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From the soil do we arise

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and it is the soil to which we

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return.

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This episode is a remembrance for my friend

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Doctor. Elaine Ingham the originator of the Soil

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Food Web an idea that stands at the

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core of regenerative agriculture.

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We published this episode originally

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nearly four years ago

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about half of you have subscribed since then

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so we're running it again as an homage

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to Doctor. Elaine but also because it's simply

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so damn good accurate and inspiring

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Doctor. Elaine Ingham spent her life teaching us

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all that soil is not dirt but is

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a living community.

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For decades, she helped farmers, gardeners,

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scientists understand that fertility does not begin with

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the fertilizer, it begins with biology.

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Through her research teaching and tireless advocacy, she

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showed that healthy soil is built by relationships.

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Bacteria feeding fungi, fungi feeding plants,

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organisms cycling nutrients in an intricate web that

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supports life above ground.

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Long before soil health became a common phrase,

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Elaine was already explaining that the key to

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resilient agriculture

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was not inputs, but ecosystems.

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Her work helped shift the conversation from domination

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of soil to partnerships with soil.

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She gave practical tools to farmers trying to

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rebuild depleted land,

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inspired compost movements around the world, and helped

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countless people realize that restoring soil biology could

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restore

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restore productivity,

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water retention, carbon storage, and ultimately hope for

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sustainable food systems.

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She also said fuck you to the industrial

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fertilizer corporations.

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She's told me in private about their rejection

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of her science and influence,

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of their attempts to suppress her work and

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scare her, of getting removed as a speaker

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because of petrochemical fertilizer event sponsors, and generally

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how she had to fight the entire weight

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of the modern industrial agricultural

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complex.

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Beyond the science,

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Elaine was known for enthusiasm

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and accessibility.

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She had a gift for turning complex microbiology

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into something could people could feel in their

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hands.

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She spoke with the conviction of someone who

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believed deeply that knowledge should empower people, not

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intimidate

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them. Many who met her remembered not just

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what she taught, but how passionately she believed

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that ordinary gardeners could become stewards of the

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living soil beneath their feet and how important

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that was.

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Elaine's legacy

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is not only in the papers published or

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institutions

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founded, it lives in healthier fields,

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in compost piles tended with intention,

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in farmers who learned to trust biology again,

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and in the growing global movement that sees

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soil not as a resource to extract from,

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but as a living partner to care for.

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And her legacy is in creating educators.

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Elaine was an instigator,

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an influencer,

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and a mentor of mentors.

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She helped us understand that if we take

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care of the soil, the soil will take

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care of us.

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You know, you know, she offered me a

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job after this interview, but I warmly declined

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because I'm was already so busy. But it

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was one of the most meaningful affirmations of

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my efforts in regenerative agriculture

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doctor Elaine will be deeply missed

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it is taken for granted nowadays that healthy

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soil is alive

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The ground we walk on is alive, but

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this was not the case just forty years

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ago when western agriculture thought of soil more

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like an inert robot.

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The soil food web methodology

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describes the community of organisms

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living all or part of their lives in

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the soil.

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It describes a complex system in the soil

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and how it interacts with the environment, plants,

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and animals.

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It describes the web of life from large

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animals all the way down to most basic

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microbiological

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level in soil and water.

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If you wanna really grok the Soil Food

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Web in an instant, do an image search

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for Soil Food Web and see any of

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the incredible illustrations that exist. Or check out

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the ShapingFire Instagram today for one of my

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favorites.

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The soil food web is at the very

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core of regenerative agriculture and not only will

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inform your cultivation efforts to help your plants

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thrive, but will inform humanity and how we

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may heal our planet before we make it

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uninhabitable for ourselves.

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If you want to learn about cannabis health

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cultivation and technique efficiently and good with cheer,

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I encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter.

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We'll send you new podcast episodes as they

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come out delivered right to your inbox along

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with commentary on a couple of the most

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important news items from the week and videos

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too. Don't rely on social media to let

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you know when a new episode is published.

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Sign up for the updates to make sure

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you don't miss an episode.

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Thanks for all the kind messages y'all sent

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about my brain injury issues the end of

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last year. I continue to get better though

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I'm still taking it slow for the moment.

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And thanks to the folks who put something

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in the tip jar thanks to Steven Mary

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Jane Suzanne Polly and Rancid forever

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if you too wanna give a little something

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something into the tip jar for the team

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you can do that by Venmo ing at

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shangolos

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as the cannabis market continues to compress and

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crumble over much of The United States there

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are fewer and fewer regenerative cannabis companies that

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have the budget for marketing

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if you know of a regenerative company who

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should be an advertiser on shaping fire please

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let them know and let me know too.

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It is by working together that regenerative cultivation

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expands. And we now offer a smaller entry

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package of commercial, so we're able to include

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folks with smaller budgets. Thanks a bunch.

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You are listening to Shaping Fire, and I

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am your host, Shango Los. We are in

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our tenth year of Shaping Fire, and this

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is episode one twenty six.

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My guest today is soil biologist, educator, and

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activist, doctor Elaine Ingham. Doctor Ingham uncovered the

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soil food web nearly four decades ago and

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has been pioneering research about the soil food

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web ever since.

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Widely recognized as the world's foremost soil biologist,

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she's passionate about empowering people to bring the

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soils in their communities back to life.

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Be clear that when I say doctor Ingham

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uncovered the soil food web, I mean she

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invented the soil food web, or rather the

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soil food web understanding of nature,

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and then continued to research and teach it

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even though she was getting aggressive pushback from

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the agriculture industry,

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which essentially made her an activist too,

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simply for trying to publicly describe how soil

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actually functions.

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Doctor Elaine's soil food web approach

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has been used to successfully restore the ecological

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functions of soils on more than 5,000,000 acres

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of farmland all over the world.

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Her professional scientific experience is long and impressive,

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and if you want to know it in

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detail, check out the Wikipedia page on her.

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Doctor Elaine also has established the Soil Food

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Web School to educate the next generation of

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soil biologists.

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The courses offered have been designed for people

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with or without a science background, making them

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accessible to individuals who wish to learn and

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begin a meaningful, impactful career in an area

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that will help to secure the survival of

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humans and other species.

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I've wanted to invite Elaine to be special

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guest on Shaping Fire for a few years

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now, but decided to wait until I myself

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had enough understanding of soil biology to ask

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her questions that would be of interest to

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you, the listener, and would be engaging for

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doctor Ingham too.

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As a ShapingFire listener you've learned soil science

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right alongside me the last ten years and

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you're going to love today's episode. And Doctor.

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Ingham says she does too.

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Today's episode is not an introduction to the

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soil food web. If this perspective is new

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to you, when you are done here, I

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recommend you jump over to YouTube and watch

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one of the many videos that explain the

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basics of the Soil Food Web model. Today's

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episode is a series of discussion lines that

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have arisen out of me actually using the

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food web insights to grow cannabis and my

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discussions with other regenerative growers.

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During the first set, we discussed the use

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of indigenous microorganisms

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to optimize plant resilience and the overlap between

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the soil food web and the water food

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web and what that means for growing cannabis.

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In the second set, we talk about sterile

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growing environments,

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beneficial insects as both garden defense and food

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web antagonist,

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and how to get cocoa coir pots as

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biologically active as possible.

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Finally, we finished the episode in set three

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with a discussion of the timely use of

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aerated compost teas and compost extracts and bringing

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the soil food web techniques indoors for cultivation.

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All that today on Shaping Fire episode one

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twenty six.

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Welcome to Shaping Fire, doctor Elaine.

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I'm I'm very happy to be here. This

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is gonna be fun. Yeah. I'm so glad

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to finally have you on the show.

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So, you know, many of us aspire to

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strengthen every level of the soil food web

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in our garden. So, you know, we can

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most effectively play its melody.

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And this often includes

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the use of incubated indigenous microorganisms

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known by most folks as IMOs.

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But cannabis plants are not indigenous to many

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of the regions of the world where we

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cultivate it.

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Are there ways to make the cannabis plants

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feel more at home in the environments where

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naturally they never establish themselves? Like, how how

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can we make non indigenous plants that we

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grow connect more fully with the local biology?

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We're we're actually doing a really good job

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of doing that already.

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The damage that we do to our soil

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when we till it, when we put out

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these salts,

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the inorganic fertilizers are all salts,

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and that's definitely

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playing havoc

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with those microorganisms

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that might have,

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prevented

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cannabis from being able to grow in their

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particular system.

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So we're already doing the things to a

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great deal that would allow or would,

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select for the for cannabis.

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You know, so as human beings,

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change things, we alter we are making a

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better and better environment

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for cannabis. And so we're already

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making things better to grow cannabis because it

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it is a plant that needs somewhere between,

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like, a point five ratio of fungi to

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bacteria,

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up to maybe one to one equal biomass

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of bacteria and fungi. And then there are

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values that we're looking at, you know, does

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your does cannabis need at least

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135

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of bacteria and fungi?

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Or can,

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it's gonna is it actually gonna do better

274
00:10:48,335 --> 00:10:50,335
if we have a little more bacteria? So

275
00:10:50,335 --> 00:10:52,894
the bacteria are up at 400 micrograms per

276
00:10:52,894 --> 00:10:55,855
gram. Whereas the fungi are at half or,

277
00:10:55,855 --> 00:10:56,514
you know,

278
00:10:56,894 --> 00:10:57,875
even less

279
00:10:58,179 --> 00:11:00,840
than that and will depends on,

280
00:11:01,379 --> 00:11:02,120
on the

281
00:11:02,660 --> 00:11:05,460
species or the subspecies of cannabis that you're

282
00:11:05,460 --> 00:11:07,240
growing as well. So

283
00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:10,875
I think we're already doing everything necessary to

284
00:11:11,115 --> 00:11:11,855
grow cannabis

285
00:11:12,154 --> 00:11:13,215
all over the world.

286
00:11:13,835 --> 00:11:16,235
Your answer is surprising. And if I understand

287
00:11:16,235 --> 00:11:19,034
it correctly, disheartening because what I think you

288
00:11:19,034 --> 00:11:19,934
just said is,

289
00:11:21,195 --> 00:11:24,070
because we are eroding the strength of our

290
00:11:24,070 --> 00:11:27,750
soil globally, it has less defense mechanisms and

291
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:28,490
is therefore,

292
00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:33,690
creating a wider environment for cannabis because

293
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:36,470
we're destroying the soil. You know, I I

294
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:38,865
is that about what you said? That's really

295
00:11:38,865 --> 00:11:40,565
basically what I said. Gosh.

296
00:11:41,024 --> 00:11:41,524
Yeah.

297
00:11:42,065 --> 00:11:42,565
Alright.

298
00:11:43,024 --> 00:11:45,825
Great for cannabis growers, but not so great

299
00:11:45,825 --> 00:11:47,365
if you wanna be growing

300
00:11:47,745 --> 00:11:48,884
grapevines or

301
00:11:49,264 --> 00:11:52,299
shrubs or different kinds of, you know, the

302
00:11:52,299 --> 00:11:55,579
highly productive grass species, for example. Yeah. Or

303
00:11:55,579 --> 00:11:58,220
or, you know, food that has nutrition and

304
00:11:58,220 --> 00:11:59,740
and all the other things that we need

305
00:11:59,740 --> 00:12:03,579
to survive. Mhmm. Gosh. Alright. So, I'm gonna,

306
00:12:04,174 --> 00:12:04,674
slightly

307
00:12:05,134 --> 00:12:07,375
change the question then to to tease out

308
00:12:07,375 --> 00:12:09,794
something else. So so even though,

309
00:12:10,254 --> 00:12:11,694
we humans, by,

310
00:12:12,174 --> 00:12:14,894
eroding and degrading the soil are actually making

311
00:12:14,894 --> 00:12:16,514
it more appropriate for cannabis,

312
00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:21,139
When we do when we do bring cannabis

313
00:12:21,139 --> 00:12:22,440
plants into areas

314
00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:23,320
where,

315
00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:26,579
perhaps the the weather is something that they're

316
00:12:26,579 --> 00:12:28,759
not used to or the indigenous microorganisms

317
00:12:29,299 --> 00:12:31,285
are not what they're used to, even though

318
00:12:31,285 --> 00:12:34,245
there is eroded soil and so we're getting

319
00:12:34,245 --> 00:12:35,925
the, you know, the the pH and the

320
00:12:35,925 --> 00:12:38,184
parts per million that might be more appropriate

321
00:12:38,565 --> 00:12:41,205
for cannabis growing. Are there other things that

322
00:12:41,205 --> 00:12:42,105
we can do

323
00:12:42,485 --> 00:12:43,384
to decrease,

324
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:48,980
you know, weather and and transport shock for

325
00:12:49,039 --> 00:12:51,919
plants? Because so often, cultivators are moving their

326
00:12:51,919 --> 00:12:54,480
plants multiple times from from a from a

327
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,679
nursery to a grow out greenhouse and then

328
00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,139
finally into the ground.

329
00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:00,545
Mhmm. And,

330
00:13:01,285 --> 00:13:03,365
absolutely, I think there would be things we

331
00:13:03,365 --> 00:13:06,165
could do to make it easier on the

332
00:13:06,165 --> 00:13:07,225
specific plants,

333
00:13:08,725 --> 00:13:12,004
in that process of dealing a root with

334
00:13:12,004 --> 00:13:14,165
a root system that's getting bigger and bigger

335
00:13:14,165 --> 00:13:14,825
and bigger.

336
00:13:16,509 --> 00:13:18,910
What we really wanna do is give it

337
00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:19,889
depth because

338
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:23,090
properly grown out in the real world,

339
00:13:23,710 --> 00:13:24,690
cannabis usually

340
00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:25,730
will,

341
00:13:26,509 --> 00:13:29,384
broaden those root systems, will be, you know,

342
00:13:29,384 --> 00:13:29,884
certain

343
00:13:30,264 --> 00:13:30,764
diameter

344
00:13:31,305 --> 00:13:34,264
from around those, around the main stems. But

345
00:13:34,264 --> 00:13:37,805
then those roots tend to grow, should grow

346
00:13:38,185 --> 00:13:41,384
down. They're looking for water that that they

347
00:13:41,384 --> 00:13:42,205
have to have

348
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,959
in the dry seasons of the year. And

349
00:13:45,959 --> 00:13:48,759
so if they've got proper structure built in

350
00:13:48,759 --> 00:13:50,440
the soil, if they have the bacteria and

351
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:51,339
fungi present

352
00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:53,720
that will build that kind of structure, the

353
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,200
protozoa, the nematodes that will help to build

354
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:56,940
that structure,

355
00:13:57,634 --> 00:13:59,235
then the roots of your plants will go

356
00:13:59,235 --> 00:14:00,455
down quite deep.

357
00:14:00,835 --> 00:14:02,294
And, you know, we see,

358
00:14:02,674 --> 00:14:06,054
cannabis with root systems down at 12 feet,

359
00:14:06,434 --> 00:14:08,214
15 feet, 20 feet,

360
00:14:08,595 --> 00:14:11,654
depending, I'm I think, on the the cultivars,

361
00:14:11,794 --> 00:14:12,855
the type of

362
00:14:13,389 --> 00:14:14,690
cannabis that you're growing.

363
00:14:15,149 --> 00:14:15,649
So

364
00:14:16,029 --> 00:14:18,129
when we're thinking about transferring

365
00:14:18,509 --> 00:14:21,870
from something that grew up in the, you

366
00:14:21,870 --> 00:14:24,049
know, little the small containers

367
00:14:24,509 --> 00:14:26,350
in the greenhouse and now we're gonna put

368
00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:27,970
them into larger containers,

369
00:14:28,575 --> 00:14:29,315
It's not

370
00:14:29,695 --> 00:14:30,195
diameter

371
00:14:30,735 --> 00:14:33,054
of the container that you wanna think about.

372
00:14:33,054 --> 00:14:34,274
It's the height

373
00:14:34,894 --> 00:14:35,554
of the

374
00:14:37,295 --> 00:14:37,795
growing

375
00:14:38,735 --> 00:14:40,654
the container that you're going to be growing

376
00:14:40,654 --> 00:14:41,154
that

377
00:14:42,199 --> 00:14:45,559
cannabis in. Mhmm. Because we wanna mimic, we

378
00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:46,699
wanna have

379
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,519
things be more like those plants are used

380
00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:52,839
to out in the real world. And and

381
00:14:52,839 --> 00:14:53,899
they have a drive

382
00:14:54,475 --> 00:14:57,434
to get those root systems deep. I'm sure

383
00:14:57,434 --> 00:14:59,595
almost everybody is, you know, when they've pulled

384
00:14:59,595 --> 00:15:02,075
up a cannabis plant and they look at

385
00:15:02,075 --> 00:15:05,195
the bottom and they see the roots just

386
00:15:05,195 --> 00:15:06,654
going in circles,

387
00:15:07,195 --> 00:15:08,975
against the bottom of the pot,

388
00:15:09,419 --> 00:15:10,720
that is not good

389
00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:14,399
for the plant. You have developed, typically,

390
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:16,559
have developed an anaerobic

391
00:15:17,019 --> 00:15:20,559
condition in those root systems, trying to escape,

392
00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:22,000
trying to get down

393
00:15:22,355 --> 00:15:25,235
and deeper into the soil, you've made an

394
00:15:25,235 --> 00:15:27,014
anaerobic little cubby area

395
00:15:27,394 --> 00:15:30,855
that will grow diseases and pests incredibly well.

396
00:15:31,235 --> 00:15:33,414
Not gonna grow the right sets of microorganisms

397
00:15:33,954 --> 00:15:35,014
for the cannabis.

398
00:15:36,009 --> 00:15:37,389
Cannabis root systems,

399
00:15:37,929 --> 00:15:38,429
obligately

400
00:15:38,809 --> 00:15:39,309
aerobic.

401
00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:42,970
You've gotta have oxygen in there or they're

402
00:15:42,970 --> 00:15:44,269
gonna succumb to

403
00:15:44,970 --> 00:15:46,350
a number of different stresses.

404
00:15:48,254 --> 00:15:49,875
Clearly, growing in,

405
00:15:50,575 --> 00:15:52,495
in the earth is best so that those

406
00:15:52,495 --> 00:15:55,955
those roots can reach far and participate in

407
00:15:56,014 --> 00:15:58,335
whatever's happening in the soil food web at

408
00:15:58,335 --> 00:15:59,394
that depth plus,

409
00:16:00,174 --> 00:16:01,315
get their own water.

410
00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:05,639
Is there is there anything that we can

411
00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:06,139
do,

412
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,320
as as growers? Because so many of us

413
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,220
grow in containers that might be somewhere between,

414
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:15,019
you know, twenty, fifty, or up to 300

415
00:16:15,514 --> 00:16:18,475
gallon pots, but they still don't go very

416
00:16:18,475 --> 00:16:21,514
deep. They usually expand out wider Mhmm. Instead

417
00:16:21,514 --> 00:16:22,575
of getting deeper.

418
00:16:22,955 --> 00:16:23,774
And so,

419
00:16:25,835 --> 00:16:28,014
is there anything that we can do to

420
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:30,970
to help the roots from becoming,

421
00:16:31,750 --> 00:16:32,850
you know,

422
00:16:33,190 --> 00:16:35,449
you know, anaerobic at the bottom, for example?

423
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:37,669
Anything, like, as simple as as making sure

424
00:16:37,669 --> 00:16:39,990
to use linen pots, which let some air

425
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:41,625
go through go through, or

426
00:16:42,105 --> 00:16:43,544
is there is there anything that we can

427
00:16:43,544 --> 00:16:45,485
do out of that bad situation?

428
00:16:46,264 --> 00:16:46,585
Yeah. I

429
00:16:47,144 --> 00:16:50,184
if we get the food web into that

430
00:16:50,184 --> 00:16:50,684
soil

431
00:16:51,065 --> 00:16:53,304
such that there's a lot of nutrient cycling,

432
00:16:53,304 --> 00:16:54,684
there's a lot of protection,

433
00:16:55,139 --> 00:16:57,559
there's a lot of building structures, so water

434
00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:00,340
is held right at the top of that

435
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:00,840
interface

436
00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:04,740
going down. So the plant is getting all

437
00:17:04,740 --> 00:17:06,680
the things it needs from

438
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:08,384
a shallower pot.

439
00:17:09,345 --> 00:17:11,984
We could maybe reduce that stress. Mhmm.

440
00:17:12,384 --> 00:17:12,884
And

441
00:17:13,184 --> 00:17:15,204
so trying some of this out and finding

442
00:17:15,265 --> 00:17:17,744
out, okay, how wide does something have to

443
00:17:17,744 --> 00:17:20,244
be versus the depth that it's going.

444
00:17:20,945 --> 00:17:21,445
And

445
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,400
and that's that's that's just research that hasn't

446
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,960
been done. I know a number of labs

447
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,599
have said, oh, yeah. We should do that.

448
00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:31,859
But I haven't seen any data back, and,

449
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,400
it's been a while since I've actually been,

450
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:35,859
growing any cannabis.

451
00:17:36,815 --> 00:17:38,595
Just too many other things happening.

452
00:17:38,974 --> 00:17:39,474
Totally.

453
00:17:40,894 --> 00:17:42,674
I like what you said about, you know,

454
00:17:43,214 --> 00:17:45,134
we will help the root system out by

455
00:17:45,134 --> 00:17:46,515
making sure it's participating

456
00:17:46,974 --> 00:17:49,315
as much in the soil food web.

457
00:17:49,619 --> 00:17:52,180
And just briefly on the last episode, I'd

458
00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:54,680
spoke with one of your students, Andy Marsh,

459
00:17:55,059 --> 00:17:57,140
and and and she was talking about,

460
00:17:57,700 --> 00:17:58,519
you know, biological

461
00:17:58,900 --> 00:17:59,400
inoculants,

462
00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:03,559
not of particular nutrition, but of

463
00:18:04,244 --> 00:18:05,945
residence of the rhizosphere.

464
00:18:07,125 --> 00:18:08,025
Do you have,

465
00:18:08,484 --> 00:18:09,865
you know, any suggestions

466
00:18:10,164 --> 00:18:11,065
for inoculating,

467
00:18:12,085 --> 00:18:13,945
our soil with actual,

468
00:18:14,404 --> 00:18:17,144
you know, living beings instead of just nutrition?

469
00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:21,089
Well, that's really what we're talking about when

470
00:18:21,089 --> 00:18:22,230
we're we're discussing,

471
00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:26,769
soil biology. It's the organisms going it's the

472
00:18:26,769 --> 00:18:27,269
living

473
00:18:27,809 --> 00:18:29,109
part of that soil,

474
00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:32,934
that we're concerned about because it's the living

475
00:18:32,934 --> 00:18:35,914
organisms, those things doing their jobs

476
00:18:36,215 --> 00:18:38,075
so you don't have to do them,

477
00:18:39,414 --> 00:18:41,255
is really what we're trying to do. We

478
00:18:41,255 --> 00:18:42,955
wanna understand the function

479
00:18:43,414 --> 00:18:44,955
of all these different microorganisms

480
00:18:45,335 --> 00:18:47,480
in the soil and, you know, most

481
00:18:48,099 --> 00:18:50,099
people have a hard time believing that there

482
00:18:50,099 --> 00:18:52,819
is that many species of bacteria and species

483
00:18:52,819 --> 00:18:56,019
of fungi. And in both cases, bacteria and

484
00:18:56,019 --> 00:18:58,759
fungi were up in the millions,

485
00:18:59,484 --> 00:19:01,024
hundreds of millions

486
00:19:01,404 --> 00:19:02,544
of individual

487
00:19:02,845 --> 00:19:04,384
species, and they're different

488
00:19:05,005 --> 00:19:06,065
in different ecosystems.

489
00:19:07,085 --> 00:19:07,585
So

490
00:19:08,365 --> 00:19:09,105
we wanna

491
00:19:09,884 --> 00:19:10,384
obtain

492
00:19:12,329 --> 00:19:15,130
a, community of bacteria and of fungi and

493
00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:17,289
of protozoa and nematodes. We want them all

494
00:19:17,289 --> 00:19:18,349
to be good guys.

495
00:19:18,730 --> 00:19:20,569
And I know some people cringe when I

496
00:19:20,569 --> 00:19:22,589
don't use technical scientific

497
00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:25,414
terms, but I think it makes more sense

498
00:19:25,414 --> 00:19:26,795
to say, We want the beneficials

499
00:19:27,414 --> 00:19:29,335
that will help your plant grow. And where

500
00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:30,934
are you gonna go out there and find

501
00:19:30,934 --> 00:19:33,654
them? And find them for the biome that

502
00:19:33,654 --> 00:19:35,835
you're already living in.

503
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:39,430
Someday, that cannabis plant is going to be

504
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:39,930
planted

505
00:19:40,309 --> 00:19:40,809
outside,

506
00:19:41,349 --> 00:19:43,509
and it's gonna have to deal with the

507
00:19:43,509 --> 00:19:44,009
conditions

508
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:46,009
of a normal summer

509
00:19:46,869 --> 00:19:48,884
in whatever part of the world you're in.

510
00:19:49,045 --> 00:19:50,904
And so you wanna make certain

511
00:19:51,285 --> 00:19:53,065
they are the maximum protection

512
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:55,704
from the species, subspecies

513
00:19:56,404 --> 00:19:59,525
of bacteria and fungi, protozoa, and nematodes, and

514
00:19:59,525 --> 00:20:02,404
micro arthropods, and earthworms, and incatrades. And I

515
00:20:02,404 --> 00:20:05,430
could keep going, but I lose most people

516
00:20:05,490 --> 00:20:07,809
typically about in there. Wait a minute. I

517
00:20:07,809 --> 00:20:09,890
didn't know there were that many different types

518
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:12,210
of yeah. There are. And you need them

519
00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:15,650
all. Your plant needs them all to do

520
00:20:15,650 --> 00:20:17,750
the jobs that you otherwise

521
00:20:18,265 --> 00:20:20,184
are gonna get stuck doing if you don't

522
00:20:20,184 --> 00:20:22,204
have your willing organic workers

523
00:20:22,664 --> 00:20:23,644
in that soil

524
00:20:24,105 --> 00:20:27,325
for your plant. So we wanna maximize diversity.

525
00:20:27,544 --> 00:20:30,025
How do you do that? We're gonna have

526
00:20:30,025 --> 00:20:31,325
you go out into

527
00:20:31,785 --> 00:20:33,244
the area around

528
00:20:34,019 --> 00:20:35,720
where you're living,

529
00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:38,820
where you're gonna be planting the cannabis for,

530
00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:41,700
you know, those cannabis that are gonna display

531
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:42,440
the particular

532
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:44,680
flavors or tastes.

533
00:20:46,544 --> 00:20:48,944
You know, what all is going to be

534
00:20:48,944 --> 00:20:50,884
in that, cannabis plant,

535
00:20:51,345 --> 00:20:53,984
you're gonna wanna maximize diversity. So you go

536
00:20:53,984 --> 00:20:55,984
out with your collection bag, and it doesn't

537
00:20:55,984 --> 00:20:57,125
have to be real large.

538
00:20:57,869 --> 00:20:59,250
It could be a little Ziploc

539
00:20:59,710 --> 00:21:02,049
sandwich size or, you know, quart size,

540
00:21:04,589 --> 00:21:05,089
baggy.

541
00:21:05,789 --> 00:21:07,470
And you're going to take two or three

542
00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:07,970
pinches

543
00:21:08,589 --> 00:21:09,089
of

544
00:21:09,390 --> 00:21:12,130
this area right around this fungal,

545
00:21:12,855 --> 00:21:14,934
you know, mushroom. This looks like it could

546
00:21:14,934 --> 00:21:16,855
be really interesting. So let's put some of

547
00:21:16,855 --> 00:21:17,835
that in there because

548
00:21:18,134 --> 00:21:19,755
that could be really beneficial.

549
00:21:20,134 --> 00:21:22,055
Well, let's go over here and take a

550
00:21:22,055 --> 00:21:23,595
couple of teaspoonfuls

551
00:21:23,894 --> 00:21:25,974
and go over there. And every time you

552
00:21:25,974 --> 00:21:26,795
see variation,

553
00:21:27,679 --> 00:21:29,539
different plants, different

554
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,859
microorganisms, you know,

555
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,859
most people don't understand that

556
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,099
a mushroom is individual

557
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,359
strands of fungal hyphae. The individual strands you

558
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,095
cannot see with your eyes. But that mushroom

559
00:21:42,634 --> 00:21:44,714
you definitely will be able to see with

560
00:21:44,714 --> 00:21:45,375
your eyes.

561
00:21:45,674 --> 00:21:46,335
And so

562
00:21:46,954 --> 00:21:47,775
you might wanna

563
00:21:48,234 --> 00:21:50,075
make certain that you know who the good

564
00:21:50,075 --> 00:21:53,115
guy mushrooms are and take samples from around

565
00:21:53,115 --> 00:21:53,615
their

566
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,779
connection with the soil,

567
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,380
and leave alone the things, the armillarias,

568
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,079
the things that could be pathogens or pests.

569
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:05,640
So a little bit of studying up on

570
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:06,920
what are the good guys and what are

571
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,859
the bad guys that you can determine

572
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,684
based just on morphology. What do they look

573
00:22:11,684 --> 00:22:14,025
like? And so you're gonna be out collecting

574
00:22:14,085 --> 00:22:15,144
a lot of materials.

575
00:22:15,605 --> 00:22:17,945
Now, do you collect those in the springtime

576
00:22:18,005 --> 00:22:19,945
or in the summer or in the fall?

577
00:22:20,005 --> 00:22:21,625
And the answer to that is yes.

578
00:22:22,269 --> 00:22:24,990
Because it's diversity, and there'll be different sets

579
00:22:24,990 --> 00:22:27,410
of species that are awake and functioning

580
00:22:28,109 --> 00:22:30,049
at different times of the year.

581
00:22:30,349 --> 00:22:32,769
And you wanna get them all inoculated

582
00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:35,089
into your compost.

583
00:22:36,245 --> 00:22:37,465
Then let those organisms

584
00:22:37,845 --> 00:22:40,025
grow up that are beneficials. We,

585
00:22:41,525 --> 00:22:43,225
keep our compost piles

586
00:22:43,684 --> 00:22:44,184
aerobic

587
00:22:44,725 --> 00:22:46,184
because that selects

588
00:22:46,805 --> 00:22:47,705
for mostly

589
00:22:48,085 --> 00:22:50,184
just the beneficial microorganisms.

590
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:55,119
So the disease causers, the problem organisms,

591
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:57,180
they like to be there in the root

592
00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:57,680
bound

593
00:22:58,059 --> 00:23:01,360
pot because it's perfect with that low oxygen

594
00:23:01,420 --> 00:23:01,920
concentration.

595
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,420
If we keep that soil well structured by

596
00:23:05,420 --> 00:23:05,920
bacteria

597
00:23:06,365 --> 00:23:09,184
and fungi and protozoan nematodes and everything else,

598
00:23:09,244 --> 00:23:13,424
making hallways and passageways and building condominium housing,

599
00:23:13,805 --> 00:23:14,305
building

600
00:23:14,765 --> 00:23:15,825
large hotels,

601
00:23:16,205 --> 00:23:17,265
building large

602
00:23:20,059 --> 00:23:20,559
structures

603
00:23:21,019 --> 00:23:23,500
in the soil so oxygen can move through

604
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:27,119
very rapidly, so water infiltrates and gets held

605
00:23:27,660 --> 00:23:30,700
in that soil. You never allow leaching to

606
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:31,200
occur

607
00:23:31,580 --> 00:23:33,359
because you need all those nutrients,

608
00:23:34,214 --> 00:23:35,894
either in a couple weeks or maybe in

609
00:23:35,894 --> 00:23:37,755
another month or maybe next spring.

610
00:23:38,214 --> 00:23:40,295
So we wanna make sure we're holding on

611
00:23:40,295 --> 00:23:41,674
to all of these things

612
00:23:42,054 --> 00:23:44,295
by making sure we we have a huge

613
00:23:44,295 --> 00:23:44,795
diversity

614
00:23:45,174 --> 00:23:47,680
of all the organisms that grow in the

615
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,240
springtime, all the organisms that grow in the

616
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,660
summer. And they're fairly different,

617
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:55,380
what is actually growing and functioning,

618
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,700
but they take over

619
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:58,660
functions

620
00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:02,984
that somebody else was doing in the soil

621
00:24:02,984 --> 00:24:05,164
but they did the work better

622
00:24:05,704 --> 00:24:06,204
at,

623
00:24:06,984 --> 00:24:10,984
you know, 15 degrees Fahrenheit or 20 degrees

624
00:24:10,984 --> 00:24:13,625
Fahrenheit or, you know, so as you go

625
00:24:13,625 --> 00:24:14,125
through

626
00:24:14,569 --> 00:24:17,230
changes in temperature and moisture,

627
00:24:18,410 --> 00:24:19,470
oxygen concentrations,

628
00:24:19,849 --> 00:24:20,990
all of those things,

629
00:24:21,369 --> 00:24:23,309
you wanna make sure you have the organisms

630
00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:25,609
that will be there to do the jobs

631
00:24:25,609 --> 00:24:26,269
for you.

