1 00:00:07,265 --> 00:00:08,365 - We are passionate people. 2 00:00:08,505 --> 00:00:09,685 If you weren't passionate, 3 00:00:09,745 --> 00:00:12,005 you probably wouldn't be listening to this podcast. 4 00:00:12,865 --> 00:00:14,445 And passionate people get excited. 5 00:00:14,545 --> 00:00:16,685 And when I get excited, sometimes I want 6 00:00:16,685 --> 00:00:18,245 to do all the things. 7 00:00:18,845 --> 00:00:20,365 I want to do everything at once. 8 00:00:20,725 --> 00:00:21,925 I don't wanna leave anything out. 9 00:00:22,045 --> 00:00:23,805 I wanna have all the experiences, 10 00:00:24,705 --> 00:00:26,165 and usually that works out for me. 11 00:00:26,275 --> 00:00:30,725 Life can be great like that, and often it can be exhausting. 12 00:00:30,825 --> 00:00:32,565 And sometimes I screw stuff up 13 00:00:32,565 --> 00:00:34,885 because I'm trying to do too much at the same time. 14 00:00:35,915 --> 00:00:37,485 Today's episode is about how 15 00:00:37,485 --> 00:00:39,925 to build your regeneratively minded cannabis 16 00:00:40,035 --> 00:00:41,045 farm with balance. 17 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:44,565 It's about building your soil without blowing up the farm. 18 00:00:44,955 --> 00:00:47,085 It's about staying busy without going crazy, 19 00:00:47,545 --> 00:00:49,605 and it's about building sustainable future 20 00:00:49,755 --> 00:00:51,165 without being your own bully. 21 00:00:52,515 --> 00:00:54,775 If you wanna learn about cannabis health cultivation 22 00:00:54,775 --> 00:00:55,935 and technique efficiently 23 00:00:55,935 --> 00:00:57,855 and with good cheer, I encourage you 24 00:00:57,855 --> 00:00:59,055 to subscribe to our newsletter. 25 00:00:59,345 --> 00:01:01,855 We'll send you new podcast episodes as they come out, 26 00:01:01,855 --> 00:01:03,775 delivered right to your inbox, along 27 00:01:03,775 --> 00:01:04,855 with commentary on a couple 28 00:01:04,855 --> 00:01:06,615 of the most important news items from the week. 29 00:01:06,615 --> 00:01:09,415 And videos too. Don't rely on social media 30 00:01:09,475 --> 00:01:11,375 to let you know when a new episode is published. 31 00:01:11,765 --> 00:01:12,895 Sign up for the updates to make 32 00:01:12,895 --> 00:01:13,975 sure you don't miss an episode. 33 00:01:15,325 --> 00:01:17,975 Also, we're giving away very cool prizes to folks 34 00:01:17,995 --> 00:01:19,695 who are signed up to receive the newsletter. 35 00:01:20,245 --> 00:01:23,575 This month's giveaway sponsor is fish poop brand fish poop. 36 00:01:24,245 --> 00:01:26,935 Fish poop fertilizer, feeds, plants and microbes, 37 00:01:26,935 --> 00:01:29,815 and improves soil structure with rich organic matter. 38 00:01:30,235 --> 00:01:32,855 It contains available nutrients for the quick feed 39 00:01:33,155 --> 00:01:36,215 and undigested organic material for slow release. 40 00:01:36,365 --> 00:01:38,495 With a wealth of beneficial organisms, 41 00:01:39,485 --> 00:01:42,815 five lucky winners will receive a whole gallon of fish poop, 42 00:01:43,065 --> 00:01:44,695 along with some fish poop swag. 43 00:01:45,275 --> 00:01:48,175 So go to shaping fire.com to sign up for the newsletter 44 00:01:48,315 --> 00:01:49,775 and be entered into this month's 45 00:01:49,775 --> 00:01:51,975 and all future newsletter prize drawings. 46 00:01:53,485 --> 00:01:55,495 Also, it is true that I've been away for a minute. 47 00:01:55,835 --> 00:01:57,295 Thanks for the messages from the 48 00:01:57,295 --> 00:01:58,455 folks who were checking on me. 49 00:01:58,915 --> 00:02:01,535 My father passed away last month, and I was off the farm 50 00:02:01,535 --> 00:02:02,935 and back home in Michigan, helping 51 00:02:02,935 --> 00:02:04,495 with his end of life preparations. 52 00:02:05,035 --> 00:02:07,695 I'm back now and back at it. So thanks for your patience. 53 00:02:09,205 --> 00:02:10,625 You are listening to Shaping Fire, 54 00:02:10,625 --> 00:02:12,625 and I'm your host, Shang Los. 55 00:02:13,215 --> 00:02:18,185 Welcome to episode 114. My guest today is Daniel Stein. 56 00:02:18,725 --> 00:02:20,625 Daniel Stein was born in Humboldt County 57 00:02:20,645 --> 00:02:21,705 and grew up in Hawaii. 58 00:02:22,165 --> 00:02:24,065 He went to college first for engineering, 59 00:02:24,065 --> 00:02:25,625 and then for soils, forestry, 60 00:02:25,625 --> 00:02:26,985 and eventually environmental science. 61 00:02:27,605 --> 00:02:30,385 He started farming vegetables in cannabis in Hawaii, 62 00:02:30,715 --> 00:02:31,745 doing lettuce farming 63 00:02:31,805 --> 00:02:34,945 and permaculture installations while caretaking a citrus 64 00:02:34,945 --> 00:02:38,185 and avocado orchard in the jungle on land that was part 65 00:02:38,185 --> 00:02:40,385 of Terrence McKenna's ethno botanical gardens. 66 00:02:40,385 --> 00:02:43,545 In fact, Daniel returned to the home in Humbold 67 00:02:43,545 --> 00:02:46,665 where he was born and started gardening and farming in 2000. 68 00:02:47,685 --> 00:02:49,665 In 2010, he met his wife Taylor, 69 00:02:49,965 --> 00:02:52,345 and they became Priceland Forest Farm. 70 00:02:52,655 --> 00:02:55,385 They started selling vegetables at farmer's markets in 2011. 71 00:02:56,085 --> 00:02:58,985 In 2016, they entered the regulated cannabis market. 72 00:02:59,705 --> 00:03:00,765 In 2017, 73 00:03:01,075 --> 00:03:02,725 Priceland Forest Farm won the 74 00:03:02,725 --> 00:03:04,365 Regenerative Cannabis Farm Award. 75 00:03:04,555 --> 00:03:06,325 That was a great year at Emerald Cup. 76 00:03:07,485 --> 00:03:09,565 Nowadays, they grow about three quarters of an acre 77 00:03:09,565 --> 00:03:12,085 of vegetables, 5,000 square feet of cannabis, 78 00:03:12,345 --> 00:03:14,085 and a small orchard and perennial garden, 79 00:03:14,545 --> 00:03:15,845 all low or no-till. 80 00:03:17,205 --> 00:03:20,035 Today, we're gonna use Daniel's parcel as an example of how 81 00:03:20,035 --> 00:03:22,795 to approach growing regeneratively on your own new parcel 82 00:03:23,175 --> 00:03:24,955 or transitioning from petroleum 83 00:03:24,955 --> 00:03:26,995 and salt fertilizers to regenerative growing. 84 00:03:27,615 --> 00:03:30,315 The lessons learned from his parcel can likely be 85 00:03:30,315 --> 00:03:31,435 transferred to yours as well. 86 00:03:32,175 --> 00:03:34,435 During the first set, we'll talk about assessing your 87 00:03:34,675 --> 00:03:37,235 property for cannabis cultivation, building soil, 88 00:03:37,455 --> 00:03:39,955 and choosing cover crops and companion plants for cannabis. 89 00:03:40,815 --> 00:03:43,835 In the second set, we will discuss water sequestration, 90 00:03:44,215 --> 00:03:46,395 animal husbandry, and animal fertilizers, 91 00:03:46,615 --> 00:03:48,675 and if crop rotation applies to cannabis. 92 00:03:49,535 --> 00:03:52,235 And we finish the episode considering controlled fire burns, 93 00:03:52,585 --> 00:03:54,235 long-term research opportunities 94 00:03:54,535 --> 00:03:57,155 and the economics of growing cannabis regeneratively, 95 00:03:57,705 --> 00:03:59,275 welcome to Shaping Fire, Daniel. 96 00:04:00,445 --> 00:04:01,665 - Ah, happy to be here. 97 00:04:01,835 --> 00:04:04,265 - Thank you so much for giving us some of your time on a, 98 00:04:04,265 --> 00:04:06,625 on a busy midweek Tuesday during the spring. 99 00:04:06,785 --> 00:04:09,305 I know that you have gotta be totally busy on the farm right 100 00:04:09,305 --> 00:04:11,265 now, getting everything in place for the summer crops. 101 00:04:12,505 --> 00:04:15,065 - Absolutely. But it, it's really nice to have the excuse 102 00:04:15,065 --> 00:04:17,105 and opportunity to sit down for a minute, . 103 00:04:17,505 --> 00:04:19,825 - Excellent. Fantastic. Um, uh, I like 104 00:04:19,825 --> 00:04:21,465 that you have set up outdoors. 105 00:04:21,645 --> 00:04:24,025 Um, I think you're, this is the first time I've ever had 106 00:04:24,305 --> 00:04:25,785 somebody set up outdoors, so, 107 00:04:26,085 --> 00:04:29,025 so you dear listener can enjoy the, uh, the, the birds 108 00:04:29,025 --> 00:04:30,865 of Humboldt during the interview . 109 00:04:31,405 --> 00:04:34,545 - And I can too. - Excellent. So let's get right into it. 110 00:04:34,685 --> 00:04:36,385 So, you know, um, I understand 111 00:04:36,385 --> 00:04:38,305 that when you arrived on your property, 112 00:04:38,685 --> 00:04:40,185 you knew you had a lot to do 113 00:04:40,205 --> 00:04:42,745 to make your property into a functional farm. 114 00:04:42,765 --> 00:04:44,865 And, and I think that's the case with a lot 115 00:04:44,925 --> 00:04:46,185 of new homesteaders. 116 00:04:46,695 --> 00:04:48,225 What were the biggest concerns 117 00:04:48,245 --> 00:04:51,705 or projects that you knew you needed to address first off, 118 00:04:51,805 --> 00:04:53,265 in order to build out your farm? 119 00:04:54,535 --> 00:04:57,115 - So, I, I mean, on a homestead level, 120 00:04:57,175 --> 00:04:59,435 the first thing was making sure I had a place to stay. 121 00:04:59,975 --> 00:05:03,675 But, but on, on, on the, the land level, the, 122 00:05:03,695 --> 00:05:05,435 the property had been, um, 123 00:05:06,155 --> 00:05:07,915 unmaintained for quite a long time. 124 00:05:08,135 --> 00:05:10,835 So in terms of gardening, the first thing I had 125 00:05:10,835 --> 00:05:12,555 to do is cle the space. 126 00:05:12,605 --> 00:05:14,195 We're, we're in a forest environment, 127 00:05:14,195 --> 00:05:16,835 and the forest had had re encroached a lot 128 00:05:16,835 --> 00:05:21,235 of tree seedlings, uh, Himalaya, blackberry, white thorn, 129 00:05:21,345 --> 00:05:23,835 various plants that, that had re encroached on, 130 00:05:23,935 --> 00:05:25,555 on historic garden spaces. 131 00:05:25,735 --> 00:05:29,155 So my first order business was, was to get 132 00:05:29,155 --> 00:05:30,955 to clearing some burning, 133 00:05:31,065 --> 00:05:32,955 some chipping when I could borrow a chipper. 134 00:05:32,995 --> 00:05:35,595 I had very little resources at the time. 135 00:05:36,255 --> 00:05:39,075 And then, um, for cultivating cannabis, which, 136 00:05:39,285 --> 00:05:42,235 which I was really excited to do here, um, 137 00:05:42,655 --> 00:05:43,875 was building a greenhouse. 138 00:05:43,905 --> 00:05:47,755 When I came back onto the property, um, it was 2000 139 00:05:48,055 --> 00:05:51,755 and, uh, we were in the two 15 days where 140 00:05:52,535 --> 00:05:55,035 it was vague what, what the legality was, 141 00:05:55,055 --> 00:05:57,685 but if you hid it in a greenhouse where they couldn't see it 142 00:05:57,685 --> 00:05:59,725 and get a warrant, you were, you were pretty safe. 143 00:05:59,865 --> 00:06:03,405 So clearing enough space, building a greenhouse. 144 00:06:03,465 --> 00:06:05,285 And then as I started to build out the garden 145 00:06:05,305 --> 00:06:07,285 as it was cleared, my next order 146 00:06:07,285 --> 00:06:09,165 of business was getting a soil test. 147 00:06:09,345 --> 00:06:11,365 So I, I knew what I was dealing with 148 00:06:11,365 --> 00:06:14,565 and knew my approach to bringing that soil in 149 00:06:14,565 --> 00:06:16,645 that gardening space to a place 150 00:06:16,645 --> 00:06:18,005 where it was productive again. 151 00:06:18,455 --> 00:06:20,165 - Right on. I wanna hit on a couple of those. 152 00:06:20,215 --> 00:06:22,445 Let's, let's start with the clearing. Mm-Hmm. . 153 00:06:22,445 --> 00:06:24,285 So, um, I don't have a big parcel. 154 00:06:24,505 --> 00:06:25,925 My, my farm is pretty small. 155 00:06:26,075 --> 00:06:28,165 It's actually more like a homestead with a big garden. 156 00:06:28,745 --> 00:06:32,205 And, um, you know, I know that when it gets right down 157 00:06:32,205 --> 00:06:33,765 to it, if I wanna clear something 158 00:06:33,785 --> 00:06:37,005 and want it to be, if I want it to stay clear, I need 159 00:06:37,005 --> 00:06:38,445 to clear it down to the roots. 160 00:06:38,865 --> 00:06:41,525 Um, yep. It sounds like you've done a lot of clearing 161 00:06:41,825 --> 00:06:43,805 for people who are new to their property 162 00:06:43,985 --> 00:06:47,725 and they, they need to clear things, um, like, uh, 163 00:06:47,725 --> 00:06:50,485 like Scotch Broom where I live, which is absolutely heinous. 164 00:06:50,905 --> 00:06:53,405 Um, mm-Hmm. . Um, did you learn any tricks 165 00:06:53,405 --> 00:06:55,725 about clearing that, that you would recommend to somebody 166 00:06:55,745 --> 00:06:57,285 who is new at clearing? 167 00:06:58,305 --> 00:07:00,165 - Um, do it while you're young. 168 00:07:00,445 --> 00:07:04,085 - , - Um, scotch Broom specifically, 169 00:07:04,085 --> 00:07:05,485 there's great tools for that. 170 00:07:05,665 --> 00:07:07,925 And, and some of those tools like a weed wrench and, 171 00:07:07,985 --> 00:07:10,005 and various tools that are specifically for, 172 00:07:10,305 --> 00:07:14,085 for small woody things under, under an inch diameter stems 173 00:07:14,475 --> 00:07:15,525 that give you leverage 174 00:07:15,525 --> 00:07:17,205 to pull things out are, are wonderful. 175 00:07:17,205 --> 00:07:18,925 They work somewhat for Blackberry. 176 00:07:19,465 --> 00:07:22,565 One of the things I've learned in land development is it's 177 00:07:22,565 --> 00:07:26,005 really worth just doing it right from the start. 178 00:07:26,185 --> 00:07:28,165 You know, I didn't have a lot 179 00:07:28,165 --> 00:07:30,325 of resources at the time I was doing this. 180 00:07:31,225 --> 00:07:35,405 It would've been worth it to hire a, 181 00:07:35,765 --> 00:07:38,165 a mini excavator or rent one and, 182 00:07:38,225 --> 00:07:40,925 and just, just get it done from the start. 183 00:07:41,065 --> 00:07:44,695 Do that land disturbance early on on land 184 00:07:44,695 --> 00:07:47,855 that you're already transitioning from one thing to another, 185 00:07:48,465 --> 00:07:51,815 where the disturbance won't make as big of an impact, 186 00:07:51,875 --> 00:07:55,095 do the disturbance, and then heal the disturbance with, 187 00:07:55,125 --> 00:07:59,095 with kind of the new paradigm, uh, of, uh, of a different, 188 00:07:59,315 --> 00:08:02,765 uh, biological, uh, 189 00:08:03,995 --> 00:08:05,125 pattern happening. 190 00:08:05,445 --> 00:08:07,485 - I like the suggestion that you're making that, like, 191 00:08:07,485 --> 00:08:10,085 you know, as regenerative farmers, we're looking to do, 192 00:08:10,505 --> 00:08:12,965 in most cases as little disturbance as possible, 193 00:08:13,385 --> 00:08:16,085 but you weigh that realistically over time 194 00:08:16,505 --> 00:08:18,885 and over the fact that you needed to be able 195 00:08:18,885 --> 00:08:20,405 to get in your crops in order 196 00:08:20,545 --> 00:08:23,085 to make the revenue to sustain the farm. 197 00:08:23,145 --> 00:08:26,605 So you're like, all right, well, I, I can either do some, 198 00:08:26,905 --> 00:08:29,605 you know, careful disturbance now and, and, 199 00:08:29,705 --> 00:08:32,445 and then come right behind it with a lot of healing, 200 00:08:33,145 --> 00:08:36,205 or I can wait and do it the slow way all by hand 201 00:08:36,205 --> 00:08:37,845 and then potentially miss the season, 202 00:08:38,095 --> 00:08:40,165 which also will not be good for the farm. 203 00:08:40,665 --> 00:08:44,005 And so you, you really weighed the type of disturbance 204 00:08:44,005 --> 00:08:45,005 that you're going to do, 205 00:08:45,265 --> 00:08:46,885 and I think that clarity is important. 206 00:08:47,395 --> 00:08:49,005 - Well, and, and even in the long term, 207 00:08:49,005 --> 00:08:52,045 like there's the heavy handed disturbance, uh, of, um, 208 00:08:52,285 --> 00:08:53,565 bringing machinery onto the land, 209 00:08:53,585 --> 00:08:57,765 but then if you have, say, small diameter a foot 210 00:08:57,825 --> 00:08:59,765 to 18 inch diameter trees, 211 00:09:00,025 --> 00:09:03,325 and you don't get the roots out, you will be coming back in 212 00:09:03,325 --> 00:09:06,485 with a chainsaw depending on the species of trees and, 213 00:09:06,625 --> 00:09:10,445 and burning fuel and using oil again and again 214 00:09:10,445 --> 00:09:14,335 and again, um, to keep that held back. 215 00:09:14,435 --> 00:09:18,915 So it's like, uh, you know, more upfront and then, 216 00:09:19,375 --> 00:09:21,915 and then, um, the lack of disturbance 217 00:09:22,015 --> 00:09:25,915 or a continuous disturbance to maintain that project, 218 00:09:27,495 --> 00:09:29,915 - You know, a lot i it, your, your experience 219 00:09:29,915 --> 00:09:31,555 of getting on the property 220 00:09:31,815 --> 00:09:35,075 and then, uh, first off needing to, uh, 221 00:09:35,075 --> 00:09:36,355 get a greenhouse going is 222 00:09:36,355 --> 00:09:38,035 that's a pretty typical experience. 223 00:09:38,655 --> 00:09:41,915 And, um, I've, I've talked to different farmers and, 224 00:09:41,975 --> 00:09:45,715 and I enjoy hearing, um, how they decided where 225 00:09:45,815 --> 00:09:47,115 to place their greenhouse 226 00:09:47,145 --> 00:09:49,955 because, you know, on some properties it's obvious, right? 227 00:09:49,975 --> 00:09:52,835 You put it into one place that gets the most sun Mm-hmm. 228 00:09:52,875 --> 00:09:54,315 . But if, if you've got things like, you know, 229 00:09:54,615 --> 00:09:57,715 um, uh, uh, seasonal sun changes or, 230 00:09:57,935 --> 00:10:01,315 or sun is available everywhere on the property, um, 231 00:10:01,365 --> 00:10:04,635 there can be a lot of competing, um, uh, reasons 232 00:10:04,735 --> 00:10:05,955 to, of, of placement. 233 00:10:06,215 --> 00:10:08,155 Uh, how did you come to the decision of where 234 00:10:08,155 --> 00:10:09,835 to put your greenhouse? 235 00:10:11,095 --> 00:10:14,635 - Uh, well, um, you know, 236 00:10:15,235 --> 00:10:18,675 I would've loved to have been on the land for five years 237 00:10:18,815 --> 00:10:22,475 before I made any infrastructure commitments, you know? 238 00:10:22,475 --> 00:10:24,075 Mm-Hmm. to, to kinda see 239 00:10:24,255 --> 00:10:25,395 the pattern of things. 240 00:10:25,775 --> 00:10:28,715 And, and one piece of advice I would give 241 00:10:28,715 --> 00:10:30,675 to new homesteaders is really to, 242 00:10:31,335 --> 00:10:33,555 to think about if you can make infrastructure 243 00:10:33,555 --> 00:10:35,955 that's functional, but not permanent 244 00:10:36,535 --> 00:10:38,275 in the early part of homesteading. 245 00:10:38,275 --> 00:10:40,355 So like, if you do put your greenhouse somewhere 246 00:10:40,355 --> 00:10:42,475 where it makes sense when you first do it, 247 00:10:42,495 --> 00:10:45,275 but then it makes less sense as time goes on, 248 00:10:45,895 --> 00:10:48,595 you can take it apart and move it to somewhere new. 249 00:10:49,395 --> 00:10:54,075 Um, but yeah, I, I've seen a lot of, 250 00:10:54,175 --> 00:10:56,715 of land development, especially around cannabis growing, 251 00:10:57,145 --> 00:11:01,635 make mistakes as far as that, that desire 252 00:11:01,695 --> 00:11:05,755 to get in your cash crop and the first season makes you rush 253 00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:08,235 and make kind of the decisions 254 00:11:08,235 --> 00:11:10,955 that you can pull off rather than the decisions you 255 00:11:10,955 --> 00:11:12,075 want to see in the long term. 256 00:11:12,975 --> 00:11:15,755 Um, and, and there's no way around that to some extent, 257 00:11:16,635 --> 00:11:19,255 but, um, I, I'm kind of wandering off. 258 00:11:19,375 --> 00:11:21,695 I forgot the, the aim of the question at first. Oh, 259 00:11:21,695 --> 00:11:22,695 - That's, that's all right. 260 00:11:22,695 --> 00:11:24,295 You know, I think that you make a good point 261 00:11:24,325 --> 00:11:28,855 that the first step on the new parcel is not to dig, uh, 262 00:11:28,875 --> 00:11:31,335 the first step on the new parcel is 263 00:11:31,395 --> 00:11:34,655 to put down your chair in the middle of the, of the, 264 00:11:34,715 --> 00:11:38,295 of the area and look at it with notes and, and, 265 00:11:38,315 --> 00:11:41,575 and really like, think and dream and plan 266 00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:44,055 before you dive into making things. 267 00:11:44,595 --> 00:11:46,975 And, um, uh, that planning part, 268 00:11:47,035 --> 00:11:48,575 you don't wanna short shrift 269 00:11:48,575 --> 00:11:51,655 because, you know, it kind of reminds me of, you know, uh, 270 00:11:51,715 --> 00:11:54,525 the whole measure twice cut once idea. 271 00:11:54,715 --> 00:11:57,365 Exactly. You really don't wanna build the greenhouse 272 00:11:57,465 --> 00:12:00,125 and then have to move the greenhouse in the same season. 273 00:12:00,315 --> 00:12:02,885 It's really better to spend a little bit of time 274 00:12:02,915 --> 00:12:04,965 that you think you might be able to, might, 275 00:12:04,965 --> 00:12:06,685 should be doing something else, and, 276 00:12:06,705 --> 00:12:08,325 and really plan out what you're going to do 277 00:12:08,325 --> 00:12:09,685 for the season. There. 278 00:12:09,845 --> 00:12:12,885 - I, I can't even count the number of times I, 279 00:12:13,035 --> 00:12:15,485 I've confidently made a design 280 00:12:15,485 --> 00:12:17,805 or a decision about something like irrigation, 281 00:12:18,195 --> 00:12:21,325 ordered a bunch of parts, spent money, put it all together, 282 00:12:21,585 --> 00:12:23,765 and then realized the areas 283 00:12:23,815 --> 00:12:25,485 where it falls short . Yeah. 284 00:12:26,305 --> 00:12:29,925 - So a lot of people, um, who are coming to their property 285 00:12:30,675 --> 00:12:33,645 also have got limited resources like you did. 286 00:12:34,305 --> 00:12:36,005 And, um, they really struggle. 287 00:12:36,325 --> 00:12:39,165 I have really struggled on the, okay, it's, 288 00:12:39,195 --> 00:12:41,765 it's my first season and I, I need to get going. 289 00:12:42,425 --> 00:12:46,725 Um, I can either do a, a fast and cheap greenhouse, 290 00:12:47,185 --> 00:12:50,085 or I can build something that I'll be proud of 291 00:12:50,105 --> 00:12:51,685 and will last me a long time. 292 00:12:51,945 --> 00:12:53,125 And, and, you know, 293 00:12:53,125 --> 00:12:54,885 perhaps I can go even later in the season 294 00:12:54,885 --> 00:12:57,725 because if I get an, uh, an unexpected snow, 295 00:12:57,795 --> 00:12:58,925 I'll be able to handle it. 296 00:12:59,225 --> 00:13:01,605 You know? How how did you weigh that for yourself? 297 00:13:02,225 --> 00:13:06,485 The, the, the wanting to not waste resources, 298 00:13:06,785 --> 00:13:08,325 but needed to get something up, 299 00:13:08,665 --> 00:13:11,725 but also not having the resources to just throw money at it 300 00:13:11,725 --> 00:13:13,245 and make something, you know, 301 00:13:14,035 --> 00:13:16,605 make a castle greenhouse right outta the bat? 302 00:13:17,195 --> 00:13:18,885 - Well, I mean, there's a bunch of approaches. 