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00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,380
Humans have been burning cannabis since
our earliest relationship with it.

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00:00:10,850 --> 00:00:14,780
Cave evidence shows that early humans
would take whole cannabis plants and put

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00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:18,700
them on small fires in caves,
and essentially hot box the cave,

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00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,620
and then they would have a mystical
experience and done with the right

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00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:24,220
intentions. We still can.

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00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,820
We love smoking cannabis because the lungs
provide a speedy and efficient way to

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00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:32,180
get cannabinoids into our
blood and into our brain.

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00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,740
That's why smoking comes on faster
than any other method. Hell, yes.

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00:00:37,710 --> 00:00:41,580
There are at least two strong reasons
to consider vaporizers, though.

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00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,460
The first is that not
everyone has lungs of steel.

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00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,380
And the longer we smoke
hot plant material and tar,

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00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,020
the more impact our lungs
take over the years.

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00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:55,940
There are also folks who have other
respiratory diseases like C O P D,

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00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:58,820
where cannabis smoking
can be used as a medicine.

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00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:04,180
But smoking anything at all is
impossible for asthmatics like myself

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00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,180
and other folks with respiratory issues,

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00:01:06,750 --> 00:01:10,580
vaporizers create a fun and effective
method for us to be able to use cannabis.

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00:01:12,030 --> 00:01:16,290
The second strong reason to consider
vaporizers is how much improved the taste

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can be to be able to enjoy cannabis
flour without all the burning plant

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material. Getting in the way of the
terpene profile is a great thing.

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Many of us love the intense flavors of
dab oil without the plant as contaminant

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00:01:29,950 --> 00:01:30,430
vaping.

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00:01:30,430 --> 00:01:35,210
Flo is similar in that we are inhaling
the resin of the flour without

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taking in all the burnt plant particulate
and tar that gets in the way of true

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flavor.

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00:01:40,910 --> 00:01:45,290
You've likely heard me talk about
cannabis from Antic perspective before,

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00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,330
both here on the podcast and on the
Shaping Fire YouTube channel as well.

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On shaping fire,

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00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,490
episode 36 on cannabis and
breathing with Robert Litman,

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we discussed how best to inhale
cannabis to preserve your lungs,

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how to incorporate cannabis
into asthma and C O P D care.

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And we addressed the longtime myth
that holding your hits gets you higher.

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Spoiler is hypoxia, not t h
c that makes you feel higher.

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00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,610
Today's episode is a blend of cannabis
medicine ideas and cannabis engineering

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00:02:17,620 --> 00:02:18,453
ideas.

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00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:22,210
If you wanna learn about cannabis health
cultivation and technique efficiently

37
00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:25,170
and with good cheer, I encourage
you to subscribe to our newsletter.

38
00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:28,050
We'll send you new podcast
episodes as they come out,

39
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,570
delivered right to your inbox,

40
00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:33,210
along with commentary on a couple of the
most important news items from the week

41
00:02:33,310 --> 00:02:34,290
and videos too.

42
00:02:34,780 --> 00:02:37,970
Don't rely on social media to let you
know when a new episode is published.

43
00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,850
Sign up for the updates to make sure
you don't miss an episode. Also,

44
00:02:42,070 --> 00:02:45,290
we are giving away very cool prizes to
folks who are signed up to receive the

45
00:02:45,290 --> 00:02:46,000
newsletter.

46
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,090
There's nothing else you need to do
to win except receive that newsletter.

47
00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:53,450
So go to shaping fire.com to sign up for
the newsletter this week and be entered

48
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,370
into this month's and all future
newsletter prize drawings.

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00:02:57,870 --> 00:03:01,140
You are listening to Shaping
Fire, and I'm your host, Shago Lo.

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00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,860
My guest today is aerospace
engineer Mark Lewis.

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00:03:05,690 --> 00:03:09,540
Mark is a lifelong engineer of
systems, machines, and organizations.

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00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,780
He has been an aerospace engineer for
Hughes Space and Communications in Los Los

53
00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:16,500
Angeles, looking for new challenges.

54
00:03:16,770 --> 00:03:20,660
Mark joined the Peace Corps and went
into the jungles of Fiji to teach science

55
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,060
and help with revitalizing schools. There.

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This experience profoundly shaped
his views on the critical impact that

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00:03:27,140 --> 00:03:28,500
education plays in society,

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00:03:28,750 --> 00:03:33,580
which led him to commit 15 years to
improving K-12 education and becoming the

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00:03:33,610 --> 00:03:36,700
statewide policy director
for STEM education in Oregon.

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00:03:37,690 --> 00:03:40,180
Most recently though, Mark Lewis is again,

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00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:44,860
an engineer and inventor of novel
vaporization devices for cannabis products

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00:03:44,860 --> 00:03:46,940
through his company Pearl Labs.

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00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,340
His award-winning designs have been
honored by the 2022 Core 77 design awards

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00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,660
and selected as the 2022 best
designed vaporizer by Enigma.

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00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,600
I discovered Mark through his first in
product class vaporizer invention called

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00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,600
the Neo. The neo can be used
with any pipe or bong or rig. Um,

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00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,400
imagine lighting your cannabis
with a lighter like we always have,

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00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:09,280
turning it upside down,

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00:04:09,740 --> 00:04:14,640
but instead that lighter gives off really
intense radiant heat instead of flame,

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00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:19,240
you just put his vape later over
your flower or oil, and it vaporizes.

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00:04:19,330 --> 00:04:21,920
There isn't anything like it
on the market and I love mine,

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00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:25,440
but Mark is not here to talk about
his company at all today. You know,

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00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:30,160
I don't do company, person or product
profiles on shaping fire. We do topics,

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00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:32,040
topics that you're interested in.

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00:04:32,540 --> 00:04:36,600
So Marcus here is my science
and engineering expert
to break down the science

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00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:40,440
and engineering behind modern
vaporizers without talking about his own

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during the first set. Today we will
discuss why cannabis enthusiasts vape.

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We'll talk about the advantages and
disadvantages and the differences between

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burning cannabis, flowers and
oil versus vaporizing them.

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00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:54,370
The second set is devoted to engineering.

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00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:58,530
We will look at the three families of
vaporizer technology that make up nearly

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00:04:58,670 --> 00:05:01,730
all the vaporizers available, and
then compare and contrast them.

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00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:05,730
We will look at them twice,
once for flour and once for oil.

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00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,410
It's a big set with a lot of details.

85
00:05:08,670 --> 00:05:10,970
You will pretty much understand
everything, you know,

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00:05:10,970 --> 00:05:15,010
need to know about vapes as a toker.
After that, the third set is short,

87
00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:20,130
and we focus specifically on the boiling
point myth that conflates evaporation

88
00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:22,090
and boiling, they're not the same,

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00:05:22,430 --> 00:05:25,170
and it really impacts your
experience with vaporizers.

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Welcome to Shaping Fire Mark.

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00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:30,890
So happy to be here, Shango.
Thanks for having me on the.

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00:05:30,890 --> 00:05:34,770
Show. Excellent. All right, let's dive
right into it. You know, a lot of people,

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um, feel kind of, uh,

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motivated and nearly religious about
their vaporizers once they start using

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them, but, um, you know,

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a lot of people don't understand the
why of vaporizers yet, cuz in reality,

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vaporizers aren't used a ton in the
scene yet. People are still mostly,

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you know, lighting their cannabis
with fire. And, you know,

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humans have been burning cannabis with
fire for thousands of years to like great

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effect. So let's start by
talking about the advantages, uh,

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00:06:04,140 --> 00:06:08,180
cannabis enthusiasts are after
when they start using a vape device

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00:06:08,690 --> 00:06:12,060
instead of combustion. Will you tell
us a little bit about those advantages?

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00:06:12,730 --> 00:06:15,740
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I
think first and foremost, uh,

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there's the health aspect, right?

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00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,300
So anytime you are
actually combusting, uh,

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as the people on the West Coast
and now the East coast know, uh,

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the detrimental effects of the wildfires
on their lungs and their eyes, uh,

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you know, smoke carries a lot of
harmful products in it, the ash,

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the soot, the tars. And
so first and foremost, uh,

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the process of vaporization
removes a lot of those,

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or almost all of those detrimental, uh,

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00:06:48,260 --> 00:06:52,620
compounds from what you're
inhaling. So, uh, by and large,

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they are healthier, um,
than than smoking. Uh,

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they're also more efficacious. There's
been some research studies, uh,

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00:07:01,230 --> 00:07:04,860
about vaporizing flour,
um, versus smoking it.

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00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,940
And how much, uh, is bioavailable,

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00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:12,740
how much of the medicinals and the
active ingredients get absorbed into your

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00:07:12,740 --> 00:07:17,340
bloodstream? Um, it's, it's much
higher than than smoking. Um,

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00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,580
so there's the bioavailability, um, of
the compounds, which is also, uh, very,

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um, effective. And then I think the,

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the smell is one of the things
that you know, well, personally,

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I love the smell of, you know,
com cannabis being combusted. Uh,

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but it's a little powerful for
some, and it, and it lingers, um,

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00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:39,980
because the smells, the smoke, uh,

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00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:44,020
actually gets onto your clothes
or onto your, into your room. So,

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00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,260
so the smell of, uh, of
vapor vaporizers, um,

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00:07:48,630 --> 00:07:53,300
tends to be quite a bit
more discreet. Um, yeah.

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00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,060
And then if you're talking about
the, uh, vapor pens, the cartridges,

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00:07:58,330 --> 00:08:02,700
then those are very, very discreet and
very convenient, um, for people to use.

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00:08:03,210 --> 00:08:06,700
It's really been a
benefit to cannabis, uh,

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00:08:06,860 --> 00:08:11,580
portable vaporizers that they
became popular the same time

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00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,860
as nicotine vaporizers,

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00:08:14,330 --> 00:08:18,780
because people are so used to
people busting out nicotine

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00:08:18,990 --> 00:08:23,100
vaporizers that I can pull out
my travel vaporizer anywhere.

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00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,300
And unless they're close enough to
smell the exhale, they, you know,

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00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:30,700
people around me have no idea.
So that's been a real, you know,

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00:08:31,410 --> 00:08:35,220
advantage for all of us who,
you know, attend events or,

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00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,020
or even just walk along the street.

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00:08:37,370 --> 00:08:39,420
Yeah, that's a real boon for sure. Yeah.

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00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,940
Um, so let's, let's
talk about, um, the, uh,

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00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,500
the advantage also to people who've got
preexisting conditions like me. Sure.

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00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:49,780
You know, I like, like, you know,
people who listen to this show, um,

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00:08:49,830 --> 00:08:53,020
often know that, that I
have very severe asthma,

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00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,060
and because I have a respiratory,
um, condition, I have to be, uh,

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00:08:58,060 --> 00:09:02,020
gentle on my lungs. And, you know,
I still smoke joints, but like I I,

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00:09:02,300 --> 00:09:06,180
I know after I've smoked a joint. Right?
Um, yeah, for sure. And, and like,

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00:09:06,180 --> 00:09:09,100
you know, um, when, when you go,
when I go to events like, you know,

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00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:10,980
Emerald Cup or something where, you know,

149
00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:15,980
you gotta puff tough the whole weekend,
um, you know, I really feel that,

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00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,540
um, for several days
afterwards and, and for,

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00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,900
for many people with asthma or C O P D,

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00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,660
if we want to inhale our cannabis, um,

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00:09:26,910 --> 00:09:31,300
vaporizers are a, uh,
fantastic option, um,

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00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:34,700
because it's, uh, so
less harsh on our lungs.

155
00:09:35,410 --> 00:09:36,820
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

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00:09:36,820 --> 00:09:41,420
It's missing all those ash particles that
that lodge into your, your lungs. Um,

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00:09:41,890 --> 00:09:45,660
yeah. And, and certainly the heavier
tars and oils are also removed from it.

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00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:48,460
So it's, it's much, much
easier on, on your lungs. You.

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00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:50,900
Know, when pe when people
talk about like the, the,

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00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,860
the unhealthy aspects of smoking,
almost everybody just goes to cancer.

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00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:59,980
Right. But it's, it's interesting to
hear you delineate that, you know, the,

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00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,420
the, the, the bits of smoke and
the particles in the smoke and, um,

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00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,380
the tars and all of those things
on their own have their own kind of

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00:10:09,650 --> 00:10:12,700
impacts, even if they don't
eventually lead to cancer.

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00:10:13,850 --> 00:10:18,740
Yeah, for sure. And and I
try to really avoid, um,

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00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,940
you know, uh, criticizing
people who, who smoke. Cause I,

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00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:25,780
I don't think there should
be any sort of judgment,

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00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,820
and there's so much social stigma around
smoking these days that I don't think

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00:10:29,820 --> 00:10:34,220
that's the reason why not to smoke.
I think it's really, you know,

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00:10:34,220 --> 00:10:38,820
from a health and taste and, and the
bioavailability for me, you know, uh,

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00:10:39,170 --> 00:10:42,780
it's, uh, it's a much more
complex experience than smoking.

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00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:46,620
Yeah. And, and, and we'll get to it
later, but it's also a different high too,

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00:10:46,620 --> 00:10:47,260
so It is.

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00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:48,100
Completely, yeah.

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00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,180
Um, so, but we also need to be fair,
right? Because even though vapes still,

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00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,460
um, even though vapes are so
improved for people's lungs, um,

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00:10:58,530 --> 00:11:02,620
it's not without it's challenges,
right? Um, it's still heated air.

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00:11:02,670 --> 00:11:05,660
We're still in, he we're still
inhaling super heated air.

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00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:12,140
Yeah. By the time, um, it <laugh>
well, compared to smoke, uh,

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00:11:12,190 --> 00:11:16,500
which, you know, you can, can reach
temperatures, you're inhaling well,

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00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:20,300
right at the embers, you're,
you're talking, you know,
over a thousand degrees,

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00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,860
uh, at the ember. But, uh, you know,
if you're smoking a joint, you're,

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00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:29,700
you're looking at five, 600 degrees,
uh, in your mouth. And with vaporizers,

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00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,820
you're, you're well down into,
you know, the hundreds, uh,

185
00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:39,540
you know, into the low hundreds, you
know, 180, 200 degrees at the most,

186
00:11:39,780 --> 00:11:41,940
I would think by the time
it enters your mouth.

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00:11:41,980 --> 00:11:46,500
I have not done put a thermocouple in
my mouth to measure that paper, but, uh,

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00:11:46,930 --> 00:11:50,500
yeah, it's, I don't
experience that, that, uh,

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00:11:50,530 --> 00:11:52,100
lung irritation from heat.

190
00:11:52,610 --> 00:11:55,780
Alright, so then, so then maybe
I'm misattributing, you know, some,

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00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:59,580
like I talk about vaporizers a lot
with just like regular heads, right?

192
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,500
Not usually with scientists like
you and we, so, you know, it's,

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00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:06,140
it's not uncommon for somebody
to say, oh my gosh, I've been,

194
00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:11,100
I've been hitting my vape so much
that my lungs feel crispy. All right.

195
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,500
So what, do you have any
suggestion on what, uh,

196
00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:20,300
what is the attribute of a vaporizer
that might make my lungs feel

197
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,540
crispy? Especially if it's a
flour vape, like, you know,

198
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:24,940
my old school packs or something?

199
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:30,240
Yeah. To make your lungs feel
crispy, you're, well, uh,

200
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,800
we're gonna get into I
think some of the, the,

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00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:37,960
the things that are happening
at a, at a micro level, but, um,

202
00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:42,720
if you're really toasting your herbs
strongly, you probably are, um,

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00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:44,160
uh,

204
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,680
changing the nature of the terpenes
and the cannabinoids into other,

205
00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:52,640
um, thicker oils, um, that can, uh,

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00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:56,600
reside then in your lungs and
have that heavy feel to it.

207
00:12:56,980 --> 00:13:01,560
And then certainly with cartridge
based, um, vaporizers, uh,

208
00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:06,480
the carrier oils make a big
difference. And, uh, we think we know,

209
00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:10,560
uh, the background around the Ali
Skara a couple of years ago, uh,

210
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,360
with the vitamin e acetate
mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um,

211
00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:18,560
and that's exactly what was happening,
right? Is is the carrier oils were,

212
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:20,520
were impacting your lung experience.

