1
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,000
I listened to a lot of Roots Reggae
when I was in my early twenties.

2
00:00:10,370 --> 00:00:13,920
Being a stoner in school generally meant
that there was a lot of reggae around.

3
00:00:14,380 --> 00:00:18,480
But in my early twenties, I discovered
the Ban Israel vibration specifically,

4
00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:23,040
and everything changed. There are many
other bands in the roots reggae genre,

5
00:00:23,260 --> 00:00:24,093
but for me,

6
00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:28,320
Israel Vibes is the quintessential
roots band for me anyway.

7
00:00:28,940 --> 00:00:32,960
Israel Vibration embodies the essence of
roots reggae through their messages of

8
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,520
spirituality, social consciousness, and
liberation. Their use of rich melodies,

9
00:00:37,550 --> 00:00:39,240
uplifting chord progressions,

10
00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:43,400
and melodic horn arrangements further
contribute to their quintessential roots

11
00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:47,240
reggae sound. They address
themes such as African identity,

12
00:00:47,730 --> 00:00:51,000
Babylonian system criticism,
the struggle of the oppressed,

13
00:00:51,180 --> 00:00:53,000
and the importance of
faith and perseverance.

14
00:00:53,980 --> 00:00:58,240
Israel vibration's lyrics resonate
with the poetic nature of roots reggae

15
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,640
encapsulating the struggles and hopes
of the Jamaican people. Shirley,

16
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,480
I listened to lots of the
popular reggae at the time,

17
00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:07,880
and these themes imbue most reggae.

18
00:01:08,260 --> 00:01:12,400
But I didn't understand the authentic
roots and meaning of reggae in my soul

19
00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:16,680
until I listened to Israel
Vibrations. Similarly,

20
00:01:17,220 --> 00:01:19,880
we can talk about the
importance of cannabis roots,

21
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,000
a thriving rhizosphere and root zone,

22
00:01:23,300 --> 00:01:26,520
and the love of a thick
mass of healthy plant roots.

23
00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:32,040
But only when we really lean into
roots culture cannabis roots science

24
00:01:32,310 --> 00:01:37,200
will we have both the heart and the
knowledge to grow our best cannabis plants

25
00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:38,183
ever.

26
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,460
If you wanna learn about cannabis health
cultivation and technique efficiently

27
00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:46,420
and with good cheer, I encourage
you to subscribe to our newsletter.

28
00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:49,300
We'll send you new podcast
episodes as they come out,

29
00:01:49,330 --> 00:01:50,740
delivered right to your inbox,

30
00:01:50,750 --> 00:01:54,140
along with commentary on a couple of the
most important news items from the week

31
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,380
and videos too.

32
00:01:55,910 --> 00:01:59,220
Don't rely on social media to let you
know when a new episode is published.

33
00:01:59,650 --> 00:02:03,020
Sign up for the updates to make sure
you don't miss an episode. Also,

34
00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:06,580
we're giving away very cool prices of
folks who are signed up to receive the

35
00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:07,210
newsletter.

36
00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:10,100
There's nothing else you need to do
to win except receive that newsletter.

37
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,820
So go to shaping fire.com to sign up for
the newsletter this week and be entered

38
00:02:14,890 --> 00:02:17,820
into this month's and all future
newsletter prize drawings.

39
00:02:19,330 --> 00:02:22,670
You are listening to Shaping Fire,
and I'm your host, Chango Los.

40
00:02:23,890 --> 00:02:26,590
My guest today is Plant
biologist Sarah Lane.

41
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,950
Sarah Lane is wrapping up her PhD in Plant
and cellular biology at University of

42
00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:32,943
Victoria.

43
00:02:33,010 --> 00:02:37,950
Her work primarily focuses on root
exudates that are involved in iron uptaken

44
00:02:37,950 --> 00:02:40,150
plants and their potential
medical benefits.

45
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,350
Sarah consults for licensed
cannabis cultivators in
Canada and is an avid living

46
00:02:45,420 --> 00:02:49,190
soil, cannabis home grower. Due
to her university research needs,

47
00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:53,390
she's also very experienced
in fogs and hydroponics.

48
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,750
Sarah has a wicked large plant collection
and is currently designing a specialty

49
00:02:58,750 --> 00:03:00,640
terrarium for growing cloud orchids.

50
00:03:01,610 --> 00:03:05,760
Sarah Lane appeared on shaping
Fire 99, just a few episodes back,

51
00:03:05,950 --> 00:03:10,480
talking about the symbiotic relationship
between roots and other residents in

52
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,480
the root zone via exudates
during the first set. Today,

53
00:03:14,660 --> 00:03:19,440
we will look at how roots and root hairs
are created, how they absorb nutrients,

54
00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:24,240
the exudate relationship,
and how different fertilizers
impact the root zone.

55
00:03:25,020 --> 00:03:27,280
The second set is devoted
to root structure.

56
00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:30,600
We will look at the various
forms of root structure in soil,

57
00:03:31,170 --> 00:03:34,680
cocoa and hydroponic systems,
and why they work and don't work.

58
00:03:35,380 --> 00:03:39,520
We will look at the relationship between
root structure and the soil food web,

59
00:03:40,060 --> 00:03:44,280
and we will discuss how various growing
containers impact root structure and

60
00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,680
what that means for
your plant. And finally,

61
00:03:46,980 --> 00:03:51,040
we will finish off with a discussion of
best practices for growing a healthy and

62
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,400
thriving root structure, including
water, pH, soil amendments,

63
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,680
and cover crops. Welcome
back to Shaping Fire, Sarah.

64
00:03:59,630 --> 00:04:01,370
Thanks for having me.
I'm happy to be back.

65
00:04:01,510 --> 00:04:05,490
So glad to have you. You know, I don't
usually ask guests back right away,

66
00:04:05,630 --> 00:04:10,570
but our discussion of root
exudates during episode 99 just

67
00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:13,930
brought up so many root
related questions for myself,

68
00:04:14,030 --> 00:04:18,210
and then in the comments online that I
just knew that it was probably better to

69
00:04:18,210 --> 00:04:22,090
just invite you back right away and push
forward into our discussion of roots

70
00:04:22,110 --> 00:04:25,730
and root structure. So, so thanks for
making the time to come back right away.

71
00:04:26,750 --> 00:04:28,090
I'm so excited. So.

72
00:04:28,090 --> 00:04:29,410
Let's, let's dive right into it.

73
00:04:29,410 --> 00:04:33,130
And we're gonna start out with some
basics because it's become pretty obvious,

74
00:04:33,510 --> 00:04:37,610
um, over the years of taken, um,
questions from audience members and,

75
00:04:38,110 --> 00:04:40,850
and you know, the, the people
who I talk with at conventions,

76
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,570
that there's a lot of us in cannabis
cultivation that kind of take roots for

77
00:04:45,570 --> 00:04:49,210
granted. And so we're gonna start with
some basics of what are roots and,

78
00:04:49,210 --> 00:04:52,570
and how they form. So, so let's
start with the ultra basic.

79
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,090
What are roots made of and how
are they formed by the plant?

80
00:04:57,990 --> 00:04:59,490
Oh, goodness. Um,

81
00:04:59,910 --> 00:05:04,770
so roots are basically an organ
of the plant that are made up of a

82
00:05:04,770 --> 00:05:06,170
couple of different types of tissue.

83
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,130
There's a vascular tissue to
help transport water up into the,

84
00:05:10,130 --> 00:05:11,690
and nutrients up into
the rest of the plant.

85
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,690
It's surrounded by some other tissues
that can kind of respond to the

86
00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:16,320
environment.

87
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,970
There's an epidermis layer that kind of
acts like a skin around the whole thing

88
00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:23,490
to prevent like microbes and things
like that from getting in. Um,

89
00:05:23,830 --> 00:05:27,170
and the purpose of a
root is basically to, uh,

90
00:05:27,410 --> 00:05:31,170
provide anchorage so that the plant stays
put and can survive wind and all that

91
00:05:31,170 --> 00:05:35,410
kind of stuff. But it's also for, um,
for getting nutrients into the plant.

92
00:05:35,790 --> 00:05:37,090
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

93
00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:42,010
my understanding is that there are
different types of roots. Um, I,

94
00:05:42,070 --> 00:05:43,970
you know, there's, there's
like the primary roots,

95
00:05:43,990 --> 00:05:46,810
the big chunky parts that
we can see, but then they,

96
00:05:46,810 --> 00:05:50,850
they seem to have like smaller and smaller
branching roots all the way down to

97
00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:54,330
the roots root hairs. How, how many
different flavors of roots are there?

98
00:05:54,990 --> 00:05:59,040
Oh, so many, so many flavors. Um, it
also depends on the type of species.

99
00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:03,320
So very broadly the type of root
system that you can have, um,

100
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,800
depends on what species you are and like
for, I think for most and angio sperm.

101
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,640
So those are the flowering plants. Um,

102
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,720
they get split up into like roots that
can form from a tap root and then roots

103
00:06:12,750 --> 00:06:13,800
that are fibrous.

104
00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:17,600
And a tap root basically just means that
the plant will make one big long route

105
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,280
that goes down and lots of, lots
of roots will come off of that.

106
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,160
A fibrous root system is kind of like,
it's closer to the stem and it's, it's,

107
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,400
they're not as long, they're
kind of just lots and lots,

108
00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:30,360
but there's also many other plants that
don't even have a true root system that

109
00:06:30,470 --> 00:06:32,320
have like, kind of root-like structures.

110
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:35,920
And then when we get into just like a
regular root ball that we're familiar

111
00:06:35,950 --> 00:06:40,400
with, so like a house plant root ball,
for example, there's the primary root,

112
00:06:40,580 --> 00:06:45,360
but these can get split up into
other like branching lateral roots

113
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,720
that kind of move away from the
root into other parts of the soil.

114
00:06:49,180 --> 00:06:51,160
And then from there you can have, um,

115
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,920
I guess root hairs would
be the next option.

116
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,840
That's just like a single celled
little root hair that sits at just a

117
00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,280
very short amount of distance
from the root itself.

118
00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,240
And that helps kind of pull up
some more nutrients in the area.

119
00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:07,320
So let's talk about that
tap root for a moment. Um,

120
00:07:07,330 --> 00:07:11,440
since we are talking about the root
specifically for our favorite cannabis

121
00:07:11,490 --> 00:07:14,680
plant, um, you know, it's,
it comes up all the time.

122
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,480
People will say this just kind of off
the cuff. They will say, um, you know,

123
00:07:20,030 --> 00:07:24,880
they prefer to grow from seed
because they want to grow

124
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:30,440
a plant with a tap root. Because
when we clone cannabis plants,

125
00:07:30,740 --> 00:07:35,120
the clones, when we plant
them, don't have tap roots. Um,

126
00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:40,760
uh, is there a particular reason
why clones don't have tap roots?

127
00:07:41,420 --> 00:07:42,253
And, um,

128
00:07:42,390 --> 00:07:47,320
what is the function of the
tap root in a seed plant that

129
00:07:47,380 --> 00:07:50,280
we are missing out on
when we grow a clone?

130
00:07:51,220 --> 00:07:53,600
Ooh, that's a really
interesting question. So,

131
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,800
I guess when we talk about the types
of root systems that a plant can have,

132
00:07:57,900 --> 00:08:02,440
we are usually referring to like a
developmental thing. So the plant,

133
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,880
when it's in a seed, is programmed
to have a tap root, root system.

134
00:08:07,350 --> 00:08:08,240
When we clone,

135
00:08:08,410 --> 00:08:12,320
we're actually taking advantage of
almost a wound healing response instead.

136
00:08:12,580 --> 00:08:16,960
So the plant has the ability to make
cells that wouldn't normally be roots,

137
00:08:17,230 --> 00:08:19,000
turn into roots to help it survive,

138
00:08:19,060 --> 00:08:21,960
but that isn't necessarily how it
was developmentally designed to do.

139
00:08:22,540 --> 00:08:25,720
So when we go to the tap root,
when you grow from a seed,

140
00:08:25,790 --> 00:08:30,480
that tap root goes as far down
as possible to get as deep as

141
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:31,560
possible into the earth.

142
00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:36,680
And advantage to like having a very
long tap root is that if you can go like

143
00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:40,720
meters and meters down into the soil and
then produce lateral roots from there,

144
00:08:41,310 --> 00:08:44,440
then you can access so much more of the,

145
00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:47,880
of the ground to get your nutrients from.

146
00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:50,720
And if you have like a really short
tap root, then you're probably like,

147
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,120
if you can only go four inches down,

148
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,240
you're only able to access
that much of the soil.

149
00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:57,160
And so when you grow from a clone,

150
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,200
I don't think it truly matters in the
long run because we're usually growing in

151
00:09:02,350 --> 00:09:06,160
pots mm-hmm. <affirmative> and pots.
Like even if you have a tap root system,

152
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,920
you can only get to the bottom of the pot
and then you're gonna be branching out

153
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,520
from there. Um, but from a clones
perspective, like you wouldn't have,

154
00:09:12,540 --> 00:09:15,440
if you were growing out in
like, I don't know, a field,

155
00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:18,600
you wouldn't have access to
that same depth of nutrients.

156
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,480
It would be harder for you to get to.

157
00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:24,000
That makes sense. I've, I'm gonna push
on this one more ti one more question.

158
00:09:24,620 --> 00:09:28,920
Um, I, I, I, I love the perspective
that you shared about how, um,

159
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,680
a clone rooting itself is kind of, uh,

160
00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:36,880
like a recovery or a first aid event
because it's been damaged and it's

161
00:09:37,070 --> 00:09:41,680
repurposing other <laugh>,
dare I say, stem cells, um, to,

162
00:09:41,780 --> 00:09:45,360
but no, no different, different
cells in the plant to create this,

163
00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:47,800
this root environment. Um,

164
00:09:48,270 --> 00:09:52,880
does the plant get stabilized
and kind of shake off that,

165
00:09:53,380 --> 00:09:54,213
um,

166
00:09:56,030 --> 00:10:00,520
that that damaged first
age, first aid kind of,

167
00:10:01,060 --> 00:10:05,080
um, living bias and like
become a, a thriving plant?

168
00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:07,880
Or will a clone forever, um,

169
00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:10,600
be hobbled by the fact
that it wasn't from seed?

170
00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:15,400
Oh, I, I love both. There's two
things I want to talk about now.

171
00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:19,760
So absolutely, plants can
recover, um, quite well.

172
00:10:20,020 --> 00:10:23,280
And if you think about it, they have
to, they don't have feet like we do.

173
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,240
They can't just like wander over.
So a lot of their like responses,

174
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,320
they're constantly adapting
to a new environment.

175
00:10:28,740 --> 00:10:32,040
And if it was one damage
later, one damage event,

176
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,280
like say they got flooded or
something and then they can't recover,

177
00:10:34,430 --> 00:10:36,400
they wouldn't survive very well.

178
00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:39,040
So like any wound or anything
like that that you can do,

179
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:42,560
usually as long as you treat it
properly and it comes back to a healthy

180
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:46,200
environment, you should be totally able
to recover. Which is often why many,

181
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,920
many different types of plants
are vegetatively, propagated,

182
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,320
including like potatoes and
all sorts of other plants. Um,

183
00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:57,520
but the idea of a stem cell plants do
actually have the ability for so many

184
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,720
of their cells to become
stem cells. Oh, unlike us,

185
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,280
where we just have this little tiny
amount of stem cells when we're born and

186
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,480
there's a couple of pockets of it, us of
stem cells in our body that can react,

187
00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:10,520
um, in certain ways, plants,

188
00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:15,720
almost any cell can become a stem
cell that will then be able to be

189
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,920
any other part of the plant. That's why
tissue culture works so brilliantly.

190
00:11:19,410 --> 00:11:22,360
Right on. I'm glad that I stumbled
into that. Brilliant. I didn't,

191
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,480
I didn't realize that was the case.
I was trying to make a pun. So good.

192
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:26,313
Thank you, <laugh>.

193
00:11:26,420 --> 00:11:29,480
No, it's perfect. This is a stem cell,
but it's also a stem cell <laugh>. Right.

194
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,240
On, right on <laugh>. So, um, so
let's talk a little bit about,

195
00:11:34,620 --> 00:11:39,440
um, the, the roots job of bringing
in, uh, nutrients. So, uh,

196
00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:42,480
one of the things that we talked about
in the exit eight show that I found so

197
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,440
interesting is all of the
different ways that roots, um,

198
00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:52,560
mechanize bringing in nutrition
in different ways. And, you know,

199
00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:56,240
on shaping fire we tend to
focus on living soil solutions.

200
00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:59,760
But we'll definitely be covering, you
know, all other types of substrate today,

201
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,520
especially since we're talking
about roots. But for this question,

202
00:12:02,990 --> 00:12:07,560
what are the forms of various
nutrients that roots can't absorb,

203
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,200
assuming that they are thri in
thriving living soil environment?

204
00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:15,800
Cuz I'm assuming that they're gonna,
they're gonna absorb like, you know, uh,

205
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:20,280
like minerals in one certain way
and maybe fungus in a different way.

206
00:12:20,420 --> 00:12:22,720
And you get what I think you
understand what I'm asking? Mm-hmm.

207
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,840
<Affirmative>. Okay. So if I understand
what you're asking correctly, um,

208
00:12:27,220 --> 00:12:32,040
how do roots take on different
types of nutrients in the soil? Yes.

209
00:12:32,060 --> 00:12:34,200
Is that right? Mm-hmm.
<affirmative>. So there,

210
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,360
there's a bunch of different
things when we're talking about,

211
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,600
I guess all nutrients at the end
of the day can be broken down into

212
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,600
nitrogen or phosphorous scs or
like, like basically a salt.

213
00:12:46,220 --> 00:12:50,400
And that happens either because the plant
is able to provide some sort of, um,

214
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,760
chemical or enzymatic process that can
break something down right next to it.

215
00:12:55,220 --> 00:12:58,960
Or because some bacteria or fungus next
to it was able to do the same thing and

216
00:12:58,960 --> 00:12:59,920
they could take it up that way.

217
00:13:00,290 --> 00:13:04,800
There is some evidence that plants can
take up nutrients as slightly larger

218
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,240
molecules, but I think this
is very species dependent.

219
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,680
I don't think all plants can do this. Um,

220
00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:12,480
or at least I'm not
familiar with en enough, uh,

221
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,520
papers that have shown this to
be kind of a universal thing.

222
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:20,720
And then when it comes to like bacteria
or mice or those kind of things,

223
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:24,680
it's, it's more of a, a
conversation between the,

224
00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:26,720
the organism and the plant.

225
00:13:27,220 --> 00:13:31,200
And that involves some chemical signaling
and some invitations are sent and then

226
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,600
the plant is able to repurpose the
structure of the root to house it.

227
00:13:35,740 --> 00:13:39,800
So it's not necessarily that it's actually
getting into the cell more like it's

228
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,360
getting, uh, a special place in the root
to grow. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm.

229
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,200
<Affirmative>, um, your answer,
uh, is, is seems to suggest that,

230
00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:51,400
you know, another good reason that
if we're gonna be growing in soil,

231
00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:56,080
it really behooves us to try
to make a thriving and varied,

232
00:13:56,860 --> 00:13:59,240
um, you know, living root zone.

233
00:13:59,510 --> 00:14:04,280
Because if the roots themselves
are not necessarily breaking these

234
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:04,960
different, uh,

235
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,800
nutritions down and it's their partnership
with bacteria and other types of

236
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,640
microbes, all those friends need to
be there. And, and the ways that,

237
00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:18,800
you know, all the ways that we try to
create a thriving root zone and not,

238
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,520
and not drown them with our
water is all important if the,

239
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,880
if the root zone is going to be able
to have the buffet that we want them to

240
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:26,920
have in their living soil.

241
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,240
I would agree. Yeah, for sure. And
the more vibrant that community is,

242
00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:35,560
the better, um, nutrition is
available. And not only that,

243
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,000
a lot of the microbes that are found in
the soil provide other benefits aside

244
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,760
from nutrition, like competition
against, um, pathogens. For example,

245
00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:47,400
if you have a lot of healthy bacteria
down there, then there's less room for,

246
00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:49,920
uh, an unhealthy bacteria to show up. Um,

247
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,000
it might just be stimulating the plant
to make little immune compounds because

248
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,680
they're there and they don't react
strongly to that particular fungus,

249
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,600
but they're aware a fungus is there
and they might be more ready. Um,

250
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,040
there's so many things that they provide.

251
00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:06,800
Um, I know that you do a lot
of aeroponics and so this, um,

252
00:15:07,070 --> 00:15:10,800
this may be an unfair question to
ask you specifically for living soil.

253
00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:14,440
And I'm not looking for us to like
plug any manufacturers, but, you know,

254
00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:18,400
as somebody who is constantly looking
at ways to create healthier and more

255
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,160
thriving roots as you
do in your research, um,

256
00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:25,800
are there any inoculates
or particular teas or, uh,

257
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,720
anything that you would recommend for
living soil people to help support

258
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:32,800
this, uh, thriving rhizosphere?

259
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:38,320
Yeah, I mean, so for my research I'm
generally trying to avoid the, um,

260
00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:41,080
the presence of bacteria
as best as possible.

261
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,360
Cause I'm really trying
to just get at the root,

262
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:45,280
but I do use compost teas a lot when, um,

263
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:48,440
when I'm growing at home and I, I usually,

264
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,440
I don't know in places
where you can get them,

265
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,320
there's like a nettle horsetail
br infer tea that you can use.

266
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,120
A lot of 'em have molasses bases,

267
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,360
which is really helpful to get certain
types of bacteria and fungus to get

268
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,000
growing. There's like so
many good recipes online,

269
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,840
it'd be hard to plug just one.
But if you, if you go and,

270
00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:07,360
and have a look at some
compost tea recipes,

271
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,640
I think the simplest ones are
the best. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

272
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,240
like a little bit of of soil that's
healthy plus some sugar sources,

273
00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:16,240
plus some plants is usually a good start.

