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Welcome back my friends to Aa recovery

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I'm your host, Howard A, and I'm an

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alcoholic. Sober since 01/01/1988,

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1 day at a time.

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I'm grateful you joined us. Aa recovery interviews

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is the podcast where Aa members from around

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the world share their extraordinary stories of experience,

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strength and hope.

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This is the 150 fourth interview in this

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podcast series, and features Helen M from London

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England.

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Helen tracks her nearly 3 years of sobriety

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as more than 1000 days in Aa.

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She has experienced 1 day at a time.

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Though she grew up in a home where

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neither of her parents were alcoholic. Helen suffered

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mistreatment at the hands of her 2 sisters.

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To cope, she found the emotion numbing relief

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that alcohol provided in her early childhood.

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With the die cast for an adolescents of

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drinking and other addictions,

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Helen drank herself into the t of alcohol

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abuse by her early twenties.

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By then, the inevitable consequences of daily drinking.

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Took shape in the form of lost jobs,

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ruined

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relationships and physical m that are all too

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common in the disease of alcoholism.

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Hitting bottoms along the way, Helen finally found

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the rooms of alcoholic synonymous in 20 18,

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but getting to Aa was only half the

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battle. Has her desire to drink continue to

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take her down.

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In a moment of utter despair fraught with

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failure to grasp the program, Helen path of

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salvation from drink, was illuminated in September 20

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21.

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She was done drinking and proceeded to work

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the program as suggested, even during the early

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days of Covid, when she became a meeting

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maker on several Zoom meetings she attended every

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day.

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Helen passion and enthusiasm for Aa recovery is

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infectious. As she describes the gifts of the

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program she has enjoyed.

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Working the steps, studying the big book, having

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and being a sponsor,

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spiritual awareness and frequent service work all bolster

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Helen place in the program.

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Her story bears witness to Aa members in

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their early years of the power of the

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program.

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And reminds those with many years or decades

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of sobriety that the simple path of faith

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and action is still blessed beyond question by

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a higher power.

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So please enjoy the next hour or so

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Aa recovery interviews with my friend and a

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sister,

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Helen M.

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Hi. I'm Helen.

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I am a very grateful alcoholic.

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Hi, Helen. Thanks so much for joining me

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this morning or this evening, your time.

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On a a recovery interviews. It's a real

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pleasure to have

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you here. You and I had not known

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each other prior to a Zoom meeting that

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we went to. That's correct?

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I had the opportunity to hear you tell

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your story a little bit and thought it

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was really wonderful and wanted to have you

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on

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this podcast

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as a way to get your message out

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to others and give them the hope that

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you've gotten through the program of Val alcoholic

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anonymous.

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Thank you, Howard. Thank you so much for

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having me. This is

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this is a great honor to be here

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today. Thank you.

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Now you're in London. Right? Yes. The meeting

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that you and I met in is a

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London based meeting. I never give the names

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of the actual meetings themselves because for anonymity

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reasons and sometimes,

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it might overwhelm a group if they suddenly

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have a big influx of people because people

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heard about the group on the podcast. But

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I had I had the opportunity here. You

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tell your story, and it was rich and

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engaging

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and the I'm wondering

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how a person like you

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ended up in alcoholic anonymous.

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Sometimes I ask myself that question. But,

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I am a very... I'm I'm very proud

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to be a member of alcoholic anonymous. It's

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mh. It's absolutely changed my life

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And you've been sober how long now? I've

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been sober before. I think it's 1018

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days.

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Which is if you do the maths, it's

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2 years, 9 months and a couple of

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days. So I'll be 3 years in September,

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Oh, very cool.

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Congratulations on this. Thank you. I love the

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day counters because I I have a guy

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I sponsor who I've been sponsoring for a

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really long time.

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And he always leads by saying,

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thanks to the fellowship and a God as

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I understand. I've been sober.

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I don't know, 12972

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days or something

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outrageous like that. But Yeah. I think it's

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great when you start talking in days as

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opposed to years. It breaks things down into

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more meaningful units.

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Well, I mean, for me, it was... I

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used to do it. I used to do...

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And and I still do it every single

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day 1 day at a time.

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And then in my early days, you know,

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my first 90 days, I was I was,

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you know, doing 90 days, and then and

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then it would be, you know, months, and

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I would come in every single month. And

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and announce my, you know, my neck milestone

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and then it was years. And I still

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did it by months,

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but recently,

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you know, I turned a thousand days

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and that for me, it it just blows

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my mind because

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that's that's 4 figures.

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You know, that's 4 figured. I couldn't even

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get 1 figure. I couldn't get 1 hour.

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So I had to... I did have to

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actually look on my little app.

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Today, my pink cloud app, and That always

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keeps my day count. So... Yeah. That's terrific.

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And the actual date itself is in September?

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That's correct. Nineteenth of 09/20/2120

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21. That's wonderful. So you got sober

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coming in through Zoom didn't show.

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I did, but that is not the first

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time that I came into Aa. It took

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me to... It took me over 2 years

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to get sober.

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I... The first... Time I walked into an

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Aa meeting was on the 30 first of

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August 20 19. Mh. And it took me

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2 years, 2 years and 20 days to

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get sober. Time what was happening before you

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came in that first time that would make

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you wanna even

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check it out.

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Well, I knew that I was drinking too

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much. And I had been drinking for a

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long time. I first picked up my first

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drink at the age of 5. And, you

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know, throughout the years.

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I mean, I can even go back to

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that day because I I remember it quite

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vividly.

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We were at my cousins wedding, and

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I remember, you know, I I was full

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of fear,

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and I didn't know it at the time,

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but Mh. I have... I have 2 older

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sisters, and

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1 of my sisters, particularly, III

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just didn't get along with very well and

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both of them together,

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I felt that they didn't include me and

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a lot of things. There was a lot

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of bullying going along. And Mh. So I

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would hide away or I would run away

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and and hide behind doors, and, we were

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my cousins wedding, and 1 of my sisters

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was teasing me, and I I went and

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hid behind,

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a door in a separate room, and and

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that room was was empty, but it was

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filled with champagne glasses. And I remember that

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was the first time I picked up a

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drink

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and then throughout the years, you know, 678

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09:10.

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I... I always knew where my dad's alcohol

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was. My parents are not alcoholic. But there

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was always a lot of alcohol in the

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house. You know, back in those days, there

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were those big boxes of red wine, and

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you'd pressed the little button and so I

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would go along, and I just... You know,

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I'd helped myself, but it was at the

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age of 23,

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I think that I then became a daily

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drinker, and it just progressed. You know, and

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I couldn't really

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have too much alcohol even at that age.

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But by the end of my drinking, I

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was I was drinking about a liter of

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whiskey, couple bottles of wine a day, and

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those, you know, I would have a little

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minute miniature bottles

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because III couldn't make it to, you know,

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the 4 or 5 minute walk back from

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the the corner shop. I had to have

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that little minute. And I and And I

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thought that, you know, those miniature bottles were

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quite

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a good way to let the

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shop assistant know that I only wanted a

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small amount, but I found out Na, but

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actually, only alcoholic drink those. So... That's right.

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That's right. Some some drink it proportion control,

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so to disrupt. So they won't pour themselves

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more than a shot. Right. So your your

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first drink goes back to age 5. What

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did you notice when you were a kid

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and taking those Clan

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drinks?

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Behind closed doors and as, how did it

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make you feel and what did you think

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about drinking at that time? Yeah. I think

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it made me feel

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less. Fearful.

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It made me feel

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a little bit more invincible,

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and a little bit more like an adult,

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you know, because I knew that,

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adults were able to drink

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and that's what they did. And

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and so and I I obviously always did

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it in secret, which added to that fear

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of being found out

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but I never was found out, You know,

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I was always very good at at hiding

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and keeping things secret, but but it was

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those drinks that made me... It took a

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away a lot of my anxiety for sure.

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You'd had mentioned earlier about being bullied

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by your sisters. Mh. Yeah. A what did

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the drinking do did those particular relationships with

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those sisters? Well, I would drink

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particularly when... Of them or both of them

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were being quite mean to me.

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And it would just help to numb my

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feelings. It would help to

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you know, no out what they would say

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to me. It was really just the 1

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sister who was who was the worst, but

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I felt that the other sister

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would

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you know, follow her like, a little sheep,

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and that's how I saw their relationship, and

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I saw them very, very close. And, you

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know, I'm very close to 1 of them

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now, but I'm I'm still not close to

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the other 1,

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the 1 that was that was really mean

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to me. And

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is that since the sobriety or... Since the

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sobriety,

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So my middle sister lives over in America,

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and

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00:09:52,239 --> 00:09:54,470
I went to see her last year,

272
00:09:55,107 --> 00:09:57,577
and she's actually very unwell right now. She

273
00:09:57,577 --> 00:10:00,616
she has cancer, and it's and it's devastating.

274
00:10:00,855 --> 00:10:03,162
But I went over to visit her last

275
00:10:03,162 --> 00:10:06,122
year, and III was Adam I wasn't gonna

276
00:10:06,122 --> 00:10:07,557
tell her that I'm in recovery. And I

277
00:10:07,557 --> 00:10:09,630
was 18 months at the time, coming up

278
00:10:09,630 --> 00:10:10,348
to 18 months.

279
00:10:11,942 --> 00:10:13,696
And I was adamant that wasn't gonna tell

280
00:10:13,696 --> 00:10:14,196
her

281
00:10:14,508 --> 00:10:15,167
and then

282
00:10:15,779 --> 00:10:17,050
towards the end of the week,

283
00:10:17,686 --> 00:10:20,546
we started bonding over our relationship with our

284
00:10:20,546 --> 00:10:23,105
mom. Mh. And, you know, 1 conversation led

285
00:10:23,105 --> 00:10:24,537
onto another 1, and it was in the

286
00:10:24,537 --> 00:10:26,207
journey back to the airport,

287
00:10:26,923 --> 00:10:28,276
and it was just me and her. It

288
00:10:28,276 --> 00:10:30,039
was just like something came out of me

289
00:10:30,039 --> 00:10:32,185
and I just started sharing these stories and

290
00:10:32,265 --> 00:10:34,014
Mh. And just told her that I was

291
00:10:34,014 --> 00:10:35,206
in recovery, and

292
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:37,693
we were both crying and

293
00:10:38,004 --> 00:10:39,463
I mean, it was wasn't it was an

294
00:10:39,523 --> 00:10:40,582
absolutely incredible

295
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,317
conversation and and and situation. And, you know,

296
00:10:44,477 --> 00:10:46,235
I was just able to make an amend

297
00:10:46,235 --> 00:10:47,850
to her, and I just... I'm able to

298
00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:49,370
be that sister for her that I'm... That

299
00:10:49,450 --> 00:10:51,049
I was never able to be. It was

300
00:10:51,049 --> 00:10:52,409
amazing, and I'm and I'm going back to

301
00:10:52,409 --> 00:10:54,909
see you her this September. I'm flying over

302
00:10:55,289 --> 00:10:56,904
initially to San Diego,

303
00:10:57,544 --> 00:10:58,985
where I've got a lot of friends in

304
00:10:58,985 --> 00:11:01,784
recovery, my best friend who is in recovery.

305
00:11:01,945 --> 00:11:03,945
She's over for 34 years. I met her

306
00:11:03,945 --> 00:11:06,594
on Zoom. I'm starting over in San Diego.

307
00:11:07,073 --> 00:11:08,908
And then I... And then I go up

308
00:11:08,908 --> 00:11:11,461
to La where my sponsor has just moved

309
00:11:11,461 --> 00:11:13,628
back to and that's where I'm gonna celebrate

310
00:11:13,628 --> 00:11:15,380
my 3 years. And then I fly up

311
00:11:15,380 --> 00:11:17,053
to see my sister, and then I'll go

312
00:11:17,053 --> 00:11:19,203
back. 1 of the greatest gifts in sobriety

313
00:11:19,363 --> 00:11:20,477
I think for a lot of people is

314
00:11:20,477 --> 00:11:20,977
the

315
00:11:21,529 --> 00:11:22,029
of

316
00:11:22,488 --> 00:11:26,004
relationships, even relationships where people haven't been closed

317
00:11:26,004 --> 00:11:28,002
for decades or most of their lives can

318
00:11:28,002 --> 00:11:30,134
sometimes be ironed out and

319
00:11:30,571 --> 00:11:33,272
repaired as a result of sobriety. Had you

320
00:11:33,272 --> 00:11:34,146
not stop drinking,

321
00:11:34,702 --> 00:11:36,688
what do you think your response to your

322
00:11:36,688 --> 00:11:38,277
sister being Ill would have been?

323
00:11:39,009 --> 00:11:40,847
I would have been drinking and making it

324
00:11:40,847 --> 00:11:43,903
all about me. She was she was diagnosed

325
00:11:44,043 --> 00:11:46,061
with cancer when I was drinking

326
00:11:46,613 --> 00:11:50,271
Mh. I remember walking to the corner shop

327
00:11:50,271 --> 00:11:52,736
because I wanted to sort of numb the

328
00:11:52,736 --> 00:11:55,281
pain. I remember going back and forth along

329
00:11:55,281 --> 00:11:57,128
the road going I'm gonna go to the

330
00:11:57,128 --> 00:11:58,487
shop. No. I'm not. Yes. I'm gonna go

331
00:11:58,487 --> 00:11:59,845
to the shop No. I'm not. Yes. I'm

332
00:11:59,845 --> 00:12:01,523
gonna go to the shop, and I remember

333
00:12:01,523 --> 00:12:03,440
calling somebody who is in na.

334
00:12:04,172 --> 00:12:05,442
And I spoke to him and I said,

335
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,030
I just don't know what to do. And

336
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:08,459
we we spoke on the phone and we

337
00:12:08,459 --> 00:12:10,443
prayed to together down the phone. That was

338
00:12:10,443 --> 00:12:11,475
1 of the most powerful

339
00:12:11,951 --> 00:12:13,949
Things that I have I can remember,

340
00:12:14,345 --> 00:12:15,930
but I still made it all about me.

341
00:12:16,168 --> 00:12:17,991
And I... I didn't get sober then for

342
00:12:17,991 --> 00:12:18,491
another

343
00:12:18,942 --> 00:12:21,421
9 months after that. And I couldn't I

344
00:12:21,421 --> 00:12:23,176
couldn't stop for her. I couldn't stop for

345
00:12:23,176 --> 00:12:25,648
my family. I I had to stop for

346
00:12:25,648 --> 00:12:28,201
myself. Yeah. You know? And I'm incredibly grateful

347
00:12:28,201 --> 00:12:29,955
that I was given that gift of desperation.

348
00:12:30,369 --> 00:12:32,600
And that's usually what it takes. No matter

349
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,671
how many people or how many influences you

350
00:12:34,671 --> 00:12:35,569
have in your life

351
00:12:35,945 --> 00:12:38,666
until you're willing to want it for yourself.

352
00:12:38,984 --> 00:12:41,209
I think it can sometimes be very elusive.

353
00:12:41,527 --> 00:12:43,673
You'd had mentioned that your parents weren't drinkers,

354
00:12:43,832 --> 00:12:45,438
but they they did have a alcohol in

355
00:12:45,438 --> 00:12:47,514
the house. What was your family of origin

356
00:12:47,514 --> 00:12:50,148
like growing up, especially around your parents and

357
00:12:50,148 --> 00:12:51,185
drinking in the household?

358
00:12:51,664 --> 00:12:53,042
My parents are

359
00:12:53,913 --> 00:12:55,986
very loving. I I did grow up in

360
00:12:55,986 --> 00:12:56,645
a very

361
00:12:57,022 --> 00:12:59,595
loving family apart from my sisters.

362
00:13:00,689 --> 00:13:02,779
My my mom doesn't drink. She'll drink half

363
00:13:02,779 --> 00:13:04,617
a glass champagne at Christmas time.

364
00:13:05,496 --> 00:13:06,135
My dad...

365
00:13:06,855 --> 00:13:08,293
He's not a he's not a heavy drinker

366
00:13:08,293 --> 00:13:10,451
either or, you know, he doesn't... He really

367
00:13:10,451 --> 00:13:11,865
doesn't drink that much, but

368
00:13:13,256 --> 00:13:15,166
He always has alcohol in the house. I

369
00:13:15,166 --> 00:13:16,677
think a lot of it was given to

370
00:13:16,677 --> 00:13:18,879
him over the years as gifts. He was

371
00:13:19,078 --> 00:13:20,429
he was a head master of a school

372
00:13:20,429 --> 00:13:22,042
and so he was always given

373
00:13:22,655 --> 00:13:22,814
alcohol,

374
00:13:23,529 --> 00:13:26,524
particularly whiskey. And I remember he had this

375
00:13:26,724 --> 00:13:29,196
you had this big books shelf, long, long

376
00:13:29,196 --> 00:13:30,893
books shelf, and it was filled

377
00:13:31,270 --> 00:13:34,381
with whiskey bottles. And over the years, it

378
00:13:34,381 --> 00:13:36,136
was me that made my way through them.

