1
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,299
Welcome back, my friends to AA recovery interviews.

2
00:00:07,654 --> 00:00:09,574
I'm your host, Howard l, and I'm an

3
00:00:09,574 --> 00:00:10,074
alcoholic.

4
00:00:10,455 --> 00:00:12,794
So ever since January 1, 1988,

5
00:00:13,334 --> 00:00:15,414
one day at a time. I'm grateful you've

6
00:00:15,414 --> 00:00:16,234
joined us.

7
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,500
AA Recovery Interviews is the podcast where Alcoholics

8
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,500
Anonymous members from around the world

9
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,000
share their extraordinary stories of experience, strength, and

10
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:25,500
hope.

11
00:00:26,125 --> 00:00:28,765
There are more than 150 awesome interviews in

12
00:00:28,765 --> 00:00:31,184
the AA Recovery Interviews podcast series.

13
00:00:31,644 --> 00:00:34,625
Listen to every episode on any podcast app

14
00:00:34,659 --> 00:00:36,119
or at the website, aarecoveryinterviews.com.

15
00:00:38,179 --> 00:00:40,420
Each story is a powerful testimony of the

16
00:00:40,420 --> 00:00:43,479
recovery available to all in Alcoholics Anonymous.

17
00:00:44,585 --> 00:00:47,065
Today's an encore episode of my interview with

18
00:00:47,065 --> 00:00:51,085
Randy L originally released on August 10th, 2021.

19
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,859
Randy has been a sober member of Alcoholics

20
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:55,420
Anonymous

21
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:56,780
since July

22
00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:57,740
1998.

23
00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:01,505
My guest on today's podcast is my friend,

24
00:01:01,505 --> 00:01:04,385
Randy l, a relatively young man who got

25
00:01:04,385 --> 00:01:06,465
sober before he was even old enough to

26
00:01:06,465 --> 00:01:07,604
take a legal drink.

27
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,260
Randy's childhood was ruled by compulsive behavior,

28
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,500
limited attention, and hyperactivity.

29
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,299
Later diagnosed with ADHD,

30
00:01:17,144 --> 00:01:19,704
Randy was treated with meds that worked but

31
00:01:19,704 --> 00:01:22,504
left him craving a calmer and steadier mental

32
00:01:22,504 --> 00:01:23,004
state.

33
00:01:23,625 --> 00:01:26,604
He soon found relief in alcohol and marijuana.

34
00:01:27,579 --> 00:01:30,219
Though the damage occurred only during his teenage

35
00:01:30,219 --> 00:01:30,719
years,

36
00:01:31,020 --> 00:01:34,140
Randy's rise to full blown addiction was both

37
00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:35,439
rapid and severe.

38
00:01:36,135 --> 00:01:38,854
He exploited every opportunity to drink and use

39
00:01:38,854 --> 00:01:40,715
in high school and early college.

40
00:01:41,494 --> 00:01:43,674
Increasingly isolated from his family,

41
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,840
his behavior soon deteriorated into that of a

42
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,700
drug selling addict and alcoholic

43
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,480
whose flawed belief that he was getting away

44
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,015
with it fooled nobody but himself.

45
00:01:54,715 --> 00:01:57,914
Fortunately, his family arranged a very dramatic rescue

46
00:01:57,914 --> 00:02:00,075
plan for Randy that landed him in a

47
00:02:00,075 --> 00:02:03,120
90 day treatment program from which he emerged

48
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,740
into accelerating participation

49
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:05,859
in AA.

50
00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:09,780
At only 20 years of age, Randy relaunched

51
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,564
his life by getting a sponsor,

52
00:02:12,025 --> 00:02:14,925
working the steps, going to meetings, and establishing

53
00:02:15,064 --> 00:02:17,004
a close fellowship in the program

54
00:02:17,305 --> 00:02:19,750
with older men who taught him how to

55
00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:20,569
live sober.

56
00:02:20,949 --> 00:02:23,270
Though Randy labels himself as a high bottom

57
00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:23,770
alcoholic,

58
00:02:24,150 --> 00:02:25,849
the work he's done in the program

59
00:02:26,365 --> 00:02:29,504
demonstrates the deep dive he's taken in understanding

60
00:02:29,724 --> 00:02:32,284
his own life and the behavior that influenced

61
00:02:32,284 --> 00:02:33,905
his personal growth and success.

62
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,400
A particular insight was a highly traumatic event

63
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,659
he experienced when he was 6 years old

64
00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:43,159
that greatly informed his thinking and actions throughout

65
00:02:43,159 --> 00:02:43,900
his sobriety.

66
00:02:44,905 --> 00:02:47,324
Today, Randy's total commitment to AA,

67
00:02:47,625 --> 00:02:49,884
his young family, and the business he runs

68
00:02:50,025 --> 00:02:52,450
makes for a full and busy life. But

69
00:02:52,450 --> 00:02:54,710
the men he's both sponsored and befriended

70
00:02:55,090 --> 00:02:56,450
will tell you that he's a man of

71
00:02:56,450 --> 00:02:57,510
passion and empathy

72
00:02:57,889 --> 00:02:59,750
who is always ready to help.

73
00:03:00,264 --> 00:03:02,425
From firsthand knowledge, I know that to be

74
00:03:02,425 --> 00:03:04,985
true, and I'm confident you'll find his story

75
00:03:04,985 --> 00:03:06,844
both compelling and uplifting.

76
00:03:07,544 --> 00:03:10,189
So without further ado, let me introduce you

77
00:03:10,189 --> 00:03:13,010
to my good friend and AA brother, Randy

78
00:03:13,069 --> 00:03:13,569
l.

79
00:03:14,189 --> 00:03:16,985
Randy, I'm an alcoholic and addict. Hey, Randy.

80
00:03:17,205 --> 00:03:18,965
I'm glad you could be here today. Thanks

81
00:03:18,965 --> 00:03:21,205
for joining me. So you're one of those

82
00:03:21,205 --> 00:03:24,264
ANDA guys, aren't you? An alcoholic and

83
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:25,580
and an addict.

84
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,439
Yeah. I you know, it's funny because I

85
00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:31,180
was an addict really first and

86
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:32,300
found myself

87
00:03:32,915 --> 00:03:34,215
to be an alcoholic

88
00:03:34,675 --> 00:03:35,175
second.

89
00:03:35,474 --> 00:03:37,715
Yeah. I became a believer that Uh-huh. At

90
00:03:37,715 --> 00:03:39,635
the bottom of the bottle was my drug

91
00:03:39,635 --> 00:03:41,620
of choice. Yeah. I get that. You know,

92
00:03:41,620 --> 00:03:43,480
my my story really

93
00:03:43,860 --> 00:03:45,879
was more one of

94
00:03:48,414 --> 00:03:48,914
compulsivity

95
00:03:49,375 --> 00:03:51,074
and addiction around drugs,

96
00:03:51,694 --> 00:03:52,194
and,

97
00:03:52,655 --> 00:03:54,414
you know, that was the high that I

98
00:03:54,414 --> 00:03:54,914
wanted.

99
00:03:55,949 --> 00:03:57,490
But when it wasn't available,

100
00:03:58,830 --> 00:04:00,930
I would use alcohol as a substitution.

101
00:04:01,310 --> 00:04:02,764
You've joined a really august

102
00:04:03,245 --> 00:04:06,444
group of people who I've interviewed. Maybe more

103
00:04:06,444 --> 00:04:08,764
than half of them have the same kind

104
00:04:08,764 --> 00:04:11,164
of story where they started out maybe with

105
00:04:11,164 --> 00:04:13,889
both alcohol and drugs. But along the way,

106
00:04:13,889 --> 00:04:15,189
especially as they were younger,

107
00:04:15,650 --> 00:04:18,949
drugs were actually easier to obtain than alcohol.

108
00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:22,134
First time I tried drugs, I was 16

109
00:04:22,134 --> 00:04:24,694
years old. Uh-huh. Was at a party. I

110
00:04:24,694 --> 00:04:26,074
I had moved to Houston

111
00:04:26,855 --> 00:04:28,615
and, was at a party with a lot

112
00:04:28,615 --> 00:04:30,790
of people I didn't know. A Coke can

113
00:04:30,790 --> 00:04:32,710
was being passed around. It was a drinking

114
00:04:32,710 --> 00:04:34,389
party, but a Coke can was being passed

115
00:04:34,389 --> 00:04:35,210
around where

116
00:04:35,589 --> 00:04:38,175
people were smoking weed with a Coke can,

117
00:04:38,175 --> 00:04:39,935
and I heard about it but never seen

118
00:04:39,935 --> 00:04:42,814
it. Mhmm. I just kinda jumped in line

119
00:04:42,814 --> 00:04:44,595
because it was the thing to do.

120
00:04:45,055 --> 00:04:46,894
Try it the first time and literally had

121
00:04:46,894 --> 00:04:47,714
no effect,

122
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,199
but felt,

123
00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:50,259
camaraderie,

124
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,199
felt some acceptance, felt a part of, and

125
00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:54,800
I was I was new to Houston at

126
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,460
the time.

127
00:04:56,735 --> 00:04:57,214
And,

128
00:04:57,854 --> 00:04:59,935
quickly sought it out a second time, and

129
00:04:59,935 --> 00:05:02,254
it wasn't because, you know, of a feeling

130
00:05:02,254 --> 00:05:04,675
of effect. It was actually a feeling of

131
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,720
acceptance, but ended up the second time getting

132
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,139
high and and just loving the feeling.

133
00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:13,354
So you were doing it with the crowd

134
00:05:13,354 --> 00:05:15,534
when you first started, and you were 16.

135
00:05:16,154 --> 00:05:17,995
I didn't really start smoking dope till I

136
00:05:17,995 --> 00:05:18,495
was

137
00:05:18,875 --> 00:05:21,194
late 17, almost 18, when I was about

138
00:05:21,194 --> 00:05:22,220
ready to go into college.

139
00:05:22,939 --> 00:05:24,639
Lots of people started a lot earlier.

140
00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:26,959
So prior to 16,

141
00:05:27,259 --> 00:05:29,420
what what were you doing? Did you what

142
00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:31,894
was what was your your family of origin

143
00:05:31,894 --> 00:05:34,375
like? Do you have any, alcoholism or drug

144
00:05:34,375 --> 00:05:36,535
addiction going back in your family? No. I

145
00:05:36,535 --> 00:05:38,214
mean, I would I would say is that

146
00:05:38,214 --> 00:05:41,040
there is definitely cases of just overall

147
00:05:41,579 --> 00:05:42,079
compulsivity.

148
00:05:42,779 --> 00:05:44,540
Uh-huh. I get it. Yeah. But I was,

149
00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:46,540
you know, I broke the mold in my

150
00:05:46,540 --> 00:05:47,855
family. I I was,

151
00:05:48,254 --> 00:05:50,995
you know, first to rehab, first to sobriety.

152
00:05:51,375 --> 00:05:51,875
Uh-huh.

153
00:05:52,254 --> 00:05:53,154
And in fact,

154
00:05:53,615 --> 00:05:56,995
it wasn't till years later that I met

155
00:05:57,214 --> 00:06:00,000
a cousin of mine who's actually further ahead

156
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,959
of me in sobriety. Mhmm. But Felice is

157
00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:05,139
a cousin of mine, and we met at,

158
00:06:05,519 --> 00:06:06,419
George Jay's.

159
00:06:06,725 --> 00:06:08,485
Yeah. So it was but, you know, it

160
00:06:08,485 --> 00:06:10,564
was I I was the first one. I

161
00:06:10,564 --> 00:06:12,245
didn't have a lot of experience. I didn't

162
00:06:12,245 --> 00:06:13,705
know what I was getting into.

163
00:06:14,324 --> 00:06:14,824
Uh-huh.

164
00:06:15,189 --> 00:06:17,509
And in fact, for me, the first drug

165
00:06:17,509 --> 00:06:20,089
I was actually introduced to was prescription.

166
00:06:20,629 --> 00:06:23,004
You know, I was diagnosed with ADHD at

167
00:06:23,004 --> 00:06:25,004
the age of 15, and what they did

168
00:06:25,004 --> 00:06:27,485
with me is they gave me prescription speed.

169
00:06:27,485 --> 00:06:27,985
Okay.

170
00:06:28,365 --> 00:06:28,865
And,

171
00:06:29,379 --> 00:06:30,819
they sped me up and I hated it.

172
00:06:30,819 --> 00:06:32,740
Like Adderall or something like that? So it

173
00:06:32,740 --> 00:06:33,560
was Dexedrine.

174
00:06:33,939 --> 00:06:35,300
At the time, they prescribed it for me

175
00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:36,740
and it worked great. Uh-huh. I mean, it

176
00:06:36,740 --> 00:06:37,324
would it

177
00:06:44,205 --> 00:06:45,780
I skin. I was jittery.

178
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,300
And what happened was when I found weed,

179
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,540
I could start regulating myself.

180
00:06:51,964 --> 00:06:53,884
Mhmm. So I could go up with the

181
00:06:53,884 --> 00:06:56,144
prescriptions they were giving me, and,

182
00:06:56,604 --> 00:06:58,524
you know, after school or at night, I

183
00:06:58,524 --> 00:07:00,865
started smoking weed with friends. And

184
00:07:01,209 --> 00:07:02,889
there was a lot that was going on

185
00:07:02,889 --> 00:07:05,610
there that I loved. Mhmm. After moving here

186
00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:08,430
to Houston, it was the feeling of acceptance

187
00:07:08,490 --> 00:07:10,649
in a where I didn't know anybody. I

188
00:07:10,649 --> 00:07:13,064
could quickly adapt into the group.

189
00:07:13,524 --> 00:07:15,764
As long as you were, you know, sitting

190
00:07:15,764 --> 00:07:17,764
in a circle or passing around, you know,

191
00:07:17,764 --> 00:07:19,144
you were instantly accepted.

192
00:07:19,449 --> 00:07:21,050
But the other thing was is that I

193
00:07:21,050 --> 00:07:25,069
started that sort of chemical balancing of myself,

194
00:07:25,689 --> 00:07:28,064
and that, of course, escalated as time went

195
00:07:28,064 --> 00:07:30,545
on. Uh-huh. But I found a tremendous amount

196
00:07:30,545 --> 00:07:32,645
of comfort in calming my mind

197
00:07:33,105 --> 00:07:35,680
and slowing myself down. You were calming your

198
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,399
mind and slowing yourself down from the speeding

199
00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:40,180
up that you were getting from the Dexedrine.

200
00:07:40,399 --> 00:07:41,814
Yep. There are a lot of people of

201
00:07:41,814 --> 00:07:43,654
your generation. Although I'm sounding like an old

202
00:07:43,654 --> 00:07:45,175
man now, but what I'm what I mean

203
00:07:45,175 --> 00:07:47,894
is that it seems like the ADHD and

204
00:07:47,894 --> 00:07:48,954
the ADD drugs,

205
00:07:49,860 --> 00:07:53,139
started to get really popular around your age

206
00:07:53,139 --> 00:07:55,139
group with with parents and that sort of

207
00:07:55,139 --> 00:07:57,404
thing. Were you having a lot of problems

208
00:07:57,404 --> 00:07:59,964
in school and just in general that that

209
00:07:59,964 --> 00:08:02,125
that you needed that immediately, or was that

210
00:08:02,125 --> 00:08:04,605
something they jumped to right away? You know,

211
00:08:04,605 --> 00:08:07,339
the answer was I wasn't doing as well

212
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,439
as I should have been doing, and and

213
00:08:10,439 --> 00:08:12,120
it really did come down to focus. I

214
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,259
mean, very clearly,

215
00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:16,764
I am a text book case

216
00:08:17,545 --> 00:08:18,205
of ADHD.

217
00:08:19,064 --> 00:08:21,944
What what's interesting is later on in time

218
00:08:21,944 --> 00:08:23,084
as I got sober,

219
00:08:24,060 --> 00:08:25,199
it's actually become

220
00:08:25,899 --> 00:08:26,560
an incredible

221
00:08:27,019 --> 00:08:29,579
asset. Mhmm. Mhmm. If you've learned how to

222
00:08:29,579 --> 00:08:30,079
live

223
00:08:30,540 --> 00:08:32,960
with ADHD, if you learn how to multitask,

224
00:08:33,179 --> 00:08:34,304
if you learn how

225
00:08:35,165 --> 00:08:37,404
to better yourself with it Yeah. You know,

226
00:08:37,404 --> 00:08:39,585
in school, I would say I was

227
00:08:39,965 --> 00:08:42,899
not a highly motivated student. I see. I

228
00:08:42,899 --> 00:08:44,279
was more socially motivated,

229
00:08:44,740 --> 00:08:47,139
you know, got tested, loved the extra time

230
00:08:47,139 --> 00:08:49,024
they gave you on the test. Uh-huh. Yeah.

231
00:08:49,024 --> 00:08:50,865
And they started prescribing these drugs. And I

232
00:08:50,865 --> 00:08:52,384
I didn't like them. I mean, I don't

233
00:08:52,705 --> 00:08:54,384
Yeah. Even when I was doing drugs, I

234
00:08:54,384 --> 00:08:57,120
don't like drugs in general that speed me

235
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,200
up. Right. I was always I always wanted

236
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,799
to come down. I always wanted to slow

237
00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:01,459
my mind.

238
00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:03,495
Mhmm. I always felt like I had a

239
00:09:03,495 --> 00:09:05,975
very active mind, you know, a lot of

240
00:09:05,975 --> 00:09:08,695
dreams when I sleep at night. Mhmm. Very

241
00:09:08,695 --> 00:09:10,615
active in the day. It takes me a

242
00:09:10,615 --> 00:09:12,519
lot to slow down. Now if you don't

243
00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:14,440
do the Dexedrine, if you don't do that

244
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:15,660
or you don't do whatever

245
00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:18,679
speeds you up, do you naturally slow down?

