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When we take a toke of cannabis smoke

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or vapor,

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we can feel it in our lungs.

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Our lungs are very efficient in swooping up

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cannabinoids and plugging them into our bloodstream to

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be distributed around the body.

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This inhalation begins a cascade of bodily reactions

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throughout us.

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Most of us take them for granted nowadays.

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These reactions happen all over our body in

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subtle ways and significant ways.

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Some are medical, some are funny.

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In all our ways, our body is rebalancing

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itself in the presence of phytocannabinoids.

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Today, we're going to take a look at

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the human systems that fire up in the

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first few minutes of using cannabis.

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If you want to learn about cannabis health,

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cultivation, and technique efficiently and with good cheer,

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If you like what we do and wanna

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put something in the tip jar, you can

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at Shango Los.

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You are listening to Shaping Fire and I

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am your host, Shango Los. Welcome to episode

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123.

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My guest today is doctor Elizabeth Thompson.

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Doctor Thompson holds a PhD in pharmacy emphasizing

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cannabinoid pharmacology,

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a master's in clinical physiology,

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and a BS with honors in microbiology and

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genetics.

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Her current research focus investigates the various roles

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of cannabinoid molecules in elite contact sport athlete

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populations.

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Currently, doctor Thompson is a member of the

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groundbreaking research team partially funded by the NFL

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to investigate the use of cannabinoids to reduce

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brain and neuroinflammation

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caused by concussions.

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Today's episode is about the first five minutes

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after smoking cannabis.

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During the first set, we will talk about

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inhalation,

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the respiratory system, taking and holding big hits,

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bronchiolilation

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and asthma, and the changes to your cardiovascular

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system, vestibular

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dysfunction,

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bloodshot eyes and blood pressure changes.

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During the second set, we focus on the

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endocannabinoid

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system and nervous systems,

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binding to CB1 receptors,

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the biphasic nature of cannabinoids in the body

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and how to use CBD more realistically and

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effectively.

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We also look at psychological states and mood

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generally right after you talk. And we will

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look at changes in your coordination too and

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look at why sometimes cannabis make us perform

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better and sometimes it makes us perform worse.

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And we wrap up the third set talking

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about edibles and how our body changes delta

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nine THC

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into 11 hydroxy THC and why that makes

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edibles truly a different drug than inhalation.

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We will also talk the importance of rectal

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and vaginal suppositories

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and the process they go through when inserted

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into your human.

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All today on ShapingFire 123.

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Welcome to ShapingFire, Doctor. Thompson.

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Hey, Shango. How are you today? So great.

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So good. And really glad that you're able

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to join us.

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Congratulations

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on your, recent successful

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PhD. We're we're all proud of you and

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and happy to have another, strong cannabinoid researcher

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in the mix as you.

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Thank you so much. And I will tell

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you a really quick story, but the very

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first person that I ever heard that piqued

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my interest in cannabinoid pharmacology was actually on

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your show. And it was, doctor Meeabi Shields,

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who is one of my favorite humans ever,

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but it was actually on your show, I

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think, maybe six or six or seven years

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ago.

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Fantastic. Oh, I I I love those episodes

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with Miyabi Shields as well,

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especially all the biomechanics,

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which makes sense since that's the same reason

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you're here today as well. So yeah. So,

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shout out to doctor Miyabi Shields. So thank

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you for that. Yep. So,

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so let's see. So first of all, let's,

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let's let's remind folks from the intro that

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the episode today is about the physiological

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reactions that the body makes when consuming cannabis

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in the first five or ten minutes after

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talking. And we'll talk about edibles and suppositories

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in the third set. So we're we're we're

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mostly assuming that we're talking about inhalation since

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that's what most folks,

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how most folks use cannabis.

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And, and I think this is a good

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point that we talk about individualized

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medicine. And and I'm sure you run into

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this all the time, Liz, that that that

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just because we're talking about bodies generally

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does not describe anybody's

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body in part in in specific. And so

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so even though we're talking about these these

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ways that the bodies can act or generally

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act, that that people's bodies are unique and

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and for us not to assume that it's

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the same answer for everybody. Right?

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Yeah. Absolutely. And, actually, I cannot think of

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a space

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that that applies to stronger than cannabinoids and

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cannabinoid pharmacology because

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when we're looking at and this is why

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I really love this. I'm a physiologist. My

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master's degree was in physiology. And so I'm

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a really big nerd on molecular mechanisms and

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systems and stuff. And, you know, when you're

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looking at

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humans and you're looking at invoking any kind

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of change, I always compare it to the

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seed in the soil. Right? You can have

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a plant seed. And depending on what kind

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of soil you're plopping it into, that seed's

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either gonna grow, or it's gonna grow funny,

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or it's gonna die, you know, depending. And

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so for me, I look at a human

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body as like the soil. Right? All these

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soils are different, and how things

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play in that soil is super individualized. And

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the endocannabinoid system is incredible

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neurophysiological

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system that I love so much.

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And, you know, pharmacologically,

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when we are looking at how these molecules

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work,

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there are some there are definitely some generalizations.

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But, really, the biggest generalization is that everybody

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is unique for sure.

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Good. So so I will be asking you

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some questions today that may

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seem unfair, like some why questions. Right? And

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why is always really hard in science. I

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know. I know. But but since you have

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got this, like, you've got a real gift

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for translating,

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some of this hard science into, you know,

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usable stuff for layman, which is one of

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the reasons why I invited you on the

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show.

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So so when I ask you some of

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these why questions,

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first of all, I encourage you to indulge

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me. But then also, you know, feel free

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to, you know, put the science together into,

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you know, some storytelling that you think makes

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sense.

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I just wanna call that out in advance

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because I know that the why questions are

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kinda unfair to ask a scientist. But but

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in this in this in this realm, I

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hope you just roll with me.

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Okay. For sure, I will. And, actually, as

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a physiologist, I love the why questions because

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it kind of, you know, especially again in

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in pharmacology,

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a lot of medicines, we don't look at

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the why. We're just trying to cause we're

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covering a symptom with a medicine, and we're

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not asking the right question. The question is,

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why is that symptom happening? The symptom isn't

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the problem. The symptom is the result of

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a problem. So why is that symptom happening?

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And that is true physiology is you're going

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upstream to find

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why is there a problem. And so, yeah,

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I I I might not be able to

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answer all of your whys, but I will

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try my best.

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Excellent. Alright. Well, then, I guess, let's start

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going, like, downstream

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from from the the moment that, that the

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cannabis enthusiast,

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takes a hit from their, pipe or bong

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or or whatever.

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The first thing that happens is that they

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are inhaling

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into their lungs. Now I've got a handful

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of specific

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specific

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questions, but would you just give us, like,

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a a a brief explanation of the of

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the next couple steps? They they inhale and

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what happens? Physiologically.

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Yep. For sure. So when you inhale, you're

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inhaling,

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just the same the exact same thing happens

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as if you were just inhaling normal air,

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but now you're inhaling air that contains cannabinoid

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molecules. And so when you inhale air, you

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have to think of your lungs kind of

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like a tree. It's an upside down tree.

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So you have, you know, you have your

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oxygen intake is coming in, and it's traveling

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through your nose and your mouth. And then

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it's going through the big thing that looks

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like a trunk, your bronchi, and then it's

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going down into smaller, smaller branches. And at

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the very end of those branches are alveoli,

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which are essentially the leaves. And in those

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little things, the little alveoli kinda look like

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balloons. That's where your oxygen is gonna exchange

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with carbon dioxide. So in a normal breath,

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without cannabinoids, you're bringing in oxygen. So when

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you inhale, and then when you exhale, you're

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breathing out carbon dioxide.

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Now when you're inhaling,

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you're taking a toque with your air is

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coming in the cannabinoids. And so that same

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exchange is happening, but with the oxygen, it's

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going in the cannabinoids. And it's gonna go

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to the same place. It's gonna cross your

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lung,

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barrier right into your circulation system, and it's

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gonna start circulating just the same way oxygen

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would. It's gonna roll through your circulatory system,

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and it's gonna go right up into your

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brain, and it's gonna go into all the

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tissues and all the other places in your

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peripheral circulation as well. So it's kinda like

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a ride. That's the best explanation I've ever

269
00:09:42,049 --> 00:09:43,769
heard. Thank you for that. You know, one

270
00:09:43,769 --> 00:09:45,269
of one of the things that always

271
00:09:45,809 --> 00:09:48,370
is remarkable to me is how fast it

272
00:09:48,370 --> 00:09:50,850
happens. Like, you know, in in medical cannabis,

273
00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:52,690
we talk a lot about, you know, the

274
00:09:52,690 --> 00:09:55,375
various ways to use cannabis for different types

275
00:09:55,375 --> 00:09:57,855
of ailments. And and we always talk about,

276
00:09:57,855 --> 00:10:01,695
well, inhalation is the fastest onset because the

277
00:10:01,695 --> 00:10:04,415
time from inhalation hitting the lungs into the

278
00:10:04,415 --> 00:10:07,075
bloodstream, into the brain taking action

279
00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:10,320
is is so short. You know, like like,

280
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,240
literally, you know, can be as little as

281
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,700
ten seconds in some cases,

282
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:14,820
so fast.

283
00:10:15,279 --> 00:10:15,779
And,

284
00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:20,659
the lungs must just be so efficient

285
00:10:21,174 --> 00:10:23,735
to be able to take in cannabinoids at

286
00:10:23,735 --> 00:10:25,915
the same rate that we take in oxygen.

287
00:10:26,695 --> 00:10:28,535
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and also it depends

288
00:10:28,535 --> 00:10:30,215
on your blood volume or on your so

289
00:10:30,215 --> 00:10:32,295
your lung volume. Right? So how big your

290
00:10:32,295 --> 00:10:34,500
lungs are. So I specifically work with athletes

291
00:10:34,580 --> 00:10:36,659
and some of them have incredible lung volumes.

292
00:10:36,659 --> 00:10:38,740
And so those are the things that even,

293
00:10:38,740 --> 00:10:40,980
you know, the generalizations of inhalation are one

294
00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:42,419
thing. But when you start getting into the

295
00:10:42,419 --> 00:10:45,379
specifics of each individual human, you know, some

296
00:10:45,379 --> 00:10:47,220
of these guys that are trained, their lung

297
00:10:47,220 --> 00:10:48,220
capacities are amazing. And so the amount of

298
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:48,419
air that they can potentially take in,

299
00:10:51,995 --> 00:10:53,995
you know, expanding the lungs. And then you

300
00:10:53,995 --> 00:10:56,154
have sensors when your lungs expand that do

301
00:10:56,154 --> 00:10:57,214
all kinds of things.

302
00:10:57,674 --> 00:11:00,414
And so, yeah, it's it is incredible, actually.

303
00:11:00,554 --> 00:11:01,914
But you would think of it the same

304
00:11:01,914 --> 00:11:03,754
way that you think of oxygen. Right? We

305
00:11:03,754 --> 00:11:05,615
need oxygen immediately and

306
00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:08,449
to be sustained also in order to live.

307
00:11:08,449 --> 00:11:10,690
And so it's really riding the same wave

308
00:11:10,690 --> 00:11:13,169
as normal oxygen would be. So anywhere oxygen's

309
00:11:13,169 --> 00:11:15,889
going, that's essentially where your cannabinoid molecules are

310
00:11:15,889 --> 00:11:18,610
gonna roll into as well. Cannabinoid molecules are

311
00:11:18,610 --> 00:11:20,365
lipid based molecules, so they are going to

312
00:11:20,365 --> 00:11:22,285
get into the fatty tissue. But that's one

313
00:11:22,285 --> 00:11:24,285
of the advantages of it as far as

314
00:11:24,285 --> 00:11:26,365
when, again, one of my main focuses is

315
00:11:26,365 --> 00:11:29,164
on concussion. And so because cannabinoids are lipid

316
00:11:29,164 --> 00:11:29,985
based molecules,

317
00:11:30,285 --> 00:11:32,370
and your brain is made of fat, that's

318
00:11:32,370 --> 00:11:34,049
actually an advantage to us to be able

319
00:11:34,049 --> 00:11:36,129
to get that in up into the brain

320
00:11:36,129 --> 00:11:37,649
and where we need it to function. And

321
00:11:37,649 --> 00:11:40,149
so when we're looking at head trauma,

322
00:11:40,529 --> 00:11:42,690
you would think, okay, you know, if somebody

323
00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:44,289
got smashed in the head and there and

324
00:11:44,289 --> 00:11:46,549
there are different applications, you know, different administration

325
00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:49,465
routes for cannabinoids have different advantages. And the

326
00:11:49,465 --> 00:11:49,965
advantage

327
00:11:50,345 --> 00:11:53,065
or the disadvantage, depending on the context of

328
00:11:53,065 --> 00:11:55,384
inhalation is that it's fast. And so if

329
00:11:55,384 --> 00:11:58,185
you have a, you know, potential concussion, and

330
00:11:58,185 --> 00:12:00,264
you have massive neuro inflammation happening in your

331
00:12:00,264 --> 00:12:02,720
brain, and you inhale, you can immediately get

332
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,879
those cannabinoid molecules right up into your brain,

333
00:12:04,879 --> 00:12:06,319
and that's what you wanna do. You want

334
00:12:06,319 --> 00:12:08,079
it to be fast. Now if you are

335
00:12:08,079 --> 00:12:09,860
somebody that had something like, say,

336
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,039
arthritis that is more of a slow burning

337
00:12:13,039 --> 00:12:13,539
pain,

338
00:12:13,884 --> 00:12:16,444
well, inhaling because inhaling is fast on, fast

339
00:12:16,444 --> 00:12:18,204
off. Right? So that might not be the

340
00:12:18,204 --> 00:12:21,485
best administration route for something like arthritis because

341
00:12:21,485 --> 00:12:23,084
you want to be able to have a

342
00:12:23,084 --> 00:12:24,544
sustained pain reduction,

343
00:12:25,164 --> 00:12:27,570
say, overnight. Well, that would be someplace where

344
00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:30,309
maybe an oral tincture or potentially an edible

345
00:12:30,929 --> 00:12:33,090
that has a slower onset, but it also

346
00:12:33,090 --> 00:12:35,169
has a slower offset. And so, you know,

347
00:12:35,169 --> 00:12:37,330
in pharmacology, we can look at what what

348
00:12:37,330 --> 00:12:39,090
are we after? What are we trying to

349
00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:41,404
do? And then look at the different administration

350
00:12:41,465 --> 00:12:42,745
routes to see if that's going to be

351
00:12:42,745 --> 00:12:44,904
an advantage for us. And inhalation is definitely

352
00:12:44,904 --> 00:12:46,924
an advantage potentially for concussion.

353
00:12:47,625 --> 00:12:50,605
And also, you know, migraine, headache, acute pain,

354
00:12:50,825 --> 00:12:53,085
things that are things that need immediate,

355
00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:55,920
like, to be immediately addressed. So,

356
00:12:56,379 --> 00:12:58,460
I think the biggest thing in cannabinoid farm

357
00:12:58,540 --> 00:13:00,700
like, cannabinoid pharmacology or anything to do with

358
00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:02,620
cannabinoids, and my own kids wanna slap me

359
00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:03,980
when I say this because they ask a

360
00:13:03,980 --> 00:13:07,065
question, and I always say context matters. Mhmm.

361
00:13:07,065 --> 00:13:09,465
Like, you cannot paint this with a broad

362
00:13:09,465 --> 00:13:12,365
brushstroke because the context of what you're asking

363
00:13:12,585 --> 00:13:13,085
matters.

364
00:13:13,465 --> 00:13:15,705
So, you know, what cannabinoid are you using?

365
00:13:15,705 --> 00:13:17,705
What is the human you're looking at? And

366
00:13:17,705 --> 00:13:19,649
and so I think that's one thing and

367
00:13:19,649 --> 00:13:21,889
this is completely off topic, but I am

368
00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:23,330
gonna say it because I don't feel like

369
00:13:23,330 --> 00:13:25,590
I'd be a responsible scientist if I didn't,

370
00:13:25,889 --> 00:13:27,809
that I think right now in the space

371
00:13:27,809 --> 00:13:29,350
of cannabinoid science,

372
00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:31,274
as scientists and researchers and

373
00:13:41,754 --> 00:13:42,415
quote, unquote,

374
00:13:42,795 --> 00:13:45,929
cannabis is 500 different bioactive molecules. And and

375
00:13:45,929 --> 00:13:48,250
they're all different, right? So when somebody says,

376
00:13:48,250 --> 00:13:50,329
Well, what does cannabis do? Okay, well, are

377
00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:52,250
you talking about THC? Or are you talking

378
00:13:52,250 --> 00:13:54,750
about CBD? Or are you talking about CBG?

379
00:13:54,809 --> 00:13:56,970
What are you talking about? Because they all

380
00:13:56,970 --> 00:13:59,054
do different things, right? So I think we

381
00:13:59,054 --> 00:14:01,375
really need to focus on the the context

382
00:14:01,375 --> 00:14:02,975
of what we're saying. And then the flip

383
00:14:02,975 --> 00:14:05,475
side, you have media that are sensationalizing

384
00:14:05,934 --> 00:14:08,495
headlines, and they're saying, you know, cannabis causes

385
00:14:08,495 --> 00:14:12,059
heart attacks. Okay. Well, that's not necessarily true.

386
00:14:12,059 --> 00:14:14,220
What in cannabis are you talking about? Are

387
00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:16,220
you talking about a synthetic cannabinoid? Are you

388
00:14:16,220 --> 00:14:19,259
talking about THC? CBD doesn't cause heart problems.

389
00:14:19,259 --> 00:14:21,179
Like, it's so you know, I think we

390
00:14:21,179 --> 00:14:24,299
have to be really careful and be more

391
00:14:24,299 --> 00:14:27,785
specific. And also with the patient population or

392
00:14:27,785 --> 00:14:30,184
even the data sample that we're working on,

393
00:14:30,184 --> 00:14:32,264
when we come up with data, I'm focusing

394
00:14:32,264 --> 00:14:35,305
on athletes. My data pertains to athletes. They

395
00:14:35,305 --> 00:14:37,465
are high performers. They are not sick. They

396
00:14:37,465 --> 00:14:39,485
are people that have a different body

397
00:14:39,950 --> 00:14:42,190
mass. You you know, they have their body

398
00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:44,990
mass index has high muscle, low fat, lots

399
00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:47,629
of circulatory benefits. That is not the same

400
00:14:47,629 --> 00:14:50,830
as somebody who is extremely overweight, who is

401
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:51,330
injured,

402
00:14:52,029 --> 00:14:54,414
who has other pathological problems. And so I

403
00:14:54,414 --> 00:14:55,875
think we have to be really careful

404
00:14:56,334 --> 00:14:58,254
when we're talking about what data is out

405
00:14:58,254 --> 00:14:58,754
there

406
00:14:59,214 --> 00:15:02,174
to be sure about what we're looking at

407
00:15:02,174 --> 00:15:04,414
and how we're interpreting it. And and same

408
00:15:04,414 --> 00:15:06,254
thing, you know, when it goes for the

409
00:15:06,254 --> 00:15:06,754
brain,

410
00:15:07,054 --> 00:15:09,475
an example I'll often use, you know, when

411
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:12,730
people can't really differentiate between,

412
00:15:13,029 --> 00:15:14,970
they have a hard time, I think, publicly

413
00:15:15,669 --> 00:15:18,389
wrapping their head around how even an inhaled,

414
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:20,149
you know, an inhaled product. So we're talking

415
00:15:20,149 --> 00:15:21,830
about inhalation, I did get off path here.

416
00:15:21,830 --> 00:15:22,304
But

417
00:15:22,705 --> 00:15:24,225
what are we talking about? You know, if

418
00:15:24,225 --> 00:15:24,945
you have an,

419
00:15:25,504 --> 00:15:27,504
somebody that's had a concussion, right, this brain

420
00:15:27,504 --> 00:15:30,884
is massively inflamed. So inhaling good idea,

421
00:15:31,264 --> 00:15:31,764
versus

422
00:15:32,544 --> 00:15:34,625
an adolescent child that has,

423
00:15:35,105 --> 00:15:36,816
their brain is developing, they don't have any

424
00:15:36,816 --> 00:15:38,320
inflammation, they don't have any inflammation. They don't

425
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,500
have any reason to be looking to change

426
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:42,659
and alter their endocannabinoid system.

427
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,519
Those two brains are not the same. You

428
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:47,759
know? Those are two very different contexts that

429
00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:49,279
we're looking at. How are we gonna use

430
00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:51,144
these cannabinoids and why? And And I just

431
00:15:51,144 --> 00:15:52,904
feel like we need to now because we

432
00:15:52,904 --> 00:15:55,225
are putting out more data, and the media

433
00:15:55,225 --> 00:15:56,664
is starting to hop on all these, you

434
00:15:56,664 --> 00:15:57,404
know, sensationalized,

435
00:15:59,304 --> 00:16:01,964
titles, you know, for clickbait or whatever. And

436
00:16:02,024 --> 00:16:05,350
and they're confusing people, I think. That's my

437
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:08,970
tangent. Right on. Well, you're you're definitely accurate

438
00:16:09,029 --> 00:16:11,110
about all of that. And I like your

439
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:13,110
idea that, you know, one size does not

440
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:14,470
fit all, which was the point we were

441
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:16,629
trying to make. And I really like your,

442
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:20,455
your phrase that, inhalation is fast in fast

443
00:16:20,455 --> 00:16:20,955
out.

444
00:16:21,414 --> 00:16:23,095
I think that those of us, you know,

445
00:16:23,095 --> 00:16:26,054
this audience is is is pretty sophisticated when

446
00:16:26,054 --> 00:16:28,294
it comes to cannabis. And and we've all

447
00:16:28,455 --> 00:16:31,210
we're all familiar with that, but that phrase

448
00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:32,730
really brings it down in a way that

449
00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:35,070
makes it really easy to communicate with people.

450
00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:37,690
While we're talking about the lungs, I wanna

451
00:16:37,690 --> 00:16:40,490
talk about the myth of holding hits because,

452
00:16:41,049 --> 00:16:42,970
I can't I can't, or, you know, I

453
00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:44,350
can't bring this up enough.

454
00:16:44,730 --> 00:16:46,110
We have had other,

455
00:16:47,424 --> 00:16:48,485
you know, cardiovascular

456
00:16:48,865 --> 00:16:49,684
and respiratory,

457
00:16:50,384 --> 00:16:53,024
scientists on this show. And and, and it's

458
00:16:53,024 --> 00:16:55,664
always important to bring up that we've been

459
00:16:55,664 --> 00:16:57,764
taught to hold our hits

460
00:16:58,225 --> 00:17:01,000
so that we can get as much THC

461
00:17:01,139 --> 00:17:03,240
and other cannabinoids out of it.

462
00:17:04,019 --> 00:17:06,579
But that's not really how the lungs work

463
00:17:06,579 --> 00:17:09,079
and it's really better if you just inhale

464
00:17:09,299 --> 00:17:10,200
and exhale

465
00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:11,480
naturally.

466
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,414
Would you just hit on this briefly and

467
00:17:14,414 --> 00:17:16,414
kind of explain the science behind that? I

468
00:17:16,414 --> 00:17:18,595
just want everybody's lungs to be healthier.

469
00:17:19,134 --> 00:17:21,294
Yeah. For sure. I can do the best,

470
00:17:21,454 --> 00:17:23,214
you know, the best that I can. Again,

471
00:17:23,214 --> 00:17:25,315
we don't look so much at the details

472
00:17:25,375 --> 00:17:28,000
of, you know, inhalation and trying to get

473
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,640
as much cannabinoid concentration as possible. But when

474
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,480
you look at how your lungs function, there's

475
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,980
a few things that you mentioned there is

476
00:17:35,759 --> 00:17:37,920
when you breathe it in and you just

477
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,845
hold it, your lungs are just staying still,

478
00:17:40,845 --> 00:17:43,005
right? Your lungs have sensors on them that

479
00:17:43,005 --> 00:17:45,345
when they expand, that's giving information

480
00:17:45,644 --> 00:17:47,565
to your body about what it needs to

481
00:17:47,565 --> 00:17:49,644
do. And so when you're just holding it,

482
00:17:49,644 --> 00:17:51,724
you're not sending any messages for your lungs

483
00:17:51,724 --> 00:17:54,000
to like, you know, diffuse it faster or

484
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,240
more. It's just and what you're doing, you're

485
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,159
essentially holding your breath, which, I mean, we've

486
00:17:58,159 --> 00:17:59,359
all done it when we were eight years

487
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:00,559
old to see how long we could hold

488
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,799
our breath. And and we all, you know,

489
00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:05,039
fall over and whatever. But all you're doing

490
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:06,795
there really is holding your breath. And that's

491
00:18:07,115 --> 00:18:08,955
really you wanna be as safe and as

492
00:18:08,955 --> 00:18:10,015
natural as possible

493
00:18:10,394 --> 00:18:11,994
with your body and the way that it's

494
00:18:11,994 --> 00:18:14,315
supposed to be functioning. So a nice breath

495
00:18:14,315 --> 00:18:16,234
in and a nice breath out, you're gonna

496
00:18:16,234 --> 00:18:18,894
be exchanging the oxygen and the carbon dioxide

497
00:18:19,275 --> 00:18:21,434
that is supposed to be getting exchanged in

498
00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:23,829
that. But you're just including the cannabinoids in

499
00:18:23,829 --> 00:18:25,990
with the oxygen as well. So there's no

500
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:28,470
advantage to sitting and holding it. In fact,

501
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:30,230
you're just gonna get light headed because you're

502
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:33,029
essentially just holding your breath. Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank

503
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:33,529
you.

504
00:18:33,910 --> 00:18:36,345
So, you know, I anybody who listens to

505
00:18:36,345 --> 00:18:38,184
the show regularly knows I've got asthma. I

506
00:18:38,184 --> 00:18:40,125
tend to talk about my asthma a lot.

507
00:18:40,424 --> 00:18:43,144
And one of the things that, I can't

508
00:18:43,144 --> 00:18:45,225
say that it it attracted me to cannabis

509
00:18:45,225 --> 00:18:46,845
because I found out it was a bronchiolator

510
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:49,130
after I was already using cannabis.

511
00:18:49,509 --> 00:18:50,950
But, you know, people said, oh, it's, you

512
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:53,110
know, the the cannabis that you use must

513
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:55,990
be helping your lungs. But for me, my

514
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:57,670
experience with cannabis was,

515
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:59,850
smoking it until I coughed

516
00:19:00,295 --> 00:19:02,134
and then it would, you know, this this

517
00:19:02,134 --> 00:19:04,775
seizing feeling in my lungs and then that

518
00:19:04,775 --> 00:19:07,174
would eventually pass and then I would take

519
00:19:07,174 --> 00:19:10,055
another hit. Right? And so, I've never really

520
00:19:10,055 --> 00:19:10,875
quite understood

521
00:19:11,494 --> 00:19:14,295
this what seems like a contrast in to

522
00:19:14,295 --> 00:19:14,795
me

523
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:15,759
that that,

524
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,019
cannabis is a bronchiolator

525
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,839
while also I experience as,

526
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,700
bronchiol constriction.

527
00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:26,799
And my only guess is that you're gonna

528
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:29,359
tell us it's from particulate. But how can

529
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,579
both of these be true?

530
00:19:31,054 --> 00:19:32,894
So it could be from particulate, but that's

531
00:19:32,894 --> 00:19:35,214
a different mechanism altogether. So what I would

532
00:19:35,214 --> 00:19:37,054
say and what you describe there is that

533
00:19:37,054 --> 00:19:39,714
isn't necessarily when you're coughing, that isn't necessarily

534
00:19:39,775 --> 00:19:43,200
bronchial constriction, that's bronchial aggravation. And so when

535
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,440
you start coughing, it's because something has been

536
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,159
triggered that's aggravating your either your breathing way

537
00:19:48,159 --> 00:19:50,159
or your lungs, and you're starting to do

538
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,240
it's a muscle spasm, essentially, to try to

539
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,140
bring up whatever is aggravating that air passageway.