213
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,120
I think it's also fair, uh,

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00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,800
if we're gonna be talking about
the downsides of vaping generally,

215
00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:28,800
to talk about what a, uh, you know,

216
00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:34,120
plastic battery waste
and trash from packaging

217
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,360
nightmare cartridges are <laugh>. Oh,
sure. Um, it's, it's such a drag and,

218
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,400
you know, um, for years I, I mean I,

219
00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:43,080
I'm not sure if cartridges
have solved this yet,

220
00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:47,120
but for years I would have a
little Ziploc with, you know,

221
00:13:47,230 --> 00:13:52,200
partially finished vape
cartridges that just had all of

222
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,760
this waste in there and I wasn't even
gonna be able to get the oil out anymore.

223
00:13:56,060 --> 00:13:58,480
And it just seemed so
wasteful, like, like dub tubes.

224
00:13:59,010 --> 00:14:00,360
Right? Yeah, for sure.

225
00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:04,880
Yeah. Um, uh, and then, uh,

226
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,400
I guess we also have to be
careful about, um, you know,

227
00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:13,240
the terpenes for either oil vapes or for,

228
00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:17,000
um, you know, even, I guess
that would be the only kind,

229
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,760
cause people don't really add terps
to flour, I hope. But, um, you know,

230
00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:24,560
we don't really, there really aren't
a lot of studies on what it is,

231
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:25,640
what it means to,

232
00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:30,240
to vape the amount of
terpenes that are common

233
00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:33,840
in an oil and, um, you know,

234
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,040
terpenes are by their very
nature caustic and it'll, it, it,

235
00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:42,920
we won't know until it's too late if
it's actually unhealthy to do that.

236
00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:46,080
And, um, I I'm sure you've
come across that a lot as,

237
00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:47,840
as you have done your research.

238
00:14:49,070 --> 00:14:53,380
Yeah. Uh, well, I never recommend
that people add pure terpenes,

239
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,500
uh, to, um, anything that they're
smoking or, or vaporizing,

240
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,140
uh, because they are, uh, solvents
<laugh>, right? So if you think about,

241
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,180
uh, you know, limine, um,
it's, it's a wonderful solvent.

242
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,780
It, it's, uh, helps clean your
hands, it can get stickers off,

243
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,100
it can do all sorts of wonderful
things. Um, but when you're,

244
00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:22,140
when you experience, uh, terpenes
and, and we've, you know,

245
00:15:22,450 --> 00:15:27,060
grew, you grow up smelling flowers
right? Your entire life, uh,

246
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,580
and the history of humanity, we've
had a very rich interaction with,

247
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:36,340
with terpenes in a very beneficial
way. So in very small amounts, um,

248
00:15:36,540 --> 00:15:41,140
terpenes are, are phenomenal,
right? So, um, keeping,

249
00:15:41,610 --> 00:15:44,740
keeping as close to nature as
possible is, is kind of my rule.

250
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:49,220
Right on. So, so let's talk
about that, right, because, um,

251
00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:52,740
it's interesting because if we we're
talking about this idea of keeping it as

252
00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:57,140
close to nature and, you
know, if, if we humans are,

253
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,500
you know, a, a thing of nature,

254
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,260
and we are a part of nature and
we are not excluded from nature,

255
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,660
the way that we have been using
this natural plant with cannabis for

256
00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:13,460
thousands of years have been, you know,
by fire, you know, going into the,

257
00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:15,500
you know, pulling out the plant and,

258
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:19,940
and going into the cave and putting it
on the fire and filling up the cave with

259
00:16:20,030 --> 00:16:23,860
smoke and, and, you know, then,
then learning to, you know,

260
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:27,380
craft little pipes when we could
control the fire better. And,

261
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,100
and then of course, you know,
eventually developing hash. So we're,

262
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,780
so we're able to store it better
and right, and, and not burn and,

263
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,300
and combust as much of the
plant material. Um, and, and,

264
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,820
you know, so many of us love
that profound good taste of,

265
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,740
of combusting, you know,

266
00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:51,460
quality herb that has been
grown and cured, um, properly.

267
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:52,720
And,

268
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,700
and then yet at the same time as
we start to use vaporizers now

269
00:16:57,780 --> 00:17:02,020
I am enjoying the same
plant in an entirely

270
00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:04,740
different way. Um,

271
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,580
that's giving me a different
experience of the terpenes

272
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,580
and, and, we'll, we'll
talk more about the, the,

273
00:17:11,580 --> 00:17:15,460
the science aspects of it later
on. Um, but, but it's, it's,

274
00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:18,340
it's an entirely different taste
where there's, there's almost a,

275
00:17:18,420 --> 00:17:22,660
a needed transition period when
somebody goes from flour to vaporizing

276
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:27,660
because it is so different. Would
you describe the difference, um,

277
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,260
in, in taste experience, I guess,

278
00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:33,980
between combusting and
vaporizing the same flour?

279
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,900
Wow, <laugh>, that's not
hard. Uh, um, well, I,

280
00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:45,660
I would concur. I, uh, first and
foremost with, uh, the experience of,

281
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,220
and rituals of, uh,
consuming a nice joint or,

282
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,620
or your pipe or your
bong, I think we have, uh,

283
00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:57,540
learned to, um,

284
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,260
manage our experiences with those
devices and with combusting by,

285
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,980
um, you know, the, we,

286
00:18:05,980 --> 00:18:09,980
we get a certain feedback that helps us
con, you know, manage our experience.

287
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,620
And when you're shifting over to,
for example, flower vaporization,

288
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,100
um, the feedback that you're
getting is, is much, much different.

289
00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:24,140
Your lungs are not experiencing
that in intense hypoxia, you know,

290
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,900
the, the, uh, you know,
constriction and the lack of oxygen.

291
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,740
Um, instead you're taking
a deep breath, um, of,

292
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,540
of vapor that is rich in, uh,

293
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,500
the cannabinoids as well as
the terpenoids. And it's, it's,

294
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,500
it feels gentler, but that can
be deceptive as well because,

295
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,780
uh, as I mentioned earlier, it can
get you higher. So you have to,

296
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,220
you have to learn to manage your feedback
differently with vaporizers than you

297
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:58,500
do with, uh, with our
traditional modes of consumption.

298
00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:02,900
I, I like that, uh, use of
the word feedback because, uh,

299
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,940
I would say the number one complaint
that I've heard from people who are just

300
00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:07,980
starting, um, uh,

301
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:12,660
using non cartridge vaporizers
is that like, did I,

302
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:15,340
did I get a hit? You
know? Right. Because the,

303
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,980
the hits with a low temp, um,

304
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:25,100
you know, handheld vaporizer, I mean,
heck, even some of the desktop ones, uh,

305
00:19:25,570 --> 00:19:27,260
it's, it, it feels,

306
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,340
the inhale feels so much thinner. Um, and,

307
00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:35,900
and it's weird because so many
people who are developing vaporizers,

308
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,700
and then because we, we,
people keep asking for 'em,

309
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,660
we want vaporizers that will
give us clouds. Right, right.

310
00:19:41,660 --> 00:19:42,160
Right.

311
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,820
And like in like, clouds are
an aesthetic experience, uh,

312
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,980
of, of both feeling a good hit, like,
like feedback you were talking about,

313
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,820
and also the satisfaction of exhaling
and seeing this wall cloud, right.

314
00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:59,220
<laugh>, which, which traditionally is,

315
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,500
is part of the satisfaction from
taking a bong rip. Right. Totally. Um,

316
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,740
so would you talk a little
bit about why, um, you know,

317
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,620
why that hit is, is thinner? And I,

318
00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:12,860
I guess you've kind of already
addressed that because there's, there's,

319
00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:15,740
there's not as much particular in there.

320
00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:18,980
I guess I would like to you
to talk to more, like, um, uh,

321
00:20:20,190 --> 00:20:23,650
are we missing anything from
that thinner feeling hit?

322
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:30,420
I don't think so. From my
perspective, I think, um,

323
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,300
you, again, when,

324
00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:36,900
when you have smoke and it has the ash
and particulates and stuff in there,

325
00:20:36,930 --> 00:20:41,860
your lungs constrict. And so
you get that intensity, um,

326
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,260
a a feeling of, of in, of, uh,

327
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:48,820
being a little more intense
because you're <laugh> your,

328
00:20:48,970 --> 00:20:53,900
your lungs are responding to,
uh, these things that, you know,

329
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,740
are contaminants, um,
from its perspective. Uh,

330
00:20:57,740 --> 00:21:02,220
whereas when you're vaporizing
flour, uh, then your lungs are,

331
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,300
are not feeling that, uh,
intensity of invasion, you're,

332
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,140
you're getting things that it recognizes
and they're binding to the oli

333
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,740
and then being moved into your,
uh, into your bloodstream. And so,

334
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,020
um, so that's one aspect
of it to the clouds.

335
00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:24,860
I think that is a learned
feedback that we, um, are judging,

336
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,260
uh, our experience based on these
clouds. But at the same time, your,

337
00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:33,100
your lungs can only absorb
so many compounds at a time.

338
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,820
So anything that you're
exhaling, uh, with a vaporizer,

339
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,300
you're exhaling those active ingredients.

340
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,420
If you're seeing a cloud that's kind
of wasted byproduct. Yeah. Because you,

341
00:21:44,810 --> 00:21:48,740
your lungs haven't taken them up and,
and delivered them to your bloodstream.

342
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,380
So that's, that's another way of
thinking about it. And at the same time,

343
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:56,620
there's always been a, a bit of theater
in, in cannabis, right. <laugh>.

344
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,540
And so we enjoy that as
part of the social aspect.

345
00:21:59,890 --> 00:22:04,580
Yeah, that's, that's really
true. Um, alright, so, uh, if,

346
00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:08,420
alright, I've got two sides of this coin,

347
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,740
and so I'm gonna give you the coin and
then you can approach it however you

348
00:22:11,740 --> 00:22:15,620
want. All right. On, on, on one
side of the coin, um, you know,

349
00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:19,860
we're taking these, uh, these,
these thinner hits, I'll say.

350
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,500
Um, and, and you know,

351
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:27,420
you say sometimes they, they'll
actually get as higher, right?

352
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,300
But then on the other side
of that coin are many people,

353
00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:32,460
when they first start vaping,

354
00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:36,900
they feel like one hit is
not as satisfying for them
and they don't get as high.

355
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,340
And so they're all like, well, you
know, I need to take like, you know,

356
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,980
two hits, uh, or three hits of my,

357
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,180
my flower vaporizer to
get the same feedback

358
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,700
as I would from my bong. Um, yeah.

359
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,940
But then also some days you
just go and you have, you know,

360
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,540
one hit of the vaporizer and
you've got this like really like

361
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,180
speedy, bright sativa kind of high
even potentially from, you know,

362
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,300
um, a non equatorial plan, right? That
something that that's more merc rich. So,

363
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,700
so what, what I'd like you to kind
of just speak to is this idea of,

364
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,540
of the hits being thinner, and
so we have to take more of 'em.

365
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:24,820
And yet the misnomer in that that like,
we actually can get, get wicked high,

366
00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:28,220
wicked fast from vaporizers
too. Like, like how,

367
00:23:28,410 --> 00:23:31,940
like as somebody who studies
the technology and the, and,

368
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,220
and the user experience, how do
you kind of resolve those <laugh>?

369
00:23:36,220 --> 00:23:37,620
Because they're all true, right?

370
00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:40,940
<Laugh>? Yeah. They're all,
they're all true. Uh, yeah.

371
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,820
So for the same, let's,
let's put some boundaries on,

372
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,900
on where we go with this. Fair
enough. That sounds good. Um,

373
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,620
so for the same amount of herb, um, uh,

374
00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:58,500
I will claim, and I think research
backs me up on this, that, uh,

375
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:02,780
you will get higher if you completely
vaporize the same amount of herb,

376
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,700
um, as smoking, but it's
over, as you mentioned,

377
00:24:09,010 --> 00:24:13,260
over far more hits, I guess, um,

378
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:15,700
maybe you, you know,
double or triple the hits.

379
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,860
So that's one aspect of it. Um, yeah.

380
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,380
And yet paradoxically, it's,
it's more effective. So, uh,

381
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,140
the where I'm actually going is
when you first load a fresh bowl,

382
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,740
um, with a vaporizer, uh, you, we
haven't talked about decarb it yet,

383
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,460
and decarboxylation doesn't take place
immediately like it does with fire.

384
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,180
And so your early poles, um,

385
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,620
are going to evaporate
some of the T H C A without

386
00:24:48,620 --> 00:24:53,300
necessarily converting it, um,
to thc. Interesting. And so,

387
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:54,340
yes,

388
00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:59,180
your first couple of poles
are probably going to feel

389
00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:04,300
a little thinner and maybe not affect
you, but that third, fourth, fifth,

390
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:07,740
sixth are going to be fully decarb and,

391
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,460
and a lot more intense.

392
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,060
You know, that's so obvious. But I
have never thought of that before. Huh.

393
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,740
That's really interesting. So, so
I hear that two different ways.

394
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:20,633
Number one,

395
00:25:20,980 --> 00:25:25,820
I like it because if my first hits
are going to be offering me more T

396
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:30,180
H C A C B, G A C B D A,
right? Then my latter hits,

397
00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:34,980
that means I'm gonna get all these
acid forms of the plant which are

398
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:36,580
healthy and good for me. Yep.

399
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,460
But the longer it stays in the
vaporization chamber, the heating chamber,

400
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,860
the the cannabinoids will be
changing to the non-acid versions.

401
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,140
And so I'm getting a,

402
00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:53,820
perhaps a wider array of
that. And, and for, for,

403
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,620
and for the listeners who are not, um,
familiar with decarb decarboxylation,

404
00:25:59,160 --> 00:25:59,530
um,

405
00:25:59,530 --> 00:26:04,380
essentially what you need to
do to make THC and intoxicants

406
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,180
is that you have to heat it to
a certain point that change,

407
00:26:07,180 --> 00:26:10,540
it changes it from an acid to a
non-acid. And when, and you know,

408
00:26:10,540 --> 00:26:14,580
when we normally smoke
bowls or, um, smoke joints,

409
00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:18,740
there's so much fire in, in that
joint that it happens instantly.

410
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,060
But as Mark was talking
about earlier, we're not,

411
00:26:22,060 --> 00:26:24,500
we're not burning at a thousand degrees,

412
00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:26,700
we're talking about more
like a couple hundred.

413
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,060
And so that process doesn't
happen instantly. Um, right.

414
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,340
So then the second thing I'm thinking,

415
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:37,900
not only am I happy about getting all
these acid forms of the cannabinoids on

416
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:40,860
the flip side, if I am dollar conscious,

417
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,740
that's gonna really annoy the hell out
of me because I could see that as wasting

418
00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:50,740
cannabinoids. Because if I'm, if I'm
money conscious and I'm trying to get,

419
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,700
you know, the most bang for
my buck, I want to get high,

420
00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:58,340
I actually will be disappointed
that I'm smoking T H C

421
00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:03,940
A, um, like the first hit or two. So it
really <laugh> it really is different,

422
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,420
um, consumer to consumer.

423
00:27:06,650 --> 00:27:10,900
Yeah. I think, um, I, I have
never experienced disappointment,

424
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,060
uh, with flower vaporization. I'll just
say Shang, go <laugh>. Um, and, uh,

425
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,580
you through vaporization, and again,

426
00:27:19,810 --> 00:27:23,660
when we get into the mechanics of,
of different kinds of modes of,

427
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,700
of vaporization, um, you know, we can
see how they'll behave differently.

428
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:33,980
But, uh, often you, unlike with fire, um,

429
00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:36,500
when you're combusting, you've
got a lot of sidestream,

430
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:41,300
you've got a lot of wastage,
and with many vaporizers, um,

431
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:44,820
certainly the, the more
reputable ones, uh,

432
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,660
you are not heat actually heating the
cannabis when you're not inhaling.

433
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,900
And so, uh, the, your bowl
goes a lot, lot longer. Um,

434
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:57,180
and from an efficiency standpoint,

435
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,460
you're the over the overall amount
of product that you are going to be

436
00:28:02,460 --> 00:28:07,380
purchasing in a month to, uh, manage
your health and wellbeing, um,

437
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,060
is likely to drop significantly.

