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Cannabis is fabulous

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It cures and offers relief to humans every

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single day. It is a sacred plant. And

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you and I defend cannabis with unwavering dedication

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and heartfelt commitment.

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And yet, the truth of the matter is

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is that cannabis can be abused.

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Cannabis can make some people sick. And those

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cultivating cannabis can get really sick by inhaling

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cannabis bio aerosols.

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We don't really wanna admit it because so

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many people condemn cannabis falsely.

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I don't wanna give them an inch. And

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yet,

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we really do need to look at this

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new research.

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Because we should push for better cannabis workplace

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regulations to keep our friends safe who spend

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their days growing our beloved cannabis.

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If you wanna learn about cannabis health cultivation

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and technique, efficiently and with good cheer, I

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encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter. We'll

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You are listening to shaping fire, and I

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am your host, S Lo.

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Welcome to episode 115.

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Today, my guest is doctor Test Ed.

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Test Items doctor research focused on developing novel

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antibiotics against bacterial pathogens,

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and her scientific career has centered on bringing

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modern microbiology

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and Rna biology practices to promote human health.

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Leveraging her scientific

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expertise, doctor Ed transitioned into the cannabis industry

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where she spent 4 years working directly in

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cannabis production and quality management.

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This unique experience allowed her to combine her

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hands on skills and manufacturing

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with microbiology

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and product safety as a preventative controls qualified

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individual to help cannabis cult

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minimize potential hazards within their facilities and in

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their products.

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Having witnessed firsthand the challenges of microbial

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contamination in the cannabis industry Doctor Ide returned

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to the University of Colorado Boulder where she

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currently works as a senior research scientist in

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the aero and disinfection laboratory

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with a focus on practical building science.

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Her research investigates bio aerosol persistence

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associated with cannabis environments,

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including airborne molds, all and pathogens.

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She's driven to connect unbiased scientific research with

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environmental engineering principles and applying them to the

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cannabis space to improve worker well being, plant

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health and consumer safety. During the short first

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set, we will discuss the nature of bio

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aerosols. In the longer second set, we will

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discuss the threat matrix of cannabis bio aerosols,

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we will look at the various sources of

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fungal bacterial and viral bio aerosols and determine

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their threat levels to cannabis workers.

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And we will finish the episode considering actions

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that cannabis folk can use to keep themselves

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safe and mitigation actions employers in regulators can

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implement to decrease bio aerosol risk.

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Welcome to shaping fire tests.

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Good to be here. So let's get right

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into it. What's the difference between simply

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smelling cannabis and enjoying those aroma mat like

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we all do?

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Versus

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inhaling bio aerosols that can be harmful when

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in volume.

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It's a really good question.

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You know, and the

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the

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aroma that comes off of the cannabis, flower

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when you're breathing that in. It's a lot

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of the,

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vapor. So a lot of the gases is

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come off of the flower itself. So that's

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your volatile organic compounds, your V c's.

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That'll mostly be t and ester and

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give the those kind of classic aroma, you

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know, gas diesel,

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you know, fruity types of aroma,

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while, when you're breathing in bio aerosols, it's

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not just the gases that are present,

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but there's actually small particles floating around in

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the air

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that

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may contain biological

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materials at least in part, So that could

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be coming from microorganisms

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in the environment, it can be coming coming

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from the plant matter itself

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it can be from the substrates. It can

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be from humans.

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So there's a lot of different things that

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can

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be floating around in the cannabis environment that

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are actually bio aerosols. In addition to those

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vape

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that give aroma?

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Right on. So would would those vape that

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give the aroma? Would those also be a

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subset of bio aerosols? They're just not the

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bio aerosols that were concerned about or are

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they not actually considered bio aerosols because they

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don't have

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airborne particulate matter.

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That is a great question too. So the

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definition of an ara aerosol is it's it's

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gotta have that, that physical mass. It's in

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a in a solid form. So it's not

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a gas yes phase. So those

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aerosols are the particulate matter while

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V c's are going to be in gas

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space. So it's kind of like for example,

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a difference would be,

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when it's really humid out, that's water in

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its vapor phase. That's your relative humidity.

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But if I were to spray you with

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a a spritz,

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the... That little

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spritz is generating tiny little aerosols of water.

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So, like, tiny little

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droplets of water essentially. So that's the difference

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between it an aerosol and vapor. Right on.

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That that makes sense to me. And and

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it makes sense why it would

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potentially,

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injure the human body a lot more because

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the gas will, you know, we we we

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more easily

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gotten rid of by our human system then

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little chunks of stuff.

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That yeah easy to use the scientific terms,

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chunks of stuff. Chunks and stuff. I like

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it. We're gonna C for the chunks and

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stuff.

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We'd love to make acronyms and in science.

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Yeah. I mean, V c's can be potentially

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hard full, especially at high levels,

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but it has to be pretty high and

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different V... You know, V seasons is like

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grouping in tons of different an organic compound.

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So some may be at higher levels

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tend to be more irritants intense. Mh. Or

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if it comes in contact with your skin.

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You know, some people don't, you know, if

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you get, contact with, like, essential oils, most

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essential oils are

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t.

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And sometimes that can irritate people's skin or

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it can be soothing to some people. So

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it really just depends on

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a person's sen prioritization to those different compounds

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and the specific compounds that are part of

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those V. Right on understood.

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So

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during the introduction to this show,

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I, you know, I pointed out for folks

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that you are really on the cutting edge

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of this science,

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and that the research here is is just

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starting. And so, of course, I'm gonna be

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asking you to theo some as as the

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expert to help give us context.

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But but what I wanna ask about is,

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you know, how

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are these harms theoretical?

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Because as people who work in the cannabis

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industry, I mean, I know that when I

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work with the plants,

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when a lot of them touch my skin

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over the course of a day, I'll get

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you know, a rash or hive. So so

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I know my human does have a reaction

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to the plant, sometimes in ways that are

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less pleasant because those hive are a real

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drag.

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But but, you know, I've got lots of

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friends who work in the industry,

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but who don't complain about the kinds of

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issues that are in the study? Are are

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these harms more theoretical that they could happen?

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Or are we already seeing them in people

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who work in cannabis.

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Yeah. We are seeing it, in, you know,

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the limited reports that are out there.

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People do have that contact,

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dermatitis or, you know, they develop hive.

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From touching plants, that's why you'll usually see

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people where, like, sleeves during harvest,

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to protect their arms

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from that contact.

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And that could be

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the results of a lot of different things.

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It could be irritants from that plant. If

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could be developing allergies, which is a little

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less understood.

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And,

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then there's the rest

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exposures, which can also be harmful. And, you

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know, even though there's not a lot of

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data out there in the cannabis space,

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We know based on, you know, parallels in

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other industries, other agricultural settings

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that these agricultural dust,

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and those environments

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can generate,

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potentially harmful,

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aerosols or bio aerosols that,

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especially over the course of time and repeated

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exposures

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Some people tend to, you know, genetics plays

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a role on this too. So some folks

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may be more sen to some of these

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agents in the air.

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For all sorts of reasons.

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And so

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1 of the reasons why I think it's

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not as investigated

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in the cannabis space is because the cannabis

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industry is really

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relatively

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pretty new, you know, here in my home

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state of Colorado. It's been recreational legal since

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20 14. So, you know, we have, like,

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10, maybe 20 years of data. We're of,

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like, looking at some of these bio aerosols,

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but most of the recent reports have been

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within the last couple years, and it has

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to do with,

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you know, employees having adverse events at work

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to something in the air

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in these facilities.

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I'm sure that

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to... There is a not

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insignificant number of people who are not...

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Reporting as well. And and, you know, how

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can the how can those science capture

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the incidence is if the employer doesn't report

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it or if the employer doesn't report it

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or if there's nowhere to report it to.

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So in in your research, what are some

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of the main

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reasons you have found that that under reporting

274
00:10:57,671 --> 00:10:58,149
happens.

275
00:10:59,663 --> 00:11:01,893
Yeah. I think that's a really good question,

276
00:11:02,053 --> 00:11:03,983
and it's it's you know, my answer will

277
00:11:03,983 --> 00:11:06,701
be pretty speculative, but from my experience,

278
00:11:07,899 --> 00:11:09,518
you know, a lot of these

279
00:11:09,897 --> 00:11:10,877
cannabis companies

280
00:11:11,256 --> 00:11:11,756
because

281
00:11:12,215 --> 00:11:15,410
you know, cultivating and manufacturing cannabis is still

282
00:11:15,410 --> 00:11:16,283
federally illegal.

283
00:11:16,839 --> 00:11:19,801
There's kind of this con concept that

284
00:11:20,412 --> 00:11:21,548
you know, federal

285
00:11:22,892 --> 00:11:26,322
oversight on employee health standards and employee safety

286
00:11:26,322 --> 00:11:27,678
don't apply to,

287
00:11:28,475 --> 00:11:31,187
these cannabis companies, which is just untrue. Like,

288
00:11:31,586 --> 00:11:31,825
Osha,

289
00:11:33,273 --> 00:11:36,397
Osha regulations or the occupational safety and health

290
00:11:36,533 --> 00:11:40,111
administration, their standards and their regulations still apply

291
00:11:40,111 --> 00:11:41,781
in these cannabis operations.

292
00:11:42,833 --> 00:11:45,230
And then, you know, there's just in general,

293
00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:47,648
there's a kind of a stigma surrounding

294
00:11:48,106 --> 00:11:50,679
cannabis in general, you know, from reporting it

295
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,940
to your doctor that you use it to

296
00:11:53,399 --> 00:11:54,679
reporting incidents at work,

297
00:11:55,799 --> 00:11:58,375
especially some of, you know, unlike getting run

298
00:11:58,375 --> 00:12:00,615
over by a forklift or something like that

299
00:12:00,615 --> 00:12:03,274
or, you know, some of these maybe repeated

300
00:12:03,894 --> 00:12:04,394
motions

301
00:12:05,174 --> 00:12:07,023
that that are pretty typical of a lot

302
00:12:07,023 --> 00:12:09,730
of other manufacturing and cultivation environments,

303
00:12:11,084 --> 00:12:11,584
having

304
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,951
adverse events like respiratory distress,

305
00:12:14,602 --> 00:12:16,830
is not as well understood and,

306
00:12:17,466 --> 00:12:19,852
not everyone experiences is it exactly the same.

307
00:12:20,409 --> 00:12:20,909
So

308
00:12:21,779 --> 00:12:24,259
because, you know, some people may experience it

309
00:12:24,259 --> 00:12:26,500
other people in that exact same environment may

310
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,220
not experience, like shortness of breath or reasoning,

311
00:12:29,954 --> 00:12:31,814
or other, respiratory

312
00:12:32,115 --> 00:12:32,434
issues.

313
00:12:33,154 --> 00:12:34,754
They may feel like it might be in

314
00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:36,595
their head or if something's wrong with them

315
00:12:36,595 --> 00:12:39,320
or they're they just don't wanna be associated

316
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,071
with cannabis in in general,

317
00:12:41,628 --> 00:12:44,175
at least officially. And so they may not

318
00:12:44,175 --> 00:12:47,254
report it to their internal safety manager if

319
00:12:47,374 --> 00:12:48,512
if they have 1

320
00:12:49,287 --> 00:12:52,476
or to, like, you know, their state Osha

321
00:12:52,476 --> 00:12:53,295
or N

322
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:54,889
representatives.

323
00:12:56,079 --> 00:12:56,579
So

324
00:12:57,118 --> 00:12:58,796
in the second set, we're gonna talk more

325
00:12:58,796 --> 00:13:01,453
about the specific threats. But generally

326
00:13:01,832 --> 00:13:02,231
speaking,

327
00:13:04,083 --> 00:13:06,635
are these bio aerosols and the impact on

328
00:13:06,635 --> 00:13:08,628
on the humans who work there? Is this

329
00:13:08,628 --> 00:13:13,036
something that really only impacts those working in

330
00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:14,330
manufacturing

331
00:13:14,789 --> 00:13:17,990
commercial quantities of cannabis or or might these

332
00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:21,129
fungal spores and bacteria and plant materials

333
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,141
be at a high enough density in a

334
00:13:24,141 --> 00:13:27,395
cannabis patient's, home greenhouse or in their basement,

335
00:13:27,792 --> 00:13:30,271
say of, like, 20 or, like, let's say

336
00:13:30,271 --> 00:13:32,920
15 to 25 plants, which might be typical

337
00:13:32,977 --> 00:13:35,682
of of patient regardless what the losses that,

338
00:13:35,762 --> 00:13:37,134
you know, that's fairly typical.

339
00:13:37,615 --> 00:13:40,355
You know, could these bio aerosols

340
00:13:41,375 --> 00:13:41,875
exist

341
00:13:42,254 --> 00:13:44,335
at that low of a density or does

342
00:13:44,335 --> 00:13:47,226
it really have to be scaled commercial growing.

343
00:13:48,583 --> 00:13:50,977
You know, I think that this scaling, you

344
00:13:50,977 --> 00:13:53,073
know, just like anything else, scaling

345
00:13:53,770 --> 00:13:56,968
also your problem scales. So I would say

346
00:13:56,968 --> 00:13:59,457
that it's probably more likely that these

347
00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:03,451
you know, the diversity and the

348
00:14:03,907 --> 00:14:06,932
amount of bio aerosols in some of these

349
00:14:06,932 --> 00:14:07,432
indoor

350
00:14:07,808 --> 00:14:11,163
commercial operations, especially those that retrofitted buildings or

351
00:14:11,163 --> 00:14:13,465
maybe have proper Hvac design,

352
00:14:14,259 --> 00:14:15,212
and implementation,

353
00:14:15,847 --> 00:14:18,759
you probably are gonna see much higher levels

354
00:14:18,958 --> 00:14:21,903
of bio aerosols in those environments just because

355
00:14:21,903 --> 00:14:23,915
of the sheer number of

356
00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:26,461
plants and they're all, you know, trans

357
00:14:26,836 --> 00:14:29,101
and putting moisture in the air and

358
00:14:30,191 --> 00:14:30,691
the

359
00:14:31,145 --> 00:14:33,847
materials in those spaces may not be suitable

360
00:14:33,847 --> 00:14:34,801
for the high humidity,

361
00:14:35,596 --> 00:14:38,872
warm temperature conditions. And so you probably are

362
00:14:38,872 --> 00:14:40,704
seeing it more in those can in those

363
00:14:40,704 --> 00:14:44,208
environments, especially in cultivation and then maybe slightly

364
00:14:44,208 --> 00:14:45,902
different bio aerosols on

365
00:14:46,293 --> 00:14:47,270
the processing

366
00:14:47,725 --> 00:14:49,793
side of things. And, you know, when you're

367
00:14:49,793 --> 00:14:50,293
grinding

368
00:14:50,907 --> 00:14:53,029
you know, 50 pounds of flour a day

369
00:14:54,107 --> 00:14:55,862
you probably are gonna be exposed to a

370
00:14:55,862 --> 00:14:58,436
lot more of these bio aerosols than

371
00:14:59,611 --> 00:15:02,092
when you're just grinding up, you know, a

372
00:15:02,092 --> 00:15:03,546
pound that you harvested.

373
00:15:04,874 --> 00:15:07,441
You know, a couple weeks ago, and you're

374
00:15:07,577 --> 00:15:11,089
now trimming or grinding home. So it really

375
00:15:11,089 --> 00:15:13,496
does depend, and it depends on your unique

376
00:15:13,553 --> 00:15:14,904
home environment as well,

377
00:15:15,937 --> 00:15:18,819
really controlling the temperature and humidity. And then,

378
00:15:19,378 --> 00:15:20,276
if you do

379
00:15:21,052 --> 00:15:23,445
notice that you have respiratory distress when you're

380
00:15:23,445 --> 00:15:26,396
handling plant matter, especially dried plant matter,

381
00:15:27,525 --> 00:15:29,615
then I would just say at home

382
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:30,490
to

383
00:15:30,864 --> 00:15:33,169
wear, like, a a respirator, like, an n95.

384
00:15:33,328 --> 00:15:34,839
You know, we're... We're all pretty familiar with

385
00:15:34,839 --> 00:15:35,872
these things since Covid.

386
00:15:36,524 --> 00:15:38,924
But that will help to prevent being exposed

387
00:15:38,924 --> 00:15:41,004
to some of those potential particulate.

388
00:15:41,884 --> 00:15:43,325
And for goodness sakes, if you're doing this

389
00:15:43,325 --> 00:15:44,764
at home, we'll also at work.