632
00:24:26,809 --> 00:24:29,309
So making certain that you're inoculating

633
00:24:30,545 --> 00:24:31,045
indigenous

634
00:24:31,825 --> 00:24:34,724
local things, it is just laughable

635
00:24:35,585 --> 00:24:38,625
to have somebody hand you a jug of

636
00:24:38,625 --> 00:24:39,125
bugs

637
00:24:39,585 --> 00:24:41,845
and say, these are the best microorganisms

638
00:24:42,384 --> 00:24:44,304
we've ever found in the soil. What do

639
00:24:44,304 --> 00:24:45,444
you mean by that?

640
00:24:46,019 --> 00:24:47,720
That who is regarding

641
00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:51,299
those five species in there as being the

642
00:24:51,299 --> 00:24:51,799
best

643
00:24:52,259 --> 00:24:54,840
according to what set of

644
00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:55,960
considerations?

645
00:24:57,140 --> 00:24:58,694
Are they best at taking up

646
00:24:59,575 --> 00:25:01,654
carbon dioxide? Are they best at taking up

647
00:25:01,654 --> 00:25:03,994
nitrate? Are they the best at making ammonium?

648
00:25:04,375 --> 00:25:05,755
What does your plant need?

649
00:25:06,694 --> 00:25:08,154
Cannabis needs a balance,

650
00:25:08,694 --> 00:25:11,514
pretty much an equal balance of ammonium

651
00:25:12,774 --> 00:25:13,095
and,

652
00:25:13,575 --> 00:25:14,075
nitrate.

653
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:17,150
And so we want an equal amount

654
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:20,269
of biomass of bacteria as a fungi.

655
00:25:21,289 --> 00:25:21,789
And

656
00:25:22,569 --> 00:25:24,250
when we get talking a little bit later,

657
00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:26,589
I'll bring up the subject of succession

658
00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:29,230
because that's going to be a big

659
00:25:31,065 --> 00:25:33,785
determinant of what you're going to do with

660
00:25:33,785 --> 00:25:35,325
different kinds of cannabis

661
00:25:36,025 --> 00:25:38,045
to get the product that you want.

662
00:25:39,144 --> 00:25:40,585
I have two follow ups. I'm gonna ask

663
00:25:40,585 --> 00:25:41,785
them at the same time because I have

664
00:25:41,785 --> 00:25:43,545
a feeling that you are likely to weave

665
00:25:43,545 --> 00:25:44,285
them together.

666
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,660
The first follow-up is,

667
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,259
we're big fans of having, you know, biologically

668
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,880
active compost piles here to pull from for

669
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,940
all sorts of reasons.

670
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,359
But I also know that my brethren in

671
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:57,980
cannabis love to cut corners.

672
00:25:58,505 --> 00:26:00,845
And so, I can very much imagine,

673
00:26:02,105 --> 00:26:05,164
cultivators taking the collected inoculant

674
00:26:06,025 --> 00:26:08,904
and instead of putting it into their compost

675
00:26:08,904 --> 00:26:09,965
pile, instead,

676
00:26:10,505 --> 00:26:13,805
just putting it right into their their containers.

677
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,080
And so my first part of the question

678
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:16,580
is,

679
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,740
is there, a specific

680
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,500
benefit to inoculating

681
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,039
the compost pile first even though the process

682
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:24,880
is gonna take longer? Is there a is

683
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,759
there a real extra win for having it

684
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:30,115
be in the compost pile first? And then

685
00:26:30,194 --> 00:26:32,595
Absolutely. And then second, after you do the

686
00:26:32,595 --> 00:26:34,534
collection but before you do the inoculation,

687
00:26:35,394 --> 00:26:39,234
do you recommend just taking the the collected

688
00:26:39,234 --> 00:26:41,714
matter and just, you know, taking it over

689
00:26:41,714 --> 00:26:43,315
to your compost pile and just place it

690
00:26:43,315 --> 00:26:45,095
in there? Or do you recommend

691
00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:45,820
a,

692
00:26:46,619 --> 00:26:49,820
an an oxygen incubation, like, with an aerated

693
00:26:49,820 --> 00:26:52,480
tea to kinda build up the population first?

694
00:26:54,059 --> 00:26:54,799
We mostly,

695
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:58,380
put the organisms directly into the compost pile.

696
00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:01,585
Mhmm. Because while we want active organisms,

697
00:27:03,164 --> 00:27:04,464
we want to

698
00:27:04,765 --> 00:27:07,424
constrain the conditions in that pile,

699
00:27:07,804 --> 00:27:09,664
so we're selecting for just the beneficials.

700
00:27:10,365 --> 00:27:12,444
So you don't ever want your pile to

701
00:27:12,444 --> 00:27:13,184
go anaerobic.

702
00:27:13,829 --> 00:27:16,150
The instant you start to smell bad smells

703
00:27:16,150 --> 00:27:18,309
coming out of that pile or, you know,

704
00:27:18,309 --> 00:27:21,429
funky kind of, you know, the ammonia smell,

705
00:27:21,429 --> 00:27:21,929
the,

706
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:25,429
rotten egg kind of smell mixed together. How

707
00:27:25,429 --> 00:27:26,890
do you describe that?

708
00:27:27,434 --> 00:27:30,315
But you know by smelling it that something's

709
00:27:30,315 --> 00:27:32,315
going anaerobic in there, and that means you

710
00:27:32,315 --> 00:27:34,815
have to turn. You need to get oxygen

711
00:27:34,875 --> 00:27:35,454
in there.

712
00:27:35,755 --> 00:27:37,914
If you're too close you know, if you

713
00:27:37,914 --> 00:27:38,734
haven't gotten

714
00:27:39,115 --> 00:27:40,474
up to 131

715
00:27:40,474 --> 00:27:41,375
degrees Fahrenheit

716
00:27:42,179 --> 00:27:44,339
for a full three days, then, you know,

717
00:27:44,339 --> 00:27:46,119
you've gotta kinda eke along,

718
00:27:46,659 --> 00:27:48,500
because you really don't wanna turn it until

719
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:49,559
you're you've gotten

720
00:27:49,940 --> 00:27:50,839
that preventative

721
00:27:51,619 --> 00:27:53,940
kind of medicine for the bad guys are

722
00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:55,480
gonna get killed by the heat.

723
00:27:56,595 --> 00:27:59,174
We also wanna make sure there's no anaerobic

724
00:27:59,315 --> 00:27:59,815
conditions.

725
00:28:00,195 --> 00:28:02,195
So what you might do there where you

726
00:28:02,195 --> 00:28:04,355
can oh, this is smelliness. Only day two

727
00:28:04,355 --> 00:28:06,214
and I've gotta wait till day three

728
00:28:06,515 --> 00:28:07,414
to turn it.

729
00:28:08,659 --> 00:28:10,259
Hasn't been hot enough long enough to kill

730
00:28:10,259 --> 00:28:13,000
the human pathogens, plant pathogens, yada yada yada.

731
00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:15,940
What you'll do instead is take, like a

732
00:28:15,940 --> 00:28:17,960
PVC pipe or a metal rod,

733
00:28:18,659 --> 00:28:20,980
you know, not a lot of thickness to

734
00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:21,480
the

735
00:28:22,035 --> 00:28:24,115
hole maker, and you're gonna take that and

736
00:28:24,115 --> 00:28:26,455
push it down through your compost pile,

737
00:28:26,994 --> 00:28:29,955
pull it back up because that's going to

738
00:28:29,955 --> 00:28:31,095
leave a hole

739
00:28:31,634 --> 00:28:33,634
all the way down to the bottom of

740
00:28:33,634 --> 00:28:36,455
your compost pile, bringing oxygen

741
00:28:36,940 --> 00:28:38,960
back into the system without

742
00:28:39,340 --> 00:28:39,840
turning

743
00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:41,200
the whole pile.

744
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:44,460
When you've gotten to 131,

745
00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:45,660
over 131

746
00:28:45,660 --> 00:28:46,160
degrees

747
00:28:46,460 --> 00:28:46,960
Fahrenheit,

748
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:49,440
over 55 degrees Celsius,

749
00:28:51,735 --> 00:28:52,875
for three days.

750
00:28:53,494 --> 00:28:55,355
Then you turn with the pitchfork

751
00:28:55,815 --> 00:28:58,055
and get that all aerated up. And there

752
00:28:58,055 --> 00:29:01,275
is a very specific way we take the

753
00:29:01,414 --> 00:29:03,994
hot middle and put it on the bottom

754
00:29:04,375 --> 00:29:06,869
of the pile when you start to turn.

755
00:29:07,329 --> 00:29:08,630
And what was

756
00:29:09,170 --> 00:29:11,410
in the cold top part of the pile,

757
00:29:11,410 --> 00:29:12,630
it goes into the middle.

758
00:29:13,410 --> 00:29:15,569
So that that's the part of the pile

759
00:29:15,569 --> 00:29:16,869
that's gonna have,

760
00:29:17,410 --> 00:29:17,910
killing

761
00:29:18,434 --> 00:29:20,134
the disease causing organisms

762
00:29:20,514 --> 00:29:21,654
for part two,

763
00:29:21,954 --> 00:29:24,434
and then the bottom part of the first

764
00:29:24,434 --> 00:29:26,755
pile goes on the top. And so you

765
00:29:26,755 --> 00:29:29,474
always turn in the same fashion so you

766
00:29:29,474 --> 00:29:29,974
know

767
00:29:30,674 --> 00:29:32,674
everything in your pile has been in the

768
00:29:32,674 --> 00:29:33,414
hot middle

769
00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:37,330
for more than adequate periods of time. And

770
00:29:37,330 --> 00:29:38,549
if you can't turn

771
00:29:39,170 --> 00:29:41,269
because of temperature considerations,

772
00:29:42,049 --> 00:29:45,009
you get the PVC pipe or the, pipe

773
00:29:45,009 --> 00:29:47,490
of the metallic pipe and,

774
00:29:47,890 --> 00:29:49,269
build yourself some chimneys.

775
00:29:49,724 --> 00:29:52,765
How many chimneys? It depends on how fast

776
00:29:52,765 --> 00:29:53,904
you're getting hot,

777
00:29:54,845 --> 00:29:57,105
and this is where we always have

778
00:29:57,484 --> 00:30:00,765
people running into trouble unless they take the

779
00:30:00,765 --> 00:30:01,904
foundation classes

780
00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:02,960
and,

781
00:30:03,259 --> 00:30:05,519
learn how to make good compost.

782
00:30:06,460 --> 00:30:07,740
We have hands on,

783
00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:09,599
classes that you can take

784
00:30:09,980 --> 00:30:11,179
as well as the,

785
00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:12,480
virtual,

786
00:30:13,259 --> 00:30:15,359
training that you get, in

787
00:30:16,619 --> 00:30:17,919
the foundation courses.

788
00:30:18,535 --> 00:30:20,714
So, you always wanna

789
00:30:21,335 --> 00:30:23,734
learn how to turn. You wanna go through

790
00:30:23,734 --> 00:30:24,535
all of the,

791
00:30:25,174 --> 00:30:27,914
well, why do we look at the recipe

792
00:30:28,375 --> 00:30:29,515
for the compost?

793
00:30:30,454 --> 00:30:31,355
We're selecting

794
00:30:32,289 --> 00:30:35,349
for those organisms that are going to best

795
00:30:35,809 --> 00:30:36,309
promote

796
00:30:37,089 --> 00:30:40,549
the plants that you're growing in that situation.

797
00:30:42,049 --> 00:30:42,549
So

798
00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:43,430
always,

799
00:30:44,609 --> 00:30:45,750
we want to,

800
00:30:46,049 --> 00:30:47,349
you know, always wanna

801
00:30:48,424 --> 00:30:50,204
make certain that the compost

802
00:30:50,664 --> 00:30:53,384
doesn't have any diseases or pests. And and

803
00:30:53,384 --> 00:30:55,384
you've gotta go through that step because there

804
00:30:55,384 --> 00:30:56,684
is no other way

805
00:30:56,984 --> 00:30:59,065
to kill all of those bad guys, especially

806
00:30:59,065 --> 00:31:01,164
if you've got manure of any kind.

807
00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:03,789
Anything that's been around an animal for a

808
00:31:03,789 --> 00:31:05,630
short period of time or a long period

809
00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:08,849
of time, there's too many pathogens. You cannot

810
00:31:09,390 --> 00:31:11,789
be growing something that, you know, you might

811
00:31:11,789 --> 00:31:12,289
be,

812
00:31:13,710 --> 00:31:14,929
lighting up and licking

813
00:31:15,390 --> 00:31:16,929
the plant material.

814
00:31:17,524 --> 00:31:20,244
Surprise. It had a disease on it. Not

815
00:31:20,244 --> 00:31:22,484
good. So we wanna take care of that

816
00:31:22,484 --> 00:31:24,884
problem before we ever put it out on

817
00:31:24,884 --> 00:31:25,544
our property.

818
00:31:26,164 --> 00:31:28,565
Building compost is one of those things that,

819
00:31:28,964 --> 00:31:30,644
you know, my dad my dad always said,

820
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:33,220
it's, you know, learn from your mistakes, but

821
00:31:33,220 --> 00:31:35,559
if you can learn from someone else's mistakes.

822
00:31:36,099 --> 00:31:38,019
And, I I and I I'm a big

823
00:31:38,019 --> 00:31:41,640
proponent of of people actually taking formal compost

824
00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:43,940
classes because, you know, a lot of it

825
00:31:44,099 --> 00:31:45,884
a lot of the activity we can't see.

826
00:31:45,884 --> 00:31:47,505
A lot of it is not intuitive,

827
00:31:48,365 --> 00:31:52,144
and and you can destroy your own work

828
00:31:52,365 --> 00:31:55,085
in simple ways. And so Yeah. It's it

829
00:31:55,085 --> 00:31:57,005
really is something to to actually take a

830
00:31:57,005 --> 00:31:59,750
class in. Yep. The road to hell is,

831
00:32:00,450 --> 00:32:01,910
you know, with my,

832
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:03,350
good intentions.

833
00:32:03,730 --> 00:32:05,509
Yeah. Paid by good intentions. Yeah.

834
00:32:06,930 --> 00:32:09,570
So when I first began studying the soil

835
00:32:09,570 --> 00:32:11,809
food web, after hearing you speak,

836
00:32:12,154 --> 00:32:14,315
you know, I definitely got the impact of,

837
00:32:14,315 --> 00:32:17,115
you know, the model of understanding right away.

838
00:32:17,115 --> 00:32:19,194
And and I started applying it and then,

839
00:32:19,194 --> 00:32:21,274
you know, encouraging it to others. But then

840
00:32:21,274 --> 00:32:23,434
my mind was blown away a second time

841
00:32:23,434 --> 00:32:24,174
coming across

842
00:32:24,714 --> 00:32:25,934
folks talking about,

843
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:29,700
the water food web. And it's interesting because

844
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:31,859
in your brain, it's kinda like the same

845
00:32:31,859 --> 00:32:35,240
basic model, but these were water loving creatures

846
00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:37,480
instead of soil loving creatures.

847
00:32:37,779 --> 00:32:40,419
And then and then some biology probably loves

848
00:32:40,419 --> 00:32:40,919
both.

849
00:32:41,744 --> 00:32:43,585
So it I mean, I assume it's it

850
00:32:43,585 --> 00:32:45,525
would be a fallacy to treat them separately.

851
00:32:45,585 --> 00:32:47,184
So what I'd like to know is how

852
00:32:47,184 --> 00:32:48,805
do you think about the relationship

853
00:32:49,184 --> 00:32:51,585
between the water food web and the soil

854
00:32:51,585 --> 00:32:54,305
food web and and the the you know,

855
00:32:54,305 --> 00:32:55,445
how they may overlap?

856
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,500
Because you still want the same nutrient cycling.

857
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,000
You're gonna have root systems down into the

858
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,500
water.

859
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,119
And and I don't know why people always

860
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:09,680
think that, well, if your roots hit the

861
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,619
water, you get to the water

862
00:33:12,894 --> 00:33:15,474
table, like your roots can't go through

863
00:33:16,015 --> 00:33:16,755
the water.

864
00:33:17,295 --> 00:33:18,755
Well, why not?

865
00:33:19,375 --> 00:33:21,875
What do we keep pouring on our plants

866
00:33:22,414 --> 00:33:24,174
in order to get them to grow? Yeah,

867
00:33:24,174 --> 00:33:25,234
it's water.

868
00:33:25,779 --> 00:33:27,000
So what's so terribly

869
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:29,720
wrong about,

870
00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:31,160
water?

871
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,500
As long as you keep it aerobic, there

872
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:36,500
is no problem. And the root systems of

873
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:39,240
your plants will go right down through whatever

874
00:33:39,460 --> 00:33:42,484
water is present, get down into the sediments,

875
00:33:42,484 --> 00:33:44,565
and then the root systems go into the

876
00:33:44,565 --> 00:33:46,884
sediments, and the sediments are just like your

877
00:33:46,884 --> 00:33:47,384
soil

878
00:33:47,765 --> 00:33:49,944
at a slightly higher percent moisture.

879
00:33:50,724 --> 00:33:51,224
So

880
00:33:52,005 --> 00:33:54,644
you have to select for things that can

881
00:33:54,644 --> 00:33:55,865
deal with that

882
00:33:56,299 --> 00:33:59,359
high water content and there will be some

883
00:33:59,740 --> 00:34:00,240
species

884
00:34:00,539 --> 00:34:02,559
that you only find in,

885
00:34:03,339 --> 00:34:05,440
you know, like when you're growing rice,

886
00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:07,119
huge component

887
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:08,880
while that field is

888
00:34:10,114 --> 00:34:10,614
underwater,

889
00:34:11,155 --> 00:34:12,295
you will have

890
00:34:12,994 --> 00:34:15,335
quite a bit different sets of microorganisms

891
00:34:15,795 --> 00:34:16,295
present.

892
00:34:16,914 --> 00:34:19,335
As you dry that surface out,

893
00:34:19,635 --> 00:34:20,135
those,

894
00:34:20,994 --> 00:34:21,494
microorganisms

895
00:34:22,034 --> 00:34:22,775
that require

896
00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:26,989
more than 50% moisture, more than 75%

897
00:34:26,989 --> 00:34:27,489
moisture,

898
00:34:27,869 --> 00:34:30,190
they will all go to sleep. They form

899
00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:30,690
spores.

900
00:34:31,230 --> 00:34:32,610
They will be present

901
00:34:32,910 --> 00:34:34,989
next year. So how do we get all

902
00:34:34,989 --> 00:34:36,210
the right sets of microorganisms

903
00:34:36,590 --> 00:34:37,730
back into the soil

904
00:34:38,204 --> 00:34:41,905
in a water system? Well, we're gonna make

905
00:34:42,204 --> 00:34:42,704
compost

906
00:34:43,325 --> 00:34:45,505
where we're gonna have it pretty,

907
00:34:46,525 --> 00:34:49,325
wet and soppy most of the time. So

908
00:34:49,325 --> 00:34:51,885
you can do exactly what we do with

909
00:34:51,885 --> 00:34:53,025
terrestrial systems.

910
00:34:53,429 --> 00:34:54,809
You can be doing with,

911
00:34:55,670 --> 00:34:57,769
plants that are more aquatic.

912
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:59,530
So,

913
00:35:00,469 --> 00:35:02,730
you know, you just have to recognize

914
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:05,289
the needs of your plant.

915
00:35:05,644 --> 00:35:08,284
What does your plant do best? Does it

916
00:35:08,284 --> 00:35:10,144
like it with moisture

917
00:35:10,684 --> 00:35:11,585
fairly low,

918
00:35:12,125 --> 00:35:15,025
moisture kind of medium, or fairly you know,

919
00:35:15,085 --> 00:35:16,864
we're going into the pond here.

920
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,119
And you're gonna have to do some of

921
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,840
that testing probably yourself because it's not something

922
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,340
that,

923
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:26,659
in the world of

924
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:28,420
understanding

925
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,219
landscapes,

926
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:32,179
we haven't really paid enough attention

927
00:35:32,815 --> 00:35:34,594
to this water factor.

928
00:35:35,135 --> 00:35:37,855
How much water is normal? Well, it's normal

929
00:35:37,855 --> 00:35:39,775
to be at this level in the springtime,

930
00:35:39,775 --> 00:35:41,375
and then it dries down a bit, and

931
00:35:41,375 --> 00:35:43,155
then it's completely dry

932
00:35:43,614 --> 00:35:46,094
in just before harvest, which makes things,

933
00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:47,730
harvesting much

934
00:35:48,349 --> 00:35:48,849
easier.

935
00:35:49,789 --> 00:35:50,289
So,

936
00:35:51,469 --> 00:35:53,869
yeah, pay attention. It sounds like it's another

937
00:35:53,869 --> 00:35:56,530
argument for being sure to collect,

938
00:35:57,390 --> 00:36:00,590
you know, local indigenous microbes too. Because if

939
00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:03,074
you are collecting from many different,

940
00:36:03,614 --> 00:36:04,114
locations

941
00:36:04,574 --> 00:36:06,035
on your parcel

942
00:36:06,655 --> 00:36:08,815
and and you are building them into your

943
00:36:08,815 --> 00:36:11,055
compost pile at different times of the year,

944
00:36:11,055 --> 00:36:13,055
it means that you're collecting them. For example,

945
00:36:13,055 --> 00:36:13,875
where I live,

946
00:36:14,335 --> 00:36:15,934
it it rains for a vast part of

947
00:36:15,934 --> 00:36:18,079
the year, but my my growing season,

948
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:20,800
we turn to drought. And so,

949
00:36:21,180 --> 00:36:23,579
if I want my soil to, you know,

950
00:36:23,579 --> 00:36:26,800
come into the drought season already being healthy

951
00:36:27,099 --> 00:36:29,440
and then be able to make the transition

952
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:30,880
to a drier environment,

953
00:36:31,905 --> 00:36:33,985
that seems to suggest that I would want

954
00:36:33,985 --> 00:36:35,605
year round microorganisms

955
00:36:36,224 --> 00:36:36,724
collected

956
00:36:37,184 --> 00:36:40,144
so that my soil is, you know, jam

957
00:36:40,144 --> 00:36:43,045
packed full of of flexible microorganisms

958
00:36:43,425 --> 00:36:45,820
that can that can play that on off

959
00:36:45,820 --> 00:36:48,780
around the around the calendar where these folks

960
00:36:48,780 --> 00:36:50,219
go to sleep when these wake up, and

961
00:36:50,219 --> 00:36:51,739
then these other ones go to sleep and

962
00:36:51,739 --> 00:36:53,260
the other one and so we have this

963
00:36:53,260 --> 00:36:56,715
this gentle seasonal back and forth. Mhmm. And

964
00:36:56,715 --> 00:36:58,715
and it's all part of the biodiversity we

965
00:36:58,715 --> 00:36:59,614
have to establish

966
00:36:59,994 --> 00:37:01,295
right from the very beginning.

967
00:37:02,394 --> 00:37:04,474
One of my favorite, things, and and I

968
00:37:04,474 --> 00:37:06,095
and I'm probably gonna

969
00:37:06,555 --> 00:37:08,394
paraphrase you poorly, so I apologize for that.

970
00:37:08,394 --> 00:37:09,675
But one of the things that I found

971
00:37:09,675 --> 00:37:10,139
very,

972
00:37:10,779 --> 00:37:13,199
inspiring when I first heard you speak was

973
00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:15,420
you were talking about the the beginning of

974
00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:16,079
the soil,

975
00:37:17,019 --> 00:37:20,299
as like this this threshold point between the

976
00:37:20,299 --> 00:37:22,219
sky and the earth. And it all comes,

977
00:37:22,219 --> 00:37:24,784
like, right down there to where we stand.

978
00:37:25,164 --> 00:37:27,644
And it really kinda shifted my perspective for

979
00:37:27,644 --> 00:37:29,885
how big these two halves are, if you

980
00:37:29,885 --> 00:37:30,385
will.

981
00:37:31,005 --> 00:37:32,684
I'd like to focus on,

982
00:37:33,885 --> 00:37:35,964
an inch and a half of the soil

983
00:37:35,964 --> 00:37:36,704
food web,

984
00:37:37,739 --> 00:37:39,980
that that inch and a half right above

985
00:37:39,980 --> 00:37:43,019
the soil. So so many cultivators choose to

986
00:37:43,019 --> 00:37:45,659
grow tiny, you know, one to three inch

987
00:37:45,659 --> 00:37:48,139
companion plants with like a a single leaf

988
00:37:48,139 --> 00:37:50,804
or two leaves to create a a short

989
00:37:51,045 --> 00:37:54,484
dense canopy over the soil surrounding the cannabis

990
00:37:54,484 --> 00:37:54,984
plant.

991
00:37:55,284 --> 00:37:57,684
We talk about using dichondra repens a lot

992
00:37:57,684 --> 00:37:59,444
here on shaping the fire as an example

993
00:37:59,444 --> 00:38:01,385
of that. The the multitude

994
00:38:01,925 --> 00:38:02,664
of roots

995
00:38:03,219 --> 00:38:04,680
and the root exudates

996
00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:07,800
make for a rich and dynamic rhizosphere.

997
00:38:08,260 --> 00:38:11,140
All those downward pathways of all those little

998
00:38:11,140 --> 00:38:12,739
plants, you know, create a place for the

999
00:38:12,739 --> 00:38:14,739
water to seep through so that we can

1000
00:38:14,739 --> 00:38:15,960
avoid becoming hydrophobic.

1001
00:38:16,744 --> 00:38:18,525
And, you know, all that all that exudate,

1002
00:38:18,664 --> 00:38:21,065
you know, conversation is is is really great

1003
00:38:21,065 --> 00:38:22,844
too. My question for you is this.

1004
00:38:23,144 --> 00:38:25,785
What sort of life happens in that little

1005
00:38:25,785 --> 00:38:26,285
space

1006
00:38:26,824 --> 00:38:28,285
between the canopy,

1007
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,160
you know you know, an inch and a

1008
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,420
half, two or three inches above the soil

1009
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,640
and and the soil, that that inch and

1010
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,860
a half of bioregion.

1011
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,099
There's moisture held in there.

1012
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,119
Like, who's living there, and and what what

1013
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:43,440
biological processes are happening in that in that

1014
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:44,260
small area?

1015
00:38:45,014 --> 00:38:45,514
And

1016
00:38:46,295 --> 00:38:48,454
I would really encourage you to start looking

1017
00:38:48,454 --> 00:38:51,034
at some of your soils, digging down

1018
00:38:51,494 --> 00:38:54,054
and trying to find out where these different

1019
00:38:54,054 --> 00:38:54,954
layers are.

1020
00:38:55,574 --> 00:38:57,755
When you're in a old growth forest,

1021
00:38:58,710 --> 00:39:01,750
because you don't really have well, especially if

1022
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:03,610
it's not a very healthy forest,

1023
00:39:04,070 --> 00:39:06,170
you don't have anything that's gonna mix

1024
00:39:06,469 --> 00:39:09,530
that organic matter layer down into the soil.

1025
00:39:10,164 --> 00:39:12,804
And it's very harmful for most of our

1026
00:39:12,804 --> 00:39:13,304
plants

1027
00:39:13,844 --> 00:39:17,464
to not have some kind of mixing movement.

1028
00:39:18,324 --> 00:39:20,565
And that's again where the microorganisms are going

1029
00:39:20,565 --> 00:39:22,724
to come into play because they're going to

1030
00:39:22,724 --> 00:39:23,464
be moving

1031
00:39:23,844 --> 00:39:25,650
that organic matter as it's

1032
00:39:26,210 --> 00:39:26,710
decomposing

1033
00:39:27,089 --> 00:39:30,069
and getting into smaller and smaller bits,

1034
00:39:30,449 --> 00:39:31,750
you're going to have microorganisms

1035
00:39:32,210 --> 00:39:34,789
taking that away to build structure with.

1036
00:39:35,489 --> 00:39:38,309
And so it's not the top one

1037
00:39:39,569 --> 00:39:41,029
to 1.5

1038
00:39:41,715 --> 00:39:42,215
depth,

1039
00:39:42,675 --> 00:39:43,974
you want to see that

1040
00:39:45,315 --> 00:39:46,215
organic material

1041
00:39:48,675 --> 00:39:51,335
moving down into the soil. So that,

1042
00:39:51,875 --> 00:39:52,695
O horizon

1043
00:39:53,075 --> 00:39:56,375
or the intermediate between the organic layer

1044
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:59,130
and the first layer of true

1045
00:39:59,750 --> 00:40:00,250
soil

1046
00:40:00,789 --> 00:40:02,890
where you've got sand, silt, and clay present,

1047
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:04,890
as well as the organic matter,

1048
00:40:05,269 --> 00:40:07,429
you want the root system growing down through

1049
00:40:07,429 --> 00:40:08,329
all of that.

1050
00:40:08,804 --> 00:40:10,885
You don't stop. If you're a root, you

1051
00:40:10,885 --> 00:40:13,204
don't stop there either. So the root systems

1052
00:40:13,204 --> 00:40:14,964
are going to keep on growing. If your

1053
00:40:14,964 --> 00:40:16,105
roots are stopping

1054
00:40:16,885 --> 00:40:18,505
at 1.5

1055
00:40:20,565 --> 00:40:21,625
inches or

1056
00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:23,179
centimeters

1057
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:24,619
into the soil,

1058
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,380
you've got compaction,

1059
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:27,980
which is deadly

1060
00:40:28,519 --> 00:40:30,139
when it comes to growing

1061
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,519
plants that are going to have all of

1062
00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:33,019
the,

1063
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:34,460
you know, genetic

1064
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:35,500
characteristics

1065
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,659
that we want. Good flavor,

1066
00:40:38,175 --> 00:40:38,675
strong

1067
00:40:39,295 --> 00:40:40,114
stem, resistant

1068
00:40:40,494 --> 00:40:42,114
to diseases and pests.

1069
00:40:43,775 --> 00:40:44,835
You've got to have

1070
00:40:45,614 --> 00:40:46,114
normal

1071
00:40:46,655 --> 00:40:47,155
soil

1072
00:40:47,454 --> 00:40:49,934
where those root systems are gonna keep growing

1073
00:40:49,934 --> 00:40:52,594
straight down. They don't usually stop.

1074
00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:56,289
If they're healthy, they don't stop at one

1075
00:40:56,289 --> 00:40:57,190
and a half inches.

1076
00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:59,429
So the roots themselves

1077
00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:02,469
will be a part of this contingent of

1078
00:41:02,610 --> 00:41:03,750
moving materials

1079
00:41:04,130 --> 00:41:07,335
from that organic matter layer down deeper and

1080
00:41:07,335 --> 00:41:09,114
deeper into the soil, water

1081
00:41:09,735 --> 00:41:12,855
moving along, taking the smaller particles down with

1082
00:41:12,855 --> 00:41:14,074
it so that

1083
00:41:14,454 --> 00:41:17,035
you develop a really good A horizon.

1084
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,599
And of course, if you've got a really

1085
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:20,980
good A horizon, then,

1086
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,739
as you go deeper

1087
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:23,840
and,

1088
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,559
you know, all the small things stay up

1089
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:29,119
there at the surface of the soil, the

1090
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:30,019
bigger chunks

1091
00:41:30,605 --> 00:41:33,344
move down deeper into the soil B horizon.

1092
00:41:34,204 --> 00:41:36,764
And then as you get deeper and lower

1093
00:41:36,764 --> 00:41:38,224
than that mixture,

1094
00:41:39,085 --> 00:41:39,585
it's

1095
00:41:39,885 --> 00:41:40,704
C horizon,

1096
00:41:41,085 --> 00:41:41,585
which

1097
00:41:41,964 --> 00:41:42,464
most

1098
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,340
soils people look at as being sterile,

1099
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,940
which it absolutely

1100
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:49,059
is not

1101
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:50,019
sterile.

1102
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,800
How far down do the organisms in your

1103
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,440
soil go? You know, how far down do

1104
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,574
we see these bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, micro

1105
00:41:58,574 --> 00:42:01,155
arthropods, earthworms, eincatrades, everything else.

1106
00:42:01,775 --> 00:42:02,994
So 12 miles.

