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I think it is fair to say that

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most people who enjoy cannabis do so because

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of the THC in cannabis.

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That said, I know plenty of people who

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are focused on the other cannabinoids for either

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health or commerce reasons.

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Plenty of people obtain their relief through CBD

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or CBG or CBN or other other novel

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cannabinoids.

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And next generation products like beverages infused with

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these cannabinoids have become a huge hit in

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the market.

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But many of these companies are held back

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because those other

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other cannabinoids are associated too directly with the

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wrongly persecuted THC molecule.

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Hemp has been one way to try and

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take a half step away from full THC

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plants in order to gain access to the

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other cannabinoids.

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But now, many states including California

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have made cannabinoids from hemp even disallowed.

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For example, I used to love Creek River

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Botanical hops and cannabinoid beverages, but I can't

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00:01:05,369 --> 00:01:07,689
find their products anywhere now due to the

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change in California law interpretation.

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While it was foolish from the beginning to

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prohibit the cannabis plant at all,

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prohibiting access to the non THC cannabinoids

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is even worse.

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It's like dumbs stacked upon ignorance.

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It sure would be great if we could

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get cannabinoids from a secondary plant that doesn't

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have THC in it at all, wouldn't it?

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If you want to learn about cannabis health,

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cultivation and technique efficiently and with good cheer,

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00:01:37,119 --> 00:01:39,194
I encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter.

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with commentary on a couple of the most

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too.

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Sign up for the updates to make sure

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If you like what we do and want

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to put something in the chip jar, you

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can Venmo

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at Shango Los.

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You are listening to Shaping Fire and I

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am your host, Shango Los. Welcome to episode

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121.

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My guest today is doctor Paula Berman.

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Doctor Berman earned her bachelor's in biotechnology

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engineering and her master's and PhD in environmental

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engineering from Ben Gurion University.

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Throughout her studies, she worked in the plant

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lipid biotechnology

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lab under professor Zea Wiesemann

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focusing on the chemistry of vegetable oils and

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their applications in biodiesel production.

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She completed her first post doctoral fellowship in

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the cancer biology and

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the Technion's faculty of biology

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led by professor Diddy Mary.

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As the lab's lead analytical chemist, she developed

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mass spectrometry methods to identify over a hundred

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cannabinoids in cannabis as well as endocannabinoids

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and related compounds.

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Paula then joined the lab of professor Essoff

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Aharoni

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at the plant science department at the Weizmann

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Institute where she completed a second post doc

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and now serves as a research associate.

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Her research focuses on the biosynthetic

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pathways of cannabinoids and psychedelics with therapeutic potential.

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This coming summer, Paula will establish her own

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research lab at the Volcanic Agricultural Center where

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she will continue investigating

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medicinal plants and their specialized metabolites.

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This is truly impressive work.

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Today, we're gonna learn about the woolly umbrella

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plant, better known in the lab as the

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heli.

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We conducted today's interview halfway around the world

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from each other, so there are a few

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echoes and minor drops today, but nothing annoying.

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During the first set, we will discuss the

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botanical attributes,

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distribution,

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and uses for the heli plant. In the

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second set, we dig into the various cannabinoids,

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extraction methods, and applications.

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And we finish the episode with a short

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discussion about the future of this amazing plant

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both commercially and scientifically.

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Welcome to Shaping Fire, doctor Berman.

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Hello, Sango. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Thank you so much for taking time, especially

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since we are so far separated in the

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world today to be up late talking to

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me and early here. I I appreciate you

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making a special time for us. It's my

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pleasure. Thank you for this invitation.

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So let's start off with the simple basics

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with, the woolly umbrella plant. It has a

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complex, to me, scientific name. I tried to

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say it a bunch of times in preparation

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for our interview today, and and each time

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I said it different. So instead of me

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embarrassing myself, let us please start would you

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say the scientific name for us so that

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we can all learn it together?

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So the name is,

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elichrysum

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umbracoligerum.

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Thank you. That is a mouthful.

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It's also tough for us. Yeah. I believe

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it. So woolly umbrella is the common name

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that I have most come across. Is that

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your preferred common name

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as well? So actually,

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in the lab, we call the plant heli

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as a nickname. Oh, that's cool. Heli from

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the from the from the from its proper

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Latin name. Great.

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And so great. So I'll probably go back

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and forth between heli and woolly just so

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I can feel scientific.

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So so let let's start with, the distribution

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of the heli. Where is the heli plant

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00:05:33,925 --> 00:05:36,104
found, and what are its basic characteristics?

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So it's the the origin is in South

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Africa, in the Eastern

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Part of South Africa.

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It's,

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it's a

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a perennial herb.

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It grows all year round.

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It flowers,

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00:05:52,485 --> 00:05:54,425
around January to April.

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It's an ornamental plant in South Africa. It

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grows wild.

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It has,

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silver hairy leaves

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and with

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beautiful bright yellow flowers that look like umbrellas,

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and that's where the name of the plant

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comes from.

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The,

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you said that it's used for ornamental

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purposes primarily. Does it have a reputation as

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a medicinal plant at all, or or was

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this,

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a surprise to find medicinal properties in this

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plant?

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So

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a lot of helichrysum plants

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from South Africa have medicinal

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purposes.

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It's known to be burnt in rituals,

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in cleansing rituals to

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connect to ancestors, to provide spiritual guidance, and

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induce trances.

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The

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Zulu tribes use a lot of helichrysum species

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as part of their traditional

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medicine.

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But to be honest, we couldn't find exact

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proof whether this specifically chryosome

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plant, heli plant,

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has medicinal purposes. I mean, we know now

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about many of the

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molecules that the plant

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biosynthesis,

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the plant the molecules that the plant accumulates.

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But we cannot say for sure what are

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the exact medicinal purposes.

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We found a study, for example, that found

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that

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00:07:29,564 --> 00:07:32,225
extracts from the lycrae zone plant

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00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:36,520
have a GABA receptor

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binding effect, which,

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possibly have anxiolytic

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effect, anti epileptic, or can be used for

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insomnia.

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00:07:45,139 --> 00:07:47,000
And there are also a lot of,

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other molecules that have

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00:07:49,774 --> 00:07:50,995
many different bioactivities.

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00:07:52,495 --> 00:07:54,735
But the really interesting thing about this plant

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is that it's really been

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overlooked over the years. It's not been studied

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and there's there is very little information about

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00:08:02,895 --> 00:08:03,300
it.

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00:08:03,779 --> 00:08:05,779
Well, that's fun because that way you get

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00:08:05,779 --> 00:08:07,139
to explore all the parts of it that

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00:08:07,139 --> 00:08:08,979
you want to. You don't have to go

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00:08:08,979 --> 00:08:11,060
just for the pockets of lacking research. That's

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00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:12,899
great to be the the first to a

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00:08:12,899 --> 00:08:13,399
plant.

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00:08:13,939 --> 00:08:17,175
Where where on the plant do the cannabinoids,

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00:08:18,835 --> 00:08:20,215
appear? Are they expressed?

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00:08:20,915 --> 00:08:22,514
As you know, our you know, the show

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00:08:22,514 --> 00:08:23,175
that we're

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00:08:23,795 --> 00:08:25,875
on shaping fire, we are mostly focused on

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00:08:25,875 --> 00:08:28,915
the cannabis plant, but really cannabinoid medicine in

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00:08:28,915 --> 00:08:30,850
general, which is how I found my way

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00:08:30,850 --> 00:08:34,070
to you. And in cannabis, the the cannabinoids

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00:08:34,210 --> 00:08:36,450
are grown in the resinous flowers. Where are

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00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:38,470
they grown, in the heli plant?

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00:08:38,929 --> 00:08:41,190
So in the heli plant, we found carbonates

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00:08:41,330 --> 00:08:43,429
in all the aerial parts of the plant,

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00:08:44,529 --> 00:08:45,590
besides roots.

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00:08:47,115 --> 00:08:50,414
So basically any type of tissue that contains

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00:08:51,355 --> 00:08:54,075
glandular trichons. So similar in cannabis, in cannabis

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you have,

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so inflorescence

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00:08:57,195 --> 00:08:59,820
of cannabis are the most abundant in glandular

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00:08:59,879 --> 00:09:01,980
trichomes, and this is where these,

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00:09:02,919 --> 00:09:06,120
cannabinoids are biosynthesised and where they accumulate. So

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00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,519
similarly, we found it also in the heli

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00:09:08,519 --> 00:09:09,019
plant.

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00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,600
They are biosynthesised and they accumulate to these

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00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,534
glandular trichomes. And these are most abundant in

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00:09:15,534 --> 00:09:16,834
leaves, actually.

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00:09:17,534 --> 00:09:19,774
We found them also very abundant in flowers,

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00:09:19,774 --> 00:09:20,274
but,

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most interesting

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00:09:22,254 --> 00:09:25,375
and the highest potential for us is, the

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00:09:25,375 --> 00:09:26,115
fact that

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00:09:26,574 --> 00:09:28,274
they accumulate the most in leaves.

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00:09:28,899 --> 00:09:31,000
Since they are in trichomes,

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00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:34,580
glandular trichomes in the heli plant just like

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00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:35,639
they are in cannabis,

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00:09:36,019 --> 00:09:38,179
when you rub the plant with your finger,

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00:09:38,179 --> 00:09:40,919
will you burst trichomes and get the smell

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00:09:40,980 --> 00:09:42,679
of the aroma of the plant?

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00:09:43,695 --> 00:09:45,615
So you do. I mean, it's it's quite

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00:09:45,615 --> 00:09:46,915
different than in cannabis.

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00:09:48,175 --> 00:09:49,134
You have a very,

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00:09:49,535 --> 00:09:52,195
light aroma, very nice aroma, like a perfume,

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00:09:53,215 --> 00:09:54,894
from the leaves. And when you rub them,

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00:09:54,894 --> 00:09:56,035
you have this resinous,

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00:09:56,894 --> 00:09:59,850
material on your fingers, definitely. Oh, cool.

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00:10:00,309 --> 00:10:03,830
So so you spearheaded this comprehensive study that

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00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:06,889
unveiled the plant's rather unique ability to produce

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00:10:06,950 --> 00:10:07,450
cannabinoids.

255
00:10:07,909 --> 00:10:10,230
I'm I'm really interested in what I guess

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00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:12,570
I'll call the ignition point of this idea.

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00:10:13,004 --> 00:10:15,725
So, you know, finding cannabinoids in plants is

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00:10:15,725 --> 00:10:18,365
so atypical, I think, that it wouldn't be

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00:10:18,365 --> 00:10:20,625
the first thing that I would look for.

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00:10:21,165 --> 00:10:23,404
It begs the question, which came first? Did

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00:10:23,404 --> 00:10:25,504
you did you go to this plant looking

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00:10:25,565 --> 00:10:26,545
for cannabinoids?

263
00:10:27,450 --> 00:10:28,190
Or somehow

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00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:30,350
did you come across them accidentally

265
00:10:30,889 --> 00:10:32,970
in the lab and then you explored what

266
00:10:32,970 --> 00:10:35,690
you found? Which which came first when deciding

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00:10:35,690 --> 00:10:36,590
to go into,

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00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:38,670
working with this heli plant?

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00:10:39,210 --> 00:10:41,370
So, actually, we were not the first ones

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00:10:41,370 --> 00:10:43,835
that found that the plant produces cannabinoids.

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00:10:44,455 --> 00:10:47,514
There is a German paper from 1979,

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00:10:48,295 --> 00:10:50,935
that found that the plant produces large amounts

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00:10:50,935 --> 00:10:51,675
of CBGA,

274
00:10:55,199 --> 00:10:56,339
along with other

275
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:57,220
molecules,

276
00:10:58,639 --> 00:11:01,620
a more protein type molecules and some other

277
00:11:01,919 --> 00:11:02,419
types.

278
00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:04,019
But

279
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,884
despite the fact that the plant that that

280
00:11:08,884 --> 00:11:10,985
it was shown that the plant produces cannabinoids,

281
00:11:11,205 --> 00:11:13,304
this plant was very largely overlooked.

282
00:11:14,245 --> 00:11:16,725
There were no additional studies looking into the

283
00:11:16,725 --> 00:11:17,225
phytochemistry,

284
00:11:18,165 --> 00:11:19,865
and no genome, no transcriptome,

285
00:11:20,325 --> 00:11:23,544
no biological information whatsoever on the plant.

286
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,100
There was another study from 2018,

287
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:28,779
led by professor,

288
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,700
Talia Terras Cafati and professor Giovanni Appendino, which

289
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,639
is a very known, expert in natural product

290
00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:36,139
chemistry,

291
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:37,580
group from Italy.

292
00:11:38,204 --> 00:11:40,605
And they were also trying to confirm that

293
00:11:40,605 --> 00:11:42,384
the the plant that Halley produces,

294
00:11:43,404 --> 00:11:45,644
cannabinoids and to find what other cannabinoids it

295
00:11:45,644 --> 00:11:46,144
produces.

296
00:11:46,684 --> 00:11:48,784
And to their surprise and to our surprise,

297
00:11:49,084 --> 00:11:50,784
they couldn't find any,

298
00:11:51,164 --> 00:11:52,144
acyl cannabinoids.

299
00:11:53,830 --> 00:11:56,389
Only cannabinoid like molecules, molecules that have a

300
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:56,889
very

301
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:57,769
similar

302
00:11:59,110 --> 00:12:02,330
chemical structure like cannabinoids, but instead of alkyl

303
00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:02,889
chains,

304
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:04,730
which we find in cannabinoids,

305
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:07,210
they have an aromatic moiety.

306
00:12:07,804 --> 00:12:10,524
So in this other study from, 2018,

307
00:12:10,524 --> 00:12:13,004
they also couldn't find any cannabinoids. So when

308
00:12:13,004 --> 00:12:14,304
we started this study,

309
00:12:16,445 --> 00:12:18,605
basically, our first question was, does the plant

310
00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:20,544
produce cannabinoids or not? It wasn't,

311
00:12:21,589 --> 00:12:23,129
we it wasn't confirmed.

312
00:12:24,549 --> 00:12:26,409
So this was our starting point.

313
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:31,190
So what methods did you use to analyze

314
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:33,190
the plant for cannabinoids? What did you do

315
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:35,690
differently that, caused you to find them?

316
00:12:36,184 --> 00:12:38,264
So I I don't think that, I mean,

317
00:12:38,264 --> 00:12:40,365
we use the same methods as the other,

318
00:12:41,704 --> 00:12:43,784
Crook did, and I will, just talk about

319
00:12:43,784 --> 00:12:45,304
them very briefly. I think that,

320
00:12:45,945 --> 00:12:48,264
the difference was that, perhaps they were using

321
00:12:48,264 --> 00:12:50,940
a different camo bar that, in their camover.

322
00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:53,100
So, like, you have in cannabis high THC,

323
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:55,279
high CBD, high CBG, and so on,

324
00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:57,899
types of camover. So perhaps they were,

325
00:12:58,379 --> 00:12:58,879
analyzing,

326
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:01,179
a camover that doesn't have,

327
00:13:01,659 --> 00:13:02,159
cannabinoids.

328
00:13:03,634 --> 00:13:04,134
But,

329
00:13:04,514 --> 00:13:07,634
actually, it was, for us, it was quite

330
00:13:07,634 --> 00:13:08,134
immediate,

331
00:13:08,834 --> 00:13:12,115
that we identified that the plant has very

332
00:13:12,115 --> 00:13:14,034
large amounts of CBGA. And the way that

333
00:13:14,034 --> 00:13:15,254
we did it is using

334
00:13:16,434 --> 00:13:16,934
LCMS,

335
00:13:17,250 --> 00:13:17,750
a

336
00:13:18,210 --> 00:13:18,710
HPLC,

337
00:13:19,409 --> 00:13:21,750
which is connected to a mass spectrometer.

338
00:13:23,649 --> 00:13:24,129
It's,

339
00:13:24,529 --> 00:13:26,870
so it's a method it's an analytical chemistry

340
00:13:27,250 --> 00:13:30,389
method that allows us to take very complex

341
00:13:32,504 --> 00:13:33,004
samples

342
00:13:33,785 --> 00:13:36,205
and to be able to identify the specific

343
00:13:36,504 --> 00:13:37,805
compounds that are

344
00:13:38,264 --> 00:13:39,565
present in our samples.

