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It doesn't matter who you are really.

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Modern life is stressful and causes various forms

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of anxiety in all of us.

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There are so many recommended actions we can

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take to help reduce that stress.

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Exercise, meditation,

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eating whole foods to keep our gut biome

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happy, and working directly to resolve the source

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of stress are all proven to work.

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Various pharmaceuticals come and go in popularity

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and supposedly help, but most are either

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or eventually debunked as ineffective.

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And then there's cannabis.

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Humans have been turning to cannabis for anxiety

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relief for 1000 of years. And there are

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several different ways that we can use cannabis

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to relieve stress and we will discuss several

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of them today.

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Today, we're going to focus on a brand

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new scientific study published just last week looking

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at the cannabinoid, cannabagirl,

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known as CBG,

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to reduce anxiety.

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And the results are truly remarkable and will

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absolutely influence the direction of anxiety medicine research

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going forward

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and how we as cannabis enthusiasts avoid anxiety

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too.

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If you want to learn about cannabis health

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cultivation and technique efficiently and with good cheer,

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I encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter.

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with commentary on a couple of the most

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important news items from the week and videos

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too.

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know when a new episode is published.

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Sign up for the updates to make sure

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You are listening to Shaping Fire, and I

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am your host, Shango Los.

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Welcome to episode 116.

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My guest today is doctor Ethan Russo.

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Ethan Russo is a board certified neurologist and

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former senior medical advisor to GW Pharmaceuticals.

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He has served as study physician to GW

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Pharmaceuticals

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for 3 phase three clinical trials of Sativex.

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He has held faculty appointments in pharmaceutical sciences

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at the University of Montana, in medicine at

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the University of Washington,

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and as visiting professor at the Chinese Academy

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of Sciences.

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He has been president of the International Cannabinoid

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Research Society

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and is former chairman of the International Association

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For Cannabinoid Medicines.

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In 1995,

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he pursued a 3 month sabbatical doing ethnobotanical

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research with indigenous people in Peru. He is

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author of several books of cannabis medicine and

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has published over 30 articles in neurology,

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pain management, cannabis and ethnobotany.

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He is presently founder of Kratoscience,

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where he works to formulate cannabis therapeutics for

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the good of all.

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Doctor Russo has joined us before on shaping

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fire several times.

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Episode 22 on treating traumatic brain injury with

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cannabis and mushrooms, and episodes 11 and 27

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about his famous research papers on cannabinoids and

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terpenoids.

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Episode number 67 about treating migraines with mushrooms

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and cannabis.

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Episode 80 on cannabinoid hyperemesis

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syndrome.

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Episode 83 on the cannabinoid CBG,

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episode

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103 regarding the life's work of doctor Rafael

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Mishulam,

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episode 110,

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taking a good look at Delta 8 THC,

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and of course the Shaping Fire sessions on

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the Shaping Fire YouTube channel.

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During the 1st set today, we will review

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what we know about CBG cannabigerol

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and look at the results of prior CBG

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studies.

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We will also discuss using isolate versus whole

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plant preparations during scientific research.

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In the second set, we will review the

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mechanics of the study and look pretty closely

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at the various ways participants were made to

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be anxious and the battery of skills test

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participants were given while anxious and using CBG.

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And during the 3rd set, we will look

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at the groundbreaking

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and really remarkable results from this study and

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compare using CBG to other cannabinoids like CBD

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and THC for reducing anxiety.

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Welcome back to Shaping Fire, doctor Russo.

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Well, it's good to be back with you.

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Excellent. So, Ethan, you know, why don't we

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do something new and why don't we start

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with

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giving some respect to your other co authors

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on this paper?

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Sure. Happy to do that.

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Well, this was led by doctor Kerry Cutler

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of Washington State University,

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who's an associate professor professor of psychology there

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and has done fantastic work

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on cannabis over the last several years.

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Also, her graduate student, Amanda Stuber,

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did a lot of the interviewing,

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for folks in the study.

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And, then Ziva Cooper, who's a professor at

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UCLA and heads the cannabis research program there.

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Fantastic. Thank you. You know, the more and

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more I get into the science side, in-depth

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in cannabis, the more I realize how important

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every single person on a paper is. And

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so I think I like this, and I

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think I'll I think we'll start plugging

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those other co authors as going forward. So

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thanks for that. So let's let's get started

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by creating a little bit of context for

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cannabagirl

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for folks who are relatively new to CBG

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as a cannabinoid.

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Now clearly, throughout this entire show, we're going

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to be talking about CBG in significant detail,

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but for the moment, would you just give

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us a general understanding of CBG as a

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cannabinoid?

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Yes. Happy to do that.

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So, let's go back to 1964.

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That was the year that Rafael Meshullam

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and Yechiel Ghayoni

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identified

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finally,

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THC, tetradrocannabinol,

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as the main psychoactive ingredient

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in cannabis. But that same year,

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they also discovered cannabagiol

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and were quite prescient

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in identifying

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it as a precursor

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to all the other

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major cannabinoids.

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So it it started there.

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Interestingly,

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all the attention was focused on THC.

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Cannabidiol,

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had been discovered

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or

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identified

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with clear

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ideas to its structure only the prior year

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in 1963.

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But because

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there was not this,

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overt psychoactivity

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to some of these other compounds,

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they got much less attention, and that was

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certainly the case

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with kinaabegirl.

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So there were some initial

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studies looking at what it did in animals,

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but,

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it really didn't get the attention it deserved

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for perhaps another

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30 years or more.

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What would have caused the interest in CBG

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to increase?

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Well, you know, along the line, people did

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take a look at,

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certain things.

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In the seventies, it was shown that,

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CBG

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is an uptake inhibitor for GABA,

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which is an inhibitory

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neurotransmitter.

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Why that is important is that it could

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account for

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muscle relaxant activity and certainly for some,

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activity

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as an antianxiety

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agent, which we'll certainly be talking about more.

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Additionally, in 2006,

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it was shown that,

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there was an antidepressant

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effect

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in tail suspension models

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in in rodents.

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Along the way,

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it was shown that there is a mild

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effect of CBG

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to lower blood pressure

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and also to lower intraocular

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pressure the way THC

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does, in glaucoma.

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Subsequently,

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during this interval,

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in the early 2000,

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there was a lot more investigation.

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Some of this was

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spearheaded,

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through support

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of GW Pharmaceuticals

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where I was working at the time.

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They had a

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program of selective breeding for the so called

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minor cannabinoids, and one of those

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was cannabageral.

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The chief breeder there,

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Atienda Meyer, actually developed a CBG only plant.

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And,

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so that there was a good bit of

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basic research going on.

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Among other things, it was shown that,

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CBG

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stimulates,

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several TRP channels,

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especially TRPM8.

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M is sort of like,

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is named for menthol.

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So this is a a temperature

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sensitive receptor.

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Trypmate is important because,

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certain tumors, especially

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prostate cancer

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and some,

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breast cancer lines,

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would be targets for this.

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Additionally,

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there it was shown that there were antibiotic

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effects,

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strong effects

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against

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methicillin resistant

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staphylococcus

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aureus.

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That was shown by Appendino et al.

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This is an important result,

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because at the time,

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there were all these hospital acquired infections and

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many deaths related to MRSA.

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So this remains in the area of great

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interest.

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So 2 of the big things were this,

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effect

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on certain cancers.

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And I should point out that CBG, like

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just about all the other cannabinoids,

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shows a a great selectivity

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in its ability to kill cancer cells

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while being preservative for normal cells.

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This is an important distinction because

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standard chemotherapy

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agents tend to be toxic to cells in

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general.

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So it's always an issue of, can you

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kill the tumor before you kill the patient

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or at least

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make them very sick in the process.

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So anybody who's been through chemotherapy

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or has a

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family member or friend that has is familiar

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with this concept.

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So with

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the cannabinoids, we have the prospect of

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having much more selective

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ability to kill cancer without producing

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overt toxicity.

283
00:11:02,929 --> 00:11:04,769
The study reminds us a couple of times

284
00:11:04,769 --> 00:11:08,769
that there are nearly no CBG studies that

285
00:11:08,769 --> 00:11:09,830
involve humans.

286
00:11:10,294 --> 00:11:11,975
And yet we know, you know, quite a

287
00:11:11,975 --> 00:11:15,335
bit about CBG and have pretty good ideas

288
00:11:15,335 --> 00:11:17,254
about other things we want to research in

289
00:11:17,254 --> 00:11:17,754
humans.

290
00:11:18,215 --> 00:11:19,754
It gives me kind of a vibe

291
00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:22,679
that there is a bit of a sea

292
00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,460
change as far as human research into CBG.

293
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,679
You know, as somebody who is doing this

294
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,384
research on the front lines,

295
00:11:30,764 --> 00:11:32,605
do you feel that as well that we're

296
00:11:32,605 --> 00:11:34,304
at a transition point where

297
00:11:35,485 --> 00:11:38,445
we're moving out of purely rodent studies and

298
00:11:38,445 --> 00:11:40,850
moving more and more into CBG,

299
00:11:41,709 --> 00:11:42,690
studies in humans?

300
00:11:43,230 --> 00:11:44,370
Yes. Quite true.

301
00:11:45,389 --> 00:11:46,769
So why is that?

302
00:11:47,309 --> 00:11:47,809
Again,

303
00:11:49,694 --> 00:11:52,014
for better or worse, there's been all this

304
00:11:52,014 --> 00:11:52,514
attention

305
00:11:52,975 --> 00:11:54,834
on THC. And then,

306
00:11:55,615 --> 00:11:57,634
starting about 15 years ago,

307
00:11:57,990 --> 00:12:00,470
CBD came to the fore mainly because of

308
00:12:00,470 --> 00:12:01,289
its utility

309
00:12:02,149 --> 00:12:03,049
in epilepsy,

310
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:05,754
which is well deserved. But,

311
00:12:06,475 --> 00:12:08,174
I think people would understand

312
00:12:08,634 --> 00:12:09,134
that,

313
00:12:10,394 --> 00:12:13,195
CBD has sort of peaked in terms of

314
00:12:13,195 --> 00:12:16,039
interest. That It it certainly is a very

315
00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:16,539
versatile

316
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,299
therapeutic molecule,

317
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:19,399
but,

318
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:21,899
perhaps it hasn't

319
00:12:22,715 --> 00:12:23,215
quite,

320
00:12:24,075 --> 00:12:24,975
panned out,

321
00:12:25,514 --> 00:12:26,975
from a business standpoint.

322
00:12:27,754 --> 00:12:30,095
That's certainly true for many companies.

323
00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:34,139
So it's pretty much everywhere, but,

324
00:12:35,079 --> 00:12:38,139
again, lost in the shuffle were other candidates,

325
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,500
particularly CBG.

326
00:12:40,279 --> 00:12:43,384
Now that has changed recently because certainly,

327
00:12:44,565 --> 00:12:46,504
on the West Coast of the US,

328
00:12:47,204 --> 00:12:49,464
there has been selective breeding again

329
00:12:50,139 --> 00:12:51,519
leading to CBG

330
00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:53,440
predominant or CBG

331
00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:54,320
only

332
00:12:54,860 --> 00:12:56,320
chemo bars of cannabis.

333
00:12:57,899 --> 00:12:59,815
This really started in the northwest,

334
00:13:00,195 --> 00:13:01,975
particularly with Oregon CBD.

335
00:13:04,595 --> 00:13:05,334
And slowly,

336
00:13:06,514 --> 00:13:07,014
CBG

337
00:13:07,429 --> 00:13:10,250
interest and breeding has diffused

338
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:12,710
to the rest of the United States and

339
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:13,690
around the world.

340
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:16,250
So along the line,

341
00:13:16,964 --> 00:13:17,944
along the way,

342
00:13:18,884 --> 00:13:21,225
certainly, there've been a lot of people, particularly

343
00:13:21,284 --> 00:13:23,845
in the northwest US that have been using

344
00:13:23,845 --> 00:13:24,345
CBG

345
00:13:24,725 --> 00:13:26,424
for some years now.

346
00:13:27,659 --> 00:13:30,320
And so we have their what we'll call

347
00:13:30,539 --> 00:13:33,279
what the scientists call anecdotal experience,

348
00:13:33,899 --> 00:13:34,399
what

349
00:13:34,745 --> 00:13:36,684
patients and consumers report,

350
00:13:37,384 --> 00:13:40,285
but it's only recently that there have been

351
00:13:40,345 --> 00:13:42,285
the formal clinical studies,

352
00:13:43,549 --> 00:13:45,789
and we'd like to think that we've been

353
00:13:45,789 --> 00:13:47,570
at the forefront of that,

354
00:13:48,190 --> 00:13:49,250
with our survey

355
00:13:49,950 --> 00:13:50,450
study

356
00:13:50,975 --> 00:13:52,674
that was published in 2021.

357
00:13:53,215 --> 00:13:53,955
And now

358
00:13:54,495 --> 00:13:56,115
this, which was the first

359
00:13:56,735 --> 00:13:57,794
study to

360
00:13:58,470 --> 00:14:00,970
examine in a randomized controlled trial

361
00:14:01,429 --> 00:14:03,850
the effect of CBG on anxiety.

362
00:14:04,549 --> 00:14:06,230
I have to agree with you, Ethan, that

363
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:09,745
it is no small impact that the CBG

364
00:14:10,125 --> 00:14:11,725
dominant cultivars from,

365
00:14:12,845 --> 00:14:15,264
Seth and Eric Crawford there at Oregon CBD

366
00:14:15,404 --> 00:14:18,100
down in Albany, Oregon has really made a

367
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:20,820
difference here in the Pacific Northwest because up

368
00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:23,159
until their CBG dominant cultivar,

369
00:14:23,914 --> 00:14:25,534
mostly, we were getting CBG

370
00:14:26,075 --> 00:14:26,575
in,

371
00:14:27,514 --> 00:14:31,059
THC dominant cultivars, and it's really hard to

372
00:14:31,059 --> 00:14:31,559
tell

373
00:14:32,019 --> 00:14:34,820
anything either in a controlled study or just

374
00:14:34,820 --> 00:14:35,320
anecdotally

375
00:14:35,779 --> 00:14:38,580
when THC is the primary ingredient. But when

376
00:14:38,580 --> 00:14:39,240
you can

377
00:14:39,674 --> 00:14:42,574
strip that out and make a CBG dominant

378
00:14:42,634 --> 00:14:43,995
hemp cultivar where,

379
00:14:45,274 --> 00:14:47,294
you know, it's nearly entirely CBG,

380
00:14:47,809 --> 00:14:50,629
This opens up not only the ability for,

381
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:53,970
that plant material to find its way to

382
00:14:53,970 --> 00:14:56,945
research scientists like you, but also it really

383
00:14:56,945 --> 00:14:58,725
gives a lot of strength to

384
00:14:59,105 --> 00:15:01,424
what, you know, some call anecdotal evidence, some

385
00:15:01,424 --> 00:15:02,725
call citizen science.

386
00:15:03,105 --> 00:15:05,445
The whole idea that it gets its hand,

387
00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:08,139
CBG gets itself into the hands of caregivers

388
00:15:08,759 --> 00:15:09,419
who are

389
00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:12,379
who don't really have the same constraints as

390
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,634
legitimate science do. And so a lot of

391
00:15:15,634 --> 00:15:16,855
the initial,

392
00:15:17,715 --> 00:15:19,475
you know, grunt work about what we should

393
00:15:19,475 --> 00:15:20,855
even look for can happen.

394
00:15:21,235 --> 00:15:23,254
And I'm really grateful for

395
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,460
those, you know, single

396
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,800
cannabinoid dominant cultivars and hopefully, we'll continue to

397
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,759
be seeing more of them,

398
00:15:30,879 --> 00:15:32,355
Doctor. Darrell Bock Yes. Certainly.

399
00:15:33,214 --> 00:15:35,154
You know, this is the kind of selective

400
00:15:35,455 --> 00:15:37,455
breeding that took place at,

401
00:15:38,254 --> 00:15:39,315
GW Pharmaceuticals,

402
00:15:39,934 --> 00:15:40,434
unfortunately,

403
00:15:40,975 --> 00:15:41,475
because

404
00:15:42,159 --> 00:15:43,299
there was a concentration

405
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:46,259
on development of Sativex and Epidiolex,

406
00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:50,085
CBG, again, never got

407
00:15:50,565 --> 00:15:52,264
into clinical trials,

408
00:15:52,804 --> 00:15:54,105
despite the availability

409
00:15:54,485 --> 00:15:57,065
of the CBG only chemo Var,

410
00:15:57,524 --> 00:16:00,570
clear back, you know, in the early 2000.

411
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:03,350
So it's just one of those things that

412
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:04,809
got lost in the shuffle.

413
00:16:05,149 --> 00:16:05,649
You

414
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:07,670
know, you may not be able to speak

415
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:09,769
to this, and and and my my

416
00:16:10,134 --> 00:16:12,534
awareness might not even be true, but it

417
00:16:12,534 --> 00:16:14,934
seems to me that there's probably a whole

418
00:16:14,934 --> 00:16:17,754
bunch of really interesting cultivars at GW

419
00:16:18,339 --> 00:16:20,100
that just like you said, kind of got

420
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:22,600
lost in the mix. And it isn't until

421
00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:24,200
similar cultivars

422
00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:28,144
are rebred in the public that we see

423
00:16:28,144 --> 00:16:29,504
a lot of those because most of the

424
00:16:29,504 --> 00:16:30,644
pharmaceutical companies

425
00:16:31,665 --> 00:16:33,924
defend that cherished IP, I would assume.

426
00:16:34,705 --> 00:16:35,205
Right.

427
00:16:36,669 --> 00:16:39,629
So, you know, you've been researching CBG for

428
00:16:39,629 --> 00:16:41,070
years and you and I have been talking

429
00:16:41,070 --> 00:16:43,970
about it for years now. And this particular

430
00:16:44,190 --> 00:16:45,009
study, though,

431
00:16:45,924 --> 00:16:47,924
it seems like it's a direct follow-up to

432
00:16:47,924 --> 00:16:50,085
another one that you did just a couple

433
00:16:50,085 --> 00:16:52,804
years back again with Doctor. Kerry Cutler at

434
00:16:52,804 --> 00:16:54,184
Washington State University.