274
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:19,760
Plus. And the one that you mentioned,
I mean, you've got the, the, the, um,

275
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:22,440
the silica from the horse tail and the,

276
00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:25,160
the growth hormones from
the spring nettles. I mean,

277
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,080
that's a pretty potent mix you just, uh,
suggested too. Oh, it is. Yeah. Yeah.

278
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,120
<Laugh>. I guess the other
one I would say too is, um,

279
00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:35,520
it depends on the stage that you're
adding it. Because I, I will often,

280
00:16:35,550 --> 00:16:38,400
when I have very young plants,
I'll do like a barley tea.

281
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:40,920
So you soak barley for
a little while and, um,

282
00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:45,440
all the different growth factors that
allow the barley to sprout are then

283
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:46,360
present in the liquids.

284
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,720
You can either buzz it up or
you can take the liquid off and,

285
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:50,720
and put it on young seedlings and it, it,

286
00:16:50,830 --> 00:16:53,240
it's thought to help grow
and I do it myself. Right.

287
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,800
On. Good clue. So, um, you,
when you were back recently, uh,

288
00:16:57,980 --> 00:17:02,080
or back when you were here the first
time re uh, recently on episode 99,

289
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:06,760
that show was all about
exudates, um, which is a,

290
00:17:06,860 --> 00:17:11,320
is is a, a process that
the roots bring on, um,

291
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:12,380
nutrients.

292
00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:15,960
Now granted that's an hour and a half
episode that we talked about exudates,

293
00:17:16,100 --> 00:17:20,160
and I'm gonna ask you to summarize it
just in, you know, in, in a short answer.

294
00:17:20,740 --> 00:17:25,080
And because I think it's important that
folks understand that roots do have this

295
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:29,000
exudate relationship because it's
pretty badass. But I'll, I'll, you know,

296
00:17:29,260 --> 00:17:32,920
my goal is maybe hopefully to tease
people with this so that they understand

297
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,560
kind of what you're talking
about for this episode,

298
00:17:34,780 --> 00:17:37,680
but then to encourage them to go
back and listen to episode 99.

299
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:43,080
So will you just briefly, uh,
explain how, um, cannabis roots, uh,

300
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:44,760
work with the exudate relationship?

301
00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:49,720
Yeah. So broadly speaking,
exudates are, um,

302
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,960
molecules that, uh,

303
00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:56,920
the plant root will make that
goes outside of the root.

304
00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:59,720
And it, it's, so it's made
inside the root, it's,

305
00:17:59,790 --> 00:18:04,080
it's exported outside the root.
And while it, while it's out there,

306
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:08,800
it can do lots of different jobs. It can
provide food for microbial communities,

307
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,520
it can help to, uh, loosen
up some nutrients. Um,

308
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:13,480
like we were just talking about,

309
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,600
breakdown nutrients and things like that
nearby. It can provide some protective,

310
00:18:17,780 --> 00:18:20,160
um, efforts too to prevent, I don't know,

311
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:25,120
like it could be antimicrobial
or antifungal or something
like that. Um, and it,

312
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,560
they're, they're just a huge broad
range of, of molecules that do this job.

313
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:36,150
Excellent. So, so, uh, go back and
listen to episode 99 for more <laugh>.

314
00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:40,950
So, um, so I'm really curious. We, we,
we've already talked about how the, um,

315
00:18:41,050 --> 00:18:45,950
the roots, uh, take on,
um, uh, nutrition and,

316
00:18:46,250 --> 00:18:50,230
um, and I believe that mostly
happens at the root hair level.

317
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,350
Would you explain to us,
um, in, in, you know,

318
00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:56,590
kind of both a chemical
and a mechanical way,

319
00:18:56,650 --> 00:19:01,270
what's actually happening there
at the root hair that allows

320
00:19:01,530 --> 00:19:05,110
the nutrition to come
onboard inside of the root?

321
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,490
Sure. I mean, I think for the root here,

322
00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:13,290
it still kind of comes across the way
that it would come across in a lot of

323
00:19:13,380 --> 00:19:17,810
other, um, cells. So when we're
talking about transport from inside,

324
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:22,290
or sorry, from outside the, in the
soil environment into the root,

325
00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:26,330
all cells are wrapped up in this nice
little membrane that has essentially,

326
00:19:26,330 --> 00:19:28,530
you can think of them as like little
trapped doors mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um,

327
00:19:28,790 --> 00:19:32,250
for nutrients to come into
the root that are regulated.

328
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:36,730
So you'd have to turn on a switch for
them to come in. And that happens. All,

329
00:19:36,990 --> 00:19:38,450
all cells are doing this all the time,

330
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:40,610
and that is no different
in a root hair cell.

331
00:19:40,910 --> 00:19:44,170
The big advantage to root hairs
is it's increasing absorption.

332
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:49,290
So if you think of, like, think of how
big a root is and how visible it is,

333
00:19:49,290 --> 00:19:50,123
you could see it,

334
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,650
it's usually depending on how long the
plant's been growing can be super thick.

335
00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:57,410
Um, whereas these root
hairs are super, super tiny.

336
00:19:57,670 --> 00:20:01,690
And so while the main root can plow
through the soil at a pretty good clip,

337
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:06,370
the little root hairs are meant to kind
of slide in between soil particles and

338
00:20:06,570 --> 00:20:08,970
increase the surface area.
Does that make sense? Yeah.

339
00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:09,803
It does.

340
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,860
So that's kind of their
primary purpose is to,

341
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,900
is to increase the absorption rate.

342
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,740
And when plants are trying to choose
what kind of doors they want on their

343
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:23,740
cells, the root hairs will often
have a lot of, um, like for my work,

344
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,860
I'm interested in how iron gets in and
those root hairs can have more iron doors

345
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,740
on them so that more iron can
get in on those root hairs Right.

346
00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:32,300
Than they might in a regular cell. I.

347
00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:33,780
Like, I like that trapped door analogy.

348
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,300
And so there's all these different
flavors and they only open when they are

349
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,220
looking for the particular
nutrient that approaches it.

350
00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:42,540
Exactly. Yeah. Like.

351
00:20:42,540 --> 00:20:45,100
There's a, like a secret knock
or something <laugh>. There.

352
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,600
Is, yeah. Yeah, a little handshake.
<laugh>, uhhuh, <affirmative>, uhhuh.

353
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,000
<Affirmative>. So, you know,

354
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,360
cannabis cultivators often come
into contact with the roots, right.

355
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:55,320
Like sometimes just
briefly when transplanting,

356
00:20:55,420 --> 00:21:00,280
but other times if the plant is root
bound in a container, um, you know,

357
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,840
we might be really
aggressive with the roots,

358
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:07,560
like grabbing them and ripping them
and thinking that we're getting rid of

359
00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:11,720
tired roots that were compacted.
And, and most people will say, oh,

360
00:21:11,780 --> 00:21:16,200
I'm stimulating new growth by pulling
these, uh, these, um, you know,

361
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,040
roots that were compacted off and
giving it more room to breathe.

362
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:25,280
How careful should we be when handling
the roots? Because on one hand, you know,

363
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,480
because I learned it from my mentor, the,

364
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,560
the ripping apart of the roots like
makes sense because that's what I was

365
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,720
taught. But I also constantly
hear from soil biologists that,

366
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,400
that the roots are very sensitive
and we can put the plant into shock.

367
00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:44,760
So I'm assuming that the, the truth of
the matter is somewhere in that range.

368
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,000
I would agree, actually.

369
00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:51,840
So I don't think it's wrong to think
that you are stimulating growth

370
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,760
because just like we were talking
about earlier with the clone and,

371
00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:56,680
and how that's a wound healing response,

372
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,680
that it makes more roots
when you damage the roots.

373
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,120
That is definitely something a plant
will respond to and it will make more.

374
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:06,400
So it's more about like hoping you don't
damage it so much that the plant is

375
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,680
overwhelmed. I think like
roots are very sensitive,

376
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:12,280
so as soon as you take them out of the
pot, they're being exposed to light.

377
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,400
They weren't expecting, you're touching
them. A lot of those finer structures,

378
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,520
light the root hairs that
are so, so small and fragile,

379
00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:21,320
like they're only a single
cell thick. So like you're,

380
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,640
you're definitely destroying those and
it will definitely take the plant some

381
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,480
time to recover from that. I think it,

382
00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:30,640
it depends on the type of
plant that you're working with.

383
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:32,400
Well, specifically cannabis.

384
00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:33,620
Yeah.

385
00:22:33,620 --> 00:22:37,760
But there's gonna be a certain amount
of cannabis plants that are very sturdy.

386
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,480
Um, but there might also be more sensitive
plants that maybe don't grow as well.

387
00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:42,200
Oh, I get you.

388
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,360
Mean, you mean specific like what
we call strains or varieties,

389
00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:47,360
not different species entirely.

390
00:22:47,950 --> 00:22:51,680
Yeah. I mean I like, I, I grow a lot
of plants, so I would say species too,

391
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,400
but if we're talking
strictly about cannabis,

392
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,240
different cultivars are definitely going
to have, um, different vigor mm-hmm.

393
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,840
<affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And
so in a plant that has a lot of vigor,

394
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,600
you're probably okay to maybe manhandle
the, the pot a little bit more.

395
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:09,200
Um, but in a plant that's very
sensitive and doesn't grow that well,

396
00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:12,280
it's gonna be trickier. And I
think most of the time I would,

397
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,720
I would say that unless the
roots are dead or diseased,

398
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,280
I would try and keep them
intact as much as possible. Um,

399
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:25,440
you can break them up a little bit.
Like, um, like when you encounter,

400
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,880
particularly with hard walled pots,

401
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,240
sometimes you see the roots kind of
run around in a big circle. Yeah.

402
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:34,080
And so you can kind of try and loosen
them up so that they'll not break them,

403
00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:37,040
but like try and kind of untangle
them a little bit mm-hmm.

404
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,800
<affirmative> so they might go
somewhere else, fluff 'em a little.

405
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:38,940
Bit.

406
00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:42,240
Um, yeah, exactly. So that
would be okay. I mean, I,

407
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,040
I try and be as gentle as possible
with my root balls, but yeah,

408
00:23:45,470 --> 00:23:48,400
it's gonna happen regardless. I think
just the extent that it happens,

409
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:51,040
you might have to be careful
with some cultivars over others.

410
00:23:51,330 --> 00:23:55,160
Would it be fair to say that if we're
growing from seed and we have a tap root,

411
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,680
we definitely shouldn't mess with
that. Just, you know, if we're gonna,

412
00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:59,720
if we're gonna trim roots, trim, you know,

413
00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:02,640
secondary roots don't be
touching the tap root.

414
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:06,520
Yeah. I think that's probably fair. I,

415
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,920
I don't know enough about what happens
if the taproot gets super damaged,

416
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,880
whether it would produce a new taproot
and like how that developmentally would

417
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,440
occur. But I think it, like,

418
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,200
because it does serve this different
function than the other roots,

419
00:24:19,270 --> 00:24:22,680
that if you damage it too much,
it, it will cause changes.

420
00:24:22,740 --> 00:24:25,040
And I don't know whether those
changes would be good or bad.

421
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:28,680
And I think it would be fair
to intuit that, um, you know,

422
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,720
a damage to a taproot
would put, um, you know,

423
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:36,360
extra undue stress on the plant that
it would have to bounce back from.

424
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:40,960
And since we're all dealing with
a timed growing cycle that, uh,

425
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,520
none of us want, none of us want to
cause that slowdown and growth. So for,

426
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:48,640
for our, for our plant, um, we should
probably just stay away from it.

427
00:24:49,470 --> 00:24:52,160
Yeah. And I think this actually is a
good point that you're bringing up.

428
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,040
The whole timed thing,

429
00:24:53,420 --> 00:24:57,480
if you have like a mother plant that's
meant to be in vegetative growth for a

430
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,800
very long time and it'll never
get flipped over into flour, um,

431
00:25:01,940 --> 00:25:04,880
you might have different
choices to make. So for example,

432
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,080
it gets root bound because it's growing
so long and maybe you don't have a

433
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:08,520
bigger pot,

434
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,200
so you kind of have to do some pruning
above and then some pruning below.

435
00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:14,360
And like, those are choices you would
have to make with a, with a mother plant.

436
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:18,280
And how much or how little you
do of it would probably, again,

437
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,360
depend on the cultivar.

438
00:25:19,670 --> 00:25:23,320
When we're dealing with like
a plant that's about to go
into flour and it's only

439
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,320
got a certain amount of time,

440
00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:28,160
that's where you really don't want to
damage the roots too much because they

441
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:28,993
don't have enough time.

442
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:32,480
And all the time that it's going to
spend recovering is time that's not

443
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,440
necessarily gonna be put towards yield.
So in like a, in a yield situation,

444
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,440
absolutely. You definitely
don't wanna be, you know,

445
00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:41,800
making that plant suffer
too much. Awesome.

446
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,440
That's a great delineation. Thank you.

447
00:25:44,140 --> 00:25:48,040
So what biology determines
if the roots? Uh, well,

448
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,000
you know how like when you
go to transplant, when you,

449
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,000
when you pull it out of the pot, sometimes
it's got those like bright white,

450
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:57,800
like pearly white teeth, beautiful, um,

451
00:25:57,970 --> 00:26:01,440
roots and then, and then sometimes,
you know, be like, you know,

452
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,880
somewhere between a little more beige or
gray and then you've got roots that are

453
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,920
just like, you know, sad. Um, is,

454
00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:12,880
is it just our guesstimate that, um,

455
00:26:12,990 --> 00:26:16,720
that the white roots
are the most thriving?

456
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:21,440
Is that the ideal or are lots of
different roots of different colors

457
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,240
perhaps just different kinds of roots?

458
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,080
Because when I see the bright white
roots, I'm all like, hell yeah,

459
00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:31,520
I'm doing good. And, and when I see
the beige ones I'm like, oh, I'm not,

460
00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:35,960
I'm not, you know, treating this
pot right in some way, but like, I,

461
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,840
I really don't know. I just made that up.

462
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,700
Oh, what an interesting
question. Okay, so the roots,

463
00:26:42,810 --> 00:26:46,640
like all of the root is
important. I, I totally agree.

464
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,480
I love seeing those little white root
tips and in aeroponic sometimes they're a

465
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,640
little fuzzy cuz of those little,
little hairs. Oh, that's so cute. Yeah.

466
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:53,760
Yeah.

467
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,320
They're adorable. And they only occur
usually pretty close to the root tip, um,

468
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,640
because then they die off and
then the plant has other, like,

469
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,120
that's where you might see a lateral
root form or something passed there. Um,

470
00:27:04,180 --> 00:27:08,360
so the white tips are the actively
growing parts of the root,

471
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:10,640
which I think is why we love them
so much. And we're like, yay,

472
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,240
we've got a lot of white growing areas,

473
00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:15,840
but the rest of the root's still
super important and the browning isn't

474
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,680
necessarily because of, um, bad things.

475
00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:25,120
So oftentimes what will happen is
different chemistry happens at the tip of

476
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:28,920
the root compared to the, the older
root plants might put down, for example,

477
00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:32,200
more tannins or protective molecules that,

478
00:27:32,550 --> 00:27:34,200
that will change the color of the root.

479
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:36,720
But that's because the function
of the older root is different.

480
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,160
If that kind of makes some sense to you.
It does. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

481
00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:44,200
So when we see those kind of browner
roots at the, at the, you know,

482
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,360
closer to the stem,

483
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:49,680
that's just because the function has
started shifting and so the chemistry of

484
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,280
the root has started
shifting. Um, and like it,

485
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,440
it would be hard to pinpoint exactly
what is happening there for a given call

486
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,320
tomorrow, but, um, that's
generally what's happening. The,

487
00:27:58,380 --> 00:28:01,840
the ones where it's
scary is when there is a

488
00:28:03,060 --> 00:28:07,450
black root tip, I guess. Like if
that black black or dark brown or,

489
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:10,490
or those kind of colors are happening
at the very tip of the root,

490
00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:12,650
particularly in cannabis,
cuz it's root tips are white.

491
00:28:12,730 --> 00:28:16,010
I do work with some plants that have a
whole bunch of different colors happen

492
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:19,490
there. Um, but in cannabis
specifically the white tip, um,

493
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:22,650
if that's starting to brown or
anything like that, you might have, um,

494
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:26,170
a bacterial problem. So yeah, it just
depends on where it's happening, I guess.

495
00:28:26,170 --> 00:28:26,830
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

496
00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:29,170
So, so let's say not quite as, um,

497
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:32,490
bad as that black tipped pathogen version,

498
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:36,450
which sounds like a horror movie
to me. It is. Um, uh, is there,

499
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:41,450
is there any way for us to identify
roots during transplanting that

500
00:28:41,470 --> 00:28:46,410
we should shave off? Because, you know,
historically I would shave off, uh,

501
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:49,810
a bunch of those beige ones if I
saw them. And now I know that I,

502
00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:53,970
that was probably not well thought
because, uh, perhaps the, the,

503
00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:58,330
the plant is creating tannins in
those regions for, um, you know,

504
00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:01,730
safety and security reasons.
And I just like cut 'em off. Is,

505
00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:05,810
is there any way for us to
recognize roots that are,

506
00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:09,010
are a damaged part of the system
that should be shaved off?

507
00:29:10,130 --> 00:29:14,970
I think you can kind of think about
it. I guess the other part is, um,

508
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,370
there's a connection between the roots
and the chutes where like there's usually

509
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:22,850
certain roots that service
particular parts of the plant above.

510
00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:26,210
So it's really hard for us,

511
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,490
like looking in the pot as we're trying
to transplant to be able to determine

512
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,570
like, oh,

513
00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:35,650
this branch I cut off here are these
roots here so these ones can go mm-hmm.

514
00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,570
<affirmative>. So I think it is a bit
of guesswork. Um, but like if they're,

515
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:42,160
if they're like particularly dry looking,
like they're kind of shriveled, um,

516
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:45,600
and I, when a, when a root is like
full of water, they're kind of,

517
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,880
I dunno what the best word
to describe it would be,

518
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,120
but they're almost like plump, you
know, like they, they have, yeah, yeah.

519
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,880
They have like kind of a juicy look
and um, if they're unhealthy or dead,

520
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,560
oftentimes they'll be quite
thin, like a thread almost.

521
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:01,280
And so maybe like the thready ones you
can get rid of a little bit more easily.

522
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,000
But it is a lot of it's guess work.

523
00:30:03,340 --> 00:30:07,200
And I don't have a firm answer
for you as to which part would be,

524
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,480
I usually for myself, I, I look for as I,

525
00:30:10,580 --> 00:30:14,080
as we were just talking about kind of
like the browner root tips that might be

526
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,400
experiencing some bacterial effects
or something like that. But,

527
00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:20,680
but there can be good, good
bacterial effects too. So I,

528
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,040
I generally just try and
do my best guess. Right.

529
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:24,200
On.

530
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,400
I wish I had a better
answer <laugh>. Well.

531
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,880
No, that actually is pretty good because
what I took from it is that if you see

532
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,480
roots that are particularly emaciated
and they visually look thin and like

533
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,280
they're not carrying water that,
um, perhaps those can be removed.

534
00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:39,760
But generally speaking,

535
00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:44,680
we want everything in the root zone if
we don't see like a black or colorful tip

536
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,840
on it. So just, uh, give,

537
00:30:46,910 --> 00:30:50,720
give your roots a light fluff and
then go into the bigger pot and,

538
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:55,640
and just don't think you
have to touch the roots when

539
00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:56,760
you're transplanting.

540
00:30:56,810 --> 00:30:59,800
Don't assume that that's gonna be
part of your transplanting process.

541
00:31:00,350 --> 00:31:04,880
Only do it if, um, uh, if you
actually see visual problems.

542
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,160
I, I think that's a pretty
fair statement. Yeah, that's,

543
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,000
or at least that's what I do.

544
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,440
And I know lots of people have different
philosophies and what the best solution

545
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,480
is, but I think for getting your plants
to recover quickly from transplant,

546
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,360
like as little damage as possible
and as, as you say, like if,

547
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,880
if they look emaciated and
they're really sad looking roots,

548
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,240
like maybe trim those off, but
otherwise a little fluffle, do you.

549
00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:27,840
Right on. You know, one of the, one
of the interesting you said, you know,

550
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,920
everybody's got their own
philosophy and, and you know,

551
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,200
that's true and there are,

552
00:31:31,410 --> 00:31:36,200
there are different ways to have different
philosophies within actual science,

553
00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:38,320
but I think when it comes to cannabis,

554
00:31:38,530 --> 00:31:43,400
we've all been taught so much like
bro science by our mentors and

555
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,720
then from friends that, um, like if,

556
00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:51,520
if anybody should be decreasing
the number of justifiable

557
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,000
philosophies, it's,

558
00:31:53,030 --> 00:31:57,720
it's our community because
we have so much bad

559
00:31:57,830 --> 00:32:01,040
information to root out
of our community first.

560
00:32:01,660 --> 00:32:04,280
And then once all that
bad information is gone,

561
00:32:04,510 --> 00:32:09,120
then people can like find
different parts of, of, you know,

562
00:32:09,390 --> 00:32:11,480
that the remaining area to, you know,

563
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,080
count as their particular technique
or philosophy. But, um, I don't know.

564
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,600
I kind of, I kind of
think that that, that we,

565
00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:21,680
we haven't had access to
proper science scientists,

566
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:26,720
analytics and research folks for the
last, you know, 40 years that, um,

567
00:32:26,790 --> 00:32:27,623
that, you know,

568
00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:31,080
us all trying to kind of bring the
techniques all towards the center,

569
00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:35,640
which has actually got a scientific basis
is probably a pretty good set for all

570
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,473
of us.

