 00:00:50,034
Now imagine yourself listening to inspiring keynotes from

20
00:00:50,034 --> 00:00:53,094
Hall of Fame boxing world champion, Lila Ali,

21
00:00:53,234 --> 00:00:57,030
and professional basketball player, Caitlin Clark. Their stories

22
00:00:57,030 --> 00:00:59,189
will motivate you to take your business to

23
00:00:59,189 --> 00:01:01,590
new heights. You'll leave with a wealth of

24
00:01:01,590 --> 00:01:03,989
knowledge and a network of connections to help

25
00:01:03,989 --> 00:01:06,709
lead your ASC into the next year. Don't

26
00:01:06,709 --> 00:01:09,665
miss out. Get registered today. Visit beckershospitalreview.com

27
00:01:11,165 --> 00:01:13,004
and click on the events page to find

28
00:01:13,004 --> 00:01:15,185
the conference website. That's the beckershospitalreview.com

29
00:01:17,084 --> 00:01:19,104
events page. See you in Chicago.

30
00:01:20,930 --> 00:01:23,430
This is Alan Condon with The Becker's Podcast.

31
00:01:23,489 --> 00:01:25,909
I'm delighted to be joined today by doctor

32
00:01:25,969 --> 00:01:29,409
Scott Hannam, president and medical director at Emerge

33
00:01:29,409 --> 00:01:30,469
Orthos Brunswick

34
00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:31,590
Ambulatory

35
00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:33,109
Surgery Center.

36
00:01:33,575 --> 00:01:35,334
Doctor. Hallum, a pleasure to have you back

37
00:01:35,334 --> 00:01:37,814
on the podcast with us today. Before we

38
00:01:37,814 --> 00:01:39,655
dive into some questions and pick your brains

39
00:01:39,655 --> 00:01:41,094
a little bit, I'd like to turn the

40
00:01:41,094 --> 00:01:42,295
floor over to you to hear a little

41
00:01:42,295 --> 00:01:44,075
bit more about your role and your background.

42
00:01:45,094 --> 00:01:47,049
Sure. Thanks for having me, Alan.

43
00:01:47,590 --> 00:01:50,870
It's my 25th year, in private practice. I'm

44
00:01:50,870 --> 00:01:53,430
a total joint surgeon by training in my

45
00:01:53,430 --> 00:01:56,010
fellowship down to University of Florida in Shands,

46
00:01:56,390 --> 00:01:57,909
and that was kind of the focus of

47
00:01:57,909 --> 00:01:59,450
my practice and still is.

48
00:01:59,965 --> 00:02:02,125
But in the last 5 years, I've taken

49
00:02:02,125 --> 00:02:04,125
on the role of being the president and

50
00:02:04,125 --> 00:02:07,185
medical director of our, orthopedic surgery center

51
00:02:07,805 --> 00:02:09,025
where it's an independent

52
00:02:09,324 --> 00:02:09,824
facility,

53
00:02:10,205 --> 00:02:13,870
a 100% owned by the surgeons of, Emerge

54
00:02:13,870 --> 00:02:15,810
Ortho. Emerge Ortho is

55
00:02:16,110 --> 00:02:17,949
one of the large super groups in the

56
00:02:17,949 --> 00:02:20,830
United States. I think at last account, we

57
00:02:20,830 --> 00:02:21,330
were

58
00:02:21,629 --> 00:02:24,449
the 7th largest group in the country. And,

59
00:02:25,004 --> 00:02:27,324
that came to be about 7 years ago

60
00:02:27,324 --> 00:02:31,745
when 5 large independent orthopedic groups in Wilmington,

61
00:02:32,525 --> 00:02:33,025
Raleigh,

62
00:02:33,564 --> 00:02:34,064
Greensboro,

63
00:02:34,925 --> 00:02:35,425
Hickory,

64
00:02:35,724 --> 00:02:36,625
and Asheville

65
00:02:36,925 --> 00:02:39,740
all decided to merge together to to form

66
00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:40,639
a Merge Orthopedics.

67
00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:42,639
And, so I'm

68
00:02:42,939 --> 00:02:45,260
a partner in that large group, but then

69
00:02:45,260 --> 00:02:47,199
on a on a on a more microcosm

70
00:02:47,419 --> 00:02:47,919
scale,

71
00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:51,659
focused on running the surgery center, here locally

72
00:02:51,659 --> 00:02:53,120
in Wilmington, North Carolina.

