I'd killed... I'd killed a handful l. Okay.
I used to shoot I used to shoot
both a lot. Okay. I'd I do shoot
everything Okay. Perfect. Cool. Yep. Well, new I
knew my way around a bow, but I
also knew I'm probably the least sneaky personal
lie. So
so...
Stocking deere not a strong suit for me.
I'd I'd bow hunted deer in the past
and then I came to the conclusion that
like, hey, If you wanna You wanna a
hunt big deer, go hunt with a bow.
You wanna kill big deer, Go on with
a rifle.
That's awesome.
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Welcome back to their rock broadcast everyone. It's
Travis. I've been kinda missing an action a
little bit.
Today's guest, I am super excited, D.
I think everybody knows this guy. He probably
needs no introduction.
Dion is the real deal,
a real hunter
that just is getting it done on some
of the, like,
I think some of the hardest tags that
you can hunt and getting it done with
just
super exceptional dear. So Dion,
Welcome to the podcast, and I can't wait
to pick your brain today.
Thanks, man. You're kinda hype me up cute.
No. Do dude... Well, I really, like, I
just love talking you man. You're 1 of
those guys that just has such a good
attitude. And I just... Like, I know talking
to you the work you do and just
the attitude do you have it really to,
like, you just know. I'd know, like, Dion
is gonna be successful. Like, I I just...
I almost come to expect it. Like, it's
just awesome, man. So...
Yeah. So it's just cool. It's cool.
Accomplish.
Yeah. The opposite, though, I've I've been expecting
a bad year for the last few years.
It's been really tough, but feels like,
feel like the stars have aligned for me.
No. Dude you... You're just... You're doing things
right, man and that's why I wanna have
you on, and I think
our listeners can pull stuff. And I mean,
this is what's
interesting to me, man. And the guys I
wanna talk to. I... Like, not to take
anything away from, like, a guy that's killing
good bucks every year on the maybe an
outfit or whatever on the Arizona strip or
some
really sought after hard to get where they're
hunting it with... Dude the guys like,
I just... I don't care about that. So
if the guys I really wanna talk to
and that I really just, like love to
hear their stories and learn from them or
just guys owning run of the mill
over the counter type tags or just tags
that the general public's getting competing with all
these people,
which... I mean, I know some of the
places you want. That's like that. And that
you're just getting it done on these, like,
top 1 percent of deer. And that's what's
so cool to me. And I think it's
so cool that... That can still happen in
today's day and age. You know what I
mean? And like, what separates
somebody that's doing that from,
the guy that's, you know, just been battling
and not getting it done. Like, I... That's
what I'm always interested in, like, what people
are doing different. So Yeah, it's... I don't
know. It's fun, man. What do you think
about that? What do you think that is?
Why is their guys like you? Like, how
do you get that done? What do you
think?
I think there's, like, 2 main,
2 or 3 main factors that go into
it. 1 is just the sheer volume of
time that you're to put into it. And
there's no
there's there's no getting around that. The guys
that are, like, really consistently successful on next
level bucks
universally spend a lot of time doing it.
Yep. And then
outside of that, I think the 2 next
most important things are
honestly,
good problem solving ability being able to kinda
of figure things out. Mh. And and I
don't know if that second place or or
third place, but the the next other 1
would be just relentless optimism
even when you have no reason to be.
So hard to say... It's so hard to
stay engaged and and keep trying when things
are tough if you can't just lie to
yourself and say that. That at any minute.
At any minute, you're gonna see the biggest
fuck ever there's. I mean, there's a lot
of harder days where it's like, man It's
just this it'd be a lot more fun
if I like to golf for play basketball.
You can... Anything else because there's there's
there's way way way way more days, even
for the best guys, there's way more days
that you don't find the big buck than
there are that you do. For sure. And
I dude, I could not agree more on
attitude, Man And, like, as I look just,
you know, thinking about different guys that I
know are, like, super successful guys like you,
they're just are getting it done and, like,
coming up, like, due to the... That's 1
thing they always have in common when I
get the chance to talk. To them. Like,
they really are, like, they're optimistic. They're looking
forward to. Dude even if hunting seasons been
kinda... I don't know. It's been rough, whatever
and I'm talking to a mid season. They
still got like that.
I don't know what it is. It's just...
It's something
burning inside of them that I'm like, I
know they the... They're gonna get it done,
And I think you kinda have to have
that. You know? I... They're just... There has
to be something about that attitude. Like, I
think,
I mean,
it's like those days
when you feel defeated, doesn't it kinda feel
like if you let that slip in that
you almost are kinda defeated,
Yeah. I I can't. Like, I... If honestly,
on some of those days and everybody says
they tough it out and grind it out.
Like, If it's get... I like 3,
yep.
Head in it and stay engaged. And if
it if if at the end of 3
or 4 days, it suck. Like, I Was
like, okay. I'm going home soon and and
next week a new a new thing because,
like, I don't know... You know, it can
be it can be x. Extra tough if
you're just getting kicked in the teeth for
a week or. 10 days or 14 days.
But a lot of what I do is
built around, like, okay. This is this is
my this is my window of... I know
I can stay engaged and work hard and
even if it's horrible, I can I can
tolerate it and it doesn't get me broke
down?
For these, you know, that that window of
of duration, like it. And and I think
I've just I've built a lot around, you
know, Okay. Dude do I worry more about
having a light backpack or creature comforts? Because,
like, what's gonna keep me? What's gonna keep
me engaged and keep me? You know, doing
everything I needed to do to possibly be
successful. And
I I think that's a big big part
of it. It's just figuring out how you
can stay positive and how you can stay
engaged and and keep trying because if you're
not, I mean, it just doesn't happen otherwise.
Yeah. And I agree, man. Like, and I'm
I'm glad to... Like you mentioned the the
4 day thing, like, 3, 4 days. Because
I truly believe, like, when I I noticed,
you know, I go to Colorado and you
go down there, you know, for the entire
season usually, Is usually kinda out
And I noticed even, you know, you get
that 6, 7 days in.
And I mean,
it really there is something. Like, if you've
been having a rough go, And I'm not
saying I give up, but I just don't
think I was the same guy I was
on day 1234.
You know what? There's just something
I And I don't know if it's, like,
the optimism,
you know, you had that, like, maybe it
was a few days. Off or even just
sometimes go into a new place is like,
just a I don't know. There's just something
there.
You just... I don't know. There's just something
different that I think that
internally changes with my attitude
I don't know what it is.
If there is something, but I do agree
that 4 day. I... I'm a big fan
of that.
Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, it's just
if if you're not actively engaged, and I
can't tell you how many times I've gone
hunting with other people. And like, guys that
are in it, they love to do it
and, like, you just see this fatigue start
to come over and it may not it
may not have even been a physical hot,
and it's just, like you see them be
less effective instead of
just, you know, doing all the things they
know they need to do to be effective.
Like, you just see this
this slow compromise
of
Well, maybe I'll I'll sleep in this morning
or maybe I'll do, you know, not not
get there before the sun's up or not
get to the absolute best vantage or not
take advantage of every opportunity available me. Like,
you just see this slow
degradation of their ability to be effective. And
it's, like, it it does does it matter
on on every time. You might be able
to get away with.
Yeah. Over enough hunts in enough days. Like,
that's probably 1 of the things that that
makes the difference.
For sure.
Well, and, you know, when you talked about...
I think Robbie mentioned this in the past
too.
You know, you start getting tired in your
war out, You know? And yeah, maybe you're
not out of bed. Like, in, you know,
or in your glass spot and didn't let
nuts not not even talk about being out
of bed at in time, but like, being
in your glass spot. Like, you know, for
that first, that prime time, right, as it's
getting light and You do see a lot
of guys. You know, I think they just
kinda after a while. There's, like, dragging a
little bit and at all just... I think
it starts compounding on each other, but, yeah,
Yeah. Well, that's part of a why I
love scouting so much because it's it's really
tough on those hunts where you don't have
something found. But I noticed for myself, like,
man, every single trip I can make on
a scouting trip. I'm excited to go and
they're... You know, and you never go scouting
for a week or Yeah. 10 days. So
it's It's always just these these build yourself
up, like, have have fun. You know, it's
gonna be an enjoyable experience. So weather's usually
nice.
Get to go out find stuff, and then
and then once you do have something found,
Like, once I've got a deer in mind,
once I've got a target, like, it's way
easy to hunt for 7 days.
But so true. That that is
so true. That was good advice right there.
Like, it's so true, man. If you have
something,
It's a it's a whole different ballgame when
you were, like, you know something's there and
it helps immensely. Like, got pre season scouting.
I couldn't agree more.
Yeah. But so so, dude, Well, we gotta
get into the story of last year's dear,
like I
so excited.
Dion found a love for archer hunting. I
wanna get into all that too. I don't
know if I love Archer tree I think
he found out how easy it is. We'll
say that.
But no. I'm just super excited. So just
like, our listeners, I know most of them
probably followed. You were on the cover Western
Hunter. So cool, dude. Like, can you kinda
just start off the top and tell me
that story. And I even told you the
last time I talked him like, dude I
hold on on the details I wanna do
this on a podcast because I wanna be
So I I have tried to, like,
I I know some of it, but I
I've tried to unplug a little bit. So
I'm I'm excited
Well, if I remember, I'd had sent you
some pictures of poor.
You did. I was you I was so
excited for you and when you got killed,
bike, and I got that picture. I was
just like our cloud 9 for you, because
I... It was just so cool, man. Like,
yeah.
Man. And just, like, the whole thing's a
whirlwind, like, it's
As you and and everybody listens this podcast
knows. It's been tough. The last 3, 4
years find goodyear. Especially in Central Idaho. I
mean, everywhere, but
but especially in Central Idaho. And I've, you
know... You earn in every book up there,
dude. I... That's what I'm telling you. Like,
I Like give I mean, it's not hard
to get a tag up there. Like, I
mean, you that's, like, you can get tags
up there. You
you are earning these dear. I guarantee you.
Yeah. So it's just... It's been tough. And,
like, by some miracle,
you it's it's funny because like, I'll go
all summer scouting in the best buck I've
seen, you know,
2 2 years ago, 3 years ago now.
The... I scout, I think I made 8
or 9 trips
And the best luck I'd seen all summer
long was about a hundred and 40 inch
year. Mh. And Yeah. And just like, man,
that's... You know, I'm, I guess I'm not
shooting anything this year. Yeah. And that was
kind of the approach I had, and then
you know, went and and killed a decent
buck in Wyoming, and then
Like, man, I've got... I think I got
a day. Like, I can I can go
out? I've got a spot I've been looking
at for a while. You know, peripheral area
to spot where I've I've seen hundred a
a lot of good deer.
And
and and just, like, I think it was,
like, September twentieth or something. I'm in their
glass. And didn't see anything where I was
in and Was kinda like, okay. I need
to get head and home. I told the
wife I'd be home at a certain time,
and it's like, okay. I've I bet I've
got 10 minutes.
Let's let's just
quick scan the area and try and find
somewhere else I might be able to look.
And and I started looking around just looking
with my spotter at distant ridges.
And you know, Was I wasn't even thinking
about trying to spot deer at this point.
It's just like, okay. Let's take advantage of
the opportunity to figure out the next spot
I wanna go look at. Mh.