379
00:13:36,709 --> 00:13:38,706
You know. And and I would I would

380
00:13:38,706 --> 00:13:40,784
be very careful to make sure that, you

381
00:13:40,784 --> 00:13:43,100
know, each 1 was, you know, that, like,

382
00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:45,824
the gap queen just was the same each

383
00:13:45,824 --> 00:13:48,052
time. Every time bottle was taken down, and

384
00:13:48,052 --> 00:13:50,121
it was just it was just insane. It

385
00:13:50,121 --> 00:13:53,120
must been tough. It was tough. It was

386
00:13:53,557 --> 00:13:55,229
because I hear so many stories, Of course,

387
00:13:55,468 --> 00:13:57,538
I've been sober and have listened to stories

388
00:13:57,538 --> 00:14:00,324
and A rooms for a very long time.

389
00:14:00,563 --> 00:14:01,063
And

390
00:14:01,774 --> 00:14:03,772
it's always kind of interesting to me when

391
00:14:03,931 --> 00:14:06,249
I run into people who talk about loving

392
00:14:06,249 --> 00:14:09,045
happy childhood because that wasn't the case for

393
00:14:09,045 --> 00:14:09,785
me. It's

394
00:14:10,179 --> 00:14:12,094
often not the case for the majority of

395
00:14:12,094 --> 00:14:13,392
people in the program.

396
00:14:14,089 --> 00:14:16,803
And 1 of my friends who mentioned about

397
00:14:16,803 --> 00:14:18,021
growing up in a happy

398
00:14:18,493 --> 00:14:20,800
loving household. I asked him I said,

399
00:14:21,516 --> 00:14:23,425
how is that possible? How can someone become,

400
00:14:23,743 --> 00:14:26,050
an alcoholic coming out of that? Because my

401
00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:26,948
experience was

402
00:14:27,337 --> 00:14:29,083
I drank and used drugs because I came

403
00:14:29,083 --> 00:14:31,463
out of that kinda atmosphere. And his response

404
00:14:31,463 --> 00:14:33,050
to me was very simple. He said,

405
00:14:33,843 --> 00:14:35,113
because I drank too much beer.

406
00:14:35,842 --> 00:14:36,238
I thought.

407
00:14:37,270 --> 00:14:38,301
I can't be it.

408
00:14:39,888 --> 00:14:41,713
When when you look back on your family

409
00:14:41,713 --> 00:14:44,189
of origin, and, is there any place you

410
00:14:44,189 --> 00:14:46,343
can point either to grandparents or other people

411
00:14:46,343 --> 00:14:48,178
in the family where you think maybe you

412
00:14:48,178 --> 00:14:50,013
picked up the gene from them or was

413
00:14:50,013 --> 00:14:52,101
it just something that happened. Do Oh, a

414
00:14:52,101 --> 00:14:55,069
hundred percent. I mean, my mom, particularly,

415
00:14:57,356 --> 00:14:58,869
she always used to tell us to put

416
00:14:58,869 --> 00:15:01,275
on a brave face. Or pretend that everything

417
00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:03,827
is okay even when it's not, you know,

418
00:15:04,066 --> 00:15:06,538
and and, you know, it it was in

419
00:15:06,538 --> 00:15:08,213
my really dark days. I didn't know who

420
00:15:08,213 --> 00:15:08,931
to turn to.

421
00:15:10,141 --> 00:15:12,213
My mom doesn't believe in mental health. She

422
00:15:12,213 --> 00:15:15,081
thinks it's a fashionable phrase. But I do

423
00:15:15,081 --> 00:15:16,649
think that there are a lot of

424
00:15:17,089 --> 00:15:17,589
dry

425
00:15:18,128 --> 00:15:21,804
addicts, various types in our family. And I

426
00:15:21,804 --> 00:15:22,364
think that

427
00:15:22,923 --> 00:15:24,702
my mom has issues

428
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,914
around other things. Mh. Since I got sober,

429
00:15:29,231 --> 00:15:31,477
I... I've been learning a lot about my

430
00:15:31,532 --> 00:15:34,072
great uncle, and about how how much he

431
00:15:34,072 --> 00:15:36,312
liked to drink and what he was like

432
00:15:36,312 --> 00:15:38,538
when he came home every night drunk and

433
00:15:38,538 --> 00:15:40,367
things like that, and it's interesting, And I'm

434
00:15:40,367 --> 00:15:43,230
just starting to piece few things together. Mh.

435
00:15:43,484 --> 00:15:44,753
I I thought that I was the only

436
00:15:44,753 --> 00:15:46,340
1. I thought that I was I was

437
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:48,189
different from everybody else, but,

438
00:15:48,562 --> 00:15:50,307
I'm starting to see some patterns for sure.

439
00:15:50,798 --> 00:15:52,940
You know, those patterns are... It's it's helpful

440
00:15:52,940 --> 00:15:55,082
to be able to recognize those. If for

441
00:15:55,082 --> 00:15:57,168
no other reason then they just give yourself

442
00:15:57,223 --> 00:15:58,730
some assurance that,

443
00:15:59,223 --> 00:16:00,739
it didn't come out of this, you know,

444
00:16:00,978 --> 00:16:02,813
outer space. It's something that

445
00:16:03,211 --> 00:16:05,365
was running already running in the family when

446
00:16:05,365 --> 00:16:06,960
when we got here. That's kinda how it

447
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,555
was for me and other my parents drank,

448
00:16:08,715 --> 00:16:10,715
but there was plenty of addiction and other

449
00:16:10,715 --> 00:16:12,382
mental health issues in the family.

450
00:16:13,176 --> 00:16:14,549
You know, going back probably

451
00:16:14,923 --> 00:16:16,644
generations. And, you know, you hope that it's

452
00:16:16,764 --> 00:16:18,748
skips a generation or 2 along the way.

453
00:16:18,987 --> 00:16:21,210
But my feeling is that as long as

454
00:16:21,210 --> 00:16:23,591
it's better in our generation than it was

455
00:16:23,591 --> 00:16:26,147
in the last, there's hope for everyone. I

456
00:16:26,147 --> 00:16:28,211
remember when I was in therapy when I

457
00:16:28,211 --> 00:16:31,966
was in serious depression and serious drinking, and

458
00:16:32,419 --> 00:16:34,427
I remember putting my parents on a pedestal.

459
00:16:34,974 --> 00:16:37,199
And I would say, you know, my mom

460
00:16:37,199 --> 00:16:39,583
is the strongest person that I know and

461
00:16:39,583 --> 00:16:41,967
she never talks about her feelings and I've

462
00:16:41,967 --> 00:16:44,209
never... Seen my mom cry, and I remember

463
00:16:44,209 --> 00:16:46,595
my therapist looking at me and saying, and

464
00:16:46,595 --> 00:16:49,355
is that is that strong? You know, and

465
00:16:49,553 --> 00:16:50,985
because my mom would... You know, she doesn't

466
00:16:50,985 --> 00:16:53,371
talk about her emotions. And so I I

467
00:16:53,371 --> 00:16:55,599
do know that, you know, if I become

468
00:16:55,599 --> 00:16:56,076
a mother,

469
00:16:56,569 --> 00:16:59,913
I would definitely allow my kids to show

470
00:16:59,913 --> 00:17:02,063
their emotions and feel their feelings because we

471
00:17:02,063 --> 00:17:03,417
weren't allowed to do that as children. And

472
00:17:03,417 --> 00:17:04,532
we're still not allowed to do that as

473
00:17:04,532 --> 00:17:07,592
children. I remember when my sister was diagnosed

474
00:17:07,648 --> 00:17:09,476
with cancer, and we did a a big

475
00:17:09,476 --> 00:17:12,656
family zoom, and I I started crying and

476
00:17:12,656 --> 00:17:14,087
my mom said, right. Stop crying.

477
00:17:14,817 --> 00:17:16,326
Let's focus on that... The next thing and

478
00:17:16,326 --> 00:17:18,788
the. And my sister said to me, mom,

479
00:17:18,946 --> 00:17:21,408
she's allowed to cry. My sister then went

480
00:17:21,408 --> 00:17:22,067
into surgery

481
00:17:22,773 --> 00:17:23,749
and then

482
00:17:24,123 --> 00:17:26,346
came out. She woke up. And the first

483
00:17:26,346 --> 00:17:28,252
thing she texted me was did you allow

484
00:17:28,252 --> 00:17:30,476
yourself to cry? And I just thought what

485
00:17:30,476 --> 00:17:31,349
an amazing thing.

486
00:17:32,158 --> 00:17:34,781
You know? Yeah. So somewhere along the way

487
00:17:34,781 --> 00:17:37,166
there's this intuition in your family that is

488
00:17:37,166 --> 00:17:37,325
okay.

489
00:17:38,278 --> 00:17:40,583
Irrespective of what your mother says is the

490
00:17:40,583 --> 00:17:42,824
rule. And yeah I get that. That's gotta

491
00:17:42,824 --> 00:17:44,255
be kinda tough for you when you were

492
00:17:44,255 --> 00:17:45,766
a kid to not be able to show

493
00:17:45,766 --> 00:17:47,219
those emotions or

494
00:17:47,673 --> 00:17:49,740
always having to put the best face on

495
00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:51,899
what might not be such a great situation.

496
00:17:52,693 --> 00:17:53,193
Fascinating.

497
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,097
You mentioned

498
00:17:55,628 --> 00:17:57,770
the... Those being issues that you dealt with

499
00:17:57,770 --> 00:18:00,169
in therapy and and most such us myself

500
00:18:00,169 --> 00:18:02,078
included for years and years have been involved

501
00:18:02,078 --> 00:18:03,931
with therapy. It's a good ad adjunct

502
00:18:04,385 --> 00:18:06,852
to the program of alcoholic anonymous. It's not

503
00:18:06,852 --> 00:18:07,886
a replacement for it.

504
00:18:09,096 --> 00:18:11,724
But it's certainly very helpful. At what age

505
00:18:11,724 --> 00:18:13,317
and at what point in your life did

506
00:18:13,317 --> 00:18:15,308
you start avail yourself of therapy?

507
00:18:15,785 --> 00:18:17,002
I had

508
00:18:17,394 --> 00:18:20,424
had a very nasty breakup with somebody. It

509
00:18:20,424 --> 00:18:21,482
was mid thirties.

510
00:18:21,940 --> 00:18:24,673
U. And he was quite a manipulative

511
00:18:25,449 --> 00:18:26,746
person and

512
00:18:27,296 --> 00:18:28,352
all of my confidence

513
00:18:28,726 --> 00:18:31,189
just was shattered in myself, and I would

514
00:18:31,189 --> 00:18:32,380
wake up, and I would drink,

515
00:18:33,651 --> 00:18:35,319
and I just didn't want to wake up

516
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,162
anymore. And I remember going to therapy.

517
00:18:37,719 --> 00:18:39,652
But because I was drinking,

518
00:18:40,266 --> 00:18:42,096
you know, not much was really going in,

519
00:18:42,414 --> 00:18:44,658
and there were there were periods of time

520
00:18:44,658 --> 00:18:46,970
when when she would even say, you know,

521
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:48,884
I I don't think it's right that we

522
00:18:48,884 --> 00:18:51,058
carry on until you can sort your

523
00:18:51,994 --> 00:18:53,030
alcohol ism out.

524
00:18:54,317 --> 00:18:55,748
And she did try to get me into

525
00:18:55,828 --> 00:18:58,235
Aa, you know, but when I got sober,

526
00:18:59,086 --> 00:19:01,247
that was when the third... I came back

527
00:19:01,247 --> 00:19:03,628
into therapy. Mh. And that was when things

528
00:19:03,628 --> 00:19:06,431
really helped, you know, doing doing therapy along

529
00:19:07,042 --> 00:19:09,503
with my steps and having my sponsor as

530
00:19:09,503 --> 00:19:10,035
well back

531
00:19:10,949 --> 00:19:13,017
is was just incredible for me. And then

532
00:19:13,096 --> 00:19:16,595
I went from having weekly sessions to every

533
00:19:16,595 --> 00:19:19,155
2 weeks and then every month And then,

534
00:19:19,235 --> 00:19:21,303
you know, now III don't have therapy sessions,

535
00:19:21,382 --> 00:19:22,575
but I do know that she's always there

536
00:19:22,575 --> 00:19:24,643
if I need her. It's so important too

537
00:19:24,643 --> 00:19:26,893
for us to know that the therapists are

538
00:19:27,521 --> 00:19:30,223
sympathetic too an understanding of the program of

539
00:19:30,223 --> 00:19:32,710
alcoholic in anonymous. I went to a psychologist

540
00:19:33,085 --> 00:19:33,800
very, very

541
00:19:34,928 --> 00:19:37,311
almost before I stopped drinking, but a few

542
00:19:37,311 --> 00:19:39,457
few years into it where

543
00:19:40,807 --> 00:19:42,237
he never brought up the fact that I

544
00:19:42,237 --> 00:19:43,111
was drinking too much.

545
00:19:43,922 --> 00:19:45,991
We talked about everything, but that seems like

546
00:19:45,991 --> 00:19:47,900
we talked around the drugs and alcohol.

547
00:19:48,696 --> 00:19:49,196
And

548
00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:51,163
in a lot of ways, that kinda did

549
00:19:51,163 --> 00:19:53,009
me into disservice had he ever faced me

550
00:19:53,009 --> 00:19:54,769
down with the fact that I was using

551
00:19:54,769 --> 00:19:55,329
and drinking.

552
00:19:56,210 --> 00:19:57,730
I don't know. I might have gotten sober

553
00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:59,865
sooner, things, you know, I might not have

554
00:19:59,984 --> 00:20:01,904
experience some of the pretty negative things that

555
00:20:01,904 --> 00:20:04,065
happened as a result of continuing to drink

556
00:20:04,065 --> 00:20:06,464
use drugs, but he used to say keep

557
00:20:06,464 --> 00:20:08,065
coming back, bring your checkbook.

558
00:20:09,105 --> 00:20:09,400
Just

559
00:20:11,912 --> 00:20:12,311
Yeah.

560
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:15,182
So what what were your school years like

561
00:20:15,182 --> 00:20:17,495
with regard to drinking? I went to boarding

562
00:20:17,495 --> 00:20:18,771
school at the age of 11.

563
00:20:19,504 --> 00:20:22,296
And while I was at school because I

564
00:20:22,296 --> 00:20:23,811
was away from my sisters,

565
00:20:24,290 --> 00:20:27,081
I didn't have that feeling that I I

566
00:20:27,081 --> 00:20:28,278
needed to go and pick up a drink

567
00:20:28,278 --> 00:20:30,520
every time I had any fear or anxiety.

568
00:20:30,679 --> 00:20:33,219
It was only when I came home, and

569
00:20:33,219 --> 00:20:34,251
my sisters were there.

570
00:20:34,806 --> 00:20:37,283
So actually, I did quite well at school.

571
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,195
I I've got good grades.

572
00:20:39,673 --> 00:20:41,027
I was an all rounder I was very

573
00:20:41,027 --> 00:20:42,541
sporty. I was into my theater,

574
00:20:43,736 --> 00:20:45,966
and academically, I was very strong.

575
00:20:46,539 --> 00:20:48,059
Then when I left school,

576
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:50,460
my dad pick, you know, being the head

577
00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:52,220
master that he has wanted me to go

578
00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:52,880
to university,

579
00:20:53,259 --> 00:20:55,154
but I I wanted to get into drama

580
00:20:55,194 --> 00:20:57,269
school. Mh. And I had a couple of

581
00:20:57,269 --> 00:20:59,982
years, 2 or 3 years in between school

582
00:20:59,982 --> 00:21:03,015
and drama school where I was working and

583
00:21:03,666 --> 00:21:05,575
and I started earning money pretty quickly,

584
00:21:06,927 --> 00:21:07,427
but

585
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,085
it was it was really when I and

586
00:21:10,284 --> 00:21:12,684
got into a relationship with a guy who...

587
00:21:13,244 --> 00:21:14,444
I know we're not really meant to say

588
00:21:14,444 --> 00:21:16,524
that other people are alcoholic, but I I

589
00:21:16,524 --> 00:21:18,459
do believe that he is an alcoholic. And

590
00:21:18,539 --> 00:21:20,614
I remember knowing at the time that I

591
00:21:20,614 --> 00:21:22,769
was drinking too much, but being in complete

592
00:21:22,769 --> 00:21:24,764
denial that I was an alcoholic it myself.

593
00:21:25,323 --> 00:21:27,334
And in order to help him get sober.

594
00:21:27,574 --> 00:21:29,831
I did manage to stay sober myself

595
00:21:30,529 --> 00:21:32,687
for 9 months, and it was after we

596
00:21:32,687 --> 00:21:33,506
broke up

597
00:21:33,885 --> 00:21:34,339
that

598
00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:37,200
you know, And III felt trapped in that

599
00:21:37,339 --> 00:21:38,940
relationship, so trapped for 2 years.