1107
00:42:04,015 --> 00:42:05,715
Oh. That's how deep the soil

1108
00:42:06,015 --> 00:42:08,494
really is. Now your roots aren't gonna be

1109
00:42:08,494 --> 00:42:09,420
getting down there,

1110
00:42:09,819 --> 00:42:11,839
but all these really important

1111
00:42:12,219 --> 00:42:14,539
factors are going on in all of that

1112
00:42:14,539 --> 00:42:15,519
12 miles

1113
00:42:16,699 --> 00:42:16,859
of,

1114
00:42:17,739 --> 00:42:19,920
soil that you've got below

1115
00:42:21,099 --> 00:42:21,599
the,

1116
00:42:22,460 --> 00:42:23,839
interface with plants.

1117
00:42:24,305 --> 00:42:26,224
So if plant roots, how far

1118
00:42:26,704 --> 00:42:28,545
if you're looking at a Douglas fir, how

1119
00:42:28,545 --> 00:42:31,025
far down into the soil can the roots

1120
00:42:31,025 --> 00:42:31,525
go?

1121
00:42:32,864 --> 00:42:35,525
As tall as a tree is above

1122
00:42:36,065 --> 00:42:38,085
the surface of the soil,

1123
00:42:38,859 --> 00:42:39,679
so below.

1124
00:42:40,460 --> 00:42:43,039
So if your Douglas fir is

1125
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,380
200 feet tall, the root system of the

1126
00:42:46,380 --> 00:42:49,420
plant is going to be about 200 feet

1127
00:42:49,420 --> 00:42:49,920
down.

1128
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:52,559
So it's a great interface

1129
00:42:53,385 --> 00:42:56,204
between the atmosphere and what it's doing

1130
00:42:56,585 --> 00:42:59,704
and what's going on in the soil and

1131
00:42:59,704 --> 00:43:01,164
the soil below that.

1132
00:43:02,105 --> 00:43:04,184
You know, so lots of things I could

1133
00:43:04,184 --> 00:43:05,164
go off on a

1134
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:07,840
go off on. But,

1135
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,340
yeah, I think that's probably complex enough.

1136
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,420
If our focus,

1137
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:14,719
in for this aspect,

1138
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:17,300
is to make sure that the

1139
00:43:18,695 --> 00:43:21,275
the organic material that is decomposing

1140
00:43:21,815 --> 00:43:23,355
on the top of the soil,

1141
00:43:24,295 --> 00:43:27,914
is finding its way down into the soil

1142
00:43:28,054 --> 00:43:31,034
to be moved around by the superhighways.

1143
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:34,650
Is this a a a is this a

1144
00:43:34,650 --> 00:43:36,989
good case for why we would have a,

1145
00:43:38,489 --> 00:43:40,489
you know, a companion plant on top? You

1146
00:43:40,489 --> 00:43:42,250
know, many people use the term cover crop

1147
00:43:42,250 --> 00:43:44,409
even though that's not exactly accurate for us.

1148
00:43:44,409 --> 00:43:47,525
But but this if we grow these small

1149
00:43:47,525 --> 00:43:50,905
plants as companion plants and they create a

1150
00:43:50,964 --> 00:43:52,425
a one or a two leaf

1151
00:43:52,964 --> 00:43:53,464
canopy,

1152
00:43:54,324 --> 00:43:57,140
you know, two inches above the soil, it

1153
00:43:57,140 --> 00:43:58,519
creates this zone

1154
00:43:58,980 --> 00:44:00,039
where I imagine

1155
00:44:00,579 --> 00:44:02,019
that there is going to be a lot

1156
00:44:02,019 --> 00:44:02,840
of biological

1157
00:44:03,219 --> 00:44:06,180
life because it's, there's moisture there, and it's

1158
00:44:06,180 --> 00:44:08,039
protected some from direct sun.

1159
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:10,304
And what I imagine is that there are

1160
00:44:10,304 --> 00:44:12,405
lots of organisms that are processing,

1161
00:44:13,184 --> 00:44:15,425
you know, the the the healthy compost that

1162
00:44:15,425 --> 00:44:17,445
I've put on top or or,

1163
00:44:17,824 --> 00:44:19,824
you know, anything I've collected around the area.

1164
00:44:19,824 --> 00:44:21,905
Anything that we put on top, the way

1165
00:44:21,905 --> 00:44:23,525
it gets into the soil

1166
00:44:24,059 --> 00:44:24,559
would

1167
00:44:25,019 --> 00:44:26,000
be, improved

1168
00:44:26,380 --> 00:44:29,039
if I have this this, you know,

1169
00:44:29,660 --> 00:44:30,160
canopy

1170
00:44:31,019 --> 00:44:33,599
that creates this, you know, two inch area

1171
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:36,000
above the soil but below the canopy

1172
00:44:36,355 --> 00:44:38,535
where there can be active biology.

1173
00:44:39,315 --> 00:44:41,255
When you hear that, does that sound

1174
00:44:41,795 --> 00:44:42,295
like

1175
00:44:42,914 --> 00:44:45,074
nature, or or is that just something that

1176
00:44:45,074 --> 00:44:46,295
I think sounds great?

1177
00:44:47,635 --> 00:44:49,195
You've got got it almost

1178
00:44:49,635 --> 00:44:52,809
Mhmm. Right. And probably what you're not considering

1179
00:44:52,809 --> 00:44:53,789
here, again, is

1180
00:44:54,409 --> 00:44:54,909
the

1181
00:44:55,929 --> 00:44:56,429
compaction.

1182
00:44:58,730 --> 00:45:02,170
You need to have those understory plants or,

1183
00:45:02,170 --> 00:45:03,389
you know,

1184
00:45:03,929 --> 00:45:06,349
that grow out, and they may only be,

1185
00:45:06,864 --> 00:45:09,445
you know, an inch tall, two inches tall.

1186
00:45:09,825 --> 00:45:12,644
Depends on what your crop plant is,

1187
00:45:13,344 --> 00:45:17,184
how tall your cover plants are gonna be.

1188
00:45:17,184 --> 00:45:19,585
The ground cover is another, that's a word

1189
00:45:19,585 --> 00:45:22,000
I was looking for a minute ago. The

1190
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:22,819
ground cover.

1191
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,679
And you don't want just one species. You

1192
00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:27,539
don't want just two because

1193
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:29,779
who's gonna survive next spring?

1194
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:32,400
We we don't we can't tell you what

1195
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,159
the weather's going to be, what it's going

1196
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:35,859
to be like. So we wanna

1197
00:45:36,184 --> 00:45:37,885
maximize diversity right there.

1198
00:45:38,184 --> 00:45:40,585
Keep some of the things that cause maximum

1199
00:45:40,585 --> 00:45:41,085
diversity

1200
00:45:41,625 --> 00:45:43,244
to stay in your system

1201
00:45:43,945 --> 00:45:45,644
from now until

1202
00:45:46,105 --> 00:45:47,804
forever as far as you're concerned.

1203
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:49,820
We wanna prevent

1204
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,180
water drops falling from the sky

1205
00:45:53,559 --> 00:45:56,039
to directly impact on the surface of your

1206
00:45:56,039 --> 00:45:57,579
soil, because you're compacting

1207
00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:00,680
all of those airways and passageways when that

1208
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,525
drop hits the surface of the soil. Wow.

1209
00:46:03,764 --> 00:46:04,984
It's the major

1210
00:46:05,364 --> 00:46:05,864
compacting

1211
00:46:06,244 --> 00:46:06,744
problem

1212
00:46:07,125 --> 00:46:09,944
that we have in agricultural systems.

1213
00:46:10,404 --> 00:46:12,804
Yeah. It's bad enough driving over your soil

1214
00:46:12,804 --> 00:46:13,944
with a big machinery,

1215
00:46:14,404 --> 00:46:14,904
but

1216
00:46:15,364 --> 00:46:18,565
big machinery can be constrained to just two

1217
00:46:18,565 --> 00:46:19,304
wheel rows.

1218
00:46:20,349 --> 00:46:22,349
Rainfall. How are you gonna get it to

1219
00:46:22,349 --> 00:46:23,650
fall in just one place?

1220
00:46:24,510 --> 00:46:26,670
And imagine the damage that would be done

1221
00:46:26,670 --> 00:46:28,989
if it fell in just one place. I

1222
00:46:28,989 --> 00:46:31,730
never considered rain as a as a compaction

1223
00:46:31,949 --> 00:46:34,190
action and but it it totally makes sense.

1224
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:36,014
And and now I understand better what you

1225
00:46:36,014 --> 00:46:36,755
said earlier

1226
00:46:37,054 --> 00:46:39,375
about the depth of the roots where where

1227
00:46:39,375 --> 00:46:41,775
these these short plants might be nice because

1228
00:46:41,775 --> 00:46:44,275
they grow into, like, this this blanket

1229
00:46:44,734 --> 00:46:47,074
that protects it from compaction from the rain.

1230
00:46:47,375 --> 00:46:48,150
But but,

1231
00:46:48,549 --> 00:46:50,630
now I understand better that you're also saying

1232
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:53,049
make sure you have a variety of plants,

1233
00:46:53,909 --> 00:46:56,650
that are going to have a deeper roots,

1234
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:59,690
like, you know, radishes or something,

1235
00:47:00,389 --> 00:47:02,250
so that so that you've got a variety

1236
00:47:02,309 --> 00:47:04,855
of root depths and a variety of exudate

1237
00:47:04,855 --> 00:47:06,474
conversation that's taking place.

1238
00:47:06,775 --> 00:47:07,275
Exactly.

1239
00:47:08,055 --> 00:47:10,394
And really when you start looking at,

1240
00:47:11,494 --> 00:47:12,715
how is it that

1241
00:47:13,015 --> 00:47:16,055
having plants growing on that surface, short, low

1242
00:47:16,055 --> 00:47:16,555
growing

1243
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:17,420
plants,

1244
00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:19,579
they're continuing

1245
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,199
to have nutrient cycling going on all of

1246
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:24,280
the time. So if your plant ever, you

1247
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,819
know, suffers some harm,

1248
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,519
the nutrient cycling is still gonna be there.

1249
00:47:28,519 --> 00:47:30,255
They're still gonna be hooked up to the

1250
00:47:30,414 --> 00:47:33,074
below ground system of mycorrhizal fungi

1251
00:47:33,694 --> 00:47:37,454
because everything in this orchard, everything in your

1252
00:47:37,454 --> 00:47:38,594
cannabis plot

1253
00:47:39,134 --> 00:47:41,614
should be connected below ground. It's, you know,

1254
00:47:41,614 --> 00:47:43,134
maybe not some of the kales and the

1255
00:47:43,134 --> 00:47:43,954
coal and

1256
00:47:44,579 --> 00:47:47,239
those early successional plots, the weeds,

1257
00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:48,680
those plants,

1258
00:47:49,460 --> 00:47:52,180
won't have the mycorrhizal connection. But as soon

1259
00:47:52,180 --> 00:47:53,720
as you get past that,

1260
00:47:54,340 --> 00:47:55,539
where we're looking at,

1261
00:47:56,900 --> 00:48:00,255
fungal to bacterial biomass ratio of upwards around

1262
00:48:00,255 --> 00:48:01,714
point five or greater,

1263
00:48:02,255 --> 00:48:03,315
they're all mycorrhizal.

1264
00:48:04,094 --> 00:48:06,194
And so everything's tied together.

1265
00:48:06,655 --> 00:48:07,795
We want the

1266
00:48:08,494 --> 00:48:09,714
surface protected

1267
00:48:10,255 --> 00:48:13,079
by the leaf material because when that drop

1268
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:15,180
of water impacts on a leaf,

1269
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:18,539
it pushes that leaf down

1270
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,539
and the water gently

1271
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,760
rolls off that leaf surface and ends up

1272
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:25,635
in your soil.

1273
00:48:26,434 --> 00:48:27,494
So we've completely

1274
00:48:27,875 --> 00:48:29,974
taken care of that compacting effect

1275
00:48:30,434 --> 00:48:33,235
and some of those nutrients are moving with

1276
00:48:33,235 --> 00:48:35,655
that drop of water into your soil.

1277
00:48:36,355 --> 00:48:38,514
So there's lots of benefits and lots of

1278
00:48:38,514 --> 00:48:41,094
ways that you've got this continuous cover.

1279
00:48:41,690 --> 00:48:42,750
Usually these,

1280
00:48:44,569 --> 00:48:45,469
ground covers

1281
00:48:46,889 --> 00:48:49,150
wake up and start growing earlier

1282
00:48:49,849 --> 00:48:51,150
than your crop plant.

1283
00:48:51,449 --> 00:48:53,710
Now think about when do you transplant

1284
00:48:54,089 --> 00:48:54,589
your

1285
00:48:55,114 --> 00:48:55,614
cannabis

1286
00:48:55,994 --> 00:48:56,494
into

1287
00:48:56,795 --> 00:48:57,855
the ground outside?

1288
00:48:58,474 --> 00:49:01,755
Well, it's not the day after the soil

1289
00:49:01,755 --> 00:49:04,394
is no longer free, frozen, because most of

1290
00:49:04,394 --> 00:49:06,655
the time none of us pay attention to

1291
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,180
how cold is the soil. Mhmm.

1292
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:11,559
It's how nasty is it gonna be when

1293
00:49:11,559 --> 00:49:12,920
I have to be out there doing all

1294
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,920
of this work. And so it's gonna be

1295
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,079
a month later. And so you have think

1296
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:18,300
of all that time

1297
00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:20,140
where those understory

1298
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:20,940
plants

1299
00:49:21,585 --> 00:49:24,864
are getting the soil ready for whatever crop

1300
00:49:24,864 --> 00:49:27,105
you're gonna be putting in. It's a little

1301
00:49:27,105 --> 00:49:27,764
bit of,

1302
00:49:28,224 --> 00:49:29,925
you know, we you need to understand

1303
00:49:30,304 --> 00:49:31,045
what your

1304
00:49:31,425 --> 00:49:31,925
particular

1305
00:49:32,385 --> 00:49:32,885
crop

1306
00:49:33,184 --> 00:49:33,684
requires

1307
00:49:34,349 --> 00:49:37,329
in terms of fungal to bacterial biomass ratio.

1308
00:49:37,789 --> 00:49:40,130
You need to have that time to

1309
00:49:40,590 --> 00:49:43,390
build the fungal biomass if you're lacking in

1310
00:49:43,390 --> 00:49:44,610
fungi or build

1311
00:49:45,070 --> 00:49:45,730
the protozoan

1312
00:49:46,110 --> 00:49:46,610
populations

1313
00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:47,570
and

1314
00:49:48,590 --> 00:49:49,730
the good guy nematodes

1315
00:49:50,324 --> 00:49:53,764
So that you've got maximum nutrient cycling, all

1316
00:49:53,764 --> 00:49:55,844
of the things are being held and stored

1317
00:49:55,844 --> 00:49:57,304
and moved and built

1318
00:49:57,844 --> 00:49:59,784
just exactly the way they should.

1319
00:50:00,164 --> 00:50:01,144
So we want

1320
00:50:01,605 --> 00:50:04,025
nice cover, not just here and there.

1321
00:50:04,484 --> 00:50:05,130
We want

1322
00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:06,670
the best places,

1323
00:50:07,449 --> 00:50:09,469
where I'm seeing the best coverage,

1324
00:50:10,730 --> 00:50:12,750
is where they have 20

1325
00:50:13,210 --> 00:50:15,309
different species of seeds

1326
00:50:15,609 --> 00:50:18,089
that have been spread. And you can see

1327
00:50:18,089 --> 00:50:19,150
where this

1328
00:50:19,655 --> 00:50:20,155
summer

1329
00:50:20,454 --> 00:50:23,675
up comes these five species of ground cover.

1330
00:50:23,974 --> 00:50:25,815
But really, you don't see much of the

1331
00:50:25,815 --> 00:50:26,554
other ones.

1332
00:50:27,175 --> 00:50:29,734
But next year, it's like none of the

1333
00:50:29,734 --> 00:50:32,474
five that were really important last year.

1334
00:50:32,820 --> 00:50:34,900
They're not even, you know, peeping their heads

1335
00:50:34,900 --> 00:50:35,800
above because

1336
00:50:36,340 --> 00:50:38,440
things just are not right for them.

1337
00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:41,219
And so you wanna have something that's gonna

1338
00:50:41,219 --> 00:50:43,960
go, yay, this is perfect for me.

1339
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:46,420
And so you'll get five or six different

1340
00:50:46,420 --> 00:50:49,275
species showing their heads, and then there's always

1341
00:50:49,275 --> 00:50:50,974
those years where everything grows.

1342
00:50:51,275 --> 00:50:52,494
And it's spectacular

1343
00:50:53,434 --> 00:50:55,214
when you look in your,

1344
00:50:56,155 --> 00:50:58,394
you know, in your garden is really what

1345
00:50:58,394 --> 00:51:01,214
it looks like because you've got the rows

1346
00:51:01,355 --> 00:51:03,295
of the plant you're trying to grow

1347
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:04,730
for profit

1348
00:51:05,110 --> 00:51:06,889
and you've got all these understory

1349
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:09,369
plants that are just peeking

1350
00:51:10,070 --> 00:51:12,170
through the, blades of,

1351
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:15,525
and showing their heads so that

1352
00:51:16,085 --> 00:51:16,904
the the flowers

1353
00:51:17,525 --> 00:51:18,184
are beautiful.

1354
00:51:18,565 --> 00:51:19,065
Mhmm.

1355
00:51:19,525 --> 00:51:22,565
So lots of things to sit back and

1356
00:51:22,565 --> 00:51:25,364
understand and we're still trying to figure out

1357
00:51:25,364 --> 00:51:27,284
some of a lot of these things, you

1358
00:51:27,284 --> 00:51:27,784
know.

1359
00:51:28,085 --> 00:51:28,824
It's we

1360
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:31,510
it's always interesting to try to figure out

1361
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:33,849
where does all this nitrogen come from.

1362
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:37,369
We have a bumper crop amount of nitrogen

1363
00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:40,070
in our soil, but if you go and

1364
00:51:40,070 --> 00:51:41,530
try to analyze,

1365
00:51:42,505 --> 00:51:44,125
you know, soluble nitrogen,

1366
00:51:45,465 --> 00:51:46,445
total nitrogen,

1367
00:51:47,385 --> 00:51:47,885
exchangeable

1368
00:51:48,184 --> 00:51:48,684
nitrogen,

1369
00:51:50,105 --> 00:51:52,505
there's a missing part of the nitrogen cycle

1370
00:51:52,505 --> 00:51:53,005
that

1371
00:51:53,304 --> 00:51:55,724
we're not paying any attention to at all.

1372
00:51:56,570 --> 00:51:59,469
And so, you know, people always do calculations

1373
00:51:59,610 --> 00:52:01,070
of well, you couldn't possibly,

1374
00:52:02,170 --> 00:52:04,110
keep these, you know, 40

1375
00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:06,349
440,000,

1376
00:52:07,530 --> 00:52:08,030
individual

1377
00:52:08,329 --> 00:52:10,969
plants, you couldn't possibly keep them alive and

1378
00:52:10,969 --> 00:52:13,925
happy with really high levels of nitrogen in

1379
00:52:13,925 --> 00:52:16,344
them if you don't use inorganic fertilizer.

1380
00:52:16,805 --> 00:52:17,545
And yet,

1381
00:52:18,164 --> 00:52:20,505
all of our plants have much higher levels

1382
00:52:20,565 --> 00:52:21,305
of nitrogen

1383
00:52:22,164 --> 00:52:23,545
than the chemically grown

1384
00:52:24,820 --> 00:52:25,320
plants.

1385
00:52:25,859 --> 00:52:28,019
So, you know, which one's gonna give you

1386
00:52:28,019 --> 00:52:28,760
better flavor?

1387
00:52:29,139 --> 00:52:31,460
Which one is going to give you more

1388
00:52:31,460 --> 00:52:31,960
nutrition?

1389
00:52:33,139 --> 00:52:35,320
Which ones are going to taste better?

1390
00:52:35,859 --> 00:52:36,359
So

1391
00:52:36,795 --> 00:52:39,194
there's some of this this work that we've

1392
00:52:39,194 --> 00:52:40,494
still got a

1393
00:52:41,114 --> 00:52:43,295
mother nature has not yet revealed

1394
00:52:43,594 --> 00:52:44,655
all to us.

1395
00:52:45,114 --> 00:52:46,875
We've got some more work to do. Yeah.

1396
00:52:46,875 --> 00:52:48,554
What a what a great time to be

1397
00:52:48,554 --> 00:52:48,954
a,

1398
00:52:49,434 --> 00:52:52,175
a young scientist coming up into the

1399
00:52:52,610 --> 00:52:53,510
the the system

1400
00:52:53,969 --> 00:52:57,170
where, you know, you've broken the idea of,

1401
00:52:57,170 --> 00:53:00,309
you know, the the the soil food web

1402
00:53:00,530 --> 00:53:01,269
and that

1403
00:53:01,809 --> 00:53:03,570
even though it seems obvious now, you know,

1404
00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:05,784
that the soil is alive, but now we

1405
00:53:05,784 --> 00:53:08,364
also have got the analytical technologies

1406
00:53:08,744 --> 00:53:11,385
to take measurements and and see what we're

1407
00:53:11,385 --> 00:53:13,465
working with. It's a it's a great time

1408
00:53:13,465 --> 00:53:16,445
to be coming into thinking about regenerative growing.

1409
00:53:17,969 --> 00:53:19,570
So we're gonna take a short we're gonna

1410
00:53:19,570 --> 00:53:21,570
take a short break and be right back.

1411
00:53:21,570 --> 00:53:23,809
You're listening to Shaping Fire, and my guest

1412
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:25,670
today is doctor Elaine Ingham.

1413
00:53:26,050 --> 00:53:28,690
Without these advertisers, Shaping Fire wouldn't happen. So

1414
00:53:28,690 --> 00:53:30,690
please support them and let them know you

1415
00:53:30,690 --> 00:53:32,230
heard them on Shaping Fire.

1416
00:53:35,204 --> 00:53:38,244
The new finely screened living compost from Leighton

1417
00:53:38,244 --> 00:53:41,065
Morrison at Kingdom Aquaponics is in a product

1418
00:53:41,125 --> 00:53:42,744
category all by itself.

1419
00:53:43,525 --> 00:53:45,944
Nearly all compost you can buy is thermophilic,

1420
00:53:46,510 --> 00:53:48,769
meaning that the compost pile has been heated

1421
00:53:48,829 --> 00:53:50,769
in order to destroy all the pathogens.

1422
00:53:51,550 --> 00:53:54,690
This composting process leaves you with only thermophilic

1423
00:53:54,989 --> 00:53:57,170
organisms while killing everything else.

1424
00:53:57,950 --> 00:54:01,230
Living compost from Kingdom Aquaponics is never heated

1425
00:54:01,230 --> 00:54:02,565
above a 115

1426
00:54:02,565 --> 00:54:05,545
degrees. So it still thrives with the phosphate

1427
00:54:05,605 --> 00:54:06,344
and potassium

1428
00:54:06,644 --> 00:54:07,144
solubilizers,

1429
00:54:07,844 --> 00:54:09,304
degraders and decomposers

1430
00:54:09,605 --> 00:54:12,264
along with the more advanced nutrient cycling organisms.

1431
00:54:12,964 --> 00:54:15,359
But you might be thinking, Shengo, if the

1432
00:54:15,359 --> 00:54:17,839
compost is never heated, isn't it filled with

1433
00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:19,619
pathogens that might hurt my garden?

1434
00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:22,420
All of Layton's compost components

1435
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,759
are specifically chosen and pre processed to remove

1436
00:54:25,759 --> 00:54:26,259
pathogens

1437
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:28,259
before the cool mesophilic

1438
00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:29,699
composting process.

1439
00:54:30,295 --> 00:54:32,855
The mushroom substrate he uses is sterilized in

1440
00:54:32,855 --> 00:54:34,155
advance for growing mushrooms.

1441
00:54:34,614 --> 00:54:36,855
The wood fines are from shredded kiln dried

1442
00:54:36,855 --> 00:54:39,594
lumber and that kiln heat removes any pathogens.

1443
00:54:39,974 --> 00:54:42,614
And the repurposed Coco Coir is sterilized with

1444
00:54:42,614 --> 00:54:43,994
heat in advance too.

1445
00:54:44,579 --> 00:54:47,059
These materials are then combined with a mix

1446
00:54:47,059 --> 00:54:48,119
of worm castings,

1447
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:51,860
fish poop, and special biological inoculants that Layton

1448
00:54:51,860 --> 00:54:53,480
incubates and blends himself.

1449
00:54:54,180 --> 00:54:56,840
The resulting compost has biological stability,

1450
00:54:57,525 --> 00:54:59,304
structure and water storage capacity,

1451
00:54:59,684 --> 00:55:02,664
is packed with nutrient cycling protozoa and nematodes,

1452
00:55:03,045 --> 00:55:06,005
and is fungal and bacteria rich, including purple

1453
00:55:06,005 --> 00:55:06,984
sulfur bacteria.

1454
00:55:07,444 --> 00:55:09,784
He even provides the biological reports.

1455
00:55:10,550 --> 00:55:13,610
This Ultra Premium Living Compost is for anyone

1456
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:16,389
who wants to make compost teas, extracts, or

1457
00:55:16,389 --> 00:55:16,889
topdress.

1458
00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:20,650
You're getting three ingredients in one: worm castings,

1459
00:55:20,869 --> 00:55:24,070
fish mulm, and biologically active compost all in

1460
00:55:24,070 --> 00:55:24,809
one product.

1461
00:55:25,474 --> 00:55:28,035
Get it right the first time. Buy Living

1462
00:55:28,035 --> 00:55:31,894
Compost now at kingdomaquaponicsllc.com.

1463
00:55:32,114 --> 00:55:37,894
Available in three convenient sizes. That's kingdomaquaponicsllc.com.

1464
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:42,940
Fish poop brand fertilizer is an all natural

1465
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,699
OMRI certified fish poop concentrate with nothing added.

1466
00:55:47,159 --> 00:55:48,859
Real fish poop is extraordinarily

1467
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:49,820
complex.

1468
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,780
Not only are you adding the nitrogen, phosphorus,

1469
00:55:52,839 --> 00:55:55,155
and potassium your plants need to build mass,

1470
00:55:55,554 --> 00:55:57,815
transport nutrients, and enhance flavor,

1471
00:55:58,114 --> 00:56:00,855
but fish waste is also packed with probiotics

1472
00:56:01,074 --> 00:56:01,815
and micronutrients.

1473
00:56:03,074 --> 00:56:05,335
When you add fish poop to your irrigation

1474
00:56:05,554 --> 00:56:08,275
water, you are adding fertilizer in a form

1475
00:56:08,275 --> 00:56:11,140
that strengthens the soil food web in your

1476
00:56:11,140 --> 00:56:11,640
garden.

1477
00:56:12,660 --> 00:56:15,380
Because plants are limited by the absence of

1478
00:56:15,380 --> 00:56:16,840
any essential micronutrient,

1479
00:56:17,780 --> 00:56:20,579
these trace nutrients are the difference between having

1480
00:56:20,579 --> 00:56:22,964
a decent garden and having a garden that

1481
00:56:22,964 --> 00:56:25,224
makes you feel really proud of your efforts.

1482
00:56:26,164 --> 00:56:29,045
Fish poop is a naturally complete solution that

1483
00:56:29,045 --> 00:56:31,545
fills in the cracks in your fertilizer program

1484
00:56:31,764 --> 00:56:33,844
to ensure that you offer your garden a

1485
00:56:33,844 --> 00:56:35,224
broad base of nutrients.

1486
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,659
Not all fish poop is created equally.

1487
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,840
Most products with added fish waste don't reveal

1488
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,619
their sources or lab results.

1489
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,340
Fish poop brand Fish poop, however,

1490
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,380
generates their own fish waste as a byproduct

1491
00:56:49,519 --> 00:56:51,059
of their organic aquaponics

1492
00:56:51,525 --> 00:56:54,164
cannabis farm where they raise ornamental koi and

1493
00:56:54,164 --> 00:56:54,664
tilapia.

1494
00:56:55,525 --> 00:56:57,844
You are even invited to tour their farm

1495
00:56:57,844 --> 00:57:00,164
in person or on their YouTube channel to

1496
00:57:00,164 --> 00:57:00,984
look for yourself.

1497
00:57:01,684 --> 00:57:02,824
This sort of transparency

1498
00:57:03,204 --> 00:57:05,949
is wildly rare in the fertilizer market. The

1499
00:57:05,949 --> 00:57:09,070
folks behind fish poop are also lifelong medical

1500
00:57:09,070 --> 00:57:11,869
cannabis producers who have deep connections in the

1501
00:57:11,869 --> 00:57:12,369
community,

1502
00:57:12,750 --> 00:57:15,469
donate more product than they sell, and support

1503
00:57:15,469 --> 00:57:19,329
cannabis prisoners, veteran, and patient collectives and charities.

1504
00:57:20,244 --> 00:57:22,744
To get your bottle of Pure Fish Poop,

1505
00:57:22,885 --> 00:57:24,905
go to fishpoop.com

1506
00:57:25,045 --> 00:57:27,844
or search for Fish Poop on Amazon or

1507
00:57:27,844 --> 00:57:29,224
walmart.com.

1508
00:57:29,364 --> 00:57:31,625
And to see their entire line of cannabis

1509
00:57:31,684 --> 00:57:35,219
products, go to ounceofhope.com.

1510
00:57:35,699 --> 00:57:38,199
That's fish poop brand fish poop.

1511
00:57:40,579 --> 00:57:43,139
Revenue is tight for cannabis businesses right now.

1512
00:57:43,139 --> 00:57:45,380
There is no question about it. And when

1513
00:57:45,380 --> 00:57:48,579
revenue tightens, businesses need to spend smarter on

1514
00:57:48,579 --> 00:57:49,079
advertising.

1515
00:57:49,925 --> 00:57:52,244
Instead of throwing obscene money at hanging your

1516
00:57:52,244 --> 00:57:54,484
company's logo from the rafters at your next

1517
00:57:54,484 --> 00:57:54,984
convention,

1518
00:57:55,445 --> 00:57:58,025
perhaps consider placing commercials on ShapingFire.

1519
00:57:58,885 --> 00:58:00,824
And if you are a very small business,

1520
00:58:01,045 --> 00:58:02,885
there is simply no better bang for your

1521
00:58:02,885 --> 00:58:04,960
buck than commercials on Shaping Fire,

1522
00:58:05,420 --> 00:58:07,900
especially if your products are for regeneratively minded

1523
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:08,400
cultivators.

1524
00:58:09,739 --> 00:58:12,139
Advertising on this show allows us time to

1525
00:58:12,139 --> 00:58:14,780
talk about your product, service, or brand in

1526
00:58:14,780 --> 00:58:16,539
a way that really lets people know what

1527
00:58:16,539 --> 00:58:18,480
sets your company apart from the others.

1528
00:58:19,144 --> 00:58:20,844
Bold people who own companies

1529
00:58:21,144 --> 00:58:23,644
know that getting into relationship with their customers

1530
00:58:23,704 --> 00:58:24,364
is essential.

1531
00:58:24,824 --> 00:58:26,045
That is what we offer.

1532
00:58:26,664 --> 00:58:29,224
We will explain your service or product, what

1533
00:58:29,224 --> 00:58:31,625
sets it apart as desirable, and help our

1534
00:58:31,625 --> 00:58:34,150
audience get in contact with you. It's pretty

1535
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:36,710
simple really. Advertising does not have to be

1536
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:38,409
all whiz bang, smoke, and mirrors.

1537
00:58:38,949 --> 00:58:41,110
Nowadays, I find that people prefer just to

1538
00:58:41,110 --> 00:58:42,489
be spoken to calmly,

1539
00:58:42,869 --> 00:58:44,809
accurately, and with good intentions.

1540
00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:47,110
If you want to make your own commercial

1541
00:58:47,110 --> 00:58:48,489
spot, you can do that too.

1542
00:58:49,045 --> 00:58:51,605
With a commercial on ShapingFire, you'll reach your

1543
00:58:51,605 --> 00:58:53,925
customers in the privacy of their headphones right

1544
00:58:53,925 --> 00:58:56,565
now and will continue to reach new listeners

1545
00:58:56,565 --> 00:58:58,965
as they explore the ShapingFire back catalog of

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1547
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A spot on ShapingFire

1548
00:59:03,949 --> 00:59:06,510
costs less than a postcard per person, and

1549
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the ShapingFire audience is full of smart cannabis

1550
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enthusiasts,

1551
00:59:10,429 --> 00:59:13,230
cultivators, and entrepreneurs who are always curious to

1552
00:59:13,230 --> 00:59:13,730
learn.

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And right now in the new year, we

1554
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are booking the few open spots we have

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1556
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1557
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our new advertisers.

