Welcome back, my friends to AA recovery interviews.
I'm your host, Howard l, and I'm an
alcoholic.
So ever since January 1, 1988,
one day at a time. I'm grateful you've
joined us.
AA Recovery Interviews is the podcast where Alcoholics
Anonymous members from around the world
share their extraordinary stories of experience, strength, and
hope.
There are more than 150 awesome interviews in
the AA Recovery Interviews podcast series.
Listen to every episode on any podcast app
or at the website, aarecoveryinterviews.com.
Each story is a powerful testimony of the
recovery available to all in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Today's an encore episode of my interview with
Randy L originally released on August 10th, 2021.
Randy has been a sober member of Alcoholics
Anonymous
since July
1998.
My guest on today's podcast is my friend,
Randy l, a relatively young man who got
sober before he was even old enough to
take a legal drink.
Randy's childhood was ruled by compulsive behavior,
limited attention, and hyperactivity.
Later diagnosed with ADHD,
Randy was treated with meds that worked but
left him craving a calmer and steadier mental
state.
He soon found relief in alcohol and marijuana.
Though the damage occurred only during his teenage
years,
Randy's rise to full blown addiction was both
rapid and severe.
He exploited every opportunity to drink and use
in high school and early college.
Increasingly isolated from his family,
his behavior soon deteriorated into that of a
drug selling addict and alcoholic
whose flawed belief that he was getting away
with it fooled nobody but himself.
Fortunately, his family arranged a very dramatic rescue
plan for Randy that landed him in a
90 day treatment program from which he emerged
into accelerating participation
in AA.
At only 20 years of age, Randy relaunched
his life by getting a sponsor,
working the steps, going to meetings, and establishing
a close fellowship in the program
with older men who taught him how to
live sober.
Though Randy labels himself as a high bottom
alcoholic,
the work he's done in the program
demonstrates the deep dive he's taken in understanding
his own life and the behavior that influenced
his personal growth and success.
A particular insight was a highly traumatic event
he experienced when he was 6 years old
that greatly informed his thinking and actions throughout
his sobriety.
Today, Randy's total commitment to AA,
his young family, and the business he runs
makes for a full and busy life. But
the men he's both sponsored and befriended
will tell you that he's a man of
passion and empathy
who is always ready to help.
From firsthand knowledge, I know that to be
true, and I'm confident you'll find his story
both compelling and uplifting.
So without further ado, let me introduce you
to my good friend and AA brother, Randy
l.
Randy, I'm an alcoholic and addict. Hey, Randy.
I'm glad you could be here today. Thanks
for joining me. So you're one of those
ANDA guys, aren't you? An alcoholic and
and an addict.
Yeah. I you know, it's funny because I
was an addict really first and
found myself
to be an alcoholic
second.
Yeah. I became a believer that Uh-huh. At
the bottom of the bottle was my drug
of choice. Yeah. I get that. You know,
my my story really
was more one of
compulsivity
and addiction around drugs,
and,
you know, that was the high that I
wanted.
But when it wasn't available,
I would use alcohol as a substitution.
You've joined a really august
group of people who I've interviewed. Maybe more
than half of them have the same kind
of story where they started out maybe with
both alcohol and drugs. But along the way,
especially as they were younger,
drugs were actually easier to obtain than alcohol.
First time I tried drugs, I was 16
years old. Uh-huh. Was at a party. I
I had moved to Houston
and, was at a party with a lot
of people I didn't know. A Coke can
was being passed around. It was a drinking
party, but a Coke can was being passed
around where
people were smoking weed with a Coke can,
and I heard about it but never seen
it. Mhmm. I just kinda jumped in line
because it was the thing to do.
Try it the first time and literally had
no effect,
but felt,
camaraderie,
felt some acceptance, felt a part of, and
I was I was new to Houston at
the time.
And,
quickly sought it out a second time, and
it wasn't because, you know, of a feeling
of effect. It was actually a feeling of
acceptance, but ended up the second time getting
high and and just loving the feeling.
So you were doing it with the crowd
when you first started, and you were 16.
I didn't really start smoking dope till I
was
late 17, almost 18, when I was about
ready to go into college.
Lots of people started a lot earlier.
So prior to 16,
what what were you doing? Did you what
was what was your your family of origin
like? Do you have any, alcoholism or drug
addiction going back in your family? No. I
mean, I would I would say is that
there is definitely cases of just overall
compulsivity.
Uh-huh. I get it. Yeah. But I was,
you know, I broke the mold in my
family. I I was,
you know, first to rehab, first to sobriety.
Uh-huh.
And in fact,
it wasn't till years later that I met
a cousin of mine who's actually further ahead
of me in sobriety. Mhmm. But Felice is
a cousin of mine, and we met at,
George Jay's.
Yeah. So it was but, you know, it
was I I was the first one. I
didn't have a lot of experience. I didn't
know what I was getting into.
Uh-huh.
And in fact, for me, the first drug
I was actually introduced to was prescription.
You know, I was diagnosed with ADHD at
the age of 15, and what they did
with me is they gave me prescription speed.
Okay.
And,
they sped me up and I hated it.
Like Adderall or something like that? So it
was Dexedrine.
At the time, they prescribed it for me
and it worked great. Uh-huh. I mean, it
would it
I skin. I was jittery.
And what happened was when I found weed,
I could start regulating myself.
Mhmm. So I could go up with the
prescriptions they were giving me, and,
you know, after school or at night, I
started smoking weed with friends. And
there was a lot that was going on
there that I loved. Mhmm. After moving here
to Houston, it was the feeling of acceptance
in a where I didn't know anybody. I
could quickly adapt into the group.
As long as you were, you know, sitting
in a circle or passing around, you know,
you were instantly accepted.
But the other thing was is that I
started that sort of chemical balancing of myself,
and that, of course, escalated as time went
on. Uh-huh. But I found a tremendous amount
of comfort in calming my mind
and slowing myself down. You were calming your
mind and slowing yourself down from the speeding
up that you were getting from the Dexedrine.
Yep. There are a lot of people of
your generation. Although I'm sounding like an old
man now, but what I'm what I mean
is that it seems like the ADHD and
the ADD drugs,
started to get really popular around your age
group with with parents and that sort of
thing. Were you having a lot of problems
in school and just in general that that
that you needed that immediately, or was that
something they jumped to right away? You know,
the answer was I wasn't doing as well
as I should have been doing, and and
it really did come down to focus. I
mean, very clearly,
I am a text book case
of ADHD.
What what's interesting is later on in time
as I got sober,
it's actually become
an incredible
asset. Mhmm. Mhmm. If you've learned how to
live
with ADHD, if you learn how to multitask,
if you learn how
to better yourself with it Yeah. You know,
in school, I would say I was
not a highly motivated student. I see. I
was more socially motivated,
you know, got tested, loved the extra time
they gave you on the test. Uh-huh. Yeah.