73
00:02:54,545 --> 00:02:56,385
Fantastic. So again, pleasure to have you back

74
00:02:56,385 --> 00:02:57,745
on and thanks so much for filling our

75
00:02:57,745 --> 00:02:59,105
audience in with a little bit of that

76
00:02:59,105 --> 00:03:01,504
breakdown in your background and what you're focusing

77
00:03:01,504 --> 00:03:03,504
on now. I might love to kind of

78
00:03:03,504 --> 00:03:05,504
pick your brains a little bit later on

79
00:03:05,504 --> 00:03:08,064
orthopedic trends and the super grooves and whatnot,

80
00:03:08,064 --> 00:03:09,840
but I'd love to kind of kick things

81
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,240
off first with what are what are 2

82
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,319
to 3 trends that you're following in the

83
00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:17,039
health care or the ASC space today and

84
00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:17,539
why?

85
00:03:18,959 --> 00:03:21,039
Yeah. I think, obviously, there's a lot of

86
00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:23,219
hot topics right now. I think,

87
00:03:24,224 --> 00:03:27,205
you know, one big topic and

88
00:03:27,585 --> 00:03:29,264
and it it will not be an easy

89
00:03:29,264 --> 00:03:30,724
thing to overcome, but

90
00:03:31,504 --> 00:03:33,925
a lot of us in this ASC space,

91
00:03:34,305 --> 00:03:37,365
you know, the the trend in orthopedics especially

92
00:03:37,425 --> 00:03:40,909
is for outpatient surgery. The the projected market

93
00:03:40,909 --> 00:03:42,289
growth in ASCs

94
00:03:42,590 --> 00:03:45,409
is exponential. Everybody understands that.

95
00:03:45,870 --> 00:03:49,090
We are now able to safely and successfully

96
00:03:49,389 --> 00:03:50,289
take care of

97
00:03:50,669 --> 00:03:54,449
probably 75%, 80% of most orthopedic conditions, including

98
00:03:54,590 --> 00:03:56,504
spine surgery and joint replacement

99
00:03:57,044 --> 00:03:58,585
at an ASC facility.

100
00:03:59,444 --> 00:04:01,625
But yet the, you know, CMS

101
00:04:02,324 --> 00:04:03,784
and other payers

102
00:04:04,485 --> 00:04:05,784
continue to reimburse

103
00:04:06,085 --> 00:04:08,985
ASCs at a lower rate than outpatient

104
00:04:09,365 --> 00:04:10,425
hospital centers.

105
00:04:11,210 --> 00:04:13,550
And that disconnect is gonna be a problem.

106
00:04:14,090 --> 00:04:16,089
It already is a problem as the margins

107
00:04:16,089 --> 00:04:16,750
are thin.

108
00:04:17,209 --> 00:04:20,250
And in the competitive landscape, we need to

109
00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:22,509
really find a way to lobby CMS

110
00:04:23,474 --> 00:04:25,094
to make that ASC

111
00:04:25,394 --> 00:04:26,214
and HOPD

112
00:04:26,594 --> 00:04:27,094
reimbursement

113
00:04:27,394 --> 00:04:28,055
the same.

114
00:04:28,834 --> 00:04:32,134
And, again, hospital lobbies are strong and and

115
00:04:32,194 --> 00:04:34,514
important, and, you know, the hospital needs to

116
00:04:34,514 --> 00:04:36,860
make money, and we understand that. But by

117
00:04:36,860 --> 00:04:38,860
the same token, a lot of hospitals own

118
00:04:38,860 --> 00:04:40,720
surgery centers as well. So

119
00:04:41,180 --> 00:04:42,240
that is a huge

120
00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:44,720
topic on

121
00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:47,279
just in terms of the economics

122
00:04:47,660 --> 00:04:50,480
of ASCs. And, obviously, it's a huge

123
00:04:51,115 --> 00:04:52,254
hurdle to overcome

124
00:04:52,555 --> 00:04:54,574
lobbying the federal government is

125
00:04:55,194 --> 00:04:56,254
extraordinarily difficult.