438
00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:16,100
I see. So it's a, it's a much more, uh,
complex algorithm than I was giving, uh,

439
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:20,940
credit to it. Also, as far as like
the wastage goes, um, it's, it's,

440
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:22,490
uh,

441
00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:27,140
it's always noticed how much
smaller the heating compartments are

442
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:28,860
on, uh,

443
00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:33,700
vaporizers as they are like from
your hand blown glass slide. True.

444
00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:36,900
That can take, you know, a thumb
sized gram nug in it, right?

445
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,500
And then you go over to your vape and
it's asking you to take like, you know,

446
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,100
one 10th 10th of that. Yeah.
One 10th of that and then,

447
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:49,020
and then grind it and then put it in
there. It, it, it usually looks like a, a,

448
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,460
a paucity is, I think that's
the right use of that word.

449
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,340
It looks like such a small amount of
weed. Um, but then, and then, but then,

450
00:28:55,340 --> 00:28:58,980
you know, still gets you high. And so
it's, it's confusing. It's less weed,

451
00:28:58,980 --> 00:28:59,580
it gets you high,

452
00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:03,180
but you need to take more hits and
then you're getting a lot more T H C A,

453
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,500
but over time you're, you're wasting
less. So it's actually budgetary smart.

454
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,980
Yes. <laugh>. Damn. I think you nailed it.

455
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:15,300
<Laugh>. Oh man. Alright.

456
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,580
So, um, alright, so let,
let's, let's wrap this up.

457
00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:22,380
So I wanted to start this first set
with, um, you know, conversations about,

458
00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:26,060
you know, the why of it kind of
generally, but, um, no doubt,

459
00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:29,540
I know I have invited an
engineer here. So, um,

460
00:29:29,540 --> 00:29:32,860
we're gonna go and take a commercial
break and then when we come back we're

461
00:29:32,860 --> 00:29:37,500
gonna, uh, get into a more
serious discussion about,
uh, the engineering behind,

462
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,420
um, the popular varieties of, of
vapes and go through some, uh,

463
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:46,500
oil vaping solutions and flower vaping
solutions and really get into the

464
00:29:46,620 --> 00:29:48,140
mechanics of it. So, uh,

465
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:51,820
you are listening to Shaping Fire and
my guest today is aerospace engineer

466
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Mark Lewis. And, you know,

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Welcome back. You are listening to
Shaping Fire. I am your host, Shang Golos,

560
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,020
and my guest today is
aerospace engineer Mark Lewis.

561
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,460
So during the first set we
talked about why we vape, uh,

562
00:35:54,460 --> 00:35:59,100
what the in cannabis enthusiast
experience is, and, uh, you know,

563
00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:01,620
some of the, some of the challenges
and work throughs for those.

564
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,420
But we're gonna get into more of the nitty
gritty of the engineering behind, um,

565
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,740
uh, both flour and oil vaporizers now. Um,

566
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:14,700
both so that you can, you know,
just be a little deeper on this,

567
00:36:14,770 --> 00:36:17,460
this very important aspect of
the, you know, cannabis culture.

568
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,060
But also this should help provide
a, a bit of a, uh, you know,

569
00:36:22,060 --> 00:36:26,500
a shopping guide for you as you, um,
you know, as, as you learn about the,

570
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:28,180
the different types of vaporizers. And,

571
00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:31,700
and you can figure out what what
you might be interested in, uh,

572
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:35,300
should you decide to pick one
up. So Mark, you know, you know,

573
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:39,740
there's a lot of different approaches
designing vaporizers and there are so many

574
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:43,180
coming out on the market
all the time now. Um, and,

575
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:46,540
and we're gonna talk about
flower vapes and first,

576
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,980
and then vaping oils second because,

577
00:36:49,290 --> 00:36:52,180
because they really are
like different things. So,

578
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,100
so let's talk about flower vapes. So like,

579
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:00,060
do flower vapes fall neatly into a few
different categories so that we can

580
00:37:00,060 --> 00:37:01,620
kind of bunch 'em up and talk about them?

581
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,060
Or is there so much for a variability
model to model that we have to like,

582
00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:07,700
take 'em one by one, God help us.

583
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,760
<Laugh>. Well, not all vaporizers are
created equal for sure. Shang, go. Um,

584
00:37:14,140 --> 00:37:18,720
and when it comes to flower vaporizers,
there are two primary categories.

585
00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:19,500
Uh,

586
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:24,480
and those are convection based vaporizers
and conduction VA based vaporizers.

587
00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:25,600
Now, uh,

588
00:37:25,820 --> 00:37:30,320
anyone who's stood around a campfire has
also experienced radiant heat before,

589
00:37:30,420 --> 00:37:34,840
and that's, you know, heat transfer
at a distance, if you will. And,

590
00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:40,360
um, some vaporizers, uh, might
include that. And that is certainly a,

591
00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:45,400
an effect that, uh, impacts sort
of the, the internal working of,

592
00:37:45,740 --> 00:37:50,600
of, uh, of a vaporizer.
To summarize, you know,

593
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,480
just briefly the differentiation
between the two modes, um, conduction.

594
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,000
And honestly, I'm gonna encourage you
to not be necessarily that brief. Right?

595
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:01,400
Okay. Like, like we don't necessarily
need to do a dissertation,

596
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,520
but this conduction versus
conve convection thing that
I think that you're about

597
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,400
to wade into, like this is key,
right? So Right, right. So, so,

598
00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:14,520
so take your time so that we can all
pick up on this cuz just the fact that

599
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,680
conduction and convection are so similar
immediately confuses people right out

600
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,520
of the gates. And so, so like, so like
take your time because I think this is,

601
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,520
this is a chunky bit.

602
00:38:24,270 --> 00:38:27,720
Sure, sure. Okay. Well, you know,

603
00:38:27,780 --> 00:38:32,480
in short conduction is a heat
transfer through touch, right?

604
00:38:32,780 --> 00:38:37,020
So if you are a, a conduction
based vaporizer has an oven,

605
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,100
it has a chamber, uh, either
made of metal or ceramic,

606
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,580
and you place your herb in,

607
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,580
in that and the vaporizer
heats up that oven.

608
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:51,220
Um, and so your herb is
being heated through the,

609
00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:55,420
from the walls of that little
oven of that chamber. Um,

610
00:38:55,420 --> 00:38:59,260
and that's conduction. So it's
being heated largely by touch.

611
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:00,820
Uh,

612
00:39:00,820 --> 00:39:05,700
a convection based vaporizer is sort of
like a convection oven or an air fryer.

613
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,900
You're heating up the air
and then that is being, uh,

614
00:39:11,260 --> 00:39:15,660
transported or pulled or
pushed through your herb. Um,

615
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,300
and that hot air then extracts, uh,

616
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,460
or evaporates the, uh, various compounds.

617
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,060
So conduction is actually your
flower touching the heating

618
00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:33,620
piece and convection
is somewhere up the up

619
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,060
the chamber, the, the,

620
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:40,900
the air is being heated and then you're
sucking that hot heat towards the flower

621
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,660
and the heat is touching the flower
instead of the metal or the thic.

622
00:39:45,870 --> 00:39:47,660
Right? The air is flowing through,

623
00:39:47,660 --> 00:39:51,780
the hot air is flowing through and
evaporating, um, the compounds,

624
00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:52,820
the volatile compounds.

625
00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:57,820
Okay. And then the third kind
was radiant where, um, there is,

626
00:39:57,820 --> 00:40:01,100
there is, uh, some kind of
device that's, that's, uh,

627
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,580
itself just hot and
you're, I'm putting it in,

628
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,900
in general proximity, but it's not, it's,

629
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:11,620
it's neither touching
the flower nor far away.

630
00:40:12,110 --> 00:40:12,850
Right. Right.

631
00:40:12,850 --> 00:40:14,020
Okay. Um,

632
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,500
so can you give us a little
bit of explanation on the

633
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:23,460
conduction convection
timeline? Because, you know,

634
00:40:24,620 --> 00:40:28,900
I know that generally speaking people
consider one better than the other. But,

635
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:33,300
but I would like you to just
kind of, um, explain the, the,

636
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:38,100
the beginning of vaporizers
design, what was first and then,

637
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:40,420
and then how they've
kind of evolved and, and,

638
00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:43,580
and while not everybody likes
the same kind of vaporizers,

639
00:40:43,810 --> 00:40:47,380
kind of where the people are
responding in the market.

640
00:40:49,010 --> 00:40:53,380
Yeah. Uh, I think the earliest
vaporizers that I'm aware of are,

641
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,820
are certainly, um, you know, they
played around in the seventies with,

642
00:40:57,820 --> 00:41:01,660
with heat guns, um, and, uh, you know,

643
00:41:01,690 --> 00:41:04,820
just delivering the hot air, uh,

644
00:41:05,010 --> 00:41:09,020
that evolved to some of the
whip based, um, vaporizers,

645
00:41:09,020 --> 00:41:12,460
like the Vapor Brothers,
the early boxes with, uh, I.

646
00:41:12,460 --> 00:41:14,820
Still have my vapor robbers whip box man.

647
00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:19,020
<Laugh>. Yeah. And, uh, you know,
Bert there, he's, hes Wizard,

648
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:23,140
he's one of the grandfathers of, of,
uh, vaporizers. He's a really good guy,

649
00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:27,900
understands all of this. Um, those
were, were largely convection based,

650
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,380
um, vaporizers,

651
00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:33,460
so they were heating the air and it
was flowing through your herb. Um,

652
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,620
now when it started to
move to more portable, uh,

653
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:43,300
kind of devices, it's a lot
easier to manufacture in small,

654
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,900
um, you know, compact designs, uh,

655
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,900
to engineer a conduction
based vaporizer. Um,

656
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,100
so to heat up the oven, throw
your herb in that oven, um,

657
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:59,780
something on the market, a a cup,
some of the ones like the packs,

658
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,180
um, is, is largely a
conduction based vaporizer.

659
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,100
And so how we want,

660
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:10,620
how will picture that is that all of
these various vaporizers where it's got

661
00:42:10,620 --> 00:42:15,460
some kind of little lid and, uh, you
put your flower in there and it's,

662
00:42:15,460 --> 00:42:19,180
it's actually, you know,
touching it against, um,

663
00:42:19,350 --> 00:42:23,900
steel or ceramic and then you're
putting the, the top back on, um,

664
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:27,540
they all kind of fall in the same category
no matter what they look like. Uh.

665
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:30,300
There's a sizable portion, um,

666
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,340
but there's others on the market
that are hybrids and, and do,

667
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,140
uh, a lot of the heating
of the air, uh, you know,

668
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:44,100
the crafty and mighty by stores and
beckel. Um, they will, you know,

669
00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:49,140
heat the air, uh, but there's also a
conduction component to their design.

670
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,660
So some of the heat, you know,

671
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:56,060
is transmitted up to the walls of
the chamber as well. So they're, uh,

672
00:42:56,060 --> 00:43:00,900
both introducing hot air as well
as conduction from the sides. Um,

673
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,820
and, uh, trying to then get an even, uh,

674
00:43:05,020 --> 00:43:06,820
vaporization of all the products.

675
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,740
That's a good point for me to
not be over generalizing and,

676
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,340
and make it look like they're
the, these are really such, um,

677
00:43:17,210 --> 00:43:21,060
separated uh, solutions. Because,
because you're right. You know,

678
00:43:21,060 --> 00:43:25,260
like everybody is in, is
inventing and trying to find the,

679
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,860
the technology blend that works
best for their product. And, and,

680
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,220
and so anybody who's gonna buy one,

681
00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:37,220
make sure you understand the one
that you wanna get directly and not,

682
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,300
you know, just something very
general that you, you know,

683
00:43:40,330 --> 00:43:42,500
that you read generally
about conduction or whatever.

684
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:44,780
Right? Right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

685
00:43:45,490 --> 00:43:47,260
Alright, I interrupted
you. Please continue.

686
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:52,460
Um, well, I was gonna say just to,
to highlight some of the differences.

687
00:43:52,730 --> 00:43:56,540
When you actually have, uh, a hot, um,

688
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,940
hot material touching your herb,
uh, you have a danger of burning it,

689
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:02,650
right?

690
00:44:02,650 --> 00:44:07,300
Because they have to compensate
by delivering a lot more thermal

691
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:12,260
energy through the walls in
order to have it than, um,

692
00:44:12,330 --> 00:44:15,700
cook, if you will, the herb that's
in the middle of the chamber.

693
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,780
So you have a much higher
likelihood of over roasting, um,

694
00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:24,820
your herb and getting that kind
of burnt popcorn taste that, uh,

695
00:44:24,820 --> 00:44:25,820
some people complain about.

696
00:44:26,020 --> 00:44:27,420
I do not care for the toasty.

697
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,500
No, no, I'm a light roast kind of
guy. Light roast. There you go.

698
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,820
Uh, so, so you, so if, if you're
going to get, um, you know,

699
00:44:36,970 --> 00:44:41,700
more of an opportunity of the
toastiness with conduction, um,

700
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:42,560
uh,

701
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,540
you would not get that with
convection because the heated air

702
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,020
is coming in contact with your,

703
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,580
the entirety of your flower
mass at the same time, right?

704
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,780
Uh, correct. Um, well, it's,
it's impacting the, the,

705
00:44:59,060 --> 00:45:03,540
wherever the inlet side is, it's getting
a blast of the heated air, you know,

706
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:06,860
first that that particular, uh,

707
00:45:06,860 --> 00:45:10,180
part of the herb is going to get
the heat blast first. Mm-hmm.

708
00:45:10,180 --> 00:45:14,580
But then it's going to be pulled
through, uh, your herb. Now, uh,

709
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,460
in a convection based vaporizer,

710
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,260
you can also pump up the power
so much that, uh, you do,

711
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:22,860
you know, over roast it as well.

712
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,220
So if you're up at combustion
level temperatures for that air,

713
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,260
it will certainly combust on you,

714
00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:31,790
but most vaporizers try to avoid that.

715
00:45:32,010 --> 00:45:32,843
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, well, you,

716
00:45:32,850 --> 00:45:35,790
you would really need to have your
temp like really cranked up at that.

717
00:45:35,790 --> 00:45:37,670
Point. You would've to have
it cranked up. Yeah. Yeah.

718
00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:41,270
All right. So let's go back to your
timeline that you were giving us. Um,

719
00:45:41,570 --> 00:45:45,350
you know, you gave, you talked to us about
the box vapes and then the, you know,

720
00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:50,230
the first I'll say real
breakthrough, um, you know,

721
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:54,110
to the consumer market vape
of the packs. Um, and then,

722
00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:57,230
and then things continue on to
conventions. So please, please pick it up.

723
00:45:58,410 --> 00:45:59,070
Uh, yeah,

724
00:45:59,070 --> 00:46:02,390
well I think a lot of the things that
you're seeing on the market now are

725
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:06,990
variations, uh, of a very
similar approach. Um, uh,

726
00:46:07,070 --> 00:46:11,070
a lot of vaporizers are trying to, um,

727
00:46:11,580 --> 00:46:16,350
portray flexibility, uh, through
incorporation of different, uh, apps,

728
00:46:17,210 --> 00:46:21,990
um, you know, so that you can control
the, the temperature settings. Uh, and,

729
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:24,350
and we can talk about, you know, <laugh>,

730
00:46:24,780 --> 00:46:29,390
whether or not they can actually do
that or not. Um, most vaporizers, uh,

731
00:46:29,410 --> 00:46:33,310
are able to, you can set
a particular setting, um,

732
00:46:33,310 --> 00:46:37,350
and vary those with an app or directly
through the button control. Um, let's.

733
00:46:37,350 --> 00:46:38,790
Go ahead and have that conversation now.

734
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:42,070
Cause I was gonna ask you that in two
questions anyway. You know, these,

735
00:46:42,070 --> 00:46:43,430
these temp controls, and I,

736
00:46:43,590 --> 00:46:46,910
I know we're kind of like talking
about the entirety of the market,

737
00:46:47,330 --> 00:46:50,030
so that's not really fair.
But generally speaking,

738
00:46:50,410 --> 00:46:54,710
are these temp controls to be
believed because, um, you know,

739
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:58,830
un unless I'm paying a good penny,
you know, for a vape and, you know,

740
00:46:58,830 --> 00:47:02,590
getting like a, you know, stores in
Bickle or something, uh, I'm pretty,

741
00:47:02,890 --> 00:47:05,070
I'm pretty suspicious of these,

742
00:47:05,070 --> 00:47:08,230
these temperatures that I'm being told
that they're heating at for anything that

743
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:09,870
I'm paying under 200 bucks for.