345
00:13:41,065 --> 00:13:41,565
So

346
00:13:42,105 --> 00:13:43,805
this was the the basic

347
00:13:45,305 --> 00:13:48,179
method or instrument that we use for the

348
00:13:48,179 --> 00:13:48,679
identification,

349
00:13:49,940 --> 00:13:52,100
but we also use some other techniques. So

350
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:52,840
for example,

351
00:13:54,340 --> 00:13:56,179
we use the the fact that we were

352
00:13:56,179 --> 00:13:57,799
growing the plant. So we

353
00:13:58,899 --> 00:14:02,715
we use this feeding of isotopically labelled molecules.

354
00:14:02,715 --> 00:14:04,254
So these are molecules that

355
00:14:04,715 --> 00:14:05,774
have isotopic

356
00:14:06,235 --> 00:14:07,215
labelled specific

357
00:14:07,595 --> 00:14:08,575
carbons or

358
00:14:09,115 --> 00:14:09,615
hydrogens

359
00:14:10,075 --> 00:14:12,235
that are labelled in the molecule that are

360
00:14:12,235 --> 00:14:13,295
more that are

361
00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:14,840
heavier than,

362
00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:17,360
than the other atoms that are in the

363
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:17,860
molecule.

364
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:18,980
And then,

365
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,720
we dip leaves into solutions that contain these,

366
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,059
these molecules, these labelled molecules.

367
00:14:27,565 --> 00:14:29,824
And we basically feed the leaves,

368
00:14:30,365 --> 00:14:31,745
with the level of

369
00:14:32,125 --> 00:14:32,704
the compounds.

370
00:14:33,245 --> 00:14:35,504
And then following several days of feeding,

371
00:14:36,044 --> 00:14:39,004
we can see whether the plant uses these

372
00:14:39,004 --> 00:14:39,504
molecules.

373
00:14:40,169 --> 00:14:42,029
They incorporate them in the biosynthesis

374
00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:44,269
using LC MS. So basically,

375
00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:45,289
we can,

376
00:14:47,129 --> 00:14:47,870
test whether

377
00:14:48,889 --> 00:14:50,590
a specific molecule, a precursor,

378
00:14:51,610 --> 00:14:52,750
is taken by,

379
00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:55,924
the specific enzymes in the plant to produce

380
00:14:55,924 --> 00:14:56,664
the molecules,

381
00:14:57,365 --> 00:15:00,084
cannabinoids in in this instance. So so we

382
00:15:00,084 --> 00:15:02,424
also use this, feeding of isotopically

383
00:15:03,125 --> 00:15:05,704
labeled molecules. And using LC MS,

384
00:15:06,565 --> 00:15:09,360
we could, identify which of the molecules were

385
00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:10,500
labelled by

386
00:15:10,879 --> 00:15:11,379
a

387
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:12,740
specific,

388
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:14,980
specific atoms.

389
00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:18,639
We also purified specific molecules and then structure

390
00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:20,740
elucidated them using NMR.

391
00:15:21,695 --> 00:15:23,475
And we use a really cool technique,

392
00:15:24,495 --> 00:15:25,394
to do localization

393
00:15:25,774 --> 00:15:28,654
of molecules to find where these molecules are

394
00:15:28,654 --> 00:15:30,835
specifically localized in the tissues.

395
00:15:31,294 --> 00:15:32,034
It's a

396
00:15:32,414 --> 00:15:32,914
it's

397
00:15:33,294 --> 00:15:35,789
a method that is called multi imaging, mass

398
00:15:35,789 --> 00:15:38,529
spectrometry imaging, where we do mass spec.

399
00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:42,509
We acquire spectrum for each pixel in our

400
00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:43,889
sample. So we can

401
00:15:44,509 --> 00:15:45,490
show specifically

402
00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:49,154
what is the location, the localisation of specific

403
00:15:49,394 --> 00:15:51,634
cannabinoids or any other molecule that is in

404
00:15:51,634 --> 00:15:54,195
the sample. That's like what a helpful tool.

405
00:15:54,195 --> 00:15:55,894
I can I can imagine,

406
00:15:57,075 --> 00:15:59,735
the the cheer that went through the lab

407
00:16:00,115 --> 00:16:02,375
on the on the day that you

408
00:16:03,075 --> 00:16:04,295
found cannabinoids

409
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:07,029
in your first attempt, you know, there there's

410
00:16:07,029 --> 00:16:09,029
there are the, you know, these rumors and

411
00:16:09,029 --> 00:16:10,090
and perhaps CBGA

412
00:16:10,549 --> 00:16:13,190
and and and and suddenly your lab,

413
00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:16,470
you know, digs into it and suddenly, boom,

414
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:18,605
there they are? I can imagine that that

415
00:16:18,605 --> 00:16:19,985
was a huge

416
00:16:20,445 --> 00:16:22,465
encouragement for everybody on the team.

417
00:16:22,845 --> 00:16:24,304
Yes. You are correct.

418
00:16:25,884 --> 00:16:28,445
So so these cannabinoids that we're finding in

419
00:16:28,445 --> 00:16:31,004
the heli plant, are are these identical to

420
00:16:31,004 --> 00:16:33,679
those found in cannabis? I I I'm assuming

421
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,399
that they are the same molecule just occurring

422
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:38,100
in a different place. Is that accurate?

423
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,519
So some of them are similar and others

424
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:42,899
were different. So,

425
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,445
we found around 40 identified around 40 cannabinoids

426
00:16:48,384 --> 00:16:49,684
in the heli plant.

427
00:16:51,184 --> 00:16:53,125
No THC a, no CBDA.

428
00:16:53,664 --> 00:16:55,924
We found different types of CBGA,

429
00:16:56,784 --> 00:16:59,044
cannabinoids with different alkyl chains.

430
00:16:59,610 --> 00:17:01,470
We found small amounts of CBCA.

431
00:17:02,169 --> 00:17:02,669
And

432
00:17:03,370 --> 00:17:03,870
the,

433
00:17:05,369 --> 00:17:05,690
mass

434
00:17:06,170 --> 00:17:08,890
most of the other types of cannabinoids were

435
00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:11,609
completely new novel cannabinoids that are not present

436
00:17:11,609 --> 00:17:14,285
or have not been identified in cannabis. Oh

437
00:17:14,285 --> 00:17:15,585
my gosh. How exciting.

438
00:17:16,205 --> 00:17:18,125
Do do I I know I'm jumping ahead

439
00:17:18,125 --> 00:17:19,805
a little bit, but do we know if

440
00:17:19,805 --> 00:17:20,945
those new cannabinoids

441
00:17:21,484 --> 00:17:23,424
interact with the human endocannabinoid

442
00:17:23,884 --> 00:17:25,244
system yet, or are we is it too

443
00:17:25,244 --> 00:17:26,039
early to know?

444
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,880
So, unfortunately, we haven't tested them yet. I

445
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,960
think that this is one of the first

446
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:32,840
things that,

447
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:35,960
we would really, really like to do. I

448
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,180
bet. It's so exciting.

449
00:17:39,335 --> 00:17:39,835
But,

450
00:17:40,455 --> 00:17:43,195
we are pretty sure that, they also have,

451
00:17:43,654 --> 00:17:44,875
other, bioactivities,

452
00:17:45,654 --> 00:17:48,215
and they that they bind to different receptors.

453
00:17:48,215 --> 00:17:49,894
So in this paper by,

454
00:17:52,259 --> 00:17:53,240
professor, Tagliatelas

455
00:17:53,539 --> 00:17:55,480
Cafati and professor Giovannio Pandino,

456
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:58,740
they tested some of the molecules that they

457
00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:01,000
found in, the heli plant,

458
00:18:02,019 --> 00:18:02,759
for binding

459
00:18:03,059 --> 00:18:04,100
affinities to,

460
00:18:05,380 --> 00:18:07,080
TRP channels and to,

461
00:18:08,605 --> 00:18:11,085
CB one, CB two, and and some other

462
00:18:11,085 --> 00:18:12,704
ones. So even,

463
00:18:13,404 --> 00:18:15,964
some are more fruiting types cannabinoids that they

464
00:18:15,964 --> 00:18:18,785
found, the ones that have the aromatic moiety

465
00:18:19,085 --> 00:18:21,244
instead of the alkyl chain. Mhmm.

466
00:18:21,805 --> 00:18:23,220
Some of them also

467
00:18:24,179 --> 00:18:25,400
show the, potential.

468
00:18:26,659 --> 00:18:28,500
So we are pretty sure that this will

469
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:29,000
be,

470
00:18:31,539 --> 00:18:33,380
expanding the repertoire of,

471
00:18:34,179 --> 00:18:35,799
modulators of the endocannabinoid

472
00:18:36,179 --> 00:18:37,159
system. But,

473
00:18:37,484 --> 00:18:40,065
unfortunately, they still await testing.

474
00:18:40,365 --> 00:18:41,904
Sure. Sure. I understand.

475
00:18:43,085 --> 00:18:45,244
So I I assume that you are able

476
00:18:45,244 --> 00:18:47,184
to isolate these cannabinoids

477
00:18:47,565 --> 00:18:48,545
in the lab.

478
00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:50,509
As somebody

479
00:18:50,809 --> 00:18:51,869
who studies,

480
00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:54,269
plant medicine preparations

481
00:18:54,970 --> 00:18:55,869
in the home

482
00:18:56,250 --> 00:18:58,430
by citizen scientists, if you will,

483
00:19:00,330 --> 00:19:03,369
other than extracting the cannabinoids from the plant

484
00:19:03,369 --> 00:19:06,154
in the lab, can this plant be smoked

485
00:19:06,214 --> 00:19:08,394
whole as it is as well,

486
00:19:08,775 --> 00:19:10,474
or, are there other,

487
00:19:11,174 --> 00:19:13,835
chemicals in the plant that make it unattractive

488
00:19:14,134 --> 00:19:16,954
to be smoked in in other traditional ways?

489
00:19:17,015 --> 00:19:18,899
You mentioned, you know, some of the heli

490
00:19:18,899 --> 00:19:21,940
plants were were burnt into smudge pots and

491
00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:24,339
such traditionally, but I'm we I don't know

492
00:19:24,339 --> 00:19:25,720
about this particular plant.

493
00:19:27,869 --> 00:19:28,369
So

494
00:19:29,765 --> 00:19:31,144
I I don't know.

495
00:19:31,445 --> 00:19:32,505
I don't know if you,

496
00:19:33,205 --> 00:19:35,605
like, I I don't know exactly because we've

497
00:19:35,605 --> 00:19:36,825
never tested it.

498
00:19:38,164 --> 00:19:40,404
There is a since there is so little

499
00:19:40,404 --> 00:19:42,884
information about it, I would say that, first,

500
00:19:42,884 --> 00:19:44,069
someone needs to,

501
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:46,009
test the toxicity.

502
00:19:47,829 --> 00:19:49,589
We found that there that there is no

503
00:19:49,589 --> 00:19:50,089
mutagenicity.

504
00:19:51,269 --> 00:19:53,190
We found the paper that looked into the

505
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:53,690
mutagenicity

506
00:19:54,149 --> 00:19:56,649
and there is none for this extract. But

507
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:59,054
I I think that, it should be tested

508
00:19:59,054 --> 00:20:01,855
for safety before I can recommend people to

509
00:20:01,855 --> 00:20:03,154
start smoking it.

510
00:20:05,375 --> 00:20:07,454
Sure. And and even if you said that,

511
00:20:07,855 --> 00:20:10,335
we we would never recommend that anybody smoke

512
00:20:10,335 --> 00:20:12,335
it here. So I'm we we don't definitely

513
00:20:12,335 --> 00:20:13,799
don't recommend that. But,

514
00:20:14,319 --> 00:20:16,159
I figured if there was any reason that

515
00:20:16,159 --> 00:20:18,079
you were like, oh, yeah. Like like this

516
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:21,039
plant also has got a natural biotoxin in

517
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:22,639
it. I figured I'd wanna get that out

518
00:20:22,639 --> 00:20:23,700
right away. So

519
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:25,359
so,

520
00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:28,724
the plant doesn't have THC, so you would

521
00:20:28,724 --> 00:20:31,465
probably don't will not have the same effect

522
00:20:31,525 --> 00:20:32,505
as in cannabis.

523
00:20:32,965 --> 00:20:35,125
Sure. But the the, you know, the the

524
00:20:35,125 --> 00:20:35,785
the CBGA

525
00:20:36,164 --> 00:20:38,085
certainly got a lot of attention be because,

526
00:20:38,325 --> 00:20:40,410
so many people in The States have a

527
00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:41,549
hard time finding,

528
00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:43,070
CBG

529
00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:45,850
other than in isolate, which I reckon I

530
00:20:45,850 --> 00:20:48,590
recognize isolate is more popular for,

531
00:20:49,610 --> 00:20:52,330
you know, the the pharmaceutical pursuit. But,

532
00:20:53,095 --> 00:20:56,215
folks look for cannabis that is high in

533
00:20:56,215 --> 00:20:56,715
CBG

534
00:20:57,174 --> 00:20:59,414
at least here in The States for its,

535
00:20:59,414 --> 00:21:01,735
you know, for its other medicinal uses. And

536
00:21:01,735 --> 00:21:03,575
so that's that's the direction I was coming

537
00:21:03,575 --> 00:21:04,075
from.

538
00:21:04,775 --> 00:21:06,154
Does the plant have

539
00:21:07,414 --> 00:21:07,575
a

540
00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:09,630
how do I wanna say this?

541
00:21:10,490 --> 00:21:12,589
Are there a lot of cannabinoids

542
00:21:12,970 --> 00:21:15,369
in each plant? Like, the the potency, if

543
00:21:15,369 --> 00:21:17,529
you will, of each plant, is it very

544
00:21:17,529 --> 00:21:20,009
high or or is the is the amount

545
00:21:20,009 --> 00:21:20,384
of

546
00:21:21,184 --> 00:21:23,525
the volume of cannabinoids in the plant,

547
00:21:24,065 --> 00:21:25,365
lower where where,

548
00:21:26,305 --> 00:21:27,765
compared to, say, cannabis?

549
00:21:28,945 --> 00:21:30,484
So when we measured,

550
00:21:31,184 --> 00:21:33,684
concentrations, absolute concentrations of cannabinoids,

551
00:21:35,009 --> 00:21:37,170
we found that, the leaves that are the

552
00:21:37,170 --> 00:21:39,110
most abundant, as I mentioned before,

553
00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:40,369
it has,

554
00:21:40,850 --> 00:21:42,070
around 4%

555
00:21:42,450 --> 00:21:42,769
of,

556
00:21:43,330 --> 00:21:43,830
CBGA,

557
00:21:44,610 --> 00:21:47,730
per dry weight, which is a lot. Much

558
00:21:47,730 --> 00:21:49,430
more than you can find in most

559
00:21:50,265 --> 00:21:52,505
cannabis chemo virus that are not high CBG.

560
00:21:52,505 --> 00:21:54,184
So I know that now there are these

561
00:21:54,184 --> 00:21:54,924
high CBG,

562
00:21:56,265 --> 00:21:56,765
strains,

563
00:21:58,424 --> 00:22:01,005
that for sure have a much higher concentrations.

564
00:22:02,184 --> 00:22:03,164
But for CBGAs,

565
00:22:04,184 --> 00:22:05,164
quite a lot.

566
00:22:05,809 --> 00:22:08,049
Yeah. For sure. That's impressive. It's good. That's

567
00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:09,970
exactly what I was hoping to find out.

568
00:22:09,970 --> 00:22:11,430
That's a that's a good news source.

569
00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:13,670
So, you know,

570
00:22:14,369 --> 00:22:16,069
for cannabis and cannabinoid

571
00:22:16,529 --> 00:22:17,029
enthusiasts

572
00:22:17,654 --> 00:22:20,234
like we here at Shaping Fire, your discovery

573
00:22:20,295 --> 00:22:22,154
is very important and exciting.

574
00:22:23,174 --> 00:22:25,414
But I'm curious what the response was from

575
00:22:25,414 --> 00:22:26,394
the scientific

576
00:22:26,695 --> 00:22:27,195
community

577
00:22:27,734 --> 00:22:28,634
and separately

578
00:22:28,934 --> 00:22:29,755
the pharmaceutical

579
00:22:30,215 --> 00:22:31,994
product community to your research.

