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Now, here are your hosts for the running
around Charlotte podcast,
Tim Rhodes and Dc case.
Welcome to the running around Charlotte Podcast presented
by Nova Health ortho Pe and sports medicine.
Today, we have an incredible guest who em
embark the spirit of perseverance
and the power of the human heart, quite
literally the human heart derek Lin, a man
who ran a hundred and 14 marathons with
his original heart,
received a heart transplant in... 23, and now
dreams of running another marathon with his new
heart. Derek Story is 1 of courage,
determination and the miraculous
intersection of medical science
and the human spirit.
Derek, welcome to the show. How are you
doing today? I appreciate it. I feel good.
Feel good today. She'll go
good, man. That's always
here. That's.
Beer j.
I,
personally have not heard your story. So I'm
I'm like most of the listeners here.
Let's start from the beginning. Can you take
us through the moment you first realized something
was wrong with your heart
despite being such an accomplished athlete.
03/03/2018,
finished a 20 mile run and
you know, dizzy,
slur speech stuff like that, and I brought
myself into the, and
That was it. I didn't realize I was
already in heart failure. I was still racing
and I I did Boss in a couple
years earlier and whatnot, and, you know, getting
slower, you know, getting so, but I thought
with age, Yeah. You know, trade us, you
know all them.
It was it was heart failure, and I
was already at that point.
Just say it was heart function about 23
percent.
What?
I I didn't I didn't notice.
I I mean, I guess I... You know
in hindsight I did. Yeah. But you didn't
realize much...
I didn't know what it was. Yeah. It
just test after test just kept showing.
You know, In Idiot and, you know, the
those first few months were tough, you know?
Because I was I was kind of that
guy, you know I was coaching a big
group and, you know, running and and whatnot,
and then all of a sudden, it seemed
like my...
I lost my identity.
You know, I was I was a runner
and next, you know, I I wasn't. You
know, just as quick as I... You just
run 20 miles, and it's a
I it was 21 that morning. Yeah. Probably
a mirror call that you survived that run.
Well, you know what At, you at end
any point I could have died. You know
what? A a couple months later, I got
a pacemaker def, which...
Honestly, in 20 21 and 20 22, went
off. I died twice
once playing basketball probably probably shouldn't have been
doing that. You on and
fully can. And then, on the treadmill in
20 22 we're I basically died running and
it shouldn't you know, fell off the treadmill
mountain and zap me back to life. So
you know, Tough tough deal. That that 20
20... 20 22 fall was a tough 1.
You know, the treadmill. So. I've been but
I not a hurt too. Yeah Not just
like, not nines 9 staples in the back
of the head, all white.
Yeah. Pretty I don't I don't remember any
of that. You know, I just went out
on the treadmill and, you know, woke up
and a, you know, pool of blood, but...
I have pictures if you wanna a stone.
I put him in the show. Actually, I
do, but I won't share
don't share those pictures. Oh, my. So and
this is 1 of things... It's like I
I... This is our first time meeting, and,
obviously, Have read about your story, and I
was say,
did he not... I mean, are you 1
of those guys? Who's was, like, man, I'm
not going to the doctor. I'm I'm cool.
I'm a runner. I'm not cool. Like, the
funds, but cool, like, I'm good. I don't
need to go to the doctor because I'm
keeping my own health up, or did your
physician your, you know, Gp just miss all
this and all of a sudden, holy crap.
There it is. III
bet I went honestly, I I bet I
went 25 years without.
I I just never had a reason to
go. I just see. I'm a runner. I'm
healthy. I'm running well. You know, those number
of years. Right. I just...
Everything's great. Feel great and running well. So
And I just I just never went In.
And maybe they would have caught something. Maybe
they wouldn't... Know if I would've have probably
had have done a a stress test or
something for them to.
You know, caught something, but
you know, I'm, They... You know, it had
I not gone in that March of 20
18. You're right. I probably would have...
Just chalk up to
getting fat out of shape old, you know,
whatever it was and something would happened. And...
Oh, that derek. He was such a nice
boy. You know, kinda thing for me.
You know? So...
So what what what do they tell you?
They're like, alright. You you got heart failure.
You're gonna put in a
kinda pacemaker
and a def,
and
and,
I would assume at that point. They also
told you dude, you... You're gonna have to
have a heart transplant. So we're gonna put
you on a list
and
see what happens. I mean, that... That's just
really waiting list. Right? It waiting is the
operative word.