744
00:47:10,860 --> 00:47:15,030
Yeah, I, I I think you're right
to be suspicious, um, on that, uh,

745
00:47:15,090 --> 00:47:19,550
for a couple of reasons. Um, some
don't actually use a thermal couple,

746
00:47:19,890 --> 00:47:21,230
you know, a, a a,

747
00:47:22,070 --> 00:47:24,910
a sensor that feeds back
the actual temperature.

748
00:47:25,490 --> 00:47:29,380
And then moreover, I think the,
the biggest thing is, well,

749
00:47:29,470 --> 00:47:32,660
think about a regular oven.
You heat it to 350 degrees,

750
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,020
but as soon as you open the
door to put your cookies in, um,

751
00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:40,860
then <laugh> it drops a considerable
amount and the same with a vaporizer.

752
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,460
So as soon it might heat
it to a steady state,

753
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,580
but as soon as you start pulling cool
air in, that's going to vary the, uh,

754
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:54,260
the actual temperature of the airflow
and the vapor that you're experiencing.

755
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:55,340
Now,

756
00:47:55,340 --> 00:48:00,260
the good side of the
temperature settings that

757
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,660
on a particular vaporizer
is that you'll probably get

758
00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:09,820
relative consistency from
one session to another, um,

759
00:48:10,340 --> 00:48:13,740
regardless of whether it's actually
true. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so,

760
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,780
so that can still be a very,

761
00:48:15,780 --> 00:48:20,780
very beneficial kind of attribute to
a vaporizer so that you can be able to

762
00:48:20,890 --> 00:48:23,860
dial in the experience that you
want from one session to another.

763
00:48:24,830 --> 00:48:27,620
Right on. I, I buy that. I think
that makes a lot of sense. So,

764
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,220
so even though on some of the
lesser, um, expensive vapes,

765
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,420
the, uh, the temps maybe not
be accurate to, you know,

766
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,740
the number that they say it is. Um,

767
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,260
but at least it's gonna be
same from session to session.

768
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,260
So once you find out the, you
know, where you like it, um,

769
00:48:47,260 --> 00:48:50,500
it'll be able to hit that
mark consistently. Yeah. Yeah,

770
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:54,940
that makes a lot of sense. I like
that. Um, so let, let's talk about the,

771
00:48:54,940 --> 00:48:57,860
the grinding part, right? Mm-hmm.
<affirmative>. Um, so, you know,

772
00:48:58,420 --> 00:49:01,220
historically a lot of people don't, um,

773
00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:05,740
grind flour for a bowl. Um, uh,

774
00:49:05,740 --> 00:49:08,860
many people will grind
flour to roll a joint,

775
00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:13,300
though my mentor hated grinders and
believed it always had to be done

776
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:17,660
by scissors. Um, but I think
that was because he, um,

777
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,940
he was always collecting seeds, so
I'm not sure about that. Um, but, but,

778
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,340
but when it comes to, you
know, grinding, you know,

779
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:31,060
every book that you get
with your vaporizer says to,

780
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,780
uh, grind the flower so you
get a more even experience.

781
00:49:35,930 --> 00:49:37,100
Will you speak to that?

782
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,540
Mm, yeah. Uh,

783
00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:46,060
I really don't like grinders,
but it's true. Uh, on,

784
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,140
on, well, there's pros and
cons, let's just say. Yeah.

785
00:49:49,140 --> 00:49:50,100
Break it down. Tell us.

786
00:49:50,350 --> 00:49:53,580
Let's break it down. Uh, when
you actually grind your herb,

787
00:49:53,580 --> 00:49:58,140
you are changing the particle
side and making some uniform

788
00:49:58,370 --> 00:50:01,300
consistency in the, uh,

789
00:50:01,300 --> 00:50:04,540
when you pack your material
into your vaporizer.

790
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:10,180
And so that can be very beneficial
to get even flow similar to grinding

791
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,380
coffee, right? You can't make coffee
with whole beans <laugh>, you know,

792
00:50:14,380 --> 00:50:18,380
you have to have to grind it.
And for different coffee makers,

793
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,860
you grind it to different sizes.

794
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,940
So it's a similar analog for,

795
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,780
for flower vaporizers too. Uh,

796
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:32,980
grinding will certainly give you
that consistency, uh, of the,

797
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,140
of the pack, if you will, or
the puck <laugh> as I call it,

798
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,220
cuz it comes out as a puck
once you've used it. Um,

799
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,100
but I don't really like the,

800
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:46,700
what happens to my trichomes. Um,

801
00:50:46,740 --> 00:50:51,660
I don't want to go chasing after keef
and then reintroduce it to, uh, the bowl.

802
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,220
Um, so I prefer actually to
chop my, my herb directly in,

803
00:50:57,810 --> 00:51:00,100
into the chamber or to the bowl. Um, when.

804
00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:03,980
You say chop, do you mean like, uh,
like finger separation or scissors?

805
00:51:04,620 --> 00:51:09,300
I, I actually just use fingers
to pluck small, you know, uh,

806
00:51:09,550 --> 00:51:11,780
small size. And then I, I have a,

807
00:51:12,010 --> 00:51:16,860
have a tiny little sharp knife that,
uh, that I poke it with <laugh> mm-hmm.

808
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:19,380
<affirmative> and, and tease
it around and, and get it to a,

809
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:22,660
a fairly uniform consistency.
So that's, that's my method,

810
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,620
but everybody has their own
kind of method, but I like
to keep my trichomes, um,

811
00:51:27,620 --> 00:51:29,020
with the rest of my herb.

812
00:51:29,850 --> 00:51:30,380
Yeah. And,

813
00:51:30,380 --> 00:51:33,340
and I guess some of that also depends
on what kind of a grinder you're using,

814
00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:37,100
right? Totally. If you're not using the
keefe attachment, um, it stays with it.

815
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,820
The part about the grinders that
I haven't really cared for is,

816
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,780
is this smearing of all the trichomes
and Absolutely. And then like cleaning,

817
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:50,580
cleaning them off of the grinder. You
know, if, you know, back, back when I was,

818
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,900
you know, younger, that seemed like
a lot of waste. Completely. I mean,

819
00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:56,780
it still seems like a lot of waste,
but I have, I have plenty of weed now,

820
00:51:56,780 --> 00:52:01,620
you know, I'm unlike when I was
younger. Totally. And, um, but,

821
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:06,660
uh, for me the, the main advantage
of the grind is to get that,

822
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:07,570
um,

823
00:52:07,570 --> 00:52:12,340
nice even pull and to know that I am not

824
00:52:12,490 --> 00:52:16,420
wasting the, the tricombs that are, um,

825
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,180
on the interior of the little bud lits,
let's say, that are in there. Right.

826
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,500
Um, am I correct in my
assumption that the,

827
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:27,340
the hot air

828
00:52:28,980 --> 00:52:31,840
and the conductive walls of the oven,

829
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:36,960
neither of those will vaporize a trichome

830
00:52:37,310 --> 00:52:41,680
that is caught on the interior
of a dense budd little piece?

831
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:47,320
Uh, yes. In general, um,

832
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:52,080
the <laugh>, it really depends on the
size, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh,

833
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,040
of, of what you're dealing with there. Um,

834
00:52:57,210 --> 00:53:02,210
I would say that, uh, yes,
it's, it's more efficient to,

835
00:53:02,270 --> 00:53:06,650
to actually grind your urban to be able
to access those internal trichomes.

836
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,090
I'll just leave it at that
<laugh>. Yeah. I mean this is.

837
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,050
This is clearly personal preference,
right? Right. So, so you, you,

838
00:53:12,070 --> 00:53:16,650
you gave good reasons why you're, you
know, on your side and, and I did as well,

839
00:53:16,670 --> 00:53:19,370
and you and I all both have plenty
of weed <laugh>, but to some,

840
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:23,050
somebody else whose decision matrix
might be slightly different. Well,

841
00:53:23,690 --> 00:53:26,460
I want them to be able to get the
information they need too. Right?

842
00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:27,660
Totally. Totally. I, I.

843
00:53:27,660 --> 00:53:29,660
Have, I know lots of people
who have opinions who,

844
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,660
who I need more than just
their opinion because I, I I,

845
00:53:32,860 --> 00:53:36,180
I wanna un I wanna kind of understand
the whole area so I can make my opinion.

846
00:53:36,670 --> 00:53:41,060
Right. Right. What I tend to do, I mean,
again, this is my personal preference,

847
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,900
is, you know, when you have those small
nuggets, you are correct that the,

848
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,220
the internal trichomes don't
immediately, um, aren't accessible to,

849
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,420
to the hot air. Um, uh,
what I tend to do is,

850
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:59,260
is open the chamber back up and crush
it, and then release all of those things.

851
00:54:00,020 --> 00:54:00,410
I see.

852
00:54:00,410 --> 00:54:02,580
Once, once, once you've hit it
a couple times and it's dry.

853
00:54:02,890 --> 00:54:07,660
Then it's dried and it will
then fall apart readily and you

854
00:54:07,890 --> 00:54:10,500
Yeah. And then you've got your even, uh,

855
00:54:10,740 --> 00:54:13,860
distribution then of particles
and it's, uh, more efficient.

856
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:14,340
Right.

857
00:54:14,340 --> 00:54:18,260
On the next thing I was gonna ask you
was the reg recommendation that most of

858
00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:23,260
these, these companies have to stir.
Yeah. And, uh, and so, you know,

859
00:54:23,290 --> 00:54:27,860
usually somewhere around, I don't know,
hit four or five, they say, oh, pop,

860
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:32,220
pop, pop it open and give it
a little stir. And oh my God,

861
00:54:32,220 --> 00:54:33,260
it just kills me how,

862
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,780
how often I see somebody using a pen
with ink on the end to do that <laugh>.

863
00:54:37,780 --> 00:54:38,613
And I'm all like,

864
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,700
you're not even thinking about what
you're putting on your err dude <laugh>,

865
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,260
but it's way too common.
But anyway, then they,

866
00:54:44,260 --> 00:54:47,980
then they close it up and
continue on and, um, you know,

867
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,740
do you think that
stirring is, is effective?

868
00:54:51,450 --> 00:54:55,420
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh,
almost all vaporizers have,

869
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,900
um, you know, with the
airflow going through,

870
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:03,180
you're not going to get even
heating of, of your herbs.

871
00:55:03,180 --> 00:55:04,900
So stirring it just means you're,

872
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:09,780
you're moving the sort of the unspent
particles around moving the oils

873
00:55:09,780 --> 00:55:13,180
around so that they can be
efficiently vaporized. So I,

874
00:55:13,660 --> 00:55:17,380
I strongly encourage stirring, if you
want to get the most out of your herb,

875
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,380
if you're feeling kinda lazy and,
and you have got a, you know,

876
00:55:21,380 --> 00:55:24,460
an abundance of herb available,
then, you know, whatever you want.

877
00:55:24,780 --> 00:55:28,500
<Laugh> Right on if you're feeling,
if you're feeling lazy or wealthy. Um.

878
00:55:28,510 --> 00:55:29,100
Right.

879
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:31,980
<Laugh>. So, so at what point would
you recommend this stirring? Um,

880
00:55:32,940 --> 00:55:36,860
I usually stir when I, when I taste the
toast for the first time. Right. But I,

881
00:55:36,940 --> 00:55:39,940
I also suspect that I'm, I'm,
I'm one hit late at that point.

882
00:55:41,330 --> 00:55:45,020
Yeah. Uh, it, it really
is a personal preference,

883
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:49,860
so you can stir every pole, which is
a pain in the butt. Yeah. But, um,

884
00:55:50,530 --> 00:55:54,260
yeah, every three or four poles, you know.

885
00:55:54,850 --> 00:55:57,620
I've never tried ever every
pole. I ha like that, that,

886
00:55:57,620 --> 00:55:59,860
that sounds like so much
work, but it's, I I should,

887
00:56:00,020 --> 00:56:02,100
I should do it for the
experience for sure.

888
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:03,980
So that I can weigh all this properly.

889
00:56:04,690 --> 00:56:06,620
Yeah. I would never do
it. Every poll <laugh>.

890
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:14,260
Um, you know, we, we talked on the
first set about how, um, you know,

891
00:56:14,350 --> 00:56:17,580
cloud hits are different with vapes,

892
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,660
and yet sometimes you do pull clouds
and sometimes you do pull bigger

893
00:56:23,250 --> 00:56:27,500
flavorful hits, even if
there is no cloud. And, um,

894
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:28,940
in my experience,

895
00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:34,580
whatever cloudness I'm going to get from
a vaporizer is improved with stirring.

896
00:56:36,170 --> 00:56:37,140
What are your thoughts? Yeah.

897
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:40,220
I, I can see that. Yeah. Uh, and again,

898
00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:45,260
I think that once you're into
pole two or three, you've, um,

899
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,620
you know, you, you have decarb,
you have warmed the bowl,

900
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,660
you have removed any,
uh, of the residual, um,

901
00:56:54,660 --> 00:56:58,580
sort of moisture in the urban,
and so they just, it just becomes,

902
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:03,300
the whole system becomes
a lot more efficient, you
know, three or four poles in,

903
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,580
and so you are going to
get, uh, more, you know,

904
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,620
bigger clouds more easily at that point.

905
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:15,100
All right. So, um, so,
uh, let's, let's move on.

906
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,220
Unless you've got anything else to say
here. Let's move on to oil vapes. Yeah.

907
00:57:18,330 --> 00:57:18,700
Well.

908
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:21,380
Let, let me talk, just Yeah,
please briefly about a couple,

909
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:23,820
couple of other things.
Excellent. Um, here,

910
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,260
one is that we haven't talked
about sort of the exhaust,

911
00:57:26,290 --> 00:57:30,340
what happens to the vapor after
it's moved through your herb.

912
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:31,980
And, um,

913
00:57:32,860 --> 00:57:37,700
frequently another thing to look
at in a vaporizer is how much

914
00:57:38,250 --> 00:57:42,740
accumulates, you know, in
that vapor pathway. Uh, some,

915
00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:48,220
some, uh, vaporizers on the markets,
and I'm not gonna call them out, but,

916
00:57:48,220 --> 00:57:51,580
you know, claim for an all
glass pathway. Uh, well,

917
00:57:51,790 --> 00:57:56,220
glass actually is, is a fairly
conductive material. Um,

918
00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:58,220
it tends to be cool. So we,

919
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,620
we have this perception that we
want to cool the vapor. Well,

920
00:58:01,620 --> 00:58:02,900
once we cool the vapor,

921
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,540
you've got those oils that are
then condensing in that pathway.

922
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,660
And the way you can tell, you know,

923
00:58:10,730 --> 00:58:13,740
sort of how efficient the vaporizer is,

924
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:18,820
is how much gunk you have to
clean out and how often, um,

925
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,420
so another sort of buying decision is
to look at, you know, just how much, uh,

926
00:58:23,420 --> 00:58:26,540
you know, what happens to the vapor
after it goes through the herb. Um,

927
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,020
are you having to frequently clean
it? Well then that's not really,

928
00:58:31,020 --> 00:58:34,180
you're not getting the maximum benefit
from your vapor. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

929
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,940
So I wanted to say that. Um,

930
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:41,540
and then one of the other
sort of controversies or
questions that are out there

931
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,500
is, is how, how much do you
pack in your chamber? You know,

932
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:51,020
how do you press it down?
Do you, uh, crush it? Um,

933
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,500
how dense do you, do you pack it in? Um,

934
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,420
and my take on this from a sort of
aeronautic science kind of <laugh>

935
00:58:59,850 --> 00:59:02,780
direction is that for convection based,

936
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,300
so the ones that are using the hot
air for a convection based vaporizer

937
00:59:07,970 --> 00:59:11,140
tamp it down, so press
it down and compress it.

938
00:59:11,650 --> 00:59:16,540
It's similar to what you do with an
espresso shot. You're removing any,

939
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:17,770
um,

940
00:59:17,770 --> 00:59:22,620
sort of easy channels for the air to
flow past your herb rather than through

941
00:59:22,620 --> 00:59:26,740
it. And air will always find
the path of least resistance.

942
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,060
So if you have those channels
and the larger buds in there,

943
00:59:30,290 --> 00:59:34,180
then it's gonna flow past rather
than through, um, your herb.