580
00:22:33,289 --> 00:22:33,690
You know,

581
00:22:34,409 --> 00:22:37,149
we want to hear that you were celebrated

582
00:22:37,450 --> 00:22:39,450
and you have attracted all of this new

583
00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:42,490
research grants and and and that and that,

584
00:22:42,490 --> 00:22:44,490
you know, this plant has become a celebrity,

585
00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:46,009
but that's not always the case. And I

586
00:22:46,009 --> 00:22:47,865
and I don't know the answer. So so

587
00:22:47,865 --> 00:22:49,964
what was the response from the science community

588
00:22:50,265 --> 00:22:52,924
and the and the pharmaceutical community?

589
00:22:54,265 --> 00:22:56,204
So, actually, the responses were,

590
00:22:56,585 --> 00:22:57,085
very

591
00:22:57,464 --> 00:22:57,964
enthusiastic.

592
00:22:58,424 --> 00:23:00,525
Good. We got very amazing responses.

593
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,059
I think that the the,

594
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,680
biggest achievements that we made, the biggest advance

595
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,420
advancements,

596
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,900
to the field in this, study,

597
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:13,619
was first of all, the very comprehensive,

598
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,700
chemistry that we,

599
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:17,539
elucidated.

600
00:23:18,535 --> 00:23:20,695
The fact that we provided another genome and

601
00:23:20,695 --> 00:23:23,195
transcriptome of a plant that produces cannabinoids.

602
00:23:24,695 --> 00:23:26,555
The enzymes that we identified,

603
00:23:27,815 --> 00:23:31,255
that you can use in heterologous systems to

604
00:23:31,255 --> 00:23:33,595
produce cannabinoids outside of the plant,

605
00:23:34,619 --> 00:23:35,119
which

606
00:23:35,420 --> 00:23:35,580
by,

607
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:38,619
until this point were only known from,

608
00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:41,920
cannabis. And now we contributed to new enzymes

609
00:23:41,980 --> 00:23:42,380
that,

610
00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:44,240
can contribute

611
00:23:44,539 --> 00:23:46,160
both to the to,

612
00:23:47,580 --> 00:23:48,080
the

613
00:23:48,715 --> 00:23:51,515
the same types of cannabinoids but also to

614
00:23:51,515 --> 00:23:52,015
produce

615
00:23:52,394 --> 00:23:53,855
new types of, cannabinoids,

616
00:23:56,075 --> 00:23:58,875
that were have never been tested or are

617
00:23:58,875 --> 00:23:59,615
not known,

618
00:24:00,555 --> 00:24:02,735
including new to natural types of cannabinoids.

619
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:06,330
Also, it was very,

620
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:10,710
the fact that we shed light,

621
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:11,690
to the

622
00:24:12,869 --> 00:24:15,589
evolution or we suggest about the evolution of

623
00:24:15,589 --> 00:24:18,845
the biosynthetic pathway of, cannabinoids to have another

624
00:24:18,845 --> 00:24:21,424
plant that produces the same types of molecules

625
00:24:21,884 --> 00:24:23,184
as plant scientists,

626
00:24:24,205 --> 00:24:26,365
it was very excited. And we got really

627
00:24:26,365 --> 00:24:27,105
good responses.

628
00:24:28,684 --> 00:24:31,005
We think that, and we heard that it

629
00:24:31,005 --> 00:24:31,505
opens,

630
00:24:31,965 --> 00:24:33,690
new frontiers or avenues

631
00:24:36,089 --> 00:24:37,629
for, new as new modulators,

632
00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:39,950
new molecules that can modulate the endocannabinoid

633
00:24:40,409 --> 00:24:40,909
system.

634
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:44,089
And I believe that it has a whole

635
00:24:44,089 --> 00:24:45,549
new type of entourage

636
00:24:45,944 --> 00:24:46,444
effect.

637
00:24:47,464 --> 00:24:48,684
Great. This is great.

638
00:24:49,304 --> 00:24:51,384
So we've mentioned the fact that the plant

639
00:24:51,384 --> 00:24:51,884
produces,

640
00:24:52,345 --> 00:24:54,524
cannabinoids, but besides cannabinoids,

641
00:24:55,065 --> 00:24:57,005
there are also other types

642
00:24:57,464 --> 00:24:59,164
of mero terpenoids or terpenophenols

643
00:24:59,625 --> 00:25:02,740
that are also produced in very high quantities

644
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:04,500
along with the

645
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,660
the cannabinoids. And,

646
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,900
these also have,

647
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,539
some of them have already bioactivities

648
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:12,820
that are known,

649
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,180
other ones that

650
00:25:15,625 --> 00:25:17,964
we elucidated which are completely new.

651
00:25:19,464 --> 00:25:21,325
So I think that overall,

652
00:25:22,184 --> 00:25:25,305
this was very exciting and the response from,

653
00:25:26,984 --> 00:25:27,724
all around

654
00:25:28,424 --> 00:25:31,549
was very excellent. Very exciting, very encouraging. Oh,

655
00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:32,289
well, congratulations.

656
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,830
And and and I know that, you know,

657
00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:36,830
this is a pretty obscure topic for a

658
00:25:36,830 --> 00:25:38,509
lot of people. I'm sure that when you

659
00:25:38,509 --> 00:25:40,670
go to, you know, a cocktail party or

660
00:25:40,670 --> 00:25:42,835
something, this is lost on a lot of

661
00:25:42,835 --> 00:25:46,115
people. But talking with us, we we're we

662
00:25:46,115 --> 00:25:49,075
are your supporters. We're we're your fan base.

663
00:25:49,075 --> 00:25:50,914
And and I and and, you know, for

664
00:25:50,914 --> 00:25:52,914
us, this feels like, you know, a high

665
00:25:52,914 --> 00:25:55,734
five big celebration. There's so much new potential,

666
00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:59,409
you know, healing potential and science potential and

667
00:25:59,470 --> 00:26:00,129
an entourage,

668
00:26:00,990 --> 00:26:01,730
effect potential.

669
00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:04,269
I mean, there's there are lifetimes of research

670
00:26:04,269 --> 00:26:06,829
here. So so we're we're all excited with

671
00:26:06,829 --> 00:26:08,289
you. So, yeah, congratulations.

672
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:12,434
So so this plant does does finding this

673
00:26:12,434 --> 00:26:15,494
plant suggest that there might be other plants,

674
00:26:16,195 --> 00:26:16,695
within

675
00:26:17,394 --> 00:26:18,855
the the heli

676
00:26:21,795 --> 00:26:23,154
family isn't accurate, but,

677
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:24,740
a genus

678
00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:25,440
that,

679
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,859
that might also be providing,

680
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:32,079
cannabinoids? Or do we feel like we we

681
00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:34,740
found the one within the genus?

682
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:37,460
So

683
00:26:38,674 --> 00:26:40,775
as a plant scientist, I think,

684
00:26:41,394 --> 00:26:41,894
that

685
00:26:42,275 --> 00:26:44,054
or I expect that there are

686
00:26:45,315 --> 00:26:46,855
hidden treasures that

687
00:26:47,315 --> 00:26:48,054
we haven't

688
00:26:48,914 --> 00:26:49,414
elucidated

689
00:26:49,795 --> 00:26:51,974
yet. I think that nature is amazing

690
00:26:52,355 --> 00:26:52,855
and,

691
00:26:53,579 --> 00:26:56,700
it's the their diversity is so large that

692
00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:58,779
we there are still so many plants that

693
00:26:58,779 --> 00:26:59,279
remain,

694
00:26:59,740 --> 00:27:00,240
unexplored.

695
00:27:01,339 --> 00:27:02,859
I would like to also mention that there

696
00:27:02,859 --> 00:27:05,900
are also other plants that produce cannabinoids or

697
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:08,160
cannabinoid like molecules. There is a

698
00:27:08,884 --> 00:27:09,384
rhododendron

699
00:27:10,085 --> 00:27:10,585
dauricum,

700
00:27:11,684 --> 00:27:13,625
a plant it's not a helichrysum

701
00:27:14,085 --> 00:27:15,684
genus. It's a different plant, but,

702
00:27:16,244 --> 00:27:19,544
it produces the cannabinoids. I mean, it's also

703
00:27:19,605 --> 00:27:22,710
alkyl types cannabinoids, but they are quite different.

704
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:23,450
They are

705
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:25,210
CBCA

706
00:27:25,509 --> 00:27:26,009
type,

707
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:26,970
cannabinoids,

708
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:30,410
but also produces them in very large amounts.

709
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:32,650
Also some other,

710
00:27:33,910 --> 00:27:35,289
cannabinoid like molecules,

711
00:27:36,309 --> 00:27:37,529
that are called amorphrutines.

712
00:27:39,404 --> 00:27:42,125
So I am if if these have all

713
00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:44,284
been identified, I am pretty sure that we

714
00:27:44,284 --> 00:27:47,184
will hear also about some other,

715
00:27:47,884 --> 00:27:48,544
new plants.

716
00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:51,069
Fantastic. We're gonna take a short break and

717
00:27:51,069 --> 00:27:52,990
be right back. You are listening to Shaping

718
00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:55,569
Fire, and my guest today is plant biochemist,

719
00:27:55,869 --> 00:27:57,009
doctor Paula Berman.

720
00:27:59,710 --> 00:28:02,414
Fish poop brand fertilizer is an all natural

721
00:28:02,494 --> 00:28:03,394
OMRI certified

722
00:28:03,695 --> 00:28:06,195
fish poop concentrate with nothing added.

723
00:28:06,654 --> 00:28:08,355
Real fish poop is extraordinarily

724
00:28:08,894 --> 00:28:09,394
complex.

725
00:28:09,934 --> 00:28:12,335
Not only are you adding the nitrogen, phosphorus,

726
00:28:12,335 --> 00:28:14,835
and potassium your plants need to build mass,

727
00:28:14,894 --> 00:28:17,315
transport nutrients, and enhance flavor,

728
00:28:17,659 --> 00:28:20,400
but fish waste is also packed with probiotics

729
00:28:20,539 --> 00:28:21,279
and micronutrients.

730
00:28:22,539 --> 00:28:24,880
When you add fish poop to your irrigation

731
00:28:25,019 --> 00:28:27,819
water, you are adding fertilizer in a form

732
00:28:27,819 --> 00:28:30,619
that strengthens the soil food web in your

733
00:28:30,619 --> 00:28:31,119
garden.

734
00:28:32,184 --> 00:28:34,904
Because plants are limited by the absence of

735
00:28:34,904 --> 00:28:36,365
any essential micronutrient,

736
00:28:37,305 --> 00:28:40,105
these trace nutrients are the difference between having

737
00:28:40,105 --> 00:28:42,505
a decent garden and having a garden that

738
00:28:42,505 --> 00:28:44,684
makes you feel really proud of your efforts.

739
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,559
Fish poop is a naturally complete solution that

740
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:51,059
fills in the cracks in your fertilizer program

741
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,359
to ensure that you offer your garden a

742
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:54,740
broad base of nutrients.

743
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:58,099
Not all fish poop is created equally.

744
00:28:58,515 --> 00:29:01,315
Most products with added fish waste don't reveal

745
00:29:01,315 --> 00:29:03,095
their sources or lab results.

746
00:29:03,875 --> 00:29:05,894
Fish poop brand Fish poop, however,

747
00:29:06,275 --> 00:29:08,934
generates their own fish waste as a byproduct

748
00:29:08,994 --> 00:29:10,535
of their organic aquaponics

749
00:29:10,835 --> 00:29:13,650
cannabis farm where they raise ornamental koi and

750
00:29:13,650 --> 00:29:14,150
tilapia.

751
00:29:15,009 --> 00:29:17,329
You are even invited to tour their farm

752
00:29:17,329 --> 00:29:19,650
in person or on their YouTube channel to

753
00:29:19,650 --> 00:29:20,470
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754
00:29:21,169 --> 00:29:23,730
This sort of transparency is wildly rare in

755
00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:26,955
the fertilizer market. The folks behind fish poop

756
00:29:26,955 --> 00:29:30,315
are also lifelong medical cannabis producers who have

757
00:29:30,315 --> 00:29:31,855
deep connections in the community,

758
00:29:32,234 --> 00:29:34,955
donate more product than they sell, and support

759
00:29:34,955 --> 00:29:38,894
cannabis prisoners, veteran, and patient collectives and charities.

760
00:29:39,779 --> 00:29:42,200
To get your bottle of Pure Fish Poop,

761
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:44,440
go to fishpoop.com

762
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:47,380
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763
00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:48,680
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764
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:51,160
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765
00:29:51,220 --> 00:29:54,734
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766
00:29:55,214 --> 00:29:57,714
That's fish poop brand fish poop.

767
00:30:00,174 --> 00:30:02,095
You've heard me talk about the award winning

768
00:30:02,095 --> 00:30:04,414
cannabis seeds that come from the analytical breeding

769
00:30:04,414 --> 00:30:06,974
program of Seth and Eric Crawford who founded

770
00:30:06,974 --> 00:30:10,000
Oregon CBD Seeds. In fact, Seth was a

771
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,259
guest on Shaping Fire in 2020

772
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,099
to talk about triploid genetics.

773
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,539
Seth and Eric are now releasing high THC

774
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,480
seeds for homegrowers and farms as Grow The

775
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:20,980
Revolution

776
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,180
seeds at gtrseeds.com.

777
00:30:24,835 --> 00:30:27,255
Their high THC seeds are extraordinary

778
00:30:27,714 --> 00:30:29,794
in that they will start to flower at

779
00:30:29,794 --> 00:30:32,274
sixteen and a half hours of daylight instead

780
00:30:32,274 --> 00:30:34,274
of the typical fourteen and a half hours

781
00:30:34,274 --> 00:30:34,934
of daylight.

782
00:30:35,315 --> 00:30:36,934
That means in most regions,

783
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:39,509
your plants will start to flower outdoors in

784
00:30:39,509 --> 00:30:40,650
the July

785
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:42,650
instead of the August,

786
00:30:42,869 --> 00:30:45,849
which means these photoperiod plants finish in September

787
00:30:46,150 --> 00:30:47,210
and not October,

788
00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:50,329
totally upending the photoperiod seed market.

789
00:30:51,005 --> 00:30:53,744
Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering

790
00:30:53,804 --> 00:30:56,044
CBG line and bred it to some of

791
00:30:56,044 --> 00:30:59,505
the most desired verified genetics out there, including

792
00:30:59,644 --> 00:31:00,144
sourdiesel,

793
00:31:00,444 --> 00:31:04,109
triangle cush, wedding cake, chemdogs, Skittles and others.

794
00:31:04,589 --> 00:31:08,289
These crosses all express powerful photoperiod terpene profiles

795
00:31:08,349 --> 00:31:09,089
and THC,

796
00:31:09,549 --> 00:31:10,929
giving you a great high.

797
00:31:11,549 --> 00:31:13,970
GTR Seeds has a new THCV

798
00:31:14,269 --> 00:31:17,089
line with plants like Double Durban and Gigantor

799
00:31:17,524 --> 00:31:20,505
that boast one to one THC to THCV.

800
00:31:21,125 --> 00:31:22,744
And people want that THCV.

801
00:31:24,005 --> 00:31:26,105
GTR seeds are very consistent,

802
00:31:26,565 --> 00:31:29,704
true growing inbred f ones from stabilized

803
00:31:30,005 --> 00:31:31,384
inbred parent lines.

804
00:31:31,769 --> 00:31:33,789
These seeds are nearly homogeneous

805
00:31:34,090 --> 00:31:36,269
and the plants should all grow the same.

806
00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:39,309
There is only one phenotype in every pack,

807
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:41,390
available as diploids and triploids.

808
00:31:42,170 --> 00:31:44,625
Seth and Eric's company is still family owned,

809
00:31:44,785 --> 00:31:47,505
patient and employee centric, and partially powered by

810
00:31:47,505 --> 00:31:49,285
their two acres of solar panels.

811
00:31:49,904 --> 00:31:52,224
Everyone can purchase these seeds and the entire

812
00:31:52,224 --> 00:31:57,180
catalog of Oregon CBD seeds at gtrseeds.com.

813
00:31:57,340 --> 00:31:59,180
Go to gtrseeds.com

814
00:31:59,180 --> 00:32:02,140
today and choose something revolutionary for your next

815
00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:03,680
indoor or outdoor run.

