1 00:00:03,839 --> 00:00:05,519 It's not just setting up a camera leaving 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,279 and coming back and hoping for the best. 3 00:00:07,279 --> 00:00:08,800 It's doing the research on the front end 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,779 and then understanding behavior on an individual level. 5 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:14,855 And that, when you nail the shot exactly 6 00:00:14,855 --> 00:00:17,355 the way you're intending to nail that shot 7 00:00:17,655 --> 00:00:20,295 because you put in the time that could've 8 00:00:20,295 --> 00:00:22,635 taken weeks, could've taken months, could've taken years 9 00:00:23,015 --> 00:00:24,774 to get exactly what you thought it was 10 00:00:24,935 --> 00:00:26,695 that animal was gonna do at the time 11 00:00:26,695 --> 00:00:28,214 you thought it was gonna do it. Yeah. 12 00:00:28,214 --> 00:00:30,030 It is one of the best feelings ever. 13 00:01:01,829 --> 00:01:04,250 You're listening to the Rewilding Earth podcast. 14 00:01:04,630 --> 00:01:06,329 I'm your host, Jack Humphrey. 15 00:01:09,635 --> 00:01:11,635 Near the end of 2025, I spoke to 16 00:01:11,635 --> 00:01:14,194 Ryan Uhlinger from Fin and Fur Films about 17 00:01:14,194 --> 00:01:16,855 the new release of a documentary called American 18 00:01:16,915 --> 00:01:17,415 Southwest. 19 00:01:18,114 --> 00:01:20,194 The film received a lot of attention, and 20 00:01:20,194 --> 00:01:22,530 the visual storytelling was spectacular. 21 00:01:23,069 --> 00:01:25,150 Today, I have another treat for listeners who 22 00:01:25,150 --> 00:01:26,209 loved that documentary. 23 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:29,560 Borderlands Jaguar is set to release on January 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,350 13 and is a remarkable exploration of the 25 00:01:32,350 --> 00:01:35,329 rugged, untamed heart of the Northern Jaguar Reserve. 26 00:01:36,005 --> 00:01:38,665 Joining me today is Austin Alvarado, a wildlife 27 00:01:38,725 --> 00:01:39,225 cinematographer 28 00:01:39,605 --> 00:01:41,444 who traded his oars as a Rio Grande 29 00:01:41,444 --> 00:01:43,765 river guide for the patient, grueling work of 30 00:01:43,765 --> 00:01:45,844 tracking one of the most elusive predators on 31 00:01:45,844 --> 00:01:46,505 the planet. 32 00:01:47,204 --> 00:01:50,085 Austin doesn't just take photos. He embeds himself 33 00:01:50,085 --> 00:01:52,390 in the landscape, spending weeks in the remote 34 00:01:52,390 --> 00:01:55,030 backcountry to fine tune equipment and wait for 35 00:01:55,030 --> 00:01:57,209 a living shadow to pass through the frame. 36 00:01:57,909 --> 00:02:00,390 What makes this film and our conversation so 37 00:02:00,390 --> 00:02:02,009 compelling is the human transformation 38 00:02:02,310 --> 00:02:04,244 at its center. We dive into the story 39 00:02:04,244 --> 00:02:06,724 of the Northern Jaguar Reserve in Mexico, where 40 00:02:06,724 --> 00:02:09,604 a cultural shift around jaguars is quietly taking 41 00:02:09,604 --> 00:02:10,104 place. 42 00:02:10,564 --> 00:02:12,405 We talk about the men who once hunted 43 00:02:12,405 --> 00:02:15,284 jaguars but have now become their fiercest advocates 44 00:02:15,284 --> 00:02:15,870 and protectors. 45 00:02:16,750 --> 00:02:19,469 It's a masterclass in empathy and community, proving 46 00:02:19,469 --> 00:02:21,169 that the best way to protect a corridor 47 00:02:21,229 --> 00:02:23,310 is to first heal the relationship between the 48 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:24,530 people and the land. 49 00:02:25,150 --> 00:02:27,709 Austin brings a quiet, heavy authority to his 50 00:02:27,709 --> 00:02:28,209 work, 51 00:02:28,514 --> 00:02:31,155 a perspective sharpened by grit and stillness in 52 00:02:31,155 --> 00:02:33,655 those long, solitary months in the high desert. 53 00:02:34,354 --> 00:02:36,375 I think you'll find his journey as inspiring 54 00:02:36,594 --> 00:02:37,974 as the footage he captures. 55 00:02:38,435 --> 00:02:39,715 To find out where you can see the 56 00:02:39,715 --> 00:02:41,550 film and when it launches, make sure you 57 00:02:41,550 --> 00:02:46,430 go to rewilding.org/podepisode165 58 00:02:46,430 --> 00:02:48,909 for more details. Austin, welcome to the Rewilding 59 00:02:48,909 --> 00:02:49,650 Earth podcast. 60 00:02:49,950 --> 00:02:51,870 Hey. Thanks. I'm excited to be here. I 61 00:02:51,870 --> 00:02:53,950 am super excited. I'm kind of becoming a 62 00:02:53,950 --> 00:02:56,645 fan here of Fin and Fur films and 63 00:02:56,645 --> 00:02:59,044 all the people you run around with. We 64 00:02:59,044 --> 00:03:01,044 just had Ryan Olinger on not too long 65 00:03:01,044 --> 00:03:03,844 ago, and he was teasing the American Southwest. 66 00:03:03,844 --> 00:03:06,405 It hadn't come out yet either. And so 67 00:03:06,405 --> 00:03:07,544 when I told people 68 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,919 we were going to have you on and 69 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,560 and they're like, why? I can't even see 70 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,359 what where what do you mean? It's like 71 00:03:13,359 --> 00:03:15,919 it's a pending film. Borderlands Jaguar. Come on. 72 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,919 You gotta get on board. So I'm learning 73 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,694 more and more about your little gang of 74 00:03:19,855 --> 00:03:22,094 wildlife photographers and editors and, 75 00:03:22,415 --> 00:03:24,415 and the masterful work that you guys do. 76 00:03:24,415 --> 00:03:27,795 First of all, congratulations. Borderlands is beautiful, 77 00:03:28,175 --> 00:03:28,675 exciting, 78 00:03:29,135 --> 00:03:31,615 and even a little tear jerking. So great 79 00:03:31,615 --> 00:03:33,935 job. Oh, man. I really appreciate that. Yeah. 80 00:03:33,935 --> 00:03:34,435 Thanks. 81 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:36,620 And and, you know, the gang the gang 82 00:03:36,620 --> 00:03:37,900 is just a group of friends trying to 83 00:03:37,900 --> 00:03:39,739 figure it out, so I appreciate the recognition 84 00:03:39,739 --> 00:03:41,580 there. Oh, man. It doesn't look like that 85 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:43,180 from this end. And I would really love 86 00:03:43,180 --> 00:03:44,699 to go behind the scenes with you guys 87 00:03:44,699 --> 00:03:46,219 sometime and just watch how you do what 88 00:03:46,219 --> 00:03:47,819 you do because I bet you it has 89 00:03:47,819 --> 00:03:49,739 that feeling of just we're out here doing 90 00:03:49,739 --> 00:03:51,465 our thing. But, man, the thing that you 91 00:03:51,465 --> 00:03:53,865 guys do is world class stuff. I said 92 00:03:53,865 --> 00:03:55,224 it to Ryan, like, a 100 times. I 93 00:03:55,224 --> 00:03:56,584 think he got tired of me saying it, 94 00:03:56,584 --> 00:03:58,584 but it's for real. And I'm I'm hearing 95 00:03:58,584 --> 00:04:01,145 it from everybody. It's not just me. So 96 00:04:01,145 --> 00:04:02,664 we should just get into it. I I 97 00:04:02,664 --> 00:04:05,145 was doing some background work here looking at 98 00:04:05,145 --> 00:04:06,919 you, and I have to start with I 99 00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:09,000 don't know where you typically start your story, 100 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,919 getting people caught up to who you are 101 00:04:10,919 --> 00:04:13,560 and and, where you've been to this point. 102 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,340 But I found out you're a river rat, 103 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,639 like a serious river rat. Man, through and 104 00:04:17,639 --> 00:04:20,055 through. Yeah. I I ended up living out 105 00:04:20,055 --> 00:04:22,134 in West Texas in a small town called 106 00:04:22,134 --> 00:04:24,615 Terlingua, Texas, right on the border between Big 107 00:04:24,615 --> 00:04:26,375 Bend Ranch State Park and Big Bend National 108 00:04:26,375 --> 00:04:28,615 Park. And that was to be a river 109 00:04:28,615 --> 00:04:30,294 guide on the Rio Grande. I fell in 110 00:04:30,294 --> 00:04:32,375 love with the Rio. I was only gonna 111 00:04:32,375 --> 00:04:33,790 be in Tjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjernjern 112 00:04:46,125 --> 00:04:48,365 I met several people from the from the 113 00:04:48,365 --> 00:04:48,865 Fennifer 114 00:04:49,165 --> 00:04:51,245 family out there. And, yeah, I kinda owe 115 00:04:51,245 --> 00:04:51,745 everything 116 00:04:52,045 --> 00:04:54,125 really to the Rio Grande and and Big 117 00:04:54,125 --> 00:04:55,504 Bend. Well, how did photography 118 00:04:56,125 --> 00:04:58,139 get started for you? That's kind of a 119 00:04:58,220 --> 00:05:00,139 crazy thing to do. You must have heard 120 00:05:00,139 --> 00:05:01,819 that's no way to make a living, and 121 00:05:01,819 --> 00:05:03,580 yet you did it anyway. What's up with 122 00:05:03,580 --> 00:05:05,740 that? Lucky for me, at the time, I 123 00:05:05,740 --> 00:05:07,340 was already not making a living. I don't 124 00:05:07,340 --> 00:05:08,939 know if you know this, but river guiding 125 00:05:08,939 --> 00:05:11,680 isn't exactly a, a very fruitful 126 00:05:12,425 --> 00:05:15,145 career path. You were already a pro. Yeah. 127 00:05:15,145 --> 00:05:16,904 Exactly. I was good I was good at 128 00:05:16,904 --> 00:05:18,824 being broke. I was actually an expert at 129 00:05:18,824 --> 00:05:21,464 being broke. And so when my, my curiosity 130 00:05:21,464 --> 00:05:23,384 with photography came up, it was really just 131 00:05:23,384 --> 00:05:25,545 me with with a pretty simple T Rebel 132 00:05:25,545 --> 00:05:28,350 Canon camera just going around figuring it out. 133 00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:30,189 But really, it wasn't until I was asked 134 00:05:30,189 --> 00:05:32,189 to be a part of a film with 135 00:05:32,189 --> 00:05:34,270 Ben called The River and the Wall that 136 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:36,290 I got an insight into the film world. 