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Compost is one of those words in natural
farming that means a lot of different

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things to different people. And yet
we have conversations about compost,

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assuming we all mean the same thing.

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I certainly didn't grow up
around compost or compost tea,

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00:00:21,130 --> 00:00:24,930
and I only really started considering
it when I started focusing on natural

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farming techniques as an
adult. And then of course,

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I read Teaming with Microbes by Jeff
Lo Fells and got really interested.

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If you've been listening to
Shaping Fire for a while,

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you've probably been sitting right here
with me as I had some of my biggest

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breakthroughs and understanding what
compost is and why it is the essential

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building block for natural farming.
Today is one of those shows,

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and I bet we learn a lot
about compost together.

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00:00:51,020 --> 00:00:54,530
If you wanna learn about cannabis health
cultivation and technique efficiently

14
00:00:54,530 --> 00:00:57,570
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00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:31,130
You are listening to Shaping Fire,
and I'm your host, Shago Lows.

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00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:35,450
My returning guest today is
Soil biologist Layton Morrison.

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Layton is a lifelong enthusiast of
both aquaponics and living soil.

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00:01:40,550 --> 00:01:45,410
His obsession with Biosphere two led him
to set up an aquaculture at the Rodeo

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00:01:45,410 --> 00:01:50,250
Institute. Layton worked with world
renowned biologist, Dr. Elaine Ingham,

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blending his aquaculture byproducts
with compost and wound castings to prove

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that natural inputs could replace
synthetics in commercial cultivation.

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Layton consults widely for
agriculture, soil regeneration,

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00:02:03,170 --> 00:02:05,890
and commercial land management
projects throughout the United States,

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including recently working on the
Wallace Annenburg Wildlife Crossing over

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00:02:10,330 --> 00:02:12,170
Highway 1 0 1 in California.

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00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,730
That will be the largest
wildlife crossing in the world.

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00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,810
Lateness currently founder of Kingdom
Aquaponics and invented their line of

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living, compost and compost t
Living soil products. Layton's,

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a sought after speaker and co-host of
a weekly podcast on the Future Cannabis

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00:02:27,970 --> 00:02:29,050
Project YouTube channel.

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00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,530
Layton has been on shaping fire
a few times before episode 54

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00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:37,970
about geology and biomimicry
and living soil cultivation.

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00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,570
This was the episode that brought Layton's
popular Soil Horizons concept into

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00:02:42,690 --> 00:02:46,690
mass adoption episode
59 on water and watering

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00:02:47,060 --> 00:02:48,410
episode 82,

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about properly using aerobic and anaerobic
soil amendments to meet the needs of

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your soil at different stages.

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00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:58,930
In episode 87 where we do a
debrief on the first cycle of the,

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00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,960
the shaping fire indoor growing tent,

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00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,520
where we test regenerative
techniques indoors,

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00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120
including his horizons
model for living soil.

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So you might ask Shago, why bring
back a guest for a fifth time?

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And that's a fair question
and I have two answers. First,

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have you heard any of the Latent
Morrison episodes? They're incredible.

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The depth in them is hard to ignore.

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Layton has the scientific background,
plus is an ardent natural farmer,

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and he actually grows stuff
and doesn't like live in a lab.

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He's kind of like Indiana Jones in a
way. He has the academics down solid,

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but he spends most of his time in the
field applying these skills and orchards

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and soil regeneration projects, research
and development, cannabis cultivation.

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And he's even a consultant
for the Dallas Cowboys,

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00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,680
keeping their grass practice
field thriving. Second,

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I looked for someone
else to be on this show.

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I got referrals from friends and peers.

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Everyone I looked into was an expert at
making thermal compost, scoping compost,

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and teaching it for this episode,

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though I needed a scientist who could
look beyond this one category of thermal

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compost to the larger picture
of soil microbe inoculation,

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which is what I'm most interested in,

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and I think is what people actually want
when they make compost tea with thermal

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compost. So in the end,

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I called up late and I asked
him to join me for this episode,

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and that I wanted to go big
and cover a lot in one episode.

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During today's episode,

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the first set is a review of
different varieties of compost,

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their benefits and challenges with a
special consideration for the home grower.

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During the second set,

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we talk about creating the highest
amount of activity in compost,

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cold compost and how to use
it without fear of pathogens.

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And we wrap up with the third set
discussing compost grain structure,

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how to make premium cold
compost, cold compost extract,

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and even make compost shelf stable
for use throughout the year.

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Welcome back to Shaping Fire Layton.

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Uh, thank you Chango.
I look forward to it.

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As always. Yeah, man, it's
always great to have you here.

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So let's get right into it. You know, uh,

87
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I've been thinking about doing this show
about the varieties of compost for some

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time, um,

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but I really didn't decide to pull the
trigger on it until you and I had that

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conversation just a few days ago
where you started kind of like

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teasing apart, um,

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this compost question I had in
my head. And, and, and you know,

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even though the mo the the
goal of today is to kind of,

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uh, talk about the, the science of, um,

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the sci science and the
biology of soil structure. Um,

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I wanna start with the rather mundane, um,

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question that I approached
you with because, um,

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even though we're eventually gonna go
somewhere heavier and more biological,

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I can't be the only one who
is a cultivator who, who,

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uh,

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looks at these different varieties
of compost that we have available to

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us and,

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and trying to figure out which
ones are most viable and which ones

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are like, you know, garbage
and I shouldn't even consider.
So, um, so, so let's,

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let's go through the list of the,

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the six varieties of compost
that I have come in contact in my

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world and, and let's just talk
about each of them individually,

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um, so that when, when
cultivators who in, um,

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come in contact with these other types
of composts know how to judge them. Okay,

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00:06:34,530 --> 00:06:34,890
so,

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so let's start with the
most common kind of compost,

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which is, uh, the bagged stuff
that they sell at the store. And,

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and I'm not even really talking about
necessarily like really good quality

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bagged compost, which I'm
assuming there is such a thing.

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I'm talking about the kind of stuff
that they sell for six bucks, um,

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in front of the grocery store in
the spring. And, um, you know,

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that stuff come different kinds of
company bag those up where, where I live,

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um, there's a company that
actually collects, um, uh,

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yard refuse yard and
garden and food refuse, um,

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from in front of people's houses.

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And then they take that to their
big facility and they air quote,

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make compost, and, and
then when it's done,

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they put it in a bag and they sell it
back to us for six bucks. Right? And so,

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um, you know, it says compost and, and,

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and so many people are buying it for their
gardens and to make their raised beds

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and lots of people putting it in
pots. But you know, I'm by, you know,

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when I used to buy these, I, you know,
you buy it and you rip it open and, um,

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and I would smell ammonia and it
would, it would often have white on it.

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And I'm all like, I don't,

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I I don't think that's my cel that
looks like some kind of white rot or

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something. Um, and then when, you know,

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as I've gotten more mature in the
living soil scene and I've seen the

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kinds of composts that, um, living soil

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artisans make, I'm like, How,

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how dare they sell this bag stuff?
Is compost, is it even compost?

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So, so let's talk about that
first. Um, kind of explain to me,

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I mean, I know each company makes
it different, but I think that by,

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probably by the time it's in the bag,
they're probably pretty similar, So,

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so teach me a little bit about
what my expectations should be for

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00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,760
that compost that's in
a sealed plastic bag.

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00:08:35,820 --> 00:08:39,760
All right. Um, so let's start
with the word compost. Uh,

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00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,960
the word compost is a
process. It's not a product.

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It's not a a So I think
that that's where the real

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00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,360
conversation, um,
begins, is that okay? Um,

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there are a lot of different
types of compost, and again,

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00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,720
because I don't have a better
word, um, to choose, um,

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00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,640
we're gonna use that word, we'll
get into what it really means, um,

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00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,160
I'm sure in another set.
But for the beginning,

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let's just say this is a compost.

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So when you smell ammonia, um,

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that is part of theil
breakdown of organic matter,

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00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:23,680
um, you said, well, you, you called it
junk. Well, nature doesn't make junk.

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00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:24,590
<Laugh>.

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00:09:24,590 --> 00:09:28,960
Nature just breaks down,
um, organic matter, um,

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into carbon and nitrogen. Um,

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00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,200
all living things are made of carbon
and nitrogen along with, you know,

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00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,800
other elements, uh, from
the el of periodic tables.

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00:09:39,810 --> 00:09:43,640
So just for the sake of
keep again, simple, Um,

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00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,280
when you smell the ammonia you are
in still in what we call a thermal

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00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,880
fillic phase. You haven't, you haven't
shifted into the mesophilic. Um,

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00:09:52,930 --> 00:09:57,920
so that means that active decomposition
is happening and that ammonia smell

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00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,840
is the release, the byproduct
of the thermal fights,

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um, knocking the carbon and the
nitrogen off. Um, they can't,

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00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,320
they can't eat too much nitrogen.
They really are there for the carbon.

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And so that nitrogen is being
released in an amcal gas,

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ammonia gas. Um, so that
product is, is unstable.

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If you apply that to, um,
like healthy young plants,

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00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:28,040
you're gonna kill them because
basically the thermo fights are going to

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00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,320
stealing carbon and
releasing the nitrogen, um,

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00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,240
and therefore starve the plant out
because the plant actually wants the

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00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,040
nitrogen, or, or I should
say the mesophilic bacteria
want that nitrogen, um,

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00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,480
to break it down and release it to the
plant so that they get more exudates.

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00:10:44,810 --> 00:10:49,160
So you, you're in a, you're in kind
of a bind. And, and the other thing,

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00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,800
the white you saw, well,
that's actually actin bacteria.

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A lot of people confuse, uh, that
white for masum, but it isn't.

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00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,840
It's just basically, um,

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the actin bacteria and it's
indicating heat. It's that,

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that there's still quite a bit of
heat present in, in that compost.

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00:11:08,730 --> 00:11:11,960
So that being said, um,

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00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:16,800
you're dealing with a product
that is, um, unstable.

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00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:21,800
It wouldn't even be considered, you
know, poem, which we'll get into later.

182
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,200
But let's, let's keep
me on track here. Right.

183
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,640
On. Um, so the, the, the, the
stuff that's in these bags,

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00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,840
it sounds like it'd be fair
to just call it immature,

185
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:35,280
like it is if if our
goal was it was a thermal

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00:11:35,530 --> 00:11:40,320
compost, um, I think what you're, I
think you're suggesting to me that like,

187
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:41,440
like it wasn't finished.

188
00:11:41,610 --> 00:11:45,560
Correct. It was unstable. I see. I think
unfinished is a, is a great way to.

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00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:50,440
Put it. All right, so, so, um,
as, as we know from anything, uh,

190
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,000
that's made at a scaled level,
like, like even cannabis flowers,

191
00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:59,000
if you're scaling things up so
often the product that comes out

192
00:11:59,730 --> 00:12:03,920
is, um, you know, not premium.
And, and so these companies, this,

193
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,240
these companies are making like,

194
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,200
just like thousands and thousands of these
bags and they're kind of rushing them

195
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:09,460
through.

196
00:12:09,460 --> 00:12:14,320
And so the fact that we are
seeing that bacteria and we're

197
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:19,040
smelling the ammonia and it's
still breaking down, um, uh,

198
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:21,840
it's essentially just saying
that they rush the process.

199
00:12:22,810 --> 00:12:24,080
Ex. Absolutely. And,

200
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,480
and the other thing you have to keep in
mind too is that at these compost yards,

201
00:12:27,830 --> 00:12:31,000
they don't have the ability to
separate the greens and the browns.

202
00:12:31,810 --> 00:12:36,560
So that's probably one of the most
critical, um, pieces of making,

203
00:12:37,050 --> 00:12:39,600
um, especially biological compost,

204
00:12:39,850 --> 00:12:42,480
is that you have the correct
ratio of greens to browns.

205
00:12:42,570 --> 00:12:44,960
If you have too much greens,
you have too much nitrogen,

206
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,880
it's gonna go hypertherm fillic, and
there's nothing you can do to stop. Well,

207
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,000
there is, we'll get into
that I'm sure later,

208
00:12:52,820 --> 00:12:56,920
but there's nothing you
can do to prevent that

209
00:12:56,990 --> 00:13:01,040
paraphilic phase from continuing until it,

210
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,600
there's no nitrogen left,
um, to be broken off, um,

211
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,760
to steal the carbon. So that being said,

212
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,520
if you can manage your
greens and browns, um,

213
00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:17,600
you can put a predetermined point
in time and say, Well, you know,

214
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,480
after six months,

215
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,360
this is gonna ha be gone through
the thermoy and into the mesophilic.

216
00:13:22,390 --> 00:13:26,320
Mesophilic means stable,
um, safe to apply, will not,

217
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,480
will not steal nitrogen from my plant,

218
00:13:29,180 --> 00:13:34,000
and will be a suitable source
of, of soil organic carbon, um,

219
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,760
that will provide all
kinds of benefits to soil.

220
00:13:38,490 --> 00:13:42,680
So, um, so is there a use
case for this, right? I mean,

221
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:46,720
you said don't put, don't use this stuff
on young plants, um, because it'll,

222
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,160
it'll steal from them. Well, I would
naturally take that and say, Well, then I,

223
00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:56,200
I sure as hell don't wanna put this
in my beds and put my clones or my,

224
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,000
my seed starts into it, and
then I'm all like, Well,

225
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,600
I probably don't want to use this
in my pots either. Like, is there,

226
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,320
is there any use for these this?

227
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,320
Oh, boy, that's, that's a
great question. So, um, yeah,

228
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,720
it's a herbicide <laugh>.

229
00:14:12,450 --> 00:14:13,880
It will kill plans.

230
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:18,640
Yeah. Yeah. So in my
workout here in Cali, um,

231
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,240
I'm working with a lot of different
farmers and a lot of different, um,

232
00:14:21,460 --> 00:14:25,480
you know, growers of different
things. When I found out that, um,

233
00:14:26,410 --> 00:14:30,020
this company, compost company
that I've been working with, um,

234
00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:33,740
was using it as a herbicide, I was
horrified. It was like, Oh my God,

235
00:14:34,210 --> 00:14:36,980
what are we doing? And then I
stopped and went, Wait a minute,

236
00:14:38,450 --> 00:14:41,740
I don't care if it's
herbicide. It's still carbon,

237
00:14:41,970 --> 00:14:46,660
it's still getting put into the soil.
It's still providing a longer term,

238
00:14:47,190 --> 00:14:51,800
um, source of fertility and
CEC cat on exchange capacity,

239
00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:56,680
um, which is a valuable resource for, uh,

240
00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,560
providing long term fertility to
plants, whether they're, you know,

241
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,720
strawberries or trees, it doesn't matter.

242
00:15:03,130 --> 00:15:07,680
So the fact that they're actually
taking this stuff and turning it in, um,

243
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,480
is actually a benefit because
when you stop thermo fillic phase

244
00:15:12,490 --> 00:15:17,160
by taking this immature compost
and you till it into the soil,

245
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:22,040
you've, you've, you've basically
prevented those thermal fights from, um,

246
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,760
producing that excess gas.

247
00:15:25,290 --> 00:15:30,280
So therefore you've actually
put some acal or nitrate

248
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,960
based fertilizer into play
because it's no longer

249
00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:39,280
gassing off. So it's, it actually
has a couple different benefits. Um,

250
00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:44,360
so that being said, what do
you do with this compost? Um,

251
00:15:44,430 --> 00:15:48,520
I, I would use it as a, a
top dressing for, for a,

252
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:53,080
a mature lawn or a top dressing
for a mature tree. I wouldn't,

253
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,760
I wouldn't go heavy with it, but I
would definitely like sprinkle on a,

254
00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,280
you know, half an inch and then
just kind of massage it in, um,

255
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,880
because you're going to get some
benefit from it in, in that regard.

256
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,600
But no way would I put seed starts or
clones or anything else into it because

257
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,440
you, you're not gonna get a good result.

258
00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:14,920
So it sounds to me that unless
we're talking about, uh,

259
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,680
putting a whole bunch of it
on, on a, on a field or, or a,

260
00:16:19,930 --> 00:16:22,160
or distributed, you
know, cultivation area,

261
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,840
there really isn't much application
for this in cannabis growing,

262
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:26,920
which is kind of our point.

263
00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:28,760
Correct. All.

264
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:29,480
Right. So.

265
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,480
Unless, unless you take it, open it and,

266
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,080
and pile it up and let it
go through the phase, let.

267
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,000
It, So if you're, you bring it
home and finish yourself. Correct.

268
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:38,520
Correct.

269
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,440
Uhhuh <affirmative>, um, well, we might
as well hit that. How would somebody,

270
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,760
let's, let's say that somebody only
has access to this kind of stuff. How,

271
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,920
how would you easily finish it at
home, assuming you don't have a farm?

272
00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:54,280
Um, so you take it back to your
place and then blend it with, um,

273
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,280
other sources of carbon.
So, wood chips, uh,

274
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,680
straw or not straw. Yeah, straw.
Because straw is more of a,

275
00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:07,000
a brown than it is a green. It's
not hay, hay, is it green? Um,

276
00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:10,680
and leaf litter, anything,
any source of brown.

277
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,200
Maybe your last year's soil too. Yeah.

278
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,680
Yeah, yeah. It'd be a great way to,
to, to use up some excess soil. Um,

279
00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:19,800
so you just blend it together
and then pile it up and,

280
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,520
and stick your hand in there.
And if it's, if it's heating up,

281
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:23,760
add more browns until,

282
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,080
until you get to a point where it's no
longer heating up to a point where it's,

283
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:32,520
uh, uncomfortable for your
arm. Okay. I mean it, if it's,

284
00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:34,280
if it's a 85 degrees,

285
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,520
which in many ways is the sweet
spot for biological generation,

286
00:17:40,210 --> 00:17:44,800
um, it's gonna feel kind of cool to
you cuz you're, you run at 90, what,

287
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,680
eight mm-hmm. <affirmative> degrees.
So, so it wouldn't be uncomfortable.

288
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,000
Now if you stick your hand
in there and it's hot,

289
00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:55,640
that means it's above a
hundred degrees, uh, 110,

290
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,480
120 be begins to get very
uncomfortable. If, if it's 130,

291
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,520
it's gonna start to burn your arm.
So that's a good way to gauge, um,

292
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,120
in the field without a, a
compost thermometer, um,

293
00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:12,280
how you are maturing your compost. All.

294
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,960
Right, cool. So let's go
to, um, uh, the next, uh, I,

295
00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:20,760
I'm making up these kind of bullshit
categories myself. So <laugh>, uh,

296
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,760
let's go to the second bullshit
category, which is, um, uh,

297
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,680
home food waste compost. Now I wanna
be clear, we're gonna, the next,

298
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,920
the next variety we're
gonna talk about is like,

299
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,600
like food waste compost made by
an organic garden who's like,

300
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,720
read a book and watched some videos and
they know what they're doing. Right?

301
00:18:39,050 --> 00:18:39,640
So what,

302
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,280
what I'm talking about more specifically
are people who have got their heart in

303
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,520
the right place, but they don't really
know what they're doing. All right? So,

304
00:18:46,570 --> 00:18:49,840
so there people, they are
producing, uh, home food waste.

305
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,080
Maybe they're getting some, some
stuff for their neighbors. Um,

306
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,800
they don't have anybody with
neighborhood pigs to give them to,

307
00:18:55,890 --> 00:19:00,720
so they're putting it in an a pile.
And whenever they remember it, um,

308
00:19:00,780 --> 00:19:03,680
you know, it'll get turned a
couple times a year or whatever.

309
00:19:03,940 --> 00:19:07,920
And then eventually it do, you know,
it does break down. It stops to smell.

310
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,920
It's probably got some like, big chunks
of stuff in it, right? And, um, but,

311
00:19:12,930 --> 00:19:17,640
uh, so it's, it's kinda lackadaisical
compost. But, but I come,

312
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,440
I come, I run into that all the time. Um,
I will often post to the Vasan Island,

313
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:27,680
you know, farm or, or, or, or food
cultivators list and say like,

314
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,200
Hey, anybody got excess compost
that you're looking to get rid of?

315
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,360
Because I don't really have a lot of
space for that. And, um, and, and,

316
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,520
you know, sometimes I'll get good
stuff, but most of the time it's this,

317
00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:42,640
this stuff I'm talking about where,
where people are, are making this like,

318
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,440
kind of like lackadaisical pile
and they're like, Yeah, come,

319
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,280
come take this stuff so that I can
feel good that I've like moved it back

320
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:56,200
into the biosphere. Um, but I
don't know what to do with it.

321
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,040
Right? So, so, so what
are your thoughts on,

322
00:20:00,050 --> 00:20:01,960
on this kind of stuff? I'm, I'm,

323
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,360
I'm guessing you're gonna
start with it is also immature.

324
00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:10,160
Um, Yeah. And potentially
pathogenic. Um, yeah.

325
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:12,840
So that's why when you're
dealing with food waste,

326
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:17,840
you really only have three ways
to responsibly deal with it.

327
00:20:18,490 --> 00:20:22,120
If you just take it and pile it up
in the backyard, it's gonna stink.

328
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:26,400
It's gonna attract pests, um, ants, uh,

329
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,680
unwanted critters, um, you
know, raccoons, you name it.

330
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:35,320
So not really, um, a
smart thing to do. Um,

331
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:39,600
a lot of people that have food
waste will often add it to, um,

332
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,600
a static compost pile,
which is yard waste,

333
00:20:42,750 --> 00:20:47,040
leaves and chips and everything else
that you've, um, collected in the, uh,

334
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,040
spring after the winter and piled up. And,

335
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,120
and that's a little bit more safe way
to deal with it because you're not gonna

336
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,840
attract to those pests necessarily, um,

337
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,040
at the same level you would if you
just piled it up and let it rot in the

338
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,920
backyard. Um, and you'll also
get, um, some benefit to,

339
00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:07,160
uh, adding in those browns. Again,

340
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:11,880
greens and browns food waste is pure
nitrogen. So it's, it's gonna go hot.

341
00:21:12,650 --> 00:21:14,480
Um, it's gonna stink,

342
00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:19,360
it's gonna gas off both
methane ammonia, um,

343
00:21:20,130 --> 00:21:23,240
as and, and like
purification gas, you know,

344
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,920
gases that not <laugh> don't
necessarily, um, you know,

345
00:21:28,090 --> 00:21:32,320
they're not good terpenes, put it that
way. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um,

346
00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:36,400
as far as like dealing with,
with, you know, food waste,

347
00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:39,880
my recommendations is to, um,

348
00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:44,200
get people to either
feed them to worms, um,

349
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:49,120
which is a safe way of, of breaking
them down and, and avoiding, um,

350
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,320
you know, pathogenic,
uh, cross-contamination,
which is a real issue.

351
00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:55,160
If any of you have, you know,

352
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,320
gotten an upset stomach due to something
that you ate that was <laugh> not

353
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,960
particularly healthy, um,

354
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,600
then you would understand that this
is not something that you want to have

355
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,800
happened to you. An upset
stomach is no joke. So, um,

356
00:22:09,090 --> 00:22:13,960
in handling that, it's, it's really,
you know, again, feed it to worms first,

357
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:16,520
then take the Verma compost, um,

358
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,280
and use that as a supplement
in your compost or as a top

359
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,520
dressing. But again, it can't
be gooey, it can't smell bad.

360
00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:26,720
Um,

361
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,400
it has to have had the opportunity to
break down to a point where it's no longer

362
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,440
going to be potentially pathogenic.

363
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:36,440
So that's really the,

364
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:40,280
the only responsible way to deal with,

365
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,160
with like food waste. Um, another
thing is, is you can, um, you know,

366
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,040
do something that's a little bit more, um,

367
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:52,640
how we say old style, which
is to dig a hole and put your,

368
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,840
put your food waste in there and put
a lid over the top of it and just let

369
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,680
nature do its thing. Um, and,

370
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,560
and that's what we would
call an anaerobic digestion,

371
00:23:02,770 --> 00:23:05,680
because it's going to stink
like hell down there. Um,

372
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,600
but the microbes will
naturally break it down, um,

373
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,440
and convert it back
into organic matter. Um,

374
00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:18,000
so there's another way for you to
safely deal with your food waste. Um,

375
00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:21,720
and, you know, a lot of times you
gotta keep in mind too, like, you know,

376
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,360
people, Oh, eggshells,
eggshells are great. Well,

377
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,000
they're also got a lot of e coli on
them. Uh, and same with meats. You know,

378
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,560
those, those meats and, and dairies are,

379
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,080
are a little bit more tricky to compost
than just fruits and veggies. Um,

380
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,120
and fruits have their issue too,
because they have a lot of sugar. Uh,

381
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:42,040
they can attract a lot of pests. But
when you get into these, All right,

382
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,600
I'm gonna throw everything, including
the kitchen sink, no pun intended,

383
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:51,360
um, into my compost pile, you
really gotta go thermo fillic,

384
00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:56,240
you gotta cook that stuff hard to,
uh, prevent any kind of, um, again,

385
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,920
attracting paths or, or
potential pathogenic, um,

386
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:03,880
you know, uh, contamination.

387
00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:07,160
Um, well,

388
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,600
a I never considered the pathogens
and I think that's really important,

389
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,800
but I gotta tell you gotta say you
really got my attention with this, um,

390
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,450
anaerobic compost hole. Um,

391
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,250
that sounds like a really fun project. Um,

392
00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:28,010
is the stuff that will come out of that
like rich and delicious for my cannabis

393
00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:28,843
plants.

394
00:24:29,250 --> 00:24:32,330
After it goes through the
digestion process? Absolutely.

395
00:24:32,350 --> 00:24:34,010
How long does that process take?

396
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:36,450
Depends on how much you piled
in there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

397
00:24:36,450 --> 00:24:40,450
And if you continue to pile on top of
it, um, I mean, it's, think of it like,

398
00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:45,330
uh, like you ever seen a
flow through verma compost,

399
00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:47,410
uh, system? Yeah, I have where,

400
00:24:47,410 --> 00:24:50,250
where you take from the bottom
and you feed the top mm-hmm.

401
00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:55,290
<affirmative> in the hole, the bottom
is gonna be where the value is. Um,

402
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:57,450
not the top where you just added stuff.

403
00:24:57,580 --> 00:25:00,490
So basically you have to let that sit for,

404
00:25:01,230 --> 00:25:05,810
cuz you can't harvest from the bottom
unless you try to cross tunnel over

405
00:25:06,050 --> 00:25:08,970
<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably,
probably too much work for the word.

406
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:12,530
I'm, I'm imagining like, fill,
fill, like digging a hole,

407
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:16,730
filling it with like, um, kitchen waste.

408
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:18,250
And then when it's,

409
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:21,530
and then then just fill the hole
and then just cover it and leave it,

410
00:25:21,530 --> 00:25:23,970
and then go dig another
hole. Yes. And then like,

411
00:25:23,970 --> 00:25:28,770
maybe I've got like nine holes and I
think you're about to tell me about how

412
00:25:28,770 --> 00:25:31,210
long that would take.
And so like, okay, I,

413
00:25:31,210 --> 00:25:34,810
I make the holes and then after
x variable amount of time,

414
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,130
I know that I can go back
to hole one and use that.

415
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:41,530
And then like some weeks later
I can go back to hole two.

416
00:25:41,530 --> 00:25:44,970
And then when I pull hole one, I can
go refill it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

417
00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:49,170
So how, how long, like, let's just
say like, you know, reasonably,

418
00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:52,570
since I don't have a backhoe, I'm
probably not gonna dig a hole that's,

419
00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:55,530
you know, much bigger than
three by three, let's say.

420
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,090
I wouldn't even go that big, just
use a post hold digger, right?

421
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:03,450
So just dig a post hold,
you know, like maybe that's.

422
00:26:03,450 --> 00:26:03,890
A really small.

423
00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:07,010
Six, eight inches around. Yeah.
Six, eight inches around. I mean,

424
00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:10,250
how much food waste do you
generate? Not a lot. Yeah.

425
00:26:10,260 --> 00:26:12,290
So I guess, yeah, I guess that's true.

426
00:26:12,290 --> 00:26:15,130
Huh. And, and a great way to, um,

427
00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:20,410
store it is actually to freeze
it so that you can just freeze

428
00:26:20,540 --> 00:26:22,890
as you go throughout the
course of the week. Uh,

429
00:26:22,890 --> 00:26:27,890
maybe it takes two weeks to to store
up enough for a one post hole and,

430
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:30,410
you know, dig the post
hole, mark it with a flag,

431
00:26:30,550 --> 00:26:34,610
and then cover it over with soil on
top. And if you go back probably,

432
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,330
I don't know, maybe three, five
months, three to six months,

433
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,320
you'll have this amazing black organic
stuff with tons of worm castings in it.

434
00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:47,440
Wow. Like, and then, and then if they're
not three by three holes, I could,

435
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,280
you know, I could easily make
25 of these in a row each,

436
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,760
with each with their own
plant tag given me their,

437
00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:57,320
the date that I capped them off. Correct.
Um, do I need to worry about the, um,

438
00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:02,000
the e coli from the eggshells
when I do this style?

439
00:27:02,450 --> 00:27:05,040
No, because everything's gonna break
down. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Um,

440
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,840
you're gonna have rapid decomposition
in an anaerobic digestion system.

441
00:27:09,970 --> 00:27:13,840
So the, the coli is just gonna
get consumed by other biology.

442
00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:19,400
Um, what if, what if I'm a
cultivator who's in the ground? Um,

443
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,800
and I have got like a,
a, a cultivation field,

444
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,760
Let's just say I've got three rows
of five plants, you know, and, uh,

445
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,040
and so I've got like 15
plants. Could I just, um,

446
00:27:31,470 --> 00:27:36,040
make these post holes
like around my garden and,

447
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,920
and then just like, never get them out,

448
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,960
just like put 'em in and just
cap it and just say, you know,

449
00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:43,680
all all of this, uh,

450
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,040
all these nutrients will eventually
be accessed by the root zone

451
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:50,720
and they'll be pulled from, you know,

452
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,360
3, 4, 5 feet away from the plants and
they'll just be pulled over by nature.

453
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:59,400
And so I'm just kind of, um,
creating these little post holes,

454
00:27:59,470 --> 00:28:04,360
like little CAEs of
nutrition for the soil and

455
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,360
the plants. Is that legit?

456
00:28:05,630 --> 00:28:09,680
Absolutely. Wow. And I mean, you
could take it even further and, um,

457
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,600
when you harvest in the fall, um,
you know, go next to the root ball.

458
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,720
Obviously I don't want you to take
that out. It's valuable nutrition,

459
00:28:17,780 --> 00:28:21,520
but go next to it and dig a hole and
put it in there and next to your plant,

460
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,880
right on top of it. Hmm. It'll
have six months of digestion.

461
00:28:25,580 --> 00:28:26,000
All.

462
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,280
Right. Black gold, dude. Black.

463
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,080
Gold. That's really cool idea. All right.

464
00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:34,080
Now there is one other piece that I left
out in, in dealing with food waste. Um,

465
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,280
it's called fermentation. Now,

466
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,360
that's been a big topic over the last
five years for for sure. You know,

467
00:28:40,430 --> 00:28:43,640
j dom and, and natural farming methods.