816
00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:08,460
One of the challenges with buying autoflower seeds

817
00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:10,299
is that often you'll have as many different

818
00:32:10,299 --> 00:32:12,220
phenos as you will have seeds in a

819
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:15,164
pack. That can be fun sure, but so

820
00:32:15,164 --> 00:32:17,404
many varieties in one pack is a sign

821
00:32:17,404 --> 00:32:19,565
of an immature seed line that hasn't been

822
00:32:19,565 --> 00:32:20,305
worked enough.

823
00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:23,325
I prefer my autoflowers to be worked enough

824
00:32:23,325 --> 00:32:25,565
that each pheno in the pack really captures

825
00:32:25,565 --> 00:32:27,424
the aspects that the breeder was intending.

826
00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:29,809
This is why I recommend

827
00:32:30,109 --> 00:32:32,430
Gnome automatics to my friends and listeners who

828
00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:34,609
grow automatic flowering cannabis seeds.

829
00:32:35,390 --> 00:32:37,789
Gnome automatic seeds are not just crossed and

830
00:32:37,789 --> 00:32:39,490
released. They are painstakingly

831
00:32:39,869 --> 00:32:41,250
sifted again and again,

832
00:32:41,565 --> 00:32:43,964
tested in a wide range of conditions, and

833
00:32:43,964 --> 00:32:46,125
taken to a level of maturity that each

834
00:32:46,125 --> 00:32:48,304
plant will be recognizable by its traits.

835
00:32:49,085 --> 00:32:51,164
Traits that were hard earned so that you

836
00:32:51,164 --> 00:32:53,264
can have your best growth cycle ever.

837
00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:57,080
Over the last ten years, Gnome Automatics founder

838
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Dan Jimmy has become a trusted breeder and

839
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,640
he continues to pour his passion of breeding

840
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,519
cannabis into every variety he releases for you

841
00:33:04,519 --> 00:33:05,099
to grow.

842
00:33:05,984 --> 00:33:08,164
Check out the Gnome Automatics Instagram

843
00:33:08,625 --> 00:33:10,005
at gnome underscore

844
00:33:10,305 --> 00:33:13,025
automatics to see the impressive plants folks are

845
00:33:13,025 --> 00:33:13,525
growing.

846
00:33:14,305 --> 00:33:17,045
You can score Gnome Automatic seeds in feminized

847
00:33:17,184 --> 00:33:19,710
or regular at your favorite seed provider listed

848
00:33:19,710 --> 00:33:21,570
in the vendor section of their website.

849
00:33:22,430 --> 00:33:25,070
Commercial cannabis farms across the country love growing

850
00:33:25,070 --> 00:33:25,890
gnome automatics

851
00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:27,410
because of their consistency

852
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:28,930
from seed to seed,

853
00:33:29,309 --> 00:33:31,970
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854
00:33:32,315 --> 00:33:33,934
and colorful bag appeal.

855
00:33:34,394 --> 00:33:36,554
Farms interested in bulk seeds of more than

856
00:33:36,554 --> 00:33:40,575
a thousand should reach out through gnomeautomatics.com.

857
00:33:41,515 --> 00:33:43,275
While on the website, be sure to check

858
00:33:43,275 --> 00:33:45,755
out the gnome automatics shirts and other merch

859
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860
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,940
If you want reliable seeds,

861
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,539
hand built from effort, expert selection, and experience,

862
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,700
choose Gnome Automatics.

863
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:58,279
Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire,

864
00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:00,695
and I am your host, Shango Los. And

865
00:34:00,695 --> 00:34:03,815
my guest today is plant biochemist, doctor Paula

866
00:34:03,815 --> 00:34:04,315
Berman.

867
00:34:04,775 --> 00:34:06,775
So doctor Berman, in the first set, we

868
00:34:06,775 --> 00:34:07,894
talked a lot about,

869
00:34:08,215 --> 00:34:11,175
the heli plant and where it lives and

870
00:34:11,175 --> 00:34:13,034
and how it expresses itself.

871
00:34:13,619 --> 00:34:14,980
I would like to talk a little bit

872
00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:18,119
more generally about cannabinoids. We've certainly done plenty

873
00:34:18,179 --> 00:34:20,900
of episodes of shaping fire on cannabinoids for

874
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:21,639
folks who

875
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:24,339
really wanna get into them. But for for

876
00:34:24,339 --> 00:34:26,039
folks that this is their,

877
00:34:26,659 --> 00:34:27,719
you know, early,

878
00:34:28,445 --> 00:34:31,565
understanding of cannabinoids, would you explain why plants

879
00:34:31,565 --> 00:34:34,045
produce cannabinoids or or why we think that

880
00:34:34,045 --> 00:34:35,264
they produce cannabinoids?

881
00:34:36,925 --> 00:34:39,324
Okay. So first of all, I would like

882
00:34:39,324 --> 00:34:39,900
to say that,

883
00:34:40,859 --> 00:34:41,920
why are

884
00:34:43,019 --> 00:34:45,099
the type of question that is the hardest

885
00:34:45,099 --> 00:34:46,319
to answer in biology.

886
00:34:48,539 --> 00:34:49,039
And

887
00:34:49,659 --> 00:34:51,900
let's talk a bit about any type of

888
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:53,519
specialized metabolites. So

889
00:34:53,875 --> 00:34:56,454
plants produce specialized metabolites. So cannabinoids

890
00:34:56,994 --> 00:34:59,315
are type of specialized metabolites. These are small

891
00:34:59,315 --> 00:34:59,815
molecules,

892
00:35:00,594 --> 00:35:01,655
secondary metabolites.

893
00:35:02,434 --> 00:35:05,735
Unlike primary metabolites, these are molecules that

894
00:35:06,659 --> 00:35:07,319
the plant

895
00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:09,940
doesn't have to have them to survive but

896
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:10,920
it helps them

897
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:12,679
flourish in their environment.

898
00:35:13,059 --> 00:35:15,400
So these are molecules that the plant produces.

899
00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:18,119
They can be very, very different between plants

900
00:35:18,179 --> 00:35:19,400
from different families,

901
00:35:19,934 --> 00:35:22,434
even from the same family, from different genuses.

902
00:35:22,494 --> 00:35:25,535
They can be they can have completely different

903
00:35:25,535 --> 00:35:27,074
types of, molecules.

904
00:35:27,454 --> 00:35:29,855
And the reason that a plant produces a

905
00:35:29,855 --> 00:35:31,954
specific type of molecule is because,

906
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,059
it helps them

907
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:37,820
flourish. So for example, it gives them

908
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:39,099
protection

909
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,300
to cope with different types of stresses like

910
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:45,099
for

911
00:35:47,424 --> 00:35:50,864
fighting with, herbivores or pathogens that come to

912
00:35:50,864 --> 00:35:51,605
try to,

913
00:35:52,944 --> 00:35:54,005
damage the plant.

914
00:35:54,464 --> 00:35:57,684
They provide protection from abiotic stresses like,

915
00:35:58,545 --> 00:35:59,364
UV radiation.

916
00:36:00,224 --> 00:36:01,204
They have antioxidant

917
00:36:02,464 --> 00:36:02,964
effects.

918
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,619
And they also attract

919
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,500
different types of pollinators or seed dispersers. So

920
00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:12,539
basically,

921
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,320
it is not known for sure what is

922
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:15,820
the

923
00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:18,755
actual role of a cannabinoids in the plant.

924
00:36:18,755 --> 00:36:20,914
It's believed that it's possibly one of these

925
00:36:20,914 --> 00:36:22,135
that I mentioned now.

926
00:36:25,315 --> 00:36:28,775
But, for sure, it the plant produces cannabinoids.

927
00:36:28,835 --> 00:36:31,440
It invests a lot of energy to produce

928
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,179
these cannabinoids,

929
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,119
because it gives them some kind of an

930
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:35,619
evolutionary,

931
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:37,619
advantage.

932
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,380
That makes sense.

933
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:40,739
Does this discovery

934
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:44,500
change or evolve our understanding of the evolution

935
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:45,219
of cannabinoids?

936
00:36:46,414 --> 00:36:47,875
I can imagine that,

937
00:36:48,655 --> 00:36:51,934
like, while while we were surprised and excited

938
00:36:51,934 --> 00:36:53,795
to find cannabinoids in this plant,

939
00:36:54,094 --> 00:36:56,335
there may be other plants that are also

940
00:36:56,335 --> 00:36:58,289
expressing in similar ways. But

941
00:36:58,769 --> 00:37:01,890
but have us have we finding cannabinoids in

942
00:37:01,890 --> 00:37:02,710
this plant,

943
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:05,809
you know, kind of changed our understanding of

944
00:37:05,809 --> 00:37:06,309
cannabinoids?

945
00:37:07,809 --> 00:37:10,150
So I think it it for sure helps

946
00:37:10,289 --> 00:37:12,224
the trying to answer

947
00:37:15,985 --> 00:37:16,485
cannabinoid.

948
00:37:17,585 --> 00:37:19,684
But we are not there yet. Mhmm.

949
00:37:20,385 --> 00:37:22,005
We have several suggestions

950
00:37:22,305 --> 00:37:24,724
of how or what might have happened,

951
00:37:27,179 --> 00:37:28,880
or, how did the evolution,

952
00:37:30,059 --> 00:37:32,960
encourage the plant to or push the plant,

953
00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:36,239
to start producing these types of molecules. So,

954
00:37:36,699 --> 00:37:40,144
the the basis comes from the from from

955
00:37:40,144 --> 00:37:42,224
the enzymes, from the biology of the plant.

956
00:37:42,224 --> 00:37:44,724
So a plant will not start to produce

957
00:37:45,425 --> 00:37:45,925
molecules

958
00:37:48,945 --> 00:37:50,864
that are very very different. It will not

959
00:37:50,864 --> 00:37:52,324
make up an enzyme.

960
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:54,809
It's probably

961
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:57,670
an enzyme that is already there, a type

962
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:59,989
of protein that was already in the plant

963
00:37:59,989 --> 00:38:01,369
that will mutate

964
00:38:01,989 --> 00:38:04,949
slowly until it makes some change that the

965
00:38:04,949 --> 00:38:05,449
plant

966
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:06,730
feels that

967
00:38:07,194 --> 00:38:10,394
is advantageous, and then this is maintained for

968
00:38:10,394 --> 00:38:11,295
next generations.

969
00:38:11,914 --> 00:38:13,034
So we believe that,

970
00:38:13,835 --> 00:38:17,135
by looking into other members of the families

971
00:38:17,275 --> 00:38:19,214
from other types of lycrosomes,

972
00:38:19,594 --> 00:38:20,815
other types of,

973
00:38:21,489 --> 00:38:24,369
plants from the astrosea family, because lycrysome is

974
00:38:24,369 --> 00:38:25,110
a astrosea

975
00:38:25,730 --> 00:38:26,230
plant,

976
00:38:26,530 --> 00:38:29,349
which is very distant than

977
00:38:31,170 --> 00:38:32,550
cannabis, which is

978
00:38:33,410 --> 00:38:33,989
a cannabis

979
00:38:34,289 --> 00:38:34,789
plant.

980
00:38:35,855 --> 00:38:37,074
And by looking into,

981
00:38:37,614 --> 00:38:38,114
other,

982
00:38:38,894 --> 00:38:41,775
family members that don't produce cannabinoids, but when

983
00:38:41,775 --> 00:38:44,574
we are looking into what other chemicals they

984
00:38:44,574 --> 00:38:45,234
do produce,

985
00:38:45,855 --> 00:38:48,914
we found some, commonalities. So for example,

986
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:52,920
we think that in order for a plant

987
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:53,980
to produce cannabinoids,

988
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:57,019
it will start by having probably,

989
00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:01,559
a natural activating enzyme that will use fatty

990
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:02,059
acids,

991
00:39:03,159 --> 00:39:03,820
to produce

992
00:39:04,605 --> 00:39:06,684
this alkyl chain that we have,

993
00:39:07,085 --> 00:39:08,065
for cannabinoids,

994
00:39:08,605 --> 00:39:11,425
or that is also found, for fluoro glucanoids,

995
00:39:11,565 --> 00:39:13,744
which are also found in hops, for example.

996
00:39:14,125 --> 00:39:16,445
And we will have a polyketide synthase that,

997
00:39:18,284 --> 00:39:19,405
will do the

998
00:39:20,660 --> 00:39:23,380
will probably do a specific type of of

999
00:39:23,380 --> 00:39:24,840
cyclisation, for example,

1000
00:39:25,619 --> 00:39:28,500
for making fluoro glucinoids or chalcans, which are

1001
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:28,980
more,

1002
00:39:29,619 --> 00:39:30,119
available

1003
00:39:30,420 --> 00:39:32,039
in nature. And this will

1004
00:39:32,594 --> 00:39:33,094
possibly

1005
00:39:33,715 --> 00:39:34,855
mutate into,

1006
00:39:35,394 --> 00:39:36,855
making the backbones,

1007
00:39:37,394 --> 00:39:40,614
the chemical structure for the cannabinoids or the,

1008
00:39:41,074 --> 00:39:43,655
amorphousine types of, cannabinoids. So,

1009
00:39:45,090 --> 00:39:46,930
they will start to do a different type

1010
00:39:46,930 --> 00:39:49,730
of cyclization, which we see in, both these

1011
00:39:49,730 --> 00:39:51,970
plants. And then we also have a preneal

1012
00:39:51,970 --> 00:39:53,110
transferase that

1013
00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:55,650
we found in our study that was very,

1014
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:58,610
specific that they would work only on the

1015
00:39:58,610 --> 00:40:00,550
types of molecules that have this,

1016
00:40:01,355 --> 00:40:02,655
it's a resorcinolic

1017
00:40:03,275 --> 00:40:03,775
backbone,

1018
00:40:05,434 --> 00:40:06,894
which is found in carabinoids

1019
00:40:07,355 --> 00:40:09,674
versus the one from fluoro glucinoids or the

1020
00:40:09,674 --> 00:40:10,974
other types of compounds.

1021
00:40:11,514 --> 00:40:13,835
So we think that we have some clues

1022
00:40:13,835 --> 00:40:17,260
about what types of plants would also perhaps,

1023
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,920
produce or can be good candidates to produce

1024
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:21,420
cannabinoids.

1025
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,480
But, of course, there are also a lot

1026
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,980
of questions that, we didn't look at,

1027
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,385
still that have to do with, for example,

1028
00:40:29,445 --> 00:40:29,945
localization

1029
00:40:30,244 --> 00:40:30,565
of,

1030
00:40:31,204 --> 00:40:32,425
enzymes, transport,

1031
00:40:32,724 --> 00:40:33,224
toxicity,

1032
00:40:34,644 --> 00:40:36,885
availability of intermediates for the,

1033
00:40:37,765 --> 00:40:39,625
for this pathway to evolve.

1034
00:40:42,679 --> 00:40:45,099
That that is so exciting. You know, listening

1035
00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:46,299
to your answer,

1036
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,579
there are so many different opportunities

1037
00:40:50,279 --> 00:40:50,779
for

1038
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,579
medical research, for botanical research, for for healing

1039
00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:56,139
opportunities

1040
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:59,045
in so many of the different,

1041
00:41:01,264 --> 00:41:03,425
I don't know, research opportunities that you just

1042
00:41:03,425 --> 00:41:05,984
went through. I mean, as as somebody who

1043
00:41:05,984 --> 00:41:07,125
has studied the endocannabinoid

1044
00:41:07,505 --> 00:41:09,684
system, it's it is just

1045
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,539
so wildly exciting to have another

1046
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:14,980
way in

1047
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,840
to start to compare and contrast to with

1048
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,000
the other plants that we've already that we're

1049
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,559
already familiar with. And and this is before

1050
00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:24,579
you add all of the additional

1051
00:41:26,585 --> 00:41:29,625
other terpenes and other aromatic compounds that are

1052
00:41:29,625 --> 00:41:31,804
also interacting with all these cannabinoids

1053
00:41:32,344 --> 00:41:34,284
to create new ways. Oh,

1054
00:41:34,585 --> 00:41:35,085
fantastic.

1055
00:41:36,744 --> 00:41:39,704
So so the plant itself, is is it

1056
00:41:39,704 --> 00:41:41,940
hard to grow the heli plant or is

1057
00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:42,840
it pretty easy?