600
00:21:39,819 --> 00:21:41,919
And I finally plucked up the courage to

601
00:21:41,980 --> 00:21:42,779
break up with him.

602
00:21:43,434 --> 00:21:43,934
And

603
00:21:44,311 --> 00:21:45,348
from that day,

604
00:21:46,225 --> 00:21:48,857
I drank every single day. III remember coming

605
00:21:48,857 --> 00:21:50,612
home to my... I was living in Spain

606
00:21:50,612 --> 00:21:52,766
at the time doing a a theater tour.

607
00:21:53,419 --> 00:21:55,896
And I brought home, like, 4 or 5

608
00:21:55,896 --> 00:21:57,893
bottles of wine through all of us to

609
00:21:57,893 --> 00:22:00,863
share. And from that day, I I drank

610
00:22:00,863 --> 00:22:03,737
every single day. You know, after after drama

611
00:22:03,737 --> 00:22:05,573
school, because that was my thing, I really

612
00:22:05,573 --> 00:22:08,127
wanted to go into acting, but Mh. I

613
00:22:08,127 --> 00:22:09,026
think because

614
00:22:09,578 --> 00:22:11,566
you know, there's there's not much money in

615
00:22:11,566 --> 00:22:13,713
acting until you get quite big and I

616
00:22:13,713 --> 00:22:16,178
needed other jobs to pay the bills. You

617
00:22:16,178 --> 00:22:19,255
know, academically, you know, being at school and

618
00:22:19,294 --> 00:22:21,449
everything helped me get good jobs, and and

619
00:22:21,609 --> 00:22:23,125
I was earning good money, but I was

620
00:22:23,125 --> 00:22:25,838
spending everything on booze, everything. Mh.

621
00:22:26,317 --> 00:22:29,447
And I I lost my motivation and determination

622
00:22:29,447 --> 00:22:29,927
in life,

623
00:22:30,566 --> 00:22:32,883
and my acting career really went down. It's

624
00:22:32,883 --> 00:22:34,801
it's just incredible how powerful this thing is.

625
00:22:34,961 --> 00:22:36,814
It just takes over you. My... Life is

626
00:22:36,814 --> 00:22:37,691
completely un manageable.

627
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:39,367
You know, and then towards the end, I

628
00:22:39,367 --> 00:22:40,884
just couldn't even get out of bed. Yeah.

629
00:22:41,043 --> 00:22:43,118
Isn't it ironic. How it helps you survive

630
00:22:43,118 --> 00:22:45,126
for so many years, but then... It it

631
00:22:45,126 --> 00:22:47,687
kind of flips and you struggled to survive

632
00:22:47,742 --> 00:22:48,059
without it.

633
00:22:49,010 --> 00:22:49,985
You mentioned

634
00:22:50,436 --> 00:22:52,594
about the the sisters it sounds me, like,

635
00:22:52,753 --> 00:22:53,950
when you were at home, there was a

636
00:22:53,950 --> 00:22:54,929
lot of anxiety

637
00:22:55,466 --> 00:22:57,141
and fear and all the other things that

638
00:22:57,141 --> 00:22:58,976
would make 1 want to drink to escape

639
00:22:58,976 --> 00:23:00,903
their feelings. But you went to boarding school

640
00:23:00,903 --> 00:23:03,050
at 11. I've interviewed a number of different

641
00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:05,516
people who went to boarding school for their...

642
00:23:06,965 --> 00:23:08,805
Grammar school and high school and that sort

643
00:23:08,805 --> 00:23:10,025
of thing. And

644
00:23:10,805 --> 00:23:13,205
some found it really helpful to be away

645
00:23:13,205 --> 00:23:15,776
from the family in the house, and the...

646
00:23:16,094 --> 00:23:18,184
What was going on at home? Others felt

647
00:23:18,637 --> 00:23:21,578
somewhat abandoned. How did you feel about going

648
00:23:21,578 --> 00:23:24,615
to boarding school? I really enjoyed it. I

649
00:23:24,774 --> 00:23:26,444
I really enjoyed it initially,

650
00:23:27,637 --> 00:23:29,569
but then when I hit.

651
00:23:30,518 --> 00:23:32,913
I think it was. I then developed a

652
00:23:32,913 --> 00:23:34,350
an eating disorder as well.

653
00:23:35,148 --> 00:23:37,304
So that was when things... You know, I

654
00:23:37,304 --> 00:23:39,140
started to enjoy things less.

655
00:23:40,266 --> 00:23:40,766
But

656
00:23:41,217 --> 00:23:44,072
the majority, I really enjoyed boarding school. I

657
00:23:44,072 --> 00:23:46,927
just really enjoyed being away from home.

658
00:23:47,498 --> 00:23:50,199
Life. Even though, you know, I was still

659
00:23:50,199 --> 00:23:51,971
looking at my parents as

660
00:23:52,504 --> 00:23:54,513
you know, putting them on a pedestal and

661
00:23:54,982 --> 00:23:56,335
and I love to be... I loved being

662
00:23:56,335 --> 00:23:58,721
around my parents. It's only, you know, since

663
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,391
I got sober and well I know before

664
00:24:00,391 --> 00:24:02,220
that being in therapy that I realized that

665
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:04,460
I wasn't able to... Show my emotions at

666
00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:04,698
home,

667
00:24:05,492 --> 00:24:07,080
but it was really my... It was really

668
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,303
my my sisters that I wanted to get

669
00:24:09,303 --> 00:24:11,446
away from. Yeah. I get that. That... That's

670
00:24:11,446 --> 00:24:14,807
kinda tough. When you mentioned about the the

671
00:24:14,807 --> 00:24:15,684
eating disorder,

672
00:24:16,322 --> 00:24:18,395
many of us, of course have c addictions,

673
00:24:18,635 --> 00:24:19,454
whether it's

674
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:21,880
alcohol and drugs or alcohol and

675
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,160
eating disorders or gambling or debt or sex

676
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,779
or whatever else. That's

677
00:24:29,454 --> 00:24:32,751
did you identify your your eating addiction

678
00:24:33,210 --> 00:24:36,326
before your alcoholism or did you see 1

679
00:24:36,326 --> 00:24:37,925
relating to the other from the start?

680
00:24:38,659 --> 00:24:41,136
Obviously, I started drinking first,

681
00:24:42,335 --> 00:24:44,013
because I was young. I was 5,

682
00:24:44,573 --> 00:24:46,091
and I was always a very good eater,

683
00:24:46,251 --> 00:24:47,690
and I was always very active.

684
00:24:48,103 --> 00:24:49,558
But my eating disorder

685
00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:53,456
because my mom has issues with food. Mh

686
00:24:53,592 --> 00:24:55,597
that was the thing. Ever... I can remember,

687
00:24:55,756 --> 00:24:58,465
she's always been on a diet or been

688
00:24:58,465 --> 00:25:00,856
in weight watchers, and everything in in weight

689
00:25:00,856 --> 00:25:03,337
watchers is done by points. And I can

690
00:25:03,337 --> 00:25:05,714
almost... I can pin that point when I

691
00:25:05,714 --> 00:25:08,647
remember looking in her weight watchers book and

692
00:25:08,647 --> 00:25:10,724
seeing how many point, I was eating,

693
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,313
you know, at the time, and I was

694
00:25:12,313 --> 00:25:13,449
only 15 16

695
00:25:13,822 --> 00:25:15,570
and being shocked at how much I was

696
00:25:15,570 --> 00:25:18,033
eating. And that's how my eating disorder kicked

697
00:25:18,033 --> 00:25:21,090
in, that I remember then when I was

698
00:25:21,306 --> 00:25:22,282
around about

699
00:25:22,816 --> 00:25:26,892
19 20 something like that. I remember thinking

700
00:25:27,028 --> 00:25:29,925
well. You know, if I substitute my dinner

701
00:25:30,299 --> 00:25:32,523
for a bottle of wine because liquid is

702
00:25:32,523 --> 00:25:35,223
gonna be easier to digest. U. Then, you

703
00:25:35,223 --> 00:25:37,543
know, so that's how it kind of started

704
00:25:37,543 --> 00:25:38,442
to progress

705
00:25:38,819 --> 00:25:40,973
until it then became a daily thing at

706
00:25:40,973 --> 00:25:43,286
the end of age of 23. Yeah. So

707
00:25:43,286 --> 00:25:45,758
really booze after a while, you know, was

708
00:25:45,758 --> 00:25:47,056
my was my morning

709
00:25:47,367 --> 00:25:49,910
breakfast lunch and dinner, you know, and everything

710
00:25:49,910 --> 00:25:50,387
in between.

711
00:25:51,102 --> 00:25:52,533
I was a 24 hour drinker.

712
00:25:53,725 --> 00:25:56,229
So it would it also became the gateway

713
00:25:56,286 --> 00:25:59,072
into your eating addiction then. Yeah. Absolutely. I

714
00:25:59,072 --> 00:26:00,824
mean, I have cross addictions, Drugs as a

715
00:26:00,824 --> 00:26:02,336
huge part of my story as well.

716
00:26:03,386 --> 00:26:05,852
Food, obviously, a ga I doubled in gambling

717
00:26:05,852 --> 00:26:08,079
a little bit. I mean, III could've have

718
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:09,272
gone into a lot of fellowship.

719
00:26:10,147 --> 00:26:11,022
But for me,

720
00:26:11,754 --> 00:26:13,908
You know, the first drug that I picked

721
00:26:13,908 --> 00:26:14,727
up was

722
00:26:15,105 --> 00:26:17,179
alcohol. Yeah. And the last drug that I

723
00:26:17,179 --> 00:26:18,876
put down was alcohol. And

724
00:26:19,904 --> 00:26:23,745
for me, alcoholic anonymous has has really helped

725
00:26:24,041 --> 00:26:26,444
with every aspect in my life. Do you

726
00:26:26,444 --> 00:26:28,924
feel like A alcoholic anonymous then has a...

727
00:26:29,164 --> 00:26:30,625
Help you address the other

728
00:26:31,005 --> 00:26:34,377
addictions? 100 percent, a hundred percent It's... Because

729
00:26:34,377 --> 00:26:38,757
people allowed me to respect myself and showed

730
00:26:38,757 --> 00:26:41,146
me how to respect myself. And I think,

731
00:26:41,305 --> 00:26:43,393
you know, because it's an honest program. I

732
00:26:43,393 --> 00:26:45,231
really had to start getting honest with myself.

733
00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:47,468
Can you walk us down the path a

734
00:26:47,468 --> 00:26:48,367
little bit from

735
00:26:48,826 --> 00:26:49,566
when you

736
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:50,619
graduated

737
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,400
from high school and the the thing you

738
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,119
mentioned some about acting jobs and doing other

739
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,119
things to support yourself while you pursuing that.

740
00:26:59,733 --> 00:27:01,328
Can you tell me a little bit more

741
00:27:01,328 --> 00:27:03,720
about that what that time frame was like

742
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,474
before you actually came into Aa?

743
00:27:06,032 --> 00:27:08,998
Sure. So I left... School, it would have

744
00:27:08,998 --> 00:27:09,957
been at 18.

745
00:27:10,517 --> 00:27:11,017
And

746
00:27:11,635 --> 00:27:14,032
before I was drinking daily, I think I

747
00:27:14,032 --> 00:27:15,550
was battling more with my eating,

748
00:27:16,605 --> 00:27:18,525
And and then at the age of 23,

749
00:27:19,085 --> 00:27:20,605
I was... As I said, I was

750
00:27:21,164 --> 00:27:23,005
I was away in Spain, and I was

751
00:27:23,005 --> 00:27:24,684
traveling with a a theater company.

752
00:27:25,419 --> 00:27:27,734
And then, you know, my acting career never

753
00:27:27,734 --> 00:27:28,133
took off,

754
00:27:28,851 --> 00:27:31,644
I think because you know, my motivation went

755
00:27:31,644 --> 00:27:34,474
down and I needed I needed jobs. To

756
00:27:34,535 --> 00:27:35,275
help me

757
00:27:35,894 --> 00:27:38,634
pay the bills, and I would always gravitate

758
00:27:39,494 --> 00:27:39,994
to

759
00:27:40,375 --> 00:27:40,875
hospitality

760
00:27:41,268 --> 00:27:43,574
So, of course, in hospitality, you know, there's

761
00:27:43,574 --> 00:27:45,800
always a lot of booze. And, you know,

762
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,345
very quickly, I learned to put whiskey in

763
00:27:48,345 --> 00:27:50,253
my morning coffee or finish off other people's

764
00:27:50,253 --> 00:27:50,753
drinks

765
00:27:51,863 --> 00:27:53,621
I always knew where the cameras were, so

766
00:27:53,781 --> 00:27:56,338
I wasn't caught doing things like that. And,

767
00:27:56,418 --> 00:27:58,096
you know, I've still carried on here and

768
00:27:58,096 --> 00:27:59,861
there with my... With my acting, but even

769
00:27:59,861 --> 00:28:02,796
acting, you know, going on festivals or whatever.

770
00:28:02,954 --> 00:28:05,016
There's there's always a lot of alcohol. People

771
00:28:05,016 --> 00:28:07,413
are always drinking. You know, It's it's not

772
00:28:07,413 --> 00:28:10,147
it's not great for a potential alcoholic. And

773
00:28:10,604 --> 00:28:13,077
I got a very good job working in

774
00:28:13,077 --> 00:28:16,210
a restaurant. It's in Central London, you know,

775
00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:18,369
deep down looking back at that. I mean,

776
00:28:18,529 --> 00:28:20,150
I was suspended from work

777
00:28:21,009 --> 00:28:23,095
for for for... What they didn't know was

778
00:28:23,095 --> 00:28:24,846
to do with alcohol, but I know that

779
00:28:24,846 --> 00:28:26,937
it was to do with alcohol. And

780
00:28:27,313 --> 00:28:29,621
I left that job and said, right. All

781
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:30,789
I'm gonna do is

782
00:28:31,624 --> 00:28:33,768
is act, you know, and I'm gonna put

783
00:28:33,768 --> 00:28:36,231
everything into my acting, but I couldn't because,

784
00:28:36,628 --> 00:28:38,535
I was just drinking, you know, the whole

785
00:28:38,535 --> 00:28:40,305
time. And so I actually

786
00:28:41,412 --> 00:28:43,406
completely ran out of money. I ended, you

787
00:28:43,406 --> 00:28:44,842
know how it talks about, you know, sorted

788
00:28:44,842 --> 00:28:46,437
in places in the big book, and I

789
00:28:46,437 --> 00:28:48,351
ended up going into a strip club. And

790
00:28:48,511 --> 00:28:50,026
I was working in a strip club for

791
00:28:50,026 --> 00:28:50,345
years.

792
00:28:50,999 --> 00:28:52,915
And I was earning very good money, but

793
00:28:53,075 --> 00:28:55,789
I was spending every penny every single penny

794
00:28:55,789 --> 00:28:56,747
on drugs and alcohol.

795
00:28:57,545 --> 00:28:58,503
And I remember,

796
00:28:59,541 --> 00:29:01,551
I was I was 36,

797
00:29:01,790 --> 00:29:03,306
and I was lying in bed.

798
00:29:04,342 --> 00:29:05,538
God knows what time of the day it

799
00:29:05,538 --> 00:29:06,655
was. I never knew what time of the

800
00:29:06,655 --> 00:29:08,569
day it was And I remember lying a

801
00:29:08,569 --> 00:29:09,707
bed a night, and I

802
00:29:10,179 --> 00:29:11,636
saw on Facebook.

803
00:29:12,093 --> 00:29:13,311
Somebody had

804
00:29:13,688 --> 00:29:15,443
posted that they were 2 years sober.

805
00:29:15,922 --> 00:29:17,995
And I didn't know this person, but for

806
00:29:17,995 --> 00:29:19,532
some reason, we were

807
00:29:20,163 --> 00:29:23,262
we were friends on Facebook. Mh. And I

808
00:29:23,262 --> 00:29:25,589
messaged him directly and asked him how he

809
00:29:25,725 --> 00:29:26,996
how he did it, and he said,

810
00:29:27,791 --> 00:29:28,188
aa.

811
00:29:28,999 --> 00:29:29,499
And

812
00:29:30,037 --> 00:29:31,474
I went into my first meeting,

813
00:29:32,192 --> 00:29:33,789
and I was 36,

814
00:29:34,268 --> 00:29:35,545
and it was on the 30 first of

815
00:29:35,625 --> 00:29:37,700
August 20 19, and I can picture it

816
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:40,034
now, Mh. And that's, you know, that's not

817
00:29:40,034 --> 00:29:41,474
my sobriety date, but that's the date that

818
00:29:41,554 --> 00:29:43,634
I admitted that I have a problem. And

819
00:29:43,634 --> 00:29:45,234
then when I got sober in

820
00:29:45,808 --> 00:29:48,345
20 21, that's the date that I accepted

821
00:29:48,345 --> 00:29:48,503
it.