435
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:57,110
A bit more of a general study but

436
00:16:57,110 --> 00:17:00,230
it absolutely sets this one up. Would you

437
00:17:00,230 --> 00:17:02,764
summarize that study and its results so that

438
00:17:02,764 --> 00:17:04,525
we can all have a better picture of

439
00:17:04,525 --> 00:17:06,224
what we're building on top of?

440
00:17:06,924 --> 00:17:08,464
Sure. So at that time,

441
00:17:08,845 --> 00:17:11,039
we weren't in in a position yet to

442
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:12,900
do a randomized controlled trial.

443
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,100
1st,

444
00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:18,500
I thought that we really needed a survey,

445
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:20,340
a decent survey

446
00:17:20,945 --> 00:17:23,845
of what people were reporting with CBG,

447
00:17:25,424 --> 00:17:25,924
preparations,

448
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:30,329
to lend some credence to the idea

449
00:17:30,869 --> 00:17:33,849
that, number 1, this could be used therapeutically.

450
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:37,924
Number 2, that there weren't any associated problems.

451
00:17:38,785 --> 00:17:40,325
So we initiated

452
00:17:40,865 --> 00:17:42,325
a survey study

453
00:17:42,865 --> 00:17:44,484
and had a 127

454
00:17:45,345 --> 00:17:45,845
folks

455
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:46,940
that,

456
00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:51,339
the stipulation

457
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,180
was they had to be adults

458
00:17:53,714 --> 00:17:56,054
and they had to be using a preparation

459
00:17:56,115 --> 00:17:57,254
that was at least

460
00:17:57,794 --> 00:17:58,294
50%

461
00:17:58,674 --> 00:17:59,174
CBG.

462
00:18:00,194 --> 00:18:01,920
So that was a mixed,

463
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,200
sort of sample. Some of the people were

464
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,299
using CBG only products,

465
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:09,380
but a a lot of them,

466
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:10,580
were

467
00:18:11,914 --> 00:18:14,494
CBG with THC. And as you mentioned,

468
00:18:15,035 --> 00:18:15,775
that creates

469
00:18:16,075 --> 00:18:17,214
a few complications,

470
00:18:18,154 --> 00:18:20,555
but, for the most part, we got some

471
00:18:20,555 --> 00:18:22,150
very useful information.

472
00:18:24,529 --> 00:18:25,029
So,

473
00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:28,289
Yeah. Let's let's talk about what people saw.

474
00:18:28,289 --> 00:18:29,394
Mhmm. 1st,

475
00:18:30,974 --> 00:18:32,754
what I expected was,

476
00:18:33,214 --> 00:18:35,534
something we did see that a lot of

477
00:18:35,534 --> 00:18:37,900
people were using it for the big 3,

478
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:39,680
which are treatment of pain,

479
00:18:40,059 --> 00:18:41,680
help with sleep, and,

480
00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:43,200
mood, particularly,

481
00:18:45,394 --> 00:18:45,894
anxiety.

482
00:18:46,674 --> 00:18:49,174
So these are the same things for which

483
00:18:49,555 --> 00:18:51,815
many people turn to cannabis,

484
00:18:52,970 --> 00:18:54,430
of one type or another.

485
00:18:55,289 --> 00:18:57,309
But when we started asking

486
00:18:58,009 --> 00:19:00,890
about conditions that people were treating, we got

487
00:19:00,890 --> 00:19:03,164
a list of 30 different conditions.

488
00:19:04,024 --> 00:19:06,204
And what was really surprising was,

489
00:19:07,065 --> 00:19:09,325
people reported that the CBG

490
00:19:09,625 --> 00:19:10,125
preparations

491
00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:13,470
were highly effective and often

492
00:19:14,089 --> 00:19:17,609
much more so than conventional medicines that they'd

493
00:19:17,609 --> 00:19:19,150
use for the same purposes.

494
00:19:20,664 --> 00:19:21,565
And we got,

495
00:19:22,265 --> 00:19:23,164
very highly

496
00:19:23,945 --> 00:19:24,445
statistical

497
00:19:25,305 --> 00:19:28,365
significance with claims of benefit on pain,

498
00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:30,019
sleep,

499
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:31,299
anxiety,

500
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,179
but also for some hardcore

501
00:19:36,214 --> 00:19:37,115
medical conditions

502
00:19:37,575 --> 00:19:38,075
like,

503
00:19:38,855 --> 00:19:39,355
inflammatory

504
00:19:39,815 --> 00:19:40,634
bowel disease,

505
00:19:41,974 --> 00:19:42,474
endometriosis.

506
00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:45,970
Now some of the numbers weren't big on

507
00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:46,869
those specifics,

508
00:19:47,170 --> 00:19:47,910
but when

509
00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:50,529
3 quarters of the people are saying that

510
00:19:50,529 --> 00:19:52,690
this is the best medicine that they've ever

511
00:19:52,690 --> 00:19:53,190
used,

512
00:19:54,045 --> 00:19:55,025
for their condition,

513
00:19:55,644 --> 00:19:56,224
you know,

514
00:19:56,525 --> 00:19:59,345
it is creating a sync signal that deserves

515
00:19:59,404 --> 00:19:59,904
attention.

516
00:20:01,570 --> 00:20:02,869
Now at the same time,

517
00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:06,309
people were really not

518
00:20:06,690 --> 00:20:09,109
reporting side effects to speak of.

519
00:20:09,434 --> 00:20:12,014
Some people reported dry mouth, sleepiness,

520
00:20:12,315 --> 00:20:13,934
increased appetite, but

521
00:20:14,315 --> 00:20:16,174
certainly that would suggest

522
00:20:16,980 --> 00:20:20,039
that those were preparations that had some THC,

523
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:21,960
in them.

524
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:25,674
And this is borne out subsequently when we

525
00:20:25,674 --> 00:20:26,174
looked

526
00:20:26,555 --> 00:20:27,055
specifically

527
00:20:27,835 --> 00:20:30,575
just a a CBG only preparation.

528
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:31,960
Similarly,

529
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:33,740
in this survey,

530
00:20:35,559 --> 00:20:36,059
84%

531
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,775
reported no withdrawal symptoms when they stopped.

532
00:20:41,055 --> 00:20:42,355
So, you know,

533
00:20:43,375 --> 00:20:46,434
our conclusions were, first, this was the

534
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:50,070
first study that really looked at therapeutic use

535
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:51,930
of of CBG in humans.

536
00:20:53,269 --> 00:20:53,769
Again,

537
00:20:54,315 --> 00:20:57,595
anxiety, pain, depression, and insomnia were the most

538
00:20:57,595 --> 00:20:59,774
commonly reported target symptoms,

539
00:21:00,315 --> 00:21:03,294
and people reported a very high efficacy

540
00:21:04,269 --> 00:21:04,750
with,

541
00:21:05,230 --> 00:21:08,049
no adverse events to speak of.

542
00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:12,109
And, you know, the the main thing was

543
00:21:12,109 --> 00:21:14,384
we thought that this is a good indicator

544
00:21:15,164 --> 00:21:18,444
that CBG would be safe for future randomized

545
00:21:18,444 --> 00:21:19,505
controlled trials.

546
00:21:21,369 --> 00:21:24,009
Now we were immediately interested in taking this

547
00:21:24,009 --> 00:21:26,089
forward, but it it took a good long

548
00:21:26,089 --> 00:21:26,589
time,

549
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:29,470
as these things often do.

550
00:21:30,555 --> 00:21:32,654
Recruitment for the new study,

551
00:21:33,674 --> 00:21:34,414
which was

552
00:21:35,035 --> 00:21:36,255
again a randomized

553
00:21:36,555 --> 00:21:37,615
controlled trial

554
00:21:38,349 --> 00:21:39,410
of a CBG

555
00:21:39,789 --> 00:21:41,890
only chemo Var extract,

556
00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:45,809
and its effect on anxiety.

557
00:21:46,990 --> 00:21:49,355
This took a while to recruit. It it

558
00:21:49,355 --> 00:21:50,894
was confined to

559
00:21:51,355 --> 00:21:53,615
people in Washington state because,

560
00:21:53,994 --> 00:21:55,454
that's what the institutional

561
00:21:55,755 --> 00:21:56,734
review board

562
00:21:57,279 --> 00:21:57,779
wanted.

563
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:58,660
But

564
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:02,980
it it came together nicely.

565
00:22:05,464 --> 00:22:06,984
So why don't I stop there for a

566
00:22:06,984 --> 00:22:08,904
second and see if you have an interim

567
00:22:08,904 --> 00:22:10,984
question because I could just go on and

568
00:22:10,984 --> 00:22:12,585
on. Sure. Sure. Sure. So,

569
00:22:13,224 --> 00:22:15,769
I find it interesting that it was

570
00:22:16,309 --> 00:22:16,809
challenging

571
00:22:17,349 --> 00:22:19,430
to recruit for this study. I mean, not

572
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:21,750
only were you limited to Washington, which has

573
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:24,085
got its own challenges as since you've got

574
00:22:24,085 --> 00:22:25,224
a national audience,

575
00:22:25,525 --> 00:22:27,865
but even more so after reading the study,

576
00:22:28,964 --> 00:22:29,865
I can imagine

577
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:32,839
that it may have been challenging to find

578
00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:33,339
people

579
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,019
who met your stipulations

580
00:22:35,399 --> 00:22:35,899
because

581
00:22:36,679 --> 00:22:38,779
in one hand, for somebody to be open

582
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:42,204
to participating in a cannabis study, they need

583
00:22:42,204 --> 00:22:43,664
to be open to cannabis.

584
00:22:44,204 --> 00:22:44,865
But then

585
00:22:45,325 --> 00:22:47,505
the study required for them

586
00:22:47,805 --> 00:22:48,305
to

587
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,599
not be using cannabis or any other

588
00:22:53,299 --> 00:22:55,779
illicit drugs during, I think it was a

589
00:22:55,779 --> 00:22:57,079
2 or 3 month window.

590
00:22:58,394 --> 00:23:01,495
And so many people, you know, were they

591
00:23:01,674 --> 00:23:03,355
may have had cannabis or they may have

592
00:23:03,355 --> 00:23:04,095
been microdosing

593
00:23:04,634 --> 00:23:05,755
or may have done a lot of things.

594
00:23:05,755 --> 00:23:06,029
So

595
00:23:06,990 --> 00:23:09,230
this actually continues to make the pool of

596
00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:12,750
people possible much smaller, right? Well, that's a

597
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:14,769
problem in general. In this instance,

598
00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:16,644
we ask that people

599
00:23:17,025 --> 00:23:17,845
not use

600
00:23:18,224 --> 00:23:18,724
cannabis,

601
00:23:19,984 --> 00:23:22,164
for 24 hours. Oh, alright.

602
00:23:22,785 --> 00:23:25,424
So, you know, in some studies, they're much

603
00:23:25,424 --> 00:23:27,039
more stringent about that.

604
00:23:27,839 --> 00:23:31,539
We also wanted people that were cannabis familiar,

605
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:33,315
but not

606
00:23:33,714 --> 00:23:34,214
necessarily

607
00:23:34,595 --> 00:23:35,575
heavy users.

608
00:23:37,315 --> 00:23:37,815
So,

609
00:23:39,474 --> 00:23:41,575
and That's that's walking a line right there.

610
00:23:42,034 --> 00:23:43,619
Well, sure. You know,

611
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,019
there are always exclusion criteria.

612
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,720
We wanted to exclude people that might have

613
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,525
felt that they had used CBG before and

614
00:23:53,525 --> 00:23:54,664
had a bad reaction.

615
00:23:55,525 --> 00:23:56,664
They couldn't use,

616
00:23:58,005 --> 00:24:00,265
harder drugs within 2 months.

617
00:24:01,369 --> 00:24:04,429
They couldn't have a serious psychic psychiatric

618
00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:06,109
condition like schizophrenia

619
00:24:06,890 --> 00:24:07,710
or bipolarity.

620
00:24:08,890 --> 00:24:11,054
They couldn't be pregnant or breastfeeding,

621
00:24:11,914 --> 00:24:13,855
and they couldn't have any chronic

622
00:24:14,394 --> 00:24:14,894
neurologic

623
00:24:15,274 --> 00:24:15,774
disorder

624
00:24:16,075 --> 00:24:17,454
or history of

625
00:24:17,835 --> 00:24:19,534
a a serious head injury.

626
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:24,109
So, I mean, those were the

627
00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:25,630
the kinds of things.

628
00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:27,950
And,

629
00:24:29,345 --> 00:24:30,244
oh, they also,

630
00:24:30,705 --> 00:24:32,484
had to be fluent in English.

631
00:24:32,945 --> 00:24:35,505
They had to have a smartphone because one

632
00:24:35,505 --> 00:24:36,549
of the tests was

633
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:38,650
done on an app,

634
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:40,090
on a smartphone.

635
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:42,809
And as mentioned previously,

636
00:24:43,884 --> 00:24:46,125
just in Washington state, so there were no

637
00:24:46,125 --> 00:24:47,184
issues about

638
00:24:47,805 --> 00:24:49,025
shipping product

639
00:24:49,325 --> 00:24:50,625
over state lines,

640
00:24:51,085 --> 00:24:51,900
that might have

641
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:53,759
attracted federal

642
00:24:54,140 --> 00:24:55,839
interest, let's say. Yeah.

643
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:57,500
Well, there was,

644
00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:59,660
I I found it interesting because, you know,

645
00:24:59,660 --> 00:25:01,285
when you reached out that that you were

646
00:25:01,285 --> 00:25:02,884
going to be working on this study, I

647
00:25:02,884 --> 00:25:05,765
was excited to participate. And then I didn't

648
00:25:05,765 --> 00:25:08,184
get through the first sifting process because

649
00:25:10,609 --> 00:25:13,889
my association with cannabis and other influences were

650
00:25:13,889 --> 00:25:15,569
far too high for the study. But I

651
00:25:15,569 --> 00:25:18,095
am happy to say that we let Shaping

652
00:25:18,095 --> 00:25:22,034
Fire users or not users, Shaping Fire listeners

653
00:25:22,815 --> 00:25:24,514
know about the study and

654
00:25:25,054 --> 00:25:26,500
you have some of them in your study.

655
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:27,640
So thanks to everybody

656
00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:29,640
who chose to participate.

657
00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:31,160
So

658
00:25:31,619 --> 00:25:32,519
we talked about

659
00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:35,779
the baseline study that you did with Doctor.

660
00:25:35,779 --> 00:25:36,279
Cutler

661
00:25:36,795 --> 00:25:39,914
over there at Washington State University that laid

662
00:25:39,914 --> 00:25:40,734
down the base.

663
00:25:41,035 --> 00:25:43,674
And so then you worked with Doctor. Cutler

664
00:25:43,674 --> 00:25:45,775
to design this new study.

665
00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:48,960
What were the objectives for this new study?

666
00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:52,299
Doctor. Darrell Bock It was, again, to see

667
00:25:52,299 --> 00:25:52,799
if

668
00:25:53,964 --> 00:25:56,464
in a sort of manufactured

669
00:25:57,724 --> 00:25:58,224
situation

670
00:25:58,684 --> 00:26:02,359
creating anxiety that we could show that CPG

671
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,700
made a difference in compared to placebo.

672
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,500
And I I just wanted to go back,

673
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,940
for a second

674
00:26:09,585 --> 00:26:10,085
to,

675
00:26:11,025 --> 00:26:11,845
the demographics

676
00:26:12,304 --> 00:26:12,785
of,

677
00:26:13,585 --> 00:26:15,204
people's cannabis use,

678
00:26:15,904 --> 00:26:17,204
because this is important.

679
00:26:17,869 --> 00:26:18,929
A lot of studies,

680
00:26:20,429 --> 00:26:22,769
you know, for instance, in the survey, obviously,

681
00:26:22,990 --> 00:26:24,849
wanted people that had used CBG

682
00:26:25,150 --> 00:26:25,650
before.

683
00:26:26,909 --> 00:26:27,454
In this

684
00:26:28,255 --> 00:26:30,575
one, it we hope that we'd get some

685
00:26:30,575 --> 00:26:34,255
people that never used CBG and, because this

686
00:26:34,255 --> 00:26:35,234
is really important.

687
00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:38,130
What's the reaction of it to somebody that's

688
00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:39,349
never had it before?

689
00:26:39,809 --> 00:26:41,190
So as it turned out,

690
00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:42,150
65%

691
00:26:43,285 --> 00:26:46,005
of the people in the study, which was

692
00:26:46,005 --> 00:26:46,505
34,

693
00:26:47,365 --> 00:26:49,945
had no prior experience using cannabagiol.

694
00:26:51,539 --> 00:26:54,180
Again, all had been cannabis users in the

695
00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:54,680
past.

696
00:26:56,019 --> 00:26:58,500
The average was about 3 and a half

697
00:26:58,500 --> 00:26:59,480
days a week

698
00:27:00,095 --> 00:27:01,795
or 18 days a month.

699
00:27:02,335 --> 00:27:04,115
Okay. But with that in mind,

700
00:27:05,535 --> 00:27:06,434
you know, again,

701
00:27:07,535 --> 00:27:08,434
what were the

702
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:11,210
what was the premise of the study?

703
00:27:12,629 --> 00:27:15,049
Well, I'll just read from the purpose.

704
00:27:15,589 --> 00:27:19,049
To examine the acute effects of hemp derived

705
00:27:19,414 --> 00:27:19,914
CBG

706
00:27:20,535 --> 00:27:21,434
on anxiety,

707
00:27:21,975 --> 00:27:23,275
stress, mood,

708
00:27:23,735 --> 00:27:26,795
and memory, as well as positive and negative

709
00:27:27,335 --> 00:27:27,835
subjective

710
00:27:28,295 --> 00:27:30,059
drug effects in humans.