And
and I'm looking at this hill that's close
to 2 miles away and like, man. I
think that the deer. It's it's 10:00. So,
like, stuff's kinda
Yeah. It's pretty warm September day stuff. Pretty
much bad up by then usually and
like, man, that's that's a deer and I
zoom in on it. Oh, that's a buck,
And then I'm looking around. There's another box,
There's another box. And then there's another 1
Say, oh man. That's a really good book.
You know, 2 miles away. A little hard
to judge. Just a little hazy.
And and I start looking everything over. But,
no, man. That's right right above where my
thoughts part.
Serious.
Yeah.
So so Like okay, I'm gonna go that
direction anyways. So I... I start making my
way back and I get, I I cut
a little little better than half the distance,
and I I was able to turn that
turn that gear back up again, it's holy
cow. So at this point, you're about a
mile, something like that.
Yeah. Well, I'm I'm a mile from the
hill and and to the trucks, like, literally
right under it. So it's like, the whole
thing just silly. It's a place that had
absolutely never looked otherwise.
And and I'm looking at this box. It's
Holy cow. He's got he's got a big
frame,
you know, 21 inch g two's is what
it ended up being. So it's just, like,
big frame, week 4, didn't score huge.
But, like, just, you know, total total locked
into that year. And same thing the year
before Was just like, holy cow. I just
got absolutely lucky,
didn't turn anything up and then got got
super lucky right at the last minute finding
something. Well, that's awesome, man. He's just grinding
it out and getting it done. Yeah gets
really cool.
But I'd had a few years in a
row like that. It's was like, man. I
really need to just... I need to I
need to shuffle the deck and I need
to go somewhere new. So
you know, for last year, it's like, totally
new unit, totally new area,
and I Like I look things over. And
I I'm... I'm not a big e scouting
fan. I mean, you you can learn a
lot from it, but it it doesn't necessarily
mean there's gonna be deer there. Even if
the spot is the best looking spot you've
ever seen.
You know, there's just places that don't seem
to have deer anymore even even if they're
perfect half. Agree, man. Me to I'm right
there with you. I... Yep. That's exactly how
I feel about it too. So I had
a Had a handful of places picked out,
and,
gosh. I think it was...
It... Might have been first week or so
a July before the snow melt it off
enough to get in there. U. And and
I get in there, you know, just looking
around not necessarily looking for specific animals but
looking just generalized looking at at country and
seeing if there's sign.
And
the spot I thought looks looks phenomenal. Definitely
had everything it needed to have in a
lot of gear signs. So
it's pretty pretty optimistic. And then,
it's actually Scout, a got a really good
buddy of mine was was playing on Hunting
with me this year,
and
I found this spot and had a advantage
picked out, and he's actually the first 1
to put eyes on that book. But
you know, we we send him in there,
and he he bill sits where he's telling
him sit and turned up that buck and
it's like, holy cow. We we really got
something here he and how we're talking a
bunch. It's like, man, this is
This is... You know, I I didn't get
eyes on it myself, but,
looking at what he had. He didn't have
the greatest pictures of it Like, that's definitely
significant deer. So made it back in there.
I made it back in there I think,
like, 4 days later. I took a day
off of work. Like I gotta go look
at that tears. So
I get I get back in there and
and sure enough, I get him get him
in the big 95. He's a mile away,
and it's like, holy cow. Skyline. It's just
like, I got it... I filmed it when
I when I very first found him I
filmed that and he's
and just incredible. Like, holy cow this is
a huge deer.
And
you know, I've had I've had really good
luck for the last bunch of years of
fine gear and then keeping on them till
October.
And I was like, okay. Well, you know,
I I don't wanna I haven't I've never
killed a deer with a bow before. So
like I wasn't even a thought in my
mind. And dion... Let me interrupted you. You...
What what what time of year... So what
when was this? This was early July. Right?
I think it was a week after I
made my first trip in there. So it,
like July twentieth. Okay. So you're about mid
July this time you're film. Yep. Okay. Alright.
I just Yeah. And then I think when
I... When I went in there with, like,
maybe 4 days later so 20 fourth 20
fifth something like that. Cool.
And
Yeah. So, you know, just phenomenal buck, and
it's, like, okay. Well, not not even a
thought in my mind to Bo on him
at this time. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna
just I'm gonna watch this here so much
that there's, you know, no doubt. I know
what he does where he lives, how he
operates, and then come October when he tightens
everything up and gets harder to find. It's
like, it won't even matter. Because I'll just
have, you know, I'll spend 10 or 15
days watching the deer. Was kinda my thought.
And at this point, was he pretty ba
up? Like, in middle of July, like, did
did... Was it kinda hard to tell, like,
kinda how he was gonna finish up where
his points kinda ball up
he looked pretty close to finished Okay. Like,
he I... He was ball up, but it
didn't look like they were... Get it go.
Yeah know. He looked like he was 95
percent away there. Cool. And,
yeah. So it's like, he he he looked
like he drove a little bit. I honestly
figured... I thought he was a lot smaller
when I first found him, I just didn't
it didn't register in my brain how much
mass he had. Yeah. Yeah. And
yeah. I thought he was low 1 nineties
at first.
But, yeah, Watched him
watched him quite a bit sent some pictures
to just a small handful of people.
You, Yep. Robbie, my buddy gets c. Yeah.
And then I don't know if you know
Henry Ferguson I. Yeah. Yeah first too. Yep.
So.
Yeah. That was pretty much it. That was
like, that was the people that knew about
this year other than, you know, a couple
a couple other the really close buddies. And
And, yeah. So, like, I had I had
James and Henry just badger me about, oh,
man. You need a bow on him. You
need a bow on him. And it like,
not even a
consideration.
For me,
to try to think about Bo on it.
So deal and Yeah, You gotta talk about...
Have you up to this point
bla, you've never bow on it. Is that...
Or you have? Did... Had you bow hunted
not really? Is if fire right?
I'd killed... I'd killed a handful l. Okay.
I used to shoot I used to shoot
both a lot. Okay. I'd I'd do shoot
everything Okay. Perfect. Cool. Yep. Well, new I
knew my way around a bow, but I
also knew I'm probably the least sneaky personal
lie. So
so
stocking deere not a strong suit for me.
I'd I'd bow hunted deer in the past,
and then I came to the conclusion that
like, hey, If you wanna You wanna hunt
big deer, go hunt with a bow, she
wanna kill big deer, Go home with a
rifle.
Anyway.
That's awesome.
So
yeah. It was getting to be, like, mid
August,
felt really good about, like,
understanding the buck, knowing 1 know how how
he works. And
and dan I'm sorry, I'm gonna keep interrupting
any other questions. But did you feel like
he was pretty secured? Like, do you feel
like there was gonna be...
Pressure in there. Like, how did you feel
about, like, security wise and him sit until
October? Maybe you're gonna get to that, but
Man, I felt like this buck had... I
mean, it it was a pretty visible spot
honestly it Okay.
But
Man, I... Every big book I've ever hunted
is so
faithful
to their area. Mh. It it... Like, people
talk about bucks disappearing.
And, man, I think, at at least in
Mountainous terrain, where where deer don't migrate out
till late October. I just don't believe it.
I I don't... I've never seen it. I
don't believe it. I think
I think the place where a buck lives,
is part of its tech. Like, it's part
of its spot.
Yes.
Playbook for survival, and especially if they get
older, Like, if you've got AA5678
year old buck, it's been its whole life
surviving in that spot. Yep. So, like, to...
If if something bad happens
or they get pressure something weird happens. Like,
it's number 1234
and 5. Plan for survival
incorporates that area. Yes. Like, that's how it
stayed alive at life. Yes. At least all
the bucks I've hunted
And
I don't think that they're quick to leave
that. Mh.
I agree.
So my thought was, like, okay I just
really know everything this buck does,
when it gets later in the year and
he sheds Velvet, and he tightens up his
program.
If Like, I'm gonna know what this deal
likes to do anyways. Yep.
So
that was my thought. I then to get
older of Robbie and start talking with him
and and I honestly feel like Robbie is
probably 1 of the best ear hunters alive,
and he'll he'll do anything with anything if
if it's his best...
Chance at killing a big buck. So, like,
when when Ravi says something to me it
carries a lot more weight than almost anybody.
Mh.
And he all... I mean, I might be
mis remembering how it came across, but it
felt like he all, but called me an
idiot for not even thinking about bo hunting
this year.
Yeah. So...
Yeah. I like believe
then I find myself. I think it was
August. Sixteenth. I think I talked to him
on the fourteenth or fifteenth.
And then August sixteenth, I found myself a
bow.
And it's like, okay. I gotta... You know,
I even made bracelets years ago that say,
it was a joke. Yeah. What would all
be didn't do. What would Robbie do. Yeah.
So it's like
Robbie has spoken.
So that's all. You know. Do what Robbie
would do and it's like, okay. Well, I've
better I better get this figured out. So
I get a bow, August sixteenth, and then
it's, like, just mad rush shooting 2 or
3 times a day.
Every day. Yeah. Leaves opens in 14 days.
Yeah. I leaned on James Yet. It's pretty
hard. Just like, tell me what to buy.
U. So You know, he got he got
me set up, and
and, man, it was it was a whirlwind,
like, just just getting everything ready, and then,
and season showed up, and even even that
was nuts. Like, the day I left, it
was, you know, get home, I work worked
04:10. So it's like I get home, Mow
lawns, spray weed. Yeah. You know, make make
dinner for the family. Do all those dads
duties. Yeah. All the dad duties this is
day before season.
And
and it's like, okay. I got I gotta
a mountain the things I gotta do,
and before I can even leave,
and
you know, take off... I took off at,
like, 09:00 at night,
and
you know, get up there expecting to get
in, sometime a little bit after midnight
first went through that day. Oh, yeah. Hold
burn.
I ended up cutting out. I wanna say
it was like 70 trees. I had to
cut out of the road to get in.
Damn. Oh, it was it was 03:00 in
the morning. I think it was 02:30 maybe
03:00 in the morning before I got into
camp. Now.
And but I was totally committed, like, yeah.
Free and it probably
Yeah. I probably should've have mentioned it earlier,
but I I learned my lesson in the
past
about about being all in on a deer,
I had a I had a handful of
pretty good out of state tags.
And and once I had this buck found,
it's like, man, I'm not doing anything this
year but killed that deer. So I actually
turned in... I returned some pretty good draw
tags
before season even started because it's, like, I
don't even wanna have the temptation to think
about doing any else because every every second
of vacation, every window my wife will get
me to leave, like, every everything I have
is going towards this year. Dude that's some
good advice right there at all the listeners.
Like,
I mean, that's a hard thing to do.
I I I've struggled with it getting too
many tags and
dude you didn't focus
and dude that was smart, man. That was
so smart.
Yeah.
So, yeah. Like, opening night, I'm just... I'm
a mess. I'm super tired. Been a long
week,
and then, set the alarm for 05:00 in
the morning so I can can get over
to my vantage.
And
I've seen this dear pretty much every time
I've gone to look for him. He was
he was honest and pretty easy to find.
And
yeah. Opening morning. I didn't see him though.
I, I didn't
I didn't see him I didn't see him
most of the day, and I ended up
making a big move and changing advantages and
running into another hunter,
and it's actually a guy I knew.