571
00:32:36,620 --> 00:32:39,840
Oh, I agree. And I think,
um, I think that there's,

572
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,640
there's all these little habits that
we do that we don't really question and

573
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,080
those I, I like to question myself
Yeah. Too mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um,

574
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:47,120
and as you say there,

575
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,160
there's a lot of myths and legends about
exactly what type of thing you should

576
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,600
do at what time and
things like that. So I,

577
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,080
I think there's a lot of tried and true
methods that have worked for people for

578
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,080
a long time. Um, but I,

579
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,560
I do agree that bringing things around
to like a scientific perspective and not

580
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,960
just doing it because someone told you
to do it, um, which is kind of ironic,

581
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,840
can be giving advice about this, but
<laugh>, you know, like think about it,

582
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,673
you know. Yeah.

583
00:33:12,140 --> 00:33:16,160
So, um, I've got two more questions
before we go to the break. Now, in the,

584
00:33:16,180 --> 00:33:19,280
in the third set, we're gonna be
talking a lot about, you know,

585
00:33:19,420 --> 00:33:23,200
the care and feeding of a thriving root
structure so that we can have the best

586
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,000
one available. But, um, but uh,
before we go to the set break,

587
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,840
I want to talk about things that
degrade root, root growth and, uh, two,

588
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:35,960
two different categories
specifically. Are there particular

589
00:33:37,510 --> 00:33:39,220
amendments, inputs,

590
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,140
or fertilizers that can degrade
root growth that we should avoid

591
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,180
in cannabis plants?

592
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:47,730
Ooh, interesting. I think this is a,

593
00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:51,570
this is a more of a conversation
of mount or like what the state is,

594
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:53,130
cuz this can happen when
you're building a soil.

595
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:57,530
But it can also happen when you're
feeding fertilizer. Like if it's too,

596
00:33:58,090 --> 00:34:01,570
I guess quote unquote hot is the term
that we end up throwing around a little

597
00:34:01,570 --> 00:34:06,490
bit. Um, that can be a problem. And most
of the time I would argue it's because,

598
00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:08,250
um, particularly with fertilizers,

599
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,210
it's probably because of pH or something
like that where it's like they're just,

600
00:34:13,630 --> 00:34:17,370
the poor little root is getting flooded.
And I think it also happens more with,

601
00:34:17,470 --> 00:34:21,290
um, certain limiting nutrients like
nitrogen where the plant is less, um,

602
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,130
less able to close the
trap door. For example.

603
00:34:24,730 --> 00:34:27,770
Nitrogen is almost always like all the
trap doors are open all the time cuz

604
00:34:27,770 --> 00:34:28,603
there's not enough of it.

605
00:34:28,750 --> 00:34:32,810
So if you flood your root system
with too much nitrogen, it builds up.

606
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:37,250
But the way that plants convert what we
feed them to a usable form of nitrogen

607
00:34:37,250 --> 00:34:42,170
to them, all the intermediates between
fertilizer and usable nitrogen are toxic.

608
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:45,650
So they'll start killing the cells
off if there's too much of it. Um,

609
00:34:45,950 --> 00:34:50,730
and I think with soil, if
it's not well mixed, um,

610
00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:54,570
it can actually heat up in not just
hot as in like too much nutrients,

611
00:34:54,570 --> 00:34:57,170
but as in like temperature hot, uh,

612
00:34:57,190 --> 00:35:01,090
and obviously if your root zone
is like 60, 70, 80 degrees,

613
00:35:01,270 --> 00:35:05,050
you're gonna have a hard time surviving
in those kind of conditions too. So.

614
00:35:05,730 --> 00:35:08,770
I like your example
about if, if we have, uh,

615
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:13,330
too much fertilizer in a particular
place that it kind of, um,

616
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,850
jams the trapped doors open and,

617
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:21,290
and kind of force feeds the
plant to its detriment. Um,

618
00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:26,250
that's the same description that people,
um, use when describing, you know,

619
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,730
bottled salt nutrients about
how it force feeds the plant.

620
00:35:30,030 --> 00:35:34,970
Is that what's happening like at
the root level? Is that the, um,

621
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:39,200
the, the, you know, the
synthetically prepared, um,

622
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,000
fertilizer is essentially
breaking down the doors and,

623
00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:46,040
and going into the roots, um,

624
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:50,000
more nutrition than the root
zone would normally let in?

625
00:35:50,910 --> 00:35:54,160
Yeah, so especially with, I think
it's more dangerous with, um,

626
00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:58,840
with like synthetic or bottled
fertilizers because it's so concentrated,

627
00:35:59,540 --> 00:36:02,880
um, and it's in such an available form,
the plant doesn't have to do any work.

628
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,320
So it just does flood into
the root system. And as, um,

629
00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:07,760
as I was just mentioning it,

630
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:11,080
like it's not so much that
the nitrogen itself is toxic,

631
00:36:11,230 --> 00:36:13,560
it's that in order to be able to
turn it into something usable,

632
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:18,520
it goes through a toxic stage. So then
the roots can't, it's just too much.

633
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,800
They can't do that process quick enough
to avoid all the toxic effects of that

634
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,720
process. It actually can happen
with really rich composts too.

635
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:29,320
It, it just, I think at
least in my personal opinion,

636
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:33,560
it's harder to do because a lot of
those composts still needs some breaking

637
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,000
down, so it's a little bit slower.

638
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:39,440
But if you dump like pure compost at the
root zone of a particularly sensitive

639
00:36:39,450 --> 00:36:43,560
plant that isn't capable of ticking it
all up, it'll start to do similar things.

640
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:48,000
Yeah. Right on. Okay. And then, uh,
the last one is how about pesticides?

641
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,640
Because you know, sure we, we apply
the pesticides usually Foley or up top,

642
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:56,240
but we know that through,
you know, watering and the,

643
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,000
just the regular biology of the plants,

644
00:36:58,060 --> 00:37:02,680
either the pesticides will
drip down to the soil or

645
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:07,080
the plant will take it in and move
those chemicals. Um, oh, you know,

646
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,640
whether or not they be
synthetic or you know, organic,

647
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:12,520
they're gonna move them
around the plant. Um,

648
00:37:12,540 --> 00:37:17,200
are there any pesticides that we
would want to avoid because they too

649
00:37:17,350 --> 00:37:18,440
degrade root growth?

650
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,360
I mean I have a personal bias against
this cuz I don't generally like to use

651
00:37:23,610 --> 00:37:26,400
pesticides, <laugh>. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
I think that when you apply,

652
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,200
I guess it depends very much on the type
of pesticide you're referring to cuz a

653
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,280
lot of them have toxic effects if
they're in too high of a quantity and it

654
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,400
actually can be both the naturally
sourced ones and also the synthetically

655
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:41,120
prepared ones.

656
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,440
Like if you put too much mint oil on
your plants and turn the lights on,

657
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,560
like those, those poor
little guys are fried. Um,

658
00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:50,040
but with the pesticides like on,

659
00:37:50,070 --> 00:37:52,640
they're still able to take some
up through the foliar system.

660
00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:57,120
But depending on what mechanism the
pesticide is supposed to work by, um,

661
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,360
I don't know if it would
degrade the root particularly,

662
00:37:59,420 --> 00:38:02,520
but it might have the
ability to affect the growth.

663
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,800
Like if it's acting like
a growth regulator or um,

664
00:38:06,060 --> 00:38:09,200
or it's got a heavy metal component
to it or something like that,

665
00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:13,280
I'm sure that it can be taken out by the
plant and if it doesn't have a way to

666
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,400
deal with it and it's
toxic in higher quantities,

667
00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:19,400
that will probably happen in the plant
just like it would in any other system.

668
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:20,280
It's.

669
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,280
Interesting. We keep on coming
back to balance, you know,

670
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:23,680
it's like mm-hmm
<affirmative>, it's like hey,

671
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,960
you've got a lot of different options
for how to cultivate your plant,

672
00:38:28,620 --> 00:38:33,600
but whichever one you do do it
properly and not so much that you

673
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,680
knock your root system out of balance.

674
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:40,000
Yeah, for sure. And like I think
particularly with pesticides,

675
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,320
I don't know if I would be like,

676
00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:46,320
I'm not personally aware of any pesticide
that if you watered it in at the

677
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,800
amounts that you would spray it, it
would cause a huge amount of damage.

678
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,080
I think if you did that you'd probably
be killing it above as well. Um,

679
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,280
but it might affect the root community
too. Like if you're adding an,

680
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,360
an antimicrobial or an antifungal uh,

681
00:38:58,410 --> 00:39:00,920
agent to the top and then
it drips into the roots,

682
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,440
I think you'd be affecting the root
community more than you'd be affecting the

683
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,080
plant. Yeah. Which of course
does affect the plant eventually.

684
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:07,440
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I,

685
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,400
I have to be careful that myself
cuz one of my favorite, um, uh,

686
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:16,160
well I I I think of it as a pesticide,
but really it's, it's more about, um,

687
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,960
discouraging pests. Um,
I really like a, uh,

688
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,480
a garlic fermented plant juice
on, on the, uh, you know,

689
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,400
sprayed foliar during, uh,
during veg because, um,

690
00:39:29,740 --> 00:39:33,880
you know, it it, no, no, like aphids
is my big problem where I live.

691
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,560
They just don't wanna live
there. They don't like,

692
00:39:35,710 --> 00:39:39,040
they don't like the experience for,
you know, whatever smell pastries in.

693
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:40,520
And so, but, but if,

694
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,840
if I put too much of that onto the plant
and it soaks down into the substrate,

695
00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:49,600
well, garlic also has
antimicrobial, um, uh,

696
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,200
aspects of it and I, and I don't
want that happening in the root zone.

697
00:39:53,770 --> 00:39:57,280
Absolutely. Yep. I think I think it,
as you say, it's, it's about a balance.

698
00:39:57,460 --> 00:39:59,000
So if you, if you just have to be careful,

699
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,600
especially when you're trying to alter
something that's happening to the plant

700
00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:06,000
in a way that doesn't affect the
plant too. It just gets, I don't know,

701
00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:08,680
it's sometimes it's subtle. Yeah.

702
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:13,040
This is, well the, the more we get
into, uh, the cultivation specifics, uh,

703
00:40:13,060 --> 00:40:14,480
it is more and more subtle, right?

704
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,360
It's like when you first start growing
cannabis, it's like, oh, you know,

705
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,760
just put the seed in the ground and it
grows and then at the end you got some

706
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,560
weed, but then you like want more yield
and better weed and healthier plants

707
00:40:25,820 --> 00:40:30,680
and you wanna keep more plans and that's
where the subtleties come as as we get,

708
00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:34,920
you know, more and more in love with
this, uh, way to express ourselves.

709
00:40:35,060 --> 00:40:39,120
So right on. So let's go ahead and take
our first short break and be right back.

710
00:40:39,220 --> 00:40:43,160
You are listening to Shaping Fire
and my guest today is plant biologist

711
00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:45,280
Sarah Lane. And you know,

712
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,560
without these advertisers
shaping fire would not happen.

713
00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:51,320
So please support them and let them know
you heard about them on shaping fire.

714
00:40:54,020 --> 00:40:57,640
As cannabis regulations become more
demanding and consumers become more

715
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:58,180
educated,

716
00:40:58,180 --> 00:41:01,680
it is increasingly important to avoid
the use of chemical pesticides when

717
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:02,520
cultivating cannabis.

718
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:06,680
Beneficial insects have been used
for decades by the greenhouse,

719
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,720
vegetable and ornamental plant industry.

720
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:13,120
And today many cannabis cultivators
are moving from sprays and chemicals to

721
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,320
beneficial insects. COPT
has the beneficial insects,

722
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,600
mites and nematodes, microbials, sticky
cards and air distribution units.

723
00:41:22,260 --> 00:41:24,880
You need to partner with
nature to defend your garden.

724
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:29,560
Whether you manage acres of canopy or
have a simple grow tent in your home,

725
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,120
culprit is ready to help
answer your questions and
help you transition away from

726
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,160
chemical sprays towards
clean and natural solutions.

727
00:41:38,290 --> 00:41:39,960
Since 1967,

728
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,120
Pritt has assisted growers in identifying
pests and devising reliable solutions

729
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,520
while providing healthy insects and
mites that will protect your yield.

730
00:41:49,210 --> 00:41:50,480
Since the 1990s,

731
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,200
Pritt has been a leader in cannabis pest
and disease control worldwide and have

732
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,040
highly trained consultants to assist
you in Canada and the United States from

733
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,000
coast to coast with their global
network of grower support,

734
00:42:03,470 --> 00:42:07,400
COPT can help. Visit
copt.com, choose your country,

735
00:42:07,540 --> 00:42:09,000
and get detailed information.

736
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:13,560
That's copt K o p p e r t.com.

737
00:42:14,380 --> 00:42:17,960
For the most UpToDate cannabis related
biological control information,

738
00:42:18,220 --> 00:42:23,040
you can also check their Instagram
at copt Canada. You know,

739
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,080
getting away from pesticides is good
for health and good for business,

740
00:42:26,260 --> 00:42:30,280
and COPT is ready to help.
Visit copt.com today.

741
00:42:33,010 --> 00:42:36,880
There are so many seed banks nowadays
that you really have options in who to

742
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,080
choose. Not only that, if
you pick the wrong seed bank,

743
00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:42,200
you could be in for a really sketchy ride.

744
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:47,640
And that's only one of the reasons I
recommend gas lamp seeds to my friends and

745
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,480
listeners who are looking for a seed bank.

746
00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:53,240
You probably already know
gas lamp seeds as hemorrhage.

747
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:57,040
Genetics hem recently changed
their name to gas lamp seeds.

748
00:42:57,940 --> 00:43:02,720
Gas lamp seeds is not just another
Seed Bank Gas lamp is a female operated

749
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,320
boutique cannabis genetics provider that
only sells thoughtfully curated seeds

750
00:43:07,390 --> 00:43:09,400
from the top names in cannabis breeding.

751
00:43:09,870 --> 00:43:13,360
With over 60 breeders and over a
thousand strains to choose from,

752
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:15,440
you will certainly find
something you'll love.

753
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:18,480
Gas lamp Seeds has something for everyone.

754
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:21,360
With over 650 feminized strains,

755
00:43:21,610 --> 00:43:26,040
300 regular varieties and over
200 AutoFlow to choose from

756
00:43:26,650 --> 00:43:31,080
names you know you can trust. Like
compound genetics, Humboldt Seed Company,

757
00:43:31,530 --> 00:43:34,360
night Owl in-house, fast buds,

758
00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:39,360
nom automatics and ethos and we both
know that there are other seed banks who

759
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,880
will take your money but
have no customer service.

760
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,240
I invited gas lamp to advertise on
shaping fire after hearing so many good

761
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:48,680
stories about them From my friends,

762
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:53,280
they have a plus customer service
with lightning fast response times.

763
00:43:54,180 --> 00:43:55,013
In most cases,

764
00:43:55,140 --> 00:43:58,360
Helene and Caitlin will get your
order out the same day you place it.

765
00:43:58,950 --> 00:44:02,960
Most seed banks are simply not this
organized or interested in getting your

766
00:44:02,970 --> 00:44:04,160
seeds to you so fast,

767
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:08,920
but gas lamp seeds cares you even
get free seeds with every order.

768
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:11,400
Helene and Caitlin get it.

769
00:44:11,710 --> 00:44:14,360
They have been in the cannabis
growing scene for over a decade.

770
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:16,400
Want some extra freebies?

771
00:44:17,060 --> 00:44:22,040
Use the code shaping fire all one word
at checkout and they will give you an

772
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,080
additional set of gas
lamp provided freebies.

773
00:44:25,340 --> 00:44:27,720
That's an extra $30 in free seeds.

774
00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:33,760
Buy seeds from good folks who will send
you great seeds reliably every time.

775
00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:37,440
Visit gas lamp seeds.com today.

776
00:44:37,940 --> 00:44:39,840
That's gas lamp seeds.

777
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:45,900
You've heard me talk about
the award-winning cannabis
seeds that come from the

778
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:48,580
analytical breeding program
of Seth and Eric Crawford,

779
00:44:48,580 --> 00:44:51,500
who founded Oregon's CBD seeds. In fact,

780
00:44:51,850 --> 00:44:56,620
Seth was a guest on shaping fire in
2020 to talk about triplo genetics.

781
00:44:57,490 --> 00:45:02,380
Seth and Eric are now releasing high
THC seeds for home growers and farms as

782
00:45:02,490 --> 00:45:06,260
grow the revolution seeds@gtrseeds.com.

783
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:11,860
Their high THC seeds are extraordinary
in that they will start to flower

784
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,980
at 16 and a half hours of daylight instead
of the typical 14 and a half hours of

785
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:19,460
daylight. That means in most regions,

786
00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:24,100
your plants will start to flower outdoors
in the middle of July instead of the

787
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:24,940
middle of August,

788
00:45:25,110 --> 00:45:29,700
which means these photo period plants
finish in September and not October

789
00:45:30,090 --> 00:45:32,620
totally upending the
photo period seed market.

790
00:45:33,490 --> 00:45:38,460
Seth and Eric took their prized early
flowering c BG line and bred it to some

791
00:45:38,460 --> 00:45:42,580
of the most desired verified genetics
out there, including sour diesel,

792
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:46,460
triangle Kush, wedding cake,
chem dogs, Skittles and others.

793
00:45:46,990 --> 00:45:51,660
These crosses all express powerful
photo period terpene profiles and THC

794
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,780
giving you a great high
GTR Seeds has a new T HCV

795
00:45:56,780 --> 00:46:01,580
line with plants like Double Durban
and Gigantor that boast one to one th

796
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,500
HC to T hcv. And people want that thcv

797
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,580
GTR seeds are very consistent,

798
00:46:09,090 --> 00:46:13,740
true growing in-bred f1 s from
stabilized in-bred parent lines.

799
00:46:14,190 --> 00:46:18,580
These seeds are nearly homogenous and
the plants should all grow the same.

800
00:46:18,830 --> 00:46:23,500
There is only one phenotype in
every pack available as Diploids and

801
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:27,020
Triploids. Seth and Eric's
company is still family owned,

802
00:46:27,130 --> 00:46:31,220
patient and employee-centric and partially
powered by their two acres of solar

803
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:36,140
panels. Everyone can purchase these seeds
and the entire catalog of Oregon CBD

804
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:39,220
seeds@gtrseeds.com.

805
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,580
Go to gtr seeds.com today and choose
something revolutionary for your next

806
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,540
indoor or outdoor run. Welcome back.
You are listening to Shaping Fire.

807
00:46:48,740 --> 00:46:53,340
I am your host Chango Los and my guest
today is Plant biologist Sarah Lane.

808
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,660
So during the first set, we uh,

809
00:46:55,660 --> 00:46:59,780
looked at what exactly a route
is and the jobs that it does,

810
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:04,620
and some things we want to avoid if
we want a thriving, uh, you know,

811
00:47:04,690 --> 00:47:05,820
root zone. Um,

812
00:47:05,970 --> 00:47:09,500
here in the second set we're gonna
talk more about the actual structure,

813
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:13,580
which is what, what the topic
that was the genesis of, uh,

814
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:19,020
me asking Sarah to come back right away
because during the exudate show, um,

815
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,820
she got into this
explanation about how um,

816
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,020
the root structure is
different in, uh, uh,

817
00:47:27,210 --> 00:47:31,000
coco choir and, um, Pete, um,

818
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:33,920
non soil or soilless uh,

819
00:47:34,290 --> 00:47:39,280
containers than it is in living soil.
And ugh, I wanted to go down that path.

820
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:41,120
Um, but we just didn't have time then.

821
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,760
And so here we are today and we're
gonna go down that in a lot of different

822
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,800
ways. So, so Sarah, let, let's
start at the top. When we,

823
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,600
when we use the phrase root structure,
what specifically do we mean?

824
00:47:54,980 --> 00:47:58,260
I think like when I think of root
structure, I think about, um,

825
00:47:58,760 --> 00:47:59,820
the root ball itself,

826
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,660
the different components that make up
the root structure and how that differs

827
00:48:03,660 --> 00:48:07,460
between plants, whether that be
cultivar or species or whatever.

828
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,100
And that's usually like how the
different components might be arranged,

829
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:13,340
whether they're present or absent. Um,

830
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,700
all of that would be something
I would call root structure.

831
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:18,980
So in a typical cannabis plant,

832
00:48:19,050 --> 00:48:23,300
what would we expect the root structure
to look like in soil? Like is there,

833
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,580
you know, since, since in nature
it's in soil, I'll say that the,

834
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,700
the soil root structure is the air
quote's more natural one just for the,

835
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:36,420
for the time being, just in case lemme
get away with that. And, uh, and so what,

836
00:48:36,420 --> 00:48:41,420
what would we expect root structure to
look like in soil, in the ground outside?

837
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:48,160
Okay. Um, well, I mean we can stick
with our beautiful cannabis plant.

838
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:53,440
A nice big tap. Root goes straight down
as far as it possibly can grow. Um,

839
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,240
you can think of that like the vertical
axis, I guess. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

840
00:48:56,380 --> 00:48:56,620
Um,

841
00:48:56,620 --> 00:49:00,920
and then from that all these lateral
roots start to grow that kind of stick out

842
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,240
from the main root and they
go sideways. So they're,

843
00:49:03,310 --> 00:49:08,200
they're trying to like increase the
different places that the root can access.

