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- We humans have been enjoying
psychedelic mushrooms for

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so long that it may have even been before.

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We are homo sapiens,

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00:00:14,225 --> 00:00:16,845
and even though most of us get
our mushrooms from our weed

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dealer, they really are
nature and occur outside

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and grow nearby in the forest for free.

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You just have to be really
clear in your identification

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so you don't end up dying.

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We may be taking mushrooms to talk to God,

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but that doesn't mean we
wanna see God in person

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after accidentally eating
a truly poisonous mushroom.

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Today's episode is about a special group

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of psilocybin mushrooms who
love growing on hardwood,

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and how you can wildcraft them

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and also grow a patch in your
yard or your neighbor's yard,

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or your local park.

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00:00:49,935 --> 00:00:52,155
If you wanna learn about
cannabis health cultivation

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00:00:52,155 --> 00:00:53,315
and technique efficiently

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and with good cheer, I encourage you

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to subscribe to our newsletter.

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You are listening to Shaping Fire.

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And I am your host, Shang
Los. Welcome to episode 113.

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My guest today is Christian Kalin.

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Christian is primarily self-talk,

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but he has been very
successful teaching himself.

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In the early two
thousands, Christian worked

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for Paul Stamets at Fungi
Perfecti, managing the farm team,

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performing mass sterilization
and inoculation.

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While there, he created the first SOPs

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for medicinal mushroom powder
and tincture manufacturing.

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Since that time, he has worked
on a series of consulting

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and manufacturing projects covered

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by NDAs for himself and others.

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He is presently adjunct
faculty at Basier University,

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where he develops

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and teaches ology courses
for graduate students.

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Christian also is founder

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00:02:00,035 --> 00:02:02,655
and owner of Provisions
Mushroom Farm in Olympia.

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Washington Provisions is the
first CSA supported agriculture

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mushroom farm in the United States.

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He sells over a thousand
pounds of culinary

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mushrooms per week through
local farmer's markets,

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grocery stores, and restaurants.

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He also produces tinctures
and various mycelium

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and mushroom products
for wholesale and retail.

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Finally, Christian maintains
a coveted in-House Master

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tissue cultural library for
food and medicinal production.

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His company is so respected

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that his internship
opportunities are accredited

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by the Evergreen State College.

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During the first set today,

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we will learn about the wood
loving mushrooms, who they are

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and how they function.

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In the second set, we will
discuss wildcrafting wood lovers,

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their ecology and responsible harvesting.

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And during the third
set, we go step-by-step

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through creating and
sustaining a wood loving

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psilocybin mushroom plot at home.

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Welcome to Shaping Fire
Christian. It's great to be here.

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Thank you. Excellent. So
let's get right into it.

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So, you know, for folks whose familiarity

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with mushrooms stops at, um,

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like are they hallucinogenic or not?

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Le let's create a little bit of context

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to bring everybody on the same page.

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You know, people talk
about these mushrooms as,

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as psilocybin mushrooms kind of generally,

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but the genus is philosophy.

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And so let's start with that context.

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Would you give us a quick
summary of the philosophy genus

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of fungi and,

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and maybe a little bit
of their characteristics?

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- Yeah, definitely. I like to kind

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of categorize the different
species in the philosophy genus

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in three different categories.

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Basically wood lovers that
we wanna talk about today.

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Uh, copper tropic

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or copper fillic, mushrooms
that like manure, feces

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and also grass loving varieties.

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And some can be intermixed like the,

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they're all basically saper
trs that like, uh, dead

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or decaying materials, substrates,

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but some will also integrate
in manure and grass

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and some just in wood.

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So I, I think, um, those
are distinguishing factors

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that are, uh, kind

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of delineate all the philosophy. Mushrooms

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- Is, is the fact that
they have psilocybin a

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key attribute of them?

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I would think that since
philosophy is the name, you know,

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is in the name of the
genus, that would be true,

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but I don't know that to be true.

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- Yeah, they, they vary in potency,

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but generally all philosophy
mushrooms have psilocybin.

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- Okay. So you've given us like
these three general baskets

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in philosophy, the, the wood
lovers, the manure lovers,

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and the grass lovers.

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So, so we're gonna focus
on the wood lovers today.

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So I think our next step
would be to identify

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that next smaller basket.

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If, if, if those three are all
part of the philosophy genus,

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what would you say are the
attributes specifically

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of the wood lovers?

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- They all have very similar phenotypes.

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Uh, there's different varying potencies.

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The more research that we do
on analyzing the constituents,

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the psychoactive properties
in these species, we'll find

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that they each have
differing compounds, uh,

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differing potencies.

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But generally the wood
lovers all have very

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similar characteristics.

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Stem, uh, morphology

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and their, their caps all have kind

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of a similar resemblance to spores.

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So they, they all are distinguished.

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That's why they're in that
distinguishable category,

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basically, because they're so similar.

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- It sounds like not only
are there morphological

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similarities between them,
meaning they look the same,

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but the more science
we're able to do on them,

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we're probably also going to find a lot

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of similarities in the
chemistry of them as that, as

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that research gets done. I'm guessing

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- Definitely that, you know,
their, their caps may vary.

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You know, some are more rounded,
some are pointed on top,

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some are a little more brown,

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some are more caramel
caps, some are even white.

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So there are some very macroscopic

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big differences within the wood lovers,

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but they are very, you
know, similar, they, the,

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we we're discovering a lot still today.

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And so, you know, out of

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around 2, 250, 300 different species in

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the philosophy genus, you
know, I think we're dealing

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with close to a dozen

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or so in the wood lovers that we know of.

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So there's still a lot to learn.

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- And that's exactly where
I'm going next, you know,

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is this, how many of
these, you know, how many

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of the wood lovers exist?

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I, I, I know I, I mean,
Lisa, I don't think

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that's a scientific definition.

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I think that's more like a, uh, um,

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a convenience definition.

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But when I was doing my
homework for the program, um,

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some people were suggesting
like, oh, there are, you know,

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there, there are only really
three main wood lovers,

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and then there's a couple rare ones,

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and then somebody else like,
oh, there's really five

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major wood lovers, and then
there's the rest of them.

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But you know, I, you know,
in my research I came up

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with like 11, and so I don't know whether

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or not, you know, there
are 11 or like a hundred,

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and I only found 11, but,

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but you're, you're suggesting
that there's really 12

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that really like fit the definition, eh?

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- Yeah, I am, you know,
taxonomy isn't my strong suit.

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Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, so I'll just put

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that out there right off the bat.

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I, I'm specialized in cultivation, so, um,

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I leave a lot of these
bigger taxonomy questions

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to the taxonomist out there.

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But yes, the on average,
you know, we're finding more

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and more every year.

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And so that number is changing.

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And as well as the taxonomy
work that's being done,

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we're finding that those
scientific names are changing too.

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So what we thought was
philosophy Behem is now being

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correlated to cica,

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and so the names change as
well as the discoveries.

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- And that really is an confusing

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thing in science too, you know?

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Um, uh, I have a long
history of keeping, uh,

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freshwater fish aquariums,

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and it was always weird when
we'd, I'd go to like, you know,

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the, the, the Seattle
Aquarium Club meetings

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00:08:31,345 --> 00:08:32,785
and they'd announced that, you know,

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some fish had changed
from one name to another,

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and we're all like, what the hell, man.

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Yeah. And, and I can imagine
that, that, you know,

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that happens in every branch of science.

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I actually have got behe in my notes

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and also cervical in my notes

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and didn't realize that
they were the same thing.

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I have a feeling that's probably
gonna happen for a while.

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00:08:51,055 --> 00:08:54,265
- Yeah. Just ever increasing
more people out there hunting,

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looking for new species.

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There's more collaboration
online on all the different

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websites that are documenting the

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data, so it's really exciting.

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00:09:05,665 --> 00:09:07,005
- So, so if we're, you know,

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we're not gonna necessarily
go into every one of the,

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00:09:09,545 --> 00:09:11,925
the 12 wood lovers, uh, specifically,

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00:09:12,505 --> 00:09:15,045
but just for like name recognition, um,

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00:09:15,135 --> 00:09:17,205
would you just tell us the names of some

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of the real cornerstone wood
lovers that, that people tend

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00:09:20,965 --> 00:09:22,165
to have access to and like?

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00:09:23,435 --> 00:09:28,195
- Yeah, there's, you know,
starting from the top,

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00:09:28,225 --> 00:09:30,835
some of the most potent
mushrooms are the wood

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00:09:30,835 --> 00:09:32,915
lovers philosophy.

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00:09:34,045 --> 00:09:37,435
Azure essence in the Pacific
Northwest, known as one

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00:09:37,435 --> 00:09:41,475
of the most potent, also in
the Southern hemisphere in

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00:09:41,475 --> 00:09:46,075
New Zealand, Australia,
you have philosophy sub,

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which is also, they say
probably equally as potent

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as the Azure essence, just on
a different part of the world.

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00:09:55,775 --> 00:09:58,875
So it, it all comes down
to, like we talked about

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before, the analysis of, um,

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00:10:02,615 --> 00:10:04,755
the compounds are gonna come out more

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00:10:04,755 --> 00:10:05,755
and more of, of

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00:10:05,755 --> 00:10:08,755
what variety is gonna
be more potent over time

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00:10:09,055 --> 00:10:12,915
as we include all the different
precursors to psilocybin.

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00:10:13,575 --> 00:10:16,275
Um, you know, like we talked
about, bohemus is kind

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00:10:16,275 --> 00:10:20,465
of next the cica the, uh,

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senescence also here in
the Pacific Northwest.

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The thing about wood lovers is now

225
00:10:26,545 --> 00:10:29,305
that we have more
interest around the world,

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00:10:29,855 --> 00:10:31,025
both in cultivation

227
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and in identification, that these,

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these mushrooms are being
distributed worldwide,

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and so their habitats are changing.

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Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what
used to be found just in the

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Pacific Northwest is now
found in Central Park,

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in downtown New York City

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because people have taken
samples of the culture

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00:10:52,725 --> 00:10:55,865
or the spores and transferred
them as they travel,

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00:10:57,005 --> 00:10:58,985
or maybe mistakenly

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or directly, um, consciously.

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So we're starting to see all
these different varieties

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00:11:07,085 --> 00:11:08,545
be distributed all over the world.

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00:11:08,685 --> 00:11:12,665
So, um, yeah, uh, I think, like

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I would say to name a few
others, uh, the spring

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philosophy known as Ovoid,

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00:11:19,565 --> 00:11:24,145
or the OID ada found in Ohio,

243
00:11:24,145 --> 00:11:27,065
Pennsylvania area was recently discovered.

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00:11:27,845 --> 00:11:30,225
Uh, well, it was discovered a while back,

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00:11:30,245 --> 00:11:32,385
but the taxonomy work
was just recently done.

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00:11:33,635 --> 00:11:38,215
And, uh, the Alinea also was
something that was discovered

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00:11:38,635 --> 00:11:40,735
by John Allen back in the eighties,

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00:11:41,035 --> 00:11:45,655
and then kind of got back into circulation

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around 2004, 2005.

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00:11:48,275 --> 00:11:51,295
And now Alan Rockefeller

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00:11:51,315 --> 00:11:54,965
and his crew have done
the taxonomy work on that

252
00:11:54,985 --> 00:11:59,535
and renamed it Tobi Alinea to

253
00:12:00,205 --> 00:12:03,575
kind of celebrate John Allen's
work over the years. That's

254
00:12:03,575 --> 00:12:04,575
- Cool.

255
00:12:04,575 --> 00:12:07,535
That's cool. You know, the,
with, with many species, one

256
00:12:07,535 --> 00:12:10,615
of the things that
controls their geographic

257
00:12:11,775 --> 00:12:12,855
location is the fact

258
00:12:12,885 --> 00:12:15,735
that they work in any
particular bio region,

259
00:12:16,355 --> 00:12:19,535
but the wood lovers, the thing
that they have in common is,

260
00:12:20,035 --> 00:12:21,455
um, the habitat.

261
00:12:21,715 --> 00:12:25,295
And I would think that,
um, any ti anywhere

262
00:12:25,295 --> 00:12:27,695
that you're gonna find
one of these species, um,

263
00:12:28,375 --> 00:12:31,175
bringing in another wood
lover species is likely

264
00:12:31,555 --> 00:12:33,335
to catch on there as well,

265
00:12:33,335 --> 00:12:36,575
because what the, the habitat
they need is so similar.

266
00:12:36,795 --> 00:12:39,015
Is that a, is that a realistic
assumption I'm making?

267
00:12:39,585 --> 00:12:44,015
- Definitely. I've seen multiple
species in one location.

268
00:12:44,555 --> 00:12:46,055
So there's, they,

269
00:12:46,055 --> 00:12:48,015
they love the same
habitat for the most part.

270
00:12:48,285 --> 00:12:50,735
Some might like grassier areas, you know,

271
00:12:50,735 --> 00:12:53,855
the Azure essence is
typically found on the coast

272
00:12:54,945 --> 00:12:56,675
near wood and s grass.

273
00:12:57,135 --> 00:13:00,915
So there's different kind of symbiotic,

274
00:13:00,975 --> 00:13:02,945
or not symbiotic,

275
00:13:02,945 --> 00:13:06,025
but just synergistic kind of

276
00:13:07,535 --> 00:13:10,185
symbiosis of, uh, growing mediums.

277
00:13:11,085 --> 00:13:13,705
And so as long as you have wood, though,

278
00:13:13,705 --> 00:13:17,185
generally these varieties
are going to thrive right

279
00:13:17,185 --> 00:13:19,345
- On to, to anthropomorphize it.

280
00:13:19,615 --> 00:13:21,265
They, um, they, they, they,

281
00:13:21,265 --> 00:13:23,865
they may all be scientifically
love wood lovers,

282
00:13:23,865 --> 00:13:25,905
but they do have their own
personalities, <laugh>.

283
00:13:26,525 --> 00:13:27,865
- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely.

284
00:13:27,865 --> 00:13:30,545
Right on both, both,
both in, in, you know,

285
00:13:30,575 --> 00:13:33,545
what you get internally
as well as macroscopically

286
00:13:33,545 --> 00:13:35,225
or microscopically. Yeah.

287
00:13:35,845 --> 00:13:38,385
- So let, for, for most people,

288
00:13:38,525 --> 00:13:40,945
the reason why these wood levers matter

289
00:13:40,945 --> 00:13:43,185
and come up on their, on their radar is

290
00:13:43,185 --> 00:13:45,585
because they have psilocybin in them,

291
00:13:45,725 --> 00:13:48,905
and they are, um, you know,
they're hallucinogenic.

292
00:13:49,005 --> 00:13:51,945
And so whether or not
somebody is looking to have a,

293
00:13:51,965 --> 00:13:54,425
you know, a hallucinogenic
experience or whether

294
00:13:54,425 --> 00:13:57,145
or not they're looking to
microdose, it's that attribute

295
00:13:57,215 --> 00:13:59,225
that they are most interested in.

296
00:13:59,805 --> 00:14:03,985
And for me, you know, I
have come across, you know,

297
00:14:04,245 --> 00:14:06,665
all the other philosophy genus,

298
00:14:06,945 --> 00:14:09,025
mushrooms way more than I have come across

299
00:14:09,605 --> 00:14:12,265
the wood lovers in my own life, which is,

300
00:14:12,285 --> 00:14:13,585
you know, very variable.

301
00:14:13,585 --> 00:14:16,265
Like for example, where I
live on Vashon Island, if, if,

302
00:14:16,365 --> 00:14:19,145
if you were one of the kids
who grow, grew up here on vash,

303
00:14:19,145 --> 00:14:21,825
on the mushroom that
you've been most in contact

304
00:14:21,895 --> 00:14:23,065
with is senescence

305
00:14:23,065 --> 00:14:25,745
because they grow abundantly
here on the island.

306
00:14:26,405 --> 00:14:29,745
But like, I didn't live
somewhere where I knew, you know,

307
00:14:29,895 --> 00:14:31,945
that there were naturally
occurring mushrooms.

308
00:14:31,965 --> 00:14:34,945
So, so the mushrooms that
that I came across were all,

309
00:14:35,125 --> 00:14:36,465
uh, cultivated indoors.

310
00:14:36,725 --> 00:14:39,585
And so where I'm going with
this is that, um, I'm curious

311
00:14:39,605 --> 00:14:42,185
to know, you know, when you compare them,

312
00:14:42,885 --> 00:14:47,145
do the wood levers produce
psilocybin in, in comparison

313
00:14:47,445 --> 00:14:49,025
to the amounts of psilocybin

314
00:14:49,335 --> 00:14:53,005
that we find in other philosophy
cultivated varieties like,

315
00:14:53,005 --> 00:14:54,925
you know, golden teacher and penis envy?

316
00:14:54,925 --> 00:14:58,125
Like, like can they compete
with these very popular,

317
00:14:58,665 --> 00:15:00,085
uh, mushrooms on potency?

318
00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:05,055
- Oh, yeah. They're more
than likely more potent, uh,

319
00:15:05,055 --> 00:15:08,415
depending on the, the
species of the wood lovers.

320
00:15:08,555 --> 00:15:11,775
Mm. Azure essence sub is up

321
00:15:11,775 --> 00:15:13,975
to 1% more potent.

322
00:15:15,085 --> 00:15:17,985
Uh, when, you know, you're looking at, uh,

323
00:15:18,355 --> 00:15:22,225
super active species is
going to have about 1%,

324
00:15:23,335 --> 00:15:26,635
uh, psilocybin content in, uh, dried form.

325
00:15:27,495 --> 00:15:32,435
So if, um, you have almost a 1% degree

326
00:15:33,035 --> 00:15:37,875
increase in psilocybin content
from that initial potency

327
00:15:37,875 --> 00:15:40,755
of 1%, that's a, a significant amount.

328
00:15:41,675 --> 00:15:46,535
The thing that changes the
experience internally is all the

329
00:15:46,695 --> 00:15:48,175
precursors to psilocybin.

330
00:15:48,835 --> 00:15:53,815
So what's actually happening is, uh, soin

331
00:15:54,355 --> 00:15:57,735
is being phospho related in our body

332
00:15:57,955 --> 00:16:01,215
and, um, created into psilocybin.

333
00:16:01,755 --> 00:16:05,455
So this is, um, it depends.

334
00:16:05,875 --> 00:16:09,735
So es a lot of times have
equal parts psilocybin

335
00:16:09,735 --> 00:16:10,895
and equal parts osi.

336
00:16:11,395 --> 00:16:13,895
So this is why you're getting kind

337
00:16:13,895 --> 00:16:16,735
of an extreme experience
in ES a lot of times,

338
00:16:17,265 --> 00:16:19,975
which is different than some of the more

339
00:16:20,715 --> 00:16:22,295
potent wood lovers,

340
00:16:22,295 --> 00:16:27,215
because you have more
psilocybin than OSI in

341
00:16:27,215 --> 00:16:28,295
some of these wood lovers.

342
00:16:28,355 --> 00:16:31,895
So as we learn more

343
00:16:32,035 --> 00:16:36,735
and have more research in dialing
in, what, what's happening

344
00:16:36,735 --> 00:16:40,655
with these precursors in our
experience, uh, beo cysteine,

345
00:16:40,695 --> 00:16:42,855
neurobio cysteine are basically

346
00:16:43,445 --> 00:16:45,575
identical twins to serotonin.

347
00:16:46,035 --> 00:16:47,495
And these are all acting on our,

348
00:16:47,675 --> 00:16:49,215
the same serotonin receptor.

349
00:16:50,195 --> 00:16:54,295
We, we will find the,
you know, the potencies

350
00:16:54,875 --> 00:16:58,975
are different as we of
course, um, take them person

351
00:16:59,035 --> 00:17:01,495
to person, but also mushroom to mushroom

352
00:17:01,715 --> 00:17:02,855
and species to species,

353
00:17:03,125 --> 00:17:06,255
depending on those different
precursors and constituents.

354
00:17:06,745 --> 00:17:08,695
- Right On. If I understand you correctly,

355
00:17:08,765 --> 00:17:12,015
what I think you're, what
you're saying is that, um,

356
00:17:12,475 --> 00:17:14,855
you know, even though some

357
00:17:14,855 --> 00:17:19,735
of the wood lovers are more
potent in psilocybin, QEs

358
00:17:20,365 --> 00:17:23,815
have the experience of being
more potent for some people

359
00:17:23,815 --> 00:17:27,935
because the wood lovers
are very psilocybin rich,

360
00:17:27,935 --> 00:17:30,535
and psilocybin is a, what do they call it?

361
00:17:30,575 --> 00:17:33,695
A, a, a, a pro drug, which
means that it's, it's a drug

362
00:17:33,695 --> 00:17:34,695
that we take in our body,

363
00:17:34,715 --> 00:17:37,175
and then our body turns it into something

364
00:17:37,205 --> 00:17:40,615
that is actually the hallucinogen,
in this case, oc, right?

365
00:17:40,755 --> 00:17:44,255
So, so psilocybin is in the
mushroom and it's the pro drug,

366
00:17:44,715 --> 00:17:47,255
and then, and then we eat it,

367
00:17:47,275 --> 00:17:49,925
and our body turns it
into oc, which is really

368
00:17:49,995 --> 00:17:51,365
what gives the experience.

369
00:17:51,945 --> 00:17:55,205
And so ensis, instead
of it being, you know,

370
00:17:55,225 --> 00:17:58,565
80 20 psilocybin de soin, for example,

371
00:17:59,075 --> 00:18:02,325
it's more like 50 50, so
that when you take a ensis,

372
00:18:02,745 --> 00:18:06,565
you are having the experience
more intensely and faster

373
00:18:06,835 --> 00:18:10,125
because it's already
got OSI on board ready

374
00:18:10,225 --> 00:18:11,445
to give you an experience.

375
00:18:11,915 --> 00:18:14,525
- Exactly. I think I
said that backwards, uh,

376
00:18:14,525 --> 00:18:18,605
initially I said, uh, OSI
turns into psilocybin,

377
00:18:18,605 --> 00:18:20,285
but I, I meant, like you were saying,

378
00:18:20,375 --> 00:18:23,805
psilocybin being DFOs
related into psilocin. Right

379
00:18:23,805 --> 00:18:24,805
- On.

380
00:18:24,805 --> 00:18:26,885
Yeah. Um, honestly,
it's very helpful for me

381
00:18:26,885 --> 00:18:29,845
to hear the word soin, uh, stated

382
00:18:30,065 --> 00:18:32,165
by an actual mycologist too,

383
00:18:32,165 --> 00:18:35,405
because so many of us, we,
we learn from books, right?

384
00:18:35,905 --> 00:18:39,365
And so, um, uh, you know,
whe I've discussed this

385
00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:43,685
before on this show, whether
or not it was, uh, psin or soin

386
00:18:43,685 --> 00:18:45,645
or whatever, but I wasn't
talking with Mycologist

387
00:18:45,645 --> 00:18:46,525
and we're like, I don't know, and

388
00:18:46,525 --> 00:18:47,645
we're not the right people to ask,

389
00:18:48,465 --> 00:18:52,485
- You know, when it comes to
the Latin versions, I, no,

390
00:18:52,705 --> 00:18:55,485
no one's really an
expert on pronunciation.

391
00:18:55,705 --> 00:18:58,245
It, it kind of just goes
with <laugh>, what it,

392
00:18:58,685 --> 00:19:02,445
whatever feels comfortable
these days, soin or Sloan

393
00:19:02,625 --> 00:19:04,605
or, you know, however we say our tomato

394
00:19:04,625 --> 00:19:06,165
or tomato kind of thing. Right

395
00:19:06,165 --> 00:19:07,165
- On.

396
00:19:07,165 --> 00:19:07,445
Very good <laugh>. Yes.

397
00:19:07,905 --> 00:19:12,525
So, um, so if, if, if we call
wood lovers, wood lovers, um,

398
00:19:12,785 --> 00:19:15,085
are mushrooms that are not wood lovers,

399
00:19:15,085 --> 00:19:16,765
would we just call those like regular,

400
00:19:16,985 --> 00:19:20,285
or would we call them manure
lovers or grass lovers?

401
00:19:20,395 --> 00:19:23,285
It's just a simple way of how
to talk about this casually.

402
00:19:23,545 --> 00:19:26,925
Is it like wood lovers and
like regular mushrooms, or,

403
00:19:27,065 --> 00:19:30,045
or is wood lovers, so not
actually scientific that,

404
00:19:30,195 --> 00:19:32,725
that it wouldn't actually be
used in a conversation anyway.

405
00:19:33,675 --> 00:19:38,565
- I've kind of seen it as
wood lovers are categorized as

406
00:19:38,565 --> 00:19:42,005
that, and everything else is
kind of in its own category.

