1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,599 One of the aspects of cannabis medicine that 2 00:00:09,599 --> 00:00:11,519 we all appreciate is that it can be 3 00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:12,820 so easily individualized 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,394 for each person. It is far more adaptable 5 00:00:15,394 --> 00:00:18,214 than a one size fits all pharmaceutical approach. 6 00:00:18,594 --> 00:00:21,074 Also, cannabis preparations are so easy to make. 7 00:00:21,074 --> 00:00:22,454 They are open to everyone. 8 00:00:23,154 --> 00:00:25,154 We have definitely seen how hard it is 9 00:00:25,154 --> 00:00:27,634 to obtain medical cannabis products in the legal 10 00:00:27,634 --> 00:00:29,494 markets, both in terms of availability 11 00:00:30,219 --> 00:00:31,359 and price per unit. 12 00:00:31,739 --> 00:00:33,340 This is just one of the reasons why 13 00:00:33,340 --> 00:00:36,780 ShapingFire has always stood for cannabis patient self 14 00:00:36,780 --> 00:00:37,280 sufficiency 15 00:00:37,659 --> 00:00:39,119 for the last ten years. 16 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:41,739 Everyone should be able to grow and process 17 00:00:41,739 --> 00:00:42,640 their own medicine. 18 00:00:42,945 --> 00:00:45,925 And making proper medicine demands access to analytical 19 00:00:46,065 --> 00:00:49,745 labs because medicine is about repeatable results, not 20 00:00:49,745 --> 00:00:50,245 guesswork. 21 00:00:50,865 --> 00:00:53,344 Luckily, labs are available to patients in most 22 00:00:53,344 --> 00:00:53,844 states. 23 00:00:54,304 --> 00:00:55,844 Thanks to everyone who participated 24 00:00:56,304 --> 00:00:57,125 on the rambunctious 25 00:00:57,469 --> 00:01:00,829 thread on the ShapingFire Instagram page about analytical 26 00:01:00,829 --> 00:01:03,309 testing in your state. Looks like most states 27 00:01:03,309 --> 00:01:06,450 have testing for patients, but with everyone universally 28 00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:09,569 complaining about testing in Ohio, Michigan, and Florida. 29 00:01:10,234 --> 00:01:12,415 I don't think the fight for medical cannabis 30 00:01:12,475 --> 00:01:14,255 is gonna stop anytime soon. 31 00:01:15,755 --> 00:01:18,094 If you wanna learn about cannabis health, cultivation, 32 00:01:18,155 --> 00:01:20,475 and technique efficiently and with good cheer, I 33 00:01:20,475 --> 00:01:22,715 encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter. We'll 34 00:01:22,715 --> 00:01:24,840 send send you new podcast episodes as they 35 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,159 come out delivered right to your inbox along 36 00:01:27,159 --> 00:01:28,680 with commentary on a couple of the most 37 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,759 important news items for the week and videos 38 00:01:30,759 --> 00:01:33,000 too. 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You are listening to Shaping Fire, and 65 00:02:28,849 --> 00:02:30,230 I am your host, Shangelos. 66 00:02:30,610 --> 00:02:33,104 Welcome to episode 124. 67 00:02:33,504 --> 00:02:36,384 My guest today is doctor Amber Wise. Amber 68 00:02:36,384 --> 00:02:38,224 Wise, PhD, grew up in the woods of 69 00:02:38,224 --> 00:02:40,544 Northern Wisconsin and earned a degree in chemistry 70 00:02:40,544 --> 00:02:43,025 from the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point and 71 00:02:43,025 --> 00:02:45,284 a PhD in chemistry from UC Berkeley. 72 00:02:45,664 --> 00:02:48,560 Her extensive post grad work in science policy, 73 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:50,560 toxicology, and risk assessment 74 00:02:50,860 --> 00:02:53,419 include the Union of Concerned Scientists in Washington 75 00:02:53,419 --> 00:02:55,199 DC and UC San Francisco. 76 00:02:55,900 --> 00:02:58,139 She has taught in Bangladesh at the Asian 77 00:02:58,139 --> 00:03:01,084 University for Women, San Francisco State University and 78 00:03:01,084 --> 00:03:04,064 the UC Berkeley Extension, and Chicago State University. 79 00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:07,805 She then pivoted to a multistate cannabis operator 80 00:03:07,805 --> 00:03:09,724 to refine and optimize their c o two 81 00:03:09,724 --> 00:03:13,004 extraction and develop their strain specific low temperature 82 00:03:13,004 --> 00:03:13,905 terpene isolation. 83 00:03:14,870 --> 00:03:16,409 Amber Wise has been managing 84 00:03:16,790 --> 00:03:20,569 Medicine Creek Analytics in Fife, Washington since 2018, 85 00:03:20,710 --> 00:03:23,290 providing third party testing for the licensed cannabis 86 00:03:23,349 --> 00:03:23,849 market. 87 00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:27,129 She has published two peer reviewed scientific papers 88 00:03:27,189 --> 00:03:29,564 measuring heavy metals in the aerosols of cannabis 89 00:03:29,724 --> 00:03:30,465 vape cartridges 90 00:03:30,925 --> 00:03:32,685 and has donated a great deal of time 91 00:03:32,685 --> 00:03:34,705 to help Washington state cannabis policy. 92 00:03:35,324 --> 00:03:37,885 Amber has over a 150 houseplants and one 93 00:03:37,885 --> 00:03:38,385 aquarium. 94 00:03:38,844 --> 00:03:41,085 Today's episode is for cannabis patients and home 95 00:03:41,085 --> 00:03:43,560 growers who want to interact with cannabis labs. 96 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,239 During the first set, we break down the 97 00:03:45,239 --> 00:03:46,840 best ways to reach out to labs to 98 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,680 get the answers you want in ways that 99 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,139 keep you in the lab safe, 100 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:52,759 attributes to look for in a lab, preparing 101 00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:54,439 samples and how to get them to the 102 00:03:54,439 --> 00:03:57,085 lab without tainting them. In the second set, 103 00:03:57,085 --> 00:03:59,085 we discuss the varieties of tests you may 104 00:03:59,085 --> 00:04:01,245 want, what they mean and what they can 105 00:04:01,245 --> 00:04:04,284 really tell you. We discuss common fallacies people 106 00:04:04,284 --> 00:04:07,645 believe about testing results, heavy metals and why 107 00:04:07,645 --> 00:04:11,050 all these flour THC potency tests above 30% 108 00:04:11,050 --> 00:04:11,950 are so unreasonable. 109 00:04:12,490 --> 00:04:14,090 And we wrap up in the third set 110 00:04:14,090 --> 00:04:17,129 with best practices for making tinctures and full 111 00:04:17,129 --> 00:04:18,750 extract cannabis oil. 112 00:04:19,050 --> 00:04:21,210 Amber and her team don't teach extraction, but 113 00:04:21,210 --> 00:04:23,129 they sure have some best practices to learn 114 00:04:23,129 --> 00:04:24,990 from what they've seen in the testing lab. 115 00:04:25,175 --> 00:04:27,495 All these topics and more today on shaping 116 00:04:27,495 --> 00:04:29,035 fire one twenty four. 117 00:04:29,735 --> 00:04:31,675 Welcome to shaping fire, Amber. 118 00:04:32,615 --> 00:04:34,375 Thanks for having me. It's an honor to 119 00:04:34,375 --> 00:04:36,454 be invited. I've wanted to have you on, 120 00:04:36,615 --> 00:04:38,055 the show for a long time and was 121 00:04:38,055 --> 00:04:40,410 just looking for the right thing and, I 122 00:04:40,490 --> 00:04:42,490 think we finally found the right thing. So 123 00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:44,110 thank you so much for being here. 124 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:46,569 So, you know, let's get right into it. 125 00:04:48,009 --> 00:04:51,050 What are the things that patients and home 126 00:04:51,050 --> 00:04:53,449 growers should be looking for in a lab? 127 00:04:53,449 --> 00:04:55,629 And I can almost hear the joke already 128 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:57,685 They should be looking one for one that 129 00:04:57,685 --> 00:05:00,324 will even take their samples. Right? And and 130 00:05:00,324 --> 00:05:02,004 I get that. But but let's assume for 131 00:05:02,004 --> 00:05:03,444 a moment that a patient can be a 132 00:05:03,444 --> 00:05:06,004 little choosy. What what are the attributes that 133 00:05:06,004 --> 00:05:07,925 we're looking for in a good lab for 134 00:05:07,925 --> 00:05:09,925 a patient versus a good lab for a 135 00:05:09,925 --> 00:05:10,904 commercial company? 136 00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:13,439 Yeah. I think, 137 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,920 if you have options, right, just give them 138 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,680 a call. There's gonna be a phone number 139 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,800 on their website and ask if they accept 140 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,564 samples from medical patients or personal use 141 00:05:24,125 --> 00:05:25,985 folks. And if they do, 142 00:05:26,685 --> 00:05:28,845 you know, what sort of accreditations do they 143 00:05:28,845 --> 00:05:29,345 have? 144 00:05:29,725 --> 00:05:32,365 Are they certified with the state or are 145 00:05:32,365 --> 00:05:33,584 they ISO accredited? 146 00:05:34,685 --> 00:05:37,324 There's a there's a testing lab standard called 147 00:05:37,324 --> 00:05:39,185 ISO 17,025 148 00:05:39,509 --> 00:05:41,669 that is not cannabis specific, but, 149 00:05:42,069 --> 00:05:43,289 analytical lab 150 00:05:43,829 --> 00:05:44,729 labs in general, 151 00:05:45,189 --> 00:05:47,610 will get this certification. And it's 152 00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:50,729 a sign that they have good paper records 153 00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:52,009 and documentation 154 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:53,050 and processes. 155 00:05:54,415 --> 00:05:56,415 But that's not necessarily a sign of a 156 00:05:56,415 --> 00:05:57,634 great lab either. 157 00:05:58,415 --> 00:05:59,395 Like you said, 158 00:06:00,254 --> 00:06:01,775 if they will work with you at all, 159 00:06:01,775 --> 00:06:03,694 you know, lots of rules in different states 160 00:06:03,694 --> 00:06:06,415 vary and some states very specifically say you 161 00:06:06,415 --> 00:06:09,069 must have a license to transfer things to 162 00:06:09,069 --> 00:06:10,829 a testing lab or testing labs are only 163 00:06:10,829 --> 00:06:13,649 allowed to accept samples from a licensed 164 00:06:14,269 --> 00:06:15,329 producer processor, 165 00:06:15,709 --> 00:06:16,509 but some states, 166 00:06:16,910 --> 00:06:19,550 are different. And, you know, I, I manage 167 00:06:19,550 --> 00:06:21,970 a testing lab here in Washington state and 168 00:06:22,064 --> 00:06:25,024 we are able to take individual samples. And 169 00:06:25,024 --> 00:06:27,425 I think it's really important for medical patients 170 00:06:27,425 --> 00:06:29,285 and people that are making their own medicine 171 00:06:29,745 --> 00:06:31,365 to have access to testing. 172 00:06:31,985 --> 00:06:34,725 So, call around and ask if they accept 173 00:06:35,139 --> 00:06:37,620 samples, and then then you can ask other 174 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:40,660 follow-up questions about what sort of documentation they 175 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:42,759 might need or or how to submit samples 176 00:06:42,899 --> 00:06:44,039 because that will vary. 177 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:46,259 Right on. Well, I wanna give you a 178 00:06:46,259 --> 00:06:49,539 nod, and and appreciate that your lab takes, 179 00:06:49,860 --> 00:06:51,694 patient samples. There are not, 180 00:06:52,254 --> 00:06:52,995 very many. 181 00:06:53,295 --> 00:06:55,295 And it's nice to know that some folks 182 00:06:55,295 --> 00:06:57,634 are interested, e even though working with patients 183 00:06:58,254 --> 00:07:00,495 is is mostly just noise on on your 184 00:07:00,495 --> 00:07:01,314 balance sheet, 185 00:07:01,615 --> 00:07:04,199 compared to the to the commercial labs, it's 186 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,360 it's important work. And so thank you for 187 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,080 for all the patients everywhere for for for 188 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,740 raising that that medical flag still. 189 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,939 Yeah. It's really important, and, 190 00:07:15,879 --> 00:07:18,585 I I don't want so so so many 191 00:07:18,585 --> 00:07:20,745 patients have been forgotten in the rush to 192 00:07:20,745 --> 00:07:23,464 legalization, and I wanna make sure that we're 193 00:07:23,464 --> 00:07:26,525 respecting the people that allow legalization to happen 194 00:07:26,585 --> 00:07:29,564 and the the people that really need cannabis 195 00:07:29,705 --> 00:07:30,444 for medicine 196 00:07:31,220 --> 00:07:33,000 to improve their lives. Hear 197 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:34,020 hear. So, 198 00:07:34,420 --> 00:07:36,660 so because the whole background of cannabis has 199 00:07:36,660 --> 00:07:38,580 been so taboo and a lot of the 200 00:07:38,580 --> 00:07:41,800 patients are still very much in the taboo 201 00:07:41,860 --> 00:07:42,920 mindset because, 202 00:07:43,435 --> 00:07:45,354 you know, not really being included in the 203 00:07:45,354 --> 00:07:45,854 normalization 204 00:07:46,154 --> 00:07:48,574 process as much as as we'd like. 205 00:07:49,995 --> 00:07:52,014 Some people might have a hesitancy 206 00:07:52,475 --> 00:07:55,435 to call the lab because, a, they they 207 00:07:55,435 --> 00:07:57,935 might get the wrong person on the phone 208 00:07:58,580 --> 00:08:00,980 or the person on the phone might not 209 00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:03,460 want to say, yes. We take care of 210 00:08:03,460 --> 00:08:03,960 patients. 211 00:08:04,660 --> 00:08:07,060 Or, you know, patients very often just don't 212 00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:08,819 wanna be on the phone. Either they're stoned 213 00:08:08,819 --> 00:08:09,480 or neurodivergent 214 00:08:09,860 --> 00:08:10,600 or whatever. 215 00:08:11,055 --> 00:08:12,415 And and they and they don't want to 216 00:08:12,415 --> 00:08:14,415 be on the phone and so they will 217 00:08:14,415 --> 00:08:16,975 email. And and I've heard everything from patients 218 00:08:16,975 --> 00:08:19,455 who I've talked to about they're they're concerned 219 00:08:19,455 --> 00:08:20,834 about emailing because 220 00:08:21,134 --> 00:08:23,310 they don't want you to have to reply 221 00:08:23,550 --> 00:08:26,050 on the record that you take patient, 222 00:08:28,029 --> 00:08:30,509 samples. Or other people, they don't wanna call 223 00:08:30,509 --> 00:08:32,990 because they don't wanna get an incorrect answer 224 00:08:32,990 --> 00:08:35,309 from an admin assistant, which is different than 225 00:08:35,309 --> 00:08:36,990 the one that the director of the lab 226 00:08:36,990 --> 00:08:39,684 would get. And, you know, I've been I've 227 00:08:39,684 --> 00:08:41,524 been dealing with labs for, like, ten years 228 00:08:41,524 --> 00:08:43,924 now, and I kind of developed the opinion 229 00:08:43,924 --> 00:08:45,144 for myself that, 230 00:08:46,404 --> 00:08:48,804 labs are are have got to be up 231 00:08:48,804 --> 00:08:50,404 and up in a way that it doesn't 232 00:08:50,404 --> 00:08:52,829 really matter who you talk to. You're really 233 00:08:52,829 --> 00:08:55,070 gonna get the same answer from everybody in 234 00:08:55,070 --> 00:08:57,629 the lab because everybody knows the policy, and 235 00:08:57,629 --> 00:08:59,950 it doesn't really bend much. But I'm very 236 00:08:59,950 --> 00:09:02,190 willing to be wrong. So will you kinda 237 00:09:02,190 --> 00:09:05,549 address this idea of interacting with the lab 238 00:09:05,549 --> 00:09:07,230 and and trying to figure out whether or 239 00:09:07,230 --> 00:09:09,445 not there's a better way to do it? 240 00:09:10,545 --> 00:09:11,605 Yeah. That's interesting. 241 00:09:12,144 --> 00:09:14,384 I was basically gonna say the same thing 242 00:09:14,384 --> 00:09:16,625 that your opinion is is that, you know, 243 00:09:16,625 --> 00:09:18,705 if a lab is doing the right thing 244 00:09:18,705 --> 00:09:19,205 and 245 00:09:19,585 --> 00:09:21,504 they're not doing a lot of shady things, 246 00:09:21,504 --> 00:09:23,524 you're gonna get the same answer from everybody. 247 00:09:24,490 --> 00:09:27,529 I treat, you know, individual patient samples exactly 248 00:09:27,529 --> 00:09:28,909 the same way as I treat 249 00:09:29,370 --> 00:09:31,070 regular licensed samples. 250 00:09:31,450 --> 00:09:33,690 We use our same software, you know, I'm, 251 00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:36,985 I'm happy to communicate with patients or clients 252 00:09:36,985 --> 00:09:39,644 via email. I have nothing to hide really. 253 00:09:40,264 --> 00:09:41,404 I do have 254 00:09:41,865 --> 00:09:43,945 some small amounts of protection because of the 255 00:09:43,945 --> 00:09:45,625 way the rules are written in Washington state 256 00:09:45,625 --> 00:09:47,784 and the fact that we're owned by a 257 00:09:47,784 --> 00:09:48,684 tribal entity. 258 00:09:49,409 --> 00:09:51,089 But at the end of the day, I 259 00:09:51,089 --> 00:09:53,250 think that's you know, your first question was, 260 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:54,690 like, how do you know you're dealing with 261 00:09:54,690 --> 00:09:57,490 a reputable lab? I think if, you know, 262 00:09:57,490 --> 00:09:59,970 you're getting different answers from different people, that's 263 00:09:59,970 --> 00:10:01,909 a sign they might not be that reputable. 264 00:10:01,970 --> 00:10:03,889 That's a very good point, Amber. That's a 265 00:10:03,889 --> 00:10:04,629 good point. 266 00:10:06,735 --> 00:10:08,115 And I get people's hesitation, 267 00:10:08,575 --> 00:10:09,075 but 268 00:10:09,695 --> 00:10:12,014 most labs, you know, they're they're either gonna 269 00:10:12,014 --> 00:10:13,934 say, yes. We can help you or no. 270 00:10:13,934 --> 00:10:15,774 We can't. Right? There's not gonna be a 271 00:10:15,774 --> 00:10:18,414 lot of, oh, call this secret number or 272 00:10:18,414 --> 00:10:20,034 meet me on the corner. Right. 273 00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:22,879 And, you know, I get that people are 274 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:24,879 sometimes nervous to call or be on record, 275 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:25,379 but 276 00:10:25,759 --> 00:10:27,440 at, you know, at this day and age 277 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,200 in the, in The US, at least even 278 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,720 if you're in a state that doesn't have 279 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:31,379 a legal 280 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,680 adult rec program and you have maybe a 281 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:34,899 hemp testing lab, 282 00:10:35,815 --> 00:10:38,054 you know, the the taboos are are not 283 00:10:38,054 --> 00:10:39,914 so much that you can't call a business 284 00:10:40,054 --> 00:10:42,455 that actually handles cannabis or hemp and ask 285 00:10:42,455 --> 00:10:44,475 them a question about their business. 286 00:10:45,174 --> 00:10:46,934 It's so it's so hard though at the 287 00:10:46,934 --> 00:10:48,394 patient level to know, 288 00:10:49,014 --> 00:10:52,340 like, where the selective enforcement is. Right? Like, 289 00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:54,519 those of us who are in the industry, 290 00:10:54,899 --> 00:10:56,440 you know, I I've I've gotten so 291 00:10:56,899 --> 00:11:00,100 comfortable with with traveling and flying with, like, 292 00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:02,419 you know, things that I need for events 293 00:11:02,419 --> 00:11:04,445 and such that I forget that normal people 294 00:11:04,445 --> 00:11:06,445 are still, you know, you know, can I 295 00:11:06,445 --> 00:11:08,544 can I can I roll can I fly 296 00:11:08,684 --> 00:11:10,445 with my pre roll? Right? And I'm like, 297 00:11:10,445 --> 00:11:12,684 dude, I brought 30 for an event. You 298 00:11:12,684 --> 00:11:13,184 know? 299 00:11:13,804 --> 00:11:15,804 Yeah. I mean, certainly no one's tracking your 300 00:11:15,804 --> 00:11:18,009 phone number and following up with the cops 301 00:11:18,009 --> 00:11:20,029 after that phone call to the lab. Right? 302 00:11:20,330 --> 00:11:22,410 Totally. That you know, we're not at that 303 00:11:22,410 --> 00:11:26,269 level of, taboo or, you know, illegalness. So 304 00:11:26,649 --> 00:11:28,170 I I all I also wanna give a 305 00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:30,105 shout out to all everybody in the industry 306 00:11:30,165 --> 00:11:32,325 who rolled their eyes when I said brought 307 00:11:32,325 --> 00:11:34,165 30 pre rolls because I know you folks 308 00:11:34,165 --> 00:11:35,465 bring a whole lot more. 309 00:11:37,445 --> 00:11:39,684 Okay. So then let's focus on what the 310 00:11:39,684 --> 00:11:42,264 most common tests are that you actually, 311 00:11:43,125 --> 00:11:45,179 offer to patients because, of course, you know, 312 00:11:45,179 --> 00:11:48,620 labs offer a whole slew of of different 313 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:50,059 types of tests but a lot of those 314 00:11:50,059 --> 00:11:50,799 are really 315 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:54,080 designed for the licensed industry and for scalable 316 00:11:54,299 --> 00:11:55,980 product and all of that and it's not 317 00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:58,955 really for like, the individual patient who's trying 318 00:11:58,955 --> 00:12:00,975 to create their own medicine and stay well. 319 00:12:01,115 --> 00:12:03,195 So would you kind of slow walk us 320 00:12:03,195 --> 00:12:06,235 through the menu of of tests that that 321 00:12:06,235 --> 00:12:09,055 labs offer that that patients might wanna consider? 322 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:10,850 Yeah. 323 00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:13,549 So the most common one is what most 324 00:12:13,549 --> 00:12:14,610 people call potency, 325 00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:16,509 but I try not to use that term 326 00:12:16,509 --> 00:12:18,690 as a scientist because that has pharmacological 327 00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:21,309 implications and it's not really what we're measuring 328 00:12:21,309 --> 00:12:23,855 in that test. What we're measuring is cannabinoid 329 00:12:23,995 --> 00:12:24,495 concentration, 330 00:12:25,115 --> 00:12:26,175 cannabinoid panel. 331 00:12:26,795 --> 00:12:28,555 I think your listeners are savvy enough to 332 00:12:28,555 --> 00:12:29,035 know, 333 00:12:29,514 --> 00:12:31,675 that it's, you know, the weight percent of 334 00:12:31,675 --> 00:12:33,375 cannabinoids in that product. 335 00:12:34,235 --> 00:12:36,815 So most commercial labs have about eight 336 00:12:37,355 --> 00:12:40,500 to 12 cannabinoids on their standard panel. 337 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:43,519 Some labs in in some states might only 338 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:47,779 have a THCA, THC, CBDA, CBD combo. 339 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,784 But there's generally like some additional ones as 340 00:12:51,784 --> 00:12:55,144 well, CBGA, which is the precursor molecule. So 341 00:12:55,144 --> 00:12:56,825 you'll often see a small amount of that 342 00:12:56,825 --> 00:12:59,625 in flower or extracts because there's some leftover 343 00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:00,445 in the plant. 344 00:13:02,220 --> 00:13:04,620 And so so that's pretty standard. And that's 345 00:13:04,620 --> 00:13:06,539 obviously what people are interested in in terms 346 00:13:06,539 --> 00:13:07,120 of dosing, 347 00:13:07,659 --> 00:13:10,139 and understanding, you know, how many cannabinoids do 348 00:13:10,139 --> 00:13:10,879 you have present? 349 00:13:11,740 --> 00:13:12,720 Additional tests, 350 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:15,820 for regulatory purposes are often focused on public 351 00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:16,799 health and safety. 