390
00:15:45,499 --> 00:15:47,337
Use a use a hepa filter for goodness

391
00:15:47,337 --> 00:15:48,056
sakes. So,

392
00:15:49,015 --> 00:15:50,693
you know, we've got a we've got a

393
00:15:50,693 --> 00:15:53,251
a patient organization here on Fashion Island where

394
00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:56,142
I live, and at least until Covid, prior

395
00:15:56,142 --> 00:15:58,619
to Covid, we would all get together every

396
00:15:58,619 --> 00:15:59,897
fall and

397
00:16:00,696 --> 00:16:01,575
and trim together,

398
00:16:02,149 --> 00:16:02,649
And

399
00:16:03,428 --> 00:16:05,745
and when you've got that many people with

400
00:16:05,745 --> 00:16:08,382
that many plans from different places, you know,

401
00:16:08,542 --> 00:16:10,780
people were people would find themselves sneezing like,

402
00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:12,146
I don't sneeze are on my own plants,

403
00:16:12,304 --> 00:16:14,605
you know? But but everybody's growing in different

404
00:16:14,605 --> 00:16:16,827
ways. And so Mh. Just those just those

405
00:16:16,827 --> 00:16:19,948
very basic things like, like masking and gloves

406
00:16:19,948 --> 00:16:21,007
and a hepa filter

407
00:16:21,466 --> 00:16:24,183
for anybody who... Well, not only do do

408
00:16:24,183 --> 00:16:25,461
do you wanna use it for people who

409
00:16:25,461 --> 00:16:27,950
are sensitive, but it's it's really good to

410
00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:30,441
use that stuff even if you're not sensitive

411
00:16:30,658 --> 00:16:31,158
yet

412
00:16:31,534 --> 00:16:33,149
because so many people get

413
00:16:33,764 --> 00:16:37,201
become sensitive from repeat usage. Right? So so

414
00:16:37,201 --> 00:16:38,871
if somebody's listening to the show and they're

415
00:16:38,871 --> 00:16:41,018
feeling cocky, they're like, oh, there's none of

416
00:16:41,018 --> 00:16:42,847
this at my work environment. It's like, well,

417
00:16:43,006 --> 00:16:45,233
you might not just be sensitive yet. Right?

418
00:16:45,964 --> 00:16:49,073
Right. Yes. You can definitely develop allergies just

419
00:16:49,073 --> 00:16:50,828
like with anything else in your life, you

420
00:16:50,828 --> 00:16:53,799
know, you may not have allergies to gluten

421
00:16:53,858 --> 00:16:55,468
when you're young, but as you get older,

422
00:16:55,628 --> 00:16:56,426
you might develop them.

423
00:16:57,543 --> 00:17:00,097
And that's that's true for cannabis as well.

424
00:17:00,337 --> 00:17:03,391
You can develop allergies against cannabis. There's also

425
00:17:04,101 --> 00:17:06,165
potentially different molds that could be on the

426
00:17:06,165 --> 00:17:08,968
product or in the environment that could exacerbate

427
00:17:09,103 --> 00:17:11,484
that or you could potentially be allergic to

428
00:17:11,484 --> 00:17:12,699
those as well. So

429
00:17:13,088 --> 00:17:13,487
It's

430
00:17:13,965 --> 00:17:17,014
it's not very well understood, but there is

431
00:17:17,072 --> 00:17:18,107
evidence that

432
00:17:19,143 --> 00:17:22,352
that you can become sen to specific

433
00:17:22,981 --> 00:17:25,839
protein all from the cannabis plant itself.

434
00:17:26,554 --> 00:17:28,618
I wanna hit on, an answer you gave

435
00:17:28,618 --> 00:17:31,104
a little earlier about the the web of

436
00:17:31,318 --> 00:17:31,477
regulation.

437
00:17:32,527 --> 00:17:34,042
You know, I can imagine that the web

438
00:17:34,042 --> 00:17:37,311
of regulation regarding, you know, cannabis bio aerosols

439
00:17:37,311 --> 00:17:39,304
is a total mess since cannabis is still

440
00:17:39,304 --> 00:17:41,549
legal at the federal level. You've got some

441
00:17:41,549 --> 00:17:44,991
of the federal agencies that are not regulating

442
00:17:45,047 --> 00:17:47,751
it because it's not legal, but then you've

443
00:17:47,751 --> 00:17:51,099
got other federal agencies like Osha that that

444
00:17:51,099 --> 00:17:52,631
are still encouraging,

445
00:17:53,241 --> 00:17:55,621
you know, employee protection at these companies. But

446
00:17:55,621 --> 00:17:56,835
then you've got the states

447
00:17:57,222 --> 00:17:59,605
who have got who who are trying to

448
00:17:59,605 --> 00:18:00,081
normalize,

449
00:18:00,478 --> 00:18:01,987
like, I'm sure that most of them are

450
00:18:01,987 --> 00:18:03,972
trying to regulate it at some level, creating

451
00:18:03,972 --> 00:18:04,789
this patchwork,

452
00:18:06,529 --> 00:18:09,243
Is anything effective about this patchwork? Are we

453
00:18:09,243 --> 00:18:10,999
moving in the right direction or is it

454
00:18:10,999 --> 00:18:13,574
just going to be a mess until federal

455
00:18:13,872 --> 00:18:14,111
legalization?

456
00:18:15,244 --> 00:18:17,718
Well, I do think that the legal status

457
00:18:17,718 --> 00:18:20,533
of cannabis definitely makes it more challenging to

458
00:18:20,591 --> 00:18:24,200
provide baseline data and just basic research to

459
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,279
understand what's floating around in these diverse,

460
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,640
indoor environments and maybe maybe even mixed environments

461
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,599
like greenhouse,

462
00:18:31,729 --> 00:18:35,403
you know, the process of cannabis cultivation and

463
00:18:35,618 --> 00:18:39,031
process, you know, dry curing is pretty uniform

464
00:18:39,031 --> 00:18:40,636
every grow. I go I mean, there's slight

465
00:18:40,636 --> 00:18:43,106
variance on how each grower does it, but

466
00:18:43,106 --> 00:18:45,119
the process is pretty similar,

467
00:18:45,814 --> 00:18:47,885
but the environments in which those are grown

468
00:18:47,885 --> 00:18:50,604
in are usually very different friend from. I've

469
00:18:50,604 --> 00:18:53,539
been to old tuna factories that are now

470
00:18:53,539 --> 00:18:55,126
cannabis grows. I've been to.

471
00:18:55,999 --> 00:18:57,506
Like, state of the art, like,

472
00:18:58,479 --> 00:18:59,837
built in Japan,

473
00:19:00,637 --> 00:19:01,915
and then shipped over,

474
00:19:03,114 --> 00:19:03,614
Greenhouse.

475
00:19:04,632 --> 00:19:07,030
I've been into all these different types of

476
00:19:07,030 --> 00:19:07,430
settings.

477
00:19:08,002 --> 00:19:10,305
For cannabis cultivation. So it's all very diverse.

478
00:19:10,464 --> 00:19:12,847
And so that can also change the bio

479
00:19:12,847 --> 00:19:15,070
aerosols that are in those environments. And just

480
00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:15,785
in general,

481
00:19:16,341 --> 00:19:19,953
bio aerosols in indoor environments, you know, from

482
00:19:20,802 --> 00:19:21,699
you know, university

483
00:19:22,073 --> 00:19:23,978
indoor settings, like I'm at right now to

484
00:19:23,978 --> 00:19:24,613
home setting,

485
00:19:25,343 --> 00:19:27,334
home settings to other manufacturing settings.

486
00:19:28,289 --> 00:19:31,634
There's not that much that's, like, really understood,

487
00:19:31,794 --> 00:19:35,072
and there's definitely not standards that are, set

488
00:19:35,072 --> 00:19:35,946
by some of these,

489
00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:38,593
especially occupational safety

490
00:19:39,604 --> 00:19:41,615
standards. So there are

491
00:19:42,387 --> 00:19:43,285
there are definitely

492
00:19:44,075 --> 00:19:47,275
standard set for different poll, you know, different

493
00:19:47,275 --> 00:19:47,775
gases,

494
00:19:48,315 --> 00:19:49,674
for formaldehyde in the air.

495
00:19:50,554 --> 00:19:51,855
Ozone zone in the air

496
00:19:52,634 --> 00:19:56,666
but for for aerosols and bio aerosols, it's

497
00:19:56,726 --> 00:19:57,226
not

498
00:19:57,924 --> 00:20:00,103
the correlation between exposure

499
00:20:00,562 --> 00:20:03,926
and disease is much more challenging to establish.

500
00:20:04,482 --> 00:20:07,345
And so a lot of these organizations just

501
00:20:07,345 --> 00:20:10,628
don't have standards that our regulations

502
00:20:11,018 --> 00:20:13,165
on the amount of bio aerosols that can

503
00:20:13,165 --> 00:20:15,631
be found in an indoor environment any indoor

504
00:20:15,631 --> 00:20:15,949
environment.

505
00:20:16,824 --> 00:20:18,914
And, unfortunately, that that

506
00:20:19,703 --> 00:20:22,015
is compounding the challenges that we have in

507
00:20:22,015 --> 00:20:24,190
the cannabis space is that we just don't

508
00:20:24,487 --> 00:20:27,937
have many standards to protect people from

509
00:20:28,409 --> 00:20:31,309
high by bio aerosol loads in these built

510
00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:31,849
environments.

511
00:20:32,329 --> 00:20:34,649
Which all just makes the case for science

512
00:20:34,649 --> 00:20:35,690
like you're doing. Right?

513
00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:40,079
Yes. More data. Always more data. More data,

514
00:20:40,158 --> 00:20:42,300
so people course. So people can take more

515
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:43,728
action. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

516
00:20:44,299 --> 00:20:46,299
Well, okay. So so let's wrap up this

517
00:20:46,299 --> 00:20:48,779
first set. During the second set, which will

518
00:20:48,779 --> 00:20:50,619
be our by far, our biggest set today.

519
00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:52,674
We're gonna talk about the the threat made

520
00:20:52,794 --> 00:20:55,572
tricks of all these various bio aerosols and

521
00:20:55,572 --> 00:20:56,842
how they act independently.

522
00:20:57,398 --> 00:20:59,224
So make sure to come back after the

523
00:20:59,224 --> 00:21:01,938
break you are sending to shaping fire and

524
00:21:01,938 --> 00:21:03,311
my guest today is,

525
00:21:04,161 --> 00:21:06,860
test Eat them. And without these advertisers shaping

526
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:09,258
fire would not happened. So please support them

527
00:21:09,258 --> 00:21:10,689
and let them know that you heard them

528
00:21:10,689 --> 00:21:11,643
on shaping fire.

529
00:21:14,664 --> 00:21:16,492
You've heard me talk about the award winning

530
00:21:16,492 --> 00:21:19,216
cannabis seeds that come from analytical breeding program

531
00:21:19,216 --> 00:21:21,691
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532
00:21:21,850 --> 00:21:24,724
Cbd seeds. In fact, Seth was a guest

533
00:21:24,724 --> 00:21:27,209
on shaping fire in 20 20 to talk

534
00:21:27,209 --> 00:21:28,397
about trip genetics.

535
00:21:29,427 --> 00:21:31,908
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536
00:21:32,042 --> 00:21:34,675
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537
00:21:34,675 --> 00:21:38,335
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538
00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:42,573
Their high thc seeds are extraordinary and that

539
00:21:42,573 --> 00:21:44,650
they will start to flower at 16 and

540
00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:46,109
a half hours of daylight

541
00:21:46,568 --> 00:21:48,406
instead of the typical 14 and a half

542
00:21:48,406 --> 00:21:49,205
hours of daylight.

543
00:21:49,699 --> 00:21:52,575
That means in most regions, your plants will

544
00:21:52,575 --> 00:21:54,413
start to flower outdoors in the middle of

545
00:21:54,653 --> 00:21:55,153
July

546
00:21:55,611 --> 00:21:56,890
instead of the middle of August.

547
00:21:57,303 --> 00:21:59,605
Which means these photo period plants finished in

548
00:21:59,923 --> 00:22:01,772
September and not October

549
00:22:02,146 --> 00:22:04,527
totally up ending the photo period seed market.

550
00:22:05,418 --> 00:22:08,052
Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering

551
00:22:08,212 --> 00:22:10,207
Cv g line and bred it to some

552
00:22:10,207 --> 00:22:13,080
of the most desired verified genetics out there.

553
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Including sour diesel, triangle c, wedding cake, chem

554
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dogs, skittles and others.

555
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These crosses all express powerful photo period tu

556
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profiles and t see giving you a great

557
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high.

558
00:22:25,951 --> 00:22:29,461
Gt seeds has a new Thc line with

559
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plants like double du and Giga

560
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that boast 1 to 1 Thc to Thc

561
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and people want that Thc.

562
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G

563
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are very consistent, true growing in bread f

564
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f1 from stabilized in bread parent lines, these

565
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seeds are nearly homogeneous and the plants should

566
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all grow the same. There is only 1

567
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phenotype in every pack, available as dip lloyd

568
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and trip.

569
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Seth eric's company is still family owned, patient

570
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employee centric and partially powered by their 2

571
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acres of solar panels.

572
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Everyone can purchase these seeds in the entire

573
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catalog of Oregon Cbd seeds at GTR

574
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seeds dot com. Go to GTR seeds dot

575
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com today and choose something revolutionary for your

576
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next indoor or outdoor run.

577
00:23:21,255 --> 00:23:23,711
Fish poop brand fertilizer is an all natural

578
00:23:23,711 --> 00:23:25,772
fish poop concentrate with nothing added.

579
00:23:26,424 --> 00:23:28,739
Real fish poop is extraordinarily complex.

580
00:23:29,377 --> 00:23:31,793
Not only are you adding the nitrogen, pho

581
00:23:31,852 --> 00:23:33,928
and potassium, your plants need to build mass,

582
00:23:34,087 --> 00:23:35,938
transport nutrients in hand flavor,

583
00:23:36,497 --> 00:23:39,073
but fish waste is also packed with biological

584
00:23:39,451 --> 00:23:40,888
activity and micron nutrients.

585
00:23:41,606 --> 00:23:44,080
When you add fish poop to your irrigation

586
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,007
water, you are adding life force,

587
00:23:46,644 --> 00:23:48,316
probiotics and active microbes.

588
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These microorganisms

589
00:23:50,306 --> 00:23:52,637
include a wealth of various bacteria and pro

590
00:23:52,949 --> 00:23:55,906
which further enhance nutrient availability for the plants.

591
00:23:57,104 --> 00:23:59,421
Because plants are limited by the absence of

592
00:23:59,421 --> 00:24:02,623
any essential micron nutrient These trace nutrients are

593
00:24:02,623 --> 00:24:05,165
the difference between having a decent garden and

594
00:24:05,165 --> 00:24:06,913
having a garden that makes you feel really

595
00:24:06,913 --> 00:24:07,787
proud of your efforts.

596
00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:11,534
Fish poop is a naturally complete solution that

597
00:24:11,534 --> 00:24:13,781
fills in the cracks in your fertilizer program

598
00:24:13,837 --> 00:24:16,299
to ensure you offer your garden a broad

599
00:24:16,299 --> 00:24:17,172
base of nutrients.

600
00:24:17,984 --> 00:24:20,144
Not all fish poop is created equally.

601
00:24:20,705 --> 00:24:23,424
Most products with added fish waste don't reveal

602
00:24:23,424 --> 00:24:25,105
their sources or lab results.

603
00:24:25,758 --> 00:24:29,024
Fish poop brand fish poop, However, generates their

604
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own fish waste as a byproduct of their

605
00:24:31,334 --> 00:24:34,042
organic Aqua po cannabis farm where they raise

606
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ornamental koi and Ti.

607
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You are even invited to tour their farm

608
00:24:38,423 --> 00:24:40,565
in person or on their Youtube channel to

609
00:24:40,565 --> 00:24:41,359
look for yourself.

610
00:24:42,088 --> 00:24:44,394
This sort of transparency is wildly rare in

611
00:24:44,394 --> 00:24:45,508
the fertilizer market.

612
00:24:46,303 --> 00:24:49,166
The folks behind fish poop are also lifelong

613
00:24:49,166 --> 00:24:52,363
medical cannabis producers who have deep in the

614
00:24:52,363 --> 00:24:52,761
community,

615
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:56,109
donate more product than they sell and support

616
00:24:56,109 --> 00:24:59,456
cannabis prisoner, veteran and patient collective and charities.

617
00:25:00,349 --> 00:25:02,584
To get your bottle of pure fish poop,

618
00:25:02,983 --> 00:25:05,138
go to fish poop dot com. And to

619
00:25:05,138 --> 00:25:07,533
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620
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621
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poop, brand, fish poop.

622
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647
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649
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669
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670
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:11,293
Welcome back. You are listening to shaping fire.

671
00:27:11,453 --> 00:27:14,100
I am your host tango los. And my

672
00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:15,398
guest is micro

673
00:27:15,775 --> 00:27:18,328
test Eat. So before the break, we talked

674
00:27:18,328 --> 00:27:19,546
mostly about

675
00:27:20,016 --> 00:27:23,503
the framework, what bio aerosols are and and

676
00:27:23,503 --> 00:27:26,198
and the real harm that's happening to folks

677
00:27:26,198 --> 00:27:26,936
in cannabis

678
00:27:27,244 --> 00:27:28,997
and the fact that there really isn't any

679
00:27:28,997 --> 00:27:31,626
good research on this yet. And so the

680
00:27:31,626 --> 00:27:33,777
this this preliminary and and, like, you know,

681
00:27:34,176 --> 00:27:37,377
not not preliminary, but but this original research

682
00:27:37,377 --> 00:27:39,846
that we're talking about today is shining a

683
00:27:39,846 --> 00:27:42,156
light on something that needs to be looked

684
00:27:42,156 --> 00:27:43,452
at much more closely

685
00:27:43,924 --> 00:27:46,005
long term for our friends who work in

686
00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:46,404
cannabis.