711
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:32,920
And the design is what's called a double

712
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,900
blind, meaning

713
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,779
patients and the administers

714
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:37,795
of,

715
00:27:38,195 --> 00:27:40,595
this didn't know who was getting what at

716
00:27:40,595 --> 00:27:41,255
the time.

717
00:27:41,634 --> 00:27:45,494
Placebo controlled, that means that on one occasion,

718
00:27:45,715 --> 00:27:47,095
people got the CBG

719
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:48,240
preparation.

720
00:27:48,859 --> 00:27:50,080
On another occasion,

721
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:51,840
they got a placebo,

722
00:27:53,019 --> 00:27:55,599
and it was called a crossover study because

723
00:27:56,945 --> 00:27:58,805
they had to take both,

724
00:27:59,505 --> 00:28:00,724
in separate trials.

725
00:28:01,265 --> 00:28:03,525
And it's called a field trial because,

726
00:28:04,659 --> 00:28:05,559
this is done

727
00:28:06,099 --> 00:28:07,000
over Zoom

728
00:28:07,779 --> 00:28:09,960
with patients in their home environment.

729
00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:11,960
And

730
00:28:14,975 --> 00:28:18,015
someone asking the questions on the other end

731
00:28:18,015 --> 00:28:19,795
at Washington State University.

732
00:28:20,769 --> 00:28:22,069
I can imagine that,

733
00:28:22,849 --> 00:28:25,490
asking people their questions at home actually gets

734
00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:26,549
rid of an entire

735
00:28:27,410 --> 00:28:27,910
layer

736
00:28:28,404 --> 00:28:30,505
of anxiety related questions

737
00:28:30,965 --> 00:28:33,144
that that you don't have to do anymore

738
00:28:33,285 --> 00:28:35,605
since people are often made to feel anxious

739
00:28:35,605 --> 00:28:37,225
just by coming into a facility.

740
00:28:37,779 --> 00:28:39,880
Right. That's called white coat anxiety.

741
00:28:40,259 --> 00:28:42,259
Oh. And we use that to advantage. Wait.

742
00:28:42,259 --> 00:28:44,440
Wait. Wait. Did you say white coat anxiety?

743
00:28:44,740 --> 00:28:46,980
Yeah. That's so that's aptly named. Okay. Go

744
00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:49,914
ahead. Sure. We use that to advantage though

745
00:28:49,914 --> 00:28:52,875
because, part of the testing was I mean,

746
00:28:52,875 --> 00:28:54,255
some of this is diabolical.

747
00:28:54,714 --> 00:28:56,815
How did we make people anxious?

748
00:28:58,059 --> 00:28:59,839
Well, one of the things was,

749
00:29:01,819 --> 00:29:04,160
they were told that they had 5 minutes

750
00:29:04,794 --> 00:29:05,535
to prepare,

751
00:29:06,954 --> 00:29:07,934
to say,

752
00:29:09,115 --> 00:29:11,994
what their ideal job would be and how

753
00:29:11,994 --> 00:29:13,775
they were qualified for it.

754
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:14,880
And,

755
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,080
you know, they were expected to talk this

756
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,019
whole time. And if they stop talking,

757
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:21,380
they would

758
00:29:22,414 --> 00:29:23,615
be prompted to continue.

759
00:29:25,134 --> 00:29:25,535
And,

760
00:29:27,535 --> 00:29:28,355
the examiner

761
00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:32,829
did a thing of starting out in civilian

762
00:29:32,889 --> 00:29:35,049
clothing and then coming back in a white

763
00:29:35,049 --> 00:29:35,549
coat.

764
00:29:36,009 --> 00:29:37,929
And then there was a thing of a

765
00:29:37,929 --> 00:29:38,429
calculation.

766
00:29:39,125 --> 00:29:39,625
Usually,

767
00:29:41,125 --> 00:29:42,424
the usual calculation

768
00:29:42,884 --> 00:29:45,924
when you're testing someone cognitively is to track

769
00:29:46,325 --> 00:29:46,825
subtract

770
00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:48,279
7 from 100.

771
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:50,039
This is much worse.

772
00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:52,759
It started with a very high number subtracting

773
00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:53,640
17,

774
00:29:54,580 --> 00:29:55,080
and

775
00:29:55,484 --> 00:29:57,644
every time a mistake was made, they were

776
00:29:57,644 --> 00:29:59,505
told to go back to the beginning.

777
00:30:00,684 --> 00:30:02,839
So these are the diabolical effective

778
00:30:05,952 --> 00:30:06,452
they

779
00:30:09,884 --> 00:30:12,204
effective they are for being so gentle, right?

780
00:30:12,204 --> 00:30:14,605
Because you're not actually putting them under threat,

781
00:30:14,605 --> 00:30:16,605
but it sure can feel like it. And

782
00:30:16,605 --> 00:30:18,349
we'll be talking more about those in the

783
00:30:18,349 --> 00:30:20,589
second set too because this battery of tests

784
00:30:20,589 --> 00:30:21,650
that you gave people

785
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:23,490
were something else.

786
00:30:24,269 --> 00:30:26,529
For this set, let's finish with this though.

787
00:30:26,765 --> 00:30:28,065
You know, most studies

788
00:30:28,924 --> 00:30:31,265
that are happening on cannabis nowadays,

789
00:30:31,565 --> 00:30:33,585
they default to using isolate.

790
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:36,980
Even though I prefer whole resin,

791
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:40,179
most studies are using isolate because

792
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:41,674
it is

793
00:30:42,235 --> 00:30:45,195
just one specific molecule instead of being the

794
00:30:45,195 --> 00:30:47,755
cannabis resin which has got lots of components

795
00:30:47,755 --> 00:30:48,414
in it.

796
00:30:48,955 --> 00:30:50,894
And yet we know that

797
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:53,359
generally speaking,

798
00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:54,720
using resin

799
00:30:55,099 --> 00:30:56,559
offers better benefits

800
00:30:56,940 --> 00:30:59,840
from isolate which has got its own problems.

801
00:31:00,355 --> 00:31:03,075
Why did you choose to go with a

802
00:31:03,075 --> 00:31:03,974
whole plant,

803
00:31:04,355 --> 00:31:04,855
CBG

804
00:31:05,234 --> 00:31:05,734
dominant

805
00:31:06,194 --> 00:31:08,855
resin solution in the tincture for the study

806
00:31:09,309 --> 00:31:11,170
instead of going with isolate,

807
00:31:11,549 --> 00:31:15,150
which is probably more easily available and also

808
00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:15,650
is

809
00:31:16,085 --> 00:31:17,865
you know, what all your peers in pharmaceuticals

810
00:31:18,644 --> 00:31:19,305
are doing?

811
00:31:19,684 --> 00:31:21,944
Well, we wanted real world experience.

812
00:31:22,724 --> 00:31:23,625
Now, again,

813
00:31:24,244 --> 00:31:25,990
this the study

814
00:31:26,529 --> 00:31:29,890
drug was a CPG extract that has been

815
00:31:29,890 --> 00:31:31,829
used by a good number of people,

816
00:31:32,690 --> 00:31:34,149
in the Pacific Northwest.

817
00:31:35,335 --> 00:31:37,575
So we knew a little bit about what

818
00:31:37,575 --> 00:31:39,195
to expect from it.

819
00:31:39,654 --> 00:31:41,035
That was a big advantage.

820
00:31:41,654 --> 00:31:43,115
We definitely wanted,

821
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:45,859
CBG only preparation

822
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,500
to the extent that there'd be no THC,

823
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:50,019
no significant

824
00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:53,424
amount of CBD or other cannabinoids.

825
00:31:54,284 --> 00:31:55,184
And in fact,

826
00:31:56,764 --> 00:32:00,019
each milliliter of the study drug had 10

827
00:32:00,019 --> 00:32:01,400
milligrams of CPG,

828
00:32:02,419 --> 00:32:03,960
a little bit of CBGA.

829
00:32:05,539 --> 00:32:08,095
There were barely any THC,

830
00:32:08,634 --> 00:32:09,134
point

831
00:32:10,234 --> 00:32:12,335
0 1 milligrams of THC,

832
00:32:13,274 --> 00:32:14,575
and the only significant

833
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,539
was 0.35

834
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,380
milligrams of caryophylline,

835
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,460
which we don't expect to be overtly

836
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:23,580
psychoactive.

837
00:32:24,815 --> 00:32:25,954
So each person

838
00:32:27,134 --> 00:32:29,154
in the study drug,

839
00:32:29,855 --> 00:32:30,355
set,

840
00:32:31,294 --> 00:32:32,660
got 2 milliliters

841
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,100
of this material in a glass of water.

842
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,299
So that was 20 milligrams of CBG and

843
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:40,580
not a lot,

844
00:32:41,384 --> 00:32:41,884
else.

845
00:32:42,345 --> 00:32:45,224
Now it was a real challenge to figure

846
00:32:45,224 --> 00:32:46,444
out a placebo.

847
00:32:47,304 --> 00:32:50,505
So the placebo would be something that wouldn't

848
00:32:50,505 --> 00:32:51,789
be psychoactive

849
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:53,789
to any great extent,

850
00:32:54,890 --> 00:32:57,309
but it it should look like

851
00:32:57,610 --> 00:33:00,715
the study drug and and have a taste,

852
00:33:01,174 --> 00:33:01,674
that

853
00:33:02,215 --> 00:33:04,235
might be hard to tell apart. So

854
00:33:05,414 --> 00:33:07,914
I wracked my brain. This was

855
00:33:08,259 --> 00:33:10,519
part of my contribution to this study.

856
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:14,019
What can we use that would have this

857
00:33:14,019 --> 00:33:14,519
effect?

858
00:33:15,859 --> 00:33:16,359
So

859
00:33:16,734 --> 00:33:19,234
I wondered, how about an herbal preparation,

860
00:33:20,095 --> 00:33:22,755
but one that wouldn't have cannabinoids in it?

861
00:33:23,134 --> 00:33:23,634
And,

862
00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:26,419
we want something that's sort of green,

863
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,500
like the the study drug.

864
00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:31,734
So I I thought about the liqueur chartreuse.

865
00:33:31,815 --> 00:33:32,315
Chartreuse.

866
00:33:33,174 --> 00:33:35,575
For people who don't know chartreuse is,

867
00:33:37,255 --> 00:33:38,154
from Europe,

868
00:33:38,615 --> 00:33:41,674
100 of years old, originally made by monks,

869
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:43,099
said to be made,

870
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:44,380
with

871
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,380
somewhere between 50 a100 different herbs.

872
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,259
It has a distinct herbal taste

873
00:33:51,784 --> 00:33:52,765
and it is green,

874
00:33:53,784 --> 00:33:55,085
so we use that

875
00:33:56,265 --> 00:33:57,484
as the placebo.

876
00:34:01,090 --> 00:34:03,009
When I read that in the study, Ethan,

877
00:34:03,009 --> 00:34:05,590
I just howled sitting in my living room

878
00:34:06,049 --> 00:34:06,549
because

879
00:34:07,345 --> 00:34:08,005
number 1,

880
00:34:08,704 --> 00:34:10,724
it's really humorous to see chartreuse

881
00:34:11,105 --> 00:34:13,844
so out of place and in the wild.

882
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:15,739
Like I was a bartender

883
00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:18,599
in my 20s 30s, so I was, of

884
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:21,160
course, very familiar with Chartreuse, but I didn't

885
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,500
expect to see it in the study while

886
00:34:23,605 --> 00:34:24,505
I was reading

887
00:34:24,804 --> 00:34:26,324
it. And then it makes so much sense

888
00:34:26,324 --> 00:34:26,824
because

889
00:34:27,204 --> 00:34:29,445
even though Chartreuse has got a certain sweetness

890
00:34:29,445 --> 00:34:31,519
to it, it is so herbal. And when

891
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:34,000
you watered it way down, I totally see

892
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,019
how it could become an effective,

893
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:38,260
placebo

894
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:39,380
that

895
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,755
looks and and and acts like a tincture

896
00:34:42,815 --> 00:34:43,315
without

897
00:34:43,695 --> 00:34:44,914
the active components.

898
00:34:45,375 --> 00:34:46,734
Did you find that it worked out pretty

899
00:34:46,734 --> 00:34:48,014
well? Because I would think that that would

900
00:34:48,014 --> 00:34:48,909
be a home run.

901
00:34:50,349 --> 00:34:51,389
Sure. You know, I

902
00:34:52,109 --> 00:34:53,170
nobody said,

903
00:34:53,949 --> 00:34:55,389
that I'm aware of,

904
00:34:55,789 --> 00:34:56,289
that

905
00:34:56,670 --> 00:34:58,255
we know this is the drug, and we

906
00:34:58,255 --> 00:34:59,614
know that this one isn't.

907
00:35:01,055 --> 00:35:02,755
So and, you know, again,

908
00:35:03,454 --> 00:35:04,769
people were sent vials

909
00:35:10,769 --> 00:35:12,230
and the person administering

910
00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:14,005
didn't know what was what.

911
00:35:14,565 --> 00:35:16,505
You know, this is a way to maintain

912
00:35:16,565 --> 00:35:18,804
the blind, and we think it was quite

913
00:35:18,804 --> 00:35:20,344
effective in this instance.

914
00:35:20,804 --> 00:35:23,139
Right on. And since since the name of

915
00:35:23,139 --> 00:35:25,539
the individual is in this study, we might

916
00:35:25,539 --> 00:35:27,960
as well go ahead and mention who provided

917
00:35:28,179 --> 00:35:30,945
the CBD tincture for this study. They might

918
00:35:30,945 --> 00:35:32,164
find that novel.

919
00:35:33,425 --> 00:35:35,844
Yes. This came from 1 Shango Los.

920
00:35:36,385 --> 00:35:37,204
Oh, me.

921
00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:40,210
Yeah. Well, I I was happy to do

922
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:42,769
my bit for science, Ethan. So I am

923
00:35:42,769 --> 00:35:44,070
grateful to have participated.

924
00:35:45,464 --> 00:35:47,224
So, all right. So let's go ahead and

925
00:35:47,224 --> 00:35:49,144
take our 1st break. When we get back,

926
00:35:49,144 --> 00:35:51,704
we're gonna talk a lot about the battery

927
00:35:51,704 --> 00:35:52,444
of tests

928
00:35:52,984 --> 00:35:54,684
that were given to

929
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:57,369
the research participants because

930
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:59,849
since this study is pointing specifically

931
00:36:00,630 --> 00:36:01,130
to

932
00:36:01,510 --> 00:36:02,570
how CBG

933
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:04,490
helps with anxiety,

934
00:36:05,414 --> 00:36:07,014
it's going to be very interesting to look

935
00:36:07,014 --> 00:36:09,014
at these different tests and figure out how

936
00:36:09,014 --> 00:36:11,594
they tease at anxiety different ways.

937
00:36:12,059 --> 00:36:14,139
So you are listening to Shaping Fire and

938
00:36:14,139 --> 00:36:16,880
my guest today is neurologist, Doctor. Ethan Russo.

939
00:36:17,099 --> 00:36:19,420
And you know, without these advertisers, Shaping Fire

940
00:36:19,420 --> 00:36:21,565
would not happen. So please support them and

941
00:36:21,565 --> 00:36:23,724
let them know you heard them on Shaping

942
00:36:23,724 --> 00:36:24,224
Fire.

943
00:36:27,164 --> 00:36:29,469
This message is for folks who grow cannabis.

944
00:36:29,550 --> 00:36:32,109
I'm talking to home growers, patients and commercial

945
00:36:32,109 --> 00:36:35,070
growers too. I'm probably talking to you. When

946
00:36:35,070 --> 00:36:37,070
you plan out your next growing cycle, be

947
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sure to check out Humboldt CSI

948
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949
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950
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951
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Humboldt County for over a 100 years. For

952
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the last 40 years, 3 generations of his

953
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family have cultivated extraordinary

954
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sense of mia cannabis in Humboldt, Mendocino, and

955
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Trinity Counties.

956
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Because of his lineage and the hard earned

957
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experience that comes from growing up, smoking, and

958
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sifting large populations of cannabis plants in Northern

959
00:37:03,844 --> 00:37:04,344
California,

960
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,159
the seeds you'll caught from CSI will be

961
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winning genetics

962
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based on long time heavy hitters and updated

963
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and resifted to bring out new and exotic

964
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,744
traits and better yields.

965
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Go ahead and ask around. Caleb, also known

966
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as Inspecta and Pirates of the Emerald Triangle,

967
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is a breeder's breeder. He reaches way back

968
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and works with significant strains,

969
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recreating them in new and interesting ways that

970
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you'll love as a toker and a grower

971
00:37:29,924 --> 00:37:32,005
as well as offering you some surprises that

972
00:37:32,005 --> 00:37:34,424
will delight serious seed traders and cultivators.

973
00:37:35,364 --> 00:37:38,550
Humboldt's CSI goes a further step and selfs

974
00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:39,610
all these chemovars

975
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:41,510
so you know all the seeds will be

976
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:42,010
female.

977
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:43,530
These are not experimental

978
00:37:43,989 --> 00:37:47,155
feminized seeds. Humboldt CSI releases some of the

979
00:37:47,155 --> 00:37:50,114
best female seeds available anywhere and it will

980
00:37:50,114 --> 00:37:51,095
show in your garden.

981
00:37:51,715 --> 00:37:53,974
Folks grew quite a bit of CSI Humboldtgenics

982
00:37:54,195 --> 00:37:56,739
last year here on Vashon Island and everyone

983
00:37:56,739 --> 00:38:00,119
was pleased. The patients had beautiful female plants

984
00:38:00,179 --> 00:38:01,780
and didn't have to cull half of their

985
00:38:01,780 --> 00:38:02,840
garden as males.

986
00:38:03,195 --> 00:38:05,195
The folks growing for the fun of getting

987
00:38:05,195 --> 00:38:08,474
high grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal

988
00:38:08,474 --> 00:38:11,434
and great highs. And breeders had 7 out

989
00:38:11,434 --> 00:38:13,420
of 7 females in a pack which gave

990
00:38:13,420 --> 00:38:15,280
them a lot of phenotypic choices.