137 00:05:36,430 --> 00:05:38,430 And really, the biggest thing I got out 138 00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:40,030 of that trip I shouldn't say the biggest 139 00:05:40,030 --> 00:05:41,949 thing, but one of many important things I 140 00:05:41,949 --> 00:05:43,995 got out of that trip were that the 141 00:05:43,995 --> 00:05:45,055 people filming, 142 00:05:45,435 --> 00:05:47,055 you know, while they're talented 143 00:05:47,915 --> 00:05:49,134 and very experienced, 144 00:05:49,595 --> 00:05:51,514 I trust myself to learn a skill set 145 00:05:51,514 --> 00:05:53,194 and I trust myself to be just as 146 00:05:53,194 --> 00:05:55,595 hard working. And so I I really got 147 00:05:55,595 --> 00:05:58,154 motivated to figure out film after that whole 148 00:05:58,154 --> 00:06:01,169 experience. And, for a while, I was just 149 00:06:01,169 --> 00:06:04,050 piddling around, working for free, volunteering wherever I 150 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:06,289 could until eventually I got my first paid 151 00:06:06,289 --> 00:06:07,970 gig and did well enough in that that 152 00:06:07,970 --> 00:06:10,209 kept on evolving to some other gigs. And 153 00:06:10,209 --> 00:06:12,129 here we are now. It's been a really 154 00:06:12,129 --> 00:06:13,669 privileged and fortunate fortunate 155 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:16,605 path to this point. Yeah. Here we are 156 00:06:16,605 --> 00:06:18,365 now like you're an old man, but you're 157 00:06:18,365 --> 00:06:20,845 still just starting out, which is just I'm 158 00:06:20,845 --> 00:06:23,805 envious for that reason, that you've figured it 159 00:06:23,805 --> 00:06:25,884 out. You figured out what you love, and 160 00:06:25,884 --> 00:06:27,569 you figured out how to make it pay 161 00:06:27,889 --> 00:06:29,490 and to be able to stay in it 162 00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:32,129 and everything. And still, really, with the credits 163 00:06:32,129 --> 00:06:33,810 you have under your belt and you're just 164 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:36,210 getting started, it's it's gotta be it feels 165 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:38,370 like it should be very, very exciting. Yeah. 166 00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:40,389 I've gone through a lot of life experiences 167 00:06:40,995 --> 00:06:43,574 lately that have really made me reflect on 168 00:06:43,634 --> 00:06:46,035 truly how unique and special it is that 169 00:06:46,035 --> 00:06:47,314 I get to do what I do and 170 00:06:47,314 --> 00:06:48,915 I and I don't take that lightly. I 171 00:06:48,915 --> 00:06:50,514 don't mean to brag about it. I just 172 00:06:50,675 --> 00:06:52,435 I it's more to say how grateful I 173 00:06:52,435 --> 00:06:54,079 am for everything that I do. So I 174 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:55,539 wanted to talk a little bit more 175 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,000 about the film and, you know, for the 176 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,680 other films that you had done leading up 177 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,519 to this, it feels to me like this 178 00:07:01,519 --> 00:07:03,199 is kind of I mean, you're sharing the 179 00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:06,274 spotlight with just a couple of people here. 180 00:07:06,415 --> 00:07:07,935 Is this one of the first ones or 181 00:07:07,935 --> 00:07:10,095 the first one where you're really kind of 182 00:07:10,095 --> 00:07:12,175 taking the lead more than you had in 183 00:07:12,175 --> 00:07:14,834 previous films? Yeah. No. I've been 184 00:07:15,214 --> 00:07:17,214 fortunate enough to be in front of camera 185 00:07:17,214 --> 00:07:18,435 for a few other projects, 186 00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:20,779 It's always hard to see yourself in front 187 00:07:20,779 --> 00:07:21,519 of a camera 188 00:07:21,819 --> 00:07:24,699 and on a screen. And so it's while 189 00:07:24,699 --> 00:07:26,620 it's not my favorite thing per se, it 190 00:07:26,620 --> 00:07:29,439 definitely makes me reflect and and feel appreciative 191 00:07:29,579 --> 00:07:31,740 of of of being able to to play 192 00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:32,384 that role. 193 00:07:32,785 --> 00:07:34,625 I've done quite a bit of camera trapping 194 00:07:34,625 --> 00:07:36,064 in the past, quite a bit bit of 195 00:07:36,064 --> 00:07:38,064 cinematography in the past where I've taken lead 196 00:07:38,064 --> 00:07:40,865 on different scenes, different projects. And so being 197 00:07:41,025 --> 00:07:43,665 doing the actual work that you see on 198 00:07:43,665 --> 00:07:44,165 camera, 199 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,240 that's not necessarily new to me. In fact, 200 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,160 I would say I'm I'm very comfortable doing 201 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,680 the work itself. I have a whole lot 202 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,759 more experience doing the work than actually being 203 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:53,519 in front of camera and showing the work. 204 00:07:53,519 --> 00:07:56,879 But yeah. So Northern Jaguar Reserve, was that 205 00:07:56,879 --> 00:07:58,404 a new place to you when you started 206 00:07:58,404 --> 00:07:59,845 all of this, or had you been there 207 00:07:59,845 --> 00:08:00,345 before? 208 00:08:00,805 --> 00:08:02,404 It was a totally new place to me. 209 00:08:02,404 --> 00:08:04,404 We were lucky to have Ryan Allinger, who 210 00:08:04,404 --> 00:08:06,245 was part of the Fennifer team, and he 211 00:08:06,245 --> 00:08:08,164 had spent a lot of time down there 212 00:08:08,164 --> 00:08:09,305 with his wife, Prieta, 213 00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:11,540 in the past. And so he had a 214 00:08:11,540 --> 00:08:13,379 familiar knowledge of the place, and and he 215 00:08:13,379 --> 00:08:14,439 was super, super 216 00:08:14,740 --> 00:08:17,379 motivating in in us wanting to go down 217 00:08:17,379 --> 00:08:18,740 there and check it out. And so we 218 00:08:18,740 --> 00:08:21,080 had some background information from him, but 219 00:08:21,620 --> 00:08:23,625 being there for the first time, it is 220 00:08:23,704 --> 00:08:25,785 it's a reserve, but it's surrounded by these 221 00:08:25,785 --> 00:08:27,944 other ranches. And and once upon a time, 222 00:08:27,944 --> 00:08:30,105 it is a ranch itself. And one one 223 00:08:30,105 --> 00:08:32,985 of my first thoughts when I stepped foot 224 00:08:32,985 --> 00:08:34,585 on it was this must be one of 225 00:08:34,585 --> 00:08:35,884 the wildest ranches 226 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,559 I've ever stepped foot on. You know, you 227 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,480 you go on ranches out here in in 228 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:41,459 in The US, 229 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,759 and you feel like it's maybe not curated 230 00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:48,799 or manicured necessarily, but it just it there's 231 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:50,833 a level of of wilderness that's taken away 232 00:08:50,833 --> 00:08:51,100 from the human impact of just managing ranches 233 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:51,950 here in The US. There 234 00:08:55,575 --> 00:08:57,894 US. They're in the North Northern Jaguar Reserve 235 00:08:57,894 --> 00:09:00,535 and the surrounding ranches. It feels as wild 236 00:09:00,535 --> 00:09:02,535 as if it as if they weren't ranches, 237 00:09:02,535 --> 00:09:04,615 if that makes any sense. Yeah. You went 238 00:09:04,615 --> 00:09:06,555 through a lot of places to get there, 239 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:08,649 and you've seen an awful lot of cow 240 00:09:08,649 --> 00:09:10,990 burnt landscape, and I know you're 241 00:09:11,370 --> 00:09:13,289 a huge hiker and you've been everywhere in 242 00:09:13,289 --> 00:09:13,769 the, 243 00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:16,649 Southwest, all over Texas, Big Bend, all of 244 00:09:16,649 --> 00:09:19,370 that, so you know what the usual stuff 245 00:09:19,370 --> 00:09:21,850 looks like. And I imagine walking onto this 246 00:09:21,850 --> 00:09:22,350 reserve 247 00:09:22,704 --> 00:09:25,424 had an impact based on just comparison. Oh, 248 00:09:25,424 --> 00:09:27,745 a 100%. A 100%. Like I said, it 249 00:09:27,745 --> 00:09:29,504 it just felt so much more wild than 250 00:09:29,504 --> 00:09:32,704 any other human managed ranch I'd ever been 251 00:09:32,704 --> 00:09:35,664 on. There is a degree of danger might 252 00:09:35,664 --> 00:09:37,584 not be the right word, but a a 253 00:09:37,584 --> 00:09:39,179 degree of I'm vulnerable 254 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,779 here and and not because of another human, 255 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,820 but because this is real wilderness set that 256 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:48,120 most people, I would say, aren't just ready 257 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,360 to be out out in any given day. 258 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,665 And that excites me. As someone who loves 259 00:09:52,665 --> 00:09:54,585 being in those type of places, it's something 260 00:09:54,585 --> 00:09:57,165 I seek. I seek the wild spaces 261 00:09:57,625 --> 00:09:59,625 that you feel, you know? I feel like 262 00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:01,965 a lot of times nature and the outdoors, 263 00:10:02,184 --> 00:10:05,889 different levels, different degrees of wild, and they're 264 00:10:05,889 --> 00:10:06,549 all beneficial 265 00:10:07,330 --> 00:10:09,190 for some reason to somebody. 266 00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:11,970 But finding those places that really kinda make 267 00:10:11,970 --> 00:10:13,490 make you a little bit more perked up 268 00:10:13,490 --> 00:10:15,970 and alert, that that really excites me. Yeah. 269 00:10:15,970 --> 00:10:19,024 Doug Peacock's famous, I'll paraphrase, but he says 270 00:10:19,024 --> 00:10:21,585 it's not wilderness unless there's something out there 271 00:10:21,585 --> 00:10:23,044 that can eat you. Exactly. 272 00:10:23,664 --> 00:10:25,664 You're down there, you're there, and you have 273 00:10:25,664 --> 00:10:26,485 this monumental 274 00:10:26,865 --> 00:10:29,585 task before you. How much of what's on 275 00:10:29,585 --> 00:10:31,264 the film did you guys set out to 276 00:10:31,264 --> 00:10:33,750 do, and how much was, holy crap, did 277 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:35,929 we just do that? Our first initial plan 278 00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:38,809 was for Ryan Olinger, Ben Masters, and myself 279 00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:41,289 to head down there as the first initial 280 00:10:41,429 --> 00:10:41,929 convoy 281 00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:44,389 and really get an idea of what we 282 00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:46,414 think is possible and what we think, 283 00:10:46,715 --> 00:10:49,134 is not possible really. That's just as important. 284 00:10:49,754 --> 00:10:51,674 And we got the lay of the land 285 00:10:51,674 --> 00:10:53,995 working with the ranch hand, working with the 286 00:10:53,995 --> 00:10:55,375 researchers and the biologists, 287 00:10:56,235 --> 00:10:57,534 Gail, Lackey, Lackey, 288 00:10:58,075 --> 00:10:59,970 all these amazing human beings who have been 289 00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:01,509 on the reserve for a long time 290 00:11:01,809 --> 00:11:04,049 who, mind you, without their knowledge and without 291 00:11:04,049 --> 00:11:06,449 their expertise, none of what we did would 292 00:11:06,449 --> 00:11:08,230 have been possible. But we went down there 293 00:11:08,289 --> 00:11:10,370 first time and took about two to three 294 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:11,949 weeks to really kind of get a lay 295 00:11:11,949 --> 00:11:13,634 of the land. We set up a a 296 00:11:13,634 --> 00:11:15,875 few of the research camera traps, just kinda 297 00:11:15,875 --> 00:11:17,735 your typical Browning, Reconyx, 298 00:11:18,195 --> 00:11:20,514 things that you see used for research. And 299 00:11:20,514 --> 00:11:22,375 then we set up some of our more 300 00:11:22,595 --> 00:11:24,754 high end camera traps. We go back to 301 00:11:24,754 --> 00:11:26,514 The US after that, after that two or 302 00:11:26,514 --> 00:11:29,450 three week stint, and we really game plan 303 00:11:29,450 --> 00:11:32,090 on a storyline. Mind you, we've done jaguar, 304 00:11:32,170 --> 00:11:34,970 we've worked on a jaguar film before a 305 00:11:34,970 --> 00:11:37,529 shorter piece out in, in El Cielo, which 306 00:11:37,529 --> 00:11:39,529 is a cloud forest on the border state 307 00:11:39,529 --> 00:11:41,695 of Taino Litas with Texas. And so we 308 00:11:41,695 --> 00:11:43,375 we kind of had a a concept of 309 00:11:43,375 --> 00:11:46,735 what was possible there thinking that maybe the 310 00:11:46,735 --> 00:11:48,894 same sort of storyline could be possible or 311 00:11:48,894 --> 00:11:50,815 a similar storyline could be possible in the 312 00:11:50,815 --> 00:11:52,894 Northern Jaguar Reserve. When we got to the 313 00:11:52,894 --> 00:11:55,970 Northern Jaguar, we immediately realized how different a 314 00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:59,089 situation and how different of a story this 315 00:11:59,089 --> 00:12:01,429 was gonna have to be. Fast forward with 316 00:12:01,490 --> 00:12:03,169 kind of having a concept of what we 317 00:12:03,169 --> 00:12:05,730 want to capture, I started going back, I 318 00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:08,535 think, every six weeks for about two to 319 00:12:08,535 --> 00:12:10,375 three weeks at a time, and to get 320 00:12:10,375 --> 00:12:12,875 there is a journey. I fly from Texas, 321 00:12:12,934 --> 00:12:15,894 Dale, or Tucson and then make the six 322 00:12:15,894 --> 00:12:18,154 to eight hour drive to the closest village 323 00:12:18,215 --> 00:12:19,815 and then about a six to eight hour 324 00:12:19,815 --> 00:12:21,495 drive through mountain roads to get to the 325 00:12:21,495 --> 00:12:23,490 first camp. My camera traps are set up 326 00:12:23,490 --> 00:12:24,230 on the reserve 327 00:12:24,610 --> 00:12:27,250 at various locations. And so each location, give 328 00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:29,250 or take two or three hours of driving 329 00:12:29,250 --> 00:12:31,649 between each location and then hiking up to 330 00:12:31,649 --> 00:12:34,289 that location. And hiking can take anywhere between 331 00:12:34,289 --> 00:12:36,129 a few hours to a a full day. 332 00:12:36,129 --> 00:12:36,629 And 333 00:12:36,975 --> 00:12:39,214 the logistics of of just getting to these 334 00:12:39,214 --> 00:12:41,134 cameras, you know, we're talking a week's worth 335 00:12:41,134 --> 00:12:43,134 of work just to go see them, just 336 00:12:43,134 --> 00:12:44,495 to put hands on them, just put eyes 337 00:12:44,495 --> 00:12:45,554 on them. We 338 00:12:46,014 --> 00:12:47,954 end up not having a lot of success 339 00:12:48,095 --> 00:12:50,049 for the first few months. And 340 00:12:50,589 --> 00:12:52,769 granted, camera trap work is always pretty frustrating 341 00:12:52,829 --> 00:12:55,470 work. It's a lot of problem solving. It's 342 00:12:55,470 --> 00:12:57,789 a lot of fixing errors. Anything that can 343 00:12:57,789 --> 00:12:59,629 go wrong will go wrong. And it's it's 344 00:12:59,629 --> 00:13:02,049 really just staying on top of the maintenance, 345 00:13:02,110 --> 00:13:05,125 the more so staying committed to what we 346 00:13:05,125 --> 00:13:07,204 think is possible. On a day to day, 347 00:13:07,204 --> 00:13:08,804 like I said, we could be driving a 348 00:13:08,804 --> 00:13:10,345 few hours and then hiking 349 00:13:10,725 --> 00:13:12,725 a few hours, and then I could very 350 00:13:12,725 --> 00:13:14,904 well stay put at that same location 351 00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:17,410 for days on end just to make sure 352 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:19,410 that everything's working right, that I'm that it's 353 00:13:19,410 --> 00:13:21,250 working the way I wanna work, that the 354 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:23,889 angles are appropriately working at nighttime as well 355 00:13:23,889 --> 00:13:24,870 as during the daytime, 356 00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:27,250 that my lights are coming in at the 357 00:13:27,250 --> 00:13:28,929 right angle that I'm hoping they come in 358 00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:31,235 from, that the focal length is right. You 359 00:13:31,235 --> 00:13:32,055 know, this is 360 00:13:32,754 --> 00:13:35,555 guess and check on a very long scale. 