And they started prescribing these drugs. And I
I didn't like them. I mean, I don't
Yeah. Even when I was doing drugs, I
don't like drugs in general that speed me
up. Right. I was always I always wanted
to come down. I always wanted to slow
my mind.
Mhmm. I always felt like I had a
very active mind, you know, a lot of
dreams when I sleep at night. Mhmm. Very
active in the day. It takes me a
lot to slow down. Now if you don't
do the Dexedrine, if you don't do that
or you don't do whatever
speeds you up, do you naturally slow down?
Or where do you where does your mind
go
when you don't have that med? You know,
it just goes to staying busy.
Busy. And so I have to have a
lot of information flowing into me from disparate
points, and I can harvest a lot of
information at a time.
Mhmm. Mhmm. And so what I've learned and,
you know, I think as you get older,
there's there is a
part of you that matures out of some
of the negative sides of ADHD. Mhmm. But
for me, first of all, being sober goes
a long way. And and I mean that.
I don't I don't mean, you know, dry.
I mean truly sober. Yeah. I get that.
You know, part of slowing the mind is
when I get
a little bit out of sorts, it's
learning to identify that in myself,
communicating
with about it,
seeking guidance from others,
honestly, kind of calibrating yourself.
If you're doing those things,
then I I really feel that somebody with
ADD, ADHD,
is really built to to succeed
because you can process, I think, larger amounts
of information versus
needing to be very linear,
but you have to have a good way
to function and a lot
of support around you in order to do
that. And and I've had that. I've I've
been really blessed
to have a lot of people around me
both in my personal life and my work
that understand me really well Yeah. And and
allow me to sort of be the best
version of myself.
You know? I'm I'm incredibly blessed in that
way. That's very cool. So for how many
years did you take those meds, or are
you still essentially taking the same meds that
you were taking back then? No. No. I
have not taken a pill for ADHD
since,
getting sober.
So You would have been what about I
got sober 20. So as I like to
say, I've never had a legal drink. Okay.
So for 5 years, you were on the
Dexagem.
When when that was prescribed to you, did
you do any other work,
psychological
counseling
or therapy?
I did light therapy. Typically, it was the
check-in. You're taking the drugs. How's it going?
How's school going? Mhmm. I did one summer
go off to a school that was for
kids with ADD,
and, it was actually a summer school. So
I went to school for summer, and I
hated it.
I saw 2 kids, get in a fight
and get kicked out of school. Mhmm. And
so I was like, oh, that's a thing.
So I went in and and got in
a fight and got to come home early.
So I didn't really like being there. I
I did actually learn, some good skill sets
again for learning note taking and and and
focusing,
but, you know, I I wanted to get
home. That was actually during the time where
I was ramping up in my social scene.
I was at that point, I think I
was 17 years old Mhmm. And I I
didn't wanna be there. I wanted to be
back home. Yeah. I get it. You didn't
have a legal drink, but I'm assuming that
you've had plenty of illegal
drinks,
after
after you moved to Houston.
Yeah. The people were they were smoking grass,
but were they equally drinking, or or was
it just mostly grass? I mean, I think
we we were drinking, but it was, weed
was the baseline. We were drinking, and then
we were doing some other stuff too. I
I think, you know, I I believe I
was an addict before going to
the
too. I I think, you know, I I
believe I was an addict before going to
college
dependent on weed, and then things
accelerated more when I went to college.
I remember when I was
about 17,
I,
saw cocaine for the first time. Oh, okay.
I I don't know how to explain this
because I I don't believe in an omnipotent,
all knowing God. And
there was a feeling that came over me
as there was 3 people in the room,
all 3 did a line of coke and
offered it to me.
I had this feeling
that that was how I was gonna die.
I I don't know how to explain it.
It was one of the strongest feelings I've
had in my life,
and I knew I was compulsive. I've been
compulsive from the age of 3. Right? That
is in me.
I believe I was an addict before I
added drugs to the equation. Yeah. I act,
behave, think like an addict. I if if
I love something, I want a 100 of
it. You know, I don't believe in law
of diminishing returns. I want Well, that's classic
OCD, isn't it? Yeah. I just want more
and more and more. And I'm talking about
when I was collecting baseball cards in from
a kid, I hated running out of money
and not being able to open up one
more baseball card pack. If I was playing
a game, I I did not wanna stop.
You know? If I had food, I wanted
more.
Everything for me was always more and more
and more. Mhmm. So I saw cocaine. I
was in the room. It was like recoiling
from a hot flame. I never touched it.
I was so afraid of it.
And it you know, and I told myself
that I would never do cocaine because I
knew
that if I did,
it would kill me. And I never did
cocaine.
And to this
day, I believe
if I had done cocaine or if I
ever do cocaine,
I believe it's gonna kill me. I believe
I
would love it
Yeah. That I would not be able to
stop due to my compulsivity.
Yeah. I get that belief system about something,
it might as well be that something that
you really shouldn't be doing will kill you
if you do do it. Yeah. But I
had the same kind of thing when it
just comes to getting
Yeah. But I had the same kind of
thing when it just comes to getting drunk
again. I mean, I don't think I'll make
it back. If I go out and drink,
you know, not only will I throw in
away my sobriety, but I'll throw away the
thing that I've spent more years of my
life doing more more intensely than anything else.
And I I just don't think I would
survive. But that's okay. I'm willing to live
with that because
alcoholism is a deadly disease, and you and
I have both known people who've died from
cocaine. Oh my god. Yeah. Maybe not necessarily
the the snorting of it, but certainly,
freebasing
and and crack. To me, that's a healthy
fear. So you never did cocaine, but the
marijuana aided you in terms of regulating
your whatever the drugs were doing for you.
Yeah. I think it's important to to say
this. You know, when I came
in to sobriety and Uh-huh. I'm a a
high bottom
guy. Yeah. So Yeah.
I went to college. I accelerated.
I
lot of other drugs, you know, more hallucinogenics
and party type drugs.
I was very fortunate
that I had deteriorated in school.
I deteriorated
in both
my relationship with my family and how I
treated my family. Mhmm. And I became sort
of immersed in the culture of drugs.
And I had an intervention
that was done
and,
was put in rehab
before I had any real
life consequence. I was getting really close. I
I started dealing drugs
Mhmm. And I loved dealing drugs. I loved
dealing drugs as much as I loved doing
drugs
because what I learned is I'm not I'm
just not part of the party. Mhmm. I
felt like I was bringing the party. Oh,
yeah. And I I loved the sense of
control
that I had over people calling me and
needing me.
And, you know, again, it was part of
that culture. So I was very much,
participating
deep in the culture
in a way that I was running head
first into major consequences, but never really had
them.
And I enjoyed drugs. I did until
the end.