991
00:38:16,059 --> 00:38:18,480
Take a moment right now and visit humboldtci.com.

992
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You'll find an up to date menu of

993
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both feminized and regular lines along with photos

994
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995
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That's humboldtcsi.com.

996
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Email

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hotspot@shapingfire.com

1040
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to find out more.

1041
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Fish poop brand fertilizer is an all natural

1042
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fish poop concentrate with nothing added.

1043
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Real fish poop is extraordinarily

1044
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complex.

1045
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Not only are you adding the nitrogen, phosphorus,

1046
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and potassium your plants need to build mass,

1047
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transport nutrients, and enhance flavor,

1048
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but fish waste is also packed with biological

1049
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activity and micronutrients.

1050
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When you add fish poop to your irrigation

1051
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water, you are adding life force, probiotics and

1052
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1053
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These microorganisms

1054
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include a wealth of various bacteria and protozoa

1055
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which further enhance nutrient availability

1056
00:40:56,775 --> 00:40:57,515
for the plants.

1057
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Because plants are limited by the absence of

1058
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any essential micronutrient,

1059
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these trace nutrients are the difference between having

1060
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,320
a decent garden and having a garden that

1061
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makes you feel really proud of your efforts.

1062
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Fish poop is a naturally complete solution that

1063
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1064
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to ensure you offer your garden a broad

1065
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base of nutrients.

1066
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Not all fish poop is created equally.

1067
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Most products with added fish waste don't reveal

1068
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their sources or lab results.

1069
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Fishpoop brand Fishpoop, however,

1070
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generates their own fish waste as a byproduct

1071
00:41:32,255 --> 00:41:35,179
of their organic aquaponics cannabis farm where they

1072
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raise ornamental koi and tilapia.

1073
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You are even invited to tour their farm

1074
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1075
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1076
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This sort of transparency is wildly rare in

1077
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the fertilizer market.

1078
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The folks behind fish poop are also lifelong

1079
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medical cannabis producers

1080
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who have deep connections in the community,

1081
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donate more product than they sell, and support

1082
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cannabis prisoner, veteran, and patient collectives and charities.

1083
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To get your bottle of pure fish poop,

1084
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go to fishpoop.com.

1085
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1087
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That's fish poop, brand fish poop.

1088
00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:16,360
Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire.

1089
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,440
I'm your host, Shango Loos, and my guest

1090
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,795
today is neurologist doctor Ethan Russo.

1091
00:42:21,414 --> 00:42:23,755
So before the break, we were talking about,

1092
00:42:24,614 --> 00:42:28,214
the study that this new study was based

1093
00:42:28,214 --> 00:42:28,714
on,

1094
00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:32,070
the various advantages that we're starting to see

1095
00:42:32,070 --> 00:42:33,769
teased out of CBG,

1096
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:37,289
and specifically this study, how it looked

1097
00:42:37,655 --> 00:42:40,155
at the anxiety of patients and CBG's

1098
00:42:40,535 --> 00:42:42,635
ability to decrease that anxiety.

1099
00:42:44,375 --> 00:42:45,914
And how the study

1100
00:42:46,510 --> 00:42:49,230
is designed is remarkable because what it has

1101
00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:51,950
to do is is subtly push people's buttons

1102
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:52,930
in different ways

1103
00:42:53,230 --> 00:42:54,849
and see whether or not

1104
00:42:55,515 --> 00:42:56,575
they can handle

1105
00:42:56,954 --> 00:42:59,055
having their anxiety buttons pushed

1106
00:42:59,755 --> 00:43:03,035
with the study drug versus the placebo, which

1107
00:43:03,035 --> 00:43:05,099
we now know was just very watered down

1108
00:43:05,099 --> 00:43:05,599
chartreuse.

1109
00:43:06,219 --> 00:43:09,280
So the study consisted of 2 interviews

1110
00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:12,719
between the research assistant and the participant

1111
00:43:13,344 --> 00:43:15,285
1 week apart via Zoom.

1112
00:43:15,664 --> 00:43:19,364
So before the interview, the research subject ingests

1113
00:43:19,505 --> 00:43:21,605
a vial of either 20 milligrams

1114
00:43:21,905 --> 00:43:23,820
of whole plant CBG tincture

1115
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,340
or the watered down chartreuse placebo.

1116
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,554
Then, when the interviewer starts, some baseline demographic

1117
00:43:31,614 --> 00:43:32,894
questions are asked just to kind of like

1118
00:43:32,894 --> 00:43:35,614
get them talking. But then a whole battery

1119
00:43:35,614 --> 00:43:37,234
of tests take place.

1120
00:43:37,659 --> 00:43:39,420
And I got to say, Ethan, reading about

1121
00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:41,920
them in the study, they really seem numerous

1122
00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:44,539
and varied and designed to stress like any

1123
00:43:44,539 --> 00:43:46,764
kind of person out in a way that

1124
00:43:46,764 --> 00:43:48,944
doesn't do any permanent damage.

1125
00:43:49,405 --> 00:43:51,724
So I know we've got, you know, a

1126
00:43:51,724 --> 00:43:53,405
handful of them and they all work in

1127
00:43:53,405 --> 00:43:55,719
slightly different ways. So I think I just

1128
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,559
want to hand you the mic and let

1129
00:43:57,559 --> 00:43:59,719
you walk us through these battery as tests

1130
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,519
and teach us what they are and what

1131
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:03,500
their goal was.

1132
00:44:04,235 --> 00:44:04,735
Sure.

1133
00:44:05,434 --> 00:44:05,835
So,

1134
00:44:06,235 --> 00:44:07,614
at the zero point,

1135
00:44:08,474 --> 00:44:10,655
they had baseline assessments,

1136
00:44:11,195 --> 00:44:12,335
mood, anxiety,

1137
00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:14,670
stress, and drug effects.

1138
00:44:15,609 --> 00:44:18,170
It may seem strange to ask about drug

1139
00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:21,364
effect questions when nothing's on board, but

1140
00:44:22,164 --> 00:44:23,304
you you want to establish,

1141
00:44:24,724 --> 00:44:25,224
comparison,

1142
00:44:26,565 --> 00:44:28,264
before the drug is administered.

1143
00:44:29,630 --> 00:44:31,010
So at that time,

1144
00:44:31,390 --> 00:44:33,890
as you mentioned, they take the CBG

1145
00:44:34,269 --> 00:44:34,769
tincture

1146
00:44:35,550 --> 00:44:36,510
or the,

1147
00:44:37,444 --> 00:44:38,585
chartreuse placebo.

1148
00:44:40,164 --> 00:44:42,424
Then they take an online survey

1149
00:44:43,764 --> 00:44:44,264
using,

1150
00:44:45,045 --> 00:44:46,184
up some time,

1151
00:44:46,530 --> 00:44:47,910
and the first testing

1152
00:44:48,210 --> 00:44:50,450
was at the 20 minute mark. And I

1153
00:44:50,450 --> 00:44:51,590
wanna mention here,

1154
00:44:51,970 --> 00:44:52,950
we got a criticism,

1155
00:44:53,890 --> 00:44:55,750
from one reviewer about,

1156
00:44:56,184 --> 00:44:58,585
you know, why did you start then? Probably

1157
00:44:58,585 --> 00:45:00,364
wasn't doing anything, but

1158
00:45:00,824 --> 00:45:01,724
in the interim,

1159
00:45:02,344 --> 00:45:03,964
there was a pharmacokinetics

1160
00:45:04,909 --> 00:45:06,210
study done. Pharmacokinetics

1161
00:45:07,869 --> 00:45:09,329
is what are the effects,

1162
00:45:10,349 --> 00:45:12,670
how long does it take for certain effects

1163
00:45:12,670 --> 00:45:15,114
to appear, And we were able to show

1164
00:45:15,114 --> 00:45:15,614
that

1165
00:45:16,155 --> 00:45:18,574
when people took CBG orally,

1166
00:45:19,755 --> 00:45:21,614
that the effects begin

1167
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:24,889
and are seemingly

1168
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:26,730
well established

1169
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:28,889
by the 20 minute mark.

1170
00:45:30,135 --> 00:45:32,295
So at the 20 minute mark, there were

1171
00:45:32,295 --> 00:45:35,655
tests of mood, anxiety, stress, and drug effect

1172
00:45:35,655 --> 00:45:36,155
ratings.

1173
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:37,570
Then,

1174
00:45:38,670 --> 00:45:41,309
they take the thing called a trier social

1175
00:45:41,309 --> 00:45:42,289
stress test.

1176
00:45:42,829 --> 00:45:44,369
They beget more,

1177
00:45:44,989 --> 00:45:46,864
ratings of all those parameters

1178
00:45:47,164 --> 00:45:48,465
at 45 minutes.

1179
00:45:50,284 --> 00:45:50,925
And then,

1180
00:45:51,324 --> 00:45:52,385
between 45

1181
00:45:52,684 --> 00:45:53,585
60 minutes,

1182
00:45:54,210 --> 00:45:57,989
they'd have the California verbal learning test too,

1183
00:45:58,289 --> 00:45:59,190
which assesses

1184
00:45:59,489 --> 00:46:00,549
memory impairment,

1185
00:46:01,434 --> 00:46:02,894
and they'd have the Druid

1186
00:46:03,195 --> 00:46:03,695
application.

1187
00:46:04,954 --> 00:46:09,215
Druid is an app that's designed to assess

1188
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,019
motor and reaction times and whether someone's impaired.

1189
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:17,760
And, you know, this is something that's been

1190
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,094
validated, and it's done on a smartphone.

1191
00:46:20,875 --> 00:46:21,515
And then,

1192
00:46:21,994 --> 00:46:24,335
at time 3, it's 60 minutes.

1193
00:46:24,715 --> 00:46:27,994
Again, the mood, anxiety, stress, and drug effect

1194
00:46:27,994 --> 00:46:28,494
ratings.

1195
00:46:29,260 --> 00:46:31,359
So there were different time points

1196
00:46:31,819 --> 00:46:35,260
and as you mentioned, these different types of

1197
00:46:35,260 --> 00:46:36,000
of testing,

1198
00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:38,079
to see,

1199
00:46:39,315 --> 00:46:39,815
what

1200
00:46:40,514 --> 00:46:41,335
would happen.

1201
00:46:43,394 --> 00:46:45,414
So in choosing these studies,

1202
00:46:45,820 --> 00:46:49,280
did you approach them as, okay, these are

1203
00:46:49,739 --> 00:46:50,800
the studies

1204
00:46:51,180 --> 00:46:53,599
that are always used by scientists

1205
00:46:54,784 --> 00:46:56,944
who study anxiety, like were this is a

1206
00:46:56,944 --> 00:46:57,444
preset

1207
00:46:57,744 --> 00:46:58,244
battery?

1208
00:46:59,105 --> 00:47:01,025
Or did you, as the designer of the

1209
00:47:01,025 --> 00:47:01,525
study,

1210
00:47:01,869 --> 00:47:04,589
have to go and choose these yourself off

1211
00:47:04,589 --> 00:47:05,329
the shelf,

1212
00:47:06,030 --> 00:47:08,190
because they're the ones that you respect and

1213
00:47:08,190 --> 00:47:10,190
the ones that were going to tease out

1214
00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:11,170
the kind of

1215
00:47:12,105 --> 00:47:14,105
data points that you wanted to look at.

1216
00:47:14,105 --> 00:47:15,784
I'm just trying to figure out whether or

1217
00:47:15,784 --> 00:47:18,505
not these are like boilerplate studies or whether

1218
00:47:18,505 --> 00:47:19,085
or not

1219
00:47:20,059 --> 00:47:21,920
that this is more of a custom ordeal?

1220
00:47:22,619 --> 00:47:24,880
Well, you know, there are always differences,

1221
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:27,200
but, these are well accepted

1222
00:47:28,954 --> 00:47:32,655
types of studies to look at these parameters.

1223
00:47:33,835 --> 00:47:34,335
So

1224
00:47:34,715 --> 00:47:36,554
basically what I could say if you looked

1225
00:47:36,554 --> 00:47:38,469
at studies from Johns Hopkins

1226
00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:42,210
like the limonene and THC study we just

1227
00:47:42,210 --> 00:47:45,410
did, a lot of overlap in the tests

1228
00:47:45,410 --> 00:47:46,295
that were done,

1229
00:47:47,014 --> 00:47:48,234
and that's for a reason.

1230
00:47:48,614 --> 00:47:50,875
These are time tested measures,

1231
00:47:51,815 --> 00:47:53,434
that are well accepted,

1232
00:47:54,214 --> 00:47:55,755
in the scientific community.

1233
00:47:56,550 --> 00:47:58,170
When you look at these tests,

1234
00:47:58,949 --> 00:47:59,449
and,

1235
00:48:00,710 --> 00:48:02,489
they wanna come about this a different way.

1236
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:04,630
We know that anxiety comes in a lot

1237
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:05,769
of different forms.

1238
00:48:06,375 --> 00:48:09,414
And and, you know, people on Vashon Island

1239
00:48:09,414 --> 00:48:11,835
here where I live have been taking CBG

1240
00:48:11,974 --> 00:48:12,474
tincture

1241
00:48:12,855 --> 00:48:13,994
for a couple years,

1242
00:48:14,469 --> 00:48:18,010
and and the results that people speak back

1243
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:18,650
anecdotally,

1244
00:48:19,429 --> 00:48:22,089
they they review different types of anxiety

1245
00:48:22,644 --> 00:48:24,345
that the tincture helps with.

1246
00:48:25,684 --> 00:48:27,465
As you were designing the study,

1247
00:48:27,845 --> 00:48:30,425
what were you looking to pull out of

1248
00:48:30,485 --> 00:48:31,305
the various

1249
00:48:32,469 --> 00:48:33,369
the various

1250
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:35,670
tests that you're giving folks. And and I'm

1251
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:37,269
not asking you to necessarily go through them

1252
00:48:37,269 --> 00:48:39,989
all, but but so we can understand how

1253
00:48:39,989 --> 00:48:42,855
to scientifically think through these tests, would you

1254
00:48:42,855 --> 00:48:44,695
maybe compare 2 or 3 of them and

1255
00:48:44,695 --> 00:48:45,195
say,

1256
00:48:45,575 --> 00:48:47,335
well, this one is looking at this type

1257
00:48:47,335 --> 00:48:49,414
of anxiety versus this one's looking at the

1258
00:48:49,414 --> 00:48:52,670
different type of anxiety because unfortunately, most people

1259
00:48:52,670 --> 00:48:55,549
who who have anxiety, they just say, I'm

1260
00:48:55,549 --> 00:48:56,049
anxious

1261
00:48:56,429 --> 00:48:59,549
without the ever having had the opportunity to

1262
00:48:59,549 --> 00:49:00,894
think about what kind of

1263
00:49:08,929 --> 00:49:10,469
feeling anxious in general.

1264
00:49:11,329 --> 00:49:14,710
Situ situational anxiety would be I get

1265
00:49:15,089 --> 00:49:17,269
stressed when I have to go outside.

1266
00:49:19,094 --> 00:49:19,175
But,

1267
00:49:20,775 --> 00:49:21,275
again,

1268
00:49:22,454 --> 00:49:23,355
and I

1269
00:49:23,655 --> 00:49:26,135
although I was a psych major in college,

1270
00:49:26,135 --> 00:49:28,130
I'm not an expert on this, but I

1271
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:31,570
can assure you that doctor Cutler and doctor

1272
00:49:31,570 --> 00:49:32,710
Cooper are,

1273
00:49:34,147 --> 00:49:34,324
but,

1274
00:49:35,204 --> 00:49:35,704
again,

1275
00:49:36,565 --> 00:49:38,484
one of the tests is called the stain

1276
00:49:38,484 --> 00:49:38,984
anxiety,

1277
00:49:40,885 --> 00:49:41,340
and

1278
00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:45,039
another is more specific for stress,

1279
00:49:46,539 --> 00:49:47,760
as as might

1280
00:49:48,835 --> 00:49:49,974
be precipitated

1281
00:49:50,355 --> 00:49:51,414
by subtracting

1282
00:49:51,715 --> 00:49:54,355
17 from a high number Mhmm. And having

1283
00:49:54,355 --> 00:49:55,335
to repeat it.

1284
00:49:55,940 --> 00:49:57,940
So I I don't think I've given you

1285
00:49:57,940 --> 00:49:59,480
a great answer, but,

1286
00:50:00,500 --> 00:50:02,039
what I can say is

1287
00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:03,960
that over time,

1288
00:50:04,494 --> 00:50:06,034
we saw these statistically

1289
00:50:06,574 --> 00:50:07,074
significant

1290
00:50:07,454 --> 00:50:07,954
differences

1291
00:50:08,974 --> 00:50:11,554
in the these folks tested twice

1292
00:50:12,250 --> 00:50:12,750
between

1293
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:14,030
their,

1294
00:50:14,969 --> 00:50:15,469
experience

1295
00:50:15,849 --> 00:50:16,750
on the CBG

1296
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:19,630
and their experience on the placebo.

1297
00:50:20,494 --> 00:50:23,135
And because, you know, it wasn't always one

1298
00:50:23,135 --> 00:50:24,994
before the other, it was random

1299
00:50:25,614 --> 00:50:27,234
as to which came first,

1300
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:28,780
You can control,

1301
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,420
so it's not a matter of

1302
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,255
well, you know, I'm not stressed because they

1303
00:50:34,335 --> 00:50:35,954
I knew they were gonna subtract

1304
00:50:36,335 --> 00:50:38,974
have me subtract 17 from a high number,

1305
00:50:38,974 --> 00:50:41,554
and it wasn't as bad the second time.

1306
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:43,640
In general,

1307
00:50:44,980 --> 00:50:47,140
these are set up in a way that,

1308
00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:49,800
there shouldn't be these big practice effects.

1309
00:50:51,304 --> 00:50:53,224
I wanna poke at that a little bit.

