You have reached the snail trail 4 basel
4 podcast
voice mail.
If you wanna leave some feedback about Toyota's,
have questions about Toyota's, maybe poke some fun
at Toyota,
or let us know how your Jl came
with a Starbucks membership, then leave it all
on the line
and we'll get to it on the podcast.
Keep calling.
What's up everybody. Welcome to snail mail.
Did I have you on the seat your...
The edge of your seat? The seat of
your edge? The seat of my your pants?
Pants seat edge of your chance seats? I
was standing on the ledge, but I step
backwards. That's good. I'm glad. Yep. Thanks. Yeah,
Man. We are here today to go over
some voice mails with everybody. Nice.
Yeah. How many do we have this week?
14, 14.
14.
So what did we got, like, 4 or
5 done last week and got 6 Got
6 this week. Like At 13 last week.
So yeah. That sounds about right? Yeah, Man.
Well, that's good. You know what that means
Donnie called in 6 times.
He actually did 5 and a half. Perfect.
Man. We got some, yeah. We got some
fun voice mails here. It doesn't look like
there's any that are super or long. Nobody
got cut off. Okay? So maybe we can
get through a bunch of them and maybe
get caught up within a week here. Whoa
voice mail. That would be crazy. Oh, I
don't think it's gonna happen. That would be
fun though. I know. 1 day, 1 day
we'll get there. There may be. So if
you guys keep calling in, it'll never happen.
Nope. So stop calling in. Just kidding. Don't
do that though. Enjoy this segment we We
do. It's
it's kind of a where
we get to relax a little bit and
not have really a big structure for the
show, and we can just kinda goof off
it get to chat with you guys. So
more or less. Yeah. This... It's pretty cool.
Yeah. If you enjoy these episodes or any
of the episodes that we do, make sure
to subscribe to our Facebook group or be
a follower
member on our Patreon or not Patreon anymore.
Excuse me. I apologize. Oh. Yeah.
That's like so 20 20.
What yeah.
29 1? Do. Do you remember of our,
group on I irate 4 by 4. There
we go. You can get in for
behind the scenes items when we talk with
our members only on Facebook and on I
rate, or you can join our giveaway tier,
that one's 10 bucks. And
bi monthly or bi annually? Is that what
it is? Twice a year. Mh. Is it
bi bi? Bi annual? Yeah. Lee, we send
out,
gift boxes to
gift box tier members? Yeah. What do we
have, like, 60 something of them telling that.
Yeah. We're pretty crazy. We open that up
twice a year and we send out boxes
twice here, so that one's a lot of
fun. Yeah. So if you're looking at ways
to help support the snail trail 4 by
4. Look at those. Sounds good. Alright. Or
just keep calling in. No I love it.
Enjoyable too. That that's fun for us. So
The first 1 here. Okay.
I don't see a name.
Oh, man. I need to make that audio
button.
What's his name.
Yeah.
What's your name?
Jimmy. Ezekiel.
Anyways,
watch yours?
Anyways, Alright. Here we go. Let's
let's see what mister No name Where missing
no name has to say? Alright. Frank Rob
here.
Highlands.
I was just listening Friday's
bam, and I was wondering and have you
ever even contemplated
selling like a green tint india for your
coat. I know it can be done,
and then you'd have that little bit of
color that you want, but still have that
too so
make everything all fancy and city.
I find the funny that you'll be blue
about the backfill
when you just gonna go out and beat
the hell out of them.
Anyway, we probably guys. We try throw the
Idea app.
Ricky Rob Ricky rob. Thanks for calling in.
Yeah, man. I had never heard of throwing
a tent into a clear coat. I mean,
I guess it could be done. Yeah. I
I didn't think of it. Yeah. I've heard...
I I know that there are clear coding
tinted tinted versions, but, yeah, I didn't I
didn't think about that. Yeah. I think that
that'd be all. It would be. I don't
know if that solves the... I mean, I
guess it would solve the problem because I
I'd be able to see when the clear
coat is removed. Yeah. It wouldn't be tinted
green anymore. Yeah.
I'll think about it. I think I really...
I like the idea right now of
making the axles all black
like a flat black and then doing a
couple of things in some high
extension Neon extension. Some highlight, neon green,
contrast. Sense. Accents. Thank you. That's what I
looking for. And so, like, I wanna do
the M f logo on the the diamond
pumpkins and remove the diamond logo. Yep. The
knuckles. The knuckles I would love to do
a neon on green, but then it'll look
like crane axle knuckles, and their reed, knuckles,
it. So I don't know if I can...
If I should do that.
And then, the 4 wheel underground. I kinda
wanna talk to Brian see if there's a
way that I can remove
the 4 wheel underground logo wing off of,
like, the
the bump stops. Yeah. The bump stop brackets,
and
paint them neon green and then reapply them
on they cut out. I'm pretty sure they're
cut out Cut out, and I think they're
welded
onto the brackets.
It's, like thin
steel that's been cut and then molded
to the bracket and then welded tack welded
to it. I'm not sure exactly how it
does I haven't taken a look.
I thought they were just cut,
like,
negative space holes. I know that's done some
places.
Yeah. That is on... That might actually be
on the bump stops now I'm thinking about
it. But I know he has, like, a,
a plate cutout and then welded to the
surface. Kinda like the diamond is. Sure. My
bet is if you talked to Brian, he...
And you were willing to pay for it,
whatever he would have some cut out for
you that you could cut Probably green. Yeah.