844
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:11,520
And then from there there might be even
more little branches and more little

845
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,760
branches. And then at the
growing tip of the root,

846
00:49:14,830 --> 00:49:18,560
there's a little tiny zone there where
there's a bunch of little root hairs that

847
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:23,400
grow and they don't live for a hugely
long time cuz that root is still moving

848
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,200
places and they, so maybe like
a couple weeks. Um, but they're,

849
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,600
they're so tiny we can barely see them
with a naked eye and we definitely can't

850
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,800
see how thin they are cuz they're
a single cell wide. Um, but they,

851
00:49:33,870 --> 00:49:36,120
they would be just in like a
little maybe, I don't know,

852
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,200
a couple centimeters long zone right
there and they would kind of bush out into

853
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:41,360
the, into the soil.

854
00:49:42,430 --> 00:49:46,440
When I see diagrams of root
structures of different, um,

855
00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:50,520
types of plants, um, some
of them go, you know,

856
00:49:50,830 --> 00:49:55,800
quickly really deep and some
stay at the top and then some

857
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:59,600
will throw down like a tap
root and then, and then,

858
00:49:59,820 --> 00:50:02,120
and then the rest will stay
at the stop at the top.

859
00:50:02,830 --> 00:50:06,640
What is the architecture of the, the,

860
00:50:06,780 --> 00:50:09,720
the root system in an adult plant? Are,

861
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:14,840
are they mostly up top where they can
support the plant from falling over

862
00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:19,960
and, you know, get, uh, rainwater
or with a cannabis plant,

863
00:50:20,020 --> 00:50:23,640
are they all making this
mad dash for depth, uh,

864
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:27,720
in order to create stability
that way and get, you know,

865
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:29,840
water that is in the soil or aquifer?

866
00:50:32,090 --> 00:50:35,830
Um, in, in cannabis plants, as we
talked about this a little bit earlier,

867
00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:40,030
like if it's a clone it might not get
as deep if we're talking about like in

868
00:50:40,030 --> 00:50:41,030
soil mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh,

869
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:45,390
because it doesn't necessarily have that
deep tap root to go driving down to the

870
00:50:45,390 --> 00:50:50,230
bottom. But in most cases like that tap
root, it also anchors the plant as well.

871
00:50:50,290 --> 00:50:51,123
Cuz I mean,

872
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:54,070
I don't know if you've ever tried to
get up some of these weird little red

873
00:50:54,370 --> 00:50:58,030
carrot type weeds in your garden.
You have to really yank on them,

874
00:50:58,260 --> 00:51:02,070
like that tap root's deep and that plant
is not falling over for the most part.

875
00:51:02,090 --> 00:51:04,270
So it does provide a lot of anchorage. Um,

876
00:51:04,570 --> 00:51:09,190
but I think like what we're talking
about diagrams and things like that,

877
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:13,950
that we find, like, I think most
of the time it depends on species.

878
00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:15,310
So for cannabis it's,

879
00:51:15,380 --> 00:51:19,270
it's mostly gonna be on a tap root system
that's going straight down and then

880
00:51:19,300 --> 00:51:22,150
it's there for water, for anchorage,
for all these different things.

881
00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:26,030
But then all the lateral roots provide
support for whatever that purpose is.

882
00:51:26,130 --> 00:51:30,590
So it's kind of digging in there,
but also increasing absorption.

883
00:51:30,930 --> 00:51:34,470
The deeper the tap root to the more likely
it is to survive things like drought

884
00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:37,390
because it can access
that groundwater layer.

885
00:51:37,820 --> 00:51:39,670
Whereas we find in a lot of plants,

886
00:51:39,810 --> 00:51:41,510
and here I'm not talking
about cannabis specifically,

887
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:43,390
but a lot of plants
that make surface roots,

888
00:51:43,820 --> 00:51:48,150
it's actually a very nutrient rich layer
of the soil where most of the organic

889
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:52,590
matter sits. So a lot of the lateral
roots above are meant to get nutrients,

890
00:51:52,590 --> 00:51:53,070
specifically.

891
00:51:53,070 --> 00:51:55,590
They're not particularly good at getting
water because there's not a lot of

892
00:51:55,590 --> 00:51:56,590
water usually in that layer.

893
00:51:57,490 --> 00:52:01,430
So earlier you mentioned that, um, in, um,

894
00:52:02,010 --> 00:52:03,790
in container plants, uh,

895
00:52:03,790 --> 00:52:08,550
clearly the cannabis taproot cannot go
as deeply because it's gonna be stopped

896
00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:11,670
by the bottom of the pot. Um,

897
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:16,510
other than a taproot that
doesn't go as deeply as it may,

898
00:52:16,510 --> 00:52:20,990
like what other root structure
changes might we, uh,

899
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:22,150
find in the,

900
00:52:22,330 --> 00:52:27,030
the lateral and other root structures
when they are in a container versus when

901
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:28,590
they are free flowing in the ground?

902
00:52:29,790 --> 00:52:32,510
I think mostly, I, I think
I would have to say length.

903
00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:35,350
I haven't really dissected
a, a like, you know,

904
00:52:35,350 --> 00:52:39,830
removed all the soil to have a look,
but I would guess that because, um,

905
00:52:40,330 --> 00:52:44,150
and I guess it does depend on the type
of pot too. So for example, we use, uh,

906
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:47,990
cloth sided pots and they're meant to
be sort of like self pruning so we don't

907
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:49,670
get like running roots
mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

908
00:52:49,730 --> 00:52:53,150
and so for us we would end up probably
seeing more, and I'm speculating here,

909
00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:57,510
but I would expect to see more shorter
lateral roots that are coming off that

910
00:52:57,510 --> 00:53:00,590
main tap root. Um, and, and they
probably wouldn't grow as much,

911
00:53:00,610 --> 00:53:01,870
but there's probably more branching.

912
00:53:01,870 --> 00:53:05,670
And by branching I mean like lateral and
then these little roots branch off of

913
00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:08,710
that and some more roots branch off of
that kind of exactly the way a tree looks

914
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:10,190
on top. Mm-hmm. But below
mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

915
00:53:10,850 --> 00:53:12,190
So what happens, what, you know,

916
00:53:12,190 --> 00:53:16,630
what are the effects of compaction on
the root structure? Um, you know, we,

917
00:53:16,650 --> 00:53:19,670
we talked in the first set about, um,

918
00:53:20,090 --> 00:53:23,710
how in a, um, uh,

919
00:53:23,790 --> 00:53:28,480
a pot bo bound plant, how the,
the roots run along the sides.

920
00:53:29,180 --> 00:53:33,880
But I would think that as a plant
is getting more and more root bound,

921
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:38,040
that there are other, uh, changes, uh,

922
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,560
that happen in the root zone
to deal with that systemically.

923
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,730
Yeah. I mean, when we, when we
look at like root bound plants,

924
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,970
like oftentimes there's just not
that much soil. And, and I mean,

925
00:53:50,090 --> 00:53:53,930
I would expect the first thing would be
just like the soil properties change,

926
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:58,250
so you don't have as much water
retention. Um, there's not as many, um,

927
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,010
like when we talk about things like
cataract exchange and stuff like that,

928
00:54:01,010 --> 00:54:03,130
there might not be as many
sites for that to happen.

929
00:54:03,230 --> 00:54:07,530
So that's basically the way that soil
acts, like a little kitchen cupboard,

930
00:54:07,550 --> 00:54:08,530
if you will. Um,

931
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:12,690
and there would be less kitchen
cupboards available for nutrients to be

932
00:54:12,890 --> 00:54:17,050
retrieved from. And so most of the time
when we have a super root bound plant,

933
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:22,050
it's just that there's not enough physical
space and soil to support that much

934
00:54:22,140 --> 00:54:24,290
plant. Does that make
sense? Yeah. I found that.

935
00:54:24,290 --> 00:54:27,690
So it's not so much that the root
architecture itself may be changing,

936
00:54:27,970 --> 00:54:29,570
although it might, it's more just,

937
00:54:29,710 --> 00:54:33,490
it just can't support that
much root in that little space.

938
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,700
And so then the systems will
start happening, happening, um,

939
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,500
in efficiently and it'll essentially
just fall out of balance and your plant

940
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:44,500
will get sick in one of many ways.

941
00:54:45,330 --> 00:54:47,860
Yeah. And it's usually like, I
think the first thing I notice when,

942
00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:49,940
when plants are too root bound is like,

943
00:54:49,940 --> 00:54:54,380
it's just hard to keep them fed and
watered. You have to water more often. Um,

944
00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:55,050
<laugh>,

945
00:54:55,050 --> 00:54:57,820
I've had a couple of plants that have
actually almost pushed through the bottom

946
00:54:57,820 --> 00:55:00,820
cause I haven't had a chance
to get to them. So the, like,

947
00:55:00,820 --> 00:55:04,900
they just kind of pushed the
pot out of the way. Um, but it,

948
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,620
it can get pretty bad and then you end
up with a root ball that just can't

949
00:55:08,620 --> 00:55:11,780
sustain the amount of shoot growth
that you have. Um, and then,

950
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,420
and then the plant just ends
up getting super deficient.

951
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,580
And if we wanted to relate
that to something like yield,

952
00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:20,460
I think your yield would be severely
impacted cuz they just can't put that much

953
00:55:20,740 --> 00:55:22,220
nutrients towards the rest of the plant.

954
00:55:22,690 --> 00:55:26,700
It's always a bad scene when you find
the plant that you forgot to transplant

955
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,300
and it's got all the roots that are coming
out of the holes, the drainage holes,

956
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,980
and you're like, oh baby, I'm so sorry
I for, I didn't see you over there.

957
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:37,140
And, and you know,

958
00:55:37,140 --> 00:55:40,740
sometimes you get lucky and it was
sitting on something else and so now it's,

959
00:55:40,810 --> 00:55:44,500
it's rerouted itself in like the pot
under it or something, you know? Yeah.

960
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:47,500
Which is, which is always
interesting. But yeah, that's, that's,

961
00:55:47,500 --> 00:55:50,540
that's a bad day at the office when you
find that you've neglected a plant that

962
00:55:50,540 --> 00:55:53,980
bad cuz you know you're gonna have to
cut those roots and that's not gonna be a

963
00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:54,813
good day.

964
00:55:54,970 --> 00:55:58,060
I've gotten pretty adept at pulling
those roots out of holes. Uhhuh,

965
00:55:58,100 --> 00:56:01,460
<affirmative> partly cuz of the way
that I deal with my research plants. Um,

966
00:56:01,660 --> 00:56:03,740
I need them to kind of do that. So, um,

967
00:56:03,850 --> 00:56:07,420
there's ways to untangle
them very carefully, but, uh,

968
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,660
but that does just go to show you how
efficient plants are at seeking out

969
00:56:10,820 --> 00:56:13,620
nutrients. Like nothing
in this pot, out we go,

970
00:56:13,630 --> 00:56:15,660
we're going somewhere and
we don't know where it is,

971
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,060
but it will find something
somewhere to eat.

972
00:56:18,330 --> 00:56:20,940
Yeah. And you know, that's a
really good point, you know, for,

973
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,160
for folks who are home
growers who are, you know,

974
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,000
growing two or four or 15
plants where every plant is

975
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,440
important because they need to
yield their medicine for themselves,

976
00:56:34,260 --> 00:56:38,360
um, you'll have a lot more
time to kind of, you know,

977
00:56:38,380 --> 00:56:41,640
wiggle the plant back
and forth and, you know,

978
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:47,240
gingerly pull them up and try to
save as many of those roots versus,

979
00:56:47,940 --> 00:56:51,240
you know, in a, in a scaled
commercial or, you know,

980
00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,760
medical environment where
you've got, you know,

981
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,840
a hundred or or a thousand plants where,
you know, you're just gonna pull your,

982
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,800
your knife and go, you know, cut, cut,
cut and pull it out and transplant it.

983
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:06,760
And, you know, that's a, that's a very
different kind of, of, of cultivation.

984
00:57:06,860 --> 00:57:09,240
But it is interesting how, um,

985
00:57:10,180 --> 00:57:15,160
the same problem has to be solved
different ways depending on the variety

986
00:57:15,260 --> 00:57:16,560
of cultivation that you're doing.

987
00:57:17,170 --> 00:57:21,560
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's,
it's something to mention too, like,

988
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:24,960
like if you have the time to try and
save the roots, I think it, it helps.

989
00:57:25,020 --> 00:57:29,480
We were talking earlier about like how
much root to lose and that kind of stuff,

990
00:57:29,620 --> 00:57:32,880
but the actively growing roots are
really the ones you want to try and save.

991
00:57:32,900 --> 00:57:36,080
So I do my absolute best cuz those little
runners are probably the most active

992
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,040
as they're trying to escape my
poor little pot situation, <laugh>.

993
00:57:41,460 --> 00:57:46,200
So, so this next question is the one
that, um, that was, that was spun off in,

994
00:57:46,260 --> 00:57:50,480
in episode 99 and the exudate. So, which
is kind of the seed for this episode,

995
00:57:50,490 --> 00:57:52,400
which is, um, you know,

996
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:57,640
Coco and Pete cultivation systems
have become like really popular

997
00:57:57,910 --> 00:58:02,760
over the years and I, and I think still
increasingly so, and you know, in the,

998
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,240
in the beginning folks were
using Cocoa Qu and Pete to

999
00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:11,520
supplement what we generally
think of as living soil as a,

1000
00:58:11,540 --> 00:58:14,960
as an aeration and water
retention solution.

1001
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:19,880
But nowadays people are just using cocoa
and peat and they're not even using,

1002
00:58:20,580 --> 00:58:24,120
um, you know, the living soil
aspect. And then they are,

1003
00:58:24,510 --> 00:58:29,240
then they are adding nutrition into
these cocoa and peat pots with, um,

1004
00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:33,240
you know, what, whatever, whatever
kind of fertilizer they choose from,

1005
00:58:33,310 --> 00:58:37,920
from compost tees to, to amendments,
to, to bottled stuff. So there's,

1006
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,480
there's a lot of options with these,
these systems. And you had mentioned that,

1007
00:58:42,620 --> 00:58:42,840
uh,

1008
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,800
root structure is going to be
different in these types of pots and,

1009
00:58:47,860 --> 00:58:50,640
and I'm super curious to hear
what the differences are.

1010
00:58:52,110 --> 00:58:54,390
I guess the, I guess when
we think of root structure,

1011
00:58:54,770 --> 00:58:57,590
we kind of have to back up and realize
that the root structure's kind of

1012
00:58:57,590 --> 00:59:00,270
dictated by the environment
and the needs of the plant.

1013
00:59:01,050 --> 00:59:04,910
So like when we talk about whether plants
make a lot of lateral roots or not,

1014
00:59:04,980 --> 00:59:06,510
like they're gonna make lateral roots,

1015
00:59:06,530 --> 00:59:10,910
but how many depends on things
like nutrient availability or

1016
00:59:11,130 --> 00:59:13,510
oxygen presence absence,
that kind of thing.

1017
00:59:14,330 --> 00:59:18,910
So in a soil that's very
mixed up, there's like,

1018
00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:20,630
when you mix a good soil, like you,

1019
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:22,930
it's gonna gonna be quote
unquote homogenous to your eyes.

1020
00:59:22,930 --> 00:59:25,310
You're gonna make sure that like
the pearl lights in there evenly,

1021
00:59:25,310 --> 00:59:27,000
there's not a big clump and
stuff like that. But on a,

1022
00:59:27,220 --> 00:59:31,160
on like a microscopic level, it's
not really, there's little pockets.

1023
00:59:31,180 --> 00:59:35,720
And so that's gonna influence the plant
because it has to move towards little

1024
00:59:35,850 --> 00:59:37,880
areas of nutrients. Um,

1025
00:59:37,980 --> 00:59:42,520
in a system where the nutrients are
actually homogenous when we're watering it

1026
00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:45,680
in and we're not necessarily
providing any other source.

1027
00:59:46,180 --> 00:59:49,800
The plant's still gonna be moving
around in there, um, but it might,

1028
00:59:49,940 --> 00:59:52,880
it might need to act
differently, um, because it,

1029
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,520
there d doesn't have that many different
pockets in the, in the soil system.

1030
00:59:58,300 --> 01:00:01,400
And I think hydroponics is the most
extreme of that because we can,

1031
01:00:01,460 --> 01:00:05,200
not only can we really see the roots
to look at them, um, but there,

1032
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:08,280
there's just one place that
all of these nutrients are,

1033
01:00:08,340 --> 01:00:09,560
and they're evenly available.

1034
01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:14,480
So I would expect to see less branching
and less root hairs and that kind of

1035
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:15,060
thing.

1036
01:00:15,060 --> 01:00:18,040
That's interesting. So one of the, uh,

1037
01:00:18,060 --> 01:00:21,520
one of the things we talk about in the
show a lot is how in a, in a, in a,

1038
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:26,400
in a living soil with a good
fungal environment that the

1039
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,040
fungus is, um, you know,

1040
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,560
creating channels for the water
to seep through and for the,

1041
01:00:33,020 --> 01:00:35,120
the roots to find their ways through.

1042
01:00:35,780 --> 01:00:40,280
And it would be my expectation
that in cocoa and Pete systems,

1043
01:00:40,980 --> 01:00:42,960
um, because there is less

1044
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:47,520
tiny particles of soil to fill in,

1045
01:00:47,540 --> 01:00:52,280
in between that a cocoa and Pete
system will have a lot more air

1046
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:56,760
pockets and, and, well, I'm not,
don't want to dwell on the air part,

1047
01:00:56,780 --> 01:01:00,720
but more like, um, paths,
passages for the roots to follow.

1048
01:01:01,620 --> 01:01:06,440
Do, do you find that in cocoa and
Pete systems, the, the roots are, are,

1049
01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:11,440
are growing more willy-nilly because
they have so many more options instead of

1050
01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:15,280
the fewer options that you would
find in a living soil system?

1051
01:01:16,660 --> 01:01:20,700
I guess it depends. Like, I think, I
think the more complex the soil system is,

1052
01:01:20,700 --> 01:01:24,020
the more complex the roots become
because they're just, uh, like I said,

1053
01:01:24,020 --> 01:01:26,260
they have to go adventuring for
all of the things that they need.

1054
01:01:26,260 --> 01:01:30,980
And it's not all immediately readily
available. I feel like with aeration,

1055
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,860
for example, or like pockets like there,

1056
01:01:33,860 --> 01:01:37,380
there's probably other things and
whether you'd notice it if you just like

1057
01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:41,380
pulled the two root systems up, like
you might notice it if you count up the,

1058
01:01:41,380 --> 01:01:45,260
all the lateral roots or if you, you
know, measure the thickness of the root,

1059
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:46,940
it might might change, but it,

1060
01:01:47,140 --> 01:01:50,660
I think it would be a lot of chemistry
would change too. Does that make sense?

1061
01:01:50,660 --> 01:01:51,420
Yeah, for sure. Does that answer.

1062
01:01:51,420 --> 01:01:54,460
Your question? Yeah,
yeah. Um, and then, um,

1063
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:59,060
I'm gonna ask you a similar question, but
with two different, uh, varieties. Uh,

1064
01:01:59,060 --> 01:02:03,700
first will be, you know, a hydroponic
version where there is, um,

1065
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:08,140
you know, there is some kind of cistern
of water and you've got nutrients there

1066
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:13,060
and the roots are growing
down into it. And, uh,

1067
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:17,260
I guess this would work for an
earth box too, where the, the,

1068
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:21,000
the roots are sitting in the,

1069
01:02:21,340 --> 01:02:24,120
the nutrient water. Um,

1070
01:02:24,380 --> 01:02:29,000
how will the roots grow differently
in that kind of environment where they

1071
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,200
really don't have to travel at
all to, um, access the nutrition?

1072
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,960
I think they'd probably grow down
more. Um, the one thing that I've,

1073
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,680
I've noticed the most, at
least in my own research, um,

1074
01:02:42,780 --> 01:02:46,800
is that the root hairs are missing
Mm. Because they're so fragile.

1075
01:02:47,660 --> 01:02:48,600
Um, and there might,

1076
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,800
like if you took out a microscope and
did a little cross section and did some

1077
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:52,480
fancy staining,

1078
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:57,360
you might still see like the start
of a root hair or the types of

1079
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:58,800
cells that could form a root hair.

1080
01:02:59,140 --> 01:03:02,520
But when you actually look at roots
that are grown in hydroponics,

1081
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,600
especially because there's a
current and stuff like that,

1082
01:03:04,660 --> 01:03:09,480
it doesn't really permit those super
fragile structures from showing up.

1083
01:03:09,620 --> 01:03:13,400
At least not macroscopically. Like
I can't see them with my eyes. Um,

1084
01:03:13,550 --> 01:03:15,640
whereas like other systems,

1085
01:03:16,310 --> 01:03:19,280
they probably would be present because
they're not being disturbed as much.

1086
01:03:19,860 --> 01:03:24,000
Do you think that that impacts the
thriving nature of the plant or is it just

1087
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,160
like equal and different?

1088
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:31,280
I, I lean towards equal and different
because the purpose of a root hair is to

1089
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:32,280
increase absorption.

1090
01:03:32,420 --> 01:03:36,360
And that's really important when we
talk about like that super complex soil

1091
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,840
mixture, we were just discussing, um,

1092
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,240
where you might need the extra
absorption because that little pocket of,

1093
01:03:42,540 --> 01:03:45,200
of minerals is just a
little too far away for the,

1094
01:03:45,260 --> 01:03:49,120
the chemistry of the main route to help
and just needs like a little finger to

1095
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:50,920
go in there and collect it
mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

1096
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,640
whereas in an a hydroponic system, you're
readily changing the nutrients over,

1097
01:03:55,740 --> 01:03:57,680
you're readily providing
it with what it needs,

1098
01:03:57,860 --> 01:03:59,800
and it doesn't necessarily like it.

1099
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,280
A a regular root tip might be totally
fine for absorbing what's there. Mm-hmm.

1100
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,200
<Affirmative> I follow. So the last
one I want to talk about is aeroponics.