687
00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:49,445
So tests, you know, we're during the first

688
00:27:49,445 --> 00:27:51,445
that we talked about bio aerosols that are

689
00:27:51,445 --> 00:27:52,585
created during cannabis

690
00:27:52,884 --> 00:27:55,687
cultivation, and and we gave a definition, but

691
00:27:55,687 --> 00:27:59,109
what are these bio aerosols that were that

692
00:27:59,109 --> 00:28:00,462
were wanna be so aware of?

693
00:28:02,073 --> 00:28:04,790
Yeah. So, yeah, with Covid, I think more

694
00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:06,488
folks are a little bit more

695
00:28:07,906 --> 00:28:09,836
educated on this just with the base understanding

696
00:28:09,836 --> 00:28:10,951
and a lot of times when we think

697
00:28:10,951 --> 00:28:13,420
of bio aerosols, we think of these intact

698
00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:13,920
micro.

699
00:28:14,456 --> 00:28:15,434
So we've got

700
00:28:15,810 --> 00:28:16,708
intact viruses

701
00:28:17,084 --> 00:28:18,794
or intact back bacteria

702
00:28:19,411 --> 00:28:22,762
or fact, like mold spores that are floating

703
00:28:22,762 --> 00:28:23,640
around either,

704
00:28:24,518 --> 00:28:25,497
you know, from

705
00:28:25,968 --> 00:28:28,751
from the... From, like, a moldy part of

706
00:28:28,751 --> 00:28:29,251
the

707
00:28:29,625 --> 00:28:31,851
environment that you're in and they're releasing those

708
00:28:31,851 --> 00:28:32,351
fours

709
00:28:32,805 --> 00:28:35,603
or it could be generated when let's say

710
00:28:35,603 --> 00:28:38,388
your watering or there's aerosol utilization of water

711
00:28:38,388 --> 00:28:39,763
that contains some of these microorganisms

712
00:28:40,138 --> 00:28:42,526
or, you know, in disease transmission, we talk

713
00:28:42,526 --> 00:28:44,378
about a lot, the air aerosols that are

714
00:28:44,378 --> 00:28:47,355
created when we're talking to each other, breathing

715
00:28:47,415 --> 00:28:47,814
normally.

716
00:28:48,693 --> 00:28:50,931
And so all of that can generate bio

717
00:28:50,931 --> 00:28:53,421
aerosols and environment. And in the cannabis space.

718
00:28:54,059 --> 00:28:56,850
It's, there has been some research that's been

719
00:28:56,850 --> 00:28:59,401
done to kinda try to get an understanding

720
00:28:59,401 --> 00:29:01,315
of what's actually floating around in the air.

721
00:29:01,569 --> 00:29:02,866
It comes to these biological

722
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:04,380
organisms.

723
00:29:04,836 --> 00:29:05,336
And

724
00:29:05,872 --> 00:29:08,343
from an industrial hygiene perspective, a lot of

725
00:29:08,343 --> 00:29:08,662
times,

726
00:29:09,554 --> 00:29:11,707
what, what people will do is they'll go

727
00:29:11,707 --> 00:29:14,099
into facilities, and they'll sample, you know, they'll

728
00:29:14,099 --> 00:29:17,129
take a certain volume of air, and they'll

729
00:29:17,129 --> 00:29:18,246
do a lot of counting.

730
00:29:18,739 --> 00:29:21,134
So they'll count the number of molds spores

731
00:29:21,134 --> 00:29:23,369
and try to bin them into different groups

732
00:29:23,369 --> 00:29:24,087
of molds,

733
00:29:24,965 --> 00:29:27,541
or they'll they'll take that air sample

734
00:29:27,855 --> 00:29:30,894
and they'll culture it on petri dishes and

735
00:29:30,894 --> 00:29:33,855
be able to get a number of viable

736
00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:34,355
microorganisms

737
00:29:34,894 --> 00:29:36,674
or colony forming unit Cf,

738
00:29:37,134 --> 00:29:39,699
which might sound familiar to those folks who

739
00:29:39,699 --> 00:29:41,849
know anything about cannabis testing, See cf if

740
00:29:41,849 --> 00:29:44,397
you also used to en viable microbes on

741
00:29:44,397 --> 00:29:47,201
the cannabis flower itself. But the Cf few

742
00:29:47,201 --> 00:29:47,861
of microorganisms

743
00:29:48,239 --> 00:29:49,995
can be in the air as well. And

744
00:29:49,995 --> 00:29:52,868
so you think about those intact microorganisms, those

745
00:29:52,868 --> 00:29:53,767
viable microorganisms

746
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,840
And then there's also,

747
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,000
their breakdown products,

748
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,200
so they're meta metabolized. They can secret into

749
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,900
the environment, different meta metabolize

750
00:30:03,294 --> 00:30:05,214
they can break down over time and so

751
00:30:05,214 --> 00:30:07,615
these micro bits and pieces can end up

752
00:30:07,615 --> 00:30:08,494
being in the air,

753
00:30:09,214 --> 00:30:12,029
especially if it's part of these agricultural dust

754
00:30:12,029 --> 00:30:14,429
that may settle, but then become more airborne

755
00:30:14,429 --> 00:30:17,869
during, you know, normal work environment conditions and

756
00:30:17,869 --> 00:30:19,390
and activities in that environment.

757
00:30:20,441 --> 00:30:21,895
And those microbial meta

758
00:30:22,350 --> 00:30:23,168
can include

759
00:30:23,861 --> 00:30:26,747
different types of toxins, They can include

760
00:30:27,613 --> 00:30:31,183
just immune act, Your immune system, over billions

761
00:30:31,183 --> 00:30:32,056
of years has,

762
00:30:32,850 --> 00:30:33,746
really developed

763
00:30:34,611 --> 00:30:37,471
a way to identify something that's foreign, especially

764
00:30:37,471 --> 00:30:40,252
if it's bacterial or fungal. It's like, that's

765
00:30:40,252 --> 00:30:42,080
not me, and I'm going to mount a

766
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,638
response at that And then there's these other,

767
00:30:45,593 --> 00:30:47,444
different types of protein

768
00:30:48,216 --> 00:30:48,716
components

769
00:30:49,091 --> 00:30:49,909
that typically

770
00:30:50,283 --> 00:30:52,056
are what we call all.

771
00:30:52,763 --> 00:30:54,830
And those activate a different branch of our

772
00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:57,295
of the immune system, and that's where we

773
00:30:57,295 --> 00:30:59,919
get, you know, the stereotypical allergies from, you

774
00:30:59,919 --> 00:31:01,271
know, when there's a lot of poll in

775
00:31:01,271 --> 00:31:01,827
the air,

776
00:31:03,351 --> 00:31:05,175
or if you're allergic to cats or dogs

777
00:31:05,175 --> 00:31:07,397
and you go into somebody's house and they

778
00:31:07,397 --> 00:31:09,698
have caps, you're gonna be breathing in, sort

779
00:31:09,698 --> 00:31:09,856
of,

780
00:31:10,903 --> 00:31:13,929
you know, the protein all from those cats

781
00:31:13,929 --> 00:31:15,601
and dogs, and those can also be present,

782
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,512
not necessarily cats and dogs that I have

783
00:31:17,512 --> 00:31:18,786
seen a dog and a grow before.

784
00:31:20,075 --> 00:31:22,145
Yeah. That is... I've definitely seen that. Yeah.

785
00:31:22,384 --> 00:31:22,884
Yeah

786
00:31:23,977 --> 00:31:26,206
But, you know, from any molds that are

787
00:31:26,206 --> 00:31:27,241
in that environment,

788
00:31:28,212 --> 00:31:30,366
they can definitely produce lots of different types

789
00:31:30,366 --> 00:31:31,083
of all,

790
00:31:31,642 --> 00:31:34,672
and the cannabis plant itself can also produce

791
00:31:34,672 --> 00:31:36,880
different all. So those are kind of the

792
00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:39,073
you know, it spreads the entire,

793
00:31:40,508 --> 00:31:44,176
spectrum from these intact organisms, some of which

794
00:31:44,176 --> 00:31:45,952
may be harmful and pathogenic.

795
00:31:46,744 --> 00:31:48,582
And then all the way down to down

796
00:31:48,582 --> 00:31:51,319
products or bits and pieces or meta

797
00:31:51,698 --> 00:31:53,695
that can also be harmful in different ways.

798
00:31:55,225 --> 00:31:55,725
So

799
00:31:56,339 --> 00:31:56,896
I wanted

800
00:31:57,374 --> 00:31:59,841
shine our light for a moment on on

801
00:31:59,841 --> 00:32:01,694
the measurement standard Cf.

802
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,145
Because, you know, when you were

803
00:32:04,779 --> 00:32:07,316
originally answering the question, you were talking about,

804
00:32:08,742 --> 00:32:09,242
intact

805
00:32:11,226 --> 00:32:13,062
fungal spores and such. And I was thinking

806
00:32:13,062 --> 00:32:15,058
about intact. What does she mean about intact?

807
00:32:15,218 --> 00:32:17,772
And I'm like, oh, it it probably relates

808
00:32:17,772 --> 00:32:18,672
to Cf

809
00:32:19,383 --> 00:32:21,770
which which I didn't really mean...

810
00:32:23,042 --> 00:32:24,872
I didn't really rocket it very well until

811
00:32:25,031 --> 00:32:27,518
I read your paper because I think there

812
00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:29,676
was something about the the new fear about

813
00:32:29,676 --> 00:32:31,434
it, because when I'm talking when I'm when

814
00:32:31,594 --> 00:32:32,094
I'm

815
00:32:32,952 --> 00:32:35,110
talking with folks about cannabis testing and I

816
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:37,357
talk about Cf you. It doesn't it doesn't

817
00:32:37,357 --> 00:32:39,267
really seem like a threat. But when I

818
00:32:39,267 --> 00:32:41,337
read your paper and I read about Cf.

819
00:32:41,496 --> 00:32:43,008
And for those of you who don't know,

820
00:32:43,167 --> 00:32:43,986
it's colony

821
00:32:44,361 --> 00:32:44,861
forming

822
00:32:45,237 --> 00:32:45,555
units.

823
00:32:46,682 --> 00:32:50,016
Now it's totally sounds like alien invasion. And

824
00:32:50,016 --> 00:32:52,160
and and I'm like, wow, Like, in in

825
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,645
the cultivation space, there are these

826
00:32:55,114 --> 00:32:56,972
you know, these these these

827
00:32:57,910 --> 00:32:59,688
fungal spores and

828
00:33:00,067 --> 00:33:00,966
different biology

829
00:33:01,425 --> 00:33:04,300
that are floating around and they are alive,

830
00:33:04,538 --> 00:33:07,236
and they could form colonies and I'm breathing

831
00:33:07,236 --> 00:33:09,855
them in, and that seems super creepy to

832
00:33:09,855 --> 00:33:10,014
me.

833
00:33:10,983 --> 00:33:13,058
And I I think that it really kinda

834
00:33:13,058 --> 00:33:13,558
shines

835
00:33:13,936 --> 00:33:16,809
a light on our conversation in a different

836
00:33:16,809 --> 00:33:19,453
way, which which I think that could people

837
00:33:19,453 --> 00:33:22,736
could make this conversation kind of like, intellectual

838
00:33:23,508 --> 00:33:26,394
and get really into just the data

839
00:33:26,783 --> 00:33:29,742
and not realize that really we're talking about,

840
00:33:30,115 --> 00:33:31,487
like like, 1

841
00:33:32,811 --> 00:33:33,311
variety

842
00:33:33,779 --> 00:33:34,920
of living biology,

843
00:33:35,299 --> 00:33:37,160
coming in contact with another

844
00:33:37,859 --> 00:33:40,259
variety of living biology being us.

845
00:33:40,993 --> 00:33:43,721
And Right and, like, how are these 2

846
00:33:44,175 --> 00:33:47,197
biology gonna interact? Are they, you know, is

847
00:33:47,197 --> 00:33:49,998
our immune system just gonna squash them? Or

848
00:33:49,998 --> 00:33:52,231
are they gonna, like, ruin our whole week

849
00:33:52,231 --> 00:33:54,623
or or longer by by, you know,

850
00:33:55,421 --> 00:33:57,893
forming these colonies. Right? That we... That we

851
00:33:57,893 --> 00:33:58,771
refer to in the standard?

852
00:34:00,142 --> 00:34:02,614
And so I I just add that to

853
00:34:02,614 --> 00:34:04,151
to to make these

854
00:34:05,884 --> 00:34:06,384
microbiology

855
00:34:07,798 --> 00:34:08,298
sized

856
00:34:09,727 --> 00:34:10,546
living organisms

857
00:34:11,322 --> 00:34:13,396
seem more real because as soon as you

858
00:34:13,396 --> 00:34:14,534
start talking about Cf,

859
00:34:15,869 --> 00:34:17,144
it really gives them a lot more in

860
00:34:17,144 --> 00:34:18,501
of aggressive personality.

861
00:34:20,112 --> 00:34:22,666
Yeah. Because they're alive, you know, because when

862
00:34:22,666 --> 00:34:23,304
you look at,

863
00:34:24,022 --> 00:34:25,619
a comparison. So if you... If I were

864
00:34:25,619 --> 00:34:27,969
to take a set volume of air, and

865
00:34:28,425 --> 00:34:30,120
look at that error

866
00:34:30,576 --> 00:34:33,126
that I collected either on a filter or

867
00:34:33,126 --> 00:34:34,614
there's lots of different ways to collect

868
00:34:35,133 --> 00:34:36,112
bio biological,

869
00:34:36,809 --> 00:34:38,884
particulate from the air that will, you know,

870
00:34:39,203 --> 00:34:39,682
preserve it.

871
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,208
Sometimes that infection can kill micro So you

872
00:34:43,208 --> 00:34:46,159
got... Your collection method is really important when

873
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:47,457
you're trying to evaluate

874
00:34:47,834 --> 00:34:50,387
certain especially viable microorganisms in the air.

875
00:34:51,822 --> 00:34:52,322
And

876
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:55,020
And when you're pulling that out of there,

877
00:34:55,179 --> 00:34:56,293
if I were to look at mold spores,

878
00:34:56,372 --> 00:34:58,042
for example. I could count the number of

879
00:34:58,042 --> 00:34:59,791
mold spores, but not all those mold spores

880
00:34:59,791 --> 00:35:01,881
are actually gonna turn into a viable

881
00:35:02,669 --> 00:35:04,580
colony forming unit kind of like how when

882
00:35:04,580 --> 00:35:06,811
you're growing plants, not all your seeds Germ.

883
00:35:07,368 --> 00:35:07,607
So,

884
00:35:08,244 --> 00:35:10,554
it's really actually a pretty low amount. It's

885
00:35:10,554 --> 00:35:11,431
about 1 percent.

886
00:35:12,163 --> 00:35:15,217
Of mold spores will actually, like, sp

887
00:35:15,595 --> 00:35:16,095
into

888
00:35:16,473 --> 00:35:18,148
a viable colony forming unit.

889
00:35:19,186 --> 00:35:21,827
And so you get a slightly different answer,

890
00:35:21,985 --> 00:35:24,291
but those mold spores could still potentially be

891
00:35:24,291 --> 00:35:26,619
harmful even though they're not alive

892
00:35:27,312 --> 00:35:29,553
because of these other microbial meta tablets that

893
00:35:29,553 --> 00:35:31,305
could be on those fours are associated with

894
00:35:31,305 --> 00:35:32,282
them, like all.

895
00:35:32,897 --> 00:35:34,649
And then even if they are alive, they

896
00:35:34,649 --> 00:35:37,458
may not really be harmful to most people

897
00:35:38,484 --> 00:35:39,698
if they're not pathogens,

898
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:41,207
meaning they don't

899
00:35:41,659 --> 00:35:43,906
really cause disease. They don't have the capability

900
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,423
to to really infect a human.

901
00:35:47,554 --> 00:35:49,635
They may not they may be a pathogen,

902
00:35:49,795 --> 00:35:51,394
but maybe they're not very good at being

903
00:35:51,394 --> 00:35:54,195
transmitted through the route of inhalation. So some

904
00:35:54,195 --> 00:35:54,695
microorganisms

905
00:35:54,994 --> 00:35:56,170
are are better at

906
00:35:56,923 --> 00:35:59,463
you know, being breathe in and and being

907
00:35:59,463 --> 00:36:01,526
transferred from 1 person to another, like many

908
00:36:01,526 --> 00:36:04,224
viruses are are transferred that way.

909
00:36:04,954 --> 00:36:07,849
You know, legion air disease, that's bacterium

910
00:36:08,226 --> 00:36:10,541
that can be transferred in the air and

911
00:36:10,541 --> 00:36:11,339
and spread disease,

912
00:36:11,978 --> 00:36:13,095
usually from water.

913
00:36:14,621 --> 00:36:15,598
And then there's

914
00:36:15,971 --> 00:36:17,822
there... So some some

915
00:36:18,275 --> 00:36:20,181
just weren't really good at being

916
00:36:20,657 --> 00:36:23,692
transmitted by disease through the air. But those

917
00:36:23,692 --> 00:36:24,351
that are

918
00:36:24,887 --> 00:36:28,015
could potentially be harmful, especially to a subset

919
00:36:28,072 --> 00:36:30,382
of people who may have a compromised immune

920
00:36:30,382 --> 00:36:32,708
system. You know, you do have an immune

921
00:36:32,708 --> 00:36:34,782
system, a resident immune system in your lung.