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Do yourself a solid and contact us today

1559
00:59:25,805 --> 00:59:28,385
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1560
00:59:29,239 --> 00:59:32,280
Email hotspot@shapingfire.com

1561
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:33,339
to find out more.

1562
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,039
Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire.

1563
00:59:36,039 --> 00:59:38,199
I'm your host, Shango Los, and my guest

1564
00:59:38,199 --> 00:59:39,900
today is doctor Elaine Ingham.

1565
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,199
So before the break, we were talking a

1566
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:43,659
lot about the importance

1567
00:59:44,235 --> 00:59:45,535
of of encouraging

1568
00:59:45,835 --> 00:59:48,555
and supporting the soil food web and making

1569
00:59:48,555 --> 00:59:49,775
sure all of

1570
00:59:50,075 --> 00:59:52,474
the different plants in your garden are talking

1571
00:59:52,474 --> 00:59:55,035
with each other because indeed, we are looking

1572
00:59:55,035 --> 00:59:57,320
to support a web of communication

1573
00:59:58,019 --> 00:59:59,860
and transfer and some nutrition and things like

1574
00:59:59,860 --> 01:00:00,360
that.

1575
01:00:00,900 --> 01:00:03,000
So doctor Lane, you know, many cultivators

1576
01:00:03,380 --> 01:00:05,700
aspire to the soil food web ideals, but

1577
01:00:05,700 --> 01:00:07,960
they they still get hung up on keeping

1578
01:00:08,180 --> 01:00:09,719
sterile growing environments,

1579
01:00:10,019 --> 01:00:11,079
like even outside.

1580
01:00:11,964 --> 01:00:13,984
Instead of focusing on biology

1581
01:00:14,525 --> 01:00:15,264
and balance,

1582
01:00:15,724 --> 01:00:16,625
they intend

1583
01:00:17,005 --> 01:00:20,045
instead for, like, ideals, like like zero pest

1584
01:00:20,045 --> 01:00:22,204
present, like, there's not a single pest in

1585
01:00:22,204 --> 01:00:22,864
my garden.

1586
01:00:24,190 --> 01:00:26,590
How do you teach the mindset of the

1587
01:00:26,590 --> 01:00:27,809
soil food web

1588
01:00:28,110 --> 01:00:30,909
so that your students understand this the softer

1589
01:00:30,909 --> 01:00:31,809
idea of

1590
01:00:32,110 --> 01:00:32,610
biological

1591
01:00:33,309 --> 01:00:33,809
inclusion

1592
01:00:34,110 --> 01:00:34,849
and balance

1593
01:00:35,550 --> 01:00:37,170
instead of the absolutest

1594
01:00:37,844 --> 01:00:41,385
ideals of zero tolerance for anybody who isn't

1595
01:00:41,445 --> 01:00:42,264
on my team?

1596
01:00:43,045 --> 01:00:45,445
Yeah. It's because it's what we were all

1597
01:00:45,445 --> 01:00:47,625
taught when we were in grade school,

1598
01:00:47,925 --> 01:00:50,565
middle school, and so on. Certainly in any

1599
01:00:50,565 --> 01:00:51,065
microbiology

1600
01:00:51,605 --> 01:00:53,539
class, you know, what's the most dangerous

1601
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,380
thing you're going to encounter

1602
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:56,260
today?

1603
01:00:56,559 --> 01:00:57,619
The door handle

1604
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,760
on the room because everybody touches it going

1605
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:02,660
in and out.

1606
01:01:03,199 --> 01:01:05,920
And not really. It's not like that's a

1607
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,255
special place for disease causing organisms to grow.

1608
01:01:10,114 --> 01:01:11,175
You're just inoculating

1609
01:01:11,474 --> 01:01:13,715
a lot of really interesting things on that

1610
01:01:13,715 --> 01:01:14,454
door handle,

1611
01:01:14,914 --> 01:01:17,655
but you're also inoculating all of the beneficials.

1612
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:19,400
So

1613
01:01:20,019 --> 01:01:21,940
there's a balance there that you've got to

1614
01:01:21,940 --> 01:01:24,039
think. If you've got people with good

1615
01:01:24,579 --> 01:01:25,079
decent,

1616
01:01:26,019 --> 01:01:27,859
they've picked up their apple every day or

1617
01:01:27,859 --> 01:01:30,519
they've picked up some really good soil,

1618
01:01:31,219 --> 01:01:33,400
smelled it, they were working in their compost

1619
01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:33,960
pile,

1620
01:01:34,815 --> 01:01:36,434
you don't have to worry about the

1621
01:01:36,815 --> 01:01:37,875
door knob anymore.

1622
01:01:38,414 --> 01:01:40,815
Every morning go out there and wipe all

1623
01:01:40,815 --> 01:01:41,474
of your

1624
01:01:43,215 --> 01:01:45,635
door knobs with a really good

1625
01:01:46,094 --> 01:01:48,275
handful of compost that you know

1626
01:01:48,619 --> 01:01:50,800
has got all of the really beneficial organisms

1627
01:01:50,860 --> 01:01:51,519
in it.

1628
01:01:53,099 --> 01:01:54,239
One of the mechanisms

1629
01:01:55,099 --> 01:01:56,079
for why

1630
01:01:56,699 --> 01:01:57,920
this is important

1631
01:01:58,460 --> 01:01:58,960
is

1632
01:01:59,340 --> 01:02:01,199
that if you've got a sterile

1633
01:02:01,579 --> 01:02:02,079
system

1634
01:02:02,460 --> 01:02:04,320
there's nothing to stop

1635
01:02:04,994 --> 01:02:06,694
the disease causing organisms

1636
01:02:06,994 --> 01:02:07,974
if perchance

1637
01:02:08,514 --> 01:02:09,494
they get inoculated.

1638
01:02:10,355 --> 01:02:11,014
And so

1639
01:02:11,394 --> 01:02:12,614
runs through your

1640
01:02:13,474 --> 01:02:13,974
greenhouse,

1641
01:02:14,275 --> 01:02:15,174
all of the

1642
01:02:15,554 --> 01:02:16,054
containers,

1643
01:02:16,594 --> 01:02:17,574
all of the benches,

1644
01:02:18,034 --> 01:02:19,174
below the benches,

1645
01:02:19,889 --> 01:02:21,889
all the little spiders and all the cute

1646
01:02:21,889 --> 01:02:22,389
little,

1647
01:02:24,369 --> 01:02:27,489
buzzy little flies that drive us all crazy.

1648
01:02:27,489 --> 01:02:29,409
Where did all of these aphids come from?

1649
01:02:29,409 --> 01:02:32,555
Where did these white flies come from? Well,

1650
01:02:32,555 --> 01:02:34,095
it probably came because

1651
01:02:34,555 --> 01:02:36,494
you're being too sterile about things.

1652
01:02:36,875 --> 01:02:39,914
You're not letting there be those things that

1653
01:02:39,914 --> 01:02:41,375
would wipe out

1654
01:02:42,315 --> 01:02:45,355
those diseases and pests before they ever got

1655
01:02:45,355 --> 01:02:46,815
to a high enough concentration

1656
01:02:47,219 --> 01:02:49,139
that it would start bothering us as human

1657
01:02:49,139 --> 01:02:49,639
beings.

1658
01:02:50,420 --> 01:02:52,440
So whenever we're looking to,

1659
01:02:53,380 --> 01:02:56,099
get rid of a disease causing organism, especially

1660
01:02:56,099 --> 01:02:56,840
in a greenhouse,

1661
01:02:57,300 --> 01:02:59,320
is go in and look and see

1662
01:02:59,780 --> 01:03:02,574
where might the spores be hanging out. And

1663
01:03:02,574 --> 01:03:05,614
they're gonna have a specific part of the

1664
01:03:05,614 --> 01:03:06,114
greenhouse,

1665
01:03:06,735 --> 01:03:07,954
or if you're outside,

1666
01:03:08,494 --> 01:03:10,275
specific part of the soil,

1667
01:03:10,894 --> 01:03:11,394
typically

1668
01:03:11,775 --> 01:03:12,755
low oxygen,

1669
01:03:13,934 --> 01:03:16,914
lots of dead bodies of things, and things

1670
01:03:17,135 --> 01:03:19,550
for them to, you know, chow down on.

1671
01:03:20,170 --> 01:03:22,750
So those eggs or spores

1672
01:03:23,289 --> 01:03:24,269
when they hatch

1673
01:03:24,570 --> 01:03:26,650
have all the food they need right around

1674
01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:29,369
them, so they can very quickly move into

1675
01:03:29,369 --> 01:03:32,795
the next stage of their life where those

1676
01:03:32,795 --> 01:03:36,014
larval stages are moving off someplace else,

1677
01:03:36,635 --> 01:03:39,135
and they need the unclean,

1678
01:03:40,635 --> 01:03:42,574
ecosystems in order to thrive

1679
01:03:43,114 --> 01:03:43,614
and

1680
01:03:43,914 --> 01:03:46,219
have each one of those larvae

1681
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:47,579
make it through

1682
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:48,619
to adulthood.

1683
01:03:49,239 --> 01:03:51,079
And then, you know, the mom and dad,

1684
01:03:51,079 --> 01:03:52,300
they're flying around.

1685
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,099
Every place they touch

1686
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,039
is going to be a mass of these

1687
01:03:58,039 --> 01:03:59,739
disease causing organisms

1688
01:04:00,204 --> 01:04:01,585
going out on the surfaces

1689
01:04:01,964 --> 01:04:04,304
of the above ground parts of your plants.

1690
01:04:04,444 --> 01:04:06,605
On the crown of your plants, quite often

1691
01:04:06,605 --> 01:04:08,784
I'm sure some of you have noticed that

1692
01:04:08,924 --> 01:04:11,005
some of the larvae hang out right there

1693
01:04:11,005 --> 01:04:11,824
at the crown

1694
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,440
of the plant. That's their favorite place and

1695
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,099
they're slowly munching through and killing

1696
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,260
parts of the root system

1697
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:22,539
which now are gonna of course be anaerobic

1698
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,860
and chock full of diseases.

1699
01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:26,539
So

1700
01:04:27,255 --> 01:04:27,755
sterility

1701
01:04:28,135 --> 01:04:29,594
is not a good idea

1702
01:04:30,295 --> 01:04:32,154
when we're trying to prevent

1703
01:04:33,014 --> 01:04:33,914
you know exactly

1704
01:04:34,855 --> 01:04:37,835
why we were spraying horrible toxic chemicals

1705
01:04:38,614 --> 01:04:39,674
all through the

1706
01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:41,000
through

1707
01:04:41,539 --> 01:04:42,679
the greenhouse.

1708
01:04:43,460 --> 01:04:45,539
So we want to have all of these

1709
01:04:45,539 --> 01:04:48,739
beneficial organisms in there so that when that

1710
01:04:48,739 --> 01:04:51,079
disease causing organism is

1711
01:04:51,699 --> 01:04:52,199
accidentally

1712
01:04:52,739 --> 01:04:54,519
brought into your greenhouse

1713
01:04:54,954 --> 01:04:56,815
and somebody leaves the handprint,

1714
01:04:57,835 --> 01:05:00,795
we wanna have those beneficial organisms that look

1715
01:05:00,795 --> 01:05:02,574
at those disease causing organisms

1716
01:05:03,114 --> 01:05:04,094
and go, somebody

1717
01:05:05,194 --> 01:05:05,694
brought

1718
01:05:06,155 --> 01:05:06,655
lunch.

1719
01:05:07,230 --> 01:05:09,070
And they chow down and take them all

1720
01:05:09,070 --> 01:05:12,130
out. There's a direct conflict in many cases

1721
01:05:13,389 --> 01:05:15,570
with those kinds of organisms, and

1722
01:05:16,349 --> 01:05:17,090
the beneficials

1723
01:05:18,510 --> 01:05:21,469
regard the disease causers as just a source

1724
01:05:21,469 --> 01:05:22,094
of food.

1725
01:05:22,574 --> 01:05:23,315
You want

1726
01:05:23,775 --> 01:05:26,335
those kinds of beneficial organisms in your system.

1727
01:05:26,335 --> 01:05:27,554
So sterile,

1728
01:05:28,014 --> 01:05:29,934
not a good idea because you can't keep

1729
01:05:29,934 --> 01:05:30,755
human beings

1730
01:05:31,215 --> 01:05:31,715
sterile.

1731
01:05:33,054 --> 01:05:35,534
And they're probably the biggest problem in spreading

1732
01:05:35,534 --> 01:05:36,034
diseases

1733
01:05:36,590 --> 01:05:39,150
throughout a greenhouse in in places that you'd

1734
01:05:39,150 --> 01:05:40,130
never think about.

1735
01:05:40,510 --> 01:05:42,690
You know, like when people are

1736
01:05:42,989 --> 01:05:45,809
standing at the table and they're transplanting,

1737
01:05:47,309 --> 01:05:50,295
this plant from a to b and they

1738
01:05:50,295 --> 01:05:51,494
take all the dead,

1739
01:05:51,894 --> 01:05:54,375
leaf material off, they maybe see some dead

1740
01:05:54,375 --> 01:05:56,155
roots and they pull that off.

1741
01:05:56,614 --> 01:05:58,394
What are they doing with that,

1742
01:05:59,014 --> 01:06:01,255
plant material? They drop it on the floor

1743
01:06:01,255 --> 01:06:03,579
next to them, right? And now you've set

1744
01:06:03,579 --> 01:06:05,039
up a perfect environment

1745
01:06:05,579 --> 01:06:07,920
for all of the white flies and

1746
01:06:09,260 --> 01:06:10,320
the micro arthropods,

1747
01:06:11,179 --> 01:06:12,559
the little tiny flying

1748
01:06:13,179 --> 01:06:13,679
critters,

1749
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:16,735
perfect place for them to lay their eggs

1750
01:06:16,735 --> 01:06:18,755
and for the larvae to hatch out

1751
01:06:19,375 --> 01:06:22,594
and go through that whole stage right there

1752
01:06:22,974 --> 01:06:23,875
in the gravel

1753
01:06:24,894 --> 01:06:25,954
under your feet.

1754
01:06:26,335 --> 01:06:28,574
And people don't think about they've gotta clean

1755
01:06:28,574 --> 01:06:29,474
that too.

1756
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:32,340
So what's the best way of cleaning

1757
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:34,739
that floor material?

1758
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:36,980
Apply some compost tea.

1759
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,260
Apply some compost extract that's got the organisms

1760
01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:42,400
that are going to take care of all

1761
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:43,780
of those disease causers.

1762
01:06:44,385 --> 01:06:46,485
Yeah you have to keep it aerobic enough

1763
01:06:46,864 --> 01:06:48,405
so don't over water,

1764
01:06:48,945 --> 01:06:49,445
but

1765
01:06:51,105 --> 01:06:53,364
certainly when you look at what triggers

1766
01:06:54,385 --> 01:06:55,925
the plants immune

1767
01:06:56,304 --> 01:06:57,844
system, it's resistance

1768
01:06:58,304 --> 01:06:59,844
to diseases and pests,

1769
01:07:00,989 --> 01:07:02,289
It's those microorganisms

1770
01:07:02,989 --> 01:07:03,489
that,

1771
01:07:04,110 --> 01:07:07,710
will trigger, they'll send out to the plant

1772
01:07:07,710 --> 01:07:08,449
the information

1773
01:07:09,070 --> 01:07:12,449
that there's something bad happening here, the hordes

1774
01:07:12,590 --> 01:07:13,090
of,

1775
01:07:13,525 --> 01:07:14,885
I don't know, what should we call them,

1776
01:07:14,885 --> 01:07:17,144
purple devils are coming at us.

1777
01:07:18,724 --> 01:07:20,644
They need help from the plant and the

1778
01:07:20,644 --> 01:07:22,025
plant needs to contribute

1779
01:07:22,724 --> 01:07:24,025
something to the upkeep

1780
01:07:24,405 --> 01:07:27,545
of those bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes

1781
01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:30,559
that will attack and consume the diseases and

1782
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:31,140
the pests.

1783
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,059
I can almost hear the the greenhouse managers

1784
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:36,099
listening to this

1785
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,180
in a being aghast

1786
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,700
because, you know, their normal mindset is probably

1787
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:42,090
to,

1788
01:07:42,844 --> 01:07:44,944
you know, spray or clean their floors,

1789
01:07:45,484 --> 01:07:48,065
with either some kind of, you know, chemical

1790
01:07:48,125 --> 01:07:50,125
sterilizer or, you know, a 10 to one

1791
01:07:50,125 --> 01:07:51,724
bleach, you know, depending on the the variety

1792
01:07:51,724 --> 01:07:53,904
of floor they have. And now instead,

1793
01:07:54,844 --> 01:07:56,679
you know, we're talking about no. Spray them

1794
01:07:56,679 --> 01:07:58,920
with compost tea because we want the entire

1795
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,019
environment to be tied together,

1796
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:02,860
biologically

1797
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,980
so that it's prepared for any invaders.

1798
01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:08,679
And it makes total sense when you say

1799
01:08:08,679 --> 01:08:11,324
it, but, you know, it's it's also heresy

1800
01:08:11,324 --> 01:08:13,485
from, you know, the way things have been

1801
01:08:13,485 --> 01:08:14,385
done in the past.

1802
01:08:14,844 --> 01:08:17,164
Yeah. Because we didn't understand. Stranger to heresy

1803
01:08:17,164 --> 01:08:18,225
though, Elaine.

1804
01:08:19,484 --> 01:08:21,265
Yeah. What have I done all my life?

1805
01:08:21,805 --> 01:08:22,529
You know,

1806
01:08:23,090 --> 01:08:25,409
because I'm I'm mostly interested in the truth

1807
01:08:25,409 --> 01:08:28,389
and I wanna understand why things work.

1808
01:08:28,849 --> 01:08:30,389
And when we've had,

1809
01:08:30,929 --> 01:08:33,989
you know, systems that depend on

1810
01:08:34,529 --> 01:08:36,469
pulling the wool over people's faces

1811
01:08:37,185 --> 01:08:38,724
And because that's what the chemical

1812
01:08:39,024 --> 01:08:42,145
industry is, they've been convincing us to put

1813
01:08:42,145 --> 01:08:43,925
out terribly toxic things

1814
01:08:44,304 --> 01:08:44,965
to kill,

1815
01:08:45,585 --> 01:08:47,045
particular sets of microorganisms

1816
01:08:47,505 --> 01:08:49,764
who then just develop resistance

1817
01:08:50,859 --> 01:08:52,000
to those chemical

1818
01:08:52,619 --> 01:08:53,119
applications.

1819
01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:54,399
So now how

1820
01:08:55,100 --> 01:08:56,640
are you going to deal with these problems?

1821
01:08:57,100 --> 01:08:59,340
The only way is biologically. We've got to

1822
01:08:59,340 --> 01:09:00,319
get the beneficials

1823
01:09:00,939 --> 01:09:02,699
back out there. We've got to keep it

1824
01:09:02,699 --> 01:09:04,960
aerobic, yep, so that's a biggie.

1825
01:09:05,284 --> 01:09:07,045
We want to make certain that we've got,

1826
01:09:07,364 --> 01:09:08,425
critters that eat

1827
01:09:08,885 --> 01:09:11,445
those organisms and we want those things that

1828
01:09:11,445 --> 01:09:12,345
will inhibit,

1829
01:09:13,204 --> 01:09:15,625
well, definitely with toxic chemicals,

1830
01:09:16,164 --> 01:09:17,625
but it doesn't leave,

1831
01:09:18,324 --> 01:09:19,625
the area around

1832
01:09:19,925 --> 01:09:20,744
the bacterium

1833
01:09:21,420 --> 01:09:22,159
or around

1834
01:09:22,619 --> 01:09:25,439
the roots or the hyphae of the plants.

1835
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:26,960
They don't just

1836
01:09:27,340 --> 01:09:29,280
mindlessly go out and apply

1837
01:09:29,739 --> 01:09:32,720
massive amounts of toxic chemicals

1838
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:35,520
far beyond what you actually need.

1839
01:09:36,364 --> 01:09:39,404
So let's give these organisms a chance to

1840
01:09:39,404 --> 01:09:40,704
show you what they can do,

1841
01:09:41,324 --> 01:09:44,685
where you will become accustomed. Hopefully all of

1842
01:09:44,685 --> 01:09:45,425
our children

1843
01:09:45,965 --> 01:09:46,465
will

1844
01:09:46,844 --> 01:09:49,645
read stories about this time in life in

1845
01:09:49,645 --> 01:09:52,140
the history of man and go, how could

1846
01:09:52,140 --> 01:09:54,640
these people have been so blind?

1847
01:09:55,979 --> 01:09:58,720
Now it's the power of the written word,

1848
01:09:58,780 --> 01:09:59,600
isn't it?

1849
01:10:01,020 --> 01:10:03,500
It's amazing how much of that is, I

1850
01:10:03,500 --> 01:10:05,360
mean, sure, we need to learn best practices,

1851
01:10:06,380 --> 01:10:07,439
for using

1852
01:10:07,875 --> 01:10:10,694
nature to support nature instead of chemicals to

1853
01:10:10,755 --> 01:10:13,314
keep nature at bay. But but, like, outside

1854
01:10:13,314 --> 01:10:14,914
of the best practices, so much of it

1855
01:10:14,914 --> 01:10:17,074
is just trust too. Because I, you know,

1856
01:10:17,074 --> 01:10:18,774
I was brought up to trust chemicals

1857
01:10:19,234 --> 01:10:21,014
and pharmaceuticals for that matter.

1858
01:10:21,380 --> 01:10:23,699
And and, you know, as we realized that

1859
01:10:23,699 --> 01:10:26,659
that was a, you know, philosophy that that

1860
01:10:26,659 --> 01:10:27,960
over time was bunk,

1861
01:10:28,340 --> 01:10:30,199
now we need to kind of, like, untrain

1862
01:10:30,260 --> 01:10:32,280
ourselves back towards regenerative,

1863
01:10:32,739 --> 01:10:34,984
which which, you know, for the most part

1864
01:10:34,984 --> 01:10:36,505
is, you know, what we what we try

1865
01:10:36,505 --> 01:10:37,244
to do here.

1866
01:10:38,024 --> 01:10:40,664
I've got another question about, like, you know,

1867
01:10:40,664 --> 01:10:42,984
the the pest populations, and that's kind of

1868
01:10:42,984 --> 01:10:44,284
a corollary to this.

1869
01:10:44,824 --> 01:10:47,064
More and more folks in cannabis are learning

1870
01:10:47,064 --> 01:10:49,405
to effectively use beneficial insects

1871
01:10:49,890 --> 01:10:51,810
and trust them more just like we were

1872
01:10:51,810 --> 01:10:52,630
talking about.

1873
01:10:53,090 --> 01:10:54,550
When I think about beneficial

1874
01:10:55,329 --> 01:10:57,969
insects through the lens of the soil food

1875
01:10:57,969 --> 01:10:58,469
web,

1876
01:10:58,850 --> 01:11:01,890
I kind of imagine that dumping thousands of

1877
01:11:01,890 --> 01:11:02,390
beneficial

1878
01:11:02,850 --> 01:11:06,324
predators of any variety into a cultivation area

1879
01:11:06,944 --> 01:11:10,385
might throw off the balance of the the

1880
01:11:10,385 --> 01:11:10,885
local

1881
01:11:11,585 --> 01:11:12,885
soil food web.

1882
01:11:13,585 --> 01:11:16,225
Certainly, you know, target pest populations will be

1883
01:11:16,225 --> 01:11:18,480
reduced, right, whatever it is they eat. But

1884
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:21,239
are there are there any other potential soil

1885
01:11:21,239 --> 01:11:23,820
food impacts that we should be aware of

1886
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,619
when using beneficial insects? Because

1887
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,060
we we are

1888
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,860
super packing a particular

1889
01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:31,899
niche

1890
01:11:32,475 --> 01:11:35,114
of the soil food web with suddenly a

1891
01:11:35,114 --> 01:11:35,935
lot of participants.

1892
01:11:36,795 --> 01:11:39,114
And I like the idea that it's just

1893
01:11:39,114 --> 01:11:41,194
gonna they're just going to eat the target

1894
01:11:41,194 --> 01:11:43,835
pests and then eventually go off to find

1895
01:11:43,835 --> 01:11:45,914
new food sources, but I don't actually know

1896
01:11:45,914 --> 01:11:46,895
that to be true.

1897
01:11:48,199 --> 01:11:51,079
And it's essentially true, but it's like when

1898
01:11:51,079 --> 01:11:51,579
you

1899
01:11:52,119 --> 01:11:54,860
put a a huge amount of,

1900
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,439
a predator into the system, it's gonna go

1901
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,800
looking for prey, and it will drop the,

1902
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:02,780
species.

1903
01:12:03,215 --> 01:12:04,034
And what if

1904
01:12:04,894 --> 01:12:06,514
those things that just got eaten

1905
01:12:06,894 --> 01:12:08,514
by the beneficial insects,

1906
01:12:08,974 --> 01:12:12,574
what if they were what prevents some other

1907
01:12:12,574 --> 01:12:14,814
disease from attacking the root system of your

1908
01:12:14,814 --> 01:12:15,314
plant?

1909
01:12:15,930 --> 01:12:18,570
And so you're you honed right in on

1910
01:12:18,570 --> 01:12:21,869
exactly what the problem is. It's a density

1911
01:12:22,329 --> 01:12:22,829
problem.

1912
01:12:23,369 --> 01:12:26,409
You've got to spread those beneficial insects out

1913
01:12:26,409 --> 01:12:28,430
throughout your whole bed.

1914
01:12:28,735 --> 01:12:30,195
You can't be applying them,

1915
01:12:30,574 --> 01:12:32,655
everything goes into the soil down here and

1916
01:12:32,655 --> 01:12:34,095
we assume they're going to spread all the

1917
01:12:34,095 --> 01:12:36,015
way down the end of your bed or

1918
01:12:36,015 --> 01:12:36,515
your

1919
01:12:36,895 --> 01:12:37,395
agricultural

1920
01:12:37,695 --> 01:12:38,195
field.

1921
01:12:39,055 --> 01:12:41,395
You want to be putting a few in

1922
01:12:42,119 --> 01:12:45,000
every places you're going down the line, just

1923
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:46,140
a few, because

1924
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:48,220
it takes a lot of microorganisms,

1925
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,260
a lot of the smaller critters, to satisfy

1926
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:54,699
the hunger

1927
01:12:55,234 --> 01:12:58,435
of the predator that you just dropped into

1928
01:12:58,435 --> 01:13:00,755
the system. And they were already competing with

1929
01:13:00,755 --> 01:13:01,494
each other

1930
01:13:02,034 --> 01:13:03,175
in whatever container

1931
01:13:03,715 --> 01:13:06,515
you were keeping them, and now you've let

1932
01:13:06,515 --> 01:13:08,774
them loose and they just go crazy.

1933
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:11,780
And knock the beneficial

1934
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,220
prey group down to almost nothing.

1935
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,659
So now you're looking for potential diseases.

1936
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,760
We need to, and so here's something that

1937
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,220
we haven't quite gotten

1938
01:13:23,595 --> 01:13:26,015
around to, we need to have our microscope,

1939
01:13:26,954 --> 01:13:28,255
look at it and go,

1940
01:13:29,034 --> 01:13:32,395
here's the problem organism coming on. And so

1941
01:13:32,395 --> 01:13:34,095
I need more of

1942
01:13:35,835 --> 01:13:38,335
these bacteria, I need more of these fungi

1943
01:13:39,060 --> 01:13:40,760
If I'm going to put in

1944
01:13:41,140 --> 01:13:43,159
more of these beneficial insects,

1945
01:13:44,500 --> 01:13:46,100
they're going to be eating my bacteria and

1946
01:13:46,100 --> 01:13:48,020
fungi, and so I better make certain that

1947
01:13:48,020 --> 01:13:50,840
my bacteria and fungi get a little bit

1948
01:13:51,135 --> 01:13:52,034
of extra

1949
01:13:52,814 --> 01:13:53,314
food

1950
01:13:54,175 --> 01:13:56,994
so that they can multiply and maintain

1951
01:13:57,295 --> 01:13:57,795
balance.

1952
01:13:58,175 --> 01:14:00,114
Either that or you're going to have some

1953
01:14:00,175 --> 01:14:01,954
real shifts and swings,

1954
01:14:02,494 --> 01:14:02,994
and

1955
01:14:03,295 --> 01:14:04,994
lots of good nutrient

1956
01:14:06,489 --> 01:14:08,649
availability in the soil, and all of a

1957
01:14:08,649 --> 01:14:11,310
sudden because you put on the

1958
01:14:13,210 --> 01:14:14,829
good guys for keeping

1959
01:14:15,449 --> 01:14:15,949
the

1960
01:14:16,729 --> 01:14:18,109
disease causing bacteria

1961
01:14:18,569 --> 01:14:20,795
in line, you're also going to lose your

1962
01:14:20,795 --> 01:14:23,854
good bacteria and now there's not enough nitrogen,

1963
01:14:23,994 --> 01:14:27,194
phosphorus, sulfur, magnesium, calcium available to your plant

1964
01:14:27,194 --> 01:14:28,414
around that root system.

1965
01:14:29,594 --> 01:14:31,354
So if we could only do it one

1966
01:14:31,354 --> 01:14:33,679
root at a time, it might work. But

1967
01:14:33,679 --> 01:14:35,939
we're doing this to the whole system.

1968
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,679
So I really do like to put these

1969
01:14:39,679 --> 01:14:40,179
organisms

1970
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:41,060
into

1971
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,500
the compost itself and let that

1972
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:46,979
predator prey

1973
01:14:48,454 --> 01:14:51,574
balance itself out. And so when I put

1974
01:14:51,574 --> 01:14:55,515
the compost out there, it's already with adequate

1975
01:14:55,655 --> 01:14:57,975
amounts of bacteria or fungi or protozoa or

1976
01:14:57,975 --> 01:14:59,354
nematodes or whatever

1977
01:15:00,215 --> 01:15:01,595
as compared to

1978
01:15:02,215 --> 01:15:02,875
the predatory

1979
01:15:04,350 --> 01:15:06,909
organism that you put in there to shut

1980
01:15:06,909 --> 01:15:07,409
down

1981
01:15:07,789 --> 01:15:09,810
the disease causing or the pest,

1982
01:15:11,149 --> 01:15:12,689
micro arthropods out there?

1983
01:15:13,470 --> 01:15:15,570
This idea of having overdense

1984
01:15:16,189 --> 01:15:19,215
beneficial insects is the first time that I've

1985
01:15:19,295 --> 01:15:21,635
ever wrapped my head around the idea of

1986
01:15:22,094 --> 01:15:24,675
actually listening to application rates.

1987
01:15:25,135 --> 01:15:25,635
Because,

1988
01:15:26,654 --> 01:15:28,654
you know, I really had never thought about,

1989
01:15:28,654 --> 01:15:31,454
you know, using so many that it that

1990
01:15:31,454 --> 01:15:33,954
they would go and start to be opportunists

1991
01:15:34,335 --> 01:15:34,994
on other

1992
01:15:35,770 --> 01:15:38,409
necessary food sources that are not the target

1993
01:15:38,409 --> 01:15:40,409
pest and you know, it's true. You know,

1994
01:15:40,409 --> 01:15:41,689
when I when I reach out to my

1995
01:15:41,689 --> 01:15:43,689
you know, my corporate rep and you know,

1996
01:15:43,689 --> 01:15:45,130
I don't have a big garden but I

1997
01:15:45,130 --> 01:15:46,969
figure out what I need with them and

1998
01:15:46,969 --> 01:15:49,465
then and then I get my, my my

1999
01:15:49,465 --> 01:15:51,944
bugs and I'm like I'm like, okay. The

2000
01:15:51,944 --> 01:15:54,664
the application rate says this much. And then

2001
01:15:54,664 --> 01:15:56,984
I apply it to my, you know, pretty

2002
01:15:56,984 --> 01:15:58,904
pretty small garden. And then I look and

2003
01:15:58,904 --> 01:16:00,604
there's all this left in the bottle

2004
01:16:00,930 --> 01:16:03,489
and I I'll cop to this. I'm like,

2005
01:16:03,489 --> 01:16:05,890
I've got extra. They'll be more safe if

2006
01:16:05,890 --> 01:16:07,029
I add the rest.

2007
01:16:07,329 --> 01:16:09,569
Uh-huh. And and, like, I've I've done that

2008
01:16:09,569 --> 01:16:12,704
every year. And and now I'm realizing that,

2009
01:16:12,945 --> 01:16:15,585
it's actually working against me. And really, what

2010
01:16:15,585 --> 01:16:17,984
I should do is hand those beneficial insects

2011
01:16:17,984 --> 01:16:20,305
off to a friend for their garden. Yeah.