361 00:13:35,555 --> 00:13:38,115 We have an ultimate goal, but really, all 362 00:13:38,115 --> 00:13:39,975 these little fine details 363 00:13:40,514 --> 00:13:42,355 take a lot of time to get just 364 00:13:42,355 --> 00:13:43,815 right. And we operate 365 00:13:44,169 --> 00:13:46,090 under that same sort of procedure for months 366 00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:48,090 on end until we start getting some real 367 00:13:48,090 --> 00:13:49,389 fruitful footage. 368 00:13:49,769 --> 00:13:52,809 And from there is where we got really 369 00:13:52,809 --> 00:13:55,370 creative. In the film, you made it pretty 370 00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:58,029 clear how hard you guys were struggling and 371 00:13:58,115 --> 00:13:59,875 I was gonna ask you, who's who's the 372 00:13:59,875 --> 00:14:03,154 biggest wildlife vandal of trail cameras in your 373 00:14:03,154 --> 00:14:05,554 experience? Who's the one that screws up the 374 00:14:05,554 --> 00:14:07,875 most of your stuff by finding the camera 375 00:14:07,875 --> 00:14:10,054 and playing with it? I have an idea, 376 00:14:10,115 --> 00:14:11,389 but but I wanted to hear what you 377 00:14:11,389 --> 00:14:14,289 think your favorite one is. By far, bears. 378 00:14:14,669 --> 00:14:16,209 Bears are the most curious, 379 00:14:16,750 --> 00:14:19,949 just most aggressive little rascals, and they'll get 380 00:14:19,949 --> 00:14:22,269 into just about anything. We we try to 381 00:14:22,269 --> 00:14:23,169 do a good job 382 00:14:23,549 --> 00:14:25,955 of really setting our cameras in a very 383 00:14:25,955 --> 00:14:28,455 strong way. And, man, I've seen bears 384 00:14:28,835 --> 00:14:31,575 completely knock over what what we would imagine 385 00:14:31,634 --> 00:14:33,955 to be just a a bulletproof setup, and 386 00:14:33,955 --> 00:14:34,195 it's, 387 00:14:34,835 --> 00:14:36,995 yeah, they'll they'll get into just about anything. 388 00:14:36,995 --> 00:14:38,995 Well, I wanted to ask that. It kinda 389 00:14:38,995 --> 00:14:39,894 brings a dramatic, 390 00:14:41,129 --> 00:14:43,289 flare to the whole thing because it's so 391 00:14:43,289 --> 00:14:44,409 hard to do what you do. And then 392 00:14:44,409 --> 00:14:46,889 you describe very eloquently how you need to 393 00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:48,970 just become part of the landscape. You gotta 394 00:14:48,970 --> 00:14:50,809 visit. You gotta stay a long time. You 395 00:14:50,809 --> 00:14:53,049 gotta research. You've gotta you gotta get a 396 00:14:53,049 --> 00:14:55,070 feel for places. Almost, I would imagine, 397 00:14:55,475 --> 00:14:57,154 I think it's gonna be tonight, and I 398 00:14:57,154 --> 00:14:59,634 think she's gonna be there. Or I think 399 00:14:59,634 --> 00:15:01,554 this or you know, I imagine you have 400 00:15:01,554 --> 00:15:02,995 to get to that level. And is that 401 00:15:02,995 --> 00:15:05,315 where the the risky thing the risky part 402 00:15:05,315 --> 00:15:07,235 comes in where you're just like, let's just 403 00:15:07,235 --> 00:15:08,835 go for it. I think I'm just this 404 00:15:08,835 --> 00:15:10,769 is the biggest hunch ever, but I know 405 00:15:10,769 --> 00:15:13,029 she's gonna be there. And that's exactly right. 406 00:15:13,250 --> 00:15:15,830 Just hearing you describe that makes me excited. 407 00:15:15,889 --> 00:15:17,809 Getting into the flow state of starting to 408 00:15:17,809 --> 00:15:20,850 understand pattern, starting to understand behavior of an 409 00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:21,750 of an individual. 410 00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:24,284 With this, it was jaguar. But with any 411 00:15:24,444 --> 00:15:26,845 any animal that we're camera trapping, it's not 412 00:15:26,845 --> 00:15:28,524 just setting up a camera, leaving and coming 413 00:15:28,524 --> 00:15:30,444 back and hoping for the best. It's doing 414 00:15:30,444 --> 00:15:31,884 the research on the front end and then 415 00:15:31,884 --> 00:15:35,004 understanding behavior on an individual level. And that 416 00:15:35,164 --> 00:15:37,884 when you nail the shot exactly the way 417 00:15:37,884 --> 00:15:39,985 you're intending to nail that shot, 418 00:15:40,289 --> 00:15:42,850 because you put in the time that could've 419 00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:45,269 taken weeks, could've taken months, could've taken years 420 00:15:45,649 --> 00:15:47,409 to get exactly what you thought it was 421 00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:49,330 that animal was gonna do at the time 422 00:15:49,330 --> 00:15:50,769 you thought it was gonna do it, yeah, 423 00:15:50,769 --> 00:15:52,610 it is one of the best feelings ever. 424 00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:55,089 Now you guys on the credits didn't do 425 00:15:55,089 --> 00:15:57,465 this alone, and no one ever does. Right? 426 00:15:57,465 --> 00:16:00,024 When I'm talking mainly here about the ranch 427 00:16:00,024 --> 00:16:03,144 hands and the former jaguar hunters, what's it 428 00:16:03,144 --> 00:16:05,144 like working with somebody who used to hunt 429 00:16:05,144 --> 00:16:05,644 jaguars? 430 00:16:06,024 --> 00:16:09,449 Yeah. Yeah. First, I do nothing in wildlife 431 00:16:09,449 --> 00:16:13,709 filmmaking and conservation work that isn't completely dependent 432 00:16:13,929 --> 00:16:16,089 on the work of the people doing the 433 00:16:16,089 --> 00:16:18,009 work on the ground, doing the work every 434 00:16:18,009 --> 00:16:20,589 day. The experts are biologists, the ranch hands, 435 00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:23,209 and this was no exception. Miguel, the ranch 436 00:16:23,209 --> 00:16:27,384 manager, head researcher there, Locolacky, Barayo, the these 437 00:16:27,384 --> 00:16:30,424 ranch hands, these guys who used to hunt 438 00:16:30,424 --> 00:16:33,705 jaguar on the reserve itself, everyone added such 439 00:16:33,705 --> 00:16:36,264 a level of insight that made everything that 440 00:16:36,264 --> 00:16:38,899 we did there possible. With that said, I 441 00:16:38,899 --> 00:16:41,139 don't get a lot of opportunity to see 442 00:16:41,139 --> 00:16:43,799 the actual human development side of conservation 443 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:46,899 from a cultural shift towards a back half 444 00:16:46,899 --> 00:16:49,460 of of of an an intended project. And 445 00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:51,299 what I mean by that is with a 446 00:16:51,299 --> 00:16:54,095 lot of stuff, you know, there there's a 447 00:16:54,095 --> 00:16:56,254 side a and side b of how you 448 00:16:56,254 --> 00:16:57,714 deal with whatever contribution 449 00:16:58,174 --> 00:16:59,634 issue or management 450 00:16:59,934 --> 00:17:02,834 strategy you may have. And in this instance, 451 00:17:03,694 --> 00:17:06,335 that shift from the people who actually used 452 00:17:06,335 --> 00:17:07,759 to hunt jaguars 453 00:17:08,059 --> 00:17:10,859 on the actual reserve itself to then become 454 00:17:10,859 --> 00:17:12,320 the protectors of the jaguars, 455 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:14,480 to then be the spokesman 456 00:17:14,779 --> 00:17:16,720 to the other neighboring ranches, 457 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:18,160 to invite them 458 00:17:18,539 --> 00:17:19,039 on 459 00:17:19,365 --> 00:17:22,005 conservation projects to do that same sort of 460 00:17:22,005 --> 00:17:23,704 protective work for these zaguars. 461 00:17:24,085 --> 00:17:27,125 It makes you realize how conservation work, along 462 00:17:27,125 --> 00:17:28,805 with any work, is a matter of just 463 00:17:28,805 --> 00:17:31,444 having empathy and understanding. And to be around 464 00:17:31,444 --> 00:17:33,444 these guys who who bust their ass and 465 00:17:33,444 --> 00:17:35,700 and work hard to do what they do 466 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:38,819 and to have no ego about to do 467 00:17:38,819 --> 00:17:40,980 what they do to versus now, I found 468 00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:42,759 it extremely, extremely 469 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:43,880 inspiring 470 00:17:44,180 --> 00:17:47,000 and gives a real humility to the work 471 00:17:47,059 --> 00:17:49,720 that is conservation because conservation only works 472 00:17:50,065 --> 00:17:52,224 if people buy in. And the most important 473 00:17:52,224 --> 00:17:54,384 people to buy in are those who might 474 00:17:54,384 --> 00:17:55,744 have been part of the problem in the 475 00:17:55,744 --> 00:17:56,945 past. And I don't wanna say part in 476 00:17:56,945 --> 00:17:58,065 fact, that was that was a bad phrase. 