There's a whole. Yeah. Funny story, but I
actually had a face mask on when he
walked up to me. And I kinda tried
to change my voice. Because I knew it's
I don't really have.
Don't really have anything else. So it's, like,
here I am sitting with with Ml peers
because on a tripod gloss at a basin,
and I'm I'm telling him a mel hunting.
So
And if he knows you he knows better
than that.
Yeah. It was a whole it was a
whole thing. He he's a super good, guy.
We didn't know each other's super well, but
I knew I knew who he was, and
he definitely wouldn't known who I was if
I didn't have a face mask on, but...
I Yeah. I actually ended up not finding
that book till right at last light that
night, opening day,
and
it didn't seem like like a great off...
Opportunity. And at this point, I wasn't sure
he knew about that deer, and it's like
I still wanted to play everything conservative. Like,
in the back of my mind, it was
still, like. I'll I'll I'll play around with
this though thing, but I'm I'm I'm probably
gonna kill him with a rifle. Okay. I'm
with you.
And would had he move far? Like, from,
Mean... So you just kinda changed your vantage
point? He just was just in a spot
maybe.
Yep.
Backside of the same hill. Okay. And
yeah. So, like, everything's good. I'm watching the
buck. It's it's getting close to the dark,
And I'm getting ready to pack stuff up.
I've been just video in the buck
through the spotter.
And I bumped my spotting scope with my
phone on it still.
And
and I can see this guy skyline above
the bush.
Oh, it's like, oh,
this is is bad news.
And like, he's got his bow out and
he's seeking in on it. It's like, wow,
I guess that takes all the
oh away. I didn't know this question out
of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I... Well, he
definitely knows about the buck, and he's definitely
about to shoot it. So
you know, And I just... It's like, well,
I'm all I can do is say here.
I sat there and and I got everything
set back up, and I just filmed him.
I filmed him stocking in on it, and
then I filmed him. So The first time
he shot at it, and I filmed him
the second time he shot at it, and
it was getting, like, it was getting dark.
Like, right at the end of what I
could... I mean, it's totally legal shooting hours
still that it was getting... Was the fuck
out of the or was he in his
bed still? What was he doing? He was
bed. Okay. You that Okay. And he stopped
in on him. And like I said he
shot at him twice. It it looked like
the deer was...
Okay, but it's, like, the the second shots.
I, got. He he might have hit it.
Arrows don't hit him like, bullets Yeah. So
it's like,
Man, I don't know. And then I filmed
him, I... You know, when the buck got
up and ran, I had him for, like,
80 yards running, which is, like, if it
had been if it had been another 40
yards farther I'd have been more confident, But,
like, they could run 80 yards really strong
with a good shot.
So I was just wreck. Like, absolutely just
a complete in total basket case rack, that
whole night thinking, like, I don't know if
you shot him. I didn't...
Like,
a big part of me wanted to hike
up there to where he was and looks
replied. Yeah. But big man. I got I
gotta be respectful because, like, as much as
I want this year. I know I know
this guy. He's scouts all summer. He's he's
super good, dude. He's a great honor. Yeah.
Like, I know this guy... I know this
guy wants it just in fat as me
and I'm not gonna do anything you screw
them up. Yeah. Especially if that buck wounded,
especially if that buck wounded just outside of
where I could see him. It's you know,
running. It's like, I'm not I'm not gonna
actively do anything to screw up somebody else's
hot. Yeah. For sure. So,
It's like, I just... I I went back
to camp and didn't sleep at all.
And then got up at 5 05:00 the
next morning and and went back into my
into my glass spot.
And,
man, I was so nervous. In that next
morning,
he took me don't know. Maybe a half
hour, 45 minutes after sun up to find
the buck and it's sure enough, like I
was able to find him. I Right? Where
I've been watching him all summer. So I
still shot twice and didn't didn't leave. Yeah.
That was a good feeling I bet.
It was it was a tremendous feeling
until it registered that, oh, man, this book
just skyline himself.
Anybody who's looking for this year probably just
saw them. Got gotcha. So now I've got
this in the back of my mind. It's
like,
oh, You know, Like, and and after the
last night, watching him shoot at it, like,
oh, no, now I have to try.
Because my thought was, like, if nobody else
is hunting this year, Like, do a slam
setup,
I'll try it. But
at no point in in any... Like, lead
up to this was I like, oh, man.
I'm gonna go hard on it with the
bow. It's like, I'll I'll try with the
bow. I'll be there. Yep. And put a
real effort into it, but I'm not gonna
push anything.
Well, as soon as I saw him shoot
at the buck, it's like, well, man, now
I really, really got a try. Mh. And,
So was like, I see the buck skyline
himself. He's in a basin and I've watched
him in 3 or 4 times.
And
It's like, I got I gotta I gotta
get up there. Like, I gotta get in
position. I'm he used 2 or 3 different
beds.
That were all within, like, 50 yards of
each other. So it's like, man,
I've bet money that he's gonna bed in
1 of those beds again
Yep. So I'm gonna get up there and
get in a semi conservative position, and then
when the wind gets right, I'll just start
stocking in, like he's in 1 of those
beds.
And
so do you at this point, you move,
he's up feeding
kind of heading towards at those beds. Right?
Yep. Okay. Yep.
So
that was that was the game plan. Like,
get in get in position, get the wind
right, and then...
Just pretend. I no worries at. Gotcha.
And
when I did, and everything felt really good,
like I'm like, man he's if he's there.
Like, I was really sneaky getting in.
Everything felt pretty good.
And then I get right to the edge
of where I think I'm gonna be able
to see where this buck is. If like,
maybe a hundred yards out of of where
I think he should be.
And
and then,
I hear him blow out. He's 50 yards
away blown behind me.
And
then I really got, like, oh, man. This
is... This is not good. Like, this is
this is a problem. And
the bucks running off, and I've just got
every every bad negative emotion and thought going
through my mind.
Like, I... Yeah. I just ruined it. Like,
you know,
I'm I'm as confident as anybody, the big
deer don't leave through this fuck got shot
at yesterday. Mh.
And then he winded me, saw me, and
I blew him out from 50 yards today,
Like... But man, that's gonna be a law
for him to tolerate for sure.
And
and it's just like, well, man. I I
got I got, like, I got no other
play. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna stay up
here
and
stay in position
and
hope that this buck turns back up in
a in a location, I can see him
from up here. And then if it does
happen,
I can... I'll I'll be in a good
spot to take advantage of it. Because
in in the back of my mind, all
I can think about it is was like,
I gotta I gotta head home tonight.
So I can be home to watch my
kid the next day. I gotta take my
daughter's at school and then I gotta watch
my son,
the next day. So it's like, I'm not
even gonna be able to be here on
the third third day of season. So it's
like, I've got to try to figure something
out today. Mh.
And
I stayed up till
way after dark because it's like, I I
didn't see him, and then my thought was,
okay. Well, this year already been pressured a
lot.
I've bumped into big deer in the middle
of the night before just with a head
lamp. Mh. And they call it really well.
So it's like, if I if I have
to bump this year again, leaving here, it's
gonna be an hour or 2 after dark.
Yep. Is what my thought was, because that's
the least damaging way I can I can
screw something up again?
So and I didn't realize that was actually...
That that did me a huge huge favor.
So I go home, watch my kid. My
kids the next day,
and then, my buddy ward was actually able
to to get out and come and, like,
spot for me help me. The following day.
So it's like, okay. Well, just hope and
pray and fingers and toes and everything crossed
and, like, just... Yeah. Just hope, just hope
that this year is still alive.
When I get back in there.
And
and that that next morning the fourth day
of season
you, I got I got my buddy word
there, and I'm... You know, I'm set up
on the main advantage. She's got a different
vantage.
And it's like, okay. Just just just help
so that next morning sure enough,
45 minutes, maybe hour after sun up, I
find the buck,
2 or 300 yards away from where I'd
bumped him.
He's right. Yeah
right there. And he's in he's in the
furthest point
that I've seen him in all summer, basically,
in in his core area, he's he's kinda
at the edge of it, which is, like,
the...
What I... What I determined to be, like,
the most secure spot Okay. He's got this
shale slide that he would like to bed
in, and he's he's on the side of
that, basically. Gotcha the giant shale slide face
of a mountain.
And there's... He's got a bed right in
the middle it. They're, like, a handful of
dead trees, and he would bed under those
dead trees, but it's, you know, it's complete
shale slides. So any... Any direction around it
him. There's He's hair and some. There's nothing
Yep.
There's nothing sneaking up on him.
So so I...
I sent a message from my buddy ward.
He comes over and gets meets up with
me. We talk over a plan.
And it's like, well, this block still up
and feeding. I'm gonna get up above him,
I'm gonna get, you know, 5, 600 yards
out. I should be able to see him
from from my approach, and then let's just
figure out where it beds.
And
sure enough that buck went and embedded straight
in the middle of that shell slide.
Where he thought he would.
Right where I thought he would. And it
was actually a little bit higher. He had
a handful of beds in that shale light,
but it was a little bit higher,
looking it over, you know, measuring everything on
On x and like, man, I think if
I can climb up that rock spire that's
above him,
I think I'd be 60 yards away from
them. Mh.
And
Like, okay. Well, that's, you know, that's that's...
The play. I, you know, I I can't
I can't be a passenger in the same
anymore. Gotta I gotta get after it, and
I gotta
at this point, have you... As either of
you guys
the like, any sign of the other guy?
Yeah. We we kept seeing him. Okay. So
you're he's still in the area. K.
Yeah.
So I I get... You know, it's really
easy. I just get on the backside of
the mountain and I can I can cruise
No problem with just? Sneaking in there the
approach, and it's it's like solid rock, getting
over to that raw spire, and then it
starts to get loose when I got when
I got to the edge of it, but
Like, my thinking was okay. This all summer
along this buck would pretty consistently bed for
close to 2 hours. Like, watch them from
first bed to second bed, like, pretty consistently.
He'd stand in 1 spot for 2 hours.
So it's like, okay. I don't wanna be
above them for any longer than they have
to be. Yep. So
I waited an hour, and, like, I'll wait
an hour, then I'll stock in. I bet
that takes 15 minutes.
Ish,
and then it should be, you know, because
I've seen in bed for a hour and
a half. It's like, I don't wanna be
any later than that because then I... Then
I'd missed the window. So Yeah. And you
were... And what you were thinking is you
were wanting to get there
as that bucks getting up to change beds
you're in position, and you didn't wanna be
there earlier just to maybe
risk wind or something else yeah sitting on
top of him. I like it. Yep. I
didn't didn't wanna wait for the wind to
swirl. Yep. I didn't wanna have the wind
swirl and have me be in danger clothes.
Yep. So like it. Let's doesn't
minimize exposure to failure. Yeah. Just...
Stack the deck.
Will, I get up there, and I've been
there for, about an hour, and it's like,
man this book's not moving at all. Like,
you can normally tell, like, they'll wiggle around.
They'll start to... You know, they they that
you can tell when they're uncomfortable and they're
about to get up.
And
and this block was pretty consistent. Like, I've
got hours of video of him over the
summer, and it's like, he was pretty reliable
about he's gonna give me an indication when
he's about to get up.