822
00:29:49,296 --> 00:29:51,515
And I remember I remember walking into that

823
00:29:51,515 --> 00:29:52,015
meeting

824
00:29:52,466 --> 00:29:52,966
and

825
00:29:53,273 --> 00:29:56,290
the lady who chair was talking about like

826
00:29:56,290 --> 00:29:57,980
this internal tremor

827
00:29:58,354 --> 00:29:59,068
that she had.

828
00:29:59,703 --> 00:30:03,075
And I suddenly related because I had this

829
00:30:03,130 --> 00:30:04,027
internal tremor

830
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:04,900
constantly.

831
00:30:05,351 --> 00:30:07,652
I hadn't I hadn't physically been shaking at

832
00:30:07,652 --> 00:30:09,079
that point. You couldn't see it, but I

833
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:11,083
had this internal tram and I always put

834
00:30:11,083 --> 00:30:13,400
it down to anxiety, and it would wake

835
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,519
me up in the middle of the night.

836
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:16,916
I felt like I was shaking like anything,

837
00:30:17,236 --> 00:30:19,490
but I wasn't, that point. And so I

838
00:30:19,490 --> 00:30:22,049
would drink to calm my anxiety, you know,

839
00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:23,890
what I thought it was. Mh.

840
00:30:24,369 --> 00:30:26,690
And and I started I started relating to

841
00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:27,305
things and

842
00:30:27,744 --> 00:30:29,502
I remember they shoved a big book in

843
00:30:29,502 --> 00:30:29,902
my hand,

844
00:30:30,701 --> 00:30:31,980
and they wrote the date in it, and

845
00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:33,738
they just said keep coming back. And I

846
00:30:33,738 --> 00:30:35,416
kind of fl in and out of Aa

847
00:30:35,416 --> 00:30:35,655
for,

848
00:30:36,787 --> 00:30:39,010
about a year. And this is Pre Covid

849
00:30:39,010 --> 00:30:40,914
we're talking about right now. Yeah. This is

850
00:30:40,914 --> 00:30:43,057
just the just before Covid. And I went

851
00:30:43,057 --> 00:30:44,504
to a lot of meetings, like, did. I

852
00:30:44,584 --> 00:30:46,421
I actually really enjoyed going to meetings, and

853
00:30:46,501 --> 00:30:48,578
I got a week of sobriety because I

854
00:30:48,578 --> 00:30:49,777
was staying up with my parents,

855
00:30:50,416 --> 00:30:52,342
and I I came cling to them that

856
00:30:52,421 --> 00:30:54,644
I that I was in Aa. What was

857
00:30:54,644 --> 00:30:57,025
their response? Yeah. They didn't take it very

858
00:30:57,025 --> 00:30:59,247
well. Why not? Because of course, you know,

859
00:30:59,327 --> 00:31:00,255
a daughter of theirs

860
00:31:00,929 --> 00:31:02,119
be an alcoholic. Right?

861
00:31:03,468 --> 00:31:05,689
And my... I remember my mom said to

862
00:31:05,689 --> 00:31:07,435
me, well, you know, this this stops now.

863
00:31:07,673 --> 00:31:10,075
Right? This stops now. And and then she

864
00:31:10,075 --> 00:31:11,830
told my dad, and I went off to

865
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:13,824
a meeting and I came home, and they

866
00:31:13,824 --> 00:31:15,978
were both sitting at the table, and my

867
00:31:15,978 --> 00:31:17,573
mom said, I've told you dad, and I

868
00:31:17,573 --> 00:31:18,450
just went, oh, god.

869
00:31:19,418 --> 00:31:21,005
Because I was I told my mom,

870
00:31:22,036 --> 00:31:23,622
because I was so worried that they were

871
00:31:23,622 --> 00:31:26,160
gonna find out how much of dad's whiskey

872
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,242
that I was drink, king. Right. They've been

873
00:31:28,242 --> 00:31:28,799
given this,

874
00:31:29,515 --> 00:31:31,505
bottle of vodka by somebody. It was a

875
00:31:31,505 --> 00:31:33,414
2 liter bottle of vodka, and I drank

876
00:31:33,414 --> 00:31:35,403
the whole thing, and then obviously filled out

877
00:31:35,403 --> 00:31:36,063
with water

878
00:31:36,454 --> 00:31:38,846
and then, before they noticed, I would fill

879
00:31:38,846 --> 00:31:40,201
it up with vodka and then drink the

880
00:31:40,201 --> 00:31:41,557
vodka and then fill up with water and

881
00:31:41,557 --> 00:31:43,949
all that kind kinda stuff. And and then

882
00:31:43,949 --> 00:31:46,434
my mum had sm it. Realized that it

883
00:31:46,434 --> 00:31:48,981
wasn't actually vodka and it was water. And

884
00:31:49,299 --> 00:31:51,311
and so, you know, my my dad

885
00:31:51,766 --> 00:31:53,835
was very shocked, and he didn't really say

886
00:31:53,835 --> 00:31:56,634
an awful lot. But my mom would say

887
00:31:56,634 --> 00:31:59,336
to me things like, right. Well, this this

888
00:31:59,336 --> 00:32:02,913
stops now. And she said, we're, we assume

889
00:32:02,913 --> 00:32:04,128
that you're not on drugs

890
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:06,920
and I and I just went... I just

891
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,599
lied, and I just said, no, ma'am, you

892
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:09,880
know, and in my head, I was thinking

893
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,319
well, You know, if that helps you then

894
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:13,055
fine. You know. The next day, she said

895
00:32:13,173 --> 00:32:14,520
to me, she get... She gave me a

896
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,343
big hug. I remember that she did give

897
00:32:16,343 --> 00:32:18,086
me a big hug, and then she said

898
00:32:18,086 --> 00:32:19,908
to me, I don't think your lena ups.

899
00:32:20,225 --> 00:32:21,752
To and that was really her just saying,

900
00:32:21,911 --> 00:32:23,900
I don't want you to relapse. You know,

901
00:32:24,059 --> 00:32:26,469
over the years, it's been amazing

902
00:32:26,845 --> 00:32:30,435
how much they have how how... Like, they've

903
00:32:30,435 --> 00:32:30,935
grown

904
00:32:31,309 --> 00:32:32,444
in their acceptance

905
00:32:32,897 --> 00:32:33,453
of This.

906
00:32:34,247 --> 00:32:35,303
Because even

907
00:32:36,074 --> 00:32:38,799
last the Christmas just gone. We went out

908
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:39,119
for...

909
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,960
We went out for lunch,

910
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:42,180
and

911
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:44,480
they said for the very first time in

912
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,615
public, the words aa. It's And because normally,

913
00:32:47,775 --> 00:32:49,534
they would say, you know, are you... My

914
00:32:49,534 --> 00:32:50,815
mom would say... In fact, my dad actually

915
00:32:50,815 --> 00:32:52,654
doesn't really ask me anything about it, but

916
00:32:52,654 --> 00:32:54,015
it's my mom that she'll say to me,

917
00:32:54,174 --> 00:32:55,154
you know, are you

918
00:32:55,629 --> 00:32:57,408
you know, are you still going to your

919
00:32:57,947 --> 00:32:59,944
meetings quite quietly, and I'll say, yes, ma'am.

920
00:33:00,184 --> 00:33:02,102
I go to my meetings of alcoholic and

921
00:33:02,102 --> 00:33:02,501
anonymous of us.

922
00:33:04,114 --> 00:33:06,182
You Sure. People might be listening.

923
00:33:06,898 --> 00:33:08,193
I'm right. Exactly.

924
00:33:09,443 --> 00:33:10,477
We'll be right back.

925
00:33:11,288 --> 00:33:14,233
My friends, if you're enjoying Aa recovery interviews,

926
00:33:14,631 --> 00:33:16,382
I invite you to check out my latest

927
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audiobook book,

928
00:33:17,735 --> 00:33:20,057
alcoholic anonymous. The story of how more than

929
00:33:20,057 --> 00:33:22,523
100 men have recovered from alcoholism.

930
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:25,069
This is the word for word covered to

931
00:33:25,069 --> 00:33:26,978
cover reading of the first edition of the

932
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big book, published in 19 39.

933
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Have a free listen at audible,

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940
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or second editions missing from the third and

941
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942
00:33:51,843 --> 00:33:54,156
It's also available from Amazon as a Kindle

943
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944
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945
00:33:57,426 --> 00:33:58,383
You're going to love it.

946
00:33:59,739 --> 00:34:00,616
And we're back.

947
00:34:01,905 --> 00:34:03,971
What did she mean by when she said

948
00:34:03,971 --> 00:34:06,459
this stops now. Was she talking about aa

949
00:34:06,515 --> 00:34:08,875
or drinking or what? She was talking about

950
00:34:08,994 --> 00:34:10,581
the drinking as then I have to stop

951
00:34:10,581 --> 00:34:13,041
drinking right now. So she thought it was

952
00:34:13,041 --> 00:34:14,469
sufficient enough for her to just tell you

953
00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:16,136
to stop even though here you were going

954
00:34:16,136 --> 00:34:18,935
to aa because you couldn't. A Absolutely. You

955
00:34:18,935 --> 00:34:19,813
know. And

956
00:34:20,291 --> 00:34:21,966
and then, you know, it was a year

957
00:34:21,966 --> 00:34:22,945
after that

958
00:34:23,402 --> 00:34:25,635
that I I did actually call them. I

959
00:34:25,635 --> 00:34:27,724
was in a really, really bad way. And

960
00:34:27,883 --> 00:34:29,159
I was living down here in london in

961
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,030
this flat, and I called them, and they

962
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:33,465
they came down and picked me up, you

963
00:34:33,465 --> 00:34:35,061
know, my parents were in their seventies, and

964
00:34:35,061 --> 00:34:36,576
they drove down. They picked me up.

965
00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:39,789
And they took me home, and that was

966
00:34:39,789 --> 00:34:41,010
the first time

967
00:34:41,309 --> 00:34:44,190
that I was physically shaking. I remember my

968
00:34:44,190 --> 00:34:45,630
mom gave me a, you know, a cup

969
00:34:45,630 --> 00:34:47,958
of tea, to hold, and I couldn't hold

970
00:34:47,958 --> 00:34:49,871
it, and she was spoon feeding me and

971
00:34:49,871 --> 00:34:53,617
everything. And and they they were asking me

972
00:34:53,617 --> 00:34:54,987
about it. They were asked me how much

973
00:34:55,067 --> 00:34:58,018
I was drinking, and my dad was was

974
00:34:58,018 --> 00:35:00,730
reading the book, and he didn't really look

975
00:35:00,730 --> 00:35:01,049
at me.

976
00:35:01,767 --> 00:35:04,375
But my mom was very gentle and she

977
00:35:04,574 --> 00:35:05,933
she had me sort of lay on her

978
00:35:05,933 --> 00:35:08,010
chest, and she was str my hair, and

979
00:35:08,010 --> 00:35:10,088
she was very very gentle with me, but

980
00:35:10,248 --> 00:35:11,926
I was in such a bad way. My

981
00:35:11,926 --> 00:35:13,045
withdrawals were so bad.

982
00:35:13,778 --> 00:35:15,851
And I remember having to wash my beds

983
00:35:15,851 --> 00:35:17,606
sheets, you know, for, like, 3 or 4

984
00:35:17,606 --> 00:35:20,179
days. And then it was the following year

985
00:35:20,237 --> 00:35:21,534
when I was sober

986
00:35:21,991 --> 00:35:23,922
that We went out for lunch for Christmas,

987
00:35:24,082 --> 00:35:25,041
and my dad said,

988
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,518
right. What are we all drinking? He said,

989
00:35:27,598 --> 00:35:28,498
helen, are we having

990
00:35:28,876 --> 00:35:30,235
wine, and I said,

991
00:35:30,885 --> 00:35:31,203
no,

992
00:35:31,838 --> 00:35:33,742
dad I don't drink anymore, and he said,

993
00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:37,074
don't you? Why not? I know I was

994
00:35:37,074 --> 00:35:39,905
shocked. And I... And I... And I

995
00:35:40,364 --> 00:35:41,485
I couldn't quite fathom.

996
00:35:41,885 --> 00:35:44,144
How, he couldn't remember

997
00:35:44,765 --> 00:35:47,094
what... Had been like, you know, that image

998
00:35:47,094 --> 00:35:48,869
of me. And I was completely

999
00:35:49,247 --> 00:35:51,400
unrecognizable. I mean, I was I was purple.

1000
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,272
My eyes were blood shot. My skin was

1001
00:35:54,272 --> 00:35:54,591
crusty.

1002
00:35:55,243 --> 00:35:56,672
Was about 3 or 4 sizes bigger than

1003
00:35:56,752 --> 00:35:58,896
I am now. I was just a mess,

1004
00:35:59,054 --> 00:36:01,199
and he couldn't understand why I I wasn't

1005
00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:03,342
drinking. And and and then he would do

1006
00:36:03,342 --> 00:36:05,746
you tell me about this. I Christmas cake

1007
00:36:05,746 --> 00:36:06,864
that he had made, and he said, oh,

1008
00:36:07,023 --> 00:36:08,859
you must have some. You, I'll send some

1009
00:36:08,859 --> 00:36:10,296
down to you. And and I said, yeah,

1010
00:36:10,376 --> 00:36:11,892
but dad, does it does it have alcohol?

1011
00:36:12,052 --> 00:36:13,342
And he said, oh, yes, lots of it,

1012
00:36:13,422 --> 00:36:14,771
and Said well then dad, I don't I

1013
00:36:14,771 --> 00:36:16,438
don't want to any... But it's Christmas cake,

1014
00:36:16,597 --> 00:36:18,423
You know, when you're not an alcoholic, it's

1015
00:36:18,423 --> 00:36:20,860
difficult to understand. But I know personally of,

1016
00:36:21,217 --> 00:36:22,729
I can never safely pick up a drink.

1017
00:36:22,967 --> 00:36:24,479
That's that's right. And it... It's a frame

1018
00:36:24,479 --> 00:36:26,490
of mind that you really don't get

1019
00:36:26,865 --> 00:36:29,686
until you're... Off either in the rooms or

1020
00:36:29,742 --> 00:36:32,284
are are really truly understanding of the people

1021
00:36:32,284 --> 00:36:34,827
who are in the rooms. And Yeah. They

1022
00:36:34,827 --> 00:36:36,360
don't understand alcoholism

1023
00:36:36,828 --> 00:36:38,260
they may not think it's a very big

1024
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:40,011
deal for you to take a drink or

1025
00:36:40,011 --> 00:36:42,023
to eat a piece of brandy soaked

1026
00:36:42,477 --> 00:36:44,546
fruit cake or whatever it is that your

1027
00:36:44,546 --> 00:36:46,791
dad was making, but that slips off your

1028
00:36:46,791 --> 00:36:49,580
mind very, very quickly. Don't you think? Absolutely.

1029
00:36:49,819 --> 00:36:51,253
I mean, I just I don't play with

1030
00:36:51,253 --> 00:36:53,326
fire at all all. I mean, when I'm...

1031
00:36:53,659 --> 00:36:55,896
Know, I I'm very happy now to, you

1032
00:36:55,896 --> 00:36:57,435
know, go out to

1033
00:36:58,053 --> 00:37:00,370
birthdays and parties and and whatever it is.

1034
00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:03,496
You but I I don't like really being

1035
00:37:03,496 --> 00:37:06,209
in big crowds anymore around people who are

1036
00:37:06,209 --> 00:37:08,218
drinking and getting more and more drunk. You

1037
00:37:08,218 --> 00:37:10,205
know, I always have a get clause, you

1038
00:37:10,205 --> 00:37:12,590
know? And when I'm with my family, and

1039
00:37:12,590 --> 00:37:14,497
there is a lot of alcohol around and

1040
00:37:14,497 --> 00:37:16,484
now everybody in my family knows that I'm

1041
00:37:16,484 --> 00:37:16,882
in Aa.

1042
00:37:17,532 --> 00:37:19,360
But like every time there is an event

1043
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,666
like Christmas, I will always put a little

1044
00:37:21,666 --> 00:37:23,812
colorful ribbon around my glass so that I

1045
00:37:23,812 --> 00:37:25,242
know that it's mine and everybody else knows

1046
00:37:25,242 --> 00:37:27,488
that it's mine and you know, nothing goes

1047
00:37:27,488 --> 00:37:29,666
in that blast. I just... I'm very careful

1048
00:37:29,725 --> 00:37:31,403
about what I put into my system. You

1049
00:37:31,403 --> 00:37:33,161
know, when I'm when I'm out at a

1050
00:37:33,161 --> 00:37:33,401
restaurant,

1051
00:37:34,453 --> 00:37:37,070
I will always ask if there's any alcohol

1052
00:37:37,070 --> 00:37:39,052
in anything that I've ordered. And even then

1053
00:37:39,052 --> 00:37:41,034
you have to be pretty careful. My wife

1054
00:37:41,034 --> 00:37:43,197
has always been the taste. Tester for me.

1055
00:37:43,675 --> 00:37:45,589
Right. Every now and then, you know, especially

1056
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:46,467
around the holidays.