1101
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:10,000
And um, you know,

1102
01:04:10,410 --> 01:04:14,680
there are certainly not very many of us
cultivating cannabis who have got adult

1103
01:04:14,700 --> 01:04:18,640
plants that are using
aeroponics. Um, however, um,

1104
01:04:18,750 --> 01:04:22,360
it's incredibly common for
folks to use aeroponic, uh,

1105
01:04:22,740 --> 01:04:25,880
cls at the beginning
of a plant's life. Um,

1106
01:04:26,380 --> 01:04:29,040
so my question again is, uh, um,

1107
01:04:29,230 --> 01:04:34,120
when the plant is hanging
but it is suspended and

1108
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,560
it's not in, it's not, you know,
actually submerged in the nutrient water,

1109
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:42,520
it's actually being
sprayed with fine mist. Um,

1110
01:04:42,620 --> 01:04:44,920
how does that impact the root structure?

1111
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,100
Um, like for me, I use even finer mist.

1112
01:04:50,100 --> 01:04:53,900
I use fog and I notice, uh,
quite a big difference. Like,

1113
01:04:53,970 --> 01:04:57,540
like the plant just doesn't
need to go down as much. Um,

1114
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:02,300
and I don't have empirical evidence that
it's like, particularly long or short,

1115
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:06,620
but for, for my plants in aeroponics, I
find they kind of, they're pretty bushy.

1116
01:05:06,620 --> 01:05:08,740
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and
those root hairs are retained.

1117
01:05:08,740 --> 01:05:12,500
That's the big thing that I noticed
there because the fog is so gentle,

1118
01:05:12,610 --> 01:05:15,380
it's just like a little air current
and you can actually see the,

1119
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:17,240
the root hairs come out,

1120
01:05:17,300 --> 01:05:21,080
but they also last longer cuz they're
not getting moved around in the soil or

1121
01:05:21,110 --> 01:05:24,520
like used up. Um, and so they
do seem to increase absorption.

1122
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,680
It kind of makes sense when you're
dealing with a very gentle fog or mist

1123
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:29,640
because it, it's not,

1124
01:05:29,950 --> 01:05:34,200
it's not as evenly distributed as a
liquid would be cuz it's relying on air

1125
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,320
currents to, for delivery.
Um, so I think the root hairs,

1126
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:41,480
they tend to stay longer and they're more
important in, um, in aeroponics there.

1127
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:45,880
I think if you're spraying like, cuz
you know, like the grocery store,

1128
01:05:45,910 --> 01:05:50,280
high pressure aeroponics that keeps
your lettuce wet. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

1129
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:51,070
<affirmative>, um,

1130
01:05:51,070 --> 01:05:54,920
that mist might be enough to change the
root hairs depending on how fragile they

1131
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,880
are and what, you know, again,
cultivar species, whatever, um,

1132
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,000
differences you want to talk about, um,

1133
01:06:00,060 --> 01:06:03,840
if it's being spread directly at the
root, you might see less root hairs. Um,

1134
01:06:03,980 --> 01:06:07,280
but if it's being sprayed into the chamber
to increase the humidity, you might,

1135
01:06:07,300 --> 01:06:09,520
you might again see more root hairs. Um,

1136
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,720
something that's a big notice
noticeable difference for me.

1137
01:06:11,830 --> 01:06:13,440
Yeah. Right. On the, the, the,

1138
01:06:13,540 --> 01:06:18,000
the root structure in fog p cannabis
plants is really incredible.

1139
01:06:18,380 --> 01:06:21,760
Um, it, it really looks unlike
anything else. And, and you're right,

1140
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,040
it does look like, you know, this, this,

1141
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:29,000
this more compact shrubbery
with, with all the, these fine,

1142
01:06:29,500 --> 01:06:34,280
uh, fine hairs. Um, it, it does look like
its own animal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

1143
01:06:34,660 --> 01:06:37,920
do you have any suggestions
for folks who are,

1144
01:06:38,140 --> 01:06:41,960
are starting their
clones in an arrow cloer,

1145
01:06:42,100 --> 01:06:45,520
but their plan is to move them into a,

1146
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,560
a cocoa peat or a, um,

1147
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,960
a living soil system because the,

1148
01:06:54,580 --> 01:06:59,200
the root system that they
have when they're being moved
is not designed for that

1149
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,120
environment. Maybe you'll tell
me it doesn't matter, but, uh,

1150
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:03,640
I want to address that one way or another.

1151
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:06,200
I think it does. We, uh,

1152
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,240
we kind of experienced similar issues
when you're transferring from tissue

1153
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:09,680
culture two,

1154
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,840
because it's a very specific environment
that the root has been growing in.

1155
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:17,520
It's got a certain weight to it, it's
got a certain, um, water content,

1156
01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:21,240
all these different things that can happen
that at the root surface that it can

1157
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,600
sense that's gonna be very different
whether it's gel or air or water or

1158
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,360
whatever you are using
compared to the soil.

1159
01:07:29,300 --> 01:07:34,200
And so my my suggestion
would be that, you know,

1160
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:37,960
most of the times we fill a pot and
then we dig a little hole and we put our

1161
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,080
plant in it. My general suggestion
would be, don't do that,

1162
01:07:42,270 --> 01:07:46,000
fill a little bit and then just kind
of hold the plant up and sort of like

1163
01:07:46,220 --> 01:07:49,280
gently fill it in that way so it can
kind of retain that structure a bit more.

1164
01:07:49,300 --> 01:07:49,920
Mm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

1165
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,960
you still have to be careful
with like large air pockets,

1166
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:53,480
you're gonna have to
gently press down, but I,

1167
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,040
I think that that would probably preserve
the structure a little better than

1168
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:57,760
just kind of s smushing
it in there, don't jam.

1169
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:58,680
It in there, don't let it,

1170
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,080
let it hang of its own accord
and then fill it around it.

1171
01:08:01,590 --> 01:08:02,800
Yeah. Yeah. I think that would,

1172
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,920
that would be the best way I think to
preserve that very delicate sort of

1173
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,440
structure. And I don't have,
again, like this is speculation.

1174
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:15,520
I think it should provide the roots and
support as you're filling it in. Um,

1175
01:08:15,780 --> 01:08:17,120
and I think it would cause less damage,

1176
01:08:17,540 --> 01:08:21,680
but it's still going to experience some
differences compared to what it was

1177
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,720
growing in. So you might still
see some damage, um, just,

1178
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:29,080
just because it's not as wet or it's
having to adjust the type of nutrient

1179
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,080
acquisition it's doing,
like those kind of things.

1180
01:08:31,340 --> 01:08:33,480
But hopefully that way the
root architecture is preserved.

1181
01:08:33,480 --> 01:08:36,880
And I know that's something I
do with T culture is I like,

1182
01:08:36,910 --> 01:08:39,840
I'll fill the pot three quarters full
and then I'll just kind of try and like

1183
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,880
fill in around it so that the route's
kind of supported from below before I

1184
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:43,720
start squishing it down.

1185
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:49,280
All right. So, um, let's
talk about, um, uh,

1186
01:08:49,870 --> 01:08:53,200
comparing a couple of
these different, um, uh,

1187
01:08:53,250 --> 01:08:57,760
substrates as far as microbial
life interaction goes. So in soil,

1188
01:08:57,870 --> 01:09:02,080
most cultivators are looking for complex
microbe systems so that the plant

1189
01:09:02,270 --> 01:09:06,680
thrives and is pest free and
has a complex terpene profile.

1190
01:09:07,580 --> 01:09:08,260
Um,

1191
01:09:08,260 --> 01:09:13,240
and that happens because there
is this burgeoning community of

1192
01:09:13,310 --> 01:09:17,320
life in the root zone in TheraSphere. Um,

1193
01:09:18,510 --> 01:09:19,343
however,

1194
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:23,920
in in cocoa and Pete and in hydroponics

1195
01:09:24,450 --> 01:09:25,283
we're, we're,

1196
01:09:25,370 --> 01:09:30,360
we're pouring nutrition and in many
cases we're pouring microbes in,

1197
01:09:31,420 --> 01:09:33,840
uh, to the root zone. But, uh,

1198
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,080
because there is not an
established soil community,

1199
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,000
I I kind of get the idea
that they're kind of,

1200
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:45,440
anything that we add is just passing
through. Um, because there isn't, uh,

1201
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:50,680
a system to sustain life
in those other non soil

1202
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,720
environments. So, um, how,

1203
01:09:55,380 --> 01:09:59,920
how does this impact the
experience of the roots to thrive

1204
01:10:00,220 --> 01:10:04,560
and to bring nutrition that the added

1205
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,320
microbes and nutrition are not,

1206
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,120
I guess I'll say residents
of the substrate,

1207
01:10:12,780 --> 01:10:14,200
but more that we're,

1208
01:10:14,330 --> 01:10:19,080
we're pouring it in and it's there for
a little while and then they're gone and

1209
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,960
then the roots are waiting for
us as the human to add more?

1210
01:10:22,940 --> 01:10:26,160
Yes. So I guess I'll answer
that in a couple parts.

1211
01:10:26,610 --> 01:10:30,680
First supplementation
of microbes. Um, it's,

1212
01:10:30,750 --> 01:10:32,400
it's sort of a spicy take,

1213
01:10:32,500 --> 01:10:37,360
but I don't love the addition of that
kind of stuff because as you say,

1214
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,360
it is very transient. And most
of the times that we're like,

1215
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:44,040
when we talk about building a
living soil and we're adding like,

1216
01:10:44,950 --> 01:10:48,320
like my, or, um, like bacterial,

1217
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:50,840
I think bacterial is the
easiest to get started with.

1218
01:10:51,380 --> 01:10:54,280
And because they grow so quickly and
they have such a quick life cycle,

1219
01:10:54,780 --> 01:10:56,000
it might do better,

1220
01:10:56,580 --> 01:11:00,080
but most of that is relying on the fact
that it's going to stay put. Mm-hmm.

1221
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:01,280
<affirmative>, um, in particular my,

1222
01:11:01,470 --> 01:11:06,120
because like the microrisal structure
that actually provides benefit to

1223
01:11:06,300 --> 01:11:10,480
the plant includes like hifa, which
are basically little fungal roots that,

1224
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:13,560
that need time to grow. They're
very fragile. They're even,

1225
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:17,640
they're even this thin, maybe even
thinner than a root hair. Like they,

1226
01:11:17,780 --> 01:11:21,440
if you start moving them around,
um, and this is something,

1227
01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:22,680
I don't know if you've heard of no-till,

1228
01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:26,480
but it's one of the main reasons why
people try not to till their soil mm-hmm.

1229
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,400
<affirmative> because you're actually
disrupting all those little fungal roots.

1230
01:11:29,940 --> 01:11:30,773
Um,

1231
01:11:30,780 --> 01:11:35,480
and I don't see that that's really going
to be something that can form properly

1232
01:11:35,940 --> 01:11:40,280
in something like hydroponics
where there's current and
in the same way that the

1233
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,480
root hairs don't form, I would
not expect to see fungal hye form,

1234
01:11:43,500 --> 01:11:46,280
at least not to the extent
that where they're helpful. Um,

1235
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:48,920
bacteria a little different
because again, they can,

1236
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,960
they can still colonize kind of
on the surface of the plant root,

1237
01:11:52,100 --> 01:11:56,600
but their main job in a, in a soil
system is to help break down nutrients.

1238
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:57,960
And some of the stuff
we were talking earlier,

1239
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,960
like provide protection and stuff, and
they're just going to be more limited.

1240
01:12:02,180 --> 01:12:05,040
Um, as far as like how that fits into,

1241
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:09,360
I think it's probably easier to get
that started in peat, but as you say,

1242
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,720
when we're watering it through and we're
not really providing for the bacterial

1243
01:12:12,780 --> 01:12:16,040
or microrisal community as well,

1244
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:19,400
they're not really getting set up there
before you're adding something different

1245
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,280
and you're just pouring more stuff in
there. Does that enter your question?

1246
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:27,360
Yeah, it does. And um, it would
make me think then that, um,

1247
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:29,240
without the,

1248
01:12:29,540 --> 01:12:34,440
the constant access to the resident
microbes in nutrition as you

1249
01:12:34,440 --> 01:12:37,280
described it, and, and instead, um,

1250
01:12:37,710 --> 01:12:42,560
it's just going to be there when
I add it, that, um, you know,

1251
01:12:42,620 --> 01:12:45,640
you might, you might still get
perfectly fine cannabis plants,

1252
01:12:45,940 --> 01:12:50,200
but there's some percentage
of, of thriving or,

1253
01:12:50,300 --> 01:12:55,160
or in our case with the cannabis
plant specifically, um, yield and,

1254
01:12:55,900 --> 01:12:56,733
uh,

1255
01:12:57,380 --> 01:13:02,000
and terpene profile that you might
experience a little less in these

1256
01:13:02,070 --> 01:13:05,320
mediums where we have to, um,

1257
01:13:05,740 --> 01:13:09,640
add the nutrition through
a cocoa p or hydro system.

1258
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:13,240
Whereas in living soils, it's there. Um,

1259
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:15,000
would you agree with that
assessment that those,

1260
01:13:15,050 --> 01:13:18,400
those plants will be perfectly fine and
people have great success with them,

1261
01:13:18,540 --> 01:13:19,880
but, but there's, there's,

1262
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:24,080
there's some percentage that's
more than zero that would be

1263
01:13:24,710 --> 01:13:27,240
benefited by the living soil approach.

1264
01:13:28,510 --> 01:13:32,390
I, like I am, I'm heavily biased towards
living soil. I think it's like such a,

1265
01:13:32,540 --> 01:13:33,470
such a fantastic,

1266
01:13:33,780 --> 01:13:38,230
like build an ecosystem from the ground
up and let your plant live in it. Um,

1267
01:13:38,350 --> 01:13:42,110
I think we've talked about this before,
maybe on the, the last time I was here,

1268
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,750
where I certainly believe
that there is a shift,

1269
01:13:46,020 --> 01:13:50,150
like each growing method that you use
does something a little bit different to

1270
01:13:50,150 --> 01:13:53,670
your plants. And it depends when
we're talking about like, um,

1271
01:13:53,670 --> 01:13:55,430
like terpene profiles and stuff like that,

1272
01:13:55,480 --> 01:13:57,270
there definitely is a difference when you,

1273
01:13:57,420 --> 01:14:01,310
when you grow in living soil versus
when you grow in hydroponics,

1274
01:14:01,380 --> 01:14:03,150
when you stress them out,
when you don't. Like we,

1275
01:14:03,170 --> 01:14:06,590
we know we can influence these terpene
profiles depending on what we do to the

1276
01:14:06,590 --> 01:14:09,950
plant. So I don't know if that
necessarily makes it better or worse,

1277
01:14:10,010 --> 01:14:14,280
but when we talk about things like
bacteria and add adding mycorrhiza,

1278
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,040
I think you really have to ask
yourself why you're adding it.

1279
01:14:17,150 --> 01:14:20,320
Because when we're going to
hydroponics and aeroponics, uh,

1280
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:25,280
we're providing pretty much everything
the plant needs to put on weight as

1281
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:26,160
far as yield goes.

1282
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:31,040
Like we're providing it nitrogen and
minerals and phosphorus and, you know,

1283
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,000
all these little things
to, to help it out.

1284
01:14:33,300 --> 01:14:37,280
It might not be as good at
defending itself from disease, um,

1285
01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:41,240
or something like that that might be
benefited by a living soil, but like,

1286
01:14:41,260 --> 01:14:46,040
for just making flowers grow,
it'll be perfectly fine. Um,

1287
01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:49,000
but that's why when you're
adding it to a hydroponic system,

1288
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:53,360
I don't know that it always is doing
the thing that people think it should be

1289
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,840
doing, if that makes sense.

1290
01:14:54,910 --> 01:14:59,880
Yeah, it does make sense. All right.
So to, to wrap up this, uh, second set,

1291
01:15:00,300 --> 01:15:05,200
um, I'd like to get you to weigh
in on, um, um, pot variety,

1292
01:15:05,940 --> 01:15:10,720
um, plastic pots versus
fabric pots. Um, you know,

1293
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:15,760
a lot of people were happy to move on
from the plastic pots, um, because,

1294
01:15:16,140 --> 01:15:19,920
you know, a, they they get hot if you
live somewhere hot because they're black.

1295
01:15:20,620 --> 01:15:25,280
Uh, uh, b you know, they don't
breathe if that is an advantage. Uh,

1296
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,920
c it can get kind of swampy in there if
you tend to over water or if you don't

1297
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:34,440
have a good, uh, soil
structure. Um, versus the,

1298
01:15:34,700 --> 01:15:37,280
the air pots, which, uh, excuse me,

1299
01:15:37,300 --> 01:15:40,560
the fabric pots and air
pots I guess where they,

1300
01:15:40,630 --> 01:15:43,400
they talk all the time about how, uh,

1301
01:15:43,460 --> 01:15:47,640
the roots are air pruned along
the side and, um, you know,

1302
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:49,440
there can be more oxygen exchange,

1303
01:15:49,820 --> 01:15:54,680
but I don't really know that air
pruning along the side of a fabric pot,

1304
01:15:55,300 --> 01:16:00,040
um, or more air exchange with the pot
are necessarily good things. I, I don't,

1305
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,480
I, I know they claim them
to be good things, but I,

1306
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:03,920
I don't know that to be true.

1307
01:16:04,260 --> 01:16:08,280
It does seem that the plastic
pots would be more akin to,

1308
01:16:09,180 --> 01:16:12,560
to actually being grown in
soil, but I don't know that,

1309
01:16:12,620 --> 01:16:14,400
so I would like to hear
you compare the two.

1310
01:16:15,230 --> 01:16:17,880
Okay. Well, um, I guess for starters,

1311
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:23,000
I do tend to use air pots
or, or fabric pots. Um,

1312
01:16:23,260 --> 01:16:24,800
but it's, it's sort of a combination.

1313
01:16:24,940 --> 01:16:29,240
So if we think about the
whole oxygen air thing,

1314
01:16:29,300 --> 01:16:31,400
we do actually need soil to be rated.

1315
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:36,280
Most of the beneficial microbes that
we're talking about today are, um,

1316
01:16:36,470 --> 01:16:39,360
they're requiring oxygen
just like everything else is.

1317
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:41,400
And in on the opposite hand,

1318
01:16:41,900 --> 01:16:46,520
we have a lot of bacteria that are not
healthy that grow in anaerobic or like

1319
01:16:46,540 --> 01:16:51,160
oxygen free areas. So when
it comes to extra oxygen,

1320
01:16:51,540 --> 01:16:55,120
I'm, I'm all for that. It
sort of prevents, I mean,

1321
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:57,200
there's still other husbandry things
that you would want to consider,

1322
01:16:57,260 --> 01:16:58,640
but in my opinion, it,

1323
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:02,320
it helps prevent things like pythium and
stuff like that from really taking root

1324
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,240
mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and like
air pruning and stuff like that,

1325
01:17:05,420 --> 01:17:06,640
it changes the root structure.

1326
01:17:06,900 --> 01:17:09,850
I'm not a hundred percent sure if
it's for the better or if the worse,

1327
01:17:09,850 --> 01:17:13,320
but it does seem to do a pretty good job
of growing with mother plants and stuff

1328
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:17,320
like that. I will say they
are paint water because um,

1329
01:17:17,460 --> 01:17:19,280
the water just kind of
leaks out the sides. Yeah.

1330
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,800
So you still have to have like a plastic
saucer underneath and they don't,

1331
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:26,200
there's definitely things that I don't
absolutely enjoy a hundred percent about

1332
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:30,800
them. When we look at like a hard wall
plastic pot, um, I think you do like,

1333
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,320
if they're definitely easier to
water and they definitely retain, um,

1334
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:38,200
they don't dry out as, as quickly I
guess. Um, so you can put water in there,

1335
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:41,560
it's not evaporating out the sides.
Um, so that the whole root ball,

1336
01:17:41,580 --> 01:17:46,320
it might be easier to control for water
moisture if you don't water as often

1337
01:17:46,380 --> 01:17:49,200
or something like that. Um, and again,

1338
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:51,520
I think there's other
husbandry issues that you,

1339
01:17:51,670 --> 01:17:56,600
that you'd also have to look into as far
as whether that necessarily makes the

1340
01:17:56,620 --> 01:17:59,960
growth of bad bacteria easier or not.

1341
01:18:00,230 --> 01:18:02,600
That often has to do with the
type of soil you have too.

1342
01:18:02,620 --> 01:18:06,600
So I don't know if it's
directly relatable, um, but
I feel more comfortable in,

1343
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,000
in the, in the fabric pots.

1344
01:18:08,140 --> 01:18:12,320
And one way to get around the
miserable watering situation is to, um,

1345
01:18:12,340 --> 01:18:15,440
use like drip emitters or something
like that where your soil is more

1346
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,320
constantly, um, wet, which is actually,

1347
01:18:18,370 --> 01:18:22,400
especially for living soil better because
a lot of the microbes need to be wet

1348
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,400
constantly too. So as
far as living soil goes,

1349
01:18:25,620 --> 01:18:27,840
my personal preference
would be fabric pots. Right.

1350
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:29,920
On. Thank you. That's great analysis. Um,

1351
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:34,640
I use the fabric pots as well and there
was one thing that I learned about them

1352
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,600
that that really annoyed me. I
still continue to use them, but I,

1353
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:42,520
I didn't like this fact figuring it
out. Um, I was, I was talking with uh,

1354
01:18:42,980 --> 01:18:47,920
uh, uh, Josh from Dragonfly Earth Medicine
about them and about how, how I, I,

1355
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:52,360
you know, I, I like using fabric pots
versus plastic pots so that there's,

1356
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,440
you know, I'm using less,
uh, plastic. And, uh,

1357
01:18:55,460 --> 01:19:00,240
he had the audacity to point out that
even though we're using the term fabric

1358
01:19:00,630 --> 01:19:01,960
pots, that um,

1359
01:19:01,980 --> 01:19:06,800
nearly all of them on the market are
spun plastic mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

1360
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:10,360
And I looked into it and dammit,
he's right. And so Yep. They're,

1361
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:14,520
they're plastic pots just in
a different form. And so, um,

1362
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:18,040
that fact pissed me off. And
so I went and I, and I, I,

1363
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:22,480
I intentionally purchased actual hemp pots

1364
01:19:23,020 --> 01:19:26,000
and they degraded and fell
apart in one season. And I'm.