So I'm sitting there thinking like, okay. Well,
what else can I do? Like, is there
is there anything I could physically possibly do
to give myself a better chance. Mind you,
like, I got up there, and it actually
ended up being 20 yards farther than what.
I thought it was gonna be...
38
0 82.
82 yards. So downhill are you, like, pretty
stood, like, you gotta, like, get, like straight
violent downhill?
So the the shoot 2 distance ended up
being 68.
Oh, well, that's a lot. Dude yeah. Okay.
Yep. So, which... It's convenient because I'd only
sided my bow and, like, I'd I'd I
had a black gold a scent slider,
and I had, my tape was money out
to 70. Like I shot.
The day the day before season started,
I've got a cousin who helps me a
ton with with archer. He's he's actually been
a competitive archer since the early nineties.
Now, my cousin, Dave Go to India, And
like, I was at his house the day
before because he's he's, like, he's Yoda for
me when it comes to 3. And I
shot, I I put 3 arrows in, like,
a 2 inch group at 70.
And the day the day before season, it's
like, man. I feel I feel really good
about this. Yeah. I feel really really good.
And I'm pretty good at staying composed when
it comes to shooting animals. I can I
can kinda remove myself from it and and
perform close to as good as I can
on target? Nice. Oh, you know, I'm I'm
I'm at 82 yards, but my shoot two's
high 6 seasons Like I I think I
can I think I can make this? But
let's just make everything as good as I
can. So,
you know, I'm sitting there above him.
And like, okay. Well he's he's giving me
the time, so I actually crawled back out
of the spot, and I went and picked
up rocks. I mean, I'm standing on a
jagged rock spire.
And
it's just like, not a great footing. And
and everything was uneven. So Actually, I climbed
out, and I grabbed rocks. Like strategically that
I could place down to have a flat
solid platform to stand on?
Really? That's cool. That was smart. Yeah. It's
You. So I I made... Because, I mean,
otherwise, I'm standing kind of all my tip
toes of wedge in my feet between rocks.
U. So, like, I'm I made myself a
really nice. Really nice standing platform, and that
took that took me a while, and then
I'm up there and it's like, well, it's
pretty windy. I I suppose I had to
just take my quiver off my boss. I
took I took the quiver off
and so I, lay out my arrows, So
Had all my arrows laid out, like, in
case they needed thinking. Could you stuff needed
to get Western, Yeah. And then,
I don't know, I'm standing there above them,
and it's staying, like,
close to 3 hours at this point since
the Buck originally bad.
Man. This is... He's really settled in.
So It's like, well, why don't I just...
Why don't I just draw on Aim At
and and just practice drawing and naming adam
it. He's he's bed at dead away. The
other buck he was with that a dead
away, the wind steady, but not hard. So
so I drew and aimed at him, like,
5 or 6 times. And just every time
I drew my bow, I got a little
bit more settled. U. And I was just...
I I talk myself through the shop process.
Every time I draw just, like, focus on
the grip.
Level, anchor,
you know, folks on the pan and then
the spot you wanna hit. And he's was
like, I talk... I had Had a mantra
that I had built up. Yeah. And I'm
I'm I'm just coaching myself through and every
time I drew on him is just like,
that that last time I drew on them
before I shot. It's like, this year is
so dead. There's not a doubt in my
mind. You had that when stands up. I
knew it. And
and I just... I felt it, like, I
really, really believed it.
And when he when he did finally stand
up, it it kinda rattled me because he
just instantly looked up at me. He didn't
hear me or anything. He just... I think
he'd been facing the other way, and I
seen a lot of times when big bucks
get up, but instantly just look the other
way to see what... What's the direction they're
wanting to go.
But, this buck had a habit of, like,
walking straight out, like, you'd stand up and
a lot of times they'll shape their legs
and, like, stretch out a little bit. This
bucket get up and just start walking.
So as soon as I as soon as
I saw him starting to get up, I
just instantly drew my bow,
and
and I had the pin on him and
he's looking up at me and it's like,
man, I I think I just gotta go
for. He's he's not... I don't think he's
aware of me at this point. Yeah. But
he's looking up. So it's like, okay. I
I think everything felt perfect. The Pin was
just on him. As soon as as soon
as he was up, upright, the pin was
just where it needed to be, and I...
And without even thinking about it, the bow
went off, and and I'm watching here I'm
like that felt perfect.
He ended up taking a step
and it hit him back. But I mean,
height was perfect. And, like, it it sounded
like somebody hit a watermelon with a baseball
bat when yeah. God had hit him. Yep.
It was it, like, oh, man. And I
could see instantly. He was sick.
What does he do when you hit? Does
he take off? Is he running?
Stand there? He... When I hit him, he
ran
20, maybe 30 yards, and, like, you could
just tell he was ill. Gotcha. Like, 6
Is it still in sight.
You're reloading arrows probably.
Yep. And and I got another arrow knocked
and I'm getting ready to shoot again and
he just starts walking slowly off the shale.
And he was pretty quickly, like, in a
position where I couldn't really shoot him again.
I gotcha you.
But he stopped at, like, a hundred and
40 yards out and, like, he he was
he was sick sick. I hit him... I
didn't him back. I mean, I, you know,
be honest with that I hit him in
item in the guts. Is was probably
4 inches behind lungs where the the arrow
went in, and
Yeah. So Mean, I'm not I'm not the
proudest of that. Yeah. Joe what happens. He's
he stepped out of my... You know, he
he steve took a step. Yeah. And,
yeah. So it's, like, I'm. Them Like, man.
I think this deere gonna... I think the
deer is gonna make a bed and die.
So
I climbed back out of my shooting spot
and I
messaged my buddy and he's like, man, I
watched everything. He's sick. He's bed down, like,
it looks good. I'm okay. Just gonna sit
up here and wait, and I gave him...
I gave him by an hour, and I
messaged from my buddy again, and
and he's, like, he he went another hundred
yards straight down the hill, and he's bed
having a hard I'm keeping his head up.
And he's got eyes on him, the whole
theme. Yeah. Yep. You can't see him at
this point?
No. He can see everything. He's across a
canyon 1400 yards away. Cool. And, and about
the hour and a half mark, like, the
deer was still ba in his head up,
and it's like, man, I need to do...
I need to do something. Like, If I
bump this year, I think he's probably gonna
run and just die. U. But I think
I can I think I can get in
on them? I mean, I'm sure you remember
last year how wet everything wasn't yeah like
it rained. Through single day. I swear did.
Yeah. Yes. So I mean, the... There's that
1 plant. Think he's called Mules here, But,
like, everybody probably knows it because it you
know, it's it's it's a big leafy plant
and in by September. Yeah. It's the 1
that you get, like, 4 feet away from
it. It makes loudest noise on the earth.
Yeah.
Yes. And those those were still green.
Yeah. They were they were...
All of the sticks were damp, like the
ground the the dirt had, like, moist cake
consistently. Consistently. Like, you couldn't make noise walking
unless you tried to. Such a une ear.
Yeah. And I'm like, man, I think I
can sneak in on that book again. I'll
just get on the blood trail, and I'll
follow it down the hill. Because there's so
much down to timber that, like, if I
just stay
behind down timber
and poke my head up and just barely
glance, like, I'll follow the blood trail right
to him. Mh. And
I followed the blood trail, maybe 200 yards
down the hill, and I found his little
buddy, and then I I peaked up a
little higher and I used staring straight at
me. So I duck down.
So it's his buddy with him. Still his
buddy hanging with him. Yep. Okay. Yep. His
buddy was still right with him and like
blood trail, like, good blood... Like, what were
you seeing it? Like, using quite? Was?
He was bleeding. Okay. Yeah. It it wasn't
it wasn't subtle. I had.
I hit him with a sever... I hit
him with a sever 1 and 3 quarter.
Nice. And
yeah. So III
had to creep a little bit farther to
get to where I could get a solid
place to stand up and knocked another arrow,
talk to myself through my shop mantra again.
I arranged the tree that was right behind
him. And I stood up and just let
him have it. He
he went, like 5 guards and fell off
of a cliff. Oh, man. All bet that
was just
Oh,
yeah.
So cool. Dude.
Well, was... It was loud. Like, he fell
probably 60 feet. Re oh that like, oh,
I didn't know, like, a, 60 foot. Oh,
wow. That... Yeah.
My buddy is 1400 yards away, herd him
land at the bottom.
Oh, jeez.
Yeah. Shred the velvet he broke
he broke a 3 inch tin and then
chipped another 1. Like, it was... He took
some damage, but
I mean, I was just... Was so.
Like, I was just... I was so over
the top. I've had all, batman. So long
for so long to try to find a
a buck like that, and then to have
it all happen.
With a bow, and and with 1 of
my absolute best friends, and
you know, I've I've killed a lot of
deer by myself and man it it it's
fun when you can have a really good
buddy there. And just... Yeah. Dude just enjoy
it with for sure. Yeah.
Do you so that's so cool. So you
get down there.
Around the cliff, get your hands on. And
what'd do you think, man?
Just... I couldn't figure out how he was
so big. Like, I've never
ground he grew. He grew what you got.
Yeah. He was growing. Yeah.
I'd you know I talked with a bunch
of people and I was thinking, like, best
case scenario this year's like,
maybe just over 200 at at past, like,
02:04 02:05 is is what I was thinking.
I I really thought there's a legitimate chance
he was high 1 nineties. It's not have
been... I'd have been over the top no
matter what, but
Yeah. I just... I wasn't expecting, like, 27
inch main beams and 40 plus inches of
mask. Like, it had inside tool.
I'd never calibrated off of something like that.
Yeah. That's so cool.
Yeah.
And then it... I I'd, you know, we
got them packed out and got and took
back to Camp, and then it given it
a lot of thought. It's was like, man,
I had to go...
I to go at least let this other
guy know that this buck dead.
And
like that's... You know, it's... I've had big,
you know,
big, big deer that I'd hunted before and
and you spent a whole season looking for
them and
you know, if if
if you said rather not waste... Have him
waste a you're looking to... You're a commendable
guy to do that. Serious. That's freaking awesome.
So, yeah, We ended up taking him over
to the guy's camp, And it was funny
because he was hunting... He was hunting with
another guy that I actually knew really well.
Pretty good... Really good, dude. I... The knew
him pretty well. And it's funny because it
was pitch black when we got over there
and, as soon as we got to their
camp, I I was holler Adam and and
his buddy like, Tony. Yeah. I hadn't Haven't
introduced myself or but recognize recognized my voice.
And as just... As soon as I said,
yeah. He's, like, Oh, shit. You killed that
dear didn't you.
He knew. So. He he knew. But the
the crazy thing was,
that I told you that night that I'd
stayed in there so late. U.
He thought I killed it that night.
He could figure late the other reason.
Why you were other there.
Yeah. Be in here so late and then
gone the next day.
Myself in that yours... Those shoes too, I
would've have thought the same thing. See you
guys sitting up on them... Yeah. For sure.
Yep. And then he knew I was gone
the next day. So he's just like, man.
He'll impact him email. He's out of here.
He thought the deer was already dead and
gone and halfway gave up on it. Oh
my gosh.
I don't know... Like, this guy's a good
honor. I don't know if that on I'm
not sure. I mean, it's hard to read
read through somebody else's mind, but I don't
know that everything would happened the way it
did had that not played out. For sure.
No. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I I honestly,
as I sit here and I put myself
in that, do you choose if I...
Yeah. I to probably thought the same thing
for sure.
Yeah.
So, I mean, the whole thing... The whole
thing just a, like, absolute whirlwind from start
to finish. It was it was such a
roller coaster, and then after I got him
killed, and I got to thinking about a
like, man. I could hunted all my other
tags.
But
Yeah. First... Sure. But... Yeah. Sometimes no like
that. So, Dude, what did he end up
scoring?
So I was... I don't know. I I...
I've...
Conflicted sink... Because that that night, we we
had crappy stuff that we measured him with
and we measured him with Velvet that we
can... It's hard. Yep. We we we 4
we 4 tired person panel scored them at
at, like, midnight at at 02:16 and a
half.
And then,
I scored them after I stripped in, like,
a day or 2 later, and I had
him at, like 02:14.
But, you know, I was counting the time
that he broke off. Yeah. And then I'd...
He had another time that is actually, like,
inch and a half. But it's wider than
it is long, so I didn't realize that's
that's ineligible. But I ended up having To
bed score him and his official final net
score was like, 02:04
and 586. That's a net score. 02:04.
I think.
Yeah. He he netted almost the same as
he gross. Did check Well, like, I figured
if if he hadn't a broke
and everything you would have been close to
to 02:08.
That's so cool, man. Well, good for Dude.
So cool, man. Like, Yeah. I... That's just...
I don't know. And dude your first buck
with a bow? Is that right?
Yeah. First off of the ball holy cow.
That is so cool. Like
don't
Like, yeah. That is so cool, man. Like,
I just love that. That story is Epic.
Yeah. Yeah. It just... It... I mean, the
whole thing was...
Was like a fairy tale felt like. So
what was your thoughts about?
Your guy that's really got it done with
a rifle a lot? And just what is
your thoughts about Bow hunting? Because, like, I'm
interested to hear your thoughts? Like, is it
something
that, like, dion is, like, thinking about doing
that year in the following year? Like, is
it something you're gonna implement? What are your
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I I have a lot of regrets in
my life. Looks she's back on it now.
It's like,
how many
opportunities did I not look at? Because I'd
narrowed myself into a, like, small narrow path
of how I wanted to do everything.
Like... And I think You know, I still
don't think I'm a good bow owner. Like,
by by any stretch of the imagination, I
think I think the circumstance that happened was
I understood a deer really, really well. And
yeah. And I knew I knew what situation
I needed to make it happen, and III
leveraged my knowledge of that deer.
And made and made it effective,
which, you know, I I honestly feel like
I've probably been at the point where I
could have done that for fibers 6 years
now. Like, and I still... Like, I legitimately
don't think I'm a I'm I'm any better
than than the average person,
that's that's a reasonably good Bull hunter, 6
I'm not I'm not quiet. I'm not sneaky,
but I I think I... There's a lot
of opportunity for a guy who can figure
out how it deere patterns. And then just
take advantage of your man. Yes. Animal wanna
behavior advantage
of something that that deer does. And I
mean, you're not gonna make... A stock every
day. You're not gonna make the stocks that
that the guys that are really affected Bow
owners are gonna be able to make. But,
man, you can a you can be there
and you can look for the right opportunity
and know
know what a deere weakness is and take
advantage of it. Yes. So
we'll definitely looking at stuff differently. Well, dude
that's so good to hear because, like, man,
1 of my... Like, I I always tell
people. And I didn't and there's guys guilty
on both sides of this spectrum
for this. Like, I talk to these guys
and they wanna be... They wanna, like, kill
big bucks and
it's interesting. Someone like, oh, I only bow.
Or I only rifle hunt. And, like, if
your goal is truly to kill, like, big
mule deer, and I'm talking like, you know
like that. Top end, like 1 90 p,
like big box.
Dude to paint yourself in a corner and
only hunt with 1 weapon is the craziest
thing to me. Like, I'll never understand it
because I just think of all the opportunity
And I and I get some guys just
love the Bow. They love. But
dude... There's just so many things you can
take advantage of, like, during that artery season.
I... I've said it for years, man. I
really think the time to kill, like, really
big bucks
is our tree season. Like, I think your
scouting really pays off. You're not like, up
against, you know,
migration, winter storms, like all of that kind
of stuff. It just... I don't know there's
something about that early season. I think a
deer
III honestly believe your odds go up, bow
hunting, killing, like, truly big bucks, at least
that's been my experience, but It's hard sometimes
to get it done, but I don't know,
man. It's just... I'm so glad that all
worked out for he dude and like,
that's just cool. And now I'm just excited
to see
what you get done with a bow in
your hands because now, I mean, those deer
got you hunt them for another solid 30
days
they're in trouble. Yeah. Well it's just... It's
silly because I I mean,
I've got...
I'd have to look on them for a
minute to think it through, but I've got...
I don't know how many of these deer
that are pretty much all general Idaho deer.
That I could have hunted
all of September. Yeah. It's like, how much
more effective could I have been on a
second animal if I got the first 1.
Right?
In September. Because, like, right. I really... You
know, it's it's really tough to kill 1
good buck, especially if you're if you're narrowing
yourself into doing it in October Like, It's
just You know, I got I got a
family. I got a job. I've got a
wife, and I've got responsibilities. And, like, and
I also know, like, I'm really only super
effective for 3 to 4 days and it's
time and
you know, you you just... There's not that
many weekends in October. Yeah. And and then
you... That's not even factoring in, like, bad
weather windows or, like
you, you know, other other weird scenarios where
it's like, there may be, you know, the
the the buck I I killed that was
right above where my truck was parked.
I I was in there opening morning. There's
13 trucks at the trail head, and it
was such a cluster, but
I'm not even gonna try.
To help this deer for another. I wanna
come in the middle of next week. Like,
I wanna have this deer on a Wednesday,
because there was opening morning. I found that
deer right you know, just a little bit
after first light up close to the top
of the ridge, and I'm trying to figure
out a plan for killing him. And there's
2 other guys that are 300 yards away
from him on the top of the ridge.
So it's like, man. This... You know, as
soon as he saw them, he busted out,
but it's just like, man, there's just, you
know, there's so many things that can go
wrong and so few ways that it all
goes right. So you just give yourself as
much opportunity as you can. For sure. I
dude I...
I completely agree. Man. I've set it for
years. I truly believe the hardest time to
kill a big mule dear. This is just
this is and I'd argue this to the
day I die for a hundred reason. But
I truly believe it's like October tenth to
about the 20 fifth of October and like,
it's like, basically Idaho general rifle season. Like,
it is so tough. Like... Yeah. There's just
so many things that change. And I mean,
I
a lot of the places. I hung I
am I have been completely snowed out of,
like, you are not getting in there.
Without a snowmobile bill until, like, October fifteenth.
Or later after October fifteenth. Like, ben completely
snowed out, can't even go in there I
I have snowmobile build in there and, like,
get up there. There isn't a deer track,
everything's migrated out, and you know, and it's
just 1 of those deals that...
Sometimes that does happen. I know what you
were saying about, like, deer not moving. I
think that's generally the case, but I think
sometimes, you know, I don't know. It things
do happen. Oh, every... Yeah.
Every area is different. Yes. And The year
the year before that, I, another year, I
hadn't found anything scouting and I ended up.
1 of the
only bucks in recent time that I I
killed that I hadn't had found beforehand in
Idaho.
It's no Wanna say, like, 18 inches where
I was in October tenth. Mh.
You, And
it it just... I was absolutely getting hammered,
and that's... That's why I killed that box
because there was so much snow on the
ground and it was so cold. But, like,
man, that things can go so hard in
any direction you can't predict it. So just...
Give yourself as much opportunity as you can.
Yes. And there's something about deer
with Velvet on.
They... And I think there's a few different
things that are into play there. I think
they're velvet being on. They don't really like
that. Cover quite as much, I don't think
they, like bang in their ant
on, like, cover. I think they really do
a good job of avoiding it. Like, if
you ever been walking,
and you bump a velvet covered deer and
you watch them like, Bob and weave as
they're going through, like, cover. And then
I've done that with, like, a hard ant
Deer and dude He's just banging in his
head through the Ant like, doesn't care. And
I truly think there's some...
I think I see that, like, they're just
out in the open. Well, and then their
coat, you know, like, the summer coat. I
think they're... They can handle, you know, sitting
out in the sun a little more.
I I just think they're out in the
open a little more. And I I think
Velvet Deer.
I know this. If I add a choice,
Like, if I had, like, somebody said, I
got this 225
inch back.
Would you... You get to honey. But I'm
gonna give you 2 choices. Would you hunt
him hard horn or Velvet, and you only
get 1 or the other? Dude, I'm taking
that velvet every time? Because I'm like, and
I doesn't matter the weapon just because I
think I could probably... Get it done, You
know, Like, I just would probably see him
more.
I'd probably figure him out to probably get
his pattern a little better and probably be
able to kill him, but that's just my
take.
So I I agree with with most of
that, but I do have a little bit
of a diver opinion about how... How people
say bucks get so much harder to find
when they go hard horn. I think I
think it's a lot more... I think it's
a lot more than, like, some behavioral change
in the deer, I think you if you
look at it, like,
I think that's a huge part of it.
So what... I mean, at the same time
as Buck shed velvet it. First or second
week of September for frost. What else happens
first first frost. Yep. It's So they change
Dude.
Transitioning to differ food sources.
They've got a heavier coat that comes in
at the exact same time. Yep. So they're
more uncomfortable
with moving around and being hot. Like they're.
Yep there... It's it's the least time of
demand I think for a deer. So, like,
for thermal regulation, I think a deer is
most comfortable in that weather window between early
September and mid off. October. Like, they're just
you're they're just on cruise control before the
rut happens. They're not trying to burn energy.
However, much weight they've put on they're gonna
put on because the super nutrient rich food
is is now no longer available. Yep. So
it's, like, I think they're just... I think
it's a lot of things happening.
But I think a big part of it
is that their
their demands to do things is so dramatically
reduced that once that they're just... They don't
need to move as much. And they don't
want to move as much, and it's not
comfortable to move as much. They're harder to
see. I mean, they lost the bright red
coat Now they're a dull gray brown
harder to see. Just even that alone, They're
harder to see, you know, like, your eyes
it just gets a little different. Yep, For
sure. While the amount of hours that they're
gonna spend up on their feet are dramatically
cut. Like, so just, you know, have everybody
finds stuff based off of movement. Like, the
amount of the percentage of time that people
find a time sticking out of the brush
is so low, I think it's comic personally.
Like, that's.
On it. So if if people see stuff
because it move,
and the animals are now moving,
like, 60 percent less, I'm just making up
a number. Yeah. But it's a dramatic amount
less. Well, you're gonna see less than half
as many deer because you saw them because
they moved. Yes. So
But that's why I'm so... Yep. That's why
I'm so adamant about, like, I'm gonna know
this deer top to bottom where he beds
where he hangs out.
Because then those small windows that he actually
moves,
I'm really dialed in where I'm looking. Yes.
Well, dude, like, the whole frost thing.
I think it's so important that hunters understand
that because it could... I think it completely
changes a Deer die. I am convinced that
once you get, and it might be like
a couple for us, but I think that
nutritional value of plants completely changes like,
There's multiple different species of plants that they
can even eat until a frost happens, and
then they will
switch over
and do that Elder barry is like, do
you...
