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Welcome back my friends to Aa Recovery interviews.

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I'm your host, Howard A, and I'm an

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alcoholic. Silver since 01/01/1988,

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1 day at a time. I'm grateful you've

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joined us.

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Aa recovery interviews is the podcast where Out

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hoax and anonymous members from around the world,

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share their extraordinary stories of experience, strength and

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hope.

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There are more than 150

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interviews in the podcast series, all of which

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you can enjoy on a recovery interviews dot

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com and all podcast apps.

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This

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Sex drugs and rock and roll were more

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than a cliche in the life of Elliot

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m. My guest on this episode of Aa

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recovery interviews.

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As a prominent rock musician and song writer

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for years before his alcoholism drove him into

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alcoholic synonymous.

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Elliott drinking ran parallel to his rise to

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start him.

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Ironically, his best song right in performances were

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largely free from the influence of alcohol and

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drugs. But off state, his drinking and drug

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were d every facet of his life. His

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descent to the bottom occurred during the 5

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years preceding his 19 85 sobriety day. Each

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Like many of his conte, Elliott career had

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soared in the midst of his functional alcoholism.

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Before Booze became the male factor hell bent

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on ruining his life.

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With his options running out, the answer to

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his prayer for release finally showed up in

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the form of a simple Aa questionnaire given

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to him by the woman he would later

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marry.

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After his last drink, Elliott ent entree into

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Aa launched a new life in which sobriety

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is his number 1 priority.

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His relocation to paris 35 years ago allowed

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him to continue active

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participation in Na and performances for his European

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fans.

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In a sober career c full of accomplishments,

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including more than 40 albums.

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Elliot Readily gives credit to his higher power

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for every step of his success.

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His ongoing commitment to regular meetings and Aa

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fellowship,

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keep him humbly connected to the program.

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He red leaks extends the hand of Aa

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to anyone who reaches out for help.

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1 of my previous guests on Aa recovery

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interviews attends meetings with Elliott whenever he's in

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paris and suggested Elliott for the show.

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Meeting him by Zoom has been in real

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treat, and I think he'll enjoy hearing his

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captivating story.

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So please enjoy the next 60 minutes with

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my friend and a brother,

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elliott m.

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Elliott.

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Alcoholic. Hi, Elliot. Thanks so much for joining

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me today on a a recovery interviews. I

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really appreciate you taking the time to join

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me from Europe, more specifically from...

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France.

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I'm in Paris,

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France in the second ar diesel.

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Paris is divided into 20 of

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Aaron d, which are the corner of the

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city, and they go, like, spiral out. So

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the second is right in the center. Oh,

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how exciting.

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I'm always looking for people to

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share with me the stories that will make

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the biggest impact on people who hear them

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around the world and so I wanna really

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thank for doing this today.

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So you don't sound... Your French accent is

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leaving something to be desired. I'm I'm wondering

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what what the heck is up with that?

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Measure

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say.

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Oh, okay. I do speak French, but I

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mean, I've been here

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35 years in France.

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And I'm originally from Long Island, New York.

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So I probably still have traces of that

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accent. You've got that long Island

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accent. I was listening. To

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Billy Joel I was at the gym yesterday,

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just just to kind of reconnect with the

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seventies there

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And you know, the the period of music

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enjoyment that I got locked into, and he's

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from Long Island too, I believe isn't a.

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He is and a good friend of mine.

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So how did a guy like you end

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up in aa?

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Wow. That's a big question. It is. I

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know.

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I celebrated a anniversary. I had 39 years

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of sobriety on 05/05/1819

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85. Though I don't take much credit for.

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Congratulations on that. Thank you. But how did

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I get into Aa. I mean,

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it's a miracle, first of all, credit I'm

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gonna start kinda from that moment. I I

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love that

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we refer to it as when I came

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in. It's like when you enter.

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Mh. Miracle. When you enter the miracle, and

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that's what happened to me if I can

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go back 39 years it was early May,

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and I was in my apartment in New

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York.

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And

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I had to catch a plane the next

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state of fly to Milwaukee to do some

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recording. I'm a musician. I'm professional singer song,

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or guitar. I've been doing it for 50

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years. Mh. And I've always made a living

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at a although it was in my last

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years of

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being active, it was pretty tough. But there

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it was in my apartment. And I had

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to catch this plane the next day, which

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Saturday

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to do some recording, and it was a

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my first big break I I'd had in

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a long time, but there I was, And

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I'm trying to decide, Mh. What should I...

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I was so nervous about taking this flight

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the next day going to Milwaukee, and I

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said, well better go I have a few

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beers just to relax.

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And, of course,

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the next morning,

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10:00 in the morning. I was back home.

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I was chugging Vodka. I was Harp valley.

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I was sn anything on my shack carpet,

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which looked like cocaine.

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And

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I was praying harp And I've been in

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this same situation countless number a times. Right,

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my heart was going a hundred and 50

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times a minute. Mh. And I was just

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praying to this God of

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my child really don't love me die.

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And I received this message at that moment

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very clear.

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I still remember to this day. It was

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nothing meta physical. It wasn't like Bill Wilson

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white light moment, but I did receive this

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message that said to me Elliott. This is

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what you do and you're gonna continue doing

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this.

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So forget the deals.

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And I managed to get to sleep, I

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caught that flight due to Milwaukee. Mh. I

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went out to dinner that night with my

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friend a fellow a musician who I had

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fired from a band some years before, and

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he ended up being in very successful band

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and brought me out there to record, and

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I'm met this woman,

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who, I liked, and she drove me a

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home,

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to his house or staying. And

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in her bag and her purse, she had

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at questionnaire,

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are you not?

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And she con find me that she had

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2 years of sobriety,

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and I did not

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ask her. This she just decided.

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The look on my face, I guess, her

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name was Rita. I went through the questionnaire

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with her and it was basically yes yes

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yes yes Yes. Yes to every question. Except

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the last question, which was do you drink

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in the morning?

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And I said, no, I do not drink

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in the morning? And she said, what time

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do you wake up? And I said up

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03:00 in the afternoon.

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So

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she thought I might like to try it

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on Aa am meeting. I said, you know,

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it sounds great. I wish Had problem with

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alcohol,

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and she asked me how often her drank

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I said, well. Every day. I drink something,

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You know, I drink beer or whine or

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wrong didn't always get drunk. But

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she said you were we should come to

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a maybe at you. You can... You don't

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have to say anything or do anything or

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talked to anybody, but just sit through an

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hour.

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And I liked her, and that was really

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my motivation. This was in Milwaukee. This was

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in Milwaukee in 19 85 and

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You know, I grew up in a suburbs,

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and I didn't really look like the suburbs,

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and

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I'm I'm still a city cat to this

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day. She brought me into this meeting in

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the suburbs of Milwaukee,

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and it was in, like a church and

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it was in the basement and

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Classic A.

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Classic Aa, and midwest, very midwestern.

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They they closed with the Lord's prayer,

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and the interesting thing was the person was

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leading the meeting said, is there anyone here

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for the first meeting wants to say hello

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hello

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and pointed to me. And I was like,

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was shit. This isn't fair. They knew it.

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And I said, well, I'm elliot, and I'm

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checking this out. I don't know what's...

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What's going on, but I'm here and everyone

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applauded it. What I didn't realize there was

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someone behind me who would actually had their

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hand up.

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So I guess I, was supposed to claim

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my seat there. And

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then they... As they do in Midwest meetings,

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they broke into small groups,

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like, birch table Mh. Size groups, and I

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sat down at 1 of those groups, not

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with rita, but with a group of strangers,

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you know,

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very un people. I thought these were insurance

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salesman and teachers and, you know, what am

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I doing here? I always like to say

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they didn't know, Chuck Berry from raspberry.

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And

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we all went around and

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did our little share. And and when I

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left that meeting,

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Howard I just

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I knew these people knew more about me

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than anyone I'd had ever met I talked

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to. And mh, I I virtually just...

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From that moment alone,

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never had a drink. So when the day

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before when you were drinking, you had no

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idea that the last drink you took. Would

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be the last drink for that you would

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end up in a... No idea. And in

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fact, it was the opposite. As I as

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I said, I got this message that this

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is what you do and I will continue

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doing it. That's amazing. It was I guess,

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a first step. I guess that was a

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moment I had admitted I was powerless, and

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I could not stop drinking. Sounds like I

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an answer to a prayer elliott.

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You mentioned just a few minutes ago that

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you had asked gods to not let you

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die when you were a child. What was

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going on that you would have had to

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utter that kind of prayer as a child.

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So I grew up on Long Island in

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a very upper middle class

271
00:09:56,670 --> 00:09:57,170
suburb

272
00:09:57,550 --> 00:09:59,790
there, and my father was in show business.

273
00:10:00,750 --> 00:10:03,070
And he was kind of a local celebrity,

274
00:10:04,604 --> 00:10:07,320
We... I had a very affluent lifestyle, everything

275
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:07,960
I wanted.

276
00:10:09,078 --> 00:10:09,557
You know,

277
00:10:10,356 --> 00:10:12,127
we lived in a huge. House with a

278
00:10:12,127 --> 00:10:14,356
big wall around it, neither of my parents

279
00:10:14,356 --> 00:10:16,586
drank by the way. I mean, they they...

280
00:10:16,745 --> 00:10:18,259
My father had a few beers at dinner,

281
00:10:18,418 --> 00:10:20,584
but I never saw my parents house drunk.

282
00:10:20,824 --> 00:10:23,065
Was ernie alcoholism further on back in the

283
00:10:23,065 --> 00:10:26,125
family with grandparents. I heard my mother's father

284
00:10:26,345 --> 00:10:28,125
was an alcoholic and

285
00:10:29,077 --> 00:10:31,308
that really scarred her. You know, He was...

286
00:10:31,707 --> 00:10:33,301
He would go off to work and not

287
00:10:33,301 --> 00:10:34,895
come back for 2 days later, He'd be

288
00:10:34,895 --> 00:10:35,373
on a binge.

289
00:10:36,825 --> 00:10:38,285
When the... When I was 16,

290
00:10:39,065 --> 00:10:39,565
hang

291
00:10:40,345 --> 00:10:41,644
I've always been an insomnia,

292
00:10:42,345 --> 00:10:43,304
always a night bird.

293
00:10:43,958 --> 00:10:46,499
Night owl, and my mother person to my

294
00:10:46,499 --> 00:10:48,801
roam is about midnight, I guess, and she

295
00:10:48,801 --> 00:10:50,412
said, come caught your father's

296
00:10:50,944 --> 00:10:52,373
having some kind of an attack.

297
00:10:53,024 --> 00:10:54,693
And I went into their bedroom. And there

298
00:10:54,693 --> 00:10:56,283
my father was. He was lying in bed,

299
00:10:56,919 --> 00:10:59,224
and he was obviously having a heart attack.

300
00:10:59,940 --> 00:11:00,337
And

301
00:11:00,988 --> 00:11:03,369
At that moment, I didn't know it, but

302
00:11:03,369 --> 00:11:04,956
as I watched him, he died.

303
00:11:05,512 --> 00:11:07,179
I mean, his eyes turned up.

304
00:11:08,543 --> 00:11:10,476
He lost control of his

305
00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:11,966
of his arms.

306
00:11:12,523 --> 00:11:13,182
He made

307
00:11:13,558 --> 00:11:15,866
this terrible sound, which is a a death

308
00:11:15,866 --> 00:11:18,117
ra sound that it does exist

309
00:11:18,983 --> 00:11:19,380
And

310
00:11:20,651 --> 00:11:22,160
I did not know he had died at

311
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,374
that point, but

312
00:11:24,145 --> 00:11:25,812
my mother sent me next door to get

313
00:11:25,812 --> 00:11:27,321
a doctor and I went to get a.

314
00:11:27,733 --> 00:11:29,957
Doctor. And when that doctor came to the

315
00:11:29,957 --> 00:11:31,386
door, he said, let me get my bag,

316
00:11:31,545 --> 00:11:32,260
I'll be right down.

317
00:11:32,975 --> 00:11:34,325
When he ran up to get his bag,

318
00:11:34,563 --> 00:11:36,231
I dropped to my knees and I prayed.

319
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,199
And I said, please don't love my father

320
00:11:39,199 --> 00:11:39,519
die.

321
00:11:40,639 --> 00:11:42,399
And then we got back to the house,

322
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,529
and he we whip my mother and I

323
00:11:45,529 --> 00:11:47,600
waited outside the room. He went inside for

324
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,114
a few minutes, and it came out. And

325
00:11:49,114 --> 00:11:50,389
he said, I'm sorry he's gone.

326
00:11:51,599 --> 00:11:52,236
And really,

327
00:11:52,714 --> 00:11:55,344
Howard, that was the moment that all my

328
00:11:55,344 --> 00:11:56,641
faith just

329
00:11:57,734 --> 00:11:58,452
just left me.

330
00:11:59,104 --> 00:12:01,253
You know, I... That was the moment that

331
00:12:01,413 --> 00:12:04,040
I lost all belief that things were gonna

332
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,269
be okay, you know, that things would work

333
00:12:06,269 --> 00:12:08,040
out. Now you're sick. Explain when this has

334
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,320
happening. And so did you have that belief

335
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,399
prior to that point? I mean, did you

336
00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:15,320
grow up, believing that god was working in

337
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,849
your life or god worked in the world.

338
00:12:17,008 --> 00:12:19,472
Yes. I did. Of course, because I had

339
00:12:19,472 --> 00:12:20,983
a I had a good life and my

340
00:12:20,983 --> 00:12:21,380
parent,

341
00:12:22,016 --> 00:12:23,550
I was provided for

342
00:12:24,179 --> 00:12:25,697
I was a little bit of a nervous

343
00:12:25,697 --> 00:12:28,255
kid, maybe, but I had great interest.

344
00:12:29,054 --> 00:12:30,892
I was always a reader from a very

345
00:12:30,892 --> 00:12:32,865
early age. And I was into music. I

346
00:12:32,984 --> 00:12:34,662
started playing the guitar when I was 12,

347
00:12:35,301 --> 00:12:38,577
and that instrument and music as was really

348
00:12:38,577 --> 00:12:39,057
my life,

349
00:12:39,776 --> 00:12:43,051
my life, with what happened. So... Mh. After

350
00:12:43,051 --> 00:12:45,671
my father died, my family went into free

351
00:12:45,671 --> 00:12:46,465
fall. Really,

352
00:12:47,814 --> 00:12:49,505
he had not died at a good

353
00:12:50,053 --> 00:12:52,279
time for his business. He had a restaurant

354
00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:54,529
by then quite a big restaurant with

355
00:12:54,904 --> 00:12:59,118
local political celebrities Bobby Kennedy came there Nelson

356
00:12:59,277 --> 00:13:02,626
Rockefeller or people of that era and we

357
00:13:02,626 --> 00:13:03,896
lost everything and

358
00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:05,904
moved to a very

359
00:13:06,357 --> 00:13:06,857
tiny

360
00:13:07,483 --> 00:13:09,946
ugly little house in the same town.