1058
00:41:44,420 --> 00:41:47,460
So we started growing it from seeds and

1059
00:41:47,460 --> 00:41:50,679
actually, it wasn't that easy to germinate

1060
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:52,039
the the seeds.

1061
00:41:54,795 --> 00:41:57,934
But since once we we managed to germinate

1062
00:41:57,994 --> 00:41:59,054
we propagated

1063
00:41:59,755 --> 00:42:00,574
using cuttings,

1064
00:42:01,355 --> 00:42:01,994
and these,

1065
00:42:02,795 --> 00:42:03,855
grow very well.

1066
00:42:04,554 --> 00:42:05,054
Unfortunately,

1067
00:42:05,594 --> 00:42:07,614
up to this point we haven't

1068
00:42:08,635 --> 00:42:09,775
been able to

1069
00:42:10,779 --> 00:42:14,000
produce seeds out of the plants, our mature

1070
00:42:14,219 --> 00:42:16,779
plants. I mean, they produce seeds, but they

1071
00:42:16,779 --> 00:42:19,099
don't germinate. So Interesting. Up until now, we've

1072
00:42:19,099 --> 00:42:20,380
only propagated them,

1073
00:42:20,940 --> 00:42:21,760
via cuttings.

1074
00:42:22,655 --> 00:42:24,974
Oh, that's interesting. So that's a whole But

1075
00:42:24,974 --> 00:42:27,054
it it grows very well. We grow them

1076
00:42:27,054 --> 00:42:28,034
in a greenhouse,

1077
00:42:28,414 --> 00:42:28,914
and

1078
00:42:30,335 --> 00:42:30,994
they flourish.

1079
00:42:31,775 --> 00:42:34,355
Even though that even though you're not producing

1080
00:42:35,820 --> 00:42:38,860
viable seeds yet, is the plant itself and

1081
00:42:38,860 --> 00:42:40,460
seeds for it very easy to get in

1082
00:42:40,460 --> 00:42:42,219
South Africa, or is it a rare plant

1083
00:42:42,219 --> 00:42:42,719
there?

1084
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:45,340
I think that in South Africa, it it

1085
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:46,239
grows wild,

1086
00:42:46,619 --> 00:42:47,360
in nature.

1087
00:42:49,255 --> 00:42:51,214
I I don't think that it's very easy

1088
00:42:51,214 --> 00:42:51,875
to get,

1089
00:42:53,214 --> 00:42:53,714
seeds.

1090
00:42:55,534 --> 00:42:57,934
But, yeah, but the the plant, I I

1091
00:42:58,094 --> 00:43:00,094
it's it's a plant that grows wild when

1092
00:43:00,094 --> 00:43:00,594
you,

1093
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,320
from what I understood, I've never been there.

1094
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,220
But when you,

1095
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:06,780
walk around, you can see,

1096
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:09,559
these plants everywhere. Very good.

1097
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,700
So in the lab,

1098
00:43:14,804 --> 00:43:17,764
I'm curious to know what extraction methods you

1099
00:43:17,764 --> 00:43:20,344
use to remove the cannabinoids,

1100
00:43:21,445 --> 00:43:23,464
to isolate them. And

1101
00:43:24,005 --> 00:43:25,545
is the extraction

1102
00:43:25,925 --> 00:43:26,425
or

1103
00:43:26,969 --> 00:43:30,090
isolation process with this plant any easier or

1104
00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:32,969
more difficult than than cannabis? Or or is

1105
00:43:32,969 --> 00:43:35,050
it about the same because you're just trying

1106
00:43:35,050 --> 00:43:37,230
to get cannabinoids out of plant material?

1107
00:43:38,010 --> 00:43:40,904
So it's it's pretty straightforward. It's the same

1108
00:43:40,904 --> 00:43:42,525
as what we do for cannabis,

1109
00:43:42,984 --> 00:43:44,924
to extract cannabinoids from cannabis.

1110
00:43:46,184 --> 00:43:47,784
So there are many ways that you can

1111
00:43:47,784 --> 00:43:49,784
extract this, but what we usually do in

1112
00:43:49,784 --> 00:43:51,884
the lab is just a simple ethanolic

1113
00:43:52,264 --> 00:43:52,764
extraction.

1114
00:43:53,224 --> 00:43:53,724
Mhmm.

1115
00:43:55,109 --> 00:43:55,609
So,

1116
00:43:56,789 --> 00:43:58,630
you may not know this next question because

1117
00:43:58,630 --> 00:44:00,010
it's it's very cannabis,

1118
00:44:00,949 --> 00:44:02,569
user centric. But,

1119
00:44:02,949 --> 00:44:05,369
are are you familiar at all with how,

1120
00:44:06,069 --> 00:44:06,569
traditional

1121
00:44:07,625 --> 00:44:09,244
cannabis enthusiasts will

1122
00:44:09,545 --> 00:44:12,505
use ice water and ice to make the

1123
00:44:12,505 --> 00:44:14,605
trichomes on a cannabis plant,

1124
00:44:15,385 --> 00:44:17,704
cold and then and then mix them so

1125
00:44:17,704 --> 00:44:20,425
the trichomes break off and settle into the

1126
00:44:20,425 --> 00:44:23,219
bottom and then are concentrated that way to

1127
00:44:23,219 --> 00:44:24,039
make hashish.

1128
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:26,340
Is that would that be possible with this

1129
00:44:26,340 --> 00:44:27,640
plant? Are the trichomes

1130
00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:31,000
brittle and removable like that on this plant?

1131
00:44:31,619 --> 00:44:32,760
So the

1132
00:44:33,380 --> 00:44:33,880
trichomes,

1133
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:35,640
on this plant have

1134
00:44:36,605 --> 00:44:38,924
although they are also trichomes, but they they're,

1135
00:44:39,885 --> 00:44:41,424
they have quite a different,

1136
00:44:42,284 --> 00:44:42,784
structure.

1137
00:44:43,164 --> 00:44:44,464
They have a much stalker

1138
00:44:44,844 --> 00:44:48,144
shorter stalk, compared to the ones from, cannabis.

1139
00:44:48,605 --> 00:44:49,964
And we did try to,

1140
00:44:51,429 --> 00:44:54,809
purify trichomes because we were interested in doing

1141
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:56,890
analysis of single trichomes.

1142
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:59,050
And it was much harder,

1143
00:44:59,429 --> 00:45:00,489
to do than,

1144
00:45:00,949 --> 00:45:01,769
in cannabis.

1145
00:45:02,469 --> 00:45:04,505
Very good. Thank you. It's of course, we're

1146
00:45:04,505 --> 00:45:06,184
curious to know. Can we make hash out

1147
00:45:06,184 --> 00:45:06,765
of it?

1148
00:45:08,344 --> 00:45:10,985
Do the do the cannabinoid levels vary depending

1149
00:45:10,985 --> 00:45:12,664
on the growing conditions? I'm not sure if

1150
00:45:12,664 --> 00:45:14,425
you've gotten to that part of the research

1151
00:45:14,425 --> 00:45:15,965
yet, but, it's worth asking.

1152
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,839
So we didn't go we didn't get to

1153
00:45:18,839 --> 00:45:20,760
that part yet. I'm sure that they will,

1154
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,639
change just like any other type of plant

1155
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:24,139
that,

1156
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:26,539
will be affect so any type of specialized

1157
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:28,619
metabolites in plants will change

1158
00:45:29,375 --> 00:45:32,815
in response to any type to to specific

1159
00:45:32,815 --> 00:45:35,234
types of stress or growing conditions,

1160
00:45:36,255 --> 00:45:37,875
for the good or for the bad.

1161
00:45:39,694 --> 00:45:41,795
Does the plant contain cannabinoids

1162
00:45:42,174 --> 00:45:45,269
throughout its entire life cycle or only at

1163
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:46,250
certain stages?

1164
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:49,769
We found them in all the stages,

1165
00:45:52,070 --> 00:45:54,789
and in all the tissues besides the roots,

1166
00:45:54,789 --> 00:45:55,690
as I mentioned.

1167
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:59,210
And since it's an all all year round

1168
00:45:59,989 --> 00:46:00,969
growing plant,

1169
00:46:01,594 --> 00:46:03,835
you have them all year round as well.

1170
00:46:03,835 --> 00:46:05,674
That's great. So it's not like in cannabis

1171
00:46:05,674 --> 00:46:07,755
where you need you start growing and then

1172
00:46:07,755 --> 00:46:09,275
you need to wait until you get the

1173
00:46:09,275 --> 00:46:09,775
plants,

1174
00:46:10,315 --> 00:46:12,554
to flower. And then you have a limited

1175
00:46:12,554 --> 00:46:14,474
amount of time that the plant is flowering

1176
00:46:14,474 --> 00:46:16,170
and then after that you need to have

1177
00:46:16,329 --> 00:46:17,150
another cycle.

1178
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:18,670
Here, the plant,

1179
00:46:19,690 --> 00:46:20,829
just grows

1180
00:46:22,089 --> 00:46:23,530
all the time, and you can use the

1181
00:46:23,530 --> 00:46:24,030
biomass.

1182
00:46:24,569 --> 00:46:26,569
It sounds also type of biomass. It sounds

1183
00:46:26,569 --> 00:46:27,929
also that since it's,

1184
00:46:28,844 --> 00:46:31,965
since the trichomes have got cannabinoids in it

1185
00:46:31,965 --> 00:46:32,704
year round,

1186
00:46:33,085 --> 00:46:35,644
that it might be possible to treat this

1187
00:46:35,644 --> 00:46:38,364
as an ever growing plant too where where

1188
00:46:38,364 --> 00:46:39,505
maybe you're growing

1189
00:46:39,965 --> 00:46:41,840
a a larger shrub of it and you

1190
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,519
harvest half of it and then you let

1191
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:45,440
the rest of it go and then you

1192
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,780
harvest it again later. Does that seem reasonable

1193
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,860
for this plant? Yes. Definitely.

1194
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:50,820
Wonderful.

1195
00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:54,179
Let's see here.

1196
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:55,619
So

1197
00:46:56,075 --> 00:46:57,675
from what you've seen so far, and I

1198
00:46:57,675 --> 00:46:59,515
I understand this research may not have been

1199
00:46:59,515 --> 00:47:01,855
done yet, have have you found any potential

1200
00:47:02,075 --> 00:47:04,414
benefits that might make it superior

1201
00:47:04,715 --> 00:47:05,454
to cannabis

1202
00:47:05,914 --> 00:47:07,055
for certain cannabinoid,

1203
00:47:07,914 --> 00:47:08,414
applications?

1204
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:12,300
So,

1205
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:15,000
first of all, the fact that it has

1206
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,599
high CBG, like we mentioned before, versus other

1207
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:19,659
types of cannabinoids.

1208
00:47:20,839 --> 00:47:22,859
Also the fact that it has no THC,

1209
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:25,474
it's it makes its legal status,

1210
00:47:25,875 --> 00:47:28,515
much easier. I mean, it doesn't it's not

1211
00:47:28,515 --> 00:47:31,394
illegal like, cannabis. Even cannabis that is high

1212
00:47:31,394 --> 00:47:31,894
CBD

1213
00:47:32,434 --> 00:47:34,295
with very low amounts of THC,

1214
00:47:35,315 --> 00:47:36,055
it's still

1215
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:38,480
not it's not in the same,

1216
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:41,539
status as the the heli plant.

1217
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,400
Like we mentioned, we have all year round

1218
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,099
supply of, cannabinoids.

1219
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,460
And the leaves that are the most abundant

1220
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:51,440
ones, so you don't need to wait for

1221
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:51,940
flowering.

1222
00:47:52,474 --> 00:47:54,554
Of course, the fact that you have cannabinoids

1223
00:47:54,554 --> 00:47:56,335
that are not present in cannabis,

1224
00:47:57,195 --> 00:48:00,235
it's also another advantage that might have, different

1225
00:48:00,235 --> 00:48:00,974
types of,

1226
00:48:01,835 --> 00:48:02,335
bioactivities

1227
00:48:02,715 --> 00:48:04,335
as well as also noncannabinoid

1228
00:48:05,275 --> 00:48:05,775
molecules.

1229
00:48:06,769 --> 00:48:08,389
In cannabis, you have this,

1230
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:09,909
kind of flavivants,

1231
00:48:10,210 --> 00:48:10,949
for example,

1232
00:48:11,409 --> 00:48:13,809
but these are very, very much, much lower

1233
00:48:13,809 --> 00:48:14,309
concentrations

1234
00:48:14,690 --> 00:48:15,670
compared to,

1235
00:48:16,929 --> 00:48:17,829
to cannabinoids.

1236
00:48:18,369 --> 00:48:19,670
In the heli plant,

1237
00:48:20,130 --> 00:48:21,269
you have a lot

1238
00:48:21,775 --> 00:48:22,434
of flavonoids,

1239
00:48:23,135 --> 00:48:23,635
amorphotins,

1240
00:48:23,934 --> 00:48:25,795
and other types of compounds that are,

1241
00:48:26,175 --> 00:48:26,914
very abundant

1242
00:48:27,454 --> 00:48:27,954
and,

1243
00:48:29,215 --> 00:48:30,835
look like similar concentrations

1244
00:48:31,135 --> 00:48:32,355
like, the cannabinoids.

1245
00:48:34,349 --> 00:48:36,190
What is the what is the aroma of

1246
00:48:36,190 --> 00:48:38,429
the plant itself? When you're just in when

1247
00:48:38,429 --> 00:48:40,289
you're in the greenhouse, what do you smell?

1248
00:48:40,750 --> 00:48:43,170
It's a beautiful aroma. It's like

1249
00:48:43,549 --> 00:48:44,210
a very,

1250
00:48:44,829 --> 00:48:45,809
light perfume

1251
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:47,809
smell. Nothing like cannabis.

1252
00:48:48,444 --> 00:48:51,664
Is it is it more floral and pleasant

1253
00:48:51,804 --> 00:48:54,844
or is it is it more like like

1254
00:48:54,844 --> 00:48:56,385
like stanky beautiful?

1255
00:48:57,005 --> 00:48:58,944
No. No. It's like a floral.

1256
00:48:59,405 --> 00:48:59,984
Oh, yeah.

1257
00:49:00,844 --> 00:49:02,909
Yeah. Like a perfume. Like a perfume. Mhmm.

1258
00:49:05,389 --> 00:49:05,889
So

1259
00:49:06,269 --> 00:49:07,250
when you

1260
00:49:08,269 --> 00:49:09,730
when you started publishing

1261
00:49:10,349 --> 00:49:12,190
your results and people started,

1262
00:49:12,589 --> 00:49:13,569
noticing it,

1263
00:49:14,589 --> 00:49:15,730
have you gotten,

1264
00:49:16,414 --> 00:49:18,815
the support that you would hope to have

1265
00:49:18,815 --> 00:49:19,315
gotten

1266
00:49:19,614 --> 00:49:20,835
in order to

1267
00:49:21,375 --> 00:49:24,335
continue with this research and and increase our

1268
00:49:24,335 --> 00:49:27,375
familiarity with the plant? It sounds like the

1269
00:49:27,375 --> 00:49:27,875
the

1270
00:49:28,255 --> 00:49:28,710
the reaction

1271
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:36,969
going concern, like, going into the future. Like,

1272
00:49:37,429 --> 00:49:39,510
do you have the support that you need

1273
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:42,150
now to continue this research to get us

1274
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:43,690
more familiar with this plant?

1275
00:49:46,414 --> 00:49:46,815
So,

1276
00:49:47,295 --> 00:49:48,994
yes. I mean, we have no,

1277
00:49:50,494 --> 00:49:51,954
barriers at the moment,

1278
00:49:52,255 --> 00:49:55,155
to continue this, type of research. Of course,

1279
00:49:55,215 --> 00:49:57,980
the the biggest barrier is time. Yeah.

1280
00:49:58,519 --> 00:49:59,820
Because we are also,

1281
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:01,739
studying,

1282
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:03,739
other plants and other,

1283
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:05,900
we have other

1284
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,059
goals that we want to achieve.

1285
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,420
But this is sad,

1286
00:50:09,735 --> 00:50:11,195
definitely something that,

1287
00:50:11,655 --> 00:50:14,055
we are planning to continue. We have some

1288
00:50:14,055 --> 00:50:17,275
more questions that we are planning to answer,

1289
00:50:18,855 --> 00:50:21,655
and we yes. We we don't have any

1290
00:50:21,655 --> 00:50:24,315
problems continuing working on it. That's fantastic.