540
00:19:55,474 --> 00:19:57,394
So there is, you know, there are things

541
00:19:57,394 --> 00:19:59,255
that do bronchial constrict.

542
00:20:00,275 --> 00:20:02,914
For example, and one, one example that we

543
00:20:02,914 --> 00:20:05,494
see a lot actually, and is when people

544
00:20:06,035 --> 00:20:06,535
mix,

545
00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:11,169
their cannabinoids or their cannabis flour with cigarettes

546
00:20:11,230 --> 00:20:12,849
because cigarettes are actually

547
00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:13,650
constricting,

548
00:20:14,269 --> 00:20:17,230
but cannabis is actually dilating. And so people

549
00:20:17,230 --> 00:20:18,750
think, okay, well, if I mix them together

550
00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:20,269
in a spliff, then they're gonna, you know,

551
00:20:20,269 --> 00:20:21,950
wipe each other out or neutralize each other.

552
00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:23,775
And that doesn't actually happen either because,

553
00:20:24,474 --> 00:20:26,154
again, when you think about your lungs being

554
00:20:26,154 --> 00:20:27,055
like a tree,

555
00:20:27,674 --> 00:20:29,595
all those branches okay. So now pretend it's

556
00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:31,914
a water tree and and there's water flowing

557
00:20:31,914 --> 00:20:33,755
through the trunk and the water is flowing

558
00:20:33,755 --> 00:20:35,914
through all of those different branches, like little

559
00:20:36,075 --> 00:20:38,154
like hoses. Right? Then if you grabbed a

560
00:20:38,154 --> 00:20:41,009
branch and you folded that hose in half,

561
00:20:41,009 --> 00:20:43,329
now you constricted that branch. But what it

562
00:20:43,329 --> 00:20:45,410
did was it forced the water to go

563
00:20:45,410 --> 00:20:47,329
to a different branch. Right. So you're, you're

564
00:20:47,329 --> 00:20:49,250
playing with the levels of the pressure. And

565
00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:51,855
so in your lungs, when you roll your

566
00:20:51,855 --> 00:20:54,255
cannabis with tobacco as well, you know, in

567
00:20:54,255 --> 00:20:56,494
cigarette or you put it together, you can

568
00:20:56,494 --> 00:20:59,134
actually have constriction and dilation at the same

569
00:20:59,134 --> 00:21:01,295
time, but not in the same place. So

570
00:21:01,295 --> 00:21:03,615
different branches would have different, you know, you

571
00:21:03,615 --> 00:21:06,419
inhale these molecules and different branches are getting

572
00:21:06,419 --> 00:21:09,720
different signals. Our body is one humongous signaling

573
00:21:09,779 --> 00:21:12,099
machine and there's signals being sent all the

574
00:21:12,099 --> 00:21:13,000
time. So,

575
00:21:14,099 --> 00:21:15,940
for asthma, it is true, actually. It's, it's

576
00:21:15,940 --> 00:21:18,275
kind of cool. But back in ancient times,

577
00:21:18,275 --> 00:21:20,674
they used to use cannabis as a treatment

578
00:21:20,674 --> 00:21:22,914
for asthma. That was what they used it

579
00:21:22,914 --> 00:21:23,414
for.

580
00:21:24,035 --> 00:21:25,575
And because it is a bronchiolator,

581
00:21:26,115 --> 00:21:28,035
and so it can open up the air

582
00:21:28,035 --> 00:21:30,674
passageway so you can get more oxygen into

583
00:21:30,674 --> 00:21:31,174
your

584
00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:33,930
lungs, which then goes into your body to

585
00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:35,850
feed all of the tissue in the muscle

586
00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:36,830
and stuff. So,

587
00:21:37,769 --> 00:21:39,289
yeah. So, but I would say that if

588
00:21:39,289 --> 00:21:40,809
you start coughing, for sure, it could be

589
00:21:40,809 --> 00:21:41,309
particulate.

590
00:21:41,769 --> 00:21:43,630
And we know, you know, there is also,

591
00:21:43,954 --> 00:21:45,795
you know, some byproducts and stuff that could

592
00:21:45,795 --> 00:21:48,355
potentially be irritating to the actual tissue of

593
00:21:48,355 --> 00:21:50,674
your lung. Sure. And that's gonna start sort

594
00:21:50,674 --> 00:21:52,994
of kicking. Those branches are gonna start tweaking

595
00:21:52,994 --> 00:21:54,515
sort of, and that's gonna cause you to

596
00:21:54,515 --> 00:21:56,595
cough. Right? And so some kids actually have,

597
00:21:56,595 --> 00:21:58,454
you know, asthma, actually,

598
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,740
asthma in general, not even with cannabinoids,

599
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,880
it can start triggering their lungs to kind

600
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,320
of freak out, and they just start coughing,

601
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,720
even without cannabis. Mhmm. But it's it's actually

602
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,660
asthma induced, you know, coughing.

603
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,454
So it's it's a trigger. It's, you know,

604
00:22:12,595 --> 00:22:15,234
again, nerves. Right? Nerve signals, and then it's

605
00:22:15,234 --> 00:22:17,714
muscle spasms. And so HCA is also kind

606
00:22:17,714 --> 00:22:19,714
of a muscle relaxant as well. And so

607
00:22:19,714 --> 00:22:21,954
for, you know, it bronchiolates, but it also

608
00:22:21,954 --> 00:22:22,454
does,

609
00:22:22,994 --> 00:22:25,255
relax those muscles that are sort of triggered

610
00:22:25,315 --> 00:22:27,299
and coughing. And so yeah.

611
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:30,580
Great. Excellent. Alright. So so so,

612
00:22:30,980 --> 00:22:32,920
as far as we're moving downstream

613
00:22:33,299 --> 00:22:36,019
from the toking moment, so we we've we've

614
00:22:36,019 --> 00:22:38,420
inhaled it. We know we don't wanna hold

615
00:22:38,420 --> 00:22:39,799
our hit in.

616
00:22:40,244 --> 00:22:42,585
Hopefully, we don't get any, bronchial

617
00:22:42,884 --> 00:22:44,184
response and coughing.

618
00:22:45,125 --> 00:22:47,305
And so we've got a little bronchial dilation,

619
00:22:47,365 --> 00:22:49,704
which is making us feel smooth and easy.

620
00:22:50,164 --> 00:22:53,204
And so so now the cannabinoids are into

621
00:22:53,204 --> 00:22:55,660
our blood system, and and and now we've

622
00:22:55,660 --> 00:22:56,559
hit the cardiovascular

623
00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:59,519
system, our our heart and blood flow.

624
00:22:59,820 --> 00:23:02,140
And we're we're to this point, sometimes, like,

625
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:03,039
within a minute.

626
00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:06,539
And and and so let's talk about that.

627
00:23:06,539 --> 00:23:09,275
So so what's what's the better way to

628
00:23:09,275 --> 00:23:11,195
discuss this, Liz? Is it is it better

629
00:23:11,195 --> 00:23:12,095
to have you

630
00:23:12,715 --> 00:23:15,134
explain these next parts, or should I,

631
00:23:15,515 --> 00:23:16,815
start asking you questions

632
00:23:17,275 --> 00:23:20,075
about it because the reactions in the body

633
00:23:20,075 --> 00:23:21,215
are so spread out?

634
00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:24,299
They are definitely spread out because we have

635
00:23:24,299 --> 00:23:25,759
to remember that the endocannabinoid

636
00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:28,940
system and these receptors that these molecules are

637
00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:31,340
interacting with are everywhere. And I'm sure that,

638
00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:33,580
you know, your audience probably has a baseline

639
00:23:33,580 --> 00:23:36,059
understanding of how cannabis is even working in

640
00:23:36,059 --> 00:23:36,559
general,

641
00:23:36,865 --> 00:23:38,464
But it has everything to do with your

642
00:23:38,464 --> 00:23:38,964
endocannabinoid

643
00:23:39,265 --> 00:23:41,024
system. And we have to remember that these

644
00:23:41,024 --> 00:23:42,244
receptors are there

645
00:23:42,625 --> 00:23:45,284
everywhere in our body to naturally accept molecules

646
00:23:45,345 --> 00:23:46,325
that are stereochemically

647
00:23:46,784 --> 00:23:49,444
almost identical to things that we secrete ourselves.

648
00:23:49,904 --> 00:23:51,984
So I think sometimes it's hard for people

649
00:23:51,984 --> 00:23:54,549
to sort of think, well, like, why are

650
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:56,710
these cannabis molecules rolling around and doing all

651
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:58,869
of these things to me, but and actually

652
00:23:58,869 --> 00:24:01,450
science didn't even know why until we isolated,

653
00:24:01,509 --> 00:24:03,589
I think how it isolated the first receptor

654
00:24:03,589 --> 00:24:05,750
in 1988. So this is a baby science,

655
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:07,130
like understanding our endocannabinoid

656
00:24:07,509 --> 00:24:08,009
system

657
00:24:08,505 --> 00:24:11,005
is a baby in science years. But,

658
00:24:11,704 --> 00:24:12,445
to really

659
00:24:12,984 --> 00:24:15,384
to really recognize what we're doing, we have

660
00:24:15,384 --> 00:24:17,484
to give, again, shout out to the endocannabinoid

661
00:24:17,865 --> 00:24:18,684
system because

662
00:24:19,065 --> 00:24:22,070
it is everywhere, and it is normally receiving

663
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:25,029
molecules that you secrete yourself. So, really, there

664
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:26,869
is no place in your body that these

665
00:24:26,869 --> 00:24:27,369
molecules

666
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:28,730
are

667
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:31,190
not gonna affect. Right? They can affect so

668
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:32,330
many different things.

669
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:33,769
So chemically,

670
00:24:34,325 --> 00:24:36,964
mechanically, what's what will happen once it hits

671
00:24:36,964 --> 00:24:37,785
the cardiovascular

672
00:24:38,164 --> 00:24:38,984
system is

673
00:24:39,365 --> 00:24:42,744
our our our our blood vessels will dilate,

674
00:24:43,125 --> 00:24:44,585
which will decrease

675
00:24:44,884 --> 00:24:45,384
our,

676
00:24:46,005 --> 00:24:46,825
blood pressure,

677
00:24:47,309 --> 00:24:48,049
which increases

678
00:24:48,669 --> 00:24:51,309
our heart rate. Right? So to us as

679
00:24:51,309 --> 00:24:52,049
a consumer,

680
00:24:52,429 --> 00:24:53,490
we feel suddenly

681
00:24:53,950 --> 00:24:56,349
sped up. And it's and it's the at

682
00:24:56,349 --> 00:24:57,730
the core of it, it's because

683
00:24:58,509 --> 00:25:00,210
the the the blood vessels

684
00:25:00,625 --> 00:25:02,484
have gotten a little flimsy,

685
00:25:03,184 --> 00:25:05,605
and and and so it kind of softens

686
00:25:05,744 --> 00:25:07,765
our our blood pressure. Right?

687
00:25:08,144 --> 00:25:09,845
Yes. Exactly. And so,

688
00:25:10,384 --> 00:25:11,664
a good way to think about that, and

689
00:25:11,664 --> 00:25:13,649
that was a really good explanation, is your

690
00:25:13,649 --> 00:25:16,210
body is very, there's a lot of sensors.

691
00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:18,289
Like I said, like, everything is a sensor

692
00:25:18,289 --> 00:25:19,970
in one way or another, and it's telling

693
00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:21,269
another part of your body

694
00:25:21,569 --> 00:25:23,569
what's going on in its neighborhood. You know?

695
00:25:23,569 --> 00:25:24,309
And so

696
00:25:25,505 --> 00:25:26,085
a reductionistic

697
00:25:27,264 --> 00:25:30,304
view of the body, which, again, sometimes in

698
00:25:30,304 --> 00:25:30,804
pharmacy,

699
00:25:31,264 --> 00:25:33,284
things are very reduced. They're monomolecular

700
00:25:33,744 --> 00:25:35,744
targets that these drugs are trying to hit.

701
00:25:35,744 --> 00:25:38,309
But and they work for certain things, but

702
00:25:38,309 --> 00:25:41,429
they're ignoring all the other neighborhoods around that

703
00:25:41,429 --> 00:25:43,670
one, you know, town that the molecule is

704
00:25:43,670 --> 00:25:46,230
trying to affect. And so when you're thinking

705
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:49,589
about how those things work in your body

706
00:25:49,589 --> 00:25:51,049
as far as, like, your

707
00:25:51,424 --> 00:25:52,565
blood vessels dilating.

708
00:25:53,025 --> 00:25:55,345
So you inhale it, your blood vessels dilate,

709
00:25:55,345 --> 00:25:57,825
but there's triggers. So that's a sensor and

710
00:25:57,825 --> 00:25:59,345
your body picks up on that and your

711
00:25:59,345 --> 00:26:01,265
heart's like, holy crap, there's no blood pressure

712
00:26:01,265 --> 00:26:02,865
down there unless she wants to faint. I

713
00:26:02,865 --> 00:26:04,384
gotta speed up because we need to pick

714
00:26:04,384 --> 00:26:06,289
up the pressure. So they get the, you

715
00:26:06,289 --> 00:26:08,690
know, the blood starts moving faster to increase

716
00:26:08,690 --> 00:26:10,609
the pressure so that there's some tension against

717
00:26:10,609 --> 00:26:12,609
the walls of your arteries, you know, so

718
00:26:12,609 --> 00:26:15,109
that it doesn't feel so flaccid. And so

719
00:26:15,410 --> 00:26:17,809
anybody that has POTS or, you know, any

720
00:26:17,809 --> 00:26:20,369
kind of low low blood pressure regularly, you

721
00:26:20,369 --> 00:26:22,424
know, just by nature, a baseline low blood

722
00:26:22,424 --> 00:26:24,505
pressure will know, you know, when they stand

723
00:26:24,505 --> 00:26:26,184
up too fast or when they make sudden

724
00:26:26,184 --> 00:26:26,684
movements.

725
00:26:27,144 --> 00:26:29,224
If they don't have their sensors, you know,

726
00:26:29,224 --> 00:26:31,544
their sensors aren't able to adjust as quickly

727
00:26:31,544 --> 00:26:33,544
as somebody that doesn't have POTS or, you

728
00:26:33,544 --> 00:26:34,044
know,

729
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:35,609
orthostatic tachycardia.

730
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:36,490
So

731
00:26:36,869 --> 00:26:39,190
it's it's the sensors. And so your body

732
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:40,970
is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

733
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:42,490
When it when THC

734
00:26:42,789 --> 00:26:45,190
dilates, your body does exactly what it should

735
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:46,329
be doing. It recognizes,

736
00:26:46,744 --> 00:26:48,744
holy crap, the blood pressure just dropped, speed

737
00:26:48,744 --> 00:26:50,664
the heart up, and and it's working. Your

738
00:26:50,664 --> 00:26:52,664
body's amazing. It's doing exactly what it should

739
00:26:52,664 --> 00:26:54,585
be doing. Now it freaks people out sometimes

740
00:26:54,585 --> 00:26:56,025
because they're like, oh my god. My heart's,

741
00:26:56,025 --> 00:26:57,725
like, mega racing. And, you know, then

742
00:26:58,345 --> 00:27:00,184
depending on how much THC they use, they

743
00:27:00,184 --> 00:27:01,965
might completely freak out. But

744
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,440
Well, for freaking out can sometimes be be

745
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,059
part of the rite of passage, unfortunately.

746
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,039
We'll we'll we'll talk about,

747
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:13,519
by the biphasic nature of THC here in

748
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:14,340
a little bit.

749
00:27:14,865 --> 00:27:17,424
I I do wanna, I do wanna flag

750
00:27:17,424 --> 00:27:18,805
what you said about POTS.

751
00:27:19,184 --> 00:27:22,065
I do have POTS. And for anybody who

752
00:27:22,065 --> 00:27:22,805
is listening

753
00:27:23,345 --> 00:27:23,845
who,

754
00:27:24,305 --> 00:27:25,664
you know, when you have a toke and

755
00:27:25,664 --> 00:27:27,390
then you go to stand up, if if

756
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:29,789
you tend to get more dizzy, if your

757
00:27:29,789 --> 00:27:32,190
vestibular system tends to be more off than

758
00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:33,250
other of your friends,

759
00:27:34,029 --> 00:27:36,430
give a little, give a little search on

760
00:27:36,430 --> 00:27:38,130
Google or similar for,

761
00:27:38,590 --> 00:27:40,529
POTS. That's postural orthostatic

762
00:27:41,154 --> 00:27:43,634
tachycardia syndrome. And this isn't an episode about

763
00:27:43,634 --> 00:27:45,154
POTS, so we're not really gonna go into

764
00:27:45,154 --> 00:27:47,174
it. But suffice to say that,

765
00:27:47,954 --> 00:27:50,434
cannabis makes it a lot worse. And I

766
00:27:50,434 --> 00:27:52,674
found out about POTS on a podcast and

767
00:27:52,674 --> 00:27:54,130
looked up, and I'm like, oh my god.

768
00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:56,289
I've had this my whole life. And and

769
00:27:56,289 --> 00:27:58,049
and now now I understand how to work

770
00:27:58,049 --> 00:28:00,529
with it, and I don't black out as

771
00:28:00,529 --> 00:28:02,769
much. So that's great. Yep. Yeah. And one

772
00:28:02,769 --> 00:28:04,930
caveat to that again is that's specific to

773
00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:07,990
THC. Right? CBD actually doesn't have that

774
00:28:09,184 --> 00:28:11,204
same effect. And so CBD,

775
00:28:12,144 --> 00:28:15,265
my supervisor actually published a paper with, a

776
00:28:15,265 --> 00:28:17,265
colleague of mine. So if you just look

777
00:28:17,265 --> 00:28:19,365
up, it's, Neri and Singh paper.

778
00:28:19,664 --> 00:28:21,899
And so it that's your that's your autonomic

779
00:28:21,899 --> 00:28:24,220
nervous system being kind of dysfunctional. Right? So

780
00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:26,380
your autonomic nervous system is the nervous system

781
00:28:26,380 --> 00:28:27,119
that is

782
00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:30,079
in control of your body without you consciously

783
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:31,819
telling it what to do. And the easiest

784
00:28:31,819 --> 00:28:33,899
example is if someone jumps out and scares

785
00:28:33,899 --> 00:28:35,179
the crap out of you, your heart rate

786
00:28:35,179 --> 00:28:36,615
goes through the roof. You did not tell

787
00:28:36,615 --> 00:28:38,055
your heart rate to go through the roof.

788
00:28:38,055 --> 00:28:40,234
Your body was responding to its environment.

789
00:28:40,695 --> 00:28:41,894
Why did your heart rate go through the

790
00:28:41,894 --> 00:28:44,535
roof? Because you went into a sympathetic overdrive

791
00:28:44,535 --> 00:28:46,375
and your body thought, I'm under attack. I

792
00:28:46,375 --> 00:28:48,855
need oxygen. I need glucose. I need and

793
00:28:48,855 --> 00:28:50,214
and that's what you get when your heart

794
00:28:50,214 --> 00:28:52,799
rate goes up. Right? So your autonomic nervous

795
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:55,359
system really is in POTS. That is what

796
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:55,859
is,

797
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,259
it's off kilter. And so

798
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,799
they published a paper. Again, it was post

799
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:02,819
concussion because because POTS

800
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:05,460
people that have concussion often have similar

801
00:29:06,075 --> 00:29:08,154
sort of symptoms. Right? Like, it's it's an

802
00:29:08,154 --> 00:29:10,315
umbrella thing where you're and and no two

803
00:29:10,315 --> 00:29:12,335
concussions are the same. But when your autonomic

804
00:29:12,394 --> 00:29:14,634
nervous system is off kilter, what you're trying

805
00:29:14,634 --> 00:29:15,534
to do is

806
00:29:15,994 --> 00:29:18,919
regulate your ability to flip between sympathetic and

807
00:29:18,919 --> 00:29:19,419
parasympathetic

808
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:22,440
autonomic nervous system. Sympathetic is your fight or

809
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:22,940
flight,

810
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,740
and your parasympathetic is your rest and digest.

811
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:28,519
And so if you're chronically stuck in one

812
00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:31,480
or the other, you can't regulate yourself properly.

813
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,404
So in their, published paper, they use CBD,

814
00:29:34,784 --> 00:29:36,784
and they were looking to see, so we

815
00:29:36,784 --> 00:29:39,025
can use heart rate variability as a proxy

816
00:29:39,025 --> 00:29:42,784
measurement to look at your autonomic nervous system

817
00:29:42,784 --> 00:29:45,204
and see, is your autonomic nervous system

818
00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:47,920
good? Like, is it flexible? Is it responsive?

819
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,440
And we use it in athletes a lot

820
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,640
to see, are they ready for harder training?

821
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,000
And so if they have a good heart

822
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,319
rate variability response, we know that their system

823
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,079
is recovered. If they don't have a good

824
00:29:58,079 --> 00:29:59,759
heart rate variability, then we know that their

825
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:01,815
system's under pressure and they haven't recovered yet.

826
00:30:01,815 --> 00:30:02,315
Right?

827
00:30:02,615 --> 00:30:05,255
So they use CBD in this publication, and

828
00:30:05,255 --> 00:30:06,134
they were able to,

829
00:30:07,494 --> 00:30:10,375
increase these post concussion they were female post

830
00:30:10,375 --> 00:30:12,694
concussion patients. They were able to increase their

831
00:30:12,694 --> 00:30:15,259
heart rate variability using CBD, which is an

832
00:30:15,259 --> 00:30:17,980
indicator that they're able to massage the autonomic

833
00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:19,899
nervous system back into a place where it

834
00:30:19,899 --> 00:30:22,779
can be flexible to get out of the

835
00:30:22,779 --> 00:30:25,899
overdrive of sympathetic or overdrive of parasympathetic and

836
00:30:25,899 --> 00:30:27,759
get it back regulated into homeostasis.

837
00:30:28,914 --> 00:30:30,434
Wow. Well, thank you for that. I definitely

838
00:30:30,434 --> 00:30:32,674
am gonna go and read that paper. I

839
00:30:32,674 --> 00:30:35,494
am a, I'm a nerd for the autonomic

840
00:30:35,555 --> 00:30:37,875
system, but mostly because of my own issues.

841
00:30:37,875 --> 00:30:40,035
But Yeah. I'll I'll go look that up.

842
00:30:40,035 --> 00:30:41,400
Thank you. Let's let's talk a little bit

843
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,460
more about vasodilation.

844
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,400
You know, one of the classic signs of

845
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:46,279
somebody being,

846
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,180
stoned is that they've got bloodshot eyes. And,

847
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,279
you know, it was actually in preparing for

848
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:53,880
our chat today that I I I found

849
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,625
out that it's not about having dry eyes,

850
00:30:56,625 --> 00:30:58,304
which is what I always thought it was.

851
00:30:58,304 --> 00:30:59,505
It's because the,

852
00:31:00,704 --> 00:31:03,845
the blood vessels in the eye have vasodilated

853
00:31:04,544 --> 00:31:06,865
and they're they have widened. And so now

854
00:31:06,865 --> 00:31:08,644
we can see them in the eyes.

855
00:31:09,859 --> 00:31:11,880
Do you know of any good solution

856
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:15,299
for bloodshot eyes other than eye drops? Is

857
00:31:15,299 --> 00:31:16,580
there is there anything else that we can

858
00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:17,080
do?

859
00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:19,619
No. I don't I don't know of anything

860
00:31:19,619 --> 00:31:22,019
better than eye drops. I yeah. That's Yeah.

861
00:31:22,019 --> 00:31:23,845
I don't either. I I figured I figured

862
00:31:23,845 --> 00:31:25,544
I'd throw that in there, though. Yeah.

863
00:31:25,845 --> 00:31:28,244
Yeah. No. Definitely not. But again, context matters.

864
00:31:28,244 --> 00:31:29,924
Right? That can be an advantage when we're

865
00:31:29,924 --> 00:31:32,164
looking at people that have glaucoma or they

866
00:31:32,164 --> 00:31:34,724
have pressure in their ocular. So we wanna

867
00:31:34,724 --> 00:31:36,164
dilate that because what are we doing? We're

868
00:31:36,164 --> 00:31:37,829
getting more oxygen and blood flow to the

869
00:31:37,829 --> 00:31:39,609
places they need to go. Right? So yes.

870
00:31:40,869 --> 00:31:42,470
Yeah. For sure. But I I don't know

871
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:44,490
anything else other than the blood

872
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:47,109
draws. Yeah. Fair fair enough. So so with

873
00:31:47,109 --> 00:31:47,769
the cardiovascular

874
00:31:48,390 --> 00:31:49,690
system, you know,

875
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:52,730
we we started by talking about how intimately

876
00:31:54,065 --> 00:31:56,404
it is, connected with the endocannabinoid

877
00:31:56,785 --> 00:31:58,944
system where they they more or less occupy

878
00:31:58,944 --> 00:32:00,464
the same space and they have a lot

879
00:32:00,464 --> 00:32:01,525
of the same participants.

880
00:32:02,384 --> 00:32:02,884
And,

881
00:32:03,904 --> 00:32:05,825
but we we you know, when we talk

882
00:32:05,825 --> 00:32:08,359
about it, we're like, okay. The cannabinoids, you

883
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:11,000
know, they go through the lungs and into

884
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,660
the bloodstream

885
00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:14,599
and and then, you know, to all of

886
00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,140
the receptors around the body.

887
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:18,299
And the idea that the,

888
00:32:19,345 --> 00:32:21,044
the the cannabinoids, the phytocannabinoids

889
00:32:21,585 --> 00:32:23,345
that we have entered into our body, you

890
00:32:23,345 --> 00:32:24,244
know, just somehow

891
00:32:25,105 --> 00:32:27,825
get in the blood and then the blood

892
00:32:27,825 --> 00:32:29,125
moves around the body.

893
00:32:29,585 --> 00:32:31,904
Is it as basic as that? I mean,

894
00:32:31,904 --> 00:32:34,404
that's how it looks in the grade school,

895
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,740
you know, animations of how the body works.

896
00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:40,359
It it is it that simple? It seems

897
00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:42,920
like the cannabinoids would have a long way

898
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,400
to go to re reach all of the

899
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,859
receptors in the body.

900
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,700
And are the

901
00:32:49,255 --> 00:32:52,075
are the receptors on the periphery less likely

902
00:32:52,454 --> 00:32:53,355
to be activated?