303 00:13:19,005 --> 00:13:22,885 I, I was very fortunate in that I had access to a wood mill, 304 00:13:22,885 --> 00:13:24,805 so I made a, a wooden greenhouse. 305 00:13:25,865 --> 00:13:29,205 Um, but since then, various approaches, I, 306 00:13:29,595 --> 00:13:34,005 there's a lot available online of, of used, uh, materials. 307 00:13:34,105 --> 00:13:37,245 You could, you can get on Craigslist, you can find, um, 308 00:13:37,575 --> 00:13:39,965 galvanized conduit, things like that. 309 00:13:40,025 --> 00:13:42,925 And you can get a, a conduit bender to, 310 00:13:43,145 --> 00:13:45,445 to make your own greenhouses relatively 311 00:13:45,445 --> 00:13:47,005 inexpensively these days. 312 00:13:47,705 --> 00:13:51,845 Um, but the way my first greenhouse here, 313 00:13:52,005 --> 00:13:56,885 I believe I found a, a old pile of used PVC 314 00:13:57,585 --> 00:13:59,245 at somebody's in somebody's yard, 315 00:13:59,255 --> 00:14:00,485 asked them if they were using it 316 00:14:00,625 --> 00:14:02,925 and made it a quick PVC hoop. 317 00:14:04,525 --> 00:14:07,905 And it was the following year where I had actually had time 318 00:14:08,005 --> 00:14:11,145 to fell a tree and mill it and, and build a greenhouse. 319 00:14:11,665 --> 00:14:15,545 - I like this idea of not only upcycling your materials in 320 00:14:15,545 --> 00:14:16,625 the short term, because 321 00:14:16,625 --> 00:14:19,985 that way you can feel a lot easier about, um, 322 00:14:20,345 --> 00:14:22,665 building a temporary greenhouse immediately. 323 00:14:23,125 --> 00:14:24,785 And then, and then as you're able 324 00:14:24,785 --> 00:14:28,705 to collect the higher quality, um, materials, do 325 00:14:28,705 --> 00:14:29,985 that the next season or, 326 00:14:30,005 --> 00:14:32,225 or further on, um, if you're, 327 00:14:32,225 --> 00:14:35,305 if you're gonna do something short term, um, it's great 328 00:14:35,305 --> 00:14:38,065 to be able to, to get things from, from neighbors or, 329 00:14:38,165 --> 00:14:41,465 or shared online so that you don't have to spend that money 330 00:14:41,645 --> 00:14:44,305 and, uh, you know, and also create new plastic, right? 331 00:14:44,495 --> 00:14:45,785 - Yeah. And absolutely. 332 00:14:45,785 --> 00:14:47,625 And maybe you don't need a greenhouse the first year. 333 00:14:47,745 --> 00:14:49,545 I mean, I did 'cause I was hiding plants, 334 00:14:49,685 --> 00:14:52,245 but, um, if you don't use a greenhouse, 335 00:14:52,305 --> 00:14:53,925 you start your plants a little bit later, 336 00:14:53,945 --> 00:14:55,885 it gives you extra time to prepare your, 337 00:14:55,885 --> 00:14:57,005 your outdoor garden. 338 00:14:57,825 --> 00:14:59,565 And, and then you plant that and, 339 00:14:59,705 --> 00:15:01,845 and you have a crop that you can use towards 340 00:15:02,365 --> 00:15:04,485 building a greenhouse the, the following year. 341 00:15:05,005 --> 00:15:08,125 I mean, uh, I, I, I can give this advice. 342 00:15:08,125 --> 00:15:11,645 It hasn't always been advice I've taken myself . 343 00:15:11,665 --> 00:15:13,285 Um, but to, to bite off 344 00:15:13,515 --> 00:15:17,685 what you can realistically chew based on your, your budget 345 00:15:17,785 --> 00:15:19,565 and your, your time, et cetera. 346 00:15:19,645 --> 00:15:23,245 I mean, I, I have the bad habit of jumping out 347 00:15:23,245 --> 00:15:25,805 of the airplane and then imagining I can sew the parachute 348 00:15:25,805 --> 00:15:27,245 before I hit the ground . 349 00:15:27,665 --> 00:15:30,805 But, um, I, I've, I can't say 350 00:15:30,805 --> 00:15:32,165 that it's always worked that well, 351 00:15:32,445 --> 00:15:34,205 - Well, you know, that I think that is one 352 00:15:34,205 --> 00:15:37,325 of the challenges for those of us who are like, you know, 353 00:15:37,615 --> 00:15:39,405 optimistic, visionary type folks 354 00:15:39,405 --> 00:15:40,965 because, um, we, 355 00:15:40,985 --> 00:15:42,725 we we're always biting off more than we can 356 00:15:42,755 --> 00:15:44,045 chew . Yeah. 357 00:15:44,275 --> 00:15:46,245 - Yeah. It, it all looks so good. Yeah. 358 00:15:47,025 --> 00:15:49,445 - So, so let's talk about the, the real star 359 00:15:49,445 --> 00:15:50,645 of the farm, your soil. 360 00:15:50,945 --> 00:15:53,045 So, mm-Hmm. , um, if I understand the, 361 00:15:53,105 --> 00:15:55,685 the story, um, when you got to the farm, 362 00:15:55,905 --> 00:15:58,805 it had not actually, I mean, it wasn't even really a farm. 363 00:15:58,865 --> 00:16:01,085 It was, it was a parcel and, and the, 364 00:16:01,085 --> 00:16:04,485 and the soil had not been cared for in a long time. 365 00:16:04,985 --> 00:16:06,525 Um, you know, most of us imagine 366 00:16:06,635 --> 00:16:10,045 that the soil in Humboldt County is like, you know, infused 367 00:16:10,075 --> 00:16:12,525 with magic and like good all by itself. 368 00:16:13,145 --> 00:16:16,125 Was, was your soil already good to go when you arrived? 369 00:16:16,345 --> 00:16:17,925 Or did you know immediately 370 00:16:17,925 --> 00:16:19,445 that you needed to do soil building? 371 00:16:20,675 --> 00:16:22,295 - Um, it's actually a combination 372 00:16:22,405 --> 00:16:25,575 because generally the, the soil in Humboldt County 373 00:16:25,575 --> 00:16:30,375 and around here, I is a very thin clay soil as, 374 00:16:30,475 --> 00:16:31,975 as far as the top soil goes. 375 00:16:32,075 --> 00:16:35,975 And, and here we have a vein of, 376 00:16:36,115 --> 00:16:40,495 of really quality soil in terms of, of the soil structure. 377 00:16:41,275 --> 00:16:45,135 Um, the, the place we are is relatively flat and, 378 00:16:45,435 --> 00:16:47,895 and it has a vein of alluvial soil where, 379 00:16:47,945 --> 00:16:50,495 where two creeks had come back and forth across 380 00:16:50,515 --> 00:16:51,815 and deposited some soil. 381 00:16:51,955 --> 00:16:56,695 So, so it has a, a slightly sandy loam 382 00:16:57,265 --> 00:16:59,855 strip through part of the, the flat area here. 383 00:17:00,405 --> 00:17:03,455 That being said, it was covered in brush 384 00:17:03,795 --> 00:17:05,495 and was very acidic, 385 00:17:06,115 --> 00:17:09,545 and, um, it, it needed a lot of work. 386 00:17:10,325 --> 00:17:14,665 Um, so the first order of business definitely was testing 387 00:17:14,815 --> 00:17:18,865 that and, uh, adjusting the, the pH to, 388 00:17:18,885 --> 00:17:21,505 to bring it back to, to neutral. 389 00:17:22,325 --> 00:17:25,225 Um, and then as we expanded the farm, 390 00:17:25,245 --> 00:17:29,105 we reached out into more of, of the clay pore soil areas 391 00:17:29,285 --> 00:17:32,985 of the farm and, and started working on those soils. 392 00:17:33,485 --> 00:17:36,905 - So as you, um, you know, once you got the pH back 393 00:17:36,905 --> 00:17:40,385 to neutral from all the, all the acidity Mm-Hmm. 394 00:17:40,425 --> 00:17:42,345 , um, why don't you, uh, kind of illustrate 395 00:17:42,345 --> 00:17:44,905 for us a couple of the processes that you did 396 00:17:44,965 --> 00:17:47,265 to like build fertility into the soil? 397 00:17:47,725 --> 00:17:51,885 Um, because, you know, as we know, it takes more than just, 398 00:17:52,105 --> 00:17:57,085 um, you know, a good pH the, the soil we want it, um, uh, 399 00:17:57,305 --> 00:17:59,325 imbued with, with, with microbes 400 00:17:59,325 --> 00:18:01,405 and beneficial bacteria and fungi. 401 00:18:01,425 --> 00:18:02,645 And, and I'm sure 402 00:18:02,645 --> 00:18:05,685 that you were probably excited about that part of it. 403 00:18:05,845 --> 00:18:07,965 'cause because I mean, it's my favorite part 404 00:18:08,085 --> 00:18:09,165 'cause you get to do a whole bunch 405 00:18:09,165 --> 00:18:11,205 of really cool living projects, you know? 406 00:18:11,355 --> 00:18:13,605 Yeah. So, so why don't, why don't, why don't you just kind 407 00:18:13,605 --> 00:18:16,845 of like, uh, go through some of the, the projects like that, 408 00:18:16,845 --> 00:18:19,845 that you did, um, to just increase the, 409 00:18:20,065 --> 00:18:21,765 the life force in the soil? 410 00:18:22,235 --> 00:18:23,725 - Yeah, absolutely. 411 00:18:23,965 --> 00:18:27,525 I mean, I was relatively lucky in that generally, 412 00:18:28,305 --> 00:18:30,845 unless a soil is really bare, you, 413 00:18:31,105 --> 00:18:32,645 you have a lot of life force in it. 414 00:18:32,785 --> 00:18:36,605 We, we, we have a forest soil here, so it, 415 00:18:36,665 --> 00:18:38,005 it is infused with life. 416 00:18:38,145 --> 00:18:41,445 The, the, the challenge here in humble 417 00:18:41,585 --> 00:18:46,405 and in similar Mediterranean climates is that it gets so dry 418 00:18:46,405 --> 00:18:49,725 during the summer that it, it, it's kind 419 00:18:49,725 --> 00:18:52,845 of like the winter would be if you were in Michigan 420 00:18:52,945 --> 00:18:55,885 or something where the, the, the season that, 421 00:18:56,555 --> 00:18:59,805 that the life kind of gets put on hold in, in 422 00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:03,525 that most active layer of the soil here is in the summer 423 00:19:03,525 --> 00:19:04,765 because it dries out. 424 00:19:05,465 --> 00:19:08,285 Um, so a big part of that for me was 425 00:19:08,895 --> 00:19:13,685 developing the organic matter so that it could hold moisture 426 00:19:14,265 --> 00:19:16,205 and, and there could be life there 427 00:19:16,205 --> 00:19:17,685 throughout, throughout the season. 428 00:19:18,345 --> 00:19:22,725 So, yeah, a a big part of it was, was building a, 429 00:19:22,925 --> 00:19:24,925 a stable organic matter in the soil. 430 00:19:25,505 --> 00:19:30,245 And, and stable organic matter is very different than act 431 00:19:30,245 --> 00:19:32,045 of breaking down organic matter, both 432 00:19:32,045 --> 00:19:33,165 of which you need the act 433 00:19:33,165 --> 00:19:35,245 of breaking down organic matter is the food 434 00:19:35,245 --> 00:19:38,245 for the biology in the soil, the stable organic matter. 435 00:19:39,205 --> 00:19:43,735 I kind of think of as the, um, the housing . 436 00:19:44,355 --> 00:19:47,855 It, it's, it's the buffer, it's the well that, that you, 437 00:19:47,925 --> 00:19:49,335 your plants can draw from. 438 00:19:49,335 --> 00:19:51,095 Mm-Hmm. and, and the place, the, 439 00:19:51,095 --> 00:19:52,775 the pantry, if you will. 440 00:19:53,235 --> 00:19:55,895 So that is a relatively slow process. 441 00:19:56,075 --> 00:19:58,975 One of the early ways I started putting stable organic 442 00:19:58,975 --> 00:20:00,135 matter into the soil, 443 00:20:00,195 --> 00:20:02,415 and this is when I had a much smaller garden. 444 00:20:02,755 --> 00:20:06,015 The farm didn't come until, until later, was, 445 00:20:06,235 --> 00:20:07,255 was through biochar. 446 00:20:07,375 --> 00:20:09,975 I was doing a lot of, of burning here on the property 447 00:20:09,975 --> 00:20:13,935 and learning how to, a, as I did, um, fire safety work 448 00:20:13,935 --> 00:20:17,295 and thinning in the forest, learning how to make burn piles, 449 00:20:17,875 --> 00:20:21,655 um, in a way that preserved a lot of the charcoal, then 450 00:20:22,365 --> 00:20:24,935 soaking that in like a worm, casting tea, 451 00:20:25,555 --> 00:20:27,055 and then putting that in the soil. 452 00:20:27,115 --> 00:20:30,655 So then you have this, this repository, uh, of, uh, 453 00:20:30,975 --> 00:20:33,655 moisture holding and nutrient holding within the soil. 454 00:20:34,515 --> 00:20:39,175 And early on I was, um, managing the soil with, 455 00:20:39,355 --> 00:20:42,575 uh, a biointensive style rather than a no-till style. 456 00:20:42,575 --> 00:20:45,455 That's where you like double dig everything all the time, 457 00:20:45,985 --> 00:20:48,125 which was incredibly tiring. 458 00:20:48,465 --> 00:20:50,365 But it also really allowed me to, 459 00:20:50,945 --> 00:20:54,365 to build up organic matter very, very deep in the soil. 460 00:20:55,225 --> 00:20:57,085 Um, I hadn't heard of no-till yet. 461 00:20:57,205 --> 00:20:59,365 I was, I was really excited when I discovered 462 00:20:59,365 --> 00:21:00,845 that about a decade later, 463 00:21:01,245 --> 00:21:03,245 - , you're like, oh, I'm already doing that. I'm 464 00:21:03,245 --> 00:21:05,525 - Like, I, I'm, I, I don't have 465 00:21:05,525 --> 00:21:07,245 to dig everything every year. 466 00:21:07,865 --> 00:21:09,965 And, you know, at that point I was, I was digging 467 00:21:09,965 --> 00:21:13,165 with a shovel and a fork to be able to do the same kind 468 00:21:13,165 --> 00:21:16,965 of a thing of like keeping soil structure while aerating, 469 00:21:17,705 --> 00:21:18,965 um, and, 470 00:21:19,025 --> 00:21:21,405 and discovering techniques to be able to do that without 471 00:21:21,405 --> 00:21:24,085 as much work was, was mind blowing to me. 472 00:21:24,445 --> 00:21:27,085 - I didn't understand it when you first, uh, suggested 473 00:21:27,085 --> 00:21:30,045 that idea, now that I do, that must have been a really 474 00:21:31,005 --> 00:21:34,925 fabulous moment when you, when you read a, you know, 475 00:21:35,045 --> 00:21:37,245 a defense of not double digging 476 00:21:37,585 --> 00:21:40,845 and realizing that, that perhaps it was time for 477 00:21:40,845 --> 00:21:41,965 that to end all that. 478 00:21:41,965 --> 00:21:44,125 And that's particularly backbreaking work. 479 00:21:44,225 --> 00:21:47,165 You must have felt Oh, yeah. Felt like, oh, I'm free. You 480 00:21:47,165 --> 00:21:48,165 - Know? 481 00:21:48,165 --> 00:21:50,005 Yeah. Well, I, it, it was amazing. 482 00:21:50,205 --> 00:21:51,325 'cause it, it kind of came with, 483 00:21:51,345 --> 00:21:56,165 as we expanded into being a larger farm, um, Taylor, my, 484 00:21:56,185 --> 00:21:57,325 my wife and I, as, 485 00:21:57,325 --> 00:22:01,205 as we expanded into a larger area here on the property, the, 486 00:22:01,265 --> 00:22:03,085 the first thing we did was like, we, well, 487 00:22:03,085 --> 00:22:07,205 we obviously can't double dig an acre, so we're gonna, 488 00:22:07,265 --> 00:22:09,765 we have a tiller for our tractor, we're gonna till, 489 00:22:09,825 --> 00:22:12,125 and it just felt so wrong. 490 00:22:12,705 --> 00:22:16,805 And then we tilled and we were basically gardening an acre. 491 00:22:17,465 --> 00:22:19,525 And, and we had this awareness like this, 492 00:22:20,145 --> 00:22:21,485 we can't garden this much. 493 00:22:21,585 --> 00:22:23,365 We have to learn how to farm and, 494 00:22:23,385 --> 00:22:25,565 and farming is a different thing than gardening. 495 00:22:26,265 --> 00:22:29,205 And, and how can we farm in a way 496 00:22:29,205 --> 00:22:31,125 that feels like we're taking care of the soil? 497 00:22:31,265 --> 00:22:34,285 And, and we discovered various literature about it 498 00:22:34,285 --> 00:22:37,325 and discovered techniques to do that and, 499 00:22:37,385 --> 00:22:41,485 and become efficient at the same time as, as 500 00:22:42,045 --> 00:22:44,085 becoming better stewards of the, the soil. 501 00:22:44,435 --> 00:22:45,685 - This, this idea that, 502 00:22:45,715 --> 00:22:47,645 that farming is different than gardening. 503 00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:49,245 That's a very provocative statement. 504 00:22:49,585 --> 00:22:51,245 My, my best understanding of 505 00:22:51,245 --> 00:22:54,045 what you're saying there would be that with, with gardening, 506 00:22:54,265 --> 00:22:57,725 you're doing things that can be inefficient 507 00:22:57,725 --> 00:22:59,325 because you're not scaled. 508 00:22:59,385 --> 00:23:01,885 But when you're scaled to a farm, you have 509 00:23:01,885 --> 00:23:03,085 to be far more efficient. 510 00:23:03,145 --> 00:23:04,245 Is that what you mean by that? 511 00:23:04,875 --> 00:23:06,085 - Yeah, yeah, exactly. 512 00:23:06,305 --> 00:23:09,085 Um, if you're farming, um, you know, 513 00:23:09,085 --> 00:23:12,005 unfortunately you're interacting with, with a, 514 00:23:12,065 --> 00:23:14,605 an economic reality where, um, 515 00:23:15,905 --> 00:23:18,005 you can't lose money the way you can 516 00:23:18,005 --> 00:23:19,245 having a hobby, you know? 517 00:23:19,275 --> 00:23:22,485 Yeah. You can have a hobby where you spend $10 518 00:23:22,665 --> 00:23:25,645 to make a beautiful heirloom tomato for your kitchen. 519 00:23:26,385 --> 00:23:29,885 Um, that doesn't work if you're, if you're trying to, 520 00:23:29,945 --> 00:23:31,525 to make a living selling that tomato. 521 00:23:31,705 --> 00:23:35,125 So, um, that, that's kind of been the, 522 00:23:35,145 --> 00:23:36,365 the constant challenges. 523 00:23:36,425 --> 00:23:41,125 How, how do you scale in a way that you can provide food in 524 00:23:41,685 --> 00:23:43,965 a environmentally friendly way, in a way 525 00:23:43,965 --> 00:23:47,725 that leaves your land in a better state than you found it, 526 00:23:47,825 --> 00:23:50,365 and at the same time is economically viable. 527 00:23:51,225 --> 00:23:55,645 Um, and, and it is a kind of a constant push and pull 528 00:23:56,305 --> 00:23:58,405 and, and there's, there's no way to do it. 529 00:23:58,405 --> 00:24:02,245 Perfect. Uh, uh, we, we talk about being regenerative, 530 00:24:02,465 --> 00:24:05,005 but really when it comes to it, we're all 531 00:24:05,005 --> 00:24:08,205 of us striving towards this idea of being regenerative. 532 00:24:08,385 --> 00:24:12,045 Mm. And, and it, it's, it's not something that's easy. 533 00:24:12,145 --> 00:24:15,725 You, you can't, um, in, in permaculture, 534 00:24:15,785 --> 00:24:19,245 we talk about a closed loop system where, where the outputs 535 00:24:19,245 --> 00:24:21,805 of your farm become the inputs of your farm, 536 00:24:22,545 --> 00:24:24,845 and it's a self-sustaining ecosystem. 537 00:24:25,835 --> 00:24:29,445 Well, that, that's a lot harder when so much of the output 538 00:24:29,465 --> 00:24:32,125 of your farm is leaving your farm never 539 00:24:32,145 --> 00:24:33,485 to be returned. Hmm. 540 00:24:34,425 --> 00:24:37,845 - So, oh, so, so when you were, um, you were describing how, 541 00:24:38,065 --> 00:24:41,365 uh, you were, you were, um, double dig digging 542 00:24:41,775 --> 00:24:44,605 until you learned about no-till 543 00:24:44,955 --> 00:24:48,165 because, um, you know, while, while that's, while that's an, 544 00:24:48,185 --> 00:24:51,885 you know, an ancient process, it's, it's relatively new 545 00:24:51,905 --> 00:24:53,525 to trending again, I guess I'll say. 546 00:24:53,525 --> 00:24:55,365 Mm-Hmm. . Um, I can imagine 547 00:24:55,555 --> 00:24:59,205 that at the beginning also, you were probably doing things 548 00:24:59,325 --> 00:25:02,965 that, that we all know as regenerative farming, just 549 00:25:02,965 --> 00:25:04,765 because you had low resources. 550 00:25:04,965 --> 00:25:07,085 I I was talking with a guy, I never did get his name, 551 00:25:07,105 --> 00:25:10,965 but, um, at a, uh, at a golden tarp several years ago. 552 00:25:11,465 --> 00:25:13,365 And, uh, he said, he says, he says, oh, I, 553 00:25:13,395 --> 00:25:15,485 I've been regenerative farmer my whole life, 554 00:25:15,585 --> 00:25:17,725 but when I was young, we just called it being poor. 555 00:25:18,065 --> 00:25:19,845 Mm-Hmm, . Yeah. And, and because like, 556 00:25:19,845 --> 00:25:22,645 he was focused on using the materials 557 00:25:22,645 --> 00:25:26,085 that are on the property, um, and, and 558 00:25:26,085 --> 00:25:28,565 because he, he, he couldn't afford, you know, the, 559 00:25:28,585 --> 00:25:31,525 the fertilizers that you'd get from town in the same way, 560 00:25:31,525 --> 00:25:34,165 I want to ask you, like, you know, you, you described 561 00:25:34,425 --> 00:25:38,125 how you wanted to both increase the microbe life, 562 00:25:38,545 --> 00:25:41,365 but then also increase the, you know, 563 00:25:41,365 --> 00:25:42,445 what we're gonna call housing 564 00:25:42,585 --> 00:25:45,285 or structure that, um, that protects and, 565 00:25:45,305 --> 00:25:49,845 and gives, um, a place for those microbes to, to, 566 00:25:51,525 --> 00:25:52,965 I, I wanna use the word procreate, 567 00:25:52,965 --> 00:25:54,365 but that's not scientifically accurate, 568 00:25:54,365 --> 00:25:55,805 but make more, incubate them. 569 00:25:55,905 --> 00:25:58,685 Mm-Hmm. . And so what, what were some 570 00:25:58,705 --> 00:26:03,205 of the natural inputs that you found, um, you know, 571 00:26:03,745 --> 00:26:06,445 on the parcel or nearby that you could wildcraft 572 00:26:06,445 --> 00:26:08,365 and put to work in your soil building it? 573 00:26:09,515 --> 00:26:12,765 - Well, early on in building the soil, I didn't really have 574 00:26:13,665 --> 00:26:16,845 the awareness of, of wildcrafting inputs. 575 00:26:16,845 --> 00:26:21,205 So I think that kind of the, the Juda KNF kind 576 00:26:21,205 --> 00:26:24,925 of input, um, awareness came, came 577 00:26:24,925 --> 00:26:26,365 to us maybe 10 years ago. 578 00:26:26,985 --> 00:26:31,285 Um, early on, I, I had a lot of wood, a lot of wood chip. 579 00:26:31,905 --> 00:26:35,765 Uh, I wasn't doing Hugo building with, with large wood, 580 00:26:35,865 --> 00:26:39,245 partly because I, I had really nice soil 581 00:26:39,905 --> 00:26:43,845 and I didn't feel like I needed to, to put wood in the, 582 00:26:43,905 --> 00:26:45,965 the lower profile of it to make that work. 583 00:26:46,545 --> 00:26:48,125 But what, what I did have is a lot 584 00:26:48,125 --> 00:26:49,725 of wood chips for doing mulching. 585 00:26:50,385 --> 00:26:52,045 Um, and 586 00:26:52,885 --> 00:26:56,125 although I didn't have animals myself early on, 587 00:26:56,155 --> 00:26:59,205 besides, um, chickens for eggs, 588 00:26:59,225 --> 00:27:02,325 and that manure went back onto the farm, um, 589 00:27:02,845 --> 00:27:06,285 I did have friends and neighbors who had cows and horses 590 00:27:06,745 --> 00:27:07,925 and, and goats, 591 00:27:07,925 --> 00:27:10,925 and was able to put a lot of organic matter in the form of 592 00:27:11,505 --> 00:27:15,805 manure and wood chips from, from the area onto the soil. 593 00:27:16,265 --> 00:27:18,285 And I mean, that, that really is like, 594 00:27:18,305 --> 00:27:22,365 the input you want is, is organic matter, 595 00:27:22,575 --> 00:27:24,685 especially in a place like Humboldt. 596 00:27:24,685 --> 00:27:25,685 The flip side of, of 597 00:27:25,685 --> 00:27:27,325 what we were talking about earlier about the, 598 00:27:27,385 --> 00:27:30,685 the dry season being a time when, when microbes kind 599 00:27:30,685 --> 00:27:33,405 of go dormant, if, if the soil isn't kept moist 600 00:27:33,405 --> 00:27:35,165 and there's not good moisture holding capacity, 601 00:27:35,705 --> 00:27:40,205 the flip side of it is the wet season here is, is 602 00:27:40,945 --> 00:27:43,885 80 plus inches of rain during, during the years. 