407
00:19:42,505 --> 00:19:44,885
You know, we talked about
being copper trophic

408
00:19:44,945 --> 00:19:48,845
or copper fillic, the, that's
kind of a technical term

409
00:19:48,985 --> 00:19:50,365
for manure lovers.

410
00:19:51,425 --> 00:19:56,405
So, you know, you could say
that those es in particular are

411
00:19:56,945 --> 00:19:59,145
copper trophic, but,

412
00:19:59,145 --> 00:20:00,425
but, um, I,

413
00:20:00,825 --> 00:20:03,945
I have never really diff
differentiated it like regular

414
00:20:04,385 --> 00:20:05,625
mushrooms or wood lovers.

415
00:20:05,765 --> 00:20:08,145
Um, they, they kind of
just are what they are.

416
00:20:08,485 --> 00:20:12,345
And I think as we progress
into research and,

417
00:20:13,205 --> 00:20:15,265
and knowing more about
these different species,

418
00:20:15,335 --> 00:20:18,545
that maybe different names
will come about. Right

419
00:20:18,545 --> 00:20:19,545
- On.

420
00:20:19,545 --> 00:20:22,065
So, um, I wanna, I wanna
save, um, more, most

421
00:20:22,085 --> 00:20:24,305
of our time from this
first set for the second

422
00:20:24,325 --> 00:20:26,385
and third set, which are
gonna be much longer due

423
00:20:26,385 --> 00:20:27,385
to the nature of the questions.

424
00:20:27,725 --> 00:20:29,305
But the, the last thing I wanna ask you

425
00:20:29,305 --> 00:20:31,785
before we go to our first
commercial break, and I,

426
00:20:31,785 --> 00:20:33,145
and I wanna readily admit

427
00:20:33,495 --> 00:20:35,865
that we may not have a
good answer for this.

428
00:20:36,045 --> 00:20:37,545
So if, so, if that's true
Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>,

429
00:20:37,545 --> 00:20:38,665
feel, feel free to say it.

430
00:20:39,085 --> 00:20:42,065
But, you know, like I want to
talk about like the secondary,

431
00:20:42,405 --> 00:20:44,385
uh, alkaloids in wood lovers.

432
00:20:44,645 --> 00:20:48,605
Um, you know, there's a lot of
excitement about, um, about,

433
00:20:48,865 --> 00:20:53,645
uh, the, the rest of the
philosophy genus in that, uh,

434
00:20:53,985 --> 00:20:56,405
you know, they, they've
got the, these aromatics

435
00:20:56,405 --> 00:20:59,925
and terpenes that we know
are so important in cannabis,

436
00:21:00,385 --> 00:21:04,605
and we're just now beginning
to study them in, in mushrooms.

437
00:21:04,945 --> 00:21:07,885
And then also there's all
these like secondary alkaloids

438
00:21:08,035 --> 00:21:11,485
that are, are rich and we can,
we can test for them in labs,

439
00:21:11,865 --> 00:21:13,445
but we don't really know what they do.

440
00:21:14,025 --> 00:21:18,245
And so my my question for you
is, um, are, is that same,

441
00:21:18,245 --> 00:21:21,525
does that same excitement
apply to wood lovers as well,

442
00:21:21,525 --> 00:21:24,525
that they've got this same, uh, aromatic

443
00:21:24,665 --> 00:21:29,285
and secondary, you know,
biochemical, um, story to tell

444
00:21:29,615 --> 00:21:33,685
where they too are, are
going to be receiving a lot

445
00:21:33,705 --> 00:21:35,885
of aromatic research to find out

446
00:21:36,115 --> 00:21:38,765
what on earth they're doing
other than just delivering us,

447
00:21:39,105 --> 00:21:40,165
uh, psilocybin?

448
00:21:41,525 --> 00:21:44,765
- I agree. I think all
mushrooms are in this category.

449
00:21:45,065 --> 00:21:47,725
You know, even if they're
culinary mushrooms

450
00:21:48,265 --> 00:21:51,045
or the functional mushrooms
as they call 'em today,

451
00:21:51,105 --> 00:21:54,005
lion's mane, uh, shiitakes

452
00:21:54,005 --> 00:21:57,045
and others very aromatic terpene rich.

453
00:21:58,285 --> 00:22:02,485
I think too, the, uh, the amino acids,

454
00:22:03,305 --> 00:22:05,725
um, deriving from Trytophan, uh,

455
00:22:05,945 --> 00:22:09,965
for these tryptamine alkaloids
are extremely exciting.

456
00:22:10,035 --> 00:22:12,565
There's all kinds of new
research that's happening.

457
00:22:12,955 --> 00:22:16,085
This is research that was done
clear back in the sixties by

458
00:22:16,725 --> 00:22:21,565
a friend of mine, Albert Lung
Long, um, discovered Beton

459
00:22:22,035 --> 00:22:23,205
with another colleague

460
00:22:24,305 --> 00:22:26,765
and, uh, a Paul, I believe his name is.

461
00:22:27,505 --> 00:22:30,085
And the research stopped.

462
00:22:30,265 --> 00:22:32,085
You know, it, we, we could have been

463
00:22:32,105 --> 00:22:35,885
so far along 40 years later,
practically, you know, 46, 50,

464
00:22:36,385 --> 00:22:37,405
almost 50 years.

465
00:22:37,945 --> 00:22:40,085
Uh, it's really sad.

466
00:22:40,145 --> 00:22:43,365
But now we're here and
I'm hopeful that yeah,

467
00:22:43,545 --> 00:22:47,925
we we're gonna find
more, uh, research, uh,

468
00:22:48,135 --> 00:22:50,965
we're gonna find more data
that's telling us, you know,

469
00:22:51,075 --> 00:22:54,045
exactly what all these
different amino acids are doing,

470
00:22:54,335 --> 00:22:57,245
maybe why they're there,
what the function is of it,

471
00:22:57,785 --> 00:23:00,085
and how can we use this in mental health

472
00:23:00,265 --> 00:23:03,405
and other things for our
physiological wellbeing.

473
00:23:03,595 --> 00:23:08,165
Wellbeing as well as like getting
to know ourselves and, um,

474
00:23:09,705 --> 00:23:12,805
and understanding who we really are

475
00:23:13,225 --> 00:23:14,765
and what we're doing on this planet.

476
00:23:16,055 --> 00:23:19,005
- Right on. So, alright,
so let's go ahead and,

477
00:23:19,005 --> 00:23:20,445
and take our first commercial break.

478
00:23:20,505 --> 00:23:23,525
So, so our first set was all
about like, you know, uh,

479
00:23:23,525 --> 00:23:25,125
getting to know what we're talking about

480
00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:26,165
today in the wood lovers.

481
00:23:26,265 --> 00:23:28,285
But during the second set,
we're gonna be starting

482
00:23:28,285 --> 00:23:31,045
to talk about, um, uh,
wildcraft cultivation.

483
00:23:31,045 --> 00:23:33,125
And in the third set
we're talking about, uh,

484
00:23:33,125 --> 00:23:34,245
at home cultivation.

485
00:23:34,305 --> 00:23:36,645
So, so we're gonna go ahead
and take this short break

486
00:23:36,665 --> 00:23:37,805
and we're gonna be right back.

487
00:23:37,985 --> 00:23:39,365
You're listening to Shaping Fire

488
00:23:39,425 --> 00:23:42,525
and my guest today is
Mycologist Christian Kalin.

489
00:23:42,665 --> 00:23:44,565
And, you know, without
these advertisers shaping

490
00:23:44,565 --> 00:23:45,690
fire would not happen.

491
00:23:45,745 --> 00:23:47,005
So please support them

492
00:23:47,025 --> 00:23:49,605
and let them know that you heard
about them on shaping fire.

493
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587
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588
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589
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591
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592
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596
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597
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598
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599
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600
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these trace nutrients are the difference

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604
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606
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608
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610
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619
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621
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623
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That's fish poop brand
Fish poop. Welcome back.

627
00:29:48,225 --> 00:29:49,565
You are listening to Shaping Fire.

628
00:29:49,805 --> 00:29:51,445
I am your host Shang Los,

629
00:29:51,705 --> 00:29:54,365
and my guest today is my
college Christian Kalin.

630
00:29:54,745 --> 00:29:57,045
So before the break we were
talking about wood lovers,

631
00:29:57,305 --> 00:29:58,645
who they are, what they are,

632
00:29:58,985 --> 00:30:03,405
and where we tend to
find them in literature,

633
00:30:03,785 --> 00:30:06,005
but now we're gonna
talk about where we tend

634
00:30:06,005 --> 00:30:07,245
to find them in the wild.

635
00:30:07,265 --> 00:30:09,365
So we're gonna talk more
about wildcrafting here.

636
00:30:09,585 --> 00:30:12,005
So, you know, Christian, I've,

637
00:30:12,405 --> 00:30:14,165
I personally have only ever heard

638
00:30:14,225 --> 00:30:16,645
of wood lovers being grown outside.

639
00:30:17,085 --> 00:30:18,365
Whenever I hear about wood lovers, uh,

640
00:30:18,365 --> 00:30:21,325
people are talking about
either wild crafting them,

641
00:30:21,355 --> 00:30:23,725
literally, you know, walking in the forest

642
00:30:23,785 --> 00:30:28,125
and looking for them or doing
a version of, I don't know,

643
00:30:28,275 --> 00:30:31,005
wild cultivation where
people are, you know,

644
00:30:31,005 --> 00:30:32,925
intentionally inoculating their yard.

645
00:30:33,145 --> 00:30:35,525
So, so, you know, they're
outside, they're not inside,

646
00:30:35,825 --> 00:30:37,885
but maybe they're one step less wild

647
00:30:37,885 --> 00:30:39,205
because they're, you know,

648
00:30:39,205 --> 00:30:41,325
because they're intentionally
inoculated or not.

649
00:30:41,385 --> 00:30:44,405
But, um, they always seem
to be more, you know,

650
00:30:44,495 --> 00:30:46,165
these wood lovers always seem to be more

651
00:30:46,165 --> 00:30:50,045
of a wild type mushroom versus
the ones growing indoors.

652
00:30:50,425 --> 00:30:52,965
Is there any like
scientific reality to that

653
00:30:52,985 --> 00:30:57,165
or is that just me and how
I've come to know wood lovers?

654
00:30:58,415 --> 00:31:01,555
- No, you're right. They, they
are generally found outdoors.

655
00:31:02,005 --> 00:31:05,075
There is, however, a
lot of experimentation

656
00:31:05,135 --> 00:31:06,915
that's been going on over the last decade

657
00:31:07,015 --> 00:31:11,635
or so, even maybe longer,
with trying to grow some

658
00:31:11,635 --> 00:31:16,195
of these varieties indoor
with decent success.

659
00:31:16,615 --> 00:31:18,395
It takes longer. You're, you have to go

660
00:31:18,395 --> 00:31:20,955
through like a multi-seasonal
kind of situation.

661
00:31:21,295 --> 00:31:22,395
So, uh,

662
00:31:22,495 --> 00:31:26,275
but for the most part, yes,
you're right, uh, found outside,

663
00:31:26,695 --> 00:31:31,675
uh, in the wild or in
landscape habitats as well

664
00:31:31,695 --> 00:31:36,075
as people intentionally
making patches outside. Right

665
00:31:36,095 --> 00:31:37,095
- On.

666
00:31:37,095 --> 00:31:40,435
So, so this habitat that
generally happens outdoors

667
00:31:40,435 --> 00:31:45,195
because it's, it, it it is,
it needs to have seasons

668
00:31:45,695 --> 00:31:47,875
and it needs to have a big span of time.

669
00:31:48,305 --> 00:31:51,955
What are these habitats that
are most conducive to the gross

670
00:31:52,495 --> 00:31:56,435
to the growth of wild wood
loving psilocybin mushrooms,

671
00:31:58,245 --> 00:32:02,855
- Hardwoods, deciduous
trees, the, those, uh,

672
00:32:02,945 --> 00:32:06,895
substrates are generally
any kind of wood substrate

673
00:32:07,955 --> 00:32:09,455
leaves that fall off trees

674
00:32:10,235 --> 00:32:13,335
and create more substrate.

675
00:32:13,985 --> 00:32:17,375
These are are places
where you'll find, um,

676
00:32:17,675 --> 00:32:19,655
the Azure essence actually,
like we talked about

677
00:32:19,655 --> 00:32:23,415
before, found on the beaches
out on the coast, connected

678
00:32:23,415 --> 00:32:27,935
to wood drift that's in the
sand more than likely on top

679
00:32:27,935 --> 00:32:30,015
of such grassroots.

680
00:32:31,185 --> 00:32:33,765
So yeah, but technically the,

681
00:32:33,945 --> 00:32:37,485
the habitats are generally
very similar grassy woody,

682
00:32:38,385 --> 00:32:41,855
and you wanna stay away from
the conifer evergreen wood

683
00:32:41,925 --> 00:32:43,295
that is too acidic.

684
00:32:43,805 --> 00:32:45,695
They, they, they don't do well.

685
00:32:45,695 --> 00:32:48,495
They're, you could combine if
you didn't have enough wood.

686
00:32:48,495 --> 00:32:50,455
Sometimes you can get away
with combining a little bit

687
00:32:50,455 --> 00:32:53,655
of hardwood with some conifer
chips to make patches work.

688
00:32:54,655 --> 00:32:56,535
I generally just found
around the deciduous trees.

689
00:32:56,605 --> 00:32:59,815
- Yeah, I have definitely
not found any success using,

690
00:33:00,195 --> 00:33:01,255
you know, pine chips

691
00:33:01,255 --> 00:33:03,495
before, you know, when I was a younger man

692
00:33:03,515 --> 00:33:05,175
and I did not realize the importance

693
00:33:05,175 --> 00:33:07,135
of the hardwood, I would get frustrated.

694
00:33:07,155 --> 00:33:09,015
I'm like, why, why isn't
there these, this, you know,

695
00:33:09,605 --> 00:33:11,055
pine tree <laugh> working

696
00:33:11,155 --> 00:33:13,815
and it's like, yeah, wrong,
wrong game Shang, go <laugh>.

697
00:33:14,125 --> 00:33:15,815
Yeah. Um, so, so, alright.

698
00:33:15,815 --> 00:33:18,735
So it sounds like, you know,
we're looking for edges

699
00:33:18,735 --> 00:33:22,335
of things like kind of
like where, where the,

700
00:33:22,515 --> 00:33:26,695
the coastal grasses meet the
coastal sand with wood and,

701
00:33:26,955 --> 00:33:30,415
and where the forest with the
forest duff meets the grass.

702
00:33:30,555 --> 00:33:32,895
And it, it sounds like
a lot of these are, are,

703
00:33:33,075 --> 00:33:37,255
are found in areas where
there's a transition

704
00:33:37,435 --> 00:33:40,615
and so there are different
varieties of nutrition

705
00:33:40,795 --> 00:33:42,535
and habitat involved. Yeah,

706
00:33:42,905 --> 00:33:43,905
- Definitely.

707
00:33:43,905 --> 00:33:46,735
They're secondary metabolizers
too, so they're used

708
00:33:46,735 --> 00:33:48,775
to being kind of second on the scene.

709
00:33:49,365 --> 00:33:51,775
They, they love to be the
first on the scene if you're

710
00:33:51,775 --> 00:33:53,175
intentionally trying to make patches

711
00:33:53,415 --> 00:33:55,055
and they'll do even better that way.

712
00:33:55,195 --> 00:33:59,935
But where you find them is
taking the last bits of the,

713
00:34:00,835 --> 00:34:05,335
of the substrate and digesting
it and then producing fungus

714
00:34:05,475 --> 00:34:06,655
or mushrooms from that.

715
00:34:07,035 --> 00:34:09,895
- So when you say not the
first one on the scene, um,

716
00:34:09,895 --> 00:34:13,055
you're talking about that there
are other mushroom varieties

717
00:34:13,055 --> 00:34:14,615
that are the first one
on the scene, right?

718
00:34:15,535 --> 00:34:18,145
- Yeah. Either microrisal that
are in the roots of the trees

719
00:34:18,145 --> 00:34:21,665
and plants or other
TROs that are competing

720
00:34:21,725 --> 00:34:24,705
for the top layer of lignin and cellulose.

721
00:34:24,995 --> 00:34:27,465
- Right on. I I've always
liked the idea of mushrooms

722
00:34:27,465 --> 00:34:28,945
that there's so many varieties

723
00:34:29,175 --> 00:34:31,225
that really excel when they're playing

724
00:34:31,255 --> 00:34:32,425
well with others, you know?

725
00:34:33,495 --> 00:34:37,545
- Yeah. I think you can have
some symbiotic relationships

726
00:34:37,545 --> 00:34:39,105
there that are synergistic

727
00:34:39,105 --> 00:34:40,385
and then you can have others

728
00:34:40,495 --> 00:34:43,345
that are definitely out
competing each other. Mm-Hmm.

729
00:34:43,385 --> 00:34:46,105
- <affirmative>. So let's
talk about, uh, the climate

730
00:34:46,245 --> 00:34:48,105
and seasonal, um, effects

731
00:34:48,105 --> 00:34:50,065
because, you know, that's one

732
00:34:50,065 --> 00:34:53,145
of the reasons why indoor
cultivation of wood lovers is

733
00:34:53,145 --> 00:34:56,705
so challenging and why
people work so meticulously

734
00:34:57,325 --> 00:35:01,665
to try to, um, you know,
make a synthetic environment

735
00:35:01,665 --> 00:35:04,385
that replicates these seasons indoors.

736
00:35:04,605 --> 00:35:07,345
So, so, you know, what is their, what

737
00:35:07,345 --> 00:35:10,785
what is the mushrooms
lifecycle, uh, generally

738
00:35:11,045 --> 00:35:12,945
and when do they fruit and,

739
00:35:13,005 --> 00:35:16,145
and what kind of environmental
conditions do they like?

740
00:35:16,315 --> 00:35:18,425
Other than just purely the location

741
00:35:18,425 --> 00:35:19,585
that we've already discussed?

742
00:35:21,125 --> 00:35:24,375
- They, yeah, they can
be very finicky, uh,

743
00:35:24,375 --> 00:35:26,015
when you're trying to cultivate them.

744
00:35:27,695 --> 00:35:28,735
Mushrooms in general, a lot

745
00:35:28,735 --> 00:35:31,815
of times I've noticed when
people stress out trying

746
00:35:31,815 --> 00:35:34,015
to grow them, they want
'em to grow so bad.

747
00:35:34,485 --> 00:35:37,365
Sometimes I feel like this is too much

748
00:35:37,365 --> 00:35:39,205
of a stressful environment
on the organism.

749
00:35:39,465 --> 00:35:41,605
It sounds crazy, but yeah.

750
00:35:41,865 --> 00:35:45,565
Uh, um, just letting, like trying to see

751
00:35:45,565 --> 00:35:47,965
what happens in nature and
mimicking that same thing.

752
00:35:48,475 --> 00:35:52,445
Basically just setting
up, you know, knowing

753
00:35:52,515 --> 00:35:53,645
what the species is.

754
00:35:53,705 --> 00:35:55,725
So basically breaking it back down into

755
00:35:55,725 --> 00:35:56,765
three different categories.

756
00:35:56,765 --> 00:35:59,605
You need a, a good culture, something

757
00:35:59,605 --> 00:36:01,005
that you've either found in the wild,

758
00:36:01,065 --> 00:36:02,725
you can do stem butt transfers.

759
00:36:02,865 --> 00:36:05,565
Uh, you take the, the roots
off the bottom of the stem,

760
00:36:05,665 --> 00:36:08,045
put it into wet cardboard
or other substrates

761
00:36:08,045 --> 00:36:10,285
and let that culture kind of grow through

762
00:36:11,265 --> 00:36:15,885
and, um, transplant that
into other new substrates.

763
00:36:17,025 --> 00:36:20,805
Um, you know, there's,
uh, places out there

764
00:36:20,805 --> 00:36:22,085
where you can start with spores.

765
00:36:22,185 --> 00:36:25,165
You know, spores generally
are legal, so you can,

766
00:36:25,505 --> 00:36:29,445
if you know what you're
doing, um, you can, you know,

767
00:36:29,495 --> 00:36:30,685
start from spore

768
00:36:30,905 --> 00:36:33,845
and then have that
broadcast out into a patch.

769
00:36:33,905 --> 00:36:35,765
But generally, um, most

770
00:36:35,765 --> 00:36:38,005
of these wood lovers fruit in the fall.

771
00:36:38,145 --> 00:36:41,325
So you want to time it
either six months to a year

772
00:36:41,385 --> 00:36:44,525
before that harvest date.

773
00:36:45,145 --> 00:36:47,165
- So before we go too
far into the cultivation,

774
00:36:47,325 --> 00:36:49,725
'cause all of third set is
gonna be about cultivation.

775
00:36:49,915 --> 00:36:51,885
Okay. I wanna, I want to, I want to, uh,

776
00:36:51,885 --> 00:36:56,285
narrow our scope a little bit
specifically about the seasons

777
00:36:56,945 --> 00:37:00,325
and, um, you know, we have,
we have mentioned, you know,

778
00:37:00,325 --> 00:37:02,765
that there's a whole bunch in
the Pacific Northwest, right?

779
00:37:02,765 --> 00:37:05,445
Which, which tells me they
like moisture a lot, right?

780
00:37:05,865 --> 00:37:08,805
And then there, then there
are varieties like the ovoids,

781
00:37:08,805 --> 00:37:11,325
which are coastal east coast, right?

782
00:37:11,615 --> 00:37:14,925
Which also tells me that
they really like wet.

783
00:37:15,225 --> 00:37:17,445
Um, but then you were talking about, um,

784
00:37:18,075 --> 00:37:19,685
some variety earlier in the show

785
00:37:20,055 --> 00:37:22,325
where they're actually in the Midwest.

786
00:37:22,945 --> 00:37:24,645
And so, um, uh,

787
00:37:25,195 --> 00:37:29,365
what is going on climate wise
in all three of these places,

788
00:37:29,895 --> 00:37:31,725
which, which, um, you know,

789
00:37:31,725 --> 00:37:34,005
creates this great
environment for wood lovers.

790
00:37:35,855 --> 00:37:40,435
- The, the wood lovers love
a cold snap, a winter kind

791
00:37:40,435 --> 00:37:44,435
of situation with, like
you're saying, a humid,

792
00:37:44,745 --> 00:37:45,955
nice, wet environment.

793
00:37:46,895 --> 00:37:51,475
So if you don't have this
cold snap seasonally,

794
00:37:52,225 --> 00:37:56,155
this can change your harvest
year to year in your wild, uh,

795
00:37:56,695 --> 00:38:00,035
you know, your wild harvesting foraging.

796
00:38:00,975 --> 00:38:05,355
Or also when you're intentionally
trying to make patches,

797
00:38:06,595 --> 00:38:08,095
um, that timing of

798
00:38:08,435 --> 00:38:11,215
how your mycelium is digesting your patch,

799
00:38:11,315 --> 00:38:13,615
how much food source you
know, you've given it.

800
00:38:13,765 --> 00:38:16,695
There's a lot that goes into the timing

801
00:38:17,635 --> 00:38:19,935
of both your mycelium
growing in the substrate

802
00:38:20,035 --> 00:38:21,895
and the seasonality of your season.

803
00:38:21,925 --> 00:38:25,895
It's, it's not always
certain that you're going

804
00:38:25,895 --> 00:38:27,975
to get mushrooms, you're playing outside,

805
00:38:28,315 --> 00:38:29,815
is playing with nature.

806
00:38:29,915 --> 00:38:32,095
You're playing with
nature both in the culture

807
00:38:32,355 --> 00:38:36,165
and in your temperature
and humidity outside.

808
00:38:36,385 --> 00:38:39,325
So basically setting up a patch,

809
00:38:39,355 --> 00:38:42,085
like we'll probably talk about
here in a little bit, will,

810
00:38:42,745 --> 00:38:45,405
um, the, the location, your culture

811
00:38:46,265 --> 00:38:50,205
and the substrate are the three
main issues with setting up,

812
00:38:50,385 --> 00:38:52,425
uh, a, uh,

813
00:38:54,105 --> 00:38:57,545
- A - Patch a a patch that is,
um, going to be successful.

814
00:38:57,925 --> 00:39:01,825
- Do we know why the cold snap
is so relevant to the fungus?

815
00:39:01,985 --> 00:39:03,345
I mean, I'm, there's, I'm guessing

816
00:39:03,345 --> 00:39:06,145
that there's some mechanism
internal to the mushroom

817
00:39:06,655 --> 00:39:10,065
that without the cold snap, it
doesn't have the gumption to,

818
00:39:10,565 --> 00:39:13,465
um, fruit as much, um, when it's time.