2012
01:16:20,305 --> 01:16:22,465
Yeah. Somebody else who can really use them

2013
01:16:22,465 --> 01:16:24,164
and will see that benefit.

2014
01:16:24,545 --> 01:16:26,085
Because you've used them before,

2015
01:16:26,739 --> 01:16:28,119
you probably have

2016
01:16:29,140 --> 01:16:30,520
a certain amount of

2017
01:16:30,820 --> 01:16:31,800
the beneficials

2018
01:16:32,579 --> 01:16:36,100
present because they leave eggs, they leave dormant

2019
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:36,600
stages,

2020
01:16:36,979 --> 01:16:39,380
and they'll be up and moving doing their

2021
01:16:39,380 --> 01:16:39,880
thing.

2022
01:16:41,055 --> 01:16:42,735
You probably don't have to add as much

2023
01:16:42,735 --> 01:16:45,215
in the second year. So, you know, give

2024
01:16:45,215 --> 01:16:47,135
it to friends, give it to people and

2025
01:16:47,135 --> 01:16:48,815
say, you know, tell me how it how

2026
01:16:48,815 --> 01:16:50,815
it works out for you. And then pretty

2027
01:16:50,815 --> 01:16:52,275
soon you have another client.

2028
01:16:54,909 --> 01:16:56,770
I wanna hit on the pathogen,

2029
01:16:57,229 --> 01:16:59,390
topic. Again, you were talking about,

2030
01:17:00,030 --> 01:17:02,909
you know, when people drop, necrotic leaves on

2031
01:17:02,909 --> 01:17:05,310
the floor of the, you know, anywhere, greenhouse

2032
01:17:05,310 --> 01:17:07,010
or outside in their garden or whatever.

2033
01:17:07,465 --> 01:17:09,465
You know, it's it's incredibly common for cannabis

2034
01:17:09,465 --> 01:17:11,805
cultivators to defoliate their plants

2035
01:17:12,265 --> 01:17:13,965
to open up airflow

2036
01:17:14,344 --> 01:17:15,324
towards the inside

2037
01:17:15,625 --> 01:17:18,425
or to remove yellowing leaves and and place

2038
01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:20,685
them on the surface of the pot.

2039
01:17:21,090 --> 01:17:22,310
And, you know, the

2040
01:17:22,689 --> 01:17:24,449
the the kind of bro science idea is

2041
01:17:24,449 --> 01:17:26,229
to, like, you know, return the nutrients

2042
01:17:26,770 --> 01:17:28,630
in the leaf back to the plant.

2043
01:17:29,010 --> 01:17:30,689
It'll be good for the plant because I'm

2044
01:17:30,689 --> 01:17:31,829
just returning nutrition.

2045
01:17:32,449 --> 01:17:35,885
But on shaping fire episode 88, plant pathologist

2046
01:17:36,184 --> 01:17:38,824
Cora McGee suggested that all those leaves should

2047
01:17:38,824 --> 01:17:41,564
be removed from the cultivation area totally

2048
01:17:42,104 --> 01:17:44,125
to prevent the spread of pathogens.

2049
01:17:44,585 --> 01:17:46,984
What are your thought on this very common

2050
01:17:46,984 --> 01:17:48,364
practice of cultivators

2051
01:17:48,744 --> 01:17:49,564
to put

2052
01:17:49,969 --> 01:17:52,289
the like, even the healthy leaves that they

2053
01:17:52,289 --> 01:17:52,949
take off

2054
01:17:53,250 --> 01:17:55,010
onto the top of the pot instead of,

2055
01:17:55,010 --> 01:17:56,609
you know, removing them from the grow area

2056
01:17:56,609 --> 01:17:59,170
to, like, the compost or something. Yep. Well,

2057
01:17:59,170 --> 01:18:01,109
if you have no biology

2058
01:18:01,810 --> 01:18:02,710
in your dirt,

2059
01:18:03,564 --> 01:18:05,244
then yeah you have to do what she

2060
01:18:05,244 --> 01:18:05,744
said.

2061
01:18:06,125 --> 01:18:07,184
Because there's

2062
01:18:08,284 --> 01:18:09,904
those leaves, brown,

2063
01:18:11,164 --> 01:18:11,664
diseased,

2064
01:18:12,684 --> 01:18:13,184
happy,

2065
01:18:14,684 --> 01:18:15,824
good leaf material,

2066
01:18:17,510 --> 01:18:19,690
the diseases are going to take those over

2067
01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:22,650
and serve to increase the disease.

2068
01:18:23,190 --> 01:18:25,369
If you have no decent biology

2069
01:18:25,909 --> 01:18:28,229
in that soil, if you're trying to grow

2070
01:18:28,229 --> 01:18:29,369
plants in dirt,

2071
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:31,935
it's not going to work very well.

2072
01:18:32,494 --> 01:18:34,755
But if you are using a biological

2073
01:18:35,055 --> 01:18:37,715
approach and you've got these really good organisms

2074
01:18:38,015 --> 01:18:39,314
in your soil,

2075
01:18:39,774 --> 01:18:40,274
then

2076
01:18:41,055 --> 01:18:43,555
the way to tell if it's working

2077
01:18:44,190 --> 01:18:46,050
that, you drop those

2078
01:18:46,430 --> 01:18:49,170
infected leaves on the surface of your soil,

2079
01:18:49,550 --> 01:18:51,970
you should see by the next day

2080
01:18:52,430 --> 01:18:53,890
that things are happening.

2081
01:18:54,270 --> 01:18:56,930
These leaves are getting eaten, they're being decomposed,

2082
01:18:57,070 --> 01:18:58,770
they're being turned into

2083
01:18:59,150 --> 01:18:59,650
soil

2084
01:19:00,135 --> 01:19:03,335
as you watch. So how long is it

2085
01:19:03,335 --> 01:19:04,635
going to take for

2086
01:19:06,375 --> 01:19:10,074
a small cannabis leaf to decompose? Couple days.

2087
01:19:11,095 --> 01:19:12,534
How about a bigger one? What if we've

2088
01:19:12,534 --> 01:19:14,470
got a real big, well it would help

2089
01:19:14,470 --> 01:19:16,149
if you shredded that up a little bit

2090
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:17,670
and put it on the surface of the

2091
01:19:17,670 --> 01:19:20,409
soil because in a couple days

2092
01:19:20,949 --> 01:19:23,989
those materials would be gone as well. You

2093
01:19:23,989 --> 01:19:26,170
might still see the skeleton

2094
01:19:26,854 --> 01:19:28,314
of the major veins

2095
01:19:28,694 --> 01:19:31,015
for a couple more days than you see

2096
01:19:31,015 --> 01:19:32,395
the green plant material,

2097
01:19:33,414 --> 01:19:35,114
but it should all decompose.

2098
01:19:35,574 --> 01:19:37,274
If it doesn't decompose

2099
01:19:38,774 --> 01:19:41,114
then mother nature is trying to tell you

2100
01:19:41,654 --> 01:19:44,109
that you don't have all of the biology

2101
01:19:44,109 --> 01:19:46,350
that you need in here. Please go get

2102
01:19:46,350 --> 01:19:47,090
your microscope.

2103
01:19:47,869 --> 01:19:50,529
Go take a look at what the biology

2104
01:19:50,829 --> 01:19:54,130
is in this area. Why aren't they here?

2105
01:19:54,994 --> 01:19:57,234
Because they should be if you used good

2106
01:19:57,234 --> 01:20:00,595
compost, good compost teas, you should have all

2107
01:20:00,595 --> 01:20:02,435
of those organisms in the soil and that

2108
01:20:02,435 --> 01:20:03,734
decomposition should be

2109
01:20:04,114 --> 01:20:04,614
overnight.

2110
01:20:05,555 --> 01:20:07,734
So if it takes too long a time,

2111
01:20:07,939 --> 01:20:09,960
you probably want to try to figure out

2112
01:20:10,179 --> 01:20:11,800
who killed your microorganisms

2113
01:20:12,340 --> 01:20:13,699
in this part of the pile or in

2114
01:20:13,699 --> 01:20:14,679
this part of

2115
01:20:14,979 --> 01:20:15,479
your

2116
01:20:16,100 --> 01:20:17,960
growing system or greenhouse.

2117
01:20:18,579 --> 01:20:19,079
And

2118
01:20:19,539 --> 01:20:22,600
quite often we discover the places where

2119
01:20:22,975 --> 01:20:23,715
your neighbor

2120
01:20:24,814 --> 01:20:28,914
sprayed something and that spray blew into your

2121
01:20:30,494 --> 01:20:30,994
operation.

2122
01:20:31,774 --> 01:20:34,094
And so right here we're not seeing any

2123
01:20:34,094 --> 01:20:36,034
decomposition because we got glyphosate

2124
01:20:37,300 --> 01:20:39,320
in here and that killed your organisms.

2125
01:20:39,860 --> 01:20:41,780
Well, it's not gonna take that much trouble

2126
01:20:41,780 --> 01:20:43,780
for you to go get a little bit

2127
01:20:43,780 --> 01:20:45,699
of your compost and sprinkle it over that

2128
01:20:45,699 --> 01:20:48,119
area and make sure that the decomposition

2129
01:20:48,500 --> 01:20:49,960
comes along right away,

2130
01:20:50,515 --> 01:20:51,015
and

2131
01:20:51,555 --> 01:20:53,875
then you're good to go. So we have

2132
01:20:53,875 --> 01:20:57,395
very simple solutions to some of these quite

2133
01:20:57,395 --> 01:20:58,614
complex problems

2134
01:20:59,074 --> 01:21:01,015
that other people have. Mhmm.

2135
01:21:02,034 --> 01:21:05,689
It's interesting to tease out the differences in

2136
01:21:05,689 --> 01:21:08,029
perspectives of scientists because,

2137
01:21:09,689 --> 01:21:12,090
I can see very clearly now that, you

2138
01:21:12,090 --> 01:21:14,109
know, Cora offered that opinion

2139
01:21:14,810 --> 01:21:18,255
because she works in a fusarium

2140
01:21:18,555 --> 01:21:19,854
laboratory greenhouse

2141
01:21:20,234 --> 01:21:20,734
using

2142
01:21:21,354 --> 01:21:24,015
sterile soil because they're studying fusarium.

2143
01:21:24,875 --> 01:21:27,194
And so for her, she doesn't have the

2144
01:21:27,194 --> 01:21:27,694
strength

2145
01:21:28,074 --> 01:21:31,539
in her growing system of a very active

2146
01:21:31,539 --> 01:21:32,039
living

2147
01:21:32,340 --> 01:21:32,840
soil

2148
01:21:33,380 --> 01:21:35,619
because that would get in the way of

2149
01:21:35,619 --> 01:21:38,020
their measuring things, right, and and and ensuring

2150
01:21:38,020 --> 01:21:39,640
it. So it's always interesting

2151
01:21:40,020 --> 01:21:41,619
to to be able to tease that out

2152
01:21:41,619 --> 01:21:43,860
because so many people in Canos, they will

2153
01:21:43,860 --> 01:21:46,284
argue, well, you know, this specialist thinks this

2154
01:21:46,284 --> 01:21:48,524
and this specialist thinks that, and and, you

2155
01:21:48,524 --> 01:21:49,965
know, one of them has to be wrong.

2156
01:21:49,965 --> 01:21:52,364
And I'm always like, you know, you really

2157
01:21:52,364 --> 01:21:54,784
only you've only learned that kind of like

2158
01:21:54,925 --> 01:21:57,244
at a t shirt quote level, you know?

2159
01:21:57,244 --> 01:21:58,899
Like like like, you really need to understand

2160
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:00,820
what's behind what they're thinking

2161
01:22:01,359 --> 01:22:04,000
before before you get all evangelist about it

2162
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,560
or or especially angry about it. Yeah. Yeah.

2163
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:08,720
And, you know, ready to choose somebody up

2164
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:10,399
one side and down the other, which is

2165
01:22:10,399 --> 01:22:13,114
not a fun thing to to do. When

2166
01:22:13,114 --> 01:22:15,055
if they just took a step back,

2167
01:22:15,835 --> 01:22:18,015
viewed the system and realized

2168
01:22:18,475 --> 01:22:19,935
what's actually going on,

2169
01:22:21,034 --> 01:22:21,614
you know,

2170
01:22:22,555 --> 01:22:25,774
we aren't going against the principles of

2171
01:22:27,150 --> 01:22:28,289
chemical agriculture.

2172
01:22:28,750 --> 01:22:31,229
We're just paying attention to what mother nature

2173
01:22:31,229 --> 01:22:32,850
has already put in place.

2174
01:22:33,150 --> 01:22:35,070
And mother nature has been working in these

2175
01:22:35,070 --> 01:22:37,650
systems. Well, I've been working on this planet

2176
01:22:38,524 --> 01:22:41,244
ever since rooted plants arrived on the planet

2177
01:22:41,244 --> 01:22:43,725
which was a billion years ago. Mother Nature

2178
01:22:43,725 --> 01:22:44,864
has had a billion

2179
01:22:45,244 --> 01:22:45,744
years

2180
01:22:46,125 --> 01:22:47,585
to figure out these interactions

2181
01:22:48,125 --> 01:22:50,524
to keep all of these wonderful plants alive

2182
01:22:50,524 --> 01:22:51,185
and functioning.

2183
01:22:51,965 --> 01:22:53,585
If she didn't work,

2184
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:56,390
then we would be in serious trouble. We

2185
01:22:56,390 --> 01:22:57,609
wouldn't have these plants.

2186
01:22:58,149 --> 01:23:00,149
So we've got to learn the messages from

2187
01:23:00,149 --> 01:23:02,810
nature. We haven't figured them all out yet.

2188
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:06,069
So, you know, please come work in the

2189
01:23:06,069 --> 01:23:07,770
lab with us for a while and

2190
01:23:08,135 --> 01:23:09,895
discover all of these things, and then you

2191
01:23:09,895 --> 01:23:11,594
too can get your name in lights.

2192
01:23:13,734 --> 01:23:14,234
So,

2193
01:23:15,094 --> 01:23:17,975
you know, we're big fans of living soil.

2194
01:23:17,975 --> 01:23:19,574
I mean, you and I both personally, but

2195
01:23:19,574 --> 01:23:21,814
also, like, shaping fire program. We we we

2196
01:23:21,814 --> 01:23:24,510
talk primarily about living soil. We don't talk

2197
01:23:24,510 --> 01:23:25,489
a whole lot about

2198
01:23:25,869 --> 01:23:28,449
about hydro unless it's, you know, a special

2199
01:23:29,710 --> 01:23:31,810
water food web kind of hydro

2200
01:23:32,350 --> 01:23:32,850
setup.

2201
01:23:33,229 --> 01:23:33,550
But,

2202
01:23:34,189 --> 01:23:37,090
using a blend of cocoa coir and peat

2203
01:23:37,095 --> 01:23:38,074
is wildly

2204
01:23:38,695 --> 01:23:41,994
popular in cannabis cultivation at the moment, especially,

2205
01:23:42,375 --> 01:23:46,375
like, bagged cocoa coir and peat with, often

2206
01:23:46,375 --> 01:23:47,595
with, you know, preloaded

2207
01:23:48,135 --> 01:23:49,435
with nutrients.

2208
01:23:51,150 --> 01:23:51,650
And,

2209
01:23:52,829 --> 01:23:54,989
but it isn't soil. Right? And and the

2210
01:23:54,989 --> 01:23:57,070
biology of these pots seems like it would

2211
01:23:57,070 --> 01:23:58,369
be significantly

2212
01:23:58,750 --> 01:23:59,650
lacking in

2213
01:24:00,110 --> 01:24:02,770
soil food web biology that makes plant

2214
01:24:03,070 --> 01:24:05,070
living in soil thrive. Right? Because they don't

2215
01:24:05,070 --> 01:24:07,045
have the the sand, silt, and clay, and

2216
01:24:07,045 --> 01:24:08,664
organic material in them.

2217
01:24:10,085 --> 01:24:11,524
What are your thoughts? Like, how how do

2218
01:24:11,524 --> 01:24:12,024
you,

2219
01:24:12,564 --> 01:24:14,664
how do you teach this idea of

2220
01:24:15,045 --> 01:24:15,784
of of

2221
01:24:16,244 --> 01:24:18,185
the threshold between using

2222
01:24:18,564 --> 01:24:20,725
soil, which has got, you know, sand, silt,

2223
01:24:20,725 --> 01:24:21,864
clay, organic material

2224
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:22,979
versus using,

2225
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,420
coir and peat with with nutrients

2226
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:31,140
because they they both grow

2227
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,359
plants and people are very satisfied with their

2228
01:24:35,359 --> 01:24:38,104
cocoa plants. But I feel like they're leaving

2229
01:24:38,244 --> 01:24:38,744
some

2230
01:24:39,364 --> 01:24:39,864
taste

2231
01:24:40,404 --> 01:24:41,944
and pest resistance

2232
01:24:42,645 --> 01:24:46,005
and resilience and health, like like, on the

2233
01:24:46,005 --> 01:24:49,204
table because they're choosing, like, a half step

2234
01:24:49,204 --> 01:24:51,284
and not going all the way to living

2235
01:24:51,284 --> 01:24:53,679
soil. What are your thoughts on these these

2236
01:24:53,679 --> 01:24:55,060
coco peat mixes?

2237
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:56,979
Cocoa

2238
01:24:57,359 --> 01:24:58,260
and peat,

2239
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:00,899
probably need to be sterile.

2240
01:25:01,279 --> 01:25:03,060
You know, this is one of those situations

2241
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:04,604
where it probably,

2242
01:25:05,064 --> 01:25:06,204
because you've got

2243
01:25:06,505 --> 01:25:08,925
the material in a plastic bag sealed,

2244
01:25:09,465 --> 01:25:12,364
and if there's any active organisms in there,

2245
01:25:12,425 --> 01:25:14,984
they're going to start growing on all that

2246
01:25:14,984 --> 01:25:17,784
great organic material in there, and your bag

2247
01:25:17,784 --> 01:25:19,564
is going to puff up and explode.

2248
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:23,380
So they have to have,

2249
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:27,279
use some kind of toxic material in order

2250
01:25:27,279 --> 01:25:29,439
to kill off the organisms in that peat

2251
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:31,279
and coconut core. Could it just be like

2252
01:25:31,279 --> 01:25:33,234
heat or pressure, or does it know what

2253
01:25:33,475 --> 01:25:36,114
Could be. It depends on exactly what they're

2254
01:25:36,114 --> 01:25:38,274
set up to do. So, you know One

2255
01:25:38,274 --> 01:25:40,594
way or another, they're denaturing it. Right. Yeah.

2256
01:25:40,594 --> 01:25:41,094
They're

2257
01:25:41,395 --> 01:25:43,954
exiting that from the system. They're making certain

2258
01:25:43,954 --> 01:25:46,375
that they're nothing's growing in there.

2259
01:25:46,930 --> 01:25:49,569
So now when you add your organisms, say,

2260
01:25:49,569 --> 01:25:50,789
in a good compost,

2261
01:25:51,649 --> 01:25:54,630
you're gonna see some initial lag before

2262
01:25:55,409 --> 01:25:58,149
the organisms really get going. And often,

2263
01:25:58,529 --> 01:25:59,670
if the concentration

2264
01:25:59,970 --> 01:26:01,430
of that toxic material

2265
01:26:01,914 --> 01:26:03,215
was really high,

2266
01:26:03,994 --> 01:26:05,935
you won't see any microbial

2267
01:26:06,314 --> 01:26:07,695
growth and therefore you're

2268
01:26:08,555 --> 01:26:09,215
not getting

2269
01:26:09,835 --> 01:26:11,774
what you put the peat and

2270
01:26:13,914 --> 01:26:17,170
coconut coir in there to do, which is

2271
01:26:17,170 --> 01:26:20,069
provide a food resource for the microorganisms

2272
01:26:20,529 --> 01:26:23,109
that you want to help your plant.

2273
01:26:23,810 --> 01:26:26,609
When we get into an understanding of what's

2274
01:26:26,609 --> 01:26:28,389
the difference between soil

2275
01:26:28,929 --> 01:26:30,149
and dirt,

2276
01:26:30,965 --> 01:26:32,585
Dirt is just

2277
01:26:33,524 --> 01:26:35,465
the mineral materials.

2278
01:26:35,925 --> 01:26:38,585
So the sand, the sills, the clays

2279
01:26:39,284 --> 01:26:39,784
are

2280
01:26:40,564 --> 01:26:41,064
produced

2281
01:26:42,085 --> 01:26:43,145
by weathering

2282
01:26:44,140 --> 01:26:47,119
and that used to be the biggest thing

2283
01:26:47,180 --> 01:26:47,680
that,

2284
01:26:48,300 --> 01:26:50,319
could start breaking down

2285
01:26:50,859 --> 01:26:53,979
the boulders and the parent material and the

2286
01:26:53,979 --> 01:26:57,545
rocks and etcetera into sandstone play. But as

2287
01:26:57,545 --> 01:26:58,364
soon as microorganisms

2288
01:26:58,744 --> 01:27:00,445
came along, it's the microorganisms

2289
01:27:00,984 --> 01:27:02,364
that do that decomposition

2290
01:27:02,905 --> 01:27:03,805
of the rocks,

2291
01:27:04,744 --> 01:27:06,125
pebbles, everything else.

2292
01:27:06,425 --> 01:27:09,405
And that's what's producing sand, silk and clay.

2293
01:27:09,930 --> 01:27:12,030
So very specialized niche,

2294
01:27:12,810 --> 01:27:14,650
you don't need many of them because they're

2295
01:27:14,650 --> 01:27:16,350
not really going to be helping your

2296
01:27:16,650 --> 01:27:18,030
plants along, but

2297
01:27:18,489 --> 01:27:20,810
mother nature needs to have them out there

2298
01:27:20,810 --> 01:27:23,145
so we can go ahead and get those

2299
01:27:23,145 --> 01:27:23,645
nutrients.

2300
01:27:27,385 --> 01:27:28,364
So I've defined

2301
01:27:28,664 --> 01:27:29,164
dirt,

2302
01:27:29,944 --> 01:27:31,484
just the mineral component.

2303
01:27:31,944 --> 01:27:34,045
When you're talking about soil,

2304
01:27:34,489 --> 01:27:36,650
you have to add, and this is according

2305
01:27:36,650 --> 01:27:37,630
to the work of

2306
01:27:38,170 --> 01:27:41,210
Hans Jenny, one of the fathers of soil

2307
01:27:41,210 --> 01:27:41,710
science.

2308
01:27:42,090 --> 01:27:44,970
He defines soil very clearly as being the

2309
01:27:44,970 --> 01:27:47,470
mineral component, the sand, the silica, clay,

2310
01:27:48,435 --> 01:27:50,854
but you also have to have organic matter

2311
01:27:50,914 --> 01:27:53,335
in order to feed your microorganisms

2312
01:27:54,835 --> 01:27:56,935
and then you have to have the beneficial

2313
01:27:57,154 --> 01:27:57,654
microorganisms,

2314
01:27:58,194 --> 01:28:00,914
the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes at the very

2315
01:28:00,914 --> 01:28:01,414
least

2316
01:28:02,010 --> 01:28:03,310
and then more

2317
01:28:03,850 --> 01:28:06,810
micro arthropods, macro arthropods, spiders, and all those

2318
01:28:06,810 --> 01:28:10,010
things also play into a really good well

2319
01:28:10,010 --> 01:28:10,510
rounded

2320
01:28:11,050 --> 01:28:11,550
soil.

2321
01:28:12,250 --> 01:28:14,984
So that's the difference between those two things.

2322
01:28:17,465 --> 01:28:19,804
The mix that you talked about is just

2323
01:28:19,864 --> 01:28:20,364
food,

2324
01:28:21,064 --> 01:28:24,444
organic matter. That's all that's going in, especially

2325
01:28:24,664 --> 01:28:26,204
since they had to

2326
01:28:28,425 --> 01:28:29,725
destroy the biology

2327
01:28:30,510 --> 01:28:32,609
on that organic material

2328
01:28:32,909 --> 01:28:34,050
in order for it

2329
01:28:34,430 --> 01:28:35,250
to sit happily

2330
01:28:36,029 --> 01:28:37,970
on the shelf in the greenhouse,

2331
01:28:38,750 --> 01:28:41,329
in the store, wherever they're storing it.

2332
01:28:41,949 --> 01:28:42,449
So

2333
01:28:43,149 --> 01:28:46,130
we wanna make certain that we get

2334
01:28:47,114 --> 01:28:50,395
that planting material out and mix it with

2335
01:28:50,395 --> 01:28:51,375
our compost,

2336
01:28:52,314 --> 01:28:54,574
making sure that the compost

2337
01:28:55,034 --> 01:28:57,994
isn't killed by the toxic chemicals that were

2338
01:28:57,994 --> 01:29:00,710
used to kill everything in the in that

2339
01:29:00,710 --> 01:29:02,250
organic matter. Okay?

2340
01:29:02,710 --> 01:29:04,550
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna take it one

2341
01:29:04,550 --> 01:29:06,550
more step and put a little sharper edge

2342
01:29:06,550 --> 01:29:08,390
on it. And the reason I'm doing this

2343
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:09,050
is because,

2344
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:11,430
so many people so many, you know, newer

2345
01:29:11,430 --> 01:29:14,069
growers ask me about cocopeat mixes. And, you

2346
01:29:14,069 --> 01:29:15,284
know, I I I don't I don't wanna

2347
01:29:15,284 --> 01:29:18,405
repeat inaccurate or incomplete information. So, well, I

2348
01:29:18,405 --> 01:29:20,244
wanna take it one more step. Let's say

2349
01:29:20,244 --> 01:29:22,824
that we're that that the person is using

2350
01:29:22,885 --> 01:29:26,185
a coco peat mix that has been,

2351
01:29:26,725 --> 01:29:27,945
denatured or sterilized

2352
01:29:28,485 --> 01:29:28,985
with

2353
01:29:29,630 --> 01:29:30,849
with heat or pressure.

2354
01:29:31,389 --> 01:29:33,889
And so we're not talking about residual toxins.

2355
01:29:34,349 --> 01:29:36,270
And and then the folks bring it home,

2356
01:29:36,270 --> 01:29:38,829
and they they they they fill their, you

2357
01:29:38,829 --> 01:29:41,729
know, containers with the Coco Pete blend.

2358
01:29:42,175 --> 01:29:44,515
And then because they want to,

2359
01:29:45,135 --> 01:29:48,675
capture, you know, some active biological activity,

2360
01:29:49,295 --> 01:29:51,954
they'll pour compost teas in there.

2361
01:29:52,335 --> 01:29:54,659
And and it be you know, many people

2362
01:29:54,659 --> 01:29:57,079
have the ideas like, okay. Now my preferred

2363
01:29:57,300 --> 01:29:59,000
substrate that I like to use

2364
01:29:59,460 --> 01:30:00,359
now has

2365
01:30:00,979 --> 01:30:03,219
microbe life in it because I just poured

2366
01:30:03,219 --> 01:30:05,319
my my tea in there.

2367
01:30:05,619 --> 01:30:08,225
And I've always resisted this idea after,

2368
01:30:08,625 --> 01:30:11,024
Jeff Lowenfeld's kinda said it real easy. He

2369
01:30:11,024 --> 01:30:13,024
said he said, you know, it's not living

2370
01:30:13,024 --> 01:30:15,524
soil if if worms aren't living in there.

2371
01:30:15,824 --> 01:30:17,925
And and and, you know, that that generally,

2372
01:30:18,619 --> 01:30:20,380
you know, it it doesn't apply to or

2373
01:30:20,380 --> 01:30:22,300
that that's not gonna happen in this kind

2374
01:30:22,300 --> 01:30:24,699
of like coco peat mix I'm talking about.

2375
01:30:24,699 --> 01:30:27,020
So so what are your thoughts on a,

2376
01:30:27,180 --> 01:30:29,760
you know, starting with a nontoxic but sterile

2377
01:30:29,819 --> 01:30:31,760
coco peat blend and then adding

2378
01:30:32,344 --> 01:30:35,085
compost teas, does does that get you there?

2379
01:30:36,744 --> 01:30:37,885
It certainly should,

2380
01:30:38,344 --> 01:30:41,304
especially if that compost that you use to

2381
01:30:41,304 --> 01:30:43,564
make the extract and then the tea,

2382
01:30:44,585 --> 01:30:45,484
if it has

2383
01:30:45,789 --> 01:30:47,789
the spores as well as any of the

2384
01:30:47,789 --> 01:30:48,770
dormant stages

2385
01:30:49,310 --> 01:30:51,889
washed off that leaf material, that compost material

2386
01:30:52,189 --> 01:30:54,350
and into the water that you're now going

2387
01:30:54,350 --> 01:30:55,010
to inoculate

2388
01:30:55,710 --> 01:30:57,010
on the peat moss

2389
01:30:57,469 --> 01:30:57,969
and

2390
01:30:58,909 --> 01:30:59,409
core.

2391
01:31:01,085 --> 01:31:03,164
It's always a question of how much you

2392
01:31:03,164 --> 01:31:06,045
don't want to overdo because that's a really

2393
01:31:06,045 --> 01:31:07,585
strong food resource.

2394
01:31:08,284 --> 01:31:11,804
And you might have such a rapid growth

2395
01:31:11,804 --> 01:31:12,545
of microorganisms

2396
01:31:13,650 --> 01:31:16,449
in your beds that now that Since you're

2397
01:31:16,449 --> 01:31:19,650
starting from zero. Yeah. Uh-huh. Because, you know,

2398
01:31:19,650 --> 01:31:21,110
you now let this,

2399
01:31:21,729 --> 01:31:24,470
you know, goodly amount may be too much.

2400
01:31:25,329 --> 01:31:27,409
You know, and how do you determine what's

2401
01:31:27,409 --> 01:31:29,784
too little and what's too much? And we

2402
01:31:29,784 --> 01:31:33,304
often encourage our students to do a little

2403
01:31:33,304 --> 01:31:35,885
bit of testing in small containers.

2404
01:31:36,585 --> 01:31:38,204
So take a handful of

2405
01:31:38,744 --> 01:31:39,244
your

2406
01:31:39,784 --> 01:31:42,125
compost, take a handful of the

2407
01:31:42,449 --> 01:31:42,949
pea

2408
01:31:43,729 --> 01:31:45,189
and coir mixture

2409
01:31:45,810 --> 01:31:48,369
and mix it all up. Now put some

2410
01:31:48,369 --> 01:31:50,609
of your compost tea in there at the

2411
01:31:50,609 --> 01:31:51,109
concentration

2412
01:31:51,810 --> 01:31:53,430
that's the same as outside

2413
01:31:54,210 --> 01:31:55,829
and watch and see what's happening.

2414
01:31:56,164 --> 01:31:58,005
And if you come by the next morning

2415
01:31:58,005 --> 01:32:00,645
and you go, what is wrong with the

2416
01:32:00,725 --> 01:32:03,045
there's a smell in here. Where's that coming

2417
01:32:03,045 --> 01:32:05,465
from? Smells like someone vomited.

2418
01:32:05,765 --> 01:32:07,444
And you realize that that's your,

2419
01:32:07,765 --> 01:32:09,385
little container of,

2420
01:32:10,005 --> 01:32:10,965
core and,

2421
01:32:11,284 --> 01:32:11,784
etcetera.

2422
01:32:13,409 --> 01:32:16,210
You put in too much biology. That's too

2423
01:32:16,210 --> 01:32:18,310
much food for them. So

2424
01:32:18,690 --> 01:32:19,590
crank down

2425
01:32:19,970 --> 01:32:22,690
the amount of compost that you're putting in

2426
01:32:22,690 --> 01:32:24,150
with all those great organisms,

2427
01:32:26,045 --> 01:32:28,125
reduce it by half and see if you

2428
01:32:28,125 --> 01:32:30,845
don't get a better effect. You don't really

2429
01:32:30,845 --> 01:32:32,925
want to be experimenting with something where you

2430
01:32:32,925 --> 01:32:35,265
just put your valuable plants into.

2431
01:32:35,965 --> 01:32:38,125
And you know, the next morning it's, Oh

2432
01:32:38,125 --> 01:32:38,625
surprise,

2433
01:32:40,100 --> 01:32:41,859
how dead is that plant going to be?

2434
01:32:41,859 --> 01:32:42,359
Mhmm.

2435
01:32:42,739 --> 01:32:43,239
So

2436
01:32:44,260 --> 01:32:44,760
that's

2437
01:32:45,140 --> 01:32:46,899
the care that I would want to have

2438
01:32:46,899 --> 01:32:49,539
people take. Get that microscope out, take a

2439
01:32:49,539 --> 01:32:51,640
look at the biology that's present.