246
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,759
Or where do you where does your mind

247
00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:21,259
go

248
00:09:21,684 --> 00:09:24,085
when you don't have that med? You know,

249
00:09:24,085 --> 00:09:25,945
it just goes to staying busy.

250
00:09:26,325 --> 00:09:28,884
Busy. And so I have to have a

251
00:09:28,884 --> 00:09:31,909
lot of information flowing into me from disparate

252
00:09:31,909 --> 00:09:33,909
points, and I can harvest a lot of

253
00:09:33,909 --> 00:09:35,210
information at a time.

254
00:09:35,589 --> 00:09:37,589
Mhmm. Mhmm. And so what I've learned and,

255
00:09:37,589 --> 00:09:39,190
you know, I think as you get older,

256
00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:40,095
there's there is a

257
00:09:42,095 --> 00:09:44,334
part of you that matures out of some

258
00:09:44,334 --> 00:09:46,735
of the negative sides of ADHD. Mhmm. But

259
00:09:46,735 --> 00:09:49,470
for me, first of all, being sober goes

260
00:09:49,470 --> 00:09:51,149
a long way. And and I mean that.

261
00:09:51,149 --> 00:09:52,750
I don't I don't mean, you know, dry.

262
00:09:52,750 --> 00:09:54,669
I mean truly sober. Yeah. I get that.

263
00:09:54,669 --> 00:09:57,009
You know, part of slowing the mind is

264
00:09:57,784 --> 00:09:58,764
when I get

265
00:09:59,225 --> 00:10:01,725
a little bit out of sorts, it's

266
00:10:02,264 --> 00:10:04,365
learning to identify that in myself,

267
00:10:05,940 --> 00:10:06,440
communicating

268
00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:08,120
with about it,

269
00:10:08,740 --> 00:10:10,600
seeking guidance from others,

270
00:10:11,139 --> 00:10:13,240
honestly, kind of calibrating yourself.

271
00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:15,144
If you're doing those things,

272
00:10:15,845 --> 00:10:19,205
then I I really feel that somebody with

273
00:10:19,205 --> 00:10:20,424
ADD, ADHD,

274
00:10:22,085 --> 00:10:24,940
is really built to to succeed

275
00:10:25,399 --> 00:10:28,120
because you can process, I think, larger amounts

276
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,580
of information versus

277
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,059
needing to be very linear,

278
00:10:32,534 --> 00:10:34,934
but you have to have a good way

279
00:10:34,934 --> 00:10:36,394
to function and a lot

280
00:10:36,695 --> 00:10:39,334
of support around you in order to do

281
00:10:39,334 --> 00:10:41,174
that. And and I've had that. I've I've

282
00:10:41,174 --> 00:10:42,235
been really blessed

283
00:10:42,970 --> 00:10:44,570
to have a lot of people around me

284
00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:46,409
both in my personal life and my work

285
00:10:46,409 --> 00:10:48,809
that understand me really well Yeah. And and

286
00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:50,565
allow me to sort of be the best

287
00:10:50,565 --> 00:10:51,625
version of myself.

288
00:10:52,004 --> 00:10:54,245
You know? I'm I'm incredibly blessed in that

289
00:10:54,245 --> 00:10:56,485
way. That's very cool. So for how many

290
00:10:56,485 --> 00:10:58,740
years did you take those meds, or are

291
00:10:58,740 --> 00:11:00,899
you still essentially taking the same meds that

292
00:11:00,899 --> 00:11:03,139
you were taking back then? No. No. I

293
00:11:03,139 --> 00:11:05,399
have not taken a pill for ADHD

294
00:11:05,779 --> 00:11:06,115
since,

295
00:11:07,315 --> 00:11:08,214
getting sober.

296
00:11:08,995 --> 00:11:10,914
So You would have been what about I

297
00:11:10,914 --> 00:11:13,475
got sober 20. So as I like to

298
00:11:13,475 --> 00:11:15,540
say, I've never had a legal drink. Okay.

299
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:17,139
So for 5 years, you were on the

300
00:11:17,139 --> 00:11:17,639
Dexagem.

301
00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:20,259
When when that was prescribed to you, did

302
00:11:20,259 --> 00:11:21,700
you do any other work,

303
00:11:22,180 --> 00:11:22,680
psychological

304
00:11:23,379 --> 00:11:23,879
counseling

305
00:11:24,180 --> 00:11:24,884
or therapy?

306
00:11:25,365 --> 00:11:27,764
I did light therapy. Typically, it was the

307
00:11:27,764 --> 00:11:30,485
check-in. You're taking the drugs. How's it going?

308
00:11:30,485 --> 00:11:33,445
How's school going? Mhmm. I did one summer

309
00:11:33,445 --> 00:11:35,799
go off to a school that was for

310
00:11:36,179 --> 00:11:37,399
kids with ADD,

311
00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:39,860
and, it was actually a summer school. So

312
00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:41,620
I went to school for summer, and I

313
00:11:41,620 --> 00:11:42,335
hated it.

314
00:11:42,735 --> 00:11:45,215
I saw 2 kids, get in a fight

315
00:11:45,215 --> 00:11:47,455
and get kicked out of school. Mhmm. And

316
00:11:47,455 --> 00:11:49,215
so I was like, oh, that's a thing.

317
00:11:49,215 --> 00:11:50,750
So I went in and and got in

318
00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:52,769
a fight and got to come home early.

319
00:11:52,910 --> 00:11:55,149
So I didn't really like being there. I

320
00:11:55,149 --> 00:11:58,190
I did actually learn, some good skill sets

321
00:11:58,190 --> 00:12:00,914
again for learning note taking and and and

322
00:12:00,914 --> 00:12:01,414
focusing,

323
00:12:01,955 --> 00:12:03,714
but, you know, I I wanted to get

324
00:12:03,714 --> 00:12:06,195
home. That was actually during the time where

325
00:12:06,195 --> 00:12:08,350
I was ramping up in my social scene.

326
00:12:08,350 --> 00:12:10,430
I was at that point, I think I

327
00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:12,750
was 17 years old Mhmm. And I I

328
00:12:12,750 --> 00:12:14,414
didn't wanna be there. I wanted to be

329
00:12:14,414 --> 00:12:17,455
back home. Yeah. I get it. You didn't

330
00:12:17,455 --> 00:12:19,855
have a legal drink, but I'm assuming that

331
00:12:19,855 --> 00:12:21,394
you've had plenty of illegal

332
00:12:22,014 --> 00:12:22,514
drinks,

333
00:12:22,975 --> 00:12:23,475
after

334
00:12:24,139 --> 00:12:25,519
after you moved to Houston.

335
00:12:25,820 --> 00:12:28,139
Yeah. The people were they were smoking grass,

336
00:12:28,139 --> 00:12:30,699
but were they equally drinking, or or was

337
00:12:30,699 --> 00:12:32,414
it just mostly grass? I mean, I think

338
00:12:32,414 --> 00:12:32,894
we we were drinking, but it was, weed

339
00:12:32,894 --> 00:12:33,108
was the baseline. We were drinking, and then

340
00:12:33,108 --> 00:12:33,321
we were doing some other stuff too. I

341
00:12:33,321 --> 00:12:34,086
I think, you know, I I believe I

342
00:12:34,086 --> 00:12:35,475
was an addict before going to

343
00:12:37,294 --> 00:12:37,794
the

344
00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:40,850
too. I I think, you know, I I

345
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:43,089
believe I was an addict before going to

346
00:12:43,089 --> 00:12:43,589
college

347
00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:46,870
dependent on weed, and then things

348
00:12:47,725 --> 00:12:49,904
accelerated more when I went to college.

349
00:12:50,524 --> 00:12:52,065
I remember when I was

350
00:12:52,764 --> 00:12:53,825
about 17,

351
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:55,500
I,

352
00:12:55,899 --> 00:12:58,940
saw cocaine for the first time. Oh, okay.

353
00:12:58,940 --> 00:13:00,940
I I don't know how to explain this

354
00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:04,014
because I I don't believe in an omnipotent,

355
00:13:04,154 --> 00:13:05,534
all knowing God. And

356
00:13:05,835 --> 00:13:07,995
there was a feeling that came over me

357
00:13:07,995 --> 00:13:09,850
as there was 3 people in the room,

358
00:13:09,929 --> 00:13:12,649
all 3 did a line of coke and

359
00:13:12,649 --> 00:13:13,789
offered it to me.

360
00:13:14,569 --> 00:13:16,110
I had this feeling

361
00:13:16,889 --> 00:13:18,909
that that was how I was gonna die.

362
00:13:19,394 --> 00:13:21,154
I I don't know how to explain it.

363
00:13:21,154 --> 00:13:24,034
It was one of the strongest feelings I've

364
00:13:24,034 --> 00:13:25,014
had in my life,

365
00:13:25,714 --> 00:13:27,720
and I knew I was compulsive. I've been

366
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679
compulsive from the age of 3. Right? That

367
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:31,580
is in me.

368
00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:34,679
I believe I was an addict before I

369
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,174
added drugs to the equation. Yeah. I act,

370
00:13:38,235 --> 00:13:40,955
behave, think like an addict. I if if

371
00:13:40,955 --> 00:13:43,620
I love something, I want a 100 of

372
00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:45,059
it. You know, I don't believe in law

373
00:13:45,059 --> 00:13:48,019
of diminishing returns. I want Well, that's classic

374
00:13:48,019 --> 00:13:50,899
OCD, isn't it? Yeah. I just want more

375
00:13:50,899 --> 00:13:52,259
and more and more. And I'm talking about

376
00:13:52,259 --> 00:13:54,595
when I was collecting baseball cards in from

377
00:13:54,595 --> 00:13:56,514
a kid, I hated running out of money

378
00:13:56,514 --> 00:13:58,035
and not being able to open up one

379
00:13:58,035 --> 00:14:00,434
more baseball card pack. If I was playing

380
00:14:00,434 --> 00:14:02,710
a game, I I did not wanna stop.

381
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:04,550
You know? If I had food, I wanted

382
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:05,050
more.

383
00:14:05,429 --> 00:14:07,029
Everything for me was always more and more

384
00:14:07,029 --> 00:14:08,790
and more. Mhmm. So I saw cocaine. I

385
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:11,175
was in the room. It was like recoiling

386
00:14:11,175 --> 00:14:13,815
from a hot flame. I never touched it.

387
00:14:13,815 --> 00:14:15,675
I was so afraid of it.

388
00:14:16,134 --> 00:14:18,235
And it you know, and I told myself

389
00:14:18,899 --> 00:14:22,019
that I would never do cocaine because I

390
00:14:22,019 --> 00:14:22,519
knew

391
00:14:23,220 --> 00:14:24,360
that if I did,

392
00:14:24,899 --> 00:14:26,740
it would kill me. And I never did

393
00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:27,240
cocaine.

394
00:14:27,634 --> 00:14:28,454
And to this

395
00:14:29,394 --> 00:14:30,294
day, I believe

396
00:14:30,674 --> 00:14:32,595
if I had done cocaine or if I

397
00:14:32,595 --> 00:14:33,654
ever do cocaine,

398
00:14:34,355 --> 00:14:36,710
I believe it's gonna kill me. I believe

399
00:14:36,769 --> 00:14:37,269
I

400
00:14:37,649 --> 00:14:38,549
would love it

401
00:14:39,009 --> 00:14:41,090
Yeah. That I would not be able to

402
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:42,710
stop due to my compulsivity.

403
00:14:43,330 --> 00:14:45,865
Yeah. I get that belief system about something,

404
00:14:46,204 --> 00:14:46,346
it might as well be that something that

405
00:14:46,346 --> 00:14:46,487
you really shouldn't be doing will kill you

406
00:14:46,487 --> 00:14:46,628
if you do do it. Yeah. But I

407
00:14:46,628 --> 00:14:46,769
had the same kind of thing when it

408
00:14:46,769 --> 00:14:47,464
just comes to getting

409
00:14:53,059 --> 00:14:54,580
Yeah. But I had the same kind of

410
00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:57,220
thing when it just comes to getting drunk

411
00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:59,059
again. I mean, I don't think I'll make

412
00:14:59,059 --> 00:15:00,840
it back. If I go out and drink,

413
00:15:00,845 --> 00:15:02,044
you know, not only will I throw in

414
00:15:02,044 --> 00:15:03,725
away my sobriety, but I'll throw away the

415
00:15:03,725 --> 00:15:05,485
thing that I've spent more years of my

416
00:15:05,485 --> 00:15:08,365
life doing more more intensely than anything else.

417
00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:09,964
And I I just don't think I would

418
00:15:09,964 --> 00:15:12,110
survive. But that's okay. I'm willing to live

419
00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:13,090
with that because

420
00:15:13,629 --> 00:15:16,110
alcoholism is a deadly disease, and you and

421
00:15:16,110 --> 00:15:18,029
I have both known people who've died from

422
00:15:18,029 --> 00:15:20,695
cocaine. Oh my god. Yeah. Maybe not necessarily

423
00:15:20,835 --> 00:15:22,695
the the snorting of it, but certainly,

424
00:15:23,075 --> 00:15:23,575
freebasing

425
00:15:24,034 --> 00:15:26,355
and and crack. To me, that's a healthy

426
00:15:26,355 --> 00:15:28,580
fear. So you never did cocaine, but the

427
00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:31,480
marijuana aided you in terms of regulating

428
00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:34,839
your whatever the drugs were doing for you.

429
00:15:35,059 --> 00:15:37,414
Yeah. I think it's important to to say

430
00:15:37,414 --> 00:15:39,274
this. You know, when I came

431
00:15:39,735 --> 00:15:42,669
in to sobriety and Uh-huh. I'm a a

432
00:15:42,669 --> 00:15:43,330
high bottom

433
00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:45,490
guy. Yeah. So Yeah.

434
00:15:46,350 --> 00:15:48,210
I went to college. I accelerated.

435
00:15:48,830 --> 00:15:49,330
I

436
00:15:52,004 --> 00:15:54,904
lot of other drugs, you know, more hallucinogenics

437
00:15:55,524 --> 00:15:57,465
and party type drugs.

438
00:15:57,845 --> 00:15:59,225
I was very fortunate

439
00:16:01,830 --> 00:16:04,570
that I had deteriorated in school.

440
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:06,330
I deteriorated

441
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:07,450
in both

442
00:16:08,065 --> 00:16:09,904
my relationship with my family and how I

443
00:16:09,904 --> 00:16:12,865
treated my family. Mhmm. And I became sort

444
00:16:12,865 --> 00:16:15,919
of immersed in the culture of drugs.

445
00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,059
And I had an intervention

446
00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:20,820
that was done

447
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:21,700
and,

448
00:16:22,079 --> 00:16:23,379
was put in rehab

449
00:16:24,205 --> 00:16:25,904
before I had any real

450
00:16:26,524 --> 00:16:29,004
life consequence. I was getting really close. I

451
00:16:29,004 --> 00:16:30,465
I started dealing drugs

452
00:16:30,845 --> 00:16:33,909
Mhmm. And I loved dealing drugs. I loved

453
00:16:33,909 --> 00:16:35,750
dealing drugs as much as I loved doing

454
00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:36,250
drugs

455
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:38,950
because what I learned is I'm not I'm

456
00:16:38,950 --> 00:16:41,110
just not part of the party. Mhmm. I

457
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:43,424
felt like I was bringing the party. Oh,

458
00:16:43,424 --> 00:16:45,745
yeah. And I I loved the sense of

459
00:16:45,745 --> 00:16:46,245
control

460
00:16:47,184 --> 00:16:49,345
that I had over people calling me and

461
00:16:49,345 --> 00:16:50,164
needing me.

462
00:16:50,865 --> 00:16:52,920
And, you know, again, it was part of

463
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,420
that culture. So I was very much,

464
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:56,620
participating

465
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,620
deep in the culture

466
00:16:59,415 --> 00:17:01,975
in a way that I was running head

467
00:17:01,975 --> 00:17:05,575
first into major consequences, but never really had

468
00:17:05,575 --> 00:17:06,075
them.

469
00:17:06,455 --> 00:17:09,019
And I enjoyed drugs. I did until

470
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:10,460
the end.

471
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:13,099
I had a very high bottom.

472
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,000
I I remember when I got into the

473
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,453
program, I was Yeah. And what I real

474
00:17:18,883 --> 00:17:22,321
and it's crazy. I know it sounds crazy.

475
00:17:22,321 --> 00:17:25,080
No. It doesn't. I Yeah. And when I

476
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,759
real and it's crazy. I know it sounds

477
00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:28,600
crazy. No. It doesn't. I get it. But,

478
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,200
like, I went to rehab, and, like, these

479
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,384
people have these amazing stories. Like, you know,

480
00:17:33,384 --> 00:17:35,265
I I never ran from the cops. I

481
00:17:35,265 --> 00:17:37,684
never got shot. I don't have anything.

482
00:17:38,065 --> 00:17:40,144
And honestly, like, there was a part of

483
00:17:40,144 --> 00:17:42,210
me that I was like, do do I

484
00:17:42,210 --> 00:17:44,710
fit in? Like Yeah. And what I realized

485
00:17:45,009 --> 00:17:45,509
was

486
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:47,509
my truth is

487
00:17:48,529 --> 00:17:51,144
I had enough for me. When I got

488
00:17:51,144 --> 00:17:51,644
sober

489
00:17:52,025 --> 00:17:53,704
Yeah. And I didn't want to go to

490
00:17:53,704 --> 00:17:57,065
rehab, I was intervened upon. And Uh-huh. I

491
00:17:57,065 --> 00:17:59,849
was basically told that I would lose the

492
00:17:59,849 --> 00:18:01,369
support of my parents, be put on the

493
00:18:01,369 --> 00:18:03,529
streets, not be in college, and have no

494
00:18:03,529 --> 00:18:05,309
direction, or I'm gonna rehab.

495
00:18:05,609 --> 00:18:07,690
Uh-huh. And I and I went to rehab

496
00:18:07,690 --> 00:18:10,184
and it was I was 20 years old.