477 00:17:58,065 --> 00:17:59,505 I'm part of the problem, but just had 478 00:17:59,505 --> 00:18:01,365 different opposing views previously. 479 00:18:01,825 --> 00:18:03,845 Yeah. They're incredible. And these guys 480 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:05,680 changed their mindset 481 00:18:06,059 --> 00:18:08,000 of what they think of jaguars. 482 00:18:08,380 --> 00:18:10,700 But by all means, like, they're still ranchers 483 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,099 in Northern Mexico. Every sense, every feeling you 484 00:18:13,099 --> 00:18:15,259 get from them is still true to who 485 00:18:15,259 --> 00:18:17,224 they are. It's it's a vaquero 486 00:18:18,005 --> 00:18:19,144 in in in that Northern 487 00:18:19,525 --> 00:18:20,904 ranching world that 488 00:18:21,525 --> 00:18:23,765 that that lifestyle and that feeling you get 489 00:18:23,765 --> 00:18:25,525 from them is is all the same. They've 490 00:18:25,525 --> 00:18:27,204 just had a change of heart is all. 491 00:18:27,204 --> 00:18:28,964 And I think that's super important because it's 492 00:18:28,964 --> 00:18:31,190 easy to write people off when they 493 00:18:31,730 --> 00:18:34,210 may seem what you're not familiar or agreeable 494 00:18:34,210 --> 00:18:36,130 with. Really, it's just a it's just a 495 00:18:36,130 --> 00:18:39,190 matter of of having empathy. What about surrounding 496 00:18:39,329 --> 00:18:41,490 communities? I've talked to a good number of, 497 00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:46,474 JIWAR activists and biologists and Chris Tompkins and 498 00:18:46,474 --> 00:18:49,355 and Yeah. And about what they're trying to 499 00:18:49,355 --> 00:18:52,794 do is mostly community work, community outreach and 500 00:18:52,794 --> 00:18:53,294 education, 501 00:18:53,595 --> 00:18:54,335 and also 502 00:18:54,794 --> 00:18:58,154 showing the money. Like, your economy is based 503 00:18:58,154 --> 00:18:58,554 on this 504 00:18:59,259 --> 00:19:00,960 Exactly. Which isn't good for the Jaguars, 505 00:19:01,419 --> 00:19:03,660 but we will be there for you and 506 00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:05,839 help you with the economy and the switch. 507 00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:08,299 And it's just amazing how they get that 508 00:19:08,299 --> 00:19:08,799 accomplished 509 00:19:09,179 --> 00:19:11,419 from people who have such set views about 510 00:19:11,419 --> 00:19:13,500 things. Oh, you got it. You're you're you're 511 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:15,234 getting it right on. You know, it's I 512 00:19:15,234 --> 00:19:16,934 think it goes back to having that empathy, 513 00:19:17,154 --> 00:19:19,875 right? Understanding that this is that there are 514 00:19:19,875 --> 00:19:21,894 certain things that it that affect 515 00:19:22,274 --> 00:19:22,855 a livelihood 516 00:19:23,394 --> 00:19:25,394 and certain realities that we do need to 517 00:19:25,394 --> 00:19:26,615 face. And 518 00:19:27,394 --> 00:19:28,829 the economics behind it is 519 00:19:29,390 --> 00:19:30,509 one of them. Nino is a program that 520 00:19:30,509 --> 00:19:33,569 the Northern Jaguar Reserve is working with alongside 521 00:19:33,630 --> 00:19:36,750 these neighboring ranches where they give prize money 522 00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:39,730 for documentation of various cats, not just jaguars, 523 00:19:40,190 --> 00:19:41,825 all cats. And there's 524 00:19:42,284 --> 00:19:43,904 a different scaling system 525 00:19:44,204 --> 00:19:45,024 on how much 526 00:19:45,325 --> 00:19:47,424 they make per photo or per individual. 527 00:19:47,884 --> 00:19:50,144 And it has had 528 00:19:50,605 --> 00:19:52,704 an immense impact on 529 00:19:53,164 --> 00:19:55,884 people willing, right, just willing to hear what 530 00:19:55,884 --> 00:19:56,865 they have to say 531 00:19:57,539 --> 00:19:59,779 as far as the importance of what they're 532 00:19:59,779 --> 00:20:02,019 doing with the Jaguar Reserve. It seems so 533 00:20:02,019 --> 00:20:03,480 simple, but it's 534 00:20:03,860 --> 00:20:04,759 so profoundly 535 00:20:05,059 --> 00:20:05,559 unique 536 00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:09,059 in a lot of different conservation work where 537 00:20:09,059 --> 00:20:10,825 you're putting your your money where your mouth 538 00:20:10,825 --> 00:20:12,825 is and and reckoning with the economics of 539 00:20:12,825 --> 00:20:14,825 it all, which is huge. Alright. I wanna 540 00:20:14,825 --> 00:20:15,325 hear 541 00:20:15,704 --> 00:20:17,964 what you learned about jaguars 542 00:20:18,265 --> 00:20:19,244 that you 543 00:20:19,625 --> 00:20:21,404 didn't know before this project. 544 00:20:21,910 --> 00:20:23,750 You know, I mentioned earlier that I had 545 00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:26,390 spent some time with jaguars in Tamaulipas in 546 00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:28,410 El Cielo. And the the 547 00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:30,970 level of interaction 548 00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:34,150 a human to jaguar interaction in El Cielo, 549 00:20:34,150 --> 00:20:34,809 in Tamaulipas 550 00:20:35,644 --> 00:20:38,704 compared to that in the Northern Jaguar Reserve, 551 00:20:38,845 --> 00:20:41,325 is night and day. In El Cielo, their 552 00:20:41,325 --> 00:20:44,784 issues are literally in town. They're they have 553 00:20:44,924 --> 00:20:47,085 pets that if they're not guarded well enough, 554 00:20:47,085 --> 00:20:49,230 they're not put away well enough, that they 555 00:20:49,230 --> 00:20:51,250 may be liable to being 556 00:20:51,549 --> 00:20:52,769 preyed on by jaguars. 557 00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:54,289 They have 558 00:20:54,670 --> 00:20:55,170 sightings 559 00:20:55,549 --> 00:20:59,809 constantly by people. They have a closer vicinity, 560 00:21:00,109 --> 00:21:02,049 and that's due to a lot of variables. 561 00:21:02,375 --> 00:21:04,615 But they have incorporated the jaguar as one 562 00:21:04,615 --> 00:21:07,575 of their leading tourist attractions as well. They 563 00:21:07,575 --> 00:21:10,695 really champion the fact that they live with 564 00:21:10,695 --> 00:21:12,634 jaguars there. Compared to 565 00:21:13,095 --> 00:21:16,055 the reserve where we know jaguars are there, 566 00:21:16,055 --> 00:21:17,994 but the sightings are few and far between. 567 00:21:18,140 --> 00:21:19,600 They have such a big 568 00:21:20,140 --> 00:21:22,460 territory, and they have these deep canyons where 569 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:23,440 they can get lost 570 00:21:23,820 --> 00:21:26,880 that the actual human interaction with the jaguars 571 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:29,500 is pretty limited. And I was pretty I 572 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:31,660 shouldn't say surprised, but I was I was 573 00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:33,805 caught off guard by the fact that we 574 00:21:33,805 --> 00:21:37,725 have this amazing reserve doing great work with 575 00:21:37,725 --> 00:21:40,305 a pretty limited amount of human jaguar interaction. 576 00:21:40,605 --> 00:21:43,424 It's the the fact that the reserve 577 00:21:43,725 --> 00:21:46,365 plays a role in, let's call it a 578 00:21:46,365 --> 00:21:48,384 a a corridor or a highway system 579 00:21:48,690 --> 00:21:49,190 between 580 00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:51,649 South Of the Reserve and North Of Reserve, 581 00:21:51,649 --> 00:21:54,710 which encompasses The US as well. How important 582 00:21:54,769 --> 00:21:57,009 that is and the fact that the pieces 583 00:21:57,009 --> 00:21:59,569 around the reserve still feel so wild is 584 00:21:59,569 --> 00:22:01,889 what makes it that much more impactful and 585 00:22:01,889 --> 00:22:03,190 that much more important 586 00:22:03,585 --> 00:22:05,444 compared to El Cielo and Tamaulipas 587 00:22:05,744 --> 00:22:06,244 where 588 00:22:06,625 --> 00:22:08,964 while their interactions are pretty 589 00:22:09,265 --> 00:22:11,984 embedded to their life on a a sheer 590 00:22:11,984 --> 00:22:13,984 volume level, the reality is is they have 591 00:22:13,984 --> 00:22:15,845 to cover a 100 miles 592 00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:17,779 of human population 593 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:20,720 corridors that would make it nearly impossible to 594 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,380 cross highways and roads and and buildings 595 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:25,599 that they're really kinda cut off. And when 596 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:26,799 I say cut off, I mean cut off 597 00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:29,474 from the North, from The US. And understanding 598 00:22:29,855 --> 00:22:32,595 how it's not just about where they're located, 599 00:22:32,894 --> 00:22:35,855 but how they're connected to everything else. Maybe 600 00:22:35,855 --> 00:22:38,095 I didn't learn that, but more I acknowledge 601 00:22:38,095 --> 00:22:40,595 the importance of that being on the reserve. 