944
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,100
So definitely compress it, uh, down,

945
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,860
and it creates what's
known as back pressure,

946
00:59:39,870 --> 00:59:44,620
which is similar to a carb cap on
a dab rig. It lowers the pressure,

947
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,940
um, right there at the herb and
it will vaporize more efficiently.

948
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,460
Wow. I'm really glad that
you went back for that. Um,

949
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,900
not only is that interesting,
but I do it wrong. You know,

950
00:59:56,020 --> 00:59:58,580
I noticed it earlier when
you said, um, you know,

951
00:59:58,580 --> 01:00:02,460
when you take the puck out of your
vape, right? Right. And I'm all like,

952
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,500
I'm all like, man, I don't, I
don't, I don't have pucks, <laugh>,

953
01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:09,860
it's just like, it just comes
out as like slightly brown

954
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,380
ground up weeds still, you know,
uhhuh. Um, and, and in my head,

955
01:00:15,620 --> 01:00:15,900
I,

956
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:20,820
I wanted to leave a little
breathing room so that the hot air

957
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:23,820
could easily be, be drawn through it,

958
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,580
but now I understand
from your analysis that,

959
01:00:26,580 --> 01:00:31,580
that I'm doing it exactly wrong
because by my leaving it somewhat loose

960
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:36,820
in there, even though that does make it
easier for the stirring, uh, step, that,

961
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:37,953
um,

962
01:00:38,090 --> 01:00:42,820
that I am cre I'm allowing
easy vapor paths that

963
01:00:43,330 --> 01:00:46,820
that will be preferred by the
physics of the inhalation,

964
01:00:47,570 --> 01:00:51,700
when really I wanna press it down so
that there's all these multitude of,

965
01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:53,580
variety of paths that are being taken.

966
01:00:54,830 --> 01:00:57,690
For a convection based vaporizers
Yeah. For a convection. So for,

967
01:00:57,830 --> 01:01:01,330
for a conduction based
vaporizer or like a DAV app,

968
01:01:01,460 --> 01:01:05,490
which is the really innovative
design, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

969
01:01:05,690 --> 01:01:10,570
I like those basic Yeah. They're look
like, I mean, they, they replicate the,

970
01:01:10,830 --> 01:01:15,490
the notion of smoking. So it's like a,
it's a smoke like experience, right? Uh,

971
01:01:15,490 --> 01:01:20,290
but there are largely a conduction
based, uh, you know, vaporizer in,

972
01:01:20,310 --> 01:01:24,210
in that regard, the, the metal
heats up, right? For, for,

973
01:01:24,590 --> 01:01:28,210
for something like that, or the
packs, um, I, which many people have,

974
01:01:28,970 --> 01:01:29,850
I would say a,

975
01:01:29,970 --> 01:01:34,490
a looser pack is probably better
because you're heating from the walls.

976
01:01:35,150 --> 01:01:38,010
So how does the heat then
transfer? If it's really dense?

977
01:01:38,550 --> 01:01:43,450
The heat is not gonna be transported
through your herb because your herb itself

978
01:01:43,550 --> 01:01:47,410
is, has low conductivity, wood and plants.

979
01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:50,530
They don't conduct heat very well. Um,

980
01:01:50,530 --> 01:01:55,170
whereas then the air that's moving through
there, you want it to circulate and,

981
01:01:55,350 --> 01:01:59,850
and the heat to then move into the
center of, of that chamber. So, um,

982
01:01:59,910 --> 01:02:03,650
for a conduction based vaporizer, I
would pack it a little more loosely.

983
01:02:04,350 --> 01:02:08,770
You know, it's interesting too, to hit
on the dine of app one more time. Um, uh,

984
01:02:08,850 --> 01:02:13,130
I, I, I have owned one and the one I have,

985
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,130
I've only ever used it with, uh,
my butane torch. Right, right.

986
01:02:17,130 --> 01:02:21,460
And that's an interesting experience to
hear the little crack sound and then,

987
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,220
and then know that it's time to take
your hit all. That's very interesting.

988
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:28,460
I'm not a super big fan of using the
torches in general though. Right. Um,

989
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,060
but then my buddy Michael, you know,

990
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,980
he came over and he is like a total
di of va like fanboy. Like he, well,

991
01:02:36,180 --> 01:02:40,220
actually, he kind of is just like a
vaporizing scientist, actually. He,

992
01:02:40,220 --> 01:02:42,020
you know, until, until I met you,

993
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,820
he pretty much knew more than
anybody I knew about him. And, um,

994
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:47,380
and so he got this, uh,

995
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,380
he got this desktop thing that
Dinova has got where it's like you,

996
01:02:51,380 --> 01:02:55,620
you plug it in and you can just
kind of put the pipe into it and,

997
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,020
and it acts kind of like, um, it,

998
01:02:59,020 --> 01:03:03,860
it transfers electric energy to
it, and it's very convenient.

999
01:03:03,930 --> 01:03:08,220
Like an email is, and then, and then
you just take it out and you hit it.

1000
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,220
And it's, it's so much
more elegant. And it's,

1001
01:03:10,290 --> 01:03:14,860
it's interesting that it is a
product that has multiple, um,

1002
01:03:14,970 --> 01:03:19,420
heating mechanisms because really
that's pretty uncommon to have multiple

1003
01:03:19,420 --> 01:03:23,220
heating mechanisms for one vape system.

1004
01:03:23,850 --> 01:03:24,700
Yeah. I, I,

1005
01:03:24,900 --> 01:03:27,740
I really am impressed with the sort
of the engineering background of,

1006
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,980
of the dine of app and
what they're doing. I,

1007
01:03:30,140 --> 01:03:34,580
I believe that's an induction based
heating, um, sort of block that you,

1008
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,660
you drop it in, and so it uses
induction to then heat, um,

1009
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:43,020
it up to the perfect temperature. So,
uh, I think that's pretty fantastic.

1010
01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:45,660
Excellent. All right. Are you
ready to move on to oil now?

1011
01:03:45,970 --> 01:03:46,440
Sure.

1012
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,100
All right. So, so as kind
of like a bridge place,

1013
01:03:49,390 --> 01:03:54,100
let's just give a little bit of a
shout out to those flower vaporizers

1014
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:59,460
who really, really wanna be oil
vaporizers too, <laugh>. And so, um,

1015
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,860
you know, they will, they will have like
little solutions like, um, you know,

1016
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,620
oh, I've, I've got a little
cup and you can, you know, you,

1017
01:04:06,620 --> 01:04:11,020
you can take your oil and put it in the
cup and then drop it into the flower

1018
01:04:11,020 --> 01:04:15,260
chamber or Right. Um, or, or, you
know, we've, we've got this, you know,

1019
01:04:15,580 --> 01:04:18,420
specialty screen or a sponge,
you can put your oil in that,

1020
01:04:18,420 --> 01:04:23,220
and then we'll put it into the flower
vaporizer and, and, you know, those can,

1021
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,820
um, people can definitely
find effectiveness with those.

1022
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,020
But I think that across the board,

1023
01:04:30,170 --> 01:04:34,380
it's really hard to make one vaporizer

1024
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,500
that's best for all solutions.
And, and like, if you only,

1025
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:41,900
if you're only gonna buy one and you
need one that does both, that's like,

1026
01:04:41,900 --> 01:04:45,700
there are definitely some good
solutions out there. But, um, you know,

1027
01:04:45,830 --> 01:04:48,420
going all the way back to
the, the, the original packs,

1028
01:04:48,420 --> 01:04:50,740
like little cup that was
in there, you know, I,

1029
01:04:50,820 --> 01:04:54,460
I got mine assuming that it was gonna
be an oil vape and a flour vape,

1030
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,340
but that little, that,
that little cup just,

1031
01:04:58,220 --> 01:04:59,760
it didn't really work out over time.

1032
01:05:00,180 --> 01:05:01,520
Didn't, didn't really work. Right. Yeah.

1033
01:05:01,630 --> 01:05:04,160
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So, so what
are, what are your thoughts on,

1034
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,120
on these vapes that try to straddle?

1035
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:10,920
Well, I think that when
it comes to vaporization,

1036
01:05:11,980 --> 01:05:16,560
um, of, of an oil, it's all about
trying to maximize your surface area.

1037
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:22,180
And so when we're dealing with flour,
it's great because the flour fibers,

1038
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:27,540
uh, wick the oils and distribute them
across the, across the fibers. And it,

1039
01:05:27,650 --> 01:05:29,180
it's pretty easy.

1040
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:33,620
So one way of experiencing
oils or concentrates, uh,

1041
01:05:33,620 --> 01:05:38,460
would be to just drop it on or mix it
in with your, with your flour. And,

1042
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,460
and that can be a pretty
effective way of using, uh,

1043
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,620
the flour vaporizers to experience oil.

1044
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,420
But then you've got a mix and
you're not getting that purity, um,

1045
01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:52,220
that a lot of people who dab are
seeking, um, from, from their extracts.

1046
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,460
And so the, um, just, I'm
gonna do a little bit on the,

1047
01:05:57,460 --> 01:06:01,860
because I spent a couple of years trying
to find a solution to this. Yeah, yeah.

1048
01:06:02,250 --> 01:06:06,660
With oils, and most of the vaporizers,

1049
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,940
the flower vaporizers in the
market use a stainless steel

1050
01:06:11,850 --> 01:06:15,220
kind of Brillo pad, if you will. Um, they,

1051
01:06:15,330 --> 01:06:19,940
it's just a bunch of stainless steel wire
that's been compressed into a little,

1052
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,820
you know, shaped puck or disc that then
gets dropped into the, the chamber.

1053
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,220
Um, the challenge with that is that, uh,

1054
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:33,460
metal will warm up and not reach, uh,

1055
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,940
the vaporization
temperatures very readily.

1056
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,460
So while it's warming
up your thick oil or,

1057
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,340
or concentrate your wax or
shatter is going to start melting,

1058
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,580
and it's gonna travel along
that, uh, along those wires.

1059
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:53,780
And oftentimes before you reach
the vaporization temperatures,

1060
01:06:53,850 --> 01:06:58,500
it's gonna start flowing into the rest
of your unit and you're get get that

1061
01:06:58,610 --> 01:07:03,140
gunk everywhere. Um, so no, most, most,

1062
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:07,780
uh, that try to do both
are, are not very effective.

1063
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:09,040
Um.

1064
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:13,660
How many of us have had that experience
early in our token career where, um,

1065
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:15,220
we try to put, you know,

1066
01:07:15,260 --> 01:07:19,500
a ball of bubble hash or
something into our bong with, uh,

1067
01:07:19,690 --> 01:07:22,980
with a screen and, and we're warming
it up, and as we're warming it up,

1068
01:07:22,980 --> 01:07:27,740
we're seeing it like, slide down the
slide on the glass and you're like,

1069
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,780
you're like, I, I only got one hit
off of that. And now it's all like,

1070
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,740
now it's all recla. Yeah. It's all
inside of the bong. Ugh. That's,

1071
01:07:36,740 --> 01:07:37,020
it's.

1072
01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:39,180
Sad. That's disappointing <laugh>.
Yeah. It's very disappointing,

1073
01:07:39,180 --> 01:07:41,820
but it's similar. I mean, that's exactly
what's happening inside the vaporizer,

1074
01:07:41,820 --> 01:07:45,220
and then you end up having to clean
it out and, and that's no fun.

1075
01:07:45,380 --> 01:07:46,500
Nobody likes doing dishes.

1076
01:07:47,180 --> 01:07:49,660
<Laugh>, you have very
good point. Um, alright,

1077
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:53,260
so let's talk more about like oil vaping
solutions that are specifically for it.

1078
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,900
Let, this really isn't gonna be
a long show on carts. Right. But,

1079
01:07:56,900 --> 01:07:59,060
but let's do talk about just, um,

1080
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:03,140
the idea behind the carts and
how they function. Um, uh,

1081
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,180
but carts could be like their own
show, you know, so Right, right.

1082
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,700
So if you would just explain the
mechanics of carts, um, that'll be great.

1083
01:08:11,490 --> 01:08:16,460
Yeah. I mean, basically you
have, uh, carts are, are a very

1084
01:08:18,140 --> 01:08:21,820
interesting and efficient, right.
Um, they're very convenient. Uh,

1085
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,260
the oil basically is, uh, you know,

1086
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:29,300
is in the cartridge and then
there's a heating element. Um,

1087
01:08:29,790 --> 01:08:34,100
oftentimes there's a wick
or a wicking mechanism to

1088
01:08:34,530 --> 01:08:39,140
make sure that the oil gets transferred
to the, to that heating element,

1089
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,740
um, or to a hot ceramic,
uh, that then, uh,

1090
01:08:45,330 --> 01:08:49,500
locally basically boils the oil locally.

1091
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,580
And so that then, uh,

1092
01:08:53,580 --> 01:08:58,340
that vapor then is
transmitted and, uh, you know,

1093
01:08:58,450 --> 01:09:01,740
through the mouthpiece
and aerosolized. Um,

1094
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,420
one thing I learned recently is that, uh,

1095
01:09:05,770 --> 01:09:10,740
part of the design of, of many
cartridges is actually to introduce,

1096
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:14,300
uh, an external, they
have little air holes,

1097
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:20,020
and that is to make sure
that the vapor is less

1098
01:09:20,230 --> 01:09:22,060
dense, um,

1099
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:28,020
and that it coalesces back into an
aerosol rather than staying in fine

1100
01:09:28,130 --> 01:09:32,180
particulate form. And that was
always, that fascinated me.

1101
01:09:32,250 --> 01:09:35,620
Part of that is to increase
sort of the cloud production,

1102
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:40,140
but also to make it a little easier on
your lungs and to cool it a little bit

1103
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:41,580
before it enters your lungs.

1104
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,420
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I, you
know, as, as far, you know,

1105
01:09:45,630 --> 01:09:49,580
we're really gonna focus
on, on non-car vapes, but,

1106
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,420
but since we're right here, I think that
it's important for us to say, you know,

1107
01:09:54,100 --> 01:09:58,460
whatever your preference is in, you
know, what you want in your vape. Like,

1108
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,140
you know, I'm a big fan
of hash razin personally,

1109
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:06,540
but I certainly have got respected
friends who like properly purged b h o for

1110
01:10:06,540 --> 01:10:11,340
flavor. And, you know, there's,
there, there's a wide range of,

1111
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,220
of what you can put in the vape.

1112
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:17,540
The only thing I want to be
clear on is to know your source,

1113
01:10:17,540 --> 01:10:22,220
because there is a lot of garbage
that can be put in the vapes. Um, and,

1114
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,260
and it, it was weird in the early days,

1115
01:10:24,260 --> 01:10:27,340
people didn't really know what
was best to put in the vape.

1116
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,740
So people tried everything
from, you know, uh,

1117
01:10:30,970 --> 01:10:35,420
coconut oil to vegetable glister
and all these different things. And,

1118
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,620
and, and God help us. We made
it through. Yeah. And, and,

1119
01:10:38,620 --> 01:10:42,300
and so now we know mostly we,
we don't wanna be, you know,

1120
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,390
adding non-cannabis

1121
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:51,560
constituents. Um, but then

1122
01:10:53,290 --> 01:10:54,390
the ones in the,

1123
01:10:55,570 --> 01:11:00,150
in the licensed market are often so
expensive for lots of people that,

1124
01:11:00,420 --> 01:11:04,790
that they tend to buy them cheaper
in the unlicensed market. And then,

1125
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:07,630
then we're back to the problem of, oh
God, what the hell's in it? <laugh>.

1126
01:11:07,630 --> 01:11:12,030
Right. And so, um, you know, whatever,
whatever your oil preference,

1127
01:11:12,300 --> 01:11:16,700
dear listener, um, you know, know,
know your source because we want,

1128
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:20,380
we don't want you to get, you know, some
kind of serious lung issue from Right.

1129
01:11:20,380 --> 01:11:21,900
Uh, from using some sketchy stuff.

1130
01:11:22,390 --> 01:11:25,820
Right. And, and to, for, from
a functionality perspective,

1131
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:30,780
you have to have something
added to the cannabis oil or it

1132
01:11:30,940 --> 01:11:33,420
won't flow well. Right.

1133
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,940
So there's a degree of, uh, of flow that,

1134
01:11:37,970 --> 01:11:40,180
that enters into the design, uh,

1135
01:11:40,180 --> 01:11:44,140
and requires something to
kind of cut or thin, um,

1136
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:48,940
the oil to make it function
properly. Now, one of the,

1137
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:49,913
go ahead. Go ahead.