497
00:18:10,184 --> 00:18:12,345
I went to University of Arizona, and University

498
00:18:12,345 --> 00:18:14,664
of Arizona is just a a big, big

499
00:18:14,664 --> 00:18:16,819
party school. Party school. Sure. I joined a

500
00:18:16,819 --> 00:18:17,319
fraternity,

501
00:18:17,619 --> 00:18:20,339
had a great time there. Again, sort of

502
00:18:20,339 --> 00:18:20,839
accelerated

503
00:18:21,859 --> 00:18:24,224
in my using. I had to stay behind

504
00:18:24,224 --> 00:18:27,265
my sophomore year for summer school because I

505
00:18:27,265 --> 00:18:30,085
was basically, I think, a 2nd semester freshman

506
00:18:30,144 --> 00:18:32,900
after finishing my sophomore year because I dropped

507
00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:35,400
so many classes, and I just wasn't focused.

508
00:18:35,779 --> 00:18:37,240
I dropped all my classes.

509
00:18:37,539 --> 00:18:39,804
Mhmm. At this point, I'm I'm starting to

510
00:18:39,804 --> 00:18:42,924
grow marijuana. I'm dealing it. Mhmm. And, again,

511
00:18:42,924 --> 00:18:44,924
I'm in summer school, and I dropped my

512
00:18:44,924 --> 00:18:47,080
classes again in summer. So I'm there, but

513
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,480
basically, I've now dropped my classes. Were you

514
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,640
keeping that from the folks and and other

515
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,444
people? I I thought I was.

516
00:18:53,845 --> 00:18:56,164
Yeah. And that's what turns out. Turns out

517
00:18:56,164 --> 00:18:56,664
no.

518
00:18:56,964 --> 00:18:58,804
You know? And and I I remember I

519
00:18:59,044 --> 00:19:00,724
you know, 20 year old kid, you you

520
00:19:00,724 --> 00:19:02,900
think you're smart. I I ran out of

521
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,140
money, and I decided to spend on my

522
00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:07,299
emergency credit card, which was my dad's credit

523
00:19:07,299 --> 00:19:09,779
card. Yeah. And my thought process was I'm

524
00:19:09,779 --> 00:19:11,140
gonna spend a bunch of money on the

525
00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:12,825
credit card, but I knew I had money

526
00:19:12,825 --> 00:19:13,884
coming in from

527
00:19:14,424 --> 00:19:15,804
a deal I had done.

528
00:19:16,664 --> 00:19:18,744
And, my idea was I'm gonna go charge

529
00:19:18,744 --> 00:19:20,940
on my dad's credit card, and I'm gonna

530
00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:22,859
go call the credit card company and pay

531
00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:25,119
it off before he ever sees the charges,

532
00:19:25,740 --> 00:19:27,980
not knowing how credit cards really work, that

533
00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:29,904
you get bills in the mail and you

534
00:19:29,904 --> 00:19:31,825
see what people charge. I don't know. I

535
00:19:31,825 --> 00:19:33,525
actually don't know what I was thinking.

536
00:19:34,144 --> 00:19:36,005
My parents had an anniversary.

537
00:19:36,705 --> 00:19:38,085
They renewed their vows.

538
00:19:38,809 --> 00:19:41,049
I miss my flight home. I miss my

539
00:19:41,049 --> 00:19:42,589
parents renewing their vows.

540
00:19:43,369 --> 00:19:46,169
I had, you know, to some extent, just

541
00:19:46,169 --> 00:19:49,005
not cared about my family of origin, had

542
00:19:49,005 --> 00:19:52,865
really estranged myself. It just completely engulfed myself

543
00:19:53,085 --> 00:19:53,585
in,

544
00:19:54,130 --> 00:19:57,285
you know, my what what I thought were

545
00:19:57,285 --> 00:19:59,250
friends. Had that started before you got to

546
00:19:59,250 --> 00:19:59,750
college?

547
00:20:00,049 --> 00:20:02,609
Yeah. To some extent. I mean Yeah. I

548
00:20:02,609 --> 00:20:03,109
was

549
00:20:03,664 --> 00:20:05,825
just getting to be, you know, an older

550
00:20:05,825 --> 00:20:09,285
teenage kid who was Yeah. Finding my way

551
00:20:09,825 --> 00:20:10,705
through and

552
00:20:11,265 --> 00:20:13,220
How about siblings? Did you do you have

553
00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:15,139
siblings? So I do. I have one older

554
00:20:15,139 --> 00:20:16,259
brother. Right.

555
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:18,579
And, you know, honestly, we had a good

556
00:20:18,579 --> 00:20:19,079
relationship

557
00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:21,535
growing up. We fought a lot. I mean,

558
00:20:21,535 --> 00:20:23,475
we were just 2 different people.

559
00:20:23,855 --> 00:20:25,934
I see. So I wasn't very close with

560
00:20:25,934 --> 00:20:28,255
my brother. Certainly during those years, we just

561
00:20:28,255 --> 00:20:31,169
didn't talk. Sure. And then had estranged myself

562
00:20:31,169 --> 00:20:32,069
from my parents.

563
00:20:32,369 --> 00:20:34,210
You know, I tell people part of my

564
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:34,950
story is

565
00:20:35,329 --> 00:20:37,250
I'm a high bottom guy. I had a

566
00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:38,069
great childhood.

567
00:20:38,695 --> 00:20:41,414
One, you know, huge life event in in

568
00:20:41,414 --> 00:20:44,695
childhood which shaped me, but I don't have

569
00:20:44,695 --> 00:20:47,150
a blame. I believe I was born a

570
00:20:47,150 --> 00:20:48,610
very compulsive person.

571
00:20:49,309 --> 00:20:51,490
Once drugs were added to the mix,

572
00:20:52,269 --> 00:20:54,269
you know, it was game on. Like, I

573
00:20:54,269 --> 00:20:55,657
was going to be an addict, in something,

574
00:20:55,657 --> 00:20:57,538
I believe. I I was gonna either be

575
00:20:57,538 --> 00:20:58,265
an overeater. I was gonna be a drug

576
00:20:58,265 --> 00:20:59,945
addict. I was gonna be something the way

577
00:20:59,945 --> 00:21:01,164
I'm kind of built and molded.

578
00:21:04,669 --> 00:21:07,150
Yeah. I am so, so grateful that I

579
00:21:07,150 --> 00:21:09,490
became a drug addict Yeah. Because,

580
00:21:10,190 --> 00:21:12,190
you know, then I was given such a

581
00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:15,335
gift, which was the skill sets of

582
00:21:15,875 --> 00:21:18,054
AA, the program for living

583
00:21:18,434 --> 00:21:20,615
Yeah. That I was given. But

584
00:21:21,075 --> 00:21:23,930
when I came in to the program, I

585
00:21:23,930 --> 00:21:26,089
remember I I tell people I was to

586
00:21:26,089 --> 00:21:26,589
everything.

587
00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:29,765
To everything. I was too young. Uh-huh. I

588
00:21:29,765 --> 00:21:30,744
was too Jewish.

589
00:21:31,125 --> 00:21:32,345
Right. I was too

590
00:21:32,884 --> 00:21:33,625
high bottom.

591
00:21:34,005 --> 00:21:35,684
Right. Like, I walked into being I did

592
00:21:35,684 --> 00:21:38,500
not belong. My first meeting, I heard somebody

593
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,139
talk about smoking crack. Somebody come in and

594
00:21:41,139 --> 00:21:42,819
talk about how Jesus saved their life, and

595
00:21:42,819 --> 00:21:45,095
I'm like, I'm out of here. When I

596
00:21:45,095 --> 00:21:46,454
had my intervention, one of the deals I

597
00:21:46,454 --> 00:21:48,615
made is I'll go to rehab, but I

598
00:21:48,615 --> 00:21:51,115
won't sleep there. That was the deal. So

599
00:21:51,494 --> 00:21:53,730
mommy and daddy picked me up, brought me

600
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:54,869
back from Arizona,

601
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:57,809
and, you know, I drove me to rehab

602
00:21:57,809 --> 00:21:59,009
every day and picked me up. And I

603
00:21:59,009 --> 00:22:00,535
remember when they picked me up from

604
00:22:00,855 --> 00:22:02,455
my first day at rehab, I'd gone to

605
00:22:02,455 --> 00:22:04,215
a meeting, and I was like, you don't

606
00:22:04,215 --> 00:22:06,535
understand. I don't belong. I I don't belong

607
00:22:06,535 --> 00:22:08,695
here. Somebody's these guys you know, people are

608
00:22:08,695 --> 00:22:10,839
smoking crack. People are shooting heroin.

609
00:22:11,299 --> 00:22:13,380
You know, I'm busting people's anonymity left and

610
00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:15,779
right. You know? They're talking about Jesus like

611
00:22:15,779 --> 00:22:17,714
they're gonna try to convert me. Like,

612
00:22:18,194 --> 00:22:19,394
what do you what what did you do?

613
00:22:19,394 --> 00:22:20,934
Where are you where are you putting me?

614
00:22:21,075 --> 00:22:22,934
This was July in in,

615
00:22:23,315 --> 00:22:25,255
in Arizona. I had

616
00:22:25,954 --> 00:22:27,440
driven to Phoenix.

617
00:22:27,819 --> 00:22:29,980
Mhmm. This was after spending on the credit

618
00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:31,819
cards doing that story. I had driven to

619
00:22:31,819 --> 00:22:32,319
Phoenix

620
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:33,440
to basically,

621
00:22:33,740 --> 00:22:36,140
you know, pick up drugs and and come

622
00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:37,265
back to Tucson.

623
00:22:37,804 --> 00:22:40,525
And we went to Phoenix. We're driving back

624
00:22:40,525 --> 00:22:42,924
to Tucson, and I'm with one of my

625
00:22:42,924 --> 00:22:44,684
good friends at the time who was, like,

626
00:22:44,684 --> 00:22:46,500
my partner in crime. And I said to

627
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,340
him, I said, somebody's following us. And he's

628
00:22:49,340 --> 00:22:50,779
like, you're nuts. I was like, no. I

629
00:22:50,779 --> 00:22:52,700
think somebody's following us. I remember we pulled

630
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:54,804
off the freeway. We go back to our

631
00:22:54,804 --> 00:22:56,804
house. I'm not a paranoid guy. That wasn't

632
00:22:56,804 --> 00:22:58,565
part of my thing. And we go back

633
00:22:58,565 --> 00:22:59,704
to my apartment,

634
00:23:00,484 --> 00:23:02,325
and I walk in my apartment and it

635
00:23:02,325 --> 00:23:04,090
looks like stuff's been moved around. I was

636
00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:05,630
like, somebody's been here.

637
00:23:06,170 --> 00:23:07,850
And he's like, man, what's, you know, what's

638
00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:09,529
wrong with you? I was like, no. Like,

639
00:23:09,529 --> 00:23:10,804
somebody's been here.

640
00:23:11,825 --> 00:23:13,264
And, you know, we sit down. I think

641
00:23:13,264 --> 00:23:15,424
we watch TV, smoked a couple of bowls,

642
00:23:15,424 --> 00:23:16,244
went to bed,

643
00:23:17,105 --> 00:23:20,089
wake up the next morning, and this was

644
00:23:20,089 --> 00:23:20,589
July

645
00:23:21,130 --> 00:23:21,950
12, 1998,

646
00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:23,150
and

647
00:23:23,529 --> 00:23:25,470
my door gets kicked in.

648
00:23:25,930 --> 00:23:28,654
Like, my front door gets thrown open. Everybody

649
00:23:28,714 --> 00:23:30,414
down, everybody down.

650
00:23:31,115 --> 00:23:32,954
And the next thing I know, I have

651
00:23:32,954 --> 00:23:35,454
somebody with his knee in my back basically

652
00:23:35,595 --> 00:23:38,200
cuffing me. Oh my goodness. And in my

653
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:38,700
apartment,

654
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,059
I had weed x, acid, mushrooms,

655
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:42,859
money,

656
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,804
you know, 20 hand blown glass pipes because

657
00:23:45,804 --> 00:23:47,804
I collected them because they're art. You know?

658
00:23:47,804 --> 00:23:49,565
They're art to me. Right? Sure. Sure. Yeah.

659
00:23:49,565 --> 00:23:49,804
And,

660
00:23:50,764 --> 00:23:53,079
so, I mean, I was done. I mean,

661
00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:54,220
this was the end.

662
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:55,099
And

663
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:55,980
basically,

664
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,339
get arrested

665
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:00,839
and sat down on the couch next to

666
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:02,654
my buddy who had slept on my couch,

667
00:24:03,855 --> 00:24:06,015
and these 2 guys start yelling at us.

668
00:24:06,015 --> 00:24:09,215
We've been following you. We know everything. We've

669
00:24:09,215 --> 00:24:11,650
seen you do your drug deals. You're bust

670
00:24:11,809 --> 00:24:12,630
You're done.

671
00:24:13,089 --> 00:24:15,490
You know, this was like life just hitting

672
00:24:15,490 --> 00:24:17,589
you in the face. I mean Wow.

673
00:24:18,369 --> 00:24:20,789
And then they said, you can come in.

674
00:24:21,575 --> 00:24:23,515
And then my dad walked in the door

675
00:24:24,294 --> 00:24:26,634
who lives in Houston, and I'm in Tucson.

676
00:24:26,694 --> 00:24:29,549
Oh, wow. Uh-huh. And, basically, my parents had

677
00:24:29,549 --> 00:24:32,190
hired private investigators to come follow me to

678
00:24:32,190 --> 00:24:34,029
see what I was up to. Gosh. And

679
00:24:34,029 --> 00:24:35,710
they knew everything. And you thought they were

680
00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:37,869
law enforcement or DEA? Oh, I I no.

681
00:24:37,869 --> 00:24:39,154
I thought they were cops. I mean, they

682
00:24:39,154 --> 00:24:40,994
were like flashing badges. So these 2 guys

683
00:24:40,994 --> 00:24:43,474
were private investigators or former cops, and so

684
00:24:43,474 --> 00:24:44,134
I thought

685
00:24:44,674 --> 00:24:46,674
I was being arrested. Like, my life was

686
00:24:46,674 --> 00:24:47,174
over.

687
00:24:47,779 --> 00:24:49,220
I was over. I had a grow room

688
00:24:49,220 --> 00:24:50,359
in my second bedroom.

689
00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:52,420
I would have done a decade with what

690
00:24:52,420 --> 00:24:54,420
was in my apartment, and then my dad

691
00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:55,160
walks in.

692
00:24:55,605 --> 00:24:57,045
And my dad just looks at me. I

693
00:24:57,285 --> 00:24:59,285
I'm very close to my dad, always have

694
00:24:59,285 --> 00:24:59,785
been.

695
00:25:00,244 --> 00:25:02,825
And but I thought he knew nothing.

696
00:25:03,349 --> 00:25:05,349
So he went from knowing nothing to having

697
00:25:05,349 --> 00:25:07,450
been in my apartment and seen everything.

698
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:11,365
Oh, wow. That's wild. And my dad, they

699
00:25:11,365 --> 00:25:12,505
said, you can come in,

700
00:25:12,884 --> 00:25:13,384
and,

701
00:25:16,565 --> 00:25:18,630
you know, it was like the biggest sense

702
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:19,289
of relief,

703
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:21,529
but immediately

704
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:23,049
followed by the

705
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:25,429
biggest sense of guilt you can ever imagine.

706
00:25:25,429 --> 00:25:27,884
It was like the biggest, you know, melding

707
00:25:27,884 --> 00:25:30,304
of emotions you could ever feel.

708
00:25:30,684 --> 00:25:32,365
And they said, do you wanna say anything?

709
00:25:32,365 --> 00:25:33,884
And he looks at me and he just,

710
00:25:33,884 --> 00:25:35,884
you know, says the worst thing a father

711
00:25:35,884 --> 00:25:37,950
can ever say to a son. I'm just

712
00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:38,769
so disappointed.

713
00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:42,029
Right? Like That's a killer, man. That's a

714
00:25:42,029 --> 00:25:43,390
killer. Right. That was it. That was all

715
00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:44,990
there was there was no speech. There was

716
00:25:44,990 --> 00:25:46,555
no anger. It was just,

717
00:25:47,095 --> 00:25:49,174
you know, like, I'm so disappointed. It was

718
00:25:49,174 --> 00:25:51,095
like, oh my god. Was that his first

719
00:25:51,095 --> 00:25:53,255
time visiting you? No. I mean, they they

720
00:25:53,255 --> 00:25:54,615
had been there, but every time they had

721
00:25:54,615 --> 00:25:55,960
been there, of course, I cleaned up my

722
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,799
act. You know, they'd come and been to,

723
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:00,039
like, our fraternity things. I'm like but I

724
00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:01,400
could play the game. I could go on

725
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,079
vacation with them. I felt like I was

726
00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:05,734
hiding it, But I had a rapid descent.

727
00:26:05,734 --> 00:26:09,115
My my last 9 months was pretty rough

728
00:26:09,494 --> 00:26:11,414
in the fact that Yeah. Again, I was

729
00:26:11,414 --> 00:26:12,634
having a great time,

730
00:26:13,099 --> 00:26:16,220
but Uh-huh. I was destroying everything around me

731
00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:19,200
without even realizing it. Did your dad learn

732
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:22,244
about all of this from the private investigators,

733
00:26:22,384 --> 00:26:24,144
or did he have some inkling that you

734
00:26:24,144 --> 00:26:26,625
were doing all this prior to getting involved

735
00:26:26,625 --> 00:26:28,224
with them? They just couldn't figure out what

736
00:26:28,224 --> 00:26:30,009
was going on with me. Like, why was

737
00:26:30,009 --> 00:26:32,089
I spinning so far out of control? Why

738
00:26:32,089 --> 00:26:33,230
was I so distant?

739
00:26:33,529 --> 00:26:35,609
Why was I getting such bad grades in

740
00:26:35,609 --> 00:26:36,109
school?