603 00:27:44,065 --> 00:27:48,325 So if you don't hold those nutrients, somehow 604 00:27:48,875 --> 00:27:52,085 they, they wash out all, all of the soluble nutrients. 605 00:27:52,085 --> 00:27:53,805 So some of the biggest issues 606 00:27:53,865 --> 00:27:56,285 for us over the years have always been like, how do we 607 00:27:56,865 --> 00:27:57,925 create nitrogen? 608 00:27:58,505 --> 00:28:02,045 How do we hold nitrogen? How do we find sulfur? 609 00:28:02,305 --> 00:28:03,605 How do we hold sulfur? 610 00:28:04,105 --> 00:28:07,925 Um, uh, and some of, of the micronutrients 611 00:28:07,925 --> 00:28:09,805 and minerals things that wash out 612 00:28:09,805 --> 00:28:11,725 of the soil here just aren't there 613 00:28:11,725 --> 00:28:14,205 unless you find ways to put them in and to hold them. 614 00:28:15,105 --> 00:28:18,845 Um, and the, the over the course of gardening here, 615 00:28:19,185 --> 00:28:22,365 the single largest way that we've found 616 00:28:22,665 --> 00:28:27,125 to build soil is, is through wintertime cover cropping. 617 00:28:27,705 --> 00:28:30,725 And, and it's, it, it just is incredible 618 00:28:30,865 --> 00:28:32,485 how much soil you can build, 619 00:28:33,235 --> 00:28:35,725 because the winter here when we're not able 620 00:28:35,725 --> 00:28:39,325 to grow crops is, is four to six months of the year. 621 00:28:40,025 --> 00:28:43,605 So you, you're actually growing a full crop during 622 00:28:43,605 --> 00:28:46,005 that wintertime season, entirely just 623 00:28:46,005 --> 00:28:47,285 to put back into the soil. 624 00:28:47,905 --> 00:28:50,845 And once you start doing the, the no-till version of it, 625 00:28:50,845 --> 00:28:54,525 you're, you're not just putting it back on the top, 626 00:28:54,665 --> 00:28:58,125 but all of the roots of those cover crops get to stay 627 00:28:58,125 --> 00:29:00,565 where they are in the pathways, in the soil 628 00:29:00,565 --> 00:29:01,565 that they've opened up. 629 00:29:01,675 --> 00:29:03,965 That becomes a porous structure of the soil. 630 00:29:05,025 --> 00:29:09,485 And the exodus of the roots help create kind of a, 631 00:29:10,325 --> 00:29:13,965 a glue that glues the soil structure together and, 632 00:29:14,025 --> 00:29:16,205 and then makes a, a porous environment. 633 00:29:16,305 --> 00:29:18,045 So if you take a cover crop 634 00:29:18,505 --> 00:29:21,725 and you lay the, the, the green matter on the top 635 00:29:22,225 --> 00:29:25,085 and let that decompose naturally into the top of the soil, 636 00:29:25,105 --> 00:29:27,965 and that the roots decompose down in the subsoil 637 00:29:28,065 --> 00:29:30,845 and in, in, in the soil deeper where they are, 638 00:29:31,505 --> 00:29:34,685 you really quickly build organic matter deep 639 00:29:34,715 --> 00:29:36,005 into the soil. That was 640 00:29:36,005 --> 00:29:38,485 - A beautiful explanation, Daniel. That was top notch 641 00:29:38,725 --> 00:29:39,725 - . 642 00:29:39,725 --> 00:29:42,445 Yeah. I mean, like the, the engine for all of it, right? 643 00:29:42,445 --> 00:29:45,045 The engine for organic matter is photosynthesis. 644 00:29:45,185 --> 00:29:47,565 And, and to, you need to take advantage 645 00:29:47,785 --> 00:29:49,765 of the photosynthesis potential 646 00:29:50,785 --> 00:29:53,445 on your garden soil all the time. 647 00:29:53,505 --> 00:29:54,565 And it's either you're, 648 00:29:54,565 --> 00:29:58,085 you're taking photosynthesis from another area in the form 649 00:29:58,185 --> 00:30:01,125 of straw or hay or wood chips, 650 00:30:01,185 --> 00:30:03,845 or even animal manure from animals that have eaten that 651 00:30:04,225 --> 00:30:09,085 and bringing it to you or your, or, and really not, 652 00:30:09,145 --> 00:30:12,285 or you are creating photosynthesis in place. 653 00:30:12,705 --> 00:30:15,925 And that the, the lovely thing about that is it's so simple. 654 00:30:16,115 --> 00:30:17,965 It's there. You're not wheelbarrowing it, 655 00:30:17,965 --> 00:30:19,085 you're not moving it around, 656 00:30:19,825 --> 00:30:23,445 and you can have it, um, be nitrogen fixing so that it, 657 00:30:23,585 --> 00:30:27,005 it also creates, um, creates fertility. 658 00:30:27,225 --> 00:30:30,245 - That's great. So, um, I wanna hit one more topic, 659 00:30:30,385 --> 00:30:31,925 or it's actually the same topic, 660 00:30:31,945 --> 00:30:33,085 but I wanna ask you one more question 661 00:30:33,085 --> 00:30:35,845 before we go to the first commercial, which is, um, 662 00:30:36,345 --> 00:30:37,405 you know, the, 663 00:30:37,715 --> 00:30:42,325 what the specific over winter cover crop is going to be, um, 664 00:30:42,465 --> 00:30:44,805 is gonna be different depending on what part 665 00:30:44,805 --> 00:30:46,005 of the country that we live in. 666 00:30:46,025 --> 00:30:48,445 So, so everybody's gonna have their own local plant 667 00:30:48,445 --> 00:30:49,685 that tends to work best for them. 668 00:30:50,115 --> 00:30:54,045 What I'm curious to hear you speak to is, is number one, um, 669 00:30:54,465 --> 00:30:58,765 did you choose one cover crop and go solely with that ever? 670 00:30:58,945 --> 00:31:02,125 Or did you pick a few different cover crops and, 671 00:31:02,265 --> 00:31:04,245 and plant them together for variety? 672 00:31:04,785 --> 00:31:09,125 And two, how does that crop cover crop fit into 673 00:31:09,995 --> 00:31:12,885 like, all of the plants that are on your property? 674 00:31:12,945 --> 00:31:14,485 So on your property, I'm assuming 675 00:31:14,485 --> 00:31:17,165 that you're gonna have these, these seasonal cover crops, 676 00:31:17,265 --> 00:31:21,165 but then also you're gonna have, um, uh, uh, the food 677 00:31:21,165 --> 00:31:22,565 that you're grow growing for market, 678 00:31:22,745 --> 00:31:25,845 and then you've got the cannabis probably in the greenhouse 679 00:31:25,905 --> 00:31:28,325 and outside of it, and then you've got your ornamentals 680 00:31:28,325 --> 00:31:30,565 that you just grow around your property for fun. 681 00:31:30,945 --> 00:31:32,885 We, we all know as regenerative farmers 682 00:31:32,885 --> 00:31:34,645 that these plants are all interacting 683 00:31:34,645 --> 00:31:37,285 with each other at a biological level, even, 684 00:31:37,285 --> 00:31:39,485 even if they're not planted right next to each other. 685 00:31:39,785 --> 00:31:42,245 I'd like to kind of like, hear, hear about like, 686 00:31:42,245 --> 00:31:45,165 what was the melody for the different types of plants 687 00:31:45,165 --> 00:31:48,445 that you chose for the farm, um, as you, as you settled in 688 00:31:48,445 --> 00:31:49,805 and figured out what was gonna be best 689 00:31:49,865 --> 00:31:51,285 for the farm? Mm-Hmm. 690 00:31:51,325 --> 00:31:55,805 - , um, I mean, we have a, a number 691 00:31:55,865 --> 00:31:59,525 of different management strategies that we have developed 692 00:31:59,545 --> 00:32:00,685 and are developing 693 00:32:00,705 --> 00:32:03,965 and will, will change over time for, for different goals. 694 00:32:04,585 --> 00:32:08,525 Um, how we manage beds for cannabis is very different than 695 00:32:08,525 --> 00:32:10,125 how we manage beds for lettuce. 696 00:32:10,305 --> 00:32:12,045 And, you know, the big factors are 697 00:32:12,345 --> 00:32:13,405 the crop that you're growing. 698 00:32:13,905 --> 00:32:15,125 Is it a quick turnaround? 699 00:32:15,755 --> 00:32:19,525 Does it suffer from, from competition from weeds, 700 00:32:19,625 --> 00:32:21,405 or does it do fine with that? 701 00:32:22,105 --> 00:32:25,165 And, and again, like we you just said, how does it interact 702 00:32:25,165 --> 00:32:26,205 with the plants around it? 703 00:32:26,865 --> 00:32:29,685 So, um, in our perennial gardens, 704 00:32:29,945 --> 00:32:31,965 we just do a lot of deep mulch. 705 00:32:31,965 --> 00:32:35,125 We have a variety of plants, both for, for beauty 706 00:32:35,155 --> 00:32:37,765 that we like, for medicinal use for ourselves, 707 00:32:38,105 --> 00:32:39,965 for beneficial insects. 708 00:32:40,545 --> 00:32:44,365 Um, and then the, the cannabis is kind of somewhere in 709 00:32:44,365 --> 00:32:46,925 between a perennial garden and an annual garden. 710 00:32:47,325 --> 00:32:49,085 Cannabis is such a long lived annual, it, 711 00:32:49,185 --> 00:32:51,245 it really plays well with perennials. 712 00:32:51,825 --> 00:32:55,525 Um, and, and the way we manage that tends to be, uh, an in 713 00:32:55,525 --> 00:32:58,005 between where we, we grow, grow a cover crop, 714 00:32:58,185 --> 00:33:01,525 but we manage it through crimping and mulch. 715 00:33:01,825 --> 00:33:05,565 And, and the edge of the cannabis beds has, has a, 716 00:33:05,765 --> 00:33:07,525 a perennial garden of sorts. 717 00:33:07,945 --> 00:33:12,445 And, and that garden tends to entirely be beneficials, um, 718 00:33:12,585 --> 00:33:15,885 for insects that are predator insects for cannabis 719 00:33:16,185 --> 00:33:18,685 or trap crops or, or things like that. 720 00:33:19,505 --> 00:33:22,885 Um, and then the annual vegetable production de, 721 00:33:22,885 --> 00:33:25,165 depending on the crop that's gonna be in an area, 722 00:33:25,195 --> 00:33:27,725 gets a different management technique and, 723 00:33:27,905 --> 00:33:31,165 and needs longer to transition from the wintertime cover 724 00:33:31,165 --> 00:33:33,685 crop to being a, a very clean 725 00:33:34,535 --> 00:33:38,965 blank bear slate bed that we could use cedars or, 726 00:33:39,105 --> 00:33:40,845 or transplanting tools on. 727 00:33:41,505 --> 00:33:44,005 And what I've really found that I like in terms 728 00:33:44,005 --> 00:33:46,445 of cover crop is doing a cover crop mix, 729 00:33:46,785 --> 00:33:49,525 and you can find a mix that that works for your environment 730 00:33:49,525 --> 00:33:50,565 and works for your needs. 731 00:33:50,705 --> 00:33:53,645 But, but we actually buy a pre-mixed cover crop 732 00:33:54,115 --> 00:33:58,245 that is a combination of, of, uh, fava, uh, 733 00:33:58,845 --> 00:34:01,165 vetch peas and oats. 734 00:34:01,785 --> 00:34:03,725 And, and what I like about that is, 735 00:34:04,345 --> 00:34:08,085 is there's an inherent intelligence to, to plants 736 00:34:08,145 --> 00:34:11,925 and their interaction with their environment and, 737 00:34:12,105 --> 00:34:16,995 and, um, you find different expressions of 738 00:34:16,995 --> 00:34:20,155 what germinates and what thrives in different beds. 739 00:34:20,155 --> 00:34:22,275 In beds that tend to be low in nitrogen 740 00:34:22,725 --> 00:34:25,515 after a year of growing the crop you've had on it. 741 00:34:25,655 --> 00:34:28,355 The, the legumes in that cover crop mix really thrive 742 00:34:29,095 --> 00:34:31,195 in beds that have a lot of nitrogen. 743 00:34:32,055 --> 00:34:36,755 The, the grass really thrives and it's able to grow a lot 744 00:34:37,095 --> 00:34:39,915 before the heaviness of the winter rains comes and, 745 00:34:40,015 --> 00:34:43,235 and hold a lot of that nutrient in, its in its structure 746 00:34:43,855 --> 00:34:47,235 versus the legumes, which are building, building nutrient 747 00:34:47,235 --> 00:34:50,915 through, um, its relationship in, in its roots. 748 00:34:51,695 --> 00:34:56,155 Um, so, so having a mix of cover crop really helps 749 00:34:56,815 --> 00:34:59,475 it thrive in whichever environment you put it in. 750 00:34:59,495 --> 00:35:00,875 And that changes year to year. 751 00:35:00,905 --> 00:35:02,835 It's not something I've been able to wrap my head 752 00:35:02,835 --> 00:35:04,955 around predicting what will do well in which 753 00:35:05,065 --> 00:35:06,195 area at which time. 754 00:35:07,185 --> 00:35:10,925 Um, the one aspect we're starting to discover in, 755 00:35:11,385 --> 00:35:14,085 in the cannabis zones, especially where we use crimping 756 00:35:14,085 --> 00:35:18,285 as a technique to integrate cover crop, is that, 757 00:35:18,835 --> 00:35:21,725 that there's a benefit if you're, if you're using crimping 758 00:35:21,725 --> 00:35:23,605 as a technique to having cover crops 759 00:35:23,635 --> 00:35:26,285 that come into flour at the same time. 760 00:35:27,365 --> 00:35:32,165 'cause um, crimping as a technique really depends on timing. 761 00:35:32,745 --> 00:35:35,885 If, if you crimp while a plant is in its most vigorous 762 00:35:35,885 --> 00:35:38,645 growth time, it's going to grow right through that 763 00:35:39,675 --> 00:35:41,605 push its way through the mulch you put on top 764 00:35:41,605 --> 00:35:42,805 of it and continue growing. 765 00:35:43,185 --> 00:35:46,045 Versus if you cover crop, um, 766 00:35:46,335 --> 00:35:48,005 right when a plant's putting all 767 00:35:48,005 --> 00:35:49,645 of its energy into flowering 768 00:35:50,065 --> 00:35:54,325 but hasn't produced seeds yet, it, it tends to actually be 769 00:35:54,865 --> 00:35:56,925 killed by the crimping technique 770 00:35:57,105 --> 00:35:59,565 and start its decomposition process. 771 00:36:00,265 --> 00:36:02,685 And so the cover crop mix we've been using, 772 00:36:02,685 --> 00:36:07,565 which we've still used this season, the, the 773 00:36:08,515 --> 00:36:12,885 oats flour at a later time, then, then the vetch 774 00:36:13,105 --> 00:36:16,085 and the, um, the fava beans, 775 00:36:16,465 --> 00:36:18,125 so the oats continue to grow. 776 00:36:18,305 --> 00:36:21,965 Or if I were to wait for the oats to flower, the, the fava 777 00:36:21,965 --> 00:36:23,605 and the vetch will have already seeded, 778 00:36:24,105 --> 00:36:26,885 and that could be a benefit. 779 00:36:27,185 --> 00:36:28,245 And, and I know farmers 780 00:36:28,345 --> 00:36:32,325 who are effectively using already seeded cover crop 781 00:36:33,505 --> 00:36:35,485 and dry farming somewhat. 782 00:36:35,485 --> 00:36:38,525 So they, if, if you are aren't overhead watering, 783 00:36:38,525 --> 00:36:40,605 say if you have your irrigation under 784 00:36:41,495 --> 00:36:43,565 where you crimp your cover crop so that 785 00:36:43,565 --> 00:36:46,685 after you do your cover crop, it, it, it kind of dries out 786 00:36:46,685 --> 00:36:50,005 and becomes mulch, you can have a fully seeded cover crop, 787 00:36:50,785 --> 00:36:52,445 let it dry out and become mulch, 788 00:36:52,675 --> 00:36:55,285 your irrigation lines are under it. 789 00:36:55,705 --> 00:36:58,805 And then when you get fall rains, it causes that 790 00:36:58,805 --> 00:36:59,805 to germinate again 791 00:36:59,805 --> 00:37:01,965 and you're already planted in cover crop. Ooh, 792 00:37:01,965 --> 00:37:02,965 - That's nice. 793 00:37:03,435 --> 00:37:05,325 - Yeah. And that's, that's theoretical. 794 00:37:05,515 --> 00:37:06,605 I've heard, um, some, 795 00:37:06,635 --> 00:37:08,725 some really amazing farmers talk about that. 796 00:37:09,385 --> 00:37:11,805 Um, but I have not tried that. You really 797 00:37:11,805 --> 00:37:12,805 - Gotta nail that. 798 00:37:12,805 --> 00:37:13,485 You really gotta nail that timing. 799 00:37:13,665 --> 00:37:15,245 - You just gotta nail that, you know? Yeah. 800 00:37:15,265 --> 00:37:19,205 And, and, and getting it to rese and, and all of that. 801 00:37:19,315 --> 00:37:21,845 It's something I'd love to experiment with at some point, 802 00:37:21,985 --> 00:37:24,045 but, but haven't gotten to yet as it is. 803 00:37:24,545 --> 00:37:28,805 I'm now looking for an earlier flowering, 804 00:37:29,425 --> 00:37:34,245 um, grain grass that I can mix in with, with my, my batch 805 00:37:34,305 --> 00:37:35,605 and, and my fava beans 806 00:37:35,665 --> 00:37:38,085 to have them at least come into fruition at the same time 807 00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:39,525 for effective crimping. 808 00:37:39,665 --> 00:37:42,565 - You know, one thing that is underlying this, this, um, 809 00:37:42,875 --> 00:37:46,205 this philosophy that you just shared is that when you're, 810 00:37:46,205 --> 00:37:49,445 when you're just establishing your farm is regenerative, 811 00:37:49,445 --> 00:37:50,925 whether or not you just got the parcel, 812 00:37:51,225 --> 00:37:53,565 or if you're switching from petroleum farming 813 00:37:53,625 --> 00:37:57,325 to regenerative farming, um, sometimes the first few years 814 00:37:57,385 --> 00:37:59,925 as you're getting your legs under you, it's, it's okay 815 00:38:00,345 --> 00:38:04,165 to use the same kind of like off the shelf, like, uh, 816 00:38:04,165 --> 00:38:05,205 cover crop mixes 817 00:38:05,205 --> 00:38:07,765 and other, other things where, where you don't have 818 00:38:07,765 --> 00:38:08,925 to reinvent the wheel. 819 00:38:09,315 --> 00:38:10,405 Like you don't Oh, 820 00:38:10,525 --> 00:38:11,525 - Absolutely. 821 00:38:11,525 --> 00:38:13,485 - You don't have to be inventing all new farming 822 00:38:13,485 --> 00:38:15,005 techniques your first couple years. 823 00:38:15,005 --> 00:38:19,165 There's reasons why, um, these, some of these seed mixes 824 00:38:19,185 --> 00:38:21,045 and, and other tools are, you know, 825 00:38:21,185 --> 00:38:22,485 are things that everybody uses. 826 00:38:22,705 --> 00:38:25,005 And, and so just, you know, go ahead 827 00:38:25,005 --> 00:38:26,965 and follow the crowd on some of this stuff 828 00:38:27,015 --> 00:38:28,245 until you get established 829 00:38:28,305 --> 00:38:30,885 and you can really, uh, fine tune it 830 00:38:30,885 --> 00:38:32,485 for your own particular parcel. 831 00:38:33,115 --> 00:38:34,485 - Well, and it, and it goes back to 832 00:38:34,485 --> 00:38:36,050 that biting off more than you can chew. 833 00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:38,845 I mean, you're right, I, I often still use cover crop mixes 834 00:38:38,845 --> 00:38:42,885 because I don't have the time to wrap my head 835 00:38:42,885 --> 00:38:45,165 around every aspect of the farm. 836 00:38:45,745 --> 00:38:47,885 And farmers are doing it, especially now. 837 00:38:47,885 --> 00:38:51,565 There's so many small farms out there, there, there is 838 00:38:52,505 --> 00:38:54,485 so much thought being put into this. 839 00:38:54,665 --> 00:38:57,045 And therefore there are a lot of products out there 840 00:38:57,355 --> 00:38:59,525 that are made by farmers with the thought 841 00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:01,085 of, of helping farmers. 842 00:39:01,185 --> 00:39:03,925 And especially like in the tool realm and, 843 00:39:03,945 --> 00:39:06,825 and things like that, there's a lot available. 844 00:39:07,045 --> 00:39:08,385 You don't need to do it all yourself. 845 00:39:09,165 --> 00:39:10,985 You couldn't, even if you tried. 846 00:39:11,565 --> 00:39:15,545 And, and part of learning to farm was learning to focus on 847 00:39:15,695 --> 00:39:17,745 what we're good at and, 848 00:39:18,045 --> 00:39:20,185 and to let other people do what they're good at 849 00:39:20,365 --> 00:39:21,745 and be collaborative about it. 850 00:39:22,075 --> 00:39:24,745 - Right on. That's good. Those are good words of advice. So. 851 00:39:24,815 --> 00:39:27,225 Alright, so let's take a short break and be right back. 852 00:39:27,325 --> 00:39:28,865 You're listening to Shaping Fire 853 00:39:28,925 --> 00:39:31,985 and my guest today is Regenerative farmer Daniel Stein. 854 00:39:32,245 --> 00:39:33,745 And, you know, without these advertisers 855 00:39:33,745 --> 00:39:35,025 shaping fire would not happen. 856 00:39:35,165 --> 00:39:36,225 So please support them 857 00:39:36,225 --> 00:39:38,385 and let them know you heard them on shaping fire 858 00:39:41,495 --> 00:39:44,145 Revenue is tight for cannabis businesses right now. 859 00:39:44,155 --> 00:39:45,385 There is no question about it. 860 00:39:45,645 --> 00:39:48,545 And when revenue tightens, businesses need 861 00:39:48,545 --> 00:39:51,465 to spend smarter on advertising, instead 862 00:39:51,465 --> 00:39:54,225 of throwing obscene money at hanging your company's logo 863 00:39:54,295 --> 00:39:56,185 from the rafters at your next convention, 864 00:39:56,495 --> 00:39:59,345 perhaps consider placing commercials on shaping fire. 865 00:40:00,125 --> 00:40:01,905 And if you are a very small business, 866 00:40:02,115 --> 00:40:03,585 there is simply no better bang 867 00:40:03,585 --> 00:40:05,905 for your buck than commercials on shaping fire, 868 00:40:06,435 --> 00:40:07,945 especially if your products are 869 00:40:07,945 --> 00:40:09,745 for regeneratively minded cultivators. 870 00:40:11,265 --> 00:40:13,145 Advertising on this show allows us time 871 00:40:13,165 --> 00:40:14,865 to talk about your product, service, 872 00:40:15,005 --> 00:40:17,585 or brand in a way that really lets people know 873 00:40:17,585 --> 00:40:19,345 what sets your company apart from the others. 874 00:40:20,375 --> 00:40:22,345 Bold people who own companies know 875 00:40:22,345 --> 00:40:23,665 that getting into relationship 876 00:40:23,665 --> 00:40:25,265 with their customers is essential. 877 00:40:25,815 --> 00:40:27,065 That is what we offer. 878 00:40:27,925 --> 00:40:29,185 We will explain your service 879 00:40:29,325 --> 00:40:31,785 or product, what sets it apart as desirable, 880 00:40:32,205 --> 00:40:34,465 and help our audience get in contact with you. 881 00:40:34,895 --> 00:40:36,145 It's pretty simple really. 882 00:40:36,825 --> 00:40:38,905 Advertising does not have to be all whizzbang smoke 883 00:40:38,905 --> 00:40:40,505 and mirrors nowadays. 884 00:40:40,625 --> 00:40:43,465 I find that people prefer just to be spoken to calmly, 885 00:40:44,225 --> 00:40:46,105 accurately, and with good intentions. 886 00:40:46,805 --> 00:40:48,985 If you wanna make your own commercial spot, you can do 887 00:40:48,985 --> 00:40:51,825 that too with a commercial on shaping fire. 888 00:40:52,005 --> 00:40:53,705 You'll reach your customers in the privacy 889 00:40:53,845 --> 00:40:55,305 of their headphones right now 890 00:40:55,725 --> 00:40:57,705 and we'll continue to reach new listeners 891 00:40:57,725 --> 00:40:59,585 as they explore the shaping Fire Back catalog 892 00:40:59,645 --> 00:41:00,745 of episodes again 893 00:41:00,925 --> 00:41:02,305 and again for years, 894 00:41:03,625 --> 00:41:06,145 a spot on shaping fire costs less than a 895 00:41:06,145 --> 00:41:07,185 postcard per person. 896 00:41:07,525 --> 00:41:09,465 And the shaping fire audience is full 897 00:41:09,465 --> 00:41:12,265 of smart cannabis enthusiasts, cultivators, 898 00:41:12,365 --> 00:41:14,625 and entrepreneurs who are always curious to learn. 899 00:41:15,365 --> 00:41:16,745 And right now in the new year, 900 00:41:17,085 --> 00:41:19,425 we are booking the few open spots we have for the rest 901 00:41:19,425 --> 00:41:20,465 of 2024. 902 00:41:21,325 --> 00:41:23,505 I'd love for you to be one of our new advertisers, 903 00:41:24,405 --> 00:41:25,465 do yourself a solid 904 00:41:25,685 --> 00:41:27,985 and contact us today for rates on podcast 905 00:41:28,205 --> 00:41:29,705 and Instagram advertising. 