1365
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,000
Like, they do. Yes. I'm like.

1366
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:31,760
Well damn. The biology of it, um,
makes the spun plastic, I guess,

1367
01:19:31,820 --> 01:19:36,720
at least necessary for the time being
until we've got another material. But, um,

1368
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:37,140
yeah,

1369
01:19:37,140 --> 01:19:41,800
me thinking that air quotes fabric pots
were some kind of linen was like totally

1370
01:19:41,890 --> 01:19:42,723
wrong.

1371
01:19:42,980 --> 01:19:44,320
No, and I think a lot of, um,

1372
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,360
I think you're probably not alone because
I think a lot of us are trying to use

1373
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:48,680
less plastic and that kind of stuff.

1374
01:19:48,860 --> 01:19:52,400
And I don't necessarily think that fabric
pots will mean less plastic cuz it's

1375
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,560
basically like wearing a polyester
shirt or something like that.

1376
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,840
There's definitely some plastic
in there, but as you say,

1377
01:19:58,380 --> 01:20:02,600
any of the natural fibers tend
to disintegrate very quickly. Um,

1378
01:20:02,940 --> 01:20:07,760
so like felt or spun or
whatever. You're, you're gonna,

1379
01:20:07,940 --> 01:20:10,240
the, the more natural
and less plastic you go,

1380
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:13,800
the more often you have to replace them.
I, I, which isn't really a big deal,

1381
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,760
I guess when you wanna like transplant
into a field or something, you probably,

1382
01:20:16,830 --> 01:20:19,800
like if they degrade in a couple
of months of, you know, watering,

1383
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:21,240
they're probably okay <laugh>. But.

1384
01:20:21,870 --> 01:20:25,120
What I hate though is the idea of my, uh,

1385
01:20:25,670 --> 01:20:30,320
spun plastic fabric pots that are outside.

1386
01:20:31,020 --> 01:20:34,520
And once I learned that as
they degrade over the years,

1387
01:20:34,670 --> 01:20:38,000
they are very likely shedding
microplastics mm-hmm.

1388
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:42,600
<affirmative> into my farm's ecosystem
mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh,

1389
01:20:42,630 --> 01:20:46,560
that was very disappointing to me.
And so I don't have a solution for it,

1390
01:20:46,700 --> 01:20:50,680
but I think that, I think that it's
important for us all to be aware of, of,

1391
01:20:50,740 --> 01:20:51,680
of the truth of it.

1392
01:20:52,170 --> 01:20:53,920
Absolutely. And I think that goes to like,

1393
01:20:53,990 --> 01:20:57,000
like when we're choosing things
to have a preference over,

1394
01:20:57,430 --> 01:21:01,760
like I think when you choose a fabric
pot because you aren't necessarily saving

1395
01:21:01,780 --> 01:21:05,320
the plastic. Um, and I don't think
in a hard wall plastic, like,

1396
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,000
especially cuz you're putting acidic
fertilizer and things like that through,

1397
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,400
you're breaking that plastic
down too. So I, it's,

1398
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:14,080
it's a trade off more about is it
providing you the right, right.

1399
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:18,520
Growing environment for your method and
then make your choice based on that.

1400
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,840
Because fabric pot, certainly,
in my opinion anyway,

1401
01:21:21,870 --> 01:21:25,800
support living soil better
when you get them going. Um,

1402
01:21:26,220 --> 01:21:29,600
but I mean, a hard wall plastic
is totally fine too. Right.

1403
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,080
On. Cool. All right. Let's
go ahead and take, uh,

1404
01:21:32,100 --> 01:21:33,960
our second short break and be right back.

1405
01:21:34,260 --> 01:21:37,520
You are listening to Shaping Fire
and my guest today is Plant biologist

1406
01:21:37,650 --> 01:21:38,483
Sarah Lane.

1407
01:21:41,620 --> 01:21:44,760
Online Cannabis seed distributors
often seem to be all the same,

1408
01:21:45,100 --> 01:21:49,000
but multiverse beans constantly works
to provide you with cannabis seeds and a

1409
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,280
buying experience that
you won't find elsewhere.

1410
01:21:52,090 --> 01:21:55,960
Multiverse Beans works directly with
the breeders to secure as many packs of

1411
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:59,800
your favorites as possible so that they
have your favorite beans long after

1412
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:03,680
others have sold out. Some shops
simply buy breeder minimums,

1413
01:22:03,780 --> 01:22:07,920
but I get messages all the time from
Breeders saying some version of Multiverse

1414
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:09,480
asked to buy my entire run.

1415
01:22:10,460 --> 01:22:14,920
At multiverse beans.com you can find
rare cannabis seeds from Night Owl Seeds,

1416
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:19,560
including the Dark Owl sub-label
Maisto Genetics Square One

1417
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:22,680
Genetics, Robinhood Seeds and
Ethos, and so many others.

1418
01:22:23,730 --> 01:22:28,280
Multiverse also initiates projects with
breeders to secure exclusive packs that

1419
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:29,840
you simply won't find elsewhere.

1420
01:22:30,610 --> 01:22:35,000
Multiverse founder Paul Law sees himself
not only as a curator of the best

1421
01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:36,273
cannabis seeds available,

1422
01:22:36,700 --> 01:22:40,840
but also as a collaborator with breeders
trying to bring novel crosses to the

1423
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:42,760
market that his customers are asking for.

1424
01:22:43,780 --> 01:22:47,370
Multiverse Beans also creates exclusive
stickers for their popular seed

1425
01:22:47,370 --> 01:22:50,570
varieties that are available free
only when you order those seeds from

1426
01:22:50,570 --> 01:22:51,403
multiverse.

1427
01:22:51,980 --> 01:22:56,850
Check out their stickers like the
badass recent slap for Moth Man by known

1428
01:22:56,980 --> 01:23:01,250
automatics on Instagram at
multiverse beans. And finally,

1429
01:23:01,390 --> 01:23:06,000
the freebies. As you'd expect, Paul
sends quality freebies with every order.

1430
01:23:06,460 --> 01:23:11,200
And when you spend at least
$150 multiverse allows you
to choose your freebies

1431
01:23:11,270 --> 01:23:12,760
from their special selections,

1432
01:23:13,820 --> 01:23:18,040
you can get a 10% discount off regularly
priced items when you use the discount

1433
01:23:18,070 --> 01:23:21,000
code shaping fire, all
one word at checkout,

1434
01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:25,040
sign up for their mailing list to be
eligible for their monthly seed giveaway

1435
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:26,240
worth $250.

1436
01:23:27,220 --> 01:23:32,120
So go to multiverse beans.com now
for a buying experience you won't

1437
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:32,953
get anywhere else.

1438
01:23:36,140 --> 01:23:39,440
One of the challenges with buying AutoFlow
seeds is that often you'll have as

1439
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:44,200
many different pheno as you'll have
seeds in a pack that can be fun. Sure.

1440
01:23:44,340 --> 01:23:49,280
But so many varieties in one pack is a
sign of an immature seed line that hasn't

1441
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:50,113
been worked enough.

1442
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:54,920
I prefer my AutoFlow to be worked enough
that each pheno in the pack really

1443
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,240
captures the aspects that
the breeder was intending.

1444
01:23:58,190 --> 01:24:02,600
This is why I recommend no automatics
to my friends and listeners who grow

1445
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,400
automatic flowering cannabis seeds.

1446
01:24:05,500 --> 01:24:08,200
Nom automatic seeds are not
just crossed and released.

1447
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:12,760
They are painstakingly sifted again
and again tested in a wide range of

1448
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:17,200
conditions and taken to a
level of maturity that each
plant will be recognizable

1449
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:18,033
by its traits,

1450
01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:22,920
traits that were hard earned so that
you can have your best growth cycle ever

1451
01:24:23,910 --> 01:24:25,160
over the last 10 years.

1452
01:24:25,660 --> 01:24:30,160
Nom Automatics founder Dan Jimmy has
become a trusted breeder and he continues

1453
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:34,320
to pour his passion of breeding cannabis
into every variety he releases for you

1454
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:35,153
to grow.

1455
01:24:35,650 --> 01:24:40,040
Check out the Nom automatics
Instagram at nom underscore

1456
01:24:40,130 --> 01:24:43,320
automatics to see the impressive
plants folks are growing.

1457
01:24:44,300 --> 01:24:48,760
You can score nom automatic seeds in
feminized or regular at your favorite seed

1458
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,360
provider listed in the vendor
section of their website.

1459
01:24:52,010 --> 01:24:56,200
Commercial cannabis farms
across the country love
growing nom automatics because

1460
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,600
of their consistency from seed to seed.

1461
01:24:59,170 --> 01:25:03,600
Short grow times THC percentages
and colorful bag appeal.

1462
01:25:04,410 --> 01:25:08,240
Farms interested in bulk seeds of more
than a thousand should reach out through

1463
01:25:08,620 --> 01:25:12,200
no automatics.com. While on the website,

1464
01:25:12,220 --> 01:25:16,280
be sure to check out the nom automatics
shirts and other merch section two.

1465
01:25:17,100 --> 01:25:20,360
If you want reliable seeds
hand-built from effort,

1466
01:25:20,620 --> 01:25:24,800
expert selection and experience,
choose Nome Automatics.

1467
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:31,940
One of the reasons why no-till cannabis
growing is so valued by farmers is

1468
01:25:31,940 --> 01:25:36,300
because the mycelium networks in the soil
remain established from year to year.

1469
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:40,740
And we know these fungal networks are
essential because they're the nutrient

1470
01:25:40,850 --> 01:25:45,220
superhighways that extend far and wide
in the substrate to feed your plants.

1471
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:50,460
The trouble with growing in new living
soils or blended cocoa substrates is that

1472
01:25:50,460 --> 01:25:55,140
it takes most of the plants' life just
to create these mycelium highways.

1473
01:25:56,210 --> 01:25:57,220
Dino, endo,

1474
01:25:57,220 --> 01:26:01,980
microrisal fungi inoculate reduces that
time and gets your plant eating a wider

1475
01:26:02,110 --> 01:26:03,600
array of nutrients faster.

1476
01:26:04,220 --> 01:26:08,600
And it's three times the concentration
of the other popular brand in the US at

1477
01:26:08,630 --> 01:26:13,520
900 propag program of two fungal
species selected specifically for

1478
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:14,720
cannabis cultivation.

1479
01:26:15,550 --> 01:26:19,800
Dmic is the result of 30 years of research
and trials at the Vocon Agriculture

1480
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:21,320
Research Institute in Israel.

1481
01:26:21,740 --> 01:26:26,160
It has also been vigorously trialed by
cannabis and food growers across the us.

1482
01:26:27,130 --> 01:26:31,280
Dynam Myco is now available at Grow
Shops and on Amazon in the United States.

1483
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,760
I love using Dynam Myco to both speed up
the growth of the mycelium networks in

1484
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:39,760
the soil, but also as a bio stimulant
to make clone cuttings more vir.

1485
01:26:40,540 --> 01:26:44,480
You can see side-by-side showing the
comparative growth on their Instagram at

1486
01:26:44,830 --> 01:26:45,663
dmic.

1487
01:26:46,100 --> 01:26:49,920
If you demand reliable growing results
and appreciate the importance of an

1488
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:51,960
active root zone in
creating a thriving plant,

1489
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:57,120
I encourage you to check out dmic.com
and use the store locator to find out

1490
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:58,520
where you can get yours.

1491
01:26:59,020 --> 01:27:03,640
That's d Y N O m yco o.com

1492
01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:09,480
shaping fire listeners can get 10%
off any size of Dyna Mico on Amazon

1493
01:27:09,540 --> 01:27:13,800
or dynami.com by using the
discount code shaping fire,

1494
01:27:14,100 --> 01:27:18,600
one word no caps. Whether you are
starting with new beds or pots,

1495
01:27:18,620 --> 01:27:20,840
or if you want to add
some zing to tired soil,

1496
01:27:21,060 --> 01:27:23,880
choose Dynam Myco to maximize
your plant's potential.

1497
01:27:24,910 --> 01:27:28,850
Dmic Endo Microrisal
inoculate. Welcome back.

1498
01:27:28,850 --> 01:27:32,010
You are listening to Shaping
Fire. I am your host Chango Los,

1499
01:27:32,270 --> 01:27:35,130
and my guest today is
Plant Biologist Sarah Lane.

1500
01:27:35,630 --> 01:27:38,450
So here we are in set three
for the big finish. Um,

1501
01:27:38,450 --> 01:27:42,050
what we're gonna focus on
this set is, is the, you know,

1502
01:27:42,050 --> 01:27:46,690
the care and feeding of a good and
thriving root system because, you know,

1503
01:27:46,690 --> 01:27:50,530
it's one thing for us to understand
what root structure is and what the,

1504
01:27:50,530 --> 01:27:53,890
what the root system is doing.
Um, but we as cultivators,

1505
01:27:54,030 --> 01:27:58,970
we wanna make it as as healthy and
happy as we can. So, um, so Sarah,

1506
01:27:59,100 --> 01:28:01,930
let's talk about how much to water. Um,

1507
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:07,290
what should our considerations be
across the various substrate systems we

1508
01:28:07,290 --> 01:28:10,250
have discussed today to
make sure that we're,

1509
01:28:10,260 --> 01:28:14,410
we're watering in a zone that
is enough for the root system,

1510
01:28:14,830 --> 01:28:16,570
but not enough to drown it?

1511
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:18,130
Well, that's a good question.

1512
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:23,450
So I think the first and foremost things
is that roots do not like to dry out.

1513
01:28:23,790 --> 01:28:27,410
So you wanna keep making sure that
the soil is wet and that the roots,

1514
01:28:27,630 --> 01:28:29,970
the root ball itself is,
is nice and at least damp.

1515
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,810
Obviously overwatering is a problem
because the roots then can't breathe.

1516
01:28:33,810 --> 01:28:37,330
They're kind of like drowning if you
will. Um, and, and that's a problem. So,

1517
01:28:37,550 --> 01:28:39,970
but it depends on the substrate of
what this looks like. For example,

1518
01:28:39,990 --> 01:28:44,010
in hydroponics they're kind of always
sitting in water and there it's more

1519
01:28:44,010 --> 01:28:46,850
important to make sure that the,
the liquid is aerated properly.

1520
01:28:46,870 --> 01:28:50,290
So it's not stagnant. In aeroponics,
this is almost never a problem.

1521
01:28:50,350 --> 01:28:53,890
You just wanna make sure that the spray
is happening often enough that the roots

1522
01:28:53,910 --> 01:28:57,610
are not drying out while they're waiting
cuz it's not usually a constant thing.

1523
01:28:58,150 --> 01:29:01,800
And then in soils we wanna
usually, um, when I'm watering,

1524
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,400
I lift my pot up a little bit and as
it starts to get lighter and lighter,

1525
01:29:05,420 --> 01:29:05,800
you know,

1526
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:10,160
that the water's evaporating and then
before it has a chance to get too dry, um,

1527
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:13,280
then you water again. And
with living soil, um, systems,

1528
01:29:13,790 --> 01:29:15,680
it's even more important
that it stays damp.

1529
01:29:15,780 --> 01:29:18,960
So if the surface of the soil
starts to dry out too much, it,

1530
01:29:18,980 --> 01:29:22,200
it isn't that healthy for that
system. So then I, I would,

1531
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:25,640
I would check probably daily or every
couple of days to make sure that the,

1532
01:29:25,710 --> 01:29:28,480
that top layer is staying at
least damped to the touch.

1533
01:29:29,260 --> 01:29:33,840
And another re that, that's another good
reason to use some kind of, uh, uh, uh,

1534
01:29:33,930 --> 01:29:38,680
small plant cover crop of some sort
to, uh, keep the top of the pot,

1535
01:29:39,380 --> 01:29:39,810
um,

1536
01:29:39,810 --> 01:29:44,760
moist so it doesn't go hydrophobic
and push the water off and uh,

1537
01:29:45,020 --> 01:29:49,480
and, and helps the water get into the
pot. I would think also that cover crops,

1538
01:29:49,980 --> 01:29:54,800
um, would be helpful because
the roots of the cover crop,

1539
01:29:55,340 --> 01:30:00,280
um, also interact with the
roots of the cannabis plant and

1540
01:30:00,740 --> 01:30:04,000
um, you know, they communicate
and share resources, right?

1541
01:30:04,570 --> 01:30:06,880
Absolutely. And cover
crops are an excellent, um,

1542
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:08,520
especially if you're
working in a soil system,

1543
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:12,560
they can be super beneficial not only
to to keep the water in cuz it's not

1544
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:15,960
getting lost and evaporating as
much. Um, but also as you say,

1545
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,480
because those roots are, are
providing like a little layer of,

1546
01:30:18,540 --> 01:30:22,320
of support and networking, if you
are careful about what you choose,

1547
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,520
you can also be contributing
nitrogen. For example,

1548
01:30:24,660 --> 01:30:27,680
we often plant like micro clover, um,

1549
01:30:27,820 --> 01:30:31,520
or red clover in our pods because
it does kind of give back to the,

1550
01:30:31,740 --> 01:30:35,720
the system as opposed to some cover
crops where it would also be using up

1551
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:36,753
nutrients.

1552
01:30:36,980 --> 01:30:40,680
I'm forgetting the, the, the
vocabulary word for it. But, um,

1553
01:30:40,690 --> 01:30:44,800
there are certain plants
that, uh, you can, uh, uh,

1554
01:30:45,250 --> 01:30:49,640
plant as a companion plant that
actually do, does the other plant harm.

1555
01:30:50,140 --> 01:30:53,960
Um, are you aware of any plants where the,

1556
01:30:54,180 --> 01:30:59,160
the roots of that plant actually are
combative against ca uh, cannabis roots?

1557
01:31:00,180 --> 01:31:03,280
Um, off the top of my head, I'm
not a hundred percent sure. I,

1558
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:06,480
I know some like classic, I think what
you're referring to is a allopathy. Yes.

1559
01:31:06,660 --> 01:31:07,180
Um,

1560
01:31:07,180 --> 01:31:10,960
and there's like definitely some plants
that are just like absolute no toxic,

1561
01:31:11,260 --> 01:31:14,120
but they're like big trees. Like you
never plant anything under black walnut.

1562
01:31:14,230 --> 01:31:15,480
It's like a circle of death,

1563
01:31:15,620 --> 01:31:18,320
but you're obviously not planting
that next to a cannabis tree.

1564
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:22,000
I think if you're worried about it
sticking strictly to things like,

1565
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:26,600
like clover. Um, and some of the,
like if you go to a farm supply store,

1566
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:30,960
they often have good cover crops
there and those plants usually are com

1567
01:31:31,530 --> 01:31:33,560
compatible with a lot of other plants.

1568
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:35,640
I don't know anything off
the top of my head that,

1569
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,120
that I would want to put in a
pot that would do that, but yeah.

1570
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:42,120
Yeah, stick with the basics unless
you're choosing to research it first,

1571
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:42,910
essentially.

1572
01:31:42,910 --> 01:31:46,560
Basically. And like there's lots of,
lots of great op uh, like options.

1573
01:31:47,020 --> 01:31:51,960
We do marigold. You can do, um,
like basil, you can do like some,

1574
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,640
some types of herbs are
pretty good in there. Um,

1575
01:31:54,670 --> 01:31:58,720
Basil's really good basil and marigold
both are good too because, um,

1576
01:31:58,790 --> 01:32:00,880
they can be planted in
with your cannabis plant,

1577
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:03,800
but they also act as like
an insect trap because, um,

1578
01:32:03,990 --> 01:32:07,680
like everything loves basil.
So if you plant a basil plant,

1579
01:32:07,820 --> 01:32:11,080
you're probably getting first
signs of bugs will show up there.

1580
01:32:11,100 --> 01:32:13,240
So they can be kind of useful
that way. And of course,

1581
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:15,600
like the clover is a
really good one too. I've.

1582
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,640
Gotten into the habit of, of throwing, um,

1583
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:22,640
different types of food producing plants
in my pots. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I,

1584
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:27,160
uh, I, I toured, um, uh, a farm where
they were growing potatoes under their,

1585
01:32:27,170 --> 01:32:30,440
their plants outside in
their, in, in the kind of, um,

1586
01:32:30,660 --> 01:32:34,600
the duff berm that they were doing out
there at Green Source Gardens. And uh,

1587
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:36,680
I thought that was such a
great idea, but like, you know,

1588
01:32:36,740 --> 01:32:40,920
we have to be in containers, uh,
where we are. So, so, you know, I,

1589
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:44,600
I got strawberries grown in one, I
got carrots grown in another perfect,

1590
01:32:44,620 --> 01:32:48,000
got like culinary herbs in another.
And uh, and you know, you get,

1591
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:51,040
you get that wind from the cover
crop, but also, you know, if,

1592
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,280
if you get hungry out when you're
working in the field, you have snacks,

1593
01:32:54,620 --> 01:32:55,480
so <laugh> a little snack.

1594
01:32:55,540 --> 01:32:56,000
That's great.

1595
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:58,040
Totally. Right on. So, um,

1596
01:32:58,220 --> 01:33:02,920
how impactful is the pH of the
water that we're watering with

1597
01:33:03,140 --> 01:33:04,320
on the root system?