And then paint everything all the stuff black
and men apply his green ones to. Yeah.
Especially since his diamond color is green. Yeah.
So... True. I bet you he would go
for it. Okay. Talk with them. Once I
get around to the the accent part of
it. I think I'm still... I like the
idea of just painting the stuff that down
low and leaving the frame stuff clear coded.
Okay. Because... Yeah. In theory, nothing should be
getting up to
where the brackets are on the frame and
everything. Oh,
no scratches. Yeah. Dirt and mud and water
and stuff will get up there. Exactly Since
the point of the clear code. Yeah. But,
yeah, It's well... So I think that's the
plan moving forward
with coloring the axles,
and we'll
I'll do a a grand review. I don't
know if I'll do a grand reveal wait
to show the wrap
until I get the all painted into.
We'll see. Okay.
I don't think I'll be able to hold
off. I don't.
I'm so excited for this rep. It looks
amazing.
Alright. So, yeah. Wreck it Ralph. Rob. Rob.
Rick Ralph That's a movie. Yeah. Rick Rob.
Rick Rob Thanks for calling Anybody. Who's A73
guy. So I've been talking to him about
Clifford.
I did. We... I was having a fun
discussion about seeing if there's a way I
can put A67
high output.
Into the fore runner.
The answer is yes. I mean, in theory,
yeah. All you gotta do is make sure
the body panels can still sit on and
line up. And that's if you need to
make custom mounting options for that, then that's
fine. I'll do Baja cars don't do it
for you. Yeah. Yeah.
Anybody have a spare 6 7 alpha motor
sitting around? If you do. I want it
to put him to Clifford.
No. What? You're gonna put in the 4
runner? Well, that too. Okay. That works. So
we need 2. 2 of those 2 of
them please. Yeah.
Next voice is from Beer Craig. Dear Craig.
What up? Yeah, let's not mead Craig. Can
I know? Man. Let's see what he's gets.
Not too long. See what he's gonna say.
Hey. This is Peter Craig.
Having this 1 quick for the first time.
2 things.
I'm also part of the
snail trail,
trucker mafia out here. And you saw you
know passing
ham radio.
Test that sounds exactly like passing.
The
definitely a Cdl permit, but Cdl
license here of,
I did wash parts per a day, and
I passed on my permit,
and then
for your Cdl,
you just kind of, like, vaguely point. Do
you say the right word
for your pre?
And he pass that.
So
kinda like get your ham. It's just the
Tv is getting your Cdl
Oklahoma on.
Second thing because I was inspired
by your 2 review.
And something me you said on the most
preset, 05:15
9. I don't know. I
nope. Doesn't matter. 5 sixteenth,
you were talking about in
High sierra Right. So here's my true review
of
Northeast Oklahoma.
And Northwest Arkansas,
during gift stripes.
You're anybody.
Thanks for coming. So Oklahoma oklahoma.
Thanks guys.
Appreciate everything.
Have a good day. Bye.
Nice. Oklahoma pins stripes. Yep. Yep. That's what
you're gonna get. Yep. Too bad that vehicle
drove by ride at the, like, second the
last thing he said. I didn't catch what
it was. I didn't catch it either. Yeah.
But what was he said was this part
of the snail trail 4 by 4 truck
mafia?
It's snail trail truckers, Mafia. Truckers, Mafia. Yeah.
I don't know what That is. Neither do
I. You need to have a cease and
desist with my name. I know. Right? They
probably were around before me. But
Yeah. It's fun. Definitely getting your ham radio
license, the technician license at least, the entry
level 1. Yeah. Is very much like getting
your Oklahoma City apparently.
And,
another fun fact is as you're diagnosing
trail repair stuff.
That's also kinda like your pre trip
your, pre chip test for your Cdl as
well. Got it. You just kind of
vaguely point in the direction and say the
semi rights sounding word and
that's your diagnostic. And all those bolts are
tight. Yep. Yeah.
Exactly.
Man, speaking, of trail diagnostics. I wanted to
get to this in Thursday's episode I totally
forgot to just my okay? I have to
give another
shout out slash claim disclaimer to people,
never
ever win to an axle.
Okay. Are we gonna talk about Sean? Yeah.
Okay. Let's do it.
And I... It it sucks because the person
that ultimately made the decision to win to
the axle listens to the podcast. I know
he's heard us talk about never went to
an axle before. But technically, he was trying
to win to it as a suck down
win.
So,
except he wasn't trying to suck down the
body to the axle. He was trying to
suck the axle up to the frame,
and I'm like, gravity doesn't work that way.
If you're down... If you're in a hole,
And you just... You're kinda undercut. You're not
to be able to lift a tire up
with your win. No. It's gonna pull the
whole body down to your tire. Correct. And
he was thinking he'd be able to lift
the tire up so I could put rocks
under the tire.
Rather than jacking up the tire with a
high lift and putting rocks under it. No.
And so by doing that, a,
that win is not set up as a
suck down win where the the line can
come out the bottom of the win.
It's set up as a win to come
out forward. So they... The angle of pulling
was way more extreme forward than it was
upwards.
And because of that, they turned a leaf
spring into an l, Yeah.
So so while looking.
Oh my god. I've never seen anyone like
that. I've never seen a least spring do
that before. And I I was looking at
that. I was like
that has to be a fucked up like
metal. Like, It has to be a fucked
up metal production or something in the leaf
spring. I was like, you... I don't I
don't know how you do that. Off road,
a rock crawling. There's no way. Like... And
then I started thinking about it I was,
if they had win to an axle,
and pulled it and, like, really got something
jammed up, like, maybe.