So interesting in that because I was so
fit. I wasn't put on the list. List
So the heart to say was at 20
percent or whatever. But my V 2 Max
was still in the forties.
So there's numbers, you know, they have multi
these sets of numbers that have to...
You know, be bad. I guess, before he
can be on a list, and I wasn't
bad enough wasn't sick enough.
I was still getting around fine. You know,
I still living life, you know the way
it wasn't and stuff. And so I wasn't
put on the list until,
March of 20 23.
Wow. So I lived all those years
just watching myself decline,
you know, and not running much, you know
I try to race every now and then,
which... I mean, Had to keep my heart
rate under 01:40 or 01:50. So It's was
hard to you know, hard to raise, but,
you know, it's just hard hard to not
to. You know, it did not race. And,
you know, and once I was put on
the list,
last March, I was placed at at a
level 6, which is the lowest and by
June, I was a 4 and
October, they kept me. And at that point,
I had a heart function of 6. Good
grief.
Yeah. So I don't know how...
And and I gotta be honest. I didn't
feel bad. I mean, I was still
playing basketball. He good. Wow, I was a
shit. I run around the treadmill. But I
was still. I... I still get on the
treadmill and
walk, maybe a little jogging and stuff, just
watching my heart rate. Yeah. But, yeah. They
yeah, they brought me in for just a
routine test on
October seventeenth. Last fall, and they just kept
me, you know, and they I installed some
crazy pump, which kept me in the Icu
until I found a heart. So Yeah. Yeah.
Just a just a crazy story. It's been
a crazy
crazy life and of all the things I
thought that would happen to me.
Would be the last thing. It be the
heart because I took such good care. You
know, I thought of of my body and
stuff, and I just caught a virus
at some point could have been
10:15 years ago, who knows? Yeah. I'm just
8 away and so... I'm... I... I've always
personally
fascinated by transplant stories
because
the sad thing is, someone has to pass
away in order for you
to survive. Right? And so... Correct. Like, do
you do you have a connection to the
the person
that donated the heart and have you met
the family or there's just no. It was
just... That'll be up to them. Yeah. Okay.
So it's it's up to the donor family
too. And and we're... You know, my wife
and our out there on social media. So
if...
They can contact us. Anybody can contact us
at any point, you know, And we do
a lot of talks and stuff like that
about the story and whatnot. Sure.
I man, and I hope they do. We
were at a race. I did A5K.
Yeah. Wanted to call it Run. You know
Gotta just a kind of a a walk
kind of thing a few months. Ago and
we were able was to donate life race.
Yeah. And there was a woman there with...
And we only talked with her She license
donate life, license plates on her car to
go whatever. And then these are my parents.
She introduced her parents whatever. And these are
my
my donor parents.
So she traveled to races with her parents.
And her daughter's parent. Wow. Oh my gosh.
That it's like, the. Like, the coolest thing,
you know, and just... You know, I think
that's just something that
you know, everybody, you know, every recipient wishes
you know, they'd have. But a, you know,
in in reality, I think it's less than
30 percent of
of donors contact, the recipients, you know? So
it's not...
Yeah. IIIA
number that I I thought that number would
be. Would be higher. I I would have
as well if somebody and said what do
you think odds? I would've have said, probably
like 70 because it's like, I would wanna
see here that, you know, carry on like,
I see the good that came from whatever
situation rail. Because I... And I think it
was received either you or your wife,
mentioned in that article
that I read or 1 of them I
read that said,
it's generally somebody young.
Right? That's that's right, donor. And there's Right
generally, you know, not a positive story that
resulted in this donation, but this is a
spin to make it so. And Yeah. I
think that's probably incredible for, you know, somebody
to be able to close that loop. But
now, you... You say you're on...
The other thing that struck me was, and
I believe this... You you quote in the
in the article said,
those first couple of weeks were really ugly.
After.
You know what This funny. You're you know?
So why I had the surgery, it wasn't
so bad. I was in Icu just say
6 days or 7 days or whatever they
moved me to when And when they move
to that, like, I don't know what they
call it, like, a step, like, a step
down room from ice icu. Step down you
unit. I just wanna go home. I just
wanted to... You know? So I pushed hard
and I think I was the hospital for...
I don't, Let's say 11 days or whatever.