819
00:39:14,885 --> 00:39:16,535
- Yeah, there's a lot of,

820
00:39:16,535 --> 00:39:18,335
even culinary mushrooms are similar.

821
00:39:18,605 --> 00:39:22,335
Shiitakes rely on a cold kind of, uh,

822
00:39:22,985 --> 00:39:26,135
primordial stage where the mycelium needs

823
00:39:26,135 --> 00:39:27,255
to get almost shocked.

824
00:39:27,635 --> 00:39:30,415
Uh, it needs to come out
of its normal character,

825
00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:35,255
and then that stresses the
mycelium out to induce fruiting.

826
00:39:35,555 --> 00:39:36,655
So these are,

827
00:39:37,555 --> 00:39:40,575
and this can be oxygen
related, CO2 related,

828
00:39:40,575 --> 00:39:42,615
temperature related or humidity related.

829
00:39:43,515 --> 00:39:44,535
So a lot goes into it

830
00:39:45,005 --> 00:39:46,175
- Similarly, you know, there,

831
00:39:46,175 --> 00:39:49,095
there these mushrooms like the moisture,

832
00:39:49,515 --> 00:39:52,015
but then there's a certain
point when there's so much rain

833
00:39:52,165 --> 00:39:54,655
that, um, that the mushrooms
are done for the season.

834
00:39:54,655 --> 00:39:57,575
Right. So do we have any understanding of,

835
00:39:57,675 --> 00:40:01,135
of why the mushrooms
like, you know, X amount

836
00:40:01,155 --> 00:40:04,295
of moisture versus x plus moisture?

837
00:40:04,595 --> 00:40:07,575
Uh, like do we understand
it all what the biology is

838
00:40:07,735 --> 00:40:10,575
where the, the, the mushroom
finally says, all right,

839
00:40:10,575 --> 00:40:12,055
there's just too much rain, we're done.

840
00:40:13,355 --> 00:40:16,575
- You know, it's a lot of
times temperature instead of

841
00:40:17,175 --> 00:40:19,975
moisture that terminates
the end of the season.

842
00:40:21,105 --> 00:40:24,155
I've found the yes, if you have kind of,

843
00:40:24,415 --> 00:40:26,355
if you have an intentional patch outside

844
00:40:26,945 --> 00:40:30,555
that isn't deep in like, you know, a foot

845
00:40:30,575 --> 00:40:33,555
or more of substrate, then
you're more susceptible

846
00:40:33,575 --> 00:40:35,995
to either drying out with lack of water

847
00:40:36,535 --> 00:40:39,395
or being too swamped with too much water.

848
00:40:40,215 --> 00:40:44,555
But the wild varieties are just in nature.

849
00:40:45,425 --> 00:40:48,995
They're, they're more permeable
to these fluctuations.

850
00:40:50,055 --> 00:40:52,075
And as long as it doesn't freeze, freeze,

851
00:40:52,145 --> 00:40:55,075
like a heart freeze generally
is what terminates the season.

852
00:40:56,255 --> 00:40:57,875
- You know? That makes
a lot of sense to me.

853
00:40:57,995 --> 00:41:00,075
I, I actually saw the biggest, um,

854
00:41:00,515 --> 00:41:02,395
sene essence patch I have ever personally

855
00:41:02,585 --> 00:41:04,555
seen, um, this year.

856
00:41:04,975 --> 00:41:08,395
And I was really surprised
to find it in, um,

857
00:41:08,655 --> 00:41:09,875
in January, right?

858
00:41:09,875 --> 00:41:11,395
Because that's awfully late here

859
00:41:11,535 --> 00:41:13,635
for the Pacific Northwest
for Senes essence.

860
00:41:14,055 --> 00:41:15,115
And my friend called me over

861
00:41:15,115 --> 00:41:16,835
and said, here, you gotta
come over and check this out.

862
00:41:16,895 --> 00:41:18,315
And, and it ended up being this, like,

863
00:41:18,315 --> 00:41:20,195
this very large outcropping,

864
00:41:20,245 --> 00:41:22,795
maybe like 10 feet by eight feet.

865
00:41:22,855 --> 00:41:24,875
And it was just like, just like, you know,

866
00:41:25,595 --> 00:41:26,875
I probably shouldn't say thousands,

867
00:41:26,875 --> 00:41:28,955
but like a whole bunch <laugh> were,

868
00:41:28,955 --> 00:41:30,635
were there like the most I've ever seen.

869
00:41:31,215 --> 00:41:33,405
And, and I said, what, you
know, I was, you know, as a,

870
00:41:33,405 --> 00:41:35,925
as a citizen scientist,
I'm like, what, what, what,

871
00:41:35,925 --> 00:41:37,045
what's different here?

872
00:41:37,215 --> 00:41:38,605
Right? Um, yeah.

873
00:41:38,825 --> 00:41:41,605
And, and, and then my friend
told me, oh, you know,

874
00:41:41,645 --> 00:41:43,005
I had this tarp on here

875
00:41:43,705 --> 00:41:46,485
and, uh, uh, uh, uh,
over all these wood chips

876
00:41:46,485 --> 00:41:47,645
to keep the wood dry.

877
00:41:47,645 --> 00:41:49,925
And then they pulled off
the tarp and there it was.

878
00:41:50,145 --> 00:41:53,845
And so nice. The tarp was
providing this extension

879
00:41:54,065 --> 00:41:58,565
of warmth, and then the ground
was all soaked with water,

880
00:41:58,785 --> 00:42:02,525
but the, the mushroom fruiting
bodies were not soaked,

881
00:42:02,525 --> 00:42:04,325
which can, you know,
often lead to rotting.

882
00:42:04,325 --> 00:42:06,165
And so, uh, it was amazing

883
00:42:06,225 --> 00:42:09,485
how a tarp unintentionally put on

884
00:42:10,325 --> 00:42:14,445
a woodchip pile, actually
created this perfect environment

885
00:42:14,465 --> 00:42:17,285
for the extension of their
fruiting phase, which,

886
00:42:17,575 --> 00:42:19,405
which was just exceptional to see.

887
00:42:20,275 --> 00:42:24,405
- Yeah. That, or cardboard,
some people layer with straw.

888
00:42:25,325 --> 00:42:29,045
Anything to kind give a little
bit of a insulative barrier

889
00:42:29,465 --> 00:42:31,245
to the extreme temperatures

890
00:42:31,385 --> 00:42:33,925
or fluctuations in
moisture will help a lot.

891
00:42:34,625 --> 00:42:38,365
If you don't have a treat
area that is a natural canopy

892
00:42:38,385 --> 00:42:40,885
to kind of protect your
patch from the sunlight

893
00:42:41,585 --> 00:42:44,125
in the summertime or the
rains in the wintertime,

894
00:42:44,795 --> 00:42:45,965
then tarping

895
00:42:46,025 --> 00:42:50,605
or cardboard can greatly increase
the success of your patch.

896
00:42:51,805 --> 00:42:53,905
- So, you know, the, these,
these mushrooms, you know,

897
00:42:53,905 --> 00:42:55,105
we call 'em wood lovers, right?

898
00:42:55,165 --> 00:42:58,025
But, but do we know why they like wood?

899
00:42:58,125 --> 00:42:59,305
Is there some, I mean,

900
00:42:59,305 --> 00:43:02,065
clearly there is some attribute
in wood that, for example,

901
00:43:02,225 --> 00:43:05,785
a appears in hardwoods that
doesn't appear in soft softwoods

902
00:43:05,785 --> 00:43:08,825
that they, that, that these mushrooms, um,

903
00:43:09,365 --> 00:43:10,545
you know, appreciate.

904
00:43:11,085 --> 00:43:13,345
Do we know what this attribute is,

905
00:43:13,345 --> 00:43:16,545
which creates this like
symbiosis between, um,

906
00:43:16,755 --> 00:43:20,865
these philosophy mushrooms
and um, and hardwood trees?

907
00:43:22,285 --> 00:43:27,015
- You know, I've noticed
hardwoods seem to be a little, um,

908
00:43:28,135 --> 00:43:30,735
conduced, you know, they, you see a lot

909
00:43:30,735 --> 00:43:32,695
of different organisms growing on

910
00:43:32,695 --> 00:43:34,215
hardwoods compared to conifers.

911
00:43:34,245 --> 00:43:35,975
Look at all the lichens, you know,

912
00:43:35,975 --> 00:43:39,415
I was just noticing the other
day how many lichen you see

913
00:43:40,075 --> 00:43:42,615
all over deciduous trees in the northwest

914
00:43:43,055 --> 00:43:44,335
compared to conifers.

915
00:43:44,915 --> 00:43:47,935
Um, I, like I was saying, I
think there's some kind of a pH

916
00:43:48,605 --> 00:43:50,015
acid kind of thing happening.

917
00:43:50,505 --> 00:43:54,455
Maybe there's more to
it with the, the resins

918
00:43:54,795 --> 00:43:58,615
and the different protective
layers that conifer trees have,

919
00:43:58,995 --> 00:44:00,815
uh, compared to the deciduous trees.

920
00:44:00,835 --> 00:44:03,895
But that's a great question.
I, I'm uncertain. Right

921
00:44:03,895 --> 00:44:04,895
- On.

922
00:44:04,895 --> 00:44:07,375
So there's another aspect
of it, um, where people

923
00:44:07,515 --> 00:44:11,255
so often find, um, you
know, these mushrooms

924
00:44:11,255 --> 00:44:15,375
and others, including for
where I live, morels, um, when,

925
00:44:15,645 --> 00:44:17,735
when humans get involved
with nature, right?

926
00:44:17,735 --> 00:44:20,015
Like, like my first time ever having

927
00:44:20,575 --> 00:44:22,775
a mushroom outcropping on my own property,

928
00:44:22,775 --> 00:44:26,215
fruiting bodies was when we
got a whole bunch of wood chips

929
00:44:26,355 --> 00:44:27,415
for our garden.

930
00:44:28,155 --> 00:44:30,535
And, and then in, in
the spring it was like,

931
00:44:30,535 --> 00:44:32,005
boom, all these morels.

932
00:44:32,005 --> 00:44:34,045
And I, you know, I felt like, like wealthy

933
00:44:34,185 --> 00:44:36,845
and abundant, you know,
being able to have a,

934
00:44:36,925 --> 00:44:39,605
a five gallon bucket full
of, full of more morales.

935
00:44:39,625 --> 00:44:40,805
I'm all like, man, this is great.

936
00:44:41,225 --> 00:44:45,085
Um, but I, I think that is
also one of the attributes

937
00:44:45,145 --> 00:44:46,285
of wood lovers, isn't it?

938
00:44:46,285 --> 00:44:50,165
Where, where if, if, if
humans are, are messing

939
00:44:50,315 --> 00:44:53,605
with the wood that, that the

940
00:44:54,275 --> 00:44:58,165
wood lovers are in a symbiotic
relationship with it,

941
00:44:58,165 --> 00:44:59,565
they're more likely to fruit.

942
00:45:00,905 --> 00:45:04,635
- Yeah. Like we're, I
definitely, there's this crazy

943
00:45:05,995 --> 00:45:10,315
thing with senescence where,
you know, in the wild,

944
00:45:10,315 --> 00:45:13,115
there's some kind of spore
load in the alder trees,

945
00:45:13,135 --> 00:45:15,635
but you'll never find
senescence in an alder grove.

946
00:45:15,855 --> 00:45:19,635
It, it takes humans
interaction, taking the alder,

947
00:45:19,715 --> 00:45:22,875
chopping it down, chipping
it, taking those chips,

948
00:45:23,445 --> 00:45:24,675
using it in landscape,

949
00:45:25,015 --> 00:45:28,675
and then there's this spore
load is what a lot of us think

950
00:45:29,865 --> 00:45:34,115
that is in the bark or in
a dead area of the bark.

951
00:45:34,215 --> 00:45:36,475
And then as we chip, we're
spreading these spores,

952
00:45:36,475 --> 00:45:37,875
and then the mycelium starts.

953
00:45:37,975 --> 00:45:39,315
And this is how we're finding these

954
00:45:39,515 --> 00:45:40,715
senescence in landscaping.

955
00:45:42,095 --> 00:45:45,275
- So like, I know I'm about to
ask you to make a, you know,

956
00:45:45,315 --> 00:45:46,435
like a little conjecture here,

957
00:45:46,435 --> 00:45:47,715
and I'm, I'm comfortable with that.

958
00:45:47,785 --> 00:45:49,635
Like, you've got a deep
science background,

959
00:45:49,635 --> 00:45:51,435
but I'm asking for a
little bit opinion here.

960
00:45:52,025 --> 00:45:54,355
Like, like what do you think
this tells us about the

961
00:45:54,635 --> 00:45:57,315
ecological role of wood lovers?

962
00:45:57,345 --> 00:46:00,395
Like, it, it, what you
describe them, it, it,

963
00:46:00,455 --> 00:46:02,675
it sounds like a job they're doing, right?

964
00:46:02,905 --> 00:46:05,555
It's like, it's like, it's
like, it was like, oh, you know,

965
00:46:05,555 --> 00:46:08,155
wood lovers have got a
job to do in nature when,

966
00:46:08,345 --> 00:46:10,315
when trees are damaged or something.

967
00:46:10,315 --> 00:46:13,035
Like, like you have a lot
of experience with these,

968
00:46:13,035 --> 00:46:14,595
these particular types of mushrooms.

969
00:46:14,595 --> 00:46:16,035
What is it vibe like to you?

970
00:46:17,895 --> 00:46:22,265
- I, I have a strong feeling
that the genus philosophy,

971
00:46:23,525 --> 00:46:28,305
we have this relationship,
it's this, it's,

972
00:46:28,565 --> 00:46:32,305
it predates our relationship
with the bovine with the cows.

973
00:46:32,305 --> 00:46:34,625
You know, that's the longest
relationship we've had

974
00:46:34,625 --> 00:46:35,825
with any other organism.

975
00:46:36,765 --> 00:46:40,145
And there's something there
that we still are missing.

976
00:46:40,705 --> 00:46:42,105
I, you know, I'm uncertain.

977
00:46:42,465 --> 00:46:46,785
I am excited by these
wonders and mysteries

978
00:46:46,965 --> 00:46:49,025
and, you know,

979
00:46:49,975 --> 00:46:54,825
just understanding all the
different species on the earth is

980
00:46:54,865 --> 00:46:58,465
a multi-generational task
on top of the constituents

981
00:46:58,805 --> 00:47:01,025
and all the different
cool things about each

982
00:47:01,025 --> 00:47:03,025
of those mushrooms and
what we're gonna find.

983
00:47:03,295 --> 00:47:05,265
It's just, it's amazing to me. Yeah.

984
00:47:05,765 --> 00:47:07,905
- One of the things that I
find interesting about, um,

985
00:47:08,265 --> 00:47:11,625
studying wood lovers is,
um, you really need to have

986
00:47:12,265 --> 00:47:15,465
patience, um, in a way that like kind

987
00:47:15,465 --> 00:47:18,345
of old school science
ISTs used to have patience

988
00:47:18,345 --> 00:47:19,945
because since, um,

989
00:47:19,975 --> 00:47:23,585
wood lovers have not very
successfully been brought into

990
00:47:23,645 --> 00:47:27,025
indoor cultivation, you
actually ha, you know, you have

991
00:47:27,025 --> 00:47:29,485
to set up your experiment,
whatever it might be,

992
00:47:29,825 --> 00:47:32,205
and then you have to let
the whole season go through

993
00:47:32,385 --> 00:47:34,325
and then you see what the mushrooms do.

994
00:47:34,745 --> 00:47:38,165
It reminds me a lot of how,
um, I mean, we still do,

995
00:47:38,185 --> 00:47:41,405
but how people primarily used
to breed cannabis, right?

996
00:47:41,775 --> 00:47:44,445
Where, um, you know, you were,
you were doing your cannabis

997
00:47:44,445 --> 00:47:46,925
through your full cycle and,

998
00:47:47,065 --> 00:47:49,565
and then when you got your
new seeds, then you, you know,

999
00:47:49,565 --> 00:47:52,205
would do that again the
following year outdoors, right?

1000
00:47:52,545 --> 00:47:56,205
And so you were really only
doing, um, you know, one,

1001
00:47:56,425 --> 00:47:59,485
one experiment or one
breeding project a summer

1002
00:47:59,635 --> 00:48:02,605
because you, you were
doing this in cooperation

1003
00:48:02,605 --> 00:48:03,725
with, with cycles.

1004
00:48:03,725 --> 00:48:06,765
And then eventually
lighting, um, got improved

1005
00:48:06,785 --> 00:48:09,765
and we brought, we brought the,
the cannabis plants indoors.

1006
00:48:10,105 --> 00:48:12,325
And so we started being
able to do, you know, three

1007
00:48:12,325 --> 00:48:14,845
or four cycles in a year
instead of just one.

1008
00:48:15,105 --> 00:48:18,365
And then now we're breeding
with, you know, spreadsheets

1009
00:48:18,365 --> 00:48:21,285
and laboratory, and I'm not
talking about genetic modified

1010
00:48:21,285 --> 00:48:24,565
particularly just, just
like, you know, analytically

1011
00:48:25,115 --> 00:48:27,925
supported cannabis where,
where you can, you know,

1012
00:48:27,985 --> 00:48:31,005
and you can take these plants and, and

1013
00:48:31,225 --> 00:48:35,165
and, uh, breed them a lot
faster, taking that example

1014
00:48:35,345 --> 00:48:37,125
and cross applying it to mushrooms.

1015
00:48:37,475 --> 00:48:40,125
It's interesting because so
many mushrooms can be, can be

1016
00:48:40,725 --> 00:48:44,125
isolated and bred so
quickly in a home lab,

1017
00:48:44,665 --> 00:48:48,245
but the, the, the wood lovers
are going like, no, we're,

1018
00:48:48,245 --> 00:48:51,405
we're gonna do this outside our way only.

1019
00:48:52,065 --> 00:48:55,005
And, um, uh, you know, I'm
sure that frustrates a lot

1020
00:48:55,005 --> 00:48:57,045
of wood loving scientists.

1021
00:48:57,505 --> 00:49:02,045
Um, but I, I find that
interesting stubborn nature

1022
00:49:02,185 --> 00:49:05,645
of the wood lovers to be like,
kind of a charming trait.

1023
00:49:06,565 --> 00:49:09,415
- Yeah, definitely. I, I like
that analogy with cannabis.

1024
00:49:09,595 --> 00:49:10,735
It was, you took me

1025
00:49:10,735 --> 00:49:12,575
to the dark ages there
for a second, <laugh>.

1026
00:49:12,575 --> 00:49:15,015
That was the, but you're
right, you're right.

1027
00:49:15,435 --> 00:49:16,535
As interest

1028
00:49:16,995 --> 00:49:21,895
and ambition kind of
pushes technology, uh,

1029
00:49:22,095 --> 00:49:25,015
I think for sure the wood
lovers are saprotrophic.

1030
00:49:25,075 --> 00:49:27,855
So they, we know that, you
know, we can grow them,

1031
00:49:27,875 --> 00:49:31,495
we can cultivate them,
but they're like the op

1032
00:49:32,015 --> 00:49:33,655
opportunistic morale,
like you were saying,

1033
00:49:33,655 --> 00:49:36,535
that it takes just the right combination

1034
00:49:36,535 --> 00:49:37,855
of different seasonality

1035
00:49:37,955 --> 00:49:40,215
and substrates to make that all happen.

1036
00:49:41,115 --> 00:49:44,175
And I'm sure as people
experiment with different things,

1037
00:49:44,205 --> 00:49:47,255
just like cords, you know,
we weren't cultivating cords,

1038
00:49:47,355 --> 00:49:48,615
uh, not too long ago.

1039
00:49:49,355 --> 00:49:51,575
And as people experiment
with all the different things

1040
00:49:51,575 --> 00:49:54,855
that we kind of break these
little codes of cultivation,

1041
00:49:55,105 --> 00:49:57,015
which is fun and exciting.

1042
00:49:57,715 --> 00:50:00,735
- So in the wild, which is,
you know, my main interest

1043
00:50:00,765 --> 00:50:04,615
with these, um, wood lovers
since, um, since, you know,

1044
00:50:04,805 --> 00:50:05,815
it's fun to find them.

1045
00:50:06,005 --> 00:50:07,935
They're free when you find them out there.

1046
00:50:08,595 --> 00:50:12,215
And, uh, and uh, it always
feels like I'm getting away

1047
00:50:12,215 --> 00:50:14,575
with something when I find
something out in nature

1048
00:50:14,645 --> 00:50:16,455
that we typically pay for, right?

1049
00:50:16,725 --> 00:50:19,775
Like I, it doesn't matter if
it's a culinary mushroom or,

1050
00:50:20,115 --> 00:50:23,215
or, you know, bringing in nettle outside

1051
00:50:23,235 --> 00:50:24,495
to make ravioli or something.

1052
00:50:24,495 --> 00:50:26,815
Right. I totally feel like I'm
getting like something from

1053
00:50:26,815 --> 00:50:28,565
nature for free, which is pretty dope.

1054
00:50:29,065 --> 00:50:31,285
Um, are there any companion plants

1055
00:50:31,465 --> 00:50:35,125
or other fungi that we will often find

1056
00:50:35,715 --> 00:50:38,085
with the wood loving psilocybin mushrooms?

1057
00:50:38,175 --> 00:50:42,445
Other than, um, you know,
just generally hardwood trees?

1058
00:50:44,655 --> 00:50:47,665
- Yeah, I, you know, just the grasses

1059
00:50:47,965 --> 00:50:49,585
and some of the vegetation helps

1060
00:50:49,585 --> 00:50:51,865
because it opens up the airways

1061
00:50:51,865 --> 00:50:55,385
and the substrate, you know,
so if you have some plant life

1062
00:50:56,055 --> 00:50:58,905
that have root systems
that can help in that,

1063
00:50:59,665 --> 00:51:00,825
I think those can help.

1064
00:51:02,005 --> 00:51:04,305
Um, yeah,

1065
00:51:05,005 --> 00:51:07,225
- But it's not, but it
isn't as kind of, it's not,

1066
00:51:07,325 --> 00:51:09,625
it sounds like it's not
as specific as like, oh,

1067
00:51:09,975 --> 00:51:12,865
this variety of grass is necessary

1068
00:51:13,165 --> 00:51:15,705
for the fruiting cycle of the mushroom.

1069
00:51:15,735 --> 00:51:17,545
Like we find that in
other types of species,

1070
00:51:17,685 --> 00:51:20,385
but there really isn't any
kind of companion plant that's,

1071
00:51:20,385 --> 00:51:23,185
that's necessary to those
cycle. I'm, I'm hearing.

1072
00:51:24,155 --> 00:51:25,565
- Yeah, not necessarily.

1073
00:51:25,805 --> 00:51:29,645
I mean, I've, I've had Azure
essence grow in normal grass,

1074
00:51:29,905 --> 00:51:31,965
not sedge grass, you know, so they,

1075
00:51:32,365 --> 00:51:34,645
I don't think they're
particular to sedge grass.

1076
00:51:34,755 --> 00:51:36,485
They just were opportunistic with

1077
00:51:36,485 --> 00:51:38,445
what was there in their
habitat. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

1078
00:51:39,065 --> 00:51:43,085
- So we certainly won't be
able to teach identification

1079
00:51:43,105 --> 00:51:44,925
of wood lovers on this, you know,

1080
00:51:44,985 --> 00:51:46,965
in an audio only program today.

1081
00:51:46,965 --> 00:51:47,965
Right. Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

1082
00:51:47,965 --> 00:51:51,005
Um, so for, for folks who
are very interested in,

1083
00:51:51,145 --> 00:51:54,365
in the wood, uh, for the, excuse
me, the wild crafting, um,

1084
00:51:55,065 --> 00:51:57,405
you know, just for the
joy of mushroom hunting

1085
00:51:57,625 --> 00:52:01,125
and perhaps for the actual taking of,

1086
00:52:01,265 --> 00:52:04,445
of the natural bounty, um, uh,

1087
00:52:06,775 --> 00:52:10,385
what are the, the signs
that we would look for

1088
00:52:10,645 --> 00:52:14,105
to know when a, a wild wood lover is,

1089
00:52:14,165 --> 00:52:15,505
is ready to be harvested?

1090
00:52:16,085 --> 00:52:18,945
Um, is it, is it as soon
as you can identify it

1091
00:52:19,085 --> 00:52:20,745
or is there a certain point

1092
00:52:20,875 --> 00:52:22,905
where like if you come across a patch

1093
00:52:23,045 --> 00:52:25,665
and you identify it as,
for example, sin essence,

1094
00:52:25,665 --> 00:52:27,825
where you're like, like,
that's what these are,

1095
00:52:28,125 --> 00:52:30,225
but I need to come back in like five days?