2440
01:32:53,645 --> 01:32:56,444
As soon as you mixed everything together and

2441
01:32:56,444 --> 01:32:57,904
then twenty four hours later

2442
01:32:58,204 --> 01:33:01,005
take another look and see that everything has

2443
01:33:01,005 --> 01:33:02,545
just gone gangbusters

2444
01:33:02,845 --> 01:33:05,265
and, you know, it's Florida sealing

2445
01:33:05,779 --> 01:33:06,279
bacteria

2446
01:33:06,579 --> 01:33:08,680
squished into small places.

2447
01:33:09,060 --> 01:33:09,560
Not

2448
01:33:09,939 --> 01:33:12,039
what we want. That's too rich

2449
01:33:12,659 --> 01:33:14,359
for your plants, so back off.

2450
01:33:14,659 --> 01:33:16,420
So it sounds like if I were to

2451
01:33:16,420 --> 01:33:19,335
kind of, tie this all together into a,

2452
01:33:19,414 --> 01:33:21,494
you know, a quickie best practice, it would

2453
01:33:21,494 --> 01:33:21,994
be,

2454
01:33:22,614 --> 01:33:23,435
if you,

2455
01:33:24,935 --> 01:33:26,875
prefer to use cocoa and peat,

2456
01:33:27,335 --> 01:33:30,954
and make make sure that they are, denaturing

2457
01:33:31,414 --> 01:33:34,760
from something nontoxic like pressure or heat. And

2458
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:36,619
then once you get it to your house

2459
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:39,880
and you wanna add biology to it, go

2460
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,680
ahead and use your compost teas, but start

2461
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,000
slow and low so that you, you know,

2462
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:46,600
you don't, you know, push it too far

2463
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:48,494
too fast. And I would think that,

2464
01:33:49,055 --> 01:33:51,534
I would wanna encourage people to also use

2465
01:33:51,534 --> 01:33:52,195
a variety

2466
01:33:52,655 --> 01:33:54,994
of of teas and, like,

2467
01:33:55,774 --> 01:33:58,255
worm casting extracts and things like that. So

2468
01:33:58,255 --> 01:34:01,314
you're continuing to add variety to the pot

2469
01:34:01,454 --> 01:34:02,675
in slow amounts

2470
01:34:03,055 --> 01:34:05,270
as you go. And, you know, it it

2471
01:34:05,270 --> 01:34:06,329
won't ever become

2472
01:34:06,710 --> 01:34:10,010
living soil, but but if you've chosen cocoa,

2473
01:34:10,390 --> 01:34:12,949
this is gonna be your your best way

2474
01:34:12,949 --> 01:34:14,970
to also have a,

2475
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:16,409
an active biology.

2476
01:34:17,014 --> 01:34:18,935
Yeah. And I Mhmm. Yeah. For me, it's

2477
01:34:18,935 --> 01:34:20,314
it's still a compost

2478
01:34:20,694 --> 01:34:21,755
because the,

2479
01:34:22,454 --> 01:34:23,675
core and the,

2480
01:34:25,335 --> 01:34:28,135
the peat moss, those are just foods for

2481
01:34:28,135 --> 01:34:28,795
your microorganisms.

2482
01:34:29,929 --> 01:34:30,909
So they're,

2483
01:34:31,449 --> 01:34:33,389
you know, you're going to have to

2484
01:34:33,689 --> 01:34:36,649
replenish that food or maybe, you know, as

2485
01:34:36,649 --> 01:34:37,789
you're taking

2486
01:34:38,250 --> 01:34:40,170
a little bit of compost, you have a

2487
01:34:40,170 --> 01:34:42,090
little bit left over, spread it out on

2488
01:34:42,090 --> 01:34:43,609
this field so you get a little bit

2489
01:34:43,609 --> 01:34:45,664
of the sand silt clay mixed in.

2490
01:34:46,684 --> 01:34:49,484
Yeah. That's interesting. I never considered quora food.

2491
01:34:49,484 --> 01:34:51,324
And and as it degrades, I can see

2492
01:34:51,324 --> 01:34:53,005
how how it would be. I've always kind

2493
01:34:53,005 --> 01:34:54,524
of thought of it as like akin to

2494
01:34:54,524 --> 01:34:55,024
Styrofoam.

2495
01:34:55,484 --> 01:34:58,304
Yeah. Nope. It's definitely a carbon source. Mhmm.

2496
01:34:58,364 --> 01:35:00,224
Yep. And your fungi need that.

2497
01:35:00,539 --> 01:35:02,479
Bacteria don't like it much because

2498
01:35:03,020 --> 01:35:03,520
bacteria

2499
01:35:04,139 --> 01:35:06,779
have a carbon to nitrogen ratio typically down

2500
01:35:06,779 --> 01:35:07,260
around,

2501
01:35:07,739 --> 01:35:09,760
10 carbons for every one nitrogen,

2502
01:35:10,139 --> 01:35:13,260
which means, all bacteria are desperately in search

2503
01:35:13,260 --> 01:35:14,000
of nitrogen.

2504
01:35:14,515 --> 01:35:16,354
And they get all the carbon they could

2505
01:35:16,354 --> 01:35:18,595
possibly ever use and they blow it off

2506
01:35:18,595 --> 01:35:20,135
as CO2. So

2507
01:35:20,435 --> 01:35:22,435
they are not the organisms we want in

2508
01:35:22,435 --> 01:35:23,175
our soils

2509
01:35:23,635 --> 01:35:25,494
if we're trying to sequester carbon.

2510
01:35:25,954 --> 01:35:28,029
You want to get the fungi growing because

2511
01:35:28,029 --> 01:35:30,429
fungi have a C:N ratio of up around

2512
01:35:30,429 --> 01:35:31,090
100

2513
01:35:31,550 --> 01:35:33,569
to one. And so the fungi

2514
01:35:34,189 --> 01:35:36,529
will take all that extra carbon

2515
01:35:36,829 --> 01:35:38,850
and put it inside its empty

2516
01:35:39,310 --> 01:35:42,210
fungal tubes, the empty hyphae.

2517
01:35:42,675 --> 01:35:43,175
And

2518
01:35:43,555 --> 01:35:44,215
that prevents

2519
01:35:44,515 --> 01:35:47,814
micro arthropods from being able to eat

2520
01:35:48,595 --> 01:35:49,095
the

2521
01:35:50,435 --> 01:35:50,935
fungus.

2522
01:35:51,475 --> 01:35:53,734
So it's a really good way to

2523
01:35:54,114 --> 01:35:57,069
put things away in a very safe place

2524
01:35:57,069 --> 01:35:59,090
for a very long period of time.

2525
01:35:59,390 --> 01:36:02,210
So if you're ever thinking of, carbon sequestration,

2526
01:36:02,750 --> 01:36:04,850
keep that in mind. Right on.

2527
01:36:05,949 --> 01:36:07,949
I'm really grateful to that you went down

2528
01:36:07,949 --> 01:36:09,869
that path with me because, I'm much happier

2529
01:36:09,869 --> 01:36:11,204
because, you know, historically,

2530
01:36:11,505 --> 01:36:14,945
my my Coco friends, you know, I I,

2531
01:36:14,945 --> 01:36:16,305
you know, kinda make it a habit to

2532
01:36:16,305 --> 01:36:18,784
ask them hard questions about the biology. And

2533
01:36:18,784 --> 01:36:20,465
instead of being a jerk like that, I

2534
01:36:20,465 --> 01:36:22,064
can I can go to them like, oh,

2535
01:36:22,064 --> 01:36:24,229
do you know doctor Elaine's best practices for

2536
01:36:24,229 --> 01:36:26,390
this? Here, let me support you in in

2537
01:36:26,390 --> 01:36:28,390
your chosen way. And I think that's a

2538
01:36:28,390 --> 01:36:30,489
much better way to interact with my friends.

2539
01:36:30,869 --> 01:36:33,350
Yeah. I just, you know, why why are

2540
01:36:33,350 --> 01:36:35,829
they taking the peat moss? There's so many

2541
01:36:35,829 --> 01:36:36,329
other,

2542
01:36:37,454 --> 01:36:39,954
good sources of food for the microorganisms

2543
01:36:42,015 --> 01:36:43,875
right around you, in your natural

2544
01:36:44,175 --> 01:36:47,475
biome, in the habitat you're in. Why buy

2545
01:36:47,534 --> 01:36:49,715
something like peat moss

2546
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:52,699
that's destroying an ecosystem someplace

2547
01:36:53,639 --> 01:36:56,059
and using that as food for your microorganisms?

2548
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,479
Why not, you know, well there's lots of

2549
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:02,779
other places where you could get waste

2550
01:37:03,319 --> 01:37:04,300
organic matter

2551
01:37:04,715 --> 01:37:05,215
And

2552
01:37:05,595 --> 01:37:08,255
as long as you're keeping some eye on

2553
01:37:08,795 --> 01:37:11,114
how much banana peel and how much oats

2554
01:37:11,114 --> 01:37:13,194
and how much of what are your kids

2555
01:37:13,194 --> 01:37:13,694
eating

2556
01:37:14,395 --> 01:37:16,015
and you're putting in the garbage,

2557
01:37:17,449 --> 01:37:19,789
dry it out every night. There are dryers

2558
01:37:19,850 --> 01:37:22,430
that you can buy that are very inexpensive,

2559
01:37:23,130 --> 01:37:25,689
and then you just, when you finish drying

2560
01:37:25,689 --> 01:37:28,329
it down you just crunch everything up and

2561
01:37:28,329 --> 01:37:29,229
put it in

2562
01:37:29,530 --> 01:37:30,989
a bag in the refrigerator.

2563
01:37:32,465 --> 01:37:33,284
And so you

2564
01:37:33,585 --> 01:37:34,724
can make your own

2565
01:37:35,425 --> 01:37:36,244
peat moss.

2566
01:37:37,744 --> 01:37:38,244
So,

2567
01:37:39,824 --> 01:37:42,545
while peat certainly has a use use as

2568
01:37:42,545 --> 01:37:43,204
a source,

2569
01:37:43,744 --> 01:37:45,659
most of the time I'm hearing people say

2570
01:37:45,659 --> 01:37:47,340
that they like the peat in the mix

2571
01:37:47,340 --> 01:37:48,140
because it,

2572
01:37:48,539 --> 01:37:50,399
retains water and it helps

2573
01:37:50,779 --> 01:37:52,800
kind of, like, balance the water

2574
01:37:53,100 --> 01:37:54,719
that's in a container.

2575
01:37:55,500 --> 01:37:56,564
Is there a,

2576
01:37:57,125 --> 01:38:00,164
is there something else that you prefer to

2577
01:38:00,164 --> 01:38:00,664
peat

2578
01:38:01,045 --> 01:38:01,685
to help,

2579
01:38:02,244 --> 01:38:04,965
kind of stretch out a watering and kind

2580
01:38:04,965 --> 01:38:05,545
of help

2581
01:38:06,885 --> 01:38:07,385
regulate

2582
01:38:07,685 --> 01:38:08,185
how

2583
01:38:08,564 --> 01:38:10,859
wet the pot is or or or rather

2584
01:38:10,859 --> 01:38:13,420
that will sustain the watering a little longer

2585
01:38:13,420 --> 01:38:14,719
in a balanced way?

2586
01:38:15,500 --> 01:38:18,239
Yeah. You wanna get the particles

2587
01:38:18,779 --> 01:38:19,679
in the,

2588
01:38:20,219 --> 01:38:20,719
whatever

2589
01:38:21,020 --> 01:38:23,600
your like the my example of

2590
01:38:24,744 --> 01:38:26,664
the food, waste food in your kitchen and

2591
01:38:26,664 --> 01:38:28,425
you dry it down and you grind it

2592
01:38:28,425 --> 01:38:28,925
up

2593
01:38:29,225 --> 01:38:31,704
and now you take it out of wherever

2594
01:38:31,704 --> 01:38:34,364
you're storing it because if it's completely dry

2595
01:38:34,505 --> 01:38:36,284
you don't have to worry about it.

2596
01:38:37,130 --> 01:38:39,530
And take that out now and how much

2597
01:38:39,530 --> 01:38:41,789
water will that dried material

2598
01:38:42,250 --> 01:38:44,890
be able to hold? And usually it's quite

2599
01:38:44,890 --> 01:38:46,189
close to peat moss.

2600
01:38:47,050 --> 01:38:50,010
So I kind of think of those kinds

2601
01:38:50,010 --> 01:38:50,510
of

2602
01:38:51,050 --> 01:38:51,550
materials

2603
01:38:52,465 --> 01:38:55,204
because it's a diversity, you've got some potato,

2604
01:38:55,265 --> 01:38:58,305
you've got some banana, you've got what else

2605
01:38:58,305 --> 01:39:01,125
did your kid not eat, broccoli, cauliflower,

2606
01:39:03,104 --> 01:39:05,425
and you dry them down and now how

2607
01:39:05,425 --> 01:39:07,440
much water will it take to wet that

2608
01:39:07,440 --> 01:39:08,880
back up? And I think you'd see it

2609
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,060
was very close to the peat moss.

2610
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:12,960
Thank you for that. I've only ever thought

2611
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:15,360
about those scraps as a food source and

2612
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:16,180
not as

2613
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:19,039
a, you know Water holding a hydration. Yeah.

2614
01:39:19,039 --> 01:39:21,305
Totally. So Yeah. Alright. So we're gonna go

2615
01:39:21,305 --> 01:39:22,905
ahead and take our second short break and

2616
01:39:22,905 --> 01:39:24,824
be right back. You are listening to Shaping

2617
01:39:24,824 --> 01:39:27,485
Fire and my guest today is doctor Elaniam.

2618
01:39:31,064 --> 01:39:33,305
This message is for folks who grow cannabis.

2619
01:39:33,305 --> 01:39:35,880
I'm talking to home growers, patients, and commercial

2620
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:38,840
growers too. I'm probably talking to you. When

2621
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:40,840
you plan out your next growing cycle, be

2622
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:44,039
sure to check out Humboldt CSI seeds at

2623
01:39:44,039 --> 01:39:46,140
humboldtcsi.com.

2624
01:39:46,425 --> 01:39:48,664
Caleb Inspecta and his family have lived in

2625
01:39:48,664 --> 01:39:51,064
Humboldt County for over a hundred years. For

2626
01:39:51,064 --> 01:39:53,465
the last forty years, three generations of his

2627
01:39:53,465 --> 01:39:56,585
family have cultivated extraordinary sense of mia cannabis

2628
01:39:56,585 --> 01:39:59,164
in Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity Counties.

2629
01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:02,239
Because of his lineage and the hard earned

2630
01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:05,039
experience that comes from growing up smoking and

2631
01:40:05,039 --> 01:40:07,679
sifting large populations of cannabis plants in Northern

2632
01:40:07,679 --> 01:40:08,179
California,

2633
01:40:08,719 --> 01:40:10,880
the seeds you'll cop from CSI will be

2634
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:11,779
winning genetics

2635
01:40:12,154 --> 01:40:14,895
based on long time heavy hitters and updated

2636
01:40:14,954 --> 01:40:17,114
and resifted to bring out new and exotic

2637
01:40:17,114 --> 01:40:18,494
traits and better yields.

2638
01:40:18,954 --> 01:40:21,435
Go ahead and ask around. Caleb, also known

2639
01:40:21,435 --> 01:40:24,074
as Inspecta and Pirates of the Emerald Triangle,

2640
01:40:24,074 --> 01:40:26,770
is a breeder's breeder. He reaches way back

2641
01:40:26,770 --> 01:40:28,550
and works with significant strains,

2642
01:40:28,850 --> 01:40:31,170
recreating them in new and interesting ways that

2643
01:40:31,170 --> 01:40:33,510
you'll love as a toker and a grower

2644
01:40:33,649 --> 01:40:35,729
as well as offering you some surprises that

2645
01:40:35,729 --> 01:40:38,149
will delight serious seed traders and cultivators.

2646
01:40:39,085 --> 01:40:42,224
Humboldt CSI goes a further step and selfs

2647
01:40:42,364 --> 01:40:44,604
all these chemovars so you know all the

2648
01:40:44,604 --> 01:40:45,744
seeds will be female.

2649
01:40:46,045 --> 01:40:48,784
These are not experimental feminized seeds.

2650
01:40:49,085 --> 01:40:51,724
Humboldt CSI releases some of the best female

2651
01:40:51,724 --> 01:40:54,310
seeds available anywhere and it will show in

2652
01:40:54,310 --> 01:40:54,890
your garden.

2653
01:40:55,590 --> 01:40:57,670
Folks grew quite a bit of CSI Humboldt

2654
01:40:57,670 --> 01:40:59,750
Gen X last year here on Vashon Island

2655
01:40:59,750 --> 01:41:02,890
and everyone was pleased. The patients had beautiful

2656
01:41:02,949 --> 01:41:05,270
female plants and didn't have to cull half

2657
01:41:05,270 --> 01:41:06,649
of their garden as males.

2658
01:41:07,024 --> 01:41:08,945
The folks growing for the fun of getting

2659
01:41:08,945 --> 01:41:12,225
high grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal

2660
01:41:12,225 --> 01:41:15,265
and great highs. And breeders had seven out

2661
01:41:15,265 --> 01:41:17,265
of seven females in a pack which gave

2662
01:41:17,265 --> 01:41:19,125
them a lot of phenotypic choices.

2663
01:41:19,909 --> 01:41:24,310
Take a moment right now and visit humboldtcsi.com.

2664
01:41:24,310 --> 01:41:26,070
You'll find an up to date menu of

2665
01:41:26,070 --> 01:41:29,030
both feminized and regular lines along with photos

2666
01:41:29,030 --> 01:41:29,689
and descriptions.

2667
01:41:30,149 --> 01:41:33,289
That's humboldtcsi.com.

2668
01:41:36,364 --> 01:41:38,284
You've heard me talk about the award winning

2669
01:41:38,284 --> 01:41:40,604
cannabis seeds that come from the analytical breeding

2670
01:41:40,604 --> 01:41:43,164
program of Seth and Eric Crawford who founded

2671
01:41:43,164 --> 01:41:46,204
Oregon CBD seeds. In fact, Seth was a

2672
01:41:46,204 --> 01:41:48,385
guest on Shaping Fire in 2020

2673
01:41:48,525 --> 01:41:50,225
to talk about triploid genetics.

2674
01:41:51,130 --> 01:41:53,630
Seth and Eric are now releasing high THC

2675
01:41:53,770 --> 01:41:56,409
seeds for home growers and farms as Grow

2676
01:41:56,409 --> 01:41:57,070
The Revolution

2677
01:41:57,610 --> 01:42:00,350
seeds at gtrseeds.com.

2678
01:42:00,970 --> 01:42:03,390
Their high THC seeds are extraordinary

2679
01:42:03,850 --> 01:42:06,104
in that they will start to flower at

2680
01:42:06,185 --> 01:42:08,425
sixteen and a half hours of daylight instead

2681
01:42:08,425 --> 01:42:10,505
of the typical fourteen and a half hours

2682
01:42:10,505 --> 01:42:13,704
of daylight. That means in most regions, your

2683
01:42:13,704 --> 01:42:15,784
plants will start to flower outdoors in the

2684
01:42:15,784 --> 01:42:16,765
July

2685
01:42:17,145 --> 01:42:18,765
instead of the August,

2686
01:42:19,070 --> 01:42:22,050
which means these photoperiod plants finish in September

2687
01:42:22,270 --> 01:42:23,409
and not October,

2688
01:42:23,869 --> 01:42:26,530
totally upending the photoperiod seed market.

2689
01:42:27,150 --> 01:42:29,810
Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering

2690
01:42:29,949 --> 01:42:32,155
CBG line and bred it to some of

2691
01:42:32,155 --> 01:42:35,775
the most desired verified genetics out there, including

2692
01:42:35,835 --> 01:42:39,595
Sour Diesel, Triangle Kush, Wedding Cake, Chemdog, Skittles,

2693
01:42:39,595 --> 01:42:40,335
and others.

2694
01:42:40,715 --> 01:42:44,475
These crosses all express powerful photoperiod terpene profiles

2695
01:42:44,475 --> 01:42:45,215
and THC,

2696
01:42:45,699 --> 01:42:47,079
giving you a great high.

2697
01:42:47,780 --> 01:42:51,220
GTR Seeds has a new THCV line with

2698
01:42:51,220 --> 01:42:53,319
plants like Double Durban and Gigantor

2699
01:42:53,619 --> 01:42:56,680
that boast one to one THC to THCV.

2700
01:42:57,300 --> 01:42:58,920
And people want that THCV.

2701
01:43:00,155 --> 01:43:02,255
GTR seeds are very consistent,

2702
01:43:02,715 --> 01:43:06,655
true growing inbred f ones from stabilized inbred

2703
01:43:06,795 --> 01:43:07,534
parent lines.

2704
01:43:07,835 --> 01:43:09,854
These seeds are nearly homogeneous,

2705
01:43:10,235 --> 01:43:12,494
and the plants should all grow the same.

2706
01:43:12,710 --> 01:43:15,449
There is only one phenotype in every pack,

2707
01:43:15,670 --> 01:43:17,609
available as diploids and triploids.

2708
01:43:18,389 --> 01:43:20,810
Seth and Eric's company is still family owned,

2709
01:43:20,869 --> 01:43:23,670
patient and employee centric, and partially powered by

2710
01:43:23,670 --> 01:43:25,529
their two acres of solar panels.

2711
01:43:26,114 --> 01:43:28,354
Everyone can purchase these seeds and the entire

2712
01:43:28,354 --> 01:43:33,335
catalog of Oregon CBD seeds at gtrseeds.com.

2713
01:43:33,554 --> 01:43:35,394
Go to gtrseeds.com

2714
01:43:35,394 --> 01:43:37,414
today and choose something revolutionary

2715
01:43:37,715 --> 01:43:39,814
for your next indoor or outdoor run.

2716
01:43:42,860 --> 01:43:45,979
As consumers become more educated and regulations become

2717
01:43:45,979 --> 01:43:48,539
more demanding, it is increasingly important to avoid

2718
01:43:48,539 --> 01:43:51,280
the use of chemical pesticides when cultivating cannabis.

2719
01:43:51,979 --> 01:43:54,380
Beneficial insects have been used for decades by

2720
01:43:54,380 --> 01:43:57,395
the greenhouse vegetable and ornament plant industry and

2721
01:43:57,395 --> 01:44:00,195
today many cannabis cultivators are moving from sprays

2722
01:44:00,195 --> 01:44:02,375
and chemicals to beneficial insects.

2723
01:44:03,074 --> 01:44:06,435
Natural enemies has the beneficial insects, mites and

2724
01:44:06,435 --> 01:44:06,935
nematodes,

2725
01:44:07,555 --> 01:44:08,055
microbials,

2726
01:44:08,420 --> 01:44:11,300
sticky cards and air distribution units you need

2727
01:44:11,300 --> 01:44:14,039
to partner with nature to defend your garden.

2728
01:44:14,500 --> 01:44:16,979
Whether you manage acres of canopy or have

2729
01:44:16,979 --> 01:44:19,300
a simple grow tent in your home, Natural

2730
01:44:19,300 --> 01:44:21,719
Enemies is ready to help answer your questions

2731
01:44:21,859 --> 01:44:24,935
and help transition away from chemical sprays towards

2732
01:44:24,935 --> 01:44:26,474
clean and natural solutions.

2733
01:44:27,414 --> 01:44:30,474
Natural Enemies was founded in the cannabis industry

2734
01:44:30,534 --> 01:44:33,354
and continues to provide cannabis specific guidance.

2735
01:44:33,895 --> 01:44:35,250
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2736
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2737
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2738
01:44:42,689 --> 01:44:45,029
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2739
01:44:45,329 --> 01:44:48,850
pests and devising reliable solutions while providing healthy

2740
01:44:48,850 --> 01:44:51,225
insects and mites that will protect your yield.

2741
01:44:51,784 --> 01:44:54,185
Since the nineteen ninety's, Kopert has been a

2742
01:44:54,185 --> 01:44:57,005
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2743
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2744
01:44:59,625 --> 01:45:01,864
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2745
01:45:01,864 --> 01:45:02,604
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2746
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2747
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,140
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2748
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,760
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2749
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:14,239
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2750
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2751
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:18,500
today.

2752
01:45:19,194 --> 01:45:21,354
Welcome back. You are listening to shaping fire.

2753
01:45:21,354 --> 01:45:23,354
I'm your host, Shango Los, and my guest

2754
01:45:23,354 --> 01:45:24,975
today is doctor Elaine Ingham.

2755
01:45:25,594 --> 01:45:28,314
So doctor Elaine, you know, in regenerative farming,

2756
01:45:28,314 --> 01:45:30,975
we do our best to mimic nature itself,

2757
01:45:31,034 --> 01:45:33,274
to support it, and, you know, use nature

2758
01:45:33,274 --> 01:45:34,494
to repair itself.

2759
01:45:35,109 --> 01:45:37,449
Does that make a case for cultivators

2760
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:39,210
to emphasize

2761
01:45:39,829 --> 01:45:40,329
compost

2762
01:45:40,789 --> 01:45:41,289
extracts

2763
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:43,609
over aerated

2764
01:45:43,909 --> 01:45:45,050
compost teas?

2765
01:45:45,590 --> 01:45:47,130
Because, you know, burgeoning

2766
01:45:47,430 --> 01:45:51,045
incubated populations of oxygen loving microbes are pretty

2767
01:45:51,045 --> 01:45:53,465
unlikely to occur naturally in the soil,

2768
01:45:53,925 --> 01:45:55,545
while compost extracts

2769
01:45:56,005 --> 01:45:58,984
really more effectively bio mimic what happens

2770
01:45:59,364 --> 01:46:00,024
in nature

2771
01:46:00,645 --> 01:46:03,925
by seeping into plant material and then seeping

2772
01:46:03,925 --> 01:46:06,479
through it as we find in nature. So

2773
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:08,239
so how should we wrap our heads around

2774
01:46:08,239 --> 01:46:08,739
that?

2775
01:46:10,159 --> 01:46:12,500
It's one of these cases of it depends.

2776
01:46:13,280 --> 01:46:15,520
You have to take a step back and

2777
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:17,300
look at what you want

2778
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:18,420
as,

2779
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:19,939
the outcome

2780
01:46:20,395 --> 01:46:21,215
of applying

2781
01:46:21,914 --> 01:46:23,135
these different materials.

2782
01:46:23,755 --> 01:46:25,774
So for example, with a compost,

2783
01:46:26,154 --> 01:46:29,054
you're gonna put it down someplace that needs

2784
01:46:29,114 --> 01:46:32,094
the organic matter as well as the organisms

2785
01:46:32,635 --> 01:46:33,135
replenished

2786
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:35,659
in that soil. And so typically

2787
01:46:36,199 --> 01:46:37,979
right down the furrow or

2788
01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:39,979
right around the trees

2789
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:41,979
in

2790
01:46:43,479 --> 01:46:44,220
a orchard

2791
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,260
or something, you know, with shrubs or

2792
01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:48,779
blueberries, whatever.

2793
01:46:49,274 --> 01:46:52,414
When we're looking at compost tea, that's

2794
01:46:52,875 --> 01:46:54,814
really the organisms as they

2795
01:46:55,194 --> 01:46:56,335
typically exist

2796
01:46:56,715 --> 01:46:57,215
in

2797
01:46:57,994 --> 01:46:59,215
our close,

2798
01:47:01,435 --> 01:47:04,015
the closest we ever come to making soil.

2799
01:47:05,460 --> 01:47:08,039
Those organisms we want to extract,

2800
01:47:09,539 --> 01:47:10,199
the concentration

2801
01:47:10,819 --> 01:47:12,279
that you need to

2802
01:47:12,739 --> 01:47:14,199
put into your system

2803
01:47:15,219 --> 01:47:17,380
to get the biology back up to where

2804
01:47:17,380 --> 01:47:18,039
it belongs.

2805
01:47:18,435 --> 01:47:20,774
So when we're going through succession

2806
01:47:21,395 --> 01:47:23,715
and we're trying to understand that early in

2807
01:47:23,715 --> 01:47:25,414
succession it's strictly bacterial,

2808
01:47:26,194 --> 01:47:28,295
midway through succession it's

2809
01:47:28,994 --> 01:47:29,494
fiftyfifty

2810
01:47:30,515 --> 01:47:32,375
fungi bacteria. When it's

2811
01:47:32,914 --> 01:47:34,340
in an old growth forest

2812
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:35,380
it's

2813
01:47:36,399 --> 01:47:39,139
a 100 to a thousand times more

2814
01:47:40,159 --> 01:47:43,380
fungi than bacteria in the system. And so

2815
01:47:43,679 --> 01:47:44,179
understanding

2816
01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:46,579
that we are going to

2817
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:47,460
extract

2818
01:47:48,395 --> 01:47:48,795
the,

2819
01:47:49,195 --> 01:47:49,695
compost

2820
01:47:50,315 --> 01:47:50,815
and,

2821
01:47:51,435 --> 01:47:52,335
apply it

2822
01:47:53,034 --> 01:47:54,494
as that amendment.

2823
01:47:54,954 --> 01:47:55,454
Everybody's

2824
01:47:55,755 --> 01:47:57,614
gonna be asleep normally,

2825
01:47:58,395 --> 01:48:00,475
that is supposed to be asleep at that

2826
01:48:00,475 --> 01:48:03,369
time. Anything that's supposed to be happening now,

2827
01:48:03,369 --> 01:48:05,470
that's already happening in the compost.

2828
01:48:05,850 --> 01:48:07,390
So when you do the extraction,

2829
01:48:08,090 --> 01:48:11,210
these organisms go out hopefully more or less

2830
01:48:11,210 --> 01:48:13,930
in the balances that we wanna see. So

2831
01:48:13,930 --> 01:48:16,029
we'll take a look using our microscopes

2832
01:48:16,614 --> 01:48:18,854
to determine if what I'm putting on is

2833
01:48:18,854 --> 01:48:19,755
strictly bacterial,

2834
01:48:20,055 --> 01:48:21,734
and that's gonna help those,

2835
01:48:22,135 --> 01:48:23,835
early successional systems

2836
01:48:24,295 --> 01:48:26,795
that we probably don't want because

2837
01:48:27,414 --> 01:48:29,640
early successional systems are,

2838
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:32,860
are gonna be mostly weeds

2839
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:36,280
and you know things that aren't crops. They're

2840
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:39,020
not really anything that farmers wanna see.

2841
01:48:39,399 --> 01:48:40,140
If we

2842
01:48:40,760 --> 01:48:42,539
improve that fungal component

2843
01:48:43,145 --> 01:48:44,744
then we're going to be putting on an

2844
01:48:44,744 --> 01:48:47,005
equal biomass of fungi and bacteria

2845
01:48:47,465 --> 01:48:50,425
and we're selecting for the more productive plants

2846
01:48:50,425 --> 01:48:51,244
in the system,

2847
01:48:51,545 --> 01:48:53,085
you know, grasses and

2848
01:48:53,385 --> 01:48:53,885
vegetables,

2849
01:48:54,345 --> 01:48:57,300
those kinds of plants. As we go over

2850
01:48:57,300 --> 01:48:59,939
the edge into a fungal dominated system and

2851
01:48:59,939 --> 01:49:00,599
now we're

2852
01:49:00,899 --> 01:49:02,599
promoting the growth of

2853
01:49:03,139 --> 01:49:04,599
shrubs and trees,

2854
01:49:06,340 --> 01:49:08,760
the higher in that successional process

2855
01:49:09,244 --> 01:49:12,284
up into the old growth system, we're going

2856
01:49:12,284 --> 01:49:14,704
to be just pushing fungi like crazy.

2857
01:49:15,164 --> 01:49:17,664
So how much biology

2858
01:49:18,284 --> 01:49:21,104
do you need to be putting out and

2859
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:24,239
of what type? So answering those kinds of

2860
01:49:24,239 --> 01:49:28,020
questions, if we've made a compost tea, extracted

2861
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:30,340
the organisms from

2862
01:49:30,719 --> 01:49:31,539
the compost

2863
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:34,319
into a liquid form because it's way easier

2864
01:49:34,319 --> 01:49:36,425
to apply a liquid than it is to

2865
01:49:36,425 --> 01:49:38,364
apply that solid material.

2866
01:49:38,984 --> 01:49:42,024
We're drenching right around the base of all

2867
01:49:42,024 --> 01:49:45,225
of the plants that we are concerned about

2868
01:49:45,225 --> 01:49:46,045
that we want

2869
01:49:46,425 --> 01:49:48,930
to get going and making sure that that

2870
01:49:48,930 --> 01:49:51,810
fungal to bacterial ratio is what it needs

2871
01:49:51,810 --> 01:49:52,550
to be.