903
00:32:54,535 --> 00:32:56,775
Yeah. So it really the thing that's really

904
00:32:56,775 --> 00:32:58,154
interesting about the endocannabinoid

905
00:32:58,615 --> 00:33:01,095
system is it's a compensatory system. And so

906
00:33:01,095 --> 00:33:02,160
when you think about,

907
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,799
and that's why it works so well for

908
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,119
so many different things. When you have an

909
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:08,960
injury of any type, so now you've entered

910
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,880
in the cannabinoids into your body, right, and

911
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,519
it's circulating around. So remember, you have your

912
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:15,325
and we'll just talk about the two very

913
00:33:15,325 --> 00:33:17,644
basic ones. CB one is on basically central

914
00:33:17,644 --> 00:33:20,045
nervous system. CB two, it is in motion

915
00:33:20,045 --> 00:33:20,545
circulating

916
00:33:20,845 --> 00:33:23,485
on your endo on your immune cells, right,

917
00:33:23,485 --> 00:33:26,285
primarily. Those CB two receptors, they're moving. And

918
00:33:26,285 --> 00:33:27,690
that's why pharmacologically,

919
00:33:28,390 --> 00:33:30,150
it's like a moving target. And now when

920
00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:32,150
you have an injury, so if it's an

921
00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:34,410
injury in your brain, for example, like concussion

922
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:36,710
or even an injury, any kind of neural

923
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:38,250
injury in your periphery,

924
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:39,769
there's an upregulation

925
00:33:40,150 --> 00:33:42,335
of those CB one and CB two receptors,

926
00:33:42,335 --> 00:33:44,174
meaning you have way more targets. So if

927
00:33:44,174 --> 00:33:45,774
you think about it like little birds in

928
00:33:45,774 --> 00:33:47,134
the nest, all of a sudden you have,

929
00:33:47,134 --> 00:33:49,134
like, 30 birds in the nest waiting to

930
00:33:49,134 --> 00:33:51,214
be hit when there's an injury. And so

931
00:33:51,214 --> 00:33:52,835
when you can send in the cannabinoids,

932
00:33:53,259 --> 00:33:55,660
it's gonna be more it's more effective at

933
00:33:55,660 --> 00:33:57,900
the places that it's needed because there has

934
00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:01,339
been a compensatory activity of the endocannabinoid system

935
00:34:01,339 --> 00:34:03,740
to upregulate those c b one and c

936
00:34:03,740 --> 00:34:05,660
b two receptors, and there's changes in other

937
00:34:05,660 --> 00:34:07,904
things. But we can we can harness that

938
00:34:07,904 --> 00:34:08,804
as an advantage

939
00:34:09,105 --> 00:34:09,605
again

940
00:34:09,905 --> 00:34:10,885
using it pharmacologically

941
00:34:11,264 --> 00:34:13,844
because knowing this and we know with neurodegenerative

942
00:34:14,144 --> 00:34:15,585
disorders again, I know I'm talking a lot

943
00:34:15,585 --> 00:34:17,025
about the brain, but that's where he's been

944
00:34:17,025 --> 00:34:18,244
my time playing. But,

945
00:34:19,029 --> 00:34:20,569
if you think about the neurodegenerative

946
00:34:21,029 --> 00:34:24,250
disorders, we know that CB two upregulation

947
00:34:24,949 --> 00:34:25,769
in microglia,

948
00:34:26,309 --> 00:34:28,789
which are basically the resident immune cells in

949
00:34:28,789 --> 00:34:31,190
your brain. Now, again, people think CB two

950
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:32,755
is only in the periphery. It's not. You

951
00:34:32,755 --> 00:34:34,434
have c b two receptors in your brain

952
00:34:34,434 --> 00:34:36,755
on your microglia, which are the immune cells

953
00:34:36,755 --> 00:34:37,494
of the brain.

954
00:34:38,275 --> 00:34:40,614
When you have any kind of neuro

955
00:34:41,315 --> 00:34:43,974
trauma or or just even a metabolic crisis,

956
00:34:44,195 --> 00:34:45,894
those c b two receptors upregulate.

957
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,380
And we know that that's the common denominator

958
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:50,219
for almost every neurodegenerative

959
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:51,179
disorder.

960
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,859
So we're talking ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's,

961
00:34:56,359 --> 00:34:58,460
MS, concussion, post concussion,

962
00:34:58,944 --> 00:35:00,085
because when your microglia

963
00:35:00,464 --> 00:35:00,964
are

964
00:35:01,264 --> 00:35:01,764
aggravated,

965
00:35:02,545 --> 00:35:05,264
now CB two receptors are up regulating and

966
00:35:05,264 --> 00:35:06,964
we see that in all neurodegenerative

967
00:35:07,344 --> 00:35:09,684
disorders. And that means to me that

968
00:35:09,984 --> 00:35:10,964
when you're aggravating

969
00:35:11,505 --> 00:35:13,025
any kind of nerves, but now we're talking

970
00:35:13,025 --> 00:35:15,110
about the one in your brain, the immune

971
00:35:15,110 --> 00:35:17,510
system around it is playing a massive role

972
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:19,829
in the crosstalk between those two systems. And

973
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:21,190
we know that in the brain. We know

974
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:22,550
that if we hit that c b two

975
00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:24,410
receptor, we can flip the microglia

976
00:35:24,949 --> 00:35:27,505
out of a pro inflammatory state, which they're

977
00:35:27,505 --> 00:35:29,585
throwing all kinds of pro inflammatory cytokines and

978
00:35:29,585 --> 00:35:30,085
chemokines.

979
00:35:30,385 --> 00:35:32,224
We hit it. It can flip into an

980
00:35:32,224 --> 00:35:35,264
anti inflammatory state, and now it's not throwing

981
00:35:35,264 --> 00:35:37,925
those things and it's more throwing anti inflammatory

982
00:35:38,144 --> 00:35:40,304
molecules. Right. And so by reducing that, and

983
00:35:40,304 --> 00:35:41,985
that's why we think like in our clinical

984
00:35:41,985 --> 00:35:45,570
trial that we can, use, use the receptors

985
00:35:45,949 --> 00:35:47,710
to our advantage and the fact that they

986
00:35:47,710 --> 00:35:49,630
do change. So it's not as simple as

987
00:35:49,630 --> 00:35:51,070
what you said, you know, it's rolling through

988
00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:53,230
and your body's rolling through your body is

989
00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:55,889
a very dynamic system. That's always changing itself.

990
00:35:55,949 --> 00:35:58,605
And so there will be different places where

991
00:35:58,605 --> 00:35:59,664
you have more,

992
00:36:00,204 --> 00:36:02,525
adhesion molecules and different things. And so as

993
00:36:02,525 --> 00:36:05,485
it rolls along, you know, it's gonna, CBD

994
00:36:05,485 --> 00:36:07,405
is a really good example of this. When

995
00:36:07,405 --> 00:36:08,144
you have,

996
00:36:09,609 --> 00:36:10,750
when you have an injury

997
00:36:11,289 --> 00:36:13,210
and your blood cells are rolling along down

998
00:36:13,210 --> 00:36:14,109
your blood vessels,

999
00:36:14,889 --> 00:36:17,369
it gets sticky where there's an injury. So

1000
00:36:17,369 --> 00:36:20,250
there's, it's like adhesion molecules and the CBD

1001
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:21,889
rolls along. And as it's rolling, all of

1002
00:36:21,889 --> 00:36:24,445
a sudden it's like Velcro, it's, it's stuck.

1003
00:36:24,445 --> 00:36:26,284
It like it's stuck. Your blood vessels get

1004
00:36:26,284 --> 00:36:28,844
stuck. Right? So when your CBD goes there,

1005
00:36:28,844 --> 00:36:31,405
when CBD goes there, it actually can reduce

1006
00:36:31,405 --> 00:36:32,625
those adhesion molecules,

1007
00:36:33,244 --> 00:36:34,925
which means that it kind of smooths it

1008
00:36:34,925 --> 00:36:36,849
out. So that now you're not gonna be

1009
00:36:36,849 --> 00:36:38,929
pulling all those pro inflammatory things there that

1010
00:36:38,929 --> 00:36:40,630
are gonna end up causing a problem.

1011
00:36:41,090 --> 00:36:41,590
So

1012
00:36:42,050 --> 00:36:44,609
you can, again, it's it's depending on what's

1013
00:36:44,609 --> 00:36:47,190
going on in your body, but it's the

1014
00:36:47,489 --> 00:36:49,934
cannabinoid molecules are circulating and doing the exact

1015
00:36:49,934 --> 00:36:51,375
things as the rest of your body is

1016
00:36:51,375 --> 00:36:53,934
doing, which is patrolling and checking out what's

1017
00:36:53,934 --> 00:36:56,175
going on. And then based on what's going

1018
00:36:56,175 --> 00:36:58,655
on in those areas, it will, you know,

1019
00:36:58,655 --> 00:37:00,355
act accordingly type of thing.

1020
00:37:01,055 --> 00:37:03,430
That's interesting that it changes so often, and

1021
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:05,190
then there is such variability. And I think

1022
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:07,190
that's kind of the case with anything that

1023
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:09,269
people have gotta learn. It's gotta be super

1024
00:37:09,269 --> 00:37:11,449
simplified so you can explain it to people.

1025
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:13,989
But when we get really into the nitty

1026
00:37:13,989 --> 00:37:16,704
gritty of it, it's it's way more variable

1027
00:37:16,844 --> 00:37:18,065
and and difficult.

1028
00:37:18,605 --> 00:37:19,085
And,

1029
00:37:19,485 --> 00:37:19,724
and,

1030
00:37:20,364 --> 00:37:22,125
the the idea that the receptors are on

1031
00:37:22,125 --> 00:37:23,885
the move is something I had never, thought

1032
00:37:23,885 --> 00:37:25,724
of either. I always kind of considered them,

1033
00:37:25,724 --> 00:37:28,139
like, they they lived one place. And it

1034
00:37:28,139 --> 00:37:29,500
makes it a lot more of a, like,

1035
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:32,139
a a hunt and a hunt and seek

1036
00:37:32,139 --> 00:37:32,639
adventure.

1037
00:37:33,099 --> 00:37:33,420
So,

1038
00:37:34,699 --> 00:37:36,299
before we're gonna about to go to break

1039
00:37:36,299 --> 00:37:38,059
here, our first break. But before we go

1040
00:37:38,059 --> 00:37:39,440
to I just wanna say,

1041
00:37:39,980 --> 00:37:41,760
doctor Thompson, how much I appreciate,

1042
00:37:42,380 --> 00:37:42,880
having

1043
00:37:43,194 --> 00:37:45,835
a newly minted PhD like yourself on the

1044
00:37:45,835 --> 00:37:48,074
show. You are so up with all your

1045
00:37:48,074 --> 00:37:50,714
vocabulary and all of the new science. It's

1046
00:37:50,714 --> 00:37:52,875
it's I I just get excited and smiling

1047
00:37:52,875 --> 00:37:54,655
just listening to you talk because

1048
00:37:55,114 --> 00:37:57,269
you're you're so clearly in the midst of

1049
00:37:57,269 --> 00:37:59,670
that the cutting edge right now and it's

1050
00:37:59,670 --> 00:38:00,070
really,

1051
00:38:00,469 --> 00:38:02,550
it's it's a real joy. So thank you

1052
00:38:02,550 --> 00:38:04,309
for that. You'll you'll you'll hear more of

1053
00:38:04,309 --> 00:38:05,750
that praise at the end of the show.

1054
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:06,230
So,

1055
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:08,070
so we're gonna take a short break and

1056
00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:09,989
be right back. You are listening to Shaping

1057
00:38:09,989 --> 00:38:11,929
Fire and my guest today is neuropharmacologist,

1058
00:38:12,855 --> 00:38:13,355
Elizabeth

1059
00:38:14,655 --> 00:38:15,155
Thompson.

1060
00:38:16,454 --> 00:38:19,195
Fish poop brand fertilizer is an all natural

1061
00:38:19,255 --> 00:38:22,954
OMRI certified fish poop concentrate with nothing added.

1062
00:38:23,414 --> 00:38:25,114
Real fish poop is extraordinarily

1063
00:38:25,574 --> 00:38:26,074
complex.

1064
00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:29,079
Not only are you adding the nitrogen, phosphorus,

1065
00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:31,559
and potassium your plants need to build mass,

1066
00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:34,039
transport nutrients, and enhance flavor,

1067
00:38:34,340 --> 00:38:37,079
but fish waste is also packed with probiotics

1068
00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:38,039
and micronutrients.

1069
00:38:39,264 --> 00:38:41,605
When you add fish poop to your irrigation

1070
00:38:41,744 --> 00:38:44,625
water, you are adding fertilizer in a form

1071
00:38:44,625 --> 00:38:47,344
that strengthens the soil food web in your

1072
00:38:47,344 --> 00:38:47,844
garden.

1073
00:38:48,864 --> 00:38:51,585
Because plants are limited by the absence of

1074
00:38:51,585 --> 00:38:52,889
any essential micronutrient,

1075
00:38:54,809 --> 00:38:56,109
micronutrient, these trace nutrients are

1076
00:38:56,489 --> 00:38:57,210
the difference between having a decent garden and

1077
00:38:57,210 --> 00:38:58,969
having a garden that makes you feel really

1078
00:38:58,969 --> 00:38:59,789
proud of your efforts.

1079
00:39:02,569 --> 00:39:04,909
Fish poop is a naturally complete solution

1080
00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:07,230
that fills in the cracks in your fertilizer

1081
00:39:07,289 --> 00:39:09,925
program to ensure that you offer your garden

1082
00:39:09,925 --> 00:39:11,465
a broad base of nutrients.

1083
00:39:12,484 --> 00:39:14,824
Not all fish poop is created equally.

1084
00:39:15,204 --> 00:39:18,085
Most products with added fish waste don't reveal

1085
00:39:18,085 --> 00:39:19,860
their sources or lab results.

1086
00:39:20,579 --> 00:39:22,680
Fish poop brand Fish poop, however,

1087
00:39:23,059 --> 00:39:25,640
generates their own fish waste as a byproduct

1088
00:39:25,780 --> 00:39:27,239
of their organic aquaponics

1089
00:39:27,539 --> 00:39:30,340
cannabis farm where they raise ornamental koi and

1090
00:39:30,340 --> 00:39:30,840
tilapia.

1091
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:34,099
You are even invited to tour their farm

1092
00:39:34,099 --> 00:39:36,405
in person or on their YouTube channel to

1093
00:39:36,405 --> 00:39:37,305
look for yourself.

1094
00:39:37,925 --> 00:39:39,144
This sort of transparency

1095
00:39:39,445 --> 00:39:41,785
is wildly rare in the fertilizer market.

1096
00:39:42,085 --> 00:39:44,825
The folks behind fish poop are also lifelong

1097
00:39:44,885 --> 00:39:47,925
medical cannabis producers who have deep connections in

1098
00:39:47,925 --> 00:39:48,585
the community,

1099
00:39:49,019 --> 00:39:51,659
donate more product than they sell, and support

1100
00:39:51,659 --> 00:39:55,679
cannabis prisoners, veteran, and patient collectives and charities.

1101
00:39:56,539 --> 00:39:58,960
To get your bottle of Pure Fish Poop,

1102
00:39:59,099 --> 00:40:01,119
go to fishpoop.com

1103
00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:04,155
or search for Fish Poop on Amazon or

1104
00:40:04,155 --> 00:40:05,755
walmart.com.

1105
00:40:05,755 --> 00:40:07,914
And to see their entire line of cannabis

1106
00:40:07,914 --> 00:40:11,454
products, go to ounceofhope.com.

1107
00:40:11,914 --> 00:40:14,494
That's Fish Poop brand fish poop.

1108
00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:20,670
The new finely screened living compost from Leighton

1109
00:40:20,670 --> 00:40:23,469
Morrison at Kingdom Aquaponics is in a product

1110
00:40:23,469 --> 00:40:25,090
category all by itself.

1111
00:40:25,949 --> 00:40:28,369
Nearly all compost you can buy is thermophilic,

1112
00:40:28,829 --> 00:40:31,090
meaning that the compost pile has been heated

1113
00:40:31,150 --> 00:40:32,025
in order to

1114
00:40:45,690 --> 00:40:48,250
So it still thrives with the phosphate and

1115
00:40:48,250 --> 00:40:49,469
potassium solubilizers,

1116
00:40:50,250 --> 00:40:53,210
degraders, and decomposers along with the more advanced

1117
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:54,589
nutrient cycling organisms.

1118
00:40:55,369 --> 00:40:57,769
But you might be thinking, Shango, if the

1119
00:40:57,769 --> 00:41:00,155
compost is never heated, isn't it filled with

1120
00:41:00,155 --> 00:41:02,014
pathogens that might hurt my garden?

1121
00:41:03,034 --> 00:41:06,554
All of Layton's compost components are specifically chosen

1122
00:41:06,554 --> 00:41:09,295
and pre processed to remove pathogens before

1123
00:41:09,594 --> 00:41:10,655
the cool mesophilic

1124
00:41:10,954 --> 00:41:12,094
composting process.

1125
00:41:12,715 --> 00:41:15,230
The mushroom substrate he uses is sterilized in

1126
00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:16,609
advance for growing mushrooms.

1127
00:41:16,989 --> 00:41:19,230
The wood fines are from shredded kiln dried

1128
00:41:19,230 --> 00:41:22,050
lumber and that kiln heat removes any pathogens.

1129
00:41:22,349 --> 00:41:24,989
And the repurposed Coco Coir is sterilized with

1130
00:41:24,989 --> 00:41:26,369
heat in advance too.

1131
00:41:27,005 --> 00:41:29,405
These materials are then combined with a mix

1132
00:41:29,405 --> 00:41:32,785
of worm castings, fish poop, and special biological

1133
00:41:33,085 --> 00:41:35,905
inoculants that Layton incubates and blends himself.

1134
00:41:36,605 --> 00:41:39,265
The resulting compost has biological stability,

1135
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:41,679
structure and water storage capacity,

1136
00:41:42,059 --> 00:41:45,039
is packed with nutrient cycling protozoa and nematodes,

1137
00:41:45,420 --> 00:41:48,380
and is fungal and bacteria rich, including purple

1138
00:41:48,380 --> 00:41:49,359
sulfur bacteria.

1139
00:41:49,819 --> 00:41:52,159
He even provides the biological reports.

1140
00:41:52,925 --> 00:41:55,985
This Ultra Premium Living Compost is for anyone

1141
00:41:56,045 --> 00:41:58,764
who wants to make compost teas, extracts, or

1142
00:41:58,764 --> 00:41:59,264
topdress.

1143
00:41:59,885 --> 00:42:03,025
You're getting three ingredients in one: worm castings,

1144
00:42:03,244 --> 00:42:06,445
fish mulm, and biologically active compost all in

1145
00:42:06,445 --> 00:42:07,184
one product.

1146
00:42:07,849 --> 00:42:10,410
Get it right the first time. Buy Living

1147
00:42:10,410 --> 00:42:14,269
Compost now at kingdomaquaponicsllc.com.

1148
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Available in three convenient sizes. That's Kingdom AquaponicsLLC

1149
00:42:19,449 --> 00:42:20,269
dot com.

1150
00:42:23,014 --> 00:42:26,135
As consumers become more educated and regulations become

1151
00:42:26,135 --> 00:42:28,494
more demanding, it is increasingly important to avoid

1152
00:42:28,494 --> 00:42:31,434
the use of chemical pesticides when cultivating cannabis.

1153
00:42:32,054 --> 00:42:34,454
Beneficial insects have been used for decades by

1154
00:42:34,454 --> 00:42:37,840
the greenhouse vegetable and plant industry and today

1155
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,480
many cannabis cultivators are moving from sprays and

1156
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,579
chemicals to beneficial insects.

1157
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:46,639
Natural Enemies has the beneficial insects, mites and

1158
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:47,139
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1159
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:48,179
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1160
00:42:48,545 --> 00:42:51,425
sticky cards and air distribution units you need

1161
00:42:51,425 --> 00:42:54,164
to partner with nature to defend your garden.

1162
00:42:54,625 --> 00:42:57,105
Whether you manage acres of canopy or have

1163
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a simple grow tent in your home, Natural

1164
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1165
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1166
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1167
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,619
Natural Enemies was founded in the cannabis industry

1168
00:43:10,679 --> 00:43:13,579
and continues to provide cannabis specific guidance.

1169
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Natural Enemies beneficial insects are grown with care

1170
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1172
00:43:22,855 --> 00:43:25,894
Coper has assisted growers in identifying pests and

1173
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devising reliable solutions

1174
00:43:27,815 --> 00:43:30,135
while providing healthy insects and mites that will

1175
00:43:30,135 --> 00:43:31,514
protect your yield.

1176
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Since the nineteen ninety's, Kopert has been a

1177
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1178
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and have highly trained consultants to assist you

1179
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1180
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1181
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Natural Enemies and Coppert can help. Visit naturalenemies.com

1182
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1183
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for health and good for business and Natural

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Enemies is ready to help. Visit naturalenemies.com

1186
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today.

1187
00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:02,300
Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire.

1188
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:04,860
I am your host, Shango Los. And my

1189
00:44:04,860 --> 00:44:06,400
guest today is neuropharmacologist,

1190
00:44:07,340 --> 00:44:08,480
Elizabeth Thompson.

1191
00:44:09,019 --> 00:44:09,500
So,

1192
00:44:09,980 --> 00:44:10,880
Liz, we

1193
00:44:11,180 --> 00:44:12,700
we were just starting to touch on the

1194
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:13,680
nervous system

1195
00:44:14,204 --> 00:44:15,805
as we went to commercial, and that's where

1196
00:44:15,805 --> 00:44:17,664
I wanna I wanna pick up.

1197
00:44:17,965 --> 00:44:20,385
And so, you know, you know, THC

1198
00:44:20,765 --> 00:44:22,945
begins binding to those CB

1199
00:44:23,244 --> 00:44:26,445
one receptors in the brain, and and those

1200
00:44:26,445 --> 00:44:29,679
are responsible for mood and memory and and

1201
00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:30,420
time perception.

1202
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,280
What is what you know, can you kind

1203
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,559
of explain to us a little bit what's

1204
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:35,460
happening biomechanically

1205
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,440
there? There must be a lot going on

1206
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,300
in that on that c b one receptor

1207
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,679
because it controls a lot of, you know,

1208
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:43,380
nervous and neurological stuff.

1209
00:44:43,885 --> 00:44:45,805
Yeah. It really does control a lot of

1210
00:44:45,805 --> 00:44:46,785
stuff. And, again,

1211
00:44:47,485 --> 00:44:50,525
context matters. So when we're talking about in

1212
00:44:50,525 --> 00:44:52,445
in your brain, so we're talking about moods

1213
00:44:52,445 --> 00:44:55,664
and stuff, different neuron types have different concentrations

1214
00:44:55,805 --> 00:44:57,644
of c b one receptors on them. For

1215
00:44:57,644 --> 00:45:01,210
example, like, dopamine receptors don't directly well, there's

1216
00:45:01,210 --> 00:45:04,089
been recent publications that say, potentially, they do.

1217
00:45:04,089 --> 00:45:04,589
But,

1218
00:45:05,210 --> 00:45:07,130
they would have a different concentration of c

1219
00:45:07,130 --> 00:45:08,030
b one receptors,

1220
00:45:08,489 --> 00:45:09,150
you know,

1221
00:45:09,449 --> 00:45:11,530
the GABA neurons. This like, all the different

1222
00:45:11,530 --> 00:45:13,369
neurons are a little bit different as far

1223
00:45:13,369 --> 00:45:13,869
as

1224
00:45:14,505 --> 00:45:16,444
how how the c b one receptors,

1225
00:45:18,264 --> 00:45:19,864
they function the same, but I guess it's

1226
00:45:19,864 --> 00:45:22,904
the concentration of them. Okay. So when you

1227
00:45:22,904 --> 00:45:24,764
look at how the c b one receptor

1228
00:45:25,224 --> 00:45:28,309
is working, again, for the context mattering in

1229
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:30,469
a concussion I'm just gonna talk about concussion

1230
00:45:30,469 --> 00:45:32,550
because that you have mood troubles. Right? Like,

1231
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:34,150
mood changes, and they have a lot of

1232
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:36,809
different things happening. So we know in concussion

1233
00:45:37,110 --> 00:45:38,250
that the neurotransmitter

1234
00:45:39,255 --> 00:45:40,954
glutamate is being oversecreted.

1235
00:45:41,255 --> 00:45:42,714
Right? So that's a neurotransmitter

1236
00:45:43,174 --> 00:45:46,074
where the presynaptic neuron is is

1237
00:45:46,454 --> 00:45:49,355
basically secreting into the synaptic space,

1238
00:45:50,054 --> 00:45:50,554
and

1239
00:45:51,094 --> 00:45:52,614
too much of it. So it's just it's

1240
00:45:52,614 --> 00:45:54,869
out of control. So your endocannabinoid

1241
00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:55,670
system,

1242
00:45:55,969 --> 00:45:57,349
naturally, from the postsynaptic

1243
00:45:57,730 --> 00:46:00,609
neuron is gonna secrete anandamide in two a

1244
00:46:00,609 --> 00:46:02,530
g, which travels in retrograde, hits the c

1245
00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:05,590
b one receptor, basically shuts the calcium channels,

1246
00:46:05,650 --> 00:46:07,429
and that shuts off the oversecretion

1247
00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:09,764
of glutamate, which is something that we would

1248
00:46:09,764 --> 00:46:11,204
want to do in concussion. And that was

1249
00:46:11,204 --> 00:46:13,684
actually the premise of our whole clinical trial

1250
00:46:13,684 --> 00:46:15,364
was, like, hey. Do you think we could

1251
00:46:15,364 --> 00:46:17,304
use these plant molecules? Because so

1252
00:46:17,605 --> 00:46:18,344
your endocannabinoid

1253
00:46:18,644 --> 00:46:20,505
system does that itself naturally

1254
00:46:20,804 --> 00:46:23,045
anytime you invoke some any kind of, you

1255
00:46:23,045 --> 00:46:25,030
know, oversecretion of glutamate.

1256
00:46:25,409 --> 00:46:25,909
But

1257
00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:28,769
what if you can't? What if you can't

1258
00:46:28,769 --> 00:46:31,250
actually hit those c b one receptors enough

1259
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:34,230
to turn down the volume of that oversecretion

1260
00:46:34,449 --> 00:46:36,369
of glutamate? And so that was my thought

1261
00:46:36,369 --> 00:46:38,655
was, well, couldn't we come in with an

1262
00:46:38,655 --> 00:46:41,454
exogenous molecule like THC, which we know is

1263
00:46:41,454 --> 00:46:41,954
stereochemically

1264
00:46:42,414 --> 00:46:44,994
similar to the naturally secreted endocannabinoids?

1265
00:46:45,614 --> 00:46:47,375
Couldn't we come in with that plant molecule

1266
00:46:47,375 --> 00:46:49,454
and hit that receptor, and then shut down

1267
00:46:49,454 --> 00:46:52,434
the oversecretion of glutamate as well? And so,

1268
00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:55,599
that's just one example. Now that's in the

1269
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:56,739
context of concussion.

1270
00:46:57,199 --> 00:47:00,019
When you're not concussed and you're just normal

1271
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:02,000
guy that's taking care of their brain and

1272
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,699
hasn't gotten smashed in the head,

1273
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:04,980
you're naturally,

1274
00:47:06,335 --> 00:47:07,714
we kind of say that

1275
00:47:08,094 --> 00:47:09,795
eighty percent of your brain

1276
00:47:10,255 --> 00:47:12,655
is the breaks that are holding back the

1277
00:47:12,655 --> 00:47:14,894
other 20% that's trying to, like, run away

1278
00:47:14,894 --> 00:47:16,914
crazy. Right? So, basically,

1279
00:47:17,614 --> 00:47:18,114
you're

1280
00:47:18,769 --> 00:47:21,650
you're under inhibitory control at baseline. Right? Like,

1281
00:47:21,650 --> 00:47:24,130
when you're normal. So when you're normal, your

1282
00:47:24,130 --> 00:47:26,369
GABA, which is the opposite of glutamate, which

1283
00:47:26,369 --> 00:47:28,449
is essentially the brakes of, you know, if

1284
00:47:28,449 --> 00:47:30,050
you think of it like a car, glutamate

1285
00:47:30,050 --> 00:47:31,809
would be the gas pedal. GABA would be

1286
00:47:31,809 --> 00:47:32,949
the brakes. Basically,

1287
00:47:33,494 --> 00:47:36,235
you're riding the brakes mostly at at baseline.

1288
00:47:36,535 --> 00:47:38,535
And now when you take THC, when you're

1289
00:47:38,535 --> 00:47:40,295
riding the brakes, you still hit that c

1290
00:47:40,295 --> 00:47:41,195
b one receptor.

1291
00:47:41,575 --> 00:47:43,595
And now it's gonna shut the calcium

1292
00:47:43,974 --> 00:47:46,295
channels, and what you're gonna stop secreting is

1293
00:47:46,295 --> 00:47:49,539
GABA. And now GABA is an inhibitory molecule.