1096
00:52:31,515 --> 00:52:35,085
- Yeah, I think, you know,
it's, it's, for the newcomer,

1097
00:52:35,115 --> 00:52:36,675
it's easy

1098
00:52:36,735 --> 00:52:39,635
to just harvest everything
you see 'cause you're excited.

1099
00:52:40,455 --> 00:52:43,675
But if you, you know, if you're
in a place where you're safe

1100
00:52:43,735 --> 00:52:44,955
and you wanna check it out

1101
00:52:44,975 --> 00:52:47,795
and learn more, I, I would recommend kind

1102
00:52:47,795 --> 00:52:48,955
of letting things grow out.

1103
00:52:49,695 --> 00:52:52,235
You know, your last
question, you said, uh, kind

1104
00:52:52,235 --> 00:52:54,395
of a companion kind of thing happening.

1105
00:52:54,915 --> 00:52:57,475
I noticed that there
are a lot of gallerinas,

1106
00:52:57,495 --> 00:53:01,555
the deadly gallerinas that
pop up pretty close to a lot

1107
00:53:01,555 --> 00:53:03,555
of the wood lovers here
in the Pacific Northwest.

1108
00:53:03,695 --> 00:53:07,515
So you, you do want to pay
particular attention to

1109
00:53:08,775 --> 00:53:11,475
the patch might not be all one

1110
00:53:12,835 --> 00:53:14,045
species of mushroom.

1111
00:53:14,465 --> 00:53:17,725
So there are easy ways macroscopically

1112
00:53:17,745 --> 00:53:20,525
to identify these mushrooms
so that you can be safe.

1113
00:53:20,905 --> 00:53:23,245
And if nothing else, take a spore print

1114
00:53:23,245 --> 00:53:25,565
where you take the stem
off the bottom of the cap

1115
00:53:25,905 --> 00:53:28,685
and lay your cap skill
side down on a piece

1116
00:53:28,685 --> 00:53:29,805
of paper overnight

1117
00:53:30,185 --> 00:53:32,245
and see, analyze what the color

1118
00:53:32,245 --> 00:53:35,165
of the spores are the next
day as a telltale sign,

1119
00:53:35,315 --> 00:53:36,925
whether they're poisonous or not.

1120
00:53:37,105 --> 00:53:39,805
So the, um, do you want me

1121
00:53:39,805 --> 00:53:41,485
to go further on identifying or Well,

1122
00:53:41,485 --> 00:53:42,845
- I'm actually gonna
take one more step down

1123
00:53:42,845 --> 00:53:43,965
that same pathway.

1124
00:53:43,965 --> 00:53:46,365
Okay. Okay. Which is, you
know, there's lots of ways

1125
00:53:46,585 --> 00:53:49,285
to get educated about, um,

1126
00:53:49,585 --> 00:53:51,325
you know, mushroom identification.

1127
00:53:51,385 --> 00:53:53,205
You can, you can join a mushroom group.

1128
00:53:53,255 --> 00:53:54,645
There are videos online.

1129
00:53:54,775 --> 00:53:56,485
There are certainly some like really

1130
00:53:56,485 --> 00:53:57,525
great cornerstone books.

1131
00:53:57,905 --> 00:54:00,805
You know, you are not only self-taught,

1132
00:54:01,185 --> 00:54:04,325
but you, you know, you
teach this at, you know,

1133
00:54:04,325 --> 00:54:05,365
the university level.

1134
00:54:05,545 --> 00:54:07,965
You are, you know, I don't
know if you are, you know,

1135
00:54:07,965 --> 00:54:09,245
technically a professor,

1136
00:54:09,425 --> 00:54:11,965
but you teach coursework at
the college level, right?

1137
00:54:12,025 --> 00:54:14,565
So you are a professor first
as far as I could care.

1138
00:54:14,945 --> 00:54:19,565
Um, so, so, so what, for
people who are new to

1139
00:54:20,285 --> 00:54:23,405
identifying mushrooms, um,
what would you recommend

1140
00:54:23,505 --> 00:54:24,565
as the best way

1141
00:54:24,625 --> 00:54:27,725
to go about learning about
wood lovers identification?

1142
00:54:28,655 --> 00:54:31,665
- Yeah. Even though I'm
self-taught, I have had a lot of

1143
00:54:32,535 --> 00:54:36,585
friends that have given
me firsthand knowledge

1144
00:54:36,605 --> 00:54:38,425
by going out and harvesting.

1145
00:54:38,525 --> 00:54:41,145
I'd recommend joining
a psychological group

1146
00:54:41,845 --> 00:54:43,225
or even just being online,

1147
00:54:43,605 --> 00:54:46,145
the different social media
platforms where there's groups

1148
00:54:46,175 --> 00:54:47,665
that can help identify things.

1149
00:54:47,665 --> 00:54:50,185
Taking pictures helps out a lot.

1150
00:54:50,445 --> 00:54:52,025
Having guidebooks, like you're saying,

1151
00:54:52,025 --> 00:54:55,705
helps out just whatever you can
do to educate yourself, both

1152
00:54:56,325 --> 00:54:58,785
in the library sense in books,

1153
00:54:58,845 --> 00:55:01,585
but also firsthand knowledge of going out

1154
00:55:01,585 --> 00:55:03,545
and foraging actually
touching these mushrooms.

1155
00:55:03,665 --> 00:55:07,705
'cause it's important, um, the,
the way the stem feels, the,

1156
00:55:07,965 --> 00:55:09,465
the smell of the mushroom even.

1157
00:55:10,485 --> 00:55:13,425
So there's all kinds of
different characteristics

1158
00:55:13,425 --> 00:55:15,705
that we can identify before consuming

1159
00:55:15,705 --> 00:55:17,865
and taking the wrong choice.

1160
00:55:18,435 --> 00:55:19,545
- Right on. Yeah.

1161
00:55:19,925 --> 00:55:21,225
So, so in set three,

1162
00:55:21,235 --> 00:55:23,345
we're gonna set three is
gonna be the biggest set

1163
00:55:23,365 --> 00:55:25,145
and we're gonna focus on, you know,

1164
00:55:25,505 --> 00:55:27,865
cultivating these outdoors
on your own property.

1165
00:55:28,005 --> 00:55:30,425
But, but before we go
to the commercial break,

1166
00:55:30,825 --> 00:55:32,945
I think it's really important to, um,

1167
00:55:33,285 --> 00:55:37,105
to talk a little bit about,
um, mushroom harvesting

1168
00:55:37,165 --> 00:55:38,345
and the ecology, right?

1169
00:55:38,925 --> 00:55:40,945
So, so, you know,

1170
00:55:41,825 --> 00:55:43,915
anybody who's interested in mushrooms

1171
00:55:44,325 --> 00:55:46,155
wants mushrooms, right?

1172
00:55:46,575 --> 00:55:49,475
But, but wanting mushrooms
now you have to remember

1173
00:55:49,475 --> 00:55:52,515
that there is also a
wanting mushrooms later

1174
00:55:52,855 --> 00:55:54,675
and then other people wanting

1175
00:55:54,695 --> 00:55:56,435
to participate with the mushroom as well.

1176
00:55:57,055 --> 00:56:01,315
You know, what are the
ways that we should harvest

1177
00:56:01,875 --> 00:56:03,595
mushrooms when we find them in the wild?

1178
00:56:04,245 --> 00:56:06,435
Which sets up a situation

1179
00:56:06,765 --> 00:56:09,995
where it'll encourage
food further growth so

1180
00:56:09,995 --> 00:56:13,035
that you can wildcraft them
the next season as well.

1181
00:56:14,125 --> 00:56:18,195
- There are different
culinary mushrooms, uh, more

1182
00:56:18,255 --> 00:56:21,635
so than the wood lovers, um, to

1183
00:56:22,255 --> 00:56:25,205
be discretionary in the
way the methods to harvest.

1184
00:56:26,205 --> 00:56:29,045
A lot of people that harvest
chant trails will cut them

1185
00:56:29,045 --> 00:56:31,045
because there's little
primordial mushrooms

1186
00:56:31,045 --> 00:56:33,525
behind in the stem area that will

1187
00:56:34,275 --> 00:56:35,765
come back in weeks to come.

1188
00:56:35,905 --> 00:56:39,245
So you could have more to harvest
in the future that season.

1189
00:56:40,405 --> 00:56:43,045
A lot of these mushrooms are
microrisal, so you're not going

1190
00:56:43,045 --> 00:56:46,325
to damage them necessarily by
pulling them out of the ground

1191
00:56:46,325 --> 00:56:48,645
because they're in the roots
of the trees and the plants.

1192
00:56:49,585 --> 00:56:50,965
But there are other types

1193
00:56:50,965 --> 00:56:52,485
of mushrooms like the pine mushroom,

1194
00:56:52,675 --> 00:56:55,205
it's also a microrisal with the pine.

1195
00:56:55,985 --> 00:56:58,685
Uh, it's a matsutake, the
pine mushroom, the pine tree,

1196
00:56:59,345 --> 00:57:01,485
and people rake around those trees

1197
00:57:01,625 --> 00:57:03,925
and damage a lot of the
ecology around the trees

1198
00:57:04,105 --> 00:57:06,045
by really raking up

1199
00:57:06,045 --> 00:57:07,965
because the mushrooms
are found underground,

1200
00:57:08,155 --> 00:57:09,765
generally in the, the death.

1201
00:57:10,385 --> 00:57:14,625
So it's generally with, um,

1202
00:57:14,875 --> 00:57:16,945
philosophy mushrooms,
you're not going to have

1203
00:57:17,895 --> 00:57:19,545
like a damaging effect

1204
00:57:20,045 --> 00:57:22,705
unless people are damaging
the ecosystem around

1205
00:57:22,705 --> 00:57:25,665
where the mushrooms are, you
know, so tr tread lightly,

1206
00:57:25,665 --> 00:57:30,345
don't leave your da your garbage,
your um, your stuff around

1207
00:57:30,485 --> 00:57:32,745
and um, maybe leave a few mushrooms

1208
00:57:32,745 --> 00:57:33,945
for others to see <laugh>.

1209
00:57:33,945 --> 00:57:35,225
- Right on. It's nice to know, though,

1210
00:57:35,225 --> 00:57:38,785
that if we're leaving mushrooms, um, it is

1211
00:57:38,785 --> 00:57:41,825
because you wanna be kind to
somebody that comes behind you

1212
00:57:42,085 --> 00:57:43,905
and it isn't like culinary, which is

1213
00:57:43,905 --> 00:57:45,345
where I got the idea from the question

1214
00:57:45,345 --> 00:57:48,105
where they're always
like, you know, only, um,

1215
00:57:48,735 --> 00:57:51,145
only harvest a half to two thirds

1216
00:57:51,215 --> 00:57:55,625
because you don't want to impact
the sustainable life force

1217
00:57:55,685 --> 00:57:56,945
of the patch as a whole.

1218
00:57:57,125 --> 00:57:58,625
And it sounds like that's just not,

1219
00:57:58,885 --> 00:58:00,505
that's just not the way the,

1220
00:58:00,605 --> 00:58:02,745
the biology works when
it comes to wood lovers.

1221
00:58:03,645 --> 00:58:06,985
- No, not at all. In fact, a
lot of times patches are just

1222
00:58:07,015 --> 00:58:08,785
that season that are outside.

1223
00:58:09,365 --> 00:58:13,145
Uh, very rarely do I go
year after year after year

1224
00:58:13,445 --> 00:58:15,745
and find wood lovers in the same area,

1225
00:58:15,885 --> 00:58:19,665
unless there is d wood debris

1226
00:58:19,885 --> 00:58:23,825
or plant debris that's falling
every season to help feed

1227
00:58:23,825 --> 00:58:25,825
that area every year.

1228
00:58:26,465 --> 00:58:29,585
- Interesting. Yeah, I, uh,
I didn't realize why, I know

1229
00:58:29,585 --> 00:58:31,945
that I don't see them year to
year, but I wasn't sure why,

1230
00:58:32,005 --> 00:58:34,025
but it's because they consume all

1231
00:58:34,025 --> 00:58:35,225
of the nutrition in that area.

1232
00:58:35,365 --> 00:58:36,505
I'm get, I'm starting to hear.

1233
00:58:36,885 --> 00:58:39,745
And so if you have an area
that you like to wildcraft,

1234
00:58:40,205 --> 00:58:41,945
you know, be a, be a steward

1235
00:58:42,325 --> 00:58:47,185
and um, you know, put, put
cardboard and or forest duff

1236
00:58:47,205 --> 00:58:49,465
and or local leaves there and, and,

1237
00:58:49,645 --> 00:58:51,025
and help out its process.

1238
00:58:52,455 --> 00:58:57,025
- Yeah. Um, sometimes patches
just don't work even like

1239
00:58:57,045 --> 00:58:58,465
you've done everything you can

1240
00:58:59,285 --> 00:59:03,025
and no matter what happens,
the chips just kind of degrade

1241
00:59:03,205 --> 00:59:05,785
and, and they move away.

1242
00:59:05,965 --> 00:59:08,745
Or you'll have a successful
patch for one or two seasons

1243
00:59:08,745 --> 00:59:11,745
and you try to give them more
food and something happens

1244
00:59:11,925 --> 00:59:13,625
and they just die off.

1245
00:59:13,725 --> 00:59:16,265
So there is a bit of
die off here and there,

1246
00:59:16,325 --> 00:59:19,345
but there's also a lot of
success season to season. So. Oh,

1247
00:59:19,345 --> 00:59:20,465
- Oh, that sounds so sad.

1248
00:59:20,605 --> 00:59:21,605
So sad. <laugh>.

1249
00:59:22,555 --> 00:59:24,405
Alright, so, so, um,

1250
00:59:24,835 --> 00:59:27,165
this has all been a set
up for set three though.

1251
00:59:27,305 --> 00:59:29,965
Set three is probably why
you're here. Dear listener.

1252
00:59:30,025 --> 00:59:33,805
And set three, now that we know,
uh, who the wood lovers are

1253
00:59:34,385 --> 00:59:36,525
and where they are in the wild set three

1254
00:59:37,165 --> 00:59:39,005
probably gonna be the
longest set is all about

1255
00:59:39,005 --> 00:59:40,205
setting up a patch at home.

1256
00:59:40,505 --> 00:59:42,525
So stick with us until after the break.

1257
00:59:42,945 --> 00:59:44,325
You are listening to Shaping Fire

1258
00:59:44,385 --> 00:59:47,205
and my guest today is
Mycologist Christian Kalin.

1259
00:59:50,035 --> 00:59:52,415
As cannabis regulations
become more demanding

1260
00:59:52,435 --> 00:59:54,055
and consumers become more educated,

1261
00:59:54,155 --> 00:59:56,215
it is increasingly
important to avoid the use

1262
00:59:56,215 --> 00:59:58,695
of chemical pesticides
when cultivating cannabis.

1263
00:59:59,345 --> 01:00:01,535
Beneficial insects have
been used for decades

1264
01:00:01,875 --> 01:00:04,775
by the greenhouse, vegetable
and ornamental plant industry.

1265
01:00:05,115 --> 01:00:08,175
And today many cannabis
cultivators are moving from sprays

1266
01:00:08,175 --> 01:00:10,215
and chemicals to beneficial insects.

1267
01:00:11,435 --> 01:00:13,695
Cot has the beneficial insects, mites

1268
01:00:13,695 --> 01:00:16,175
and nematodes, microbials, sticky cards

1269
01:00:16,275 --> 01:00:17,855
and air distribution units.

1270
01:00:18,275 --> 01:00:20,935
You need to partner with
nature to defend your garden.

1271
01:00:21,485 --> 01:00:23,655
Whether you manage acres of canopy

1272
01:00:23,715 --> 01:00:26,735
or have a simple grow tent in
your home, culprit is ready

1273
01:00:26,735 --> 01:00:28,295
to help answer your questions

1274
01:00:28,435 --> 01:00:31,255
and help you transition away
from chemical sprays towards

1275
01:00:31,305 --> 01:00:32,975
clean and natural solutions.

1276
01:00:34,225 --> 01:00:39,215
Since 1967, Cobert has assisted
growers in identifying pests

1277
01:00:39,315 --> 01:00:42,015
and devising reliable solutions
while providing healthy

1278
01:00:42,165 --> 01:00:44,695
insects and mites that
will protect your yield.

1279
01:00:45,385 --> 01:00:49,055
Since the 1990s, Cobert has
been a leader in cannabis, pest

1280
01:00:49,055 --> 01:00:50,375
and disease control worldwide,

1281
01:00:50,595 --> 01:00:53,575
and have highly trained
consultants to assist you in Canada

1282
01:00:53,835 --> 01:00:55,735
and the United States from coast to coast

1283
01:00:56,805 --> 01:01:00,215
with their global network of
grower support, coper can help.

1284
01:01:00,745 --> 01:01:03,495
Visit coper.com, choose your country,

1285
01:01:03,635 --> 01:01:05,255
and get detailed information.

1286
01:01:05,675 --> 01:01:09,415
That's coper, K-O-P-P-E-R t.com.

1287
01:01:10,355 --> 01:01:13,415
For the most UpToDate cannabis
related biological control

1288
01:01:13,415 --> 01:01:15,935
information, you can also
check their Instagram

1289
01:01:16,195 --> 01:01:17,575
at Coper Canada.

1290
01:01:18,635 --> 01:01:21,095
You know, getting away from
pesticides is good for health

1291
01:01:21,195 --> 01:01:23,735
and good for business, and
Coper is ready to help.

1292
01:01:24,225 --> 01:01:26,175
Visit coper.com today.

1293
01:01:28,805 --> 01:01:30,455
Sometimes the topics I want to share

1294
01:01:30,455 --> 01:01:31,895
with you are far too brief

1295
01:01:31,915 --> 01:01:33,695
for an entire shaping fire episode.

1296
01:01:34,075 --> 01:01:36,375
In those instances, I
post them to Instagram.

1297
01:01:36,935 --> 01:01:39,415
I invite you to follow
my two Instagram profiles

1298
01:01:39,415 --> 01:01:42,055
and participate online The Shaping Fire.

1299
01:01:42,055 --> 01:01:45,215
Instagram has follow-up posts
to shaping fire episodes,

1300
01:01:45,365 --> 01:01:48,335
growing and processing best
practices, product trials,

1301
01:01:48,515 --> 01:01:50,975
and of course, gorgeous flower photos.

1302
01:01:51,555 --> 01:01:54,375
The Shang los Instagram
follows my travels on cannabis

1303
01:01:54,375 --> 01:01:56,255
garden tours, my successes

1304
01:01:56,275 --> 01:01:58,735
and failures in my own garden, insights

1305
01:01:58,735 --> 01:02:01,255
and best practices from
personal grows everywhere

1306
01:02:01,515 --> 01:02:04,895
and always gorgeous flower
photos on both profiles.

1307
01:02:04,895 --> 01:02:06,935
The emphasis on sharing
what I've learned in a way

1308
01:02:06,935 --> 01:02:09,055
that you can replicate
it in your own garden,

1309
01:02:09,325 --> 01:02:12,495
your own hash lab, or for
your own canna Apathic health.

1310
01:02:12,915 --> 01:02:15,415
So I encourage you to
follow at Shaping Fire

1311
01:02:15,675 --> 01:02:19,445
and at Shang Los and join our
online community on Instagram.

1312
01:02:23,195 --> 01:02:26,335
One of the reasons why no-till
cannabis growing is so valued

1313
01:02:26,395 --> 01:02:27,535
by farmers is

1314
01:02:27,535 --> 01:02:30,215
because the mycelium
networks in the soil remain

1315
01:02:30,215 --> 01:02:31,695
established from year to year.

1316
01:02:32,275 --> 01:02:34,455
And we know these fungal
networks are essential

1317
01:02:34,455 --> 01:02:37,975
because they're the nutrients
super highways that extend far

1318
01:02:37,975 --> 01:02:40,615
and wide in the substrate
to feed your plants.

1319
01:02:41,315 --> 01:02:43,735
The trouble with growing
in new living soils

1320
01:02:43,735 --> 01:02:46,735
or blended cocoa substrates
is that it takes most

1321
01:02:46,755 --> 01:02:50,495
of the plant's life just to
create these mycelium highways,

1322
01:02:51,695 --> 01:02:54,895
dyno, mico, endo, microrisal,
fungi inoculate reduces

1323
01:02:54,895 --> 01:02:57,855
that time and gets your
plant eating a wider array

1324
01:02:57,875 --> 01:02:59,015
of nutrients faster.

1325
01:02:59,595 --> 01:03:01,455
And it's three times the concentration

1326
01:03:01,595 --> 01:03:05,375
of the other popular brand
in the US at 900 Propagules

1327
01:03:05,375 --> 01:03:08,495
pergram of two fungal
species selected specifically

1328
01:03:08,715 --> 01:03:10,055
for cannabis cultivation.

1329
01:03:10,895 --> 01:03:12,935
Dyno Mica is the result
of 30 years of research

1330
01:03:12,935 --> 01:03:15,815
and trials at the Ani
Agricultural Research

1331
01:03:15,815 --> 01:03:16,895
Institute in Israel.

1332
01:03:17,195 --> 01:03:19,695
It has also been vigorously
trialed by cannabis

1333
01:03:19,755 --> 01:03:21,495
and food growers across the us.

1334
01:03:22,655 --> 01:03:24,855
Dynami O is now available at Grow Shops

1335
01:03:24,855 --> 01:03:26,615
and on Amazon in the United States.

1336
01:03:27,295 --> 01:03:29,615
I love using dynami o to
both speed up the growth

1337
01:03:29,615 --> 01:03:31,295
of the mycelium networks in the soil,

1338
01:03:31,595 --> 01:03:35,375
but also as a bio stimulant to
make clone cuttings more vir.

1339
01:03:35,955 --> 01:03:38,855
You can see side-by-side showing
the comparative growth on

1340
01:03:38,855 --> 01:03:40,735
their Instagram at Dyno Mico.

1341
01:03:41,475 --> 01:03:43,455
If you demand reliable growing results

1342
01:03:43,515 --> 01:03:45,015
and appreciate the importance

1343
01:03:45,015 --> 01:03:47,335
of an active root zone in
creating a thriving plant,

1344
01:03:47,735 --> 01:03:50,175
I encourage you to check out dyno mico.com

1345
01:03:50,435 --> 01:03:52,495
and use the store locator to find out

1346
01:03:52,735 --> 01:03:53,895
where you can get yours.

1347
01:03:54,395 --> 01:03:57,935
That's D-Y-N-O-M-Y-C

1348
01:03:58,055 --> 01:04:00,335
o.com shaping.

1349
01:04:00,365 --> 01:04:02,975
Fire listeners can get 10% off any size

1350
01:04:02,975 --> 01:04:05,495
of Dyna myco on dyno myco.com

1351
01:04:05,755 --> 01:04:09,895
by using the discount code
shaping fire, one word, no caps.

1352
01:04:10,405 --> 01:04:13,135
Whether you are starting
with new beds or pots,

1353
01:04:13,135 --> 01:04:15,415
or if you want to add
some zing to tired soil,

1354
01:04:15,595 --> 01:04:18,455
choose Dyna Myco to maximize
your plant's potential.

1355
01:04:19,375 --> 01:04:24,035
Dyna Myco Endo Michal
inoculate. Welcome back.

1356
01:04:24,135 --> 01:04:25,515
You are listening to Shaping Fire.

1357
01:04:25,635 --> 01:04:26,915
I am your host, she Los,

1358
01:04:27,015 --> 01:04:29,995
and my guest today is my
college Christian Kalin.

1359
01:04:30,335 --> 01:04:32,195
So here we are in the big finish

1360
01:04:32,495 --> 01:04:35,475
and probably for what you
are here for dear listener,

1361
01:04:35,475 --> 01:04:38,315
because we're gonna talk
about how to set up one

1362
01:04:38,315 --> 01:04:41,835
of these wood lover cultivation
patches at your house.

1363
01:04:42,335 --> 01:04:44,395
And I gotta tell you,
they are a lot of fun

1364
01:04:44,535 --> 01:04:47,155
to put together in
preparation for this episode.

1365
01:04:47,415 --> 01:04:50,035
Um, uh, I produced a a few of my own,

1366
01:04:50,035 --> 01:04:51,595
which you'll be hearing about in a moment,

1367
01:04:51,935 --> 01:04:54,315
and, uh, it's, it is sure a lot of fun

1368
01:04:54,335 --> 01:04:57,155
and I'm looking forward
to seeing, um, what kind

1369
01:04:57,155 --> 01:04:59,515
of fruit they show here in the winter, uh,

1370
01:04:59,515 --> 01:05:00,635
or in this coming fall.