741
00:26:36,434 --> 00:26:39,115
And they knew something was up. And so

742
00:26:39,315 --> 00:26:41,554
Uh-huh. They finally got the thought that maybe

743
00:26:41,554 --> 00:26:42,934
he's got a drug problem.

744
00:26:43,599 --> 00:26:45,059
They went and saw

745
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,640
this this lady who saved my life. She

746
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:49,779
was my therapist

747
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,704
for many, many years and saved my

748
00:26:53,005 --> 00:26:55,184
life, just the angel in my life.

749
00:26:55,484 --> 00:26:58,125
Yeah. They met, and she kinda coached him

750
00:26:58,125 --> 00:26:59,409
through what to do.

751
00:26:59,869 --> 00:27:00,369
And,

752
00:27:01,869 --> 00:27:03,630
so my dad told me, he goes, you've

753
00:27:03,630 --> 00:27:06,109
got 2 choices. He said, we're gonna turn

754
00:27:06,109 --> 00:27:07,490
everything over to the cops,

755
00:27:08,029 --> 00:27:08,529
and

756
00:27:09,054 --> 00:27:09,554
you're

757
00:27:10,014 --> 00:27:10,674
out, or

758
00:27:11,375 --> 00:27:13,234
you can go to rehab. I was like,

759
00:27:14,014 --> 00:27:15,934
pretty easy decision. Like, I'm going to rehab.

760
00:27:16,095 --> 00:27:17,774
Easy choice. And I went to and, you

761
00:27:17,774 --> 00:27:19,279
know, so I went to rehab. I remember

762
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:21,440
we flew back through Phoenix, and there was

763
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,360
a moment after we I had to throw

764
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:24,720
out everything. I had to throw out my

765
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,980
all my lovely, you know,

766
00:27:30,965 --> 00:27:33,045
we flew back from Tucson to Phoenix, had

767
00:27:33,045 --> 00:27:35,225
a layover, and I actually thought about running.

768
00:27:35,365 --> 00:27:37,210
I actually thought about taking off at that

769
00:27:37,210 --> 00:27:38,349
point, but I knew

770
00:27:38,650 --> 00:27:39,549
what it would do

771
00:27:40,089 --> 00:27:42,109
to my relationship with my family.

772
00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:45,424
And so I continued back, back, checked in

773
00:27:45,424 --> 00:27:47,044
the next day. I had no intention

774
00:27:47,505 --> 00:27:48,724
of staying sober.

775
00:27:49,105 --> 00:27:52,085
Mhmm. And I was about 25

776
00:27:52,625 --> 00:27:53,125
days

777
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:55,750
in and I remember they asked how you

778
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:57,269
know, they gave you the speech only about

779
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:59,450
10% of you are gonna make a year.

780
00:27:59,509 --> 00:28:01,255
You know? Who do you and they said,

781
00:28:01,255 --> 00:28:03,095
who here thinks you're gonna make a year?

782
00:28:03,095 --> 00:28:05,015
And everybody in the room raised their hand

783
00:28:05,015 --> 00:28:05,914
except for me.

784
00:28:07,654 --> 00:28:09,815
Honestly, I I was just there to check

785
00:28:09,815 --> 00:28:11,259
the box, get through,

786
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,220
and

787
00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:14,519
my intent was I didn't know if I

788
00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:16,380
was an addict. I didn't know,

789
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:18,279
you know, if I had a problem. And

790
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:20,115
I remember they made me write a paper

791
00:28:20,194 --> 00:28:21,095
about surrender,

792
00:28:21,394 --> 00:28:22,775
and I went home

793
00:28:23,234 --> 00:28:25,875
and and wrote a paper about surrender. I

794
00:28:25,875 --> 00:28:27,789
I think what I did, if I remember

795
00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:30,110
right, is I wrote a whole paper. It

796
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:31,250
was about 3 pages,

797
00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:33,890
something about the Peloponnesian War.

798
00:28:34,269 --> 00:28:34,769
And

799
00:28:35,914 --> 00:28:36,414
and,

800
00:28:36,795 --> 00:28:39,035
I brought it back. I really studied, and

801
00:28:39,035 --> 00:28:41,994
I gave my my my all. And she

802
00:28:41,994 --> 00:28:43,295
just said, you just

803
00:28:43,674 --> 00:28:46,700
you don't get it. Don't get it. Yeah.

804
00:28:46,779 --> 00:28:47,279
Understand

805
00:28:47,740 --> 00:28:49,119
what we're doing here.

806
00:28:49,420 --> 00:28:50,299
Mhmm. And,

807
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:52,700
she proceeded to tell me that I could

808
00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:53,200
restart

809
00:28:53,660 --> 00:28:56,315
my 30 day program 30 days in. So

810
00:28:56,315 --> 00:28:57,994
I spent 60 days in a 30 day

811
00:28:57,994 --> 00:29:00,315
treatment program. Mhmm. And it was the best

812
00:29:00,315 --> 00:29:01,934
thing that happened to me because

813
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,220
it took time for me to distance myself

814
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,579
from my using

815
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:11,299
to see the consequences,

816
00:29:12,445 --> 00:29:14,065
not just of what I'd done

817
00:29:14,605 --> 00:29:15,005
Right.

818
00:29:15,404 --> 00:29:16,785
But where I was going.

819
00:29:17,164 --> 00:29:19,664
Yeah. I always wanted to be successful.

820
00:29:20,589 --> 00:29:21,549
I always wanted

821
00:29:21,950 --> 00:29:24,269
I really, really wanted to make an impact

822
00:29:24,269 --> 00:29:26,509
in this world. Mhmm. And when I was

823
00:29:26,509 --> 00:29:30,474
sitting in rehab, my my epiphany really came

824
00:29:31,095 --> 00:29:33,335
in in a couple of moments. Number 1

825
00:29:33,335 --> 00:29:33,835
was

826
00:29:34,615 --> 00:29:36,375
somebody I was outside of a meeting, and

827
00:29:36,375 --> 00:29:37,890
an old timer said to me, he goes,

828
00:29:37,970 --> 00:29:40,210
did have you ever lied to your parents?

829
00:29:40,210 --> 00:29:41,589
And I was like, well, yeah.

830
00:29:41,890 --> 00:29:43,109
He's like, have you ever

831
00:29:43,809 --> 00:29:46,230
cheated or stole from your parents? Yeah.

832
00:29:46,529 --> 00:29:48,195
He's like, have you ever hit your parents?

833
00:29:48,195 --> 00:29:49,715
I was like, actually, I yes. Slapped my

834
00:29:49,715 --> 00:29:51,494
mom one time. I I remember that.

835
00:29:52,035 --> 00:29:53,475
And he said, what would you do to

836
00:29:53,475 --> 00:29:55,174
somebody that did that to your parents?

837
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,759
Mhmm. And he said, the thing is is

838
00:29:57,759 --> 00:29:58,259
that

839
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:01,460
we we start acting and behaving

840
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,019
in a different way

841
00:30:04,644 --> 00:30:06,724
when the drugs take over. And and they

842
00:30:06,804 --> 00:30:08,025
it really did

843
00:30:08,964 --> 00:30:10,345
make me sacrifice

844
00:30:11,525 --> 00:30:13,779
my morals, my values, my ethics.

845
00:30:14,259 --> 00:30:16,180
And, you know, you'd hear people talk about

846
00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:18,500
my standards. You know? Right. My actions were

847
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:20,980
actually falling quicker than my standards, and and

848
00:30:20,980 --> 00:30:23,224
that's what was happening for me. And it

849
00:30:23,224 --> 00:30:26,424
took me being in sobriety in rehab. That

850
00:30:26,424 --> 00:30:28,424
was my time to actually sit back and

851
00:30:28,424 --> 00:30:31,144
reflect. And my reflection again, this high bottom

852
00:30:31,144 --> 00:30:33,509
moment for me, I was ready to get

853
00:30:33,509 --> 00:30:36,309
off of the ride Uh-huh. Not because of

854
00:30:36,309 --> 00:30:39,029
where it taken me to Sure. But because

855
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:41,325
I had enough time that I could clearly

856
00:30:41,325 --> 00:30:42,625
see where I was going.

857
00:30:43,005 --> 00:30:44,924
And I was 20 years old. I'd gone

858
00:30:44,924 --> 00:30:48,065
nowhere in college. I had an identity crisis

859
00:30:48,125 --> 00:30:50,910
essentially there. So Yeah. It was very clear

860
00:30:50,910 --> 00:30:52,930
that I was going nowhere. Right. So

861
00:30:53,789 --> 00:30:56,049
I made a deep commitment

862
00:30:56,910 --> 00:30:57,809
at that point

863
00:30:59,105 --> 00:31:00,705
to get to a year of sobriety. They

864
00:31:00,705 --> 00:31:02,065
told me you told me we all we

865
00:31:02,065 --> 00:31:04,465
can always refund your misery and Yeah. Right.

866
00:31:04,465 --> 00:31:06,705
Yeah. And I made that commitment, got a

867
00:31:06,705 --> 00:31:09,359
sponsor, decided I was gonna work the steps

868
00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:11,740
Uh-huh. And decided I was gonna throw myself

869
00:31:11,740 --> 00:31:13,579
into it because I I just had nothing

870
00:31:13,579 --> 00:31:15,900
to lose at that point. Yeah. And I

871
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:18,285
realized that the path I was on just

872
00:31:18,285 --> 00:31:20,125
wasn't one that I was proud of. That

873
00:31:20,125 --> 00:31:22,384
was my epiphany. That was really

874
00:31:23,085 --> 00:31:25,644
my moment in just saying I'm gonna give

875
00:31:25,644 --> 00:31:26,945
it a shot and and

876
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:28,289
seeing myself

877
00:31:28,910 --> 00:31:29,410
differently.

878
00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:32,029
You were there for a total of 60

879
00:31:32,029 --> 00:31:33,789
days. At what point did you have this

880
00:31:33,789 --> 00:31:36,109
light bulb moment? It was probably around day

881
00:31:36,109 --> 00:31:36,595
30

882
00:31:37,554 --> 00:31:39,234
5. Really? Yeah. So so there was a

883
00:31:39,234 --> 00:31:41,154
few things I went through in rehab. One

884
00:31:41,154 --> 00:31:43,554
is just kind of going through being in

885
00:31:43,554 --> 00:31:46,329
meetings every day and just Yeah. Looking around

886
00:31:46,329 --> 00:31:48,569
and saying, you know, part of it was

887
00:31:48,569 --> 00:31:50,650
hearing those people telling the stories that were

888
00:31:50,650 --> 00:31:51,150
405060

889
00:31:51,934 --> 00:31:53,694
60 and going, I don't even wanna give

890
00:31:53,694 --> 00:31:55,474
it a chance to end up like that.

891
00:31:55,855 --> 00:31:58,115
And I remember I actually stayed in treatment

892
00:31:58,174 --> 00:32:00,174
for a total of 90 days. I did,

893
00:32:00,575 --> 00:32:02,970
I did an IOP afterwards. And I remember

894
00:32:02,970 --> 00:32:04,589
I was finishing my IOP.

895
00:32:05,130 --> 00:32:06,809
We could go around the room, and it's

896
00:32:06,809 --> 00:32:08,990
kind of the end of rehab

897
00:32:09,525 --> 00:32:11,684
for anything that you're checking out. Everybody says

898
00:32:11,684 --> 00:32:13,605
nice things to you and, you know, keep

899
00:32:13,605 --> 00:32:15,924
coming back. And Mhmm. I remember Ed said

900
00:32:15,924 --> 00:32:17,865
something to me that I

901
00:32:18,529 --> 00:32:20,690
can't get out of my brain, and it's

902
00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:23,009
in me every single day. Mhmm. And he

903
00:32:23,009 --> 00:32:24,849
said, you know, Randy, he said, I've seen

904
00:32:24,849 --> 00:32:26,865
a lot of people come through this treatment.

905
00:32:26,924 --> 00:32:29,184
Mhmm. And he said, you may have

906
00:32:29,644 --> 00:32:30,945
some of the most potential

907
00:32:31,404 --> 00:32:33,884
that I've seen of anybody that's come through

908
00:32:33,884 --> 00:32:34,384
here.

909
00:32:34,779 --> 00:32:36,539
And I was so proud when he said

910
00:32:36,539 --> 00:32:38,460
that. Wow. And he said, but you know,

911
00:32:38,460 --> 00:32:40,319
when somebody tells you you have potential,

912
00:32:40,940 --> 00:32:41,919
that's an insult.

913
00:32:42,325 --> 00:32:44,085
He goes, because what you're doing is you're

914
00:32:44,085 --> 00:32:47,525
wasting talent. He goes, nobody tells Michael Jordan

915
00:32:47,525 --> 00:32:49,765
he has potential. Right. He goes, right now,

916
00:32:49,765 --> 00:32:52,470
you're just wasted talent. Uh-huh. And he goes,

917
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:55,450
I hope that you can fulfill your talent.

918
00:32:56,069 --> 00:32:58,389
And Wow. My life's goal now is to

919
00:32:58,389 --> 00:33:01,044
make sure nobody thinks I have potential anymore.

920
00:33:01,504 --> 00:33:04,144
I'm telling you, it stuck with me. It

921
00:33:04,144 --> 00:33:07,585
branded me. Yeah. And it crawled into my

922
00:33:07,585 --> 00:33:09,204
brain and never left me.

923
00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:11,880
That's a great frame of mind to have,

924
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,440
I mean, and also to pass on. I've

925
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,079
heard that before. I have a sponsor who

926
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:19,294
said very similar things to me early on.

927
00:33:19,294 --> 00:33:20,815
One of the things he said was and

928
00:33:20,815 --> 00:33:23,134
I've said this in other interviews. He said,

929
00:33:23,134 --> 00:33:24,974
be careful of telling people what you're going

930
00:33:24,974 --> 00:33:26,929
to do or your intentions or what, in

931
00:33:26,929 --> 00:33:28,149
this case, your potential.

932
00:33:28,450 --> 00:33:30,690
Because you can get enough satisfaction from their

933
00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:31,829
response to that

934
00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:33,809
that you never actually have to engage in

935
00:33:33,809 --> 00:33:35,829
what it is you've you've got the potential

936
00:33:36,025 --> 00:33:38,265
for or your intentions to do. You know,

937
00:33:38,265 --> 00:33:39,484
his whole thing was

938
00:33:39,785 --> 00:33:40,444
do it

939
00:33:40,744 --> 00:33:41,644
and let people

940
00:33:42,025 --> 00:33:43,865
see it, and then you don't have to

941
00:33:43,865 --> 00:33:45,349
talk about it. Sounds like that's what you

942
00:33:45,349 --> 00:33:46,950
got from Ed. I did. And and, you

943
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:48,890
know, I I grew up in a small

944
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:51,049
South Texas town. I grew up in McAllen,

945
00:33:51,109 --> 00:33:53,494
Texas. Sure. Uh-huh. So I was born there,

946
00:33:53,954 --> 00:33:56,295
and my best friend from birth,

947
00:33:57,075 --> 00:33:59,234
his brother was my brother's best friend. My

948
00:33:59,234 --> 00:34:01,559
brother was older, and he was my best

949
00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:03,480
friend. And our parents were best friends, and

950
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,340
we were essentially raised together.

951
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,220
His name was Jeff. And

952
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,805
at 6, he developed a brain tumor and

953
00:34:11,805 --> 00:34:13,744
ended up passing away from it.

954
00:34:14,684 --> 00:34:17,505
When Jeff was diagnosed with a brain tumor,

955
00:34:18,045 --> 00:34:19,985
I didn't see him anymore.

956
00:34:20,590 --> 00:34:23,070
And I wasn't really told what was going

957
00:34:23,070 --> 00:34:25,090
on with him other than he was sick.

958
00:34:25,309 --> 00:34:27,869
Mhmm. And I remember my brother went to

959
00:34:27,869 --> 00:34:30,344
his brother's birthday party, and I hadn't seen

960
00:34:30,344 --> 00:34:32,664
Jeff in about 6 or 8 months. I

961
00:34:32,664 --> 00:34:34,344
don't know I don't know how long it

962
00:34:34,344 --> 00:34:35,724
had been, but it had been a while.

963
00:34:36,025 --> 00:34:37,920
Sure. And my dad dad pulls up to

964
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,559
the bowling alley. I run-in to go get

965
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:42,400
my brother and bring him back to the

966
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:42,900
car,

967
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:45,114
and there's a kid in a wheel chair

968
00:34:45,114 --> 00:34:46,014
with a trach

969
00:34:46,394 --> 00:34:49,194
shaved head or or lost all his hair

970
00:34:49,434 --> 00:34:51,375
Uh-huh. And barely recognizable.

971
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,640
And I went up, and I didn't know

972
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,239
I didn't know he would look like. I

973
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,960
didn't it's burned into my head. What a

974
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,119
shock. And I talked to him for, like,

975
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:03,155
a minute, and then I ran out crying.

976
00:35:03,155 --> 00:35:04,755
And you were 6 at the time this

977
00:35:04,755 --> 00:35:05,255
happened?

978
00:35:05,554 --> 00:35:06,534
I was 6.

979
00:35:06,994 --> 00:35:08,674
Wow. And Jeff passed away

980
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:11,440
I don't know time death at time depth

981
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,280
at that age, but he passed away a

982
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,260
few months later.

983
00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:16,400
Right. I didn't go to the funeral. I

984
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,434
wasn't allowed to. I was I just I

985
00:35:18,434 --> 00:35:20,195
I was totally passed and that was it.

986
00:35:20,195 --> 00:35:21,655
That was the end of the conversation.

987
00:35:22,114 --> 00:35:24,614
Yeah. Yeah. Nobody ever really talked about it.