126
00:04:57,115 --> 00:04:59,354
Absolutely. So, obviously, the the trend and the

127
00:04:59,354 --> 00:04:59,854
migration

128
00:05:00,235 --> 00:05:00,974
to outpatient

129
00:05:01,274 --> 00:05:04,074
surgery, it's been happening for for quite a

130
00:05:04,074 --> 00:05:06,270
while. But maybe am I right in saying

131
00:05:06,330 --> 00:05:09,290
accelerated when the pandemic came along? But when

132
00:05:09,290 --> 00:05:11,850
you think about it, doctor Hanum, it wasn't

133
00:05:11,850 --> 00:05:13,550
too long ago when

134
00:05:14,089 --> 00:05:17,709
surgeries like spine surgeries, total hips, total knees

135
00:05:17,930 --> 00:05:20,670
required a couple nights stay in a hospital.

136
00:05:21,004 --> 00:05:22,845
Now we're seeing them being done, you know,

137
00:05:22,845 --> 00:05:25,485
in an in an ASC like yours. Patients

138
00:05:25,485 --> 00:05:26,384
open ambulate

139
00:05:26,685 --> 00:05:28,524
ambulated out the door in a couple of

140
00:05:28,524 --> 00:05:32,925
hours, reduced pain, limited opioid use. Robotics is

141
00:05:32,925 --> 00:05:35,084
a big big buzzword, and it's certainly growing

142
00:05:35,084 --> 00:05:37,300
in the total joint space as well. I'm

143
00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:40,120
curious to see where do you see outpatient

144
00:05:40,259 --> 00:05:41,959
surgery, specifically in orthopedics,

145
00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:44,180
5 years down the road, what do you

146
00:05:44,180 --> 00:05:46,259
think will be different? What will remain the

147
00:05:46,259 --> 00:05:46,759
same?

148
00:05:47,699 --> 00:05:49,220
Well, I think it's I think you're right.

149
00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:52,274
I think it's gonna continue to exponentially accelerate.

150
00:05:52,334 --> 00:05:53,474
You know, I think we,

151
00:05:54,254 --> 00:05:54,914
you know,

152
00:05:55,535 --> 00:05:56,595
as a clinician,

153
00:05:57,294 --> 00:05:59,694
you know, first and foremost, we wanna take

154
00:05:59,694 --> 00:06:01,694
great care of our patients. We don't wanna

155
00:06:01,694 --> 00:06:03,720
put them in harm's way and we want

156
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,860
them to have excellent outcomes. And so

157
00:06:07,639 --> 00:06:08,860
the push towards

158
00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:11,660
rapid recovery and outpatient surgery,

159
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,939
we always thought that patients could recover quicker,

160
00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:16,459
but you're right. The pandemic

161
00:06:16,884 --> 00:06:18,024
really forced us

162
00:06:18,564 --> 00:06:20,745
to accelerate that learning curve.

163
00:06:21,205 --> 00:06:23,045
And once we proved that we could do

164
00:06:23,045 --> 00:06:25,145
it safely and that patient satisfaction

165
00:06:25,685 --> 00:06:29,125
was actually higher and complications rates were actually

166
00:06:29,125 --> 00:06:31,064
lower than, you know,

167
00:06:31,399 --> 00:06:33,160
the sky became the limit, and we just

168
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,160
really accelerated that. And that that trend is

169
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,639
gonna continue. I think spine is a big

170
00:06:37,639 --> 00:06:40,279
area. We're we're starting to see trends right

171
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:41,020
now. There's

172
00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,600
there's a lot of procedures that our spine

173
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:45,100
doctors

174
00:06:46,555 --> 00:06:48,735
feel they can safely do in the ASC

175
00:06:48,875 --> 00:06:49,854
space, but,

176
00:06:50,394 --> 00:06:52,954
CMS and other payers have not approved a

177
00:06:52,954 --> 00:06:54,474
lot of those codes to be done at

178
00:06:54,474 --> 00:06:55,214
the ASC.

179
00:06:55,595 --> 00:06:57,595
That's gonna change in the next few years.