Yeah. I should have stay a few more
days, because those was first couple weeks at
the house for judge.
They were all. They were awful. They were
just sitting, you know, sleeping in the chair.
I couldn't walk up and downstairs, and, you
know, they don't they don't sew you anymore.
You know, they don't... Whatever. So it's just
glued together. So she had be really careful
on
how you move and stuff, and it was
it was a tough deal. Yeah. You know,
on that. But day by day, you know,
it's,
walking more steps and, you know, next thing
you know I'm out there walking
5 miles and biking and stuff. So
So, you know, and, you know, now it's
at that point where, like, yesterday, I ran
walked for, you'll say an hour and a
half, and...
I I feel great. You know, and you
don't think about the heart transplant until you
go home and take that shirt off and
you're like, oh my.
Scarred in their scars. Everyone not just here,
but Here and here and, you know, drainage
cars and stuff, so... Oh, man. Wow. So
go... Yeah. Go back to. What story. Just
go back to when you were waiting. What
what was that? Like? What was... Like, did
you... Were you in fear? Were you
confident? Were you... Like, hey, if this is
it, this is it. You know, like, what
what kind of... Everybody handles it differently. I
guess, I'm just curious as to how Right.
How you dealt with it?
You know, I had been told for 6
years, this was the journey. So when it
was time,
it just, you know, didn't bother me at
all. I just I knew this was the
end of
you know, this journey and the start of
another 1. And Even we had
10 days before transfer, we had like a
dry run, You know, where that came in.
You're supposed to have a heart that morning,
didn't happen,
which III could see how some people would
be
devastated,
I don't know. I had been waiting so
long. It was just a...
There's another day. You know, so just, you
know, 6 days later. We got the call
again, and, you know, that's the heart that
stuck. So Yeah. Yeah. So 6 years of
waiting, and this finally happens.
And, like you said, this is the start
of a new story, and
I... I'm just making the leap, you probably
weren't making the speakers round when you were
waiting,
but right,
now that this has happened, and you're on
the on the road,
literally.
Is right to to or to, you know,
hopefully,
you know, back in the in the marathon
scene,
and you're you're talking to other people about
your story about this process,
and I, just gonna make the leap. This
is also about training, you know what?
Consider, you know, donating,
But a hundred percent, you know, it's
I wouldn't be here. And there's so many
people we've met
at at different races donate life races or,
or, you know, Cream City 5 k in
Milwaukee is just a wonderful race for for
Donate life, and there's hundreds and hundreds of
athletes
you know, that our transplant recipient understand it
wouldn't be possible without,
you know, sorry to say that, you know,
somebody's loved 1 had Yeah. Had passed, You
know, so it's you know, we go, you
know, every day, we we think, you know,
just be thankful that.
You know.
Yeah. My my situation is completely different because
I was, I was fit when I went
in, you know, when I was
Icu for me wasn't bad because I could
I could still walk. Had my little pump
with me and I'd, you know, walked the
hallways and stuff. And, you know, I could
work at my little desk where right I
could stand up and work. So it wasn't...
I
for me it wasn't horrible, but, you know,
seeing some of those people that's a tough
deal, tough deal, you know, and,
you know, you know. So... You know, and,
you know, as we talk about, you know,
I after transplant you know right? Because I'm
a runner here have that mindset of,
you know, I'm Derek Lin. You know, I
can and that's at Mantra use. You know
I'm derek at Lin. I can do anything
because I've kinda done a lot. You know,
Since you I. Honestly, and I just thought,
because I was in good shape going in.
You know it was only, you know, 3
months. When and I just thought, I would
come out. I'd recover, and I'd run. And
I'd run I'd run fast, and I bought
out don't wanna
Yeah. No.
This there's no nowhere close.
What it's been. You know, so I picked
up
type 2 diabetes, which is, you know, Med
related, which has gone now, but neuropathy in
the feet, which is super painful when the
boy. That's kinda still there. Like, wear boots
and stuff for it. But
you know, and so the the running piece,
I I honestly thought I'd come out and
just go and run 10 miles, you know,
and just...
But
it hasn't been that way, you know, But
I still have lofty goals,
but
we'll see if,
you know, also
that was a humbling experience. I I will
not block against
goals.
What's that? I'm not gonna bet against you
and your goals. I'll I'll love Yeah. I'll
bet on you, not against you.