352 00:13:17,105 --> 00:13:19,125 So things like pesticide screens, 353 00:13:19,985 --> 00:13:21,125 heavy metal screens, 354 00:13:21,425 --> 00:13:24,945 microbial panels, like salmonella, e coli that can 355 00:13:24,945 --> 00:13:25,845 make you sick. 356 00:13:26,384 --> 00:13:30,100 And so I generally recommend if people are 357 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:30,600 interested 358 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:32,840 in screening for safety 359 00:13:33,379 --> 00:13:35,700 as someone who's doing a home grow or 360 00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:36,840 making their own medicine, 361 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,919 I often recommend heavy metals before I recommend 362 00:13:41,220 --> 00:13:41,720 pesticides. 363 00:13:43,434 --> 00:13:45,434 Because even if you grew it yourself in 364 00:13:45,434 --> 00:13:48,154 your own yard or, you know, the soil 365 00:13:48,154 --> 00:13:49,835 that you bought that, you know, was promised 366 00:13:49,835 --> 00:13:50,575 to be clean, 367 00:13:51,195 --> 00:13:52,014 a lot of 368 00:13:52,394 --> 00:13:54,735 properties can be unknowingly contaminated. 369 00:13:55,115 --> 00:13:55,615 Gardens, 370 00:13:55,995 --> 00:13:58,120 in urban areas, even in rural 371 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:00,659 areas. I don't want to scare people, but 372 00:14:00,659 --> 00:14:02,339 it's not a bad idea to get your 373 00:14:02,339 --> 00:14:04,600 soil tested if you plan to grow outdoors. 374 00:14:05,459 --> 00:14:07,080 It's generally pretty inexpensive 375 00:14:07,459 --> 00:14:09,779 to get a soil test done locally. It's 376 00:14:09,779 --> 00:14:11,384 a different lab than what would be running 377 00:14:11,384 --> 00:14:13,785 your cannabis test. And where I live in 378 00:14:13,785 --> 00:14:15,945 King County, you can actually get soil tests 379 00:14:15,945 --> 00:14:18,024 done for free to a certain extent, in 380 00:14:18,024 --> 00:14:18,684 your property. 381 00:14:20,425 --> 00:14:20,925 So, 382 00:14:21,304 --> 00:14:24,105 so, and, and cannabis plants are also known 383 00:14:24,105 --> 00:14:24,764 to uptake 384 00:14:25,144 --> 00:14:28,399 metals from soil. So if it's there, it 385 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:30,000 might it might end up in your in 386 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:30,740 your product. 387 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,279 So that's one that I sometimes recommend if 388 00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:36,160 you're interested in something additional. So Amber, before 389 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,160 we move on to heavy metals, I would 390 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,679 like to comment on this. And what's also 391 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:41,440 funny, I forgot that we live so close 392 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,774 because I am also in King County. And 393 00:14:43,774 --> 00:14:45,295 I'm like, wait a minute. I have actually 394 00:14:45,295 --> 00:14:46,674 had that test done. 395 00:14:47,535 --> 00:14:50,195 Where I live here on Vashon Island, 396 00:14:50,975 --> 00:14:53,955 I am, slightly downwind from the old, 397 00:14:55,079 --> 00:14:55,579 Asarco 398 00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:57,899 building in Tacoma, 399 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:00,679 and we used to get all the fumes 400 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:01,500 of arsenic. 401 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:04,759 And so the very southern tip of the 402 00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:05,259 island, 403 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,054 has had arsenic on it for decades, and 404 00:15:08,054 --> 00:15:09,975 they've replaced lots of that soil. And it's 405 00:15:09,975 --> 00:15:11,914 just been a big old mess. And people 406 00:15:11,975 --> 00:15:14,634 are very concerned with their food gardens. Right? 407 00:15:14,934 --> 00:15:15,754 And so, 408 00:15:16,615 --> 00:15:19,514 anywhere on the island that I have, cultivated 409 00:15:21,014 --> 00:15:22,049 food or 410 00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:23,110 flowers, 411 00:15:23,730 --> 00:15:24,629 I have always 412 00:15:25,049 --> 00:15:25,549 been 413 00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:26,789 in containers. 414 00:15:27,330 --> 00:15:29,490 Well, I really wanted to do a really 415 00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:31,889 big food garden this year for just general 416 00:15:31,889 --> 00:15:33,809 food security. Seems like it's a pretty good 417 00:15:33,809 --> 00:15:36,144 idea right now. Yep. And so, 418 00:15:36,684 --> 00:15:38,605 I I I wanted to build out the 419 00:15:38,764 --> 00:15:40,225 this the this large, 420 00:15:40,845 --> 00:15:42,764 like, you know, 80 by 40 garden on 421 00:15:42,764 --> 00:15:44,784 my property, but I live within the plume. 422 00:15:45,164 --> 00:15:47,164 So I did reach out to King County, 423 00:15:47,164 --> 00:15:49,580 and they did send people out, and they 424 00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:51,039 did test my soil. 425 00:15:51,659 --> 00:15:53,980 And and what a sigh of relief I 426 00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:56,620 had to find out that the amount of 427 00:15:56,620 --> 00:15:59,980 arsenic in my soil is actually lower than 428 00:15:59,980 --> 00:16:00,799 the natural 429 00:16:01,179 --> 00:16:01,679 background 430 00:16:02,299 --> 00:16:02,799 arsenic 431 00:16:03,125 --> 00:16:04,904 that there is in our area. 432 00:16:05,445 --> 00:16:06,184 And so, 433 00:16:06,644 --> 00:16:08,644 for years, no one's been growing food on 434 00:16:08,644 --> 00:16:10,964 this property just assuming that there was arsenic. 435 00:16:10,964 --> 00:16:12,325 But but I was able to test it 436 00:16:12,325 --> 00:16:14,325 and find out it was not only not 437 00:16:14,325 --> 00:16:16,725 the case, my soil was actually better than 438 00:16:16,725 --> 00:16:18,149 most of the rest of the soil on 439 00:16:18,149 --> 00:16:18,809 the island. 440 00:16:19,429 --> 00:16:21,990 And so, and that that that was free. 441 00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:22,730 And so 442 00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:25,350 that's just a good example of of if 443 00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:27,929 you've got these services from your your county 444 00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:30,865 or your local extension office or something, go 445 00:16:30,865 --> 00:16:32,384 ahead and use them because they can they 446 00:16:32,384 --> 00:16:33,825 can buy you a lot of peace of 447 00:16:33,825 --> 00:16:36,065 mind. And also, if we're talking about specifically 448 00:16:36,065 --> 00:16:37,825 for flour, you do not wanna be smoking 449 00:16:37,825 --> 00:16:39,205 that even in trace amounts. 450 00:16:39,825 --> 00:16:41,745 Right. Yeah. Exactly. And even if you have 451 00:16:41,745 --> 00:16:43,904 to pay, they're usually 25 or $50, 452 00:16:44,465 --> 00:16:44,965 and 453 00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:47,279 it's not, you know, it's totally legal to 454 00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:49,759 send metal, you know, soil over state lines 455 00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:51,220 or whatever and find a lab. 456 00:16:51,519 --> 00:16:54,019 It's it's not anything as complicated as cannabis. 457 00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:55,379 Yeah. That's true. 458 00:16:57,279 --> 00:16:59,120 So, yeah, moving on to other tests. Thank 459 00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,360 you. 460 00:17:00,195 --> 00:17:00,695 Pesticides, 461 00:17:02,035 --> 00:17:04,355 are a test that most labs will run 462 00:17:04,355 --> 00:17:07,714 for regulatory purposes, but every state has a 463 00:17:07,714 --> 00:17:10,214 different list of pesticides that they look for. 464 00:17:10,595 --> 00:17:13,015 And commonly used garden pesticides 465 00:17:13,315 --> 00:17:15,095 like Roundup, which is glyphosate 466 00:17:15,394 --> 00:17:17,200 or, you know, some of these other things 467 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,539 that are often in groundwater, like atrazine, 468 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,799 aren't actually on our list of pesticides that 469 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:23,779 we look for. 470 00:17:24,159 --> 00:17:27,380 And there's complicated reasons for that, but generally 471 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,164 testing labs stick to the regulatory list of 472 00:17:30,164 --> 00:17:33,464 pesticides, which aren't always necessarily all the pesticides 473 00:17:33,605 --> 00:17:34,744 in commercial use. 474 00:17:35,605 --> 00:17:37,285 So that's something that, you know, I'm happy 475 00:17:37,285 --> 00:17:38,804 to run for folks, but it's a little 476 00:17:38,804 --> 00:17:40,984 bit more pricey and it's not necessarily 477 00:17:41,525 --> 00:17:43,704 a guarantee that your crop is 478 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:45,660 free. 479 00:17:46,539 --> 00:17:49,420 And then there's, things like microbial panels. And 480 00:17:49,420 --> 00:17:52,059 if you're making edibles or tinctures, it's not 481 00:17:52,059 --> 00:17:54,140 a bad idea to run a salmonella or 482 00:17:54,140 --> 00:17:56,480 E coli screen just to make sure that, 483 00:17:56,539 --> 00:17:57,944 you know, you're not going to get sick 484 00:17:57,944 --> 00:18:00,105 from it, but they're pretty rare assuming that 485 00:18:00,105 --> 00:18:02,664 you're, you know, using just general clean kitchen 486 00:18:02,664 --> 00:18:03,164 practices. 487 00:18:04,345 --> 00:18:05,944 But you know, it's something that people might 488 00:18:05,944 --> 00:18:08,345 be very sensitive to and interested in screening. 489 00:18:08,345 --> 00:18:10,845 And those usually aren't all that expensive. 490 00:18:12,099 --> 00:18:14,339 Obviously, if you're growing your own, you're doing 491 00:18:14,339 --> 00:18:17,220 a close visible inspection for mold or bud 492 00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:18,200 rot or something. 493 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,019 You don't need a lab for that kind 494 00:18:20,019 --> 00:18:20,519 of 495 00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:21,880 detection. 496 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:24,315 But even if you do get some mold 497 00:18:24,315 --> 00:18:26,554 or bud rot, there can potentially be ways 498 00:18:26,554 --> 00:18:28,575 to salvage that slightly moldy material 499 00:18:29,115 --> 00:18:31,375 using like ethanol extractions and oral, 500 00:18:32,394 --> 00:18:34,654 mixtures and stuff. So I don't wanna like 501 00:18:35,035 --> 00:18:37,169 say that it's safe to use moldy material, 502 00:18:37,169 --> 00:18:39,169 but there are ways of extracting it that 503 00:18:39,169 --> 00:18:41,750 can salvage the cannabinoids that are there. 504 00:18:42,849 --> 00:18:45,169 So, so yeah. And then you'd obviously wanna 505 00:18:45,169 --> 00:18:48,549 like probably screen that extract for any microbial 506 00:18:48,849 --> 00:18:49,909 growth or mycotoxins, 507 00:18:51,545 --> 00:18:53,625 once it was made and for peace of 508 00:18:53,625 --> 00:18:54,125 mind. 509 00:18:54,505 --> 00:18:55,865 But those are the main ones that I 510 00:18:55,865 --> 00:18:58,025 recommend for folks. And then there's also one 511 00:18:58,025 --> 00:18:59,484 called residual solvents 512 00:19:00,105 --> 00:19:02,984 that's related to concentrates when you do an 513 00:19:02,984 --> 00:19:06,180 extract. And a lot of people commonly use 514 00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:08,920 ethanol at home to make extracts and tinctures. 515 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:11,720 And if you run a residual solvent test 516 00:19:11,859 --> 00:19:13,940 on a tincture or an, on an extract 517 00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:15,480 or like an RSO or something 518 00:19:15,859 --> 00:19:18,500 that used ethanol, you're probably gonna get a 519 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:19,894 very high number 520 00:19:20,275 --> 00:19:22,674 in parts per million for ethanol. And that 521 00:19:22,674 --> 00:19:24,835 doesn't necessarily mean it's unsafe. It might even 522 00:19:24,835 --> 00:19:27,255 be, something that would be over a regulatory 523 00:19:27,394 --> 00:19:28,535 limit for a fail. 524 00:19:29,715 --> 00:19:32,215 But depending upon how you're ingesting that, 525 00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:34,769 it might not be an unsafe amount. 526 00:19:35,150 --> 00:19:35,650 So, 527 00:19:36,590 --> 00:19:39,250 you know, there are regulatory requirements for safety 528 00:19:39,309 --> 00:19:42,450 reasons and, and certainly there are legal requirements 529 00:19:42,509 --> 00:19:44,509 to label things that have ethanol in it. 530 00:19:44,509 --> 00:19:45,009 And, 531 00:19:45,634 --> 00:19:47,894 you know, liquor laws vary in different places, 532 00:19:48,355 --> 00:19:48,755 but, 533 00:19:49,714 --> 00:19:51,875 that can be something that might be able 534 00:19:51,875 --> 00:19:53,394 to give you an idea of how much 535 00:19:53,394 --> 00:19:54,994 is left over. It's very 536 00:19:57,509 --> 00:20:00,110 all the ethanol at home from from a 537 00:20:00,309 --> 00:20:01,930 an RSO or something like that. 538 00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:04,710 You know, that really is startling the first 539 00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:06,730 time that somebody sees 540 00:20:07,269 --> 00:20:09,849 a residual ethanol in their RSO, 541 00:20:10,150 --> 00:20:13,325 and the number is so much strikingly higher 542 00:20:13,325 --> 00:20:15,984 than the state legal minimum for licensees. 543 00:20:16,924 --> 00:20:18,765 But then and so then you find out 544 00:20:18,845 --> 00:20:20,525 you know, this is varies from state to 545 00:20:20,525 --> 00:20:22,445 state. But in in some states, it's a 546 00:20:22,445 --> 00:20:24,365 health reason. But in some states, it's just 547 00:20:24,365 --> 00:20:27,389 that the cannabis stores aren't allowed to sell 548 00:20:27,389 --> 00:20:29,470 alcohol. And if and if there's more than 549 00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:30,990 a breath of it in there, suddenly now 550 00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:32,210 they're calling it alcohol. 551 00:20:32,669 --> 00:20:35,389 And so when I'm working with patients, I'm 552 00:20:35,389 --> 00:20:38,295 constantly trying to explain to them that, yes, 553 00:20:38,775 --> 00:20:42,775 your number looks really scary compared to the 554 00:20:42,775 --> 00:20:43,275 state 555 00:20:44,134 --> 00:20:44,634 maximum, 556 00:20:45,095 --> 00:20:47,015 but you need to know why that state 557 00:20:47,015 --> 00:20:49,654 maximum is set where it is. Your your 558 00:20:49,654 --> 00:20:51,329 residual ethanol is 559 00:20:51,809 --> 00:20:52,390 actually incredibly 560 00:20:52,849 --> 00:20:54,369 good. And if you do the math, it 561 00:20:54,369 --> 00:20:55,029 would take 562 00:20:55,409 --> 00:20:59,089 fourteen million doses of that to equal one 563 00:20:59,089 --> 00:21:02,309 shot of alcohol. Right? So you're you're actually 564 00:21:02,529 --> 00:21:04,950 safe, but the numbers are so many zeros. 565 00:21:05,605 --> 00:21:06,964 Right. And that's what I was gonna say 566 00:21:06,964 --> 00:21:08,884 about, like, people being scared about math is, 567 00:21:08,884 --> 00:21:10,565 like, the units we use to measure that 568 00:21:10,565 --> 00:21:13,845 are often PPM, and 5,000 PPM is the 569 00:21:13,845 --> 00:21:16,325 action limit in Washington state for ethanol. That's 570 00:21:16,325 --> 00:21:19,444 a big number, but in 5,000 PPM is 571 00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:20,585 only half a percent. 572 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,480 Mhmm. And if if that's a it's a 573 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,559 tincture that you're only taking, like, a few 574 00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:26,380 drops of, 575 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,240 you know, you're it's a level amount. You 576 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:30,460 know, there's more in kombucha. 577 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,039 The other thing that was pointed out, in 578 00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:35,184 a group I was in the other day 579 00:21:35,184 --> 00:21:37,904 was somebody was really concerned about how much 580 00:21:37,904 --> 00:21:41,184 ethanol was in their RSO to take. And 581 00:21:41,184 --> 00:21:43,125 then somebody else in the group pointed out, 582 00:21:43,505 --> 00:21:45,984 you take alcohol tinctures. What are you even 583 00:21:45,984 --> 00:21:48,880 complaining about? Yeah. And everybody laughed because it 584 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,680 really just depends on what venue, you know, 585 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,700 what part of the puzzle you're looking at. 586 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:54,420 Mhmm. 587 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,160 I want to hit on, pesticides before before 588 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,795 we move forward. Yeah. Just because I I 589 00:22:00,795 --> 00:22:02,554 have this little piece of, I don't know, 590 00:22:02,554 --> 00:22:04,554 I guess we'll call this negativity or or 591 00:22:04,554 --> 00:22:05,934 darkness that I always 592 00:22:06,234 --> 00:22:07,755 I always think about when we talk about 593 00:22:07,755 --> 00:22:09,835 pesticide testing. And since we're here, I guess 594 00:22:09,835 --> 00:22:11,194 we might as well tease it out. We 595 00:22:11,194 --> 00:22:13,275 could do a whole show on pesticide testing, 596 00:22:13,275 --> 00:22:14,929 of course. I used to work in the 597 00:22:14,929 --> 00:22:17,490 area of of pesticide exposure too separate from 598 00:22:17,490 --> 00:22:19,410 cannabis, so I could talk all day about 599 00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:21,089 it. Right on. So I just wanted I 600 00:22:21,089 --> 00:22:22,950 just wanna hit this one part, which is, 601 00:22:23,089 --> 00:22:25,009 you know, some people say, oh, our state 602 00:22:25,009 --> 00:22:27,650 has pesticide testing, and, oh, our our state 603 00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:29,865 doesn't or ours isn't enforced or not. And 604 00:22:29,944 --> 00:22:32,265 and, honestly, I'm of the opinion that it 605 00:22:32,265 --> 00:22:34,904 doesn't really matter if you have state level 606 00:22:34,904 --> 00:22:38,265 pesticide testing or not. It's really about knowing 607 00:22:38,265 --> 00:22:40,984 your grower and knowing what their intention is 608 00:22:40,984 --> 00:22:41,484 because 609 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:42,700 even 610 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,799 the the tests that we're getting on, for 611 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,859 pesticides on our cannabis, these these these pesticides 612 00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:52,519 have generally never been tested for inhalation full 613 00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:55,019 pure full stop. They have only been 614 00:22:55,414 --> 00:22:58,474 tested for eating these pesticides. So 615 00:22:58,775 --> 00:23:01,974 just because a state has pesticide testing and 616 00:23:01,974 --> 00:23:04,954 it has passed it really doesn't say anything 617 00:23:05,255 --> 00:23:08,154 about your actual health. All it talks about 618 00:23:08,410 --> 00:23:10,410 is the health of if you were to 619 00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:11,470 eat your cannabis. 620 00:23:11,849 --> 00:23:15,069 And so it really, really is to about 621 00:23:15,289 --> 00:23:17,769 knowing your cultivator and knowing that you share 622 00:23:17,769 --> 00:23:19,549 values with them on using pesticides. 623 00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:22,410 Yeah. And the other thing I try to 624 00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:24,554 put in perspective for folks, and this is 625 00:23:24,554 --> 00:23:26,794 again, scare people about the food that you 626 00:23:26,794 --> 00:23:27,294 eat, 627 00:23:27,674 --> 00:23:29,755 but, you know, when, if and when there 628 00:23:29,755 --> 00:23:32,794 are pesticides detected in cannabis, it's often at 629 00:23:32,794 --> 00:23:35,194 super tiny amounts. There are trace levels that 630 00:23:35,194 --> 00:23:37,034 are in the environment and for whatever reason 631 00:23:37,034 --> 00:23:38,414 are coming through in the test. 632 00:23:38,890 --> 00:23:41,470 And you don't ingest very much cannabis, 633 00:23:41,849 --> 00:23:44,009 you know, on a on a mass scale. 634 00:23:44,009 --> 00:23:46,190 Right? Grams, maybe at most 635 00:23:46,569 --> 00:23:47,230 a day. 636 00:23:47,529 --> 00:23:50,490 And we don't test and and cannabis is 637 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:53,630 generally tested every lot. Every harvest is tested, 638 00:23:54,445 --> 00:23:57,085 unlike your food. Right? We're not testing every 639 00:23:57,085 --> 00:23:59,244 lot of kale or lettuce or green beans 640 00:23:59,244 --> 00:24:00,625 that come out of every field. 641 00:24:01,005 --> 00:24:02,545 And there are there are standards 642 00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:06,285 for pesticide residues, and they are screened at 643 00:24:06,285 --> 00:24:06,785 random 644 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:09,009 across the country. And you can look up 645 00:24:09,009 --> 00:24:11,250 average values for The United States, and they 646 00:24:11,250 --> 00:24:12,230 are not small. 647 00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:16,450 And so, you know, obviously eating organic will 648 00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:18,769 reduce that to some extent. But at the 649 00:24:18,769 --> 00:24:21,525 end of the day, the the the exposure 650 00:24:21,525 --> 00:24:23,445 you might have to pesticides from your cannabis 651 00:24:23,445 --> 00:24:25,365 use is going to be very small compared 652 00:24:25,365 --> 00:24:28,164 to your everyday exposure to chemicals in the 653 00:24:28,164 --> 00:24:28,664 environment. 654 00:24:29,924 --> 00:24:32,404 For sure. Alright. So let's talk about these 655 00:24:32,404 --> 00:24:32,904 samples. 656 00:24:33,205 --> 00:24:34,884 You know, it it was years ago now 657 00:24:34,884 --> 00:24:36,710 that I was sitting down at lunch with, 658 00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:38,410 one of my most respected, 659 00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:42,150 herbalist, doctor Michelle Sexton from down in San 660 00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:45,430 Diego. Yeah. And she worked on the, herbal 661 00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:45,930 pharmacopoeia 662 00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:47,369 for cannabis 663 00:24:48,075 --> 00:24:50,554 along with other folks. And she was explaining 664 00:24:50,554 --> 00:24:52,734 to me the section of how, 665 00:24:53,115 --> 00:24:53,855 they recommend 666 00:24:54,394 --> 00:24:58,554 you take samples of of commercial lots. And 667 00:24:58,554 --> 00:25:00,315 it's, you know, it's very involved. You know, 668 00:25:00,315 --> 00:25:02,339 you start out with this this big matrix 669 00:25:02,339 --> 00:25:03,859 and you take half of this and half 670 00:25:03,859 --> 00:25:05,220 of that and then half of this and 671 00:25:05,220 --> 00:25:06,740 half of that again, and then you mix 672 00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:09,059 them up and throw salt over your shoulder 673 00:25:09,059 --> 00:25:10,819 and then take half again and boom. Now 674 00:25:10,819 --> 00:25:12,819 you have your flower. Right? And and the 675 00:25:12,819 --> 00:25:15,075 idea is to kind of, like, work in 676 00:25:15,075 --> 00:25:16,295 a little bit of randomization, 677 00:25:16,674 --> 00:25:18,275 I think, to so that you get an, 678 00:25:18,434 --> 00:25:20,375 a random sample. But, also, 679 00:25:20,755 --> 00:25:23,394 the goal is is to to to stop 680 00:25:23,394 --> 00:25:25,795 people from doing the, okay. I took my 681 00:25:25,795 --> 00:25:27,809 ColaBud. I rolled it in Keith, and now 682 00:25:27,809 --> 00:25:29,410 I'm sending it to the lab, right, where 683 00:25:29,410 --> 00:25:31,570 people try to game their numbers. But but 684 00:25:31,570 --> 00:25:33,250 in the case that we're talking about, patients 685 00:25:33,250 --> 00:25:35,330 are are rarely trying to game their numbers. 