1294
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,400
When you inhibit an inhibitor, you basically end

1295
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,400
up with an increase. Right? So you're inhibiting

1296
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,159
an inhibitor. So basically, what you're doing is

1297
00:47:56,159 --> 00:47:59,199
you're taking the brakes off. So now, what

1298
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:01,105
that does is it sends a signal to

1299
00:48:01,105 --> 00:48:03,505
the dopamine neurons to secrete dopamine, and that's

1300
00:48:03,505 --> 00:48:05,025
what is known as the high. Right? So

1301
00:48:05,025 --> 00:48:06,945
you're you're basically taking the brakes off, and

1302
00:48:06,945 --> 00:48:09,265
now dopamine secreted, and that's where you feel

1303
00:48:09,265 --> 00:48:12,065
good. Now the biphasic nature, again, if you

1304
00:48:12,065 --> 00:48:13,509
take the brakes off too much, you have

1305
00:48:13,509 --> 00:48:15,349
a runaway train. You just took away way

1306
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:16,869
too much of the brakes, and now there's

1307
00:48:16,949 --> 00:48:19,029
they're way too little GABA. And that's where

1308
00:48:19,029 --> 00:48:20,869
the anxiety and paranoia comes in. Right? And

1309
00:48:20,869 --> 00:48:23,190
that's the biphasic part of THC anyways is

1310
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:25,029
that, you know, it's the dose that makes

1311
00:48:25,029 --> 00:48:27,244
the poison in all medicines. And that is

1312
00:48:27,244 --> 00:48:29,324
said to be true also with cannabinoids because

1313
00:48:29,324 --> 00:48:30,945
they are just as pharmacologically

1314
00:48:31,324 --> 00:48:33,485
active as any other pharma drug we look

1315
00:48:33,485 --> 00:48:35,804
at. It's just that people have a hard

1316
00:48:35,804 --> 00:48:38,045
time wrapping their head around it because they're

1317
00:48:38,045 --> 00:48:40,525
available in society. Right? And they're coming from

1318
00:48:40,525 --> 00:48:42,460
a plant, but they are absolutely pharmacologically

1319
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:43,980
active and doing pharmacological

1320
00:48:44,359 --> 00:48:46,619
things the same way any other molecules are.

1321
00:48:46,679 --> 00:48:49,980
I wanna, just hit on the phrase biphasic

1322
00:48:50,279 --> 00:48:52,119
just for folks who are listening and and

1323
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:53,815
that's new to them. Because because we talk

1324
00:48:53,815 --> 00:48:55,094
about it quite a bit on this show.

1325
00:48:55,094 --> 00:48:58,215
But biphasic means that a little of something

1326
00:48:58,215 --> 00:49:00,215
is good and more of it is not

1327
00:49:00,215 --> 00:49:03,015
so good. And THC is in that way

1328
00:49:03,015 --> 00:49:05,414
in that if you take, you know, a

1329
00:49:05,414 --> 00:49:06,315
a a small

1330
00:49:06,614 --> 00:49:08,394
for you amount of it,

1331
00:49:09,590 --> 00:49:10,329
it will,

1332
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:13,110
you know, it's a euphoric and and and

1333
00:49:13,110 --> 00:49:15,510
it's opening creativity and joy and all of

1334
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:17,769
these all these good, positive feelings.

1335
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:19,929
But if you take more

1336
00:49:20,469 --> 00:49:22,570
than is appropriate for you,

1337
00:49:23,934 --> 00:49:25,454
It and to put it in your terms,

1338
00:49:25,454 --> 00:49:27,214
it it it it takes off all the

1339
00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:29,795
breaks and things get really loose and sloppy

1340
00:49:29,855 --> 00:49:31,855
to use my words. Yeah. And,

1341
00:49:32,255 --> 00:49:34,355
and and so you start to become

1342
00:49:34,734 --> 00:49:38,280
anxious and paranoid and and and things things

1343
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,920
go the wrong direction. Now for for for

1344
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,239
any of you who might be thinking, I

1345
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,400
smoke all day and that never happens to

1346
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,640
me. It's because you've got so much tolerance

1347
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,880
that you haven't been you're not experiencing the

1348
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,025
the far side of biphasic and maybe you

1349
00:49:52,025 --> 00:49:54,184
need to take a tolerance break. But but

1350
00:49:54,184 --> 00:49:56,025
for most folks who don't have a wicked

1351
00:49:56,025 --> 00:49:57,404
tolerance like I do,

1352
00:49:57,944 --> 00:49:59,545
you know, there is there is a point

1353
00:49:59,545 --> 00:50:01,244
where you've talked too much

1354
00:50:01,784 --> 00:50:02,284
and

1355
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:03,779
and and

1356
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:05,920
you you move it moves from being a

1357
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:06,420
euphoric

1358
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:07,359
to,

1359
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:09,380
what would that be? A dysphoric?

1360
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:12,480
Yep. Yep. Dysphoric. Yeah. And and CBD, that

1361
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,559
applies to CBD as well. It's not just

1362
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:17,135
THC. CBD is biphasic as well. People think

1363
00:50:17,135 --> 00:50:19,775
that CBD is sedating by nature, but it

1364
00:50:19,775 --> 00:50:21,934
actually is very biphasic. A small a low

1365
00:50:21,934 --> 00:50:23,795
amount of CBD is actually alerting.

1366
00:50:24,175 --> 00:50:26,335
Most people are stimulated by it. And if

1367
00:50:26,335 --> 00:50:28,175
you don't push the dose high enough, if

1368
00:50:28,175 --> 00:50:30,450
you're looking for sedation out of CBD, if

1369
00:50:30,450 --> 00:50:32,329
you don't push your dose high enough, you're

1370
00:50:32,329 --> 00:50:35,050
gonna accidentally stimulate yourself. So if people and

1371
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:36,730
this is where the education part comes in.

1372
00:50:36,730 --> 00:50:39,070
Right? And I'm super huge on educating consumers

1373
00:50:39,130 --> 00:50:40,510
about how to use their cannabinoids

1374
00:50:41,050 --> 00:50:43,224
the most optimal way possible. And you don't

1375
00:50:43,224 --> 00:50:44,824
want somebody thinking, okay. Well, I'm gonna go

1376
00:50:44,824 --> 00:50:46,585
use CBD because I need help getting to

1377
00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:48,264
sleep. And they take a tiny amount and

1378
00:50:48,264 --> 00:50:49,625
it stimulates them. They're trying to go to

1379
00:50:49,625 --> 00:50:50,824
bed and they're like, what is going on

1380
00:50:50,824 --> 00:50:52,425
here? Like, this is so not as if

1381
00:50:52,425 --> 00:50:54,525
they're setting up. I run into this all

1382
00:50:54,585 --> 00:50:57,244
the time with people who are buying CBD

1383
00:50:57,304 --> 00:50:59,609
gummies at the store. And then, like, they

1384
00:50:59,609 --> 00:51:01,609
never worked for me. I'm like, yes. Because

1385
00:51:01,609 --> 00:51:03,389
they're not they don't work like that.

1386
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:06,010
Right. Exactly. And and, again, that comes to

1387
00:51:06,010 --> 00:51:08,889
the personalized applications, you know, the personalized medicine

1388
00:51:08,889 --> 00:51:10,569
type of thing because it is a different

1389
00:51:10,569 --> 00:51:12,715
amount. So, you know, what is a high

1390
00:51:12,715 --> 00:51:15,114
amount? Well, it's relative to the person. Right?

1391
00:51:15,114 --> 00:51:16,554
So what is a high amount for me

1392
00:51:16,554 --> 00:51:18,394
might be a totally different high amount for

1393
00:51:18,394 --> 00:51:21,195
somebody else, right, for them. But it is

1394
00:51:21,195 --> 00:51:22,954
true that it's biphasic that in the lower

1395
00:51:22,954 --> 00:51:25,755
amount CBD is stimulating and alerting and in

1396
00:51:25,755 --> 00:51:28,079
a high amount, I mean, much higher than

1397
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,319
it can be sedating. But again, what is

1398
00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:32,159
what is much higher? Well, that depends on

1399
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:34,559
the person. Right? Some people, it's a lot

1400
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:35,699
lower than other people.

1401
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:36,659
So,

1402
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:38,579
let's move on to

1403
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,960
the oh, no. There is one more thing

1404
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:41,985
I wanted to hit here.

1405
00:51:43,465 --> 00:51:46,164
It's it's it's often thrown around that,

1406
00:51:47,105 --> 00:51:50,224
CBD can stop you from getting high. Right?

1407
00:51:50,224 --> 00:51:52,625
It's usually how it's delivered. But I don't

1408
00:51:52,625 --> 00:51:54,724
think most people understand the biomechanics

1409
00:51:55,025 --> 00:51:57,184
of really it's just about getting your turn

1410
00:51:57,184 --> 00:51:58,380
at the receptor.

1411
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,940
And would you would you give a brief

1412
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:01,579
explanation

1413
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:02,940
of how CBD

1414
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:03,820
slows

1415
00:52:04,199 --> 00:52:06,059
the progress of processing THC?

1416
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:08,380
Yeah. For sure. Actually,

1417
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,735
one so Robert Lepreri was actually actually one

1418
00:52:11,735 --> 00:52:14,315
of my PhD committee members, and he was

1419
00:52:14,855 --> 00:52:16,695
the person, I think it was in 2012,

1420
00:52:16,695 --> 00:52:19,755
that actually discovered this and published it. And

1421
00:52:19,894 --> 00:52:22,474
it was that CBD is a negative allosteric

1422
00:52:22,614 --> 00:52:24,474
modulator at the c b one receptor.

1423
00:52:24,775 --> 00:52:26,614
And that's a mouthful, but what it means

1424
00:52:26,614 --> 00:52:28,960
is so in pharmacology, when you're looking at

1425
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,599
a receptor, you basically have again, if you're

1426
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:33,519
thinking about it like a baby bird, the

1427
00:52:33,519 --> 00:52:35,840
beak is the orthosteric pocket, and that's what

1428
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,380
you're trying to hit with your molecule.

1429
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,519
Now the neck, that would be sort of

1430
00:52:39,844 --> 00:52:41,764
that's where the allosteric site is. It's on

1431
00:52:41,764 --> 00:52:43,464
the side of the receptor.

1432
00:52:43,844 --> 00:52:46,244
CBD hits the side of the CB one

1433
00:52:46,244 --> 00:52:48,644
receptor, and it turns the configuration of the

1434
00:52:48,644 --> 00:52:51,204
top of that receptor, which means THC can't

1435
00:52:51,204 --> 00:52:52,565
fit in there the same way that it

1436
00:52:52,565 --> 00:52:55,545
used to with when CBD wasn't on board.

1437
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,500
So by using some CBD,

1438
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,860
we can turn

1439
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,280
the we turn the orthosteric pocket slightly in

1440
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,119
three d, you know, in three d space,

1441
00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:05,900
which affects the way that THC

1442
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:08,925
can or cannot bind to the orthosteric pocket,

1443
00:53:08,925 --> 00:53:10,525
which is basically the bull's eye, right? That's

1444
00:53:10,525 --> 00:53:12,204
what you're trying to hit is the orthostatic

1445
00:53:12,204 --> 00:53:13,025
pocket. So

1446
00:53:14,605 --> 00:53:16,305
you need to have enough CBD

1447
00:53:16,765 --> 00:53:18,844
on board in order to do that to

1448
00:53:18,844 --> 00:53:20,445
stop, you know, if you're trying to reduce

1449
00:53:20,445 --> 00:53:22,699
any kind of cognitive impairment, you know, we

1450
00:53:22,699 --> 00:53:24,300
would say at least have a five to

1451
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:26,460
one ratio. You know, some people say four

1452
00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:28,539
to one. 20 to one is, you know,

1453
00:53:28,539 --> 00:53:31,019
common for people, you know, that don't want

1454
00:53:31,019 --> 00:53:32,219
a lot of THC. But,

1455
00:53:34,184 --> 00:53:36,825
yeah. So it it it CBD changes the

1456
00:53:36,825 --> 00:53:38,525
CB one receptor.

1457
00:53:39,065 --> 00:53:41,625
However, CBD does a lot of other things

1458
00:53:41,625 --> 00:53:43,325
outside of the CB one receptor,

1459
00:53:43,945 --> 00:53:46,025
you know, with direct agonism at some, you

1460
00:53:46,025 --> 00:53:47,789
know, the five HT t one a receptor,

1461
00:53:47,789 --> 00:53:49,869
p bar gamma, the TRP ones. Like, it's

1462
00:53:50,030 --> 00:53:52,110
CBD is doing it's very promiscuous. It's doing

1463
00:53:52,110 --> 00:53:53,250
a ton of different things.

1464
00:53:54,430 --> 00:53:56,110
I always love it when people say it's

1465
00:53:56,110 --> 00:53:56,610
promiscuous.

1466
00:53:56,910 --> 00:53:58,369
It seems so out of context.

1467
00:53:58,670 --> 00:54:00,795
Right? Right. I picture it, like, walking around

1468
00:54:00,795 --> 00:54:03,034
the bar with his sunglasses on. Like, yeah.

1469
00:54:03,034 --> 00:54:05,195
What are you doing? Yeah. I I just

1470
00:54:05,195 --> 00:54:06,255
like yeah.

1471
00:54:07,114 --> 00:54:08,954
Right on. So so let's move on to

1472
00:54:08,954 --> 00:54:11,835
our next, our next system. And and we've

1473
00:54:11,835 --> 00:54:13,914
actually pretty well hit it. The next one

1474
00:54:13,914 --> 00:54:15,809
I was gonna talk about was the ocular

1475
00:54:15,809 --> 00:54:17,650
system, but we've already talked about two of

1476
00:54:17,650 --> 00:54:19,269
the three things, which is one,

1477
00:54:19,809 --> 00:54:20,469
the vasodilation

1478
00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:23,730
causing the blood vessels to expand in the

1479
00:54:23,730 --> 00:54:24,550
eyes and,

1480
00:54:26,050 --> 00:54:28,369
and then also the the the the general,

1481
00:54:28,690 --> 00:54:31,170
muscle relaxation that comes to the face from

1482
00:54:31,170 --> 00:54:31,664
the THC.

1483
00:54:32,864 --> 00:54:34,224
But one of the things I wanted to

1484
00:54:34,224 --> 00:54:36,545
point on just because, we are both friends

1485
00:54:36,545 --> 00:54:38,085
with, Ethan Russo,

1486
00:54:38,625 --> 00:54:38,864
and,

1487
00:54:39,425 --> 00:54:41,184
I'm a big fan of his,

1488
00:54:41,505 --> 00:54:42,005
research,

1489
00:54:42,465 --> 00:54:44,304
from, 02/2003,

1490
00:54:44,304 --> 00:54:45,445
2004

1491
00:54:45,769 --> 00:54:47,309
showing that cannabis

1492
00:54:47,769 --> 00:54:48,269
improves

1493
00:54:48,969 --> 00:54:49,869
night vision.

1494
00:54:50,250 --> 00:54:52,510
And they did this research of keith smokers

1495
00:54:52,570 --> 00:54:54,750
in the Rif Mountains in Northern Morocco

1496
00:54:55,769 --> 00:54:57,630
because they would use hash

1497
00:54:58,170 --> 00:54:59,710
before they would

1498
00:55:00,010 --> 00:55:01,230
travel at night

1499
00:55:01,704 --> 00:55:03,005
because it would help them

1500
00:55:03,304 --> 00:55:05,964
see at night, which which honestly sounds like

1501
00:55:06,264 --> 00:55:09,545
Dungeons and Dragons magic. Right? Yeah. But but,

1502
00:55:09,704 --> 00:55:11,144
Jess, would you just hit on that just

1503
00:55:11,144 --> 00:55:12,605
for a moment, pharmacologically

1504
00:55:13,065 --> 00:55:13,964
why that happens?

1505
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:16,760
Yeah. So I I don't know if I

1506
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,539
know enough to speak specifically

1507
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,179
to why their vision would be improved

1508
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:22,539
necessarily. But,

1509
00:55:23,559 --> 00:55:24,920
if you think on and this is gonna

1510
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,679
get, like, way into the weeds. But if

1511
00:55:26,679 --> 00:55:28,724
you think about how your senses work, your

1512
00:55:28,724 --> 00:55:31,224
eyes, your ears, your nose, it's all essentially,

1513
00:55:32,325 --> 00:55:35,045
transmission of of ions. Right? Like, if you

1514
00:55:35,045 --> 00:55:37,065
think of how your vision works as wavelengths

1515
00:55:37,204 --> 00:55:39,364
of light, and those wavelengths of light are

1516
00:55:39,364 --> 00:55:41,785
activating neurons and causing a signal.

1517
00:55:42,085 --> 00:55:43,545
And so we know,

1518
00:55:44,170 --> 00:55:46,650
you know, epilepsy, for example, we know that

1519
00:55:46,650 --> 00:55:48,570
it can affect the ion exchange, and that's

1520
00:55:48,570 --> 00:55:50,489
how you calm the neurons down when babies

1521
00:55:50,489 --> 00:55:52,570
are having seizures. We can use cannabinoids to

1522
00:55:52,570 --> 00:55:54,170
do that. So we know that it's affecting

1523
00:55:54,170 --> 00:55:56,730
the ion channels. And so when you're thinking

1524
00:55:56,730 --> 00:55:59,389
about vision and how how you actually

1525
00:56:00,394 --> 00:56:03,114
interpret wavelengths of light, it comes down to

1526
00:56:03,114 --> 00:56:04,414
physics. And actually,

1527
00:56:05,195 --> 00:56:06,714
if you really drill down, so now I'm

1528
00:56:06,714 --> 00:56:08,954
going way past molecular mechanisms, and I'm going

1529
00:56:08,954 --> 00:56:10,414
into like quantum mechanics,

1530
00:56:10,795 --> 00:56:11,454
it is

1531
00:56:13,409 --> 00:56:16,289
it is actually fascinating how many things you

1532
00:56:16,289 --> 00:56:17,109
can change,

1533
00:56:17,409 --> 00:56:20,070
even especially and even in the endocannabinoid

1534
00:56:20,449 --> 00:56:23,650
system by changing ion channels. And what you're

1535
00:56:23,650 --> 00:56:26,050
doing there is you're changing its physics, right?

1536
00:56:26,050 --> 00:56:28,605
And we know in nerves, so again, in

1537
00:56:28,605 --> 00:56:31,244
your eyes, it starts as an action potential

1538
00:56:31,244 --> 00:56:33,405
and action potential is an energy. It is

1539
00:56:33,405 --> 00:56:35,405
not a chemical, it is an energy. And

1540
00:56:35,405 --> 00:56:37,085
so I could see there being a place

1541
00:56:37,085 --> 00:56:38,844
if I'm just thinking in my mind, like,

1542
00:56:38,844 --> 00:56:41,099
how would that work? Well, somehow,

1543
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:43,480
you know, and it's night vision as well.

1544
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,400
Like, I could see it working. But somehow

1545
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:46,599
I think it would get down to the

1546
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:49,339
wavelengths of light and the physics of it.

1547
00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:52,219
And having something to do there also,

1548
00:56:52,535 --> 00:56:53,894
you know, you would have kind of the

1549
00:56:53,894 --> 00:56:55,655
other things that are more broad, but, like,

1550
00:56:55,655 --> 00:56:59,015
you know, your sensations are all heightened. Right?

1551
00:56:59,015 --> 00:57:01,414
So they're able to to hear more, smell

1552
00:57:01,414 --> 00:57:03,335
more. It's just like when you, you know,

1553
00:57:03,335 --> 00:57:05,335
smoke and you go eat the munchies because

1554
00:57:05,335 --> 00:57:08,010
your taste is heightened. Everything is heightened. Right?

1555
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:10,889
So that things taste better. Sometimes things smell

1556
00:57:10,889 --> 00:57:13,469
better. Art seems to come better, but it's

1557
00:57:13,849 --> 00:57:16,329
it's down to the action potentials in those

1558
00:57:16,329 --> 00:57:17,710
neurons, which is essentially

1559
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:21,690
electro. You know, it's electric. And and in

1560
00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:25,025
that synopsis, you know, even even muscle movement,

1561
00:57:25,025 --> 00:57:27,025
it starts as an an action potential, which

1562
00:57:27,025 --> 00:57:29,105
is electricity, which then gets changed to a

1563
00:57:29,105 --> 00:57:31,605
chemical signal at the synopsis of the neuron.

1564
00:57:31,744 --> 00:57:33,585
And so in concussion, you know, we're we're

1565
00:57:33,585 --> 00:57:34,644
trying to control

1566
00:57:35,105 --> 00:57:36,805
the action potential, which is electricity.

1567
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:38,809
And I think that the endocannabinoid

1568
00:57:39,110 --> 00:57:41,450
system essentially is a it's like a transistor.

1569
00:57:41,590 --> 00:57:43,849
Like, you are controlling energy.

1570
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:47,989
You're sort of you're manipulating the electric loops,

1571
00:57:47,989 --> 00:57:48,489
basically.

1572
00:57:51,264 --> 00:57:52,625
That was great. When you said that you

1573
00:57:52,625 --> 00:57:54,144
were gonna take a left and go into

1574
00:57:54,144 --> 00:57:55,585
the weeds, I knew it was gonna be

1575
00:57:55,585 --> 00:57:56,324
good because

1576
00:57:56,625 --> 00:57:56,864
when,

1577
00:57:57,505 --> 00:57:59,824
when scientists just start riffing, that's that's kind

1578
00:57:59,824 --> 00:58:01,744
of my favorite part of the show. Well,

1579
00:58:01,744 --> 00:58:03,505
cool. None of that none of that has

1580
00:58:03,505 --> 00:58:05,025
data behind it, by the way. That's just

1581
00:58:05,025 --> 00:58:06,360
me thinking because I

1582
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,920
I really You you you are you are

1583
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,920
here as the person who has got the

1584
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,160
biggest picture of anybody who's in the room

1585
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:14,860
with us right now. Right? So

1586
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:16,200
so so so,

1587
00:58:16,599 --> 00:58:17,099
your,

1588
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,420
what do you call that? Your speculation

1589
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,474
is very valuable here. I wanna ask you

1590
00:58:22,474 --> 00:58:24,074
a follow-up question that I was gonna ask

1591
00:58:24,074 --> 00:58:25,835
you during the third set, but but since

1592
00:58:25,835 --> 00:58:29,114
you're talking about performance right now Yeah. And

1593
00:58:29,114 --> 00:58:31,695
and how it can expand with cannabis

1594
00:58:32,074 --> 00:58:33,055
Yeah. I was curious,

1595
00:58:33,929 --> 00:58:35,530
you know, coming at it from a like,

1596
00:58:35,530 --> 00:58:37,550
I know that you work with high performance

1597
00:58:37,609 --> 00:58:39,769
individuals, but let's think about the same thing

1598
00:58:39,769 --> 00:58:40,829
with, like, regular

1599
00:58:41,369 --> 00:58:42,589
performance individuals.

1600
00:58:43,050 --> 00:58:43,869
Right? Yeah.

1601
00:58:44,650 --> 00:58:45,309
You know,

1602
00:58:46,764 --> 00:58:48,764
some of us have had the experience of

1603
00:58:48,764 --> 00:58:50,784
of, you know, we like playing,

1604
00:58:51,644 --> 00:58:54,125
like, whatever our sport is. Let's say ultimate

1605
00:58:54,125 --> 00:58:56,925
Frisbee. Right? We like ultimate Frisbee. But but

1606
00:58:56,925 --> 00:58:58,545
when we play ultimate Frisbee

1607
00:58:58,860 --> 00:59:01,660
Frisbee a little stoned, we're epic at it

1608
00:59:01,660 --> 00:59:03,820
because we see all the trajectories so much

1609
00:59:03,820 --> 00:59:04,800
better. And,

1610
00:59:05,260 --> 00:59:06,860
you know, in my when I was younger

1611
00:59:06,860 --> 00:59:08,780
and I spent more time in bars, I

1612
00:59:08,780 --> 00:59:10,460
would hear that same thing about friends, and

1613
00:59:10,460 --> 00:59:12,764
they're they're playing pool. Right? Yeah. They'll be

1614
00:59:12,764 --> 00:59:13,804
all like, oh, I need to go out

1615
00:59:13,804 --> 00:59:15,085
and have a puff because we're gonna play

1616
00:59:15,085 --> 00:59:17,244
these guys for money or whatever. Right? Yeah.

1617
00:59:17,724 --> 00:59:20,304
And and yet, there is this biphasic

1618
00:59:20,764 --> 00:59:22,444
again, I'm not sure if it counts in

1619
00:59:22,444 --> 00:59:25,484
this place usage, but there there is this

1620
00:59:25,484 --> 00:59:28,179
point where you smoked too much. Yeah. And

1621
00:59:28,179 --> 00:59:30,920
your motor skills are lessened and your attention

1622
00:59:30,980 --> 00:59:34,199
lessens and and everything lessens. Right? Yeah.

1623
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:38,260
Is there a threshold point in us that

1624
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:39,480
that it it goes,

1625
00:59:39,780 --> 00:59:41,079
oh, now you're over?

1626
00:59:41,380 --> 00:59:43,360
I'm assuming that that it's a it's a

1627
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,204
it's a it's a it's not a a

1628
00:59:45,905 --> 00:59:48,625
single point threshold that there's a series of

1629
00:59:48,625 --> 00:59:50,465
thresholds, but I think you get nowhere I'm

1630
00:59:50,465 --> 00:59:52,965
go getting at. So what's this difference between,

1631
00:59:53,265 --> 00:59:57,525
you know, improved coordination reaction time versus, oh,

1632
00:59:57,585 --> 00:59:58,724
now I can't play?

1633
00:59:59,139 --> 01:00:02,099
Yeah. So, I mean, million dollar question. But,

1634
01:00:02,099 --> 01:00:04,820
again, I will say context matters. And because

1635
01:00:04,820 --> 01:00:06,820
we're talking about athletics, this is really my

1636
01:00:06,820 --> 01:00:08,840
wheelhouse, and this is places where I spend

1637
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:10,440
a lot of time thinking. But

1638
01:00:10,739 --> 01:00:13,394
if you think about what sport you're playing,

1639
01:00:13,454 --> 01:00:15,534
I think that changes the bull's eye target

1640
01:00:15,534 --> 01:00:17,554
of what you're trying to do with cannabinoids.

1641
01:00:18,014 --> 01:00:18,914
When you have

1642
01:00:19,295 --> 01:00:21,214
extreme sports, like I was a downhill ski

1643
01:00:21,214 --> 01:00:22,914
racer. Okay? Like you you

1644
01:00:23,375 --> 01:00:25,295
you cannot be afraid if you wanna go

1645
01:00:25,295 --> 01:00:27,214
as fast as possible and win, you better

1646
01:00:27,214 --> 01:00:29,199
chillax and just go as fast as you

1647
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:30,000
can. Now

1648
01:00:30,619 --> 01:00:33,260
using cannabinoids in that context can be quite

1649
01:00:33,260 --> 01:00:35,900
an advantage because you become very brave. And

1650
01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:37,980
now I have heard I have worked with

1651
01:00:37,980 --> 01:00:40,299
elite athletes that are goaltenders in certain things,

1652
01:00:40,299 --> 01:00:42,219
and it makes them very brave. They're not

1653
01:00:42,219 --> 01:00:44,655
afraid to take shots of things that are,

1654
01:00:44,655 --> 01:00:46,655
you know, like lacrosse balls that are really

1655
01:00:46,655 --> 01:00:48,335
hard. They're gonna hit you, whatever. It makes

1656
01:00:48,335 --> 01:00:49,635
them brave. And so

1657
01:00:50,255 --> 01:00:52,355
now in the context of those things,

1658
01:00:52,974 --> 01:00:53,954
can you surpass

1659
01:00:54,494 --> 01:00:57,039
the point of, you know, the optimal point

1660
01:00:57,039 --> 01:00:58,880
for sure? Because you don't want to make

1661
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,280
yourself more afraid. You want you're trying to

1662
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,099
be brave. Right? So there's definitely a threshold

1663
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:06,480
there for sure. And in in those types

1664
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,800
of extreme sports, what you'd be using it

1665
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:09,300
for

1666
01:01:09,755 --> 01:01:10,574
would be different

1667
01:01:10,875 --> 01:01:13,195
than something like pool. A pool, you're looking

1668
01:01:13,195 --> 01:01:13,934
for precision

1669
01:01:14,235 --> 01:01:16,474
in your muscle mechanics, right? You're looking for

1670
01:01:16,474 --> 01:01:18,715
precision on how you're moving your pool cue

1671
01:01:18,715 --> 01:01:20,555
and that that's different. You're not looking to

1672
01:01:20,555 --> 01:01:22,235
be brave, like, you don't have to be

1673
01:01:22,235 --> 01:01:23,994
brave to play pool. You're trying to be

1674
01:01:23,994 --> 01:01:26,480
precise. And so to hit the mark on

1675
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,059
that one, you're trying to probably

1676
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:31,619
you know, it's the same reason why CBG

1677
01:01:31,679 --> 01:01:34,339
sometimes works like in Ethan Russo's recent publication

1678
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,359
showing that increased memory verbal recall because it

1679
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:39,954
well, not because, but in association with it

1680
01:01:39,954 --> 01:01:42,614
reducing anxiety. Well, if you've reduced anxiety,

1681
01:01:42,914 --> 01:01:45,155
you have more capability to pay attention to

1682
01:01:45,155 --> 01:01:46,755
the things that are important, and then you

1683
01:01:46,755 --> 01:01:49,795
can retest with your rear memory recall. In

1684
01:01:49,795 --> 01:01:51,554
pool, I would argue that it could be

1685
01:01:51,554 --> 01:01:53,635
like that where you could use cannabinoids to

1686
01:01:53,635 --> 01:01:55,650
reduce the the background noise of all the

1687
01:01:55,650 --> 01:01:57,570
things that are distracting to when you're trying

1688
01:01:57,570 --> 01:01:59,989
to pay attention to this very precise movement.