1310
00:50:53,224 --> 00:50:55,304
The the term practice effects is one I'm

1311
00:50:55,304 --> 00:50:57,224
unfamiliar with, so that might be what I'm

1312
00:50:57,224 --> 00:50:59,699
asking about. But, okay. So let's assume that

1313
00:50:59,699 --> 00:51:02,280
the tincture that is was the CBG tincture

1314
00:51:03,059 --> 00:51:05,239
presented a certain way, and then the chartreuse

1315
00:51:05,974 --> 00:51:07,815
presented a certain way. And they both seem

1316
00:51:07,815 --> 00:51:09,735
like they could have been the CBG tincture,

1317
00:51:09,735 --> 00:51:11,195
which was the goal. So that's great.

1318
00:51:11,575 --> 00:51:13,894
But we those of us who who do

1319
00:51:13,894 --> 00:51:15,275
use CBG regularly,

1320
00:51:15,609 --> 00:51:16,589
it really has

1321
00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:18,109
a huge effect

1322
00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:21,690
on anxiety. In my own personal experience, I've

1323
00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:22,670
experienced this.

1324
00:51:22,969 --> 00:51:23,469
So

1325
00:51:24,085 --> 00:51:26,565
do you have a data point that speaks

1326
00:51:26,565 --> 00:51:27,704
at all to,

1327
00:51:29,364 --> 00:51:30,344
to what degree

1328
00:51:31,869 --> 00:51:34,530
the test subjects were able to determine

1329
00:51:35,150 --> 00:51:38,210
which one was likely the study drug, not

1330
00:51:38,269 --> 00:51:39,250
based on presentation,

1331
00:51:39,905 --> 00:51:41,905
but based on based on, oh my God,

1332
00:51:41,905 --> 00:51:43,905
this works so much better than the one

1333
00:51:43,905 --> 00:51:45,984
other one I had. The other one must

1334
00:51:45,984 --> 00:51:46,964
have been the placebo.

1335
00:51:47,869 --> 00:51:48,369
Well,

1336
00:51:48,750 --> 00:51:50,609
you know, I we didn't

1337
00:51:50,909 --> 00:51:51,409
record

1338
00:51:51,789 --> 00:51:53,010
people's reaction

1339
00:51:53,469 --> 00:51:54,244
that way.

1340
00:51:55,765 --> 00:51:57,305
You don't want to

1341
00:51:58,405 --> 00:51:59,385
probe too

1342
00:52:00,005 --> 00:52:00,505
deeply

1343
00:52:01,204 --> 00:52:03,525
at this point when you're trying to get

1344
00:52:03,525 --> 00:52:04,025
2

1345
00:52:04,469 --> 00:52:06,010
sets of data points.

1346
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:07,210
And,

1347
00:52:07,590 --> 00:52:08,090
again,

1348
00:52:08,869 --> 00:52:11,210
you might get varying degrees

1349
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:14,355
of response in an individual,

1350
00:52:14,655 --> 00:52:17,155
but you need numbers. In this instance,

1351
00:52:17,855 --> 00:52:19,074
34 folks

1352
00:52:19,695 --> 00:52:21,469
to see what the overall

1353
00:52:22,030 --> 00:52:24,369
effect is and whether it has statistical

1354
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:25,250
significance.

1355
00:52:26,190 --> 00:52:29,170
So my answer to your very pertinent question

1356
00:52:29,309 --> 00:52:29,809
is

1357
00:52:31,094 --> 00:52:31,594
we

1358
00:52:32,375 --> 00:52:33,914
rate the benefit

1359
00:52:34,215 --> 00:52:35,675
in terms of statistics,

1360
00:52:37,335 --> 00:52:37,835
and

1361
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:40,920
now I need to give a little primer

1362
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:41,659
on statistics.

1363
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,500
Statistics,

1364
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,454
the the lower the number is, the more

1365
00:52:49,094 --> 00:52:50,474
significant it is.

1366
00:52:51,335 --> 00:52:53,195
Something is considered medically

1367
00:52:53,494 --> 00:52:53,994
significant

1368
00:52:55,494 --> 00:52:58,609
if it has a probability or p value

1369
00:52:59,150 --> 00:53:00,130
under 0.05.

1370
00:53:01,309 --> 00:53:03,565
What that means is there's less than a

1371
00:53:03,644 --> 00:53:05,505
chance one chance in 20

1372
00:53:05,964 --> 00:53:08,385
that the results occurred due to chance,

1373
00:53:09,244 --> 00:53:10,385
meaning that

1374
00:53:10,764 --> 00:53:11,905
when it's 0.05

1375
00:53:12,605 --> 00:53:13,344
or less,

1376
00:53:13,690 --> 00:53:16,430
we consider that likely a real effect,

1377
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:20,090
and then as the numbers are smaller, it's

1378
00:53:20,090 --> 00:53:20,990
more statistically

1379
00:53:21,530 --> 00:53:22,030
significant.

1380
00:53:22,965 --> 00:53:24,164
So in this instance,

1381
00:53:26,325 --> 00:53:27,305
in the subjective

1382
00:53:28,005 --> 00:53:28,505
anxiety,

1383
00:53:30,644 --> 00:53:31,144
ratios,

1384
00:53:31,869 --> 00:53:33,809
there was a moderately

1385
00:53:34,190 --> 00:53:35,170
large size

1386
00:53:35,869 --> 00:53:36,369
significant

1387
00:53:36,829 --> 00:53:39,949
effect of the condition, meaning one versus the

1388
00:53:39,949 --> 00:53:40,449
other.

1389
00:53:40,984 --> 00:53:42,844
That p value was 0.034,

1390
00:53:44,025 --> 00:53:45,244
so under the 0.05,

1391
00:53:46,824 --> 00:53:47,324
and

1392
00:53:47,989 --> 00:53:50,329
over time, it was very significant.

1393
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:51,130
So,

1394
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:53,049
p value of 0.001,

1395
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:56,714
that means one chance in a thousand

1396
00:53:57,094 --> 00:53:59,674
that this could be just a chance occurrence.

1397
00:54:00,375 --> 00:54:01,835
That's a real effect.

1398
00:54:02,534 --> 00:54:04,989
Anytime there's one chance in a 1,000,

1399
00:54:06,090 --> 00:54:07,710
that, you know, this

1400
00:54:09,449 --> 00:54:11,150
it it it really

1401
00:54:11,635 --> 00:54:13,015
is highly statistically

1402
00:54:13,474 --> 00:54:13,974
significant.

1403
00:54:15,715 --> 00:54:17,335
Similarly, the stress ratings,

1404
00:54:18,989 --> 00:54:20,609
the effect over time,

1405
00:54:21,309 --> 00:54:22,609
p value of 0.001,

1406
00:54:25,869 --> 00:54:26,369
and

1407
00:54:27,105 --> 00:54:29,824
a large size simple effect of the condition

1408
00:54:29,824 --> 00:54:31,364
on the change in subjective

1409
00:54:32,065 --> 00:54:33,925
stress ratings again at 0.032.

1410
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:36,739
It's under the 0.05.

1411
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:40,659
But at the same time,

1412
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,980
there were not major changes in in mood.

1413
00:54:46,664 --> 00:54:49,644
The thing called the state anxiety scores,

1414
00:54:50,425 --> 00:54:52,204
again, showed us large

1415
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:53,340
statistically

1416
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,900
significant main effect over time,

1417
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:56,940
point

1418
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:57,900
001.

1419
00:54:58,679 --> 00:55:00,760
Now if we were looking at the graphs

1420
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:01,820
from the study,

1421
00:55:02,405 --> 00:55:04,505
you can see that there's a clear

1422
00:55:05,764 --> 00:55:06,264
demarcation.

1423
00:55:07,125 --> 00:55:09,545
There's space between the effects

1424
00:55:10,199 --> 00:55:10,779
on placebo

1425
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,339
and the effects on CBG,

1426
00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:16,599
and the bigger the space between those, the

1427
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:18,215
more significant it is.

1428
00:55:19,974 --> 00:55:22,635
In these, you can see that the differences

1429
00:55:22,775 --> 00:55:23,835
are pretty clear.

1430
00:55:25,809 --> 00:55:28,769
You know, again, this wasn't a situation where

1431
00:55:28,769 --> 00:55:29,269
we

1432
00:55:29,650 --> 00:55:31,909
asked people for a lot of introspection

1433
00:55:32,929 --> 00:55:33,429
on

1434
00:55:33,844 --> 00:55:36,405
what they thought was going on. It it

1435
00:55:36,405 --> 00:55:38,905
really had to be objective, meaning

1436
00:55:39,364 --> 00:55:40,985
what did the test show.

1437
00:55:43,010 --> 00:55:43,510
So,

1438
00:55:44,289 --> 00:55:46,610
you know, it would have been interesting to

1439
00:55:46,610 --> 00:55:48,789
ask people more about their reactions.

1440
00:55:49,809 --> 00:55:50,625
So that's

1441
00:55:51,105 --> 00:55:53,925
one thing. We showed these clear statistical

1442
00:55:55,425 --> 00:55:55,925
and

1443
00:55:56,224 --> 00:55:57,525
significant changes

1444
00:55:58,190 --> 00:55:59,090
looking at anxiety

1445
00:55:59,469 --> 00:56:01,170
and stress with these standardized

1446
00:56:01,630 --> 00:56:02,130
measures.

1447
00:56:03,630 --> 00:56:04,130
But,

1448
00:56:05,309 --> 00:56:06,369
at what cost?

1449
00:56:06,875 --> 00:56:09,375
In other words, were the people impaired

1450
00:56:09,994 --> 00:56:12,015
when this happened? I mean, you can

1451
00:56:12,394 --> 00:56:13,375
make someone

1452
00:56:13,675 --> 00:56:16,170
no longer anxious by sedating them.

1453
00:56:17,929 --> 00:56:20,889
So what would really be important is to

1454
00:56:20,889 --> 00:56:22,429
have benefit on anxiety

1455
00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:24,109
without sedation.

1456
00:56:24,945 --> 00:56:26,565
So we looked at other measures.

1457
00:56:27,824 --> 00:56:29,684
1 was a measure of intoxication.

1458
00:56:30,945 --> 00:56:31,445
So,

1459
00:56:31,824 --> 00:56:32,804
this is a

1460
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:34,300
place where

1461
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,920
if there were a lot of THC, you'd

1462
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,340
expect you'd get significant difference

1463
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,099
between that preparation

1464
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:42,140
and placebo.

1465
00:56:43,885 --> 00:56:44,704
We also

1466
00:56:45,244 --> 00:56:48,385
had drug effect ratings, and this is

1467
00:56:49,005 --> 00:56:51,344
asking people about their reactions

1468
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:53,180
and,

1469
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:55,820
how much they like the drug.

1470
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:59,500
So most often, cannabis users

1471
00:57:00,235 --> 00:57:02,255
in a clinical trial setting

1472
00:57:02,715 --> 00:57:05,515
will report that they liked a certain amount

1473
00:57:05,515 --> 00:57:06,255
of THC.

1474
00:57:07,195 --> 00:57:08,974
So three measures there,

1475
00:57:09,549 --> 00:57:12,829
but we saw no significant differences between the

1476
00:57:12,829 --> 00:57:13,329
cannabagiol

1477
00:57:14,269 --> 00:57:15,170
and the placebo

1478
00:57:15,469 --> 00:57:16,849
at any time point

1479
00:57:17,244 --> 00:57:18,944
with respect to intoxication

1480
00:57:19,244 --> 00:57:19,744
ratings,

1481
00:57:20,364 --> 00:57:22,224
they were almost straight lines.

1482
00:57:22,924 --> 00:57:24,304
Same with drug effect

1483
00:57:24,924 --> 00:57:26,704
and same with drug liking.

1484
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:29,610
So no space between the lines

1485
00:57:30,070 --> 00:57:33,030
at the three time points, 20 minutes, 45

1486
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:34,650
minutes, and 60 minutes.

1487
00:57:35,315 --> 00:57:36,934
This is really remarkable

1488
00:57:37,634 --> 00:57:40,454
because if you test any other drug

1489
00:57:41,315 --> 00:57:43,710
used for anxiety like a Benzodiazepine,

1490
00:57:44,730 --> 00:57:45,230
Valium,

1491
00:57:45,690 --> 00:57:46,190
diazepam,

1492
00:57:48,489 --> 00:57:51,405
almost always, there's gonna be significant sedation

1493
00:57:52,025 --> 00:57:54,664
or other complaints, and we just didn't see

1494
00:57:54,664 --> 00:57:55,164
that.

1495
00:57:55,945 --> 00:57:57,405
And then there's another

1496
00:57:58,010 --> 00:57:58,510
dimension

1497
00:58:02,489 --> 00:58:02,989
here.

1498
00:58:03,849 --> 00:58:06,045
I'm sorry. I wanna talk a little more

1499
00:58:06,184 --> 00:58:06,684
about,

1500
00:58:07,144 --> 00:58:08,684
subjective drug effects.

1501
00:58:10,025 --> 00:58:11,324
So these are rated

1502
00:58:11,944 --> 00:58:12,699
0 to,

1503
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,260
0, not at all, to 10 extreme.

1504
00:58:18,519 --> 00:58:21,755
And again, there were no significant differences between

1505
00:58:21,755 --> 00:58:22,255
CBG

1506
00:58:22,795 --> 00:58:23,614
and placebo

1507
00:58:23,914 --> 00:58:25,775
at any of the three time points,

1508
00:58:26,315 --> 00:58:29,215
20 minutes, 45 minutes, or 60 minutes.

1509
00:58:31,860 --> 00:58:32,360
Then,

1510
00:58:34,099 --> 00:58:34,599
again,

1511
00:58:35,219 --> 00:58:36,519
if we have a drug

1512
00:58:37,059 --> 00:58:38,440
that's good for anxiety,

1513
00:58:40,224 --> 00:58:40,724
we

1514
00:58:41,425 --> 00:58:43,985
wanna make sure that it's not producing any

1515
00:58:43,985 --> 00:58:44,485
impairment.

1516
00:58:45,505 --> 00:58:48,565
So memory tests were part of the trials.

1517
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,219
Then a very surprising and important thing happened,

1518
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:54,659
which was

1519
00:58:55,519 --> 00:58:56,659
people on the CBG

1520
00:58:57,119 --> 00:58:58,019
actually did

1521
00:58:58,385 --> 00:59:01,204
better on memory tests, and this was

1522
00:59:01,585 --> 00:59:02,085
statistically

1523
00:59:02,465 --> 00:59:02,965
significant.

1524
00:59:04,224 --> 00:59:05,525
So there was a moderate

1525
00:59:06,065 --> 00:59:07,845
size significant effect

1526
00:59:08,449 --> 00:59:09,190
of the condition,

1527
00:59:10,609 --> 00:59:11,909
and that's at the

1528
00:59:12,210 --> 00:59:12,869
the probability

1529
00:59:13,170 --> 00:59:14,789
of point 0 5 level

1530
00:59:15,250 --> 00:59:16,309
and a large

1531
00:59:17,275 --> 00:59:17,775
statistically

1532
00:59:18,074 --> 00:59:20,015
significant effect over time.

1533
00:59:20,554 --> 00:59:22,954
It meaning looking at all the time points

1534
00:59:22,954 --> 00:59:24,255
and that p value

1535
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:26,200
was point 001.

1536
00:59:27,140 --> 00:59:28,840
So that supports the idea

1537
00:59:29,380 --> 00:59:32,039
that on this verbal memory test

1538
00:59:32,579 --> 00:59:33,079
that

1539
00:59:33,724 --> 00:59:35,265
the performance was significantly

1540
00:59:35,724 --> 00:59:38,545
better on CBG than it was on placebo.

1541
00:59:39,405 --> 00:59:40,860
This is not what you

1542
00:59:41,739 --> 00:59:42,180
expect,

1543
00:59:42,619 --> 00:59:45,900
from most studies of this type. Especially on

1544
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:46,400
cannabis.

1545
00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:47,760
Yeah, exactly.

1546
00:59:48,394 --> 00:59:51,914
But, again, lacking THC, CBG is a different

1547
00:59:51,914 --> 00:59:52,894
kettle of fish.

1548
00:59:53,434 --> 00:59:55,755
It really is distinctly different in what it

1549
00:59:55,755 --> 00:59:56,255
does.

1550
00:59:57,150 --> 00:59:59,489
And to me, this might be the

1551
00:59:59,949 --> 01:00:00,510
the most,

1552
01:00:00,909 --> 01:00:01,409
surprising

1553
01:00:02,590 --> 01:00:05,284
finding. Yeah. It was definitely surprising to me

1554
01:00:05,284 --> 01:00:07,364
reading it. It was actually kind of like

1555
01:00:07,364 --> 01:00:09,204
a plot twist in a book as I

1556
01:00:09,204 --> 01:00:11,050
was reading the study. I'm like, oh, I

1557
01:00:11,050 --> 01:00:12,410
I didn't know that was here and I

1558
01:00:12,410 --> 01:00:14,429
didn't certainly didn't expect it coming.

1559
01:00:14,809 --> 01:00:17,130
I I believe that this next question is

1560
01:00:17,130 --> 01:00:18,750
outside the scope of the study.

1561
01:00:19,054 --> 01:00:21,295
But as a neurologist and as somebody who

1562
01:00:21,295 --> 01:00:23,614
has spent their life studying cannabis, I bet

1563
01:00:23,614 --> 01:00:24,594
you have an opinion,

1564
01:00:24,894 --> 01:00:25,635
which is

1565
01:00:26,070 --> 01:00:28,170
do you think that the improved

1566
01:00:28,550 --> 01:00:29,050
memory

1567
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:32,650
was more related to

1568
01:00:33,964 --> 01:00:37,664
something this something that CBG was doing to

1569
01:00:37,885 --> 01:00:38,385
actually

1570
01:00:39,005 --> 01:00:40,625
improve memory function?

1571
01:00:41,269 --> 01:00:43,289
Or do you think it was because,

1572
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:47,429
memory was increased in the absence of the

1573
01:00:47,429 --> 01:00:50,085
anxiety which the CBG had solved for?