1057
00:37:46,865 --> 00:37:49,817
Yeah. The most inn little treats might be

1058
00:37:49,817 --> 00:37:52,542
rum balls or they might brandy so or

1059
00:37:52,542 --> 00:37:55,267
they may be, maybe they were cooked with

1060
00:37:55,324 --> 00:37:57,946
alcohol. You know, it's it's just playing with

1061
00:37:57,946 --> 00:38:00,330
it. And I, I can't afford that kind

1062
00:38:00,330 --> 00:38:00,989
of thinking

1063
00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:03,619
Yeah. I can't afford that either, and my

1064
00:38:03,619 --> 00:38:06,099
boyfriend's is saying, he'll do little taste as

1065
00:38:06,099 --> 00:38:07,859
well to make sure and and

1066
00:38:08,914 --> 00:38:10,831
but, you know, when I'm in restaurant, if

1067
00:38:10,831 --> 00:38:13,628
they say are you any allergies, I will

1068
00:38:13,628 --> 00:38:15,626
say I'm highly allergic to alcohol. And when

1069
00:38:15,626 --> 00:38:16,365
you say

1070
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:18,752
but you're highly allergic to something.

1071
00:38:19,151 --> 00:38:20,746
Then they'll go back and check with the

1072
00:38:20,746 --> 00:38:23,456
chef, You know, make sure, you know? And

1073
00:38:23,456 --> 00:38:25,291
it's always the chocolate brownie ease. Why do

1074
00:38:25,291 --> 00:38:27,219
they happen? For alcohol in the chocolate brownie

1075
00:38:27,219 --> 00:38:29,611
is it just totally ruins them, but... Yeah.

1076
00:38:31,126 --> 00:38:33,677
Because that's to put alcohol and everything. That's

1077
00:38:33,677 --> 00:38:34,315
probably why.

1078
00:38:34,889 --> 00:38:37,041
Things it sounds to me had gotten pretty

1079
00:38:37,041 --> 00:38:39,274
much out of control in between the time

1080
00:38:39,274 --> 00:38:40,492
you first went

1081
00:38:40,949 --> 00:38:42,963
into Aa in 20 19.

1082
00:38:43,834 --> 00:38:45,211
Yes. And your

1083
00:38:45,588 --> 00:38:49,098
sobriety date, your current sobriety date. Can you

1084
00:38:49,098 --> 00:38:51,411
walk us through those that period of time,

1085
00:38:51,969 --> 00:38:53,246
I guess it was less than a year

1086
00:38:53,246 --> 00:38:54,455
or year and a half.

1087
00:38:55,172 --> 00:38:57,003
2... Yeah. 2 year... It took me 2

1088
00:38:57,003 --> 00:38:58,515
years and 20 days. Okay.

1089
00:38:59,390 --> 00:39:03,370
And I remember... So before Covid hit. So,

1090
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,007
I was going to a lot of in

1091
00:39:06,007 --> 00:39:07,063
person meetings.

1092
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:10,616
And then when Covid hit,

1093
00:39:12,380 --> 00:39:15,483
I really plummeted. I really, really plummeted.

1094
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,630
And in what way did you plummet it?

1095
00:39:18,362 --> 00:39:21,225
Drinking wise and and and using and I

1096
00:39:21,225 --> 00:39:23,532
would have I would have alcohol delivered to

1097
00:39:23,532 --> 00:39:24,169
the door.

1098
00:39:24,885 --> 00:39:26,101
What was lacking?

1099
00:39:27,130 --> 00:39:29,849
From your first exposure to Aa that made

1100
00:39:29,849 --> 00:39:31,710
it possible or made it

1101
00:39:32,489 --> 00:39:34,250
easy for you to pick up that drink.

1102
00:39:34,730 --> 00:39:37,060
I didn't want it enough. I came into

1103
00:39:37,060 --> 00:39:39,367
our alcoholic anonymous in 20 19,

1104
00:39:39,844 --> 00:39:41,435
thinking that, you know, I could go to

1105
00:39:41,435 --> 00:39:43,048
a few meetings, and

1106
00:39:43,438 --> 00:39:45,660
you know, I I would just be taught

1107
00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:47,406
really how to drink like a normal person,

1108
00:39:47,485 --> 00:39:49,391
and I just wanted the consequences to stop,

1109
00:39:49,549 --> 00:39:51,952
and and I remember seeing all the scrolls

1110
00:39:51,952 --> 00:39:54,266
on the walls and seeing the steps. And

1111
00:39:54,347 --> 00:39:55,863
I just... You know, I just thought that

1112
00:39:55,863 --> 00:39:57,699
it just looked like too much work, you

1113
00:39:57,699 --> 00:39:59,949
know? And I wasn't I wasn't willing to

1114
00:39:59,949 --> 00:40:02,023
put the work in, and and I saw

1115
00:40:02,023 --> 00:40:03,938
the word god, and I just kind of

1116
00:40:03,938 --> 00:40:06,171
just wanted to run away, and and I

1117
00:40:06,251 --> 00:40:07,544
I saw the step and I thought that

1118
00:40:07,544 --> 00:40:08,662
most of them didn't even apply to me,

1119
00:40:08,822 --> 00:40:09,780
and I just thought I could just come

1120
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:11,618
to some meetings. You know, I didn't want

1121
00:40:11,618 --> 00:40:13,615
it enough. I didn't I didn't have that

1122
00:40:13,615 --> 00:40:14,095
willingness.

1123
00:40:14,588 --> 00:40:17,315
To go to any lengths. I was willing

1124
00:40:17,372 --> 00:40:19,043
to go to any lengths to get to

1125
00:40:19,043 --> 00:40:20,872
get a drink. Right? And to get a

1126
00:40:20,872 --> 00:40:23,525
drug but but I wasn't willing at that

1127
00:40:23,525 --> 00:40:25,364
point to go to any lengths. And people

1128
00:40:25,364 --> 00:40:27,445
would give me their phone numbers, and and

1129
00:40:27,605 --> 00:40:29,284
I was handing out my phone number to

1130
00:40:29,284 --> 00:40:31,938
people, and I... All these numbers were ringing

1131
00:40:31,938 --> 00:40:33,855
me that I didn't recognize, and I didn't

1132
00:40:33,855 --> 00:40:36,113
wanna pick up the phone, you know, to

1133
00:40:36,253 --> 00:40:36,572
anybody,

1134
00:40:37,371 --> 00:40:39,221
because I didn't like the quest and, you

1135
00:40:39,221 --> 00:40:40,253
know, how are you?

1136
00:40:41,047 --> 00:40:42,715
Because I never knew how to answer that

1137
00:40:42,715 --> 00:40:45,813
because I'd had always numb every single feeling

1138
00:40:45,813 --> 00:40:48,329
and emotion that I had with alcohol, Jin

1139
00:40:48,449 --> 00:40:50,596
And I didn't like the the question, you

1140
00:40:50,596 --> 00:40:52,027
know, how long have you been sober now,

1141
00:40:52,186 --> 00:40:54,254
you know, because I I wasn't. I was

1142
00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:57,934
still drinking. And I I... Kept ending up

1143
00:40:57,934 --> 00:40:58,835
in hospital.

1144
00:40:59,135 --> 00:41:01,394
And I was always on a drip, and

1145
00:41:01,454 --> 00:41:02,735
that would always make me feel a lot

1146
00:41:02,735 --> 00:41:04,494
better and that the doctors would always say

1147
00:41:04,494 --> 00:41:06,844
to me you know, you're drink... You're drinking

1148
00:41:07,220 --> 00:41:08,176
dangerous amounts,

1149
00:41:09,132 --> 00:41:11,442
try and reduce, you know, but don't stop

1150
00:41:11,442 --> 00:41:13,114
drinking. And when you tell an alcoholic to

1151
00:41:13,114 --> 00:41:13,911
not stop drinking,

1152
00:41:14,324 --> 00:41:16,318
you know, that's like gold dust. Right? So

1153
00:41:16,717 --> 00:41:19,190
I carried on drinking, And but I was

1154
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:21,822
never able to reduce my drinking, and then

1155
00:41:21,822 --> 00:41:23,677
eventually, I went into hospital

1156
00:41:24,468 --> 00:41:26,619
and I said to the doctors, I need

1157
00:41:26,619 --> 00:41:28,769
more than just medication. I need to speak

1158
00:41:28,769 --> 00:41:29,407
to somebody.

1159
00:41:29,805 --> 00:41:30,601
They brought down,

1160
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,150
a guy from the alcohol department,

1161
00:41:33,965 --> 00:41:35,485
his name's is Charlie, and he won't mind

1162
00:41:35,485 --> 00:41:36,125
saying his name.

1163
00:41:37,164 --> 00:41:39,724
And he sat with me, and I was

1164
00:41:39,724 --> 00:41:42,179
pouring my heart out, and I was just

1165
00:41:42,859 --> 00:41:44,880
crying and sobbing, and

1166
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:47,739
and he explained that he's in recovery himself,

1167
00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:50,859
and Mh. He we were just sharing stories

1168
00:41:50,859 --> 00:41:53,668
and relating and and it was the first

1169
00:41:53,668 --> 00:41:55,104
time that I had any sense of hope.

1170
00:41:55,343 --> 00:41:56,939
Any sense of hope at all, and he

1171
00:41:56,939 --> 00:41:59,028
was so gentle with me, and I remember

1172
00:41:59,028 --> 00:42:01,024
saying to him, am I gonna die, and

1173
00:42:01,024 --> 00:42:02,381
he said to me not on my watch.

1174
00:42:03,259 --> 00:42:04,855
And he never gave up on me, and

1175
00:42:04,855 --> 00:42:06,213
we're still very good friends to this day.

1176
00:42:06,452 --> 00:42:09,025
And he told me that during lockdown, Aa

1177
00:42:09,025 --> 00:42:10,065
had moved on to Zoom.

1178
00:42:10,625 --> 00:42:12,005
And so when

1179
00:42:12,625 --> 00:42:14,085
I was released from hospital,

1180
00:42:14,385 --> 00:42:16,065
I came home, and I woke up the

1181
00:42:16,065 --> 00:42:16,885
next morning

1182
00:42:17,278 --> 00:42:19,108
and I had a text message from Charlie,

1183
00:42:19,505 --> 00:42:20,938
and he said, hi, Helen. It's Charlie from

1184
00:42:20,938 --> 00:42:21,574
the hospital.

1185
00:42:21,972 --> 00:42:24,614
I hope you're okay, and as promised, here

1186
00:42:24,614 --> 00:42:26,692
is the link for all the Aa meetings

1187
00:42:26,692 --> 00:42:29,808
on Zoom. And I remember looking at this

1188
00:42:29,808 --> 00:42:31,407
message, and I was thinking,

1189
00:42:31,886 --> 00:42:34,847
oh my god, like, Normally when you get

1190
00:42:34,847 --> 00:42:36,512
sent away from hospital, they just sort of

1191
00:42:36,512 --> 00:42:38,019
wish you all the best. And here was

1192
00:42:38,019 --> 00:42:39,313
somebody who was genuinely

1193
00:42:39,685 --> 00:42:41,689
wants to help me. And

1194
00:42:42,167 --> 00:42:44,557
and so I got into Aa on Zoom.

1195
00:42:45,275 --> 00:42:47,027
I went to a meeting and he was

1196
00:42:47,027 --> 00:42:47,346
there,

1197
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,559
And from then, I just started going to

1198
00:42:50,559 --> 00:42:51,380
all of these

1199
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,480
online meetings, you know? But it wasn't consistent.

1200
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,639
I wasn't every day, you know? But I

1201
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:58,809
was... Still coming back. That was the 1

1202
00:42:58,809 --> 00:42:59,768
thing that I was doing.

1203
00:43:01,045 --> 00:43:02,800
There was a meeting that I that I

1204
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,409
liked, and it it's now my home group

1205
00:43:05,529 --> 00:43:07,523
but III wasn't going every single day, but

1206
00:43:07,603 --> 00:43:09,517
I was seeing all the same people, you

1207
00:43:09,517 --> 00:43:09,756
know,

1208
00:43:10,634 --> 00:43:12,787
and... But it still took me from the

1209
00:43:12,787 --> 00:43:14,941
the minute that I started coming into Zoom.

1210
00:43:15,180 --> 00:43:17,033
It's still took me another year. You know?

1211
00:43:17,352 --> 00:43:18,471
I was drinking every day, but I was

1212
00:43:18,471 --> 00:43:19,690
having these big binge

1213
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:21,827
of, you know, a liter of whiskey, a

1214
00:43:21,827 --> 00:43:23,585
few bottles of wine every single day.

1215
00:43:24,717 --> 00:43:26,793
And eventually... And I was still going into

1216
00:43:26,793 --> 00:43:28,469
hospital, and then eventually,

1217
00:43:29,027 --> 00:43:31,103
I just thought I just can't do this

1218
00:43:31,103 --> 00:43:33,672
anymore. I was done. I was given that

1219
00:43:33,672 --> 00:43:36,545
gift of desperation, and, you know, and I

1220
00:43:36,545 --> 00:43:38,061
knew that there was only 1 place that

1221
00:43:38,141 --> 00:43:39,737
I needed to be. You know, my therapist

1222
00:43:39,737 --> 00:43:41,585
hadn't got me sober. Hospital hadn't got me

1223
00:43:41,585 --> 00:43:43,975
sober even though I'm incredibly grateful Mh that

1224
00:43:44,055 --> 00:43:46,764
I met Charlie, you know, that there was

1225
00:43:46,764 --> 00:43:48,197
just 1 place that I needed to be,

1226
00:43:48,436 --> 00:43:50,605
And I came back into alcoholic. Synonymous.

1227
00:43:51,164 --> 00:43:52,844
And when you were hospitalized, what were you

1228
00:43:52,844 --> 00:43:53,344
hospitalized

1229
00:43:53,644 --> 00:43:53,885
for?

1230
00:43:55,005 --> 00:43:57,964
For alcoholic poisoning. Yeah. And it was really

1231
00:43:57,964 --> 00:43:59,974
only in the last few times that I

1232
00:43:59,974 --> 00:44:02,384
was there that that my liver

1233
00:44:03,317 --> 00:44:05,647
had gone, you know, off the roof. And

1234
00:44:05,943 --> 00:44:08,432
because before that, like, my blood

1235
00:44:08,742 --> 00:44:10,966
my blood count were always kind of under

1236
00:44:10,966 --> 00:44:12,633
the level or they were always regarded as,

1237
00:44:12,792 --> 00:44:15,889
you know, okay. Yeah. And so that in

1238
00:44:15,889 --> 00:44:16,286
itself,

1239
00:44:16,858 --> 00:44:20,120
allowed me to carry on drinking. In my

1240
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:21,951
head, I was thinking alright. Well then I'm

1241
00:44:21,951 --> 00:44:23,860
not really that bad. So then I would

1242
00:44:23,860 --> 00:44:24,989
just carry on drinking,

1243
00:44:25,387 --> 00:44:27,614
but it did scare me when my liver,

1244
00:44:28,091 --> 00:44:30,159
went off the rocket. I was always told,

1245
00:44:30,318 --> 00:44:32,722
you know, that Jaeger mae. I don't know

1246
00:44:32,722 --> 00:44:34,157
if you have it over there in America.

1247
00:44:34,316 --> 00:44:37,184
Mh. Right. So Jaeger mae. I was told

1248
00:44:37,184 --> 00:44:37,684
has

1249
00:44:38,140 --> 00:44:41,256
digest of ingredients in, special digestive ingredients in.

1250
00:44:41,494 --> 00:44:43,800
Right? So which might be true. Right? If

1251
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,628
you have, like, a teaspoon of it or

1252
00:44:45,628 --> 00:44:47,945
something of and, you know, I had a

1253
00:44:47,945 --> 00:44:50,245
really bad stomach cake I think because you

1254
00:44:50,245 --> 00:44:51,911
know, I was drinking too much. And so

1255
00:44:52,070 --> 00:44:54,313
I decided to get myself. A liter of

1256
00:44:54,393 --> 00:44:56,310
Y mae, and I made my way through

1257
00:44:56,310 --> 00:44:58,387
it. I drank liter, and then I, I

1258
00:44:58,387 --> 00:45:00,599
couldn't understand why I was throwing up and

1259
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,620
you know why why it was hurting even

1260
00:45:02,620 --> 00:45:04,126
more because it was meant to be good

1261
00:45:04,126 --> 00:45:06,027
for my stomach. So then I I had

1262
00:45:06,027 --> 00:45:09,856
a second liter. Right? Of Yoga my and

1263
00:45:10,175 --> 00:45:11,928
and then ended up in a hospital, and,

1264
00:45:12,246 --> 00:45:13,760
I mean, I was just throwing. I just

1265
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,767
couldn't keep anything down. And This was the

1266
00:45:15,767 --> 00:45:17,920
time that I decided not to tell Charlie

1267
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,914
that I was in hospital and thinking that,

1268
00:45:19,994 --> 00:45:21,110
you know, I I didn't wanna let him

1269
00:45:21,110 --> 00:45:23,342
down, You know, And I came home, and

1270
00:45:23,342 --> 00:45:25,272
I woke up the next... Or I think

1271
00:45:25,272 --> 00:45:26,708
it was probably 2 days later when they

1272
00:45:26,708 --> 00:45:28,942
let me out. And I I woke up

1273
00:45:28,942 --> 00:45:30,697
and there were 2 missed calls from Charlie,

1274
00:45:31,017 --> 00:45:33,901
and I was hacked man he no? You

1275
00:45:33,901 --> 00:45:35,653
know, and I... And he said, well, it's

1276
00:45:35,653 --> 00:45:37,804
my job to know who's come in for

1277
00:45:37,804 --> 00:45:38,521
alcoholic poisoning,

1278
00:45:39,318 --> 00:45:40,991
but they they may go back the next

1279
00:45:40,991 --> 00:45:43,797
week. To have further blood tests to see

1280
00:45:43,797 --> 00:45:44,834
about my liver. Mh.