But I was even still that so much
force. Yeah.
I was like, how are they pulling them
backwards
enough to shove the axle forward to bend
a lee Spring that way? Permanently bend least
ring there. It's all like the loose spring
bent, like, it's normal arch. No. It's it
it's a l. It's an L bracket now.
Here's is what it is. It's a shack.
Front
Sorry to shack. Yeah.
Man. It's a it's a 3 inch lift.
It's a 4 inch lift springs. The trail
gear 4 inch lift Springs are now turned
into a 7 to 8 inch lift. Yeah.
Springs on that side. And the axle on
the driver's side is moved forward 6 inches,
apparently. Yeah. And that
ended up destroying a bunch of other stuff
too. So
I feel I feel very bad for Sean,
and
another Psa if everybody
just don't win to axles. It's almost never
a good idea unless you know exactly what
you're doing and your rig is set up
to do that. Right. Unless you have a
dedicated suck down win with a set... Like,
the line going in the correct direction and
the proper,
hook ups. Yeah. Then,
you know, yeah. You can do a sec
down win. Yep. But don't... You can't really
turn, especially if the win lines coming out
of the front
of your win. You can't turn that into
a suck down win. No. It does not
work. Physics does not work that way. No.
So
just wanted the axle in the wrong direction.
Wanted to give that Psa. As or just
a reminder, we've done a lot of recovery
episodes. Now we've talked a lot of really
great recovery people on the episode.
On this podcast, and it's always comes down
to
educate yourself on the physics at play and
work with the physics. Never try and out
do physics. It will never work in your
favor.
So just another the Psa?
Yes. Pay attention when you're doing recoveries and
understand fifth physics. If you don't understand physics,
don't do the recovery.
Yeah. It's just way more likely you're gonna
do way more damage then recover the vehicle
by it's possible. Yep.
Okay. Rant over. Okay.
Good. Thanks for calling Bear Craig.
Next,
you know what? I like... I like how
people give themself an
identifier that separates their normal name from everybody
else. Yeah. Like, we have Wreck Rob. Mh.
We have, you know, a Rover don. Yep.
We got, you know, Lee, cruiser,
Air craig. We got
Yeah. Exactly. Lance not the company. Lance not
the company. We got all these guys. Yeah.
You know, that... I mean, most of them
don't have a common name anyway. U. But
Yeah. If you do call in it's kinda
funny to see what how you identify yourself.
Yeah. We have... What was the guy Desert,
Joe, Desert Jason, Jays Las Vegas. Yeah. Yeah.
Desert or something. Yeah. So that was kinda
fun. I like this. I I did. I
agree.
Speaking of. Okay? We a call from?
Drum roll, please.
You're craig. You're craig.
Again, again, here we go. Okay. Hey. Try
again. Sorry.
I wanted to add... Because Not a bit.
As I was just walking through versus directly
my first message.
Same about, you said back Oklahoma,
sounds like it's kinda very interesting.
Why
you have to in these spy oversight,
because
that's all you have.
You just have to
learn about a lot of things
and make this weird
life for yourself because
nothing out here.
So
thanks, guys. Have a good day. Bye.
Dang. Yeah. Did not sound happy about that.
I'm sorry. Sorry.
Sorry offend anybody with that. It's a it's
No. I'd I I always find it fascinating,
though. The the lives that people lead and
how they got to where they are and
their stories of
where they are in life. Right? I always
find it fascinating. Mh. And so, yeah. I
I know, you know, the the quote fly
overstate as he split it. There's not a
lot going on. I had... I had some
good good friends in rafting world
that were from Midwest states, and they're just
like, Yeah. All, there's... There's they'll there's nothing
to really entertain yourself, so you have to
find stuff actively
to go and entertain yourself, and that's tell
mud bug competition start now with all the
stuff. So... Like, yeah. Okay. That makes sense.
Fully understand it. You know, I came from
a small town. Like, there's nothing to do
out there. You know? So what do you
do? You know, you party, You drink. You
get yourself into trouble. You drive cars too
fast, You know? It's not the responsible things
to do. You go around... You go around
town looking for the escape pig. Yeah. And,
you know, Ut people's houses, Big people or
whatever. You know, you've Yep. The Bowling alley
is giving away bowling pins and so you
get a bunch and you start driving around
town throwing them at science. You know, that's
that's just what you do. Like,
I don't know that story Nope. That one's
afraid to get.
1 of them bounce back and hit the
car.
Nice. Yeah.
Don't tell my mom.
She thought I hit something in the road.
Yeah A holy
But, yeah. I mean, I fully fully understand
that, you know, you you have to to
some extent, and this is what I tell
my daughter, you have to create funds. Sometimes.
Yep. And you don't always have somebody around
to make something happen Sometimes you have to
do it yourself. Yep. So, yeah. I know
that, you know, I definitely understand the side
of you had to be creative and you
had to figure out things to make life
enjoyable. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
It's just whatever you... What do you wanna
do? Mh.
You call back? No. We have another 1.
I'm debating... We're gonna play it. Yeah.
I'm... I don't know if we're going to
Eric.
Okay. It's Tom Rosa. Oh,
But he jet hates half jeep isn't he?
Yeah. But he's not calling for us.
Alright. Are we a complaint line right now?
I think So... Oh, this is gonna great.