2872
01:49:54,369 --> 01:49:56,530
So typically that's what we're going to be

2873
01:49:56,530 --> 01:49:57,030
applying.

2874
01:49:57,489 --> 01:49:58,630
We will

2875
01:49:59,570 --> 01:50:00,310
let that

2876
01:50:00,850 --> 01:50:01,989
do its thing

2877
01:50:03,015 --> 01:50:04,775
about, for about a week and we'll go

2878
01:50:04,775 --> 01:50:05,735
back and take a,

2879
01:50:06,534 --> 01:50:07,435
another sample

2880
01:50:07,735 --> 01:50:10,395
and look at what's happened in that soil.

2881
01:50:10,695 --> 01:50:11,755
Has the biology

2882
01:50:12,135 --> 01:50:14,534
improved? And if we're trying for something that's

2883
01:50:14,534 --> 01:50:16,395
equal biomass, fungi and bacteria,

2884
01:50:17,039 --> 01:50:18,659
are both the bacteria and fungi

2885
01:50:19,039 --> 01:50:19,539
getting,

2886
01:50:20,239 --> 01:50:21,619
higher and higher in value?

2887
01:50:22,079 --> 01:50:24,179
That's what we wanna see. So we're constantly

2888
01:50:24,319 --> 01:50:26,719
checking. What if you see the, you know,

2889
01:50:26,719 --> 01:50:27,039
the,

2890
01:50:27,760 --> 01:50:30,159
place that you were hoping for both bacteria

2891
01:50:30,159 --> 01:50:32,675
and fungi to grow and the fungi are

2892
01:50:32,675 --> 01:50:34,454
just taken off like crazy.

2893
01:50:35,074 --> 01:50:37,095
Well, that's not good for

2894
01:50:37,555 --> 01:50:40,135
the plant we're trying to grow. Our plant

2895
01:50:40,274 --> 01:50:41,734
needs equal biomass.

2896
01:50:42,274 --> 01:50:44,935
So we'll go back and we'll, develop,

2897
01:50:45,795 --> 01:50:47,255
like a compost tea

2898
01:50:47,610 --> 01:50:49,630
where we're going to be putting in

2899
01:50:50,010 --> 01:50:50,510
bacterial

2900
01:50:50,890 --> 01:50:51,390
foods.

2901
01:50:51,770 --> 01:50:54,170
So we're getting the bacteria up to where

2902
01:50:54,170 --> 01:50:56,329
it's going to equal what's going on with

2903
01:50:56,329 --> 01:50:56,989
the fungi.

2904
01:50:57,610 --> 01:50:59,689
And so then that gets applied. Well what

2905
01:50:59,689 --> 01:51:01,369
if it was the other way around? Well

2906
01:51:01,369 --> 01:51:02,989
then we would put in foods

2907
01:51:03,564 --> 01:51:04,704
that would improve

2908
01:51:05,244 --> 01:51:05,744
the,

2909
01:51:06,925 --> 01:51:09,104
the fungi instead of the bacteria.

2910
01:51:09,564 --> 01:51:13,164
So we have these, you know, tests along

2911
01:51:13,164 --> 01:51:15,564
the way to make sure everything's going the

2912
01:51:15,564 --> 01:51:16,305
right direction.

2913
01:51:17,010 --> 01:51:17,670
If you,

2914
01:51:18,130 --> 01:51:20,609
don't have a microscope and you put things

2915
01:51:20,609 --> 01:51:23,750
on, you're just crossing your fingers and hoping

2916
01:51:23,810 --> 01:51:26,630
that mother nature is going to be kind

2917
01:51:26,689 --> 01:51:28,850
to you. And, you know, mother nature, I

2918
01:51:28,850 --> 01:51:31,329
think, has a not so wonderful attitude about

2919
01:51:31,329 --> 01:51:32,229
human beings

2920
01:51:32,965 --> 01:51:35,465
because we have not been doing nice things

2921
01:51:35,925 --> 01:51:36,744
to her

2922
01:51:37,284 --> 01:51:38,744
work on this planet.

2923
01:51:39,444 --> 01:51:42,164
And so we've gotta fix this and get

2924
01:51:42,164 --> 01:51:43,944
it back to where it needs to be.

2925
01:51:44,005 --> 01:51:46,564
And so here you have all of the

2926
01:51:46,564 --> 01:51:47,064
tools

2927
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:48,899
that you need to have. Now

2928
01:51:49,679 --> 01:51:50,179
with

2929
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:51,219
a compost

2930
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:52,020
tea,

2931
01:51:52,719 --> 01:51:56,000
in general the reason why we would be

2932
01:51:56,000 --> 01:51:59,199
making a compost tea is because we've got

2933
01:51:59,199 --> 01:52:02,739
to up the amount of bacteria or fungi.

2934
01:52:03,904 --> 01:52:04,965
We also,

2935
01:52:05,505 --> 01:52:06,404
when we're looking

2936
01:52:06,704 --> 01:52:09,125
at the above ground part of the plant,

2937
01:52:09,824 --> 01:52:11,204
the form of

2938
01:52:12,064 --> 01:52:12,564
putting

2939
01:52:13,024 --> 01:52:15,425
the biology back out there is going to

2940
01:52:15,425 --> 01:52:16,859
be as a compost tea.

2941
01:52:17,340 --> 01:52:19,420
Because we wanna look and see what's going

2942
01:52:19,420 --> 01:52:20,319
on. If,

2943
01:52:22,779 --> 01:52:25,659
everything's going just fine, probably we put out

2944
01:52:25,659 --> 01:52:28,399
something that was equal biomass, fungi, and bacteria

2945
01:52:28,539 --> 01:52:31,755
for any tree that's out there. Well, you

2946
01:52:31,755 --> 01:52:33,755
do wanna pay pay attention to your soil

2947
01:52:33,755 --> 01:52:35,454
because when you apply the tea

2948
01:52:35,914 --> 01:52:37,135
to the foliage,

2949
01:52:37,755 --> 01:52:40,654
you're also going to be getting some of

2950
01:52:41,435 --> 01:52:43,295
the compost tea on the ground.

2951
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:44,640
So, you know, it

2952
01:52:45,359 --> 01:52:47,199
you've gotta be looking at what's going on

2953
01:52:47,199 --> 01:52:49,039
in the ground. You've gotta be looking at

2954
01:52:49,039 --> 01:52:50,340
what's happening in the,

2955
01:52:51,119 --> 01:52:52,260
in the foliage

2956
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:54,020
so that you determine

2957
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:56,414
what kind of tea are you gonna be

2958
01:52:56,414 --> 01:52:58,335
making, what kinds of foods are you gonna

2959
01:52:58,335 --> 01:52:59,795
be adding into that system.

2960
01:53:00,655 --> 01:53:01,155
So

2961
01:53:02,255 --> 01:53:05,614
I mostly only use compost teas if I've

2962
01:53:05,614 --> 01:53:07,155
got disease causing problems

2963
01:53:07,695 --> 01:53:08,595
in the foliage.

2964
01:53:09,010 --> 01:53:11,649
And then it's strictly a foliar spray, I'm

2965
01:53:11,649 --> 01:53:14,470
not, drenching it on the soil at all.

2966
01:53:15,250 --> 01:53:18,050
And so we typically get rid of those

2967
01:53:18,050 --> 01:53:19,590
diseases very rapidly.

2968
01:53:20,770 --> 01:53:22,689
If you can get out at the beginning

2969
01:53:22,689 --> 01:53:24,550
of the growing season, you know

2970
01:53:25,864 --> 01:53:29,885
that there's a particular disease that this orchard

2971
01:53:30,265 --> 01:53:31,885
or this these plants

2972
01:53:32,585 --> 01:53:33,405
are very,

2973
01:53:34,265 --> 01:53:36,925
likely to have problems. They have,

2974
01:53:37,539 --> 01:53:39,619
you know, the growers are saying, you know,

2975
01:53:39,619 --> 01:53:42,500
every year we've been applying these toxic chemicals

2976
01:53:42,500 --> 01:53:44,819
and the toxic chemicals just aren't doing the

2977
01:53:44,819 --> 01:53:47,079
job anymore. What are we supposed to do?

2978
01:53:47,380 --> 01:53:47,880
Well,

2979
01:53:48,260 --> 01:53:50,420
you come along and we'll put the compost

2980
01:53:50,420 --> 01:53:52,614
tea out there. And it does a very

2981
01:53:52,614 --> 01:53:55,034
good job on dealing with

2982
01:53:55,335 --> 01:53:57,514
every disease organisms. There's several

2983
01:53:58,054 --> 01:54:01,574
recent papers in the scientific literature showing that

2984
01:54:01,574 --> 01:54:04,234
if they put a good compost tea out,

2985
01:54:04,454 --> 01:54:05,994
that they can deal with Fusarium.

2986
01:54:07,989 --> 01:54:09,130
No problem there.

2987
01:54:09,590 --> 01:54:11,829
You know, when we are dealing with different,

2988
01:54:11,829 --> 01:54:14,149
you know, like Dutch Elm disease, no problem

2989
01:54:14,149 --> 01:54:17,130
there. We've got that one figured out. So

2990
01:54:17,510 --> 01:54:19,750
in some cases, we may have to go

2991
01:54:19,750 --> 01:54:20,250
into

2992
01:54:20,550 --> 01:54:21,210
the plantation

2993
01:54:21,664 --> 01:54:22,324
or into

2994
01:54:22,704 --> 01:54:24,244
the agricultural field,

2995
01:54:24,945 --> 01:54:26,725
and figure out,

2996
01:54:27,905 --> 01:54:30,085
how to get rid of a disease

2997
01:54:30,704 --> 01:54:32,485
by applying in the foliage.

2998
01:54:33,970 --> 01:54:35,489
And most of the time we get it

2999
01:54:35,489 --> 01:54:37,810
figured out after, you know, just a couple

3000
01:54:37,810 --> 01:54:40,770
weeks what we need to do to give

3001
01:54:40,770 --> 01:54:41,270
constant

3002
01:54:41,970 --> 01:54:43,189
protection to the plant.

3003
01:54:43,649 --> 01:54:46,149
And remember that it's not just the organisms

3004
01:54:46,210 --> 01:54:49,435
you're putting out, it's the fact that you're

3005
01:54:49,435 --> 01:54:49,935
getting

3006
01:54:50,395 --> 01:54:52,954
nutrient cycling going again in the root system.

3007
01:54:52,954 --> 01:54:55,675
You're making certain that that plant has all

3008
01:54:55,675 --> 01:54:58,255
the nutrients it needs to express

3009
01:54:59,274 --> 01:55:00,494
the disease protection.

3010
01:55:01,159 --> 01:55:04,439
To express that resistance to diseases and pests

3011
01:55:04,439 --> 01:55:05,739
and problem organisms.

3012
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:08,219
So it's a whole system

3013
01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:09,659
working together.

3014
01:55:10,039 --> 01:55:10,520
And,

3015
01:55:11,479 --> 01:55:13,639
so hopefully you can see why it's,

3016
01:55:15,375 --> 01:55:16,114
it depends

3017
01:55:16,574 --> 01:55:18,414
kind of answer. Yeah. It is a depends

3018
01:55:18,414 --> 01:55:20,255
kind of answer. And and I wanna I

3019
01:55:20,255 --> 01:55:22,835
wanna, focus on one thing you said because,

3020
01:55:23,295 --> 01:55:24,514
perhaps I misunderstood.

3021
01:55:26,494 --> 01:55:28,814
I believe I heard you say that, you

3022
01:55:28,814 --> 01:55:31,300
really only use compost tea,

3023
01:55:32,399 --> 01:55:34,639
if there is an imbalance in the plant.

3024
01:55:34,639 --> 01:55:36,420
And then if you do use it,

3025
01:55:37,439 --> 01:55:39,760
you use it as a foliar and not

3026
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:41,219
as a root drench.

3027
01:55:41,679 --> 01:55:43,519
And and if I heard you correctly, my

3028
01:55:43,519 --> 01:55:45,539
question is this. If

3029
01:55:46,454 --> 01:55:48,694
if it's important for us that the plant

3030
01:55:48,694 --> 01:55:52,635
has the nutrition it needs to remain robust

3031
01:55:52,774 --> 01:55:54,635
and have an active rhizosphere,

3032
01:55:55,014 --> 01:55:55,514
so

3033
01:55:55,814 --> 01:55:57,435
everybody's communing and communicating

3034
01:55:57,814 --> 01:55:59,654
and trading and the and the plants getting

3035
01:55:59,654 --> 01:56:00,635
what its needs,

3036
01:56:01,739 --> 01:56:02,479
if if

3037
01:56:02,939 --> 01:56:05,679
if there's if I'm not act adding

3038
01:56:06,619 --> 01:56:07,119
more

3039
01:56:07,819 --> 01:56:09,760
nutrition and active biology

3040
01:56:10,380 --> 01:56:12,319
via a compost tea,

3041
01:56:13,034 --> 01:56:15,675
are are is the nutrition that you're referring

3042
01:56:15,675 --> 01:56:16,175
to

3043
01:56:16,475 --> 01:56:17,614
simply amendments

3044
01:56:17,914 --> 01:56:21,675
that you have added in advance before the

3045
01:56:21,675 --> 01:56:23,135
life cycle of the plant?

3046
01:56:23,515 --> 01:56:26,110
Well, new I was trying to go through

3047
01:56:26,110 --> 01:56:28,829
the the succession of treatments that we usually

3048
01:56:28,829 --> 01:56:29,329
do

3049
01:56:29,789 --> 01:56:30,270
in,

3050
01:56:30,750 --> 01:56:32,610
and and trying to deal with

3051
01:56:33,310 --> 01:56:35,869
these large tubules. In that one case that

3052
01:56:35,869 --> 01:56:38,190
that, you wouldn't use a root drench. Like,

3053
01:56:38,190 --> 01:56:39,710
no like, you would use it in other

3054
01:56:39,710 --> 01:56:40,210
cases.

3055
01:56:40,645 --> 01:56:42,564
So yeah. When I understand. When you first

3056
01:56:42,564 --> 01:56:43,845
go out and take a look at what's

3057
01:56:43,845 --> 01:56:45,685
in the soil and you go, oh my

3058
01:56:45,685 --> 01:56:46,405
gosh. They're

3059
01:56:47,045 --> 01:56:48,905
the only thing I find here are bacteria,

3060
01:56:48,965 --> 01:56:49,465
and

3061
01:56:49,925 --> 01:56:52,425
they are really not very good bacteria

3062
01:56:52,810 --> 01:56:54,890
because that's all that can grow with the

3063
01:56:54,890 --> 01:56:58,090
toxic chemicals and the inorganic salts and all

3064
01:56:58,090 --> 01:56:58,590
this

3065
01:56:59,210 --> 01:57:01,390
tillage. It's the only thing that's surviving.

3066
01:57:02,010 --> 01:57:04,649
And so our first applications are going to

3067
01:57:04,649 --> 01:57:05,149
be

3068
01:57:05,609 --> 01:57:06,109
compost.

3069
01:57:06,675 --> 01:57:08,755
If you don't have enough organic matter in

3070
01:57:08,755 --> 01:57:10,935
your soil to grow your microorganisms,

3071
01:57:11,314 --> 01:57:13,335
and that cutoff is 3%.

3072
01:57:13,954 --> 01:57:15,795
So one of the biggest things we'll have

3073
01:57:15,795 --> 01:57:18,274
to do when we've got those kinds of

3074
01:57:18,274 --> 01:57:21,140
problems is get out there with more organic

3075
01:57:21,140 --> 01:57:22,920
matter. Well guess what is

3076
01:57:23,539 --> 01:57:26,979
your, in your compost? It's organic matter and

3077
01:57:26,979 --> 01:57:29,239
organisms, so get it out there.

3078
01:57:29,699 --> 01:57:31,319
So we'll come back

3079
01:57:31,864 --> 01:57:32,925
two weeks later,

3080
01:57:33,545 --> 01:57:34,045
and

3081
01:57:34,425 --> 01:57:37,145
we may go in furrow at that point

3082
01:57:37,145 --> 01:57:39,625
where we're putting the compost tea down in

3083
01:57:39,625 --> 01:57:42,425
furrow, but we want to make certain that

3084
01:57:42,425 --> 01:57:44,765
we've got the balance right. So before,

3085
01:57:46,239 --> 01:57:48,179
so here we are, we've put the compost

3086
01:57:48,319 --> 01:57:49,779
down if we need to,

3087
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:53,279
and a week or two weeks later, we'll

3088
01:57:53,279 --> 01:57:55,840
come back and take another look at the

3089
01:57:55,840 --> 01:57:58,319
biology and make sure it's getting going in

3090
01:57:58,319 --> 01:57:59,219
the right direction.

3091
01:57:59,914 --> 01:58:03,215
And then that determines for us what's still

3092
01:58:03,354 --> 01:58:03,854
missing.

3093
01:58:04,314 --> 01:58:06,494
And so what do we have to,

3094
01:58:07,114 --> 01:58:08,795
what kind of compost are we going to

3095
01:58:08,795 --> 01:58:10,335
use? We're going to be extracting

3096
01:58:10,715 --> 01:58:11,614
these organisms

3097
01:58:12,329 --> 01:58:12,829
to

3098
01:58:13,289 --> 01:58:14,429
put into the soil

3099
01:58:15,130 --> 01:58:17,389
as a drench going along the row.

3100
01:58:18,569 --> 01:58:20,889
And we may have to repeat that once

3101
01:58:20,889 --> 01:58:23,689
or twice before we can get the balance

3102
01:58:23,689 --> 01:58:24,429
of the microorganisms

3103
01:58:24,889 --> 01:58:26,595
back up to what it needs to be.

3104
01:58:27,795 --> 01:58:30,135
And then we're going to really turn our

3105
01:58:30,515 --> 01:58:32,695
attention to what are the diseases

3106
01:58:34,114 --> 01:58:35,494
that the client has

3107
01:58:36,835 --> 01:58:37,335
shown

3108
01:58:37,715 --> 01:58:38,534
are problems.

3109
01:58:39,235 --> 01:58:41,255
And so now we're going to

3110
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:44,300
determine the compost

3111
01:58:44,840 --> 01:58:47,579
tea that we're likely to have to apply

3112
01:58:48,199 --> 01:58:50,380
because of, you know, is it a,

3113
01:58:51,079 --> 01:58:53,719
you know, there's too many disease causes, too

3114
01:58:53,719 --> 01:58:55,725
many diseases for me to mention. But

3115
01:58:56,445 --> 01:58:59,484
based on this disease, we're going to make

3116
01:58:59,484 --> 01:59:00,225
a compost

3117
01:59:00,604 --> 01:59:02,145
tea that will

3118
01:59:02,604 --> 01:59:03,104
very

3119
01:59:03,725 --> 01:59:04,225
strongly

3120
01:59:05,005 --> 01:59:05,505
suppress

3121
01:59:06,284 --> 01:59:09,104
those diseases that are strictly foliar.

3122
01:59:09,779 --> 01:59:11,319
If it's a root disease,

3123
01:59:11,939 --> 01:59:14,439
we would probably go back to

3124
01:59:15,300 --> 01:59:16,760
drenching the soil

3125
01:59:17,219 --> 01:59:19,779
or maybe if it's a really specific part

3126
01:59:19,779 --> 01:59:22,840
of the tree that is showing disease symptoms,

3127
01:59:22,899 --> 01:59:23,399
then

3128
01:59:23,875 --> 01:59:25,954
conifers are much more likely to behave in

3129
01:59:25,954 --> 01:59:26,614
that fashion.

3130
01:59:27,475 --> 01:59:28,614
We'll inject

3131
01:59:29,074 --> 01:59:30,055
the compost

3132
01:59:30,435 --> 01:59:30,935
extract

3133
01:59:31,635 --> 01:59:32,774
into the soil

3134
01:59:33,555 --> 01:59:34,375
around that

3135
01:59:35,395 --> 01:59:36,534
infected root

3136
01:59:37,020 --> 01:59:38,239
and kind of hope

3137
01:59:38,859 --> 01:59:40,000
that that takes care

3138
01:59:40,460 --> 01:59:42,800
of the disease in that root.

3139
01:59:43,979 --> 01:59:46,300
If it doesn't, it's going to kill that

3140
01:59:46,300 --> 01:59:46,800
plant.

3141
01:59:47,500 --> 01:59:49,920
When should we take it down now or

3142
01:59:50,734 --> 01:59:51,474
try to

3143
01:59:51,854 --> 01:59:52,835
baby this,

3144
01:59:54,014 --> 01:59:56,175
one very sick tree? Should we take it

3145
01:59:56,175 --> 01:59:58,255
down? You have to your client is the

3146
01:59:58,255 --> 02:00:00,594
person who's gonna make that call. I understand.

3147
02:00:01,375 --> 02:00:03,869
Thanks for, breaking that out a bit more.

3148
02:00:04,110 --> 02:00:06,449
It's it's interesting how any conversation,

3149
02:00:07,630 --> 02:00:09,310
about, you know, it's just for it's for

3150
02:00:09,310 --> 02:00:11,329
somebody who's taking their soil seriously

3151
02:00:11,869 --> 02:00:15,070
and thinking about varieties of compost tea. It

3152
02:00:15,070 --> 02:00:17,250
always comes back to microscope skills.

3153
02:00:18,030 --> 02:00:19,594
It really does. It's like, you know, for

3154
02:00:19,594 --> 02:00:21,194
for for a decade, we are making sure

3155
02:00:21,194 --> 02:00:23,755
we're trying to encourage, you know, cannabis growers

3156
02:00:23,755 --> 02:00:25,675
to get soil tests. Right? Even though they

3157
02:00:25,675 --> 02:00:27,534
were afraid to send their soil in and

3158
02:00:27,594 --> 02:00:29,675
because people were generally, you know, hiding and

3159
02:00:29,675 --> 02:00:31,194
they didn't wanna send in soil tests. You

3160
02:00:31,194 --> 02:00:33,560
know, eventually, it got safe enough to send

3161
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:35,100
in soil tests and such.

3162
02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:37,319
And so, you know, people are pretty well

3163
02:00:37,319 --> 02:00:39,239
established that beyond the importance of a soil

3164
02:00:39,239 --> 02:00:41,960
test, but right on those heels is is

3165
02:00:41,960 --> 02:00:44,520
basic microscope skills so that you can understand

3166
02:00:44,520 --> 02:00:46,039
what's going on in your soil and your

3167
02:00:46,039 --> 02:00:46,539
compost.

3168
02:00:47,114 --> 02:00:48,555
Mhmm. Yeah. And it's,

3169
02:00:49,034 --> 02:00:50,814
it's easier to do the microscope

3170
02:00:51,515 --> 02:00:53,755
work yourself rather than sending it off to

3171
02:00:53,755 --> 02:00:56,814
a a laboratory where you're not quite sure

3172
02:00:57,515 --> 02:00:58,814
what kind of methodology

3173
02:00:59,194 --> 02:01:01,854
they're using to extract the

3174
02:01:02,179 --> 02:01:03,319
soluble N,

3175
02:01:03,779 --> 02:01:05,719
the total N, the exchangeable,

3176
02:01:07,460 --> 02:01:09,800
all of those different things. And you know,

3177
02:01:09,859 --> 02:01:11,960
people hand me. So chemistry

3178
02:01:12,340 --> 02:01:14,979
reports and you know, it's got like a

3179
02:01:14,979 --> 02:01:17,079
column of numbers behind

3180
02:01:17,485 --> 02:01:19,905
you know, titles like phosphate,

3181
02:01:20,765 --> 02:01:22,704
sulfate, things like that. And it's like,

3182
02:01:23,085 --> 02:01:24,065
this is meaningless.

3183
02:01:25,324 --> 02:01:27,244
You've gotta know what,

3184
02:01:27,645 --> 02:01:31,005
extraction agencies they've been using to really context

3185
02:01:31,005 --> 02:01:33,609
is for the numbers. Yeah. Yep. And,

3186
02:01:34,389 --> 02:01:34,889
so

3187
02:01:35,510 --> 02:01:38,889
yeah. And it's it's really easy to find

3188
02:01:38,949 --> 02:01:41,210
that that information that's important.

3189
02:01:41,750 --> 02:01:43,429
And what do you have to do to

3190
02:01:43,429 --> 02:01:45,349
make get this plant back into a really

3191
02:01:45,349 --> 02:01:46,250
healthy condition?

3192
02:01:47,675 --> 02:01:49,774
A lot of times I find that chemical

3193
02:01:50,314 --> 02:01:53,055
analysis is isn't much help. Mhmm.

3194
02:01:54,715 --> 02:01:58,810
Yeah. And we're working on trying to really

3195
02:01:58,810 --> 02:02:01,369
figure that out for people so that there'll

3196
02:02:01,369 --> 02:02:04,729
be a publication coming along that really helps

3197
02:02:04,729 --> 02:02:05,229
them

3198
02:02:05,530 --> 02:02:06,030
integrate

3199
02:02:06,650 --> 02:02:07,150
what's

3200
02:02:07,770 --> 02:02:08,750
going on with

3201
02:02:09,689 --> 02:02:10,430
the nutrients

3202
02:02:11,494 --> 02:02:14,475
from what the biology is doing, as well

3203
02:02:14,935 --> 02:02:16,555
as having some of the,

3204
02:02:17,335 --> 02:02:17,835
soluble

3205
02:02:18,215 --> 02:02:18,715
and,

3206
02:02:20,614 --> 02:02:22,555
total nutrient values,

3207
02:02:23,734 --> 02:02:26,020
in the system, Help people really figure out

3208
02:02:26,020 --> 02:02:28,100
what they're doing. Excellent. We'll we'll we'll look

3209
02:02:28,100 --> 02:02:30,420
forward to that report. This next question, I

3210
02:02:30,420 --> 02:02:32,340
think, is a lot simpler than the last

3211
02:02:32,340 --> 02:02:32,840
couple.

3212
02:02:33,539 --> 02:02:35,400
You know, it's it's it's really common,

3213
02:02:35,780 --> 02:02:38,979
towards the end of a bloom cycle in

3214
02:02:38,979 --> 02:02:39,479
cannabis

3215
02:02:39,975 --> 02:02:43,194
for growers to stop water before,

3216
02:02:44,215 --> 02:02:45,194
harvest day.

3217
02:02:45,654 --> 02:02:46,154
And,

3218
02:02:47,175 --> 02:02:49,175
my mentor did that and,

3219
02:02:49,814 --> 02:02:52,170
you know, he said, well, it's it's like

3220
02:02:52,170 --> 02:02:54,010
a tomato plant. We're letting it know it's

3221
02:02:54,010 --> 02:02:55,689
at the end of its season, and we

3222
02:02:55,689 --> 02:02:58,090
wanna decrease the total moisture volume in the

3223
02:02:58,090 --> 02:03:00,189
plant so it's a little easier to dry.

3224
02:03:00,329 --> 02:03:02,329
And I'm like, but in in my thoughts,

3225
02:03:02,329 --> 02:03:04,250
it's always been I would want to be

3226
02:03:04,250 --> 02:03:04,750
watering

3227
02:03:05,324 --> 02:03:06,545
my soil biology,

3228
02:03:06,925 --> 02:03:08,545
you know, all the way through harvest

3229
02:03:08,925 --> 02:03:09,425
because

3230
02:03:09,725 --> 02:03:11,984
without water, I'm gonna start losing

3231
02:03:12,364 --> 02:03:15,645
my stable balanced microbe life as they start

3232
02:03:15,645 --> 02:03:18,204
going to sleep. And and then that really,

3233
02:03:18,204 --> 02:03:20,045
really tells the plant that it's the end

3234
02:03:20,045 --> 02:03:22,159
of the season and that, you know, perhaps

3235
02:03:22,159 --> 02:03:24,000
it's time for molds to take over to

3236
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:26,479
recycle the plant. So I really wanna key

3237
02:03:26,560 --> 02:03:29,060
I think I wanna keep my microbiology,

3238
02:03:30,239 --> 02:03:32,020
like, strong and moistured,

3239
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:35,125
right up to harvest day. But, you know,

3240
02:03:35,125 --> 02:03:37,364
I'm I certainly am I'm willing to be

3241
02:03:37,364 --> 02:03:39,784
inaccurate. So so what are your thoughts about

3242
02:03:40,005 --> 02:03:43,444
this common practice to stopping watering plants in

3243
02:03:43,444 --> 02:03:45,385
containers, like, a week before harvest?

3244
02:03:46,244 --> 02:03:48,340
I don't think it's really gonna do the

3245
02:03:48,340 --> 02:03:48,840
microorganisms

3246
02:03:49,380 --> 02:03:51,079
in your soil any harm.

3247
02:03:51,859 --> 02:03:53,239
You're getting them ready for,

3248
02:03:53,619 --> 02:03:56,039
you know, the harvest period being gone.

3249
02:03:57,300 --> 02:03:57,800
So

3250
02:03:58,579 --> 02:04:01,744
these organisms are have been of course

3251
02:04:02,204 --> 02:04:05,324
building aggregate structure in the soil around the

3252
02:04:05,324 --> 02:04:05,824
roots

3253
02:04:06,204 --> 02:04:07,744
to hold on to water.

3254
02:04:08,364 --> 02:04:11,164
And so if anything what's happening is you're

3255
02:04:11,164 --> 02:04:13,664
getting the plant to go deeper,

3256
02:04:14,280 --> 02:04:16,539
put those roots down deeper into the soil

3257
02:04:16,600 --> 02:04:19,340
to grab the water that it needs.

3258
02:04:20,359 --> 02:04:22,220
So the plant has mechanisms

3259
02:04:22,760 --> 02:04:25,239
for upping the amount of water that it'll

3260
02:04:25,239 --> 02:04:27,340
take out of the soil

3261
02:04:27,720 --> 02:04:29,100
around its root system.

3262
02:04:29,515 --> 02:04:31,835
And so I'm not sure how much good

3263
02:04:31,835 --> 02:04:32,414
it really

3264
02:04:33,354 --> 02:04:35,135
for a week is probably

3265
02:04:35,435 --> 02:04:37,914
not enough to affect the growth of that

3266
02:04:37,914 --> 02:04:39,215
plant in any way.

3267
02:04:42,150 --> 02:04:45,030
So in really dry arid areas maybe so,

3268
02:04:45,030 --> 02:04:47,430
and so it would be interesting to look

3269
02:04:47,430 --> 02:04:48,010
at that.

3270
02:04:48,390 --> 02:04:50,390
What goes on with the biology around the

3271
02:04:50,390 --> 02:04:51,210
root system

3272
02:04:51,750 --> 02:04:53,770
as you're letting this drying

3273
02:04:54,470 --> 02:04:55,689
process happen.

3274
02:04:56,064 --> 02:04:58,465
You're not going to lose any species, they're

3275
02:04:58,465 --> 02:04:59,604
just going to go dormant.

3276
02:05:00,465 --> 02:05:01,925
And especially with water,

3277
02:05:02,385 --> 02:05:04,944
you know, they've got a fair amount of

3278
02:05:04,944 --> 02:05:05,444
time

3279
02:05:05,904 --> 02:05:07,904
to respond to the fact that the water

3280
02:05:07,904 --> 02:05:10,840
really is drying out and it really is

3281
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:13,659
time to go get into dormant form.

3282
02:05:14,039 --> 02:05:15,900
So when you come through and you harvest,

3283
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:18,619
you have less damage from harvest

3284
02:05:19,480 --> 02:05:19,980
because

3285
02:05:20,360 --> 02:05:22,780
the organisms are already going sound asleep.

3286
02:05:24,965 --> 02:05:25,684
Yeah. I don't

3287
02:05:26,724 --> 02:05:29,284
it doesn't doesn't really ring my bells at

3288
02:05:29,284 --> 02:05:32,005
all to to get worried about that. So

3289
02:05:32,005 --> 02:05:34,404
let's talk about something specifically for the indoor

3290
02:05:34,404 --> 02:05:36,739
cultivators for a moment, Elaine. You know, many

3291
02:05:36,739 --> 02:05:37,640
indoor cultivators,

3292
02:05:38,579 --> 02:05:42,100
try to mimic outdoor regenerative techniques in their

3293
02:05:42,100 --> 02:05:44,819
gardens because perhaps they don't have access to

3294
02:05:44,819 --> 02:05:47,300
outdoor space or maybe they live somewhere where

3295
02:05:47,300 --> 02:05:49,479
the weather is just not gonna play ball.