It's so crazy if you can find an
Elder berry bush, like up in deer country?
And you really pay attention to him most
of the time, if you go walk around
like an Elder berry bush.
And it's in pretty good deer country, you
will not, like, anything those deer can reach
it has been 8, like once it frost
and have frost happens.
They can't eat those berries. I think they're
poisonous. Yeah. They're poisonous. I think it's... I
can't remember the ad. What it is. It's
like, it might be the same thing that's
in, like, an apple seed.
But mh. It's basically poisonous as soon as
it freezes, that poison gets sucked down into
the roots of that plant, and then they're
edible.
And do gear. Love them. And they they
will never touch that plan until it freezes.
And so there's all of these changes that
are going on that I don't think the
average guy. And I do hear a lot
of people just say,
oh, they become a different animal.
I like you said when at the... I
don't believe that... I don't either... Well I
mean, All summer long, I watch a mow
down, like, fire weed and all these different
flowers. As as as soon as it freezes
hard. You all of the flowers stop and
fall off. They don't care about it. They
completely almost ignore it. Like I've watched them
across the hillside.
They're all a sudden hitting browse. You know
what I mean? Like, yeah it's weird.
There's just things going on that I don't
think
I wish I could talk to a deer
for a day.
Yeah. I... Well, I'm right there with you
that, but they are
They are not a different animal. They're the
same animal under different circumstances is Yes. Is,
I think a hundred percent of what it
is. Yes.
Well, in your whole, dude the whole movement
thing,
it's 1 of the funniest things.
I see you guys get crazy.
Like, not... They'll get into a spotting scope
using a spotting scope for
2 hours,
and they literally will never look back in
their and they're just picking apart this hillside
looking for, like, a 9. Due to such
waste of time, I put a guy that
is using a spotting scope efficiently smartly, and
then putting a guy using tens,
like, just some
8 whatever. 8 power, 10 power, and he's,
like, rolling them in to scan the entire
area, it may say every. It's at least
once every 10 minutes for maybe 1 minute
or whatever. Just making sure he's looking at
all of it, Do you don't bet money.
That guy that's going back and forth the
bin.
Is probably out spotting the guy getting super
crazy with the spotting scope. It's just filled
a view and all of those things forward
to play.
Like 4 to 1.
4 to 1 he's eval spotting guy. I...
And... Yeah.
Spotting scope has its place. Like, I'm... You...
You'll never see me anywhere without a big
spotting scope with you. My small spotting scope
is is ASTX
95, and then I've got a 01:15 for
what it gets really serious.
And then love... And then on 6... On
trips where I don't wanna take a spotting
scope By taking Fcc. So... Yeah. Yeah. You
know,
never
no like, that... There's there's no trip that
I don't have some kind of supplies.
Send the same way, man. Won't be with...
For me,
for me, spotting scope starts, like spotting scope
lasting,
like,
starts at 2 miles. This spotting scope learn
to verify what I saw with my bin.
Yes.
And you're... So you're a cover... You're you're
in the cover the hill camp. 20 times
versus cover it thoroughly once. Right? That's kind
of the camp you'd would put yourself in.
Oh, yeah...
Yeah. Just glued on it. Just glued on
it staring at you know, different sections of
the... You know, III
tried grit sometimes. I get bored. I'm, like,
and, like, every other Adhd deer hunter out
there. Like, let me new, man. You know,
I just... I bounce around, like, a fart
and skillet it. So it's like, I I
go from high probability. I spend most of
my time in the highest probability thoughts. Yep.
And then I'll scan around,
like, different transitional areas where I don't expect
to see him as much. Yep. But I
still always look at them.
And
you know, I try and I try and
be efficient with the time I'm able to
pay attention. Like, pretty good at focusing on
mule dear, but
but, you know, being able to truly focus,
like, hours and hours and hours on end,
It it really takes a lot of effort.
Yeah. Well, and I dude not... I've honestly,
over the years, I used to kinda be
that guy, Like, I would I would sit...
I and I'd go with somebody buddies, you
know, and I'd sit and get really serious
in a spotting scope, And I'd be, you
know, scanning into those hard to
look at places and I'll still do that.
But dude, I have this rule, And I
I like, have this rule in the back
of my head. If it's been more than
10 minutes, and my bin particulars have not
been on my tripod. I'm breaking all of
the rules. Like, throughout the day, I will
always... Even if I'm getting serious looking with
my spotting scope, maybe far away. I'll always
just get my bin out and go through
a complete scan of the entire area a
dude, and I can't tell you how many
bucks I picked up. That all of a
sudden got on their feet, their change in
beds, maybe the sun hit him. Who knows
what the reason is. But I spot them
that way where if a guy is just
sitting in his spotting scope looking at this
hundred foot section of the mountain, he misses
all that. And it's I don't know. I
think you can get too wild in a
spotting scope.
Yeah. I think that frequency of exposure, like,
just the amount of times you look at
all the important parts of the hill is
Yes. It's super critical.
Yeah. It was it real... I'm I'm glad
you brought that up because it was just
interesting to hear you say that because, like,
I am in that exact same camp. But
I know there's guys that are
efficient
you know, and they get get it done
and they really spend a whole bunch of
time in a spotting scope. Are you
Are you an angled spotting scope guy or
a straight body small guy. Straight straight spotting
style. My angle wonder bat.
My guy because, like, dude, this is another
thing. And And I I actually got a
podcast coming out about this, but, like, this
is my thing. If you have an angled
spotting scope, you're adjusting your tripod. And when
you adjust your tripod, I don't care who
you are, you start to get lazy,
and you don't go back and forth between
and spotting scope like you should be. That's
my take. And, like,
to change
I think for a guy to be super
efficient, you should be able to
spot something in your bin vernacular and without
adjusting that tripod in... I'm talking in 10
seconds. Have that book in your spotting scope.
Exactly. You didn't touch your tripod just switching
quickly out. I think that's super important. But...
Yep. Yeah. Yep. I can't stand angled spotting
scope. I also think you're... I I don't
care how proficient you are. Your slower finding
game with an angled spotting scope. I agree
to I agree too, dude in, like, in
the thick country, like you were talking about
hunting the burns.
You know, there's some of those hillside that
I'm glass into. And, literally, it looks like
there are parts of it, the look the
exact same for, you know,
I don't know half my. Like, it's just...
It's all the same. And there are some
times you find something
in my my bin oc and all I
do, hit my quick release. Grab my spotting
scope, put it in there and that buck
will be in the field of view of
my spotting scope just like well, as my.
Additionally to that, like, I actually tune my
plate on my spotting scope man, the center
of aim on my bin in the center
of aim on my spotting you like. It
can be tough it can be tough with
up down because there's not really any adjust
for that. I got a I got a
hint for you, dude. So I got these
Shi
they're Mh. Ultra
fine. What who are you... Which system are
you using? I
I've got a,
through ray.
So I got a plate
that will go.
If you're using something that attaches, so you're
right, like, if I use, like outdoors system
versus, like Sw like I put, like, an
outdoors rail. I like their balance rail
underneath my spotting scope just because it I
kinda lets me get away with a little
smaller. But dude, I got these little... Tiny
metal shi like, I'm talking.
I don't know if they're, like a thousand
they are so... I don't even know what
they're made out of, but dude, I can
adjust my height, I actually... I'll have to
show you this. I can, like, it's super
cool. Like, get left and right. Perfect and
my up down so, like, it's money.
That stuff matters. It does. Dude, like, it...
I think it really does. Like, in...
Because there's been instances.
This is what's happened to me and why
I kinda got into this.
Is I dude I caught this buck, you
know, in my bin particulars. I'm hall in
ass, I'm getting my spotting scope out. I
get it on and all I see is
the tell of him. Going
into the trees because I had to make
a little adjustment like that. Dude you cost
me
sitting on that mountain for freaking 3 days
Dude, I lost those 3 days, and he
ended up being a good book, but I
wasn't, like super excited about in pursuit at
the time when I saw him going into
the trees. I was like, that's a good
buck.
And if I would've have just been on
him a little faster,
and then there's been some other instances I
never even got to see the deer again.
So, yeah.
Well, additionally to that, the other thing I've
kind of adopted,
I view almost all of my spotting scope
looking through my cell phone now. U. And
I record everything. Mh. Because I can't tell
you how many times
I've seen a buck for just a second
or 2, and he only gives you that
1 good look. Really quick.
And
you can lie to yourself about what you
think something is on a first impression judgment.
Yes. But, man, if you can go back
and zoom in
and rewind and book back
and and look at them from every angle
he gave you. Even if it's a little
bit lower quality than actually just seeing it
through the glass.
I feel like that's better for for scouting
for sure.
To the Otherwise, I can't tell you how
many gear I've seen for a second or
2, and they just give you that 1
quick look and it's like, do I stay
here tomorrow? Or do I go somewhere else?
Completely agree to. Dude there's been so many
times. And even when I had
various, like, phone scope type systems. Like, I'm
looking at the deer watching and walking at
the trees, like exactly like you're saying, and
I didn't dare,
put my...
Take the second to, like, miss this deer
walking into the trees, and I'd... Have no
footage man. Like... Yeah. Yep. What covered it
on as soon...
So I... I'm using all in right now
and And it just... Everything is a compromise.
The
the all really...
It's the fastest for getting Yes. Everything put
together.
But the case is just not awesome. And
Right the Yeah. The double sticky tape that
they use to put on their little magnet
piece is kinda junk. Mh. And then you
lose you lose the flashlight on your phone
and you lose
lose your wide angle lens and you lose
your Zoom lens so, like, My camera only
works from 1 x to 2.9.
So it's like, you know, because there's sometimes
where I like the digit scope on a
higher Zoom on my phone. You get a
little bit more light out of your phone
than than if you do like a manual
magnification on your on your spotter.
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Dude I'm with you... So I'm using the
same... The all into. I don't think there's
a better system out there. As far as
speed,
like, to throw it up on itself aligns.
Everything's perfect.
I do love it. I just wish they
could make those few little tweaks. Like, I
think if they could make, like, somehow figure
something out. I don't know if they made
it slide into play. I don't know. That
I just wish they could come up with
something. Yeah. If agree. I'm I'm... I... And
I feel like the Mag view I got
to where I could I could have it
adjusted in maybe 2 seconds. Like, I was
pretty darn fast at it. Most of the
time I get it right where it need
to be... And have to make just, like,
a tiny fractional shift.
But it it's it's better for everything else,
but it's like, I don't Don't... There's no...
Everything's a compromise. Yes. I agree, man. And
I think... But I do think for me,
like, in the heat of the bad, like,
defining a buck. It's just like I want
that thing quick and on there in 2
seconds. I don't even have to think about
it.
Yeah. But what you what I ended up
doing is I
I take the all in case off for
just like regular...
Stuff. U. I then what happens, I forget
the dang thing sometimes. So oh, yeah. Yep.
It's just... I don't I don't know. There's
there's no perfect answer for sure,
I do I do have 1 other thing
I wanted to hit you with. Yeah.