922
00:36:35,819 --> 00:36:38,053
I'm not an epidemiologist, but my coa author

923
00:36:38,132 --> 00:36:38,851
Tara Nor.

924
00:36:39,822 --> 00:36:41,974
Who who helped me with the paper she

925
00:36:41,974 --> 00:36:45,402
is. She actually studies lung immunology, especially in

926
00:36:45,402 --> 00:36:46,916
response to agricultural dust.

927
00:36:47,727 --> 00:36:51,467
And so these these viable pathogens could potentially

928
00:36:51,467 --> 00:36:54,012
be harmful to those folks who are immune

929
00:36:54,012 --> 00:36:56,735
compromised, and that's where you may see like,

930
00:36:57,295 --> 00:37:00,094
you know, in particular, ask asp jealous fu

931
00:37:00,094 --> 00:37:00,414
goddess,

932
00:37:01,215 --> 00:37:02,195
it's a world held

933
00:37:02,494 --> 00:37:04,675
organization, critical priority fungal pathogen,

934
00:37:05,628 --> 00:37:07,146
it could potentially,

935
00:37:07,786 --> 00:37:09,463
if it's in the air, which it's very

936
00:37:09,463 --> 00:37:11,540
common in the air in many different environments,

937
00:37:12,590 --> 00:37:15,129
if you are a particularly sensitive person or

938
00:37:15,129 --> 00:37:17,429
have a, compromised immune system,

939
00:37:18,064 --> 00:37:20,309
there could be a chance that exposure could

940
00:37:20,937 --> 00:37:23,646
result in some type of asp gill related

941
00:37:23,646 --> 00:37:26,036
disease, which can come in a variety of

942
00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:27,310
different flavors from

943
00:37:27,724 --> 00:37:28,224
asp,

944
00:37:28,682 --> 00:37:31,018
which is that active fungal infection of

945
00:37:31,476 --> 00:37:31,976
to

946
00:37:32,434 --> 00:37:33,573
different hyper sensitivities

947
00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:36,585
to asp gill. And again, that has to

948
00:37:36,585 --> 00:37:39,170
do with exposure to those all.

949
00:37:40,339 --> 00:37:41,691
When we get to that part of the

950
00:37:41,691 --> 00:37:44,576
study where lists, all of the Latin names

951
00:37:44,632 --> 00:37:46,480
of all of the things that could go

952
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,634
wrong with you. It it does seem like

953
00:37:48,634 --> 00:37:50,388
a threat. You know? I'm I'm like, are

954
00:37:50,388 --> 00:37:51,744
you threatening me? You know? It's like,

955
00:37:52,542 --> 00:37:53,818
these are on none of these things are

956
00:37:53,818 --> 00:37:55,506
things that I wanna get from my plants.

957
00:37:55,983 --> 00:37:58,048
And I think that for most people when

958
00:37:58,048 --> 00:38:00,351
they're when they when they're... When they they

959
00:38:00,351 --> 00:38:01,782
say, oh, there's there can be things in

960
00:38:01,782 --> 00:38:03,132
the air at the in the grow.

961
00:38:03,942 --> 00:38:06,246
Most people are just assuming that these are

962
00:38:06,246 --> 00:38:09,027
things that are drifting off of the plant.

963
00:38:09,345 --> 00:38:12,300
Right? But it it was really remarkable to

964
00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:14,945
me to read all of the different sources

965
00:38:15,081 --> 00:38:15,740
that you

966
00:38:16,114 --> 00:38:17,862
identify in the paper.

967
00:38:18,594 --> 00:38:20,190
1234567.

968
00:38:20,349 --> 00:38:22,186
Like, like, there's at least 8 or 9

969
00:38:22,186 --> 00:38:22,585
of them.

970
00:38:23,463 --> 00:38:24,580
We don't have to go through them all.

971
00:38:24,819 --> 00:38:26,949
But would you review, you know, a handful

972
00:38:27,068 --> 00:38:28,817
them for us because what I'm hoping to

973
00:38:28,817 --> 00:38:31,358
get out of this question is people to

974
00:38:31,358 --> 00:38:34,377
have a a better understanding of all the

975
00:38:34,377 --> 00:38:37,418
different places that bio aerosols that could threaten

976
00:38:37,418 --> 00:38:38,375
them start.

977
00:38:39,331 --> 00:38:42,042
Yeah. Absolutely. So in that paper, there's a

978
00:38:42,042 --> 00:38:44,137
a figure that just kinda shows the

979
00:38:44,527 --> 00:38:47,386
the general process of cultivation dry cure and

980
00:38:47,386 --> 00:38:50,562
the manufacturing processing side and and at each

981
00:38:50,562 --> 00:38:53,673
point in the process, there's likely different bio

982
00:38:53,673 --> 00:38:56,292
aerosols being generated from different sources, and that

983
00:38:56,292 --> 00:38:59,070
can include the substrate that you're working with,

984
00:38:59,228 --> 00:39:01,889
like Coco Core or even raw wall could

985
00:39:01,949 --> 00:39:03,786
potentially generate different bio aerosols,

986
00:39:04,905 --> 00:39:07,862
the the your irrigation irrigation system,

987
00:39:08,342 --> 00:39:10,020
the Hvac system,

988
00:39:10,594 --> 00:39:14,022
even moldy walls or, you know, standing water

989
00:39:14,022 --> 00:39:15,058
could potentially

990
00:39:15,616 --> 00:39:18,088
result in some of these bio aerosols if

991
00:39:18,088 --> 00:39:19,797
you're using benefit official microorganisms

992
00:39:20,252 --> 00:39:22,002
or any even beneficial,

993
00:39:22,718 --> 00:39:23,456
like, predatory

994
00:39:23,911 --> 00:39:27,447
mites or other insects you know, insect allergies

995
00:39:27,502 --> 00:39:30,200
are pretty common and people who work. There's

996
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,001
actually been documentation of developing allergies

997
00:39:33,469 --> 00:39:34,688
towards some of these

998
00:39:35,625 --> 00:39:38,041
insects and ara that are used in these

999
00:39:38,099 --> 00:39:39,058
cultivation facilities.

1000
00:39:40,335 --> 00:39:42,730
And then along the entire process, you know,

1001
00:39:43,303 --> 00:39:46,180
when you transition over from cultivation into

1002
00:39:46,869 --> 00:39:50,198
dry care and and really, particularly in manufacturing,

1003
00:39:51,007 --> 00:39:52,757
much of the bio aerosol that's going to

1004
00:39:52,757 --> 00:39:55,779
be generated are likely gonna be from the

1005
00:39:55,779 --> 00:39:59,063
plant matter itself. So especially in those

1006
00:40:00,010 --> 00:40:04,942
handling and trimming and grinding of dried plant

1007
00:40:04,942 --> 00:40:07,187
material. That's when you start seeing more and

1008
00:40:07,187 --> 00:40:07,687
more

1009
00:40:08,463 --> 00:40:11,574
of the bio aerosols being composed of that

1010
00:40:11,574 --> 00:40:12,133
plant matter.

1011
00:40:13,664 --> 00:40:14,164
So

1012
00:40:14,704 --> 00:40:15,505
shaping fire,

1013
00:40:15,905 --> 00:40:18,085
we tend to lean towards

1014
00:40:18,545 --> 00:40:19,045
regenerative,

1015
00:40:19,344 --> 00:40:21,824
growing topics. We're not we're not very

1016
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,199
into salt growing and A plus B here.

1017
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,559
And in even outdoor and sunshine. So we

1018
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:31,293
tend towards that direction here. And what I'm

1019
00:40:31,293 --> 00:40:34,170
hearing from you is that certainly while some

1020
00:40:34,170 --> 00:40:35,628
of the the chemical

1021
00:40:36,007 --> 00:40:39,054
contaminants or chemical issues that that we might

1022
00:40:39,054 --> 00:40:41,755
inhale might go away. Most of everything you're

1023
00:40:41,755 --> 00:40:43,050
talking about is biology

1024
00:40:43,424 --> 00:40:45,354
and sounds like it would

1025
00:40:45,744 --> 00:40:48,538
be just as a just as applicable to

1026
00:40:48,538 --> 00:40:52,610
a regenerative minded grow as it would a

1027
00:40:52,610 --> 00:40:54,846
full on chemical hydro grow.

1028
00:40:56,217 --> 00:40:58,153
Yeah. Sure. I mean, these

1029
00:40:58,850 --> 00:40:59,350
biological

1030
00:40:59,728 --> 00:41:02,042
components are gonna be present in lots of

1031
00:41:02,042 --> 00:41:02,542
different

1032
00:41:03,094 --> 00:41:05,486
you know, ways of growing and cultivating cannabis.

1033
00:41:05,725 --> 00:41:08,515
And and I'm definitely a believer of regenerative,

1034
00:41:09,472 --> 00:41:11,800
farming and agriculture as well as you know,

1035
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:14,199
I love microbes. I I think that they

1036
00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:16,119
definitely can help in the grow beneficial,

1037
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,539
but it's it's about kind of

1038
00:41:19,093 --> 00:41:21,347
understanding what is in the air and monitoring

1039
00:41:21,405 --> 00:41:23,877
that and controlling that so that,

1040
00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:27,465
you know, you're really minimizing exposure because it's

1041
00:41:27,465 --> 00:41:30,679
about exposure and the frequency exposure, the amount

1042
00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:32,780
that you're exposed and your genetic

1043
00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:35,179
predisposition that's gonna ultimately

1044
00:41:36,131 --> 00:41:39,009
result in whether or not you, have a

1045
00:41:39,143 --> 00:41:41,838
negative health outcome because of some of these

1046
00:41:41,838 --> 00:41:43,130
exposures. And many people

1047
00:41:43,438 --> 00:41:45,904
who work in agriculture over time,

1048
00:41:46,779 --> 00:41:49,166
especially you know, in Nebraska where I'm from

1049
00:41:49,166 --> 00:41:51,171
originally and where a lot of this research

1050
00:41:51,171 --> 00:41:52,925
is is being done at my Alma mater,

1051
00:41:53,164 --> 00:41:54,679
University Nebraska Medical Center,

1052
00:41:55,715 --> 00:41:57,490
people who work in these agricultural

1053
00:41:57,867 --> 00:41:58,186
industries,

1054
00:41:59,235 --> 00:42:01,224
tend on to wanna wear masks, you know,

1055
00:42:01,463 --> 00:42:01,940
they

1056
00:42:02,418 --> 00:42:05,574
they don't... You, that that kind of lack

1057
00:42:06,172 --> 00:42:07,927
engineering control that you can put in place

1058
00:42:07,927 --> 00:42:09,842
that that mask over your face to protect

1059
00:42:09,842 --> 00:42:10,342
you

1060
00:42:11,197 --> 00:42:13,989
is not, you know, the kind of culture

1061
00:42:13,989 --> 00:42:15,918
there is, I'm not gonna wear asking and

1062
00:42:15,918 --> 00:42:18,072
that's Mh. That's fine. Except for you're being

1063
00:42:18,072 --> 00:42:19,667
exposed to some of these deaths. You're being

1064
00:42:19,667 --> 00:42:21,502
exposed to some of these other elements that

1065
00:42:21,502 --> 00:42:23,256
could be in the air. And I think

1066
00:42:23,256 --> 00:42:25,545
that that can translate over into cannabis as

1067
00:42:25,664 --> 00:42:27,576
calls, you may be exposed,

1068
00:42:28,452 --> 00:42:29,668
but you don't know

1069
00:42:30,283 --> 00:42:31,796
you know, what's really in the air. And

1070
00:42:31,796 --> 00:42:34,048
so I think doing some basic monitoring

1071
00:42:34,998 --> 00:42:36,057
can be really helpful

1072
00:42:36,594 --> 00:42:38,988
so that you can kinda gauge. Well, do

1073
00:42:39,148 --> 00:42:40,664
I really have anything to worry about or,

1074
00:42:40,903 --> 00:42:43,414
our our levels pretty you know, relatively

1075
00:42:43,795 --> 00:42:46,195
low from the few kind of standards that

1076
00:42:46,195 --> 00:42:46,994
are out there,

1077
00:42:47,875 --> 00:42:49,554
or is it more in line with, like,

1078
00:42:51,409 --> 00:42:55,404
post hurricane building that's had flood damage, and

1079
00:42:55,564 --> 00:42:58,440
I'm, like, I've got mold levels like, in

1080
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,811
line with some of these remediate sites. So

1081
00:43:01,811 --> 00:43:03,889
kind of trying to gauge that for yourself

1082
00:43:03,889 --> 00:43:06,206
really requires you to to take a look

1083
00:43:06,206 --> 00:43:07,405
at what's floating around.

1084
00:43:08,056 --> 00:43:10,198
I know this is kind of AAA sidebar,

1085
00:43:10,436 --> 00:43:12,974
but, this whole idea of wearing masks while

1086
00:43:12,974 --> 00:43:14,744
doing agriculture is still

1087
00:43:15,451 --> 00:43:17,701
new to me. Right. But it was really

1088
00:43:17,837 --> 00:43:19,689
run home for me about

1089
00:43:20,144 --> 00:43:21,337
it's been about a month ago now.

1090
00:43:22,467 --> 00:43:25,994
I was down in Ox doing some bio

1091
00:43:26,530 --> 00:43:28,123
remediation consulting for

1092
00:43:28,522 --> 00:43:30,911
soil biologist, Leigh Morrison who's been on the

1093
00:43:30,911 --> 00:43:32,998
show a couple times. And I was down

1094
00:43:32,998 --> 00:43:35,229
there, were we were working with this fancy

1095
00:43:35,229 --> 00:43:35,968
new compost

1096
00:43:36,504 --> 00:43:36,902
recipe.

1097
00:43:37,540 --> 00:43:37,859
And,

1098
00:43:38,496 --> 00:43:40,568
while I was staying at his house, my

1099
00:43:40,568 --> 00:43:43,856
asthma just was like, terrible. And and and

1100
00:43:43,856 --> 00:43:45,454
and because I was being a smart Alec,

1101
00:43:45,614 --> 00:43:47,553
I I was blaming the local

1102
00:43:48,331 --> 00:43:50,340
flower that I picked up at dis in

1103
00:43:50,499 --> 00:43:52,646
Ox, and he's like, man, you're you're missing

1104
00:43:52,646 --> 00:43:55,509
the bigger point. We're in the heart of

1105
00:43:55,509 --> 00:43:56,384
old school,

1106
00:43:57,497 --> 00:43:57,997
petroleum

1107
00:43:58,451 --> 00:43:59,087
agriculture here.

1108
00:43:59,659 --> 00:44:00,770
And I'm like, oh, I didn't think about

1109
00:44:00,770 --> 00:44:02,120
it. And and we jumped in the cart,

1110
00:44:02,279 --> 00:44:03,788
and we drove around, and he just showed

1111
00:44:03,788 --> 00:44:06,329
me, you know, you know, thousands and thousands

1112
00:44:06,329 --> 00:44:08,576
of acres that were all

1113
00:44:09,921 --> 00:44:10,980
overt till

1114
00:44:11,357 --> 00:44:15,424
and and nutrition lists and micro bliss and

1115
00:44:15,424 --> 00:44:17,657
and was all dusty and blowing in the

1116
00:44:17,657 --> 00:44:17,976
wind.

1117
00:44:18,629 --> 00:44:20,385
And he's, like, this is the air that

1118
00:44:20,385 --> 00:44:22,062
you're breathing at my house, dude, and I'm

1119
00:44:22,062 --> 00:44:24,696
like, oh my gosh. Like, you know, we're

1120
00:44:24,696 --> 00:44:26,532
we're only, like, 3 4 blocks from these

1121
00:44:26,532 --> 00:44:28,944
fields, of course. And and he described all

1122
00:44:28,944 --> 00:44:30,964
the weird things that happens in his yard

1123
00:44:31,184 --> 00:44:33,184
because of all the things that they spray

1124
00:44:33,184 --> 00:44:34,385
just a couple blocks away.

1125
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:37,028
And I started thinking to myself well when

1126
00:44:37,028 --> 00:44:39,097
when I visit him, I should probably wear

1127
00:44:39,097 --> 00:44:41,484
a mask. This really isn't good for for

1128
00:44:41,484 --> 00:44:42,041
my asthma,

1129
00:44:42,534 --> 00:44:44,847
But then I... Then we go for AAA

1130
00:44:44,847 --> 00:44:47,022
drive, and I see all these workers

1131
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:50,191
who are there working in the fields right

1132
00:44:50,191 --> 00:44:52,185
there with all this dust blowing around and

1133
00:44:52,185 --> 00:44:54,211
it's it's filled with traditional

1134
00:44:54,585 --> 00:44:57,844
petroleum, you know, pesticides and chemicals, and it

1135
00:44:57,844 --> 00:44:58,344
really

1136
00:44:58,718 --> 00:45:01,523
drove the idea home of why

1137
00:45:01,913 --> 00:45:04,558
people in agriculture should be wearing masks. It's

1138
00:45:04,694 --> 00:45:06,284
man. It's... It makes me think of like,

1139
00:45:06,363 --> 00:45:07,976
all, like, the other traditional

1140
00:45:08,349 --> 00:45:10,257
industries where you trade your body for work

1141
00:45:10,257 --> 00:45:12,587
like, like, coal mining. Right? Yeah.