I had a very high bottom.
I I remember when I got into the
program, I was Yeah. And what I real
and it's crazy. I know it sounds crazy.
No. It doesn't. I Yeah. And when I
real and it's crazy. I know it sounds
crazy. No. It doesn't. I get it. But,
like, I went to rehab, and, like, these
people have these amazing stories. Like, you know,
I I never ran from the cops. I
never got shot. I don't have anything.
And honestly, like, there was a part of
me that I was like, do do I
fit in? Like Yeah. And what I realized
was
my truth is
I had enough for me. When I got
sober
Yeah. And I didn't want to go to
rehab, I was intervened upon. And Uh-huh. I
was basically told that I would lose the
support of my parents, be put on the
streets, not be in college, and have no
direction, or I'm gonna rehab.
Uh-huh. And I and I went to rehab
and it was I was 20 years old.
I went to University of Arizona, and University
of Arizona is just a a big, big
party school. Party school. Sure. I joined a
fraternity,
had a great time there. Again, sort of
accelerated
in my using. I had to stay behind
my sophomore year for summer school because I
was basically, I think, a 2nd semester freshman
after finishing my sophomore year because I dropped
so many classes, and I just wasn't focused.
I dropped all my classes.
Mhmm. At this point, I'm I'm starting to
grow marijuana. I'm dealing it. Mhmm. And, again,
I'm in summer school, and I dropped my
classes again in summer. So I'm there, but
basically, I've now dropped my classes. Were you
keeping that from the folks and and other
people? I I thought I was.
Yeah. And that's what turns out. Turns out
no.
You know? And and I I remember I
you know, 20 year old kid, you you
think you're smart. I I ran out of
money, and I decided to spend on my
emergency credit card, which was my dad's credit
card. Yeah. And my thought process was I'm
gonna spend a bunch of money on the
credit card, but I knew I had money
coming in from
a deal I had done.
And, my idea was I'm gonna go charge
on my dad's credit card, and I'm gonna
go call the credit card company and pay
it off before he ever sees the charges,
not knowing how credit cards really work, that
you get bills in the mail and you
see what people charge. I don't know. I
actually don't know what I was thinking.
My parents had an anniversary.
They renewed their vows.
I miss my flight home. I miss my
parents renewing their vows.
I had, you know, to some extent, just
not cared about my family of origin, had
really estranged myself. It just completely engulfed myself
in,
you know, my what what I thought were
friends. Had that started before you got to
college?
Yeah. To some extent. I mean Yeah. I
was
just getting to be, you know, an older
teenage kid who was Yeah. Finding my way
through and
How about siblings? Did you do you have
siblings? So I do. I have one older
brother. Right.
And, you know, honestly, we had a good
relationship
growing up. We fought a lot. I mean,
we were just 2 different people.
I see. So I wasn't very close with
my brother. Certainly during those years, we just
didn't talk. Sure. And then had estranged myself
from my parents.
You know, I tell people part of my
story is
I'm a high bottom guy. I had a
great childhood.
One, you know, huge life event in in
childhood which shaped me, but I don't have
a blame. I believe I was born a
very compulsive person.
Once drugs were added to the mix,
you know, it was game on. Like, I
was going to be an addict, in something,
I believe. I I was gonna either be
an overeater. I was gonna be a drug
addict. I was gonna be something the way
I'm kind of built and molded.
Yeah. I am so, so grateful that I
became a drug addict Yeah. Because,
you know, then I was given such a
gift, which was the skill sets of
AA, the program for living
Yeah. That I was given. But
when I came in to the program, I
remember I I tell people I was to
everything.
To everything. I was too young. Uh-huh. I
was too Jewish.
Right. I was too
high bottom.
Right. Like, I walked into being I did
not belong. My first meeting, I heard somebody
talk about smoking crack. Somebody come in and
talk about how Jesus saved their life, and
I'm like, I'm out of here. When I
had my intervention, one of the deals I
made is I'll go to rehab, but I
won't sleep there. That was the deal. So
mommy and daddy picked me up, brought me
back from Arizona,
and, you know, I drove me to rehab
every day and picked me up. And I
remember when they picked me up from
my first day at rehab, I'd gone to
a meeting, and I was like, you don't
understand. I don't belong. I I don't belong
here. Somebody's these guys you know, people are
smoking crack. People are shooting heroin.
You know, I'm busting people's anonymity left and
right. You know? They're talking about Jesus like
they're gonna try to convert me. Like,
what do you what what did you do?
Where are you where are you putting me?
This was July in in,
in Arizona. I had
driven to Phoenix.
Mhmm. This was after spending on the credit
cards doing that story. I had driven to
Phoenix
to basically,
you know, pick up drugs and and come
back to Tucson.
And we went to Phoenix. We're driving back
to Tucson, and I'm with one of my
good friends at the time who was, like,
my partner in crime. And I said to
him, I said, somebody's following us. And he's
like, you're nuts. I was like, no. I
think somebody's following us. I remember we pulled
off the freeway. We go back to our
house. I'm not a paranoid guy. That wasn't
part of my thing. And we go back
to my apartment,
and I walk in my apartment and it
looks like stuff's been moved around. I was
like, somebody's been here.
And he's like, man, what's, you know, what's
wrong with you? I was like, no. Like,
somebody's been here.
And, you know, we sit down. I think
we watch TV, smoked a couple of bowls,
went to bed,
wake up the next morning, and this was
July
12, 1998,
and
my door gets kicked in.
Like, my front door gets thrown open. Everybody
down, everybody down.
And the next thing I know, I have
somebody with his knee in my back basically
cuffing me. Oh my goodness. And in my
apartment,
I had weed x, acid, mushrooms,
money,
you know, 20 hand blown glass pipes because
I collected them because they're art. You know?
They're art to me. Right? Sure. Sure. Yeah.
And,
so, I mean, I was done. I mean,
this was the end.
And
basically,
get arrested
and sat down on the couch next to
my buddy who had slept on my couch,
and these 2 guys start yelling at us.
We've been following you. We know everything. We've
seen you do your drug deals. You're bust
You're done.
You know, this was like life just hitting
you in the face. I mean Wow.
And then they said, you can come in.
And then my dad walked in the door
who lives in Houston, and I'm in Tucson.
Oh, wow. Uh-huh. And, basically, my parents had
hired private investigators to come follow me to
see what I was up to. Gosh. And
they knew everything. And you thought they were
law enforcement or DEA? Oh, I I no.
I thought they were cops. I mean, they
were like flashing badges. So these 2 guys
were private investigators or former cops, and so
I thought
I was being arrested. Like, my life was
over.
I was over. I had a grow room
in my second bedroom.
I would have done a decade with what
was in my apartment, and then my dad
walks in.
And my dad just looks at me. I
I'm very close to my dad, always have
been.