1598
01:33:05,700 --> 01:33:09,560
Um, I think that depends on the soil. I,

1599
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,320
I it's so the pH of water,

1600
01:33:13,180 --> 01:33:16,360
that's one of the things that
preferentially kicks off nutrients.

1601
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:20,960
And so the more acidic the water, I think
the more nutrients you might kick off.

1602
01:33:21,190 --> 01:33:22,480
What does kickoff mean? Um.

1603
01:33:23,260 --> 01:33:27,000
So I guess if we wanna talk about the
soil as like essentially a kitchen

1604
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:27,833
cupboard,

1605
01:33:28,060 --> 01:33:31,440
all these structures that you see with
your naked eye on the soil have all these

1606
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,040
little charges on them that,

1607
01:33:33,070 --> 01:33:36,000
that sort of collect all the
nutrient salts that you're adding,

1608
01:33:36,110 --> 01:33:40,520
whether that's because a bacteria's
broken it down or not. As I said earlier,

1609
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:43,480
everything is basically salt at the end
of the day mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

1610
01:33:44,340 --> 01:33:48,120
but it stays there until something
would prefer to be in its spot more.

1611
01:33:48,420 --> 01:33:52,400
And that's usually, um,
acidity. So it will,

1612
01:33:52,820 --> 01:33:57,520
it will take its place on that
soil structure and because it

1613
01:33:57,570 --> 01:34:01,760
takes the place, then that nutrient is
free and it can go back into the water.

1614
01:34:01,990 --> 01:34:06,440
Does that make sense? It does. So then
that once that ion is, or salt is free,

1615
01:34:06,440 --> 01:34:10,280
then the plant can use it. And so
the plant actually does it itself.

1616
01:34:10,460 --> 01:34:14,800
It makes acids to go out into the soil
and to kick off all the nutrients off the

1617
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:16,560
soil so that it can take them up.

1618
01:34:16,860 --> 01:34:21,360
And if you are watering in a ci
like an acidic, um, like liquid,

1619
01:34:21,750 --> 01:34:24,960
even if it's just like water itself or
whether you've added like citric acid or

1620
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:27,960
something like that, you're gonna be
doing the same thing the plant is doing.

1621
01:34:28,260 --> 01:34:32,760
But you can do that in excess
where it, it would be too much. Um,

1622
01:34:33,060 --> 01:34:37,000
but the soil kind of buffers itself too.
So it's one of those things where on a,

1623
01:34:37,020 --> 01:34:41,040
on a, like a, a big level, I'm
not sure it's that impactful,

1624
01:34:41,180 --> 01:34:43,360
but that's what's happening on a
small scale. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

1625
01:34:44,060 --> 01:34:48,360
So, um, so as far as like
what we can learn from this,

1626
01:34:48,420 --> 01:34:52,480
it sounds like, you know,
un unless your water is, uh,

1627
01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:56,640
making a significant swing, um, that, uh,

1628
01:34:56,700 --> 01:35:01,160
the buffering of the soil and if you're
generally trying to stay near neutral

1629
01:35:01,260 --> 01:35:02,520
anyway, um,

1630
01:35:03,620 --> 01:35:07,600
the watering that you're doing is not
really all that impactful on the roots on

1631
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:09,360
the pH level because it's the,

1632
01:35:09,620 --> 01:35:13,800
the system is more or less going to
self-regulate so long as there isn't

1633
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:15,560
something like really wild happening.

1634
01:35:16,230 --> 01:35:19,400
Yeah, pretty much. And I will, I will
put the caveat in there that, um,

1635
01:35:19,670 --> 01:35:23,760
hydroponics is a little bit different
and I've heard multiple opinions about

1636
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:28,320
whether to pH your hydroponic
feed or not. I personally do. Um,

1637
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:31,760
because it, it's hard
to, especially over time,

1638
01:35:31,950 --> 01:35:34,760
it's hard to tell what, um,

1639
01:35:34,900 --> 01:35:37,840
the soil or whatever medium
you're watering into has retained.

1640
01:35:38,180 --> 01:35:41,800
And so making sure that
your, your nutrients are the,

1641
01:35:42,380 --> 01:35:46,400
the pH they should be at before they
go in sort of helps if your soil's at a

1642
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:51,000
whack. Um, but that's, some people don't
and they seem to find it works fine.

1643
01:35:51,180 --> 01:35:54,160
So again, it it might just be like,
like we were talking about earlier,

1644
01:35:54,180 --> 01:35:56,920
all these things that we do cuz someone
else told us to do it <laugh>. Yeah,

1645
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:58,800
totally. Um, it might
not matter in the end.

1646
01:35:59,010 --> 01:36:01,480
Right. On, let's talk about temperature.

1647
01:36:01,940 --> 01:36:06,720
So there's a lot of different variables
that can impact the temperature of

1648
01:36:07,140 --> 01:36:09,920
the substrate in the container. Uh,

1649
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:13,440
this isn't something that we need to
worry about in soil because geothermal

1650
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:17,840
takes care of any plants that are actually
in the ground. But, um, you know, uh,

1651
01:36:17,900 --> 01:36:22,840
uh, uh, dark colored pots are, are
going to, uh, attract and hold, uh,

1652
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:27,640
more of the sun's heat. Um,
we've got, uh, greenhouses and,

1653
01:36:27,780 --> 01:36:30,840
and tents outside that can, uh,

1654
01:36:30,940 --> 01:36:35,320
get exceptionally hot on on
really hot days e even if we are,

1655
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:40,000
have got fans in them. And,
uh, I run into this on my,

1656
01:36:40,300 --> 01:36:43,160
on my deck because, uh, the, the,

1657
01:36:43,380 --> 01:36:47,880
the hours right before the sun
goes down my deck will get up to,

1658
01:36:48,340 --> 01:36:52,480
you know, ninety five, a hundred and
fifteen like way up there on a hot day.

1659
01:36:53,180 --> 01:36:57,160
And, and, and any plants that I have on
my deck will just, will just cook. I,

1660
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:02,000
I just imagine the, the root zones
just like turning to mush. So,

1661
01:37:02,140 --> 01:37:07,040
um, I'm, I'm sure that there is a
range though where, um, you know,

1662
01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:11,840
the temperature of the root
zone is optimum. So would,

1663
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:16,440
would you kind of talk about what
temperature range makes sense for the root

1664
01:37:16,510 --> 01:37:18,560
zone? And I don't know, I guess,

1665
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:21,880
I guess the only way we would know on
a hot day would be to actually throw a

1666
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:22,713
probe in there.

1667
01:37:23,150 --> 01:37:23,860
Yeah,

1668
01:37:23,860 --> 01:37:28,560
so I guess the first part I
would mention is soil's kind of

1669
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:31,920
insulating. Um, and again, this kind
of goes back to your growing method.

1670
01:37:31,950 --> 01:37:34,640
Like if you're a bear root
ball hanging in hydroponics,

1671
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:38,400
that's gonna be way more important, um,
on, on a deck or something like that.

1672
01:37:38,830 --> 01:37:41,840
Like I think the same range that
you'd expect the plant to grow in.

1673
01:37:41,900 --> 01:37:45,720
So like 30 or I, I guess
I'm in Celsius. Um,

1674
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:50,840
I think like around like a mild
spring summer day would be fine.

1675
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:55,280
Obviously if you're getting up to
really, really hot summer days,

1676
01:37:55,780 --> 01:37:59,120
you're gonna start seeing some
effects. But the soil does buffer it,

1677
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:01,760
it both hangs onto heat but
also protects it a little bit.

1678
01:38:02,020 --> 01:38:03,680
And most of the time
when we're looking at,

1679
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:07,120
I guess the second part is when we're
looking at heat stress on a plant,

1680
01:38:07,430 --> 01:38:11,600
most of what's happening
is water. So the heat is,

1681
01:38:11,740 --> 01:38:15,120
is causing them to
photosynthesize more. Um,

1682
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:19,400
they're losing more water because that's
a direct part of photosynthesis is to

1683
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:20,760
lose water. Um,

1684
01:38:21,020 --> 01:38:24,640
and because it's happening
at a faster rate in heat and,

1685
01:38:24,940 --> 01:38:26,720
and they're also getting
cooked at the same time,

1686
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:28,760
so their leaves are kind of not happy. Um,

1687
01:38:29,060 --> 01:38:31,080
it can put a lot of
water stress on a plant,

1688
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:34,280
so that's why you might see wilting
or burning or those kind of things.

1689
01:38:34,460 --> 01:38:35,920
And so if it's a hot day,

1690
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:40,040
I think the best way to keep
the insulating properties
of the soil would just be

1691
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:42,920
to water more because the water's
gonna take up some time to,

1692
01:38:43,180 --> 01:38:44,200
to properly heat up.

1693
01:38:44,230 --> 01:38:47,080
It's also gonna be providing for the
fact that the leaves are transpiring more

1694
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:48,520
and it's gonna keep the
roots a little cooler.

1695
01:38:49,260 --> 01:38:54,160
On hot days like this, it's kind of
generally accepted that it's better to,

1696
01:38:54,940 --> 01:38:55,250
uh,

1697
01:38:55,250 --> 01:39:00,200
water more times less
water during a hot day

1698
01:39:00,670 --> 01:39:04,080
because, um, you don't wanna
say, oh, it's a hot day,

1699
01:39:04,140 --> 01:39:08,400
I'm gonna water more and just
go with more volume because now

1700
01:39:08,980 --> 01:39:13,440
not only is the plant trying to take
up water, but you've kind of like in,

1701
01:39:13,540 --> 01:39:18,200
you know, um, flooded the substrate and,

1702
01:39:18,260 --> 01:39:21,520
and it's, it there, there's like
almost too much water and it has to,

1703
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,840
it has to deal with moving
the water around at the same
time it's trying to take

1704
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:28,880
on water. Would you agree with
that best practice that, you know,

1705
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:32,360
instead of doing your same two
waterings a day, but you know,

1706
01:39:32,630 --> 01:39:36,680
make them larger in volume
instead, you know, do the,

1707
01:39:36,780 --> 01:39:39,200
do maybe even less than
you would on a normal day,

1708
01:39:39,260 --> 01:39:41,440
but break it up into maybe four waterings?

1709
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:45,160
I feel like there's a couple options there
because usually when I'm dealing with

1710
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:50,160
plants that are outside that are like,
it's a heat dome or whatever, um,

1711
01:39:50,320 --> 01:39:54,920
I water more in early morning when
it's not hot so that the plant can,

1712
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:56,720
I guess if you wanna
call it water balance,

1713
01:39:56,750 --> 01:40:00,280
like then it's not already water
stressed when the heat hits mm-hmm.

1714
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:03,800
<affirmative>. And then I probably would
check more because I, I don't know if,

1715
01:40:03,860 --> 01:40:08,520
if you, like, if it's best practices
and people tend to follow that rule, um,

1716
01:40:08,580 --> 01:40:10,640
far be it for me to go against that. Um,

1717
01:40:10,700 --> 01:40:13,640
but I do think that it's less about
like the volume of water, I think.

1718
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:15,400
I think especially in pots,

1719
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:19,640
there's only so much water that you
can put in there per soil amount, um,

1720
01:40:19,740 --> 01:40:21,440
but it evaporates really fast.

1721
01:40:21,660 --> 01:40:26,000
So I would say that it's better to
water more frequently and then maybe you

1722
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:28,760
don't have to add as much water,
but like in a pot on a, on a patio,

1723
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:32,000
there's only so much water that can fit
in there and it's not gonna be enough to

1724
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:33,920
keep it like cool
throughout the whole day.

1725
01:40:34,740 --> 01:40:38,960
And, and the amount of water is probably
gonna also change about whether or not

1726
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:42,800
you're in a hard walled plastic
or if you are in a fabric pot too,

1727
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:47,200
because those fabric pots, they just
get all hot and they, they start to,

1728
01:40:47,300 --> 01:40:49,520
you know, lose water out
the sides pretty fast.

1729
01:40:50,220 --> 01:40:52,880
So fast. Yeah. And then like
in a garden for example,

1730
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:57,200
I think because of just how much soil
there is, like if you're, if you're in,

1731
01:40:57,340 --> 01:40:58,800
in soil in the ground,

1732
01:40:59,030 --> 01:41:03,000
like a good watering first thing in the
morning before it actually gets really,

1733
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:03,400
really hot,

1734
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:06,560
you might have to check out
on that partway through the
day hard wall like I was

1735
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:07,280
mentioning. But yeah,

1736
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:11,080
absolutely for fabric uts because
they evaporate out the sides as well,

1737
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:14,680
they're just not gonna retain as
much, um, as much water. So Yeah.

1738
01:41:14,860 --> 01:41:17,520
And in which case, like you're gonna
be watering again in two hours anyway.

1739
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:18,560
You don't need to flood the board thing.

1740
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:21,720
<Laugh> <laugh>. Um, right on. Um,

1741
01:41:22,650 --> 01:41:27,480
let's talk a little bit about, um,
uh, supplements. You know, there are,

1742
01:41:27,480 --> 01:41:32,360
there are different types of fungal
supplements that are sold that people say

1743
01:41:32,580 --> 01:41:34,560
to, um, you know, uh,

1744
01:41:34,940 --> 01:41:39,920
mix into your soil so that
when you transplant a pot,

1745
01:41:40,420 --> 01:41:43,600
the the roots will interact with the, um,

1746
01:41:44,350 --> 01:41:49,320
with the supplemented, uh, fungi
and will support root growth.

1747
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:53,840
You know, essentially the, the, the,
the, the connection with the, um,

1748
01:41:54,670 --> 01:41:58,480
between the root hair and the supplement
will wake up the supplement and,

1749
01:41:58,620 --> 01:42:03,320
and that that fungal presence
will, will ease the transition,

1750
01:42:03,820 --> 01:42:05,840
um, of the plant. Um,

1751
01:42:06,340 --> 01:42:10,160
do you see that happening and and
does that kind of support make sense?

1752
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:13,840
I think it does to a certain
extent, but it depends,

1753
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:17,400
like we were talking earlier about the
system that you're coming from and into.

1754
01:42:18,020 --> 01:42:22,800
So it does take some time if we're
talking about like microrisal inoculum or

1755
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:23,640
something like that mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

1756
01:42:23,740 --> 01:42:27,240
it does take time for that process to
happen because like I was alluding to

1757
01:42:27,240 --> 01:42:27,750
earlier,

1758
01:42:27,750 --> 01:42:32,200
it's a conversation between this fungus
that's trying to help out and needs the

1759
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:36,560
plant and the plant which has to prepare
itself to accept the fungus. So it,

1760
01:42:36,580 --> 01:42:39,960
it can be helpful to get
that going early. Um,

1761
01:42:40,300 --> 01:42:43,840
but it really only makes sense,
especially for fungus, I would say,

1762
01:42:44,420 --> 01:42:48,600
if you're going to then put it into a
pot where it's not gonna be disturbed or

1763
01:42:48,630 --> 01:42:50,400
into the garden where it's
not gonna be disturbed.

1764
01:42:51,100 --> 01:42:54,480
And I also think it depends on the health
of the system you're planting into.

1765
01:42:54,630 --> 01:42:58,200
Like in a pot, we have good control
over compost and stuff like that,

1766
01:42:58,540 --> 01:43:02,600
but it's a real old garden remedy to put
a little extra stuff in there when you

1767
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:04,240
transplant into, um,

1768
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:07,480
maybe not as rich of a soil or something
like that to give it a kickstart.

1769
01:43:07,480 --> 01:43:07,860
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

1770
01:43:07,860 --> 01:43:11,520
And I would say if you're doing that with
inoculum two and you're not confident

1771
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:13,680
that the health of the soil
you're planting into is,

1772
01:43:13,740 --> 01:43:16,200
is that great then I'm sure that
would give it a little boost.

1773
01:43:16,420 --> 01:43:19,120
And with bacteria, I think
bacteria are a little bit,

1774
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:22,640
a little bit more broad because
they, again, they don't,

1775
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:26,720
they don't have those like root
type structures like the hfe, um,

1776
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:28,680
they don't have that
hye like the fungus do,

1777
01:43:28,740 --> 01:43:31,800
so they're more likely to just kind
of build up a little film somewhere.

1778
01:43:32,420 --> 01:43:36,360
And that's probably easier to water in,
in different systems or more systems.

1779
01:43:36,380 --> 01:43:39,680
It might apply to more systems.
But, um, I think there's,

1780
01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:42,640
there's no harm in trying, I just, again,

1781
01:43:43,110 --> 01:43:47,280
some systems are just not that set
up to support it afterwards. Mm-hmm.

1782
01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:47,780
<affirmative>.

1783
01:43:47,780 --> 01:43:50,480
In the first set, you,
you mentioned, uh, uh,

1784
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:55,120
two or three different simple
ties that you like to use, um, uh,

1785
01:43:55,180 --> 01:43:57,160
for nutrition for the root zone.

1786
01:43:57,480 --> 01:44:01,080
I was curious whether or not you
have any of those simple recipes, uh,

1787
01:44:01,140 --> 01:44:04,360
for beneficial bacteria to
improve the root growth?

1788
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:07,560
Because you've mentioned beneficial
bacteria a couple different times as

1789
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:12,240
playing, uh, you know, an important
role of, uh, both helping the,

1790
01:44:12,460 --> 01:44:13,360
the roots thrive,

1791
01:44:13,500 --> 01:44:18,440
but also breaking down nutrition for
the entirety of the root zone. Um, I,

1792
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:21,240
I don't know if there is such a thing,
I'm just kind of fishing here, but,

1793
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:25,400
but do you have a beneficial
bacteria prep that can be, uh,

1794
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:27,920
poured into the pot
and, and will help out?

1795
01:44:28,790 --> 01:44:32,080
Yeah, I think, um, I think there's
a bunch of good recipes online,

1796
01:44:32,100 --> 01:44:36,960
but what we often do, um, and what
we do actually in research about, um,

1797
01:44:37,980 --> 01:44:38,200
uh,

1798
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:43,120
beneficial bacteria and how it helps
the root is to take soil or a compost

1799
01:44:43,120 --> 01:44:46,000
that's already full of all
the microbes you need, um,

1800
01:44:46,100 --> 01:44:50,640
and then put it into some
very well aerated water.

1801
01:44:51,140 --> 01:44:54,520
Um, and then you can add a sugar
source of some kind, depending,

1802
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:58,120
I know people talk a lot and
this is also very, I guess,

1803
01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:00,560
veers into sort of compost literature,

1804
01:45:00,780 --> 01:45:05,480
but you can get like green compost
and brown compost and those will have

1805
01:45:05,480 --> 01:45:10,040
different types of microbial
communities in them. Um, and so you can,

1806
01:45:10,180 --> 01:45:14,800
you can be pretty confident that if
you're taking a sample from a healthy soil

1807
01:45:14,860 --> 01:45:17,080
and providing it food like a sugar source,

1808
01:45:17,390 --> 01:45:20,720
that you're gonna get a lot of
beneficial organisms including beneficial

1809
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,840
bacteria. So that's usually what we do
with like a good couple of composts,

1810
01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:28,680
a little bit of molasses like I was
saying earlier. Um, and then some,

1811
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:32,120
something for it to nibble on, like leaves
or like I was talking about earlier,

1812
01:45:32,130 --> 01:45:34,560
brack infer and stuff like that.
And depending on the ratio,

1813
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:35,640
you're gonna get different stuff.

1814
01:45:36,060 --> 01:45:39,800
Now are you talking about a, a brood
compost tea in that and that, uh,

1815
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:44,600
point cuz uh, the, the de the delineation
I'm trying to make is, um, uh,

1816
01:45:44,740 --> 01:45:48,560
you know, adding molasses to, um, a,

1817
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:52,720
a compost brewer if you are going
to let it run for, you know,

1818
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:54,080
36 hours or something.

1819
01:45:54,540 --> 01:45:58,840
And so you're going to incubate those
microbes or in this case bacteria that we

1820
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:02,360
want. Um, and then, and then um,

1821
01:46:02,710 --> 01:46:07,120
root drench that into the pot.
That's one use of molasses.

1822
01:46:07,260 --> 01:46:11,000
But then I also have been
hearing folks talk about, oh,

1823
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:15,120
I want to feed my microbes. And so
they're, they're pouring, you know,

1824
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:19,960
molasses or a water
molasses slurry into the pot

1825
01:46:20,480 --> 01:46:20,970
directly,

1826
01:46:20,970 --> 01:46:25,800
which that sounds super
scary and unbalancing to me
versus in the first example,

1827
01:46:26,290 --> 01:46:30,160
we're going to add enough
molasses that's going to feed the,

1828
01:46:30,300 --> 01:46:35,120
the microbe and bacteria communities and
then we're going to pour it in the pot,

1829
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:38,560
which is going to decrease the, I
don't know, hotness, if you will,

1830
01:46:38,580 --> 01:46:39,560
of the molasses.

1831
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:42,200
Yeah, I guess, I guess like I,

1832
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:47,640
I just assumed we were talking
about culture, um, which is my bad,

1833
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:51,240
I should have, I should have
clarified. Um, when I use compost tea,

1834
01:46:51,740 --> 01:46:56,160
my idea is usually based off of, um,
and I know a lot of people do this too,

1835
01:46:56,630 --> 01:47:00,360
that you're taking a small
amount of something and
trying to encourage growth of

1836
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:02,960
that something into a supplement. Um,

1837
01:47:03,020 --> 01:47:07,680
you can just water in compost water and
it will do just fine and it might take a

1838
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:10,600
little longer. But remembering that
a lot of these bacteria and fungus,

1839
01:47:10,630 --> 01:47:14,040
like they eat the stuff that's
already in your soil. So like,

1840
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:16,200
rather than add molasses, you
could probably add leaflet,

1841
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:19,360
litter or compost or something
like that to help them. Um,

1842
01:47:19,420 --> 01:47:20,800
cuz that's what they're
eating at the end of the day.