Yeah. So, you know, there's... There's certain piece
like we're doing a marathon. We're doing a
monumental
marathon in Indianapolis in November. Yeah. You know,
it's... It'll be slow, but probably can't be
as bad as 20 15 New York, so
which was pretty painful, But
but we'll get that done, And I... There
is... And I
the nearest we can tell there's been
there's been numerous
heart transplant recipients who have run Boston.
But they've all run on a charity slot.
So nobody has qualified Boston
you know, being a heart transplant transplant on
recipient.
I just... There I know. So let me...
Let me shorten that up for both of
our list real quick. So
on your race calendar for 20 24 is...
Yep.
Indy?
Yep. Marathon.
And are you telling me
that you're attempting to qualify for Boston? No.
No. Not at the end. My. Not in
India. But I but I could until September
fifteenth of of next year, I... I'd like
to qualify for 20 26.
Yep to sung somewhere. You know, just
it's good. And who knows Explain Who knows?
Who knows? I mean, it just nasty. Now
You know, what is your what is your
your care team saying about this? And what
is your wife saying about this?
There's there's 2 different. Oh, yeah. I know.
That's why I made make ask question like
that.
Yeah. You know, care team is fine. I
mean, there's
I... You know, I'm I'm free reign right
now. I can kinda do
what whatever I can do, you know, and
it's, you know, meds have been
you know, continue to drop. I've obviously recover
real well.
Get when I'm back to doing a lot
of the stuff. I mean, I can bite
for hours. I can hike for hours. It's
just the running piece, Yeah. You know, with
the neuropathy that that gets to me. Sure.
You know what, and my wife is real
supportive.
She's actually doing indy with us. So we
have a group,
you know, going a 30 or 40 of
us going to Indy. That's sure 1 of
them. Yeah. So... And then...
Where where we decide to run next year?
I don't know. We are doing Key west
half or the big packer challenge. Yeah. That
Key west in January. So
yeah. I
will
that's that's fantastic. Now who is this team
is running with you? Oh, just you know,
over the years, I've had, you know, I
coached for years. So I've just got a,
right, a lot of running friends. Okay. I
mean I... Ran a number of a couple
of them from Charlotte. That are coming to
run, you know, some friends that Have coached
out of out of Charlotte stuff. So
that should be should be on. That is
fantastic. And are you are you are you
working with the coach? Are you
are you fun doing your own thing, how
are how are you in managing this, getting
ready for,
for
November or October and India is this year.
I I do whatever I can every day.
So, you know, there's certain days yesterday went
out and I could handle 2 miles. That's
all I could do.
Day before I was out for 2 hours.
You know, it's just,
you know, probably doing too much there, You
know, Take a little rest day yesterday and
you, back at it today. So
you it's incredible, man. Absolutely incredible sin.
And it's a crazy story. Do you have...
Are there any other
and and I know everybody's journey is different.
Is there anybody else that is,
you know, either, you know,
ahead of you or behind you or, you
know,
And shoulder to shoulder peer that you are
making this journey with, Are you blazing this
trail all by yourself?
You know, they're been at in via Facebook,
You know, there's groups of
you know, cardiac athletes, you know, kind of
thing. And you have met up with a
guy, and I might have got his last
name wrong Dan, Lei,
also heart transplant
recipient.
Ran his first marathon,
you know, 5 years ago, you know, a
couple years after after transplant stuff, and,
in him and I have these parallels where
He's from Ohio and his first marathon was
95 Columbus. That was my first marathon over
3 hours.
We ran it the together way we finished
within, like, 20... We didn't know each other
for Yeah. You know, 30 years later, whatever
put these parallels in his birthday the same
day or blah blah blah blah. And he's
you know, same disease, what have you. But
you know, I'm not sure what he's done
beyond Columbus since then. Yeah since it's transplant,
but, yeah, Just, So other people have done
it. Okay. I... I'm not sure
running fast. And and maybe that's not...
Maybe that's nothing I can do anymore. I
don't know, but I'm... Yeah.
Just
not betting against me. No. No. No. Heck.
No. Not a scientist. I'm gonna find yeah.
Just stop say. I know I I still...
I've always had this desire to race, you
know, back in the day, we would race
40 50 times a years as many race
we could find, and I still have that
fire. Always you know, a chance of me
running 14 35, because I'm guessing those days
are probably done, you know, But
most, you know Yeah. Get older, he just...
You know, you slow down, you go longer.