I don't know. I haven't read the whole
thing. I just read the first sentence and
I'm like,
I don't know if I wonder if you
listened to this 1. Hey, Wheel white and
whiskey. Yeah. Hey, Jesus Chris.
That is great. Oh, okay. Let's do it.
Here we go, Tom.
Hey Jason and Chris. Bro. How are you
guys doing?
Hey. I wanna tell you guys great episode.
I just heard
D fab, that guy makes a great chassis.
My by my buddy Tailgate out of Son
nora just built a 4 steer
out of 1 of those chassis. And it's
a machine. Works really good. Anyway, But Drop
you line. Sorry. I missed you guys at
Prairie City
would have loved to tip back some cups.
But unfortunately,
the Cj needed a little love with that
a
transfer case that decided to,
have AAA divorce
come a divorce transfer case. Anyway,
happy trails in Toyota to suck? Do you
think he meant to call us?
I don't... I have he has to our
voice mail message. Yeah. That's true. Is
very different from Jason and Chris's voice mail
message. Yeah. That is funny. Yeah. Good job,
Tom. Yep. Nice. We'll
maybe we'll say if you guys wanna hear
this episode or this message. Go, we'll just
forwarded it on to Jason and Chris. There
we go or something. Well, Don't know. We'll
probably erin. We'll see. Hold Yeah. I'll forward
the I don't this to be the first
voice mail that we don't play.
Yeah. I guess. Oh, he did call back.
Oh, okay.
In
a week later.
Okay. So, let's get to Zach Oklahoma first.
Get to hear from Zach. Maybe he finally
realized said he'd called the wrong number. It's
week later a week later. Yeah. It sounds
like a Cj j prize. What's Jimmy and
Tyler. Hey, Zach Zach.
Oklahoma. Yeah. I got back from my trip,
like,
last week,
relative to this voice mail.
I went to 11 different state park. Wow.
In 2 National park.
That's cool.
Drip was amazing. Cedar Appointment was great.
They get right the direction that who's down
when It went. Bummer.
But
I did blow up my mountain lake tire.
I got it fixed though when I was
in Mammoth cave.
But it was great. Also, when I got
back, I got parts in for my next
project. I'm gonna build a camper show. I'm
my bed and
have a set where I can sleep out
of the bed of my truck.
Now I have the short bed, so it's
not very big, but
I'm a little of... I'm, like, 5 9.
So,
I usually curl up when I sleep anyways.
But
anyways,
I'm out to have to coffee in cars,
but y'all y'all all keep cross. I'll I'll
catch you later.
Sweet sweet, I'm kinda curious what he's building
the camper out of? Yeah. That would be
interesting to know. Mh.
Also, when he say short, bed is it
a 6 foot bed Or is it the
5 foot 1 bed? Oh, jeez. Yeah. Right?
Because I'm like, man, I'm 5 8 on
a good day. Really?
Yes. You look. Oh, shut up. And
I... I'm 5 8
or, like, 573
quarters or whatever it is.
And I can't imagine trying to sleep in
a 5 foot 1 space. I can't do
there. Well, yeah. You can't imagine sleeping in
a 6 foot bed.
But there's just... I feel like I would
be okay,
sleeping scrunch up. Mh. But there's just times
when you wanna spread or, like, stretch out.
Right? Yep. Like, there's just... You wanna, like,
roll on your back and kick your feet
out. Yep.
You don't wanna have to, like, stay scrunch
up. So I don't... Like, yeah. I'm curious
about how you're doing it if you're organizing
it to sleep
So you could have the tailgate down so
you can get it get those extra few
inches. Mh. Or what, you know, 16 ish
instant inches, I should know.
I make panels for tailgate for trucks. Okay.
Got it. I know how big tailgate are.
Alright. That that's definitely what I was thinking
about. Yeah. You know. Exactly okay.
16 inch black tailgate. U.
K. That should be the name of your
next business by the way. 16 inch black
ones.
They like it. Alright. Yeah. They all have
a funny symbol etched into that.
That would be the more flake way. Wouldn't
it? Yes. Yeah. Totally this is the way.
So... Yeah. That call us back. Let me
know, let us know about how you were
gonna build this thing out or what's your
plans are.
We... Or my family is now going on
a roller coaster trip, so we'll I'll keep
you guys informed about that. Nice. Yeah. That'd
be call. Send a send some pictures to
Zach and, like, below each roller coaster. Yeah.
Right? Here I am upside down. Yeah.
On Superman or whatever they call it.
Okay. So next 1. Okay. You're calling crap.
This is a long 1. 0, this is
Tom Rosa. Oh, a week later realized what
phone number he called.
So he's calling back. Okay. See how his
divorce went.
Sounds good. Yep. Okay. Hey, guys. I just
wanna call you on the 5 8 seeing
the conservation and stuff of
wilderness and everything.
At 2 points.
1, I think you're off basis on you
can't take pictures in the Wilderness.
I think the
idea is you can't profit from pictures taken
in the Wilderness and national parks.
If you are doing an Instagram theory
and you're a
influencer that makes that makes money off of
ads
on social media.
It... That's a against law. You're not allowed
to do national park
through pictures and audio recordings or whatever.
So that that I kinda back up. Van
Wilderness as up and seen Instagram fancy boys
and lady
taking pictures with their little pet dogs and
No, big of a scene, and it's not
about the scene. It's about the serenity of
the wilderness and the quiet and
being 1 with nature
not
having these Yahoo
you know, distracted from that.