988
00:35:24,675 --> 00:35:27,390
Uh-huh. And there was a few things that

989
00:35:27,390 --> 00:35:28,769
happened. This is predating

990
00:35:29,230 --> 00:35:31,550
using, but I think has a lot to

991
00:35:31,550 --> 00:35:33,809
do with my wanting to numb

992
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:35,809
Yeah. And that

993
00:35:36,335 --> 00:35:38,835
the reason that statement by Ed about potential

994
00:35:38,894 --> 00:35:42,014
hurt me so much, I remembered not trusting

995
00:35:42,014 --> 00:35:42,514
God.

996
00:35:42,974 --> 00:35:44,195
Yeah. I remembered

997
00:35:44,969 --> 00:35:45,469
feeling

998
00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:46,510
like

999
00:35:46,889 --> 00:35:48,969
at 8, 9, 10 years old, sitting there

1000
00:35:48,969 --> 00:35:51,050
at night going to sleep going, where where

1001
00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:53,929
is he? What's happening? What's happening to his

1002
00:35:53,929 --> 00:35:54,429
soul?

1003
00:35:54,765 --> 00:35:56,525
And then by the time I reach my

1004
00:35:56,525 --> 00:35:59,184
teenage years, when something good happened,

1005
00:35:59,965 --> 00:36:02,090
I had guilt because he never had the

1006
00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:02,750
opportunity.

1007
00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:05,390
And when I screwed something up,

1008
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:07,070
I felt terrible

1009
00:36:07,930 --> 00:36:10,090
because I was screwing up an opportunity he

1010
00:36:10,090 --> 00:36:10,910
never had.

1011
00:36:11,625 --> 00:36:13,644
I lived in this crazy

1012
00:36:13,945 --> 00:36:15,085
sort of Mhmm.

1013
00:36:15,385 --> 00:36:18,425
Mhmm. You know, binary box where Yeah. If

1014
00:36:18,425 --> 00:36:20,980
something was great, I couldn't accept it. And

1015
00:36:21,139 --> 00:36:23,940
if something was bad, it was worse because

1016
00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:24,840
I had failed.

1017
00:36:25,460 --> 00:36:27,559
So when Ed says something to me like,

1018
00:36:28,099 --> 00:36:30,414
you have potential, but you're a waste of

1019
00:36:30,414 --> 00:36:32,994
talent Mhmm. What I feel is

1020
00:36:33,375 --> 00:36:35,614
I'm wasting an opportunity that he didn't even

1021
00:36:35,614 --> 00:36:36,114
get.

1022
00:36:36,730 --> 00:36:39,230
Wow. And part of me getting sober,

1023
00:36:39,849 --> 00:36:42,170
part of me working my 5th step Mhmm.

1024
00:36:42,329 --> 00:36:43,550
For the first time

1025
00:36:43,930 --> 00:36:45,914
was digging into that feeling

1026
00:36:46,775 --> 00:36:47,434
of loss.

1027
00:36:47,974 --> 00:36:50,974
My my work was letting him go Yeah.

1028
00:36:51,175 --> 00:36:54,369
And not having that hang over me and

1029
00:36:54,369 --> 00:36:55,670
not feeling like

1030
00:36:56,050 --> 00:36:58,550
I had to live my life for him.

1031
00:36:58,930 --> 00:37:00,974
Now to this day, in a lot of

1032
00:37:00,974 --> 00:37:03,155
my life, I I don't have a relationship

1033
00:37:03,295 --> 00:37:06,015
with his parents. His mother, I saw years

1034
00:37:06,015 --> 00:37:08,595
later, and she she had trouble seeing me

1035
00:37:08,655 --> 00:37:09,155
because

1036
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,679
it's the sort of pacing of where he

1037
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:14,579
would be. Yeah. But I try to live

1038
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:15,619
every day

1039
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,980
honoring him,

1040
00:37:17,974 --> 00:37:18,795
and honoring

1041
00:37:19,335 --> 00:37:21,894
the life that he lived and the influence

1042
00:37:21,894 --> 00:37:23,194
that he had on me.

1043
00:37:23,574 --> 00:37:26,030
But I've, you know, been able to let

1044
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:28,750
go of some of that release and guilt

1045
00:37:28,750 --> 00:37:29,250
of

1046
00:37:29,949 --> 00:37:32,590
having opportunities that others don't. But I don't

1047
00:37:32,590 --> 00:37:35,664
forget. I I really deeply wanna give back

1048
00:37:35,664 --> 00:37:38,385
in this life Yeah. In his honor. And

1049
00:37:38,385 --> 00:37:40,704
so that's something that's a big, big part

1050
00:37:40,704 --> 00:37:41,364
of me.

1051
00:37:42,469 --> 00:37:43,690
We'll be right back.

1052
00:37:44,309 --> 00:37:47,289
My friends, if you're enjoying AA recovery interviews,

1053
00:37:47,590 --> 00:37:49,429
I invite you to check out my latest

1054
00:37:49,429 --> 00:37:49,929
audiobook,

1055
00:37:50,534 --> 00:37:53,174
Alcoholics Anonymous, the story of how more than

1056
00:37:53,174 --> 00:37:55,434
100 men have recovered from alcoholism.

1057
00:37:56,295 --> 00:37:58,030
This is the word for word, cover to

1058
00:37:58,030 --> 00:37:59,949
cover reading of the first edition of the

1059
00:37:59,949 --> 00:38:01,969
big book published in 1939.

1060
00:38:02,910 --> 00:38:05,710
It's a relaxing yet meaningful and engaging way

1061
00:38:05,710 --> 00:38:08,195
to listen to the big book anytime, any

1062
00:38:08,195 --> 00:38:08,695
place.

1063
00:38:09,235 --> 00:38:11,015
Have a free listen at Audible,

1064
00:38:11,315 --> 00:38:12,695
Itunes, or Amazon.

1065
00:38:13,235 --> 00:38:15,640
While you're there, search for my other audiobook,

1066
00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:18,360
Lost Stories of the Big Book. 30 original

1067
00:38:18,420 --> 00:38:21,000
stories from the first and or second editions

1068
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:23,094
missing from the third and fourth editions of

1069
00:38:23,094 --> 00:38:24,155
Alcoholics Anonymous.

1070
00:38:24,775 --> 00:38:27,175
It's also available from Amazon as a Kindle

1071
00:38:27,175 --> 00:38:29,255
book or in paperback if you'd like to

1072
00:38:29,255 --> 00:38:29,994
read along.

1073
00:38:30,375 --> 00:38:31,755
You're gonna love it.

1074
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:33,940
And we're back.

1075
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,300
What were you being told back then when

1076
00:38:37,359 --> 00:38:39,599
you're a kid, you're 7, 8, 9 years

1077
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:40,099
old

1078
00:38:40,514 --> 00:38:42,434
having to deal with this thing, which is

1079
00:38:42,434 --> 00:38:43,335
just absolutely,

1080
00:38:44,355 --> 00:38:44,855
devastating

1081
00:38:45,474 --> 00:38:46,214
to anybody

1082
00:38:46,514 --> 00:38:48,434
but to a 6 year old who doesn't

1083
00:38:48,434 --> 00:38:50,420
even get a chance to understand it. Were

1084
00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:52,679
you being given any messages about

1085
00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:55,780
a higher power or God or what kind

1086
00:38:55,780 --> 00:38:58,255
of messages were you getting from people around

1087
00:38:58,255 --> 00:38:59,235
you or institutions

1088
00:38:59,855 --> 00:39:01,934
to help you deal with that? Or did

1089
00:39:01,934 --> 00:39:04,335
you not get anything? Nothing. So a couple

1090
00:39:04,335 --> 00:39:07,130
things. Right? So you piece the pieces together.

1091
00:39:07,429 --> 00:39:08,170
Number 1

1092
00:39:08,949 --> 00:39:10,869
is Jeff dies. Nobody talks to me about

1093
00:39:10,869 --> 00:39:13,109
it. And I literally in my room, the

1094
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:14,704
only thing I have is a bear that

1095
00:39:14,704 --> 00:39:16,704
what he had when he passed and that

1096
00:39:16,704 --> 00:39:18,304
was given to me. And I I have

1097
00:39:18,304 --> 00:39:20,840
that bear still in my house. Yeah.

1098
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,260
But we didn't talk about it. And then

1099
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,160
I'm ADD kid who goes to temple. Right.

1100
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,519
To me, I was learning a lot of

1101
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:30,614
boring stuff. Right? I didn't wanna be there.

1102
00:39:30,614 --> 00:39:32,695
I'm a hyper kid. They couldn't rein me

1103
00:39:32,695 --> 00:39:33,195
in.

1104
00:39:33,974 --> 00:39:36,375
As I got to 10, 11, 12, I

1105
00:39:36,375 --> 00:39:38,454
start training for my bar mitzvah. I didn't

1106
00:39:38,454 --> 00:39:40,800
like the rabbi. He didn't like me Uh-huh.

1107
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,579
Because I didn't wanna be there.

1108
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,340
I didn't really connect

1109
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:45,460
with religion,

1110
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,664
and I didn't trust God because it was

1111
00:39:49,664 --> 00:39:51,844
the the same question, the obvious question, like,

1112
00:39:51,984 --> 00:39:54,144
how could God let this happen to a

1113
00:39:54,144 --> 00:39:55,045
6 year old?

1114
00:39:55,344 --> 00:39:57,585
Yeah. Yeah. You know, my my belief in

1115
00:39:57,585 --> 00:39:58,085
God

1116
00:39:58,460 --> 00:40:01,019
is not omnipotent and all knowing. My belief

1117
00:40:01,019 --> 00:40:02,799
in a higher power came

1118
00:40:03,819 --> 00:40:06,804
really through working the steps a few times.

1119
00:40:06,804 --> 00:40:08,344
It took me a while

1120
00:40:09,204 --> 00:40:10,025
to find

1121
00:40:10,804 --> 00:40:12,425
my version of spirituality

1122
00:40:12,885 --> 00:40:13,625
and God.

1123
00:40:14,389 --> 00:40:16,569
I found a new pair of glasses, actually.

1124
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:17,929
Did you find it retrospectively?

1125
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:19,449
I mean, oftentimes,

1126
00:40:19,989 --> 00:40:22,945
we don't know or cannot sense God working

1127
00:40:22,945 --> 00:40:25,184
in our lives until he's just done it

1128
00:40:25,184 --> 00:40:27,025
and we look back. Is that the kind

1129
00:40:27,025 --> 00:40:29,585
of awareness that you had of God was

1130
00:40:29,585 --> 00:40:30,405
in retrospect?

1131
00:40:31,184 --> 00:40:33,219
I mean, I can see where I've been

1132
00:40:33,219 --> 00:40:36,099
really blessed. I I don't think that's where

1133
00:40:36,099 --> 00:40:38,340
I I came to it. There were two

1134
00:40:38,340 --> 00:40:39,800
parts of my belief

1135
00:40:40,179 --> 00:40:41,405
in a higher power.

1136
00:40:41,965 --> 00:40:44,784
The first one is I finally reconciled myself

1137
00:40:45,565 --> 00:40:47,105
to the perspective

1138
00:40:47,965 --> 00:40:50,579
being more intellectual about it than I probably

1139
00:40:50,579 --> 00:40:53,380
should have been. Yeah. Yeah. The first sort

1140
00:40:53,380 --> 00:40:55,319
of crack in my belief

1141
00:40:55,994 --> 00:40:58,635
in being able to believe was I got

1142
00:40:58,635 --> 00:41:00,875
to the point of I'd rather believe in

1143
00:41:00,875 --> 00:41:02,954
God and be wrong than not believe and

1144
00:41:02,954 --> 00:41:03,614
be right.

1145
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,860
So that was

1146
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,320
that was my first thing. Like, I like

1147
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,320
just throw yourself into it, and if you're

1148
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,559
wrong, who cares? Right? But if there is

1149
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:13,525
no God and you're right, that's a pretty

1150
00:41:13,525 --> 00:41:15,445
sad place to be. So, like, let's go

1151
00:41:15,445 --> 00:41:16,965
with the other one. Like, that was kind

1152
00:41:16,965 --> 00:41:19,780
of where I started without so so Yeah.

1153
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:21,539
So that's a no lose right there. That's

1154
00:41:21,539 --> 00:41:23,940
a no lose situation. Right. So that allowed

1155
00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:24,440
me

1156
00:41:24,820 --> 00:41:26,760
to sort of embark on,

1157
00:41:27,219 --> 00:41:29,324
you know, the idea, okay, There's so many

1158
00:41:29,324 --> 00:41:31,664
people out there that believe so many priests,

1159
00:41:31,805 --> 00:41:34,204
clergy, rabbis out there. How can they all

1160
00:41:34,204 --> 00:41:36,364
be wrong? And I started piecing all that

1161
00:41:36,364 --> 00:41:36,864
together.

1162
00:41:37,170 --> 00:41:37,909
But then

1163
00:41:38,449 --> 00:41:40,690
where I found my god, and and I

1164
00:41:40,690 --> 00:41:42,769
just mentioned it, which was a new pair

1165
00:41:42,769 --> 00:41:45,625
of glasses Yeah. Was where, you know, Chuck

1166
00:41:46,025 --> 00:41:47,324
c talks about ego,

1167
00:41:47,945 --> 00:41:50,744
and he talks about, you know, easing God

1168
00:41:50,744 --> 00:41:52,605
out, the conscious separation

1169
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:55,269
from and that God is either everything or

1170
00:41:55,269 --> 00:41:56,090
he is nothing.

1171
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:58,869
And where I found my God and my

1172
00:41:58,949 --> 00:42:01,110
where my belief in my higher power today

1173
00:42:01,110 --> 00:42:03,625
is is that Uh-huh. I love seeing you.

1174
00:42:03,625 --> 00:42:05,864
I love seeing you in meetings, and I

1175
00:42:05,864 --> 00:42:07,244
find you to be

1176
00:42:07,784 --> 00:42:09,404
an egoless person

1177
00:42:10,264 --> 00:42:10,764
to

1178
00:42:11,065 --> 00:42:11,884
talk to,

1179
00:42:12,409 --> 00:42:14,829
to love, to hug, to be around.

1180
00:42:15,610 --> 00:42:18,570
And my belief is is that when 2

1181
00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:20,670
people or more come together

1182
00:42:21,824 --> 00:42:23,445
and deflate their ego,

1183
00:42:24,065 --> 00:42:26,385
that that part of God can come out

1184
00:42:26,385 --> 00:42:28,144
and that there's a piece of God in

1185
00:42:28,144 --> 00:42:30,069
all of us. Right? And when you go

1186
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:32,069
to a God meeting, it's because you have

1187
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:33,769
a lot of people there that aren't

1188
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:36,250
selfish or self centered in the moment,

1189
00:42:37,005 --> 00:42:39,085
but they're there to share openly and to

1190
00:42:39,085 --> 00:42:41,485
love each other. You know, my relationship with

1191
00:42:41,485 --> 00:42:43,425
my wife, my relationship with my kids

1192
00:42:43,940 --> 00:42:46,339
is as egoless as I can make it.

1193
00:42:46,339 --> 00:42:48,820
Uh-huh. And when we do, there's just a

1194
00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:50,739
bigger peace of God, and that's what I've

1195
00:42:50,739 --> 00:42:51,674
latched onto,

1196
00:42:52,295 --> 00:42:54,295
and Uh-huh. You know, what that tells me

1197
00:42:54,295 --> 00:42:56,295
is that I've gotta put goodness out there.

1198
00:42:56,295 --> 00:42:59,199
Right. I've gotta be ego less in my

1199
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:01,619
behavior with other people,

1200
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:03,619
in how I approach

1201
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:04,739
opportunities

1202
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:06,179
to help. Uh-huh.

1203
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,480
And I gotta let my peace of God

1204
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,974
out. And so Yeah. You know, that's really

1205
00:43:10,974 --> 00:43:13,614
where my higher powers come from, but it

1206
00:43:13,614 --> 00:43:16,434
lines up for me really with my sobriety.

1207
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:18,910
It lines up with my want to do

1208
00:43:18,910 --> 00:43:21,969
service work. Right. It lines up to my

1209
00:43:22,190 --> 00:43:24,750
willingness to accept help and be open with

1210
00:43:24,750 --> 00:43:26,764
other men. Well, you know what it strikes

1211
00:43:26,764 --> 00:43:28,925
me as too. And as you were just

1212
00:43:28,925 --> 00:43:31,025
describing that, I was thinking of the term

1213
00:43:31,244 --> 00:43:32,385
spiritual maturity

1214
00:43:32,925 --> 00:43:35,829
Mhmm. From the standpoint that what you're describing

1215
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:38,010
right there that you've been able to take

1216
00:43:38,070 --> 00:43:38,570
to

1217
00:43:38,869 --> 00:43:41,429
your relationships, not only with men and women

1218
00:43:41,429 --> 00:43:43,110
in the program, but with your wife and

1219
00:43:43,110 --> 00:43:45,454
with your kids, it's a mature spiritual

1220
00:43:45,994 --> 00:43:46,494
position

1221
00:43:47,275 --> 00:43:48,095
that is

1222
00:43:48,474 --> 00:43:51,035
the outcome of the work that you did

1223
00:43:51,035 --> 00:43:53,219
in the program to get to where you

1224
00:43:53,219 --> 00:43:55,139
needed to get to. What would you tell

1225
00:43:55,139 --> 00:43:58,579
somebody who's relatively new in sobriety, maybe even

1226
00:43:58,579 --> 00:44:00,934
within their first couple of years, about how

1227
00:44:00,934 --> 00:44:02,535
long it took for you to get to

1228
00:44:02,535 --> 00:44:03,355
that comfortability

1229
00:44:03,655 --> 00:44:05,494
with that or or for you to get

1230
00:44:05,494 --> 00:44:07,574
to that place where you could have this

1231
00:44:07,574 --> 00:44:10,449
belief and really believe it. You know, I

1232
00:44:10,449 --> 00:44:12,449
definitely was a fake it till you make

1233
00:44:12,449 --> 00:44:14,210
it guy. You know, I'm I'd so I

1234
00:44:14,210 --> 00:44:15,489
said I was gonna make it to my

1235
00:44:15,489 --> 00:44:17,349
1st year. I went to

1236
00:44:18,414 --> 00:44:21,635
600 meetings in my 1st year. I volunteered

1237
00:44:21,934 --> 00:44:22,755
when I didn't

1238
00:44:23,135 --> 00:44:25,454
I'd just gotten sober. I volunteered at AA

1239
00:44:25,454 --> 00:44:27,715
Intergroup when I got out of

1240
00:44:28,319 --> 00:44:28,819
treatment.