And but I thought he knew nothing.
So he went from knowing nothing to having
been in my apartment and seen everything.
Oh, wow. That's wild. And my dad, they
said, you can come in,
and,
you know, it was like the biggest sense
of relief,
but immediately
followed by the
biggest sense of guilt you can ever imagine.
It was like the biggest, you know, melding
of emotions you could ever feel.
And they said, do you wanna say anything?
And he looks at me and he just,
you know, says the worst thing a father
can ever say to a son. I'm just
so disappointed.
Right? Like That's a killer, man. That's a
killer. Right. That was it. That was all
there was there was no speech. There was
no anger. It was just,
you know, like, I'm so disappointed. It was
like, oh my god. Was that his first
time visiting you? No. I mean, they they
had been there, but every time they had
been there, of course, I cleaned up my
act. You know, they'd come and been to,
like, our fraternity things. I'm like but I
could play the game. I could go on
vacation with them. I felt like I was
hiding it, But I had a rapid descent.
My my last 9 months was pretty rough
in the fact that Yeah. Again, I was
having a great time,
but Uh-huh. I was destroying everything around me
without even realizing it. Did your dad learn
about all of this from the private investigators,
or did he have some inkling that you
were doing all this prior to getting involved
with them? They just couldn't figure out what
was going on with me. Like, why was
I spinning so far out of control? Why
was I so distant?
Why was I getting such bad grades in
school?
And they knew something was up. And so
Uh-huh. They finally got the thought that maybe
he's got a drug problem.
They went and saw
this this lady who saved my life. She
was my therapist
for many, many years and saved my
life, just the angel in my life.
Yeah. They met, and she kinda coached him
through what to do.
And,
so my dad told me, he goes, you've
got 2 choices. He said, we're gonna turn
everything over to the cops,
and
you're
out, or
you can go to rehab. I was like,
pretty easy decision. Like, I'm going to rehab.
Easy choice. And I went to and, you
know, so I went to rehab. I remember
we flew back through Phoenix, and there was
a moment after we I had to throw
out everything. I had to throw out my
all my lovely, you know,
we flew back from Tucson to Phoenix, had
a layover, and I actually thought about running.
I actually thought about taking off at that
point, but I knew
what it would do
to my relationship with my family.
And so I continued back, back, checked in
the next day. I had no intention
of staying sober.
Mhmm. And I was about 25
days
in and I remember they asked how you
know, they gave you the speech only about
10% of you are gonna make a year.
You know? Who do you and they said,
who here thinks you're gonna make a year?
And everybody in the room raised their hand
except for me.
Honestly, I I was just there to check
the box, get through,
and
my intent was I didn't know if I
was an addict. I didn't know,
you know, if I had a problem. And
I remember they made me write a paper
about surrender,
and I went home
and and wrote a paper about surrender. I
I think what I did, if I remember
right, is I wrote a whole paper. It
was about 3 pages,
something about the Peloponnesian War.
And
and,
I brought it back. I really studied, and
I gave my my my all. And she
just said, you just
you don't get it. Don't get it. Yeah.
Understand
what we're doing here.
Mhmm. And,
she proceeded to tell me that I could
restart
my 30 day program 30 days in. So
I spent 60 days in a 30 day
treatment program. Mhmm. And it was the best
thing that happened to me because
it took time for me to distance myself
from my using
to see the consequences,
not just of what I'd done
Right.
But where I was going.
Yeah. I always wanted to be successful.
I always wanted
I really, really wanted to make an impact
in this world. Mhmm. And when I was
sitting in rehab, my my epiphany really came
in in a couple of moments. Number 1
was
somebody I was outside of a meeting, and
an old timer said to me, he goes,
did have you ever lied to your parents?
And I was like, well, yeah.
He's like, have you ever
cheated or stole from your parents? Yeah.
He's like, have you ever hit your parents?
I was like, actually, I yes. Slapped my
mom one time. I I remember that.
And he said, what would you do to
somebody that did that to your parents?
Mhmm. And he said, the thing is is
that
we we start acting and behaving
in a different way
when the drugs take over. And and they
it really did
make me sacrifice
my morals, my values, my ethics.
And, you know, you'd hear people talk about
my standards. You know? Right. My actions were
actually falling quicker than my standards, and and
that's what was happening for me. And it
took me being in sobriety in rehab. That
was my time to actually sit back and
reflect. And my reflection again, this high bottom
moment for me, I was ready to get
off of the ride Uh-huh. Not because of
where it taken me to Sure. But because
I had enough time that I could clearly
see where I was going.
And I was 20 years old. I'd gone
nowhere in college. I had an identity crisis
essentially there. So Yeah. It was very clear
that I was going nowhere. Right. So
I made a deep commitment
at that point
to get to a year of sobriety. They
told me you told me we all we
can always refund your misery and Yeah. Right.
Yeah. And I made that commitment, got a
sponsor, decided I was gonna work the steps
Uh-huh. And decided I was gonna throw myself
into it because I I just had nothing
to lose at that point. Yeah. And I
realized that the path I was on just
wasn't one that I was proud of. That
was my epiphany. That was really
my moment in just saying I'm gonna give
it a shot and and
seeing myself
differently.
You were there for a total of 60
days. At what point did you have this
light bulb moment? It was probably around day
30
5. Really? Yeah. So so there was a
few things I went through in rehab. One
is just kind of going through being in
meetings every day and just Yeah. Looking around
and saying, you know, part of it was
hearing those people telling the stories that were
405060
60 and going, I don't even wanna give
it a chance to end up like that.
And I remember I actually stayed in treatment
for a total of 90 days. I did,
I did an IOP afterwards. And I remember
I was finishing my IOP.
We could go around the room, and it's
kind of the end of rehab
for anything that you're checking out. Everybody says
nice things to you and, you know, keep
coming back. And Mhmm. I remember Ed said
something to me that I
can't get out of my brain, and it's
in me every single day. Mhmm. And he
said, you know, Randy, he said, I've seen
a lot of people come through this treatment.
Mhmm. And he said, you may have
some of the most potential
that I've seen of anybody that's come through
here.
And I was so proud when he said
that. Wow. And he said, but you know,
when somebody tells you you have potential,
that's an insult.
He goes, because what you're doing is you're
wasting talent. He goes, nobody tells Michael Jordan
he has potential. Right. He goes, right now,
you're just wasted talent. Uh-huh. And he goes,
I hope that you can fulfill your talent.
And Wow. My life's goal now is to
make sure nobody thinks I have potential anymore.
I'm telling you, it stuck with me. It
branded me. Yeah. And it crawled into my
brain and never left me.
That's a great frame of mind to have,
I mean, and also to pass on. I've
heard that before. I have a sponsor who
said very similar things to me early on.