The other point is the access for all
and
trail
in area this different area.
Think to an extreme. If you started building
a bunch of trails through houston yosemite National
Park. When you're out there on a wilderness
hike and I don't think I want to
see. I don't think I want to see
cars driving by. I might I'm sure you
guys have 2 hike around Spider Lake where
it's just the beauty of the environment is
is it's just amazing.
And then you kind of finished your hike
around the inlet side and you come back
to the trail and the rub contra trail
is just
pounded the dust
with oil and parts strewn about the area.
I get it. That's how we got there.
That's how we get there. I love it.
But it is definitely mixed feeling. It definitely
gives you those 2
those are 2 opposing views of wilderness and
access and how my tuesday, van, Trails.
Thanks for calling the, wheel wine and whiskey
hotline.
I love it.
No. 2 awesome excellent points.
And, that's a good good
clarification on the,
photo,
I guess, the... That's going through then and
is kind of a big hub up right
now.
I'll need to double check and clarify on
it.
I still even if it's
it's... They're gonna go after people for profit
off of
images of it.
I still don't know how I feel
about that.
I don't know. I I'm... And I mean...
Because I I follow both sides. I mean,
like, I get... I understand,
Tom's view of, like,
I think what Tom was more or less
say, and was that, you know,
the point to being out in that the
national forest
is to be out in the national forest,
not to be out there doing photo shoots
or videos.
Or vlogging or anything else. Like, get out
into nature. I fully get that. Mh. I
think what your argument is is that the
national forest should not be coming after people
to make money.
Yes. 100 percent feels like that's what they're
doing.
Yes. Like, so your your point is that
they...
Like, it's against the law, but they should,
like, slap them with a fine or something
not super bad to... They're not supposedly making
the money off of it. Like, there So
I guess the kind of the question for
you in a way is Well, if it's
not... If it's illegal to do,
how what is the repercussions without being a
fine of money? What's the enforcement? Yeah. Mechanism
forth then.
Community service? You have to go do a
certain number of hours. Yeah in order to
help restore or maintain
the areas you took the images from that
you're profiting off of maybe? I don't know.
Yeah. I I don't I don't like the
idea. It just it just feels like a
lot of the stuff that B
especially is doing right now. And National Forest
is starting doing some of it. As well,
seems to be money grab stuff.
Yeah. For the sake of money grab stuff.
It doesn't... I don't know. It just doesn't
feel like their motives are
for the enjoyment of
the the forest
kind of thing. Right.
I... I'm... It's really interesting times.
With all this kinda going on. Mh. With,
you know, Youtube and solo,
like,
videographer
being able to come up and start a
business and make a good amount of money
Or have the potential to make a good
amount of money,
being
some sort of vlogger,
Instagram or, you know, social media
advertiser to some extent. Mh.
Where it seems like the
national Parks, so National Forest, B land is
coming down on people
visiting their land. Yeah?
Because
now there's a lot of people kind of
getting into this industry because there's a money
making opportunity,
but the,
national parks are kinda building like, hey, we
don't want you.
Don't want you here. We don't want you
doing your business. Yeah. We don't need you
around. Like, this isn't where you should be
doing business. Mh. You know, So it's a
really interesting kind time happening. Yeah.
It was. I also am a big fan
of sharing adventures. Yeah. I think that there's
a lot of people out there that
can't make it out to Utah. Can't make
it out to Moa and do wheel and
Moa and wheel Hell's revenge and Hell's kate.
And these
and come out to the Rub and wheel
the Rub.
So they really rely on content creators
who have built a life around
going on adventures and documenting those adventures to
share with other people.
I feel like those people almost for them,
getting out in the wilderness, that's how they
do it. And kinda of reset mentally from
their their day to day life. Sure. And
so I'm a huge
believer that
going out on adventures
and getting away from the day to day
life and escaping for a little bit is
absolutely necessary for mental health.
And I love my favorite way to do
that. There's lots of ways to escape from
life and distress. Right? My favorite way is
going on adventures. And and being a part
of adventures. And for some people, it's just
not
possible, whether it's physical ailments, keep them out,
whether it's mental ailments or whether it's monetary
resources,
whatever it is. I don't think it... And
so having that content available if other people
going out sharing their adventures and showing what
it's like to be on the rub corner.
Showing what it's like. To be in yosemite.
Mh. I think that it's... That's that's a
bigger value
than
the problems that come with that of
having
some valley girl with her little Chihuahua
showing up and running out to old faithful
to get pictures in front of old faithful
or touching flow or something Like, yeah. I
those are definitely those are definitely problems,
but
I think that the benefits of
content
creation and sharing and adventure sharing
way
outweighs the negatives of the potential problems that
comes with that. Right. That's my... Yeah. I
think that's that's my feeling. And maybe there's
a level of which, like, is... Maybe there
is a level of too much.
Yeah. You know. But, like, I'm just gonna
use a silly example because this last weekend
when we were out at the beach.
There was a group of, like,
6 young ladies. Mh.
Posing on the beach in their bikini eating
watermelon.
That seems fun of
Sorry. But I'm kinda I,
the dad and the other dad and I
were looking and watching going like, this is
ridiculous. Like, this is kinda silly. You know,
like, they,
and then they got down and, like, put
their knees where the water was breaking and
eating watermelon And I'm like, what are they
showing here? Like, what is... Even, like, Okay.