1843
01:47:21,060 --> 01:47:23,600
So when I'm talking about
molasses and aerated teas,

1844
01:47:23,780 --> 01:47:28,240
I'm definitely talking about a brewing
tea where you're trying to grow

1845
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:30,240
microbes for watering in later.

1846
01:47:30,450 --> 01:47:30,880
Great.

1847
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:35,040
I just wanted to make that delineation
really sharp since we talk about both

1848
01:47:35,590 --> 01:47:39,640
aerated compost tees and
then compost extracts. Right.

1849
01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:41,880
Which won't be aerated and um,

1850
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:45,320
I don't want anybody to get those
confused and just like, you know,

1851
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:47,720
freebase molasses into
their pot, you know,

1852
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:52,800
<laugh> totally fair because it happens
unfortunately. I I and then, and,

1853
01:47:52,820 --> 01:47:56,240
and then, and then they get a decent
plant and then, then now they swear by it.

1854
01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:59,160
Right? And it's like, oh, but
that's, that's dangerous. So.

1855
01:47:59,300 --> 01:48:01,960
Oh yeah. And like superstition,
you, you, you know,

1856
01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:05,480
you have the things that make you work
and, and like if, if it worked for you,

1857
01:48:05,700 --> 01:48:09,600
you're much less likely to not do
exactly what you just did because it did

1858
01:48:09,630 --> 01:48:10,680
already work for you.

1859
01:48:11,100 --> 01:48:14,640
And there isn't really any
harm in watering compost in,

1860
01:48:14,660 --> 01:48:16,080
cuz it's already got all these nutrients.

1861
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:19,280
If anything you're just freeing up the
loose nutrients that were already free in

1862
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:22,440
the compost and watering them
through your soil column. And then,

1863
01:48:22,860 --> 01:48:26,040
and then you also have all those
little microbes that come with. So if,

1864
01:48:26,060 --> 01:48:30,120
if you don't have an
aerated compost setup, um,

1865
01:48:30,500 --> 01:48:31,760
for brewing compost teas,

1866
01:48:31,940 --> 01:48:34,400
you can certainly just take a
couple of handfuls of compost,

1867
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:36,600
put it on top and water through
and it'll do the same thing.

1868
01:48:36,600 --> 01:48:39,000
It might just take a little longer
cuz you haven't encouraged that,

1869
01:48:39,060 --> 01:48:43,560
the growth of those microbes in the same
way. I don't know about the sugar. I,

1870
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,160
I tend to agree with
the, like it might be,

1871
01:48:46,180 --> 01:48:48,600
it might get things a little
toasty in there. Yeah.

1872
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:53,520
<Laugh>. Right on. So before I
go to the, the last question, um,

1873
01:48:53,620 --> 01:48:57,920
of our chat, um, I wanna just
throw a wide net here. Um, uh,

1874
01:48:58,460 --> 01:49:03,240
is there anything else that we haven't
talked about today that can be done, uh,

1875
01:49:03,380 --> 01:49:08,040
to support, um, healthy
root life and root growth?

1876
01:49:08,340 --> 01:49:09,160
Um, this is,

1877
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:14,040
I just wanna mop up any other best
practices that I may not have known to

1878
01:49:14,100 --> 01:49:18,960
ask you, but you, because, um,
because you are rudely <laugh>, uh,

1879
01:49:18,980 --> 01:49:22,960
you, you, you might know. So is there,
is there anything else that you, uh,

1880
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:24,200
would suggest or recommend?

1881
01:49:25,660 --> 01:49:26,140
I think,

1882
01:49:26,140 --> 01:49:29,100
I think we've kind of covered a lot of
areas that I would talk about with root

1883
01:49:29,100 --> 01:49:29,400
health,

1884
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:34,380
but I think one big one is like trying
to avoid disturbing the root system and,

1885
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:39,420
and really going for some sort of
balance because I feel like we often

1886
01:49:39,450 --> 01:49:40,740
just kind of manhandle them.

1887
01:49:40,810 --> 01:49:44,020
They're this mysterious thing under
there that we don't really think about.

1888
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:46,740
And if you're gonna go
for a healthy plant,

1889
01:49:46,740 --> 01:49:50,120
you need both a healthy
top half and bottom half.

1890
01:49:50,300 --> 01:49:52,680
So being gentle with them trying to,

1891
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,320
trying to think about the different
things that you can do to support them,

1892
01:49:55,410 --> 01:49:58,800
especially the watering part. Um,
we don't want stressed out routes,

1893
01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:02,240
so making sure that you're keeping
them wet and able to do their job.

1894
01:50:02,600 --> 01:50:04,560
I think that's a big one. Um, but I think,

1895
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:08,280
I think all the things we've talked about
today are good ways to try and promote

1896
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:08,860
root health,

1897
01:50:08,860 --> 01:50:12,240
but at the end of the day it's up to the
plant and you can usually tell if the

1898
01:50:12,260 --> 01:50:15,000
top half is healthy, the bottom
half is probably pretty good too.

1899
01:50:15,170 --> 01:50:17,040
Right on. It does seem like, you know,

1900
01:50:17,060 --> 01:50:20,720
we keep on coming back to the thing
that our cans plants like, uh,

1901
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:24,480
the most is balance and consistency,
right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if,

1902
01:50:24,480 --> 01:50:27,000
if you can go slow and steady a, you know,

1903
01:50:27,140 --> 01:50:31,560
do the same thing every day and try to
keep it a consistent environment, um,

1904
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:35,000
while that is so hard, you know,
based on our different bio regions,

1905
01:50:35,060 --> 01:50:36,360
it it is the name of the game.

1906
01:50:36,850 --> 01:50:38,240
Absolutely. And especially,

1907
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:42,000
I guess the other thing I would
mention is we focus very much,

1908
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:46,400
especially on a plant like cannabis where
we have an end yield that we're really

1909
01:50:46,400 --> 01:50:48,320
interested in that it's,

1910
01:50:48,420 --> 01:50:52,080
you still have to respect the process
of growing it and making sure that the

1911
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:53,080
whole plant is healthy.

1912
01:50:53,340 --> 01:50:56,320
Cuz at the end of the day that one
little part of the plant you're concerned

1913
01:50:56,320 --> 01:51:00,640
about relies on all of the rest of the
plant to grow properly and in the way

1914
01:51:00,840 --> 01:51:03,240
that we want. So don't
neglect your roots. Yeah.

1915
01:51:03,270 --> 01:51:07,120
Amen. Right on. All right, so for this,
this last question, it's, it's fun.

1916
01:51:07,220 --> 01:51:08,760
It is, it is still a root question,

1917
01:51:08,820 --> 01:51:12,880
but it's coming from a totally different
direction. So, um, all the way back,

1918
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:16,680
like, I don't know, four, four or five
years ago or so on, uh, shaping fire,

1919
01:51:16,710 --> 01:51:21,320
episode 26, um, I interviewed
your neighbor up there in,

1920
01:51:21,620 --> 01:51:25,720
uh, bc, Natasha Riz. Uh, are you,
are you familiar with Natasha?

1921
01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:28,920
I am. Oh, fantastic. We had quite a
few nice dinners together. <laugh>.

1922
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:31,480
Excellent. Well, we like
her too. And, um, and,

1923
01:51:31,500 --> 01:51:36,120
and we had her on the show to talk
about root ball medicine because the

1924
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:41,000
cannabis roots are filled with,
um, all sorts of cannabis,

1925
01:51:41,540 --> 01:51:45,720
uh, um, biochemicals, I,
I'll guess I'll say, um,

1926
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:50,400
that do things like, uh, um,
uh, reduce inflammation and,

1927
01:51:50,620 --> 01:51:54,560
and, and other things that we tend to
use the tops of the cannabis plant for.

1928
01:51:55,340 --> 01:51:58,160
And, and there are these
biochemicals like there's,

1929
01:51:58,160 --> 01:52:02,760
there's triterpenes in there and the one
that most people focus on is Frieden,

1930
01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:07,480
F r I E D e L I N, for
anybody who that's new.

1931
01:52:07,620 --> 01:52:09,480
But then there's also a
whole bunch of other ones,

1932
01:52:09,480 --> 01:52:12,160
which I could totally butcher
the names of. But the,

1933
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:15,120
the point I wanna get to is that, um, uh,

1934
01:52:15,330 --> 01:52:19,480
since that show I have had audience folks
from across the country reach out to

1935
01:52:19,480 --> 01:52:20,313
me and say, Hey,

1936
01:52:20,730 --> 01:52:25,680
we've started making these tinctures
and solves from the cannabis root

1937
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:28,840
zone and we're getting really
good, um, effects from them,

1938
01:52:29,460 --> 01:52:34,080
but we wanna know how to grow
roots that have gotten more

1939
01:52:34,700 --> 01:52:39,680
of these various steriles
and alkaloids and triterpenes

1940
01:52:39,820 --> 01:52:44,280
and these, these these useful
delicious medicinal biochemicals.

1941
01:52:44,660 --> 01:52:48,600
And they ask me, what can
I do for the plant so that,

1942
01:52:48,780 --> 01:52:53,720
so that my roots are more rich
with these, these, these target,

1943
01:52:54,660 --> 01:52:57,680
um, you know, biologicals. And, you know,

1944
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:00,000
I don't have an answer for
that except to say, you know,

1945
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:04,040
a thriving plant will probably
produce more of those.

1946
01:53:04,390 --> 01:53:09,120
Like it does more resin and more
terpenes, but like, I don't know,

1947
01:53:09,150 --> 01:53:12,440
like I just made, I just made that up.
I've just given my best educated guess.

1948
01:53:12,440 --> 01:53:16,960
Right. Um, but um, this is so similar to
the kind of research that you're doing.

1949
01:53:17,220 --> 01:53:20,360
I'm wondering if you have
a more educated guess.

1950
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:25,480
I actually love this
question. I think that, um,

1951
01:53:26,510 --> 01:53:28,200
like my, my work, uh,

1952
01:53:28,500 --> 01:53:32,960
at UIC is very focused on
trying to use plants like plant

1953
01:53:32,990 --> 01:53:36,520
processes that the plant
already performs, um,

1954
01:53:36,740 --> 01:53:41,120
to try and find things that
are medicinal about it. Um,

1955
01:53:41,260 --> 01:53:43,920
and this kind of does exactly that.

1956
01:53:44,140 --> 01:53:47,640
So when we think of the different types
of molecules that we find medicinal in a

1957
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:52,240
plant, they often have some sort of
what we call, uh, broadly bioactivity,

1958
01:53:52,250 --> 01:53:56,800
which just means that it has some sort
of job that it can do in a biological

1959
01:53:56,860 --> 01:54:00,160
system. And like a common example
of that might be like an antibiotic.

1960
01:54:00,390 --> 01:54:03,680
Like if we take it, we
get rid infection, hooray.

1961
01:54:04,220 --> 01:54:08,000
And it's usually from something that is
also trying to fight off an infection.

1962
01:54:08,180 --> 01:54:12,560
So a lot of our antibiotics might be
from derived from a bacteria that was

1963
01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:15,720
trying to fight off another bacteria.
We found that it worked, so we use it.

1964
01:54:15,910 --> 01:54:17,600
Same with antifungals
and things like that.

1965
01:54:18,180 --> 01:54:22,160
So my work is mostly
trying to decide, okay,

1966
01:54:22,220 --> 01:54:26,200
if this is something that plants
already make these molecules for,

1967
01:54:26,790 --> 01:54:30,400
what if we stress them out a little
bit in this way? So for example,

1968
01:54:30,420 --> 01:54:31,560
if you wanted an antibiotic,

1969
01:54:32,190 --> 01:54:35,240
then you maybe give it a little bit
of an infection or something like that

1970
01:54:35,240 --> 01:54:39,640
because then it might make more
of that antibiotic for you. Um,

1971
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:44,200
I don't know how this translates to root
medicine necessarily because a lot of

1972
01:54:44,200 --> 01:54:48,880
these things we don't fully
understand, um, what they do.

1973
01:54:48,990 --> 01:54:50,400
Like we know that when we take them,

1974
01:54:50,590 --> 01:54:53,400
they have a lot of medicinal aspects
and especially with cannabinoids,

1975
01:54:53,400 --> 01:54:57,920
they have so many different, um, things
that they do for us that they've, like,

1976
01:54:57,990 --> 01:55:02,960
they've been all sorts of different
things that we have found out about them.

1977
01:55:03,420 --> 01:55:06,960
Um, but a lot of those aren't things
that plants do, right? Mm-hmm.

1978
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:09,320
<affirmative>, like they don't
like for anti-seizure, for example,

1979
01:55:09,350 --> 01:55:10,960
like plants don't have seizures,

1980
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:12,800
so we can't make them have a
seizure to make more of that.

1981
01:55:13,060 --> 01:55:16,120
But for some of these things, like that
molecule you were just talking about,

1982
01:55:16,780 --> 01:55:20,000
if it has an antifungal
activity or something like that,

1983
01:55:20,070 --> 01:55:23,520
then then maybe a plant
that has a fungal um,

1984
01:55:24,350 --> 01:55:26,680
problem might be good.

1985
01:55:27,180 --> 01:55:30,960
And then the other thing would be we don't
want plants that are too stressed out

1986
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:34,760
though, because it still needs to have
energy to fight off whatever you're,

1987
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:39,200
you're giving it. Um, so it might
be something where you can, um,

1988
01:55:40,030 --> 01:55:42,240
just expose it to any bacteria,

1989
01:55:42,310 --> 01:55:46,120
like maybe a compost tea and maybe it
has some friends and maybe some not so

1990
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:48,080
friendly bacteria in the compost tea.

1991
01:55:48,540 --> 01:55:52,400
And maybe that will stimulate it to
make a little something extra. And I'm,

1992
01:55:52,540 --> 01:55:56,400
I'm just gonna put the caveat that I'm
not telling you to go out and like try

1993
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:58,560
and make your plant super
sick or anything <laugh>.

1994
01:55:58,710 --> 01:56:00,760
Dump fusarium in 'em or
something, right? Yeah.

1995
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,280
Please don't do that. Um,
but there's ways that we can,

1996
01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:07,240
same with our own bodies, like,
um, being exposed outside and,

1997
01:56:07,380 --> 01:56:11,280
and those kind of things or eating
organic foods that have things on them and

1998
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,000
those kind of things. Like we know
that, um, that if we're too sterile,

1999
01:56:14,260 --> 01:56:18,520
our systems aren't happy. So maybe
the suggestion would be to just, um,

2000
01:56:18,630 --> 01:56:23,000
feed them some compost teas and some of
the stuff that we've been talking about

2001
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:23,960
today, um,

2002
01:56:23,980 --> 01:56:27,440
so that the roots are not only healthy
but also are interacting with other

2003
01:56:27,640 --> 01:56:31,120
organisms. And then maybe
that will stimulate more of
a response. Just a guess.

2004
01:56:31,270 --> 01:56:31,560
Yeah.

2005
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:34,160
Yeah. I like that guess. Um, and while
you were saying that, I thought maybe,

2006
01:56:34,210 --> 01:56:35,560
maybe we could get that from,

2007
01:56:35,750 --> 01:56:39,360
from watering in some non-local

2008
01:56:40,130 --> 01:56:42,200
indigenous microorganisms, right? I mean,

2009
01:56:42,200 --> 01:56:45,600
we talk about IMOs all the time and
how much we love them and, and how,

2010
01:56:45,660 --> 01:56:50,040
how helpful it is to use localized
ones. Well, well maybe if we were to,

2011
01:56:50,180 --> 01:56:54,160
to to use some I m o from
a different environment,

2012
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:58,360
since that will have a whole bunch of
strangers to this environment mm-hmm.

2013
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:03,040
<affirmative>, maybe you can
get a similar, uh, defensive,
medicinal capability,

2014
01:57:03,540 --> 01:57:07,880
um, without having to go
so far as to, you know,

2015
01:57:08,280 --> 01:57:11,400
actually cause uh, damage to the
root zone. Just, just threaten it.

2016
01:57:12,110 --> 01:57:14,120
Yeah. And like, this
might even be like we,

2017
01:57:14,300 --> 01:57:19,240
we know that microbial communities are
pretty local and like even maybe local to

2018
01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:22,080
your garden versus like across
the street, down the hall.

2019
01:57:22,140 --> 01:57:25,200
So maybe it's just as simple as like if
you live next to a bunch of oak trees

2020
01:57:25,540 --> 01:57:27,480
and your friend lives next
to a bunch of pine trees,

2021
01:57:27,480 --> 01:57:30,520
maybe you just get some soil from
there and water it in. Right.

2022
01:57:30,520 --> 01:57:31,680
On. Cool. Well thanks,

2023
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:35,160
thanks for going down that theoretical
line with me just because, um, you know,

2024
01:57:35,500 --> 01:57:38,000
you're, you're, you're my
root expert and I mean,

2025
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:40,960
I know I'm gonna be getting this
question more and so at least I've got,

2026
01:57:41,180 --> 01:57:44,440
you know, more to say even though
we don't know exactly what it is.

2027
01:57:44,440 --> 01:57:45,273
So thanks for that.

2028
01:57:45,620 --> 01:57:46,260
No problem.

2029
01:57:46,260 --> 01:57:48,360
And thank you Sarah, for
joining us again. You know,

2030
01:57:48,500 --> 01:57:50,640
I'm so glad that we got a chance to, uh,

2031
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:55,000
continue the conversation that we
started in episode 99 about Roots,

2032
01:57:55,000 --> 01:58:00,000
because there really is so much
there and that really showed me how

2033
01:58:00,030 --> 01:58:04,240
much I take the, the, the
roots themselves for, um,

2034
01:58:04,700 --> 01:58:05,480
for granted.

2035
01:58:05,480 --> 01:58:08,960
I talk a lot about the Rhizosphere and
the root zone and the community and all

2036
01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:11,960
that, but specifically
the roots. I just kind of,

2037
01:58:12,040 --> 01:58:13,800
I just kind of take 'em for granted. And,

2038
01:58:13,900 --> 01:58:16,520
and the more questions I
asked last time we talked,

2039
01:58:16,900 --> 01:58:21,120
the more I realized I didn't know. So
thank you so much for, um, uh, for,

2040
01:58:21,220 --> 01:58:26,160
for joining us and sharing your, you know,
good cheer and expertise and um, and,

2041
01:58:26,160 --> 01:58:29,320
and helping us, uh, grok a little
more about what's going on, um,

2042
01:58:29,320 --> 01:58:31,280
underneath the surface in our pots.

2043
01:58:31,700 --> 01:58:33,920
Oh, my pleasure. Thank you
so much for having me again.

2044
01:58:34,410 --> 01:58:39,280
Right on dear listeners. So if you
are interested in, uh, reaching out,

2045
01:58:39,620 --> 01:58:43,560
uh, to Sarah Lane or just
to kind of follow her along,

2046
01:58:43,820 --> 01:58:47,600
she doesn't do a lot of social media cuz
she's focused most of her time on the

2047
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:49,280
research. But, uh, there are,

2048
01:58:49,280 --> 01:58:53,800
there's one place that you can follow
along and that's at her Twitter and uh,

2049
01:58:53,860 --> 01:58:56,200
her Twitter is Exu Rootly.

2050
01:58:56,340 --> 01:59:00,920
So that is E X U D E T T e

2051
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:06,480
R O O t L y. And, and if you have, um,

2052
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:10,600
a question, uh, that you have not
been able to find the answer for, uh,

2053
01:59:10,620 --> 01:59:14,400
out there on the internet or, or an
answer that you actually believe, um,

2054
01:59:14,530 --> 01:59:18,600
Sarah does, uh, invite you
to write to her directly. Um,

2055
01:59:18,820 --> 01:59:21,800
but make sure that you give her
some time to, uh, get back to you.

2056
01:59:21,820 --> 01:59:24,600
Cuz remember she is in a
doctorate program right now. And,

2057
01:59:24,660 --> 01:59:27,440
and her email is S Lane.

2058
01:59:27,820 --> 01:59:32,120
So that's s l A N E uv.ca.

2059
01:59:32,300 --> 01:59:35,520
So that's uv ic.ca.

2060
01:59:36,620 --> 01:59:40,300
You can find more episodes of the
Shaping Fire podcast and subscribe to the

2061
01:59:40,300 --> 01:59:43,660
show@shapingfire.com and
wherever you get your podcasts.

2062
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:44,940
If you enjoyed the show,

2063
01:59:44,940 --> 01:59:47,620
we'd really appreciate it if you would
leave a positive review of the podcast.

2064
01:59:48,140 --> 01:59:52,180
Wherever you download your view will help
others find the show so they can enjoy

2065
01:59:52,180 --> 01:59:54,100
it too. On the Shaping Fire website,

2066
01:59:54,100 --> 01:59:58,060
you can also subscribe to the newsletter
for insights into the latest cannabis

2067
01:59:58,170 --> 02:00:02,220
news exclusive videos and giveaways
on the Shaping Fire website.

2068
02:00:02,220 --> 02:00:04,940
You also find transcripts
of today's podcast as well.

2069
02:00:05,480 --> 02:00:06,780
Be sure to follow on Instagram.

2070
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:11,780
For all original content not found on
the podcast that's at Shaping Fire and at

2071
02:00:11,780 --> 02:00:13,140
shingle los on Instagram,

2072
02:00:13,600 --> 02:00:17,180
be sure to check out Shaping Fire
YouTube channel for exclusive interviews,

2073
02:00:17,250 --> 02:00:18,900
farm tours and cannabis lectures.

2074
02:00:19,450 --> 02:00:22,940
Does your company wanna reach our
national audience of cannabis enthusiasts?

2075
02:00:23,390 --> 02:00:26,540
Email hotspot shaping
fire.com to find out how.

2076
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:30,580
Thanks for listening to Shaping Fire.
I've been your host, Shangle Los.