1291
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,039
So in set three, we're gonna talk more

1292
00:50:27,039 --> 00:50:29,440
about, the future and and what some of

1293
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,599
the strategies of interacting with this plant look

1294
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:33,119
like. But for right now, we're gonna take

1295
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:34,500
our second commercial break.

1296
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:37,795
You are listening to Shaping Fire, and my

1297
00:50:37,795 --> 00:50:40,914
guest today is plant biochemist, doctor Paula Berman.

1298
00:50:40,914 --> 00:50:43,155
And, you know, without these advertisers, Shaping Fire

1299
00:50:43,155 --> 00:50:45,315
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1300
00:50:45,315 --> 00:50:46,914
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1301
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heard of them on Shaping Fire.

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1315
00:51:24,089 --> 00:51:26,730
talk about your product, service, or brand in

1316
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1326
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1327
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1328
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1329
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1350
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1351
00:52:44,220 --> 00:52:45,280
to find out more.

1352
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:50,539
This message is for folks who grow cannabis.

1353
00:52:50,539 --> 00:52:53,099
I'm talking to home growers, patients, and commercial

1354
00:52:53,099 --> 00:52:56,065
growers too. I'm probably talking to you. When

1355
00:52:56,065 --> 00:52:58,065
you plan out your next growing cycle, be

1356
00:52:58,065 --> 00:53:01,184
sure to check out Humboldt CSI seeds at

1357
00:53:01,184 --> 00:53:03,285
humboldtcsi.com.

1358
00:53:03,585 --> 00:53:05,824
Caleb Inspecta and his family have lived in

1359
00:53:05,824 --> 00:53:08,210
Humboldt County for over a hundred years. For

1360
00:53:08,210 --> 00:53:10,690
the last forty years, three generations of his

1361
00:53:10,690 --> 00:53:12,389
family have cultivated extraordinary

1362
00:53:12,769 --> 00:53:15,409
sense of mia cannabis in Humboldt, Mendocino, and

1363
00:53:15,409 --> 00:53:16,389
Trinity Counties.

1364
00:53:17,010 --> 00:53:19,409
Because of his lineage and the hard earned

1365
00:53:19,409 --> 00:53:22,453
experience that comes from growing up smoking and

1366
00:53:22,453 --> 00:53:25,195
sifting large populations of cannabis plants in Northern

1367
00:53:25,195 --> 00:53:27,937
California, the seeds you'll cop from CSI will

1368
00:53:27,937 --> 00:53:30,679
be winning genetics based on long time heavy

1369
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:33,421
hitters and updated and resifted to bring out

1370
00:53:33,421 --> 00:53:36,300
new and exotic traits and better yields. Go

1371
00:53:36,300 --> 00:53:38,940
ahead and ask around. Caleb, also known as

1372
00:53:38,940 --> 00:53:41,579
Inspecta and Pirates of the Emerald Triangle is

1373
00:53:41,579 --> 00:53:44,140
a breeder's breeder. He reaches way back and

1374
00:53:44,140 --> 00:53:45,760
works with significant strains,

1375
00:53:46,059 --> 00:53:48,380
recreating them in new and interesting ways that

1376
00:53:48,380 --> 00:53:50,715
you'll love as a toker and a grower

1377
00:53:50,875 --> 00:53:52,954
as well as offering you some surprises that

1378
00:53:52,954 --> 00:53:55,454
will delight serious seed traders and cultivators.

1379
00:53:56,315 --> 00:53:59,454
Humboldt's CSI goes a further step and selfs

1380
00:53:59,594 --> 00:54:01,835
all these chemovars so you know all the

1381
00:54:01,835 --> 00:54:04,139
seeds will be female. These are not experimental

1382
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:05,980
feminized seeds.

1383
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,000
Humboldt CSI releases some of the best female

1384
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,400
seeds available anywhere and it will show in

1385
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:12,139
your garden.

1386
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,840
Folks grew quite a bit of CSI Humboldt

1387
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,239
genetics last year here on Vashon Island and

1388
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,655
everyone was pleased. The patients had beautiful female

1389
00:54:20,655 --> 00:54:22,575
plants and didn't have to cull half of

1390
00:54:22,575 --> 00:54:23,795
their garden as males.

1391
00:54:24,255 --> 00:54:26,175
The folks growing for the fun of getting

1392
00:54:26,175 --> 00:54:29,454
high grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal

1393
00:54:29,454 --> 00:54:30,515
and great highs.

1394
00:54:30,869 --> 00:54:33,429
And breeders had seven out of seven females

1395
00:54:33,429 --> 00:54:35,029
in a pack which gave them a lot

1396
00:54:35,029 --> 00:54:36,329
of phenotypic choices.

1397
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:41,509
Take a moment right now and visit humboldtcsi.com.

1398
00:54:41,509 --> 00:54:43,269
You'll find an up to date menu of

1399
00:54:43,269 --> 00:54:46,155
both feminized and regular lines along with photos

1400
00:54:46,155 --> 00:54:46,974
and descriptions.

1401
00:54:47,355 --> 00:54:50,574
That's humboldtcsi.com.

1402
00:54:54,155 --> 00:54:55,835
After you've caught up on the latest Shaping

1403
00:54:55,835 --> 00:54:57,675
Fire episodes, do you sometimes wish there was

1404
00:54:57,675 --> 00:55:00,235
more cannabis education available to learn? Well, we

1405
00:55:00,235 --> 00:55:02,659
got you. Shaping Fire has a fabulous YouTube

1406
00:55:02,659 --> 00:55:04,920
channel with content not found on the podcast.

1407
00:55:05,380 --> 00:55:07,539
When I attend conventions to speak or moderate

1408
00:55:07,539 --> 00:55:09,380
panels, I always record them and bring the

1409
00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:11,699
content home for you to watch. The Shango

1410
00:55:11,699 --> 00:55:14,440
Los YouTube channel has world class speakers including

1411
00:55:14,664 --> 00:55:16,924
Zoe Sigman's lecture, understanding your endocannabinoid

1412
00:55:17,384 --> 00:55:20,344
system. Kevin Jodrey of Wonderland Nursery talking about

1413
00:55:20,344 --> 00:55:22,605
breeding cannabis for the best terpene profile.

1414
00:55:22,984 --> 00:55:25,804
Frenchie Canole's lost art of the hashician presentation.

1415
00:55:26,424 --> 00:55:29,724
Nicholas Mahmood on regenerative and polyculture cannabis growing.

1416
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,159
Doctor Sunil Agarwal on the history of cannabis

1417
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,880
medicine around the world, Eric Vlowski and Josh

1418
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,179
Rutherford on solventless

1419
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:37,059
extraction,

1420
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,780
and Jeff Lowenfell's on the soil food web.

1421
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,559
There are several presentations from doctor Ethan Russo

1422
00:55:42,559 --> 00:55:43,780
on terpenes and the endocannabinoid

1423
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:46,355
system too. While there, be sure to check

1424
00:55:46,355 --> 00:55:48,835
out the three ten part shaping fire session

1425
00:55:48,835 --> 00:55:49,335
series.

1426
00:55:49,635 --> 00:55:51,875
One with Kevin Jodrey, one with doctor Ethan

1427
00:55:51,875 --> 00:55:53,574
Russo, and one with Jeff Lowenfeld.

1428
00:55:54,114 --> 00:55:56,114
And even my own presentations on how to

1429
00:55:56,114 --> 00:55:58,440
approach finding your dream job in cannabis and

1430
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,679
why we choose cannabis business even though the

1431
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:02,839
risks are so high. As of today, there's

1432
00:56:02,839 --> 00:56:04,679
over 200 videos that you can check out

1433
00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:08,519
for free. So go to youtube.com/shangolows

1434
00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:10,139
or click on the link in the newsletter.

1435
00:56:11,394 --> 00:56:13,635
Welcome back. You are listening to shaping fire.

1436
00:56:13,635 --> 00:56:15,555
I am your host, Shango Los, and my

1437
00:56:15,555 --> 00:56:18,375
guest today is plant biochemist, doctor Paula Berman.

1438
00:56:18,914 --> 00:56:21,394
And, we we've been talking doctor Berman and

1439
00:56:21,394 --> 00:56:23,250
I were talking during the break about how

1440
00:56:23,250 --> 00:56:25,250
much I feel like a, you know, a

1441
00:56:25,250 --> 00:56:25,750
cheerleader

1442
00:56:26,050 --> 00:56:27,110
for this plant

1443
00:56:27,570 --> 00:56:28,929
because, you know, all of us who have

1444
00:56:28,929 --> 00:56:31,170
been studying cannabinoids and have been caring about,

1445
00:56:31,170 --> 00:56:32,070
you know, endocannabinoid

1446
00:56:32,530 --> 00:56:34,929
medicine for years and and have worked with

1447
00:56:34,929 --> 00:56:37,424
the plant, We've we've all got this very

1448
00:56:37,424 --> 00:56:40,944
close relationship with cannabis, and and we're always

1449
00:56:40,944 --> 00:56:42,545
trying to find the plant and learn about

1450
00:56:42,545 --> 00:56:45,284
the plant to find out that there is

1451
00:56:45,744 --> 00:56:49,440
another plant that produces cannabinoids in these volumes

1452
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:52,480
that is doesn't have the same legal structures

1453
00:56:52,619 --> 00:56:53,360
around it.

1454
00:56:53,660 --> 00:56:55,900
It it's it just creates it just feels

1455
00:56:55,900 --> 00:56:59,360
like this huge opportunity where we can practice

1456
00:56:59,420 --> 00:57:01,019
healing in a way that,

1457
00:57:01,420 --> 00:57:02,400
might not be

1458
00:57:04,265 --> 00:57:05,005
so inaccessible

1459
00:57:05,545 --> 00:57:07,545
due to the laws. And and,

1460
00:57:08,184 --> 00:57:09,144
and and and I just

1461
00:57:10,585 --> 00:57:12,125
it's fun to

1462
00:57:12,505 --> 00:57:14,585
I I I'm probably going to embarrass you

1463
00:57:14,585 --> 00:57:15,960
a little bit, Paula, but you're kind of

1464
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,440
like a hero to us. Right? Like, the

1465
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,679
research that you're doing is is something that

1466
00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:23,400
we all are looking for, and you're at

1467
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,960
the at the front of it. So so,

1468
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:27,880
I know I'm fanboying about it, but I

1469
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,719
have a feeling that you don't get enough

1470
00:57:29,719 --> 00:57:31,775
of that. And so I'm just I'm just

1471
00:57:31,775 --> 00:57:34,414
letting my freak flag fly so so that

1472
00:57:34,414 --> 00:57:37,054
you understand how much we appreciate this research

1473
00:57:37,054 --> 00:57:37,875
that you're doing.

1474
00:57:39,214 --> 00:57:41,534
So thank you very much. I would just

1475
00:57:41,534 --> 00:57:44,494
like to mention that, this project has been

1476
00:57:44,494 --> 00:57:46,230
like a dream project to me.

1477
00:57:48,070 --> 00:57:49,849
I've I've worked with the cannabis,

1478
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:50,630
for,

1479
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:52,889
for almost five years

1480
00:57:53,269 --> 00:57:55,769
before I came to the Weizmann Institute.

1481
00:57:56,469 --> 00:57:56,969
And,

1482
00:57:59,670 --> 00:58:02,179
it and so cannabis, you know, it's is

1483
00:58:02,445 --> 00:58:03,184
kind of

1484
00:58:03,485 --> 00:58:03,985
my,

1485
00:58:04,364 --> 00:58:05,184
true passion.

1486
00:58:06,125 --> 00:58:07,744
But, having this,

1487
00:58:08,445 --> 00:58:08,945
so

1488
00:58:10,684 --> 00:58:11,184
having

1489
00:58:11,485 --> 00:58:12,144
the opportunity

1490
00:58:12,765 --> 00:58:13,825
to work on this,

1491
00:58:16,029 --> 00:58:17,569
study that was so,

1492
00:58:18,670 --> 00:58:21,630
preliminary. The the information that was known about

1493
00:58:21,630 --> 00:58:23,869
it was so preliminary, and everything that we

1494
00:58:23,869 --> 00:58:24,849
found was new.

1495
00:58:25,230 --> 00:58:28,589
And, thinking about how the prospects of working

1496
00:58:28,589 --> 00:58:31,425
on this, topic and what can come up

1497
00:58:31,425 --> 00:58:33,285
out of this, study,

1498
00:58:34,065 --> 00:58:36,724
is, truly exciting for us as well.

1499
00:58:37,025 --> 00:58:38,485
So thank you for the support.

1500
00:58:39,265 --> 00:58:41,744
Absolutely. And and and I and I don't

1501
00:58:41,744 --> 00:58:43,825
don't go away, listener, yet because we still

1502
00:58:43,825 --> 00:58:45,150
have more to talk about. But this seems

1503
00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:46,210
like a really good

1504
00:58:46,510 --> 00:58:48,670
time for me to ask you. You you

1505
00:58:48,670 --> 00:58:50,989
you have mentioned a couple times how important

1506
00:58:50,989 --> 00:58:53,389
the other people involved have been in this

1507
00:58:53,389 --> 00:58:55,469
research, and you asked for an opportunity to

1508
00:58:55,469 --> 00:58:57,549
acknowledge them. Let's it seems like it's just

1509
00:58:57,549 --> 00:58:58,989
fitting to go ahead and put that in

1510
00:58:58,989 --> 00:59:01,034
here, and then we'll then we'll continue with

1511
00:59:01,034 --> 00:59:04,155
our conversation on pharmaceutical companies. So so who

1512
00:59:04,155 --> 00:59:06,074
are those those other folks that you wanted

1513
00:59:06,074 --> 00:59:07,215
to make sure to acknowledge?

1514
00:59:07,594 --> 00:59:09,514
So I just wanted to mention that I

1515
00:59:09,514 --> 00:59:11,755
was part of a team. So we work

1516
00:59:11,755 --> 00:59:11,994
with,

1517
00:59:12,715 --> 00:59:14,219
professor Asafar on his

1518
00:59:14,699 --> 00:59:16,940
lab in the Weizmann Institute, and he's, of

1519
00:59:16,940 --> 00:59:18,480
course, the the,

1520
00:59:18,940 --> 00:59:22,059
principal investigator of true inspiration. Really, he is,

1521
00:59:22,059 --> 00:59:23,900
like, such an enthusiast about,

1522
00:59:24,539 --> 00:59:25,920
plant science and,

1523
00:59:27,005 --> 00:59:30,844
everything related, to small molecules and biochemistry, and

1524
00:59:30,844 --> 00:59:32,605
I learned so much from him. I wanted

1525
00:59:32,605 --> 00:59:33,664
also to acknowledge,

1526
00:59:34,045 --> 00:59:36,945
Luis Adam Prashant, three other postdocs,

1527
00:59:37,885 --> 00:59:40,385
that also worked on this, project. Luis

1528
00:59:40,820 --> 00:59:41,719
is a bioinformatician,

1529
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:44,500
and he did all the genome and the

1530
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:45,000
transcriptome

1531
00:59:46,820 --> 00:59:48,039
in this study.

1532
00:59:48,340 --> 00:59:50,360
Adam Adam and Krashen did

1533
00:59:51,139 --> 00:59:53,300
a lot of the molecular biology and taught

1534
00:59:53,300 --> 00:59:54,900
me how to do a lot of the

1535
00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:56,474
things that we did here in this

1536
00:59:57,355 --> 00:59:57,914
work. Dong,

1537
00:59:59,914 --> 01:00:01,614
was also a postdoc,

1538
01:00:02,635 --> 01:00:04,815
that helped me with the MALDI imaging and

1539
01:00:05,515 --> 01:00:07,675
the feeding of plants. We have Tully from

1540
01:00:07,675 --> 01:00:10,630
the NMR unit and Smadar and the Yal

1541
01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:11,530
from the electronic

1542
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:12,329
microscopic

1543
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:15,849
unit microscope unit in the Weizmann Institute

1544
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:17,530
that helped me,

1545
01:00:18,550 --> 01:00:19,769
really have the most,

1546
01:00:20,070 --> 01:00:20,570
amazing

1547
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:22,809
images of trichomes.