1241
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:32,480
Mhmm. I immersed myself in the program. Mhmm.

1242
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,019
Again, high bottom.

1243
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,920
I could stay off drugs. I could stay

1244
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,175
off alcohol, especially after, like, detoxing myself. Mhmm.

1245
00:44:39,315 --> 00:44:39,815
Sure.

1246
00:44:40,355 --> 00:44:43,635
You know? So it wasn't until I had

1247
00:44:43,635 --> 00:44:45,335
my core rocked

1248
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,179
that I really

1249
00:44:47,799 --> 00:44:49,579
got the test of,

1250
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:52,219
do I really wanna stay sober,

1251
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,235
and do I really wanna dig deeper?

1252
00:44:55,795 --> 00:44:58,035
And what happened was I I had been

1253
00:44:58,035 --> 00:44:58,535
dating

1254
00:44:58,835 --> 00:45:00,295
a girl in the program.

1255
00:45:00,994 --> 00:45:03,155
We'd been dating a while. We're very, very

1256
00:45:03,155 --> 00:45:03,655
close.

1257
00:45:04,434 --> 00:45:04,934
And

1258
00:45:05,340 --> 00:45:07,980
we were also part of a very tight

1259
00:45:07,980 --> 00:45:09,980
knit group of young people in sobriety. So

1260
00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:11,579
it was about 8 of us that were

1261
00:45:11,579 --> 00:45:14,155
very, very close Mhmm. Including my best

1262
00:45:14,715 --> 00:45:16,635
friend. And she actually cheated on me, mocked

1263
00:45:16,635 --> 00:45:17,855
up, with my best friend.

1264
00:45:18,235 --> 00:45:20,494
This is my core group of

1265
00:45:20,954 --> 00:45:22,414
sober, young people.

1266
00:45:22,750 --> 00:45:24,349
We go to all of our meetings together.

1267
00:45:24,349 --> 00:45:26,909
We go out to dinner afterwards. Mhmm. And

1268
00:45:26,909 --> 00:45:28,130
I got both

1269
00:45:28,829 --> 00:45:31,954
embarrassed. Right? Like Mhmm. My girlfriend slept with

1270
00:45:31,954 --> 00:45:34,914
my best friend. Everybody knows. I I can't

1271
00:45:34,914 --> 00:45:36,994
go back to my meetings. I Yeah. What

1272
00:45:36,994 --> 00:45:38,695
am I gonna do? It shook

1273
00:45:39,460 --> 00:45:42,179
me to the core and challenged everything I

1274
00:45:42,179 --> 00:45:44,119
just put together in my sobriety.

1275
00:45:44,980 --> 00:45:47,400
And and honestly ended up being

1276
00:45:48,144 --> 00:45:48,644
probably

1277
00:45:48,945 --> 00:45:50,945
one of the best things that happened to

1278
00:45:50,945 --> 00:45:53,744
me. Yeah. Number 1 is our relationship wasn't

1279
00:45:53,744 --> 00:45:55,844
healthy to begin with, but number 2,

1280
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:58,250
that was the moment.

1281
00:45:58,949 --> 00:46:00,730
That was the moment where

1282
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:02,570
line in the sand

1283
00:46:03,335 --> 00:46:06,535
Mhmm. Do I really wanna keep doing this?

1284
00:46:06,535 --> 00:46:08,795
Do I really wanna stay sober?

1285
00:46:09,655 --> 00:46:10,155
And

1286
00:46:10,859 --> 00:46:12,639
this is when I went from,

1287
00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:14,539
you know, a lot of coed and young

1288
00:46:14,539 --> 00:46:15,440
people's meetings.

1289
00:46:16,219 --> 00:46:18,255
I had to go find a different place

1290
00:46:18,255 --> 00:46:18,914
to be.

1291
00:46:19,214 --> 00:46:21,295
I see. And that's when I started going

1292
00:46:21,295 --> 00:46:24,574
to Alder Street, Avenue B, these men's meetings

1293
00:46:24,894 --> 00:46:26,914
Men's meetings. Yeah. I moved

1294
00:46:27,230 --> 00:46:29,390
from a group of young people being my

1295
00:46:29,390 --> 00:46:29,750
peer group Right.

1296
00:46:30,989 --> 00:46:31,489
To

1297
00:46:31,949 --> 00:46:34,954
surrounding myself with the men that I call

1298
00:46:34,954 --> 00:46:35,614
my heroes.

1299
00:46:36,235 --> 00:46:38,875
Mhmm. And so I transitioned my meetings. I

1300
00:46:38,875 --> 00:46:41,375
went to these meetings where there was just

1301
00:46:41,594 --> 00:46:42,094
unbelievable

1302
00:46:42,474 --> 00:46:45,719
people like Mhmm. George j and Dan d,

1303
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,280
Pat C, Todd Yeah. Like, all these guys,

1304
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,199
you know, who you know, I I would

1305
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,059
listen to these guys and they were amazing

1306
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:52,699
husbands

1307
00:46:53,244 --> 00:46:54,545
and Yeah. Fathers

1308
00:46:55,085 --> 00:46:55,744
and businessmen.

1309
00:46:56,045 --> 00:46:56,804
And Mhmm.

1310
00:46:57,244 --> 00:47:00,284
It was this transition in my life that

1311
00:47:00,284 --> 00:47:02,780
that was my maturity moment. This was my

1312
00:47:03,579 --> 00:47:04,239
I've got

1313
00:47:04,619 --> 00:47:06,780
to grow up. I've got to move out.

1314
00:47:06,780 --> 00:47:08,719
And at that point, I remember

1315
00:47:09,099 --> 00:47:10,140
vividly thinking

1316
00:47:10,934 --> 00:47:13,015
it was almost like starting over. I couldn't

1317
00:47:13,015 --> 00:47:14,695
go to the same meetings. I couldn't be

1318
00:47:14,695 --> 00:47:15,755
around the same people.

1319
00:47:16,215 --> 00:47:17,815
Well, how old were you when this happened?

1320
00:47:17,815 --> 00:47:20,010
I was 22. Okay. So so you'd been

1321
00:47:20,010 --> 00:47:22,590
in the program for 2 years. 18 months.

1322
00:47:22,650 --> 00:47:24,969
Been in the program for 18 months, hanging

1323
00:47:24,969 --> 00:47:27,849
with the young people, having that situation happen

1324
00:47:27,849 --> 00:47:30,744
to you that rocked your world there, that

1325
00:47:30,744 --> 00:47:31,565
left you

1326
00:47:32,184 --> 00:47:35,065
relatively weakened in your resolve to stay sober?

1327
00:47:35,065 --> 00:47:37,160
Or were you did you have any place

1328
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,640
to go with that, with that feeling that

1329
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,260
you had after that situation?

1330
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,880
The guy, my best friend, we actually shared

1331
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,775
the same sponsor. So I couldn't even run

1332
00:47:45,775 --> 00:47:47,695
to my sponsor. Woah. Right? So it was

1333
00:47:47,695 --> 00:47:49,375
like I was on an island. Oh my

1334
00:47:49,454 --> 00:47:51,315
yeah. But I surprised myself.

1335
00:47:52,014 --> 00:47:54,275
I had every excuse to relapse.

1336
00:47:54,769 --> 00:47:57,170
I had every excuse to run, put it

1337
00:47:57,170 --> 00:47:58,050
behind me

1338
00:47:58,530 --> 00:47:59,030
Mhmm.

1339
00:47:59,329 --> 00:48:00,710
And I didn't want to.

1340
00:48:01,489 --> 00:48:02,949
I had had enough

1341
00:48:03,375 --> 00:48:05,875
blessings to that point in the program.

1342
00:48:07,215 --> 00:48:09,394
I had immersed myself enough

1343
00:48:10,094 --> 00:48:11,875
that by this time, I had

1344
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:13,980
started my first company,

1345
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,199
at 21 years old. Right. Had enrolled back

1346
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:19,019
in school,

1347
00:48:19,855 --> 00:48:22,335
had put my life back together, and was

1348
00:48:22,335 --> 00:48:24,594
proud of the person that I was becoming.

1349
00:48:25,135 --> 00:48:27,530
Mhmm. And I I wasn't willing

1350
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:28,730
to

1351
00:48:29,429 --> 00:48:30,410
give that up,

1352
00:48:30,869 --> 00:48:32,329
and I liked

1353
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:34,329
who I was

1354
00:48:34,764 --> 00:48:35,264
sober.

1355
00:48:35,565 --> 00:48:37,585
I believe that a lot of people

1356
00:48:37,964 --> 00:48:39,565
or most people I've talked to as they

1357
00:48:39,565 --> 00:48:41,344
get sober, they have that

1358
00:48:41,980 --> 00:48:44,460
line in the sand moment where it's literally,

1359
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:46,139
you know, which is the fork in the

1360
00:48:46,139 --> 00:48:48,139
road. And that was my fork in the

1361
00:48:48,139 --> 00:48:50,295
road, but that fork in the road was

1362
00:48:50,295 --> 00:48:52,155
so important to me because

1363
00:48:53,494 --> 00:48:56,519
it tested my resolve and taught me what

1364
00:48:56,519 --> 00:48:58,679
was really important to me, and I didn't

1365
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:01,480
know that. Was that a spiritual turning point

1366
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,159
for you as well? You know, what I

1367
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:04,619
would say is yes.

1368
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,184
It was a massive

1369
00:49:07,144 --> 00:49:09,864
ego deflating moment. Yeah. I get it. And

1370
00:49:09,864 --> 00:49:11,164
that ego deflation

1371
00:49:12,105 --> 00:49:13,805
allowed me to be teachable,

1372
00:49:14,619 --> 00:49:17,039
that it allowed me to seek help.

1373
00:49:17,739 --> 00:49:19,599
It allowed me to be vulnerable,

1374
00:49:20,380 --> 00:49:21,900
and I had to go get a new

1375
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:22,224
sponsor.

1376
00:49:28,945 --> 00:49:31,139
Said, I've got the perfect person for you.

1377
00:49:31,139 --> 00:49:34,260
Uh-huh. And she introduces me to David, who

1378
00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:36,500
was my second sponsor. Now he's he's he's

1379
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:38,385
since passed away, who was

1380
00:49:38,945 --> 00:49:40,085
a gay man

1381
00:49:40,545 --> 00:49:42,644
and who took me to meetings

1382
00:49:43,105 --> 00:49:46,224
and was completely different than anybody I'd ever

1383
00:49:46,224 --> 00:49:46,780
been close

1384
00:49:47,260 --> 00:49:49,280
to. And it was amazing because

1385
00:49:49,739 --> 00:49:52,780
my first sponsor, Ron Kay, amazing guy, takes

1386
00:49:52,780 --> 00:49:54,300
a ton of people through the steps. Oh,

1387
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:55,920
yeah. Calls it by the book,

1388
00:49:56,515 --> 00:49:58,755
Loved the guy to death and forever grateful

1389
00:49:58,755 --> 00:50:01,015
for him. Right. This was somebody

1390
00:50:01,474 --> 00:50:02,775
who was a deeply

1391
00:50:03,155 --> 00:50:03,655
emotional

1392
00:50:04,035 --> 00:50:06,300
member of AA, which I was not. I

1393
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:08,460
get it. Uh-huh. And I remember David telling

1394
00:50:08,460 --> 00:50:10,800
me he said, every answer from you

1395
00:50:11,180 --> 00:50:13,660
is from your mind. Right. He says, you

1396
00:50:13,660 --> 00:50:16,505
need to start answering from your heart. And

1397
00:50:16,505 --> 00:50:17,005
David

1398
00:50:17,385 --> 00:50:19,945
broke the steps down in a different way

1399
00:50:19,945 --> 00:50:20,605
for me,

1400
00:50:21,224 --> 00:50:22,369
which were emotional,

1401
00:50:23,389 --> 00:50:23,889
spiritual,

1402
00:50:24,269 --> 00:50:25,329
and and deep

1403
00:50:25,789 --> 00:50:27,250
in a different way.

1404
00:50:27,630 --> 00:50:31,065
And he really challenged me and called me

1405
00:50:31,125 --> 00:50:32,344
on my BS

1406
00:50:33,765 --> 00:50:36,085
and challenged me deeply. And he said, you

1407
00:50:36,085 --> 00:50:38,164
know, Randy, everything you see is black or

1408
00:50:38,164 --> 00:50:40,199
white, black or white, black or white. Mhmm.

1409
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:41,719
Mhmm. He goes, I'm gonna teach you about

1410
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,500
gray. Part of it was

1411
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:45,319
learning how to

1412
00:50:46,065 --> 00:50:47,425
I think he taught me a lot about

1413
00:50:47,425 --> 00:50:49,344
how to love. I think he taught me

1414
00:50:49,344 --> 00:50:51,125
how to lot about how to be vulnerable.

1415
00:50:51,585 --> 00:50:53,105
He taught me a lot about how to

1416
00:50:53,105 --> 00:50:53,605
heal

1417
00:50:55,230 --> 00:50:57,869
and was the perfect person for me and

1418
00:50:57,869 --> 00:50:59,789
couldn't have been more different than me. I

1419
00:50:59,789 --> 00:51:01,969
remember I felt very uncomfortable

1420
00:51:03,164 --> 00:51:05,025
going to an AA meeting

1421
00:51:05,405 --> 00:51:06,144
that was

1422
00:51:06,445 --> 00:51:06,945
all

1423
00:51:07,405 --> 00:51:09,085
gay and lesbian, and I'm like, I don't

1424
00:51:09,085 --> 00:51:10,065
belong here.

1425
00:51:10,619 --> 00:51:13,179
And Yeah. He said, you do belong here

1426
00:51:13,179 --> 00:51:15,099
because you're just a member of AA. And

1427
00:51:15,099 --> 00:51:16,699
the more time I spent there, the more

1428
00:51:16,699 --> 00:51:18,539
I loved it. Yeah. You know, but it

1429
00:51:18,539 --> 00:51:20,344
was like I was afraid of what you

1430
00:51:20,344 --> 00:51:21,085
don't know.

1431
00:51:21,545 --> 00:51:23,085
And David was just,

1432
00:51:23,464 --> 00:51:25,085
you know, such an incredible,

1433
00:51:25,545 --> 00:51:26,045
loving,

1434
00:51:26,984 --> 00:51:28,605
supporting man and

1435
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,239
loved me and taught me how to be

1436
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,800
a man differently. Yeah. So he opened up

1437
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:34,860
a a spiritual

1438
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:35,739
dimension

1439
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,074
that had been closed off. A 100%.

1440
00:51:39,534 --> 00:51:41,795
I I was highly transactional

1441
00:51:42,175 --> 00:51:42,914
as a person,

1442
00:51:43,534 --> 00:51:46,230
and he opened up my heart. So how

1443
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:48,230
long did he sponsor you for before he

1444
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:51,110
passed away? So David sponsored me for about

1445
00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:53,664
5 years and then ended up moving away.

1446
00:51:54,605 --> 00:51:56,784
He moved away and and died

1447
00:51:57,164 --> 00:51:58,704
4 or 5 years later.

1448
00:51:59,164 --> 00:52:01,039
Did you get yourself another sponsor at the

1449
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:04,099
time? I did. And I went through

1450
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:06,720
sort of, like, a little bit of time

1451
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:08,320
where I had a bridge where I didn't

1452
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,304
have a sponsor. Yeah. I get it. And

1453
00:52:10,304 --> 00:52:12,864
then I remember I asked Scott b to

1454
00:52:12,864 --> 00:52:14,704
be my sponsor. Uh-huh. And I met with

1455
00:52:14,704 --> 00:52:16,164
Scott b one time.

1456
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:17,960
I don't even know if he'll remember this,

1457
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,340
and I sat down with him.

1458
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,519
And Scott b is a deep Stepwork guy.

1459
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:24,920
Just deep in the program. He's he's an

1460
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,214
onion peeler. Oh, yeah. And I I sat

1461
00:52:27,214 --> 00:52:29,934
down with Scott, and he gave me my

1462
00:52:29,934 --> 00:52:32,414
step one work, which was probably more work

1463
00:52:32,414 --> 00:52:33,589
than all the work I'd done in the

1464
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:36,869
program today. Mhmm. And, I remember leaving him.

1465
00:52:36,869 --> 00:52:38,309
I was like, well, I guess he's not

1466
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:39,530
gonna be my sponsor.

1467
00:52:40,550 --> 00:52:42,235
And I love Scott. Scott's one of my

1468
00:52:42,394 --> 00:52:44,474
favorite people. I served, and we're so close

1469
00:52:44,474 --> 00:52:46,875
to this day. Again, I I drifted for

1470
00:52:46,875 --> 00:52:49,355
a bit, but I knew I I needed

1471
00:52:49,355 --> 00:52:50,414
to stay connected.

1472
00:52:50,829 --> 00:52:52,190
And it took me a little while. It

1473
00:52:52,190 --> 00:52:54,369
took me about another 6 or 8 months.

1474
00:52:54,829 --> 00:52:56,909
And I remember I'd asked George Jay to

1475
00:52:56,909 --> 00:52:58,909
be my sponsor, and he was full at

1476
00:52:58,909 --> 00:53:00,344
the time. Yeah.

1477
00:53:00,644 --> 00:53:02,324
And I don't remember what it was, but

1478
00:53:02,324 --> 00:53:04,965
I had another tough moment, and it was

1479
00:53:04,965 --> 00:53:07,545
time to really get into the steps again.