You know what's this else
be an ultra guy coming You know you
have the ultra... Have the ultra guy shirt
on. You know, 1 there.
Oh, man, you do, bro, you do crazy.
But absolutely. And and I assume that when
you go out now, you that you're not...
Or maybe you are, are you running riding
whatever solo or are you taking people with
you or how does that work? Yeah. Most
mostly lender by myself.
You know, just... I have no problem. You
know, I ride with friends and stuff like
that. But, you know, I wanna work do
a workout. I I wanna do my workout.
You know, what have you. So... But, you
know, this this sport has given me so
much over the years and it's been because
of
partners, you know, work workout partners or whatnot,
and I've had a
you know, like most people just these great
groups whether... You know I lived in Minnesota
for 25 years and these maze and groups,
runners and riders and, you you know, traveling
the races together as, you know, as most
people do. And, you know, And it's... Honestly,
those 6 years were...
I I missed... I still have those friends,
but it just missed that
Saturday morning long runs. And, you know, a
Wednesday night time for, you know, stuff like
that. So, you know, it's for you?
Can't wait to get back. And I and
I love being at there. You know, we,
my wife and I went a little
you know, events management company. So we direct
10 different for races.
You know, and small, you, between 600 and
a thousand people in it. We started that
because it it feels like, home when I'm
there. Just feels... It's like my people you
know, and I'm being it start and finish
fine. That's where That's where I enjoy being.
You know? So so that's where we are.
We've a race, Thursday, and I'm super excited
you just to be, you know, at the...
That's the race Man that is great. Yeah.
And And then after that, so in in
between now and
in Indy,
what does it look like for him?
I'm doing a 50 k in
in August for peak here in in upper
michigan. And so it it's, you know, it's
more about just
making the cutoff, You know, So it'd be
a lot of fast hiking, jogging downhill and
stuff. And,
you know, So I'll make the cutoff and
stuff, but it's a race we signed up
for
right after transplant where I was feeling. Oh,
I'm gonna be just rocking this, You know,
oh gosh.
I'll finish it. Oh, no problem Finish Obviously,
you know and I'll make the cutoff and
stuff, but it's not gonna be a...
You know... I'm not gonna be on the
podium is what I'm hearing. But I have
not be nothing. Podium. Wow
I think the only 60 year old guy
there. I don't know.
He
1A3.
Tim's boy. Yeah Podium at the Tim's point,
not betting against you, man. That is for
sure of chow.
2 1 out of 3. So is your
wife running this 50 k with you?
She's registered. Yeah. I think she's gonna end
up being a a support or crew. Okay.
Right for so like,
Yeah. I know. Yeah. Just... You know, because
I'm so used to back in the day.
We would just sign it for everything. Let
me just... I hey. There's a k this
Saturday in Marathon on Sunday. Let's doing both
affairs how I just had this mentality still,
and I think a lot of athletes that
they get to be my age either
lose that desire to compete, you know, to
toe the line.
I I still have that. You know? And
it's whether it's
A mountain bike race, whether it's an ultra,
mile mile on the track. I can't wait
to do a mile on the track. You
know? I'm just
just love race. And I love you and
I get out there and bumping elbows and
just see
who's gonna win, you know, Interested not afraid
to not afraid to find out So Oh,
my gosh. And you, like, he's said, your
care team is all on board with this
And absolutely. And
I I have high confidence
in all of that. I'm my, I'm like,
oh, my. God I is incredible. Dairy, it's
like, III think like, reading this this story
is not nearly the same as talking like,
now I get it.
After talking now I get it. Now I
get it. Funny. I think athletes
understand. You know, when it's it's nice that
we had this care team now not necessarily
runners Yeah. Completely understood what I want to
do Yeah.
And they they were wonderful. We had the
best care best hospital. I mean it was
just just amazing. You know, we've done a
lot of work with them with with Donate
life and whatnot. And and
yeah. It's pretty cool. And what does that
look like? You know, your... I mean, you
have some sort of commitment or contract or
whatever with donate life where they're like, hey,
man. Can you come out and talk to
folks at these events and you're like, yeah,
Are you show up places and go hey
Ps and by the way.
How does that work?
Yeah. No. They just... When they ask, I
I have yet to turn them down.
You know a, way I spoke at a...
Donate life flag raising about 6 weeks ago.
I spoke at the hospital to a group
of new Icu nurses,
my my...