One of the things he said was and
I've said this in other interviews. He said,
be careful of telling people what you're going
to do or your intentions or what, in
this case, your potential.
Because you can get enough satisfaction from their
response to that
that you never actually have to engage in
what it is you've you've got the potential
for or your intentions to do. You know,
his whole thing was
do it
and let people
see it, and then you don't have to
talk about it. Sounds like that's what you
got from Ed. I did. And and, you
know, I I grew up in a small
South Texas town. I grew up in McAllen,
Texas. Sure. Uh-huh. So I was born there,
and my best friend from birth,
his brother was my brother's best friend. My
brother was older, and he was my best
friend. And our parents were best friends, and
we were essentially raised together.
His name was Jeff. And
at 6, he developed a brain tumor and
ended up passing away from it.
When Jeff was diagnosed with a brain tumor,
I didn't see him anymore.
And I wasn't really told what was going
on with him other than he was sick.
Mhmm. And I remember my brother went to
his brother's birthday party, and I hadn't seen
Jeff in about 6 or 8 months. I
don't know I don't know how long it
had been, but it had been a while.
Sure. And my dad dad pulls up to
the bowling alley. I run-in to go get
my brother and bring him back to the
car,
and there's a kid in a wheel chair
with a trach
shaved head or or lost all his hair
Uh-huh. And barely recognizable.
And I went up, and I didn't know
I didn't know he would look like. I
didn't it's burned into my head. What a
shock. And I talked to him for, like,
a minute, and then I ran out crying.
And you were 6 at the time this
happened?
I was 6.
Wow. And Jeff passed away
I don't know time death at time depth
at that age, but he passed away a
few months later.
Right. I didn't go to the funeral. I
wasn't allowed to. I was I just I
I was totally passed and that was it.
That was the end of the conversation.
Yeah. Yeah. Nobody ever really talked about it.
Uh-huh. And there was a few things that
happened. This is predating
using, but I think has a lot to
do with my wanting to numb
Yeah. And that
the reason that statement by Ed about potential
hurt me so much, I remembered not trusting
God.
Yeah. I remembered
feeling
like
at 8, 9, 10 years old, sitting there
at night going to sleep going, where where
is he? What's happening? What's happening to his
soul?
And then by the time I reach my
teenage years, when something good happened,
I had guilt because he never had the
opportunity.
And when I screwed something up,
I felt terrible
because I was screwing up an opportunity he
never had.
I lived in this crazy
sort of Mhmm.
Mhmm. You know, binary box where Yeah. If
something was great, I couldn't accept it. And
if something was bad, it was worse because
I had failed.
So when Ed says something to me like,
you have potential, but you're a waste of
talent Mhmm. What I feel is
I'm wasting an opportunity that he didn't even
get.
Wow. And part of me getting sober,
part of me working my 5th step Mhmm.
For the first time
was digging into that feeling
of loss.
My my work was letting him go Yeah.
And not having that hang over me and
not feeling like
I had to live my life for him.
Now to this day, in a lot of
my life, I I don't have a relationship
with his parents. His mother, I saw years
later, and she she had trouble seeing me
because
it's the sort of pacing of where he
would be. Yeah. But I try to live
every day
honoring him,
and honoring
the life that he lived and the influence
that he had on me.
But I've, you know, been able to let
go of some of that release and guilt
of
having opportunities that others don't. But I don't
forget. I I really deeply wanna give back
in this life Yeah. In his honor. And
so that's something that's a big, big part
of me.
We'll be right back.
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And we're back.
What were you being told back then when
you're a kid, you're 7, 8, 9 years
old
having to deal with this thing, which is
just absolutely,
devastating
to anybody
but to a 6 year old who doesn't
even get a chance to understand it. Were
you being given any messages about
a higher power or God or what kind
of messages were you getting from people around
you or institutions
to help you deal with that? Or did
you not get anything? Nothing. So a couple
things. Right? So you piece the pieces together.
Number 1
is Jeff dies. Nobody talks to me about
it. And I literally in my room, the
only thing I have is a bear that
what he had when he passed and that
was given to me. And I I have
that bear still in my house. Yeah.
But we didn't talk about it. And then
I'm ADD kid who goes to temple. Right.
To me, I was learning a lot of
boring stuff. Right? I didn't wanna be there.
I'm a hyper kid. They couldn't rein me
in.
As I got to 10, 11, 12, I
start training for my bar mitzvah. I didn't
like the rabbi. He didn't like me Uh-huh.
Because I didn't wanna be there.
I didn't really connect
with religion,
and I didn't trust God because it was
the the same question, the obvious question, like,
how could God let this happen to a
6 year old?
Yeah. Yeah. You know, my my belief in
God
is not omnipotent and all knowing. My belief
in a higher power came
really through working the steps a few times.
It took me a while
to find
my version of spirituality
and God.
I found a new pair of glasses, actually.
Did you find it retrospectively?
I mean, oftentimes,
we don't know or cannot sense God working
in our lives until he's just done it
and we look back. Is that the kind
of awareness that you had of God was
in retrospect?
I mean, I can see where I've been
really blessed. I I don't think that's where
I I came to it. There were two
parts of my belief
in a higher power.
The first one is I finally reconciled myself
to the perspective
being more intellectual about it than I probably
should have been. Yeah. Yeah. The first sort
of crack in my belief
in being able to believe was I got
to the point of I'd rather believe in
God and be wrong than not believe and
be right.
So that was
that was my first thing. Like, I like
just throw yourself into it, and if you're
wrong, who cares? Right? But if there is
no God and you're right, that's a pretty
sad place to be. So, like, let's go
with the other one. Like, that was kind
of where I started without so so Yeah.
So that's a no lose right there. That's
a no lose situation. Right. So that allowed
me
to sort of embark on,
you know, the idea, okay, There's so many
people out there that believe so many priests,
clergy, rabbis out there. How can they all
be wrong? And I started piecing all that
together.
But then
where I found my god, and and I
just mentioned it, which was a new pair
of glasses Yeah. Was where, you know, Chuck
c talks about ego,
and he talks about, you know, easing God
out, the conscious separation
from and that God is either everything or
he is nothing.
And where I found my God and my
where my belief in my higher power today
is is that Uh-huh. I love seeing you.
I love seeing you in meetings, and I
find you to be
an egoless person
to
talk to,
to love, to hug, to be around.
And my belief is is that when 2
people or more come together
and deflate their ego,
that that part of God can come out
and that there's a piece of God in
all of us. Right? And when you go
to a God meeting, it's because you have
a lot of people there that aren't
selfish or self centered in the moment,
but they're there to share openly and to
love each other. You know, my relationship with
my wife, my relationship with my kids
is as egoless as I can make it.
Uh-huh. And when we do, there's just a
bigger peace of God, and that's what I've
latched onto,
and Uh-huh. You know, what that tells me
is that I've gotta put goodness out there.