1689
01:02:00,530 --> 01:02:03,489
Now another sport like pool would be, you

1690
01:02:03,489 --> 01:02:03,989
know,

1691
01:02:04,609 --> 01:02:07,329
those biathletes that have to do the shooting.

1692
01:02:07,329 --> 01:02:09,375
You know? You you need to hold really

1693
01:02:09,375 --> 01:02:10,275
still and focus.

1694
01:02:10,655 --> 01:02:12,414
And so I think some sports are more

1695
01:02:12,414 --> 01:02:14,574
effective than others. We look a lot at

1696
01:02:14,574 --> 01:02:17,295
contact sport athletes. And so we're looking for

1697
01:02:17,295 --> 01:02:18,594
the purposes of neuroinflammation

1698
01:02:18,974 --> 01:02:21,215
in the brain, you know, how cannabinoids can

1699
01:02:21,215 --> 01:02:22,275
work for that.

1700
01:02:22,574 --> 01:02:24,034
And and my big question

1701
01:02:24,619 --> 01:02:27,199
for that is exactly like you said, okay,

1702
01:02:27,579 --> 01:02:29,280
we know it can reduce neuroinflammation.

1703
01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:31,739
And we know well, I mean, we think

1704
01:02:31,739 --> 01:02:33,420
right, we know in mice, we've conked mice

1705
01:02:33,420 --> 01:02:34,619
in the head, and we know that we

1706
01:02:34,619 --> 01:02:36,079
can we it reduces neuroinflammation,

1707
01:02:36,380 --> 01:02:38,460
all these things, but mice are not elite

1708
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:38,960
performers.

1709
01:02:39,405 --> 01:02:40,684
And at the end of the day, when

1710
01:02:40,684 --> 01:02:43,405
you have a 50,000 or a $50,000,000

1711
01:02:43,405 --> 01:02:43,905
athlete,

1712
01:02:44,364 --> 01:02:47,085
you cannot screw up his reflexes. You cannot

1713
01:02:47,085 --> 01:02:48,925
screw up his cognitive ability to make a

1714
01:02:48,925 --> 01:02:51,164
play. You cannot screw up all of these

1715
01:02:51,164 --> 01:02:53,485
other things, like his reaction time and all

1716
01:02:53,485 --> 01:02:54,304
those things.

1717
01:02:55,369 --> 01:02:57,369
The trade off is so you have to

1718
01:02:57,369 --> 01:02:59,469
be so careful. Right? And cannabinoids

1719
01:03:00,010 --> 01:03:01,769
can help, but they can also get you

1720
01:03:01,769 --> 01:03:03,469
off your game. Right? And so

1721
01:03:04,090 --> 01:03:06,090
you that is the million dollar question is

1722
01:03:06,090 --> 01:03:08,315
how do you use these, you know, to

1723
01:03:08,315 --> 01:03:11,114
help with these athletes specific to their sport

1724
01:03:11,114 --> 01:03:12,795
in the best possible way? And I know

1725
01:03:12,795 --> 01:03:13,295
basketball,

1726
01:03:13,835 --> 01:03:15,054
to part of my PhD

1727
01:03:15,355 --> 01:03:17,434
research, I actually did a lot of interviews

1728
01:03:17,434 --> 01:03:19,275
with high level athletes and, you know, so

1729
01:03:19,275 --> 01:03:20,795
I got a lot of really good firsthand

1730
01:03:20,795 --> 01:03:22,690
information. And we all know, I mean, it's

1731
01:03:22,690 --> 01:03:24,530
no secret that the NBA, they have a

1732
01:03:24,530 --> 01:03:26,789
lot of cannabis use, right?

1733
01:03:27,170 --> 01:03:28,849
And a lot of I think a lot

1734
01:03:28,849 --> 01:03:31,170
of fans are like, man, you know, they're

1735
01:03:31,170 --> 01:03:33,890
such good players with cannabis. Imagine how good

1736
01:03:33,890 --> 01:03:35,864
they would be without it. But that's actually

1737
01:03:35,864 --> 01:03:37,784
not true. When you ask them, like, so

1738
01:03:37,784 --> 01:03:39,545
why do you use you know, why are

1739
01:03:39,545 --> 01:03:42,265
you using cannabis products before practice or before

1740
01:03:42,265 --> 01:03:44,344
games? And they don't say it's to enhance

1741
01:03:44,344 --> 01:03:46,525
a performance. They say it's to feel normal.

1742
01:03:46,985 --> 01:03:48,570
They bring themselves into

1743
01:03:49,530 --> 01:03:51,930
range that to them is where they normally

1744
01:03:51,930 --> 01:03:53,289
perform. And that to me was so interesting

1745
01:03:53,289 --> 01:03:54,269
because it was like,

1746
01:03:56,730 --> 01:03:58,329
Not at all what I was expecting to

1747
01:03:58,329 --> 01:04:00,730
hear. That reminds me more of, like, state

1748
01:04:00,730 --> 01:04:02,969
dependent learning, how we used to say, well,

1749
01:04:02,969 --> 01:04:04,954
if we studied stone, we should go take

1750
01:04:04,954 --> 01:04:07,515
the exam stone in college. Right? Right. It

1751
01:04:07,515 --> 01:04:08,894
reminds me a lot of that.

1752
01:04:09,355 --> 01:04:10,954
Yeah. And and it could be that, you

1753
01:04:10,954 --> 01:04:13,114
know, because they've always played that way, that's

1754
01:04:13,114 --> 01:04:14,875
what how they feel normal. But it could

1755
01:04:14,875 --> 01:04:17,114
also be that it's knocking out a lot

1756
01:04:17,114 --> 01:04:18,795
of background noise, and they can get into

1757
01:04:18,795 --> 01:04:21,010
what we call flow. It's where you're just

1758
01:04:21,010 --> 01:04:22,769
moving in your body is moving, and you're

1759
01:04:22,769 --> 01:04:25,650
making reactions, you're making plays, and nothing else

1760
01:04:25,650 --> 01:04:28,609
is penetrating your mind. But this game, and

1761
01:04:28,609 --> 01:04:30,289
actually sports remind me a lot of the

1762
01:04:30,289 --> 01:04:30,789
endocannabinoid

1763
01:04:31,170 --> 01:04:33,010
system, because sports is one of the only

1764
01:04:33,010 --> 01:04:34,630
places in the world where

1765
01:04:35,545 --> 01:04:38,425
it is happening here and now. It is

1766
01:04:38,425 --> 01:04:39,864
not based on the past. It is not

1767
01:04:39,864 --> 01:04:41,545
based on the future. It is right now.

1768
01:04:41,545 --> 01:04:43,144
We don't know who's gonna win. We don't

1769
01:04:43,144 --> 01:04:44,585
know what the next play is, and the

1770
01:04:44,585 --> 01:04:45,085
endocannabinoid

1771
01:04:45,385 --> 01:04:47,864
system is the same way. Your endocannabinoid system

1772
01:04:47,864 --> 01:04:49,860
is working in the here and now. It

1773
01:04:49,860 --> 01:04:52,420
is compensatory, and it is secreting, and it

1774
01:04:52,420 --> 01:04:54,900
is reducing in the here and now. And

1775
01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:56,820
so when you kind of take a broader

1776
01:04:56,820 --> 01:04:58,820
look at it, it's really interesting to me

1777
01:04:58,820 --> 01:05:00,260
how we could you know, how these things

1778
01:05:00,260 --> 01:05:01,940
all kind of overlap, maybe more at a

1779
01:05:01,940 --> 01:05:02,440
philosophical

1780
01:05:02,740 --> 01:05:03,300
level. But

1781
01:05:04,355 --> 01:05:06,594
Well, they do overlap. And this is perfect

1782
01:05:06,594 --> 01:05:08,755
because the the next system I wanted to

1783
01:05:08,755 --> 01:05:11,795
talk about was psychological and cognitive states. Right?

1784
01:05:11,795 --> 01:05:13,974
And that's that's right where we're moving into.

1785
01:05:14,434 --> 01:05:16,755
You know, the the the the literature on

1786
01:05:16,755 --> 01:05:19,670
this often refers to it as neuro chemical

1787
01:05:20,369 --> 01:05:23,170
rebalancing. Right? Which Yeah. Which, you know, it's

1788
01:05:23,170 --> 01:05:23,909
interesting because because

1789
01:05:24,289 --> 01:05:25,489
that's a new term to me, which I

1790
01:05:25,489 --> 01:05:26,929
love. I think of it more as, like,

1791
01:05:26,929 --> 01:05:30,869
you know, changes in focus, sensory awareness, like,

1792
01:05:31,010 --> 01:05:33,969
of slowing time, getting the giggles, or or

1793
01:05:33,969 --> 01:05:34,949
feeling philosophical.

1794
01:05:35,295 --> 01:05:37,534
Like, we'll talk about, oh, you know, this

1795
01:05:37,534 --> 01:05:39,214
kind of canvas might put you in this

1796
01:05:39,214 --> 01:05:40,974
mood or that mood. And I tend to

1797
01:05:40,974 --> 01:05:43,855
think that, okay, sure, there's some there's some

1798
01:05:43,855 --> 01:05:47,135
research on on terpenes and and esters and

1799
01:05:47,135 --> 01:05:49,295
things like that. But but more more than

1800
01:05:49,295 --> 01:05:52,049
anything, I think it really depends on the

1801
01:05:52,049 --> 01:05:53,109
person themselves

1802
01:05:53,409 --> 01:05:55,250
who was using it. I love your example

1803
01:05:55,250 --> 01:05:57,010
earlier about the soil that you put the

1804
01:05:57,010 --> 01:05:58,769
seed in. Right? Yeah. If the person is

1805
01:05:58,769 --> 01:06:01,109
the soil and the THC and the cannabinoids

1806
01:06:01,170 --> 01:06:03,325
are the seed, you know, it really depends

1807
01:06:03,325 --> 01:06:04,605
on what kind of soil you'll put the

1808
01:06:04,605 --> 01:06:06,364
seed in, what it's going to grow into.

1809
01:06:06,364 --> 01:06:08,285
I will be using that a lot. Yeah.

1810
01:06:08,285 --> 01:06:11,105
And and but this idea of neurochemical

1811
01:06:11,565 --> 01:06:13,885
rebalancing at speed, I wanted to ask you

1812
01:06:13,885 --> 01:06:14,704
about specifically

1813
01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:17,380
as as, you know, a neuropharmacologist.

1814
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:20,420
This this is this is your turf. Right?

1815
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:22,340
What does neurochemical

1816
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:23,380
rebalancing

1817
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:24,260
mean?

1818
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,820
And what does what does that,

1819
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:28,980
how does that show up

1820
01:06:29,894 --> 01:06:30,715
in the first

1821
01:06:31,094 --> 01:06:32,775
few minutes, let's say, in the first five

1822
01:06:32,775 --> 01:06:34,155
minutes after we toque?

1823
01:06:35,175 --> 01:06:37,835
Yeah. So, again, you have to think about,

1824
01:06:38,375 --> 01:06:41,015
the context of what you're you're talking about.

1825
01:06:41,015 --> 01:06:43,335
Right? So when you toque before you took

1826
01:06:43,335 --> 01:06:44,635
that toque, your your

1827
01:06:44,980 --> 01:06:46,900
brain was sitting at a baseline level. So

1828
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:48,500
we'll just call it your baseline level. So

1829
01:06:48,500 --> 01:06:50,820
you had neurotransmitters that were just kind of

1830
01:06:50,820 --> 01:06:53,800
humming along, like your serotonin, dopamine, GABA, glutamate,

1831
01:06:53,860 --> 01:06:56,260
all of those things. So when you take

1832
01:06:56,260 --> 01:06:59,315
a tote, now you've introduced a signaling molecule

1833
01:06:59,315 --> 01:07:02,195
that actually reacts with, like and depending again,

1834
01:07:02,195 --> 01:07:03,974
like you said, whatever whatever

1835
01:07:04,275 --> 01:07:06,855
the cannabis profile was is actually gonna be

1836
01:07:06,914 --> 01:07:08,755
different as what the signals are. But once

1837
01:07:08,755 --> 01:07:11,769
you introduce it, it's starting to hit targets

1838
01:07:11,909 --> 01:07:14,550
on all of those different neurons in your

1839
01:07:14,550 --> 01:07:16,250
brain that actually control

1840
01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:18,010
the secretion of

1841
01:07:18,309 --> 01:07:21,429
serotonin, dopamine, glutamate, GABA. So what you're doing

1842
01:07:21,429 --> 01:07:22,409
is you're changing

1843
01:07:22,894 --> 01:07:24,894
the bait the resting baseline. So you can

1844
01:07:24,894 --> 01:07:27,315
call it rebalancing, you can call it unbalancing,

1845
01:07:27,614 --> 01:07:28,974
you can call it you know, there's a

1846
01:07:28,974 --> 01:07:30,494
lot of different words that you can use.

1847
01:07:30,494 --> 01:07:32,014
But at the end of the day, you're

1848
01:07:32,014 --> 01:07:34,175
sending in a new signal, and we use

1849
01:07:34,175 --> 01:07:35,934
it. That is why we're do looking at

1850
01:07:35,934 --> 01:07:37,775
it for a clinical trial because we want

1851
01:07:37,775 --> 01:07:40,329
to use this signal to our advantage to

1852
01:07:40,329 --> 01:07:43,369
turn to reduce the glutamate secretion, which in

1853
01:07:43,369 --> 01:07:45,530
concussion is totally out of control. Now, if

1854
01:07:45,530 --> 01:07:46,670
you're looking at anxiety

1855
01:07:46,969 --> 01:07:50,349
or depression or other mood dysregulations,

1856
01:07:51,385 --> 01:07:52,765
When things are dysregulated

1857
01:07:53,144 --> 01:07:54,684
in your neurotransmitter

1858
01:07:55,144 --> 01:07:57,224
profile, we can use cannabinoids to try to

1859
01:07:57,224 --> 01:08:00,025
change that and reregulate it, which is what

1860
01:08:00,025 --> 01:08:02,744
you're referring to as a reregulation because your

1861
01:08:02,744 --> 01:08:04,440
body at the end of the day, the

1862
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,940
end game for your body is to survive

1863
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,500
and to and it's to be in homeostasis,

1864
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,359
which means balance. And so when things are

1865
01:08:12,359 --> 01:08:14,679
out of balance, your body is looking to

1866
01:08:14,679 --> 01:08:16,439
re regulate it to bring it back to

1867
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:18,840
homeostasis. And that's why the endocannabinoid system is

1868
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:20,494
truly so fascinating because,

1869
01:08:21,354 --> 01:08:23,994
there's so many avenues to doing that. And

1870
01:08:23,994 --> 01:08:26,395
and there's and because it it is, you

1871
01:08:26,395 --> 01:08:29,354
know, the active participants are your neurons. It

1872
01:08:29,354 --> 01:08:30,095
is a neuromodulator,

1873
01:08:30,795 --> 01:08:32,414
but it's also an immunomodulator,

1874
01:08:33,034 --> 01:08:34,850
which is all your immune system. I think

1875
01:08:34,850 --> 01:08:37,250
people sometimes ignore the immune system part, but

1876
01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,070
that's everything.

1877
01:08:38,770 --> 01:08:41,170
All pathologies in our body are because either

1878
01:08:41,170 --> 01:08:42,869
one or the other of those are dysregulated.

1879
01:08:43,090 --> 01:08:45,090
I mean, cancer is a perfect example. Right?

1880
01:08:45,090 --> 01:08:47,215
Like, when when you have something that's gone

1881
01:08:47,215 --> 01:08:49,215
awry in a tissue or in a nerve

1882
01:08:49,215 --> 01:08:51,854
or in anything, your immune system now is

1883
01:08:51,854 --> 01:08:53,694
activated. And you know, these cells go out

1884
01:08:53,694 --> 01:08:55,534
of control in cancer, but your immune system

1885
01:08:55,534 --> 01:08:58,034
is responding to that. Right? So the crosstalk

1886
01:08:58,095 --> 01:08:59,314
between those two

1887
01:08:59,619 --> 01:09:01,640
is is super important. And so

1888
01:09:02,020 --> 01:09:04,340
it's important to remember both pieces, you know,

1889
01:09:04,340 --> 01:09:06,340
not not just the neuro part, but also

1890
01:09:06,340 --> 01:09:08,500
the immune system part. And so in your

1891
01:09:08,500 --> 01:09:11,239
brain, where we're talking about mood and stuff,

1892
01:09:11,380 --> 01:09:13,319
you know, it's only just very recently

1893
01:09:13,765 --> 01:09:17,045
that we've given any credence to the other

1894
01:09:17,045 --> 01:09:19,385
parts of the brain other than the neuron.

1895
01:09:19,524 --> 01:09:20,885
So we have the neuron, and for a

1896
01:09:20,885 --> 01:09:22,324
long time, people you know, it was all

1897
01:09:22,324 --> 01:09:24,805
SSRI inhibitors, which, again, it's like, you know,

1898
01:09:24,805 --> 01:09:26,725
k. Yeah. You can inhibit the reuptake of

1899
01:09:26,725 --> 01:09:28,560
serotonin. That's fine. But, like, if you don't

1900
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,600
have serotonin receptors to hit, or there's something

1901
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,000
wrong with your serotonin receptors, that's not doing

1902
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:35,520
you a lot of good to, you know,

1903
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,439
slow down the reuptake. It's like, it's this

1904
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,300
myopic view of the entire

1905
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,680
thing. Right? And I think pharmacy has gotten

1906
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,085
a little bit myopic on what they're looking

1907
01:09:44,085 --> 01:09:46,404
at instead of you have to remember that,

1908
01:09:46,404 --> 01:09:48,744
like and the endocannabinoid system is amazing

1909
01:09:49,204 --> 01:09:52,085
in considering that because it's very evident that,

1910
01:09:52,085 --> 01:09:53,925
you know, yes, there's the ligands that we

1911
01:09:53,925 --> 01:09:55,684
secrete, which are an andamide and two a

1912
01:09:55,684 --> 01:09:56,824
g just for simplicity.

1913
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:58,579
But the receptor

1914
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,920
concentration and the receptor availability is also super

1915
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,399
important, and that's easily displayed by tolerance. We

1916
01:10:04,399 --> 01:10:07,619
know we're changing the receptor concentration, but also

1917
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,320
the enzymes that are required to make the

1918
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,244
ligands. Well, that's also something that's super important.

1919
01:10:13,244 --> 01:10:15,324
Right? So it's not just about the neuron,

1920
01:10:15,324 --> 01:10:17,564
but what we've ignored in mood dysfunctions and

1921
01:10:17,564 --> 01:10:19,965
stuff up until very recently is all the

1922
01:10:19,965 --> 01:10:22,204
other players in your brain, which other than

1923
01:10:22,204 --> 01:10:23,904
the neuron that's secreting the neurotransmitter,

1924
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:27,030
your neurons, they have astrocytes. So all the

1925
01:10:27,030 --> 01:10:29,430
glial cells, which are astrocytes, which are basically

1926
01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:31,670
like providing energy to the neuron and making

1927
01:10:31,670 --> 01:10:34,090
sure the neurons got enough for metabolic processes,

1928
01:10:34,390 --> 01:10:36,550
but also those microglial cells, which are the

1929
01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:38,864
resident immune cells in your brain, We are

1930
01:10:38,864 --> 01:10:41,104
now starting to have some really good data

1931
01:10:41,104 --> 01:10:43,125
and research to show, like, when your microglia

1932
01:10:43,344 --> 01:10:45,264
are freaking out in your brain, that is

1933
01:10:45,264 --> 01:10:47,824
not a happy situation because it is freaking

1934
01:10:47,904 --> 01:10:50,784
it it starts throwing pro inflammatory cytokines and

1935
01:10:50,784 --> 01:10:52,784
chemokines, and what that does is it aggravates

1936
01:10:52,784 --> 01:10:54,300
the neuron. So now the neuron starts

1937
01:10:54,679 --> 01:10:56,840
throwing more pro inflammatory things, and this is

1938
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,179
just like this big snowball feed forward effect.

1939
01:10:59,399 --> 01:11:01,579
We now know that mood dysregulations

1940
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,079
actually have the microglia are super perturbed. So

1941
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:07,000
we always, you know, for the last, whatever,

1942
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,375
30 is all about the neuron. But, like,

1943
01:11:09,534 --> 01:11:11,055
I mean, way back when we used to

1944
01:11:11,055 --> 01:11:12,895
throw out the glial cells and be like,

1945
01:11:12,895 --> 01:11:14,654
yeah. This isn't important. Let's just study the

1946
01:11:14,654 --> 01:11:15,635
neurons. It's like,

1947
01:11:15,935 --> 01:11:17,935
those are really important. Like, we should not

1948
01:11:17,935 --> 01:11:19,454
have been throwing them out, and we're just

1949
01:11:19,454 --> 01:11:21,215
kinda catching up, I think, now. What a

1950
01:11:21,215 --> 01:11:23,475
crazy idea that, like, you know,

1951
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,159
you toke and maybe you get in a

1952
01:11:26,159 --> 01:11:28,079
little of a little funk instead of the

1953
01:11:28,079 --> 01:11:29,059
normal good mood.

1954
01:11:29,359 --> 01:11:30,960
And you can think about it as, like,

1955
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:32,819
oh, my glia are over

1956
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:33,859
antagonized.

1957
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,395
Right. It really I mean, it really gets

1958
01:11:37,395 --> 01:11:39,255
down to our mechanics right

1959
01:11:39,555 --> 01:11:41,635
there. Yes. And they have their own Like,

1960
01:11:41,635 --> 01:11:44,515
your microglia and your astrocytes have their own

1961
01:11:44,515 --> 01:11:45,015
endocannabinoid

1962
01:11:45,635 --> 01:11:49,074
functions. Like, they themselves secrete anandamide and two

1963
01:11:49,074 --> 01:11:52,114
AG, and they themselves have CB receptors on

1964
01:11:52,114 --> 01:11:54,029
it. Right? And so when you're looking at

1965
01:11:54,109 --> 01:11:56,109
and then you go right down to, like,

1966
01:11:56,109 --> 01:11:58,109
even the mitochondria, which, you know, we all

1967
01:11:58,109 --> 01:12:00,510
know from grade school biology. That's the powerhouse

1968
01:12:00,510 --> 01:12:02,989
of your cell. That's where the electron transport

1969
01:12:02,989 --> 01:12:05,550
chain happens. It produces ATP, which is the

1970
01:12:05,550 --> 01:12:07,489
energy of your brain. Again,

1971
01:12:08,005 --> 01:12:11,305
electron transport. Now we're getting into energies. Right?

1972
01:12:11,524 --> 01:12:12,345
Those mitochondria

1973
01:12:12,725 --> 01:12:14,725
have c b one receptors on them as

1974
01:12:14,725 --> 01:12:17,125
well, and that is inside the cell. That

1975
01:12:17,125 --> 01:12:18,725
isn't even a risk a c b one

1976
01:12:18,725 --> 01:12:20,725
receptor on the outside of the cell. This

1977
01:12:20,725 --> 01:12:22,725
is a separate population of c b one

1978
01:12:22,725 --> 01:12:25,739
receptors that are inside the cells in the

1979
01:12:25,739 --> 01:12:29,500
mitochondria. And your mitochondria are driving absolutely everything

1980
01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:30,320
in your body.

1981
01:12:30,699 --> 01:12:32,320
Most most importantly,

1982
01:12:32,699 --> 01:12:34,780
your brain. When we have brain fog, quote,

1983
01:12:34,780 --> 01:12:37,574
unquote, when we have concussion, quote, unquote, your

1984
01:12:37,574 --> 01:12:40,875
mitochondria cannot produce enough ATP, which is essentially

1985
01:12:40,935 --> 01:12:43,414
the gas that's running your whole system. So

1986
01:12:43,414 --> 01:12:45,414
if we can do things that support that

1987
01:12:45,414 --> 01:12:46,635
to create more ATP,

1988
01:12:47,255 --> 01:12:49,414
then, you know, that's a benefit to us.

1989
01:12:49,414 --> 01:12:51,639
And that's where, like, the ketogenic diet and

1990
01:12:51,639 --> 01:12:53,639
fasting and all those other things come in

1991
01:12:53,639 --> 01:12:55,880
because we're able to start using fat as

1992
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,279
a fuel source to create that ATP. Now

1993
01:12:58,279 --> 01:12:59,739
I personally think the endocannabinoid

1994
01:13:00,119 --> 01:13:01,659
system is a bridger between

1995
01:13:02,039 --> 01:13:04,199
using fats as a fuel source, which is

1996
01:13:04,199 --> 01:13:05,625
a much higher dense

1997
01:13:06,104 --> 01:13:06,904
it's a dense,

1998
01:13:07,704 --> 01:13:10,125
amount of ATP compared to, like, a carbohydrate

1999
01:13:10,345 --> 01:13:12,765
source. Right? And so in athletes, that's everything.

2000
01:13:12,984 --> 01:13:14,904
If you can provide your system with more

2001
01:13:14,904 --> 01:13:18,045
ATP, you are winning races. Now glycolytic

2002
01:13:18,930 --> 01:13:21,170
sports are fast twitch muscle. That's different. Now

2003
01:13:21,170 --> 01:13:23,250
you're going anaerobic. Right? And so you need

2004
01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:25,329
your creatine. That's a whole different thing. If

2005
01:13:25,329 --> 01:13:27,650
you're a long distance athlete and you can

2006
01:13:27,650 --> 01:13:30,289
pull on fat stores to give yourself, like,

2007
01:13:30,289 --> 01:13:31,489
a 132

2008
01:13:31,489 --> 01:13:31,989
ATP

2009
01:13:32,534 --> 01:13:34,954
versus the 32 you would get from carbohydrate,

2010
01:13:35,094 --> 01:13:37,295
that's a win, because you you are going

2011
01:13:37,295 --> 01:13:40,295
to fuel yourself better and longer. Endocannabin your

2012
01:13:40,295 --> 01:13:43,015
endocannabinoid system is in control of all the

2013
01:13:43,015 --> 01:13:43,515
bioenergetics

2014
01:13:43,895 --> 01:13:45,869
in your body as well. And that's why,

2015
01:13:45,949 --> 01:13:47,710
you know, it was a tragic example. But

2016
01:13:47,710 --> 01:13:48,210
romanobant

2017
01:13:48,909 --> 01:13:50,989
was a drug by Sanofi that was pulled

2018
01:13:50,989 --> 01:13:52,510
off the shelf in 2012.