361
00:13:10,741 --> 00:13:13,204
My mother who had, you know, been to

362
00:13:13,204 --> 00:13:15,111
the dancing at the White House,

363
00:13:16,159 --> 00:13:18,711
Mh Was then working in a jewelry store

364
00:13:18,711 --> 00:13:19,350
in the same,

365
00:13:20,147 --> 00:13:21,982
you know, building as my father used to

366
00:13:21,982 --> 00:13:23,976
stabbed have the restaurant, and she hooked up

367
00:13:23,976 --> 00:13:26,465
with a... Another guy whose name was slim

368
00:13:26,465 --> 00:13:29,024
and he was a total alcoholic. Mh,

369
00:13:29,425 --> 00:13:31,665
Slim was a 3 martini lunch guy. It

370
00:13:31,665 --> 00:13:32,565
was the sixties

371
00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:34,945
slim and I didn't get along at all.

372
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:37,919
I remember watching the kent state shootings with

373
00:13:37,919 --> 00:13:40,320
him and his response was they should've used

374
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,799
machine guns. Oh, god. It was the sixties.

375
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,369
So I I pretty much... I had started

376
00:13:45,369 --> 00:13:48,234
drinking, like, almost like all teenagers, you know,

377
00:13:48,473 --> 00:13:50,008
14 15, and

378
00:13:50,383 --> 00:13:53,407
16, and then I started taking drug smoking

379
00:13:53,407 --> 00:13:56,057
pod. And when I was 18, I was

380
00:13:56,057 --> 00:13:58,874
taking a psychedelic drug called the Dmt

381
00:13:59,413 --> 00:14:01,890
that I smoked and I had a...

382
00:14:02,942 --> 00:14:05,648
Very bad reaction and I started having really

383
00:14:05,648 --> 00:14:08,911
bad panic attacks some months later. Mh. I

384
00:14:08,911 --> 00:14:10,822
went to see a psychiatrist. He put me

385
00:14:10,822 --> 00:14:11,560
on thor.

386
00:14:12,429 --> 00:14:14,503
For a while. And... But I continued to

387
00:14:14,503 --> 00:14:16,598
drink, you know, alcohol

388
00:14:16,975 --> 00:14:19,368
back in the 60 far to think of

389
00:14:19,368 --> 00:14:21,123
it this way, but that was almost the

390
00:14:21,123 --> 00:14:23,292
safe drug, you know, If you just drank,

391
00:14:23,451 --> 00:14:24,409
it was was okay.

392
00:14:25,287 --> 00:14:27,442
There were so many drugs going on. It

393
00:14:27,442 --> 00:14:29,596
wasn't as easy to get as the drugs

394
00:14:29,596 --> 00:14:32,563
though. Was it? Well, the drinking age was

395
00:14:32,563 --> 00:14:35,594
18 back then. Oh, 18. Okay. It was

396
00:14:35,594 --> 00:14:37,029
18 in New York and of course, I

397
00:14:37,029 --> 00:14:37,849
had a fake

398
00:14:38,226 --> 00:14:40,162
Id too, you know, when I was

399
00:14:41,032 --> 00:14:43,185
everybody did. When you were... When you started

400
00:14:43,185 --> 00:14:45,837
drinking, were you drinking to

401
00:14:46,214 --> 00:14:47,968
fit in with the people around you? Were

402
00:14:47,968 --> 00:14:50,460
you drinking for fact what was the motivation

403
00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:52,779
behind your drinking in the first place? Well,

404
00:14:53,259 --> 00:14:55,820
howard as I said, neither my parents really

405
00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:58,235
drank. So it wasn't like us was copying

406
00:14:58,235 --> 00:14:59,915
them, but it it was a pure thing.

407
00:15:00,154 --> 00:15:02,075
I mean, you know, we you reach a

408
00:15:02,075 --> 00:15:03,835
certain age. And when you go out, you're

409
00:15:03,835 --> 00:15:05,375
buying a 6 pack and

410
00:15:05,926 --> 00:15:07,432
you're trying to get someone to buy it

411
00:15:07,432 --> 00:15:09,517
for you in the deli and and you

412
00:15:09,968 --> 00:15:11,316
find a place to drink it. I it

413
00:15:11,316 --> 00:15:12,187
was just almost a,

414
00:15:13,472 --> 00:15:15,699
the culture of my peers, you know, everybody

415
00:15:15,699 --> 00:15:18,006
was drinking beer and and going out and

416
00:15:18,006 --> 00:15:20,049
trying to find bars that would serve you

417
00:15:20,248 --> 00:15:22,316
Did it ease the trauma of losing your

418
00:15:22,316 --> 00:15:23,509
dad when you were 16?

419
00:15:23,986 --> 00:15:26,872
I think I just wanted to escape reality

420
00:15:26,928 --> 00:15:29,647
in any way I could. I lost all

421
00:15:29,647 --> 00:15:30,704
interest in school

422
00:15:31,158 --> 00:15:33,305
after that, barely made it out of high

423
00:15:33,305 --> 00:15:35,213
school. And, you know, with the drinking and

424
00:15:35,213 --> 00:15:37,122
with the drugs. The only thing I really

425
00:15:37,122 --> 00:15:38,338
held on on stayed

426
00:15:38,648 --> 00:15:41,118
pretty serious with was my music, you know.

427
00:15:41,437 --> 00:15:43,907
You mentioned a free fall earlier, why such

428
00:15:43,907 --> 00:15:45,914
a free fall after all the success that

429
00:15:45,914 --> 00:15:48,145
your dad had? Why did things deteriorate? And

430
00:15:48,145 --> 00:15:50,058
how did they deteriorate so quickly in your

431
00:15:50,058 --> 00:15:52,790
family? Well, my father had a very successful

432
00:15:53,167 --> 00:15:53,667
outdoor

433
00:15:53,979 --> 00:15:55,651
water show in the fifties,

434
00:15:56,050 --> 00:15:58,758
and he had Duke El play there in

435
00:15:58,917 --> 00:16:01,625
Cap Call and famous Comedian, and it was

436
00:16:01,625 --> 00:16:03,715
a 8000 seat Arena,

437
00:16:04,274 --> 00:16:05,495
and then

438
00:16:05,795 --> 00:16:07,715
when he stopped that, he he opened up

439
00:16:07,715 --> 00:16:08,855
a very big

440
00:16:09,394 --> 00:16:12,044
expansive restaurant, you know, a lot of catering

441
00:16:12,044 --> 00:16:14,742
and something happened. It was very successful in

442
00:16:14,742 --> 00:16:16,647
the beginning, but then it got... He ran

443
00:16:16,647 --> 00:16:18,870
at a difficult times. I'm not sure exactly

444
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:19,822
why. Mh.

445
00:16:20,394 --> 00:16:22,065
You know, like any business there were the

446
00:16:22,065 --> 00:16:23,896
ups and the downs, and he passed away

447
00:16:23,896 --> 00:16:25,272
when it was set the downsides,

448
00:16:25,806 --> 00:16:27,102
we didn't have anything

449
00:16:28,606 --> 00:16:31,228
And my mother who was totally unprepared to

450
00:16:31,228 --> 00:16:32,896
handle all this. She was the daughter of

451
00:16:32,896 --> 00:16:34,270
an alcoholic and

452
00:16:34,961 --> 00:16:36,732
I think a lot of her reactions

453
00:16:37,106 --> 00:16:39,591
came from that. You know, the fear. You.

454
00:16:39,751 --> 00:16:40,549
How about siblings?

455
00:16:41,028 --> 00:16:43,263
I have a brother, and I had a

456
00:16:43,263 --> 00:16:43,981
have a sister,

457
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:46,855
neither of them are really alcoholic, I would

458
00:16:46,855 --> 00:16:49,347
say. How do they react in that situation?

459
00:16:49,586 --> 00:16:51,205
Well, my sister was 19.

460
00:16:51,584 --> 00:16:52,143
So she...

461
00:16:52,862 --> 00:16:54,480
She had already been kinda shepherd

462
00:16:54,794 --> 00:16:57,214
through into college, she was going to university.

463
00:16:58,154 --> 00:17:00,254
She came home to finish her

464
00:17:00,634 --> 00:17:03,134
schooling there, us, I was 16

465
00:17:03,689 --> 00:17:06,238
and my brother was 13. So and neither

466
00:17:06,238 --> 00:17:06,977
of us

467
00:17:07,433 --> 00:17:09,664
had anyone telling us we should go to

468
00:17:09,664 --> 00:17:11,417
go to college or anything like that. You

469
00:17:11,417 --> 00:17:13,144
know, we were pretty much on our own

470
00:17:13,345 --> 00:17:14,065
at that point.

471
00:17:14,785 --> 00:17:17,025
My mother was just totally Prepared to handle.

472
00:17:17,424 --> 00:17:19,424
You know, my father just job he dropping

473
00:17:19,424 --> 00:17:21,424
on the scene. He was really the magic

474
00:17:21,424 --> 00:17:23,515
man who had kept it together. It sounds

475
00:17:23,515 --> 00:17:26,135
really really a a tragic time in her

476
00:17:26,135 --> 00:17:27,565
life as well as the rest of the

477
00:17:27,565 --> 00:17:30,954
family. It was... She was a 36

478
00:17:31,154 --> 00:17:32,749
or so and 3 kids,

479
00:17:33,387 --> 00:17:35,940
huge debts on her head, and

480
00:17:37,216 --> 00:17:38,731
I don't know how I'm am I'm a

481
00:17:38,731 --> 00:17:40,486
amazed she handled. I have to give her

482
00:17:40,486 --> 00:17:42,495
credit. Kind of for handling it as well

483
00:17:42,495 --> 00:17:44,808
as she did you know. Yeah. Did you

484
00:17:44,808 --> 00:17:47,201
stay on Long Island after you, moved out

485
00:17:47,201 --> 00:17:49,195
of the big house? Yeah. We in fact

486
00:17:49,195 --> 00:17:50,231
stayed in the same town.

487
00:17:51,044 --> 00:17:52,630
Same town. I mean, we went from, like,

488
00:17:52,709 --> 00:17:54,850
the biggest house in that town to the

489
00:17:54,850 --> 00:17:56,460
smallest house in that.

490
00:17:57,070 --> 00:17:58,869
What was that like for you? And and

491
00:17:59,308 --> 00:18:01,220
especially around your peers and people who knew

492
00:18:01,220 --> 00:18:03,531
you and knew your father and knew the

493
00:18:03,531 --> 00:18:06,081
affluent that you had come from. Well, I

494
00:18:06,081 --> 00:18:08,165
think there was certainly a lot of sympathy,

495
00:18:08,324 --> 00:18:09,915
you know, It it was a big event

496
00:18:09,915 --> 00:18:12,301
when my father died in that town. It

497
00:18:12,301 --> 00:18:14,370
was only 48. Mh. And

498
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:17,759
So people are aware of the tragedy

499
00:18:18,059 --> 00:18:18,559
and,

500
00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:21,259
you know, would express that to me.

501
00:18:22,633 --> 00:18:23,982
And then, you know, when I went back

502
00:18:23,982 --> 00:18:25,966
to school, I guess, after taking 2 weeks

503
00:18:25,966 --> 00:18:27,871
over or whatever you do for the funeral

504
00:18:27,871 --> 00:18:30,172
in the burial. You know, my teachers kinda

505
00:18:30,172 --> 00:18:31,935
gave me a ride for a quarter Said,

506
00:18:32,173 --> 00:18:33,685
you know, even though I wasn't working, you

507
00:18:33,685 --> 00:18:35,673
know, still get me passing grades, but by

508
00:18:35,673 --> 00:18:37,026
the end of the year, I was just

509
00:18:37,026 --> 00:18:37,901
failing everything.

510
00:18:38,234 --> 00:18:39,744
So you're a junior in high school at

511
00:18:39,744 --> 00:18:42,129
that point. Exactly. I was a junior in

512
00:18:42,129 --> 00:18:44,434
high school. And by the next... By the

513
00:18:44,434 --> 00:18:46,978
end of my junior year, I was drinking,

514
00:18:47,789 --> 00:18:49,710
quite a bit, I think and early into

515
00:18:49,710 --> 00:18:52,109
my senior year started smoking marijuana, and I

516
00:18:52,109 --> 00:18:52,509
was really...

517
00:18:53,230 --> 00:18:54,669
1 of the few people doing that. I

518
00:18:54,669 --> 00:18:56,404
mean, this was 19 66

519
00:18:56,524 --> 00:18:59,625
So, you know? Mh. My guidance counselor called

520
00:18:59,625 --> 00:19:01,056
me a hip, and I had never heard

521
00:19:01,056 --> 00:19:03,362
that word before, You know, that's how long

522
00:19:03,362 --> 00:19:05,527
ago that was and the war was going

523
00:19:05,527 --> 00:19:07,759
on at that point too. The war was

524
00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:10,950
going on, and I was ripe for the

525
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:11,269
draft.

526
00:19:11,987 --> 00:19:13,741
I did get a a deferral.

527
00:19:14,632 --> 00:19:17,098
When I had those panic attacks after,

528
00:19:17,973 --> 00:19:20,837
after my drug use, my psychiatrist, he wrote

529
00:19:20,837 --> 00:19:23,004
a note and he said it I was

530
00:19:23,004 --> 00:19:24,860
suffering from spells of dis.

531
00:19:25,635 --> 00:19:27,709
Mh. And I guess for the military to

532
00:19:27,709 --> 00:19:29,064
think that I could be there in the

533
00:19:29,064 --> 00:19:31,571
jungle with a rifle and not get disoriented

534
00:19:31,707 --> 00:19:33,138
about who I was supposed to shoot at.

535
00:19:34,411 --> 00:19:36,557
They they gave me a defer. That was

536
00:19:36,557 --> 00:19:38,330
1 of the great states of my life

537
00:19:38,704 --> 00:19:40,789
when I got that defer. Must been a

538
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:42,070
lot of fear that you would end up

539
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:44,470
in the army. That was tremendous fear that

540
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:45,990
I would end up in the army. Yeah.

541
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:47,269
And also,

542
00:19:47,764 --> 00:19:49,119
I did... I don't think I wanted to

543
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,270
leave my family, and you know, we were

544
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:53,422
just kinda clinging onto each other, you know,

545
00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:54,856
after what happened.

546
00:19:55,349 --> 00:19:57,184
So what happens after high school and when

547
00:19:57,184 --> 00:19:59,018
what was the trajectory at that point?

548
00:19:59,736 --> 00:20:01,889
It's kind of an interesting story. In 19

549
00:20:01,889 --> 00:20:02,687
71,

550
00:20:03,006 --> 00:20:04,442
I had a friend who had been to

551
00:20:04,442 --> 00:20:04,681
europe.