Right. I've gotta be ego less in my
behavior with other people,
in how I approach
opportunities
to help. Uh-huh.
And I gotta let my peace of God
out. And so Yeah. You know, that's really
where my higher powers come from, but it
lines up for me really with my sobriety.
It lines up with my want to do
service work. Right. It lines up to my
willingness to accept help and be open with
other men. Well, you know what it strikes
me as too. And as you were just
describing that, I was thinking of the term
spiritual maturity
Mhmm. From the standpoint that what you're describing
right there that you've been able to take
to
your relationships, not only with men and women
in the program, but with your wife and
with your kids, it's a mature spiritual
position
that is
the outcome of the work that you did
in the program to get to where you
needed to get to. What would you tell
somebody who's relatively new in sobriety, maybe even
within their first couple of years, about how
long it took for you to get to
that comfortability
with that or or for you to get
to that place where you could have this
belief and really believe it. You know, I
definitely was a fake it till you make
it guy. You know, I'm I'd so I
said I was gonna make it to my
1st year. I went to
600 meetings in my 1st year. I volunteered
when I didn't
I'd just gotten sober. I volunteered at AA
Intergroup when I got out of
treatment.
Mhmm. I immersed myself in the program. Mhmm.
Again, high bottom.
I could stay off drugs. I could stay
off alcohol, especially after, like, detoxing myself. Mhmm.
Sure.
You know? So it wasn't until I had
my core rocked
that I really
got the test of,
do I really wanna stay sober,
and do I really wanna dig deeper?
And what happened was I I had been
dating
a girl in the program.
We'd been dating a while. We're very, very
close.
And
we were also part of a very tight
knit group of young people in sobriety. So
it was about 8 of us that were
very, very close Mhmm. Including my best
friend. And she actually cheated on me, mocked
up, with my best friend.
This is my core group of
sober, young people.
We go to all of our meetings together.
We go out to dinner afterwards. Mhmm. And
I got both
embarrassed. Right? Like Mhmm. My girlfriend slept with
my best friend. Everybody knows. I I can't
go back to my meetings. I Yeah. What
am I gonna do? It shook
me to the core and challenged everything I
just put together in my sobriety.
And and honestly ended up being
probably
one of the best things that happened to
me. Yeah. Number 1 is our relationship wasn't
healthy to begin with, but number 2,
that was the moment.
That was the moment where
line in the sand
Mhmm. Do I really wanna keep doing this?
Do I really wanna stay sober?
And
this is when I went from,
you know, a lot of coed and young
people's meetings.
I had to go find a different place
to be.
I see. And that's when I started going
to Alder Street, Avenue B, these men's meetings
Men's meetings. Yeah. I moved
from a group of young people being my
peer group Right.
To
surrounding myself with the men that I call
my heroes.
Mhmm. And so I transitioned my meetings. I
went to these meetings where there was just
unbelievable
people like Mhmm. George j and Dan d,
Pat C, Todd Yeah. Like, all these guys,
you know, who you know, I I would
listen to these guys and they were amazing
husbands
and Yeah. Fathers
and businessmen.
And Mhmm.
It was this transition in my life that
that was my maturity moment. This was my
I've got
to grow up. I've got to move out.
And at that point, I remember
vividly thinking
it was almost like starting over. I couldn't
go to the same meetings. I couldn't be
around the same people.
Well, how old were you when this happened?
I was 22. Okay. So so you'd been
in the program for 2 years. 18 months.
Been in the program for 18 months, hanging
with the young people, having that situation happen
to you that rocked your world there, that
left you
relatively weakened in your resolve to stay sober?
Or were you did you have any place
to go with that, with that feeling that
you had after that situation?
The guy, my best friend, we actually shared
the same sponsor. So I couldn't even run
to my sponsor. Woah. Right? So it was
like I was on an island. Oh my
yeah. But I surprised myself.
I had every excuse to relapse.
I had every excuse to run, put it
behind me
Mhmm.
And I didn't want to.
I had had enough
blessings to that point in the program.
I had immersed myself enough
that by this time, I had
started my first company,
at 21 years old. Right. Had enrolled back
in school,
had put my life back together, and was
proud of the person that I was becoming.
Mhmm. And I I wasn't willing
to
give that up,
and I liked
who I was
sober.
I believe that a lot of people
or most people I've talked to as they
get sober, they have that
line in the sand moment where it's literally,
you know, which is the fork in the
road. And that was my fork in the
road, but that fork in the road was
so important to me because
it tested my resolve and taught me what
was really important to me, and I didn't
know that. Was that a spiritual turning point
for you as well? You know, what I
would say is yes.
It was a massive
ego deflating moment. Yeah. I get it. And
that ego deflation
allowed me to be teachable,
that it allowed me to seek help.
It allowed me to be vulnerable,
and I had to go get a new
sponsor.
Said, I've got the perfect person for you.
Uh-huh. And she introduces me to David, who
was my second sponsor. Now he's he's he's
since passed away, who was
a gay man
and who took me to meetings
and was completely different than anybody I'd ever
been close
to. And it was amazing because
my first sponsor, Ron Kay, amazing guy, takes
a ton of people through the steps. Oh,
yeah. Calls it by the book,
Loved the guy to death and forever grateful
for him. Right. This was somebody
who was a deeply
emotional
member of AA, which I was not. I
get it. Uh-huh. And I remember David telling
me he said, every answer from you
is from your mind. Right. He says, you
need to start answering from your heart. And
David
broke the steps down in a different way
for me,
which were emotional,
spiritual,
and and deep
in a different way.
And he really challenged me and called me
on my BS
and challenged me deeply. And he said, you
know, Randy, everything you see is black or
white, black or white, black or white. Mhmm.
Mhmm. He goes, I'm gonna teach you about
gray. Part of it was
learning how to
I think he taught me a lot about
how to love. I think he taught me
how to lot about how to be vulnerable.
He taught me a lot about how to
heal
and was the perfect person for me and
couldn't have been more different than me. I
remember I felt very uncomfortable
going to an AA meeting
that was
all
gay and lesbian, and I'm like, I don't
belong here.
And Yeah. He said, you do belong here
because you're just a member of AA. And
the more time I spent there, the more
I loved it. Yeah. You know, but it
was like I was afraid of what you
don't know.
And David was just,
you know, such an incredible,
loving,
supporting man and
loved me and taught me how to be
a man differently. Yeah. So he opened up
a a spiritual
dimension
that had been closed off. A 100%.
I I was highly transactional
as a person,
and he opened up my heart. So how
long did he sponsor you for before he
passed away? So David sponsored me for about
5 years and then ended up moving away.
He moved away and and died
4 or 5 years later.