602 00:22:40,654 --> 00:22:42,255 I think the long running joke is people 603 00:22:42,255 --> 00:22:45,089 who study, like, mountain lions, and they've studied 604 00:22:45,089 --> 00:22:47,009 them professionally and went to school, everything, and 605 00:22:47,009 --> 00:22:48,609 they haven't seen one in the wild yet. 606 00:22:48,609 --> 00:22:50,289 And then all these people on the Internet 607 00:22:50,289 --> 00:22:53,170 just post pictures of mountain lions really get 608 00:22:53,170 --> 00:22:53,910 their goats. 609 00:22:54,289 --> 00:22:56,049 Oh, yeah. I mean oh, it get it 610 00:22:56,049 --> 00:22:58,275 gets me going sometime. I mean, I've seen 611 00:22:58,355 --> 00:23:00,434 I've filled mountain lions. I've I've been around 612 00:23:00,434 --> 00:23:02,515 mountain lions. It is very hard to see 613 00:23:02,515 --> 00:23:05,095 a mountain lion nonetheless. And when people just 614 00:23:05,154 --> 00:23:07,475 casually post up a a cat that just 615 00:23:07,475 --> 00:23:09,494 cross around it, I'm like, oh my gosh. 616 00:23:09,789 --> 00:23:13,150 It takes me months, months of day and 617 00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:14,930 day out work to even get us a 618 00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:16,829 a glance at one. Much less They don't 619 00:23:16,829 --> 00:23:19,309 even they don't know. They don't know. Oh 620 00:23:19,309 --> 00:23:21,470 my gosh. They really don't know. So I've 621 00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:23,230 been telling that little joke for a long, 622 00:23:23,230 --> 00:23:24,994 long time, but I finally got the real 623 00:23:24,994 --> 00:23:27,015 life in in real time reaction 624 00:23:27,554 --> 00:23:28,855 of someone who understands 625 00:23:29,315 --> 00:23:29,815 exactly 626 00:23:30,274 --> 00:23:33,554 how frustrating that is. Oh, man. It really 627 00:23:33,554 --> 00:23:36,054 is. Yeah. It's Yeah. It's always 628 00:23:36,569 --> 00:23:39,210 not offensive, but also pretty frustrating whenever people 629 00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:40,809 are like, oh, why didn't you just post 630 00:23:40,809 --> 00:23:42,250 up over here? This is where I saw 631 00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:44,569 one two days ago. Went well, because I'm 632 00:23:44,569 --> 00:23:45,390 not a psychic. 633 00:23:45,929 --> 00:23:48,009 Yeah. I like it when, in the picture, 634 00:23:48,009 --> 00:23:49,950 you can see their eyes are just undulating, 635 00:23:50,775 --> 00:23:53,095 meaning that the person just turned around and 636 00:23:53,095 --> 00:23:55,095 saved his own life by doing so because 637 00:23:55,095 --> 00:23:57,174 that cat was taking a closer look at 638 00:23:57,174 --> 00:23:57,994 him. Exactly. 639 00:23:58,295 --> 00:23:58,795 Exactly. 640 00:23:59,174 --> 00:24:01,494 Exactly. Yeah. I'm glad that people have those 641 00:24:01,494 --> 00:24:03,335 experiences, and I'm sure that the people who 642 00:24:03,335 --> 00:24:05,839 have those experiences have a much bigger, stronger 643 00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:08,799 appreciation for nature than the day before. I'm 644 00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:11,119 sure. I think it's hard to to come 645 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,839 across a big cat and not feel feel 646 00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:16,720 a sense of of of vulnerability and and 647 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,559 and and a new sense of of of 648 00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,274 appreciation and respect. I saw a preteen 649 00:24:21,654 --> 00:24:24,315 mountain lion in person with a rescue. 650 00:24:24,615 --> 00:24:25,734 I can't remember. I think it was in 651 00:24:25,734 --> 00:24:27,494 Arizona or some place, and they were going 652 00:24:27,494 --> 00:24:29,575 around and just had them there for education. 653 00:24:29,575 --> 00:24:31,734 And now there's something about being really, really 654 00:24:31,734 --> 00:24:33,894 close to something that big and wild and 655 00:24:33,894 --> 00:24:35,514 powerful, a predator especially 656 00:24:35,869 --> 00:24:37,230 No, man. I don't know how to, to 657 00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:39,549 this day, even describe it. I've been lucky 658 00:24:39,549 --> 00:24:41,869 enough to have a few different species and 659 00:24:41,869 --> 00:24:44,769 individual cats look right at me, and and 660 00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:47,150 and they know that I know that we're 661 00:24:47,150 --> 00:24:49,315 looking at each other. And Yeah. Oh, yeah. 662 00:24:49,315 --> 00:24:51,475 When they when they observe you, you know 663 00:24:51,475 --> 00:24:54,674 you're yeah. That's whole that's totally different. Yeah. 664 00:24:54,674 --> 00:24:57,174 It's it feels spiritual. It feels 665 00:24:57,475 --> 00:25:00,434 it feels damn scary. It feels exciting. It 666 00:25:00,434 --> 00:25:02,639 feels, you know, that part of me is 667 00:25:02,639 --> 00:25:04,000 like, oh, I think I'm having a real 668 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,319 connection with this cat. Meanwhile, the cat's like, 669 00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:08,399 I wonder if I could take him down 670 00:25:08,399 --> 00:25:10,339 or not. But, yeah, no. There's 671 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,839 there is a a mystery whenever that kinda 672 00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:16,099 locked eye experience happens. 673 00:25:16,694 --> 00:25:17,974 It it it it's happened few or far 674 00:25:17,974 --> 00:25:20,454 between, but it has happened, and it's, man, 675 00:25:20,454 --> 00:25:22,214 it's it's it's something else. I'm sure the 676 00:25:22,214 --> 00:25:23,734 cats don't go back to the little cat 677 00:25:23,734 --> 00:25:25,335 bar and tell all their buddies, man, I 678 00:25:25,335 --> 00:25:27,095 came so close to a human today, you 679 00:25:27,095 --> 00:25:29,335 guys. He smelled like crap. Yeah. I was 680 00:25:29,335 --> 00:25:32,154 gonna eat him, but no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 681 00:25:32,269 --> 00:25:34,829 Give me a peck. So all alone, you're 682 00:25:34,829 --> 00:25:36,589 out in a place that it took days 683 00:25:36,589 --> 00:25:38,909 to get to or and you just have 684 00:25:38,909 --> 00:25:41,069 a time to think. Everything's done, and you're 685 00:25:41,069 --> 00:25:42,750 waiting or you gotta sleep, but you can't 686 00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:44,990 sleep, and you're just going through thoughts. Something 687 00:25:44,990 --> 00:25:46,990 really profound that happened that day or that 688 00:25:46,990 --> 00:25:49,365 week, and you wish everybody knew about it. 689 00:25:49,365 --> 00:25:51,605 You wish you could get that feeling across 690 00:25:51,605 --> 00:25:54,644 somehow, an insight that you gained from something 691 00:25:54,644 --> 00:25:57,444 very profound happening out there. Yeah. You know, 692 00:25:57,444 --> 00:25:58,964 I don't I don't think this is unique 693 00:25:58,964 --> 00:26:00,565 to hear, but I'm I I don't have 694 00:26:00,565 --> 00:26:03,609 this feeling too often. Often. But understanding that 695 00:26:03,829 --> 00:26:06,869 we are part of this wild world, and 696 00:26:06,869 --> 00:26:09,210 we get to be as wild as we 697 00:26:09,429 --> 00:26:12,069 intend to be. And it can be super 698 00:26:12,069 --> 00:26:14,230 super intimidating at first. It can be extremely 699 00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:16,470 uncomfortable at first. But we are part of 700 00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:18,474 all this. And when you're and and I 701 00:26:18,474 --> 00:26:20,075 remember I was on on the side of 702 00:26:20,075 --> 00:26:21,835 the river. I'd just come down from checking 703 00:26:21,835 --> 00:26:23,914 some camera traps, and I'd I'd had some 704 00:26:23,914 --> 00:26:26,474 time to myself. I usually was rolling around 705 00:26:26,474 --> 00:26:28,234 the reserve with a ranch hand or two. 706 00:26:28,234 --> 00:26:30,075 And, you know, aft after a couple weeks 707 00:26:30,075 --> 00:26:31,869 together, you always tend to kind of go 708 00:26:31,869 --> 00:26:33,549 off and spend some time on your own 709 00:26:33,549 --> 00:26:35,490 after a long day. And so, 710 00:26:35,789 --> 00:26:37,089 yeah, I remember 711 00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:37,970 reflecting 712 00:26:38,269 --> 00:26:40,269 on we get to be as wild as 713 00:26:40,269 --> 00:26:42,670 we want to be and it's hard work, 714 00:26:42,670 --> 00:26:44,210 it's intimidating, but 715 00:26:44,634 --> 00:26:46,414 it's within everyone's capability. 