468
00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:46,360
And so one of the other things you can do,

469
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,000
especially if you have a
situation where you just,

470
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,760
you had a party and you have all this
leftover food, like, you know, hamburgers,

471
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,400
hot dogs, steak, chicken, pork,
whatever, Um, but you just,

472
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,680
you're overwhelmed. You have, you have
a, a trash bucket full of food. Um,

473
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,400
what you can do is actually take
that and cover it with water

474
00:29:07,420 --> 00:29:11,000
and put a, uh, like a wire mesh or,

475
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,640
or wire cloth over the top of it
so it's held down and wait it, um,

476
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,600
so that the food and everything underneath
it is under the surface of the water.

477
00:29:20,420 --> 00:29:24,160
Now this is a way to basically, uh,

478
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,040
break it down into enzymes
very, very quickly.

479
00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:32,720
And then those enzymes can be used in,

480
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,640
again, in a thermal thermo fillic compost,

481
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,920
and really make that
compost explode biologically

482
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,480
because you've got all of the
secondary and tertiary melos,

483
00:29:46,730 --> 00:29:49,040
uh, in, in biological food.

484
00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:53,440
And so of course the biology is just gonna
go ballistic when it comes in contact

485
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,960
with this stuff cuz it's just
ready to eat. It's like, you know,

486
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,640
McDonald's and Burger King.
Um, so that's another,

487
00:30:01,010 --> 00:30:06,000
uh, component to dealing with,
with, you know, food waste. Now, do,

488
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,080
would I recommend, you know, doing
that on a smaller scale? Probably not.

489
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Cuz it's gonna be a pain in the ass.
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, where as, you know,

490
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,520
digging a post hole and dumping,
you know, some frozen, um,

491
00:30:16,910 --> 00:30:21,360
scraps for the last two weeks is
a very easy, uh, to do method.

492
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,760
Whereas this fermentation process
takes a little bit longer. And again,

493
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,000
now you've got this bucket, um,

494
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,800
that you have to let sit for a
minimum of probably seven days, um,

495
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,080
until it, it, you've gotten
through the, the, um,

496
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,000
fermentation process.

497
00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:42,160
And you're probably gonna see foam
on the surface of the water. Um,

498
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,840
and other indications that it's
still very, uh, highly active.

499
00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:51,080
And so you do not want toco
this while it's in this again,

500
00:30:51,370 --> 00:30:55,400
um, anaerobic digestion, uh,

501
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,120
because it's gonna stink like hell.
But after a period of, you know, I,

502
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,920
you know, it depends again
on the size of the container,

503
00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:04,320
how much you're dealing with,

504
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,440
how much meat versus how much vegetables
as to how long it'll take to break

505
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,640
down. But after a period of time,
it won't even stink anymore.

506
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,520
It'll be slimy. You know, you'll
probably get like a mother, um, you know,

507
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,440
like a kombucha mother on the top
of it mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

508
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:24,040
but it won't smell anymore. And
that's when you know, okay, this,

509
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,040
this stuff is rocket fuel for biology.

510
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,840
Now I take this and add it to my
compost pile, It will not stink.

511
00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:34,200
And all of those, uh,
mobile nutrients, um,

512
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,640
that could wash through the soil
very quickly if it rained, um,

513
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,680
will be consumed very
quickly by the biology.

514
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,120
Wow. Right on. And, and when
it's in the stink stage,

515
00:31:44,130 --> 00:31:48,880
do not get that stuff on you <laugh>.
Cause you'll smell for days <laugh>.

516
00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:51,203
Exactly.

517
00:31:51,580 --> 00:31:56,240
All right. So our, our next
category, um, is, is going to be,

518
00:31:56,250 --> 00:32:00,200
uh, what, for lack of a better
term, I'll call it curated compost.

519
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:04,640
So this is the kind of compost
that is made by, you know,

520
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,320
or organic gardeners your friend
who who knows better, took a class,

521
00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:15,000
you know, read a couple books, um, they
know what they're doing. And so they're,

522
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,800
they're, they're creating their pile
and, you know, maybe they're even, um,

523
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,240
you know,

524
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,560
making sure that certain types of food
stuffs are in there so that the compost

525
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,760
that comes out of it has a particular
nutrition ratio that they're looking for.

526
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:33,840
And, uh, and, and it's getting turned
on time and they've got a compost,

527
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,960
you know, thermometer.
And so, you know, we're,

528
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,760
we're talking kinda like
creme to the creme of,

529
00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:44,240
of heated compost piles.
And, and you're very lucky.

530
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,400
They like you, they like the weed
that you're growing and they say, Hey,

531
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,360
I've got, I've got extra
of this stuff. You know,

532
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:53,840
when you wanna bring over your pickup
and, you know, get what you want.

533
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,320
And then you're, you're like,
hell yeah. And you go over. So,

534
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,520
so tell me about this compost compared
to the other stuff we were talking about

535
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:01,353
so far.

536
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:06,200
All right. So I'd have to
believe, um, that this,

537
00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:08,760
this compost curator has,

538
00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:12,920
has gone through the thermo phase
and into the meso. In other words,

539
00:33:13,310 --> 00:33:17,560
didn't rush it. Um, used the
proper green brown relationship.

540
00:33:18,090 --> 00:33:21,280
Um, whether they used
food waste or manure. We,

541
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,320
we call those high nitrogen sources. Um,

542
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,160
as long as they're using high
nitrogen sources responsibly,

543
00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:33,160
so less than 10%. Um, and they are
going through the process of turning it,

544
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,440
like you said, until that gets
to the point where it no longer

545
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,560
continues to go. Theil, now you've
pushed it into the meso fillic phase.

546
00:33:42,620 --> 00:33:47,440
Now you have a, what I want to
call nutrient dense compost.

547
00:33:48,050 --> 00:33:50,920
Um, so there's a high
value of nutrition there,

548
00:33:51,380 --> 00:33:54,840
but I'm not saying that there's
biology there. And this is,

549
00:33:55,230 --> 00:33:59,480
this is something that, um, I've
learned over the years. I've, you know,

550
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,440
been across the country,

551
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,000
I don't know how many times
worked with clients all over. Um,

552
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,360
I've worked with people as, Oh my God,
I make the best compost. You know,

553
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,080
old hippies that, that, you know,
that've been around for a long time, uh,

554
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,040
worked with dairy farmers,
horse farmers, you name it.

555
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,720
Generally speaking,

556
00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:21,160
the one piece that they're
all missing is the biology.

557
00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:26,890
Biology takes perhaps a
year or two to come back

558
00:34:26,890 --> 00:34:30,090
into that pile after it's
gone. Thermo fillic, um,

559
00:34:30,090 --> 00:34:35,050
to a point where it would get into
the realm just getting close to the

560
00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:37,770
realm of what I would call
a biological inoculate.

561
00:34:39,220 --> 00:34:44,090
So that guy on the farm who's,
you know, through his, you know,

562
00:34:44,190 --> 00:34:46,210
his yard scraps and his,

563
00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:50,570
his vegetable scraps probably not as
meat cause he doesn't wanna attract the

564
00:34:50,570 --> 00:34:54,570
pests, um, into his pile and,
and, you know, turned it or,

565
00:34:54,570 --> 00:34:58,090
or left it static. I mean, that's
another way to deal with it. Um,

566
00:34:58,090 --> 00:35:02,410
static just takes longer for it to
break down. But you're, you're getting,

567
00:35:02,410 --> 00:35:06,010
you're gonna get a better
biological compost, uh,

568
00:35:06,010 --> 00:35:09,610
from static versus turning. Cuz
every time you turn that pile,

569
00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:14,650
every time you expose
those microbes to uv to

570
00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:18,970
oxidation through exposure
to air, um, you're,

571
00:35:18,970 --> 00:35:23,570
you're knocking them way back.
You're, you're basically, um,

572
00:35:24,140 --> 00:35:28,850
pushing them into a cyst form or into a,

573
00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:33,690
um, you know, a form where they're
being consumed by other biology. So you,

574
00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:35,530
you've turned them into a bio stimulant,

575
00:35:35,770 --> 00:35:40,120
which is basically what happens to
thermo fights in a meso fillic phase.

576
00:35:40,770 --> 00:35:44,840
Um, they're being consumed by
other bacteria and protozoa and,

577
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,680
and converted into, um,

578
00:35:46,830 --> 00:35:51,720
a what we call a biotic bank
account. Like it's there. Um,

579
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:56,160
and it will be available when,
uh, the time is appropriate for,

580
00:35:56,180 --> 00:36:00,160
for the next level of
bacteria to be consumed, um,

581
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,400
and released in plant
available form. So you're,

582
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,320
you're basically like banking a bio
stimulant in, in a situation like that,

583
00:36:08,540 --> 00:36:11,280
but you're not, you're not producing, um,

584
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:16,400
biological compost per se,
if I was clear on that.

585
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:16,760
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

586
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,440
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
So, so, um, this, this,

587
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,080
this compost that we're talking about
that is finished and it is stable,

588
00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:30,080
um, how are we going to, um, you know,

589
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,280
we can use that in, in,

590
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,000
in all the ways that we normally think
about compost at this point, right?

591
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,600
As a correct, as a top dress, as a
soil amendment, all that kind of stuff.

592
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,080
Mm-hmm.

593
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:39,730
<Affirmative>. Exactly.

594
00:36:39,730 --> 00:36:43,080
So unlike the other ones that we've
talked about so far that have got

595
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,080
limitations because they've
never become stable,

596
00:36:46,750 --> 00:36:51,440
This is the first one in the list
where we can feel pretty safe doing

597
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:52,473
whatever we want with it.

598
00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:56,560
Yep. And again, test it, you know, stick
your hand in it, pile it up, and, and,

599
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,480
and feel if it starts to heat
up again, if it, if it heats up,

600
00:37:01,250 --> 00:37:05,880
um, then you're still in what we
would consider decomposition phase,

601
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,400
thermo fillic phase. Um,

602
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,880
but if it doesn't heat up or you
stick your hand in there and it,

603
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,760
it feels a little cool to you, then
you, you know, you've got a, um, stable,

604
00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:19,360
um, organic matter. All
right. Cool. And we,

605
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,440
we have to introduce that at some
point in the near future as to,

606
00:37:22,570 --> 00:37:25,440
instead of calling it compost,
we need to call it, um,

607
00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:29,240
like those terms that I've talked to you
about, like ground up, organic matter,

608
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,800
gum, uh, palm particular
organic matter, or moan,

609
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,400
mineral associated organic matter.

610
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:39,000
Cause now you're getting into
that point where it's, it's,

611
00:37:39,390 --> 00:37:42,280
it's in a phase of decomposition.

612
00:37:42,610 --> 00:37:46,800
So everything starts with, with, um,

613
00:37:47,110 --> 00:37:51,520
soil and plant growing and
then breaks back down into soil

614
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:52,360
eventually.

615
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:55,880
Yeah. We need a, uh, especially since
you pointed out the beginning of that,

616
00:37:56,010 --> 00:37:58,840
compost is really a
process and not a product.

617
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,800
We really need new vocabulary words
for these various products that

618
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,360
we're talking about because people
say, Oh, my compost, your compost.

619
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,960
And really people are comparing very
different things because they're,

620
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,560
they're not all at the
same, um, maturity status.

621
00:38:15,310 --> 00:38:19,040
Dude, we did a compost
cup out here a year ago,

622
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,040
the Ventura County Compost Cup.

623
00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:25,480
We brought in all of the
local compost producers, uh,

624
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,880
everything from, you know, the
family gardener to, uh, you know,

625
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,040
these big companies that make it. And you
know, these, you know, experts, these,

626
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,760
these are heavy hitters that came.
Um, we had 10 judges. Uh, one was a,

627
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:44,000
uh, soil scientist from
Rodale. Others were,

628
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,560
were business owners who produced
large scale amount volumes of compost,

629
00:38:49,370 --> 00:38:53,880
um, all the way down to, uh, guys
that, that make what I would consider,

630
00:38:54,530 --> 00:38:59,200
uh, moan, uh, mineral or
associated organic matter. Um,

631
00:38:59,540 --> 00:39:04,400
and, and we put 'em all out on a table.
And I spent three days prior to this,

632
00:39:04,450 --> 00:39:07,960
uh, micro scoping every sample
to see which ones were would,

633
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,600
would I consider
biologically, um, inoculant.

634
00:39:14,380 --> 00:39:17,480
And so we had these 10 judges. Uh,

635
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,720
I was not one of 'em cuz I was biased
cuz I already looked at everything.

636
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,520
<laugh> <laugh>, uh, and we had them
analyze it and vote on, you know,

637
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,720
each category. We had verma compost,
we had food waste compost, we had, uh,

638
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:33,360
thermo fillic compost, we
had, uh, static compost,

639
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,240
we had yard waste and you name
it, horse, horse manure compost.

640
00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:40,000
And each one of them, um,

641
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,560
looked at the samples and then
voted based on appearance.

642
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:48,160
Only one person out of those
10 judges actually sniffed it.

643
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,760
And that was the soil scientist.

644
00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:54,120
And then when it was all
done and they all voted, um,

645
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,840
at the end of the competition, I
stood up and I said, Hey, you know,

646
00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:02,320
I really appreciate you guys taking
the time to come out here and do this,

647
00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:05,160
but I wanna point out something that, um,

648
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,800
you guys basically determined the
value of the compost on appearance

649
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,510
only. And everyone kind of
looked around at each other like,

650
00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:19,470
Oh fuck, you know how he's right. How,

651
00:40:19,490 --> 00:40:24,310
how are we qualifying or
quantifying why this one's better

652
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:28,870
than that one by appearance?
So I point out, hey,

653
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:29,790
we did no testing,

654
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,190
so we have no idea which one's
nutritional and which one's not. Um,

655
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:38,230
we don't know which ones could
potentially have high salt or,

656
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:41,190
or heavy metals like the
horse manure compost. Um,

657
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:45,390
very common to have high aluminum in
in horse manure as well as high salts

658
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,950
sodiums. Um, both
detrimental to plants. Um,

659
00:40:50,130 --> 00:40:55,110
and, and also I biologically
scoped all of these,

660
00:40:55,130 --> 00:40:59,110
but that wasn't even taken
into consideration as to,

661
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:00,713
uh, again,

662
00:41:01,610 --> 00:41:05,520
stating that this was better than
the other ones in that category.

663
00:41:06,180 --> 00:41:08,040
And it was extremely eyeopening,

664
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,560
like that conversation that the room just
exploded inside conversations at that

665
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,200
point, everybody was like, Oh my God, I
never thought about it that way. Mm-hmm.

666
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:21,040
<affirmative>. And so it was really
eye opening to basically put that level

667
00:41:21,210 --> 00:41:24,440
of, of experience in a room together and,

668
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,520
and turn them on their heads
because they basically had no real

669
00:41:29,790 --> 00:41:33,480
evidence to determine
which was better, uh,

670
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,560
than the other ones except for visually.

671
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,360
<Laugh>. All right.

672
00:41:41,530 --> 00:41:45,680
So let's go to our next category.
So the next one, um, uh,

673
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:49,440
I kind of just put it in its own category
because I really just thought that,

674
00:41:49,570 --> 00:41:51,080
um, um,

675
00:41:53,140 --> 00:41:55,420
worm castings were just like a,

676
00:41:55,420 --> 00:42:00,180
a a part of all compost and
that was it. Um, but then, um,

677
00:42:00,590 --> 00:42:04,420
uh, folks might recall, uh,
uh, Chandler from, uh, uh,

678
00:42:04,420 --> 00:42:06,980
from Worm's who was on the
show a couple episodes ago, uh,

679
00:42:06,980 --> 00:42:09,260
talking about worms and, um,

680
00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:13,260
like he was kind enough to
send me out a bag of, uh,

681
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:18,140
the worm Verma compost that they make
so that I could see what a Verma compost

682
00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:22,940
was like. And dude, it's, it's unlike
anything else that I would call compost.

683
00:42:23,110 --> 00:42:27,340
Um, um, it is, uh, it's, it's, uh, uh, it,

684
00:42:27,340 --> 00:42:31,820
its smaller. Um, it's
smells sweet. It is, it,

685
00:42:31,820 --> 00:42:35,660
it seems more uniform, It
seems a little bit heavier.

686
00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:41,460
Um, uh, you know, when the, when you know,

687
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:45,100
again, something that's called
compost, right? But really, um,

688
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:49,100
you were talking about the pass
through, um, uh, worm bins earlier,

689
00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:53,700
that stuff that comes out
at the bottom, which is the,

690
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,180
the worms, um, the worm casting.

691
00:42:57,180 --> 00:43:00,500
So they're poop with, um, you know,

692
00:43:00,820 --> 00:43:05,100
whatever kind of like soil or hay that
might have been thrown in there to kind

693
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:09,420
of even it out and make it a pleasant
living environment, I guess. Um,

694
00:43:09,930 --> 00:43:14,820
that stuff while called
compost is really its own

695
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:19,740
thing. And, um, and so let's
talk about that itself.

696
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:24,660
So, so, you know, you get a, uh, you know,
somebody gives you verma compost and,

697
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,020
and it's, you know, vastly worm castings.

698
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:33,420
Um, let's, let's talk
about what, what the,

699
00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:35,740
the attributes of that compost would be.

700
00:43:36,210 --> 00:43:40,860
Okay, that's great. Um, so when you are,

701
00:43:41,070 --> 00:43:45,370
um, doing verma compost at scale, um,

702
00:43:45,370 --> 00:43:47,570
you have to start with
betting, right? Everybody,

703
00:43:47,590 --> 00:43:51,130
you can't just throw food in a bin and
throw some worms in there because they

704
00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:53,450
won't survive. The whole
thing will go in aerobic and,

705
00:43:53,450 --> 00:43:58,290
and the worms will turn to slime. So you
need to create a be that the worms can,

706
00:43:58,340 --> 00:44:03,130
uh, retreat to, um, to do the
air thing, whether it's breed or,

707
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:08,090
or rest. Um, and then, uh, an
area for them to work through,

708
00:44:08,260 --> 00:44:12,530
um, to get their food. Um, they
don't wanna live in decomposing food.

709
00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:15,370
They wanna live in their be,
but they wanna be able to eat.

710
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:19,610
So think of it that way. All
right. So, um, and again,

711
00:44:20,010 --> 00:44:21,050
thank you for,

712
00:44:21,050 --> 00:44:25,290
for observing the weight of
it because that's really,

713
00:44:25,290 --> 00:44:26,490
really important to understand.

714
00:44:26,490 --> 00:44:31,320
That's why Verma compost
is so unlike other forms of

715
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:31,970
compost,

716
00:44:31,970 --> 00:44:36,520
because it's pushing on the moham
mineral associated organic matter side.

717
00:44:37,010 --> 00:44:40,280
So mineral associated organic
matter is highly stable,

718
00:44:40,310 --> 00:44:44,640
long term in soil and
provides great benefit to, um,

719
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,160
helping the, the,

720
00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:51,280
the soil food web to
begin to build aggregates

721
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,880
micro and macro aggregates, which
is important for soil health.

722
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,800
But I'm not gonna go down there. So why
is ver compost so much different? Well,

723
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,360
those worms have chewed
through that material consuming

724
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:08,960
bacteria and pooping out, um, nutrient,

725
00:45:09,350 --> 00:45:12,000
highly nutrient dense little poops,

726
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,840
because they're really there
to eat the biology. They,

727
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,640
they don't really want to eat
the, the nutrients per se. Um,

728
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,800
they, they will try, they will help move
those nutrients throughout the entire,

729
00:45:24,210 --> 00:45:26,800
uh, worm bed. Um, which is, again,

730
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,200
mutually beneficial because
now you're getting an even, um,

731
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:35,280
even amount of nutrients
throughout the entire system.

732
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,600
It's not like this pocket's
gonna be heavily laden with,

733
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,160
with this nutrient or that mineral. It's
been pushed through the whole system.

734
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:48,800
So yeah, worm castings are very
special because they are, uh,

735
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:53,840
very nutrient dense and highly
biologically available. In other words,

736
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,520
if you put those arm castings into
or top dress and then apply a,

737
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,600
a really good compost extract,

738
00:46:00,670 --> 00:46:05,440
a biologically rich
compost extract ort, um,

739
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:05,760
those,

740
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,760
those things will be broken down
extremely fast and stored in

741
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,360
the biology so that they're
not mobile. And again,

742
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,440
this is really important
to understand nutrients.

743
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,960
If you just take raw nutrient
like a secondary tertiary metaly,

744
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,800
and you put it on the soil and
it rains, that stuff's gone,

745
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:27,760
it's gonna get washed through and down
into the lower soil systems where it's

746
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,600
no longer going to be as available,
um, for the plants. So you've,

747
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,920
you've, you've gone backwards,
you've lost your minerals,

748
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,280
you've lost your nutrients.

749
00:46:37,690 --> 00:46:41,080
So that's why it's so important
to have that biology on,

750
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,840
on high numbers so that they can
consume those secondary and tertiary met

751
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:45,160
lights,

752
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:50,000
store them in their biota in their
body so that now when it rains,

753
00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:54,040
um, they're stuck to their biofilm.
That stuff's not going anywhere.

754
00:46:54,220 --> 00:46:57,080
The only time that stuff that nutrient in,

755
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,800
in that bacteria is going to go
somewhere is when that bacteria is

756
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,560
consumed by a protozoa or
stared to death by a, uh,

757
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,720
lack of exit date and becomes
available to the plant.

758
00:47:11,530 --> 00:47:14,560
So that's why Worm castings
are just so special,

759
00:47:14,730 --> 00:47:19,640
is because they are basically secondary
and tertiary lytes ready to be consumed

760
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,040
by a biology, which will
then store it as a, uh,

761
00:47:23,110 --> 00:47:26,720
a nutrient bank system for
when the plant wants them.

762
00:47:27,650 --> 00:47:28,600
Special stuff.

763
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,080
Yeah, it totally special stuff. And, and,
um, you know, I copped this, you know,

764
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,160
when when we did the, uh,
you know, uh, you know,

765
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,000
making friends with Worm episodes like,
I don't know, three or four back with,

766
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,000
uh, with Chandler, Um, and like,
I'm honestly new to worms. Like I,

767
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:49,000
I like worms, I make sure that
I've got worms in my pots, but,

768
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:53,480
but mostly I would just have always
thought about them aerating the soil and,

769
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,000
and, but it wasn't until, you know,

770
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,640
talked with Chandler that I realized
that they are these like super

771
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,760
efficient processing machines,

772
00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:08,040
biological machines that
are just taking these, um,

773
00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:14,160
this biology that's not super accessible
to us or our plans and running it

774
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,440
through their bodies and pooping out
the other end something that is rich and

775
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,800
valuable to us. And this
is, that's pretty badass.

776
00:48:22,070 --> 00:48:23,520
Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is.

777
00:48:23,860 --> 00:48:26,920
All right. So let's go to the,
the fifth category now. Um,

778
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,560
we're down to our last two here.
So the fifth one, it, it kind of,

779
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,080
I'm not sure if it totally fits
in this, in this group, but, um,

780
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,360
since this is where, um,
my curiosity started, uh,

781
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,240
for this episode today, uh, I
definitely want to include it. So, um,

782
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:47,200
for the last, I don't know, five or
six years, um, I have been using,

783
00:48:47,770 --> 00:48:49,920
um, uh, both of the,

784
00:48:50,260 --> 00:48:55,120
the compost team making products
from Green Bicycles. Um, and,

785
00:48:55,210 --> 00:48:56,040
uh, uh,

786
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,480
Kevin Jory turned me onto this
stuff one day when I was visiting

787
00:49:00,750 --> 00:49:03,680
Wonderland Nursery because Patrick,

788
00:49:03,780 --> 00:49:07,200
the founder of Green Bicycles
had come by and he had, you know,

789
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:12,040
this huge 35 gallon,
uh, container of this,

790
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,080
this, this, uh, what looked like
powder. And Kevin says, you know,

791
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,720
I swear by this stuff, it makes great
composes. You should, you should try it.

792
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:21,160
And so I have, and I loved it.

793
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,920
I got great results and I've been
using it for years. Um, and so,

794
00:49:26,290 --> 00:49:29,480
so the stuff from Green Bicycles though,

795
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,320
is very unlike the other stuff that we've
talked about so far today because, um,

796
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:39,080
the Green Bicycles products is, is
not like, uh, food refuges or, or,

797
00:49:39,170 --> 00:49:42,600
um, um, you know, lawn clippings or,

798
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,880
or cuttings from my cannabis plans.

799
00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:50,280
It is a blend of what I think
of more as soil amendments,

800
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,560
right? So there's, you
know, there's, there,

801
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,160
there's guano and feather meal
and crab shell, and you know,

802
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,720
the kinds of stuff that, that we
all in the regenerative scene, um,

803
00:50:01,020 --> 00:50:05,960
are known to use to build
our soil. And, and so, um,

804
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,440
he's got two versions of the
product, uh, one of it with, um,

805
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:13,680
molasses that's dried in there and
then, and then one that's not, and the,

806
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,960
the one without the molasses is kind
of seen more as a soil amendment.

807
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,800
And the one with molasses is, is, um,

808
00:50:20,090 --> 00:50:23,840
is used more as a compost tea. And so, um,

809
00:50:24,050 --> 00:50:27,760
so I've been using this stuff for
years, but it wasn't until again,

810
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:32,680
I started following, um,
uh, um, you know, the,

811
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,960
the worms, uh, Instagram
and Chandler's Instagram,

812
00:50:37,530 --> 00:50:40,680
uh, uh, I think it's
jet Gardens, um, that I,

813
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,600
that I really started realizing that
the stuff I was making compost tea

814
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,400
quotes out of, um, was not,

815
00:50:49,410 --> 00:50:53,560
it didn't look like compost to
me anymore. It was, it was a,

816
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,120
a bunch of amendments
with molasses. And so I,

817
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,320
I would always like take
that and put that in my, um,

818
00:51:01,410 --> 00:51:06,200
my bubbler that I got from T
lab and, um, in a bubble up.

819
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,160
And it makes this like beautiful
compost tea that smells great and,

820
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:16,040
and my plants have have done
well on it. But, but, but, um,

821
00:51:16,350 --> 00:51:20,160
I, I'm like, where, where's
the biology part of it?

822
00:51:20,620 --> 00:51:23,040
And is this its own category,

823
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,240
which I have just started
calling a nutrient tea,

824
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:30,240
which that category may or may not exist,
but like I'm on my own path, right?

825
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:34,240
I just came across it my own and everybody
else probably already knows about

826
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:38,480
this. So, so I've been using this
and so, so a I know it works.

827
00:51:39,110 --> 00:51:41,600
B I love the ingredients. Um,

828
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,520
but c I don't know if bubbling it is
actually doing me any good because

829
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,120
there, I, I don't think that
there's any living biology,

830
00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:54,880
but there's gotta be biology that
is ced up, that was, you know,

831
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:58,680
on the feather meal, on
the crab shell, you know,

832
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,920
contained in the back guano.
So, so there's like, like,

833
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:07,800
there's like ced up sleeping
biology in there, I'm guessing. Um,

834
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,360
and then I go ahead and, you know, fire
it up, and then I get nutrition with,

835
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:15,640
I'm guessing some amount of biology. So,

836
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:20,280
so please speak to that, which,
which is a very different,

837
00:52:20,990 --> 00:52:23,360
it's a very different product to put in,

838
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,280
in the same bucket of as compost,

839
00:52:26,420 --> 00:52:30,280
but I really feel like it's
got its own personality and I,

840
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,840
and I don't know how to resolve
it with the rest of this stuff.

841
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:38,520
<Laugh>, Oh, it definitely has a
personality and I, I, I appreciate the,

842
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:43,360
the, the term nutrient, um, solution or,

843
00:52:43,370 --> 00:52:46,400
or nutrient tea, um,

844
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,480
would be the appropriate
way to describe it. Um,

845
00:52:49,940 --> 00:52:54,840
the big difference between
compost extract and teas versus a

846
00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:00,040
nutrient, um, tea would be
the lack of humic acid. Mm,

847
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,280
the lack of folic acids.
Um, those are, um,

848
00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:06,600
biological super foods.

849
00:53:07,930 --> 00:53:12,040
So basically it's like,
uh, one stop shop for,

850
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,440
for your entire soil, food web
by using, um, you know, these,

851
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:21,200
these compost extracts that are
very high in hemic or folic assets.

852
00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:23,720
So that being said, now we've,

853
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:27,040
we've separated these two by
that one critical ingredient.

854
00:53:27,860 --> 00:53:32,200
Now let's talk about the two different
varieties. One with molasses,

855
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,360
one without molasses,

856
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:38,080
I would tend to believe the one with
molasses would be working a lot quicker.

857
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,080
So a short term, whereas the one without
molasses would be more of a long term,

858
00:53:43,450 --> 00:53:44,680
um, nutrient tea.

859
00:53:45,220 --> 00:53:50,000
And by that I mean that when you
apply that nutrient solution onto the

860
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:51,880
soil, um, you're,

861
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,720
you're assuming that that solution is
going to be absorbed by the existing

862
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:59,600
organic matter, um, and
then slowly released by, uh,

863
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,680
the bacteria that are mining it
and storing it in themselves,

864
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:07,600
and then they become available to the
protozone, which pooped out to the plant,

865
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,720
et cetera. So one is a short
term, one is long term.

866
00:54:11,220 --> 00:54:15,960
The short term one with the molasses
is going to stimulate all kinds of

867
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,840
microbial activity. Um,
we know for sure that,

868
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:23,240
that the bacteria just love
molasses. Um, there was,

869
00:54:23,710 --> 00:54:28,000
I I, years ago, I, it got explained
to me, and I forget what it is,

870
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,880
but it has something to do with the fact
that the sugar has only been processed

871
00:54:32,890 --> 00:54:36,680
to a certain point. Um, it
hasn't been refined yet,

872
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,080
and that's why the bacteria love
it so much because there's, again,

873
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,120
the secondary tertiary lytes haven't been
refined to a point where that they're

874
00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:46,880
more difficult to break down.

875
00:54:47,730 --> 00:54:52,440
So you're gonna have biofilms
built up on all of those,

876
00:54:52,650 --> 00:54:57,280
uh, nutrient inputs. So,
um, just recently nasa,

877
00:54:57,690 --> 00:55:02,440
uh, came back with an article
about how they had slapped some

878
00:55:02,450 --> 00:55:06,320
biofilm on the outside of the
space station at three years ago,

879
00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:10,240
and they scraped it this year
and brought it inside, and yes,

880
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:14,920
it was still live even though it
had been living in space, which is,

881
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,320
you know, how could anything
live in space, Right? Well,

882
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,040
it goes to show that that biology is,

883
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,600
is incredibly resilient,

884
00:55:24,180 --> 00:55:28,520
but it also goes to show that
the biofilm is so powerful

885
00:55:29,070 --> 00:55:34,040
that it can protect those
organisms pretty much in any

886
00:55:34,220 --> 00:55:38,840
con in any environment you can possibly
come up with. Um, at some point, I,

887
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,360
I tend to believe that we will find, um,

888
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,600
that perhaps life even
exists in flames, uh, wow.

889
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,000
That there's some kind of biology that
we haven't quite uncovered yet. Um,

890
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,480
but that's a whole nother story. Yeah.

891
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:50,790
That,

892
00:55:50,790 --> 00:55:54,520
that sounds like a whole different
meaning for the shaping Fire podcast name,

893
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:55,920
right? <laugh>, right <laugh>.