906 00:41:30,355 --> 00:41:33,285 Email hotspot@shapingfire.com 907 00:41:33,465 --> 00:41:38,145 to find out more Fish poop. 908 00:41:38,145 --> 00:41:40,625 Brand fertilizer is an all natural fish poop 909 00:41:40,985 --> 00:41:42,145 concentrate with nothing added. 910 00:41:42,775 --> 00:41:45,145 Real fish poop is extraordinarily complex. 911 00:41:45,805 --> 00:41:48,145 Not only are you adding the nitrogen, phosphorus, 912 00:41:48,145 --> 00:41:49,585 and potassium, your plants need 913 00:41:49,585 --> 00:41:52,345 to build mass transport nutrients in flavor. 914 00:41:52,925 --> 00:41:56,145 But fish waste is also packed with biological activity 915 00:41:56,205 --> 00:41:57,425 and micronutrients. 916 00:41:58,055 --> 00:42:00,825 When you add fish poop to your irrigation water, 917 00:42:01,165 --> 00:42:04,825 you are adding Life force probiotics and active microbes. 918 00:42:05,195 --> 00:42:08,185 These microorganisms include a wealth of various 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00:42:40,065 --> 00:42:41,465 sources or lab results. 933 00:42:42,095 --> 00:42:43,745 Fish poop, brand fish poop, 934 00:42:43,745 --> 00:42:47,065 however, generates their own fish waste as a byproduct 935 00:42:47,205 --> 00:42:49,625 of their organic aquaponics cannabis farm 936 00:42:49,675 --> 00:42:51,465 where they raise ornamental, koi 937 00:42:51,465 --> 00:42:53,905 and tilapia, you are even invited 938 00:42:53,925 --> 00:42:55,345 to tour their farm in person 939 00:42:55,485 --> 00:42:57,785 or on their YouTube channel to look for yourself. 940 00:42:58,415 --> 00:43:00,465 This sort of transparency is wildly 941 00:43:00,465 --> 00:43:01,665 rare in the fertilizer market. 942 00:43:02,525 --> 00:43:05,905 The folks behind fish poop are also lifelong medical 943 00:43:06,345 --> 00:43:08,745 cannabis producers who have deep connections in the 944 00:43:08,745 --> 00:43:11,385 community donate more product than they sell 945 00:43:11,685 --> 00:43:13,945 and support cannabis prisoner, veteran 946 00:43:14,125 --> 00:43:15,945 and patient collectives and charities. 947 00:43:16,725 --> 00:43:20,625 To get your bottle of pure fish poop, go to fish poop.com 948 00:43:21,005 --> 00:43:23,865 and to see their entire line of cannabis products go 949 00:43:23,865 --> 00:43:25,465 to ounce of hope.com. 950 00:43:25,845 --> 00:43:27,985 That's fish poop, brand Fish poop. 951 00:43:30,975 --> 00:43:33,145 This message is for folks who grow cannabis. 952 00:43:33,325 --> 00:43:35,145 I'm talking to home growers, patients 953 00:43:35,145 --> 00:43:36,465 and commercial growers too. 954 00:43:36,885 --> 00:43:39,265 I'm probably talking to you when you plan out 955 00:43:39,265 --> 00:43:40,305 your next growing cycle. 956 00:43:40,525 --> 00:43:43,105 Be sure to check out Humboldt CSI 957 00:43:43,315 --> 00:43:45,745 seeds@humboldtcsi.com. 958 00:43:46,275 --> 00:43:49,225 Caleb and Spec and his family have lived in Humboldt County 959 00:43:49,245 --> 00:43:50,265 for over a hundred years. 960 00:43:50,765 --> 00:43:53,065 For the last 40 years, three generations 961 00:43:53,065 --> 00:43:56,065 of his family have cultivated extraordinary sense EA 962 00:43:56,305 --> 00:43:58,665 cannabis in Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity Counties. 963 00:43:59,375 --> 00:44:01,065 Because of his lineage 964 00:44:01,065 --> 00:44:03,905 and the hard earned experience that comes from growing up, 965 00:44:04,175 --> 00:44:06,385 smoking and sifting large populations 966 00:44:06,385 --> 00:44:08,065 of cannabis plants in Northern California. 967 00:44:08,605 --> 00:44:12,345 The seeds you'll cop from CSI will be winning genetics based 968 00:44:12,365 --> 00:44:14,745 on longtime heavy hitters and updated 969 00:44:14,805 --> 00:44:16,185 and sifted to bring out new 970 00:44:16,185 --> 00:44:18,145 and exotic traits and better yields. 971 00:44:18,805 --> 00:44:22,065 Go ahead and ask around Caleb, also known as Inspect 972 00:44:22,405 --> 00:44:25,345 and Pirates of the Emerald Triangle, is a breeder's breeder. 973 00:44:25,605 --> 00:44:26,705 He reaches way back 974 00:44:26,705 --> 00:44:30,065 and works with significant strains, recreating them in new 975 00:44:30,065 --> 00:44:32,445 and interesting ways that you'll love as a toker 976 00:44:32,585 --> 00:44:35,525 and a grower, as well as offering you some surprises 977 00:44:35,525 --> 00:44:37,565 that will delight serious seed traders 978 00:44:37,565 --> 00:44:41,205 and cultivators Humboldt CSI goes as further step 979 00:44:41,385 --> 00:44:43,485 and selfs all these chemovars. 980 00:44:43,585 --> 00:44:45,285 So you know, all the seeds will be female. 981 00:44:45,655 --> 00:44:48,365 These are not experimental femini seeds. 982 00:44:49,085 --> 00:44:50,685 Humboldt CSI releases some 983 00:44:50,685 --> 00:44:52,925 of the best female seeds available anywhere 984 00:44:53,185 --> 00:44:54,605 and it will show in your garden. 985 00:44:55,455 --> 00:44:56,645 Folks grew quite a bit 986 00:44:56,645 --> 00:44:59,445 of CSI Humbold Gen X last year here on vash on Island, 987 00:44:59,745 --> 00:45:00,965 and everyone was pleased. 988 00:45:01,385 --> 00:45:03,525 The patients had beautiful female plants 989 00:45:03,665 --> 00:45:06,165 and didn't have to call half of their garden as males. 990 00:45:06,745 --> 00:45:09,085 The folks growing for the fun of getting high, 991 00:45:09,395 --> 00:45:12,125 grew colorful flowers with exceptional bag appeal 992 00:45:12,145 --> 00:45:15,205 and great highs and breeders had seven out 993 00:45:15,205 --> 00:45:17,765 of seven females in a pack, which gave them a lot 994 00:45:17,765 --> 00:45:18,805 of phenotypic choices. 995 00:45:19,755 --> 00:45:23,765 Take a moment right now and visit humboldt csi.com. 996 00:45:24,065 --> 00:45:26,805 You'll find an UpToDate menu of both feminized 997 00:45:26,865 --> 00:45:29,685 and regular lines along with photos and descriptions. 998 00:45:30,065 --> 00:45:34,925 That's humboldt csi.com. Welcome back. 999 00:45:34,925 --> 00:45:36,285 You are listening to Shaping Fire. 1000 00:45:36,425 --> 00:45:37,805 I'm your host Shang Los, 1001 00:45:38,065 --> 00:45:40,885 and my guest today is Regenerative Farmer Daniel Stein. 1002 00:45:41,265 --> 00:45:43,525 So before the break we were talking about the, 1003 00:45:43,545 --> 00:45:44,725 the initial things to do, 1004 00:45:44,865 --> 00:45:47,685 or at least considerations as you are, uh, 1005 00:45:47,685 --> 00:45:50,565 setting up your farm to become regenerative, whether 1006 00:45:50,565 --> 00:45:52,965 or not whether you are, uh, post petroleum 1007 00:45:52,965 --> 00:45:55,045 or if it's just your first time on the property. 1008 00:45:55,585 --> 00:45:59,845 Now, one of the things that Daniel hit on was that, um, 1009 00:45:59,945 --> 00:46:01,565 you know, if you're building up all this soil, 1010 00:46:01,705 --> 00:46:03,525 you don't want it all to get washed away. 1011 00:46:03,665 --> 00:46:06,085 And so that's what we're gonna start with, Daniel. 1012 00:46:06,305 --> 00:46:09,965 You know, water retention is really important, you know, 1013 00:46:09,985 --> 00:46:12,925 across the country, but especially where you live 1014 00:46:12,925 --> 00:46:16,285 because you, like I we have this, this drought portion 1015 00:46:16,665 --> 00:46:18,725 of the summer and um, 1016 00:46:19,185 --> 00:46:22,405 and there's lots of, there's lots of laws rurally about 1017 00:46:22,595 --> 00:46:24,605 what you can and can't do with water. 1018 00:46:25,185 --> 00:46:27,405 And if you find yourself without water 1019 00:46:27,545 --> 00:46:29,325 and you're far out, like you are off grid, 1020 00:46:29,325 --> 00:46:31,245 it's not like you can just turn on the faucet 1021 00:46:31,265 --> 00:46:32,725 and then suddenly there it is. 1022 00:46:33,885 --> 00:46:36,925 Absolutely. And and you also mentioned that, um, you know, 1023 00:46:36,925 --> 00:46:39,165 not only do you want to retain the water, 1024 00:46:39,865 --> 00:46:44,005 but you also need to control the flow of water so 1025 00:46:44,005 --> 00:46:47,045 that the water doesn't take away all the nutrients 1026 00:46:47,045 --> 00:46:48,365 that you're putting in all this 1027 00:46:48,365 --> 00:46:49,805 effort building into the soil. 1028 00:46:50,505 --> 00:46:53,405 So I'd like you to talk through, um, yeah. 1029 00:46:53,415 --> 00:46:56,645 Let's, you know for certain, use your property as example, 1030 00:46:56,905 --> 00:46:59,405 but I'd like you to talk about it more theoretically. 1031 00:46:59,425 --> 00:47:02,285 So it, so it applies to many people's farms. 1032 00:47:02,715 --> 00:47:05,765 Talk about water retention, meaning how, 1033 00:47:05,825 --> 00:47:08,685 how you can sequester the water on your property, uh, 1034 00:47:08,685 --> 00:47:10,845 strategies to do that so the water stays. 1035 00:47:11,345 --> 00:47:14,845 And then second, how you control the flow so 1036 00:47:14,845 --> 00:47:16,525 that it doesn't wash all the good hard 1037 00:47:16,525 --> 00:47:17,605 work you've done away. 1038 00:47:18,875 --> 00:47:21,525 - Yeah, well there there's a number of strategies 1039 00:47:21,525 --> 00:47:25,405 and it really depends on, on your individual situation needs 1040 00:47:25,825 --> 00:47:28,445 and, and what you're going for for your farm. 1041 00:47:28,685 --> 00:47:31,645 I mean, the answer to so many of, 1042 00:47:32,465 --> 00:47:35,085 of the issues is organic matter. 1043 00:47:35,475 --> 00:47:39,805 Organic matter is how you can hold water like a sponge. 1044 00:47:39,995 --> 00:47:42,485 It's how you can hold nutrients, it's how you can, 1045 00:47:42,625 --> 00:47:46,245 you can buffer high rainfall, high water events. 1046 00:47:47,185 --> 00:47:50,285 Um, it it's, it's the answer to 1047 00:47:50,305 --> 00:47:52,405 so much when it comes to, to farming. 1048 00:47:53,225 --> 00:47:57,765 Um, and then in, in terms of, of water flow, 1049 00:47:58,345 --> 00:48:01,645 if you're try, if your site doesn't get enough water 1050 00:48:01,885 --> 00:48:06,525 retention throughout the season, the main thing you wanna do 1051 00:48:07,185 --> 00:48:09,045 is, is get more water to it. 1052 00:48:11,355 --> 00:48:14,775 And, and so doing things like swales where, 1053 00:48:14,865 --> 00:48:17,775 where you slow down the water coming across your property 1054 00:48:17,915 --> 00:48:21,455 and get it to go into, into your system, help that. 1055 00:48:21,555 --> 00:48:24,135 And that's in my environment, 1056 00:48:24,195 --> 00:48:26,335 that's not something I've ever really had to do 1057 00:48:26,335 --> 00:48:29,235 with 80 inches of rain, everything 1058 00:48:29,235 --> 00:48:32,155 that can get saturated gets saturated without the help 1059 00:48:32,175 --> 00:48:33,635 of bringing more water into it. 1060 00:48:33,935 --> 00:48:36,395 And as a matter of fact, doing swales is, 1061 00:48:36,495 --> 00:48:38,155 is something you have to be careful about 1062 00:48:38,155 --> 00:48:41,275 because if you super saturate areas you could deal with with 1063 00:48:41,845 --> 00:48:44,555 landslides if it's in the wrong, wrong kind of an area. 1064 00:48:44,615 --> 00:48:46,915 Mm-Hmm. . Um, we do use some 1065 00:48:46,915 --> 00:48:49,435 of those techniques less about retaining water 1066 00:48:49,455 --> 00:48:51,755 and more about slowing water down in areas 1067 00:48:51,865 --> 00:48:54,075 that we have plantings that can uptake some 1068 00:48:54,075 --> 00:48:56,595 of those nutrients that that would flow out with water. 1069 00:48:57,525 --> 00:49:00,585 Um, so low on our property, we have some swales that are, 1070 00:49:00,725 --> 00:49:02,585 are planted in, in comfort 1071 00:49:02,845 --> 00:49:04,505 and other things that are deep rooted 1072 00:49:04,605 --> 00:49:06,745 so it can slow any water down and, 1073 00:49:06,805 --> 00:49:09,705 and we can hopefully remove a lot of the nutrients 1074 00:49:09,705 --> 00:49:11,425 that would be flowing out with that water 1075 00:49:12,005 --> 00:49:14,505 and turn them back into plant material that we can harvest 1076 00:49:14,645 --> 00:49:16,905 and bring up to, to the top of the system again. 1077 00:49:17,645 --> 00:49:22,385 Uh, but it definitely is organic matter. 1078 00:49:22,385 --> 00:49:23,905 Organic matter is the sponge. 1079 00:49:24,205 --> 00:49:28,265 It, it reduces water speed flowing 1080 00:49:28,265 --> 00:49:29,265 through sandy soil. 1081 00:49:30,005 --> 00:49:33,665 It increases the drainage capacity of clay soil. 1082 00:49:34,525 --> 00:49:37,865 It, it brings everything into balance. 1083 00:49:38,625 --> 00:49:40,465 - I believe this next question you've just answered, 1084 00:49:40,685 --> 00:49:42,105 and it's gonna be organic material, 1085 00:49:42,165 --> 00:49:43,345 but I'm gonna ask it anyway 1086 00:49:43,345 --> 00:49:46,105 because a lot of people run into it, you know, a lot 1087 00:49:46,105 --> 00:49:47,145 of parts of the country and, 1088 00:49:47,145 --> 00:49:48,945 and it's probably even gonna become more common 1089 00:49:49,245 --> 00:49:51,425 to have a drought period during the summer. 1090 00:49:52,085 --> 00:49:55,265 And when that happens, you know, the, the top soil gets, um, 1091 00:49:55,365 --> 00:49:58,225 you know, dusty and, and, and many places. 1092 00:49:58,365 --> 00:50:02,465 It gets hydrophobic so that when the rain does start, um, 1093 00:50:02,845 --> 00:50:05,625 it doesn't immediately go into the, 1094 00:50:06,125 --> 00:50:08,065 the top soil and it and it runs. 1095 00:50:08,285 --> 00:50:11,505 And, and so people really rely on, on these, uh, 1096 00:50:11,505 --> 00:50:14,305 permaculture solutions like swales, um, mm-hmm. 1097 00:50:14,385 --> 00:50:16,465 to, to guide it and to, 1098 00:50:16,565 --> 00:50:18,185 and to also slow it down. 1099 00:50:18,885 --> 00:50:22,145 Do you find, like, the question is what do you, 1100 00:50:22,145 --> 00:50:27,065 what strategy do you most like to, uh, fight the likelihood 1101 00:50:27,585 --> 00:50:30,645 of, um, hydrophobic soil so 1102 00:50:30,645 --> 00:50:34,165 that when the rains first start for the year, um, 1103 00:50:34,705 --> 00:50:39,365 you don't lose a lot of important soil and soil chemistry 1104 00:50:39,905 --> 00:50:42,005 before the soil opens up? 1105 00:50:43,805 --> 00:50:47,135 - Well, mulch being kind of the best when it, 1106 00:50:47,165 --> 00:50:48,855 when it's something that you can work with. 1107 00:50:48,965 --> 00:50:52,455 Like if, if you are in a cropping system 1108 00:50:52,625 --> 00:50:55,655 where you can do a heavy mulch, if you can afford to either 1109 00:50:56,305 --> 00:50:58,375 bring a quality straw on 1110 00:50:58,435 --> 00:51:00,015 or use wood chips for mulch 1111 00:51:00,445 --> 00:51:02,815 that will break up the water, it'll slow it down. 1112 00:51:03,995 --> 00:51:08,295 Um, that works for much of our farm for a lot of the, 1113 00:51:08,435 --> 00:51:09,695 the vegetable side of it. 1114 00:51:09,835 --> 00:51:13,735 You know, we, you can't mulch around radishes 1115 00:51:13,925 --> 00:51:16,815 that are in the ground for four weeks and then pull a mulch 1116 00:51:16,815 --> 00:51:17,855 and replant each time. 1117 00:51:18,435 --> 00:51:21,135 So we do have a lot of beds that that end up being 1118 00:51:21,985 --> 00:51:24,575 relatively bare soil, even though there, 1119 00:51:24,575 --> 00:51:27,135 there's cover crop planted in them that will sprout quickly 1120 00:51:27,185 --> 00:51:28,335 after the first rains. 1121 00:51:28,795 --> 00:51:32,375 Uh, one of the main things we do for that, where we don't, 1122 00:51:32,595 --> 00:51:34,895 we don't have control of it through something on the surface 1123 00:51:34,955 --> 00:51:36,615 of the soil, is making sure that all 1124 00:51:36,615 --> 00:51:39,895 of our beds are on contour. 1125 00:51:40,275 --> 00:51:43,015 So in a way they act like swales. Hmm. 1126 00:51:43,115 --> 00:51:44,615 So our beds are on contour 1127 00:51:44,615 --> 00:51:48,535 and even though we don't have much of a slope, um, the, 1128 00:51:48,885 --> 00:51:50,055 they're on contour 1129 00:51:50,075 --> 00:51:52,495 and they're slightly raised above the pathways so 1130 00:51:52,495 --> 00:51:54,695 that if we do lose any soil from erosion, 1131 00:51:54,995 --> 00:51:56,175 it goes into the pathways. 1132 00:51:56,955 --> 00:52:00,695 And then every couple years we, we come through 1133 00:52:00,875 --> 00:52:04,135 and we put the, the, the soil and, 1134 00:52:04,395 --> 00:52:06,735 and broken down wood chip mulch 1135 00:52:06,735 --> 00:52:09,175 and various things that have built up in the pathways back 1136 00:52:09,195 --> 00:52:10,295 on top of the beds. 1137 00:52:10,675 --> 00:52:14,295 And it acts like a, a another kind of a boost. 1138 00:52:14,325 --> 00:52:16,535 It's, it, it's like putting compost on top 1139 00:52:16,535 --> 00:52:17,695 of the beds. Mm-Hmm. . 1140 00:52:18,675 --> 00:52:21,415 - So earlier you mentioned, uh, trap plants 1141 00:52:22,035 --> 00:52:24,335 and um, uh, in addition to that, and, and, 1142 00:52:24,335 --> 00:52:25,815 and perhaps you can explain the kind 1143 00:52:25,815 --> 00:52:26,935 of trap plants that you like. 1144 00:52:27,195 --> 00:52:29,295 Um, how do you manage pests on your property? 1145 00:52:30,565 --> 00:52:32,625 - Um, well, different pests, different ways. 1146 00:52:32,785 --> 00:52:36,335 I mean, there, there are pests 1147 00:52:36,335 --> 00:52:39,175 that we can manage effectively through 1148 00:52:39,855 --> 00:52:41,215 encouraging the natural balance. 1149 00:52:41,515 --> 00:52:45,855 And then there are pests that come out of balance, um, pests 1150 00:52:45,855 --> 00:52:47,175 that we can deal with effectively 1151 00:52:48,245 --> 00:52:49,615 through the natural balance. 1152 00:52:50,035 --> 00:52:54,935 We, we encourage, uh, plants that are, are, uh, 1153 00:52:55,555 --> 00:52:57,175 an ecosystem and environment 1154 00:52:57,175 --> 00:52:59,695 that encourages natural predators. 1155 00:53:00,315 --> 00:53:01,415 And often for us, 1156 00:53:01,425 --> 00:53:05,735 those are our humbles things like Queen Ann's lace, sweetly, 1157 00:53:06,315 --> 00:53:07,695 um, various flowers. 1158 00:53:08,395 --> 00:53:11,255 Um, one thing that I i a lot of people don't, 1159 00:53:11,255 --> 00:53:13,015 don't realize is that the, 1160 00:53:15,515 --> 00:53:19,255 the stage of, of much of many of the predators 1161 00:53:19,255 --> 00:53:22,015 that attack pests, say if it's aphids or thrips 1162 00:53:22,015 --> 00:53:23,975 or something like that, a lot of the predators 1163 00:53:23,975 --> 00:53:27,765 that attack those pests are the larval stage. 1164 00:53:28,025 --> 00:53:29,925 Mm-Hmm. of, of the predator. 1165 00:53:30,505 --> 00:53:33,165 And that the adult stage that you need 1166 00:53:33,165 --> 00:53:35,725 to have a round in order to lay the eggs in the right place 1167 00:53:35,725 --> 00:53:38,685 to have the larval stage eat nectar 1168 00:53:38,685 --> 00:53:41,085 and pollen from specific plants. 1169 00:53:41,225 --> 00:53:43,245 So, so when you talk about beneficial plants, 1170 00:53:43,515 --> 00:53:45,805 it's all often you're providing the food 1171 00:53:45,805 --> 00:53:48,125 and the environment for the adult stage of, 1172 00:53:48,385 --> 00:53:50,445 of a beneficial insect that will then 1173 00:53:51,305 --> 00:53:54,085 go lay its eggs in aphid bodies 1174 00:53:54,305 --> 00:53:56,965 or lay larvae that then crawl around on the plant 1175 00:53:57,025 --> 00:53:58,325 and, and eat rips. 1176 00:53:58,985 --> 00:54:00,125 Um, things like that. 1177 00:54:00,905 --> 00:54:05,165 Um, the, the trap crops are, are interesting 1178 00:54:05,405 --> 00:54:09,765 'cause the idea of a trap crop is having, having a plant 1179 00:54:09,915 --> 00:54:13,565 that your pests desire more than your cash crop. 1180 00:54:14,105 --> 00:54:16,525 And one of the main ones we use in our cannabis is, 1181 00:54:16,625 --> 00:54:20,365 is actually catnip works really well for 1182 00:54:21,245 --> 00:54:24,045 mites seem to prefer catnip over 1183 00:54:24,445 --> 00:54:25,925 cannabis any day of the week. 1184 00:54:26,665 --> 00:54:28,485 And, and it provides an environment. 1185 00:54:28,505 --> 00:54:30,925 So if we do have something outta balance, we can, 1186 00:54:31,225 --> 00:54:33,125 if we're using beneficial insects, 1187 00:54:33,585 --> 00:54:38,285 we can release the beneficial insects into the trap crop 1188 00:54:38,285 --> 00:54:42,525 where there's a, a large population of, 1189 00:54:44,315 --> 00:54:47,455 of the pest and they can eat the pest, they can breed 1190 00:54:47,455 --> 00:54:48,895 and then they can branch out from there. 1191 00:54:49,345 --> 00:54:52,215 Where if, if you're, if you're buying a, 1192 00:54:52,235 --> 00:54:53,935 an expensive beneficial insect 1193 00:54:53,935 --> 00:54:57,335 and putting it on say a cannabis plant that has a, a, 1194 00:54:57,575 --> 00:55:01,655 a smattering of a pest, not, not to an epidemic proportion, 1195 00:55:02,035 --> 00:55:05,695 you're wasting a lot of, a lot of that insect, they'll, 1196 00:55:05,695 --> 00:55:06,855 they'll mostly die off 1197 00:55:06,855 --> 00:55:08,295 of starvation if they can't find 1198 00:55:08,295 --> 00:55:09,335 their food. Mm-Hmm. , 1199 00:55:10,215 --> 00:55:11,295 - I, I like this idea. 1200 00:55:11,515 --> 00:55:15,295 And, uh, uh, that is common in, in regenerative agriculture 1201 00:55:15,295 --> 00:55:18,175 that, that these pests are usually coming 1202 00:55:18,245 --> 00:55:21,655 because the garden is, uh, out of balance 1203 00:55:22,355 --> 00:55:24,295 and it's, it swings one way 1204 00:55:24,355 --> 00:55:27,175 or another too dry, too wet too, too whatever. 1205 00:55:27,755 --> 00:55:29,935 And, and, and when it's out of balance, 1206 00:55:30,355 --> 00:55:34,535 it creates opportunities for certain pests to expand 1207 00:55:34,675 --> 00:55:35,895 and then you've got a problem. 1208 00:55:36,715 --> 00:55:38,415 And, um, I think it's really fun 1209 00:55:38,415 --> 00:55:41,375 because when I tour regenerative farms, there's, 1210 00:55:41,375 --> 00:55:43,935 there's just such a diversity of plants, right? 1211 00:55:44,205 --> 00:55:45,375 It's, it's, it's, it's the 1212 00:55:45,575 --> 00:55:46,975 complete opposite of a monoculture. 1213 00:55:47,165 --> 00:55:49,175 Yeah, of course we've got, we've got these, you know, fields 1214 00:55:49,175 --> 00:55:51,495 of cannabis, but then you've got, you know, you know, 1215 00:55:51,635 --> 00:55:54,935 all these smaller plants and then, and then cover crops 1216 00:55:55,035 --> 00:55:57,775 and then, uh, ornamentals that are are just pretty 1217 00:55:57,835 --> 00:56:00,735 for the farm and, and they're all growing. 