1371
01:05:01,535 --> 01:05:03,915
So, so Christian, you know,
I think right at the top,

1372
01:05:04,295 --> 01:05:07,835
we should probably hit the
legal aspect right here, uh,

1373
01:05:07,935 --> 01:05:09,475
to get us off the hook and,

1374
01:05:09,535 --> 01:05:14,155
and that that is that,
um, you know, be aware of

1375
01:05:14,265 --> 01:05:17,885
what the laws are wherever
you're looking to grow these.

1376
01:05:18,265 --> 01:05:20,845
It is true that these
are naturally occurring,

1377
01:05:21,185 --> 01:05:24,005
but based on where you live,
you could get in trouble

1378
01:05:24,345 --> 01:05:27,325
for intentionally cultivating
them or possessing them,

1379
01:05:27,505 --> 01:05:29,045
or God help is selling them.

1380
01:05:29,825 --> 01:05:32,165
And, um, be really
aware of what's going on

1381
01:05:32,165 --> 01:05:34,725
because the rules are changing
fast in different, you know,

1382
01:05:34,965 --> 01:05:37,325
state county municipality all the way down

1383
01:05:37,945 --> 01:05:39,125
and, you know, shaping fire.

1384
01:05:39,135 --> 01:05:40,845
We're an international show, right?

1385
01:05:40,985 --> 01:05:43,165
And so, even though, you know, cultivation

1386
01:05:43,165 --> 01:05:45,165
of these mushrooms may be illegal in much

1387
01:05:45,165 --> 01:05:48,765
of the United States because
it's a schedule one drug, um,

1388
01:05:48,765 --> 01:05:50,325
that is not the case everywhere where,

1389
01:05:50,335 --> 01:05:52,285
where the shaping fire audience is.

1390
01:05:52,545 --> 01:05:54,885
So, um, you know, be smart

1391
01:05:55,425 --> 01:05:58,005
and, uh, you know, either
stay legal or stay quiet.

1392
01:05:58,325 --> 01:05:59,525
<laugh>, don't get yourself in trouble.

1393
01:05:59,525 --> 01:06:02,285
Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> and, you
know, uh, be, be respectful.

1394
01:06:02,285 --> 01:06:03,965
We don't want anybody, you know, you know,

1395
01:06:03,965 --> 01:06:05,645
taking your property from you or anything.

1396
01:06:05,865 --> 01:06:08,605
So, uh, and we're also
not making any claims to

1397
01:06:08,605 --> 01:06:10,565
what is legal where you happen to live.

1398
01:06:10,825 --> 01:06:13,285
So, uh, so, you know, be an adult about it

1399
01:06:13,285 --> 01:06:15,605
and make sure that,
uh, you are clear about

1400
01:06:15,605 --> 01:06:17,005
what is legal in your area.

1401
01:06:17,155 --> 01:06:19,165
Alright, there we go. Moving on.

1402
01:06:19,505 --> 01:06:21,885
So, so Christian, you know,
what are the key factors

1403
01:06:22,105 --> 01:06:24,605
for successfully cultivating wood loving

1404
01:06:24,735 --> 01:06:25,805
psilocybin mushrooms?

1405
01:06:25,805 --> 01:06:27,805
We're gonna, we're gonna talk
about details in a moment,

1406
01:06:28,265 --> 01:06:31,165
but as somebody who is, you
know, intimately familiar

1407
01:06:31,325 --> 01:06:35,165
with it, I'm sure that there
are the major pillars that any,

1408
01:06:35,625 --> 01:06:37,925
uh, you know, outdoor
cultivation has to include.

1409
01:06:37,945 --> 01:06:38,945
And what are those?

1410
01:06:40,435 --> 01:06:43,215
- The culture is primary, you know, where,

1411
01:06:43,985 --> 01:06:45,855
where you get your base culture from.

1412
01:06:46,365 --> 01:06:48,855
What species is it, what does it need,

1413
01:06:49,715 --> 01:06:53,335
and do you have the location,
the habitat, the substrate

1414
01:06:54,785 --> 01:06:56,565
to give it the best opportunity?

1415
01:06:57,225 --> 01:06:59,125
- So what are, what is that habitat?

1416
01:06:59,225 --> 01:07:02,445
So let's say that that, um,
a you know, a listener is,

1417
01:07:02,505 --> 01:07:03,765
is looking at their yard

1418
01:07:04,185 --> 01:07:05,925
and they've got, you know, some variety.

1419
01:07:06,625 --> 01:07:10,365
Um, uh, what, what are the questions

1420
01:07:10,365 --> 01:07:13,445
that I would be asking myself
when deciding what part

1421
01:07:13,465 --> 01:07:17,245
of the yard to, um,
to, to make my planting

1422
01:07:18,975 --> 01:07:22,325
- Where, where you live
determines how much

1423
01:07:24,225 --> 01:07:25,855
going out of your way you have to,

1424
01:07:26,195 --> 01:07:29,855
to make your patch successful
here in the Pacific Northwest

1425
01:07:29,875 --> 01:07:32,655
or places where it's humid,
it doesn't get super hot.

1426
01:07:32,665 --> 01:07:34,895
These are where they like to thrive.

1427
01:07:34,895 --> 01:07:36,975
Naturally, we are in the best place

1428
01:07:37,035 --> 01:07:41,135
and we don't have as many
firewalls that we have to put up,

1429
01:07:41,155 --> 01:07:44,615
so to speak, to give them the
best opportunity possible.

1430
01:07:45,395 --> 01:07:48,855
So other places, maybe in the Midwest, uh,

1431
01:07:48,965 --> 01:07:53,695
southwest arid places, not
very humid, you're going

1432
01:07:53,695 --> 01:07:56,575
to have to make a lot of different layers

1433
01:07:57,075 --> 01:07:59,295
and put it in a nice location

1434
01:07:59,545 --> 01:08:01,575
where it might not get direct sunlight

1435
01:08:01,575 --> 01:08:04,375
and go out of your way to give
it the best possible chance.

1436
01:08:05,355 --> 01:08:07,495
So yeah, that's kind of it in a nutshell.

1437
01:08:07,495 --> 01:08:11,935
- Alright. So, so, so you've
described, um, shade and,

1438
01:08:12,035 --> 01:08:15,285
and also, you know,
some amount of moisture.

1439
01:08:15,505 --> 01:08:18,365
So, you know, where we live,
the moisture is everywhere.

1440
01:08:18,395 --> 01:08:20,205
It's in the air, it's on
the ground, that's easy.

1441
01:08:20,785 --> 01:08:23,325
Um, but if somebody is
looking at their property,

1442
01:08:23,535 --> 01:08:25,445
their first choice would be shade

1443
01:08:25,445 --> 01:08:27,325
because they don't want the area to cook.

1444
01:08:27,705 --> 01:08:31,525
But then second, maybe they
are looking at the more damp

1445
01:08:31,555 --> 01:08:33,125
part of their property, right?

1446
01:08:33,215 --> 01:08:35,045
Maybe, maybe the part of their property

1447
01:08:35,045 --> 01:08:39,485
that's maybe more wetlands or
maybe has a stream near it or,

1448
01:08:39,865 --> 01:08:43,365
or maybe has got a, uh, you
know, during the winter that's

1449
01:08:43,365 --> 01:08:45,845
where water pools, these are
the kinds of things, right?

1450
01:08:47,085 --> 01:08:49,655
- Yeah, definitely. You
don't want it to get soaked,

1451
01:08:49,715 --> 01:08:51,855
so you don't want it in a flood zone

1452
01:08:52,755 --> 01:08:56,935
and you don't want it
necessarily to be facing, uh,

1453
01:08:56,955 --> 01:08:58,135
the sun all summer.

1454
01:08:58,555 --> 01:09:02,135
So you want it, you know, to be in a,

1455
01:09:02,975 --> 01:09:06,255
a south sloping area, you know,

1456
01:09:06,275 --> 01:09:09,495
all these things can make a
huge difference ultimately. How

1457
01:09:09,495 --> 01:09:11,535
- About what kind of trees they're under?

1458
01:09:11,695 --> 01:09:13,495
I mean, we know they love the hardwoods.

1459
01:09:13,955 --> 01:09:17,535
Did should we be planting them
underneath a hardwood tree?

1460
01:09:17,835 --> 01:09:21,135
Um, it definitely sounds like
we should be avoiding furs

1461
01:09:21,135 --> 01:09:22,495
because their,

1462
01:09:22,625 --> 01:09:25,575
their root structure
definitely doesn't provide

1463
01:09:25,575 --> 01:09:27,015
the environment we're looking for. Right?

1464
01:09:27,795 --> 01:09:29,775
- You know, it's actually opposite

1465
01:09:29,775 --> 01:09:34,415
because you think the deciduous
trees don't offer much

1466
01:09:35,305 --> 01:09:36,735
protection in the wintertime,

1467
01:09:37,675 --> 01:09:40,575
and this can be just as kind of harmful,

1468
01:09:41,445 --> 01:09:44,975
depending on the extreme, the
extremists of your winter.

1469
01:09:45,475 --> 01:09:49,135
So it, you would think
that having it in, I mean,

1470
01:09:49,135 --> 01:09:51,775
it's not gonna hurt to have
it in a deciduous treat area,

1471
01:09:51,925 --> 01:09:53,975
it's just depending on what kind

1472
01:09:53,975 --> 01:09:55,495
of winter you're going to have.

1473
01:09:55,595 --> 01:09:59,855
So it is kind of nice.
I, I have seen success

1474
01:10:00,075 --> 01:10:01,615
around conifers just

1475
01:10:01,615 --> 01:10:04,695
because they are a shade
tree, basically year round.

1476
01:10:05,155 --> 01:10:07,695
And so this can be a
very nice place for them.

1477
01:10:08,325 --> 01:10:10,895
They're, you're, you're
building your patch on top

1478
01:10:10,895 --> 01:10:14,175
of the roots, so it's not
like they're going to impede

1479
01:10:14,175 --> 01:10:15,735
with the success of the patch

1480
01:10:15,735 --> 01:10:19,655
because you're topically on
top of the conifer roots.

1481
01:10:20,235 --> 01:10:22,015
So I don't see any problem with that.

1482
01:10:23,355 --> 01:10:26,375
Um, you know, bamboo is another one

1483
01:10:26,375 --> 01:10:27,615
that people have used a lot

1484
01:10:27,615 --> 01:10:30,215
because bamboo loses
its leaves every year,

1485
01:10:30,795 --> 01:10:32,335
but it's also an evergreen.

1486
01:10:32,435 --> 01:10:33,975
So you have shade year round,

1487
01:10:34,205 --> 01:10:36,615
plus you have a food
source for your patch.

1488
01:10:38,185 --> 01:10:40,235
There's, uh, cardboard

1489
01:10:40,295 --> 01:10:42,115
and tarps like we talked about before too.

1490
01:10:42,135 --> 01:10:44,835
If you just don't have
a location with trees

1491
01:10:44,975 --> 01:10:48,315
or any kinda shade, maybe
even a building on the side

1492
01:10:48,315 --> 01:10:53,235
of the house can work, uh,
then using topical methods,

1493
01:10:54,205 --> 01:10:58,075
tarps and cardboard and
straw will greatly benefit.

1494
01:10:58,735 --> 01:11:00,515
- So it sounds like we're
talking about, we want,

1495
01:11:00,515 --> 01:11:02,995
we want moisture, we want shade

1496
01:11:03,135 --> 01:11:05,075
so we don't get too much direct sunlight

1497
01:11:05,455 --> 01:11:06,915
and then we want food.

1498
01:11:07,495 --> 01:11:10,035
And so putting it somewhere where, uh,

1499
01:11:10,035 --> 01:11:13,845
there's gonna be forest duff
or leaves falling from above

1500
01:11:14,505 --> 01:11:18,125
or, um, you know, uh, plants
that just drop lots of like,

1501
01:11:18,185 --> 01:11:20,525
you know, sticks or flowers or petals

1502
01:11:20,585 --> 01:11:23,045
or we're, we're looking
for anything that is going

1503
01:11:23,045 --> 01:11:25,925
to drop on your pile and
degrade, that's a win.

1504
01:11:26,625 --> 01:11:27,805
- Yes, definitely. Alright.

1505
01:11:27,905 --> 01:11:29,165
It doesn't have to be that way,

1506
01:11:29,345 --> 01:11:30,845
but that's definitely a plus.

1507
01:11:31,135 --> 01:11:33,205
- Right on. Um, good. Alright.

1508
01:11:33,305 --> 01:11:37,885
So, um, a lot of folks, uh,
me included, um, you know,

1509
01:11:38,025 --> 01:11:39,645
we start this, we'll be, you know,

1510
01:11:39,645 --> 01:11:40,845
we'll be de I'll be asking you

1511
01:11:40,845 --> 01:11:44,005
to describe this lasagna
technique in a moment, but,

1512
01:11:44,025 --> 01:11:47,245
but one of the main, the most
important, uh, input for the,

1513
01:11:47,385 --> 01:11:51,725
the, the lasagna style is the wood chips.

1514
01:11:52,065 --> 01:11:56,765
Um, you know, what, what
best practices are there

1515
01:11:56,825 --> 01:11:59,005
for choosing your wood chips?

1516
01:11:59,415 --> 01:12:02,605
Other than it sounds
like them being hardwood?

1517
01:12:02,945 --> 01:12:06,485
The only one that I for sure
came up with was, um, uh,

1518
01:12:06,655 --> 01:12:11,005
being careful, uh, grabbing the, uh,

1519
01:12:11,545 --> 01:12:15,645
the, the wood chips that
come from like the city parks

1520
01:12:15,645 --> 01:12:19,405
and things like that because
many cities used pesticides

1521
01:12:19,865 --> 01:12:23,245
and perhaps there will be
chemicals in those wood chips,

1522
01:12:23,265 --> 01:12:25,485
but, but other than those,
I'm not sure what other, um,

1523
01:12:25,875 --> 01:12:29,205
best practices there might
be for choosing wood chips.

1524
01:12:29,205 --> 01:12:30,245
What might you have for us?

1525
01:12:31,185 --> 01:12:34,165
- That's true if you were
to source from arborists,

1526
01:12:34,345 --> 01:12:36,725
you know, depending on where
they got their trees from,

1527
01:12:36,935 --> 01:12:39,605
there could be risk of
herbicides or other things.

1528
01:12:40,035 --> 01:12:43,765
Generally when you deal with,
here in the Pacific Northwest,

1529
01:12:43,905 --> 01:12:46,205
we we're a tree state, so there's lots

1530
01:12:46,205 --> 01:12:47,845
of wood, which is nice.

1531
01:12:48,105 --> 01:12:50,005
Uh, other places might not have that.

1532
01:12:51,305 --> 01:12:53,645
But I would say on the whole, you know,

1533
01:12:53,645 --> 01:12:57,125
if you're getting wood chips
from an actual chip company,

1534
01:12:57,355 --> 01:13:00,805
then generally they can be
certified organic actually.

1535
01:13:00,945 --> 01:13:03,765
So there's in the wild, you know,

1536
01:13:03,765 --> 01:13:07,085
they're just the alder here
in the Pacific Northwest is

1537
01:13:07,085 --> 01:13:08,205
what you'll usually find.

1538
01:13:08,345 --> 01:13:10,445
And they're a weed tree for the most part.

1539
01:13:10,445 --> 01:13:13,085
They're everywhere and they're,

1540
01:13:13,085 --> 01:13:14,445
they're free of contamination.

1541
01:13:15,265 --> 01:13:19,445
So, um, definitely want to know

1542
01:13:19,445 --> 01:13:21,165
where the, the chips came from.

1543
01:13:21,625 --> 01:13:24,005
But I think on the whole, you know,

1544
01:13:24,005 --> 01:13:25,525
even if they're in someone's yard,

1545
01:13:25,705 --> 01:13:27,925
people generally aren't spraying their,

1546
01:13:28,295 --> 01:13:29,325
their hardwood trees.

1547
01:13:29,475 --> 01:13:31,565
It's more like plants
and things down below.

1548
01:13:32,425 --> 01:13:36,485
Um, and then also like, just making sure

1549
01:13:36,515 --> 01:13:38,205
that the chips haven't been somewhere

1550
01:13:38,335 --> 01:13:40,925
where they've soaked up or they've aged

1551
01:13:41,025 --> 01:13:44,645
or they were from trees that
were already dead and decaying

1552
01:13:44,645 --> 01:13:46,325
and had all kinds of
contamination in them.

1553
01:13:46,325 --> 01:13:48,325
That would be something
you want to start with.

1554
01:13:48,325 --> 01:13:51,605
Nice, fresh chips that were
from healthy trees. Mm-Hmm.

1555
01:13:51,645 --> 01:13:52,725
- <affirmative>. Um,

1556
01:13:53,275 --> 01:13:56,245
this may seem like a laughable
question considering we're

1557
01:13:56,245 --> 01:13:57,925
doing this interview in
the Pacific Northwest,

1558
01:13:57,985 --> 01:13:59,125
but, um, you know,

1559
01:13:59,425 --> 01:14:01,725
not everybody has got
trees like we've got.

1560
01:14:01,905 --> 01:14:05,205
And, um, somebody on
Instagram asked me, uh,

1561
01:14:05,205 --> 01:14:06,525
during a discussion whether

1562
01:14:06,545 --> 01:14:10,365
or not they could use bagged
hardwood chips that they use

1563
01:14:10,425 --> 01:14:11,605
for smoking meat.

1564
01:14:12,075 --> 01:14:14,285
Yeah. So like, just like
bagged hardwood chips.

1565
01:14:14,305 --> 01:14:16,645
Is there any reason why
that would be excluded?

1566
01:14:17,945 --> 01:14:22,405
- No, just the lack of
information maybe of not knowing

1567
01:14:22,405 --> 01:14:23,405
where they came from

1568
01:14:23,425 --> 01:14:25,805
or how they were handled
would be the only uncertainty.

1569
01:14:26,425 --> 01:14:29,245
But I would say any
kind of chip, basically,

1570
01:14:29,245 --> 01:14:32,325
if you're willing to just
rehydrate it, that's all

1571
01:14:32,325 --> 01:14:35,405
that needs to happen is just take dry wood

1572
01:14:35,465 --> 01:14:38,245
and soak it in a bucket of water

1573
01:14:38,345 --> 01:14:41,205
and get it as hydrated as
possible before you inoculate it.

1574
01:14:41,695 --> 01:14:45,845
- Right on. So, so let's
talk about, um, uh, uh, where

1575
01:14:45,945 --> 01:14:50,245
to get our, our starting
spores or mycelium now.

1576
01:14:50,665 --> 01:14:53,965
Um, my favorite way, um, my favorite way,

1577
01:14:54,045 --> 01:14:55,605
I sound like I've been
doing this for a long time.

1578
01:14:55,885 --> 01:14:57,925
I have been doing this for
one month, right? <laugh>.

1579
01:14:57,925 --> 01:15:01,165
So, so in my, in that one
month though, I've made a,

1580
01:15:01,235 --> 01:15:02,765
I've made a few of these installations.

1581
01:15:03,025 --> 01:15:06,405
And so, um, but all of them
came from that one patch

1582
01:15:06,485 --> 01:15:08,725
that I mentioned earlier,
that eight by 10 patch

1583
01:15:09,715 --> 01:15:13,325
because, uh, my friend was,
uh, uh, selling their house

1584
01:15:13,345 --> 01:15:15,965
and they're all like, Hey, you
know, um, this is, this is,

1585
01:15:15,995 --> 01:15:18,765
this patch is probably
gonna get ruined anyway, so,

1586
01:15:18,905 --> 01:15:20,925
you know, feel free to
come and collect mycelium.

1587
01:15:20,945 --> 01:15:24,685
And so, um, you know, we went
and we, we scraped the surface

1588
01:15:24,865 --> 01:15:26,645
and we grabbed a bunch of mycelium.

1589
01:15:26,665 --> 01:15:31,605
So we had like, really nice
rich myceliated wood chips

1590
01:15:31,605 --> 01:15:32,805
and de degrading.

1591
01:15:33,425 --> 01:15:36,645
And, and that's what, you
know, we used for these patches

1592
01:15:36,645 --> 01:15:38,485
that, that we've installed
in the last month.

1593
01:15:38,485 --> 01:15:39,845
And so that's, that's a great source.

1594
01:15:39,845 --> 01:15:43,725
So if you can, if you can
grab mycelium from the wild,

1595
01:15:43,765 --> 01:15:46,485
respectfully there, there,
there's a great option.

1596
01:15:46,865 --> 01:15:48,805
But, but you know, I, you

1597
01:15:48,805 --> 01:15:51,965
and I talking casually you've
mentioned many times, um,

1598
01:15:52,065 --> 01:15:56,085
you know, getting spores and
doing the inoculation yourself.

1599
01:15:56,665 --> 01:16:00,685
So, so maybe talk a little bit
about of where to get spores

1600
01:16:00,715 --> 01:16:04,925
because, um, even though
the possession of, uh,

1601
01:16:05,055 --> 01:16:08,685
these mushrooms are illegal
many places, oddly selling

1602
01:16:08,705 --> 01:16:09,845
of the spores is not

1603
01:16:11,365 --> 01:16:12,365
- Yeah.

1604
01:16:12,365 --> 01:16:13,695
You, you can get spores online.

1605
01:16:14,575 --> 01:16:17,455
I, you know, it, I, I don't necessarily

1606
01:16:18,725 --> 01:16:20,775
plug any one in particular.

1607
01:16:21,415 --> 01:16:25,055
I, I've had spore syringes where, um,

1608
01:16:25,055 --> 01:16:26,415
there weren't any spores in it.

1609
01:16:26,475 --> 01:16:28,895
So there's, it's kind of funny, it's hit

1610
01:16:28,895 --> 01:16:32,095
and miss, it's kind of the
wild west still as far as

1611
01:16:32,125 --> 01:16:33,135
what you can get out there.

1612
01:16:34,275 --> 01:16:38,935
Um, definitely would
rather find a wild specimen

1613
01:16:39,035 --> 01:16:43,365
and use fresh a, a fresh culture.

1614
01:16:43,655 --> 01:16:46,965
Fresh mycelium is the easiest, basically

1615
01:16:46,985 --> 01:16:50,885
to get started spores
you're dealing with a lot

1616
01:16:50,885 --> 01:16:54,125
of different DNA, uh, characteristics

1617
01:16:55,105 --> 01:16:59,445
and you're, you know, if you
start spores on cardboard,

1618
01:16:59,445 --> 01:17:01,245
even just as a low tech way

1619
01:17:01,425 --> 01:17:05,525
or, um, broadcasting the spores into,

1620
01:17:06,725 --> 01:17:11,325
uh, wet wood debris can also
help, but it's, it's variable.

1621
01:17:12,225 --> 01:17:15,765
You will get a couple spores to germinate,

1622
01:17:15,825 --> 01:17:20,445
and then that mycelium is very
kind of primitive in ways.

1623
01:17:20,555 --> 01:17:22,845
It's not necessarily the most aggressive

1624
01:17:22,855 --> 01:17:23,965
lines to start from.

1625
01:17:24,115 --> 01:17:26,445
Generally when you start
from a spore, you have

1626
01:17:26,445 --> 01:17:28,605
to put it on a Petri
dish in the laboratory,

1627
01:17:29,265 --> 01:17:31,845
get really aggressive
lines to sequence out,

1628
01:17:31,865 --> 01:17:33,285
and it might take three or four

1629
01:17:33,385 --> 01:17:36,285
or five months of transferring
from plate to plate

1630
01:17:36,305 --> 01:17:38,165
to actually get an aggressive line

1631
01:17:38,165 --> 01:17:39,485
that will fruit mushrooms.

1632
01:17:40,145 --> 01:17:44,285
So spores can be, uh, a legal way,

1633
01:17:45,105 --> 01:17:47,525
um, to get to acquire the culture.

1634
01:17:47,865 --> 01:17:51,085
But then you also, you
know, once you spore,

1635
01:17:51,555 --> 01:17:53,005
once you germinate the spores

1636
01:17:53,005 --> 01:17:55,365
and start mycelium, that is considered,

1637
01:17:55,625 --> 01:17:58,005
you know, illegal.

1638
01:17:58,185 --> 01:18:00,965
So it, it's one of those things where, um,

1639
01:18:02,775 --> 01:18:04,595
if you can find it in the wild

1640
01:18:04,775 --> 01:18:08,275
or you have somebody that
has a little bit of a culture

1641
01:18:08,335 --> 01:18:09,755
or patch that you can borrow from,

1642
01:18:09,775 --> 01:18:11,915
you can literally take a
piece of someone's patch

1643
01:18:12,255 --> 01:18:16,895
and transfer it to your patch
and have a successful patch.