894
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,400
We'll get there someday, hopefully.
Yeah. But, um, anyway, to stay,

895
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,360
stay on top here. Um, so that
being said, that yes, when you,

896
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,200
when you add the dry molasses and you
put it in water and you bubble it, you,

897
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,440
you're, you're going to, um, get a, uh,

898
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,280
bacterial explosion, a plume
for lack of better words,

899
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:21,880
and you're gonna be pluming
out the organisms that were

900
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,440
consuming that had, had, had
created their biofilm and,

901
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:31,160
and their protection, their
home on those individual, um,

902
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,200
nutrients, whether it's crab, meal,
horse, uh, uh, whatever, uh, feather meal,

903
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,320
crab meal, calcium, whatever it is,

904
00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:43,200
But they will have
bacteria specifically mine,

905
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,480
those components, and now you've
grown them out. So guess what?

906
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,760
When you pour them on your soil,
you're gonna have an explosion of,

907
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,920
of the biology that has that
nutrient stored up in its pantry

908
00:56:56,430 --> 00:57:00,520
that is now going to be consumed by
the ProTool and nematodes that you have

909
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,760
present in your soil system or,
or the, or the micro orthopods.

910
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:09,680
Just not forget about them. Um, and
the worms don't forget about them,

911
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:14,480
right? Cause they're all working
together to release this nutrients, um,

912
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,760
back to the plant. And so, um, that's,

913
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,040
that's what I would say to, to this, uh,

914
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,840
green bicycle, uh, nutrient solution
is that it's, it's an amendment,

915
00:57:27,060 --> 00:57:30,000
but yes, it does have some, um,

916
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,960
biological constituents that are available
on those nutrients that mine those

917
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,360
specific nutrients. So very
targeted biology. Right.

918
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,720
On. Cool. And, you know, uh, I, I
started with it just because, you know,

919
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,320
Kevin Jory said so right?

920
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,520
And I trusted his opinion and it's
worked for me for years. And it's,

921
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,840
it's funny that now like whatever,
five, six years ago, you know,

922
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,760
later now I'm really getting to the point
that I can even think about more what

923
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,400
it is. Um, so I'm, you know, it,

924
00:57:58,530 --> 00:58:02,960
it works for me even without
knowing exactly what it is. So, um,

925
00:58:02,970 --> 00:58:06,040
so I like that kind of product.
I wanna, I want to clean up,

926
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:07,120
before we go on to the next topic,

927
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,320
I wanna clean up a couple of the
things that I got wrong. Uh, um,

928
00:58:11,410 --> 00:58:15,840
so Worms Instagram is obviously easy
cause you know how to spell worms, but,

929
00:58:15,980 --> 00:58:20,600
but, um, Chandler Alki who was a
guest for the, for the, you know,

930
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,760
getting friendly with Worms shaping
fire episode like three back, uh,

931
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,760
I got his Instagram wrong.
I looked it up real quick.

932
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,280
It's actually Jet House Gardens.

933
00:58:28,540 --> 00:58:33,080
And so nothing worse than
you plug somebody whose
Instagram is very educational

934
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,200
for you and then you
plug it wrong, you know?

935
00:58:35,290 --> 00:58:38,640
Oh, I didn't want to interrupt you,
but I was going to clarify that. Right?

936
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:39,720
I'm glad you did. I'm glad.

937
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:41,800
You did. Fresh right on. Cool.
Yeah, so I wanna, you know,

938
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,560
I wanted do Chandler solid, so I
wanted to clean that up. And then, um,

939
00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:50,560
and then anybody who is interested
in looking at that Green Bicycle's

940
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,240
products, um, uh,

941
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,640
it's kind of weird cuz Green
is actually spelled G R e a N.

942
00:58:56,940 --> 00:58:59,080
And so that's, that's, you know,

943
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,600
that's trick and Will totally destroy
your Google results without it. And the,

944
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,280
the, the two products that, I
mean, it's their only two products,

945
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,840
but it's the two ones that I've used
all these years is the Happy Endings

946
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,720
Compost T Mix, and the Ocean
Bounty flowering mix. So,

947
00:59:14,770 --> 00:59:17,120
um, for, for anybody who
wants to look into that,

948
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,720
and you can get that stuff on Amazon
and their website. So, all right,

949
00:59:19,890 --> 00:59:24,480
so moving right along. So, so we're
coming up here to the end of this,

950
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,800
like huge first set and, and, and the,

951
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,040
the compost we're gonna
talk about next. Number six,

952
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:36,040
this is actually gonna set us up for set
two because we're gonna talk about this

953
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,080
variety of compost, um,

954
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:43,000
during most of probably
all of set two. So, so,

955
00:59:43,090 --> 00:59:46,520
um, so just, just set us
up there, Layton, and then,

956
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:47,800
and then I'll take us to commercial.

957
00:59:48,330 --> 00:59:53,240
So the sixth category is the
stuff that you sent me, man.

958
00:59:53,470 --> 00:59:57,240
Like, like I had a problem in my, you
know, I, I know you're a compost expert.

959
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,120
You consult for all these people.
You got this crazy ass lab in your,

960
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,160
in your garage, and another
one in Connecticut. Like,

961
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,080
like I know you were like mad
scientist, compost guy, but like,

962
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,960
I had not actually ever seen like what
you make, right? Like, I've always,

963
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,920
I've always appreciated you for our,
our friendship and conversation. But I,

964
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,160
but I, I, you know, I never seen
any of your compost. And so, um,

965
01:00:18,290 --> 01:00:22,280
so I had a fungus snap problem, which
we'll talk more about in the third set,

966
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,720
but you're like, Hey man, let me, let
me send you something to fix that. And,

967
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,160
and you, you shipped me up, um, um, uh,

968
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,720
two different bags of this compost,

969
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:36,280
which was unlike any other compost
that I had ever come across.

970
01:00:36,850 --> 01:00:40,600
Um, it was, you know, small granular,

971
01:00:40,700 --> 01:00:44,840
and it was rich and it smelled
so good. I wanted to eat it.

972
01:00:45,460 --> 01:00:49,200
And it, it, like, I mean,
not to sound too woo woo, I,

973
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,720
I feel like I felt it alive. I felt
like I was getting vibes off of it.

974
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,320
Like when I opened it,
like I was, you know,

975
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,360
I got like a hit of the smell
and I'm like, Whoa, what is this?

976
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:05,320
This is very unlike anything
else that I have been given as

977
01:01:05,410 --> 01:01:10,160
compost. And then, um, you
know, you told me to just, uh,

978
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:15,120
you know, um, uh, I think you had me
brew it and, and then, and then I put it,

979
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:19,960
put it on, and it caused all of this
like, immediate biological change,

980
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,640
which we're gonna talk about
more in set two. But this,

981
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,560
after talking to you with
talking to you more about it, um,

982
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:33,480
you explained to me why this
kind of compost is in a category

983
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,320
all of its own. So, so please explain
what's different about this cat,

984
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,120
this category of compost that I
had never even considered. And,

985
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,920
and then, so like, set us up and then,
and then I'll take us to commercial.

986
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:50,400
Okay. So we'll get into the
process in the next set,

987
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,800
but bottom line is it's a
biological inoculate. Um,

988
01:01:54,980 --> 01:01:59,920
the foundation of it is palm, so
particulate or organic matter. So you,

989
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:02,880
you notice that really fine
particulate mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

990
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:07,920
but you also noticed it was super
fluffy. And that's the key to this, uh,

991
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:12,560
that fluffiness allows for gas
exchange. Um, it allows the,

992
01:02:12,620 --> 01:02:15,400
for heavy colonization of, of, you know,

993
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:21,240
<laugh> very, very diverse biology, um,

994
01:02:21,370 --> 01:02:25,920
in a way that, um, does
not force competition.

995
01:02:27,010 --> 01:02:29,480
So ev not everybody's fighting
for the same resource.

996
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:33,800
They're just there in suspension,
um, just to be woken up and,

997
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:38,740
and by you, uh, whether you're brewing
them or top dressing with them.

998
01:02:39,310 --> 01:02:41,500
Um, so basically it's,

999
01:02:41,970 --> 01:02:45,260
look at it like condominiums
I'm building, you know,

1000
01:02:45,260 --> 01:02:49,870
every one of those tiny
little particulate is a

1001
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:53,870
giant condominium, a city full of
all different types of biology,

1002
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:59,230
um, that are there. Um,
basically just waiting to be, um,

1003
01:02:59,230 --> 01:03:03,710
provided with the environment
that they can really, um,

1004
01:03:03,810 --> 01:03:08,550
you know, expand in and, and thrive
in. So that's why that's different.

1005
01:03:08,550 --> 01:03:12,710
And we'll get into the ingredients
in the process, uh, in the next set.

1006
01:03:13,530 --> 01:03:16,950
Hit hit the hit hit the key thing
for me though, which is, um,

1007
01:03:16,950 --> 01:03:19,590
the fact that it's, it's
not a thermal compost.

1008
01:03:20,890 --> 01:03:25,590
Now. It is not. And, and in most
ways it would be considered, uh,

1009
01:03:25,590 --> 01:03:28,790
immature. And the reason, um,

1010
01:03:28,790 --> 01:03:33,510
it would be considered immature
is because when I take this

1011
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:38,790
start product, which is the, the
biological compost that I made,

1012
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:43,510
uh, non thermo fillic, we call it
cold composting. Um, I screen it,

1013
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:49,150
uh, numerous times. Um, so I'm
screening out the big stuff. Um,

1014
01:03:49,150 --> 01:03:54,110
I'm using forces to break off all of the

1015
01:03:54,350 --> 01:03:59,070
organisms, the human folic acids, um, to
break down the little pieces that are,

1016
01:03:59,070 --> 01:04:03,990
tend to be clumped together
or sheared off of a bigger

1017
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:05,150
piece of organic matter.

1018
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:10,230
So it's those mechanical processes
and then the screening that

1019
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:14,470
allows me to get that poem,
those fine little particulates,

1020
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:15,490
um,

1021
01:04:15,490 --> 01:04:20,070
and suspend them in a solution
so that they can be colonized

1022
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,310
by all the different diverse bacteria
and biology that I've put into play.

1023
01:04:24,690 --> 01:04:28,710
And this idea that it's a cold compost,
I haven't heard that term before.

1024
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:33,390
I like it. Um, you know, you, when we
talked about this earlier in the week,

1025
01:04:33,390 --> 01:04:37,110
it was interesting cuz you said, you
know, all of the other compost, all right,

1026
01:04:37,310 --> 01:04:38,470
probably not the vermaculture, but,

1027
01:04:38,490 --> 01:04:42,030
but most of the other compost
that we have talked about today,

1028
01:04:42,180 --> 01:04:46,750
they have all been heated to like,
what, 1 65 or something, because mm-hmm.

1029
01:04:46,790 --> 01:04:49,750
<affirmative> because people are trying
to, you know, kill the seeds and,

1030
01:04:49,750 --> 01:04:53,110
you know, make it, make it a
little more inert. Um, but,

1031
01:04:53,110 --> 01:04:57,990
but really that's also killing all
the microbes, which is really what,

1032
01:04:57,990 --> 01:05:02,070
what so many of us, uh, natural
farmers are chasing after.

1033
01:05:02,070 --> 01:05:04,750
And it really astonished
me that, you know,

1034
01:05:04,750 --> 01:05:07,190
to realize that I'm
always thinking about, um,

1035
01:05:07,270 --> 01:05:12,150
using my compost teas because I
wanna pour microbes into my soil

1036
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:16,390
to help buoy the rise oe. But really, um,

1037
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,480
if it's a thermal compost,
it means that like,

1038
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,880
that stuff's like mostly
been wiped out already versus

1039
01:05:25,470 --> 01:05:30,090
this cold compost where even though

1040
01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:31,490
we'll talk more about this in a second,

1041
01:05:31,490 --> 01:05:34,170
it sounds like it's dangerous
because it's all like wild in there.

1042
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,450
Like what I imagine I'm
doing with a thermal

1043
01:05:38,740 --> 01:05:42,810
compost tea really is happening at a much

1044
01:05:43,260 --> 01:05:48,210
smaller level than if I
were to use a cold compost

1045
01:05:48,210 --> 01:05:49,043
tea.

1046
01:05:49,580 --> 01:05:51,650
Correct. And the one
thing you're missing too,

1047
01:05:51,650 --> 01:05:56,410
is the most important reason to go
thermal fillic is to kill pathogens.

1048
01:05:56,620 --> 01:06:01,570
Oh, all right. So they kill weed seeds.
Yes. Um, that's a, a byproduct of,

1049
01:06:01,580 --> 01:06:05,810
of the process. But the goal is to, um,

1050
01:06:05,810 --> 01:06:09,250
knock back all of the potential
pathogens. Uh, remember a lot of,

1051
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,050
a lot of compost is based on
manures, right? High end, um,

1052
01:06:13,290 --> 01:06:17,370
anaerobic digestion, which is the
other piece that we did talk about.

1053
01:06:18,100 --> 01:06:22,450
Um, but the Thermo Fillic
component is to basically,

1054
01:06:23,100 --> 01:06:27,810
uh, provide the same thing as an anaerobic
digestion. You're killing everything.

1055
01:06:28,620 --> 01:06:33,530
Um, and then starting over, starting
fresh. And so, yeah, that's, that's why

1056
01:06:35,330 --> 01:06:37,340
I went to, um,

1057
01:06:37,650 --> 01:06:42,580
cold composting was because I
could not get the, the biological,

1058
01:06:43,230 --> 01:06:48,220
um, diversity that I was looking for
when I went thermophilic. But again,

1059
01:06:48,220 --> 01:06:52,020
I don't use any manures, I
don't use any food waste.

1060
01:06:52,020 --> 01:06:56,980
I use purely vegan compost.
So this is just plants.

1061
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:02,580
All right. So we will dig into that,
uh, even more, uh, for set two.

1062
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:07,100
And, uh, and if you're still with us,
uh, uh, I appreciate you. This is,

1063
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:11,900
this is a solid hour first set, which
is the longest first set I've ever had.

1064
01:07:12,270 --> 01:07:17,060
Um, but, um, I care very
much about this topic and,

1065
01:07:17,110 --> 01:07:17,760
um,

1066
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:22,140
and there's no way that
I wanted to do this topic

1067
01:07:22,740 --> 01:07:26,620
short shift, right? Like, if we're
gonna do it, let's fricking do it. And,

1068
01:07:26,620 --> 01:07:30,260
and so if you're still here with us
and you're caring about all this,

1069
01:07:30,260 --> 01:07:34,540
like you're our kind of people, and I
really appreciate that you're here. So,

1070
01:07:34,540 --> 01:07:37,500
um, we're gonna go ahead and take
a short break and be right back.

1071
01:07:37,690 --> 01:07:39,500
You're listening to Shaping Fire,

1072
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:43,060
and my guest today is Soil Biologist
Layton Morrison. And, you know,

1073
01:07:43,060 --> 01:07:45,700
without these advertisers
shaping Fire would not happen.

1074
01:07:45,710 --> 01:07:49,780
So please do support them and let you
let them know you heard about them Un

1075
01:07:49,780 --> 01:07:50,613
shaping Fire.

1076
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,170
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1077
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:00,450
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1078
01:08:00,450 --> 01:08:02,850
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1079
01:08:03,460 --> 01:08:07,810
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1080
01:08:07,810 --> 01:08:11,650
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1081
01:08:11,650 --> 01:08:14,970
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1082
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:19,120
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1083
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:20,240
store bought edibles.

1084
01:08:20,910 --> 01:08:23,800
I talk a lot on this show about
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1085
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,760
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1086
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:31,480
the Magical Butter machine can empower
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1087
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control of how you use
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1088
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I've been making my own butters
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1089
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1090
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1091
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1092
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1093
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temperature for the perfect
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1094
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you achieve your desired infusion
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1096
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1099
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1100
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One of the reasons why no-till cannabis
growing is so valued by farmers is

1104
01:09:41,230 --> 01:09:45,430
because the mycelium networks in the soil
remain established from year to year.

1105
01:09:45,810 --> 01:09:49,790
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essential because they're the nutrient

1106
01:09:49,790 --> 01:09:54,230
super highways that extend far and wide
in the substrate to feed your plants.

1107
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1108
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1109
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1110
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1111
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1112
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1113
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1114
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:23,830
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1115
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1116
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1117
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1118
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1119
01:10:40,860 --> 01:10:45,030
I love using dynami o to both speed up
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1120
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:49,230
soil, but also as a bios stimulant
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1121
01:10:49,410 --> 01:10:53,430
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1122
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1123
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:59,030
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1124
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1125
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1128
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1129
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1130
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1131
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1133
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1134
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1135
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1136
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1137
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1138
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1139
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vegetable and ornamental
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1141
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many cannabis cultivators are moving
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1142
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1161
01:13:16,670 --> 01:13:20,780
Welcome back. You are listening to
Shaping Fire, and I am your host sh Golos.

1162
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,820
And my guest today is Soil
Biologist Layton Morrison.

1163
01:13:24,910 --> 01:13:27,740
So here we are at set two. During set one,

1164
01:13:27,740 --> 01:13:32,500
we looked at a wide variety of the
things that we come in contact with that

1165
01:13:32,670 --> 01:13:37,420
is labeled compost. And we did
our best to make sense of them,

1166
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,180
and we found ourself at
the end with, um, you know,

1167
01:13:41,180 --> 01:13:46,140
focusing on the kind of compost that
that I think that I'm usually looking

1168
01:13:46,140 --> 01:13:50,180
for. Um, you know, you know much
of the other types, the, you know,

1169
01:13:50,180 --> 01:13:54,740
the curated compost and the vermaculture
compost and the nutrient compost, like,

1170
01:13:54,740 --> 01:13:58,180
like all of that stuff is, are
things that I use in my garden,

1171
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,220
But most of the time,

1172
01:14:01,250 --> 01:14:05,820
myself as a natural farmer
interested in regenerative,

1173
01:14:06,550 --> 01:14:10,660
um, you know, cultivation
and feeding the R oe, um,

1174
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:13,320
I'm really wanting to, you know,

1175
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:18,080
feed and add microbe life.
I want to add biology.

1176
01:14:19,180 --> 01:14:23,680
And, um, and, and so we, we ended
the first set talking about,

1177
01:14:24,050 --> 01:14:27,560
um, cold compost that
have not been heated. We,

1178
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:32,480
that where all the biology is still alive.
And so in this set, we're gonna talk,

1179
01:14:32,570 --> 01:14:37,040
um, a bit about the difference,
um, between that and the,

1180
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:41,840
and the other composts and the biology.
And also I'm very interested in,

1181
01:14:41,890 --> 01:14:43,000
um, you know, if,

1182
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:47,400
if one of the reasons we heat thermal
compost is get rid of the pathogens that

1183
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,280
makes this unheated microbe
inoculate this cold compost sound

1184
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:57,040
like wild, like wild ways. So, so,
so, so let, let's just start, um,

1185
01:14:57,430 --> 01:15:00,480
with the difference. You know,
you, you have spoken on this,

1186
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:02,320
on this show before, uh, uh,

1187
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:07,040
briefly about the difference
between soil science and soil

1188
01:15:07,050 --> 01:15:11,960
biology. And, um, you
know, I, I, my, you know,

1189
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:16,280
back of the envelope is just like
soil sciences, nutrition and minerals,

1190
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,040
and soil biology is living stuff. But,
but honestly, we haven't gone into,

1191
01:15:20,180 --> 01:15:23,520
you know, in depth so far. So I
could, I could have it wrong. So,

1192
01:15:23,610 --> 01:15:26,480
so why don't we start there and then
we can start to hang the rest of the

1193
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:28,640
conversation on that. Um, Layton.

1194
01:15:29,060 --> 01:15:32,480
All right, that sounds good.
And, you know, thank you again,

1195
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:34,640
Shango for doing this because you we're,

1196
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:39,200
we're having a conversation that has
needed to happen for many years now about,

1197
01:15:39,580 --> 01:15:44,040
you know, whether it's a compost
is should be called compost,

1198
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,680
or whether it's needs other
names. And I, and you know,

1199
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,840
just recently in the last couple
years, I've seen, you know,

1200
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:54,680
like particular organic matter and
mineral associate organic matter come

1201
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,800
about as, as words that
are provide value. Um, and,

1202
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,640
and this next part, which is
also equally as important is,

1203
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:05,680
is the understanding that soil
is actually three components.

1204
01:16:06,450 --> 01:16:10,680
It is the physical sand, so clay and
organic matter and their relationship,

1205
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:14,800
which is very important. Second is soil
chemistry, and third is soil biology,

1206
01:16:15,550 --> 01:16:17,480
soil science base,

1207
01:16:17,710 --> 01:16:21,120
everything on two of those three pieces,

1208
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:25,960
which is the physical and the
chemical. And this is due to,

1209
01:16:26,290 --> 01:16:27,123
um,

1210
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,360
economic based systems. And.

1211
01:16:32,440 --> 01:16:37,040
Like, and like human reductionism, right?
We always, we always value life last,

1212
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:37,873
right?

1213
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,600
Seems to be the way should I
go really seems to be the way,

1214
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:44,760
especially if you look at where we are
as a species at this point in time.

1215
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:45,680
<laugh>.

1216
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:46,513
<Laugh>.

1217
01:16:46,890 --> 01:16:50,760
We won't go there, all right?
But basically, soil science is,

1218
01:16:50,770 --> 01:16:53,000
is chemistry heavy. Um,

1219
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:58,040
everything has been based on building
fertilizers to grow more crops,

1220
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,320
to feed more people, regardless
of nutritional value,

1221
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:03,640
which makes no sense to me. Um,

1222
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:08,400
the only real way to at achieve
nutrient dense food is through

1223
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:11,160
biology. It's that critical, uh,

1224
01:17:11,460 --> 01:17:16,400
biogeochemical interactions that
allow that plant to pull up these

1225
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:18,840
nutrients, um, and, and,

1226
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:23,600
and regulate itself as to what
it wants instead of being force

1227
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,760
fed, um, and pk.

1228
01:17:26,010 --> 01:17:31,000
So that is why there's this
huge disconnect in soil

1229
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,160
science versus soil biology. Um, until Dr.

1230
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:39,040
Lane Ingham made the world
aware that there is life under

1231
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:43,720
their feet, uh, people didn't
even consider soil biology as,

1232
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,880
as a real thing. And so in many ways,

1233
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,760
she's pioneered the eye opening of,

1234
01:17:49,850 --> 01:17:54,560
of the masses to the fact
that there is more, uh,

1235
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,840
going on in the soil than just
physical and chemical. Um,

1236
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:02,920
that there's this critical
bridge called biological, uh,

1237
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:07,560
that allows the chemistry
to flow in and out of the

1238
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:12,040
physical components and into
the plant directly. So that's,

1239
01:18:12,230 --> 01:18:15,520
that's an important conversation
needs to happen, is that, you know,

1240
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,720
the soil science world has got to, uh,

1241
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:23,600
knock down the ivory towers of
just chemistry and really start to

1242
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:27,800
open up to this, uh,
interdisciplinary, uh,

1243
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:32,280
mode of operation, um, that will
unlock these really important,

1244
01:18:32,570 --> 01:18:36,280
um, secrets. I sent you a
paper recently, which I,

1245
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:39,000
I'm sure you're gonna enjoy
reading time and time again,

1246
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,960
because there's just so much
information in that, um,

1247
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,820
that basically kind of explains that this,

1248
01:18:46,170 --> 01:18:50,260
this organic matter, we're not
gonna call it compost anymore.

1249
01:18:50,260 --> 01:18:54,940
It's organic matter. It's just in
different phases of decomposition. Um,

1250
01:18:55,230 --> 01:18:59,020
provide this incredibly powerful, um,

1251
01:18:59,810 --> 01:19:04,540
home, um, city, uh, globe cons,
consider it a planet that,

1252
01:19:04,540 --> 01:19:06,020
that aggregate is a planet.

1253
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:10,580
And inside that planet is all
of this magic that's going on,

1254
01:19:10,580 --> 01:19:15,260
that that's protecting
itself. It, it's evolving. Um,

1255
01:19:15,260 --> 01:19:19,300
it's, it's producing,
uh, more inoculate for,

1256
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:23,980
for more expansion, for, for
better soil structure to,

1257
01:19:23,980 --> 01:19:25,700
to accept moisture.

1258
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:29,020
The more moisture that goes in
that gets held in those aggregates,

1259
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:33,460
the more densely populated they can
become, the more they can clean the water,

1260
01:19:33,460 --> 01:19:37,780
the more they can provide foods for
other organisms. So it's really the,

1261
01:19:37,780 --> 01:19:42,420
the foundation of everything
is that bio geochemical

1262
01:19:42,420 --> 01:19:46,020
processes that are occurring
within, inside that aggregate. Now,

1263
01:19:46,020 --> 01:19:50,100
is that aggregate, uh,
poem or mo Well, <laugh>,

1264
01:19:50,210 --> 01:19:54,100
that's the thing is when you get into
mineral associated organic matter,

1265
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:58,900
you get into a environment where
you're compacted. Now you're, you're,

1266
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:03,060
you don't have the gas or air
exchange, I should say. Um,

1267
01:20:03,060 --> 01:20:06,220
you don't have the CO2 leaving
and the oxygen or the, the air,

1268
01:20:06,220 --> 01:20:11,120
atmospheric air coming down. You
don't have the, the same, um,

1269
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:14,200
ability to, to aggregate. Um,

1270
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:18,280
that's why it's so much
more stable than poem. Um,

1271
01:20:18,610 --> 01:20:21,760
so I'm sorry I got way off
track there, but I think,

1272
01:20:21,790 --> 01:20:26,600
I think that's important to really
differentiate the difference between,

1273
01:20:27,010 --> 01:20:30,880
um, these phases of, of decomposition.

1274
01:20:30,990 --> 01:20:32,840
Sure. I'll bring you back in. Uh, but,

1275
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,680
but since you mentioned the
paper that you sent me yesterday,

1276
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,120
we might as well plug it and, um, uh,

1277
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:42,440
I will also have a link to it on the, uh,

1278
01:20:42,440 --> 01:20:47,120
page for this episode on the
Shaping Fire website. Um, but the,

1279
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:50,360
but the, but the, the,
the, the science paper,

1280
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,800
which was a fantastic read last night,

1281
01:20:53,170 --> 01:20:57,040
is called Will Fungi
Solve the Carbon Dilemma,

1282
01:20:57,460 --> 01:20:59,040
and it's by, uh,

1283
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:04,400
s Amelia Ula and Ellie Morian. Um,

1284
01:21:04,430 --> 01:21:08,600
anyway, it's, it's, it's a
fascinating read and, um, um,

1285
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:13,520
and we'll be talking more about the,
the, the fungal aspects of this paper,

1286
01:21:13,820 --> 01:21:18,520
you know, towards, towards the
latter half of this set. But, um,

1287
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:23,160
what you're saying, Layton is,
is spelled out very specifically.

1288
01:21:23,650 --> 01:21:27,560
Uh, they're talking about having
an increase in soil biology,

1289
01:21:27,870 --> 01:21:31,040
especially with fungal heavy compost, um,

1290
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:36,160
creating all of these soil
opportunities that are not

1291
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:40,080
available to the soil when not using

1292
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:45,720
biologically and funnily
active, um, agricultural soils.

1293
01:21:45,770 --> 01:21:49,240
So, so anyway, that's, that's
the paper. And so, we'll,

1294
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,720
we'll get back on topic here. So, um,

1295
01:21:51,930 --> 01:21:54,720
so we are talking about
the difference between, uh,

1296
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,960
the soil science and the
soil biology and, uh,

1297
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,320
and how most of, uh,

1298
01:22:01,870 --> 01:22:05,840
most of compost and, and
everything is looking at the,

1299
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:10,600
at the chemistry and the physicality
of the soil and not the biology. Um,

1300
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:15,280
I would like you to, uh, speak
to this idea of the, the, um,

1301
01:22:16,620 --> 01:22:19,800
the, the, the, the
variety of biology, right?

1302
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:23,960
Because NPK is so reductionist, and, and,

1303
01:22:24,220 --> 01:22:29,080
and most of us in cannabis were,
were brought up thinking, you know,

1304
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:33,680
hit our NPK numbers, feed the plant, or,
you know, if we came from the bottle,

1305
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,840
forced feed the plant. And, and, and,

1306
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:41,040
and what we are trying to tease
out is that, um, you know,

1307
01:22:41,420 --> 01:22:46,320
the compost, which is, is, is the
central, the, the focus of our topic.

1308
01:22:46,650 --> 01:22:51,520
We want it to be as
biologically active as possible.

1309
01:22:51,900 --> 01:22:56,680
And, and the way for us to do that
is to not cook it like a thermal

1310
01:22:57,170 --> 01:22:58,960
compost. So, I,

1311
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:03,080
I would like you to
speak to what that, uh,

1312
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:08,080
process is like to produce a
compost that has not been cooked.

1313
01:23:08,370 --> 01:23:13,040
Because creating a cooked thermal
compost is the only thing that

1314
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:14,120
I've ever heard of.

1315
01:23:15,290 --> 01:23:18,880
So, again, let's not call it compost,
let's call it organic matter. Fair enough.

1316
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:23,040
All right. And organic matter
is probably the largest,

1317
01:23:24,050 --> 01:23:29,040
uh, source of nutritional
holding capacity. All right?

1318
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,160
This is where biology meets chemistry.

1319
01:23:32,490 --> 01:23:36,760
So most people understand what
a catine exchange site is,

1320
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:38,520
or cat exchange capacity.

1321
01:23:39,130 --> 01:23:43,680
So that capacity is the
ability for nutrient solution

1322
01:23:44,370 --> 01:23:49,280
to be held on the bond site
so that it's not mobile and

1323
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:54,120
therefore safe and secure for
later harvest by the plant

1324
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,800
and the biology. All right? So that's,
that's really important to understand.

1325
01:23:58,330 --> 01:24:02,160
Um, so that being said, uh,

1326
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:07,160
trying to reel it back
into understanding the

1327
01:24:07,470 --> 01:24:12,400
fillic process of breaking
down organic matter, um,

1328
01:24:13,150 --> 01:24:17,800
I think that, um, the best,
the best way to approach it is,

1329
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:22,280
is to understand that when you get over

1330
01:24:22,350 --> 01:24:24,680
120 degrees, um,

1331
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:27,920
you are learn losing biological diversity.

1332
01:24:28,230 --> 01:24:33,160
When you hit 130 degrees, you
have lost pretty much everything.

1333
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,760
It's now just thermal fights that
are living in that organic matter

1334
01:24:37,970 --> 01:24:41,600
or on that organic
matter, I should say. Um,

1335
01:24:41,650 --> 01:24:46,440
so that's why if you are goal

1336
01:24:46,530 --> 01:24:50,640
is to achieve a biological compost,

1337
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:54,320
you have to be below 120 degrees. Now,

1338
01:24:55,070 --> 01:24:58,560
back in the day when I was studying under
lane, there was always this issue of,

1339
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:02,560
well, you know, you can bring in
pathogens and you can cause, you know,

1340
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:07,400
plant problems, uh, you
know, deficiencies and,

1341
01:25:07,660 --> 01:25:12,200
and all of these other things because
you've brought something in from somewhere

1342
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:16,480
else, and you've applied it,
uh, perhaps inappropriately,

1343
01:25:17,130 --> 01:25:20,920
um, onto, uh, into this
pod or onto this plant.

1344
01:25:21,460 --> 01:25:25,400
And my argument's always been that, um,

1345
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:30,240
diversity will out compete, um,

1346
01:25:30,900 --> 01:25:31,880
reductionist.