1218 00:56:01,275 --> 00:56:02,335 And then in the summer, 1219 00:56:02,335 --> 00:56:05,455 which is normally when I do my doers, they're all flowering 1220 00:56:05,595 --> 00:56:07,415 and gorgeous and they smell good. 1221 00:56:07,675 --> 00:56:11,055 And you can, you can feel the balance of the farm. 1222 00:56:11,715 --> 00:56:16,415 And, and I, I think that the, the number one solution 1223 00:56:17,395 --> 00:56:20,855 for pests on regenerative farms is just to grow a lot 1224 00:56:20,915 --> 00:56:22,535 and a lot of variety 1225 00:56:22,535 --> 00:56:24,885 because I certainly have got great, uh, 1226 00:56:24,885 --> 00:56:27,765 results from adding beneficial insects as well. 1227 00:56:28,185 --> 00:56:30,445 But, but you're, you're speaking the truth man. 1228 00:56:30,445 --> 00:56:32,965 When you, when you say that if, if you, if your, 1229 00:56:33,625 --> 00:56:36,085 if your garden isn't already out of balance, 1230 00:56:36,215 --> 00:56:39,725 there might not be enough food for the beneficial insects 1231 00:56:39,985 --> 00:56:41,525 to keep them going. 1232 00:56:42,145 --> 00:56:45,645 And so it's really going to be better for you to, instead of 1233 00:56:46,145 --> 00:56:48,725 of spot trying to fix a problem, 1234 00:56:49,425 --> 00:56:53,645 really focus on the biological diversity and the flowering 1235 00:56:53,645 --> 00:56:57,445 and plant diversity so that, um, the plants that you want, 1236 00:56:57,595 --> 00:56:59,925 they choose to come to your farm 1237 00:57:00,065 --> 00:57:02,845 and they choose to do their lifecycle on your farm. 1238 00:57:03,425 --> 00:57:07,365 And then you can save some money on the biologicals like 1239 00:57:07,365 --> 00:57:11,045 beneficial insects, um, for when you actually have a problem 1240 00:57:11,425 --> 00:57:13,045 and, and you need some first aid. 1241 00:57:13,955 --> 00:57:15,605 - Yeah. And Abso absolutely, 1242 00:57:15,745 --> 00:57:19,685 and even even there within that, our farm 1243 00:57:20,335 --> 00:57:21,765 isn't an island. 1244 00:57:22,825 --> 00:57:24,925 It, it is in a greater environment. 1245 00:57:25,145 --> 00:57:27,925 And so as we've seen more proliferation 1246 00:57:28,225 --> 00:57:31,485 of large cannabis farms as we've had 1247 00:57:31,485 --> 00:57:35,325 to move towards using clones, things like that, more, 1248 00:57:35,395 --> 00:57:36,965 more pests become an issue. 1249 00:57:37,045 --> 00:57:41,485 Like the, the hemp aphid did not exist for us 1250 00:57:42,545 --> 00:57:44,525 in any way many years ago 1251 00:57:44,785 --> 00:57:48,045 and never would have if we didn't have some large cannabis 1252 00:57:48,135 --> 00:57:50,285 farms in our area that proliferated them. 1253 00:57:51,185 --> 00:57:52,685 Um, and that, 1254 00:57:53,195 --> 00:57:56,245 that particular pest poses a unique problem 1255 00:57:56,245 --> 00:57:57,365 because our, 1256 00:57:58,225 --> 00:58:01,645 the way our environment will is bringing 1257 00:58:01,675 --> 00:58:05,605 that pest into balance, is through a number of predators, 1258 00:58:05,605 --> 00:58:08,685 but one of the primary ones is the surf 1259 00:58:08,685 --> 00:58:10,605 and fly, uh, or hover fly. 1260 00:58:11,025 --> 00:58:13,605 And they're those little things that kind of look like bees, 1261 00:58:13,665 --> 00:58:15,805 but they're shaped like flies if you've ever seen them. 1262 00:58:15,905 --> 00:58:18,765 For sure. And, and they're wonderful. 1263 00:58:19,865 --> 00:58:21,285 The, the issue is 1264 00:58:21,515 --> 00:58:23,725 that the hemp aphid comes late in the season 1265 00:58:23,825 --> 00:58:26,245 during budding often or early budding, 1266 00:58:26,865 --> 00:58:29,045 and the surfing flies follow them. 1267 00:58:29,045 --> 00:58:32,685 And the way the surf fly, um, feeds on, 1268 00:58:32,985 --> 00:58:37,245 on the aphid is by, by laying eggs, which hatch 1269 00:58:37,385 --> 00:58:41,805 and develop into larva, which then crawl around 1270 00:58:42,105 --> 00:58:43,725 and or squirm around. 1271 00:58:43,725 --> 00:58:45,805 They kind of look like maggots and, 1272 00:58:46,105 --> 00:58:47,725 and eat aphids and aphid eggs. 1273 00:58:48,545 --> 00:58:52,085 Now, the issue with that is it is bringing it into balance, 1274 00:58:52,545 --> 00:58:54,445 and it is getting rid of the aphids. 1275 00:58:54,445 --> 00:58:58,885 Oftentimes, there's no aphids left in on, 1276 00:58:59,105 --> 00:59:02,005 on plants where, where the circuit flies have worked, 1277 00:59:02,665 --> 00:59:06,205 but they also leave eggs 1278 00:59:06,705 --> 00:59:09,245 and larva inside of buds. 1279 00:59:10,145 --> 00:59:14,365 So the, the most extreme version of this is, um, a number 1280 00:59:14,365 --> 00:59:18,205 of years ago, um, I knew of a jar brand and, 1281 00:59:18,305 --> 00:59:19,885 and the, the surf 1282 00:59:19,885 --> 00:59:24,285 and fly larvae will remain dormant at certain temperatures, 1283 00:59:24,465 --> 00:59:27,605 but then develop at room temperature over 1284 00:59:27,605 --> 00:59:28,645 the course of two weeks. 1285 00:59:29,465 --> 00:59:32,285 So there was a, a jarred brand that, 1286 00:59:32,355 --> 00:59:35,125 that had organic regenerative cannabis in it. 1287 00:59:36,025 --> 00:59:38,685 And because it was organic 1288 00:59:38,745 --> 00:59:40,245 and there were aphids, there was surf 1289 00:59:40,245 --> 00:59:41,765 and fly larvae that had, 1290 00:59:42,275 --> 00:59:45,205 once it was put on the shelf in the dispensary at room 1291 00:59:45,205 --> 00:59:48,765 temperature had hatched and become flies inside of the jar. 1292 00:59:49,425 --> 00:59:50,485 - Oh, what a, what a 1293 00:59:50,725 --> 00:59:52,525 - Terrible, which really makes for bad branding 1294 00:59:52,645 --> 00:59:53,645 - . 1295 00:59:53,645 --> 00:59:54,885 Yeah. That's a really bad brand experience for sure. 1296 00:59:55,385 --> 00:59:59,365 - So that, that particular balance does not work for us. 1297 00:59:59,705 --> 01:00:03,875 We can't encourage surfing flies 1298 01:00:04,255 --> 01:00:06,555 as the answer for aphids, 1299 01:00:06,555 --> 01:00:09,235 even though our natural environment wants 1300 01:00:09,235 --> 01:00:10,275 that to be the balance. 1301 01:00:11,575 --> 01:00:14,675 Um, so we do have to work with, with beneficial insects 1302 01:00:14,675 --> 01:00:18,475 to control the aphids early on so that we don't have what 1303 01:00:19,175 --> 01:00:23,355 is essentially a beneficial insect, um, hurt the, 1304 01:00:23,355 --> 01:00:25,035 the quality of our flower down the line. 1305 01:00:25,215 --> 01:00:26,475 - Wow. That's really thoughtful. 1306 01:00:26,615 --> 01:00:30,835 Um, not only so, so the, so the aphids are the original pest 1307 01:00:31,255 --> 01:00:34,035 and the surf it flies are the original beneficial, 1308 01:00:34,655 --> 01:00:38,355 but due to the nature of the surf, it flies the surf. 1309 01:00:38,355 --> 01:00:40,235 It flies, actually becomes a pest 1310 01:00:40,235 --> 01:00:42,555 because of their larva in the flowers. 1311 01:00:43,135 --> 01:00:45,275 And so actually you need a third party 1312 01:00:45,585 --> 01:00:47,355 outside beneficial insect. 1313 01:00:47,465 --> 01:00:49,635 Yeah. That will take out the aphids 1314 01:00:49,635 --> 01:00:51,115 before the aphids get so significant 1315 01:00:51,115 --> 01:00:52,555 that they track the surf. It flies. 1316 01:00:53,105 --> 01:00:56,755 - Yeah. And so , we do introduce green la swing, 1317 01:00:57,325 --> 01:00:58,875 which are natural here, 1318 01:00:59,175 --> 01:01:01,635 but never seem to build up enough 1319 01:01:01,635 --> 01:01:04,275 of a natural population fast enough. 1320 01:01:04,295 --> 01:01:07,555 Mm-Hmm. to deal with, uh, the, the hemp aphid, 1321 01:01:07,605 --> 01:01:11,235 which doesn't exist here naturally along with cannabis, 1322 01:01:11,365 --> 01:01:13,915 which also doesn't exist here naturally. 1323 01:01:14,255 --> 01:01:17,435 So it makes sense that, that it, it is sometimes hard 1324 01:01:17,435 --> 01:01:20,035 for the natural system to come into balance with these 1325 01:01:20,745 --> 01:01:22,275 essentially exotic plants. 1326 01:01:23,215 --> 01:01:27,355 Um, they, the, the lar the lace wing isn't able 1327 01:01:27,355 --> 01:01:29,515 to build up a population quick enough to deal 1328 01:01:29,515 --> 01:01:33,075 with just the incredibly rapid rate at which, um, 1329 01:01:33,225 --> 01:01:34,635 hemp aphids proliferate. 1330 01:01:36,775 --> 01:01:40,675 - Wow. So, um, - And hemp aphids do, like, there's, 1331 01:01:41,175 --> 01:01:42,435 it comes to variety there. 1332 01:01:42,435 --> 01:01:45,435 There's, there's strains that they seem to like, no matter 1333 01:01:45,575 --> 01:01:48,715 how healthy they are, that there's something about them they 1334 01:01:48,715 --> 01:01:52,515 like, and there's, they don't seem to like, and, 1335 01:01:52,855 --> 01:01:54,075 and not all, 1336 01:01:55,405 --> 01:01:58,635 oftentimes it is there is an imbalance in the farm 1337 01:01:58,635 --> 01:02:00,755 that causes a pest to, to like something. 1338 01:02:01,175 --> 01:02:04,195 But there, there's oftentimes pests that, that 1339 01:02:04,935 --> 01:02:09,195 do really well, uh, um, attacking plants. 1340 01:02:09,295 --> 01:02:11,755 And, and it might not be that the plant's outta balance, 1341 01:02:11,855 --> 01:02:14,275 it might just be that that plant has not developed 1342 01:02:14,275 --> 01:02:16,555 with a resistance to that particular pest 1343 01:02:16,555 --> 01:02:19,325 because they known each other long enough. Mm. 1344 01:02:19,505 --> 01:02:22,325 - Ah, I mean, that makes sense, especially with, you know, 1345 01:02:22,395 --> 01:02:25,445 some of these, uh, the, the, the newer strains that, that, 1346 01:02:25,475 --> 01:02:29,445 that are like a far cry away from, uh, land races sometimes. 1347 01:02:29,445 --> 01:02:30,885 Sometimes they just, yeah, absolutely. 1348 01:02:30,985 --> 01:02:33,325 So they just don't have that depth of, uh, 1349 01:02:33,325 --> 01:02:34,645 of genetic protection. 1350 01:02:34,705 --> 01:02:36,325 - No. They've, they've never seen, uh, 1351 01:02:36,345 --> 01:02:38,125 the sun even even much 1352 01:02:38,125 --> 01:02:40,245 - Less that they've never been outside of indoor . 1353 01:02:40,245 --> 01:02:44,005 Yeah. Yeah. Um, so let, let's, let's, uh, shift gears to, 1354 01:02:44,185 --> 01:02:47,005 um, uh, to animals on the property. 1355 01:02:47,425 --> 01:02:51,965 Um, so far, uh, you have mentioned, uh, chickens as far 1356 01:02:51,965 --> 01:02:53,885 as animal husbandry goes and, 1357 01:02:53,905 --> 01:02:56,965 and using, uh, manure from neighbors farms, 1358 01:02:56,985 --> 01:02:58,445 but that, that was way in the beginning. 1359 01:02:58,665 --> 01:03:00,365 So, Mm-Hmm. . So, so now 1360 01:03:00,365 --> 01:03:01,925 that you are more established, 1361 01:03:01,925 --> 01:03:03,765 perhaps you have other animals too, but, 1362 01:03:03,945 --> 01:03:06,765 but whether, whether the animals are yours 1363 01:03:06,865 --> 01:03:09,245 or whether you're bringing them from elsewhere, um, 1364 01:03:09,245 --> 01:03:13,365 speak a little bit, if you would, to, um, how, uh, animal, 1365 01:03:13,905 --> 01:03:17,645 um, inputs, if you will, uh, whether it's their manure 1366 01:03:17,665 --> 01:03:20,325 or their, their, their body, uh, how, 1367 01:03:20,385 --> 01:03:22,645 how those are being incorporated into 1368 01:03:22,825 --> 01:03:23,965 the cycle on your farm. 1369 01:03:24,715 --> 01:03:25,765 - Yeah, absolutely. 1370 01:03:25,795 --> 01:03:28,935 Well, I mean, number one, it's the, the relationship 1371 01:03:28,935 --> 01:03:30,455 with humans and animals 1372 01:03:30,475 --> 01:03:34,455 and farming, it, it all kind of evolved together. 1373 01:03:34,705 --> 01:03:36,455 Right. And the, 1374 01:03:36,515 --> 01:03:40,015 the way I see it is animals have developed incredible 1375 01:03:40,365 --> 01:03:43,655 microbiomes, um, to be able to digest 1376 01:03:43,875 --> 01:03:46,495 and process raw rough food 1377 01:03:47,275 --> 01:03:49,655 and come out with a fertilizer basically. 1378 01:03:49,875 --> 01:03:53,575 Mm-Hmm. . Uh, so goats are the, the primary 1379 01:03:54,825 --> 01:03:56,495 large animal we have on our farm. 1380 01:03:56,795 --> 01:04:01,055 And our goats free roam, a large area a 1381 01:04:01,055 --> 01:04:03,255 around our homestead, they're not fenced in. 1382 01:04:03,795 --> 01:04:05,175 Our homestead is fenced. 1383 01:04:05,355 --> 01:04:06,815 And, and the goats have everything else. 1384 01:04:07,675 --> 01:04:12,495 Um, and what they do is, is they gather food. 1385 01:04:12,645 --> 01:04:14,775 They, they go around, they, they eat a, 1386 01:04:14,935 --> 01:04:16,415 a wide variety of food. 1387 01:04:16,925 --> 01:04:19,975 They, they come back to the barn three times a day 1388 01:04:20,075 --> 01:04:22,015 and where they pee and they poop, and, 1389 01:04:22,595 --> 01:04:26,415 and they, they make a, a incredible compost 1390 01:04:26,415 --> 01:04:27,655 that we can gather and, 1391 01:04:27,755 --> 01:04:31,055 and add to our intentional compost piles every year. 1392 01:04:31,515 --> 01:04:32,935 And it's another way 1393 01:04:33,645 --> 01:04:37,095 besides wood chips, which are very slow, slow to degrade 1394 01:04:37,195 --> 01:04:41,055 and, and don't have a lot of nutritive value in terms of, 1395 01:04:41,155 --> 01:04:43,535 um, in terms of macronutrients. 1396 01:04:44,115 --> 01:04:48,055 Um, it's another way for us to, to gather biomass 1397 01:04:48,645 --> 01:04:51,775 from our surrounding area, bring it here onto our farm, 1398 01:04:51,795 --> 01:04:56,775 and process it into kind of a, a super fertilizer, um, and, 1399 01:04:56,955 --> 01:04:59,375 and an inoculant of microbiology. 1400 01:05:00,095 --> 01:05:01,735 - I wanna, I wanna poke at that bit. 1401 01:05:01,955 --> 01:05:04,175 Did you, did you really mean to suggest that the, 1402 01:05:04,325 --> 01:05:07,815 that the goats come back to the farm to poop 1403 01:05:07,835 --> 01:05:09,455 and that they, they don't just drop 1404 01:05:09,455 --> 01:05:11,055 it wherever they are walking around? No, 1405 01:05:11,055 --> 01:05:12,535 - They, they absolutely drop 1406 01:05:12,535 --> 01:05:13,855 it wherever they are walking around. 1407 01:05:13,955 --> 01:05:17,055 Oh, okay. No, no. So they, they come back to the barn. 1408 01:05:17,130 --> 01:05:18,690 They're, they're always pooping 1409 01:05:19,005 --> 01:05:20,005 - . 1410 01:05:20,005 --> 01:05:21,045 Right on. Okay. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, 1411 01:05:21,045 --> 01:05:23,165 - Does this, a lot of their poop ends up at the barn. 1412 01:05:23,195 --> 01:05:24,685 What they do is they'll roam around 1413 01:05:24,865 --> 01:05:26,605 and then they'll come back and loaf 1414 01:05:26,605 --> 01:05:28,645 and hang out at the barn and drink water. 1415 01:05:29,265 --> 01:05:30,645 And during that time, they're 1416 01:05:30,645 --> 01:05:32,045 continuing to poop. Alright, great. 1417 01:05:32,185 --> 01:05:33,925 - The way I heard I go, like, do they come back 1418 01:05:33,925 --> 01:05:35,045 to the barn is a toilet? 1419 01:05:35,395 --> 01:05:37,245 I've never heard that about goats, but, but now I 1420 01:05:37,245 --> 01:05:38,245 - Understand. 1421 01:05:38,245 --> 01:05:39,445 We're, we're really developing our, our animal training. 1422 01:05:39,445 --> 01:05:41,285 Like, bring don't pee. Not yet. 1423 01:05:41,505 --> 01:05:43,805 - No. Yeah. Hold it till you get back to the barn. Alright. 1424 01:05:43,925 --> 01:05:45,605 I, I understand more clearly now. 1425 01:05:45,605 --> 01:05:47,885 They're just, they're just always pooping and, and, 1426 01:05:47,885 --> 01:05:50,365 and they naturally come back to the barn for shelter 1427 01:05:50,545 --> 01:05:52,765 and water and they drop a load there too. Yeah, 1428 01:05:52,765 --> 01:05:53,765 - Exactly. 1429 01:05:53,765 --> 01:05:56,325 - Very good. Very good. Um, so do, when, 1430 01:05:56,325 --> 01:06:00,405 when you bring in manure from another property Mm-Hmm, 1431 01:06:00,445 --> 01:06:03,845 , um, how suspicious are you of that manure? 1432 01:06:03,915 --> 01:06:08,485 Like, like how much do you wanna know about those animals 1433 01:06:08,505 --> 01:06:09,925 before you're willing to bring the 1434 01:06:09,925 --> 01:06:11,125 manure onto your property? 1435 01:06:12,305 --> 01:06:13,525 - You, you wanna know a lot. 1436 01:06:13,865 --> 01:06:18,465 Um, you know, early on I brought horse manure on and, 1437 01:06:18,485 --> 01:06:20,425 and there's a couple aspects with horse manure. 1438 01:06:20,425 --> 01:06:22,745 Horses are basically pets to a lot of people. 1439 01:06:23,535 --> 01:06:26,425 Most people worm their horses continuously. 1440 01:06:27,085 --> 01:06:30,745 And, um, so wormer horses things kind 1441 01:06:30,745 --> 01:06:32,025 of pass straight through horses. 1442 01:06:32,925 --> 01:06:36,505 So if somebody is giving their horse horse wormer, 1443 01:06:36,605 --> 01:06:38,625 you basically have wormer in the manure. 1444 01:06:38,695 --> 01:06:41,225 Yeah. So you want to ask those kinds of questions. 1445 01:06:41,225 --> 01:06:43,105 Are your horses being fed any medication? 1446 01:06:43,375 --> 01:06:45,425 Another aspect with horse manure is 1447 01:06:45,425 --> 01:06:47,985 because things pass through horses, um, 1448 01:06:48,015 --> 01:06:51,105 something about the way they process you, they, 1449 01:06:51,135 --> 01:06:53,505 they don't process a lot of magnesium. 1450 01:06:53,685 --> 01:06:56,065 So horse manure is high in magnesium 1451 01:06:56,065 --> 01:06:57,705 that will build up over time if 1452 01:06:57,705 --> 01:06:59,265 that's the one manure you're using, 1453 01:06:59,285 --> 01:07:01,585 and you'll get an imbalance between the calcium 1454 01:07:01,725 --> 01:07:03,025 and magnesium in your soil. 1455 01:07:03,795 --> 01:07:04,815 Um, right now, one 1456 01:07:04,815 --> 01:07:08,655 of our primary manure inputs is from an organic dairy 1457 01:07:08,705 --> 01:07:13,695 where we, we get probably 40 to 50 yards of, 1458 01:07:14,155 --> 01:07:15,975 of dairy manure solids Wow. 1459 01:07:16,005 --> 01:07:19,255 From an organic dairy, which is wonderful. 1460 01:07:19,395 --> 01:07:20,615 It it's great material. 1461 01:07:21,035 --> 01:07:24,895 Um, one of the challenges with that is that they, 1462 01:07:25,325 --> 01:07:28,095 they dust the feeding stalls in the barn. 1463 01:07:28,235 --> 01:07:31,855 So, so the way that works is, is the, the cows get milked, 1464 01:07:31,855 --> 01:07:34,455 they go to, to a large barn with feeding stalls, 1465 01:07:34,515 --> 01:07:35,935 and then they go back out to pasture. 1466 01:07:36,875 --> 01:07:38,735 And while they poop in the feeding stalls, 1467 01:07:38,735 --> 01:07:41,975 that gets washed in into, uh, a trough 1468 01:07:41,975 --> 01:07:44,495 where the solids are separated from the liquids. 1469 01:07:44,635 --> 01:07:45,735 We get the solids, 1470 01:07:45,735 --> 01:07:48,055 the liquids get watered back out onto pasture, 1471 01:07:49,035 --> 01:07:52,895 but they dust down those feeding stalls with wood ash. 1472 01:07:53,395 --> 01:07:55,815 So now that we've been using that manure for a while, 1473 01:07:56,225 --> 01:07:58,935 we're starting to see a, an intense buildup 1474 01:07:58,935 --> 01:08:00,855 of potassium salts from the wood ash. 1475 01:08:01,635 --> 01:08:05,775 And so we're having to manage this, this great, um, biomass 1476 01:08:05,775 --> 01:08:09,785 that we're able to get at, at a good price, um, delivered 1477 01:08:09,785 --> 01:08:13,865 to us with dealing with potassium toxicity 1478 01:08:14,805 --> 01:08:17,605 as, as a potential outcome of that. 1479 01:08:17,665 --> 01:08:19,005 If we don't manage it properly. 1480 01:08:19,275 --> 01:08:20,725 - What does management of that look like? 1481 01:08:20,725 --> 01:08:22,925 That's a pretty exotic concern for me. 1482 01:08:23,955 --> 01:08:28,615 - Um, it's actually surprisingly common with a lot of, 1483 01:08:28,955 --> 01:08:31,455 of heavy compost applications 1484 01:08:31,475 --> 01:08:32,975 and especially manure applications. 1485 01:08:32,975 --> 01:08:34,255 Mm-Hmm. . Um, 1486 01:08:34,955 --> 01:08:37,255 but the, the way it works 1487 01:08:37,255 --> 01:08:40,215 for us is we just make sure we age the compost really well. 1488 01:08:41,035 --> 01:08:45,375 And we don't add potassium in any other facets. 1489 01:08:45,485 --> 01:08:49,455 It's like we used to add potassium in our amendments 1490 01:08:49,915 --> 01:08:52,055 to our farm, and we just don't do that anymore. 1491 01:08:52,355 --> 01:08:53,535 We make sure that doesn't happen. 1492 01:08:53,635 --> 01:08:57,495 And if we see signs, um, I believe one of the, one 1493 01:08:57,495 --> 01:09:01,495 of the aspects of potassium toxicity is a, 1494 01:09:01,775 --> 01:09:04,415 a reduced uptake of manganese, I believe it is. 1495 01:09:04,995 --> 01:09:09,055 And a reduced uptake of manganese during the first few weeks 1496 01:09:09,235 --> 01:09:12,575 of, of a flower cycle on cannabis could cause really small 1497 01:09:12,805 --> 01:09:14,495 buds, especially at the top. 1498 01:09:14,835 --> 01:09:18,415 So when you see like larger buds lower down on your 1499 01:09:18,415 --> 01:09:20,575 flowering stock, and as it comes towards 1500 01:09:20,605 --> 01:09:24,055 what should be the nice top cola on a stock, it kind 1501 01:09:24,055 --> 01:09:26,095 of flattens out and, 1502 01:09:26,235 --> 01:09:29,975 and stops developing into a larger bud that could often be, 1503 01:09:29,975 --> 01:09:32,895 be a manganese toxic, uh, a lack of manganese, 1504 01:09:32,895 --> 01:09:35,415 which either could be a potassium toxicity, 1505 01:09:35,435 --> 01:09:38,495 it also could be the manganese uptake didn't happen 1506 01:09:38,495 --> 01:09:42,575 because the temperatures were too low for the uptake for 1507 01:09:42,575 --> 01:09:43,575 that particular strain 1508 01:09:43,575 --> 01:09:45,215 during its first few weeks of flowering. 1509 01:09:45,295 --> 01:09:46,295 A few things like that. But, 1510 01:09:46,875 --> 01:09:50,095 but it's like paying close attention to, to 1511 01:09:50,245 --> 01:09:55,175 what we're seeing on, on the, the growing end of it 1512 01:09:55,195 --> 01:09:56,975 and seeing if we're seeing those effects. 1513 01:09:57,425 --> 01:09:58,975 - Right on. So we've been, 1514 01:09:59,185 --> 01:10:00,935 we've been talking a lot about specifics. 1515 01:10:00,935 --> 01:10:03,335 I wanna, I wanna pull back our focus for a minute. 