1142
00:45:13,386 --> 00:45:15,942
Yeah. And, yeah. And that that was, you

1143
00:45:15,942 --> 00:45:17,141
know, in coal mining,

1144
00:45:18,432 --> 00:45:20,338
in black lung and things like that, that's

1145
00:45:20,338 --> 00:45:23,039
not necessarily exposure to bio aerosols, but these

1146
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:23,936
tiny particles

1147
00:45:24,389 --> 00:45:25,286
that basically,

1148
00:45:27,979 --> 00:45:31,485
can can can physically cause damage here long.

1149
00:45:31,724 --> 00:45:34,434
And that mounts an immune response, which then

1150
00:45:34,434 --> 00:45:35,412
can restructure

1151
00:45:35,804 --> 00:45:36,361
your lung,

1152
00:45:37,238 --> 00:45:39,787
physiology, and that can lead to disease. So

1153
00:45:39,787 --> 00:45:42,177
it's a different pathway, but you get some

1154
00:45:42,177 --> 00:45:42,677
similar

1155
00:45:43,068 --> 00:45:44,521
and results, you know, Copd,

1156
00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:45,688
hyper...

1157
00:45:46,402 --> 00:45:49,894
What's the last 1. Hyper sensitive bonus? Yes.

1158
00:45:50,132 --> 00:45:52,375
Yes. So there's there's a lot of different...

1159
00:45:53,967 --> 00:45:56,116
There's a lot of different... Your lungs can

1160
00:45:56,116 --> 00:45:57,548
be hurt in lots of different ways. It

1161
00:45:57,548 --> 00:45:59,300
doesn't need to be biological. It can be

1162
00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:00,508
chemical. It can be physical full.

1163
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:02,200
But,

1164
00:46:02,892 --> 00:46:05,435
yeah. The... Anytime there's a lot of particulate

1165
00:46:05,435 --> 00:46:06,150
in the air,

1166
00:46:07,914 --> 00:46:10,871
It's it's generally a good idea to wear,

1167
00:46:11,590 --> 00:46:13,188
like, an 90 n95 respirator,

1168
00:46:14,307 --> 00:46:16,476
just to protect yourself from just the sheer

1169
00:46:16,476 --> 00:46:18,460
amount that you're breathing in. Like, your lungs

1170
00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:18,699
can,

1171
00:46:19,731 --> 00:46:20,048
you know,

1172
00:46:20,763 --> 00:46:23,144
kind of clean that out for the most

1173
00:46:23,144 --> 00:46:25,105
part, but if they're really, really fine part

1174
00:46:25,224 --> 00:46:27,369
pulse. And this is really the

1175
00:46:28,005 --> 00:46:29,912
the important part when it comes to a

1176
00:46:29,912 --> 00:46:30,786
health perspective,

1177
00:46:31,343 --> 00:46:34,378
really fine particulate matter that's below about out

1178
00:46:34,378 --> 00:46:35,671
2.5 microns

1179
00:46:36,442 --> 00:46:38,902
can go deep down into the lungs and

1180
00:46:38,902 --> 00:46:42,172
even be directly absorbed into the bloodstream And

1181
00:46:42,172 --> 00:46:45,028
so, yes, those can cause different pulmonary diseases

1182
00:46:45,028 --> 00:46:48,226
over time, but it's also linked to other

1183
00:46:48,837 --> 00:46:49,337
systemic

1184
00:46:49,710 --> 00:46:50,210
disease

1185
00:46:50,998 --> 00:46:52,912
that a lot of times doesn't get as

1186
00:46:52,912 --> 00:46:54,587
much attention. But,

1187
00:46:55,145 --> 00:46:58,335
for example, there are several publications out showing

1188
00:46:58,335 --> 00:47:01,541
that exposure, especially to these fine particulate matter,

1189
00:47:02,659 --> 00:47:03,638
species can

1190
00:47:04,335 --> 00:47:07,288
lead to neuro generated diseases. And that is

1191
00:47:07,288 --> 00:47:10,817
less well understood. But it's it's definitely a

1192
00:47:10,817 --> 00:47:12,415
whole body thing, You know, it's not just

1193
00:47:12,415 --> 00:47:14,013
your lungs. If they're really small, they can

1194
00:47:14,013 --> 00:47:15,611
get into your blood bloodstream, travel to different

1195
00:47:15,611 --> 00:47:18,356
parts of your body, and if it's repeated

1196
00:47:18,411 --> 00:47:20,713
exposure over a long period of time can

1197
00:47:20,713 --> 00:47:23,675
lead to a diverse set of path technologies.

1198
00:47:24,619 --> 00:47:26,450
So the part of the paper that really

1199
00:47:26,450 --> 00:47:29,498
caught my attention was the different sizes

1200
00:47:30,193 --> 00:47:33,555
of these particulate. It's, the the the top

1201
00:47:33,555 --> 00:47:35,315
being, say, 10 micron,

1202
00:47:35,715 --> 00:47:38,675
and then going down to the 2.5 micron

1203
00:47:38,675 --> 00:47:42,125
that you mentioned, the smaller they get the

1204
00:47:42,125 --> 00:47:45,536
more dangerous they are. And so many of

1205
00:47:45,536 --> 00:47:47,440
us are kind of like, you know, a,

1206
00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:49,583
you gotta cut, just throw some mud on

1207
00:47:49,583 --> 00:47:51,584
it and let's go, you know, kind of,

1208
00:47:51,664 --> 00:47:54,151
like, like, like, let's not necessarily

1209
00:47:54,526 --> 00:47:56,354
respect the damage that has been done to

1210
00:47:56,354 --> 00:47:59,159
us. It becomes way more sneaky

1211
00:47:59,708 --> 00:48:02,261
when we're talking about inhaling things that are

1212
00:48:02,261 --> 00:48:03,559
sub 10 micron

1213
00:48:04,096 --> 00:48:06,648
because we don't know what's happening, and it's

1214
00:48:06,648 --> 00:48:08,722
very likely that since we don't know that

1215
00:48:08,722 --> 00:48:11,135
it's happening at work. We may blame it

1216
00:48:11,135 --> 00:48:14,175
on, you know, our house or our beds

1217
00:48:14,175 --> 00:48:16,035
sheets or our spouses

1218
00:48:16,414 --> 00:48:16,914
fragrance

1219
00:48:17,215 --> 00:48:19,629
or all of these things. When it's actually

1220
00:48:19,629 --> 00:48:21,467
happening at work. It's it's kind of like

1221
00:48:21,467 --> 00:48:22,665
an invisible threat.

1222
00:48:24,583 --> 00:48:26,581
Yeah. So the size of these particles is

1223
00:48:26,581 --> 00:48:27,060
really

1224
00:48:27,794 --> 00:48:29,546
it... It's impactful from a,

1225
00:48:30,342 --> 00:48:32,652
a health perspective, but also from just an

1226
00:48:32,652 --> 00:48:35,598
aerosol science perspective. So the smaller the particles

1227
00:48:35,598 --> 00:48:37,601
are, the long they can stay floating around

1228
00:48:37,601 --> 00:48:39,986
in the air as well. So not only

1229
00:48:39,986 --> 00:48:41,338
do you... Could you break them in and

1230
00:48:41,338 --> 00:48:43,324
they go deeper into your lumps, but they're

1231
00:48:43,324 --> 00:48:43,824
likely

1232
00:48:44,358 --> 00:48:47,324
going to be more stained exposure hazards because

1233
00:48:47,324 --> 00:48:49,105
they're gonna be floating around in the air

1234
00:48:49,164 --> 00:48:51,484
for longer periods of time before gravity pulls

1235
00:48:51,484 --> 00:48:52,684
them down and they deposit.

1236
00:48:53,737 --> 00:48:55,971
Onto the ground or onto the walls or

1237
00:48:55,971 --> 00:48:57,805
whatever these particles end up

1238
00:49:00,277 --> 00:49:02,931
it's called deposition in Aerosol science. So

1239
00:49:03,244 --> 00:49:05,239
they end up falling essentially.

1240
00:49:06,117 --> 00:49:07,335
And the bigger particles,

1241
00:49:08,032 --> 00:49:10,585
usually, you know, over 10 microns, you know,

1242
00:49:11,079 --> 00:49:12,677
they will go up in the air and

1243
00:49:12,677 --> 00:49:15,234
fall right back down. But smaller, you know,

1244
00:49:15,394 --> 00:49:17,711
around 10 microns and smaller, they tend to

1245
00:49:17,711 --> 00:49:19,724
stay in the air for a minute. Or

1246
00:49:19,724 --> 00:49:21,961
even hours depending on how small they are.

1247
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,237
So not only from, health perspective, but also

1248
00:49:25,237 --> 00:49:27,235
from, a building science perspective,

1249
00:49:27,728 --> 00:49:29,238
The size of the particulate,

1250
00:49:29,636 --> 00:49:31,169
including their composition

1251
00:49:31,544 --> 00:49:34,327
are really important when you're trying to understand

1252
00:49:34,327 --> 00:49:35,304
the impacts

1253
00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:38,818
that these different particles can have on workers

1254
00:49:38,955 --> 00:49:41,182
or on other folks in indoor environments in

1255
00:49:41,182 --> 00:49:41,580
general.

1256
00:49:42,137 --> 00:49:43,887
And what's interesting is that, you know,

1257
00:49:44,777 --> 00:49:47,083
the Epa, the environmental protection agency,

1258
00:49:47,799 --> 00:49:51,139
Osha and and indoor air quality standards are

1259
00:49:51,139 --> 00:49:53,126
all kind of, they look at these particles

1260
00:49:53,126 --> 00:49:54,001
slightly different.

1261
00:49:55,135 --> 00:49:55,875
And so

1262
00:49:56,335 --> 00:49:57,775
even though we're all trying to look at

1263
00:49:57,775 --> 00:50:00,014
these particles and and assess how they could

1264
00:50:00,014 --> 00:50:00,574
be harmful,

1265
00:50:00,974 --> 00:50:03,647
there's different bin of size and which categories

1266
00:50:03,784 --> 00:50:04,820
may be most harmful,

1267
00:50:05,618 --> 00:50:07,552
depending on if you're looking at an environmental

1268
00:50:07,849 --> 00:50:10,695
health perspective, an occupational health perspective or just

1269
00:50:10,814 --> 00:50:12,188
an indoor air quality

1270
00:50:12,562 --> 00:50:14,867
perspective. It's really interesting to have these 3

1271
00:50:14,867 --> 00:50:17,989
kind of different, but overlapping fields trying to

1272
00:50:18,853 --> 00:50:22,345
assess these bio aerosols. It's really troubling as

1273
00:50:22,345 --> 00:50:25,519
a regenerative farmer who loves microbes to look

1274
00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:27,605
at the microbes as any kind of an

1275
00:50:27,605 --> 00:50:29,684
enemy. Right? I mean, like, we... Wear t

1276
00:50:29,684 --> 00:50:32,164
shirts. You know, I love microbes and microbe

1277
00:50:32,164 --> 00:50:34,085
farmer and all this. Right? We love the

1278
00:50:34,085 --> 00:50:34,404
microbes,

1279
00:50:34,899 --> 00:50:37,531
and we're usually spending our time, like inc

1280
00:50:37,531 --> 00:50:40,003
bait them to create more of them to

1281
00:50:40,003 --> 00:50:42,237
pour into the substrate to feed the soil,

1282
00:50:42,396 --> 00:50:43,672
so the soil can feed the plant.

1283
00:50:44,884 --> 00:50:47,378
And, yet, your paper talks about these pathogenic

1284
00:50:47,675 --> 00:50:48,175
microbes,

1285
00:50:49,191 --> 00:50:51,902
and and they are a human threat in

1286
00:50:51,902 --> 00:50:54,947
our in our environments. It's it is I

1287
00:50:54,947 --> 00:50:57,327
mean, it's obvious duh, that it's true, But

1288
00:50:57,327 --> 00:50:59,255
it's also troubling that

1289
00:50:59,945 --> 00:51:02,825
that this type of biology that we are

1290
00:51:03,853 --> 00:51:06,986
in such support of also can be threat

1291
00:51:07,204 --> 00:51:10,078
if they are of a pathogenic variety to

1292
00:51:10,078 --> 00:51:10,557
a human.

1293
00:51:12,325 --> 00:51:14,470
Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I'm a big

1294
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:17,092
fan of microbes myself. I'm a microbiology. I

1295
00:51:17,092 --> 00:51:18,864
love fermented foods. I

1296
00:51:19,651 --> 00:51:21,422
I definitely think that microbes,

1297
00:51:22,432 --> 00:51:24,181
you know, they created the planet that we're

1298
00:51:24,181 --> 00:51:26,898
on today, and I appreciate that and and

1299
00:51:26,898 --> 00:51:28,886
love them for that, but they can also

1300
00:51:28,886 --> 00:51:31,510
a very small subset of them can directly

1301
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:34,824
cause disease. And some of some microbes don't

1302
00:51:34,945 --> 00:51:36,864
really have to be pathogens to be harmful.

1303
00:51:36,945 --> 00:51:38,945
Like I said, some of their just their

1304
00:51:38,945 --> 00:51:39,445
basic

1305
00:51:39,824 --> 00:51:40,885
components their meta

1306
00:51:41,425 --> 00:51:42,199
can actually

1307
00:51:42,954 --> 00:51:46,317
trigger certain immune responses even though those microorganisms

1308
00:51:46,532 --> 00:51:49,632
wouldn't necessarily infect you just the amount and

1309
00:51:49,632 --> 00:51:51,675
the types of meta that they

1310
00:51:52,034 --> 00:51:52,933
present could

1311
00:51:53,311 --> 00:51:54,429
potentially be harmful.

1312
00:51:55,147 --> 00:51:58,101
So test your research also focuses in on

1313
00:51:58,740 --> 00:52:00,677
microbial meta like endo.

1314
00:52:01,389 --> 00:52:04,900
That just pound our immune system. And the

1315
00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:05,878
the the study,

1316
00:52:06,495 --> 00:52:10,020
research suggests that this is very common when

1317
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:12,811
we are grinding flower, especially for pre rolls.

1318
00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:15,364
And anybody who's ever been in that environment

1319
00:52:15,364 --> 00:52:18,097
knows that, you know, when when when the

1320
00:52:18,808 --> 00:52:21,461
Material is getting ground, it kinda just like

1321
00:52:21,518 --> 00:52:23,591
perm the whole room. And if the doors

1322
00:52:23,591 --> 00:52:25,824
are open, it can go outside because because

1323
00:52:25,824 --> 00:52:28,311
unfortunately, as as much as they're supposed to

1324
00:52:28,311 --> 00:52:30,067
have good Hvac in these places,

1325
00:52:30,626 --> 00:52:33,338
many of them don't, especially in states that

1326
00:52:33,338 --> 00:52:34,317
are just becoming,

1327
00:52:35,505 --> 00:52:37,038
you know, cannibal normalizing.

1328
00:52:37,412 --> 00:52:39,898
So so tell us a little bit about

1329
00:52:40,431 --> 00:52:43,155
this endo antioxidant that is carried by

1330
00:52:43,703 --> 00:52:45,534
the flower that gets

1331
00:52:46,011 --> 00:52:47,364
ground down in into pre rolls.

1332
00:52:49,035 --> 00:52:50,809
So endo antioxidants actually

1333
00:52:51,582 --> 00:52:52,639
bound on

1334
00:52:53,348 --> 00:52:55,980
gram negative bacteria. So if you remember, your

1335
00:52:55,980 --> 00:52:57,735
your basic micro 01:01,

1336
00:52:58,452 --> 00:53:01,642
there's 2 different basically groups of bacteria and

1337
00:53:01,642 --> 00:53:02,461
they're sort of

1338
00:53:03,093 --> 00:53:06,047
organized by their cell walls and their cell

1339
00:53:06,047 --> 00:53:08,463
membrane and how that's organized. And

1340
00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:12,550
gram negative bacteria have something called endo

1341
00:53:12,849 --> 00:53:14,470
or Lps lip poly.

1342
00:53:15,490 --> 00:53:16,390
And so

1343
00:53:16,769 --> 00:53:18,050
flour that would have,

1344
00:53:18,864 --> 00:53:22,081
you know, high levels of bacteria on them

1345
00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:24,877
could potentially have a lot of endo

1346
00:53:25,496 --> 00:53:25,975
as well.

1347
00:53:26,627 --> 00:53:30,199
And there's really no peer reviewed research studying

1348
00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:32,365
that. I mean, we know that gram negative

1349
00:53:32,818 --> 00:53:35,932
bacteria can definitely be on cannabis flower, so

1350
00:53:35,932 --> 00:53:38,561
it's likely that Lps or endo talks is

1351
00:53:38,561 --> 00:53:39,837
on cannabis flower,

1352
00:53:40,793 --> 00:53:42,706
and there are some white papers out there.

1353
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:45,743
That have shown and identified endo talks on

1354
00:53:45,743 --> 00:53:48,685
cannabis flower that's commercial within the state, medicinal

1355
00:53:48,685 --> 00:53:50,355
genomics, I think, put out that white paper

1356
00:53:50,355 --> 00:53:51,469
of last year.

1357
00:53:53,153 --> 00:53:55,324
Showing that you can identify endo

1358
00:53:56,255 --> 00:53:59,119
on cannabis flour that is commercially available to

1359
00:53:59,119 --> 00:53:59,438
people.