686 00:25:35,330 --> 00:25:38,130 They actually wanna know the actuality of what 687 00:25:38,130 --> 00:25:40,470 they're experiencing because they're creating their own medicine, 688 00:25:40,529 --> 00:25:42,255 and they need to make the RSO at 689 00:25:42,255 --> 00:25:45,215 the potency that that they're looking for. And 690 00:25:45,215 --> 00:25:47,934 so I'm there's, like, a gray area, right, 691 00:25:47,934 --> 00:25:49,154 where where the 692 00:25:49,775 --> 00:25:51,695 how do you choose a sample when you 693 00:25:51,695 --> 00:25:53,535 work at a licensed company and you really 694 00:25:53,535 --> 00:25:55,470 do need to use science, you know, scientific 695 00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:57,630 method, if you will, to to get the 696 00:25:57,630 --> 00:25:59,009 right one versus 697 00:25:59,390 --> 00:26:01,069 when, you know, when I'm over at a 698 00:26:01,069 --> 00:26:03,069 patient's house and they're showing me their jar 699 00:26:03,069 --> 00:26:05,309 jar of RSO and they're like, what part 700 00:26:05,309 --> 00:26:06,589 of this do I send to the lab, 701 00:26:06,589 --> 00:26:07,089 Shango? 702 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:09,150 And and and mostly, I, you know, I 703 00:26:09,150 --> 00:26:10,369 I have them put in a, 704 00:26:10,724 --> 00:26:12,653 you know, a a long pipette of some 705 00:26:12,653 --> 00:26:15,204 sort and kinda move it around the jar 706 00:26:15,204 --> 00:26:17,044 while sucking it up so you get little 707 00:26:17,044 --> 00:26:18,825 bits all over the place. And I'm like, 708 00:26:18,884 --> 00:26:21,304 boom. There you go. And and and, 709 00:26:21,765 --> 00:26:23,684 you know, I'll be really embarrassed if you 710 00:26:23,684 --> 00:26:25,065 tell me that that's, like, total 711 00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:27,259 heresy, but but that's kind of why we're 712 00:26:27,259 --> 00:26:29,259 here, right, is to to ask you, what's 713 00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:31,180 how should we be doing this, Amber, if 714 00:26:31,180 --> 00:26:32,460 we, you know, if we if we don't 715 00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:34,220 have these huge lots and if and if 716 00:26:34,220 --> 00:26:36,059 the patient I'm talking with only has, like, 717 00:26:36,059 --> 00:26:37,275 a few cups of this, 718 00:26:38,154 --> 00:26:40,575 how how do I try to, help them 719 00:26:40,875 --> 00:26:43,434 get the best sample other than don't take 720 00:26:43,434 --> 00:26:44,714 it off the top, don't take it off 721 00:26:44,714 --> 00:26:45,295 the bottom? 722 00:26:46,154 --> 00:26:48,075 Yeah. I think you're exactly thinking about it 723 00:26:48,075 --> 00:26:50,315 right. You wanna make sure it's well mixed. 724 00:26:50,315 --> 00:26:52,670 So we'll talk about flour, and then we'll 725 00:26:52,670 --> 00:26:55,970 talk about, like, RSO or concentrates Please. Separate. 726 00:26:57,069 --> 00:26:59,250 So I'll start with the concentrates part. 727 00:26:59,789 --> 00:27:02,349 We're talking about RSO or some sort of, 728 00:27:02,349 --> 00:27:02,930 you know, 729 00:27:03,470 --> 00:27:05,789 coconut oil extract or something. Just make sure 730 00:27:05,789 --> 00:27:07,089 it's really well mixed. 731 00:27:08,184 --> 00:27:10,664 And the best kind of container to send 732 00:27:10,664 --> 00:27:12,525 it into a lab when it's a weird 733 00:27:12,664 --> 00:27:13,164 goopy, 734 00:27:13,545 --> 00:27:16,125 maybe kind of liquid, maybe pasty thing, 735 00:27:16,904 --> 00:27:17,805 is a syringe, 736 00:27:18,184 --> 00:27:20,105 a medical syringe with a cap on the 737 00:27:20,105 --> 00:27:22,025 end. And then also put that syringe in 738 00:27:22,025 --> 00:27:22,829 another baggie. 739 00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:25,069 Sometimes they leak a little bit. 740 00:27:26,029 --> 00:27:28,829 Otherwise, like a glass liquid tight container, like 741 00:27:28,829 --> 00:27:30,909 a tincture dropper jar. I mean, I know 742 00:27:30,909 --> 00:27:32,909 that individual folks, these kind of add up 743 00:27:32,909 --> 00:27:35,230 in cost. So just making sure that it's 744 00:27:35,230 --> 00:27:36,049 liquid tight, 745 00:27:36,825 --> 00:27:39,085 is, is important if it's a tincture, 746 00:27:39,865 --> 00:27:42,184 and RSO works really well in a small 747 00:27:42,184 --> 00:27:43,484 syringe with a cap, 748 00:27:43,944 --> 00:27:45,164 and then in a baggie 749 00:27:45,464 --> 00:27:46,984 to send that to the lab or a 750 00:27:46,984 --> 00:27:48,125 very small jar, 751 00:27:49,464 --> 00:27:50,365 for fly. 752 00:27:51,009 --> 00:27:52,710 I think your listeners are probably 753 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:55,890 educated enough to know that not every bud 754 00:27:55,890 --> 00:27:57,809 on a plant is gonna have the exact 755 00:27:57,809 --> 00:28:00,130 same amount of cannabinoids in it. It will 756 00:28:00,130 --> 00:28:02,369 vary depending upon the top of the plant, 757 00:28:02,369 --> 00:28:04,450 the bottom of the plant. Was it more 758 00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:06,924 internal near the stem? Was it more external 759 00:28:06,924 --> 00:28:08,065 in getting more light? 760 00:28:08,845 --> 00:28:11,025 So there's gonna be a range of values. 761 00:28:11,805 --> 00:28:12,305 So 762 00:28:12,605 --> 00:28:14,365 if you have something that you grew your 763 00:28:14,365 --> 00:28:15,884 own and you have, you know, a couple 764 00:28:15,884 --> 00:28:17,105 of jars say, 765 00:28:17,725 --> 00:28:19,744 or maybe a bucket of dried flower, 766 00:28:20,045 --> 00:28:22,470 you want to the lab usually needs very, 767 00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:23,529 very small amount. 768 00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:26,390 So like one gram of RSO, like one 769 00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:27,930 small syringe would be plenty. 770 00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:30,710 And generally, you know, you, you should ask 771 00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:32,470 if you're sending in a sample, how much 772 00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:34,710 they need, but two grams of flour is 773 00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:35,210 plenty. 774 00:28:36,164 --> 00:28:37,625 The lab will probably use 775 00:28:38,005 --> 00:28:40,505 one, one to one hundredth of that amount 776 00:28:40,644 --> 00:28:42,884 to take the sample. So if you have 777 00:28:42,884 --> 00:28:44,484 a number of buds and you really want 778 00:28:44,484 --> 00:28:46,884 an average amount, I would take a very 779 00:28:46,884 --> 00:28:49,625 small amount off of multiple buds 780 00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:51,319 and grind it together 781 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:53,400 before you send it into the lab. 782 00:28:54,420 --> 00:28:56,420 And that way you'll be getting a nice 783 00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:57,799 average number versus 784 00:28:58,420 --> 00:29:00,740 any one bud could be particularly high or 785 00:29:00,740 --> 00:29:02,595 low. Do I really wanna grind it at 786 00:29:02,595 --> 00:29:03,875 at home, though, if I know that you're 787 00:29:03,875 --> 00:29:05,634 gonna grind it there when you take your 788 00:29:05,634 --> 00:29:07,394 sample? Because I'm thinking that if I grind 789 00:29:07,394 --> 00:29:09,255 it at home, I'm I'm, 790 00:29:10,355 --> 00:29:10,855 I'm 791 00:29:11,714 --> 00:29:12,214 volatilizing 792 00:29:12,994 --> 00:29:14,454 terpenoids and cannabinoids. 793 00:29:15,154 --> 00:29:17,059 Yeah. That's true. If you are screening for 794 00:29:17,059 --> 00:29:18,820 terpenoids, and we didn't really talk about that, 795 00:29:18,820 --> 00:29:20,680 and we can get to that maybe later. 796 00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:22,580 If you are wanting to test for the 797 00:29:22,580 --> 00:29:23,480 terpene molecules, 798 00:29:24,019 --> 00:29:25,940 you probably don't wanna grind before you send 799 00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:28,019 it to the lab. But grinding is not 800 00:29:28,019 --> 00:29:30,500 going to affect the cannabinoid profile if that's 801 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,234 all you're looking for. Mhmm. Yeah. Alright. 802 00:29:33,694 --> 00:29:34,095 So, 803 00:29:34,654 --> 00:29:37,375 while we're talking about, putting the, 804 00:29:38,174 --> 00:29:39,454 the RSO in, 805 00:29:39,855 --> 00:29:42,674 syringes and putting it in its own ziplock, 806 00:29:43,534 --> 00:29:45,694 we should probably take a minute and and 807 00:29:45,694 --> 00:29:47,190 and for the for the good of all 808 00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:48,329 the labs everywhere 809 00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:51,929 and and say really avoid using, 810 00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:55,769 bubble envelopes whenever you can. Like like, realistically, 811 00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:59,109 using the smallest size box that you can 812 00:29:59,109 --> 00:30:01,049 find, even the USPS 813 00:30:01,349 --> 00:30:02,809 priority size boxes 814 00:30:03,205 --> 00:30:04,884 to put your stuff in there. It's just 815 00:30:04,884 --> 00:30:07,045 going to get it to the lab more 816 00:30:07,045 --> 00:30:07,545 safely. 817 00:30:08,404 --> 00:30:10,904 I have certainly mailed things to labs, 818 00:30:11,525 --> 00:30:13,285 you know, soil labs too all over the 819 00:30:13,285 --> 00:30:15,605 place where where you just take the sample 820 00:30:15,605 --> 00:30:17,705 whatever it is and then you put cardboard 821 00:30:17,765 --> 00:30:18,299 on either side 822 00:30:19,259 --> 00:30:21,200 of it, and then you put it into 823 00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:22,940 a bubble envelope and off it goes. But 824 00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:24,539 but, you know, just think about how much 825 00:30:24,539 --> 00:30:26,619 money you're paying for this test, that you 826 00:30:26,619 --> 00:30:29,259 really don't want this particular test to to 827 00:30:29,259 --> 00:30:31,259 fall open in the mail, and you don't 828 00:30:31,259 --> 00:30:33,840 want it to arrive at the lab, 829 00:30:34,265 --> 00:30:36,345 you know, messy in any way. You want 830 00:30:36,345 --> 00:30:38,424 your full sample to be there. So so, 831 00:30:38,424 --> 00:30:40,265 you know, yes, it'll cost you a couple 832 00:30:40,265 --> 00:30:43,225 extra bucks probably to send the box versus 833 00:30:43,225 --> 00:30:44,365 the bubble envelope. 834 00:30:44,825 --> 00:30:46,745 But and you might get away with the 835 00:30:46,745 --> 00:30:49,545 bubble envelope, but there's no question that sending 836 00:30:49,545 --> 00:30:50,839 it in a bubble 837 00:30:51,460 --> 00:30:51,779 envelope, 838 00:30:52,259 --> 00:30:54,660 is going to increase your risks across the 839 00:30:54,660 --> 00:30:55,160 board. 840 00:30:56,099 --> 00:30:59,140 Yeah. Absolutely. We've definitely gotten leaky containers in 841 00:30:59,140 --> 00:31:00,900 the past. We don't get most of our 842 00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:02,660 samples don't come in the mail, but we 843 00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:03,160 do, 844 00:31:03,835 --> 00:31:06,154 have hemp and CBD companies that are able 845 00:31:06,154 --> 00:31:07,995 to mail us samples, and we've definitely gotten 846 00:31:07,995 --> 00:31:08,495 leaky 847 00:31:08,875 --> 00:31:09,375 CBD 848 00:31:09,755 --> 00:31:12,394 extracts that smell very much like weed because 849 00:31:12,394 --> 00:31:13,134 they are. 850 00:31:15,434 --> 00:31:17,515 So so is there anything special that we 851 00:31:17,515 --> 00:31:19,215 should do to store those samples, 852 00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:22,690 before shipping? Let's say that we're gonna take 853 00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:24,769 our samples today, but we're not gonna ship 854 00:31:24,769 --> 00:31:25,509 them tomorrow. 855 00:31:26,210 --> 00:31:27,970 I just tell people just toss them in 856 00:31:27,970 --> 00:31:29,670 the fridge, and and that's good enough. 857 00:31:30,289 --> 00:31:32,369 Yeah. That's fine. I mean, the cannabinoids aren't 858 00:31:32,369 --> 00:31:34,994 gonna degrade until it's very, very hot. Right? 859 00:31:34,994 --> 00:31:36,674 More hotter than it's gonna get in a 860 00:31:36,674 --> 00:31:39,075 in a hot mail truck in Arizona even. 861 00:31:39,075 --> 00:31:39,575 Mhmm. 862 00:31:40,514 --> 00:31:42,115 So, you know, there there's a small amount 863 00:31:42,115 --> 00:31:43,875 of degradation that might go on, but the 864 00:31:43,875 --> 00:31:46,534 variability in testing is gonna be larger than 865 00:31:46,754 --> 00:31:48,660 any of that sort of, like, room temperature 866 00:31:49,539 --> 00:31:52,580 degradation. Alright. So before we go to our 867 00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:53,940 first break, when we come back from our 868 00:31:53,940 --> 00:31:56,580 break, we're gonna be talking about, cannabinoid testing 869 00:31:56,580 --> 00:31:58,580 and and and terpene testing and get a 870 00:31:58,580 --> 00:32:00,519 little more into the tests themselves. 871 00:32:01,394 --> 00:32:03,715 But, I wanna, just kinda throw this this 872 00:32:03,715 --> 00:32:06,695 general question to you. Is there anything about 873 00:32:06,755 --> 00:32:09,795 interacting with the lab that I haven't covered 874 00:32:09,795 --> 00:32:12,855 yet that you as a lab director goes, 875 00:32:13,154 --> 00:32:15,715 oh, here's a great thing I wish all 876 00:32:15,715 --> 00:32:17,789 of my patients knew, badang. 877 00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:23,549 I guess I would say, like, it's it's 878 00:32:23,609 --> 00:32:25,450 it's okay to call the lab once you 879 00:32:25,450 --> 00:32:26,509 get results and 880 00:32:26,809 --> 00:32:28,430 if you don't really understand, 881 00:32:29,865 --> 00:32:31,065 but they're not going to be able to 882 00:32:31,065 --> 00:32:34,125 give you any medical related advice on optimizing 883 00:32:34,265 --> 00:32:37,164 your preparation or grow your grow practices, or, 884 00:32:37,224 --> 00:32:39,224 you know, getting a higher number next time 885 00:32:39,224 --> 00:32:41,460 in your formulation. Like that's not their job. 886 00:32:42,019 --> 00:32:43,940 Their job is to give you the number 887 00:32:43,940 --> 00:32:45,460 that is in the product that you sent 888 00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:47,619 in. And once they do that, if they're 889 00:32:47,619 --> 00:32:50,339 answering questions about the format of their results, 890 00:32:50,339 --> 00:32:52,179 that's about as much as you can expect 891 00:32:52,179 --> 00:32:52,919 from them. 892 00:32:53,299 --> 00:32:54,819 I think that is that that is a 893 00:32:54,819 --> 00:32:56,775 very worthwhile piece of advice. And and while 894 00:32:56,775 --> 00:32:59,174 I'll throw that in there, be nice to 895 00:32:59,174 --> 00:33:00,154 the lab folk, 896 00:33:00,535 --> 00:33:02,455 you know, because I I know that very 897 00:33:02,455 --> 00:33:04,695 often patients are a little on the edge 898 00:33:04,695 --> 00:33:06,475 because we're we can be a little nervous, 899 00:33:06,535 --> 00:33:08,535 like, calling these people. And and some people 900 00:33:08,535 --> 00:33:11,559 are are uncomfortable with with, like, asking questions 901 00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:13,480 about the test because they look pretty foreign 902 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,039 your first few times. But Yeah. Just remember 903 00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:17,500 that but in most cases, 904 00:33:18,039 --> 00:33:20,380 these are these are just other, like, really 905 00:33:20,679 --> 00:33:22,759 nice people who are just at work and 906 00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:25,434 trying to help you. And and and you 907 00:33:25,434 --> 00:33:26,414 might get frustrated, 908 00:33:26,954 --> 00:33:28,634 but but be don't take it out on 909 00:33:28,634 --> 00:33:30,394 the lab techs. They're just trying to do 910 00:33:30,394 --> 00:33:31,134 their best. 911 00:33:31,434 --> 00:33:33,595 Yeah. They're just chemists, that are there to 912 00:33:33,595 --> 00:33:35,214 do a specific job. And, 913 00:33:35,835 --> 00:33:37,850 you know, they can't they don't know what 914 00:33:37,850 --> 00:33:39,610 you're doing or how you're making it or 915 00:33:39,610 --> 00:33:41,610 how you're growing it. And that's not their 916 00:33:41,610 --> 00:33:43,850 job. I think sometimes people and the other 917 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:45,769 thing that I think is really miss common 918 00:33:45,769 --> 00:33:49,309 misconception about testing labs is everybody's seen CSI 919 00:33:49,450 --> 00:33:51,554 where they think we just throw the butt 920 00:33:51,554 --> 00:33:53,075 into the machine and we get a nice 921 00:33:53,075 --> 00:33:54,514 print out the other side. And that is 922 00:33:54,514 --> 00:33:56,434 not the case at all. There's a lot 923 00:33:56,434 --> 00:33:58,194 of chemistry that goes into it. There's a 924 00:33:58,194 --> 00:33:59,734 lot of extractions that happen. 925 00:34:00,115 --> 00:34:02,595 There's a lot of nuances to interpreting the 926 00:34:02,595 --> 00:34:04,914 results. There's a lot of retesting that goes 927 00:34:04,914 --> 00:34:06,930 on behind the scenes that people don't realize. 928 00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:07,970 And, 929 00:34:08,530 --> 00:34:10,369 it's not as easy as it looks. And 930 00:34:10,369 --> 00:34:12,710 so, you know, even if your one injection 931 00:34:12,769 --> 00:34:14,949 might only take fundamentally eight minutes, 932 00:34:15,329 --> 00:34:17,510 we have other clients, other injections, 933 00:34:17,809 --> 00:34:20,130 quality control injections that need to be included 934 00:34:20,130 --> 00:34:21,110 with every batch 935 00:34:21,425 --> 00:34:23,844 that it takes a little bit of time, 936 00:34:24,304 --> 00:34:26,945 to make sure that your one injection is 937 00:34:26,945 --> 00:34:27,605 is good. 938 00:34:28,864 --> 00:34:31,984 So it's not, I think sometimes people think 939 00:34:31,984 --> 00:34:33,264 we just sort of sit around and wait 940 00:34:33,264 --> 00:34:34,704 for the machines to do the work, and 941 00:34:34,704 --> 00:34:36,670 it's a lot more hands on than that. 942 00:34:36,670 --> 00:34:39,150 Everybody's just sitting around reading sci fi. You 943 00:34:39,150 --> 00:34:41,390 know? Yeah. Absolutely. I wish that was my 944 00:34:41,390 --> 00:34:41,890 job. 945 00:34:42,909 --> 00:34:44,829 Alright. So we're gonna take a short break 946 00:34:44,829 --> 00:34:46,670 and be right back. You are listening to 947 00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:49,090 Shaping Fire, and my guest today is chemist 948 00:34:49,150 --> 00:34:51,804 Amber Wise. And you know, without these advertisers, 949 00:34:51,944 --> 00:34:54,184 Shaping Fire would not happen. So please support 950 00:34:54,184 --> 00:34:55,784 them and let them know that you heard 951 00:34:55,784 --> 00:34:57,085 of them on Shaping 952 00:35:00,025 --> 00:35:03,224 Fire. The new finely screened living compost from 953 00:35:03,224 --> 00:35:05,960 Leighton Morrison at Kingdom Aquaponics is in a 954 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,139 product category all by itself. 955 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,339 Nearly all compost you can buy is thermophilic, 956 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,119 meaning that the compost pile has been heated 957 00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:16,059 in order to destroy all the pathogens. 958 00:35:16,934 --> 00:35:19,994 This composting process leaves you with only thermophilic 959 00:35:20,375 --> 00:35:22,555 organisms while killing everything else. 960 00:35:23,255 --> 00:35:26,535 Living compost from Kingdom Aquaponics is never heated 961 00:35:26,535 --> 00:35:27,815 above 115 962 00:35:27,815 --> 00:35:30,929 degrees, so it still thrives with the phosphate 963 00:35:30,929 --> 00:35:32,469 and potassium solubilizers, 964 00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:36,130 degraders, and decomposers along with the more advanced 965 00:35:36,130 --> 00:35:37,590 nutrient cycling organisms. 966 00:35:38,289 --> 00:35:40,769 But you might be thinking, Shango, if the 967 00:35:40,769 --> 00:35:43,090 compost is never heated, isn't it filled with 968 00:35:43,090 --> 00:35:44,949 pathogens that might hurt my garden? 969 00:35:45,945 --> 00:35:49,545 All of Layton's compost components are specifically chosen 970 00:35:49,545 --> 00:35:52,744 and pre processed to remove pathogens before the 971 00:35:52,744 --> 00:35:55,005 cool mesophilic composting process. 972 00:35:55,625 --> 00:35:58,184 The mushroom substrate he uses is sterilized in 973 00:35:58,184 --> 00:35:59,485 advance for growing mushrooms. 974 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,159 The wood fines are from shredded kiln dried 975 00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:04,980 lumber and that kiln heat removes any pathogens. 976 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,920 And the repurposed Coco Coir is sterilized with 977 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,300 heat in advance too. 978 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,400 These materials are then combined with a mix 979 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,765 of worm castings, fish poop, and special biological 980 00:36:16,065 --> 00:36:18,885 inoculants that Leighton incubates and blends himself. 981 00:36:19,585 --> 00:36:22,164 The resulting compost has biological stability, 982 00:36:22,785 --> 00:36:24,565 structure and water storage capacity, 983 00:36:25,025 --> 00:36:27,925 is packed with nutrient cycling protozoa and nematodes, 984 00:36:28,224 --> 00:36:31,340 and is fungal and bacteria rich including purple 985 00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:32,320 sulfur bacteria. 986 00:36:32,860 --> 00:36:35,119 He even provides the biological reports. 987 00:36:35,820 --> 00:36:38,880 This Ultra Premium Living Compost is for anyone 988 00:36:39,019 --> 00:36:41,740 who wants to make compost teas, extracts, or 989 00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:42,240 topdress. 990 00:36:42,795 --> 00:36:46,014 You're getting three ingredients in one. Worm castings, 991 00:36:46,155 --> 00:36:49,434 fish mulm, and biologically active compost all in 992 00:36:49,434 --> 00:36:50,175 one product. 993 00:36:50,795 --> 00:36:53,355 Get it right the first time. 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00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,880 water, you are adding fertilizer in a form 1009 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,679 that strengthens the soil food web in your 1010 00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:38,179 garden. 1011 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:42,000 Because plants are limited by the absence of 1012 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,460 any essential micronutrient, 1013 00:37:44,385 --> 00:37:47,184 these trace nutrients are the difference between having 1014 00:37:47,184 --> 00:37:49,585 a decent garden and having a garden that 1015 00:37:49,585 --> 00:37:51,765 makes you feel really proud of your efforts. 1016 00:37:52,704 --> 00:37:55,664 Fish poop is a naturally complete solution that 1017 00:37:55,664 --> 00:37:58,085 fills in the cracks in your fertilizer program 1018 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,519 to ensure that you offer your garden a 1019 00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:01,820 broad base of nutrients. 1020 00:38:02,839 --> 00:38:05,179 Not all fish poop is created equally. 1021 00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:08,359 Most products with added fish waste don't reveal 1022 00:38:08,359 --> 00:38:10,219 their sources or lab results. 