1480
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:09,739
And I asked George Jay again, and he

1481
00:53:09,739 --> 00:53:11,739
said yes. And so George Jay has been

1482
00:53:11,739 --> 00:53:12,480
my sponsor,

1483
00:53:13,579 --> 00:53:15,739
since that time. And you guys went back

1484
00:53:15,739 --> 00:53:16,715
through the steps?

1485
00:53:17,195 --> 00:53:18,635
Yep. As a matter of fact, I'll be

1486
00:53:18,635 --> 00:53:19,135
doing,

1487
00:53:19,755 --> 00:53:20,974
my 5th step

1488
00:53:21,434 --> 00:53:23,730
tomorrow. So we're in the steps again now,

1489
00:53:24,690 --> 00:53:26,609
and I've got a I've got a 5th

1490
00:53:26,609 --> 00:53:28,130
step to do tomorrow. And I'll I'll tell

1491
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:29,909
you what's interesting about that is,

1492
00:53:30,530 --> 00:53:33,090
you know, 23 or sober now, going through

1493
00:53:33,090 --> 00:53:36,144
the steps, life is very, very full. And

1494
00:53:36,144 --> 00:53:38,565
and just I mean, I've I've had

1495
00:53:38,944 --> 00:53:41,045
just incredible blessings in my life.

1496
00:53:41,530 --> 00:53:43,210
And I was doing my 4 step this

1497
00:53:43,210 --> 00:53:44,909
time, and I was really struggling

1498
00:53:45,530 --> 00:53:46,750
because Uh-huh.

1499
00:53:47,449 --> 00:53:49,789
I wanna dig deep and I wanna put,

1500
00:53:50,295 --> 00:53:51,434
I wanna be thorough.

1501
00:53:52,054 --> 00:53:54,454
And I was doing my 4 step and

1502
00:53:54,454 --> 00:53:55,355
it's weak.

1503
00:53:55,815 --> 00:53:57,414
I'm, like, going to my 5th step and

1504
00:53:57,414 --> 00:53:58,639
it's like, I would do my fist step

1505
00:53:58,639 --> 00:53:59,699
right here on recording.

1506
00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:03,380
And what I realized is

1507
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,125
now that I live a pretty clean life

1508
00:54:07,184 --> 00:54:09,744
and I live a life that I I

1509
00:54:09,744 --> 00:54:11,605
live out loud. And so

1510
00:54:11,905 --> 00:54:14,144
what happens is I don't carry a lot

1511
00:54:14,144 --> 00:54:16,250
of resentment, anger, and fear. And when I

1512
00:54:16,250 --> 00:54:16,789
have it,

1513
00:54:17,170 --> 00:54:19,570
I clean it up pretty quickly. Yeah. There's

1514
00:54:19,570 --> 00:54:21,170
some stuff on there and there's some stuff

1515
00:54:21,170 --> 00:54:23,090
I gotta get through, but, like and there's

1516
00:54:23,090 --> 00:54:25,170
definitely some stuff I need to look inward

1517
00:54:25,170 --> 00:54:28,244
on. Yeah. Especially, you know, in my role

1518
00:54:28,244 --> 00:54:30,164
of being a family member, a father, a

1519
00:54:30,164 --> 00:54:31,684
son, what have you. There's some stuff I

1520
00:54:31,684 --> 00:54:33,289
need to look up. That's all natural. I

1521
00:54:33,289 --> 00:54:35,230
mean, you know, anytime I've done,

1522
00:54:35,610 --> 00:54:37,369
and I've done more than than 1 or

1523
00:54:37,369 --> 00:54:38,269
2 or 3,

1524
00:54:38,570 --> 00:54:40,570
probably 4 or 5 4th steps over all

1525
00:54:40,570 --> 00:54:41,594
the years. But

1526
00:54:41,994 --> 00:54:44,014
it's funny when you get to those later

1527
00:54:44,155 --> 00:54:46,734
4th steps, you do find yourself digging

1528
00:54:47,275 --> 00:54:49,119
where it has already been dug.

1529
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,760
And the cool thing about doing a 5th

1530
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,920
step with a guy who knows you pretty

1531
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,240
well is he's gonna know when you're just

1532
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,240
rehashing the same stuff you dealt with last

1533
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:00,855
time. The fact that you're willing to, on

1534
00:55:00,855 --> 00:55:03,014
a daily basis, do what you're doing to

1535
00:55:03,014 --> 00:55:06,480
keep the resentment factor to a minimal amount,

1536
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:08,000
you know, I mean, gee whiz, you can

1537
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,760
you can probably clean up almost everything you

1538
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,380
do with a 10th step every day,

1539
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,460
I think so. I mean,

1540
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,619
I I'd like to think

1541
00:55:16,465 --> 00:55:18,085
that I live pretty clean.

1542
00:55:19,105 --> 00:55:21,265
Yeah. You know, that doesn't mean I haven't

1543
00:55:21,265 --> 00:55:23,345
stepped on toes that I'm not aware of

1544
00:55:23,345 --> 00:55:26,250
or I have enough negatively affected people in

1545
00:55:26,250 --> 00:55:28,489
in ways that I haven't. You've remained human,

1546
00:55:28,489 --> 00:55:30,329
so that's a good thing. Now what's your

1547
00:55:30,329 --> 00:55:32,594
relationship like with the men that you sponsor?

1548
00:55:32,594 --> 00:55:33,894
What what does it reflect?

1549
00:55:34,434 --> 00:55:36,275
You know, I I think it goes back

1550
00:55:36,275 --> 00:55:36,775
to

1551
00:55:37,155 --> 00:55:39,974
wanting to be of service and and be,

1552
00:55:40,835 --> 00:55:41,829
ego deflating.

1553
00:55:50,174 --> 00:55:51,135
Mhmm. And,

1554
00:55:52,414 --> 00:55:53,934
I spent a lot of time as a

1555
00:55:53,934 --> 00:55:55,694
father now. I have an an 8 year

1556
00:55:55,694 --> 00:55:58,079
old daughter and 11 year old son. Mhmm.

1557
00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:01,119
And I have an incredible wife who's such

1558
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:02,960
a blessing to me and Did you meet

1559
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,860
her in the program?

1560
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,355
So, no. She was my cousin's best friend

1561
00:56:07,355 --> 00:56:09,355
from childhood. We actually have a picture at

1562
00:56:09,355 --> 00:56:10,815
summer camp together

1563
00:56:11,275 --> 00:56:13,114
Oh, wow. When we were 12. When I

1564
00:56:13,114 --> 00:56:15,275
got sober at 20, that was one of

1565
00:56:15,275 --> 00:56:16,909
the big challenging things is how am I

1566
00:56:16,909 --> 00:56:19,069
ever gonna find somebody? How am I ever

1567
00:56:19,069 --> 00:56:20,989
gonna get out and date and,

1568
00:56:22,429 --> 00:56:23,250
and and

1569
00:56:23,630 --> 00:56:24,030
just,

1570
00:56:24,429 --> 00:56:27,295
found somebody who's perfect for me. So your

1571
00:56:27,295 --> 00:56:29,614
relationship has been informing the way that you

1572
00:56:29,614 --> 00:56:31,235
work with guys on their relationship.

1573
00:56:31,535 --> 00:56:34,094
Absolutely. And being a father you know, I

1574
00:56:34,094 --> 00:56:37,119
was working with this guy and I said,

1575
00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:39,519
you know, your primary purpose is to stay

1576
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:40,019
sober

1577
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,819
and help others to recover from alcoholism.

1578
00:56:43,494 --> 00:56:45,035
Your secondary purpose

1579
00:56:45,414 --> 00:56:47,974
is to repair the relationship with your daughter.

1580
00:56:47,974 --> 00:56:50,934
Mhmm. And everything else doesn't matter. Mhmm. How's

1581
00:56:50,934 --> 00:56:53,329
he been doing with that? Great. I'm so

1582
00:56:53,329 --> 00:56:54,710
proud of him for

1583
00:56:55,410 --> 00:56:55,910
reengaging,

1584
00:56:56,449 --> 00:56:57,590
leaning in,

1585
00:56:58,130 --> 00:57:00,150
and, you know, he did a great job.

1586
00:57:00,369 --> 00:57:02,464
Being estranged is tough because you can't push

1587
00:57:02,464 --> 00:57:03,364
your way back.

1588
00:57:04,864 --> 00:57:06,885
And his job there was

1589
00:57:07,905 --> 00:57:08,724
he was

1590
00:57:09,824 --> 00:57:11,829
rock steady and reliable

1591
00:57:12,690 --> 00:57:14,150
and kinda let

1592
00:57:14,450 --> 00:57:17,329
his daughter and his daughter's mother Mhmm. Come

1593
00:57:17,329 --> 00:57:19,349
to him seeing that he's reliable

1594
00:57:19,809 --> 00:57:20,309
and

1595
00:57:21,375 --> 00:57:24,414
accountable, and it's just been a beautiful thing

1596
00:57:24,414 --> 00:57:25,074
to watch.

1597
00:57:25,454 --> 00:57:28,094
And so, you know, my relationship with the

1598
00:57:28,094 --> 00:57:28,594
guys

1599
00:57:28,974 --> 00:57:31,460
I work with, I I I I tend

1600
00:57:31,460 --> 00:57:33,000
to take myself too seriously.

1601
00:57:33,460 --> 00:57:35,400
I have a very, very busy

1602
00:57:36,099 --> 00:57:37,940
work schedule, life schedule.

1603
00:57:39,265 --> 00:57:40,164
I wish

1604
00:57:40,465 --> 00:57:43,344
I had more time with people in recovery.

1605
00:57:43,344 --> 00:57:45,285
What I've realized about myself

1606
00:57:45,905 --> 00:57:46,405
is

1607
00:57:46,869 --> 00:57:48,789
in some ways, and I I think this

1608
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:51,050
is because of my experience with David,

1609
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:54,150
I think I'm a better second sponsor than

1610
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:54,969
first sponsor.

1611
00:57:56,215 --> 00:57:57,735
And so I I I don't I don't

1612
00:57:57,735 --> 00:57:59,815
know what that says about me. And maybe,

1613
00:57:59,815 --> 00:58:01,494
you know, like, I have guys that come

1614
00:58:01,494 --> 00:58:01,994
in

1615
00:58:02,614 --> 00:58:04,635
and the guys who are, like,

1616
00:58:04,949 --> 00:58:08,469
on the edge and just new and just

1617
00:58:08,469 --> 00:58:11,690
trying out. Yeah. I don't find that

1618
00:58:12,344 --> 00:58:14,105
maybe it's the I, you know, I I

1619
00:58:14,105 --> 00:58:16,105
see guys that and they sponsor so many

1620
00:58:16,105 --> 00:58:18,184
guys. I honor that so much, and I

1621
00:58:18,184 --> 00:58:19,484
I wanna be there.

1622
00:58:19,784 --> 00:58:20,925
It's just I don't

1623
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:22,699
think that I

1624
00:58:23,319 --> 00:58:26,039
connect as well, and I'm as good of

1625
00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:28,059
a guide as I am against

1626
00:58:28,894 --> 00:58:30,974
men who have been through the steps once.

1627
00:58:30,974 --> 00:58:31,474
Mhmm.

1628
00:58:31,855 --> 00:58:34,735
And I'm helping them find a program for

1629
00:58:34,735 --> 00:58:35,235
living,

1630
00:58:35,630 --> 00:58:38,449
And I'm helping them rework the steps on

1631
00:58:38,910 --> 00:58:40,769
people, places, and things. And,

1632
00:58:41,949 --> 00:58:44,369
I love taking people to the steps actually

1633
00:58:44,590 --> 00:58:46,045
in a new pair of glasses.

1634
00:58:46,664 --> 00:58:48,905
It it's just a little bit different, and

1635
00:58:48,905 --> 00:58:50,585
I think part of it is is the

1636
00:58:50,585 --> 00:58:51,085
availability.

1637
00:58:51,465 --> 00:58:53,704
It's hard for me to be on call

1638
00:58:53,704 --> 00:58:54,605
at all times.

1639
00:58:55,210 --> 00:58:56,889
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's also part of

1640
00:58:56,889 --> 00:58:59,289
your maturing as a man, as a husband,

1641
00:58:59,289 --> 00:59:00,109
as a father.

1642
00:59:00,409 --> 00:59:03,464
You're gaining different life experiences now in your

1643
00:59:03,464 --> 00:59:03,964
sobriety

1644
00:59:04,585 --> 00:59:07,545
that speak to different things that men need

1645
00:59:07,545 --> 00:59:09,219
when they come to you to be their

1646
00:59:09,300 --> 00:59:12,099
sponsor. And for me, what I found is

1647
00:59:12,099 --> 00:59:13,699
I have a handful of guys who I've

1648
00:59:13,699 --> 00:59:15,960
sponsored for going on 30 years.

1649
00:59:16,664 --> 00:59:19,065
I've got others who I've sponsored for for

1650
00:59:19,065 --> 00:59:21,144
lesser amounts of time. But some of the

1651
00:59:21,144 --> 00:59:23,144
guys that I've gotten more recently have been

1652
00:59:23,144 --> 00:59:25,940
men who have had sponsors who passed away

1653
00:59:25,940 --> 00:59:27,000
or whatever else.

1654
00:59:27,380 --> 00:59:29,859
But what's interesting about it is I find

1655
00:59:29,859 --> 00:59:31,619
that one of the best ways I can

1656
00:59:31,619 --> 00:59:33,964
be of service to the new guy is

1657
00:59:33,964 --> 00:59:35,405
to hook him up with one of the

1658
00:59:35,405 --> 00:59:37,565
guys I sponsor. And you've seen me do

1659
00:59:37,565 --> 00:59:39,724
this before in meetings. I'll grab guys and

1660
00:59:39,724 --> 00:59:40,224
say,

1661
00:59:40,525 --> 00:59:42,340
you know, come over here to one of

1662
00:59:42,340 --> 00:59:44,099
my sponsors, and I'll be talking to the

1663
00:59:44,099 --> 00:59:45,539
guy who's just come in. And I'll I'll

1664
00:59:45,539 --> 00:59:47,219
put them together. I'll say, you need to

1665
00:59:47,219 --> 00:59:49,300
trade phone numbers, and you guys need to

1666
00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:52,414
talk tomorrow And just do that. And when

1667
00:59:52,414 --> 00:59:53,474
it's worked out,

1668
00:59:54,094 --> 00:59:55,795
later on, I can say, well,

1669
00:59:56,255 --> 00:59:57,940
I guess I was a pretty good sponsor

1670
00:59:57,940 --> 00:59:59,780
to this man because he's being a good

1671
00:59:59,780 --> 01:00:02,440
sponsor to the next man. And, you know,

1672
01:00:03,059 --> 01:00:05,380
being grateful instead of proud of myself, I'm

1673
01:00:05,380 --> 01:00:07,264
grateful that I can be of service in

1674
01:00:07,264 --> 01:00:09,344
that way. I see a guy like you

1675
01:00:09,344 --> 01:00:11,585
who's got all these great life experiences of

1676
01:00:11,585 --> 01:00:14,309
being a successful businessman, successful father,

1677
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:16,949
a great sponsor, a great friend, all these

1678
01:00:16,949 --> 01:00:18,890
other great things. It's understandable

1679
01:00:19,590 --> 01:00:20,730
that you're stretched

1680
01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:21,849
because

1681
01:00:22,315 --> 01:00:23,694
you've got a young family.

1682
01:00:24,155 --> 01:00:25,934
And when my family was young,

1683
01:00:26,394 --> 01:00:27,775
when my kids were young

1684
01:00:28,074 --> 01:00:29,855
and I wanted to go to a meeting,

1685
01:00:30,074 --> 01:00:32,809
I knew and my wife knew that that

1686
01:00:32,809 --> 01:00:35,450
was indeed taking some time away from the

1687
01:00:35,450 --> 01:00:38,410
rest of the family. And so balancing that

1688
01:00:38,410 --> 01:00:40,554
has been of over the years, it was

1689
01:00:40,554 --> 01:00:42,034
a big challenge, but I was able to

1690
01:00:42,034 --> 01:00:43,635
go to other men who had done it

1691
01:00:43,635 --> 01:00:45,714
successfully. You're the you're that kind of guy

1692
01:00:45,714 --> 01:00:47,875
too, aren't you? Oh, yeah. I mean, I

1693
01:00:47,954 --> 01:00:49,414
goes back to my compulsivity.

1694
01:00:49,890 --> 01:00:52,390
Right? So Yeah. My work week is

1695
01:00:52,930 --> 01:00:55,410
a 50 to 60 hour work week. I

1696
01:00:55,410 --> 01:00:58,369
can't help myself. I've had success. I run

1697
01:00:58,369 --> 01:00:59,465
a company. Sure.

1698
01:01:00,105 --> 01:01:01,785
You know, and then my the rest of

1699
01:01:01,785 --> 01:01:03,704
my time is my family. And, you know,

1700
01:01:03,704 --> 01:01:05,625
I tell people this, and and I tell

1701
01:01:05,625 --> 01:01:06,840
people this inside and outside

1702
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,714
I company. You now know everything about me.

1703
01:01:17,775 --> 01:01:18,835
I don't have hobbies.

1704
01:01:19,375 --> 01:01:21,135
I I don't. I love what I do

1705
01:01:21,135 --> 01:01:22,974
for a living. I love the impact that

1706
01:01:22,974 --> 01:01:23,780
I have there.

1707
01:01:24,099 --> 01:01:26,039
My hobbies tend to be,

1708
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:27,719
some of

1709
01:01:28,179 --> 01:01:29,000
the organizations

1710
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:31,880
that I work with where we can influence,

1711
01:01:32,484 --> 01:01:34,484
you know, but I live out loud about

1712
01:01:34,484 --> 01:01:35,224
my sobriety.