1360
00:54:00,327 --> 00:54:00,724
And,

1361
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,059
even in that report that came out about

1362
00:54:04,059 --> 00:54:04,694
that fatal,

1363
00:54:05,726 --> 00:54:08,585
occupational asthma attack in Massachusetts of a cannabis

1364
00:54:08,585 --> 00:54:08,903
worker,

1365
00:54:10,505 --> 00:54:11,005
the

1366
00:54:11,378 --> 00:54:13,440
Ocean investigators went in, and they did some

1367
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,186
air sampling, and they did find,

1368
00:54:16,059 --> 00:54:17,352
levels were elevated

1369
00:54:18,059 --> 00:54:18,559
during

1370
00:54:19,814 --> 00:54:20,713
you know, grinding

1371
00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:23,404
operations in that room. Now, that company had

1372
00:54:23,404 --> 00:54:24,681
implemented hepa filtration.

1373
00:54:25,729 --> 00:54:27,396
After the the,

1374
00:54:27,952 --> 00:54:31,048
worker suffered that fatal occupational asthma attack.

1375
00:54:31,921 --> 00:54:33,687
And so it's not clear what the levels

1376
00:54:33,687 --> 00:54:35,760
would have been, that she would have been

1377
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,218
exposed to. But

1378
00:54:38,153 --> 00:54:40,706
you know, that could potentially... And it doesn't

1379
00:54:40,706 --> 00:54:43,912
have... There's really no established osha standards for

1380
00:54:43,912 --> 00:54:45,050
the amount of endo

1381
00:54:45,748 --> 00:54:45,987
that,

1382
00:54:46,626 --> 00:54:48,861
you know, someone can be exposed to, quote,

1383
00:54:49,021 --> 00:54:51,575
unquote, safely over an 8 hour weighted period.

1384
00:54:52,625 --> 00:54:54,532
There's no Osha standard for that. We have

1385
00:54:54,532 --> 00:54:56,122
to go off of other countries,

1386
00:54:56,758 --> 00:54:59,063
sort of limits to kind of gauge what

1387
00:54:59,063 --> 00:55:00,732
is a potentially harmful level.

1388
00:55:01,304 --> 00:55:03,371
But that level is not gonna be the

1389
00:55:03,371 --> 00:55:06,815
same for every individual. So it's put... It

1390
00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:08,008
potentially harmful

1391
00:55:08,637 --> 00:55:10,091
events could happen at

1392
00:55:10,705 --> 00:55:13,091
at very low endo levels for folks who

1393
00:55:13,091 --> 00:55:16,210
may be particularly sensitive to that. And so

1394
00:55:16,847 --> 00:55:18,838
in the handful of studies that look at

1395
00:55:18,838 --> 00:55:19,338
endo

1396
00:55:19,713 --> 00:55:21,784
in different cannabis and hemp environments,

1397
00:55:22,978 --> 00:55:26,181
the levels in cannabis environments and granted, this

1398
00:55:26,181 --> 00:55:28,972
is like, you know, maybe 3 to 5

1399
00:55:28,972 --> 00:55:30,805
papers that have come out on this. So

1400
00:55:30,805 --> 00:55:32,161
it's very small in scope.

1401
00:55:33,528 --> 00:55:34,028
They're

1402
00:55:34,403 --> 00:55:37,505
not super high in cannabis operations, but they

1403
00:55:37,505 --> 00:55:39,389
were very high in hemp

1404
00:55:40,306 --> 00:55:43,277
operations. And that could be just the difference

1405
00:55:43,415 --> 00:55:45,886
between growing indoor versus outdoor. It could be

1406
00:55:45,886 --> 00:55:47,400
how these operations are running.

1407
00:55:48,371 --> 00:55:49,643
It could've have just been the luck of

1408
00:55:49,643 --> 00:55:51,234
the draw, you know, roll the dice and

1409
00:55:51,234 --> 00:55:52,348
some will be high and some will be

1410
00:55:52,348 --> 00:55:54,177
low. Again, the sample size is very low.

1411
00:55:54,909 --> 00:55:57,456
So that is definitely warrant... It warrants a

1412
00:55:57,456 --> 00:55:58,195
lot more

1413
00:55:58,570 --> 00:56:01,198
investigation on, what kind of endo antioxidant levels

1414
00:56:01,198 --> 00:56:02,551
are actually in the air.

1415
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,300
During... Especially during processing of these dry flower

1416
00:56:06,300 --> 00:56:06,697
products.

1417
00:56:07,492 --> 00:56:09,977
I wanna end this set talking about bio

1418
00:56:10,192 --> 00:56:11,010
aerosol synergies.

1419
00:56:11,478 --> 00:56:13,227
Because you make this interesting point during the...

1420
00:56:13,386 --> 00:56:15,772
On the during the paper of, that there

1421
00:56:15,772 --> 00:56:18,635
are these, you know, these various fungal bacteria

1422
00:56:18,635 --> 00:56:21,155
and viral bare bio bio aerosols and they

1423
00:56:21,274 --> 00:56:24,051
all kind of impact humans in different ways.

1424
00:56:24,527 --> 00:56:27,066
But, oh, yeah, when they get together and

1425
00:56:27,066 --> 00:56:30,104
party in your immune system, like, that it

1426
00:56:30,104 --> 00:56:32,496
can cause something entirely different. So will you

1427
00:56:32,496 --> 00:56:34,808
speak briefly to these these synergies and how

1428
00:56:34,808 --> 00:56:37,494
when when these different aerosols work together, they

1429
00:56:37,614 --> 00:56:38,731
they can be made all the worse.

1430
00:56:40,168 --> 00:56:43,440
Yeah. So anyone who studies biology knows, it's

1431
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,166
usually not, like, a plus or a to

1432
00:56:46,166 --> 00:56:48,474
b to c, you know, it's it's very

1433
00:56:48,474 --> 00:56:50,327
complex complex. There's usually these

1434
00:56:50,703 --> 00:56:51,203
these

1435
00:56:53,583 --> 00:56:54,481
very interesting

1436
00:56:54,936 --> 00:56:58,299
relationships and feed forward and feedback pathways and

1437
00:56:58,595 --> 00:56:59,890
interactions between different

1438
00:57:00,996 --> 00:57:02,530
you know, biological processes

1439
00:57:02,985 --> 00:57:03,804
that can

1440
00:57:04,497 --> 00:57:04,997
create

1441
00:57:05,531 --> 00:57:07,934
end results that you don't expect based on

1442
00:57:07,934 --> 00:57:09,295
what went into it. And so,

1443
00:57:09,855 --> 00:57:12,414
for example, some of these bio aerosols

1444
00:57:12,894 --> 00:57:15,387
can definitely s with each other. You know,

1445
00:57:15,547 --> 00:57:16,047
endo,

1446
00:57:16,581 --> 00:57:19,228
can s with other toxins and exacerbate

1447
00:57:19,683 --> 00:57:21,512
different negative health outcomes and mice.

1448
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:25,983
You can see sent enhanced sen centralization. So

1449
00:57:25,983 --> 00:57:26,302
that's that,

1450
00:57:27,813 --> 00:57:29,268
that's that kind of classic

1451
00:57:30,456 --> 00:57:31,673
Ig mediated,

1452
00:57:32,129 --> 00:57:33,882
which is that all, that's that branch of

1453
00:57:33,882 --> 00:57:36,112
the immune system that really focuses on those

1454
00:57:36,112 --> 00:57:36,989
protein all.

1455
00:57:37,546 --> 00:57:39,003
If you're allergic to

1456
00:57:39,394 --> 00:57:42,994
other plants that have similar proteins to cannabis

1457
00:57:42,994 --> 00:57:44,515
that can actually sen you,

1458
00:57:45,715 --> 00:57:47,574
and and you can have a greater likelihood

1459
00:57:47,635 --> 00:57:50,205
of becoming allergic to cannabis. So a lot

1460
00:57:50,205 --> 00:57:51,561
of the growers that I talk to,

1461
00:57:52,838 --> 00:57:55,072
who are sen because I do know several

1462
00:57:55,072 --> 00:57:55,811
who are

1463
00:57:56,442 --> 00:57:58,036
we'll say that when there's a lot of

1464
00:57:58,036 --> 00:57:59,708
poll outside, they actually,

1465
00:58:00,345 --> 00:58:02,894
notice that their their allergies inside the grow

1466
00:58:02,894 --> 00:58:04,987
or worse. And It's not clear

1467
00:58:05,458 --> 00:58:06,974
why that is or what's going on there,

1468
00:58:07,134 --> 00:58:09,128
but it's likely that there's some cross sen

1469
00:58:09,128 --> 00:58:11,042
standardization that's going on there. And so these

1470
00:58:11,042 --> 00:58:12,499
bio aerosols have complex

1471
00:58:13,195 --> 00:58:15,051
relationships, and that's why it's so important to

1472
00:58:15,204 --> 00:58:16,559
not only just be like, okay, These are

1473
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:17,994
the number of particles in the air and

1474
00:58:17,994 --> 00:58:20,386
the sizes that they are, but taking a

1475
00:58:20,386 --> 00:58:21,684
deeper dive into,

1476
00:58:22,140 --> 00:58:25,208
you know, what organisms are there. What meta

1477
00:58:25,426 --> 00:58:27,740
are there, what all are there, What toxins

1478
00:58:27,740 --> 00:58:31,251
are there. And and really understanding how the

1479
00:58:31,251 --> 00:58:31,751
diverse,

1480
00:58:33,579 --> 00:58:34,238
kind of,

1481
00:58:34,615 --> 00:58:37,405
I would say bio aerosol Home because we

1482
00:58:37,405 --> 00:58:39,000
love to add home to everything science.

1483
00:58:40,768 --> 00:58:41,246
Could be,

1484
00:58:41,882 --> 00:58:45,168
leading to some of these potential effects. Now

1485
00:58:45,304 --> 00:58:46,123
drawing that

1486
00:58:47,612 --> 00:58:48,764
that causal

1487
00:58:49,142 --> 00:58:50,658
relationship between exposure to,

1488
00:58:51,376 --> 00:58:54,170
particular group of different bio aerosols and disease

1489
00:58:54,170 --> 00:58:56,346
is very challenging. Again, because

1490
00:58:56,820 --> 00:58:57,940
there could be a lot of different things

1491
00:58:57,940 --> 00:58:59,780
in the air, the amount that's there and

1492
00:58:59,780 --> 00:59:01,460
the amount that you're exposed plus your own

1493
00:59:01,460 --> 00:59:01,960
genetic

1494
00:59:02,500 --> 00:59:04,260
predisposition is gonna play a big role in

1495
00:59:04,260 --> 00:59:07,058
that. But it's known that these aerosols and

1496
00:59:07,058 --> 00:59:09,203
just the different components of these bio aerosols

1497
00:59:09,203 --> 00:59:11,927
can interact with each other and really exacerbate

1498
00:59:11,984 --> 00:59:14,550
negative health outcomes. That's really great with net

1499
00:59:14,550 --> 00:59:16,309
test. Oh, well, this isn't really really great.

1500
00:59:16,550 --> 00:59:18,710
That's really awful, but your explanation is really

1501
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:20,309
great. So so

1502
00:59:20,884 --> 00:59:22,562
Let's go ahead and take a short break

1503
00:59:22,562 --> 00:59:24,400
and be right back with the third set.

1504
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,398
You are listening to shaping fire and my

1505
00:59:26,398 --> 00:59:27,617
guest today is micro

1506
00:59:28,076 --> 00:59:28,555
test item them.

1507
00:59:32,072 --> 00:59:34,220
This message is for folks who grow cannabis.

1508
00:59:34,459 --> 00:59:36,845
I'm talking to home growers, patients and commercial

1509
00:59:36,845 --> 00:59:39,890
growers too I'm probably talking to you. When

1510
00:59:39,890 --> 00:59:41,885
you plan out your next growing cycle, be

1511
00:59:41,885 --> 00:59:45,079
sure to check out humboldt csi seeds at

1512
00:59:45,079 --> 00:59:46,835
humboldt csi dot com.

1513
00:59:47,489 --> 00:59:49,564
Caleb Spec and his family have lived in

1514
00:59:49,723 --> 00:59:52,038
Humboldt county for over a hundred years. For

1515
00:59:52,038 --> 00:59:54,512
the last 40 years, 3 generations of his

1516
00:59:54,512 --> 00:59:55,571
family have cultivated

1517
00:59:55,964 --> 00:59:58,859
extraordinary sense em mia cannabis in Humble, Mend

1518
00:59:59,077 --> 01:00:00,115
and Trinity counties.

1519
01:00:01,073 --> 01:00:03,388
Because of his lineage and the hard earned

1520
01:00:03,388 --> 01:00:06,119
experience that comes from growing up smoking and

1521
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:08,596
sift large populations of cannabis plants in Northern

1522
01:00:08,676 --> 01:00:09,176
California,

1523
01:00:09,635 --> 01:00:11,953
the seeds you'll cop from Csi will be

1524
01:00:11,953 --> 01:00:15,643
winning genetics based on longtime heavy hit and

1525
01:00:15,643 --> 01:00:17,798
updated and shifted to bring out new and

1526
01:00:17,798 --> 01:00:19,394
exotic traits and better yields.

1527
01:00:20,032 --> 01:00:22,347
Go ahead and ask around. Caleb also known

1528
01:00:22,347 --> 01:00:25,074
as inspector, and pirates of the Emerald Triangle

1529
01:00:25,074 --> 01:00:27,785
is a breeder breeder. He reaches way back

1530
01:00:27,785 --> 01:00:29,379
and works with significant strains,

1531
01:00:30,097 --> 01:00:32,224
recreating them in new and interesting ways that

1532
01:00:32,344 --> 01:00:34,328
you'll love as a talker and a grower,

1533
01:00:34,645 --> 01:00:36,709
as well as offering you some surprises that

1534
01:00:36,709 --> 01:00:39,193
will delight serious seed traders and cult.

1535
01:00:40,218 --> 01:00:43,170
Humboldt Csi goes as further step and self,

1536
01:00:43,489 --> 01:00:45,563
all these chemo ours, so you know all

1537
01:00:45,563 --> 01:00:46,681
the seeds will be female.

1538
01:00:47,174 --> 01:00:51,103
These are not experimental Gemini seeds. Humbled Csi

1539
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,654
releases some of the best female seeds available

1540
01:00:53,871 --> 01:00:55,706
anywhere, and it will show in your garden.

1541
01:00:56,676 --> 01:00:58,825
Folks grew quite a bit of Csi Humble

1542
01:00:58,825 --> 01:01:00,577
x last year here on Vas on Island,

1543
01:01:00,815 --> 01:01:03,862
and everyone was pleased. The patients had beautiful

1544
01:01:04,094 --> 01:01:06,241
female plans and didn't have to call half

1545
01:01:06,241 --> 01:01:07,434
of their garden as males.

1546
01:01:07,990 --> 01:01:09,899
The folks growing for the fun of getting

1547
01:01:09,899 --> 01:01:13,239
high grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal

1548
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:16,123
and grade hot. Eyes and breeder had 7

1549
01:01:16,123 --> 01:01:18,196
out of 7 females in a pack, which

1550
01:01:18,196 --> 01:01:20,110
gave them a lot of ph choices.

1551
01:01:20,987 --> 01:01:23,401
Take a moment right now and visit humbled

1552
01:01:23,713 --> 01:01:24,587
CSI

1553
01:01:24,587 --> 01:01:26,574
dot com. You'll find an up to date

1554
01:01:26,574 --> 01:01:27,551
menu of both

1555
01:01:27,925 --> 01:01:30,628
and regular lines along with photos and descriptions.

1556
01:01:31,278 --> 01:01:33,525
That's humbled CSI

1557
01:01:33,581 --> 01:01:34,137
dot com.

1558
01:01:37,552 --> 01:01:39,061
After you've caught up on the latest shaping

1559
01:01:39,061 --> 01:01:41,220
flare episodes do sometimes wish there was more

1560
01:01:41,220 --> 01:01:43,681
cannabis education available to learn. Well, we got

1561
01:01:43,681 --> 01:01:46,222
you. Shaping fire has a fabulous Youtube channel

1562
01:01:46,222 --> 01:01:48,127
with content not found on the podcast.

1563
01:01:48,619 --> 01:01:50,932
When I attend conventions to speak or moderate

1564
01:01:50,932 --> 01:01:52,606
panels, I always record them and bring the

1565
01:01:52,606 --> 01:01:54,919
content home for you to watch. The Shin

1566
01:01:55,477 --> 01:01:58,204
Youtube channel has world class speakers, including Zoey

1567
01:01:58,284 --> 01:02:00,302
Sig lecture, understanding your endo

1568
01:02:00,681 --> 01:02:01,001
system.

1569
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,117
Kevin Joe of Wonderland nursery talking about breeding

1570
01:02:04,117 --> 01:02:07,186
cannabis for the best European profile. French Can

1571
01:02:07,242 --> 01:02:08,617
lost art of the Hash

1572
01:02:08,992 --> 01:02:12,095
presentation. Nicolas Mah on regenerative and poly culture

1573
01:02:12,095 --> 01:02:12,731
cannabis growing.