1023 00:38:10,864 --> 00:38:12,964 Fish Poop brand Fish Poop, however, 1024 00:38:13,344 --> 00:38:16,005 generates their own fish waste as a byproduct 1025 00:38:16,065 --> 00:38:17,605 of their organic aquaponics 1026 00:38:17,905 --> 00:38:20,704 cannabis farm where they raise ornamental koi in 1027 00:38:20,704 --> 00:38:21,204 tilapia. 1028 00:38:22,144 --> 00:38:24,565 You are even invited to tour their farm 1029 00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:27,130 or on their YouTube channel to look for 1030 00:38:27,130 --> 00:38:27,630 yourself. 1031 00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:29,469 This sort of transparency 1032 00:38:29,769 --> 00:38:32,110 is wildly rare in the fertilizer market. 1033 00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:35,150 The folks behind Fish Poop are also lifelong 1034 00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:38,329 medical cannabis producers who have deep connections in 1035 00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:38,910 the community, 1036 00:38:39,289 --> 00:38:41,984 donate more product than they sell, and support 1037 00:38:41,984 --> 00:38:43,125 cannabis prisoners, 1038 00:38:43,505 --> 00:38:45,924 veteran, and patient collectives and charities. 1039 00:38:46,864 --> 00:38:49,284 To get your bottle of Pure Fish Poop, 1040 00:38:49,424 --> 00:38:51,444 go to fishpoop.com 1041 00:38:51,664 --> 00:38:54,464 or search for Fish Poop on Amazon or 1042 00:38:54,464 --> 00:38:55,764 walmart.com. 1043 00:38:55,969 --> 00:38:58,210 And to see their entire line of cannabis 1044 00:38:58,210 --> 00:38:58,710 products, 1045 00:38:59,010 --> 00:39:01,829 go to ounceofhope.com. 1046 00:39:02,289 --> 00:39:04,789 That's Fish Poop brand fish poop. 1047 00:39:08,385 --> 00:39:11,425 As consumers become more educated and regulations become 1048 00:39:11,425 --> 00:39:13,985 more demanding, it is increasingly important to avoid 1049 00:39:13,985 --> 00:39:16,804 the use of chemical pesticides when cultivating cannabis. 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Visit naturalenemies.com 1078 00:40:33,204 --> 00:40:34,664 and get detailed information. 1079 00:40:35,125 --> 00:40:37,284 You know getting away from pesticides is good 1080 00:40:37,284 --> 00:40:39,764 for health and good for business and Natural 1081 00:40:39,764 --> 00:40:43,445 Enemies is ready to help. Visit naturalenemies.com 1082 00:40:43,445 --> 00:40:43,945 today. 1083 00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:46,969 Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire. 1084 00:40:47,110 --> 00:40:49,269 I am your host, Shango Los. And my 1085 00:40:49,269 --> 00:40:51,769 guest today is chemist, Amber Wise. 1086 00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:54,070 So before the break, during the first set, 1087 00:40:54,070 --> 00:40:55,829 we talked a lot about getting to know 1088 00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:58,065 your lab and how to interact with the 1089 00:40:58,065 --> 00:41:00,324 lab to get the results that you want. 1090 00:41:00,784 --> 00:41:02,224 In this set, we're gonna talk a little 1091 00:41:02,224 --> 00:41:04,625 more about the specific testing, how to think 1092 00:41:04,625 --> 00:41:05,364 about it, 1093 00:41:05,664 --> 00:41:07,505 and and and what best to do with 1094 00:41:07,505 --> 00:41:11,039 it. So Amber, let's start with the gorilla 1095 00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:12,820 in the room, 30% 1096 00:41:13,039 --> 00:41:13,539 THC 1097 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:14,500 testing. 1098 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,239 You know, I am opinionated, but I'm willing 1099 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:19,140 to be wrong. 1100 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,619 I'm of the opinion that anything over 30%, 1101 00:41:24,695 --> 00:41:25,514 is artificially 1102 00:41:25,815 --> 00:41:28,795 inflated either by having too low of moisture 1103 00:41:29,255 --> 00:41:31,914 or treating the flower in advance 1104 00:41:32,614 --> 00:41:34,934 or or or probably other things that you 1105 00:41:34,934 --> 00:41:35,675 have seen. 1106 00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:39,110 And and I'm even suspicious of things at 1107 00:41:39,110 --> 00:41:42,150 30%. Like anything over 28, I'm starting to 1108 00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:44,570 get like, oh, man. I don't know. 1109 00:41:44,869 --> 00:41:47,750 Because because everything over 28, there's this huge 1110 00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:49,369 pressure for high percentages 1111 00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:52,150 because they do better at retail. Right? So 1112 00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:54,684 there's this there's this huge industry pressure 1113 00:41:54,985 --> 00:41:58,204 for having these these unrealistic numbers. And, also, 1114 00:41:58,425 --> 00:42:01,804 it's interesting how, you know, things went from 1115 00:42:02,105 --> 00:42:03,005 being consistently 1116 00:42:03,465 --> 00:42:06,190 18 to 24% 1117 00:42:06,250 --> 00:42:08,730 during medical, and then suddenly the license market 1118 00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:11,869 comes in, and these same flowers grown worse 1119 00:42:11,929 --> 00:42:12,670 in commodity 1120 00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:15,769 settings are suddenly testing higher. I am filled 1121 00:42:15,769 --> 00:42:16,670 with the skepticism. 1122 00:42:16,969 --> 00:42:18,650 But you're on the front line, so break 1123 00:42:18,650 --> 00:42:19,710 it down for us. 1124 00:42:20,594 --> 00:42:21,094 Yeah. 1125 00:42:21,715 --> 00:42:24,195 Well, it also depends a little bit obviously 1126 00:42:24,195 --> 00:42:26,135 on what how the sample is, 1127 00:42:26,675 --> 00:42:28,054 submitted to the lab. 1128 00:42:28,755 --> 00:42:30,514 But, yeah, there's definitely inflation. I mean, I 1129 00:42:30,514 --> 00:42:32,355 was in some stores in California where they 1130 00:42:32,355 --> 00:42:35,280 had 45% flower. Oh, come on. Here's where 1131 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,159 here's I just wanna break it down for 1132 00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:38,619 people just on a biological 1133 00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:41,420 level. We're talking about weight percent 1134 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,619 of a molecule of a couple individual molecules. 1135 00:42:45,125 --> 00:42:47,045 And when you think about where that molecule 1136 00:42:47,045 --> 00:42:49,605 is made in the flower, it's made inside 1137 00:42:49,605 --> 00:42:50,424 those trichomes. 1138 00:42:50,804 --> 00:42:52,164 Those are, you know, there can be a 1139 00:42:52,164 --> 00:42:54,005 lot of trichomes on a cannabis flower. We've 1140 00:42:54,005 --> 00:42:55,784 all seen very sparkly trichome 1141 00:42:56,484 --> 00:42:58,264 heavy buds, and that's great. 1142 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,380 That's where the cannabinoids and terpenes are synthesized. 1143 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,119 But there's also stem. There's also plant leaf 1144 00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:07,280 structure. There's a ton of cellulose that, I 1145 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,440 mean, cellulose is the structure of the plant. 1146 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,940 And so when we're talking about 30% 1147 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,380 of a molecule, 1148 00:43:13,985 --> 00:43:15,505 you still have to have a lot of 1149 00:43:15,505 --> 00:43:17,925 percentage left over for just plant material. 1150 00:43:18,864 --> 00:43:21,284 These molecules are secondary metabolites, 1151 00:43:21,585 --> 00:43:22,085 THCA, 1152 00:43:22,945 --> 00:43:23,445 CBGA, 1153 00:43:23,905 --> 00:43:27,025 terpenoids. Those are secondary metabolites that are not 1154 00:43:27,025 --> 00:43:27,525 necessary 1155 00:43:27,969 --> 00:43:29,750 for plants to survive. 1156 00:43:30,530 --> 00:43:32,849 So we're not gonna be seeing things that 1157 00:43:32,849 --> 00:43:34,369 are above 30% 1158 00:43:34,369 --> 00:43:36,769 of an oily structure or the plant would 1159 00:43:36,769 --> 00:43:39,269 just not be able to support itself fundamentally. 1160 00:43:40,574 --> 00:43:42,255 You you can tell just by touching it, 1161 00:43:42,255 --> 00:43:43,695 by looking it, by holding it up. You're 1162 00:43:43,695 --> 00:43:46,655 like, is this is this flower that I'm 1163 00:43:46,655 --> 00:43:49,855 holding in front of me, 30 to 45% 1164 00:43:49,855 --> 00:43:51,715 of its weight is in THC? 1165 00:43:52,094 --> 00:43:55,074 That's it's it's absurd when positive that way. 1166 00:43:55,789 --> 00:43:57,250 So so generally, 1167 00:43:57,710 --> 00:44:01,469 flower that's grown naturally is somewhere between 1020% 1168 00:44:01,469 --> 00:44:01,969 THCA. 1169 00:44:02,829 --> 00:44:04,750 It can be higher, and I've absolutely seen 1170 00:44:04,750 --> 00:44:05,409 it higher, 1171 00:44:06,590 --> 00:44:09,494 in the lab. And we we don't do 1172 00:44:09,494 --> 00:44:12,714 any sort of THC, a cannabinoid inflation here 1173 00:44:12,855 --> 00:44:14,214 at our lab. We were kind of known 1174 00:44:14,214 --> 00:44:14,875 for that. 1175 00:44:15,734 --> 00:44:18,295 And in cases where we have seen really 1176 00:44:18,295 --> 00:44:20,855 high percentages of like total cannabinoids being over 1177 00:44:20,855 --> 00:44:23,094 30%, I've seen it. I've asked the lab 1178 00:44:23,094 --> 00:44:25,250 staff to retest it. In those cases, 1179 00:44:25,550 --> 00:44:27,409 that flower does not smell interesting. 1180 00:44:28,110 --> 00:44:30,530 It is bred for just straight THC 1181 00:44:31,230 --> 00:44:31,730 expression. 1182 00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:33,570 There's very few terpenoids. 1183 00:44:33,869 --> 00:44:36,349 It's I've used that flower and it's not 1184 00:44:36,349 --> 00:44:38,744 an interesting high at all to me. 1185 00:44:39,625 --> 00:44:41,785 And so just because, and, you know, you've, 1186 00:44:41,785 --> 00:44:43,305 you've covered this on your show in the 1187 00:44:43,305 --> 00:44:46,184 past, high percentage of THC or THC a 1188 00:44:46,184 --> 00:44:48,744 is not necessarily the only signal of a 1189 00:44:48,744 --> 00:44:51,385 quality flower. The other anecdote I will give 1190 00:44:51,385 --> 00:44:52,860 is I used to work 1191 00:44:53,579 --> 00:44:54,800 at a company that had a grow facility, 1192 00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:57,180 and they're, you know, they're always kinda playing 1193 00:44:57,180 --> 00:44:59,500 around with different strains and genetics. And there 1194 00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:01,739 was one plant that we could never get 1195 00:45:01,739 --> 00:45:04,079 to test above 12 or 13% 1196 00:45:04,220 --> 00:45:04,720 THC. 1197 00:45:05,534 --> 00:45:07,454 And know the stores wouldn't buy it if 1198 00:45:07,454 --> 00:45:08,914 it was, you know, that number. 1199 00:45:09,295 --> 00:45:11,214 And every time we would harvest from that 1200 00:45:11,214 --> 00:45:12,734 one or two plants, and we'd have a 1201 00:45:12,734 --> 00:45:14,815 few for the staff, the staff would like 1202 00:45:14,815 --> 00:45:17,295 fight over this strain because it was the 1203 00:45:17,295 --> 00:45:20,219 best everybody's favorite. It tasted great. The high 1204 00:45:20,219 --> 00:45:21,199 was amazing. 1205 00:45:21,739 --> 00:45:23,659 So, you know, I just want people to 1206 00:45:23,659 --> 00:45:26,139 be realistic that higher numbers in flower is 1207 00:45:26,139 --> 00:45:28,639 absolutely not a better marker of quality 1208 00:45:29,099 --> 00:45:31,340 or the effects that you're going to achieve 1209 00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:33,164 from it. Well said, 1210 00:45:33,625 --> 00:45:34,125 Bravo. 1211 00:45:35,784 --> 00:45:36,905 So I could, I could talk a lot 1212 00:45:36,905 --> 00:45:38,744 more about that, but I'll, I'll leave that 1213 00:45:38,744 --> 00:45:39,224 there. 1214 00:45:39,625 --> 00:45:40,764 So for your, 1215 00:45:41,065 --> 00:45:43,625 you know, home grower in your garden, you're 1216 00:45:43,625 --> 00:45:46,664 probably not, you know, fully optimizing every aspect 1217 00:45:46,664 --> 00:45:47,609 of it and that's 1218 00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:48,630 okay. 1219 00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:52,230 So getting, that's why taking small bits off 1220 00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:54,070 of a number of different buds will help 1221 00:45:54,070 --> 00:45:55,690 get you that average value 1222 00:45:56,389 --> 00:45:57,609 for any individual 1223 00:45:57,989 --> 00:45:59,829 part of the plant or, or an average 1224 00:45:59,829 --> 00:46:01,589 value for, you know, overall, if you're going 1225 00:46:01,589 --> 00:46:03,744 to extract those, but those flower buds. 1226 00:46:05,005 --> 00:46:07,085 And yeah, just most you're, you're probably not 1227 00:46:07,085 --> 00:46:08,684 going to get the numbers that you see 1228 00:46:08,684 --> 00:46:10,364 at a retail store. It's, it's kind of 1229 00:46:10,364 --> 00:46:12,545 like the difference between growing your own vegetables 1230 00:46:12,765 --> 00:46:15,485 and buying vegetables in a store. Right. You 1231 00:46:15,485 --> 00:46:18,199 can grow more interesting things, but you know, 1232 00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:21,019 your tomatoes aren't always bigger or, you know, 1233 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,639 your celery is always something I think about. 1234 00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:25,639 Like I've grown celery a few times and 1235 00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:27,960 it's always like small and kind of stringy, 1236 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,039 but the flavor's really good. And it's, it 1237 00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:31,880 doesn't look anything like the celery at the 1238 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,500 store, which is bred for 1239 00:46:33,945 --> 00:46:36,825 shipping and, you know, shelf storage and, and 1240 00:46:36,825 --> 00:46:38,585 all of that. And that's a lot of 1241 00:46:38,585 --> 00:46:41,164 what, what flour has grown for retail purposes 1242 00:46:41,224 --> 00:46:43,864 is bread for what we call bag appeals. 1243 00:46:43,864 --> 00:46:45,565 So it looks good and sparkly. 1244 00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:48,519 And it has, like, large bud structure. But 1245 00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:50,840 that doesn't necessarily mean that it has interesting 1246 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:51,900 molecular profiles. 1247 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,440 I I I see the off ramp to 1248 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,320 the indoor versus outdoor debate right here, which 1249 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,260 we're we're gonna drive right past. 1250 00:46:59,559 --> 00:47:02,054 But but, you know, there this is a 1251 00:47:02,054 --> 00:47:04,295 really good point that that all of these 1252 00:47:04,295 --> 00:47:05,275 different preferences, 1253 00:47:06,215 --> 00:47:08,775 a patient might have versus, like, you know, 1254 00:47:08,775 --> 00:47:10,695 doing a little tent in their house or 1255 00:47:10,695 --> 00:47:12,695 doing something little out in their yard or 1256 00:47:12,695 --> 00:47:14,554 doing something big in their yard 1257 00:47:14,969 --> 00:47:16,730 or, you know, if if they wanna grow 1258 00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:18,650 in containers or they're gonna grow in the 1259 00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:21,210 ground or they're gonna use artificial lights or 1260 00:47:21,210 --> 00:47:23,369 they're gonna use artificial ferts and, you know, 1261 00:47:23,369 --> 00:47:25,050 grow with salt or they're gonna do living 1262 00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:25,550 soil. 1263 00:47:25,849 --> 00:47:28,590 All of these different types of, 1264 00:47:29,369 --> 00:47:29,869 growing 1265 00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:33,474 will all result in a different plant that 1266 00:47:33,474 --> 00:47:35,735 all shows up on your bench. 1267 00:47:36,275 --> 00:47:38,195 And and then and then you get to 1268 00:47:38,195 --> 00:47:39,954 see where where, you know, the proof that's 1269 00:47:39,954 --> 00:47:40,695 in the pudding. 1270 00:47:41,394 --> 00:47:41,894 Right. 1271 00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:44,300 Yeah. And I will say I mean, I 1272 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:45,739 think you've covered this in the past, but 1273 00:47:45,739 --> 00:47:48,640 just really briefly, indoor versus outdoor. There are 1274 00:47:49,019 --> 00:47:50,159 more molecules 1275 00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:53,019 present in outdoor growth even if it's not 1276 00:47:53,019 --> 00:47:53,920 more THCA. 1277 00:47:54,619 --> 00:47:56,940 There are more terpene profiles. There are more 1278 00:47:56,940 --> 00:47:57,840 minor cannabinoids. 1279 00:47:58,315 --> 00:48:00,954 There are just more molecules in general. And 1280 00:48:00,954 --> 00:48:02,894 if that's your thing, great. 1281 00:48:03,675 --> 00:48:06,715 But indoor is more consistent and easier to 1282 00:48:06,715 --> 00:48:08,554 kind of reproduce things over and over. So 1283 00:48:08,554 --> 00:48:10,394 there's pros and cons to both. And you 1284 00:48:10,394 --> 00:48:12,394 were talking about bag appeal. Like, you know, 1285 00:48:12,394 --> 00:48:14,030 unless people are trained 1286 00:48:14,489 --> 00:48:16,429 to identify outdoor, 1287 00:48:16,730 --> 00:48:18,969 most people look at the indoor and go, 1288 00:48:18,969 --> 00:48:20,110 wow. Because 1289 00:48:20,489 --> 00:48:23,130 they have been grown in a, you know, 1290 00:48:23,130 --> 00:48:24,670 a very controlled environment. 1291 00:48:25,210 --> 00:48:28,425 Outdoor often often looks less sexy 1292 00:48:29,625 --> 00:48:31,324 to, you know, the kind of center centerfold 1293 00:48:31,625 --> 00:48:32,925 high times kind of mentality. 1294 00:48:33,385 --> 00:48:35,324 But those who know outdoor 1295 00:48:35,704 --> 00:48:38,105 can see it and go, oh my gosh. 1296 00:48:38,105 --> 00:48:40,184 There's something special there. And then you realize 1297 00:48:40,184 --> 00:48:42,960 that, you know, outdoor has got wider terpene 1298 00:48:43,019 --> 00:48:43,519 profiles 1299 00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:45,760 and has got wider cannabinoid 1300 00:48:46,059 --> 00:48:48,320 profiles. And but also, you know, 1301 00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:51,500 we're not trying to shame anybody who's doing 1302 00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:52,720 it indoors because, 1303 00:48:54,494 --> 00:48:56,734 we're all patients just trying to grow our 1304 00:48:56,734 --> 00:48:59,315 medicine. Right? And I know where I live, 1305 00:49:00,014 --> 00:49:01,315 in the Pacific Northwest, 1306 00:49:01,855 --> 00:49:05,054 it's very challenging to finish any genetics that 1307 00:49:05,054 --> 00:49:07,390 I want to here. And so I I 1308 00:49:07,390 --> 00:49:08,610 have to do outdoor, 1309 00:49:09,630 --> 00:49:11,550 to make lots of medicine, and then I 1310 00:49:11,550 --> 00:49:13,070 have to do a little indoor tent so 1311 00:49:13,070 --> 00:49:14,769 I have something really cool to smoke. 1312 00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:18,750 Yeah. And not everybody has an outdoor space 1313 00:49:18,750 --> 00:49:20,369 either. So Yeah. Totally. 1314 00:49:20,795 --> 00:49:22,635 So okay. So so now that we've hit 1315 00:49:22,635 --> 00:49:25,695 on the 30 testing, let's talk about, another, 1316 00:49:26,235 --> 00:49:26,735 common, 1317 00:49:28,235 --> 00:49:28,735 unrealistic 1318 00:49:29,035 --> 00:49:31,515 expectation. It's usually just because patients haven't thought 1319 00:49:31,515 --> 00:49:32,255 about it. 1320 00:49:32,875 --> 00:49:35,535 Patients will test their raw flower 1321 00:49:36,989 --> 00:49:40,130 expecting that medicine they see in the test 1322 00:49:40,590 --> 00:49:42,449 to then enter their body 1323 00:49:42,989 --> 00:49:45,809 when they use it either in an edible 1324 00:49:46,030 --> 00:49:46,530 or, 1325 00:49:46,989 --> 00:49:48,989 or when they smoke it. And and and 1326 00:49:48,989 --> 00:49:50,369 most people don't understand 1327 00:49:50,909 --> 00:49:51,730 how much 1328 00:49:52,695 --> 00:49:53,434 of the, 1329 00:49:54,454 --> 00:49:54,954 aroma 1330 00:49:55,414 --> 00:49:56,315 is volatilized 1331 00:49:56,855 --> 00:49:58,614 off and doesn't even get into your body 1332 00:49:58,614 --> 00:49:59,355 and how 1333 00:49:59,815 --> 00:50:01,595 common it is for cannabinoids 1334 00:50:01,974 --> 00:50:02,795 to change 1335 00:50:04,535 --> 00:50:05,809 their chemical 1336 00:50:06,349 --> 00:50:08,430 makeup when they when when when you add 1337 00:50:08,430 --> 00:50:10,590 heat. Now now, of course, we know that 1338 00:50:10,590 --> 00:50:13,570 THCA becomes THC, which is the 1339 00:50:14,269 --> 00:50:14,769 decarboxylation 1340 00:50:15,469 --> 00:50:15,969 process 1341 00:50:16,430 --> 00:50:18,910 that we have to do with with edibles. 1342 00:50:18,910 --> 00:50:22,275 Right? But but this change from an acid 1343 00:50:22,275 --> 00:50:24,934 form to a non acid form, it actually 1344 00:50:25,234 --> 00:50:27,655 impacts lots of different cannabinoids. 1345 00:50:28,114 --> 00:50:30,434 And so we can't assume that what we 1346 00:50:30,434 --> 00:50:32,195 are smoking is the same thing as in 1347 00:50:32,195 --> 00:50:33,734 the raw flower test. Right? 1348 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:34,980 Oh, absolutely. 1349 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,460 And that's one of 1350 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,500 the scientific 1351 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,300 areas that is very underexplored 1352 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,239 is, like, what are we actually inhaling? We 1353 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,820 are obviously inhaling THC and CBD 1354 00:50:47,315 --> 00:50:49,974 and some terpenoid compounds, but we're also inhaling 1355 00:50:50,114 --> 00:50:52,614 all kinds of other molecules that have 1356 00:50:52,914 --> 00:50:55,175 converted from these ones that we know about 1357 00:50:55,394 --> 00:50:56,135 have been 1358 00:50:56,515 --> 00:50:59,414 created in that aerosol. I mean, aerosol chemistry 1359 00:50:59,635 --> 00:51:00,934 is very complicated. 1360 00:51:01,315 --> 00:51:04,429 When you add heat to aerosol chemistry, there's 1361 00:51:04,429 --> 00:51:04,929 oxygen. 1362 00:51:05,309 --> 00:51:07,469 Anytime there's a heat and oxygen, all kinds 1363 00:51:07,469 --> 00:51:09,010 of crazy chemistry happens. 1364 00:51:09,469 --> 00:51:11,889 So it's not necessarily bad. It's not necessarily 1365 00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:12,530 good. 1366 00:51:13,630 --> 00:51:16,130 But it's different than what is reflected 1367 00:51:16,429 --> 00:51:17,569 on the report. 1368 00:51:18,775 --> 00:51:20,215 The other thing to keep in mind is 1369 00:51:20,215 --> 00:51:22,775 we're only reporting out a very small number 1370 00:51:22,775 --> 00:51:23,434 of molecules 1371 00:51:23,735 --> 00:51:24,635 in that report. 1372 00:51:25,094 --> 00:51:27,515 So there's a lot of other molecules present 1373 00:51:28,054 --> 00:51:29,034 that aren't listed. 1374 00:51:29,655 --> 00:51:31,655 That's easy to forget about because they're not 1375 00:51:31,655 --> 00:51:32,155 listed. 1376 00:51:34,139 --> 00:51:36,139 So yeah, it's a lot more complicated than 1377 00:51:36,139 --> 00:51:37,280 people think it is. 1378 00:51:37,579 --> 00:51:40,859 And certainly if there's say 20% 1379 00:51:40,859 --> 00:51:43,599 THC a in, in a flower, you're definitely 1380 00:51:43,659 --> 00:51:46,525 not inhaling all of those THC molecules. It's 1381 00:51:46,525 --> 00:51:48,385 not a 100% conversion to THC. 1382 00:51:48,925 --> 00:51:50,625 It's not a 100% inhalation. 