1347
01:25:32,370 --> 01:25:36,400
So if I've reduced this
down to just thermal fights,

1348
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:41,320
the potential for a pathogenic
outbreak is way greater than

1349
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:45,320
if I had a very biologically
diverse compost system.

1350
01:25:46,010 --> 01:25:47,680
Um, this was one of,

1351
01:25:47,730 --> 01:25:52,520
of many <laugh> conversations that
Elaine and I agreed to disagree about,

1352
01:25:53,140 --> 01:25:57,920
was the fact that for her, um, she has a,

1353
01:25:58,210 --> 01:26:02,160
an incredible reputation,
a celebrity status. Um,

1354
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:05,920
so she has to be very guarded about
what she says because people will

1355
01:26:06,460 --> 01:26:10,840
inappropriately, uh, be
morons and, and use more,

1356
01:26:11,250 --> 01:26:14,160
uh, because a little is good.
Oh, more is better. Well,

1357
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:18,680
that's how you get into these problems
with pathogen, uh, cross-contamination,

1358
01:26:19,330 --> 01:26:23,040
um, with deficient nutrient
deficient issues. Um,

1359
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:24,600
because what happens is you,

1360
01:26:24,630 --> 01:26:29,080
you've created a nut log or you've
created a pathogenic inoculation.

1361
01:26:29,730 --> 01:26:31,640
So that's why it's critical that,

1362
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:36,520
that she maintains that the
only way to make safe compost

1363
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:41,520
is to do it. Theil and I, and I agree
with her, because humans are just humans.

1364
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:46,120
They, they tend to do stuff without
really thinking first. And, and,

1365
01:26:46,300 --> 01:26:49,040
you know, making sure that they are, um,

1366
01:26:49,230 --> 01:26:53,960
crossing the ts and dotting
the eyes, uh, responsibly. Um,

1367
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,480
it tends to be, Oh, whatever's easy and
quickest for me is what I'm gonna do.

1368
01:26:57,480 --> 01:27:02,160
And that's not the appropriate
approach when you're dealing with, um,

1369
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:07,160
these critical types of,
uh, biological exposures.

1370
01:27:07,730 --> 01:27:12,720
Um, there's, there's some compost that
I've made that are, are definitely, uh,

1371
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:14,600
potentially very dangerous to play with,

1372
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:18,320
because if I have underlying health
issues and I'm playing with pseudomona

1373
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:23,080
bacteria, the potential for me to
actually make myself very sick is, is,

1374
01:27:23,090 --> 01:27:26,840
is real. Um, I think
that in many ways I've,

1375
01:27:27,030 --> 01:27:31,760
I've benefited from my work
playing with anaerobic,

1376
01:27:32,370 --> 01:27:35,360
um, fish manure, um, because I,

1377
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:38,760
early on was getting exposed to this
stuff. And like you said earlier,

1378
01:27:39,570 --> 01:27:41,400
if you get that stuff on you, it,

1379
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:45,080
it's days <laugh> before
you don't stink anymore.

1380
01:27:45,570 --> 01:27:49,800
So there's, there's, you know,
some serious issues to it. And,

1381
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:54,480
but I learned very quickly, um, I never
got violently sick. Um, I definitely,

1382
01:27:54,650 --> 01:27:57,360
uh, you know, had some
stomach issues, you know,

1383
01:27:57,360 --> 01:27:59,960
early on when I was playing with this
stuff because I didn't completely

1384
01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:04,960
understand, um, about the difference
between anaerobic digestion and,

1385
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:09,600
and aerobic, um, aerobic microbes,

1386
01:28:10,010 --> 01:28:13,760
um, versus anaerobic microbes
and, and the potential for, uh,

1387
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:18,360
them to make us very sick.
So that being said, um,

1388
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:19,160
let's,

1389
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:23,960
let's delve into what is a cold compost

1390
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,360
versus a thermo fillic, um,

1391
01:28:27,250 --> 01:28:29,880
in a cold composting situation. Um,

1392
01:28:29,940 --> 01:28:34,880
the sweet spot for massive proto

1393
01:28:34,890 --> 01:28:35,840
of production,

1394
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:40,600
and the reason I'm using proto is because
they're the ones that are doing all

1395
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:45,240
of, or the vast majority of
nutrient cycling. In other words,

1396
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:49,440
the nutrient cycling is that this bacteria
has all this good stuff locked up in

1397
01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:50,560
it, including nitrogen.

1398
01:28:50,860 --> 01:28:55,680
And this proso wants to eat that bacteria
cuz it wants the carbon to make itself

1399
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:58,040
grow and get bigger.
Doesn't want the nitrogen,

1400
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:00,720
doesn't care about what's in
the pantry of that bacteria.

1401
01:29:01,410 --> 01:29:05,600
So it consumes that and it poops out
pure nitrogen and all of these other

1402
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:10,480
elements in a plant available
form. And that's critical. Um,

1403
01:29:10,570 --> 01:29:14,200
in pretty much all soil
systems that I look at,

1404
01:29:14,220 --> 01:29:17,240
the number one issue is
the lack of protozoa.

1405
01:29:17,430 --> 01:29:21,240
That would be the flags and the
miba. Those are the aerobic ones.

1406
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:24,600
The AIC ones are the silts,
and then you get some fas,

1407
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:28,880
which we're not gonna get into that,
it's just too deep. But bottom line is,

1408
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:33,560
the sweet spot is 85 degrees and 70%,

1409
01:29:34,250 --> 01:29:37,680
uh, moisture content. So
when you squeeze the stuff,

1410
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,960
you will get water drops
forming in between your fingers.

1411
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:45,960
That tells you that it's above 50% if
you get no moisture or you're about

1412
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,880
50% if you get drops, now
you're pushing into the 60,

1413
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:53,960
70 and 80% moisture.
That's the sweet spot for,

1414
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:58,680
for protosome and production.
Um, it is also generally,

1415
01:29:59,010 --> 01:30:03,880
uh, a sweet spot for what
I want to call fungal

1416
01:30:04,790 --> 01:30:08,280
spoilation and germination. Um,

1417
01:30:10,250 --> 01:30:15,040
in the soil system itself,
um, plants don't like it,

1418
01:30:15,370 --> 01:30:18,000
Uh, that humid or that that high moisture,

1419
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:22,640
that's when you get into root ros and
you get into, um, other disease causing,

1420
01:30:22,730 --> 01:30:27,440
uh, potential pathogens.
Whereas in a compost pile,

1421
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:31,080
it's a different animal. Now, we're
not dealing with plant life yet.

1422
01:30:31,440 --> 01:30:36,320
We're just dealing with protosome and
production. And when I'm applying,

1423
01:30:36,650 --> 01:30:40,560
um, this, well, I probably need
to go through the process of,

1424
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:45,080
of how I do it. So I'm, I'm,
I'm taking these vegan, um,

1425
01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:50,280
composts. So it's just plants, no manures,
greens, and browns. Uh, the ratio is,

1426
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:53,840
is always 66% browns, 30, uh,

1427
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,840
three and a half percent greens. Um,

1428
01:30:56,840 --> 01:31:01,760
and you are using a
tremendous amount of water to,

1429
01:31:02,210 --> 01:31:06,640
to get that, to begin what I
call the thermo fillic rise.

1430
01:31:07,170 --> 01:31:10,760
We never want to get to the
theil process. That's 130.

1431
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:14,840
We've gotta keep it below
one 20. I generally tell
people, keep it below one 15.

1432
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,880
If I get to one 15, I gotta
flip it. As a matter of fact,

1433
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,080
I gotta flip a pile this afternoon
because I'm at one 15 right now.

1434
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:24,720
That being said, uh,

1435
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:28,800
let the temperature go up to a
certain point. Uh, one 15 is max,

1436
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:33,000
and then I flip it. If it doesn't
get to one 15, then I never flip it.

1437
01:31:33,650 --> 01:31:37,800
Um, I just let it do its thing and I
watch it until it starts to come down.

1438
01:31:38,300 --> 01:31:40,840
Not quite to ambient.
Ambient would be the,

1439
01:31:40,940 --> 01:31:43,320
the temperature outside environment.

1440
01:31:43,410 --> 01:31:46,080
So today it's 75 is always and sunny.

1441
01:31:46,610 --> 01:31:48,960
So when it's 75 degrees,

1442
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:53,960
and I know it's gone through
the biological process or the

1443
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:58,800
thermo fillic rise, that that never
got to thermo fillic phase. Um,

1444
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:01,720
so I, I brought it up, but I
kept it in the meso fillic.

1445
01:32:01,820 --> 01:32:06,480
Now that's considered immature compost
because it's not really well broken down.

1446
01:32:07,010 --> 01:32:09,360
So how do I break it
down at that point? Well,

1447
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:14,080
that's where I get into these mechanical
forces. I use agitation, aeration,

1448
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:19,320
vibration, uh, spin, so gravity, um,

1449
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:20,880
all of these things to,

1450
01:32:21,330 --> 01:32:25,080
to get that immature compost to

1451
01:32:25,820 --> 01:32:28,730
harvest the, the things
that I'm looking for,

1452
01:32:28,730 --> 01:32:33,250
which is the biology and,
and the smallest bits poem,

1453
01:32:33,510 --> 01:32:37,290
particulate organic matter that
I can get through that process.

1454
01:32:37,310 --> 01:32:40,450
And then whatever's left, goes right
back into the compost pile again.

1455
01:32:40,700 --> 01:32:42,010
So it continues to break down. So are,

1456
01:32:42,010 --> 01:32:46,290
are you describing mechanical processes

1457
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:50,290
that you, um, uh, submit the.

1458
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:52,370
Immature compost.

1459
01:32:52,370 --> 01:32:55,730
The immature organic material to, um,

1460
01:32:55,730 --> 01:33:00,290
that replaces what is normally done

1461
01:33:00,700 --> 01:33:02,730
by breaking down with thermals.

1462
01:33:03,140 --> 01:33:07,570
Or, or time, or time? Cause again,
right? You can, you can stack up a,

1463
01:33:07,570 --> 01:33:11,890
a pile ships, uh, or, or any
organic matter for that matter,

1464
01:33:13,210 --> 01:33:14,810
<laugh> any organic
matter for that matter.

1465
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:21,490
And it will go through a
decom decomposition phase.

1466
01:33:21,980 --> 01:33:24,970
Um, whether it gets hot, whether
it goes thermo fillic or not. It,

1467
01:33:24,970 --> 01:33:27,210
it doesn't matter. I mean,
I don't know about you,

1468
01:33:27,210 --> 01:33:30,170
but growing up in New England,
we had to rake leaves every fall.

1469
01:33:30,310 --> 01:33:33,410
And we would take those leaves and
dump 'em over at the edge of the swamp,

1470
01:33:33,750 --> 01:33:36,250
and that pile would be
like five feet tall,

1471
01:33:36,250 --> 01:33:40,490
and me and my sisters would jump in it.
We'd have a blast throwing theses and,

1472
01:33:40,490 --> 01:33:43,130
you know, running down the
hill and fast as we can,

1473
01:33:43,130 --> 01:33:45,930
trying to dive into the pile mm-hmm.
<affirmative>. But come spring,

1474
01:33:45,930 --> 01:33:49,930
that pile was gone. It
was just this low lump of,

1475
01:33:49,940 --> 01:33:54,080
of what was left of, we
call it leaf mold nowadays,

1476
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,520
but just what was left
of all those leaves.

1477
01:33:57,130 --> 01:34:01,520
So that went through a breakdown
process, but it never got hot. It never,

1478
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,360
we never saw those piles steaming.

1479
01:34:03,930 --> 01:34:06,560
So there was no major heat exchange,

1480
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:10,360
but there was definitely some minor
heat exchange in order for that to break

1481
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:11,193
down.

1482
01:34:12,030 --> 01:34:14,920
When you add the water, the, um, the,

1483
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:19,360
the 85 degrees and 70% moisture,
that's a, that's a lot of moisture.

1484
01:34:19,890 --> 01:34:21,240
Um, uh,

1485
01:34:21,650 --> 01:34:26,080
is the water involved because
it's there to keep the

1486
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:29,680
temperature from spiking, I think
you called it a thermo fillic rise.

1487
01:34:30,060 --> 01:34:31,440
I'm not very familiar with that.

1488
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:36,120
I'd like to know what happens during
the thermo fillic rise and what's, what,

1489
01:34:36,190 --> 01:34:38,320
what's ha like, why, why so much water?

1490
01:34:39,090 --> 01:34:40,800
So the water, um,

1491
01:34:41,410 --> 01:34:45,040
is broken into H two O, right?

1492
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:48,960
So we have oxygen and we have
hydrogen. There are a lot of, uh,

1493
01:34:49,790 --> 01:34:53,910
bacterial constituents that,
that thrive on hydrogen.

1494
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:59,160
So they consume hydrogen
as a fuel source to

1495
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:02,920
break apart the nitrogen
and the organic matter,

1496
01:35:02,930 --> 01:35:06,480
or the carbon off of the
organic matter. All right?

1497
01:35:06,610 --> 01:35:11,480
So there are also other
forms of bacteria that

1498
01:35:11,480 --> 01:35:16,120
consume the oxygen to do their
part in breaking the nitrogen

1499
01:35:16,180 --> 01:35:20,000
and the carbon off of each other.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.

1500
01:35:20,130 --> 01:35:24,200
So water's the food, water's life,
right? There's no joke to that.

1501
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:26,600
Water is life without it,

1502
01:35:26,820 --> 01:35:29,680
and nothing ceases to exist.

1503
01:35:30,370 --> 01:35:34,000
So that water is just a fuel source.
It has nothing to do with, with,

1504
01:35:34,110 --> 01:35:37,320
with regulating temperatures. Not,
we're not putting out the fire,

1505
01:35:37,480 --> 01:35:42,200
we're just providing a food source for
the biology to do their part in breaking

1506
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,920
the nitrogen and the carbon
off of each other. Mm-hmm.

1507
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:48,600
<Affirmative>. And so, um, uh, let's see.

1508
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:51,120
I'm gonna try to do a
summarization to this point. So,

1509
01:35:51,490 --> 01:35:56,320
so what we're trying to do
with the cold compost is that,

1510
01:35:56,810 --> 01:35:57,250
um,

1511
01:35:57,250 --> 01:36:02,040
we are going to a use only plant

1512
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:06,600
matter, so we don't have to worry
as much about pathogens like e coli.

1513
01:36:07,060 --> 01:36:11,840
And then we're not gonna let
the temperature go above 85

1514
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:16,720
degrees, but especially one 20.
But 85 is really our, our goal, um,

1515
01:36:16,770 --> 01:36:20,440
so that the, the, the pile, um,

1516
01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:24,080
gets warm naturally
from the breaking down,

1517
01:36:24,380 --> 01:36:28,720
but it doesn't get hot enough
to kill our microbes off.

1518
01:36:29,140 --> 01:36:32,960
And we can get away with that because
we're only using plant material instead

1519
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,840
of, um, animal material,
which can cause the pathogens.

1520
01:36:37,700 --> 01:36:38,300
And,

1521
01:36:38,300 --> 01:36:43,040
and then we are also going to do,

1522
01:36:43,690 --> 01:36:44,390
uh,

1523
01:36:44,390 --> 01:36:49,200
mechanical processes to
this organic material

1524
01:36:49,670 --> 01:36:53,200
that will further break it down, uh,

1525
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:57,840
to create more of these biological
opportunities in the soil

1526
01:36:57,900 --> 01:37:02,680
for life. Um, which also, uh,

1527
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,920
breaks down the compost
in ways, some of the,

1528
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:10,440
some of the ways that we would get
from a thermal version as well.

1529
01:37:10,530 --> 01:37:11,560
So we're,

1530
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:16,640
we're choosing to not use
the heat of a thermal fillic

1531
01:37:16,890 --> 01:37:21,200
compost, and instead we are using, um,

1532
01:37:21,470 --> 01:37:25,240
a safer inputs and also

1533
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:30,320
massaging the soil in ways
that opens up opportunities.

1534
01:37:30,620 --> 01:37:34,400
And so we have what is
essentially yes, a riskier,

1535
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:38,240
or I love what you said earlier,
a dangerous compost. Um,

1536
01:37:38,380 --> 01:37:42,760
but we have decreased that
risk by not using animal

1537
01:37:42,870 --> 01:37:44,120
products in there.

1538
01:37:44,740 --> 01:37:49,600
And we are making it more
diverse and more effective by

1539
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,800
doing some of these
mechanical preparations too.

1540
01:37:53,940 --> 01:37:57,680
Yes. And I think, think the other thing
is that you missed is seeds, right?

1541
01:37:57,750 --> 01:38:02,320
When I, when I harvest greens and
browns and I harvest greens and browns,

1542
01:38:03,170 --> 01:38:07,000
um, I don't harvest plants
that have gone to seed,

1543
01:38:07,340 --> 01:38:10,800
cuz I don't want the seed in my
compost. What I want is flowers,

1544
01:38:11,340 --> 01:38:13,320
but I don't want the seed pots.

1545
01:38:13,570 --> 01:38:16,960
So that's another piece to this
that's important. And the other one,

1546
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:20,040
which is we're missing
on is diversity. Like, I,

1547
01:38:20,550 --> 01:38:23,760
I collect like every
type of green I can find,

1548
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:28,720
every type of brown I can find. Um,
and then I use those proportionally,

1549
01:38:29,250 --> 01:38:29,710
uh,

1550
01:38:29,710 --> 01:38:34,320
volume not by weight to make my pile.

1551
01:38:34,660 --> 01:38:38,880
And the reason it's so
important to get the diversity

1552
01:38:39,330 --> 01:38:42,240
is because of endophytic biology.

1553
01:38:44,510 --> 01:38:47,160
It's a little bit deep, but
we gotta go there. All right.

1554
01:38:47,250 --> 01:38:50,880
So the endophytes that live
inside those green leaves, and in.

1555
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:55,520
The browns, we just did the
Jeff Lowen Fell's Show on, uh,

1556
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:56,560
bacterial endo fight.

1557
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:00,800
So anybody who just listened to that
show is already gonna be up to speed on

1558
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:02,960
this. So, so folks who want
to hear more about this,

1559
01:39:03,250 --> 01:39:07,280
go back and listen to the show about the
new Jeff Lowen Fell's book with that,

1560
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:08,113
please continue.

1561
01:39:08,460 --> 01:39:09,240
All right. So,

1562
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:14,120
but there's both endophytic bacteria
and there's endophytic fungi that

1563
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:18,760
live inside the plant
itself. So when that leaf,

1564
01:39:19,090 --> 01:39:23,720
um, is fall comes, and it, it
dries out and falls the ground,

1565
01:39:24,010 --> 01:39:28,520
if it lands on the ground, it's
going to release. Um, sapes, uh,

1566
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:32,160
this is the type of fungi that
decomposes organic matter,

1567
01:39:32,300 --> 01:39:36,680
but it's also gonna release
decomposing bacteria. Um,

1568
01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:39,520
say it lands in the water well,

1569
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:42,800
it's now going to become
aquatic microorganisms.

1570
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,840
Now you've heard me talk about
the great mass migrations, uh,

1571
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:50,720
before the great human expansions.
And this, here, again, is,

1572
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:55,120
was subject that is, um, somewhat
debating or debatable that,

1573
01:39:55,120 --> 01:40:00,040
that there is microbes that live
can live both terrestrial and

1574
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:01,960
aquatic. I'm a firm believer of it,

1575
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,720
but there's plenty of people out
there that would say, I'm, I'm bad.

1576
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:09,520
Shit crazy on this. But that
being said, I have proven it, uh,

1577
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:13,120
to myself many, many times in
the products that I've done. Um,

1578
01:40:13,260 --> 01:40:17,960
one of the key things that I've
focus on is diatoms. Um, those are,

1579
01:40:18,130 --> 01:40:18,963
uh,

1580
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:24,520
specific organism that lives generally
speaking in aquatic environments,

1581
01:40:24,620 --> 01:40:26,000
and it produces,

1582
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:30,520
or they produce oxygen
via two different sources.

1583
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,920
<laugh>, that's why they're so
powerful. One is through photosynthesis,

1584
01:40:35,180 --> 01:40:39,120
and the other is through,
um, consuming biology,

1585
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:42,040
consuming bacteria, consuming
nutrients that are, are,

1586
01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:44,320
are in the water system,

1587
01:40:44,380 --> 01:40:48,040
and then using their own internal, um,

1588
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:52,400
biological factories to take
that nutrient out of the water

1589
01:40:53,180 --> 01:40:57,760
and build their shells and build,
build their, uh, or I should say,

1590
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:02,360
divide and continue to expand as
a population. So I've applied,

1591
01:41:02,390 --> 01:41:07,120
I've applied diatom based, um,

1592
01:41:07,950 --> 01:41:10,640
well, it's one of my ingredients.
It's called fish brew,

1593
01:41:10,780 --> 01:41:15,320
for lack of better ways. You just,
let's get right after it. So fish brew,

1594
01:41:15,530 --> 01:41:16,240
uh, the,

1595
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:21,240
the farm on Cape Cod has fresh water
diatoms like I've never seen before.

1596
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:26,400
And I got so excited when I found
this stuff because diatoms are a

1597
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:30,960
great indicator. Like you, I can
apply, uh, diatoms to your soil,

1598
01:41:31,260 --> 01:41:34,680
and I can come back next year to year
after the year after, year after.

1599
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:37,400
And I'll be able to find
them. Um, if they're healthy,

1600
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:41,680
they will have a chloroplast. And I can
see the, their nucleus and their other,

1601
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:46,120
you know, um, organs, um, if they're
not healthy, if they're dead,

1602
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:50,560
they're just an empty shell
made of silica. And silicon
has a tendency to last,

1603
01:41:51,090 --> 01:41:52,720
uh, quite a while in the soil.

1604
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:57,600
So there's a great indication that I can
take aquatic organisms and put 'em in a

1605
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:02,360
terrestrial environment and they
will survive. Um, so that being said,

1606
01:42:03,750 --> 01:42:06,880
when I take my, um,

1607
01:42:07,620 --> 01:42:12,600
low temp compost and I throw it

1608
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:16,560
into, uh, a situation
where I'm using agitation,

1609
01:42:17,020 --> 01:42:21,920
centrifugal, force,
aeration, soft collision,

1610
01:42:22,460 --> 01:42:25,600
and I'm breaking off
all of these pieces of,

1611
01:42:25,730 --> 01:42:27,800
of what I want to call

1612
01:42:30,020 --> 01:42:34,400
predigested organic matter. So
it's in the digestion process,

1613
01:42:34,460 --> 01:42:38,120
but it hasn't been
completely digested into, uh,

1614
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:42,200
like a palm or a mom. Um, it,
there's still very much, uh,

1615
01:42:42,670 --> 01:42:46,680
a lot of organic matter that has not
gone through any kind of decomposition.

1616
01:42:47,530 --> 01:42:52,120
So now I've, I've taken that, I've,
I've, I've banged it against each other.

1617
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:56,640
I've pulled off all of the little
bits that have decomposed. Um,

1618
01:42:56,640 --> 01:43:01,480
and I've, I've done this in a, in an
aqueous environment with fish brew and,

1619
01:43:01,480 --> 01:43:02,840
and some worm castings.

1620
01:43:03,570 --> 01:43:08,440
So now all of a sudden I have
all of this suspended stuff, uh,

1621
01:43:08,440 --> 01:43:13,280
in the water column, uh, it looks like
chocolate water. So it's very, very, uh,

1622
01:43:13,280 --> 01:43:15,800
rich with hemic acids,
which we've talked about as,

1623
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:20,760
as the biological superfood have
introduced all these microbes

1624
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:25,120
from, from fish brew, um,
which is like incredible.

1625
01:43:25,130 --> 01:43:29,920
If you look at the, the DNA sequences of
what they've done, uh, it's called me,

1626
01:43:30,170 --> 01:43:31,640
me barcoding,

1627
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:36,640
where you're getting a general idea of
who's present or who's been there, um,

1628
01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:40,920
which gets deeper into horizontal gene
transfer, which we can't go there today,

1629
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:45,520
<laugh>. But that being said is,
now I have all of this diversity.

1630
01:43:45,590 --> 01:43:50,320
I have all the endo fights from, from
the, the decomposed organic matter.

1631
01:43:50,830 --> 01:43:52,480
I have all of these, uh,

1632
01:43:52,480 --> 01:43:56,440
biological constituents that
came in on the fish brew.

1633
01:43:56,900 --> 01:44:01,720
And then I have all of these secondary
and tertiary metabolytes from the

1634
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:06,400
digestion of the worms, um,
that is called worm castings.

1635
01:44:06,930 --> 01:44:10,680
So this, in many ways, you know,
when I started this journey,

1636
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:15,400
I had no idea what the fuck I was
doing. But now, 14, 15 years later,

1637
01:44:15,860 --> 01:44:18,760
I'm really seeing like, that was like, uh,

1638
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:23,120
what do you call intuition instinct
drove me down that path of, well,

1639
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:26,080
everyone talks about how great worm
castings are. I should add some of those.

1640
01:44:26,490 --> 01:44:28,840
Oh, and I know how good fish manure is,

1641
01:44:28,840 --> 01:44:33,000
cuz every time I play with it and I
appropriately aerobically stabilize it,

1642
01:44:33,060 --> 01:44:36,240
and I pour it on plants,
man, those plants explode.

1643
01:44:36,380 --> 01:44:39,400
And I also know the value of compost and,

1644
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:41,560
and the fact that it brings in these,

1645
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:45,840
these super foods like human and
folic acids, as well as all these, uh,

1646
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:48,160
secondary and tertiary metabolytes that,

1647
01:44:48,160 --> 01:44:53,080
that are happening during the
decomposition phase. So bam, there's a,

1648
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:55,440
there's a grand slam
home run for you mm-hmm.

1649
01:44:55,480 --> 01:44:56,920
<affirmative> by adding
all these things together,

1650
01:44:57,800 --> 01:45:01,920
using mechanical forces to
separate them, and then using,

1651
01:45:02,610 --> 01:45:05,640
uh, what I call dewatering techniques,

1652
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:10,600
which is through vibration vibrating
the organic matter to shed all of the

1653
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:12,840
liquid off of it. Um,

1654
01:45:13,060 --> 01:45:17,400
now I have a biological super sauce,

1655
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:21,480
<laugh>, secret sauce, whatever
you want to call it. Now,

1656
01:45:21,480 --> 01:45:26,360
if I want to make that shelf
stable, then I have to press it.

1657
01:45:26,890 --> 01:45:29,560
So take the dewatering to another level,

1658
01:45:30,260 --> 01:45:34,200
and then I take that and fluff it
up. And that's what you got was,

1659
01:45:34,220 --> 01:45:37,360
was that poem, inoculated poem.

1660
01:45:37,870 --> 01:45:41,480
That's easy to work with. Just put
it in a glass of water, stir it up.

1661
01:45:41,480 --> 01:45:44,720
As a matter of fact, uh, on
the podcast couple weeks back,

1662
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:48,680
I actually drank some, I put some 11
year old product in a glass of water,

1663
01:45:48,680 --> 01:45:52,120
stirred it up and drank it on camera
because I'd been telling people that I,

1664
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:54,960
I eat this shit all the time, Every time
I work with it, I get it in my mouth,

1665
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:57,960
my ears, it's always, my fingernails
are always dirty. So I'm,

1666
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:01,960
I'm just constantly being inoculated with
this stuff, <laugh>. So I proved that,

1667
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:06,840
hey, it's not gonna hurt you. It's
actually really super beneficial to your,

1668
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:11,200
your entire digestive track because
you're putting in microbes that aren't

1669
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:14,960
there, or weren't there, or haven't been
there for a long time that are doing,

1670
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:15,400
again,

1671
01:46:15,400 --> 01:46:20,280
all these crazy bio geochemical
reactions that we have only

1672
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:24,440
begun to discuss because
science is moving into an

1673
01:46:24,460 --> 01:46:29,280
interdisciplinary mode because the
reduction side of it has realized we can't

1674
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:32,200
just keep producing everything down to
nothing and then not talk to anybody

1675
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:36,080
about how does this affect their work
or how does this affect that processor?

1676
01:46:36,730 --> 01:46:40,640
So it, it's an interesting time to be
alive as these things are happening,

1677
01:46:40,900 --> 01:46:45,640
but we don't have the technology
yet to really delve down what

1678
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:48,920
those processes are and why they're
so important and how they are,

1679
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:52,800
are affecting everything
around them. So again, if,

1680
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:55,920
if you don't have the technology,
but you have the knowhow,

1681
01:46:56,390 --> 01:46:59,840
well then that's the key to the
whole thing is all right. I,

1682
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:03,720
I don't know why it works, but I know it
does work, so I'm gonna keep doing it.

1683
01:47:04,540 --> 01:47:06,200
And, and that's, Go ahead. Go ahead.

1684
01:47:06,230 --> 01:47:10,840
Okay. So, so, um, you know,
bringing this home a little bit to,

1685
01:47:11,130 --> 01:47:15,280
uh, like how it can be
used by the cultivator, um,

1686
01:47:16,610 --> 01:47:17,290
we,

1687
01:47:17,290 --> 01:47:22,280
it sounds like this cold
compost inoculate does all of

1688
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:27,000
the things that we think
a thermal compost will do.

1689
01:47:27,250 --> 01:47:32,240
Uh, the, you know, we, we, we, we use
a thermal compost as an amendment.

1690
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:35,160
We use a thermal compost
as a, as a top dress.

1691
01:47:35,160 --> 01:47:39,200
We use a thermal compost to meet
compost tea. Why do we do that?

1692
01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:44,040
Because we wanna add, um,
you know, life vibrance, uh,

1693
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:48,680
to our plants, but we know because
they've been cooked so hot,

1694
01:47:48,930 --> 01:47:53,840
because, you know, that's a smart thing
to do when there's pathogens. Um, that,

1695
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:57,800
that it's, it's actually
not as vibrant with life as,

1696
01:47:57,810 --> 01:48:00,840
as we would hope it would
be, um, in our gardens.

1697
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:05,480
And so what we've done
with this is we have, um,

1698
01:48:05,590 --> 01:48:10,120
used a lower temperature
and we have gathered our

1699
01:48:10,230 --> 01:48:14,920
microbes and, and protozoa
and other biology we have,

1700
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:19,360
we've gone through the effort to bring
them together from these three different

1701
01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:20,880
directions. And,

1702
01:48:20,940 --> 01:48:25,600
and we are actually creating
a air quotes compost,

1703
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:27,640
which is essentially organic matter.

1704
01:48:27,910 --> 01:48:32,360
That is actually what we
think of when we think of

1705
01:48:32,530 --> 01:48:36,880
compost. But the common
form of compost that we get,

1706
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:37,920
which is thermal,

1707
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:43,680
actually is not supercharged
the way we really want it to be.

1708
01:48:43,680 --> 01:48:48,520
And so this cold or organic
matter because of the

1709
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:49,920
care we've put into it,

1710
01:48:50,170 --> 01:48:54,760
is actually what we
idealize about compost.

1711
01:48:55,230 --> 01:48:57,280
Yeah. Biomimicry, right?
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

1712
01:48:57,280 --> 01:48:59,000
we talk about biomimicry all the time.