1574
01:00:50,724 --> 01:00:52,824
Right. Well, it's likely the latter,

1575
01:00:53,284 --> 01:00:56,005
that the reduction in anxiety in a test

1576
01:00:56,005 --> 01:00:56,505
situation

1577
01:00:56,804 --> 01:00:58,824
led to better performance. However,

1578
01:00:59,619 --> 01:01:02,119
that might not only be it.

1579
01:01:02,900 --> 01:01:06,839
There could be memory enhancing properties, and that

1580
01:01:07,139 --> 01:01:09,079
is gonna have to be teased out

1581
01:01:09,445 --> 01:01:12,324
in subsequent studies. So there's plenty more to

1582
01:01:12,324 --> 01:01:12,824
do.

1583
01:01:13,844 --> 01:01:16,324
I did wanna indicate that there was one

1584
01:01:16,324 --> 01:01:17,304
final thing

1585
01:01:17,630 --> 01:01:20,369
that we tested that was again very important,

1586
01:01:21,309 --> 01:01:22,289
and that was

1587
01:01:23,309 --> 01:01:26,275
the question of impairment of any type.

1588
01:01:27,855 --> 01:01:28,355
And,

1589
01:01:28,815 --> 01:01:29,954
in fact, again,

1590
01:01:31,614 --> 01:01:32,114
CBG

1591
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:35,340
showed,

1592
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:37,260
lack of impairment.

1593
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:39,099
Participants

1594
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:39,900
performed

1595
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:41,420
significantly better,

1596
01:01:42,494 --> 01:01:43,234
in the

1597
01:01:44,174 --> 01:01:46,355
trial times 2 and 3

1598
01:01:46,894 --> 01:01:47,394
after,

1599
01:01:48,255 --> 01:01:50,594
taking CBG than they did on placebo.

1600
01:01:52,670 --> 01:01:53,170
So,

1601
01:01:53,789 --> 01:01:54,289
again,

1602
01:01:54,989 --> 01:01:57,650
something that may not really have been expected,

1603
01:01:57,869 --> 01:01:58,369
but

1604
01:01:58,855 --> 01:02:00,534
what I like to say is what the

1605
01:02:00,534 --> 01:02:02,074
world needs now

1606
01:02:02,694 --> 01:02:04,315
is an effective drug

1607
01:02:04,934 --> 01:02:05,434
for

1608
01:02:06,199 --> 01:02:06,699
anxiety

1609
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:08,779
that doesn't produce impairment

1610
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,679
or sedation or addiction, and we may have

1611
01:02:12,679 --> 01:02:13,135
it

1612
01:02:13,534 --> 01:02:14,994
in the form of cannabagiol.

1613
01:02:16,175 --> 01:02:18,335
Amen. Now that is a big statement that

1614
01:02:18,335 --> 01:02:20,755
I can get behind. My goodness. Alright. So,

1615
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,360
unless you have anything else to add regarding

1616
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,280
the conclusions of the study, I'm about to

1617
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,599
go to break and we'll after after the

1618
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:31,619
set break, we will we will talk about

1619
01:02:31,875 --> 01:02:34,355
ramifications and next steps. But do you have

1620
01:02:34,355 --> 01:02:37,074
anything else regarding the conclusions of the study

1621
01:02:37,074 --> 01:02:37,894
that you want

1622
01:02:38,275 --> 01:02:40,114
to tuck in here before we move on?

1623
01:02:40,114 --> 01:02:42,710
Well, I could summarize now or after the

1624
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:45,190
break. Alright. Well, since you're going to summarize,

1625
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:47,349
let's summarize after the break because we'll be

1626
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:49,289
summarizing a couple different points. So,

1627
01:02:49,755 --> 01:02:51,675
you are listening to Shaping Fire and my

1628
01:02:51,675 --> 01:02:52,894
guest today is neurologist

1629
01:02:53,195 --> 01:02:54,335
Doctor. Ethan Russo.

1630
01:02:57,559 --> 01:02:59,960
One of the challenges with buying autoflower seeds

1631
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:01,480
is that often you will have as many

1632
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,559
different phenos as you will have seeds in

1633
01:03:03,559 --> 01:03:04,139
a pack.

1634
01:03:04,545 --> 01:03:06,945
That can be fun, sure. But so many

1635
01:03:06,945 --> 01:03:09,105
varieties in one pack is a sign of

1636
01:03:09,105 --> 01:03:11,265
an immature seed line that hasn't been worked

1637
01:03:11,265 --> 01:03:11,765
enough.

1638
01:03:12,430 --> 01:03:14,829
I prefer my autoflowers to be worked enough

1639
01:03:14,829 --> 01:03:16,990
that each fino in the pack really captures

1640
01:03:16,990 --> 01:03:18,930
the aspects that the breeder was intending.

1641
01:03:19,875 --> 01:03:21,175
This is why I recommend

1642
01:03:21,554 --> 01:03:23,954
gnome automatics to my friends and listeners who

1643
01:03:23,954 --> 01:03:26,135
grow automatic flowering cannabis seeds.

1644
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,239
Gnome automatic seeds are not just crossed and

1645
01:03:29,239 --> 01:03:29,739
released.

1646
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:32,699
They are painstakingly sifted again and again,

1647
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,859
tested in a wide range of conditions,

1648
01:03:35,184 --> 01:03:37,344
and taken to a level of maturity that

1649
01:03:37,344 --> 01:03:39,764
each plant will be recognizable by its traits.

1650
01:03:40,545 --> 01:03:42,625
Traits that were hard earned, so that you

1651
01:03:42,625 --> 01:03:44,724
can have your best growth cycle ever.

1652
01:03:45,539 --> 01:03:48,500
Over the last 10 years, gnome automatics founder,

1653
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:51,140
Dan Jimmy, has become a trusted breeder and

1654
01:03:51,140 --> 01:03:53,059
he continues to pour his passion of breeding

1655
01:03:53,059 --> 01:03:55,994
cannabis into every variety he releases for you

1656
01:03:55,994 --> 01:03:56,574
to grow.

1657
01:03:57,355 --> 01:03:58,574
Check out the gnomeautomatics

1658
01:03:59,194 --> 01:03:59,694
Instagram

1659
01:03:59,994 --> 01:04:01,510
at gnome _automatics

1660
01:04:02,610 --> 01:04:05,030
to see the impressive plants folks are growing.

1661
01:04:05,730 --> 01:04:08,550
You can score gnome automatic seeds in feminized

1662
01:04:08,610 --> 01:04:11,174
or regular at your favorite seed provider listed

1663
01:04:11,174 --> 01:04:13,034
in the vendor section of their website.

1664
01:04:13,974 --> 01:04:16,534
Commercial cannabis farms across the country love growing

1665
01:04:16,534 --> 01:04:17,355
gnome automatics

1666
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:20,410
because of their consistency from seed to seed,

1667
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:23,450
short grow times, THC percentages,

1668
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:25,289
and colorful bag appeal.

1669
01:04:25,885 --> 01:04:28,045
Farms interested in bulk seeds of more than

1670
01:04:28,045 --> 01:04:30,625
a1000 should reach out through gnomeautomatics.com.

1671
01:04:33,059 --> 01:04:34,739
While on the website, be sure to check

1672
01:04:34,739 --> 01:04:37,140
out the gnome automatic shirts and other merch

1673
01:04:37,140 --> 01:04:38,039
section too.

1674
01:04:38,660 --> 01:04:41,460
If you want reliable seeds, hand built from

1675
01:04:41,460 --> 01:04:41,960
effort,

1676
01:04:42,264 --> 01:04:43,964
expert selection and experience,

1677
01:04:44,424 --> 01:04:44,924
choose

1678
01:04:45,304 --> 01:04:46,204
gnome automatics.

1679
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,360
Sometimes the topics I want to share with

1680
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,119
you are far too brief for an entire

1681
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:56,079
shaping fire episode. In those instances, I post

1682
01:04:56,079 --> 01:04:56,980
them to Instagram.

1683
01:04:57,394 --> 01:04:59,394
I invite you to follow my 2 Instagram

1684
01:04:59,394 --> 01:05:01,414
profiles and participate online.

1685
01:05:01,875 --> 01:05:04,594
The Shaping Fire Instagram has follow-up posts to

1686
01:05:04,594 --> 01:05:05,815
Shaping Fire episodes,

1687
01:05:06,269 --> 01:05:08,130
growing and processing best practices,

1688
01:05:08,429 --> 01:05:09,650
product trials, and

1689
01:05:10,589 --> 01:05:13,869
gorgeous flower photos. The Shango Loast Instagram follows

1690
01:05:13,869 --> 01:05:16,835
my travels on cannabis garden tours, my successes

1691
01:05:16,894 --> 01:05:18,594
and failures in my own garden,

1692
01:05:18,974 --> 01:05:21,875
insights and best practices from personal grows everywhere,

1693
01:05:22,175 --> 01:05:24,195
and always gorgeous flower photos.

1694
01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:26,739
On both profiles, the emphasis is on sharing

1695
01:05:26,739 --> 01:05:27,940
what I've learned in a way that you

1696
01:05:27,940 --> 01:05:30,260
can replicate it in your own garden, your

1697
01:05:30,260 --> 01:05:32,440
own hash lab, or for your own cnabidopathic

1698
01:05:32,819 --> 01:05:35,304
health. So I encourage you to follow at

1699
01:05:35,304 --> 01:05:37,405
shaping fire and at shangolose

1700
01:05:37,784 --> 01:05:40,045
and join our online community on Instagram.

1701
01:05:43,610 --> 01:05:45,369
You've heard me talk about the award winning

1702
01:05:45,369 --> 01:05:47,769
cannabis seeds that come from the analytical breeding

1703
01:05:47,769 --> 01:05:50,329
program of Seth and Eric Crawford who founded

1704
01:05:50,329 --> 01:05:53,324
Oregon CBD Seeds. In fact, Seth was a

1705
01:05:53,324 --> 01:05:55,264
guest on Shaping Fire in 2020

1706
01:05:55,804 --> 01:05:57,425
to talk about triploid genetics.

1707
01:05:58,364 --> 01:06:00,784
Seth and Eric are now releasing high THC

1708
01:06:01,005 --> 01:06:03,969
seeds for homegrowers and farms as grow the

1709
01:06:03,969 --> 01:06:04,469
revolution

1710
01:06:04,769 --> 01:06:06,070
seeds at gtrseeds.com.

1711
01:06:08,210 --> 01:06:10,550
Their high THC seeds are extraordinary

1712
01:06:11,065 --> 01:06:13,144
in that they will start to flower at

1713
01:06:13,144 --> 01:06:15,625
16 and a half hours of daylight instead

1714
01:06:15,625 --> 01:06:17,625
of the typical 14 and a half hours

1715
01:06:17,625 --> 01:06:18,269
of daylight.

1716
01:06:18,750 --> 01:06:20,289
That means in most regions,

1717
01:06:20,590 --> 01:06:22,909
your plants will start to flower outdoors in

1718
01:06:22,909 --> 01:06:23,969
the middle of July

1719
01:06:24,349 --> 01:06:26,715
instead of the middle of August, which means

1720
01:06:26,715 --> 01:06:29,215
these photoperiod plants finish in September

1721
01:06:29,594 --> 01:06:30,655
and not October,

1722
01:06:31,034 --> 01:06:33,695
totally upending the photoperiod seed market.

1723
01:06:34,369 --> 01:06:37,029
Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering

1724
01:06:37,089 --> 01:06:39,409
CBG line and bred it to some of

1725
01:06:39,409 --> 01:06:42,869
the most desired verified genetics out there including

1726
01:06:43,010 --> 01:06:43,510
sourdiesel,

1727
01:06:43,925 --> 01:06:47,465
triangle kush, wedding cake, chemdogs, skittles, and others.

1728
01:06:47,925 --> 01:06:51,605
These crosses all express powerful photoperiod terpene profiles

1729
01:06:51,605 --> 01:06:52,344
and THC,

1730
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:54,260
giving you a great high.

1731
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,300
GTR Seeds has a new THCV

1732
01:06:57,679 --> 01:07:00,500
line with plants like Double Durban and Gigantor

1733
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,525
that boast 1 to 1 THC to

1734
01:07:06,945 --> 01:07:09,364
THCV. GTR seeds are very consistent,

1735
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,900
true growing inbred F1s

1736
01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:14,780
from stabilized inbred parent lines.

1737
01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:17,019
These seeds are nearly homogeneous

1738
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:19,659
and the plants should all grow the same.

1739
01:07:19,945 --> 01:07:22,684
There is only one phenotype in every pack,

1740
01:07:22,905 --> 01:07:24,765
available as diploids and triploids.

1741
01:07:25,545 --> 01:07:27,965
Seth and Eric's company is still family owned,

1742
01:07:28,105 --> 01:07:30,859
patient- and employee centric, and partially powered by

1743
01:07:30,859 --> 01:07:32,639
their 2 acres of solar panels.

1744
01:07:33,339 --> 01:07:35,579
Everyone can purchase these seeds and the entire

1745
01:07:35,579 --> 01:07:38,525
catalog of Oregon CBD seeds atgtrseeds.com.

1746
01:07:40,744 --> 01:07:41,724
Go to gtrseeds.com

1747
01:07:42,585 --> 01:07:45,545
today and choose something revolutionary for your next

1748
01:07:45,545 --> 01:07:47,005
indoor or outdoor run.

1749
01:07:47,699 --> 01:07:49,699
Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire

1750
01:07:49,699 --> 01:07:52,179
and I am your host, Shango Los. And

1751
01:07:52,179 --> 01:07:53,559
my guest today is neurologist,

1752
01:07:53,859 --> 01:07:56,224
Doctor. Ethan Russo. So here we are in

1753
01:07:56,224 --> 01:07:58,804
the big 3rd set wrapping things up.

1754
01:07:59,105 --> 01:08:01,005
And, you know, Ethan, the

1755
01:08:01,344 --> 01:08:04,230
throughout our conversation, the thing that really send

1756
01:08:04,469 --> 01:08:06,889
tends to glow big in this study

1757
01:08:07,269 --> 01:08:08,409
is that 78%

1758
01:08:09,110 --> 01:08:09,929
of the participants

1759
01:08:10,789 --> 01:08:14,315
said that CBG works better than their pharmaceutical

1760
01:08:14,775 --> 01:08:16,474
or other traditional medication,

1761
01:08:17,175 --> 01:08:19,114
and that is a staggeringly

1762
01:08:19,734 --> 01:08:23,140
successful number in my eyes that nearly 80%

1763
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:25,760
of people said that CBG was better than

1764
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:27,380
whatever they normally use.

1765
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:29,600
Does this stand out to you as a

1766
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,135
research scientist too being like an oh my

1767
01:08:32,135 --> 01:08:32,954
god moment?

1768
01:08:34,215 --> 01:08:35,974
Yeah. It was a surprise to me that

1769
01:08:35,974 --> 01:08:37,675
it was that high, but

1770
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:40,300
perhaps,

1771
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,000
in retrospect with,

1772
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,260
3 years since then, it's

1773
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,979
less of a surprise to me because

1774
01:08:48,905 --> 01:08:49,965
in our formulation

1775
01:08:50,345 --> 01:08:52,284
work, we've been using CBG

1776
01:08:52,664 --> 01:08:53,164
extensively,

1777
01:08:54,345 --> 01:08:54,845
and,

1778
01:08:55,225 --> 01:08:55,965
the results

1779
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,619
bear this out. It is an extremely

1780
01:08:59,960 --> 01:09:01,720
versatile medicine that,

1781
01:09:03,239 --> 01:09:04,539
really contributes

1782
01:09:05,305 --> 01:09:07,164
greatly to therapeutic effects.

1783
01:09:08,185 --> 01:09:10,664
And it just feeds into your, your statement

1784
01:09:10,664 --> 01:09:13,359
right before we went to commercial about how

1785
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:16,000
how big the impact of this can be

1786
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,960
in, you know, reducing human suffering from anxiety.

1787
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:20,180
I mean, it's a big deal

1788
01:09:20,505 --> 01:09:22,024
Even even though you and I are becoming

1789
01:09:22,024 --> 01:09:22,524
increasingly

1790
01:09:22,824 --> 01:09:24,045
comfortable with it, right?

1791
01:09:24,505 --> 01:09:25,005
Yes.

1792
01:09:25,385 --> 01:09:26,524
Yeah. So

1793
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,039
one of the attributes or one of the

1794
01:09:29,039 --> 01:09:30,880
aspects that I think is worthy of looking

1795
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:31,859
at is that

1796
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:34,579
so many people presently use CBD

1797
01:09:35,284 --> 01:09:35,784
and

1798
01:09:36,244 --> 01:09:36,984
or THC

1799
01:09:37,364 --> 01:09:38,425
for their anxiety

1800
01:09:38,804 --> 01:09:39,304
now.

1801
01:09:39,765 --> 01:09:41,225
And and CBD,

1802
01:09:41,765 --> 01:09:42,265
CBG,

1803
01:09:42,725 --> 01:09:45,739
and THC have all 3 of them got

1804
01:09:45,739 --> 01:09:46,239
different

1805
01:09:47,659 --> 01:09:48,880
modes of operation

1806
01:09:50,539 --> 01:09:51,039
approaching

1807
01:09:52,364 --> 01:09:54,864
anxiety. As you mentioned in the last set,

1808
01:09:55,005 --> 01:09:57,244
one of the magical things that not magical.

1809
01:09:57,244 --> 01:09:59,824
One of the impressive things that CBG does

1810
01:10:00,060 --> 01:10:00,800
is decrease anxiety

1811
01:10:01,340 --> 01:10:02,319
without intoxication,

1812
01:10:03,100 --> 01:10:05,579
which as most of us know is is

1813
01:10:05,579 --> 01:10:08,935
exactly the mode of operation for why THC

1814
01:10:09,154 --> 01:10:11,715
works. It sedates people and for many people

1815
01:10:11,715 --> 01:10:14,274
that handles, you know, their major type of

1816
01:10:14,274 --> 01:10:17,119
anxiety and it decreases. So would you please

1817
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:18,980
do us the favor of comparing

1818
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:20,420
CBG

1819
01:10:21,119 --> 01:10:21,619
versus

1820
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,539
THC for anxiety

1821
01:10:24,345 --> 01:10:26,845
and then CBG versus CBD

1822
01:10:27,465 --> 01:10:29,385
so we can tease out a little bit

1823
01:10:29,385 --> 01:10:31,864
more what is unique about CBG compared to

1824
01:10:31,864 --> 01:10:34,789
these 2 which are very common commonly used

1825
01:10:34,850 --> 01:10:36,069
in the cannabis world?