1383 00:51:52,764 --> 00:51:53,264 So 1384 00:51:53,565 --> 00:51:56,125 the math there is not, one to one 1385 00:51:56,125 --> 00:51:57,105 by any means. 1386 00:51:57,644 --> 00:51:59,260 Totally. And and some of the some of 1387 00:51:59,260 --> 00:52:01,260 the novel cannabinoids that we see, like, we 1388 00:52:01,260 --> 00:52:03,440 don't even normally hear of. Like like, CBD 1389 00:52:04,059 --> 00:52:05,760 can downgrade to CBE 1390 00:52:06,380 --> 00:52:08,539 or also WHO three thirty one, like, h 1391 00:52:08,539 --> 00:52:10,605 u three thirty one. Like, we don't even 1392 00:52:10,605 --> 00:52:12,925 we don't even those these these cannabinoids are 1393 00:52:12,925 --> 00:52:14,545 not even in our conversation 1394 00:52:15,164 --> 00:52:16,465 right now. And so, 1395 00:52:17,324 --> 00:52:19,484 thinking that you're going to smoke your raw 1396 00:52:19,484 --> 00:52:21,085 flower and get the same thing, it it 1397 00:52:21,085 --> 00:52:23,744 actually involves a whole bunch of additional research 1398 00:52:23,965 --> 00:52:24,625 as well. 1399 00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:27,289 Yeah. And this is the science behind, 1400 00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:30,789 why people why a lot of medical patients 1401 00:52:30,789 --> 00:52:33,369 prefer inhalation and smoking to 1402 00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:36,309 oral oral medicine. And there are obviously like, 1403 00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:38,230 there's tons of people who prefer oral medicine, 1404 00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:40,335 and there's reasons for that. And that can 1405 00:52:40,335 --> 00:52:42,994 be because the molecules you're taking in orally 1406 00:52:43,215 --> 00:52:45,394 work better for your condition. Those are also 1407 00:52:45,614 --> 00:52:47,554 different molecules than what you're inhaling. 1408 00:52:48,175 --> 00:52:50,994 So, you know, finding the right molecular mixture 1409 00:52:51,215 --> 00:52:53,295 is really important if you're looking for a 1410 00:52:53,295 --> 00:52:54,355 specific outcome. 1411 00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:57,429 And there are a lot of people that 1412 00:52:57,429 --> 00:52:59,929 have that, you know, inhale, smoke 1413 00:53:00,309 --> 00:53:03,349 for medical reasons, and they try other platforms, 1414 00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:04,789 and they don't seem to work for them, 1415 00:53:04,789 --> 00:53:06,170 and they go back to inhalation 1416 00:53:06,914 --> 00:53:08,994 because of this I'm gonna call it a 1417 00:53:08,994 --> 00:53:11,315 magical mix. It's not magic. It's science, but 1418 00:53:11,315 --> 00:53:13,235 we don't know all the words and all 1419 00:53:13,235 --> 00:53:14,695 the identities of these molecules. 1420 00:53:15,474 --> 00:53:18,035 You are so accurate. And what's interesting is, 1421 00:53:18,035 --> 00:53:19,635 you know, one of the great things about 1422 00:53:19,635 --> 00:53:22,440 cannabis and how we as patients handle it 1423 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,300 is we are talking about individualized 1424 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,360 medicine. Right? Yes. Where most pharmaceuticals are all 1425 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,800 like, okay, we are going to make the 1426 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,280 same medicine and then all you different humans 1427 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:33,980 all need to take it the same way. 1428 00:53:34,385 --> 00:53:34,885 Cannabis 1429 00:53:35,344 --> 00:53:37,585 opens itself up and makes itself available in 1430 00:53:37,585 --> 00:53:40,385 all these different ways. And to to provide 1431 00:53:40,385 --> 00:53:41,204 the opposite, 1432 00:53:42,065 --> 00:53:42,565 idea, 1433 00:53:43,425 --> 00:53:45,505 so many patients that I've talked to, 1434 00:53:45,905 --> 00:53:47,480 while they might use, 1435 00:53:48,260 --> 00:53:50,360 inhaled cannabis for personal enjoyment, 1436 00:53:51,059 --> 00:53:53,559 for them to make sure that they hit 1437 00:53:53,619 --> 00:53:55,960 accurately their blend of THC, 1438 00:53:56,260 --> 00:53:57,559 CBD, and CBG 1439 00:53:57,860 --> 00:53:59,875 in their r, you know, that they're gonna 1440 00:53:59,875 --> 00:54:01,414 put in their body for pain 1441 00:54:01,714 --> 00:54:03,014 to make it through their workday. 1442 00:54:03,315 --> 00:54:05,174 They need that stuff to be specific 1443 00:54:05,634 --> 00:54:08,134 and a little slower dosed. And so, 1444 00:54:09,315 --> 00:54:11,734 smoking, which is has immediate onset, 1445 00:54:12,339 --> 00:54:13,940 is not really the right tool for the 1446 00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:16,900 job. And so people are making very you 1447 00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:19,559 know, they're they're blending their RSO like Vintner's 1448 00:54:20,260 --> 00:54:23,699 blend or expensive, you know, table wine. Yeah. 1449 00:54:23,699 --> 00:54:25,619 And and so they are making the thing 1450 00:54:25,619 --> 00:54:27,559 that works for them, 1451 00:54:28,045 --> 00:54:29,724 and then they're taking it in a capsule. 1452 00:54:29,724 --> 00:54:31,485 And it's just a beautiful way that whether 1453 00:54:31,485 --> 00:54:33,324 or not you're smoking it or or taking 1454 00:54:33,324 --> 00:54:35,164 in an edible or a capsule or however 1455 00:54:35,164 --> 00:54:36,144 you're using using it, 1456 00:54:36,844 --> 00:54:39,005 it's about using the way that it works 1457 00:54:39,005 --> 00:54:41,324 for you and be damned the other people's 1458 00:54:41,324 --> 00:54:44,340 opinion of what your mode is that is 1459 00:54:44,340 --> 00:54:44,840 preferred. 1460 00:54:45,539 --> 00:54:48,340 Exactly. I mean, you've had doctor Miyabi Shields 1461 00:54:48,340 --> 00:54:49,860 and doctor Riley Kirk on your show, I 1462 00:54:49,860 --> 00:54:51,720 think, and talking about the different, 1463 00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:55,860 neurotypes of people who use cannabis for different 1464 00:54:55,860 --> 00:54:56,360 endocannabinoid 1465 00:54:57,460 --> 00:54:57,960 adjustments. 1466 00:54:59,034 --> 00:55:00,954 And it is really important to find what 1467 00:55:00,954 --> 00:55:03,295 works for you in the right format. And, 1468 00:55:04,554 --> 00:55:07,355 you know, it again, cannabis isn't for everybody. 1469 00:55:07,355 --> 00:55:09,914 There isn't necessarily, like, the exact right thing 1470 00:55:09,914 --> 00:55:10,655 for everybody. 1471 00:55:11,969 --> 00:55:14,869 But if what you're trying now isn't working, 1472 00:55:14,929 --> 00:55:17,190 you might just wanna try a different format, 1473 00:55:18,449 --> 00:55:20,690 and and give that a shot because they're 1474 00:55:20,690 --> 00:55:23,010 definitely not all the same even though you 1475 00:55:23,010 --> 00:55:24,710 might only see a couple molecules 1476 00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:26,954 reflected on a label in the stores. 1477 00:55:27,835 --> 00:55:30,635 Indeed. Doctor. Miyabi Shields has been on the 1478 00:55:30,635 --> 00:55:32,494 program a few times. And actually, 1479 00:55:33,275 --> 00:55:34,094 the most 1480 00:55:34,394 --> 00:55:35,614 popular program, 1481 00:55:36,394 --> 00:55:38,555 episode that they were on was the one 1482 00:55:38,555 --> 00:55:39,210 where they 1483 00:55:40,089 --> 00:55:40,829 discussed the, 1484 00:55:41,690 --> 00:55:43,630 the the neuro biomechanics 1485 00:55:43,929 --> 00:55:45,710 that happen when you take psilocybin, 1486 00:55:46,329 --> 00:55:48,170 which is actually one of the most popular 1487 00:55:48,170 --> 00:55:50,730 shaping fire episodes that there's been. It's it's 1488 00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:52,489 a really it's a really good one. But 1489 00:55:52,489 --> 00:55:54,135 they also have been on to talk about 1490 00:55:54,135 --> 00:55:54,795 the endocannabinoid 1491 00:55:55,175 --> 00:55:55,675 system 1492 00:55:56,215 --> 00:55:57,175 and and when, 1493 00:55:57,735 --> 00:56:00,215 you know, relatively deep into the smokeability or 1494 00:56:00,215 --> 00:56:01,655 not the smokeability, but the, 1495 00:56:02,215 --> 00:56:04,855 the the cannabinoids that come through your smoke, 1496 00:56:04,855 --> 00:56:07,250 which is which is very interesting. Yeah. Miyabi's 1497 00:56:07,469 --> 00:56:08,210 top shelf. 1498 00:56:08,590 --> 00:56:10,530 Yeah. They're really great. Super smart. 1499 00:56:10,910 --> 00:56:12,269 So so let's talk about, 1500 00:56:12,750 --> 00:56:15,070 the testing that we might request in a 1501 00:56:15,070 --> 00:56:17,809 different way because, we have talked about the 1502 00:56:17,994 --> 00:56:19,994 the what what most people call a potency 1503 00:56:19,994 --> 00:56:21,994 testing but we're talking about it more as 1504 00:56:21,994 --> 00:56:22,474 in, 1505 00:56:22,795 --> 00:56:24,014 cannabinoid concentration, 1506 00:56:24,954 --> 00:56:25,454 ways. 1507 00:56:26,954 --> 00:56:29,135 But patients often want 1508 00:56:29,994 --> 00:56:31,135 more cannabinoids 1509 00:56:31,809 --> 00:56:33,489 tested for than the legal 1510 00:56:33,889 --> 00:56:35,109 the licensed market 1511 00:56:35,409 --> 00:56:38,369 requires. And so you you mentioned in passing 1512 00:56:38,369 --> 00:56:41,250 that, you know, patients might want cannabinoids that 1513 00:56:41,250 --> 00:56:42,150 aren't listed. 1514 00:56:42,449 --> 00:56:44,210 I wanna dig in that a little bit 1515 00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:46,545 because, you know I you know I probably 1516 00:56:47,164 --> 00:56:49,324 worked with probably six or seven labs now 1517 00:56:49,324 --> 00:56:51,984 over the whatever fifteen years ish and, 1518 00:56:55,005 --> 00:56:58,690 many of them will only give me options 1519 00:56:58,829 --> 00:57:00,369 of CBD, CBG, 1520 00:57:01,550 --> 00:57:02,050 THC, 1521 00:57:02,590 --> 00:57:03,090 and, 1522 00:57:03,710 --> 00:57:05,329 and and their acid forms 1523 00:57:05,710 --> 00:57:08,030 whereas others might ask me, oh, just pay 1524 00:57:08,030 --> 00:57:09,550 a little bit more and we'll do, like, 1525 00:57:09,550 --> 00:57:11,985 a full screen for you. Or, 1526 00:57:12,605 --> 00:57:13,105 and 1527 00:57:13,485 --> 00:57:15,244 and would you teach us a little bit 1528 00:57:15,244 --> 00:57:17,565 about that, a, so we kinda understand it, 1529 00:57:17,565 --> 00:57:20,125 but more importantly, so we know how to 1530 00:57:20,125 --> 00:57:21,184 ask for it? 1531 00:57:22,125 --> 00:57:25,380 Yeah. So the way that testing labs come 1532 00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:28,619 up with their results is we have to 1533 00:57:28,619 --> 00:57:31,980 buy those specific molecules in very, very pure 1534 00:57:31,980 --> 00:57:34,480 forms. So they have to be commercially available 1535 00:57:34,860 --> 00:57:37,679 in what we call certified reference material format. 1536 00:57:38,634 --> 00:57:39,614 And they're expensive. 1537 00:57:40,074 --> 00:57:40,574 And 1538 00:57:40,875 --> 00:57:43,194 because they're controlled substances, we can only buy 1539 00:57:43,194 --> 00:57:44,494 them in very small amounts. 1540 00:57:46,234 --> 00:57:46,734 So 1541 00:57:47,194 --> 00:57:49,434 we are only able to the way that 1542 00:57:49,434 --> 00:57:50,714 our machines are set up, and this is 1543 00:57:50,714 --> 00:57:52,574 the vast majority of testing labs, 1544 00:57:53,369 --> 00:57:55,849 you can only get the information out that 1545 00:57:55,849 --> 00:57:58,010 you tell the machine to look for. So 1546 00:57:58,010 --> 00:58:00,029 that's why we have set lists of molecules 1547 00:58:00,170 --> 00:58:01,549 because we buy those specific 1548 00:58:01,849 --> 00:58:04,010 cannabinoids and we inject them into the machine 1549 00:58:04,010 --> 00:58:05,529 and tell the machine what they look like. 1550 00:58:05,529 --> 00:58:07,369 And then we inject the unknown and the 1551 00:58:07,369 --> 00:58:09,585 machine compares the two signals and tells us 1552 00:58:09,585 --> 00:58:10,405 what it is. 1553 00:58:11,184 --> 00:58:13,744 I wish there was a way and and 1554 00:58:13,744 --> 00:58:16,465 chemists certainly have ways of identifying what other 1555 00:58:16,465 --> 00:58:18,005 molecules are present. Right? 1556 00:58:19,585 --> 00:58:21,344 I wish there was a way we could 1557 00:58:21,344 --> 00:58:23,105 screen and tell you all the molecules that 1558 00:58:23,105 --> 00:58:24,829 are there, but our machines are just not 1559 00:58:24,829 --> 00:58:25,730 set up for that. 1560 00:58:26,030 --> 00:58:27,949 And if they were set up for that, 1561 00:58:27,949 --> 00:58:28,849 it would be prohibitively 1562 00:58:29,150 --> 00:58:31,010 expensive for a home grower, 1563 00:58:32,110 --> 00:58:33,090 to do that chemistry. 1564 00:58:33,789 --> 00:58:35,869 There are labs and my lab is one 1565 00:58:35,869 --> 00:58:37,844 of them. We do have an expanded panel 1566 00:58:38,085 --> 00:58:40,885 where we have 17 total cannabinoids instead of 1567 00:58:40,885 --> 00:58:42,184 the usual 11. 1568 00:58:43,125 --> 00:58:45,525 And there's even more than 17 that some 1569 00:58:45,525 --> 00:58:48,005 labs might be able to offer. But again, 1570 00:58:48,005 --> 00:58:50,885 it's more expensive because it's just more molecules 1571 00:58:50,885 --> 00:58:52,949 that I have to buy and tell my 1572 00:58:52,949 --> 00:58:54,730 machine what they look like. 1573 00:58:55,590 --> 00:58:58,869 And you can't get all the possible, all 1574 00:58:58,869 --> 00:59:00,170 the possibilities because 1575 00:59:00,550 --> 00:59:03,429 they're not necessarily all commercially available to buy 1576 00:59:03,429 --> 00:59:04,489 in pure formats. 1577 00:59:05,164 --> 00:59:07,164 They're starting to be more and certainly with 1578 00:59:07,164 --> 00:59:10,364 people playing around with cannabinoid conversions and things, 1579 00:59:10,364 --> 00:59:11,885 there's there's more, 1580 00:59:12,764 --> 00:59:15,244 synthetic cannabinoids available than there were a few 1581 00:59:15,244 --> 00:59:16,945 years ago for testing labs. 1582 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:17,860 But, 1583 00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:19,460 they're quite expensive. 1584 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,900 And just because they're commercially available doesn't necessarily 1585 00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:25,920 mean that my test method will be good 1586 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,460 for that molecule either. 1587 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:29,300 And so, 1588 00:59:30,025 --> 00:59:31,545 you know, I'm trying to think of an 1589 00:59:31,545 --> 00:59:33,864 example, like we don't test for HHC, which 1590 00:59:33,864 --> 00:59:35,085 is hexa hydrocannabinol 1591 00:59:35,784 --> 00:59:37,644 something. It's a synthetic conversion, 1592 00:59:38,344 --> 00:59:41,005 but it's getting to be more common in 1593 00:59:41,065 --> 00:59:43,485 mostly states that don't have adult rec programs. 1594 00:59:44,210 --> 00:59:46,469 So that's a molecule that I can buy 1595 00:59:46,690 --> 00:59:48,949 as as a certified reference material, 1596 00:59:49,730 --> 00:59:52,069 but I don't know if it's going to 1597 00:59:52,369 --> 00:59:54,369 work in the cannabinoid method that I have 1598 00:59:54,369 --> 00:59:55,889 on my machine. I would have to do 1599 00:59:55,889 --> 00:59:57,670 a lot of behind the scenes science 1600 00:59:58,065 --> 00:59:59,744 to make sure that I would be able 1601 00:59:59,744 --> 01:00:01,585 to see that. So it's it's not even 1602 01:00:01,585 --> 01:00:03,505 just because it's available, I could offer it 1603 01:00:03,505 --> 01:00:04,565 to you next week. 1604 01:00:05,105 --> 01:00:06,545 It it might not work at all, and 1605 01:00:06,545 --> 01:00:08,565 I would have to do more specialized chemistry 1606 01:00:08,784 --> 01:00:11,559 to see that molecule depending upon how I'm 1607 01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:12,539 running my machines. 1608 01:00:13,239 --> 01:00:14,539 That makes sense. And, 1609 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,400 while while we're talking about your method, because 1610 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,839 hearing you explain the method actually really makes 1611 01:00:20,839 --> 01:00:22,839 the the lab make a lot more sense 1612 01:00:22,839 --> 01:00:24,859 as oddly obvious as that is. 1613 01:00:26,085 --> 01:00:27,065 Would you explain, 1614 01:00:28,724 --> 01:00:30,585 I'm gonna ask I'm gonna I'm gonna kinda 1615 01:00:31,125 --> 01:00:33,545 butt my way into this bass ackwards, but 1616 01:00:33,925 --> 01:00:35,545 would you explain why you can't 1617 01:00:35,844 --> 01:00:37,704 tell patients what's in their 1618 01:00:38,539 --> 01:00:40,619 RSO? And and what I'm asking is like 1619 01:00:40,619 --> 01:00:43,260 the reverse, right? Like like you can test 1620 01:00:43,260 --> 01:00:46,559 for things but when people say like like 1621 01:00:46,619 --> 01:00:48,320 I don't know what's in my 1622 01:00:48,860 --> 01:00:51,474 RSO that's taking up so much space and 1623 01:00:51,474 --> 01:00:52,934 repressing all my numbers. 1624 01:00:54,275 --> 01:00:55,795 And so patients will request that out of 1625 01:00:55,795 --> 01:00:57,074 the lab and the lab's all like, well, 1626 01:00:57,074 --> 01:00:58,675 what do you want me to test for? 1627 01:00:58,675 --> 01:01:00,195 So it's kind of like a it's kind 1628 01:01:00,195 --> 01:01:02,114 of like a, you know, egg and the 1629 01:01:02,114 --> 01:01:04,034 chicken or the cart and the horse. Would 1630 01:01:04,034 --> 01:01:05,789 you kinda explain that for folks because, 1631 01:01:06,430 --> 01:01:08,590 it it was really important when I started 1632 01:01:08,590 --> 01:01:10,050 mentoring people in RSO. 1633 01:01:11,230 --> 01:01:13,869 Yeah. So obviously, there's lots of molecules in 1634 01:01:13,869 --> 01:01:16,510 the plant. And when you're doing something like 1635 01:01:16,510 --> 01:01:17,730 an ethanol extraction, 1636 01:01:18,385 --> 01:01:20,704 ethanol is a really good solvent for all 1637 01:01:20,704 --> 01:01:22,625 kinds of plant molecules. So you're gonna be 1638 01:01:22,625 --> 01:01:24,305 pulling out a lot more than just the 1639 01:01:24,305 --> 01:01:24,805 cannabinoids. 1640 01:01:26,224 --> 01:01:28,785 And so if if your RSO tests at 1641 01:01:28,785 --> 01:01:30,805 60% and you wanna know what's 1642 01:01:31,184 --> 01:01:32,405 60% THC, 1643 01:01:33,279 --> 01:01:35,199 you wanna know what the other 40% is. 1644 01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:36,579 I can't tell you that. 1645 01:01:37,759 --> 01:01:40,339 As a scientist who understands plants, 1646 01:01:40,639 --> 01:01:42,480 I can tell you it's most likely fats 1647 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,480 and lipids and some chlorophyll based on the 1648 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,420 color. Right. Right. Right. 1649 01:01:46,864 --> 01:01:49,284 But I can't, and fats and lipids are 1650 01:01:49,824 --> 01:01:53,045 not one molecule. They are classes of molecules 1651 01:01:53,664 --> 01:01:56,804 that have many, many different versions. And so, 1652 01:01:57,905 --> 01:01:59,125 you know, there are 1653 01:02:00,050 --> 01:02:01,170 sometimes there are, 1654 01:02:02,369 --> 01:02:04,769 food labs that can test for, like, total 1655 01:02:04,769 --> 01:02:06,309 fats or total carbohydrates 1656 01:02:07,250 --> 01:02:09,570 in something. But again, you're not gonna get 1657 01:02:09,570 --> 01:02:11,969 the molecular identity. You're gonna you're gonna get 1658 01:02:11,969 --> 01:02:13,889 a number that's like, oh, this is 35% 1659 01:02:13,889 --> 01:02:14,385 lipids. 1660 01:02:14,864 --> 01:02:17,264 And lipids are a large group of molecules 1661 01:02:17,264 --> 01:02:19,664 that can can have hundreds of of different 1662 01:02:19,664 --> 01:02:20,164 versions. 1663 01:02:22,065 --> 01:02:22,864 And so, 1664 01:02:24,304 --> 01:02:26,465 in a I know this is fantasy, but 1665 01:02:26,465 --> 01:02:28,465 in if we were to talk about how 1666 01:02:28,465 --> 01:02:31,559 you could figure that out, you would need 1667 01:02:31,780 --> 01:02:33,960 a a a reference standard 1668 01:02:34,339 --> 01:02:36,839 for everything in the world that could potentially 1669 01:02:37,139 --> 01:02:39,460 be in that oil and then run all 1670 01:02:39,460 --> 01:02:40,039 of them 1671 01:02:40,420 --> 01:02:41,400 through your HPLC 1672 01:02:41,859 --> 01:02:44,019 to find out. And then you still actually 1673 01:02:44,019 --> 01:02:47,015 wouldn't know if there's nothing else in it. 1674 01:02:47,015 --> 01:02:48,155 You would just know 1675 01:02:48,614 --> 01:02:51,894 of the, you know, million standards you ran, 1676 01:02:51,894 --> 01:02:53,655 how much of those million things. But there 1677 01:02:53,655 --> 01:02:55,095 could be other things in it that you 1678 01:02:55,095 --> 01:02:57,494 didn't have a standard for. So it's it's 1679 01:02:57,494 --> 01:02:58,635 just an impossibility 1680 01:02:59,335 --> 01:03:01,114 to go at it from that direction. 1681 01:03:01,679 --> 01:03:04,159 Right. Yeah. And it's it's unfortunate, but it 1682 01:03:04,159 --> 01:03:06,480 is like, the labs are set up not 1683 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,039 to identify every molecule present. They're set up 1684 01:03:09,039 --> 01:03:10,960 to protect public health and safety and give 1685 01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,339 people an idea of 1686 01:03:12,639 --> 01:03:15,315 what their dosing might be. Yeah. And another 1687 01:03:15,315 --> 01:03:17,554 unfortunate example of that that the labs are 1688 01:03:17,554 --> 01:03:19,494 not Star Trek and are not CSI. 1689 01:03:20,434 --> 01:03:22,054 Right. Yeah. I wish. 1690 01:03:22,594 --> 01:03:24,835 And there are lots of interesting projects that 1691 01:03:24,835 --> 01:03:26,755 I've been presented with that I just don't 1692 01:03:26,755 --> 01:03:29,260 have the time or the expertise for, even 1693 01:03:29,260 --> 01:03:31,599 if our machine could do it. Sure. Sure. 1694 01:03:32,059 --> 01:03:33,579 While while we're talking about, 1695 01:03:34,460 --> 01:03:34,960 unscientific 1696 01:03:35,340 --> 01:03:35,840 hopes, 1697 01:03:36,780 --> 01:03:38,700 I I am sure that you have seen 1698 01:03:38,700 --> 01:03:40,239 a whole bunch of unscientific 1699 01:03:40,619 --> 01:03:41,760 hopes or expectations 1700 01:03:42,220 --> 01:03:43,599 around terpene testing 1701 01:03:44,264 --> 01:03:46,424 because people are so interested in it, and 1702 01:03:46,424 --> 01:03:48,984 there's so much new research about terpenes and 1703 01:03:48,984 --> 01:03:50,364 their medicinal qualities. 1704 01:03:50,824 --> 01:03:53,405 But also, terpenes are fleeting. Right? They're 1705 01:03:53,864 --> 01:03:55,085 they they are volatileizing 1706 01:03:55,625 --> 01:03:58,590 with with warmth and age and exposure to 1707 01:03:58,829 --> 01:03:59,329 sunshine 1708 01:03:59,950 --> 01:04:02,670 and and, you know, the person's car as 1709 01:04:02,670 --> 01:04:04,910 they're driving it to drop off to you 1710 01:04:04,910 --> 01:04:05,410 and, 1711 01:04:05,789 --> 01:04:08,450 you know, every everything. Right? And so, 1712 01:04:08,989 --> 01:04:10,130 let's let's inoculate, 1713 01:04:10,510 --> 01:04:12,364 like, some patients to some of this stuff. 1714 01:04:12,364 --> 01:04:14,545 What's, what's, an unscientific 1715 01:04:14,844 --> 01:04:16,625 hope that folks have about terpenes 1716 01:04:16,925 --> 01:04:18,945 that we can we can address in advance? 1717 01:04:20,364 --> 01:04:23,644 Well, if you're, you know, heating your flour 1718 01:04:23,644 --> 01:04:24,304 to decarboxylate 1719 01:04:24,684 --> 01:04:26,550 it before you do the extraction, most of 1720 01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:28,070 of your terpenes are gonna be gone just 1721 01:04:28,070 --> 01:04:28,809 full stop. 1722 01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:32,329 So if you're really interested in preserving 1723 01:04:32,949 --> 01:04:35,610 your natural terpene profile in an extract, 1724 01:04:36,070 --> 01:04:38,309 you might wanna decarb most of your flour 1725 01:04:38,309 --> 01:04:40,469 and leave some of it raw. So you 1726 01:04:40,469 --> 01:04:41,449 have those terpenes 1727 01:04:42,065 --> 01:04:43,925 like in that extract later. 