2019
01:13:52,510 --> 01:13:54,510
It was a it was a fantastic weight

2020
01:13:54,510 --> 01:13:56,430
loss drug, but it was a c b

2021
01:13:56,430 --> 01:13:59,324
one inverse agonist. And so it was a

2022
01:13:59,324 --> 01:14:01,805
big lesson to everybody in pharmacy. Like, you

2023
01:14:01,805 --> 01:14:04,065
can't just go like the thought was, okay,

2024
01:14:04,525 --> 01:14:06,125
you hit the c b one receptor with

2025
01:14:06,125 --> 01:14:08,125
THC and you agonize it and everybody gets

2026
01:14:08,125 --> 01:14:09,965
the munchies. Right? You're hungry. Yeah. Well, the

2027
01:14:09,965 --> 01:14:10,704
thought was,

2028
01:14:11,130 --> 01:14:13,369
well, what if we just block it or

2029
01:14:13,369 --> 01:14:15,369
antagonize it? It was an inverse agonist. So

2030
01:14:15,369 --> 01:14:16,189
the thought was,

2031
01:14:16,649 --> 01:14:18,489
let's make it do the opposite. So would

2032
01:14:18,489 --> 01:14:20,570
we get, like, the reverse munchies? So they

2033
01:14:20,570 --> 01:14:22,409
used an inverse agonist on the c b

2034
01:14:22,409 --> 01:14:25,204
one receptor. And it was a fantastic weight

2035
01:14:25,204 --> 01:14:27,604
loss drug. It was. People lost weight, a

2036
01:14:27,604 --> 01:14:29,445
ton of weight. But you lost all the

2037
01:14:29,445 --> 01:14:31,704
other advantages you get from having that on.

2038
01:14:31,845 --> 01:14:34,085
Well, the problem was, yeah, you lost all

2039
01:14:34,085 --> 01:14:37,500
those advantages, but it caused suicidal ideation and

2040
01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:38,479
mental dysfunction.

2041
01:14:39,659 --> 01:14:41,420
So that is a big lesson to, like,

2042
01:14:41,420 --> 01:14:43,659
we are not playing in a tiny space

2043
01:14:43,659 --> 01:14:46,219
here, and that was a tragic event. Right?

2044
01:14:46,219 --> 01:14:47,739
So it got pulled off the shelf. It

2045
01:14:47,739 --> 01:14:50,085
never passed the FDA approval in The States.

2046
01:14:50,324 --> 01:14:52,005
But what was really fascinating, and we could

2047
01:14:52,005 --> 01:14:54,404
learn so much from that, was that people

2048
01:14:54,404 --> 01:14:57,204
actually started to lose weight before any of

2049
01:14:57,204 --> 01:14:58,965
those things started to change in, like, the

2050
01:14:58,965 --> 01:15:01,045
brain profiles. And so what it says to

2051
01:15:01,045 --> 01:15:03,204
me is that something was happening there that

2052
01:15:03,204 --> 01:15:04,824
we were able to change the bioenergetics

2053
01:15:05,340 --> 01:15:06,399
of how we were using

2054
01:15:07,099 --> 01:15:09,279
the fat and the available metabolism

2055
01:15:09,579 --> 01:15:11,199
in our body before

2056
01:15:11,739 --> 01:15:13,979
the brain part started to change. Right? And

2057
01:15:13,979 --> 01:15:16,539
so there's really good published research now looking

2058
01:15:16,539 --> 01:15:19,260
at how cannabinoids can change the bioenergetics of

2059
01:15:19,260 --> 01:15:19,935
your cell.

2060
01:15:20,655 --> 01:15:23,055
But it's it's I think it's everything because

2061
01:15:23,055 --> 01:15:24,975
it has to do with your mitochondria and

2062
01:15:24,975 --> 01:15:27,694
the microglia because they also need energy. And

2063
01:15:27,694 --> 01:15:29,534
I think once we start focusing in on

2064
01:15:29,534 --> 01:15:32,414
that, we're gonna have the the answers to

2065
01:15:32,414 --> 01:15:34,380
a lot of problems that right now don't

2066
01:15:34,380 --> 01:15:35,820
have good answers, and they don't have good

2067
01:15:35,820 --> 01:15:36,320
pharmacological

2068
01:15:37,820 --> 01:15:40,060
products. Like, concussion's one of them. Right? Concussion

2069
01:15:40,060 --> 01:15:42,699
doesn't have a pharmacological option that you can

2070
01:15:42,699 --> 01:15:45,500
give somebody afterwards. But when you actually look

2071
01:15:45,500 --> 01:15:47,340
down at the molecular level of what we

2072
01:15:47,340 --> 01:15:48,079
can do

2073
01:15:48,465 --> 01:15:50,864
with cannabinoid molecules, you get all the way

2074
01:15:50,864 --> 01:15:53,024
down to the mitochondria where you're affecting the

2075
01:15:53,024 --> 01:15:53,524
bioenergetics

2076
01:15:53,824 --> 01:15:55,445
of a brain that's in crisis.

2077
01:15:55,824 --> 01:15:56,645
That's everything.

2078
01:15:56,945 --> 01:15:59,104
We know that these athletes end up down

2079
01:15:59,104 --> 01:16:00,564
the road with neurodegenerative

2080
01:16:00,864 --> 01:16:03,329
disorders three times higher rate than normal people

2081
01:16:03,329 --> 01:16:05,429
that didn't play contact sport. Well, why?

2082
01:16:05,810 --> 01:16:07,890
Because their brains are perturbed, and they stay

2083
01:16:07,890 --> 01:16:10,210
perturbed. So if we can, like, turn the

2084
01:16:10,210 --> 01:16:10,949
rig around,

2085
01:16:11,649 --> 01:16:13,909
now we know that we can potentially

2086
01:16:14,445 --> 01:16:15,585
reduce the neurodegenerative

2087
01:16:15,885 --> 01:16:17,725
problems that they're seeing down the road. And

2088
01:16:17,725 --> 01:16:19,324
CTE is just a result of that. Now

2089
01:16:19,324 --> 01:16:22,204
that's only diagnosable postmortem, but CTE is the

2090
01:16:22,204 --> 01:16:24,604
result of a very perturbed it's a metabolic

2091
01:16:24,604 --> 01:16:26,445
crisis when you get a concussion. Right? And

2092
01:16:26,445 --> 01:16:28,859
it goes into all these other things. But,

2093
01:16:29,020 --> 01:16:30,859
you know, it it's a metabolic crisis where

2094
01:16:30,859 --> 01:16:32,539
you can't get glucose to that part of

2095
01:16:32,539 --> 01:16:34,719
your brain, and you don't have enough energy.

2096
01:16:34,779 --> 01:16:36,719
And the downstream problem of that,

2097
01:16:37,020 --> 01:16:39,420
it starts throwing sparks and problems all over

2098
01:16:39,420 --> 01:16:41,340
the place. Right? You go into an anaerobic

2099
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:43,585
your brain literally goes anaerobic. Like, the way

2100
01:16:43,585 --> 01:16:45,344
that your quads burn when you sprint too

2101
01:16:45,344 --> 01:16:47,264
fast and you can't get oxygen to them,

2102
01:16:47,264 --> 01:16:49,604
your brain is going anaerobic and you're secreting

2103
01:16:49,744 --> 01:16:50,965
lactate. Well,

2104
01:16:51,344 --> 01:16:53,425
with that comes acidic products. And with that,

2105
01:16:53,425 --> 01:16:55,664
your brain is not happy. Now lactate is

2106
01:16:55,664 --> 01:16:57,764
used as an energy source, and it's actually

2107
01:16:57,890 --> 01:17:01,030
in a glucose sparing environment. Lactate's very beneficial,

2108
01:17:01,649 --> 01:17:03,409
but the acid and everything else that comes

2109
01:17:03,409 --> 01:17:04,689
with it, you don't want your brain to

2110
01:17:04,689 --> 01:17:06,609
be anaerobic. You want your brain to be

2111
01:17:06,609 --> 01:17:09,010
going in oxidative phosphorylation where it can use

2112
01:17:09,010 --> 01:17:11,350
oxygen, and it can be happy and produce,

2113
01:17:11,545 --> 01:17:13,724
you know, ATP and everything's balanced.

2114
01:17:14,184 --> 01:17:17,144
Concussion's not balanced. Yeah. Totally. That's for sure.

2115
01:17:17,144 --> 01:17:19,085
Alright. So we see now how,

2116
01:17:19,944 --> 01:17:21,704
actually, those are a whole bunch of different

2117
01:17:21,704 --> 01:17:22,925
examples of how,

2118
01:17:24,024 --> 01:17:25,729
cannabis use is going to,

2119
01:17:26,750 --> 01:17:28,750
play a role in our psychological and and

2120
01:17:28,750 --> 01:17:29,250
cognitive,

2121
01:17:29,710 --> 01:17:31,489
state, especially with neurotransmitters.

2122
01:17:32,510 --> 01:17:33,229
Yeah. And,

2123
01:17:33,789 --> 01:17:34,270
so,

2124
01:17:34,670 --> 01:17:36,270
when we come back for the third set,

2125
01:17:36,270 --> 01:17:37,389
I I wanna have,

2126
01:17:37,789 --> 01:17:39,390
continued discussions about,

2127
01:17:40,055 --> 01:17:43,175
edibles and suppositories versus smoking, the time for

2128
01:17:43,175 --> 01:17:45,335
delivery, which is what we started the show

2129
01:17:45,335 --> 01:17:45,835
with,

2130
01:17:46,534 --> 01:17:47,354
and also,

2131
01:17:48,135 --> 01:17:49,814
clean up a couple other things that came

2132
01:17:49,814 --> 01:17:52,774
up during the show. So, dear listener, hang

2133
01:17:52,774 --> 01:17:54,770
with us. We will be right back. You

2134
01:17:54,770 --> 01:17:56,610
are listening to Shaping Fire, and my guest

2135
01:17:56,610 --> 01:17:57,829
today is neuropharmacologist,

2136
01:17:58,770 --> 01:18:01,489
Elizabeth Thompson. And, you know, remember, without these

2137
01:18:01,489 --> 01:18:04,289
advertisers, Shaping Fire wouldn't happen. So please support

2138
01:18:04,289 --> 01:18:05,890
them and let them know you heard them

2139
01:18:05,890 --> 01:18:07,030
on Shaping Fire.

2140
01:18:10,434 --> 01:18:12,835
One of the challenges with buying autoflower seeds

2141
01:18:12,835 --> 01:18:14,675
is that often you'll have as many different

2142
01:18:14,675 --> 01:18:16,594
phenos as you will have seeds in a

2143
01:18:16,594 --> 01:18:17,094
pack.

2144
01:18:17,395 --> 01:18:19,890
That can be fun, sure, but so many

2145
01:18:19,890 --> 01:18:21,969
varieties in one pack is a sign of

2146
01:18:21,969 --> 01:18:24,210
an immature seed line that hasn't been worked

2147
01:18:24,210 --> 01:18:24,710
enough.

2148
01:18:25,329 --> 01:18:27,729
I prefer my autoflowers to be worked enough

2149
01:18:27,729 --> 01:18:29,890
that each fino in the pack really captures

2150
01:18:29,890 --> 01:18:31,829
the aspects that the breeder was intending.

2151
01:18:32,765 --> 01:18:34,145
This is why I recommend

2152
01:18:34,445 --> 01:18:36,845
Gnome automatics to my friends and listeners who

2153
01:18:36,845 --> 01:18:39,024
grow automatic flowering cannabis seeds.

2154
01:18:39,805 --> 01:18:42,204
Gnome automatic seeds are not just crossed and

2155
01:18:42,204 --> 01:18:45,664
released, they are painstakingly sifted again and again,

2156
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,360
tested in a wide range of conditions, and

2157
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:50,520
taken to a level of maturity that each

2158
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,699
plant will be recognizable by its traits.

2159
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:55,479
Traits that were hard earned so that you

2160
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:57,659
can have your best growth cycle ever.

2161
01:18:58,444 --> 01:19:01,404
Over the last ten years, Gnome Automatics founder

2162
01:19:01,404 --> 01:19:03,965
Dan Jimmy has become a trusted breeder and

2163
01:19:03,965 --> 01:19:06,045
he continues to pour his passion of breeding

2164
01:19:06,045 --> 01:19:08,844
cannabis into every variety he releases for you

2165
01:19:08,844 --> 01:19:09,505
to grow.

2166
01:19:10,380 --> 01:19:12,560
Check out the Gnome Automatics Instagram

2167
01:19:13,020 --> 01:19:15,199
at gnome underscore automatics

2168
01:19:15,500 --> 01:19:17,920
to see the impressive plants folks are growing.

2169
01:19:18,699 --> 01:19:21,439
You can score Gnome Automatic seeds in feminized

2170
01:19:21,579 --> 01:19:24,085
or regular at your favorite seed provider listed

2171
01:19:24,085 --> 01:19:25,945
in the vendor section of their website.

2172
01:19:26,885 --> 01:19:29,445
Commercial cannabis farms across the country love growing

2173
01:19:29,445 --> 01:19:32,564
Gnome automatics because of their consistency from seed

2174
01:19:32,564 --> 01:19:33,305
to seed,

2175
01:19:33,685 --> 01:19:34,905
short grow times,

2176
01:19:35,220 --> 01:19:36,359
THC percentages,

2177
01:19:36,739 --> 01:19:38,199
and colorful bag appeal.

2178
01:19:38,819 --> 01:19:40,979
Farms interested in bulk seeds of more than

2179
01:19:40,979 --> 01:19:44,920
a thousand should reach out through gnomeautomatics.com.

2180
01:19:45,859 --> 01:19:47,619
While on the website, be sure to check

2181
01:19:47,619 --> 01:19:50,100
out the gnome automatics shirts and other merch

2182
01:19:50,100 --> 01:19:50,954
section too.

2183
01:19:51,515 --> 01:19:53,295
If you want reliable seeds,

2184
01:19:53,595 --> 01:19:56,895
hand built from effort, expert selection, and experience,

2185
01:19:57,435 --> 01:19:59,055
choose Gnome Automatic.

2186
01:20:02,475 --> 01:20:04,395
You've heard me talk about the award winning

2187
01:20:04,395 --> 01:20:06,689
cannabis seeds that come from the analytical breeding

2188
01:20:06,689 --> 01:20:09,250
program of Seth and Eric Crawford who founded

2189
01:20:09,250 --> 01:20:12,289
Oregon CBD Seeds. In fact, Seth was a

2190
01:20:12,289 --> 01:20:15,010
guest on Shaping Fire in 2020 to talk

2191
01:20:15,010 --> 01:20:16,310
about triploid genetics.

2192
01:20:17,324 --> 01:20:19,824
Seth and Eric are now releasing high THC

2193
01:20:19,965 --> 01:20:22,765
seeds for homegrowers and farms as Grow The

2194
01:20:22,765 --> 01:20:23,265
Revolution

2195
01:20:23,725 --> 01:20:26,545
seeds at gtrseeds.com.

2196
01:20:27,164 --> 01:20:30,369
Their high THC seeds are extraordinary in that

2197
01:20:30,369 --> 01:20:32,689
they will start to flower at sixteen and

2198
01:20:32,689 --> 01:20:34,929
a half hours of daylight instead of the

2199
01:20:34,929 --> 01:20:37,269
typical fourteen and a half hours of daylight.

2200
01:20:37,569 --> 01:20:40,369
That means in most regions, your plants will

2201
01:20:40,369 --> 01:20:42,949
start to flower outdoors in the July

2202
01:20:43,364 --> 01:20:44,984
instead of the August,

2203
01:20:45,204 --> 01:20:46,505
which means these photoperiod

2204
01:20:46,805 --> 01:20:49,545
plants finish in September and not October,

2205
01:20:50,005 --> 01:20:52,664
totally upending the photoperiod seed market.

2206
01:20:53,204 --> 01:20:55,944
Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering

2207
01:20:56,005 --> 01:20:58,270
CBG line and bred it to some of

2208
01:20:58,270 --> 01:21:01,890
the most desired verified genetics out there, including

2209
01:21:01,949 --> 01:21:05,789
Sour Diesel, Triangle Kush, Wedding Cake, Chemdog, Skittles,

2210
01:21:05,789 --> 01:21:06,449
and others.

2211
01:21:06,829 --> 01:21:10,590
These crosses all express powerful photoperiod terpene profiles

2212
01:21:10,590 --> 01:21:11,329
and THC,

2213
01:21:11,895 --> 01:21:13,194
giving you a great high.

2214
01:21:13,895 --> 01:21:17,335
GTR Seeds has a new THCV line with

2215
01:21:17,335 --> 01:21:19,434
plants like Double Durban and Gigantor

2216
01:21:19,814 --> 01:21:22,795
that boast one to one THC to THCV.

2217
01:21:23,414 --> 01:21:25,114
And people want that THCV.

2218
01:21:26,350 --> 01:21:28,369
GTR seeds are very consistent,

2219
01:21:28,829 --> 01:21:32,050
true growing inbred f ones from stabilized

2220
01:21:32,350 --> 01:21:33,649
inbred parent lines.

2221
01:21:34,029 --> 01:21:35,969
These seeds are nearly homogeneous

2222
01:21:36,350 --> 01:21:38,609
and the plants should all grow the same.

2223
01:21:38,750 --> 01:21:41,564
There is only one phenotype in every pack,

2224
01:21:41,885 --> 01:21:43,744
available as diploids and triploids.

2225
01:21:44,524 --> 01:21:46,944
Seth and Eric's company is still family owned,

2226
01:21:47,085 --> 01:21:49,805
patient and employee centric, and partially powered by

2227
01:21:49,805 --> 01:21:51,585
their two acres of solar panels.

2228
01:21:52,204 --> 01:21:54,444
Everyone can purchase these seeds and the entire

2229
01:21:54,444 --> 01:21:59,500
catalog of Oregon CBD seeds at gtrseeds.com.

2230
01:21:59,639 --> 01:22:01,559
Go to gtrseeds.com

2231
01:22:01,559 --> 01:22:04,439
today and choose something revolutionary for your next

2232
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:05,979
indoor or outdoor run.

2233
01:22:09,255 --> 01:22:11,574
This message is for folks who grow cannabis.

2234
01:22:11,574 --> 01:22:14,135
I'm talking to home growers, patients, and commercial

2235
01:22:14,135 --> 01:22:17,094
growers too. I'm probably talking to you. When

2236
01:22:17,094 --> 01:22:19,094
you plan out your next growing cycle, be

2237
01:22:19,094 --> 01:22:21,194
sure to check out Humboldt CSI

2238
01:22:21,494 --> 01:22:24,395
seeds at humboldtcsi.com.

2239
01:22:24,690 --> 01:22:26,930
Caleb Inspecta and his family have lived in

2240
01:22:26,930 --> 01:22:29,250
Humboldt County for over a hundred years. For

2241
01:22:29,250 --> 01:22:31,729
the last forty years, three generations of his

2242
01:22:31,729 --> 01:22:34,850
family have cultivated extraordinary sense of mia cannabis

2243
01:22:34,850 --> 01:22:37,430
in Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity Counties.

2244
01:22:38,104 --> 01:22:40,505
Because of his lineage and the hard earned

2245
01:22:40,505 --> 01:22:43,304
experience that comes from growing up smoking and

2246
01:22:43,304 --> 01:22:45,944
sifting large populations of cannabis plants in Northern

2247
01:22:45,944 --> 01:22:46,444
California,

2248
01:22:46,904 --> 01:22:49,145
the seeds you'll cop from CSI will be

2249
01:22:49,145 --> 01:22:50,045
winning genetics

2250
01:22:50,389 --> 01:22:53,189
based on long time heavy hitters and updated

2251
01:22:53,189 --> 01:22:55,349
and resifted to bring out new and exotic

2252
01:22:55,349 --> 01:22:56,810
traits and better yields.

2253
01:22:57,270 --> 01:22:59,670
Go ahead and ask around. Caleb, also known

2254
01:22:59,670 --> 01:23:00,409
as Inspecta

2255
01:23:00,710 --> 01:23:02,710
and Pirates of the Emerald Triangle is a

2256
01:23:02,710 --> 01:23:05,435
breeder's breeder. He reaches way back and works

2257
01:23:05,435 --> 01:23:06,814
with significant strains,

2258
01:23:07,114 --> 01:23:09,435
recreating them in new and interesting ways that

2259
01:23:09,435 --> 01:23:11,774
you'll love as a toker and a grower

2260
01:23:11,914 --> 01:23:13,994
as well as offering you some surprises that

2261
01:23:13,994 --> 01:23:16,414
will delight serious seed traders and cultivators.

2262
01:23:17,469 --> 01:23:20,529
Humboldt CSI goes a further step and selfs

2263
01:23:20,590 --> 01:23:22,909
all these chemovars so you know all the

2264
01:23:22,909 --> 01:23:25,649
seeds will be female. These are not experimental

2265
01:23:25,949 --> 01:23:27,010
feminized seeds.

2266
01:23:27,310 --> 01:23:30,029
Humboldt CSI releases some of the best female

2267
01:23:30,029 --> 01:23:32,494
seeds available anywhere and it will show in

2268
01:23:32,494 --> 01:23:33,155
your garden.

2269
01:23:33,774 --> 01:23:35,935
Folks grew quite a bit of CSI Humboldt

2270
01:23:35,935 --> 01:23:38,015
Gen X last year here on Vashon Island

2271
01:23:38,015 --> 01:23:41,074
and everyone was pleased. The patients had beautiful

2272
01:23:41,215 --> 01:23:43,454
female plants and didn't have to cull half

2273
01:23:43,454 --> 01:23:44,835
of their garden as males.

2274
01:23:45,210 --> 01:23:47,210
The folks growing for the fun of getting

2275
01:23:47,210 --> 01:23:50,489
high grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal

2276
01:23:50,489 --> 01:23:53,530
and great highs. And breeders had seven out

2277
01:23:53,530 --> 01:23:55,530
of seven females in a pack which gave

2278
01:23:55,530 --> 01:23:57,390
them a lot of phenotypic choices.

2279
01:23:58,145 --> 01:24:02,545
Take a moment right now and visit humboldtcsi.com.

2280
01:24:02,545 --> 01:24:04,305
You'll find an up to date menu of

2281
01:24:04,305 --> 01:24:07,265
both feminized and regular lines along with photos

2282
01:24:07,265 --> 01:24:07,925
and descriptions.

2283
01:24:08,385 --> 01:24:11,604
That's humboldtcsi.com.

2284
01:24:13,409 --> 01:24:15,729
Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire.

2285
01:24:15,729 --> 01:24:17,970
I am your host, Shango Los. And my

2286
01:24:17,970 --> 01:24:19,270
guest today is neuropharmacologist

2287
01:24:19,970 --> 01:24:21,030
Elizabeth Thompson.

2288
01:24:21,650 --> 01:24:23,430
So let's talk about,

2289
01:24:24,050 --> 01:24:24,770
the different,

2290
01:24:25,090 --> 01:24:25,590
modalities

2291
01:24:26,064 --> 01:24:28,224
I guess we'll call it, of actually getting

2292
01:24:28,224 --> 01:24:30,965
the cannabis or the cannabinoids into your system.

2293
01:24:31,184 --> 01:24:32,465
As we talked about at the top of

2294
01:24:32,465 --> 01:24:34,804
the show, we've been mostly talking about,

2295
01:24:35,505 --> 01:24:36,005
smoking.

2296
01:24:36,784 --> 01:24:39,264
Liz put it perfectly, fast in, fast out.

2297
01:24:39,264 --> 01:24:41,689
It comes on really fast, but then it

2298
01:24:42,229 --> 01:24:43,909
also gets processed and goes away,

2299
01:24:44,310 --> 01:24:45,210
the the fastest.

2300
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:48,149
And and we alluded that there were other

2301
01:24:48,149 --> 01:24:50,949
other reasons to use other other methods, which,

2302
01:24:50,949 --> 01:24:53,204
you know, everybody here, we all know medicine.

2303
01:24:53,204 --> 01:24:55,864
Right? And we all know that sometimes edibles

2304
01:24:56,005 --> 01:24:58,645
are are more preferred for, you know, a

2305
01:24:58,645 --> 01:25:00,885
range of reasons. Either the person has gut

2306
01:25:00,885 --> 01:25:02,244
issues, so they need they can't,

2307
01:25:02,885 --> 01:25:04,564
they can't put things through their gut, or

2308
01:25:04,564 --> 01:25:06,965
they're not processing things properly, or or it

2309
01:25:06,965 --> 01:25:08,345
causes its own reaction,

2310
01:25:08,940 --> 01:25:11,100
or or maybe they are looking for a

2311
01:25:11,100 --> 01:25:13,979
different kind of relief than than the fast

2312
01:25:13,979 --> 01:25:15,500
in fast out. Maybe they've got more of

2313
01:25:15,500 --> 01:25:16,940
a body issue and they need a they

2314
01:25:16,940 --> 01:25:18,699
needed more of an aches and pains issue.

2315
01:25:18,699 --> 01:25:21,260
Right? So so so as as we've been

2316
01:25:21,260 --> 01:25:23,180
talking about, there's lots of different patients and

2317
01:25:23,180 --> 01:25:25,864
so there's lots of different reasons. But what

2318
01:25:25,864 --> 01:25:27,005
I want to talk about,

2319
01:25:27,784 --> 01:25:30,764
at this point is is the different functioning

2320
01:25:30,904 --> 01:25:32,505
of the edibles. So, Liz, I want to

2321
01:25:32,505 --> 01:25:34,024
I want to talk about two different types

2322
01:25:34,024 --> 01:25:37,224
of edibles. There is the food kind of

2323
01:25:37,224 --> 01:25:39,520
edible that gets, you know, chewed up and

2324
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:40,979
swallowed and then processed.

2325
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,739
And then there is the capsule with RSO

2326
01:25:45,279 --> 01:25:47,380
version of an edible that we eat.

2327
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:48,079
But,

2328
01:25:48,719 --> 01:25:50,979
but that capsule is going to

2329
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:53,539
degrade earlier in the process

2330
01:25:54,304 --> 01:25:57,104
and that, that cannabis oil is gonna get

2331
01:25:57,104 --> 01:26:00,625
likely soaked in through, tissues, esophageal tissues on

2332
01:26:00,625 --> 01:26:01,364
the way down.

2333
01:26:01,904 --> 01:26:04,225
I'm guessing, right? So feel free to correct

2334
01:26:04,225 --> 01:26:05,824
me on that. So so what I'd like

2335
01:26:05,824 --> 01:26:07,444
to start with is would you

2336
01:26:07,904 --> 01:26:10,359
kind of explain to us the path that

2337
01:26:10,359 --> 01:26:13,000
the cannabinoids take when we are when we

2338
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:13,739
are taking,

2339
01:26:14,279 --> 01:26:16,199
an edible that is food based like a

2340
01:26:16,199 --> 01:26:17,800
gummy and or a,

2341
01:26:18,199 --> 01:26:19,500
cookie versus,

2342
01:26:20,279 --> 01:26:22,840
taking a capsule that's got oil in it

2343
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:24,380
that that breaks down faster?

2344
01:26:25,295 --> 01:26:26,735
Yeah. For sure. So I think with the

2345
01:26:26,735 --> 01:26:29,215
capsule, actually, it would really matter on the

2346
01:26:29,215 --> 01:26:29,715
cellulose

2347
01:26:30,175 --> 01:26:32,255
container that you had it in just as

2348
01:26:32,255 --> 01:26:34,574
an aside. So if you had it in

2349
01:26:34,574 --> 01:26:36,255
a capsule that was gonna make it to

2350
01:26:36,255 --> 01:26:39,210
the stomach, it would be essentially digested the

2351
01:26:39,210 --> 01:26:41,289
same way as the edible one would be.