1138
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:54,090
Is that always the case though? Cause
I really thought that the, that like,

1139
01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:59,170
the big breakthrough in the last
like 18 months is people being able

1140
01:11:59,590 --> 01:12:03,890
to press hash rosin at a viscosity, um,

1141
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,490
that they can put in, in these,

1142
01:12:06,060 --> 01:12:10,810
these new vapes and not have
to have any adulterant at all

1143
01:12:10,990 --> 01:12:14,210
to it. And I, I thought that
was true. Is that not accurate?

1144
01:12:15,090 --> 01:12:18,210
I, I don't know. Shango. Okay. Fair,
fair enough. Stop. Yeah. Fair enough.

1145
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,890
Fair enough. I, I haven't seen those
designs yet. Um, and that's exciting.

1146
01:12:21,950 --> 01:12:23,210
If it is, um,

1147
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:28,690
one of the cautions that I would say for
people with, uh, the cartridge based,

1148
01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:33,890
uh, vaporizers, because at
least I experienced this, um,

1149
01:12:34,190 --> 01:12:38,490
and that is that throat burn
mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um,
that often happens. And,

1150
01:12:38,750 --> 01:12:42,050
and it's easy to think that
that's temperature, but I,

1151
01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:46,290
I don't believe that that's
what's really happening. Um,

1152
01:12:46,910 --> 01:12:49,650
any time that you drop, let's say, uh,

1153
01:12:49,670 --> 01:12:54,650
if you've done Chinese cooking or,
or dropped, you know, hot oil onto,

1154
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:59,130
or oil onto a really hot pan mm-hmm.
<affirmative>, that's like red hot, right?

1155
01:12:59,830 --> 01:13:02,450
Uh, you get, um,

1156
01:13:02,930 --> 01:13:07,530
a lot of you convert
those oils fairly rapidly

1157
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:12,610
into other compounds that
are thicker and are, uh,

1158
01:13:12,780 --> 01:13:17,250
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. You
know, <laugh> well said, they become,

1159
01:13:17,830 --> 01:13:22,770
uh, worse, they become bad shit, you
know, is, is really what happens there.

1160
01:13:22,870 --> 01:13:25,050
So anytime you're, uh,

1161
01:13:25,050 --> 01:13:29,330
really putting the oil in the presence
of something that's super hot, um,

1162
01:13:29,330 --> 01:13:33,650
it's going to alter the chemical
structures of those compounds.

1163
01:13:34,190 --> 01:13:38,730
And so that's what I believe,
uh, the throat burn is due to.

1164
01:13:39,230 --> 01:13:42,350
Um, at least that's my, my,

1165
01:13:42,810 --> 01:13:44,950
my armchair science background on that.

1166
01:13:45,420 --> 01:13:48,630
I'll take it. And, and also,
damn if that's true, uh, that,

1167
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:52,110
that explains why so many people have
turned away from cartridges and gone to

1168
01:13:52,110 --> 01:13:55,710
some of these other solutions,
um, like the Puffco Peak,

1169
01:13:55,710 --> 01:13:59,270
which we're gonna talk about in a
second. But, but before we do, um,

1170
01:13:59,770 --> 01:14:04,230
so do you consider an
email vaping or combustion?

1171
01:14:05,470 --> 01:14:08,950
I would say it's a, it's a form of
vaporization. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

1172
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:09,993
Right.

1173
01:14:10,810 --> 01:14:14,220
And I was wondering if it had to do
with like the temp, because you know,

1174
01:14:14,330 --> 01:14:19,180
certainly we, we do, we we do
see smoke from it, right. And,

1175
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:24,180
and, but we don't ever see
fire. Um, and so I was kind of,

1176
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:27,260
of this idea myself, cause I've
used an email for years that,

1177
01:14:27,260 --> 01:14:29,740
that at my lower
temperatures as a vaporizer,

1178
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,100
but at higher temperatures
it's combustion.

1179
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,460
But that might be like the most
non-science thing I've said today.

1180
01:14:36,100 --> 01:14:39,740
<Laugh>. Well, if you're
experiencing a, again,

1181
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,940
you can alter the chemical composition
without it being combustion.

1182
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,980
So at high temperatures, when you
pass the smoke point of an oil,

1183
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,060
you start altering the
chemical composition,

1184
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:55,900
and that can feel like
combustion, right. Um,

1185
01:14:56,050 --> 01:15:00,340
it's a, it's a harsher effect. And
so when your nail is, is super hot,

1186
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:02,260
um, uh,

1187
01:15:02,930 --> 01:15:06,820
largely <laugh> it will lead
to that kind of a thing.

1188
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,980
So there's been a lot of movement to the,

1189
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:12,820
to the cold start dabbing or low
temperature dabbing. Yeah. Um,

1190
01:15:12,820 --> 01:15:17,700
and emails have certainly helped
that, uh, quite a bit, um, to,

1191
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,100
to dial in the, the
temperatures more precisely.

1192
01:15:20,310 --> 01:15:25,260
Right on. Um, so, um, so we're
gonna, next, let's talk about the,

1193
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,100
the, the Puffco peak, which, um, you know,

1194
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,180
stands out as being, you know,

1195
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:36,660
one of the most cherished,
uh, instruments, um,

1196
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:42,020
you know, in the oil community, you know,
it's, it's, um, it's convenience and,

1197
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,300
and the fact that you, you know,
you were talking about the, um,

1198
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:50,590
oh, surface area, right? Right. And
one of the great things is they,

1199
01:15:50,590 --> 01:15:51,510
they've got these, you know, their,

1200
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:54,510
their bowls are great and they're
pretty evenly heated throughout it.

1201
01:15:54,510 --> 01:15:58,590
And so you've got a lot of space at once
that's in contact with the oil at the

1202
01:15:58,590 --> 01:16:02,550
same time. And, and, you know, I, I
guess I wanna be clear that, you know,

1203
01:16:02,550 --> 01:16:04,790
Puffco is not like a sponsor
or anything, you know,

1204
01:16:05,110 --> 01:16:08,470
o other people like the focus,
uh, Carta, right? So like,

1205
01:16:08,610 --> 01:16:11,630
I'm talking more about the design
mm-hmm. <affirmative> where it, it,

1206
01:16:11,630 --> 01:16:16,310
it looks like a bong and, and
you've got this, this wide bowl and,

1207
01:16:16,490 --> 01:16:20,830
and then it's heated, and then when
you put your concentrate on there,

1208
01:16:21,530 --> 01:16:22,990
um, you're, you're gonna get a,

1209
01:16:23,670 --> 01:16:28,390
a large vapor hit at once because
of all the surface area. Um, do,

1210
01:16:28,390 --> 01:16:31,070
do you like how I'm explaining
the science behind that? Is that,

1211
01:16:31,070 --> 01:16:32,230
is that how you see it too?

1212
01:16:32,740 --> 01:16:36,750
Yeah. Yeah. I have not had a ton of
experience with the Puff Coat, but it's,

1213
01:16:37,450 --> 01:16:41,590
you know, sexy af, right? I mean, it is,
it is <laugh>, you know, let's face it,

1214
01:16:41,690 --> 01:16:45,710
it, it, uh, hits all the
right, uh, notes, I think for,

1215
01:16:45,810 --> 01:16:49,710
for being a fantastic product
and, um, you know, and it,

1216
01:16:49,770 --> 01:16:53,510
and it can really deliver for those
people who want that experience. So yeah,

1217
01:16:53,740 --> 01:16:56,990
it's pretty revolutionary
from an email perspective.

1218
01:16:57,690 --> 01:17:01,270
And, you know, they got a lot of crap
over in, in the early years because there,

1219
01:17:01,270 --> 01:17:06,070
there were some models that went out
with some, you know, failing components,

1220
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,590
which they've, they've, I guess
they've figured out over the years,

1221
01:17:08,620 --> 01:17:13,580
because I haven't heard people comple
compare, uh, complain about that anymore.

1222
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,540
But, um, have you ever seen the, the, the,

1223
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:20,100
the specialty Puffco peak, um,

1224
01:17:20,370 --> 01:17:21,820
hand blown and,

1225
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:25,820
and made glass trophies that they used
for Emerald Cup the last few years since

1226
01:17:25,820 --> 01:17:27,460
they started sponsoring them? No.

1227
01:17:27,740 --> 01:17:28,500
I haven't. Oh.

1228
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:31,380
My God, they're absolutely
beautiful. Um, uh,

1229
01:17:31,660 --> 01:17:34,540
I wish I could plug the artist
who does such a great job on them,

1230
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:38,020
or maybe they change 'em from year to
year. But anyway, if, um, that's great.

1231
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:39,020
You know, for tho who,

1232
01:17:39,020 --> 01:17:43,380
those who like puffco and they
also like ostentatious pieces,

1233
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:47,420
you know, you know, uh, search
for the, for the Emerald Cup, um,

1234
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:49,820
awards, they.

1235
01:17:49,820 --> 01:17:50,340
Look pretty good. Yeah.

1236
01:17:50,340 --> 01:17:53,820
I've seen some great wood ones online
where people are making some oh,

1237
01:17:53,890 --> 01:17:56,820
wood dots, some gorgeous
wood pipes that, uh,

1238
01:17:57,050 --> 01:18:00,380
that then the Carta fits in and
yeah. Yeah, those are gorgeous.

1239
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:04,140
So you can have that smoking like
experience, but then enjoy your,

1240
01:18:04,610 --> 01:18:05,660
your extracts.

1241
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:10,100
So th this whole family
of, uh, of p pipes,

1242
01:18:10,130 --> 01:18:12,180
like the Puffco Peak and the Carta,

1243
01:18:12,510 --> 01:18:17,420
these all would fall into the conduction
category, right. Because, um, that,

1244
01:18:17,450 --> 01:18:22,060
that ceramic bowl that's being heated,
and then we're putting our dab oil on it,

1245
01:18:22,370 --> 01:18:25,220
that is a direct application
of heat. Correct?

1246
01:18:25,490 --> 01:18:26,660
Correct. Correct.

1247
01:18:27,250 --> 01:18:29,700
Yeah. Cool. Um, do you have any,

1248
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,700
do you have anything else to
say about that? Like that,

1249
01:18:32,730 --> 01:18:34,660
that type of design
before we move forward?

1250
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,980
No, I think that, well, I, I always
have something to say, I suppose.

1251
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:40,140
Go ahead, finish this off on.

1252
01:18:40,140 --> 01:18:44,140
This topic. Something Yeah. Yeah.
I, I think, um, again, look at,

1253
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:48,820
at the waste product, right? So what's
left in, in the bowl when you're done,

1254
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,900
uh, and that can tell you a
little bit about clues to the,

1255
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,900
to the chemistry that's happening, um,
during the process of vaporization.

1256
01:18:56,900 --> 01:19:01,820
So when you're left with, you
know, dark, uh, resee, um,

1257
01:19:01,820 --> 01:19:06,780
substances, uh, then you've, you
haven't completely, uh, vaporized them.

1258
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:10,780
And you may have altered the
chemistry just like when, uh,

1259
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:12,980
in a cartridge that's
near the end of life,

1260
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:17,340
the oil has changed from a
maybe a light honey, um, to a,

1261
01:19:17,460 --> 01:19:22,020
a really darker, uh, blend
because you've altered the oils,

1262
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:27,540
um, and you're left with some of that
heavier kind of, uh, compounds in there.

1263
01:19:28,410 --> 01:19:32,140
Does. Hmm. That's interesting
how what is left, um,

1264
01:19:32,140 --> 01:19:34,300
depending on what is left, uh,

1265
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,700
can say something about
your temperature choice,

1266
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,700
but it can also say something
about what's in the oil.

1267
01:19:41,330 --> 01:19:42,163
True.

1268
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,580
Um, so other, other than the,

1269
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,260
the under combusted dark oil
that you're talking about, what,

1270
01:19:50,260 --> 01:19:55,220
what else might we find in
re remaining in the bowl that

1271
01:19:55,220 --> 01:19:56,820
we would want to be aware of?

1272
01:19:57,980 --> 01:20:01,020
<Laugh>? Um, well, you're
not having any plant matters.

1273
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:06,020
So what you've got are, are largely
just different oil compounds.

1274
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,140
Um, when you, uh,

1275
01:20:10,410 --> 01:20:14,220
when the changes happen
to terpenes. Uh, and Dr.

1276
01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:18,740
Stren from Portland State University
has done some interesting research on,

1277
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,940
on dabs and sort of the byproducts of,

1278
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,420
of conventional dabbing techniques.

1279
01:20:24,490 --> 01:20:27,500
This doesn't apply to low
temperature dabbing, uh,

1280
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:32,380
but for high temperature dabs,
um, there's, you know, a,

1281
01:20:33,650 --> 01:20:38,420
what, there's a great word pyrolytic,
but literally means fire changed.

1282
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,100
Uh, and thermal lytic is probably
the more accurate thing. They, the,

1283
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:46,300
the oils then break down into those
benzene rings and these other,

1284
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:52,140
um, you know, hydrocarbons that
have been shown to be present in,

1285
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:57,260
in, uh, you know, cigarette
smokes and be, uh, you know,

1286
01:20:57,260 --> 01:20:59,020
cancer causing compounds.

1287
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:03,380
So I'm not saying that
that's what is in there,

1288
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:08,260
but there is a likelihood of
of, of finding those kinds of,

1289
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,300
of compounds in that remaining.

1290
01:21:12,140 --> 01:21:12,940
Goo.

1291
01:21:12,940 --> 01:21:16,120
Goo. Yeah. Thank you. I was trying to
think of the right thing. It is goo,

1292
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:17,600
it's gunk, it's gross. Um.

1293
01:21:17,660 --> 01:21:19,000
And it, and it's a really, um,

1294
01:21:19,190 --> 01:21:23,960
good encouragement for us that
when we do get a new vaporizer to,

1295
01:21:24,180 --> 01:21:27,280
um, really spend some
time getting to know, um,

1296
01:21:27,420 --> 01:21:31,000
the different temperature
points so that we can, you know,

1297
01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:36,040
really find the right temperature for
how we like to smoke, so that we're,

1298
01:21:36,290 --> 01:21:40,040
we're not having that much,
much, um, you know, uh,

1299
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:45,080
residue and that we're not tempted to
smoke it once it's become gunk. We wanna,

1300
01:21:45,220 --> 01:21:49,160
we wanna heat it properly, so, uh,

1301
01:21:49,380 --> 01:21:51,960
we get to inhale it pre gunk.

1302
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,080
<Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah,
definitely. Yeah. Um, you know,

1303
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,000
for anybody making a selection
of a, of a vaporizer,

1304
01:21:58,060 --> 01:22:01,240
it really comes down to your
preferences, right? Uh, you know,

1305
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:06,200
how much do you value the discreetness?
There's a time and a place, you know,

1306
01:22:06,220 --> 01:22:09,800
for a, for a vape pen that's, you
know, nothing else is going to,

1307
01:22:10,060 --> 01:22:13,600
to actually fill that
need, um, for you. Uh,

1308
01:22:14,220 --> 01:22:18,640
and then how much of an enthusiast
are you, are you concerned about, uh,

1309
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,080
preserving terps? Are
you looking for the full,

1310
01:22:22,630 --> 01:22:26,920
kind of a more relaxed
ritualized experience, which
some of those will give you?

1311
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:32,080
Um, or are you looking for something
that's a little faster? And, uh,

1312
01:22:32,380 --> 01:22:34,480
you actually, I, I don't know about you,

1313
01:22:34,500 --> 01:22:39,040
but I really don't want to interact with
my phone to then control my <laugh>,

1314
01:22:39,190 --> 01:22:43,440
control my vaporizer, right. Uh,
interact with my phone enough. So yeah,

1315
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:43,600
it really.

1316
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,560
It does take you of it, it does
take you out of being present,

1317
01:22:46,660 --> 01:22:49,960
but I also have to cop to the fact that
I've never done that yet. So I, I look,

1318
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:51,440
I look forward to having that opportunity.