1516 01:10:03,915 --> 01:10:06,255 Um, and, and kind of give you an opportunity maybe 1517 01:10:06,255 --> 01:10:07,535 for a little bit of storytelling, 1518 01:10:07,535 --> 01:10:09,895 because if we go back to, you know, 1519 01:10:09,905 --> 01:10:12,935 where we are now in talking about your, about your farm 1520 01:10:12,955 --> 01:10:15,055 and using it as a, as an example farm. 1521 01:10:15,515 --> 01:10:18,895 Um, you've got very, uh, sophisticated and, 1522 01:10:19,035 --> 01:10:23,135 and experienced rich solutions, whereas at the beginning 1523 01:10:23,155 --> 01:10:26,055 of the show, we were talking about your very young 1524 01:10:26,055 --> 01:10:29,615 and immature farm when and when you had no money and, 1525 01:10:29,635 --> 01:10:31,895 and like doing the best you can with what you've got. 1526 01:10:31,955 --> 01:10:36,335 And so we know that over the last 25 ish years, your, 1527 01:10:36,645 --> 01:10:38,375 your experience has been increasing 1528 01:10:38,555 --> 01:10:40,695 and the farm's depth has been increasing. 1529 01:10:41,355 --> 01:10:43,095 And which sets us up for this question. 1530 01:10:43,995 --> 01:10:47,335 I'm curious if there were, you know, were there, uh, 1531 01:10:47,435 --> 01:10:51,175 any milestones that you experienced which told you 1532 01:10:51,175 --> 01:10:54,375 that you were having a really positive impact on the 1533 01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:56,015 biological diversity of the farm 1534 01:10:56,015 --> 01:10:58,895 and that things were getting better, like in the soil 1535 01:10:59,315 --> 01:11:02,815 and in the, I don't know, the biosphere of, of, 1536 01:11:02,875 --> 01:11:06,175 of your farm when, uh, you know, signs that when you saw it, 1537 01:11:06,355 --> 01:11:07,415 you just like kind of stopped 1538 01:11:07,435 --> 01:11:10,575 and you're like, oh man, we're we're doing it, 1539 01:11:10,665 --> 01:11:11,775 we're doing it . 1540 01:11:13,125 --> 01:11:14,445 - I i there's a lot of that. 1541 01:11:14,565 --> 01:11:17,125 I mean, I, I kind of walk around every day 1542 01:11:17,145 --> 01:11:20,045 and feel that like, oh my God, this is, this is amazing. 1543 01:11:20,195 --> 01:11:21,725 It's, it's happening, it's working. 1544 01:11:22,425 --> 01:11:27,085 Um, I remember specifically, uh, the, the first 1545 01:11:27,425 --> 01:11:29,805 or, uh, regenerative cannabis conference. 1546 01:11:30,285 --> 01:11:32,045 I don't, I don't know if you were there. 1547 01:11:32,405 --> 01:11:33,525 - I wasn't at the first one. No. 1548 01:11:33,865 --> 01:11:36,205 - It, it was, it was right here in my neighborhood. 1549 01:11:36,465 --> 01:11:39,485 It was at, at, uh, beginnings in, in Priceland here. 1550 01:11:39,485 --> 01:11:40,725 And it was relatively small 1551 01:11:41,465 --> 01:11:44,765 and I, uh, I had a few people who were there, A few 1552 01:11:44,765 --> 01:11:47,565 of the presenters come up and do a quick little of the farm. 1553 01:11:48,585 --> 01:11:49,605 Um, and, 1554 01:11:49,905 --> 01:11:53,645 and one of the presenters was, uh, a mycologist 1555 01:11:53,705 --> 01:11:56,005 who focused on Michal mycology. 1556 01:11:56,985 --> 01:11:58,725 And he said, oh, this is cool. 1557 01:11:58,725 --> 01:12:01,085 You've been growing cannabis in the same area for, 1558 01:12:01,625 --> 01:12:04,405 for 10 years or whatever it was 1559 01:12:04,405 --> 01:12:05,565 at that point, probably more than that. 1560 01:12:06,025 --> 01:12:09,965 Can I take a sample and and do a psychological study of it? 1561 01:12:10,365 --> 01:12:12,685 I was like, that, that sounds amazing. That 1562 01:12:12,685 --> 01:12:13,485 - Sounds bads. Yeah. 1563 01:12:13,905 --> 01:12:16,325 - And so he got back to me about a week later 1564 01:12:17,265 --> 01:12:22,125 and he said the, um, the spores 1565 01:12:22,425 --> 01:12:27,285 of the specific, um, michal 1566 01:12:28,135 --> 01:12:29,445 fungi that have relationship 1567 01:12:29,445 --> 01:12:32,085 with cannabis are dense enough in this soil 1568 01:12:32,275 --> 01:12:35,325 that you could cut it by 10 parts 1569 01:12:35,425 --> 01:12:36,885 and sell it as an inoculate. 1570 01:12:37,265 --> 01:12:41,025 - Wow. That must afford you. That was like, I 1571 01:12:41,025 --> 01:12:42,545 - Was just like, what the heck? 1572 01:12:43,215 --> 01:12:44,225 Well, I, I didn't know. 1573 01:12:44,225 --> 01:12:47,105 And I was like, well, does that mean we're doing a good job? 1574 01:12:47,325 --> 01:12:50,425 Or that commercial inoculates are ridiculous ? 1575 01:12:50,685 --> 01:12:52,305 And he said a little of both. Right. 1576 01:12:53,935 --> 01:12:55,385 - Yeah. That, that is fantastic. 1577 01:12:55,565 --> 01:12:58,785 And to, to know that, um, that, you know, it was your, 1578 01:12:58,785 --> 01:13:00,625 your soil was that fungal rich. 1579 01:13:00,965 --> 01:13:04,425 Um, it really gives you, um, an understanding 1580 01:13:04,425 --> 01:13:06,505 that you've got like room for error, right. 1581 01:13:06,615 --> 01:13:09,705 Because you, you're not barely getting by your, 1582 01:13:09,775 --> 01:13:11,505 your soil is actually bursting. 1583 01:13:12,105 --> 01:13:13,845 - Mm-Hmm. and, 1584 01:13:13,985 --> 01:13:17,885 and you know, I, some of it, I, I think you just end up 1585 01:13:17,885 --> 01:13:19,245 with a lot of happy accidents. 1586 01:13:19,265 --> 01:13:23,885 You know? Um, like I, I have thought a lot, 1587 01:13:24,545 --> 01:13:26,605 you know, while I'm on my way to bed 1588 01:13:26,785 --> 01:13:28,205 and don't have a piece of paper 1589 01:13:28,385 --> 01:13:32,445 or things like that of, you know, the idea of of, 1590 01:13:33,185 --> 01:13:34,885 of michal relationships. 1591 01:13:35,065 --> 01:13:38,805 Now there's a difference between, um, spores 1592 01:13:39,265 --> 01:13:43,325 and active michal that, that are in the soil. 1593 01:13:43,325 --> 01:13:45,605 Mm-Hmm. . And there's active mycorrhiza on 1594 01:13:45,605 --> 01:13:46,805 the cannabis ra roots. 1595 01:13:47,715 --> 01:13:50,285 What, what makes mycorrhiza go into kind 1596 01:13:50,285 --> 01:13:54,655 of a suspended state is not having those relationships. 1597 01:13:54,755 --> 01:13:58,335 So if you go into a wintertime where your soils bear, 1598 01:13:59,155 --> 01:14:02,175 the mycorrhiza that's alive no longer is, 1599 01:14:02,175 --> 01:14:05,535 there's spores Maybe maybe it'll build up again, 1600 01:14:05,535 --> 01:14:07,735 but it'll take longer to build up again in the spring. 1601 01:14:08,235 --> 01:14:09,575 And I've, I've been curious, 1602 01:14:09,635 --> 01:14:11,725 and I actually haven't done the, the research 1603 01:14:11,725 --> 01:14:14,645 or looked at it, it's like, is there specific cover crops 1604 01:14:15,035 --> 01:14:18,565 that, that have the same michal relationships 1605 01:14:18,595 --> 01:14:22,565 with the same species as does a cannabis crop 1606 01:14:22,585 --> 01:14:24,725 or a crop you're growing for that summer so 1607 01:14:24,725 --> 01:14:27,925 that you can encourage a continuity of those species? 1608 01:14:28,395 --> 01:14:32,125 Because, you know, we see a lot of, um, you know, if you, 1609 01:14:32,145 --> 01:14:33,245 if you go on Instagram 1610 01:14:33,305 --> 01:14:35,965 and you look at people's accounts, everybody, um, 1611 01:14:36,575 --> 01:14:39,925 posts these pictures of incredible mycelium in their soil. 1612 01:14:40,025 --> 01:14:41,965 And, and a lot of those species are wonderful. 1613 01:14:41,965 --> 01:14:43,045 They're good to have in your soil. 1614 01:14:43,355 --> 01:14:47,245 They're the species that break down, um, woody material 1615 01:14:47,425 --> 01:14:49,925 or unbroken down organic matter and, 1616 01:14:50,025 --> 01:14:51,565 and provide nutrients from it. 1617 01:14:51,825 --> 01:14:55,215 But then the specific fungal mats, the 1618 01:14:56,175 --> 01:14:58,015 specific michal relationships that, 1619 01:14:58,015 --> 01:15:01,015 that directly benefit the cannabis, um, 1620 01:15:01,635 --> 01:15:03,415 in a more direct relationship way, 1621 01:15:03,595 --> 01:15:04,935 how do we keep those alive? 1622 01:15:04,955 --> 01:15:08,775 How do we proliferate those and, and are there cover crops 1623 01:15:08,875 --> 01:15:12,375 or, or perennial plantings that share enough 1624 01:15:12,375 --> 01:15:16,935 of the same species to be able to be the, the kind 1625 01:15:16,935 --> 01:15:18,255 of safe space for, 1626 01:15:18,435 --> 01:15:20,935 for those living species to, to over winter? 1627 01:15:21,495 --> 01:15:23,735 - Hmm. Yeah. 'cause you don't, you don't want the, the, 1628 01:15:23,735 --> 01:15:26,895 the really beneficial ones for can cannabis like intercedes 1629 01:15:26,895 --> 01:15:29,695 to suddenly be outcompeted by like, um, 1630 01:15:30,005 --> 01:15:32,135 wood digesters, uh, uh, only you 1631 01:15:32,135 --> 01:15:33,135 - Know. 1632 01:15:33,135 --> 01:15:36,215 Exactly. And and that's mostly what you see, like, no, 1633 01:15:36,275 --> 01:15:37,335 no shade on anyone. 1634 01:15:37,535 --> 01:15:40,615 I, I love posting pictures of, of all my, you know, 1635 01:15:41,035 --> 01:15:42,455 michal mats when I find them, 1636 01:15:42,475 --> 01:15:44,855 but almost always it's wood digesters. 1637 01:15:44,855 --> 01:15:47,015 Yeah. Whether it's, you know, wine caps or, 1638 01:15:47,835 --> 01:15:50,895 or the safaria kind of mushrooms. 1639 01:15:51,435 --> 01:15:53,095 Um, that that's what you see a lot 1640 01:15:53,095 --> 01:15:57,045 because there, there, the way we're gardening the way we're, 1641 01:15:57,045 --> 01:15:59,125 we're doing things, whether it's through Hugo beds 1642 01:15:59,125 --> 01:16:03,005 or through a lot of, uh, of addition of carbon in the form 1643 01:16:03,005 --> 01:16:06,205 of mulch really favors the wood digesters. Yeah. 1644 01:16:06,895 --> 01:16:08,605 - Right on. Alright, so let's go ahead 1645 01:16:08,605 --> 01:16:10,245 and take our second, uh, short break. 1646 01:16:10,295 --> 01:16:12,685 We'll be right back. You are listening to Shaping Fire 1647 01:16:12,745 --> 01:16:15,405 and my guest today is regenerative farmer Daniel Stein. 1648 01:16:18,265 --> 01:16:20,805 You've heard me talk about the award-winning cannabis seeds 1649 01:16:20,805 --> 01:16:23,525 that come from the analytical breeding program of Seth 1650 01:16:23,525 --> 01:16:26,525 and Eric Crawford, who founded Oregon CBD Seeds. 1651 01:16:26,665 --> 01:16:30,165 In fact, Seth was a guest on shaping fire in 2020 1652 01:16:30,505 --> 01:16:32,285 to talk about Triplo genetics. 1653 01:16:33,325 --> 01:16:36,045 Seth and Eric are now releasing high THC Seeds 1654 01:16:36,045 --> 01:16:37,325 for Home Growers and farms 1655 01:16:37,465 --> 01:16:42,125 as grow the revolution seeds@gtrseeds.com. 1656 01:16:42,975 --> 01:16:46,125 Their high THC seeds are extraordinary in 1657 01:16:46,125 --> 01:16:48,325 that they will start to flower at 16 1658 01:16:48,345 --> 01:16:51,805 and a half hours of daylight instead of the typical 14 1659 01:16:51,805 --> 01:16:53,045 and a half hours of daylight. 1660 01:16:53,395 --> 01:16:56,245 That means in most regions, your plants will start 1661 01:16:56,245 --> 01:16:59,565 to flower outdoors in the middle of July instead 1662 01:16:59,565 --> 01:17:00,685 of the middle of August, 1663 01:17:00,975 --> 01:17:03,965 which means these photo period plants finish in September 1664 01:17:04,305 --> 01:17:07,045 and not October totally upending the 1665 01:17:07,045 --> 01:17:08,285 photo period seed market. 1666 01:17:09,365 --> 01:17:12,845 Seth and Eric took their prized early flowering CBG line 1667 01:17:13,065 --> 01:17:14,085 and bred it to some 1668 01:17:14,085 --> 01:17:16,885 of the most desired verified genetics out there, 1669 01:17:17,035 --> 01:17:20,245 including Sour diesel, triangle Kush, wedding cake, 1670 01:17:20,685 --> 01:17:22,005 chem dogs, Skittles, and others. 1671 01:17:22,455 --> 01:17:23,925 These crosses all express 1672 01:17:24,445 --> 01:17:26,405 powerful photo period terpene profiles. 1673 01:17:26,405 --> 01:17:28,885 And THC giving you a great high 1674 01:17:29,845 --> 01:17:34,605 GTR seeds has a new THCV line with plants like Double Durban 1675 01:17:34,605 --> 01:17:38,965 and Gigantor that boast one-to-one THC to THCV. 1676 01:17:39,305 --> 01:17:43,565 And people want that. T-H-C-V-G-T-R seeds are very 1677 01:17:43,565 --> 01:17:48,125 consistent, true growing inbred F ones from stabilized 1678 01:17:48,345 --> 01:17:49,405 inbred parent lines. 1679 01:17:49,815 --> 01:17:52,125 These seeds are nearly homogenous 1680 01:17:52,305 --> 01:17:54,245 and the plants should all grow the same. 1681 01:17:54,575 --> 01:17:58,045 There is only one phenotype in every pack available 1682 01:17:58,185 --> 01:17:59,685 as Diploids and Triploids. 1683 01:18:00,445 --> 01:18:03,125 Seth and Eric's company is still family owned, patient 1684 01:18:03,225 --> 01:18:04,285 and employee centric, 1685 01:18:04,505 --> 01:18:07,445 and partially powered by their two acres of solar panels. 1686 01:18:08,365 --> 01:18:10,685 Everyone can purchase these seeds in the entire catalog 1687 01:18:10,865 --> 01:18:15,085 of Oregon CBD seeds@gtrseeds.com. 1688 01:18:15,585 --> 01:18:17,725 Go to gtr seeds.com today 1689 01:18:17,985 --> 01:18:19,485 and choose something revolutionary 1690 01:18:19,485 --> 01:18:21,365 for your next indoor or outdoor run. 1691 01:18:24,215 --> 01:18:26,725 After you've caught up on the latest shaping fire episodes, 1692 01:18:26,725 --> 01:18:28,325 do you sometimes wish there was more cannabis 1693 01:18:28,325 --> 01:18:29,645 education available to learn? 1694 01:18:29,835 --> 01:18:32,765 Well, we got you. Shaping Fire has a fabulous YouTube 1695 01:18:32,765 --> 01:18:34,765 channel with content not found on the podcast. 1696 01:18:35,315 --> 01:18:37,005 When I attend conventions to speak 1697 01:18:37,005 --> 01:18:38,605 or moderate panels, I always record them 1698 01:18:38,605 --> 01:18:40,445 and bring the content home for you to watch. 1699 01:18:41,185 --> 01:18:44,045 The Shingo Los YouTube channel has world class speakers, 1700 01:18:44,045 --> 01:18:45,725 including Zoe Sigmund's lecture, 1701 01:18:45,725 --> 01:18:48,965 understanding Your Endocannabinoid System, Kevin Jori 1702 01:18:48,965 --> 01:18:51,205 of Wonderland Nursery, talking about breeding cannabis 1703 01:18:51,225 --> 01:18:52,565 for the best terpene profile. 1704 01:18:52,995 --> 01:18:55,845 Frenchy Cannolis Lost Art of the Hasian presentation. 1705 01:18:56,605 --> 01:18:57,965 Nicholas Mahmud on Regenerative 1706 01:18:57,965 --> 01:19:00,205 and Polyculture cannabis growing Dr. 1707 01:19:00,375 --> 01:19:01,725 Sunil Agrawal on the history 1708 01:19:01,725 --> 01:19:03,205 of cannabis medicine around the world. 1709 01:19:03,635 --> 01:19:07,205 Eric Roski and Josh Rutherford on Solventless Extraction 1710 01:19:07,465 --> 01:19:09,685 and Jeff Lowenfels on the Soil Food Web. 1711 01:19:10,055 --> 01:19:12,805 There are several presentations from Dr. Ethan Russo on 1712 01:19:12,925 --> 01:19:14,485 terpenes and the endocannabinoid system too. 1713 01:19:14,975 --> 01:19:18,045 While there, be sure to check out the three 10 Part Shaping 1714 01:19:18,115 --> 01:19:21,325 Fire Session series one with Kevin Jori, one 1715 01:19:21,325 --> 01:19:23,885 with Dr. Ethan Russo and one with Jeff Lowenfels. 1716 01:19:24,225 --> 01:19:26,085 And even my own presentations on how 1717 01:19:26,085 --> 01:19:28,085 to approach finding your dream job in cannabis 1718 01:19:28,345 --> 01:19:30,085 and why we choose cannabis business, 1719 01:19:30,155 --> 01:19:32,645 even though the risks are so high as of today, 1720 01:19:32,645 --> 01:19:34,845 there's over 200 videos that you can check out for free. 1721 01:19:35,385 --> 01:19:38,525 So go to youtube.com/shang los 1722 01:19:38,625 --> 01:19:40,125 or click on the link in the newsletter. 1723 01:19:43,165 --> 01:19:45,585 One of the challenges with buying auto flower seeds is 1724 01:19:45,585 --> 01:19:47,825 that often you'll have as many different FENOs 1725 01:19:47,825 --> 01:19:51,145 as you'll have seeds in a pack that can be fun, sure. 1726 01:19:51,205 --> 01:19:54,185 But so many varieties in one pack is a sign 1727 01:19:54,185 --> 01:19:56,985 of an immature seed line that hasn't been worked enough. 1728 01:19:58,105 --> 01:20:00,265 I prefer my auto flowers to be worked enough 1729 01:20:00,265 --> 01:20:03,105 that each pheno in the pack really captures the aspects 1730 01:20:03,105 --> 01:20:04,345 that the breeder was intending. 1731 01:20:05,325 --> 01:20:08,565 This is why I recommend Gnome Automatics to my friends 1732 01:20:08,565 --> 01:20:11,445 and listeners who grow automatic flowering cannabis seeds, 1733 01:20:12,375 --> 01:20:15,085 gnome automatic seeds are not just crossed and released. 1734 01:20:15,515 --> 01:20:17,565 They are painstakingly sifted again 1735 01:20:17,565 --> 01:20:20,285 and again tested in a wide range of conditions 1736 01:20:20,585 --> 01:20:22,325 and taken to a level of maturity 1737 01:20:22,325 --> 01:20:26,445 that each plant will be recognizable by its traits, traits 1738 01:20:26,445 --> 01:20:27,765 that were hard earned so 1739 01:20:27,765 --> 01:20:29,925 that you can have your best growth cycle ever 1740 01:20:30,915 --> 01:20:32,165 over the last 10 years. 1741 01:20:32,635 --> 01:20:35,845 Nome Automatics founder Dan Jimmy has become a trusted 1742 01:20:35,915 --> 01:20:38,045 breeder and he continues to pour his passion 1743 01:20:38,045 --> 01:20:40,365 of breeding cannabis into every variety he 1744 01:20:40,365 --> 01:20:41,485 releases for you to grow. 1745 01:20:42,735 --> 01:20:46,085 Check out the automatics Instagram at no 1746 01:20:47,175 --> 01:20:50,205 automatics to see the impressive plants folks are growing. 1747 01:20:51,305 --> 01:20:54,005 You can score no automatic seeds in feminized 1748 01:20:54,025 --> 01:20:56,925 or regular at your favorite seed provider listed in the 1749 01:20:56,925 --> 01:20:58,285 vendor section of their website. 1750 01:20:58,935 --> 01:21:01,765 Commercial cannabis farms across the country love growing 1751 01:21:01,815 --> 01:21:02,965 gnome automatics 1752 01:21:02,965 --> 01:21:05,685 because of their consistency from seed to seed. 1753 01:21:06,215 --> 01:21:10,645 Short grow times THC percentages and colorful bag appeal. 1754 01:21:11,415 --> 01:21:13,045 Farms interested in bulk seeds 1755 01:21:13,045 --> 01:21:14,925 of more than a thousand should reach out 1756 01:21:14,925 --> 01:21:17,085 through gnome automatics.com. 1757 01:21:18,255 --> 01:21:19,685 While on the website, be sure 1758 01:21:19,685 --> 01:21:21,925 to check out the gnome automatic shirts 1759 01:21:21,925 --> 01:21:23,285 and other merch section two. 1760 01:21:24,105 --> 01:21:27,365 If you want reliable Seeds, hand built from effort, 1761 01:21:27,665 --> 01:21:31,845 expert selection and experience, choose gnome automatics. 1762 01:21:32,525 --> 01:21:34,615 Welcome back. You are listening to Shaping Fire. 1763 01:21:34,815 --> 01:21:36,215 I am your host sheo, 1764 01:21:36,235 --> 01:21:39,855 and today my guest is Regenerative Farmer Daniel Stein. 1765 01:21:40,475 --> 01:21:42,935 So Daniel, during this last section, I want to talk about, 1766 01:21:43,035 --> 01:21:47,415 um, some macro ideas, um, around land management and, 1767 01:21:47,415 --> 01:21:48,975 and let's start with crop rotation. 1768 01:21:49,475 --> 01:21:52,175 Um, you know, we talked a lot during the first set about, 1769 01:21:52,475 --> 01:21:56,015 um, the, the joy of planning the farm and, 1770 01:21:56,115 --> 01:21:58,615 and how that plan can evolve over the years. 1771 01:21:59,315 --> 01:22:00,815 And you know, that you don't have 1772 01:22:00,815 --> 01:22:02,215 to do everything the first year. 1773 01:22:02,755 --> 01:22:04,575 Um, but you know, one of the challenges 1774 01:22:04,575 --> 01:22:07,015 that people get into is they really kind of fall in love 1775 01:22:07,205 --> 01:22:10,655 with their farm design and, and where things go. 1776 01:22:10,715 --> 01:22:12,615 And so everything has a place, but, 1777 01:22:12,635 --> 01:22:15,695 but as regenerative farmers, we also know the benefit 1778 01:22:15,805 --> 01:22:17,855 that comes from crop rotation. 1779 01:22:18,395 --> 01:22:20,735 So we're not trying to feed the same crop 1780 01:22:20,735 --> 01:22:22,415 with the same soil all the time, 1781 01:22:22,875 --> 01:22:26,815 but gosh, um, it's really easy to not rotate, um, crops. 1782 01:22:27,195 --> 01:22:30,575 Um, different farmers I've spoken to will either rotate 1783 01:22:30,595 --> 01:22:32,255 and some will be like, well, I just choose 1784 01:22:32,255 --> 01:22:33,655 to amend and not rotate. 1785 01:22:34,355 --> 01:22:36,055 Um, I'd like to hear what your thoughts are. 1786 01:22:37,435 --> 01:22:40,095 - Um, I think my thoughts on this is, is do 1787 01:22:40,095 --> 01:22:43,735 what you can see, see where rotations are important for you 1788 01:22:44,155 --> 01:22:45,455 and, and where they aren't. 1789 01:22:46,035 --> 01:22:48,975 Um, and sometimes it, it's self-limiting. 1790 01:22:49,715 --> 01:22:52,655 For instance, with cannabis, we couldn't rotate 1791 01:22:52,655 --> 01:22:55,775 because we had such a hard time explaining 1792 01:22:55,835 --> 01:22:59,215 to the regulatory agencies what crop rotation is, 1793 01:22:59,355 --> 01:23:01,175 and we didn't feel like redrawing 1794 01:23:01,175 --> 01:23:02,775 and resubmitting our maps every year. 1795 01:23:02,915 --> 01:23:04,695 Oh. Um, and 1796 01:23:05,145 --> 01:23:10,125 but what's interesting is that led us to a discovery, 1797 01:23:10,295 --> 01:23:12,685 which is that I think cannabis likes 1798 01:23:12,905 --> 01:23:14,405 to grow in the same spot. 1799 01:23:15,225 --> 01:23:18,325 And when I started thinking about it and, 1800 01:23:18,625 --> 01:23:21,565 and imagining cannabis growing in the wild, you know, 1801 01:23:21,565 --> 01:23:26,525 like a ditch weed, for instance, cannabis produces a ton 1802 01:23:26,525 --> 01:23:30,445 of seeds that fall right there and, and regrow right there. 1803 01:23:31,305 --> 01:23:35,285 Um, so I think cannabis as a plant is used to growing 1804 01:23:36,065 --> 01:23:38,685 in its own shadow, I guess you would say. 1805 01:23:39,305 --> 01:23:42,845 Um, and, you know, that doesn't change the fact 1806 01:23:42,845 --> 01:23:45,365 that crop rotation can reduce pest pressure, 1807 01:23:45,365 --> 01:23:47,925 especially pests that tend to over winter in the soil 1808 01:23:48,705 --> 01:23:50,725 or things like that, or wouldn't be beneficial. 1809 01:23:51,585 --> 01:23:56,285 But I, I think for us, for our different crops, 1810 01:23:56,285 --> 01:24:00,965 we weighed the benefit of crop rotation versus the challenge 1811 01:24:00,965 --> 01:24:04,765 of crop rotation and decide individually on each thing. 1812 01:24:05,225 --> 01:24:07,765 Um, you know, for instance, in our vegetable farm, 1813 01:24:08,745 --> 01:24:12,005 we have a block that is lettuce production 1814 01:24:12,315 --> 01:24:13,445 that we don't rotate 1815 01:24:13,445 --> 01:24:15,805 because the infrastructure that it takes for us 1816 01:24:15,825 --> 01:24:19,645 to have year round lettuce production in this hot arid 1817 01:24:19,645 --> 01:24:22,605 climate doesn't lend itself well to rotation. 