2352
01:26:41,289 --> 01:26:42,270
And I think,

2353
01:26:42,889 --> 01:26:44,649
one big thing and in our clinical trial,

2354
01:26:44,649 --> 01:26:46,809
this is really important. And the pharmacology of

2355
01:26:46,809 --> 01:26:48,189
the cannabinoids is,

2356
01:26:48,729 --> 01:26:50,489
again, you have to look at the big

2357
01:26:50,489 --> 01:26:53,055
picture of it's not just about the cannabinoids.

2358
01:26:53,055 --> 01:26:54,814
It's also about what's in your stomach with

2359
01:26:54,814 --> 01:26:56,654
the cannabinoids. So we know that when you

2360
01:26:56,654 --> 01:26:59,295
take cannabinoids in the edible form and you

2361
01:26:59,295 --> 01:27:00,595
take a fat

2362
01:27:00,975 --> 01:27:02,975
heavy meal, so you want to take your

2363
01:27:02,975 --> 01:27:05,090
cannabinoids with a fat, so we say like,

2364
01:27:05,090 --> 01:27:08,130
you know, peanut butter, buttercream, whatever, it increases

2365
01:27:08,130 --> 01:27:08,789
the bioavailability

2366
01:27:09,329 --> 01:27:11,810
four to five times. So we've done some

2367
01:27:11,810 --> 01:27:14,770
studies looking at a fast versus fed. So,

2368
01:27:14,770 --> 01:27:16,789
you know, when you're fasted and you have

2369
01:27:17,505 --> 01:27:20,225
nothing in your stomach, your digestion process hasn't

2370
01:27:20,225 --> 01:27:22,485
been turned on at all. When you're fed,

2371
01:27:22,704 --> 01:27:24,945
when you're fed with just carbohydrates, you turn

2372
01:27:24,945 --> 01:27:26,864
on a certain type of digestion. When you're

2373
01:27:26,864 --> 01:27:29,024
fed with fats, you turn on another different

2374
01:27:29,024 --> 01:27:29,925
type of digestion.

2375
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:33,000
Now, cannabinoids are lipophilic molecules. They are made

2376
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:35,500
of fat. So when you take your cannabinoids

2377
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:37,320
as an edible and you have fat in

2378
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:39,239
your body, it kind of mixes in, you

2379
01:27:39,239 --> 01:27:41,079
know, oil and water don't mix, but oil

2380
01:27:41,079 --> 01:27:42,680
and oil mix. So these two oil and

2381
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:45,354
oils are gonna mix. And now that we

2382
01:27:45,354 --> 01:27:47,295
know, I mean, there's a lot of publications

2383
01:27:47,514 --> 01:27:48,255
on the pharmacology

2384
01:27:48,715 --> 01:27:51,835
showing that with a fat based meal, the

2385
01:27:51,835 --> 01:27:52,335
bioavailability

2386
01:27:53,034 --> 01:27:55,614
does increase about four to five times. So

2387
01:27:55,835 --> 01:27:58,395
that's something that's important when you're trying to

2388
01:27:58,395 --> 01:27:59,034
look for,

2389
01:27:59,899 --> 01:28:00,800
you know, consistency

2390
01:28:01,500 --> 01:28:03,340
and dosing and stuff like that, and it

2391
01:28:03,340 --> 01:28:05,739
can affect the outcome. Right? And so first

2392
01:28:05,739 --> 01:28:06,859
of all so that's the first thing that

2393
01:28:06,859 --> 01:28:09,179
happens when you take either either product and

2394
01:28:09,179 --> 01:28:10,619
you put it in your stomach. It's, again,

2395
01:28:10,619 --> 01:28:12,539
context matters. What is in the stomach with

2396
01:28:12,539 --> 01:28:14,880
it? And we can see big differences between,

2397
01:28:15,414 --> 01:28:17,574
people. Even in our clinical trials, sometimes it's

2398
01:28:17,574 --> 01:28:19,735
like, did you eat? Because this is a

2399
01:28:19,735 --> 01:28:21,655
little bit of a profile that did. We

2400
01:28:21,655 --> 01:28:24,295
can tell. You can't fool us. But so

2401
01:28:24,295 --> 01:28:25,175
there's that.

2402
01:28:25,655 --> 01:28:28,454
And then the edible the other big thing

2403
01:28:28,454 --> 01:28:30,609
that is important to consider versus you know,

2404
01:28:30,609 --> 01:28:31,989
when we're talking about inhalation,

2405
01:28:32,449 --> 01:28:34,550
inhalation doesn't go through first pass metabolism,

2406
01:28:34,850 --> 01:28:37,109
whereas edibles do go through first pass metabolism,

2407
01:28:37,250 --> 01:28:39,510
which means that your liver is processing

2408
01:28:39,890 --> 01:28:40,789
the cannabinoids.

2409
01:28:41,905 --> 01:28:43,985
And that's actually really important. You know, people

2410
01:28:43,985 --> 01:28:45,045
think, okay, well,

2411
01:28:45,425 --> 01:28:47,345
it's it just takes longer, but it's actually

2412
01:28:47,345 --> 01:28:49,104
not about the time. It's about the chemical

2413
01:28:49,104 --> 01:28:51,585
conversion that happens. So I love that eleven

2414
01:28:51,585 --> 01:28:52,085
hydroxy.

2415
01:28:52,864 --> 01:28:53,985
Exactly. So

2416
01:28:54,619 --> 01:28:56,300
and CBD does the same thing. So you

2417
01:28:56,300 --> 01:28:58,300
have delta nine THC when you take it

2418
01:28:58,300 --> 01:29:00,719
as an edible, goes through first pass metabolism

2419
01:29:00,859 --> 01:29:02,460
so your liver starts working on it, and

2420
01:29:02,460 --> 01:29:04,219
this is part of the digestion process. It

2421
01:29:04,219 --> 01:29:06,795
converts it to eleven hydroxy THC. Now eleven

2422
01:29:06,795 --> 01:29:10,175
hydroxy THC is slightly more cognitively impairing,

2423
01:29:10,555 --> 01:29:12,635
and so now it's actually a different molecule

2424
01:29:12,635 --> 01:29:14,715
and it functions differently. And that's why people,

2425
01:29:14,715 --> 01:29:16,875
you know, quote unquote, they can green out

2426
01:29:16,875 --> 01:29:19,789
because one, it's the time factor. Right? People

2427
01:29:19,789 --> 01:29:21,789
sometimes will take an edible, and they won't

2428
01:29:21,789 --> 01:29:24,510
realize that because of first pass metabolism, it

2429
01:29:24,510 --> 01:29:26,750
takes a lot longer to feel the cognitive

2430
01:29:26,750 --> 01:29:28,989
effects. We say, you know, ninety minutes to

2431
01:29:28,989 --> 01:29:30,829
two hours before you're gonna make a call

2432
01:29:30,829 --> 01:29:32,750
of if you're gonna take another gummy or

2433
01:29:32,750 --> 01:29:34,369
something. Right? Give it a chance.

2434
01:29:34,824 --> 01:29:37,545
And so there's that time factor. But then

2435
01:29:37,545 --> 01:29:40,524
secondly, there's the conversion factor to 11 hydroxy

2436
01:29:40,664 --> 01:29:43,704
with THC, which is more cognitively impairing. And,

2437
01:29:43,704 --> 01:29:44,984
actually, it has a little bit of a

2438
01:29:44,984 --> 01:29:45,465
different,

2439
01:29:46,185 --> 01:29:47,880
you know, shape. So it can it it's

2440
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:49,320
potential that it can get up into your

2441
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:51,340
brain and then maybe stay up in there.

2442
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:53,159
And now, again, I hate that I bring

2443
01:29:53,159 --> 01:29:55,100
everything back to concussion. But concussion,

2444
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:57,880
your blood brain barrier is leaky, and that

2445
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,039
makes, again, the context different. Now if you

2446
01:30:00,039 --> 01:30:01,685
have a leaky blood brain barrier, things can

2447
01:30:01,685 --> 01:30:03,405
get up in there. And then if they

2448
01:30:03,524 --> 01:30:05,125
it heal like, it can stay up in

2449
01:30:05,125 --> 01:30:06,404
there. Right? And that's actually one of the

2450
01:30:06,404 --> 01:30:08,024
things that we can use to our advantage,

2451
01:30:08,805 --> 01:30:11,204
with CBD because CBD can get up in

2452
01:30:11,204 --> 01:30:14,000
there, and then CBD actually helps to seal

2453
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:15,840
the blood brain barrier. And so that's an

2454
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,800
advantage again to using CBD for concussion. But,

2455
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,000
anyways, back to the edible question. CBD also

2456
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:23,460
goes through first best metabolism,

2457
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:27,324
and, it goes to seven hydroxy CBD. And

2458
01:30:27,324 --> 01:30:29,265
what we have to remember is those secondary

2459
01:30:29,405 --> 01:30:32,444
metabolites are also bioactive. And so in some

2460
01:30:32,444 --> 01:30:32,944
senses,

2461
01:30:33,324 --> 01:30:35,164
you know, 11

2462
01:30:35,164 --> 01:30:37,645
is more bioactive potentially in different ways than

2463
01:30:37,645 --> 01:30:40,765
delta nine. And CBD, same thing. That seven

2464
01:30:40,765 --> 01:30:43,699
hydroxy CBD is also bioactive. So it's not

2465
01:30:43,699 --> 01:30:45,640
just a breakdown product. It's a bioactive,

2466
01:30:46,180 --> 01:30:48,579
component of its own. So now you're giving

2467
01:30:48,579 --> 01:30:49,800
a whole another pharmacological

2468
01:30:50,180 --> 01:30:52,280
profile. And, actually, there was a recent publication

2469
01:30:52,340 --> 01:30:53,079
on CBG,

2470
01:30:53,780 --> 01:30:55,875
and it was looking at the secondary metabolites

2471
01:30:55,875 --> 01:30:57,954
of CBG once it was getting broken down.

2472
01:30:57,954 --> 01:31:00,274
And in the paper, they propose that one

2473
01:31:00,274 --> 01:31:02,594
of the breakdown molecules of CBG was even

2474
01:31:02,594 --> 01:31:04,694
more bioactive than CBG itself.

2475
01:31:05,074 --> 01:31:06,914
And so, you know, when you're thinking of

2476
01:31:06,914 --> 01:31:08,614
it from a pharmacy perspective,

2477
01:31:09,170 --> 01:31:11,829
those are useful molecules, right? And so,

2478
01:31:12,449 --> 01:31:12,949
you

2479
01:31:13,329 --> 01:31:15,170
know, epilepsy is an example that we always

2480
01:31:15,170 --> 01:31:18,210
use with CBD, but it's potential that the

2481
01:31:18,210 --> 01:31:21,109
breakdown, the secondary metabolites of CBD

2482
01:31:21,595 --> 01:31:24,635
are as important as the initial part, and

2483
01:31:24,635 --> 01:31:26,875
that's how it's functioning in your brain. So

2484
01:31:26,875 --> 01:31:29,055
when you take an edible, it's completely different.

2485
01:31:29,114 --> 01:31:31,375
When you inhale, that doesn't happen.

2486
01:31:31,675 --> 01:31:34,380
Now when you inhale, what does happen is

2487
01:31:34,460 --> 01:31:36,079
the heating process can change,

2488
01:31:37,100 --> 01:31:39,260
changes the profile of the cannabinoids and the

2489
01:31:39,260 --> 01:31:40,859
terpenes and that. And so there is some

2490
01:31:40,859 --> 01:31:44,060
chemical changes with the heat. When you're having

2491
01:31:44,060 --> 01:31:46,219
an edible, the heating has already been done.

2492
01:31:46,219 --> 01:31:48,795
So the heat profile has changed,

2493
01:31:49,494 --> 01:31:51,255
not to know if it's exactly the same

2494
01:31:51,255 --> 01:31:53,434
as inhaling, but it has been decarboxylated

2495
01:31:53,974 --> 01:31:55,894
to make it active, which people would say

2496
01:31:55,894 --> 01:31:56,394
decarboxylation

2497
01:31:56,694 --> 01:31:58,534
is. So when you eat it, now you

2498
01:31:58,534 --> 01:32:00,614
have that the first pass metabolism and all

2499
01:32:00,614 --> 01:32:01,974
the rest of that that's going into it.

2500
01:32:01,974 --> 01:32:03,514
So it does make it quite different,

2501
01:32:04,039 --> 01:32:06,119
and it lasts longer. So once you have

2502
01:32:06,119 --> 01:32:08,520
it, it's not as fast in, right, because

2503
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,360
of the time, and it's not as fast

2504
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:12,520
out. And so with patients, we know that

2505
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:14,920
we can hold the therapeutic value in their

2506
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:16,920
body if they're looking for pain reduction and

2507
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:19,164
stuff. You can hold the therapeutic value for

2508
01:32:19,164 --> 01:32:21,725
longer because the metabolism takes longer, so you

2509
01:32:21,725 --> 01:32:23,744
get the therapeutic benefits for longer.

2510
01:32:25,324 --> 01:32:26,204
That's the best,

2511
01:32:26,604 --> 01:32:29,324
explanation of how delta nine THC and eleven

2512
01:32:29,324 --> 01:32:32,220
hydroxy THC are actually different drugs than I've

2513
01:32:32,220 --> 01:32:33,520
heard. Thank you for that.

2514
01:32:34,060 --> 01:32:36,140
One of the things that we talk about

2515
01:32:36,140 --> 01:32:37,359
when we when people

2516
01:32:37,739 --> 01:32:38,560
are smoking,

2517
01:32:38,939 --> 01:32:40,939
we say, you know, the cannabinoids really only

2518
01:32:40,939 --> 01:32:42,619
stay active in your body for up to

2519
01:32:42,619 --> 01:32:45,199
four hours, much less when you smoke.

2520
01:32:45,555 --> 01:32:47,234
And so, you know, for people who have

2521
01:32:47,234 --> 01:32:49,395
got chronic issues and they need to dose

2522
01:32:49,395 --> 01:32:50,375
throughout the day,

2523
01:32:51,555 --> 01:32:54,034
listening to your explanation made me wonder, does

2524
01:32:54,034 --> 01:32:54,694
the Alexa

2525
01:32:54,994 --> 01:32:56,694
eleven hydroxy THC,

2526
01:32:57,234 --> 01:33:00,114
does it last longer than that four hours?

2527
01:33:00,114 --> 01:33:02,189
I kind of thought that four hours was

2528
01:33:02,729 --> 01:33:05,130
was about the maximum time that you're going

2529
01:33:05,130 --> 01:33:07,149
to get activity from cannabinoids,

2530
01:33:08,649 --> 01:33:10,489
before you need to re up. But I

2531
01:33:10,489 --> 01:33:12,969
had never really thought about eleven hydroxy. I've

2532
01:33:12,969 --> 01:33:14,670
only been thinking about delta nine.

2533
01:33:15,085 --> 01:33:16,685
Yeah. I couldn't say for sure. I haven't

2534
01:33:16,685 --> 01:33:19,244
actually seen any research on that looking at,

2535
01:33:19,244 --> 01:33:21,164
you know, the area under the curve and

2536
01:33:21,164 --> 01:33:23,244
looking at actually the time. So I don't

2537
01:33:23,244 --> 01:33:24,925
know. But I know that,

2538
01:33:25,725 --> 01:33:28,685
the edibles in general do last longer. So

2539
01:33:28,685 --> 01:33:31,140
I would think you could say yes because

2540
01:33:31,140 --> 01:33:32,979
you you know those effects last longer than

2541
01:33:32,979 --> 01:33:34,579
inhalation. Right? So it's not Yeah. Just based

2542
01:33:34,579 --> 01:33:36,920
on based on experience. Like we've Yeah. Yeah.

2543
01:33:37,539 --> 01:33:39,479
All you need is a bad edibles experience

2544
01:33:39,780 --> 01:33:41,539
and and you know it lasts longer. Yeah.

2545
01:33:41,539 --> 01:33:43,085
You want the clock to wind down. It's

2546
01:33:43,085 --> 01:33:45,164
like hurry up and stop. But yeah. So

2547
01:33:45,164 --> 01:33:46,685
it could be to do with the, you

2548
01:33:46,685 --> 01:33:48,445
know, the metabolic process, but it could also

2549
01:33:48,445 --> 01:33:49,564
have to do with the fact that the

2550
01:33:49,564 --> 01:33:51,645
11 hydroxy hangs out in your brain longer

2551
01:33:51,645 --> 01:33:53,085
because it can't get out. And that is

2552
01:33:53,085 --> 01:33:53,585
proposed

2553
01:33:53,885 --> 01:33:55,564
that it's not the same as delta nine

2554
01:33:55,564 --> 01:33:57,744
in that way. It's just processed more slowly.

2555
01:33:58,219 --> 01:34:00,380
Exactly. And once it's up there, it's potential

2556
01:34:00,380 --> 01:34:01,979
that it just it just hangs out up

2557
01:34:01,979 --> 01:34:04,219
there longer, right, in your brain. And so

2558
01:34:04,219 --> 01:34:06,939
it's, yeah, processed more slowly. And and also,

2559
01:34:06,939 --> 01:34:08,300
you know, it it's a bit of a

2560
01:34:08,300 --> 01:34:10,875
misnomer to think, like, okay, after four years

2561
01:34:10,954 --> 01:34:12,555
after four hours, you know, you're you need

2562
01:34:12,555 --> 01:34:14,234
to re up. So you're thinking about, okay.

2563
01:34:14,234 --> 01:34:17,034
Well, what effect that you're after? But that

2564
01:34:17,034 --> 01:34:19,354
THC can actually be stored in your fat

2565
01:34:19,354 --> 01:34:20,954
cells. Right? And so we have athletes, if

2566
01:34:20,954 --> 01:34:22,555
they've used a lot of cannabis for a

2567
01:34:22,555 --> 01:34:24,015
lot of time, even smoking,

2568
01:34:24,430 --> 01:34:26,829
because it's lipophilic molecule, it can be stored

2569
01:34:26,829 --> 01:34:28,989
in your fat. And so if they're cutting

2570
01:34:28,989 --> 01:34:31,310
weight and they're, they're starting to lose fat,

2571
01:34:31,310 --> 01:34:33,550
those THC is can actually come out into

2572
01:34:33,550 --> 01:34:35,710
their bloodstream. And you know, it, it, if

2573
01:34:35,710 --> 01:34:38,270
it's high enough, you could actually not have

2574
01:34:38,270 --> 01:34:40,485
smoked or used THC for a really long

2575
01:34:40,485 --> 01:34:42,085
time. But if you're cutting weight and you

2576
01:34:42,085 --> 01:34:44,805
have stored THC in your fat, it can

2577
01:34:44,805 --> 01:34:46,905
come out and start and make it really

2578
01:34:47,284 --> 01:34:49,765
prolonged time before you'll have a clean test,

2579
01:34:49,765 --> 01:34:52,085
like seventy five days. Like, if you're losing

2580
01:34:52,085 --> 01:34:54,345
weight and and the fat that you've stored

2581
01:34:54,645 --> 01:34:55,140
has

2582
01:34:55,460 --> 01:34:57,560
THC in it. So so,

2583
01:34:57,939 --> 01:35:00,280
yes, the the effects may be four hours,

2584
01:35:00,500 --> 01:35:02,979
but the THC itself can still be in

2585
01:35:02,979 --> 01:35:05,300
your body for, like, a really long time.

2586
01:35:05,300 --> 01:35:06,899
That reminds me of how we used to

2587
01:35:06,899 --> 01:35:10,194
describe LSD flashbacks. Like, oh, the LSD can

2588
01:35:10,194 --> 01:35:11,875
hide in your body and someday you're gonna

2589
01:35:11,875 --> 01:35:12,694
use that fat

2590
01:35:13,074 --> 01:35:15,795
cell. Right? Yeah. Well, it kind of thing.

2591
01:35:15,795 --> 01:35:17,395
And it actually yes. I mean, I don't

2592
01:35:17,395 --> 01:35:18,914
know if enough would ever come out to

2593
01:35:18,914 --> 01:35:19,654
be cognitively

2594
01:35:19,954 --> 01:35:21,554
impairing, so to speak, but it can be

2595
01:35:21,554 --> 01:35:28,849
enough to pop $20,000

2596
01:35:28,849 --> 01:35:30,609
fine or a suspension, you don't want that

2597
01:35:30,609 --> 01:35:32,050
to happen. Yeah. Because you wanna be very

2598
01:35:32,050 --> 01:35:34,130
aware of it. Yeah. Because you actually didn't

2599
01:35:34,130 --> 01:35:36,435
use THC. Like, you're actually not lying. But

2600
01:35:36,435 --> 01:35:38,435
if you're cutting weight and it's coming out

2601
01:35:38,435 --> 01:35:40,514
of the fat stores and you're popping a

2602
01:35:40,514 --> 01:35:43,554
positive test, both things are true. This athlete

2603
01:35:43,554 --> 01:35:45,954
did not use cannabis in the last however

2604
01:35:45,954 --> 01:35:48,250
much time that you're testing him for. But

2605
01:35:48,250 --> 01:35:49,850
it is also true that it's showing up

2606
01:35:49,850 --> 01:35:52,010
on his test. Right? So those things both

2607
01:35:52,010 --> 01:35:53,149
things can be true.

2608
01:35:54,729 --> 01:35:56,409
Wow. That brings up all all sorts of,

2609
01:35:56,649 --> 01:35:58,729
DUI questions too that we are not gonna

2610
01:35:58,729 --> 01:36:01,770
get into today. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. Alright.

2611
01:36:01,770 --> 01:36:03,985
So let let's let's wrap up this set

2612
01:36:03,985 --> 01:36:06,145
by talking about suppositories, which always,

2613
01:36:06,625 --> 01:36:09,025
gets giggles when I bring it up in

2614
01:36:09,025 --> 01:36:09,925
live panels.

2615
01:36:10,305 --> 01:36:13,585
But, you know, it's it's one thing let's

2616
01:36:13,585 --> 01:36:15,744
see. How do I wanna say this? It's

2617
01:36:15,744 --> 01:36:18,085
one thing to be a cannabis enthusiast.

2618
01:36:18,470 --> 01:36:19,930
We love using cannabis.

2619
01:36:20,390 --> 01:36:21,449
It is different

2620
01:36:21,989 --> 01:36:23,530
when I'm working with a patient

2621
01:36:23,909 --> 01:36:26,250
when they need cannabinoids

2622
01:36:26,869 --> 01:36:29,210
to survive. Right? Yeah. Their

2623
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:30,810
their relationship

2624
01:36:31,110 --> 01:36:32,890
with the cannabis is different.

2625
01:36:33,614 --> 01:36:34,055
And,

2626
01:36:34,494 --> 01:36:36,835
I have seen and helped patients,

2627
01:36:37,215 --> 01:36:38,194
like, do everything,

2628
01:36:38,654 --> 01:36:40,975
you know, and and and and and come

2629
01:36:40,975 --> 01:36:43,215
to the point of realizing they need to

2630
01:36:43,215 --> 01:36:44,194
make their own suppositories

2631
01:36:44,814 --> 01:36:45,635
Yeah. Which

2632
01:36:46,069 --> 01:36:48,310
is almost always a very sick person and

2633
01:36:48,310 --> 01:36:49,750
my heart always goes out to them. So

2634
01:36:49,750 --> 01:36:52,170
let's talk a little bit about suppositories because

2635
01:36:52,390 --> 01:36:53,670
I know I've got a lot of these

2636
01:36:53,670 --> 01:36:55,770
people in our audience. So

2637
01:36:56,229 --> 01:36:58,489
let's first talk about the anal suppositories

2638
01:36:59,524 --> 01:37:01,045
And, we're not going to talk so much

2639
01:37:01,045 --> 01:37:03,064
about making them and things like that.

2640
01:37:03,364 --> 01:37:04,744
That information is available

2641
01:37:05,204 --> 01:37:06,024
pretty regularly.

2642
01:37:07,045 --> 01:37:08,965
But one way or another, you're usually going

2643
01:37:08,965 --> 01:37:11,625
to use some combination of RSO

2644
01:37:12,885 --> 01:37:13,625
with coconut

2645
01:37:14,969 --> 01:37:17,789
oil in some way, maybe some shea butter.

2646
01:37:18,250 --> 01:37:19,929
Lots of people would like to put them

2647
01:37:19,929 --> 01:37:20,670
in the little,

2648
01:37:21,369 --> 01:37:22,269
little little

2649
01:37:22,889 --> 01:37:24,809
freezer form things that you put in the

2650
01:37:24,809 --> 01:37:26,409
freezer and you make it hard. And you

2651
01:37:26,409 --> 01:37:27,849
just keep it in there and when you

2652
01:37:27,849 --> 01:37:29,385
gotta use it, you just you know, take

2653
01:37:29,385 --> 01:37:31,465
your finger and put it down into the

2654
01:37:31,465 --> 01:37:33,085
rectum. Right? And

2655
01:37:33,704 --> 01:37:34,925
while that is a

2656
01:37:36,104 --> 01:37:39,724
extraordinary and odd and sometimes messy process,

2657
01:37:40,104 --> 01:37:43,680
it's important as far as medicine goes. Right.

2658
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:46,159
And so it's from this point that I'd

2659
01:37:46,159 --> 01:37:47,840
like you to pick up the story, Liz.

2660
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:49,699
Would you just tell us a little bit

2661
01:37:50,159 --> 01:37:51,140
about how

2662
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:52,659
the the cannabinoids,

2663
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:55,840
find their way through the rectal wall and

2664
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:58,020
then into the system that way?

2665
01:37:58,425 --> 01:37:58,925
Because,

2666
01:37:59,545 --> 01:38:02,345
it works. Even with all the jokes, it

2667
01:38:02,345 --> 01:38:05,225
still works really well. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

2668
01:38:05,225 --> 01:38:06,824
It does work. And all you need to

2669
01:38:06,824 --> 01:38:08,765
do is have somebody that's actually,

2670
01:38:09,465 --> 01:38:12,125
felt high from that, which can happen. Yeah.

2671
01:38:12,289 --> 01:38:14,130
So it it definitely works, and we know

2672
01:38:14,130 --> 01:38:15,329
that it can get in there. And it's

2673
01:38:15,329 --> 01:38:17,489
no different than any other medication that we

2674
01:38:17,489 --> 01:38:20,390
use a rectal suppository for. Right? And so

2675
01:38:20,449 --> 01:38:23,250
it's getting absorbed in through that passageway, just

2676
01:38:23,250 --> 01:38:25,430
like any other medication. I think the biggest,

2677
01:38:25,890 --> 01:38:27,350
the the difference between,

2678
01:38:27,775 --> 01:38:29,695
you know, the one thing to pay attention

2679
01:38:29,695 --> 01:38:31,534
to is how deep you're putting it in.

2680
01:38:31,534 --> 01:38:33,715
Because if it's lower down in the rectum,

2681
01:38:33,935 --> 01:38:35,155
then you are

2682
01:38:35,614 --> 01:38:38,095
not you're most likely not gonna go through

2683
01:38:38,095 --> 01:38:40,255
first pass metabolism. And so that's gonna go

2684
01:38:40,255 --> 01:38:42,815
directly into your lymphatic circulation, and so it's

2685
01:38:42,815 --> 01:38:44,630
gonna start circulating that way. If it's a

2686
01:38:44,789 --> 01:38:46,729
if it's pushed up a little bit higher,

2687
01:38:46,949 --> 01:38:48,470
then it's potential that it's gonna go into

2688
01:38:48,470 --> 01:38:49,829
your liver, and then it's gonna go through

2689
01:38:49,829 --> 01:38:51,829
that first pass metabolism, and that's gonna look

2690
01:38:51,829 --> 01:38:53,750
different just like we just said. So it's

2691
01:38:53,750 --> 01:38:55,989
still gonna do the same metabolic processes, but

2692
01:38:55,989 --> 01:38:59,130
I think it's absolutely a valid, delivery system.