1574
01:02:13,304 --> 01:02:15,461
Doctor Sun Ag in the history of cannabis

1575
01:02:15,461 --> 01:02:18,018
medicine around the world. Eric V and Josh

1576
01:02:18,257 --> 01:02:19,556
Ruth on solvent

1577
01:02:20,015 --> 01:02:22,422
extraction and Jeff Lo fell on the soil

1578
01:02:22,422 --> 01:02:25,052
food web. There are several presentations from doctor

1579
01:02:25,211 --> 01:02:27,681
Ethan Russo on Tu in the endo system

1580
01:02:27,681 --> 01:02:27,840
too.

1581
01:02:28,494 --> 01:02:30,010
While there be sure to check out the

1582
01:02:30,010 --> 01:02:33,283
03:10 part shaping fire session series, 1 with

1583
01:02:33,443 --> 01:02:35,838
Kevin Joe, 1 with Doctor Ethan Russo, and

1584
01:02:35,838 --> 01:02:36,875
1 with Jeff Lowe.

1585
01:02:37,448 --> 01:02:39,595
And even my own presentations on how to

1586
01:02:39,595 --> 01:02:41,820
approach finding your dream job in cannabis and

1587
01:02:41,820 --> 01:02:43,967
why we choose cannabis business even though the

1588
01:02:43,967 --> 01:02:44,841
risks are so high.

1589
01:02:45,414 --> 01:02:47,329
As of today, there's over 200 videos that

1590
01:02:47,329 --> 01:02:49,166
you can check out for free. So go

1591
01:02:49,166 --> 01:02:51,342
to youtube dot com slash

1592
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,396
or click on the link in the newsletter.

1593
01:02:56,597 --> 01:02:58,348
Sometimes the topics I wanna share with you

1594
01:02:58,348 --> 01:03:00,258
are far too brief for an entire shaping

1595
01:03:00,258 --> 01:03:03,043
fire episode. In those instances, I post them

1596
01:03:03,043 --> 01:03:03,680
to Instagram.

1597
01:03:04,251 --> 01:03:06,394
I invite you to follow my 2 Instagram

1598
01:03:06,394 --> 01:03:10,045
profiles and participate online. The shaping fire Instagram

1599
01:03:10,045 --> 01:03:12,719
has follow up post to shaping fire episodes

1600
01:03:13,078 --> 01:03:14,833
growing and processing best practices,

1601
01:03:15,232 --> 01:03:18,342
product trials, and of course, gorgeous flower photos.

1602
01:03:18,901 --> 01:03:21,373
The Shin Lo Instagram follows my travels on

1603
01:03:21,373 --> 01:03:24,503
cannabis garden tours. My successes and failures in

1604
01:03:24,503 --> 01:03:25,141
my own garden,

1605
01:03:25,861 --> 01:03:28,897
insights and best practices from personal grows everywhere

1606
01:03:28,897 --> 01:03:30,815
and always gorgeous flower photos.

1607
01:03:31,389 --> 01:03:33,627
On both profiles, the emphasis is on sharing

1608
01:03:33,627 --> 01:03:34,745
what I've learned in a way that you

1609
01:03:34,745 --> 01:03:36,983
can replicate it in your own garden, your

1610
01:03:36,983 --> 01:03:39,300
own hash lab or for your own can

1611
01:03:39,300 --> 01:03:41,784
path health. So I encourage you to follow

1612
01:03:41,784 --> 01:03:44,963
at shaping fire and at s And join

1613
01:03:44,963 --> 01:03:46,791
our online community on Instagram.

1614
01:03:48,319 --> 01:03:50,316
Welcome. You are listening to shaping fire and

1615
01:03:50,396 --> 01:03:52,713
I am your host, S los. And my

1616
01:03:52,713 --> 01:03:53,932
guest today is micro,

1617
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:54,870
Test Eat.

1618
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,166
So test, you know, some of these bio

1619
01:03:58,381 --> 01:04:00,923
aerosols end up in concentrate products, which are

1620
01:04:00,923 --> 01:04:01,797
then inhaled.

1621
01:04:02,449 --> 01:04:03,506
Is it primarily

1622
01:04:04,041 --> 01:04:06,829
inhaled products like dab oil that are at

1623
01:04:06,829 --> 01:04:09,457
risk of passing on some of these these

1624
01:04:09,457 --> 01:04:12,583
toxins? Or do we find an ingestion risk

1625
01:04:12,583 --> 01:04:15,480
in ethanol extracted for extract oils like Rs

1626
01:04:15,619 --> 01:04:17,936
or or crude or something like that that's

1627
01:04:17,936 --> 01:04:18,655
gonna be eaten.

1628
01:04:20,427 --> 01:04:21,465
That is a great question.

1629
01:04:22,183 --> 01:04:23,221
You know, with the way...

1630
01:04:23,859 --> 01:04:26,253
So these bilayer aerosols are generated in these

1631
01:04:26,253 --> 01:04:29,299
cannabis environments, but the the organisms can also

1632
01:04:29,299 --> 01:04:30,734
be on the plant matter. Like, you said,

1633
01:04:30,813 --> 01:04:32,965
it can also settle from the environment onto

1634
01:04:32,965 --> 01:04:33,603
the plant matter.

1635
01:04:34,719 --> 01:04:35,219
And

1636
01:04:36,088 --> 01:04:38,709
and that could carry over onto the product.

1637
01:04:39,344 --> 01:04:42,704
And that's really interesting that you bring up

1638
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,133
concentrates because some of these

1639
01:04:44,525 --> 01:04:46,364
like endo talks and some of these microbial

1640
01:04:46,364 --> 01:04:50,364
meta are pretty fat soluble. So in theory,

1641
01:04:50,525 --> 01:04:52,260
they would carry over with

1642
01:04:52,777 --> 01:04:53,515
pretty hydrophobic

1643
01:04:53,890 --> 01:04:54,390
molecule,

1644
01:04:55,004 --> 01:04:57,867
like, you know, Thc and Thc and and

1645
01:04:57,947 --> 01:04:58,924
Cbd and Cbd.

1646
01:05:00,034 --> 01:05:02,691
During these different types of extraction processes,

1647
01:05:03,630 --> 01:05:05,228
especially if you're using organic solvent.

1648
01:05:06,266 --> 01:05:09,869
Now, will they end up being intact and

1649
01:05:09,869 --> 01:05:13,128
able to cause harm in an individual. That

1650
01:05:13,128 --> 01:05:15,355
is not clear. And really, there's no...

1651
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:17,715
For some of these things, there's really no

1652
01:05:17,914 --> 01:05:19,695
testing that's done. So, like endo

1653
01:05:20,235 --> 01:05:23,055
and which is, again, part of those bacterial,

1654
01:05:23,675 --> 01:05:24,414
cell membranes

1655
01:05:25,114 --> 01:05:26,335
or there's

1656
01:05:26,728 --> 01:05:27,604
there's other

1657
01:05:28,081 --> 01:05:29,934
types of cell membranes from fungi

1658
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:31,185
that contain,

1659
01:05:32,857 --> 01:05:35,657
beta gl cans, which can also cause harm

1660
01:05:35,657 --> 01:05:38,385
1 breath in. It's another, component of bio

1661
01:05:38,443 --> 01:05:38,681
aerosols.

1662
01:05:39,477 --> 01:05:40,693
If you have a lot of fungal

1663
01:05:41,069 --> 01:05:42,103
contamination, will those,

1664
01:05:42,740 --> 01:05:43,638
carry over

1665
01:05:44,029 --> 01:05:44,529
onto,

1666
01:05:45,144 --> 01:05:47,534
your extracts. And that... Those are not really

1667
01:05:47,534 --> 01:05:48,171
being studied.

1668
01:05:48,729 --> 01:05:51,119
So for compliance testing, it's not required to

1669
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:52,234
look at that. And so,

1670
01:05:53,603 --> 01:05:56,153
it's it's... There's really no R and D

1671
01:05:56,153 --> 01:05:57,587
being performed in this area.

1672
01:05:58,543 --> 01:06:00,238
So we don't really know. Now

1673
01:06:00,868 --> 01:06:01,368
my

1674
01:06:02,777 --> 01:06:05,266
could potentially carry over and

1675
01:06:05,801 --> 01:06:08,108
concentrate, but we only really test for a

1676
01:06:08,108 --> 01:06:09,381
handful of my toxins.

1677
01:06:10,431 --> 01:06:12,921
Mostly that are produced by asp and pen

1678
01:06:13,137 --> 01:06:15,286
species, but we don't test for other types

1679
01:06:15,286 --> 01:06:17,458
of toxins that are produced by

1680
01:06:17,848 --> 01:06:18,587
plant pathogens,

1681
01:06:19,121 --> 01:06:21,985
like fu, which could potentially include some pretty

1682
01:06:21,985 --> 01:06:22,781
severe toxins,

1683
01:06:23,497 --> 01:06:24,929
and we don't test for that, so we

1684
01:06:24,929 --> 01:06:26,441
just don't know. It's a big black box.

1685
01:06:27,734 --> 01:06:30,131
And so it could potentially carry over, and

1686
01:06:30,131 --> 01:06:32,049
that's something that we're really interested in from

1687
01:06:32,049 --> 01:06:34,286
both the concentrate and on the flour, you

1688
01:06:34,286 --> 01:06:35,505
know, during combustion

1689
01:06:36,614 --> 01:06:39,391
or during drier vapor evaporation of flour?

1690
01:06:40,422 --> 01:06:41,160
Are these

1691
01:06:42,009 --> 01:06:44,072
you know, biological components destroyed?

1692
01:06:44,721 --> 01:06:46,647
You're heating up to, like, 400 degrees Celsius,

1693
01:06:46,940 --> 01:06:49,396
or, or you're vapor at, like, 1 adc

1694
01:06:49,396 --> 01:06:51,480
c or 01:50 c

1695
01:06:52,665 --> 01:06:55,534
And, you know, are you going to destroy

1696
01:06:55,534 --> 01:06:58,163
those biological components? Or is it going to

1697
01:06:58,163 --> 01:07:00,890
just aerosol them and generate new bio aerosols

1698
01:07:00,890 --> 01:07:04,722
that now contain these potentially bio agents. We

1699
01:07:04,722 --> 01:07:06,637
don't know. No 1 has really done any

1700
01:07:06,637 --> 01:07:08,565
research on that in cannabis but there is

1701
01:07:08,565 --> 01:07:10,974
research that's that has been done on tobacco

1702
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:14,292
that has shown that endo antioxidant can carry

1703
01:07:14,292 --> 01:07:18,372
over into tobacco smoke and some scientists do

1704
01:07:18,372 --> 01:07:18,872
hypo

1705
01:07:19,331 --> 01:07:20,870
that that endo

1706
01:07:22,128 --> 01:07:24,846
that is now in bio aerosols generated during

1707
01:07:24,846 --> 01:07:25,245
combustion,

1708
01:07:25,899 --> 01:07:26,377
are

1709
01:07:27,015 --> 01:07:28,929
that that it contributes to some of these

1710
01:07:29,248 --> 01:07:31,640
lung diseases that we see in cannabis smokers,

1711
01:07:32,038 --> 01:07:34,351
especially those that are more inflammatory based.

1712
01:07:35,323 --> 01:07:36,142
Like Copd.

1713
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:37,340
So

1714
01:07:38,037 --> 01:07:40,432
it's it's not clear in cannabis. There was

1715
01:07:40,432 --> 01:07:42,987
1 paper that was, published in the eighties

1716
01:07:42,987 --> 01:07:45,075
that showed the Astro drill spores could carry

1717
01:07:45,075 --> 01:07:45,974
over in

1718
01:07:46,669 --> 01:07:49,537
cannabis joint into the smoke. So clearly, it

1719
01:07:49,537 --> 01:07:51,449
doesn't... And and they were viable at the

1720
01:07:51,449 --> 01:07:53,202
very end, so they could form a colony

1721
01:07:53,202 --> 01:07:57,065
forming unit. So it's clear that these biological

1722
01:07:57,283 --> 01:07:59,674
components can transfer over from flower and into

1723
01:07:59,674 --> 01:07:59,993
smoke,

1724
01:08:00,551 --> 01:08:01,906
but we just don't know the extent of

1725
01:08:01,906 --> 01:08:03,597
that, you know, how much of it carries

1726
01:08:03,597 --> 01:08:05,991
over? Is it point 0001

1727
01:08:05,991 --> 01:08:07,986
percent of of what's on the flower it

1728
01:08:07,986 --> 01:08:09,742
carries over or is it a much bigger

1729
01:08:09,742 --> 01:08:10,300
chunk than that?

1730
01:08:10,952 --> 01:08:13,100
We just don't know, and there's really no

1731
01:08:14,532 --> 01:08:15,805
research being done on that as far as

1732
01:08:15,884 --> 01:08:16,760
I know.

1733
01:08:18,126 --> 01:08:18,626
And

1734
01:08:19,237 --> 01:08:21,960
as a academic researcher at a federally funded

1735
01:08:22,333 --> 01:08:22,650
institution,

1736
01:08:23,841 --> 01:08:27,280
unfortunately, even if cannabis is reschedule to schedule

1737
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:27,520
3,

1738
01:08:28,238 --> 01:08:28,477
drug.

1739
01:08:29,195 --> 01:08:31,111
Even if I had a Dea schedule 1

1740
01:08:31,111 --> 01:08:33,426
or schedule 3 license, I still can't go

1741
01:08:33,426 --> 01:08:33,665
out.

1742
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:36,473
And pick up commercial cannabis from my state.

1743
01:08:36,633 --> 01:08:38,149
So I couldn't walk down the street to

1744
01:08:38,149 --> 01:08:39,824
1 of the many dis and boulder,

1745
01:08:40,463 --> 01:08:42,233
grab flower and bring it back to my

1746
01:08:42,233 --> 01:08:43,211
federally funded

1747
01:08:43,587 --> 01:08:46,296
lab because that is illegal. Even if I

1748
01:08:46,296 --> 01:08:48,469
have a dea schedule license. I can only

1749
01:08:48,527 --> 01:08:49,760
source cannabis

1750
01:08:50,218 --> 01:08:52,396
from, a Dea registered,

1751
01:08:53,495 --> 01:08:56,212
night producer. So... Which is not representative of

1752
01:08:56,212 --> 01:08:58,530
the stuff that's actually being sold at retail.

1753
01:08:59,500 --> 01:09:01,087
Exactly. And that's a big challenge.

1754
01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:04,658
You know, for academic researchers who wanna ask

1755
01:09:04,658 --> 01:09:06,721
these questions. It's really hard. We can only

1756
01:09:06,721 --> 01:09:09,289
study, you know, University of Mississippi Flower, and

1757
01:09:09,369 --> 01:09:11,130
I think there's maybe 6 or 7 other

1758
01:09:11,130 --> 01:09:12,890
approved vendors across the United States.

1759
01:09:13,609 --> 01:09:13,770
And,

1760
01:09:14,569 --> 01:09:17,704
from an from a consumer safety perspective, that

1761
01:09:17,704 --> 01:09:18,204
is

1762
01:09:18,664 --> 01:09:20,744
very frustrating because I wanna know what's on

1763
01:09:20,744 --> 01:09:22,344
that flower, and I wanna know what carries

1764
01:09:22,344 --> 01:09:23,145
over into smoke.

1765
01:09:24,037 --> 01:09:26,033
And then on the concentrate side, we really

1766
01:09:26,033 --> 01:09:27,550
don't know. There's some work that's done on,

1767
01:09:27,710 --> 01:09:29,566
like, the heavy metals that can be generated.

1768
01:09:30,423 --> 01:09:32,672
And when pesticides are comb busted,

1769
01:09:33,630 --> 01:09:35,783
like, how... What does that result in? There's

1770
01:09:35,783 --> 01:09:37,299
some work on that, especially in tobacco.

1771
01:09:37,857 --> 01:09:40,729
But on concentrates, there's really not that much

1772
01:09:40,729 --> 01:09:41,605
that's understood.

1773
01:09:42,417 --> 01:09:42,917
About

1774
01:09:43,374 --> 01:09:46,242
the diverse different types of microbial meta tablets

1775
01:09:46,242 --> 01:09:48,074
that could be in there outside of, you

1776
01:09:48,074 --> 01:09:50,625
know, the 5 or so my toxins that

1777
01:09:50,625 --> 01:09:51,761
are tested for

1778
01:09:53,194 --> 01:09:55,274
it as part of regulatory measures, but there's

1779
01:09:55,274 --> 01:09:57,354
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different my.

1780
01:09:57,515 --> 01:09:59,675
There's endo. There's all sorts of other bits

1781
01:09:59,675 --> 01:10:01,649
and pieces that we're not really looking at

1782
01:10:01,927 --> 01:10:03,833
And so I think that that's an area

1783
01:10:03,833 --> 01:10:06,930
of research that that really needs funding and

1784
01:10:06,930 --> 01:10:09,573
and there has to be some leeway there

1785
01:10:09,804 --> 01:10:12,140
for researchers to be able to actually study

1786
01:10:12,838 --> 01:10:14,595
product that's out on the market that people

1787
01:10:14,595 --> 01:10:15,073
are using.

1788
01:10:15,952 --> 01:10:19,065
Yeah. For as popular as dab is, it

1789
01:10:19,065 --> 01:10:19,520
is

1790
01:10:20,118 --> 01:10:22,752
amazing that that this research hasn't been done

1791
01:10:22,752 --> 01:10:25,706
yet. There's so many people that could potentially

1792
01:10:25,706 --> 01:10:27,702
be at very serious risk. And we just

1793
01:10:27,702 --> 01:10:28,260
don't know yet.