Experience being in the Icu for a couple
months good and bad and whatnot. And Yeah.
You know, there's... We get calls all the
time, and, you know, there's talks of,
you know, possibly a book, you know, down
the road and stuff, because it's even before
transplant, you know, it was a
it was crazy life. You know, just you
know, running, running kinda dictated life for a
long time, you know, and good and bad.
You know what just this...
You know, do I go to work or
do I do this run? You a bunch
of.
We should have gone to work That's all
Oh, yeah Yeah Know. I have some Hook
run stories and they never end well. Oh
Yeah. It's like.
So
it's like... And then just this this whole
story of
like, I... You, I shouldn't say,
I shouldn't have gotten, you know, part failure.
Yeah. You know, It's just... That I did
and how we handled this journey and whatnot,
and you know, people thought we were the
most positive people over the last 5 years
and we probably were, but they didn't see
us that first
6 months after diagnosis. You know, was
was tough tough time. Yeah. You know, when
I, you know, that identity loss and whatnot.
Yeah. So...
Yeah It's so good now though, and I
was... I think that's what helped me
in Icu or it, you, and, you know,
and transplant what? Not It was just
get this shit done. You on?
Hey hill, man. Get through it. Absolutely. Yeah.
Like you said, the next the next chapter.
Right? Yeah.
Which clearly You don't wanna to be written.
Yeah. I...
And and I'd On... I'd like to think
I'd be able to race again. I really
hope,
you know, and run hard what what what
that means. I don't know. You know, but,
you know, right now, it's it's not today.
You know it's not this weekend, You know.
So... It's part of the journey though. I
mean, you've talked about journey. And it is...
It's part of the journey as the comeback.
But,
man, we really appreciate your time today.
Absolutely sharing your story. I'd I absolutely love
it. I'm very grateful for
for you
being willing to take the time, and and
Let us see you kinda transparent,
and,
absolutely. III really do hope that
there's a day that you get to to
meet
the donors family.
That'd be wonderful. Yeah. So... Yeah. Just... You
know, my wife and I would be.
It it'd be amazing. Yeah. It really would
be. So maybe even more important than the
running piece I think would be Yeah. That
introduction and, you know, even to be able
to
you know, hang on to the chest there
and just here. Yeah. You know, hear that
thing beat and stuff, and, you know, it's
her. Yeah that'd be wonderful be wonderful.
Yeah. Hard to not get emotional with that.
Yeah, man. Sure.
No kidding. Yeah. Derek. Thank you so much.
Absolutely
your progress.
Absolutely. Please. I appreciate it. And maybe next
year you come to Charlotte instead of going
Indianapolis.
Absolutely. Well that's.
If I'm invited.
Come on down. I'm sitting self invited.
Wonderful. Hey, guys. I really appreciate it. Thank
you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Hey.
I gotta ask you.
Yeah. Please. You're from upper peninsula now. Up?
Yep. Well, we have a house in Milwaukee
then a house up in Market, so I
spent my summers. I'm in Market right now,
actually. Okay. I spent
much of my childhood in Marina, Wisconsin. So
nice. I could throw a rock and hit
nominee, Michigan. Yeah for my backyard. So there
was
we lived
over the fence in our backyard where the
train tracks coming down from the upper peninsula
and the ore cars carrying all these little
iron ore pellets, and
they're just, you know, hauling down, hauling down,
and is just, you know, we would go
in in
on the railroad tracks and we would hop
the trains.
Did a ride for a while. That's if
I ever caught my kids doing that, I
don't kill them bring ring. Somebody's in that.
Yeah Like like to people Yeah. And, you
know, and meredith that, we, you know we
we drive 2 Marina for week. You know,
back and forth whatever. And, you know, Mary
had, I don't know last time you were
here, if it's been a number of years,
or since you've been here been a while.
You well, actually, 5 years.
5 years. Okay. Yeah. So it is
it is a just a row pot shops.
It is just pot. It's legal here. It's
legal here in Michigan. So it's just want
in that whole strip where used to be
like Kfc down there with Perkins whenever it
is just 1 right after another just and
their lines of cars at each I like,
what? Yeah. Just... But there's Marina now. So
Mary city. There you go. Welcome. Alright, My
friend.
Hey Appreciate it, guys. Thanks again, Derek. Thanks
you. Thank you. Appreciate it.
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