552
00:20:05,255 --> 00:20:07,015
A few times, and he convinced me to

553
00:20:07,015 --> 00:20:09,414
take a trip to Europe with him, and

554
00:20:09,414 --> 00:20:11,575
not had another buddy, and my sister was

555
00:20:11,575 --> 00:20:13,994
a steward on Pan am. So I gotta

556
00:20:14,229 --> 00:20:16,776
you know, a family discount ticket, and I

557
00:20:16,776 --> 00:20:20,198
went to Europe and man, that trip, it

558
00:20:20,198 --> 00:20:22,586
was the first time I felt that weight

559
00:20:22,586 --> 00:20:23,222
of the grief.

560
00:20:24,033 --> 00:20:25,942
Leave me. You know, this was a... The

561
00:20:25,942 --> 00:20:28,327
old world became my new world. And I

562
00:20:28,487 --> 00:20:29,918
I just loved it. And I think that

563
00:20:29,918 --> 00:20:31,588
has lot to do with why I'm still

564
00:20:31,588 --> 00:20:32,088
here

565
00:20:32,399 --> 00:20:34,869
why I moved here eventually. Mh. I you

566
00:20:34,869 --> 00:20:35,528
know, went

567
00:20:36,144 --> 00:20:39,570
amsterdam in Brussels and at Paris and Rome

568
00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:41,261
as spent a lot of time in Rome

569
00:20:41,261 --> 00:20:42,777
did a bit part in a full leaning

570
00:20:42,777 --> 00:20:45,012
movie even. But I knew I wanted to

571
00:20:45,012 --> 00:20:47,007
be a musician, and I came back to

572
00:20:47,247 --> 00:20:47,747
America

573
00:20:48,379 --> 00:20:50,928
went to San Francisco, and then I would

574
00:20:50,928 --> 00:20:52,463
play a lot the open mic

575
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,230
clubs there, where you didn't get paid, but

576
00:20:55,230 --> 00:20:56,903
you could drink as much did you wanted

577
00:20:56,903 --> 00:20:57,062
to.

578
00:20:58,194 --> 00:21:00,911
And at which I would do, after 1

579
00:21:00,911 --> 00:21:02,110
of those nights,

580
00:21:02,749 --> 00:21:04,747
the next morning got, the girl Was living

581
00:21:04,747 --> 00:21:06,505
with I woke up, and she said Yelling

582
00:21:06,505 --> 00:21:08,279
hear yellow. And I thought I just had

583
00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:10,599
a really bad hang. And I finally went

584
00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:12,279
to the hospital, and they said I I

585
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:14,519
was drawn as I had a see or

586
00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:15,480
caused by alcohol.

587
00:21:16,453 --> 00:21:19,165
Was alcohol. It wasn't the hepatitis, the serious

588
00:21:19,165 --> 00:21:21,558
1, but I I did have a a

589
00:21:21,558 --> 00:21:23,791
liver and hepatitis, and I had to go

590
00:21:23,791 --> 00:21:25,705
back... Hepatitis c is was that the 1

591
00:21:25,705 --> 00:21:27,315
that you I guess that's the 1 if

592
00:21:27,315 --> 00:21:30,344
that's the the least serious. But I was

593
00:21:30,344 --> 00:21:32,974
so sick, and I went back to to

594
00:21:33,054 --> 00:21:35,063
New York to get better. At which I

595
00:21:35,063 --> 00:21:36,739
did, and my doctor told me,

596
00:21:37,378 --> 00:21:40,012
listen, you cannot drink for a year. Mh.

597
00:21:40,172 --> 00:21:42,088
Or to could take any drugs because your

598
00:21:42,088 --> 00:21:45,206
liver couldn't handle it. In fact, another girl

599
00:21:45,206 --> 00:21:47,452
who I I think also got the same

600
00:21:47,508 --> 00:21:50,127
hepatitis as I had in San Francisco. She

601
00:21:50,127 --> 00:21:52,135
was in the hospital with an and

602
00:21:52,764 --> 00:21:55,262
got bored and took some pills and died

603
00:21:55,401 --> 00:21:58,837
because her liver couldn't handle. So the amazing

604
00:21:58,837 --> 00:22:00,595
thing, Howard us, in that year,

605
00:22:01,329 --> 00:22:02,207
of not drinking.

606
00:22:02,845 --> 00:22:04,121
I got a band together.

607
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:07,232
I started playing in New York. I started

608
00:22:07,232 --> 00:22:10,033
knocking on doors of record companies. I got

609
00:22:10,033 --> 00:22:13,053
a record contract. I recorded my first album.

610
00:22:13,609 --> 00:22:15,436
It came out and boom.

611
00:22:16,088 --> 00:22:19,120
My picture was rolling stone and News week

612
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:19,599
magazine.

613
00:22:20,158 --> 00:22:22,072
I mean, my dreams have come true. While

614
00:22:22,072 --> 00:22:22,950
you were not drinking,

615
00:22:23,363 --> 00:22:23,601
Yeah.

616
00:22:24,236 --> 00:22:26,220
Not drinking for this year. Did you ever

617
00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:27,093
put the 2 together?

618
00:22:27,966 --> 00:22:30,427
Not at that time. No. Not at.

619
00:22:31,078 --> 00:22:32,913
In fact, I really ashamed of it because,

620
00:22:32,993 --> 00:22:35,465
you know, every... All my heroes were drinking

621
00:22:35,465 --> 00:22:37,938
and taking drugs, You know? I wanted to

622
00:22:37,938 --> 00:22:39,772
be a rolling stone, You know, I wanted

623
00:22:40,251 --> 00:22:42,335
was that fear for your liver then? What

624
00:22:42,335 --> 00:22:45,039
was was it the medical diagnosis that scared

625
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:46,789
you out of doing anything for that year

626
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:48,936
in which so many good things happened to

627
00:22:48,936 --> 00:22:51,018
you? First of all, I don't think my

628
00:22:51,018 --> 00:22:53,164
alcoholism had gotten to the point where I

629
00:22:53,164 --> 00:22:55,310
couldn't stop. I was able to control it

630
00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:56,661
like that first thing. U.

631
00:22:57,154 --> 00:22:58,670
I think I was pretty scared because I

632
00:22:58,670 --> 00:23:00,266
was so sick. I was as sickest as

633
00:23:00,425 --> 00:23:02,181
I'd ever been in my life. And then,

634
00:23:02,979 --> 00:23:04,829
like I've said, I had this love for

635
00:23:04,829 --> 00:23:06,980
the music, and I was motivated and I

636
00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:09,529
was writing songs, and I was writing songs

637
00:23:09,529 --> 00:23:11,760
about my story kind of with my family.

638
00:23:12,094 --> 00:23:14,008
I think that's why that first album it

639
00:23:14,008 --> 00:23:16,082
got so much attention. Mh. Because it was

640
00:23:16,082 --> 00:23:16,960
almost like sharing.

641
00:23:17,518 --> 00:23:19,193
You know, it was kinda cath pathetic too.

642
00:23:19,352 --> 00:23:21,960
How bad. It was very cath pathetic. But

643
00:23:22,158 --> 00:23:24,624
Then once that year was up, kinda, you

644
00:23:24,624 --> 00:23:26,374
know, that there wasn't like a day than

645
00:23:26,454 --> 00:23:27,988
I began, but then I started

646
00:23:28,442 --> 00:23:30,448
pretty much drinking again, and I would have

647
00:23:30,448 --> 00:23:32,360
to do... I did a lot of interviews

648
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,591
in those early days. Mh. A lot of

649
00:23:34,591 --> 00:23:35,626
them more over lunch.

650
00:23:36,199 --> 00:23:38,113
And I found if I drank a few

651
00:23:38,113 --> 00:23:39,331
scotch before

652
00:23:39,709 --> 00:23:42,022
started talking. I thought my interviews were more

653
00:23:42,022 --> 00:23:44,414
interesting. Mh. So I would start drinking at

654
00:23:44,414 --> 00:23:44,733
lunch,

655
00:23:46,503 --> 00:23:48,498
those interviews then I started going on the

656
00:23:48,498 --> 00:23:50,972
road and touring. And I found, you know,

657
00:23:51,052 --> 00:23:52,488
if I had a bottle of Jack daniels

658
00:23:52,488 --> 00:23:53,526
is in the dressing room.

659
00:23:54,179 --> 00:23:56,015
That would help things soon loosen me up

660
00:23:56,015 --> 00:23:58,729
on stage. What was your thinking there elliot?

661
00:23:58,968 --> 00:24:01,362
When when you... When you started drinking again

662
00:24:01,362 --> 00:24:03,288
after that year of not, because of what

663
00:24:03,288 --> 00:24:05,586
your doctor said and because of having the

664
00:24:05,586 --> 00:24:07,092
john is and being so sick.

665
00:24:07,806 --> 00:24:09,653
What thoughts went through your mind

666
00:24:10,518 --> 00:24:12,432
before you took that drink or the first

667
00:24:12,432 --> 00:24:14,985
few drinks that let it be okay that

668
00:24:14,985 --> 00:24:16,341
you were drinking? I mean, what were you

669
00:24:16,341 --> 00:24:18,973
telling yourself about your liver that allowed you

670
00:24:18,973 --> 00:24:19,930
to take those drinks?

671
00:24:20,898 --> 00:24:22,906
That's an interesting question because

672
00:24:23,517 --> 00:24:25,184
I'm sharing at a meeting the other night,

673
00:24:25,898 --> 00:24:27,565
and the guy who was sharing us talking

674
00:24:27,565 --> 00:24:28,359
about how he.

675
00:24:29,169 --> 00:24:31,005
He was into fashion, and he had gotten

676
00:24:31,005 --> 00:24:32,840
his dream job and moved to New York

677
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,277
city and then blew everything.

678
00:24:34,916 --> 00:24:37,071
And I, you know, in my 39 years,

679
00:24:37,804 --> 00:24:40,778
I think I've heard more stories of people

680
00:24:40,836 --> 00:24:42,533
who couldn't handle success

681
00:24:42,990 --> 00:24:44,826
and that fueled their drinking.

682
00:24:45,399 --> 00:24:47,868
And that viewed their drug abuse. Mh. And

683
00:24:47,948 --> 00:24:49,303
I think at the point where I started

684
00:24:49,303 --> 00:24:52,113
getting successful, and I could drink again

685
00:24:52,584 --> 00:24:54,578
I was so nervous about it, And so

686
00:24:54,578 --> 00:24:57,529
anxious about it. And so who was I

687
00:24:57,529 --> 00:24:59,603
supposed to be? You know, they were calling

688
00:24:59,603 --> 00:25:01,517
me the new Bob dylan? Who was I

689
00:25:01,517 --> 00:25:03,841
supposed to be? Mh So I think the

690
00:25:03,841 --> 00:25:05,375
2 kind of dovetail

691
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:07,762
each other, and I just found that

692
00:25:08,614 --> 00:25:09,114
alcohol

693
00:25:09,583 --> 00:25:12,284
kinda helped me know I thought I was

694
00:25:12,284 --> 00:25:13,555
supposed to be. And

695
00:25:14,429 --> 00:25:16,549
at that time, I got involved some very

696
00:25:16,828 --> 00:25:19,298
powered management company. They were managing Darrell Smith

697
00:25:19,298 --> 00:25:21,529
and a lot of other Great Acts. And

698
00:25:22,405 --> 00:25:24,795
I remember them saying to me, Elliott just

699
00:25:24,795 --> 00:25:27,540
don't do 2 things don't get divorced

700
00:25:27,916 --> 00:25:29,030
because then you have to give your a

701
00:25:29,030 --> 00:25:29,530
wife

702
00:25:30,065 --> 00:25:33,327
you got and don't don't get into cocaine.

703
00:25:34,296 --> 00:25:36,041
And, of course, I did both those things

704
00:25:36,041 --> 00:25:37,548
out. Did they know that you had the

705
00:25:37,548 --> 00:25:39,847
liver issue? No. No. Not really. Did you

706
00:25:39,847 --> 00:25:41,433
have anybody at that time who you had

707
00:25:41,433 --> 00:25:43,196
to be too or you felt like you

708
00:25:43,196 --> 00:25:45,820
needed to be accountable too? Very interesting question.

709
00:25:46,059 --> 00:25:49,160
I did not. I really lacked a father

710
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,227
figure in every way. Yeah.

711
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:53,897
And my mother was just not

712
00:25:54,835 --> 00:25:55,874
not really capable.

713
00:25:56,753 --> 00:25:57,472
And, you know,

714
00:25:58,351 --> 00:26:00,362
things were happening for me. So, you know,

715
00:26:00,521 --> 00:26:01,956
who's gonna tell me I'm doing it wrong

716
00:26:01,956 --> 00:26:03,311
at that time. You know? So you're a

717
00:26:03,311 --> 00:26:05,223
young guy who had all these problems with

718
00:26:05,223 --> 00:26:07,296
his liver, You're healthy again,

719
00:26:07,869 --> 00:26:10,498
It's okay to drink. You've having all the

720
00:26:10,498 --> 00:26:12,410
success. How about what you were being told

721
00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:14,083
by the people around you. What what I've...

722
00:26:14,322 --> 00:26:16,314
I've interviewed quite a number of musicians for

723
00:26:16,314 --> 00:26:16,973
the podcast.

724
00:26:17,682 --> 00:26:19,665
Over the hundred and 50 interviews I've done.

725
00:26:19,903 --> 00:26:22,046
And 1 of the questions I always like

726
00:26:22,046 --> 00:26:24,029
to ask is about the enabling that goes

727
00:26:24,029 --> 00:26:24,529
on

728
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,539
around the people who are handling

729
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:29,579
the musician or the people who are

730
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:31,960
going on the road with them or the

731
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,870
people at the the record companies or whatever,

732
00:26:35,726 --> 00:26:38,358
doing all the enabling that makes it particularly

733
00:26:38,358 --> 00:26:41,650
difficult to stop, especially if those people are

734
00:26:41,948 --> 00:26:46,104
addicted and have alcoholism too. Well, I have

735
00:26:46,104 --> 00:26:48,333
to say honestly, I can't really put the

736
00:26:48,333 --> 00:26:51,174
blame on the music business. I don't think

737
00:26:51,693 --> 00:26:53,151
anyone who was in a

738
00:26:53,848 --> 00:26:54,348
responsible

739
00:26:54,806 --> 00:26:57,519
position either at a record company, or management,

740
00:26:58,477 --> 00:27:01,537
encouraged me to drink take drugs, honestly.

741
00:27:02,308 --> 00:27:05,088
I think I gravitate toward the people who

742
00:27:05,088 --> 00:27:05,588
would

743
00:27:05,961 --> 00:27:08,042
who would wanna get high with me. And

744
00:27:08,042 --> 00:27:08,542
then

745
00:27:09,075 --> 00:27:11,461
my road, which Always led toward the music,

746
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:12,676
it kinda started

747
00:27:13,369 --> 00:27:14,164
diverting toward,

748
00:27:15,118 --> 00:27:16,390
let's get high, you know.