1713
01:48:59,310 --> 01:49:03,000
I've had arguments with people that say
there's no such thing as as compost in

1714
01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:05,440
nature. And I'm like, No,
you're wrong. Look at,

1715
01:49:05,480 --> 01:49:10,400
every time there's a flood that's
all piled up all the sticks and

1716
01:49:10,520 --> 01:49:14,040
brush and, and algae from the
bottom of the river is piled up,

1717
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:18,320
and that's float Sam, that's a
compost pile underneath the forest.

1718
01:49:19,390 --> 01:49:24,240
That's a compost pile. That's just
a giant compost pile. Dead animals,

1719
01:49:24,630 --> 01:49:29,040
dead sticks, leaves, you know, plants
that have come in and gone out,

1720
01:49:29,530 --> 01:49:32,160
um, they're all creating compost.

1721
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:34,800
Now that compost doesn't
heat up in the forest floor,

1722
01:49:35,180 --> 01:49:38,400
nor does it de float Sam
the pile that's, you know,

1723
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:41,880
left by the side of the river.
Those don't heat up. Those,

1724
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:45,600
those would be considered cold compost.
Do they heat up to some degree? Oh,

1725
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:49,680
I'm sure in, in pockets of it when
it's really dense and and compressed,

1726
01:49:49,790 --> 01:49:54,480
that's gonna heat up. But is it
gonna go thermo fillic? No, it's not.

1727
01:49:54,480 --> 01:49:58,000
It's not gonna, it's not gonna ever get
to a position where it could combust.

1728
01:49:58,420 --> 01:50:03,160
And that is the end of theil
phase. If you let it run,

1729
01:50:03,160 --> 01:50:07,680
run wild is combustion is when the
microbes start to produce alcohol,

1730
01:50:08,300 --> 01:50:12,760
and then it, and then it can, you
know, self combust. So, you know,

1731
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:16,960
again, thermo fights are, are
important to understand. And,

1732
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:21,920
and the getting your head wrapped
around the fact that you do

1733
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:25,880
not want to cross-contaminate, you
do not want to deal with pathogens,

1734
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:27,680
you do not want to deal with seeds.

1735
01:50:28,110 --> 01:50:32,920
Thermo fillic process is a great way
to bypass that potential problem.

1736
01:50:33,780 --> 01:50:37,880
All right. So, um, I wanna
go back to talking about the,

1737
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:42,080
the actual physical structure of good
compost. Uh, during the third set,

1738
01:50:42,080 --> 01:50:42,480
we're gonna,

1739
01:50:42,480 --> 01:50:46,360
we're gonna talk a little bit more about
your actual manufacturing techniques,

1740
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:50,800
all of these ways that you massage
it. But, um, you, um, you know,

1741
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:53,720
you made a special
point to talk about, um,

1742
01:50:54,110 --> 01:50:59,040
you're breaking the pieces down
to a small size using these

1743
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:00,560
other methods that we're gonna talk about.

1744
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:05,480
But you were very specific that the
reason that you're doing it is to

1745
01:51:05,510 --> 01:51:09,720
make these organic matter grains

1746
01:51:10,070 --> 01:51:14,240
have lots of housing and
community opportunities

1747
01:51:14,700 --> 01:51:19,440
for the microbes and protozoa
and ABA and other denin

1748
01:51:19,650 --> 01:51:21,880
of the R oe, right?
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So,

1749
01:51:21,880 --> 01:51:24,160
so talk a little bit that
about that would you,

1750
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:28,240
about the actual physical
structure of good compost.

1751
01:51:29,570 --> 01:51:31,680
So this goes back to poem,

1752
01:51:32,100 --> 01:51:36,720
particulate organic matter and moham
mineral associated organic matter,

1753
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:41,640
mineral associated organic matter is
going to be very dense, kind of like, um,

1754
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:46,880
worm castings except for even more
dense. So think of bulk density,

1755
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:49,840
how much something weighs by volume. Um,

1756
01:51:49,900 --> 01:51:54,240
and those weights are
going to be indicators of

1757
01:51:54,980 --> 01:51:57,520
how long that material,

1758
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:00,200
that organic matter's gonna
last in the soil system,

1759
01:52:01,290 --> 01:52:05,880
as well as how quickly it
will release its nutrient.

1760
01:52:06,650 --> 01:52:11,000
So poem will last two to three
months in an organic system,

1761
01:52:11,330 --> 01:52:14,720
uh, moham, um, will
last two to three years.

1762
01:52:15,090 --> 01:52:16,720
So there's a big difference
between, What do.

1763
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:18,320
You mean between what
last, what does last mean?

1764
01:52:18,690 --> 01:52:21,400
So, um, you throw, um,

1765
01:52:22,190 --> 01:52:26,480
poem down on a, on an orchard and
three months it's gonna be gone,

1766
01:52:26,480 --> 01:52:30,560
it's gonna be decomposed by all of
the biology, not the thermo fights,

1767
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:34,680
but the other decomposers,
whether that's fungi or bacteria,

1768
01:52:35,060 --> 01:52:37,360
but it's gonna be, it's gonna go away.

1769
01:52:37,750 --> 01:52:41,840
It's going to have been
used up as a nutrient

1770
01:52:42,420 --> 01:52:46,520
for the plants that you've applied
it to. Does that make sense? Yep, I.

1771
01:52:46,520 --> 01:52:47,030
Do.

1772
01:52:47,030 --> 01:52:49,200
Okay. So again, the,

1773
01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:53,280
the mom is gonna last years and
the poem's gonna last months.

1774
01:52:54,050 --> 01:52:58,640
So what that tells me
is that if I colonize

1775
01:52:58,790 --> 01:53:02,640
that poem and I apply it,

1776
01:53:03,590 --> 01:53:08,280
then what's gonna happen is we're gonna
have a fast nutrient release within,

1777
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:10,440
within three months.
It's all gonna be gone.

1778
01:53:10,440 --> 01:53:13,240
It's gonna be consumed and
released, plant available,

1779
01:53:14,130 --> 01:53:18,160
or at least stored in a, in
a biology in the bacteria.

1780
01:53:18,970 --> 01:53:23,160
Um, whereas moan, um, you're
not gonna get that fast release.

1781
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:25,440
You're gonna get a really,
really slow release,

1782
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:29,520
which is good for soil
structure. Um, cuz you want,

1783
01:53:29,620 --> 01:53:32,000
you want concrete foundations.

1784
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:36,880
You don't want to build your your
palace on bamboo stilts, right?

1785
01:53:38,100 --> 01:53:40,920
But if I'm trying to get, uh,

1786
01:53:43,140 --> 01:53:47,200
inoculation, I want to
get those microbes that,

1787
01:53:47,200 --> 01:53:52,200
that have set up shop and, and in
these condominium on, on this poem,

1788
01:53:53,750 --> 01:53:58,720
then the best way to do it is use
the poem because I know it's going

1789
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:02,760
to have released all of
that biology into the soil

1790
01:54:02,950 --> 01:54:07,240
relatively quickly. And
to be honest with you, um,

1791
01:54:07,480 --> 01:54:12,360
Momum is so dense, the bulk density
is so great that, that, again,

1792
01:54:12,360 --> 01:54:17,000
you don't have the ability for, um,
you know, mass colonization. You,

1793
01:54:18,950 --> 01:54:19,800
it's too dense,

1794
01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:24,320
it doesn't let the oxygen in to
feed the bacteria that in turn are,

1795
01:54:24,320 --> 01:54:29,200
are providing food sources for
the proto and it gets complex.

1796
01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:31,720
But I, I think I explained it okay there.

1797
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:36,280
Yeah. And so, um, the,
you want to have these,

1798
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:41,080
these small fluffy, um, you know,

1799
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:42,400
granular, I,

1800
01:54:42,400 --> 01:54:45,920
I guess it's probably the outside of
them or as an also we don't want anything

1801
01:54:46,080 --> 01:54:48,040
like smooth. Um,

1802
01:54:48,370 --> 01:54:53,240
so it creates all these like small
micro hotels for all of these microbes.

1803
01:54:53,240 --> 01:54:54,520
That is essentially the point.

1804
01:54:55,090 --> 01:54:58,560
Exactly, dude. Like when, remember
when we were smashing up rocks.

1805
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:03,080
<Laugh>? Yeah. Oh God, yeah. I remember
smashing up rocks to make my, uh,

1806
01:55:03,080 --> 01:55:07,360
to make my region tent with the,
with the soil horizons. Oh my God.

1807
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:10,120
Yep. Yep. So no smooth surfaces. Yeah.

1808
01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:15,800
Think of it like, um, if
you polish something, um,

1809
01:55:15,910 --> 01:55:20,360
it's very difficult for
oxidization for, uh,

1810
01:55:20,420 --> 01:55:24,840
you know, any kind of mechanical,
um, force to, to break it down.

1811
01:55:25,570 --> 01:55:30,160
So that polishes is, is protection.
And, and yes, you, you want porous,

1812
01:55:30,160 --> 01:55:33,440
you want surface area as
much as you possibly can get.

1813
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:36,840
So things can get into the
cracks and set up shop and,

1814
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:39,960
and set up their biofilm
and start to expand out.

1815
01:55:40,020 --> 01:55:44,040
But they can't do that on a smooth
surface. They're, they, they're,

1816
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:46,480
they don't have the benefit of,

1817
01:55:46,490 --> 01:55:49,800
of the protection on three sides. They're,

1818
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:54,760
they're basically exposed on 180
degrees on a polished surface where

1819
01:55:54,850 --> 01:55:59,160
if they're in a little crack or a
crevice, there's a very small exposure to,

1820
01:55:59,160 --> 01:56:00,440
to the outside environment.

1821
01:56:00,500 --> 01:56:03,880
All right. That makes sense. Uh,
especially with the word porous, that,

1822
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:06,480
that gives me the picture
I'm looking for. So, um,

1823
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:11,200
so the last thing I wanna talk
about here in set two is, um,

1824
01:56:11,650 --> 01:56:15,600
uh, what is essentially the point
of the, of the paper we refer,

1825
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:20,120
we referred to earlier, which
is talking about how, you know,

1826
01:56:20,690 --> 01:56:24,640
in this cold compost that
we are, are creating,

1827
01:56:25,570 --> 01:56:30,120
we want to have there be
a variety of funes there.

1828
01:56:30,570 --> 01:56:35,520
Um, and so like of course there is,
you know, you know, basic funes that,

1829
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:39,920
that we're all familiar with, with
like my cel. But this paper goes into,

1830
01:56:40,610 --> 01:56:40,960
uh,

1831
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:45,680
depth that there is a wide
variety of different fungal

1832
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:49,440
participants that the
more of them we have,

1833
01:56:49,820 --> 01:56:54,600
the more a combination
of fungals and bacterias

1834
01:56:54,600 --> 01:56:55,720
and nutrients. It,

1835
01:56:55,930 --> 01:57:00,800
it becomes this kind of wild mix and
match where it like a buffet that, that,

1836
01:57:01,010 --> 01:57:04,840
um, like everybody can get what they need.

1837
01:57:05,300 --> 01:57:06,560
But I, you know,

1838
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:11,440
I've never really heard anybody
talk too much about the variety of,

1839
01:57:11,440 --> 01:57:15,200
of funes except for like, Oh,
do you wanna make a, you know,

1840
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:18,240
bacteria dominant, um, compost tea,

1841
01:57:18,240 --> 01:57:21,000
or do you wanna make a
fungal dominant compost tea?

1842
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:25,960
That's about as far as I generally
hear it. So would you please address,

1843
01:57:26,250 --> 01:57:30,720
um, the, the, the fungal
in the cold compost,

1844
01:57:31,050 --> 01:57:34,600
uh, their importance and, um, you know,

1845
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:37,720
as much as you can tell us
like what they're doing there?

1846
01:57:38,750 --> 01:57:43,000
Okay, so you hit on a couple
of really important parts. Um,

1847
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:47,480
first one is imo, right?
Everybody's like imo, imo,

1848
01:57:47,480 --> 01:57:51,800
and IMO is the foundation of
natural farming. What is imo?

1849
01:57:52,190 --> 01:57:56,720
Well, I'll be honest with you,
it's yeasts. It's not safi fungi.

1850
01:57:57,230 --> 01:58:01,600
It's basically the precursor, the, the,

1851
01:58:01,740 --> 01:58:06,560
the success system that has
to be in place in order for

1852
01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:09,800
SAP robes to do their work, to come out,

1853
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:12,000
to have an environment
where they can survive.

1854
01:58:12,370 --> 01:58:16,600
So it goes back along
the same understanding
principles of soil succession.

1855
01:58:16,770 --> 01:58:20,560
So you start with a very
low f tob ratio, swamp, uh,

1856
01:58:20,900 --> 01:58:25,360
non non associated, uh, plants,
uh, more bacterially dominant.

1857
01:58:26,300 --> 01:58:28,560
And then you move all the
way up into the conifers,

1858
01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:31,720
which are very fung dominant and,

1859
01:58:31,720 --> 01:58:35,680
and wide variety of different,
uh, constituents that in play.

1860
01:58:36,130 --> 01:58:38,880
So in order to build that, um,

1861
01:58:39,230 --> 01:58:43,880
foundation or that roadway so
that you can burn in the groups

1862
01:58:43,890 --> 01:58:48,560
of, uh, following the
success groups into play,

1863
01:58:49,380 --> 01:58:52,800
you need those yeast. You need those, um,

1864
01:58:52,960 --> 01:58:56,000
lower success fungal, um,

1865
01:58:59,570 --> 01:59:00,740
life forms.

1866
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:05,180
I'm gonna use that term because
there are so much we don't know

1867
01:59:06,270 --> 01:59:08,180
so little in that paper. Um,

1868
01:59:08,180 --> 01:59:13,020
they talked about knowing about 0.01%

1869
01:59:13,500 --> 01:59:17,100
about what the fuck is really
going on in these biologics.

1870
01:59:17,100 --> 01:59:17,770
When I read that,

1871
01:59:17,770 --> 01:59:22,620
I actually screenshot it and circled
it and sent it to some of my compost

1872
01:59:22,620 --> 01:59:27,340
friends. I'm like, do you know,
we only know what 0.01% of,

1873
01:59:27,340 --> 01:59:29,780
of the microbes even are. Like, I,

1874
01:59:29,780 --> 01:59:34,580
I I was astonished to realize that we
know almost nothing about what's in our

1875
01:59:34,580 --> 01:59:35,140
soil.

1876
01:59:35,140 --> 01:59:38,180
Uhhuh. And, and then worse yet, uh,

1877
01:59:38,180 --> 01:59:42,580
the interactions and those interactions
are the key to the whole thing.

1878
01:59:43,090 --> 01:59:46,940
Like, like why does a thermo
fight heat up? Why, why is,

1879
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:49,940
why is that getting out of control?

1880
01:59:49,960 --> 01:59:53,460
Why is it because I put so much nitrogen
in there that if this pile's gonna

1881
01:59:53,460 --> 01:59:54,170
combust,

1882
01:59:54,170 --> 01:59:58,220
like what is that biogeochemical process
that's happening that's creating so

1883
01:59:58,220 --> 02:00:02,780
much heat? It, it's, it
gets crazy. Um, so you know,

1884
02:00:02,780 --> 02:00:03,660
that being said,

1885
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:09,580
IMO works so great because it's
putting all of the foods and

1886
02:00:09,880 --> 02:00:14,340
the succession species that need to
be present for some of these older

1887
02:00:14,340 --> 02:00:19,180
later succession species
to come into play. So, um,

1888
02:00:20,690 --> 02:00:23,680
in, in understanding the compost process,

1889
02:00:23,890 --> 02:00:28,000
in getting a fung dominated compost,

1890
02:00:28,470 --> 02:00:31,160
you've gotta have those yeasts to,

1891
02:00:31,160 --> 02:00:35,040
to even begin to get the sap robes
to come in and do their thing.

1892
02:00:35,040 --> 02:00:36,920
And we're not gonna get into micro I,

1893
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:41,800
but we're gonna stay with decomposing
fungi for right now. And the yeast,

1894
02:00:42,170 --> 02:00:44,680
um, and the molds, those are decomposers.

1895
02:00:45,090 --> 02:00:49,560
So they're good guys to have to
bring in. Think of pre predator,

1896
02:00:49,570 --> 02:00:50,920
we talk about this all the time.

1897
02:00:51,050 --> 02:00:55,720
So the yeast and the molds
are like deer and the sap

1898
02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:58,320
robes are like the saber tooth tiger or,

1899
02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:01,400
or the leopard that that's
gonna come in and eat them. Um,

1900
02:01:01,490 --> 02:01:06,440
so that's how you get that system to
start functioning is by creating the

1901
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:10,080
prey so that the predators come
in. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

1902
02:01:10,370 --> 02:01:13,360
so where are we gonna get
our predators from? Well,

1903
02:01:13,360 --> 02:01:15,720
we get 'em from old rotten wood chips. Um,

1904
02:01:15,720 --> 02:01:19,200
that's one of the major
sources for getting, um,

1905
02:01:19,420 --> 02:01:24,040
decomposing sap fungi, um, you call masum.

1906
02:01:24,250 --> 02:01:28,280
Uh, a lot of people don't understand
that maum is actually like a cord.

1907
02:01:28,790 --> 02:01:30,800
It's filled with hundreds,

1908
02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:34,520
if not hundreds of thousands of different
individual organisms that are all

1909
02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:38,720
working together, uh, like
a internet super highway.

1910
02:01:39,580 --> 02:01:44,200
And that white coating on the outside
that is actually a protection,

1911
02:01:44,610 --> 02:01:48,000
uh, against ation. So that when, if that,

1912
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:49,640
if that individual organism,

1913
02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:53,640
that individual sacro actually
got exposed to oxygen,

1914
02:01:54,010 --> 02:01:58,480
it would disintegrate or, or exposed
to uv, it would, it would disintegrate.

1915
02:01:58,810 --> 02:02:03,280
So that white coating is actually the,
basically, think of it as the, the,

1916
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:05,360
the wrapping around your electrical cord.

1917
02:02:05,470 --> 02:02:08,960
It's to prevent something from
going catastrophically wrong.

1918
02:02:09,700 --> 02:02:12,000
And the, the,

1919
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:16,720
the most interesting component
of that is that when you find

1920
02:02:17,030 --> 02:02:21,280
that you've, that my
cord in your year old,

1921
02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:26,040
two year old wood chips and you pick it
up and all those other little pieces of,

1922
02:02:26,040 --> 02:02:30,840
of organic matter are hanging on like
a web underneath it, now, you know,

1923
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:33,160
you've got, uh, many,

1924
02:02:33,270 --> 02:02:37,800
many different later succession
species of sap robes.

1925
02:02:38,130 --> 02:02:39,720
So that's why, again, if you,

1926
02:02:39,890 --> 02:02:44,400
if you take the time to actually harvest
these chips that are loaded with my

1927
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:49,040
solenium and you heat it up over 120,
you just wasted all your time. Mm-hmm.

1928
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:50,160
<affirmative>, you, you killed everything.

1929
02:02:50,650 --> 02:02:54,480
So that's why it's so important that
you keep this at a lower temperature so

1930
02:02:54,480 --> 02:02:59,280
that they will colonize your
organic matter so that when you

1931
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:02,200
go to actually strip it or use it,

1932
02:03:02,710 --> 02:03:07,040
they have gone through a spoilation
phase where they have, uh,

1933
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:11,960
gotten to a point where they grew out a
ton of spores or clubs or feet depending

1934
02:03:11,960 --> 02:03:16,600
on, you know, which camp you wanna
talk about as far as, you know,

1935
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:18,120
what the different, um,

1936
02:03:18,190 --> 02:03:22,800
sexual methods that this
fungi do to produce their

1937
02:03:23,040 --> 02:03:23,873
offspring.

1938
02:03:25,890 --> 02:03:30,200
So I want to ask you about
these different sources for, um,

1939
02:03:30,200 --> 02:03:33,200
these MyUM, these ver varieties
of fungals because we,

1940
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:36,640
we know we want them and we
know we want a, a as, you know,

1941
02:03:36,640 --> 02:03:41,600
as wide of variety as we can.
And we know that the, the,

1942
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:46,080
these, you know, using imo, indigenous
microorganisms, that's like a,

1943
02:03:46,370 --> 02:03:47,720
uh, that's a,

1944
02:03:47,950 --> 02:03:52,360
a simple low level version
that will evolve some fungals,

1945
02:03:52,360 --> 02:03:57,320
which is great. But then we're also
going to throw, uh, wood chips into our,

1946
02:03:57,540 --> 02:04:00,880
our pile because we want
to capture these hundreds,

1947
02:04:00,880 --> 02:04:05,480
if not thousands of varieties of
funes. I'm guessing though that, um,

1948
02:04:06,050 --> 02:04:10,680
we probably want to pull our
funes from a couple different

1949
02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:14,040
sources. So, uh, you know, uh, you know,

1950
02:04:14,040 --> 02:04:18,240
our IMO box is fantastic,
uh, our, our wood ships.

1951
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:19,200
That's fabulous.

1952
02:04:19,310 --> 02:04:23,960
What are a couple other
places that I want to hunt for

1953
02:04:24,110 --> 02:04:29,000
wild crafting these funes to bring it
back and put it in my pile so I can

1954
02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:31,720
have it be not only Fung dominant,

1955
02:04:32,020 --> 02:04:34,760
but hella diverse Fung dominant.

1956
02:04:35,180 --> 02:04:39,920
All right, so let's, let's clean
up, uh, the Achilles heel of imo.

1957
02:04:40,890 --> 02:04:43,520
So it is taught,

1958
02:04:43,620 --> 02:04:48,480
and most people understand or
believe that that IMO collection

1959
02:04:48,580 --> 02:04:53,480
IMO one is going to have all
of the fungal constituents that

1960
02:04:53,480 --> 02:04:58,400
you're looking for. It does not,
It only has the foundation yeast,

1961
02:04:58,400 --> 02:05:00,120
and yeah, it's probably got some spores,

1962
02:05:01,300 --> 02:05:06,120
but it's not nearly as diverse
as one would think. Uh,

1963
02:05:06,120 --> 02:05:10,720
generally you see the, the microscope
slides people post on Instagram,

1964
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:14,640
those are called pin molds.
Um, they're very important, uh,

1965
02:05:14,640 --> 02:05:17,760
foundational creatures
for succession to occur.

1966
02:05:18,330 --> 02:05:20,960
So you producing a shit ton of pin molds.

1967
02:05:21,420 --> 02:05:24,600
But when you introduce IMO three,

1968
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:28,640
which again is going to be, uh, uh,

1969
02:05:29,910 --> 02:05:32,200
very pin mold heavy,

1970
02:05:32,980 --> 02:05:36,680
and you introduce that into a IMO four,

1971
02:05:36,680 --> 02:05:38,720
which is when you blend it with soil,

1972
02:05:39,670 --> 02:05:43,640
that's when you're really gonna
get your fungal colonization.

1973
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:45,560
That's when you're gonna
get your SAP robes, your,

1974
02:05:45,560 --> 02:05:48,920
your more later succession
fungi to come into play,

1975
02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:50,880
because there's the food there for
him. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right?

1976
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:54,480
There's all those pin molds doing all
their thing that are providing the

1977
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:58,640
foundation or the paving the highway
for the SAP robes to come into play.

1978
02:05:59,530 --> 02:06:03,400
So if you're looking for, you know, um,

1979
02:06:03,830 --> 02:06:08,480
a slow version of, of getting
to a fungal dominance,

1980
02:06:08,550 --> 02:06:11,600
then yeah, that works
great. But the problem is,

1981
02:06:12,010 --> 02:06:15,680
if you don't have super healthy
soil to blend with your IMO three,

1982
02:06:16,870 --> 02:06:18,760
you're not gonna get this,

1983
02:06:18,760 --> 02:06:22,320
the kind of fung dominant
compost that you're,

1984
02:06:22,530 --> 02:06:26,800
or organic matter that you're
talking about. So, back to,

1985
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:30,920
how do I get this into my
low temp pile? All right.

1986
02:06:30,930 --> 02:06:32,400
So number one is,

1987
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:37,080
is finding the old one to two
year old punk wood ships with the

1988
02:06:37,150 --> 02:06:41,760
MyUM that is gonna have tremendous
diversity in it, because that cord,

1989
02:06:41,980 --> 02:06:45,640
the thicker the cords are, and the
more long and wey the cords are,

1990
02:06:45,640 --> 02:06:49,560
the more different organisms.
You're, you're getting SAP ropes. Um,

1991
02:06:50,420 --> 02:06:54,400
the other piece of this puzzle too
is foods like, what are fungal foods?

1992
02:06:54,840 --> 02:06:59,280
While we know, like steel cut oats,
um, there's a bunch of them, and you,

1993
02:06:59,280 --> 02:07:01,960
you can research this on your own. Um,

1994
02:07:02,060 --> 02:07:06,000
but the other wonderful place to get

1995
02:07:06,660 --> 02:07:09,880
SAP robes are from leaf stuff.

1996
02:07:10,690 --> 02:07:14,520
So I talk about, uh,
prevailing wind, right?

1997
02:07:14,610 --> 02:07:18,760
So everywhere you go, there's
generally what would consider, uh,

1998
02:07:19,000 --> 02:07:22,960
the winds direction the most days is
gonna be blowing in this direction.

1999
02:07:23,370 --> 02:07:28,360
So basically, you go to wherever,
um, there's a, a stone wall,

2000
02:07:28,510 --> 02:07:31,600
a down tree, a creek, or a depression,

2001
02:07:31,820 --> 02:07:36,120
and the leaves that blow across the
yard will fall in a natural pile,

2002
02:07:36,690 --> 02:07:41,080
um, either behind that log or,
you know, in that depression.

2003
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:45,360
There you go. There's
an incredibly diverse,

2004
02:07:46,290 --> 02:07:46,640
uh,

2005
02:07:46,640 --> 02:07:51,400
indigenous SAP fungi factory for you

2006
02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:56,360
to add to your compost. So again,
diversity, diversity, diversity leaves,

2007
02:07:56,520 --> 02:07:59,720
chips, uh, hay hay's, another good one,

2008
02:08:00,180 --> 02:08:04,720
Not hay straw straws is
already gonna have decomposers

2009
02:08:04,720 --> 02:08:07,680
attached to it. Um, and then, yeah,

2010
02:08:07,680 --> 02:08:11,520
if you can add some humic acids, um, they,

2011
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:14,960
they're also a very good,
again, biological superfood.

2012
02:08:14,960 --> 02:08:19,600
They're good for both bacterial and fungal
kingdoms. Um, then you're gonna have,

2013
02:08:19,770 --> 02:08:24,080
uh, incredible success. And then
there's one last piece of this puzzle.

2014
02:08:24,130 --> 02:08:28,440
If you're in a place where you don't
have access to these kinds of things,

2015
02:08:28,440 --> 02:08:28,880
you can,

2016
02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:33,520
you go to your local mushroom producer
and ask him for a spent mushroom block.

2017
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:38,000
You do not want mushroom compost
because mushroom compost has gone

2018
02:08:38,080 --> 02:08:41,800
theil and they've been forced
to kill all of the biology,

2019
02:08:42,330 --> 02:08:47,080
because that's what the U S D A requires
of anybody who's making commercial

2020
02:08:47,080 --> 02:08:49,320
compost has to hit that temperature.

2021
02:08:49,320 --> 02:08:53,240
Usually it's 1 53 times over
the course of X amount of days,

2022
02:08:53,240 --> 02:08:57,400
depending on what state you're in.
Um, so if you get mushroom compost,

2023
02:08:57,400 --> 02:08:59,480
you're getting, you're,
you're not getting organisms.

2024
02:08:59,480 --> 02:09:03,080
If you get the mushroom block,
now you're getting the organisms.

2025
02:09:03,780 --> 02:09:07,400
Wow, that's really cool. I have
access to many mushroom blocks,

2026
02:09:07,400 --> 02:09:10,520
which I will now go get. Um, so I wanna,

2027
02:09:10,520 --> 02:09:14,480
I wanna take this idea of wildcrafting
it. I wanna to kind of say,

2028
02:09:14,480 --> 02:09:18,440
I wanna apply what you just
said to my world, and, and,

2029
02:09:18,440 --> 02:09:22,360
and then everybody can kind of like do
that in their own heads for where they

2030
02:09:22,360 --> 02:09:24,520
live. So you're talking about, uh,

2031
02:09:24,520 --> 02:09:29,440
collecting these leaf collections
that have naturally come together,

2032
02:09:30,130 --> 02:09:35,000
um, you know, in indentations and along
tree lines and stuff like that. And so,

2033
02:09:35,290 --> 02:09:39,960
so if, if I'm wanting to do that kind
of collection in my neighborhood,

2034
02:09:40,460 --> 02:09:44,960
and so that I have got the
widest diversity of fungal

2035
02:09:45,530 --> 02:09:49,560
in my cold compost as possible,
for me, I would, for example,

2036
02:09:50,050 --> 02:09:52,640
my neighbor has got a long fence.

2037
02:09:53,420 --> 02:09:58,040
And so the leaves like we've all seen in
like, you know, suburban neighborhoods,

2038
02:09:58,040 --> 02:10:00,760
even though I live way out, um, the,

2039
02:10:00,760 --> 02:10:04,600
the leaves blow against the fence
and they collect at the bottom.

2040
02:10:05,220 --> 02:10:10,200
And so I can imagine going over there
with a five gallon bucket and just

2041
02:10:10,200 --> 02:10:11,080
like, like, you know,

2042
02:10:11,800 --> 02:10:16,280
smooshing all of these leaves together
and filling that bucket up. And so then,

2043
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:17,560
okay, great. I've got a,

2044
02:10:17,560 --> 02:10:22,280
I've got a collection from this particular
bio region along my neighbor's fence.

2045
02:10:22,570 --> 02:10:26,760
Um, I also have got this,
um, uh, huge ass, uh,

2046
02:10:26,760 --> 02:10:30,640
tree in my yard. And, um, because it, the,

2047
02:10:30,640 --> 02:10:35,280
the base of the tree kind of swells
up because of the old roots structure.

2048
02:10:35,370 --> 02:10:39,480
There's always a whole bunch of like,
magic like sitting in there too.

2049
02:10:39,630 --> 02:10:43,920
Plus as, as you've talked about
before, um, there's all of these,

2050
02:10:43,920 --> 02:10:48,280
these yeast, these IMOs that actually
kind of fall from these trees, these,

2051
02:10:48,280 --> 02:10:52,000
these fungal dusts that fall
from the trees. So, so, alright,

2052
02:10:52,030 --> 02:10:56,160
I will collect all of the leaves that
are at the bottom of the tree as well.

2053
02:10:56,160 --> 02:11:00,760
And I'm gonna get a little of this
little fur fur pit bits and, um, uh,

2054
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:05,640
f ir fur bits and uh, uh, and
some leaves and, you know,

2055
02:11:05,640 --> 02:11:10,160
I don't know, random
organic matter debris.

2056
02:11:10,160 --> 02:11:12,640
And so like, I'll fill a
bucket with that and then,

2057
02:11:12,660 --> 02:11:16,200
and then maybe I would go over to the, um,

2058
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:20,160
the estuary here on the island,
go over to like Fern cove. Um,

2059
02:11:20,160 --> 02:11:23,000
because there's all these
different leaves that, that, uh,

2060
02:11:23,000 --> 02:11:27,920
get collected in the brush that is
along the, along with salt water.