They're doing, like, maybe Tiktok reels or whatever.
But the what I'm... The point I'm trying
to bring it up is that
you don't Like, to some extent, you don't
have to pay attention to it. Yeah. You
could look the other way. Like, they were
down the beach. They were doing their own
thing. Mh. You know, they weren't bothering us
in anyway, they were just doing their thing,
and it caught... We were, like, what the
hell is happening. So we were, like, kinda
of, like, what are they doing? Truck out.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, But on the same
side, we could be in, like, they're shooting
some Tiktok real, and we're gonna turn our
head and watch our children play in the
sand. You know? It's like,
whatever. You know? So... But they weren't bothering
anybody. So I think there was a line
which like, okay. Is it bothering people? Yeah.
Or is it not bothering anybody?
That's a good question too. I personally in
those situations. I love people watching. Oh, yeah.
I mean I mean, that's half sitting on
the beach. Right? Exactly. Right. It's like, I
would have so much entertainment not in that
position or
watching train wreck happen. Right? Like, watching somebody
try and go touch a buffalo. Oh, I'd
be all over that. Just be like, this
person is gonna die. Yeah. I'm gonna
idiot.
Yeah. Natural selection at its finest. Let's go.
But, yeah, I don't know. It's a it's
a fine line. Right? At what point is
it bothering people. And
and at what point is it just really
just over the top, but it's not really
bothering people and at what point does that
become a bigger issue than the positives
of
being able to
share... Let people share their adventures. Right? Mh.
So, yeah. I don't know how many people
are gonna go watch that video or whatever
these girls eating watermelon on at a on
in the tide,
but is banning
them from doing that worth
banning everybody that's doing all the good stuff
too. Yeah. Don't know. Yeah. I'm not sure.
I think that's where the the debate happens.
Right? Yeah. Obviously. A hundred percent. And that's
what I think it just becomes interesting times
as somebody that is somewhat in the profession.
Mh. Of going of wheel and showing adventures
and going out and having fun and shooting
a photo of my vehicle. Mh. Like, if
I drive up on the Rub con, and
I'm on soup and I take a photo
of my truck on soup bowl, like,
is if I'm making money off of that,
that's illegal. Like, Yeah. I'd... That's what's ridiculous.
Mh. I don't think that should be a
late... Everybody takes a photo of their vehicle.
It's a matter of if you making money.
Yep. Yeah. And so it's also, like, say,
you shot that video on Super bowl. I'll
with your 4 wheel underground kit, and then
Brian decides to use it as marketing material.
Does he get fined now for...
Because he's making the money on it and
you didn't make any money on it kind
of thing or, yeah. I don't... It's there's
a lot of great area, and I don't
I don't like the potential that it opens
to misuse and abuse that law.
I think is another problem of it. I
look at a lot of laws
and that we have in this country and
I'm like, okay. Yeah. The loss states this,
but what is the real potential that you
could do with this law
kind of thing. And I know that that's
a huge contention point right now with the
Rub reroute going on?
There's a lot of... It's not
clearly what a very key component is not
clearly and explicitly defined
with the re reroute, and that's what's causing
a huge amount of contention with it. And
so it's like, yeah. Well, this lot and
the re reroute and everything sounds great. But
it's missing this 1
critical absolutely critical component to it
that the 4 service is saying, yeah, That's
still there, but it's not explicitly written into
the language.
So is it really there and can that
be abused in the future kind of thing?
And so I I just feel like this
whole
finding people for images and content created on
public lands is a step in the wrong
direction. I don't I don't I don't like
the where it could lead to as well.
Yeah.
I guess it draws a it draws a
gray line of what's public. Yeah. Right?
And that leaves it up into definition by
a judge kind of thing too. Yeah. A
subjective definition, I guess. It's public land shouldn't.
Why can't I I mean, I understand I
can't commit murder. Yeah. Right. Right? But... Yeah.
I should be... I could do business. Right?
Yeah. You... Yeah. I don't I don't pay
Like, I have my... I guess, I have
my own private property and I do business
there. Mh.
Yeah. I don't... I don't know. I need
to do more research and understand more about
it. Yeah. And then for the the second
part, I think, Tom
made a good illusion to it.
Is the difference between access
and
I guess the the the lows... Location, I
guess. Yeah. Are you're going to? I don't
know. Like, the Rub trail is an awesome
trail, but it's the access route through that
area.
Right? And so what the B is doing
is that they're closing all these access routes
to get to places like Spider Lake. So
let's just take through contra control for an
example because we talked about it a lot.
I don't think this ever in Blah. But
say, they're looking at El Dorado National forest
and they're like, hey, we need to do
a new travel management plan. And the Rub
trail
It's questionable as the whether or not it's
really used if it serves a purpose, blah
blah blah. So we're gonna shut it down.
Right.
How do you now access places like Buck
Island and Spider Lake for everybody.
Right.
Unless the argument is that not everybody deserves
to go out and re and and be
in these places. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I
think that a lot of it comes down
and, like, this is what Blue Ribbon was
talking about when on when we'd kinda discussed
on what was a 05:18? I think he
said, Mh. In regards to, like, handicapped people?
Yeah. Like, how do handicap people get to
places
that they have to access in a a
motor vehicle.
Mh. State, Like, if you close the Rub
down, how is somebody that is Para
gonna get to Buck Island like. Yeah. Helicopter?
Right. I don't... Is that allowed? I mean,
if it doesn't touch the ground. No helicopters
create too much environmental noise.