749
00:27:17,439 --> 00:27:19,190
And the music enabled me to do that

750
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:21,020
because of my my career and the money

751
00:27:21,099 --> 00:27:23,089
I was making and that everything else, but

752
00:27:23,248 --> 00:27:24,225
I can't really

753
00:27:25,014 --> 00:27:26,687
blame it on the music, but in fact,

754
00:27:26,926 --> 00:27:28,998
if anything, I think I need I needed

755
00:27:28,998 --> 00:27:29,977
to make amend

756
00:27:30,513 --> 00:27:32,640
to the music business because I had such

757
00:27:32,919 --> 00:27:35,868
tremendous opportunities, and I wasn't responsible with them,

758
00:27:36,027 --> 00:27:37,143
You know. I remember once

759
00:27:37,861 --> 00:27:39,614
when I signed to Columbia records,

760
00:27:40,252 --> 00:27:42,742
they held the luncheon for me at a

761
00:27:42,742 --> 00:27:45,000
21, which is a very famous

762
00:27:45,459 --> 00:27:48,096
upscale restaurant in New York City. And I've

763
00:27:48,096 --> 00:27:49,235
been up doing coke

764
00:27:50,027 --> 00:27:51,621
until an hour before I got to the

765
00:27:51,621 --> 00:27:53,056
lunch, you know? When I got to the

766
00:27:53,056 --> 00:27:54,809
lunch, and I was just a basket case.

767
00:27:55,207 --> 00:27:56,801
And when I had to make a speech,

768
00:27:57,453 --> 00:27:58,881
I don't know what I ba out, and

769
00:27:58,961 --> 00:28:00,969
I just to looked at these guys faces

770
00:28:01,024 --> 00:28:03,484
they're thinking, you know, we're investing a million

771
00:28:03,484 --> 00:28:05,809
dollars in this... Mh. It it's

772
00:28:06,118 --> 00:28:08,101
So I didn't get too much enabling. I

773
00:28:08,101 --> 00:28:09,688
mean, let's face it in rock and roll.

774
00:28:09,846 --> 00:28:11,274
It's sex and drugs and rock and roll.

775
00:28:11,433 --> 00:28:13,352
So no 1 was telling me not to

776
00:28:13,352 --> 00:28:14,942
drink I'm not to take drugs, You know,

777
00:28:15,022 --> 00:28:16,874
and there's so many examples of

778
00:28:17,725 --> 00:28:20,031
successful artists you know, drinking and drug. There

779
00:28:20,031 --> 00:28:22,019
are many more examples. I think they... There

780
00:28:22,019 --> 00:28:24,503
would not as known of those who fell

781
00:28:24,503 --> 00:28:27,054
by the wayside because of their addictions in

782
00:28:27,054 --> 00:28:28,887
alcohol something. Did you feel like the drug

783
00:28:28,887 --> 00:28:31,692
usage, either the marijuana or the cocaine or

784
00:28:31,692 --> 00:28:33,924
anything else that you were doing was actually

785
00:28:33,924 --> 00:28:36,475
sharpening up your your song writing and you're

786
00:28:36,475 --> 00:28:39,677
singing? You know, not at all. Really? I

787
00:28:39,677 --> 00:28:41,664
don't think I ever wrote songs,

788
00:28:42,221 --> 00:28:42,380
drunk.

789
00:28:43,572 --> 00:28:46,037
I don't think I ever hardly performed I.

790
00:28:46,275 --> 00:28:48,605
I might take a you know, 1 drink

791
00:28:48,605 --> 00:28:49,484
a shot jack,

792
00:28:50,204 --> 00:28:52,365
but I never went on stage drunk. I

793
00:28:52,365 --> 00:28:54,125
never did coke during a show.

794
00:28:55,494 --> 00:28:57,638
Until they let the end days, when things

795
00:28:57,638 --> 00:28:59,543
were really bad. Why not? You're able to

796
00:28:59,543 --> 00:29:02,004
do everything else drunken in stone, why not

797
00:29:02,004 --> 00:29:02,242
perform?

798
00:29:02,892 --> 00:29:04,026
I think because

799
00:29:04,557 --> 00:29:06,935
I respected the music that much, you know.

800
00:29:07,173 --> 00:29:09,234
Mh. I knew when it was good and

801
00:29:09,234 --> 00:29:10,027
when it was bad.

802
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:11,878
I knew when I was playing good and

803
00:29:11,878 --> 00:29:14,035
not playing well, and I knew when I

804
00:29:14,035 --> 00:29:16,133
was writing a song, and honestly,

805
00:29:16,672 --> 00:29:18,910
those early albums I did, and I've made

806
00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:21,877
it over 40 albums. But. Those early albums

807
00:29:21,877 --> 00:29:22,696
have really

808
00:29:23,074 --> 00:29:24,591
the test of time, and I think it's

809
00:29:24,591 --> 00:29:26,665
because of that. I think it's because of

810
00:29:26,665 --> 00:29:28,594
that. Somewhere along the way you drew the

811
00:29:28,594 --> 00:29:31,644
you drew the connection between the use of

812
00:29:31,702 --> 00:29:34,333
alcohol and drugs and its effect on you

813
00:29:34,333 --> 00:29:35,231
as a

814
00:29:35,860 --> 00:29:38,717
professional musician and song writer. I did not

815
00:29:38,717 --> 00:29:40,701
make the connection until I went to my

816
00:29:40,701 --> 00:29:43,557
first Aa meeting, and that was a Eureka

817
00:29:43,557 --> 00:29:45,406
moment. Yeah. That was, like, whoa,

818
00:29:46,204 --> 00:29:49,637
alcohol. This is it. If I don't drink,

819
00:29:50,036 --> 00:29:52,805
I'm gonna be okay. They're telling me. And

820
00:29:53,242 --> 00:29:55,548
you know, I have a very big ego.

821
00:29:55,707 --> 00:29:57,957
Mh. Hopefully, sobriety has

822
00:29:58,331 --> 00:30:00,796
deflate it a little bit, but when I

823
00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:02,466
arrived at that first Sa meeting,

824
00:30:03,196 --> 00:30:05,365
where I was in life, I was so

825
00:30:05,580 --> 00:30:07,407
disappointed where It was... I mean, sometimes I'd

826
00:30:07,407 --> 00:30:09,313
be driving a truck for a hundred dollars

827
00:30:09,313 --> 00:30:10,664
to move some bands equipment.

828
00:30:11,634 --> 00:30:12,672
Because I'd be so broke.

829
00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:13,789
And

830
00:30:14,348 --> 00:30:17,164
I was so disappointed that I had lost

831
00:30:17,222 --> 00:30:19,538
all faith in my own decision making ability.

832
00:30:19,697 --> 00:30:21,109
So I was really ready

833
00:30:22,108 --> 00:30:23,067
I had been humble,

834
00:30:23,707 --> 00:30:26,024
really humbled at that point. You know. Yeah.

835
00:30:26,504 --> 00:30:26,903
And

836
00:30:27,702 --> 00:30:29,780
I was ready to take all the suggestions.

837
00:30:30,513 --> 00:30:32,821
All the advice. I was ready to go

838
00:30:32,821 --> 00:30:34,254
all in into aa.

839
00:30:34,811 --> 00:30:36,801
Can you take a second and talk to

840
00:30:36,801 --> 00:30:40,072
me about the slide? From being very successful

841
00:30:40,072 --> 00:30:42,293
during that period of time till the... You

842
00:30:42,293 --> 00:30:44,197
ended up in a a, obviously, it's not

843
00:30:44,197 --> 00:30:46,833
an overnight happening, But when did that success,

844
00:30:46,993 --> 00:30:49,307
and everything you were enjoying, go south on

845
00:30:49,307 --> 00:30:50,983
you and you started go into that slide.

846
00:30:51,223 --> 00:30:52,420
What was that like And how long did

847
00:30:52,420 --> 00:30:52,819
it take?

848
00:30:53,617 --> 00:30:54,277
I think

849
00:30:55,069 --> 00:30:56,126
it took about

850
00:30:56,502 --> 00:30:58,572
10 years, I guess, About 10 year. My

851
00:30:58,572 --> 00:31:00,881
my my drinking and drug career was about

852
00:31:00,881 --> 00:31:04,238
20 years. Mh. I think Time must. 25

853
00:31:04,238 --> 00:31:05,985
till I was 35. I got sober at

854
00:31:05,985 --> 00:31:06,620
35.

855
00:31:07,335 --> 00:31:08,073
I felt

856
00:31:08,764 --> 00:31:10,670
when I lost interest in touring.

857
00:31:11,305 --> 00:31:12,519
I would stop tours

858
00:31:12,829 --> 00:31:14,984
you know, I would I'd make some excuse,

859
00:31:15,143 --> 00:31:16,500
but I think I just really wanted to

860
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:18,256
be at home getting high. I don't think

861
00:31:18,256 --> 00:31:20,650
it affected my... A chops as a musician.

862
00:31:20,984 --> 00:31:24,086
But it really affected my decision making ability.

863
00:31:24,324 --> 00:31:27,028
I made so many bad decisions. I had

864
00:31:27,028 --> 00:31:29,199
so many resentment against people before

865
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:32,250
I would quit things and fire people and

866
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:35,029
drop the ball, you know, I had halfway

867
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:35,269
through

868
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:38,799
almost all of my early albums. I did

869
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:40,713
something to sabotage them. You know, this...

870
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:43,983
I believe this is a self destructive disease

871
00:31:43,983 --> 00:31:46,376
and it manifest itself in so many ways.

872
00:31:47,028 --> 00:31:48,242
And that's how minuses

873
00:31:48,774 --> 00:31:50,679
itself in my career. I would I had

874
00:31:50,679 --> 00:31:52,608
no patience. I wanted

875
00:31:54,092 --> 00:31:54,592
immediate

876
00:31:55,203 --> 00:31:56,970
gratification, you know, I was not willing to

877
00:31:56,970 --> 00:31:59,442
put in the time necessary, you know, to

878
00:31:59,442 --> 00:32:01,356
get to the Bruce springs scene level. Did

879
00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:03,349
you have anybody in your life at that

880
00:32:03,349 --> 00:32:06,235
time, Elliott who... You pulled you aside,

881
00:32:06,873 --> 00:32:09,505
noticing your behavior noticing the decline,

882
00:32:10,064 --> 00:32:11,898
say anything to you about it or were

883
00:32:11,898 --> 00:32:14,610
you imp to what people were talking about.

884
00:32:15,261 --> 00:32:17,726
I think I wasn't imp, but I think

885
00:32:17,806 --> 00:32:19,157
I was 1 point I remember I was

886
00:32:19,157 --> 00:32:21,224
out out on the end of Long island

887
00:32:21,224 --> 00:32:23,530
and my sister was there, and she said

888
00:32:23,530 --> 00:32:26,095
to me god, you I never saw anyone

889
00:32:26,095 --> 00:32:26,595
drink

890
00:32:27,132 --> 00:32:30,880
so much so quickly as you. Mh. But

891
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,715
I was almost proud of it, You know,

892
00:32:32,954 --> 00:32:35,674
my heroes were all out now. F Scott

893
00:32:35,674 --> 00:32:36,150
fitzgerald,

894
00:32:37,657 --> 00:32:39,640
you know, he was my main man as

895
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,258
a writer. So, you know, I didn't see

896
00:32:42,258 --> 00:32:44,104
what the problem was, you know, I was

897
00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:47,292
I was running on fumes, but I didn't

898
00:32:47,292 --> 00:32:49,045
know it. And your liver, how was your

899
00:32:49,045 --> 00:32:51,367
liver doing through all this? Problem My liver

900
00:32:51,367 --> 00:32:53,273
seemed to have recovered. I've never had any

901
00:32:53,273 --> 00:32:55,813
problems with my liver through through those years.

902
00:32:57,163 --> 00:32:59,148
But, you know, I was very susceptible.

903
00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:02,374
To the effects of alcohol and drugs very

904
00:33:02,432 --> 00:33:05,385
susceptible. It didn't take much. Mh. To

905
00:33:06,263 --> 00:33:08,430
to have its effect on the, they they

906
00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:10,415
said Jim Morrison was that way. The doors,

907
00:33:10,574 --> 00:33:12,480
he'd had 1 drink and he just turned

908
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,466
into a different person. I I felt that

909
00:33:14,466 --> 00:33:16,869
was always that way with me. So your

910
00:33:16,869 --> 00:33:18,707
attitude changed to when you were drinking, didn't

911
00:33:18,707 --> 00:33:21,024
it? My attitude changed a lot.

912
00:33:22,063 --> 00:33:23,581
I thought I was skiing in the universe,

913
00:33:23,661 --> 00:33:24,540
and I knew it all.

914
00:33:25,354 --> 00:33:26,872
How did that play out amongst the people

915
00:33:26,872 --> 00:33:27,432
you were around?

916
00:33:28,071 --> 00:33:29,908
Well, as long as I was on top

917
00:33:29,908 --> 00:33:32,465
and paying salaries and doing things like that

918
00:33:32,465 --> 00:33:34,868
and make money for everybody that played out

919
00:33:34,868 --> 00:33:35,584
pretty well. Yeah.

920
00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:38,449
But when the when the mighty have fallen,

921
00:33:38,847 --> 00:33:39,324
you know,

922
00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:40,916
you're alone.

923
00:33:41,950 --> 00:33:43,244
Getting we'll be right back.

924
00:33:44,044 --> 00:33:47,005
My friends, if you're enjoying Aa recovery interviews,

925
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927
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928
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929
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944
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945
00:34:32,494 --> 00:34:33,369
And we're back.

946
00:34:34,405 --> 00:34:37,592
When did the decline start to get severe

947
00:34:37,592 --> 00:34:39,518
for you? And the in the years before

948
00:34:39,518 --> 00:34:41,666
you hit Aa. Was it was it gradual

949
00:34:41,666 --> 00:34:42,859
all way up to the end or was

950
00:34:42,859 --> 00:34:44,768
there a point at which you had a

951
00:34:44,768 --> 00:34:47,804
tendency to just drop off before Well, I

952
00:34:47,884 --> 00:34:50,823
I did a tour of Japan in 79,

953
00:34:51,141 --> 00:34:52,729
I think, and then I came back to

954
00:34:53,444 --> 00:34:54,080
New York.