1644
01:18:17,875 --> 01:18:21,495
- So you caught me off guard
describing purchased spores,

1645
01:18:21,875 --> 01:18:23,255
uh, taking them into the lab,

1646
01:18:23,375 --> 01:18:25,215
into the Petri dishes
just to grow them out.

1647
01:18:25,475 --> 01:18:28,135
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um,
uh, does that have to be done

1648
01:18:28,235 --> 01:18:32,895
or can you just buy wood
loving spores online and,

1649
01:18:32,995 --> 01:18:36,735
and literally go over to your wood chips

1650
01:18:36,955 --> 01:18:40,055
and squirt it out, you
know, in drops all over?

1651
01:18:40,055 --> 01:18:42,335
Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> your
wood chips, like, can you do it

1652
01:18:42,335 --> 01:18:44,815
that directly or do you
have to grow it out first?

1653
01:18:46,355 --> 01:18:47,655
- You can do it that directly.

1654
01:18:47,995 --> 01:18:51,095
It, it's just variable
as far as your success.

1655
01:18:51,195 --> 01:18:54,415
You're, you generally,
when people buy spores,

1656
01:18:54,415 --> 01:18:56,175
they just are hoping to get one

1657
01:18:56,175 --> 01:18:57,775
or two mushrooms that
then they can culture

1658
01:18:57,875 --> 01:18:59,655
and have a fresh mushroom to culture.

1659
01:19:00,275 --> 01:19:04,495
Oh. And then from there they
can have a more direct clone

1660
01:19:04,495 --> 01:19:05,535
that's more aggressive,

1661
01:19:05,535 --> 01:19:07,335
that will fruit more
mushrooms in the future.

1662
01:19:08,115 --> 01:19:10,775
So starting from spores,
you're generally not going

1663
01:19:10,775 --> 01:19:13,935
to get a very successful
harvest right off the bat.

1664
01:19:13,955 --> 01:19:17,815
It takes time to get that
mycelium to the point

1665
01:19:17,815 --> 01:19:20,615
of like a kind of a
commercial fruiting strain.

1666
01:19:21,435 --> 01:19:25,575
- So when wild harvesting your
start as I did, you're kind

1667
01:19:25,575 --> 01:19:28,815
of, excuse me, you're kind
of stuck with whatever, um,

1668
01:19:29,075 --> 01:19:32,575
you have nearby or that
you can borrow from.

1669
01:19:33,075 --> 01:19:34,335
Um, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,
if you are looking

1670
01:19:34,395 --> 01:19:36,255
to have success right off the bat,

1671
01:19:36,715 --> 01:19:39,575
is there a particular
variety of wood lover

1672
01:19:40,445 --> 01:19:43,975
that you would recommend
someone buy the spores of just

1673
01:19:43,975 --> 01:19:45,535
to increase their likelihood

1674
01:19:45,595 --> 01:19:48,135
of success if they're
gonna do it the janky

1675
01:19:48,135 --> 01:19:49,255
way I described Mm-Hmm.

1676
01:19:49,295 --> 01:19:51,735
<affirmative> where you're just
gonna like squirt the spores

1677
01:19:51,735 --> 01:19:53,135
out of the syringe onto the pile.

1678
01:19:53,135 --> 01:19:55,975
Because I know there's a lot
of people out there like me,

1679
01:19:56,155 --> 01:19:58,735
who, who as soon as you said Petri dishes,

1680
01:19:59,185 --> 01:20:00,975
their eyes rolled, you know?

1681
01:20:01,035 --> 01:20:03,055
Yep. And they're like, oh God, I'm just,

1682
01:20:03,115 --> 01:20:04,215
I'm just not that kind of person.

1683
01:20:04,475 --> 01:20:06,735
I'm gonna buy this thing and
I'm gonna go squirt it on my

1684
01:20:06,735 --> 01:20:08,445
pile, and then I'm gonna let it rot

1685
01:20:08,465 --> 01:20:10,085
and I hope for good stuff in the fall.

1686
01:20:10,425 --> 01:20:12,445
And so, right. So for all of those people,

1687
01:20:12,455 --> 01:20:15,005
which include me like, like, mm-Hmm.

1688
01:20:15,045 --> 01:20:17,045
<affirmative>, like, is, is
there one particular variety

1689
01:20:17,075 --> 01:20:20,845
that we, that we might
wanna focus on that is more,

1690
01:20:21,245 --> 01:20:22,565
I don't know, aggressive, perhaps?

1691
01:20:23,235 --> 01:20:24,365
- Yeah, that's a good question.

1692
01:20:24,645 --> 01:20:29,405
I think Azure essence are
definitely more technical as far

1693
01:20:29,405 --> 01:20:32,125
as, uh, cultivating, they're
a little more finicky.

1694
01:20:32,825 --> 01:20:36,925
The senescent you'll find
more frequently out in public,

1695
01:20:37,385 --> 01:20:39,765
and they are, uh, more aggressive

1696
01:20:39,945 --> 01:20:41,645
and like different substrates.

1697
01:20:41,645 --> 01:20:42,845
So you'll probably that,

1698
01:20:43,565 --> 01:20:47,205
I would say my top three would
probably be Senes essence,

1699
01:20:48,585 --> 01:20:50,885
ovoids and Alinea.

1700
01:20:51,425 --> 01:20:54,925
As far as, uh, the, the ease of success.

1701
01:20:55,845 --> 01:20:58,285
Ovoids tend to fruit both in the fall

1702
01:20:58,305 --> 01:21:00,085
and the spring, which are really cool.

1703
01:21:00,715 --> 01:21:04,565
They technically fruit more in
the spring than in the fall,

1704
01:21:04,655 --> 01:21:06,285
which is kind of a cool thing

1705
01:21:06,285 --> 01:21:07,845
because most fruit in the fall,

1706
01:21:08,305 --> 01:21:13,125
and then also I've seen ovoids
that really just aggressively

1707
01:21:14,815 --> 01:21:16,985
consume whatever substrates available.

1708
01:21:17,215 --> 01:21:20,805
Like they'll, they'll consume evergreen

1709
01:21:21,065 --> 01:21:25,005
and other plant life and
all kinds of different wood.

1710
01:21:25,225 --> 01:21:28,085
So they're, they're a lot more aggressive

1711
01:21:28,195 --> 01:21:29,195
- Overall.

1712
01:21:29,195 --> 01:21:29,725
They're like, gi, gimme something to eat.

1713
01:21:29,805 --> 01:21:31,365
I don't care what it is. Let's go. Yeah.

1714
01:21:31,675 --> 01:21:33,205
- Yeah. So I, you know,

1715
01:21:33,365 --> 01:21:36,325
I would say maybe Ovoids
would be top, top on the list

1716
01:21:36,385 --> 01:21:40,605
as far as ease and
flexibility in the seasons.

1717
01:21:41,085 --> 01:21:42,645
- I like, like that idea that you get two

1718
01:21:42,645 --> 01:21:43,685
flushes a year too.

1719
01:21:44,145 --> 01:21:45,365
Um, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which leads me

1720
01:21:45,365 --> 01:21:47,685
to my next question, which
is gonna be, you know, most

1721
01:21:47,685 --> 01:21:50,685
of the wood lovers are
known for being fall, um,

1722
01:21:51,065 --> 01:21:52,565
fruits, um, mm-Hmm.

1723
01:21:52,605 --> 01:21:54,205
<affirmative>. Is there
a reason why they don't

1724
01:21:54,205 --> 01:21:55,445
fruit in the spring as well?

1725
01:21:55,445 --> 01:21:58,405
Because, you know, with, with
many species of plants, you,

1726
01:21:58,705 --> 01:22:00,085
you, they, they will go

1727
01:22:00,085 --> 01:22:02,125
through the same experience in the spring

1728
01:22:02,555 --> 01:22:04,885
because there's this,
this window when the,

1729
01:22:04,955 --> 01:22:06,165
when the temperature's right.

1730
01:22:06,165 --> 01:22:07,485
And the moisture's, right?

1731
01:22:08,065 --> 01:22:10,805
And, and, and then they
do their thing, and then,

1732
01:22:10,865 --> 01:22:12,605
and then in the fall they do it again

1733
01:22:12,605 --> 01:22:13,925
because the moisture's, right?

1734
01:22:14,265 --> 01:22:15,765
And the, the heat is right.

1735
01:22:15,765 --> 01:22:17,565
And so they're like,
there's two windows a year,

1736
01:22:17,905 --> 01:22:19,805
but then there's also lots of fungi

1737
01:22:19,805 --> 01:22:22,165
and lots of plants where they're
all like, no, we are gonna,

1738
01:22:22,375 --> 01:22:24,605
we're gonna flower during
this one time of year.

1739
01:22:24,665 --> 01:22:26,205
And that's it. So you better pay

1740
01:22:26,205 --> 01:22:27,485
attention so you can see the flowers.

1741
01:22:28,265 --> 01:22:31,205
And, and so now you've just
described the ovoids often have

1742
01:22:31,325 --> 01:22:34,485
a spring and a fall flush, whereas the

1743
01:22:35,205 --> 01:22:38,805
senescence I'm gathering,
um, is really just fall

1744
01:22:38,865 --> 01:22:40,285
and there isn't a spring one.

1745
01:22:40,665 --> 01:22:42,605
Do we know about that, those mechanics?

1746
01:22:43,525 --> 01:22:45,365
- I wish I, that's a great question.

1747
01:22:45,675 --> 01:22:48,725
That would be an intriguing
mystery to solve.

1748
01:22:49,645 --> 01:22:52,285
I, I'm not sure, um, you know,

1749
01:22:52,285 --> 01:22:53,685
- We run
- Into, I can't even really think of it.

1750
01:22:53,965 --> 01:22:56,285
I can't think of anything really off the

1751
01:22:56,285 --> 01:22:57,445
top of my head of why.

1752
01:22:58,345 --> 01:23:00,965
- And that is one of the
reasons why it would be so cool

1753
01:23:01,025 --> 01:23:04,125
to be back in college
and be a mushroom nerd

1754
01:23:04,625 --> 01:23:06,605
and suddenly be coming into mushrooms.

1755
01:23:06,605 --> 01:23:08,005
Because, you know, when, when you

1756
01:23:08,005 --> 01:23:11,565
and I were, you know, in our
twenties back in the day, um,

1757
01:23:11,785 --> 01:23:14,805
you know, if you had this
interest, um, you had

1758
01:23:14,805 --> 01:23:16,965
to do it like totally on the down low

1759
01:23:17,225 --> 01:23:19,085
and you had to make sure
nobody knew about it.

1760
01:23:19,185 --> 01:23:20,485
And, you know, you'd have your spot

1761
01:23:20,485 --> 01:23:21,565
in the forest or whatever.

1762
01:23:21,705 --> 01:23:24,965
And, um, because it was
not nearly as acceptable

1763
01:23:24,985 --> 01:23:27,125
as it is now, but now,
you know, we've got,

1764
01:23:27,255 --> 01:23:28,325
we've got universities

1765
01:23:28,325 --> 01:23:30,805
with cannabis cultivation
programs and Right.

1766
01:23:30,985 --> 01:23:32,045
And, you know, everybody

1767
01:23:32,065 --> 01:23:34,485
and their neighbor is into, um, you know,

1768
01:23:34,845 --> 01:23:36,245
functional mushrooms for this or that.

1769
01:23:36,595 --> 01:23:40,685
What a great time to be,
you know, in your twenties

1770
01:23:41,225 --> 01:23:45,045
or, you know, or, or at,
at the start of a career

1771
01:23:45,265 --> 01:23:46,845
and being able to go into this

1772
01:23:46,845 --> 01:23:49,085
because there is so much
research to be done.

1773
01:23:49,395 --> 01:23:50,845
Just like the question I asked you

1774
01:23:51,505 --> 01:23:53,565
- On so many levels, it it is amazing.

1775
01:23:53,745 --> 01:23:55,805
I'm so glad that I was able
to see it in my lifetime.

1776
01:23:55,845 --> 01:23:57,445
I was getting a little
worried there. Yeah. <laugh>.

1777
01:23:58,235 --> 01:24:01,525
- Well, hopefully it'll
all continue then. Yeah.

1778
01:24:01,595 --> 01:24:04,885
Alright, so, so the next
thing I wanna do is, is, uh,

1779
01:24:05,345 --> 01:24:08,405
you know, I, you know,
you, you taught me how

1780
01:24:08,425 --> 01:24:11,845
to make these installations, um, from,

1781
01:24:12,075 --> 01:24:15,245
from a wildcrafted mycelium
source, um, Mm-Hmm.

1782
01:24:15,285 --> 01:24:17,685
<affirmative>. But instead
of me talking about it,

1783
01:24:17,925 --> 01:24:22,005
I would love you just to walk
us through the steps of making

1784
01:24:22,525 --> 01:24:24,765
a, what we've just started
calling on the island,

1785
01:24:25,005 --> 01:24:27,365
a lasagna installation,
which is a little wordy for

1786
01:24:27,365 --> 01:24:28,365
what it is, I guess, but,

1787
01:24:28,625 --> 01:24:30,485
but at least everybody knows
what we're talking about.

1788
01:24:30,945 --> 01:24:34,405
So, so, so the assumptions I
want you to start with is, um,

1789
01:24:34,625 --> 01:24:37,685
we, we, we have identified
a place on the part on the

1790
01:24:37,925 --> 01:24:42,885
property, um, that has got
some, um, uh, tree cover and,

1791
01:24:42,905 --> 01:24:44,925
and yet it's on the edge of the, of trees.

1792
01:24:45,145 --> 01:24:48,365
And so it, it gets partial
sunlight during the day

1793
01:24:48,945 --> 01:24:52,365
and that it's gonna be moist
most of the season, except

1794
01:24:52,365 --> 01:24:53,925
for maybe during the
drought part of the season

1795
01:24:53,925 --> 01:24:55,125
where you might have to water it.

1796
01:24:55,225 --> 01:24:57,365
So, so we've got a decent place

1797
01:24:58,065 --> 01:25:02,045
and we have identified some
hardwood chips that we can use.

1798
01:25:02,425 --> 01:25:04,205
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So
we've got our hardwood chips,

1799
01:25:04,545 --> 01:25:07,205
and we've got a couple of shovel fulls

1800
01:25:07,385 --> 01:25:09,885
of inoculated mycelium
that we found in the wild.

1801
01:25:10,105 --> 01:25:13,445
Please walk us through how to
do the install, uh, at home.

1802
01:25:14,235 --> 01:25:18,725
- Okay. There, there is
a precursor to this patch

1803
01:25:18,835 --> 01:25:22,675
that can be very

1804
01:25:23,755 --> 01:25:25,955
positive in the success
of your future patch.

1805
01:25:26,435 --> 01:25:27,635
A lot of people, you know,

1806
01:25:28,465 --> 01:25:32,595
with es grows mono tub is
kind of a frequent word

1807
01:25:32,595 --> 01:25:34,715
that you might hear, but
it's basically just a plastic

1808
01:25:34,785 --> 01:25:37,075
container that people
start their mushrooms in.

1809
01:25:37,535 --> 01:25:41,195
And growers that are
experimenting with wood loving

1810
01:25:42,145 --> 01:25:44,795
varieties are having good success with

1811
01:25:45,515 --> 01:25:47,675
starting their mycelium
in a mono tub, basically.

1812
01:25:48,095 --> 01:25:51,395
And so you, you have your mycelium

1813
01:25:51,585 --> 01:25:53,715
that you've got from a friend's patch

1814
01:25:53,735 --> 01:25:57,235
or wherever out in the wild,
you could layer a little piece

1815
01:25:57,235 --> 01:26:00,555
of cardboard down on the
bottom of the plastic container

1816
01:26:00,555 --> 01:26:04,645
to kind of be an absorption
of excess moisture, as well

1817
01:26:04,645 --> 01:26:06,325
as like a platform for this.

1818
01:26:06,705 --> 01:26:08,805
The culture to really
run through the paper

1819
01:26:09,105 --> 01:26:13,965
and have a nice foundation,
I find that as, uh,

1820
01:26:14,325 --> 01:26:16,005
mushrooms are used to being in the ground

1821
01:26:16,265 --> 01:26:19,005
or inside something and
then growing outwards.

1822
01:26:19,225 --> 01:26:22,805
So to have your mycelium at
the bottom of your container

1823
01:26:22,825 --> 01:26:26,045
and then growing outwards
at the top is seems

1824
01:26:26,045 --> 01:26:27,685
to be a little more successful.

1825
01:26:28,475 --> 01:26:31,375
And then, like you're saying,
the lasagna layer is just, uh,

1826
01:26:31,955 --> 01:26:36,455
you know, a metaphor for
creating layers in your container

1827
01:26:36,455 --> 01:26:37,495
of different substrates.

1828
01:26:37,495 --> 01:26:40,575
So, um, with your mycelium at the base,

1829
01:26:40,645 --> 01:26:45,295
then you want another fresh
layer of either sawdust

1830
01:26:45,475 --> 01:26:49,735
or, um, sawdust mixed with
wood chips or just wood chips,

1831
01:26:49,995 --> 01:26:53,495
and then layer more wood
chips, maybe a little bit

1832
01:26:53,495 --> 01:26:54,735
of sawdust if you have it.

1833
01:26:55,155 --> 01:26:58,375
You could even use straw
if your straw doesn't have,

1834
01:26:58,755 --> 01:27:01,135
you know, if you can
find organic straws best,

1835
01:27:01,235 --> 01:27:02,535
it doesn't have herbicides,

1836
01:27:03,195 --> 01:27:07,015
but you can layer straw in
with your wood mixture as well

1837
01:27:07,235 --> 01:27:10,455
to kind of give it a little
different airspace so

1838
01:27:10,455 --> 01:27:13,495
that there's, you, you
don't want to create like a

1839
01:27:14,735 --> 01:27:16,895
anaerobic condition
where it can't breathe,

1840
01:27:17,635 --> 01:27:20,255
but creating enough food source that,

1841
01:27:20,255 --> 01:27:22,495
that my stone will just keep rising up

1842
01:27:22,495 --> 01:27:24,735
through your substrate
until it reaches the top.

1843
01:27:25,355 --> 01:27:27,095
And then this is like your spawn

1844
01:27:27,445 --> 01:27:31,135
that you can take clumps
from this mono tub of spawn

1845
01:27:31,275 --> 01:27:35,175
of substrate and then use that as a seed

1846
01:27:35,235 --> 01:27:37,975
or a spawn for all the
patches that you wanna make.

1847
01:27:39,155 --> 01:27:41,535
So that's kind of a, a better way to,

1848
01:27:41,835 --> 01:27:43,495
to increase your culture

1849
01:27:44,195 --> 01:27:46,855
before you actually get
started in your patch.

1850
01:27:47,475 --> 01:27:49,135
If you didn't want to
go through that process

1851
01:27:49,275 --> 01:27:50,895
and you're just excited to start a patch,

1852
01:27:51,675 --> 01:27:54,735
you basically do the same
thing just without the plastic

1853
01:27:54,805 --> 01:27:58,535
container outside, like you
said, you found your, your

1854
01:27:59,095 --> 01:28:01,775
location, you might want to, uh,

1855
01:28:01,975 --> 01:28:04,815
saturate some cardboard in water till

1856
01:28:04,815 --> 01:28:05,935
it's completely soaked.

1857
01:28:06,355 --> 01:28:08,815
Put your culture or your mycelium down on

1858
01:28:08,815 --> 01:28:12,375
that gives it a nice platform
foundation to leap off of

1859
01:28:12,915 --> 01:28:15,975
and then layer up your chips
and your sawdust and chips

1860
01:28:15,995 --> 01:28:17,215
or whatever you have available,

1861
01:28:18,075 --> 01:28:21,175
and maybe top it off with a
little bit of cardboard on top

1862
01:28:21,275 --> 01:28:23,455
to protect it if you don't
have a lot of tree cover

1863
01:28:24,035 --> 01:28:27,255
or a wet straw. Basically,

1864
01:28:27,965 --> 01:28:31,335
- When we were doing our
installs two weeks ago from, uh,

1865
01:28:31,375 --> 01:28:34,015
from that source I was telling
you about, somebody asked me

1866
01:28:34,075 --> 01:28:36,735
how many layers they should
put in their lasagna,

1867
01:28:36,915 --> 01:28:39,535
and I had no idea I was
just doing three layers

1868
01:28:39,535 --> 01:28:43,855
because that's how much,
um, mycelium, inoculate

1869
01:28:43,875 --> 01:28:45,055
and cardboard I had.

1870
01:28:45,055 --> 01:28:46,775
Right. Um, but does it, yeah.

1871
01:28:46,775 --> 01:28:48,455
Does it matter whether it's two layers,

1872
01:28:48,905 --> 01:28:50,415
three layers, five layers?

1873
01:28:50,695 --> 01:28:53,095
I mean, is there, is there
any analysis in that?

1874
01:28:53,755 --> 01:28:56,135
- That's a good question. The more food

1875
01:28:56,245 --> 01:28:58,255
that you give your mushroom

1876
01:28:58,395 --> 01:29:01,285
or your mycelium, the longer it might take

1877
01:29:01,745 --> 01:29:05,325
to actually fruit, because
we have to remind the viewers

1878
01:29:05,325 --> 01:29:08,245
that mushrooms are like
the last reproductive cycle

1879
01:29:08,425 --> 01:29:11,445
of the mycelium and it thinks it's dying.

1880
01:29:11,625 --> 01:29:14,965
So it's creating a mushroom
to create spores to reproduce.

1881
01:29:15,545 --> 01:29:18,885
So we're in essence trying
to give it just enough food

1882
01:29:19,525 --> 01:29:22,525
to really grow out, make
the mycelium strong,

1883
01:29:22,985 --> 01:29:25,125
and get it to the point
where it's ready to burst

1884
01:29:25,225 --> 01:29:27,325
and start creating these little mushrooms.

1885
01:29:28,025 --> 01:29:29,485
So it is a lot of timing

1886
01:29:30,745 --> 01:29:34,085
and experimentation in your
area of like your culture,

1887
01:29:34,345 --> 01:29:36,285
how fast it's growing
through your substrate.

1888
01:29:37,065 --> 01:29:38,445
It might take a year

1889
01:29:38,785 --> 01:29:42,965
or two seasons of like
experimenting to see, oh, I,

1890
01:29:43,125 --> 01:29:46,565
I should have, you know,
this season it, the spring,

1891
01:29:46,825 --> 01:29:48,125
it was really cold.

1892
01:29:48,685 --> 01:29:51,605
I got my patch in late. It
got really hot in the summer.

1893
01:29:52,165 --> 01:29:54,085
I didn't water it, it dried out.

1894
01:29:54,185 --> 01:29:57,085
You know, there's, there's lots
of different variable season

1895
01:29:57,185 --> 01:30:01,805
to season, but I technically
think the more, the better.

1896
01:30:02,305 --> 01:30:04,525
You might have to wait
longer for your harvest,

1897
01:30:05,145 --> 01:30:06,405
but the more substrate

1898
01:30:06,425 --> 01:30:10,205
and the more layers that you
put in with, um, a lot of,

1899
01:30:10,205 --> 01:30:12,925
if you can create your mycelium
first, like I was saying,

1900
01:30:12,985 --> 01:30:16,365
and the little plastic tub,
then you, you can really

1901
01:30:16,955 --> 01:30:20,885
inoculate heavily with
mycelium in a lot of

1902
01:30:21,435 --> 01:30:25,445
substrate that then will
create a really aggressive,

1903
01:30:26,505 --> 01:30:29,285
robust patch that will potentially fruit

1904
01:30:29,345 --> 01:30:30,565
for a couple seasons for you.

1905
01:30:30,945 --> 01:30:34,045
So I'd start bigger than
smaller if you're really serious

1906
01:30:34,135 --> 01:30:37,925
about like, trying to get
a successful patch going.

1907
01:30:38,285 --> 01:30:41,605
'cause it can be, it, it,
there's so many variables, you

1908
01:30:41,605 --> 01:30:42,605
- Know?

1909
01:30:42,605 --> 01:30:43,445
Yeah, totally. Well, that's
why, you know, kind of,

1910
01:30:43,465 --> 01:30:45,805
you're kind of giving us
like a loose recipe, right?

1911
01:30:45,905 --> 01:30:47,565
And then Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>.
And then depending on

1912
01:30:47,565 --> 01:30:51,285
where we live and what materials
we have access to, we kind

1913
01:30:51,285 --> 01:30:54,645
of apply that recipe like
however we can where we live.

1914
01:30:55,105 --> 01:30:58,645
You know, I had never heard
the idea of starting, um,

1915
01:30:59,315 --> 01:31:03,085
your mycelium in a mono tub outdoors.