1 of the big issues with Oh is
that we create too much environmental noise with
our motors.
Yeah. So they don't let helicopters fly over
des destination wilderness? I don't know. It's a
good question.
Yeah. I don't. I bet you, I think
they do. I would imagine they do, but,
like, then is that a a double sided
coin or whatever double edged sword? I don't
know. Or they're have to fly over at,
like, 5 and feet or something You know,
that hat can't be close. Yeah. But... Yeah.
I don't... So the... What happens when we
drive electric vehicles.
Right? And there's less noise pollution. There's no
noise pollution. I mean tires on rocks maybe.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think that that's a a good
option, but it seems like people on that
side of the of the argument on that
side of the fence are saying,
any noise. Any we want is nature. Yeah.
All we want is nature. We don't want
anything disrupting it, and we don't want a
vehicle there at all. So even if once
we fix the quote unquote issue of noise
pollution by getting rid of internal combustion engines,
they're gonna come up with some other reasons.
Share. Absolutely. Yeah. I like the fact that
there are places that you can go where
there is no noise pollution. I agree. But
I also don't like the idea of taking
away
access to places that we already have because
somebody says there's too much noise pollution. Yeah.
When they do a different hobby that is
not the the noise pollution hobby. Mh. You
know, if somebody hikes to a Spider lake.
Mh.
Which there's an easy... Well, semi easy path
to get to the backside of spider like,
mh. I've paddle boarded to the backside of
spider like, Mh. Right? I've been on the
far side of Spider, and, you know, it
sounds like Tom talked about walking around, Spider.
You're on the far side of Spider and
you're hearing people rev up their engines playing
on soup Mh. But I think that, like,
in this example,
those people need to understand that there is
a dedicated off road trail there, and that's
that is part of that area. Like, yeah.
I think that's something he's missing. There's a
lack of, like, thought.
That Yeah. I'm going into nature, and I'm
doing a backpack packing trip, but I'm also
doing a backpack trip right next to a
on a off road trail. Yeah. Like, there's
you're gonna hear vehicles. Mh. Because that's where
you're going. Yeah. Right? I know that my
old man loved to... He... Back in the
day, he liked to go cross country ski
camping.
Okay. Right? And him and a buddy of
his would
go out for, like, 4 or 5 days
just go out into the middle of nowhere,
find some place to go camp, and then
every... They make a base camp and every
day, they go skiing in a some different
direction. Okay? And my old man hates snowmobile.
Yeah, because they are loud. Mh. And
they make a lot of noise and they
you know, how... They don't care for the
powder. Mh. You know, if they enjoy the
powder a different way than my dad enjoyed
the powder. Yeah. Right? And I'm like Well,
why do you go cross country ski camping
right next to snow
areas areas. Yeah. Like, why don't she go
somewhere else? Yeah. And he's... His whole thing
was well because there's not...
Like, this is an
a I don't a national park, I'll just
say or somewhere that allows cross country skiing,
but they also allows snowmobile. Yeah. Well, well,
then you can't get away from it. Yeah.
Like, this isn't
Like, snowmobile are gonna be out there and
you have to accept it. Yeah. It's not
something that you can't close this entire area
down because you want a peaceful
quiet area because you like going cross injury
skiing. Yeah. They also get to enjoy their
fun too. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what... That I
think that's really what it comes down to
is what makes
1 group able to say that their form
of enjoyment is better than another group's form
of enjoyment. Yeah. Yeah. And it's... It nobody
should. Yeah. In a way. Right? Mean, that
the way that it comes down is they
state that we're doing environmental mental damage. Yeah.
Therefore, they can get us shut down. Mh.
Because of environmental damage. It's not noise pollution.
Yeah. It's not the it... They're not getting
it shut down because oh, we're loud. Yeah.
In a shut down because we're rev our
engines because we're trying to climb something and
our tires are spinning. Mh. And it's doing
damage to the environment even though we're on
rock. Yep.
So that's what that's how they're get it
doing it. But what gives them the right
to say that their hobby is better than
our hobby or their hobby is better. It's
more superior. Mh. I I don't... There's no
answer. Yeah. I mean, I would say ours
is better because we could get to more
places
possibly quicker. We could go farther out than
and carry more things if needed. Mh. We
can help more people if somebody gets injured.
Mh. We also have more access for more
different types of disabilities than theirs does. Mh.
So, I... Yeah. I would say that ours
is better. Yeah. I don't know. I I
would argue. I'm gonna turn it around to
Tom because 1 of the things that he
mentioned, and... I'm doing this because I know
Tom, I love Tom. He's an awesome dude.
I love sitting down chatting with him about
stuff like this. Oh, yeah. I don't hate
the guy. Went... At. I mean, it's that's
the fun of some campfire fire discussion. Yeah.
Is being it is literally having a campfire
fire discussion. Sitting around talking and having a
good time. And be... All being friends at
the end of it. Yeah. Right? We're still
all friends. Yep. Yes. So he mentioned, you
know, his hike around a Spider Lake. Mh.
There's no trash. It's beautiful
and and blah blah, and then you come
back to the trail and there's oil stains
and parts strewn across the trail on blah
blah. So
my argument is university falls.
You know about University falls?
It was up in near Georgetown.
It. It is up in Georgetown.
4 falls. 4 falls is another. But... Yes.
So University falls 4 falls was a series
of amazing
waterfall,
natural water slides on rock. And it was...