1728 01:04:44,945 --> 01:04:47,105 You're you're also gonna get some THC a 1729 01:04:47,105 --> 01:04:50,085 and unconverted THC or CBD a, 1730 01:04:50,465 --> 01:04:52,305 but you will get more of those natural 1731 01:04:52,305 --> 01:04:53,845 terpenes coming through. 1732 01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,519 The other thing to keep in mind with 1733 01:04:58,519 --> 01:05:01,480 terpene profiling is not that it isn't helpful, 1734 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,559 but there's a lot of new research coming 1735 01:05:03,559 --> 01:05:04,059 out, 1736 01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,000 from the folks at Abstract Labs out of 1737 01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,344 California. And maybe you've had them on your 1738 01:05:09,344 --> 01:05:11,425 show. If not, you should get them on. 1739 01:05:11,425 --> 01:05:13,045 But they're showing that 1740 01:05:13,585 --> 01:05:16,545 even strains that smell very different from one 1741 01:05:16,545 --> 01:05:17,844 another, they can have 1742 01:05:18,144 --> 01:05:18,804 the same 1743 01:05:19,505 --> 01:05:23,105 top 10 terpene profile, almost identical terpene profile 1744 01:05:23,105 --> 01:05:24,599 for the top 10 terpenes 1745 01:05:25,139 --> 01:05:27,380 in terms of weight percent or parts per 1746 01:05:27,380 --> 01:05:28,359 million amounts. 1747 01:05:28,820 --> 01:05:31,460 But the difference in aroma and the difference 1748 01:05:31,460 --> 01:05:34,599 in physical effects are due to other molecules 1749 01:05:34,659 --> 01:05:37,000 that testing labs are not even looking for 1750 01:05:37,355 --> 01:05:39,375 and that we have yet to even identify 1751 01:05:39,434 --> 01:05:40,255 all of them. 1752 01:05:40,795 --> 01:05:42,574 So terpenes are important, 1753 01:05:42,954 --> 01:05:45,514 and they do have medicinal applications, but they're 1754 01:05:45,514 --> 01:05:47,614 not the be all end all of information 1755 01:05:47,674 --> 01:05:48,894 that you can get, unfortunately. 1756 01:05:49,594 --> 01:05:52,349 It's interesting how how terpenes we're finding out 1757 01:05:52,349 --> 01:05:54,430 are just one of the voices in a 1758 01:05:54,430 --> 01:05:57,150 chorus that's made up of of alcohol esters 1759 01:05:57,150 --> 01:05:58,989 and and, honestly, a bunch of things that 1760 01:05:58,989 --> 01:06:00,829 I don't even know the vocabulary for Yep. 1761 01:06:00,989 --> 01:06:04,050 Because abstracts is doing all this original research, 1762 01:06:04,349 --> 01:06:06,190 which we're we're all reading and we're all 1763 01:06:06,190 --> 01:06:08,824 learning at the same time. It's really fascinating. 1764 01:06:09,045 --> 01:06:10,885 And one of the things that's important to 1765 01:06:10,885 --> 01:06:12,965 keep in mind that I learned very late 1766 01:06:12,965 --> 01:06:14,984 as a chemist, I feel like, is 1767 01:06:15,364 --> 01:06:17,605 the way that we perceive smell is not 1768 01:06:17,605 --> 01:06:18,105 linear. 1769 01:06:18,484 --> 01:06:20,344 So, you know, if you think about, like, 1770 01:06:20,699 --> 01:06:23,260 visible visibility and color, like the darker the 1771 01:06:23,260 --> 01:06:25,440 color, the more that molecule is there, right? 1772 01:06:25,579 --> 01:06:27,260 That is not the same thing with smell. 1773 01:06:27,260 --> 01:06:29,980 And so there are certain compounds that, that 1774 01:06:29,980 --> 01:06:32,380 like contain sulfur, for instance, like that rotten 1775 01:06:32,380 --> 01:06:34,460 egg smell that you only need a very 1776 01:06:34,460 --> 01:06:35,359 tiny amount 1777 01:06:35,994 --> 01:06:37,534 to perceive at a very 1778 01:06:37,914 --> 01:06:38,414 large 1779 01:06:38,795 --> 01:06:39,295 smell 1780 01:06:39,594 --> 01:06:41,034 amount. I don't know what the right term 1781 01:06:41,034 --> 01:06:42,954 is. You'll, you'll feel it really a lot 1782 01:06:42,954 --> 01:06:45,675 in your smell receptors, even though it's not 1783 01:06:45,675 --> 01:06:47,135 the dominant molecule. 1784 01:06:47,434 --> 01:06:49,534 And that's what we're seeing with terpenes is 1785 01:06:50,130 --> 01:06:51,349 we can see that, 1786 01:06:51,809 --> 01:06:53,889 in a machine, the terpene might be the 1787 01:06:53,889 --> 01:06:54,389 dominant 1788 01:06:55,089 --> 01:06:58,710 molecule present or in a relatively high amount, 1789 01:06:59,170 --> 01:07:01,089 but there's a different smell that's at a 1790 01:07:01,089 --> 01:07:03,750 smaller concentration that's affecting our smell 1791 01:07:04,130 --> 01:07:04,630 receptors 1792 01:07:05,155 --> 01:07:08,115 much more. And so it's not linear in 1793 01:07:08,115 --> 01:07:10,035 the same way that the machines are linear. 1794 01:07:10,035 --> 01:07:11,974 Right? Our machines will measure things, 1795 01:07:12,755 --> 01:07:14,994 in a in a relationship to one another 1796 01:07:14,994 --> 01:07:16,595 and give you a math unit out the 1797 01:07:16,595 --> 01:07:19,494 other side. But your body is not always 1798 01:07:19,555 --> 01:07:21,599 linear in how it perceives or 1799 01:07:21,900 --> 01:07:23,359 absorbs these molecules. 1800 01:07:23,820 --> 01:07:25,900 That's great. That's that's a good point. Yeah. 1801 01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:27,359 So some of the some of the 1802 01:07:28,219 --> 01:07:29,359 some of the aromatics, 1803 01:07:29,739 --> 01:07:32,559 we will experience at a much more potent 1804 01:07:32,619 --> 01:07:35,900 experience level than the math tells us. Yeah. 1805 01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:38,184 Yeah. I've always found that experience with terpineoline, 1806 01:07:38,405 --> 01:07:39,525 which I think one of the reasons why 1807 01:07:39,525 --> 01:07:41,204 I think that people get out so excited 1808 01:07:41,204 --> 01:07:42,505 when they come across it, 1809 01:07:43,684 --> 01:07:46,905 because it's it's it's tasty and more equatorial 1810 01:07:47,045 --> 01:07:48,565 and kinda harder for us to get up 1811 01:07:48,565 --> 01:07:49,065 here. 1812 01:07:52,269 --> 01:07:54,609 So let's let's do that same thing again 1813 01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:57,469 but with instead of with aromatics and terpenes 1814 01:07:57,469 --> 01:07:59,309 let's do it with the cannabinoids what what 1815 01:07:59,309 --> 01:08:01,409 is a pretty common unscientific 1816 01:08:01,869 --> 01:08:04,210 hope that people have about about the cannabinoids 1817 01:08:07,135 --> 01:08:09,214 I think to some extent that they can 1818 01:08:09,214 --> 01:08:10,514 get really pure 1819 01:08:10,815 --> 01:08:12,434 extracts in your kitchen, 1820 01:08:12,815 --> 01:08:14,574 and you're just not going to, and and 1821 01:08:14,574 --> 01:08:16,414 that's also okay. Mhmm. 1822 01:08:17,054 --> 01:08:18,274 You know, sometimes, 1823 01:08:19,609 --> 01:08:21,949 obviously making your own medicine is really useful, 1824 01:08:22,010 --> 01:08:24,409 particularly if you're trying to grow a specific 1825 01:08:24,409 --> 01:08:26,989 strain or have a specific dose profile 1826 01:08:27,369 --> 01:08:29,289 or live in an area that doesn't have 1827 01:08:29,289 --> 01:08:30,750 access to legal, 1828 01:08:31,929 --> 01:08:32,429 products. 1829 01:08:32,814 --> 01:08:34,335 But one of the things I tell people 1830 01:08:34,335 --> 01:08:36,335 that when they live in a state that 1831 01:08:36,335 --> 01:08:39,534 has access to extracts and concentrates is it 1832 01:08:39,534 --> 01:08:42,354 can be pretty inexpensive and easy to purchase 1833 01:08:42,895 --> 01:08:45,635 rosin or whole plant extracts like RSO 1834 01:08:46,130 --> 01:08:48,369 in a medical dosing syringe and then use 1835 01:08:48,369 --> 01:08:50,309 that to make your own tincture edibles. 1836 01:08:51,090 --> 01:08:53,029 It reduces a huge amount of mess. 1837 01:08:53,729 --> 01:08:56,630 They're often the people making it are optimizing, 1838 01:08:57,329 --> 01:09:00,944 you know, for more cannabinoid extraction and less 1839 01:09:01,024 --> 01:09:03,664 other plant molecule extraction. And they probably know 1840 01:09:03,664 --> 01:09:04,944 a little bit better than you what they're 1841 01:09:04,944 --> 01:09:05,444 doing. 1842 01:09:06,944 --> 01:09:09,185 So so that can be a way to 1843 01:09:09,185 --> 01:09:12,005 avoid some of the messy smells and extracts 1844 01:09:12,064 --> 01:09:12,804 and questions, 1845 01:09:13,380 --> 01:09:15,460 in your own kitchen. But obviously, that's not 1846 01:09:15,460 --> 01:09:16,520 available to everybody. 1847 01:09:17,860 --> 01:09:20,659 But in terms of, you know, realistic numbers 1848 01:09:20,659 --> 01:09:22,119 for making things like RSO, 1849 01:09:22,979 --> 01:09:24,500 I would say 60% 1850 01:09:24,500 --> 01:09:26,685 is great. And if you get above that, 1851 01:09:26,845 --> 01:09:28,465 wow. You're really doing a good job. 1852 01:09:30,125 --> 01:09:32,524 And and again, there's a lot of other 1853 01:09:32,524 --> 01:09:36,685 molecules that help the entourage effect and assist 1854 01:09:36,685 --> 01:09:37,345 the cannabinoids 1855 01:09:38,045 --> 01:09:39,744 in doing their job medically 1856 01:09:40,125 --> 01:09:42,060 that, you know, you want to be there. 1857 01:09:42,699 --> 01:09:45,020 You know, I don't find distillate to be 1858 01:09:45,020 --> 01:09:46,539 distillate, you know, that you could buy at 1859 01:09:46,539 --> 01:09:48,319 a store that's maybe 90% 1860 01:09:48,619 --> 01:09:49,520 pure THC. 1861 01:09:50,619 --> 01:09:52,399 I don't think that is very medically, 1862 01:09:53,340 --> 01:09:54,560 interesting or, 1863 01:09:55,139 --> 01:09:56,780 you know, we, you really need some of 1864 01:09:56,780 --> 01:10:00,014 those other molecules present, to aid in 1865 01:10:00,395 --> 01:10:01,135 the efficacy. 1866 01:10:02,474 --> 01:10:05,675 So, again, that that THC number is not 1867 01:10:05,675 --> 01:10:07,434 the be all end all of of high 1868 01:10:07,434 --> 01:10:10,715 quality product by any means. Amen. Especially for 1869 01:10:10,715 --> 01:10:12,554 medicinal. You know, it's interesting that you would 1870 01:10:12,554 --> 01:10:14,310 point out the the distillate. 1871 01:10:14,689 --> 01:10:16,949 That is a challenge that I mean, nowadays, 1872 01:10:17,090 --> 01:10:17,590 people 1873 01:10:17,890 --> 01:10:19,250 who I talk to, they have a better 1874 01:10:19,250 --> 01:10:21,729 idea of what whole plant medicine is and 1875 01:10:21,729 --> 01:10:23,250 and, you know, even if they can't explain 1876 01:10:23,250 --> 01:10:25,189 it, they under can understand what the entourage 1877 01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:26,069 effect is. 1878 01:10:26,604 --> 01:10:27,104 And, 1879 01:10:28,125 --> 01:10:30,625 when people look at whole plant RSO, 1880 01:10:31,805 --> 01:10:33,805 or any of the given names it's given, 1881 01:10:33,805 --> 01:10:36,064 like full extract cannabis oil, 1882 01:10:37,405 --> 01:10:38,925 they're all like, oh, I don't want this. 1883 01:10:38,925 --> 01:10:40,864 This is only 60%. 1884 01:10:41,119 --> 01:10:42,960 You know. It it it's because they were 1885 01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:43,460 built 1886 01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,039 their experiences with distillate at 90%, which sounds 1887 01:10:47,039 --> 01:10:49,439 like you're getting more bang for your bang 1888 01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:51,680 for your buck. But but actually, it's a 1889 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,399 it's a different it's a whole different kind 1890 01:10:54,399 --> 01:10:56,204 of medicine. And it takes a while for 1891 01:10:56,204 --> 01:10:57,965 people to realize that, okay, you're giving up 1892 01:10:57,965 --> 01:10:59,104 some of your THC, 1893 01:10:59,965 --> 01:11:02,545 but, but but the rest of the entourage 1894 01:11:02,764 --> 01:11:04,925 that comes along with it, they all work 1895 01:11:04,925 --> 01:11:05,965 together in a, 1896 01:11:06,524 --> 01:11:08,864 you know, towards a a synchronistic 1897 01:11:09,164 --> 01:11:09,664 way. 1898 01:11:10,039 --> 01:11:12,920 And, you know, again, it it doesn't make 1899 01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,479 buying distillate bad, especially if you're on a 1900 01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:17,640 ninety day cancer protocol and you're really just 1901 01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:18,699 trying to cause apoptosis. 1902 01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,199 But generally speaking, and I would say even 1903 01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:24,680 for the cancer patients, having a whole plant 1904 01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:25,895 at 60%, 1905 01:11:27,155 --> 01:11:29,475 with all those, you know, juicy other parts 1906 01:11:29,475 --> 01:11:31,635 in there is going to be your your 1907 01:11:31,635 --> 01:11:34,274 top shelf medicine across the board, especially if 1908 01:11:34,274 --> 01:11:35,734 it's grown, outdoor. 1909 01:11:36,194 --> 01:11:37,095 Yeah. Absolutely. 1910 01:11:37,989 --> 01:11:38,489 Mhmm. 1911 01:11:39,029 --> 01:11:40,469 So, alright. So, 1912 01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:43,750 let's go ahead and take our, second short 1913 01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:45,449 break and we'll be right back. 1914 01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:48,310 You are listening to Shaping Fire and my 1915 01:11:48,310 --> 01:11:50,649 guest today is chemist Amber Wise. 1916 01:11:53,844 --> 01:11:56,104 This message is for folks who grow cannabis. 1917 01:11:56,164 --> 01:11:58,725 I'm talking to home growers, patients, and commercial 1918 01:11:58,725 --> 01:12:01,685 growers too. I'm probably talking to you. When 1919 01:12:01,685 --> 01:12:03,685 you plan out your next growing cycle, be 1920 01:12:03,685 --> 01:12:05,864 sure to check out Humboldt CSI 1921 01:12:06,164 --> 01:12:08,960 seeds at humboldtcsi.com. 1922 01:12:09,340 --> 01:12:11,500 Caleb Inspecta and his family have lived in 1923 01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:13,819 Humboldt County for over a hundred years. For 1924 01:12:13,819 --> 01:12:16,300 the last forty years, three generations of his 1925 01:12:16,300 --> 01:12:18,000 family have cultivated extraordinary 1926 01:12:18,380 --> 01:12:21,020 sense of mia cannabis in Humboldt, Mendocino, and 1927 01:12:21,020 --> 01:12:22,000 Trinity Counties. 1928 01:12:22,735 --> 01:12:25,055 Because of his lineage and the hard earned 1929 01:12:25,055 --> 01:12:27,854 experience that comes from growing up smoking and 1930 01:12:27,854 --> 01:12:30,574 sifting large populations of cannabis plants in Northern 1931 01:12:30,574 --> 01:12:31,074 California, 1932 01:12:31,534 --> 01:12:33,775 the seeds you'll cop from CSI will be 1933 01:12:33,775 --> 01:12:34,595 winning genetics 1934 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,739 based on long time heavy hitters and updated 1935 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,960 and resifted to bring out new and exotic 1936 01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:41,340 traits and better yields. 1937 01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,280 Go ahead and ask around. Caleb, also known 1938 01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:46,920 as Inspecta and Pirates of the Emerald Triangle 1939 01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,614 is a breeder's breeder. He reaches way back 1940 01:12:49,614 --> 01:12:51,395 and works with significant strains, 1941 01:12:51,695 --> 01:12:54,015 recreating them in new and interesting ways that 1942 01:12:54,015 --> 01:12:56,354 you'll love as a toker and a grower, 1943 01:12:56,494 --> 01:12:58,574 as well as offering you some surprises that 1944 01:12:58,574 --> 01:13:00,994 will delight serious seed traders and cultivators. 1945 01:13:02,050 --> 01:13:05,109 Humboldt CSI goes a further step and selfs 1946 01:13:05,170 --> 01:13:07,489 all these chemovars so you know all the 1947 01:13:07,489 --> 01:13:10,229 seeds will be female. These are not experimental 1948 01:13:10,529 --> 01:13:11,590 feminized seeds. 1949 01:13:11,890 --> 01:13:14,609 Humboldt CSI releases some of the best female 1950 01:13:14,609 --> 01:13:17,125 seeds available anywhere and it will show in 1951 01:13:17,125 --> 01:13:17,784 your garden. 1952 01:13:18,404 --> 01:13:20,484 Folks grew quite a bit of CSI Humboldt 1953 01:13:20,484 --> 01:13:22,645 Gen X last year here on Vashon Island 1954 01:13:22,645 --> 01:13:25,704 and everyone was pleased. The patients had beautiful 1955 01:13:25,764 --> 01:13:28,085 female plants and didn't have to cull half 1956 01:13:28,085 --> 01:13:29,465 of their garden as males. 1957 01:13:29,789 --> 01:13:31,789 The folks growing for the fun of getting 1958 01:13:31,789 --> 01:13:35,069 high grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal 1959 01:13:35,069 --> 01:13:38,109 and great highs. And breeders had seven out 1960 01:13:38,109 --> 01:13:40,109 of seven females in a pack which gave 1961 01:13:40,109 --> 01:13:41,969 them a lot of phenotypic choices. 1962 01:13:42,755 --> 01:13:47,074 Take a moment right now and visit humboldtcsi.com. 1963 01:13:47,074 --> 01:13:48,835 You'll find an up to date menu of 1964 01:13:48,835 --> 01:13:51,795 both feminized and regular lines along with photos 1965 01:13:51,795 --> 01:13:52,534 and descriptions. 1966 01:13:52,914 --> 01:13:56,135 That's humboldtcsi.com. 1967 01:14:00,359 --> 01:14:02,679 One of the challenges with buying autoflower seeds 1968 01:14:02,679 --> 01:14:04,519 is that often you'll have as many different 1969 01:14:04,519 --> 01:14:06,439 phenos as you will have seeds in a 1970 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,404 pack. That can be fun, sure, but so 1971 01:14:09,404 --> 01:14:11,645 many varieties in one pack is a sign 1972 01:14:11,645 --> 01:14:13,804 of an immature seed line that hasn't been 1973 01:14:13,804 --> 01:14:14,545 worked enough. 1974 01:14:15,164 --> 01:14:17,564 I prefer my autoflowers to be worked enough 1975 01:14:17,564 --> 01:14:19,724 that each fino in the pack really captures 1976 01:14:19,724 --> 01:14:21,664 the aspects that the breeder was intending. 1977 01:14:22,670 --> 01:14:23,969 This is why I recommend 1978 01:14:24,270 --> 01:14:26,670 Gnome automatics to my friends and listeners who 1979 01:14:26,670 --> 01:14:28,850 grow automatic flowering cannabis seeds. 1980 01:14:29,630 --> 01:14:32,029 Gnome automatic seeds are not just crossed and 1981 01:14:32,029 --> 01:14:32,529 released, 1982 01:14:32,829 --> 01:14:35,984 they are painstakingly sifted again and again, tested 1983 01:14:35,984 --> 01:14:38,465 in a wide range of conditions, and taken 1984 01:14:38,465 --> 01:14:40,545 to a level of maturity that each plant 1985 01:14:40,545 --> 01:14:42,484 will be recognizable by its traits. 1986 01:14:43,264 --> 01:14:45,344 Traits that were hard earned so that you 1987 01:14:45,344 --> 01:14:47,444 can have your best growth cycle ever. 1988 01:14:48,289 --> 01:14:51,250 Over the last ten years, Gnome Automatics founder 1989 01:14:51,250 --> 01:14:53,810 Dan Jimmy has become a trusted breeder and 1990 01:14:53,810 --> 01:14:55,890 he continues to pour his passion of breeding 1991 01:14:55,890 --> 01:14:58,689 cannabis into every variety he releases for you 1992 01:14:58,689 --> 01:14:59,350 to grow. 1993 01:15:00,175 --> 01:15:02,354 Check out the Gnome Automatics Instagram 1994 01:15:02,814 --> 01:15:05,074 at gnome_automatics 1995 01:15:05,295 --> 01:15:07,715 to see the impressive plants folks are growing. 1996 01:15:08,494 --> 01:15:11,234 You can score Gnome Automatic seeds in feminized 1997 01:15:11,454 --> 01:15:13,949 or regular at your favorite seed provider listed 1998 01:15:13,949 --> 01:15:15,729 in the vendor section of their website. 1999 01:15:16,670 --> 01:15:19,309 Commercial cannabis farms across the country love growing 2000 01:15:19,309 --> 01:15:22,429 Gnome automatics because of their consistency from seed 2001 01:15:22,429 --> 01:15:23,170 to seed, 2002 01:15:23,550 --> 01:15:26,130 short grow times, THC percentages, 2003 01:15:26,510 --> 01:15:28,005 and colorful bag appeal. 2004 01:15:28,564 --> 01:15:30,804 Farms interested in bulk seeds of more than 2005 01:15:30,804 --> 01:15:34,824 a thousand should reach out through gnomeautomatics.com. 2006 01:15:35,685 --> 01:15:37,444 While on the website, be sure to check 2007 01:15:37,444 --> 01:15:39,925 out the gnome automatics shirts and other merch 2008 01:15:39,925 --> 01:15:40,904 section too. 2009 01:15:41,340 --> 01:15:44,300 If you want reliable seeds, hand built from 2010 01:15:44,300 --> 01:15:46,720 effort, expert selection, and experience, 2011 01:15:47,260 --> 01:15:48,960 choose Gnome Automatic. 2012 01:15:53,114 --> 01:15:54,954 You've heard me talk about the award winning 2013 01:15:54,954 --> 01:15:57,275 cannabis seeds that come from the analytical breeding 2014 01:15:57,275 --> 01:15:59,835 program of Seth and Eric Crawford who founded 2015 01:15:59,835 --> 01:16:02,875 Oregon CBD seeds. In fact, Seth was a 2016 01:16:02,875 --> 01:16:05,135 guest on shaping fire in 2020 2017 01:16:05,195 --> 01:16:06,895 to talk about triploid genetics. 2018 01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,340 Seth and Eric are now releasing high THC 2019 01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:13,119 seeds for home growers and farms as Grow 2020 01:16:13,119 --> 01:16:13,780 The Revolution 2021 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,060 seeds at gtrseeds.com. 2022 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,994 Their high THC seeds are extraordinary in that 2023 01:16:20,994 --> 01:16:23,234 they will start to flower at sixteen and 2024 01:16:23,234 --> 01:16:25,554 a half hours of daylight instead of the 2025 01:16:25,554 --> 01:16:27,814 typical fourteen and a half hours of daylight. 2026 01:16:28,194 --> 01:16:30,994 That means in most regions, your plants will 2027 01:16:30,994 --> 01:16:33,494 start to flower outdoors in the July 2028 01:16:33,715 --> 01:16:35,430 instead of the August, 2029 01:16:35,829 --> 01:16:38,729 which means these photoperiod plants finish in September 2030 01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:40,170 and not October, 2031 01:16:40,550 --> 01:16:43,210 totally upending the photoperiod seed market. 2032 01:16:43,829 --> 01:16:46,570 Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering 2033 01:16:46,630 --> 01:16:48,864 CBG line and bred it to some of 2034 01:16:48,864 --> 01:16:52,485 the most desired verified genetics out there, including 2035 01:16:52,545 --> 01:16:56,324 Sour Diesel, Triangle Kush, Wedding Cake, Chemdog, Skittles, 2036 01:16:56,385 --> 01:16:57,045 and others. 2037 01:16:57,425 --> 01:17:01,185 These crosses all express powerful photoperiod terpene profiles 2038 01:17:01,185 --> 01:17:01,925 and THC, 2039 01:17:02,409 --> 01:17:03,789 giving you a great high. 2040 01:17:04,489 --> 01:17:07,930 GTR Seeds has a new THCV line with 2041 01:17:07,930 --> 01:17:10,029 plants like Double Durban and Gigantor 2042 01:17:10,329 --> 01:17:13,390 that boast one to one THC to THCV. 2043 01:17:14,010 --> 01:17:15,630 And people want that THCV. 2044 01:17:16,864 --> 01:17:18,965 GTR seeds are very consistent, 2045 01:17:19,425 --> 01:17:22,564 true growing inbred f ones from stabilized 2046 01:17:22,864 --> 01:17:24,244 inbred parent lines. 2047 01:17:24,545 --> 01:17:26,564 These seeds are nearly homogeneous, 2048 01:17:26,945 --> 01:17:29,204 and the plants should all grow the same. 2049 01:17:29,359 --> 01:17:32,179 There is only one phenotype in every pack, 2050 01:17:32,399 --> 01:17:34,260 available as diploids and triploids. 2051 01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:37,539 Seth and Eric's company is still family owned, 2052 01:17:37,599 --> 01:17:40,399 patient and employee centric, and partially powered by 2053 01:17:40,399 --> 01:17:42,179 their two acres of solar panels. 