1281
00:45:45,472 --> 00:45:47,226
Unfortunately, you know, it had it had gone

1282
00:45:47,226 --> 00:45:49,380
down and so Charlie and I sat and

1283
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:50,736
had a cup of coffee. And

1284
00:45:51,389 --> 00:45:52,906
And I just... I remember saying to him,

1285
00:45:53,066 --> 00:45:55,380
you know, I'm really trying. I'm really, really

1286
00:45:55,380 --> 00:45:57,137
trying, and he said he he would say

1287
00:45:57,137 --> 00:45:59,452
to me, don't try. Just do.

1288
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:02,173
And he said trying means all you're doing

1289
00:46:02,173 --> 00:46:04,080
is trying your best to keep drinking rather

1290
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,304
than doing what you can to stay in

1291
00:46:06,304 --> 00:46:06,702
recovery.

1292
00:46:07,337 --> 00:46:09,657
He said, don't try just do. Yeah. It

1293
00:46:09,657 --> 00:46:11,009
makes a lot of sense and it's it's

1294
00:46:11,009 --> 00:46:12,601
the thing that that we need to hear.

1295
00:46:13,078 --> 00:46:14,056
You're essentially

1296
00:46:14,670 --> 00:46:17,057
going to meetings. You have the desire to

1297
00:46:17,057 --> 00:46:19,065
stop although you're not. Stopping?

1298
00:46:19,465 --> 00:46:21,224
Yeah. During that 1 year period.

1299
00:46:22,105 --> 00:46:24,344
When you were called on in meetings, I'm

1300
00:46:24,344 --> 00:46:24,844
curious

1301
00:46:25,305 --> 00:46:26,285
what were you

1302
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:27,239
saying,

1303
00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:29,980
though you knew that you were drinking, maybe

1304
00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:32,360
everybody else also knew. What sort of things

1305
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,440
were you talking about to get the onus

1306
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,375
off of you or were you just out

1307
00:46:36,375 --> 00:46:38,934
and out lying about not drinking? Well, this

1308
00:46:38,934 --> 00:46:40,295
is an interesting 1 when I've been trying

1309
00:46:40,295 --> 00:46:43,195
to remember this myself. I don't remember.

1310
00:46:43,909 --> 00:46:44,409
People

1311
00:46:44,866 --> 00:46:47,578
sharing their day counts. Now, whether or not

1312
00:46:47,578 --> 00:46:49,434
that was because I came into

1313
00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:52,762
meetings late. I don't know, and I don't

1314
00:46:52,762 --> 00:46:53,695
really remember

1315
00:46:54,534 --> 00:46:56,051
I definitely remember sharing,

1316
00:46:56,770 --> 00:46:59,487
and I just remember people saying, you know,

1317
00:46:59,646 --> 00:47:02,131
just keep coming back. And I didn't know

1318
00:47:02,131 --> 00:47:04,990
that they knew that I was drunk. I

1319
00:47:04,990 --> 00:47:06,658
thought that I was being quite, you know,

1320
00:47:07,135 --> 00:47:07,929
clever about it.

1321
00:47:08,882 --> 00:47:10,017
And I remember,

1322
00:47:10,962 --> 00:47:13,503
coming into the the meeting that is now

1323
00:47:13,503 --> 00:47:16,045
my home group, and there's a breakout room

1324
00:47:16,045 --> 00:47:16,601
at the end,

1325
00:47:17,554 --> 00:47:18,904
a women's breakout room and there's a mental

1326
00:47:18,904 --> 00:47:20,230
as well. And I was in the breakout

1327
00:47:20,349 --> 00:47:21,964
room and my now sponsor

1328
00:47:23,377 --> 00:47:25,608
said to me. Hey, Helen, you know, it's

1329
00:47:25,608 --> 00:47:27,223
really good to see you and

1330
00:47:27,694 --> 00:47:29,289
you know, like just how how long and

1331
00:47:29,369 --> 00:47:31,761
I was quite energetic and she said, you

1332
00:47:31,761 --> 00:47:33,117
know, how long have you've been... How long

1333
00:47:33,117 --> 00:47:34,973
have you've been sober now. And

1334
00:47:35,350 --> 00:47:35,908
and I was like,

1335
00:47:38,551 --> 00:47:40,540
I don't know. Maybe like a month and

1336
00:47:40,699 --> 00:47:42,051
I had, like, a gin and tonic in

1337
00:47:42,051 --> 00:47:45,193
my hand and, you know, I remember being

1338
00:47:45,252 --> 00:47:47,647
asked to read the pre am, and I

1339
00:47:47,647 --> 00:47:48,945
asked to do readings,

1340
00:47:50,281 --> 00:47:52,596
but I... It I think it was really

1341
00:47:52,596 --> 00:47:53,075
only.

1342
00:47:53,648 --> 00:47:55,878
In the in person meetings that I I

1343
00:47:55,878 --> 00:47:56,753
was sharing.

1344
00:47:57,151 --> 00:47:59,460
I don't really remember it's all very fuzzy,

1345
00:47:59,619 --> 00:48:01,664
but I don't really remember sharing so much

1346
00:48:02,181 --> 00:48:03,610
and I definitely don't think I did a

1347
00:48:03,610 --> 00:48:05,914
day count because I had no days. Well,

1348
00:48:06,231 --> 00:48:07,684
Zoom certainly made it possible

1349
00:48:08,296 --> 00:48:09,646
and still does because there are a lot

1350
00:48:09,646 --> 00:48:11,886
of Zoom meetings still going on. Zoom made

1351
00:48:11,886 --> 00:48:13,636
it possible for people to be able to

1352
00:48:13,636 --> 00:48:14,989
be doing all kinds of things,

1353
00:48:15,943 --> 00:48:18,011
while it looks like they're okay on Zoom.

1354
00:48:18,744 --> 00:48:20,344
Do you think you could have gotten away

1355
00:48:20,344 --> 00:48:22,025
with what you were doing? Had you been

1356
00:48:22,025 --> 00:48:23,944
going to live meetings during that year?

1357
00:48:24,585 --> 00:48:24,905
Well,

1358
00:48:25,464 --> 00:48:26,905
I mean, I remember...

1359
00:48:27,717 --> 00:48:29,406
1 of the in person meetings

1360
00:48:29,937 --> 00:48:31,706
that I went to, and

1361
00:48:32,237 --> 00:48:34,615
I was drinking in the toilet beforehand, and

1362
00:48:34,615 --> 00:48:36,222
then there was I think it was a

1363
00:48:36,222 --> 00:48:37,659
19 minute meeting, and then there was a

1364
00:48:37,659 --> 00:48:38,856
little break and I would go to the

1365
00:48:38,856 --> 00:48:40,771
toilet, and I would drink and I mean,

1366
00:48:40,931 --> 00:48:42,527
people... And I remember going to a meeting

1367
00:48:42,527 --> 00:48:43,165
and a lady.

1368
00:48:43,659 --> 00:48:45,170
Saying to me, you know, have you had

1369
00:48:45,170 --> 00:48:47,159
a drink today? And I and I I

1370
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:48,749
kind of was a little bit shocked that

1371
00:48:48,749 --> 00:48:50,913
she'd said that, but I just said I

1372
00:48:50,913 --> 00:48:52,586
said, yes. And then she said, yeah, I

1373
00:48:52,586 --> 00:48:55,055
can smell it. I always thought, wow. And

1374
00:48:55,055 --> 00:48:56,728
then I didn't like people getting too close

1375
00:48:56,728 --> 00:48:56,967
to me.

1376
00:48:57,858 --> 00:48:58,835
I was definitely

1377
00:48:59,527 --> 00:49:01,936
being in the comfort of my own home

1378
00:49:02,549 --> 00:49:05,173
during lockdown, especially when things got really, really

1379
00:49:05,173 --> 00:49:07,732
bad. I still didn't have that willingness to

1380
00:49:07,732 --> 00:49:09,958
go out, you know, had there been in

1381
00:49:09,958 --> 00:49:11,787
person meetings. I wouldn't have really had that

1382
00:49:11,787 --> 00:49:14,093
willingness and that energy to go out to

1383
00:49:14,093 --> 00:49:15,047
to to meetings.

1384
00:49:15,938 --> 00:49:18,331
I definitely was doing everything on Zoom. But

1385
00:49:18,331 --> 00:49:20,005
then having said that Zoom was the thing

1386
00:49:20,005 --> 00:49:22,159
that saved my life. Yeah. It it's it's

1387
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:24,153
interesting how it cuts both ways for you

1388
00:49:24,153 --> 00:49:26,244
and your story that It was the thing

1389
00:49:26,244 --> 00:49:28,561
that allowed you to hide out. But then

1390
00:49:28,561 --> 00:49:31,358
again, the third tradition, the only requirement for

1391
00:49:31,358 --> 00:49:33,435
membership is a desire to stop drinking.

1392
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:35,609
1 of the earliest synergies I did was

1393
00:49:35,609 --> 00:49:37,369
with a woman who was drinking for 5

1394
00:49:37,369 --> 00:49:37,690
years,

1395
00:49:38,730 --> 00:49:40,969
while she was going to Aa meetings almost

1396
00:49:40,969 --> 00:49:41,289
daily,

1397
00:49:41,783 --> 00:49:44,730
And then finally, she stopped, but she satisfied

1398
00:49:44,730 --> 00:49:46,722
the requirement. She had the desire. She said,

1399
00:49:46,881 --> 00:49:49,510
I I always wanted to stop, but I

1400
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:50,385
just kept drinking.

1401
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,359
During this period of time, were you seeing

1402
00:49:53,359 --> 00:49:56,239
somebody during that 1 year period? So I

1403
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,619
was with my boyfriend,

1404
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:00,810
we've been together for 5 months. Before I

1405
00:50:00,810 --> 00:50:01,286
got sober.

1406
00:50:01,922 --> 00:50:04,145
Okay. So he saw he saw the behavior.

1407
00:50:04,304 --> 00:50:05,654
Did he take you to the hospital?

1408
00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:07,742
No. So interestingly,

1409
00:50:08,765 --> 00:50:10,351
because we didn't even live in the same

1410
00:50:10,351 --> 00:50:10,748
city.

1411
00:50:11,382 --> 00:50:13,547
I was quite I was quite careful

1412
00:50:14,237 --> 00:50:16,974
when I was around him, and he... Rarely

1413
00:50:17,275 --> 00:50:20,015
rarely saw me drink. He saw the after

1414
00:50:20,155 --> 00:50:22,474
effects because there were a couple of times

1415
00:50:22,474 --> 00:50:23,454
that we were

1416
00:50:24,328 --> 00:50:26,481
planning to go away, and I I would

1417
00:50:26,481 --> 00:50:27,997
cancel the holiday, and then I would re

1418
00:50:27,997 --> 00:50:29,193
book it, and then I would cancel the

1419
00:50:29,193 --> 00:50:31,506
holiday, and and then I would get there

1420
00:50:31,506 --> 00:50:34,473
and I just looked horrendous. You know, because

1421
00:50:34,553 --> 00:50:36,330
I was I was just so hung.

1422
00:50:37,746 --> 00:50:40,939
In my final binge, I remember being on

1423
00:50:40,939 --> 00:50:43,348
the phone to him, and he's... You said

1424
00:50:43,348 --> 00:50:43,827
to me,

1425
00:50:44,625 --> 00:50:46,242
is there something that you wanna

1426
00:50:46,700 --> 00:50:48,615
tell me, and he was so gentle with

1427
00:50:48,615 --> 00:50:50,291
me, and I said, yeah, I... I've been

1428
00:50:50,291 --> 00:50:50,690
drinking,

1429
00:50:51,662 --> 00:50:53,176
And I think I think I told him

1430
00:50:53,176 --> 00:50:55,407
that I was an alcoholic after about a

1431
00:50:55,407 --> 00:50:56,841
couple of months. Mh.

1432
00:50:57,319 --> 00:50:59,487
And and in this... Final binge, you know,

1433
00:50:59,726 --> 00:51:01,721
he he was living in Birmingham at the

1434
00:51:01,721 --> 00:51:04,056
time. And and he came down to London

1435
00:51:04,194 --> 00:51:05,572
and he knew

1436
00:51:06,364 --> 00:51:08,280
that I had been drinking. He kind of

1437
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:09,897
had a sense of what he was coming

1438
00:51:09,956 --> 00:51:10,275
too,

1439
00:51:10,834 --> 00:51:12,590
but I don't think he was really prepared

1440
00:51:12,590 --> 00:51:14,665
for it. I mean, my flat was a

1441
00:51:14,665 --> 00:51:16,668
mess. And I just looked horrendous,

1442
00:51:17,304 --> 00:51:19,450
and he walked in and he just... He

1443
00:51:19,450 --> 00:51:21,278
sat next to me, and he just took

1444
00:51:21,278 --> 00:51:22,414
my hand and

1445
00:51:22,724 --> 00:51:24,318
You know, he said is there... Is there

1446
00:51:24,318 --> 00:51:26,471
any more alcohol in the house, and I

1447
00:51:26,471 --> 00:51:27,827
said, yeah. There's half a bottle of wine

1448
00:51:27,827 --> 00:51:28,544
on the balcony.

1449
00:51:29,102 --> 00:51:30,777
And he and he just... He said, okay.

1450
00:51:31,016 --> 00:51:32,783
I'm just... I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this

1451
00:51:32,783 --> 00:51:35,115
away. Okay? And it was the first time

1452
00:51:35,332 --> 00:51:38,278
that I was willing and prepared to have

1453
00:51:38,278 --> 00:51:39,871
alcohol throwing down the sink because I was

1454
00:51:39,871 --> 00:51:42,507
done. I was absolutely done. You know, I

1455
00:51:42,507 --> 00:51:45,206
hadn't haven't showered for about 2 weeks or

1456
00:51:45,206 --> 00:51:46,634
cleans my teeth. I didn't do those kind

1457
00:51:46,634 --> 00:51:48,396
of things and I was drinking. And my

1458
00:51:48,396 --> 00:51:49,826
hair had been up in this really kind

1459
00:51:49,826 --> 00:51:51,972
of messy bun, and, you know, it was

1460
00:51:51,972 --> 00:51:55,094
so glued together with alcoholic sweat that

1461
00:51:55,564 --> 00:51:57,319
I couldn't get it out, and so he

1462
00:51:57,319 --> 00:51:59,473
had to physically cut this massive chunk out

1463
00:51:59,473 --> 00:52:01,866
of my hair. I couldn't stand up. He

1464
00:52:01,866 --> 00:52:03,876
had to, like, shower me in the... I

1465
00:52:04,036 --> 00:52:05,313
I was sitting in the bath, and he

1466
00:52:05,313 --> 00:52:07,388
was showering me and, you know, and for

1467
00:52:07,388 --> 00:52:10,261
the next like, 3 or so days. I

1468
00:52:10,261 --> 00:52:13,612
was just throwing up dry he, shaking, all

1469
00:52:13,612 --> 00:52:15,754
of the above and and he kept saying

1470
00:52:15,754 --> 00:52:17,103
to me, you know, do you think that

1471
00:52:17,103 --> 00:52:19,007
you should go to hospital and I was

1472
00:52:19,007 --> 00:52:21,089
right I'm I'm just gonna ride these out.

1473
00:52:21,486 --> 00:52:22,997
You know, I just wanna ride them out

1474
00:52:22,997 --> 00:52:24,906
and I... And you know, for a very

1475
00:52:24,906 --> 00:52:27,530
long time, I was quite ashamed that he

1476
00:52:27,530 --> 00:52:29,692
had seen me that way. But at actually

1477
00:52:29,692 --> 00:52:31,760
looking back. I am so grateful that he

1478
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,590
did see me in that place because he

1479
00:52:33,590 --> 00:52:34,806
can see now

1480
00:52:35,181 --> 00:52:36,078
how bad

1481
00:52:36,627 --> 00:52:39,750
got, you know, and and and why

1482
00:52:40,204 --> 00:52:42,032
my recovery comes first.