It flowed over the rock for so many
years that the rock is, like,
super duper smooth. Yeah. There's a very film,
thin line of algae that grows on there
and you literally can slide down rock,
landed it on in board shorts. Then you
land in a big pool at the bottom.
The slides are maybe as big as like,
playground slide. Yeah. You know, they're not very
long, But the... It's 4 consecutive ones. Like,
you slide down 1, you swim across this
little pool and you slide down the next
1. It was... Yeah. It was a really
cool spot. Yep. It is closed. It is.
Yep. Because people
trashed it and there was injuries, tons.
Lots of injuries and a ton of trash,
and people did not maintain it did not
look after it.
And,
during Covid,
we saw that, when people went dispersed camping
in non access areas,
They left trash and just absolutely destroyed Areas.
And so I would argue that the leaving
trash and etcetera, blah blah blah, is a
people
issue not a form of recreation issue.
So by by saying that if we remove
access or we're we're not... We're against adding
more trails or we're against adding
routes or dealing with routes in an area
I would argue that then if
when people do eventually get to those areas,
and they leave trash in those areas because
that's what people do,
Unfortunately,
that the trash is gonna stay around a
lot longer and be a bigger environmental problem
and stay around longer for more people to
see
and disrupt their nature experience in the future.
Yeah. And if they see it, then they're
more likely to leave trash. Yeah.
And so I It's... I think that it's
a people problem, not a recreation problem, a
form of recreation problem. I would even venture
to argue that off road pick up more
trash. Probably, because we have a vessel to
keep it in until we get back home.
Yeah. When I did that in Nevada
wild horses trip, I picked up a tire.
Yeah. Yeah. Off of the... It was right
off the trail. Yeah. We're, like, 2 hours
out in sort of the middle of nowhere,
at least 2 hours down this trail. I
don't know if there's a shortcut to that
spot. And it's absolutely gorgeous out there. We're
driving along, and there is a tire,
like a 31 inch tire on the side
of the road. Yeah. On the trail. Right?
And I just... I was like, I'm gonna
pick that up. Yeah. Like, and then I
contacted the dump. I'm like, hey. I've got
a few tires. How do I get rid
of these? Mh. 15 bucks a piece. So
I picked up a piece of trash, and
now I'm gonna have to pay 15 dollars
to get rid of it. Yep. You're that,
Jimmy. It's silly. And I would be... I
wanna go... I wanna say about University falls
is it was...
And I think it's a people problem, but
it's also an education problem. What on a
percent? Because the
the peep... I would... I'm gonna go as
far as say that the people that got
that area shut down were young kids. And
kids being, like, teenagers
just sort of starting to drive barely drinking
age if bear, like, if barely able to
drink.
Because they would go down there and party.
Mh. They would have a hell of a
party. They drink that they would carry their
30 pack down. They'd have a lot of
fun. They get hurt. They would be rescues.
Mh. They would leave their trash because they
have to hike out. Mh. And it was
like a... It was a fun
like, 2 mile
1. Yeah. But it's all downhill. Yeah. It's
so
out is all uphill. Yeah. And the first
the the very end stretch when you're going
in or the very beginning stretch on your
way out is steep. Yeah. And
the probably that demographic of people
didn't
care. Yeah. About leaving the trash and the
party that they had, and we're more concerned
about just being able to hike out. Mh.
And So I think it really came down
to an educational factor for that. Plus it
is on private land, so they they have
a full right too.
Close it. And you get you go past
a no trespassing sign. Yeah. Yeah. I I
agree. I think education is the answer. I
don't think closure is nancy I don't think
mitigating access is an answer. I don't think
that...
I don't think that...
What was it the
preservation is the answer. I think that things
are always gonna evolve. I don't think that
the... Trying to preserve something so it stays
the exact same
because that's how we remembered it when we
were in high school or something. I don't
think that's the right answer for for areas
or anything.
I honestly truly do believe that education is
the answer and it's just how do you
accomplish that with so many people? Yeah. And
how do you reach all these people to
accomplish it when there's people out there that
don't wanna be educated. Yeah. Don't wanna know
the right way to do it. And don't
believe
that that is how it should be done.
Yeah. Just like,
white flowers on the Rub con. Mh. Like,
how do you stop people
from doing... Give them infrastructure? Yeah. Give them
infrastructure, Give them knowledge. Give.
Have an entire campaign against it. Mh. And
educate. Yep. So I don't know It's a
another awesome topic. Thank you, Tom for calling
in and bringing it up and chatting about
it because it's a... I think it's 1
that there's definitely arguments. There's super valid arguments
on both sides.
And, like, I agree. I... You know, if
I go hiking off somewhere. And, yeah. I
like my hikes, but
I also...
I don't know when... If I if my
hike in my experience gets disrupted.
I'm not gonna feel cost by it. I'm
just gonna be like, yeah, people suck. Alright?
And whatever. Let's let's take this experience down
try and educate people based on this experience.
Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think that
I think in regards to the trail closures,
I'm just, like, why? That's my only question.
Why close it. Like,
Why take it away. Yeah what why? Mh.
Those are my final words.
I like it. Alright. This has been a
longer
voice episode. Thank you, Tom for making that
happen. It's a lot of fun. It brings
up some really good stuff, good conversations for,
people to chat about and hopefully, it stir
up some chats with you guys and your
friends out there. Yeah. I think that's about
it. So I guess without anything else.
Keep crawling. Yeah. Who's?
The number you have called has been disconnected.