1548
01:00:23,574 --> 01:00:25,414
And many other people that I will not

1549
01:00:25,414 --> 01:00:28,135
mention, I although they contributed a lot, other

1550
01:00:28,135 --> 01:00:30,215
people from, the lab. So thank you for

1551
01:00:30,215 --> 01:00:33,175
the opportunity to mention them. Absolutely. And and

1552
01:00:33,175 --> 01:00:35,574
thank you to everyone on your team for

1553
01:00:35,574 --> 01:00:38,369
this very important research that you're doing. Alright.

1554
01:00:38,369 --> 01:00:40,289
So let's let's continue to look a little

1555
01:00:40,289 --> 01:00:42,929
bit more forward. So so we're at this

1556
01:00:42,929 --> 01:00:45,569
interesting time with this plant where, you know,

1557
01:00:45,569 --> 01:00:48,369
we're still doing the fundamental research to figure

1558
01:00:48,369 --> 01:00:50,710
out how this plant expresses itself.

1559
01:00:51,089 --> 01:00:53,029
We also know that,

1560
01:00:54,025 --> 01:00:57,144
you know, pharmaceutical companies are always looking for,

1561
01:00:57,625 --> 01:00:59,164
early stage new drugs.

1562
01:00:59,545 --> 01:01:01,724
Have we gotten to the part that pharmaceutical

1563
01:01:01,945 --> 01:01:04,264
companies are starting to become engaged with this

1564
01:01:04,264 --> 01:01:06,105
research, or are we still a little early

1565
01:01:06,105 --> 01:01:06,605
yet?

1566
01:01:07,849 --> 01:01:10,570
So I think for us, it's still an

1567
01:01:10,570 --> 01:01:12,910
early stage. I mean, we have not been

1568
01:01:14,489 --> 01:01:14,989
doing

1569
01:01:15,690 --> 01:01:16,190
any

1570
01:01:16,650 --> 01:01:17,150
active

1571
01:01:18,170 --> 01:01:20,510
research on the with pharmaceutical

1572
01:01:21,050 --> 01:01:21,550
companies.

1573
01:01:22,934 --> 01:01:25,175
But I am sure that it will also

1574
01:01:25,175 --> 01:01:25,675
come.

1575
01:01:26,855 --> 01:01:29,095
What do you think will be the long

1576
01:01:29,095 --> 01:01:29,595
term,

1577
01:01:32,295 --> 01:01:33,675
how do I wanna say this?

1578
01:01:33,974 --> 01:01:37,015
What extraction method seems to work best on

1579
01:01:37,015 --> 01:01:38,719
this plant as far as,

1580
01:01:39,579 --> 01:01:41,760
moving towards scaled solutions?

1581
01:01:42,139 --> 01:01:43,820
You know, for example, you mentioned in the

1582
01:01:43,820 --> 01:01:45,519
lab that you like to use ethanol,

1583
01:01:46,139 --> 01:01:48,960
which is what a lot of home cannabis

1584
01:01:49,179 --> 01:01:49,679
preparation,

1585
01:01:50,699 --> 01:01:51,920
preparers use.

1586
01:01:52,514 --> 01:01:54,295
But when it's scaled up,

1587
01:01:54,835 --> 01:01:55,875
they use different,

1588
01:01:56,275 --> 01:01:57,414
extraction styles,

1589
01:01:57,954 --> 01:01:59,174
for large volumes.

1590
01:01:59,714 --> 01:02:01,954
Will they be will they likely be the

1591
01:02:01,954 --> 01:02:02,934
same extraction,

1592
01:02:03,714 --> 01:02:06,789
varieties at at scale as as we see

1593
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:09,210
with cannabis, or are there any intricacies

1594
01:02:09,589 --> 01:02:10,409
in the plant

1595
01:02:10,869 --> 01:02:11,690
that would,

1596
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:14,550
make that not as,

1597
01:02:14,869 --> 01:02:15,369
elegant?

1598
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:18,710
No. I I believe that the same types

1599
01:02:18,710 --> 01:02:21,364
of extraction methods that apply to cannabis,

1600
01:02:21,905 --> 01:02:23,425
will also be applied here.

1601
01:02:24,305 --> 01:02:26,465
In the past, we also used to do

1602
01:02:26,465 --> 01:02:27,265
a lot of,

1603
01:02:27,664 --> 01:02:29,364
ethanol extraction in in

1604
01:02:30,305 --> 01:02:31,844
when we were studying cannabis,

1605
01:02:32,545 --> 01:02:33,550
ethanol extractions,

1606
01:02:33,929 --> 01:02:35,609
also when we were scaling up, I know

1607
01:02:35,609 --> 01:02:37,710
that, at least here in Israel,

1608
01:02:38,010 --> 01:02:39,630
it's considered like,

1609
01:02:40,329 --> 01:02:42,429
the standard method to make extracts,

1610
01:02:43,449 --> 01:02:45,690
and it works pretty well with,

1611
01:02:46,090 --> 01:02:47,469
also with, heliplant,

1612
01:02:48,244 --> 01:02:51,525
especially because, when it's intended for, patients, you

1613
01:02:51,525 --> 01:02:53,065
don't want to use organic,

1614
01:02:53,525 --> 01:02:56,505
solvents or other methods that might be,

1615
01:02:57,765 --> 01:02:59,864
hazardous to to patients.

1616
01:03:00,405 --> 01:03:00,905
Yeah.

1617
01:03:02,589 --> 01:03:04,510
Is your team working on,

1618
01:03:04,909 --> 01:03:07,969
breeding programs at all to increase the cannabinoid

1619
01:03:08,190 --> 01:03:10,589
production? Or are are we at the point

1620
01:03:10,589 --> 01:03:12,349
where we're just trying to figure out how

1621
01:03:12,349 --> 01:03:14,609
that's taking place to begin with?

1622
01:03:15,315 --> 01:03:18,034
So we in the Wise One Institute don't

1623
01:03:18,034 --> 01:03:18,775
work on,

1624
01:03:19,714 --> 01:03:20,214
breathing.

1625
01:03:20,755 --> 01:03:23,394
We we are trying to do some,

1626
01:03:25,635 --> 01:03:27,335
genetic engineering transformation,

1627
01:03:28,195 --> 01:03:29,494
for the heli plant,

1628
01:03:31,650 --> 01:03:34,530
but, we have not succeeded yet. But it's

1629
01:03:34,530 --> 01:03:36,530
definitely one of the things that we want

1630
01:03:36,530 --> 01:03:38,469
to do to have the potential to,

1631
01:03:40,050 --> 01:03:41,109
be able to,

1632
01:03:42,369 --> 01:03:44,614
knock out genes or to add genes. For

1633
01:03:44,614 --> 01:03:46,234
example, imagine the

1634
01:03:46,534 --> 01:03:48,155
the possibility of adding,

1635
01:03:49,734 --> 01:03:50,795
CBDA synthase,

1636
01:03:51,494 --> 01:03:52,554
into the heli,

1637
01:03:53,734 --> 01:03:55,994
plant that will allow you to make CBDA

1638
01:03:56,214 --> 01:03:57,734
in the in the plant. We are talking

1639
01:03:57,734 --> 01:04:00,369
about, basically, it's one gene that will take

1640
01:04:00,369 --> 01:04:01,989
CBGA to produce CBDA.

1641
01:04:03,570 --> 01:04:05,730
Of course, there there might be also some

1642
01:04:05,730 --> 01:04:06,230
other,

1643
01:04:07,090 --> 01:04:09,989
genes or some, other proteins that are involved.

1644
01:04:10,210 --> 01:04:11,429
But to have this ability

1645
01:04:11,809 --> 01:04:12,309
is,

1646
01:04:13,010 --> 01:04:15,764
of course, with very high potential and very

1647
01:04:15,764 --> 01:04:16,264
interesting

1648
01:04:17,684 --> 01:04:19,844
overall. Also, to have the ability to knock

1649
01:04:19,844 --> 01:04:20,985
out genes to

1650
01:04:21,525 --> 01:04:23,844
even for Heli, even for us to study

1651
01:04:23,844 --> 01:04:26,324
what's the role of cannabinoids. So you asked

1652
01:04:26,324 --> 01:04:26,985
me before,

1653
01:04:27,489 --> 01:04:29,170
what is the role of cannabinoids to the

1654
01:04:29,170 --> 01:04:30,950
plant? So one of the best ways

1655
01:04:31,329 --> 01:04:33,250
that one would be able to test this

1656
01:04:33,250 --> 01:04:33,750
is,

1657
01:04:34,690 --> 01:04:36,369
if you have the ability, if you have

1658
01:04:36,369 --> 01:04:39,010
a a system to do transformation of a

1659
01:04:39,010 --> 01:04:39,510
plant,

1660
01:04:40,355 --> 01:04:42,275
to knock out specific genes. And then you

1661
01:04:42,275 --> 01:04:44,755
will have your mutant, and you will have,

1662
01:04:46,434 --> 01:04:47,894
the wild type plant.

1663
01:04:49,474 --> 01:04:51,554
And then you can take both and and

1664
01:04:51,554 --> 01:04:54,389
test them with different types of stresses with

1665
01:04:54,789 --> 01:04:56,250
to see interaction with

1666
01:04:56,869 --> 01:04:57,369
pollinators,

1667
01:04:59,109 --> 01:05:02,150
interaction with bacteria and so on. It will

1668
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:04,089
help you answer these type of questions.

1669
01:05:04,949 --> 01:05:07,505
Another thing is another thing that we study

1670
01:05:07,505 --> 01:05:09,765
in the lab a lot is the biosynthetic

1671
01:05:09,905 --> 01:05:11,204
pathway. So one of the

1672
01:05:11,664 --> 01:05:12,885
aims of this study,

1673
01:05:13,505 --> 01:05:16,625
besides the chemistry and the all the work

1674
01:05:16,625 --> 01:05:18,704
that we did was also to identify the

1675
01:05:18,704 --> 01:05:21,125
biosynthetic pathway, how the plant produces

1676
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:22,420
carapenoids.

1677
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:26,079
And once we found the specific enzymes, then

1678
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:27,920
we have the ability we show how we

1679
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:29,059
can trans

1680
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:31,619
take these

1681
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,954
enzymes outside of the plant and express them

1682
01:05:35,954 --> 01:05:37,414
in a heterologous system.

1683
01:05:37,954 --> 01:05:41,894
So being either other plants or in bacteria

1684
01:05:41,954 --> 01:05:44,375
or in yeast, and then to have

1685
01:05:44,675 --> 01:05:45,974
a production of cannabinoids,

1686
01:05:46,755 --> 01:05:47,255
without

1687
01:05:47,555 --> 01:05:48,055
having,

1688
01:05:48,434 --> 01:05:49,015
the limitations

1689
01:05:49,555 --> 01:05:51,809
of the plant or even to test this,

1690
01:05:53,730 --> 01:05:54,550
same question.

1691
01:05:55,170 --> 01:05:56,630
If you take for example,

1692
01:05:57,489 --> 01:05:58,550
just as

1693
01:05:58,930 --> 01:05:59,430
a

1694
01:05:59,809 --> 01:06:01,349
tomato or you take,

1695
01:06:02,289 --> 01:06:04,690
tobacco or some other model plant that people

1696
01:06:04,690 --> 01:06:07,164
use, biologists, plant scientists use,

1697
01:06:07,545 --> 01:06:09,224
that you know how to transform and then

1698
01:06:09,224 --> 01:06:11,385
you take the whole pathway of cannabinoids and

1699
01:06:11,385 --> 01:06:13,545
you put it inside these plants. And then

1700
01:06:13,545 --> 01:06:16,204
again, you have the tomato, the white type

1701
01:06:16,264 --> 01:06:19,405
tomato and you have the mutant tomato and

1702
01:06:19,630 --> 01:06:22,030
you can use these systems to try to

1703
01:06:22,030 --> 01:06:22,530
understand,

1704
01:06:24,109 --> 01:06:27,010
what these cannabinoids do to the plant, whether

1705
01:06:27,309 --> 01:06:29,809
it helps them survive, in which conditions,

1706
01:06:30,590 --> 01:06:33,094
cope with which stresses and so on.

1707
01:06:33,715 --> 01:06:35,335
There you you describe

1708
01:06:35,635 --> 01:06:38,355
so much different research all taking place on

1709
01:06:38,355 --> 01:06:40,594
the plant at the same time. How many

1710
01:06:40,594 --> 01:06:42,914
people do you have working on in in

1711
01:06:42,914 --> 01:06:44,775
the lab on on these projects?

1712
01:06:45,239 --> 01:06:46,699
I mean, it sounds like a huge

1713
01:06:47,159 --> 01:06:47,980
number of

1714
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,539
people. So so this specific project,

1715
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,300
brought together several,

1716
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,579
different people

1717
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,119
and not all of them working full time

1718
01:07:00,119 --> 01:07:02,894
only on this. They were helped according to

1719
01:07:02,894 --> 01:07:03,394
their,

1720
01:07:05,135 --> 01:07:05,635
specialty.

1721
01:07:07,454 --> 01:07:10,195
Yeah. But this is one advantage of working

1722
01:07:10,494 --> 01:07:12,255
in this lab, the fact that you have

1723
01:07:12,255 --> 01:07:13,075
such a multidisciplinary

1724
01:07:13,535 --> 01:07:16,434
team of analytical chemists and then molecular biologists

1725
01:07:16,929 --> 01:07:17,329
and,

1726
01:07:17,730 --> 01:07:18,230
bioinformaticians

1727
01:07:18,929 --> 01:07:19,429
and,

1728
01:07:20,809 --> 01:07:23,730
it again, it's a really it's a big

1729
01:07:23,730 --> 01:07:24,949
blessing. And

1730
01:07:25,489 --> 01:07:27,170
the type of lab where you can do

1731
01:07:27,170 --> 01:07:29,030
this type of work, where you can

1732
01:07:29,335 --> 01:07:31,815
ask these questions and having all the tools

1733
01:07:31,815 --> 01:07:34,855
that you need to to answer them. Sure.

1734
01:07:34,855 --> 01:07:36,454
Can you can you just let us know?

1735
01:07:36,454 --> 01:07:38,715
Is it more or less than 50 people?

1736
01:07:39,175 --> 01:07:41,494
No. It's less than 50 people. So this

1737
01:07:41,494 --> 01:07:42,504
is this is a this is a lot

1738
01:07:42,504 --> 01:07:42,602
of passionate people who cross cross working on

1739
01:07:42,602 --> 01:07:43,364
each other's projects.

1740
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:47,450
Cross working on each other's projects

1741
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:49,158
so that so that,

1742
01:07:50,054 --> 01:07:50,502
every

1743
01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:53,430
everyone's project is lifted up at the same

1744
01:07:53,430 --> 01:07:55,269
time. I like this. There there must be

1745
01:07:55,269 --> 01:07:56,365
a lot of excitement,

1746
01:07:56,845 --> 01:08:00,125
moving around the different cells of of the

1747
01:08:00,125 --> 01:08:00,625
lab.

1748
01:08:01,164 --> 01:08:02,065
For yourself,

1749
01:08:02,525 --> 01:08:05,085
what what are we, likely to see as

1750
01:08:05,085 --> 01:08:07,805
the next published research coming out of your

1751
01:08:07,805 --> 01:08:08,305
lab?

1752
01:08:08,820 --> 01:08:09,320
Oh.

1753
01:08:10,820 --> 01:08:12,099
So first of all, we do in the

1754
01:08:12,099 --> 01:08:13,940
lab a lot of things also not related

1755
01:08:13,940 --> 01:08:16,360
to cannabinoids. Actually, this was the only

1756
01:08:17,140 --> 01:08:19,780
sorry. Not true. We are also working on,

1757
01:08:20,020 --> 01:08:22,755
cannabis, and we have a study that will

1758
01:08:22,755 --> 01:08:25,614
be published, I hope in the coming months,

1759
01:08:26,155 --> 01:08:27,055
which I cannot,

1760
01:08:29,435 --> 01:08:31,375
say too much about it. Yes, because,

1761
01:08:32,234 --> 01:08:34,074
I don't want to scoot us but,

1762
01:08:35,380 --> 01:08:36,119
we are

1763
01:08:36,420 --> 01:08:40,100
having some really cool results also on this

1764
01:08:40,100 --> 01:08:42,659
other cannabis project. But most of the other

1765
01:08:42,659 --> 01:08:44,680
people in the lab don't work on cannabis.