1818 01:24:23,145 --> 01:24:25,765 And lettuce doesn't seem to be a problem in terms 1819 01:24:25,785 --> 01:24:27,605 of nutrient use or pest. 1820 01:24:27,625 --> 01:24:32,165 And with rotation things like, um, garlic 1821 01:24:32,345 --> 01:24:34,645 and tomatoes and carrots, we tend to rotate 1822 01:24:34,645 --> 01:24:38,365 and primarily are rotation for those isn't nutrient based. 1823 01:24:38,605 --> 01:24:39,725 'cause we are so well 1824 01:24:39,925 --> 01:24:41,445 provided with nutrients through compost. 1825 01:24:41,905 --> 01:24:46,125 Our rotation tends to be what crops do a good job 1826 01:24:46,945 --> 01:24:50,565 of reducing weed pressure for the next crop. 1827 01:24:50,565 --> 01:24:52,685 That doesn't do well with the weed pressure. 1828 01:24:52,755 --> 01:24:56,685 Like for instance, carrots might come after zucchini 1829 01:24:56,805 --> 01:25:00,805 because zucchini reduced the, the seed bank of weeds 1830 01:25:01,625 --> 01:25:04,125 in that area, and then carrots can come 1831 01:25:04,125 --> 01:25:06,085 after them and things like that. 1832 01:25:06,265 --> 01:25:09,525 So, uh, it's one of those things, uh, cover 1833 01:25:10,275 --> 01:25:13,565 it's more important to plant stuff and, 1834 01:25:13,565 --> 01:25:16,765 and get it in the ground than to get it just right 1835 01:25:17,395 --> 01:25:21,525 because, um, at the end of the day, you'd rather have a, a, 1836 01:25:22,065 --> 01:25:24,005 you know, carrot that's not perfect than not 1837 01:25:24,005 --> 01:25:25,125 to have any carrots, . 1838 01:25:25,705 --> 01:25:28,325 Um, and it's similar to how I feel about, 1839 01:25:28,425 --> 01:25:29,845 uh, planting with moon cycles. 1840 01:25:29,845 --> 01:25:32,125 Like plant it out, try to plant with the moon cycles. 1841 01:25:32,125 --> 01:25:34,925 If you don't miss it, if you miss it, don't wait a month 1842 01:25:35,545 --> 01:25:38,605 to plant again, because it's better 1843 01:25:38,605 --> 01:25:40,805 to have it growing a month than to 1844 01:25:40,825 --> 01:25:43,645 to hit it on exactly the energetic cycle. 1845 01:25:44,465 --> 01:25:46,445 Um, that, 1846 01:25:46,675 --> 01:25:48,085 - That bit that you said about do your best. 1847 01:25:48,255 --> 01:25:50,445 Right on. Do your best. That's good theme for today. 1848 01:25:50,745 --> 01:25:53,605 You know, that, you kind of blew my mind at the, at the top 1849 01:25:53,605 --> 01:25:56,365 of your answer when you, when you pointed out that 1850 01:25:57,125 --> 01:26:00,005 cannabis seeds when mature are pushed out of the flour 1851 01:26:00,005 --> 01:26:02,125 and just dropped to the ground at its own feet 1852 01:26:02,185 --> 01:26:04,685 and start next year's plants right there at its feet, 1853 01:26:04,985 --> 01:26:06,245 you know, they're, they're, they're not, 1854 01:26:06,245 --> 01:26:07,885 they're not air distributed. 1855 01:26:08,145 --> 01:26:10,925 And, and while, while they could be distributed by birds, 1856 01:26:10,925 --> 01:26:12,525 that's, that's really not their main 1857 01:26:12,525 --> 01:26:13,685 shtick, they really are. 1858 01:26:13,705 --> 01:26:14,845 - No birds crack 'em open 1859 01:26:15,385 --> 01:26:16,385 - And then there you go. 1860 01:26:16,505 --> 01:26:18,485 So, so they don't even, they don't even survive the process. 1861 01:26:18,865 --> 01:26:22,845 So, um, yeah, that, that really kind of sets crop rotation 1862 01:26:22,945 --> 01:26:24,965 for cannabis in my head in a totally, 1863 01:26:25,225 --> 01:26:26,485 in a totally different realm. 1864 01:26:26,885 --> 01:26:30,165 I, uh, I'm already envisioning the, the next time I talk 1865 01:26:30,165 --> 01:26:34,365 to a microbiologist about the difference between, um, 1866 01:26:34,505 --> 01:26:38,645 the root structures of, of, of plants that need to be cover 1867 01:26:38,705 --> 01:26:42,005 or not cover crop need to be rotated versus ones who don't. 1868 01:26:42,005 --> 01:26:43,285 Because I'm sure 1869 01:26:43,315 --> 01:26:46,565 that life in the rhizosphere is entirely different 1870 01:26:46,585 --> 01:26:49,245 for plants that are, are built 1871 01:26:49,465 --> 01:26:51,205 to be the same location every year. 1872 01:26:51,915 --> 01:26:55,205 - Yeah. And, and that microrisal relationship is there too. 1873 01:26:55,275 --> 01:26:59,285 It's like the roots of the previous year are there with all 1874 01:26:59,285 --> 01:27:02,605 of its microbiology while you plant the next year. 1875 01:27:02,675 --> 01:27:05,285 - Yeah. And they must have very burly exudates too. 1876 01:27:06,105 --> 01:27:08,605 - I'd imagine so. Yeah, sure. It does seem like it. Yeah. 1877 01:27:08,735 --> 01:27:11,325 - Right on. So, so let's, let's talk about another variety 1878 01:27:11,425 --> 01:27:13,325 of land management other than crop rotation. 1879 01:27:13,825 --> 01:27:16,925 So, you know, we, we've been talking about different parts 1880 01:27:17,265 --> 01:27:19,165 of your parcel and how they relate, 1881 01:27:19,505 --> 01:27:22,245 but really if we, if we pull the, pull the camera out, 1882 01:27:22,475 --> 01:27:26,485 your whole whole parcel is one big, um, 1883 01:27:27,395 --> 01:27:29,445 land mass of growing as well. 1884 01:27:29,985 --> 01:27:33,645 Um, what kinds of forward thinking, big picture 1885 01:27:34,635 --> 01:27:37,925 land management do you use on the parcel as a whole? 1886 01:27:38,065 --> 01:27:39,845 I'm thinking stuff like controlled burns 1887 01:27:39,845 --> 01:27:41,165 and things like that that can 1888 01:27:41,765 --> 01:27:43,365 regenerate the property itself. 1889 01:27:44,155 --> 01:27:46,765 - Yeah, exactly. Um, so 1890 01:27:47,585 --> 01:27:52,325 our homestead is perhaps five to 10 acres of, 1891 01:27:52,465 --> 01:27:53,605 of the overall parcel. 1892 01:27:53,745 --> 01:27:56,085 And we're on 170 acres. 1893 01:27:56,795 --> 01:28:00,605 Most of it is forested and relatively steep. 1894 01:28:01,465 --> 01:28:06,185 Um, and here in, in northern California, 1895 01:28:06,605 --> 01:28:09,785 our, our native forest environment has been very affected 1896 01:28:09,925 --> 01:28:13,025 by, by extractive land management 1897 01:28:13,285 --> 01:28:18,065 and the exclusion, uh, of native cultural land management. 1898 01:28:18,865 --> 01:28:22,845 Um, so when we're looking at the overall property, 1899 01:28:22,855 --> 01:28:25,885 we're trying to understand how we take it from this state 1900 01:28:25,885 --> 01:28:29,485 where it's out of balance because, uh, of logging 1901 01:28:29,545 --> 01:28:30,845 and fire suppression 1902 01:28:31,425 --> 01:28:33,885 and get it back into its natural balance, which 1903 01:28:34,225 --> 01:28:38,005 for this area is, is a natural fire regimen 1904 01:28:38,625 --> 01:28:42,925 and more of an old growth, less, less trees, more space 1905 01:28:42,925 --> 01:28:44,925 between the trees, more biodiversity. 1906 01:28:45,785 --> 01:28:48,645 Um, so yeah, we're, we're looking intensely at that. 1907 01:28:48,695 --> 01:28:53,125 We've, we've partnered with, um, some local nonprofits 1908 01:28:53,125 --> 01:28:55,365 that work on, on watershed restoration. 1909 01:28:55,415 --> 01:28:58,845 We're doing some big in-depth studies of, of 1910 01:28:59,025 --> 01:29:03,125 how groundwater moves through the, the soil here. 1911 01:29:03,315 --> 01:29:07,285 Basically in this area, geologically, we have a, 1912 01:29:07,565 --> 01:29:11,885 a bedrock layer that's relatively impenetrable 1913 01:29:12,065 --> 01:29:13,445 by water on a lot of it, 1914 01:29:13,785 --> 01:29:16,485 and then a 20 to 30 foot deep 1915 01:29:17,155 --> 01:29:19,725 soil sponge on top of that. 1916 01:29:20,505 --> 01:29:23,285 And, and, um, we don't have aquifers. 1917 01:29:23,465 --> 01:29:27,005 Our summertime water is the water that slowly moves through 1918 01:29:27,005 --> 01:29:29,405 that sponge from, from the ridges down 1919 01:29:29,405 --> 01:29:31,285 to the creeks and out. 1920 01:29:31,385 --> 01:29:34,005 So where we have groundwater wells, where we're studying 1921 01:29:34,525 --> 01:29:38,045 infiltration from rain, how long it stays in the soil, 1922 01:29:38,095 --> 01:29:39,925 where it moves through the watershed. 1923 01:29:40,265 --> 01:29:43,205 And then we're gonna be doing some, some, um, 1924 01:29:43,345 --> 01:29:46,925 forest restoration work, thinning and living and, 1925 01:29:47,025 --> 01:29:49,085 and just kind of every 1926 01:29:50,325 --> 01:29:52,685 bringing it back into balance forest restoration work we 1927 01:29:52,685 --> 01:29:54,165 could do in that area, and seeing how 1928 01:29:54,165 --> 01:29:58,925 that changes the water flow through that watershed. 1929 01:29:59,875 --> 01:30:01,295 And then moving on 1930 01:30:01,785 --> 01:30:04,015 after we get to study that for a couple of years 1931 01:30:04,155 --> 01:30:06,935 to doing a prescribed fire in that area 1932 01:30:07,475 --> 01:30:10,175 and seeing how that affects water infiltration 1933 01:30:10,355 --> 01:30:12,575 and does it affect the pH of the groundwater 1934 01:30:12,755 --> 01:30:15,175 and how does that change the soil structure, 1935 01:30:15,715 --> 01:30:16,815 uh, and things like that. 1936 01:30:16,955 --> 01:30:20,215 So that's kind of the long range is looking towards 1937 01:30:20,395 --> 01:30:23,255 how we get this large parcel back to a place 1938 01:30:23,255 --> 01:30:26,415 where we can manage it through the use 1939 01:30:26,415 --> 01:30:27,975 of prescribed natural fire. 1940 01:30:28,835 --> 01:30:30,615 And then also 1941 01:30:31,005 --> 01:30:34,335 what land management techniques can use on a closer level. 1942 01:30:34,355 --> 01:30:36,535 And that's where things like the goats come in, they're kind 1943 01:30:36,535 --> 01:30:40,815 of like a biological fire where they consume a lot 1944 01:30:40,815 --> 01:30:44,855 of the biomass around, around our area and keep it down. 1945 01:30:44,955 --> 01:30:48,255 So, so not only does it get into a better balance, 1946 01:30:48,315 --> 01:30:49,815 but it keeps us fire safe. 1947 01:30:49,875 --> 01:30:52,135 We, we are in a, a fire prone environment and 1948 01:30:52,335 --> 01:30:56,055 because of this out of balance with fire that we have, 1949 01:30:56,475 --> 01:30:58,055 it is, um, it, 1950 01:30:58,085 --> 01:30:59,855 it's very catastrophic when it happens, 1951 01:31:00,035 --> 01:31:01,055 as we all know. Yeah. 1952 01:31:01,995 --> 01:31:03,775 - Um, you know, the way 1953 01:31:03,775 --> 01:31:06,975 that you talk about these bigger projects, which, um, 1954 01:31:07,165 --> 01:31:10,055 it's amazing that you are able to find time 1955 01:31:10,115 --> 01:31:13,975 or create time to do something that, that, that is that big 1956 01:31:14,115 --> 01:31:18,615 and future minded versus just the daily demands 1957 01:31:18,835 --> 01:31:23,335 of a farm, but really that extra effort that you put in it, 1958 01:31:23,365 --> 01:31:26,055 it's, it's like the farming, um, equivalent 1959 01:31:26,055 --> 01:31:27,255 of generational wealth. 1960 01:31:27,675 --> 01:31:29,775 You know, it's like, it's like you're, 1961 01:31:29,775 --> 01:31:33,055 you're doing these studies and you're learning how, how the, 1962 01:31:33,155 --> 01:31:37,015 the, the farm, uh, parcel will be, will be better over time 1963 01:31:37,565 --> 01:31:38,895 with your eye on 20 1964 01:31:38,995 --> 01:31:42,295 and 30 years out so that the, you know, 1965 01:31:42,295 --> 01:31:45,215 you can be a participant in the evolution of the nature 1966 01:31:45,315 --> 01:31:48,695 around you, but also that, um, 1967 01:31:49,125 --> 01:31:54,015 your farm has got a reliable backbone, uh, 1968 01:31:54,995 --> 01:31:56,815 you know, in in case in case your, 1969 01:31:56,815 --> 01:31:59,325 your kids wanna take it over in time or something like that. 1970 01:31:59,595 --> 01:32:01,165 Yeah. And I think that's, I think 1971 01:32:01,165 --> 01:32:03,965 that's philosophically really, uh, important 1972 01:32:04,265 --> 01:32:05,965 to regenerative farming and, and, 1973 01:32:06,025 --> 01:32:07,605 and often given short shrift. 1974 01:32:08,235 --> 01:32:10,325 - Well, and, and land ownership is funny. 1975 01:32:10,435 --> 01:32:12,605 It's like, um, you know, I'm here now. 1976 01:32:12,605 --> 01:32:13,765 Maybe my kids will be here. 1977 01:32:13,765 --> 01:32:16,645 Maybe they won't, but this land will be here either way. 1978 01:32:16,865 --> 01:32:20,085 Mm-Hmm. And in terms of like, time to do this, I'm, 1979 01:32:20,145 --> 01:32:21,245 I'm super fortunate. 1980 01:32:21,605 --> 01:32:23,645 I, I have great partnerships. 1981 01:32:24,065 --> 01:32:26,525 Um, I am do some grant writing, 1982 01:32:26,585 --> 01:32:28,685 but I'm working with local nonprofits 1983 01:32:28,685 --> 01:32:31,005 that are doing the grant writing, actually doing the work, 1984 01:32:31,065 --> 01:32:32,605 and I'm just coordinating with them 1985 01:32:32,665 --> 01:32:34,445 to see that it's happening. Oh, that's 1986 01:32:34,445 --> 01:32:35,445 - Great. 1987 01:32:37,155 --> 01:32:39,055 Um, so it's wonderful having people like 1988 01:32:39,055 --> 01:32:40,735 that working on your behalf, . 1989 01:32:41,285 --> 01:32:42,775 - Yeah, it's incredible. 1990 01:32:42,835 --> 01:32:45,655 And you know, to some degree it's the openness to it 1991 01:32:45,715 --> 01:32:50,175 and the, the the engaging in the community constantly in 1992 01:32:50,175 --> 01:32:54,455 these spheres of, you know, a a a big part here. 1993 01:32:54,855 --> 01:32:58,935 A as the, the economy is shifting here as, 1994 01:32:58,995 --> 01:33:00,975 as cannabis economy has changed 1995 01:33:00,995 --> 01:33:02,935 and gotten integrated into this larger 1996 01:33:03,555 --> 01:33:05,135 broken economy. Oh, good. 1997 01:33:05,135 --> 01:33:08,095 - Saying it's shifting is like the, the, the, 1998 01:33:08,275 --> 01:33:11,655 the nicest possible way to put what's going on around you. 1999 01:33:12,245 --> 01:33:14,895 - Yeah. I mean, think it, it's, honestly, 2000 01:33:15,285 --> 01:33:16,375 it's coming into balance, 2001 01:33:16,515 --> 01:33:18,335 but unfortunately it's coming into balance 2002 01:33:18,335 --> 01:33:19,775 with a broken system. Yeah, 2003 01:33:19,955 --> 01:33:20,955 - It sure is. 2004 01:33:20,955 --> 01:33:22,655 - And that's, that's kind of the way it goes. 2005 01:33:22,795 --> 01:33:27,375 But one of the economies that is starting to take some of 2006 01:33:27,375 --> 01:33:31,575 that, um, burden is, is the restoration economy. 2007 01:33:31,645 --> 01:33:35,175 What we have here is an incredible amount of, 2008 01:33:35,235 --> 01:33:37,975 of beautiful forested land in our area, 2009 01:33:38,875 --> 01:33:41,135 and it, it needs work, 2010 01:33:41,195 --> 01:33:43,855 it needs restoration if we're gonna have healthy fisheries, 2011 01:33:43,855 --> 01:33:46,415 if we're gonna be a fire safe community, et cetera. 2012 01:33:47,035 --> 01:33:48,935 - So, um, you kind of set me up perfectly. 2013 01:33:48,935 --> 01:33:51,775 These next two questions are, uh, economics based. 2014 01:33:52,315 --> 01:33:54,615 And the first one is, um, uh, you know, 2015 01:33:54,615 --> 01:33:57,055 what is the economic impact of switching 2016 01:33:57,055 --> 01:33:58,335 to regenerative farming? 2017 01:33:58,875 --> 01:34:01,415 You know, on a small farm, you know, you weren't, 2018 01:34:01,415 --> 01:34:03,895 you weren't petroleum based to begin with, so it wasn't 2019 01:34:03,895 --> 01:34:07,135 that much of a swing, but, um, you certainly stopped, 2020 01:34:07,395 --> 01:34:08,695 you know, double digging and, 2021 01:34:08,695 --> 01:34:12,255 and other, uh, potentially laborious, uh, practices, 2022 01:34:12,255 --> 01:34:13,695 but you probably also traded those 2023 01:34:13,755 --> 01:34:15,455 for other laborious practices. 2024 01:34:16,315 --> 01:34:19,575 And, and okay, you're, you're saving money on, on a lot 2025 01:34:19,575 --> 01:34:21,935 of inputs that a non regenerative farm 2026 01:34:22,025 --> 01:34:23,255 would be buying in town. 2027 01:34:23,755 --> 01:34:26,655 But then, but then you also have to buy materials 2028 01:34:26,655 --> 01:34:28,095 to do other types of projects. 2029 01:34:28,255 --> 01:34:29,775 There's like all of these, uh, 2030 01:34:29,775 --> 01:34:31,575 trade offs in both directions. 2031 01:34:32,315 --> 01:34:37,215 And so, um, so for regenerative farming, I think 2032 01:34:38,485 --> 01:34:42,575 incorrectly is, is assumed to be so much more expensive 2033 01:34:42,575 --> 01:34:46,295 to do because you don't get to use the shortcuts of, of, 2034 01:34:46,555 --> 01:34:48,775 of modern farming, which is also happens 2035 01:34:48,795 --> 01:34:50,015 to be poisoning everybody. 2036 01:34:50,475 --> 01:34:53,695 So I'd just like to hear, um, how you, how you kind 2037 01:34:53,695 --> 01:34:57,685 of like weigh it out about the, the economic impact, um, 2038 01:34:57,865 --> 01:35:01,485 for you specifically on regenerative farming, regarding some 2039 01:35:01,485 --> 01:35:03,205 of the other options that you have in front of you. 2040 01:35:04,585 --> 01:35:09,025 - Yeah, I, I mean, I think for the options I have in front 2041 01:35:09,025 --> 01:35:11,225 of me, regenerative farming is by far 2042 01:35:11,925 --> 01:35:13,585 the most economically feasible. 2043 01:35:13,935 --> 01:35:16,785 It's like when you align your values 2044 01:35:17,085 --> 01:35:20,665 and your goals with what naturally wants to happen anyway, 2045 01:35:21,485 --> 01:35:23,385 you are not needing the products 2046 01:35:24,325 --> 01:35:28,065 and the, the physical energy to fight against the flow, 2047 01:35:29,165 --> 01:35:31,225 um, on a larger scale. 2048 01:35:31,735 --> 01:35:36,025 Yeah. Industrial farming benefits from economies of scale. 2049 01:35:36,085 --> 01:35:38,705 And that's something that's, that's hard to do on our level 2050 01:35:38,925 --> 01:35:40,025 of regenerative farming. 2051 01:35:40,225 --> 01:35:44,745 I know there is regenerative farming at scale, um, that 2052 01:35:44,775 --> 01:35:46,385 that does take advantage of some 2053 01:35:46,385 --> 01:35:47,425 of those economies of scale. 2054 01:35:47,485 --> 01:35:50,345 But I wouldn't have an economy of scale in our type of farm, 2055 01:35:51,855 --> 01:35:55,105 even if I were to spray poison on everything 2056 01:35:55,105 --> 01:35:57,145 and rode to till the crap out of it . 2057 01:35:57,525 --> 01:35:58,985 Um, you know, 2058 01:35:59,125 --> 01:36:02,755 and when it comes down to it, it's like it has 2059 01:36:02,755 --> 01:36:06,035 to work economically if you're doing it as a business, 2060 01:36:06,035 --> 01:36:07,195 otherwise it doesn't work. 2061 01:36:07,735 --> 01:36:12,635 Um, but it also has to work, you know, you couldn't 2062 01:36:13,215 --> 01:36:16,875 pay me enough money to spray poison on my land. 2063 01:36:16,995 --> 01:36:18,035 I live here. Mm-Hmm. . 2064 01:36:18,535 --> 01:36:20,975 Um, so it, even if 2065 01:36:20,975 --> 01:36:23,175 that worked economically, it wouldn't work. 2066 01:36:23,995 --> 01:36:26,495 So you have to draw your boundaries somewhere. 2067 01:36:26,915 --> 01:36:27,975 And luckily with, 2068 01:36:28,485 --> 01:36:31,775 with regenerative no-till farming it, it does work. 2069 01:36:31,875 --> 01:36:34,895 It is less work to not till it is less work 2070 01:36:35,035 --> 01:36:36,495 to not spray poison. 2071 01:36:37,045 --> 01:36:39,895 Sometimes you do lose crops to, to pests. 2072 01:36:40,435 --> 01:36:44,925 Um, as, as one of my great, um, 2073 01:36:45,875 --> 01:36:49,805 farming mentor friends, Casey O'Neill from Happy Day says, 2074 01:36:50,075 --> 01:36:52,405 when, when you're selling products to, to customers 2075 01:36:52,425 --> 01:36:54,285 and your kale has a nice hole in it, 2076 01:36:54,315 --> 01:36:55,925 it's like the kale is delicious 2077 01:36:55,925 --> 01:36:58,285 and the hole doesn't taste like anything . 2078 01:36:58,515 --> 01:37:01,405 It's like, it, you, you get the products you get 2079 01:37:01,405 --> 01:37:02,685 because of the way you farm. 2080 01:37:02,945 --> 01:37:04,325 And they, it's a benefit. 2081 01:37:04,865 --> 01:37:07,485 It, it, it really is a benefit economically. 2082 01:37:08,385 --> 01:37:13,195 - So, um, I know that I'm kind of inside of a bubble that, 2083 01:37:13,195 --> 01:37:14,835 that I'm probably in with you 2084 01:37:14,945 --> 01:37:17,315 because the people that I roll with, 2085 01:37:17,775 --> 01:37:18,955 uh, literally roll with. 2086 01:37:19,255 --> 01:37:22,755 Um, we're all into regeneratively grown outdoor flower. 2087 01:37:22,755 --> 01:37:25,115 Right. That's what we smoke and Yeah. 2088 01:37:25,175 --> 01:37:26,875 Um, and we're not gonna, we don't, 2089 01:37:26,875 --> 01:37:31,075 we're not gonna spend our, our our our money, um, uh, 2090 01:37:31,215 --> 01:37:34,195 buying, uh, you know, 2091 01:37:35,475 --> 01:37:39,395 a plus B flour from a dispensary, 2092 01:37:39,415 --> 01:37:41,715 and we're certainly not gonna grow, you know, 2093 01:37:41,905 --> 01:37:43,835 salt sodium flowers. 2094 01:37:43,965 --> 01:37:46,235 We're, we're gonna do it regeneratively and outdoors. 2095 01:37:46,855 --> 01:37:49,515 Um, that said, we are in a bubble. Right. 2096 01:37:49,575 --> 01:37:52,115 And there, there is a market as, as a whole. 2097 01:37:52,775 --> 01:37:55,845 And so, um, I'm curious to know, um, 2098 01:37:56,115 --> 01:37:58,485 have you seen an increase in demand 2099 01:37:58,665 --> 01:38:01,165 for your regeneratively produced cannabis? 2100 01:38:01,195 --> 01:38:03,765 Because, you know, as somebody in journalism, 2101 01:38:04,185 --> 01:38:07,765 I'm certainly helping, you know, raise the profile 2102 01:38:08,065 --> 01:38:11,485 of regenerative and all of us who are in regenerative smoke, 2103 01:38:11,485 --> 01:38:15,965 regenerative, but, um, I I I'm not familiar with like, 2104 01:38:16,145 --> 01:38:19,645 how much of the market is being purchased regenerative, 2105 01:38:20,065 --> 01:38:21,645 and there you are on the front line. 2106 01:38:21,785 --> 01:38:26,365 So are, are you seeing an increased demand for your, 2107 01:38:26,865 --> 01:38:28,725 uh, quality of cannabis flour? 2108 01:38:29,855 --> 01:38:31,425 - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We are. 2109 01:38:31,645 --> 01:38:35,105 Um, and it, it's an engagement thing. 