Because we were we were originally gonna do
this a few months ago. And I'm like,
man, on a few days away from getting
the back. On the butt. Yes. That dude,
And I I like, I got... We got
tele taco bucks story it. Yeah. Dude. The
age. I want it. Yes. On So and
and this ties into the the other guy
that was on him. And he'd actually get
hunting him for 2 years. And he had
pictures and, like, good quality pictures and video
of the buck. The year before
Know this. I do... Dude, I don't think
you... Yeah. I think when you... We were
talking about this, is said don't tell me
anymore. I wanna get it on the podcast.
Yeah. So
The buck was 8 years old,
lab age.
And
I don't know... You know, it was such
a good year.
Weather wise for growth, but I don't know
if the if the winner beat him up
so hard. Bet Bet gross score he probably
about the same, but his mainframe was definitely
bigger the year before.
So it's so to read into that too
much. So it's very... Did you listen to
Robbie and
doctor Monte.
The they all your guys. Yeah. So so,
Dude, he was seeing on collar deer. Now,
this is really good data.
That he was seeing of, I think he...
I I could be quoting this wrong. So
sorry if I got this wrong, everybody. But
I'm pretty sure he said it was like
10 to 20 inch,
different average on all of the bucks that
they had colored. Now you gotta keep in
mind. Some of those deer they're looking at.
10 to 20 inches is going to be,
like,
10 percent of their score. Like, they're looking
at, you know, deer from hundred inches, like,
small 2 point like, small stuff, all the
way up to... Yeah. And they were seeing
a 10,
to 20 inch. I'm quite sure that's what
it is. I know it was over 10
inches. I swear. Yeah.
And then I talked to some of the
I've talked to some guys that
are kinda working,
like guided hunting places like private property and
they were kinda confirming with some of the
deer, they they had been
like, watching over the years that last year
if the deer did survive, which that some
of that. Just didn't happen. But they were
seeing the same things. They were even saying
even more. And then I look at like
Scotty Thomson, buck from last year,
the year prior, you know, he was watching
in multiple years, down you know, 15, 20
inches. So it's interesting that your dear,
was at age?
Was he hitting that age or was it
just that freaking rough winter? You know, did
it, like... And that was last year that
they were seeing all those stunt growth?
Winter just dragged on so long, and I
mean, I don't think nutrition was there for.
Like it was good. Once it green up,
but it took a while. So it's interesting.
That's very interesting.
And it's so dynamic because I think I
think Central Idaho is probably some of the
worst deer habitat that grows big deer in
this country. Like, it's... You know, we have
big deals Got it, it just doesn't... It
doesn't make sense because everything, you, you know,
if you if you look, if you look
at what... Central Idaho is composed of. They
they call the Idaho bath. It's all it's
all rock. Like, Yes. It's 1 giant granite
rock structure,
And most of the dirt is just ground
down granite. Like, it's not actual dirt soil
like, what, you know, everywhere else has. It's
all just broke down rock, and there's not...
I don't think there's like, great mineral content
in it.
So I think our average deer, like, you
look at our average year and they're pretty
much smaller than everywhere. We have some exception...
Deer, but, like, on average, I think it's
way worth. Yes. Wyoming or Colorado or Utah.
And I think I think that contributes a
lot to, you how much longevity those deer
have. It's just they're like, they're not on
as good of habitat.
And I think that I think that just...
I think what you would probably see is
their teeth wear fast. And this is all
just, like, you know,
amateur Yeah.
Guessing its stuff off of really limited information
and no scientific process at all. But it
seems it seems like
I would assume Dear in Central Idaho probably
go downhill earlier.
Very well. I think they live... I think
they live a harder life. Yes. But it's
it's so hard to say, because I mean,
there's there's so many different variables and there's
so many different contributing factors, But how did
it teeth look to you? Because, like, everything
that I've killed So let's see. I think
I've killed
I... I'm trying to remember how many 4
I think 4 over 8, and
I think it's been kind of interesting that
04:08 that I think,
maybe it was... Yeah. Anyways,
did I... The teeth wear has been...
A little different on all of them. I
gotta say. Like, in fact, 1 in Colorado,
the last 1 I got out of Colorado,
I didn't think his teeth looked near that
bad. He was a 9 and a half
year old deer, but I didn't think his
teeth like, I would never guessed that looking
at his teeth. I thought he was gonna
come back.
You know, over 6 for sure, but I
I that really shocked me. So how did
this box teeth look? Like did they...
They were starting to get pretty worn down.
And from what I understand, like, how sharp
a deere teeth is directly relates to how
much nutrition they can get out of their
feet. Mh.
And his teeth were definitely starting to look
less sharp, which is kinda crazy because... And
this will tie into something else I'm really
excited to tell you about. The deer I
killed the year before was 9 and a
half. And had dramatically better teeth. The deer
killed the year before that was 8 and
a half and had dramatically better teeth.
Interesting
and and all of them from Central Idaho.
I mean, 3 different units, but...
And did all of those bucks? Did you
know about them the year prior? Did they,
like... Go up.
So I only knew about 1 of the
8 year old deer. Okay. I'd known about
him for 2 years before I killed him.
Cool.
And he'd stayed about the same size.
And she was pretty close to the same
size. The 1 the year before, he's he's
the 1 I killed that had, like, 21
inch long g twos and really Goofy looking
Forks and
and he's only scored, like, 01:60 something.
That's so interesting man.
Yeah. But the other crazy revelation because I've
aged my dear for,
I got all my mats and things. Opened
up now. I started agent deer.
What was it, like, 27...
16 or 17. U. It's 17. So I've
aged everything I've killed since 20 17.
And
it was just like a month ago. Maybe
I was looking at all over
And,
I killed my my buck last year was
8. My buddy Awards buck was 8. Another
buddy mine Anthony. All of these in you
know, on a pretty tight area to where
I killed my butt. U His butt was
also 8. So we killed 3 deer that
were 8 years old out of the same
area, you And then I looked at my
buck the year before was 9 and a
half, and then I had another 8 and
half year old deer, and then a 5
and a half year old deer. And I'm
adding all the ages up on these.
I haven't killed a deer in the state
of Idaho that's been born since 20 15.
Dude that's incredible.
Yeah.
And, I mean, historically, my my average age
years is 4 and a half, 5 and
a half years old, which makes sense because
there's gonna be there's gonna be more of
those that that hit the size threshold that
I'm gonna wanna shoot. Yep.
If if you're looking at everything without any
other influencing factors, but
that age class doesn't exist.
Yeah. Like hasn't existed for
a while now. Yeah. So I've been killing
older and older deer by virtue of their
That's what all like.
Exactly all it's flat.
Yeah. It's so true. It really is so
true. It really is. Dude that's, like, that's
really cool, man. The...
I mean, god, just throwing those numbers out
like that. Dude... That's super impressive. Like, to
do that in central Idaho. We're talking general
season. None of these have been like draw
tags right Dion. They're all just like, oh.
I mean, to do that on
that is commendable, man. Over, like, That's impressive.
The craziest 1 of all of it the
9 and a half year old deer that
was living above a trail head, and I'm
not even shy about. It was in unit
39. Hey literally, 1 of the busiest
9.
And there's 13 trucks,
literally a couple hundred yards away from where
he lived for 9 and a half years.
Take that opening day There was 13 trucks
there. And what do you think about that?
Bought that that deer... Like, did he just
figure something out the...
Hey. I've lived here. There's some trucks down
here, but they can't see me like a
deal like that where he just kind of
exploited a spot.
Man, this is at risk of shooting myself
in the foot, but I'm I'm I'm so
excited about this situation that it's like, it's
fun to share anyways. U.
So where that deer lived right above that
trail head,
it was it was,
like, an impossible situation for the average person
never see that deer. So, yeah. You couldn't
see him from, like, where these trucks were
parked? You couldn't see it. Right?
Well, I'll explain it. So the trail runs
down in the bottom. U. It's so steep
at the bottom of the hill that you
can't see up. Gotcha. At the top of
the hill, there's so much role
that you can really only see, like, 20
30 yards, Yep. Because the hill has so
much role at the top. And then the
middle of the hill, the spacing on the
finger ridge is really tight. Like, there's
60, 80 yards between fingers and it's really
brush hillside. Yep. So if you're if you're
on the top bottom or on the middle
of that hill,
There's there's no way to see the deer
before they're gonna hear you. Mh. So the
only way to see the deer on that
hillside is if you're across the canyon. And
there's no way to kill those deer from
the hillside they're on. So about the only
way you could reliably kill a deer on
that hills shoot cross Canyon. Gotcha.
Dude, I can think... Well, I know.
I mean, 1 of the books I killed
in Wyoming,
dude this buck,
it was a book typical. Dude, he was
living
literally.
I... Like, 1 of the craziest busy trails
in Wyoming, dude. I watch guys the day
before the opening day when I killed him,
I bet you I don't even know how
many pack strings, guys with packs. They're all
headed way up to the high country. This
deer are just chilling right off the trail.
Dude these so close to the trail he
would literally, like, when the horses would go
by, he would, like,
noticeably
look up there and, like, be paying attention
and just listen. Mh. Let him go on
by. Like, he's that like, he is right
there. But do you Yeah. Couldn't see him.
If you were on that hill because of
the way that The hill rolled off. There
was no way to see you... Like, you
couldn't see from that trail. You would had
to hike get off trail, bush at, clear
around
and then glass from the other direction. Like,
it's
it's crazy what deer
can tolerate and put up with And, dude,
I think they do just sometimes exploit some
of these places, the man,
like, if he got 9 and a half
years old, and free in that unit in
Idaho on a general season, he's doing something.
Right? Like I'm 10000 people hunt that unit
every year for deer. Yeah.
It's literally the the highest pressure unit in
the state of Idaho. Yes. It's just... In
Mx...
It's
I've had enough situation like that where it's
been like, formative in how my process of
finding spots to hunt goes because you know,
the big open beautiful Scenic basins that you
can glass from, you know, 1 high point,
and see 10 of them. Like, any good
book that was in those
everybody's gonna east out that spot. Like they're
there. There was a if there was a
good bot there, somebody shot him. Yes.
So dude That's not even where I'm looking
anymore. I'm right there with you, dude. I've
wrote that I wrote the high country off.
I haven't seen a deer that I wanted
to kill in the high country. And so
long the dude, I don't even waste. Like,
I I don't... I don't... III end up
going up there because I'm glad alright I
go up high and I'll glass up there
a little bit, but what are I'm looking
is way down low, like, way down in
the thick stuff.
Just because dude, like,
do they cannot survive? They cannot grow old
in a lot of, like, the, you know,
the typical high country Like I mentioned that
Dear Wyoming
everybody's up to that.
High country. That's where the books are. That's
where everybody wants to be and it's like,
yeah, there's bucks up there. There is. Well,
but they're not the ones I'm interested in.
I'm interested. Of. Like, next level ones.
When I when I handed Wyoming a few
years ago and I was bouncing ideas off.
I remember you like halfway to chuckle when
I told you some of the stuff I
was looking at, and you're like, man you're
on the right. Yeah.
Yes.
Yep. For sure. Dude. Like, it's just... I
don't know. It's just funny how
it's weird. Hunters can be so funny and
they'll just do these things that... I I
don't know, and maybe somebody was successful.