2054 01:17:42,824 --> 01:17:45,065 Everyone can purchase these seeds and the entire 2055 01:17:45,065 --> 01:17:50,045 catalog of Oregon CBD seeds at gtrseeds.com. 2056 01:17:50,265 --> 01:17:52,104 Go to gtrseeds.com 2057 01:17:52,104 --> 01:17:54,125 today and choose something revolutionary 2058 01:17:54,425 --> 01:17:56,525 for your next indoor or outdoor run. 2059 01:17:58,159 --> 01:18:00,399 Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire. 2060 01:18:00,399 --> 01:18:02,479 I am your host, Shango Los. And my 2061 01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:03,699 guest today is chemist 2062 01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:04,979 Amber Wise. 2063 01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:07,760 So Amber, you know, much earlier in the 2064 01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,784 show, we were very clear that, when interacting 2065 01:18:10,784 --> 01:18:13,505 with lab staff, we should a, be very 2066 01:18:13,505 --> 01:18:16,545 polite, b, ask for what we want, and 2067 01:18:16,545 --> 01:18:17,045 c, 2068 01:18:17,425 --> 01:18:19,845 don't ask them to fix our technique 2069 01:18:20,465 --> 01:18:22,319 because, it's not your job 2070 01:18:22,639 --> 01:18:24,719 And and honestly, in some states, giving advice 2071 01:18:24,719 --> 01:18:26,319 on that might actually put them in get 2072 01:18:26,319 --> 01:18:28,479 them in trouble. So we wanna be really 2073 01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,279 respectful of the lab folks and, and not 2074 01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:33,119 ask them about how to make our technique 2075 01:18:33,119 --> 01:18:34,260 better. But 2076 01:18:34,925 --> 01:18:36,945 you are not on the clock right now, 2077 01:18:37,405 --> 01:18:39,324 and you are on the front lines of 2078 01:18:39,324 --> 01:18:41,405 all of this testing, and you see a 2079 01:18:41,405 --> 01:18:44,065 lot of tinctures and a lot of RSO, 2080 01:18:44,525 --> 01:18:47,025 the things that patients most often make, 2081 01:18:47,850 --> 01:18:50,350 even if they're a precursor for edibles. So 2082 01:18:50,890 --> 01:18:52,409 I would like to ask you for a 2083 01:18:52,409 --> 01:18:54,570 couple best practices that you've seen from the 2084 01:18:54,570 --> 01:18:55,869 bench. So 2085 01:18:56,489 --> 01:18:58,649 what are some things that you know about 2086 01:18:58,649 --> 01:19:00,590 making tinctures, some best practices 2087 01:19:01,215 --> 01:19:02,975 that you wanna raise your hand and make 2088 01:19:02,975 --> 01:19:04,114 sure people are considering? 2089 01:19:05,854 --> 01:19:07,155 Yeah. I think, 2090 01:19:08,175 --> 01:19:10,515 I there's obviously a lot of information online 2091 01:19:10,655 --> 01:19:13,135 about how to make extracts at home, and 2092 01:19:13,135 --> 01:19:15,395 I don't wanna rehash any of that necessarily. 2093 01:19:15,534 --> 01:19:17,689 And but I do also understand that it 2094 01:19:17,689 --> 01:19:19,550 can be confusing and overwhelming. 2095 01:19:20,489 --> 01:19:22,109 One of the things I always recommend 2096 01:19:23,289 --> 01:19:25,789 is, making sure everything is frozen, 2097 01:19:26,409 --> 01:19:27,630 and that includes 2098 01:19:28,170 --> 01:19:31,369 your bowls, your mixing materials, your jars, like, 2099 01:19:31,369 --> 01:19:32,944 whatever you're using for filtration, 2100 01:19:33,965 --> 01:19:36,524 soaking, whatever. Put everything in the freezer so 2101 01:19:36,524 --> 01:19:38,685 it's all as cold as as possible. That 2102 01:19:38,685 --> 01:19:40,304 includes your flour as well, 2103 01:19:40,604 --> 01:19:42,224 your ethanol or 2104 01:19:42,604 --> 01:19:43,104 extraction, 2105 01:19:43,804 --> 01:19:46,204 solvents. Generally, it's ethanol if we're talking about 2106 01:19:46,204 --> 01:19:46,704 RSO. 2107 01:19:48,100 --> 01:19:50,279 And so just make sure everything's really cold 2108 01:19:50,420 --> 01:19:51,560 and the cannabinoids 2109 01:19:51,939 --> 01:19:54,739 are still soluble in ethanol. That means you 2110 01:19:54,739 --> 01:19:56,039 will extract the cannabinoids, 2111 01:19:56,420 --> 01:19:58,180 but the fats and the lipids are much 2112 01:19:58,180 --> 01:19:59,719 less soluble in ethanol 2113 01:20:00,034 --> 01:20:02,274 at those colder temperatures. So you'll pull out 2114 01:20:02,274 --> 01:20:04,755 less of the lipids and somewhat less of 2115 01:20:04,755 --> 01:20:05,414 the chlorophyll. 2116 01:20:05,795 --> 01:20:07,335 You'll get a slightly greener, 2117 01:20:07,795 --> 01:20:09,175 lighter colored solution. 2118 01:20:09,795 --> 01:20:12,454 But that doesn't necessarily mean there's less cannabinoids 2119 01:20:12,515 --> 01:20:15,335 because the cannabinoids are colorless and also odorless. 2120 01:20:16,110 --> 01:20:18,110 So the way it looks and smells does 2121 01:20:18,110 --> 01:20:20,610 not indicate how many cannabinoids are present. 2122 01:20:22,270 --> 01:20:24,430 So that's one thing that I recommend for 2123 01:20:24,430 --> 01:20:24,909 folks. 2124 01:20:25,550 --> 01:20:27,630 Another thing I recommend, I mentioned it earlier, 2125 01:20:27,630 --> 01:20:29,149 but if you are in a state where 2126 01:20:29,149 --> 01:20:31,570 you can go into a store and purchase 2127 01:20:31,765 --> 01:20:32,265 extracts, 2128 01:20:33,284 --> 01:20:34,824 that can be a lot easier 2129 01:20:35,685 --> 01:20:36,585 to start from. 2130 01:20:36,965 --> 01:20:38,904 And there's generally pretty high quality, 2131 01:20:39,284 --> 01:20:42,085 either RSO or they call it FICO, full 2132 01:20:42,085 --> 01:20:44,810 extract cannabis. What does that stand for? Oil. 2133 01:20:44,810 --> 01:20:46,649 You had it. Right? Full extract cannabis oil. 2134 01:20:46,649 --> 01:20:49,130 Yep. Yeah. There's a couple different versions of 2135 01:20:49,130 --> 01:20:50,750 it that's already been decarbed, 2136 01:20:51,289 --> 01:20:53,689 and then they're nicely dosed. They're usually, like, 2137 01:20:53,689 --> 01:20:55,949 one gram size or maybe two gram size. 2138 01:20:56,104 --> 01:20:58,344 So you kind of already have your dosing 2139 01:20:58,344 --> 01:21:00,204 like slightly built in there. 2140 01:21:01,545 --> 01:21:03,145 There's already been a test run on it 2141 01:21:03,145 --> 01:21:05,304 and there's already a cannabinoid number assigned to 2142 01:21:05,304 --> 01:21:05,804 it. 2143 01:21:07,064 --> 01:21:08,664 But if you're not in the area that 2144 01:21:08,664 --> 01:21:10,344 that that's available to you, 2145 01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,659 keeping everything really cold is is really important 2146 01:21:14,119 --> 01:21:17,579 and not necessarily extracting for way longer. 2147 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,659 I think two fast cold extracts 2148 01:21:22,119 --> 01:21:25,739 are better than one long room temperature extract. 2149 01:21:26,905 --> 01:21:29,225 So that's like one rinse through the flour 2150 01:21:29,225 --> 01:21:30,905 and then keep putting everything back in the 2151 01:21:30,905 --> 01:21:32,664 freezer and then a second rinse through the 2152 01:21:32,664 --> 01:21:33,485 same flour, 2153 01:21:34,425 --> 01:21:36,045 is better than, 2154 01:21:36,425 --> 01:21:38,265 you know, a longer extract overnight at room 2155 01:21:38,265 --> 01:21:40,505 temperature. You're just gonna pull everything out of 2156 01:21:40,505 --> 01:21:42,229 the flower in that case. In the in 2157 01:21:42,229 --> 01:21:44,010 the old days, there are so many, 2158 01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:47,350 early magazine articles that talk about green dragon 2159 01:21:47,350 --> 01:21:49,590 and doing it at room temperature and just, 2160 01:21:49,590 --> 01:21:51,109 you know, just put it on your shelf 2161 01:21:51,109 --> 01:21:53,130 for a, you know, a month or whatever. 2162 01:21:53,545 --> 01:21:56,604 Yeah. And and, you know, that does work. 2163 01:21:56,664 --> 01:21:57,965 It does work. 2164 01:21:58,505 --> 01:22:01,085 You are going to get so much chlorophyll 2165 01:22:01,304 --> 01:22:03,545 and so and all the fats in the 2166 01:22:03,545 --> 01:22:05,064 world. Yep. And, 2167 01:22:05,545 --> 01:22:06,523 you know, many patients are, very reactive to 2168 01:22:06,523 --> 01:22:07,074 that much chlorophyll. Mhmm. I'm reactive to that 2169 01:22:07,074 --> 01:22:07,574 much 2170 01:22:10,670 --> 01:22:13,069 I'm reactive to that much chlorophyll just because 2171 01:22:13,069 --> 01:22:14,750 my body doesn't like that much. Like, I 2172 01:22:14,750 --> 01:22:16,350 I haven't been able to have a wheatgrass 2173 01:22:16,350 --> 01:22:18,510 shot since college because it just turns my 2174 01:22:18,510 --> 01:22:19,010 stomach. 2175 01:22:19,469 --> 01:22:21,229 And there's there's lots of patients who are 2176 01:22:21,229 --> 01:22:22,369 like that. And so 2177 01:22:22,715 --> 01:22:24,715 so the old the old Green Dragon stuff, 2178 01:22:24,715 --> 01:22:26,795 like, it would work. But there were a 2179 01:22:26,795 --> 01:22:29,114 lot of attributes that it would have that 2180 01:22:29,114 --> 01:22:30,654 are are not as good. 2181 01:22:31,034 --> 01:22:32,974 And they're almost all 2182 01:22:33,274 --> 01:22:33,934 solved by following your advice 2183 01:22:34,474 --> 01:22:34,859 and 2184 01:22:35,340 --> 01:22:37,899 following your advice and and bringing everything to 2185 01:22:37,899 --> 01:22:40,639 a freezing temperature. And and for anybody who's 2186 01:22:40,699 --> 01:22:42,699 who wants who's raising their hand, yes, we 2187 01:22:42,699 --> 01:22:45,100 know ethanol will not freeze at a freezing 2188 01:22:45,100 --> 01:22:47,439 temperature. But the point is is we want 2189 01:22:48,060 --> 01:22:50,079 everything to be frozen cold 2190 01:22:50,704 --> 01:22:53,284 so that those the fats and the chlorophyll 2191 01:22:53,425 --> 01:22:54,484 and the other, 2192 01:22:54,864 --> 01:22:56,244 what I'll call contaminants, 2193 01:22:57,744 --> 01:22:58,244 stay 2194 01:22:59,265 --> 01:23:02,484 frozen in situ and we just pull out 2195 01:23:03,069 --> 01:23:03,569 the, 2196 01:23:04,989 --> 01:23:07,710 the resin that's in the trichomes on the 2197 01:23:07,710 --> 01:23:08,929 exterior. So 2198 01:23:09,710 --> 01:23:11,890 the rest of the plant material stays 2199 01:23:12,989 --> 01:23:14,050 hard and frozen, 2200 01:23:14,590 --> 01:23:15,489 but the 2201 01:23:15,949 --> 01:23:19,225 ethanol is going to caustically chew through that 2202 01:23:19,225 --> 01:23:21,545 waxy trichome really fast just in a couple 2203 01:23:21,545 --> 01:23:23,625 minutes and then dump its resin and then 2204 01:23:23,625 --> 01:23:25,225 we strain it and off to the races 2205 01:23:25,225 --> 01:23:25,885 we go 2206 01:23:26,185 --> 01:23:26,685 and 2207 01:23:28,265 --> 01:23:30,265 you know you need a big ass freezer 2208 01:23:30,265 --> 01:23:31,784 for a little while if you're gonna do 2209 01:23:31,784 --> 01:23:33,949 any kind of volume. But, oh my gosh, 2210 01:23:33,949 --> 01:23:35,409 it makes this beautiful 2211 01:23:35,789 --> 01:23:36,850 amber product 2212 01:23:37,390 --> 01:23:39,090 that that is worth all the effort. 2213 01:23:40,109 --> 01:23:40,590 Yeah. 2214 01:23:41,310 --> 01:23:43,310 It is. And, you know, it feels kinda 2215 01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:44,750 more I don't know. I I guess I'm 2216 01:23:44,750 --> 01:23:47,094 a chemist. I love to do chemistry, so 2217 01:23:47,094 --> 01:23:49,255 it feels more technical sometimes when you're doing 2218 01:23:49,255 --> 01:23:51,094 it that way, like, more fun. But maybe 2219 01:23:51,094 --> 01:23:52,375 people don't like to play lab like I 2220 01:23:52,375 --> 01:23:53,594 did when I was a kid. 2221 01:23:54,054 --> 01:23:55,974 Well, if we wanna play lab, we should 2222 01:23:55,974 --> 01:23:58,454 mention the the the Queue IT by name 2223 01:23:58,454 --> 01:23:59,814 then. Right? Do you wanna tell us a 2224 01:23:59,814 --> 01:24:00,954 little bit about it? Because, 2225 01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:02,920 when I first learned about it that that 2226 01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:04,840 was the easiest way for me to lock 2227 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:07,659 into good technique because when you search it 2228 01:24:08,039 --> 01:24:08,780 it it gives 2229 01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:11,960 what I don't know what cuet stands for 2230 01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:14,119 is that silly the thing excuse me yeah 2231 01:24:14,119 --> 01:24:15,020 cuet is 2232 01:24:15,555 --> 01:24:17,255 quick wash ethanol tincture. 2233 01:24:17,715 --> 01:24:19,635 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's basically 2234 01:24:19,635 --> 01:24:21,795 what I was describing. Sure. But I only 2235 01:24:21,795 --> 01:24:24,195 mentioned it by by by terminology because you 2236 01:24:24,195 --> 01:24:26,515 were talking about playing science or, like, like, 2237 01:24:26,515 --> 01:24:28,789 playing lab. Right? And and, like, you know, 2238 01:24:28,789 --> 01:24:30,710 when I found out what I already did 2239 01:24:30,710 --> 01:24:32,470 had a had a name for it that 2240 01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:34,550 was lab, I started using that instantly because 2241 01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:36,789 I thought I sounded Yeah. Like, smarter. And 2242 01:24:36,789 --> 01:24:38,949 that's No. That's great. You did. You sound 2243 01:24:38,949 --> 01:24:40,390 very smart because I didn't even know what 2244 01:24:40,390 --> 01:24:41,369 you're talking about. 2245 01:24:43,494 --> 01:24:44,795 No. Yeah. I, I think, 2246 01:24:45,494 --> 01:24:47,814 just, you know, having everything really cold and 2247 01:24:47,814 --> 01:24:50,074 then mixing it together and a quick 2248 01:24:50,694 --> 01:24:51,994 shake and a filtration 2249 01:24:52,534 --> 01:24:54,774 through a coffee filter and having everything be 2250 01:24:54,774 --> 01:24:57,220 as cold as possible, including all your glassware, 2251 01:24:58,079 --> 01:24:59,680 will help. And you don't really need much 2252 01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:00,800 time at all. You did a good job 2253 01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,039 of explaining that it's gonna break open those 2254 01:25:03,039 --> 01:25:05,699 trichomes quickly. And if one way to visualize 2255 01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:08,320 like fats and lipids not being soluble at 2256 01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,400 cold temperatures is like when you put broth 2257 01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:12,404 in the fridge, all the 2258 01:25:12,704 --> 01:25:14,704 fats, like, solidify and and float up to 2259 01:25:14,704 --> 01:25:16,304 the top. Right? And so that's what you're 2260 01:25:16,304 --> 01:25:16,804 doing, 2261 01:25:17,664 --> 01:25:19,984 with when you're freezing everything is, like, locking 2262 01:25:19,984 --> 01:25:22,784 up those fats into a solid form so 2263 01:25:22,784 --> 01:25:24,180 they don't dissolve into the ethanol. 2264 01:25:24,659 --> 01:25:25,720 Ethanol. Good example. 2265 01:25:26,659 --> 01:25:29,699 So so tinctures are, you know, kind of 2266 01:25:29,699 --> 01:25:32,820 like the baseline preparation for for most folks 2267 01:25:32,820 --> 01:25:34,579 who are starting to wade their way into 2268 01:25:34,579 --> 01:25:35,320 it. And, 2269 01:25:36,020 --> 01:25:37,965 I like what, Amber pointed out that if 2270 01:25:37,965 --> 01:25:39,725 you're if you're trying to determine whether or 2271 01:25:39,725 --> 01:25:40,545 not making, 2272 01:25:41,965 --> 01:25:42,465 RSO, 2273 01:25:43,085 --> 01:25:45,824 or full extract cannabis oil is for you, 2274 01:25:45,885 --> 01:25:47,824 maybe go buy some first 2275 01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:50,460 make sure that it fits your 2276 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,079 your your protocol that you've designed for yourself 2277 01:25:53,079 --> 01:25:55,819 before getting, you know, wading into this. However, 2278 01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,659 I don't know of any state that gives 2279 01:25:59,719 --> 01:26:02,939 bulk discounts to patients when buying multiple RSO. 2280 01:26:04,114 --> 01:26:05,555 And, you know, if you're a patient that's 2281 01:26:05,555 --> 01:26:06,375 going through, 2282 01:26:06,994 --> 01:26:09,154 you know, a a a syringe or more 2283 01:26:09,154 --> 01:26:11,715 a day or or, you know, there are 2284 01:26:11,715 --> 01:26:13,234 pain patients that I know that are going 2285 01:26:13,234 --> 01:26:14,114 through, you know, 2286 01:26:14,914 --> 01:26:16,515 a a a third of a syringe three 2287 01:26:16,515 --> 01:26:18,435 times a day. Right? So a syringe a 2288 01:26:18,435 --> 01:26:21,340 day, Like, that becomes very expensive. And that's 2289 01:26:21,340 --> 01:26:22,779 at the point that, you know, you need 2290 01:26:22,779 --> 01:26:24,779 to have yourself or your friend grow for 2291 01:26:24,779 --> 01:26:26,619 you. And and then you need to start 2292 01:26:26,619 --> 01:26:28,079 processing your own because 2293 01:26:28,779 --> 01:26:30,639 that first, that second, that third, 2294 01:26:31,795 --> 01:26:33,635 syringe at the store is all gonna be 2295 01:26:33,635 --> 01:26:35,395 full price. But if you make your own, 2296 01:26:35,395 --> 01:26:36,774 suddenly you've made, 2297 01:26:37,155 --> 01:26:38,534 you know, 70, 2298 01:26:39,475 --> 01:26:42,534 syringes out of a a pound of cannabis 2299 01:26:42,755 --> 01:26:45,369 and now you're you're set for for quite 2300 01:26:45,369 --> 01:26:47,369 a while and you've saved yourself a lot 2301 01:26:47,369 --> 01:26:48,029 of money. 2302 01:26:48,409 --> 01:26:49,789 So with that said, 2303 01:26:50,489 --> 01:26:54,409 tinctures are making the tincture is the first 2304 01:26:54,409 --> 01:26:55,789 set to first 2305 01:26:57,934 --> 01:26:58,914 the first step 2306 01:26:59,295 --> 01:27:02,894 to making the RSO and so using this 2307 01:27:02,894 --> 01:27:05,614 QNET method and making everything cold is is 2308 01:27:05,614 --> 01:27:07,875 is your first step towards making great RSO 2309 01:27:09,054 --> 01:27:09,715 so so 2310 01:27:10,829 --> 01:27:13,390 taking this to the the next step, Amber, 2311 01:27:13,390 --> 01:27:14,030 do you have, 2312 01:27:14,590 --> 01:27:16,530 an additional best practices 2313 01:27:16,909 --> 01:27:19,170 for that next step going into the RSO? 2314 01:27:19,789 --> 01:27:21,329 Yeah. So I guess, 2315 01:27:21,789 --> 01:27:23,810 one of the things is when you filter, 2316 01:27:24,030 --> 01:27:26,304 it's often hard to press out all of 2317 01:27:26,304 --> 01:27:28,145 the liquid. That's true. So I like to 2318 01:27:28,145 --> 01:27:29,764 do at least two 2319 01:27:30,064 --> 01:27:32,385 rinses with a very small amount of cold 2320 01:27:32,385 --> 01:27:34,545 ethanol to just try to get some of 2321 01:27:34,545 --> 01:27:38,085 that extra liquid out that definitely has cannabinoids 2322 01:27:38,599 --> 01:27:40,119 in there. I mean, that's what chemists do 2323 01:27:40,119 --> 01:27:42,219 when they're rinsing crystals or something 2324 01:27:42,599 --> 01:27:45,239 or trying to rinse out all the extract 2325 01:27:45,239 --> 01:27:46,840 from a plant material is you wanna do 2326 01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:49,819 one or two rinses and reducing the amount 2327 01:27:50,199 --> 01:27:50,859 of solvent 2328 01:27:51,364 --> 01:27:53,284 that you use as much as possible. That 2329 01:27:53,284 --> 01:27:54,965 will reduce the amount of time it takes 2330 01:27:54,965 --> 01:27:56,885 to remove all of that later when you're 2331 01:27:56,885 --> 01:27:58,505 trying to remove the ethanol later. 2332 01:27:59,845 --> 01:28:00,905 So I, 2333 01:28:01,364 --> 01:28:04,585 my preferred way is I don't generally decarb 2334 01:28:05,329 --> 01:28:08,390 the flour first. I will do a cold 2335 01:28:08,930 --> 01:28:11,729 extract and then put everything in a crock 2336 01:28:11,729 --> 01:28:12,229 pot 2337 01:28:12,609 --> 01:28:15,109 to evaporate off the ethanol. And that 2338 01:28:15,409 --> 01:28:17,489 that step at on, like, high on a 2339 01:28:17,489 --> 01:28:19,515 crock pot will both drive off the ethanol 2340 01:28:19,574 --> 01:28:22,055 and decarb in the in the same step 2341 01:28:22,055 --> 01:28:22,875 more or less. 2342 01:28:24,935 --> 01:28:26,375 And and so that that can be a 2343 01:28:26,375 --> 01:28:28,614 way to kind of reduce the whole having 2344 01:28:28,614 --> 01:28:30,375 stuff in the oven. Is it decarbed? Is 2345 01:28:30,375 --> 01:28:30,989 it not? 2346 01:28:31,949 --> 01:28:34,270 Yeah. I think I wanna throw an alternative 2347 01:28:34,270 --> 01:28:35,869 in there as well because that does that 2348 01:28:35,869 --> 01:28:37,090 works very effectively. 2349 01:28:37,949 --> 01:28:38,350 I, 2350 01:28:39,470 --> 01:28:42,270 I moved into mason jars and boiling though 2351 01:28:42,270 --> 01:28:44,750 because I smelled all my terpenes in my 2352 01:28:44,750 --> 01:28:45,250 house. 2353 01:28:45,645 --> 01:28:47,404 And I'm like I'm losing all my terps. 2354 01:28:47,404 --> 01:28:49,564 And so what I moved over to was 2355 01:28:49,564 --> 01:28:50,064 putting 2356 01:28:50,684 --> 01:28:54,385 my plant material into half gallon mason jars 2357 01:28:54,444 --> 01:28:56,145 and putting them in a, 2358 01:28:56,925 --> 01:28:59,425 a big boiling crock like I do use 2359 01:28:59,590 --> 01:29:00,789 to Oh, like a canning bath. Yeah. Like 2360 01:29:00,789 --> 01:29:01,689 a canning bath. 2361 01:29:02,229 --> 01:29:02,630 And, 2362 01:29:03,189 --> 01:29:05,829 THC, you boil for an hour and novel 2363 01:29:05,829 --> 01:29:06,329 cannabinoids, 2364 01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:09,670 boil for two hours. And I get, you 2365 01:29:09,670 --> 01:29:11,530 know, above 95% 2366 01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:12,250 decarboxylation, 2367 01:29:12,789 --> 01:29:15,055 which is great. But here's the kicker, is 2368 01:29:15,055 --> 01:29:16,675 that when all of those terpenes 2369 01:29:17,135 --> 01:29:17,635 volatilize, 2370 01:29:18,175 --> 01:29:20,734 they're doing it within the closed mason jar. 2371 01:29:20,734 --> 01:29:22,255 And then when I put the mason jar 2372 01:29:22,255 --> 01:29:24,114 on my counter and it cools down, 2373 01:29:24,574 --> 01:29:27,135 those terpenes are stuck against the inside of 2374 01:29:27,135 --> 01:29:27,795 the glass. 2375 01:29:28,219 --> 01:29:30,859 And so when I add my I will 2376 01:29:30,859 --> 01:29:33,420 then eventually freeze that whole thing and then 2377 01:29:33,420 --> 01:29:36,460 when I pour my freezing ethanol over the 2378 01:29:36,460 --> 01:29:38,239 top of it after it's cooled 2379 01:29:39,020 --> 01:29:42,000 in my heart of hearts I believe that 2380 01:29:42,914 --> 01:29:45,635 those those terpenes are being pulled off the 2381 01:29:45,635 --> 01:29:47,414 glass by the ethanol 2382 01:29:48,034 --> 01:29:48,534 and, 2383 01:29:49,554 --> 01:29:50,854 remains in my RSO. 2384 01:29:51,395 --> 01:29:51,895 So 2385 01:29:52,274 --> 01:29:55,154 Makes chemical sense. It makes good. I've never 2386 01:29:55,154 --> 01:29:57,154 heard any scientific support on it, but it 2387 01:29:57,154 --> 01:29:58,860 it makes sense to me, and my test 2388 01:29:58,860 --> 01:30:00,079 results show it. So 2389 01:30:00,619 --> 01:30:02,860 Yeah. Yeah. That's actually I've never really thought 2390 01:30:02,860 --> 01:30:04,220 about doing it that way, but it makes 2391 01:30:04,220 --> 01:30:07,180 sense. I would worry more about, like, exploding 2392 01:30:07,180 --> 01:30:08,939 glass jars. But if you're doing it safely 2393 01:30:08,939 --> 01:30:09,920 in, like, a canning 2394 01:30:10,564 --> 01:30:11,064 situation, 2395 01:30:11,524 --> 01:30:13,524 it shouldn't be that dangerous. I have done 2396 01:30:13,524 --> 01:30:15,204 I have done that twice, and they were 2397 01:30:15,204 --> 01:30:17,284 both with old jars that I bought at 2398 01:30:17,284 --> 01:30:18,244 grocery store or, 2399 01:30:19,125 --> 01:30:21,064 old jars that I bought at garage sales. 2400 01:30:21,284 --> 01:30:23,859 Mhmm. So, you know, you swapping out your 2401 01:30:23,859 --> 01:30:25,859 jars occasionally will probably help with that. But, 2402 01:30:25,859 --> 01:30:27,380 oh, and there's oh, it makes you cry 2403 01:30:27,380 --> 01:30:29,539 when you suddenly see all the water and 2404 01:30:29,539 --> 01:30:31,539 and glass in the in with the in 2405 01:30:31,539 --> 01:30:32,279 the flower. 2406 01:30:33,779 --> 01:30:34,920 It's like drug abuse. 2407 01:30:36,604 --> 01:30:37,965 So let's talk about, 2408 01:30:39,005 --> 01:30:41,804 the results that we get when we're, 2409 01:30:42,204 --> 01:30:43,744 when we're working with RSO. 2410 01:30:44,444 --> 01:30:44,944 They, 2411 01:30:45,324 --> 01:30:46,864 and actually tinctures too. 2412 01:30:47,725 --> 01:30:50,630 Very often the lab results are is in 2413 01:30:50,630 --> 01:30:51,130 milligrams 2414 01:30:51,989 --> 01:30:54,010 per gram or milligrams 2415 01:30:54,630 --> 01:30:55,530 per milliliter. 