2061
02:11:27,930 --> 02:11:32,880
So, so maybe I'll get some salt
spray and like a different variety of

2062
02:11:32,950 --> 02:11:36,720
fungus is because that's a yet
another different environment. And,

2063
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:38,680
and I'm thinking to myself, I, I want to,

2064
02:11:38,680 --> 02:11:42,160
I want the environments to be different
because these different biological

2065
02:11:42,160 --> 02:11:44,000
environments are gonna
have different fungals.

2066
02:11:44,170 --> 02:11:47,960
So now I've got like these three buckets
full, and of course this could be,

2067
02:11:47,960 --> 02:11:50,320
you know, you could do as many as
you want, but for this example,

2068
02:11:50,320 --> 02:11:55,160
I got these three buckets and I'm
now gonna put those in the pile along

2069
02:11:55,160 --> 02:11:58,680
with my imo. And so
I've got, I've got the,

2070
02:11:58,980 --> 02:12:01,760
the very basic IMO yeasts,

2071
02:12:01,860 --> 02:12:06,600
and I've got the way more complex
funes from three different

2072
02:12:06,600 --> 02:12:11,120
areas near where I live. Plus
I've got all this higher end Cool.

2073
02:12:11,330 --> 02:12:13,040
My cel um,

2074
02:12:13,230 --> 02:12:17,120
action going on and all the
hangers on that you mentioned.

2075
02:12:17,340 --> 02:12:21,960
And so boom, is, is that by ideal?

2076
02:12:22,580 --> 02:12:26,720
Yes. Um, just a couple little points.
So, um, when you're collecting,

2077
02:12:27,410 --> 02:12:32,400
um, leaf duff, you really wanna
scrape back the dry leaves on the top,

2078
02:12:32,660 --> 02:12:36,680
and you want to get down into the
layer where they're kind of slimy.

2079
02:12:37,570 --> 02:12:41,880
Um, that's where the magic is not in
the, in the top layer that's dried out.

2080
02:12:41,980 --> 02:12:46,760
The top layer that's dried out will
then get covered by this year's crop

2081
02:12:46,760 --> 02:12:51,680
of leaves, and that'll pressed out
and then become the wet, nasty, slimy,

2082
02:12:52,330 --> 02:12:57,120
um, underneath for, for the
following season. So you're, again,

2083
02:12:57,120 --> 02:13:01,400
you're, you're looking to get partially
decomposed, naturally decomposed,

2084
02:13:02,050 --> 02:13:02,400
um,

2085
02:13:02,400 --> 02:13:07,400
organic matter in the form of leaves
that have started to break down.

2086
02:13:07,900 --> 02:13:09,920
And I always encourage people to,

2087
02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:15,840
maybe this is the perfect place
to use that commercial compost for

2088
02:13:15,840 --> 02:13:17,080
six bucks, is,

2089
02:13:17,080 --> 02:13:21,680
is to wildcraft responsibly and
bring something in and leave that

2090
02:13:22,090 --> 02:13:26,480
in place of what you've taken out. Um,
so that way if you spread, you know,

2091
02:13:26,480 --> 02:13:30,640
you've, you've taken out say, six
feet of, of this, uh, you know,

2092
02:13:30,780 --> 02:13:34,400
top inch or two of this leaf mold, um,

2093
02:13:34,400 --> 02:13:38,280
you can then spread that
commercial compost down and
then cover it back up with

2094
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:40,120
the, with the dried out leaves.

2095
02:13:40,120 --> 02:13:44,760
And you've not just totally disturbed
or fucked nature by leaving a big

2096
02:13:44,760 --> 02:13:45,210
scar.

2097
02:13:45,210 --> 02:13:45,920
Oh, I love that.

2098
02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:49,240
And we've already talked about how while
it might not really work well for a

2099
02:13:49,240 --> 02:13:53,440
compost, it actually works great as
a fertilizer. And so, and so we are,

2100
02:13:53,440 --> 02:13:57,280
we are helping diversify that area.
Right on. Yeah. Wow. All right.

2101
02:13:57,390 --> 02:13:57,880
Cool.

2102
02:13:57,880 --> 02:14:02,720
And then one other piece for mushroom
blocks is that people have to

2103
02:14:02,720 --> 02:14:07,520
understand that when they take that
mushroom block, um, and they leave it,

2104
02:14:07,630 --> 02:14:12,400
it's gonna get this, uh,
liquid slimy stuff in the bag.

2105
02:14:13,050 --> 02:14:13,400
Um,

2106
02:14:13,400 --> 02:14:18,120
that's actually a bio side
that's produced by the fungi to

2107
02:14:18,120 --> 02:14:23,040
protect from bacterial infections and or
yeast infections or anything else, um,

2108
02:14:23,040 --> 02:14:25,560
that fungi is doing
everything it's can to,

2109
02:14:25,650 --> 02:14:30,360
to build a fortress with the
white cake around the outside

2110
02:14:30,480 --> 02:14:33,360
edge, but it's also releasing these, uh,

2111
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:38,280
biotoxins to fight off anybody that
could possibly compete with them.

2112
02:14:38,770 --> 02:14:43,560
So what I generally tell people
to do is take the bag and

2113
02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:47,720
run it over with your car
on soil so you smashed it,

2114
02:14:48,100 --> 02:14:52,200
and then just leave it in
the bag so it gets nasty.

2115
02:14:52,370 --> 02:14:55,080
It should get all
different colors in it, um,

2116
02:14:55,080 --> 02:14:58,480
but it shouldn't have any
real liquid buildup. Um,

2117
02:14:58,480 --> 02:15:02,320
because that's the bio side that you
do not want to add to your compost bio

2118
02:15:02,320 --> 02:15:04,240
because you will knock
back your diversity.

2119
02:15:04,890 --> 02:15:08,920
So the dealing with mushroom
blocks is a little bit more, um,

2120
02:15:09,320 --> 02:15:11,600
creative than than one might think,

2121
02:15:11,900 --> 02:15:16,800
but the longer you let those blocks
dry out, um, and if it's raining,

2122
02:15:16,800 --> 02:15:18,200
it's raining, doesn't matter. Just,

2123
02:15:18,200 --> 02:15:22,080
just don't allow that bio
side to build up in the bag,

2124
02:15:23,060 --> 02:15:27,400
run it over, you know, you don't
wanna rip all the plastic off leave,

2125
02:15:27,400 --> 02:15:32,040
leave the plastic on it until you're
ready to actually introduce it into your

2126
02:15:32,040 --> 02:15:35,880
compost pile. And then when you're going
to introduce it into your compost pile,

2127
02:15:36,150 --> 02:15:39,800
it's gonna have this funky smell
to it. And again, remember,

2128
02:15:39,800 --> 02:15:44,360
our noses are there to protect
us, to warn us from dangers. Um,

2129
02:15:44,360 --> 02:15:47,400
so when you smell it, you're gonna kind
of like pull your head back and go, Oh,

2130
02:15:47,400 --> 02:15:50,680
that smells really
funky. Yeah, that's okay.

2131
02:15:50,680 --> 02:15:54,040
It's kind of like when you
ferment things, it smells funky,

2132
02:15:54,040 --> 02:15:56,280
like you're not gonna
want to eat this stuff.

2133
02:15:56,540 --> 02:16:00,720
But when it has that funky smell to it,
you know, it's ready, it, it's going to,

2134
02:16:01,250 --> 02:16:03,720
um, be providing all kinds of secondary,

2135
02:16:03,960 --> 02:16:06,560
tertiary metabolytes for
everything to kick in.

2136
02:16:07,100 --> 02:16:11,040
The only part of that I want to tease at
is that running over it with your car,

2137
02:16:11,270 --> 02:16:13,400
I, I, I believe that the car is the,

2138
02:16:13,400 --> 02:16:18,000
on our goal is to break up the cake

2139
02:16:18,330 --> 02:16:19,440
so that the,

2140
02:16:19,460 --> 02:16:24,400
the white on the outside that is pr
providing the protective barrier for the

2141
02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:29,080
cake, um, gets destroyed. Right?
Like that disturbed disturbed,

2142
02:16:29,400 --> 02:16:30,210
okay. So,

2143
02:16:30,210 --> 02:16:35,120
so like the cakes that I have come
in contact with actually break

2144
02:16:35,120 --> 02:16:38,720
up very easily in the
bag by hand. And so it,

2145
02:16:38,720 --> 02:16:43,120
it would be just as effective if I just
take the bag and I hold it, you know,

2146
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:45,120
well with my two hands and just, you know,

2147
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:47,280
twist my hands in different directions.

2148
02:16:47,820 --> 02:16:52,800
And so break the exterior of the cake
up a bit and then just go with that,

2149
02:16:52,800 --> 02:16:56,040
right? There's there, that's,
that's the only goal of it, right?

2150
02:16:56,730 --> 02:17:01,000
Uh, there is something to do
with, with the pressure. I,

2151
02:17:01,510 --> 02:17:05,240
I can't explain it biochemical
process that that's occurring,

2152
02:17:05,240 --> 02:17:10,080
but I have noticed that
when I do run it over,

2153
02:17:10,330 --> 02:17:12,960
uh, again, I'm not, I'm
not trying to break it up,

2154
02:17:12,960 --> 02:17:17,760
I'm trying to just kind of like squish
out any of the bio side and disturb

2155
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:18,120
that,

2156
02:17:18,120 --> 02:17:23,000
that outer coding so that now
the local indigenous biology can

2157
02:17:23,000 --> 02:17:25,000
come into play and have
fun with it as well.

2158
02:17:25,000 --> 02:17:29,160
Cause there's still a tremendous
amount of resources, uh, in,

2159
02:17:29,160 --> 02:17:34,000
in nutritional value that's li
blocked up in that block, um, that,

2160
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:36,440
that fungi is trying
to protect. So I wanna,

2161
02:17:36,790 --> 02:17:39,960
I wanna expose it to my local environment,

2162
02:17:39,960 --> 02:17:44,080
so I'm getting all of my indigenous
microorganisms to colonize it as well.

2163
02:17:44,170 --> 02:17:48,840
So that's why I'm saying like,
just run it over. Uh, again,

2164
02:17:48,840 --> 02:17:51,400
you don't want to tear the
bag off of it. You just wanna,

2165
02:17:51,540 --> 02:17:55,000
you just wanna like pop it
so that, you know, again,

2166
02:17:55,060 --> 02:17:59,160
air exchange can come in, the
bio side gets squished out, um,

2167
02:17:59,160 --> 02:18:02,880
and then let it sit and get funky.
Man. The more funky it gets,

2168
02:18:02,880 --> 02:18:06,400
the more diverse, um, of, of in, uh,

2169
02:18:08,140 --> 02:18:12,920
the more diverse of microorganisms
that you'll get from your micro

2170
02:18:12,920 --> 02:18:14,680
environment. Does that make sense?

2171
02:18:14,680 --> 02:18:16,480
Yeah, I totally follow. All right.

2172
02:18:16,490 --> 02:18:19,360
So we're gonna go ahead
and take another break. Um,

2173
02:18:19,360 --> 02:18:23,600
and then we're gonna finish up with
set three. We are gonna talk, um, uh,

2174
02:18:23,600 --> 02:18:27,800
more about the, the
mechanical massaging, um,

2175
02:18:27,870 --> 02:18:31,560
that Layton does, uh, to create these, uh,

2176
02:18:31,560 --> 02:18:36,520
community opportunities in the
inoculate, um, organic material.

2177
02:18:36,860 --> 02:18:40,480
And then we're gonna talk a little
bit about how to actually, um,

2178
02:18:40,850 --> 02:18:45,200
to use this in your garden. Um,
you are listening to Shaping Fire,

2179
02:18:45,340 --> 02:18:48,560
and my guest today is Soil
biologist Layton Morrison.

2180
02:18:52,130 --> 02:18:52,710
For decades,

2181
02:18:52,710 --> 02:18:56,950
Americans have enjoyed cannabis
flowers and joints and bongs and bowls.

2182
02:18:57,330 --> 02:19:01,150
And now with the normalization of cannabis
use increasing across the country,

2183
02:19:01,520 --> 02:19:06,070
we have the opportunity to enjoy smoking
cannabis luxuries that simply were not

2184
02:19:06,070 --> 02:19:10,350
attainable. Before North
Coast hand rolls, blunts,

2185
02:19:10,480 --> 02:19:12,030
cannons, rosn,

2186
02:19:12,030 --> 02:19:16,950
infuse donuts and cigars available
in the state of Michigan North Coast

2187
02:19:17,200 --> 02:19:21,990
focuses on flavor over everything else
instead of growing their own flower.

2188
02:19:22,110 --> 02:19:26,390
North Coast goes out into the cultivation
community and creates relationships

2189
02:19:26,390 --> 02:19:26,920
with the best,

2190
02:19:26,920 --> 02:19:30,520
best growers working with the best
new cannabis varieties available.

2191
02:19:31,150 --> 02:19:33,520
Surely heavy THC is a factor,

2192
02:19:33,780 --> 02:19:38,440
but North Coast focuses on
aroma complex terpene profiles

2193
02:19:38,500 --> 02:19:42,200
and taste that continues throughout
the entire smoking experience.

2194
02:19:42,780 --> 02:19:46,600
The North Coast team curates
flowers, like others, curate art.

2195
02:19:46,710 --> 02:19:49,680
They seek out the best
talent, build relationships,

2196
02:19:49,720 --> 02:19:52,160
helps them take their product
to the highest levels,

2197
02:19:52,340 --> 02:19:57,120
and then buys their well cured flowers
in order to hand roll them just for you.

2198
02:19:57,670 --> 02:19:59,680
I really like their hand blown glass tips.

2199
02:20:00,380 --> 02:20:04,960
And North Coast has branched out
beyond can gars into Rosn Solventless,

2200
02:20:05,110 --> 02:20:09,480
THCA Diamonds, and exceptional
hash rosn carts for on the Go.

2201
02:20:09,760 --> 02:20:14,560
Cannabis connoisseurs too North Coast
provides you with attainable luxury,

2202
02:20:14,790 --> 02:20:18,840
offering you an ultra premium smoking
experience at a price that seems

2203
02:20:18,840 --> 02:20:20,640
reasonable and repeatable.

2204
02:20:21,450 --> 02:20:24,960
To find out more about North
Coast line of cannabis products,

2205
02:20:25,040 --> 02:20:28,400
visit their Instagram at
North Coast dot rolling.

2206
02:20:28,830 --> 02:20:32,560
That's North Coast Dot
rolling. And when in Michigan,

2207
02:20:32,860 --> 02:20:36,480
Ask for North Coast at your
favorite shop North Coast.

2208
02:20:39,630 --> 02:20:43,550
There is no doubt that auto flowering
cannabis plants have finally come into

2209
02:20:43,550 --> 02:20:46,350
their own. And Night. Owl
Seeds works tirelessly,

2210
02:20:46,350 --> 02:20:49,990
bringing you AutoFlow genetics
that are reliable, thriving,

2211
02:20:49,990 --> 02:20:52,150
and with extraordinary terpene profiles.

2212
02:20:52,550 --> 02:20:56,390
Night Owl Seeds is an industry leader
because of the focus work of their

2213
02:20:56,390 --> 02:20:56,660
founder.

2214
02:20:56,660 --> 02:21:01,430
Daaz Daaz is passionate about the cannabis
plant and pushing what AutoFlow can

2215
02:21:01,430 --> 02:21:01,650
do.

2216
02:21:01,650 --> 02:21:06,390
And cultivators know that these efforts
show through in his seeds and night Owl

2217
02:21:06,390 --> 02:21:07,830
seeds really are extraordinary.

2218
02:21:07,940 --> 02:21:11,510
Just take a look at the thousands
of photos and buy fans on Instagram.

2219
02:21:11,530 --> 02:21:12,590
The proof is there,

2220
02:21:12,590 --> 02:21:17,070
and obvious terpenes are complex
and rich plants have vigor.

2221
02:21:17,480 --> 02:21:20,030
If you are a fan of
Mao genetics like I am,

2222
02:21:20,030 --> 02:21:22,270
you'll likely also love Night Owl Seeds.

2223
02:21:22,390 --> 02:21:26,910
Night Owl founder Daaz worked with Mitch
Mao to build the MAO brand for years,

2224
02:21:26,910 --> 02:21:28,910
including breeding Maos,

2225
02:21:28,910 --> 02:21:32,150
much loved sour stomper
and cosmic queen cultivars.

2226
02:21:32,770 --> 02:21:37,550
I'm growing both night Owl and Mao
this year because I want the best And

2227
02:21:37,550 --> 02:21:40,230
Night Owl Seeds knows how
to cultivate community too.

2228
02:21:40,640 --> 02:21:42,190
DA puts out great stickers,

2229
02:21:42,270 --> 02:21:46,110
exclusive packaging for limited
runs and desirable freebies.

2230
02:21:46,400 --> 02:21:49,150
He really draws you in. If
you love creative branding,

2231
02:21:49,590 --> 02:21:53,430
Night Owl even has the
Secret Owl Society Text Club.

2232
02:21:53,740 --> 02:21:55,590
Just text the word night owl,

2233
02:21:55,690 --> 02:22:00,550
one word to 7 6 0 6 7 0 3 1 3 oh

2234
02:22:00,610 --> 02:22:04,390
for early announcements and
exclusive opportunities. Of course,

2235
02:22:04,390 --> 02:22:08,350
you can see lots of photos and find out
about upcoming drops by following the

2236
02:22:08,350 --> 02:22:13,070
Night Owl Seeds Instagram
too at daaz dot Night Owl,

2237
02:22:13,260 --> 02:22:16,310
that's d az dot Night Owl.

2238
02:22:16,730 --> 02:22:19,950
You can get your packs of Night
Owl seeds at several distributors,

2239
02:22:19,950 --> 02:22:24,550
including DC Seed Exchange
Insane Seeds, and he Genetics.

2240
02:22:24,660 --> 02:22:29,240
That's Night Owl Seeds. There's a
difference because we're different.

2241
02:22:32,110 --> 02:22:36,050
For years, organic cultivators have been
looking for a Pete Moss replacement.

2242
02:22:36,160 --> 02:22:40,370
Pete Moss has long been the go-to
soil amendment for water retention and

2243
02:22:40,370 --> 02:22:41,170
container growing.

2244
02:22:41,170 --> 02:22:45,850
But organic growers are recognizing
now that Pete Moss is an unsustainable

2245
02:22:46,370 --> 02:22:51,370
resource and the mining of Pete Bogs
destroys wetland habitats and releases

2246
02:22:51,370 --> 02:22:52,330
sequestered carbon.

2247
02:22:52,830 --> 02:22:56,570
But Pete Moss works so well that
many have continued to use it.

2248
02:22:57,110 --> 02:23:01,850
Now there is finally a revolutionary
replacement for Pete Moss that provides

2249
02:23:01,850 --> 02:23:04,730
better benefits while
being a sustainable choice.

2250
02:23:05,510 --> 02:23:08,690
Pit Moss sounds and acts like Pete Moss,

2251
02:23:08,830 --> 02:23:13,410
but instead of being mined from Fragile
Ecosystems is actually made from

2252
02:23:13,410 --> 02:23:17,090
upcycled organic paper and
cardboard headed for landfills.

2253
02:23:17,550 --> 02:23:22,050
Pit moss is excellent at retaining
water in your substrate and creating air

2254
02:23:22,050 --> 02:23:24,810
pockets and tiny living
environments for microbes.

2255
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Pit moss instantly increases aeration
nutrient absorption and water

2256
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conservation too carefully and
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2257
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of decades long research into
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2258
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Pit moss is lightweight and easy to use,

2259
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and pit moss is in earth so it won't
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2260
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of preparations,

2261
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including a nutrient enhanced blend
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2262
02:23:51,930 --> 02:23:56,410
added nutrients. Pit moss is also
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2263
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chickens, and small animals.

2264
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2266
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2267
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2268
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Growing healthier, stronger, more
sustainable plants. Pit moss,

2269
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welcome back. You are listening to
Shaping Fire. I am your host Shangle Lo,

2270
02:24:25,550 --> 02:24:28,690
and my guest today is Soil
Biologist Layton Morrison.

2271
02:24:29,900 --> 02:24:34,810
So bef during the break late and I were
talking about, uh, the inputs that,

2272
02:24:34,810 --> 02:24:39,250
uh, for this cold compost,
um, because when I, uh,

2273
02:24:39,250 --> 02:24:42,410
visited him there in
Ventura, uh, I don't know,

2274
02:24:42,530 --> 02:24:46,290
right before Covid started, um,

2275
02:24:46,700 --> 02:24:49,770
he had all this stuff in his backyard
that he was growing, all looked like,

2276
02:24:49,770 --> 02:24:52,890
like weeds and shrubs and stuff. And
I'm all like, Oh, what, what, you know,

2277
02:24:52,890 --> 02:24:54,210
what are these plants?
And you're like, Oh,

2278
02:24:54,210 --> 02:24:57,090
I'm growing this stuff for my compost and
I didn't think much about it and moved

2279
02:24:57,090 --> 02:25:01,450
on. Um, but it's not until
today that I realized, um,

2280
02:25:01,780 --> 02:25:06,530
whereas most of us will wild craft
our inputs for the compost or,

2281
02:25:06,530 --> 02:25:10,370
or we just produce it like,
you know, um, you know,

2282
02:25:10,370 --> 02:25:14,490
air quotes accidentally on
our property. Um, Layton,

2283
02:25:14,490 --> 02:25:16,850
you actually are growing, um,

2284
02:25:17,610 --> 02:25:22,050
green inputs that you know you like

2285
02:25:22,470 --> 02:25:26,040
for making your cold
compost. And the idea of,

2286
02:25:26,330 --> 02:25:30,640
of growing specific things
intentionally just to,

2287
02:25:31,010 --> 02:25:34,440
to kill it for your compost is
really interesting. And, and,

2288
02:25:34,440 --> 02:25:37,400
and I found it kind of inspiring
and I'm probably not the only one,

2289
02:25:37,400 --> 02:25:41,920
so be before we like move on. Um, why
don't, why don't you just hit on that?

2290
02:25:41,920 --> 02:25:46,160
Like, like what, what are you
growing for your compost and,

2291
02:25:46,160 --> 02:25:47,000
and why do you bother.

2292
02:25:47,920 --> 02:25:52,760
<Laugh>? Well, that's a
good question. Um, Chango,

2293
02:25:52,760 --> 02:25:57,360
uh, I've found that again,
diversity, diversity,

2294
02:25:57,360 --> 02:26:02,160
diversity, um, is the key to
making some incredible, uh,

2295
02:26:02,240 --> 02:26:06,960
end products. And so, um,
yeah, I grow, uh, indigenous,

2296
02:26:07,370 --> 02:26:11,360
uh, grasses, pollinator
plants, um, flowers,

2297
02:26:12,330 --> 02:26:16,920
uh, even even some little shrubs.
And, and basically I don't kill them,

2298
02:26:17,030 --> 02:26:20,600
I just cut them back, uh,
from time to time. Um,

2299
02:26:20,600 --> 02:26:24,040
I don't let things go to seed
that I put into the pile.

2300
02:26:24,090 --> 02:26:28,640
So if I see something that's gonna seed
out, I either just let it seed out, um,

2301
02:26:28,640 --> 02:26:33,280
and then wait till it's done seeding and
then take the brown cuz the plant dies

2302
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:34,920
after it seeds out. Um,

2303
02:26:34,920 --> 02:26:37,960
and just make sure that I'm getting all
the seeds off of it and leave them in

2304
02:26:37,960 --> 02:26:41,040
place in the soil. Um, and
then the greens, of course,

2305
02:26:41,040 --> 02:26:45,680
I I trim back the grasses. I love
flowers in my compost pile. Um,

2306
02:26:45,680 --> 02:26:50,160
I think they just bring a whole
nother level of, um, biological, uh,

2307
02:26:50,160 --> 02:26:55,040
super foods to, to the decomposers
that they wouldn't ordinarily get. Um,

2308
02:26:55,040 --> 02:26:58,480
so yeah, I think that everybody, if
you got a little corner somewhere,

2309
02:26:58,480 --> 02:27:03,280
you can obviously just buy
green manure seeds or wildflower

2310
02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:07,120
seeds or whatever, whatever's
locally grown or, uh,

2311
02:27:07,330 --> 02:27:11,880
locally responsibly grown in
your area. Why wouldn't you?

2312
02:27:11,880 --> 02:27:16,280
And again, you know, I'm, I'm
blessed. I don't go through a, uh,

2313
02:27:16,280 --> 02:27:20,640
a harsh winter here. Um, yes, we have
certain plants that do die back in,

2314
02:27:20,640 --> 02:27:23,040
in the colder weather,
but for the most part,

2315
02:27:23,040 --> 02:27:27,680
everything pretty much grows year round.
So I'm very blessed in that regard.

2316
02:27:27,680 --> 02:27:31,520
But if I was to say do
this in New England,

2317
02:27:32,370 --> 02:27:36,120
um, I typically would build a pile in
spring and I'd build a pile and fall.

2318
02:27:36,690 --> 02:27:39,640
So I'd be harvesting, um, you know, the,

2319
02:27:39,740 --> 02:27:43,080
the whatever I could get
my hands on in the spring,

2320
02:27:43,080 --> 02:27:45,960
like the new stuff that
was popping up. Um,

2321
02:27:45,960 --> 02:27:50,080
and then in the fall I would
obviously be collecting stuff, uh,

2322
02:27:50,080 --> 02:27:53,400
throughout the summer to, to build
the pile in the pile in the fall.

2323
02:27:53,730 --> 02:27:57,800
So it's a little bit trickier in, in an
area where you have a true hard winner,

2324
02:27:58,250 --> 02:28:02,240
um, to do this. But even if
you only built one pile a year,

2325
02:28:02,480 --> 02:28:06,520
you'd be fine. Um, but you, yeah,
there's no reason why you can't harvest.

2326
02:28:07,410 --> 02:28:12,360
Um, the, the local, you know,
or grow. Whatever you feel is,

2327
02:28:12,370 --> 02:28:14,640
is important for your area. Um,

2328
02:28:14,640 --> 02:28:16,760
and then you use the biomass
in your compost pile.

2329
02:28:16,910 --> 02:28:19,720
I like the idea cause you kind of put
it on its head, right? Cause like,

2330
02:28:19,720 --> 02:28:20,920
I take this stuff, you know, I,

2331
02:28:20,960 --> 02:28:23,840
I grow flowers and all this kind of
stuff on my property too, and I just,

2332
02:28:23,840 --> 02:28:26,040
they naturally find their way into a pile.

2333
02:28:26,040 --> 02:28:30,000
But the fact that you kind of went
backwards and you're like, Okay,

2334
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:33,680
what stuff do I like in my compost that,

2335
02:28:34,260 --> 02:28:38,360
and now I'm gonna grow that like,
um, it's, it's a d it's, it's,

2336
02:28:38,360 --> 02:28:42,280
it's a subtle but important
difference from, Oh, I,

2337
02:28:42,280 --> 02:28:46,480
I grew all of this stuff because I just
like the flowers and I hope it makes

2338
02:28:46,480 --> 02:28:50,000
good compost. Versus I want good composts,

2339
02:28:50,000 --> 02:28:54,280
so I'm gonna pick the flowers and
grasses that make good compost.

2340
02:28:54,310 --> 02:28:57,680
That also I happen to
like, it's like it's, it,

2341
02:28:57,680 --> 02:29:01,640
it changes the direction of the
decision making and I find that, uh,

2342
02:29:01,640 --> 02:29:02,480
kind of delightful.

2343
02:29:03,070 --> 02:29:05,680
Yeah, and, and don't get me wrong, I mean,

2344
02:29:05,680 --> 02:29:09,320
I'll actually like pull up roots and
use those in the compost as well.

2345
02:29:09,770 --> 02:29:13,480
So if something seeds, I'll let it
seed out and then I'll pull that plant,

2346
02:29:13,480 --> 02:29:17,080
cuz I know I've got seeds that are
gonna happen pop next year and I'll,

2347
02:29:17,080 --> 02:29:20,440
I'll compost that root ball
because that's got the rises in it.

2348
02:29:21,240 --> 02:29:25,280
Right on. So, alright, so here we
are in set three. And, um, the,

2349
02:29:25,280 --> 02:29:29,280
the two main things I want to talk
about is first, um, uh, you know,

2350
02:29:29,340 --> 02:29:33,560
you have talked about the mechanical
ways in which you manipulate the organic

2351
02:29:33,560 --> 02:29:38,480
matter to make more porous
community opportunities for all the

2352
02:29:38,480 --> 02:29:42,080
life forms in the R iOS
sphere. And, um, you know,

2353
02:29:42,640 --> 02:29:45,640
we've kind of just hit on that a little
bit and then I've referred to it as

2354
02:29:45,640 --> 02:29:46,840
massaging, but like,

2355
02:29:46,840 --> 02:29:51,760
I've been to your workshop and
seen all the stuff that you

2356
02:29:51,760 --> 02:29:56,080
do and, and I think so far we've
given everybody a pretty good,

2357
02:29:56,850 --> 02:29:57,490
um,

2358
02:29:57,490 --> 02:30:02,440
roadmap for how to make this
at at their house except for

2359
02:30:02,750 --> 02:30:05,640
this part. So would you, um,

2360
02:30:05,870 --> 02:30:09,880
take us through the different mechanical

2361
02:30:10,180 --> 02:30:14,680
manipulations that you work
the organic matter through

2362
02:30:15,090 --> 02:30:18,960
so that it is optimum
for an inoculate, um,

2363
02:30:19,870 --> 02:30:20,703
process?

2364
02:30:21,210 --> 02:30:25,500
Yeah, sure. As a matter of fact,
I recently did a, uh, a video,

2365
02:30:25,810 --> 02:30:30,380
a one hour lecture and, uh, an
outline with a friend of mine, um,

2366
02:30:30,380 --> 02:30:34,180
Jimmy Perkins, um, who's actually
gonna put it up online at some point.

2367
02:30:34,180 --> 02:30:37,460
And we talked about charging
50 bucks for it. Um,

2368
02:30:37,460 --> 02:30:41,860
but it would be a great resource for
people, um, to actually physically see it,

2369
02:30:41,860 --> 02:30:46,060
what I'm talking about and how
I go about it. Um, so that's,

2370
02:30:46,060 --> 02:30:50,540
that's something that it was designed
for, uh, the homeowner. So it's,

2371
02:30:50,540 --> 02:30:55,340
it's using mechanical forces on a
smaller scale than what I do. Um,

2372
02:30:55,340 --> 02:31:00,220
but needless to say, these
mechanical forces are scalable.

2373
02:31:00,550 --> 02:31:05,340
Um, so I have a 85 gallon
compost, or excuse me,

2374
02:31:05,340 --> 02:31:09,740
um, um, yogurt maker
that I converted into,

2375
02:31:10,030 --> 02:31:14,740
uh, one of my strippers. Um, and
actually I call her Roque <laugh>

2376
02:31:15,720 --> 02:31:18,940
And my other stripper, I call
her Sandy because, uh, I went,

2377
02:31:19,000 --> 02:31:22,760
went through super storm Sandy and
Sandy Hook in New England, and I said,

2378
02:31:22,760 --> 02:31:25,480
You know what? Poor Sandy's
got a bad name. Let's,

2379
02:31:25,480 --> 02:31:27,920
let's make something good
out of the name Sandy.

2380
02:31:28,090 --> 02:31:31,120
So the one that I travel
with is, is Sandy.