3296
02:05:49,784 --> 02:05:52,585
And so they wanna grow indoors, but they

3297
02:05:52,585 --> 02:05:54,984
they don't wanna go the whole, you know,

3298
02:05:54,984 --> 02:05:57,064
you know, you know, the two part salts

3299
02:05:57,064 --> 02:05:58,765
game because they want to be,

3300
02:06:00,185 --> 02:06:01,404
you know, using

3301
02:06:01,930 --> 02:06:04,970
a healthier cannabis themselves. And so, you know,

3302
02:06:04,970 --> 02:06:07,050
perhaps they're still in pots, but, you know,

3303
02:06:07,050 --> 02:06:09,369
it's becoming very common to use four by

3304
02:06:09,369 --> 02:06:11,949
four or four by eight indoor beds.

3305
02:06:12,810 --> 02:06:13,310
But

3306
02:06:13,770 --> 02:06:15,930
being indoors, there's a clear limit to how

3307
02:06:15,930 --> 02:06:18,345
much soil food web biomimicry

3308
02:06:18,725 --> 02:06:20,024
can take place because

3309
02:06:20,485 --> 02:06:23,305
there's so much of nature that you're not

3310
02:06:23,925 --> 02:06:26,185
participating in and that you just can't

3311
02:06:26,564 --> 02:06:27,064
mimic

3312
02:06:27,604 --> 02:06:29,064
indoors in a tent.

3313
02:06:30,380 --> 02:06:33,439
For indoor folks, how should we think about,

3314
02:06:33,820 --> 02:06:36,140
you know, that natural limit to how much

3315
02:06:36,140 --> 02:06:39,280
bio mimicry we can do and best adapt

3316
02:06:39,420 --> 02:06:41,835
our indoor gardens in attempt to, you know,

3317
02:06:41,835 --> 02:06:44,715
make them as true as possible to the

3318
02:06:44,715 --> 02:06:45,935
soil food web?

3319
02:06:47,755 --> 02:06:49,755
Yeah. The biggest problem I think is going

3320
02:06:49,755 --> 02:06:51,755
to be that the roots should be growing

3321
02:06:51,755 --> 02:06:52,255
down,

3322
02:06:53,435 --> 02:06:55,215
and not out to the sides.

3323
02:06:56,289 --> 02:06:56,789
And

3324
02:06:57,170 --> 02:07:00,150
I suppose if you had a situation where

3325
02:07:00,449 --> 02:07:01,510
that's the only,

3326
02:07:03,729 --> 02:07:05,270
you don't have

3327
02:07:05,729 --> 02:07:07,829
some place where you can hang

3328
02:07:09,235 --> 02:07:11,895
baskets with the plants growing in it up

3329
02:07:12,034 --> 02:07:13,815
at six or eight feet high

3330
02:07:14,515 --> 02:07:16,675
so the root systems can go down into

3331
02:07:16,675 --> 02:07:18,835
a trench that you would dig in the

3332
02:07:18,835 --> 02:07:21,015
floor. That's a novel thing to picture.

3333
02:07:23,439 --> 02:07:27,039
Take the boards out between your Ground Floor

3334
02:07:27,039 --> 02:07:27,539
and

3335
02:07:29,199 --> 02:07:30,979
the basement. If you could

3336
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:32,420
have

3337
02:07:33,439 --> 02:07:35,795
the above ground part up in a you

3338
02:07:35,795 --> 02:07:39,494
know, a bubble window and then the pot

3339
02:07:39,795 --> 02:07:41,715
and with the roots growing down into your

3340
02:07:41,715 --> 02:07:42,215
basement,

3341
02:07:44,195 --> 02:07:45,414
you might be able

3342
02:07:45,875 --> 02:07:48,755
to be more typical of what we want

3343
02:07:48,755 --> 02:07:51,015
to have occurring out in the field.

3344
02:07:51,810 --> 02:07:53,810
But what if your field isn't actually doing

3345
02:07:53,810 --> 02:07:55,670
that? Your field is

3346
02:07:56,930 --> 02:07:57,430
compacted

3347
02:07:57,810 --> 02:07:58,869
at some depth,

3348
02:07:59,649 --> 02:08:01,890
and the roots will only grow down to

3349
02:08:01,890 --> 02:08:02,710
that depth.

3350
02:08:03,170 --> 02:08:05,670
They will tend to go sideways then

3351
02:08:06,255 --> 02:08:08,194
and be fighting with the next

3352
02:08:08,734 --> 02:08:10,034
plants over

3353
02:08:10,494 --> 02:08:11,954
because they're all

3354
02:08:12,494 --> 02:08:15,454
not getting the nutrients or the water that

3355
02:08:15,454 --> 02:08:16,114
they need.

3356
02:08:16,895 --> 02:08:17,395
So,

3357
02:08:18,335 --> 02:08:19,154
which is,

3358
02:08:19,650 --> 02:08:21,829
what is it that you're trying to mimic?

3359
02:08:22,530 --> 02:08:25,430
Your not so healthy plants that are outside

3360
02:08:25,650 --> 02:08:27,350
hitting a compaction layer?

3361
02:08:28,210 --> 02:08:28,710
Or

3362
02:08:29,250 --> 02:08:32,050
you're going to be building structure in that

3363
02:08:32,050 --> 02:08:34,070
compaction layer so over the years

3364
02:08:34,525 --> 02:08:36,465
you're going to be able to,

3365
02:08:37,244 --> 02:08:39,985
get the root systems of your plants down

3366
02:08:40,045 --> 02:08:40,545
the,

3367
02:08:41,805 --> 02:08:45,585
twelve, fifteen feet that we're hoping for.

3368
02:08:46,445 --> 02:08:48,605
And then you would have to bio mimic

3369
02:08:48,605 --> 02:08:51,159
it inside your house where if you brought

3370
02:08:51,159 --> 02:08:51,560
those,

3371
02:08:52,280 --> 02:08:53,260
pots in.

3372
02:08:55,399 --> 02:08:58,060
So it sounds like since we you know,

3373
02:08:58,119 --> 02:09:00,039
even though I really love the idea of

3374
02:09:00,039 --> 02:09:02,680
sketching out this this hanging pots and and

3375
02:09:02,680 --> 02:09:04,280
having it go through a tube to a

3376
02:09:04,280 --> 02:09:07,395
trough, It's it, it sounds like, really,

3377
02:09:08,175 --> 02:09:09,475
folks who want to

3378
02:09:10,335 --> 02:09:13,235
bio mimic soil food web, their best

3379
02:09:13,614 --> 02:09:14,755
things to focus

3380
02:09:15,295 --> 02:09:17,795
will be on just ensuring

3381
02:09:18,460 --> 02:09:20,880
that they have got the most complex

3382
02:09:21,420 --> 02:09:22,559
soil and rhizosphere

3383
02:09:23,099 --> 02:09:23,920
as possible,

3384
02:09:25,179 --> 02:09:25,679
by,

3385
02:09:26,779 --> 02:09:27,760
you know, supporting

3386
02:09:28,219 --> 02:09:30,159
the residents that are already there

3387
02:09:30,585 --> 02:09:32,925
and then continuing to inoculate

3388
02:09:33,305 --> 02:09:33,805
with

3389
02:09:34,185 --> 02:09:34,845
with IMOs

3390
02:09:35,225 --> 02:09:38,525
and and such things and just focus on

3391
02:09:39,145 --> 02:09:42,104
the biology of the soil and and call

3392
02:09:42,104 --> 02:09:43,725
that, you know, good enough.

3393
02:09:44,185 --> 02:09:45,725
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.

3394
02:09:47,289 --> 02:09:48,350
You know, using

3395
02:09:49,530 --> 02:09:52,970
the the extracts, the compost, the teas as

3396
02:09:52,970 --> 02:09:53,470
needed

3397
02:09:53,850 --> 02:09:54,750
to try to

3398
02:09:55,130 --> 02:09:57,150
keep the food web balanced,

3399
02:09:58,090 --> 02:10:00,409
where you because one of the things you'll

3400
02:10:00,409 --> 02:10:00,909
discover

3401
02:10:01,685 --> 02:10:02,985
is what is

3402
02:10:03,685 --> 02:10:06,324
the balance of bacteria and fungi for this

3403
02:10:06,324 --> 02:10:07,465
particular cultivar

3404
02:10:08,005 --> 02:10:08,744
of cannabis?

3405
02:10:10,565 --> 02:10:12,664
Which one did you buy and

3406
02:10:13,125 --> 02:10:15,125
how much difference is there going to be

3407
02:10:15,125 --> 02:10:16,425
between this first

3408
02:10:16,939 --> 02:10:20,699
species versus the second subspecies, whatever. Mhmm. That's

3409
02:10:20,699 --> 02:10:22,939
gonna be fun to find out about as

3410
02:10:22,939 --> 02:10:23,439
well.

3411
02:10:24,539 --> 02:10:25,020
So,

3412
02:10:25,340 --> 02:10:27,020
so I've got I've just got two questions

3413
02:10:27,020 --> 02:10:29,260
left for you. And and and and before

3414
02:10:29,260 --> 02:10:30,860
we go to the final one, which is,

3415
02:10:30,860 --> 02:10:33,104
you know, kind of a a delightful philosophical,

3416
02:10:33,885 --> 02:10:35,564
you know, position for us to end the

3417
02:10:35,564 --> 02:10:36,225
show with,

3418
02:10:36,765 --> 02:10:38,524
I'd really love you to just give us

3419
02:10:38,524 --> 02:10:39,984
your your elevator,

3420
02:10:40,604 --> 02:10:43,725
pitch about, the soil food web school that

3421
02:10:43,725 --> 02:10:44,945
you started because

3422
02:10:45,270 --> 02:10:47,130
so many of us have been accessing,

3423
02:10:48,149 --> 02:10:51,449
you know, your education and message and insights,

3424
02:10:52,550 --> 02:10:54,329
through, you know, books and papers

3425
02:10:54,630 --> 02:10:55,689
and YouTube,

3426
02:10:56,229 --> 02:10:56,729
presentations

3427
02:10:57,109 --> 02:10:59,194
for these years. But but now you you

3428
02:10:59,194 --> 02:11:00,795
know, you've kind of you've kind of taken

3429
02:11:00,795 --> 02:11:02,715
all of that and gone pro and made

3430
02:11:02,715 --> 02:11:03,215
it,

3431
02:11:05,435 --> 02:11:06,414
a a

3432
02:11:06,875 --> 02:11:10,095
a system so that somebody can work through,

3433
02:11:10,840 --> 02:11:13,500
the entire range of soil food web ideas

3434
02:11:13,640 --> 02:11:15,399
and then, you know, get a certificate in

3435
02:11:15,399 --> 02:11:17,079
the end as well. So, well, would you

3436
02:11:17,079 --> 02:11:18,439
just tell us a little bit about that

3437
02:11:18,439 --> 02:11:19,659
before we wrap up?

3438
02:11:20,760 --> 02:11:23,100
We what we saw was that,

3439
02:11:23,675 --> 02:11:25,375
people learning the

3440
02:11:25,755 --> 02:11:26,255
techniques

3441
02:11:26,875 --> 02:11:30,095
and then going back home and applying them,

3442
02:11:30,954 --> 02:11:33,295
it's hard for them to do the research

3443
02:11:33,355 --> 02:11:34,574
kinds of things.

3444
02:11:35,515 --> 02:11:37,135
We didn't go through that

3445
02:11:37,590 --> 02:11:39,829
of how to figure things out if it's

3446
02:11:39,829 --> 02:11:41,289
not exactly the way

3447
02:11:41,750 --> 02:11:44,489
we were talking about it in the classes.

3448
02:11:45,270 --> 02:11:47,130
So we realized that was,

3449
02:11:47,670 --> 02:11:48,970
we needed to start

3450
02:11:49,909 --> 02:11:51,530
getting our students understanding

3451
02:11:51,989 --> 02:11:52,489
that

3452
02:11:52,975 --> 02:11:54,835
every time we say it depends,

3453
02:11:55,614 --> 02:11:57,854
that means they're going to have to do

3454
02:11:57,854 --> 02:11:59,395
a little bit of researching.

3455
02:12:00,335 --> 02:12:02,594
And I like the little containers,

3456
02:12:04,414 --> 02:12:07,026
where we can put in, you know,

3457
02:12:07,699 --> 02:12:10,840
let's see, six cups of our woody mix,

3458
02:12:11,699 --> 02:12:13,319
three cups of our

3459
02:12:13,939 --> 02:12:15,479
green plant material,

3460
02:12:16,180 --> 02:12:18,520
and then one cup of our

3461
02:12:20,594 --> 02:12:23,474
high nitrogen material. And you mix that all

3462
02:12:23,474 --> 02:12:24,295
up and

3463
02:12:24,994 --> 02:12:27,875
make certain that you're watering it so you

3464
02:12:27,875 --> 02:12:28,375
know

3465
02:12:29,554 --> 02:12:30,534
it's got a nice

3466
02:12:31,795 --> 02:12:34,489
amount of moisture in it. Treat it just

3467
02:12:34,550 --> 02:12:37,510
like you would your larger compost piles inside

3468
02:12:37,510 --> 02:12:38,569
the bird cages.

3469
02:12:39,590 --> 02:12:40,090
And

3470
02:12:40,949 --> 02:12:41,929
watch the temperature.

3471
02:12:43,029 --> 02:12:45,189
Is that really high nitrogen that you put

3472
02:12:45,189 --> 02:12:48,104
in? Is there a problem where you're not

3473
02:12:48,185 --> 02:12:50,925
seeing any bacterial growth and you can

3474
02:12:51,305 --> 02:12:51,805
design

3475
02:12:52,904 --> 02:12:53,404
your

3476
02:12:56,585 --> 02:12:57,564
compost system

3477
02:12:58,345 --> 02:12:58,845
better?

3478
02:12:59,385 --> 02:12:59,885
But

3479
02:13:00,770 --> 02:13:03,650
you're doing some testing where you're trying different

3480
02:13:03,650 --> 02:13:04,150
materials

3481
02:13:04,770 --> 02:13:07,170
as high nitrogen. Which is the best high

3482
02:13:07,170 --> 02:13:08,710
nitrogen that I've got?

3483
02:13:09,090 --> 02:13:10,070
Which is

3484
02:13:10,610 --> 02:13:12,310
the best woody substrate?

3485
02:13:13,405 --> 02:13:15,965
Does it matter if I let that woody

3486
02:13:15,965 --> 02:13:16,465
substrate

3487
02:13:17,244 --> 02:13:17,905
get completely

3488
02:13:18,284 --> 02:13:20,465
involved in a bunch of different

3489
02:13:21,485 --> 02:13:24,445
fungi and I use that as composed as

3490
02:13:24,445 --> 02:13:27,630
compared to something that was just ground up

3491
02:13:29,229 --> 02:13:31,310
two or three months ago or something like

3492
02:13:31,310 --> 02:13:31,810
that.

3493
02:13:32,350 --> 02:13:33,170
And so

3494
02:13:33,550 --> 02:13:35,649
you test for yourself and we're teaching

3495
02:13:36,270 --> 02:13:37,649
our students that

3496
02:13:38,510 --> 02:13:40,449
way to deal with

3497
02:13:41,494 --> 02:13:43,274
questions that you might have

3498
02:13:43,895 --> 02:13:46,135
and figure it out for yourself. Now we'd

3499
02:13:46,135 --> 02:13:47,274
like to have you all

3500
02:13:48,295 --> 02:13:51,574
send back in what you discover so we

3501
02:13:51,574 --> 02:13:53,194
can just keep enlarging

3502
02:13:54,694 --> 02:13:55,354
the table

3503
02:13:56,070 --> 02:13:58,470
about where in the world are you and

3504
02:13:58,470 --> 02:13:59,770
what is the best

3505
02:14:00,070 --> 02:14:02,970
source of high nitrogen, the best source of

3506
02:14:03,350 --> 02:14:03,850
sources

3507
02:14:05,030 --> 02:14:06,090
of woody materials,

3508
02:14:06,470 --> 02:14:07,845
and so on and so forth.

3509
02:14:09,925 --> 02:14:10,664
You know,

3510
02:14:10,965 --> 02:14:13,204
lots of examples that I could give, but

3511
02:14:13,204 --> 02:14:14,025
I'll keep going.

3512
02:14:15,284 --> 02:14:16,725
It it sounds like,

3513
02:14:17,765 --> 02:14:19,225
the the the main,

3514
02:14:19,845 --> 02:14:21,604
gist or intent, I guess, is probably a

3515
02:14:21,604 --> 02:14:23,520
better word for the Soil Food Web School

3516
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:24,000
is

3517
02:14:24,479 --> 02:14:27,439
so so so we've we've studied these ideas

3518
02:14:27,439 --> 02:14:28,899
of the Soil Food Web,

3519
02:14:29,599 --> 02:14:32,560
you know, wrote to memorize them. And what

3520
02:14:32,560 --> 02:14:34,560
the school does is it it gives you

3521
02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:36,500
the skills to do the research

3522
02:14:37,065 --> 02:14:39,065
so that you can do the processes that

3523
02:14:39,065 --> 02:14:41,145
you need in order to be able to

3524
02:14:41,145 --> 02:14:42,125
work with soil,

3525
02:14:42,664 --> 02:14:44,585
not just like you read it in a

3526
02:14:44,585 --> 02:14:47,305
textbook, but that you actually have ownership over

3527
02:14:47,305 --> 02:14:49,750
the techniques and the ideas. Yep. Right on.

3528
02:14:49,750 --> 02:14:52,710
Because we we know that every bit of

3529
02:14:52,710 --> 02:14:53,449
a biome

3530
02:14:54,229 --> 02:14:56,329
is not gonna be behaving the same way,

3531
02:14:56,390 --> 02:14:59,130
especially if you understand succession, which I just

3532
02:14:59,270 --> 02:15:01,210
barely started going through, which,

3533
02:15:01,711 --> 02:15:04,479
you know, when you look at a watershed

3534
02:15:04,479 --> 02:15:07,247
and you look at the fact that up

3535
02:15:07,247 --> 02:15:10,015
there at the top of the mountain is

3536
02:15:10,015 --> 02:15:12,783
mostly conifer forest and then you've got deciduous

3537
02:15:12,783 --> 02:15:15,898
forest and then you've got, the shrubs and

3538
02:15:15,898 --> 02:15:18,989
bushes and this is succession. You're you're looking

3539
02:15:18,989 --> 02:15:19,649
at succession.

3540
02:15:20,189 --> 02:15:22,590
So where is your land or where is

3541
02:15:22,590 --> 02:15:23,729
your client's land?

3542
02:15:25,550 --> 02:15:27,469
Is it down here in,

3543
02:15:28,029 --> 02:15:29,729
the riparian zone?

3544
02:15:30,175 --> 02:15:30,755
Is it,

3545
02:15:32,654 --> 02:15:34,034
weedy area that

3546
02:15:34,414 --> 02:15:36,594
gets disturbed all the time by

3547
02:15:36,895 --> 02:15:38,835
wild and crazy things, you know,

3548
02:15:39,935 --> 02:15:42,494
going up the slope a little bit into

3549
02:15:42,494 --> 02:15:42,994
shrubbery

3550
02:15:43,680 --> 02:15:46,819
and really high, good highly productive grasslands.

3551
02:15:48,399 --> 02:15:49,140
You have

3552
02:15:49,920 --> 02:15:52,239
to have that microscope to be answering most

3553
02:15:52,239 --> 02:15:54,579
of these questions about what's missing,

3554
02:15:55,279 --> 02:15:55,779
so

3555
02:15:56,159 --> 02:15:57,460
you can pretty easily

3556
02:15:57,954 --> 02:16:01,074
start to build a good library about here's

3557
02:16:01,074 --> 02:16:02,774
what you do when,

3558
02:16:03,314 --> 02:16:05,234
fill in the blank, and if we can

3559
02:16:05,234 --> 02:16:07,255
have that for the school.

3560
02:16:08,194 --> 02:16:10,594
So you see what we're doing is what

3561
02:16:10,594 --> 02:16:11,255
are the,

3562
02:16:11,779 --> 02:16:14,359
what are the the the things that will

3563
02:16:14,500 --> 02:16:15,960
make it easier and easier

3564
02:16:16,819 --> 02:16:17,319
for

3565
02:16:20,260 --> 02:16:22,899
for students to be successful out in the

3566
02:16:22,899 --> 02:16:24,659
real world. Yeah. It sounds like it's a

3567
02:16:24,659 --> 02:16:26,340
setup for what to do when the answer

3568
02:16:26,340 --> 02:16:28,095
is it depends. Yeah.

3569
02:16:29,274 --> 02:16:31,215
So let let's follow with this this one.

3570
02:16:31,274 --> 02:16:33,915
So so doctor Elaine Ingham, you've been an

3571
02:16:33,915 --> 02:16:34,415
educator

3572
02:16:34,795 --> 02:16:37,354
and an activist actually for soil health for

3573
02:16:37,354 --> 02:16:40,555
decades, and it's certainly true that regenerative growing

3574
02:16:40,555 --> 02:16:42,739
techniques have, you know, increased in popularity,

3575
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:43,620
and

3576
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:46,479
the generations behind us are are even more

3577
02:16:46,479 --> 02:16:47,540
interested than us.

3578
02:16:47,920 --> 02:16:50,720
But also, you know, the fertilizer lobbyists also

3579
02:16:50,720 --> 02:16:52,340
still have a strong hold.

3580
02:16:52,720 --> 02:16:53,220
And

3581
02:16:53,735 --> 02:16:57,174
what advice or insight would you share with

3582
02:16:57,174 --> 02:16:59,735
those who will carry the torch forward in

3583
02:16:59,735 --> 02:17:00,395
this fight

3584
02:17:00,774 --> 02:17:03,354
that that sometimes almost seems overwhelming?

3585
02:17:05,174 --> 02:17:05,674
Well,

3586
02:17:05,989 --> 02:17:06,890
it seemed overwhelming

3587
02:17:07,670 --> 02:17:09,370
to convince the world

3588
02:17:09,909 --> 02:17:11,851
that soil is alive

3589
02:17:12,790 --> 02:17:14,010
45 ago,

3590
02:17:14,469 --> 02:17:16,969
and yet we've done that. It's amazing.

3591
02:17:17,829 --> 02:17:18,329
Once

3592
02:17:18,784 --> 02:17:19,764
we got over

3593
02:17:20,385 --> 02:17:21,444
kind of the threshold

3594
02:17:22,145 --> 02:17:23,364
of people accepting

3595
02:17:23,825 --> 02:17:24,325
that,

3596
02:17:24,704 --> 02:17:27,584
it didn't matter what the chemical companies were

3597
02:17:27,584 --> 02:17:29,204
talking about. It didn't matter

3598
02:17:29,825 --> 02:17:31,045
that our politicians

3599
02:17:31,584 --> 02:17:34,084
are in the pocket of those people.

3600
02:17:35,898 --> 02:17:37,520
When the general public decides,

3601
02:17:38,459 --> 02:17:40,319
it goes that way. And so,

3602
02:17:40,860 --> 02:17:42,000
you know, we've gotta

3603
02:17:42,939 --> 02:17:45,040
make this as understandable

3604
02:17:45,659 --> 02:17:47,439
for the average person

3605
02:17:47,979 --> 02:17:48,479
that

3606
02:17:49,395 --> 02:17:51,254
they get it and they

3607
02:17:51,875 --> 02:17:52,375
demand,

3608
02:17:53,635 --> 02:17:56,534
that their food is grown this way. So,

3609
02:17:57,155 --> 02:17:57,635
you know,

3610
02:17:58,274 --> 02:18:00,215
we're gonna get all of our nutrients

3611
02:18:01,235 --> 02:18:01,735
from

3612
02:18:02,790 --> 02:18:03,290
plants

3613
02:18:03,909 --> 02:18:06,549
that are cycling nutrients and building nutrients and

3614
02:18:06,549 --> 02:18:07,450
building protection,

3615
02:18:09,189 --> 02:18:10,969
and that transfers to us.

3616
02:18:11,989 --> 02:18:12,489
The

3617
02:18:14,469 --> 02:18:14,969
microorganisms

3618
02:18:15,510 --> 02:18:18,184
on the outside of all of the food

3619
02:18:18,184 --> 02:18:19,084
that we eat

3620
02:18:20,023 --> 02:18:22,604
should be what mother nature put there

3621
02:18:22,984 --> 02:18:24,283
and not what we

3622
02:18:24,584 --> 02:18:27,084
put there by spraying pesticides

3623
02:18:27,783 --> 02:18:28,684
or spraying,

3624
02:18:29,305 --> 02:18:31,385
you know, for whatever it is we're going

3625
02:18:31,385 --> 02:18:33,004
to go out there and try to kill.

3626
02:18:34,079 --> 02:18:36,560
You don't ever kill if you don't have

3627
02:18:36,560 --> 02:18:39,440
to. I guess there's a few exceptions like

3628
02:18:39,440 --> 02:18:41,760
human pathogens. Yes, we do always have to

3629
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:42,500
kill them,

3630
02:18:42,879 --> 02:18:45,860
but it's going to be using a system

3631
02:18:45,920 --> 02:18:48,819
that is not toxic chemicals that spread

3632
02:18:49,415 --> 02:18:49,915
everywhere.

3633
02:18:50,534 --> 02:18:51,034
That

3634
02:18:51,734 --> 02:18:52,234
leach

3635
02:18:52,773 --> 02:18:54,234
from all of our ecosystem,

3636
02:18:54,934 --> 02:18:58,075
from all of our organic, our agricultural systems

3637
02:18:58,295 --> 02:18:58,795
into

3638
02:18:59,174 --> 02:19:02,635
the water and destroys water quality of everything

3639
02:19:03,254 --> 02:19:03,754
downstream.

3640
02:19:04,854 --> 02:19:06,530
So we've got to get

3641
02:19:07,149 --> 02:19:07,810
the reasons

3642
02:19:08,190 --> 02:19:10,129
for dealing with landfills

3643
02:19:10,431 --> 02:19:12,209
that are just oozing

3644
02:19:13,149 --> 02:19:13,649
horrible

3645
02:19:14,030 --> 02:19:14,530
combinations

3646
02:19:15,310 --> 02:19:16,610
of toxic chemicals

3647
02:19:17,550 --> 02:19:18,050
into

3648
02:19:18,545 --> 02:19:20,805
the rivers and lakes and streams and

3649
02:19:21,825 --> 02:19:24,625
how's the human, how how are humans supposed

3650
02:19:24,625 --> 02:19:25,204
to survive

3651
02:19:26,625 --> 02:19:26,944
if,

3652
02:19:28,465 --> 02:19:30,145
those are the kinds of systems that we're

3653
02:19:30,145 --> 02:19:32,725
living in. Yeah. Thank you, Elaine.

3654
02:19:33,500 --> 02:19:34,000
So,

3655
02:19:34,380 --> 02:19:36,700
so this brings us to our end. Doctor

3656
02:19:36,700 --> 02:19:39,120
Elaine Ingham, thank you so much for sharing

3657
02:19:39,579 --> 02:19:41,120
your time and your expertise,

3658
02:19:41,899 --> 02:19:44,140
to join me today here on Shaping Fire.

3659
02:19:44,140 --> 02:19:45,360
But even more so,

3660
02:19:45,994 --> 02:19:48,555
thank you for your long career of of

3661
02:19:48,555 --> 02:19:51,273
research and sharing it and, you know, giving

3662
02:19:51,273 --> 02:19:53,375
a damn and sharing that too.

3663
02:19:54,475 --> 02:19:55,453
It was absolutely,

3664
02:19:55,994 --> 02:19:58,094
you know, I've I've enjoyed hearing you

3665
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:01,120
talk before, but it's been an absolute joy

3666
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:03,200
to have the opportunity to actually interact with

3667
02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:05,520
you. Thank you so much. Well, thank you.

3668
02:20:05,520 --> 02:20:07,620
Yeah. Some great questions, and

3669
02:20:08,479 --> 02:20:10,659
you led me through them in

3670
02:20:11,520 --> 02:20:12,101
a really

3671
02:20:12,655 --> 02:20:15,454
thoughtful and useful way. So I hope we

3672
02:20:15,454 --> 02:20:18,273
can do this again next year. Thank you.

3673
02:20:18,735 --> 02:20:20,895
So, dear listener, if you would like to

3674
02:20:20,895 --> 02:20:23,454
hear more from doctor Elaine Ingham, you're in

3675
02:20:23,454 --> 02:20:25,555
luck because she is a guest that,

3676
02:20:25,989 --> 02:20:27,829
there's a whole bunch online. So,

3677
02:20:28,469 --> 02:20:31,030
I recommend you start these three places. The

3678
02:20:31,030 --> 02:20:32,010
first and foremost

3679
02:20:32,549 --> 02:20:35,770
is soilfoodweb.com.

3680
02:20:36,629 --> 02:20:39,204
That is doctor Elaine's website. It's the home

3681
02:20:39,204 --> 02:20:41,465
of the school. There's all sorts of resources

3682
02:20:41,604 --> 02:20:43,145
and it's a great place to start.

3683
02:20:43,844 --> 02:20:47,385
The second place, especially if you, are interested

3684
02:20:47,523 --> 02:20:48,023
in,

3685
02:20:48,404 --> 02:20:51,064
you know, learning some techniques as you go

3686
02:20:51,250 --> 02:20:52,148
is the Instagram

3687
02:20:52,609 --> 02:20:54,209
for the school as well. And that's,

3688
02:20:55,010 --> 02:20:56,229
soil food

3689
02:20:56,530 --> 02:20:58,469
web school on Instagram.

3690
02:20:59,090 --> 02:21:00,450
And, you know, that there are there are,

3691
02:21:00,450 --> 02:21:02,689
like, kinda, you know, institutional posts about what's

3692
02:21:02,689 --> 02:21:04,290
going on at the school, but there's also

3693
02:21:04,290 --> 02:21:06,049
a whole bunch of technique in there as

3694
02:21:06,049 --> 02:21:08,524
well. And, you know, it's a profile that

3695
02:21:08,524 --> 02:21:11,806
that I enjoy following. And then finally, probably

3696
02:21:11,806 --> 02:21:13,325
the best place to go,

3697
02:21:13,726 --> 02:21:14,944
is is YouTube,

3698
02:21:15,405 --> 02:21:17,485
if you if you like listening to your

3699
02:21:17,485 --> 02:21:19,806
education like this. There's a whole bunch of

3700
02:21:19,806 --> 02:21:21,745
stuff that Elaine has done online.

3701
02:21:22,319 --> 02:21:25,840
And then, of course, doctor Elaine is, you

3702
02:21:25,840 --> 02:21:27,299
know, a a very published,

3703
02:21:27,760 --> 02:21:28,260
scientist.

3704
02:21:28,560 --> 02:21:30,560
And so if you also like to read

3705
02:21:30,560 --> 02:21:31,299
your education,

3706
02:21:32,159 --> 02:21:34,399
you can find, you know, you know, many

3707
02:21:34,399 --> 02:21:37,635
scientific papers and her books, you know, with

3708
02:21:37,635 --> 02:21:39,174
a with a simple search online.

3709
02:21:39,715 --> 02:21:41,475
You can find more episodes of the Shaping

3710
02:21:41,475 --> 02:21:43,555
Fire podcast and subscribe to the show at

3711
02:21:43,555 --> 02:21:44,754
shapingfire.com

3712
02:21:44,754 --> 02:21:46,375
and wherever you get your podcasts.

3713
02:21:46,754 --> 02:21:48,594
If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate

3714
02:21:48,594 --> 02:21:49,335
it if you would leave a positive review

3715
02:21:49,335 --> 02:21:49,421
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3716
02:21:49,421 --> 02:21:50,225
will help others find the show, so

3717
02:21:58,739 --> 02:22:01,459
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3718
02:22:01,459 --> 02:22:03,319
exclusive videos, and giveaways.

3719
02:22:03,834 --> 02:22:05,514
On the Shaping Fire website, you will also

3720
02:22:05,514 --> 02:22:08,475
find transcripts of today's podcast as well. Be

3721
02:22:08,475 --> 02:22:10,635
sure to follow on Instagram for all original

3722
02:22:10,635 --> 02:22:12,334
content not found on the podcast.

3723
02:22:12,715 --> 02:22:15,594
That's at shaping fire and at shango lows

3724
02:22:15,594 --> 02:22:16,254
on Instagram.

3725
02:22:16,649 --> 02:22:18,489
Be sure to check out Shaping Fire YouTube

3726
02:22:18,489 --> 02:22:21,290
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3727
02:22:21,290 --> 02:22:21,790
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3728
02:22:22,329 --> 02:22:24,489
Does your company wanna reach our national audience

3729
02:22:24,489 --> 02:22:25,709
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3730
02:22:26,170 --> 02:22:28,649
Email hotspot@shapingfire.com

3731
02:22:28,649 --> 02:22:30,729
to find out how. Thanks for listening to

3732
02:22:30,729 --> 02:22:33,895
Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.