955
00:34:55,446 --> 00:34:57,197
And for some reason, I decided I had

956
00:34:57,197 --> 00:34:58,493
to fire my management,

957
00:34:58,868 --> 00:35:00,778
and I had to do this on my

958
00:35:00,778 --> 00:35:01,414
own, and

959
00:35:02,130 --> 00:35:03,903
and I could do that. And

960
00:35:04,453 --> 00:35:05,963
very quickly after that,

961
00:35:07,315 --> 00:35:08,530
you know, I went from

962
00:35:09,063 --> 00:35:10,733
in the early days of my career living

963
00:35:10,733 --> 00:35:12,959
in the Beverly So tell for months of

964
00:35:12,959 --> 00:35:13,459
time

965
00:35:13,768 --> 00:35:16,091
to living out a c in my mother's

966
00:35:17,176 --> 00:35:19,396
kitchen. Mh. And that was the point. So

967
00:35:19,554 --> 00:35:20,609
I went into kinda

968
00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:23,463
to you know, between 80 and 85 the

969
00:35:23,463 --> 00:35:25,374
less 5 years of my drinking.

970
00:35:26,648 --> 00:35:28,081
I was kind of in limbo. You know?

971
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,487
I would still had a a public in

972
00:35:30,646 --> 00:35:32,799
Europe that I could go to. Sure. And

973
00:35:32,958 --> 00:35:34,713
I would tour over here through a few

974
00:35:34,713 --> 00:35:35,430
times a year,

975
00:35:36,227 --> 00:35:38,141
play some shows over here, and

976
00:35:39,114 --> 00:35:41,351
I didn't... I was kinda kept myself in

977
00:35:41,351 --> 00:35:42,790
good shape for those shows. I don't know

978
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:43,909
how I did it, but

979
00:35:45,027 --> 00:35:47,425
but those last 5 years was a serious,

980
00:35:48,157 --> 00:35:50,220
decline nobody was interested in me in the

981
00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:52,045
music business. I mean, I couldn't get arrested.

982
00:35:52,283 --> 00:35:54,823
For 5 years. Yeah. Talk to me about

983
00:35:54,823 --> 00:35:56,251
being a functional alcoholic.

984
00:35:57,139 --> 00:35:59,200
And how that might have helped or hindered

985
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,340
you in life and in your career. I

986
00:36:01,340 --> 00:36:03,877
think it hindered me because I did not

987
00:36:03,877 --> 00:36:06,443
hit. That physical bottom, Mh. Which a lot

988
00:36:06,443 --> 00:36:08,676
of people talk about. You know, I I

989
00:36:08,676 --> 00:36:09,176
definitely

990
00:36:09,952 --> 00:36:11,489
hit the spiritual bottom

991
00:36:11,866 --> 00:36:13,222
hard. Mh. You know,

992
00:36:14,353 --> 00:36:16,424
and and the mental bottom. You know, I

993
00:36:16,424 --> 00:36:17,561
when I would be up

994
00:36:18,255 --> 00:36:20,326
for a few days binge binging on coke

995
00:36:20,326 --> 00:36:21,441
and and alcohol,

996
00:36:22,396 --> 00:36:22,715
I guess,

997
00:36:23,448 --> 00:36:23,948
really

998
00:36:24,326 --> 00:36:26,721
psychotic. I mean, hearing voices outside my door.

999
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,674
Mh. Rolling along on a carpet thinking someone's

1000
00:36:29,674 --> 00:36:31,691
out there. I mean, the... This is really

1001
00:36:32,324 --> 00:36:34,322
Like this is why that second step is

1002
00:36:34,322 --> 00:36:35,061
so important

1003
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,997
because I really believe I was insane. Yeah.

1004
00:36:38,716 --> 00:36:40,646
When I came in here but I didn't

1005
00:36:40,646 --> 00:36:42,498
have that physical bottom. So,

1006
00:36:43,112 --> 00:36:45,100
you know, I'd go in these benches,

1007
00:36:47,104 --> 00:36:48,217
And then I'd recover,

1008
00:36:48,694 --> 00:36:50,522
and, you know, I guess I looked almost

1009
00:36:50,522 --> 00:36:52,827
normal to people. Yeah. And

1010
00:36:53,543 --> 00:36:54,418
until the next time.

1011
00:36:55,069 --> 00:36:56,907
That's how I was a functioning alcohol. Okay.

1012
00:36:57,067 --> 00:36:57,627
Know, I could...

1013
00:36:58,505 --> 00:37:00,604
I I could maintain, I could drink

1014
00:37:01,463 --> 00:37:03,780
every day and it it didn't seem to...

1015
00:37:04,913 --> 00:37:07,147
I didn't land in the hospital. Sometimes being

1016
00:37:07,147 --> 00:37:09,621
a functional alcoholic is the greatest hindrance for

1017
00:37:09,621 --> 00:37:12,335
getting sober. I can stop when I want,

1018
00:37:12,909 --> 00:37:14,602
even though I'm stopping between,

1019
00:37:15,454 --> 00:37:17,284
so that must prove that I don't have

1020
00:37:17,284 --> 00:37:19,512
the problem that I need that I ultimately

1021
00:37:19,512 --> 00:37:21,262
find out I need Aa 4.

1022
00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:23,742
You're so right. I mean, I did not

1023
00:37:23,742 --> 00:37:25,492
think I had a problem with alcohol really?

1024
00:37:25,730 --> 00:37:26,628
And I remember

1025
00:37:27,003 --> 00:37:29,308
at 1 of my early meetings in Milwaukee.

1026
00:37:30,359 --> 00:37:32,199
This old timer or a woman came up

1027
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:33,400
to me. And she she said,

1028
00:37:34,359 --> 00:37:35,799
I had just shared or told my story.

1029
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:36,839
She said, you know,

1030
00:37:37,734 --> 00:37:39,725
you're lucky you got into that cocaine.

1031
00:37:40,601 --> 00:37:43,172
I said, why is that? She said, because

1032
00:37:43,230 --> 00:37:46,269
from what I hear you, Your alcoholism might

1033
00:37:46,269 --> 00:37:47,860
not have caught up with you for another

1034
00:37:47,860 --> 00:37:49,768
10 years or so. But that cocaine and

1035
00:37:49,768 --> 00:37:52,233
really greased your slide. That was how she

1036
00:37:52,233 --> 00:37:54,390
put it. Grease my ride to the bottom.

1037
00:37:54,628 --> 00:37:54,787
Yeah.

1038
00:37:56,453 --> 00:37:58,460
I've heard that from so many people and

1039
00:37:58,594 --> 00:38:00,577
some of the professionals that I know,

1040
00:38:01,148 --> 00:38:03,689
who deal with drug addicts and alcoholic all

1041
00:38:03,689 --> 00:38:04,086
the time,

1042
00:38:04,801 --> 00:38:07,183
say that the drugs take people down so

1043
00:38:07,183 --> 00:38:08,692
much more quickly, which is why you see

1044
00:38:08,692 --> 00:38:10,932
so many young people in this C and

1045
00:38:11,012 --> 00:38:11,830
Na programs,

1046
00:38:12,684 --> 00:38:14,357
and not as many in Aa.

1047
00:38:14,755 --> 00:38:15,153
And

1048
00:38:15,631 --> 00:38:16,848
I I think

1049
00:38:17,224 --> 00:38:19,869
for my observation that seems to be Seems

1050
00:38:19,869 --> 00:38:22,026
to be true. So the cocaine was taking

1051
00:38:22,026 --> 00:38:23,144
you down pretty quickly.

1052
00:38:23,624 --> 00:38:25,461
It wasn't and here in Paris,

1053
00:38:26,739 --> 00:38:29,295
it Although there there is n a, especially

1054
00:38:29,454 --> 00:38:31,780
French n, and there is Ta,

1055
00:38:32,312 --> 00:38:34,400
but the Ada is is really

1056
00:38:34,788 --> 00:38:37,248
the epi epicenter of recovery here. So... And

1057
00:38:37,248 --> 00:38:39,866
it's almost all mixed, you know, because of

1058
00:38:39,866 --> 00:38:40,898
a certain generation,

1059
00:38:41,612 --> 00:38:43,059
most a time drugs are a part of

1060
00:38:43,059 --> 00:38:44,970
your story as well. You know. That's what

1061
00:38:44,970 --> 00:38:47,199
happened when you drank it did drugs. That's

1062
00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:48,792
what it was like for me too. It

1063
00:38:48,792 --> 00:38:50,797
was it was the same thing and early

1064
00:38:50,797 --> 00:38:52,569
on in the program. I've been sober

1065
00:38:53,261 --> 00:38:55,885
36 and a half years now, and early

1066
00:38:55,885 --> 00:38:56,759
on in the program.

1067
00:38:57,315 --> 00:38:59,065
I would say, my name is Howard and

1068
00:38:59,144 --> 00:38:59,803
I'm an

1069
00:39:00,114 --> 00:39:02,666
drug addict and alcoholic, and somewhere along the

1070
00:39:02,666 --> 00:39:04,341
way, in my first couple years, somebody said,

1071
00:39:04,501 --> 00:39:06,813
well, you know, when I came into aa,

1072
00:39:06,893 --> 00:39:08,728
it dragged all of my other addictions in

1073
00:39:08,728 --> 00:39:11,366
with me. So say that I'm an alcoholic

1074
00:39:11,366 --> 00:39:13,903
covers it all, but I understand people need

1075
00:39:13,903 --> 00:39:14,641
to say

1076
00:39:15,093 --> 00:39:16,996
addict and alcoholic, The and.

1077
00:39:17,963 --> 00:39:20,106
Well, I I couldn't agree more because

1078
00:39:21,534 --> 00:39:22,963
you know, as I as I always say,

1079
00:39:23,359 --> 00:39:25,026
I've never met 2 people who do this

1080
00:39:25,026 --> 00:39:25,899
program the same.

1081
00:39:26,786 --> 00:39:28,239
We all do it differently.

1082
00:39:28,770 --> 00:39:30,754
The 1 common point we have is usually

1083
00:39:30,754 --> 00:39:33,055
going to meetings. That's something everybody does.

1084
00:39:34,103 --> 00:39:35,614
And that's where I think the magic happens.

1085
00:39:35,773 --> 00:39:37,602
But everything else. I mean, I've known people

1086
00:39:37,602 --> 00:39:39,750
who never open the big book and people

1087
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:41,420
who read the big book every day. People

1088
00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:42,349
who do the steps

1089
00:39:43,186 --> 00:39:44,858
once a year and people have never done

1090
00:39:44,858 --> 00:39:46,472
the steps, you know, but

1091
00:39:47,007 --> 00:39:48,918
seems to me if you if you keep

1092
00:39:48,918 --> 00:39:49,793
going to meetings,

1093
00:39:50,764 --> 00:39:52,677
you will get it in a way that

1094
00:39:52,677 --> 00:39:55,090
works for you, and that... That's what my

1095
00:39:55,228 --> 00:39:56,742
situation was. But I agree with that I

1096
00:39:56,742 --> 00:39:57,242
think

1097
00:39:58,018 --> 00:40:00,258
alcoholic is almost just become a generic term.

1098
00:40:00,496 --> 00:40:02,877
Yeah. It has. For whatever this disease is.

1099
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:06,624
So you've talked about getting sober going to

1100
00:40:06,624 --> 00:40:09,021
your first Aa meeting, staying sober from that

1101
00:40:09,021 --> 00:40:11,259
point until today 39 years later,

1102
00:40:12,138 --> 00:40:14,909
what were the first days weeks months like

1103
00:40:15,028 --> 00:40:17,251
for you in aa a. And did you

1104
00:40:17,251 --> 00:40:20,744
ever consider not continuing at any point or

1105
00:40:20,744 --> 00:40:22,252
or were you getting more and more hook

1106
00:40:22,252 --> 00:40:23,204
the longer you stayed?

1107
00:40:24,094 --> 00:40:24,414
Well,

1108
00:40:25,135 --> 00:40:26,574
to get back to Rita,

1109
00:40:27,135 --> 00:40:29,934
Milwaukee, you know, we were romantically involved. And

1110
00:40:29,934 --> 00:40:32,175
so we got evolved before because I didn't

1111
00:40:32,175 --> 00:40:34,256
go to meeting the day after. It was

1112
00:40:34,256 --> 00:40:35,923
a couple of weeks after I met her.

1113
00:40:36,081 --> 00:40:38,304
U. I could say, you know, they say

1114
00:40:38,304 --> 00:40:40,843
no romantic entanglement means for year. I could

1115
00:40:40,843 --> 00:40:43,084
say that's true because we were involved before.

1116
00:40:43,481 --> 00:40:45,867
Yeah. I would do a... So there was

1117
00:40:45,867 --> 00:40:48,332
that, and that would that was keeping me

1118
00:40:48,332 --> 00:40:50,797
too, you know, because that was it's enough.

1119
00:40:51,369 --> 00:40:52,885
It's it's enough, and

1120
00:40:53,843 --> 00:40:55,519
I don't know why it was easy for

1121
00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:57,515
me, Howard. I don't know why my desire

1122
00:40:57,515 --> 00:40:59,111
to drink left me, you know?

1123
00:40:59,923 --> 00:41:02,153
I drank every day, and I didn't think

1124
00:41:02,233 --> 00:41:04,782
I was alcohol. Mh. I didn't think cocaine

1125
00:41:04,782 --> 00:41:05,578
was a hard drug.

1126
00:41:06,215 --> 00:41:07,808
Moe was the word we used to use

1127
00:41:07,808 --> 00:41:09,971
in New York. That's how out that I

1128
00:41:09,971 --> 00:41:12,357
was. It just left me that desire. You

1129
00:41:12,357 --> 00:41:13,709
know, Thank god. And

1130
00:41:14,424 --> 00:41:16,253
I'll tell you. It certainly hasn't been all

1131
00:41:16,253 --> 00:41:18,264
the way from my other defects of character

1132
00:41:18,654 --> 00:41:19,154
shortcomings.

1133
00:41:19,771 --> 00:41:21,924
No. I get that. I get that. 1

1134
00:41:21,924 --> 00:41:23,041
1 of the 1 of the things I'm

1135
00:41:23,201 --> 00:41:24,259
I'm curious about

1136
00:41:24,636 --> 00:41:27,428
16, you're standing bedside by your dad or

1137
00:41:27,428 --> 00:41:28,305
you're in the same house.

1138
00:41:29,277 --> 00:41:32,070
And you're knee down and asking God for

1139
00:41:32,070 --> 00:41:34,702
something that he didn't deliver at that point

1140
00:41:34,702 --> 00:41:35,715
for you. What

1141
00:41:36,234 --> 00:41:38,391
occurred for you during your first number of

1142
00:41:38,391 --> 00:41:42,067
months within a to establish a spiritual connection,

1143
00:41:42,227 --> 00:41:43,926
or did you not have 1 immediately?

1144
00:41:45,118 --> 00:41:45,835
I think

1145
00:41:46,872 --> 00:41:47,988
I was on a bit of a pink

1146
00:41:47,988 --> 00:41:49,662
cloud. Mh. First of all,

1147
00:41:50,460 --> 00:41:51,996
I started feeling better

1148
00:41:52,373 --> 00:41:52,873
physically.