2381
02:31:31,120 --> 02:31:35,280
And it was basically a older
washing machine that I converted,

2382
02:31:36,170 --> 02:31:39,880
um, to do this, uh, what
I call soft collision.

2383
02:31:40,770 --> 02:31:45,480
So in a soft collision, think about,
uh, the two of us standing in a pool,

2384
02:31:45,850 --> 02:31:50,080
um, you know, up to our neck in
water and underwater, I punch you.

2385
02:31:50,310 --> 02:31:53,320
Like you're gonna feel it, you're
gonna feel the force of it,

2386
02:31:53,320 --> 02:31:57,720
but it's not gonna hurt you. Like if we
were standing in the air and I did that,

2387
02:31:57,720 --> 02:32:00,080
you, you, you'd feel some serious pain.

2388
02:32:00,810 --> 02:32:05,480
So that's the kind of philosophy that
I want you to think about when you are

2389
02:32:05,480 --> 02:32:09,200
talking about soft colliding, um,

2390
02:32:09,200 --> 02:32:14,040
organic materials or
matters together in a way

2391
02:32:14,040 --> 02:32:18,600
that you're brushing off
the, the blue pieces, uh,

2392
02:32:18,680 --> 02:32:22,520
the fungi, the, the, the biology. Um,

2393
02:32:22,520 --> 02:32:24,320
you're not damaging it, you're,

2394
02:32:24,320 --> 02:32:28,920
you're basically using
its own bio mass to,

2395
02:32:29,330 --> 02:32:33,920
to break off the pieces that, um,
are suitable and ready to be used,

2396
02:32:34,490 --> 02:32:37,680
um, as poem, um, to inoculate your soil.

2397
02:32:39,120 --> 02:32:43,340
All right. So number one is soft
colliding using a washing machine.

2398
02:32:43,340 --> 02:32:47,540
Would you give a quick description of,
of your retrofit of that washing machine?

2399
02:32:48,010 --> 02:32:51,980
Yeah. Um, you have to find
a really old machine. Um,

2400
02:32:51,980 --> 02:32:54,100
the newer ones have, um,

2401
02:32:54,130 --> 02:32:58,420
a lot of different sensors and
computers thanks to China, um,

2402
02:32:58,420 --> 02:33:02,260
which I've tried
desperately to convert, uh,

2403
02:33:02,550 --> 02:33:03,620
to many,

2404
02:33:03,620 --> 02:33:07,420
many lost hours and frustration because
as soon as I get rid of this control,

2405
02:33:07,810 --> 02:33:12,620
that sensor is tripping, and now
the machine won't go on, or, or, I,

2406
02:33:12,620 --> 02:33:16,500
I keep this control, but I get rid of
that sensor because I don't want it.

2407
02:33:16,800 --> 02:33:20,420
And then now this control will
no longer function properly.

2408
02:33:20,910 --> 02:33:24,060
So you have to find a very,
uh, old machine. Like,

2409
02:33:24,530 --> 02:33:28,780
I don't think you can get 'em
anything after two thousands,

2410
02:33:28,780 --> 02:33:33,020
you're probably not gonna be able
to convert. Um, so that being said,

2411
02:33:33,030 --> 02:33:37,460
there's not a huge pool of these pieces
of equipment that have survived, uh,

2412
02:33:37,460 --> 02:33:42,060
that long in a junk pile. So
it's, it's not a particular easy,

2413
02:33:42,430 --> 02:33:45,540
um, way to go about this. I mean, I did,

2414
02:33:45,650 --> 02:33:48,420
I did this conversion back, uh,

2415
02:33:48,420 --> 02:33:52,860
in about 2010 was when I made it. Um,

2416
02:33:52,860 --> 02:33:57,460
but I had access to, you know,
used appliance stores that were,

2417
02:33:57,640 --> 02:34:02,460
you know, it had plenty of older
inventory that I could manipulate.

2418
02:34:02,950 --> 02:34:06,140
Um, so bottom line is, you
know, you, you have to gut it.

2419
02:34:06,150 --> 02:34:09,500
So you have to take the whole
thing apart, power wash the inside,

2420
02:34:09,500 --> 02:34:13,020
get rid of all the residues,
all the soap, sc, um,

2421
02:34:13,020 --> 02:34:17,520
you gotta replace bearings,
um, you know, check for, uh,

2422
02:34:17,710 --> 02:34:21,480
wire phrase. Um, but you're
basically looking at,

2423
02:34:22,180 --> 02:34:24,800
you know, taking all of
the wiring out of it.

2424
02:34:25,050 --> 02:34:29,080
So you basically have two
functions, spin and agitate,

2425
02:34:29,080 --> 02:34:32,200
and no time restriction, like
all those little control that,

2426
02:34:32,200 --> 02:34:35,600
that little dial you bypass
that whole thing. So it,

2427
02:34:35,950 --> 02:34:39,320
it's not something for the lighthearted,
you've gotta be somewhat of a,

2428
02:34:39,550 --> 02:34:44,160
a mechanical or high mechanical aptitude
and somewhat of an inventor to actually

2429
02:34:44,160 --> 02:34:47,600
do this. Um, but it's possible
if I did it, anybody can do it.

2430
02:34:48,330 --> 02:34:52,840
So that being said, um,
the, the more simple way,

2431
02:34:53,170 --> 02:34:54,960
uh, for, uh,

2432
02:34:54,960 --> 02:34:59,920
a user friendly small scale application
is to just use a paint mixer or

2433
02:34:59,920 --> 02:35:03,960
a compound mixer, um, and a
cordless drill on a low setting.

2434
02:35:03,960 --> 02:35:08,280
And that's where I did this video with,
with Jimmy, so that, uh, you know,

2435
02:35:08,280 --> 02:35:12,480
people could see, Oh, wow, this is
really actually quite simple. Um,

2436
02:35:12,940 --> 02:35:15,920
and in, in my work, I've,

2437
02:35:15,920 --> 02:35:20,120
I've taken a little bit further because
I'm really trying to produce the most

2438
02:35:20,400 --> 02:35:23,600
powerful inoculant I
can. So I also use, um,

2439
02:35:24,080 --> 02:35:29,080
along with agitation, I use
aeration. So I, I have a,

2440
02:35:29,370 --> 02:35:31,040
uh, little air pump that,

2441
02:35:31,040 --> 02:35:35,720
that pumps air in down into the agitator.

2442
02:35:36,140 --> 02:35:37,640
And on the agitator,

2443
02:35:37,640 --> 02:35:41,720
I created these whips out of polyethylene
pipes that go all the way out to the

2444
02:35:41,720 --> 02:35:44,400
edge of the barrel. So when
that's going back and forth,

2445
02:35:44,400 --> 02:35:49,400
those are basically acting as a sweep
to sweep the material off the floor

2446
02:35:49,400 --> 02:35:53,800
of the, uh, washing machine.
And with the aeration,

2447
02:35:53,800 --> 02:35:57,560
now as it sweeps, it's blowing
the stuff up into the, you know,

2448
02:35:57,720 --> 02:35:59,200
higher up into the water column,

2449
02:35:59,380 --> 02:36:03,320
and then only to sink back down in the
center and repeat, agitate and repeat,

2450
02:36:03,320 --> 02:36:07,800
repeat, repeat, or what is it? Rinse
and repeat. So by doing that, I'm,

2451
02:36:07,800 --> 02:36:11,320
I'm adding, uh, another level of, um,

2452
02:36:12,200 --> 02:36:15,880
physical force to this organic matter. Uh,

2453
02:36:15,880 --> 02:36:19,440
so it's colliding on the way up, it's
getting swept, it's getting ground,

2454
02:36:19,440 --> 02:36:22,640
it's getting pushed into each
other. Um, and then of course,

2455
02:36:22,640 --> 02:36:24,720
I'm adding a tremendous amount of oxygen,

2456
02:36:24,720 --> 02:36:29,560
dissolved oxygen into
the aqueous solution of

2457
02:36:29,560 --> 02:36:30,480
fish, brew, and water.

2458
02:36:30,850 --> 02:36:34,960
So I'm really getting another added
benefit by by doing that. But again,

2459
02:36:34,960 --> 02:36:37,960
without, without a proper
piece of equipment,

2460
02:36:37,960 --> 02:36:40,920
it's a lot more difficult to do that. Um,

2461
02:36:40,920 --> 02:36:45,720
the yogurt mixer has sweeps
on the outside pushing in. Um,

2462
02:36:45,720 --> 02:36:48,000
it's a cone bottom. And
of course, I've used a,

2463
02:36:48,000 --> 02:36:51,680
a tremendous amount of oxygen blowing
up through the center of that. So like,

2464
02:36:51,680 --> 02:36:56,000
that's creating that same aeration,
um, agitation that I did with the,

2465
02:36:56,000 --> 02:37:00,040
with the washing machine.
Um, and then on top of that,

2466
02:37:00,040 --> 02:37:02,160
I have two impellas opposing each other.

2467
02:37:02,490 --> 02:37:05,280
So one ipel is pulling from
the bottom and throwing it up,

2468
02:37:05,340 --> 02:37:08,360
and the ipel above that
is actually throwing,

2469
02:37:08,360 --> 02:37:11,960
pulling from the top and throwing
down. So I'm getting three levels of,

2470
02:37:11,960 --> 02:37:15,800
of agitation with that
piece of equipment. And I,

2471
02:37:15,800 --> 02:37:18,280
the reason why is because
I'm trying to do it, um,

2472
02:37:18,330 --> 02:37:23,040
as efficient and as quick as possible.
So I'm using all the different forces,

2473
02:37:23,570 --> 02:37:28,520
uh, possible to, you know, again,
produce high volume of, uh,

2474
02:37:28,700 --> 02:37:32,840
you know, super powerful inoculate
in a short period of time. So.

2475
02:37:32,840 --> 02:37:37,520
If, if this washing machine that
you have, um, uh, messed with,

2476
02:37:37,790 --> 02:37:42,760
it's got the, uh, organic
material and water in it,

2477
02:37:43,170 --> 02:37:47,550
um, what's coming out
of it, Like, like, um.

2478
02:37:47,550 --> 02:37:52,510
All right, so inside the barrel, um,
you'll see that's got holes, little tiny,

2479
02:37:52,510 --> 02:37:56,470
you know, eight inch drill holes all
the way around it. So that drill,

2480
02:37:56,470 --> 02:38:01,390
those drill holes are acting as a
screen. So when I'm washing my compost,

2481
02:38:01,670 --> 02:38:04,550
anything bigger than an eight inch
isn't gonna get through those holes.

2482
02:38:04,600 --> 02:38:07,830
It just stays in the
barrel. And when I spin it,

2483
02:38:07,890 --> 02:38:11,030
I'm now pulling all of that
moisture out of that product,

2484
02:38:11,600 --> 02:38:15,070
or out of what's left in the barrel,
and then what's left in the barrel,

2485
02:38:15,070 --> 02:38:17,830
I just scoop up and I throw it right
back in the compost pile again.

2486
02:38:18,400 --> 02:38:20,630
So that's the first level of screening.

2487
02:38:21,330 --> 02:38:25,310
And so, and, and, and the
water that's coming out of it,

2488
02:38:25,310 --> 02:38:27,070
that is not a waste product.

2489
02:38:27,880 --> 02:38:30,630
No, that's actually the, that's
the goodies, that's the point.

2490
02:38:31,800 --> 02:38:36,510
So, so you're using the water
and the agitation to, um,

2491
02:38:36,870 --> 02:38:41,710
strip everything out of
your organic material. Um,

2492
02:38:41,850 --> 02:38:42,590
and while,

2493
02:38:42,590 --> 02:38:46,030
while you're still gonna throw that
organic material back in the pile,

2494
02:38:46,250 --> 02:38:48,510
the goal is to, um,

2495
02:38:48,510 --> 02:38:51,870
have the organic material
give up its goodies.

2496
02:38:52,310 --> 02:38:56,470
Right? Right. And release all the
humic acids, folic acids, secondary,

2497
02:38:56,670 --> 02:39:00,190
tertiary mely along with all of the
biology that went in there. And again,

2498
02:39:00,610 --> 02:39:05,470
I'm using fish brew in that
process. So I'm basically using,

2499
02:39:05,880 --> 02:39:10,070
uh, about a gallon and a
half of fish brew and about

2500
02:39:10,830 --> 02:39:15,510
three and a half to four
gallons by volume of compost

2501
02:39:15,600 --> 02:39:19,070
in that one process.
Now, on a smaller scale,

2502
02:39:19,070 --> 02:39:21,710
you can do this in a compound
bucket and, and, you know,

2503
02:39:21,710 --> 02:39:25,790
buy a quarter a gallon
of, uh, fish brew. Um,

2504
02:39:25,790 --> 02:39:28,870
add that in there with, you know, a
couple handfuls of compost, you know,

2505
02:39:28,870 --> 02:39:33,470
agitate for 15, 20 minutes on slow,
and you'll get the same end results.

2506
02:39:34,080 --> 02:39:34,430
Um,

2507
02:39:34,430 --> 02:39:39,310
you just won't have been as
efficient in removing all of those

2508
02:39:39,630 --> 02:39:41,710
organisms and components
that you're looking for.

2509
02:39:41,710 --> 02:39:45,270
Right on. And, um, I know
you and I both share a, uh,

2510
02:39:45,270 --> 02:39:49,470
a love of the fish brew product, but
I'm always trying to make people, uh,

2511
02:39:49,470 --> 02:39:54,110
self-sufficient. So if somebody doesn't
wanna buy the fish brew, they can,

2512
02:39:54,530 --> 02:39:58,070
you know, go their own
way and collect fish poop.

2513
02:39:58,080 --> 02:40:02,510
So find themselves an aquaponics
company or whatever. The, the point is,

2514
02:40:02,510 --> 02:40:05,870
is that, you know, fish brew
is the easy way to go. But,

2515
02:40:05,870 --> 02:40:09,550
but you can also do this if
you use your aquarium water.

2516
02:40:10,080 --> 02:40:13,680
Oh, absolutely. Aquarium water
is wonderful. I mean, personally,

2517
02:40:13,680 --> 02:40:17,960
I don't know why every farmer
does not have at least a frigging,

2518
02:40:18,690 --> 02:40:23,000
um, you know, aquarium at the <laugh>.
And instead, why not a fish pond?

2519
02:40:23,000 --> 02:40:24,960
Why not? You know, I always promote, uh,

2520
02:40:25,050 --> 02:40:29,960
aquatic microorganisms as so important
and one of the biggest missing

2521
02:40:29,960 --> 02:40:34,200
pieces from the soil, because we don't
have mass migration anymore. We, we,

2522
02:40:34,200 --> 02:40:38,000
the soil used to get inoculated
every time a, a migration occurred.

2523
02:40:38,300 --> 02:40:42,960
But that doesn't happen anymore.
So, uh, Amos are, in my mind,

2524
02:40:43,020 --> 02:40:48,000
the, the foundation of, of
creating regenerative healthy soil.

2525
02:40:48,370 --> 02:40:52,320
Um, so without them, um, what
are you really accomplishing?

2526
02:40:52,320 --> 02:40:53,800
So another way to,

2527
02:40:54,370 --> 02:40:59,160
to get aquatic microorganisms
is to do a, um,

2528
02:40:59,270 --> 02:41:03,880
a, a wild craft of kelp or, or algae,

2529
02:41:04,170 --> 02:41:08,560
uh, duck weed, any of those things. Um,
and you basically, any aquatic plants,

2530
02:41:09,740 --> 02:41:12,840
you put 'em in a bucket,
put the wire mesh on top,

2531
02:41:13,140 --> 02:41:17,040
put a brick on it so that the plants
are all submersed below the water,

2532
02:41:17,500 --> 02:41:21,040
put it in the hot sun, um,
for three to five days,

2533
02:41:21,040 --> 02:41:24,880
Depends on where you are and
what temperature you're at. Um,

2534
02:41:24,880 --> 02:41:29,560
but what you'll see is a white frosty
foam that raises to the surface.

2535
02:41:30,020 --> 02:41:33,560
And again, it's gonna have a funky
smell, so your body's gonna be like, Ooh,

2536
02:41:33,560 --> 02:41:35,200
I don't, that's weird. What is that?

2537
02:41:35,610 --> 02:41:38,600
So you're gonna kind of
get a reaction to it. It,

2538
02:41:38,600 --> 02:41:41,080
it's not gonna smell like poop. Um,

2539
02:41:41,080 --> 02:41:44,400
but it's not gonna smell like forest
floor either. It's gonna smell funky,

2540
02:41:44,400 --> 02:41:46,720
kind of like those mushroom blocks. Um,

2541
02:41:46,720 --> 02:41:51,080
but that is a very powerful
aquatic microorganism, uh,

2542
02:41:51,080 --> 02:41:54,920
inoculate that you can pour on
your compost file. And, you know,

2543
02:41:54,920 --> 02:41:57,880
it's funny that, that you
say that about fish brew.

2544
02:41:57,880 --> 02:42:02,720
And I just traveled the entire country
and, uh, we did soil micro, uh,

2545
02:42:02,720 --> 02:42:07,280
soil awareness classes. I, I think I did
seven of them, um, across the country.

2546
02:42:07,280 --> 02:42:10,400
And, and I had the same answer at
every one of them. I'm like, Dude,

2547
02:42:10,400 --> 02:42:12,320
you need fish brew,
dude. You need fish brew.

2548
02:42:12,540 --> 02:42:14,440
And I was got to the point
where I was like, Man,

2549
02:42:14,440 --> 02:42:18,240
these people probably think I own fish
brew <laugh>, and reality. I don't,

2550
02:42:18,240 --> 02:42:19,240
I have no stake in it.

2551
02:42:19,240 --> 02:42:24,080
All I can tell you is that I've
been using that product since Rodale

2552
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:28,160
since the inception of trying to
do this. A actually before Rodale,

2553
02:42:28,500 --> 02:42:32,280
I'd come to realize that
there was something really
special about fish manure.

2554
02:42:32,530 --> 02:42:36,120
Um, because every time I pour it
on a plant, I'd see plant reaction.

2555
02:42:36,120 --> 02:42:39,480
That's the whole reason I went down
to Rodale to talk to this woman named

2556
02:42:39,480 --> 02:42:41,280
Elaine, who had no idea who she was,

2557
02:42:41,740 --> 02:42:44,320
and show her this stuff and
put it under the microscope.

2558
02:42:44,320 --> 02:42:47,000
And she came back and goes, Holy
shit, where did you get this?

2559
02:42:47,770 --> 02:42:49,800
So it is the, the,

2560
02:42:49,860 --> 02:42:53,720
the missing piece of the pie. The biology,

2561
02:42:54,430 --> 02:42:57,440
just like in soil science,
they're missing the biology.

2562
02:42:58,100 --> 02:43:02,960
Everybody's missing the biology. And
can you do this with your own compost?

2563
02:43:03,070 --> 02:43:07,040
Absolutely. You have two choices,
time or money, how much time you got.

2564
02:43:07,040 --> 02:43:09,280
If you don't have a lot of time,
then you need to spend the money.

2565
02:43:09,690 --> 02:43:12,360
If you don't have a lot of money,
money, then you gotta spend the time.

2566
02:43:12,460 --> 02:43:15,680
But can you do it without
fish brew? Absolutely.

2567
02:43:15,680 --> 02:43:19,080
But it's gonna take time and,
and trials and, and, you know,

2568
02:43:19,400 --> 02:43:22,440
learning how to work with,
um, aquatic organisms.

2569
02:43:22,900 --> 02:43:26,680
All right. So back to how
you are mechanically, uh,

2570
02:43:26,680 --> 02:43:29,880
breaking up and stripping your
soil. We've got the first one,

2571
02:43:29,880 --> 02:43:33,280
which is your soft colliding, uh, washing
machine. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

2572
02:43:33,280 --> 02:43:34,113
what's another one?

2573
02:43:34,790 --> 02:43:39,760
Okay, so soft colliding, um, AAN
dissolved oxygen in the water.

2574
02:43:39,800 --> 02:43:43,720
Again, adding those other elements
because every time that bubble comes up,

2575
02:43:43,720 --> 02:43:48,400
it pushing something out of the way
and displacing and putting it back into

2576
02:43:48,400 --> 02:43:53,400
mechanical, uh, back into a
mechanical force position.

2577
02:43:54,130 --> 02:43:58,840
Um, so then after you go
through, uh, those basic,

2578
02:43:58,970 --> 02:44:01,760
or I wanna call beginning processes of,

2579
02:44:01,760 --> 02:44:06,360
of pulling apart the organic
matter, um, the next would be, uh,

2580
02:44:06,360 --> 02:44:07,640
through dewatering.

2581
02:44:08,130 --> 02:44:11,760
So by dewatering there's a couple
of different ways to do it. Um,

2582
02:44:11,760 --> 02:44:16,160
there are some really cool screw presses
where you'd feed in this slurry at the

2583
02:44:16,160 --> 02:44:19,040
top of it, and it has a big auger in it,

2584
02:44:19,040 --> 02:44:23,880
and it presses that material
until the liquid oozes out the

2585
02:44:23,880 --> 02:44:28,400
sides. And eventually you just get
this cake that comes out the end where,

2586
02:44:28,400 --> 02:44:33,320
where when the screw pressure has
gotten so great that the end of it

2587
02:44:33,320 --> 02:44:38,280
will kind of open up a little bit and
let let some of the dewatered organic

2588
02:44:38,280 --> 02:44:42,720
matter to spill out
into the waste pan. Um,

2589
02:44:42,870 --> 02:44:47,080
I've also used, uh, personally,
I've, I've went toward,

2590
02:44:47,570 --> 02:44:51,000
um, what's called a concrete vibrator. Um,

2591
02:44:51,000 --> 02:44:56,000
it's used to mount on the walls of
foundations so that you're vibrating

2592
02:44:56,000 --> 02:45:00,520
the concrete to get all of the
air out of it. And I use that, um,

2593
02:45:00,610 --> 02:45:05,480
in conjunction with a metal
or wood frame and with

2594
02:45:05,630 --> 02:45:06,800
a, um,

2595
02:45:07,000 --> 02:45:11,240
stainless steel mesh screen
that I string like a guitar.

2596
02:45:11,890 --> 02:45:12,320
Um,

2597
02:45:12,320 --> 02:45:17,200
and then I suspended on these rubber
isolators so that the vibration is

2598
02:45:17,200 --> 02:45:20,840
only occurring on the screen and not
vibrating everything else around it.

2599
02:45:20,970 --> 02:45:25,920
So I've basically isolated the
vibration. And when I hit the certain,

2600
02:45:26,290 --> 02:45:30,160
if you do this, you get the variable
speed and you turn it up or down,

2601
02:45:30,160 --> 02:45:32,640
and you'll get this point
where it's called resonance.

2602
02:45:33,110 --> 02:45:37,800
When everything is vibrating and the
liquid just pours out of it. If you're,

2603
02:45:37,930 --> 02:45:41,920
if you're not right, what's gonna happen
is the top is gonna start vibrating,

2604
02:45:41,920 --> 02:45:44,960
and you're gonna see all this
air bubbles and stuff coming up.

2605
02:45:45,220 --> 02:45:47,960
But when you hit that
sweet spot, that resonance,

2606
02:45:48,150 --> 02:45:51,520
you're not seeing any
surface action on the top,

2607
02:45:51,580 --> 02:45:55,720
but you're just hearing the water
pouring out of the bottom. Um,

2608
02:45:56,190 --> 02:46:01,160
that has a couple of different
advantages. Um, first of all,

2609
02:46:01,160 --> 02:46:01,520
yes,

2610
02:46:01,520 --> 02:46:06,400
you're getting the maximum amount of
liquid out of that organic matter that is

2611
02:46:06,400 --> 02:46:09,760
otherwise oversaturated, Um,

2612
02:46:10,260 --> 02:46:12,840
but through vibration,

2613
02:46:14,190 --> 02:46:18,080
your exciting electrons, and this
gets really fucking deep, um,

2614
02:46:18,080 --> 02:46:23,080
but excited electrons tend to want
to interact with each other. Um,

2615
02:46:23,080 --> 02:46:26,240
they want to hold, they want to bond. Um,

2616
02:46:26,250 --> 02:46:31,120
so one of the most interesting
phenomenon behind this

2617
02:46:31,120 --> 02:46:35,520
process is that I noticed
after I've vibrated it

2618
02:46:36,300 --> 02:46:39,720
and say, I wanna sift out some
rejuvenate or some alliance,

2619
02:46:39,720 --> 02:46:43,760
which is one of the two products,
the solid products that I make, um,

2620
02:46:43,910 --> 02:46:45,320
I will see, you know,

2621
02:46:45,380 --> 02:46:49,280
the liquid goes through and
then the clumps on the surface

2622
02:46:49,960 --> 02:46:52,800
start to clad. They start to attach, they,

2623
02:46:52,800 --> 02:46:57,160
they start to form micro aggregates
almost immediately. It, it's,

2624
02:46:57,160 --> 02:46:59,440
it's crazy shago. Um,

2625
02:46:59,440 --> 02:47:03,960
and I've noticed too that when I take
it to the next level and, and, you know,

2626
02:47:04,560 --> 02:47:09,320
stabilize or completely dewater
the alliance or the Rejuvenate, um,

2627
02:47:09,320 --> 02:47:12,920
I basically put it in a
giant press, uh, screw press,

2628
02:47:12,920 --> 02:47:15,160
and I just keep cranking it, um,

2629
02:47:15,160 --> 02:47:19,480
until I squeeze out what is
literally pure folic acid.

2630
02:47:20,330 --> 02:47:24,160
Um, I then take that cake and I,

2631
02:47:24,160 --> 02:47:28,480
again run it through a vibrating
screen to create that soft,

2632
02:47:28,480 --> 02:47:32,080
fluffy stuff that you talked about earlier
in the show. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

2633
02:47:32,390 --> 02:47:37,080
when you put that stuff
on soil, oh my God,

2634
02:47:37,460 --> 02:47:40,760
automatically, clay
platelets, uh, sand particles,

2635
02:47:40,760 --> 02:47:44,240
they just start to bond together
and create these micro aggregates.

2636
02:47:44,590 --> 02:47:48,480
I I can only explain it
through my understanding of,

2637
02:47:48,490 --> 02:47:53,440
of quantum mechanics, that
when you stimulate, um,

2638
02:47:53,840 --> 02:47:56,320
electrons and, and protons, um,

2639
02:47:56,750 --> 02:48:01,160
that you can actually create
these, uh, paramagnetic charges,

2640
02:48:01,850 --> 02:48:03,760
um, that begin to, um,

2641
02:48:03,830 --> 02:48:07,880
want to attract or repel
based on their charge.

2642
02:48:08,950 --> 02:48:10,240
I know that was a deep one.

2643
02:48:10,240 --> 02:48:13,960
No, no. Makes sense though. So I've got
five of these so far. Soft colliding,

2644
02:48:13,960 --> 02:48:18,080
washing machine, aeration
bubbles, dewatering press,

2645
02:48:18,960 --> 02:48:22,360
concrete vibrator, and then a
vibrating screen. What else? Mm-hmm.

2646
02:48:22,400 --> 02:48:23,880
<affirmative>, what
else? Is that it? Or the.

2647
02:48:23,880 --> 02:48:27,560
Another one? I would would say that's
the majority of it. I mean, again, um,

2648
02:48:28,390 --> 02:48:33,080
your goal here is to
lower the moisture value

2649
02:48:33,610 --> 02:48:38,200
of the product. If you're trying
to make it shelf stable. If, if,

2650
02:48:38,210 --> 02:48:41,720
if shelf stability isn't an issue and
you just wanna make it and use it,

2651
02:48:42,070 --> 02:48:46,000
then you don't have to go through,
um, all of these processes. Like you,

2652
02:48:46,000 --> 02:48:49,400
you can just like, literally
like, just take it, mix it,

2653
02:48:49,550 --> 02:48:52,240
I port it into a paint
strainer, which was stupid.

2654
02:48:52,240 --> 02:48:55,960
I should have used a insect
screen because in turn,

2655
02:48:55,960 --> 02:48:58,440
we're only putting it in a
watering can and watering it.

2656
02:48:58,530 --> 02:49:02,200
So I don't need to take all the
big chunks out of it. Um, the,

2657
02:49:02,200 --> 02:49:04,560
the more chunky it is, um,

2658
02:49:04,620 --> 02:49:09,480
the better and higher level of
inoculation that you can create,

2659
02:49:09,890 --> 02:49:12,840
uh, quicker. So again,
the chunkier the better.

2660
02:49:13,050 --> 02:49:15,640
So I think those are pretty
much the primary forces.

2661
02:49:15,940 --> 02:49:19,240
And then it's just a matter of, all
right, how are you applying it? Okay.

2662
02:49:19,240 --> 02:49:21,360
And that'll, that'll
drive you to, All right,

2663
02:49:21,360 --> 02:49:25,240
I got screen it to this level cuz I'm
running it through a diaphragm pump.

2664
02:49:25,240 --> 02:49:29,920
Please do not use centrifugal force.
Centrifugal force creates cavitation,

2665
02:49:29,920 --> 02:49:34,680
cavitation kills biology. So you
don't want to have any kind of,

2666
02:49:35,290 --> 02:49:39,320
uh, mechanical, uh, pumps that,

2667
02:49:39,320 --> 02:49:43,360
that will create cavitation
or centrifugal force. You,

2668
02:49:43,360 --> 02:49:44,960
you want to use a diaphragm pump.

2669
02:49:45,090 --> 02:49:48,640
So if you are using a diaphragm
pump and you've got spray rig or,

2670
02:49:48,640 --> 02:49:50,320
or nozzles that you gotta deal with,

2671
02:49:50,350 --> 02:49:54,560
then you have to screen to that level
to get it out there in the field.

2672
02:49:54,810 --> 02:49:57,800
So I wanna, I wanna take a pause here and,

2673
02:49:57,800 --> 02:50:01,160
and like for people who possibly like me,

2674
02:50:01,400 --> 02:50:05,760
these last five steps that
you have mentioned, um, were,

2675
02:50:05,760 --> 02:50:10,160
are very, um, off putting, right?
Cause like I'm not, I I, I'm,

2676
02:50:10,160 --> 02:50:13,480
I wouldn't do this stuff, right, <laugh>.
And, and I think it's important to,

2677
02:50:13,490 --> 02:50:17,960
to point out that the, the
point of the show was to, uh,

2678
02:50:17,960 --> 02:50:22,200
encourage folks to make a cold, um,

2679
02:50:22,470 --> 02:50:26,360
a cold compost, which
is essentially a, um,

2680
02:50:26,360 --> 02:50:28,800
organic material microbe inoculate.

2681
02:50:28,940 --> 02:50:31,600
And you don't have to do this last part.

2682
02:50:31,900 --> 02:50:36,040
All you needed to do was
just not ha not, you know,

2683
02:50:36,040 --> 02:50:40,720
put the care into collecting
your plants and then not

2684
02:50:40,720 --> 02:50:45,480
let the pile get too hot.
Um, like that's, that's it.

2685
02:50:45,480 --> 02:50:49,840
That that's the whole point of what
we're encouraging folks to make.