1319
01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:56,040
There you go. Yeah. So how
much is the technology, um,

1320
01:22:56,230 --> 01:22:57,520
enhancing your experience,

1321
01:22:57,900 --> 01:23:01,600
or is your technology getting in
the way of your experience? Is it,

1322
01:23:01,740 --> 01:23:05,860
is it becoming part of the focus of
your experience or not? Yeah. To me,

1323
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:09,980
an ideal product kind of fades into the
background and you don't have to think

1324
01:23:09,980 --> 01:23:11,340
about it too much.

1325
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:16,060
Right on. Well said. All right, so,
um, let's bring an end to this, uh,

1326
01:23:16,060 --> 01:23:19,780
rather long set and go to
our commercial break. Uh,

1327
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,820
you are listening to Shaping Fire. Oh,

1328
01:23:21,820 --> 01:23:23,660
and let me make sure you
that you come back, cuz,

1329
01:23:23,660 --> 01:23:25,060
because if that was a long set for you,

1330
01:23:25,060 --> 01:23:26,420
you might be like
thinking about taking off.

1331
01:23:26,420 --> 01:23:28,820
But don't go anywhere cuz we're talking
about something really important.

1332
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:29,680
On the third set,

1333
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:33,820
we are talking about boiling point
myths and the difference between

1334
01:23:34,180 --> 01:23:38,300
evaporation versus boiling. So make
sure you come back from that. Uh,

1335
01:23:38,300 --> 01:23:41,780
you are listening to Shaping Fire and
my guest today is aerospace engineer

1336
01:23:42,210 --> 01:23:43,043
Mark Lewis.

1337
01:23:46,140 --> 01:23:48,610
After you've caught up on the
latest shaping fire episodes,

1338
01:23:48,630 --> 01:23:52,010
do sometimes wish there was more cannabis
education available to learn? Well,

1339
01:23:52,010 --> 01:23:52,680
we got You.

1340
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:56,250
Shaping Fire has a fabulous YouTube
channel with content not found on the

1341
01:23:56,250 --> 01:23:59,930
podcast. When I attend conventions
to Speak or moderate panels,

1342
01:23:59,970 --> 01:24:02,610
I always record them and bring
the content home for you to watch.

1343
01:24:03,110 --> 01:24:05,970
The Shang Los YouTube channel
has world-class speakers,

1344
01:24:05,970 --> 01:24:09,690
including Zoe Sigmund's lecture,
understanding Your Endocannabinoid System,

1345
01:24:10,020 --> 01:24:11,770
Kevin Jory of Wonderland Nursery,

1346
01:24:11,770 --> 01:24:14,410
talking about breeding cannabis
for the best terpene profile.

1347
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,810
Frenchy Cannolis Lost Art
of the Hasian presentation,

1348
01:24:18,570 --> 01:24:22,170
Nicholas Mahmoud on Regenerative
and Polyculture Cannabis growing Dr.

1349
01:24:22,260 --> 01:24:25,050
Sunil Agrawal on the history of
cannabis medicine around the world.

1350
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:30,490
Eric Roski and Josh Rutherford on
Solventless Extraction and Jeff Lowenfels

1351
01:24:30,490 --> 01:24:33,610
on the Soil Food Web. There are
several presentations from Dr.

1352
01:24:33,620 --> 01:24:37,570
Ethan Russo on Terpenes and the
endocannabinoid system too. While there,

1353
01:24:37,590 --> 01:24:42,050
be sure to check out the three 10 Part
Shaping Fire Session series one with

1354
01:24:42,050 --> 01:24:45,770
Kevin Jory, one with Dr. Ethan
Russo, and one with Jeff Lowenfels.

1355
01:24:46,110 --> 01:24:49,690
And even my own presentations on how
to approach finding your dream job in

1356
01:24:49,890 --> 01:24:51,850
cannabis and why we
choose cannabis business,

1357
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:54,610
even though the risks
are so high as of today,

1358
01:24:54,610 --> 01:24:57,130
there's over 200 videos that
you can check out for free.

1359
01:24:57,550 --> 01:25:02,010
So go to youtube.com/shang golos or
click on the link in the newsletter

1360
01:25:04,910 --> 01:25:07,970
Online. Cannabis Seed distributors
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1361
01:25:08,430 --> 01:25:12,090
but Multiverse beans constantly works
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1362
01:25:12,090 --> 01:25:14,570
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1363
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1364
01:25:19,410 --> 01:25:23,170
your favorites as possible so that they
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1365
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1366
01:25:27,070 --> 01:25:31,050
but I get messages all the time from
Breeders saying some version of Multiverse

1367
01:25:31,060 --> 01:25:35,450
asked to buy my entire run.
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1368
01:25:35,470 --> 01:25:38,330
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1369
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:42,890
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1370
01:25:42,890 --> 01:25:45,890
Genetics, Robinhood Seeds and
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1371
01:25:46,900 --> 01:25:51,490
Multiverse also initiates projects with
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1372
01:25:51,490 --> 01:25:53,210
you simply won't find elsewhere.

1373
01:25:54,020 --> 01:25:58,530
Multiverse founder Paul Law sees himself
not only as a curator of the best

1374
01:25:58,770 --> 01:25:59,603
cannabis seeds available,

1375
01:25:59,990 --> 01:26:04,140
but also as a collaborator with breeders
trying to bring novel crosses to the

1376
01:26:04,140 --> 01:26:06,060
market that his customers are asking for.

1377
01:26:07,090 --> 01:26:10,680
Multiverse Beans also creates exclusive
stickers for their popular seed

1378
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:13,960
varieties that are available free
only when you order those seeds from

1379
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:14,793
multiverse.

1380
01:26:15,410 --> 01:26:20,040
Check out their stickers like the
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1381
01:26:20,210 --> 01:26:24,560
automatics on Instagram at
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1382
01:26:24,700 --> 01:26:29,280
the freebies. As you'd expect, Paul
sends quality freebies with every order.

1383
01:26:29,780 --> 01:26:34,560
And when you spend at least
$150 multiverse allows you
to choose your freebies

1384
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:35,840
from their special selections,

1385
01:26:36,780 --> 01:26:41,400
you can get a 10% discount off regularly
price items when you use the discount

1386
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:44,400
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one word at checkout,

1387
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:48,360
sign up for their mailing list to be
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1388
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1389
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So go to multiverse beans.com Now
for a buying experience you won't get

1390
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:56,473
anywhere else.

1391
01:26:58,620 --> 01:27:02,270
Sometimes the topics I want to share
with you are far too brief for an entire

1392
01:27:02,270 --> 01:27:06,190
shaping fire episode. In those
instances, I post them to Instagram.

1393
01:27:06,710 --> 01:27:11,270
I invite you to follow my two Instagram
profiles and participate online The

1394
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:14,870
Shaping Fire. Instagram has follow-up
posts to shaping fire episodes,

1395
01:27:15,140 --> 01:27:19,470
growing and processing best practices,
product trials, and of course,

1396
01:27:20,030 --> 01:27:20,863
gorgeous flower photos.

1397
01:27:21,290 --> 01:27:24,990
The Shang Lo Instagram follows My
travels on cannabis garden tours,

1398
01:27:25,290 --> 01:27:27,550
my successes and failures
in my own garden,

1399
01:27:28,310 --> 01:27:32,230
insights and best practices from personal
grows everywhere and always gorgeous

1400
01:27:32,230 --> 01:27:34,710
flower photos on both profiles.

1401
01:27:34,730 --> 01:27:37,950
The emphasis is on sharing what I've
learned in a way that you can replicate it

1402
01:27:37,950 --> 01:27:42,350
in your own garden, your own hash lab,
or for your own Canna Apathic health.

1403
01:27:42,770 --> 01:27:47,590
So I encourage you to follow at Shaping
Fire and at Shang Golos and join our

1404
01:27:47,590 --> 01:27:52,190
online community on Instagram. Welcome
back, you are listening to Shaping Fire.

1405
01:27:52,430 --> 01:27:56,790
I am your host Shloss, and my guest
today is aerospace engineer Mark Lewis.

1406
01:27:57,290 --> 01:28:01,630
So here's the big finish. During the first
set, we talked about why we vape and,

1407
01:28:01,630 --> 01:28:04,830
and what the customer experience
is, the consumer experiences and,

1408
01:28:04,830 --> 01:28:08,390
and why so many people are attracted
to vaping. During the second set,

1409
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:13,390
we went in depth into the vaporizer
technologies as as they are right now.

1410
01:28:14,050 --> 01:28:17,310
And, uh, a whole bunch of
strategies for, for, you know,

1411
01:28:17,310 --> 01:28:21,230
getting a vape in your
hands that fits your, um,

1412
01:28:21,230 --> 01:28:25,350
smoking preferences because they
really are a personal device. Well,

1413
01:28:25,350 --> 01:28:28,190
here in set three, we're gonna
finish up with a discussion of, uh,

1414
01:28:28,670 --> 01:28:33,310
evaporation versus boiling. Um,
because, you know, uh, if, if,

1415
01:28:33,330 --> 01:28:38,270
if the primary physics that
we want to have happen is the

1416
01:28:38,750 --> 01:28:40,830
cannabinoids and terpenes and the,

1417
01:28:40,850 --> 01:28:45,750
the rest of the resin components to
be vaporized and then inhaled into our

1418
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:46,650
lungs,

1419
01:28:46,650 --> 01:28:51,430
it really does matter what their
volatility levels are and whether we're

1420
01:28:51,670 --> 01:28:53,070
evaporating or boiling.

1421
01:28:53,850 --> 01:28:58,150
And in our scene on Instagram
or on Reddit, you know,

1422
01:28:58,180 --> 01:29:02,980
it's very common to see these
little charts that show all of the

1423
01:29:02,980 --> 01:29:07,780
volatility points for different
terpenes and cannabinoids and,

1424
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:11,620
and we feel like that
empowers us. Um, but Mark,

1425
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:15,700
you've written this great
blog on your website, um,

1426
01:29:15,890 --> 01:29:20,620
that explains how that
belief is not quite right

1427
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:25,900
and, and then people are using that
information and the the thermostats

1428
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:28,820
on our, on our vaporizers in,

1429
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,380
in ways that aren't maybe getting the
results that they're looking for. So,

1430
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:36,260
so I guess, I guess let's,
let's slow slide into this by,

1431
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,900
by talking about these
charts that exist and,

1432
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:44,540
and what their limitations are
that you see as as a engineer.

1433
01:29:46,590 --> 01:29:50,880
Yeah, yeah, thanks Jengo.
I appreciate that. Um, the,

1434
01:29:52,820 --> 01:29:56,160
I'm fascinated by these boiling point
charts, and when I first saw them,

1435
01:29:56,240 --> 01:30:00,800
I was like, oh, that's really
cool. And oh, these vaporizers are,

1436
01:30:00,860 --> 01:30:05,400
are saying that I can dial in, you
know, a particular terpene. If I,

1437
01:30:05,820 --> 01:30:10,120
you know, if I dial it at
to 349 degrees Fahrenheit,

1438
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:14,720
I will get laminine, you know, because
that's the boiling point of limine. And,

1439
01:30:15,100 --> 01:30:19,840
um, you know, that's just not true
<laugh>. It's the bottom line of that.

1440
01:30:20,580 --> 01:30:25,320
Um, as you, as you look deeper
into it, uh, you know, those,

1441
01:30:25,450 --> 01:30:28,160
those may be the boiling points, um,

1442
01:30:28,710 --> 01:30:32,800
boiling points are notoriously
difficult to actually measure.

1443
01:30:32,980 --> 01:30:36,440
So there's boiling ranges.
Uh, most scientists, uh,

1444
01:30:36,500 --> 01:30:40,160
use boiling ranges rather than
a particular boiling point, uh,

1445
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:42,280
because it's pressure dependent and,

1446
01:30:42,500 --> 01:30:46,280
and there's other aspects of the purity
of the sample and all of these other

1447
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:49,480
things that, that lead to
boiling or not boiling. Um,

1448
01:30:50,620 --> 01:30:55,160
so there's that, but that's not as
relevant as the other aspects here. The,

1449
01:30:55,220 --> 01:30:59,240
the great thing about the charts
is that it gives you some relative

1450
01:30:59,610 --> 01:31:03,600
volatility of the
compound. So by volatility,

1451
01:31:04,460 --> 01:31:08,800
how easy is it to go
from a liquid to a vapor?

1452
01:31:09,300 --> 01:31:13,040
So something that's super volatile, um,

1453
01:31:13,140 --> 01:31:17,600
at room temperature will
evaporate really rapidly.

1454
01:31:18,050 --> 01:31:22,800
Think of rubbing alcohol, for example.
So that's a pretty volatile compound.

1455
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:27,640
Whereas as water is not a
very volatile compound, uh,

1456
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:32,640
it takes a little bit more work
to get those molecules into

1457
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:37,240
their, into their gaseous form.
So those boiling point charts are,

1458
01:31:37,340 --> 01:31:40,280
are great to understand some
relative volatility, but they're,

1459
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:43,280
they don't tell the
entire story, if you will.

1460
01:31:44,180 --> 01:31:44,900
So,

1461
01:31:44,900 --> 01:31:49,640
so do they have any value
to us as people who are

1462
01:31:49,750 --> 01:31:54,320
consuming cannabis with
vaporizers? Like, like if there,

1463
01:31:54,340 --> 01:31:57,440
if there might be some, you know,

1464
01:31:57,810 --> 01:31:59,940
maybe not inaccuracies in them,

1465
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:03,220
but some contextual
things that are missing,

1466
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:08,020
can they be useful to us at all? How
could we use them to our benefit? Or,

1467
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:10,820
or is it, is it, is it just not useful?

1468
01:32:11,730 --> 01:32:12,660
Yeah, no, they're,

1469
01:32:12,660 --> 01:32:16,780
they are useful in understanding sort of
the relative nature of these different

1470
01:32:17,020 --> 01:32:20,420
compounds. So what we've
got in cannabis, uh,

1471
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:23,020
is this wonderful bouquet of,

1472
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:27,380
of different aromatics and
flavonoids and cannabinoids,

1473
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:30,900
um, that are in this mixture.

1474
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:36,260
And it's helpful to maybe think
about it as a perfume. Um,

1475
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:39,940
and in that perfume, there's
these top notes that are lighter.

1476
01:32:40,210 --> 01:32:43,700
They're the citrusy notes.
They're, you know, they're, uh,

1477
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:47,780
if you think about that in terms of a
perfume, there's, there's your top notes,

1478
01:32:47,810 --> 01:32:49,940
your mid notes and your base notes. Now,

1479
01:32:49,940 --> 01:32:54,460
if you put on your cologne or
your perfume, um, you know,

1480
01:32:54,500 --> 01:32:59,340
right away you're getting those
earlier notes as part of the mixture.

1481
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:01,460
Um, they're more dominant,

1482
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:07,060
but you're still getting the
base notes and those smells, uh,

1483
01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:09,900
as the perfume evaporates off of you. Um,

1484
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:12,700
but the mixture later on,

1485
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:17,740
an hour later is going to maybe
be less on the top notes and more

1486
01:33:17,980 --> 01:33:21,060
dominant with the mid notes, but your
base notes are still there as well.

1487
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:24,380
And then later on into
the evening, you know,

1488
01:33:24,700 --> 01:33:27,620
a lot of your top notes have
all evaporated, your mid notes,

1489
01:33:27,810 --> 01:33:29,260
there's less of them.

1490
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:34,180
And your base notes then are the
dominant smell that you will smell.

1491
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:39,620
And similarly, uh, that
happens more rapidly, um,

1492
01:33:39,650 --> 01:33:42,740
with vaporization, uh,
particularly flower vaporization,

1493
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:47,460
is that you are for a particular
power setting on your,

1494
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:52,940
on your vaporizer, um, you are
going to get a different mixture,

1495
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:58,460
um, of, of those compounds. And your
second pole will be slightly different.

1496
01:33:58,490 --> 01:34:00,140
Your third pole will
be slightly different.

1497
01:34:00,140 --> 01:34:01,980
Your fourth pole will be more different.

1498
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:07,020
And throughout your session
with a particular, uh, bowl, um,

1499
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:11,860
you're going to be left then, uh,
at the end with some of the heavier,

1500
01:34:12,370 --> 01:34:17,100
more difficult to volatile, um,
compounds, but they'll still be present.

1501
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:21,340
You know, that sounds fun, but
also frustrating, right? Because I,

1502
01:34:21,420 --> 01:34:23,660
I want all of it at the same time, but,

1503
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:28,060
but my mind suggests that the way that
I would get them all at the same time

1504
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,780
is if I am, uh,

1505
01:34:31,950 --> 01:34:34,940
using a really hot setting, right?