Did you get yourself another sponsor at the
time? I did. And I went through
sort of, like, a little bit of time
where I had a bridge where I didn't
have a sponsor. Yeah. I get it. And
then I remember I asked Scott b to
be my sponsor. Uh-huh. And I met with
Scott b one time.
I don't even know if he'll remember this,
and I sat down with him.
And Scott b is a deep Stepwork guy.
Just deep in the program. He's he's an
onion peeler. Oh, yeah. And I I sat
down with Scott, and he gave me my
step one work, which was probably more work
than all the work I'd done in the
program today. Mhmm. And, I remember leaving him.
I was like, well, I guess he's not
gonna be my sponsor.
And I love Scott. Scott's one of my
favorite people. I served, and we're so close
to this day. Again, I I drifted for
a bit, but I knew I I needed
to stay connected.
And it took me a little while. It
took me about another 6 or 8 months.
And I remember I'd asked George Jay to
be my sponsor, and he was full at
the time. Yeah.
And I don't remember what it was, but
I had another tough moment, and it was
time to really get into the steps again.
And I asked George Jay again, and he
said yes. And so George Jay has been
my sponsor,
since that time. And you guys went back
through the steps?
Yep. As a matter of fact, I'll be
doing,
my 5th step
tomorrow. So we're in the steps again now,
and I've got a I've got a 5th
step to do tomorrow. And I'll I'll tell
you what's interesting about that is,
you know, 23 or sober now, going through
the steps, life is very, very full. And
and just I mean, I've I've had
just incredible blessings in my life.
And I was doing my 4 step this
time, and I was really struggling
because Uh-huh.
I wanna dig deep and I wanna put,
I wanna be thorough.
And I was doing my 4 step and
it's weak.
I'm, like, going to my 5th step and
it's like, I would do my fist step
right here on recording.
And what I realized is
now that I live a pretty clean life
and I live a life that I I
live out loud. And so
what happens is I don't carry a lot
of resentment, anger, and fear. And when I
have it,
I clean it up pretty quickly. Yeah. There's
some stuff on there and there's some stuff
I gotta get through, but, like and there's
definitely some stuff I need to look inward
on. Yeah. Especially, you know, in my role
of being a family member, a father, a
son, what have you. There's some stuff I
need to look up. That's all natural. I
mean, you know, anytime I've done,
and I've done more than than 1 or
2 or 3,
probably 4 or 5 4th steps over all
the years. But
it's funny when you get to those later
4th steps, you do find yourself digging
where it has already been dug.
And the cool thing about doing a 5th
step with a guy who knows you pretty
well is he's gonna know when you're just
rehashing the same stuff you dealt with last
time. The fact that you're willing to, on
a daily basis, do what you're doing to
keep the resentment factor to a minimal amount,
you know, I mean, gee whiz, you can
you can probably clean up almost everything you
do with a 10th step every day,
I think so. I mean,
I I'd like to think
that I live pretty clean.
Yeah. You know, that doesn't mean I haven't
stepped on toes that I'm not aware of
or I have enough negatively affected people in
in ways that I haven't. You've remained human,
so that's a good thing. Now what's your
relationship like with the men that you sponsor?
What what does it reflect?
You know, I I think it goes back
to
wanting to be of service and and be,
ego deflating.
Mhmm. And,
I spent a lot of time as a
father now. I have an an 8 year
old daughter and 11 year old son. Mhmm.
And I have an incredible wife who's such
a blessing to me and Did you meet
her in the program?
So, no. She was my cousin's best friend
from childhood. We actually have a picture at
summer camp together
Oh, wow. When we were 12. When I
got sober at 20, that was one of
the big challenging things is how am I
ever gonna find somebody? How am I ever
gonna get out and date and,
and and
just,
found somebody who's perfect for me. So your
relationship has been informing the way that you
work with guys on their relationship.
Absolutely. And being a father you know, I
was working with this guy and I said,
you know, your primary purpose is to stay
sober
and help others to recover from alcoholism.
Your secondary purpose
is to repair the relationship with your daughter.
Mhmm. And everything else doesn't matter. Mhmm. How's
he been doing with that? Great. I'm so
proud of him for
reengaging,
leaning in,
and, you know, he did a great job.
Being estranged is tough because you can't push
your way back.
And his job there was
he was
rock steady and reliable
and kinda let
his daughter and his daughter's mother Mhmm. Come
to him seeing that he's reliable
and
accountable, and it's just been a beautiful thing
to watch.
And so, you know, my relationship with the
guys
I work with, I I I I tend
to take myself too seriously.
I have a very, very busy
work schedule, life schedule.
I wish
I had more time with people in recovery.
What I've realized about myself
is
in some ways, and I I think this
is because of my experience with David,
I think I'm a better second sponsor than
first sponsor.
And so I I I don't I don't
know what that says about me. And maybe,
you know, like, I have guys that come
in
and the guys who are, like,
on the edge and just new and just
trying out. Yeah. I don't find that
maybe it's the I, you know, I I
see guys that and they sponsor so many
guys. I honor that so much, and I
I wanna be there.
It's just I don't
think that I
connect as well, and I'm as good of
a guide as I am against
men who have been through the steps once.
Mhmm.
And I'm helping them find a program for
living,
And I'm helping them rework the steps on
people, places, and things. And,
I love taking people to the steps actually
in a new pair of glasses.
It it's just a little bit different, and
I think part of it is is the
availability.
It's hard for me to be on call
at all times.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's also part of
your maturing as a man, as a husband,
as a father.
You're gaining different life experiences now in your
sobriety
that speak to different things that men need
when they come to you to be their
sponsor. And for me, what I found is
I have a handful of guys who I've
sponsored for going on 30 years.
I've got others who I've sponsored for for
lesser amounts of time. But some of the
guys that I've gotten more recently have been
men who have had sponsors who passed away
or whatever else.
But what's interesting about it is I find
that one of the best ways I can
be of service to the new guy is
to hook him up with one of the
guys I sponsor. And you've seen me do
this before in meetings. I'll grab guys and
say,
you know, come over here to one of
my sponsors, and I'll be talking to the
guy who's just come in. And I'll I'll
put them together. I'll say, you need to
trade phone numbers, and you guys need to
talk tomorrow And just do that. And when
it's worked out,
later on, I can say, well,
I guess I was a pretty good sponsor
to this man because he's being a good
sponsor to the next man. And, you know,
being grateful instead of proud of myself, I'm
grateful that I can be of service in
that way. I see a guy like you
who's got all these great life experiences of
being a successful businessman, successful father,
a great sponsor, a great friend, all these
other great things. It's understandable
that you're stretched
because
you've got a young family.
And when my family was young,
when my kids were young
and I wanted to go to a meeting,
I knew and my wife knew that that
was indeed taking some time away from the
rest of the family. And so balancing that
has been of over the years, it was
a big challenge, but I was able to
go to other men who had done it
successfully. You're the you're that kind of guy
too, aren't you? Oh, yeah. I mean, I
goes back to my compulsivity.