1826
01:10:37,090 --> 01:10:37,590
Sure.

1827
01:10:38,050 --> 01:10:38,550
So

1828
01:10:39,729 --> 01:10:42,235
THC is a very strange one in this

1829
01:10:42,235 --> 01:10:44,395
regard. It's it's well known that,

1830
01:10:45,435 --> 01:10:47,775
it THC can be helpful or

1831
01:10:48,235 --> 01:10:48,680
hurt

1832
01:10:49,239 --> 01:10:51,640
anxiety, and it's really a matter of dose.

1833
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,579
So very, very small doses

1834
01:10:54,119 --> 01:10:55,100
have an antianxiety

1835
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,739
effect, whereas higher doses

1836
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,645
can certainly induce anxiety or even panic.

1837
01:11:02,744 --> 01:11:05,064
And this is an effect that's been known

1838
01:11:05,064 --> 01:11:08,420
for 4000 years because it was in the

1839
01:11:08,420 --> 01:11:10,199
ancient Assyrian literature

1840
01:11:11,060 --> 01:11:13,380
on relation to cannabis that was said to

1841
01:11:13,380 --> 01:11:15,399
be for or against

1842
01:11:15,859 --> 01:11:16,359
panic,

1843
01:11:16,914 --> 01:11:18,854
And, again, a matter of dose.

1844
01:11:19,635 --> 01:11:21,715
Is is that the biphasic nature? Is that

1845
01:11:21,715 --> 01:11:23,555
the is that the vocabulary? It's called a

1846
01:11:23,555 --> 01:11:24,055
biphasic

1847
01:11:24,420 --> 01:11:26,119
dose response with THC.

1848
01:11:26,979 --> 01:11:29,560
Now if CBG induces

1849
01:11:29,860 --> 01:11:32,520
anxiety, I don't know what the dose is.

1850
01:11:33,614 --> 01:11:34,994
We know anecdotally

1851
01:11:35,295 --> 01:11:38,095
that people have taken very high doses and

1852
01:11:38,095 --> 01:11:38,595
not,

1853
01:11:39,614 --> 01:11:40,755
had this problem.

1854
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:45,449
So I don't know what the upper limit

1855
01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:46,010
is.

1856
01:11:48,310 --> 01:11:49,289
In this instance,

1857
01:11:50,274 --> 01:11:50,774
CBG

1858
01:11:51,074 --> 01:11:51,574
probably

1859
01:11:52,034 --> 01:11:55,074
is a safer bet if the target is

1860
01:11:55,074 --> 01:11:56,295
anxiety because

1861
01:11:58,390 --> 01:12:00,550
we know that there's a dose range that

1862
01:12:00,550 --> 01:12:01,770
seems to be effective

1863
01:12:02,460 --> 01:12:03,609
and, without

1864
01:12:03,965 --> 01:12:04,704
the intoxication

1865
01:12:05,164 --> 01:12:08,604
that can occur if the THC dose gets

1866
01:12:08,604 --> 01:12:09,505
too high.

1867
01:12:11,699 --> 01:12:12,280
You know?

1868
01:12:12,820 --> 01:12:14,360
So how about the 2 together?

1869
01:12:14,980 --> 01:12:15,880
Well, again,

1870
01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:19,880
in our formulation work, we're using CBG with

1871
01:12:20,435 --> 01:12:22,454
low doses of THC, and,

1872
01:12:23,235 --> 01:12:26,215
seemingly, it's a really useful adjunctive

1873
01:12:26,595 --> 01:12:27,975
thing to add that

1874
01:12:29,180 --> 01:12:30,960
improves clinical response.

1875
01:12:32,539 --> 01:12:35,500
So there seem to be these at least

1876
01:12:35,500 --> 01:12:37,119
additive or even synergistic

1877
01:12:37,579 --> 01:12:39,104
benefits on pain,

1878
01:12:39,484 --> 01:12:40,864
sleep, and mood.

1879
01:12:42,445 --> 01:12:46,420
And having CBG aboard may increase what's called

1880
01:12:46,420 --> 01:12:48,600
the therapeutic index of THC,

1881
01:12:49,300 --> 01:12:52,280
meaning the amount that you can use without

1882
01:12:52,420 --> 01:12:53,720
producing side effects,

1883
01:12:54,645 --> 01:12:57,385
and making the overall effect that much

1884
01:12:57,765 --> 01:12:58,265
greater.

1885
01:13:00,244 --> 01:13:03,239
So the idea is that adding CBG to

1886
01:13:03,239 --> 01:13:06,219
your THC may relay may relieve

1887
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,179
some of the negative outcomes of THC

1888
01:13:09,755 --> 01:13:12,954
and, therefore, helping THC do its job while

1889
01:13:12,954 --> 01:13:14,655
CBG is doing its job?

1890
01:13:15,515 --> 01:13:17,755
Quite. Right on. Right. And we're we're seeing

1891
01:13:17,755 --> 01:13:19,135
this where we have

1892
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:23,689
situations of people rating their effects of different

1893
01:13:23,689 --> 01:13:24,189
chemoVARS,

1894
01:13:24,489 --> 01:13:26,030
and we know what the

1895
01:13:26,489 --> 01:13:27,710
certificates of analysis

1896
01:13:28,090 --> 01:13:31,215
tell us about the portions of the different

1897
01:13:31,595 --> 01:13:34,814
components, it's it's easy to see these patterns.

1898
01:13:35,755 --> 01:13:36,854
One of the things we're hearing consistently is

1899
01:13:36,854 --> 01:13:37,454
when there's a

1900
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:41,079
consistently is when there's a significant amount of

1901
01:13:41,079 --> 01:13:41,579
CBG

1902
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,920
in the preparation along with the THC, that

1903
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:46,539
it's much better tolerated,

1904
01:13:48,154 --> 01:13:49,054
that people

1905
01:13:49,354 --> 01:13:50,335
have a

1906
01:13:50,875 --> 01:13:51,694
good experience

1907
01:13:52,074 --> 01:13:52,974
or benefit

1908
01:13:53,594 --> 01:13:55,135
on symptoms without

1909
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,699
THC associated side effects.

1910
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,119
We've seen some of that anecdotally as well

1911
01:14:01,119 --> 01:14:02,800
here on Vashon Island because,

1912
01:14:03,199 --> 01:14:03,699
since

1913
01:14:04,395 --> 01:14:07,354
the CBG dominant cultivar has been grown here

1914
01:14:07,354 --> 01:14:08,975
on the island for a few years,

1915
01:14:09,835 --> 01:14:10,734
people who

1916
01:14:11,194 --> 01:14:11,694
historically

1917
01:14:12,475 --> 01:14:15,319
had a strong anxious reaction,

1918
01:14:15,939 --> 01:14:18,600
dysphoric response to smoking cannabis,

1919
01:14:19,380 --> 01:14:21,539
even if they used, you know, edibles or

1920
01:14:21,539 --> 01:14:23,145
oils or things like that, some folks, you

1921
01:14:23,145 --> 01:14:25,385
know, they're just smoking doesn't work for them

1922
01:14:25,385 --> 01:14:27,965
because it it shoots them up really fast

1923
01:14:28,265 --> 01:14:30,579
and and some some folks don't like that.

1924
01:14:30,820 --> 01:14:31,560
People started

1925
01:14:32,420 --> 01:14:34,280
mixing CBG flour

1926
01:14:34,899 --> 01:14:36,920
in with their THC flour

1927
01:14:37,220 --> 01:14:37,720
and

1928
01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:39,320
and and a lot of those,

1929
01:14:40,565 --> 01:14:43,945
you know, sharp increases in anxiety were relieved.

1930
01:14:44,485 --> 01:14:46,965
And, you know, that those are those are

1931
01:14:46,965 --> 01:14:50,420
very small number of people, but again, shows

1932
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,140
the potential for use for folks

1933
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:54,579
who are also

1934
01:14:55,119 --> 01:14:56,260
needing THC

1935
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,280
for some other issue that they're dealing with,

1936
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:00,484
but CBG

1937
01:15:00,784 --> 01:15:01,925
can take the

1938
01:15:02,225 --> 01:15:03,045
the edge off.

1939
01:15:03,905 --> 01:15:04,405
Definitely.

1940
01:15:04,944 --> 01:15:06,704
Do you have, do do you have compare

1941
01:15:06,864 --> 01:15:09,524
similar comparisons of CBG versus

1942
01:15:09,890 --> 01:15:11,510
CBD use for anxiety?

1943
01:15:12,130 --> 01:15:14,929
Okay. So let's look at why people use

1944
01:15:14,929 --> 01:15:16,609
them. We've we've mentioned that,

1945
01:15:17,170 --> 01:15:18,949
the survey patients,

1946
01:15:19,824 --> 01:15:20,725
use CBG

1947
01:15:21,345 --> 01:15:24,324
to treat pain, anxiety, and aid sleep.

1948
01:15:24,944 --> 01:15:27,685
We often hear the same claims for CBD,

1949
01:15:28,225 --> 01:15:30,699
but we have to parse this out.

1950
01:15:31,079 --> 01:15:32,380
If we're talking about

1951
01:15:33,159 --> 01:15:33,659
CBD

1952
01:15:34,679 --> 01:15:35,739
as an isolate,

1953
01:15:37,215 --> 01:15:40,574
it actually is alerting at low and moderate

1954
01:15:40,574 --> 01:15:43,534
doses. It's only at extreme doses. Again, this

1955
01:15:43,534 --> 01:15:44,994
biphasic dose response

1956
01:15:45,810 --> 01:15:46,929
that CBD actually,

1957
01:15:49,969 --> 01:15:51,750
produces any kind of sedation.

1958
01:15:53,554 --> 01:15:55,094
With respect to anxiety,

1959
01:15:55,795 --> 01:15:56,854
we know now

1960
01:15:57,795 --> 01:16:00,774
after these studies that there's a distinct difference.

1961
01:16:02,060 --> 01:16:04,319
CBD was studied in this,

1962
01:16:05,179 --> 01:16:06,719
an article by Bergamaski

1963
01:16:07,579 --> 01:16:09,119
et al in Brazil

1964
01:16:09,765 --> 01:16:10,904
some years ago.

1965
01:16:11,444 --> 01:16:15,125
They looked at social anxiety, which is akin

1966
01:16:15,125 --> 01:16:16,664
to what we were doing here.

1967
01:16:17,530 --> 01:16:19,069
It required 400

1968
01:16:19,449 --> 01:16:21,069
milligrams of CBD

1969
01:16:21,449 --> 01:16:21,949
isolate

1970
01:16:22,729 --> 01:16:24,189
to produce a significant

1971
01:16:25,210 --> 01:16:25,710
antianxiety

1972
01:16:26,250 --> 01:16:26,750
effect.

1973
01:16:27,465 --> 01:16:28,844
We got the antianxiety

1974
01:16:29,305 --> 01:16:32,024
effect with 20 milligrams, so that's a 20

1975
01:16:32,024 --> 01:16:33,645
fold difference in dose,

1976
01:16:35,064 --> 01:16:36,125
meaning that

1977
01:16:37,010 --> 01:16:40,449
it appears that CBG is much more potent

1978
01:16:40,449 --> 01:16:41,510
as an antianxiety

1979
01:16:42,050 --> 01:16:42,550
agent.

1980
01:16:43,250 --> 01:16:46,194
400 milligrams of CBD is gonna be quite

1981
01:16:46,194 --> 01:16:48,694
expensive no matter what kind of preparation.

1982
01:16:49,395 --> 01:16:49,895
Whereas,

1983
01:16:50,514 --> 01:16:53,175
hopefully, with a CBG only ChemoVAR,

1984
01:16:54,609 --> 01:16:57,350
20 milligrams is is just not that much.

1985
01:16:57,970 --> 01:17:00,789
It should should be much more economical and

1986
01:17:01,225 --> 01:17:03,485
I suspect, more effective overall.

1987
01:17:04,905 --> 01:17:07,545
Do we know enough about the mode of

1988
01:17:07,545 --> 01:17:10,969
operation of CBD versus CBG to

1989
01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:13,449
know what they may be doing differently.

1990
01:17:13,829 --> 01:17:16,409
Certainly based on the size of dose,

1991
01:17:17,484 --> 01:17:19,564
it it suggests we should move in towards

1992
01:17:19,564 --> 01:17:20,064
CBG,

1993
01:17:20,524 --> 01:17:22,385
but but having used both

1994
01:17:22,765 --> 01:17:23,265
independently

1995
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,979
for my anxiety, I just simply find CBG

1996
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:29,779
to be wildly more effective than CBD,

1997
01:17:30,159 --> 01:17:32,399
which makes me think that it's doing something

1998
01:17:32,399 --> 01:17:33,619
different than the CBD.

1999
01:17:34,454 --> 01:17:37,015
Quite likely. And, again, some of this gets

2000
01:17:37,015 --> 01:17:38,475
into some really heavy

2001
01:17:38,935 --> 01:17:39,435
effects,

2002
01:17:40,375 --> 01:17:42,635
in different areas of the brain and and

2003
01:17:42,774 --> 01:17:43,274
neurotransmitters.

2004
01:17:45,399 --> 01:17:47,800
What I believe, and we'll need to have

2005
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,460
subsequent studies like functional MRI

2006
01:17:51,244 --> 01:17:51,684
or,

2007
01:17:52,125 --> 01:17:54,465
PET scans to look at this, but,

2008
01:17:55,724 --> 01:17:56,784
this is likely

2009
01:17:57,324 --> 01:17:57,824
affecting,

2010
01:18:00,829 --> 01:18:02,050
the limbic system,

2011
01:18:02,750 --> 01:18:04,529
emotional areas of the brain.

2012
01:18:05,390 --> 01:18:07,789
And, yeah, that likely are a lot of

2013
01:18:07,789 --> 01:18:09,185
distinct differences, but

2014
01:18:10,385 --> 01:18:12,484
that's gonna require more investigation.

2015
01:18:13,265 --> 01:18:15,024
Yeah. That sounds like a great Shaping Fire

2016
01:18:15,024 --> 01:18:16,164
episode too. So

2017
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:17,840
as soon as you got that research done,

2018
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,300
make sure you let me know, Ethan.

2019
01:18:20,319 --> 01:18:21,779
Yeah, it might be a while.

2020
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:24,984
Another thing that I wanna point out, you

2021
01:18:25,064 --> 01:18:25,804
just compared,

2022
01:18:26,185 --> 01:18:29,625
the 20 milligrams of whole plant CBD dominant

2023
01:18:29,625 --> 01:18:30,125
tincture

2024
01:18:30,744 --> 01:18:34,010
to 400 milligrams of CBD isolate. And we've

2025
01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:36,170
already talked a little bit, on other times

2026
01:18:36,170 --> 01:18:38,329
that we have spoken about the difference between

2027
01:18:38,329 --> 01:18:40,109
isolate and whole plant preparations.

2028
01:18:41,744 --> 01:18:44,704
One of the ideas that the paper puts

2029
01:18:44,704 --> 01:18:45,925
forward is that,

2030
01:18:48,465 --> 01:18:50,564
one way to tweak the study

2031
01:18:50,930 --> 01:18:51,750
to look for,

2032
01:18:52,210 --> 01:18:53,189
additional benefits

2033
01:18:53,649 --> 01:18:56,369
would be to increase the dosage of the

2034
01:18:56,369 --> 01:18:59,489
CBG from from the 20 milligrams that was

2035
01:18:59,489 --> 01:18:59,989
delivered

2036
01:19:00,414 --> 01:19:02,594
up to 25 to 50 milligrams

2037
01:19:02,895 --> 01:19:05,135
because some of the other science that is

2038
01:19:05,135 --> 01:19:06,755
being done at this time

2039
01:19:07,135 --> 01:19:10,170
are is using isolate up to 50 milligrams.

2040
01:19:10,869 --> 01:19:13,350
But to me, someone who's very much in

2041
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:14,329
the whole plant medicine,

2042
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:16,170
the efficacy

2043
01:19:16,585 --> 01:19:19,305
of isolate and whole resin aren't the same.

2044
01:19:19,305 --> 01:19:21,085
And time and time again, we see,

2045
01:19:22,024 --> 01:19:24,810
CBD isolate, for example, not showing the same

2046
01:19:24,810 --> 01:19:26,590
efficacy as whole plant.

2047
01:19:27,130 --> 01:19:28,989
How do you weigh for yourself,

2048
01:19:30,409 --> 01:19:31,789
you know, 20 milligrams

2049
01:19:32,375 --> 01:19:34,614
of whole plant tincture that was used in

2050
01:19:34,614 --> 01:19:38,375
your study versus 25 to 50 milligrams of

2051
01:19:38,375 --> 01:19:39,515
isolate being

2052
01:19:39,909 --> 01:19:41,909
used in a different study? It seems to

2053
01:19:41,909 --> 01:19:43,670
me like those are they would be very

2054
01:19:43,670 --> 01:19:46,010
hard to compare those because

2055
01:19:46,310 --> 01:19:47,770
they're not apples and apples.

2056
01:19:48,534 --> 01:19:51,195
Yeah. It's a problem, and this is why,

2057
01:19:51,814 --> 01:19:53,195
certainly when I'm reviewing,

2058
01:19:54,774 --> 01:19:56,155
acting as a peer reviewer

2059
01:19:56,820 --> 01:19:58,600
on other studies, I want

2060
01:19:59,060 --> 01:19:59,560
specification

2061
01:20:01,060 --> 01:20:03,699
on what's being utilized. In other words, we

2062
01:20:03,699 --> 01:20:06,685
wanna see studies where there actually is

2063
01:20:07,225 --> 01:20:08,845
a certificate of analysis

2064
01:20:09,225 --> 01:20:10,685
as we provided here.