1483
00:52:42,588 --> 00:52:44,510
Well, it takes a lot of trust. To

1484
00:52:44,510 --> 00:52:46,814
to let somebody help you like that, especially

1485
00:52:46,814 --> 00:52:47,926
when you're at the very end,

1486
00:52:48,641 --> 00:52:51,024
and, you know, the the fact that he

1487
00:52:51,024 --> 00:52:53,431
helped you when you needed help the most

1488
00:52:53,979 --> 00:52:55,995
I think says a lot about your willingness

1489
00:52:56,054 --> 00:52:57,889
to do what the very next thing was

1490
00:52:57,889 --> 00:53:00,761
you needed to do, like, stop and then

1491
00:53:00,761 --> 00:53:02,846
go back. To Aa. So all this was

1492
00:53:02,846 --> 00:53:05,335
going on prior to the nineteenth of September

1493
00:53:05,551 --> 00:53:06,664
of 20 21.

1494
00:53:07,062 --> 00:53:08,972
So that last drink you told us about

1495
00:53:08,972 --> 00:53:11,635
that little bit earlier to that period

1496
00:53:12,010 --> 00:53:13,998
was really rough until you came back in.

1497
00:53:14,237 --> 00:53:14,737
So

1498
00:53:15,351 --> 00:53:16,885
you've been sober now a thousand

1499
00:53:17,737 --> 00:53:18,771
in 18 days.

1500
00:53:19,424 --> 00:53:21,100
Tell me about that period of time and

1501
00:53:21,100 --> 00:53:22,638
what you've been doing to

1502
00:53:23,016 --> 00:53:25,491
strengthen and support your own program, but to

1503
00:53:25,491 --> 00:53:27,647
be of service and to work the steps

1504
00:53:27,647 --> 00:53:28,445
and so forth.

1505
00:53:29,334 --> 00:53:31,949
With regard to working the steps and having

1506
00:53:31,949 --> 00:53:34,644
a sponsor. When I got sober, and I

1507
00:53:34,644 --> 00:53:35,833
came into that meeting.

1508
00:53:36,324 --> 00:53:37,999
Which is now my home group, coming in

1509
00:53:37,999 --> 00:53:39,993
and saying, I'm Helen and I'm on day

1510
00:53:39,993 --> 00:53:41,929
1 and people were just so

1511
00:53:42,864 --> 00:53:45,359
so grateful to see me, see me alive

1512
00:53:45,496 --> 00:53:45,996
and

1513
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:49,103
you know, and just just seeing and hearing

1514
00:53:49,103 --> 00:53:51,018
people abroad that I was on day 1

1515
00:53:51,018 --> 00:53:53,413
because I'd never said that before. And I

1516
00:53:53,413 --> 00:53:55,263
remember being in the breakout room after words

1517
00:53:55,263 --> 00:53:57,008
with the with the women, and I remember

1518
00:53:57,008 --> 00:53:59,229
sitting on my couch, and I had this

1519
00:53:59,229 --> 00:54:00,284
like sudden

1520
00:54:00,657 --> 00:54:03,250
sense that I was gonna be okay words

1521
00:54:03,449 --> 00:54:05,279
And I feel that it was at that

1522
00:54:05,279 --> 00:54:06,416
point where

1523
00:54:06,791 --> 00:54:09,497
the desire to drink was lifted. You know,

1524
00:54:09,656 --> 00:54:12,384
that was the miracle that I had never

1525
00:54:12,442 --> 00:54:15,105
experienced. Before. And I got to bed sober

1526
00:54:15,639 --> 00:54:18,423
that night and I woke up the next

1527
00:54:18,423 --> 00:54:20,651
day, and I couldn't wait to tell people

1528
00:54:20,651 --> 00:54:22,418
that I was on day 2 and I

1529
00:54:22,418 --> 00:54:23,534
came in, and I said I'm helen and

1530
00:54:23,614 --> 00:54:24,890
I'm an alcoholic and I'm monday day 2,

1531
00:54:25,049 --> 00:54:27,202
and people were cheering for me. And, you

1532
00:54:27,202 --> 00:54:29,275
know, it's the group of drunk that initially

1533
00:54:29,275 --> 00:54:31,110
were My higher power and and just help...

1534
00:54:31,284 --> 00:54:32,636
To keep me sober. You know? And when

1535
00:54:32,715 --> 00:54:34,704
I was when I was a week's sober.

1536
00:54:35,181 --> 00:54:37,090
I was a week's sober, I was asked

1537
00:54:37,090 --> 00:54:40,527
to read by an incredible lady to called

1538
00:54:40,687 --> 00:54:43,000
Nikki, and she's she's passed on now, but

1539
00:54:43,558 --> 00:54:44,914
you know, and and we all miss a,

1540
00:54:45,153 --> 00:54:47,147
oh, miss so much, But she was my

1541
00:54:47,147 --> 00:54:47,865
grand sponsor,

1542
00:54:48,583 --> 00:54:51,627
eventually, and she's asked me to read page

1543
00:54:51,627 --> 00:54:52,844
337

1544
00:54:52,902 --> 00:54:54,176
of the big book, and it's in the

1545
00:54:54,176 --> 00:54:56,168
chapter crossing the river a river of denial.

1546
00:54:56,487 --> 00:54:59,140
Mh. You And the Para says, I got

1547
00:54:59,140 --> 00:55:01,860
deeply involved in Aa service because you told

1548
00:55:01,860 --> 00:55:03,539
me if I did, I would never have

1549
00:55:03,539 --> 00:55:05,312
to drink again. You said as long as

1550
00:55:05,472 --> 00:55:08,046
I put Aa first in my life, everything

1551
00:55:08,105 --> 00:55:10,578
that I put second would be first class.

1552
00:55:11,056 --> 00:55:12,979
This has proved to be true over and

1553
00:55:12,979 --> 00:55:15,542
over again. So I continued to put aa

1554
00:55:15,756 --> 00:55:18,613
and God first, and everything I ever lost

1555
00:55:18,613 --> 00:55:20,934
was returned many times over to and I

1556
00:55:20,934 --> 00:55:23,511
remember when I read that, and

1557
00:55:24,690 --> 00:55:26,767
and it funnily enough, it was in the

1558
00:55:26,767 --> 00:55:28,525
big book that I had been given,

1559
00:55:28,940 --> 00:55:30,940
on the 30 first of August, and I

1560
00:55:30,940 --> 00:55:33,180
had never opened that book until that day,

1561
00:55:33,420 --> 00:55:34,480
2 years and

1562
00:55:34,860 --> 00:55:36,780
what would it have been 27 days later.

1563
00:55:37,099 --> 00:55:39,112
Right? I opened up the book and I...

1564
00:55:39,351 --> 00:55:40,625
That was the first thing that I read.

1565
00:55:40,943 --> 00:55:42,376
Right? But it was like a light bulb

1566
00:55:42,376 --> 00:55:43,650
moment, and I was just like, like, all

1567
00:55:43,730 --> 00:55:45,162
I had to do was put my recovery

1568
00:55:45,162 --> 00:55:47,966
first and from that moment, you know, I

1569
00:55:47,966 --> 00:55:49,003
threw myself in,

1570
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,635
and I was I was doing all the

1571
00:55:51,635 --> 00:55:53,869
suggestions. I've got myself a sponsor. I did

1572
00:55:53,869 --> 00:55:55,782
everything, and I still do everything that my

1573
00:55:55,782 --> 00:55:57,393
sponsor told me to do and she's taken

1574
00:55:57,393 --> 00:55:59,630
me through the big book word for word,

1575
00:55:59,870 --> 00:56:03,066
you know? And service is a massive, massive

1576
00:56:03,066 --> 00:56:04,025
part of my recovery.

1577
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,280
I mean, I go to so many meetings

1578
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,420
a day. My sponsor

1579
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:09,640
said to me, you know, put as much

1580
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,400
work into your recovery as you did into

1581
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,215
your drinking. You know, and and so I

1582
00:56:14,295 --> 00:56:15,974
I do it an early morning meeting, I

1583
00:56:15,974 --> 00:56:17,655
do my home group at 01:00.

1584
00:56:18,054 --> 00:56:21,187
And then, because my sponsor act... Actually, as

1585
00:56:21,347 --> 00:56:23,101
I mentioned before she's moved back to La.

1586
00:56:23,341 --> 00:56:25,096
We were trying to find a meeting that

1587
00:56:25,096 --> 00:56:26,771
would suit both of our time zones. So

1588
00:56:26,931 --> 00:56:28,943
I go to a 3PM meeting, which is

1589
00:56:28,943 --> 00:56:31,101
7AM for her. And, you know, a sp

1590
00:56:31,101 --> 00:56:32,938
of others here and there, And I'm always

1591
00:56:32,938 --> 00:56:34,457
doing service and I love it. You know,

1592
00:56:34,617 --> 00:56:37,108
I'm always involved. I really got deeply involved

1593
00:56:37,108 --> 00:56:39,022
in in Aa service. But for me, like,

1594
00:56:39,101 --> 00:56:41,596
the the biggest service that I can ever

1595
00:56:41,813 --> 00:56:43,887
do in any day is, you know, is

1596
00:56:43,887 --> 00:56:45,881
to be of service to another alcoholic. That

1597
00:56:45,881 --> 00:56:48,052
is that is my passion. That's what I

1598
00:56:48,052 --> 00:56:49,810
love to do. Yeah. Once you get the

1599
00:56:49,810 --> 00:56:51,887
program, once you're staying sober once you're doing

1600
00:56:51,887 --> 00:56:53,005
the things you need to do,

1601
00:56:53,738 --> 00:56:56,285
that practicing the principles and all our affairs

1602
00:56:56,285 --> 00:56:57,262
and and

1603
00:56:57,717 --> 00:56:59,707
you know, being there for the alcoholic who

1604
00:56:59,707 --> 00:57:01,195
needs you and wants you

1605
00:57:01,634 --> 00:57:02,613
Those are so

1606
00:57:03,072 --> 00:57:03,572
extraordinarily

1607
00:57:04,031 --> 00:57:04,271
important.

1608
00:57:04,910 --> 00:57:06,449
You mentioned that

1609
00:57:07,706 --> 00:57:09,796
that you do a lot. Meetings are all

1610
00:57:09,796 --> 00:57:12,344
these Zoom or what what percentage of the

1611
00:57:12,344 --> 00:57:14,415
meetings you go to now are in person

1612
00:57:14,415 --> 00:57:15,132
live meetings?

1613
00:57:15,689 --> 00:57:17,521
Most of the meetings I do are Zoom.

1614
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:17,894
The

1615
00:57:18,965 --> 00:57:20,472
because I work from home and I have

1616
00:57:20,472 --> 00:57:22,058
a... I have a a very busy job,

1617
00:57:22,216 --> 00:57:23,034
and I do

1618
00:57:23,485 --> 00:57:26,677
mainly Zoom. When I do... In person meetings,

1619
00:57:26,836 --> 00:57:28,670
it's normally because I'm chair,

1620
00:57:29,388 --> 00:57:30,743
and I loved doing that, you know, and

1621
00:57:30,823 --> 00:57:31,381
I... And

1622
00:57:31,939 --> 00:57:33,534
I do love going to in person meetings.

1623
00:57:33,773 --> 00:57:34,570
I really really do.

1624
00:57:35,540 --> 00:57:38,002
But I also really enjoy the Zoom meetings.

1625
00:57:38,479 --> 00:57:40,385
I just... I really enjoy the connections that

1626
00:57:40,544 --> 00:57:42,054
I have all over the world. You know,

1627
00:57:42,213 --> 00:57:43,642
I've got friends out all over the world.

1628
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,820
I never feel alone because I've got people

1629
00:57:48,118 --> 00:57:49,473
on the other side of the world who

1630
00:57:49,473 --> 00:57:50,987
are still awake, you know, if I wake

1631
00:57:50,987 --> 00:57:51,944
up in the middle of the night, and

1632
00:57:52,024 --> 00:57:54,269
I've got anxiety, you know, doesn't happen often.

1633
00:57:54,429 --> 00:57:56,021
Right. When I was... I turned a year

1634
00:57:56,021 --> 00:57:59,364
sober. And I was overthinking things and things

1635
00:57:59,364 --> 00:58:00,637
just got a little bit too much for

1636
00:58:00,637 --> 00:58:03,516
me and and I remember having anxiety for

1637
00:58:03,516 --> 00:58:04,733
the for the first

1638
00:58:05,108 --> 00:58:08,051
time really since I got sober. Mh. And

1639
00:58:08,051 --> 00:58:09,801
it wasn't about drinking. I didn't wanna drink,

1640
00:58:10,294 --> 00:58:11,809
I didn't really know her at the time,

1641
00:58:11,969 --> 00:58:14,202
but I I messaged this lady over in,

1642
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:15,499
San Diego.

1643
00:58:15,956 --> 00:58:17,711
And, you know, she helped me and and

1644
00:58:17,711 --> 00:58:19,840
we spoke for about 45 minutes, and then

1645
00:58:19,959 --> 00:58:21,474
you know, and then we spoke the next

1646
00:58:21,474 --> 00:58:24,265
day. And now she's become my best friend,

1647
00:58:24,424 --> 00:58:26,258
you know, and that's who I'm gonna go

1648
00:58:26,258 --> 00:58:28,650
and see over in San Diego in September,

1649
00:58:29,064 --> 00:58:31,617
Oh, that's wonderful. Exactly. I mean, Zoom for

1650
00:58:31,617 --> 00:58:32,994
me has really been

1651
00:58:33,372 --> 00:58:35,606
phenomenal. It's been it's been a huge part

1652
00:58:35,606 --> 00:58:36,005
of my...

1653
00:58:36,816 --> 00:58:37,316
A

1654
00:58:37,849 --> 00:58:40,629
journey in the sense of connections as well.

1655
00:58:40,947 --> 00:58:42,139
Speaking of those connections,

1656
00:58:42,774 --> 00:58:45,331
what what has your connection been with? Other

1657
00:58:45,331 --> 00:58:47,023
women as their sponsor.

1658
00:58:47,635 --> 00:58:49,463
I love I love being a sponsor.

1659
00:58:50,178 --> 00:58:51,608
It was funny. When I was going through

1660
00:58:51,608 --> 00:58:52,006
my steps.

1661
00:58:52,657 --> 00:58:54,326
And my sponsor would say to me, you

1662
00:58:54,326 --> 00:58:56,472
know, 1 day when you're a sponsor, and

1663
00:58:56,551 --> 00:58:58,141
I would just kind of freeze and I

1664
00:58:58,141 --> 00:59:00,143
was like, I'm not ready to do that,

1665
00:59:00,301 --> 00:59:01,572
you know, I'm not ready to be a

1666
00:59:01,572 --> 00:59:03,876
sponsor, but, you know, it was before I

1667
00:59:03,876 --> 00:59:05,464
finished my steps. I think I was still

1668
00:59:05,464 --> 00:59:08,108
on step 11, or, 10 or 11, and

1669
00:59:08,338 --> 00:59:09,369
somebody asked me to,

1670
00:59:09,925 --> 00:59:11,830
sponsor them, and I was I was really

1671
00:59:11,830 --> 00:59:13,259
hoping that she would, and I was ready

1672
00:59:13,259 --> 00:59:14,449
for it and I was like... And I

1673
00:59:14,449 --> 00:59:15,322
asked my sponsor,

1674
00:59:15,974 --> 00:59:17,887
And and I said, she's asked me, you

1675
00:59:17,887 --> 00:59:19,322
know, is it... Do you think I'm ready?

1676
00:59:19,481 --> 00:59:20,916
And she said, do you think you're ready?

1677
00:59:21,155 --> 00:59:22,510
And I said, yeah, I think I'm ready,

1678
00:59:22,590 --> 00:59:23,865
and she was like, I think you're ready.

1679
00:59:24,119 --> 00:59:25,869
I just... I love it being able to

1680
00:59:25,869 --> 00:59:28,257
help someone and take other women through the

1681
00:59:28,257 --> 00:59:29,928
big, but when I was when I was

1682
00:59:29,928 --> 00:59:32,970
so helpless myself. It's just a miracle. I

1683
00:59:32,970 --> 00:59:34,326
mean, that is that is 1 of the

1684
00:59:34,326 --> 00:59:36,400
biggest gifts that I can actually help other

1685
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,713
people. It's had its ups and downs.

1686
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:41,106
Tell me about some of the downs.

1687
00:59:41,838 --> 00:59:43,752
Well, because I think what people are most...

1688
00:59:44,070 --> 00:59:45,846
1 of the things that's so important

1689
00:59:46,223 --> 00:59:48,456
to people sitting in a rooms or being

1690
00:59:48,456 --> 00:59:49,811
on Aa Zoom calls.

1691
00:59:50,623 --> 00:59:51,123
Is

1692
00:59:51,579 --> 00:59:54,309
especially when somebody who was sharing has,

1693
00:59:55,005 --> 00:59:57,076
you know, years or decades of time,

1694
00:59:57,889 --> 01:00:00,286
there's the, assumption that their life must be

1695
01:00:00,286 --> 01:00:02,203
going pretty good because they're still sober after

1696
01:00:02,203 --> 01:00:02,922
all this time.