Right? So Yeah. My work week is
a 50 to 60 hour work week. I
can't help myself. I've had success. I run
a company. Sure.
You know, and then my the rest of
my time is my family. And, you know,
I tell people this, and and I tell
people this inside and outside
I company. You now know everything about me.
I don't have hobbies.
I I don't. I love what I do
for a living. I love the impact that
I have there.
My hobbies tend to be,
some of
the organizations
that I work with where we can influence,
you know, but I live out loud about
my sobriety.
Yeah. Almost anybody that has a meal with
me, even working with me,
knows I'm sober. And the reason is is
that That's cool. I want anybody whoever needs
help or knows somebody that needs help
to know that they can reach out to
me. Yeah. That happened recently. I had a
very dear friend in the program.
Her husband,
turns out, has been an alcoholic for several
years. She did not know who to call,
and I got the call.
And
I want that call,
And I am not embarrassed
that I am sober. I am so proud
because
my heroes in in the program
taught me to be proud of it. And
grateful at at the same time. I mean
Totally. God is actually in in a lot
of ways, I think he places us in
situations and with people that we need to
be with. And,
one of the great things about doing this
interview show is that these are people I've
known my whole sobriety,
some of them, and yet I I really
don't know that much about them. You know?
We we learn about each other. Even if
we go out to lunch or dinner from
time to time, the opportunity to really get
to know people and get to know what's
in their heart,
frankly, it it takes time. It takes time.
And,
you know, when you're a young father and
you're running a business and you're working a
lot and you're trying to stay sober by
doing as many meetings as you can or
sponsoring as many people as you can, there
isn't time for anything else. That's been my
experience. But later on, the kids will grow
up. They'll go to college. They'll move away
from home,
and you'll find yourself with some additional time
on your hands. And,
so whatever it is that you enjoy I
mean, I I love the fact that that
I can go to a lot more meetings
now than I could when my kids were
small. Yeah. I I look forward to I
you know, and the reason is is that
I see all my best friends. The, you
know, the one thing I've done right the
whole time besides, you know, not drinking is
I stay connected to guys in the program
because I love these guys. It's not work.
Right? And when my ass is falling off
or I need to talk,
I pick up the phone and I call
Todd or I call George or I call
Dan or I call George g. I mean
and and it's not work to call them
because
they love me and I love them, and
it's just easy.
And,
this,
podcast, thank you for doing it. Yeah. Because
during COVID, it became even more difficult to
stay connected
and, you know, going on Zoom meetings, but,
you know, literally listening to podcasts between work
and home driving
or going out for a run and and
listening to it and plugging in,
you know, those are the moments you know,
I went to, an international convention. I've I've
been to a few of mine. If anybody's
listening, there's one thing you should do in
your sobriety.
Get to the international convention. Nothing like
you know, first one I went to was,
was 18 months sober, and, I remember being
in a stadium full of people
and
saying the serenity prayer and saying the Lord's
prayer, and it's just you're with 50,000 people
and they're all like you. Everybody loves you
and you love them, and it's just awesome.
And to walk around the city and just
be greeting people in the streets, you see
that little tag around their neck, and you
know that they're they're a brother or a
sister. Well, that's one of the things I
like about Zoom now is that I can
I can participate internationally, whereas when I've gone
to the conventions, it's always neat to meet
people from,
extraordinary
life right now? And to hear you speak
about these other people
what's cool about the podcast is that when
you're listening, you're listening to people you know.
Yeah. And so you can listen from a
different perspective,
a perspective of knowing what's in their heart
and hearing them express it in a in
a really grateful way. And to me, your
story is really inspiring, and
it's still evolving. I mean, you've been sober
23 years now. You're still a relatively young
man. And and with 2 kids, you know,
the the interesting thing is, the time frame
here is interesting
because you've got 2 kids who it's not
gonna be long before they're of that age.
Yes.
I hope that
they stay away from drugs and alcohol.
Just recently, and I I this is something
I'll be
processing with my sponsor. I need to start
thinking about how to message to my kids,
you know, about me being sober. They they've
never known obviously, they're 8 and 11. I've
been sober 23 years.
At what point do you start sharing with
them that, you know, your dad had a
problem and I'm sober now and I'm grateful
to be sober. And I I, you know,
I don't know how to do that. I
don't know how to have that conversation, but
I know who to have that conversation with
that can tell me how to do that.
I'm 43,
and everything I go through, it's like I
have a cheat code for life. And that
cheat code is
when I don't know what to do, it's
either in the books or in the steps.
And when I still know what to do,
I pick up the phone and I can
call people to tell me how to do.
I have this incredible network,
this incredible program around me that had I
not gotten sober, I would have never been
able to be a successful
husband or father or businessman. I tell people
I spent some of my most formative years,
the the time that you're really shaping your
social function.
I spent
arresting my social function with drugs. Uh-huh. You
know, my natural tendency
is still
in a lot of ways to think
like an addict, and it's taken a lot
of time and energy and work, and it's
taken
a lot of guidance
to shape me into
a vulnerable,
sober,
hopefully lower ego
man. Yeah. And it's all because of the
gifts of the program. Because left to my
own tendencies,
I'm an addict. The the wiring is still
in place.
You know, for me,
I have to acknowledge the fact
that left to my own devices, left to
a period of time where I skip meetings
and when I stop returning calls or stop
praying or stop being of service,
that hardwiring
will carry me right back to behavior,
and it'll be worse because it it it
will have come at the expense of an
otherwise good program. Whereas, you know, when we're
first sober, you know, what do we got
it to compare it to? How life was
before we got sober? But when I see
guys
slip, one of the first things I ask
them is,
what was true about your sobriety that stopped
being true? What was there that you were
doing or not doing that was helping you
stay sober that you changed to the point
that we you drank? And so it it's
beautiful to keep it that humility that you're
talking about. And I I see you as
a humble man, and I'm glad to see
you on a regular basis now. This is
what I needed today was to talk to
you and just,
kinda hook into,
Randy l. The times flown by, man. I
think that's how it is with us brothers.
I love you, man. I and I appreciate
you and and the man that you are
in recovery and and such
a center point of
recovery,
for the men in in Houston and what
you've done with this podcast. It's just this
is such a gift and and knowing you
is a gift. Thanks for doing this today,
brother. You're the best.
Absolutely. Love you, brother. Thank you so much.
Well, my friends, that's a wrap for today's
episode of AA Recovery Interviews. Thank you for
tuning in. If you enjoyed AA Recovery Interviews,
will you please tell others how to listen
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all extend to alcoholics everywhere.
If you want to contact me directly with
any comments, questions, or suggestions,
simply email howard@aarecoveryinterviews.com.
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