1713
01:01:35,525 --> 01:01:38,085
Yeah. Almost anybody that has a meal with

1714
01:01:38,085 --> 01:01:40,264
me, even working with me,

1715
01:01:40,869 --> 01:01:42,789
knows I'm sober. And the reason is is

1716
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:46,150
that That's cool. I want anybody whoever needs

1717
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:48,335
help or knows somebody that needs help

1718
01:01:48,894 --> 01:01:50,414
to know that they can reach out to

1719
01:01:50,414 --> 01:01:52,414
me. Yeah. That happened recently. I had a

1720
01:01:52,414 --> 01:01:54,034
very dear friend in the program.

1721
01:01:54,574 --> 01:01:55,474
Her husband,

1722
01:01:56,014 --> 01:01:57,695
turns out, has been an alcoholic for several

1723
01:01:57,695 --> 01:02:00,180
years. She did not know who to call,

1724
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:02,260
and I got the call.

1725
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:03,380
And

1726
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,140
I want that call,

1727
01:02:05,565 --> 01:02:07,265
And I am not embarrassed

1728
01:02:07,644 --> 01:02:10,785
that I am sober. I am so proud

1729
01:02:10,925 --> 01:02:11,425
because

1730
01:02:12,204 --> 01:02:13,789
my heroes in in the program

1731
01:02:14,730 --> 01:02:16,329
taught me to be proud of it. And

1732
01:02:16,329 --> 01:02:17,929
grateful at at the same time. I mean

1733
01:02:18,089 --> 01:02:20,329
Totally. God is actually in in a lot

1734
01:02:20,329 --> 01:02:22,744
of ways, I think he places us in

1735
01:02:22,744 --> 01:02:25,065
situations and with people that we need to

1736
01:02:25,065 --> 01:02:26,204
be with. And,

1737
01:02:26,985 --> 01:02:28,869
one of the great things about doing this

1738
01:02:29,110 --> 01:02:31,510
interview show is that these are people I've

1739
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:32,650
known my whole sobriety,

1740
01:02:33,030 --> 01:02:35,590
some of them, and yet I I really

1741
01:02:35,590 --> 01:02:37,405
don't know that much about them. You know?

1742
01:02:37,405 --> 01:02:39,485
We we learn about each other. Even if

1743
01:02:39,485 --> 01:02:41,164
we go out to lunch or dinner from

1744
01:02:41,164 --> 01:02:43,485
time to time, the opportunity to really get

1745
01:02:43,485 --> 01:02:45,005
to know people and get to know what's

1746
01:02:45,005 --> 01:02:45,840
in their heart,

1747
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:49,039
frankly, it it takes time. It takes time.

1748
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:49,539
And,

1749
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,200
you know, when you're a young father and

1750
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,039
you're running a business and you're working a

1751
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:55,035
lot and you're trying to stay sober by

1752
01:02:55,035 --> 01:02:56,635
doing as many meetings as you can or

1753
01:02:56,635 --> 01:02:58,715
sponsoring as many people as you can, there

1754
01:02:58,715 --> 01:03:00,795
isn't time for anything else. That's been my

1755
01:03:00,795 --> 01:03:03,109
experience. But later on, the kids will grow

1756
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:04,710
up. They'll go to college. They'll move away

1757
01:03:04,710 --> 01:03:05,369
from home,

1758
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:08,230
and you'll find yourself with some additional time

1759
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:09,190
on your hands. And,

1760
01:03:09,864 --> 01:03:11,385
so whatever it is that you enjoy I

1761
01:03:11,385 --> 01:03:13,065
mean, I I love the fact that that

1762
01:03:13,065 --> 01:03:14,425
I can go to a lot more meetings

1763
01:03:14,425 --> 01:03:15,945
now than I could when my kids were

1764
01:03:15,945 --> 01:03:17,789
small. Yeah. I I look forward to I

1765
01:03:17,869 --> 01:03:18,989
you know, and the reason is is that

1766
01:03:18,989 --> 01:03:20,590
I see all my best friends. The, you

1767
01:03:20,590 --> 01:03:22,269
know, the one thing I've done right the

1768
01:03:22,269 --> 01:03:25,054
whole time besides, you know, not drinking is

1769
01:03:25,295 --> 01:03:27,054
I stay connected to guys in the program

1770
01:03:27,054 --> 01:03:29,315
because I love these guys. It's not work.

1771
01:03:29,375 --> 01:03:31,375
Right? And when my ass is falling off

1772
01:03:31,375 --> 01:03:32,434
or I need to talk,

1773
01:03:32,974 --> 01:03:34,414
I pick up the phone and I call

1774
01:03:34,414 --> 01:03:36,710
Todd or I call George or I call

1775
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:39,030
Dan or I call George g. I mean

1776
01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:41,190
and and it's not work to call them

1777
01:03:41,190 --> 01:03:41,690
because

1778
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:43,670
they love me and I love them, and

1779
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:44,730
it's just easy.

1780
01:03:45,335 --> 01:03:45,835
And,

1781
01:03:46,695 --> 01:03:47,195
this,

1782
01:03:47,655 --> 01:03:49,894
podcast, thank you for doing it. Yeah. Because

1783
01:03:49,894 --> 01:03:52,535
during COVID, it became even more difficult to

1784
01:03:52,535 --> 01:03:53,355
stay connected

1785
01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:56,400
and, you know, going on Zoom meetings, but,

1786
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,920
you know, literally listening to podcasts between work

1787
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:01,059
and home driving

1788
01:04:02,324 --> 01:04:04,965
or going out for a run and and

1789
01:04:04,965 --> 01:04:07,065
listening to it and plugging in,

1790
01:04:07,364 --> 01:04:09,639
you know, those are the moments you know,

1791
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,920
I went to, an international convention. I've I've

1792
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,440
been to a few of mine. If anybody's

1793
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,359
listening, there's one thing you should do in

1794
01:04:16,359 --> 01:04:17,019
your sobriety.

1795
01:04:17,875 --> 01:04:20,375
Get to the international convention. Nothing like

1796
01:04:20,675 --> 01:04:22,675
you know, first one I went to was,

1797
01:04:22,994 --> 01:04:26,434
was 18 months sober, and, I remember being

1798
01:04:26,434 --> 01:04:28,199
in a stadium full of people

1799
01:04:28,500 --> 01:04:29,000
and

1800
01:04:29,780 --> 01:04:32,579
saying the serenity prayer and saying the Lord's

1801
01:04:32,579 --> 01:04:35,619
prayer, and it's just you're with 50,000 people

1802
01:04:35,619 --> 01:04:37,944
and they're all like you. Everybody loves you

1803
01:04:37,944 --> 01:04:39,964
and you love them, and it's just awesome.

1804
01:04:40,824 --> 01:04:43,065
And to walk around the city and just

1805
01:04:43,065 --> 01:04:45,250
be greeting people in the streets, you see

1806
01:04:45,250 --> 01:04:46,929
that little tag around their neck, and you

1807
01:04:46,929 --> 01:04:48,530
know that they're they're a brother or a

1808
01:04:48,530 --> 01:04:50,289
sister. Well, that's one of the things I

1809
01:04:50,289 --> 01:04:52,389
like about Zoom now is that I can

1810
01:04:52,449 --> 01:04:52,750
I can participate internationally, whereas when I've gone

1811
01:04:52,750 --> 01:04:53,170
to the conventions, it's always neat to meet

1812
01:04:53,170 --> 01:04:53,715
people from,

1813
01:05:01,635 --> 01:05:02,135
extraordinary

1814
01:05:02,675 --> 01:05:05,529
life right now? And to hear you speak

1815
01:05:05,529 --> 01:05:06,650
about these other people

1816
01:05:07,130 --> 01:05:09,369
what's cool about the podcast is that when

1817
01:05:09,369 --> 01:05:11,764
you're listening, you're listening to people you know.

1818
01:05:12,224 --> 01:05:14,784
Yeah. And so you can listen from a

1819
01:05:14,784 --> 01:05:15,844
different perspective,

1820
01:05:16,465 --> 01:05:18,659
a perspective of knowing what's in their heart

1821
01:05:18,819 --> 01:05:20,739
and hearing them express it in a in

1822
01:05:20,739 --> 01:05:23,699
a really grateful way. And to me, your

1823
01:05:23,699 --> 01:05:25,799
story is really inspiring, and

1824
01:05:26,099 --> 01:05:28,144
it's still evolving. I mean, you've been sober

1825
01:05:28,144 --> 01:05:30,944
23 years now. You're still a relatively young

1826
01:05:30,944 --> 01:05:33,744
man. And and with 2 kids, you know,

1827
01:05:33,744 --> 01:05:36,170
the the interesting thing is, the time frame

1828
01:05:36,170 --> 01:05:37,069
here is interesting

1829
01:05:37,369 --> 01:05:39,449
because you've got 2 kids who it's not

1830
01:05:39,449 --> 01:05:41,469
gonna be long before they're of that age.

1831
01:05:41,929 --> 01:05:42,429
Yes.

1832
01:05:42,809 --> 01:05:44,094
I hope that

1833
01:05:44,714 --> 01:05:46,734
they stay away from drugs and alcohol.

1834
01:05:47,514 --> 01:05:49,674
Just recently, and I I this is something

1835
01:05:49,674 --> 01:05:50,335
I'll be

1836
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:53,920
processing with my sponsor. I need to start

1837
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,260
thinking about how to message to my kids,

1838
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,344
you know, about me being sober. They they've

1839
01:05:59,344 --> 01:06:01,664
never known obviously, they're 8 and 11. I've

1840
01:06:01,664 --> 01:06:03,125
been sober 23 years.

1841
01:06:03,425 --> 01:06:05,184
At what point do you start sharing with

1842
01:06:05,184 --> 01:06:06,900
them that, you know, your dad had a

1843
01:06:06,900 --> 01:06:08,980
problem and I'm sober now and I'm grateful

1844
01:06:08,980 --> 01:06:10,980
to be sober. And I I, you know,

1845
01:06:10,980 --> 01:06:12,500
I don't know how to do that. I

1846
01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:14,454
don't know how to have that conversation, but

1847
01:06:14,535 --> 01:06:16,454
I know who to have that conversation with

1848
01:06:16,454 --> 01:06:18,155
that can tell me how to do that.

1849
01:06:18,215 --> 01:06:18,954
I'm 43,

1850
01:06:19,255 --> 01:06:21,494
and everything I go through, it's like I

1851
01:06:21,494 --> 01:06:23,690
have a cheat code for life. And that

1852
01:06:23,690 --> 01:06:24,750
cheat code is

1853
01:06:25,050 --> 01:06:26,489
when I don't know what to do, it's

1854
01:06:26,489 --> 01:06:28,510
either in the books or in the steps.

1855
01:06:29,130 --> 01:06:30,795
And when I still know what to do,

1856
01:06:30,795 --> 01:06:32,155
I pick up the phone and I can

1857
01:06:32,155 --> 01:06:33,855
call people to tell me how to do.

1858
01:06:33,914 --> 01:06:35,855
I have this incredible network,

1859
01:06:36,155 --> 01:06:39,355
this incredible program around me that had I

1860
01:06:39,355 --> 01:06:42,300
not gotten sober, I would have never been

1861
01:06:42,300 --> 01:06:44,239
able to be a successful

1862
01:06:44,539 --> 01:06:48,375
husband or father or businessman. I tell people

1863
01:06:48,434 --> 01:06:50,914
I spent some of my most formative years,

1864
01:06:50,914 --> 01:06:53,234
the the time that you're really shaping your

1865
01:06:53,234 --> 01:06:54,030
social function.

1866
01:06:54,750 --> 01:06:55,489
I spent

1867
01:06:55,789 --> 01:06:58,750
arresting my social function with drugs. Uh-huh. You

1868
01:06:58,750 --> 01:07:00,690
know, my natural tendency

1869
01:07:01,605 --> 01:07:02,505
is still

1870
01:07:02,804 --> 01:07:04,585
in a lot of ways to think

1871
01:07:04,964 --> 01:07:07,525
like an addict, and it's taken a lot

1872
01:07:07,525 --> 01:07:10,099
of time and energy and work, and it's

1873
01:07:10,099 --> 01:07:10,599
taken

1874
01:07:10,980 --> 01:07:12,119
a lot of guidance

1875
01:07:12,819 --> 01:07:14,760
to shape me into

1876
01:07:15,299 --> 01:07:16,119
a vulnerable,

1877
01:07:16,744 --> 01:07:17,244
sober,

1878
01:07:17,625 --> 01:07:19,405
hopefully lower ego

1879
01:07:20,105 --> 01:07:22,744
man. Yeah. And it's all because of the

1880
01:07:22,744 --> 01:07:24,505
gifts of the program. Because left to my

1881
01:07:24,505 --> 01:07:25,244
own tendencies,

1882
01:07:26,010 --> 01:07:28,250
I'm an addict. The the wiring is still

1883
01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:28,909
in place.

1884
01:07:29,530 --> 01:07:30,589
You know, for me,

1885
01:07:31,050 --> 01:07:32,974
I have to acknowledge the fact

1886
01:07:33,454 --> 01:07:35,695
that left to my own devices, left to

1887
01:07:35,695 --> 01:07:37,855
a period of time where I skip meetings

1888
01:07:37,855 --> 01:07:40,575
and when I stop returning calls or stop

1889
01:07:40,575 --> 01:07:42,515
praying or stop being of service,

1890
01:07:43,619 --> 01:07:44,359
that hardwiring

1891
01:07:44,739 --> 01:07:47,480
will carry me right back to behavior,

1892
01:07:47,940 --> 01:07:50,339
and it'll be worse because it it it

1893
01:07:50,339 --> 01:07:52,594
will have come at the expense of an

1894
01:07:52,594 --> 01:07:55,235
otherwise good program. Whereas, you know, when we're

1895
01:07:55,235 --> 01:07:57,075
first sober, you know, what do we got

1896
01:07:57,075 --> 01:07:58,994
it to compare it to? How life was

1897
01:07:58,994 --> 01:08:01,235
before we got sober? But when I see

1898
01:08:01,235 --> 01:08:01,699
guys

1899
01:08:02,179 --> 01:08:04,019
slip, one of the first things I ask

1900
01:08:04,019 --> 01:08:04,760
them is,

1901
01:08:05,219 --> 01:08:07,460
what was true about your sobriety that stopped

1902
01:08:07,460 --> 01:08:09,619
being true? What was there that you were

1903
01:08:09,619 --> 01:08:11,505
doing or not doing that was helping you

1904
01:08:11,505 --> 01:08:14,224
stay sober that you changed to the point

1905
01:08:14,224 --> 01:08:16,784
that we you drank? And so it it's

1906
01:08:16,784 --> 01:08:19,486
beautiful to keep it that humility that you're

1907
01:08:19,486 --> 01:08:21,430
talking about. And I I see you as

1908
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:23,376
a humble man, and I'm glad to see

1909
01:08:23,376 --> 01:08:25,320
you on a regular basis now. This is

1910
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,265
what I needed today was to talk to

1911
01:08:27,265 --> 01:08:27,994
you and just,

1912
01:08:28,795 --> 01:08:29,935
kinda hook into,

1913
01:08:30,555 --> 01:08:33,195
Randy l. The times flown by, man. I

1914
01:08:33,195 --> 01:08:35,055
think that's how it is with us brothers.

1915
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:37,510
I love you, man. I and I appreciate

1916
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:39,350
you and and the man that you are

1917
01:08:39,350 --> 01:08:41,369
in recovery and and such

1918
01:08:41,989 --> 01:08:43,449
a center point of

1919
01:08:44,564 --> 01:08:45,064
recovery,

1920
01:08:45,685 --> 01:08:48,164
for the men in in Houston and what

1921
01:08:48,164 --> 01:08:50,324
you've done with this podcast. It's just this

1922
01:08:50,324 --> 01:08:53,045
is such a gift and and knowing you

1923
01:08:53,045 --> 01:08:54,880
is a gift. Thanks for doing this today,

1924
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:56,100
brother. You're the best.

1925
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,220
Absolutely. Love you, brother. Thank you so much.

1926
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:02,020
Well, my friends, that's a wrap for today's

1927
01:09:02,164 --> 01:09:04,645
episode of AA Recovery Interviews. Thank you for

1928
01:09:04,645 --> 01:09:07,604
tuning in. If you enjoyed AA Recovery Interviews,

1929
01:09:07,604 --> 01:09:09,364
will you please tell others how to listen

1930
01:09:09,364 --> 01:09:11,630
to it? It's another helping hand we can

1931
01:09:11,630 --> 01:09:13,729
all extend to alcoholics everywhere.

1932
01:09:14,510 --> 01:09:16,349
If you want to contact me directly with

1933
01:09:16,349 --> 01:09:18,210
any comments, questions, or suggestions,

1934
01:09:18,695 --> 01:09:19,994
simply email howard@aarecoveryinterviews.com.

1935
01:09:22,774 --> 01:09:25,255
By the way, this podcast strictly adheres to

1936
01:09:25,255 --> 01:09:26,395
AA's 12 traditions

1937
01:09:26,699 --> 01:09:29,520
and all general service office guidelines for safeguarding

1938
01:09:29,659 --> 01:09:30,880
anonymity online.

1939
01:09:31,420 --> 01:09:33,119
I pay all production costs.

1940
01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:35,725
AA Recovery interviews and my guests do not

1941
01:09:35,725 --> 01:09:38,145
speak for or represent AA at large.

1942
01:09:38,524 --> 01:09:40,685
This podcast is simply my way of giving

1943
01:09:40,685 --> 01:09:41,505
back to AA

1944
01:09:41,885 --> 01:09:43,805
that which has been so freely given to

1945
01:09:43,805 --> 01:09:46,829
me. The next episode of AA Recovery Interviews

1946
01:09:46,829 --> 01:09:49,010
is on the way. So keep coming back.

1947
01:09:49,069 --> 01:09:50,289
It'll be here soon.