180
00:06:57,595 --> 00:07:00,149
There's there's no question about it. So I

181
00:07:00,149 --> 00:07:02,470
truly believe we're gonna be doing, you know,

182
00:07:02,470 --> 00:07:02,970
75%

183
00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:04,649
of orthopedic care

184
00:07:05,029 --> 00:07:08,230
in an outpatient center. It's it's unfortunately the

185
00:07:08,389 --> 00:07:11,110
only the very, very sick patients, the trauma

186
00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:13,610
patients, the complex revision

187
00:07:14,324 --> 00:07:15,845
surgeries that have to be done. Those are

188
00:07:15,845 --> 00:07:17,044
the only things that are going to be

189
00:07:17,044 --> 00:07:18,584
done in a hospital setting.

190
00:07:19,125 --> 00:07:22,024
Yeah. So like you said, that other 25%

191
00:07:22,644 --> 00:07:24,664
portion of patients is either going to be

192
00:07:24,805 --> 00:07:27,384
highly complex orthopedic care. I'm presuming

193
00:07:27,685 --> 00:07:29,224
patients with a lot of comorbidities,

194
00:07:30,139 --> 00:07:32,699
maybe fractures. And like you said, for the

195
00:07:32,699 --> 00:07:34,459
lion's share, the rest of those surgeries are

196
00:07:34,459 --> 00:07:35,899
gonna be able to be done safely in

197
00:07:35,899 --> 00:07:37,519
the outpatient setting going forward.

198
00:07:38,620 --> 00:07:40,720
No question. No question about it.

199
00:07:41,339 --> 00:07:44,060
And, doctor Hanna, I wanna revisit something you

200
00:07:44,060 --> 00:07:46,334
said at the top of the conversation just

201
00:07:46,334 --> 00:07:49,535
about the orthopedic landscape more broadly when we

202
00:07:49,535 --> 00:07:52,595
think about the United States. Like you said,

203
00:07:52,814 --> 00:07:55,394
Emerge Ortho, the result of a

204
00:07:55,774 --> 00:07:58,514
merger and acquisition many years ago, now the

205
00:07:58,689 --> 00:08:01,250
7th largest orthopedic group in the country as

206
00:08:01,250 --> 00:08:01,829
you said.

207
00:08:02,129 --> 00:08:03,750
How do you see this trend

208
00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:05,189
of consolidation

209
00:08:05,569 --> 00:08:07,110
among orthopedic practices?

210
00:08:07,889 --> 00:08:09,750
The growing nature of these orthopedic

211
00:08:10,209 --> 00:08:11,990
management services organizations

212
00:08:12,664 --> 00:08:14,824
seems to be a hot topic, a big

213
00:08:14,824 --> 00:08:17,264
trend in recent years. Do you expect more

214
00:08:17,264 --> 00:08:18,904
of the same in the future as more

215
00:08:18,904 --> 00:08:21,245
of these groups of independent providers band together?

216
00:08:22,745 --> 00:08:24,764
I do. I think we've

217
00:08:25,779 --> 00:08:28,759
seen an influx of private equity. We've seen

218
00:08:29,060 --> 00:08:30,740
I don't know if that's going to increase

219
00:08:30,740 --> 00:08:32,580
or I don't know if that's maybe even

220
00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:33,960
on the downturn because

221
00:08:34,820 --> 00:08:37,379
not all of the private equity experiments have

222
00:08:37,379 --> 00:08:39,080
turned out well. There was

223
00:08:39,875 --> 00:08:42,835
initial enthusiasm for that in some markets, but

224
00:08:42,835 --> 00:08:43,335
then

225
00:08:43,794 --> 00:08:45,794
the second go around or the third go

226
00:08:45,794 --> 00:08:46,294
around,

227
00:08:46,754 --> 00:08:49,315
when you have somebody who's mostly focused on

228
00:08:49,315 --> 00:08:51,715
their investors and their return on their investment,

229
00:08:51,715 --> 00:08:53,039
it's not really the same

230
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,079
focus as the medical practice group. So, you

231
00:08:56,079 --> 00:08:58,320
know, we've taken a different tactic in trying

232
00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,299
to grow large

233
00:08:59,839 --> 00:09:00,339
regionally.