1766
01:08:44,739 --> 01:08:46,520
We have a lot of,

1767
01:08:47,699 --> 01:08:49,000
researchers on

1768
01:08:49,635 --> 01:08:52,755
very different types of we ask different types

1769
01:08:52,755 --> 01:08:53,494
of questions

1770
01:08:53,875 --> 01:08:55,414
questions related to,

1771
01:08:56,354 --> 01:08:57,175
plant science.

1772
01:08:58,675 --> 01:08:59,574
Me specifically,

1773
01:09:00,514 --> 01:09:02,594
in the lab in the last years, they've

1774
01:09:02,594 --> 01:09:03,395
been working on,

1775
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:08,300
psychoactive plants. So last year, we also published

1776
01:09:09,239 --> 01:09:12,439
a a paper on, the biosynthetic pathway of

1777
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:13,739
mescaline in peote,

1778
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:15,340
in in hallucinogenic

1779
01:09:15,719 --> 01:09:16,219
cacti,

1780
01:09:17,159 --> 01:09:20,279
where we elucidated the biosynthetic pathway. And I

1781
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:20,744
am working

1782
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,319
cool. I enjoyed reading that research last night,

1783
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:38,679
actually. I, in in in preparing preparing for

1784
01:09:38,679 --> 01:09:41,079
our other aspects, I I stumbled across the

1785
01:09:41,079 --> 01:09:43,880
peyote paper, and I'm like, my gosh. Doctor

1786
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:45,899
Berman is doing the most interesting research.

1787
01:09:48,375 --> 01:09:48,954
Thank you.

1788
01:09:49,414 --> 01:09:49,574
So,

1789
01:09:51,175 --> 01:09:53,734
so, I've got two two questions for you

1790
01:09:53,734 --> 01:09:55,574
kind of in in in moving us to

1791
01:09:55,574 --> 01:09:58,715
wrapping up. So so we understand

1792
01:09:59,015 --> 01:09:59,515
that

1793
01:10:01,210 --> 01:10:03,289
the the genie is out of the bottle,

1794
01:10:03,289 --> 01:10:04,890
if you will, as far as as far

1795
01:10:04,890 --> 01:10:06,729
as this plant goes. We we know the

1796
01:10:06,729 --> 01:10:09,210
cannabinoids are there. We know that they there

1797
01:10:09,210 --> 01:10:10,430
are a lot of them

1798
01:10:10,970 --> 01:10:13,449
and that the plant is easier to use

1799
01:10:13,449 --> 01:10:15,710
because of the of the legal reasons.

1800
01:10:16,444 --> 01:10:18,844
I'm curious, though, because we're still in the

1801
01:10:18,844 --> 01:10:19,664
early stages

1802
01:10:19,965 --> 01:10:22,764
when we're we're trying to find the basics

1803
01:10:22,764 --> 01:10:23,664
about the plant.

1804
01:10:24,284 --> 01:10:25,505
What do you foresee,

1805
01:10:26,524 --> 01:10:28,764
say, ten years down the line being the

1806
01:10:28,764 --> 01:10:31,744
status of this plant? You're is see you

1807
01:10:32,340 --> 01:10:35,219
see faster than anybody how quickly this research

1808
01:10:35,219 --> 01:10:37,859
is taking place and the areas that are

1809
01:10:37,859 --> 01:10:40,679
more likely to blossom to allow the pun.

1810
01:10:41,060 --> 01:10:42,659
What where where do you see our relationship

1811
01:10:42,659 --> 01:10:44,279
with this plant in ten years?

1812
01:10:46,304 --> 01:10:47,824
So I I can tell you what I

1813
01:10:47,824 --> 01:10:50,164
would like to see. Sure. Let's do that.

1814
01:10:50,385 --> 01:10:52,085
I would really like to see

1815
01:10:53,664 --> 01:10:55,045
a lot more research

1816
01:10:56,224 --> 01:10:57,844
done on the bioactivities

1817
01:10:58,385 --> 01:10:59,045
of the

1818
01:10:59,750 --> 01:11:01,770
molecules that, the plant produces.

1819
01:11:02,869 --> 01:11:04,470
I would really like to see that there

1820
01:11:04,470 --> 01:11:07,989
is a transformation platform to do transformation of

1821
01:11:07,989 --> 01:11:10,470
the plants, to be able to answer all

1822
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:12,090
these really amazing,

1823
01:11:12,885 --> 01:11:15,545
interesting questions that I mentioned before

1824
01:11:16,324 --> 01:11:18,984
and to have basically, to have

1825
01:11:22,404 --> 01:11:23,145
a, new,

1826
01:11:23,524 --> 01:11:25,860
even new types of of molecules that we

1827
01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:28,020
can produce and to learn much more about

1828
01:11:28,020 --> 01:11:28,680
the plant.

1829
01:11:30,739 --> 01:11:33,640
And to have available products from the plant

1830
01:11:33,699 --> 01:11:34,199
or

1831
01:11:34,820 --> 01:11:37,140
inspired by the molecules in the in the

1832
01:11:37,140 --> 01:11:39,380
helichrysum plant. So even if it's not from

1833
01:11:39,380 --> 01:11:39,880
HELI,

1834
01:11:40,244 --> 01:11:42,885
but, once we learn about the bioactivities of

1835
01:11:42,885 --> 01:11:45,045
these molecules, so to have,

1836
01:11:46,005 --> 01:11:47,704
the opportunity of having,

1837
01:11:48,564 --> 01:11:51,064
having them produce even outside of the plant,

1838
01:11:52,324 --> 01:11:54,664
in other platforms or other

1839
01:11:55,045 --> 01:11:56,300
systems. And

1840
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:57,260
hopefully,

1841
01:11:57,719 --> 01:11:59,179
that they will help also,

1842
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,460
patients or people that,

1843
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:05,500
that need it. Excellent.

1844
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:06,380
So

1845
01:12:07,159 --> 01:12:09,344
when we do research shows, I try to

1846
01:12:09,344 --> 01:12:11,824
end with this question because I always want

1847
01:12:11,824 --> 01:12:12,644
to encourage,

1848
01:12:14,224 --> 01:12:14,724
young

1849
01:12:15,184 --> 01:12:15,684
new

1850
01:12:15,984 --> 01:12:17,125
science minded,

1851
01:12:17,904 --> 01:12:21,204
folks who are in college or just out

1852
01:12:21,344 --> 01:12:24,010
to inspire them that there is still so

1853
01:12:24,010 --> 01:12:26,350
much research to be done,

1854
01:12:26,969 --> 01:12:29,689
in cannabinoids that that this this area is

1855
01:12:29,689 --> 01:12:31,689
just starting to blossom, and it's a great

1856
01:12:31,689 --> 01:12:33,850
time to get into this research. What kind

1857
01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:35,469
of advice would you give

1858
01:12:35,770 --> 01:12:38,774
of the types of things to perhaps study

1859
01:12:38,774 --> 01:12:39,835
and to,

1860
01:12:40,295 --> 01:12:44,054
bone up on for for cannabinoid researchers who

1861
01:12:44,054 --> 01:12:46,135
are still in college and but but would

1862
01:12:46,135 --> 01:12:48,614
like to start moving into researching with this

1863
01:12:48,614 --> 01:12:51,094
plant? What kinds of backgrounds and preparations should

1864
01:12:51,094 --> 01:12:51,914
they be making?

1865
01:12:53,850 --> 01:12:55,369
First of all, I would tell them to

1866
01:12:55,369 --> 01:12:58,329
go for it, to go for studying cannabis

1867
01:12:58,969 --> 01:12:59,469
cannabinoids.

1868
01:13:00,729 --> 01:13:01,630
I think that

1869
01:13:02,729 --> 01:13:05,310
it's a it's a platform that can combine

1870
01:13:05,369 --> 01:13:06,429
so many different

1871
01:13:06,890 --> 01:13:07,390
disciplines,

1872
01:13:09,005 --> 01:13:11,664
starting from plant science, chemistry,

1873
01:13:12,524 --> 01:13:13,024
biology,

1874
01:13:14,765 --> 01:13:15,425
of course,

1875
01:13:15,965 --> 01:13:17,024
medicine, pharmacology.

1876
01:13:18,125 --> 01:13:20,225
There are so many questions that

1877
01:13:21,164 --> 01:13:23,010
can be answered. And there is such a

1878
01:13:23,329 --> 01:13:25,329
big, huge potential to help,

1879
01:13:25,809 --> 01:13:26,630
other people,

1880
01:13:27,569 --> 01:13:30,369
by combining this discipline. So I I would

1881
01:13:30,369 --> 01:13:33,010
even advise people not to stick to only

1882
01:13:33,010 --> 01:13:36,389
one part of, the research, but to actually

1883
01:13:36,449 --> 01:13:39,135
combine. So look into the plant, see how

1884
01:13:39,135 --> 01:13:41,534
the plant does what it does, and then

1885
01:13:41,534 --> 01:13:43,635
try to go outside of the plant,

1886
01:13:44,974 --> 01:13:46,354
and also to test,

1887
01:13:47,215 --> 01:13:48,994
to understand what it does,

1888
01:13:49,694 --> 01:13:51,314
to humans so we can,

1889
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:54,020
push

1890
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,020
or use the plants

1891
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:57,619
for new

1892
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,220
drugs or new treatments or new medications.

1893
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,500
And I would also would

1894
01:14:04,875 --> 01:14:07,914
would suggest to that it's important to keep

1895
01:14:07,914 --> 01:14:10,234
in mind that, this is still in the

1896
01:14:10,234 --> 01:14:11,274
in the scientificcom

1897
01:14:11,755 --> 01:14:14,554
community. It's still considered a bit of a

1898
01:14:14,554 --> 01:14:15,054
controversial

1899
01:14:15,434 --> 01:14:15,934
subject.

1900
01:14:16,394 --> 01:14:18,175
So people that go into

1901
01:14:19,060 --> 01:14:21,159
studying cannabinoids need to be aware that,

1902
01:14:23,300 --> 01:14:26,420
sometimes we find people researchers that work in

1903
01:14:26,420 --> 01:14:27,400
this, field,

1904
01:14:27,939 --> 01:14:30,659
that that it has kind of a bad

1905
01:14:30,659 --> 01:14:31,159
reputation.

1906
01:14:32,260 --> 01:14:33,255
And it

1907
01:14:33,975 --> 01:14:36,614
it's sometimes hard to raise money for grants

1908
01:14:36,614 --> 01:14:40,074
or convince researchers that, what you're doing is

1909
01:14:40,135 --> 01:14:41,734
serious research and that,

1910
01:14:42,215 --> 01:14:44,135
also when you want to submit or to

1911
01:14:44,135 --> 01:14:45,675
publish, there are sometimes

1912
01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:49,810
journalists that don't look into cannabis or cannabinoid

1913
01:14:50,030 --> 01:14:50,530
research,

1914
01:14:52,430 --> 01:14:54,350
the the best way. So just to be

1915
01:14:54,350 --> 01:14:54,850
patient

1916
01:14:55,229 --> 01:14:55,729
and,

1917
01:14:58,885 --> 01:15:00,345
the potential is huge.

1918
01:15:01,445 --> 01:15:02,345
So good luck.

1919
01:15:02,805 --> 01:15:05,045
Very good. Well, thank you, doctor Berman. You

1920
01:15:05,045 --> 01:15:05,125
know,

1921
01:15:06,645 --> 01:15:10,345
we really appreciate when a scientist like yourself

1922
01:15:10,405 --> 01:15:11,064
who is

1923
01:15:11,364 --> 01:15:14,345
in deeply and on the front lines and

1924
01:15:14,539 --> 01:15:16,239
and not usually available

1925
01:15:16,699 --> 01:15:19,600
to, you know, just regular folks like us,

1926
01:15:20,219 --> 01:15:22,219
that you make the time to, you know,

1927
01:15:22,219 --> 01:15:24,300
come out of the lab and into the

1928
01:15:24,300 --> 01:15:26,539
daylight and talk to us so that we

1929
01:15:26,539 --> 01:15:27,039
can,

1930
01:15:27,579 --> 01:15:30,284
you know, encourage you and to and learn

1931
01:15:30,284 --> 01:15:33,265
what you're doing and to encourage, you know,

1932
01:15:34,525 --> 01:15:35,345
those who,

1933
01:15:36,364 --> 01:15:38,445
to who fund your research to fund more

1934
01:15:38,445 --> 01:15:40,704
of it. So so thank you for sharing

1935
01:15:40,925 --> 01:15:43,085
your time and your insight and your good

1936
01:15:43,085 --> 01:15:43,585
cheer,

1937
01:15:44,045 --> 01:15:45,780
with us so that we could,

1938
01:15:46,260 --> 01:15:48,600
learn more about this absolutely beautiful plant.

1939
01:15:48,979 --> 01:15:51,000
Thank you so much. Thank you for,

1940
01:15:51,380 --> 01:15:53,479
the questions. Thank you for the encouragement,

1941
01:15:54,420 --> 01:15:54,920
and

1942
01:15:56,835 --> 01:15:58,854
it's been a pleasure. Excellent.

1943
01:15:59,235 --> 01:16:01,655
So, dear listener, if you would like to,

1944
01:16:02,835 --> 01:16:05,875
keep up with doctor Berman, there are, two

1945
01:16:05,875 --> 01:16:07,015
ways to do that.

1946
01:16:07,635 --> 01:16:09,655
You can follow her on

1947
01:16:10,114 --> 01:16:10,614
LinkedIn,

1948
01:16:12,020 --> 01:16:12,520
and,

1949
01:16:13,140 --> 01:16:14,500
I believe that is as,

1950
01:16:15,060 --> 01:16:16,279
Paula Berman.

1951
01:16:16,899 --> 01:16:18,659
And then, if you have,

1952
01:16:19,380 --> 01:16:20,600
a science

1953
01:16:21,060 --> 01:16:21,560
specific

1954
01:16:22,100 --> 01:16:22,600
question,

1955
01:16:23,140 --> 01:16:25,859
you can reach doctor Berman through her email

1956
01:16:25,859 --> 01:16:27,159
address for the lab,

1957
01:16:27,555 --> 01:16:35,234
which is Berman s h. So bermansh@Gmail.com.

1958
01:16:35,234 --> 01:16:36,454
Very simple like that.

1959
01:16:36,994 --> 01:16:38,755
You can find more episodes of the Shaping

1960
01:16:38,755 --> 01:16:40,859
Fire podcast and subscribe to the show at

1961
01:16:40,939 --> 01:16:42,060
shapingfire.com

1962
01:16:42,060 --> 01:16:43,679
and wherever you get your podcasts.

1963
01:16:44,060 --> 01:16:45,899
If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate

1964
01:16:45,899 --> 01:16:47,340
it if you would leave a positive review

1965
01:16:47,340 --> 01:16:49,199
of the podcast wherever you download.

1966
01:16:49,579 --> 01:16:51,579
Your review will help others find the show

1967
01:16:51,579 --> 01:16:53,515
so they can enjoy it too. On the

1968
01:16:53,515 --> 01:16:55,755
Shaping Fire website, you can also subscribe to

1969
01:16:55,755 --> 01:16:58,314
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1970
01:16:58,314 --> 01:17:00,574
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1971
01:17:01,114 --> 01:17:02,875
On the Shaping Fire website, you will also

1972
01:17:02,875 --> 01:17:05,760
find transcripts of today's podcast as well. Be

1973
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,840
sure to follow on Instagram for all original

1974
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,699
content not found on the podcast.

1975
01:17:10,079 --> 01:17:12,880
That's at shaping fire and at shango lows

1976
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:13,539
on Instagram.

1977
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:15,840
Be sure to check out the ShapingFire YouTube

1978
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,640
channel for exclusive interviews, farm tours, and cannabis

1979
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:19,140
lectures.

1980
01:17:19,614 --> 01:17:21,774
Does your company wanna reach our national audience

1981
01:17:21,774 --> 01:17:23,074
of cannabis enthusiasts?

1982
01:17:23,534 --> 01:17:26,015
Email hotspot@shapingfire.com

1983
01:17:26,015 --> 01:17:28,095
to find out how. Thanks for listening to

1984
01:17:28,095 --> 01:17:31,155
Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.