20 years ago or they... Maybe they've even
seen... And and there are an occasional buck,
you know, I... Like, there is an occasional
big buck,
but usually generally,
if you look even if it's a big
buck that was killed up in the high
country usually like some young like buck that
blew up. And got that big, kinda come
out of nowhere. You don't really...
I don't know of any, like,
next level
bucks growing old
living up in the eye country. It's just
not gonna happen, and that's what I want.
That's what I wanna look find. Not
not in anywhere that has any kind of
hunting pressure. Not in anywhere that you could
reasonably get it tech. Like, you can...
If if you have some super artificial environment
where you've just made such little hunting pressure
that they can exist as though people didn't,
you know, exist on this landscape,
Yeah. I mean, that's that's a thing there,
but... Yes. You know, not not anywhere you
can get a tag and hunt every year.
That's right.
Well, dude.
There's been a lot of good stuff in
this Dion before we close out,
I got... I just... Like, I was wondering,
we we kind of made a few suggestions.
But if you could
look at, like average deer hunters,
can you... Is there, like, 1 or 2
things,
that you think they're doing or wrong that
you would or like, look at it this
way. If you could sit down and talk
with 20 year old d, what advice would
you have for him, Like, just
after living,
you know, going through, learning all this stuff.
Like, is there anything you would say or
got any advice. You went through a few
things. Yeah.
I've, I've got... I think I got a
pretty good answer for that actually, because it
it happened, you know, it was it was
it was a revelation I I had.
And
everybody
when we hunt, we we apply things that
we've seen and experienced and we look... We
look at everything we do through this filter
of our life experiences. Mh.
And more often than not, I think we're
wrong.
Mh.
If you go into it with the mentality
of you have, like, you you know the
playbook,
you you know, deer think on different levels
than we do about different things than we
think. I mean, if everybody's going through life
with all of these different stress and these
different things that their their primary focus is,
and and the things that you worry about
and care about are are totally different lens
to look through life at, Yeah. And and
that's probably not the lens that that deere
is looking through life at. So like, everything
you do is tainted by by, you know,
everything else in your life. So...
For me, when I figured out that I
needed to be really, really open minded and
just say that I've never got more than
a good idea what might be happening.
I started seeing a lot more opportunity where
I was overlooking it. And, like figuring out
those places where you know, hey, this doesn't
seem like what I think, you, it's right
above a super busy trail head. Know, no
nobody kicks that spot as their primary place
to go glass.
But be open minded all of these different
opportunities and stop thinking, you know, like, even
for myself, I don't I don't ever go
into it thinking. I know what's gonna happen.
But I I try and make best best
assessments and and take a good guess at
it. And then I'm really open to what
I see, and
and I'm not so firm that I won't
change everything I'm doing if I see something
that might be better. Dude, I really like
that, because I think
there's a lot of...
Dear hunters that do are there good hunters.
Like, I know like, really good hunters, but
the can sometimes get stuck in, like,
maybe something that used to work or
it worked 15 years ago like, not up
to change, and, you know, and I think
they kinda get stuck in this rut of,
like, I'm gonna keep doing the same thing
and never change. III really like that, man.
Yeah. Just approach everything with a really open
mind.
And and don't discount things just because they're
not they're not your first thought of what
it should be. Yeah.
Dude, I like.
Do Dion, I really dude I love talking
to you man. You're 1 of my favorite
guys talk to. I really too. Like, I
just always look forward to talking to you
and listening to your take on everything. I
think everybody I mean, they know you, but
I think everybody enjoy this 1, so, dude,
it was pretty awesome. And I'm so happy
to hear that story and Appreciate it and
Yeah. I appreciate it. And I I love
visiting with you too, and, man, I gotta...
You know, I was telling you the other
day I gotta give you guys a lot
of credit. I I think you guys have
the best podcast going for for guys that
wanna get better hunting, man. You just... You
really need to try to understand the game
better and you guys are doing so much
to bring people's really good information. Like, outside
of outside of the the stereotypical,
what people think they'd probably need to know
to be a better hunter like, man, which
you guys are bringing so incredible. I learned
so much. Listen to you and Robbie talked
to all the different guests you have. Well
do that. Yeah. Thanks, man. And it it's
been. For you know, it's been kinda interesting
because
I think a lot of the...
I don't know. I think a lot of
people they their eyes kinda glaze over when
we're talking. And, But do...
When we're just talking to biologists and they
kinda think, oh, it's same old thing. How
much more can you learn? Like, I've heard
that comment. Like, I've had...
People kinda say that. And I'm just like,
man, if you open your mind, you can
learn so much. Like, I'm constantly just like,
whoa, this is crazy. My mind is just
constantly...
Like, I'm learning new things all the time,
and I think it's important. I I I'd...
I think hunters have got to get
just a little better
understanding of, like, how everything's working and I
think it makes some better deer hunters when
you understand it, and
make better wildlife management decisions and try to
understand,
You know, all the things they're going through.
And I was the guy that... I mean,
this is kind of a funny story, but
I was the guy, the blame fishing game
for everything, man. 15 years ago. Yeah. If
you would have told myself or me 15
years ago, I'd kinda be in the situation
where I'm at, Like,
really trying to understand. And and I just
finally...
I was so frustrated, and I was so
upset with just, like, the way things were
going. And I'm like, dude, I gotta get
involved. I gotta under and more.
And then I start trying to understand, like,
what's all these different things that are going
on that are affecting Mule deer, and I
really, like, get my hands dirty and, like,
show up
to meeting, show up when they're asking for
volunteers,
like my mind has just been blown, and
I feel so bad for some of the
stuff that I said and would comment, and
I mean, just I was just an idiot.
I really was. Like I was just like,
yeah. I spend more time in the woods
than you all of you guys combined. That
was me, man, and I I might have
spent more time in the woods, but I
didn't understand everything the way I should have
been like, thinking about things.
I I may have actually said those exact
words to a biologist at some point.
But the the thing that's crazy to me,
Is how much we really don't know
and how little we can actually change. Like
it's... And that's that's the thing that's made
me get like, a lot less angry at
at anything fishing game does. It's like, man,
They manage people. They don't manage the game.
The weather manages the game, the habitat the
manages the game.
And and there's just... There's so much that
we really, really, really don't understand. Mh. That
how can anybody have a firm opinion on
any of it when we really don't know.
And we just... I think it's still worthwhile
that to, at least pursue more knowledge
and try and get a better idea how
we can help these and things and and
and make it sustainable. Because God, I want
my kids to have a glory days too.
Me too I want my kids to be
able to see a 20 15 me too
make that's... Dude you don't to see it
again. Me too, man. Like, and that's the
thing that I keep thinking in the back
of my head is, like, it really wasn't
that long ago.
It was pretty epic. And it's cool. Like,
talking to you about it. It just guys
all over, you know, and, like, how awesome.
We really had wow that dude 2015.
It was pretty good. Like, we had pretty
dang good, D. Like, we were lucky
And then
I had, like, a fraction of an idea
what I was doing. And I had had
2 bucks over 1 90 that I was
hunting that year, and that was the year
I killed my big wide buck. He went
1 80 threes. 32 inches wide in this
plug. Man, I... You couldn't swing a dead
cat without winning a decent 4 phones. Yes.
Like It just I
It was... Man, it was so good. And
it was such a good time to learn,
man. I I feel like I had such
an incredible opportunity spending like, a hundred plus
days a year in the hills.
And it's just, like, for a guy who
had had the opportunity.
To go out and learn, you could learn
so much faster. Dude. It's right. Like, I...
That's what I keep thinking is it's like,
man, I was thinking about that. Like, could
take all that opportunity I had and all
the the deer Was able to screw up
on and learn on and do all these
things. Like, man, if I was trying to
do that, Like, now it would be way...
It would be a lot more of a
challenge. You know, It really would. They... Just
because the opportunities out there.
I'll wonder how many guys that could be
phenomenal hunters give up because they just don't
get enough reward for their effort.
Like, I'm I'm mean now. I mean, I'm
committed now, But, like, how many guys that
that If you to put them in that
timeline, would have had so many great experiences
and seen and learned so many things and
it would have been something that stuck with
them that now are just getting frustrated and
giving up, and like, we can't afford to
lose those people. Yes. I think a lot,
man. I know a lot of people
in the past few years.
That's
just pretty much kinda wrote it off and
give up and, like, or just lost interest
or just not... They they've lost interest in
it. Yeah.
I mean, I know a lot of guys
that are, like, dialed in good hunters
that had they had another 5 years when
the Hunt was really good. Like, they could
have been so much better, but they're just...
The the limited opportunity and limited exposure,
just not getting to look at as many
deer and watches as many critters. I think
it you know, yeah. Some of these guys
it's just, like, man, you you
you you judge yourself face off of the
opportunities you've had, but, like, you're a really
good hunter and you've just
you know, I started with a great head
start. Like, I, you know, it was
Yeah. Was good to learn when I did,
but like some of these guys now. It's
like, man, guys are hard on themselves. They're
not not necessarily finding or or doing things
that they'd hope to achieve and it's like,
man are tough times? Yes. And and it
makes it hard. We've talked about the attitude
thing early in... Podcast. But I I think
it's way easier
when you've been kicked in the teeth for
20 years, and this happens
the guys can kinda lose that
driver that edge, and they kinda get a
bad attitude, and I I think the difference
is is guys that succeed. Just keep their
head up. They got a positive attitude every
years of new year kinda thing. And the
guys that are kinda stuck in that,
it's pretty tough to break, You know? It's
it's really tough, and I just feel so
fortunate that I I got, you know, I...
I started when it was easier to have
a win and those wins
you know, led me to be confident and
have, you know, good... Experiences and and feel
like even now when it is harder, you
know, I've got this this past of of
figuring out a way. But, like I figured
out away when it was easier. Yeah. So
you know, I don't know if it's a
false confidence or or or if it's truly
earned, But, yeah, I just... I hope I
hope we can get back to where things
are better, and I hope lots of people
can have have all the great experiences I've
had. Me too And my wife life should
be so different without it. Yeah. Meet. Oh,
dude. Me too. And... I'm convinced we're gonna
get back there. Like, we're gonna see some
good times again. III
have to think that. I just know that
kinda goes back into the attitude thing Like,
I'm so excited for this year, man. Like,
just talking with you. I'm, like, dude, I
gotta get off the... I'm headed to the
mountains. You know what I mean? I'm just
excited. Like, I just... And I am, but
I'm I'm like out anyway, like, every July
do this
right well, we're still in June, but as
July starts approaching what are we now? 10
days from
July. But dude does July starts approaching.
I start getting more and more excited. Like,
to dude... There's just like something in the
air. I don't know what it is.
I mean, I cannot wait to get out
there and start seeing, like, ant
develop. I mean, I've been out quite a
bit just looking, but it's kinda hard to
tell this time of year, and I'm just
Dude, I'm so excited. I love it. You
have.
Yep. Same. I feel the same way. Yeah.
Well, dude, it's always so fun to talk
to you man. I shared... I really appreciate
your time, Buddy.
Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Hopefully, hopefully,
we don't bore people this being so long.
I guarantee see They're calling that to dude.
They're gonna love us. It's gonna be awesome.
I I had a great time talking regardless.
So he did. Yeah. Thanks.
With the help sports been and women and
concerned citizens we can defeat the hunting bans
here in Colorado. Go to say the hunt
colorado dot com. Thanks for listening.