716 00:26:47,275 --> 00:26:49,434 The spectrum of of how wild it is 717 00:26:49,434 --> 00:26:51,835 for some people or or how much work 718 00:26:51,835 --> 00:26:53,115 it would take to do so, you know, 719 00:26:53,115 --> 00:26:53,855 that that's 720 00:26:54,234 --> 00:26:56,414 the variable in that. That's different for everybody. 721 00:26:56,634 --> 00:26:59,109 But, it's in us. It's in everybody. Yeah. 722 00:26:59,109 --> 00:27:00,630 I I I think we we tend to 723 00:27:00,630 --> 00:27:02,490 lose sight in that with all our comforts. 724 00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:04,069 It's easy too. I know I do. But 725 00:27:04,150 --> 00:27:06,630 yeah. Yeah. So getting people out, like, I 726 00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:08,309 wish I could bottle this and bring it 727 00:27:08,309 --> 00:27:10,230 to everybody or make them come out here 728 00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:12,650 and grab their bottle of wild themselves. 729 00:27:13,109 --> 00:27:15,215 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've had many moments like 730 00:27:15,215 --> 00:27:16,975 that out there where it's just like, man, 731 00:27:16,975 --> 00:27:18,815 I wish I could just make everyone feel 732 00:27:18,815 --> 00:27:21,295 what I'm feeling right now out here with 733 00:27:21,295 --> 00:27:22,115 this experience. 734 00:27:22,495 --> 00:27:24,174 You're gonna have a blast looking back on 735 00:27:24,174 --> 00:27:26,015 what you're doing right now in the next, 736 00:27:26,335 --> 00:27:28,369 you know, twenty years or so. 737 00:27:28,670 --> 00:27:30,990 Did I really do that? Yeah. You're being 738 00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:33,630 seen and appreciated, and you are part of 739 00:27:33,630 --> 00:27:34,849 the story of 740 00:27:35,230 --> 00:27:37,549 what's to come for Jaguars in a very, 741 00:27:37,549 --> 00:27:39,390 very big way because of the work that 742 00:27:39,390 --> 00:27:42,085 you're doing directly. But what do you think 743 00:27:42,085 --> 00:27:44,164 outside of the work that you're doing needs 744 00:27:44,164 --> 00:27:44,825 to happen, 745 00:27:45,125 --> 00:27:48,085 should happen, or is happening? Maybe there's some 746 00:27:48,085 --> 00:27:49,544 things that you know about, 747 00:27:49,924 --> 00:27:51,464 jaguars and their future. 748 00:27:52,005 --> 00:27:52,404 Maybe, 749 00:27:53,044 --> 00:27:55,044 more of them getting from the Northern Jaguar 750 00:27:55,044 --> 00:27:57,990 Reserve up to Cuenca Los Hojos and and 751 00:27:57,990 --> 00:28:00,309 some New Mexico and Arizona. What what's it 752 00:28:00,309 --> 00:28:02,230 look like out there Yeah. For you in 753 00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:04,549 that regard? I mean, you're you're essentially stating 754 00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:07,029 everything as far as my knowledge goes that 755 00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:09,450 there there are more and more sightings happening, 756 00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:12,195 and there is you know, there's 757 00:28:12,734 --> 00:28:14,734 a surprising amount of entities doing a lot 758 00:28:14,734 --> 00:28:16,255 of a lot of good work. I appreciate 759 00:28:16,255 --> 00:28:18,414 your compliments of me being seen and me 760 00:28:18,414 --> 00:28:19,555 being part of the story. 761 00:28:19,934 --> 00:28:22,335 But really, there's there's I played a a 762 00:28:22,335 --> 00:28:25,119 small role in a very relative small amount 763 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,200 of time compared to people I mean, you 764 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,519 mentioned Turtle earlier. I've never met her in 765 00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:31,759 life, but I've heard about her for years 766 00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:34,000 now. She's a living legend. There's people who 767 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,920 have been doing work out of Tucson on 768 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,599 the border and there's a there's a lot 769 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:39,200 of these entities that are putting a lot 770 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,825 of effort in and it's starting to be 771 00:28:40,825 --> 00:28:42,744 seen just like you've seen. There's there's sightings 772 00:28:42,744 --> 00:28:44,904 in good places as well. It's all really 773 00:28:44,904 --> 00:28:47,224 exciting. It's all really, really exciting. So I 774 00:28:47,224 --> 00:28:49,865 ask everybody, pretty much everybody, when they have 775 00:28:49,865 --> 00:28:52,024 things that I can imagine listeners going, wow. 776 00:28:52,024 --> 00:28:53,065 I wonder what it'd be like to be 777 00:28:53,065 --> 00:28:54,880 him, to do what he does. And I 778 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,799 love the the people that have the most 779 00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:58,640 interesting jobs in the world, there doesn't seem 780 00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,940 to be any formula 781 00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:02,559 whatsoever for them arriving at where they are 782 00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:04,640 today. You know? Like, oh, I went to 783 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,000 school and I did this, and then I 784 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,759 got my it never seems to work out 785 00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:09,554 that way. And I I get the picture. 786 00:29:09,554 --> 00:29:11,474 It didn't work it out exactly that way 787 00:29:11,474 --> 00:29:13,554 for you. But Yeah. But is there any 788 00:29:13,554 --> 00:29:15,794 kind of a formula you can have for, 789 00:29:15,794 --> 00:29:17,474 I'm just gonna go for what I wanna 790 00:29:17,474 --> 00:29:19,474 do, which you did and you're doing Yeah. 791 00:29:19,474 --> 00:29:22,140 Yeah. And and screw everything else. Screw how 792 00:29:22,140 --> 00:29:23,980 hard it is. Screw everything. I have to 793 00:29:23,980 --> 00:29:26,059 do this. This is my thing. What else 794 00:29:26,059 --> 00:29:28,539 would you tell somebody who's thinking about, I 795 00:29:28,539 --> 00:29:30,779 I think this sounds hard, but it sounds 796 00:29:30,779 --> 00:29:32,619 rewarding. What do I do? I think well, 797 00:29:32,619 --> 00:29:34,779 I I think asking yourself, are you willing 798 00:29:34,779 --> 00:29:36,934 to do this for the sake of just 799 00:29:36,934 --> 00:29:38,295 doing it? Are you willing to do it 800 00:29:38,295 --> 00:29:39,734 for no money? Are do you get a 801 00:29:39,734 --> 00:29:42,375 sense of satisfaction and accomplishment from just the 802 00:29:42,375 --> 00:29:43,654 fact that you get to do it? And 803 00:29:43,734 --> 00:29:45,095 but you have to an you have to 804 00:29:45,095 --> 00:29:47,575 answer that very honestly. Because if there's a 805 00:29:47,575 --> 00:29:49,115 slightest amount of hesitation, 806 00:29:49,650 --> 00:29:52,309 then more times than not, in in anything, 807 00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:53,890 you know, I I do I do think 808 00:29:53,890 --> 00:29:55,970 that you'll end up finding a reason why 809 00:29:55,970 --> 00:29:58,130 it can't or won't work out. But if 810 00:29:58,130 --> 00:30:00,049 the answer is yes, I think the path 811 00:30:00,049 --> 00:30:01,730 really works out however it's supposed to work 812 00:30:01,730 --> 00:30:03,490 out for you. Yeah. We gotta make more 813 00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:05,774 of you. We need thousands and thousands more 814 00:30:05,774 --> 00:30:07,634 Austins, Stan, and and and, 815 00:30:08,255 --> 00:30:10,174 everybody out there willing to tell stories in 816 00:30:10,174 --> 00:30:12,654 whatever format and whatever way they choose to 817 00:30:12,654 --> 00:30:14,994 do it because, you know, this is unfortunately, 818 00:30:15,375 --> 00:30:17,634 this is where everybody's getting all their information 819 00:30:17,774 --> 00:30:18,755 now. It's not firsthand 820 00:30:19,130 --> 00:30:21,769 experience for the vast majority of humans anymore. 