1794
01:10:29,230 --> 01:10:31,216
So so, Tessa, wanna end with these 2

1795
01:10:31,216 --> 01:10:31,533
questions.

1796
01:10:32,885 --> 01:10:34,552
The first of the 2 is, you know,

1797
01:10:34,632 --> 01:10:37,668
we've talked a lot about the threat. That

1798
01:10:37,668 --> 01:10:40,065
cannabis workers are under at work.

1799
01:10:41,343 --> 01:10:44,001
What advice do you have for cannabis workers

1800
01:10:44,871 --> 01:10:48,395
who do work in an indoor cannabis environment

1801
01:10:48,851 --> 01:10:51,239
on what they should do best to protect

1802
01:10:51,239 --> 01:10:53,648
themselves because They, you know, they they love

1803
01:10:53,648 --> 01:10:56,444
working in cannabis, and they feel that, you

1804
01:10:56,444 --> 01:10:58,520
know, working in cannabis is a is a

1805
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,090
meaningful role to play, but we don't want

1806
01:11:01,090 --> 01:11:04,199
them to be putting themselves at risk to

1807
01:11:04,199 --> 01:11:04,699
be

1808
01:11:05,237 --> 01:11:07,708
a participant in this. So so what what

1809
01:11:07,708 --> 01:11:08,586
action should they take?

1810
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,239
Yeah. So I think that, you know, if

1811
01:11:13,239 --> 01:11:16,199
a cannabis worker is noticing that they are

1812
01:11:16,199 --> 01:11:19,012
having you know, shortness of breath, while they're

1813
01:11:19,012 --> 01:11:20,231
working or,

1814
01:11:20,610 --> 01:11:22,848
you know, and and I know I know

1815
01:11:22,848 --> 01:11:25,565
probably a dozen folks who've who've had these

1816
01:11:25,565 --> 01:11:28,307
types of rest issues when working with plan

1817
01:11:28,601 --> 01:11:29,101
that

1818
01:11:29,635 --> 01:11:31,143
they should definitely talk to if they have

1819
01:11:31,143 --> 01:11:33,684
a safety officer internally, they should talk to

1820
01:11:33,684 --> 01:11:35,193
them. They should talk to the supervisor.

1821
01:11:36,243 --> 01:11:37,760
And they should also,

1822
01:11:38,319 --> 01:11:40,235
go to the doctor and and be referred

1823
01:11:40,235 --> 01:11:42,869
to an all just and see if they

1824
01:11:42,869 --> 01:11:45,105
have allergies to cannabis or molds,

1825
01:11:46,553 --> 01:11:49,042
sometimes it's very challenging to get these cannabis

1826
01:11:49,258 --> 01:11:51,326
extracts to do, like, skin break tests on,

1827
01:11:52,201 --> 01:11:54,612
folks and in different states, it can be

1828
01:11:54,612 --> 01:11:57,169
very challenging to to be able to determine

1829
01:11:57,169 --> 01:11:59,566
if you do have allergies towards cannabis because

1830
01:11:59,566 --> 01:12:02,376
of the federally illegal status, even of these

1831
01:12:02,376 --> 01:12:04,450
cannabis extracts that are used for skin break

1832
01:12:04,450 --> 01:12:04,610
tests.

1833
01:12:05,806 --> 01:12:06,546
And so

1834
01:12:06,924 --> 01:12:09,329
I would recommend, you know, really making sure

1835
01:12:09,329 --> 01:12:11,716
that you are bringing your concerns to your

1836
01:12:11,716 --> 01:12:13,386
supervisors, to your safety officers,

1837
01:12:15,136 --> 01:12:17,219
make sure that you are wearing an n

1838
01:12:17,219 --> 01:12:18,731
n95. If you do notice you have that

1839
01:12:18,731 --> 01:12:19,867
respiratory distress

1840
01:12:20,242 --> 01:12:21,992
and really try to figure out what it

1841
01:12:21,992 --> 01:12:23,780
is that could be

1842
01:12:24,314 --> 01:12:25,747
leading to this at least go to an

1843
01:12:25,747 --> 01:12:27,657
all just and and do some basic skin

1844
01:12:27,657 --> 01:12:29,408
prick test to see if you,

1845
01:12:30,378 --> 01:12:32,130
do have any sen centralization to anything that

1846
01:12:32,130 --> 01:12:33,323
could be in that environment.

1847
01:12:34,517 --> 01:12:36,825
And because, yeah, I mean, there was 1

1848
01:12:36,825 --> 01:12:39,706
study that N conducted on these 10 workers

1849
01:12:39,706 --> 01:12:41,536
in the state of Washington, and they followed

1850
01:12:41,536 --> 01:12:44,663
them. They had different occupational asthma related

1851
01:12:45,198 --> 01:12:45,436
issues.

1852
01:12:46,247 --> 01:12:48,075
And I think it was over the course

1853
01:12:48,075 --> 01:12:51,412
of a year or so, and this N

1854
01:12:51,412 --> 01:12:54,297
study followed these workers and ultimately, unfortunately,

1855
01:12:55,082 --> 01:12:57,305
all 10 workers ended up having to quit

1856
01:12:57,305 --> 01:12:59,529
their jobs because they could well, do the

1857
01:12:59,529 --> 01:13:01,514
work anymore. So maybe, you could ask to

1858
01:13:01,514 --> 01:13:03,657
be reassigned to a different job duty,

1859
01:13:05,024 --> 01:13:07,251
especially if it's getting worse and worse, If

1860
01:13:07,251 --> 01:13:09,399
you wanna stay in the cannabis space. But,

1861
01:13:09,557 --> 01:13:10,831
yeah. I mean, once you develop,

1862
01:13:11,801 --> 01:13:13,948
a sen centralization or, you know,

1863
01:13:14,903 --> 01:13:17,288
you have these exposures. Sometimes if you develop

1864
01:13:17,288 --> 01:13:17,368
that,

1865
01:13:18,179 --> 01:13:19,614
It stays with you the rest of your

1866
01:13:19,614 --> 01:13:22,008
life. So... It really sounds like people should

1867
01:13:22,008 --> 01:13:24,640
be wearing the fives even if they're not

1868
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:26,554
having a trouble yet since you're saying that

1869
01:13:26,554 --> 01:13:27,351
it's acquired,

1870
01:13:28,163 --> 01:13:29,911
you know, if somebody loves working in cannabis,

1871
01:13:30,069 --> 01:13:31,817
it sounds like they should start wearing a

1872
01:13:31,817 --> 01:13:33,563
mask even when they don't have a problem,

1873
01:13:33,881 --> 01:13:35,469
so they don't develop a problem.

1874
01:13:36,279 --> 01:13:38,185
Nina kid It definitely couldn't hurt. I'm a

1875
01:13:38,185 --> 01:13:39,298
big fan of masking.

1876
01:13:39,855 --> 01:13:41,683
It definitely couldn't hurt another thing they could

1877
01:13:41,683 --> 01:13:43,613
do is start advocating for

1878
01:13:43,923 --> 01:13:46,859
basic indoor air quality monitoring. Mh. There are

1879
01:13:46,859 --> 01:13:50,193
very low cost monitors that can... They won't

1880
01:13:50,193 --> 01:13:51,779
tell you what's in the year, but they'll

1881
01:13:51,779 --> 01:13:54,183
tell you how many particles of different sizes

1882
01:13:54,183 --> 01:13:56,336
in there air. They can monitor, like, V

1883
01:13:56,336 --> 01:13:56,734
c's.

1884
01:13:57,770 --> 01:13:59,764
And they also monitor temperature and humidity. So

1885
01:13:59,764 --> 01:14:01,215
you could network those and get kind of

1886
01:14:01,215 --> 01:14:03,052
like an internet of things going and real

1887
01:14:03,052 --> 01:14:05,949
time monitoring up and running to evaluate,

1888
01:14:06,568 --> 01:14:08,087
the air quality in there, but it's also

1889
01:14:08,087 --> 01:14:09,546
good for other important

1890
01:14:09,859 --> 01:14:11,858
parameters like temperature and humidity, which you also

1891
01:14:11,858 --> 01:14:13,556
want to be dialed in for your grow

1892
01:14:13,615 --> 01:14:15,933
anyway. So that's another way that, you know,

1893
01:14:16,493 --> 01:14:18,570
a company can start looking at their air

1894
01:14:18,570 --> 01:14:19,070
quality

1895
01:14:19,543 --> 01:14:23,041
and, you know, putting in additional filtration, making

1896
01:14:23,041 --> 01:14:25,426
sure that they're really getting, you know, what's

1897
01:14:25,426 --> 01:14:27,730
recommended as far as Air exchange rates per

1898
01:14:27,730 --> 01:14:28,048
hour,

1899
01:14:29,655 --> 01:14:31,648
and making sure that they're taking some of

1900
01:14:31,648 --> 01:14:34,596
these engineering controls too. A mask is great,

1901
01:14:34,756 --> 01:14:36,132
but it's really that last

1902
01:14:36,524 --> 01:14:38,349
kind of line of defense. You know, there's

1903
01:14:38,349 --> 01:14:40,255
other things that you can do in the

1904
01:14:40,255 --> 01:14:41,628
hierarchy of controls

1905
01:14:42,001 --> 01:14:43,056
to protect

1906
01:14:43,589 --> 01:14:44,089
workers

1907
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,880
in these spaces. So good air filtration, making

1908
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,960
sure you're getting your air exchange rates up

1909
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:49,460
there

1910
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:51,119
and,

1911
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:52,180
monitoring

1912
01:14:52,734 --> 01:14:55,115
those environments can be really helpful so that

1913
01:14:55,115 --> 01:14:56,704
you're avoiding these high levels,

1914
01:14:57,419 --> 01:14:59,087
so that you don't necessarily have to wear

1915
01:14:59,087 --> 01:15:02,122
a mask because now you're you're controlling those

1916
01:15:02,122 --> 01:15:02,917
at a source.

1917
01:15:03,872 --> 01:15:06,417
Excellent. I love that absolute... Short term solutions

1918
01:15:06,417 --> 01:15:07,372
for canvas workers,

1919
01:15:07,944 --> 01:15:09,002
and longer term

1920
01:15:09,380 --> 01:15:12,889
solutions for managers of cannabis facilities who who

1921
01:15:12,889 --> 01:15:15,281
want their... Who wanna keep their employees safe

1922
01:15:15,281 --> 01:15:17,275
while not necessarily overs spending. I love it.

1923
01:15:17,608 --> 01:15:18,956
That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

1924
01:15:19,591 --> 01:15:21,970
So so tess, thank you so much for

1925
01:15:21,970 --> 01:15:24,509
joining us today here on shaping fire. You

1926
01:15:24,509 --> 01:15:25,515
know, this is a

1927
01:15:25,953 --> 01:15:28,108
while while this is an an easy topic

1928
01:15:28,108 --> 01:15:30,602
for you as a scientist. I think that

1929
01:15:30,899 --> 01:15:32,278
those of us who

1930
01:15:32,908 --> 01:15:34,734
you know, have been in love with cannabis

1931
01:15:34,734 --> 01:15:37,195
for years and are are so used to

1932
01:15:37,195 --> 01:15:38,489
defending cannabis

1933
01:15:39,100 --> 01:15:40,314
from all the haters

1934
01:15:40,703 --> 01:15:42,618
that we we never wanna say that there's

1935
01:15:42,618 --> 01:15:47,268
anything bad or potentially dangerous about cannabis. And

1936
01:15:47,565 --> 01:15:49,805
and you know, after after doing this sir.

1937
01:15:49,885 --> 01:15:51,314
As long as I have, I I have

1938
01:15:51,314 --> 01:15:54,093
to say, unfortunately, when, you know, cannabis can

1939
01:15:54,093 --> 01:15:55,841
be a threat, and we have to stay

1940
01:15:55,841 --> 01:15:58,476
aware of it even though it may also

1941
01:15:58,476 --> 01:16:00,304
be a sacred plant to us.

1942
01:16:01,416 --> 01:16:01,734
Also,

1943
01:16:02,369 --> 01:16:03,903
I understand that this is a pretty

1944
01:16:04,609 --> 01:16:06,527
This is this is an opinion here, but

1945
01:16:06,527 --> 01:16:08,364
it also is not lost on me that

1946
01:16:08,364 --> 01:16:11,341
the harms from cannabis come from a

1947
01:16:11,971 --> 01:16:12,788
indoor growing

1948
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:13,740
where

1949
01:16:14,273 --> 01:16:16,415
regenerative is so often outdoor growing.

1950
01:16:17,050 --> 01:16:19,510
And b, it's... This is all worse at

1951
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:20,010
scale

1952
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,234
when we all tend to love craft.

1953
01:16:22,872 --> 01:16:24,865
And so Mh. I'm not saying that we...

1954
01:16:25,025 --> 01:16:27,577
That that that large scale indoor can't be

1955
01:16:27,577 --> 01:16:28,932
grown in a safe way. That's not what

1956
01:16:29,092 --> 01:16:31,177
I'm saying. But I am saying that oh

1957
01:16:31,177 --> 01:16:33,087
gosh does seem to be, a bit more

1958
01:16:33,087 --> 01:16:36,052
evidence for outdoor regenerative growing. So

1959
01:16:37,078 --> 01:16:39,145
So so test, thank you so much for

1960
01:16:39,145 --> 01:16:42,325
for sharing your experience and your insight, and

1961
01:16:42,325 --> 01:16:44,392
and also, thank you for being willing to

1962
01:16:44,392 --> 01:16:45,766
give us a little bit of theo,

1963
01:16:46,141 --> 01:16:47,755
mix in with your hard data,

1964
01:16:48,395 --> 01:16:50,475
so that, you know, here at the beginning

1965
01:16:50,475 --> 01:16:52,795
of this kind of research, we can understand

1966
01:16:52,795 --> 01:16:55,685
what the data might be meaning better then

1967
01:16:55,685 --> 01:16:58,231
then than just the raw data itself. You've

1968
01:16:58,231 --> 01:16:59,903
been a wonderful guest. Thank you very much.

1969
01:17:00,857 --> 01:17:03,022
Thanks so much for having me. Fabulous.

1970
01:17:03,501 --> 01:17:05,095
So if you would like to

1971
01:17:05,573 --> 01:17:08,524
be in contact with tests or if you

1972
01:17:08,524 --> 01:17:10,358
just wanna follow along with her work as

1973
01:17:10,358 --> 01:17:10,916
it evolves,

1974
01:17:11,965 --> 01:17:14,028
the best place to do that is through

1975
01:17:14,028 --> 01:17:14,845
her linkedin

1976
01:17:15,218 --> 01:17:18,552
at test Ed, that's EIDEM.

1977
01:17:19,284 --> 01:17:22,244
Or you can go and follow the the

1978
01:17:22,244 --> 01:17:24,244
page for her lab at C u boulder.

1979
01:17:24,405 --> 01:17:27,078
So that's the c boulder aero

1980
01:17:27,610 --> 01:17:28,110
and

1981
01:17:28,483 --> 01:17:29,118
disinfection lab.

1982
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:31,657
You can find more episodes of the shaping

1983
01:17:31,657 --> 01:17:33,774
fire podcast and subscribe to the show at

1984
01:17:33,894 --> 01:17:35,971
shaping fire dot com and wherever you get

1985
01:17:35,971 --> 01:17:38,289
your podcasts. If you enjoyed the show, we'd

1986
01:17:38,289 --> 01:17:40,047
really appreciate it. If you'd leave a positive

1987
01:17:40,047 --> 01:17:42,045
review of the podcast wherever you download.

1988
01:17:42,618 --> 01:17:44,609
Your view will help others find the show

1989
01:17:44,609 --> 01:17:46,601
so they can enjoy it too. On the

1990
01:17:46,601 --> 01:17:48,752
shaping fire website, you can also subscribe to

1991
01:17:48,752 --> 01:17:51,319
the newsletter for insights into the latest cannabis

1992
01:17:51,319 --> 01:17:53,551
news, exclusive videos and giveaways.

1993
01:17:54,189 --> 01:17:56,103
On the shipping fire website, you also find

1994
01:17:56,103 --> 01:17:58,016
transcripts of today's podcast as well.

1995
01:17:58,667 --> 01:18:00,572
Be sure to follow on Instagram for all

1996
01:18:00,572 --> 01:18:02,555
original content not found on the podcast.

1997
01:18:02,952 --> 01:18:05,887
That's at shaping fire and at Shin On

1998
01:18:06,204 --> 01:18:06,363
Instagram.

1999
01:18:07,015 --> 01:18:08,935
Be sure to check out shaping fire Youtube

2000
01:18:08,935 --> 01:18:11,675
channel for exclusive interviews, farm tours and cannabis

2001
01:18:11,734 --> 01:18:11,895
lectures.

2002
01:18:12,614 --> 01:18:14,774
Does your company wanna reach our national audience

2003
01:18:14,774 --> 01:18:15,975
of cannabis enthusiasts?

2004
01:18:16,708 --> 01:18:19,103
Email hotspot at shaping fire dot com to

2005
01:18:19,103 --> 01:18:21,417
find out how. Thanks for listening to shaping

2006
01:18:21,417 --> 01:18:23,492
fire. I've been your host, s.