1506
01:34:34,940 --> 01:34:38,860
Which would then also give me a
satisfying cloud perhaps. But,

1507
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:43,940
but what I'm doing is I'm like
racking probably the more volatile

1508
01:34:44,090 --> 01:34:46,780
ones in order to get the more base ones.

1509
01:34:47,480 --> 01:34:50,180
And even though in my head
I'm thinking, oh, if I,

1510
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:52,580
if I scorch it at this
higher temperature, I'll get,

1511
01:34:52,610 --> 01:34:56,700
I'll get all the good stuff at once.
That, that isn't really how it plays out.

1512
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:57,553
Is it?

1513
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:03,020
Uh, yes and no. I mean, if you, if you
crank up the heat, you're going to,

1514
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:08,300
uh, volatilize more rapidly,
right? Um, so you're going to get,

1515
01:35:09,480 --> 01:35:13,860
uh, you're, it's still gonna happen
in a similar way. You're, you're,

1516
01:35:13,860 --> 01:35:16,380
your lighter compounds are
gonna evaporate more rapidly.

1517
01:35:16,730 --> 01:35:21,420
It's just gonna be on a compressed
timescale. And so the benefits of,

1518
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:26,420
of those who choose to do low
temperature vaporization is that it

1519
01:35:26,490 --> 01:35:30,020
spreads out that extraction,
if you will, over over time.

1520
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:34,540
And so you're able to taste
and experience the subtleties,

1521
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:38,780
um, you know, in a different
way. A again, if, if,

1522
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:43,740
if I'm have a medical condition
that I'm, um, treating, uh, and I,

1523
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:47,220
and I need that rapid
onset, then, you know,

1524
01:35:47,220 --> 01:35:49,780
by all means crank it up <laugh>. So what.

1525
01:35:49,780 --> 01:35:52,140
What would be the, what would be the
tempera that you would recommend,

1526
01:35:52,140 --> 01:35:56,580
temperature you would recommend
if somebody's goal is to, uh,

1527
01:35:56,580 --> 01:36:00,900
get as much as they can out of
it, you know, teaching, tasting,

1528
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:05,020
you know, uniform in, you
know, just a hit or two.

1529
01:36:05,810 --> 01:36:10,620
Yeah. Well, I, I would, you know,
personally, I'm, I'm never personally.

1530
01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:11,540
You wouldn't recommend that.

1531
01:36:11,590 --> 01:36:13,780
Personally, I wouldn't recommend that. Um,

1532
01:36:13,780 --> 01:36:18,540
I think you get a lot more out of your
cannabis, uh, through a, a lower, I,

1533
01:36:18,660 --> 01:36:21,940
I started out there Shang
go, uh, when I first, uh,

1534
01:36:21,940 --> 01:36:25,420
started exploring vaporization,
and I wanted to, you know,

1535
01:36:25,890 --> 01:36:28,540
ratcheted up to that pre
combustion point, right?

1536
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:33,060
So that I had that heavy
roast. I, I felt, you know,

1537
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:37,460
got the feedback that was more
familiar to me, like smoking. Um,

1538
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:41,020
and honestly, I, you know,
over the last couple of years,

1539
01:36:41,340 --> 01:36:44,780
I consistently start dialing it back
farther and farther and farther.

1540
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:50,220
And it extends my session a little bit,
but my enjoyment level goes way up.

1541
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:53,460
Uh, I don't approach with the bowl.

1542
01:36:53,810 --> 01:36:58,140
There's a point in your bowl
where you start to experience a,

1543
01:36:58,660 --> 01:37:03,500
a bite and, and that's when I cash
out mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh,

1544
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:08,300
if you're up in that pre combustion
zone where you're at, you know,

1545
01:37:08,300 --> 01:37:12,100
temperatures around
400 or, or greater, um,

1546
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:16,540
you're going to get to that bite a
lot faster. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

1547
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:20,740
And to me, then I'm wasting products
because I didn't experience all,

1548
01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:25,420
all of the joy that the rest of the
compounds <laugh> were, were offering me.

1549
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:27,873
Um,

1550
01:37:28,020 --> 01:37:32,140
I think that that speaks to a really
important point and can probably be like a

1551
01:37:32,140 --> 01:37:34,820
theme for the show, which is, um,

1552
01:37:35,050 --> 01:37:39,140
part of choosing to use a
vaporizer for your consumption

1553
01:37:39,900 --> 01:37:41,020
involves, um,

1554
01:37:41,960 --> 01:37:45,060
having a different
experience than combustion,

1555
01:37:45,060 --> 01:37:48,060
because vaporizing is never
going to be combustion.

1556
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:53,420
And so part of becoming
a regular vaporizer is,

1557
01:37:53,640 --> 01:37:58,260
is learning to smoke in new ways.
For example, um, you know, uh,

1558
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:01,580
people who are fans of the
Cold Start, where, where you,

1559
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:06,540
you warm up the tool already
loaded and, and, and the,

1560
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,180
the, the dab oil slowly
increases and you're,

1561
01:38:09,180 --> 01:38:13,540
and you're taking hits as it's warming
up, working its way all the way up. You,

1562
01:38:13,690 --> 01:38:18,660
your, your sesh has significantly
expanded in the time.

1563
01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:21,220
And also, um,

1564
01:38:21,410 --> 01:38:24,660
your every hit that you take
is going to be different.

1565
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:27,540
But that,

1566
01:38:27,650 --> 01:38:32,420
that evolution of the hits
is itself a a different

1567
01:38:32,420 --> 01:38:35,140
experience, an enjoyable experience,

1568
01:38:35,300 --> 01:38:39,700
a connoisseurs experience that you,
that you don't get with, with a joint.

1569
01:38:40,410 --> 01:38:44,300
Yeah. It's, it's slowing it
down a little bit. Um, uh,

1570
01:38:44,300 --> 01:38:47,940
which I think we've lost a little bit
in, in our cannabis consumption, right?

1571
01:38:48,410 --> 01:38:50,260
Keep, keep the foreplay in cannabis.

1572
01:38:50,860 --> 01:38:55,780
<Laugh>. I love it.
<laugh>. Yeah. Well, it,

1573
01:38:55,930 --> 01:38:57,540
it's, uh, leaning into, I mean,

1574
01:38:57,540 --> 01:39:01,860
we don't do shots of alcohol anymore
after college. I mean, maybe occasionally,

1575
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:06,740
but, uh, to me it's, it's more like
sipping a fine cocktail or a whiskey,

1576
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:08,420
uh, rather than, you know,

1577
01:39:08,420 --> 01:39:12,980
slamming it back and not just going
after the end result. Uh, again,

1578
01:39:13,480 --> 01:39:16,060
no judgment, because you know, that,

1579
01:39:16,060 --> 01:39:19,020
that was a large part of my life
for a while. Um, but, and, and.

1580
01:39:19,080 --> 01:39:20,420
As we've talked about throughout the show,

1581
01:39:20,420 --> 01:39:23,180
this whole show is about personal
preference, right? Yeah, absolutely.

1582
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:24,300
So we're not trying to judge anybody.

1583
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:25,940
No, not at all. Not at all.

1584
01:39:26,130 --> 01:39:30,660
It's just be open-minded to
experiencing cannabis differently.

1585
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:35,860
And I think that's what
Vaporization offers you is this, uh,

1586
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:36,420
you know,

1587
01:39:36,420 --> 01:39:41,260
a a really different way to enjoy
really high quality cannabis.

1588
01:39:41,480 --> 01:39:45,260
And, uh, I'm blessed
and you're blessed. Uh,

1589
01:39:45,260 --> 01:39:49,260
and others out there are blessed to
live in places where they have really

1590
01:39:49,260 --> 01:39:54,220
conscientious cultivators who
are creating these amazing

1591
01:39:55,020 --> 01:39:58,740
terp rich, uh, uh, varietals, um,

1592
01:39:58,930 --> 01:40:03,380
that I think deserve to be experienced
in their fullest. And for me, uh,

1593
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:08,100
flower vaporization is a way for, for
me to taste and experience that, uh,

1594
01:40:08,100 --> 01:40:12,900
complexity, uh, that the plant has to
offer. And, and the high is different,

1595
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:14,900
uh, than, than combusting.

1596
01:40:15,930 --> 01:40:19,660
Well, that, you know, that that's a really
great ending to the show there. Mark.

1597
01:40:19,660 --> 01:40:21,300
You know, I, I was gonna ask you if,

1598
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:25,020
if there are any more boiling point
myths that you wanted to point out.

1599
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:27,260
And so I am, cause I don't, you may,

1600
01:40:27,260 --> 01:40:30,340
you may have something else that you wanna
bring to the table before we wrap up,

1601
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:31,980
but that was, that was beautiful. Uh,

1602
01:40:32,040 --> 01:40:35,340
do you have any other boiling point myths
that you wanna bring up before we end

1603
01:40:35,340 --> 01:40:35,890
the show?

1604
01:40:35,890 --> 01:40:39,100
Well, the, well, the only
real thing is, is that, um,

1605
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:44,900
the mechanism is not really boiling,
which is internal to a fluid. It's,

1606
01:40:45,010 --> 01:40:48,980
it's better to think about
it as evaporation, uh,

1607
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:52,180
and just a rapid evaporation
rather than, than a boiling.

1608
01:40:53,220 --> 01:40:56,260
I see. So, so the charts that
point out, the boiling point,

1609
01:40:56,610 --> 01:41:00,620
they may be scientifically
accurate, but, but really,

1610
01:41:00,650 --> 01:41:05,380
because evaporation starts before
boiling, we're back to, um,

1611
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:09,660
you pointing out that it, it really
is more of a, a range. Yeah. And it,

1612
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:13,580
and it is a range that every
time we take a hit, um,

1613
01:41:13,790 --> 01:41:18,340
we're going to cool the, the
heating element to some degree.

1614
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:22,900
And so we're, we're just gonna be
whatever temperature we we pick,

1615
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:25,980
we're actually just gonna be kind of
cycling up and down in that general

1616
01:41:25,980 --> 01:41:26,813
neighborhood.

1617
01:41:27,090 --> 01:41:31,700
Yeah. Some devices warm up faster
and, and compensate, but, but largely,

1618
01:41:32,050 --> 01:41:36,060
yeah, you're, you're, you're doing that
kind of cycling, um, back and forth.

1619
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:38,780
The boiling points again,
give you the relative how,

1620
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:42,620
how you're gonna experience,
uh, that bowl, I guess.

1621
01:41:43,380 --> 01:41:46,940
Excellent. Well, mark, thank you so
much for being a guest on Shaping Fire.

1622
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:50,540
You know, um, I, I've been a fan, um,

1623
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:55,660
of Vaporizers for years and, you
know, but I've never actually like,

1624
01:41:55,660 --> 01:42:00,020
studied them very hard. And, and as
I said in the introduction, you know,

1625
01:42:00,020 --> 01:42:00,853
when I met you,

1626
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:05,300
you had the actual scientific answers for,

1627
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:08,620
for the questions that I
had had for years. And, and,

1628
01:42:08,620 --> 01:42:09,820
and it was funny cause our, you know,

1629
01:42:09,820 --> 01:42:14,580
well our first phone call was over
an hour. And, um, and I was like,

1630
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:18,740
so excited to hear you cross
applying all this vaporization,

1631
01:42:19,880 --> 01:42:24,420
um, all these vaporization
questions I had to, to, you know,

1632
01:42:24,420 --> 01:42:28,660
aeronautical, aeronautical engineering
and, and rocket science. I was all like,

1633
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:32,980
oh, I have finally found my person
for, for the vaping show. So,

1634
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:36,820
um, so I really appreciate
you, um, you know, uh,

1635
01:42:36,820 --> 01:42:40,740
coming over and hanging out with us on
Shaping Fire for a little while and, and,

1636
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:44,540
uh, you know, sharing your
expertise and also, you know,

1637
01:42:44,570 --> 01:42:49,500
kind of taking it out of the heady
super science vocabulary that you and

1638
01:42:49,500 --> 01:42:51,980
I used on our first phone call and,

1639
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:56,860
and kind of put it in layman's terms terms
today so that we could do a show that

1640
01:42:56,860 --> 01:42:58,940
would be open to everybody. So, so I,

1641
01:42:58,980 --> 01:43:03,540
I appreciate your knowledge and your
ability to make that knowledge accessible

1642
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:06,980
to all sorts of different
kind of cannabis enthusiasts.

1643
01:43:07,690 --> 01:43:09,060
Well, thank you so much, Shang. Go.

1644
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:12,900
And thank you for all that you have
done over the years to really educate

1645
01:43:13,140 --> 01:43:15,580
consumers, uh, about
this wonderful plant and,

1646
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,780
and other plants that
are out there. Um, it,

1647
01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:23,700
you've been a part of my own educational
journey and your guests have been,

1648
01:43:24,160 --> 01:43:25,060
uh, part of that journey.

1649
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:28,820
And I just wanna do a shout out to all
of those people in the cannabis space who

1650
01:43:28,820 --> 01:43:33,580
are helping to educate others,
uh, and to deify, uh, this,

1651
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:37,380
uh, industry. Because the
more we can deify it, uh,

1652
01:43:37,380 --> 01:43:41,900
the more we can move beyond the stigma
and, and start really celebrating, uh,

1653
01:43:41,900 --> 01:43:43,180
what the plant has to offer us.

1654
01:43:43,940 --> 01:43:48,260
Fabulous. All right, dear
listener. Um, if you want to, uh,

1655
01:43:48,550 --> 01:43:50,460
learn more from Mark, um,

1656
01:43:50,620 --> 01:43:55,500
I highly recommend that you check
out his website where he has got a

1657
01:43:55,500 --> 01:43:59,380
handful of blog, uh, entries
that are very interesting, uh,

1658
01:43:59,380 --> 01:44:01,020
with all sorts of charts and graphs,

1659
01:44:01,050 --> 01:44:04,820
including the one that we did this
last set, primarily focused on,

1660
01:44:05,120 --> 01:44:07,540
on boiling point myths, which, uh,

1661
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:12,180
it goes into far more detail
than we did here today. And, um,

1662
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:17,100
you can find the blog section at his
website, which is pearl labs.com.

1663
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:18,660
And so it's spelled specially,

1664
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:23,100
so it's P R R L l

1665
01:44:23,820 --> 01:44:25,940
A b s.com.

1666
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:29,660
So it's kinda like a cat pearl labs.com.

1667
01:44:30,480 --> 01:44:34,460
And there you will find,
um, you know, his blog and,

1668
01:44:34,480 --> 01:44:39,260
and also the vaporizers that
he has, um, engineered himself,

1669
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:44,140
um, with all of this insight.
And, uh, I'm a big fan of the, uh,

1670
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:47,620
the neo that I talked about in the
introduction. So at the very least,

1671
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:52,340
go check it out because a, uh, a
vaporizer that functions like a,

1672
01:44:52,480 --> 01:44:55,220
uh, like a handheld lighter
is a pretty cool thing to see.

1673
01:44:56,460 --> 01:44:59,800
You can find more episodes of the
Shaping Fire Podcast and subscribe to the

1674
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:04,400
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1675
01:45:04,470 --> 01:45:07,200
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1676
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:11,560
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1677
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:13,920
enjoy it too. On the Shaping Fire website,

1678
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:17,600
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1679
01:45:17,670 --> 01:45:21,680
news exclusive videos and giveaways
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1680
01:45:21,740 --> 01:45:24,520
You also find transcripts
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1681
01:45:25,020 --> 01:45:26,360
Be sure to follow on Instagram.

1682
01:45:26,380 --> 01:45:31,160
For all original content not found on
the podcast that's at Shaping Fire and

1683
01:45:31,260 --> 01:45:32,920
at Shang golos on Instagram,

1684
01:45:33,340 --> 01:45:36,640
be sure to check out Shaping Fire
YouTube channel for exclusive interviews,

1685
01:45:36,790 --> 01:45:38,360
farm tours, and cannabis lectures.

1686
01:45:38,750 --> 01:45:42,440
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1687
01:45:43,010 --> 01:45:46,160
Email hotspot shaping
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1688
01:45:46,420 --> 01:45:50,280
Thanks for listening to Shaping
Fire. I've been your host, Shang Lo.