1697
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:04,380
But

1698
01:00:04,854 --> 01:00:07,091
everybody's life always has its ups and downs?

1699
01:00:07,251 --> 01:00:09,088
And the question is, how did you stay

1700
01:00:09,088 --> 01:00:11,646
sober during the downs? And can you point

1701
01:00:11,646 --> 01:00:15,586
to a... Particular incident or 2 where your

1702
01:00:16,041 --> 01:00:19,247
sobriety really got tested and your desire to

1703
01:00:19,623 --> 01:00:21,931
stay sober, or stay alive for prevail,

1704
01:00:22,503 --> 01:00:23,637
Yeah. So

1705
01:00:24,090 --> 01:00:26,018
I've had a couple of things recently.

1706
01:00:27,026 --> 01:00:28,875
The first 1 I'll speak about

1707
01:00:29,248 --> 01:00:29,748
is

1708
01:00:31,487 --> 01:00:32,544
outside of the Aa.

1709
01:00:33,637 --> 01:00:35,627
I'm gonna go back to my sister who

1710
01:00:35,627 --> 01:00:38,016
has cancer, and, you know, that's that is

1711
01:00:38,016 --> 01:00:38,994
a very difficult

1712
01:00:39,623 --> 01:00:41,378
time for all of us, you know, but

1713
01:00:41,378 --> 01:00:43,771
not once... Since I got sober, not once

1714
01:00:43,851 --> 01:00:45,286
I thought about picking up a drink on

1715
01:00:45,286 --> 01:00:46,962
that, you know? And

1716
01:00:47,679 --> 01:00:49,608
and she's not... I mean, I... I we

1717
01:00:49,608 --> 01:00:51,835
don't really know how long she's got left,

1718
01:00:51,994 --> 01:00:52,472
but

1719
01:00:53,188 --> 01:00:54,540
you know, she didn't even think that she

1720
01:00:54,540 --> 01:00:55,972
would be with us even last...

1721
01:00:57,023 --> 01:00:58,777
April, you know? And so when I go

1722
01:00:58,777 --> 01:01:00,851
over and see her in September, that's probably

1723
01:01:00,851 --> 01:01:02,765
gonna be the last time that I see

1724
01:01:02,765 --> 01:01:05,078
her, you know. And she's 1 of my

1725
01:01:05,078 --> 01:01:07,486
biggest supports now. You know, she really is,

1726
01:01:07,566 --> 01:01:09,959
and it's it's incredible. Since I got sober,

1727
01:01:10,198 --> 01:01:12,112
I have never wanted to pick up a

1728
01:01:12,112 --> 01:01:15,861
drink over, you know, that situation. However,

1729
01:01:16,674 --> 01:01:18,671
she, you know, how the much she is

1730
01:01:18,671 --> 01:01:21,468
declining, so to speak, but man she's a

1731
01:01:21,468 --> 01:01:23,965
fighter. She's incredible. But then recently,

1732
01:01:24,439 --> 01:01:26,195
I will talk about a situation. I have

1733
01:01:26,195 --> 01:01:26,695
a

1734
01:01:27,313 --> 01:01:28,291
I had a sp

1735
01:01:29,228 --> 01:01:30,606
up until very recently,

1736
01:01:31,942 --> 01:01:32,340
who...

1737
01:01:32,834 --> 01:01:34,828
Is very, very unwell, and she has a

1738
01:01:34,828 --> 01:01:35,647
lot of

1739
01:01:36,264 --> 01:01:37,801
outside issues, and

1740
01:01:38,178 --> 01:01:40,193
it's not even that that was the difficult

1741
01:01:40,332 --> 01:01:40,651
thing.

1742
01:01:41,608 --> 01:01:42,405
But, you know,

1743
01:01:43,139 --> 01:01:44,179
she did get up to,

1744
01:01:45,059 --> 01:01:47,460
2 months of of sobriety completely clean and

1745
01:01:47,460 --> 01:01:47,780
sober.

1746
01:01:48,820 --> 01:01:51,651
And, you know, it was it was very

1747
01:01:51,945 --> 01:01:52,445
draining,

1748
01:01:52,899 --> 01:01:54,886
not that she was a burden at all.

1749
01:01:55,045 --> 01:01:56,793
It... I'm not saying that at all, but

1750
01:01:56,793 --> 01:01:57,827
my emotional,

1751
01:01:58,558 --> 01:01:58,876
Sobriety

1752
01:01:59,513 --> 01:02:02,221
Really started to get out of balance.

1753
01:02:02,778 --> 01:02:03,278
And

1754
01:02:03,972 --> 01:02:06,440
I was finding myself quite exhausted and getting

1755
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,092
physics unwell myself with sort of tension headaches

1756
01:02:09,092 --> 01:02:12,447
and things. And the reality is that she...

1757
01:02:12,607 --> 01:02:15,257
When she relapse after 2 months, it was

1758
01:02:15,257 --> 01:02:19,085
evident that she just wasn't willing, you know,

1759
01:02:19,245 --> 01:02:21,398
and she didn't want it enough. And I

1760
01:02:21,398 --> 01:02:23,972
did see a big change in her

1761
01:02:24,445 --> 01:02:28,045
when she, when she relapse, she she had

1762
01:02:28,045 --> 01:02:28,925
this gear shift.

1763
01:02:29,405 --> 01:02:29,885
And

1764
01:02:30,525 --> 01:02:33,016
and I was I was very I, you

1765
01:02:33,016 --> 01:02:35,003
know, and III was happy to carry on

1766
01:02:35,003 --> 01:02:35,798
sponsoring her.

1767
01:02:37,547 --> 01:02:38,818
Because at that point, I didn't know if

1768
01:02:38,818 --> 01:02:40,249
there was more that I was able to,

1769
01:02:40,646 --> 01:02:41,362
do for her.

1770
01:02:42,650 --> 01:02:45,836
But since then, you know, it's it's... That

1771
01:02:45,836 --> 01:02:47,827
willingness has kind of declined, and it's and

1772
01:02:47,827 --> 01:02:49,976
it's and it's devastating to see, you know,

1773
01:02:50,629 --> 01:02:53,099
the illness, and, you know, I was told

1774
01:02:53,099 --> 01:02:55,331
that God doesn't put 2 people together to

1775
01:02:55,331 --> 01:02:56,207
only help 1 of them.

1776
01:02:57,004 --> 01:02:58,120
You know, this whole...

1777
01:02:58,612 --> 01:03:01,317
Situation has helped me massively to realize why

1778
01:03:01,396 --> 01:03:03,465
I never wanna pick up another drink.

1779
01:03:04,340 --> 01:03:07,458
Yeah. That's very, very true and especially When

1780
01:03:07,458 --> 01:03:10,242
we talk about the importance of sponsorship,

1781
01:03:11,117 --> 01:03:13,526
sponsorship being about keeping the person who's sponsoring

1782
01:03:14,552 --> 01:03:17,041
Sober while teaching the person who's being sponsored

1783
01:03:17,098 --> 01:03:18,530
how to sponsor other people.

1784
01:03:19,802 --> 01:03:21,871
And and the fact that you were able

1785
01:03:21,871 --> 01:03:22,848
to deal with

1786
01:03:23,239 --> 01:03:25,497
that very heartbreaking and disappointing

1787
01:03:26,675 --> 01:03:28,533
situation, but not drink yourself

1788
01:03:28,992 --> 01:03:30,830
and be able to see the gifts in

1789
01:03:30,830 --> 01:03:32,782
that otherwise, very tragic

1790
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,795
situation. To me, anytime I hear anybody expressing

1791
01:03:35,795 --> 01:03:37,652
in that way, I I feel very

1792
01:03:38,429 --> 01:03:41,500
uplifted and very confident that their

1793
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,660
personal sobriety is probably fully intact and really

1794
01:03:45,719 --> 01:03:48,414
moving forward in a very positive way. So

1795
01:03:48,614 --> 01:03:50,209
I think that's something that people need to

1796
01:03:50,209 --> 01:03:52,841
hear more of, and that is... I sponsored

1797
01:03:52,841 --> 01:03:54,835
someone who didn't stay sober, but I stayed

1798
01:03:54,835 --> 01:03:55,814
sober and

1799
01:03:56,191 --> 01:03:57,887
until the next person I sponsor

1800
01:03:58,599 --> 01:04:00,519
then we'll see if they stay sober, but

1801
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:02,279
I'm not gonna drink. To me, it speaks

1802
01:04:02,279 --> 01:04:04,599
to the strength and the working of your

1803
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:05,099
program,

1804
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,561
and that you are doing the things that

1805
01:04:07,561 --> 01:04:09,628
you need to do to stay sober and

1806
01:04:09,628 --> 01:04:12,172
to be of service to other people. And

1807
01:04:12,172 --> 01:04:13,229
that... That's a wonderful

1808
01:04:13,698 --> 01:04:16,327
place to be. It's... I'm just incredibly grateful.

1809
01:04:16,486 --> 01:04:18,398
You know, I've got a very strong sponsor,

1810
01:04:18,637 --> 01:04:19,137
and

1811
01:04:19,514 --> 01:04:21,425
during this whole process, you know, I've had

1812
01:04:21,425 --> 01:04:24,567
to revisit, like... Step 3 in step 7

1813
01:04:24,624 --> 01:04:27,248
and do step you know, the the step

1814
01:04:27,248 --> 01:04:29,713
3 prayer, a step 7 prayer and, you

1815
01:04:29,713 --> 01:04:31,953
know, step 3. I mean, you know, how

1816
01:04:31,953 --> 01:04:34,571
how can I be of used to anybody

1817
01:04:34,571 --> 01:04:36,317
when I am in such bonded with myself?

1818
01:04:36,872 --> 01:04:39,490
Right? So I've got another sponsor who is,

1819
01:04:39,570 --> 01:04:41,816
you she she absolutely goes to any lengths,

1820
01:04:41,976 --> 01:04:44,047
but she's she's got struggles, you know, in

1821
01:04:44,047 --> 01:04:45,482
her life, and I was having to make

1822
01:04:45,482 --> 01:04:47,235
sure that I was I was being a

1823
01:04:47,235 --> 01:04:49,010
max sim service to her. That's my 1

1824
01:04:49,010 --> 01:04:50,849
and only job. Right? It talks about it

1825
01:04:50,849 --> 01:04:52,530
in the book to be of maximum service

1826
01:04:52,530 --> 01:04:54,289
to to god. Right? But I have a

1827
01:04:54,289 --> 01:04:56,936
purpose today. This is I never knew that

1828
01:04:57,096 --> 01:04:58,948
I had a purpose, and I had always

1829
01:04:59,005 --> 01:05:01,789
wondered why? Why am I an alcoholic? You

1830
01:05:01,789 --> 01:05:04,519
know, not... What makes me an alcoholic. I

1831
01:05:04,519 --> 01:05:06,760
know now. You know, I... I'm allergic to

1832
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,920
alcohol. I have that abnormal reaction. I know

1833
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:10,933
about the mental obsession and the you know,

1834
01:05:11,171 --> 01:05:13,318
phenomenon of craving and all of that. And

1835
01:05:13,318 --> 01:05:13,636
but I...

1836
01:05:14,511 --> 01:05:16,101
I've always wanted to know why, you know,

1837
01:05:16,181 --> 01:05:18,963
and it was it was when I finished

1838
01:05:18,963 --> 01:05:20,966
my steps, and I became a, sponsor,

1839
01:05:21,523 --> 01:05:24,489
you know, I I started to realize, maybe

1840
01:05:24,625 --> 01:05:26,773
maybe this was always part of the plan.

1841
01:05:27,584 --> 01:05:29,742
This was my higher powers plan. Maybe I

1842
01:05:29,742 --> 01:05:30,562
was born

1843
01:05:31,260 --> 01:05:34,537
to be an alcoholic. And maybe I had

1844
01:05:34,537 --> 01:05:36,829
to go through, you know, a lot of

1845
01:05:37,108 --> 01:05:39,967
pain in my childhood and and trauma and,

1846
01:05:40,047 --> 01:05:41,954
you know, all of that dark times and

1847
01:05:41,954 --> 01:05:43,543
and everything. Maybe I had to do that

1848
01:05:43,543 --> 01:05:45,309
so that It brought me to the gates

1849
01:05:45,309 --> 01:05:47,699
of insanity and death suicide attempt all of

1850
01:05:47,699 --> 01:05:49,373
that kind of stuff to bring me to

1851
01:05:49,373 --> 01:05:51,046
the rooms of alcoholic anonymous.

1852
01:05:51,539 --> 01:05:52,980
So that I could go through the 12

1853
01:05:52,980 --> 01:05:54,500
steps just so that I can help another

1854
01:05:54,500 --> 01:05:56,980
alcoholic. Like, that is my purpose today.

1855
01:05:57,860 --> 01:05:59,866
And a great demonstration. Of god working in

1856
01:05:59,866 --> 01:06:01,767
our lives is everything that you just said.

1857
01:06:02,401 --> 01:06:02,956
What a gift?

1858
01:06:03,590 --> 01:06:05,174
What a gift it is? And it's in

1859
01:06:05,174 --> 01:06:08,617
in and some you work an extraordinary program,

1860
01:06:08,856 --> 01:06:11,652
And I've really enjoyed talking with you today

1861
01:06:11,652 --> 01:06:14,703
and and having you share your story, on

1862
01:06:14,703 --> 01:06:16,934
a a recovery interviews. I honor your sobriety,

1863
01:06:17,093 --> 01:06:19,005
and I I wish you many, many more

1864
01:06:19,005 --> 01:06:21,317
days and weeks and months and years. And

1865
01:06:21,476 --> 01:06:23,797
I appreciate your spending the time with me

1866
01:06:23,797 --> 01:06:25,786
today. Thank you so much, Howard for asking

1867
01:06:25,786 --> 01:06:27,297
me. What a gift to be able to

1868
01:06:27,297 --> 01:06:29,922
sit here today. Again, many thanks for doing

1869
01:06:29,922 --> 01:06:32,395
this. Thank you so much. I really appreciate

1870
01:06:32,395 --> 01:06:32,632
it.

1871
01:06:33,821 --> 01:06:35,643
Well, my friends, that's a wrap for this

1872
01:06:35,643 --> 01:06:37,228
episode of Aa recovery interviews.

1873
01:06:37,798 --> 01:06:39,869
Thanks to Helen M for sharing her story.

1874
01:06:40,187 --> 01:06:41,621
And thank you for tuning in.

1875
01:06:42,257 --> 01:06:44,009
If you enjoyed a aa a recovery interviews,

1876
01:06:44,168 --> 01:06:45,601
we you please tell others how to listen

1877
01:06:45,601 --> 01:06:45,840
to it.

1878
01:06:46,652 --> 01:06:48,407
And please leave a rating or review for

1879
01:06:48,407 --> 01:06:51,598
the show on Apple podcasts. That'll help others

1880
01:06:51,598 --> 01:06:51,996
find us.

1881
01:06:53,034 --> 01:06:54,629
Of course, you can listen to the podcast

1882
01:06:54,629 --> 01:06:58,065
on Apple podcasts, I heart radio Spotify, Pandora

1883
01:06:58,065 --> 01:07:01,003
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1884
01:07:01,003 --> 01:07:02,352
tell Siri or Alexa,

1885
01:07:02,908 --> 01:07:04,973
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1886
01:07:05,623 --> 01:07:08,169
Or visit our website, hey recovery interviews dot

1887
01:07:08,169 --> 01:07:10,237
com. To you hear every show, share your

1888
01:07:10,237 --> 01:07:11,907
comments and also contact us.

1889
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:14,389
If you want to email me directly, it's

1890
01:07:14,389 --> 01:07:16,776
howard at a a recovery interviews dot com.

1891
01:07:17,889 --> 01:07:19,958
By the way, this podcast strictly adhere to

1892
01:07:19,958 --> 01:07:23,076
a 12 traditions. And all general service office

1893
01:07:23,076 --> 01:07:25,382
guidelines for safeguard anonymity online.

1894
01:07:26,018 --> 01:07:28,245
I pay all production costs and no 1

1895
01:07:28,245 --> 01:07:29,836
receives financial gain from the show.

1896
01:07:30,567 --> 01:07:32,956
Aa recovery interviews and my guests do not

1897
01:07:32,956 --> 01:07:35,106
speak for or represent A large.

1898
01:07:35,823 --> 01:07:37,814
This podcast is simply my way of giving

1899
01:07:37,814 --> 01:07:38,053
back to.

1900
01:07:39,023 --> 01:07:40,769
That which has been so freely given to

1901
01:07:40,769 --> 01:07:41,007
me.

1902
01:07:42,197 --> 01:07:44,340
The next episode of aa recovery interview is

1903
01:07:44,340 --> 01:07:46,483
on the way, So keep coming back. It'll

1904
01:07:46,483 --> 01:07:47,197
be here soon.