2110 01:38:35,205 --> 01:38:38,945 It, it, it, it's having direct contact as much with, 2111 01:38:39,135 --> 01:38:41,665 with bud tenders, uh, as with customers 2112 01:38:41,765 --> 01:38:44,385 and our brand, which we share with a number 2113 01:38:44,385 --> 01:38:47,025 of other regenerative farmers is, is farm cut. 2114 01:38:47,605 --> 01:38:49,865 And what we've noticed with that is, 2115 01:38:49,885 --> 01:38:52,025 is the product we're coming to customers 2116 01:38:52,025 --> 01:38:54,425 with sometimes is a hard sell. 2117 01:38:54,435 --> 01:38:59,045 We're selling top shelf flour, minimally processed, 2118 01:38:59,045 --> 01:39:02,205 so basically un trimmed to it 2119 01:39:02,425 --> 01:39:04,565 and, uh, in quarter ounce amounts. 2120 01:39:04,785 --> 01:39:07,245 And it, the, the, 2121 01:39:07,305 --> 01:39:10,005 the hardest part is actually getting customers 2122 01:39:10,005 --> 01:39:11,245 to try it the first time, 2123 01:39:11,595 --> 01:39:15,325 because nearly across the board customers 2124 01:39:15,325 --> 01:39:17,045 that try it come back for more, 2125 01:39:17,155 --> 01:39:22,085 because objectively there is 2126 01:39:22,125 --> 01:39:24,005 a difference in the experience from it. 2127 01:39:24,665 --> 01:39:29,175 So, um, the, the challenge is definitely engaging 2128 01:39:29,485 --> 01:39:33,375 with Bud Tenderers who often push indoor flower 2129 01:39:33,875 --> 01:39:37,655 or brands they're familiar with, uh, whether out of habit 2130 01:39:37,795 --> 01:39:39,455 or out of market dynamics. 2131 01:39:40,075 --> 01:39:43,415 Um, but I, I feel like we have seen an increase in, 2132 01:39:43,515 --> 01:39:45,655 in people seeking out regenerative flour 2133 01:39:46,195 --> 01:39:50,295 and, uh, an in definitely an increase in the people 2134 01:39:50,355 --> 01:39:54,655 who do seek out regenerative flour coming back for our brand 2135 01:39:54,655 --> 01:39:56,295 after they have an experience with it. 2136 01:39:57,045 --> 01:39:59,175 - Yeah. The proof really isn't a pudding, isn't it? 2137 01:39:59,245 --> 01:40:02,295 Like af af Yeah. After you smoke outdoor that was, you know, 2138 01:40:02,295 --> 01:40:03,695 carefully grown regeneratively. 2139 01:40:03,695 --> 01:40:07,055 It really, it really does open up, um, 2140 01:40:07,165 --> 01:40:09,135 what you think cannabis can be 2141 01:40:09,135 --> 01:40:11,255 because of the wider terpene profiles 2142 01:40:11,275 --> 01:40:13,135 and, you know, the burs in general. 2143 01:40:14,245 --> 01:40:15,575 - Well, and the challenge for us 2144 01:40:15,595 --> 01:40:17,815 and why we created that brand is you, 2145 01:40:17,875 --> 01:40:20,295 you can grow the best regenerative flower in the world, 2146 01:40:20,715 --> 01:40:23,015 and if you don't cure it right, it's not great 2147 01:40:23,315 --> 01:40:25,295 and you can cure it perfectly. 2148 01:40:25,875 --> 01:40:28,935 And if it makes its way to market in a way that doesn't 2149 01:40:29,495 --> 01:40:32,695 preserve that and bring it to the customer in its best 2150 01:40:33,415 --> 01:40:35,975 possible form, then you also lose that quality. 2151 01:40:36,115 --> 01:40:39,295 And we kind of created a, a a way to get it 2152 01:40:39,295 --> 01:40:41,255 to the customer in the way we enjoy it. 2153 01:40:41,835 --> 01:40:43,335 And it blows people's minds. 2154 01:40:43,405 --> 01:40:46,455 It's like when you, when you open a jar that's been 2155 01:40:46,995 --> 01:40:50,095 vacuum sealed and, and not trimmed, 2156 01:40:50,095 --> 01:40:52,055 and you, you break it open for the first time 2157 01:40:52,055 --> 01:40:54,205 and break a couple sugar leafs off of it, 2158 01:40:54,555 --> 01:40:56,805 it's overwhelming like the smell. 2159 01:40:57,185 --> 01:41:00,445 And then when you smoke properly cured properly stored 2160 01:41:00,615 --> 01:41:05,005 flour, the experience is, is just different 2161 01:41:05,505 --> 01:41:07,885 and more full and more layered 2162 01:41:07,885 --> 01:41:10,725 and nuanced than the experience from 2163 01:41:11,675 --> 01:41:13,245 some fast dried indoor 2164 01:41:13,605 --> 01:41:14,605 - . 2165 01:41:14,605 --> 01:41:15,205 Yeah. . Um, you know, 2166 01:41:15,255 --> 01:41:17,685 there are two other aspects I wanna, um, uh, 2167 01:41:18,125 --> 01:41:20,085 economic regenerative aspects I wanna focus on. 2168 01:41:20,185 --> 01:41:21,485 Um, one you've already mentioned, 2169 01:41:21,485 --> 01:41:24,085 which is the relationship with budtenders. 2170 01:41:24,085 --> 01:41:27,085 Right. Um, because it is interesting that, um, you know, 2171 01:41:27,185 --> 01:41:30,565 bud tenderers do have a lot of control in, uh, uh, 2172 01:41:30,755 --> 01:41:33,245 influence in, in where they drive people 2173 01:41:33,425 --> 01:41:34,445 for their purchases. 2174 01:41:34,505 --> 01:41:38,365 So having a good relationship with budtenders is important. 2175 01:41:38,625 --> 01:41:41,085 And in a lot of ways, like, you know, um, 2176 01:41:41,955 --> 01:41:45,725 that friendship is also a regenerative farming p practice in 2177 01:41:45,725 --> 01:41:49,165 a way, in that it's, it's creating community and outreach 2178 01:41:49,385 --> 01:41:52,645 and, and, uh, reaching out with, um, you know, 2179 01:41:52,645 --> 01:41:55,445 your philosophy of regenerative growing and, 2180 01:41:55,445 --> 01:41:56,565 and what that meaning is. 2181 01:41:56,985 --> 01:41:58,525 But, but also, and, 2182 01:41:58,545 --> 01:42:03,005 and where I wanna focus more is, um, the cooperation 2183 01:42:03,025 --> 01:42:06,685 and community spirit that you, um, need to have 2184 01:42:06,965 --> 01:42:10,525 with other farmers on a basic level when you are trading 2185 01:42:10,885 --> 01:42:13,125 resources like, oh, you know, I'll trade you, 2186 01:42:13,595 --> 01:42:16,645 I'll trade you hay for manure, 2187 01:42:16,825 --> 01:42:20,325 or whatever the trades may be, or, or, or sharing equipment. 2188 01:42:20,575 --> 01:42:23,405 Those kinds of relationships become really essential in 2189 01:42:23,405 --> 01:42:27,285 regenerative farming when you're trying to, um, you know, 2190 01:42:27,585 --> 01:42:28,925 be very resourceful. 2191 01:42:29,105 --> 01:42:32,725 But then also you, you mentioned, uh, farm cut cannabis, um, 2192 01:42:33,025 --> 01:42:36,205 the brand that you've put together with, um, you know, uh, 2193 01:42:36,255 --> 01:42:37,965 looks like four different farms 2194 01:42:38,265 --> 01:42:41,685 and yourselves, where, um, you know, you, you kind 2195 01:42:41,685 --> 01:42:46,645 of get the benefits of being a scaled farm without having 2196 01:42:46,665 --> 01:42:50,525 to do the, the negatives of a scaled farm. 2197 01:42:51,065 --> 01:42:54,405 And, and, and that synergy only comes together 2198 01:42:54,715 --> 01:42:57,565 because you get together with these all small farms 2199 01:42:57,625 --> 01:43:00,165 and then market and distribute as one. 2200 01:43:00,465 --> 01:43:03,285 And we all know that, that that was, you know, 2201 01:43:03,285 --> 01:43:06,285 that was attempted at the beginning of, of, you know, 2202 01:43:06,285 --> 01:43:09,965 proposition 64 days by outsiders where they're, oh, 2203 01:43:09,965 --> 01:43:11,765 we're gonna pull together all the small farms. 2204 01:43:11,785 --> 01:43:13,805 And then it ended up being a big crock. 2205 01:43:14,505 --> 01:43:17,645 Um, but, but, but now in kind of like the dust 2206 01:43:17,865 --> 01:43:22,685 of the brokenness of, of the cannabis, uh, system in, 2207 01:43:22,745 --> 01:43:25,725 in California, we're seeing farmers come together, 2208 01:43:26,555 --> 01:43:29,405 like really, like over the dinner table in a, in, in, 2209 01:43:29,405 --> 01:43:32,605 in a smaller, less grandiose way. 2210 01:43:33,225 --> 01:43:35,645 And it appears from the outside, uh, 2211 01:43:35,645 --> 01:43:36,965 uh, um, that it's working. 2212 01:43:37,425 --> 01:43:40,125 So, so maybe talk a little bit about this partnership with, 2213 01:43:40,125 --> 01:43:41,565 um, you know, that you, 2214 01:43:41,565 --> 01:43:43,525 that you all are calling farm cut cannabis. 2215 01:43:44,435 --> 01:43:47,245 - Yeah. So that, that, that partnership is, 2216 01:43:47,385 --> 01:43:49,045 is five farms, including ourselves. 2217 01:43:49,235 --> 01:43:53,285 It's ourselves, Whitethorn Valley Farm, happy Day Farm, 2218 01:43:54,165 --> 01:43:56,125 Emerald Spirit Botanicals in Mendo 2219 01:43:56,265 --> 01:43:58,805 and Downham Farms in Nevada City area. 2220 01:43:59,505 --> 01:44:02,045 And, um, it's just wonderful. 2221 01:44:02,095 --> 01:44:05,365 We're, we're like-minded farmers who came together. 2222 01:44:05,785 --> 01:44:07,885 We couldn't exactly create a co-op, 2223 01:44:08,385 --> 01:44:12,005 but we created a brand together that we can share, 2224 01:44:13,145 --> 01:44:16,125 and like you'd said, share resources, share, 2225 01:44:16,695 --> 01:44:18,405 share the burden of the tasks. 2226 01:44:18,905 --> 01:44:22,125 Um, Joseph from ALD Spirit is our, our, 2227 01:44:22,385 --> 01:44:23,605 our primary salesperson. 2228 01:44:23,665 --> 01:44:25,845 And he, uh, because other members 2229 01:44:25,865 --> 01:44:28,365 of his family are taking care of the farm, he's able 2230 01:44:28,365 --> 01:44:31,965 to travel a lot and, and visit dispensaries and, 2231 01:44:32,065 --> 01:44:34,285 and talk to people about, about farm cut 2232 01:44:34,285 --> 01:44:36,445 and about our products and make those relationships. 2233 01:44:37,465 --> 01:44:40,205 And, and we've played to all of our strengths 2234 01:44:40,665 --> 01:44:42,525 and been able to develop systems 2235 01:44:42,665 --> 01:44:44,565 and processes that, that work for us, 2236 01:44:44,565 --> 01:44:46,285 whether it's sharing equipment 2237 01:44:46,625 --> 01:44:50,445 or pooling our resources to be able to say, um, 2238 01:44:50,985 --> 01:44:53,325 we have packaging that says Standard Mason Jar, 2239 01:44:53,465 --> 01:44:57,045 and we could not find a good childproof lid 2240 01:44:57,045 --> 01:44:59,445 for a standard mason jar that didn't have plastic in it. 2241 01:44:59,505 --> 01:45:02,685 So we were able to create one to, to go to a factory 2242 01:45:02,785 --> 01:45:07,135 and say, we want plant-based childproof lid for, 2243 01:45:07,315 --> 01:45:11,935 for this size jar and, and create that and bypass in bulk 2244 01:45:12,035 --> 01:45:13,175 and things like that. 2245 01:45:13,275 --> 01:45:15,575 And it, it's heartening, it's, it's, um, 2246 01:45:16,675 --> 01:45:20,495 in this economic system where it's going towards integration 2247 01:45:20,525 --> 01:45:24,335 with the kind of dog heat, dog venture, capitalist, 2248 01:45:24,385 --> 01:45:28,655 capitalist world, the, the cooperation, uh, 2249 01:45:28,875 --> 01:45:32,415 and the building something together gives us a lot of hope 2250 01:45:32,955 --> 01:45:35,655 and a lot of a good feeling, especially doing it 2251 01:45:35,655 --> 01:45:37,135 with people we just like seeing 2252 01:45:37,235 --> 01:45:38,655 and being around. Anyway, 2253 01:45:38,965 --> 01:45:39,965 - That Yeah, totally. 2254 01:45:39,995 --> 01:45:41,575 The, uh, doing business with people 2255 01:45:41,575 --> 01:45:42,775 that we actually like really 2256 01:45:42,895 --> 01:45:44,495 makes all the difference in the world. Oh, 2257 01:45:45,045 --> 01:45:45,975 - It's so great. You 2258 01:45:45,975 --> 01:45:49,095 - Know, it'd be really funny if this, um, if this, uh, 2259 01:45:49,315 --> 01:45:52,695 new childproof cap for mason jars that you all invented, 2260 01:45:53,125 --> 01:45:57,335 that, that, you know, that the patent for that 2261 01:45:58,175 --> 01:45:59,855 actually ends up becoming popular 2262 01:45:59,855 --> 01:46:02,735 because that's actually a really novel, useful idea 2263 01:46:02,995 --> 01:46:04,815 and ends up making you all more, 2264 01:46:05,165 --> 01:46:07,255 more income than the cannabis itself. You know, 2265 01:46:07,385 --> 01:46:09,135 - There was, there was somebody already doing it, 2266 01:46:09,135 --> 01:46:11,175 and we were, we were getting those, um, 2267 01:46:11,355 --> 01:46:12,615 and they were great products. 2268 01:46:12,615 --> 01:46:14,775 They, they were on the pricey side. 2269 01:46:14,875 --> 01:46:17,415 Uh, but the main thing that, that we wanted is something 2270 01:46:17,415 --> 01:46:18,895 that didn't have any plastic. 2271 01:46:18,995 --> 01:46:23,135 And the one we had initially started with our brand is made 2272 01:46:23,135 --> 01:46:25,655 with a flax fiber and a recycled plastic, 2273 01:46:26,315 --> 01:46:29,255 and we wanted one that was entirely biological. 2274 01:46:29,525 --> 01:46:30,935 Yeah. Plant-based material. 2275 01:46:31,675 --> 01:46:33,615 And, and that's where we got into it. 2276 01:46:33,635 --> 01:46:36,735 And yeah, who knows what the, the long, long term of that, 2277 01:46:37,035 --> 01:46:40,495 I'm, I'm just right now keeping my fingers crossed that 2278 01:46:40,525 --> 01:46:43,415 that California could be a big enough market that we can, 2279 01:46:43,795 --> 01:46:46,895 we can sell a majority of our product through this brand 2280 01:46:46,895 --> 01:46:49,245 that is, is a joy to, to be part of. 2281 01:46:49,985 --> 01:46:53,845 And, um, we're not there yet, but we're doing really well. 2282 01:46:54,445 --> 01:46:56,325 - Excellent, excellent. Well, it's nice, it's nice 2283 01:46:56,325 --> 01:46:59,885 to see good people coming together in a good union, uh, 2284 01:47:00,025 --> 01:47:01,245 for, for shared benefit. 2285 01:47:02,035 --> 01:47:03,125 - Yeah, it feels great too. 2286 01:47:03,205 --> 01:47:05,805 I mean, it's, it's, we get such incredibly 2287 01:47:07,045 --> 01:47:09,565 positive feedback from, from customers 2288 01:47:09,665 --> 01:47:13,885 and dispensaries about it that it e even just that alone, 2289 01:47:13,885 --> 01:47:16,965 besides the business aspect, it's like, um, 2290 01:47:17,435 --> 01:47:19,725 it's a good feeling to know that the thing you put 2291 01:47:19,745 --> 01:47:21,525 so much energy into creating well 2292 01:47:21,525 --> 01:47:24,125 and taking care of well is, is received 2293 01:47:24,145 --> 01:47:27,125 and acknowledged for being what it is in the world. 2294 01:47:27,345 --> 01:47:29,885 - And, and also specifically the, the farms 2295 01:47:29,885 --> 01:47:33,285 that you have partnered with, I know several of the folks 2296 01:47:33,865 --> 01:47:36,645 and you know, like who, who doesn't wanna be in partnership 2297 01:47:36,645 --> 01:47:39,205 with regenerative farmers who are generally happy go lucky 2298 01:47:39,205 --> 01:47:41,085 people anyway, you know, I mean, you know, 2299 01:47:41,085 --> 01:47:42,525 I I probably know Casey the best 2300 01:47:42,825 --> 01:47:44,325 and, you know, great success 2301 01:47:44,325 --> 01:47:46,005 to all of it, you know, . Exactly. 2302 01:47:46,275 --> 01:47:48,085 - Exactly. Great success. Yeah. 2303 01:47:48,505 --> 01:47:50,405 - So, so let's finish off with this question. 2304 01:47:50,465 --> 01:47:53,565 You know, like we intentionally designed this episode today 2305 01:47:53,985 --> 01:47:58,045 so that we could talk about your farm, um, in detail, 2306 01:47:58,145 --> 01:48:00,205 but really as an example of 2307 01:48:00,435 --> 01:48:03,805 what can happen on everybody's farm who's listening, right. 2308 01:48:03,805 --> 01:48:06,005 Whether or not they're transitioning from, 2309 01:48:06,235 --> 01:48:08,005 from petroleum farming or, 2310 01:48:08,065 --> 01:48:09,965 or if they're just coming to their parcel and, 2311 01:48:09,965 --> 01:48:13,365 and I think we get a did a good job of that, um, but, 2312 01:48:13,505 --> 01:48:17,325 but really like the direct advice really could be 2313 01:48:17,565 --> 01:48:18,605 profound and inspirational. 2314 01:48:18,665 --> 01:48:19,885 So, so let's finish with that. 2315 01:48:19,945 --> 01:48:23,845 So what advice would you give to a farmer 2316 01:48:24,475 --> 01:48:25,485 with a new parcel, 2317 01:48:25,985 --> 01:48:29,245 or who is transitioning, who is just starting out 2318 01:48:29,245 --> 01:48:30,925 with regenerative practices? 2319 01:48:32,095 --> 01:48:36,285 - Hmm. I think the best advice, um, 2320 01:48:37,535 --> 01:48:39,525 would be kind of go 2321 01:48:40,145 --> 01:48:42,325 if you've read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 2322 01:48:42,325 --> 01:48:44,685 Yeah, for sure. The best advice in the world is don't panic. 2323 01:48:45,305 --> 01:48:47,285 - Oh, I thought you were gonna say to bring a towel , 2324 01:48:47,635 --> 01:48:49,165 - That that's not a bad idea. 2325 01:48:50,465 --> 01:48:54,405 Uh, no, don't, don't panic. Don't stress. Do what you can. 2326 01:48:55,195 --> 01:48:59,005 None of us are, are on an island there. 2327 01:48:59,395 --> 01:49:00,565 There's no such thing 2328 01:49:00,565 --> 01:49:03,685 as a complete closed loop sustainability system. 2329 01:49:05,465 --> 01:49:07,955 Look at your farm, do your best. 2330 01:49:09,215 --> 01:49:12,065 Find, find the resources that you have available 2331 01:49:12,965 --> 01:49:14,025 and adapt to them. 2332 01:49:14,655 --> 01:49:18,025 Find the markets you have available and adapt to them. 2333 01:49:19,285 --> 01:49:22,195 Don't be too hard on yourself for the things that don't work 2334 01:49:23,135 --> 01:49:26,355 and, and don't imagine that, that 2335 01:49:27,055 --> 01:49:28,395 we can be pure 2336 01:49:28,735 --> 01:49:30,955 or to keep, um, 2337 01:49:32,025 --> 01:49:34,035 that we can do everything we dream 2338 01:49:34,095 --> 01:49:36,845 as regenerative right from the start. 2339 01:49:38,415 --> 01:49:41,875 I'm, you, you introduced me as a regenerative farmer. 2340 01:49:42,375 --> 01:49:43,595 I'm not a regenerative farmer. 2341 01:49:43,875 --> 01:49:46,035 I don't think anybody is a regenerative farmer. 2342 01:49:46,835 --> 01:49:50,685 I I think all of us are striving to align our farming 2343 01:49:50,955 --> 01:49:52,285 with natural process 2344 01:49:53,305 --> 01:49:55,605 and balancing that with the needs 2345 01:49:55,625 --> 01:49:58,165 of being a human on earth right now, 2346 01:49:59,315 --> 01:50:02,735 and what is available to us and what the, the constraints 2347 01:50:02,995 --> 01:50:06,855 and the, the, the burdens that, that, 2348 01:50:06,855 --> 01:50:07,975 that we have to deal with. 2349 01:50:08,675 --> 01:50:10,335 So find that balance. 2350 01:50:10,785 --> 01:50:14,615 Don't get squeezed between your ideals and your reality. 2351 01:50:16,175 --> 01:50:20,465 Make make your way the path that that is best for you. 2352 01:50:20,765 --> 01:50:24,265 And then see where you can improve it towards natural 2353 01:50:24,465 --> 01:50:26,465 systems towards more sustainability 2354 01:50:26,765 --> 01:50:30,705 and make some improvement that is possible for you 2355 01:50:30,815 --> 01:50:33,305 with each season and go in that direction. 2356 01:50:33,695 --> 01:50:36,545 - Beautiful. Well, Daniel, thank you so much 2357 01:50:36,605 --> 01:50:39,305 for sharing your, your depth of experience 2358 01:50:39,525 --> 01:50:43,945 and your passion for farming and doing the right thing and, 2359 01:50:43,965 --> 01:50:46,305 and your vision for your, you know, your own parcel 2360 01:50:46,445 --> 01:50:48,065 and your own family and your own life. 2361 01:50:48,265 --> 01:50:50,985 I think that, um, you know, through these words, 2362 01:50:51,055 --> 01:50:54,265 hopefully we've given some people some new ideas for things 2363 01:50:54,265 --> 01:50:55,705 to do on their own parcels 2364 01:50:56,245 --> 01:50:58,865 and also, uh, you know, just, just 2365 01:50:59,485 --> 01:51:02,505 put regenerative farming more into the realm 2366 01:51:02,565 --> 01:51:05,825 of the possible instead of the realm of the ideal. 2367 01:51:06,125 --> 01:51:08,065 So I know your time is valuable 2368 01:51:08,065 --> 01:51:10,065 and I, I really thank you for spending it 2369 01:51:10,065 --> 01:51:11,305 with us on Shaping Fire. 2370 01:51:12,255 --> 01:51:14,585 - Yeah, thank you. It's, it's been really enjoyable 2371 01:51:14,605 --> 01:51:16,305 and I just hope everybody gets out there 2372 01:51:16,305 --> 01:51:17,785 and gets their hands dirty this spring. 2373 01:51:18,055 --> 01:51:21,865 - Fantastic. Okay, dear listeners, so if you want to, uh, 2374 01:51:21,895 --> 01:51:25,345 know more about Priceland Forest Farm, where, uh, 2375 01:51:25,435 --> 01:51:29,225 where Daniel is owner with his wife Taylor, um, uh, 2376 01:51:29,245 --> 01:51:32,505 you can find out that at Priceland Forest 2377 01:51:33,095 --> 01:51:34,465 Farm on Instagram 2378 01:51:35,405 --> 01:51:39,785 or on their website@pricelandforestfarm.com. 2379 01:51:39,925 --> 01:51:43,505 And Bri Lynn is B-R-I-C-E-L-A-N-D. 2380 01:51:44,285 --> 01:51:47,145 And, um, we would love it if you would, uh, you know, 2381 01:51:47,145 --> 01:51:48,825 if you live in California, if you're, 2382 01:51:48,825 --> 01:51:51,865 or if you're traveling there to stop at your dispensary 2383 01:51:51,865 --> 01:51:55,825 and buy some Farm Cut Cannabis, um, their small farm, 2384 01:51:56,285 --> 01:51:57,465 uh, community group. 2385 01:51:57,885 --> 01:52:01,625 And, uh, if you wanna follow along with them, um, you on ig, 2386 01:52:01,625 --> 01:52:03,505 that's Farm Cut Canna 2387 01:52:04,125 --> 01:52:08,265 and, uh, on the interwebs, that's farm cut cannabis.com. 2388 01:52:09,465 --> 01:52:11,565 You can find more episodes of the Shaping Fire Podcast 2389 01:52:11,745 --> 01:52:14,205 and subscribe to the show@shapingfire.com 2390 01:52:14,265 --> 01:52:16,085 and wherever you get your podcasts. 2391 01:52:16,505 --> 01:52:18,725 If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you 2392 01:52:18,725 --> 01:52:20,205 would leave a positive review of the podcast. 2393 01:52:20,725 --> 01:52:23,685 Wherever you download your view will help others find the 2394 01:52:23,685 --> 01:52:25,085 show so they can enjoy it too. 2395 01:52:25,665 --> 01:52:27,965 On the Shaping Fire website, you can also subscribe 2396 01:52:28,025 --> 01:52:30,765 to the newsletter for insights into the latest cannabis news 2397 01:52:30,835 --> 01:52:34,805 exclusive videos and giveaways on the Shaping Fire website. 2398 01:52:34,805 --> 01:52:37,445 You also find transcripts of today's podcast as well. 2399 01:52:38,025 --> 01:52:39,325 Be sure to follow on Instagram. 2400 01:52:39,345 --> 01:52:41,725 For all original content not found on the podcast 2401 01:52:42,385 --> 01:52:43,725 that's at Shaping Fire 2402 01:52:43,865 --> 01:52:46,725 and at shingo los on Instagram, be sure 2403 01:52:46,725 --> 01:52:48,565 to check out the Shaping Fire YouTube channel 2404 01:52:48,585 --> 01:52:51,445 for exclusive interviews, farm tours, and cannabis lectures. 2405 01:52:51,955 --> 01:52:54,245 Does your company wanna reach our national audience 2406 01:52:54,245 --> 01:52:55,485 of cannabis enthusiasts? 2407 01:52:55,895 --> 01:52:59,045 Email hotspot@shapingfire.com to find out how. 2408 01:52:59,265 --> 01:53:00,805 Thanks for listening to Shaping Fire. 2409 01:53:01,235 --> 01:53:03,285 I've been your host, Shang Los.