2693
01:38:59,314 --> 01:39:00,835
And that's for a few reasons. If you

2694
01:39:00,835 --> 01:39:02,054
have somebody that has,

2695
01:39:02,675 --> 01:39:04,354
like, the patients that we think about that

2696
01:39:04,354 --> 01:39:05,734
use any kind of suppository,

2697
01:39:06,274 --> 01:39:08,034
you know, for problems that are kind of

2698
01:39:08,034 --> 01:39:10,594
from the belt down, but it's also for

2699
01:39:10,594 --> 01:39:12,914
the amount. Like, if they're trying to dose

2700
01:39:12,914 --> 01:39:14,960
themselves at a high amount for, you know,

2701
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:16,579
cancer patients or some people

2702
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:17,779
that, you know,

2703
01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:21,520
it it's definitely a valid administration route for

2704
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,079
sure. Because you don't get as high. Oh,

2705
01:39:24,079 --> 01:39:26,159
exactly. Yeah. Yes. It's it's totally reduced, but

2706
01:39:26,159 --> 01:39:28,275
you can still get the amount, a pretty

2707
01:39:28,275 --> 01:39:30,675
decent amount in, and that's what you're after.

2708
01:39:30,675 --> 01:39:32,515
Right? You you don't need the high to

2709
01:39:32,515 --> 01:39:34,914
have the therapeutic outcome, and that's also sometimes

2710
01:39:34,914 --> 01:39:36,515
confused in the world. It's like, no. You

2711
01:39:36,515 --> 01:39:38,435
you can have the in fact, most patients

2712
01:39:38,435 --> 01:39:39,954
don't want to be high. They want the

2713
01:39:39,954 --> 01:39:42,310
therapeutic value without the high. That's what they're

2714
01:39:42,310 --> 01:39:45,210
actually after. Well, especially at cancer protocol dosages.

2715
01:39:45,270 --> 01:39:47,270
Right? If you're if you're taking two or

2716
01:39:47,270 --> 01:39:50,229
three hundred milligrams a day, that's gonna drive

2717
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:51,449
some people batty.

2718
01:39:51,829 --> 01:39:53,590
Well, and the other thing is too, is

2719
01:39:53,590 --> 01:39:55,369
you also have to think there's a population

2720
01:39:56,154 --> 01:39:58,954
that the cancer population's a perfect example. They're

2721
01:39:58,954 --> 01:40:00,954
extremely nauseous and they're throwing up all the

2722
01:40:00,954 --> 01:40:03,034
time. So what goods inedible gonna do them?

2723
01:40:03,034 --> 01:40:04,635
Nothing. They're gonna throw it all up. Whereas

2724
01:40:04,635 --> 01:40:06,395
if you can use a suppository, you can

2725
01:40:06,395 --> 01:40:08,520
get it into them that way. Or, you

2726
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:10,439
know, you can use inhalation, but that's fast

2727
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:12,619
on, fast off. Right? So you don't necessarily

2728
01:40:12,679 --> 01:40:14,439
want that either. You wanna hold the therapeutic

2729
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:16,520
dose, and by using suppositories, you can do

2730
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:17,020
that.

2731
01:40:17,399 --> 01:40:19,260
But the other place that I think suppositories

2732
01:40:19,639 --> 01:40:22,599
are massively valuable, and I speak about this

2733
01:40:22,599 --> 01:40:24,515
all the time, is for females

2734
01:40:25,135 --> 01:40:27,135
and not I'm talking, well, you can still

2735
01:40:27,135 --> 01:40:27,775
use it,

2736
01:40:28,255 --> 01:40:30,975
you know, rectally, but vaginal suppositories as well

2737
01:40:30,975 --> 01:40:31,475
because

2738
01:40:31,935 --> 01:40:35,055
for premenstrual pain or any kind of pain

2739
01:40:35,055 --> 01:40:37,710
down in the female reproductive system. And so,

2740
01:40:38,109 --> 01:40:40,029
I've worked with many athletes, and I've spoken

2741
01:40:40,029 --> 01:40:42,430
about this a lot. Female athletes are crippled

2742
01:40:42,430 --> 01:40:44,510
once a month from menstrual cramps, and it

2743
01:40:44,510 --> 01:40:46,670
is it is not fair. And I'm so

2744
01:40:46,670 --> 01:40:49,229
glad that the NCAA changed their regulations for

2745
01:40:49,229 --> 01:40:50,449
just this reason alone.

2746
01:40:50,905 --> 01:40:52,664
It it was not fair that they couldn't

2747
01:40:52,664 --> 01:40:55,545
use cannabinoids for this because they work so

2748
01:40:55,545 --> 01:40:58,125
well for this. Because if you think of

2749
01:40:58,265 --> 01:41:00,505
menstrual pain, it is all types of pain.

2750
01:41:00,505 --> 01:41:03,064
It is inflammatory pain. It is no susceptive

2751
01:41:03,064 --> 01:41:05,225
pain, and it is neuropathic pain. It is

2752
01:41:05,225 --> 01:41:07,119
it is all kinds of pain. And we

2753
01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:10,000
also know that there are second to the

2754
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:12,960
brain, the female and the female reproductive system

2755
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:16,260
has the most highest concentration of cannabinoid receptors.

2756
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:18,420
So if you're looking for a good target,

2757
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:21,534
that's it. And the closer you can get

2758
01:41:21,534 --> 01:41:23,795
to the place where you're having the problem,

2759
01:41:24,335 --> 01:41:25,954
you know, by using this suppository,

2760
01:41:26,414 --> 01:41:28,175
the better your results are gonna be. And

2761
01:41:28,175 --> 01:41:29,695
so you can get it, you know, you

2762
01:41:29,695 --> 01:41:31,614
can use it as a suppository, and there's

2763
01:41:31,614 --> 01:41:33,534
some now available on the market, you know,

2764
01:41:33,534 --> 01:41:35,909
different ratios and stuff. But you're able to

2765
01:41:35,909 --> 01:41:36,470
get it,

2766
01:41:37,030 --> 01:41:38,470
you know, to where you need it to

2767
01:41:38,470 --> 01:41:39,690
go. And again,

2768
01:41:40,070 --> 01:41:42,470
it's it's they're not looking for a high,

2769
01:41:42,470 --> 01:41:44,949
clearly, but they're looking to actually be a

2770
01:41:44,949 --> 01:41:46,710
more direct hit to the tissue and the

2771
01:41:46,710 --> 01:41:49,034
nerves that are having the problem. And so

2772
01:41:49,114 --> 01:41:49,614
endometriosis

2773
01:41:50,074 --> 01:41:51,994
has quite a bit of good data actually

2774
01:41:51,994 --> 01:41:52,735
on it,

2775
01:41:53,114 --> 01:41:54,735
using cannabinoid products.

2776
01:41:55,275 --> 01:41:56,574
Mostly, it's, you know,

2777
01:41:58,074 --> 01:42:00,314
retrospective analysis and stuff like that. Like, they

2778
01:42:00,314 --> 01:42:01,920
don't have clinical trials, but there is some

2779
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:04,079
pretty good data to show that cannabinoids work

2780
01:42:04,079 --> 01:42:05,460
very well in that population.

2781
01:42:06,239 --> 01:42:07,619
And we know in endometriosis

2782
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:10,079
that there's a massive upregulation of the TRP

2783
01:42:10,079 --> 01:42:12,880
v one channels. And and we know that

2784
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:14,880
CBD is a direct agonist at the TRP

2785
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:17,164
v one receptors, which is, you know, also

2786
01:42:17,164 --> 01:42:20,204
the capsaicin receptor. But it agonizes it to

2787
01:42:20,204 --> 01:42:22,204
the point that it desensitizes it. And that's

2788
01:42:22,204 --> 01:42:23,965
how it works in in any pain in

2789
01:42:23,965 --> 01:42:26,144
our body. But we know specific to endometriosis

2790
01:42:26,684 --> 01:42:29,640
tissue that there's there's a a weird upregulation

2791
01:42:29,779 --> 01:42:31,380
of these TRP v one receptors. Like, there's

2792
01:42:31,380 --> 01:42:33,140
a lot of them. So why wouldn't you

2793
01:42:33,140 --> 01:42:34,739
try to hit it with something that's gonna

2794
01:42:34,739 --> 01:42:36,979
desensitize it and reduce your pain on top

2795
01:42:36,979 --> 01:42:38,659
of the fact it's going to reduce the

2796
01:42:38,659 --> 01:42:39,960
actual tissue inflammation,

2797
01:42:40,420 --> 01:42:42,420
and it's gonna reduce any of the nerve

2798
01:42:42,420 --> 01:42:42,920
triggering?

2799
01:42:46,145 --> 01:42:49,204
Wow. I'm thinking about that cascade of effects.

2800
01:42:49,984 --> 01:42:50,484
And,

2801
01:42:51,505 --> 01:42:52,965
it's interesting how

2802
01:42:53,984 --> 01:42:55,744
selective it is. Right? Because we we think

2803
01:42:55,744 --> 01:42:57,925
about the effects that happen medically

2804
01:42:58,630 --> 01:43:00,649
from ingesting the cannabinoids.

2805
01:43:01,350 --> 01:43:02,569
Yeah. But then when

2806
01:43:02,869 --> 01:43:05,109
when when we're when we're bringing them into

2807
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:07,449
the body through the anal or vaginal wall,

2808
01:43:08,069 --> 01:43:10,710
it has different effects. And so it's like,

2809
01:43:10,710 --> 01:43:13,385
yeah, you're you're kind of getting a selected

2810
01:43:13,524 --> 01:43:14,024
subset

2811
01:43:14,725 --> 01:43:16,585
of what cannabis can do,

2812
01:43:17,125 --> 01:43:17,625
and

2813
01:43:18,244 --> 01:43:20,309
it makes it kind of like a a

2814
01:43:20,309 --> 01:43:21,944
a a a a specialist

2815
01:43:22,484 --> 01:43:23,784
for special patients.

2816
01:43:24,404 --> 01:43:26,324
Yeah. For sure. Because when you look at

2817
01:43:26,324 --> 01:43:28,720
what what receptors are up regulating there, they

2818
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:30,420
are very receptive to

2819
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,119
cannabinoid molecules. Like, the TRP v one is

2820
01:43:33,119 --> 01:43:35,280
a target for any pain, but, you know,

2821
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:37,840
if you know that endometrial tissue has a

2822
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:40,154
high, high concentration of TRPV one receptors, of

2823
01:43:40,154 --> 01:43:41,594
course, you should be trying to hit it.

2824
01:43:41,594 --> 01:43:44,395
This is also the best, evidence I've heard

2825
01:43:44,395 --> 01:43:44,895
for

2826
01:43:46,715 --> 01:43:50,074
location targeting for your cannabis. Right? I mean,

2827
01:43:50,074 --> 01:43:52,234
we're all familiar with, like, oh, you've got

2828
01:43:52,234 --> 01:43:53,039
a sore shoulder.

2829
01:43:54,399 --> 01:43:56,260
You know, use a THC

2830
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:57,380
topical

2831
01:43:58,079 --> 01:44:00,479
with a carrier that can get through the

2832
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:00,979
dermis

2833
01:44:01,359 --> 01:44:03,439
and put it on your shoulder directly. That's

2834
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:04,899
great. But this,

2835
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:07,780
using anal or vaginal suppositories,

2836
01:44:08,159 --> 01:44:08,909
you can

2837
01:44:09,975 --> 01:44:13,735
location or proximity target for anything that's going

2838
01:44:13,735 --> 01:44:16,215
on in the whole hip area, you know,

2839
01:44:16,215 --> 01:44:17,914
from the from the belt to the knees.

2840
01:44:18,295 --> 01:44:20,295
Yeah. Yeah. And and the other thing too,

2841
01:44:20,295 --> 01:44:22,295
just because we're talking about pain and, like,

2842
01:44:22,295 --> 01:44:23,895
you know, rubbing something on your shoulder. But

2843
01:44:23,975 --> 01:44:26,260
Sure. When you think about pain, and this,

2844
01:44:26,260 --> 01:44:27,939
again, is a discussion that would be far

2845
01:44:27,939 --> 01:44:29,619
beyond the amount of time that we have.

2846
01:44:29,619 --> 01:44:31,300
But like, you know, the question is always

2847
01:44:31,300 --> 01:44:32,119
okay, well,

2848
01:44:32,819 --> 01:44:34,659
where is the pain actually coming from? Is

2849
01:44:34,659 --> 01:44:36,659
it coming from the location in the tissue

2850
01:44:36,659 --> 01:44:38,739
where there's actual inflammation? Or is it coming

2851
01:44:38,739 --> 01:44:41,435
from your brain that's processing that signal? And

2852
01:44:41,435 --> 01:44:42,635
that is how we can get in there

2853
01:44:42,635 --> 01:44:45,135
with cannabinoids because we can intercept the signal.

2854
01:44:45,354 --> 01:44:47,295
And so, you know, you have an ascending

2855
01:44:47,354 --> 01:44:49,194
pathway that sent when you have an injury

2856
01:44:49,194 --> 01:44:51,675
of any kind, whether it's menstrual or just

2857
01:44:51,675 --> 01:44:54,640
any kind of pain, you know, your sensory

2858
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:56,720
neurons again, now we're in the autonomic nervous

2859
01:44:56,720 --> 01:44:59,039
system. Again, your sensory neurons are patrolling whatever.

2860
01:44:59,039 --> 01:45:00,260
It's telling your brain,

2861
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:02,720
like, yeah, we got a problem. Something hurts.

2862
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:04,560
So it's sending up and your brain is

2863
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:07,555
interpreting that. With cannabinoids, we know, and then

2864
01:45:07,555 --> 01:45:10,354
there's a descending pathway that comes down, and

2865
01:45:10,354 --> 01:45:13,015
it inhibits that pain signal. Right? Okay. So

2866
01:45:13,155 --> 01:45:16,435
if that descending inhibitory pathway does not happen

2867
01:45:16,435 --> 01:45:19,175
correctly, then you're not inhibiting the pain signals.

2868
01:45:19,440 --> 01:45:21,140
We know that the periaqueductal

2869
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:25,039
gray in your brain is pretty dense with

2870
01:45:25,039 --> 01:45:28,320
cannabinoid receptors. And if we hit them and

2871
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:30,560
we activate that, then we know that we

2872
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:32,100
can increase the inhibitory

2873
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:34,340
path like, the descending inhibitory

2874
01:45:34,994 --> 01:45:36,994
pain pathway, so to turn off the pain.

2875
01:45:36,994 --> 01:45:39,014
Right? Like, shut it down type of thing.

2876
01:45:39,314 --> 01:45:41,554
So we also know that by hitting that

2877
01:45:41,554 --> 01:45:42,694
CB one receptor

2878
01:45:42,994 --> 01:45:46,194
with the ascending pathway, the afferent pathways that

2879
01:45:46,194 --> 01:45:47,635
are going up to your brain to tell

2880
01:45:47,635 --> 01:45:50,070
your brain something hurts, we can also intercept

2881
01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:51,770
those with cannabinoid molecules.

2882
01:45:52,070 --> 01:45:52,570
So

2883
01:45:52,949 --> 01:45:54,489
because pain is a sensation.

2884
01:45:54,949 --> 01:45:56,869
There there it isn't a thing. It's an

2885
01:45:56,869 --> 01:45:57,369
interpretation

2886
01:45:57,829 --> 01:45:59,530
of this signal, and it's

2887
01:45:59,989 --> 01:46:00,649
a emotional

2888
01:46:01,045 --> 01:46:03,545
response. And so I actually did a presentation

2889
01:46:03,604 --> 01:46:05,444
on how we could use cannabinoids for, again,

2890
01:46:05,444 --> 01:46:08,104
menstrual pain, but pain is also an emotional

2891
01:46:08,324 --> 01:46:10,644
response. Right? It it's and we know the

2892
01:46:10,644 --> 01:46:12,425
autonomic nervous system and the endocannabinoid

2893
01:46:12,804 --> 01:46:15,479
system are bidirectional. So, you know, when your

2894
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:18,300
autonomic nervous system's freaking out, well, your endocannabinoid

2895
01:46:18,519 --> 01:46:20,619
system's freaking out too. Right? Like, they go

2896
01:46:20,679 --> 01:46:21,579
they go together.

2897
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,779
That also explains why CBG is so effective

2898
01:46:25,079 --> 01:46:25,579
as

2899
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:28,039
a pain reliever. Not only because it can

2900
01:46:28,039 --> 01:46:30,359
help with the neuropathic pain Yeah. But also

2901
01:46:30,359 --> 01:46:30,734
specifically,

2902
01:46:32,335 --> 01:46:35,375
it it encourages the patient to feel like

2903
01:46:35,375 --> 01:46:38,335
they can handle the pain. Right? Exactly. It

2904
01:46:38,335 --> 01:46:41,135
it handles how they interpret the signal, which

2905
01:46:41,135 --> 01:46:43,099
is which is a huge thing. You know?

2906
01:46:43,099 --> 01:46:44,300
Yeah. If you're gonna have the if you're

2907
01:46:44,300 --> 01:46:46,460
gonna be in furious pain all day one

2908
01:46:46,460 --> 01:46:48,460
way or another, you you might as well

2909
01:46:48,460 --> 01:46:51,099
be positive about it. And CBG really helps

2910
01:46:51,099 --> 01:46:53,340
that. Yep. And and the patients will usually

2911
01:46:53,340 --> 01:46:54,859
say, like, it's and that's also too, like,

2912
01:46:54,859 --> 01:46:56,595
you know, one of the indications that's most

2913
01:46:56,595 --> 01:47:00,114
accepted for cannabinoid medication is neuropathic pain because

2914
01:47:00,114 --> 01:47:02,914
of because where those cannabinoid receptors are on

2915
01:47:02,914 --> 01:47:04,835
the nerve, right, we know that's a different

2916
01:47:04,835 --> 01:47:06,914
type of pain than nociceptive pain, which is

2917
01:47:06,914 --> 01:47:08,755
a pain of tissue. Like, when you put

2918
01:47:08,755 --> 01:47:10,114
your hand on the stove and you pull

2919
01:47:10,114 --> 01:47:12,719
it off. Right? Different thing. But, yeah, I

2920
01:47:12,719 --> 01:47:14,880
mean, it's it's when you talk to patients

2921
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:17,219
that are using it for pain, they will

2922
01:47:17,439 --> 01:47:19,439
say, my pain is not gone. It's just

2923
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:21,840
it's background noise. It's still there, but I

2924
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:24,239
can still function. And it's because you're you

2925
01:47:24,239 --> 01:47:24,739
are

2926
01:47:25,194 --> 01:47:25,694
intercepting

2927
01:47:26,074 --> 01:47:29,435
the part where those pain messages were screaming

2928
01:47:29,435 --> 01:47:31,114
at them, and it was all they heard

2929
01:47:31,114 --> 01:47:33,034
all day long. You can turn off the

2930
01:47:33,034 --> 01:47:34,954
pain signals. Yes. The pain is still there,

2931
01:47:34,954 --> 01:47:36,475
but you know what? It's in the background.

2932
01:47:36,475 --> 01:47:37,835
I can still get on with my day

2933
01:47:37,835 --> 01:47:39,920
and do my thing. So it's not taking

2934
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:42,479
the pain away. It's making the pain background

2935
01:47:42,479 --> 01:47:45,199
noise, you know? But and and chronic pain

2936
01:47:45,199 --> 01:47:47,520
is different than acute pain. Right? And we

2937
01:47:47,520 --> 01:47:49,600
know that the brain changes when, when you

2938
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:52,159
have chronic pain, there are different areas of

2939
01:47:52,159 --> 01:47:54,744
your brain that actually move from a state

2940
01:47:54,744 --> 01:47:57,385
of, like, acute pain. It's doing some certain

2941
01:47:57,385 --> 01:47:59,385
things. And once that turns into a chronic

2942
01:47:59,385 --> 01:48:02,104
pain, the brain profile is different. And so

2943
01:48:02,104 --> 01:48:04,345
we know that there's actually a shift. And

2944
01:48:04,345 --> 01:48:06,585
so with chronic pain, that is one of

2945
01:48:06,585 --> 01:48:08,369
the best indications that we get the best

2946
01:48:08,449 --> 01:48:10,289
results from in pain patients is people that

2947
01:48:10,289 --> 01:48:12,369
have chronic pain. And it's because of how

2948
01:48:12,369 --> 01:48:14,770
we can intercept that signaling. Right? Your body

2949
01:48:14,770 --> 01:48:16,869
is one humongous signaling molecule.

2950
01:48:17,489 --> 01:48:19,329
Well, a million signaling molecules. What is just

2951
01:48:19,329 --> 01:48:21,729
one big signaling thing? One big collection, one

2952
01:48:21,729 --> 01:48:24,345
big basket of signaling molecules. Signals. Yeah.

2953
01:48:25,864 --> 01:48:27,864
Days when I get all kind of like,

2954
01:48:27,864 --> 01:48:28,685
you know, flitterpated,

2955
01:48:28,985 --> 01:48:31,085
you know, I'm I'm feeling I'm feeling overwhelmed.

2956
01:48:31,145 --> 01:48:33,244
I'm just all like too many signals

2957
01:48:34,104 --> 01:48:34,765
are activated.

2958
01:48:35,145 --> 01:48:37,225
Yeah. Maybe I will go sit down. So,

2959
01:48:37,225 --> 01:48:39,989
yeah. Exactly. So Liz, thank you so much

2960
01:48:39,989 --> 01:48:42,729
for joining us today on Shaping Fire.

2961
01:48:43,590 --> 01:48:45,429
This was exactly the kind of talk that

2962
01:48:45,429 --> 01:48:48,229
I was looking for. Your your ability I

2963
01:48:48,229 --> 01:48:50,630
mean, your depth is obvious, but also your

2964
01:48:50,630 --> 01:48:53,210
ability to put things in layman's terms so

2965
01:48:53,234 --> 01:48:55,554
we can bring everybody along with us is

2966
01:48:55,554 --> 01:48:58,194
really phenomenal. And so thank you for sharing

2967
01:48:58,194 --> 01:48:58,694
your

2968
01:48:59,074 --> 01:49:02,034
experience and your expertise with us so we

2969
01:49:02,034 --> 01:49:04,114
could really dig into what happens in our

2970
01:49:04,114 --> 01:49:06,354
body in the first five minutes after we

2971
01:49:06,354 --> 01:49:06,854
toke.

2972
01:49:07,539 --> 01:49:09,460
Yep. For sure. I'm so happy to be

2973
01:49:09,460 --> 01:49:11,699
here, and I I am honored to be

2974
01:49:11,699 --> 01:49:13,220
on your show because I listen to it

2975
01:49:13,220 --> 01:49:14,739
a lot, so I don't really feel like

2976
01:49:14,739 --> 01:49:16,659
I'm even qualified to sit in this chair,

2977
01:49:16,659 --> 01:49:18,659
but I am so happy that I was

2978
01:49:18,659 --> 01:49:20,645
invited on, and it was a pleasure. Well,

2979
01:49:20,645 --> 01:49:23,305
congratulations on that PhD. We know you're qualified.

2980
01:49:23,844 --> 01:49:26,244
And, and I'll look forward to having you

2981
01:49:26,244 --> 01:49:28,645
again, on the show down the line when

2982
01:49:28,645 --> 01:49:31,204
you have some, new research to discuss. So

2983
01:49:31,204 --> 01:49:31,864
thank you.

2984
01:49:32,260 --> 01:49:33,560
Yeah. Absolutely. Anytime.

2985
01:49:34,020 --> 01:49:36,260
Alright, my dear listeners. So if you are

2986
01:49:36,260 --> 01:49:40,119
interested in knowing more about doctor Elizabeth Thompson,

2987
01:49:40,260 --> 01:49:42,119
you can follow along with her work.

2988
01:49:43,380 --> 01:49:45,060
The best place to do that is probably

2989
01:49:45,060 --> 01:49:45,720
on Instagram,

2990
01:49:46,164 --> 01:49:50,104
and that Instagram profile is train with dot

2991
01:49:50,645 --> 01:49:51,385
Mary Jane.

2992
01:49:51,764 --> 01:49:52,264
Train

2993
01:49:52,564 --> 01:49:53,064
with

2994
01:49:53,524 --> 01:49:56,645
dot Mary Jane. And you can keep up

2995
01:49:56,645 --> 01:49:58,185
with all of doctor Thompson's,

2996
01:49:58,645 --> 01:49:59,145
research

2997
01:49:59,810 --> 01:50:02,530
and her speaking engagements and where she'll be

2998
01:50:02,530 --> 01:50:04,710
online and webinars and all that good stuff.

2999
01:50:05,090 --> 01:50:07,090
And then, if you also wanna keep up

3000
01:50:07,090 --> 01:50:08,470
with the research long term,

3001
01:50:08,930 --> 01:50:12,770
you can do so at trainwithmaryjane.com,

3002
01:50:12,770 --> 01:50:13,989
which is where she publishes

3003
01:50:14,515 --> 01:50:15,255
her research.

3004
01:50:15,795 --> 01:50:18,835
You can also follow her on LinkedIn, but,

3005
01:50:19,395 --> 01:50:21,975
but Liz was pretty clear that she is,

3006
01:50:22,515 --> 01:50:24,675
you know, she's a researcher's researcher and that's

3007
01:50:24,675 --> 01:50:26,435
where she is most of the time. And

3008
01:50:26,435 --> 01:50:27,555
she doesn't have a lot of time to

3009
01:50:27,555 --> 01:50:29,015
get back with people. So,

3010
01:50:29,460 --> 01:50:31,460
so it might you'll probably do better to

3011
01:50:31,460 --> 01:50:34,199
follow along and passively receive information

3012
01:50:34,900 --> 01:50:36,979
on IG versus, you know, trying to ping

3013
01:50:36,979 --> 01:50:38,420
her with a bunch of letters. But, you

3014
01:50:38,420 --> 01:50:39,860
know, if you've got if you've got an

3015
01:50:39,860 --> 01:50:41,860
idea to work together or opportunities, by all

3016
01:50:41,860 --> 01:50:46,244
means, reach out to her at @trainwith.MaryJane.

3017
01:50:46,244 --> 01:50:47,925
You can find more episodes of the Shaping

3018
01:50:47,925 --> 01:50:50,085
Fire podcast and subscribe to the show at

3019
01:50:50,085 --> 01:50:51,284
shapingfire.com

3020
01:50:51,284 --> 01:50:52,905
and wherever you get your podcasts.

3021
01:50:53,284 --> 01:50:55,125
If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate

3022
01:50:55,125 --> 01:50:56,485
it if you would leave a positive review

3023
01:50:56,485 --> 01:50:58,345
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3024
01:50:58,849 --> 01:51:00,770
Your review will help others find the show

3025
01:51:00,770 --> 01:51:02,770
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3026
01:51:02,770 --> 01:51:05,010
Shaping Fire website, you can also subscribe to

3027
01:51:05,010 --> 01:51:07,489
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3028
01:51:07,489 --> 01:51:09,750
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3029
01:51:10,369 --> 01:51:12,050
On the Shaping Fire website, you will also

3030
01:51:12,050 --> 01:51:14,984
find transcripts of today's podcast as well. Be

3031
01:51:14,984 --> 01:51:17,064
sure to follow on Instagram for all original

3032
01:51:17,064 --> 01:51:18,844
content not found on the podcast.

3033
01:51:19,225 --> 01:51:22,024
That's at shaping fire and at shango lows

3034
01:51:22,024 --> 01:51:22,764
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3035
01:51:23,145 --> 01:51:25,064
Be sure to check out Shaping Fire YouTube

3036
01:51:25,064 --> 01:51:27,784
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3037
01:51:27,784 --> 01:51:28,284
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3038
01:51:28,860 --> 01:51:30,619
Does your company want to reach our national

3039
01:51:30,619 --> 01:51:32,239
audience of cannabis enthusiasts?

3040
01:51:32,699 --> 01:51:35,180
Email hotspot@shapingfire.com

3041
01:51:35,180 --> 01:51:37,260
to find out how. Thanks for listening to

3042
01:51:37,260 --> 01:51:40,399
Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.