821 00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:23,450 Yeah. If we're gonna get any of them 822 00:30:23,450 --> 00:30:26,410 out there to become new speakers for the 823 00:30:26,410 --> 00:30:27,369 wild, then, 824 00:30:27,930 --> 00:30:30,250 then you guys are very, very necessary. Oh, 825 00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:31,930 I appreciate that. I, you know, I I 826 00:30:31,930 --> 00:30:33,015 don't think it takes 827 00:30:33,494 --> 00:30:35,494 a a massive amount of, 828 00:30:36,055 --> 00:30:38,214 motivation or inspiration. I think people, more than 829 00:30:38,214 --> 00:30:40,535 anything, just need opportunity and chance. I think 830 00:30:40,535 --> 00:30:41,894 there's a lot of people out there willing 831 00:30:41,894 --> 00:30:44,134 to work hard, just not everyone has gets 832 00:30:44,134 --> 00:30:46,214 a chance or or knows that there is 833 00:30:46,214 --> 00:30:48,160 a chance. I sure as heck didn't know 834 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,480 that's any of this was possible. Yeah. Yeah. 835 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,840 Are there are there any things that you 836 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,320 guys have talked about or are working on 837 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,880 that where you were inspired to, like, wow, 838 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,480 we gotta make this easier for other people 839 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,240 because this was not easy all the time 840 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,484 for us. Like, Fin and First, someday in 841 00:31:02,484 --> 00:31:04,085 the future, you're gonna have, like, maybe some 842 00:31:04,085 --> 00:31:05,644 kind of a program where you take peep 843 00:31:05,765 --> 00:31:07,605 kids on and show them that it's a 844 00:31:07,605 --> 00:31:09,125 little bit easier than what it was for 845 00:31:09,125 --> 00:31:11,045 you? Yeah. You know, that that'd be such 846 00:31:11,045 --> 00:31:12,724 a good idea. There's nothing that we've been 847 00:31:12,724 --> 00:31:14,579 putting in the books or or working on 848 00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:17,940 per se. But by all means, we're more 849 00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:20,419 and more everyone on an individuals, not just 850 00:31:20,419 --> 00:31:22,339 as a team, but at on individual from 851 00:31:22,339 --> 00:31:24,099 Ben to Ryan to Thrash to Sam to 852 00:31:24,099 --> 00:31:26,019 everyone with Nina, the editor, the people who 853 00:31:26,019 --> 00:31:28,875 are just involved with FINRA. Everyone has done 854 00:31:28,875 --> 00:31:29,994 their part in trying to reach out and 855 00:31:29,994 --> 00:31:32,394 help out others doing the same type of 856 00:31:32,394 --> 00:31:33,994 work for the sake of helping. And I 857 00:31:33,994 --> 00:31:35,835 think we'll start there, but I I think 858 00:31:35,835 --> 00:31:37,595 you're on to something. If only you guys 859 00:31:37,595 --> 00:31:39,355 weren't so damn busy. Right? I mean, I 860 00:31:39,355 --> 00:31:41,035 hear Ryan in my head right now. He's 861 00:31:41,035 --> 00:31:43,369 like, well, yeah. He very politely said in 862 00:31:43,369 --> 00:31:44,410 in some part of the interview, 863 00:31:45,049 --> 00:31:47,769 I brought some crazy great idea up. Yeah. 864 00:31:47,769 --> 00:31:49,609 That'd be great if we had the time. 865 00:31:49,609 --> 00:31:51,849 We're super super or, you know, the science 866 00:31:51,849 --> 00:31:52,349 communicators. 867 00:31:52,650 --> 00:31:55,289 Getting a scientist to communicate outside of all 868 00:31:55,289 --> 00:31:56,744 the hard work it takes to do their 869 00:31:56,744 --> 00:31:58,744 job in the first place is something you 870 00:31:58,744 --> 00:32:00,825 can only really let them do choose to 871 00:32:00,825 --> 00:32:03,224 do, you know, because you gotta lay down 872 00:32:03,224 --> 00:32:05,224 sometime. Oh my gosh. And, you know, and 873 00:32:05,224 --> 00:32:07,884 these being around all these these scientists, 874 00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:09,019 they're 875 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,019 some of the most dedicated 876 00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:13,240 people. Like, they need a break. And, like, 877 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,599 when do they have time to tell their 878 00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,759 own story? Because they're just busy working. Yeah. 879 00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:18,680 It's always I I I do a good 880 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,200 good bit with or have been doing a 881 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,180 good bit with Cornell, 882 00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:24,654 with their ornephology lab. And and the people 883 00:32:24,954 --> 00:32:26,794 that I'm working with more often than not 884 00:32:26,794 --> 00:32:28,734 are just some of the more most dedicated, 885 00:32:29,434 --> 00:32:31,755 inspiring people. They just and they're lovely. You 886 00:32:31,755 --> 00:32:33,994 know? They they they can speak well. They 887 00:32:33,994 --> 00:32:35,835 just, have a lot on their plate. That's 888 00:32:35,835 --> 00:32:37,835 how I see this podcast in in a 889 00:32:37,835 --> 00:32:39,720 lot of ways. It's just it doesn't take 890 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,640 much to sit down, and then you've got 891 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,119 somebody promoting you and your work and all 892 00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,039 of that for a very little for little 893 00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:48,599 input work wise. So And then I how 894 00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:50,279 can we make a big machine out of 895 00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:51,960 this? Because there's so many people to talk 896 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,884 to. There's so many people to 897 00:32:55,171 --> 00:32:57,384 that that have stories to tell. And kudos 898 00:32:57,384 --> 00:32:58,345 to y'all. You know, I went and to 899 00:32:58,345 --> 00:33:00,204 you, I I, you know, admittedly, 900 00:33:00,585 --> 00:33:02,664 I started listening to the podcast when Ryan 901 00:33:02,664 --> 00:33:04,265 came on, and then I started going back 902 00:33:04,265 --> 00:33:06,424 in those archives and listening to others. And 903 00:33:06,424 --> 00:33:08,345 and you guys do a great job with 904 00:33:08,345 --> 00:33:10,659 with not only talking to the people doing 905 00:33:10,659 --> 00:33:13,700 the work, but having a spread of variety. 906 00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:15,299 And I think that's important. I think people 907 00:33:15,299 --> 00:33:16,599 can get lost 908 00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:17,619 in, 909 00:33:18,339 --> 00:33:20,500 the same conversation over and over and over, 910 00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,519 right? Which I think we've all heard. 911 00:33:23,035 --> 00:33:24,714 But you guys do an incredible job of 912 00:33:24,714 --> 00:33:26,474 of bringing that variety and and and and 913 00:33:26,474 --> 00:33:28,335 making sure you guys are staying on top 914 00:33:28,474 --> 00:33:29,115 of different 915 00:33:29,434 --> 00:33:32,075 the different things happening now. Thank you. Yeah. 916 00:33:32,075 --> 00:33:32,555 Yeah. It's 917 00:33:33,275 --> 00:33:36,009 but it's just fun. It's just curiosity. Cool. 918 00:33:36,009 --> 00:33:38,330 Thanks for spending all this time today. Yeah. 919 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:40,509 No worries. Thanks for listening to the Rewilding 920 00:33:40,570 --> 00:33:41,390 Earth podcast. 921 00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:43,950 We do what we do because of you. 922 00:33:44,170 --> 00:33:46,410 This podcast is supported by listeners like you 923 00:33:46,410 --> 00:33:48,509 who long to live in a wilder world. 924 00:33:48,984 --> 00:33:51,464 Please consider donating at rewilding.org 925 00:33:51,464 --> 00:33:53,704 and subscribe to our weekly news and article 926 00:33:53,704 --> 00:33:56,184 digest while you're there. To go the extra 927 00:33:56,184 --> 00:33:58,264 mile, you can follow and share Rewilding Earth 928 00:33:58,264 --> 00:34:01,464 on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Bonus points for 929 00:34:01,464 --> 00:34:04,000 sharing this podcast with your friends. To listen 930 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,519 to past episodes, go to rewilding.org/pod. 931 00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:10,099 That's rewilding.org/pod.