1149
00:41:53,822 --> 00:41:55,731
Right away, had more energy.

1150
00:41:57,561 --> 00:41:59,254
My reader was a

1151
00:41:59,867 --> 00:42:00,606
a personal

1152
00:42:01,060 --> 00:42:01,776
trainer. Mh.

1153
00:42:02,348 --> 00:42:04,174
So I was I was going to the

1154
00:42:04,174 --> 00:42:06,636
gym and staying in shape and so that

1155
00:42:06,636 --> 00:42:07,510
changed right away.

1156
00:42:08,304 --> 00:42:10,052
What was my connection with a higher power

1157
00:42:10,052 --> 00:42:11,505
well? I think I just

1158
00:42:11,974 --> 00:42:13,911
kinda took it on faith. I wasn't

1159
00:42:14,449 --> 00:42:16,923
for very short time, I went back to

1160
00:42:16,923 --> 00:42:19,318
the church of my child, which was that

1161
00:42:19,318 --> 00:42:22,117
pis church. Mh. And went in there and

1162
00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:23,331
I thought I was gonna

1163
00:42:24,257 --> 00:42:26,001
reconnect that way, but I didn't feel it.

1164
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:26,556
Mh.

1165
00:42:28,554 --> 00:42:30,308
I just felt the power, I guess, in

1166
00:42:30,308 --> 00:42:32,882
the rooms. Yeah. You know, that was really

1167
00:42:33,418 --> 00:42:35,492
my higher power at that point. So you

1168
00:42:35,492 --> 00:42:38,297
weren't resistant to the idea of God. As

1169
00:42:38,297 --> 00:42:40,359
a result of what you had experienced earlier

1170
00:42:40,359 --> 00:42:42,579
in life, were you open to it or

1171
00:42:42,579 --> 00:42:45,038
just not paying as much attention as some

1172
00:42:45,038 --> 00:42:45,514
people do.

1173
00:42:46,483 --> 00:42:48,318
I don't think I was threatened by. U.

1174
00:42:48,557 --> 00:42:51,428
Some people they're very threatened by that God

1175
00:42:51,428 --> 00:42:53,922
aspect of Aa and the religious that, but

1176
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:55,757
I just always thought

1177
00:42:56,465 --> 00:42:58,050
you could take what you want and leave

1178
00:42:58,050 --> 00:42:59,477
the rest as long as you didn't pick

1179
00:42:59,477 --> 00:43:00,666
up a drink a day at a time,

1180
00:43:00,825 --> 00:43:02,728
You know? So I didn't feel threatened by

1181
00:43:02,728 --> 00:43:04,752
it. I had never had a really bad

1182
00:43:04,889 --> 00:43:07,279
religious upbringing as some people have,

1183
00:43:08,235 --> 00:43:10,147
and I... I'm in New York, you know,

1184
00:43:11,196 --> 00:43:12,862
that runs the whole the gamut, you know,

1185
00:43:12,941 --> 00:43:13,679
from people

1186
00:43:14,210 --> 00:43:16,114
pure Aps to people who will go back

1187
00:43:16,114 --> 00:43:16,907
to church. Mh.

1188
00:43:18,112 --> 00:43:20,972
So I Never felt threatened by the God

1189
00:43:21,369 --> 00:43:22,957
issue in a. I still don't. You know,

1190
00:43:23,116 --> 00:43:24,704
And I say, I shove... If I had

1191
00:43:24,704 --> 00:43:25,499
a faith meter,

1192
00:43:26,626 --> 00:43:28,613
which shows how strong my faith is. When

1193
00:43:28,613 --> 00:43:30,839
things are going my way. My faith meter

1194
00:43:30,839 --> 00:43:31,872
is very strong.

1195
00:43:33,065 --> 00:43:35,052
When life does not give me what I

1196
00:43:35,052 --> 00:43:37,698
want, my faith meter goes down very... Yeah.

1197
00:43:37,938 --> 00:43:40,012
Yeah. I I noticed something similar when I

1198
00:43:40,012 --> 00:43:42,167
was... And since I've been sober over the

1199
00:43:42,167 --> 00:43:43,019
years that

1200
00:43:44,335 --> 00:43:46,966
my feeling in beginning was everything that was

1201
00:43:46,966 --> 00:43:48,720
going right in my life was god working

1202
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,032
in my life. Everything that went wrong with

1203
00:43:51,032 --> 00:43:53,515
something else. Like god wasn't involved in any

1204
00:43:53,515 --> 00:43:55,584
of that, but I've since come to learn

1205
00:43:55,584 --> 00:43:57,414
that he's involved in the good and the

1206
00:43:57,414 --> 00:43:59,737
bad and everything else in between Did you

1207
00:43:59,737 --> 00:44:01,567
get a sponsor immediately when you first came

1208
00:44:01,567 --> 00:44:03,557
in, Elliott or tell me about your sponsor

1209
00:44:03,557 --> 00:44:06,762
and sponsorship? Yes. I did get a sponsor

1210
00:44:07,297 --> 00:44:09,462
in the first year I was went... When

1211
00:44:09,541 --> 00:44:11,296
I I went back to New York to

1212
00:44:11,296 --> 00:44:13,528
get sober. Mh. Really because I was living

1213
00:44:13,528 --> 00:44:15,464
there and someone in Milwaukee

1214
00:44:15,841 --> 00:44:17,516
sent to me. We've had you New Yorkers

1215
00:44:17,516 --> 00:44:17,675
here.

1216
00:44:18,326 --> 00:44:20,708
You all seem to have careers and therapists.

1217
00:44:21,105 --> 00:44:23,170
And she you said out here, we have

1218
00:44:23,170 --> 00:44:24,202
jobs and sponsors.

1219
00:44:24,996 --> 00:44:25,496
So

1220
00:44:26,362 --> 00:44:28,987
I went back to New York, and I

1221
00:44:28,987 --> 00:44:30,260
did get a sponsor. I was at a

1222
00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:31,772
meeting right next to where I live.

1223
00:44:33,299 --> 00:44:34,897
And this guy was speaking and he was

1224
00:44:34,897 --> 00:44:37,534
a musician. Piano player, and he was talking

1225
00:44:37,534 --> 00:44:39,611
about doing cocaine and he was talking about

1226
00:44:39,611 --> 00:44:40,945
group rupees and he was

1227
00:44:41,463 --> 00:44:44,097
the same life lifestyle. I said, oh, fantastic

1228
00:44:44,097 --> 00:44:45,715
and I asked him to be my sponsor

1229
00:44:45,933 --> 00:44:48,008
turned out. He was a classical pianist.

1230
00:44:49,046 --> 00:44:50,970
You know, I He was at a rocker

1231
00:44:50,970 --> 00:44:53,195
at all. Boy. And we're still in touch

1232
00:44:53,195 --> 00:44:55,976
to this day. I do the the steps

1233
00:44:55,976 --> 00:44:56,532
with him.

1234
00:44:57,342 --> 00:44:59,487
He was a very la fair kind sponsor,

1235
00:44:59,567 --> 00:45:01,156
which is what I needed. You know, I

1236
00:45:01,156 --> 00:45:02,745
didn't need someone telling me you gotta do

1237
00:45:02,745 --> 00:45:04,334
this. You gotta do that. I don't work

1238
00:45:04,334 --> 00:45:05,447
well authority. Yeah.

1239
00:45:06,258 --> 00:45:07,854
He will he was just right for me.

1240
00:45:08,413 --> 00:45:11,765
Rita and I got married. Mh. We... And

1241
00:45:11,765 --> 00:45:12,744
we had a long distance

1242
00:45:13,201 --> 00:45:14,966
relationship first, when she was in Mobile milwaukee

1243
00:45:14,966 --> 00:45:16,315
cows was in New York. We couldn't figure

1244
00:45:16,315 --> 00:45:18,776
out why our higher power was keeping us

1245
00:45:18,776 --> 00:45:20,126
apart until we got together,

1246
00:45:20,998 --> 00:45:22,110
and it became obvious.

1247
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:24,755
2 years. The marriage was over.

1248
00:45:25,394 --> 00:45:27,070
And I had 5 years of sobriety at

1249
00:45:27,070 --> 00:45:28,747
that time and a good friend of mine,

1250
00:45:29,067 --> 00:45:31,382
another musician in the program said, well, what

1251
00:45:31,382 --> 00:45:32,912
do you wanna do now? Because you can

1252
00:45:32,912 --> 00:45:34,186
do things. And I said,

1253
00:45:35,221 --> 00:45:36,574
I really wanna move to Paris.

1254
00:45:37,131 --> 00:45:38,485
And he said, well I think I know

1255
00:45:38,485 --> 00:45:40,077
someone I was an apartment there, but,

1256
00:45:40,729 --> 00:45:42,877
And it was just magical, like Boom boom

1257
00:45:42,877 --> 00:45:44,946
boom within 2 weeks, I was putting my

1258
00:45:44,946 --> 00:45:46,776
key in the door of an apartment that

1259
00:45:46,855 --> 00:45:48,685
I sub for 6 months in paris.

1260
00:45:49,815 --> 00:45:51,974
So I moved to Paris and I I

1261
00:45:51,974 --> 00:45:53,655
pretty quickly got a sponsor there,

1262
00:45:54,295 --> 00:45:55,974
and he was a guy named Ted. Mh.

1263
00:45:56,135 --> 00:45:56,855
He was Canadian.

1264
00:45:57,509 --> 00:46:00,694
He passed away with 50 some years of

1265
00:46:00,694 --> 00:46:01,911
sobriety. He was

1266
00:46:02,367 --> 00:46:02,867
really

1267
00:46:03,322 --> 00:46:05,314
his sponsor guy named zebra.

1268
00:46:06,605 --> 00:46:09,805
Had taken epi to his first Oxford group

1269
00:46:09,805 --> 00:46:10,945
meeting. So

1270
00:46:11,405 --> 00:46:14,459
Was really connected to the pioneers there. And

1271
00:46:14,619 --> 00:46:16,137
Ted was a funny guy, and

1272
00:46:17,176 --> 00:46:18,556
I liked him. He was

1273
00:46:18,934 --> 00:46:19,174
smart,

1274
00:46:19,973 --> 00:46:20,473
sophisticated,

1275
00:46:20,853 --> 00:46:22,051
but he always used to give me the

1276
00:46:22,051 --> 00:46:24,542
same advice, which was Elliott don't fuck it

1277
00:46:24,542 --> 00:46:27,653
up. If that was his basic sponsor. Ship

1278
00:46:27,653 --> 00:46:28,691
mantra to me.

1279
00:46:29,489 --> 00:46:30,706
He passed away

1280
00:46:31,179 --> 00:46:32,851
10 years ago or so, and

1281
00:46:33,728 --> 00:46:36,118
he had dementia to hardly recognize recognized me

1282
00:46:36,118 --> 00:46:36,596
at the end.

1283
00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:39,782
In Switzerland I used to go visit him.

1284
00:46:39,942 --> 00:46:41,784
Mh. And now I have a good friend,

1285
00:46:42,498 --> 00:46:45,276
named Ed, also Canadian who lives in London,

1286
00:46:45,435 --> 00:46:47,657
and we almost do this c sponsor thing

1287
00:46:47,657 --> 00:46:49,086
with each other. And I don't know if,

1288
00:46:49,498 --> 00:46:51,325
If that's kosher or not, but it seems

1289
00:46:51,325 --> 00:46:53,549
to be working for us. Absolutely. When we

1290
00:46:53,549 --> 00:46:55,932
get close enough to our sponsors that it

1291
00:46:55,932 --> 00:46:57,918
becomes a c sponsoring situation, That's how it

1292
00:46:57,918 --> 00:46:58,871
is with my sponsor.

1293
00:46:59,284 --> 00:47:01,841
I've had the same sponsor from my entire

1294
00:47:01,841 --> 00:47:04,398
length of my sobriety and it's meant a

1295
00:47:04,398 --> 00:47:06,396
lot. He's never... And he hasn't lived in

1296
00:47:06,476 --> 00:47:06,875
Houston,

1297
00:47:07,529 --> 00:47:09,447
in the last 30 years, and he's moved

1298
00:47:09,447 --> 00:47:12,164
all over the country different places. But he's

1299
00:47:12,164 --> 00:47:14,482
always either on a plane or in the

1300
00:47:14,482 --> 00:47:16,080
hotel room, and I probably talked to him

1301
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,168
more often than who sponsors are right there

1302
00:47:18,168 --> 00:47:20,555
in town. The sponsorship is so important and

1303
00:47:20,555 --> 00:47:21,055
that

1304
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:23,340
relationship building that I never really knew how

1305
00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:25,090
to do when I was younger, really got

1306
00:47:25,090 --> 00:47:26,147
boosted by

1307
00:47:26,458 --> 00:47:28,292
having a good sponsor? Yeah. And how about

1308
00:47:28,292 --> 00:47:30,764
you sponsoring other men? What what's your experience

1309
00:47:30,764 --> 00:47:32,858
been there? I have the sponsored

1310
00:47:33,634 --> 00:47:34,590
quite a few. Mh.

1311
00:47:35,324 --> 00:47:37,160
Honestly, I I don't think I'm a very

1312
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:37,878
good sponsor.

1313
00:47:38,437 --> 00:47:38,677
Why?

1314
00:47:39,874 --> 00:47:40,753
I don't know why.

1315
00:47:41,391 --> 00:47:43,626
Maybe I, I'm just too self absorbed.

1316
00:47:44,759 --> 00:47:46,510
But I do have a sp now,

1317
00:47:47,307 --> 00:47:48,660
a great guy named Led.

1318
00:47:49,217 --> 00:47:49,934
And he's a,

1319
00:47:51,128 --> 00:47:53,610
true blues man from the south side Chicago

1320
00:47:53,610 --> 00:47:54,244
who lives in

1321
00:47:55,197 --> 00:47:56,387
who who lives in Paris.

1322
00:47:57,339 --> 00:48:00,617
He's a very interesting story because A literally

1323
00:48:00,752 --> 00:48:03,556
saved his life. Because 2 years ago, he

1324
00:48:03,556 --> 00:48:05,950
had a heart attack in an Aa meeting.

1325
00:48:06,509 --> 00:48:06,748
Wow.

1326
00:48:07,547 --> 00:48:09,542
And he was surrounded by enough people who

1327
00:48:09,542 --> 00:48:11,414
knew what they were doing, who got ambulance

1328
00:48:11,472 --> 00:48:12,988
there and took care of them. Mh. And

1329
00:48:12,988 --> 00:48:14,344
if he had had that heart attack and

1330
00:48:14,344 --> 00:48:16,098
it anywhere else so he always likes to

1331
00:48:16,098 --> 00:48:18,651
say, hey, really say my way. So maybe

1332
00:48:18,731 --> 00:48:20,586
I'm being too hard on myself because Lid

1333
00:48:20,978 --> 00:48:21,613
my policy,

1334
00:48:22,089 --> 00:48:24,233
we've stayed together quite a long time.