234
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,059
And then, you know, as you just said,

235
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,379
the whole philosophy of MSOs

236
00:09:05,759 --> 00:09:06,980
on a broad scale,

237
00:09:07,304 --> 00:09:10,504
We've already started to partner with other large

238
00:09:10,504 --> 00:09:13,725
orthopedic groups on the West Coast, in Texas,

239
00:09:13,784 --> 00:09:14,524
in Indiana

240
00:09:15,065 --> 00:09:16,605
to try to come to,

241
00:09:16,904 --> 00:09:18,445
you know, some commonality

242
00:09:18,985 --> 00:09:19,485
to

243
00:09:20,419 --> 00:09:22,919
help other large groups become successful

244
00:09:23,379 --> 00:09:24,659
and how do we do that on a

245
00:09:24,659 --> 00:09:27,399
national scale and at the same time enable

246
00:09:27,779 --> 00:09:30,579
other smaller orthopedic groups to piggyback off of

247
00:09:30,579 --> 00:09:31,319
our successes.

248
00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:33,379
So, you know, we kind of think of

249
00:09:33,379 --> 00:09:37,314
ourselves as the private equity and independent orthopedic

250
00:09:37,454 --> 00:09:40,115
groups except we don't wanna own your group.

251
00:09:40,174 --> 00:09:41,554
We just wanna help you

252
00:09:42,014 --> 00:09:43,235
grow your success.

253
00:09:44,334 --> 00:09:46,254
Yeah. It's really interesting to keep an eye

254
00:09:46,254 --> 00:09:48,160
on that trend in terms of, I like

255
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,399
you said, moving away from ownership will be

256
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,559
will be more of an affiliation, more of

257
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,639
a partner, and looking to grow, it sounds

258
00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:56,720
like, from more of a regional group to

259
00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,540
a lot of these larger national orthopedic group

260
00:09:59,934 --> 00:10:00,754
in the future.

261
00:10:01,295 --> 00:10:03,615
Doctor Hanam, last thing I wanted to ask

262
00:10:03,615 --> 00:10:05,295
before we let you go, what are you

263
00:10:05,295 --> 00:10:07,055
excited about? When you think about the future

264
00:10:07,055 --> 00:10:07,795
of orthopedics,

265
00:10:08,335 --> 00:10:10,595
the future of ASCs, what are you excited

266
00:10:10,654 --> 00:10:12,175
about when you think about the next 5

267
00:10:12,175 --> 00:10:13,075
years or so?

268
00:10:13,589 --> 00:10:15,990
The experience that I have in the last

269
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:17,610
5 years, I am

270
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:18,490
really

271
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:20,169
excited about

272
00:10:21,190 --> 00:10:23,350
the care that we're giving patients and being

273
00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:24,709
able to take care of them in an

274
00:10:24,709 --> 00:10:25,929
outpatient facility.

275
00:10:26,414 --> 00:10:27,634
Their patient satisfactions

276
00:10:28,334 --> 00:10:29,554
are through the roof.

277
00:10:30,014 --> 00:10:31,714
People are really recovering

278
00:10:32,095 --> 00:10:33,315
quicker and easier,

279
00:10:34,174 --> 00:10:36,575
and we're going to continue that. We're taking

280
00:10:36,575 --> 00:10:39,154
advantage of new technologies. You mentioned robotics,

281
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:41,350
You know, AI and health care is a

282
00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:43,910
huge hot topic. We've incorporated that on a

283
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:44,730
small scale

284
00:10:45,029 --> 00:10:46,169
in terms of documentation.

285
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:49,110
Basically, that's the easiest thing to do in

286
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:51,350
AI right now is is to have the

287
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:55,075
AI, listen to conversations and help with transcription

288
00:10:55,375 --> 00:10:57,855
and those things, but it's gonna play a

289
00:10:57,855 --> 00:10:59,934
role in our analytics. It's gonna play a

290
00:10:59,934 --> 00:11:02,514
role in just taking better care of,

291
00:11:02,975 --> 00:11:06,335
developing care pathways and clinical pathways for patients.