2416 01:30:56,149 --> 01:30:57,130 Mhmm. And 2417 01:30:58,869 --> 01:31:02,470 and many people, including me, came to this 2418 01:31:02,470 --> 01:31:02,970 art, 2419 01:31:04,104 --> 01:31:07,385 believing that a milliliter and a gram were 2420 01:31:07,385 --> 01:31:08,845 equal to each other, 2421 01:31:09,385 --> 01:31:10,204 which is 2422 01:31:10,585 --> 01:31:13,645 kind of mostly true, but not. 2423 01:31:14,425 --> 01:31:15,164 And so 2424 01:31:16,770 --> 01:31:18,609 just for the sake of being able to 2425 01:31:18,609 --> 01:31:21,489 read these test results, would you explain that 2426 01:31:21,489 --> 01:31:23,329 for us even though in the long run, 2427 01:31:23,329 --> 01:31:25,489 it probably doesn't matter all that much, but 2428 01:31:25,489 --> 01:31:27,189 it causes so much consternation. 2429 01:31:28,289 --> 01:31:31,030 Yeah. So one milligram does equal, 2430 01:31:31,735 --> 01:31:34,055 or sorry, one gram does equal one milliliter. 2431 01:31:34,055 --> 01:31:35,275 If we're talking about water 2432 01:31:35,655 --> 01:31:36,635 because of the density, 2433 01:31:37,255 --> 01:31:39,895 but in cannabis extracts, we don't deal with 2434 01:31:39,895 --> 01:31:41,815 water because we know that cannabinoids are not 2435 01:31:41,815 --> 01:31:43,735 water soluble. So we're dealing with things like 2436 01:31:43,735 --> 01:31:45,755 coconut oil or ethanol 2437 01:31:46,659 --> 01:31:48,920 and their density is not one, 2438 01:31:49,619 --> 01:31:51,640 one to one, one gram to one milliliter. 2439 01:31:52,739 --> 01:31:55,380 Coconut oil density is about point nine two. 2440 01:31:55,380 --> 01:31:57,560 So that means it's eight to 10% 2441 01:31:57,699 --> 01:31:58,439 less dense 2442 01:31:59,545 --> 01:32:01,225 on a volume level. So that means if 2443 01:32:01,225 --> 01:32:02,284 you have one milliliter 2444 01:32:02,744 --> 01:32:04,845 of coconut oil, it'll only weigh, 2445 01:32:05,625 --> 01:32:07,864 point nine two grams. It won't weigh a 2446 01:32:07,864 --> 01:32:10,185 full one gram. But point nine two is 2447 01:32:10,185 --> 01:32:12,345 pretty close to one depending upon, you know, 2448 01:32:12,345 --> 01:32:14,789 how much you care about significant figures and 2449 01:32:14,789 --> 01:32:16,329 and dosing exactly right. 2450 01:32:16,949 --> 01:32:19,530 So your milligram per gram and milligram 2451 01:32:20,390 --> 01:32:20,890 per 2452 01:32:21,510 --> 01:32:23,750 mill are often going to be similar, but 2453 01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:27,130 not exactly the same if your carrier liquid 2454 01:32:27,270 --> 01:32:28,170 is not water. 2455 01:32:30,045 --> 01:32:32,045 How does that apply when given the very 2456 01:32:32,525 --> 01:32:34,364 Go ahead. Sorry. I just wanted to kind 2457 01:32:34,364 --> 01:32:36,204 of, like, say about, like, the variability in 2458 01:32:36,204 --> 01:32:38,864 testing and the accuracy of your measuring, 2459 01:32:39,965 --> 01:32:42,510 is probably larger than the 2460 01:32:45,949 --> 01:32:48,130 and so what is the density of, 2461 01:32:48,909 --> 01:32:51,550 cannabis oil? If if we are testing actual 2462 01:32:51,550 --> 01:32:53,010 RSO and not, 2463 01:32:54,989 --> 01:32:56,750 coconut oil or MCT or something, 2464 01:32:58,375 --> 01:32:59,194 how close 2465 01:33:00,135 --> 01:33:01,594 is cannabis resin 2466 01:33:02,454 --> 01:33:03,755 to water? 2467 01:33:05,094 --> 01:33:07,175 I believe well, and and again, this will 2468 01:33:07,175 --> 01:33:09,175 depend on how many fats and lipids and 2469 01:33:09,175 --> 01:33:11,895 chlorophyll you pulled out, but it's between point 2470 01:33:11,895 --> 01:33:14,680 nine three and point nine six. Mhmm. So, 2471 01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:17,979 again, we're wildly close where Yeah. It's We're 2472 01:33:18,199 --> 01:33:21,640 we're we're within rounding area Exactly. For for 2473 01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:22,140 patients. 2474 01:33:23,079 --> 01:33:25,880 Right. But then when you think about, like, 2475 01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:27,979 a syringe worth of RSO, 2476 01:33:29,685 --> 01:33:31,524 right, if we're I'm I'll try to keep 2477 01:33:31,524 --> 01:33:33,045 the math, like, pretty simple. But if we 2478 01:33:33,045 --> 01:33:34,824 have one milliliter syringe 2479 01:33:35,364 --> 01:33:36,904 and it's at 60%, 2480 01:33:37,764 --> 01:33:38,264 that's 2481 01:33:38,645 --> 01:33:39,864 six hundred milligrams 2482 01:33:40,164 --> 01:33:40,904 of THC 2483 01:33:41,844 --> 01:33:42,664 in one 2484 01:33:43,284 --> 01:33:43,784 milliliter. 2485 01:33:44,300 --> 01:33:46,699 So if you are able to squeeze out 2486 01:33:46,699 --> 01:33:47,199 exactly 2487 01:33:47,739 --> 01:33:49,039 point one milliliter, 2488 01:33:49,659 --> 01:33:52,060 that's great. But if you're thinking about, you 2489 01:33:52,060 --> 01:33:54,960 know, diluting that whole syringe of RSO 2490 01:33:55,340 --> 01:33:58,795 into coconut oil, and now you might have, 2491 01:34:00,695 --> 01:34:04,055 a dropper of that coconut oil that also 2492 01:34:04,055 --> 01:34:06,954 has RSO diluted in it. If that dropper, 2493 01:34:07,335 --> 01:34:08,635 say, is one milliliter 2494 01:34:09,335 --> 01:34:11,515 and you dosed it to be ten milligrams 2495 01:34:11,814 --> 01:34:12,555 per milliliter, 2496 01:34:13,030 --> 01:34:15,110 if you get one or two drops less 2497 01:34:15,110 --> 01:34:17,110 or one or two drops more than a 2498 01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:17,610 milliliter, 2499 01:34:17,989 --> 01:34:18,489 your 2500 01:34:18,869 --> 01:34:20,489 dosing is much less 2501 01:34:21,510 --> 01:34:23,989 different. Right? The difference there is maybe nine 2502 01:34:23,989 --> 01:34:27,110 milligrams or less than half full. Yeah. Yeah. 2503 01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:28,244 The difference is less. 2504 01:34:29,204 --> 01:34:30,805 And so if you really do need to 2505 01:34:30,805 --> 01:34:32,024 dial in your dosing, 2506 01:34:33,045 --> 01:34:35,045 you know, having something that's a little bit 2507 01:34:35,045 --> 01:34:35,784 more dilute 2508 01:34:36,244 --> 01:34:37,704 can help the accuracy. 2509 01:34:38,485 --> 01:34:40,564 You know, what you said there is pretty 2510 01:34:40,564 --> 01:34:41,064 radical. 2511 01:34:41,524 --> 01:34:43,829 This idea that there can be so many 2512 01:34:43,989 --> 01:34:44,489 swings 2513 01:34:46,070 --> 01:34:46,570 within 2514 01:34:47,270 --> 01:34:47,770 the, 2515 01:34:48,630 --> 01:34:50,649 within one RSO syringe. 2516 01:34:52,310 --> 01:34:54,390 I was always under the impression that those 2517 01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:56,170 syringes by the time you've, 2518 01:34:56,814 --> 01:34:58,814 you know, gotten to that point is is 2519 01:34:58,814 --> 01:34:59,715 pretty homogenized. 2520 01:35:00,814 --> 01:35:02,895 And and, you know, most people that I 2521 01:35:02,895 --> 01:35:04,814 know who make their own caps will pull 2522 01:35:04,814 --> 01:35:07,534 20 out of a syringe, you know, 20 2523 01:35:07,534 --> 01:35:08,699 o five caps. 2524 01:35:09,659 --> 01:35:11,500 And if I just if I just understood 2525 01:35:11,500 --> 01:35:14,479 you correctly, you suggested there could be a 2526 01:35:14,539 --> 01:35:15,039 five 2527 01:35:15,340 --> 01:35:17,680 milligram to twenty milligram swing 2528 01:35:18,380 --> 01:35:19,360 from nonhomogenized 2529 01:35:20,220 --> 01:35:21,280 THC cannabinoids 2530 01:35:21,659 --> 01:35:24,320 within that syringe. Is that what you said? 2531 01:35:25,074 --> 01:35:27,414 Well, I think it's more just how accurate 2532 01:35:27,474 --> 01:35:30,194 are you squeezing out that amount. Okay. That 2533 01:35:30,194 --> 01:35:32,274 I get. Right on. So if you're shooting 2534 01:35:32,274 --> 01:35:34,274 for point o five and you accidentally do 2535 01:35:34,274 --> 01:35:36,434 point o nine, well, then, yeah, that's gonna 2536 01:35:36,434 --> 01:35:38,354 be a a big difference. I see. But 2537 01:35:38,354 --> 01:35:40,319 you're not really speaking to it being not 2538 01:35:40,479 --> 01:35:40,979 homogenized. 2539 01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,899 Right. But I have seen mixtures that people 2540 01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:46,960 make at home. If they sit for a 2541 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:48,979 little while, they do separate out. 2542 01:35:49,359 --> 01:35:51,679 And so if you're storing it long term 2543 01:35:51,679 --> 01:35:52,579 in a syringe, 2544 01:35:53,215 --> 01:35:54,034 that might affect 2545 01:35:54,735 --> 01:35:56,574 the beginning of the syringe versus the end 2546 01:35:56,574 --> 01:35:58,595 of the syringe. Oh, that's interesting. 2547 01:35:59,135 --> 01:36:01,614 You know, that that can happen. So, you 2548 01:36:01,614 --> 01:36:03,614 know, if you if you are making it 2549 01:36:03,614 --> 01:36:05,760 in a syringe, putting it, you know, when 2550 01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:07,699 it's fresh and well mixed, 2551 01:36:08,319 --> 01:36:11,039 like, putting it into capsules when it's fresh 2552 01:36:11,039 --> 01:36:12,719 will help reduce that. Right? And then it's 2553 01:36:12,719 --> 01:36:14,479 already well mixed, and it doesn't have a 2554 01:36:14,479 --> 01:36:16,880 chance to separate out. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. That 2555 01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:18,255 makes that makes sense to me. 2556 01:36:19,454 --> 01:36:21,894 So while we're while we're talking about, we 2557 01:36:22,014 --> 01:36:24,335 we've been talking almost all about ethanol because, 2558 01:36:24,574 --> 01:36:26,335 that's what most people use and that's what 2559 01:36:26,335 --> 01:36:28,194 the e was the easiest. 2560 01:36:29,135 --> 01:36:31,614 I I want to use this opportunity to 2561 01:36:31,614 --> 01:36:32,699 to to tell folks 2562 01:36:33,340 --> 01:36:36,640 not that you can't do it safely enough, 2563 01:36:36,780 --> 01:36:38,960 and and we all know you're a badass, 2564 01:36:39,500 --> 01:36:43,520 but really, really don't do open blasting BHO 2565 01:36:43,659 --> 01:36:45,280 if you can avoid it. Because, 2566 01:36:46,335 --> 01:36:49,454 for all the advantages that BHO may have 2567 01:36:49,454 --> 01:36:51,715 over ethanol, and I know that's debatable, 2568 01:36:52,734 --> 01:36:53,555 open blasting 2569 01:36:53,935 --> 01:36:56,515 continues to be one of the most dangerous 2570 01:36:56,734 --> 01:36:57,234 things 2571 01:36:57,854 --> 01:36:58,175 that, 2572 01:36:58,734 --> 01:37:00,175 cannabis folks can do, 2573 01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:02,139 you know, 2574 01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:04,840 other Absolutely. Yeah. I was gonna make a 2575 01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:07,000 joke about dabbing with a torch. But but, 2576 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:08,779 honestly, BHO is far 2577 01:37:09,319 --> 01:37:11,960 more dangerous than that because Yes. Dabbing will 2578 01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:14,039 give you a scar or might lay lay 2579 01:37:14,039 --> 01:37:16,279 your mat on fire. But but a BHO 2580 01:37:16,279 --> 01:37:18,215 might lay lay your house on fire. So 2581 01:37:18,454 --> 01:37:19,594 Yeah. It's an explosion. 2582 01:37:20,135 --> 01:37:21,734 Yeah. I mean, I'm a chemist who likes 2583 01:37:21,734 --> 01:37:23,255 to do fun chemistry things, and I would 2584 01:37:23,255 --> 01:37:24,554 not mess around with that. 2585 01:37:25,014 --> 01:37:27,494 There you go. Especially since, you know, I'm 2586 01:37:27,494 --> 01:37:30,234 finding that the materials that we make from 2587 01:37:30,295 --> 01:37:31,354 from rosin 2588 01:37:31,734 --> 01:37:33,890 are just they're it's just such a superior 2589 01:37:34,109 --> 01:37:37,310 product now as far as medical efficacy and 2590 01:37:37,310 --> 01:37:40,270 use. And and, I mean, creating it is 2591 01:37:40,270 --> 01:37:41,329 downright ambient. 2592 01:37:42,989 --> 01:37:44,590 It just seems you know, if you're not 2593 01:37:44,590 --> 01:37:46,130 gonna go with ethanol, 2594 01:37:46,774 --> 01:37:48,935 the the types of edibles that you can 2595 01:37:48,935 --> 01:37:51,255 make with rosin are just such high quality 2596 01:37:51,255 --> 01:37:53,435 and, honestly, way better than RSO, 2597 01:37:54,774 --> 01:37:56,454 edibles as well because they don't they don't 2598 01:37:56,454 --> 01:37:57,435 taste like dirt. 2599 01:37:57,814 --> 01:37:59,034 Absolutely. Yep. 2600 01:38:00,295 --> 01:38:02,179 Yeah. And I think that, you know, there's 2601 01:38:02,179 --> 01:38:03,159 a place for 2602 01:38:03,460 --> 01:38:05,079 coconut oil extracts 2603 01:38:05,619 --> 01:38:06,119 itself. 2604 01:38:07,300 --> 01:38:08,920 You know, there's there's a place for 2605 01:38:09,380 --> 01:38:11,859 leaving a lot of ethanol in and mixing 2606 01:38:11,859 --> 01:38:14,739 it with glycerin potentially rather than evaporating all 2607 01:38:14,739 --> 01:38:17,434 the ethanol off. Like, there's some mixtures in 2608 01:38:17,434 --> 01:38:19,835 there that can be fine as well and 2609 01:38:19,835 --> 01:38:21,375 actually help the solubility, 2610 01:38:22,474 --> 01:38:23,835 of some of your molecules. If you don't 2611 01:38:23,835 --> 01:38:25,835 want to ingest a ton of coconut oil 2612 01:38:25,835 --> 01:38:26,954 or ingest, 2613 01:38:27,274 --> 01:38:29,034 you know, a bunch of butter or something, 2614 01:38:29,034 --> 01:38:31,109 there's other routes. Right 2615 01:38:31,409 --> 01:38:33,649 on. So so let's wrap up with this 2616 01:38:33,649 --> 01:38:34,149 question, 2617 01:38:34,850 --> 01:38:37,270 kinda hand you the mic here and say, 2618 01:38:37,409 --> 01:38:39,250 you know, there there are there are lots 2619 01:38:39,250 --> 01:38:41,649 of patients who are listening to you. And 2620 01:38:41,649 --> 01:38:43,569 some of them have worked with labs and 2621 01:38:43,569 --> 01:38:44,710 some of them haven't, 2622 01:38:45,784 --> 01:38:49,005 but everybody is suffering and they are 2623 01:38:50,185 --> 01:38:52,585 looking to either increase their quality of the 2624 01:38:52,585 --> 01:38:55,625 relationship with their lab or just like get 2625 01:38:55,625 --> 01:38:57,404 into making their own medicine. 2626 01:38:58,264 --> 01:39:00,125 What words of encouragement 2627 01:39:01,039 --> 01:39:02,979 would you offer as a chemist 2628 01:39:03,359 --> 01:39:04,659 who cares about 2629 01:39:05,039 --> 01:39:06,579 medical cannabis patients 2630 01:39:07,119 --> 01:39:07,619 to 2631 01:39:08,079 --> 01:39:10,180 encourage them to take control 2632 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:12,739 of of their own self sufficiency 2633 01:39:14,314 --> 01:39:16,235 Yeah. I mean, one of the things that's 2634 01:39:16,235 --> 01:39:18,814 really great about cannabis, I mean, there's obviously 2635 01:39:18,875 --> 01:39:19,354 lots, 2636 01:39:20,074 --> 01:39:21,454 is that you can't 2637 01:39:21,755 --> 01:39:24,074 really mess it up too bad to a 2638 01:39:24,074 --> 01:39:25,055 dangerous degree. 2639 01:39:25,550 --> 01:39:27,789 Right? You can have too much and have 2640 01:39:27,789 --> 01:39:29,630 an anxiety attack and not have a fun 2641 01:39:29,630 --> 01:39:31,890 time. But at the end of the day, 2642 01:39:32,109 --> 01:39:34,430 it's not generally very dangerous if you're in 2643 01:39:34,430 --> 01:39:35,170 a safe place. 2644 01:39:35,710 --> 01:39:38,029 So that's one thing is that, you know, 2645 01:39:38,029 --> 01:39:40,585 you're not probably gonna make a mixture in 2646 01:39:40,585 --> 01:39:41,645 the end that's unsafe, 2647 01:39:43,145 --> 01:39:44,284 to to ingest. 2648 01:39:45,625 --> 01:39:47,864 And I think the other thing is, like, 2649 01:39:47,864 --> 01:39:49,864 don't be afraid of the math. I know 2650 01:39:49,864 --> 01:39:52,445 math is intimidating to people and doing dilutions 2651 01:39:52,505 --> 01:39:54,905 and mixtures and stuff without a recipe can 2652 01:39:54,905 --> 01:39:55,405 be 2653 01:39:55,789 --> 01:39:58,110 intimidating. But, you know, you were saying, I'm 2654 01:39:58,110 --> 01:39:59,550 not a fan of shaggy p t, but 2655 01:39:59,550 --> 01:40:01,390 you were telling me earlier that that's really 2656 01:40:01,390 --> 01:40:03,070 been helpful for you to do math. That's 2657 01:40:03,070 --> 01:40:05,229 great. If that works for you, great. Mhmm. 2658 01:40:05,630 --> 01:40:07,710 You know, there are find a science friend 2659 01:40:07,710 --> 01:40:10,125 who's, you know, decent at math. It has 2660 01:40:10,125 --> 01:40:11,824 set you up a little Excel spreadsheet, 2661 01:40:12,524 --> 01:40:13,904 to plug in your numbers, 2662 01:40:14,284 --> 01:40:15,885 and come out with an answer that you 2663 01:40:15,885 --> 01:40:17,804 can feel confident about. 2664 01:40:18,524 --> 01:40:20,045 And don't be afraid to call the lab 2665 01:40:20,045 --> 01:40:22,284 and just clarify the, the units, right? If 2666 01:40:22,284 --> 01:40:25,090 you're confused about the results and wanna make 2667 01:40:25,090 --> 01:40:27,270 sure you understand the numbers in the units, 2668 01:40:27,489 --> 01:40:29,649 that's fine. The lab is happy to explain 2669 01:40:29,649 --> 01:40:31,890 the units to you. But they're not gonna 2670 01:40:31,890 --> 01:40:33,409 be able to, you know, tell you how 2671 01:40:33,409 --> 01:40:35,590 to make a better tincture next time necessarily. 2672 01:40:38,064 --> 01:40:38,885 So yeah, 2673 01:40:39,505 --> 01:40:42,304 I think that, you know, one of the 2674 01:40:42,304 --> 01:40:44,944 reasons I like working in the cannabis science 2675 01:40:44,944 --> 01:40:47,125 realm is that there's so many opportunities 2676 01:40:47,505 --> 01:40:50,385 for people to innovate and improve and treat 2677 01:40:50,385 --> 01:40:50,885 themselves 2678 01:40:51,425 --> 01:40:53,364 in safe ways and effective ways 2679 01:40:53,850 --> 01:40:56,170 that medicine has has kind of forgotten about 2680 01:40:56,170 --> 01:40:58,750 or has specifically excluded 2681 01:40:59,210 --> 01:41:02,189 a lot of populations that utilize cannabis successfully, 2682 01:41:03,449 --> 01:41:05,850 that, you know, find find your group of 2683 01:41:05,850 --> 01:41:08,489 folks either online or in person and and 2684 01:41:08,489 --> 01:41:09,465 learn from each other. 2685 01:41:10,425 --> 01:41:12,925 Fabulous. That that is great. You know, especially, 2686 01:41:12,984 --> 01:41:16,344 you know, medical cannabis communities, you know, patient 2687 01:41:16,344 --> 01:41:17,324 outreach groups, 2688 01:41:18,185 --> 01:41:20,284 pull together people like we do on Vashon 2689 01:41:20,585 --> 01:41:22,505 and and, you know, teach each other. Each 2690 01:41:22,505 --> 01:41:23,804 one teach one. Right? 2691 01:41:24,170 --> 01:41:27,449 Self sufficiency in cannabis medicine and personalized medicine 2692 01:41:27,449 --> 01:41:28,270 is so important. 2693 01:41:28,970 --> 01:41:30,570 Thank you for that, Amber. And thank you 2694 01:41:30,570 --> 01:41:32,810 for spending your time with us today. You 2695 01:41:32,810 --> 01:41:34,350 know, I know that you are taking, 2696 01:41:34,890 --> 01:41:36,909 time out of your out of your workday, 2697 01:41:36,970 --> 01:41:38,829 and I know that your time is valuable. 2698 01:41:39,105 --> 01:41:41,744 And so thank you. And and, honestly, most 2699 01:41:41,744 --> 01:41:43,185 of these people who are listening will never 2700 01:41:43,185 --> 01:41:45,664 be customers of yours. And so so thank 2701 01:41:45,664 --> 01:41:48,225 you. Okay. Thank you. Because I know I 2702 01:41:48,225 --> 01:41:49,824 know your heart is in this, and and 2703 01:41:49,824 --> 01:41:51,505 that's what I wanna thank you for. So 2704 01:41:51,505 --> 01:41:53,185 so thank you for all of your insight 2705 01:41:53,185 --> 01:41:55,069 and your time and your passion. 2706 01:41:55,449 --> 01:41:57,529 Yeah. Absolutely. I'm happy. I know there's a 2707 01:41:57,529 --> 01:41:59,449 lot of information out there, and it's hard 2708 01:41:59,449 --> 01:42:00,750 to know what 2709 01:42:01,289 --> 01:42:03,369 and I really do try to stick to 2710 01:42:03,369 --> 01:42:04,029 the science. 2711 01:42:05,050 --> 01:42:07,449 And I like to make sure that people 2712 01:42:07,449 --> 01:42:09,522 have all the correct information and not a 2713 01:42:09,522 --> 01:42:11,835 bunch of hearsay. Amen. That's the whole reason 2714 01:42:11,835 --> 01:42:13,135 shaping fire is here. 2715 01:42:13,514 --> 01:42:16,574 So alright. So, in wrapping up, dear listener, 2716 01:42:17,354 --> 01:42:18,875 a couple things. Number one, 2717 01:42:19,354 --> 01:42:21,594 if you want to get a quick link 2718 01:42:21,594 --> 01:42:22,734 to a cuette, 2719 01:42:23,060 --> 01:42:24,760 quick wash ethanol tincture, 2720 01:42:25,460 --> 01:42:27,539 I will put one on the, 2721 01:42:28,100 --> 01:42:31,699 on the, website page at shapingfire.com 2722 01:42:31,699 --> 01:42:34,279 for this episode number one twenty four. 2723 01:42:34,819 --> 01:42:37,779 Also, if you are interested in reaching out 2724 01:42:37,779 --> 01:42:37,859 to, 2725 01:42:39,114 --> 01:42:40,895 Amber Wise, PhD, first 2726 01:42:41,435 --> 01:42:42,015 of all, 2727 01:42:42,795 --> 01:42:44,734 she's super busy. And so 2728 01:42:45,034 --> 01:42:46,954 if you do want to reach out, you 2729 01:42:46,954 --> 01:42:48,715 can reach out or you can just follow 2730 01:42:48,715 --> 01:42:50,074 her if you want to go know what's 2731 01:42:50,074 --> 01:42:50,975 going on with her 2732 01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,319 various research and public talks and stuff, at 2733 01:42:54,319 --> 01:42:55,859 her LinkedIn profile. 2734 01:42:56,319 --> 01:42:57,039 But but, 2735 01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:00,159 don't be looking for Amber to be giving 2736 01:43:00,159 --> 01:43:00,659 you, 2737 01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:02,420 you know, specific, 2738 01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:05,175 feedback on what you're working on. That's that's 2739 01:43:05,175 --> 01:43:06,694 not the role that she plays in our 2740 01:43:06,694 --> 01:43:09,414 community. So so find somebody else and and 2741 01:43:09,414 --> 01:43:11,175 and and and do that there. But, you 2742 01:43:11,175 --> 01:43:13,114 know, if you have if you have opportunities 2743 01:43:13,335 --> 01:43:15,175 or or just, you know, you wanna send 2744 01:43:15,175 --> 01:43:16,954 a a fan letter of thanks or something, 2745 01:43:17,335 --> 01:43:18,854 by all means, you can do that at, 2746 01:43:19,175 --> 01:43:21,020 Amber Wise, on LinkedIn. 2747 01:43:22,199 --> 01:43:23,960 You can find more episodes of the Shaping 2748 01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:26,039 Fire podcast and subscribe to the show at 2749 01:43:26,039 --> 01:43:27,319 shapingfire.com 2750 01:43:27,319 --> 01:43:28,859 and wherever you get your podcasts. 2751 01:43:29,319 --> 01:43:31,079 If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate 2752 01:43:31,079 --> 01:43:32,520 it if you would leave a positive review 2753 01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:34,380 of the podcast wherever you download. 2754 01:43:34,815 --> 01:43:36,735 Your review will help others find the show 2755 01:43:36,735 --> 01:43:38,735 so they can enjoy it too. On the 2756 01:43:38,735 --> 01:43:40,975 Shaping Fire website, you can also subscribe to 2757 01:43:40,975 --> 01:43:43,534 the newsletter for insights into the latest cannabis 2758 01:43:43,534 --> 01:43:45,795 news, exclusive videos, and giveaways. 2759 01:43:46,335 --> 01:43:48,095 On the Shaping Fire website, you will also 2760 01:43:48,095 --> 01:43:51,000 find transcripts of today's podcast as well. Be 2761 01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:53,079 sure to follow on Instagram for all original 2762 01:43:53,079 --> 01:43:54,859 content not found on the podcast. 2763 01:43:55,239 --> 01:43:58,039 That's at shaping fire and at shango lows 2764 01:43:58,039 --> 01:43:58,779 on Instagram. 2765 01:43:59,079 --> 01:44:00,680 Be sure to check out the Shaping Fire 2766 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:03,399 YouTube channel for exclusive interviews, farm tours, and 2767 01:44:03,399 --> 01:44:04,300 cannabis lectures. 2768 01:44:04,774 --> 01:44:07,014 Does your company wanna reach our national audience 2769 01:44:07,014 --> 01:44:08,234 of cannabis enthusiasts? 2770 01:44:08,774 --> 01:44:11,175 Email hotspot@shapingfire.com 2771 01:44:11,175 --> 01:44:13,255 to find out how. Thanks for listening to 2772 01:44:13,255 --> 01:44:16,395 Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.