1335
00:48:25,265 --> 00:48:27,646
I'm not a tough tough sponsor. I've had

1336
00:48:27,646 --> 00:48:29,410
a lot of people ask me to sponsor

1337
00:48:29,410 --> 00:48:31,501
them, and I say, okay. Call me. And

1338
00:48:31,877 --> 00:48:33,468
but I never say you gotta call me

1339
00:48:33,468 --> 00:48:35,378
every morning at 10:00 in the morning, and

1340
00:48:35,696 --> 00:48:37,288
you know, you gotta read the big book

1341
00:48:37,288 --> 00:48:37,788
and

1342
00:48:38,177 --> 00:48:39,682
because I think if people want it,

1343
00:48:40,554 --> 00:48:41,109
they get it.

1344
00:48:41,902 --> 00:48:42,774
And if they don't,

1345
00:48:43,646 --> 00:48:44,993
that's not much you can say.

1346
00:48:46,118 --> 00:48:48,181
So, my guess is that your a service

1347
00:48:48,181 --> 00:48:50,005
guy in other ways. Talk to me about

1348
00:48:50,005 --> 00:48:52,940
your involvement with your groups and A in

1349
00:48:52,940 --> 00:48:53,257
general.

1350
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:55,668
I've done done all kinds of service. I

1351
00:48:55,668 --> 00:48:57,346
mean, I've done the call... Everything from doing

1352
00:48:57,346 --> 00:48:59,184
the coffee to sharing meetings.

1353
00:49:00,862 --> 00:49:02,940
During Zoom, I started a meeting.

1354
00:49:03,754 --> 00:49:05,989
Which is still going on. It's called 1

1355
00:49:05,989 --> 00:49:07,207
minute at a time

1356
00:49:07,984 --> 00:49:10,777
because my theory is howard this may sound

1357
00:49:10,777 --> 00:49:13,420
cynical, but The longer the shares the less

1358
00:49:13,420 --> 00:49:16,840
the gratitude. Yeah. So I started this meeting

1359
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,068
1 minute at a time where the everyone

1360
00:49:19,068 --> 00:49:20,603
shares for 1 minute

1361
00:49:20,913 --> 00:49:23,293
That's all oh, wow. The opening share is

1362
00:49:23,293 --> 00:49:25,989
just 5 minutes. And and it's a it's

1363
00:49:25,989 --> 00:49:27,496
a play on words from a day of

1364
00:49:27,496 --> 00:49:28,607
time many every time.

1365
00:49:29,259 --> 00:49:31,515
And it's kept going now for years, and

1366
00:49:31,733 --> 00:49:33,830
we've had a couple of people got sober

1367
00:49:33,969 --> 00:49:37,002
during the the Covid pandemic for in that

1368
00:49:37,002 --> 00:49:37,401
meeting.

1369
00:49:38,453 --> 00:49:39,880
And we get a lot of old timers

1370
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,419
in this meeting. And you know, the meeting

1371
00:49:42,419 --> 00:49:45,195
over when everyone shares. We go through every

1372
00:49:45,195 --> 00:49:45,988
person, you know,

1373
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:48,151
So the meeting could be 20 minutes long

1374
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:49,583
If you've got 20 people in the room.

1375
00:49:50,300 --> 00:49:52,528
Exactly. Well, the the open the or 20

1376
00:49:52,528 --> 00:49:55,169
50 shares is 5 minutes. 25 minutes, but

1377
00:49:55,169 --> 00:49:57,157
it's wow. Sometimes it ends at 40 minutes,

1378
00:49:57,237 --> 00:49:58,589
sometimes it's over an hour.

1379
00:49:59,226 --> 00:49:59,623
And

1380
00:50:00,419 --> 00:50:01,869
you, I think I was just like in

1381
00:50:01,869 --> 00:50:03,707
a state of grace when I got this

1382
00:50:03,707 --> 00:50:05,465
concept, you know, I hope it goes to

1383
00:50:05,465 --> 00:50:07,463
other places. You know they say anything more

1384
00:50:07,463 --> 00:50:08,661
in a couple minutes as.

1385
00:50:09,061 --> 00:50:11,070
That's it. We also have tendency to go

1386
00:50:11,070 --> 00:50:12,896
to a lot of the on and on

1387
00:50:12,896 --> 00:50:14,405
and on meetings, and

1388
00:50:16,708 --> 00:50:19,012
that's entirely too much. So you've started meetings.

1389
00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:19,750
You've

1390
00:50:20,457 --> 00:50:22,366
you've you've been of service to your group.

1391
00:50:22,922 --> 00:50:24,831
1 of the things I've noticed being sober

1392
00:50:24,831 --> 00:50:26,979
a long time is that people see the

1393
00:50:26,979 --> 00:50:28,433
number of years and

1394
00:50:28,823 --> 00:50:31,048
they think that everything is easy as a

1395
00:50:31,048 --> 00:50:32,082
result and that,

1396
00:50:33,036 --> 00:50:34,864
he's sober for so long, he must not

1397
00:50:34,864 --> 00:50:37,427
have any problems and I always like to

1398
00:50:37,427 --> 00:50:39,740
debunk that by telling my truth and whatever

1399
00:50:39,740 --> 00:50:40,778
meetings I'm going to.

1400
00:50:41,416 --> 00:50:44,302
But sometimes it's difficult knowing that the number

1401
00:50:44,302 --> 00:50:46,367
of years gonna actually be a barrier to

1402
00:50:46,367 --> 00:50:47,797
some of the younger people and some of

1403
00:50:47,797 --> 00:50:50,816
the more newly sober that that they can

1404
00:50:50,816 --> 00:50:53,119
see somebody with 35 or 40 years sober

1405
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:54,804
and think There's no way in the world

1406
00:50:54,963 --> 00:50:56,713
I could ever get there. And plus that

1407
00:50:56,713 --> 00:50:58,384
guys got all those years. His life must

1408
00:50:58,384 --> 00:51:00,134
be perfect. What do you say to people

1409
00:51:00,134 --> 00:51:00,531
like that?

1410
00:51:01,421 --> 00:51:02,215
Well, I say,

1411
00:51:02,851 --> 00:51:04,997
you know, 39 years there's a lot of

1412
00:51:04,997 --> 00:51:07,246
sobriety, but it's just a lot of life

1413
00:51:07,382 --> 00:51:09,710
really. I'm a big believer that

1414
00:51:10,578 --> 00:51:12,810
sobriety and Aa is a bridge back to

1415
00:51:12,810 --> 00:51:13,608
life. Yeah.

1416
00:51:14,166 --> 00:51:16,079
I either read or someone told me,

1417
00:51:16,956 --> 00:51:19,704
you know you've really achieved perfect

1418
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:20,580
spirituality

1419
00:51:20,957 --> 00:51:23,666
when you are grateful for everything that happens

1420
00:51:23,666 --> 00:51:24,383
to you in life.

1421
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:27,172
The bad and the good. Now, I'm certainly

1422
00:51:27,172 --> 00:51:28,980
nowhere near that level, but

1423
00:51:29,659 --> 00:51:31,579
As you know, Howard our life has got

1424
00:51:31,579 --> 00:51:34,619
its own agenda, and I've, you know, I've

1425
00:51:34,619 --> 00:51:36,079
had great success

1426
00:51:36,632 --> 00:51:39,901
I've had terrible failures. I've had joy. I've

1427
00:51:39,901 --> 00:51:43,089
had depression. I've had fear and anxiety. I've

1428
00:51:43,089 --> 00:51:43,727
had courage.

1429
00:51:44,619 --> 00:51:46,153
All this part of the human

1430
00:51:47,006 --> 00:51:47,882
experience, you know.

1431
00:51:48,917 --> 00:51:50,748
I would look when I was first kid

1432
00:51:50,748 --> 00:51:52,673
in. If I saw someone with 30 years,

1433
00:51:52,911 --> 00:51:54,820
I just thought they were buddha, you know,

1434
00:51:55,377 --> 00:51:57,365
sitting on top of the mountain and and

1435
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:58,399
Yeah.

1436
00:51:59,035 --> 00:52:00,760
1 of the things I like to ask

1437
00:52:01,038 --> 00:52:04,539
if you elliott at 39 years sober, knowing

1438
00:52:04,539 --> 00:52:06,528
what you know now, could go back and

1439
00:52:06,528 --> 00:52:09,893
talk to an earlier version of yourself about

1440
00:52:10,284 --> 00:52:13,001
life or about getting or saying sober about

1441
00:52:13,001 --> 00:52:15,159
what to do next? Which Elliott would that

1442
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:17,557
be? How old would they be and what

1443
00:52:17,557 --> 00:52:19,315
would you be talking to them about?

1444
00:52:20,366 --> 00:52:21,876
I think I would like to talk to

1445
00:52:21,876 --> 00:52:24,657
the 16 year old elliott who was in

1446
00:52:24,657 --> 00:52:27,144
standing there, just lost his father

1447
00:52:27,695 --> 00:52:29,554
family going into free fall

1448
00:52:30,974 --> 00:52:31,875
and just,

1449
00:52:32,255 --> 00:52:34,755
you know, drowning in grief and just

1450
00:52:35,775 --> 00:52:36,574
tell them, you know,

1451
00:52:37,469 --> 00:52:38,609
this will best

1452
00:52:39,550 --> 00:52:42,190
everything in life passes. You will recover.

1453
00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:44,190
Have some patience,

1454
00:52:45,069 --> 00:52:45,550
you know,

1455
00:52:46,924 --> 00:52:48,201
just stay true to yourself.

1456
00:52:50,516 --> 00:52:52,432
Because I know I I had no patience

1457
00:52:52,432 --> 00:52:54,746
for anything back then. And when they used

1458
00:52:54,746 --> 00:52:57,313
to wish me a low recovery did everyone

1459
00:52:57,313 --> 00:52:59,146
ever say that deal you ensures. Well,

1460
00:53:00,342 --> 00:53:02,813
really pissed me off, you know. I wanted

1461
00:53:02,813 --> 00:53:04,824
to do these 12 steps in 12 days,

1462
00:53:04,985 --> 00:53:05,625
and, you know,

1463
00:53:06,824 --> 00:53:08,585
I always thought you got high after the

1464
00:53:08,585 --> 00:53:10,184
4 step in some way. That's why I

1465
00:53:10,184 --> 00:53:12,285
wanted to do that, so badly, but

1466
00:53:12,678 --> 00:53:15,536
Now I understand, you know, slow recovery. The

1467
00:53:15,536 --> 00:53:18,711
days of instant gratification rover. And, you know,

1468
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:20,005
as my sponsor

1469
00:53:20,473 --> 00:53:21,983
Ted, you said tell me, don't fuck it

1470
00:53:21,983 --> 00:53:23,255
up. And 1 of the ways you can

1471
00:53:23,255 --> 00:53:25,186
certainly do that is by

1472
00:53:25,798 --> 00:53:26,752
moving too fast,

1473
00:53:27,309 --> 00:53:29,239
not sitting back and waiting for

1474
00:53:29,789 --> 00:53:31,387
kinda life to show you the way.

1475
00:53:32,346 --> 00:53:34,103
Yeah. It's a beautiful way to think about

1476
00:53:34,103 --> 00:53:34,843
it too

1477
00:53:35,302 --> 00:53:37,868
that God has an agenda somewhere that we

1478
00:53:37,868 --> 00:53:40,512
don't necessarily know about ours is just the

1479
00:53:40,726 --> 00:53:43,663
job of staying available for it and staying

1480
00:53:43,663 --> 00:53:45,427
open minded to it. And

1481
00:53:46,223 --> 00:53:49,191
you sound like your sobriety is a comfortable

1482
00:53:49,248 --> 00:53:52,114
place to be. I compare to, like being

1483
00:53:52,114 --> 00:53:54,592
on a ship Mh. And I'm the only

1484
00:53:54,592 --> 00:53:57,234
passenger, and this ship is on this

1485
00:53:57,845 --> 00:53:59,829
river sea. And sometimes you know,

1486
00:54:00,558 --> 00:54:02,703
the waves are crashing on over the side,

1487
00:54:02,861 --> 00:54:05,641
and sometimes it's calm, but I know this

1488
00:54:05,641 --> 00:54:07,547
ship is un sync. And as long as

1489
00:54:07,627 --> 00:54:09,215
I stay on that boat and I don't

1490
00:54:09,215 --> 00:54:11,625
get off it. I'll be okay. So if

1491
00:54:11,625 --> 00:54:13,224
you went up to the wheelhouse, you'd open

1492
00:54:13,224 --> 00:54:14,105
the door and there'd would be a bunch

1493
00:54:14,105 --> 00:54:15,625
of people from your meeting standing there.

1494
00:54:16,905 --> 00:54:18,664
I think I'd be a room to the

1495
00:54:18,664 --> 00:54:21,396
wheelhouse the door would be locked. They wouldn't

1496
00:54:21,396 --> 00:54:21,956
love me in.

1497
00:54:25,151 --> 00:54:26,291
Because I'm a passenger

1498
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:29,869
No. I'm not the the pilot. I'm not

1499
00:54:29,869 --> 00:54:30,505
the pilot.

1500
00:54:30,983 --> 00:54:33,451
You know, I I never would have imagined.

1501
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:36,497
When I moved here to Paris,

1502
00:54:37,057 --> 00:54:39,534
5 years of sobriety. Mh. I met a

1503
00:54:39,534 --> 00:54:40,593
woman who I

1504
00:54:41,451 --> 00:54:43,704
met on the road shares before we had

1505
00:54:43,704 --> 00:54:45,944
no contact in those 6 years. Mh.

1506
00:54:46,744 --> 00:54:49,545
We got married. We're still together. That's great.

1507
00:54:51,148 --> 00:54:51,940
We have a son,

1508
00:54:52,574 --> 00:54:54,476
mh who was 33.

1509
00:54:54,873 --> 00:54:57,117
Wow. Who's gonna gonna have

1510
00:54:57,663 --> 00:55:00,843
10 years of sobriety. So, you know, when

1511
00:55:00,843 --> 00:55:03,308
people you see people with a drinking problem

1512
00:55:03,308 --> 00:55:03,808
and

1513
00:55:04,342 --> 00:55:06,011
you tell them we'll come to, hey, you'll

1514
00:55:06,011 --> 00:55:08,883
get better. But if they don't, I'm not

1515
00:55:08,883 --> 00:55:10,017
gonna lie there. But

1516
00:55:10,389 --> 00:55:13,266
when you have, when you see that fatal

1517
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:13,876
disease,

1518
00:55:14,684 --> 00:55:16,673
in the person you care about more than

1519
00:55:16,673 --> 00:55:19,538
anyone else in this world, almost. Yeah. And

1520
00:55:19,538 --> 00:55:20,891
you have to tell him if you could

1521
00:55:20,891 --> 00:55:22,881
go to Aa, you'll get better.