1916
01:31:03,235 --> 01:31:04,605
That is a really interesting idea

1917
01:31:04,605 --> 01:31:07,485
because you're kind of, uh,
creating an incubation, right?

1918
01:31:07,485 --> 01:31:12,245
You're kind, or like, you know,
we talk about, um, uh, uh,

1919
01:31:13,675 --> 01:31:15,485
aerated compost teas a lot, right?

1920
01:31:15,545 --> 01:31:19,325
So you take your basic,
uh, oxygen loving microbes

1921
01:31:19,325 --> 01:31:22,045
and you're putting it in
your, in your, uh, bubbler,

1922
01:31:22,465 --> 01:31:24,325
and then you're bubbling
it so that you make a lot,

1923
01:31:24,325 --> 01:31:25,445
a lot, lot more microbes.

1924
01:31:25,585 --> 01:31:27,805
And then you, and then you
put that on your plant.

1925
01:31:27,875 --> 01:31:29,325
This is the kind of the same thing

1926
01:31:29,655 --> 01:31:32,285
where we're talking about,
okay, we've got, we've got this,

1927
01:31:32,305 --> 01:31:34,245
you know, shovel full of mycelium

1928
01:31:34,665 --> 01:31:36,365
and we, we wanna make a big patch,

1929
01:31:36,465 --> 01:31:39,765
so let's put it in the mono
tub with a whole bunch of, um,

1930
01:31:39,965 --> 01:31:42,885
hardwood sawdust and chips and cardboard,

1931
01:31:43,105 --> 01:31:47,485
and let it grow through
the tub so that when we go

1932
01:31:47,825 --> 01:31:50,525
to make the outdoor installation,

1933
01:31:51,015 --> 01:31:53,805
we're not just using one shovel full.

1934
01:31:54,215 --> 01:31:57,245
We've got, you know, this,
this quarter of a tub full.

1935
01:31:57,585 --> 01:31:59,165
And we're like, hell yeah, let's go.

1936
01:31:59,465 --> 01:32:00,845
That's a really great idea,

1937
01:32:01,095 --> 01:32:03,485
especially if you only have
a little bit to work with.

1938
01:32:04,025 --> 01:32:08,605
Now, I wanna ask you, how
much do you think, like when,

1939
01:32:08,605 --> 01:32:10,045
when we say a lot or a little,

1940
01:32:10,825 --> 01:32:12,125
how should people think about that?

1941
01:32:12,235 --> 01:32:14,005
Like, how, how do they
know how much they have

1942
01:32:14,005 --> 01:32:15,685
to make their installation

1943
01:32:15,985 --> 01:32:18,725
and let, let's use, let's
use me as an example.

1944
01:32:19,225 --> 01:32:22,205
So from, so from this
huge eight by 10 area,

1945
01:32:22,425 --> 01:32:24,365
we didn't even take like half of it.

1946
01:32:24,745 --> 01:32:28,445
Um, but we got five, five
gallon buckets full, right?

1947
01:32:28,745 --> 01:32:29,965
So that's, those, that's like I,

1948
01:32:29,985 --> 01:32:34,565
and to me that sounds like a
ton of, you know, myceliated,

1949
01:32:35,145 --> 01:32:38,685
um, mushroom or wood chips for us to use.

1950
01:32:38,785 --> 01:32:40,405
And then we, we took those five

1951
01:32:40,545 --> 01:32:43,205
and then we split it up
between five locations, right?

1952
01:32:43,545 --> 01:32:45,045
And so we used, you know, more

1953
01:32:45,045 --> 01:32:49,165
or less a five gallon bucket
along with the other cardboard

1954
01:32:49,505 --> 01:32:51,165
and, um, hardwood chips.

1955
01:32:51,465 --> 01:32:55,885
Now using that as the example
was that like, you know, is,

1956
01:32:55,945 --> 01:32:58,565
is a five gallon bucket,
like a whole ton where,

1957
01:32:58,625 --> 01:33:00,485
or where we only need a little bit, kind

1958
01:33:00,485 --> 01:33:02,245
of like think it through for us.

1959
01:33:03,275 --> 01:33:06,445
- Yeah. I, I would say
a five gallon bucket

1960
01:33:06,505 --> 01:33:09,365
of my CD ships would be enough spawn

1961
01:33:09,825 --> 01:33:12,085
to inoculate.

1962
01:33:12,565 --> 01:33:14,445
I mean, you can stretch
it out however you want,

1963
01:33:14,585 --> 01:33:17,845
but to make a nice successful
patch, I think more is better.

1964
01:33:18,385 --> 01:33:22,295
So amplifying your
mycelium, like you said in,

1965
01:33:22,355 --> 01:33:24,775
in the Tupperware, and then using like,

1966
01:33:24,835 --> 01:33:25,935
or a five gallon bucket

1967
01:33:26,235 --> 01:33:30,535
and then maybe a four foot
by four foot squared space,

1968
01:33:31,235 --> 01:33:34,295
almost two feet in depth of substrate

1969
01:33:34,905 --> 01:33:38,655
would be like a five gallon
bucket of an inoculum.

1970
01:33:39,075 --> 01:33:42,415
You could maybe do like a, you
could push that to five foot

1971
01:33:42,715 --> 01:33:44,735
by five feet, or, you
know, whatever you think.

1972
01:33:45,395 --> 01:33:48,135
But the depth of the substrate
too is something to consider

1973
01:33:48,565 --> 01:33:51,575
because, um, that mycelium needs

1974
01:33:51,575 --> 01:33:54,135
to get mixed into the bottom
all nice and thoroughly,

1975
01:33:54,135 --> 01:33:55,455
and then you want it all to kind

1976
01:33:55,455 --> 01:33:58,895
of expand out together instead
of having a lot of patches

1977
01:33:58,965 --> 01:34:00,415
that aren't colonizing.

1978
01:34:00,755 --> 01:34:04,455
And so, yeah, I'd say
five foot by five foot

1979
01:34:04,475 --> 01:34:07,015
for a five gallon bucket of my son. Okay.

1980
01:34:07,035 --> 01:34:09,775
- So, so if we have a five gallon bucket,

1981
01:34:09,955 --> 01:34:12,775
we know we have tons of,
we, we know we have plenty

1982
01:34:12,875 --> 01:34:16,295
of myceliated wood chips
and, and we're clear, but,

1983
01:34:16,315 --> 01:34:19,535
but like, give us an idea of
what is the, the least amount

1984
01:34:19,535 --> 01:34:23,735
that we should, uh, try to
start a pile with without trying

1985
01:34:23,735 --> 01:34:27,175
to incubate and make
more in a mono tub first.

1986
01:34:27,565 --> 01:34:31,855
Like, if we only have a,
uh, you know, a a, um,

1987
01:34:32,235 --> 01:34:34,935
sh one shovel full, um, is, is

1988
01:34:34,935 --> 01:34:38,895
that just like too precariously
low amount to like, try

1989
01:34:38,915 --> 01:34:41,815
to make a three foot by
three foot bed width and,

1990
01:34:41,835 --> 01:34:44,415
and we should definitely
go with the mono tub first.

1991
01:34:44,485 --> 01:34:46,615
Like, like give it,
gimme a threshold point.

1992
01:34:46,755 --> 01:34:50,735
How do we know when we have
too little amount to go right

1993
01:34:50,735 --> 01:34:52,615
to nature and we should incubate first?

1994
01:34:53,515 --> 01:34:54,895
- Oh, that's a great question.

1995
01:34:55,695 --> 01:34:57,765
I, you know, I always tell my students

1996
01:34:57,865 --> 01:34:58,925
to push the boundaries.

1997
01:34:58,985 --> 01:35:00,365
If you don't have what you need,

1998
01:35:00,365 --> 01:35:01,805
maybe go a little bit smaller.

1999
01:35:02,265 --> 01:35:04,005
Uh, yeah, A shovel's worth

2000
01:35:04,025 --> 01:35:07,125
of really decent mycelium
would probably be able to do

2001
01:35:07,805 --> 01:35:12,125
a three foot by three foot,
um, by two foot little patch.

2002
01:35:12,465 --> 01:35:15,845
You know? Um, I, it just
depends on the culture

2003
01:35:15,865 --> 01:35:18,925
and how aggressive it is and
all the different variables.

2004
01:35:19,045 --> 01:35:20,965
I can't say for sure, I
don't wanna promise anybody,

2005
01:35:20,985 --> 01:35:23,845
but I would say you'd be on
the safe side to still be able

2006
01:35:23,845 --> 01:35:25,685
to have a significant patch just

2007
01:35:25,685 --> 01:35:27,045
with the shovel full. Okay,

2008
01:35:27,045 --> 01:35:28,045
- Good.

2009
01:35:28,045 --> 01:35:28,605
Well, that, that, that's a lot less

2010
01:35:28,605 --> 01:35:29,765
than I thought, so that's great.

2011
01:35:29,765 --> 01:35:32,165
That really opens up, uh,
the door for a lot more folks

2012
01:35:32,165 --> 01:35:34,845
because god knows it's,
you know, a lot easier

2013
01:35:34,905 --> 01:35:36,645
to find a small patch than it is like

2014
01:35:36,645 --> 01:35:38,165
that big one that I stumbled upon.

2015
01:35:38,165 --> 01:35:40,405
Right. Right. Which will
be, you know, given out

2016
01:35:40,405 --> 01:35:43,205
to people on the island for,
for years to come now. Um,

2017
01:35:43,205 --> 01:35:45,925
- Yeah, A little, little
side point on the mono tubs,

2018
01:35:46,145 --> 01:35:49,325
people actually grow and fruit
in the mono tubs as well.

2019
01:35:49,985 --> 01:35:53,925
So they're creating these
little mini habitats within the

2020
01:35:53,925 --> 01:35:56,925
mono tub, actually having a,

2021
01:35:56,925 --> 01:36:00,245
maybe a little grass seed on
top producing a little carpet

2022
01:36:00,505 --> 01:36:04,205
so that they have like
this ground cover essence,

2023
01:36:04,265 --> 01:36:06,605
but it's still all in
a mono tub basically.

2024
01:36:06,825 --> 01:36:08,485
And they're fruiting out of the mono tubs,

2025
01:36:08,705 --> 01:36:10,965
but it is a seasonality thing outside

2026
01:36:10,975 --> 01:36:15,645
where you're keeping things
outside, but they're cultivated.

2027
01:36:15,895 --> 01:36:17,645
- You'd have to drill drill holes

2028
01:36:17,665 --> 01:36:19,605
for drainage in the bottom right. Yep.

2029
01:36:19,705 --> 01:36:22,445
- Yep. - That actually sounds
like a lot of fun. Yeah.

2030
01:36:22,445 --> 01:36:25,325
Like, I'm not, I'm not like a
big proponent of like, like,

2031
01:36:25,435 --> 01:36:28,165
like let, let's add
plastic tubs outdoors, but,

2032
01:36:28,585 --> 01:36:31,565
but it sure sounds like fun
<laugh> to like, to do it

2033
01:36:31,595 --> 01:36:33,805
with this more, uh, more
controlled environment.

2034
01:36:34,395 --> 01:36:38,485
- Yeah. Not everyone has an a
backyard or access to a yard,

2035
01:36:38,625 --> 01:36:40,045
or they live in an apartment. Yeah.

2036
01:36:40,045 --> 01:36:41,045
- That we could do it in a deck. Yeah,

2037
01:36:41,115 --> 01:36:41,925
- Yeah, yeah. Totally.

2038
01:36:41,945 --> 01:36:43,765
- That's a really good point.
Yep. Thank you for that.

2039
01:36:44,425 --> 01:36:47,125
Um, a question about the two foot depth.

2040
01:36:47,785 --> 01:36:50,725
Um, so that got my attention

2041
01:36:50,725 --> 01:36:53,805
because none of the five we
made was two feet deep, right?

2042
01:36:54,225 --> 01:36:58,085
Um, um, each of them, they
all ended, only ended up like,

2043
01:36:58,145 --> 01:37:00,165
you know, 12 or 13 inches.

2044
01:37:00,715 --> 01:37:03,365
- Okay.
- Do you know if, if they're, if,

2045
01:37:03,385 --> 01:37:07,045
if we're building this
lasagna on bare ground,

2046
01:37:07,635 --> 01:37:10,565
does the ground count
for some of this two feet

2047
01:37:11,645 --> 01:37:12,645
- <laugh>?

2048
01:37:12,645 --> 01:37:14,005
If the ground is soft

2049
01:37:14,105 --> 01:37:17,125
and has the same kind of
substrate that the mushroom likes,

2050
01:37:17,125 --> 01:37:21,365
then yes, it's okay that your
patches weren't too deep.

2051
01:37:21,365 --> 01:37:25,925
You're going to need more care
in the long run to make sure

2052
01:37:25,925 --> 01:37:27,405
that they don't dry out.

2053
01:37:27,945 --> 01:37:29,645
So in the summer, definitely go out there

2054
01:37:29,645 --> 01:37:30,965
and water, uh,

2055
01:37:30,985 --> 01:37:34,085
you might wanna put a cardboard
layer over the top in the

2056
01:37:34,085 --> 01:37:38,525
extreme heat as you water, you
are watering your cardboard.

2057
01:37:38,525 --> 01:37:41,085
That then helps create a humid
environment for your patch.

2058
01:37:41,585 --> 01:37:45,405
So the, the less depth in your patch,

2059
01:37:45,505 --> 01:37:48,005
the more care is gonna take
throughout the year just

2060
01:37:48,005 --> 01:37:50,405
to make sure the extreme
temperatures don't.

2061
01:37:50,515 --> 01:37:51,685
- That makes sense. Yeah.

2062
01:37:51,685 --> 01:37:53,125
That, that happens with aquariums too.

2063
01:37:53,145 --> 01:37:55,525
You know, if you have a little
aquarium, the environment

2064
01:37:55,525 --> 01:37:57,645
of the aquarium changes really quickly.

2065
01:37:57,785 --> 01:38:00,205
But if you've got a, you know,
a big a hundred, 200 gallon,

2066
01:38:00,625 --> 01:38:02,125
it really takes a more push

2067
01:38:02,305 --> 01:38:04,325
to change the environment
that the fish are in.

2068
01:38:04,435 --> 01:38:06,725
Kind of the same thing
for this patch as well.

2069
01:38:07,265 --> 01:38:09,845
Um, so lip,

2070
01:38:10,175 --> 01:38:11,605
- Straw, straw would be another Mm-Hmm.

2071
01:38:11,645 --> 01:38:13,885
<affirmative> good. Uh, allo ally,

2072
01:38:14,315 --> 01:38:15,645
- When we're, when we're watering,

2073
01:38:15,655 --> 01:38:18,085
we're not gonna be using
municipal water, right?

2074
01:38:18,085 --> 01:38:19,645
Because it might have chlorine

2075
01:38:19,645 --> 01:38:21,885
or chloramines in it,
which I'm guessing messes

2076
01:38:21,915 --> 01:38:23,845
with our mycelium.

2077
01:38:23,865 --> 01:38:26,165
And so we want to, uh,

2078
01:38:26,165 --> 01:38:28,005
capture some rainwater
and use that. Right.

2079
01:38:28,785 --> 01:38:31,365
- It definitely helps.
Uh, chlorine definitely

2080
01:38:32,385 --> 01:38:33,765
is problematic.

2081
01:38:34,785 --> 01:38:37,325
You, you, you're gonna get some growth,

2082
01:38:37,505 --> 01:38:40,605
but it just tends to inhibit.

2083
01:38:41,395 --> 01:38:42,765
- Yeah. So if we have,

2084
01:38:42,865 --> 01:38:44,245
if if we don't have, I've heard of it.

2085
01:38:44,385 --> 01:38:46,405
If we don't have access to rainwater

2086
01:38:46,625 --> 01:38:50,525
and our city is using, um,
you know, you know, chloride,

2087
01:38:51,125 --> 01:38:54,005
chlorine, and maybe fluoride,
is it reasonable for us

2088
01:38:54,005 --> 01:38:57,205
to just pick up some, uh, you
know, distilled or ro water

2089
01:38:57,225 --> 01:38:58,765
and just use that and we just know,

2090
01:38:58,795 --> 01:39:00,205
know it's kind of like neutral water.

2091
01:39:01,285 --> 01:39:04,935
- Yeah. People can leave
their normal water out in five

2092
01:39:04,935 --> 01:39:06,375
gallon buckets too, and just let the,

2093
01:39:06,795 --> 01:39:08,055
the chlorine evaporate.

2094
01:39:08,195 --> 01:39:10,535
You know, if you leave
buckets of water out for,

2095
01:39:11,335 --> 01:39:13,695
I don't know, maybe a week or two mm-Hmm.

2096
01:39:13,735 --> 01:39:16,775
<affirmative>, um, then you
could use that as a watering

2097
01:39:17,545 --> 01:39:20,335
agent too, if you don't
have access to clean water,

2098
01:39:20,355 --> 01:39:21,455
that's not chlorinated.

2099
01:39:22,315 --> 01:39:24,695
- Um, we've already talked
about, uh, you know,

2100
01:39:24,695 --> 01:39:26,855
several different issues of
things that could go wrong.

2101
01:39:27,515 --> 01:39:28,575
Um, uh, are,

2102
01:39:28,595 --> 01:39:31,815
is there any other big
challenge in growing these wood

2103
01:39:31,815 --> 01:39:35,735
lovers that we haven't, um,
addressed for, you know, as far

2104
01:39:35,735 --> 01:39:36,935
as it goes for the patches?

2105
01:39:37,315 --> 01:39:38,695
Uh, something that I should have asked

2106
01:39:38,695 --> 01:39:39,815
you about that I haven't yet?

2107
01:39:42,005 --> 01:39:43,865
- Oh, good question. Um,

2108
01:39:46,715 --> 01:39:49,005
yeah, I mean, you were
pretty thorough. Shang

2109
01:39:49,325 --> 01:39:50,685
- <laugh>, well, it helps
that you taught me this

2110
01:39:50,715 --> 01:39:51,805
just a few weeks ago, right?

2111
01:39:52,085 --> 01:39:54,645
<laugh>. So, so it is a, it
is kind of fresh, so, alright,

2112
01:39:54,745 --> 01:39:57,125
so let's, let's talk about the
next fun part, which is the,

2113
01:39:57,185 --> 01:39:58,285
the, the harvesting.

2114
01:39:58,945 --> 01:40:01,845
So, um, so, so they're,
they're, they're growing up

2115
01:40:01,845 --> 01:40:02,965
and you've got your caps

2116
01:40:03,385 --> 01:40:08,365
and, um, you know, generally
speaking, uh, do we want to,

2117
01:40:08,465 --> 01:40:11,805
we do, we wanna harvest when
the, when the veils start

2118
01:40:11,865 --> 01:40:15,325
to break and the, and the,
and the caps start to flatten.

2119
01:40:16,365 --> 01:40:18,885
- I like to harvest
earlier than later. Mm-Hmm.

2120
01:40:18,925 --> 01:40:20,685
<affirmative> generally, and it's funny

2121
01:40:20,685 --> 01:40:22,965
with the wood lovers, a lot
of times they cluster together

2122
01:40:23,225 --> 01:40:24,965
so tight that it's hard

2123
01:40:25,225 --> 01:40:27,525
to not just pull up
huge clusters together.

2124
01:40:27,945 --> 01:40:31,085
So you'll, you'll have
some kind of immature ones

2125
01:40:31,085 --> 01:40:32,245
and some mature ones,

2126
01:40:32,345 --> 01:40:34,885
but you generally will
just start harvesting

2127
01:40:35,145 --> 01:40:36,245
the patch all at once.

2128
01:40:36,345 --> 01:40:37,965
You know, if your patch
is big enough, you might,

2129
01:40:37,985 --> 01:40:39,245
it might take you a couple days

2130
01:40:39,245 --> 01:40:40,485
or something, you can just kind of

2131
01:40:41,135 --> 01:40:43,485
start taking the more mature mushrooms

2132
01:40:43,485 --> 01:40:46,205
and as you're working through
it, they just keep maturing.

2133
01:40:46,425 --> 01:40:51,045
But I like more, uh, younger
specimens so the caps

2134
01:40:51,775 --> 01:40:54,685
don't just, uh, break apart into nothing.

2135
01:40:54,985 --> 01:40:57,085
You can have these
nice, beautiful motions,

2136
01:40:57,085 --> 01:41:00,125
but I I, I'm into the
aesthetic look of them as well.

2137
01:41:00,385 --> 01:41:01,685
So I don't know, that's

2138
01:41:01,685 --> 01:41:02,685
- Not necessary.

2139
01:41:02,685 --> 01:41:03,045
They look really cool
together when there's lots

2140
01:41:03,045 --> 01:41:04,645
of different stages of growth together.

2141
01:41:05,145 --> 01:41:07,885
Um, it's, it's, I mean it's cute <laugh>.

2142
01:41:08,075 --> 01:41:10,325
Yeah. Um, uh,

2143
01:41:11,025 --> 01:41:12,025
- But you can wait.

2144
01:41:12,025 --> 01:41:13,805
Um, mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
wait for 'em to flatten out.

2145
01:41:13,805 --> 01:41:15,405
Some people think that, you know,

2146
01:41:15,405 --> 01:41:18,045
they might get a little more
weight from that or something,

2147
01:41:18,105 --> 01:41:20,925
but I, i, I feel like it, you know,

2148
01:41:21,265 --> 01:41:24,925
if anything you might be
degrading the content, the potency

2149
01:41:25,065 --> 01:41:27,085
of your fruit bodies by waiting longer.

2150
01:41:27,905 --> 01:41:30,165
- Um, I know that some mushroom varieties,

2151
01:41:30,515 --> 01:41:32,605
once the veil is ripped

2152
01:41:32,785 --> 01:41:34,565
and it starts to drop spores,

2153
01:41:34,635 --> 01:41:38,085
this sporulation gives a
signal to the substrate

2154
01:41:38,105 --> 01:41:41,885
to stop fruiting are wood
lovers one of those variety

2155
01:41:41,905 --> 01:41:43,565
of mushrooms where we, you know,

2156
01:41:43,585 --> 01:41:46,885
we really wanna keep it from
dropping too many of the spores

2157
01:41:46,925 --> 01:41:48,285
'cause it's working against us.

2158
01:41:49,625 --> 01:41:51,085
- No, not that I know of. Mm-Hmm.

2159
01:41:51,125 --> 01:41:52,325
<affirmative>, um, that patch just,

2160
01:41:52,415 --> 01:41:54,205
it'll just keep, keep going.

2161
01:41:54,865 --> 01:41:56,005
You'll, you'll have, um,

2162
01:41:56,075 --> 01:42:00,045
some contamination from spores
sometimes where, you know,

2163
01:42:00,185 --> 01:42:04,365
it, it just creates kind of a
dirtiness that will, you know,

2164
01:42:05,345 --> 01:42:09,165
it, it degrades the mushroom
caps when they have large

2165
01:42:09,365 --> 01:42:12,245
spores from another mushroom
cap on top of that cap Yeah.

2166
01:42:12,245 --> 01:42:13,445
Kind of thing. And then it can

2167
01:42:13,445 --> 01:42:14,605
degrade the mushrooms quicker.

2168
01:42:14,675 --> 01:42:16,245
- Yeah. I've gotten that in my mono tubs

2169
01:42:16,245 --> 01:42:17,725
and it's like, ah, <laugh>.

2170
01:42:17,835 --> 01:42:19,845
Yeah. It makes 'em very
unattractive looking.

2171
01:42:19,875 --> 01:42:21,965
They still work, but it's just
very unattractive looking.

2172
01:42:22,515 --> 01:42:25,405
Yeah. Um, four wood lovers.

2173
01:42:25,705 --> 01:42:29,605
Do you recommend, um, harvesting,
uh, for example with like,

2174
01:42:29,625 --> 01:42:32,045
you know, a, a razor
blade around the bottom

2175
01:42:32,045 --> 01:42:34,485
where you're leaving the base in the soil?

2176
01:42:35,025 --> 01:42:37,485
Or are we good to just like pop them out

2177
01:42:37,505 --> 01:42:39,085
and take some of the soil with us

2178
01:42:39,145 --> 01:42:40,565
and then just clean 'em up in the house?

2179
01:42:41,145 --> 01:42:42,885
- That's what I generally do the ladder.

2180
01:42:43,505 --> 01:42:46,685
Uh, and then you can save
those little stem pieces,

2181
01:42:46,865 --> 01:42:50,405
the little roots and transplant those

2182
01:42:50,745 --> 01:42:52,725
and create more mycelium

2183
01:42:52,905 --> 01:42:55,205
or give them to friends or whatever.

2184
01:42:55,465 --> 01:42:58,965
So some people will wash the
roots off, you know, the stems

2185
01:42:58,985 --> 01:43:01,645
and try to salvage as much as possible.