292
00:11:06,335 --> 00:11:08,835
So, you know, that combination of technology

293
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:13,620
and rapid recovery and outpatient surgery to basically

294
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,720
get people back healthy and upright and recovered

295
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,339
from whatever their condition is

296
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,559
is pretty exciting. So

297
00:11:21,774 --> 00:11:24,095
Yeah. Yeah. And last, but I promise this

298
00:11:24,095 --> 00:11:25,695
is the last, last question. But tacking on

299
00:11:25,695 --> 00:11:27,534
to what you've mentioned there in terms of

300
00:11:27,534 --> 00:11:30,014
really excited about being able to deliver that

301
00:11:30,014 --> 00:11:31,774
top quality, top tier patient care in the

302
00:11:31,774 --> 00:11:35,315
outpatient setting, no doubt minimally invasive surgery, robotics

303
00:11:35,375 --> 00:11:37,529
plays into that quite some bit, but will

304
00:11:37,529 --> 00:11:39,289
likely play an even larger role in the

305
00:11:39,289 --> 00:11:40,889
future. I know this is an area of

306
00:11:40,889 --> 00:11:43,690
particular expertise for you as well. But I

307
00:11:43,690 --> 00:11:44,169
I guess,

308
00:11:44,889 --> 00:11:47,769
when you think about the total knee, total

309
00:11:47,769 --> 00:11:50,644
hip robots now, what do you think the

310
00:11:50,644 --> 00:11:53,684
next iteration or the next version of these

311
00:11:53,684 --> 00:11:56,245
robots will be? Is there something that you're

312
00:11:56,245 --> 00:11:58,004
hoping that the next version of these robots

313
00:11:58,004 --> 00:11:59,544
can do that they currently can?

314
00:12:00,884 --> 00:12:03,625
For sure. I think, you know, the learning

315
00:12:03,924 --> 00:12:06,639
that the whether it's an AI learning or

316
00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:08,259
it's just embedded in the

317
00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:10,980
software is just gonna continue to

318
00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:12,660
improve. You know?

319
00:12:13,039 --> 00:12:15,759
You know, right now, the robot in a

320
00:12:15,759 --> 00:12:16,580
knee replacement

321
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,259
can help with

322
00:12:18,565 --> 00:12:19,065
mediolateral,

323
00:12:20,085 --> 00:12:21,065
anterior posterior

324
00:12:21,524 --> 00:12:22,024
balancing,

325
00:12:22,805 --> 00:12:24,185
and range of motion.

326
00:12:24,644 --> 00:12:27,285
Well, there's multiple degrees of freedom in a

327
00:12:27,285 --> 00:12:27,785
knee,

328
00:12:28,404 --> 00:12:28,904
and

329
00:12:29,285 --> 00:12:31,925
having a robot that can simulate in real

330
00:12:31,925 --> 00:12:32,425
time

331
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:35,129
the kinematics of any given patient

332
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:36,409
to essentially

333
00:12:36,789 --> 00:12:39,990
perfectly reproduce that as it builds the custom

334
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:40,730
knee replacement,

335
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:43,110
you know, that's the holy grail. Well, that's

336
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:46,004
really complicated. We're not there yet. But there's

337
00:12:46,004 --> 00:12:48,085
no reason to expect that that can't be

338
00:12:48,085 --> 00:12:48,585
achieved,

339
00:12:49,125 --> 00:12:52,245
especially with AI modeling that can then be

340
00:12:52,245 --> 00:12:54,565
built into a system. You know, again, it

341
00:12:54,565 --> 00:12:55,945
takes a while for manufacturers

342
00:12:56,325 --> 00:12:58,519
to be able to do that and, you

343
00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,399
know, FDA clearance and things like that for

344
00:13:01,399 --> 00:13:01,899
medical

345
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,059
devices takes a long time, but

346
00:13:04,919 --> 00:13:06,840
it will not stop. It will only get

347
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:07,340
better.

348
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,840
Yeah. Doctor Hanlon, a real pleasure to to

349
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,179
pick your brains. I hear your insights on

350
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,904
outpatient surgery, trends in orthopedics. I'm super interested

351
00:13:16,904 --> 00:13:19,065
to kinda hear about your thoughts on robotics

352
00:13:19,065 --> 00:13:21,225
for the future as well. Real pleasure to

353
00:13:21,225 --> 00:13:22,584
have you back on the podcast with us,

354
00:13:22,584 --> 00:13:23,865
and I look forward to catching up with

355
00:13:23,865 --> 00:13:25,004
you again down the line.

356
00:13:25,464 --> 00:13:26,985
Oh, I would love to do it again,

357
00:13:26,985 --> 00:13:28,365
Alan. I appreciate it.