2686
02:50:50,180 --> 02:50:53,520
And, but, but to do it right, you
need to do things like, you know,

2687
02:50:53,590 --> 02:50:58,120
make sure you avoid your pathogens
by using plant material only and

2688
02:50:58,310 --> 02:51:00,680
make sure it doesn't
get too hot. And then,

2689
02:51:00,680 --> 02:51:02,760
like the stuff that we
talked about during set two,

2690
02:51:03,360 --> 02:51:07,360
these things that we're
talking about now, uh,

2691
02:51:07,680 --> 02:51:11,960
number one, they remove the
water to make your final, um,

2692
02:51:12,920 --> 02:51:16,760
material shelf stable. But
also by breaking it up,

2693
02:51:17,090 --> 02:51:18,560
it creates, um,

2694
02:51:19,070 --> 02:51:23,920
lots of places for
microbe life to attach to

2695
02:51:23,920 --> 02:51:26,920
the soil. Like, like it
means that the, the, the,

2696
02:51:26,920 --> 02:51:31,320
the compost will be quickly
integrated into wherever you place it.

2697
02:51:31,860 --> 02:51:33,640
And also, um,

2698
02:51:34,160 --> 02:51:38,240
increases the places for community, right?

2699
02:51:38,240 --> 02:51:43,120
Because there's all these like 360 degree
ridges everywhere. But, but, but if,

2700
02:51:43,120 --> 02:51:47,560
if we lost you here at the beginning of
set three with this mechanical stuff,

2701
02:51:47,850 --> 02:51:51,720
um, don't lose heart because you don't,
you don't have to do this part. This is,

2702
02:51:51,750 --> 02:51:56,320
this is really just a way
to finish it if you need to,

2703
02:51:56,980 --> 02:51:59,040
you know, make it stable
where you're gonna, you know,

2704
02:51:59,040 --> 02:52:02,960
make it once a year and then let it sit
all year, right? Don't have to do this.

2705
02:52:03,250 --> 02:52:04,560
No, you don't have to do this.

2706
02:52:04,560 --> 02:52:09,240
But the reason that this is
important to understand is all about

2707
02:52:09,880 --> 02:52:14,640
delivery. So we've grown these organisms.
We, we've, we've done the work. We,

2708
02:52:14,640 --> 02:52:18,200
we've made this beautiful
biologically rich compost.

2709
02:52:18,540 --> 02:52:22,360
How do we get that
biology into the soil, um,

2710
02:52:22,660 --> 02:52:27,400
effectively and efficiently? The
only way to do that is with liquid,

2711
02:52:27,730 --> 02:52:32,040
because the liquid will help move those
organisms down into the soil profile.

2712
02:52:32,140 --> 02:52:35,120
You take your compost, this
amazing stuff that you made,

2713
02:52:35,120 --> 02:52:37,240
and you top dress will,

2714
02:52:37,920 --> 02:52:42,840
50% of it's gonna get oxidated
and die or exposed to UV and

2715
02:52:42,840 --> 02:52:47,760
die. So how effective did you get those
microorganisms down into the soil?

2716
02:52:48,140 --> 02:52:50,920
Not very effectively.
You lost 50% of them.

2717
02:52:50,920 --> 02:52:54,320
So you're actually making
two products here. Um, the,

2718
02:52:54,320 --> 02:52:58,840
the one product is the
actual low moisture,

2719
02:52:59,330 --> 02:53:02,360
um, inoculated compost
that even though, you know,

2720
02:53:02,360 --> 02:53:07,080
you've removed most of the water,
it is still brimming with life. And,

2721
02:53:07,080 --> 02:53:10,040
and it's essentially a dry good
that you can sell in a bag.

2722
02:53:10,420 --> 02:53:14,880
But then there's a secondary
product or useful product, um,

2723
02:53:14,880 --> 02:53:18,800
which is the, the water that
keeps on coming out of this stuff,

2724
02:53:18,800 --> 02:53:22,920
which is just also
brimming with life. And,

2725
02:53:23,060 --> 02:53:26,680
and that you're, you know, we don't
care about it being shelf stable.

2726
02:53:26,680 --> 02:53:28,320
You're just gonna pour
that on your plants.

2727
02:53:28,800 --> 02:53:31,760
Right? And that's the
key again, is delivery.

2728
02:53:31,850 --> 02:53:35,240
So how do we get these microorganisms, uh,

2729
02:53:35,470 --> 02:53:37,960
into a condominium where they
have food, water, and cover?

2730
02:53:37,960 --> 02:53:41,960
And then how do we get them down into
the soil profile where they're gonna be

2731
02:53:41,960 --> 02:53:46,520
safe and sound and, and continue
to grow inoculate. So the,

2732
02:53:47,180 --> 02:53:51,240
the other product that we're talking
about is harmonize, um, highly unstable.

2733
02:53:51,240 --> 02:53:56,080
Like if you leave this in a
bucket for a day, maybe two,

2734
02:53:56,080 --> 02:53:56,560
you're.

2735
02:53:56,560 --> 02:53:57,360
Talking about water.

2736
02:53:57,360 --> 02:53:59,200
Right? Yeah. The liquid. Um,

2737
02:53:59,200 --> 02:54:03,920
it's gonna go anaerobic because there's
just so much what's called biological

2738
02:54:04,310 --> 02:54:06,840
oxygen demand, b o d,

2739
02:54:07,010 --> 02:54:10,080
because there's so much
at going on in activity,

2740
02:54:10,080 --> 02:54:14,440
they're stripping the dissolved oxygen
out of that water at such a fast rate

2741
02:54:14,870 --> 02:54:19,000
that it, it can't survive.
And if it goes anaerobic,

2742
02:54:19,000 --> 02:54:21,320
well now I've defeated my whole purpose.

2743
02:54:21,810 --> 02:54:26,120
My purpose was to get minerals,

2744
02:54:26,640 --> 02:54:31,120
nutrients, biology into the soil
so that it could do its work.

2745
02:54:31,120 --> 02:54:35,080
And it was no longer mobile. In other
words, if it rained, it didn't wash away.

2746
02:54:35,540 --> 02:54:37,440
But if I go anaerobic,

2747
02:54:37,440 --> 02:54:42,280
I've basically made a nutrient
solution that's all the plant needs

2748
02:54:42,280 --> 02:54:45,000
right there in that liquid,
even though it smells like hell,

2749
02:54:45,730 --> 02:54:47,200
if I pour it on that plant,

2750
02:54:47,320 --> 02:54:49,520
the plant's gonna be able to
take it up really quickly.

2751
02:54:49,660 --> 02:54:53,800
But if it rains or I water, I've
washed it all out of the profile.

2752
02:54:54,050 --> 02:54:58,960
So I think that's the real missing
piece is mobile or not mobile.

2753
02:54:59,550 --> 02:55:00,920
What am I producing?

2754
02:55:00,920 --> 02:55:05,920
And my goal was always to
produce non-mobile nutrients that

2755
02:55:05,970 --> 02:55:09,720
in the form of biology
that could be there for,

2756
02:55:09,720 --> 02:55:13,320
as a nutrient bank for forever,
for thousands of years.

2757
02:55:14,130 --> 02:55:16,160
So that's again, the,

2758
02:55:16,160 --> 02:55:20,880
the mechanical side of this is how to
effectively and efficiently deliver this

2759
02:55:20,880 --> 02:55:25,800
very sensitive biology down into a
place where it is safe and it has

2760
02:55:25,800 --> 02:55:26,960
food, water, and cover.

2761
02:55:27,700 --> 02:55:32,520
And if you are somebody like me
who is very interested in a cold

2762
02:55:32,730 --> 02:55:37,240
compost, but I'm not gonna do
the mechanical aspects of this,

2763
02:55:37,570 --> 02:55:42,200
it is also fabulous and way
better than your thermal

2764
02:55:42,370 --> 02:55:47,160
compost if you were to just
make this cold compost pile

2765
02:55:47,660 --> 02:55:52,600
and then make a compost tea
with it and just pour it on

2766
02:55:52,600 --> 02:55:54,000
your plants and get right to it.

2767
02:55:54,390 --> 02:55:58,840
That's the, that's Essent essentially
what we did, we made a compost extract,

2768
02:55:58,840 --> 02:56:02,200
not a tea. Like yeah, you could
take this biological compost,

2769
02:56:02,240 --> 02:56:06,360
throw it in your brewer, whether you put
it in a bag or free brew it personally,

2770
02:56:06,360 --> 02:56:10,040
I would free brew it. Um, which is
basically just throw handfuls in there,

2771
02:56:10,040 --> 02:56:14,360
bubble it for, uh, 30 hours. Again,
we, we need to touch base on that,

2772
02:56:14,360 --> 02:56:17,400
why that's such a critical
point in time. Um,

2773
02:56:17,400 --> 02:56:20,520
but now I've made a compost brew. So I've,

2774
02:56:20,520 --> 02:56:22,680
I've taken a handful of
this compost that I made.

2775
02:56:22,720 --> 02:56:26,440
The cold compost threw in a little
bit of sugars. Again, it's, uh,

2776
02:56:26,440 --> 02:56:31,200
you wanna make sure you're using,
um, un sulfur black strap molasses,

2777
02:56:31,650 --> 02:56:36,640
uh, no more than one ounce per
20 gallons. If you do use more,

2778
02:56:36,640 --> 02:56:40,360
you're gonna raise the
biological oxygen demand, b o d,

2779
02:56:40,580 --> 02:56:44,840
and you're gonna have an anaerobic
shit show. So you gotta eat very,

2780
02:56:44,840 --> 02:56:46,120
very little bit of foods.

2781
02:56:47,020 --> 02:56:51,560
You bubble it for 30 hours
and then use it up by hour 36.

2782
02:56:52,020 --> 02:56:57,000
The reason being is that between hour
20 and hour 24 is when you start to

2783
02:56:57,000 --> 02:57:00,600
get your high level of ProTool
and production. In other words,

2784
02:57:00,600 --> 02:57:05,000
you've provided the bacteria, you provided
the deer. Now of a sudden the lions,

2785
02:57:05,000 --> 02:57:08,280
the bears and the wolves are coming in
and they're breeding like crazy because

2786
02:57:08,280 --> 02:57:10,120
there's so much food in the source.

2787
02:57:10,620 --> 02:57:15,560
And that's why it's critical that you
wait till hour 30 so that you've had a

2788
02:57:15,560 --> 02:57:19,800
good six to eight hours of high
level of ProTool and production.

2789
02:57:19,800 --> 02:57:24,080
Because at the end of the day,
everybody's missing the protozoa.

2790
02:57:24,230 --> 02:57:28,520
It's all about the ProTool. We all
have bacterially dominant soils.

2791
02:57:29,250 --> 02:57:32,080
So what is the missing piece? Proto?

2792
02:57:32,130 --> 02:57:35,480
They're the ones that are eating the
bacteria and releasing that plant

2793
02:57:35,480 --> 02:57:39,880
available. So the other point is
that, yeah, if you just took this,

2794
02:57:40,170 --> 02:57:40,670
uh,

2795
02:57:40,670 --> 02:57:45,440
this cold compost and you threw it in
some water and agitated it with your

2796
02:57:45,440 --> 02:57:47,400
hands and then pour it on your plants,

2797
02:57:47,860 --> 02:57:50,880
now you've basically made
a compost extract with it.

2798
02:57:51,130 --> 02:57:53,960
So do you need the mechanical
stuff? No, you can use your hands,

2799
02:57:54,260 --> 02:57:58,120
but if you're gonna take the time to
actually massage it with your hands for a

2800
02:57:58,120 --> 02:58:00,640
period of time, wouldn't it have
been easier? Or use a power drill.

2801
02:58:01,440 --> 02:58:01,980
<Laugh>?

2802
02:58:01,980 --> 02:58:05,360
You know, so I, Go ahead. Yeah,
no, I was gonna say, it's,

2803
02:58:05,360 --> 02:58:06,520
it's all about delivery.

2804
02:58:06,520 --> 02:58:10,200
How are you getting those organisms
into the soil the most effective and

2805
02:58:10,200 --> 02:58:10,860
efficient way?

2806
02:58:10,860 --> 02:58:15,680
And I think the key to this
is go ahead and make your cold

2807
02:58:15,930 --> 02:58:18,800
compost pile. And once you have that,

2808
02:58:18,800 --> 02:58:22,480
there's a whole bunch of different
ways that you can apply it. But,

2809
02:58:22,480 --> 02:58:27,360
but we're encouraging you to make
the pile and don't overheat it.

2810
02:58:27,360 --> 02:58:30,600
And once you have that,
you can do it the easy way,

2811
02:58:30,600 --> 02:58:33,600
which is how I will be doing it,
which is to take a, you know,

2812
02:58:33,600 --> 02:58:37,320
a few handfuls and bubble it up for
30 hours and put it on your plants.

2813
02:58:37,700 --> 02:58:40,520
You wanna take that
further because, you know,

2814
02:58:40,520 --> 02:58:45,080
maybe you're scaled and you want this
to be available to you in a few months.

2815
02:58:45,150 --> 02:58:48,880
Well then go through more of the
mechanical stuff, press out the water,

2816
02:58:49,220 --> 02:58:51,880
and then you can, you can put that, um,

2817
02:58:51,880 --> 02:58:55,800
that compost on the shelf and it will
be ready for you when you need to use it

2818
02:58:55,800 --> 02:59:00,040
in a few months. And you can
use that water now. So, um, but,

2819
02:59:00,040 --> 02:59:02,400
but really it's all about getting,

2820
02:59:02,730 --> 02:59:06,400
getting that pile made and
not having the pile get hot.

2821
02:59:07,260 --> 02:59:10,600
I'm end of that dude. All right.
It's all about in making ingredients.

2822
02:59:10,740 --> 02:59:15,120
One interesting footnote I would like
to throw in here is that people will be

2823
02:59:15,720 --> 02:59:20,160
astonished at all the unexpected
benefits that come from

2824
02:59:20,480 --> 02:59:22,640
using a, um,

2825
02:59:22,990 --> 02:59:26,320
a biology rich cold compost.

2826
02:59:26,700 --> 02:59:31,040
And the one example that I want to have,
because it's really hard to say, Oh,

2827
02:59:31,040 --> 02:59:35,360
my plant's color got so much better
and, and oh, like, like, like the,

2828
02:59:35,360 --> 02:59:39,320
the flowers were so good and oh my
gosh, the flowers tasted better.

2829
02:59:39,320 --> 02:59:43,720
I felt like it had a wider terpene profile
than I normally get. All that's true,

2830
02:59:43,720 --> 02:59:47,120
but it's really hard to,
to, to, to measure that.

2831
02:59:47,120 --> 02:59:50,800
But what I can tell you
is if you go back in,

2832
02:59:50,850 --> 02:59:53,440
in the shaping fire Instagram,
you know, we've got these,

2833
02:59:53,550 --> 02:59:57,840
this four by four indoor
bed that, um, you know,

2834
02:59:57,840 --> 03:00:00,600
even though I'm using
electricity for l e d lights,

2835
03:00:00,780 --> 03:00:04,560
I'm trying to use regenerative
techniques indoors, uh,

2836
03:00:04,560 --> 03:00:07,400
it kind of has an experiment.
Um, because, you know,

2837
03:00:07,400 --> 03:00:11,200
doing regenerative stuff indoors has
got its own challenges. And so I,

2838
03:00:11,200 --> 03:00:15,240
I did that and, um, I ended up with a, uh,

2839
03:00:15,240 --> 03:00:19,880
fungus nat breakout for whatever
reason. And, um, and I'm like,

2840
03:00:19,880 --> 03:00:20,560
you know, I,

2841
03:00:20,560 --> 03:00:24,920
I'm talking with my providers about the
beneficial insects I want and all this

2842
03:00:24,920 --> 03:00:28,360
kind of stuff, and, and I call you to
bitch cuz we're friends and we do that.

2843
03:00:28,360 --> 03:00:30,720
And I'm like, ah, I got this
situation. And you're like, Oh,

2844
03:00:31,140 --> 03:00:35,360
let me send you up this cold, calm post,

2845
03:00:36,170 --> 03:00:37,003
um,

2846
03:00:37,110 --> 03:00:42,040
that I've made and then bubble it up
and port on your bed. And I'm like,

2847
03:00:42,040 --> 03:00:44,840
I don't know. I don't
understand how a, you know,

2848
03:00:44,870 --> 03:00:49,080
a fricking compost tea is
going to, um, you know,

2849
03:00:49,080 --> 03:00:50,880
get rid of my nats. If anything,

2850
03:00:50,880 --> 03:00:55,240
it's going to make the soil more wet
and I'm gonna get more fungus nats.

2851
03:00:55,240 --> 03:00:57,960
And you're like, Well, first of all,
it's not a tea, it's an extract.

2852
03:00:57,960 --> 03:01:01,640
And I'm like, Go. All right. And uh,
and, and, and then, but then you said,

2853
03:01:01,640 --> 03:01:05,120
you said just do it. And I'm like, All
right, well, I trust you enough. I just,

2854
03:01:05,120 --> 03:01:08,280
you know, very often I will just
do the stuff you say and, and,

2855
03:01:08,280 --> 03:01:10,840
and then watch for the benefit.
And then, and so that's what I did.

2856
03:01:10,840 --> 03:01:13,560
And I'll be damned, it was like I, I, I,

2857
03:01:13,750 --> 03:01:18,480
I made this and I put the five
gallons of it. Um, first I,

2858
03:01:18,510 --> 03:01:23,360
I, I, uh, sprayed it on the top, so I
made sure that I got all the top areas,

2859
03:01:23,360 --> 03:01:28,240
but then I just kinda like poured
the rest in. And, um, you know,

2860
03:01:28,240 --> 03:01:28,640
I was,

2861
03:01:28,640 --> 03:01:33,520
I had no fungus nats within 48 hours I

2862
03:01:33,520 --> 03:01:36,880
was flabbergasted. And I
called you and I'm all like,

2863
03:01:36,880 --> 03:01:40,640
What kind of sorcery is this? And,
and, and how did you explain it to me?

2864
03:01:41,560 --> 03:01:46,440
<Laugh>, it is sorcery, not <laugh>. Um,

2865
03:01:46,440 --> 03:01:50,720
basically what you did was you threw
down a bunch of hungry microbes,

2866
03:01:51,370 --> 03:01:56,200
uh, and with a food source
of, of fungal larvae, uh,

2867
03:01:56,200 --> 03:01:59,600
fungal nat larvae all over the
place. So they just went to town,

2868
03:01:59,930 --> 03:02:01,480
it was like buffet time.

2869
03:02:02,210 --> 03:02:03,920
So yeah, so, so the,

2870
03:02:03,980 --> 03:02:08,840
the predators essentially that
were in this highly inoculated

2871
03:02:08,970 --> 03:02:13,800
extract, they went and they ate all
the laal of the, of the fungus nats.

2872
03:02:13,800 --> 03:02:17,680
And like, I never even considered
that approach to fungus Nats.

2873
03:02:17,680 --> 03:02:20,920
And it worked nearly instantly
and was like, you know,

2874
03:02:20,950 --> 03:02:23,880
very economical to do. Um,

2875
03:02:23,940 --> 03:02:27,760
but that is just an example I
want to give folks for, you know,

2876
03:02:27,760 --> 03:02:30,960
once you start, I mean, we
all love the microbes, right?

2877
03:02:30,960 --> 03:02:34,800
And we all believe in imo and we all
believe in using nature as our ally,

2878
03:02:35,140 --> 03:02:38,120
but this is kind of next level. Um,

2879
03:02:38,220 --> 03:02:42,760
and I encourage folks to, to,
to go do it. So, all right,

2880
03:02:43,170 --> 03:02:47,400
so, uh, in, in, in bringing us kind of
like to a close here, Layton, you know,

2881
03:02:47,400 --> 03:02:49,880
we, we, we talked about, you know,

2882
03:02:50,630 --> 03:02:55,600
what kinds of compost or things that
are called compost are available to us.

2883
03:02:55,600 --> 03:02:59,080
And, and we talked about what
those options were like, and, and,

2884
03:02:59,080 --> 03:03:03,480
and some of 'em, like Verma, vermaculture
compost, we fricking love and,

2885
03:03:03,480 --> 03:03:07,800
and some of it like the bag stuff
we don't really love. Um, but,

2886
03:03:08,180 --> 03:03:12,960
but the one thing was that we wanted
to encourage folks to not heat their

2887
03:03:12,960 --> 03:03:16,240
piles. And so, so people go
ahead and they, they, they,

2888
03:03:16,240 --> 03:03:20,200
they don't heat their piles.
They're using clean, non pathogenic,

2889
03:03:20,970 --> 03:03:25,080
um, green materials and browns
and, and, and then they,

2890
03:03:25,080 --> 03:03:29,000
and they have this and they make
it. And so now they've got what,

2891
03:03:29,790 --> 03:03:34,280
what is going to be the nature of the pot

2892
03:03:34,280 --> 03:03:37,240
container or the soil if you're
going right in the ground?

2893
03:03:37,590 --> 03:03:42,400
Kind of bring us home
here by describing the

2894
03:03:42,400 --> 03:03:47,240
nature of the soil after this
application versus the nature of

2895
03:03:47,240 --> 03:03:50,920
their soil before the application.
And we'll end with this.

2896
03:03:51,470 --> 03:03:52,280
Okay? Uh,

2897
03:03:52,280 --> 03:03:57,000
that's probably the whole point of
this conversation is soil aggregate.

2898
03:03:57,690 --> 03:04:00,680
Um, that's the reason you use compost. Um,

2899
03:04:00,680 --> 03:04:05,400
and that's the reason we use microbes
is because they actually form,

2900
03:04:05,770 --> 03:04:08,440
um, aggregation. And what is aggregation?

2901
03:04:08,760 --> 03:04:13,520
Aggregation is like a little clump of
sandil and clay and organic matter.

2902
03:04:13,890 --> 03:04:17,720
Um, inside that clump
is, is waterfalls and,

2903
03:04:17,720 --> 03:04:22,480
and ponds and cities and
walkways and parks and all

2904
03:04:22,480 --> 03:04:26,640
kinds of different
creatures and organisms, um,

2905
03:04:27,080 --> 03:04:31,440
considered a zoo. And so inside that, in,

2906
03:04:31,440 --> 03:04:35,760
and it's in this article that
talks about the magic that the bio

2907
03:04:35,860 --> 03:04:40,560
geochemical reactions that are
happening inside that aggregate. Um,

2908
03:04:40,590 --> 03:04:43,200
it's, we don't have tools
to measure this yet.

2909
03:04:43,200 --> 03:04:47,760
We don't have the technology to
test it or monitor it or actually

2910
03:04:48,280 --> 03:04:53,160
scope it in situ. Um, there is a new
instrument that, that was invented,

2911
03:04:53,160 --> 03:04:54,400
I believe last year,

2912
03:04:54,400 --> 03:04:59,360
that is a microscope that you push into
the soil and you can leave it there for,

2913
03:04:59,360 --> 03:05:02,120
for days, weeks, to monitor this shit. Um,

2914
03:05:02,120 --> 03:05:06,200
those are the kinds of tools that
we're gonna need to really advance our

2915
03:05:06,200 --> 03:05:09,240
understanding on how
valuable soil aggregates are.

2916
03:05:09,700 --> 03:05:14,680
And aggregates are a combination
of fungi, bacteria, protozoa, um,

2917
03:05:14,860 --> 03:05:19,840
the physical side of it, as well as
the chemical side of it. It is the,

2918
03:05:19,840 --> 03:05:24,280
is the, is the triple threat. It's
the physical, the chemical and the,

2919
03:05:24,280 --> 03:05:26,360
and the biological coming together.

2920
03:05:26,740 --> 03:05:30,880
And that's why the aggregates are
so important. Again, aggregates.

2921
03:05:30,880 --> 03:05:35,280
Let the oxygen down, lets the
CO2 out, back up to the plants.

2922
03:05:36,250 --> 03:05:39,760
It holds water. Um, it allows, uh,

2923
03:05:39,760 --> 03:05:42,320
water to infiltrate, um,

2924
03:05:42,390 --> 03:05:45,480
into the soil so it's not just
running off and creating erosion.

2925
03:05:46,170 --> 03:05:48,400
So aggregation is, is the,

2926
03:05:48,420 --> 03:05:51,240
the critical foundation to soil health.

2927
03:05:51,660 --> 03:05:56,400
You can't have aggregates without
good biology. It doesn't exist.

2928
03:05:56,400 --> 03:05:59,720
You have, you have compacted soil
because you don't have the biology,

2929
03:06:00,340 --> 03:06:04,080
but once you have the biology
and the organic matter in play,

2930
03:06:04,340 --> 03:06:07,120
you will begin to form
aggregates. So again,

2931
03:06:07,120 --> 03:06:11,360
that's why I went through this whole
process of vibrating shit and elec, uh,

2932
03:06:12,320 --> 03:06:16,600
exciting the electrons so they will
form these aggregates extremely quickly.

2933
03:06:16,870 --> 03:06:21,600
That's the whole purpose of taking
this biological compost and,

2934
03:06:22,090 --> 03:06:26,080
uh, manufacturing it, for
lack of better words, um,

2935
03:06:26,810 --> 03:06:31,200
so that you're getting a
faster response, um, in,

2936
03:06:31,250 --> 03:06:35,080
in building the soil health
and building those aggregates.

2937
03:06:36,480 --> 03:06:40,600
Fabulous. So, you know, it's,
it's not lost on me. And I,

2938
03:06:40,600 --> 03:06:42,240
I think this is one of the reasons why,

2939
03:06:42,330 --> 03:06:45,640
as I learned more about
cold compost extracts,

2940
03:06:45,660 --> 03:06:50,320
why I kept on pursuing this until I
figured out what this was enough to do a

2941
03:06:50,320 --> 03:06:51,153
show about it.

2942
03:06:51,270 --> 03:06:56,080
I really think that this is the
future of regenerative farming.

2943
03:06:56,910 --> 03:06:58,120
I think that, you know,

2944
03:06:58,170 --> 03:07:02,840
thermal compost has been a
great tool for the times.

2945
03:07:03,490 --> 03:07:03,900
Um,

2946
03:07:03,900 --> 03:07:08,760
but we are sophisticated enough
now to know how to work with

2947
03:07:08,760 --> 03:07:11,400
the microbes and to know that, you know,

2948
03:07:11,400 --> 03:07:14,040
our biggest role is to a,

2949
03:07:14,190 --> 03:07:18,880
stop fucking killing all the
microbes and then second, you know,

2950
03:07:18,880 --> 03:07:21,280
add microbes and help them,

2951
03:07:21,280 --> 03:07:25,120
help incubate them and make more
of them as much as possible.

2952
03:07:25,120 --> 03:07:29,240
Because we're not really the ones that
are gonna clean up the mess we've made.

2953
03:07:29,240 --> 03:07:31,400
It's really the microbes that are.

2954
03:07:31,780 --> 03:07:36,400
And so if we are dedicating
ourselves to not only working within

2955
03:07:37,740 --> 03:07:40,320
the natural forces of the earth,

2956
03:07:40,420 --> 03:07:45,360
but also to play our
role to maximize them,

2957
03:07:46,310 --> 03:07:49,080
I think that's the only
direction that makes sense.

2958
03:07:49,910 --> 03:07:51,920
Agreed. A hundred percent. I mean, we've,

2959
03:07:52,240 --> 03:07:54,840
we've learned how to break shit down now.

2960
03:07:54,840 --> 03:07:57,320
We gotta learn to put
things back together again,

2961
03:07:57,320 --> 03:08:00,520
the way nature would've
through biomimicry and not,

2962
03:08:00,520 --> 03:08:05,120
not through <laugh> our ego
if, for lack of better words.

2963
03:08:05,390 --> 03:08:09,320
I think, I think that is the best
word, man. Layton, thank you so much.

2964
03:08:09,320 --> 03:08:13,040
You know, um, I always
appreciate you, um, you know,

2965
03:08:13,040 --> 03:08:15,440
both our friendship and then
having you on this show,

2966
03:08:15,660 --> 03:08:20,480
but this was extra special today. And,
um, I, I appreciate you sharing these,

2967
03:08:20,480 --> 03:08:25,480
these insights. Some of them pretty
damn revolutionary <laugh>. And,

2968
03:08:25,480 --> 03:08:29,560
um, and also, you know, slogging
through three hours of this, I'm,

2969
03:08:29,660 --> 03:08:33,120
I'm exhausted. I'm not even the
one that was talking. So, um,

2970
03:08:33,130 --> 03:08:36,080
so thank you so much, man.
I, I really appreciate you.

2971
03:08:36,490 --> 03:08:38,160
Oh, I appreciate you too, Shango.

2972
03:08:38,160 --> 03:08:41,680
You've been doing a lot of hard work
for many years and you bring a very

2973
03:08:41,680 --> 03:08:42,960
important message to,

2974
03:08:43,170 --> 03:08:46,440
to the community as well as the
general population as a whole.

2975
03:08:46,900 --> 03:08:49,600
And so it's an honor, it's
a pleasure for me to, uh,

2976
03:08:49,600 --> 03:08:52,600
be able to share what I've learned
in my experiences with you and,

2977
03:08:52,600 --> 03:08:54,920
and your audience. So thank you. Right.

2978
03:08:54,920 --> 03:08:59,120
On. So if you want to,
uh, follow along with, uh,

2979
03:08:59,120 --> 03:09:04,040
latent's exploits, there are two ways
to do that. Um, the first way is, uh,

2980
03:09:04,040 --> 03:09:05,480
on Instagram. Uh,

2981
03:09:05,480 --> 03:09:09,280
you can follow his
Instagram profile at Kingdom

2982
03:09:10,510 --> 03:09:14,360
Aquaponics llc. And I'll
tell you straight up,

2983
03:09:14,360 --> 03:09:19,360
like he's not a huge social media guy cuz
he is usually filthy in the field. Um,

2984
03:09:19,360 --> 03:09:23,680
but he, he does post stuff
to, um, the Instagram.

2985
03:09:23,680 --> 03:09:27,680
It is always interesting.
And when he goes on tours,

2986
03:09:27,680 --> 03:09:29,600
you'll find all that
stuff and, you know, if,

2987
03:09:29,600 --> 03:09:31,840
if you have some reason
you wanna reach out, um,

2988
03:09:31,840 --> 03:09:36,360
he does check his Instagram messages.
So, so that's Kingdom Aquaponics llc.

2989
03:09:36,740 --> 03:09:41,640
And then also, uh, you could also
find latent every Thursday, uh,

2990
03:09:41,670 --> 03:09:46,520
co-hosting his own show on the
Future Cannabis Project on YouTube.

2991
03:09:47,090 --> 03:09:50,590
You can find more episodes of the
Shaping Fire podcast and subscribe to the

2992
03:09:50,590 --> 03:09:54,000
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you get, get your podcasts.

2993
03:09:54,210 --> 03:09:55,280
If you enjoyed the show,

2994
03:09:55,280 --> 03:09:58,000
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2995
03:09:58,520 --> 03:10:02,400
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2996
03:10:02,400 --> 03:10:04,680
enjoy it too. On the Shaping Fire website,

2997
03:10:04,680 --> 03:10:08,320
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2998
03:10:08,320 --> 03:10:12,600
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2999
03:10:12,600 --> 03:10:15,320
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3000
03:10:15,690 --> 03:10:17,200
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3001
03:10:17,200 --> 03:10:21,960
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3002
03:10:21,960 --> 03:10:23,720
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3003
03:10:24,010 --> 03:10:27,400
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3004
03:10:27,400 --> 03:10:29,200
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3005
03:10:29,550 --> 03:10:33,320
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3006
03:10:33,600 --> 03:10:36,960
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3007
03:10:37,070 --> 03:10:41,240
Thanks for listening to Shaping
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