1522
00:55:24,407 --> 00:55:26,707
That is really the test of how much

1523
00:55:26,707 --> 00:55:28,690
you believe in this program. Do you really

1524
00:55:28,690 --> 00:55:29,325
believe it works.

1525
00:55:30,197 --> 00:55:32,046
And I think that was the point where

1526
00:55:32,514 --> 00:55:33,951
I really did believe it works.

1527
00:55:34,669 --> 00:55:36,186
Yeah. And you have to follow your own

1528
00:55:36,186 --> 00:55:38,501
path, makes me wonder or when I know

1529
00:55:38,501 --> 00:55:40,177
guy, and I know so many people. I'm

1530
00:55:40,177 --> 00:55:42,507
sure you do who are sober a really

1531
00:55:42,507 --> 00:55:45,460
long time who have children who have time

1532
00:55:45,460 --> 00:55:47,636
and sobriety, but who were obviously

1533
00:55:48,014 --> 00:55:50,663
alcoholic out there at 1 point. To wanna

1534
00:55:50,663 --> 00:55:53,616
tell them exactly what to expect when I

1535
00:55:53,616 --> 00:55:55,372
don't know what's next in their life, and

1536
00:55:55,372 --> 00:55:57,367
they've got to have their own relationship with

1537
00:55:57,367 --> 00:55:58,165
a higher power.

1538
00:55:58,657 --> 00:56:00,663
But what I hear people say is that

1539
00:56:01,034 --> 00:56:01,534
sometimes

1540
00:56:02,223 --> 00:56:05,234
the the kids of recovering alcoholic get involved

1541
00:56:05,234 --> 00:56:05,684
with

1542
00:56:06,284 --> 00:56:09,021
alcohol to prove that they are not like

1543
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,037
the parent who needed aa to stay sober.

1544
00:56:12,996 --> 00:56:13,496
And

1545
00:56:15,168 --> 00:56:17,323
it it's it's really difficult. I think for

1546
00:56:17,323 --> 00:56:19,318
people, especially nowadays with some of the drugs

1547
00:56:19,318 --> 00:56:20,276
that are going around,

1548
00:56:21,793 --> 00:56:22,990
to deal with it as well.

1549
00:56:23,803 --> 00:56:24,919
What's been your experience?

1550
00:56:25,796 --> 00:56:27,710
I brought my son to some meetings when

1551
00:56:27,710 --> 00:56:29,464
he was quite little because I would be

1552
00:56:29,464 --> 00:56:31,218
babysitting, and I wanna go to a meeting,

1553
00:56:31,378 --> 00:56:33,461
my wife and be work or something Yeah.

1554
00:56:33,859 --> 00:56:35,924
He would come to those media things, and

1555
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,228
I once that asked him after he got.

1556
00:56:38,387 --> 00:56:39,658
So I said, what did you think of

1557
00:56:39,658 --> 00:56:40,055
aa?

1558
00:56:41,182 --> 00:56:42,694
And those when he came in there and

1559
00:56:42,694 --> 00:56:44,684
he said, well, he said, I thought there

1560
00:56:44,684 --> 00:56:46,514
was an a swat team.

1561
00:56:47,150 --> 00:56:48,583
And if you picked up a drink that

1562
00:56:48,583 --> 00:56:51,487
were gonna burst through the windows in black

1563
00:56:51,626 --> 00:56:53,962
dressed in black like ninja fighters.

1564
00:56:56,335 --> 00:56:58,831
But when I told him he should

1565
00:56:59,224 --> 00:57:00,900
You know, first, I gave him all the

1566
00:57:00,900 --> 00:57:03,534
classic suggestions, I said, well, see if you

1567
00:57:03,534 --> 00:57:05,210
can just drink beer and wine, you know,

1568
00:57:05,849 --> 00:57:08,256
try not to drink for 90 days. Set

1569
00:57:08,256 --> 00:57:09,371
limit on and how much you're gonna see

1570
00:57:09,371 --> 00:57:11,201
how that works out, and, of course, none

1571
00:57:11,201 --> 00:57:11,997
of that worked out.

1572
00:57:12,793 --> 00:57:14,225
Because the last thing I wanted to do,

1573
00:57:14,385 --> 00:57:15,203
Howard was

1574
00:57:15,833 --> 00:57:18,063
make it seem like this is parental punishment,

1575
00:57:18,302 --> 00:57:20,373
you know. Oh, yeah. Didn't want it to

1576
00:57:20,373 --> 00:57:22,762
go... Go down that road. So all I

1577
00:57:22,762 --> 00:57:24,929
did when he finally came in just he

1578
00:57:24,929 --> 00:57:27,244
had had a bad night, a really bad

1579
00:57:27,244 --> 00:57:29,079
night, and he came in just down. We

1580
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:31,075
lived in the same building here. Mh.

1581
00:57:31,554 --> 00:57:33,411
And he came up to see me and

1582
00:57:34,204 --> 00:57:36,202
I said, well, first, you should get some

1583
00:57:36,202 --> 00:57:38,439
sleep. And then tomorrow, you should go to

1584
00:57:38,439 --> 00:57:40,676
this meeting. That would be my suggestion. Mh.

1585
00:57:40,916 --> 00:57:42,607
And I'm not gonna go with you. You

1586
00:57:42,607 --> 00:57:44,515
should go to this meeting, and he did.

1587
00:57:44,992 --> 00:57:46,741
And he got a sponsor at the first

1588
00:57:46,741 --> 00:57:48,093
meeting still his sponsor.

1589
00:57:48,570 --> 00:57:50,295
And sometimes I think he has a better

1590
00:57:50,414 --> 00:57:51,924
program than me. You know what they say

1591
00:57:51,924 --> 00:57:53,934
is the second mouse who gets the cheese

1592
00:57:57,010 --> 00:57:59,411
in that true. That's wonderful. And in fact,

1593
00:57:59,889 --> 00:58:01,718
I guess if you were counting the blessings

1594
00:58:01,718 --> 00:58:03,786
of sobriety, he might be on the top

1595
00:58:03,786 --> 00:58:04,264
of that list.

1596
00:58:05,234 --> 00:58:06,911
Of course. Of course. Yeah.

1597
00:58:08,348 --> 00:58:10,344
Everything I have. I mean, I have a

1598
00:58:10,344 --> 00:58:13,378
pretty wonderful life here in Paris, and every

1599
00:58:13,378 --> 00:58:14,096
once a while,

1600
00:58:14,988 --> 00:58:17,453
I I realize it, You know? It's nice

1601
00:58:17,453 --> 00:58:19,202
to take a minute to, say, thank you,

1602
00:58:19,361 --> 00:58:22,008
God at those moments when we have those

1603
00:58:22,144 --> 00:58:22,383
realizations.

1604
00:58:23,114 --> 00:58:24,954
I have them as well, but I never

1605
00:58:24,954 --> 00:58:26,635
know when they're going to occur. 1 thing

1606
00:58:26,795 --> 00:58:27,914
I know for sure is that if I

1607
00:58:27,914 --> 00:58:28,875
go to an Aa meeting,

1608
00:58:29,515 --> 00:58:31,929
I will absolutely feel better coming out been

1609
00:58:31,929 --> 00:58:33,847
going in no matter how I'm feeling that

1610
00:58:33,847 --> 00:58:36,085
day. You know, we all say that, and

1611
00:58:36,085 --> 00:58:38,722
it's so true. It's so true. And it's

1612
00:58:38,722 --> 00:58:40,241
nice to talk to other members of the

1613
00:58:40,241 --> 00:58:42,410
choir so to speak, but they you,

1614
00:58:43,125 --> 00:58:44,954
you're an amazing man. I'm so glad that

1615
00:58:45,033 --> 00:58:47,418
I had the opportunity to get to talk

1616
00:58:47,418 --> 00:58:49,405
with you today and hear your story. We

1617
00:58:49,405 --> 00:58:51,887
just met and yet, I feel like, and

1618
00:58:51,887 --> 00:58:54,120
we've been brothers forever because I think there's

1619
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,433
something... There's a common thread that runs through

1620
00:58:56,433 --> 00:58:58,986
a a that links us all together in

1621
00:58:58,986 --> 00:59:00,921
a way a spiritual way that

1622
00:59:01,474 --> 00:59:03,492
nothing else does, and

1623
00:59:03,951 --> 00:59:05,649
I appreciate you sharing

1624
00:59:06,027 --> 00:59:08,759
and trusting me with your story because I

1625
00:59:08,759 --> 00:59:11,556
know sometimes the questions aren't easy, and it's

1626
00:59:11,556 --> 00:59:13,074
a little bit different than just getting up

1627
00:59:13,074 --> 00:59:14,032
and telling your story.

1628
00:59:14,672 --> 00:59:16,350
You sound like you work a great program.

1629
00:59:17,082 --> 00:59:17,900
I think

1630
00:59:18,672 --> 00:59:20,763
after all my years as a sobriety.

1631
00:59:21,138 --> 00:59:21,615
Mh.

1632
00:59:22,012 --> 00:59:24,239
I don't think it hardly matters what we

1633
00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:24,478
say.

1634
00:59:25,528 --> 00:59:26,406
In these meetings.

1635
00:59:27,603 --> 00:59:29,918
I think we're all connecting on a spiritual

1636
00:59:29,918 --> 00:59:31,455
level that is

1637
00:59:32,152 --> 00:59:33,211
similar to

1638
00:59:33,604 --> 00:59:34,958
I like to compare it to when a

1639
00:59:34,958 --> 00:59:37,826
dog watches television. Yeah. I noticed that he

1640
00:59:37,826 --> 00:59:39,658
knows something going on there.

1641
00:59:40,614 --> 00:59:42,787
That's the same way. I feel that I

1642
00:59:43,019 --> 00:59:45,332
I know something's going on here. I'm not

1643
00:59:45,332 --> 00:59:48,203
sure if I understand at all. Yeah. It's

1644
00:59:48,203 --> 00:59:48,703
fascinating

1645
00:59:49,081 --> 00:59:49,400
and

1646
00:59:50,118 --> 00:59:51,952
I'm in for the ride. Yeah. I am

1647
00:59:51,952 --> 00:59:52,804
too. And

1648
00:59:53,241 --> 00:59:55,938
I wanna thank you again for doing this

1649
00:59:55,938 --> 00:59:57,389
interview today, Elliot, and

1650
00:59:58,317 --> 00:59:59,745
you're a heck of a guy, and I'm

1651
00:59:59,745 --> 01:00:00,617
glad I know you now.

1652
01:00:01,347 --> 01:00:02,461
Thank you, Howard, and

1653
01:00:03,733 --> 01:00:06,380
kudos to you too for doing these wonderful.

1654
01:00:06,993 --> 01:00:07,391
These are.

1655
01:00:08,266 --> 01:00:09,856
This is the future. You know, look how

1656
01:00:10,015 --> 01:00:10,515
Zoom

1657
01:00:11,144 --> 01:00:13,062
got us through the Covid pandemic with.

1658
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:16,976
And now these podcasts such as you're doing

1659
01:00:16,976 --> 01:00:17,716
are wonderful,

1660
01:00:18,588 --> 01:00:20,256
And I think the next thing that's gonna

1661
01:00:20,256 --> 01:00:22,559
happen is artificial intelligence where you're gonna be

1662
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:23,750
able to wake up each morning,

1663
01:00:24,623 --> 01:00:26,212
punch something in on a computer and it's

1664
01:00:26,212 --> 01:00:28,051
gonna... Gonna tell you what your life would

1665
01:00:28,051 --> 01:00:29,638
have been like if you didn't get so.

1666
01:00:30,193 --> 01:00:32,041
Probably we'll just show you a gravestone.

1667
01:00:33,445 --> 01:00:33,579
It's

1668
01:00:34,577 --> 01:00:36,810
that's a great idea for a new app

1669
01:00:36,810 --> 01:00:37,687
there, Elliott.

1670
01:00:38,166 --> 01:00:40,000
There we go. Where you would've have been

1671
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,393
without Aa and sobriety. Yeah. And what been

1672
01:00:42,393 --> 01:00:43,191
without Aa. Yeah.

1673
01:00:43,925 --> 01:00:46,405
Well, thanks again. Thank you, Howard, my friend.

1674
01:00:46,804 --> 01:00:48,644
See you down the road. Thank you. God

1675
01:00:48,644 --> 01:00:49,925
bless. Bye bye. Bye bye.

1676
01:00:51,378 --> 01:00:53,292
Well my friends, that's it for today's episode

1677
01:00:53,292 --> 01:00:55,764
of Aa recovery interviews. I want to thank

1678
01:00:55,764 --> 01:00:57,757
my guest Elliott at m for sharing his

1679
01:00:57,757 --> 01:00:59,831
story, and thank you for tuning in.

1680
01:01:00,483 --> 01:01:02,549
If you've enjoyed the interviews in this podcast

1681
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:04,616
series, will you please share it with others?

1682
01:01:05,172 --> 01:01:06,921
This show is another helping hand of Aa,

1683
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,146
we can all extend to alcoholic everywhere.

1684
01:01:09,956 --> 01:01:11,703
If you want to contact me directly with

1685
01:01:11,703 --> 01:01:13,530
any comments, questions or suggestions,

1686
01:01:14,086 --> 01:01:17,025
simply email howard at a recovery interviews dot

1687
01:01:17,025 --> 01:01:17,342
com.

1688
01:01:18,075 --> 01:01:19,515
Please also take a minute to leave a

1689
01:01:19,515 --> 01:01:21,695
rating and review on Apple Podcasts

1690
01:01:21,994 --> 01:01:24,795
And take note, Aa recovery interviews can now

1691
01:01:24,795 --> 01:01:26,715
be found on the Youtube music app.

1692
01:01:27,529 --> 01:01:29,606
By the way, this podcast strictly adhere to

1693
01:01:29,686 --> 01:01:32,803
Aes 12 traditions, and all general service office

1694
01:01:32,803 --> 01:01:35,200
guidelines for Safeguard and Anonymity online.

1695
01:01:35,854 --> 01:01:37,529
I pay all production costs.

1696
01:01:38,168 --> 01:01:40,561
Aa recovery interviews and my guests do not

1697
01:01:40,561 --> 01:01:42,715
speak for or represent Aa at large.

1698
01:01:43,366 --> 01:01:45,351
This podcast is simply my way of giving

1699
01:01:45,351 --> 01:01:47,415
back to Aa that which has been so

1700
01:01:47,415 --> 01:01:48,526
freely given to me.

1701
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,801
The next episode of A cover interviews on

1702
01:01:51,801 --> 01:01:54,034
the way, so keep coming back. It'll be

1703
01:01:54,034 --> 01:01:54,672
here soon.