2186
01:43:02,645 --> 01:43:04,705
You know, Maria, Maria Sabina. Mm-Hmm.

2187
01:43:04,745 --> 01:43:07,225
<affirmative>, um, back
in the day said, you know,

2188
01:43:07,555 --> 01:43:08,985
don't cut the feet off.

2189
01:43:09,265 --> 01:43:13,025
'cause the little saints, those
feet are important too. So

2190
01:43:13,265 --> 01:43:14,425
- <laugh> good.

2191
01:43:14,485 --> 01:43:16,865
So, so, so go, you know,
if we're gonna pull 'em up,

2192
01:43:16,885 --> 01:43:18,625
go ahead and cut off the feet and,

2193
01:43:18,685 --> 01:43:20,785
and clean 'em up if you're
gonna do that for yourself,

2194
01:43:20,965 --> 01:43:24,105
but then take the feed and
reintroduce them to your pile.

2195
01:43:24,565 --> 01:43:26,705
Um, mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and,
you know, giving, giving back

2196
01:43:26,705 --> 01:43:28,105
to your pile and, and being

2197
01:43:28,245 --> 01:43:29,745
as efficient about it as you can.

2198
01:43:30,335 --> 01:43:32,425
- Yeah. We're starting
those little mono tubs

2199
01:43:32,445 --> 01:43:33,905
and creating more mycelium.

2200
01:43:33,915 --> 01:43:36,545
- Right on. So now, so let's
say now you've got, um,

2201
01:43:36,845 --> 01:43:39,705
you know, a a a, a couple of paper plates

2202
01:43:39,705 --> 01:43:41,265
or whatever, full of mushrooms.

2203
01:43:41,525 --> 01:43:44,225
How do you recommend going
about, uh, drying them?

2204
01:43:44,245 --> 01:43:46,865
And obviously we're talking
about in a non-commercial

2205
01:43:46,865 --> 01:43:47,905
application here, right?

2206
01:43:47,905 --> 01:43:49,585
We're just talking about
somebody's house. Yeah.

2207
01:43:49,585 --> 01:43:51,765
So how do you recommend they
go about drying 'em out?

2208
01:43:52,985 --> 01:43:55,475
- Just your typical dehydrator

2209
01:43:55,545 --> 01:43:58,075
that you can buy online or at stores?

2210
01:43:58,335 --> 01:44:01,235
Uh, they can just be a simple little

2211
01:44:02,235 --> 01:44:03,795
electrical heat element in the bottom.

2212
01:44:03,935 --> 01:44:05,915
And then they have the rack trays.

2213
01:44:06,025 --> 01:44:07,715
They can be round or square.

2214
01:44:08,185 --> 01:44:10,875
Sometimes people will just make a mini

2215
01:44:12,335 --> 01:44:16,235
at home de dehydrator by, you know,

2216
01:44:16,595 --> 01:44:20,195
creating a little box with
a fan and room temperature.

2217
01:44:20,195 --> 01:44:23,555
If your house is around 68,
70 degrees with a little fan,

2218
01:44:24,025 --> 01:44:25,795
that can be enough in a little container

2219
01:44:25,795 --> 01:44:27,715
to dry out mushrooms as
long as they're on a screen

2220
01:44:27,735 --> 01:44:30,715
or something that it allows breathability.

2221
01:44:32,105 --> 01:44:34,535
- Right on. I I I've
done both of those. Yeah.

2222
01:44:35,005 --> 01:44:38,455
- Yeah. I I I don't
suggest using the oven much

2223
01:44:38,695 --> 01:44:41,415
'cause ovens have too high
of a low setting to really,

2224
01:44:41,475 --> 01:44:44,055
you know, it tends to kind of get too hot.

2225
01:44:45,045 --> 01:44:47,975
Heat, heat can be damaging to the potency

2226
01:44:48,275 --> 01:44:49,895
of psilocybin. So that's, yeah.

2227
01:44:49,895 --> 01:44:51,575
- We wanna evaporate them, not cook them.

2228
01:44:51,965 --> 01:44:53,095
- Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

2229
01:44:53,875 --> 01:44:56,295
- So, so now that they are dried, um,

2230
01:44:56,355 --> 01:44:58,535
how do you recommend the
storage of these mushrooms?

2231
01:44:58,555 --> 01:45:00,815
And you know, like I know that
storage could be a, you know,

2232
01:45:01,455 --> 01:45:03,095
a third of a show in and of itself, but,

2233
01:45:03,195 --> 01:45:04,575
but considering we're to this part

2234
01:45:04,635 --> 01:45:06,335
and it's just for personal, you know,

2235
01:45:06,435 --> 01:45:07,975
use, how would you store these?

2236
01:45:07,975 --> 01:45:09,015
So they last long list

2237
01:45:10,215 --> 01:45:13,595
- The, there's differing
research out there that says that

2238
01:45:14,425 --> 01:45:18,975
potency is maintained through

2239
01:45:20,345 --> 01:45:21,355
like 50 degrees

2240
01:45:21,935 --> 01:45:26,675
and, you know, limited
humidity at room temperature.

2241
01:45:26,735 --> 01:45:28,035
You're not gonna have any kind

2242
01:45:28,035 --> 01:45:29,515
of degradation in the potency.

2243
01:45:29,935 --> 01:45:32,635
And then there's also kind
of a side that says like,

2244
01:45:32,915 --> 01:45:37,715
freezing fruit bodies could
also be long-term storage.

2245
01:45:37,735 --> 01:45:39,115
But then there's also a little bit

2246
01:45:39,115 --> 01:45:40,275
of information out there saying

2247
01:45:40,275 --> 01:45:42,755
that freezing actually
degrades psilocybin.

2248
01:45:42,815 --> 01:45:45,395
So there's a lot of differing opinions

2249
01:45:45,395 --> 01:45:48,715
and information out there
right now as far as, um,

2250
01:45:49,315 --> 01:45:52,235
storing long-term and
room temperature freezing.

2251
01:45:52,415 --> 01:45:55,755
But I think both I've
had good results in both.

2252
01:45:56,295 --> 01:45:59,635
Uh, at room temperature, if
you're not sealed up completely

2253
01:45:59,975 --> 01:46:02,955
and you were growing
outside, there is chance of

2254
01:46:03,575 --> 01:46:06,075
fly larvae, uh, germinating.

2255
01:46:06,815 --> 01:46:10,115
So freezing can technically
keep that from happening.

2256
01:46:10,295 --> 01:46:13,835
And so your, your mushrooms
would last longer in a dried

2257
01:46:13,935 --> 01:46:18,435
frozen environment rather
than, um, taking a risk with

2258
01:46:19,715 --> 01:46:20,935
fly larvae Yeah.

2259
01:46:21,085 --> 01:46:22,495
Eggs in the future <laugh>. So that

2260
01:46:22,775 --> 01:46:24,375
- I haven't run into that. I hope I don't.

2261
01:46:24,885 --> 01:46:27,615
- Yeah, I mean that's
common in the culinary world

2262
01:46:27,615 --> 01:46:29,615
with morels and portini

2263
01:46:29,615 --> 01:46:34,575
where people will have a
beautiful mason jar of morels

2264
01:46:34,575 --> 01:46:36,415
or portini and they come
back a couple months later

2265
01:46:36,415 --> 01:46:39,255
and it's just powder because
everything's germinated.

2266
01:46:39,635 --> 01:46:42,095
So, uh, freezer will not allow that.

2267
01:46:42,915 --> 01:46:46,655
- So one thing I will add that
I have, I have added to my,

2268
01:46:46,795 --> 01:46:49,845
uh, best practices that I
really like is, um, they,

2269
01:46:49,955 --> 01:46:53,965
they sell these, um, vacuum seal devices

2270
01:46:54,345 --> 01:46:56,605
for large mouth mason jars.

2271
01:46:57,185 --> 01:46:59,885
And so you can, you can put
whatever, you know, cannabis

2272
01:46:59,985 --> 01:47:01,765
or mushrooms into your mason jar

2273
01:47:02,265 --> 01:47:05,045
and then you put the,
the mason jar lid on,

2274
01:47:05,145 --> 01:47:07,045
but then you put this device over the top

2275
01:47:07,045 --> 01:47:08,085
and you push a button

2276
01:47:08,105 --> 01:47:11,725
and it sucks out all of the,
the oxygen from the jar,

2277
01:47:12,065 --> 01:47:15,685
and then it seals the flat
part of the two piece lid

2278
01:47:15,825 --> 01:47:19,885
to the jar because, um, you
know, the, the, the things that

2279
01:47:20,515 --> 01:47:25,365
destroy these mushrooms are,
um, you know, not only, uh,

2280
01:47:25,515 --> 01:47:29,365
heat and, and bright
light, but also oxidation.

2281
01:47:29,745 --> 01:47:32,405
And so if you, if you
yeah, you know, jam your

2282
01:47:33,005 --> 01:47:35,485
mushrooms into a jar and, and then,

2283
01:47:35,505 --> 01:47:37,285
and then remove the oxygen.

2284
01:47:37,825 --> 01:47:41,565
So there's a, there's a small
ratio within the jar, meaning

2285
01:47:41,565 --> 01:47:43,805
that your, your jar is packed,
you don't have a small amount

2286
01:47:43,805 --> 01:47:45,885
of mushrooms to a big jar, and then,

2287
01:47:45,885 --> 01:47:48,125
and then you vacuum
out all of the air, um,

2288
01:47:48,185 --> 01:47:49,405
and then, you know, just throw

2289
01:47:49,405 --> 01:47:50,485
it underneath your bed, you know?

2290
01:47:50,485 --> 01:47:53,005
Yeah. You, you're in a dark
place that's, you know, more

2291
01:47:53,005 --> 01:47:54,085
or less temperature stable

2292
01:47:54,345 --> 01:47:57,765
and now you're in a non
oxygenated environment.

2293
01:47:58,065 --> 01:48:01,125
You should be good until
you're, you next round

2294
01:48:01,145 --> 01:48:02,565
of fruiting the next fall.

2295
01:48:03,245 --> 01:48:04,525
- I like that. That's great.

2296
01:48:04,805 --> 01:48:06,885
I, I didn't mention freeze drying either.

2297
01:48:06,915 --> 01:48:08,085
It's a little more expensive,

2298
01:48:08,105 --> 01:48:09,765
but they do make the desktops

2299
01:48:09,765 --> 01:48:12,405
that are a little more
affordable for the homeowner.

2300
01:48:13,025 --> 01:48:15,325
And freeze drying is pretty amazing too.

2301
01:48:15,445 --> 01:48:18,605
I don't know what the research
is as far as potency levels,

2302
01:48:18,745 --> 01:48:22,445
but the texture and just
what the mushroom looks like

2303
01:48:22,445 --> 01:48:24,325
after it's freeze dried is just amazing.

2304
01:48:24,385 --> 01:48:26,645
It looks like it's fresh
basically. Yeah. It,

2305
01:48:26,705 --> 01:48:29,205
- It is actually really
remarkable <laugh> how,

2306
01:48:29,225 --> 01:48:30,765
how it doesn't, um, you know,

2307
01:48:30,825 --> 01:48:32,485
it doesn't do the shrivel thing, so.

2308
01:48:32,515 --> 01:48:35,205
Yeah. Um, alright Christian, so, so, um,

2309
01:48:35,575 --> 01:48:37,045
we're going into the wrap up here,

2310
01:48:37,145 --> 01:48:41,125
but I wanna give you a chance
to kind of wax philosophical

2311
01:48:41,195 --> 01:48:43,965
because, um, I have heard
you do do that before and I,

2312
01:48:43,965 --> 01:48:45,005
and I have liked it <laugh>.

2313
01:48:45,185 --> 01:48:46,685
Um, and also you're,
you know, you're pretty,

2314
01:48:46,685 --> 01:48:50,045
because you are still very much
in the mixed both, you know,

2315
01:48:50,045 --> 01:48:51,965
at the, you know, with the academic part

2316
01:48:51,985 --> 01:48:54,525
and the science part and
also the entrepreneur part.

2317
01:48:54,905 --> 01:48:57,165
You know, your your, your
thumb is definitely in the

2318
01:48:57,365 --> 01:48:58,445
mushroom pie as it were.

2319
01:48:58,745 --> 01:49:01,845
So, so wrapping up, what future

2320
01:49:02,365 --> 01:49:05,805
research directions do you
find most promising, um,

2321
01:49:05,945 --> 01:49:09,165
for understanding or
utilizing these wood loving

2322
01:49:09,415 --> 01:49:10,565
psilocybin mushrooms?

2323
01:49:10,605 --> 01:49:13,885
I mean, right now we focus
on their, their beauty

2324
01:49:14,225 --> 01:49:15,925
and their ability to heal.

2325
01:49:16,825 --> 01:49:19,605
But you know, like we're just,
we're just at the beginning

2326
01:49:19,665 --> 01:49:23,685
of our relationship, um, with
this mushroom since we're,

2327
01:49:23,695 --> 01:49:27,285
we've started learning the
actual science of it, so, Mm-Hmm.

2328
01:49:27,325 --> 01:49:29,485
<affirmative>. So what excites
you looking into the future

2329
01:49:29,705 --> 01:49:31,685
of wood lovers and our
relationship to them?

2330
01:49:33,055 --> 01:49:34,385
- Yeah, that's a deep question.

2331
01:49:34,725 --> 01:49:37,785
Um, we didn't touch much on wood lover

2332
01:49:37,935 --> 01:49:40,025
paralysis and I think

2333
01:49:40,745 --> 01:49:42,105
- Probably, 'cause I don't
even know what that is.

2334
01:49:42,225 --> 01:49:43,665
I didn't even know to ask you. Yeah.

2335
01:49:43,665 --> 01:49:45,905
So what, so go ahead and
address that if you'd like.

2336
01:49:46,455 --> 01:49:49,005
- Well, that's kind of been
my little mission of late

2337
01:49:49,005 --> 01:49:53,085
because Oregon is banning the use

2338
01:49:53,105 --> 01:49:55,445
of wood lovers for mental

2339
01:49:56,845 --> 01:49:58,665
and, you know, for whatever reason

2340
01:49:59,165 --> 01:50:02,985
and their new legislation for

2341
01:50:03,875 --> 01:50:06,105
legalizing basically everything,

2342
01:50:06,725 --> 01:50:08,985
but they're not going to allow wood lovers

2343
01:50:08,985 --> 01:50:11,985
because of a wood paralysis
that happens in people.

2344
01:50:13,055 --> 01:50:15,145
It's very, um, does, does it happen?

2345
01:50:15,655 --> 01:50:17,185
Yeah, I, I would say it does,

2346
01:50:17,445 --> 01:50:21,605
but it's, it's, I I'm a
little uncertain about

2347
01:50:22,275 --> 01:50:25,605
what it really is, and I
think everyone else kind

2348
01:50:25,605 --> 01:50:27,525
of is there, there's no real

2349
01:50:28,995 --> 01:50:31,405
understanding as of yet.

2350
01:50:31,405 --> 01:50:36,075
There's just kind of,
uh, people's opinions

2351
01:50:36,135 --> 01:50:41,075
and experiences, and some
people just feel like within

2352
01:50:41,295 --> 01:50:44,075
an hour of eating, a lot
of times they're fresh,

2353
01:50:44,245 --> 01:50:45,875
fresh mushrooms, and a lot

2354
01:50:45,875 --> 01:50:47,235
of times they've been in New Zealand

2355
01:50:47,335 --> 01:50:52,235
and Australia with the sub,
uh, which I think is, uh,

2356
01:50:52,255 --> 01:50:54,475
you know, a super potent mushroom.

2357
01:50:54,495 --> 01:50:57,715
And that might be part of
why there is paralysis,

2358
01:50:57,715 --> 01:51:00,675
because, you know, anyone
that's taken a large amount

2359
01:51:00,675 --> 01:51:03,715
of mushrooms can feel paralyzed
throughout their experience,

2360
01:51:04,195 --> 01:51:06,715
<laugh>, whether it's
like this physicalness

2361
01:51:06,855 --> 01:51:10,955
or this, um, in, in your
mind, in your consciousness.

2362
01:51:11,815 --> 01:51:16,375
So it, I'm, I I, I'm interested

2363
01:51:16,475 --> 01:51:20,875
to know more about if
there is a physiological

2364
01:51:22,305 --> 01:51:25,895
paralytic response in people and,

2365
01:51:27,265 --> 01:51:30,445
but more so I, I just think

2366
01:51:31,875 --> 01:51:33,865
psilocybin and psilocin in general

2367
01:51:34,005 --> 01:51:36,735
and all these different precursors

2368
01:51:37,715 --> 01:51:41,695
and prodrugs, that's, that's
my interest in the future.

2369
01:51:41,925 --> 01:51:44,455
I've always been intrigued
with the different varieties of

2370
01:51:45,215 --> 01:51:49,495
philosophies and why
each one has its own kind

2371
01:51:49,495 --> 01:51:52,335
of characteristics as you ingest them.

2372
01:51:53,315 --> 01:51:55,615
Um, ovoids they grow in the spring

2373
01:51:56,475 --> 01:52:00,055
and they have just this nice uplifting,

2374
01:52:00,165 --> 01:52:04,295
energetic lightheartedness to
them, playful almost as if,

2375
01:52:04,715 --> 01:52:08,455
you know, as a spring, like
mushroom would give you, um,

2376
01:52:08,995 --> 01:52:12,735
the Azure essence is just
knock your socks off,

2377
01:52:13,055 --> 01:52:16,175
<laugh> melt, melt your
face off, go, uh, lose your,

2378
01:52:16,885 --> 01:52:19,495
your name and, and who you are and,

2379
01:52:19,595 --> 01:52:21,975
and come back to find
out who you really are.

2380
01:52:22,755 --> 01:52:26,725
You know, there's so much, um,

2381
01:52:26,745 --> 01:52:28,485
within this genus to offer

2382
01:52:28,665 --> 01:52:32,925
and there's, we've delayed
the research for way too long

2383
01:52:33,305 --> 01:52:37,285
and there's so much that
we're doing to our world

2384
01:52:37,425 --> 01:52:40,885
and to ourselves and so much unrest

2385
01:52:41,635 --> 01:52:45,045
that I just, I feel like this is kind

2386
01:52:45,105 --> 01:52:48,905
of the last hope in ways
for us to get together

2387
01:52:49,285 --> 01:52:53,815
and understand why we're
here and who we are

2388
01:52:54,235 --> 01:52:58,025
and how to like group together

2389
01:52:58,405 --> 01:53:01,185
to be like mushrooms, to
work symbiotically, to

2390
01:53:03,365 --> 01:53:06,905
get rid of the things that don't serve us

2391
01:53:07,285 --> 01:53:12,165
and, um, understand the
true meanings of things.

2392
01:53:12,385 --> 01:53:16,235
So, um, yeah, that's right on you.

2393
01:53:16,235 --> 01:53:17,635
You got me going deep there. Yeah.

2394
01:53:17,835 --> 01:53:19,155
- <laugh>. Well, it does. I, I,

2395
01:53:19,155 --> 01:53:20,355
you know, you and I have
been friends for a while.

2396
01:53:20,395 --> 01:53:24,675
I know it doesn't take much.
So <laugh> Well, um, well, I,

2397
01:53:24,755 --> 01:53:29,515
- I mean this molecule does
this like, um, this, this,

2398
01:53:29,665 --> 01:53:33,155
there's, this is a bigger thing,
you know, this, it's huge.

2399
01:53:33,345 --> 01:53:36,075
It's not just a recreational
thing that makes you feel good.

2400
01:53:36,185 --> 01:53:38,715
Like there's, there's a lot more to it.

2401
01:53:38,715 --> 01:53:42,835
And I hope that more and more
people that are scared of it

2402
01:53:43,055 --> 01:53:47,595
or that are tentative,
that, um, they would come

2403
01:53:47,595 --> 01:53:48,755
to the forefront too.

2404
01:53:49,015 --> 01:53:50,035
Um, legislators

2405
01:53:50,255 --> 01:53:53,995
and people that need this,
that can make a difference.

2406
01:53:54,575 --> 01:53:56,595
Um, there, there's nothing to fear.

2407
01:53:57,475 --> 01:53:59,505
- Right on. Yeah. Cool.
Right on. Christian.

2408
01:53:59,505 --> 01:54:02,665
Well, thank you so much for
joining us today on Shaping Fire

2409
01:54:02,885 --> 01:54:04,465
and sharing your expertise

2410
01:54:04,685 --> 01:54:06,785
and, you know, heart,
your good heart with us.

2411
01:54:07,125 --> 01:54:10,545
Um, it's really nice to
talk to somebody who is, um,

2412
01:54:10,805 --> 01:54:12,505
you know, clearly a scientist,

2413
01:54:12,645 --> 01:54:16,905
but also is firmly grounded in
the, you know, the ecological

2414
01:54:17,205 --> 01:54:20,025
and, and heart relationship
with the mushroom as well.

2415
01:54:20,445 --> 01:54:22,105
Um, uh, it, it really makes

2416
01:54:22,105 --> 01:54:25,065
for a different interview
than somebody who is, uh,

2417
01:54:25,205 --> 01:54:28,985
coming at it direct only
as a scientist and, and,

2418
01:54:29,005 --> 01:54:31,745
and your well-rounded
nature with mushrooms, um,

2419
01:54:31,745 --> 01:54:32,785
really came through today.

2420
01:54:32,885 --> 01:54:34,665
So, so thanks so much Christian, and,

2421
01:54:34,665 --> 01:54:36,465
and I appreciate having
you on Shaping Fire.

2422
01:54:37,095 --> 01:54:38,705
- It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

2423
01:54:39,535 --> 01:54:42,385
- Alright, dear listener,
if you would like to, uh,

2424
01:54:43,115 --> 01:54:46,625
learn more from Christian,
there are two ways to do that.

2425
01:54:47,045 --> 01:54:50,065
Um, the best way to keep
up with Christian Kalin is

2426
01:54:50,065 --> 01:54:52,945
to follow his Instagram, um,
which is always interesting.

2427
01:54:53,285 --> 01:54:55,065
Um, you can go about that two ways.

2428
01:54:55,285 --> 01:54:59,265
You can either, um, uh, search Christian,

2429
01:54:59,565 --> 01:55:01,665
do Kalin on Instagram,

2430
01:55:01,805 --> 01:55:05,785
or you can go by his
actual, uh, uh, profile name

2431
01:55:05,785 --> 01:55:09,505
that I'm going to spell for you
here, which is Mike Gnostic,

2432
01:55:09,595 --> 01:55:10,185
which is

2433
01:55:10,785 --> 01:55:15,465
M-Y-C-O-N-O-S-T-I-C-K,

2434
01:55:15,725 --> 01:55:17,425
is how you can find him on Instagram.

2435
01:55:18,165 --> 01:55:21,825
And, um, and if you are
more of a linked in person

2436
01:55:22,165 --> 01:55:24,705
or you have some interesting
science to share with him,

2437
01:55:25,005 --> 01:55:27,265
or, uh, you know, a project
that you're working on

2438
01:55:27,265 --> 01:55:29,865
that you'd like to involve
with him, uh, by all means go,

2439
01:55:29,965 --> 01:55:33,825
uh, go via his LinkedIn also
at, uh, Christian Kalin.

2440
01:55:34,855 --> 01:55:37,155
You can find more episodes
of the Shaping Fire Podcast

2441
01:55:37,415 --> 01:55:39,955
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2442
01:55:40,015 --> 01:55:41,635
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2443
01:55:41,975 --> 01:55:44,205
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2444
01:55:44,205 --> 01:55:45,685
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2445
01:55:46,205 --> 01:55:49,205
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2446
01:55:49,205 --> 01:55:50,605
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2447
01:55:51,145 --> 01:55:53,445
On the Shaping Fire website,
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2448
01:55:53,505 --> 01:55:56,405
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2449
01:55:56,435 --> 01:56:00,245
exclusive videos and giveaways
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2450
01:56:00,245 --> 01:56:02,965
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2451
01:56:03,505 --> 01:56:04,845
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2452
01:56:04,865 --> 01:56:07,245
For all original content
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2453
01:56:07,865 --> 01:56:09,245
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2454
01:56:09,385 --> 01:56:12,205
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2455
01:56:12,205 --> 01:56:14,045
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Fire YouTube channel

2456
01:56:14,065 --> 01:56:16,685
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2457
01:56:17,275 --> 01:56:19,645
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2458
01:56:19,765 --> 01:56:20,965
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2459
01:56:21,415 --> 01:56:24,605
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2460
01:56:24,865 --> 01:56:26,485
Thanks for listening to Shaping Fire.

2461
01:56:26,955 --> 01:56:28,765
I've been your host, Shang Los.