2065
01:20:12,829 --> 01:20:15,970
In contrast, where you've got studies where,

2066
01:20:16,829 --> 01:20:18,610
let's say you're looking at pain,

2067
01:20:19,844 --> 01:20:20,344
and,

2068
01:20:21,045 --> 01:20:23,064
there are a whole bunch of different preparations.

2069
01:20:23,284 --> 01:20:24,104
They might

2070
01:20:24,484 --> 01:20:27,524
be THC predominant, or they might be type

2071
01:20:27,524 --> 01:20:28,505
twos with

2072
01:20:29,069 --> 01:20:32,429
THC and CBD, different doses, different modes of

2073
01:20:32,429 --> 01:20:32,929
administration.

2074
01:20:33,869 --> 01:20:36,369
It's very hard to parse out

2075
01:20:36,845 --> 01:20:39,564
what's doing what, and you come up with

2076
01:20:39,564 --> 01:20:40,064
generalities

2077
01:20:40,604 --> 01:20:43,024
like cannabis helps with pain.

2078
01:20:43,805 --> 01:20:44,250
That's

2079
01:20:44,649 --> 01:20:45,710
nice, but,

2080
01:20:47,369 --> 01:20:50,189
science really demands more specificity.

2081
01:20:51,770 --> 01:20:53,149
And that's why

2082
01:20:53,984 --> 01:20:56,944
I believe that studies of this type where

2083
01:20:56,944 --> 01:20:58,164
we have a defined,

2084
01:20:59,505 --> 01:21:00,005
preparation,

2085
01:21:01,619 --> 01:21:04,500
we can it's it's much easier to to

2086
01:21:04,500 --> 01:21:06,039
make these claims,

2087
01:21:06,340 --> 01:21:07,560
particularly since

2088
01:21:08,064 --> 01:21:10,885
we had so many significant results.

2089
01:21:12,224 --> 01:21:14,724
I think that a lot of citizen scientists

2090
01:21:14,864 --> 01:21:15,604
and caregivers

2091
01:21:15,984 --> 01:21:16,804
like myself,

2092
01:21:17,380 --> 01:21:19,619
we we find ourselves running into an issue

2093
01:21:19,619 --> 01:21:20,119
where,

2094
01:21:21,380 --> 01:21:23,619
the studies that are being done right now

2095
01:21:23,619 --> 01:21:26,385
are being used are being done with isolate

2096
01:21:26,385 --> 01:21:29,125
because isolate is just a single molecule

2097
01:21:29,505 --> 01:21:30,405
of the cannabinoid

2098
01:21:31,425 --> 01:21:33,765
and, it's very specific

2099
01:21:35,109 --> 01:21:37,289
and and and it's also those studies

2100
01:21:38,149 --> 01:21:39,529
transition very easily

2101
01:21:39,829 --> 01:21:41,050
to to pharmaceutical

2102
01:21:41,350 --> 01:21:41,850
research.

2103
01:21:43,074 --> 01:21:46,135
Your research on the other hand, I, Harold,

2104
01:21:46,675 --> 01:21:49,715
because you have the audacity to use the

2105
01:21:49,715 --> 01:21:50,215
plant

2106
01:21:51,130 --> 01:21:53,789
as it's grown and using a whole resin

2107
01:21:54,250 --> 01:21:56,409
and using it in ways that that actual

2108
01:21:56,409 --> 01:21:59,469
patients, actual humans have been using it for

2109
01:21:59,914 --> 01:22:00,975
1000 of years,

2110
01:22:02,395 --> 01:22:05,195
but I can see that since you choose

2111
01:22:05,195 --> 01:22:06,574
to not use isolate,

2112
01:22:07,150 --> 01:22:10,270
you might get some pushback from either people

2113
01:22:10,270 --> 01:22:12,289
who wanna use your work for pharmaceutical

2114
01:22:12,909 --> 01:22:13,409
applications

2115
01:22:14,305 --> 01:22:16,625
or folks who just think that a a

2116
01:22:16,625 --> 01:22:17,604
plant resin

2117
01:22:17,984 --> 01:22:20,145
is too wild, if you will. There's too

2118
01:22:20,145 --> 01:22:22,625
many variables because there's cannabinoids that don't even

2119
01:22:22,625 --> 01:22:23,845
show up in the COA.

2120
01:22:24,500 --> 01:22:25,780
But but those of us who are into

2121
01:22:25,780 --> 01:22:27,780
whole plant medicine, we we still hold on

2122
01:22:27,780 --> 01:22:30,180
that that's where the future of cannabis medicine

2123
01:22:30,180 --> 01:22:30,680
is.

2124
01:22:31,060 --> 01:22:33,800
So, you know, as somebody, you,

2125
01:22:34,675 --> 01:22:37,234
who has been a long time proponent of

2126
01:22:37,234 --> 01:22:39,574
the entourage effect and whole plant medicine,

2127
01:22:40,755 --> 01:22:43,640
how do you see it personally as as

2128
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:46,380
why you choose to use whole plant medicine

2129
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:47,420
versus isolate?

2130
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,939
Well, the number one reason is I believe

2131
01:22:51,034 --> 01:22:53,774
in the synergy of the different components.

2132
01:22:54,954 --> 01:22:56,875
However, I've been on the other side of

2133
01:22:56,875 --> 01:22:58,734
the fence too. Keep in mind,

2134
01:22:59,500 --> 01:23:01,520
the study we just did with

2135
01:23:01,979 --> 01:23:02,479
limonene,

2136
01:23:03,739 --> 01:23:05,920
isolate with THC isolate.

2137
01:23:06,494 --> 01:23:07,715
Sometimes you require

2138
01:23:08,095 --> 01:23:10,195
a deconstruction and reconstruction

2139
01:23:11,295 --> 01:23:12,034
to understand

2140
01:23:12,494 --> 01:23:15,390
what the differences are. So I see a

2141
01:23:15,390 --> 01:23:17,810
a place for both in research.

2142
01:23:18,590 --> 01:23:20,050
When it comes to therapeutics,

2143
01:23:20,350 --> 01:23:22,449
I'm firmly in the camp that

2144
01:23:22,914 --> 01:23:25,734
you want an extract and not an isolate.

2145
01:23:26,675 --> 01:23:28,514
Right on. That sounds good for me, and

2146
01:23:28,514 --> 01:23:30,514
it seems to work best on, on the

2147
01:23:30,514 --> 01:23:32,289
things that we're trying to do with with

2148
01:23:32,289 --> 01:23:33,110
real people.

2149
01:23:33,810 --> 01:23:35,090
So, Ethan, do you have any, other,

2150
01:23:36,449 --> 01:23:38,850
summary or or impact that you would like

2151
01:23:38,850 --> 01:23:40,390
to share before we wrap up?

2152
01:23:41,125 --> 01:23:42,689
Doctor. Darrell Bock Sure. You know, going back

2153
01:23:42,689 --> 01:23:43,545
to the study,

2154
01:23:44,244 --> 01:23:46,984
that we did, I'd like to run through

2155
01:23:47,125 --> 01:23:48,724
some key points, if I may. Doctor. Darrell

2156
01:23:48,724 --> 01:23:50,005
Bock Please do. Yes. Doctor. Darrell Bock Okay.

2157
01:23:50,005 --> 01:23:53,180
So this was the first study of cannabagiol

2158
01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:56,060
looking at anxiety in humans.

2159
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,645
So we're very pleased with that, and it's

2160
01:23:59,885 --> 01:24:01,664
often a race against time

2161
01:24:02,204 --> 01:24:04,225
to get these things published before

2162
01:24:04,845 --> 01:24:05,824
somebody else

2163
01:24:06,204 --> 01:24:07,324
does it. So,

2164
01:24:08,045 --> 01:24:09,505
we're pleased with that.

2165
01:24:10,590 --> 01:24:11,649
So can Abigirl

2166
01:24:12,750 --> 01:24:14,850
reduced anxiety and stress

2167
01:24:15,469 --> 01:24:16,210
in this

2168
01:24:16,805 --> 01:24:17,545
sort of manufactured

2169
01:24:18,324 --> 01:24:18,824
setting.

2170
01:24:20,244 --> 01:24:22,425
You had asked about the degree.

2171
01:24:22,965 --> 01:24:25,465
I have another figure that we can utilize

2172
01:24:25,604 --> 01:24:26,104
here.

2173
01:24:26,449 --> 01:24:29,909
So there was an average decrease in 0.95

2174
01:24:30,930 --> 01:24:31,829
out of 10.

2175
01:24:34,244 --> 01:24:35,625
That's a 26%

2176
01:24:36,324 --> 01:24:36,824
reduction

2177
01:24:37,604 --> 01:24:38,585
in the anxiety

2178
01:24:39,045 --> 01:24:42,005
and stress scores that were already low to

2179
01:24:42,005 --> 01:24:42,850
begin with.

2180
01:24:43,890 --> 01:24:46,369
So, you know, what does this mean to

2181
01:24:46,369 --> 01:24:47,989
somebody who has a clinical

2182
01:24:48,369 --> 01:24:49,590
anxiety disorder?

2183
01:24:50,905 --> 01:24:53,085
We can't say from this, but

2184
01:24:53,545 --> 01:24:56,185
you know and I know from people that

2185
01:24:56,185 --> 01:24:58,284
have utilized CBG preparations

2186
01:24:59,050 --> 01:25:01,630
that they're usually very pleased with the results.

2187
01:25:02,969 --> 01:25:03,949
Another point,

2188
01:25:04,729 --> 01:25:07,710
in this study, CBG actually enhanced

2189
01:25:08,034 --> 01:25:08,854
verbal memory,

2190
01:25:09,475 --> 01:25:12,534
and it did that with no significant impairments

2191
01:25:12,755 --> 01:25:13,895
either in memory

2192
01:25:14,515 --> 01:25:15,895
or motor functioning,

2193
01:25:16,435 --> 01:25:16,935
that's

2194
01:25:17,530 --> 01:25:20,329
psychomotor speed and balance. That was what the

2195
01:25:20,329 --> 01:25:21,869
Druid app looked at.

2196
01:25:22,650 --> 01:25:23,630
So the CBG

2197
01:25:24,010 --> 01:25:26,175
drew Druid score was lower

2198
01:25:26,715 --> 01:25:28,335
and comparable to placebo

2199
01:25:29,195 --> 01:25:30,015
and baseline.

2200
01:25:31,914 --> 01:25:34,555
Again, we saw no evidence that CBG was

2201
01:25:34,555 --> 01:25:35,680
intoxicating. Intoxicating.

2202
01:25:36,779 --> 01:25:39,359
The intoxication and drug effect ratings

2203
01:25:39,739 --> 01:25:42,880
were under 1 on a 10 point scale,

2204
01:25:43,625 --> 01:25:45,005
and drug liking

2205
01:25:45,465 --> 01:25:47,644
remained neutral throughout the study.

2206
01:25:49,385 --> 01:25:51,324
And in terms of side effects,

2207
01:25:52,149 --> 01:25:55,769
negative drug effect ratings like dry eyes,

2208
01:25:56,630 --> 01:25:57,929
rapid heart rate,

2209
01:25:58,469 --> 01:25:59,369
dry mouth,

2210
01:26:00,104 --> 01:26:02,685
those remain low and did not

2211
01:26:03,145 --> 01:26:04,604
differ from placebo.

2212
01:26:05,704 --> 01:26:08,425
So all of these really indicate that this

2213
01:26:08,425 --> 01:26:10,550
seems to be have an extremely

2214
01:26:11,090 --> 01:26:12,229
benign profile

2215
01:26:12,850 --> 01:26:14,710
at the same time that it's producing

2216
01:26:15,170 --> 01:26:16,310
significant effects

2217
01:26:16,850 --> 01:26:18,229
on stress and anxiety.

2218
01:26:19,250 --> 01:26:21,635
Well, that's a great summary. And, you know,

2219
01:26:21,635 --> 01:26:23,635
on a on a real human level, I

2220
01:26:23,635 --> 01:26:25,875
can only imagine that you and doctor Cutler

2221
01:26:25,875 --> 01:26:28,260
are pretty stoked with how this survey turned

2222
01:26:28,260 --> 01:26:30,359
out or how the research turned out.

2223
01:26:31,219 --> 01:26:31,719
Yes.

2224
01:26:32,180 --> 01:26:35,219
We're definitely going on from here. We have

2225
01:26:35,219 --> 01:26:37,814
immediate plans for 2 more studies.

2226
01:26:39,314 --> 01:26:41,875
One would be similar to this, but done

2227
01:26:41,875 --> 01:26:42,935
in the lab,

2228
01:26:43,715 --> 01:26:45,175
which allows for

2229
01:26:45,619 --> 01:26:47,639
greater objective measures,

2230
01:26:48,579 --> 01:26:49,559
you know, measuring

2231
01:26:49,859 --> 01:26:51,239
blood pressure, measuring

2232
01:26:51,699 --> 01:26:52,199
cortisol,

2233
01:26:52,500 --> 01:26:53,559
a stress hormone,

2234
01:26:54,595 --> 01:26:57,235
measuring reactions to pain on a thing called

2235
01:26:57,235 --> 01:26:58,775
the cold presser test.

2236
01:26:59,315 --> 01:27:00,855
So that'll be up,

2237
01:27:01,395 --> 01:27:04,539
coming up. And we also have plans for

2238
01:27:04,539 --> 01:27:06,239
a clinical study,

2239
01:27:07,340 --> 01:27:07,840
where,

2240
01:27:08,539 --> 01:27:09,840
CBG preparation

2241
01:27:11,764 --> 01:27:13,385
would be looked at,

2242
01:27:15,125 --> 01:27:16,264
in terms of

2243
01:27:17,364 --> 01:27:18,744
an actual disorder.

2244
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:21,319
You mean like a what would like you'll

2245
01:27:21,319 --> 01:27:24,680
target 1? Yes. Exactly. I see. Good. Well,

2246
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,239
doctor Russo, thank you so much for being

2247
01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:29,465
a guest today again on Shaping Fire. I

2248
01:27:29,465 --> 01:27:31,064
mean you've been on the show so many

2249
01:27:31,064 --> 01:27:31,564
times

2250
01:27:32,344 --> 01:27:34,505
over over the years now I think this

2251
01:27:34,505 --> 01:27:36,844
is gonna be a 115th episode 115

2252
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:38,960
and every time you do, we learn we

2253
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,600
learn something new and great and and usually

2254
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:43,380
on the cusp of the science, so,

2255
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,404
we really appreciate you taking your very valuable

2256
01:27:46,404 --> 01:27:47,784
time and joining us

2257
01:27:48,404 --> 01:27:50,564
and and letting us know what the latest

2258
01:27:50,564 --> 01:27:52,505
is and what it means to us.

2259
01:27:53,399 --> 01:27:56,199
Well, always a pleasure. I really welcome this

2260
01:27:56,199 --> 01:27:56,699
opportunity.

2261
01:27:57,239 --> 01:27:58,920
So, dear listener, if you would like to

2262
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:01,479
follow along with doctor Russo's research, there are

2263
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:02,984
2 good places to do that.

2264
01:28:03,465 --> 01:28:05,385
The first one is you can follow along

2265
01:28:05,385 --> 01:28:09,005
with Doctor. Russo's research organization, Kratoscientific.

2266
01:28:09,465 --> 01:28:12,760
So that's credo, c r e d o,

2267
01:28:13,159 --> 01:28:13,659
dashscience.com.

2268
01:28:16,119 --> 01:28:18,380
Or in even better places to

2269
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:22,594
get familiar with doctor Russo's library of online

2270
01:28:23,295 --> 01:28:23,875
at ethanrusso.org.

2271
01:28:27,854 --> 01:28:29,614
You can find more episodes of the Shaping

2272
01:28:29,614 --> 01:28:31,840
Fire podcast and subscribe to the show at

2273
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:32,340
shapingfire.com

2274
01:28:33,119 --> 01:28:34,659
and wherever you get your podcasts.

2275
01:28:35,039 --> 01:28:36,800
If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate

2276
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:38,239
it if you would leave a positive review

2277
01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:40,100
of the podcast wherever you download.

2278
01:28:40,574 --> 01:28:42,494
Your review will help others find the show

2279
01:28:42,494 --> 01:28:44,494
so they can enjoy it too. On the

2280
01:28:44,494 --> 01:28:46,654
Shaping Fire website, you can also subscribe to

2281
01:28:46,654 --> 01:28:49,269
the newsletter for insights into the latest cannabis

2282
01:28:49,269 --> 01:28:51,529
news, exclusive videos, and giveaways.

2283
01:28:52,069 --> 01:28:53,989
On the Shaping Fire website, you'll also find

2284
01:28:53,989 --> 01:28:56,774
transcripts of today's podcast as well. Be sure

2285
01:28:56,774 --> 01:28:59,274
to follow on Instagram for all original content

2286
01:28:59,335 --> 01:29:00,554
not found on the podcast.

2287
01:29:00,935 --> 01:29:02,154
That's at shapingfire

2288
01:29:02,454 --> 01:29:04,475
and at shangolos on Instagram.

2289
01:29:04,890 --> 01:29:06,729
Be sure to check out the Shapingfire YouTube

2290
01:29:06,729 --> 01:29:09,530
channel for exclusive interviews, farm tours, and cannabis

2291
01:29:09,530 --> 01:29:10,030
lectures.

2292
01:29:10,569 --> 01:29:12,409
Does your company want to reach our national

2293
01:29:12,409 --> 01:29:13,869
audience of cannabis enthusiasts?

2294
01:29:14,664 --> 01:29:15,324
Email hotspot@shapingfire.com

2295
01:29:16,905 --> 01:29:18,985
to find out how. Thanks for listening to

2296
01:29:18,985 --> 01:29:22,125
Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.